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TWiL: Denise Howell

Live chat for TWiL 29 with Evan Brown, Colette Vogele, and Ernie Svenson - what's on your mind?

September 11 - Comment - Like - Share

can you add a direct link? thx D! - jeneane sessum

5 more comments

Hi J! Um, to what? - Denise Howell

The video? http://live.twit.tv - Denise Howell

hey guys, first time listening (new zealands internet it to expensive to stream for to long) who's in the twit irc chat room and did i see someone with a logitech clearchat pro mic ? - Adam Cooksley

welcome adam; not my mic, maybe one of the headsets - Denise Howell

is the itunes 9 tos going to be talked about? - Adam Cooksley

I haven't looked at it yet; what issue is there? - Denise Howell

Anthony Citrano

Scoble’s No Internet Anonymity Rule - http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r...

July 19, 2008 from The Cosmic Tap - Comment - Like - Share

Morton Fox, Jimminy, Tim and 22 other people liked this

Or, what I think about it. - Anthony Citrano

55 more comments

I would rather everyone be anonymous than no one. - jeneane sessum

Gerard: as I said in the other thread this would be impossible to enforce so I wouldn't worry about it too much. - Robert Scoble

I commented on your blog: I think anonymity is both a horrible thing and a great tool, it depends on how it's used. In some countries complete anonymity is needed, otherwise they would be put to death or jail. I find its far more respectable when someone puts a real name and face to their opinion, though it isnt always needed. - Colby Olson

Robert: I just think it's interesting that you want to abolish anonymity, that in itself is an odd thing to say, I suppose. Perhaps you could explain your reasoning? - Colby Olson

Robert I think we all realize it would not be enforceable but what I'm going after is the idea behind it - that *were it enforceable*, it would be a good thing. To me, the underlying idea that anonymous speech is a bad thing and should be eliminated is rather authoritarian and terrifying. - Anthony Citrano

Colby: everything that I have seen negative on the Internet is due to anonymity. Can you link to one positive thing? Mini Microsoft but even that would be much better if the guy who wrote it would sign his name. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: well, I don't see it as a good thing. I have freedom of speech already and would die to defend that. Anonymity is for cowards. - Robert Scoble

Robert, speaking out on the internet against oppressive governments is not a bad thing. And as I have stated previously, many revolutions start in anonymity. Again, rules of absolutism don't allow for both sides. Anonymity is a tool and it can be used for good and bad. - Tim Finucane

Kind of a night of drastic comments from the Scobleizer, huh?? Everything negative on the internet is due to anonymity. Yikes thats a whole new round of overstatement. I love following you Robert and agree way more often than not but that's silly. - Cody Heitschmidt

tim: what revolution started with anonymity? Certainly NOT the American one. - Robert Scoble

It most definitely did start with secret meetings. The crown didn't know identities until after things got under way. - Tim Finucane

Robert: You just spawned numerous blog posts and threads with that one. I agree with you up to a point. One of the two that I have blocked on FF was determined to be a troll and supposedly anon. However, there are many countries that speaking up and signing on the dotted line will get both your head and hand chopped off. - Mathew A. Koeneker

Cody is right. I did overstate that and I am sorry about that. - Robert Scoble

Robert... i would follow you into the fire.. and here is why we all follow you: Your are passionate. Sometimes it gets in your way because you overstate things but then you admit you are wrong. A guy with 30,000 followers could be big headed enough not to admit something he said wasn't quite right. It's cool that a little guy in Ks can make a contrary statement at you and not just get blocked and you roll over him. Now admit you were wrong on the rule against anonymity too. lol just kidding. - Cody Heitschmidt

The Internet is and should be about choice. You should be able to choose your level of anonymity. It is not one shoe fits all. - Jauder Ho

Robert -- There is legitimate reason for anon speech, especially on the internet. What I think you really want is a "Personal Global Internet Filter" that allows the removal of the ugliest side-effects. Even looking to the American revolution, pen names and aliases were used countless times by the likes of Thomas Jefferson, et al. There is a legitimate purpose to it... the statement that no revolution was started by anonymous is a bit of a stretch. - Mark Philpot

There are a ton of reasons for a person to use a pseudonym on the internet. Especially when you look at people in other countries who can only speak by being "nameless". I even have reasons for using a name that isn't my real name. - Candace

Don't admit you were wrong on the rule unless you believe it... until you believe ! hehe lol Great freaking discussion who started this whole mess with the rule comment? - Cody Heitschmidt

I believe it was started by Robert's response to Laura Fitton's question: "What one "rule" would you make about the Internet?" - Tim Finucane

i'm sorry he's wrong or right depending i've been batting this question lately and i use the internet not to shield who i am but to get people to talk to me who wouldn't do to disability. and if i ever meet any net folks in RL my hope is that they will be over it quicker due to knowing I'm capable and cool to begin with - Cecil Sandus

To all those under pseudonyms: Why? Are you truly in fear of reprisal? @Dtrizzle a link to your blog profile quickly reveals you. @Corvida do you have a reason? - Mathew A. Koeneker

@Robert Scoble (scobleizer): What's so negative about my blog? Well, other than the fact that I don't apply myself. Sorry, there've been too many firings and too many "we won't hire you" situations because of uptight control freaks in power who can't stand employees who have their own minds. Anyone who really desires it can find out who MiniMage is, but I feel the better for not broadcasting my real name, and so do my parents. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF from NoiseRiver

well said Mage - Cecil Sandus

One rule for the internet is that all data is equal. The second rule is that there are no other rules. I think Scoble's idea of not anonymity is becoming more a reality with people's lives becoming intertwined with their online identity. I would like to preserve anonymity for whistle blowers, etc. Anonymity is a tool that can be used or abused. - Erik Weese

Pseudonyms mean nothing. People do find out who you are. I spent two days in a courtroom reading my blog entries aloud that were posted under a pseudonym. If you don't want people to read what you write, buy a pen and a blank journal and stick it under your mattress. - Trish R

MiniMage many many more people have been hired for their blogs than fired for them and I can't think of an instance where someone who was fired wasn't behaving stupidly. We have a whole chapter in our book about that. - Robert Scoble

yes Dtrizzle that makes sense to me and Trish as for your idea it's an oldie but a goodie... - Cecil Sandus

corvida isn't anonymous. I have talked with her on the phone. Minimicrosoft is pretty anonymous but I know at least one person who knows who he is. - Robert Scoble

Dtrizzle - The bit on your educational background while perfect for a resume can provide an easy way to start skip-tracing you. Not that I am. Just one of the little tricks I learned where tech meets accounting. - Mathew A. Koeneker

it is amazing the conversations that can start with a simple word or two. I am at a wedding with people who have left Iran to get the freedom of speech so understand well the problems with using your real name. One guy here was in Iranian prisons for years. He is not afraid to stand up in public against injustice. - Robert Scoble

@Robert Scoble (scobleizer): Do you remember the Chronicle of Higher Education article where someone talked about being on an interview committee? These EDUCATED folks attitudes were explained thus, "Several committee members expressed concern that a blogger who joined our staff might air departmental dirty laundry (real or imagined) on the cyber clothesline for the world to see. Past... more... - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF from NoiseRiver

Scoble I think he was referring to the fact that I don't use my real name online at all. As for the person who asked why, because I don't want people Googling me. I like to keep my personal life separate from my online life. Same person, different interactions and I don't want them overlapping in any way, shape, or form. - Corvida

@Corvida - Why keep yourself so fragmented? Then you have to remember who you with whom. I am with Robert for the most part on this one. You instantly gain more respect from me if your are proud enough of your name to attribute ALL of your actions whether in the VW or RW to it. You are an American are you not? Unless, you have a TS like my folks then who or what are you hiding from. Telling me that it is just a personal choice is a cop out. @Dtrizzle gives some valid rationale for his decision. - Mathew A. Koeneker

There are certain place on the net that you NEED anonymity !! Take a look at some Forums that ONLY focus on vulnerability disclosures. Each and every one of them is only known by a handle. Chances that you actually associate a handle w/ real name /face is near impossible. - Peter Dawson

I could argue the same. Most in my situation do take that approach. My disease is just that a disease. It is what it is. Like I commented earlier there can be valid reasons; I just wanted to hear Corvida's rationale both from a personal interest as she is just another human being as well as from the pov of the well known blogger. - Mathew A. Koeneker

Interesting convo. I actually talked to Mark Hopkins about this. He brought his anon handle into his identity. I've kept mine apart. I don't agree with no one being anonymous; I happily existed online for years and can still write about personal issues and my children without compromising their (or my) privacy. - Cyndy

I vote for anonymity. If you are anonymous and threatening though, realize that I also support using every tracking method possible to make a community safer. People can not yell "FIRE" in a crowded room. I can not call my neighbor a "RAPIST" just because I feel like it. Regulated Free Speech is ok. Unregulated free speech is not, just as I can not go around town physically hitting anyone I want to ("Freedom of Action"). - Mitchell Tsai

The vast majority of my college friends (Harvard 1982-89, age 40-50) are still petrified of Facebook due to Corvida's concerns - and I have mostly techy friends. There are discussions on our alumni boards (on & off Facebook) about all the potential career dangers. About 30-40% of my college friends are on LinkedIn because they understand resumes & how you can control the presentation of... more... - Mitchell Tsai

P.S. I've spoken with Corvida on the phone also. We were going to visit Georgia Tech together, but plans didn't work out (and my college friend who's a professor there turned out to be out-of-town also). Bummer. - Mitchell Tsai

Assume ANYTHING you e-mail, post on the Internet, or say on a phone is recorded somewhere and scanned for verbal/textual keywords. My first company is now partially owned by the C... and we process information to find ter...... Over 10 years ago (1992-98), I attended academic data-mining conferences where people from the phone company presented the algorithms they were using to scan... more... - Mitchell Tsai

“regulated free speech”, Mitchell? Can you be serious? - Anthony Citrano

Yep. - Mitchell Tsai

well i think the concept is absurd, myself. but i'm out. also, why post 5-6 messages in a row instead of 1? it's messy and inelegant. - Anthony Citrano

Paragraph marks in a comment would work too. I don't like how everything runs together in one comment... - Mitchell Tsai

@Robert people tend to act differently online than they do in real-life, anonymous or not. They perceive a disconnect between their online profile and life. Makes people be more direct, confrontational, and sometimes hostile. They don't feel bound by the same social rules (have respect for each other). - Alexander van Elsas

I can fully understand that some wish to be anonymous on the web. But thinking that the things you do online are disconnected from your offline life is stupid. I am not anonymous online and I am aware that my interactions are always visible. - Alexander van Elsas

Resurrected because of this: http://friendfeed.com/rww... - Anthony Citrano

I'll just add here that I don't agree that we should chop off our whole arm but if someone can point the finger and label me negatively knowing full well that I am public and not hiding behind a fake avatar, I should be able to see who is doing the labeling and so should the community since the insult was brought to the community's attention by the hiding labeler/harasser. We should... more... - Jeunelle Foster

Even aside from my opinion that the Imus thing was a bunch of BS from a clueless Outrage Nation, I disagree that providers ought strip away anonymity every time someone's feelings get hurt. - Anthony Citrano

My rule would be no obnoxious bloggers. - Cristo

There are good (edit: adequate) legal processes for handling truly abusive cases. - LogEx

This is a long thread and I may have missed it in a later response, but what about people finding you in person through the internet? I play WoW and my guild leader was stalked by someone who knew only her first name, state, and profession. He called her and flew to her area to find her. This is just a simple case of a nut job, but the internet is full of them. When you bring other countries, with less freedom into the mix things just get messier. - Heather

The thing is, he never defined his terms either. Is creating a bogus account and logging in through a proxy for a one-time flame the same as using a long-term pseudonym for mostly constructive purposes? I think not. There are so many good and valid reasons for not living completely transparently. - LogEx

@Anthony it's your opinion that you found the Imus thing BS and I'm not talking about when people's feelings get hurt, I disagree in cases where someone can get physically hurt, here is an example. Blogcatalog was in heat a few months ago when some of these members who I see as negative while hiding behind fake persona, fake avatars, hiding their Ip addresses and whois information took... more... - Jeunelle Foster

WOW. I was trying to figure out why I had this pop up from a year ago. I still pretty much side with The Scoblezier with a few exceptions. If you are blogging, chatting, or even surfing on-line....odds are pretty good that a determined individual or govt entity can find you out. You may think that you are "anon" but in reality you are not at all. Plus, I have a lot less respect for folks esp in this country that are unwillling to put their real names in their posts. - Mathew A. Koeneker

I didn't feel like cutting and pasting so sorry. But if you think that your on-life persona is somehow sacred and secure from your real life identity then you have some harsh realities to wake up to. This is the information age people. - Mathew A. Koeneker

Brad Williamson to Brad's feed, Media News and Analysis, RWW: The Future of Tech, building43, TheNextWeb Forum

You are looking at the VERY FIRST photo ever published on the web! SERIOUSLY! - http://musiclub.web.cern.ch/MusiClu...

August 4 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Robert Peña, Ritesh Lal, Morten Blaabjerg and 26 other people liked this

"Back in 1992, after their show at the CERN Hardronic Festival, my colleague Tim Berners-Lee asked me for a few scanned photos of "the CERN girls" to publish them on some sort of information system he had just invented, called the "World Wide Web". I had only a vague idea of what that was, but I scanned some photos on my Mac and FTPed them to Tim's now famous "info.cern.ch". How was I to know that I was passing an historical milestone, as the one above was the first picture ever to be clicked on in a web browser!"" - Brad Williamson from Bookmarklet

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Join us in the "Media News and Analysis" group as we examine the world's main source of information and entertainment, The Media ;-) http://friendfeed.com/media-n... - Brad Williamson

Not a LOLcat? *mind blown* - Mo Kargas

Why do most women insist on doing the cheerleader pose for group photos? Are they TRYING to show cleavage? If that's the reason, then I'm cool with it. - Brad Williamson

we show our heads because that's where our brains are: http://www.jeneane.net/wp-cont... - jeneane sessum

I think I'd take exception to "most women." I'd bet the majority of photos - by far - are not in this pose. The ones that are just get more attention. [A funny corollary to Jeneane's statement might be: we show our cleavage because that's where your brains are. I don't seriously think that, but it would be funny.] - Ladybug Heather

which shows at least that girls were on the web from the start ;-) - laetSgo

Karoli

Sometimes I am truly sickened by the lengths the opposition will go to. Not surprised. Just sickened.

July 30 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Michael W. May liked this

you give them way too much credit by calling them opposition - Steve Gillmor

9 more comments

it seemed better than douchebag, a term I have overused lately. - Karoli

I like douchebag - Steve Gillmor

You can always use douche for short. It has that one syllable sting to it. - jeneane sessum

true enough, and it rolls off the tongue with a pleasant finish. - Karoli

douchebag is still better - can be said on network television without bleeping - Steve Gillmor

Douchebag is more honest. - Neal Jansons

what you can say on tv these days seems to be a very fluid thing. :) doesn't matter if it's a lie or a blowjob, anything goes. - Karoli

there u go again mistaking words from douchebags for anything worth processing - Steve Gillmor

who said i thought they were worth processing? just worth countering, since the echo chamber looms long and large. - Karoli

nope, just validates their poop - Steve Gillmor

Denise Howell

Was searching for "shell" items (y'know, decorative) on Amazon; laughed hard when found this: http://www.amazon.com/gp...

July 28 - Comment - Like - Share

Adam Turetzky liked this

HO HO HO!!!!! :-) - jeneane sessum

Armed Santa - Frank Paynter

Robert Scoble

What can you learn by who people follow? I compare Twitter accounts of http://twitter.com/jeff http://friendfeed.com/timorei... http://twitter.com/notsecr... http://friendfeed.com/davew http://twitter.com/ev and discuss what I learned:

July 25 - Comment - Like - Share

Amira, xold account, Matthew Moroz and 37 other people liked this

@jeff is Jeff Clavier, well known Silicon Valley Venture Capitalist. @timoreilly is Tim OReilly who runs O'Reilly Publishing. @davewiner is Dave Winer is a famous developer/innovator. @ev is Evan Williams, Twitter CEO. @notsecretscoble is my account where I've hand picked about 800 to follow. - Robert Scoble

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1. Jeff is most like me. Very geeky, but he has far fewer people he's following than the others. - Robert Scoble

2. Tim O'Reilly follows lots of government people and brands, which matches what he recently told me, that he's trying to learn more about Washington DC. - Robert Scoble

Looks like this might become a compelling conversation. - David Damore

3. I also compared @ev (Ev Williams, Twitter's CEO). His used to match much more closely Dave Winer's or Tim O'Reilly's accounts, but now has many more movie stars and celebrities. - Robert Scoble

4. There are a lot of commonalities between all these accounts. - Robert Scoble

5. On my account if I couldn't tell you a story about the person, I didn't add them. Most of the people on my following account I've met face-to-face. - Robert Scoble

6. Most of the others follow a lot more brands than I do, both news brands like the New York Times, as well as other brands. I like following people more than brands. - Robert Scoble

What else would you like to know? - Robert Scoble

7. I am more convinced than every that the inbound people pay attention to DOES define who they are. - Robert Scoble

What is one insight you have pulled from those you follow? - David Damore

David: that following people you've met face-to-face is more enjoyable than following just 100,000 that you haven't met. - Robert Scoble

I agree with number 7. I also like to keep my twitter full of people I mostly know, have met or want to meet. - Luke Kilpatrick

David: and that keeping the inbound (IE, people you follow) down to people who REALLY add value to you, makes the signal MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH higher. - Robert Scoble

Your follows will be mostly US-based people, and wherever you visit, then? - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Washington DC? He picked a complicated enough place to learn about. - Dean Clark

I have two screens, one with the 100,000 and one with my 700 hand picked followings and, damn, the two aren't even close to in the same league. - Robert Scoble

be. careful. robert. all that testosterone is a DANGEROUS thing! - jeneane sessum

those 99k are a lot of extra noise... A threshold level of relevancy is hard to get from those you don't know. - David Damore

Aaman: not true. I've been all over the world and have people all over the world in my list. - Robert Scoble

Robert I agree with the face-to-face part. Thats what makes tweetups so great. You get to meet the ones you follow and vice versa. - Bryan Lee

David: yeah, but I don't think the noise is due to not having met them. It's due to something else. - Robert Scoble

David: even on my list there are some who provide GREAT value and some who just are, well, noisy. - Robert Scoble

Robert Scoble: What is that app you run that tracks your travels? Remember seeing it all the time months back. - David Damore

I like to follow people with whom I have something in common (programmers, tech people, geeks) that I can feel connected to. But I also follow a few related to my company's (GoldMail) business, and a few unrelated just because they seem interesting. Wjhat does that say about me? - RobinDotNet from iPhone

When ever I follow someone back, I usually ask is that person someone I would be interested in meeting. If the answer is no, then I don't follow. I think this idea will start to be the way that twitter evolves rather than a race to see who can get more followers. Its about engagement and value rather than a noisy number. - Luke Kilpatrick

David: I think there's an 80/20 rule going here. 20% provide 80% of the value, and the fact that there's a lot of commonality shows that most of us recognize that value pretty quickly. So there is something to popularity (real popularity, not the fake kind as granted by the Twitter Suggested User List). - Robert Scoble

David: Dopplr? If I keep it up, that is. TripIt is my favorite travel app. - Robert Scoble

If you knew them... a tweet such as... "baby is sick tonight" reaches the threshold.... so when you talk with the contact.... you can ask about the baby... The relationship takes what one person calls noise and makes it relevant information. - David Damore

RobinDotNet: I think that is a good strategy for twitter. I usually follow that same paradigm. - Bryan Lee

Yep. beleive it was Doplr. Pareto, know it well. So critical to know and understand. - David Damore

David: good point, you'll put up with more noise from people who are closer to you because that noise becomes more useful. - Robert Scoble

I don't care how many follow me. I won't follow someone just because they follow me. Lots of them are parasitic, just want something from me -- buy something or click through. - RobinDotNet from iPhone

Twitter and technology for that matter are so free flowing in how they can be used. There is no on right way to use. People need to remain flexible and adaptable to changing conditions. - David Damore

Robin: I agree with you there. On the other hand, it is interesting to see if people you like are following you. Even more importantly, do they engage with you and really read you? - Robert Scoble

David: all of the people I studied tonight had quite different lists than they had a year ago. The most different from a year ago? @ev's. - Robert Scoble

Robert: How do you gauge how those who follow you perceive you? Its a difficult task, is it not? - Bryan Lee

Bryan: get them drunk and ask. :-) - Robert Scoble

Would you say those folks are all successful? My guess is that they all are. Success like innovation is build upon leveraging changing conditions. - David Damore

Oh, people who follow more than 2,000? Useless. - Robert Scoble

LoL Nice one. - Bryan Lee

David: but the way people use technology evolves as the technology matures. There are so many different ways to use a communication tool. Twitter, and things like it are a bit of a new kind of animal versus what was there before. I personally rank twitter or friendfeed, up there with the website, the bbs and Instant Messaging as a communication media that can change in may ways. - Luke Kilpatrick

David: yes. And they all are among my favorite people to read. - Robert Scoble

Good thing I only follow 1,200 or so peeps, - David Damore

David: yeah, about 2,000 is the cut off for intimacy. I've been all over the world and met with many thousands of people and I still struggle to come up with more than that. I'm not adding everyone I've met just to try to keep noise down. - Robert Scoble

Robert, you're right, I think by "I don't care" I mean I don't follow back without checking people out, or at least read their previous tweets. I like it when people I know join Twitter, but few of my friends have. Not very geeky. One of the great things about Twitter is that I have been able to connect to so many others who are geeks, who understand why my pulse quickens when I walk into a Fry's store. :-) - RobinDotNet from iPhone

1,200? I check my list at least once a month to get rid of people and haven't really ever gone over 100 for long. - Dean Clark

I wouldn't keep up with 300 to follow, gotta work sometimes ;) - Franck Curier

Luke: whats the difference between twitter and basically "public email"? Its a communication tool that everyone can see. Thats how I perceive it, except for the DMs. - Bryan Lee

I follow more than I am followed by about a 2-1 ratio. That's because I am using Twitter to listen and engage as much, if not more, than I use Twitter to broadcast. But still, I'm close to my limit (around 1k). And I'm starting to purge those who I thought might be interesting but are just there for marketing. I'm there to learn and meet, not be sold. - AllisonWagda

Right now I'm looking at @Furrier's list. He's following 2,360, which is too many, but love that he follows PGAGolf. These things tell you a lot about a person, as much as Facebook's profile does! - Robert Scoble

I think that 250-350 reasonable twitterers works well. More if you can cut out the blabber mouths. - Sam Pullara

@Scoble: Would also apply the 80/20 to 2000. If the top 20% post all the :"great" content one could follow many more people. The problem with following more than say 800 is that you lose out on the low velocity users. For those folks it might be a better idea to set up an RSS feed for them. - David Damore

Being one of the founders, @ev should be considered differently, whenever you examine his followers list, after all most people would probably prefer getting CEO's feed, hoping to get quality info regarding Twitter. As for the rest, many people would rather prefer following quality content and engaging users, while followers "hunters" will go with everyone, because they think their voice will resonate best with bots. - Nir Ben Yona

Sam: that number will vary based on how good a networker they are. My brothers? Probably only need that many. I need more than 1,000. - Robert Scoble

Sam, how do you define blabbermouth? - RobinDotNet from iPhone

Allison: I'm a bit of a lurker as well. I learn more from twitter than I contribute but I'm trying to change that. - Bryan Lee

Bryan: 1. The 140 limit makes you be clearer in your thoughts. 2. Its a broader reach than an email. 3. The almost countless ways to consume a twitter feed on many devices. 4. Twitter is a networking tool that can get you introduced to someone in a way that email can not. I have met more and built more relationships via twitter than any other tech. - Luke Kilpatrick

Nir: knowing @ev I assume that the movie stars are there just for business reasons, not for personal reasons. I bet that if @ev wasn't running Twitter he'd be complaining about all the celebrities on Twitter. - Robert Scoble

Bryan - I didn't mean I'm quiet on Twitter - I'm *way* too social to keep my mouth shut. ;) - AllisonWagda

In a way, who you follow is a sort of gesture. I follow some people that I want to interview, or that I think will signal to the rest of you the kinds of people I want to be introduced to at parties. :-) - Robert Scoble

Luke: Those are all correct, its the next evolutionary step in communication. Just like email was over its predecessor, snail mail. - Bryan Lee

Wow, John Furrier follows all the high tech brands. He's signaling to the world that he wants to do business with them. :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert: That's interesting. Clearly, I don't have any idea about it, but I think we've all seen that implication, in Twitter's leaked documents (re: Diddy). - Nir Ben Yona

Robert, et al. - this is a great conversation! I am really thinking I need to totally clean out my follows. Signal to Noise ratio has really gotten bad, even with Tweetdeck and other tools - Susan Beebe from BuddyFeed

One thing I notice about @ev's tweets is they don't seem to be targeted for any segment of followers. Where my tweets usually fall into either Adobe Usergroups / ColdFusion / Fireworks, Social media or Surfing. Do you find that you tweet with a targeted segment of your followers in mind? - Luke Kilpatrick

Luke: with Tim O'Reilly? Absolutely. With the others there's a focus, but not as focused as Tim. - Robert Scoble

Robert: I do enjoy following Tim O'Reilly as almost all of his posts have a good and relevant link to what I am interested in. He is definitely in my want to meet someday category. - Luke Kilpatrick

Sometimes I follow someone for one reason, then find them interesting for another reason too. Luke-- would like to come watch you surf. Find it fascinating. Watched it a lot last time I was in Hawaii. - RobinDotNet from iPhone

Robin : I go out everyday almost, let me know when ever you can make the trip to Half Moon Bay. Still you never get the full feel of surfing until you do it. - Luke Kilpatrick

Luke, I'll do that! I do come over that way every now and then. Just had knee surgery, swimming forbidden for 4 months. I'd be happy to hang out on the beach in the wind and sun. Or just the wind, since a reputable source said there's no traffic in HMB unless it's sunny. - RobinDotNet from iPhone

This topic brings back to mind one feature I would like TweetDeck to provide, the ability to share groups as OPML. In my other account I receive more tweets than I can read, so my columns are organized by interest priority, I just realized that this won't help too much your analysis since Ev and Dave usually tweet from web and Jeff and Tim from Seesmic. - Alberto Saavedra

As I thought @Furrier is following a lot of dead accounts, so he isn't keeping his Following list very clean. I've found this to be true of almost every one with more than 2,000 accounts. - Robert Scoble

@Scoble: What did you use to check for "dead accounts"? - David Damore

David: manually going through each of them and seeing the last entry is "follow me over here" or seeing that they haven't updated in a year. - Robert Scoble

I am intrigued by how small the group who has influence is... It seems to be less than 50 people!! - Wayne Mansfield

Wayne: nah, it's actually a few hundred. :-) - Robert Scoble

Thought there was an app for that. - David Damore

Hi Robert. I'd be interested to know *why* your list is using Twitter - their primary purpose. Is it to sell things, because they think they should be there, to keep abreast of what others are doing, to find opportunities...all of these? None? - WorldofHiglet

WorldofHiglet: most of us started in the early days, when it was something cool to do to keep in touch with other people in the valley and SF. Now it's changed to be more business and/or building a specific kind of audience. - Robert Scoble

I think everyone uses twitter in a slightly different way, many start using it for one reason and end up with another. I started using it to keep up with Adobe Usergroup People scattered across the planet but, I find I use it more for sharing Surfing info with a collection about about 100 surfers around the world. - Luke Kilpatrick

That's what I thought, and the use seems to have changed organically. But it seems that Twitter is less relevant now to some of these early adopters. Is this because they are getting what they need (whatever that might be) from something else or is it more to do with them having changed the way they do things? - WorldofHiglet

Robert a few hundred is still not many... for the power of the medium!! - Wayne Mansfield

WorldofHiglet: a lot of the early adopters are on Facebook or FriendFeed, so their usage has spread out. But there's still a lot on Twitter. I'm watching the flow and it's going pretty good. - Robert Scoble

I agree Twitter has a lot of legs to it yet - I was thinking more that some early adopters are at the end of the user life cycle for Twitter (I was reading this earlier http://ui-patterns.com/blog... and it seemed relevant) - WorldofHiglet

I think friendfeed has captured up many of the early adopters as you can have great conversations on it like this one. It kinda reminds me of the old days of IRC, but with a more focused topic and engaged group. Also much more open with peoples real identities rather than anonymous user names. I like how more people are willing to user their real identity online now. - Luke Kilpatrick

I'm a big @davewiner fan! - Amir from iPod

Luke, I think Shane made a good point regarding the basic difference between FF comments and IRC back on another thread with, "live commenting on a blog or FF doesn't necessarily demand all attention like IRC or IM would tend to make you feel you have to stay participating. Remember, some people still have fun with the conversation and add value even though they don't realize it's live" http://friendfeed.com/scoblei... - Micah Wittman

@Luke: I still love IRC, primarily because it's much smaller groups, much less noise, and you can get to know people much better. I think IRC will always be my first love when it comes to real-time online communication with a group. I always felt like Twitter was broken compared to IRC, because it was like people were there but not there and it's not the same crowd for everyone there,... more... - April Russo (app103)

I just find that IRC can be random and reasonably exclusive. I have pretty much stopped using IRC about 8 years ago when most of the people I regularly communicated moved over to instant messaging. Friendfeed is bringing back the public face of IRC, but with the longer term archive of the conversation that is lost on IRC. Every tech has its strengths and weaknesses. Just like I tell most of the fan boys I meet, I use the best tool I can find for the job at hand. - Luke Kilpatrick

Luke: I totally agree with you. I used to be a heavy IRC user. I will +NEVER+ go back. - Robert Scoble

Robert, One of the things that is interesting about what you put out with this discussion is how radically different approaches and methodology can still present specific results based on search and keyword approaches. In this case, each user demonstrates to the rest of us how to exactly get what you want out of twitter, and for that matter friendfeed and facebook too. - Alan W Silberberg

I really wish that FriendFeed was threaded so we could really have this conversation as it is interesting and I'd like to engage with it... however, this endless list of comments is terrible. Robert: I can see how it is possible to follow 1000 people if that is what you do for a living, like you do. RobinDotNet: someone who says more than 10 things a day with a low signal to noise ratio but has some hidden gems. I use FriendFeed to find the gems by following them here and waiting for comments. - Sam Pullara

On my @thomasknoll account I follow over 1k people that I have met, or who are interested in a few things I pay close attention to (social anthropology, community building, value networks). I don't know everyone on that account personally, but I do remove noise. I have another private account where I only follow people who I would happily give a key to my home. - Thomas Knoll

I follow some people just to get a conflicting view from what I believe. Just because you follow does not mean you are an actual follower. - Ken

I've been struggling with my "follow" policy for a while. As time goes on and I meet more and more people face to face, I'm moving slowly in that direction. I might just completely adopt it after SXSW '10. - Trent Hamm

Twitter is extremely limited in that it isn't possible to set up groups, so in fact one has to set up different accounts. I have one account that is quite small, updates protected, that follows only a handful of people I know personally. I can see every update in this account easily (oops, have to use the new official term "tweet"). I have another account that doesn't tweet and only... more... - Robert Morrison

Robert Scoble

Interesting, Mike Arrington deleted the TechCrunch account on friendfeed. My additional thoughts are on mobs and this here:

June 7 - Comment - Like - Share

Liviu Barbat, Gordon Saunders, Simone Lovati and 181 other people liked this

be right back with more. - Robert Scoble

773 more comments

That makes me sad because it was my favorite tech blog to click "like" on. I talked with Mike this morning at an event and he said last night was one of the worst he's ever lived through with the amount of hatred aimed at him. He deleted 600 Techcrunch comments, too, he told me. - Robert Scoble

Wow, interesting. - Kevin Whalen

Some of the comments I've seen on both sides of the aisle are pretty damn repugnant. I've had that kind of stuff aimed at me in the past and it's never fun. - Robert Scoble

he pissed off Leo's hardcore fans - David Lloyd

wow, deleted the tc account. Scoble: what do you think are going to be the long term implications of this? - ming yeow

It just goes to show that people love to pay attention to negative things, but rarely to positives, or when people make efforts to make up for past misgivings. Sad, but human nature. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Funny, I remember helping push a mob against some people I really didn't like and a friend really ripped into me for doing that. My friend was right, of course. Interesting that not many people are speaking up against the kinds of comments (aimed personally, not at the substance of what happened). I want to be counted as one of those who stood up personally against the kind of comments I've seen. - Robert Scoble

600 hateful comments? Puts a knot in my stomach just thinking about it. Have had the occasional hate comments but never to that extent - David Weedmark

I didn't dig into those treads too much but imagine they got pretty nasty, probably more so on digg. too bad though, i used FF to find lots of TC content - sean percival

Mark: and Leo should call them back and tell them shame. The kinds of things I've seen against Mike (and some against Leo too) are just awful. People saying that Mike should get cancer and die and worse. - Robert Scoble

That seems weird.. Why would anyone delete an account on FF. Were they a lot of hateful comments posted to his account? - Bindu Reddy

thats fucked up Robert. - David Lloyd

David: Given the number of people who hate Arrington's guts, 600 doesn't seem too bad. Just one person harassing you over a period of years over the net (as I've had) is much worse than 600 random people digging at you once and then going away. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Very strange... Was it hacked? - Hugo Romano

But don't you think due to a LOT of pent up frustration against Mike? His attitude has always been a point of contentment amongst lots of people i know. - ming yeow

Bindu: Mike is actually a pretty sensitive guy beneath a lot of bluster. I'm to blame for pushing the friendfeeders to poke at Mike. - Robert Scoble

ming: there's some of that that's Mike's fault too. But when mobs happen they always go overboard. - Robert Scoble

SCOBLE: I was the one who posted the video on youtube (MPB326) that everyone has been linking to and I have gotten the 700+ comments to my email account. I can't believe some of the stupid things people are saying on YouTube. Terrible stuff! I was actually thinking about deleting the video. - Mike Bracco

Sorry but he shouldn't have deleted his FF account. He should have stayed the storm. I think what he said to Leo was out of line, but to receive the vitriol he has is unnecessary. I think he deserves criticism, but not cancer threats. - kenneth glenn

Yeah that's really screwed up. If those people want to get pissed off at something, come to a third world country and take a gander at all the "real" abuses people do. Talk about making you sick ... - Nick in Manila

scobe: roger that. I like leo a lot, but that seemed to be an overreaction by him. then the mobs wayyyy over reacted - ming yeow

ming: and go far further than the problem that incited them in the first place. And Mike rarely gets personal, as far as I have seen, even when his barbs are aimed at something I've done. - Robert Scoble

Mike acts like a dick. Then again, so do I. I used to have a hate-on for him myself until I realized that really, he's a lot like me... Ballsy and annoying on the outside, but a real human with real feelings on the inside. I'm not afraid to call him a jerk to his face, but that's his behaviour I'm commenting on, not him personally. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I don't get why people feel so compelled to fling poo at Michael. He says contentious things, has strong opinions, and sometimes screws up...that makes him human and reasonably interesting. I think that is a good thing. - Neal Jansons

Chris: we're all dicks once in a while. I think that's part of being human. Far as I know there's only one perfect human who has walked on the earth and I bet even he wasn't perfect if we actually could get to know him. - Robert Scoble

Neal: Everyone loves taking everyone else down a notch or two. Primate dominance games. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mike it would be better to post the follow up video on youtube. It was an interesting conversation and would help put everything into context. - Benjamin Taylor

Neal: Chris nailed it. We love building people up and then dragging them down. I told Mike that whenever I've gotten a shit storm to form it's been when I've been at my most interesting. - Robert Scoble

Benjamin - yeah I wish I also captured the conversation a little while after between Arrington and Leo where they talked it out. - Mike Bracco

This is sad - Johni Fisher

Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does. - Robert Scoble

Leo has this massive army of supporters, and many more who probably found the clip and came to support him. These weren't neutral third parties giving their honest opinion on the incident, they were Leo supporters through and through. I can't blame him for deleting the account, because I was reading the comments, and they were tough. - Colin

I'm really surprised that Mike still, after all the crap he gets, feels hurt from these comments by people. But last night he and Leo were both discussing how these comments about "mike should die" are not from reasonable, of right mind people. I'm sad that he takes those comments to heart. And I'm sad that trolls thrive in this place (the internet) I love. - Lise

Has Leo said anything to his supporters about their attacks on Mike since yesterday, by the way? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

As much as we all may like and respect Arrington, it just seems as if he was trying to create news at Leo's expense. - Stuart Tracte

Chris, Robert: I know, but Mike is center of poo-flinging more often than most, and he got freaking SPIT on and had his family threatened last year. It just amazes me, and honestly, each snafu just makes me more sympathetic with him personally (I still sometimes disagree with him, professionally, of course, but that is just the biz). - Neal Jansons from IM

Colin: yeah, and Leo should have spoken to his audience and told them to stay professional. But that will come back to Leo someday. These things always do, which is why my friend was correct when he told me never to push a mob. - Robert Scoble

I missed TWiT so I don't know if Leo brought it up or not during the show, but I hope he took an opportunity to tell others that its not their place to fight Mike on Leo's behalf. Especially after they made up. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

But Robert, working your ass off isn't an excuse for behaving badly to people or acting the way arirngton has in the past. Hard work doesn't mean you get to be a jerk - David Lloyd

Neal: yeah, some people become larger than life and it makes people feel that it's OK to do pretty outrageous things against them. - Robert Scoble

Chris: He didn't. I'm not sure he's even aware of the comments Mike got. - Vlad Bobleanta

Leo said at the end of his TWIT feed that he "had trouble sleeping last night." Perhaps because of this brou-ha-ha? - Steve Burgess

Vlad: Thanks. That's a shame, I think it'd be really good for both sides if Leo did come out and say this to everyone. Even if he just recorded a short video clip and tossed it up, standalone. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Whatever either of them say at this point, it has gone beyond them and their ability to "do" anything - Susan Reynolds

Robert, Leo could have said "please stay professional" a thousand times but come on, this is the internet. Do trolls, who are always ready for a fight, listen to that? - Lise

Susan: Perhaps, but it would still help allow cooler minds and attitudes to prevail and in a shorter time than if they remain silent. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: I think Arrington would agree with you. - Robert Scoble

Chris: He brought the incident up, but didn't calm anyone down. Again, I'm not sure he's aware of what's been going on. - Vlad Bobleanta

Also, the Gillmor Gang section is gone: http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/ - Greg Byrne

i still post all my posts here. i can post the other TC ones if you guys want too. - MG Siegler

Chris, that's true, but there are still a vast army of followers who think they are in the right and just go off half cocked - and stay that way - Susan Reynolds

Lise: true too. - Vlad Bobleanta

Lise: probably not, but my friend's words ring true: to hold back mobs as much as possible. - Robert Scoble

This is 1. not a surprise & 2. mobs are not at the behest of the personalities they follow. They are mobs. Mobs glom onto some perceived raison d'etre and go. If Arrington, after all of his time pushing buttons and twisting tits, is surprised by this, well, he's a whole hell of a lot dumber than he ever gets credit for being. - Dave Martin

Leo and Steve had a big fight last night: bottom line is GG is off the twit network - David Lloyd

MG: that would be cool. Techcrunch was my #1 most "liked" feed here on friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

People saying stupid things in comments? This is nothing new. Sometimes you just don't want to deal with it anymore. - Dean Clark

perhaps someone could set up an acocunt that will link to TC articles as they are posted in real time - David Lloyd

Susan: "Madness is rare in individuals--but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I hope he recreates it. - Johnny Worthington

Dave: I don't think he's surprised by it, just shocked at how bad it's gotten. - Robert Scoble

Perhaps someone could write a piece detailing the mob situation, defending Arrington, and encouraging him to come back, maybe this is it. - Colin

Dave Martin: I get why he's surprised. There's always a disconnect between someone like him and the so called community, and also there's always a mob waiting to be formed. - Vlad Bobleanta

Not all of those comments were hateful. he pissed me off more when he deleted mine. I pointed out what he said and then opined that I didn't think it was enough and he deleted this: http://ff.im/3FDfA - Jimminy

Big names, little names, it's still hard to see hateful things aimed your way. Intellectually most of us understand, but emotions sometimes get in the way even to the big fish - Susan Reynolds

wtf happened? i missed it and am sorry whatever came to this has come to this. - jeneane sessum

Chris: good quote! My history teacher in College simplified that to "the masses are asses." - Robert Scoble

Maybe he is just shocked that not only Leo's community attacked him but also his "loyal" techcrunch community gave him a bashing - David Lloyd

Robert, I see your point, but I don't need to be told to refrain from attacking someone. I saw what happened. I wish Leo hadn't gotten *so* angry but I respect that he feels passionately. He was defending his integrity. So that I respect. I respect Mike for handling it all so well and not throwing F bombs back. And I love Leo. But I wasn't going to curse Mike or wish death upon him. So those that did, there's no changing them. - Lise

Jeneane: Mike and Leo got into it on Gillmor Gang yesterday. There's a whole thread about that. - Robert Scoble

Not sure how taking TC off FF relates to the problems Arrington was having in comments on his blog. ? - Nick in Manila

TechCrunch Question: I noticed that my comments on FF for TechCrunch articles also appeared as part of TC's comments on their site. Is that part of FF API? - Mike Bracco

Nick: the most hostile comments were in FF comments - David Lloyd

Jeneane: http://friendfeed.com/twit-co... - Vlad Bobleanta

Mark: Aha. - Nick in Manila

oh jeez. thx robert. i'm sorry to hear that. sounds like the chorus got active. - thanks for the link Vlad. had no idea. - jeneane sessum

Mike: You can import FF comments onto Wordpress posts via a plugin - Nicholas James

Lise: good point, but I've learned that if leaders call on their followers to behave appropriately then they usually do. I don't want anyone who calls for someone else to get cancer to read me, by the way. I am here to have great conversations about tech. Keep it on the tech and we'll have a great time. - Robert Scoble

Lise, Robert, the hateful comments say more about the idiots who write them than about the two personalities about which the angry words swirl - Susan Reynolds

Nick: death threats etc - David Lloyd

Lise: There are those who were ready to tear Arrington to shreds, at least until the mutual apologies of him and Leo came out on TechCrunch. At least, I can't believe I'm the only one who felt like that. Some angry people can be assauged. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: Not sure I agree. The Youtube comments are terrible. - Mike Bracco

it's difficult to be surprised by the size of this reaction.like it or not, you guys are celebrities. - Stuart Tracte

Mike: no, Techcrunch had a Wordpress Plugin that was doing that. That Plugin has been removed, too. - Robert Scoble

Colin: I think the general flip-out crazy needs to be addressed, but it needs to be by an A-lister so everyone sees it. The whole way these things are happening makes the whole industry look insane and unprofessional. - Neal Jansons from IM

Stuart: The size, yes. The venom of it, though? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

shouldnt be too hard to make an unofficial ff account for techcrunch posts - David Lloyd

someone wanna go do it? - David Lloyd

Stuart: that's the thing. We're also people and Mike is sensitive like the rest of us (even if he has built a persona that shows him as above it all). - Robert Scoble

Mark: Surprised if someone hasn't already beaten us all to it. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: I'd rather not do that. I'd rather someone at Techcrunch does that. - Robert Scoble

There are a few existing TC accounts from their feed. - Benjamin Taylor

Scoble's made the point that FF has structural features to control that kind of stuff. Guess it was overwhelmed. - Nick in Manila

Chris C, so you were one of the ones wishing death upon Mike until he apologized? - Lise

well im sure if Arrington took it down, it is probably TC policy not to have FF account, his other writers wont make one - David Lloyd

Fanboys are going to follow whatever lead they're directed. If Leo had said that Mike had terrible BO, there'd be thousands of Leo disciples telling Arrington to get himself some deodorant. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is. - Jay Caruso

hows this http://friendfeed.com/techcru... - Jack

Leo is well-spoken, he makes things sound good, he's a well-known likeable guy, and he was the one on video, that's a lot of things going for him if you ignore everything else that's going on, and people do. Just mob mentality and drive-by commenting. - Colin

Behind every great character there is a real person. I just hope that the more rational people currently participating in the mob realize this and understand what they're doing before they do anything worse. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Nick: well, yes. I wish we could have a team feed from Techcrunch. - Robert Scoble

I still like Mike and don't think he should have deleted the TC account. I enjoy the TC posts but find that Mike and Erick tend to get to a point that makes me want to stop reading their stuff, and I won't for a few days. - Jimminy

Just create a public standard feed/group (owner controls posts, anyone can comnent), and import TC from twitter/RSS/whatever. - Ken Kennedy

Lise: Not wishing death, but I certainly would have given him shit and got up in his face if I had the chance. I don't fight (often) but I do relish giving hell to people. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Done: http://friendfeed.com/techcru... - Jack

Jay, that's not true. I am a huge Leo fangirl but I also think for myself. - Lise

The people who were commenting took it too far - Mike Appologised. Leo Appologised. That should have been it although Leo's fans just tried to continue to call mike for no reason. - Nicholas James

Jack, subscribed. - Robert Scoble

Lise, it wasn't a blanket statement. I've been a fan of Leo's since the old Tech TV days. Just saying that some will take it too far and it all it takes is the person to open that door a crack. - Jay Caruso

Thanks, Jacky boy x - David Lloyd

Thanks Jack! - Nicholas James

Thanks, Jack! - Neal Jansons from IM

Robert, is there anything else that needs doing? I think I got it right - Jack

Wait... is Jack affiliated with Techcrunch? Why not have MG do this? He offered. - Ken Sheppardson

Nicholas: At this point I'd probably be calling Arrington to tell him to not take it too personally, that mobs are really just sheep with pointy teeth. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

FF is a focus group in many ways. Sad commentary IMHO. - Eric Logan

Jack, Robert: MG can handle this. He writes for Techcrunch. How 'bout we not squat on their brand? - Ken Sheppardson

Chris C, exactly. You just said, you relish giving people hell. You're always ready for a fight. I, on the other hand, am not. And I looked at this situation and considered both sides, despite being a huge Leo fan and not knowing many details on Mike (other than he pisses people off) - Lise

Is there really much more discussion about this? What is done is done. It's already in the past & let's move on. No one knows how this will affect Leo in the future if at all. - Jason Hansen

Want to know what else happened? A single moderator in Leo's IRC chat room muted the entire channel, causing the mob to spill into FriendFeed. - Colin

When I first was diagnosed w/ cancer and the twitter community started the frozen pea fund to donate to cancer research, Mike and Robert were among the first to write about it. As I see it, they both keep a human touch to the community no matter how popular the following. I appreciate that and so maybe its easier for me to see past some of the things that upset the crowds. - Susan Reynolds

I'm not affiliated in any way with TC - Jack

are you okay now Susan ? xxx - David Lloyd

Lise: anyone who does interesting things in media is going to piss someone off. Even me, I try to take reasonable positions and do my homework, but I have lots of haters out there too. It's unavoidable. - Robert Scoble

Jason, I think there is. Considering Mike deleted his account and the GG site no longer exists on techcrunch. I feel bad for Mike and Steve. - Lise

OK, if he asks - Jack

Eric - true - ff as focus group - Susan Reynolds

Why do you feel bad for Mike & Steve? - Jason Hansen

Lise: Steve deleted the GG page, if I heard that correct. It will be interesting to see how the Gillmor Gang goes forward from here. - Robert Scoble

Robert, no I get that. But that's my point. I know Mike is capable of that. And I'm way more of a Leo fangirl. Yet I wasn't with my fist in the air yelling "fight!" - Lise

Mark - thanks for asking. Not OK but very supported by the best of the net - Susan Reynolds

Basically the only 2 people who should have been involved was Mike and Leo. They both appologised - the mob tried to get involved and call Mike for no reason - I mean after both of them appologising to each other that should have been it - people took it too far with some of the comments I saw yesterday. - Nicholas James

Because Steve realized his show isn't really his show. And Mike got hell when he didn't even give Leo that much shit to begin with. - Lise

ROBERT: oops caps, I do know Leo and Steve had a fight last night and its not gonna be on TWiT anymore x - David Lloyd

You know, my main issue with what happened yesterday, is that it was an ego clash. And just that. Funny that in the make-up part Leo kept insisting that he'd like more content on GG and less drama, an hour or two after he himself caused a helluva lot of drama. I do love Leo and watch all of his shows, but yesterday he was overreacting. And I think he figured that out in the mean time.... more... - Vlad Bobleanta

If the mob is acting "in Leo's name", then I think Leo should try and tell them that they're certainly not acting with his permission or blessings. That they should disband and stop attacking Mike. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Steve still seems like he's trying to throw his weight around and try to be in complete control of the show. He needs to remember its not just about him - its about the audience - something he said he didn't care about yesterday - Nicholas James

My impression is the guy went over tipping point for the kind of character he was putting out there, at some point people are going to say enough is enough. - Ian Wright

Nicholas: the show used to be private, Im not sure Steve cares that much about the audience - David Lloyd

Live by the sword... - Ian Wright

Vlad, it was the final straw for Leo. He had said before that Mike was becoming too trollish during the GG show. And when he felt like Mike was about to attack his integrity, well, he blew up. Unfortunately. - Lise

gillmor gang is going to be nothing more than a conference call :-( - Tobias Lewsadder

Nicholas: Steve cares about the audience more than he lets on. He knows that by making things interesting he's doing right by the audience. That doesn't mean, though, that you kowtow to the audience. - Robert Scoble

Tobias: heheh, in the real time world? THAT I would have to see! - Robert Scoble

Isn't that your opinion Robert? - Jason Hansen

I watched the whole thing unfold last night including the after show and it was clear that Mike Arrington spoke before he thought and didn't mean it to come out like people including Leo took it. I am glad that they both cooled down and realized it was a simple mis communication. Its too bad the crowd can't do the same. Mike Arrington may be a pain in the butt but pain in the butts are interesting. - Kim Landwehr

Jason, sorry, lost context. This is all my opinion. I can't speak for anyone else other than me. - Robert Scoble

Kim: bing! - Robert Scoble

"Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does." Doesn't make his insinuations right. I work hard and couldn't do what he does probably - but that doesn't mean he can act like a jerk - repeatedly according to some. - Mark Outten

I'm pretty sure the Techcrunch <-> Friendfeed comment sync was disabled a few days ago. Not sure it had anything to do with the dust-up yesterday. - Ken Sheppardson

Lise: I know why it happened. I understand that was building inside Leo over time. I get that. - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert, that really bugged me that Steve said he didn't care about the community. But I agree, he cares greatly about the show and the community. He wouldn't have been so hurt if he didn't. - Lise

i was blown away by the second episode of gg. it almost seemed like arrington was torn by who he had turned into, at least the negativity that resides within hm. - Tobias Lewsadder

It's probably just the mob he's upset with Lise. - Colin

I also agree with Kim. I enjoyed watching GG at 6:00 PM during the last hour of shift at work. I would still watch it as well as TWiT. - Jason Hansen

He was hurt by some of the comments, he also blamed Dave Winer for alot of problems - David Lloyd

Mark: who said he's a jerk? Sometimes we're all jerks. And, anyway, when he's being a jerk he usually is keeping it on the story. Not personal. He's taken lots of shots at me but has NEVER said that I should get cancer and die. That's unacceptable. - Robert Scoble

Vlad, okay and I agree with you that Mike should blow those comments off. I'm shocked he hasn't grown a thicken skin - Lise

I think that if anyone bothered to read the Techcrunch appology and watch/listen to the 2nd Gillmor Gang yesterday they'd know the full story. The mob listened to the 1st Gillmor Gang only and drew their conclusions - some of that mob didn't even listen to Gillmor Gang - they just jumped on the bandwagon like sheep especially as they saw like a 1 minute clip on Youtube summarising it. - Nicholas James

I don't know Arrington personally, all I can judge him from is his body of work with TechCrunch and it's top notch. Anyone who criticizes him in a vicious way needs to look in the mirror. A lot of those with the harsh words are probably typing it from their parents basement. I just hate when people rip other people with a pretext of being something else when it's really jealousy. - Mike Bracco

Lise: it's always easy to say people should have a thick skin until you're the one at the center of a mob getting kicked in the groin. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Mike: bing! - Robert Scoble

Steve Gillmor clearly stated that he doesn't care about the audience. And that's that for me, Robert. Lise: I can see Steve cares about the show, and especially his brand inside the show. About the audience, he said it better than I ever could. Please believe the man. - Vlad Bobleanta

I think the Steve-Leo conflict (which was briefly obvious on the show) got totally overshadowed and subsumed by the Leo-Mike issue. - Nick in Manila

Robert's comment exactly. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Robert, true. I know I couldn't handle it. - Lise

Robert: You like Microsoft's new search engine. ;) - Jason Hansen

Vlad: you aren't listening carefully. I heard what Steve said yesterday and totally understood what he was saying. You can't let the audience drive your product. Ask a Porsche owner what they want and they'll say "more trunk space, smoother ride, more leg room, etc." They just designed a Volvo. - Robert Scoble

Robert: 100% agreed. I do not want to be in Mike's position, ever. - Vlad Bobleanta

Vlad: all of us in media care DEEPLY about the audience. If you hung around any of these people you'd know that we read every comment and take them very seriously. But the day you start listening to the audience and kowtowing to them is the day when you lose your way. - Robert Scoble

Robert: How does the mob get its "justice" then? I have not seen the venomous postings you speak of, nor do I agree in any way that that is the way to go. So, how does this get resolved? I, like many, believe Leo was being "entrapped". How does Arrington get out of this with his reputation intact? He's done alot for all of us and definitely does not deserve the level of hatred you speak of, but something need to be done... - Stuart Tracte

Stuart: most of the nastiest stuff has been deleted. - Robert Scoble

Make a good product and the audience will find you. - Kim Landwehr

Side note: Do not try to converse on FF on an iphone.... had a whole paragraph written out.... and lost it... - Stuart Tracte

I think Arrington and Leo will come out of this fine, I'm already paying more attention to both of them. - Colin

Stuart: you should go and listen to the second show we did last night. Leo wasn't entraped. And he didn't have to react that way. When people question my ethics I answer them calmly. I get questioned on that all the time. - Robert Scoble

Every week someone asks me if I'm paid by friendfeed, for instance. - Robert Scoble

Robert: I am listening, and I get your point. I never got Steve's attitude, though. And I was just spinning what he said, I did get the underlying meaning. - Vlad Bobleanta

(I'm not). - Robert Scoble

Tonights FF homework: listen to the full GG show to become better informed http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

i was in the middle of typing a comment on tech crunch last night when mike shut down the comments, how sad. he mentioned having to have a police car parked in front of his house in the past for similar issues... that is wrong!!! - Tobias Lewsadder

SCOBLE: totally agree! true innovation can't come from what the "flock" is saying they want. True innovators are so because they create something that no-one knew they needed until it is created. - Mike Bracco

Honestly, I suspect that every person who got really pissed at @arrington over the years but had decided to ignore him went back and told him what they'd thought of him all along. He's ruined companies and products on the grandstand. I read his stuff like I watch fox news, for the truth far from the middle but for clues of what might be left out on the sunny side. - Shava Nerad

Vlad: Gillmor is an interesting person. I don't always get him either. - Robert Scoble

Robert, still. I am that community that Steve supposedly doesn't care about. And that's where I almost did pump my fist in the air. When Steve said he didn't care and Leo instantly said he *did* care. But... again, I feel bad for Steve, still. His issue was just loss of control over his baby (the show) - Lise

Colin: Professionally, sure! This isn't any kind of permanent damage to either of them. Personally, though, I know that it's got to hurt them both. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris, I think they're both tougher now. - Colin

Shava: He's made many hundreds of companies too. I don't know of a single one that was ruined by TechCrunch. Please back that statement up. - Robert Scoble

Colin: You'd be surprised. Often the people who seem to have the thickest skin on the outside are the most sensitive on the inside. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Does Leo know any of this, btw? I think he thinks this is all over with...considering he was joking about it all. I think he's embarrassed and trying to make light of it. But I don't think it's over, unfortunately. - Lise

Seriously everyone who did not listen to the 2nd show shouldn't even comment on it. Infact the problem should be over and done with it was a minor row which ended pretty quickly with both appologising to each other. That should be the end of it. Instead of people jumping on the bandwagon trying to call someone because he has a huge readership base and earns a nice amount of revenue from his blog - Nicholas James

still watching. - jeneane sessum

If they were ruined by TechCrunch then I'd have to call that company pretty lame. Remember PodTech? Mike pointed out a lack of leadership at the company. In hindsight Mike was right. - Robert Scoble

Chris, but that outer skin just got thicker lol, I dunno, I just think it has to be a big lesson to both of them, they'll remember it. - Colin

Lise: I don't know what Leo is seeing right now. I should call him and check in. - Robert Scoble

I don't know about Mike, but Leo was already making fun of the incident on TWIT, realized their was a slight overreaction on his part - Kim Landwehr

Colin: Yes, they'll remember it. But that outer skin is just their media personalities. You're ignoring the real people behind those names, and how they feel about it. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I don't even believe that Mike was about to question Leo's ethics. He was just upset that they didn't get a Pre. And wanted to make a point about how Palm selects reviewers. I never questioned Leo's integrity. Neither Mike's. I think they'd be really stupid to endanger their careers like that. Which settles it for me. - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert: Will you pass him the link to this discussion? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I think yesterday was enough fanfare - I'm filing this in the "none of my business" stack - Bwana ☠ from IM

Wow...did not expect to learn this when I logged onto FriendFeed. - Ben Parr

Robert, you should. I hope they can work this out. It's definitely not smoothed over. Maybe between Mike and Leo but not all 3. - Lise

Vlad: you weren't hearing Mike. Please go listen to the second show. He made it very clear why he was asking those questions. Mike asks me all the time about my ethics. It's his way of digging for stories. - Robert Scoble

Bwana: But we need to know what every single person on FriendFeed thinks about the relationship between Leo, Mike, and Steve... did you miss the memo? - Ken Sheppardson

I'll say this again, but Leo's IRC chat was muted, and chatters spilled right onto FriendFeed. If you were reading the IRC chat at the time, it was 100% pro-Leo. Those people normally don't come on FriendFeed, but when they were muted, this was the first place they came to, because this is the 2nd largest chat Leo endorses. - Colin

Robert: That's his way of digging for stories... fine. However, is that something you would do to a respected friend? - Jason Hansen

Lise: that's true. Steve feels his show was stepped on needlessly. - Robert Scoble

Mmmyeah, Steve's issue was loss of control over the show. I get that. I've seen how awkward it was at times. But still. How old are these people again? - Vlad Bobleanta

Jason: All's fair in love and war... And in media. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Jason: in this business? Yes. I ask MYSELF all the time am I on the right side of the ethical line. And when someone is getting a goodie and I'm not, it sure does make me wonder WHY. - Robert Scoble

steve should host the show and he boot whomever he wants and not invite back guests he doesnt feel fit into gg. - Tobias Lewsadder

Tobias: I agree. Steve should be in charge of the off switch on his own show. - Robert Scoble

To run a show, you have to do what Leo does, you have to be able to control cameras and mics, and Steve really needs to get that kind of control, or Leo's operator needs to stay neutral, and out of it. - Colin

Tobias: Steve should take things offline for making the show, and then broadcast it afterwards, rather than doing it live. That might help reduce the bad attitudes it seems to bring out from its hosts and guests. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I do think Steve had a point, It is his show and Leo really didn't have the right to shut the show down, no matter how mad he was - Kim Landwehr

Robert: I would like to see the inner of the business for a week or two. It would be an interesting learning experience I'm sure. - Jason Hansen

Tobias: I think it was unprofessional for Leo to pull the off switch on someone else's show while on air. It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me if I were to host a show on his network. - Robert Scoble

out of interest. was leo, steve or arrington making money from GG? will this have business implications - Anthony Feint

Robert: It would depend if you pissed him off ;) - Nicholas James

Anthony: not yet, but whenever audiences get built around media properties there's always money involved eventually. - Robert Scoble

No Anthony, this was a Saturday, and people's free time. - Colin

Chris: Steve lives and breathes "live". - Nick in Manila

Nicholas: if I pissed someone off they should bite their lip and fire me after the show. That's professionalism. It also gives people a chance to explain themselves. When you're on air it's very difficult to discuss business in a professional way. - Robert Scoble

Robert: How much time has Leo spent on the air over the past 10 years or so? How many incidents like this have their been? Seems like you might literally be blowing it out of proportion, re "It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me" - Ken Sheppardson

Robert: I saw the show yesterday. Yeah, I know, my point was more that he was using the ethical question to start off his 'story' about Palm sending review units. Which is exactly what he said in part 2 of the show, when you were on too. And it's exactly what you kinda said. So let's agree to agree, even if my phrasing isn't phenomenal right now :) - Vlad Bobleanta

I like Mike, I really do, and I respect him, but he has to take some responsibility. Its not what he says, its how he says it, that rubs people the wrong way - Stephen Pickering

Robert: I gotta agree with Ken's last statement. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Ken: that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities. - Robert Scoble

The interesting thing for me was that about a month ago, on another TWiT show, Leo expressed some negative sentiment about Arrington and the way he sort of "stir things up" to try to get responses out of people. It was on net@nite I believe. Anyway, that is the first thing I thought of when this happened yesterday. - Mike Bracco

so I guess we are that petty? such a waste of our attention. Lets get back to reading / listening / sharing. Hopefully Mike will consider friendfeed again down the road and shake off all the negative publicity/bad feelings about inciting Leo. - Mark Essel

but was leo giving free bandwidth to GG? - Anthony Feint

Chris: I was one of Leo's "Laporteans" and have been a friend of Leo's before I even had a blog. I love the guy. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: yes, but again, if you are going to fire someone in media, or shut down someone else's show, you should do that off air. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: but maybe that's just me. - Robert Scoble

I thought the comments towards Mike yesterday were overwhelmingly positive after they both apologized. I gained a new respect for Mike yesterday. - Jesse Stay

Robert "that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities" That's why i made it a point to say Leo would be better off Not "Hosting" the GG but being a Out of Studio Guest - Erle Stride

Mike B, exactly, he was ready to be attacked by Mike. He said it himself. So he went overboard. - Lise

Scoble: Can't substantiate at the moment, so skip it as unsubstantiated, but I remember 2-3 times seeing what he said about something, and what others said, and thinking, he was just talking things down to be contrarian. It's like ValleyWag -- are you familiar with them? Thing is I rarely have read his stuff lately. I prefer constructive criticism over snark negativity, and that's the... more... - Shava Nerad

As an outsider viewing the beginning of the show, my impression was that Leo lashed out as if their is some pent up frustration/anger towards Arrington. - Kevin Whalen

Anthony: I think Leo agrees there, too. He said he was wrong to shut down the show. - Robert Scoble

I think Leo shouldn't have stopped the whole show, after all it is Steve's show. However I can understand why he did. It seems to me he was never quite happy with GG on Twit from the beginning. Which is what he kinda admitted in part2. If the show were to stay on Twit, I think they should just get someone in the cottage to switch between cameras and stuff, and Leo should be a guest. In Steve's show. - Vlad Bobleanta

Shava: I've been on Valleywag more than 70 times. - Robert Scoble

I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. - Jack

Vlad: I agree, and I think so does Leo and Steve. - Robert Scoble

Kevin: Leo's talked about what he dislikes in Mike's persona before, but this is the first time things really came to a head. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Robert: yeah I agree to...im just wondering where the shows going to go. ITs going to lose a big audience. I only watched because it was on twit and techcrunch - Anthony Feint

squarespace sounds interesting (still listening) - does put #squarespace in your tweet still enter you in the contest? - jeneane sessum

Probably not a good idea to be a guest and be in control of a show at the same time. - Kim Landwehr

Really, he apologized, so shouldn't this be over if it's over between the two antagonists? But then this is the Internet. And yes, I figured you know Valleywag, but this is a general audience as well. A lot of folks don't overlap - Shava Nerad

Leo DOES have the right to pull the show it's HIS network That's why Steve got so Pissy Lastnight - Erle Stride

Robert, don't you think this is a bit of a soap opera? - Jon Lebkowsky

Kevin: That exactly the way it appeared to this outsider. - Nick in Manila

Vlad, I think we all agree that Leo shouldn't have shut the show down. But I think removing Leo from his own network in his own studio is silly. Do you really think he's going to do this again? - Lise

Jon: of course! - Robert Scoble

Mike sounded so reasonable last night. He told Leo and Steve not to make any rash decisions about the show, I'm surprised he didn't apply the same wisdom to himself and yanked the TC account so fast - Stephen Pickering

Jon: of course this is all a soap opera. So is real life. - Robert Scoble

If Arrington had gotten a free Pre to preview this never would havve happened - Chris Patterson

Shava: The thing is, even if this weren't the internet, all our talking heads would still be talking about this. It's like with any kind of media personality, new old doesn't matter. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Sigh. Okay. "Desperate Technorati." - Jon Lebkowsky

jeneane: No, Calacanis just asked that the listeners of TWiT do that to support the sponsors of the show. - Mike Bracco

Jeneane The contest starts on Monday. Details at squarespace.com/iphone - Vlad Bobleanta

Stephen: lots of us can see the sins in other people but can't see our own sins quite so clearly. Myself included. :-) - Robert Scoble

Chris, I see. - Kevin Whalen

I'm not sure I agree that life has to be a soap opeat, but I have to agree that it often is. - Jon Lebkowsky

Arrington was treated terribly - no doubt. is this new for him? no. has he treated others terribly? yes. will deleting the account keep people from treating him badly? no. will it stop him from treating others poorly? i doubt it. we all act like jerks sometimes. some of us have a bigger audience when it happens. some of us get a lot more crap when we do it. the folks who get extra crap... more... - MikeAmundsen

Your right, I've got to learn to practice that on myself - Stephen Pickering

These guys could use some zazen. - Jon Lebkowsky

I guess I missed the terrible part on FriendFeed - TechCrunch or Digg or the TWiT chatroom, maybe, but it seemed to me FriendFeed was rooting for Mike by the end of that show. - Jesse Stay

lol, Jon! - Shava Nerad

Lise: Lol. Dunno, we'll see. - Vlad Bobleanta

i think this can be debated for days... perhaps finding a resolution should the direction here. - Tobias Lewsadder

Sad. The Techcrunch items were some of my favorite part of Friendfeed. And I seem to remember an issue Mike wrote about some weeks back that impressed me with non-tech issues he feels strongly about. I hope he comes back with the Techcrunch account because whatever else, a few of us think he's part of here. - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: I think the stuff that got TechCrunch to delete friendfeed came last night. - Robert Scoble

Less chatter, more photon splatter? What's the big deal, everbody's human and loses their cool at times. Some social media/stars/hosts are working very very long days and it's way to easy to fly off the handle when someone questions your rep. - Mark Essel

Which is sad because that was the only way I read TechCrunch before. Hopefully MG continues to share his posts. - Jesse Stay

MikeAmundsen: It only takes one dog to bite out your throat. Mike's lucky in this regard that it's a bunch of people screaming at him once or twice and then disappearing into the void, so much as this issue is concerned. When you have one person in a campaign against you for a long time, though, the damage is far worse than what this mob is doing to Mike. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Tobias: yeah, not sure there is a resolution. I hope everyone who listens to me and interacts on my behalf remembers that there's people involved here. - Robert Scoble

Mike Admundsen - you nailed it - Liza

I expect the friendfeed, if it was anything like this, was too fast and nasty to moderate, and when things die down he'll be back. I can see me doing that if things got fast and nasty - Shava Nerad

WWDC needs to hurry up and get here... many you guys are bored :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

If anyone wants a divergence from this serious talk, check out this CALACANIS AUDIBLE LOVE DANCE that I just recorded from today's TWiT - http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Mike Bracco

Jesse: http://www.friendfeed.com/techcru... - someone remade it ;) - Nicholas James

Mike kept saying that a bunch of FriendFeeders wanted to see him dead. I never saw those kind of comments. Were those kind of awful things said? - Stephen Pickering

I suspect they'll get over it. I've certainly had some emotional moments that led me to delete accounts and worse. - Jon Lebkowsky

Anyway, in a week we'll be back to talking about Apple's new iPhone. Bwana is right. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

Bwana, tis true lol, I'm excited to see what Santa will bring. - Colin

And got ove rit. - Jon Lebkowsky

Robert By the sounds of it - Erle Stride

One thing to remember, on the internet we are all still people. Attack egos, attack actions but leave the people alone - Chris Patterson

Bwana: If only Palm had given more people Pre's the other day, we wouldn't be talking about this. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'm with Leo - I don't think there will be a new iPhone - Jesse Stay

Yes, I will get the new Iphone!!!!!!! Yeah, I've been living with a Razor for two years, but I'm not excited about AT&T - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: yeah, but they weren't people who I recognized. Anyway, time to move on. If I ever participate in a Mob again, just kick me in the knees, OK? - Robert Scoble

Chris Patterson: AMEN. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

h Leo and Steve feel the GG and TWiT don't belong together I just wonder who will be the first to pull the trigger - Erle Stride

well, you folks solve the problems of the world, I have to go feed folks dinner...:) Seeya later Jon! Nice to run across you. - Shava Nerad

OK, I will! heheheh - Stephen Pickering

Tking acct down does nothing to address issue - scoble, we'll kick you in knees if you mob - settles it! - Liza

Shava: I gotta go play with Milan who just woke up. Seeya! - Robert Scoble

http://friendfeed.com/tad... - Internet's Tad

Tad: :) - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Yay - saved by Milan, Scoble! - Liza

And yet, a Friendfeed without Arrington is lessened. He was as much a part of Friendfeed as Scoble. Heck, it just doesn't seem like Friendfeed UNLESS you've got both Arrington and Scoble talking. - George Hall (Australia)

Deleting the FF account was an emotional reaction. I mean, think about it. Will that stop people over here talking about Mike or TC stuff? Of course not. So what's the point then? Just that Mike will never ever load FF again and therefore won't see some bad stuff being said about him? Sounds strange to me. I hope he changes his mind, because being less engaged with the audience is never good in my book. Trolls can be blocked. Bad stuff can be ignored. But to stifle what can be good conversations...why? - Vlad Bobleanta

robert could it be as simple as... arrington was a jerk, laporte overreacted in attempts to defend his integrity. both were at fault in one way or another. it is the job of the host of the show to end this all. steve needs to step up and ask everyone to drop it. - Tobias Lewsadder

Now you can't post comments to his last article on techcrunch, how cool is that? - GeorgeAris

Vlad: when people get beat up they don't always make smart decisions. - Robert Scoble

Hopefully Mike Arrington will come back to FF after a short time off, He will be missed - Kim Landwehr

Did someone make the techcrunch account again to save it for him? heh - Lise

Perhaps it's time we made an effort to make Mike feel welcome back here again. - George Hall (Australia)

Would there be agreement that this was out of character for Leo and is there anyone following this that hasn't lost it in a professional situation? I sure he meant what he said, although I'm also sure he regrets it happened and feels like an ass. - Jim Gablick

Tobias: Actually, if Steve can get the two of them in one room and shake hands and tell everyone together to lay off on the attacks, perhaps they might. It's a longshot but it could go a far way to making things better between them all, too. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Talking? I don't see Arrington as a talker...I see (saw) him as a sabre rattler and drama king. Unless there's controversy, he's not quiet. Finally, someone told him to shut the hell up for the tool behavior that's his M.O. Scob, if he couldn't stand the heat.... - C. Jason Mancebo

http://www.dramabutton.com/ - Karim

Karim: LOL> - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

+1 Karim - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert: Agreed. I understand. - Vlad Bobleanta

That drama button was hilarious Karim - Benjamin Taylor

Jason: I don't think Mike minded Leo going off on him so much. It's the aftermath of having the mobs kick him in the nuts that got to him, me thinks. - Robert Scoble

C. Jason: He's that too, but it is a talker. He does engage. And when he's not putting up that jerkface public persona, I'm pretty sure he's a nice, cool guy you can have drinks with. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

i cant believe that we are actually discussing this. shouldnt we feel disgusted that someone felt attacked enough to cancel his account. jerk or not he is human - Tobias Lewsadder

agreed Scoble - Kim Landwehr

never been a fan of mob mentality myself... - George Hall (Australia)

Scob, I think it's cumulative. He's gotten away with ALOT of stirring the pot for a while and people just have had it. Be a contributor, or go away....but I certainly don't agree with the "death and cancer wishes"...that's completely unnecessary. - C. Jason Mancebo

Chris: Mike is always interesting. I was at a tech industry brunch this morning with him and he's always got an interesting conversation going on. - Robert Scoble

How does the saying go... "Live by the swarm, die by the swarm"? - Ken Sheppardson

Jason: then we're on the same side. Arrington gets to me once in a while too. He knows how to push my buttons as well and get me all wound up. But that also is how he gets stories before anyone else does. - Robert Scoble

Heck, Arrington's style created BUZZZ. So why treat him badly? - George Hall (Australia)

It is almost like working for Microsoft. You get attacked daily. - Chris Patterson

C. Jason: I'm a big jerk myself, on the outside, but that doesn't mean I'm not a sensitive and caring person on the inside. He's more than just his persona, he's an actual person too. Sometimes someone does have to come out and say "stop being such a dick" to me, and no doubt to him. But attacking en mass the way this mob [redacted] is doing, that's just not right. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris Patterson: LOL. Good one. - Vlad Bobleanta

George: Arrington has done something remarkable. We always talk about him. He doesn't always like what we're saying, but I told him this morning that he has created a media company that is doing interesting things and that he should worry about the day when we're not all mobbing on him for some reason or another. - Robert Scoble

I don't understand Arrington's defense. He's really nice, soft and fluffy on the inside even though he attacks you in public and calls out your integrity? He may have his own issues to deal with, but he's in the public eye and he should expect the wrath of the Internet to reign down when he pulls an asshat move like this one. How many times does he get to slip out of the antics he... more... - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Maybe he read the Terms and Conditions here at FriendFeed and freaked out? - Kenneth Stein

George: that said, it's not always fun and games being the center of all that kind of attention. - Robert Scoble

+1 on Arrington getting stories before anyone else...when Friendfeed was down a few weeks ago, he was the only one who could provide info on why. Fastest news of that particular day. - George Hall (Australia)

I'm still not convinced we can strictly pin this on Leo fans...that video got dugg bigtime and when a mob forms, people come from everywhere - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert: Don't I know it. - George Hall (Australia)

Eric, does his actions, though, really warrant people to wish death upon him? (which is, apparently what he's upset about) - Lise

Chris Charabaruk: Let's just please not call them Leo fans anymore. A mob is a mob. I'm a Leo fan and was not part of any mob, ever. And I don't want that association to stick in my head. - Vlad Bobleanta

Chris, I'm sure he is, but too often, people need to hide behind their persona for whatever reason. His is the sabre rattler/pot stirrer...he went WAY too far insulting a pretty good guy's ethics. Not good, but certainly agree with the over zealous backlash..not good as well. I guess "you reap what you sew" is certainly valid - C. Jason Mancebo

Vlad: I'm also a Leo fan and I totally see your point. I'll edit that bit out... - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Vlad, yes. I take offense to that whole Leo fans thing. I'm a huge Leo fan. I don't act that way. - Lise

RobertS: this seems so reminiscent of the January fracas in Europe. Why is it that Arrington engenders such anger in people (and i'm not talking about Leo here)? this isn't some cosmic joke on good ol' boy MIke Arrington. there's a lot of history here. there's a lot of anger that Arrington has exhibited over a long period of time. don't get me wrong, i feel badly for the man. but not... more... - MikeAmundsen

let him go. - Stalyn☂

Eric: integrity is something we should always ask of each other. I don't mind if you ask me those kinds of questions. I got a review unit of the Palm Pre too. You SHOULD be asking whether that biases my review in some way. Mike was mostly digging for a story yesterday, not attacking Leo. That's something you gotta know Arrington about. He was digging and got a reaction he wasn't expecting. - Robert Scoble

The internet is full of high octane evil. It waits for an opportunity such as this to wish death on a person. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert, I heard that yesterday, and Leo just popped off. Mike really didn't deserve this one, which you can hear. What upsets me now is that I can see he does personalize a lot of this stuff, which was really done by Leo's audience, and Leo's chat room has an audience I wouldn't wish on my worse enemy. I loved it when we started the FF chat so I wouldn't have to listen to Leo's immature... more... - Francine Hardaway

it seems like people who have been angered by mike at one time or another are using this as an opportunity to lay into him. - Tobias Lewsadder

C Jason: Exactly , it is one thing to attack a persons opinion, but attacking someone's ethics is really harsh - Chris Patterson

No one deserves it - Bwana ☠ from IM

Francine: well said. - Robert Scoble

We had a good discussion yesterday at a tweetup in the city about the whole thing. I think MIke ABSOLUTELY deserved this one. It's been a long time coming. The whole backlash, not deserved, but not surprised. - C. Jason Mancebo

WHAT!!!? - Jason Pollock

C. Jason: if Mike was hiding behind his persona instead of showing the real self, he'd be blasting back at his detractors, not removing their comments and killing the old TC account here. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

NO ONE deserves to have personal attacks that deal with their life or family. - Chris Patterson

I don't think these are even people who were angered by Mike, it was just mob rule. And there's no such thing as an online conversation that's "a long time coming" and bad enough to make someone want to get away from being online. That shouldn't be the way we act. - Francine Hardaway

So Arrington and the other guy worked it out between themselves...so why should a mob stretch things any further? - George Hall (Australia)

Lise, you are absolutely right, that isn't right; no threats are necessary. I didn't see that here however. Not from the regular FF crowd that have regular activity, so I really didn't see that personally. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Chris: Mike wasn't attacking someone else's ethics. Listen carefully to both shows yesterday. He was asking questions. Leo took it too personally, me thinks (he thinks so too, in hind sight). If your ethics are really above reproach you can answer calmly and professionally. - Robert Scoble

Chris, I think he was hiding behind it in public and now is effected beyond the persona. - C. Jason Mancebo

Francine: very well said. - Vlad Bobleanta

Francine: agreed #2. Well said. - Robert Scoble

Geroge Hall correct. - Francine Hardaway

George: Mob mentality. 100 sheep on their own are perfectly fine, but if they freak out and charge in the same direction... - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Francine: mobs can get out of control here in the real time web. Not sure how we can fix that. - Robert Scoble

Scoble, I gotta respectfully disagree with you. He was absolutely trying to make something out of nothing. Totally NOT ETHICAL! - C. Jason Mancebo

Well, you don't want to be in their way. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

These things push my buttons because I see so much potential for good in the online community and I want the bad stuff to go away. I know that's unrealistic - Francine Hardaway

Eric, I didn't notice those either but I wasn't the one attacked and wasn't looking for those. Despite that, Mike saw it/felt it. That's the point. - Lise

Never liked mobs, never liked being on receiving end of them, never liked following any. - George Hall (Australia)

Making a story is not creating a story. Not cool! - C. Jason Mancebo

Jason: I can understand how you see it that way. DId you watch the second Gilmor Gang last night? Mike explained why he was asking those questions and Leo answered much more calmly. - Robert Scoble

I vote we try to help Mike feel wanted here again. - George Hall (Australia)

maybe leo should join us and ask people to lay off - Tobias Lewsadder

Robert, I haven't heard the second show, but in the first one Leo clearly said that it was a review unit. - Chris Patterson

I'm going to email mike. - Francine Hardaway

Jason: personally the free stuff and review units and access DO bias our reporting and that's something that we SHOULD talk about calmly and professionally. Our audiences should hear our answers. I don't think Mike's question was one that shouldn't be asked. Of EVERYONE. - Robert Scoble

Robert, did you get a hold of Leo about this yet? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Scoble, I think it was prettied up for public consumption by both of them. Sure, Leo could have been better about it. Absolutely. But I just am not with you on that one. Agree to disagree on this. - C. Jason Mancebo

You should see the second show. You haven't seen that, you can't really get the gist of it. imho. - Vlad Bobleanta

This is not about Arrington but about much larger issues and tensions that are brewing - amt of comments is undeniable proof of that. - Liza

Robert Scoble, I understand your point. "If you only knew him..." I'm sure if I had a beer with the guy I'd grow to love him and all, but I haven't and all I have to go on is what I saw, and I can't side with M.A., not after his history with shooting first with his posts and comments. He really needs to put himself in the mind of the public that find a problem with his actions without... more... - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Chris: and Mike, in the second show, explained why he was asking that. Techcrunch didn't get a review unit and his theory is that Palm is only giving review units to people who are saying nice things about Palm. - Robert Scoble

On the early access units, how in the hell is anyone (Scoble, McCracken, Ubergizmo) supposed to review anything early without early access units. It's not a gift, it's a loaner. - C. Jason Mancebo

Chris: I'm calling Leo now. - Robert Scoble

I think Leo was right in getting mad - Johnathan Schultz

Ask Leo to come in here - Lise

Come on guys. If you haven't watched the second show, you're blowing in the wind. - Nick in Manila

This talk of super-scary Friendfeed "mobs" is all a little hyperbolic. - Christopher A Carr

Leo should not have said such inflammatory things.. Even if he was pissed off he could have handled himself in a professional manner on the air - Jason Pollock

mike totally clarified himself and leo apologized for taking it the wrong way. - Tobias Lewsadder

A promoter is not a journalist. Much of what I see on TC, and here and elsewhere illustrates that YOU are buzzing things, creating hype which in part drives it forward. The coverage ought to be balanced though, and it's going to likely lead to unfortunate and unnecessary consequences. This might shed a bit of light on it. http://bit.ly/LfVJk - Kenneth Stein

Jason: I hate the review unit thing. Walt Mossberg got his weeks ago. - Robert Scoble

I guess nobody takes Sunday evenings with their families these days, eh? - Ken Sheppardson

Johnathan: Leo's anger was justified, yeah, but how he expressed it was a bit much. But how the way the mob took it as a call to action, that's bad. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I think it should be stressed that Leo can't be held responsible for anything anyone else says. On the irc chat, here wherever. - Vlad Bobleanta

It is really too bad the conversation went bad. Mike really did have some good questions to ask about how business ethics and free products review or not. He just started the conversation really badly - Kim Landwehr

leo's language on the air incited the hate comments that techcrunch got - Jason Pollock

HI Liza, well, I see it yes and no....this specific thing is a good example of "you don't get to be a shit stirrer and get away with it forever". - C. Jason Mancebo

Christopher: A mob is a mob, online or off. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Lise, getting threats like that is something no one should go through, I agree. People should act with civility. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Interesting post of Mike Arrington(The New York Times Sunday edition): The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism :http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Johni Fisher

On the AIR? Lol there's no FCC regulation yet....I'll refrain from scribing the 7 deadlies here - Kenneth Stein

Looked to me like he was being a jerk and got called on it "what are you going to do about it?" is not the kind of retort that should pass between two adults. That being said, it also looks like Leo has decided to move on so should the rest of us. - J. Abdul-Qahhar

Vlad: That's true, but he can still encourage them to act more responsibly. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

J Abdul, I think the "what are you going to do about it" was still when Mike thought it was all kind of a joke - Lise

Scoble, it's not like they but a hundy in the package and say "review away" :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

No one's going to move on until there's something else to talk about ;) Come on WWDC! - Bwana ☠ from IM

Offline mobs hurt more when they hit you with an actual physical object, as opposed to pissy comments variety of assault from dangerous Friendfeed "mobs." - Christopher A Carr

Ken S, I just fired up the grill. Great day on the coast in HMB today. BBQ and wine happens soon :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

we all benefit from the work that mike does. tech crunch has been a daily read for me for years... although you may disagree with some of his methods, is wishing him death really appropriate - Tobias Lewsadder

C. Jason: They don't have to. Just having the thing before everyone else creates an incentive for acting non-ethically. After all, they give you a review unit (even one you need to return) because you gave them a good review might encourage you to keep giving good reviews for the opportunity to play with the latest gadgets first. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris: Yes, and I think he should. Let's just keep in mind, those are just random people who he probably never met. And in the case of the irc chat, are mostly anonymous. Which is part of the problem imo. - Vlad Bobleanta

Tobias, i think we all agree that the backlash has gone to far...yes, - C. Jason Mancebo

Actually, research idicates that being teased and taunted oftentimes is more painful than being hit. - Kenneth Stein

Who were these random people anyway? Friendfeed regulars, or blow-ins? - George Hall (Australia)

I agree, and i think this onslaught has gone on far enough - Johnathan Schultz

Time to man up Arrington. The storm's here and.... Oohh look, another iPhone rumor - Bwana ☠ from IM

George, I'm sure some were FF regulars. I don't think because you have a FF account it makes you of right mind. heh Unfortunately. - Lise

Just a computer engineer, patent attorney, developing some tech - Kenneth Stein

@George Hall: Gillmor Gang regulars. - 321

"Onslaught?" Please. - Christopher A Carr

People need to get a tiny bit of perspective instead of social media tunnel vision - Nathan Cooprider

One thing I would really like to see come from this is that folks like Arrington with the "Not quite so stringent, shoot first retract later" ethics understand that people give a shit about that and it's not cool. - C. Jason Mancebo

George Hall: mostly non-regulars, or that was my impression at least. But not exclusively. Arrington is easy to hate, that's the truth. And some people just need to hate something. Or someone. That is all. - Vlad Bobleanta

Its just feels like this has gone a little to far - Johnathan Schultz

Tobias, but I'm not sure that we wouldn't benefit MORE from TC if it was a bit less "NY POST" ish - C. Jason Mancebo

The whole evening Gilmore Gang put everything into context. It was really interesting, lots of questions and talking points raised regarding technology reporting, journalistic integrity and consumed content. Even a discussion about the GG show itself. It's unfortunate that a few people ran with the 1 minute clip and formed an opinion without looking at the whole day in context. - Benjamin Taylor

I want to make a quick statement, because this is how it seems to be framed here for some. Just because we are choosing to criticize him doesn't mean we are part of a mob or are threatening him. The debate should not be framed as Arrington versus bloodsucking Friendfeed mob. There is no defense for threats, online or off. No one is debating that that I have seen. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

@Johnathan Schultz: It has, but what are us bored geeks with too much time on their hands to do? - 321

jason: agreed - Tobias Lewsadder

Scoble, pretty great day on the coast for an Arrington discussion, no :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

I do have to say that this whole incident is the reason I've came over to FF permanently. - kenneth glenn

Benjamin: agreed. Eric: death threats is a mob in my book. Noone is referring to criticism, but rather to threats and mindless stuff. - Vlad Bobleanta

If someone has actually threatened his safety, that's one thing, but I must say I found it almost funny that he was so upset over terrifying Friendfeed "mobs." - Christopher A Carr

anyone know arrington for an extended period of time? has he always been like this? - Tobias Lewsadder

Vlad, right, death threats are wrong, but that doesn't make me or anyone here criticizing this incident as part of the mob. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

shiftoptionk - that is the core of the issue :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

I think that many people just took the opportunity to join in on the "I hate you Arrington" bandwagon when that started yesterday. Today they're all probably busy in Google Reader (even though RSS is apparently dead) reading the latest TechCrunch posts. - 321

I seem to remember a techcrunch article Mike did weeks back about a different issue...one where he took a principled stand. I wonder if non-regular mob making threats relates more to that than the Gilmour gang thing. - George Hall (Australia)

We're reaching again. Terrifying mobs? Where did that come from? He was getting abused, wasn't seeing any real poing to sharing stuff here, so he deleted the account. It makes his life easier. We're sorta going off the deep end... once again. - Ken Sheppardson

@Christopher No one wants to read death threats about themselves. Real or otherwise. - Glenn Trtanj

bwana: elaborate please - Tobias Lewsadder

shiftoptionk - it was a buildup. This is how Arrington is. Leo got tired of it. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Some days you can take it, some days you blow up - Bwana ☠ from IM

afterwards, they made up..but you can believe Arrington will do it again - Bwana ☠ from IM

Bwana, absolutely agree...lots of folks obviously tire of it. - C. Jason Mancebo

i know he has been like this for a while but im askking if this was the type of guy he was before getting into this business or has the business changed him - Tobias Lewsadder

Ken: This is yet another overreaction, yes. This weekend is really something. However some people do take bad things very personally, and maybe Mike is one of them. Dunno, I haven't met him. - Vlad Bobleanta

Personally, I think TechCrunch on FriendFeed is better as a room anyway. It enforces the separation between a person and their business. That said, I do hope that Mike comes back, and that everyone behaves civilly when he's around. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Excuse me, but if Arrington didn't say anything that stirred the pot, it'd be boring in here - George Hall (Australia)

optionshiftk - that I don't know - Bwana ☠ from IM

George: Damn right. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

And I would ask, on a different note, if someone called out you're ethics in the work that puts food on your table in front of everyone at your place of work, plus or minus 50,000 people, how would you react? With anger I bet. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

I have a shiny drama button here for those that are bored - Bwana ☠ from IM

We need something like http://instantrimshot.com that automatically generates FF drama. - Ken Sheppardson

@George Hall (Australia): Indeed, gives us something to talk about until tomorrow. People just seem to be over analysing all of this. - 321

Chris, I don't agree with your logic on early access = incentive for ethical problems. Lot's of folks get early stuff. The only issue that I see is lots of FALSE POSITIVE reviews by lot's of up and comers...but not the Leo Laportes of the world. - C. Jason Mancebo

And for those that want real drama, please refer to the french fry vs onion rings vs tater tots debate: http://ff.im/3H1oA - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

If anyone thought Friendfeed was JUST Robert Scoble, they missed half the point. It was equal amounts Scoble AND Arrington. The thrust and parry of the differing viewpoints sometimes. - George Hall (Australia)

cstechcast - Yeah, some people think it's excusable because it's "interesting" and it's entertaining. I don't, but that doesn't change the situation though. I never liked the way Arrington did his thing, but I doubt he cares and I doubt it'll affect his career. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Eric: no. And Leo wouldn't have done it angrily if it wasn't for the feeling that he was being Mike's target. When you get questioned, you keep your cool and explain. Leo said exactly this tonight. - Vlad Bobleanta

C. Jason: A false positive review IS an ethical violation, BY VIRTUE OF BEING FALSE. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George, Arrington was really never on Friendfeed. He was not active here. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

His account was. - George Hall (Australia)

posted some thoughts on this in the longer post here http://friendfeed.com/parisle... - MG Siegler

and he was a part of Robert' - George Hall (Australia)

s best posts. - George Hall (Australia)

Vlad, that is the logical thing to do, but that would not be most people's gut reaction. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

MG: Well played. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

You can't be putting feelings before facts, I like facts. - Colin

Arrington wasn't sitting around on FF all day, but he was here. There were several comments from him over the past few days. - Ken Sheppardson

Colin: Sure you can put feelings before facts. If you couldn't, politicians would be out of work. ;) - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I got along just fine on FriendFeed without Arrington - but that's not really a big thing - Bwana ☠ from IM

We all have to step away at times... I wouldn't delete my account, but I'm not Mike Arrington - Bwana ☠ from IM

Scoble, have you seen MA's comments on TC? He's admitting to saying "We were promised one but it wasn’t delivered" but the comments are targeted at LL, not at Palm. That's completely shit stirring. Just not necessary. - C. Jason Mancebo

that's why I'm not trying to understand his POV ...or Leo's... it's their business - Bwana ☠ from IM

@Lise not really something you say in jest... Those are or (at least were) what the old folks used to call "fighting words" and the only real reason to say them to someone is a) the two people in question are physically separated or b) the one person doesn't think the other is actually going to do any thing. - J. Abdul-Qahhar

Bwana, I agree, we talk about this and I guess it's proof stirring the pot gets you your celebrity. Next stop, reality show. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

bingo - Bwana ☠ from IM

it's all one big drama button until WWDC ;) - Bwana ☠ from IM

Well that's my hokmah moment for the day, I'll be over here watching the game - Bwana ☠ from IM

I agree with @Bwana but this happens everytime Mike thinks he's going to read something he doesn't like..just as right before he deleted TC's friendfeed account. We may not know him as a person but his actions have always preceeded him. - John Blanton from twhirl

Just talked with Leo. He hadn't realized this was all still cooking, but admits that people have said some really horrid things. - Robert Scoble

J Abdul, I completely disagree. Of course you can say that in jest. You can even, as Mike assumed, throw F bombs at someone... in jest. - Lise

Now that he does know, I hope that he'll come out and say something about it, see if he can put the whole matter to rest finally. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

When I called Leo he answered "are you calling me on your Pre?" Ahhh, the fun we have behind the scenes. ;-) (I wasn't, my Pre is charging). - Robert Scoble

i think leo is focused on wwdc - Tobias Lewsadder

Big tech boys and their toys...and the surrounding jealousy :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert, you still haven't done anything with that Pre, my god! Aren't you curious to play with it? heh - Lise

On twit earlier he was laughing and thought it had all blown over - Jack

Lise: I took some pictures on it today and will do a writeup later. - Robert Scoble

Jack: yeah. I told him these were aftershocks like what happens after a big earthquake. - Robert Scoble

i saw that it syncs with itunes... does it sync calendar and address book thru itunes or thru isync? - Tobias Lewsadder

Anyway, I gotta go, otherwise Maryam is gonna go off on me in public and that won't be fun either. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Robert - just don't walk off of her show! - jeneane sessum

Cya Robert! - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Calacanis made a joke on Twit today when Leo began talking about the Pre, my senses stepped up and became more sensitive for a second there. - Colin

Robert, see ya. Can't wait to hear about the Pre! - Lise

later scoble - Tobias Lewsadder

I was hoping he would set the record straight. It's hard to counter a 90 second youtube clip and the hour follow up with Arrington yesterday isn't widely availible. - Jack

I suspect readers/viewers would have hated the vast majority of reporters from Benjamin Franklin on if they saw the man behind the news then, the way we often can now. Journalism isn't a gentile profession. If you don't want arrogance, then go get your news from a convent. Otherwise, expect and accept that these people are who they are and, for the most part, you get higher quality, more hard hitting news because of it. So appreciate that Arrington is an arrogant ass and leave him alone. - Dawn

Robert here's the thing .. we're all huge fans of Leo and how can we not have something to say about this for good or for ill? - John Blanton from twhirl

Robert's original point was that Arrington copped a tremendous amount of mob attack including threats to Arrington. Sounds interesting for what was essentially a small and resolved issue between him and Leo. I have to wonder if the mob were actually Facebook hategroups pretending to be friendfeeders, since Mike did write an article on Techcrunch about the fact Facebook allows hate groups a say. - George Hall (Australia)

Gee,that quietened everyone. Is the silence the sound of people thinking? - George Hall (Australia)

So... how long until we get a Laporte/Christian Bale mashup? - Jack

I was just thinking about the earthquake analogy...is it a force of nature, if it were not for this thread, would we be talking about this? - Benjamin Taylor

I think most folks walked away after they realized that Robert actually did go AFK to spend time with his family. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Jack: LOL. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

If your a public figure such as an editor of a magazine, you need thicker skin this. This seems to be a reoccuring thing. People say bad things about him and he goes away. If he didn't want the negative comments or feedback maybe he should stop being such an asshole. He attracts this even when not saying crap about people. He gets what he deserves. Leo gets crap as well and i have not see him leave. He just moves on and tries to prove himself in his work. With respect on top of it all. - CW™

In real terms, it's Arrington's job to create buzz and pot-stir. So is that a reason for him to get such a mob reaction and threats? No. - George Hall (Australia)

And if there's one thing that won my respect for him it was that stand he took weeks ago on that Facebook issue. - George Hall (Australia)

While Arrington might have expected a backlash from Facebook users, here was where he least expected it. - George Hall (Australia)

Speaking of mob in a gentler way...does everyone HAVE to go quiet when Robert leaves the conversation? - George Hall (Australia)

angrykeyboarder: why was FF never meant to be used like Robert uses it? He gets some interesting conversation going. - George Hall (Australia)

Most people are probably here looking for Scoble's attention, and want him to respond to them personally. - Jack

Robert also feels strongly about what happened to Mike, as for whatever else, they're friends. And he's allowed to defend his friend. - George Hall (Australia)

angrykeyboarder: Discussion is EXACTLY how FriendFeed is supposed to be used. I don't see a blog post here. I see Robert starting a conversation, and contributing his two cents here and there. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George, haha I went quiet when Robert left. I just assumed the whole thing would go quiet. Plus, you know Robert can keep a conversation going. - Lise

+1 Chris. - George Hall (Australia)

I wonder if Robert hopes we'll keep a thread going without him once in a while. - George Hall (Australia)

George: LOL, probably. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George: yes. :-) - Robert Scoble

LOL - Lise

If anyone hasn't heard part 2 of the Gillmor Gang it's here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Angrykeyboarder: this IS my blog on the topic. :-) - Robert Scoble

+1 Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

People who know Mike: Do you think he'll cool down and come back to FriendFeed? - Bruce Lewis

What a wknd ..sooo strong feelings - Johni Fisher

I hope Mike DOES come back. I miss his feeds already. - George Hall (Australia)

I stopped reading TechCrunch some time last year, but started following it on FriendFeed after Mike's month in Hawaii. My impression is that depth/quality has gone up. Not that I did a scientific study or anything. - Bruce Lewis

Woah, I thought I was going to have to ask the question, but it seems the impression I got is coming out in the end. I felt certain that Leo had learned from the past to recognize the Arrington pattern, and that he saw some familiar threads and immediately kicked the loom out of the weaver's hands. In my reading of past things that don't even involve Leo, Arrington's been a subject of... more... - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Intellectual or professional disagreement doesn't have to mean personal disagreement. While I'd disagree on some of Mike's points, I have nothing against the man personally. And there's still a fair amount of stuff he's written I DO agree with. The Facebook hate group article for one. That shows Mike has principles. - George Hall (Australia)

Thanks for that audio link, Jack... and Robert, I haven't blogged much lately either, but I did in this case... without hearing part2 first! - Richard ¿digame? Walker

People disappoint. I am no fan of Mike Arrington's, but I wish him no ill either. To have even one person wish him cancer or otherwise is just awful. With that said, I no longer buy the "he's a sensitive guy" routine. He's either a tough guy or he's a victim, and the victim seems to emerge when he's wrong. He has the power. He has the attention. He wields it. By his own admission, his... more... - Karoli

I wish him a little bit of ill will. Just minor ill will. Like maybe the apples he selects to be slightly less sweet than he was hoping for, or his timing chain to hop one tooth and make his car ride just a bit rough, or his shoe lace to break when he's tying them. - Matthew DeVries

lol @Matthew - Louis Simoneau

Fortunately, wishing cancer on someone is not going to make it happen. I could stand right next to Arrington, shut my eyes really tight and mentally chant "get cancer" for hours, and the only result would be indesputable proof of my utter stupidity. I'd have to laugh at the goofball who expressed such a sentiment. I would expend actual thought processes on the ones who wished for bodily harm, because those folks might bump into Arrington at a floor show or before or after a session at a conference. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

found this link at the same time I was listening to this: http://bit.ly/2nhNLw via @arrington and Leo afterword. Didn't see the link, apologies if it's already been posted. - motownmutt

I'm not sure why people hate Mike so personally, it's ok to disagree with him but Mike and TechCrunch seams to have a lot of hate aimed at them for no apparent reason. - DarknessFalls

motownmutt: thats a direct link to the second part of the show. It's from the "bootleg" feed (read:only feed) which includes the first part of the show, as well as last weeks show, and older shows: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Actually, it's already resolved between Leo and Mike anyway. And that's really where it should have stayed anyway. Resolved between those concerned. Doesn't need mob commentary afterwards, doesn't need threats to Mike, doesn't need the bullsh**. - George Hall (Australia)

I've been hiding all of these entries about Mike and Leo. I decided to read yours Robert because I know you. Here are some of my thoughts. First, I don't know either Mike or Leo and have never been influenced by either one of them. Second, I love listening to Leo's shows but cannot stand TechCrunch and the attitudes on that site. Third, Mike was the first (and only) person I... more... - LPH™ and his dog P™

@DarknessFalls, I think it was said that some people hold Arrington responsible for the failures of their ventures. He gives his opinion, & people listen (I think). If someone's project didn't make sense to Arrrington, and he said as much, it could hurt. Could the people in this flap be a different group? I hope so. @LPH: Interesting take you have there. You're saying the very post that I thought allowed Arrington and Leo to patch things up actually caused his problem with those who weren't involved? - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

LPH: Actually, Mike contributed in other ways. With the things he'd say to Robert, he'd get some real discussion moving anyway. And I liked his feed. Some of the best things I "liked" were Arrington's feed items. Mike didn't contribute? You mustn't have been paying attention. I'm sure Robert can tell you how Mike contributed in quieter, less noticeable ways to the discussions and other things. - George Hall (Australia)

I don't think channeling through Scoble is actually contributing...maybe that's just me. - Bwana ☠

BoringMage: Some people holding it against Arrington for pointing out major flaws in their products meant their products were flawed. People like Arrington voicing concerns can help them improve or come out with better. Sometimes a harsh critic can be your best friend. If what he says helps you come out with better. In which case, I think Mike was still in the right to voice concerns. - George Hall (Australia)

Palm, at the moment, really needs to have the Pre being a hit. But there's some design flaws in the hardware they're going to need to correct fast. That's a valid point. Otherwise I can see them being sued for having edges on the phone so sharp people can injure themselves. - George Hall (Australia)

I would like to know, in 100% honesty, how many people heard part 2 before commenting, including the apology? I admit - I did not hear it until a few minutes ago. Anyone want to chime in? - Liza

Bwana: sometimes, the greatest contributor is the one who sets things up for someone to kick a goal. - George Hall (Australia)

And, when Scoble's back in this discussion, I'm sure he'll tell people how much Arrington DID contribute in a quiet way. - George Hall (Australia)

@GeorgeH: I think what you said is exactly what the person who said Arrington was blamed for others' lack of success was trying to convey. Since I haven't done anything worthy of Arrington's notice, I wouldn't be trying to lay any blame at his feet, nor would I criticize him for pointing out problems, at least not if he let the organization know and gave the organizers a chance to address those concerns. @Liza: I listened to both and read the TC post yesterday. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Not sure what the big deal is on the TC FF account really is. Seemed like nothing but the TC RSS feed being piped into FF for likes and comments. - Rolf Schewe

Two ways to look at how a tech blog criticizing your product affects you. On a non-personal way, they show you you have a flaw. Whether privately telling you or publicly telling you, they're making you aware of it. If you take it personally, you don't improve your product, you just lash out at the messenger. - George Hall (Australia)

People from all types of disciplines follow the Tech Industry. Tech Industry Reviewers become brands that often influence our decisions as trending consumers to become early adopters of new products and services. The most popular brands will always receive benefits from the companies such as freebies, pre-release models, and exclusive (or first opportunity) interviews. The public... more... - thestaticfrost

Thanks for answering my question @boringmage - I was not sure what to think but wanted to see others' rationale, so I followed the stream. I had seen so much noise about it but not the audio part 2. This reshapes the reasoning. - Liza

George: he sure participated more here than Kara Swisher or Walt Mossberg. At some level, though, friendfeed is an aggregator and people deserve participation credit just for putting their feed in here. - Robert Scoble

At the moment I don't get paid for doing a tech review on my own blog. I simply look at the fact it does help if I've used or played with the thing I review. For the most part, I'll point out its good features. But where it has areas to improve, I'll also point those out, too. But someone feels they're going to complain because I point out one or two areas need something a tad better???? - George Hall (Australia)

Thanks for validating how much Mike did contribute, Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

The other part of this whole thing that bothers me is how Steve has been characterized as this guy who doesn't care about his listeners. If he didn't care about his listeners, he'd produce a show just like every other show out there. Instead he chooses to focus on what he views as important for his listeners to hear. He's been right far more often than he's been wrong, by the way. - Karoli

Geez, wonder if mainstream media ever gets this much discussion these days as much as this one show did. - George Hall (Australia)

If comments in here were ratings, the Gilmore Gang would be a number one show. - George Hall (Australia)

Perhaps it's time to get Gilmore Gang on a mainstream media channel... - George Hall (Australia)

George: Mainstream Media talks this way about themselves so they can justify their existence. - Owen Greaves

Why can't we have a rating system? I think we need a web rating system that encompasses comments too.... - Sid Burgess

Liza, I heard most of the post drama drama today on live.twit.tv on a repeat. Gilmore certainly was upset as well. Seemed to take the whole thing pretty personally as well. Not sure how that has turned out. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Sid: I would love an Internet-wide identity system. But that is really hard to do and get everyone to participate in. - Robert Scoble

Wait. Why is this interesting? - l0ckergn0me

Well, that crack that whip Scoble! :D Actually, I think it would have some self-momentum... people want ratings, advertisers want value... hmmm? - Sid Burgess

He deleted the account because he can't control the conversation. - Jim Posner

Man Google Wave would be so handy right now in a thread like this! - Sid Burgess

Oh no; then you'd see my spelling mistakes in realtime - Jack

;) @jack - Sid Burgess

@l0ckergn0me: I'm hoping to learn something so I can be half as big as you one day and not make the same mistakes that others make so publicly for me. So if I have something wrong, by all means correct me! [edit: I know you like helping people; help me! ;) ] - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

As an pretty unbiased 3rd party, I am wondering why so few responded to listening to part 2 on audio. I know I am not 'relevant' to the crew, but it is a fair question. - AND re: why is it interesting - EXACTLY, it is not interesting except that so many are interested, so as a curious person, I want to understand it. - Liza

Gee, imagine doing any reviews or critiques of any product if you felt constrained for pointing out it had a flaw or if you saw products to review given ONLY to those writing JUST good things. - George Hall (Australia)

Liza: the problem is the youtube video is 90 seconds long and the part 2 is over 1 hour - Jack

people dont have the patience to sit through that. Compare 112 thousand views, to 2 thousand clicks (so far) on the bit.ly link: http://bit.ly/info/2nhNLw - Jack

Jack - fair enough, but this is a 4 HOUR STREAM -and for some really strong opinions, if I were an "influencer", I sure would not say something w/o doing my research - Liza

That's exactly the problem here. Both you and I wouldn't give our opinions without the full picture. But the so called "influencers" just mouth off without doing the proper research, like the "problem" with blogging where unsubstantiated claims and heresay is published. - Jack

Is that like what M.A. does frequently? - C. Jason Mancebo

Actually, I think Arrington does do his research. - George Hall (Australia)

Michael does fact-check or tells people it is unconfirmed in the post, generally. - Neal Jansons from IM

That wasn't directed at Mike at all, he's an excellent blogger - Jack

+1 Jack. Mike does excellent blogs - George Hall (Australia)

George, I have to disagree. He's much more of a shoot from the hip and retract later if I get called on it type of guy. Tthe truth or the facts are good, but only if it's interesting and gets him some buzz. - C. Jason Mancebo

Perhaps it's more like being accused of rape then vindicated, people wil only remember the more sensational story. - Jack

Not directed at Michael or anyone in particular. I asked a simple question, who listened to part 2 audio and few answered. Not directed at anyone. - Liza

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it was interesting to hear Leo realize what the Gillmor Gang is really about in this second part: I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. Thoughts? - Jack

Liza, I think it might be a little late to expect a flood of comments. This is natural around here. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Who says geeks and nerds are dull? - George Hall (Australia)

Those who are not geeks/nerds :) - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

@Jack: At first I couldn't figure out where you got that impression, but now I wonder if you're talking about the part where Leo was (if I recall correctly) saying to Steve that he got the impression that what was happening in the show wasn't what Steve wanted happening in the show, and when he was asking him what he wanted to do about it (with someone saying it doesn't have to be discussed right there in public). Is that what you're referring to? - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

If I had already been physically assaulted (spit on), had my family threatened, and then had a mob of people come after me online - deleting an account on a social network probably would be a quick decision. - Matthew McCowan

I mean that Leo was expressing his concern over the high amounts of drama on the show, which he disliked and thinks can be advoided, to which Steve and Robert explained was inevitable and part of the show. - Jack

I need to go listen more, methinks. Just not tonight. Gotta be at work in 8 hours. I can seriously understand not expecting drama, though. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

I predict GG moves over to Mahalo. - Jim Posner

Oh, wait, I forgot that screaming, mean vlogger guy is on that show; of COURSE there will be drama! - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Jim: that actually seems like a good fit for the show. i personally think steve should find a way to host it so he can have full control. - Tobias Lewsadder

Could also be an interesting get for B43. - Jim Posner

Reminds me how silky things can get over objects/tech. In Australia you can get fist fights over Ford and Holden (GM) - George Hall (Australia) from BuddyFeed

The show has been very different since it came to Twit. Much more tamed down. This week was almost a return to form, except that Leo ended the show. One of my favourite pre twit shows was when all the other hosts were laying into Scoble for wasting a year of his life on Friendfeed. He was right in the end of course, but the confict that sparks heated debates is why I started listening to the show. - Jack

Guess it's never boring, then. - George Hall (Australia)

It's a shame he felt he needed to. It's a bad decision which is an unfortunate one. - James Stratford

Robert I got to agree w/you on Techcruch. Did u read about: TechCrunch's Notes | The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism http://ff.im/3HS0e - polou/indigo_bow

Ryo: A few months down the track you'll probably be playing with a crunchpad. And you'll be thinking it a nice piece of tech...but are you going to throw it away when you realize Arrington's associated with it? There are trolls and there are trolls. I don't think Arrington was a troll. Pot-stirrer yes. Troll no. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: I totally disagree with you. Techcrunch has helped many many companies launch and provides a valuable service in getting lots of people to pay attention to the tech industry. Arrington is far far from a troll. Is he a jerk sometimes? Yes. But just being hard to live with does NOT make one a troll and neither does bringing up a good argument once in a while. But to try to claim that that's all Techcrunch does is simply false and I won't let it stand in the comment thread that I started. - Robert Scoble

Makes me wonder if Ryo knows who defaced Arrington's wikipedia page... - George Hall (Australia)

the ip addresses are there in the history George - Chris Heath

Hope Wikipedia rectifies it. - George Hall (Australia)

Arrington really opened up a lot in that conversation with Leo. I think his explanations there really explained a lot on why he has to wear a thick skin and act the way others perceive at times. The way he manned up and apologized to Leo I think was very impressive. I will forever see him in different eyes now - I really respect Arrington since yesterday. - Jesse Stay

And Robert, have you consoled Tina yet? she seemed pretty down in here recent tweet: http://friendfeed.com/tinagil... - Chris Heath

Jesse, me too - Chris Heath

There's a few of us who have a lot of respect for Arrington and his principles. - George Hall (Australia)

George, a few million you mean, right? - Chris Heath

Robert: If Mike Arrington feels THAT strong about 'the mob' - why didn't he delete his Twitter feed too? Could it be the hundreds of thousands of followers he has been 'gifted' because of his 'special relationship' with the Twitter guys? - Jim Connolly

That too, Chris. You probably have a better idea than me of exact numbers. - George Hall (Australia)

It's sad too that all this fuss over a mere misunderstanding in a show gets so out of hand, because it affects the families, too. Sad because it's sorted out between Mike and Leo, but a whole bunch of people outside of it take things too far. Seriously, nobody had any right to make threats to Mike. - George Hall (Australia)

I just hope everyone can forgive and can move on with good stories and news. - Darren Lowery

Ryo: That's you. Me, I'm itching to own a crunchpad. - George Hall (Australia)

The Tech News Blog (when do we get to know your real name?) I'm sure he looked at the results he was getting, and I'm 100% sure he was seeing night and day results better on Twitter than FriendFeed. I'm sure he weighed his losses, and FriendFeed wasn't worth the negative brand image when compared to the traffic he was getting. Mike's a business man - I highly doubt it was anything personal. - Jesse Stay

I really cannot understand all this vehemence against Arrington. Neither can Robert, either, nor a fair few Friendfeed regulars. And Ryo, I really do not understand where your vehemence towards him comes from. - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: My name only changed here a few days ago, it's Jim Connolly - full contact details here http://jimsmarketingblog.com/contact... FriendFeed has not given Arrington a negative brand image - he did. - Jim Connolly

Ryo, to understand him I think you really have to put yourself in his shoes. He's had a whole lot of people be jerks to him. I'm sure that would get to you. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: So, if he's so worried about what the mob are saying about his brand, why isn't he worried about his brand on Twitter? - Jim Connolly

Guess you didn't read the right articles, Ryo. - George Hall (Australia)

Jim, I'm sure he couldn't afford to lose Twitter - that's my guess. FriendFeed I doubt was doing much for him, at least in his eyes. - Jesse Stay

Ryo, would I be an asshole for having something against hate groups? And if I did, would you still be saying it's my fault for *insert whichever reason*? - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: I have no problem with him leaving FriendFeed, I just call bullshit on him suggesting it was the mob that drove him out. If it was the mob, he would have left Twitter, where they are REALLY attacking the guy. For the record, as a Tech News blogger myself, I have a lot of respect for what he has achieved. - Jim Connolly

Many people on the Interwebs are idiots--just look at nearly any YouTube comment! I'm not sure I buy that Arrington is that sensitive about how people have reacted--he's an Internet professional and he more than anyone should understand these outrageous, hate-filled comments are just a bunch of blowhard a-holes. That being said, Arrington had an opportunity to stop Leo and clear the... more... - Paul Salzman

Paul: I know Mike and talked with him at length this morning, both on phone and face to face. He's actually pretty sensitive, but puts on a tough face. It's an interesting part of his personality to see. - Robert Scoble

Ryo: do you buy Apple products? Jobs is a bigger jerk than I've seen Arrington ever be. Ryo: name one newcomer Arrington destroyed. Just one. I'd love to hear his/her story. - Robert Scoble

The Tech News Blog: good point about Twitter. I think Arrington likes that he has half a million followers there while me and Leo have been kicking his ass here on friendfeed (I was kicking his ass on Twitter too, before Twitter added him to the recommended follower list, which zoomed him above me and Leo). - Robert Scoble

TechCrunch leaving Friendfeed is sad, because even when we disagree with each other, it is nice to have a discussion going. - Mike Chelen

Robert: I know about you and Leo kicking is butt on Twitter before the recommended list started. (I have been chatting with you on Twitter for well over a year now!) - Jim Connolly

Robert: Re Twitter followers, seen this from earlier: http://www.thetechnewsblog.com/2009... - Jim Connolly

On Twitter Mike's personal account http://twitter.com/arrington has a mere 5 thousand followers, it is the TC account with 680 thousand, whilst on FF he had his personal twitter as well as TC feeding in. See the google cache here: http://209.85.229.132/search... - Jack

The Tech News Blog: engagement levels on Twitter are interesting, agreed. I've seen the bot behavior too. Twitter's team seems unconcerned. Ryo: it's bullshit to say you were destroyed by TechCrunch. If anything getting Arrington to say negative things about you focuses the world's attention on you and people (especially his competitors) rush to check out whether or not he's correct. If he wasn't right, that guy would have gained even more followers. - Robert Scoble

Jack: the TC account used to be Mike's personal Twitter account before that account got added to the recommended follower list. Now he's used that just to stream TC links. He used to have conversations with lots of us on Twitter in the old days using that account. - Robert Scoble

It's ironic, though, that getting half a million people to follow you means you can't even get 10,000 people to follow your other account. The engagement isn't there. Getting engagement is much more difficult than most people understand. - Robert Scoble

Ryo, have you ever considered that the example you've just quoted probably didn't have a great product to begin with, or may have had stuff that really needed more work? If the product's good, no blogger with influence would really affect things. But if he points out a potential product needs major work or is complete crap, go get the product right and stop blaming messengers like Arrington. - George Hall (Australia)

George: exactly right. I totally bashed Amazon's first Kindle. it still sold very well because it did have real value (it just was designed poorly). The Amazon team was never as nice to me after that, but I know people who bought it after watching my review and deciding I was wrong about the device, so in the end, I'm pretty sure I helped them out more than I hurt them. A great product withstands all criticism. - Robert Scoble

Exactly, Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

I'm going to have to take issue with you there Robert. Respected reviewers CAN affect the success of a product. That's why we must demand that they review ethically and thoughtfully. - invariant - farewell FF

Ryo, sounds like you didn't hear the aftermath gillmor gang session on saturday http://ia311238.us.archive.org/3... - Chris Heath

Don't forget about the first part: http://www.archive.org/downloa... Mike spoke very kindly about Rajeev Motwani before the shouting began. - Jack

Friendfeed is better than Twitter, yet he wants to stay with Twitter, COZ its driving traffic to his blog and nothing else - Michael_techie

invariant: we can have some impact, yes, but if only one person is picking on something and is picking on something wrongly it can often have the opposite effect. A good product WILL stand up to Mike Arrington or anyone else for that matter. - Robert Scoble

well what he said after in the second session was serious too - and he claims the pre stuff was in jest and misunderstood - Chris Heath

Chris: he didn't quite say "in jest" but that he was trying to point out that Palm sends review units to those who have given Palm a good set of PR over the last few months. He might actually have a point there but that point was lost both because Arrington started pushing Leo's buttons and because Leo responded to that with an outburst that I haven't seen Leo do ever (and I've been following Leo since the mid 1990s). - Robert Scoble

right robert... but the 'what are you gonna do about it?' he claims was in jest - Chris Heath

Chris: yeah. That's just Mike being Mike. He does the same thing with me to try to push my buttons. Sometimes he succeeds with me too. ;-) - Robert Scoble

and robert... one question about the PR stuff... isn't it fully in Palm's rights and best interests to give out review units as they see fit? isn't that the point of PR? to get the review units out to those you think will give the best reviews? - Chris Heath

Robert, I don't know about that. Something from a company like Amazon, sure. They have the muscle to keep it going. But something from a startup running on a shoestring? A bad review from the right person could kill it. Look at what Engadget/Gizmodo (I can't remember which) did to the Folio - a product that was a netbook a year or so before the Eee PC. - invariant - farewell FF

Chris: yes. And that's why the practice is a little dirty. - Robert Scoble

but isn't that to be expected as core part of what PR is? - Chris Heath

invariant: any company that has all of its hopes hinged on one review is a company that's setup to fail. When I bring out a product I'll assume I'm going to get bad reviews. In fact, that's what I'm expecting with building43. If someone bashes it it won't stop me. I'll learn from it and move on and make it better. - Robert Scoble

Yeah, but the Folio wasn't quite the EEEPC...it was just an oversized Palm Pilot. Not even with an adequate OS for the size of the thing. - George Hall (Australia)

kind of like the old saying don't hate the player, hate the game? - Chris Heath

Chris: I have come to hate a lot of what PR does. The good ones are very helpful and fair to all comers. - Robert Scoble

But the bad ones... - Robert Scoble

right robert, and if what you're selling is truly good then the product/service doesn't need PR then right? - Chris Heath

George: regarding the Folio: exactly. Bad products can't overcome bad reviews. - Robert Scoble

I still think if a review kills anything, the product wasn't right to begin with. And I know that from my cartooning experience over twenty years ago. Critics are harshest when something's clearly crap. You just can't afford to be precious about a creation that's crap. You take the criticism the proper way and go do a better product. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo seems to be hating the player and the messenger. Wonder if we should ask why. - George Hall (Australia)

Chris: if something really is great PR should only need to facilitate the press seeing it, finding that out, and holding it. I loved the Palm Pre as soon as I saw it on screen and nothing has changed my mind about that since. No PR person needed to give me one. Although the fact that they did made it easier to form an even deeper opinion that it's great. - Robert Scoble

Yikes! - Fred Davis

George: remember, I've been at the harsh end of Arrington's stick. You should go read what he said about PodTech. What he said stung and hurt but it was right and the company wasn't going in a good direction. Arrington just helped everyone's attention focus on that. Could we have pulled it out without that attention? Maybe, but I doubt it in hind site. - Robert Scoble

Palm still need to do something about the sharp edges, though - George Hall (Australia)

night everyone... cy'all later - Chris Heath

Are you saying it's impossible for a great product to fail due to negative publicity? Color me incredulous. - invariant - farewell FF

George: I'm playing with a Pre right now and I don't think the edges are overly sharp. If they did something about them it would pronounce the gaps where the phone slides together. - Robert Scoble

invariant: name a great product that failed due to negative publicity and let's talk. - Robert Scoble

Sometimes even if an idea is ours, it might need work...or it might be crap. Sometimes it's good someone points that out to us. I don't mind a good critic. They're great for getting your idea more focused and improved. - George Hall (Australia)

Robert: was watching a review that showed the edges when opened are sharp enough to cut cheese. - George Hall (Australia)

George: must be really soft cheese. Geesh. - Robert Scoble

Lol - George Hall (Australia)

I mean, can't we all just get along? But then again, I do remember learning as a journalist that controversy sells... even if it does come at a price... - Fred Davis

Exactly, Fred. Heck, a bit of negative publicity actually sells more things... - George Hall (Australia)

George: even there, though, if I read that review that the Palm Pre had sharp edges, all it would make me do is go and hold one and see if they bugged me. If they did, I'd get an iPhone or a Blackberry. If not, well, sold! If that's the worst thing they can say about the Palm Pre, it's actually doing pretty damn well! On the other hand, now I'm going down to the kitchen to see if mine will cut cheese. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

LOL. Palm Pre as cheese knife...now there's a hitherto-unknown use for it. - George Hall (Australia)

Heck,most of us here WANT to see the Palm Pre do well...and Palm themselves. But we'd all like to hope they do listen when some of us do point out where it needs a fine-tune. - George Hall (Australia)

Palm Brie? - Mel Buckpitt

Hmmm....Ryo...you can put NO to most of your questions. I just dislike when someone makes a personal attack on a guy for doing his job. Or when he's blamed for some person's misperception of how much influence he has over whether a product sells or not. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: interesting that you use the same tactics that Arrington used with Leo. That's sorta weird. - Robert Scoble

I still maintain that the Folio was one of those products. It was a netbook before we even knew what to call them, and it was killed before it was even released by a web site that couldn't imagine the utility of a small, low cost portable. It may have had flaws, but so did the first Eee PC. Who knows what it could have become? - invariant - farewell FF

Yeah, Robert, but we at least knew where Arrington was coming from. - George Hall (Australia)

invariant: the eeepc had a linux/unix operating system with a fair amount of useability. The Folio was, to all intents and purposes, just a larger Palm. Huge difference. And at the time it was brought out, Palm OS was a bit limited. - George Hall (Australia)

invariant: well, maybe they shouldn't have shown it to Engadget first. There's lots of others who would have been able to push it along. But some products are simply before their times. Folio didn't excite me and I saw it. I agree with George. Failed OS. Heck, even Palm has given up on that OS. - Robert Scoble

That's not true George. It was based on a linux os just like the Eee. - invariant - farewell FF

Ryo, your comments on Arrington have been accusing him of being a troll. To me, that's treating Arrington a little too personal. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: I read all comments and seems to me you're doing the same thing as Arrington. - Robert Scoble

I agree that spiteful comments are not the best way, but at the same time, Mike Arrington really shouldn't have jumped on such a bandwagon. At any rate, I hope that things douse soon!! - Guru Panguji

Actually, Ryo, your comments about Arrington sound very hateful. - George Hall (Australia)

Hmmm...Ryo...pick a number and join the queue. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo, I've been threatened by experts on occasion. I note you don't seem to have any Facebook. Interesting ommision from your list of web/social media concerns. - George Hall (Australia)

You could defend anything the same way. "Well, it got bad reviews because it was a bad product." But to say that reviews have no effect on the success of a product is mind-boggling to me. Why is there an entire industry based on reviewing products if those reviews have no impact on the product's success? - invariant - farewell FF

Good products improve after a bad review. - George Hall (Australia)

George - Or maybe the company's backers lose faith and pull their funding, drowning the baby before it has a chance to grow up. - invariant - farewell FF

if the backers do that, then they don't think the product's worth going with. Whereas a good product won't lose backers. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: name one great product that was kept down by a bad review. Almost every great product has gotten a bad review. - Robert Scoble

Anyway, I'm outta here. Ryo: you can have the last word. It seems you're just pushing my buttons and I have an Apple thread to attend to. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

George, you have a very altruistic view of business. Products get killed all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with how good they are. We'd all be playing games on the Sega Dreamcast II if that weren't the case. - invariant - farewell FF

Admittedly, invariant. Guess I'm still a fan of honest business. - George Hall (Australia)

I seem to remember someone making a mint out of a crap operating system... - George Hall (Australia)

...but by the same token, over the long term, a great product fights back. - George Hall (Australia)

Well take the Dreamcast for example: If Sega would have had more capital they could have kept that business going and potentially been successful, but they just ran out of money. Had nothing to do with the product itself, it had more to do with the business model (i.e. losing money on every console sold). - invariant - farewell FF

And also because another business (Electronic Arts) decided not to support it. - invariant - farewell FF

I think, Invariant, you've pointed out it has less to do with reviews. Bad product OR bad business model. Too easy to fail. Less to do with the review or the reviewer. - George Hall (Australia)

And still no reason to have personal gripes against the reviewer - George Hall (Australia)

George, absolutely. The Dreamcast example was one of a good product that failed, not because of reviews but because of other outside factors. The point is that the good guys do not always win. Reviewers should respect their power and be ethical when they review a product. That's my only point. - invariant - farewell FF

It's just trying to make someone like Arrington a scapegoat for a product - George Hall (Australia)

's troubles. - George Hall (Australia)

Whoa, that's not what I was trying to do at all. - invariant - farewell FF

Of course, a product maker should always expect a review may not always go the way they want... - George Hall (Australia)

Regardless of anything Mike's done in the past to piss people off, I felt bad when I read the update on his post. It's really seemed like he was shook up from the comments he received. Considering the nature of them, I can't blame him. This might seem trivial, but it’s obvious that he was worried or he would have taken the time to correct the punctuation in his update. From my perspective, he’s comes across like an extremely sensitive guy, who has a few issues to deal with, just like the rest of us. - Michael Fidler

I'm just pointing out that reviewers DO have power, and that power can both positively impact or negatively impact the success of a product. As a maker of video games I have direct experience with that. - invariant - farewell FF

I doubt he will do it, but he needs to make more time for himself. If he does, I’m sure he would be a lot less abrasive and a lot happier too. You work equally hard Robert, but you love what you do, and it shows. Does Mike love what he’s does, or is it just work for him now? - Michael Fidler

I don't think Arrington expected to see people behave with such bile and vehemence over such an issue. And of course that would upset him. And it upsets Robert, too, because Robert is still his friend, even if he and Mike occasionally have an intellectual disagreement. - George Hall (Australia)

To be clear I have NO opinion on Mike or the work he does. I assume he's an ethical reviewer and I haven't heard otherwise. I just wanted to address Robert's notion that a good product will succeed despite reviews. I simply do not believe that's true 100% of the time. - invariant - farewell FF

Heck, a few weeks back, Arrington and Techcrunch were the only ones who could tell me why Friendfeed was down for a few hours. Google couldn't. Not many other tech blogs could either. And I was glad he helped us stay informed on that situation. - George Hall (Australia)

I feel like a heel for not understanding the true nature of this thread before jumping in. Let me say this in response to the REAL discussion in this thread: people should be ashamed for attacking Mike over something that was obviously a misunderstanding between himself and Leo. I hope Mike shrugs this off and continues to do just what he does now. - invariant - farewell FF

I can't believe the Gillmor gang section is gone. A year's worth of podcasts, just gone. ? WTF? - Karoli from BuddyFeed

Gillmor Gang is back on itunes! http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... - Jack

Jack, glad to see it on iTunes. looks like NewsGang live is toast. I am so bummed. I'm going to bed. :( - Karoli

Or search "Gillmor Gang" in itunes and it's the one marked "Explicit" - Jack

It looks like some of the latest Gillmor Gangs, the ones that were only released live, are now available on iTunes. - Diego Barros 

Looking forward to listening to these. - Diego Barros 

Me too, not sure why the new feed though. The old feed is just sitting there doing nothing. - Matt Thompson

Matt, maybe the new feed's because the audio files (and feed) were living on TechCrunch's servers? Since gillmorgang.techcrunch.com is also gone? Not sure. - Diego Barros 

Leo is the holy Grail of tech for generations, to imply that he is even remotely dishonest is the same as calling all his fans dishonest and stupid, I admit I stopped following Techcrunch because of this incident, but I am not hating on Mike, I understand the jealous inner child in him made him say what he did, we all say bad things and a lynch mob is a little too far in this case. - URLREVIEWS

I think Leo was feeling bad enough for accepting a test unit and Mike's words just sent him over the edge, Leo is honest all the way, anyone who listen to his techguy show knows that, the guy even suggest free alternatives to some of his sponsors, how fan dedicated is that? Leo is Legend. - URLREVIEWS

It all comes down to comments, doesn't it? 1. Long comment threads on Friendfeed are a nightmare to read, especially on a handheld. Can somebody add a threading facility? 2. Anonymous on the internet needs to end. http://twittercism.com/anonymi... It's a poison, and it's the real story behind the Arrington/Laporte spat. - Shéa Bennett

I think the comments went way overboard in their criticism of Arrington. The angle he was approaching his questioning from (that Palm were withholding review units) was legit. Just a shame that there was a misunderstanding on Leos part to interpret it as a question of his integrity. - Jamie

The world is a hurting place and we find it much easier to attack others out of our own pain and dysfunction. Both people were sincere in their position, this example shows you how easy it is to be offended on both sides of the argument just by simply having a different perspective. It does appear Mike was questioning Leo's integrity even though the question was sincere in light of the story Mike was working on. I think we can move on and focus on more important issues. - Owen Greaves

Bloggers must go where the conversation is. TechCrunch is not real time. He'll be back. - Garin Kilpatrick

Maybe he will, maybe he won't but if he does, there's certainly no reason for anyone to smug and high horsey about it. We were the asshole on this matter, not him - and a strategic withdrawal from the forum was certainly warranted on his part temporary or permanent. - Matthew DeVries

Garin: I think Mike will come to regret deleting his account, just like Leo came to regret deleting his Twitter account. - Robert Scoble

He can always open a new one. - Amit Morson

Matthew: if I ever get to that point where I get tired of dealing with everyone here, I'll just go private. That way if I want to jump back in at a future date I'll still have my account here. I think Mike made a mistake in just deleting his account. Amit: he could, but someone already took the techcrunch URL. For a business to give that up seems to be not smart, but that's just me. - Robert Scoble

A few weeks ago I almost deleted my Twitter account and I'm glad I didn't for just that reason. - Robert Scoble

Robert - I am glad you didn't delete your twitter account ;) Just keep watering the FF garden instead ! - Susan Beebe

Robert - I'm not saying I condone his decision/action, just that I understand it. I'm sure if he were interested in reactivating/undeleting comments Paul et al would figure out a way to make it happen for him. Just that a barrier to his return is the potential for "told you you'd be back" smugness which is entirely unwarranted, and honestly prickish. - Matthew DeVries

Robert, he doesn't have to deal with everyone. There is no need to respond to each and every bad comment made at him. - Amit Morson

Robert: Mike may have lost 600 comments on TechCrunch but this thread already has 760 comments which makes it #1 on best of week, and we're all talking about TechCrunch. I'm impressed. Mike has already won from this move. - Garin Kilpatrick

Garin, considering his loses and TechCrunch scale, I can't see that as a win. - Amit Morson

Arrington has never liked FF, anyway. And what has being here done for him or Techcrunch? Has it increased his brand awareness, made him more money, got him laid? How can it be a loss when it's never been a gain? - Dawn

Amit: The comments Mike lost were stale, this is fresh and undoubtedly building awareness about Mike and TC. The only way Mike has lost is by dropping friendfeed, but at least he has done so in style. Even here he has not lost because as I said before: he'll be back. - Garin Kilpatrick

He lost his brand name, though I'm sure he can claim it back with FF. - Amit Morson

The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of FF. - Garin Kilpatrick

The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of <strike>FF</strike> all that he surveys. --FTFY Garin - Matthew DeVries

Abuse? I thought these tools were available to use however we wish. I didn't realize there are FF Nazis demanding that their use is the only legitimate use. - Dawn

Dammit Dawn...... - Matthew DeVries

lol Thanks Matthew! - Garin Kilpatrick

Can you say BUTTHURT? - Rustic Thoughts

Glad you waited for 771 comments and 4 days of thoughtful deliberation to bring us that nugget of well thought out brilliance Rustic. The staggering intellectual rigor of your timely, measured, and informed and above all unique point truly brings the discussion to a level that rivals that of the lycium or the Algonquin round table. - Matthew DeVries

Thats a lot of big words for so early in the morning. - Rustic Thoughts

"I didn't realize there are FF Nazi's demanding that their use is the only legitimate use" -- FINALLY... Jeez... I've been sitting here waiting patiently for Godwin's Law to kick it. It's been almost 48hrs since all this happened... must be a new record. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'm giving this thread a *facepalm* award for the multiple site/acct deletions (TC/FF & GG/TC), over-the-top comments, and of course Mr. "BUTTHURT" and use of the term "FF Nazi" http://friendfeed.com/ffacepa... - Richard ¿digame? Walker

What goes around comes around. Arrington is getting what he's been asking for, for a long time. - Chris Luckhardt

Totally tangential, but using BuddyFriend to read a thread with 771 comments really isn't a nice experience :) - Ian Betteridge from BuddyFeed

Actually a better idea would have been to make his account private - Abhishek

I can't find the Gillmor Gang section of TechCrunch... could that be removed too? (hopefully just temporarily) - John Wright

John: Yes, it's gone at the moment. - Ken Sheppardson

There's an unofficial Gillmor Gang podcast on itunes here: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... or the RSS here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

This is a tough situation. We all have reached the end of our patience at least once with someone that takes an effort to get along with, especially if we're exhausted by it. Some people are clueless about their impact on others. I've said things in those situations that I meant, but wished I had taken a higher road and said in a better way because it actually makes everything more stressful. - Keith Barrett

Keith: It wasn't just one or two people it was like 20+ people who didn't even know the full story and jumped on the band-wagon. Those 20+ people also didn't bother to read the "Ouch" post on Techcrunch or watch the 2nd Gillmor Gang - infact they probably didn't even watch the first one - they probably just saw the 1minute clip on Youtube. - Nicholas James

What a shame. What a shame this is still a mob. I've purposefully ignored this whole skirmish, having seen this coming a few weeks ago when the GG went to hell for an evening, and then another wee when Mike hung up and bailed on the show. It is a shame that Mike felt it necessary to delete his friendfeed account. It's also a shame that Mike seems to egg (mob)people on to the point of... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

invariant: the impact reviewers have is strongest on their readers, and their own reliability. if an author does not evaluate products honestly it will cause their audience, which may only be a small fraction of the total market, to make more poorly informed decisions and thereby undermines the value of their writing. - Mike Chelen

Robert - Thanks for starting this thread. The calm voices and mostly sensitive nature of the comments have helped me begin to heal. I am emerging from this very trying weekend a changed person, trampled by a crowd wearing combat boots. I now know how scary mobs are. - Tina Chase Gillmor

Tina: I once was in a real mob after a San Francisco 49er Super Bowl victory (I drove through it) and I've never been so terrified. It's interesting that my friend who told me off for pushing a mob a couple of years ago has been quiet with this mob. Ahh, I love studying how people work. Keep it up, let's get back in the saddle, what Steve, Mike, and you are doing is interesting. That's why the mob formed in the first place so don't forget that. - Robert Scoble

*sigh* mobs suck - Susan Beebe

If you have a mob that theoretically can be pushed at someone, you should be judged separately. It's like being a pro karate fighter - treated in court like a weapon. - Kirill Bolgarov

Oh, by the way. techcrunch sucks and so does mashable. of course it's my personal opinion, but they have gone too far in the battles over traffic and pageviews. their destination is a tabloid with a few to no real value. the only reason i could click on a ЕС link was a good discussion onver it on friendfeed. so, they completely lost at least one reader because of their CEO's personal stuff. that's not that professional i guess - Kirill Bolgarov

jbrotherlove

Total Eclipse of the Heart: Literal Video Version - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

June 8 from YouTube favorites - Comment - Like - Share

jeneane sessum and ♥patricia♥ liked this

i so lol-ed. next to play arrington off keyboard cat, this was my weekly favorite. - jeneane sessum

i'm actually afraid to watch this. - Lynne d Johnson

Leo Laporte to Leo's feed, TWiT Conversations

Live now: The Gillmor Gang with Steve Gillmor, Mike Arrington, Hugh McLeod, Andrew Keen, Kevin Marks, and Loren Feldman. http://live.twit.tv Discuss here...

June 6 - Comment - Like - Share

ravi karandeekar, Mark Young, Mike Schmidt and 183 other people liked this

how did he die ? - John Hillestad

1201 more comments

legal herion ? - John Hillestad

I don't wanna sound smushy but the world would be a worse place without Arrington, don't care if you guys love him or hate him xx - David Lloyd

Oh, just found this chat... thanks - Tina Chase Gillmor

wow - Karoli

kevin's link into live.twit.tv breaks - Karoli

my thoughts and prayers go out to his friends and family. also wish long life and good health to all of TWiT Army - Andrew Johnson

HI FROM GEORGIA GLAD YALL ARE OK - daveccorey

wow - David Lloyd

wow... - Chris Heath

I know serious Leo, that's serious Leo. - Mike Lewis

Holy Crap! - Bill Heslin

this will be news [edit: and it was http://www.google.com/search... & http://news.google.com/news... and personally I think Gawker had pretty good coverage of the whole dust-up http://gawker.com/5282089... ] - Chris Heath

no drama leo - Chris Heath

by that logic every person who revierws a product would be biased - David Lloyd

Techcrunch SUCKS! - Jason Hansen

wow! - John Hillestad

I'm so happy! - Jason Hansen

wow - just wow - Devin Baines

shortest gillmor gang ever - Karoli

lol that was classic - Chris Saad

Wow, social media drama! - imabonehead

Wow, I never saw Leo get mad before. That's a first. - Dave

/me applauds Leo for standing up to Arrington's crap - Omar Egan

Leo blew his top! - John Hillestad

It's about time someone put Arrington in his place. He is always so cocky! - Jason Hansen

man i only just caught the end - what happened? - h1ro

I missed it too - Simon Wicks

about time - Jim Posner

OMG - Steven (optionshiftk)

arrington accused leo of being biased b/c he got a review Palm Pre - Karoli

Props Leo - Nick Rae

Arington said Leo was biased because he has a review unit, Leo is the ULTIMATE ethical tech journalist. FUCK YOU ARRINGTON - David Lloyd

Leo got a review Pre & Arrington was giving Leo crap about it. - Jason Hansen

Leo for President - Matthew

what a shitty move from arrington - leo would never do that sort of a thing he is always so upfront - h1ro

wow. missed arringtons part but saw leos reaction twit live is running reruns. - Kiran Patchigolla

Kinda felt that one coming for a long, long time. - Mike Lewis

Arrington should not disrespect Leo on his own network - Steven (optionshiftk)

The problem with arringtons argument is that every single review unit in history must mean ervery reviewer was biased - David Lloyd

wow - Tina Chase Gillmor

Way to go Leo!! - Andre Vautour

wow from condolences to troll in under 10 minutes. arrington needs to take his meds.You rock Leo - Andrew Johnson

Arrington's an asshole - Devin Baines

What jealousy can cause. +1 Leo - David Schmidt

@Michael that was indeed quite an over-reaction - Chris Saad

relax people... let's leave the name calling out of here - decjr

Mike just proved his bottom feeder business model by attacking one of the most trusted people in tech - Matthew

Sorry about that guys, but I've have enough of Arrington's trolling. - Leo Laporte

michael arrington Leo always discloses that info - Andrew Johnson

got funky hold music on calliflower - Kevin Marks

Mike, I agree, that should be disclosed, but the tone indicated bias and it was disrespectful! - Mike Lewis

You have nothing to apologize for Leo - Matthew

Leo is not for sale, fuck you king of the trolls, you always think you are right - David Lloyd

You did the right thing Leo! - Omar Egan

as much as Leo maybe right... he really should be more professional.... - John Hillestad

@leo i don't think anyone that knows your work would *ever* think of you not being a stand up guy on disclosure - h1ro

No need to apologize Leo. - Bill Heslin

Totally out of line Arrington-if you did your research you would have seen that Leo gave a fair review of the pre-he didn't say it was 100% perfect - Harvey Birdman

nothing like factions to spice up a 10-minute Gillmor Gang episode. ROFL - Karoli

No need to apologize Leo How you feel and how you react id your right no worries - Erle Stride

Seemed a little uncalled for, I think Arrington was justified in asking to get the facts out there, but then again, I don't know their relationship to each other, maybe Arrington was being rude, maybe there's a code you guys like to follow. - Colin

did i miss something? - Kevin Marks

I agree. Leo has a history of owning Palm products and he was happy to see the Pre possilby bringing Palm to life again. Never once was it a biased comment. It was him being honest. My friend has a Pre... I have an iPhone.... people that don't have an iPhone or don't want an iPhone, the Pre will be a great choice. Arrington is a jerk. - Jason Hansen

yes Kevin - Matthew

the audio should go viral soon - Jim Posner

Kevin, yeah. A small nuclear implosion. - Karoli

Why are you confused Arrington? Are you serious? - Jason Hansen

Professional? It's his network!! He doesn't have to put up with Arrington's crap. In any event I think Arrington needs to be more profesional and stop all that thoughtless crap he says all the time. - Omar Egan

well, that was interesting. - Chris Pugh

Hehe - this the Real Time Web in action, that's fo sho - Devin Baines

you exist only to cause conflict mike, thats your purpose in life - David Lloyd

Mark, that's kind of harsh. Just sayin'. - Karoli

You rock Leo - don't take that crap. Arrington is a troll and just trying to bait you. Stick to your guns on this one. - Mike

Just like to say I love what all of you guys do, laying your opinions out there and getting into heated discussion, I wouldn't like it any other way. - Colin

@Michael u do lots of dick things to amuse yourself - but this wasn't one of them heh - total over-reaction - Chris Saad

thats the point ...its HIS network... storming off mad is not professional..... as much as Leo was right to be mad , he should have just cut him off.... - John Hillestad

michael arrington doesn't seem to be able to not be in provocative mode when talking about products and services - leo called him out when he said "what are you gonna do about it?" so leo did something about it... kinda sux cuz i was liking the gillmor gang, but i respect leo laporte for standing up for himself in this instance even if it was a big misunderstanding - Chris Heath

apologies if i overeacted xxx - David Lloyd

Jeez, I leave for 20 minutes and miss it? you have got to be kidding me. This live stream approach is pissing me off. - Aron Michalski

It's his network, running Arrington's show... Leo did the right thing. - Omar Egan

Leo would have disclosed it was a review model. There was no need to accuse him of being bias just because it was a review model. Leo might have over reacted a little but Arrington was questioning his honesty and Leo maybe over enthusiastic but he his not dishonest. - Kim Landwehr

I'll be uploading the audio here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

as we are all effectively coming into leo's front room, anyone should be polite to our host - h1ro

yeah, why would Mike say "What are you going to do about it"? is he really that caveman-ish? - Matthew

kim they were talking about how it was a review model... - Chris Heath

Any chance we can hire someone from the Zapruder family to document this stuff? - Aron Michalski

Chris is right... Why would you ask, "What are you gonna do about it?" That was very childish. - Jason Hansen

@jason who said that? - h1ro

I have been so frustrated with many of the people on the Gilmor Gang, but someone needs to be talking about this stuff... [edited/retracted part of this comment] ... I don't think Leo should to take over, I just think something needs to happen to get the show refocused on the content and not the personalities. - Joel Asaro

Guys, Leo is human as is everyone. I'm not familiar with the previous relationship that he had with Michael, but he's probably having a bad day and got annoyed to be mistreated by Michael just like he did. I also dislike when people have prejudices against others. Furthermore, Leo was planning to buy his Pre a long long time ago. The fact that he got a review unit in does not make him biased. - Paulius G

Its kind of funny I turned on Twit Tv and all I got of the show was that last minute. - zephyrlily

If the Mike Arrington supporters ever bothered to watch Leo's shows, they would have seen he has stated it was a review model and even stated he will probably stay with his iPhone. So get a clue - Harvey Birdman

Joel, I love Leo, but he should absolutely NOT take over Steve Gillmor's show. - Karoli

cliff - please call me if you can - Tina Chase Gillmor

the thing i was most excited about leo hosting the gillmor gang is that there might be some decent production values! - h1ro

I agree with Kim Landwehr. I have never been able to find a moment in which Leo has been dishonest .. keep workin' it Leo! - John Blanton

tina - which #? d msg me. - Cliff Gerrish

Waiting for the TC post :) - Chris Saad

im sure mike will make a post out of this yes :) he will have a provocative title and claim he did nothing wrong - David Lloyd

Joel, that's TWiT (on sundays) - Chris Heath

Arrington - Leo said it was a review unit. To start spinning it that he may be "influenced" on a guy who's spent his entire career being an ethical journalist was unnecessary... especially when your hosting your show on his network. I know its in your nature but bro, that's not what the show is about - get a pause button. Stop burning bridges. - Thusenth

I'll miss Mike Arrington =( - Colin

just wild to hear Leo Laporte say "Fuck you"...he must've been brewing for awhile. - Karoli

Karoli - i was shocked too! - Chris Heath

yes, it was brewing for months - David Lloyd

Went downstairs just as everyone was signing on - came back up and it's over - :p - LPH™ and his dog P™

I think that's the first time I've seen angry leo - Chris Pugh

Mike Arrington, has a way to trip peoples trigger, he seems to get a kick out of it. Like it makes him a big man. - Kim Landwehr

Well, come on.... Arrington has been an ass for how long? - Jason Hansen

What's next a 5 minute NGL @ 3am PDT? - Aron Michalski

Wondering if somebody minds if we put the recording of this, shortest ever Gilmor Gang onto YouTube? - Mike Hellers

I won't miss him.. The show is always better when Arrington's not on the show anyways. - Omar Egan

years no doubt :p - David Lloyd

I agree with Leo 100% here. I would have said this in the IRC chat, but would have been booted. - Jason Hansen

I feel bad for Steve and Mrs gillmor tho - David Lloyd

Go Leo! :-) - Moobie

Is Tina Gillmor still in here? - Jason Hansen

Aron, a 5-minute NGL at any time of day would be more than what it is now. LOL - Karoli

Leo spends a lot of his own money on products to be sure that he doesn't "owe" manufacturers anything. Even his advertisements are only for products he uses and likes himself. He only requested this unit because he records today, the day the Pre goes on sale, so he couldn't go out and buy one. If Leo is biased about a product or a company it's because he genuinely likes it. It's something Leo takes very seriously, and he had every right to be upset at someone impugning his honor, rightly or wrongly. - invariant - farewell FF

hello - Tina Chase Gillmor

Kind of like telling a friend his kids are ugly while crashing at their house for the weekend...don't be surprised if you are shown the door. - Jim Posner

very true, invariant - Eric Florenzano

good point invariant - Chris Heath

hey Tina - sorry this happened - Hilary Talbot

Tina, I have a good feeling this will work itself out :) I think that boiling point just needed to happen and cooler heads will prevail :) - Mike Lewis

Did the show start at the top of the hour? - zephyrlily

Incredible: Someone already updated Arrington's wikipedia page with a short description of the incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Steven (optionshiftk)

The Mike: Arrington will never change. - Jason Hansen

Iunno invariant, I still think the question wasn't that crazy, and I was interested in the answer until I realized it really upset Leo. - Colin

I would be upset at having my integrity challenged too. - Karoli

love you tina, you are a top chick xxx - David Lloyd

I JUST POSTED TO YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Mike Bracco

Jason, agree, which is why you won't hear Leo and Mike together on GG anymore. - Mike Lewis

Tina.... MWAH. I'm coming your way next week... - Karoli

thanks @Mike Bracco - detorn

I think Leo is officially in the Gillmor Gang! - Wo

RETWEET: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - David Lloyd

Karoli - let's get together when you do - Tina Chase Gillmor

Colin - I'm not necessarily saying Mike was wrong to ask, I'm just saying that I could understand Leo's reaction. - invariant - farewell FF

In my best cartman voice "I'm taking my network and going home." - Paul E. Ester

I'm very shocked... for the record - Tina Chase Gillmor

crazy that this happened just signed up on ff to participate in the show - Will Fifer

What happened? - J. Gilbert - Joe Gilbert

I'm sad my GG was cut short. It's my favorite show of the week. - Wo

Hmm, I just re-watched the Youtube video, Arrington saying, "What are you going to do about it?" was childish heh, Leo called his bluff. - Colin

yeah the "what are you going to do about it" from arrington probably not a great move - h1ro

Just watched the video again - Seriously, Mike did nothing wrong heh - Chris Saad

re what happened Arington said Leo was biased because he has a review unit, Leo is the ULTIMATE ethical tech journalist - David Lloyd

If I was not there to see it live I would guess it was staged. - Steven (optionshiftk)

He never said he was biased - listen carefully - he just said let's get the disclosures out of the way and mentioned that Leo was one of the few to get a demo unit - that's it - Chris Saad

it was not staged, the anger was real - David Lloyd

Leo always seemed to be above the GG shenanigans but it's nice he's now down to the GG level. I respect that. - Wo

I thought Leo was being facetious - Steven (optionshiftk)

If things didn't get broken once in a while I might not think you guys were actually fighting, so keep it up! lol ;) - Colin

I think the "what are you going to do about it" was the kicker - Chris Pugh

So I take it there isn't going to be a Gillmor Gang this week? - Dave

I really hope it's not the end of TGG on TWiT. - Wo

GG is not dead, it will be back - David Lloyd

just not on twit - David Lloyd

realtime web ladies and gentlemen, friendfeeded, twittered and youtubed within ten minutes of the incident. - russtbarnacle

@chris i think the "what are you going to do about it" wasn't exactly a calming move - more a troll move - h1ro

well Paul, Mike did ask Leo what he would do about it. He did something. He cut his ass off - russellcoleman

Chris, remember Mike was not watching the video, so he though Leo was being facetious - Steven (optionshiftk)

Damn, I slept through the Gillmor Gang, sorry Steve (I flew back from Virginia this morning and was dead tired. - Robert Scoble

yes russelcoleman haha - David Lloyd

got it on facebook too @russtbarnacle - detorn

Leo took his ball and is going home. - Wo

arrington has been a complete assclown on the show before - Moose

you missed a classic Scoble - David Lloyd

lol - detorn

it takes alot to upset Leo, i mean REALLY pset Leo - David Lloyd

Now this is really getting Web 2.0, even the Robert Scoble is here! - Paulius G

@Robert you can re-watch the whole 5 second show here http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Chris Saad

@scoble http://www.youtube.com/watch... action replay - h1ro

This had been brewing for a while.... It was only a matter of time.... Leo defended himself and was correct in doing so, It`s his network and his credibility which was questioned. - David Peralta

russtbarnacle - do you see any irony in the claim of the real-time web youtubed, friendfeeded, twittered and archived? LOL - Karoli

Maybe Scoble could have calmed Leo down. - Steven (optionshiftk)

RT http://www.youtube.com/watch... - David Lloyd

GG will still be on Twit as long as Mike isn't on it - zephyrlily

Dan is censoring the irc chat room... - John Hillestad

I was looking forward to the Pre discussion. - Wo

Before Thursday, Leo had said that he intended to buy a Palm Pre as soon as it came out, but that he'd like to get one a bit early, if possible. His radio show is on Saturday and he wanted to have one to review during that show. I don't think he gets review units very often; this one was something of an unexpected surprise. I think he only got it on Thursday. - Troy McConaghy

Robert Scoble - call Steve in 10 minutes or when you're alert - Tina Chase Gillmor

hundreds of peopel are watching this thread btw in real time - David Lloyd

I suppose it's just me, but seriously, half the time this show is "real time real time" and Scoble screaming FreidnFeed, power to Leo - Chris

NO MORE GILMORE GANG NOT ENOUGH RESPECT TO THE MAN PROVIDING THE SERVICE - Daryl Brown

think Leo was beyond calming down, it was weeks of little snide commentsb y arrington that exploded - David Lloyd

was great a few weeks ago when Loren made Arrington cry and go home - Moose

Leo really is doing a tremendous favor donating his time to broadcast the GG. After a 3 hour radio show, who could help but be cranky. - Steven (optionshiftk)

the incident : http://www.youtube.com/watch... - John Hillestad

Gillmor Gang continues. It has been around for years before twit - Tina Chase Gillmor

HAHA, awesome, Leo put the Pre unboxing video on! - invariant - farewell FF

Tina, wasn't it supposed to record on Friday at 3? - Karoli

Mike will apologize and that will be that. Leo felt insulted and it seemed to be a misunderstanding. Arrington respects Laporte and Laporte respects Arrington. - Wo

I just watched the video. GG will survive, but without Arrington. - Gilbert - Joe Gilbert

Thanks to whomever posed the incident; some things never change. - Aron Michalski

Sounds reasonable Mark, and I remember that Moose. To be honest, it's Leo's network and he can do as he wishes, and if you throw torches in his house, he's bound to crack eventually. Glad to see this up again, I missed it. - Chris

not angry at you or Steve, you are first class professionals tina xx - David Lloyd

"Arrington respects Laporte and Laporte respects Arrington." I have no idea about arrington but leo has called him a troll several times - jccalhoun

they shut the IRC down. FF is just as good - Mike

Why is Dan muting the IRC chat? Just because he doesn't like to see people talking about what just happened? - tollie williams

Just hope Arrington does not publish a defamatory post about Leo. - Steven (optionshiftk)

Yes...Karoli... but we had a family problem yesterday - Tina Chase Gillmor

Dan is a tool - David Lloyd

Tina, sorry to hear that. :( I nearly missed the fun. - Karoli

its funny everyone in California is a liberal until they CENSOR their own irc chat room.... very ' bush ' thing to do Dan.... - John Hillestad

There's a dictator in the IRC chat? Not cool. - Colin

There was use in shutting down the chat. People will use FF to discuss the incident. - Steven (optionshiftk)

that irc chat has more drama and BS going on.. i swear it needs to get a Daytime Emmy - Moose

I'd love to see Arrington go after Leo - Leo has waaaaaay more ethical clout than Arrington and the respect of the whole community / industry - Mike

you can't censor something if you aren't the government - jccalhoun

FF just gained a lot of points. - Colin

I am behind you leo - Theodore Grabow

Leo can do whatever he wishes with the IRC chat, it is on his server. Let's respect his authority. - Steven (optionshiftk)

Leo's rant > Christian Bale's - Chris

twit irc has never been a free speech zone. go in there and say the f word and see how long you last - jccalhoun

if Leo told Dan to shut down the IRC that's one thing, but I think Dan just made an executive decision which is only going to fuel the fire - Mike

jccalhoun after today that may be changing. LOL - Karoli

yeah the irc server is a bit odd, i dont think leos audience is children, who need protecting from big naughty words - David Lloyd

Been there jccalhoun, that's why I try to spend more time here. - Colin

Whoa. Not sure what to think about all that, but "Whaddya gonna do about it" is a pretty bullying -- even thuggish -- thing to say... - Amyloo

Oh please, if there's any time to moderate a chat room, it's now. - Bwana ☠

there is/was an adult irc channel - Moose

And our point Bwana, is that there is never a time to moderate. - Colin

mark, actually there are a fair number of tweens in there. - jccalhoun

hey Amy - Hilary Talbot

Leo had a right to be angry but I wish he hadn't gotten so angry as to close the show, would have been better to see them fight it out as to the Pre, a few fuck yous and then go on with the show - Stephen Pickering

facebook real time chat is better to be honest, we can speak our minds without being banned by those power hungry mods - David Lloyd

Never a time to moderate eh? Well have fun - Bwana ☠

hey hil, did you catch that? - Amyloo

My 2 cents, I'm behind Leo 100%, there is no need to give assholes like that airtime. - Robert Hafer

yes, it was all over in minutes... - Hilary Talbot

Yes.. Gillmor Gang is off ... Arrington out line .... for third time .... - Michael Holzinger

yes cos preteens have never heard curse words, their lives will be destroyed! - David Lloyd

Chris - don't be silly. Leo's rant was nothing. Is everyone so bored today that they have to get off on this nonsense? - LPH™ and his dog P™

I think Dan did not like people posting the youtube links to the F bomb so he censored the room like he would Gitmo - John Hillestad

I think leo felt slighted from steve when he wasn't introduced in the beginning. During the arrington exchange Steve is laughing away. - Paul E. Ester

Besides, Bwana, it just sends the conversation here... until this thread gets deleted (if it does). - tollie williams

i'm guessing the people talking about "power hungry mods" are people who pissed off the mods... - jccalhoun

Dan runs a tight ship - russellcoleman

When someone is typing the letter "a" 600 times a minute and actually ruining the service, sure, use the system to fix that, but other than that, this current mute is silly. - Colin

Yeah, because IRC is a right, not a privilege - Bwana ☠

I would assume Leo will delete this conversation - Steven (optionshiftk)

oh, I love it when people are called 'power hungry mods'. It usually means they've done something right. - Karoli

Tina: I will call Steve. Wow, sounds like I missed a something. - Robert Scoble

the biggest thing to happen in the TWITverse in like...forever...and Dan shuts down the chat? weak! - zefyr

If this thread gets deleted by anyone it'll re-start somewhere else... You just can't stop it. - Holger Eilhard

Arrington abuses Scoble all the time, but Scoble just laughs - Stephen Pickering

I wonder if killing the show was what Arrington had in mind as a response when he asked "Whaddya gonna do about it?" - Thusenth

Robert - you certainly did - Devin Baines

OK Robert... yeah, you missed somethiing - Tina Chase Gillmor

Can they just do the show today without Leo. They have a great panel and I want my GG this week. - Wo

Of course not Bwana, but if you want to facilitate open discussion, keep your channel open. - Colin

cut & paste this thread to prove it ' existed ' - John Hillestad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Aron Michalski

LOL @ Scobles understatement - Moose

"What are you going to do about it?" *initiating shutdown sequence* - zephyrlily

google indexes this stuff fast anyway - Karoli

Steve says GG will resume as soon as we can make new arrangements - Tina Chase Gillmor

resume as in today.. somewhere else? - Moose

good old steve, another one of the good guys - David Lloyd

today Tina? - Wo

thanks for the update @tina - h1ro

any one with firefox could have downloaded it already for "posterity"... - Aron Michalski

Will Steve try and stream it over ustream? - Steven (optionshiftk)

not today maybe tomorrow or Monday after WWDC - Tina Chase Gillmor

Here's a similar incident that happened in the past: http://www.techcult.com/wired-v... - invariant - farewell FF

@Bwana Moderation certainly helps in many cases, but it's also nice to have an unmoderated place to chat for those that want it. - 321

TWiT is much more than just the Gillmor Gang though. - Jason Hansen

Aron, Theatre of the Absurd is an excellent description. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Karoli

I'm not sure why it pushed my buttons so hard - closing down the show was overreacting for sure and I apologize for the disrespect it showed the other panelists. Arrington is a piece of work. I can think of one time when he stimulated the conversation in a very positive manner (his question about how to respond to an invitation to talk from a guy he was slamming) but most of the time he... more... - Leo Laporte

Well Tina, if we can help by being an audience, just let us know when and if it's happening... - Aron Michalski

This is absolutely asinine. Leo Laporte has done nothing but good for his audience and viewers in the past. Leo deserves better than to work with some boldfaced idiot like Arrington. Leo was NOT in the wrong by any means necessary. I couldn't care less if I ever heard from Arrington again. - David Ford

And Mike really wonders why people "do things" to him...? - Holger Eilhard

good statement Leo - David Lloyd

I would have to say that Arrington was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was a BIG straw, but Leo has been under a lot of stress as of late. Hang in there Leo! - Patrick Hall

Why isn't the Gilmore Gang part of the whole TWiT feed in iTunes? - Michael Kaiser

Well done Leo, he really is a troll and I applaud you for not putting up with his shit. - Simon Tracey

WTG Leo - Moose

he is a troll, the king of the trolls, but he is just so damn powerful and influential :( - David Lloyd

Leo: Let Gillmor Gang do their own thing. - Jason Hansen

Jason is coming to the TWiT network btw, as a sindicate - David Lloyd

It's all fun and games until you get kicked off TWiT - Bwana ☠

Does Gillmor Gang get posted somewhere after the fact? http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/ hasn't been updated since April. - Thusenth

@Leo Thanks to you sir for standing up for us. I for one have NEVER liked Arrington. I don't think the GG should continue on TWiT. - David Ford

You called his bluff Leo, I say continue without Arrington, if that's possible. - Colin

Wow. Leo's response to what happened was very honorable. That shows the difference between Leo and Arrington. Arrington would never have the decency to respond in such a reasonable way on FF. That's why we love Leo. - Steven (optionshiftk)

Oh No, ARRINGTONS POST is up oN TC - David Lloyd

doesnt mention leo tho - David Lloyd

lmao Bwana - Moose

@leo i don't think anything that happened today has even slightly damaged my opinion of you or the Twit network. it seemed like arrington was deliberately trying to push your buttons for whatever reason. i think you made the move that was right for you at the time. keep up the great work and go have a nice cup of peppermint tea - h1ro

What an interesting political dilemma. Leo won't do anything with Arrington, Steve edits TechcrunchIT - Karoli

I would never kick you off Bwana! - Leo Laporte

Leo: The only people you didn't disrespect was Steve Gillmor, he laughed through the whole thing, & Arrington. - Jason Hansen

GG Never felt like the right vibe for TWiT. Don't blame you for how you feel Leo. No worries. Please come back on and we can do something fun. - Libertine

Yeah Karoli. Therein lies the difficulty. - Leo Laporte

Looks like Leo does have some weight behind him - Earthquake just felt in the Bay Area. - Mike

Wow, I missed a lot. Leo, keep Gillmor Gang off of TWiT. You did the right thing, and I thank you for it. - TeraDyne Azurepaw

Leo :) - Bwana ☠

I think they're saving up so that catching up on back episodes will fill your hard drive... - Aron Michalski

Stick to your guns Leo. Integrity is everything. - Chuck

Leo, in response to your question of whether to cancel the GG, I personally like it on TWIT Live. - Steven (optionshiftk)

"Dan if all the chat is going to be for the next half hour is people obsessing about it - i think it's best not to have open chat." WTF? lol - Erle Stride

Wow, never seen Leo like that. Gotta defend yourself if someone thinks your being bought out. - Adam Windisch

Let's go back to broadcasting GG the old way... I want to throw Mike off the show. - Jerry Schuman

wow can't believe I missed it give em hell Leo. Please don't cancel the gilmore gang though, I love to hate those guys - BryanSchuetz

MP3 of the whole show: http://www.archive.org/downloa... - Jack

The thing about Leo, he wouldnt even advertise a product he doesnt love! he has to ADORE A PRODUCT to endorse it - David Lloyd

I think Dan is out of line cutting off IRC, if Leo didn't want conversation about this he would have deleted this thread. - Mike Saraf

Well, my vote is that the Gillmor Gang continue without restriction. If restrictions mean not working with you, Leo, then I guess that's my vote. - Karoli

I could do without GG on Twit Live personally, never felt like a good fit compared to the rest of your shows. Would personally rather see your time/energy on more interesting things (the new Google Show, for example). - Patrick Sullivan

@mark link for arringtons post on tc? - h1ro

Erie - I don't blame Dan...I would have just moderated the channel for voiced users though. But he runs it, and there's always other places to chat. - Bwana ☠

Leo, I enjoy the Gillmor Gang on TWiT Live but don't think you should stand for being bated and trolled. - Chris Pugh

I love GG with Loren .. Arrington is a distraction at best - Moose

Just get rid of Mike, everyone else seems to play nice, he's the common denominator in every incident. - Colin

@Mark That post has nothing to do with what happend on Gillmor Gang though. - 321

Bwana Who's Erie? - Erle Stride

I didn't "cut off irc".. i decided to mute it for a few minutes to qwell the constant gossip. It will be back in a few minutes. - Dan Hendricks

it was a mistake h1ro, it said it came from arringtons twitter, but its not about leo but about engineers they poached - David Lloyd

Steve laughed because surely he thought this was a joke - Tina Chase Gillmor

With htat said, I'm no fan of Mike Arrington's. I am a GG fan and a Leo fan. - Karoli

Leo , look at it this way you had your ball meme the other week and now you've got this video that could meme,your on a roll your the meme machine! - russtbarnacle

Erle - Erie is you when I'm reading without my glasses - Bwana ☠

i think many of us thought it was a joke for the first few seconds - David Lloyd

:) - Bwana ☠

Leo is going on techmeme? - David Lloyd

I imagine Gilmore and Arrington may be a package deal - zefyr

Bwana I know just breaking balls - Erle Stride

I agree that Dan should unmute IRC. @Bwana, he didn't filter it for trolls. He personally didn't like the TWiT community discussing the current event. IMHO - not the best use of censorship. - tollie williams

I deserved it :) - Bwana ☠

Would be a bit politically touchy for Steve to toss Mike off GG to stay on Twit network...just sayin'. - Karoli

irc has a gossip filter? - Moose

Isn't this all Marc Canters fault? He usually brings the sunshine to the gang. - Paul E. Ester

So did anyone happen to record video of the show? I missed it - BryanSchuetz

IRC is back for anyone interested - Mike

Dan - do your thing. I have an inkling of an idea of what you're going through. - Bwana ☠

Maybe they can alternate Mike and Leo each week? - Dave

So lets see Huge issue happens in Twit And the way Dan feels to deal with it is to NOT allow Leos' Army to discuss it? WOW - Erle Stride

FF > IRC - David Lloyd

Dan, good thing tomorrow is a slow tech news day, huh? :P - Mike Lewis

until they add custom formatting here? Lo - David Lloyd

Wow I've only seen two episodes of GG so far. Gotta say last weeks show was better. Hang in there Leo. - John Brazel

you got that one right Professor. - John Blanton from twhirl

RT http://www.youtube.com/watch... - David Lloyd

Some people are calling this set up...i don't believe it, but i guess its possible. - Zee.

Full show here, it was good at the beginning: http://www.archive.org/downloa... - Jack

RT Jason Calicanus "This is what happens when I resign from the Gillmor Gang... everyone loses it! :-)" - David Lloyd

Doing set ups is not Leo's style, which is the reason I absolutely don't believe the theories of this being intentional. - Paulius G

Yeah, for a moment I thought it was staged, like all this Bruno Eminem thing, but I guess it's NOT. - Nir Ben Yona

If this was a setup then Bruno's balls in Eminems face was real - Chris Pugh

well Leo can act, but that would be an oscar performance - David Lloyd

Zee: it's not setup. Boy, this has kicked off a whole debate in the scoble household with Maryam and Halley Suitt. I sure missed a humdinger to sleep through! - Robert Scoble

Just to be clear, I almost always buy the products I review, mostly because I don't like "owing" the PR folks and I hate the "when are you planning on covering it" phone calls, but also to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest. My policy when I accept a review unit is to return the unit and buy one at full retail if I want to keep using it. I don't even do "friends and family... more... - Leo Laporte

Well said Leo! - Harvey Birdman

I wonder if the show notes are on the twit wiki yet - David Lloyd

Leo has 30 year history of integrity - David Lloyd

@Leo Mike never accused you of otherwise - Chris Saad

Leo: I just received a Palm Pre unit that I have to return in seven days, too. - Robert Scoble

He was just getting the disclosures out of the way - Chris Saad

Leo, as someone who occasionally reviews products too, I totally get where you're coming from. Questioning your integrity was out of line and yes, trollish. - Karoli

Leo you are beyond reproach. - BryanSchuetz

right on - and that's why we all respect your opinion - h1ro

Chris, there was more than that to it - Karoli

We know, Leo, and we trust your reviews as a result - Devin Baines

Not so Chris - he very clearly was implying that there was some quid pro quo for the review unit. - Leo Laporte

Thank you Leo. Now, to those of you who said otherwise about Leo, I have the same thing to say to you as he said to Arrington. - David Ford

What Mike asked was fine, and how Leo responded was fine, what was not fine was the comment, "What are you going to do about it?" - Colin

No he really wasn't - listen to the youtube recording - he stopped you before you even reviewed the thing and just wanted to get the disclosure out of the way - Chris Saad

You don`t have to explain yourself Leo, your integrity is well recognized and we don`t pay attention to trolls. We are behind you 100%. I say the show takes a hike - David Peralta

re colin, flame baiting? - David Lloyd

Sorry guys, but all I can think of right now is : Man I love friendFeed - TunisianGuy

It was snarky, and the reiteration of the "free pre" thing was just the extra stab. - Karoli

We love you Leo! Hang in there! - Head Ov Metal

can you call tina please Leo xx - David Lloyd

@tunisianguy i just wish that friendfeed would autoscroll to the bottom of this page when there is new content - h1ro

Awesome statement Leo, I just reblogged it so people are clear - Bwana ☠

@Leo as I said above - Mike does lots of crazy things - this wasn't one of them - his point was "did u get a free one, wow most of us didn't" - Chris Saad

I'm really bummed out because I like both Leo and Mike and now I feel a bit caught in between. Sort of like having two divorcing parents, I guess. - Robert Scoble

Mark, am I flame-baiting do you mean, or Mike's comment? - Colin

Everyone is on your side Leo! you did the right thing, don't doubt that for a second! - Jack

Gilmor Gang should continue on TWiT, with Steve in charge of the guests he wants to bring on. Michael Arrington can cause friction but there has been plenty of outrageous comments on GG. Arrington is too much of a force in the digital universe to simply ignore. I very much admire Leo for what he is doing with TWiT and understand losing his temper. But, if Leo doesn't want to do the show, then have someone else "moderate" it. We need to hear all sides and opinions presented on shows like GG. - Michael Ritter

Leo got Pwned lol. - Matt Ruiz

friendfeed needs to either put a margin at the bottom of the page or else stop scrolling when i'm typing. it's distracting to type while messages push it down. grrrrr. - Karoli

RT Scoble---pick the better parent then---Leo - Harvey Birdman

Remember when RSS was dead? Those were the days. Ok, last week. - Professor Messer

Leo, we know better, despite what arrington says. I hope you don't think we'd believe him over you. - Lise

We love you Leo! - Moobie

that means two Christmas's Scoble = Win - BryanSchuetz

Harvey: I will stay with both. My friends don't force me to choose. - Robert Scoble

Professer Messer, LOL. Ah, for the good ole' days when RSS died. - Karoli

@Robert choose life :) - Chris Saad

Well said, Robert. - David Ford

Chris Saad that name rings a bell, doesnt he own apml.org? - David Lloyd

Canter was on GG via TWiT.. showing everyone his stash of weed....Steve forgave hime for that and he was back on a few weeks later - Moose

Chris: it's interesting how things like these cause conversations big time. - Robert Scoble

@Mark yes I do - Chris Saad

:25 in the youtube video trying to figure out what Arrington says... - Thomas McGivern

Robert, not so interesting. Conflict always draws observers and opinions. - Karoli

@Robert of course they do - this is one big highschool replay :) - Chris Saad

Leo was very clear it was a review unit. Had Arrington stopped there things might have continued fine. He continued saying "Free Pre"and then said "What are you going to do about it". It was classic bully antics .... - Jason Beck

Chris: life is one big highschool replay. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Hey ProfesorMesser loving the aplus course-you are a great podcaster.(will this get me an A) - earl wallace

Yet another reason for me to continue my personal Boycott of TC. Just as I was starting to read them again, :( - Jimminy

@Robert lol true I guess - Chris Saad

Agreed, this is life. - Colin

@Scoble -- lol, wish you'd been there.. might have diffused the situation! - Adnan

Free Pre which yo8u can keep for 7 days? Thats hardly a game changetr - David Lloyd

Leo, I have total respect for you, your approach and network. You had every right to respond as you did. We all know you are a gadget freak and have always appeared to operate with forthright integrity. My own run ins with Arrington for holding a non-Arrington opinion (read popular) probably don't even register with him. It left me feeling as if I had been played and with a very bad taste in my mouth. Success is measured in different ways. - Aron Michalski

In other news, I'm still not getting a Pre, but it's a cool piece of hardware! - Mike Lewis

Jason: Arrington is a bully sometimes, but that's what makes him interesting. Not everyone likes that approach, though. - Robert Scoble

Its not late to bring some peace back - Johni Fisher

You don't bully leo though scoble - Jack

...and the pug barks, life goes on. GG will find a new home, which we may or may not find because it will be real-time only, and we will have to rely on reading our tea leaves or gluing ourselves to Twitter and/or Friendfeed to find it. Ah, the power of the gesture. - Karoli

I feel that Mike is losing 'street Cred" in the tech world..... - Stanley Suan

Just finished watching Apocalypse Now for the first time - crazy film - almost as weird as the @leolaporte @arrington freakout :) - Chris Saad

Adnan: I doubt I could have diffused this one. I would have been forced to be on Leo's side because I have a review unit now from Palm too. - Robert Scoble

You have a "free pre" then in Mikes eyes - David Lloyd

It's on the reddits now - http://bit.ly/u0Ilr - James

"what are you going to do about it?" is never anything but a dick move in my book - jccalhoun

Karoli lol - russtbarnacle

Arrington maybe interesting to the people watching the conversation, infuriating those who are part of the conversation.. - Kim Landwehr

was the google show suposed to be sat and gg on fri? - Steve Ford

Tina I pinged you yesterday about getting together with Karoli. - Francine Hardaway from BuddyFeed

No reason Leo need suffer fools gladly on the network he created. Rock on Mr. Laporte! - John Brazel

Actually Canter is infuriating - Mike is fun :) - Chris Saad

Steve: yes, but the Gillmors had a family issue they had to take care of yesterday. - Robert Scoble

Francine - sorry didn't get it .. Yesterday was a mess for me/us - Tina Chase Gillmor

whats arringtons take on all this? - Dano Hart

he hasnt commented publically, he is with his dog - David Lloyd

Don't you Think the GG meltdown was really about Rajeev's death and raw feelings? - Francine Hardaway from BuddyFeed

I like cheese. - Benjamin Grelle

Who really cares what arrington's take is on anything? - Harvey Birdman

@ right, but it seemed to me that there was lots of stuff going on backstage getting it together and onto youtube and so on, and this will likely disrupt that effort. As well as the political concerns you mentioned before. - Hilary Talbot

I like John Cheese - David Lloyd

Ok! Is there any other show please. I'm all set up. Bulleit Bourbon and everything! Damn you Palm - TunisianGuy

that was @karoli, sorry - Hilary Talbot

Yes, they needed you there Robert. I think you could have diffused it, like you did when Jason and Cantor were getting into it, but I have to admit I've never seen Leo get that angry - Stephen Pickering

Dano - I don't think arrington understands what happened, he said earlier he went for a walk - Moobie

@Harvey lol err... everyone cares - that's why he runs one of the biggest Tech news & events companies in the valley - Chris Saad

Stephen: I agree, I've never seen Leo lose it like that. Arrington makes me feel like that once in a while too. - Robert Scoble

There's just something about the Gillmor Gang that seems to engender flame-ups. It's not the direction I want to take TWiT, frankly. - Leo Laporte

Hard to have a decent conversation when someone is poking you with a shark stick, don't care who it is... - Aron Michalski

I agree with Harvey, no one cares - David Peralta

@Chris-that's funny, I've only heard about him because of Leo. - Harvey Birdman

Leo I've watched you from all the way back since ZDTV. Even helped out in the chats as a ZDTV chat host. Still watch you today. I have deeply respected you from those days and after what I've seen today I still hold very high respect for you. It's not cool to see anyone question anyone about their integrity over any product or anything for that matter. Just sounds more like this Mike... more... - Grady Joslin

has gillmore commented - Steve Ford

I think most of us would agree leo - Jack

@Grady Joslin - Well said, and seconded, sir. - David Ford

I agree with you Leo - Theodore Grabow

Updated the bootleg feed: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Agreed Leo - Moobie

@Frank TGG won't be airing today.. based on earlier responses on the thread. - Divya Mistry

Well, at least I didn't have to miss the Belmont Stakes! - Stephen Pickering

Leo I'm with you. You don't need a show like GG on your network - russellcoleman

Waffles are also delicious. - Benjamin Grelle

Halley says "your sleeping was brilliant strategically." Ahh, my nap wasn't planned. Heheh - Robert Scoble

i'm glad to know friendfeed can handle all this.hehe - Dano Hart

arrington posts on techcrunch http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - jccalhoun

RT ARRINGTON http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - David Lloyd

Dano: there's a reason why I have been so excited about friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

Decent post by Arrington with some gracious comments - David Lloyd

He respects Leo I think - David Lloyd

Looks like we need president Obama to mediate between the sides and straighten the difficulties, otherwise the gang will be out of its sting. - Nir Ben Yona

@robertscoble yeah I like this better than twitter, but everyones on twitter. That TC post is what I wanted to read was mikes side, just cause I'm curious - Dano Hart

anyway to get the latest post at the top? - detorn

obama is too busy going on ' date night ' - John Hillestad

Good post from Mike. - invariant - farewell FF

Good post form Mike. with an apology - David Lloyd

Mike apologizes to Leo - David Peralta

if Leo was 99% of any other tech journos, he wouldnt have gotten that apology - David Lloyd

Respect exists. - David Lloyd

Do a twitter search on leo laporte and you see thousands of people agreeing with leo. sometimes people just need to be told what they are doing is wrong and leo did exactly that. thumbs up leo - Austin Garrod

yes ive been monitoring a number of comment places and its 95% support Leo across platforms - David Lloyd

Arrington apologizes, the nukes are put away. - Karoli

if most people weren't supporting Leo I don't see arrington apologizing. doesn't arrington have some place besides the front page of techcrunch to apologize? Some place that won't get him more publicity and make him out to look like a big man for apologizing? - jccalhoun

well I am sure this might make techmeme, what do you think? - David Lloyd

Good post by Mike Arrington on Tech Crunch, He obviously spoke before he thought and now is sorry. - Kim Landwehr

In some strange way, I think Palm is the winner here - Bwana ☠

the Arrington apology doesn't sound like an apology... he's saying he is sorry leo was offended by the question, not that he asked it... - detorn

finally got to the end of this thing.... friendfeed conversations are getting way way too long.. guess that's kinda the worry leo has had about 'spam' on ff - Christopher Harris

whats that tech site which has the gutter news? - David Lloyd

I now have a headache - Bwana ☠

he did apologize : http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - John Hillestad

James: for arrington, thats a gracious apology, as close as will ever be - David Lloyd

To quote Arrington's "apology" - "Comment moderation is going to be tight on this post, so keep it constructive." Unlike here where we can actually speak out minds and exercise our opinions without moderation. Arrington has lost a lot of credibility here I think. - Simon Tracey

Weakest. Apology. Ever. - Eric Florenzano

The full show! http://www.archive.org/downloa... - Chris

Well that was a very nice apology. I might have to reconsider. - Leo Laporte

Leo-don't, he's not worth it. - Harvey Birdman

"And I don’t consider asking a journalist to disclose if a device he says he loves was given to him for free or not as being a particularly trollish thing to do." Arrington see not an apology, an explanation. Not taking sides either way, but call this what it is - detorn

Not one of the finest moments on TWiT but very understandable. Leo's built a great career out of his knowledge and integrity and Arrington seems to be the type to push anyone's buttons he can.... That's what has made them both successful in their own right. Cooler heads will always prevail, and I think this is won't be an exception - Kyle

@bwana I agree on both statements. It is good for palm and I do have a headache from catching up on all this.hehe - Dano Hart

Leo be the better man and accept his apology and keep the show running... - John Hillestad

Whoa. I was just gonna question if Leo was going to reconsider. I think respects you, Leo. Mike is who he is, but I think he realized he screwed up. - Lise

I kind of figure from Mike Arrington, this is about as big of apology as he is going to give. - Kim Landwehr

Make peace not war Leo. - Willem (@wim66) ☠

Leo, my friend, for Arrington, that was as close to getting down and kissing your feet he will ever do to anyone. He respects you. - David Lloyd

Leo, even though I am a fan of the Gillmor Gang, I completely understand if you decide it would be best if they find another host. - Dave

Peace may be the best solution here; although I do agree the GG stands out as having a different tone than other TWiT shows, not one I'm particularly fond of. Maybe a peaceful parting is the best solution? - Jason Beck

You are all friends ....we cant change the past go for a better future - Johni Fisher

Nice, I post a reasonable comment on TechCrunch, and it gets rejected. Now who's biased? ;) - David Ford

Let the show go, Leo. Bitter, yammering tech-challenged guests aren't part of TWIT's future. - Robert Kenney

The best trolls always say just kidding at the last second. Kudos to Arrington for being an epic troll with that techcrunch "nonpology" - Dan Hendricks

Yeah, what an apology. Arrington is just butt-hurt that Palm knows he's not a journalist and his "publication" is something to be avoided. - Adam Turetzky

Don't piss off the geeks they love Leo. DOS maybe? - Randy Green

Leo - I would sleep on it over a fine wine and a Palm Pre - Bwana ☠

Wow! Just heard it. I don't know who Mike Arrington is, but Leo has kept me up to speed on all things tech for at least a decade now. I'm sticking with Leo. - Michael Kaiser

In the words of Admiral Ackbar, "It's a trap!" The apology was strategy not sincerity. - Benjamin Grelle

I say let Arrington go play in his own sandbox hardly a loss to the tech community if he never appears on another show with Leo. - John Brazel

It just isn't TWiT's style to be honest Leo, plus some of us are really missing Munchcast, even if that probably wouldn't land in place of it. Either way, I'm really tempted to get a Pre at some point, looks like a reallly nice phone. - Chris

It would be nice if this came to a peaceful conclusion, but it would be a mistake to continue GG on Twit, the show is too trollish and I suspect Gilmore encourages it. - Moobie

No. Arrington is STILL being a douche in his post, 'The fact that few people ever return them is rarely brought up.' (Heavily implicit thuggery.) Leo is above question. No forgiveness. - Libertine

Let it go Leo, they deserve themselves. - Richard Coppen

he should dump Gilmore and his gang. what a bunch of yo yos. - John Merrill

I just love in Mike's apology where he says "I didn't think..." Yeah Mike, apparently you didn't think. And look what you stepped into. It's shame people are still like that these days. Leo I just say part ways with him. Its not worth supporting such... crap. - Grady Joslin

just told my parents about what happend and the first thing my dad said was, good for leo, i know airengton, he deserves it - Austin Garrod

Leo, as I don't care for the language, I believe you did the right thing, you don't need that type of show, keep up the good work. - Robert Lee

Let Gilmore and his people go. Not what your network needs. - Steve

keep GG on TWiT if possible, it's been good - Christopher Harris

I like Leo on GG. A different vibe from the actual Twit show. I listen to most of the shows on the network, GG was/is really cool for what it was/is. - detorn

Disclosure: when I got back from Virginia this morning a Palm Pre was waiting for me. I didn't ask for it, I didn't know it was coming. It is only for seven days (I have to send it back). Now, that said, I think it's a valid question to wonder what Mike is wondering. It's something I always ask myself when I get goodies from the industry. Did I get these because I'm too nice? I used to... more... - Robert Scoble

What was the idea behind having GG on TWiT in the first place? Because of Leo's relationship w/ Gilmour? - Kyle

I left that comment over on TechCrunch. - Robert Scoble

You know, I've been a fan of TWIT and Gillmor Gang since the first time I heard both podcasts. I know Steve and Tina, and have a great deal of respect for what Steve does with the Gillmor Gang. It's pretty aggravating to read all these nasty barbs aimed at Steve. It's a different show. It's a great show. It's not TWIT. But why is it that everyone wants to draw a line between them? - Karoli

I like Leo being direct, admire men that are like that. Also Leo has always been honest.GG had always negative karma. Shut down show and do something better with valuable time. - Heiti Kruusmaa

Well! That was a nice 90 minutes of high drama. Kinda like a made-for-TV movie. Steve did say he thinks it's a video show - Amyloo

wait, has tech crunch never received a test unit? - Austin Garrod

Leo any idea when a real review is going to come, I've caught bits and pieces of your "ongoing" review since the unboxing. The fact that most recently I had heard you'll stick with your iphone, but respect the tech in the pre. - Steve Ford

I can see the Leo Versus Arrington mashups on youtube now? - Randy Green

Leo, although I find the GG to be informative and entertaining in it's own way, I never thought it could be done in a style or format in line with the production quality you regularly offer on the TWiT Network. - Craig Durling

Karoli: people want to choose sides in fights like this. I don't know why that's a human reaction, but it is. Leo has a lot of very loyal fans. I'm among them. We all ourselves Laporteans, even. I'm also a major fan of Mike Arrington, but Mike often gets people to have a quite different relationship with him. People often see him as rude or worse. That's because Mike often says stuff... more... - Robert Scoble

I thought this thread would be the one with the highest amount of comments on FriendFeed. But here's one with over 6,000: http://friendfeed.com/ideali... - David Schmidt

Robert: Well, having been the butt of Mike Arrington's need to say incendiary stuff, I understand that. However, Steve Gillmor is not Mike Arrington. GG is not Mike Arrington. There is much, much more to GG than Mike Arrington. would be nice to see them judged separately. - Karoli

in ealier conversations with david pogue leo proved his lack of any bias. - Tobias Lewsadder

I hope the gang ( excluding Arrington) from GG will be back on Twit individually at some point. They are all great guests each with strong personallities but much character. It can be hard for so many strong personallities to be in the same room or discussion sometimes but they have done a better job than I could do on the show, so props to them. I think arrington becomes a troll when in the mix, he can't hang with the big boys. JMHO&2C - Andrew Johnson

Leo, GG does nothing to help the TWiT family of shows. Looking across the shows, it should hold no place in your schedule. I'd rather hear something else. - Rob Blatt

Get Mike Arrington on TWiT tomorrow! That = ratings! - Chris

I want The Gillmor Gang on TWiT. It's not consistent in it's quality but often times can be the best show on the web. TWiT will give it the kind of audience it deserves. I hope Leo can work with the Gillmor Gang including Arrington and help them produce and distribute thought provoking content. - Wo

@david wow, wish I knew what that thread was all about - BryanSchuetz

Rob: I think Leo is trying to build a network with a variety of styles and topics. That's key to having a strong network. I know a radio station owner who has both liberal and conservative talk show hosts who hate each other. But by doing that he has a far bigger audience than if he just went all one way where everyone got along nicely. Plus the station looks far more professional and objective than if it were all run by Rush Limbaugh wannabes. Same for Leo's network. - Robert Scoble

I enjoyed GG on TWiT when I was able to see it. It is a group of people with strong opinions and that is not necessarily a bad thing. I didn' - kenneth glenn

The Gillmor Gang is my favorite show on the network, call me shallow and entertainment-hungry, but I really do like when people discuss things with this much passion, especially technology! - Colin

Leo: I think you should reconsider, not because you were wrong to get upset, but because it probably isn't worth cutting all ties. That is too absolute and despite his serious faults Arrington does have things to contribute. That said I totally agree there is just something about GG that causes flame ups and unless that can change you shouldn't have it be a part of TWIT. - Joel Asaro

Colin: we are passionate, aren't we? - Robert Scoble

@bryan: Haha, I thought Google would be assisting. Check this: http://tinyurl.com/qnugbz - David Schmidt

Robert: You are, and I wouldn't have it any other way. - Colin

Colin: people who are passionate often get misunderstood or cause opposite passions in people. I've run into that many times. How many people have asked me if I get paid by Friendfeed because I'm so passionate about it? - Robert Scoble

@david heh, figures who in here reads Cyrillic? - BryanSchuetz

it is the passion and the humor that draws me back. That, and the fact that you all force me to think. - Karoli

If The Gillmor Gang stays on TWIT I think Leo should step out of the "host" chair and be a guest with someone else controlling the board. - Chris Pugh

I've wondered if you get payed by FriendFeed myself hah, nah I'm kidding. - Colin

I feel bad for Steve Gillmor that his show was ruined today by a stupid remark and a temper tantrum. - Wo

Karoli: being on the Gillmor Gang causes me to think harder than anything else I do during the week. Trying to keep up with all the other people is mentally challenging to me. - Robert Scoble

Wo - and that's a first? :) - Bwana ☠

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Matt Ruiz

@Chris P - what would that solve? - Lise

so is GG toast? or needs to be reformatted? - Steve Ford

You guys are like professional athletes, putting yourselves on the line with the same opinions we have, so that we don't have to. - Colin

Steve Ford I'm sure everything will be worked out in the next few days - Andrew Johnson

Leo should bring in Merlin Mann to host the GG, now that would be fun to watch. - BryanSchuetz

Lise, Leo could walk off the show and not shut it down. There are other people on the show who made time to be available. - Chris Pugh

i need to say sorry to leo because in the chat room i was mad at him for cutting the show but it was his right to do after what mike said what happed i was on usterem and it got cut off so i didnt see the whole thing so i just saw a video of it so i apology to leo - Andrew Villafane

Steve: Gillmor Gang is not dead. - Robert Scoble

wish it was old days when men cleared misunderstandings with pistols and swords:) then men also choose their words and showed more respect :)... - Heiti Kruusmaa

I figure they will straighten it out between them once they both cool down. - Kim Landwehr

If the show continues, and especially if Mike is still on it, you guys are doing something with the Gillmor Gang that I don't think I've seen in any type of media anywhere else. - Colin

We need that kind of Tech Jerry's TV - TunisianGuy

Gillmor Gang is not dead. Hopefully Newsgang isn't dead either, just waiting for a place in time to be resurrected. But then again, North Korea hasn't apologized to South Korea for the threats...so who knows? - Karoli

Colin: the show will continue. - Robert Scoble

leo laporte has always appeared to me to be a gentleman and to let someone bring you down to their level isnt flattering. the "what are you going to do about it?!?!"comment unfortunately showed the maturity of the conversation. - Tobias Lewsadder

I like GG on the TWIT network and Leo's presence on the show. I just hope that in whatever future there is there is a time shifted alternative to missing it every week. - Aron Michalski

Robert: I too posted on Mike's article. I struggle with his way of drawing out a story because it always appears to be disrespectful to the person he is trying to pry the story out of, typical of mainstream journalism IMHO. The story is more important than the people involved. I think Mike could have been more tactful in light of the great job he did on Rajeev. I know if we wait long enough with those who piss us off eventually show us their good side. - Owen Greaves

hey robert so with the new studio you are makeing you could broadcast it - Andrew Villafane

Interesting that Arrington's swipe at Leo was the same thing that he swiped at me and a zillion others for...as if we couldn't possibly offer unbiased reviews of products/sites/services. - Karoli

I posted the following on Mike's Ouch post: Thanks for the post, Mike. Apology accepted. Now that I know what was going on in your mind, I apologize to you. There seems to be something about the Gillmor Gang that just engenders over the top passion. I’m embarrassed by my overreaction. Peace. - Leo Laporte

Nice, move along people ;) - David Lloyd

Robert/Colin: I hope the shows doesn't just continue, but improves... There has to be a way to have these really interesting and important conversations without all the ego and defending semantic arguments instead of trying to understand one another. - Joel Asaro

Andrew: I don't have the studio built and I don't have the ability to host that here, my bandwidth isn't reliable enough. - Robert Scoble

Nice to see that it all worked out so well. - 321

anyone got an rss link to the Gilmor Gang? the page on techcrunch seems dead... - Jay Martinez

Wow, things move fast on the www. Nice on you both to offer apologies that fast :) - Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal

Leo: nice, hope the show can go on! I think it would be nice to have not so many quick arguments, either, but that's the Gillmor Gang! - Robert Scoble

Joel, pearls don't exist without sand irritating the oyster. Just sayin' - Karoli

arrington is good at what he does and gets results, that cant be disputed. i watched his interview with kevin rose and kevin rose looked so uncomfortable the whole time - Tobias Lewsadder

Lasse: welcome to the real time web! - Robert Scoble

Aw Leo, you're too good a man. He's an a-hole. Don't be embarrassed. - Libertine

Glad both parties apologized. Stupid comment and over reaction. Gillmor Gang next week? - Wo

GG on TWiT is the best match to bring forward thinkers and tech enthusiasts together, it will be great if Leo reconsiders. If not, I will follow Steve and the Gang wherever they decide to continue with this realtime experiment. - Alberto Saavedra

real time web wins again - David Lloyd

leo proves to be a true gentleman!!!!! - Tobias Lewsadder

Arguments is not the problem. Questioning ethics is. Rule #1 Dont fight a land war in aisa. Rule #2 Dont piss of the host when it is dealing with ethics - Darryl Adams

I know this incident will color the future epsiodes of the "The Gillmore Gang" podcast, and the perception of the people who hear about the incident and wonder what, why, who about the podcast. - Stanley Suan

so leo will there be a show next week or you dont want to do it anymore??? - Andrew Villafane

Leo: how about with Steve, have you talked with him? - Robert Scoble

The real time web isn't always puppy dogs and ice creame cones - Chris Pugh

the real time real world isnt either Chris :p - David Lloyd

It's nice to know that you guys are human, and you get much more respect from me knowing that you are. - Colin

Stanley: On the real-time ADHD web, no one will remember what happened yesterday, much less a week ago. - Karoli

Leo, everyone is entitled to get angry when core beliefs and standards are insulted. Just hit the mute button on twitlive next time! Bombs away!!! :) - Wookie

However weird it may sound, it was good to see Leo being able to get upset like that. Just proves he can be human too. Was wondering if he's entire mind worked in a G rating ;) Also proves how passionate he is about his work. And good on being such a gentleman afterwards! Good going Leo! - Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal

That's Gracious of you Leo. Time will heal. I think both of you work so hard the stress just mounts. I do wish the show could keep its edginess but not get personal. Debate the issues. You did have a right to be angry, I'm not questioning that. I just wish the show in general got some kind of professional adjustment, if that's the right word, have the structure of Twit where there is debate but it doesn't get personal - Stephen Pickering

Oh dear. Still, in all these years it's about the 1st time. Almost superhuman not to have exploded before. - David Jones

I had never been on Friend Feed before (only heard so much about it on TWiT); however, when all this went down, it was the first place I thought to turn. I finally "get" the hype. - Jason Beck

@jay http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - 321

Jay: Link to Gillmor Gang - http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com - Karoli

Leo works too hard. He's there too much. I wonder who would be an ideal fill in, if he could take more time off? - Stephen Pickering

Leo accepts! http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Chris

Wow, I think that posting the incomplete episode complete with Leo's rant/breakdown/whatever it's called is just totally disrespectful to him. Leo's a person who's never had these kinds of breakdowns in the past and I don't think it deserves to be publicized in the GG feed. - Paulius G

Paulius: Leo regrets blowing up as loud as he did, but he has no problem with that video clip - David Lloyd

I'm staying out of this one - let me say though, I wouldn't be following TechCrunch if it weren't for Leo - Leo has serious authority here. - Jesse Stay

Leo didn't break down. He got pissed off. And rightly so. He said what he wanted to say, and he's resolved the matter. Don't see the problem. - Karoli

Arrington has and always will be an asshole. I don't read his blog and certainly won't start now. He has made some bad moves in the past, but this one might be an endgame. There is absolutely no reason to bait like that when someone is trying to provide a review. Reviews are never completely unbiased, but Leo always discloses and provides the most unbiased reviews that a sensible human can. - Bob Blunk

Paulius: I think Leo more than anyone is aware of the consequences of being live all the time. - Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal

Heck, I wouldn't be on Twitter if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't have a Mac if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't have built my own PC if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't be using Digg if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't have an iPhone if it weren't for Leo. I'm dead serious in that - Leo has had serious influence in the things I've tried over the last 5 years or so. - Jesse Stay

Leo, I wouldn't worry about it. Arrington Deserved it! As long as I've listened to your shows, I know that you won't push a product unless you think it's ACTUALLY good, and that if a product sucks, you'll either not talk about it, or trash it if it deserves it. Arrington was just being a dick, and While I wouldnt have shut the whole show down, there's a good chance I would have kicked him off myself. - Justin Flood @justinflood

As far a the show goes, if/when they have another one, I MIGHT EVEN WATCH IT NOW. This is some good advertisement over this all be it not expected. Might be good to put someone on there with more of a moderation roll though. - Fake Elmo

Do you think Leo will ask Mike for a preview of the Crunchpad??? - Darren Rowley

Just read Michael Arrington's explanation and frankly, I'd like to hear about the "story that is brewing about favoritism at Palm" and TechCruch's analysis of reviews. It's obviously an important and sensitive issue if it engenders situations like we have just witnessed. Leo, bring Michael back and let everyone talk about disclosure issues, favoritism, and gadget reviews from everyone's perspective and experience. Your audience will benefit from a rational discussion of this important issue. - Michael Ritter

I just watched your video with Mike Arrington. You just made a new fan. :D Hope you enjoy your pre. - Jason Pope

I can see why Leo blew up. Arrington is trashy and seemed to question the integrity of someone who actually cares. Not sure why Leo was on Gilmore Gang in the first place. Not the place for real interest/ideas. - Darrel Davis

When you have all these strong willed experts on one show, in a timed enviroment it could cause for some "good tv" as the saying goes. - Fake Elmo

love ya leo. - Mark Outten

just one more thing...PLEASE don't let this be a publicity stunt! - Bob Blunk

It's nice to get a realtime issue in some sense, to work loose the shaky brickwork. the web is a wild and wonderful place. Although real emotions are involved, the live nature of the content does make certain people respond differently. - Steve Ford

I've trird to watch the Gilmor Gang, but can't get through it. It doesn't fit the TWiT lineup. Leo, let it go, you have better programs that you can do instead. - Brian Cagle

http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Jason Pope

Leo would never waste fbomb for publicity - Art

I like Steve, but I agree with Brian - it's a different audience, not TWiT's - Jesse Stay

Admittedly I don't listen to Leo live very often but after many years of following Leo around the web it was actually very amusing to see and hear the foul language I'm not used to hearing outta Leo. Way to go Leo, I appreciate you sticking up for yourself! :) - Ryan

This just in: I just talked to Dave Winer and he made the most important point: what about the show? I called Steve Gillmor and he's going to try to reassemble the troops (including Mike) and we're going to try this again. I'm on my way into the studio now. - Leo Laporte

YAY! - David Lloyd

Leo needs content. While Twit Live is based on the brand of "Leo", he does allow over voices like PC Perspective and This Week in Fun to use his facilities. He has full editorial control on what he has on his network, and that is his right. I only stated to listen to GG after it came to Twit. So maybe Steve expanded his listener base, but maybe he does not need too. That question is up to Steve - Darryl Adams

Restarting BitGravity feed :) - Bill Heslin

:) - Nicholas James

Leo you're a good man - Jesse Stay

Wow, thats great Leo. Looking forward to it :) - Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal

Lol, god he loves his community doesnt he? - David Lloyd

_serious_ realtime shit - Amyloo

Leo suffers for his audience, now it is out turn :-) - Darryl Adams

gotta love live real time. - Steve Ford

Yes! :) - Adnan

<3 real time xx wish my friends got it - David Lloyd

Can the bandwidth support this episode? Ha! - Michael Kaiser

Then I'll stay up for a while (it's 2:14 am here) - Willem (@wim66) ☠

Incredibly admiral thing to do, a lot can be learned from this whole series of events. - Jason Beck

I've watched Leo "alter" his views going from the pc shows to the mac shows, but I have never felt Leo was or ever would give a positive/negative review to something based upon getting a freebee. - Brian Cagle

Can we get Dave Winer on the show too?! :) - Adnan

Ride the trike in Leo. It will give you some peaceful time.. :) Your the best - Bill Heslin

we want david winer - David Lloyd

Lol, someone posted Keyboard Cat playing off Arrington but it got deleted on Youtube - zephyrlily

why would youtube delete a keyboard cat vid? - Bwana ☠

Cool :-) I did remember last week you were a little peed about the trolling nature of Mike and I agreed then and more now Good on ya - O W

I think the author deleted it @Bwana - zephyrlily

Wait, who's on their way into the studio right now? - Colin

scoble you going to be ontine for round two? - Steve Ford

Dialogue is good to work through an incident such as this. I'm glad that Leo and Mike responded so soon afterward. Apologies came quick and bitterness didn't have time to set in, which could have caused enmity between them for years to come. I've learned to be careful with strong initial reactions because I may not be totally understanding where the other person is coming from, and that is the source of so many of these kinds of problems. - Allen Blair

a rerun of futures in Biotech Colin - Bill Heslin

The best thing about this video is about 50 seconds in when Loren Feldman realizes Leo Isn't joking around as he bows his head and goes into his happy place while mommy and daddy fight: http://img.skitch.com/2009060... - BryanSchuetz

Oh nevermind... - Bill Heslin

Lol :/ - Colin

hehehe - Bill Heslin

Colin: I think they're trying to get everyone back. - Nicholas James

If you guys put this back together, you guys rock, seriously. - Colin

Steve: I gotta drive up to the city, so will be calling in from my new Prius. - Robert Scoble

This video has "Keyboard Cat" written all over it! - Chris

Serenity Now. Serenity Now.... :-) - Jeff Weber

LOL Jeff - Bill Heslin

chris can't we get like a keyboard penguin or something.. you know something fresh... - Steve Ford

I'm so thankful that R. Scoble invented "real time web"! I'm joshin' :) Unless he actually did. - Michael Kaiser

Michael: Robert invented the 2010 web: http://scobleizer.com/2009... - Nicholas James

You mean R. Scoble didn't? I'm so confused now... - Bill Heslin

I thought Al Gore invented it? - John Brazel

There goes the Bulleit Bourbon? - TunisianGuy

I'm sure Leo finished the Bulleit on the way home TunisianGuy :) - Bill Heslin

@BryanSchuetz ROTFLOL - Adam Turetzky

don't know about him, but I am done, that's for sure. These apologies took too long to come imho - TunisianGuy

Welcome back Leo - Bill Heslin

I was missing the show until I saw the article on Techmeme, yay! - Ryan Massie

The show must go on http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Amyloo

I think your plant is upset Leo :) - Bill Heslin

Back live woooo! - Moobie

live.twit.tv - TunisianGuy

yayyyyy - TunisianGuy

Someone with mad skills please mashup the GG video with keyboard cat to the tune of "Saturday Nights All Right for Fighting" by Elton John. Ohhh were back live, cool. - John Brazel

Part2 - Willem (@wim66) ☠

Very civilized! Way to get it together guys! Job done! :-) - Moobie

LOL. This is better than TV - Bwana ☠

we need a minute please - Tina Chase Gillmor

@Bill Lol @ the plant - zephyrlily

I guarantee half the TWiT fans have their recorders going now :) - Bwana ☠

Bwana - Lol! :-) - Moobie

Half Bwana...I would think at least 99.9% :) - Bill Heslin

I upped the first part here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... and will do the same with this part - Jack

Was this the "new media" equivalent of O'Reilly's great "F$&k it, let's do it live" outburst? (not to compare Leo to Bill as Leo Rules) - Tim Hughes

I blame the Pre Leo... - Bwana ☠

Personally Leo...I enjoy the show. Hope it continues it is very intelligent 99% of the time. There is a lot to be said about the show...and all that goes on on it. - Kevin Hart

keyboard cat is uploading again...i deleted it because the quality was too poor - Thomas McGivern

I love it, it makes me remember the good ol' days of IRC. - Ryan Massie

Love ya Leo. Takes a big man to own up to a mistake (understandable as it may be) - Scott Edwards

Take 2 - Bill Heslin

Now the show will be tame :) - Bwana ☠

I can just picture keyboard cat waiting for the cue - zephyrlily

lol - Chris

LOL stop zephyr...I'll be laughing the whole show - Bwana ☠

GTALK - Nicholas James

You are a class act Leo! - invariant - farewell FF

Arrington's "apology" was merely a bunch of excuses ("I wasn't watching the video, blah, blah") I don't come to TWIT for confrontational tatics like Arrington's. Dialogue and discussion -- yes. Being a jerk -- no. - Joel R

LEO: I was the one who quickly posted the YouTube video (MPB326) and I felt kind of bad about it in a way. I have been following you since your Tech TV days and love what you are about. I think you were totally in the right in this situation although overall I think it was a misunderstanding. Message me if you want the link to add an annotation to the video. - Mike Bracco

Yes, mike's audio is fine. - Cliff Gerrish

leo, you are great. - Oldengrey (Jay)

Well done both Leo and Mike - Kim Landwehr

Perhaps there is hope for the Middle East. - Karoli

seems to have lost audio - anyone else? - Franz Sittampalam from IM

hiccup - Tina Chase Gillmor

Leo, I think you overreacted a tad but I reckon I would've too, Arrington was way to quick and aggressive in his questioning. At least you guys made up. - Marco Ho

Tina, recording part ii - Cliff Gerrish

What Calacanis incident? - Chris

Well done Mike - I have high respect for Arrington after this. - Jesse Stay

I like Arrington's style. - Colin

thanksCliff - Tina Chase Gillmor

it's not the questions Mike asks, it's the snark-laden tone. - Karoli

Questioning a man's integrity without any justifiable reason is an insult and Leo is absolutely correct for what he did. - Paul

Tina, the first part is here if you need it http://www.archive.org/downloa... - Jack

karoli, re: snark, which is what made the contrast with the nice in memoriam so jolting - Amyloo

He never apologizes.... explains his attitude. - zephyrlily

keyboard cat is back up!! http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Thomas McGivern

Gotta love Feldman! RT: The best thing about this video is about 50 seconds in when Loren Feldman realizes Leo Isn't joking around as he bows his head and goes into his happy place while mommy and daddy fight: http://img.skitch.com/2009060... - BryanSchuetz - 1x29

This is one of the most amazing interviews I've ever heard. I am learning so much, and gaining a ton of respect for Arrington after this. - Jesse Stay

No doubt about it, these guys are heavyweights. - Colin

The same props go to Leo for being such a great interviewer. - Jesse Stay

Steve is angry :( - David Lloyd

can't blame Steve for being angry. A lot of crap was posted on this stream that was unfair to him and to Tina. - Karoli

Thanks Karoli ... tough few days - Tina Chase Gillmor

Scobey! Welcome to the show! - Colin

Yay, we have ourselves a show - Robert

Jack, are you recording? - Robert

I wish Mike would open up more - he really is a good guy inside, and has great intentions. - Jesse Stay

moving right along... - Brad Kligerman

yep, this part will be up at http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... later - Jack

So what's happening in tech? - Colin

This week in therapy - Thomas McGivern

group hug - Franz Sittampalam from IM

Leo vs Steve is coming up next... - Chris

Thanks Jack, all those missing these live shows thank you - Robert

Good thing Scoble isn't on a Pre with Sprint. Cause we could end the debate on Pre, or Sprint right now cause his signal is cutting out...Can ya hear me now? LOL - Bill Heslin

As a journalist you have to ask tough questions - Jesse Stay

This is even better then a 2-2 tie in the 12th... oh yeah, the Dodgers won that one. - Brad Kligerman

Robert=Fuzzy goofball...lol - Bill Heslin

I'm glad I stayed up (it's 2am here) reading the FF comments and TC comments - I nearly went to bed thinking the show would be taking another hiatus - Jack

Steve has a good wife. - Colin

I seriously cannot believe this has happened. Kudos to you, Leo and definitely Mike for not throwing the F You's back and apologizing so quickly. I am happy that these two have a respect for each other and tech to and us, to come back, publicly apologize and try to continue to do the show. I'm almost teary eyed! - Lise

Leo's in his "battle stance" - Colin

Is this a kumbaya moment or another shit storm? - Brad Kligerman

Leo doesnt need Gilmore's Gang! - Chris

Chris, networks have interdependencies - Karoli

We shall see. - 321

Wow, I just dropped in on some serious stress! - Aaron T. Harvey

Robert remember this is Our community. Leo Gives us a voice and we use it. - Andrew Johnson

I'm not saying everything that is said is correct or needs to be said though - Andrew Johnson

Andrew, so you're saying that because I am a GG fan from way, way back, I'm not entitled to speak, or be heard? - Karoli

For GG to work on Twit network, Steve has to retake center stage on the video feed... the production has to visually and audiably recenter around Steve. - Brad Kligerman

of course i'm not saying that Karoli - Andrew Johnson

I wonder if this video will go viral like Santelli's? - Stephen Pickering

Excellent point Brad - Robert

My point, Andrew, is that Steve has a community, too - Karoli

I do agree with Brad. - Karoli

I'm just saying that the show came to our commmunity so we get a voice too - Andrew Johnson

Yeah, I think out of respect for Steve, Leo should have maybe left, but not pulled the plug - Stephen Pickering

I'm listening to the restart of the show with all the kiss and make up. Bottom line GG doesn't belong on TWiT and should go somewhere else. - Steve

Steve needs to stop reading this chat - Robert

I agree, I think he's taking it too literally - zephyrlily

i think it is irc that he is speaking of - Andrew Johnson

Wow, this makes for an interesting Saturday online. - Verbal

Steve Gilmor please dont take yourself so seriously - earl wallace

Oh that's not true, Mike. I don't want a fight. The drama was interesting and so is this public apology but I want a show about tech, not flame wars. I can go read youtube comments for that. - Lise

Lots of respect for the content, but seems like its about the people instead of the ideas way too often. - Joel Asaro

Pretty hard not to read the chat....Steve has always been tuned into viewers' responses. - Karoli

FTR I like every single person on this call. I find this show incredibly interesting because they're all truly opening up. I want this to continue if every episode can be like this. - Jesse Stay

We don't have a problem with you Steve, thanks for putting this show together. - Colin

Leo, the drama is the show. - Karoli

i'm confused... leo added drama too - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

This is not going to end well...... - David Peralta

If I wanted Meet the Press, I'd turn on David Gregory - Karoli

Ryan, I can't believe you're even suggesting that this has anything to do with ad revenue - Derek Erdmann

This is the most riveting show on any network I've seen in a while, it's genuine. - Matthew

Uh Oh - Bill Heslin

Uh oh, the Middle East won't reconcile - Karoli

Gillmore Gang has value but Steve cant handle the spotlight...welcome to radio, tv, etc if you put yourself out there you need to expect this to some extent - Gary Gannon

I don't get Leo's rap on the 'drama'. Ageed Karoli - Brad Kligerman

Ohhhh.... - Amyloo

Woah - where did Dave Winer come into this? - Jesse Stay

internal angst - zephyrlily

I remember drama on the GG 2 years ago, its not all from the "chat" or even just Dave Winer... - Robert

the content is what it is because of the conflict. It is. - Karoli

Gilmore Gang has always been about conflicting personalities in tech... Leo, you should have known that when you let Steve do his show on TWiT - Ryan Merket

Everything is political. People are passionate. It is what creates pearls - Karoli

Steve's feelings are hurt. I think because what Leo did, by closing the show, really made Steve feel like he wasn't in control. Okay, I get that. I hope they can resolve this now with Steve. - Lise

'do without the drama' Steve Gillmor. Leo has got to understand that statement. - Brad Kligerman

Steve is a gateway drug, like marijuana. - Colin

I think nobody's better than Leo. But geez, once again it seems his ego's in the way. - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

We need Steve to hook all these people up! - Colin

talking about each other is part of the attraction. It is one way to figure out how people think - Karoli

Steve us wrong about networks. This is clearly Leo's network. - Scott Wilder

We don't want to see you dead, Mike - Stephen Pickering

It's like watching Crossfire, but with a bunch of tech geeks - zephyrlily

There's drama because this show gets bogged down in personality fights. - Joel R

We're not crazy!! *twitches* - Robert

the content and the passion are indivisible - Hilary Talbot

I would never spit on you, Mike. And I'm proud of you for how you've handled all this. - Lise

SteveGillmor - Based on the comments in this thread, I suggest you come back to uStream - Karoli

I <3 you all guys - Jesse Stay

@Jesse The show is happening now because of a conversation that Leo had with Dave Winer according to Leo's post in this FF thread - 321

Sounds like they have patched things up. - Mike Doeff

Mike, it the whole anonymity thing... we don't want you dead. people just shout because they think you won't hear. - Jan Zimak

@321 I don't understand how that has caused drama though - Jesse Stay

Man they are really slamming us here on FriendFeed - Stephen Pickering

Underwear 12 y/os? wtf? - Ryan Merket

What if I'm in my undies AND rational still? heh - Lise

I haven't read anything here that was like life threatening - Stephen Pickering

OMG, you guys have a show where you are critical of your subjects, you get heated and personal sometimes yet blame us in chat for doing the same sometimes too? It is our fault? We are the bad guy? lololol - Andrew Johnson

I think Leo should "man up" and say the quality of the content isn't enough to keep GG on TWiT. - Scott Wilder

This is why social profiles are a good thing - building a presence that you have to be responsible for is just as critical for the web as it is in person. - Derek Erdmann

I haven't seen much stupidity on friendfeed actually; few insensitive comments perhaps in this stream but nothing much really - Franz Sittampalam from IM

This chat is infinately more mature and constructive than the IRC chat is - Robert

Is Robert on an AT&T network? Is that how bad it is? - Stephen Pickering

i think leo and mike have made up, but steve is the one with the attitude now - Dano Hart

Please no one tell the IRC chat about this chat - Jesse Stay

That IRC chat is a disaster - Mike Doeff

Being in the chat room is a bit like being at Comic Con, you always think YOU'RE the normal one, but everyone looks a bit crazy to outsiders. - Aaron T. Harvey

I think more of the 12 year olds are on the irc, Robert. heh They're not quite FFing yet. - Lise

Jesse, why does Arrington slam the FriendFeed chat so much? I've never read terrible things here - Stephen Pickering

No, @Dano, Steve is the one that still has something to work out. He's trying to save his show. - Brad Kligerman

Of course Scoble would say it is easy to block people here - Jack

Many of us here are on all chats simultaneously - earl wallace

Brad, Steve's show will go on whether it's here or some where else - Karoli

Ultimately Steve is right. If he doesn't like Leo's ability to control the show because he controls the network, then GG should go somewhere else. - Scott Wilder

Stephen, I'm not sure, but this particular chat has been pretty anti-Arrington before this current live stream. He may be referring to that. FF in general has been pretty anti-Arrington from what I've seen. - Jesse Stay

You guys have made that show, you're doing it right now. - Colin

you make it sound like it's all at Leo's command. It's STEVE'S show. - Karoli

can we PLEASE talk about the Palm Pre. I'm drunk already - TunisianGuy

Just missed the GG incident this afternoon, but got to see FF unfurl the story (and the youtube replay). I'm not going to weigh in on the personalities because I just discovered GG this week...I was going to start listening for energetic and insightful banter. Now, I have been thinking about what happened today and about the back-and-forth I've read here. From the few podcasts I've... more... - Jason Miller

gillmorgang is valuable to me... I waited the whole week for this. Their are other people on this thread who also find it valuable. I don't understand why there is a question as to whether it should be on the network or not. If people don't like it, they can skip it and watch the other shows that they do like. - Adnan

why do you want Gillmor Gang to be TWIT II? - Karoli

Seems to me that the back story is that Arrington was jealous that he did not get a Pre and wanted to spoil the fun. Pretty simple. Getting lectured from Arrington on disclosure ethics was the last straw for Leo. - Jim Posner

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I like this show because it's powerful personalities. - Colin

I think the debates and snarky comments are what makes the show great - Gary Gannon

Jim, I think it's a misunderstanding more than anything from what it sounds like - Jesse Stay

why is there a problem with drama? These guys are passionate - Tina Chase Gillmor

Robert I think is friends with everyone. I don't know if I've ever heard of anyone he hates. He's good that way. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, no, Mike really was attacking Leo's credibility, and I'm not anti Mike. I like Arrington - Stephen Pickering

Tina, I have no problem with drama. I'm not in love with SNARK - Karoli

If I want drama I'll turn on TNT, because apparently they know drama. - Scott Wilder

The drama is the reason I listen to GG, and not TWiT - Jack

Gillmor's talking but no one can hear. - Sprague D

On TWiT, the drama is replaced by the outstanding interactions between the members of the panel. Debating on the topic (like Dvorak v. everybody) is very different from getting personal, which I think is what happened here. - Derek Erdmann

Gilmore is always angry, aggressive and unpleasant, and he fosters that. Period. It's not the conversation, it's the tone. It's unfriendly and it's not Leo. If Gilmore wants that as his show, cool. But I'm with Leo in that I don't think it fits well with Twit. - Libertine

Ohh! Awwww. First time in a while to FF and I thought I could catch GG (kinda tough, just look at the sub-domain on TC; I thing they went "underground" for a reason). I appreciate both sides of the story. Everyone should calm down and join my new movement: What Would Spock Do? or WWSD? - coldbrew

Karoli - I think you hint at the problem SteveG is discovering. It's Steve's show on Leo's network... using Leo's live audience, and Leo's live chat... Steve's seeing *Leo's* network react, and not seeing *his* audience's feedback. As a result: he's offended. - tollie williams

Drama is fine, Leo just doesn't like it when people call him out on getting free/pre-released stuff, and saying "Love it! Totally impressed..." -- which he should have said "Palm sent me a 7 day loander to try it out, and I love it, totally impressed" - Ryan Merket

I think if we got Feldman on here he could solve this for us: http://img.skitch.com/2009060... - BryanSchuetz

All I can say is I have gained a completely new respect for Mike Arrington from this show. He manned up to this one, misunderstandings were cleared up, and I see him as an entirely new person after this. I give him my respect on this one. - Jesse Stay

I'm not a regular listener of GG, but the times that I've tuned in seemed like there was drama and people were a bit flaming. I like shows with less drama than GG. I'm not sure who has reason. I don't think that this is black and white. Having the show squeaky clean wouldn't be interesting, but the drama just gets annoying and simply delays the tech. - Paulius G

good point ryan merket - Dano Hart

Moral of the story: Don't call out Leo if he holds the "off" button - Ryan Merket

@tollie very good insight - earl wallace

Stay: Agreed. - coldbrew

Audiences long for access to this show. - Colin

This is all so very self-involved and silly. - Christopher A Carr

@Ryan that's not the case at all - Harvey Birdman

So, I missed the setup of this call. Is Scoble the moderator? Why is he on? :) - tollie williams

Leo having Steve turned down is EXACTLY what is wrong with the show in its current form - Jack

There's a difference between a spirited discussion and flaming. - Mike Doeff

+1 Colin - Brad Kligerman

You all need to *come back* and make up live. [EDIT: I mean "real time"] - coldbrew

Hug it out guys. - Mike Doeff

Jack, agreed. - Karoli

I agree with Gillmor , no need to change the show... go to Mevio where the ADULTS are - John Hillestad

"With all due respect". Got it. - Sprague D

The show would fit the network if it doesn't disclosing free/pre-released phones. - Ryan Merket

Ryan you've made that point a few times already now - Franz Sittampalam from IM

Steve and Leo I think have different audiences. It all comes down to if it's worth merging those audience. - Jesse Stay

I'm happy that Leo cares about us as a community. The normal, non drooling ones, of course. - Lise

Ryan missed a 1 hour Palm Pre unboxing where Leo stated about 20 times it was review Unit...but that's ok. - Bwana ☠

I think we might be seeing the end of the GG/Twit collab. Steve is realising its not working. Leo seems conflicted, he wants to keep the content on the show, but he is not comfortable with it. But Leo does an excellent job of hosting the show. I fear for the continuity and quality of the GG if its not on Leo's network - Robert

Without a community there's no one to consume your content. - Aaron T. Harvey

"I dont care about the community"-Steve Gillmor. My respect has risen for Mike Arrington and lowered for Steve Gillmor tonight.amazing - Dano Hart

Dano, how about the full quote? What he said was "I do what I think is important to do" - Karoli

Can you imagine a professional broadcaster on TV or radio talking about their audience this way? - Sprague D

It kinda hurts when the broadcaster publicly advises dosent care about his listeners - David Peralta

I think my favorite Gillmor Gang episode was the one where Marc Canter kept showing a big bowl full of marijuana buds on his video screen every chance he could get. That was classic! - Thomas Hawk

"those people who don't like reality"... ok. same to ya. :) - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

Steve please do this on a closed call - earl wallace

Steve is just hurt. And I think he's not feeling respected. - Lise

Leo just pointed out my entire current frustration... why the hell is the show not post-published if Steve indeed feels that people -should- be able to Fast forward through it - Robert

"I dont care about the community" implies "I mostly care about the content' - Brad Kligerman

@Dano agree, if Steve doesnt care about the community at all then why put it out? Just talk to your buddies on the phone. - Gary Gannon

Just produce a show where you argue about tech and not about each other. Outside of this incident, it's all very self-indulgent anyway. - bobrudge

Bwana: This is looking for justifications while already having one's side chosen - coldbrew

I can be passionate while avoiding drama. It's an acquired skill. Kinda like laughing without shooting milk through your nose. - Bwana ☠

Interesting to see if there is any brand impact to all of this..Seems they all have the Martha Stewart problem with the name and brand tightly coupled. - Jim Posner

This show is going no where now - Jesse Stay

It looks like the show will be moving to a different 'network'. - Verbal

This has been brewing for a while - Mike Doeff

i think the community can create content,and help and push content. So saying you don't care about the community,is not saying your care more about the content - Dano Hart

If Steve wants to move the show off Twit then he should, although he shouldn't make the decision RIGHT NOW he should make it after the show and after careful consideration. Although I don't see why it can't stay on Twit. - Nicholas James

Anella: Yes ;) - coldbrew

The problem is Leo can turn off the show - Jack

The show can go on with Leo - Bwana ☠

The thing you all should know about Steve's community comment? He does care about the community. Do you think people who don't care bother with discussions on FriendFeed? All he said was that ultimately HE does what HE feels is important - Karoli

dude bwana,shooting milk thru your nose IS a skill.hehe - Dano Hart

Rename it to The Leo Laporte Gang! Thats what it is! - Chris

Leo you can build up TWiT Sunday and then split it soon into Sat/Sun - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

The show can go on without Leo - Bwana ☠

Jack: Yes, broadcasting live via IP is so difficult these days. It would take millions! - coldbrew

Steve is just too hurt right now. I feel bad for him. But he needs to cool down - Lise

Bwana, yes, but can it go on with AND without Leo? - Jesse Stay

I am Reviled - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

Also wouldnt it be up to Mike if Gillmor Gang stays on Twit after all they're located over at: http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/ ;) - Nicholas James

Why does Steve do a show if he doesnt care if people watch it or not? - Chris

I think Steve is actually on the right track. Steve wants COMPLETE control. He can't on TWiT - Scott Wilder

Jesse - I see what you did there. Wait..No I don't - Bwana ☠

Chris, because he believes the content is important. - Karoli

Steve works for Mike, BTW. - Oldengrey (Jay)

Steve you know more than anyone else the internet mirrors real life. Please understand the chat in the same light. - earl wallace

No one is dependant on anyone else. Steve can organise the show on his own wherever he wants, like he did for a long time. - Robert

Steve should put it on his own network and ask Leo back as a guest. - Derek Erdmann

Gillmor could take this live on his own with minimal help. Lots of people *sitting* here could do it in an hour or less. - coldbrew

Bwana, I'm confused! - Jesse Stay

If Steve does want complete control then he does need to move it. You can't have complete control when Leo sits at the helm - Lise

We Collegiates are Reviled - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

Who would have thought an hour ago that Gillmor would be the one to come out of this the worst - seems to have taken an ego hit and wants everyone to remember it's 'his' show. Pretty pathetic performance. - bobrudge

Leo was liberal with those F bombs : ) - Mike Doeff

collegial is for talk shows, radical is for Gillmor - Brad Kligerman

Jesse: I think Bwana is referring to the fact that you said can it "work AND without Leo" at the same time...didn't you mean OR ;) - Nicholas James

LOL Mike. Seriously. I really like Arrington a lot more now. I can't believe he stepped up and handled this so awesomely. "F you. F you. F you. Bye" haha - Lise

Yeah - Leo's got it - Gillmor Gang needs to decide what it wants to be when it grows up. What's the overall purpose and premise behind the show? - Jesse Stay

You can't take it with you has never been more true. - Aron Michalski

Steve is coming off a little bit arrogant, though rightfully so in some ways. Honestly, I think that Leo should stay on GG, but take it off of TWiT. If Steve wants control, he should get it. - TeraDyne Azurepaw

oh now steves crackin the jokes.alright! - Dano Hart

@Steve ROFL. Looks like we hit a resolution. - Ryan Merket

Stay: It's that there is no premise and it's some people Gillmor knows and likes talkin shit. - coldbrew

stop trying to classify things, Leo, and go with the flow. It's been kinda working since Gillmor Gang has been here. - Brad Kligerman

Jesse, I agree w/ you (and Leo) that Mike has proven to be a different person that I previously thought he was. Silver lining here might be that these types of 'misunderstandings' are headed off before they boil over in the future. - Chris Heath

I think the balance of the show is fine. I think Steve just wants to be the main face on Gillmor Gang instead of on a monitor in the background ;) - Nicholas James

Someone just asked me this question: if this is gillmor, why is laporte seeming to host? (1st time on GG) - Karoli

coldbrew, I think with that, Leo's taking risk then. Steve's got to state what the show is for it to make sense on Leo's network. That's nothing against Steve's show - it's just in conflict with the organization of Leo's network. - Jesse Stay

I think we forget that these guys have real lives, real problems, and stress that can leak into this show. - Mike Doeff

932 PM GEORGIA hi is dave glad yall are back on - daveccorey

Karoli, because it's on Leo's network - Lise

It's kind of surreal to hear this thing play out while in my car. Thank you, iPhone app. Can the Pri do that? :-) - Joel R

LOL - Last words out of Mike's mouth, "and I got a Techmeme headline out of it" - Jesse Stay

Steve hinted at the beginning at people being rude saying 'the old guy' should get off etc; I think he has good reason to be not happy if that's the case - Franz Sittampalam from IM

Joel, WInMo can do that, with Skyfire. - Christopher A Carr

Can someone please turn this drama into a 30 second video for YouTube :0 - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

I definitely have a new respect for all of the people on this videocast after this. Well done all.. - Bill Heslin

Props for you guys going live with this. Way to stay professional and sort this stuff out. - Derek Erdmann

okay, real last words out of Mike's mouth, "Go Leo!" - Jesse Stay

It's completely recorded Leo :) - Bill Heslin

I love so much that they brought this back out live to do it. - Lise

Who in here has this recorded? - Jesse Stay

I'm kind of amazed at about how transparent these guys are being. I appreciate that. - Mike Doeff

Whoo! GO JACK! - Robert

No offense Steve, but welcome to the real-time web - Jesse Stay

Jesse: someone mentioned before that they recorded the first one and will be recording the second one. Update: http://friendfeed.com/jackx1 said he was going to ;) - Nicholas James

I'll put this up at http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Welcome to the interwebs Steve - Gary Gannon

Leo, remember that people can scrub back on the BitGravity feed and then screen-capture or record the audio. - Paulius G

Christopher: yeah, I heard about SkyFire on Windows Weekly. Sounds pretty cool. - Joel R

I knew it would be a tame show after that - Bwana ☠

LOL Leo. Awwww @ the loooove - Lise

I feel all warm and fuzzy inside now... :) - Bill Heslin

That was actually pretty interesting, maybe we'll see a This Week in Drama soon. - 321

I learned a lot from this. As I said before I have a newfound respect for both Leo and Mike Arrington. - Jesse Stay

I wanna hug all my gadgets. Yay tech! - Lise

i'm hungry.whos buyin? hehe - Dano Hart

This is TWID! - Joel R

is the bar open yet? - Andrew Johnson

TWiD - nice! - Aaron T. Harvey

After all of that i do have more respect for Mike now, I think alot has been learned today - David Peralta

Don't worry Leo we saw the names before you covered it ;) - Nicholas James

@leo it always good to hear an opinion that you don't hear agree with. you can't have good without evil. - Jan Zimak

Yes Andrew Serving Martinis as we speak...what can I get you? LOL - Bill Heslin

Everyone has a shadow, the trick is learning how to give the shadow recognition privately, so that it doesn't come out publicly like it did today - Stephen Pickering

And 3 hours later we get the Pre review - Jack

Judging by Leo's little presentations, the Pre interface seems pretty slow - Bwana ☠

sluggish yes Bwana... - Bill Heslin

that would drive me nuts - Bwana ☠

wait until Monday for any iPhone announcements - Derek Erdmann

Nice UI - a little 'roundy/pudgy' though. Is it comfortable to hold? - Aaron T. Harvey

Aaron, yeah looks kind of thick - Mike Doeff

Right, it's not as fluid as an iPhone. It's ages better than any Windows mobile or Palm OS phone, but still not too close to the iPhone. However, competition is great. And this hopefully means more interesting features in the future from the iPhone. - Paulius G

Bwana - Just got home and stumbled across this thread. What would we do without Friendfeed?! - Charlie Anzman

UI looks great - Franz Sittampalam from IM

Diabolical. Legal maelstrom becomes misdirection play, host catches fecal backlash. - Aron Michalski

I always had issues with Palm freezing and it seems it's still doing it watching this - Bill Heslin

Leo, how's the keyboard? Engadget and Gizmodo didn't seem too pleased with it - Derek Erdmann

Steve/Tina - Hang in there. I'll touch base soon, hopefully we can connect next week - Karoli

Charlie - we'd be all over Google looking for details :) - Bwana ☠

Aaron: I've had a 'roundy/pudgy' phone in the form of a Samsung D500 and it was fine. - Nicholas James

automatically syncs with google and facebook cool; look forward to seeing the keyboard too - Franz Sittampalam from IM

I like that app dock - Mike Doeff

I wonder how the battery life is with background apps running, since the drain on the battery is supposed to be one of the reasons that Apple won't allow background apps on the iPhone. - 321

321 - Despite what Apple may say, it's a memory issue moreso than battery - Bwana ☠

Is anyone going to post the make-up video? - Jim Posner

looks like it needs a software update for that latency (that would bug the hell out of me) - Franz Sittampalam from IM

321: Apple will be launching background apps soon ;) They blame battery's because their battery sucks. - Nicholas James

Jim: http://friendfeed.com/jackx1 is going to be posting the recording of it - Nicholas James

oh dear it's really not responding to Leo - Franz Sittampalam from IM

that phone does look pretty slick - Dano Hart

looks sluggish - Robert

Robert: It's running alot of background apps though - using a lot of memory - Nicholas James

anyone want some koolaid? - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

good point, maybe it'd be faster if he closed down bg apps - Franz Sittampalam

No it doesn't matter..I noticed it when he first unboxed it - Bwana ☠

It's sluggish all around - Bwana ☠

bye - Tina Chase Gillmor

Aaron: Update: Leo mentioned its comfortable to hold ;) - Nicholas James

I don't love the UI, but the multitasking features look good. I'd like to see how this would work on more powerful hardware - Derek Erdmann

Cya Tina! - Nicholas James

I love great notification systems, and Palm has one - Bwana ☠

Apple should hire the guy who hacked together Growl for iPhone :) - Bwana ☠

Google Wave is going to be an interesting paradigm for mobile devices - Scott Wilder

Definitely cool how notifications and things pop up on the screen - Cory Roush

Thanks! My stream is stuttering so I'm getting gaps - Aaron T. Harvey

induction charge....very cool - Franz Sittampalam from IM

Oh, neat, that's the first time I've seen the gecko stuff on a real product! - Derek Erdmann

flawless ustream for me today - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

That charger is ingenius - Jesse Stay

Nintendo kills me with that - Bwana ☠

High Demand = Immediate Press Coverage = Creates More Demand = Then Supply Inital Demand Only = Cycle Repeats ;) - Nicholas James

Jeff Cannata on TWiT?! - Chris

It doesn't make sense...that's why it infuriates me - Bwana ☠

Will it sync with Palm Desktop is the question I have - Bwana ☠

For the die hard Palm'ers - Bwana ☠

Did the Pre show up in iTunes? I heard it does... - Aaron T. Harvey

Nicholas James : Unfortunately I'll only be posting audio :-( - Jack

That'll come - Bwana ☠

People have to update their code to catch the Pre's browser string - Bwana ☠

do a quick test - Bwana ☠

Call goog-411 and surf while you do it :) - Bwana ☠

It's a good time to be a Phone lover - Bwana ☠

It is "good competition" to the iPhone - Jesse Stay

Pres, G1s, and iPhone giving Nokia and RIM some stiff stiff competition - Bwana ☠

Poor Motorola - Bwana ☠

Palm getting 2nd is good for version 1.0 - Nicholas James

monday it will be 3rd - Byron McCollum

O_O dead pixel blues - Bwana ☠

Storm 2 will be out in a few months...love the competition - Bwana ☠

Personally I think phones with sliding keyboards are great. - Nicholas James

his thumb covers 4 keys - Bwana ☠

Best keyboard I've ever had was the T-Mobile MDA - Jesse Stay

i could never use that analog keyboard - Byron McCollum

Leo - if you're missing a Brazilian BBQ (we, the enlightened, call it a churrasco), then your priorities are certainly out of order. Get off that ball and in front of a skewer of meat ASAP. Grad yourself a caiparinha, too. You've earned one or four today. - Jason Miller

I couldn't go back to a physical keyboard. - Aaron T. Harvey

That's your "We'll do it live" moment Leo :) - Bwana ☠

For me the apology will long out-live the video. - Colin

LOL Bwana - Lise

Nooooo - Bwana ☠

Dont do it Leo - Andrew Johnson

We could post your apology - Aaron T. Harvey

Mostly you gain publicity, not negativity. - Colin

I wouldn't :) :) - Bwana ☠

Personally; I think you should make a video with the rant and then the appology immediately afterwards - that way they'll outlive each other ;) - Nicholas James

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer >:D - Bwana ☠

do just the tribute and cut after that - Andrew Johnson

Don't put it back on Leo. Only those of us following from the beginning will get it. - Lise

Judge a man not by his friends, but by his enemies! - Colin

we love you, Leo! And now, even Mike. Good job, Mike. - Lise

We love ya Leo! Thanks for your support of us! - Aaron T. Harvey

we love you too leo! - Derek Erdmann

Go eat some meat Leo - Bwana ☠

You deserve a few choice cuts - Bwana ☠

See you in the morning, Leo. - Lise

Man, one can only dream to have a setup like Leo :) - Bwana ☠

Thanks guys! - Nicholas James

Oh no, so much for the chat rooms slowing down tonight. Maybe I need to make some new macros for tonight :-P - Andrew Johnson

now i want BBQ, thanks for another fun day everyone, tty tomorrow - Andrew Johnson

this type of reality that we saw today is why the future of media on the web is so exciting .. we like real opinions and real emotions ... not the puffed and polished punditry that the mass media (blech) tries to spoon us on a daily basis. Keep doing the show Leo, we can take it, and the content is quality. - Joe Magennis

Joe: It's up to Mike and Steve although, I agree that it should remain on Twit. - Nicholas James

Don't worry Leo!!! Good on you!!! - Andy

Haha, this is drama for geeks. - Manuel Mas

Wow Leo never seen that side of you Mic really asked for it though, One thing i can say about Leo Laportes reviews and recommendations is they are always what he really believes...... - John Spencer

I think Arrington should be a guest on Sunday's TWIT. - Jason

I'm listening to the later call where Leo says he feels like Arrington baits people and Arrington is not once denying that he does. Arrington also says he never apologizes which also says a lot about him. If you are wrong what is so hard about apologizing? - jccalhoun

I belive we saw true real-time reality TV in it's truest form today. - Allen Blair

Seems to me Friendfeed is the winner in this scenario - chad cicconi

listening to this later call I get the feeling that some of these guys have a difficult time clearly expressing themselves. They are also overly hypersensitive but aren't aware of just how abrasive they themselves are. Get thee to a therapist. - jccalhoun

Chad - Not sure I follow your logic but 1110 comments says a lot about the 'players' and an incredibly wide spectrum of opinions. - Charlie Anzman

Gillmor is now blaming the chatroom for the tone of the show? How is that? - jccalhoun

some people were being insensitive and they must have been paying attention because they got the feeling everyone concurred and thus the chatroom was a 'mob' of unified opinion; - Franz Sittampalam from IM

Gillmore wants to take his ball and go home... Steve give it up and do your show we love you Man. - Rock

Leo I hope that you keep this show. It is a bit different from other shows but the drama mostly is incidental to some really interesting discussions. I think a lot of it is direct styles of discussion between passionate personalities. - Dominic

Perfect. Way to go. - Byron Servies

I'm not a big fan of the drama! I don't care for the show. To much beckering! I don't believe it fits the TWIT network. - MarK

They don't seem to understand Leo's point that you can be aggressive without taking shots at people. - jccalhoun

Personally I felt the arguement for it not being on Twit is because Steve wants to be the main 'face' of Gillmor Gang regardless of being in FULL control of it or not. Although, I like the setup on Twit and think it is a great setup for Gillmor Gang which Steve will probably realise when he calms down - as he was pretty emotional on the show - although, remember it will be down to Mike (and Leo) at the end of the day and I don't think that they'll move it from Twit. Personally, I hope they don't. - Nicholas James

If Steve wants to take his ball & go home then FINE...Arrington was wrong & Steve is wrong not to acknowledge it...Techcrunch has been hit time & time again for it's "ethics"..Maybe that's why Palm didn't send them a review unit? Why send one to someone who has pre-judged your product? Arrington the Bill O'Reilly of tech? - David J. Garcia from twhirl

Just watched the re-run. Leo, Gillmor Gang is the best show on your network and Dominic nailed the reason why there is drama and today we got the confirmation that you're only human too. - Alberto Saavedra

Just dump the show. I'd rather watch reruns of your other shows that are all superior to what Steve has to offer anyway - Andy

i want to go to techcrunch to see if Arrington has brought it up, but then I'd be giving that bastard pageviews. - Dave Martin

dave: mike posted his side of the 'blow up' in a post titled "ouch" and he posted the youtube video too - it was kind of an apology, and leo accepted and apologized himself for his reaction - leo came back to the studio, got mike, steve, and scoble on and they talked it all out - hopefully everything is all good - it was re-running on the stream, i think that's over tho and the stream is on to the next re-run - Chris Heath

Can I download the show somewhere? - Wo

dave: in the 'second half' of the GG mike admitted that he only apologizes about once a year, and that he was being and asshole - Chris Heath

Downloads available here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

i think mike and leo are cool now - but steve still seemed pissed that the audience doesn't read his mind or something - it's kind of akin to how steve get's irked by people asking about the podcast for the GG (which hasn't been available since april) - steve moving over to twit widend his audience and he probably feels a bit out of control of his show since the audience (live audience... more... - Chris Heath

as I stated earlier on Twitter I have blocked techcrunch via OpenDNS settings - John Blanton from twhirl

Listening to the continuing discussion of this blow up reminds me of the reaction of the NPR Planet Money blog commenters to Adam Davidson's interview with Elizabeth Warren. Long after the protagonists have calmed down and made peace, the internet seethes with rage. Where's the sense of perspective, friendfeed peeps? - Matt Hall

Yeah, but he's unboxed a Pre at this point so... yeah :) - Jay Cuthrell

Matt Hall -- it's only been like 4 hours since it happened. That's hardly "long after" ;-) - jccalhoun

jccalhoun - In the real-time world it is ;) - Matt Hall

If you go by Steve's logic and he doesn't care about the audience, then it doesn't matter if the plug is pulled. Don't think Leo minds banter, but just doesn't want the kind of p2p internal drama trolling you'd see on a World of Warcraft forum per say. Mike was def out of line, he apologized. Steve on the other hand seems like he needs to let "his" show go to Leo. Leo appears... more... - Jonathan Langdale

Here's the NPR Planet Money episode and blog post I mentioned, for those of you who can't get enough of the drama: http://www.npr.org/blogs... - Matt Hall

Dave: Mike posted an appology on Techcrunch - Nicholas James

Most entertaining GG moment ever! - Douglas

I am a huge TWiT content listener, and the primary emotion I feel after all of the shows is typically enthusiasm, optimism, and general good feeling. GG often leaves me frustrated over lack of manners, respect, and behavior issues. Passion over topics cannot disguise the fact that the overriding tone is contrary to the rest of the TWiT shows. I think it does not fit. - Amac

This one is rapidly heading for 1500 comment territory... http://friendfeed.com/search... - Jay Cuthrell

Leo doesn't need to "take over" the Gillmor Gang, he has TWiT among others which I think with the cross-pollination of some elements of the GG (JC for example) and exclusion of others (MA), is almost as good an experience. What amazes me is that Arrington still wonders why he polarises so many people... - Hamish MacEwan

Just woke up from a Nice little Nap Has the GG been recorded somewhere? Really would like to see Todays GG 2.0 - Erle Stride

Erle: You can only see the voice recording but they are located here http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... thanks to http://friendfeed.com/jackx1 - Nicholas James

Thank you Nicholas - Erle Stride

it doesn't surprise me in the least to hear a flippant remark from Arrington anytime a serious Apple competitor is brought into the conversation. Good for you Leo, he seriously needed a lesson in humility amd you delivered masterfully - jcunwired

Anyone that Listens to MacBreak or TWiT knows that Leo has said he was going to buy a Pre a hundred times. Receiving a review copy means nothing, that is the industry standard practice. No apologies needed Leo, you were justified to be upset. Keep up the great work and you have my support! - John - becomingamac.com

I think Leo should either pull the show from TWiT or allow someone else (Colleen?) sit in his seat to produce the show. Steve and Leo have very different goals. Leo puts his focus on the quality of the product for the audience. Steve puts his emphasis on running the show and doesn't care as much about quality. Leo spends thousands on equipment and facilities; Steve probably bought his webcam and headset on clearance and hosts the show from a rumpus room. - Matt Matthews

it appears that there is a demand for gg and if leo thinks its in the best interest of his nework to host it, i support that. however i think that it may be something he should consider having someone else host. as his network grows he is going to need to share the helm and this may be a perfect opportunity. personally i would love to see it a little more like the old tech tv lineup.... more... - Tobias Lewsadder

Last week the Gillmor Gang was moved to Friday recordings and Leo did call in from home with Colleen runing the board. That was going to be the new recording arrangement but personal issues meant that the show couldn't be done this Friday and so they did it Saturday. So at least the plan was for Leo not to be appearing on the show from his studio any more. - jccalhoun

I'm sure Leo said that if someone came to the studio he'd be happy for them to host - Nicholas James

As far as I'm concerned the GG has always been an inferior offering which seemed only to serve the egos of those involved, long before it ever was hosted by TWiT Network. I don't think TWiT would be any the less without it. Regardless of the current argument. - Dave Wallace

Wow. Just saw what happened earlier. Good for Leo. I'm quite confident that Leo is not proud of his behavior, but Arrington has been an insufferable prick for quite some time, and utterly had this coming. That it came from Leo speaks volumes, and should have Arrington re-thinking his own conduct. - Phil Essing

Phil: Leo appologised on the 2nd Gillmor Gang and Mike appologised on a Techcrunch post. - Nicholas James

Nicholas James: Thanks for the update, but were these pro-forma apologies? Leo's reaction to Arrington's characteristic button-pushing was about as genuine as they come. I would expect Leo to apologise for his behavior, but not for putting Arrington in his rightful place. - Phil Essing

I have to add I really enjoy the GG when Leo is NOT in Studio Leo should step back and be a guest out of the studio - Erle Stride

This has to be the biggest FF comment list I've ever seen. I'm with Leo! - Jim Graham

Leo should install a big red kill button that cuts to re-runs for these cases or the occasional wardrobe malfunction. - KyleHase

Just listening to part 2. Scoble just called in... Michael and Leo still making up. Steve's still waiting to weigh in. I think the fundamental mismatch between Steve and Leo's approaches to dead air is irreconcilable, and today sort of brought that to the forefront. - Ken Sheppardson

Not just dead air, I guess. Hm. - Ken Sheppardson

Two tribal leaders collide... which one do you choose as a role model for your kids? - randulo

We love you Leo! - Imran Idris

Not sure why people are calling for the GG to be removed from the Twit Network. It's an odd fit but a good one nonetheless. Whatever happens I am glad that apologies have been exchanged and we can draw the line on this drama. - Jamie

Been thinking about all of this since it happened, and particularly about the impression that people took away from Steve's comment about community. Unfortunately, people listened to the first part without putting it into the larger context of the entire statement. When looked at in the context of the entire statement, it is completely consistent with how Steve Gillmor rolls. It is an... more... - Karoli

+1 Karoli - Brad Kligerman

The answer is clear. John C. Dvorak should be added to the mix. The TWiT+GG+CG trifecta would be the driving cat. - Jay Cuthrell

arrington shut down the comments on his post "ouch" at techcrunch dot com. he was getting ridiculously rude comments. isnt that why everyone was mad at him, for being rude? - Tobias Lewsadder

Tobias: Actually, they were mad at him for questioning Leo's integrity. That's a little different from being rude. I suppose they didn't listen to Part II of today's Gillmor Gang, where Leo and Mike made amends, and Mike admitted he was a couple of steps ahead in the conversation, forming a rant about Palm. It was an astonishing moment for me to hear him admit he was 100% wrong. Given that he did, rude comments seem a bit out of line. I'd have shut them down too. - Karoli

1164 comments. woah - Tyler Gillies

Tyler - I know right. This thread has two winners: 1. Palm 2. FriendFeed - Bwana ☠ from IM

a truly bad day with an incredibly awful end. Good night. - Tina Chase Gillmor

go @bwana, right arm! Yeah folks, Leo is human, he's still the brightest light around, no one has as much culture or as wide a knowledge of so much. He's like the opposite of FoxNews - randulo

I can't believe there is already a Keyboard Cat on this, lol. - Jamie

just stating the obvious: as everybody knows gilmor gang is pretty much a bunch of old men cursing, declaring their opinions, & highlighting time and again that ugly kindergarten fights can break out regardless of age, education or status. it fosters dirty tricks and underhanded-ness. at times it's trying to have an edge with uninteresting cheap shots. the people aspect detracts from... more... - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

1171 comments on one FF post...........that's got to be a record! - mark dekruyter

http://tiny.cc/0diXG Maybe this is why Palm didn't send Mike a Palm Pre to review???? "We’ve never broken an embargo at TechCrunch. Not once. Today that ends. From now our new policy is to break every embargo. We’ll happily agree to whatever you ask of us, and then we’ll just do whatever we feel like right after that. We may break an embargo by one minute or three days. We’ll choose at random." - Andy

@vstromdek but the record (now at 1173 posts with this one) is remarkable not only for the quantity of posts but also for its qualities> the diversity of points of view and the spontaneous manner that 2 communities (GG & TWiT) converged + deconverged around a strange and exceptional event. I agree @bwana, a victory for Friendfeed and real-time webs. - Brad Kligerman

BradKligerman .... you are right..I'll just say, I appreciate Leo Laporte taking the "high road"...it says alot. It's his show, and in that moment, he had enough of the blatant, uncontrolled, self promotion techniques of some guests, in this case, Mike A. - mark dekruyter

The G.G. show has always had a different feel or flavor to it: this blowup might have been inevitable...the tone of G.G. is so different than Twit. - mark dekruyter

WOW!!! Leo said a bad word. - Joe Demartino

...but I truly believe Leo is underestimating the essential force of Gillmor Gang: it is NOT a question of 'drama,' rather a question of the creative process engaged through critical confrontation, whose goal is the emergence of raw IDEAS. 'Idea' does not always = 'content.' The entropic spin-off of this process can perhaps be 'dramatic,' but drama is neither the intention, the device nor the content. - Brad Kligerman

That was amazing. Don't press the buttons of the man pressing the buttons, huh? I think some animosity was brewing from Leo over the Last.fm RIAA issue that TechCrunch was on to. I like a lot of TWiT shows: the enthusiasm, humor and inquisitiveness draw me in. Now more than before, I appreciate the transparency of disclosures (review unit vs. purchase) that have always been there, but not as glaringly emphasized. - Kevykev

The GG is the only show I don't watch on TWiT. It won't be missed, Leo. Don't waste your time with it anymore and focus your time on the other great content you create. That guy is a jerk and you don't need to feel bad or regret what you did. - MIQAL

Questioning Leo's integrity was uncalled for. I don't know Leo other than listening to his netcasts since twit started and despite our limited digital one-way interaction I trust his judgment and wait to hear what he says about a gadget before I seriously considering purchasing. Leo's a seasoned enough professional that he's probably over the whole thing by now. Leo - From 9,000 miles and 10 times zones away - keep up the great work! - Anant Gairola

Had a feeling it would be busy here................. - Kevin J Hatton

Karoli-I heard Steve's comment re: community as he will not pander to any "community." If a community forms around his work great and if it doesn't that is ok too, is my take away from his comment. I am sure Leo having the power to shut down the show was a turning point as well, where it leads will be interesting to see. - Jim Posner

karoli- i consider questioning someones integrity to be rude and insulting. arrington came off as a jerk. i did listen to that second gg and was rather impressed by how open both were and actually was a bit saddened by arringtons current emotional status. steves comments on how it was "his" show were a bit annoying but he is right. it would be interesting to see how well the show did... more... - Tobias Lewsadder

This gets a *facepalm* award for obvious reasons... see http://friendfeed.com/ffacepa... - Richard ¿digame? Walker

Jim: The community that forms around editorial integrity is a far better one than the opposite. The issue of control, though...that's huge. Tobias: I agree that death threats are always out of line. And my dislike for Arrington and feelings that he has no compunction about stomping on people and then playing the victim when they push back do not mean that I support in any way, shape or... more... - Karoli

wasn't a fan of Steve Gillmor and didn't care for show didn't watch after second one - Bob

keyboard cat #2 on digg.com http://digg.com/gadgets... I dont know if this makes me love the internet more or hate it. - Thomas McGivern

Loren Feldman's video response is good. - Stephen M. Otto

Way to go Leo. - Ryan Grier

The second part of the show (post blow-up -- with Leo, Michael, Steve, and Scoble) is replaying right now on http://live.twit.tv. - Ken Sheppardson

Seems a lot of brouhaha about a couple friends having a spat. Not sure doing this in the public-stream is adding much value. It's a bit like watching Oprha Winfrey and Barbara Walters having a spat on their show. Maybe it's entertainment? - Michael Metz

Listening to the replay of the post-blow up broadcast. I totally understand why Leo blew up. I recently had a similar blow up where an aspect of integrity was questioned by someone close to me, and it hit a nerve. On the other hand, I think the purpose of GG is to probe deeply, and sometimes prosecutorially. If Leo doesn't want that style on his network, he should set GG free. - Stephen M. Otto

Wow. I always miss the good stuff. Well not "good" but you know what I mean. - Rustic Thoughts

Wow the Pre is a might sexier than my bulky android with that ridiculous "chin" - Rustic Thoughts

I love the intro music.... - Rustic Thoughts

hey from georgia STILL WITH LEO the twits vedios out of order again stick kams working ok - daveccorey

I'm jumping in--I wasn't at Woodstock, but I'm part of this historic conversation. And I'm with Leo. Anyone who has followed Leo for any length of time knows Leo's ethics. Shame on you Mike Arrington. You embarrassed yourself. And you revealed your true self. - Hamilton Wallace

historic like the inauguration? - Franz Sittampalam from IM

Hmm. . .wonder how many more people will know about the Pre as a result of Arrington's dickishness? Could this be something new: the Arrington bump? - Hamilton Wallace

Would love to see Arrington on Cranky Geeks. Great job, Leo!!! - Jim Corkrum

We can haz FF entry for TWiT? - Ken Sheppardson

thanks to Denise we will in a second ken - Chris Heath

I love Friendfeed! I don't find it difficult, not even a little bit. - MarK

I wish the newest post in the thread was at the top. On mobile, it's a HUGE pain to scroll through all of the messages to the bottom. - Karoli

Leo, you did the right thing. Mike A. is an A-hole. - Samuel Cohen

is that my denise!!? - jeneane sessum

(still watching) - jeneane sessum

Wow... that Bing video search is... let's just say the secure web gateway market just got a nice pop. - Jay Cuthrell

I came to all this late, but from what I've seen, there were quick apologies between the principles involved, why did any(every)one feel the need to get on a side and rail against one or the other when in fact, the 2 people involved pretty quickly made their peace. - Matthew DeVries

Matthew: Everybody was pretty much already on a side. This just gave them a reason to cheer for their team and against the other guy. - Ken Sheppardson

If Leo and Arrington were to war, I'd back Leo without question, but they made nice pretty quick. I can't stand Arrington and think the spitter had the right idea (spitting isn't real violence, just a sign of respect) but now everyone went and pushed him out of this sphere, which lessens it. Without the other side, this will become an echo chamber. We'll all start congratulating each other for pushing the water closer to the shore: http://www.zefrank.com/theshow... - Matthew DeVries

Matthew, that's the nature of news. Breaking news goes viral but the follow-ups often do not. The live-web amplifies this sequence. - KyleHase

In case anyone hasn't heard it, the 2nd part of the show is here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

I can empathize with Leo. I've flown off the handle in similar situations. Arrington did have an intriguing point, but it seems like he hijacked the conversation and got burned trying to be sensational. If he had waited for a break in the conversation around whether the Pre was actually any good and brought up his point as a topic of discussion, things would have gone much better. I think I'll steer clear of GG. - Sam Ellis

Dude, MA is a total Richard. I am suprised you put up with it as long as you have. Everyone has limits man, I hope you don't feel guilty for it. - Adam Deem

I'd love to filter out comments that are mostly "Person X is a(n) [adjective Y] noun Z." They are EXTREMELY tiresome to wade through. If you have built a case on an individual write it up and point to it. Then you can enjoy moderating idiotic comments to your own post. That said, what I read here before my eyes glazed over isn't so bad on the whole. - Richard ¿digame? Walker

Christian Bale vs Leo Laporte vs Mike Arrington REMIX (with added calacanis dancing): http://tinyurl.com/l2vmyf - Linton Davies

ZGood Job Leo It your network and everyone need to keep that in mind - Richard Thomson

My rather late 2 cents on the Arrington/LaPorte exchange are here: http://bit.ly/aKZUc But Leo, you raise a MORE IMPORTANT POINT! The GG is not a good fit for your network. A few weeks you all laughed when my comment calling Gilmore "mean" bubbled up on the Skype-a-sarous. There is a reason that his show results in flame outs. Its the rather mean/unkind manner of the host. Guests take... more... - Dale Dietrich

Dale: I've been listening to some back issues of the GG and News Gang since this incident. I'm seeing that SG is very good at what he does, though he does it in a prickly and abrasive way. Sometimes he can be abrupt, but he is well informed and opinionated. It would be good for Leo to keep the GG in the TWiT stable - it broadens his portfolio, it keeps the cutting edge and insightful... more... - Jason Miller

Jason Miller: Well said. Steve is the best at what he does. It does take effort to get in the groove, but it's worth every second. - Karoli

Got here from TechCrunch. FriendFeed: ".. the nearest thing to Shangri-La for mob justice enthusiasts.". - Marisa Duma

Louis Gray

There's nothing quite like beard hair in your nose and sugar on your pants! (via http://friendfeed.com/ffunder...)

June 5 - Comment - Like - Share

Carmen, Kol Tregaskes, Jacque and 24 other people liked this

Hahahaah - Mo Kargas

9 more comments

isn't this cheating? :) - WorldofHiglet

Yes. - Louis Gray

Damn that's one weird scene! - jcunwired

Yeah, it took me a while to realise I was seeing double (or, in the case of the doughnuts - double, double!) - WorldofHiglet

I thought Johnny had been stung in the lip by a bee at first glance! - jcunwired

Me too, even though he told me what he was posting right before he posted it. It looks like a grotesque fat lip for a second. :D - Josh Haley

I thought he was eating someone's enormous foot and those were giant toes sticking out his mouth - Nathan Rein

joe bag-a-donuts - jeneane sessum

"Snacks for later" with a beard generally means crumbs, not two entire doughnuts. - DGentry

Hahahah... true - Johnny Worthington

Steve Rubel

Two Georgians Say They Have Bigfoot’s Body - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2008...

August 15, 2008 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Lindsey is Fierce!, Mike Boudreaux, Al Stevens and 6 other people liked this

OK, I now know what my Halloween costume is... "on Friday at a hotel in Palo Alto, Calif., a pair of Bigfoot hunters say they will present what they contend is the most definitive proof yet of an animal that science says does not exist: DNA evidence and photographs of a dead specimen they say they found in a remote swath of woods in northern Georgia." - Steve Rubel from Bookmarklet

19 more comments

1) I can't believe this is in the New York Times and 2) I *so* want it to be true. - Sprague D

@Sprague it's always been true! The Toot Fairy told me when I was a kid. - Steve Rubel

What time is the Press Conference? If this is a viral marketing scam I hope someone cockpunches those guys. - Internet's Tad

The press conference is at noon, and I'll be there! - John McCrea

"This is 'Eureka!' man...I touched it!" I'm not holding my breath on this one. - cmiper

@John you must Twitter it. - Steve Rubel

“I’m not asking anyone to believe us,” Mr. Dyer said. “I’m just asking them to sit and watch, because you’re going to eat your words.” - WOW. I'd like to eat my words. Nom! - AJ Batac

#bigfoot? - Hutch Carpenter

Is Geraldo going to be there? - Dave Pelland

@John you HAVE to live blog or twitter - hey i've been working on this story for days since my daughter got on a bigfoot craze BEFORE the people up the road actually found him. Or a costume resemblance thereof. "RickMat" as they call him. http://searchingforbigfoot.com/ - jeneane sessum

I beeeeeeeelieeeeeevvvvveeee! - Steve Rubel

Their advertising and PR firm looks a little... uh... hmmm - http://www.barrows.com/ - jeneane sessum

Apparently the dude does some hip hop in his spare time -- YEAH that guy barrows: http://www.barrows.com/RunforO... - oh it's worth the click. - jeneane sessum

Imagine if it is human. I would be thinking murder. This could backfire on these guys. - Admiral70

their ad agency guy also developed the ahead-of-its-time cemetary of lies video gravestone. GAH! http://www.barrows.com/inventi... - jeneane sessum

@Jeff all you have to do in Georgia is drag him inside, and it's self-defense. Word. - jeneane sessum

Damn those Russians! ;-) - Brent Logan

Did the Russians shoot him? - Morgan Warstler

I guess if you suffer from hypertrichosis, you shouldn't visit Georgia. - Ken Morley

Bump an old post meme - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Marshall Kirkpatrick

Is This Why Twitter Changed Its Replies Policy? http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...

May 13 - Comment - Like - Share

CdL Creative, Ryan, Louis Gray and 14 other people liked this

Our speculation on what the technical issues are. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

6 more comments

One of my suspicious suppositions was that they are trying to drive their Suggested Users feature as the primary source for new people to follow which they would monetize if they haven't already. I like the Facebook-like "people you follow also follow these people" idea you suggest. But honestly, is Twitter valuable enough to enough people yet to offer a premium paid service? - Gregg Scott

good stuff. Venturebeat offers this slant...and variation on the theme http://venturebeat.com/2009... - paisano

Can't see that as a big money-maker. Few of us used the all-replies feature. I'm wondering if Twitter doesn't get it's own service now. - phil baumann

very nice post. i'd tweet it... if i could. - jeneane sessum

phil: agreed. Gregg: what you wrote is almost identical to what I think and have described today over a series of tweets (not tubes ;)). - Vlad Bobleanta

Very good post. Insightful but I think we should just blame Oprah. - Al Stevens

Left a long, long comment. I guess this issue has me worked up. - Liz

jeneane sessum

Did you know: 1/2 of 1 percent (0.5%) of all practicing psychologists are black men.

May 13 - Comment - Like - Share

stats & resources: http://www.doctortownes.com/mentalh... - jeneane sessum

jeneane sessum

ooooo-doggies, friendfeed got slick while i was busy @ing on twitter lo these last couple of months.

May 13 - Comment - Like - Share

Molly and FFing Enigma (aka Tina) liked this

Yes it did. Come to the light, Jeneane - Louis Gray

i wish moving houses was this easy. i think i'm already unpacked over here. OH but web 2.0 users are fickle. Our fickleness is our power. :-) - jeneane sessum

i know, caught me by surprise too! i might just have to spend more time on the old FF! - Crackle

Carmen to Carmen's feed, TattOO

World’s First Eyeball Tattoo - http://www.absoluterandom.com/worlds-...

May 13 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Ekin Ertaç, Paul Greer, ocde.cn and 7 other people liked this

gah! - Carmen from Bookmarklet

15 more comments

eep! - holly

WHAT - YoYo_P

eeeek - Shevonne

OWWW! - Candace

double GAH! - Lindsey is Fierce!

this is just so sick - Martin

ack! - Jackie Peters

Ew. - Louis Gray

Fremen - You're doing it wrong - Josh Haley

way? - jeneane sessum

Why? - M F

Holy Shit! :: I wish I'd never seen that ... and also ... I must have one NOW - Salty Droid

At least he got Dune eyes! - Erica Toelle

I'm not impressed, I just wonder how soon he'll be blind in that eye. Dork.. - Mike Lewis

Going to be difficult to comply with appearance rules if he applies for a job with that or the thing on his forehead. Enjoy the stockroom at Best Buy. - Bailey McCann

...why not just get colored contacts, Eensteen? - .LAG liked that

Shevonne

Busty Figurine Likened to 'Paleolithic Playboy' - http://dsc.discovery.com/news...

May 13 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Todd Hoff, jeneane sessum, Violet Mae Lim and 4 other people liked this

"An ivory figurine with prominent breasts and buttocks and other exaggerated sexual characteristics is the world's oldest known depiction of a woman, and likely that of any human being, according to research published in this week's issue of the journal Nature." - Shevonne from Bookmarklet

2 more comments

looks like the ginger root in Pan's Labyrinth - LogEx

Also looks like the ginger root of Pam Anderson. - Steve C

ok if the brain didn't look so little, i'd be down with this representation. well, and the no feet. and the ginormous genitalia. (off to look up related domain names...) - jeneane sessum

Louis Gray

Twitter's Cap of 2,000 Following In Action!

August 11, 2008 from email - Comment - Like - Share

Nicholas James, Jacob, Voyagerfan5761 and 61 other people liked this

As mentioned earlier today, Twitter seems to have capped your ability to follow at 2,000 people, which just so happens to be exactly where I am. The goal, in theory, is to stop marketing-oriented spammers, but it could be another way to reduce stress on the system. So what should I do now, delete "less favored" people, or wait for Twitter to figure this out? - Louis Gray from email

32 more comments

Maybe it's the legacy talking, but I'm really not bothered by this. :P - l0ckergn0me

I can see why they do it, but it does suck for the people who do it legitimately and are not using stupid mass follow scripts. - David Risley

I'm not super-concerned either, but it does answer why all of a sudden, I started getting these errors last week. It could be part of their "Making Progress On Spam" initiative via the blog, but it hasn't been spelled out all that clearly. - Louis Gray

let blame this one on Scobles... :)- - Peter Dawson

Louis, I think cap is more of the architecture the system. Making it into a more robust platform. Now watermarks have been set, it becomes easier to build consistency of experience and application behavior. <Edit > wait for Twitter to figure it out.. Marketing spammers are targeting the 'stupid' one that have the auto follow !! - Peter Dawson

gotta like it, if I'm the one you are trying to follow! - Ben Hedrington

I don't think there should be limits like this, but I guess everything can't be infinite - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

I honestly am indifferent about it; Twitter is going to hell and i tried my best to convert it; oh well, Hell has cookies - Gordon Swaby

I"m only following 49... with 106 followers.. - Ian May

so what do you think, Louis, is benhedrington worth going to the mat for? - Nathan Rein

I'm sure I can find someone to unfollow in exchange for Ben. - Louis Gray

Twitter needs to build in groups functionality a la tweetdeck for following 2K+ to even be practical. - Nicholas Molnar

Louis: You need to convince the new people to head over here :) - Justin Korn

I'm just curious what the rationale is for following that many people. - Paul Rodriguez

Well, maybe that's why Louis always seems to know what's going on before anybody else. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

I've noticed that most of the time I get followed by somebody with a big number, it tends to be marketing play. It triggers the email to you and then you go look and click on their bio link which takes you to the pitch. Very irritating. I always block em. - Mark Schulz

@Paul Rodriguez, I was wondering that too. I wouldn't have even guessed there are 2000 interesting people in the world </cynicism>, but what fascinate me is that i'm following like 83 people and only about 14 of them tweet regularly. I can assume most of those 2000 do not tweet regularly. Add in the fact that I'm a WAHM to two toddlers, and do other stuff, there'd be a lot of stuff I'd miss. - Admiral Anika

New profit center? Sorry, but now you'll have to join Twitter Pro .... - Charlie Anzman

Info restrictions suck:( - Igor Poltavskiy

Very interesting. System limits is going to be a topic that we all work through in this early phase of the Social Web. It seems to me that it's reasonable to cap the number one follows to 1,000 or 2,000. On the flipside, one would clearly like to enable a very high number of followers. With respect to bi-directional connections, the real number should max at 1,000 to 2,000... - John McCrea

This is awesome! Incidentally, Scoble (@Scobleizer) is still following over 30K. - Vincent van Wylick

So where is the point following 30k people? You might as well hit the main timeline. The only thing that is bad about this limit is that it was not there from the beginning. - Alexander Kohlhofer

@kevinrose: 56K+. Losing 54K+? - Igor Poltavskiy

so what's going to happen to those who follow over 2000? - Wayne Sutton

you follow two. thousand. people.??? never mind twitter; there may be a law against that. - jeneane sessum

I like the new limit. I cannot see how anyone would be able to legitimately follow (and pay attention to) more than 2,000 people. Frankly, even that limit seems higher than it needs to be. If it helps keep Twitter a little more stable, go for it. - Dennis Metzcher

Couple thoughts: the limit impacts the ability to use the service as a direct message router -- for some people. It also reinforces the need for dectralized microblogging -- so if you want exceed the limits you can do so on your own infrastructure. Lastly, nothing prevents you from following everyone or a subset of people through RSS/feeds. - Chris Messina

Are we sure that Twitter has set a 2,000 limit are or we cranking up the rumor mill? I've seen image before with respect to my own account - an account which just reached 1,000 followers today. According the Twitter rep who contacted me, I got - ahem - put in "Twitter Prison" for "Aggressive Following" My ratio of Followers to Following was kinda out of whack - at that time I had only ~800 people following me while I was following ~2,800 - They suspended my ability to follow more people. I removed 2K. - Vincent Wright

I don't understand the motivation for following 2K people if you're not a spammer... someone explain? - Jason Carreira

Jason: For a entrepreneur/VC/angel networker, it would be very easy to hit 2,000 contacts (assuming you used Twitter like a rolodex). From one networking meeting, I might pick up 0-100+ business cards (more at conferences), and during a heavy season I could be doing 7-10 meetings/week. As a angel, I might want to follow 5,000-10,000+ projects/people. Anyone might have a really good project 2-10+ years down the pipe... I've got cartons/boxes of 3-ring binders of business cards in plastic sheets. - Mitchell Tsai

@Mitchell @Charlie - Rumors aside, do you think the cap is a gesture towards monetization? Going after the power networkers? Seems you would have good cause to pay for a Twitter Pro, or would it just not be worth it? - joneilortiz

I use Twitter as both a professional development tool (following people who say useful and interesting things abt health / edtech / social media / libraries ...), a personal tool (friends and folk who are amusing), and a reference tool (following a lot of news streams and information resources). You can hit 2000 fast. A friend says that people are imagining new ways in which Twitter could be used, but Twitter seems bound and determined to force them back into some small box of how it "ought" to be. - Patricia F. Anderson

I would happily follow more than 2000 people, heck I am almost there. And I don't need to see every message. With Tweetdeck it's manageable. I see some Friendfeed users here have thousands to tens of thousands of subscriptions, should we also say it's good to have a cap here? No, please no. I understand that perhaps it has to do with monetization or stressing the system less, these are alas viable reasons. - Jacob

Robert Scoble

Scoble in the shower

September 24, 2008 from email - Comment - Like - Share

Jesse Stay, HealingBrush, Rohit Harshvardhan and 66 other people liked this

awe for the love of.... - jeneane sessum

85 more comments

Do. Not. Want. - Glen Mistletoe

.... uh... - Johnny Worthington

HAAAAAAaaaaahhahahahahaha!!! This and the drinking pic NEED to be paired together! - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

For the love of ... oh, man. Now I have to go wash my eyes out! :) - Tim Hoeck

My eyes are burning!!! - Jeff

Why? Why would you do such a thing to the friendfeedosphere...it now looks all warped and raggedy. - Alex Scoble

do...not...want... - Helen Sventitsky

OHHHHHH MY EYES!!!!! *LOL* - Mol, Santa Claws

I feel so dirty. But I can't bear the thought of a shower. -

Reboot. - Russellreno

HIDE!!!!!! - AJ Batac

Seeming a little needy, maybe? - Oldengrey (Jay)

what the frick!? This is why sometimes social networking is just TOO MUCH sharing. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

oh no, I'm scarred for life! the horror!! - imabonehead

OMG!! Happy wet drunk! Ok so what will be the "story"?! And how did you go from Fenway to Cab to Shower!! LOL - Susan Beebe

Thankfully, blessedly, tame. *brain crashes anyway* - Mo Kargas

At least he's clothed sitting next to me now! - David Recordon

now you have gone to far, Robert. ^^ - ※Fu※

Oh, weren't you bitching about FF stupid posts not making you smarter last week? Well, here ya go. No more bitching. We get to talk about bacon again. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Off to have nightmares. :-P -

new Meme? - anna sauce

NO!!! -

Clay Shirkey: the problem is a failure of filters. Indeed. ;-) - Sprague D

*cough* TMI *cough cough* - Steve Isaacs

TMI! - Lindsay

What on earth. I swore shower was some kind of metaphor - why is this taking place? - Shawn Farner

Wha??? - Mike Doeff

anna - yes! we need shower pics of everyone! LOL - Susan Beebe

uhhhhh okay - Alisha

MY EYES!!! @_@ Meme?!? Just a sec... - Ron

Bacon :-) - Robert Scoble

well we know what tomorrow's caption contest will be on Valleywag :-) - Duncan Riley

There have been too many pics of his naked chest this week. -

Yeah, I don't care how many people take pictures of themselves in the shower, I'm not gonna join in that memefest. No thank you. Besides you've already seen my brother in the shower...Remove some weight, adjust the nose a bit and you've got me too...ugh...that's just so wrong. - Alex Scoble

Nooooooooooooo! - WorldofHiglet

the goggles, they do nothing! - Mark Wilson

I don't even want to know. - DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE from fftogo

Wait, a shower meme? Oh, ain't no WAY ya'll are getting a picture of me in the shower. EF NO! - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

"I'm a PC!" - imabonehead

Wow. lol - Jennifer Leggio

Tina: Why not? It will be fun. lol :D - Ron

Hilarious! - Chris Luckhardt

My eyes!!! TMI - Paul W. Swansen

scoble bullying the irish spring - Cee Bee

Whiskey tango foxtrot, Oscar? - Susan A. Kitchens

someone get this man a hairdryer NOW! - thomasrdotorg from twhirl

Tina: I hope they don't do a shower meme. I'm not going to take a picture of myself in the shower, no matter how drunk you get me. *lol* - Mol, Santa Claws

Is this your entry for the bitch face meme? It's a very disappointingly happy bitch face. - Pete Delucchi

Why do you hate America? - Jason Carreira

For the love of God, PLEEZ don't drop the soap. - Dawn

I've been Scobelized. And I'll never be the same. - ComicList

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