Very good advice, Thomas. A comment on no. 6 ("Groups"): I remember Flickr staff mentioning that not only photos that are in too many groups (more than 10-15, as a rule of thumb) get penalties for their Explore rating. Allegedly, this is also true for photos that are in the *wrong* groups, specifically the ubiquitous "post 1, comment x" groups. So not all photo critique groups might be good when you want to get your pictures into Explore.
- Ole Begemann
Ole, I hadn't heard that certain groups penalized photos but have seen Flickr staff in the past mention that posting your photo to too many groups will reduce it's visibility with their algorithm.
- Thomas Hawk
Re: no. 5 ("Explore"): more criteria that seem to influence whether a photo makes it to Explore: the presence of EXIF data, geotags, title, description has a positive influence; faves and comments from people who are not among your contacts seem to count more than from contacts; faves and comments from popular photographers count more than those from nobodys; a photo that gets 2 or 3 faves within minutes after uploading is more likely to make Explore than one that gets faved 15 times within 24 hours.
- Ole Begemann
Thomas, I'll try to find a reference for this.
- Ole Begemann
Good point on EXIF data Ole, yes, photos in Explore are required to have EXIF data. My own guess as to why this is is that if a photo has EXIF data it is more likely to be your own photo vs. something you simply ripped from the web. Not foolproof of course but I'd guess that this policy is in part due to a desire to increase the authenticity of the photos promoted on Explore.
- Thomas Hawk
If you look at the photos in Explore, the only "Leave a comment" groups that I see with any regularity are TWTME and 1-2-3 groups... what makes them special I'm not sure, other than they're amongst the largest groups in general. But you see very few of those award groups or "leave x comments" groups in the photos in Explore, so I suspect that Flickr must be penalizing them.
- Eric P
Thomas, that's a great refresher on the original article. Some great tips.
- Tom Quinn
And Thomas, throwing reciprocation in as a "bonus"? It should have been #1 or #2. The vast, vast, vast majority of comments and faves that I receive are from people whose stream I previously visited. The only real exception to that is when a photo is high in Explore, which results in a torrent of views/comments/faves from strangers.
- Eric P
Yep Eric. Reciprocation is very high. Bonus tip might not be the best place for it. It's very important. Faving back when people fave your work, commenting back. Adding people back as mutual contacts, etc. All encourage activity on your photostream.
- Thomas Hawk
Eric, participation groups don't penalize your photo from Explore best I can tell. This photo http://www.flickr.com/photos... from a few weeks ago was in the Deleteme Uncensored critique group and was #3 on Explore as well.
- Thomas Hawk
In fact just searching flickr for the save10 tag from the DMU critique group along with "explore" brings up a number of photos: http://www.flickr.com/search...
- Thomas Hawk
Good post, *IF* getting attention is important to you, as opposed to using it as a vehicle to just share photos with people
- Eric Rice
After I read your original article on Flickr popularity a while back, I began reciprocating every comment received. That worked very well.
- Tom Harrison
Eric, true. Some people have no interest in their photos receiving attention. I do think that the majority of people posting on Flickr though do appreciate when their photos receive some attention. Lots of people do not though. I have friends that only publish private photos that their friends can see and opt out of every public aspect of Flickr. I think these people though are the exception rather than the norm and think that Caterina's quote is pretty typical of the most active users on the site.
- Thomas Hawk
Alright, I found something. Flickr staff member acknowledged almost 2 years ago that "groups that force people to comment/fave on certain photos with no choice" do in fact hurt your Explore chances. Also, "weight of comments and favorites from contacts is quite low in interestingness calculation." (http://www.flickr.com/groups...). A very old post and the algorithm has changed since then but we can probably say that the gist of it is still true.
- Ole Begemann
interesting Ole. I hadn't seen that. I think it would be difficult for Flickr to manually track every group that encourages tags and comments as participation. Per the links above though, photos in DMU have definitely made it into Explore anyways.
- Thomas Hawk
Yeah, I have no idea how they maintain a list of the "bad" groups. Further below, SilentObserver mentions his business is writing algorithms to filter them out automatically, though.
- Ole Begemann
Here is an example of tagging. I did not know this woman was a celebrity until after got this shot. It appears on the first page of the image search engines and it has received over 12,000 views. http://flickr.com/photos...
- Russellreno
So far I got 3 (!) photos into explore. Their common factor? They all were faved by you (TH) soon after I posted theim.
- Guillaume Lemoine
Flickr used to say "who" faves your shots was a part of the Explore algorithm. It wouldn't surprise me if the algorithm weights faves by different people from the Flickr community differently. For instance, Pro accounts where people actually have paid for the service might be weighted higher than non-Pro accounts. More active users might carry more weight with their faves then less active users. Just speculating on this part.
- Thomas Hawk
Thomas - I don't think that participation in all groups gets a penalty, just that there are some groups that are penalized as far as Explore is concerned. I simply don't see Explore photos in "Post 1, Comment X" groups - so either there's no explore-worthy photos in those groups (not likely IMHO), or Flickr is penalizing the photos in those groups.
- Eric P
As a note to certain groups penalizing your photos...I had a photo (http://www.flickr.com/photos...) that went to explore spot 150 or so. After, I added it to a few groups to see if I could bump it higher. It had the opposite affect and immediately dropped off. I can't say which group exactly did it or if it was the number of groups I submitted to, but adding to groups definitely does come with some sort of penalty.
- Justin Korn
If you use FeedBurner, you can splice your Flickr photos into your blog feed. I have it splice my last two photos and I find those have at least 5x the number of views as the ones that aren't in my spliced feed.
- Mike Hussein Cohen
Awesome post Thomas. I signed up for Flickr a couple of years ago, but only started using it more regularly after the purchase of a digital SLR camera - so this post is particularly relevant to me. I am still patiently waiting for that first comment/favourite on one of my photos to truly experience the emotions as described by Caterina Fake.
- Jeff Smith
Thanks for this post, Thomas. Great tips!
- Eric Johnson
Great article Thomas... I was also wondering about what my friend calls 'Shooting for the 75'. That is, a great majority of people only ever see a 75 x 75px thumbnail of your photo. When he processes, he always does a square crop to test how it looks in the frame. Would you like to see proportional thumbnails as an option?
- Johnny Worthington
I actually really like the square thumbnails. Heck I really like the square crop period. I think I'm cropping more and more of my photos 4x4 these days. Maybe it's just that I've always loved medium format photography so much, not sure why I'm so drawn to the square crop right now though. I much prefer Flickr's square thumbnails actually. Still would love to see larger sizes on FF like SmugMug's thumbnails.
- Thomas Hawk
you're right though. Frequently it's the thumbnail that draws people into a photo. A good looking thumbnail is more likely to be selected by viewers for clicking through to full size viewing, commenting, faving, etc.
- Thomas Hawk
One of my very first Flickr experiences was someone in a critique group cutting me down for a square crop. It was a rose in a perfect spiral petal pattern, could only be cropped square as far as I was concerned. LOL...I didn't change it either.
- Karoli
Haha, that's funny Karoli. so much of the criticism in critique groups on Flickr is so lame. You should have seen the deleteme critique group ravage a Henry Cartier Bresson photograph who is probably considered by most photo historians as the greatest photographer who ever lived. Read some of these comments on this photo for a laugh: http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Thomas Hawk
I used to work to get photos into explore. I think I probably take better pictures now, but I don't have the time at the moment to put in the work. Lots of community building and commenting went into the mix. I confess, there's a real rush to hitting the front page. I had three in the top 10, and it was a lot of fun.
- Karoli
I have been doing a lot of panoramic shots over the past year and I have started to play around with vertical cropping. Taking a portrait photo and cropping a really tight vertical crop: http://www.flickr.com/photos... It's all about how the picture looks to you in the end. Square, circle or hexagon, it's about the sensory reaction :) (and now I'm going to square crop for this week just to try it out, thanks guys)
- Johnny Worthington
Thomas, those comments are a hoot! I met some nice people in some of the critique groups, but it didn't take me long to know the critiques weren't helping. I do love Flickr's community...even if I haven't spent a lot of time in it lately.
- Karoli
yeah, the attention from Explore can be fun. But I'm pretty unimpressed with a lot of the photos there. I think Flickr could do a much better job with that algorithm. I do find filtering explore just by my contacts though produces more consistently interesting photographs for me. I use this script to do just that: http://www.drewmyersphoto.net/flickr_...
- Thomas Hawk
Agree on the photo quality on Explore. Seems like a lot of the same sort of gimmicky stuff lands there. Looking forward to trying the script.
- Karoli
Thanks for the article, that opened my eyes up a lot
- Alex Carpenter
Hey Karoli, here's you and your daughter by the way. I uploaded this to Zooomr a while back when I was taking a break from Flickr but uploaded it tonight on Flickr. Great fun on that photowalk. http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Thomas Hawk
Hey, cool! Thanks for the pointer. It was a great photowalk, would love to do another sometime soon!
- Karoli
Here is one more way to get attention: Comment on this post with a link to one of your photos. I received a hit today from the comment about. http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Russellreno
Amazon MP3 has Nickelback's new Dark Horse album on sale for $3.99. I dig it so far, but I'm a sucker for Nickelback and I'm not ashamed to admit it. #deal - http://www.amazon.com/gp...
This weekend the California Academy of Science reopens to the general public in Golden Gate Park. After setting up in temporary quarters down on Howard Street for a number of years, the Academy, the oldest natural science museum west of the Mississippi, is back in all it's splendor and all it's glory. The restoration reportedly cost $488 million. I had an opportunity as part of a member preview day yesterday to visit the Academy before its premier to the general public this weekend and I have to say I was very impressed with the new museum.
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
the albino croc was amazing. He's in a cut out tank and everyone can gather around the railing and look down on him. It was such a treat to be able to take photos there yesterday. Non stop shooting for five hours.
- Thomas Hawk
How many photos you took there? Just 100? ;)
- Daniel Schildt
As it would be nice to know how small percent of photos you publish normally.
- Daniel Schildt
Daniel I took 1,656 photos over about a five hour period. I processed about 250 of them and published 100 of what I felt were the best to Flickr late last night and early this morning. So I kept a little over 15% of the shots I took -- about standard for me these days.
- Thomas Hawk
@Thomas It was nice to hear that. Even while I'm not even close to that % since I post only about less than 1% of my photos to web... Should post some more.
- Daniel Schildt
Look at that there... THAT is a prince. Wow. The great cats have SO much poise! They LOOK like the kings of the jungle.
- Parth Awasthi
Once over the cute overdose, I must say, I understand how animals this powerful need to be this adorable when they are young. It's the only way to survive. What a gorgeous picture.
- Juan Carlo Rodríguez
Thoughtful blog posting...the comment section is even more interesting. Almost everybody beings their sentence with sorry. upsetting, pity...
- kamla bhatt
from Bookmarklet
anytime a blogger stops, the World gets a bit more silent.
- Chuck
"Copyright law has abandoned its reason for being: to encourage learning and the creation of new works. Instead, its principal functions now are to preserve existing failed business models, to suppress new business models and technologies, and to obtain, if possible, enormous windfall profits from activity that not only causes no harm, but which is beneficial to copyright owners. Like Humpty-Dumpty, the copyright law we used to know can never be put back together again" - So true
- Dave Q
@Corie Allison -- I am almost afraid to ask but which counterpart is that?
- Nicholas Kreidberg
I added this to my Amazon Wishlist before but then realized that somehow I'd inadvertently gotten two accounts set up at amazon.com under my same email address and had to move this item from the one wishlist to the other.
- Thomas Hawk
Without a litter of pups that need to be nursed to health, I guess I don't have much use for them. But thanks. ;)
- Anthony Citrano
McCain's campaign is nothing but whining ('why does the world love Obama?'), attack ('Why didn't Obama make political hay out of wounded vets in Germany?'), and big-oil ideas ('more drilling -- in 30 years we'll start to really think about getting off the crack!'). It is amazing to watch the mainstream media cower before the GOP message machine, regardless.
- JB Holston
wait a sec... isn't Obama losing according to latest polls? what in the hell are you talking about?
- Noah David Simon
I think your rating of either campaign might be slightly influenced by which candidate you favor.
- Michael Tefft
true, somehow McCain isn't getting any press coverage(and if any all bad), and Obama is parading around the world like he's already won.
- clarke thomas
Obama is a "hip" guy, McCain hardly knows how to pick up a phone. That's a tough challenge for a campaign office.
- Juan Carlo Rodríguez
@Vincent - great managers hire great people (and the greatest managers hire people smarter than themselves in specific areas) ....I will say that I think the one thing Obama should be careful of is not assuming the role of President before the 'people' have actually elected him. It's good to go overseas and show your stuff but bad if there is the potential for the backlash of people who don't want him to assume his victory before the people have even spoken....(and yes that is a Canadians outsider POV)
- leigh himel
Then why are they neck and neck and in some polls McCain leading? Just saying. You're right on the campaigns, just saying, why isn't it making a huge difference for Obama? I can't figure it out either.
- Jim Kukral
McCain is too busy firing people from his campaign to actually manage it.
- jcunwired
A candidate's campaign and campaign staff is akin to the cabinet and other positions when assuming the presidency. So, by this measure I agree that McCain's campaign has been a scary look at what we could expect from his administration. The relentless gaffe's by McCain show a lack of coordination by his team. If they can't get it together now - what makes us believe they could do it once they were in office?
- AJ Kohn
I guess Obama's staff wasn't to blame when someone took recorded his gaffe about Guns and Religion, because, after all, his campaign is 'brilliant'. (sarcasm for those who don't think the original post in this thread was silly).
- Andrew Leyden
media mgmt is key but is not the whole story.
- jonathan
This is like any brand marketing campaign -- you can't be successful if the product behind the brand is faulty
- Brian Sullivan
that wasn't a gaffe, people do cling to guns or religion because their lives suck.
- Geoffrey Hamilton
from twhirl
Marc Andreessen spent 1.5 hours w/ Obama 1.5 years ago and blogged about it http://tinyurl.com/create.php The best bit is this quote: "[MA] asked him directly, how concerned should we be that you haven't had meaningful experience as an executive -- as a manager and leader of people?" Obama replied, "Watch how I run my campaign -- you'll see my leadership skills in action."
- Furqan
@Geoffrey: brilliant deduction. so if I say "people cling to Obama because they're stupid and think socialism is a good idea," that's not just as offensive to your side of the fence? Whether or not every liberal thinks Red Staters are ignorant religious fanatics (and whether or not it's true), if the candidate wants their votes, he'd better not say it.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Not JUST religious fanatics (whether or not it's true), but the space limitation prevents me from completing the list ;-)
- jcunwired
It was a gaffe. Losing your job doesn't make you cling to guns or religion. It makes you drink.
- Andrew Leyden
@Vincent, is it not important the people you select to run things for you. There's a funny thing called a Presidential Cabinet, and this is exactly what the future President will be doing -- choosing people to run the country. While campaign is certainly not a great comparison, it is a great way to see how a candidate chooses his closest advisors, mentors, and friends -- after all, those same people will run the country for four years.
- David Adewumi
I'm not offended by you saying that I'm stupid and I think socialism is a good idea because I like Obama. And you shouldn't be offended by me saying I think you're stupid for believing in God either.
- Geoffrey Hamilton
from twhirl
@Jim I think Obama hasn't sealed the deal with a clear majority yet primarily because (a) he's a black man and we've never elected an African-American president so that's always going to be a hurdle and is going to cut into his margins, (b) he's young and not nationally known up to recently, so he is still introducing himself to the country, especially those who don't tune in during primaries.
- Christian Crumlish
From the Kitchn: "Good morning... Don't these look good? We know a thick pile of pancakes may sound overindulgent on a Monday, especially if you've had a weekend full of eating, but this photo reminded us of what a good vehicle for fresh (healthy) fruit pancakes are. Get our recipes below..."
- Mark Trapp
from Bookmarklet
ZOMG NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM...
- Great Scott!
mark, you're allergic to blueberries?! :( you poor guy.
- edythe
Yeah, Polly :-/ I found out in the worst way, too: when I was a kid, we had gotten bagels for breakfast, I chose the blueberry bagel, and broke out.
- Mark Trapp
Not saying allergic reaction cool but blueberry bagel=FAIL! Want fruit eat a jelly donut IMHO.
- Mark Forman
Regarding the Cuil Launch, aren't we being really tough on them? Think about the expectations that have been piled on them. Sure, some of those expectations have been self-promoted, ouch. I for one will be watching cuil as they iterate and (hopefully) improve... - http://www.cuil.com/
If you manage to get yourself on the main page of every news site in the world, you better be ready for the deluge that follows. This is a success failure on a grand scale.
- Stephen Pierzchala
I dunno. Maybe, but with all the fanfare, what else were we going to do? The thing kind of blows in current form. Neat glimpse, but not even really "labs" quality.
- Chris Brogan
David: Stephen is exactly right. Expectations for a search engine ARE extraordinarily high, but then they should be. Any company that gets $30 million to compete with Google (and hire the PR that they did) should be looked at pretty toughly.
- Robert Scoble
Unexpected load levels following major public releases are the big surprise here, whatever it is they're trying to deliver. Look in the last few days (weeks) at all the overload trouble that cast doubts on the likes of MobileMe & Twitter. Of course, testing the limitations of scalability (and surmounting them) seems to be the brass ring here, but the real story is the visceral response that viral marketing spawns among a widening audience of users outside the "endless September" bubble.
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
I'm not seeing anything special with Cuil. Has everyone forgotten about MyLiveSearch: http://www.mylivesearch.com/ That was also a supposed Google killer, but at least it does more than Cuil. Search is not a market to attempt to compete in right now.
- James Mowery
from twhirl
Two basic expectations of modern search engines: They're fast and they return good results. Cuil meets neither expectation. That's NOT asking too much.
- Dwight Silverman
Not asking too much. Semantic search is a "big one" that many of is would like. Cuill's "epic FAIL" is their stupidity to not do a (1) alpha-launch, generate buzz by selectively letting in tech bloggers, test their stuff, make bloggers feel good by being in on something early, about 200-500 people (2) private beta-launch, quiet, limited to 5,000 people (3) New York Times launch. - I think their team was focused on the "Stealth approach", not realizing they would shoot themselves in the foot.
- Mitchell Tsai
It wasn't a great day to be cuil. It yields some pretty erratic and not very useful results in a nice looking format. Cute but vacuous won't get it. Search is a power tool, not a fashion accessory.
- Phil Yanov
what got me was the amount of spammy results I got back, considering the seo people haven't had a chance to game them yet... Doesn't seem too promising.
- Janek Mann
"Epic FAIL?" c'mon, give them a week or so to stop being surprised by the response and then let's see if they have a valuable product. Being overwhelmed by the initial response is neither stupid nor indicative of failure. Just me.
- Jack Baty
But considering the names that were behind and therefore the expectations it had carried, not to mention the search engine was a launch, not a beta release, I think we could?
- Jay
I think, according to the picture, you're supposed to clap to encourage the device to produce the bacon. Just make sure to catch it before it hits the floor!
- Chrimmus Tad
Okay, I'm sick of all the bacon stuff, but this really did make me LOL!
- Louie
I will have a 12-year old moment and cross-off the '-on' so it says PUSH BUTT RECEIVE BACON cuz that's how I rol--- er, nevermind that last part.
- Eric Rice
Tad: No, he or she is trying to wipe-off the first drops of the burning hot oil. It's futile.
- Chris Baskind
Eric, that might invite receiving the bacon in an undesired orifice.
- Chrimmus Tad
Holy crap - I sure hope Lindsay's happy now. She's in the other room giggling like a little girl.
- Chrimmus Tad
Lindsay omg i love you. i can't stop staring at this
- Mona Nomura
hover over my name (damnit, it's a tad cut off)------->
- Mona Nomura
It's funny that so many of you haven't seen this. I've seen this in men's rooms tons of times. Maybe girls don't deface their restroom accessories. That said, it doesn't take away from this image's pure unadulterated awesomeness.
- Chrimmus Tad
Mona - Sacrilage (or some other accusation). Bring back the older profile pic - it was, ugh, way better.
- Yuvi
Tad: I've seen the image plenty of times, but not with a bacon makeover. lol
- Louie
i don't care if it's old, i'm Lindsay's best friend for life. Hey -can I come over?
- Mona Nomura
It's a long drive, but sure. I seem to remember you offering to clean and cook too. :D We'll pay in bacon.
- Chrimmus Tad
I had bacon and shrimp for dinner (seriously... this new diet is kinda strange). But I won't be making any more bacon until Wednesday. I'll make you some if you come over, Mona.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
And of course I'll be bringing some... bacon! :) -starts packing bags-
- Mona Nomura
@Mona - Please tell me that the "going over" thing is a joke and you two live on the opposite sides of the world.
- Yuvi
Mona is probably within a 2 or 3 day drive from here. Or a 3 hour flight. And Mona - we can get the GOOD bacon from Whole Foods. ;)
- Chrimmus Tad
@Tad - Thankfully - I was getting a bit envious ;)
- Yuvi
Whole Foods? EF that rip off excuse for a supermarket. I'll bring you some fresh bacon with my ninja skills. HIYYYYYY-YA ....o wait, that's Street Fighter. Nevermind
- Mona Nomura
Mona, please record a song about how you feel about Bacon and post the video here on FriendFeed.
- Chrimmus Tad