Chatting with my colleague and co-host, Joseph Smarr, Plaxo’s chief platform architect, I asked him for his thoughts on the new API. He said, “This is a truly awesome API release. It shows that Netflix is genuinely committed to giving their users full control over their data, and doing it with open standards like OAuth and a familiar REST interface with JSON and ATOM output. Developers couldn’t ask for more, and I’m sure we’ll see incredible uses of this API popping up very soon. We’ll certainly be using it at Plaxo!”
- John McCrea
My favorite, "A lilbertarian is a Capitalist Hippie."
- John Ahrens
John, I think your comment may have ended up on the wrong post.
- John McCrea
More bad economic news: http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm... Manufacturing index plummets in September -- this is showing that the credit crunch and consumer confidence is hitting our manufacturing hard. The falling dominoes are about to head from finance to elsewhere in economy.
imran: yeah, I'm here at Inc and Fast Company magazines and we're not seeing a good way to get out of this because people are hoarding and not spending. That's psychological. But the other part is the very real credit crunch, which is also cutting our ability to buy things (business and personal). That's where these numbers are coming from.
- Robert Scoble
saw on google finance that fewer jobs were lost in august then other months this year. that has to be some good news :)
- Jonathan Jesse
Come on, people, get out there and do your patriotic duty and shop!
- Justin Long
@Robert I don't push you but trying to turn chessboard for you, to see different picture -- are you sure that credit makes you able to buy things? _maybe_ it creates that illusion? never thought that credit (true one) is actually selling your future incomes and _at_ the bottom line you do _not_ get more money only _less_? I'd rather to avoid personal comments here.
- A.T.
Possible worst case: credit markets freeze up and many businesses cannot meet their payrolls
- imran
There are two types of credit...personal credit, which we use like cash to purchase things...and business or institutional credit which businesses and corporations need in order to do business. Think about it...when a company builds something, they don't have the cash in hand to do it because they don't get paid until someone buys it. They NEED credit in order to function.
- Alex Scoble
If you need to borrow money to pay your employees every month, you don't have a business.
- Adam Turetzky
The US Dollar inflation isn't going to help (up 4% in 2 days against a range of currencies)
- Steven Cains
Adam, do you really think that a company like Microsoft actually has the liquid cash in hand to pay their employees?
- Alex Scoble
So, when are people going to start blaming all of this on 8 years of George W. Bush, the worst president in the history of the country who is leaving office with the national affairs in such a mess, just like everyone who didn't vote for him warned, that it will take us decades to recover?
- Adam Turetzky
Yeah that doesnt sound good. Credit is an integral part of doing business in this day and age. It is a means of leveraging for future growth in nearly all aspects of the business model of pretty much every company. The banks that are healthy are being so bearish that even companies and individuals with immaculate credit are not getting loans.
- Geoff Schultz
Alex, yes. And after being in business for 40 years and one of the most successful and richest companies on the planet they better.
- Adam Turetzky
Microsoft is a bad example of a company that needs credit to pay their employees... they have millions (billions?) in the bank that can be liquidated quickly. But smaller companies, especially those that just started and those that offer services instead of products (which our economy is becoming based on) may have more of a need. One big company != a lot of smaller companies... a "lot of smaller companies" probably employ more people (and therefore could end up laying off more) than one big one...
- Fa La La La Lindsay
I'd be willing to bet that right now Microsoft cannot quickly turn their billions into cash very quickly...and therein lies the problem. What used to be liquid 2 years ago is now not so much.
- Alex Scoble
Well one good thing, at least *someone* won't be able to raise taxes now.
- Spencer
Exactly Alex, the whole concept of using credit as our bank accounts while our actual money is tied up in an asset somewhere else with the hopes of it earning us more is the real reason this credit failure is so bad. All of a sudden their money is tied up in god knows what and they have no bank account.
- Geoff Schultz
Microsoft is a ridiculous example. They operate in the black in the billions of dollars. The number one criticism of them buying Yahoo for 40 billion was they'd have to borrow to do it. Anyway. I'm not going to profess I'm an economics expert, far from it, however, anyone with common sense can realize that having a business plan that requires you to stay in perpetual debt, isn't a business plan. And again, doing this is what gets us here.
- Adam Turetzky
You'd never be able to run a construction company, Adam.
- Alex Scoble
Companies with solid balance sheets and good credit ratings will not have a problem getting credit. There is always money to be made by loaning to these companies. Example - Duke Energy just took a $1 BILLION draw on their credit line. Yesterday.
- Brian Newman
There was a point last week when that wouldn't have happened. And that's why everyone in Wall Street is scared.
- Alex Scoble
The sky is falling? The glass is half full, folks.
- Mattb4rd
Any engineer will tell you that it's impossible for a glass to be half full, or completely full or empty.
- Alex Scoble
There was a point last week when the credit crunch was worse? Worse than yesterday after the bill didn't pass?
- Brian Newman
Yes. There was a point last week when institutions couldn't get the billions in credit that they need in order to keep running. Also for the first time ever, the oldest money market fund in the US broke the buck (IE lost money).
- Alex Scoble
Restructuring / rightsizing will make a huge come back
- imran
@Alex - Do you have a citation for that? I hear credit freeze being tossed around a lot. All the numbers show it is functioning correctly. Those with good credit ratings can get credit. Stats: http://www.federalreserve.gov/release...
- Brian Newman
I'm am just interested in seeing some facts about the "credit freeze" instead of all the FUD that is floating around.
- Brian Newman
It was on NPR last week. And yes those with good credit ratings can get credit, it's just a lot more expensive to get it than it was 2 years ago.
- Alex Scoble
Let's put it like this...institutions (before this mess) were able to dial up someone else and get billions (with a B) of dollars in credit pretty much immediately and for low rates. Right now they are having to do paperwork for millions worth and are paying 3 times the interest.
- Alex Scoble
Much as we hate it, we NEED bad economic news. We've avoided a recession for 14 years by propping up the economy (through two administrations, both parties) and the longer we put off the inevitable, the worse it will be. Much like a forest fire in land that hasn't burned for 60 years rather than the usual 5-12 years. See http://www.pbs.org/cringel...
- John Ahrens
@Alex - And that is a bad thing why? Easy credit is what caused this mess.
- Brian Newman
Again, the link I provided to the Fed numbers show that hundreds of billions, with a B, of dollars of commercial paper are still being sold daily. To the tune of 175 - 200 billion, with a B, dollars a day. The numbers are current through 9/30 and updated daily. I am looking for some statistics to refute this. Not more FUD.
- Brian Newman
Credit has stalled and is in nose dive. * Money markets frozen, financial ice age setting in * Uncertainty prevails, crippling bank lending
- imran
"He is actually proposing a brand new tax on the middle class. This has gotten so little attention it is astounding. And frightening, frankly, as television reporters and commentators focus instead on inane incidents like the lipstick-on-pigs remark. McCain intends to tax workers for the value of health insurance that they receive from their employers."
- Jeremy Toeman
from Bookmarklet
This was mentioned in an NPR Fresh Air interview a couple weeks ago. The tax is supposed to be offset by a $5K tax credit, but that will hardly cover most expenses incurred including the new tax.
- Jim Goldstein
This may not be as bad as it sounds. One of the major problems with health care today is that so many people have essentially no control or say in costs, since the employer provides the insurance, and decisions are made between the insurer and the medical facility, not the Dr. and patient (or only partly). Personal medical plans and even better, health savings accounts, get the consumer of the service back into the position of having a say in what's done, and at what price.
- John Ahrens
Making all medical insurance tax exempt would be better, but not likely to happen.
- John Ahrens
It's not a just a new tax, which would be bad enough. The idea is to drive people off of employee-provided healthcare and into the private market. Those who choose this route will be given a tax credit. But since private healthcare is so expensive, especially for families or anyone with a pre-existing condition, the tax cut is no where near adequate. So only healthy people will take it. That will leave employers with only the most expensive people subscribing to their plans, which will drive up costs.
- Kevin Pedraja
It's kind of funny how conservatives think that it's OK to let poor people not have health care, because we all know that things like multidrug Mycobacterium tuberculosis knows how to respect class lines and would never infect someone who was rich. Just wait until the anti-vaccination hysteria reaches the tipping point (it won't be long now), and all these kids start showing up with polio again.
- Victor Ganata
Saw a good one yesterday. "I don't trust either presidential candidate as far as I can throw a whole truckload of dimpled chads." Pretty much my thinking as well.
- John Ahrens
An excellent look at how to approach the headlines, on any subject that tries to use math, or science to make a point. Applies at other times too, but not just global warming, which is the examples he uses.
- John Ahrens
This is great. Apple can't say that they bring all the internet because they don't support every possible technology. Miracle Grow gets away with claiming their organic fertilizers have no chemicals, like that makes any sense at all.
- John Ahrens
More gloom and doom. I remember back in the late 60's early 70's we were supposed to have food riots by 1980 IIRC, according to the Club of Rome. Before that Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring" predicted environmental disaster of unimaginable proportions. Those are only a couple of the expected disasters that didn't happen. Seems that people, and the planet, are more resilient than the doom-and-gloomers want to believe. Of course, they often have some agenda that includes government control of our lives as part of their goal.
- John Ahrens
Having served in that role for a Governor, I can tell you the cross-agency politics are maddening and incredibly difficult to navigate - even at that level and even with the full support of the Chief Executive. At the federal level, across the entire Executive Branch, I can’t even begin to imagine how compounded that would be compared to my own experience… Having said that, I do think...
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- Anthony Citrano
One more thing - I agree with Lessig (at least what he seemed to be saying) - you need someone who is both geek and evangelist. But also, that person needs a huge amount of political / diplomatic deft, the ability to negotiate, and (while bold) they do need a sprinkling of personal humility. Find me *that* among geek evangelists… ;)
- Anthony Citrano
Robert, are you looking for a new job? ;-)
- Jordan Hofker
the problem is cross agency politics as Anthony mentioned. I do a lot of consulting work in state and local governments and it seems that the department that sets IT policy for the entire state doesn't understand what each agency does, so the individual agencies ignore the "standards" setup by the state CIO. I think this would be even worse on the federal level were no one works togther...
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- Jonathan Jesse
also it seems that greed just becomes a factor as well in what technology they use. sales staff love the lucrative contracts which the federal government provides which is why we have 3 million dollar toliet seats
- Jonathan Jesse
@ Anthony Citrano--I like the idea of a strong CTO, but who would that be? Mike Arrington? I think a huge problem here is that a vast and diverse skill set is needed for the job. I agree with you on the qualifications (tech nerd, known and respected in the tech community, a great speaker, and very politically savvy), but I really don't know of any people who can fulfill that role. I wonder who Obama will find for this position if he wins (not when).
- Brian Wilson
Actually, when I read the article, my first thought was Arrington, but I think he may be "too abrasive" for that post. Basically the same reason Scoble would not be a good fit. They would tell people how wrong they are, and it seems like you really have to walk on eggshells in those political circles. Paul Graham is an interesting idea, but I do not think he would be interested in a demotion :)
- Rob Diana
Someone from Microsoft..they could make Vista mandatory that way
- Michael VanDervort
from twhirl
I am not trying to be a troll but there are a number of reasons why I think this would be extremely undesirable. I understand the attraction of having someone tasked with understanding and advancing a tech-related agenda but I have to wonder how many innovations would still be little more than a thought in someone's mind if this position had existed already. There are some actions that require government involvement and there are others that thrive without it. Not enough room to get into it but I vote no
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
the US CTO s/be like Sam Pitrodo of India !! He is a hecka kewl guy with a lot of tech vision. He created the Indian Telecom and IT infrastructure landscape that exists today ! Go figure -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... !! BTW C-DOT was a great place in em old days to gain technology stuff in india !! :)-
- Peter Dawson
Vinton Cerf - Since most people probably have no idea where the phrase 'surf the internet' even came from ??!! (plus he knows the international landscape)
- Charlie Anzman
-quote - "tech nerd, known and respected in the tech community, a great speaker, and very politically savvy" and an academic. The academic piece is very very important. A show stopper IMO.
- Kevin Gamble
Bill Gates! He is about old enough to start his political debut! Plus it would be really hilarious.
- Geoff Schultz
You can't argue that Bill Gates wouldn't be a good choice IF he was completely removed from Microsoft. If he still had an interest in MS it would be very similar to GW and DC having a stake in oil companies winning contracts in Iraq. Vint Cerf would be my other choice, he just seems more diplomatic.
- Devlin Dunsmore
from twhirl
Not Lessig -- he's a zealot and we already have too many of those in Washington. Meg Whitman maybe -- built a huge business and had the good judgment to get out before it tanked. Ironically, since she's such a close adviser to McCain, Carly Fiorina probably stands a better chance.
- Sprague D
Scoble, you announcing your campaign? You know I come out of politics if you need a solid campaign manager :-)
- Richard Binhammer
Richard and Jordan: I have no interest in being in politics and I don't have the skills to do this job properly anyway, even if I was interested. Thanks for the ego boost, though!
- Robert Scoble
@Rick Wolff: Why don't you want the federal government to be tech savvy surely that was in jest... The better we can automate through technology some of the business process the more we can cut pork that isn't needed and save us money by eliminating taxes.
- Jonathan Jesse
here's a winning strat: pick a politician (CTO) *and* an engineer (Dir of U.S. Tech). this is the pattern used by embassies. The ambassador is the 'front' the one who attends parties, travels, gives, speeches, pushed policies. the 'head of the embassy' is the 'technician' the one w/ the real skills in lang, culture, history of the region, etc.
- MikeAmundsen
Robert...yes you do have the skills, youd be a perfect candidate :-)
- Richard Binhammer
Arrington?? Arrington?? Sorry, but that's hilarious. God, what a circle-jerk this "social media" world can be. Thinking about a guy like Vint Cerf, on the other hand, starts to make sense.
- Anthony Citrano
It's possible the people best for politics are the ones that have little interest in it.
- ·[▪_▪]·
Scoble, if you get named USA CTO we're definitely doing a photowalk in the White House.
- Thomas Hawk
robert: funny. just commented on a call for a national CTO yesterday. bottom line; we need a cabinet position with real tech policy authority and it should be the commerce secretary: http://463.blogs.com/the_463... -- we really should grab coffee to talk tech policy
- Sean Garrett
I am still having a hard time understanding why everyone wants to create a position that grants someone the power and provides them with a huge bully pulpit to advance tech policies that, at some point, will invariably benefit large tech-related businesses at the expense of smaller innovators and users. Again, I understand the desired outcome of the idea but the unintended consequences are massive....
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
...Creating a cabinet-level Tech Czar post will not guarantee adoption of efficient practices by govern bureaucracies any more than having a cabinet-level Labor issues czar effectively ushers in sweeping changes in support of federal workers.
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
Marco, true, having a cabinet position does not guarantee anything, but having "bully pulpit" with no authority does guarantee ineffectiveness.
- Sean Garrett
Efficiency in government is not necessarily a good thing. A certain level of sand in the gears reduces the amount of interference the civil "servants" can force into our lives.
- John Ahrens
I've read Robert's post and I fail to see any connection between those people and a CTO. Indeed, the named ones are great people but most of them have nothing to do with a CTO.
- Alex Popescu
So the Android is coming soon. If that early, I'll have to wait for a comparison between Android and iPhone. Problem is, T-Mobile's coverage area sorely lacks.
- John Ahrens
Must hit cities? New York. New Orleans. San Francisco. Jackson Hole. Chicago. I haven't been to Miami yet, but I hear that's pretty nice too. New Orleans is still my favorite. I hope it comes back. I probably would start with New York, though. That's probably the best tourist city, with SF a close second. But, what kinds of things do you like? If you like Museums I'd head to Washington DC. If you like wine or being outdoors, San Francisco.
- Robert Scoble
I'm a city person first. I like shopping just like my wife. :-)
- Håkan Dahlström
Start in the middle and work your way out. Kansas City, MO is one of the most beautiful cities in the country.
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
San Francisco and Boston would be my first two.
- Mark Jaquith
from twhirl
NYC probably, but SF is nice given the proximity of Napa, Monterey, Tahoe, etc...definitely NOT LA
- George Lee
from twhirl
This time of year? San Francisco and the surrounding Bay Area.
- tagami
Trevor: personally there are a lot better cities to visit than LA. Sorry. LA is better than Atlanta, though, unless you're a CocaCola fan.
- Robert Scoble
I'd say Boston, New York, San Francisco. I second the "stay away from LA." And I live an hour away from it.
- Mohit
New York. Los Angeles (Santa Monica, OC beaches, Whisky, Roxy, and the Troubadour on the Sunset Strip). San Francisco I cannot recommend, but that's because I've been here too long.
- Jeremy Brooks
@Trevor I thought that was more of a region than a city.
- Sam Pullara
I would start with Rugby, North Dakota. Not too different from Svalöv.
- Rutger Blom
A second on New Orleans. And Robert, it's creeping back, especially in the Quarter. But I think many of the changes are permanent.
- Chris Baskind
New York City is #1. But it really depends on the person. Museums (Washington DC) Live music (NYC, Nashville) Beaches & Beach Life (LA - Venice Beach, Manhattan Beach, Malibu) Cafes & Intellectual conversation (Boston) Food (NYC) Night-life (LV) Professional Dance (NYC, SF, LA, Chicago, LV) Musicals (NYC, LV) Friendly people (Texas cities, Seattle) Mountains (Yosemite) Clothes & Style (NYC, LV) Classical Music (NYC) Movies/Graphics (LA) Colleges (Boston) Architecture (SF, NYC, LV, Boston) To-Live (SF)
- Mitchell Tsai
I would start off in Chicago. I love my city of Miami, but there you get a beautiful big city, beautiful food, beautiful music, and the friendliest big city people you will find almost anywhere. It is fantastic. After that you can hit the big cities, but do not fail to hit small towns across America for a real flavor(good and bad) for what the country is like.
- Brad Nickel
Time of year is an important consideration: Right now start in Boston and drive/amtrak/bus to Washington DC stopping at Westerly RI, New Haven CT, NYC, Philadelphia PA, and Baltimore MD. On the way, you can pick from hundreds of other stops depending on your interests including the best beaches on the east coast. From DC fly to San Francisco or Seattle and drive to the other.
- Luke Gedeon
I have been to NYC twice, still waiting for a chance to see more cities (and that space in between them, what do they call that). I am very afraid The Big Apple is the one that will stay favourite. It felt really European too.
- Ruud van Wijngaarden
The fall or spring would be a better time to catch the southern cites. They are a bit more spread out though, so there is no, start here and drive to.... Plus in the South spots outside the cites tend to be more interesting. But the majors in the south are LA and San Diego (beaches not city), Nashville, San Antonio, New Orleans, (definitely not Atlanta), Tampa FL, Charleston, NC, Virgina Beach, VA.
- Luke Gedeon
To understand America, you must (MUST) hit Las Vegas. There is no city that better encapsulates everything the nation is about. The rest are academic, but I'd encourage you to see Chicago, New York and San Francisco.
- Aidan Biggins
Just noticed your comment about really being interested in the city itself. So I would say Boston and NYC. Together they cover the scope of US cites and they are geographically close which makes things easier. Chicago, Atlanta, LA, Las Vegas and a dozen other big cities are just NYC clones. San Francisco, Seattle, DC, Philadelphia, and others are well represented (and a bit one-upped) by Boston.
- Luke Gedeon
Stay out of a city and visit the heartland. Go to a smaller town and just have a drink in a bar and chat with the locals. If you are coming this Fall, I'd strongly suggest catching a college football game at one of the larger Midwestern or Southern schools. That's an eye-opening experience most visitors never ever see firsthand.
- Andrew Leyden
Well if you are planning a long trip, I'd do Boston to New York to Philly to DC. Great cities and they are so close to each other by train. Then you need to get on a plane to San Francisco, the most beautiful city in America. Down to LA then over to Las Vegas. If you are going to the US for the first time, you are really not going to want to watch a college football game.
- PC Easy
@Andrew Leyden they call it flyover country for a reason ;)
- Sam Levine
To everyone that has suggested the heartland (aka flyover): Yes it is beautiful. It is a great place to live and to visit. And honestly, you have not really seen America until you have seen the small towns, but when giving travel advice you have to take into consideration what your visitor wants to see. There are two very different America's. Not as simple as Rural vs. Urban, but that is kinda the idea. Dahlstrom specifically said he is interested in cites. We can save the heartland for others.
- Luke Gedeon
If you want to understand the US better, you need to hit some of the coastal cities mentioned above, and also the heartland as Robert mentions. Then you'll better understand the diversity that makes this country great. By the way, no one mentioned Seattle or Portland, If you're doing the corners, the Northwest is unique as well.
- John Ahrens
Actually the real answer should start with a question--which ocean are you crossing on your way here?
- Andrew Leyden
If you like donuts, green spaces/natural beauty and microbrews, Portland is a great place to visit.
- Alex Scoble
You can't complain about being Roved; you've got to Rove. It's a disgusting situation that the Rovians have created. Unfortunately, a critical mass of Americans thinks politics is synonymous with "professional" wrestling. If Obama looks soft in taking abuse from the McCain camp, he's going down.
- Sean McBride
presidential campaigns were much dirtier in the 1800s
- Jeff Quinton
I read someone's take on the Google perpetual Beta. In today's agile web 2.0 world, the product is changing probably almost weekly, so it really is never finished enough to call "complete"
- John Ahrens
On purpose or by accident. I work in web advertising and I don't think I've ever purposefully clicked on an ad. I've done so by accident when there are those ones that flip up half the screen and you can't click on anything else on the page but the ad.
- James Ferguson
I clicked on @garyvee does that count?
- Robert Scoble
People actually click that stuff? I avoid it like the plague and assume it's a virus.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
I obligatory click to support people :)
- Mona Nomura
Probably a few weeks ago when I wanted to check out if that's something I was searching for. But it was not.
- Jianjun Zhang
from twhirl
I rarely click on Internet ads. Can't remember the last one I clicked I know that it had something to do with jazz. None in the past five days.
- James
I like saving cool ones for animation ideas
- videopixil
There are ads on the Internet. *turns off Adblock Plus* oh, I see what you mean.
- Morton Fox
I was trying find out who from a 1800 number calls me like 5 times a day, so I googled the number. A paid result for YellowPages.com saying, "Reverse Number Lookup" got my click. The landing page failed, though, it just took me to the home site, not the reverse lookup page.
- James O'Malley
from twhirl
Me, never. But ask a different demographic and you'll get a very different answer. Slashdot users are famous for not clicking on ads, but less tech saturated markets seem to click a lot more than we do.
- Brad Collins
from twhirl
I don't think I have clicked on one in a long time. I know that back in the 90's I've probably clicked on pr0n ads. :)
- Jay Cruz
haven't clicked an ad in ages unless it's one of those annoying fill the page ads that won't go away
- maryn
with ad blockers it becomes easy to ignore ads but then are we helping or hurting businesses
- Fuad Arshad
I've clicked on the Google ads on occasion when the ads that came up in a search looked like they fit what I was looking for
- John Ahrens
I've clicked on conference, professional education or cause-related ads - nothing else that i can think of... @hackmer
- Michael Hackmer
I've occasionally clicked on the sponsored links on the right side of Google search pages... but that is it.
- Mark Philpot
Yesterday may be around five times, sometimes ads are more relevant than search results
- sirishkumar
I click on ads if to support websites I like sometimes and the sponsored ads on Google.
- Michael Zitek
ny republicans are already pushing for rudy to be the next governor. :(
- eric mortensen
from twhirl
I thought he resigned after that thing with the prostitute in DC? Didn't he?
- Thomas Hawk
I could care less about this guy one way or the other, but I will say any one of us can look like an idiot in a still frame moment, especially when talking. I do a fair amount of concert photography and I toss plenty of otherwise great shots because of the stupid expression a moment can capture when singing.
- Jeremy Hall
I hate this idiot! He destroyed NYC! I miss Koch! And I do not care that is gay! And I do not care that Woody Allen is a pedophile! Great people are always fucked up somehow!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
I swear he looks like Colonel Klink from Hogans Heroes.
- Mo Kargas
"Lured by an offer of interviews with the Democratic presidential candidate, Brian Williams, Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric will make the overseas trek, meaning that the NBC, ABC and CBS evening newscasts will originate from stops along the route and undoubtedly give it big play."
- newsjunk.com
And they wonder why we think they're biased?
- John Ahrens
Hell's Gate is truly awesome! also note that the mountains to the east are the Cascades, while the mountain to the west is the Coast Range, separated by 110 feet of raging river.
- John Ahrens
I like the comment about planning with pencil and paper rather than computer. It's easier to just rough things out on paper than on the computer. I recommend a white board as even better for starting.
- John Ahrens