You can rationalize it all you want, but taking something that's not yours is stealing! - Victor Ryden

You're not really "taking" something, though - at least not until ISPs all move toward metered access. - David Worrell

If TCP/IP traffic flows from someone's "property" to you, that's taking. - Victor Ryden

To steal something the owner must no longer possess it -- using open WiFi is more like sharing than stealing. The space being shared is public space, like a yard without a "no trespassing" sign. That yard is open to anyone until the owner of it says otherwise. Same with open WiFi, it's a sharable resource until the owner says otherwise, even if the owner is simply ignorant. Ignorance is not a valid excuse in the USA, it does not hold up in court. - xero

My last comment made me wonder if squatters rights apply to a WiFi connection... If I maintain it and use it for 7 years without being told to stop, do I then own it, even if I haven't paid for it? ;p - xero

If there is water flowing freely from your house into the street and someone drinks it, is that a crime? It's too easy to lock up your wireless. Leaving it open means you don't care if people use it. - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

Another thought: I believe spying on the WiFi owner's usage constitutes wire fraud now, but just borrowing bandwidth should be legal. It's only "stealing" if a "reasonable measure" was used to stop a person from using it. That's how stealing cable/satellite works, the "reasonable measure" is putting the connection way up on a telephone pole and/or the decoder cards. That and some clever claims in the usage contract. - xero

I don't understand your argument, I don't have a No Trespassing sign on my yard. it's assumed. If I park my car in my driveway and don't lock it, does that mean anyone is free to take it? - Victor Ryden

If I leave the door open to my apartment, and you come in, read my books, watch my tv, and use my phone (even though i have the unlimited plan), you're still trespassing. If you go and tell all your friends "Hey, Mark's apartment's open! And he's got Showtime!" you are inciting people to commit a crime. Both are misdemeanors. I didn't give you permission to invade my personal space, even if you didn't take anything. It's not yours to touch. - Mark Trapp

The argument is that I am sitting in MY house and I can access YOUR WiFi. Therefore, it's become public domain. - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

No Trespassing is not actually assumed, you have to explicitly state it. Though entry into the home is illegal, so is bypassing a gate or fence. State government gives you legal possession rights to your car via your title, if someone takes your car (no matter the how) and you don't have a title then you have no grounds to argue theft. - xero

From my house, I can get a telescope and watch people do naughty things without ever entering their dwelling. But it's still a crime. - Mark Trapp

If you, my neighbour, grow an apple tree and its branches spill over into my property, am I then stealing if I take the apples on my side? It's sort of the same thing. I am not entering your property, I am not breaching any security, you are sending your waves to me unprotected. Heck, my friend's mother had been using the neighbour's wireless instead of their own for months because Windows found it better that way. - Daniel Bruce

Rashsheen - so If you can then hack into any computers on their WiFi network, that's OK also? - Victor Ryden

"If you, my neighbour, grow an apple tree and its branches spill over into my property, am I then stealing if I take the apples on my side?" Yes, the tree's not yours. Why is this so difficult? Just because it's easy to do doesn't make it legal. - Mark Trapp

Trespassing laws summary: http://www.enotes.com/everyda... - xero

If my usage of your _open_ WiFi does not immediately impede your usage, and you have not said I can't use it, and have taken no reasonable measures to secure it, then I am not trespassing. - xero

I'd love to see you attempt that in court. This argument is silly. - Mark Trapp

They are actually specific cases for plant life. Any portion of the plant life that occupies your land is yours to do with as you please. So that argument doesn't really stand up in the trespassing metaphor. - xero

In the tree example, the "actual" apples are on your/public side. However, the WAP and resulting Internet access is not. You are going over the fence to access. - Victor Ryden

The tree example was actually /going to the other side/ to get the apples. That wouldn't work at all, since those apples do not belong to you. However, the apples on your side of the fence do belong to you. But like I said, there are laws specific to that so it doesn't hold up as well as general land use. You could consider your WiFi footprint an extension of your land. You incur the same type of costs to maintain as your land and have a similar ownership contract. - xero

Oops, tree example was not /going to the other side/. But comment valid if it were. As it stands, I already said it would actually be legal to take the apples on your side. - xero

@Victor this isn't about haking anything. If I buy a computer, come home, power it up. The wireless will probably connect to your wide open WiFi automagically. If I wasn't the geek I am, I might think the computer just came with internet. This is not stealing. If the apples from your tree fall on my property, they're mine. I am in no way impeding or modifying your internet usage, nor am I looking at your data. If you didn't want to share, you should have locked it up. - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

Cracking someone's WiFi encryption (no matter how weak) is considered by-passing reasonable security and therefore "trespassing". More specifically, I believe it's considered wire fraud in the US. - xero

This is a really important issue. I assume that most of us (FF'ers) are locked down tight with restricted MAC addresses, But what about most people who walk into Frys/Best Buy and buy a WiFi router. Their defaults wide-open and they don't know any different. What if "you" are just not browsing, but are downloading copyrighted music/software and the WiFi owner gets sued? - Victor Ryden

Mark, actually, anything that crosses over onto your property is considered yours. Which is why you can trim tree branches, etc. It's polite to ask, but legally, your property is being encroached and it's your stuff. So Daniels is right. The apples are his. - Cyndy

As stated before, ignorance is not a valid defense in the USA. That's like running someone over with a car and claiming you didn't know it would kill them. You can't prove ignorance. Sometimes courts are lenient with it, but it is a case-by-case basis. To actually win the example lawsuit, the complainant must actually prove (by possession or witness) that the owner stole the music/software. Cases have already been dismissed on those grounds. - xero

As far as I know, you can't really buy a wireless router these days without it running your through a wizard that makes you setup encryption. Most people that don't know much about wireless know that security is possible. They need to educate themselves or let someone else do it. - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

If your not securing your network, and you live in a residential neighborhood, or complex or anywhere that people live within 100 yrds of you, it is an absolute that people are using the access you are readily providing them. - Anthony

There are a lot of free wifi networks available that are openly advertised, such as ones in the city limits and at certain restaurants (e.g. Chick-Fil-A). But how does one know when one is "allowed" to connect to an open and free network? For instance, I was online at Quiznos today. The network SSID was "Quiznos Subs" (sans quotes). But there was no indication of free wifi. So was I not allowed on, or was I okay? The same thing applies for the local Pizza Hut. - Jake (aka Jawee)

yea computerworld had an interesting article on it yesterday as well, was a good read, - BCK

Personally I believe its not the best thing to go off and use a network without permission (no matter if its secured or not), but then there is the whole thing about if its not secured then its practally asking for someone to "steal" it. Of course there are those who don't know anything about network security but perhapse Americans should try not to be so ignorant/naive about technology. (ex. research before you buy) Besides, I believe most routers today include setting a password in their initial setup. - Tyler

This would be given that wifi networks put out and advertised by businesses/cities would be ones that you have permission to access because they are there for your use. - Tyler

@Tyler what is polite and what is legal are two entirely different things. - xero

If you are blasting the stereo at your house and I am in my yard a couple houses down jammin to YOUR tunes...am I stealing your music? - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

Naaaah. Just my groove. Which I'm always willing to share anyway. Steal away. ;-) - Lisa L. Seifert

I threw off his groove! Beware the groove, beware the groooooooovvve! ;) - xero

I'm surprised nobody here had brought up the fact that, when you get onto wifi, you actually are asking permission. The wifi router has to actively respond, otherwise you can't use their wifi. So the question to answer (given this interpretation) is: Can a computer legally give a person permission to enter its owner's property? I would think the answer would be yes (otherwise, computerized security doors might be a bit of a problem). - Alex

(Continued from previous comment:) So, if a computer is allowed to control this, I would say that, setting up your wireless access point without security is giving that computer permission to let anyone onto it. The next point is: Is MAC filtering reasonable security? IMHO it is(legally, but not technically - same as legally, 64-bit WEP would be, but it's crackable in a few seconds). One has to make a specific effort to break MAC filtering, and perhaps doing so could be considered wire fraud (breaking WEP?) - Alex