Jill Hurst-Wahl - Comments

LSW: Joan

I fear getting shunned for posting this, but this blog post really resonated with me: http://www.libraryjournal.com/blog...

17 hours ago - Comment - Like - Share

Fiona Bradley liked this

Especially this part about attending library school in person: "The value of that community is that the learning is always happening, and in unpredictable and useful ways. Students hang out in the hallway chatting about a reading, or they sit around over beers talking through their experiences in the library, or they bump into that professor who's actually pretty good and strike up a friendship that matters long after library school is over. They develop relationships through this intense immersion that are more meaningful than being your Facebook friend. I thought most of the classes in library school were ridiculously easy, but I met many bright, warm, challenging, giving, and sometimes annoying people in library school who are still among my closest friends and professional allies. There are bonds that cannot be forged through emails and tweets and online discussions. They have to be lived in person." - Joan

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ACK! You should have said that it was AL--I never would have clicked! It burns! It burns! - Rochelle Rochelle

The AL has close friends? Huh. - josh neff, geek at large

+5 for Josh and +10 for Rochelle. - David Rothman (☤)

And Joan? No one's going to shun you for this. (But if you're really the Annoyed Librarian, I have some suggestions on how you can be funnier & less annoying in your blogging.) - josh neff, geek at large

Knowing that it's the Annoyed Librarian, I'm not clicking through. But as far as that paragraph goes, I think it's a reasonable position to hold. I also think it's not practical for everyone. I'd guess that most people would find it difficult to really feel part of the profession without an in-person library network. Whether that comes from library school or a job or something else... more... - s t e v e

For the AL, that was actually fairly reasonable. I would put up against it, however, the very real value of knowing how to create and foster community online. - D0r0th34

wow...that's actually a half way decent posting from her/it/whatever but I don't agree. I mean look at LSW I consider this a great place to learn from people and I can't say I've met but maybe a 1/8 of the people that are members, but I learn from everyone here. And frankly I did meet some of the people I went to classes with and I can say I don't wanna have beers ith many of them. - Sir Shuping

Unliking and not reading based on the the commentary. - Derrick

Oh, don't let us bias you, Derrick. I mean, I despise the AL for any number of reasons, but Joan got something out of this, so it can't be all bad. - josh neff, geek at large

Ack to the AL, but I actually agree about the in-person class thing. Having done grad school both ways, i really dont like the impersonality of online programs. And I'm a grad school expert at this point ;) Steve - I'd argue it's not just about the library network - there's something to be said for a network for first-time grad students, as well. It's not easy to maintain work-life-school balance. And Steve, a great number of library school students do not work in - nor have ever worked in - libraries. - ωαřмaiden, MFA'd poet

Derrick the Annoyed Librarian is a VERY loaded subject with too much history and baggage to go into. - s t e v e

I'm still in touch with three of my cohorts--albeit more on an annual basis than "frequent". We were the four "kids under 30" in my program and all were graduate assistants so we had a foundation there. But I couldn't tell you when last I communicated with any of my professors... - Abigail wants more eggnog

Gotcha. - Derrick

"I met many bright, warm, challenging, giving, and sometimes annoying people in library school who are still among my closest friends and professional allies." - I did too; Pitt FastTrack (online) MLIS grad. - Rachel Walden

I'll admit, as strong a proponent of online networks as I am, I only took in-person classes in grad school because I wanted the classroom experience, just as the AL describes it. And hey, that's how Iris and I know each other, so... - josh neff, geek at large

I am not the Annoyed Librarian! But I don't hate her, unlike seemingly the rest of LSW. It cracks me up that some of you all like what she has to say here but still harsh on her. - Joan

Colleen, you could be right about the first part. I didn't really feel like I needed a grad school network (though if I lacked it, I might have missed it), but perhaps most people do. As for the second point--that many library school students don't/haven't worked in libraries--I am sure you are right and that's what I was trying to push against. A person who is in an online program and... more... - s t e v e

Joan, I dislike the AL for her style, rhetoric, attitude, and so on. Like Michael Gorman, actually. With both AL and Gorman, many of their actual positions are worth arguing about. Just not with them, personally. - s t e v e

As I tweeted, 'Great for you & others in f2f, but I'm no less of a well-connected librarian b/c I have a hybrid degree while working w/family.' I became active in WA library orgs while an online student in Texas and made the most of both networks. Clinical Reader probably will be the greatest 'unpredictable and useful learning experience' I'm likely to have in my library career & I wouldn't have made it through that without all y'all. - Nikki D.

I also think post-school online networks are great, but in-person school is an excellent foundation for an entire career. I'm not harshing on folks who got their degrees online--I think it makes particular sense for people already working libraries--but I really value the community I developed in my program, where my education and practice informed each other. - Joan

I'm thinking of a library assistant I knew at Mason who got her MLS via distance-ed and is now a librarian. She really floored the accelerator on making a community out of the far-flung students in her cohort. It was good for them and GREAT for her; she got a phenomenal experiential education in community-building that will serve her extremely well in her career. I put that up against... more... - D0r0th34

Steve - Yup. And I understand it from both sides - the online programs are tempting from a time-management (and occasionally an ease standpoint, depending on where you are), and are the only way some folks would be able to do the degree. I just dont agree that an in-person progra (or course offerings) are "less," since there are valid - and I would argue important - reasons for them.... more... - ωαřмaiden, MFA'd poet

"Online or f2f, libschool is what you MAKE it" - yes, yes, yes. - Rachel Walden

I think really that online classes benefits are going to vary from person to person, always have and always will. And now that Dortohea has posted again I agree with her - Sir Shuping

not that I disagree with Joan that there's a question of individual fit, because I do very much think there is - D0r0th34

Agreed that it's what you make it/individual decision. I would simply ask all people going into this to think about a few things: will it drive you nuts not to be able to talk to someone in person about this stuff? If you haven't worked in a library and are not working in a library, how will you convince someone to give you that first professional job? - s t e v e

troo dat, Steve - D0r0th34

Again, I think it's people already working in libraries who benefit most from faster-paced and/or online programs. - Joan

The image of hanging out and having the student "experience" is a fallacy for many students. When I was an undergraduate, I was married, out of the Army, older and had a full-time job. There was no sitting around in hallways waiting to kiss up to profs. It was years of desperately trying to survive. Now that I am much older, I can not see the advantage of seeking a "Leave it to Beaver" non-realistic educational experience in "Library" school. But then I am getting grumpier by the day! - Tim Keneipp

Steve, that was well put--regarding the AL and Gorman. I know people get all riled up by the AL, but I think she makes some really interesting points. - Joan

Good point, Tim. That certainly is the experience of most of my students. - marthalib

Well, there is definitely networking value to be had through one's libschool colleagues, Tim, and it may well be easier for some (or even all) to make those contacts f2f. I am in no way prepared to say, however, that Derrick (for example) is in ANY way disadvantaged by hanging out with us and going to school online. Rather the opposite, I suspect; time will tell. Your point about rose-colored glasses on the "student experience" is well-taken. - D0r0th34

My bias here is that I went to a large (100 students/year), full-time program with mostly other full-time students, and most of us were working in libraries. It was a very rich experience and very different from what I hear from a lot of other people. It probably didn't hurt that I was at my beloved alma mater. - Joan

After all this, I do feel compelled to read the link, and FWIW, I would prefer a classroom experience; I've not worked in a library (although I signed all my volunteer forms yesterday) and have been out and away from academia for so long, I think just being on a college campus would help to jumpstart me. - Derrick

By the way, I don't hear anyone suggesting we abandon online or in-person programs. That was definitely NOT the point of my posting here. - Joan

Derrick, don't apologize for agreeing with the AL! She's controversial because she's pseudonymous, primarily, and snarks heavily. The library world is pretty small, and I think people get pissed because they don't know who she is. But not all of her posts are crazy at all. I'd suggest it's good to add her blog to your feeder because she obviously provokes librarians into conversation about big issues in our field. - Joan

By the way, I find it amusing that you assume that the anarchic collective we deem LSW agrees on *anything*. :) - marthalib

Noted, Joan. And I haven't read it just yet. I will keep her apparent volatile nature in mind, though. Can't have the lightning without the thunder. - Derrick

The AL's pseudonymousness is only one of the reasons I dislike the AL. "Her" constant straw man arguments, playing "herself" as some kind of persecuted minority, her bitter & vicious sniping, her ad hominem attacks are better reasons why I dislike "her" so. - josh neff, geek at large

(deleted my comment here b/c i was wrong, people, wrong!) - Joan

huh? - marthalib

Who's pissed at you, Joan? Not me! - josh neff, geek at large

whose pissed? all the comments i see are just discussing the topic. I don't think anyone is pissed at you joan, some folks just don't agree with the AL - Sir Shuping

Yawn. I think that is what we should all do whenever the name of the AL is brought into a conversation. Yawn... because having this same conversation every month or so is not fun and makes me stay away. So therefore I yawn at the AL and everyone else who takes themselves or their personal persecution to seriously. Yawn, pass the chocolate, I am so out of here. zzzzzzzzzzzz - Tim Keneipp

Riled up, then. - Joan

Well, now I'm curious. My objective in returning to school is to end up in an academic setting as a librarian. If I attended an online program (which very might be the case if I don't make it into my my in-person first choice), how does one get themselves into a setting where they can learn what it is to be an academic librarian if the bulk (100%) of the work is online? - Derrick

Derrick, seek internship possibilities in local academic libraries. That's what I did (academic health sciences) during my online program and they didn't want to let me go, hence my first/current job. - Nikki D.

Joan: I don't see anyone angry with you. Derrick: Might be a good question for a separate thread? I'm sure there are people who have done that (O HAI NIKKI). - s t e v e

Okay, I retract my point! Actually I mis-read something! See, maybe I'd have better online skills if I hadn't gone f2f for school! - Joan

Will do. - Derrick

Didn't the AL write a similar post a few months ago, except where "she" said that in-person programs were better only because online ones weren't sufficiently boring enough to demonstrate what it was actually like to be a librarian? - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

I know people who did online MLIS programs who had a rich experience with great community, but I'm concerned for the people who don't get in-person practical experience to augment the theory-based course content. I know some *library staff* taking fully online programs who are not taking advantage of being in an academic library and leveraging the resources available at their disposal... more... - Kaijsa Calkins

Has anyone done a linguistic analysis of the text from the AL to see if the blog is written by more than one person? - joe is...

"I'm concerned for the people who don't get in-person practical experience to augment the theory-based course content." - I think that's the case for both types of programs. - Rachel Walden

Agreed, Rachel. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

I went to a F2F program, and while I met some nice people, there's only one who I consider a true friend. Luckily, we had similar paths: we went the corporate route and ended up not only in the same library system but in the same division. I'm only slightly choked that she outranks me. ;-) - cecily

There has to be some irony about a blog post about building a f2f community on a website that has no community to it whatsoever. At any rate, AL is operating on the old notions of what a community is. Yes, there is certainly merit to having the face to face time with your fellow students, but for the generation coming up (I straddle the Gen X and Gen Y birth dates, so for this, I... more... - Andy Woodworth

Our online students at SU spend one week on campus at the beginning of their MSLIS, then do the rest online. What is amazing is what a strong bond they do build with each other. I think some of our campus students are jealous! Our campus students often work and only come to campus for classes. So while they do see each other, I think that they don't always hang out together. This isn't like the old days when you spent all day on campus. Lots of the work can be done from home (or elsewhere). - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Rachel, you're totally right. Both online and on-campus programs need to be augmented with authentic experiences. I won't name some people I knew in lib school who didn't work in a library and didn't do fieldwork or an internship, then were shocked not to find a job in a tight job market after graduation. On the topic of making friends in library school, maybe my experience is unique,... more... - Kaijsa Calkins

LSW: Derrick

Well, now I'm curious. My objective in attending library school is to end up in an academic setting as a librarian. If I attended an online program how does one get themselves into a setting where they can learn what it is to be an academic librarian if the bulk (100%) of the work is online?

15 hours ago - Comment - Like - Share

Nikki just said internships, which now seems blatantly obvious. *rattles the cobwebs in the head* - Derrick

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Yeah, I'm actually not sure why in-person school would necessarily help you learn this? - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

I think many of us associate on-campus programs with many opportunities for employment, etc. where it's understood that you are there to learn more than as a long-term job. Having never really had an internship, that plan didn't occur to me either. - s t e v e

I did an online program and if anything I think it helped me understand students better, since more stuff is moving to online course sites. - Kendra <3 Three Lions

I think the most important thing is to be immersed, for work and school to be all about libraries. You don't need to attend f2f for this to happen; sometimes it just makes it easier. - Joan

Meg, I guess I'm taking it for granted that in-person school would have an on-campus library and that the two go together. Is it safe to assume this isn't automatically the case? - Derrick

Also, many f2f programs have ga-ships as part of the degree program, which can make life a lot easier and school a lot cheaper. - Joan

Seconding Nikki - I did MLIS part time while working full-time in an academic med library (where I am employed). Also did a practicum in another academic med library for credit. I highly recommend to both on campus and remote students to get some practical experience in a library somewhere along the line. - Rachel Walden

Oh, sure, but you wouldn't just hang out all day, every day, to watch them work, right? (PRO TIP: that will freak them out) And I think that you could get an internship at pretty much any academic library. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

Joan, that's a good point, I hadn't thought of that. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

Good to know, Meg. Thanks for the insight. That puts me at ease for the ambivalence I had towards online programs. - Derrick

Another data point: I'm almost done with my online MLIS, though I was already an academic librarian when I started, and had worked in reference for 3 years before that. I also had 10 days of f2f coursework at the beginning of my degree, and went back to campus for 8 days each summer to knock out a class. I've met about 3-4 people during those on-campus times who have become fantastic and supportive friends/colleagues. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

Derrick, candidates who have an MLIS... and nothing else... just don't rise to the top of my candidate list. Ever. Because there are always candidates with a brand-new MLIS AND internships, part-time work experience, and/or volunteer gigs. Those people have more demonstrable experience to discuss in terms of success, failure, and relevance than the ones who don't have those experiences.... more... - Jenica

I'm honestly surprised that internships aren't a required part of more library school programs. FWIW, I had ZERO prior experience *or* community in the library field before I began my online studies in fall 2006 & graduated in fall 2007 while working a non-library job & raising a family. I made (and am still making) the most of every opportunity. That gets you places. - Nikki D.

Jenica, that helps a lot also. I'm still in my infancy of trying to determine which program is the best fit for me (although the costs are my biggest hurdle; I need to start looking at grants and scholarships as well), but all of this is really good information. I think I might widen my net a bit since I feel less intimidated by online only pgorams. - Derrick

In my experience, there were no internships. We did have graduate teaching assistantships where you were placed in libraries on campus. The large public libraries also staff their desks on Sundays with library school students. If I were in a position to hire, I'd be more inclined to look at someone with a more well-rounded background rather than someone who has only worked in libraries.... more... - cecily

FWIW, I never wanted to work in libraries when I entered library school. My first three jobs post-MLIS were all in corporations (of various sizes). Yet here I am, working at a public library, and I only took *one* course that had to do with public library services when I was in school. Where you land may not be where you plan. The more malleable you are around that fact, the better off you will be. - cecily

And lastly, it isn't guaranteed that just because you're at a school with an MLIS program that they have a hand-in-hand arrangement with the libraries on their campus. Some do. Some don't. UBC has roughly 17 different libraries/service divisions where MLIS students *could* work, but when I was there, only about 3 grad assistantships opened up in a year. - cecily

Cecily, I think that the more I arm myself with the knowledge I pick up here, the more I look forward to school. I think I what's best for me is a good, well-rounded program. - Derrick

You can learn a lot. You can also start working yourself into a panic. EDIT: I guess my point is that it's a good idea to have a general idea of expectations before you begin to apply, but many of those expectations won't prove to be factual once you're actually in school. Your success in library school, just like any other professional school, will largely depend on what you bring to... more... - cecily

I think these are all just good things to think about, and to be able to ask the school about. In Derrick's case, I think working in higher ed before will be a very good thing to show when looking for that first professional job. How a person takes all this will depend on his/her makeup. I tend to need this kind of discussion to kick me out of a stupor and start thinking about it. Other people may be see all this stuff and just panic. - s t e v e

Cecily, you know I love you. Thanks for that. And Steve, I forget that I already work in higher ed, and have for years. I really need to sit down and do a resume or CV; I haven't in a long time. Anyway, this is all really good information and I am indebted for what everyone's contributed. - Derrick

PRECISELY. You got this already, babe. Stop worrying. - cecily

*stops worrying* (but not about the GRE) *cries* - Derrick

Tip for that, ask local libraries if they have access to http://www.gale.cengage.com/Testing... among their resources. Their GRE study tips & practice tests helped me because my fear of that test was a real barrier. - Nikki D.

Nikki, that sounds awesome. I think what I have, more than anything, is just an irrational fear of the test. I have a year to conquer it. And try and do well. Thanks for the link. - Derrick

Right, WORRYING is a waste of time. Also librarians = pathologically helpful. We will help you until you beg for mercy. - s t e v e

*snicker* - Baroness Von SmashAHomie

Everybody has excellent advice. My strategy in library school was make it what I wanted it to me and to take advantage of every opportunity. Most importantly, I took the time to write about each course, job, internship, etc. in a reflective way that communicated how the experience was relevant to my career goals. It made job searching and interviewing so much easier to have already thought that stuff out. - Kaijsa Calkins

Adding to Kaijsa's last comment, I found it useful to read job opening descriptions from various types of libraries I thought I was interested in to find out what some of the usual requirements/skills needed are. - Rachel Walden

I did an in-person MLIS, and while I worked at one of the campus libraries (and a public library) while I was in school, the program didn't set that up for me, it was posted on one of the student mailing lists and I applied. The same could have easily happened in a distance program. - kristin buxton

I should add I'm proactive to the point of nervy: I directly asked librarians whose jobs interested me about internship possibilities, my internship was not posted anywhere. I was the 1st here and there have been 2 others since (but they only hired me ;). The worst they can say is no. The best is that they'll realize you're a smart cookie and help things happen :) - Nikki D.

You'll be amazed at what you'll learn in an online class. Because everyone needs to participate, you'll get a better understanding of their experiences and be able to learn from them. And there will likely be assignments that will have you interacting f2f with librarians and working with/in local libraries. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Nikki D++. Guts go a long way when you're new in the profession. I've talked to and/or helped a fair few students who approached me out of the blue -- and loved every minute of it, so DON'T think you're imposing on a librarian just by asking. Meeting proto-librarians feels like the best thing I do. - D0r0th34

Late to the thread, but yes, remember that your pre-MLS experience can count for a lot. I went into library school intending to be a corporate librarian. I'm an academic librarian with business subject knowledge because of my pre-library school experience (I did get some library experience in school as a student assistant, but the big seller was my business knowledge). - ÉllbeeÇee

Shevonne

Teacher cuts off girl's hair in school - http://shine.yahoo.com/event...

Tuesday from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Mahdi Ebrahimi, Jason Huebel, Daniel J. Pritchett and 15 other people liked this

"When Lamya Cammon , a first-grader at Congress Elementary in Milwaukee, was caught playing with her hair, her teacher brought her to the front of the class, cut off one of her braids with a pair of classroom scissors, and threw it in the trash. "She told me to stop playing with it. Then cut it off and sent me back to my desk," Cammon said in an interview with Milwaukee's News 12." - Shevonne from Bookmarklet

69 more comments

NOPE. - Derrick

Exactly - Shevonne

Pretty sure that's assault. I'm no lawyer, though. - Josh Haley

HAHAHA I would have beat down a teach who touched my hair, then my mama would have done the same. What the hell was she thinking? - Admiral Anika

OMGWTF. - Ayşe E.

When I was registering for class as a sophomore, the vice principal was walking the line with a pair of scissors, either offering to cut any guy's hair that was below the collar or sending them home. I told him he wasn't laying a hand on me so I left and registered later. Later that school year, after getting in trouble for some shenanigans in chemistry class, for a punishment he... more... - Akiva Moskovitz

WHAT? - Shey, Jamaican of FF from iPhone

That is just nuts! She needs to be slapped and then fired. And at some point, someone should cut her hair. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

That teacher would have got her ass beat. Legal or not, I'm quite sure my kids mother would consider that assault on her child and it would be on and poppin. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

I don't like thinking about what I would do if I were the parent in this case. - ha3rvey, not a sweetheart

The American education system is doing a terrific job of preparing young Americans for the America in which they live, one where they have no personal freedoms or autonomy and no access to the right to express themselves or rights set out in the Constitution. In fact, in teaching students the Constitution the education system is perpetrating, imo, the biggest hypocrisy I've ever seen. - Will Higgins™

Calm down, Will. Remember, hair grows back. - Akiva Moskovitz

What if your boss told you you had to cut your hair or you'd get sacked? Kids->Adults, rights. - Will Higgins™

That teacher is in for a world of hurt. - cecily from iPhone

No doubt, Akiva. The teacher was out of line, but really? As I recall, "freedom of expression" was not the norm when I was in school. If it had been, we would not have accomplished much. - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

I'm not allowed to have facial hair at my job. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

My job dictates all sorts of things about my appearance, as do many corporate jobs. - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

My boss can sack me for far less than cutting my hair. - Glen Mistletoe

What's the reason for that rule, 'Sheen? - Will Higgins™

If you work in a Disney Park: No moustache allowed (at least it used to be true, not sure today). EDIT: Correction, no facial hair at all until year 2000 at which point it became *only* neatly trimmed moustache. - Micah Wittman

The reason for our rules is that we are representing the company, and the company wants to project a specific image. That is generally why companies have dress codes, grooming policies, etc. - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

Will, employers do enforce dress codes. It's not some violation of freedom. If you don't like it, suck it up and go get a job that better suits your Flock of Seagulls hairstyle. - Akiva Moskovitz

The difference is that you guys are adults and can make choices about facial hair, etc. I doubt that a boss would bring you in front of the company and forcibly shave you. This child's mother put a lot of love and work into her daughter's hair; to cut it off crosses a major line and says more about that teacher's inability to manage a single student than it does about the child. - cecily from iPhone

Cutting a child's hair as punishment is seriously out of line. How could anyone even *think* to do something like that?? - Kamilah Gill

cecily, right, and I don't mean my comments to construe that I support this (as my first comment should prove). I was just snarking on Will unnecessarily taking this opportunity to utilize an isolated incident as a rationalize to mount his bitter soapbox. - Akiva Moskovitz

So wrong!! Completely out of line. And, while a lot of people twirl their hair, I wonder if that "teacher" knows that it is a common behavior among girls with ADHD who don't always express the hyperactive part in the same way that boys do. Regardless, no one should get in trouble for twirling his/her hair and cutting a child's hair without permission is way over the line. - Katy S

Asking the child to go home and cut their hair is fine, schools here do that to keep up their appearance but to cut it themselves is way out of line. No one should be touching anyone, unless you're in Asia (that's another story). My work also gets us to be clean shaven unless you've already got an established beard which must be tidy. - Andrew Trinh from IM

cecily: no question that the teacher was wildly out of line. My comments had more to do with Will's passionate, if hyperbolic, decrying of the loss of personal freedom. While cutting off *a braid* was wrong, in the grand scheme of things I don't see that it equates to, say, turning the firehoses on protesters in Birmingham, or even striking misbehaving children (as often happened/happens in schools). I therefore contend that the response in this thread is, by and large, somewhat overwrought. - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

Bren and I are forming a unified front. - Akiva Moskovitz

The People's Front? - Johnny Worthington

Front 242. - Akiva Moskovitz

Front Line Assembly. Wait, what? - Rob Haas

Apparently, the men see this as an opportunity to front. - Katy S

I _knew_ this thread was actually a Front for free-flowing discussion. (and yes, the teacher was way out of line) - Micah Wittman

Assemblage 23? Oh. - Akiva Moskovitz

Who would have ever guessed? - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

:( - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

*blink* - Michael W. May

Um, I would say that the fact that the teacher actually gives a crap if her students pay attention or not is kind of a good thing, even if her methods are unorthodox. People grabbing torches and chasing the monster to the lake is kind of the reason we're probably going to see more teachers caring less in the near future. Why bother when this could be the result? - Noah Belson

...#bitchlips - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

This isn't care, it's abuse, Noah. There's a difference. - Kamilah Gill

I do not see this as a good example of a teacher who "cares"; rather, this is an example of a teacher who has not established control of the class, and has acted inappropriately in lieu of proper discipline. - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

That's true, Kamilah. Though I'm wondering where we're going to draw the line as more and more stories like this crop up. What's next to be considered abuse? Making kids spit out gum? Giving them detention? This time the teacher was in the wrong, but next time she may not be and we're likely to be so gung ho that we completely jump off the deep end (which we humans do so well). Just a thought... - Noah Belson

Noah - did you see my comment about kids with adhd? Behaviors like hair twirling can actually help them focus on the task at hand. I'm not saying this girl has adhd, but teachers should be aware of this sort of thing. Also, the kid's in 1st grade. She's probably only 6 or 7. If the teacher couldn't handle hair twirling, she probably can't handle other behavior issues that happen at that age. - Katy S

I'm surprised it took so long for someone to break out the old "slippery slope" ... Thanks for not letting me down, Noah - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

All true, Katy. No question, what the teacher did was wrong. - Noah Belson

Are teachers even allowed to discipline kids at all anymore? In any way whatsoever? - Akiva Moskovitz

Bren, I'm not sure which worse, being the guy on the internet who does something cliched, or being the guy who points out the guy who does something cliched. Both are kind of odious, but the latter can't really exist without the former. - Noah Belson

Detention and making kids spit out gum don't involve touching the offending child. This case here was a violation. Paddling *used* to be okay, but it's not anymore, probably because it could easily be abused. Cutting a kid's hair off has never been okay. How do you think your parent would have felt back when you were a kid if you got a hunk of your hair cut off as punishment by some adult? or how would you feel about this happening to your own child? - Kamilah Gill

Akiva - Of course they can. Cutting off a child's hair is not discipline, though. It is assault. Having said that, some states (and it all depends on individual state laws and then the local school district regulations ) still permit corporal punishment. I don't agree with that. There are many other ways to discipline children that don't involve assaulting them. - Katy S

I'm pretty sure it's clear which I'd rather be. - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

Given what you said and when you said it, it's abundantly clear, yep. - Noah Belson

Although, I do try to pick my spots. I save my snark for only the most egregious occassions. - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

Actually I respect that, Bren. I try to do the same, though with limited success. - Noah Belson

Kamilah - Did you know that corporal punishment is legal in Indiana? It is banned in many individual school districts and schools, but the state allows it. - Katy S

No. Hope Carmel bans it. We need to get out of the frigging dark ages here. This state gets on my nerves regularly. - Kamilah Gill

I'm pretty sure my former district does now. When I was in elementary school, it didn't, although I do remember when there was a switch from allowing teachers to paddle students to only allowing the principal to do it. I remember in 5th grade there were 3 boys in my science class who were paddled by the teacher at least once a week. You'd think that teacher would notice that his idea of discipline didn't work. If it did, there would not be weekly paddlings of the same kids. - Katy S

I'd be worried that someone was getting a perverse thrill out of paddling kids, especially in that weekly paddling situation you describe... - Kamilah Gill

Yeah, me too. Those three were trouble and kept getting into trouble (although they did turn out to be mostly ok adults), but the constant paddling was not effective. - Katy S

i feel worse for the teacher than for the girl. the teacher should pay the fine and then be given some stress mgmt counseling. and then the US school system should be overhauled. see? so easy. ;) - edythe

IMO it was highly inappropriate on the teacher's part. First graders are going to fidget. It's not like the kid was doing anything outrageous. - Andrew C

Noah: I'm a lover, not a fighter ;) - Bren -- Not Grinchy

That was an abusive move on the part of the teacher. Sure, hair grows back, but to cut off the hair of a first grader for fidgeting? Gonna have a lot of bald kids. How about making the class a bit more interesting then... Anyways, if it were my child, I'd turn into a "monster parent" pretty darn quick. - Rick Cogley

" How about making the class a bit more interesting then" ... I'd probably argue against the assumption that class must be "interesting" - and argue that edutainment has destroyed creativity and self-discipline. Kids now wait to be entertained rather than being creative on their own. - LPH™ and his dog P™

In Japan, though, teachers' hands are tied so tightly that they can't do anything. My wife is an assistant teacher for the school district for English classes. Says it's completely out of control. Both my wife and I grew up when corporal punishment and other various abuses were considered normal, but now that pendulum has really swung so far to the other side, that teachers can't do or say anything, here in Japan, for fear they'll be sued. And this isn't even a litigious society. - Rick Cogley

LPH and/or dog P, yeah, maybe my comment was ill-considered. There are indeed a lot of influences that might contribute to a fidgety situation. - Rick Cogley

WTF? - Tyson Key

I'm one of those people that would normally be in favour of the teacher. Hair grows back, it's not really assault (no bodily HARM done, cutting hair doesn't hurt), and the teacher was trying to maintain order in the class. That being said, this is just idiotic. Kids (and adults, for that matter) play with hair all the time. Was this really something that needed disciplinary action? I'm... more... - FF's Bubba of Arizona

+1 Bubba - Tyson Key

Where was the teacher for this business: http://friendfeed.com/rochell... ?! - Micah Wittman

Mary Carmen

Inspired by comments: Which one do you loathe & despise more, the Jared or Kay Jewelers commercials?????

Sunday - Comment - Like - Share

rowlikeagirl, Amber, Random Time Lord, Penguin It's Cold Outside and 5 other people liked this

I think because its the holidays, both are upping the cheese factor in the commercials. I think I hate them both equally, but sometimes Jared makes me scream at the television. - Mary Carmen

16 more comments

Jared. Wait....yeah, Jared, I'm 99.99% positive I hate them more. - ÉllbeeÇee

Jared. Especially the one with the guy and the GPS. - Michelle Martinez

Jared. The whole "he went to jared!" schtick where women go all twitterpated makes me want to kill people, whereas "every kiss begins with Kay" is sort of a fun play on words. - ωαřмaiden, MFA'd poet

The "He Went To Jared" crossword. If that's what Marriage is about, count me out. - Jon, the Chilled Beartato

I hate commercials that equate love with slave labor. - Internet's Tad

I think they're about the same in terms of cringe-worthiness. Granted, I don't have a tv so I'm only rarely exposed to them. I might have missed some recent heinousness. - Katy S

fwiw, I will require slave-labor diamonds of my future fiancee for him to prove he really loves me. Well, really any diamonds will do... - ωαřмaiden, MFA'd poet

"every kids begins with Kay" makes me think hooker or threesome; I change the Jared commercial to say the diarama of jewelry - RAPatton from iPhone

I hate both of them, but Jared is a little worse because it condenses so much of what's wrong with the marriage-industrial complex into one highly toxic bite-sized piece, and passes it off as romantic. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

I dislike both of them. They are stupid commercials that want us to believe that the best gift is a diamond that you'll have to go into debt in order to buy. BTW have you heard about the "chocolate" diamond? There are commercials for them. I think...chocolate...mmm...isn't that an imperfect diamond? I mean a diamond is suppose to be without color. So pay a ton of money for something people wouldn't have bought previous cause they would have called it imperfect! - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Jared. But thinking about it made me remember the funniest bit of the last Parks and Rec: http://www.hulu.com/watch... - Chris Munro

Yes. - Steven Perez

Man, that's a tough one. Every kiss most certainly does NOT begin with Kay, and I sure as hell wouldn't be all, "HE WENT TO JARED" if I got engaged. - Laura H.

I guess Kay since they have more ..... - VAL D. Zone

I can't choose. I rant at the television for both. - joey

I hate them both equally, I think. - ha3rvey, not a sweetheart

Kay. But Jared is not much better - Marissa

joey to joey's feed, Alex Scoble

Alex, if you want me to take these down, please let me know :)

Screen shot 2009-12-12 at 4.47.57 PM.png

Screen shot 2009-12-12 at 4.51.10 PM.png

Saturday - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen, Kurt Starnes, ebru and 122 other people liked this

Alex Scoble and his lovely bride Cassie. - joey

40 more comments

Yay, you got the kiss! - Alix Whitmire

oh :) - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML

Wonderful! - WorldofHiglet

nice.............. - VAL D. Zone

Thanks for posting these, joey. I couldn't connect to the webcam to watch it myself. - Jason Huebel

Good catch Joey! - CW™

Yay! I couldn't get the webcam to show up either, so thanks for posting & CONGRATS ALEX & CASSIE! - Penguin It's Cold Outside

It was a great wedding! - Robert Scoble from iPhone

And a mazel tov to Alex and Cassie! - Akiva Moskovitz

Congrats Alex! :) - Oğuz Serdar

Yay!!! - Derrick from iPhone

Wow...congrats Alex!!! - Kamath (नमः)

I like the Christmas tree in the background! Beautiful! - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Whoa .... Congratulations you guys!!! - Charlie Anzman

Congratulations Alex & new wife :) - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

Congratulations, Alex and Cassie! What a beautiful moment! - Anne Bouey

That's great! - SAM

Congrats to both of you! - Spidra Webster

Congratulations Scobles. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

Congrats!!! Makes me more excited for my day (uh...her day) in 7 months! - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

Beautiful! Congrats Alex! - Carmen

Congrats..! - ★ Soner Gönül

Congratulations - You make a beautiful couple! - Tony C

Wow! Gorgeous. Congrats!!! - rowlikeagirl

Congratulations Mr and Mrs Scoble. - Eric Logan

Mazel Tov! :-) - Mathew A. Koeneker

Love it! - David Cook

Awesomesauce! - Alex Scoble

Congratulations! - Elena

w00t! - AJ Batac

Congrats to the two of you. - Derek Coward

Congrats looks like a wonderful wedding! - Rasmus Lauridsen from iPhone

Beautiful photos and congrats to both of you! - Emma

Congrats to the latest Mr. & Mrs. Scoble! ;-p - Robyn Hawk

Thanks, Joey! - Alex Scoble

Congratulations, Alex & Cassie! May your marriage be full of win. - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

Congrats Alex!! - Rachel Lea Fox

Congrats!!!!! :-D - Live4Emma (L4S)

Congratulations From Asia - Robert Higgins

Congratulations! - Mark "DerBingle" J

Totally forgot the big day was yeeterday. Congrats to you both!! - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

marthalib to marthalib's feed, LSW

Are we excited yet? The very first Upper Midwest Library Society of the World Meetup is TOMORROW in beautiful La Crosse, Wisconsin!! The Chez Raccoon Kitchen is cranking out delicious culinary delights full force and I am ready to hit the road tomorrow morning. Shall we review some of the details?

December 11 - Comment - Like - Share

Junebug (aka Sarah Jill), ethan meccage and Galadriel C. liked this

If you still want to sign up: http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewfor.... - marthalib

29 more comments

If you have signed up: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc... - marthalib

Schedule: Library Hopping on Saturday afternoon! Meet at 2:00 pm at UWL (to carpool) to Viterbo (2:30-3:30) with Jen or local lib as tour guide; La Crosse Public Library (4-5:00)/Abs as tour guide; UW-La Crosse (5:15-6:30)/Jen/Gal as tour guide. 6:30--descend upon Rochelle for yummy dinner. - marthalib

Parking @ UW-L: Turn off of La Crosse Ave., on to East Ave. (http://tiny.cc/uWdW9). Next, look for Commuter Parking Lot C3 on your *right* - park free on weekends (http://tiny.cc/ebff3). Here's a campus parking map: http://www.uwlax.edu/parking.... Once parked, head west (building w/ black windows will be on left, brick building will be on right). Murphy Library just off the far west end of the parking lot - entrance image: http://tinyurl.com/yhwbcj6. - marthalib

Rochelle's location and contact information: 335 S. 22nd St. La Crosse. Home phone: 608.782.2052 - marthalib

the phone number for my primitive, featureless cell phone: 612-388-5477. - marthalib

We still need to figure out where to gather on Sunday morning. I'm thinking a coffee shop with food, perhaps someplace not too eggy? Ideas? - marthalib

Thanks to the La Crosse peeps for hosting us and making the local arrangements. I'm looking forward to meeting you. - marthalib

Woot. - s t e v e

*cries* I wish I could be there. - cecily

*busily typing all the info into Syrabub* - D0r0th34

I'm letting Mister sleep late so he rest up for the estrogen wave that's about to come crashing into our house. The F:M ratio will be approximately 5:1. ;-P - Rochelle Rochelle

5:1 sounds about right. Usually, it's closer to 4:1, but today skews a little more toward publibs. - Julian

I'm bringin' Apples to Apples. - D0r0th34

Mister is actually pretty excited to meet folks. This gathering will be right up there with attending Sandy Berman's retirement celebration in New Orleans about 10 years ago. He felt right at home with all the catalogers. - Rochelle Rochelle

gosh, are there any catalogers coming? I do metadata, is that close enough? - D0r0th34

Holy cow, you went to Sandy Berman's retirement celebration? In New Orleans? I bet that was a great time. - marthalib

Oh, yes. He's also a geek, so, if anyone wants to talk tech, the man cave will be open for business (it's also the warmest room in the house). - Rochelle Rochelle

I got invited by my good GSLIS IL pal, KR Roberto. Mister came along for the ride because he'd never been to New Orleans. That was also the year I heard Andrei Codrescu speak--as a result of that, a friendship was born. That was a great conference. - Rochelle Rochelle

For the record, Rochelle, that famous (notorious?) conference in New Orleans was "only" in 2006! I did not get to Sandy's party, but was at the Codrescu-Gorman event. It was my "swan song" on the ALA Exec Board. Little did I know that 2+ years later I would be living here. All y'all should come to ALA Annual summer after next for a reprise! (2011) - Michael Golrick

No no no--this was 1999. AC use to be an ALA conference regular until his duke-out w/Gorman. - Rochelle Rochelle from fftogo

ah, Gorman... such a contributor to the profession, that man... and so very very welcoming. - D0r0th34

oooh, do tell, Rochelle. or tell us tonight :) - marthalib

the codrescu-gorman event was midwinter 2006 here in san antonio http://www.libraryjournal.com/article... - Luke Rosenberger

Hope you guys and gals have a great time today. Will be thinking of you all, and wishing I was there. - joe is...

Drinking from my Cod mug and thinking of you all! - laura x

I misread and thought that we all were Uppidy not "upper". - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Yup, the Uppidy Midwest, just south of the base of the Uppidy Peninsula :) - Zen Master the Librarian

Here's the photo from ALA illustrating the Gorman/Codrescu president's program. http://images.google.com/imgres... - Rochelle Rochelle

It was a good time. Thanks to everyone who came to La Crosse! It was great to meet you all! - Tim Keneipp

Thanks to Galadriel et al. for the hospitality and Rochelle for the food and all of you just for being there! :-) - Betsy (bentley) Vera

Derrick

Just stuck two bucks in a slot machine $80.

Saturday from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Brome, edythe, Rob Haas and 24 other people liked this

Came out. $80 came out. Geez. #notdrunk - Derrick from iPhone

10 more comments

Someone is hung up on 'came out' ;p Who are you hinting at?! - joey

Anderson Cooper? - Derrick from iPhone

What great lucK! - Spidra Webster

Anderson Cooper finally came out? - Jill Hurst-Wahl

No Jill. He's too hung up on it. Allegedly. O_o - Derrick from iPhone

Maybe you should send him some hints via Twitter. It seems to be your lucky day. - joey

:) joey. - Derrick from iPhone

As a former denizen of Las Vegas: Quit while you're ahead. - Michael R. Bernstein

I am now back in my room watching ESPN. Pants? C'mon now... - Derrick from iPhone

I got lucky at the craps table, but only play if everyone else is winning. I started with $100 and ended up with $550 - Haggis (Sean Loyless)

Good for you! I agree- stop there. - R1CC1

Katy S

Welcome to Boss Creations ~ Putting CHRIST Back into CHRIST-mas - http://www.bosscreations.net/index...

December 9 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Kenton, Andrizzle Gizzle, adf and 3 other people liked this

"Boss Creations is the best source for your faith-inspired holiday decoration needs. We offer a variety of unique, innovative and high-quality Christian-themed decorations that are sure to enhance your holiday celebration! Our collection of inspiring trees, wreaths and other decorations are designed to remind us of the true meaning of the Christmas holiday. Let us help you to put Christ back into Christmas this holiday season." - Katy S from Bookmarklet

22 more comments

Forgive them, they know not what it is they have done. - Katy S

*head desk* - Admiral Anika

This is worse than the chocolate crucifxes at Easter. I can't even begin to imagine putting presents under a tree with a murderous torture devise. - Katy S

Haha, this puts the LOL in LORD - Adrian

is...is this real? i mean its not one of those fake sites like the penguin warehouse? - Sir Shuping

I can render that... for a fee. Who wants one? - Adrian

I think it's a real site. Other products are somewhat normal. It's the trees w/crosses that are the oddest. That, and the garlands shaped like crucifixes. - Katy S

it just kinda disturbs me, this business of MISSING THE POINT OF YOUR OWN DAMN HOLIDAY. O magnum mysterium, ut animalia viderent Dominum natum. - D0r0th34

Hey! They're on twitter: http://twitter.com/bosscre... - Katy S

OMG! They have "crown of thorns" ornaments!! - Katy S

Since that's the direction they seem to be going with this, I'm surprised they don't sell one with baby Jesus nailed to the cross. - Victor Ganata

Religious ornaments can be great, but mixing Christmas with Easter and Good Friday is not cool. These are probably the same type of people who don't know that the 12 days of Christmas start on Christmas day, not before. - Katy S

Exactly. I sentence them to a Handel "For unto us a child is born" earworm with an "All we like sheep" chaser. - D0r0th34

Well. They are also mixing a religious symbol with a pagan one. Oy. - laura x

gah - Richard Akerman from BuddyFeed

Even though I frequently tried to skip out on church as a kid/teen, I'm grateful for the fact that the one we attended(and it's pastor) was invested in education. Those catechetical classes were fairly serious and rigorous for middle school kids. We could ask any questions we wanted and we were expected to know our material. It wasn't until much later that I realized that most people don't get this type of education at their church. - Katy S

The mixing of non-Christian and Christian symbology I can understand. After all, we celebrate Christmas on the Saturnalia, and Easter is supposedly named for the Germanic goddess Eostre. But if you're confusing birth with torture and death, I think you've got serious problems. - Victor Ganata

If I was in someone's house and saw one of these (or one of the crucifix garlands), I'd try to get out of there as quickly as possible. As least the chocolate crucifixes http://www.flickr.com/photos... I saw at Easter were for the right holiday. - Katy S

I am without words. - Kamilah Gill

I "liked" this because I thought it was satire. Now I'm just...well...*shivers* - Kenton

Kenton - I think that's most people's reaction to it. - Katy S

Yuck! - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Katy: "Catechetical" is a great word. (As for the site, I have no words.) - Walt Crawford

Jason Griffey

Voting Results are In: SLA Will Not be Changing Its Name http://www.resourceshelf.com/2009... (via @LibraryStuff)

December 10 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Ruth, just Ruth liked this

meddle not with librarians - D0r0th34

Having been through this twice, I hope we can go many years without trying it again. Let's give the association time to heal. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Michael Porter

Dear twitter population, What is the cure for a sore throat? #sorethroat

December 7 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Ginger brandy works well for s sore throat. Always keep a bottle on hand, just in case. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Jill Hurst-Wahl

Deep Web Technologies is sponsoring a contest. (http://federatedsearchblog.com/2009... submissions are due by 12/15 and they are giving $1,000 to the top winner.

December 2 - Comment - Like - Share

The Challenge: Tell us about the most impressive federated search application you’ve ever seen, or about one you’ve dreamed up. How innovative can federated search be? What unique problems can it solve? - Jill Hurst-Wahl

s t e v e to s's feed, LSW

See Also… » Clueless faculty and uppity librarians - http://stevelawson.name/seealso...

November 24 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Jill Hurst-Wahl, Pete, Jeff Karlsen and 15 other people liked this

Looking at the recent articles from Inside Higher Ed that I first saw here on FF (the Syracuse storage kerfuffle and the "Reviving the Academic Library By Reducing It to a Warehouse" opinion piece), and offering advice for faculty and librarians. - s t e v e from Bookmarklet

56 more comments

I like this a lot. But. There's a well-known disconnect between what people DO and what they SAY THEY DO, especially when the question is values-laden. I'm quite willing to accept that people still browse physical stacks -- but I'm NOT willing to accept that only on the evidence that they say they do. Show me da numbers, please. - D0r0th34

I'd like to see research on this, too. Hell, I'd like to *do* research on this. Part of the problem, though, is that it is so subjective. What is a "good" number of people browsing? How many person-hours? How many browses per stroll? - s t e v e

I think this could be one of those cases where we look outside library and perhaps even academic for the best way to do a survey/study and talk to business that have succeeded. what is it they do that lets them know what the customer wants. i think they do that aspect a little bit better than academia sometimes - Sir Shuping

I left a comment on the post (I know, I'm such a Luddite). As to Dorothea's comment: It's hard to demonstrate browsing numbers, 'cause most users (myself included) really do put the books back on the shelves. But, you know, if your key users are saying "We think X is important," it's worth listening even if they can't "prove" that they do X often enough to suit you. - Walt Crawford

I left my comments on the blog, but I'll summarize: observe, observe, observe. Watch people in the field. Ask them questions at the point of contact. - cecily

Cecily, I absolutely agree, and would like to do more of that. But I think it would still be a good start for those "libraries are turning into malls" profs to just ask a dozen students about how they use the library and take a walk through and observe informally what goes on in the evening. I'd like to set up a real study, but the average pissed-off prof could spare a half hour to do those two things. - s t e v e

If your library is designed such that there are obvious passpoints (in my lib, the elevator lobbies), have a student sit there and do counts. It's a start. - D0r0th34

Agreed, Steve. We all need to watch, and listen, and do it with open minds -- all of us, librarians and faculty. I had to take a step back after realizing that our faculty really don't *get* that we have 50,000 online periodicals to compensate for the 1000 that we canceled in print over the last 15 years. They just see the cancellations. I had to really stop myself from believing that... more... - Jenica

Dorothea, when we conducted focus groups recently about how students do research (and these were professionally proctored focus groups) the students, particularly in the humanities, overwhelmingly volunteered stacks browsing as a preferred method. - lris

Okay. Now show me what they DO. - D0r0th34

I'm having trouble understanding the rub, I think. Do you mean that unless we see them opening books and glancing at introductions, they aren't actually browsing? - lris

No, the rub is that they've been told over and over again that Browsing Is A Good Thing, Good Students Browse Library Stacks, so if they're asked, they'll say they do that -- even when they haven't darkened the door of a library as long as they've been on campus. It doesn't matter who proctors the focus group, or how the question is worded. (Actually, that's not true. If you ask them "when was the last time you..." I believe some of the "pseudovirtue effect" goes away.) - D0r0th34

Even there, though, we are in Annie Hall territory. "I browse the stacks all the time! At least once a semester!" "He never browses the stacks, like maybe once a semester." - s t e v e

I guess to some degree, I don't give a damn how much they browse. If part of what they want in a library is a crapload of book stacks, let's put that on the table as something they want--for WHATEVER perverted reason--and decide together what else has to go so they can have the stacks. - s t e v e

There are lots of unquantifiable things about the research process, which is why I think that overarching point about dialog between librarians and researchers is important -- and that both sides have to start with the assumption that what the other side says is true. - lris

And, see, that's where we'll have to agree to disagree, Steve. I don't think it makes sense to maintain a largely-unused book warehouse just to give them a chance to feel virtuous and smart. If they're really-truly using it, fine, no worries. If not, there are better uses for resources IMO. (An interesting gedankenexperiment might be to announce that library stacks are going closed. If there's no similar uproar, that sez something about actual stacks usage and "browsing" behaviors.) - D0r0th34

No, I think I have to agree with Steve here. Put it on the table for discussion. And then, make it clear the realities of what will have to be sacrificed in order to maintain the book warehouse. In that reality-based scenario, it would be both interesting and valuable to find out what the researcher really wanted -- do they want a warehouse MORE than they want the other services the... more... - Jenica

Steve didn't say "lets give them a crapload of stacks." He said "let's talk together about what it would mean to maintain that." Dialog and trust are important. Scare tactics and superiority, not so much. - lris

Erm? I asked for DATA, Iris. Jenica, I'm a little dubious that the Neems of this world will sit tight long enough for an explanation of budget realities -- but you know more about that than I do. - D0r0th34

And maybe here's one reason librarians get dismissed as irrelevant by others: When librarians themselves refer to book collections as "book warehouses" and seem to be looking for any excuse to get rid of them. So the humanities scholars say "Screw you: You don't care about us" and the scientists never cared for the librarians anyway. Remember: One accountant in the provost's office can handle all the database subscriptions quite nicely. - Walt Crawford

Sorry if that comes off a little strident, but I do wonder about the extent to which librarians assume that nobody other than librarians listens to them trashing library collections and traditional services...or responds negatively. - Walt Crawford

Walt, my basement and second story stacks ARE a warehouse. We provide access to the materials, but no ancilliary services in that environment. I'm not ashamed of that. It's truth. The first floor is where we provide additional services beyond maintaining the book collection. I'm using casual language and not taking care with perceptions because I believed myself to be among friends. You... more... - Jenica

Walt, I've spent my entire career having the services I provide trashed, including (especially!) by other librarians. You went to the wrong librarian with that particular criticism. No sacred cows. - D0r0th34

Dorothea, I don't know that I've got faculty quite like Neem, so my perspectives are probably a bit different. And in the current NYS budget reality... everyone's listening. So I suspect we have a moment in time in which some key colleagues can be brought to understand where we're coming from, and in which we need to be listening especially closely to their concerns as we make decisions about the future. - Jenica

Yes, I think there is one sacred cow that I'm trying to deflate a little, and that's data. I'm all for it, but I also know that there are limitations, and that subjective experiences are not always quantifiable. Which brings me back to dialog and trust. - lris

I suspect there will always be Neems out there, and I think we shouldn't waste a whole lot of time trying to appease them. I think the overall point is that we all--and it's apparent that this goes for intra-librarian relations, too--need to try and understand each other better and assume good faith on all sides. - s t e v e

What we need is to set up wildlife trail monitors in the library: http://www.trailmaster.com/tm1550p... - catch 'em in the act. Or not. - Wayne Loftus

Coolio, Jenica. I sure hope the Neems are rare, and I have every faith that you choose your moments well. Iris, subjectivity is okay, but observation is necessary to get beyond common human self-delusions, social white lies (including those told in hopes of supporting friendly librarians!), and suchlike. (I think it's handwashing where these studies are particularly salient... people... more... - D0r0th34

My colleagues have heard it a million times from me: RFID all students upon acceptance. ;-) - lris

hee! and put keyloggers on all their computers! (no, of COURSE I'm not serious) - D0r0th34

Hell with the students, chip the faculty. Find out how much work we _really_ do... :-) - Cameron Neylon

Oh! And no more sinks!! People don't wash their hand anyway. - lris

SO. How about browsing the hybrid print/online environment. Anyone have any success stories? - s t e v e

Give it a year or two, Steve. I think the wide-angle catalog-plus mashup-like interfaces currently being built (including, for bias disclosure, at MPOW) have real potential. - D0r0th34

also, Cecily++; go read her comment on Steve's blog if you haven't already. Ethnography ftw. - D0r0th34

Thanks, Dorothea. - cecily

Hey there, Wayne. *waves* - marthalib

A lot of humanities and social science scholars who may not do a ton of research on a daily basis are very worried that a major way they encounter and seek information is being not only dissed but dismantled. This isn't about undergraduate behavior, it's a fear on the part of scholars (not at libraries like mine, but at research libraries) that the way they find things will disappear.... more... - barbara fister

This quote I just happened across seems apropos in light of Barbara's most recent comment: :It takes courage to work in new ways. Particularly with your immediate colleagues and friends. Yet so needed in the pioneering and evolutionary time we live in when we must risk the letting go of the old to find our way to the added benefit of the new." - spotted here: http://tennesonwoolf.blogspot.com/2009... - cecily

40 comments and we have yet to address one of the most important aspects of my post: the cartoons! - s t e v e

the cartoons are awesome! Encore, encore! - D0r0th34

Thank you. As you were. - s t e v e

The cartoons were my favorite part. Although as I'm leaning towards looking at what academic librarians are forced to deal with, I appreciated the take you presented in the post as well. - Derrick

in my new library of ~10,000 books, the stacks are closed. I see students hovering by the door to them, wondering if they can go in. (we offer to get books for them). I'm currently spending a lot of staff time getting the stacks ready for browsing / public access. We have a small, but meaningful collection of journo, photo, advertising books collocated, and I want students / fac to have access. I'm also doing a lot of weeding. - Stephanie_Thankful

Closed stacks remind me of an engineering postgrad who couldn't find a book (it had been misshelved) so suggested that we gate all the stacks and then give card access to approved borrowers to their specific areas of interest. I didn't have the heart to point out that it was a 50/50 chance that it was a staff member who'd misshelved the book anyway... - Deborah Fitchett

Late back to the party: Jenica: Your stack levels are browsable stacks with no internal services--certainly not unusual for academic libraries. (Of the nine tiers in the Doe library, at least when I was there, exactly one had any service points.) I dunno. Maybe over the past months/years, I've seen enough academic librarians turning up noses at public libraries *and* enough librarians... more... - Walt Crawford

Just strolled through the stacks (we only have about 95K books and serve 4-6K students) and there were 7 students either browsing or looking for something. - John Dupuis

when we let one of our senior faculty back into our stacks to look for something she came out saying "wow! I didn't know you had all that stuff!" One of my student staffers said "I bet circulation would increase if we let students back into the stacks." True, this is anecdotal, and clearly my library has stayed relevant for some time without open stacks, but I'm sensing a lot of push to open my stacks up. (which I will). - Stephanie_Thankful

Walt - honestly this is why when (if) I go back to working in a library I am thinking I will work in a public for the first time in my career. I'm really not liking a lot of the stuff that's happening in academic libraries of late - but maybe that's also because I didn't achieve all I wanted to when I worked in one. But on topic, my name is Fiona, and I love to browse the stacks. - Fiona Bradley

(It's about me, so it's anecdotal.) As a undergrad, I preferred to browse the stacks. Yes, I could've done a catalog search. But I didn't know any fields well enough to know what to look for. Catalog to get the general area, then browsing for discovery. By browsing I found this odd little book about mid-19th century belief in psychosomatic skin markings (stars, etc.) that gave me the start to a big Scarlet Letter paper that impressed the lit lecturer. - Betsy (bentley) Vera

Actually, Betsy, I think when it's "about you" it's anecdotal; when it's "about me," it is timeless universal truth. - s t e v e

Okay, then. It's universal truth. - Betsy (bentley) Vera

Simonizing to point out that there have been several interesting comments on the post itself. - s t e v e

BTW there was a forum held this week in order to gather input from the University community on the future of SU's Bird Library. I attended and the room was packed with undergraduate and graduate students, faculty members (including at least one department chair), and library staff. The Dean of Libraries was in the audience. The discussion was very lively. In general, people felt as if the library had not consulted the community on the changes it was making in regards to the use of library space. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

We are have some space constraints on campus, so several wondered if space in other buildings could be used for some of the services that are currently provided in the library (e.g., study space, reference services, etc.). For more info, read http://media.www.dailyorange.com/media... - Jill Hurst-Wahl

BTW one of the suggestions I made was holding part of new faculty orientation in the Library, specifically part of the progressive dinner. (Yup, I suggested eating in the library.) If faculty are suppose to suggest books, point out holes in the collection, etc., then let's find ways to get faculty in the building! Might as well start with new faculty. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Oh...one faculty member said that he tells his students to go to Cornell (one hour away) to do research! That definitely shows a lack of faith in the SU library. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Johnny Worthington

I love my grandma... We drove down the coast to see her and when I walked in the door, she handed me a MS LX-3000 USB headset and said get me Skype before you leave today. She also handed me a list of her friends from bridge, poker and some relatives skype names... She rocks :)

November 28 from iPhone - Comment - Like - Share

Holly Rae, Jason Huebel, Daniel J. Pritchett and 29 other people liked this

Hehe, even my Mum still doesn't get computers very well. ;-) - Kol Tregaskes

2 more comments

Well technology in general really. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

OMG! What a cool grandma! - rowlikeagirl

More of a tech-head that my husband! Very cool! - Jill Hurst-Wahl

LSW: JSNFLMNG

I have a question in light of a few discussion going on right now. Currently my only association is with LSW, but I think it might be helpful to join something else. Any suggestions for someone whose job appears to be 'Systems Librarian'

October 26 - Comment - Like - Share

Sir Shuping liked this

yeah. If you figure that out, let me know. - DJF

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LITA (which means ALA - sorry) - Zen Master the Librarian

I'm in ACM. I joined when I was working as a web manager but I've stayed because I enjoy the HCI angle and technology for development. There are other parts of ACM that may be relevant to you but yeah, they don't really do the librarian part. Actually I'm kind of surprised that others don't leap to mind (other than LITA). IFLA has an IT section. - Fiona Bradley

There is no ideal choice. ASIST is techie, but it's not especially librarianish, and its focus tends away from the day-to-day practical. LITA is perennially stuck five to ten years behind the curve, and is more public service than straight-up systems. SLA-- wait, Askpro-- yeah. Honestly, your best bet may be code4lib. - D0r0th34

LITA, despite what Dorothea says (I'm surprised that, as a non-member, she's so fully informed on everything happening in LITA and capable of such sweeping judgments!). In my long-ago experience, ASIST was actively anti-librarian and very pro-theory rather than actual systems--but that was a long time ago. But what do I know? I was only in systems for five decades. - Walt Crawford

With one big caveat on LITA: It is *very much* what you make of it--including fairly short-timeline programs and shorter-timeline discussions. What it isn't, is ITAL: The journal is not really representative of the division...partly, I think, *because* it's a refereed journal with entirely volunteer editorial staff. - Walt Crawford

Walt, I do have FRIENDS. Some of them are in LITA. They aren't shy about discussing it. LITA also has a public presence and a number of non-member-only publications about which conclusions can be drawn. Based on those, I stick with my characterization. I've been in librarianship for four and a half years, and I have YET to see LITA engage with any of *my* tech or lib-systems issues. ASIST, OTOH, makes them a reasonably substantial part of its annual conference. - D0r0th34

I still believe you're painting with too broad a brush--and if that's true, given LITA's bottom-up organization, it means that systems people are no longer joining (which is, I suppose, possible, depending on your definition of "systems people"). - Walt Crawford

I like ASIS&T, because I like the scholarly angle of LIS (because I taught / may again teach in GSLIS), and there are more practitioners going to ASIS&T. But not right for systems librarians, imho. I've heard other sys-lib types going to ACM, so I'd second @Fiona's suggestion there, esp. for HCI. I know folks who really like code4lib. - Stephanie_Thankful

ACM sends me join-up deals pretty regularly. Maybe I'll have to give 'em a whirl. - D0r0th34

The only association I'm a member of is the British Columbia Library Association, and I haven't yet seen any benefits of that membership. I'm not a member of the Canadian Library Association because I haven't seen anything in their subcommittees that was of any interest to me. I was actually thinking of becoming a member of the ALA, primarily because they have groups like LITA that... more... - cecily

Just now listening to T is for Training from Friday. Just got to the part where Maurice asks what you are looking for when thinking about joining an association. So.. Here is some of that (in no particular order) 1. Easy to join and communicate (not at just a conference twice a year) 2. Relatively inexpensive to join (under $400) 3. Something that would be recognizable by hiring... more... - JSNFLMNG

I would recommend joining your state library association and interacting with that group. Undoubtedly, you would add to their discussions and be a value member of that community. You'd also gain by networking with them. It shouldn't be too expensive. Then also join something that really fits your system librarian needs. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Scott Nicholson

Watching Fox news with folks near Tulsa. Story after story is about why people should be afraid. Dad has 4 loaded guns in different rooms.

November 24 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Okay...now that scares me! Four?! - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Jill Hurst-Wahl

Blog post: Revised Google Book Search Settlement from a Library Perspective - http://hurstassociates.blogspot.com/2009...

November 19 from Digitization 101 - Comment - Like - Share

Blogger is giving me an "OpenID Error", so I can't post this on your blog, but I would have said: Not <i>too</i> long, I hope. ;-) Perhaps "overly comprehensive" instead? - Peter Murray

Peter, Your comment "took" on the blog. BTW Long and comprehensive! And always well-done. Jill - Jill Hurst-Wahl from email

Jill Hurst-Wahl

Co-founder of Facebook, Chris Hughes, spoke in Syracuse last night - http://www.enetworking101.com/blog...

November 18 from eNetworking 101: The Blog - Comment - Like - Share

Very interesting to hear a 25 year old talk about his life at age 19 as being "back in the day"! - Jill Hurst-Wahl

LSW: cecily

Unhelpful library terminology....and GO.

November 16 - Comment - Like - Share

CT State Library, Stephen Francoeur, Junebug (aka Sarah Jill) and 3 other people liked this

iPac. - cecily

68 more comments

Opac. Periodicals. Circulation. Reference. - Laura H.

E-resources. - Jàson Puçkett

monograph - mita

acquisitions, collection development, serials, subject guide, article indexes & databases, ugh, ALL OF IT! - jambina

"institutional repository" - D0r0th34

ILL - Christina Pikas

metadata - D0r0th34

Thesaurus. Classification. - Pete

Dorothea, I actually shuddered when I read "institutional repository". - cecily

"pathfinder" - cecily

reserves - cecily

place a hold / on hold - Megan Fitzgibbons

I read some of these and think, "but that's what they are -- is it entirely the library's fault if users don't learn what things are called?" Yes, I know we have a problem with using jargon in a public setting, but are you going to start calling dictionaries the "thingy with all the words and stuff"? - ǎňňǎ

Anna, I'd say "thats what they are, because we named them that way", and then say that we need to be more thoughtful about natural language use before we name anything else, as a profession. - Jenica

Anna, any information architect -- or anyone who is a classification expert -- could work with the community being served to come up with a list of suggested terms that actually make sense, and then select the best of those. Calling something a "thingy with all the words and stuff" doesn't make sense. And also: what Jenica just said. - cecily

anna, I agree, mostly. But "opac" and all variants, and "cute" local names for the catalogue, like "Melvyl", all need to die. it's the catalogue. Calling it anything else hides it not just from naive users, but from experienced ones. - DJF

DJF that reminds me - when my undergraduate school finally got an electronic catalog, the brand name for it was OLLI. The terminal screen showed a large cheshire cat (in ASCII) with the letters OLLI where its face should be. OLLI Cat. Get it? I remember that because it's a spectacularly bad example of how cutesy library names don't work in the real world. - cecily

Cecily, I run the damn things and have to live with that name. - D0r0th34

One thing for the older terms like "Reference" is that it's impossible for me to objectively know if that's confusing jargon. I learned those as a wee thing from my school and public librarians, so they just make sense to me. So I tend to find just the "newer" things too jargony, like DDS, OPAC, etc. Except "monograph," which just drives me crazy. :) - Rachel Walden

festschrift (though this one isn't OUR fault) - D0r0th34

One word that drives me crazy for no good reason is "consortia." - s t e v e

I have some sympathy with Anna's position, but I also agree that local terms for catalogs, and acronyms of virtually all sorts, are pretty much meaningless to most users. But I also wonder how much of the acceptance/non-acceptance of library terminology is a generational thing. When I was learning to use libraries in elementary, middle, and high school, there was no online catalog. You... more... - Catherine Pellegrino

What we have with the branded OPAC is an empty brand. Before you can brand something, there has to be *something* in the brandee's mind to slap a brand *on*. Calling an empty space Melvyl doesn't fill it. :) As to Catherine's point, I think what we're standing on is a satisficing gap. It's ever so much easier to information-satisfice than it used to be. - D0r0th34

There's lots and lots of specialized terminology out there. Every sport has it, video games, card games, and board games have it, many novels develop their own terms... What matters, then, is a community's willingness to accept that the terminology is worth learning. (And the branded catalog thing is more complicated if you have a local catalog and also WorldCat, which is also a branded name.) - lris

I would add that while information-satisficing has become easier, the information landscape *inside the library* is more complex. Used to was, when you walked into the library the information that was available to you was basically the library's physical holdings (plus fillips like ILL that weren't used much). That is soooooooooo not the case any more, and it makes life as an info provider rather difficult. (What do we "collect"? What do we catalog? What do we "provide access to"?) - D0r0th34

I also object to all the database names. Everything should be in JSTOR. - s t e v e

Yeah, that's huge Dorothea. - lris

Translate from unhelpful to better understandable here? http://ff.im/bxtyN - Zen Master the Librarian

We all have examples for opaque terminology; I think most, if not all, of mine are listed above. How about we offer thoughts on translating into more transparent terms? - Zen Master the Librarian

"Special collections." :P - Laura Lou Who

"Stacks", "Bibliographic Instruction", "Library Instruction" - Junebug (aka Sarah Jill)

reference to mean something that the user can't take out, or items that don't circulate. or in my library LUO (library use only). - tara

Sarah June, would you please suggest alternatives for "library instruction" in the other thread (http://ff.im/bxtyN)? I'd love to have a better term to use with faculty. - Catherine Pellegrino

Let me think about this one Catherine. I'm struggling with it as well. - Junebug (aka Sarah Jill)

oooh! and citation management tool, and digital image collection. no idea what to call these in plain english. - tara

holdings - marthalib

This may be a local issue: "Lower Level" "Main Level" "Upper Level" (3 floor building, rooms 000 are downstairs, 100 is the floor everyone come in on, 200 is upsatirs) - also, nobody notices the stairs they pass on he way in and the eleveator is key-access only - Zen Master the Librarian

Aaron: that floor-numbering scheme seems reasonable to me. We have: Lower level, 1st floor, 1st mezzanine, 2nd floor, 2nd mezzanine. When they make me Director (ha!) the first thing I'm going to do is renumber the floors to 1, 2, 3, and 4. - Catherine Pellegrino

We have "main", "ground" and "lower ground". We also have "stack 1" through "stack 6". "main and "stack 3" are the same floor. but G and LG do not line up with any stack level. Oh, and S6 is the top floor (obviously, floors count up), but the call numbers go from the top down: "A" is on Stack 6, "Z" is on Stack 1. - DJF

But it could be worse, the Chemistry building next door has basement, lower ground, ground, 1, 2, etc. (all of B, G, LG, and 1 have direct access to the outside; it's built on the side of a hill) - DJF

Sigh. I actually love the term festschrift. And what do you call a hold if you don't use the term "hold"? I am with you all on most of the rest, though - laura x

I used to correct people when they asked for the "card catalog." I finally realized that they could give a crap about the form of the tool, they just wanted something to help them find materials. - Rochelle Rochelle

portal. - Marie is monkeying around

book truck. And what everyone else said. ;-) - Connie Crosby

Portal is a great game! - DJF

Oooh. "Holdings" is a good one, Martha. We have a links on our web page to "Subjects of Holdings" and "Formats of Holdings." I'm doing away with those during our redesign. - Laura Lou Who

Unique to my library: Sabio (this was the ORIGINAL catalog/database access deal in the 90s, which went away, but there are still signs in the building that indicate "Sabio Access"). Also, Aaron, Catherine and DJF - my FPOW had floors Lower, 2, 3, 3A, 4, 4A, 5, 5A, 6 and 6A - the main floors were all available from 2 of the elevators, but the A floors could only be reached with the 3rd elevator (or the stairs). Most circulating books were on the A floors, but not all circulating books were. - ÉllbeeÇee

"not on loan" for items not on loan. Personally I have no problems with the words, and have no alternative, but since moving to public libraries I get asked *waaaay* too often what it means. "Graphic Novel" is actually confusing I think. "Databases". Even "renew" confuses people - I find they more often say "extend" - again, maybe not libraryland's problem?? - Kathryn says love n peace

Kathryn, I'm not sure how to take "not on loan" - does that mean it's available for check out or that it doesn't circulate out of the building? :) - ÉllbeeÇee

Does this map top LUO (from way back above)? - Zen Master the Librarian

databases - ♫Geek in the 410♫

one more: federated search. sounds like a very small country that was part of the USSR. - tara

On the "library instruction" thing: I prefer "library research instruction" or just "research instruction" (at least to sell it to faculty; when they hear "research," it gives it more credence for many of them, I suspect). - Dana Longley

Just about anything that comes out of librarian's mouth sounds like it's really hard to do. - ɥsıuɐʎɹ

I also agree on the "databases" term. I prefer "search tools" and am making a push here to get everyone on board to start using that terminology instead (but it's an uphill battle). - Dana Longley

Pretty much every acronym out there. If you don't know what the letters stand for, you can't get even an initial clue as to what the thing being named is. - Katy S

"Federated search", "Openurl resolver" , "proxy" , . I had the impression that the library world went through a period where convention wisdom was you had to "brand" your services, so you ended up with libraries giving individual cutey names to services that were essentially the same because they all bought it from the same ILS vendor. - aarontay

yeah, we don't start with "proxy". we start with "off-campus access". - DJF

We tried renaming "e-reference" to "e-encyclopedias & dictionaries" on our website, and nobody figured it out. I've yet to find a library website with a better label, and I've been looking for three years. Either patrons know what reference means, or they think it means creating citations. - Kaijsa Calkins

Kaijsa, what to call electronic resources is one of the greatest mysteries of the world. Personally, I think that we shouldn't call them by what they are, but what you can do with them, but creating a suitable noun/verb pairing for these items has been quite a challenge for yours truly. - cecily

Really, we all just need to form a working group on terms and standardise the heck out of this. Not only do we have all this crazy jargon, we also expect library users/patrons/clients/customers (your choice) to learn different ones in every library they use. That's just crazy. - Fiona Bradley

In case anyone hasn't seen Jon Kupersmith's site, Library Terms That Users Understand, here's the link: http://www.jkup.net/terms.html - Stephen Francoeur

@kaijsa Online Encyclopedias / Online Dictionaries? (though, really, why would one buy a general dictionary anymore? define:[term] usually gives on-topic results (as well as occasional innapropriate, yet humourous, results) - Zen Master the Librarian

I'm going to just label everything on our site "CLICK HERE!!!" and "!#!#!#!# L@@K #!#!#!#!#!" - s t e v e

Books n Shit' Shit you can touch. Shit on a screen. - Pete

"reference" and "circulation" are pretty common yet a brand new person walking into a library has no idea what those mean. - Miriella

Sometimes "Information Desk" can be confusing if the library has a specific idea of what type of information is provided there. Some info desks don't handle reference questions. Some do. Although I generally like that more all purpose way of describing a service desk. And some of us only have one service point anymore. - Junebug (aka Sarah Jill)

I have always always loved the idea of a single desk for everything - I can't stand sending someone here, there, upstairs, downstairs and everywhere to get the few things they need. - Miriella

OPAC, ILS, ILL, libguide, finding aid - Jill Hurst-Wahl

MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS

DO ANYBODY NO WHY I HAD TO SEE TAYLOR SWIFT ... AGAIN?

November 4 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

MVB (Grinch of FF), Jason Huebel and Laura Lou Who liked this

No - Bren -- Not Grinchy from iPhone

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Karma? - MVB (Grinch of FF) from iPod

I'm gonna let you finish... - Jason Huebel

That's cold Mark - MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS

Because G*d loves you. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Beer. Nose. Pain. - MVB (Grinch of FF) from iPod

marthalib to marthalib's feed, LSW

Time to show Steve Lawson some love for his birthday tomorrow! Go!

November 3 - Comment - Like - Share

Laura Norvig, Jennifer McDaniel, mita and 10 other people liked this

This Clay Shirky quotation will always make me think of Steve: "We are used to a world where little things happen for love and big things happen for money... Now, though, we can do big things for love." This is what you help us do in LSW, Steve. Happy birthday, my friend. - marthalib

45 more comments

In the words of the great philosopher, "HIPY PAPY BTHUTHDTH THUTHDA BTHUTHDY." - Catherine Pellegrino

Hope you and your eyebrows have a wonderful birthday, Steve! - Laura Lou Who

It's steve's b-day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rock hard! - Sir Shuping

Happy birthday, my no-longer-imaginary friend. - laura x

"I wish we could do what they do in Katroo. They sure know how to say 'Happy Birthday to You!' In Katroo, every year, on the day you were born They start the day right in the bright early morn When the Birthday Honk-Honker hikes high up Mt. Zorn And lets loose a big blast on the big Birthday Horn. And the voice of the horn calls out loud as it plays: 'Wake up! For today is your Day of... more... - Katy S

I got to meet you! I thought *I* was supposed to be giving *you* the birthday presents, but... - D0r0th34

Steve, it's easy to debate library issues and forget about the individual people behind the concepts. I love the way you never lose sight of the real people, and I love it that you move beyond discussion to action. It is a privilege to call you a friend. Happy birthday. - lris

Congrats, Steve, on your forthcoming award! - Greg Schwartz

Happy happy birthday, Mr. Lawson! you are awesomesauce. <3 - holly

Happy Birthday to one of my very favorite merry pranksters in libraryland. You remind me what it means to be revolutionary. - Jason Griffey

Hope you have a great bday Steve. You have helped me see the world from a better place. You really have a unique perspective of life and of the value of libraries and librarians. - joe is... from iPod

Geez, way to make a guy cry. Daily, I am moved and thankful for the friends and community I have found online. Thanks, friends. - s t e v e

Well, and you are welcome. Truly you are a mensch amongst men. - Pete

Happy Birthday to da original Librarian Bomb! - Rochelle Rochelle from fftogo

Happy Birthday to my very good pal, my fellow carping nerdboy, Mr. Steve Lawson! Love you, man! - josh neff, geek at large

Happy Birthday Steve! whut we drankin' tonight? - MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS

happy to you! - Jenica

Happy birthday, Steve. - Betsy (bentley) Vera

Happy Birthday Steve! - ÉllbeeÇee

Is it a sweater vest day today, Steve? Happy Birthday! - marthalib

Happy birthday!! you are an inspiration with all you do in the LSW. *hugs* - ~Courtney F.

Any friend of the LSW is a friend of mine. Thanks for the inspiration and have a Happy Birthday! - Jen

Happy Birthday Steve! - JSNFLMNG

Happy friggin boithday from New Yawk City! - Stephen Francoeur

Happy birthday to Steve! Or as he is known in Canadia, Steve L'Awesome. - Jàson Puçkett

Happy Birthday, Steve!!!!! - Mary Carmen

Jason: In Canada, he's known as Steve Lawsoun. (also: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!) - Catherine Pellegrino

*snerk* - DJF

Here's to a fabulous birthday! Thank you, Steve, for all your LSW work. - Kirsten

Happy Birthday Steve!!!! - Abigail wants more eggnog

Many happy returns of the day, Mr. Lawson! - Laura H.

AWESOME LAWSON! happy birthday - Fiona Bradley

Have a great birthday, Steve. - Walt Crawford

happy happy Steve! - Stephanie_Thankful

*Happy birthday Mr President, mwah, happy birthday to YOU.* - Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock

Happy Birthday Steve! - tab thinks you're awesome

Wicked, I need a video of that, yo. And thanks again, all. - s t e v e

Steve is older and wiser. Like a fine Port. Happy Birthday Steve - ♫Geek in the 410♫

Happy Birthday, Steve! :) - directeur

hippo birdie two ewes! - Marie is monkeying around

Steve: Welcome to the world of Older and Budweiser! Is it me, or was that the name of an album from someone from the 80's? - Dana Longley

happy birthday, steve!! you are one awesome guy i hope to meet in person one of these days :) - Katie

Happy Birthday, Steve! - Jennifer McDaniel

Happy Birthday! - Admiral Anika

Hope you had a fantastical magical day with lots of smooches and birfday cards from the kids. - Laura Norvig

I missed Steve's B-Day :-( Hope it was magical! Steve, welcome to the next year of your life! - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Jill Hurst-Wahl

Allow me to join those whose heads are spinning over the SLA name change. I am not totally against a name change, but am not pleased how we've run head-long into this one. It would have been nice of the membership has concluded that a name change was needed, rather than the board and consultants doing it.

October 20 - Comment - Like - Share

Jennifer McDaniel, ωαřмaiden, MFA'd poet, Stephanie_Thankful and 8 other people liked this

Getting the bottom of the pyramid involved is essential. This has been too top down. Will there be an option to abstain in the vote? - Jill Hurst-Wahl

36 more comments

BTW I am one who agrees that saying you have an MLS isn't always needed. In fact, in my corporate life, my MLS was less important than my ability to do my job. But I don't totally shy away from the L-word. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

For those who believe in special libraries (libraries focused on special topics and services), will they spin off into another association? Will the Veranda Conference of 1909 be repeated in 2010 on a virtual veranda? - Jill Hurst-Wahl

I hope they don't spin off. I always thought that SLA's strength and what made it different is its diversity. How did this ever turn into a "we versus them" discussion? - yankeeincanada

Daniel, I don't think the Association healed after the name change vote in 2003. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

I think the "we versus them" has come from members feeling left out, as Jill noted, and confusion over the place of many members under this new model. I still worry if it's just me, but then several other academic and government librarians have expressed similar confusion, it makes me think perhaps either the research excluded/ignored that sector, or that extra care needs to be made to make them feel part of this new direction. - Kendra <3 Three Lions

Some of the split comes from the assumption that almost all members work in corporate / business based libraries. The SLAers I hang with are academics, govs and non profits for the most part. - joe is... from iPod

The survey text given to the 226 people (concerning the 3 choices) was quite telling. - joe is... from iPod

Yeah, that description blew my mind. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

You're right Jill - about a certain segment of the association. From many of the comments made over the last week, I'm left with the impression that most members now don't realize that a) there was a vote in 2003 and b) that the decision by the membership was to change the name. My point being that the board and consultants didn't decide - the members did - and it has taken this long to... more... - yankeeincanada

Oh sure, the question is whether *my* association will still exist. I am fine with a name change? Language has changed, and I am cool with that. This name (and process) is skewed against a good chunk of us, though. It's odd. If ultimately there is more dividing us than keeping us together, I have to honor that. It's just a bummer to feel so unwanted by an organization that I was actually excited about. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

Ok. What's going to be different? Who will be the face of SLA in five years if this passes? From what I'm reading you don't feel you will be. So, can I ask you to paint me the picture? - yankeeincanada

I would say that in 5 years, there will be fewer academic people and more corporate. It's not a house of horrors or anything. It's just disappointing to me, personally. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

I should maybe add that I'm in the SLA Academic/Chem/PAM divisions, and I've already ditched ALA for the most part because it's too big, broad and too public library oriented. And that I'm a (fairly) energetic new librarian who joined SLA because it seemed like there were similarly minded folks, and that it was a place where I could contribute to the profession. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

I'd be very happy ditching the SLA name. The "special libraries" moniker has been an albatross. I'm not sure I understand why some feel they won't be included with the proposed name? It's meant to be more inclusive rather than exclusive. I can still call myself a special librarian (although always hated that designation, to be honest). - Connie Crosby

Thanks for sharing Meg. If things continue as they are, the corporate sector is going to shrink - not grow. Corporate libraries are closing at an alarming rate - and what's worse - we don't often hear about them. Here in Toronto we've had two major research centers/corp libraries close this year - one in a bank and one in a consulting firm. And just like everyone else in SLA, they too... more... - yankeeincanada

Connie: it's not that "special librarian" suits me, and I'm fine with changing the name. It's that "strategic knowledge professional" suits me even less. Without getting into interpretations/semantics, at the very least it needs to be evident to my employer (and I'm tenure-track so this is potentially My Employer) that my professional development activities are relevant *to libraries*, especially as our travel money becomes more and more restricted. yankeeincanada: yep, totally. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

Thank you for clarifying, Meg. I guess it will take a bit of work at first (probably for many of us) to convey to our employers what this group is/does. You would still be able to point to the division names (which aren't changing I think) to show how they are aligned with what you are doing. Some of my past employers have also wanted to see descriptions of sessions that I would... more... - Connie Crosby

Meg, like ALA, could our division membership be the thing we mention? Like being a part of PLA (which is part of ALA), we could say that we're members in specific divisions which are part of this larger organization. Would that work? - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Daniel, like 2003, this may be that we - in general - agree that there should be a name change, and similar to 2003 can't agree on a name. (Yes, one of the names technically won, but there weren't enough people present for the vote to count.) In the vote, will there be a way for people to abstain or to say that they don't want a name change at all? (Or that they do want a name change, but not this one?) - Jill Hurst-Wahl

My impression is that even as heterogeneous as membership is, they could converge on a new name; if a less top down process were put in place. - carolh

Carol, how would a less top down process take place? I know I was part of a focus group of librarians and executives who worked on the alignment issues including the name, as were many in the association. I'm wondering what could have been done differently. - Connie Crosby

Connie, how many people from SLA were involved in the focus groups? You're the first person I've heard mention being involved in one. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Jill, agreed. There's agreement to change the name, I believe, but no agreement on what the name should be. And that debate has raged since 1909. Voting no would equal a vote to keep the same name. Abstain by not voting. There will be no option to say you want to change the name but don't like the current proposal. - yankeeincanada

Jill, I'm not sure--it is probably on the Alignment Project wiki. Fleishman-Hillard did extensive focus groups across the U.S. and Canada. There were about 40 of us in the room, half SLA members and half executives. We did things like press indicators to show our feelings while watching people on the screen, discuss the various words used to describe librarians, discuss the role of... more... - Connie Crosby

Jill - round tables and interviews with SLA members took place in: Denver, Louisville, Seattle, Savannah, and Washington. Fleishman-Hillard has been at every SLA conference and leadership summit since 2007 talking to members (and non-members, partners, and vendors). Focus groups took place in Washington, Vancouver, Seattle, Toronto, and Los Angeles. The timeline on the SLA site, if you... more... - yankeeincanada

Thanks for the link, Daniel/yankee! - Connie Crosby

@ConnieCrosby Do not have a perfect path at my fingertips. All I know is that the huge number of email reactions on both sci-tech div and pam div lists yielded several suggestions. At least one or two had a number of folks saying "yes, to that one". It is hard work to do this. But think it could pan out. - carolh

I've seen similar discussions elsewhere. Unfortunately completely different suggestions come up. We are not going to have all of us love the name we come up with, we just need a good number of us to find it acceptable. I guarantee whatever other name people in one group come up with, other groups will object to it. I must say, I do find the number and intensity of conversations this has generated to be impressive. I've never seen librarians talk so much to one another online in my life! - Connie Crosby

Saw a tweet from Yankee (http://twitter.com/yankeei...) that he is trying to figure out the alienation amongst the academic crowd. For example, the questions given to the 226 people in the naming survey said -- "In today's global economy, success depends on having access to the right information for the best business decisions.... They are uniquely qualified to... more... - joe is...

Joe: The name proposed is too corporate and there's a segment of academic librarians who feel they weren't represented in the research. That I understand - fully. I don't have an answer (yet) as to how that feeling of alienation can be changed - and that's part of what I am after. Is starting the research again an option? Yes. Feasible? Doubtful. More to the point - what I don't... more... - yankeeincanada

The value I and my employers get from an organization greatly depends on whether there are other people in it who are at least kinda like me (generally speaking, librarians). If an organization is not interested in keeping/attracting librarians (as evidenced by a name and a naming process that seem to exclude librarians, and also that this name has been promoted as being fundamental to,... more... - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

Meg, you bring up a good point. SLA has been trying to recruit more non-librarians. While this can be very beneficial, there are some who will be looking for a more pure "library" association. I also wonder what the conferences will be like with a broader mix of people. At first, we'll have non-librarians attending something that really is a library conference. Over time, will it be more of an info industry conference? - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Thanks yankeeincanada. What I get most out of SLA are the people in PAM, Sci-Tech, Eng Div, and the other sciency groups. Those tend to be academic centric, but it is great to hang with people who work for NASA, IBM watson research center, engineering/research firms, etc. for their varied experience and perspectives. What I was trying to say is that the text of the ppt... more... - joe is...

If SLA changes the name, will I drop my membership? Not right now. I've got too much invested. Long story. - joe is...

How can that alienation be changed? The word librarian needs to be used as much as the phrase "information professional". I can't remember the last time I heard Janice Lachance say the "L" word to the membership. - joe is...

I teach continuing ed courses, and have to take care not to say "librarian" because there are also library technicians, archivists, records managers, researchers, information managers, knowledge managers and information consultants who also take my classes. I say "information professionals" instead, to talk about us generally. I am trying to understand the need to be so exclusionary. - Connie Crosby

It seems that people are framing it either or. Joe made the point that "librarian" and "information professional" can peacefully co-exist, but they're not giving membership either option. SLA Headquarters is cutting the L out with "research". Fine. I'm OK with that. Giving us a jargon name that is even more obscure than SLA? I'm sorry, I can't get behind that. - Kendra <3 Three Lions

Jill Hurst-Wahl

ZoomIt - http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us...

November 4 from delicious - Comment - Like - Share

Cool features for zooming in, highlighting and more. From Microsoft subsidiary. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

LSW: Soup

I'm considering leaving my soul-destroying PhD program & have had my interest piqued by library science (maybe archives?). I was wondering if people would be kind enough to give me some information on what they do and how they like it. I'd also love to know what sort of skills you think are needed to make someone happy in the profession.

October 22 - Comment - Like - Share

Katy S and D0r0th34 liked this

S'up, Soup? I'm the Humanities Liaison Librarian at Colorado College, a small private liberal arts college in Colorado Springs. My job is probably relatively typical of such jobs: I teach library research sessions for humanities classes when invited; work the reference desk and help all comers; work one-on-one with students in my office on their projects; act as main library contact for humanities faculty; and projects and other stuff. I like it lots, most days. - s t e v e

47 more comments

Skills/experiences you need: let go of the PhD, and don't think of the library career as the kinda dinky thing you have settled on doing instead. It'll make you and everyone around you miserable. Be ready to dive into web/tech stuff to the most of your ability. If you haven't yet, get a job in a library or archives, or meaningful volunteer work. "Library science" and "working in a library" are pretty different things. And a cat. You need to have a cat. - s t e v e

Thanks for the response Steve. I think I'd probably like to work in a university or college (or a film studio, one of the programs I'm looking at is in film archives) so your reply is much appreciated. I already have the cat (two in fact) and I don't consider a library position settling in the least. One of the things driving me out of academia is the interminable penis fencing that... more... - Soup

Hi Soup. You might also try looking through some of these posts to the "day in the life" project that a bunch of librarians participated in both this year and last year. http://librarydayinthelife.pbworks.com/ Also, many of the members of this room also have blogs that might be helpful. I'm like Steve: work at a small liberal arts college doing reference, instruction, and a bunch of... more... - lris

Thank you for the link and information Iris! I really appreciate it! I was wondering...is the market for university or college librarians relatively open? Or impacted? - Soup

I'm probably not a great person to ask since I haven't been watching job ads in the last few years. My impression is that it's not "open," and that getting experience (by volunteering or getting internships and such) is crucial, but that there are jobs available. - lris

Hey Soup. I work in a big honkin university library and can say the answer depends a lot on what the budget situation is at that campus and what budget the position is on (state, contract or other funding). We had a brutal summer of layoffs on state budgets here, and many of the 'entry level' librarian positions here require 3 years of post-library degree experience (?) regardless of what other degree(s) you have. Most universities post jobs on their websites so you can see what specs are noted. - Nikki D.

Thanks Nikki! The university I currently attend just went through a major cull as well, despite the development and near completion of a brand new library facility. I wouldn't be able, however, to begin my studies until the Fall and I imagine I would not finish them for 1-2 years, so hopefully the budget horror would improve in most places. Still, something to think about. Hmm. - Soup

Hi, Soup! I'm the Head of Special Collections (university archives and Baptist collections) at a private liberal arts college in Georgia. I have an MLS and spent six years as librarian/archivist at a state music museum, three as a music archivist in a state research university, and am wrapping up my third year at my current job. I love what I do and would be happy to talk to you about it. You can see my infrequent blog postings at http://superstarchivist.blogspot.com/. :) - Laura Lou Who

Hi, Soup. I'm the Digital Repository Librarian for the University of Wisconsin. I run a digital archive, working with faculty and students to store their digital materials safely so that they'll be usable in the long term. The academic-librarian job market is generally pretty crowded. You will help yourself if you have technical skills, or if your graduate work is in a scientific discipline; also, if you have a subject master's degree, that is a plus for many libraries. - D0r0th34

Just as an aside, you'll find that quite a lot of us have "I was getting my PhD and then decided to go to library school instead" as part of our educational histories. You'd have a lot of company. :-) - lris

(Heh. Yes. I resemble that remark myself.) - D0r0th34

Oh! And don't subscribe to any email lists that include "new librarian" in the title. They will destroy your soul. Join the LSW instead. (Ok, my advice is getting sillier and sillier... I should probably get back to being actually helpful.) :-) - lris

Soup! Hello! I'm a newish, academic librarian at a large teaching (not research) university in MN that largely serves non-traditional students. I think what everyone is saying is right on the money, so I'll add a couple bits of advice. If you are really interested in library or archives work, I strongly suggest you try to get a job in a library or archives, either now or while you are... more... - marthalib

Also, listen carefully to everything Iris says. She is always correct. ALWAYS. - marthalib

Awww. (I'll pay you later, Martha.) - lris

I left a soul-sucking PhD program for the MLS & librarianship & have never looked back, Soup. I spent a year and a half as a reference and instruction librarian, and am currently associate head of Access & Delivery Services at the NCSU Libraries. Ditto on everyone - getting a job in the field - even if it means you have to work while getting your MLS, gives you an enormous headstart on the job market. Best of luck finding happiness! - ωαřмaiden, MFA'd poet

Do you own any sweater vests, Soup? Perhaps a bow tie? - marthalib

Hi Soup - I'm currently a reference librarian and the coordinator of instruction at a small Catholic women's college in Indiana. I didn't leave a soul-sucking Ph.D. program to go into librarianship; rather, I was foolish enough to stick it out and get three additional, useless, letters after my name. Everything that everyone has written here is excellent advice, so I'm just chiming in... more... - Catherine Pellegrino

I work at a teeny tiny branch of a public library system in Wyoming that doubles as a library for a K-12 school, but in some respects, I do similar things to many of the other people who've posted here--teach classes, do technology training, etc. I also buy most of our books, keep statistics, write reports, read a lot about the profession, etc. Not, I suspect, what you have in mind, but... more... - laura x

Oh yeah - if you're currently still in that SSPhDP, get a job at your university library. Even if it's just shelving books. That was my gateway drug. (Also how I learned the LC classification system.) - Catherine Pellegrino

Oh, hey, and maybe someone who is feeling more articulate than I could say something about implementing change and leading change that doesn't sound utterly trite. Thnx. - marthalib

Hi Soup I've just left a position as Emerging Technologies Specialist at a medium sized university in Western Australia, which was a librarian's position. I kept on top of trends in information seeking , research and learning that used online tools.I gave policy advice and hands on sessions on things like blogging, RSS, digital storytelling, website usability, wikis, Second Life and social networking. I configured cool tools like library toolbars, - Kathryn says love n peace from iPhone

, a WordPressMU blogging platform for the whole library, the university's Second Life Island. Ultimately I left bcs I grew very cynical about the ability of academic libraries and universities to really understand the rich, playful, collaborative possibilities for learning that new technology offers...I saw them giving lip service to change while perpetuating a very rigid, paternalistic view of education. For me, public libraries that learn to create communiy cohesion are bound to survive longer than... - Kathryn says love n peace from iPhone

Academic libraries that just let themselves become subscription buyers and book storers without teaching or understanding new literacies that students will need. (Sorry -rant off....) You will need the ability to understand how information can connect with information and people, how to make human connections with users to get the best information for them and great clarity to ensure that your energy is focussed on future needs not replicating what we did in the past. - Kathryn says love n peace from iPhone

*hands Ms GrumpyPants a chocolate* - marthalib

Thank you Martha. And apologies for the strange and puzzling sentence that was in my first comment - an old Tweet that I accidentally pasted into the text without knowing...not only did I look like I was ranting but like I was ranting gibberish... - Kathryn says love n peace

(Hey, should we tell Soup that the LSW is more of a Dada collective than an actual professional organization? Or is this our chance to get someone all the way through a degree program while thinking this is normal?) - s t e v e

(Hush Steve! Soup might hear you.) - lris

People still don't know that LSW = Librarian Situationist Wishbomb?! - Pete

Wow! So many responses! I thank you all for your help. I'm really interested in your individual experiences, thank you so much for sharing them! I'm relieved to know other people here left their PhDs as well. Attempting to discuss such a route with the people I currently work with (who are all on the PhD track) usually results in horrified stares (or requests for my office space, hmph!)... more... - Soup

I went to the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee (where I had also attended as a Masters/PhD student in literary studies...). Josh Neff (the creator of this room) was one of my classmates there, too. - lris

I was at St. John's University a few years ago. I've heard the program has changed a lot since I was there. My sister finished the one at Indiana University two years ago and I think she had a lot more course options and more interesting options. - Abigail wants more eggnog

University of Wisconsin at Madison class of 2005. I've taught a couple of semesters there, too. There are a couple-three clunker professors to avoid, but honestly, the program has improved a LOT even in the few years since I graduated. (No, I am not claiming any credit for that.) For future academic librarians, the program is serviceable, but don't slide through -- push yourself, because your advisor may not push you. - D0r0th34

What Dorothea says is true of Milwaukee as well. (I graduated in 2005, too. I didn't realize we graduated at the same time, Dorothea.) - lris

I enjoyed my program at the U of TN, Knoxville (class of 2004) - but because of budget cuts, as of this spring, all classes will be online. The face-to-face work made a difference for me. I have a friend who just finished at UIUC and enjoyed their program. I work at the U of AZ, which also has a program, but I don't know much about their program, since I haven't worked closely with any of the students or faculty. - ÉllbeeÇee

For intellectual rigor, the best program I know is probably that at Illinois. (The flip-side is that the courses tend not to be as immediately practical.) I'll be teaching for their online program this spring, and in all honesty I'm a little intimidated by the prospect! I am *not* a theoretician -- I learn by doing, and I teach what I know how to do. - D0r0th34

Hi, I'm class of '83 Univ. of M (MLS) and now teaching at SU. In between I've been a corporate librarian and consulting (still consulting actually). The variety of what you can do with an MLS is amazing - helping to connect people to vital information & helping them build knowledge. BTW SU's program can be done online, like several others. One of a growing group of iSchools. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Thank you Jill (and, again, everyone else!) for the information. Your comment about iSchools has me wondering...are on-line programs as reputable as more traditional programs? I've noticed in my research that there are quite a few of them around. Will I have trouble competing with people who have a degree from a traditional program if I hold an iSchool program? - Soup

Keep in mind iSchool usually means Information School, not internet-based :) That said, I am a distance learning graduate of the University of North Texas' (Dec 2007) program on the health informatics track. Not to brag, but as a result of my UNT internship (at a university where an iSchool is) I started as a part time temporary position that then turned to a full time regular librarian... more... - Nikki D.

Nobody will hassle you over an online program as long as it's ALA-accredited. In fact, since just about everybody who runs an online program also runs a f2f one, nobody even has to know you did yours online. ;) I will warn you against UW-Madison's online degree at this point in time; they're just starting it, and I don't know that it's wise to guinea-pig such a thing. (I say this as one who may end up teaching in it, so...) - D0r0th34

My MLIS was through University of South Carolina distance education, and if anything it gave me an added selling point when interviewing, that I could relate to distance education students. And like D0r0th34 says all that really matters is that it's ALA accredited. I'd go even further to say that it really doesn't matter which one you get it from. Just find a program that's going to meet your needs - Sir Shuping

Thanks for the added information guys. I'm getting quite excited! :D - Soup

Systems, Electronic Resources & Web Librarian at Shippensburg U of PA (State University, State pseudo-funded, "Public" Carnegie Masters classification) -- the big take away of all this I'd like to point out *with the possible exception of 2 or 3 "top" library schools, it doesn't matter which school *as long as it is accredited* (so, go as cheaply as you can to get what you want... more... - Zen Master the Librarian

I second Aaron. Do not spend ONE RED CENT more than you absolutely must. - D0r0th34

Soup, when I interviewed for my current job (at GSU library in Atlanta), my dean was very interested in my experiences as an online distance ed student. She said she thinks online degrees are more valuable in some ways because they demonstrate the ability to function as an independent learner. (Of course, she has a PhD in instructional technology.) There are some very highly ranked... more... - Jàson Puçkett

Thanks Aaron, D0r0th34, and Jason (and again, as always, everyone else). Some of the programs I'm looking at are on the higher end of the cost scale. Given I'm already rather shockingly in debt from previous student loans I'm dead pleased that I can economize and not hurt my job options. I am SO GLAD I decide to make some inquiries here. You all are giving me such hope and much-needed advice! I truly do appreciate it. - Soup

Actually a lot of Americans study at CSU in Australia online because it can work out cheaper. Not a fan of their programme but creative options like this are possible too (Australian masters are ALA accredited by a reciprocal arrangment) - Fiona Bradley from iPod

I love my job at a small lib arts college. We have too much to do, but it's mostly rewarding and appreciated. There's a lot of room for creativity and curiosity. A lot depends on the kind of library/institution you end up at. I'm amazed at the crappy, soul-destroyingly hierarchical and just plain stupid organizations at many academic libraries. We had enough critical mass at my small... more... - barbara fister

T Is For Training

T is for Training 32: We Are Tech Junkies - http://tisfortraining.wordpress.com/2009...

October 23 from T is for Training - Comment - Like - Share

And the biggest tech junkie among us is Lori! Who knew?! - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Walt Crawford

Here's an honest question, one also asked in a Walt at Random post right about now: Do you think it’s inappropriate or undesirable for your FriendFeed comments to be used in secondary discussions (e.g., in Cites & Insights) in the same way your blog posts and comments might be?

October 22 - Comment - Like - Share

suelibrarian, Sir Shuping, Kenton and Mike Nencetti liked this

I assume that someone could use them. Having said that, I come from a field that takes the ethics of using other people's writing seriously. I would go through IRB if I were doing an academic study of those comments, but if I were using them as a reference, I wouldn't. There is a good chance I'd let the person know I'm using comment(s). - Katy S

33 more comments

Katy: I guess I'm really asking "Would you prefer..." rather than whether it's ethical or legal. - Walt Crawford

I assume that they could be used - but I would also like to be aware the the comment might be used (particularly if attribution is going to be given) with the option to request that it not be - but even then knowing that I can say no, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be used anyway. - ÉllbeeÇee

I'd like to know, but I also know that I can't control whether someone uses it or not so I don't fret about it. Sure, I prefer it, but I don't necessarily expect it. - Katy S

Some people have to approve your following them, and I find it less appropriate to use comments from those individuals elsewhere without explicit permission. - Rachel Walden

I think I would just really like notification that you had used them. I could then create my own ff post or blog detailing how I felt about you using them ;) - JSNFLMNG

Like Rachel says, people with locked accounts have an expectation of privacy and you should probably ask. People with open accounts (like me) should expect their contributions to be as public as a blog or Twitter. That being said, people here do seem less guarded than those other platforms so you might want to ask before quoting something particularly outrageous. - John Dupuis

I have used group FriendFeed posts and group tweets for the groups I'm admin for on a poster without asking, I see it the same as web archives for a listserv. I'd hesitate drilling down to the personal FriendFeed account level though. - Nikki D.

I feel like the context matters, and quoting the comments elsewhere strips away that context and so it's good to ask permission. I recently asked someone if it was okay to quote her blog comment in a more formal newsletter piece. I probably wouldn't quote something someone says in an unguarded moment at the bar while presenting them with a professional award, either, even though the first took place at least semi-publicly. - Rachel Walden

I'm sorry. Maybe I'm being insensitive or clueless here, but I'm not sure I get why someone would expect notification before a comment they made in a public space is quoted or discussed elsewhere. If I publish a book or an article, do I expect that someone asks permission before they quote a piece of what I said? Is it a matter of proportion? If someone quotes a paragraph from my... more... - Stephen Francoeur

As above, ask first for private feeds but public feeds are public property. The usual courtesies apply -- ask before quoting someone saying "Powerful Person X is a douchebag", etc -- but, as always, one should probably rely more upon discretion than upon those courtesies for protection from oneself... - Bill Hooker

Stephen, I don't necessarily expect it, but I think asking is a polite and reasonable thing to do. (and I agree with what Bill says above) - Rachel Walden

(I say that as one whose public comments have, on more than one occasion, come back to bite me on the ass.) - Bill Hooker

I'd agree that it is polite, but part of me wonders what happens if the person says no. Where does fair use fit in to this discussion. Or does it (seriously, I don't know if it does). - Stephen Francoeur

I suppose Bill's points about discretion being part of the equation make some sense. If someone said something outrageous or provocative, I can see some reason why you might want to contact the author of those comments...maybe. (*mulling it all over in my head now*) - Stephen Francoeur

Were Michael Gorman to post a snarky comment here in FriendFeed, and I want to mention it in a blog post or a tweet or a new FriendFeed thread, should I contact him first? - Stephen Francoeur

I'm with Bill on this one. If it's a public discussion, it's pretty much up for grabs. - Mary Beth Sancomb Moran

I'm disappearing to work on But Still They Blog, but will check back later, and so far find this VERY interesting...particularly since, frankly, for Cites & Insights "ask before you quote"/"notify if you use" would have the effect of shutting down the publication; the rewards, particularly in 2010, wouldn't justify all the extra effort. So, well, I'll keep seeing what folks have to say. (I'd like to think I do use *some* discretion, except when someone's gone to exceptional efforts to be a jerk.) - Walt Crawford

It's a public forum, expect to be quoted, don't expect to be notified. - Jeff Scott

It is difficult to remember who has a public feed versus a private feeds. For example, you probably subscribe to Dorothea, and she has a private feed (I think). If you can see her comments and quote her, or point to her discussion thread, it may be difficult for other people to see her comment, since the whole world won't be able to see the context. - joe is...

yes, I do have a private feed, because I've already gotten myself in work trouble over social media and am not interested in having that happen again. - D0r0th34

Hmm. But there's a difference between Dorothea's actual posts (which are private) and her comments on other posts (which, I would assume, are as public as those people's feeds are, right?) [In other words: did those of you who don't subscribe to Dorothea see her comment immediately preceding this one?] - Walt Crawford

Yes, Walt, there is that difference, and I try to remain aware of it. - D0r0th34

I think you do. I think it's up to me (and others who may use material) to pay more attention. Actually, given the tenor of the discussion so far, I'm inclined to think I *should* normally treat FF discussions as ephemera, not using them in C&I unless they've been explicitly included in blog discussions. Which was really the guidance I was looking for. "Normally" is a key word here. - Walt Crawford

Hmm. For curiosity-satisfying purposes, I just blocked a couple of people who said "public feed, up for grabs," and I no longer see their comments in this thread, so not sure about how that works, exactly. Walt, yours is public, isn't it? - Rachel Walden

Yes, my feed is public. - Walt Crawford

Blocking, which I've only done once or twice, is the nukular option: You don't see ANYTHING from that person. (Yes, I know how to spell nuclear. Even how to pronounce it.) - Walt Crawford

Ah, okay. Thought maybe I would still see them in discussion, just not their own posts. - Rachel Walden

See also: http://ff.im/3m7q1 - s t e v e

Hm. I'd like the comment linked to the broader discussion so nothing's taken too far out of context, but I figure if I put it on the 'net, folks will use it as they want (though I do like to be notified). - ωαřмaiden, MFA'd poet

Good point from TAw -- linking should be de rigueur when quoting from an online source: it provides original context for the quote and credibility for the person doing the quoting. I might *appreciate* notification after or a request before being quoted from a public comment, but I certainly don't *expect* it. The only objection I might have is to being taken out of context, which linking to the source would render moot. - Bill Hooker

I think the tricky part is getting the attribution correct, since some people like to use aliases that fit their current mood. I do think that text here is like microblogging, and tweets do get quoted around without explicit permission. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

For myself, anything I post <strike>publicly</strike> <strike>publically</strike> in public is done with the awareness that it might be quoted, spread far and wide, and/or get tattle-taled to a manager. If I don't want it spreading then I don't say it. --Linking is preferred to provide context. For attribution, I'd go with the username or, if I had time to investigate, look for a preferred name on something more formal like a blog. - Deborah Fitchett

Great stuff. What I'm most likely to do in the future--recognizing that C&I is pretty much unique in the library pantheon of formal, informal & semi-formal pubs--is to feel free to discuss the nature, tenor and opinions within a FF thread, if it's relevant to something else I'm discussing (e.g., comments on a blog post where the post also generated an FF thread), but--generally--not direct quotations. - Walt Crawford

Two notes: C&I is not online; it's "print over the web"--and "not direct quotations" also means "not attributing stuff to names individuals." With some exceptions, to be sure. Anyway, this has been *very* helpful. - Walt Crawford

Internet's Tad

One of these days I should go ahead and get my passport. I might want to go to Vancouver sometime.

October 22 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

rowlikeagirl, Roberto Bonini, Kol Tregaskes and 5 other people liked this

You don't have a passport? - Admiral Anika

11 more comments

That would be a good thing. Vancouver is awesome! - CW™

Be sure to get an RFID-blocking case too ;) - LogEx

I'm from Mississippi Anika. (my omni-excuse) - Internet's Tad

Hmmmm, I'm not buying it though. :) - Admiral Anika

Canada is awesome! You need to visit it. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

since when do we need a passport to go to canada? - chaz2b

My application has been sitting on my desk for like a year. - Derrick

The Bush Administration was all the encouragement I needed to get my passport renewed. - Spidra Webster

I have my application all filled out. I'll probably go turn it in and take my photos tomorrow. I've had to turn down some jobs in Mexico and Canada since I started working for my company. It's time to remedy that. - ha3rvey, not a sweetheart

Chazz since Dubya more security theatre -- all my lfe in MN only tok a drivers license and barely that to drive across the border then suddenly the longest undefended border in the world was the friggin berlin wall... - WarLord

My boss asked why I didn't have one yet, and I told him it's because I keep getting sent out of town to work. If I had some time here at home, I could actually turn in the application. - ha3rvey, not a sweetheart

Another reason not to put things off is that application fees increase over time. - Spidra Webster

T Is For Training

For the 32nd episode of T is for Training tomorrow at 2 eastern - http://tisfortraining.wordpress.com/2009...

October 22 from T is for Training - Comment - Like - Share

I have no ideas on show topics. Care to share what you would like to talk about? Are you coming to the show tomorrow at 2pm eastern? - ♫Geek in the 410♫

I'd love to know how people balance their social media interactions with their workload. I never seem to be able to keep up with the social media side - I have on my lists of things to do to find ways to streamline time on FB, Twitter, Friendfeed, RSS etc. I must be missing something because I just can't keep up with it yet I see others steadily contribute on all platforms. Any tips or links that would help would be great. I plan on being there, but hope it's not just me and Maurice (no offense). - Stephanie Zimmerman

Twitter, Stephanie. The answer is Twitter. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

David Rothman (☤)

I got my 2009 H1N1 live, attenuated (nasal spray) vaccine today. If you have questions about the 'flu or the vaccine (and you're not one of the many health info professionals reading this), let me know. I'll point you towards authoritative information, not media hysteria. (Ariela- you're the public health expert among the people I know. Any...

October 22 from Facebook - Comment - Like - Share

Spidra Webster liked this

but I love media hysteria! Can't I have just a little? - Meredith

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Hell, David, you could point us to places where you can *find* the H1N1 vaccine. (For my wife; I'm old enough and with few enough health problems that I'm not on the candidate list.) Other than Kaiser--which we're no longer members of--I don't know of anywhere that has it. (Oddly, for seasonal flu, the stores have vaccine but the health centers mostly don't--we got our shots at Target.) - Walt Crawford

Walt, there's a locator at http://flu.gov/ that may help. - Rachel Walden

Walt- Try this: http://flu.gov/individ... Each state, I believe, is handling distribution as it sees best. People in a large city or metro area may find this info fastest by contacting the city/metro Health Dept (or checking its Web site). If you don't live in a largeish city, check with your state Dept of Health (or its Web site). - David Rothman (☤)

(Okay, Rachel beat me to that by seconds, but I gave Walt the actual link. :p ) - David Rothman (☤)

David, don't you know perfect is the enemy of good? :P - Rachel Walden

Sure, but EXCELLENCE isn't. :p - David Rothman (☤)

As expected: "Maybe by the end of October." - Walt Crawford

Or you could all come to LSE and just get h1n1 (bacon fever/hamthrax/hiney flu)-- it's going through the schools in droves.... - Abigail wants more eggnog

Here, in Alachua county, there is not a single clinic listed distributing the vaccine -- and we have a huge university and a teaching hospital??!! I know there are doses available at the V.A., but clearly the public is not invited. However, go 30 miles north or south, and there are 1/2 dozen places where the vaccine can be had (this is according the the website linked above by David Rothman). Grrr. - Mickey Schafer

Glad to see you all get vaccinated, since I can't. Allergic to eggs and don't want to take any chances. I haven't had a flu vaccine since the first swine flu shot in 1975. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Herd immunity protects Jill! (Jill, make sure to guilt all your co-workers into getting vaccinated for your sake) :) - David Rothman (☤)

It sucks that it's so hard to find. We're not going to visit family for Thanksgiving (tho we spent a fortune on plane tickets already) because Reed will not have gotten inoculated in time unless he gets the first shot like today. - Meredith

joe is...

Hey @cpikas and @desertlibrarian Did you see this concerning the SLA name? http://link.ixs1.net/s... #slaname #sla

October 21 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Joe, thanks. I hadn't seen this. - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Luke Rosenberger

a more neutral place 4 #slaname discussion on facebook by fans & non-fans alike: sla facebook group discussion board http://www.facebook.com/topic...

October 19 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Would be interested to hear more SLAers voice their opinion about the new name.... - Jill Hurst-Wahl

Jill Hurst-Wahl › Comments