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MVB (Grinch of FF)
If you want a good look at what unions combined with a longterm, far left political philosophy can do for you, I give you... Detroit.
Actually, why was the American automobile industry unable to compete effectively against its foreign competitors, especially from Japan and South Korea? What were the objective causes of the failure in priority order? - Sean McBride
The logical concussion of any large corporation that offers lifetime benefits and a pension to it's retirees is the same, Sean. At some point the financial burden becomes unbearable. - MVB (Grinch of FF)
Cars designed for expensive gas is one cause. - Thomas Page
And yet, Thomas, BMW, which all use high octane fuels, seems to be doing just fine. - MVB (Grinch of FF)
Economic factors and engineering factors. High octane=High compression - Thomas Page
Mark -- do you have any pointers to academic articles on benefits enjoyed by American automotive workers compared to Japanese and South Korean automotive workers? (I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily -- I am just curious about the hard numbers. I also have the vague impression that the upper management of the American automotive industry became fat, stupid and lazy, and stopped... more... - Sean McBride
# 1, Legacy benefits # 2, Smaller margins and an attempt to maximize those margins through homogenization and lack of innovation. # 3, In-efficient production and distribution models many due to contractual agreements primarily with unions. # 4, Inconsistent government interference and regulation resulting in substantial resources spent in litigation and lobbying efforts. That is just for starters. - Eric Logan
Sean, The Japanese automotive industries system of statistical process controls and lean manufacturing was designed by an American, Edwards Deming. American manufacturing could not or would not follow Edwards Demings recommendations. Despite touting Total Quality Management. The results are now evident, hindsight being 20/20. I actually tried to find some historical criticism articles... more... - Eric Logan
Thanks for mentioning Demings, Eric. Others, look here for related causes and lack of innovation: http://www.tnr.com/article... - Christopher Harley
<paper>Beverly J. Silver; Labor Unrest and the Successive Geographical Restructuring of the World Automobile Industry, 1930's to the Present http://www2.cddc.vt.edu/digital...</paper> - Sean McBride
European wages and benefits enable building better cars? - Thomas Page
It's always confounded me how it was the _unions_ at fault for Detroit's failures when the prestigious, successful foreign carmakers are also unionized... (edit: yes, I know Honda and Toyota's US plants aren't unionized; I meant their Japanese plants.) - Andrew C from Android
Union wages and legacy benefits when considered as costs of production prevented domestic manufacturers from becoming vertically integrated. Instead of a just in time inventory model domestic manufacturers warehoused parts based on production and assembly contracts. They actually spun off many of the in house operations both to raise capital and in an attempt at cost controls. Companies... more... - Eric Logan
Thanks for providing the background and links, Eric and Christopher. - MVB (Grinch of FF)
Getting back to my original thought, this is not merely an automaker issue. Detroit currently has about 50% unemployment. The mayor and the city council have been far left, as a whole, since at least the 1960's. This is far more than one industry. - MVB (Grinch of FF)
Is it? As I understood it, manufacturing jobs have much larger multiplier effects than service industry jobs. - Andrew C
Where is Alex's outrage? :) he loved unions - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
I'd say that Detroit tells us more about the evils/failings of large multinational corporations than it does about the problems with unions. Unions are just one component of why the big three American car companies failed to compete with the rest of the world. - Alex Scoble
shitty products and.rotten QC sure play a part! - Joe Silence
I don't know how "far left" Detroit truly is Mark. Except for when it comes to Labor, the state tends to vote pretty conservatively. I've always said that this was a blue collar state with white collar aspirations. What has pickled Detroit - IMHO - is basic lust after short term gain (from the business and largely conservative community), political corruption (which has been with the... more... - MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS
What cooked Detroit is what destroyed all US business the rise of the idiot MBA and fallacy that all business was the same. Of course the Walmarting of labor and off shoring of US production did not help of course - WarLord
Yeah, I agree with Barry. This area is a lot less liberal than people seem to think. - Derek Coward
Things you (apparently) can say, even though they aren't true for $100. - Richard Lawler
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
I have declared today as National "Derrick is awesome" day.
Only problem is... that's everyday - Johnny Worthington
Derrick transcends borders. It should be International Derrick Is Awesome Day. - Mark H
Good point Johnny - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Mark - we will have to rename it - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Wanted to catch this before the day faded, but, yes, Derrick is awesome! - Helen Sventitsky
OF COURSE! Derrick IS TEH AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! - WorldofHiglet
Where is that guy? - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Robert Scoble
I am hanging out just down the street from Apple's headquarters. AT&T is only giving me one bar of 3G. So much for living in Cupertino!
The apple store by my house has no signal - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
TSA To Save Print Media? No Electronics On International Flights? What A Joke.
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Will Tiger Woods 2010 for Xbox have extra cheat codes?
Just wondering.... - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
First rock climbing harness is a hit!
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What brand did you settle on? - Mathew A. Koeneker
Kid stuff is made by Camp USA. Most of my stuff is Black Diamond - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
And some Arc'teryx - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
I love the dash on the new Infiniti (via www.carclub.ru) - http://jeffdoug.tumblr.com/post...
I love the dash on the new Infiniti
 
(via www.carclub.ru)
saw this again today. LOVE IT - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
nice' - sean percival
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Merry Christmas Friendfeeders
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The oldest is too cool for pictures - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Breakfast - Shhh, don't tell mom!
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Heh. - Derrick
you're dead Jeff.............lol - VAL D. Zone
Dad is great ....... - VAL D. Zone
Evidence has been taken care of - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
but wait til the sugar kicks in..... I love their faces they know .............*wink* - VAL D. Zone
They know their crime :) - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
GOTDAMN. - Derrick
Uh oh. Tacos. - Christopher A Carr
I ate 12 total - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Sad thing is I could eat 4 more - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
You are taco glutton! - Christopher A Carr
One thing I will enjoy in San Diego when I go home for the holidays is some carne asada french fries. Oh, home. - Derrick
Asada French Fries? - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Christopher - there are 4 things I can eat almost inhuman amounts of at a time. Spaghetti, Shabu Shabu, Tacos, & Pizza. - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
mouth is officially watering. - Chieze Okoye
Derrick - that looks amazing - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Derrick
Posted via web from Derrick - Derrick from Posterous
This is my favorite thing right now. Awesome, D! - Mary Carmen
Thanks everyone. Sometimes you just need to give yourself a kick in the pants. - Derrick
Derrick, you are such an incredible person. I'm glad to know you. - Junebug (aka Sarah Jill)
*blushes* Thanks, Junebug. I hope others can have similar conversations with themselves too. - Derrick
This is awesome! - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ
The Other Derrick is a wise man ;-) - Maria Niles
#oohderrick... excuse me... gots something in my eye... *turns away* - MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS
Derrick - you rock - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Very good. - laura x
I really like this, D. - Laura B.
Great advice for us all. Best of luck in 2010 (and the rest of 2009). - Matt Hilton
I actually got a little teary-eyed reading your letter to yourself, D. Good stuff. The Other Derrick is just as awesome as you are. :-) - Jason Huebel
is there anyone who can't relate to this "letter to myself"? if they raise their hand i won't believe them~ - sally stokhamer
I adore the opening salvo of advice :) - Michael W. May
Well done, Derrick. - Polly Potter
Awesome read and enlightening. It'll make me think about my own letter. Thank you for sharing. - Arlan Koizumi
<3 - Anna Haro
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Keiko Yamada
If you come to Tokyo, where you want to go?....... Roppongi? Ginza? Akihabara(=Akiba)? Odaiba???
Everywhere. =) - ronin
I love it everywhere - Roberta Greenfield
omedetoo yamada-san - Roberta Greenfield
I would love to come to Japan, I really adore japanese food - Maurizio Goetz
@ronin>oh...really? I'm glad! - Keiko Yamada
@ Roberta Greenfield >wow! really? :D - Keiko Yamada
yes :) just a little bit - Roberta Greenfield
@Maurizio Goetz >Grazie! - Keiko Yamada
@ Roberta Greenfield >:))))) - Keiko Yamada
Tsukishima and Kagurazaka :) - tracina
Hello,tracina! wow....Tukishima & Kagurazaka?.....Why? Do you know "monjayaki" ?? - Keiko Yamada
I ate monjayaki in Tukishima :D I lived in Tokyo three months last year,and I really loved the little red bridge in Tukishima and the old narrow streets of kagurazaka!actually, i loved every spot of the city I saw. - tracina
Ah,see...! Three month? How did you like in Japan? - Keiko Yamada
First stop: Shomben Yokocho - Christopher A Carr
Almost everything was great!so different from italy! - tracina
@ Christopher A Carr >:))))) Shinjuku desune! - Keiko Yamada
@tracina >No, anche noi! molto interessante in Italia. Mi piace molto! Il mio cuore semple Italia!.....cosi!!! - Keiko Yamada
In Tokyo, I usually go to Shinjuku, Shibuya, Odaiba and Akihabara. Sometimes I go to Kyoto as well (one of my host families is there, the other is in Chiba-ken no Kashiwa-shi, where I also sometimes go) - Chieze Okoye
I see...also Chiba-ken?....:))) Great! - Keiko Yamada
they say that a perfect country would be Japan+Italy...like Japaly or Itapan LOL :D - tracina
Ha ha ha ha! Omoshiroooooi! Che buona idea! The new word! vero? - Keiko Yamada
hehehehe shinjirarenai :D - tracina
Keiko: So desu. I also wouldn't wait very long to go to that gyoza theme/amusement park complex in Ikebukuro. - Christopher A Carr
So...Gyoza mo oishii ne! beer to saiko~~! :) - Keiko Yamada
boku no yaki gyoza :-P http://ff.im/aEUVV - Dund Kalah
??? un'po di strano.... :) - Keiko Yamada
I know, I don't speak japanese well, and I don't cook japanese well, either :-D - Dund Kalah from iPhone
Shibuya - Morgan Haley
@Dund Kalah>Really? But your Japanese well! - Keiko Yamada
@Morgan Haley >Hello! Do you know Shibuya?? - Keiko Yamada
The quality of one's Nihongo is inversely proportionate to the number of compliments one receives from native speakers of Japanese. ;-) - Christopher A Carr
When non-Japanese people speak Nihongo REALLY well, it's just henna. ;-) - Christopher A Carr
:) for example? - Keiko Yamada
dang. now i want some shabu shabu - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Hello Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) ! Have you ever been to Tokio? What's マクダジ?? - Keiko Yamada
Keiko: When a gaijin speaks educated Nihongo, and is extremely savvy in Japanese culture, it seems as if it sort of gives many Japanese people the creeps. It's probably worse when these gaijin have a kind of fetish for Japanese culture - know more about sumo and shinto and Japanese politics than most Tokyoites... If I speak broken Nihongo at an Izakaya in Tokyo, I'll be told several... more... - Christopher A Carr
I want to come to your house and have you cook me dinner. What's your address and phone number? - Cristo
"What's マクダジ?" I was meaning to ask the same thing. :-) - Christopher A Carr
Say it out-loud... slowly.... - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Oh. I think I'll let you explain that to Keiko. :-) - Christopher A Carr
Keiko. I've been to Japan lots. I love it - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Jeff, think it should be マクダ-- ジ - Christopher A Carr
Well, perhaps not. Hard to katakanacize that. - Christopher A Carr
@ Christopher A Carr >I'm sorry.....I don't understand well. - Keiko Yamada
@Cristo >Are you serious?? - Keiko Yamada
@ Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) >Thanks! - Keiko Yamada
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
A Mockup of the Firefox 4 User Interface: Hello, Gorgeous! - - http://gizmodo.com/5432623...
A Mockup of the Firefox 4 User Interface: Hello, Gorgeous! -
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Do Not Retaliate For Bad Customer Service With Bomb Threats - http://consumerist.com/2009...
The best way to deal with poor customer service from a mall is not to turn around and call in a bomb threat. From your office phone. Without blocking caller ID. - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Court orders Microsoft to stop selling Word - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...
"A federal appeals court ordered Microsoft Corp. to stop selling its Word program in January and pay a Canadian software company $290 million for violating a patent" - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from Bookmarklet
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Spain’s lottery makes winners of thousands - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...
"The top prize of Spain's Christmas lottery — billed as among the world's richest — was won Tuesday 1,950 people." - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from Bookmarklet
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Ideal beauty a matter of millimeters, study says - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...
Ideal beauty a matter of millimeters, study says
The middle one is the real one, I assume. Although I have seen people with their eyes farther apart like the one on the left. - Jason Huebel
amazing what a small difference makes - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Fla. mom under fire for tweet after son's death - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...
Fla. mom under fire for tweet after son's death
I don't get it... why is she getting flak? She sent a tweet asking for prayers (After it happened)... who wouldn't reach out to people for support after something horrible like that happened? - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
I don't know that it would even occur to me to Tweet for something like this, but people respond differently when they are in shock and/or grieving. It sounds like she has a huge community on Twitter that she turned to. I'm with you Jeff. I don't understand the negativity. - Junebug (aka Sarah Jill)
It's a horrible reflection on humanity that she would be criticized that way. If she was twittering while her son was unsupervised around the pool, that's one thing. If she's letting people know what happened and looking for support, like it seems, that's her business and no one elses. - Heather
The ex-paramedic was more than a little harsh. How does she know that tweeting killed her son? Yeah, you have a little information...but you don't know what really happened. And you wonder why YOU'RE under fire right now? YOU stood up as judge and jury, basically saying that child would be alive if mommy wasn't on Twitter. The fact is: you don't really know, and there's no way you could... more... - FF's Bubba of Arizona
Bubba, That is exactly how I feel. - Michelle Martinez
people are sick sometimes. let her mourn in peace - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
WorldofHiglet
Lies, Hollywood Lawyers & The Continuing Case Of Demi's Left Leg - Demi moore photoshop - Jezebel - http://jezebel.com/5430605...
Lies, Hollywood Lawyers & The Continuing Case Of Demi's Left Leg - Demi moore photoshop - Jezebel
Lies, Hollywood Lawyers & The Continuing Case Of Demi's Left Leg - Demi moore photoshop - Jezebel
"How does a celebrity keep a fading, potentially unflattering story about digital manipulation alive? She gets her legal counsel to intervene with a stern missive to bloggers that, like many women's magazine images, bears little to no resemblance to reality...." - WorldofHiglet from Bookmarklet
From the comments: "Today, a group of celebrity-lawyers tried to stop the Internet. In response, the Internet pointed and laughed." Yes. Yes, they did. - WorldofHiglet
I also like this one: “Hm. Her publicists need a publicist. Or a Jr. High debate club advisor.” - Anthony Citrano
Your response was well written Anthony. - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Thanks, Jeff. All of you feel free to Digg here: http://digg.com/d31DQBN - Anthony Citrano
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Santa's a Health Menace? Media Everywhere Are Falling for It—But the Study Was Meant as a Joke - http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs...
Santa's a Health Menace? Media Everywhere Are Falling for It—But the Study Was Meant as a Joke
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
My new security approach for surfing web. Run browser in XP mode on Win 7 machine. Stupidly easy to do, and keeps my "real" machine totally protected.
I can even make it appear as a normal app link in the start menu. so i don't need to jump thru 10 steps to get it to work - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
Next-gen Ford Sync adding WiFi hotspot capabilities, you provide the 3G modem - http://www.engadget.com/2009...
Next-gen Ford Sync adding WiFi hotspot capabilities, you provide the 3G modem
Sure, you could go the easy route and pick up a MiFi, but if you're serious about your on-the-road wireless broadband, you should probably buy an entire car. - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from Bookmarklet
Derrick
Y'all might get mad and wanna block me, especially my peoples in Texas, but I gotta say this and get it off my chest:
I don't really like brisket. - Derrick
and I quote "How dreadful" (it's okay I still love you) - aden
BLOCKED. - Akiva Moskovitz
All brisket? I mean I love brisket, but every time I go to a restaurant and get it, it's crap. - Rob Haas
Akiva, you don't eat beef! - Derrick
I used to and brisket was one of my favorites. - Akiva Moskovitz
Aw. Imma tell you a secret: you havent had MY brisket. juicy and tender sweet. An easy cut to mess up if you do it wrong, though - it can be tough as hell. - Archangel ωαřмaiden
I think it's because my family is from Memphis and our BBQ always revolved around pork and chicken. We actually didn't eat a lot of beef at all outside of hamburger. And now I want some slow braised baby back ribs. I might have to go to the store. - Derrick
I'm not a BBQ beef fan, either, Derrick. And I don't think I've ever tasted brisket. - Laura B.
Blocked - Alex Scrivener
I'm almost with you on this. It's so touchy. Can be good, probably is teh shoo lethur. - Jeremy (on vacation)
But Derrick Brisket is like the best thing ever... This is almost deserving of a block. - Rasmus Lauridsen
:(((((((((((((((((((((((((( - Derrick
Just eat the brisket gravy, I love that and I don't like to eat meat. - m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
OMG...and I thought I knew you!!! :( - JA Castillo
Don't y'all realize how much brisket is now available for you!?! And I don't hate it, but I eat it and I'm always like, meh. BRING ON THE PROK. - Derrick
Pork is the only REAL barbecue, it's true. Anything else may be smoked or grilled, may be served with bbq sauce, and may even be really tasty. But it's not barbecue. To call it such is blasphemy, rank heresy, and an abomination unto the Lord. [IOW, Derrick, I agree. :-) ] - Ladybug Heather
Pork and Chicken are the only real meats you can bbq. - Chrimmus Tad
Anyone who says that only one kind of meat is the 'real' BBQ shows a serious lack of creativity and imagination. What a very narrow-minded person that must be. How sad! - Akiva Moskovitz
LOL. You grow up in the Deep South and the part of your reality tunnel that concerns BBQ becomes pretty opaque. :P - Chrimmus Tad
I had to bing what it was and now I'm hungry... - Jemm
Don't ever say that out loud in Texas, Derrick. - Steven Perez
BBQ and Mexican breakfast tacos are what I miss most about Texas. - Eric Logan
i'd rather have a biscuit - Chris Heath
I love brisket, but I don't think it's the best thing ever by any means. Pork chops or sausage (as far as Texas BBQ) always trump brisket in my book. - Josh Haley
I'm actually making brisket for Crimmuh dinner Derrick. You wouldn't eat it if I shared some? - MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS
Now I have the phrase 'BBQ TUNNEL' stuck in my head. - Akiva Moskovitz
great band name - MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS
Never had it. - Penguin It's Cold Outside from fftogo
You do not BBQ brisket. You pot roast it until it falls apart and then you mail me the gravy. - m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
Derrick - that is an epic fail.... But you are way too awesome to block - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
I'd eat it, Barry, like I said I don't hate it...but I don't love it. And thanks, Jeff. I try. - Derrick from iPhone
Oh, you don't BBQ that! That gets done in the pressure cooker with lots of onions, some water, salt, and a little bit of cranberry juice. And when it comes out, in go the carrots (omg, the best carrots ever!) And then you make the awesome gravy. And of course, if it has awesome gravy it must have mashed potatoes to go with it. (crap...now I am regretting giving up beef. See what you did?) - April Russo (app103)
Don't tell those Texas folks, April. They like their BBQ brisket. - Derrick
Derrick honey, I...I just...look this just isn't working out anymore. Let's just make a clean break ok, rip the band-aid off and move on with our lives? It's not me, it's you. - EricaJoy
What kind of brisket? There is a big difference between BBQ brisket and Jewish grandmother brisket. I love both - Benjamin Golub
Seriously though, really? God I love some brisket thats been coated with a good dry rub, BBQ'd, then served with the north carolina style BBQ sauce (vinegar based, not that ketchup-y crap). Fak, now I'm hungry. - EricaJoy
Benjamin, we hardly ate any brisket. Like I said, my Memphis-based family were much more smitten with pork. Erica, you know I'd go grab a meal with you anywhere. Might this make up for it? http://ff.im/d8new - Derrick
And now I want some Bar-B-Q for breakfast. Thanks, Derrick. ;-) Brisket when prepared well should almost melt in one's mouth. I also vote for the NC style sauce. - Mathew A. Koeneker
You're entitled to express your likes and dislikes. Others are entitled to disagree with you. Anyway on that basis most of the the US should block me, as I really do not like turkey. - Ian May
cosigned really. i don't dislike brisket, but i won't break my neck to get it like i would for some ribs or pork shoulder. - tiffany
I don't eat the little piggies. :( Swap that with beef ribs and I might have to drive down to LA. This is my not kidding face. - EricaJoy
Haven't done beef ribs in awhile, Erica, but I suppose that delicious dry rub could be applied to that as well. I'll keep you posted. :) Tiff: *fist bump* I do want to try some of this well prepared brisket y'all have been talking about, and Ian, I suppose I can't judge you for not liking turkey, although it makes me cry a little on the inside. ;) - Derrick
I...don't understand you anymore. I thought I knew you, Derrick Jefferson. You're obviously not the same man I fell in love with. - Call me Bronco
I realize I'm late to the thread here, but you gotta do better than that, Derrick. Still love you, dude. - ha3rvey (Ho)^3 from fftogo
As a BBQ snob the only thing I have to say here is: I don't care what kind of meat you cooked all day on the smoker, if you pre-sauce that mess before you serve it to me I will assume you're trying to hide subpar meat. For those that wonder, BBQ chicken (i.e. whole pieces sauced and cooked till the sauce glazes so nommily) is not the same as other BBQ and is exempt from the pre-sauce legislation. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
+10 tina. - tiffany
Derrick, I am from NJ and could care less what they BBQ in Texas. They probably wouldn't take too kindly to one of my BBQ favs, either: Fresh tuna and whole roasted bell peppers. The tuna is brushed with Italian pepper butter before and during cooking. My Italian pepper butter recipe: http://momscookbook.blogspot.com/2004... - April Russo (app103)
Hear, hear...that is the spirit, April! I love Q'ing fresh fish and veggies. - Mathew A. Koeneker
Well, at least most people in this thread seem to understand the difference between BBQ, smoking, and grilling. Everyone up here acts like it's all the same. What's worse is that some people are so delusional that they actually believe with all their hearts that gas grilling is better than charcoal. I mean. C'mon, already. - Akiva Moskovitz
@Akiva: Who cares about semantics as long as it is meat and tastes good! :P~ - Jemm
Jemm, you have no respect for tradition! [shakes fist at the sky] - Akiva Moskovitz
Gas grilling? Seriously? If I want to cook with gas, that's what I have the stove in my kitchen for. - April Russo (app103)
How about electric grills? /ducks - Jemm from fftogo
DAMN IT THAT'S NOT BARBECUE APRIL, THAT'S GRILLING. my goodness! such blasphemy on the innanets. - tiffany
I don't think I've had brisket before. - Cheryl Jones
I have also had brisket cooked as a pot roast many times too. It cooks great in a slow cooker as well. There's more than one way to cook most things of course! - Ian May
İ didnt know it was a crime well not a crime but at least a reason for someone to hate u or wanna block you if u dont like Brisket :))))) Or maybe there's a story behind all this and I dont have a clue LOL - AxiDshe_
Major Nelson (Larry)
Although I saw Avatar in 3D, I am starting to think I may go see it again in IMAX.
See IMAX 3D @ Lincoln Square - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) from iPhone
Robert Scoble
Here's all the conversations on FriendFeed: http://friendfeed.com/search... (all items with five or more comments). Just for anyone who is looking for a conversation. Me? I'm looking to get smarter. I wish there were a filter for smart conversations because most of these are, while entertaining, not making me smarter about anything.
In fact, most of these conversations aren't even in English. - Robert Scoble
While I see what you're lamenting, I haven't seen much better on twitter - especially since the format reflects the idea of shouting into the void 160 at a time. - Jeremy (on vacation)
so.... not in English= not smart? Maybe you could learn some of the languages. You'd be smarter then! - Jim Addz No Value
Jeremy: I used to think that too, but then I unfollowed everyone and changed my strategy. My lists are very good now for getting smarter. - Robert Scoble
Jim: not in English = not making ME smarter unless I translate and, even then, finding good conversations is very difficult. Most of the conversations on FriendFeed are pablum, sorry. For instance, the item underneath this one on my screen reads "Just smashed a finger between a pair of 45 pound plates." OK. - Robert Scoble
Clearly your definition of 'good conversation' needs revision. If you think that a conversation cannot be 'good' unless it makes you smarter than you have a worldview that's much too small. Yes, that's RAPatton with the smashed finger. If you knew anything about Robert then you might find that post to be significant. You might learn something about Robert and the many, many physical trials he's had to endure in his life. - Jim Addz No Value
Smart is not in what information you get, who you talk to. Smart is in how you use the information you get, - Brian Sullivan
Let us not pretend that twitter is not full of inanities. It's not format, it's users. If you want conversations, start some. - Jeremy (on vacation)
+++Brian - Melanie Reed
Robert, thank you for sharing that information about smashing up one's fingers. Just the meme presenting itself into my conscientiousness so that it may be drawn up in some future potential accident with my hands may indeed help me by association to avoid it! :) It's not all useless. - Melanie Reed
Jim: I don't want to talk about everything in the world that's happening to everyone. Maybe you want to talk about Tiger Woods and his problems or how someone smashed their fingers, but I don't. I'm looking for something smarter. - Robert Scoble
Your request appears to be best handled by Google Wave these days since it is easy to lose threads in most other tools. - Roney Smith
No Robert you are looking for something Techier which coincidentally does not equal smarter.. Different yes, smarter no. You are starting to act like that annoying person who keeps going to parties just to complain about everything. If you don't want to be here don't be here. I'm getting tired of your weekly friendfeed is dead bash on friendfeed thread. - Rasmus Lauridsen
robert, what someone... (perhaps louis gray?)... could make is a lazy feed for friendfeed-style conversations. what do you think? - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
Google Wave is 100x more noisy and less useful than FriendFeed ever was. - Robert Scoble
Rasmus: no, that isn't true. I read a wide variety of things. For instance, world news: http://twitter.com/scoblem... - Robert Scoble
If you read that it's more focused and makes you smarter. Here? I don't find I'm getting smarter. I find I'm spending time having fun, maybe, but not getting smarter. - Robert Scoble
Robert -- sometimes I think you are just full of it. Have you ever actually used Google Wave? - Brian Sullivan
Brian: yes. I have hundreds of conversations open in Wave and it totally sucks. If you get value out of it you must either have only a very small group of people you collaborate with (I don't have that luxury) or you must be a better person than I am. - Robert Scoble
Robert you could not have missed my point more than you did. I'm done though... sorry. I like you but you just do not get it. - Jim Addz No Value
MIT Courseware is a good place to go to get smarter Robert... http://ocw.mit.edu/ --- since when has FF been a place to go to get smarter... twitter sure isn't doing that either is it? - Chris Heath
Wave is not for conversations it is for collaboration -- so what you are saying is the way you use it it sucks -- maybe because you don't know how to use it? - Brian Sullivan
Pffft. Not only do most conversations on here or Twitter not make you smarter, some actually cost you money: "Scoble is an egotistical fatso." - WorldofHiglet
Brian: even if you know how to use it it becomes noisy very quickly and you can't easily get back to the value that someone left in a long thread. OK, I guess from your message that you only have five people in your Wave. Then it's OK. - Robert Scoble
Well, some of the stories on that list will probably help expand one's way of thinking... but Kim Kardashian and bed picnics? Knitting Icelanders? Seems there's a relative amount of fluff on that list as well, from the brief glance I gave it. Expand your brain all you want, Robert, it's an excellent idea. But don't discount the play factor in learning... which appears to be kind of what... more... - Bette Cooper
WorldofHiglet: I just sent my $100 to the Food Bank. Was worth every penny. - Robert Scoble
Robert, if your looking to get smarter then get off the internet and go read a book. Or stay on the internet and go to websites that provided educational material. I'm so sorry that we don't provide you with the knowledge that you are seeking.... - Mathew™ one of a kind
Bette: there's always fluff. But now I don't need to dig through fluff on top of fluff. :-) Here I'm faced with both the fluff (and, sorry, compare the link above to the world news link and you'll see there's more fluff here) but here I need to deal with the conversation fluff too. - Robert Scoble
When my brother decides to step in the poo, he certainly splashes it all over. - Alex Scoble
Jim: whatever. You obviously get value out of this kinds of conversation. I don't. - Robert Scoble
Alex: I love giving people here what they want: a conversation. :-) - Robert Scoble
Mathew: I read books too (even have a Kindle so I can buy most anybook and read it immediately), but they make me smart about something that happened 12 months ago (or longer). - Robert Scoble
Robert, this isn't the kind of conversation that most of us are looking for. We are looking for fun or meaningful conversation. This here, is accomplishing anything more then wasting time. - Mathew™ one of a kind
Ok Robert I feel I need a disclaimer here... I was one of the Scobleites that followed you here, I stayed around though since I found it interesting. But yes you gathered a list on world media, that list though is not you or your conversations.... But look at your twitter feed, your conversations are 90%+ tech. - Rasmus Lauridsen
So where's the guy who wondered where all the conversations have gone? Look at this one... the fine art of avoiding heavy objects, and how to fling poo in a civilized manner. Now that's a conversation! :D - Bette Cooper
Is this your monthly Friendfeed slam? If so, thanks, see you in January. - Kenton
Looking to get smarter, or looking to feel superior? I'm allergic to condescension and this post almost killed me :P - Lo
Lo: :-) - Robert Scoble
Lo: the thing is the traffic here has NOT been going up and I'm trying to communicate why. Most people look at FriendFeed and don't see the conversations. Then, if they do find the conversations they see a bunch of noise. FriendFeed is fun for my brother, but not for people like me who are looking for something more specific. - Robert Scoble
Rasmus: my output is mostly tech, because that's mostly what I want to talk about, yes. But my inbound is much wider than that. - Robert Scoble
I think the specificity is really where it is at. FF is many things. Specific ain't it. - Jeremy (on vacation)
Good luck finding what you are looking for on Twitter. - Alex Scoble
Alex: I already found it on Twitter. It's easy with lists. - Robert Scoble
So Robert, in order for some of us to actually learn something; What do you, or any of us, gain by you coming here periodically and posting what is wrong with Friendfeed and the community? It seems to me that if you are looking for intelligent conversation you wouldn't just troll for comments, you'd actually start something worthwhile. - Kenton
Kenton: it's fun. Oh, so you are admitting that some conversations are more fun for you than others? EXACTLY MY POINT! - Robert Scoble
And I keep coming here, seeing the noise, and it makes me grumpy. Just like I'm making YOU grumpy! :-) - Robert Scoble
Why does it make you grumpy? Because you see it as noise and others don't? - Bette Cooper
Bette: yes. I see noise and not much signal. Makes me grumpy. But, worse, it explains why traffic numbers here have gone down. - Robert Scoble
Kenton: and, as for starting something, I've already done that: my own filtered feed: http://twitter.com/scoblei... -- I wish I could do something like this here, but FriendFeed never got to it. - Robert Scoble
TRAFFIC has not gone down! Traffic has gone up! Us American folks don't make a website! The people of the world make a website! - Mathew™ one of a kind
The reason it makes me grumpy is that I don't appreciate people who drive by and fling insults and tell us all that we're doing something wrong. The community here on Friendfeed works for the people who want it to work. If you're only doing it so you can have fun, have it at someone else's expense. Oh, here's a list of all the conversations (5 tweets or more) on Twitter. Oh, wait, how do I do that? How about Facebook? Oh, hmmm, can't do that there either. - Kenton
Mathew: that doesn't match the statements I've seen from traffic sites. Would love to see URLs proving traffic has gone up. - Robert Scoble
Isn't becoming better a nobler goal than being smarter? Smarter as a goal is solipsistic. Better as a goal encourages well roundedness and non means oriented connections with other people. - Todd Hoff
Kenton: it takes two people to have a conversation. If you don't like the insults, don't pay attention to them! - Robert Scoble
hmmm one man's turd is another mans gold... As I said before why do you come here if you don't like it and it makes you grumpy. To me that sounds quite masochistic... How are we to gauge your conversations? Conversation by definition takes two.. So what comes in through your lists can't exactly be said to be conversations you are taking part of. Your feed on the other hand can... - Rasmus Lauridsen
Todd: that's cool, but I'm already listening to 1,300 on Facebook, 16,000 on Twitter, and something like 15,000 here. How many more voices do I need to listen to before I become "better?" Me? I'm ready to narrow my focus to people who are actually teaching me something and making my life more interesting. - Robert Scoble
He likes the site. That's thing. He can't put it down. - Jeremy (on vacation)
Here you go. http://www.alexa.com/siteinf... Now I do want to say that traffic does go up and down. But, it is easy to see that Friendfeed is on a upward trend. - Mathew™ one of a kind
Rasmus: I keep getting pulled back here because some of you take my name in vain. - Robert Scoble
LOL@egotisticalfattie - Jeremy (on vacation)
Mathew: Alexa is well known to be very inaccurate. Quantcast is the one that most people use as real numbers. - Robert Scoble
As noted earlier, also seems language is proximate fundamental limiting factor. Really need Ubiquity add-on or some similar magic to do on the fly translation, (think Aunt Rosy Wavebot style). Seems next major limiting factor on expanding knowledge and integration of global cognition grid is language. This is fundamentally doable with today's tools, but nobody seems focused on making it happen in a way that we can all start teaching the GCG how to translate more accurately, understand slang, etc. - michael silverton
Well, when I goto Quantcast and see "rough estimate" that doesn't work for me. I want to see something that looks solid. But, whatever, I'm done. No one is going to satisfy you with whatever they bring to you. - Mathew™ one of a kind
Jeremy: truth is, I do like the site, but haven't liked it as much lately because everytime I come here I see noise, even on the lists I hand made. - Robert Scoble
No, you haven't found it on Twitter because it's not possible to have conversations on Twitter. And I doubt it will ever be possible. Twitter is like the modern equivalent of beepers. There's nothing there. Seriously. - Alex Scoble
Mathew: 20% of traffic comes from Turkey. I could care less about traffic there. - Robert Scoble
Robert: Funny thing is I like what you do on twitter, I even follow most of your lists on there, but the persona showing up here seems so very different. - Rasmus Lauridsen
Alex: really? I have conversations all the time on Twitter. I post a URL to my blog and on my blog I have Disqus, which lets me have conversations. Or, we link here, like we do for Gillmor Gang. - Robert Scoble
"How many more voices do I need to listen to before I become "better?" - is better defined by information absorbed or actions of quality taken? - Todd Hoff
I use FriendFeed to start smart conversations - I don't need to find ones to join, but there are those, too. I post them to Twitter, then continue them over here. - Jesse Stay
You may careless about the traffic there. But those who own and run Friendfeed care about ALLLLLLLLLLL traffic, not just US based traffic. - Mathew™ one of a kind
Alex, Twitter can be the start of the conversation. - Paul Harvey
Todd: Better is hard to define. Some people think better is having Turkish conversations. I don't. - Robert Scoble
I call it weeding the wheat from the chaff, Robert. FF is an excellent place for relaxing, for finding stimulating tidbits that lead to other things... and for getting a good laugh after a hard day. Oh... and for taking your name in vain... you make it far too easy. :-p Dude, you get what you give. The way it works. You want good stuff, give it. You want laughs, don't ever change.... more... - Bette Cooper
Mathew: the people who own and run FriendFeed don't care about FriendFeed. They run a little site named Facebook. You might have heard of it. - Robert Scoble
I've had some great conversations with David Recordon, Chris Messina, Dewitt Clinton, Cristo, Otto, Stephen Mack, Atul, Steve Gillmor, and more and I don't have to worry about losing the organization of the conversation over here. There's still nothing better, but it's your responsibility to make those conversations happen. I can't do what I can here over on Twitter. - Jesse Stay
That's bitterness speaking. - Jeremy (on vacation)
By definition you aren't having conversations on Twitter. I get way more participation here than I ever will on Twitter even though I'm sending the same stuff there. Twitter just sucks. There's no way for you to say that it doesn't. It's popular, but that in no way shape or form makes it a viable alternative to friendfeed. - Alex Scoble
You may think that but I don't. And unless you can show be proof to support your statement then I'm not changing my mind. Because if they didn't care about Friendfeed it all it wouldn't be here. - Mathew™ one of a kind
Jesse: true. That's why I link to the Gillmor Gang over on Twitter (I link here). - Robert Scoble
Alex: you're just as delusional as me. It's a Scoble trait! :-) - Robert Scoble
Most normal people would say we're both wrong and they point to Facebook as proof. - Robert Scoble
It's incredibly hard to talk intelligently in 140 characters, and even harder when the conversation isn't organized. - Jesse Stay
Jesse: when I need more than 140 characters I blog and post a URL. It works. :-) - Robert Scoble
You know what, I'm hiding this post. I'm done, because all it is doing is angering me and wasting my time. - Mathew™ one of a kind
I have intelligent conversations on Facebook as well - see a few of the conversations (not near as many as here) over at http://facebook.com/stay - Jesse Stay
Mathew: now you know why I bitch. I come here, see all sorts of noise and it makes me angry so I lash out. - Robert Scoble
Robert, but your blog doesn't thread underneath the Tweet like my responses do here. If I need anything longer than this, then yes, I blog. - Jesse Stay
Jesse: Facebook is definitely becoming more interesting. - Robert Scoble
If we have to supplement a program to crutch its handicaps, then it is time to stop using the broken program. - Jeremy (on vacation)
Jeremy: I tried for 18 months to get everyone to use FriendFeed. I failed and will continue to do so because most people don't want to have conversations with people they don't know. That's the secret sauce on Facebook. You know everyone you talk with (mostly). - Robert Scoble
Twitter has its place as well - don't get me wrong, and there are many smart people there to learn from, but as far as continuing that conversation, I can have much more intelligent conversation here than I can there. I wish more people used a combination of the two, or at least turned on e-mails so they get responses to their FriendFeed shares. - Jesse Stay
Jesse: email bacn is horrid. I turn off email notification from all social sites. - Robert Scoble
Sounds to me like you need to prune your feed again Robert so you only get the stuff you like, in the language you like from the countries you like. - Rasmus Lauridsen
"Better is hard to define" - Better in this context is your personal goals, that is being smarter, not the thread language choices :-) - Todd Hoff
maybe FF'ers are a bunch of know-it-all type of people.,.... therefore they need not get smarter ;) - Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
hey everyone... forget this nonsense... watch the TWiT holiday special with Coulton and Hodgman - http://friendfeed.com/twit-co... - Chris Heath
Gotta run, gang. Keep up the great work. I'm trying to make this Mozilla Raindrop thing work http://mozillalabs.com/raindro... -- YAARF? (Yet Another Aspiring Relevance Filter) Feedly's doing great, but needs Open Calais rockin' and aforementioned realtime translation. ;-) Onward! - michael silverton
Jeff: heheh. - Robert Scoble
Robert, FriendFeed replies aren't bacon - it's the only way I can stay organized. - Jesse Stay
Jesse: I would get too many of them to make them at all useful. - Robert Scoble
Robert, understood, but most people wouldn't, and should keep it enabled. Or find some way to know when people are responding to their posts. - Jesse Stay
Anyway, I just checked out the link here again that I started this whole conversation out with and, boy, is it exciting! Not. Oh well, see ya again soon for more self loathing. - Robert Scoble
Robert, sounds like you need to set up some lists ;-) The guys I named are a good start. - Jesse Stay
The other thing that doesn't make sense with this conversation is you couldn't even do the search you did on Twitter. What would Twitter return if you could track responses to original Tweets that are greater than 5? - Jesse Stay
Jesse: one of the major reasons I keep coming back here is for the search. Twitter is rebuilding its search from scratch, so it'll be interesting to watch in 2010 (so is Facebook, btw). - Robert Scoble
Jesse: I spent hundreds of hours organizing my lists here on FriendFeed. I find all I need to do is track you because you get involved in almost every interesting tech conversation here. - Robert Scoble
They'll need to implement threaded conversations for a search like that to work. I'm listening though. - Jesse Stay
Well thanks Robert - I use it as a tool. I wouldn't be using it if I didn't find it productive, which is why I get involved in interesting conversations. You know all this stuff better than I though so I know I don't need to convince you. - Jesse Stay
Worried about getting smarter? Read a book. *says the Librarian, in a "the more you know" voice ;) - Archangel ωαřмaiden
Archangel: books are nice for knowledge that's 12 months old (or older). It takes that long to publish the damn things. - Robert Scoble
true. but it's a good in-depth supplement to the quick-hits of 140-character discussions. Plus, political theory - what's currently on the nightstand - isnt exactly on an expiration date (not often at least). ;) - Archangel ωαřмaiden
Twitter Trending Topics... Thanks for playing... - Johnny Worthington from iPhone
For the record, twitter trending topics are #oneofmyfollowers , #ghettobabynames , #nowplaying , #thoushallnot , Jersey Shore , #p4a , Colts , #DavidArchuletaLive , Xmas , #omgfacts - Bruce Lewis
Robert, if Jesse's in all the conversations interesting to you, just save this search: https://friendfeed.com/search... - Bruce Lewis
My eyes sorta glazed over about half way down this thread, sorry... but I just wanted to correct something mentioned above about "traffic" being up. Alexa says "Reach" is up but "Pageviews" are down about 20% since August http://www.alexa.com/siteinf... And that's global stats. US only is a whole 'nother conversation. Whether "traffic" is up or down depends on how you define traffic... and what you're trying to prove. - Ken Sheppardson
Here's what wolfram|alpha says http://friendfeed.com/ccheath... - Chris Heath
With each conversation, I learn a bit more about those to whom I am subscribed and I hope they learn a little something about me. I am quite happy with that. - Michael W. May
There are three major aspects of any social network: Relevancy, Technology and Community. FriendFeed has the best technology, period. The community is also excellent. The difference here is that it has changed from 12 months ago or 24 months ago. When I visit FriendFeed, I am not looking for the deep technical conversations we used to have because the community more accurately reflects... more... - Louis Gray
For Robert, who is a good guy even though at times he can be misunderstood or frustrating, this change in community has decreased the site's relevancy. Couple that with an unclear future, and he is doing what is right for him. I could make some quip about how Robert needs to get smarter more than most of us, but I won't. :) - Louis Gray
Louis, has the community changed or has just a section left? I see people from 18 months ago and my feed hasn't changed much in that time. - Johnny Worthington from iPhone
Johnny, without invalidating the above, I would suggest that you are part of the "new-ish" community that joined after FriendFeed's initial 6+ months. Yes, many of the people Robert and I consider peers and friends who used to engage in the deeper tech talk here have left, but other great folks like you made the place a whole lot of fun. You just have to see what I like or comment on to... more... - Louis Gray
So it has become a little bit more social media than social media... - Johnny Worthington from iPhone
Yes Louis we all get that... What we don't get is why he keeps returning just to lay a brown one every two, three weeks. If he doesn't like it here, he doesn't have to say so again and again. He can just mosey along and think back on the good times. Being the "biggest fanboy" does not give you the right to then come back and be annoying after leaving. We all heard him the first time, if not second or third.. - Rasmus Lauridsen
Rasmus, I am explaining the behavior, not endorsing it. :) - Louis Gray
I know Louis :-) - Rasmus Lauridsen
I don't understand why you think that social networking sites that encourage people to post all the small mundane things in their life is the place to go to find an abundance of intelligent tech discussions. I would think a busy forum whose focus is on tech, inhabited by intelligent people, would be a better place to find what you are looking for. For me that happens to be the forum at... more... - April Russo (app103)
Good recommendation, April - thanks! - WorldofHiglet
michael silverton (way up this thread ^ ), you mentioned on-the-fly translation tools? - I created them (not in Ubiquity, but Greasemonkey/Greasekit): http://translatorize.com - implemented for Friendfeed, Facebook, Twitter and Identi.ca - Micah Wittman
Back when Robert was 'getting value' out of FF, he mentioned it (the first implementation was for Friendfeed): http://friendfeed.com/fftrans... .... hey, the Scobleizer blog post link is dead! So by my count: Friendfeed *not* dead, blog post dead (Seriously, I looked in the archives, Robert, but I don't see it? Did some stuff get lost when the site was hacked months back?) - Micah Wittman
Micah, I linked to it from my "FriendFeed's Fine" post - it's here: http://scobleizer.com/2009... - Jesse Stay
Jesse, you're checking the wrong one. It's http://scobleizer.com/2009... - Micah Wittman
Oh, you're talking about one of the ones where he said it wasn't dying. A lot of that stuff got deleted when he was hacked, which is probably the case for that one. - Jesse Stay
*slow-mo-facepalm* - Micah Wittman
Why not look to exercise your brain at least rather than having to get "smarter"? - Michelle Matthews
unexpected connections is what make your brain expand, hearing the same stuff from the same people is enervating... - WarLord
what a noisy dumb post - james
Oh vey. It is what it is fluid and alive. :-) - Mathew A. Koeneker
This thread isn't making me any smarter ;) - Jason Williams from iPhone
FriendFeed has evolved, just like every other site out there. Perhaps at one time, it was a forum for techies. Now, not so much. You and those techies went somewhere else to fill that info void. Meanwhile, others joined FF for the social interaction. Not understanding why you keep coming back here to stir the pot. It's not for you any more. That's fine. Let it go. There are discussions here; they just aren't topics in which you're interested. I read lots of spirited political discussions. >>> - rowlikeagirl
As for the bigger picture, I'm seeing FF turn into another aggregation site. Not a criticism, just an observation. ((((returns to watching Turkish animated GIFs))) - rowlikeagirl
FF for me, is a way to get away from "learning" yet another "thing"...to learn even one thing takes a lifetime...the intellectuals need to lighten up maybe and have a bit of fun? if not, FF is not for them... - sally stokhamer
Robert , indeed,you shouldn't be in need to look smarter.I ,and many of your followers think you are smart.Here's what you read : @scoblemedia/world-news-brands .Some more can be added to this list.But your time will not be enough.Keep up the good work please...Thank You,and Best Wishes... - Dedegi
I just ate a mango. The problem of infinitely multiplying narcissistic minutiae in social media. The solution: ultra-smart news filters and recommender systems. (And a big wave to Akiva Moskovitz, my biggest fan on Friendfeed.) - Sean McBride
News recommender systems: what are the most important remarks made by the most important people on the topics I most care about? Sort them by priority, please. One wishes that Friendfeed had taken an interest in this technology but, alas, no. - Sean McBride
"I can always make you smile" http://i171.photobucket.com/albums... :) - Citronella
Public conversations of every conceivable variety should be able to coexist comfortably in social media space, without any conversation impinging on any other conversation. What we need are the software tools to discover, prioritize and manage those conversations that are most interesting to each of us individually. There is really not much point in complaining about conversations that are not interesting -- simply don't pay attention to them. - Sean McBride
" I wish there were a filter for smart conversations because most of these are, while entertaining, not making me smarter about anything" ~ http://news.ycombinator.com - Peter Renshaw
Robert, I have taken it upon myself to help grant you your wish with this hashtag: #HelpRobertScobleGetSmarter - April Russo (app103)
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
AT&T Has Spent Less on Network Upgrades Since The iPhone Launch - http://www.iphonealley.com/current...
AT&T Has Spent Less on Network Upgrades Since The iPhone Launch
AT&T Has Spent Less on Network Upgrades Since The iPhone Launch
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