joergkurtwegner

I have always preferred a service like Google Docs, at least for the rough draft stages of a paper that is. Cleaner and faster to get started, especially for people who are new to those things. - Daniel Jurczak

http://blindscientist.genedrif... and http://blindscientist.genedrif... - Paulo Nuin

I'll second Egon - though it really shines if you're working in LaTeX. I've never tried to merge two Word docs via subversion. Would it work? - Rajarshi Guha

We are using Google Docs to write a grant, but people who are using it are a little bit skeptical to say the least. It's a slow progress. I never tried to merge Word via subversion, but I guess this is something to check. A quick search showed this: http://nicolas.lehuen.com/inde... - Paulo Nuin

I wish I had posted the whole series I wanted, dunno why I didn't. - Paulo Nuin

multiple editing on a word document can present some issues as it is a binary file, difficult to merge changes via svn. I would recommend LaTex - Frank

If LaTeX is an option then just go for svn. :-) - Daniel Jurczak

@Frank: most of the time, LaTeX is not an option, unfortunately. - Paulo Nuin

Google Docs doesn't seem promising - poor offline version (gears) + inability to tackle anything beyond standard documents (even emf/jpg images do not fit). - Yaroslav Nikolaev

@Rajarshi, Daniel & Frank: what's so special about SVN with LaTeX vs Word? don't have any experience with the former unfortunately...If its only binary vs ascii - one still has ability to track changes/comments from within the Word document, which might be an easier track for an average researcher ;) - Yaroslav Nikolaev

As far as free services are concerned, I've been happy with GoogleDocs for private sharing and Wikispaces for public sharing until the very last formatting step, where we generally use Word. Note that people in my field don't use LaTeX. - Jean-Claude Bradley

@Jean-Claude: what about schemes, images, etc - or you generally don't have a versioning issue on these? - Yaroslav Nikolaev

@Paulo: thanks for the plug, svn-time-lapse looks impressive! - Yaroslav Nikolaev

@Yaroslav, SVN+LaTeX is a nice combination because the latter is plain text. Therefore a simple diff allows you to quickly look at changes etc. I agree that it is not for eveybody - certainly most people in chemistry dept's do not (will not?) use LaTeX. Word's track changes is nice, and indeed I do use that when my collaborators won't use LaTeX - but the lack of branching can be a pain. But in general, I passionately hate Word - anything beyond 5 pages with many figures is simply a pain - Rajarshi Guha

@Yaroslav: My personal caveat with Word+SVN is as you've already guessed the binary vs. ascii thing. Maybe it is just a personal bias. :-) - Daniel Jurczak

More generally, when one writes regularly, the value of focusing on content rather than presentation is a huge boon. And LaTeX documents look sexier than Word documents for the same amount of effort :) - Rajarshi Guha

Its the issue with multiple editors of a binary file in svn - not word vs latex. If two different people check out the same version at 9:00am and work on it. If one person checks back in at 10:00am, the second person trying to check in at 11:00 will get a conflict because svn in not clever enough to resolve or merge conflicts in a binary file. - Frank

LaTeX looks better with LESS effort than Word. Specially now that they abolished menus in Word. - Paulo Nuin

GoogleDocs for the non-Tekkis and LaTeX+VersionControl for the Tekkis, or for the web2.0 freaks a Wiki with RTF export option, this allows post-editing in OpenOffice or Word. One good example is XWiki (Java). - joergkurtwegner

@Frank: this issue is clear! However in non-geeky context it seems easier to resolve it using Word built-in tools, rather than forcing everyone to use LaTeX. - Yaroslav Nikolaev

Any opinions on Git? It sounds more promising in terms of speed & stability (distributed system), however does not seem to have a stable Windows port so far (apart from over-cygwin version)?! - Yaroslav Nikolaev

You could consider using a WYSIWYG LaTeX editor... - Egon Willighagen

Oh, the Git port to Windows is fine, the GUI seems a little bit rough but the command line with SSH included works just fine. The git Eclipse plugin also works fine with most commands, but I had problems pushing things to Github from it. - Paulo Nuin

@Yaroslav For the projects I've been on images and figures don't change enough that it's ever been a problem. On Wikispaces I would just fix the image and replace it. Text is where the massive editing takes place. - Jean-Claude Bradley

One major shortcoming of Google Docs (and most Wikis I've seen) for scientific publications is the lack of support for numbered references - Eric Jain

Eric: that's usually the place were Zotero with its drag and drop comes in. - Daniel Jurczak

Problem with Zotero drag/drop is that it doesn't insert named/numbered citations, just the reference list at the end. The Word/OO plugins are better in that respect, but lag behind the latest Zotero release. I'm sure it wouldn't take too much javascript to get data from Zotero->Google Doc as both citation and reference, if anyone fancies a nice coding project ;-) - Neil Saunders

Neil: Well that's true. To be honest I have never used anything other than LaTeX/BibTeX for "larger" documents, so for me manual adding of references was never a major problem. - Daniel Jurczak

@Eric: exactly the point! that's why file-sharing beats document-sharing in research-paper-writing perspective - one can share a reference library along with the docs.. - Yaroslav Nikolaev

Unfortunately Zotero also suffers from inability to share the library between users/computers..they promise multi-computer sync in Zotero 1.5, and multi-user social sharing in Zotero 2.0...However we're not there yet.. - Yaroslav Nikolaev

Yaroslav: I guess you could use DropBox and put the Zotero library into the shared folder. (??) Have never tried it, so just a guess ? - Daniel Jurczak

The Zotero Sync works pretty well and you can access your database online. - Paulo Nuin

The only thing is, I guess you can't access your papers? Does it also sync up attachments, or at least snapshots? - Chris Lasher

tested Zotero 1.5 Sync (Preview): library metadata and text notes are synced over Zotero servers, while for attachments and snapshots have to use any third-party WebDAV disk (in future developers plan to employ Amazon S3 for this purpose). The problem here is that attachments on WebDAV are stored in own Zotero format (which appears as a collection of .zip and .prop files), so one would have to sync full library with metadata to dig out the appropriate file. - Yaroslav Nikolaev

There have been so many recent -omics studies of host-pathogen interactions (both physical and functional) that it would be very worth while to attempt some integration/comparative studies. One thing that is typically seen in these studies is that pathogen proteins interact preferentially with host proteins that are already highly connected. They have still to offer some biological explanation as to why this happens. - Pedro Beltrao

Timothy - do you or any of your sources transfer interactions by homology ? - Pedro Beltrao

Not to my knowledge; they are all expeirmentally confirmed interactions in PIG. - Timothy Driscoll via Alert Thingy

ack; PIGs interactions are a non-rendundant set. never mind. :-) - Timothy Driscoll via Alert Thingy

Then again, virus and host first interact via extra-cellular receptors, which are amongst the fastest evolving regimes in the eukaryotic cell and badly assessed in Y2H-screens. Regarding pathogen proteins and their degree - did any screen ever reveal a class of proteins that preferentially interacts with less connected proteins? - Roland Krause

Man, great thinking for a very often occuring problem ! - joergkurtwegner

I'm not sure how much Processing can help with ad hoc data visualization. There is still a learning and programmatic curve, albeit smaller. How can you easily load the data and provide a graphical UI to it? I played around with Spotfire a few years ago, which can readily transform any tabular data into particle plots and other agnostic yet intuitive visualizations. But Spotfire is super-expensive. Google and NYTimes are taking steps towards providing open visualization APIs. - Shiran Pasternak

I agree, I quickly looked into 'processing', and for my daily work I could not imagine to work without SpotFire, but I can ignore 'processing'. Beside, the interface in 'processing' seems not practical and flexible enough for scientific data ? - joergkurtwegner

@Shiran: "not sure how much Processing can help with ad hoc visualization". That's _exactly_ what I use it for. The scripts are often so small that they are merely "sketches" (in Processing-lingo). Even though a tool like Spotfire is very useful, it falls short when your data contains many types of information. For example: clone read pairs mapped on a genome: there are the actual mappings, whether or not they map where they should, quality values, inversions, ... Any visualization has to be custom. - Jan Aerts

In that case, do you have any example scripts you can share? I didn't mean to rag on Processing. It's a great tool (especially coming from a Java and OpenGL background), and the applications out there that use it are fascinating. - Shiran Pasternak

Jan I'd also be interested in some examples. The one and only processing sketch I've attempted is http://tinyurl.com/5r7543 to demonstrate a simple algorithm. When visualizing data I tend towards plots and molecular graphics. There's also ruby-processing http://github.com/jashkenas/ru... which you might find easier as a ruby programmer. - Adam Kraut

Just a question Cameron, do you have tenure (or whatever-they-call-it-in-UK)? - Paulo Nuin

I'm happy to be argued with. I'm interested in where the argument breaks down. Two obvious arguments. I have a salary so I can play a long game with this. I don't need to put food on the table tomorrow, so I don't need an immediate monetary return. For people who do the choice has to be to protect the ability to make a return on each item. Second one: many of these are not purely digital objects, they have a real world connection, that does make copying damaging. - Cameron Neylon

Paulo - I have a permanent position yes. I appreciate that makes it mcuh much easier for me. - Cameron Neylon

You haven't answered my question. - Paulo Nuin

Well there's not really such a thing as tenure in the US sense in the UK. You go into an academic position and get past probation to get a permanent position. But probation doesn't take as long as a US tenure track and the few people fail to get confirmed as permanent. So I have done that. But I now have a permanent position at a government research lab, which is not really an academic position at all in the sense of a US university department but more like a job at e.g. ORNL or NIST - Cameron Neylon

So if you mean do I have reasonable job security then the answer is yes, and if you mean, have I been through the fire of a US-style tenure process then really the answer is no, some similarities but not the same sudden death experience that it seems to be in the US - Cameron Neylon

Thanks for you answer, a yes or no would suffice. But the fact that you have job security tells a lot of what you support, why you support it and the naivety of some of your ideas. People that have a protection bubble around them, tend to have the same discourse that you have. It's like listening (reading) to what a public servant says in comparison to a person that works in the private sector. - Paulo Nuin

I think this is the first time I've ever agreed with David Crotty. :-) - Bill Hooker

I think Cameron is making a good point. Sure, principled arguments often seem naive because we live in a grey world, not a black and white one, but if I understand correctly, he's just cautioning against advocating "extreme openness" and then being quick to apply a different standard when openness comes back to bite you. - Shirley Wu

Not to bring up the election again, but there are many examples of this - republicans demanding less government regulation, and then when the economy self-destructs (impacting them negatively) they blame the government for not regulating enough. Prop 8 too, maybe, in a different way - either we subscribe to "equal rights for all" under the constitution or we marginalize certain groups because some people claim it takes value away from marriage - Shirley Wu

I commented as well. I also agree with Crotty :). To cut a long story short, openness cannot exist in a vacuum. You always need some guidelines. The very existence of CC and people using CC licenses, for example, is a finger in the eye of existing big media, just as the GPL and the Apache license is a finger in the eye of close source software. There is the public data commons, and again, it's a matter of choice. If we want to change the system, we need to stay within some boundaries. - Deepak

i almost always agree with david. Usually a question of degree rather than absolutes - Cameron Neylon via fftogo

So basically Cameron you still agree with the statement you wrote with no caffeine? Or you just bringing the discussion to a place that you guess you have control over? That's what it seems. - Paulo Nuin

Not entirely. Specifically I withdraw the use of the term hypocritical. What I still maintain is that it is not helpful <emp>for those people who beleive in and advocate encouraging re-use of digital material</emp> to use language of property rights when what they are complaining about is a lack of attribution. I also still maintain that <emp>if you believe and advocate encouraging the re-use of digital material</emp> then you can't then pick and choose as to what types of re-use you think are acceptable. - Cameron Neylon

Cameron, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I think in a culture where re-use was part and parcel of the process, you won't have these problems. It's why those of us who release under CC always re-use appropriately as well. It's a mindset - Deepak

Actually - Shirley put it better than I did. - Cameron Neylon

Deepak, I think I am trying to say exactly the same thing as you are. I do my best to respect copyright, licences, and any other requests the authors make. I am absolutely not advocating a free for all - but social and technical systems that encourage respect and attribution, rather than rules based systems. - Cameron Neylon

Actually I think I've crossed the wires here - what I meant by 'what types of re-use above' was that you can't choose between 'nice' people and 'bad' people re-using your stuff. I won't argue that people shouldn't be allowed to use CC-BY-NC or copyrights. I will argue that I think they are counterproductive but they have every right to use them and expect them to be respected. - Cameron Neylon

I agree your comment immediately above is a concern for some people,, Cameron. Without taking a personal view either way, at Nature we have for a year or so "imposed" creative commons licences on our genomics publications, by negotiation with the various community representatives and conferences etc. It always takes a while for these things to filter through, and this is no exception. We, the journal office, inform authors of this licence when their papers are accepted - and quite a few of them have expressed concerns to us about "bad" re-use as you put it, as opposed to "good". I think these authors are people who havenot particularly thought about it before (in common with almost all of the scientific community), and I hasten to add that nobody has objected to the CC licence - I just think it is a natural concern if it isn't a topic you've thought about much if at all before. - Maxine

I think that you (Cameron) are making a point similar to the one made by Michael Heller in The Gridlock Economy. Heller points out that it is easier to talk about (and point to examples of) the tragedy of the commons (e.g. abuse and overuse of the common resources) than about what he calls the "tragedy of the anticommons" (TAC). TAC can result when there are too many restrictive property rights governing use of a resource and the problems arising from underuse are more difficult to spot. His book is, in part, an attempt to demonstrate that more property rights are not always the answer to abuse of the commons, and also to create a new language for talking about this problem. - Hilary

Yes, when I was trying to come up with examples (both pro and anti my argument) many of them turn into tragedy of commons versus tragedy of the anticommons, and fundamentally that the application of property rights _does_ make some people richer, but that it reduces the overall value. For the argument to work, the pie needs to grow enough overall that most people do a bit better. And there will be (possibly many) cases where that doesn't work in practice. Really must read the Heller book. - Cameron Neylon

This isn't the kind of argument that you can entirely destroy by taking to its logical extreme. Of course things need some bounds around them, because as Shirley reminds us, we live in a grey world. Unfortunately, it's easier to think in black and white, especially where laws and regulations are involved. I agree that the problems resulting from underuse are harder to see than overuse, simply by nature, but I would also argue that the overuse problems tend to be more trivial. - Mr. Gunn

One other minor point - I think trademark appropriation is different than other types of IP infringement as it undermines the trust between the two parties (this was David Crotty's point). TMs are intended to identify the source of a good, and I think there is less of a case to be made here for encouraging open reuse of your trademarks. (Although resuse of Ricardo's image was technically copyright infringement) - Hilary

In other words, I have no sympathy for the people on Flickr that get pissed when someone uses one of their pictures on their site. Copy an original design and make it the logo for your company, now, that's being a douchebag, but if you're posting pictures to a photo sharing site, it's fair game to repost that picture, with attribution of course. - Mr. Gunn

Hilary ... great points, esp the Heller reference. I think if Ricardo's imagine had been used say as a graphic on a blog post, the discomfort would be much less visible. That it's being used to sell a commercial service, especially a dodgy one, speaks to this grey area that we talk about. - Deepak

Deepak, that is right. I've had folks ask me to use the logo for various other things and I've rarely said no. Someone even used it on the cover of their phd thesis. I have no problem with that. It's the simple hijacking and no-questions-asked that I don't like much :-) - Ricardo Vidal

I agree with Hillary's distinction. David made a trademark/identity-focused comment to Camerons mostly copyright focused post. Cameron then made a very nice post about the trademark/identity perspective. So I am unsure what agreeing with David means. Does it mean that the identity perspective is the interesting view of this discussion? Or that it is not important to distinguish between the properties and features of how current law works? Or that community norms will not work, no matter the domain? Or? - Anders Norgaard

After some more thought: I find the post confusing in that it starts with what seems like a discussion of trademark infringement ("The name is just a pointer", "misrepresentation") and then shifts to a discussion about plagiarism and attribution. What he (Cameron) seems to be asking is that if one promotes liberal licensing of one type of IP, ought one to support the same principle for all types of IP? In supporting liberal licensing for copyright, do you think one ought to necessarily support liberal licensing of patents? Or should we not be using the language of IP to talk about this issue at all? - Hilary

I was definitely talking about copyright, just to be clear :) - Deepak

And a related question: can the tragedy of the anticommons (if we want to call it that) occur for all types of IP? Heller makes a case for biotechnology patents, and I think there is a case to be made for copyright, but is there a case for trademarks? - Hilary

The point I think I was trying to make was that what is bad about this trademark infringement is that it is essentially either misattribution or lack of attribution. The infringer is both failing to acknowledge your work (the trademark) and also effectively attaching your name to work that is not yours. So that the bad thing here is the failure to attribute correctly because it breaks down trust between the trademark holder and its customers. Essentially my argument is that the thing which reduces value in these cases, and is therefore objectively bad, rather than just breaking the rules, is not the process of copying but the incorrect attribution. - Cameron Neylon

Unfortunately I haven't read "The Gridlock Economy" - so I will try to watch this talk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... and see I can have an opinion from that. - Anders Norgaard

My view would be that the same arguments should hold for copyright as for patents, but I'm interested in whether that breaks down. I am appreciating the strength of the argument that it may not hold for trademarks - but the question then becomes what is the best response to dealing with that? And is intention important? - Cameron Neylon

One unified perspective that I have of IP law is that copyright and patent law is made for regulating businesses. And the reason that so much of IP law gets negative attention is that the world has changed so much that normal behavior (copying, sharing, reusing) now falls under what some of these laws regulate. Therefore I also think that Camerons perspective on community norms is very interesting. - Anders Norgaard

Anders, would you feel that we can use norms within our community but we need law for regulating our interaction with business (or other communities with perhaps different norms)? - Cameron Neylon

I recently watched the Web2.0 summit one which was good but not astounding. I got the impression it would be much more involving in person? - Cameron Neylon

But its a great post discussing how and whether to use that kind of many slides approach. Andy Powell of EduServ does this very well as well. - Cameron Neylon

I've seen others pick up on it as well. I've seen many of the greats now, some in person (Jobs, Lessig, Kawasaki, Godin, etc) and they're all fascinating in their own right, but Lessig is just so unique and his delivery is just so brilliant, it changed the way I thought about presentations. - Deepak

So I need to look at a few more Lessig ones obviously - the Hardt one mentioned in the piece sounds interesting as well. Maybe for later today if I have time. Priority 1 - send a bunch of emails. Priority 2 - install Python... - Cameron Neylon

Just watched the Hardt. It's good fun, but I don't know that I like this style and could certainly never deliver it myself. - Neil Saunders

Hardt's presentation was the one that inspired me to change my presentation style completely a couple of years ago :) - Lars Juhl Jensen

Cameron, look at the TED talk - Deepak

Lars, I've completely changed mine as well. I used to take the Kawasaki approach, but find Lessig's more compelling - Deepak

Wow - the TED talk is...yeh, I get the point now... :-) http://www.ted.com/index.php/t... - Cameron Neylon

The one I saw in person was very similar to the TED talk (similar conversation space). - Deepak

This is more like story telling with powerpoint. It connects better with people and it is great to put a strong novel idea. It is great for the introduction and discussion but not very good for the results section of a scientific talk. I have been thinking about trying something like "The Word" section of the Colbert Report. I wonder if that would work in a meeting :) - Pedro Beltrao

Exactly what I thought Pedro, it's more storytelling than anything else. I don't know about the "The Word", it might work. - Paulo Nuin

All good scientific talks also tell a story, at least the ones that engage me, or at least present a context to the discussion at hand. I agree for results the Lessig approach probably won't work. I actually think the Kawasaki way of doing things (illustrative, minimalist and to the point) would be the better approach there. - Deepak

CCL is what got me into comp chem when I was back at IIT - Rajarshi Guha

which IIT by the way? I was a regular on CCL, especially when I was a hard core quantum chemist, and stuck to it till about 2-3 years ago - Deepak via IM

Kharagpur - my first question was 'how to get into QM', which led me to do QMC at PSU. But it was too much algebra. So I switched to QSAR :) - Rajarshi Guha

Bombay here :). My switch from QM to MD and bioinformatics came after my boss asked me "do you want to have a career outside academia?" - Deepak via IM

to deepak's first comment ... would that be an example of lack of infrastructure holding back development? - Gregory Lent

If you are referring to the lack of brain power at this end, most certainly :) - Deepak

lack of bandwidth, the inner meaning .. "-) - Gregory Lent

major scalability issues with a single point of failure - Deepak via IM

(check out my unofficial CCL RSS feed...http://baoilleach.blogspot.com...) - Noel O'Boyle

Next need we need is, I think, a web page that reports unexpected measurements... - Egon Willighagen

Based on user's opinions or some sort of automatic triage? It would be good to have a "bug" flagging system - Cameron Neylon

A webpage with automatic analysis... Yes, flagging items as buggy is good too. You can already use social tagging for that... I think delicious has a API to find the tags for a certain webpage, which would be http://onschallenge.wikispaces...... though this experiment is actually doing 4 measurements... BTW, I think the measured values should be reported at that page too! - Egon Willighagen

Agreed it would be good to have the data back on the page - ideally actually pulled in from the google sheet to reduce the risk of incorrect entries - I was wondering whether it would be possible with a little bit of namespacing and a Yahoo Pipe to generate an RSS feed that contained the solute, solvent, asserted solubility, link to experiment. - Cameron Neylon

With CMLRSS that would be easy... - Egon Willighagen

Got some other stuff to finish first, but will then have a go at it... - Egon Willighagen

Egon - yes I agree that the final results should be pulled out of the spreadsheet and put into the results section - I added that comment http://onschallenge.wikispaces... - Jean-Claude Bradley

Egon/Cameron - I would like to see more automation but the methods and calculation are just too diverse (speedvac, UV, GC, etc) to hard-wire in the notebook. I'll try to be on top of the SolubilitySum to filter out results obvisouly in error: http://spreadsheets.google.com... - Jean-Claude Bradley

That spreadsheet in the intended interface for automated interaction with the data (for now). We have 125 entries now and it should work to at least 1000 for both human and machine readability. - Jean-Claude Bradley

BTW, regarding automatic flagging of data points. It'd be quite easy to highlight data points that are say, 2 or 3 sigma beyond the current mean solubility - Rajarshi Guha

The sol query page now highlights 'outliers' - Rajarshi Guha

But not compared to the global solubility, right? - Egon Willighagen

Instead, I'd flag duplicates of which the difference is more then 1 sigma of the global SD... - Egon Willighagen

@Egon, well depends on the query. The calculation is performed on the rows of the result set. So if you select the hwole dataset, the highlight won't be meaningful. If you select a single solvent then it makes more sense. - Rajarshi Guha

ah, ok... well, "all, all' is my default query :) - Egon Willighagen

Jean-Claude, what I had in mind as a data stream was to suggest just reporting the following in the notebook "Solute(InChi):Solvent(InChi):Solubility(M)" and then trying to pull these out of the RSS feed to generate something that give a feed that provides Solute, Solvent, Solubility and the link. - Cameron Neylon

Oh, and while I remember, was at a workshop on Saturday run by OKF where I talked about this and they asked two things in the context of promoting best practice. Can we put an explicit "open data" stamp on everything (as far as possible) and is there a URL where the SQL can be directly downloaded for re-use? - Cameron Neylon

SQL? It's not using a DB anymore and directly queries the Google spreadsheet. To get the code just save the HTML page and take a look at the Javascript. or just copy the page to another web server - Rajarshi Guha

Oops OK - I misunderstood your post on that. Actually that all makes more sense now. So all the underlying data is available - which is the important thing. The idea is to promote specific examples of good open data sets and I wanted to push this as an example that doesn't avoid the issues of messiness and errors, but equally that means ticking some presentational boxes - Cameron Neylon

Indeed, this is also a nice example of not having to replicate the data, avoiding possible errors, being in sync with the raw data -all made possible by it being open (and accessible) etc. - Rajarshi Guha

Yours? - Deepak

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu... - Paulo Nuin

Lars, is there a deep-linking syntax? E.g., how does one get "315959" in this direct link to BCR's neighborhood: http://stitch.embl.de/cgi/show.... Custom ID? - Andrew Su

@Andrew: Depends on what kind of ID you have, the kind of stable deep link would be: http://stitch.embl.de/interact... (but this is not a unique identifier of the protein). Guessing BCR_HUMAN as SwissProt id works in this case: http://stitch.embl.de/interact... - Michael Kuhn

"315959" is just an internal id that will change with the versions - Michael Kuhn

Bummer, no other stable external ID then? Ensembl? Refseq? HGNC? for some reason, I find SwissProt to be the hardest to link up to other databases via a unique identifier... - Andrew Su

Ensembl ids aren't stable either, for STRING 7 / STITCH 1 it's Ensembl 36 or so, for STRING 8 it's Ensembl 40. You can try the other ids, for BCR HGNC seems to work: http://stitch.embl.de/interact... . If you want to do it programmatically, there's a "resolve" call in the API: http://string-stitch.blogspot.... - Michael Kuhn