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Jim Connolly › Comments

Louis Gray
Beware of the wily #seesmic raccoon. It has invaded my home and made its imprint on my twins.
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We're all doomed! Run for your life. - Matt Ruiz
Now he looks life a lot of fun. Wonderful and thanks for sharing. - Robert Mendez
this is huge!!!! - Loic Le Meur
Louis, how many kids do you have and what ages? I will get you tshirts! - Loic Le Meur
Excellent :) - Jean-François Amadei
Loic, we just have the two one-year-old twins. They are unrepentant and always accept schwag. - Louis Gray
great thanks Louis - Loic Le Meur
btw Louis, did you know Loic is Louis in "Breton"? We actually have the same first name - Loic Le Meur
Now I know. I knew France was a big fan of Louis. We were "elected" king more than a dozen times, no? - Louis Gray
Louis, does Loic call you Loo-ey? - Derrick
Derrick, I haven't noticed. Yesterday, when I abruptly and rudely called for him to come on stage to pose with Iain of TweetDeck and Nick of TweetMeme, he said "anything for Louis" and I believe I heard an "s". - Louis Gray
I used the "s" to make it sound english but yeah, no s pronounced in french - Loic Le Meur
I start my French classes in September for my trip next year. I wonder if Loic can tutor me. Louis, you're my "in". Make it happen! - Derrick
Cute as ever. - Anne Bouey
My suitcase is actually full of that! :D - shinchi
... and my son's name is Lewis - Though as his mum and me both lived in France, that's not too surprising. - Jim Connolly
5 year bumpage. - Louis Gray
Bret Taylor
You can now get a daily or weekly email digest for anybody's feed on FriendFeed. You'll get a daily or weekly email with the most popular posts from that person's feed. To get the email, click the "Email/IM" link at the top of anyone's feed, and select the "Best of day" or "Best of week" email option.
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You can see all of your email settings at http://friendfeed.com/setting... - Bret Taylor
Thanks Bret! :) - Matt Ruiz
Thanks to Kevin for doing a great design for what turned out to be a more complex set of UI options than we had originally anticipated, and thanks to Tudor for implementing the email backend. - Bret Taylor
Great! Thanks! Love FF! - Scott Monaco
I now get the FriendFeed Feedback posts as a Best of Day email so it doesn't fill up my feed, but I don't miss feedback. I also set up a "Best of Day" email for my "Technology people" friend list so I get a pretty good overview of tech news every day via email. - Bret Taylor
This is a really cool idea Bret, I wish you can make that an RSS feed option as well. I'd be much more likely to read summaries in RSS than in email. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Lovely. Thanks guys. - Mitchell Tsai
Casey: Thanks for the tip. What's the 7 before the "?" mean in the URL? The number of likes or replies needed to be included? - manielse (Mark Nielsen)
this is killer, the random influx of email during the day was kinda getting fail-ish. I love the daily digest. - Drew Lucas
Very cool! Any way to get archives of previous months? (especially helpful for those of us who leave the internet for weeks at a time...) - Mitchell Tsai
WOW. that's really helpful! - K.D.
Looks like a great addition for those who are not embedded on the site. Nice intro. - Louis Gray
Cool! - Josh Haley
Ahsan: it is somewhat random right now when the emails are sent, but we built in the backend capability to control what time they are sent, and we plan on exposing that control to users in the future. Right now, it is kind of random - sorry! - Bret Taylor
Cool! can i get a daily or weekly email digest for the "Saved searches"? - 0M0M from email
This will be incredibly useful. Thanks to all involved in the design and execution. - Kathy Fitch
Nice addition! - Michael Fidler
But what exactly is "Best"? Is it anything that has a certain number of likes/comments? - Laura Norvig
@Bret LOL THAT WAS MY PROJECT! I will release it tomorrow. But you've also did it and killed my friendfeed application **sigh** But mine has multi-reporting weekly-daily-monthly at the same time and adjustable entry count! - Alp
@Bret please consolidate me or I won't code new apps with you api! :-) - Alp
Alp: we were not trying to withhold data. Later today the documentation will be updated to reflect the ability to obtain "Best of" for users. The feed id will be USERNAME/summary/N (similar to "Best of" for lists) - Benjamin Golub
Hi Ben, that is pretty funny, I tried that URL earlier today to see if it has been secretly released :) - Paul Kinlan
Bret: While Twitter struggle to keep their fail whale under control, you guys are developing stuff like this. Amazing - Thanks! - Jim Connolly
awesome feature, this will be highly useful for my corporate group ideas / content sharing; projects, etc.... THANK YOU :) - Susan Beebe
Great work. I especially like that it works on lists too. - Meryn Stol
my inbox might say different, but I like that :-) - Dobromir Hadzhiev
Wow, this is really neat! And it links into the idea I expressed earlier, re: reducing signup friction / enabling limited guest privileges. Imagine if I could embed one of my FF rooms on my personal web site, and enable people to subscribe to that feed by e-mail with just a couple of clicks... rather than saying "you can get e-mail notifications but you have to sign up for Friendfeed first." "sign up" -- though admirably lightweight on FF -- is still a huge barrier. - Adam Lasnik
is there a love button cause I dont like this option I LOVE this option..great work guys - (jeff)isageek
Three options I would like (1) Can I select "top 100" instead of "top 30"? (2) Could I select both "best of day" and "best of week"? (3) How about older timeperiods? I'd love to get an e-mail with stuff from last week or Mar 2009? Start & end dates? Anything to help me read FriendFeed off-line would be great since I spend long periods off-line at festivals (especially during summer time) or overseas. - Awesome job guys! - Mitchell Tsai
So this works on groups too, cool! But we still cannot see Best of for groups on the site on friends lists. :-( I have several friends lists that include just groups and when I select to view the best of the page it's empty (even though if I got to the individual best of for those groups there are entries there). - Kol Tregaskes
does anyone know of a web service that can do this? (I'm thinking weekly email updates of my favorite feeds/people) I don't think there's anything like friendfeed .. - Franc, a rememberer
That's a cool feature - Xitong Liu
Emails no longer get sent except for Subscriptions. The last non-sub email I recieved was July 15th, 2011. - NOT THE CRICKET
I still get them. - AJ Batac
I get these every day. - Me
i get it - solncee
I still get it - AJ Batac
*jealous* I no longer get anything but subscription emails. - Bruce Lewis
Following US Politics that way ever since and the emails always went through: so happy this never went off course and kept a valuable record of these threads. - Zu from AOD
unutmadık :) - alperyz
Paul Buchheit
Vanity auto-complete is the new vanity search.
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No "paul buchheit friendfeed"? - Spidra Webster
Maybe if everyone does that search we can change results! - Paul Buchheit
Let's roll, people! - Spidra Webster
No "Paul Buchheit the friendly face of Facebook"? (Just kiddin!!) - Jim Connolly
I'm on it. - Michael R. Bernstein
How does one Depaul? - Johnny
No good for me. Google doesn't turn up any suggestions besides my name on its own. - Chris Charabaruk
Got the same results as Paul. Not like Michael R. Bernstein. - Zu from AOD
No "Paul Buchheit nude"? - Rob H. from FreshFeed
I hope not. - Paul Buchheit
Paul, what were you searching for? Ideas for whatever? - Eric Borisch
At least the first suggestion for "ruchira" is "ruchira datta", but it doesn't suggest anything further beyond that. - Ruchira S. Datta
++Spidra - Ruchira S. Datta
no auto complete for me. A related search, however, shows up as "laura norvig floor wax dessert topping" - Laura Norvig
Me neither. I'm auto completeless. - Eric - For You Wack MCs!
ha, I never noticed before that one of Paul's auto completes is "net worth". Inquiring minds want to know, I guess. - Laura Norvig
Be worried when you get "paul buchheit rule 34" - Mo Kargas
Awesome! - Ruchira S. Datta
Leo Laporte
Live now: Windows Weekly 155 with Paul Thurrott. http://live.twit.tv Discuss here....
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nice haircut Paul --- looks great - Christopher Gambol
ok... that sounded weird, sorry! [trust me, i'm normal] - Christopher Gambol
Tease: On the eve of the Kin release, Paul moans about smartphone pricing, an Office 2010 update, and what to expect with IE9. - Leo Laporte
Microsoft Kin phones arrive They look OK, but the pricing is horrible and could impact sales - Leo Laporte
Office 2010: A quick look at what's happening Office 2010 suites: Upgrade immediately if you're on Office 2003 or use Outlook Office Web Apps: No replacement for Office unless you have minimal needs and can handle performance issues Office Mobile 2010: No big changes, more touch-friendly, a couple of Outlook upgrades Overall: As always, Office is most impressive when you combine two or more of the products - Leo Laporte
Stock market plunge - Check the news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1... PLUS General election in UK - Markets hate uncertainty ;) - Jim Connolly
IE 9 Platform Preview 2 Again, just for developers with no hint of final UI But a revisiting of Microsoft's "same markup" ideas around web standards - which is the right approach Related: Though IE 8 is the most popular browser version, IE usage overall is dropping every month - but the big beneficiary is Chrome, not Firefox - Leo Laporte
++ Looks like stock market was a computer glitch!! ++ Apple went from 250 to 205 and back to 245 in a minute! - Jim Connolly
Related: Microsoft's take on the Flash debate H.264 is the future yes, but we support Flash too of course - Leo Laporte
havein a good show leo hi from ga - daveccorey
Revisiting the Windows copy and paste issue I think this is actually a bug. Or I'm going insane. You decide. - Leo Laporte
Windows 7 Feature of the Week: Windows XP Mode and Windows Virtual PC The latter is available to all Windows 7 users for free, and no longer requires hardware virtualization support. The former is a perk for Windows 7 Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise users, and provides a free, licensed copy of Windows XP Professional with SP3 for backwards compatibility purposes. The big new... more... - Leo Laporte
Windows 7 Tip of the Week: Get panoramic photo stitching and more (for free) with Windows Live Photo Gallery Windows Live Essentials includes a number of useful applications that every Windows 7 user should check out, but Windows Live Photo Gallery is particularly good, offering: panoramic photo stitching, simple sharing of local photos to online services (Windows Live Photos, Flickr,... more... - Leo Laporte
Audible pick of the week: Innocent by Scott Turow The sequel to Presumed Innocent(!!) http://www.audible.com/adbl... - Leo Laporte
Software pick of the week: 7 Sidebar http://nes.bplaced.net/sidebar... thanks to Eric Michaud for the tip - Leo Laporte
Think Paul would make a wonderful guest on East Meets West. - Hawklu
happy mothers day good show leo - daveccorey
ON TOM TOM ANY SEXY GIRL VOICES LEO - daveccorey
Robert Scoble
steverubel: Is everyone quitting Facebook? Or no one? http://bit.ly/9FtlPq /via @mike_elgan - http://twitter.com/steveru...
Amen - Jesse Stay
Isn't this just REALLY simple? If you don't want every bastard on the planet knowing something, don't put in on facebook. - Jim Connolly
I thought that was always the case - the fact is, most people just don't care. - Jesse Stay
Would like to quit, but it's too damn convenient. I can only hope it'll start getting so bad it can't be held up by only self-sustaining popularity and then collapse, ala Myspace. - Squall
Jesse: I think most people (non geeks) don't know about the changes to privacy settings etc. I agree, the majority don't care, though would like to know how that might change, if the other 99.9% of Facebook users discovered that "personal" stuff they share exclusively with buddies, actually is't? Of course, none of this really matters at all. Facebook's so big / powerful that it can do anything. What you or I think means so much less than zero Jesse. - Jim Connolly
Paul Buchheit
Finally catching up on yesterday's 300 comment flame-fest. I only posted about my own personal privacy settings, but I was immediately accused of drinking the Kool-Aid, and I believe the words "Nazi" and "pimp" were thrown around as well. This is an incredibly emotional issue, which unfortunately makes rational discussion very difficult.
I suspect that it's actually the issue of control (people aren't confident that they have it) more than privacy that causes so much angst, but I could be wrong. - Paul Buchheit
*wondering what the Kool-Aid Man looks like in a brownshirt and fur hat with a pheasant feather* - Spidra Webster
That's an awesome image Spidra! - Paul Buchheit
This is what happens to alot of the active users, we started turning on each other after the purchase, because there wasn't any new blood to interact with. I think some of us have gotten used to it by now, it happens a few times a week. - NOT THE CRICKET
Both Google and Facebook are asking people to trade privacy for value. Google has simply been smarter about it IMO. They've been *marketing* privacy (catch that 100K/day visits to dashboard post). Whereas Facebook has been marketing feature value - perhaps in hopes of convincing people to exchange that privacy for value. I wrote a bit about this today: http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/have-fa... - AJ Kohn
Paul for all of the irrational name calling, there are many more who admire you and like you. Don't be discouraged. - Shakeel Mahate
Thanks Shakeel. - Paul Buchheit
Privacy is what other people agree not to pass along; Publicity is what they are willing to pass along. - Cliff Gerrish from iPhone
Paul, I have a lot of respect for you and did not make any comments around your words but I am very opposed to the auto-opt-in stance that Facebook is taking. It shows little respect to FB's users. The difference with FF vs FB is that FB started out being a 'private culture'. A site should not switch that mid-stream. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Mark, I don't agree with everything Facebook does either, but that's not what I was posting about :) - Paul Buchheit
Sorry, still worked up about that and didn't see the 300+ topic I guess. ;-) - manielse (Mark Nielsen)
=( - Shevonne
*fist bump* Paul. - Derrick
I think that it is because Facebook made a promise initially to offer a space where people could share privately things with their friends. People are feeling betrayed. Emotions are a lot more powerful then reasoning when it comes to decision making. Aren't you the one who needs to know why a startup is doing what they are doing before investing? In this case, facebook seems to be changing the why/what they believe in. - Edwin Khodabakchian
Paul, I think the people here hold the FriendFeed team in high regard, and you personally. Resorting to name calling is always a bad move, and those who went that direction made the wrong move. I hope you can help your new colleagues make sharp decisions and help them become more transparent - so that we can understand what is currently not understood. - Louis Gray
Not just a chat room over at FB, Increasing Journalism, Political, Bricks and Mortar Interface new territory. - Thomas Page
Edwin, Facebook's mission is to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected. Although I don't always agree with their methods, I believe that's a good and valuable mission. - Paul Buchheit
@Paul: I think share is understood but open can be scary and connected even more so once people ... connect the dots. - AJ Kohn
That's a good and valuable mission, but they mean open in the sense of "open book" and not "open platform". Furthermore, I get the impression that they're deliberately letting confusion over that distinction remain. - Mr. Gunn
Paul, decent people (which were a majority of voices in that thread I believe) respect you, as do I. I've had some of the most rational, constructive discussions I can recall right here on FriendFeed - you and the team made that possible, and a whole virtual community here knows it. It's also an outlet for passionate expression and I have good friends here because of it. Just wanted to say thanks again. - Micah
I wrote a somewhat confusing blog post about that last year Mr. Gunn: http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2009... - Paul Buchheit
Paul. This is a good mission statement. I was just trying to give you the perspective of the users and what they think the purpose of facebook is. I think that the good news is that there is probably a balance (example: facebook connect is great where the instant personalization is perceived as just a way to make a quick buck - and very damaging to trust). To facebook's credit, although... more... - Edwin Khodabakchian
Paul, that you claim to have no idea what kind of information people might want to post to Facebook but keep private seems like a problem. One clear example that I often think about: a mother who left an abusive partner and now wants to be able to post updates and kid photos etc. but only let approved friends view them, not for example family members of the abuser. Very reasonable, and... more... - Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall, I never said that. It's easy to imagine things that people don't want public (pretty much everything in my email, for starters). What I asked is not for hypotheticals though, but what people here were concerned about personally. I find it's much more informative to get direct concerns rather than concerns that people imagine other people having. - Paul Buchheit
Ok, fair enough, sorry to have mischarecterized this: "I'm curious what everyone here is putting on their fb that is so secret? Maybe I'm doing it wrong. There are certainly things that I don't want out there (like my credit card numbers), but I'm not going to put that on my fb profile." The scenario described above isn't a hypothetical, fwiw, it's exactly where one of my close friends is on Facebook. - Marshall Kirkpatrick
Paul, if I'm worried about certain things becoming public on FB, why would I tell you exactly what I fear becoming public when this is a public thread on FriendFeed and will be on Google in 5 minutes if it isn't already? - Spidra Webster
Spidra, I meant the class of info (e.g. my credit card number), not the specific info (559234325323425). - Paul Buchheit
Paul, you are so pimp and I mean that in the best way possible. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Thanks Alex :) - Paul Buchheit
I like Friendfeed for these kind of discussions. - Ashish
I understand, but some stuff doesn't neatly fall into that category (credit card #, financial details) and even talking about it in general would basically give the game away. I don't think it's a coincidence that most of the folks who take the attitude "there is no such thing as privacy on the internet and you're a sucker for expecting there to be any" are men. Men, as a general category, are not as subject to stalking, domestic violence and rape. - Spidra Webster
Paul, I think you've hit the nail on the head, if only for my own issue with Facebook. I don't mind that there are services that are public: I'm fully aware that my FriendFeed and Twitter profiles are public, and I want them that way. What gets me about Facebook is that, ostensibly, there's some claim Facebook is making that privacy is an important thing, but it's so incredibly... more... - Mark Trapp
Thanks, Paul. And the expiration date? - Bruce Lewis
Being a man, I can't win that debate Spidra. - Paul Buchheit
10/10 I think. - Paul Buchheit
I personally consider facebook to be a private sphere (following people/family that I know enough that I would consider inviting them to my daughters wedding). There are a lot of things that I currently share on facebook that I would not share on twitter. For example, one of my daughters is having a heart surgery on Monday. She is getting a lot of support on facebook and I will use... more... - Edwin Khodabakchian
Mark, part of the problem is that efforts to simplify the privacy controls (which I agree are very complicated) are generally not well received, because it means taking away options. - Paul Buchheit
Edwin, I posted all of my daughter's surgeries on her blog (not that I'm saying everyone should do that). I can understand that not everyone feels comfortable with that, but I'm still curious if there's a specific fear, or just a general discomfort? - Paul Buchheit
My take is that it is not so much privacy that people are upset about (although I'm sure that there are people who are genuinely upset about privacy), but an interrupted feeling of closeness. - Clare Dibble
Paul, maybe it isn't about "winning". Maybe it's about entertaining the idea that some people have different experiences in life. That while you and others may be fine with the wall of the garden being knocked down, others aren't. And those others may have very valid reasons for feeling that way. It's about trying to put yourself in their shoes and imagine what it might be like to be in that position. - Spidra Webster
Paul, I understand that, but there are still things that just seem anti-user, even considering how much pushback you guys get on changing things. A couple of examples: you can't wholesale delete classes of items (like the activity on the wall), you can't prevent activity (like commenting and changing your profile) from appearing on your wall or your friends' newsfeeds, and, if you've been able to find the option to do so, deleting an account takes two weeks to do. - Mark Trapp
You're right, winning is a poor choice of words. What I meant to say was that the statement implied to me that I simply couldn't understand because I'm a man. - Paul Buchheit
I love social media and have participated in it extensively since getting on the 'net. It's not that I don't want to participate. It's that I want to be in control or at least notified AHEAD OF TIME of what is public and what isn't. Facebook keeps moving the goalposts and not being upfront with users about it. They do a piss poor job of communicating with users. They implement new... more... - Spidra Webster
My person view is that I'm very likely to share information publicly but get hesitant when settings are changed without me changing them. I like the concept of Open Social but let me decide that I want to share my Pandora channels with my Facebook friends, not the other way around. The fear is that FB is deciding what info to link together and if you don't pay attention new links will... more... - manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Hey, Paul, I was just kidding with you about the Kool-Aid thing, man. To lump my light-hearted jest in with 'Nazi' is a bit much and I think you know that. - Akiva
Sorry Akiva. - Paul Buchheit
What I mean is like a group of friends hanging out, cracking inside jokes in a public place when and outsider wanders by and tries to join the fun. Following peoples daily rituals and struggles is a form of intimacy and people literally feel a bit naked in front of the world when that goes to a close group of friends to "everyone". But we have seen communities of strangers become good friends because of it here on friendfeed. - Clare Dibble
Yeah, I think that's a pretty good example Clare. It changes people's behavior when they don't know who is listening. However, once all of your family, co-workers, etc are on there, I feel like a lot of that is already lost because it's such a diverse group. - Paul Buchheit
No social network has gotten the "Circles of friends" piece right yet. There are friends and then there are FRIENDS. Then there are co-workers and CO-WORKERS. Then family, classmates, etc. Each of those grouping a person has a different set of "openness" with. I want a professional image with Co-Workers but maybe be a little more open (passing a NSFW joke) to other sets of friends. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)
The controls for privacy (and much of the UI in general) are too byzantine on Facebook. One gets the feeling it's set up like insurance, where you're meant not to get past certain steps. I'm not saying that's how it was designed - just that it feels that way. All that said, people need to take more personal responsibility for what they share online. And there IS reason to be careful. I... more... - AJ Kohn
Using the Pandora example: I may listen to Death Metal and now my HR rep looks me over for a promotion as they now have a new image of me. HR would have never looked at Pandora before this FB linkage. It's a hypothetical but those stories will happen. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Paul, I think you provided a public service yesterday by kindly allowing people to flog you as an effigy for their anger over the Facebook changes. Kind of like being in the wrong place at the right time. - Martha
Not a specific fear. Just a feeling of discomfort. - Edwin Khodabakchian
Mark, if your HR rep overlooks you for promotion based on musical tastes, you should consider looking for a new job. I know that's not practical for everyone, but in general we should fix problems, not hide them. - Paul Buchheit
It would be convenient if no one ever felt any discomfort about sharing personal information with arbitrary people, but I don't think that's likely to be common any time soon. I think people will always be embarrassed about something. That's just the nature of social groups. - Seth
Paul, do you really think there is a place where promotions are not based on what the powers that be think of that person? - Clare Dibble
It was an example but one that can happen. Openness will not fix stereotypes and bias. Many non-web companies and people are not ready for this new world of full transparency. I'm only playing Devil's Advocate btw because I believe in privacy/security first, openness as a feature. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Of course it's an issue Clare, though I expect it's a bigger problem for things like race and gender, which are much harder to hide. - Paul Buchheit
Seth, I suspect some cultures have much more fear and embarrassment than others, and that the difference is driven in part by secrecy. People are embarrassed because they feel uniquely weird/defective. They will feel better if they know they're not alone. - Paul Buchheit
I'm still proud of my bus/taxi metaphor. =) - Andrew C (✔)
Paul, I'm sure there's some of that, but there are lots of other issues tied to the things people choose not to share. For example, if I had an ongoing serious medical issue, I might just not want to get into it with everyone I meet, even if it's not something I'm ashamed of. - Seth
Just so that no legends are created here, here is the actual "Nazi reference", which was specifically NOT raised against either Paul or Facebook, but against the WORDING of some of the arguments: "Chris/Darren, just because 'they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way' doesn't mean we all have to like it. The same could be said e.g. for the Nazi's taking over Germany. [Later..]... more... - Alex Schleber
Yeah, it's just that the arrival of Nazi's are usually a bad sign for a discussion. - Paul Buchheit
Well, Facebook's 500M users raises the stakes by a good bit. Don't forget, Paul, you're on the inside looking out, we're on the outside looking in. There's no getting around that. - Alex Schleber
Paul, you say: "I suspect some cultures have much more fear and embarrassment than others, and that the difference is driven in part by secrecy. People are embarrassed because they feel uniquely weird/defective. They will feel better if they know they're not alone." --- Now you're really starting to freak me out with this Orwell-Speak. I am dead serious, maybe check for group think every once in a while. - Alex Schleber
What Orwell-Speak Alex? People form support groups for a reason. - Paul Buchheit
Alex, I get the impression that Paul's question isn't about Facebook at all. This is something he's been talking about since before Facebook approached FriendFeed. - Bruce Lewis
Yeah, I'm one of the people who thought Facebook was too closed. - Paul Buchheit
Paul, I thought Facebook was too closed, too. That's why I chose to use networks like Twitter and Friendfeed. I left Facebook for the people who wanted a closed network, because that's of high value to a lot of people. With Facebook abandoning its original vision of a closed network with close control over who you share information with, I'd argue that it's lost the very thing that made it different and valuable. And opening it up hasn't made it more valuable to me, either. - Jandy
One question: it seems that with likes improving both user profile information and metadata around a lot of the fresh/interesting content around the web, Facebook has enough moving parts to, in an aggregate/privacy safe fashion, create a very competitive search solution, one that Google might have trouble competing with because of inferior profile information. Is there a reason why Facebook is so aggressive with regard to privacy? Isn't search the big monetization opportunity? - Edwin Khodabakchian
Fine, that's your right, Paul. But why do all of the other FB users have to be on board? If they wanted super open, they would have been on Friendfeed like the rest of us, no? But people flocked into FB to a large extent because of the "Walled Garden" feel. - Alex Schleber
Edwin, I doubt that you'll believe me, but I contrary to popular opinion, it's not about monetization. - Paul Buchheit
So then what is Zuck's grand ultimate vision, Paul? If you're allowed to say, just tell us. - Alex Schleber
Alex, "to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected". - Paul Buchheit
I have huge respect for you so I believe you. May be you should have started instant personalization with some non profit organizations and demonstrate the power of more open in a different context. Specially given how much bad rap Yelp has been getting lately. - Edwin Khodabakchian
Edwin, if it were up to me, that's not the only thing that would be different about instant personalization. - Paul Buchheit
"they will feel better" = Orwell-Speak. And BTW, support groups place an absolute premium on privacy. If you're found out to be divulging details spoken in private within the group, you're likely to be booted. Please, leave the psychology to the psychologists/counselors (and Zuck's bit of undergrad psych that Scoble is so in love with doesn't count either - I'd say he knows just enough to be a little dangerous in terms of sucking people in). - Alex Schleber
"to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected" --- I thought that's what the entire Web was for?! It would seem he took a rather indirect path to that then, wouldn't you say? - Alex Schleber
Alex, my daughter was in the hospital for three months and we chronicled the entire thing on her blog. Not only did we meet other people as a result, but other people in similar situations said that it really helped to see her story. This isn't theoretical for me, and it's not "Orwell-Speak". - Paul Buchheit
I thought FB was just private enough (before). Again, different tools, different benefits. For example, allowing just everyone to email me on LinkedIn would /reduce/ LI's utility, not increase it... - Andrew C (✔)
Why does he think he needs to "give people the power"? Are we all defective then in his view? - Alex Schleber
Seriously? - Paul Buchheit
Paul, I am very sorry about whatever happened to your daughter, and am glad if you and/or anyone else found comfort in sharing very openly online. But you cannot simply extrapolate from your experience to everyone elses. Therein lies the rub exactly. You persist despite the fact that people on the prior thread were disagreeing with you somewhere around 5:1. - Alex Schleber
How do you mean? - Alex Schleber
Your "we are all defective" line, as though every tool-maker is insulting humanity. Is truth a matter of opinion for you? - Paul Buchheit
People aren't socially broken when they adjust their behaviour and public face to fit certain contexts. I would argue that (within reason) such behaviour is actually well-adjusted. (sorry, I'm catching up in bits and pieces here and my point with this was related to the Pandora/death metal hypothetical.) - Andrew C (✔)
Also, if everyone agreed with me, there would be no point in discussing it :) - Paul Buchheit
Not every toolmaker gives out business cards that read: "I'm CEO, Bitch!" - Alex Schleber
Alex, I think he (Zuck) sees the software as a way to HELP people more easily share and connect. Of course, we can do that without FB (or the internet for that matter), but these tools allow us to do it more efficiently. For example, right now FF is allowing us to engage in a discussion about our FB privacy concerns with Paul. I would say that's incredibly empowering. - Chip Ramsey
Maybe "incredibly" is a bit of a stretch, even though, as we all agreed on above, Friendfeed has been pretty awesome. Facebook is another story... - Alex Schleber
Well, you have access to someone who can make a difference at Facebook. I wonder if the opportunity hasn't been squandered. Paul, do you feel you actually have a better understanding of people's concerns than before you made your initial post? - Chip Ramsey
Not dramatically, but discussing something with a semi-hostile crowd is always somewhat enlightening, often in unexpected ways. - Paul Buchheit
Thanks for taking the time to try to understand Paul - Chris Myles
Flame fest turned into BBQ. Lemonade out of lemons. I like. - Josh Haley
See, the world is good. I love BBQ :) - Paul Buchheit
Semi-hostile = less heated = slow-cook BBQ - Bruce Lewis from fftogo
Paul, FWIW, I know you're a smart guy, and I sincerely hope that you're a good guy too, who would speak up (and maybe even quit) if something at FB became a real problem. Of course for that to happen you first have to recognize it as a problem, so if this discussion sticks in your mind someday in the future, then it will have all been worth it. - Alex Schleber
Alex, I'm sorry if I'm asking you to repeat yourself, but would you mind listing the top few things you think Facebook could do to alleviate your concerns? I know this is an emotional issue for a lot of people, but I think the less emotional and more concise the list, the better it will be. Although there is nothing I can do about FB, I'm working on a business collaboration tool (that... more... - Chip Ramsey
Stepping back, I think that I understand better Paul's passion about making the world more open. I think that there are 2 issues: 1) the perception that facebook is doing this to better profile people and better target them with advertisement. 2) it will take time for people to overcome their "discomfort" of living in the open and it is very important for them to feel in control - right... more... - Edwin Khodabakchian
Paul: You make a lot of good points regarding FB and your personal ideas on privacy. Paradoxically, by trashing privacy, what you and FB are ACTUALLY doing, is making people less transparent, because there's no trust that we can keep private info (or conversations) safe on FB any more. I wouldn't worry though - 99% of users have no idea what FB are doing regarding privacy and you are way too big to suffer. You can (literally) do anything you want. - Jim Connolly
Privacy / control settings should maybe just be a first-order element on the page, not a tab in a settings area. The mechanism should be simple enough to fit in a 100-200px tall box. If home page is a dashboard, then this control panel should be somewhere there, wouldn't you think? - Christopher Galtenberg
(Not do this with all control panel elements, obviously. Just those of first-order importance. FB should want this, to obviate its most prominent achilles heel.) - Christopher Galtenberg
Under Get Connected, a Privacy section with 4-6 simple on/off toggles. Sweetness, problem solved. - Christopher Galtenberg
I am so going on a spending spree with Paul's credit card. First purchase: BBQ for everyone! - Laura Norvig
Chip, I've been writing up some points late-late last night, getting things in order for a future post. As for Paul/Facebook, it seems pretty clear that they've made up their mind, even though their users already told them with Beacon that they didn't want all of this automatic public stuff, thank you. Apparently, that's not what Zuck wanted to hear. - Alex Schleber
...Paradoxically, it is FB's either/or stance on this that's at the heart of the problem: Who says they couldn't keep their users' privacy as protected as possible, while also doing useful/innovative/profitable things with the data? I fundamentally disagree that it is somehow necessary to hand as much data as they are doing off to either FB Apps (that's long been a thorn/nuisance) or now to all sorts of 3rd party sites. - Alex Schleber
I just have to say, OOOH YEAAAAH!!! :-) - Jesse Stay
+1 Sam Wood. - Alex Schleber
Well said, Sam. "Why can't you change the nature of what you want? Glass house and all, it's the ideal, haven't you heard? Why can't you just conform?" Well, dammit, because I don't want to, ok? Do you want me as a user or not? - Christopher Galtenberg
Alex, you wrote to Paul: "You persist despite the fact that people on the prior thread were disagreeing with you somewhere around 5:1." These statistics are flawed. People who disagreed were much more likely to comment. I am not particularly exercised about the issue and have higher priority uses of my time than getting into an argument here. I suspect the same is true of many others. The "5:1" comes from a highly biased sample. My lack of comment should not be taken to mean anything. - Ruchira S. Datta
And we have already given a fair number of specific examples where privacy is still a desired/assumed good. And while Jesse has been busy calling us paranoid (the only ad hominem in the entire debate so far BTW) and that we should assume that anything we put into the Internet to just be public, the reality is that that would simply reduce the number of Internet based services we use SIGNIFICANTLY (online banking, shopping, IM/email, dating, etc.). ... - Alex Schleber
...See, the assumption used to be that if your site is password protected, then the stuff inside is at least a lot more private than the Internet at large. Yes, there can be screw-ups/glitches/what have you, but those AREN'T BY DESIGN. Facebook used to be that way: Without login, you couldn't see much of anything. Without somebody being your friend, you couldn't see much of anything about them. - Alex Schleber
Ruchira: Well, obviously I cannot say anything about a sample that doesn't exist (I was talking about the thread). BTW, your statement that "People who disagreed were much more likely to comment" is merely your opinion. Unless you get some stats to back that up (always question when someone trots out the "silent majority"). And fine, even if it were an even split, are therefore our... more... - Alex Schleber
Here's an idea that could settle things pretty quickly a to user intent: With no equivocation, Facebook could do a forced choice for each user on login: 1) I want everything to be completely private, no one but my friends sees nothing. 2) I want everything to be completely open. 3) I want to muddle through with the detailed settings somewhere in the middle,which will be my responsibiliy. - Alex Schleber
...THAT would be transparent. A fair up or down vote, with no one left out due to misunderstandings. Of course FB/Zuck/Paul et al. will never go for that, given how much they've already finagled past users. - Alex Schleber
FWIW I stopped trying to defend it all in that thread because it became hostile. I'm sure there were others afraid to comment, on both sides, as well. - Jesse Stay
Unsurprisingly, a 300 comment flame-fest erupts from a post about a 300 comment flame-fest. - Carter ♥ JS
Someone needs to create a plugin that when you click on it the Kool-Aid man comes out and says, "OOOH YEAAAAH!" - Jesse Stay
Kind of like the Duck plugin - Jesse Stay
Really this has been remarkably reasonable thread given that the subject matter is charged IMO. No one threatened to delete their Friendeed account yet... :) We know how some of those emo threads on here can go... - Alex Schleber
The Facebook Kool-Aid Man? I.e. Mark Z.? - Alex Schleber
i'm deleting everything everywhere! *stomps off whimpering* - Big Joe Silence
+1 Carter, though I disagree with the "flame-fest" characterization. Paul is thereby making this too easy on himself IMO. - Alex Schleber
I don't think I ever saw Zuck (or any Facebook employee) deleting their Buzz account after their privacy problems ;-) - Jesse Stay
Okay, done flaming... ;-) - Jesse Stay
"to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected" - Paul, I think if, instead of changing the visibility status of previously posted content to a more public setting, FB had said "going forward, your posts will be more public, but the privacy status of your past posts hasn't changed," users would feel that their 'contract' with FB had been changed without... more... - John Craft
There was rightly a lot of scorn heaped upon Google for that and all the other Buzz screw-ups (one of the key one's being not being Friendfeed :). You're evading, Jesse. - Alex Schleber
Alex, I'm just saying, so long as we're talking about Kool-Aid and pointing to Zuck: http://staynalive.com/article... - Jesse Stay
http://mattmckeon.com/faceboo... <- good timeline, so we have a bit of a basis to discuss from - Alex Schleber
Jesse: Haha, while we're on the subject of distracting from the subject at hand... -> http://www.boingboing.net/2010... - Alex Schleber
"good timeline, so we have a bit of a basis to discuss from" - and for many (all?) of those expansions, a user's awareness was "hey! we just made you more public!" not "in a few days we're going to make you more public." The end result is a loss of trust from FB users who valued the privacy. - John Craft
http://www.boingboing.net/2010... One great thing for Facebook about all of these Facebook privacy angst stories is that, for the first time, these posts get significantly more "Shares"/"Likes"/etc. than Retweets. Usually, as can be seen from Jesse's Chrome OS post above, tech/geek stuff has 65 Retweets and 3 FB Shares... ;) - Alex Schleber
Two great lines sum it up: “Facebook has become more scary than fun”, “If I’m looking for a day care for my 6-year-old, I’m going to put that in my status message, not do a Google search.” http://nyti.ms/bqzmm6 - Christopher Galtenberg
I love how the mainstream press refuses to print danah's name in lower case. Or it just gets copyedited out all the time but that would bother me if I were her. - Laura Norvig
BTW, here is a great tool to verify what Facebook currently really makes public about you, you can see that most everything has already been subsumed into a huge mish-mash of "Likes"... http://zesty.ca/faceboo... and apparently, Hawai'i is now an organization, and Psychology and Philosophy are "Book Genres"...sigh. - Alex Schleber
Wow, just saw that Facebook "disappeared" my work & edu data in the transition...smooth DB work, guys...it will be interesting to see how much data is actually lost in these coming days & weeks. I have pretty recent counts from FB Ads on about 50 keywords, will compare those with the new #s soon and report back. - Alex Schleber
I'd feel a LOT more comfortable if Facebook's misson was "to give people the power to share and the power to be open and connected (when appropriate)", and if the tools backed that up and retained the choices *not* to be more open (when appropriate), instead of "to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected". That whole *MAKE* thing is just way too tyrannical. - Tinfoil 2.0
@LogEx: Interesting, I hadn't really caught 'make' as a forced connotation but can see how it could be interpreted as such. Would "enable a more open and connected world" be better? - AJ Kohn
Yes, "make" is what FB has been doing at least since November and "enable" would be better, but the flipside should be explicitly stated too... to allow each user to choose where they want to live on the publicity-privacy spectrum is also essential (even moreso for vulnerable populations). In real life, most people have more privacy [read: choice and control] than publicity. Online communities should support that. - Tinfoil 2.0
@LogEx: prezactly! - vicster: full-bodied
Oh, and apparently now FB will stab Farmville in the back too...the nerve...what about the animals... :) http://techcrunch.com/2010... - Alex Schleber
Alex, thank you for the detailed response. I think your suggestion for a simplified three level system is reasonable. I was leaning towards a similar approach as well – settings that are very easy to explain and should rarely (if ever) need to be changed. Although, things get tricky when you're trying to implement an API that provides useful functionality to the third-party apps users choose to authorize. - Chip Ramsey
It seems to me that the only way to keep API access simple (and useful) is to tell the user that they shouldn't authorize any application they don't want to have full access to their information. In my opinion, expecting users to manage privacy settings on a per application basis is asking too much. Also, allowing customized settings per user and application makes life much more difficult on application developers and probably renders a whole class of collaborative applications useless. - Chip Ramsey
^^ I'm talking about my own experiences designing an app BTW. Not trying to get everyone riled up again. - Chip Ramsey
Inspired by this discussion, I have a FB feature request: Facebook Embarrassing Trends, a list of text strings updated hourly. These would be text strings that appeared in a high percentage of Facebook updates that were explicitly made private recently. "Photos from last night's drunken revel" for example. The data would be aggregated, so it wouldn't embarrass any individual. But we'd learn something about ourselves as a society. - Larry Hosken
Another real example of unintended consequences even only social graphs (i.e. friends lists): http://www.boston.com/bostong... And in case Jesse or anyone else wants to say something like: "Well, you shouldn't want to keep that private anyway" --- this is NOT a discussion over whether anyone anywhere has legitimate privacy wishes, about their sexual orientation or anything else. - Alex Schleber
...Which BTW still can have immediate real world consequences for members of the U.S. military as you well know. Also, here's this: http://www.binint.com/2010... - Alex Schleber
Chip, that's the thing, if you asked any users straight up whether anything should be loosened up for the particular delight/easement/practicality of any third-party apps (or even FB itself for that matter), you know the answer is extremely likely to be a resounding NO. Given that, if you are changing things in the background, largely in the fine-print so to speak, just don't delude yourself that it's not sneaky. - Alex Schleber
Also, is Louis Gray paranoid too here? -> http://www.google.com/buzz... "Facebook has added many FriendFeed-like features, but they have also acted in a way that makes me uncomfortable in terms of changing the rules of privacy in the middle of the game, while also locking away other pieces of content that should, in my... more... - Alex Schleber
Chip, interesting that WIRED just said about the same thing as I did: "Facebook could start with a very simple page of choices: I’m a private person, I like sharing some things, I like living my life in public. Each of those would have different settings for the myriad of choices, and all of those users could then later dive into the control panel to tweak their choices. That would be... more... - Alex Schleber
Here is an interesting post from Jeff Jarvis on the subject: http://www.buzzmachine.com/2010... - Edwin Khodabakchian
Here is an interesting visualization which showcases the perception problem facebook is having of pushing too aggressively users towards public http://mattmckeon.com/faceboo... - Edwin Khodabakchian
OK, so Scoble, after initially being somewhat reserved about the consequences of Facebook's actions, is now 110% on board it seems, spying on people's odd musical tastes on Pandora was just too much to resist I guess... -> http://scobleizer.com/2010... - Alex Schleber
Thanks for the discussion, (gg Alex, Edwin you held for some good points) I enjoyed those two threads a lot. If anyone wanted to know what I think: I share a lot, web pages, thoughts, etc. And any private stuff, I keep in my head for now as it's lot more work openly. We'll see with examples in the future. Got a theory on private stuff: Unless it's data like address or financial details... more... - Zu from AOD
Scoble, Alex Scoble
Sorry bears, but the markets don't go south like that for no reason and there was no reason for that sudden tank. From what I am hearing it was a computer glitch.
Stock market plunge - Check the news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1... PLUS General election in UK - Markets hate uncertainty ?? - Jim Connolly
Buy? - Todd Hoff
I'd say so, Todd. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
I'm actually surprised that they haven't halted trading after that nonsense. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Alex, that doesn't mean the 280 point drop earlier was nothing. - NOT THE CRICKET
The question is what :-) - Todd Hoff
Correct, Jimminy. That wasn't nonsense...but that 800 point drop is redonkulous. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Yeah, I'll agree, I was refreshing the chart every few seconds and it would lose about 150 points. - NOT THE CRICKET
Yeah, there are lots of reasons for the markets to be down 2 to 4%, there's no reason for the huge drop we just saw. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
There *is* a reason. - Anthony Citrano
Yeah, a computer glitch...that's not a real reason, Anthony. :) - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Unless the bankers know something we don't, the UK political situation should have already been factored into the markets. - CdL Creative
The Plunge Protection Team can get quite creative - to make a 500-point drop not seem so bad, they take it down another 500 and everyone's happy when it recovers. ;) - Aviv
Then you have CNBC cheering the Dow comeback. We've been there before.. - Aviv
Hmm, well now we are all waiting for the real reason for the dip since it's being reported that it wasn't caused by a computer glitch. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
No, Alex, I think its much more serious. - Melanie Reed
Alex, I agree with what Melanie said and also with Aviv's implication. Stay tuned. - Anthony Citrano
Greece is going to default and then be kicked out of the EU. The EU will then bail out what is left of the PIIGS. - Dave Hodson
The tumult and the shouting dies; The Captains and the Kings depart: Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice, An humble and a contrite heart. Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet, Lest we forget lest we forget! - Rudyard Kipling - Melanie Reed
Dave, that's if Germany doesn't leave the EU, first. - NOT THE CRICKET
@Dave: joining the Eurozone is a one-way street (excepting lunacy). We're witnessing the flip side of the coin with regard to unified currency with no unified policymaking authority. When fundamentals are good, it's really good. When fundamentals are bad.... whatthefuckyougonnado? - Anthony Citrano
CNBC is reporting that someone at CITI made a "fat finger error" trading P&G stock. They intended to sell 1million sales, but entered 1 BILLION instead. - Dave Hodson
@Anthony - this is simple. The people of Greece won't take to the austerity measures approved by their govt today. They will throw them out of office, elect a new crew who will have Greece unilaterally leave the EU. - Dave Hodson
Simple, I guess, if one doesn't bother to consider the ramifications of bond defaults, bank runs, devalued currencies, and the resultant socioeconomic unrest. - Anthony Citrano
@Anthony - obviously, leaving the EU, defaulting on debt etc won't be "simple" for Greece. The impact will be horrific - Dave Hodson
Blame the quant funds. - DJ Stevie Steve from Android
Plus when the IMF does their magic trick- demand goes in the crapper and that stalls recovery here and elswhere - WarLord
Looks like Accenture traded as low as $0.01 - this is obviously a bug somewhere. Prediction - good growth in payroll announced tomorrow, market jumps - Dave Hodson
CNBC is reporting that the selloff may have been triggered by a trader error. Looks like someone is taking one for the team. ;) - Aviv
an error in one trade (proctor and gamble; b for billion instead if m for million) should not have this dramatic an impact. it does because trading is, and has been for some time, been based on the psychology of speculation rather than underlying value. market traders di not believe in "the efficient market" and so no one bothers to care if news is good or bad, movement sets off trades... more... - David HC Soul from BuddyFeed
Now they're saying (CNBC that is) there were 7 major stocks that fell to an intraday low of $0.01. This followed by a bunch of rocket scientists proclaiming the mkt is doomed. Hilarious - Dave Hodson
7 stocks is now 9 stocks trading at $0.01 - Dave Hodson
Paul Buchheit
It's interesting that having my FriendFeed and Twitter set to public is completely unremarkable, but my using the same setting on Facebook seems like a big deal, e.g. http://blogs.wsj.com/digits...
The first sentence of that article should explain the difference to you. If it doesn't, then I think you need to lay off the Kool-Aid for a bit. It's clouding your mind. - Akiva
Were either Friendfeed, or Twitter, sold as a private place to interact with friends, to begin with? - NOT THE CRICKET
Akiva, putting those two sentences next to each other does not mean that they are logically connected. I chose to make my settings more public. Why is that an issue? - Paul Buchheit
Doesn't your Facebook profile have things like address and phone number? - Gabe
Yeah, as I mentioned, I don't make phone and email public because I don't want sales calls or whatever. - Paul Buchheit
"We made the site so that all of our members are a part of smaller networks like schools, companies or regions, so you can only see the profiles of people who are in your networks and your friends. We did this to make sure you could share information with the people you care about. This is the same reason we have built extensive privacy settings — to give you even more control over who you share your information with." - Mark Zuckerberg 9/8/06 - http://blog.facebook.com/blog... - Carter ♥ JS
That's not the issue, Paul. The issue is that the privacy settings in Facebook can cause people to 'unwittingly expose' information about themselves. My FriendFeed and Twitter accounts are also public but I don't have my home address or phone number or anything linked to those accounts. You, of course, are far more educated about Internet privacy and whatnot than, say, Grandma Indiana... more... - Akiva
The point being that Facebook level-set their users to expect privacy as the DEFAULT. Twitter and Friendfeed never did that. - Carter ♥ JS
Akiva, I'm pretty sure the default for home address and phone number is not "public". I only adjusted my defaults to make them more public, not less. - Paul Buchheit
I think the 'big deal' portion has everything to do with original intent and marketing - Twitter and FF haven't been marketed as private. Facebook very explicitly started that way. In migrating away from their original ideas, the FB team as not been a) open or b) responsive about privacy concerns. I really respect your work, but FB staff dismissing these concerns because they don't... more... - Jennifer Dittrich
A Twitter or FriendFeed profile doesn't list your address, phone number, schools you attended, employer, personal interests, family members, birthdate, etc. If you fill in the blanks on a Facebook profile, all of that is shown. - Rochelle
+1 Rochelle. - Jeff (Team マクダジ )
Paul, you might be right. When I signed up for Facebook, the first thing I did was lock down everything that I wanted locked down. But not everyone is going to understand that. And it doesn't help that you guys are consistently changing (you may say, refining) how privacy is controlled which just adds to everyone's confusion. Combine that with the fact that it seems like your boss is... more... - Akiva
Perhaps you're reading too much into what I said. All I said was that I made my stuff mostly public, and that I've gotten a lot of value out of that. - Paul Buchheit
I think we'll all look back on this transition from "privacy is essential" to "privacy is an obstacle" to be on the biggest bait-and-switches ever executed at scale (400+ million people). - Carter ♥ JS
I locked down everything... And then everytime some new "feature" rolls out, I need to go back and "re-lockdown" stuff... It's annoying - Jeff (Team マクダジ )
I probably have, Paul. I think I just saw your statement in contrast with the article and went with that. - Akiva
+1 Carter re: biggest bait-and-switches ever executed at scale. - Alex Schleber
I'm curious what everyone here is putting on their fb that is so secret? Maybe I'm doing it wrong. There are certainly things that I don't want out there (like my credit card numbers), but I'm not going to put that on my fb profile. - Paul Buchheit
I don't think it's so much the information as it is the principle of the matter. But maybe that's just me. - Derrick
Btw, I agree that there is a legitimate debate with respect to the way in which Facebook updates defaults, but that wasn't the topic we were discussing. - Paul Buchheit
Really Paul? Look, in all likelihood Facebook, Zuck, and you are succeeding at pulling one over on hundreds of millions of people. And you know exactly what you're doing. Fine, you win, but please spare us this "innocent from the country" routine. A certain class of people (read tech geeks) are not fooled for one second. - Alex Schleber
What Derrick said. - Rochelle
Humor me Alex. I'm genuinely curious what people are most fearful about. - Paul Buchheit
Example: I have friends on Capitol Hill in DC who are insanely paranoid about their public image, but still like sharing some fun photos or stories with close friends. That's one use case. There are MANY more. Please don't treat yourself as representative of 400 million people. - Carter ♥ JS
For example, why does one need to share a real name, or phone number at all? You don't have to do that with FriendFeed, or Twitter. Can you do that on Facebook at all? - Derrick
The problem I have with the Facebook deal is that it was a bait and switch. They got people to sign up with this understanding that your info was in a closed system and seemingly secure unless you didn't want it to be. Then, after they got everyone to input their info, they said, "Hey, we changed our mind; we're going to give it to advertisers anyway. Quit if you want." - rowlikeagirl
Paul: I get value out of having Twitter and FF completely public. Thats not the issue. The issue here is that FB was originally sold as a private service. Another thing. You and I may have seen value out of being completely public, but the only value to anyone about Grandma Indinana being completely public belongs to the knitting accessories advertisers. - Roberto Bonini
Paul, for me, it's not a matter of fear but a matter of ownership. I'm definitely on the more paranoid end of the scale as I'm only marginally comfortable for people to know even what city I live in. On the other end of that spectrum are guys like Robert and Louis who put their cell phone number on the web and welcome people to call. I don't want any of my information going out of my... more... - Akiva
It's simple, Paul. While I agree that I myself never put much of anything into Facebook I might live to regret, the same isn't true for everybody else. Several examples curated over here: http://alexschleber.amplify.com/2010... - Alex Schleber
This "value to advertisers" meme is interesting. It gets repeated a lot by bloggers, but nobody ever explains what any of this has to do with advertising. Ad targetting could be done regardless of privacy settings (just as Google does). - Paul Buchheit
You have a BBQ team? Is that as awesome as it sounds? - Paul Buchheit
Re "value to advertisers": by making more of FB public/open/crawlable, you can increase the volume of traffic/pageviews and ultimately increase impressions/clicks. Money in the bank. - Carter ♥ JS
And for the record I don't have a FB account. In the old days, snail mail mostly guaranteed privacy for your communications by virtue of the fact that your communiques were physically sealed by you. That essentially is the analogue version of FB pre privacy changes, albeit not at scale. In other words, privacy was implicit in the social convention of exchanging snail mails. With FB,... more... - Roberto Bonini
Can anyone show up to those competitions and eat the food, or do you have to be judge or something? I'd seriously consider making the trip. - Paul Buchheit
"Privacy is hard; let's have a BBQ!" :) - Benjamin Golub
You cannot argue with a thread that gets derailed by BBQ. It's against the law. - Akiva
Carter, I doubt it. Fb has a completely ridiculous number of page views already. The bump from searching random status messages or whatever would not be significant. - Paul Buchheit
Speaking of profiles: Benjamin, you need to update yours to say "Facebooker", right? ;) - Carter ♥ JS
Wow, I'm definitely going to have to go to memphisinmay sometime. - Paul Buchheit
Paul, you can NEVER have too much traffic. Come on... anyway, this thread has made me hungry. And it's only 11am PST! :( - Carter ♥ JS
Carter: As far as I know people that work here don't call themselves Facebookers. But I have that exact question listed in my Twitter profile: http://twitter.com/bgolub - Benjamin Golub
Dang, now I want bbq. - Derrick
"I promise Facebook will or will not take over the world with Likes, targeted ads, and evil privacy violat... oh look, there's a shiny BBQ object over here..." :( - Alex Schleber
Paul, the issue is choice. Facebook users used to be more private by the nature of what Facebook was. It's great if some people want to be more public, but in the process of adding those features, Facebook has most definitely removed choices to keep many things private and essentially coerced more public settings, but yet still operates under a model where people's profiles are expected... more... - Tinfoil 2.0 from iPhone
I'm really glad Paul's talking about this - I wish more of the Facebook team would talk about intentions. I hear a lot through personal connections, but nothing makes a bigger difference than the internal team being willing to talk about this stuff with the public. - Jesse Stay
I have no problems with aspects of my profile being public, but IMO the problem is that Facebook tends to go with default opt-in often enough, and in general isn't consistent with how changes are implemented and doesn't necessarily make it easy for users to know exactly what they're doing. - Deepak Singh
+1 Jesse (as another FBer) - Ashwin Bharambe
Here's my opinion: Facebook is in a no-win situation. If they stay private, everyone criticizes them as a "walled garden", and they can't grow as fast either. If they go public (yet keep privacy controls in place), everyone will criticize them for revealing too much information. I think Facebook's making the right move in making things more public so that future new users know without a... more... - Jesse Stay
Jesse, it ultimately doesn't freaking matter what Paul thinks their intentions are (so far he is sounding a tad naive here), only the eventual *outcomes*. Do you trust Mark Zuckerberg? How about Microsoft or anyone else who may one day buy or control Facebook? - Alex Schleber
Then there's this: http://www.eff.org/deeplin... re: the new "connections" formerly known as Interests, etc. ... yeah, Paul, let's see your detailed response to what is said in that piece. Thanks in advance for not veering off into BBQ. - Alex Schleber
Alex, ultimately you can't trust any company, can you? - Jesse Stay
Otto, amen - Jesse Stay
FWIW, Facebook does have a process for users to debate these terms - if enough users disagree Facebook will re-evaluate. I believe the last few times there weren't enough objections to change. - Jesse Stay
Also, FWIW, the only information available by default is here: http://www.facebook.com/help... - specifically, "name, profile picture, gender, current city, networks, friend list, and Pages" - Jesse Stay
I don't think it's that big a deal they're sharing that, personally. Heck, I give away my phone number and e-mail address on my blog, both publicly and in a parseable manner in the source code. - Jesse Stay
Jesse, that "process" is totally rigged. The problem is that users are lazy and stick to defaults (even if those default change over time). Asking lazy people to log objections is very cynical. - Carter ♥ JS
Carter, and I don't think most users really care - Jesse Stay
Well, they don't care * incrementally*. It's like the frog in the water that never notices the water is getting hotter until its too late :) - Carter ♥ JS
Ye ye...keep telling yourself that, Jesse. I think TODAY's Facebook IM glitch proves that they still do care to some extent (if they are conscious of the issues at least). do you want all your instant messages to be public? How about your phone SMS and convos? What if the phone/cell co decides that all that really doesn't need to be private anymore, that your privacy is overrated anyway, and people should just get with the "new openness" program... - Alex Schleber
Alex, you guys are way too paranoid. Just don't put anything online you don't want public and you're fine. That goes for Facebook as well. Educate people on that rather than saying "the sky is falling" with Facebook. - Jesse Stay
"If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."--Google CEO Eric Schmidt - Ashish
Jesse - that is a fine thing to say if people are giving *warning* that what was default private has now become default public *before* it happens. With the changes recently made I now have people who are finding my best friends family members (both girls) because now my likes and wall posts are public. Now I have to stop communicating with them until I figure out all of the myriad ways to hide my FB data and even then the trust has been lost so I doubt I will continue. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Re: Eric Schmidt - search Google for "Eric Schmidt affair", good stuff! http://www.google.com/search... - Carter ♥ JS
i miss friendfeed. - Zee.
As anyone who's married knows, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. - Darren
Facebook did what they had to do to compete long term in the ever changing social landscape. - Darren
It was the right decision. - Darren
Darren, even if FB considered it the proper decision (which I really hope they do for all the grief they are getting) it could have been executed in a more tolerant/privacy friendly manner. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
bear, consider the actions of recent Facebook's warning. It's clear Facebook wants to be more public. - Jesse Stay
Darren.. I agree and they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way. It even uses privacy rules in place since last Nov/Dec, so I don't understand *most* of the recent complaints. - Chris Myles
Chris, agreed - Jesse Stay
Jesse, Chris - that is great that they used existing framework as it did make it easier to check what changed. But what isn't great was the lack of info (and it could be because i'm just now a FB "power user") on the fact that my actions on other's posts/events now cause them to be more visible than *they* want. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Chris/Darren, just because "they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way" doesn't mean we all have to like it. The same could be said e.g. for the Nazi's taking over Germany. - Alex Schleber
Yeah, what LogEx, Akiva, Roberto, etc all said: FB started off closed. People signed on with a certain set of expectations. FF and Twitter started out open, people signed on to those two with different expectations. It's like why no one (reasonably) complains the bus is public but would complain if their taxi started picking up a bunch of other passengers midway - the rules changed midstream, to the detriment of the existing users. - Andrew C (✔)
Oh wow - now Facebook is being compared to the Nazis? Really??? Except you don't have to be on Facebook. The Germans had no choice. I wish those with problems would just kill their accounts and stop complaining. This is getting ridiculous. - Jesse Stay
BTW, I think most of the Facebook team would take serious offense to that Nazi comment - Jesse Stay
Here is another "everything you ever do with/on the Internet is pretty much public" counter-example: Online Dating. Do you want all of your "dating graph" (any profile you ever checked out, messaged, etc.) made public? Yes, there is no absolute expectation of privacy - e.g. vis-a-vis the state/law/etc., but I doubt too many people would have started using these services if the companies had said: BTW, we will eventually make all of this information public or semi-public. - Alex Schleber
Alex, personally, I don't have a problem with that, but I live a boring life. Again, don't use Facebook or a dating site if you have a problem with it. - Jesse Stay
FWIW, those things get exposed all the time - Jesse Stay
...and yes, I agree that one should think twice about posting/using anything on the Web, but that doesn't mean all privacy questions are a binary decision. Just because someone can get to certain information somehow, is NOT the same as a company shoveling it out the door with all hands on deck... as is now the case with FB "Open" Graph. - Alex Schleber
Jesse - will you please *stop* saying "or a dating site if you have a problem with it"! FB started as a private way to share personal information *by design* and then it changed how it works. If FB would let me delete my account and *my data* then I would have done that the first time they changed how things work. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bear, why can't you delete your Facebook account? It's quite simple. Do it, so long as you stop complaining. - Jesse Stay
Wow. - Derrick
Alex, have you ever seen the information Google has on you? Google has much more than Facebook right now, and you probably don't even know it. - Jesse Stay
@jesse - i'm not complaining about anything except the pious holier than thou way you keep saying "hey, if you post in public you get what you get" while completely ignoring how the rules got changed under the FB users feet. PLUS you can't DELETE an account - it just gets "deactivated" and all of the data remains. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bear, no rules were changed since December. Features added, yes, but nothing changed. BTW, I'm pretty sure you can delete your account entirely. If not, they can't do anything with the data after you cancel, at least per the terms (only thing they can do is keep it on your friends' news feeds, which I think makes for a much better experience). - Jesse Stay
Evidently this is a holy war now - Jesse Stay
Expectations are fine but times change, facebook started three years before twitter and the only content they have required to be public is your name, profile photo, gender, list of friends and pages you are a fan of (like). They did it using a very public method that forced *everyone* to review and double check their settings and they told you they were migrating to the more public... more... - Chris Myles
Jesse, I was merely referring to Chris' use of "they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way", to which you agreed. As in: that alone isn't a freaking criterion for anything. - Alex Schleber
I wonder if Paul regrets making this particular thought public? :P - Carter ♥ JS
Chris, amen - Jesse Stay
Bear, you can either delete or deactivate. Here's the link to delete: https://ssl.facebook.com/help... - Rochelle
Alex, I was giving kudos to Paul.. I'm impressed, it's powerful. I also don't feel my trust has been violated because I kept up with the privacy changes (http://www.eff.org/deeplin...). I'm looking for people who are ready to move forward (http://friendfeed.com/chrismy...).. I remember these exact arguments last year, I'm ready to move on!! - Chris Myles
Jesse: To some people, not using Facebook is like withdrawing from society. - Gabe
Carter, I am glad he did, this needs to be discussed. I just hope he's been working on FB messaging platform, and therefore doesn't have full visibility to what Zuck has cooked up here. The true implications of this likely won't be apparent for another 1-3 years. I really do hope that Paul's/Jesse's et al. best-case-scenario, optimistic view actually comes to pass. But I'm not holding my breath either. - Alex Schleber
exactly Gabe, the "people can just leave" argument is getting pretty naive at this point. See here: http://alexschleber.amplify.com/2010... - Alex Schleber
Gabe, in that case, just be careful what you put online. If you're that paranoid, kill your account. Heck, kill your internet connection. There is no such thing as perfect privacy. - Jesse Stay
Jesse, please stop the "perfect privacy" straw man argument. There is no perfect anything, so does that mean we can't have an opinion? - Alex Schleber
Jesse: Also, I recall from a movie or TV show trailer a few days ago: "You're being paranoid. That's what someone says right before they betray you...". Frankly, it's also a not-so-thinly-veiled insult as well, since you are referring to us per a DSM-IV diagnosable mental disorder criterion. Just saying... - Alex Schleber
Alex, you may have an opinion, but your argument on Facebook doesn't make sense if you think your privacy can never be exposed. Same goes for Google, Gmail, Orkut, Private Twitter accounts, or any other service where privacy is expected. These things are exposed all the time, often without you knowing - that's a fact of life. Don't put it online if you don't want it exposed. All the complaining and opinions in the world won't stop that. - Jesse Stay
Alex, sorry but to think that nothing will EVER change is also naive.. I think we've all gone a little extreme to make our points. There is nothing wrong with strong opinions and even expectations but there HAS to be a balance. facebook has done a reasonable job considering they have a microscope us their a$$ and not everyone will be happy with their changes. - Chris Myles
CW, come on - so you're offended that your name, gender, city, network, and friends same info are exposed as you browse the web? Nothing else is exposed, unless you opted in. - Jesse Stay
Oh, and the fact that you "liked" it, but that too is opt-in - Jesse Stay
Google has a really good position paper on opt-in vs opt-out http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/ahrc.... (if anyone is interested). - Chris Myles
"dont put it online if you dont want it exposed" - that is both fair and unfair. True - the only 100% privacy is if you never share anything but that's hardly useful. I think people are entitled to feel that a breach of some covenant has happened when something that used to be under our control (who gets to see what) gets changed and taken out of our control, and automatically shared... more... - Iphigenie
Maybe it would help if Fb had a feature that showed the list of people who had access to what information and why. That way I could say "If I click 'Like' on this post, who will be able to tell", and decide right then if it was worth clicking. - Gabe
Jesse, that's simply not true. When I went to the settings page I have a screenshot of here: http://alexschleber.posterous.com/this-is... ALL of those options were CHECKED by default. And FB has hidden this most important "what my friends can propagate about me" setting 2 layers deep... - Alex Schleber
First, kudos for Paul & Facebook insiders who *dialog* publicly about the elephant in the room. BUT, bottom line: Privacy as normative bait & switch and opt-out settings. Apple gets lauded for 'Hardware-Software That Just Works'; if a modicum of evidence existed that FB has the ethos of 'Privacy That Just Works', there would be more support from the tech-competent and Facebook-history aware public (a small, but influential slice of the whole). - Micah
CW, they told you about the changes and even forced you to accept LAST NOV/DEC (see link above). Are you a fan of the site governance page (which announces future changes to get voted on)? If you don't feel comfortable what are you doing using the tool? - Chris Myles
Although I agree with Paul that it should not be that big a deal that he chose to make his profile fully public (with tiny exceptions) to people - that has never been the problem for me, and I found the flexibility of sharing to a list only to be mostly a matter of courtesy (dont bore school friend with technical shares, or the wrong language) rather than privacy (I always treated it as... more... - Iphigenie
Alex, Did you take a screen shot last Nov/Dec? both of those settings were available for your review then http://www.cynicsunlimited.com/2009.... - Chris Myles
And, provincial as it may be, I'm looking to Josh's dramatic reading of this thread. (**Special Mention**: GO TEAM BBQ!) #JoshHaley #DramaticReadingBOD - Micah
that's it, i'm off to chop peppers in farmville ;) - Iphigenie
OK so obviously there has been a HUGE uproar about this last year and again now.. I've had messages from friends on facebook warning of the dangers and facebook has publicly stated they are trending toward the public social norm.. I was in the middle of no where for 5.5 years and I knew what was going on with facebook. We can't second guess and protect everyone.. but messages were... more... - Chris Myles
I'm just going to let Chris fight this for me - he's doing a great job. I'm behind you all the way Chris! :-) (and I totally agree) - Jesse Stay
But yeah - even my Mom asked me about the changes last Nov/Dec - Jesse Stay
Sorry Jesse, I'm on my last legs here. Privacy, expectations, trust and comfort are all VERY personal and people have to make their own choice!! Don't like (trust,respect) it.. leave. Worried everything will become public someday.. don't share private things. Double check your settings, ask questions, read every future dialog/message and assume future features will default to public sharing.. that's what I'm doing (and have always done). Facebook and me.. we're good! - Chris Myles
Chris, I am too - none of this uproar makes sense to me, but I'm losing energy to fight it. As Otto said, the privacy uproar is getting boring. - Jesse Stay
and that is why I am so glad you are not on the Facebook team dealing with Privacy - the fact that you find something that others find important as boring and not worth discussing. The issue boils down to what a reasonable/non-guru user of FB can expect in regard to their privacy and the answer is that they can only expect FB to change things without notice and to continue to make things opt-in that used to be off by default. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bear, it's not that I don't find it boring - I find the fact that we're repeating ourselves over and over again boring and the fact that people like you keep spreading false information like "you can't delete your account" boring. - Jesse Stay
I wasn't spreading false information, I was stating my opinion and it was corrected. At the time I last looked at my FB, which was the last time they changed privacy defaults, I could not fully delete it. Now I find you can - so for the folks who come to me for help with computer stuff I can point them to that page if they want. Me personally, I live in this bleeding-edge world and know how to deal with it. A lot of the points I raise are proxy items from the folks who look to me for help. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
I thought you got to choose what you enter into Facebook. Phone numbers and addresses and which school you went to etc... Most profiles I have set up for people have been set and forget. Either all closed, friends of friends or open. - Johnny from iPhone
Bear, also, since December, Facebook hasn't changed any previous privacy settings. They've added features since, but your privacy hasn't changed. - Jesse Stay from iPhone
Jesse - the impact of what was left as a default value changed. I say that as a casual user because people are finding me via FB that were not finding me previously via my network and city settings. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bear, and you still have the option to opt out if you think it's a bigger impact. Everyone was notified 6 months ago exactly what was public and what was private. - Jesse Stay from iPhone
The minimal information exposed really isn't that big an impact though, I don't think. - Jesse Stay from iPhone
again, can you read what i'm saying ... I went into the settings 6 months ago and opted out of a lot of things and now I went back into it and items are now appearing with more options to select than were previously available. So the net change may be giving me more choice but some of the default values were tweaked to a more public view than I expected. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Facebook even sent out an email notifying people - Jesse Stay from iPhone
Jesse, do you think the fact that you are in a part a FB developer (through SocialToo, other?) may taint your point of view here a bit? Are all those people worried about aspects of this (Scoble, Om, various Google developers, etc. etc.), are we all "paranoid"? BTW, I haven't said one thing about account deletion. - Alex Schleber
Jesse I think often forgets that as a FB dev he often sees these changes long before others and has an fuller mental skeleton of what the interactions are than the "normal" user (IMO) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bear, I deal with the normal user more than I do developer. Most normal users don't care. - Jesse Stay
Jesse, BTW, the settings from 6 months ago (I for one overlooked the "What your friends can share about you through applications and websites" settings, and I am at least semi-savvy on this sort of thing) don't mean much, because ***THEN we didn't know that the entire thing was going to be shared with every possible site out there implementing "Open" Graph with a few copy&pastes.*** If the same stuff was already discoverable through Facebook Connect, then I missed that, ... - Alex Schleber
Jesse - then we inhabit totally different realms of "normal" - by far everyone who I deal with is hating on FB for these changes :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Alex, yes, you missed that - Jesse Stay
Bear, are those you deal with primarily in Silicon Valley? ;-) - Jesse Stay
Jesse - actually no - I live on the east coast and in a rurally conservative area. as far away from Silicon Valley as my job allows :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
... AND of course a lot fewer sites implemented FBConnect (because it was harder), showing up on a site required login with FBC there instead of it being automatic as it is now. Etc. - Alex Schleber
Alex, actually, name, location, gender, profile pic were all available without login via FB Connect before - Jesse Stay
Yes, but what about Interests, Religious orientation, etc. etc. ?!? - Alex Schleber
Alex, and tens of thousands of sites were implementing FB Connect as that information was available - Jesse Stay
Alex, that info isn't available as public by default right now - Jesse Stay
"right now" - that's the battle we're all fighting - for people that care about these things, we can't promise that it will remain any certain way - Christopher Galtenberg
And don't forget the raising of the 24-Hour limit on keeping data going away. That is a bit of a change, no? - Alex Schleber
FYI From Nov's update "Information set to “everyone” is publicly available information, may be accessed by everyone on the Internet (including people not logged into Facebook), is subject to indexing by third party search engines, may be associated with you outside of Facebook (such as when you visit other sites on the internet), and may be imported and exported by us and others without... more... - Chris Myles
Christopher, Facebook hasn't made any moves to signify that will be changing any time soon. Not sure what you're getting at. - Jesse Stay
(Christopher G) - Jesse Stay
"any time soon" <- that - Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher, you can say the same about any other company that holds your data - still not sure what you're getting at - Jesse Stay
Yes you do - Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher, no I don't (???) - Jesse Stay
I really hope that Zuckerberg turns out to be a benign dictator... - Alex Schleber
Alex, :) me too! - Chris Myles
Wow - Jesse Stay
Re: benign http://www.businessinsider.com/10-reas... - sorry if I'm trolling, just my friend graph can't stop talking about this - Christopher Galtenberg
Look we can't even talk about what has happened, let alone what might. I trust they will give me notice of future changes and no I'm NOT naive. - Chris Myles
Chris, yeah - they haven't violated my trust, yet. - Jesse Stay
Oh great - now Louis Gray shared this on Twitter. Are we going to have to repeat this again? ;-) - Jesse Stay
Christopher, you should read some of the comments on the original post here http://www.rocket.ly/home.... Personally I have no tolerance for overly sensationalized blog posts, I like to make decisions based on facts!! - Chris Myles
Jesse, because you've essentially said you have no trust. (don't put anything online you don't want broadcast). Most FB users were led to believe they *could* trust FB with personal information. - Tinfoil 2.0 from iPhone
LogEx, I haven't said that either. I feel like I can trust Facebook. - Jesse Stay
I read the comments. I'm saying that my FB graph is abuzz about the article, and my friend count is dropping. The article matches the sentiment about FB perfectly. That's what matters, not that point #9 is invalid (it is). - Christopher Galtenberg
If FB allowed for a permanent "opt-out of public data until I say otherwise" that NEVER had to be revised whenever a new feature came along, some of the privacy complaints would be moot. However, this goes against FB's business interest of trying to have it be a more public system(as is alluded to in this thread). - George S.
Looks like it's me, Jesse and Paul :) - Chris Myles
Regardless, a great deal of data is also shared by various FB apps (e.g. when the user gets the dialog requesting that data is shared). This is a backdoor into their "private" data, so to be truly private you'd have to opt-out of many FB apps as well (unless they changed their policies). - George S.
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*sigh* - this is going in a loop - Jesse Stay
Jesse, you said "Don't put it online if you don't want it exposed" in this thread and similar statements in other forums. It's fine if you personally trust FB with your info, particularly since you don't seem to acknowledge that there are valid reasons for people to want and need privacy in their online interactions. But millions of other users don't feel that way, and have been and... more... - Tinfoil 2.0
The fact that there is so much controversy in this thread (and many others like it) are: (1) people want things from Facebook that Facebook no longer delivers; (2) it's difficult to know (particularly for laypeople who don't follow every little move like we all do) what exactly happens with your data and what may happen in the future. - Tinfoil 2.0
LogEx. Can you totally lock down your account. Is it possible? - Johnny from iPhone
LogEx, that was in response to people paranoid about the existing Facebook privacy preferences. If you have a problem with your name, city, profile picture, and network being exposed, best not to put anything online. Nothing has changed from Facebook. - Jesse Stay
Johnny, NO, it is no longer possible. It used to be. - Tinfoil 2.0
Johnny, your name, city, profile picture, network, and friends will always be visible. Everything else (assuming you don't like anything) can be locked down. - Jesse Stay
LogEx, that's only part of the story - you seem to have an agenda - share what I shared if you want to share the whole story. - Jesse Stay
Before November, the only thing required to be public were your Name and Networks. Friend List, Pages, and "Connections" can be very sensitive. People were brought up in Facebook believing that they had a private place if they wished to interact with friends and family. - Tinfoil 2.0
LogEx, that is correct, and they sent you an e-mail notifying you that was changing. That is the only thing that has changed in years. - Jesse Stay
Jesse, my agenda is, and always has been simple: maximize choice for users so that they can be AS public or AS private as they wish. - Tinfoil 2.0
LogEx, Facebook is *all about* choice. Lock 'er down. The only info exposed is what I listed above. Do you really have a problem with that? - Jesse Stay
Try getting as granular as you can with Facebook on Google or Twitter - you can't. - Jesse Stay
Also note that even Twitter private profiles expose more information than what Facebook does by default. - Jesse Stay
Jesse, part of this issue is trust. FB has a reputation problem, which the "only thing that his changed in years" has a lot to do with. It's a very significant change. Additionally, that "granularity" is both a blessing and a curse. Is there a "One Button" privacy feature? Because some people don't WANT granular. - George S.
Google knows remarkably little about me, due to the way their services are architected and due to the tools they provide. And, yes, I do have a problem with Facebook steadily removing privacy choices in Nov/Dec and again in April. People are now forced to share more. You can no longer "lock 'er down". - Tinfoil 2.0
George, one privacy change in 3 years is a pretty good reputation. - Jesse Stay
LogEx, I think you're naive in thinking that Google knows little about you - Jesse Stay
I don't think that logic is meaningful, because it's a pretty fundamental policy change - George S.
George, everyone has had the opportunity to delete their Facebook account if they choose. It's not a whole lot of information they exposed. Also, the entire Facebook population was given the opportunity to debate the change, as Facebook allows for any policy change. A very insignificant amount of people did. - Jesse Stay
FWIW, even before the change there was info, such as your profile pic and name that were exposed to the public - that has always been the case. - Jesse Stay
I'm not being at all naive Jesse. I use multiple Google accounts and have never populated any Google profiles with real world information about myself. I won't bore you with other details about how I manage my relationship with Google. - Tinfoil 2.0
LogEx, you are definitely not the normal user then - Jesse Stay
Also, "It's not a whole lot of information they exposed" - shouldn't that really be for each user to decide? Not all half billion users are privileged white males who don't have to worry about nuances of what might get exposed about their interactions with friends and family (and around the web). - Tinfoil 2.0
LogEx, you're on the web, on a social network that gets indexed by search engines - delete your account if you don't like that. I think it's a rather paranoid move if you're really bothered by that, though. Google and Twitter expose default information about you as well. - Jesse Stay
pain = (user-count * new-feature-impact ^ trust-involved). Everyone for or against any certain social network or policy knows that. Another axiom: The fans of the network in question will always act blinkered; the antagonists will still use the network within 60 minutes. - Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher, you are exactly correct - Jesse Stay
I think this argument isn't really about "default" information. Any service where you identify as a "real" person requires you to share this information. Though it is worth noting that Facebook expects you use your real name, while other services (i.e. Twitter) allow for more anonymity if you so choose. - George S.
George, what is this argument about then? I've lost track. - Jesse Stay
Yes, George S. makes an excellent point. Google and Twitter absolutely do not require your real world identity. Facebook collected hoardes of private real world identity info, THEN declared that much of that was being forced public (or coerced through UI). - Tinfoil 2.0
LogEx, you're sidetracking the fact that your name has been public for quite some time now - Jesse Stay
(goes to look up the default information listed in I'm on Facebook--Now What??? back in 2007) - Jesse Stay
This betrayal of trust shows two things: 1) FB is afraid of losing the real-time search content to Twitter and 2) Zuckerberg has learned *nothing* from the Beacon disaster. - Dave Hodson
Dave, what betrayal of trust? - Jesse Stay
Feels like he's repeating himself --> - Jesse Stay
Jesse: betrayal of trust -- users expect their data to be private. Pulling a fast one on them with new "default" settings that remove privacy setting is a betrayal. - Dave Hodson
Understands why Paul has given up on this conversation --> - Jesse Stay
Because you are not listening to the valid concerns of others. - Tinfoil 2.0
Dave, nothing fast has been pulled - read my comments above - Jesse Stay
Jesse: I have a teenage relative. I went through this person's profile and was shocked what the "suggested" defaults now expose to the world. - Dave Hodson
2 of the key privacy concerns on FB are more about 1) change from default-private to default-public, 2) How your other information is used by 3rd parties (e.g. Apps, etc., like when the app asks to share your info). In #2, most people just blindly "Allow". But they don't really know what they might be sharing, or to whom. - George S.
LogEx, I've heard it all - none of it is making sense. No privacy settings were removed this time around. - Jesse Stay
George, there has *always* been information available as public - Jesse Stay
They absolutely were changed in April via Connections. - Tinfoil 2.0
Jesse, I don't think you're grasping what I'm saying. - George S.
In 2007 they made all profiles on Facebook indexable by Google, to the extent of your name and some other small information (I'll look it up when I get home) - Jesse Stay
From another FF conversation: "The best privacy setting of all is yourself." Only give FB what you want to show up on CNN.com. Which for me is pretty much nothing now. - Christopher Galtenberg
LogEx what was changed? - Jesse Stay
Christopher, I agree with that - Jesse Stay
Jesse - perhaps you don't agree with my thoughts, but at least agree that there is negative sentiment out there about this and FB hasn't done a good job of clarifying changes. - Dave Hodson
Dave, your thoughts are 100% incorrect - it's not that I don't agree. It's that they're completely false. - Jesse Stay
Jesse - wow, that is really funny. I don't know that I've ever been 100% incorrect before. Glad you have an open mind on this topic. - Dave Hodson
LogEx, you were given the opportunity to opt out of connections. If you don't like it, kill it. - Jesse Stay
Right, delete large sections of profile because FB no longer allows you to share them privately. That sounds like a great feature. - Tinfoil 2.0
Dave, you're not listening to me - your information has pretty much always been available as public. When did you first create your Facebook account? - Jesse Stay
Name and Networks have historically been the only things public. - Tinfoil 2.0
LogEx, then delete your Facebook profile if you don't like that. You have plenty of choice. Nothing is being taken away from you. - Jesse Stay
LogEx, you are correct. - Jesse Stay
Jesse, that's what you don't get. The point is that FB has been steadily removing choices. - Tinfoil 2.0
Jesse - I'm listening, I'm just 100% incorrect - Dave Hodson
Dave, exactly - Jesse Stay
Delete your profile = choice? - Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher, yup, that's still choice if you're offended by that little information being shared about you. Are you really *that* reliant on Facebook? - Jesse Stay
FB has become so so insistent at removing choices at the privacy end of the spectrum while boosting choices at the publicity end. To deny that people have at least as much need of privacy as they do of publicity is naive and dangerous. - Tinfoil 2.0
These things are tools - if they're not useful any more, don't use them. - Jesse Stay
LogEx, "*so* insistent" - 2 times in the last 3 years? - Jesse Stay
Sorry, my cut-and-paste typo. - Tinfoil 2.0
We know what you're saying, Jesse. Thanks for representing. And actually, am about to find out how dependent I am/was -- interested to see. - Christopher Galtenberg
The more you apologize for what everyone is trying to tell you is wrong, the more guilty you look. Stop apologizing for Facebook, Jesse. People shared who their real friends were, using their real names, and even tagged pictures of their kids, because they were told it would be safe and private. Now that hundreds of millions of people are locked in, Facebook is forcing its "privacy doesn't exist" model on them. It's fucked up and you know it. - Mr. Gunn
I don't have a problem with the changes in privacy settings (and I'm a lot more paranoid about privacy then Paul is). I DO care about the "pre-approved data sharing" though. I don't want CNN to be able to link the stories I read with my real name because I'm concerned about the potential to link me-as-a-real-person to a profile based on news stories I read. - Nick Lothian
One might be quite happy to walk down the beach with a wife or daughter, knowing that a handful of people might be looking at them lasciviously. Having someone collect pictures of them and a lot of private data under the false pretence of privacy and trust and then start sharing them around is a different thing entirely. The word pimp springs to mind. IMHO of course. - Jan Simmonds
+1 Mr. Gunn. Wow, quite the conversation while I was gone. I agree with @Zee much further up: I miss the old Friendfeed conversation days...FF was never the same after the buy-out shock. "Damn you Zuckerberg for siphoning off the FF team to slave away in the FB salt mines"... - Alex Schleber
See also: Facebook’s Paul Buchheit ***justifies*** increasing openness, less privacy http://social.venturebeat.com/2010... - Alex Schleber
Paul, For starters - both FriendFeed and Twitter have not changed their privacy policy as frequently and as ominously as Facebook has. :( And, I DON'T WANT ALL OF MY FRIENDS TO KNOW WHAT I AM DOING ON THE WEB - GOD DAMN IT. :) - Space Cowboy
Alex, you have an incredible talent for spinning context and slicing and dicing a conversation to *amplify* your point of view. Did you read the post you linked to? It says the exact same thing as the one Paul linked to above.. and there was no justification, just Paul's reasons for opening up his settings. I'm sure he's quite comfortable given his friendfeed history, it doesn't mean you or anyone else has to be!! - Chris Myles
I watch "best of day" emails from FriendFeed every day and this is the first one that got me excited about coming into FriendFeed for more than the past month. Is FriendFeed coming back? This thread shows it has the potential to. - Robert Scoble
Robert, While you're here.. what are your thoughts? - Chris Myles
People realizing that FB is basically a public network now should actually consider the best open public sharing network: this one. - Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher, there is *nothing* better than friendfeed (for me). - Chris Myles
Agreed - feels like a secret that people are yet to wake up to - almost everything good you want to do on the web you can do here (share, save, learn, filter, search, group, like, nudge, chat, dialogue) - Christopher Galtenberg
I even use private groups with *great* success! - Chris Myles
The real issue here, is that it's only us geeks that know there's a real facebook privacy issue OR give a shit. Most "normal" people have no idea their "private" info is wide open or that Zuck's constantly changing the rules of the game. That said, no one's forced to use FB. BTW: I'm 99.9% certain Zuck's gonna get away with this bait & switch bullshit. - Jim Connolly
Oh - and Friendfeed is MASSIVELY better than Facebook. - Jim Connolly
Been on-line since 1989, for someone who wants your information, there is no such thing as private information in a community environment. - Justin Hitt
1UP Jim. - Derrick
Chris, 1) of course I read the post I linked to, and apparently VentureBeat came away with a similar impression, that Paul's forays on this stuff have a tinge of "justifying." Look, it's OK, in the end FB can & will do whatever it wants, it's just that this strange "what privacy issues?" sermonizing is giving me the willies. Too much FB kool-aid already. And there seem to be a lot of other people on this thread who have similar feelings. - Alex Schleber
Justin, there's no such thing as an unstealable car either, but that doesn't invalidate the purpose of door locks. - Micah
... 2) I whole-heartedly agree that FF still rules, even though there has been no development in nearly a year, which is shocking if you think about it. I really wish FB hadn't bought these guys out, they could have done much better work here FASTER. Hey, money is money. After the buy-out, things went all emo on here though...so it hadn't been particularly useful for tech discussions. Nothing wrong with how the remaining folks use it, but that had never been my use case. - Alex Schleber
3) I am very happy to see that despite out differences, we can all still agree on Friendfeed being a superior solution. It's a shame that Google hasn't done a better job with Buzz (why is frankly beyond me), they could have done a FF++ and things would have been gravy... - Alex Schleber
4) BTW Scoble seems to be of two minds about it, he knows what FB is up to (and has argued that pretty much nothing can be done about it anymore), but also likes spying on other people's musical tastes on Pandora, etc. :) He gets "great value from that"... - Alex Schleber
Robert Scoble: FriendFeed is growing slowly. It's not a big-audience site like you're looking for, but it's still a place for great discussions. - Bruce Lewis
Bruce, that may be true but Robert's stated time and time again that he prefers tech-oriented discussions over anything else. Once he couldn't successfully get tech people to commit to FriendFeed, he wandered back to Twitter... or was it Buzz? Maybe it was Facebook. I can't remember. - Akiva
Don't you mean: FF is slowly returning to what it used to be. - Roberto Bonini
And honestly, I'm mostly with him on that. I miss the early days of FriendFeed when it was 80% tech and 20% LOLcats. Now it's 80% drama and 20% LOLcats. - Akiva
Akiva: And 72% statistics that are made up on the spot (18.15573% of which are unnecessarily precise). - Stephen Mack from iPhone
LOLs @Stephen. In this debate, statistics mean very little. - Roberto Bonini
Akiva, if you're seeing too much drama, you're too hesitant to click Hide. - Bruce Lewis
Some REAL good points being made here! - Jim Connolly
Bruce, to know which threads need hiding, I have to see them first. - Akiva
There aren't enough drama posts to make anyone's feed 80% drama by virtue of seeing them once. The only way to have an 80% drama experience here is to let them keep popping back up. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo
Oh. You took my percentages seriously. Probably not a good idea. - Akiva
Joking is fine. I just want to make sure people reading this thread understand that you can get whatever flavor of conversation you want out of FriendFeed, percentage-wise. Absolute quantities are limited, but that can be a good thing. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo
Bruce, you're being Apple to Akiva's DeGeneres. :) - Micah
Micah, that's cool! Tomorrow Akiva is going to get on his show, apologize, and talk at length about what a fan he is of me and things I make. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo
Then you both win. - Micah
Can I high-five Akiva now, or do I have to act mad until after the apology? - Bruce Lewis from fftogo
Robert, I haven't had to mute a thread in a long time - maybe you're right ;-) - Jesse Stay
I have no clue what you people are talking about any longer. - Akiva
me neither Akiva - i just came to post that "i saved a ton of money by switch my car insurance to Geico" ;) (not really, they stink) - Jeff (Team マクダジ )
Akiva, Micah was saying that I took your joke too seriously the way Apple took a DeGeneres joke too seriously. It was a nice way to ask me to lighten up. I complied by jokingly taking his analogy too far. Of course, explaining all this makes the joke 80% less effective. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo
Ah. But it makes me 20% less clueless now. - Akiva
Pay attention. We are talking about BBQ. OMGWTFBBQ. - Laura Norvig
You took his what seriously on the *internet*? - Christopher Galtenberg
For all of you self righteous privacy advocates out there, nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use Facebook! In case you all are not aware, you can choose what info to include in your profile, nobody is forcing you to enter your phone #, etc... You can even use a fake name if you'd like. You can choose what people can see what info, the tools are there to setup your account pretty much any way they want to - Brian from FFHound!
"self righteous privacy advocates" - you couldn't be more illuminating, Brian - Christopher Galtenberg
disrepute and shifty ethics: the FF/FB model of selling out & "professionalism"; this can surely be just more lip service "From Facebook, answering privacy concerns with new settings" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn... - sofarsoShawn
Scoble, Alex Scoble
As far as I'm concerned, the periodic table of elements is one of the most elegant scientific constructs ever devised by man
Heh, actually you can take the word scientific out of that sentence and it would still be true. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
I feel the same way about the synthesis of sugar, butter, eggs and flour and their proper ratios and the final result: pound cake. - Derrick
The best designs are too rarely identified as great design. How often does Tufte laud the Periodic Table? - Kevin Fox
Actually, you can thank God for the elegance of how the number of valence electrons affects the interactions between elements and how their number is limited to 8 :) - Kevin L
I've always been partial to Minard's map of Napoleon's march. First saw it in Tufte's book (it came with the book, as a poster). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... and http://www.csiss.org/classic... - Betsy
Yeah, an attorney at the law firm that I worked at a few years back had that on his wall. It's a good thing that Hitler didn't have it on his wall during WWII. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
How much of the elegance is pure design, and how much of it is the fact that it maps physical reality really well? - Victor Ganata
I don't think you can separate out the two, Victor. Avogadro's number is the height of elegance defined, in my opinion. 6.022 x 10 to the 23 FTW! - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Minard is literally the poster child for information visualization, but for practical purposes the Periodic Table is used by tens of thousands pf people every day to understand the world around us. Minard's chart of Napoleon's march is a nice piece for understanding a historical event, but its scope is so limited that it's used far more as a design example than it is for the purpose it was designed for. - Kevin Fox
What about The Standard Model? - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
I don't know enough about it to make an opinion, Roberto, but there's plenty of room at the top. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
To be fair, as elegant as it is, the Standard Model of particle physics probably isn't used as much as the periodic table by non-specialists. - Victor Ganata
Alex: You're so periodic and you don't know it ;) - Jim Connolly
Louis Gray
10 Reasons To Delete Your Facebook Account - http://www.businessinsider.com/10-reas...
The momentum behind people deleting their Facebook account continues to grow. I've never seen so many people choose this option after other changes at the network. - Louis Gray
Quite happy that i don't even have a FB account. - Roberto Bonini
I only need one reason - privacy - Sally Church
Sally: +1 - Jim Connolly
Like I keep trying to tell you, Louis, living in public is for you social media experts, not for real people. ;) - Dawn
Argh. Dawn just called me an SME! Blocked! :) - Louis Gray
there's nothing in my facebook account that i would not put also on twitter or friendfeed, except the audience there would be less interested. i just wish Zynga would stop emailing me - i never said ok. - Iphigenie
Agree with Joelle. - Ashalynd from fftogo
Okay, Louis, you're a social media dunce. Does that win you back? :) - Dawn
Yes, we're good now, Dawn. Thanks! - Louis Gray
I'm just there for the games ;) - WarLord
I'm there for the poking - sofarsoShawn from iPhone
Another reason for people to focus on their blog/build their own community vs a social network.. my 2cents - Wayne Sutton
Don't put anything on FB you wouldn't post on a bilboard outside your mom's church ;) - WarLord
I wonder what the other 99.9999% of people who don't care think. - Johnny
+1 Johnny. These are the same people that scream out when 0.01% of Toyotas had recall issues, yet they called out for outright revolt and protest of the purchase of Toyota vehicles. Frustrating. They all need a "jump to conclusions" mat. - Nathan Chase
umm but the brakes failed and people died and FB is being deceptive so is it jumping to conclusions or are the people not concerned clueless - WarLord
Give me the skinny on what has changed. In terms I can explain to my mum. - Johnny
I simply dont like to use a site that makes its privacy settings so opaque. There being multiple layers of privacy settings isnt userfriendly for novices, either. I've not deleted, but I've stripped it down, and have walked famiy and friends through doing the same. - ωαřмaiden ❤Bassetmom❤
"Hey, I only killed 6 people!! There are billions of people in the world I didn't kill. And 99.999999% of people don't care at all what I did, anyway. So why are you getting so mad at me? You're the one with the problem. Geez." - Dawn
There is a difference between responsibly reporting the deaths of 6 people and the mass hysteria THE SKY IS FALLING which I see the author of this post trying to whip up. - Johnny
But, still, if I don't change my account settings, what am I exposing myself too? Facts, not scare-mongering - Johnny
Johnny basically everything you said could be viewed by EVERYONE (including applications, public search engines and websites) can be passed to websites and stored forever, just like they already detailed back in Nov (http://www.eff.org/deeplin...). - Chris Myles
I just wonder why people are up in arms that people that are your friends (designated by you) have the ability to see what music you like at someplace other than Facebook (like Pandora). Why does this bother you? You wrote or chose to signify your taste for this music, and to share that with others. What benefit do you receive when sharing that information within a closed wall? You might as well tell your cat you like U2. You'll get the same level of reaction. - Nathan Chase
You're right my cat doesn't care about my music, my dog OTOH... - WarLord
Yeah, they've added some power and usefulness to those EVERYONE settings and now they says the sky is falling. You don't have to click like or even use facebook .. I'm excited to see what developers come up with. - Chris Myles
Personally, I have no problem at all with my information becoming public. But I'm really unusual that way, and I definitely expect the trend to continue. The reason I'm considering going away from facebook is the game and advertisement plague... but that would only be curable by an administrator- and corporate- free social network, and nobody has invented the technology to make that work just yet. - Nathaniel Thurston
Leo LaPorte has some great conversations around this issue on last week's TWiG and TWiT casts. I've seriously cut back my sharing of stuff on FB after listening to those shows; my profile is nearly empty now. - Jim: with more caffeine!
why do you join a *social* network to be private? that's my question... - Nathan Chase
Amber, you can still tell your friends in a non-Public post just don't press the public like button! - Chris Myles
Why do "Privacy is dead" variants get run up the flag pole every time criticism is focused on the use or misuse of information. I'm sure Gizmodo will be happy when the mantra levels up to "property title is dead", but until then my fire hose is pointed at the privacy flames. - Micah
If someone wants to display that I read a magazine on a billboard, that's pretty cool! Where do I sign up for that service? - Nathan Chase
@Blu T - No. If I were in those situations, I would stay off social networks in the first place. - Nathan Chase
Nathan, I'm glad we still live in free enough society where you can choose to have that level of publicity *if you want it*. What many of those of us who are concerned are lamenting is the forced removal of choices at the other end of the spectrum. - Tinfoil 2.0
The best privacy setting of all is yourself. Period. - Martha
Martha - yes! - Nathan Chase
True, but it's kind of sad that due to the monopoly Facebook has on the regular people social graph, you have to choose to not participate if you don't want to live in Facebook's glass house, rather than Facebook simply continue offer real choice for users who may need or want it. - Tinfoil 2.0
Still, no one has claimed what exactly they're needing to keep private and why. The only instance I've heard that made sense were because of the ignorance of outside groups (insurance companies claiming change of conditions based on inaccurate Facebook photographic "evidence" and teachers who are unable to post anything that's outside of the undocumented scope of "decency" dictated at random by school boards) - I still contend, that in both of these instances, you'd be wise to not take part. - Nathan Chase
Social graph itself can be sensitive... that's exactly why Google Buzz had such an uproar upon launch. Note though that at least they fixed it very quickly. Pages and "Connections" can also be quite sensitive. - Tinfoil 2.0
Amber, Tomorrow is tomorrow.. I follow the Site Governance board http://www.facebook.com/fbsiteg... and when I get uncomfortable I'll leave. To date I haven't found anything that hasn't been made public without my knowledge. Now you can even use the new API to check your settings http://zesty.ca/facebook/. - Chris Myles
I'm not gonna try to convince anyone to stay on FB. If you wanna go, go. I used the zesty.ca app to check what's public for me and TBH I'm quite OK with it. - LANjackal
...checking out the zesty.ca app. Useful - .LAG liked that
zesty.ca shows nothing for me, empty or error on every set - dont think i can rely on that - Iphigenie
Joelle: Basically everything under "metadata" is private (except maybe your picture, if it shows up). Zesty's useful but it's also irresponsible in that there's not much indication of what the results mean - LANjackal
Between the farms and the mafia wars and the "top news"......It's called TRUSTING someone/company too much - Deleted
FriendFeed has a strong case to make for being an open network that doesn't violate any privacy (because it doesn't collect personal data). But there's an issue about its new owners... Argh. - Christopher Galtenberg
Isn't "socializing" the core idea behind "social networking"? In that sense, sharing personal information on any platform like Facebook is a significant part of it (regardless of the fact whether you are a real person or just an avatar) . The ethical policy of Facebook is surely a subject to discuss, but I don't capture how and why 'sharing information via a public profile' is becoming a part of this discussion, since this is all about how social networking itself is evolving. - özge
The whole question is: can a user define a permanent and inviolable set of private data on an otherwise public and open/social network? - Christopher Galtenberg
permanent and inviolable *forever* .. No! but a user must be notified when changes are made and it's up to them to decide if the value/benefit is worth more than the effort required to keep up with those changes! ex: assuming everything will someday be public (and sharing appropriately) is easier than monitoring/testing each release and reading every dialog to understand what is happening (which I do). - Chris Myles
Well Chris M, Facebook is doing that, and it's not good enough. So actually 'forever', yes, that too. If, in the future, I have to upload my genetic profile to my doctor's office, which only uses the internet, 'forever' has to be there. - Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher, I agree but I think this is something different. Your terms of service with a Doctors office include VERY strict LAWS about security of private personal information and it's availability, facebook does not!! .. if those rules are "not good enough" for you personally than you shouldn't use the service! - Chris Myles
I don't disagree. But then we agree we have to rely on legislation, and that terms of service are inadequate means to protect anything? - Christopher Galtenberg
I disagree that we have to rely on legislation, but we do need to take personal responsibility for our actions and understand how we can/will be notified of changes when they occur. See Amendments http://www.facebook.com/terms.... How many users are fans of the Site Governance Page (http://www.facebook.com/fbsiteg...) 1.5 M? How many users read the notifications dialogs that they... more... - Chris Myles
iANAL, but there seems growing case law supporting Privacy Policies and TOS as binding. See: http://www.concurringopinions.com/archive... & http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3... Facebook has certainly built itself up based on promises of privacy and control, but real choice and control steadily is degraded and obfuscated. - Tinfoil 2.0
Chris M, I'm not sure what internet you're using, but I really admire the users on it. I really watch this stuff closely, but *even I* am not a fan of Site Governance Page. I wish my internet had users (including myself) that had the intelligence and wherewithal to deal with every whim that Crazy Mark spins up this month. - Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher, I just joined! I only found out about it after researching your statements about TOS (I can't stand on my personal responsibility soapbox if I don't).. I'm learning too. Obviously there will be a lot less users dealing with Crazy Mark after this, if my social graph is any indication! - Chris Myles
Paul Buchheit
If you're at Web 2.0 tomorrow: A Conversation with Paul Buchheit: Web 2.0 Expo San Francisco 2010 - http://www.web2expo.com/webexsf...
"4:10pm Tuesday, 05/04/2010 Keynote Location: Keynote Room - 3rd Level Paul Buchheit of Facebook in conversation with Web 2.0 Expo SF program chair, Sarah Milstein." - Paul Buchheit from Bookmarklet
Wish I was - would love to meet with you Paul. - Jim Connolly
You can never go wrong by having a conversation with Paul Buchheit ;) - Clare Dibble
When Facebook bought friendfeed, Paul was professional enough to come on here and answer our questions about it. Massive amount of respect for the guy. Still a real shame they've stopped developing here though. - Jim Connolly
You're not too bad to talk to as well, Clare. ;) - April Buchheit
Oops! Thanks, Blu T. Clare knows what I mean. - April Buchheit
Louis Gray
Is Facebook the New Evil Empire? » Infinitely Meta - http://blog.infinitelymeta.com/2010...
Facebook would have to become an empire before they can be an evil empire. - Dawn
yes - sofarsoShawn from iPhone
Give them time, Dawn. :) - Louis Gray
I'm seeing a lot more commentary about the way facebook handles / mishandles people's data. Who knows? Maybe they are just sooo big right now that they can do what they like? - Jim Connolly
We need an "Evil-o-meter" to measure this ;) - Jim Connolly
Yep - feels pretty evil too!! - Jim Connolly
totes megoats - sofarsoShawn
they are still innocent boys compared to what google controls and influences - it is easy to opt out, dont use apps, dont use like, and dont fill in your profile. Try opting out of google, when near every site, blog, rss feed is google enabled? - Iphigenie
I disagree about Google. Unlike Facebook, it is quite possible to use Google services relatively extensively without coughing up large amounts of real-world personal information. It takes a little work, but it can be done. - Tinfoil 2.0 from iPhone
Brian: If all is takes is "400 million strong and growing" then Hepititis B is an empire. - Dawn
Louis Gray
Do You or Your Friends Facebook “Like” a Site? Be Prepared to Share Everything - http://www.michellesblog.net/other-s...
Great post Michelle! - Jim Connolly
Jim Connolly
Anyone home? ;)
I think I am - Technogran
okay, that's three of us... - Jim Connolly
*knocks on monitor* Is this thing on? - Jenny
Jenny: How cool would it be if the monitor knocked back and said YES! - Jim Connolly
My fingers are on the home keys right NOW. - Micah
Hello, Jim. - NOT THE CRICKET
Cool? No. Terrifying? Yes! Hi, Jim. - Jenny
Jenny: Yeah, now I think of it that might be a little scary. - Jim Connolly
Jimminy: Hi! - Jim Connolly
Weird - ive got 17,000 followers on twitter and asked the same "anyone home" question there a few weeks ago, at the same time as I did here. Got like 1 reply - already had several here in a few minutes. - Jim Connolly
New protest sign idea: "WE'RE WEIRD -AND- WE'RE HOME!" - Micah
:) @ Glen & Micah - Jim Connolly
We keep weird hours, that's for sure. - Jenny
Maybe we just "keep weird"... ;) - Jim Connolly
Jim Connolly
Friendfeed's alexa stats look interesting: http://www.alexa.com/siteinf...
According to alexa (not the best metric) It seems Friendfeed's attracting more traffic. ;) - Jim Connolly
Does anyone have any other stats for Friendfeeds numbers over the past 6 months? - Jim Connolly
MugeCerman
Who owns YOUR name online? - http://jimsmarketingblog.com/2010...
Who owns YOUR name online?
Thanks for the "likes" ;) - Jim Connolly
Robert Scoble
The one search company most likely to get purchased by Microsoft to crush Google that I saw in Cambridge UK? PrismaStar.
Reasons for saying that? - Ahmed
Why? - Jim Connolly
why ? - Kashif Khan
"crush google", wow sounds interesting. - Rich Lazzara
I hope this is the same PrimaStar Robert is talking about - Ashish
Rich: Google crush sounds more interesting - like the name of a drink. - Jim Connolly
Why? You'll have to see our Building43 video to see why. :-) But let's just say they did the search technology for several camera stores and the conversion rate went WAY up. Why is that? Because they offer a new way of searching things that really rocks. I can't explain it in text. Gotta show it to you. - Robert Scoble
looking fwd to it - Rich Lazzara
Primestar's AnswerOil UIX is a good fit for #Bing's decision support platform, combined with shopping cart & checkout optimization products from www.allurent.com would yield further eCommerce results. - Alexander Ainslie
Robert: direct link to the building43 video? - James Kuypers
Several people asked which product categories we support -- here's a site that uses over 1000: http://translate.google.com/transla... - jzt
(on the right-hand side of that translated page are some samples...) - jzt
Also, Mark Essel: YES, we do support dynamic search/ads via keywords/tags. :) - jzt
Most likely to get purchased by Microsoft with the intent to crush Google, perhaps. But Microsoft intends a lot of things. Maybe they'll buy PrismaStar, then rebrand MSN, er, Live Search, er Bing, and the market will be less confused. - Andy Bakun
But Jessops the camera retailer is losing money: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money... - Jelly Roll Morton
Jessops has been losing money as long as anyone can remember, which is hardly Prismastar's fault. The point is though that Jessops has a very good search tool with Prismastar's AnswerOil and has seen a substantial increase in its conversion rates since adopting Prismastar's technology. It could be Answeroil which has kept them going this long (nobody would have expected them to still be around in late 2009 eighteen months ago) - John S Cameron
John, did Jessops really see a substantial increase in conversion rates? I respectfully suggest that this is not a fact. Can anyone actually verify this claim? It is on record that Jessops are still around because HSBC Bank saved them, rather than because of their business performance. - Jelly Roll Morton
Posting from another feed: here is the prior art that someone was looking for on Interconnected Sliders : they existed back in 2004 in the public domain - download this FLA file for free and build your own interconnected sliders: http://www.senocular.com/flash... - Jelly Roll Morton
Microsoft hooking up with Prismastar was a good idea. Time inc. felt the same way and purchased Stylefeeder a shopping selector. - Paul Baldovin
Hello again Mark, Comparing the Prismastar Product Selector to Jemms iBlick Finder would most depend on what the clients business requirements are. This is the way to determine which might be the best to use. Those that I've worked with would look at price, flexibility, timeline to full deployment and analytics. I would suggest any client in need of this kind of solution look at both... more... - Paul Baldovin
Why don’t any of these Prismastar affiliates work? - collectinstore.co.uk - offeroftheday.co.uk - prophotoinsights.net - digitalphotographyprojects.com - turkeyherald.com - vouchers-and-deals.com - mike townsend
Uh oh - it's true that Prismastar have failed to raise funding and have now closed their Cambridge, UK office, better luck predicting big things next time, Robert! - Jelly Roll Morton
Scoble's reputation as a prophet continues! ("crush Google" LOLing) - sofarsoShawn
whoops! LoL - Jelly Roll Morton
Jim Connolly
Who's around right now? Say Hi!! :-)
Hi, From New Zealand, just been reading your email The leadership question – Your feedback please! who's leaders, who's followers, true it is not very easy to find leaders, not sure what I am, but I do try to lead. - Elsie Hagley
I think we are all followers and some are leaders too. Does that make sense? - Jim Connolly
Louis Gray
According to my e-mail archive, louisgray.com launched Dec. 31, 1999, or 10 years ago today, just in time for Y2K.
Screen shot 2009-12-31 at 11.52.51 AM.jpg
And this is another good reason I keep all my e-mail (or almost all of it)... - Louis Gray
Of course, at the time, it was a flat site and not a blog. But boy, wouldn't that have been something if I had posts going back that far. - Louis Gray
And that pic also reminds me of a time when the @home service was thriving! - manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Judging by the color scheme you were a fan of Google. - Darren
Darren, your assumption is correct. I pretty much scraped this page: http://www.google.com/intl... The funny thing is, at the time, Google wasn't so visible that everybody would recognize it. :) - Louis Gray
ZuDfunck, according to Google Calculator, I was 10 years younger than I am now. - Louis Gray
This 2001 screenshot shows my linking to when XP launched. Good times. :) http://web.archive.org/web... - Louis Gray
The 2000-era "About Page" http://web.archive.org/web... - Louis Gray
Happy 10th birthday Louis! - Jim Connolly
WOW, that is really cool! I started using Blogger in 2003 (smbeebe account)... Wish I hadn't deleted all my old blog posts...aarggg - Susan Beebe
You were on @Home ten years ago? Me too. I lived in the neighborhood in Fremont which was wired for the LANCity modems. - DGentry
Yes, DGentry, I was on @Home, while in Belmont. Prior to that, I was on Earthlink. Prior to that, I was on the UC Berkeley student system. Prior to that, AOL. Prior to that, Prodigy. - Louis Gray
Prior to that, morse code ! - Mo Kargas
Louis Gray
Twitter vs. Facebook: Who Will Win in Real-time Search? - http://mashable.com/2009...
Who will win? Who ever develops platforms or apps that can harvest everyone of these services' real time search features into one spot. Facebook and Twitter are slowly becoming communication and information hubs. Who ever can mine that takes home the big diamond. I hereby copyright the next big buzz term for the web "Real-Time Search Aggregation" - Johnny
Johnny, what happens when you click this: http://www.google.com/search... ? - Louis Gray
LOL! - Jim Connolly
DAMMIT GRAY... DAMMIT, DAMMIT, DAMMIT! *Jumps around and stomps on the floor* DAAAAAAAAMMMMNNNNN YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!! - Johnny
Bwahaha. Try again, Worthington. - Louis Gray
*tiny tiny tear*.............. - Johnny
Nice! - travispuk
Louis Gray wins the internet, AGAIN - Jesse Stay
Jesse: I'm curious if you are tempted to use your unfollow tool, now you are following so many people? - Jim Connolly
Jim, no - I use Twitter different than most people though. I use it as a search platform, so those I actually follow are simply relationships I'm trying to build, not information I'm trying to follow. I get that through other means. - Jesse Stay
As much as people make a fuss about Twitter Search, FriendFeed has shown it to be a pretty average option. I get better search results when searching Twitter on FriendFeed than I do with Twitter's own search engine. - Paul Jacobson
Jesse: Yep, that makes sense to me. BTW: I hear your tool's pretty good - Kudos!! - Jim Connolly
Thanks Jim! We try to do what we do well - it's one of many we offer, on multiple platforms. - Jesse Stay
@Louis: OMG LOL!! ;.D - Franc, a rememberer
BRO-PWN3D!! - Josh Haley
"Johnny pwns Louis Gray" http://www.google.ca/search... - Micah
Mark, I wouldn't say "Louis knows what he owns". That's not true. I found out the oddity because Johnny mentioned the string and I searched on Google. Pure chance. Great chance. But luck all the same. - Louis Gray
Bump. I miss this thread. - Louis Gray
Definitely a highlight of 2009 - Josh Haley
so who did win then? - Thomas Power
Thomas, I don't think anybody has won, because no prize has been given yet. When visible real-time-search revenue starts flowing from Twitter or Facebook, we can declare a winner. :) - Dawn
Leo Laporte
Live now: This Week In Google 21 with Jeff Jarvis, Gina Trapani, and Kevin Marks. http://live.twit.tv. Discuss here...
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Glad Jeff gave credit to Adam Curry and Dave Winer. - Alex Howard
Perhaps Kevin could dial down his video quality - Ken Sheppardson
Hello Leo, Will you be talking about the new Nexus One Phone, listening and watching on UStream in Los Angeles, CA. Yes its 78 degress here. - George Mag
Doesn't a 10 second pre-roll before a 5 minute clip give the advertiser equivalent exposure? - Ken Sheppardson
It'd be great to start collecting that mark data now, even if the players and infrastructure don't yet support it. - Ken Sheppardson
bloggingheads.tv does a good job with deep links to video segments - Jim Posner
Isn't it possible to do automatic transcription on YouTube now? - Ken Sheppardson
Apparently you can embed a YouTube video and start at a specific point by appending the "start=xxx" parameter to the embed URL, where xxx is the start time in seconds... but you can't use that in a browser link - Ken Sheppardson
Way to work in the scifi reference, Kevin. Charlie Stross is awesome. - Alex Howard
The Economics of a Free Google Phone - http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009... - Ken Sheppardson
Google's Nexus One lacks multitouch - http://www.engadget.com/2009... - Holger Eilhard
"P.S. We should probably clarify that while the Google Apps tested don't respond to multitouch, the OS and hardware are presumably multitouch capable. See our previous exhaustive analysis of this topic if you're wondering why." - Holger Eilhard
Gina makes a great point about photo search on Google. - Jim Connolly
We need a Voight-Kampff app. - Ken Sheppardson
All those publicly available images on Facebook will be fair game for corporate recruiters now. - George Mag
But Jeff already has an audience. Once you've established a community, they can rally around you, but some random, anonymous person? Not so much. - Ken Sheppardson
Oh come on. Leo. Of course people are using the Yellow Pages. All early adopters here, so no one is crying foul? That will change, but for offline folks, it's still true. There's still a business there, though not for long. - Alex Howard
We do know, Leo. It's called Dyn. http://www.pcworld.com/article... - Alex Howard
"My Gmail Account and Google Apps Got Hacked" - http://www.labnol.org/interne... - Holger Eilhard
That link was eye-opening, @Holger. Led to a great tip post on RWW: http://goo.gl/IOG9 - Alex Howard
Alex: Especially to know all that stuff about your account that you probably never thought about... Should be a good source for a Lifehacker post, too. - Holger Eilhard
We do sorta see this already with all the different blogging APIs, no? MetaBlog, XML-RPC, Wordpress, etc. - Ken Sheppardson
I suspect we'll end up with a publicly accepted generic version of the API, with some group that slowly folds in features that Twitter rolls out, lagging by a few months. - Ken Sheppardson
... so developers will be able to support the "Production"/generic version, or track the "Developement" channel, which is whatever Twitter wants to throw in with no notice. - Ken Sheppardson
Leo what exactly is the Tri-Caster? - George Mag
I know this is way late to the game, but I was just listening on my Android... I use an app called DoggCatcher... it was the first app on the Android and it is by far the best... Please try it out. - Jeff Martin
Does the risk of a stalker identifying Gina outweight the benefit of Gina identifying a stalker? - Michal Tatarynowicz
good point Michal - Chris Heath
If Google is "an advertising company" (a great quote), then how does it make money with it's brilliant Gmail app for the Android (for example) where there are no ads? - David M
The free mobile app is simply a feature of the Gmail service that gives you a reason to pick Gmail over Hotmail, Yahoo mail, Outlook/Exchange, etc. They make their money displaying ads to you when you're at your PC reading mail via Gmail vs some other service. - Ken Sheppardson
Jeff Jarvis is not the father of podcasts. He is more like a rich step-father that came in and adopted a young, poor, kid that had lots of potential and put him into Harvard. - Ward Seward
I think any "father of podcasting" references you heard were RE Kevin Marks, Ward. Back in 2003 he worked on a tool to push RSS enclosures to the iPod (see http://epeus.blogspot.com/2003...) - Ken Sheppardson
And notice Kevin's modesty as he refers to Winer, who's RSS enclosures made it possible - note that audio rss feeds were around before the term 'podcasting' - Kevin's tool was the first to get those feeds onto iPods and then naturally followed the term 'podcast' ... yadda yadda yadda - Chris Heath
I'm back to the "but if it's free..." problem. Android (or any 'smart-phone') apps that are sans-advertising are GREAT for information but horrible for money making. At some point, there is no more return-on-investment (e.g. the 'free netbook from Google' idea) without advertising OR Google return to old-school advertising where ubiquity is pursued without knowing if the investment _actually_ causes revenue... and that won't work so well in the Economy 2.0-and-beyond... me thinks. - David M
OK, think of it this way: free Gmail apps on your phone are like an ad for Gmail. They get you to start using the product that's generating revenue, which is the full-blown in-browser app. - Ken Sheppardson
I agree with Ken. The phone is a supplement to there real/desktop products (with ads of course). I could never do all my email, calendar, docs, contacts,... on just my phone. Give'm the razors for free. We'll make money off the blades! - Ward Seward
Also, Ken and Chris... I know who Kevin is and what he did (was listening to podcasts before they had the term podcasts). I just had a brain fart and typed the wrong name, because I had just read the show description. Anyway, I wasn't writing to say he didn't contribute greatly to podcasting... I was commenting on Leo's comment and Kevin's modesty/joking about Kevin being the father of podcasting. (AKA I was trying to be funny) - Ward Seward
Ward, gotcha... however, Leo's still right since the term podcasting wouldn't have come around if these audio netcasts via rss were never put onto iPods. - Chris Heath
also note, i'm not saying that it wouldn't have happened, just that it was Kevin who made it happen first (along with everyone else who came before him, winer etc, and those that helped him with that initial app) - Chris Heath
Here's a YouTube deep-linking example http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Ken Morley
Gina
Google Year-End Countdown Easter Egg - http://smarterware.org/4076...
Great share Gina, thanks. - Jim Connolly
Jim Connolly
Crackdown on laser pen yobs - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1...
Aviation regulators are targeting yobs who shine powerful laser beams at pilots following a massive 1,700% increase in cases in the last two years. - Jim Connolly from Bookmarklet
Jim Connolly
Apple and Nokia's battle hots up - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2...
"The legal battle between Finland's Nokia and its US rival Apple has taken a new turn, with Apple countersuing Nokia over alleged patent violations." - Jim Connolly from Bookmarklet
Paul Thurrott
John Williams
Jim Connolly
Re-start for 'Big Bang' machine - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2...
Re-start for 'Big Bang' machine
The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) experiment has been re-started after a hiatus of 14 months. - Jim Connolly from Bookmarklet
....now I know why Amber was sking this question: http://friendfeed.com/sda... - WoH: Professor MOTHRA
Louis Gray
Why is no one talking about Twitter Tags? - http://knowthenetwork.com/blog...
I've been talking about them for awhile now :-) No one listens. :-( - Jesse Stay
I haven't noticed it at Twitter, but I've noticed favorites used that way on identi.ca - Spidra Webster
The fundamental flaw seems to be one stream per account. So the only correct way to seriously use Twitter is to make several topic-specific accounts. - Vezquex
Jesse I'm just glad to hear that I'm not too far off base. If you are talking about tagging someone will listen. Louis thanks for sharing. - Keith - @tsudo
Vezquex you hit the nail on the head. I think tagging may provide different data streams. Thank you for reading. - Keith - @tsudo
No one's talking about Twitter tags because there's only one tag used on Twitter AFAIK, which is the favorites tag. No doubt, as Twitter continue to try and make twitter 'stickier' they will add some though. - Jim Connolly
The lists can operate in a "tag-like" way, but as Vezquex mentioned, those who tweets about just 1 subject and 1 subject only are accounts that market or promote something (ie Dell & CoffeeCupNews), whereas most accounts are also/mainly used for personal tweets. - sofarsoShawn
Here's where I touched on it: http://staynalive.com/article... - I've been mentioning this on Twitter and on the dev mailing list for awhile though. Twitter needs a meta layer so developers can categorize Tweets like you mention. - Jesse Stay
What about using hashtags like #SideWiki #WhuffiesWelcome, (add your favorites here) .. - Dr. Fridemar Pache
Fridemar - I think hashtags only suit their search function. I'd like to see a separate system for actually tagging a tweet based on subject. - Keith - @tsudo
The post has been updated to include references to Jesse's article and the ongoing conversations. - Keith - @tsudo
FWIW when I asked it on the Twitter list about a year ago Twitter said they were working on a meta layer to the API. I'm banking it will happen eventually. - Jesse Stay
I'd like to see an equivalent of flickr's machine tags for Twitter. - Bryce Roney
Jim Connolly
Rosetta makes final home call - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1...
Rosetta makes final home call
Europe's Rosetta spacecraft has made its third and final flyby of Earth, a manoeuvre designed to position the probe to chase down a comet in 2014. - Jim Connolly from Bookmarklet
Jim Connolly
First time on Friendfeed for about a week. Have I missed much?
You tell us. How does your "best of week" look? - Bruce Lewis
Bruce: Not that thrilling. Good point. - Jim Connolly
I still see a lot of great people on Friendfeed - It's also light-years ahead technically of anything else out there. - Jim Connolly
There were some good discussions comparing the droid and iphone. I read about issues with the latest ubuntu release. I still like it here. - Mike Nencetti
Glen, also a glow worm: http://friendfeed.com/babyfee... - Rochelle
Glen, Rochelle :o) - Jim Connolly
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