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Jo Badge › Likes
Daniel Mietchen to Daniel's feed, Science 2.0, Science in the long run, Research Funding 2.0, Young scientists, The Life Scientists
Fwd: Research grants: Let’s end this shared madness by Wellcome Trust director Mark Walport, Times Higher Education - http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story... (via http://friendfeed.com/dullhun...)
Ian Simpson, Ruchira S. Datta, Richard Akerman and 14 other people liked this
"So what are we proposing? We will phase out project and programme grants and instead, extend the model of fellowship support to researchers who are salaried by their university or research institute. "
- Daniel Mietchen
"We look to the scientific community to bring us their best ideas." - looks like an invite for another round of Fantasy Science Funding (this time from the perspective of the Wellcome Trust).
- Daniel Mietchen
Having been a Wellcome Trust International Travelling Fellow I've appreciated Wellcome's visionary approach to funding, and applaud their initiative here. This isn't a fantasy, this is Wellcome, and it will happen...
- Richard Badge
I agree, I don't think this is fantasy. They will do what they say. Few, the light is finally dawning.
- Jo Badge
For background on Fantasy Science Funding, see http://ways.org/en... . This piece shall also serve as a basis for an upcoming post on "What would research funding look like if it were invented today?" ( http://ff.im/9SvED ) which is intended to contain a general analysis of the funding situation, combined with some specific examples....
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- Daniel Mietchen
this looks bit but I don't really understand what it means in practice. You apply for a fellowship but does that not mean that you still are asking for the resources for a defined programme of work? If slightly less tightly defined? Will be interested to see what this means in detailed terms.
- Cameron Neylon
Critique: An inward-looking scheme which must eventually collapse due to failure to recruit new talent (and lack of a proper career structure will speed that up). Bye bye UK science.
- AJCann
I would suggest to them to do a significant part of the review process in the open, and to abandon it for some control group that meets basic eligibility criteria.
- Daniel Mietchen
@ajcann cynic ;-) what do you propose instead then? At least they are trying to acknowledge that science is done by good people with good ideas, giving them the freedom to follow those ideas to their logical conclusions and not to a pre-determined end point that you can only guess at.
- Jo Badge
But this strategy cannot be successful in the long term as it is anti-innovative and will inevitably degenerate into an old boys club.
- AJCann
@ AJCann: It has already gone much of that way, and I interpret Walport's piece as a sign of consciousness of the matter and an invitation for constructive criticism, albeit he seems to be very concerned about the opinions of other funders.
- Daniel Mietchen
The Wellcome trust is certainly one of the organizations that are most upfront (and sometimes brutal) in saying what they want and being forceful in maximizing their return on investment. I would certainly give them the benefit of the doubt to some extent on this one. But there is also something of a perception that it is something of a closed club. Partly this is down to a conscious...
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- Cameron Neylon
Yes, but not a viable strategy for UK science overall. It works for Wellcome as long as they can cannibalize the fresh talent funded by someone else. It won't work over the longer term is all (or most) agencies go down this route.
- AJCann
@ajcann you'd rather have two strikes and you're out ala epsrc?
- Jo Badge
from iPod
Well at least junior researchers can apply for an EPSRC grant.
- AJCann
Alan, let me ask the tough question - _is_ there a viable strategy for UK science overall? As in a strategy that views UK science in isolation? Having just got back from China I've got to say it certainly feels like we're toast unless we build our personnel and physical infrastructure in a bigger framework.
- Cameron Neylon
Probably not at the present/proposed levels of funding and considering what is being asked. Developing economies regard fundamental research as a route to prosperity. Decaying economies seems to regard science funding as a drain. It would be possible to fund selected areas, e.g. sustainable technologies, healthcare, and focus limited funding, but in this proposal inadequate funding is...
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- AJCann
It's interesting how explicit that is in the China case. The spending of money to speed development as well as to bring people back to support this. Building a new campus expected to house 20,000 scientists in a five year timeframe just doesn't seem to bother them. At the same time the heirachical and top down nature of the society and organization of their science doesn't seem to support radical developments. Will be very interesting to watch though.
- Cameron Neylon
Visa, viva, vici! I've got my visa and just passed my viva.
Jo Badge, Neel, Deepak Singh and 12 other people liked this
congratulations!
- Simon Cockell
Thanks everyone. I'm in the pub making the moat of it. Being mocked for going online too.
- Michael Barton
from iPod
Drinks all around ;)
- Pedro Beltrao
@Michael Congratulations!
- Duncan Hull
Congratulations^2!
- Bill Hooker
Congratulations Michael !
- Pierre Lindenbaum
What they all said. So where are you off to and to do what?
- Neil Saunders
Congratulations! All the best!
- Ricardo Vidal
Thank you everyone, was nice to read this morning.
- Michael Barton
Scientists still not joining social networks -- Scholarly Kitchen -- http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009...
Mike Chelen, Joe...., paul baker and 12 other people liked this
Personally, am not convinced of some of the assumptions, e.g. "...Both are unfortunate, but are parts of the current culture [reference to sharing early lab results]. Any network that hopes to succeed must adapt to the culture of the community, rather than trying to rewrite it." First, though likely rare, I think there are instances where culture gets "re-written" -- another perspective is that this form of communication provides an alternative to established routes. That is, does not replace them but adds to the diversity of communication means.
- Mickey Schafer
The only thing I really disagree with here is that I think there will be a shift towards more open approaches as more examples of success show up. Then everyone will go over the edge like lemmings and there will be a backlash again but by then the funders will be piling in with conditions to push things forward.
- Cameron Neylon
<cynical>It doesn't matter what the scientists think. What matters is what the funders demand of them.</cynical> Open science doesn't really depend on "[online] social networks" and never has. It's true that most open-science sorts are active social networkers, but when the rubber hits the road, I don't care who's on FriendFeed -- I care who's sharing data. If the funders demand the latter and not the former, good on 'em. Behavior will shift accordingly.
- D0r0th34
But the funders are the scientists in most cases - so a mixture of pushing from within the community - as well as top down mandates will get us there. The question is how to get the funders into a position where they feel bound to impose mandates _and_ provide the infrastructure that makes it possible to observe them...?
- Cameron Neylon
Mmm, I'm not sure I agree. Funding infrastructure relies on a fair amount of scientist labor, yes -- but it's not career scientists who have been calling the funder shots; it's been top-level administrators (some of whom are ex-scientists, admittedly) looking at bottom lines. The Wellcome Trust mandate didn't come from scientists. Neither did the NIH policy. <cynical>One can't rely on scientists for effective science policy.</cynical>
- D0r0th34
Fair enough. UK Research Councils case is more nuanced. Even Wellcome Trust policy was driven to a certain extent by the fundees or at least not in the face of belligerent opposition from them. But comparing the independent funders like Wellcome to the Research Councils (run more by councils of academics) is instructive.
- Cameron Neylon
I thought the spin on your lovely shout out for Medeley on ch 4 news was interesting, Cameron (nice monitors btw!). 'government backing for innovators to meet and share' was the message. Have you had any responses to that yet? Maybe systems like Mendeley will be the things that start to crack the nut of social networking for scientists? I'm not sure it's a killer app, more the thin end of the wedge...
- Jo Badge
Shorter DC: I don't like social networks or spend any time on them, so they must be useless.
- Bill Hooker
I'm afraid they're not my monitors but those for the control room for one of the instruments (not incidentally the one that got filmed in the piece - but at least there was no blue liquid!) But they are in fact necessary to keep the instrument running and processing data efficiently.
- Cameron Neylon
Bill, I am afraid your DC is heads on :-)
- Claudia Koltzenburg
I can imagine a report from 1670, a full five years after the creation of academic journals, concluding that virtually no scientists were using academic journals as a matter of course, and thus they are useless. (Technological progress has sped up a lot since 1670, of course. But social change isn't all that much faster, in my opinion. And this is fundamentally a social change.)
- Michael Nielsen
Michael++
- D0r0th34
I think we also tend to forget the granddaddy social software: email. In some fields there are tremendously active listservs that have been around for over a decade especially at research universities where faculty got email before it really caught on in the wider world. What evidence would convince a scientist that Facebook, LinkedIn or Twitter offer better communication opportunities than an archived listserv?
- Jenny Reiswig
Well, aren't most scientists using email as "communication opportunities" and nothing else? (social network, listserv etc)?
- Maxine
were observations limited to sites specifically designed for scientists? perhaps to the exclusion of other significant mainstream platforms like facebook or twitter
- Mike Chelen
Has anyone played with http://feedzero.com ? I'm currently training my set of feeds, and haven't quite got to where the recommendations make up for the web-only interface. Friendfeed still beats it.
Jo Badge, manielse (Mark Nielsen) and suelibrarian liked this
intriguing, what feeds do you put in there? I'm trying with TOCs of journals. How do you compare FF with feedzero? Didn't know FF had bayesian or other algorithmic filters.
- aarontay
FF doesn't have bayesian filters. They do use a ranking for their "best of day" feature, but it mostly comes from user activity, so the comparison is between purely algorithmic rank and social filtering. So far, social filtering FTW!
- Mr. Gunn
As far as what feeds I'm putting in, I just uploaded my whole OPML file. Took some time to sync, but works pretty well.
- Mr. Gunn
Well social filtering is great if it's things people are reading, but with Tocs of journals, doubtful FF can help you filter.
- aarontay
I'm not using bayesian filters for my "normal" rss blog feeds, think social filtering will work better, but for tocs of journals, where i'm looking for articles in my research area, i dont know any peers in this area, so bayesian filter is the only alternative
- aarontay
But it can! If my contacts are reading the same journals I am, and feeding in here things they're bookmarked using a bookmarking service, it brings those things to my attention.
- Mr. Gunn
Yes, that's my problem, I don't know any contacts working in the same area (besides my supervisor!), a problem facing many starting grad student, so we can't rely on social filters. Also i suppose it's a lazy way to prioritize journals, if you want to at least glance at them if you dont trust your social filters.
- aarontay
Deepak had some comments on learning to trust your social filters a while back, but yeah, it's hard sometimes. In other news...citeulike has a recommendation feature and Mendeley's great recommendations feature is coming soon.
- Mr. Gunn
Here's the question, are these recommendations based solely on social activity? What if you are working in an area that no-one else is (very likely particularly these days where a small percentage of people are only on such networks). Machine learning techniques like bayesian filtering would be very helpful.
- aarontay
Yes, that's certainly true. I always think of it as Bayesian filtering helps you find the best stuff you already know you like, whereas social search helps you find stuff you didn't know you were looking for,
- Mr. Gunn
I haven't, but now I'm going to. Looks interesting.
- Bill Hooker
In case you are interested in bayesian filtering, the other alternative is suxtor http://icbl.macs.hw.ac.uk/sux0r20... , which ls less commercial. There's a interesting project going along http://bayesianfeedfilter.wordpress.com/ .
- aarontay
I think I might have originally seen that from one of your tweets, actually.
- Mr. Gunn
Yes. I'm working on a blog post on bayesian filtering of rss feeds actually.. several alternatives
- aarontay
I keep hearing rumors of a product that will blow services like feedzero away, but haven't seen so much as a screenshot yet.
- Mr. Gunn
You can setup your own install, or just use the one hosted by Heriot-Watt University. The people there are pretty interested in feedback. main disadvantage so far, can't import opml! Also feeds needs to be approved by admin.
- aarontay
No OPML import is a major dealbreaker for me, unfortunately.
- Mr. Gunn
There's a beta- invitation only feedscrub/ rss bayesian filter, you can get the invitation code on some site, techcrunch or something. 1 got 5 invites if anyone wants them. the free version does only 5 feeds though, but the premium allows opml import. Also playing with hacks like converting rss feeds to POP/IMAP/NNTP then using POPFILE for bayesian filtering.
- aarontay
Converting posts to emails and filtering using the more well-developed tools available for spam is a interesting idea, but it's kinda hacky, isn't it? My income of feed items is way larger than emails - wouldn't that make popfile choke?
- Mr. Gunn
Yeah it's hacky. I've used Popfile for a couple of years in the past before i switched mostly to gmail, i remember going on holiday and coming back and it could handle hundreds of mails incoming at a time (think the mail server timed out first), but it's possible your rss feeds exceeds that by far. God knows i have thousands of unread articles in google reader.
- aarontay
Yeah, thousands, at least. There are whole categories of feeds I don't read directly, only filter/search.
- Mr. Gunn
Incredible video about a guy selling 500 types of soda pop http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Steve Koch, Björn Brembs, Jo Badge and 3 other people liked this
very nice
- Thierry Lhôte
Early data from citeulike's automated article recommender http://blog.citeulike.org/...
Yann Abraham, Martin Fenner, Mr. Gunn and 16 other people liked this
"It’s really gratifying to see the social discovery of science generated by the simple act of keeping your references public on a Web page."
- Duncan Hull
Head in the clouds: Re-imagining the experimental laboratory record for the web-based networked world - http://www.citeulike.org/user...
Claudia Koltzenburg, Daniel Mietchen, 'Mummi' Thorisson and 2 other people liked this
Really must figure out how to set the citeulike feed so as not to push my own papers through to here :-)
- Cameron Neylon
Nowt wrong with publishing in multiple channels for different audiences.
- AJCann
Try doing a FF search for "citeulike" and then say that again! :-)
- Fergus Gallagher
Yes, my concern is that I'm publishing the same content in on aggregated channel to the same audience...I guess this is why people like posterous as a central wrangling house so much
- Cameron Neylon
The Complete Guide to Google Wave: How to Use Google Wave - http://completewaveguide.com/
Jodi Schneider, Ian Simpson, Jack H. Pincus and 6 other people liked this
A comprehensive user manual by Gina Trapani with Adam Pash. Nice job.
- AJCann
from Bookmarklet
So it seems (from reading the first chapter) that if I rewatch the complete Firefly boxed set I'll just "get" google wave... It's a tough job but somebody's got to do it!:)
- Richard Badge
from Nambu
errr looks rather long... :-(
- Jo Badge
It's very good. It's Wave that's a bit long.
- AJCann
very slow site, seems it's popular. Anyone tried to register and edit anything, since the site's running on a wiki?
- Mr. Gunn
It was quite fast when I used it, but it got bigged up by the tech blogs over the weekend, so I guess the server is getting hammered.
- AJCann
youtube timer anxiety: I get really anxious at the end of youtube and other videos which show the time remaining. "There's no way this video will finish with only 5 seconds remaining!" But it somehow always does, exactly on time. Producers could save me a lot of stress if they'd pad their videos with 10 seconds of closing credits.
Jo Badge and Abhishek Tiwari liked this
Yes: I have a proposal due tomorrow morning. "There's no way this proposal will write itself with only 12 hours remaining!"
- Steve Koch
*Cell* wonders out loud... Scientists, Should You Be Tweeting? - http://www.cell.com/fulltex...
sanju ashraf, Richard Akerman, 'Mummi' Thorisson and 10 other people liked this
With mentions of @phylogenomics, @girlscientist, @sciencebase and @dgmacarthur
- Noah Gray
from Bookmarklet
I really hope David Crotty tells us his opinion on this.
- Mr. Gunn
*snerk*
- D0r0th34
*fluff*
- Graham Steel
too bad they did not mention friendfeed
- Pedro Beltrao
You mean Facefeed, don't you?
- Noah Gray
Mr Gunn wins the thread.
- Bill Hooker
No, it's Friendface: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- The Neurocritic
He's written about social networks, anyway, http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprot...
- Maxine
Yes, Maxine, he certainly has. He didn't link to the earlier posts, but he used to be quite firmly in the "blogging is a waste of time, now get back to the bench" camp.
- Mr. Gunn
Nice use of @citeulike by @sangerinstitute for journal picks http://library.sanger.ac.uk and staff papers http://www.citeulike.org/group...
Kevin Emamy, AJCann, Jo Badge and Deepak Singh liked this
"Torn" by Johann Lippowitz with Natalie Imbruglia - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Steve Koch, Jo Badge and Rajarshi Guha liked this
"Head in the Clouds" - A paper on Web-native lab notebooks in a new BMC journal: http://www.aejournal.net/content...
Mackenzie Cowell, Jason Morrison, Pawel Szczesny and 13 other people liked this
Cameron visited our lab today! Here's a photo of Cameron discussing the tweezers with Anthony. I'm doing my best to suck my gut in.
Kubke, Victor / Mendeley Team, Claudia Koltzenburg and 23 other people liked this
Was an awesome day. Thank you so much for traveling and spending time with us today, Cameron! I learned a lot about science and means for carrying out open science. I'm energized about what seems like a very nice future protein-DNA collaboration. And I'm also energized about trying to implement some of the LaBlog and Google wave things you demoed for us.
- Steve Koch
I agree it was a great visit. I enjoyed showing you the version of the $100 spectrometer I'm working on and all the great conversation. I hope KochLab can start a collaboration with our friends across the pond.
- Andy Maloney
from iPhone
I think I'm going to put some nuggets of information from today onto this thread. Here is a link to the Neylon, Ward, Towrie, and Parker Tus-Ter single-molecule proposal (linked in Cameron's open notebook; see PDF at the bottom): http://blogs.chem.soton.ac.uk/sortase... I think that the system they are studying fits...
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- Steve Koch
I started learning more acronyms having to do with open and linked data. RDF = Resource Description Framework http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... There was some other acronym that I can't remember or find that Cameron was suggesting as a way of bundling an entire open data set of arbitrary format...lots of vowels, something like OAI... "open access...? NOTE...
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- Steve Koch
Cameron showed us some of the robots he and others have programmed for Google Wave. I learned that it's not crazily complicated to write a robot, and that you can use Google App Engine (http://code.google.com/appengi...) to host your code and run the robot. It currently runs Python and now Java. I still don't understand how it connects with Wave, but it solves a mystery to me of...
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- Steve Koch
(Coincidentally (or maybe not), right after waving with Cameron, Google Wave gave me my 20 invites to send out. Let me know if you need one!)
- Steve Koch
I'm sure Cameron and others have already said this in their many fantastic presentations and blog posts about wave. But I was happy to hear Cameron agree with my thinking that google wave + robots would be a very good way of handling data analysis workflows. When we process unzipping data, there are a few layers of software involved. I imagine each software application being run in the...
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- Steve Koch
Cameron's current LaBLog at Rutherford can be found here: http://biolab.isis.rl.ac.uk/cameron... Hopefully I'll be able to get access to this to see the edit features (I "requested" an account by logging in with my yahoo openid). I had previously been impressed by the notebook, but today was really wowed when I saw him edit a new entry. The particular things was the ability to...
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- Steve Koch
+1 for a Wave invite, please (pmiller@liv.ac.uk).
- Peter Miller
That's wonderful that Cameron visited your lab Steve! For all the usefulness of communication technologies nothing can replace a productive meatspace interaction.
- Jean-Claude Bradley
I had a great time - meeting and talking with Koch and the team. Lots of very cool stuff going on and lots of ideas that just seemed to bubble out of it. The meatspace interaction is really important but having that bit of background about what was going on and the context and trust built up here on Friendfeed amongst other places makes the whole discussion a lot quicker and more interesting.
- Cameron Neylon
Agree -- pre-meeting definitely made the in-person meeting very quick to start off. & @Peter Miller, sent the invite
- Steve Koch
Sounds like a fun (and productive!) day - thanks for sharing it with us, Steve. Also, I would appreciate a Wave invite (if you have any left!) - thanks! tom.tullius@gmail.com
- Tom Tullius
I hope to see some cool pics from this meet-up on Flickr :) Science builds upon Science especially in terms of ONS !! http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3358...
- Graham Steel
@Tom sent invite (fyi it takes several days to arrive) @Graham I think this is the only picture they got, unfortunately!
- Steve Koch
@Steve, Auch well. Best I can do with this 20.kB image is to B&W it, with a bit of res. conf.:- http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2620...
- Graham Steel
@Graham, I think I'm missing something. Is there a whole slew of cool open science photos on Flickr somewhere?
- Steve Koch
@Steve - I don't think there is..... yet. I take that back. Starter for 10 with http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089...
- Graham Steel
Small number of people use the tags openscience - http://www.flickr.com/photos... and science2.0 - http://www.flickr.com/photos....
- Neil Saunders
Thanks for wave, Steve
- Peter Miller
Thanks, Steve
- Tom Tullius
from iPod
A few comments back, I was simply looking through this filter http://search.creativecommons.org/... with open science - At worst, some really cool Flickr/CC images for future usage for anyone.
- Graham Steel
It occurs to me that in virtually every photo of me online I'm wearing the same jacket and same shirt. Typical academic...
- Cameron Neylon
@Graham, loved that one: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089...
- Steve Koch
Cameron let me in on the mystery acronym: OAI-ORE "Open Archives Initiative" "Object Reuse and Exchange." http://www.openarchives.org/ore...
- Steve Koch
For images there are the ONS logos created by Andy Lang and Shirley Wu http://onsclaims.wikispaces.com/
- Jean-Claude Bradley
Good resource for understanding ethical writing -- and written for students in the sciences (much work on plagiarism and such is done from a humanities perspective) -- "Avoiding plagiarism, self-plagiarism, and other questionable writing practices: A guide to ethical writing" -- http://facpub.stjohns.edu/~roigm... -- freely available
Katy S, 'Mummi' Thorisson, Jo Badge and Mike Chelen liked this
ah, so self-plagiarism would be to include one's prior works without proper citation?
- Mike Chelen
An interesting and useful distinction between research and scholarly writing and ordinary freelance writing. For freelancers, "self-plagiarism" is another term for survival--reusing good material in as many venues as possible.
- Walt Crawford
Self-plagiarism is the one that trips most students up -- in fact, I was asked privately by a colleague to defend a student (freshman) who's failed a class b/c of this; my colleague had never heard of such a thing. But, rather like publishing a paper, you are not allowed to use the same work twice w/out instructor permission. One rather frequent violation is among my premed students who...
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- Mickey Schafer
Walt -- and the same goes for teaching! Imagine never being able to use a lesson plan or activity in a class with a different employer. But the model in college/university is much closer to that of academic publishing as opposed to almost any other kind of trade publication. Personally (and I teach my students this strategy), while in college, I would take at least 2 classes similar enough in content that I could at least share part of a bibliography, even if the papers I wrote were distinct.
- Mickey Schafer
Pages 11-15 on "highly technical language" are the ones I really focus on -- my answer to this is to teach students to synthesize sources, which is what this little blurb is aimed to do: http://web.clas.ufl.edu/users...
- Mickey Schafer
@mickey your synthesising sources blurb is fab stuff! Do you mind if I share it with some colleagues at Leicester? we have an online tutorial designed to help students avoid plagiarism - see: http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices... the first one was written for biologists, but then it went on to be customised for lots of subjects. The subject specific nature helps deal with some of the issues you have raised above.
- Jo Badge
I'd be happy for you to use it, Jo! It's the rough draft of part of a "manuscript" I've been working on for too long now. Considering just tidying everything up and dumping it online somewhere to see if it can be of use. For my classes, I do dredge up discipline-specific examples for students to practice on. I pull out individual paragraphs rather than have them look at whole articles -- it's all for practice before writing review papers.
- Mickey Schafer
Are any bench scientists out there planning to use, or already using Google Wave as en electronic lab notebook?
Jason Winget, Maxamad, Mike Chelen and 8 other people liked this
Siamak Ashrafi is a is a Bio-Computational Specialist at TDI. I don't know if he's using Wave for notes but he created this great demo of how Wave can be used in a healthcare setting http://www.ylabz.com/
- Matt M Perez
Does that mean you have an invite?
- Hari
Unfortunately, my account came without invites of its own. I talked to a Wave evangelist and he said that they may be turned on "later."
- Matt M Perez
Yes! It's the main direction I want to go in to be honest. Not doing it yet but thinking about how best to implement. See slides at: http://www.slideshare.net/Cameron... and Allyson Lister's blog of the talk at: http://themindwobbles.wordpress.com/2009...
- Cameron Neylon
Can we share waves publically now?
- Egon Willighagen
I don't think the embed API allows you to make them public. There is a robot called bloggy that is supposed to push a wave to a wordpress blog I think.
- Cameron Neylon
Just ran across: http://www.aigarius.com/blog...
- Egon Willighagen
Making a wave public allows people without wave accounts to see it too?
- Egon Willighagen
I would love to try but still have not been able to get my collaborator Andy on, let alone my students. Any estimate of when anyone can get an account?
- Jean-Claude Bradley
@Hari, i got an invite from a family member. Can't really evaluate how good it is without putting it through its paces in a collaboration as per (http://danieltenner.com/posts...). But reading Cameron Neylon's article in Nature made me think about using it as a real lab notebook. The support for asynchrony and version control give it a clear advantage over traditional paper or electronic lab notebooks
- Wladimir Labeikovsky
I would like to, but it's not even in beta. Only by invites and only for developers to get a feedback
- Alexey
I am intrigued, but would need to know more about security, privacy and how to write robots... There is clearly huge potential here, but the artificial scarcity schtick is wearing thin for me...
- Richard Badge
from Nambu
I think current security is such that if you are worried you would need to have your own private sandboxed server. Really though that is just using Wave as a CMS system rather than anything else - there would probably be easier ways to get the same functionality. I think the key will be having trust mediated through specific gadgets, robots, and of course people. At the end of the day, put something in an email and someone can forward it to anyone. The same applies here as soon as you add a participant.
- Cameron Neylon
Leveraging FriendFeed for authentic science education - http://scienceoftheinvisible.b...
Andrew Perry, Daniel Mietchen, Khader Shameer and 22 other people liked this
I'm looking for input on this, so comments please.
- AJCann
from Bookmarklet
hm, interesting, AJCann, my comment would be: why be prescriptive (only) - students are inventive, let us see what else THEY might think up for everyone's science-related benefit, let students teach us about what they like doing on the web and where - and build these possibly upcoming habits into OUR research processes :-)
- Claudia Koltzenburg
While I tend to agree in principle, these are first year undergraduates Claudia, and they need quite a lot of guidance at this stage of their careers, otherwise the majority would flounder.
- AJCann
One of the nice things is that it is open ended. Prescriptive provides them a way in but there is plenty of opportunity to take it further if the student finds it useful and engaging
- Cameron Neylon
good points, thanks, and, yes, well, I am not officially teaching ;-) so your experience is certainly based on larger numbers of students. In running our OA journal, we do continuous wiki-based co-training, so I am mostly learning, really, from my Russian student assistants - and that is fascinating, hence my observation :-)
- Claudia Koltzenburg
AJ - looks like a good plan. So far I have not made the FF assignments in my class mandatory (worth no more than 2% of final grade) but I do that because I have about 200 students. With smaller classes it certainly could work. BTW - I don't even teach RSS anymore :)
- Jean-Claude Bradley
I have 200 students :-) I wonder about RSS, FF is a sort of halfway-house replacement to a full strength RSS reader like Google Reader.
- AJCann
ouch - that is a lot - I look forward to seeing ways you found to be effective for managing. I've only got 30 with mandatory wiki projects and it is bit tough to keep up.
- Jean-Claude Bradley
I found this thread through the Friendfeed on Twitter group. I'm really excited to connect to all of you!
- Holly Rae, FFer
I ran Friendfeed past one of our students last night. They were quite enthusiastic, in fact a bit worried about getting addicted to "Facebook for science" and wondered if they'd be able to get any "work" done.
- AJCann
That's great AJ - are you using a group or a room for your students? - it would be cool for my students to interact with yours on FF - I'll mention it at my class tomorrow.- I've told them in an informal way to pay attention to this room http://friendfeed.com/cheminfo - we could also set up a joint room where our students can learn from each other how make the best use of FF for their research projects
- Jean-Claude Bradley
Sadly, our course started 4 weeks ago and we went with Google Reader and delicious rather than FriendFeed for this year. I now have to wait a whole year until I can roll this out. How I wish I could turn the clock back 4 weeks!
- AJCann
too bad - next time then
- Jean-Claude Bradley
"we could also set up a joint room" - sounds like a very good experiment to me, it could be a public room, of course
- Claudia Koltzenburg
I will never set up a private room on FF - defeats the purpose
- Jean-Claude Bradley
:-)
- Claudia Koltzenburg
Private rooms can be useful for some purposes, e.g. administration, data archiving.
- AJCann
yeah there are uses, they are just rare. for example, it is possible to import private rss feeds (such as facebook notifications) and manually screen them
- Mike Chelen
I am willing to acknowledge private rooms might have some applications - sometimes it just feels good to be categorical :)
- Jean-Claude Bradley
AJ -- I've done something similar to this, but using a reader, academic bookmarking system, and class blog -- students (undergrads, but 4th in this case) got to choose reader and bookmarking system. None would use Delicious b/c it wasn't sufficiently "academic" looking, nor does it have the citation tools they crave. But we communicated through the class blog, which was not so bad b/c...
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- Mickey Schafer
I'm more than happy for you to try out FriendFeed - please blog the result! :-) Although I'm generally in favour of a personal learning environment consisting of a distributed toolset, there's no doubt that this is difficult for students used to being force-fed institutional systems such as VLEs to get their heads around. In this regard, something of a Swiss Army knife like FriendFeed is attractive, as long as it doesn't turn into a cul de sac which doesn't lead anywhere.
- AJCann
Thanks, so much! My intention is to get a blog started in January, maybe February 2010. Blogging is a much scarier prospect than FF has been...
- Mickey Schafer
Making teaching sustainable - http://www.bioscience.heacademy.ac.uk/resourc...
The Centre for Bioscience was awarded project funding by the Higher Education Academy ESD group to produce a series of short information sheets to support bioscience teaching staff in making their teaching practices more sustainable.
- Terry McAndrew
How I learned to stop worrying and love FriendFeed - http://scienceoftheinvisible.b...
Chris Jobling, Dan Freeman, Holly Rae, FFer and 15 other people liked this
I've neglected FriendFeed for a while now, for the same reasons you list in your post. I think the duplication of Twitter feeds was the main culprit. I'm going to remove my Twitter feed from here now and see if I can make FF work for me again.
- Joss Winn
Overlap = overload, definitely a bad thing in the case of social networks.
- AJCann
I have hidden all Twitter in FF for a long time (unless replied to) I removed my own Twitter feed from percolating into FF to stop them appearing in my FB news feed each time I tweeted.. I don't think FF is the place to aggregate Twitter talk I have to say..
- Daniel Swan
I agree, but I only figured this out recently, and most of the people I used to follow here haven't figured it out yet. The very ease with which you can add RSS feeds to FF is a problem in that regard, leading to repetition across networks.
- AJCann
nice!
- Dan Freeman
I'm very interested in how you will use FF in education - it went well for me in my organic chem class - too early to tell if students will take to it this term in cheminfo retrieval
- Jean-Claude Bradley
I hide all Tweets that are not commented upon or liked, maybe I should do as I would have others do, and stop importing Twitter here myself?
- Simon Cockell
Interested to hear how you used Friendfeed with students JC - did you blog about this?
- AJCann
AJ - yes blogged about using FF and SL in class here http://drexel-coas-elearning.blogspot.com/ and under the Networking section of this paper http://usefulchem.wikispaces.com/SLchemP... The actual assignment is here http://chem241.wikispaces.com/extracr...
- Jean-Claude Bradley
Thanks.
- AJCann
Great strategy, Thanks for sharing it..
- Eric Logan
I'm getting requests for a video version - I'll have to see what i can do :-)
- AJCann
like to import everything but the kitchen sink to friendfeed, as long as there are no duplicates
- Mike Chelen
Beginning to realise that there is a slight difference in the medium too. My perception of the FF post/ aggregator means when faced with the blank posting box I am far more likely to look for some 'web object' I want to share rather than give the sort of status update I would on Twitter. The social glue with FF seems to be founded in conversation and comments around items and objects....
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- Jo Badge
from iPod
Jo, that is exactly what I think is the important difference! Great to see someone coming to the same conclusion. Maybe I'm not completely mad.
- Cameron Neylon
from twhirl
So what you're saying is, there are two cultures? :-) That's exactly why I need two networks. Have we just started writing a manuscript in this thread?
- AJCann
From the non-Twitter side, I find tweets by themselves, appearing w/o context in my chat client from people I follow just plain annoying and near-useless. But if tweets are in relation to an item or object as Jo said, that's different.
- 'Mummi' Thorisson
..unless I'm being silly and there is a way in FF to e.g. filter out say Deepak's tweets, or only receive his blog posts?
- 'Mummi' Thorisson
I agree, but much less so since I learned how to use the selective hide functions.
- AJCann
Mummi, yes there is - http://www.vimeo.com/1130659
- AJCann
Thanx Alan! excellent UI design, this - the FF developers are a bunch of geniuses/genii. Honestly.
- 'Mummi' Thorisson
OK, paper started ;-)
- Jo Badge
Slideshare has the ability to sync audio with slides now. That is awesome!
Jo Badge, Brian Krueger - LabSpaces, Bill Hooker and 4 other people liked this
Follow up: You can sync slides with audio, but if you want to embed youtube movies you won't be able to. The software apparently only lets you do audio or video and not both. Kind of a bummer but oh well.
- Anthony Salvagno
Did you give Camtasia a try?
- Jean-Claude Bradley
Not yet. I haven't put much effort into the making of. I do think I will give it a try for my actual talk. Have you ever used Cam Studio? It's free and does the same thing (supposedly) as Camtasia and I was just wondering about the comparison.
- Anthony Salvagno
I've tried to use CamStudio over the years but always had a problem with the output in a format suitable for uploading. Camtasia allows you to edit audio and video and output to many different formats. But recently I've been uploading FLV files directly to SciVee - which gives me high resolution and tiny file size. I think CamStudio outputs FLV - maybe try that and let me know?
- Jean-Claude Bradley
I saw your presentation but no audio, how'd it go?
- Diego
The web as a tool - rather than a threat - http://www.slideshare.net/Cameron...
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Eric Logan, Slavomira Vladimirova, Claudia Koltzenburg and 11 other people liked this
Better late then never ;-)
- AJCann
These end up being a bit of a monster so require decent upload bandwidth to get them up there. My poor home connection is struggling somewhat.
- Cameron Neylon
So you're claiming it took 5 days to upload them? :-) Did you see the video? http://bit.ly/3J0vyS Shame you didn't go "Beep" when you changed the slide so people could follow along ;-)
- AJCann
@ajcann Richard has a very annoying doorbell noise he adds to his slide transition, keeps the students awake and then he uploads with mp3 audio recording of the presentation, so you can join the two together. I think he's the only person still using our mp3 recorders from the techdis project!
- Jo Badge
Nope. I'm claiming I didn't have a decent internet connection till yesterday and thought I deserved at least one day of rest :-) Hmmm, wonder if you could set up a high pitched sound off the computer that would be picked up by the camera but not audible? I might try and pull the audio off the video and see if I can do a slidecast at some point. I haven't watched much of the video though - can't stand watching myself...
- Cameron Neylon
I usually do a shortened mp3 for my talks which I sync up on Slideshare before the talk. I suspect people are less tolerant of me droning on online than during a talk. I know I am. As Guy Kawasaki says of PowerPoint presentations with too much text, I can think faster than this bozo can talk.
- AJCann
That's true - hence I try to put enough text on the slides to make them more or less self sufficient. Doesn't always work of course. Especially if there is a big chunk of live demo missing...
- Cameron Neylon
And video of this talk is available at: http://redux.nexgenta.com/people...
- Cameron Neylon
I actually like the single loop in the video, falls well into place in a way :-)
- Claudia Koltzenburg
Open Data: How, why, and is there any point? - http://www.slideshare.net/Cameron...
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Slavomira Vladimirova, Claudia Koltzenburg, Rafael Sidi and 14 other people liked this
I liked the slide with the sunlight coming through the window onto your electronics.
- Andrew Lang
nicely done - tells the story of the power of sharing and engaging with the research community, beyond just the story of open data itself
- Richard Akerman
@Andy the point of the slide was that that was taken on the weekend because I was frantically pulling the slides together in my "spare" time :-) But it is quite a nice picture...
- Cameron Neylon
This is also the talk that goes with the blog post at http://blog.openwetware.org/science...
- Cameron Neylon
from twhirl
Capturing Process: Challenges and opportunities - http://www.slideshare.net/Cameron...
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Berci Mesko, MD, Jean-Claude Bradley, Slavomira Vladimirova and 7 other people liked this
newbie friendfeed question here. If I comment here, will the people I that subscribe to me see the original item and the comment thread, or should I 'share' the item from Cameron's feed to my home feed?
- Jo Badge
the anotated google wave slide (64) is fascinating. The potential of using robots to reinforce the metadata and structure of research 'items' is just mind blowing. Where does your lablog originate from? is it something that other people can have - would we need to host locally?
- Jo Badge
Jo, depending on their preferences, they'll see it here (that's the default behavior)
- Deepak Singh
brilliant - thanks @deepak. I'm more used to twitter protocol, wondered if it equated to a retweet, but guess not. FF is smarter than that, cool :-)
- Jo Badge
think of sharing as forking in the Friendfeed context.
- Deepak Singh
from IM
Ah, that makes sense. I 'shared' this with a group we created when Cameron came to present in Leicester (UoLNeylon).
- Jo Badge
Jo, the LaBLog comes from work done in Jeremy Frey's group at Southampton. They've done much of the important technical work that has let me explore this stuff. Also - now that it is up I can add the additional videos in.
- Cameron Neylon
Cameron - thanks.
- Jo Badge
The LaBLog system is available but its currently in a state of flux so its a watch this space kind of thing. Looking at re-implementing in Wave and/or a complete re-write so lots of stuff going on. Also for more details Allyson "Robo-blogger" Lyster has notes at http://themindwobbles.wordpress.com/2009...
- Cameron Neylon
@Jo re: using Wave to re-inforce, collect and optimise local metadata. Yup. This fell out of a conversation with Allyson and others last week and my brain is still trying to catch up with a) what the best proof of principle is and b) where this might take us. Things like just-in-time instantiations of local ontologies which none-the-less feed and inform construction of larger ontologies, while at the same time bringing everything in a conversational form to the user.
- Cameron Neylon
@cameron blimey! extremely cool. The future is coming!
- Jo Badge
On Twitter and perhaps Web 3.0. Perhaps not. - http://network.nature.com/people...
Graham Steel, AJCann, Pierre Lindenbaum and Jo Badge liked this
It's all about your audience and mobile tools ;-)
- Jo Badge
Agh! Don't comment here! Web 3 isn't working yet!
- Richard P Grant
Well get on with it then Grant! We're doing just fine in Web 2.6 here :-)
- Cameron Neylon
heh :)
- Richard P Grant
Dang, does that count ??
- Graham Steel
RT @caffeinebomb: The video from #uolneylon is now online http://bit.ly/3J0vyS (@AJCann, @cameronneylon @jobadge) Thanks @nevali! - http://twitter.com/cyberdo...
Jo Badge liked this
About twitter: Trying to get to grips with FriendFeed - http://tw-abouttwitter.blogspot.com/2009...
Mike Chelen, 'Mummi' Thorisson, Jo Badge and 2 other people liked this
Cameron Neylon -- not as annoying as Scoble, but a great Friendfeed evangelist nevertheless
- Benjamin Tseng
Jo's original post is here: http://tinyurl.com/ykq2yj3 Mine's coming on Monday.
- AJCann
Fwd: Thinking carefully about my Friendfeed identity after yesterday's masterclass from Cameon Neylon.
Chris Lasher, Pierre Lindenbaum, Jo Badge and 2 other people liked this
sorry, file not found, other source available?
- Claudia Koltzenburg
Hmm, sorry about that - spurious link removed.
- AJCann
well, why think carefully about your friendfeed identity? (and why, maybe, particularly about your friendfeed identity? ;-)
- Claudia Koltzenburg
Yesterday we had a seminar from Cameron Neylon (http://friendfeed.com/uolneyl...) in which he discussed tools versus communities. In the educational technology community, where I spend a lot of my attention, Twitter is much bigger than FriendFeed. Last night over dinner we spent some time discussing why that is, whether it matters, and possible ways forward. I'll be blogging about this next week when I've given it a few days to sink in...
- AJCann
here I am trying to think about my ff account too. Where do I start?!
- Jo Badge
@Jo join http://friendfeed.com/the-lif... , subscribe to your friends & contacts, make your profile public if possible, add your feeds (blogs, flickr, social bookmarking etc... )
- Pierre Lindenbaum
@pierre thanks :-) Had an account here for ages, but feel I need to start a fresh. Joined life scientists and @alan I've unsubscribed from rolo tomassi ;-)
- Jo Badge
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