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Jordi Soler › Likes
Google's been on fire as of late. Within the just last week or so, they've brought out an astounding number of projects and products. Let's list them here.
Chase, David Foucher, LogEx and 7 other people liked this
GWT Chrome plugin
- Maxamad
Golang
- Maxamad
Bought Gizmo5
- Maxamad
Closure tools
- Maxamad
Acquisition of AdMob
- Maxamad
SPDY
- Matt Mastracci
Dashboard
- Maxamad
Sorry, jumped your list. :) It's been a productive week for them, that's for sure.
- Matt Mastracci
Google Latitude Alerts and Location History
- Mark Layton
World Bank public data
- Mark Layton
1080P in Youtube
- Mark Layton
Google Parental Controls: Lock SafeSearch
- Mark Layton
@Matt: No man, that's awesome. I want people to add to the list :)
- Maxamad
There's a few in here that I didn't see this week. Wow.
- Matt Mastracci
There was a blogpost I read yesterday with quite a few more; wish I could find it. Was from a FF-er too
- Maxamad
I *used* to joke about Google being the NSA.
- LogEx
Designer Duo Create Dress With 24,000 LEDs - http://www.wired.com/gadgetl...
Katie: Witch Of The West, Laura B., PENGUIN: MAJOR CAPS LOCK and 4 other people liked this
"Next time you compliment a woman at a party that’s she glowing, it may literally be so. Two London-based designers have created a dress embroidered with 24,000 full color LEDs. The ‘Galaxy Dress’ claims to be the largest wearable display in the world and it will be the centerpiece of an exhibit at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. “We used the smallest full-color LEDs, flat like paper, and measuring only 2 by 2 mm,” say designers Francesca Rosella and Ryan Genz in an e-mail. “The circuits are extra-thin, flexible and hand-embroidered on a layer of silk in a way that gives it stretch so the LED fabric can move like normal fabric with lightness and fluidity.” The duo run an interactive clothing company called CuteCircuit."
- Derrick
from Bookmarklet
A-ma-zing!!!
- Jordi Soler
That's the way to light up the night.
- Sarah June
Video of the dress: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Derrick
The Next Big Trend? It's All About Curation - http://www.steverubel.com/the-nex...
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Stefano Mizzella, Zio Bonino and Jordi Soler liked this
The Guardian/ 100 years of great press photographs: http://www.guardian.co.uk/artandd... (via http://friendfeed.com/jouzta...)
Tyson Key, Jordi Soler, Mark Essel and 2 other people liked this
""The picture was taken in the Altai territory of Russia, right in the border regions of Kazakhstan. It shows the second stage of a Soyuz rocket in the crash zone where they come down to earth. You can see them fall during the day, and usually hear the big bang as they hit the ground. These things are made out of pretty good metal too, so a lot of the locals make a living chasing rocket parts, before selling them as scrap. If you look very carefully, you can see that the white things all around them are butterflies or moths." Jonas Bendiksen is a Norwegian photographer based in New York."
- Kol Tregaskes
Reshare my Graham: http://friendfeed.com/jouzta
- Kol Tregaskes
rww: Google Executive Says Companies Can Get Rid of Microsoft Office...Next Year http://bit.ly/3pBtYL - http://twitter.com/rww...
Alex Kapranoff, Amiram امیرم, Jordi Soler and 3 other people liked this
I'd rid the world of Microsoft if I could.
- Bill Scherer
gDocs is good to type and share plain text documents with very little formatting. Even simple things (like a table in a word doucment) are a pain to use in gDocs.
- Kirill Petrovsky
Sounds like Google is cooking something up!
- Mark Layton
Based on what?
- Jordi Soler
Make Yourself Eligible for an Office 2010 Starter Beta - Office 2010 starter edition - Lifehacker - http://lifehacker.com/5403172...
Jordi Soler and Russellreno liked this
Microsoft Office 2010 will offer a free, ad-supported "Starter" edition, in addition to its regular, rather pricey offerings. Beta invites are already going out, and you can increase your chances at a spot by filling out a quick online survey.
- polou/indigo_bow
from Bookmarklet
I took the survey.
- Russellreno
Surevey complete
- jamar78
Nicole Kidman reveals her love life has been kinky as she opens up about 'strange sexual fetish' encounters
| Mail Online - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...
Elli, R1CC1, Mahmood Padura and 5 other people liked this
"She has always remained tight-lipped about her 10 year marriage to actor Tom Cruise and vows she will take all her secrets to the grave. But in one of her most revealing-ever interviews, Nicole Kidman let slip how her experiences of love ranged from ‘mundane’ marriage to ‘strange sexual fetish stuff’. The 42-year-old actress, currently married to country singer Keith Urban, said her life had been about exploring different types of love. ‘I’ve explored obsession. I’ve explored loss and love in terms of being in a grief-stricken place, I’ve explored strange sexual fetish stuff, I’ve explored the mundane aspect of marriage, and monogamy,’ she said. But while she confessed she had previously experienced the ‘mundane’ side of relationships, she described her present marriage as ‘raw’ and ‘dangerous’."
- RAPatton
from Bookmarklet
She seems strangely asexual to me. Maybe that's because she was with TC for so long.
- Derrick
I think she's speaking of her character in "Eyes Wide Shut", not of herself.
- Jordi Soler
Gyah...NK...HIDE HIDE !!
- Mo Kargas
No, Jordi, she has explored all the strange sexual fetish stuff herself, possibly including wearing things like this: http://friendfeed.com/pattonr...
- RAPatton
LOL! Well, what I meant is that somehow, in a very weird way, she feels like her character in EWS. Or that she'd like to be her.
- Jordi Soler
She's on my life list of things to do.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
from fftogo
I saw someone on TV the other day . . . and thought . . . guess who's going back into rehab -\
- Chris Loft
After applying the amount of salt one has to take a Daily Mail article with, what's left?
- Andrew C
she's other-worldly, in my opinion.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Well, obviously my take on Nicole Kidman and her sexuality should be seen as moot point.
- Derrick
nah... happy to hear it. she's not a huge diva in the drag world. probably a reason for that.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
"I Think the Google Logo Designer Is Having Marital Problems" - http://www.collegehumor.com/article...
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Charlotte Mazeyrat, Amber, Random Time Lord, مـــــــــمد and 4 other people liked this
FF used to pull in Twitter updates immediately. Now there's a lag of nearly an hour. What gives?
Mike Chelen, Jordi Soler and Arda Çetin liked this
It's Twitter's new API
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
The API is work in Facebook just in time :)
- Arda Çetin
Twitters version of Net neutrality. :) This is how it will be if AT&T has their way.
- CW™
something must be wrong from twitter's side, other services like identica are instantaneous
- Mike Chelen
BBC NEWS | Health | Curvy women may be a clever bet - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2...
Mark Douglass, Stoyan Zhekov, Baard @ Pixum and 47 other people liked this
"Women with curvy figures are likely to be brighter than waif-like counterparts and may well produce more intelligent offspring, a US study suggests. Researchers studied 16,000 women and girls and found the more voluptuous performed better on cognitive tests - as did their children. The bigger the difference between a woman's waist and hips the better. Researchers writing in Evolution and Human Behaviour speculated this was to do with fatty acids found on the hips."
- RAPatton
from Bookmarklet
"In this area, the fat is likely to be the much touted Omega-3, which could improve the woman's own mental abilities as well as those of her child during pregnancy. Men respond to the double enticement of both an intelligent partner and an intelligent child, the researchers at the Universities of Pittsburgh and California said. The findings appear to be borne out in the educational attainments of at least one of the UK's most famous curvaceous women, Nigella Lawson, who graduated from Oxford."
- RAPatton
*feeling markedly more confident about the size of my hips*
- tiffany
There are so many ways I could get in trouble with this. Let me just leave it at: curves good.
- MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS
*feeling markedly less confident about the size of my hips*
- joey
*feeling markedly more tumescent about the thought of Nigella Lawson's curves.
- Christopher Harley
Mmmmmm, Nigella Lawson!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Curvy Women are the best. They know how to make me purr. :D
- Danny Minick
Oh Joey... hips is hips ... brains is brains... and "research studies" are (generally) suspect.
- MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS
Obvious question: Were the test scores graded on the curve? :)
- jeff hammond
and Jeff wins!
- MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS
Barry, I know. I'm not really fretting. I know my intellectual strengths and weaknesses despite my sad lack of hips. It's just sad that every time a story about women's bodies comes out, someone has to be the 'loser.' There is another story going around about how men don't actually like size 0-2 women and I'm just thinking (flippantly) well good thing I was lucky enough to land myself...
more...
- joey
The studies always say "this is better" instead of "it doesn't matter". To me, it's a sad statement about humanity that things like this are studied and that we can't get along being different. Yeah I'm thin, but no I'm not a bitch. Yeah I wear a small but no I don't find perfect fitting clothes everywhere I go. Yeah I'm skinny, but no I'm not healthier/more desirable/more whorish/richer/shallower/dumber then you. Whatever are differences are, the least of them is weight. SO fricken divisive.
- Heather
Joey - In my younger days... when I was single and *cough*, young, I used to remark that I liked 'em with a pulse. I like my women, well... female? I dunno. There have been large women that I've been very attracted to and "curvy" women that didn't do it for me at all. There have been women that I've liked on sight that I couldn't get away from fast enough once they opened their mouths....
more...
- MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS
I can finally justify my Oreo habit! It's critical to my er...intellectual growth!
- PetuniaGreenBeans
Barry, female friends of mine have said that my "type" is WOMEN. There are curvy women I have the hots for, thin women, & everything in between.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Preach my brother.
- MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS
funny bulls hit 'science' .. probably funded by US government money, or cosmetics industry ..--- it'l be that "attractive women", unfortunately, in capitalism, will get 'better' paying jobs, attract more wealthy partners, and so will get better education, better educated partner genes - because education and healthcare is not for poor - and so will end up having also more intelligent and better educated children ... this changes nothing on a thesis that being republican /robber baron/ is a genetic disorder
- Petr Buben
This was published on 12 November 2007.
- ashish
"relatively low down" haha
- anna sauce
hooray!
- Melissa
Everybody's looking for something,
Some of them want to use you.
Some of them want to get used by you.
Some of them want to abuse you.
Some of them want to be abused.
Some of them want you to use the Eurythmics' Sweet Dreams (are made of this) as today's genius seed
Kol Tregaskes, Thomas Hawk, Alfredo and 17 other people liked this
Heal by Catherine Wheel
- VAL D.
Marilyn Manson did a really good cover of Sweet Dreams. That was the first MM song I ever heard.
- Joey Gibson
Nowhere Girl by B-Movie
- Jordi Soler
Fade To Grey by Visage
- Jordi Soler
But Not Tonight by Depeche Mode
- Jordi Soler
...and last but not least Hyperactive! by Thomas Dolby (video not to be missed!: http://www.youtube.com/watch... )
- Jordi Soler
Oh, I thought it was a nostalgia game! Anyway, they're all great songs. Genius is doing a great job.
- Jordi Soler
I've been curious though. Is it not distracting and/or frustrating to have to come over here and type the songs?
- Araceli
Emma Thompson's Name To Be Removed From Polanski Petition This Week [The Fugitive] - http://jezebel.com/5400588...
RAPatton, vicster, Jordi Soler and Thomas Hawk liked this
The Droid fails AS A PRODUCT when compared to Palm Pre and iPhone - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Keith Bennett, Jakala, Marco Castellani and 8 other people liked this
wait for it its Motorola wait for others
- ffcode
I wish I could install android os on iPhone like bootcamp is used for windows on mac os snow leopard.
- ashish
AS A PRODUCT...can it fail as something else?
- Ahmed Fathalla
Ahmed, I believe Robert is trying to distinguish between the product and the platform.
- Louis Gray
Seems strange that after more than 2 years nobody has been able to top the iPhone. This speaks very high of Apple ...and very low of the rest.
- Jordi Soler
I read in FT about Android OS that there was update known as 1) cupcake 2) Donut 3) Eclair and now speculation, 4)some bakery product beginning F and then 5)something beginning with G, probably "GPhone" ? I hope that update will bring something to cheer.
- ashish
I forgot to add that the next Android update is called "Flan".
- ashish
ashish, great deduction there... it's well known that their OS codenames have been derived from pastry... and one could also assume that the alpha and beta OS versions were pastries starting with the letters a and b, respectively, of course.
- Chris Heath
Droid may not live up to the iPhone standard. But, to the extent all platforms are innovating to catch up to Apple, we all benefit from better products.
- Chris Rogers
Here is the link to the FT article- http://www.ft.com/cms...
- ashish
FT fail http://friendfeed.com/ccheath...
- Chris Heath
Sorry, Just go the Google and type "Google starts to reap rewards of smartphone openness" without the quotes and it should display the webpage without any hassle.
- ashish
Background material: http://www.cyberpotato.net/...
- Michael Slattery
That's too bad. Verizon is my current carrier and I'm overdue to upgrade my phone. I'm a Mac fan and would love to own an iPhone but there's no way I'm putting up with AT&T's bad coverage to do it.
- Spidra Webster
I'm still waiting for the HTC Passion to drop. It looks like it will be better than the DROID
- Shevonne
KICK-ASS - In Theaters April 16 - http://iamkick-ass.com/
R_ C, Herb Hernandez, Alex Scrivener and 14 other people liked this
Trailer November 22nd, Film Release Date April 16th
- RAPatton
I stopped reading the single issues because it seemed like I would enjoy it much more as a collected trade. The movie stuff, though, makes me want to pick it up.
- Jason Toney
I just put my copies of the first 5 issues up on ebay on Saturday. Did the 6th issue ever come out?
- James Ferguson
Tell me how 5 ended and I'll tell you if there was a 6th. The most recent issue was the one where Kick Ass was tortured and you found out what was in Big Daddy's suitcase. I don't know if that was 5 or 6; I think 6 issues are out and the 7th will be the final
- RAPatton
I don't think that was issue 6, so I guess it came out. I don't even remember Big Daddy having a suitcase.
- James Ferguson
The things you don't know about Big Daddy could fill a briefcase
- RAPatton
That is a stupid name for a movie.
- Danny Minick
Danny, it is the moniker of the Protagonist
- RAPatton
...what? (Googles "moniker")
- Danny Minick
The protagonist decides he wants to be a Superhero; after a failure where he ends up in the hosptial brutally beaten, he tries again and ends up on youtube where he is christened "Kick Ass" which is a perfect wannabe name
- RAPatton
I see Twitter imports have slowed down again.
Mike Chelen, Jordi Soler, Roberto Bonini and 7 other people liked this
Gosh, the fast importing only lasts a few days then it's gone for ages. :-(
- Kol Tregaskes
en effet. ça marche pas...
- Polluxe
It's been this slow for a while, now. :(
- Tyson Key
I normally just manually push it
- jamar78
Tyson, it's come back in short bursts. Now slow again. :-(
- Kol Tregaskes
I don't see any of my tweets, twitpics or Flickr uploads from today.
- Nick B.
It's really bad, that I lost my real-time view to Twitter from FF :(
- Aleš Roubíček
yeah like 21 hours lag
- ffcode
Yep, yesterday mornings tweets came in overnight. :-(
- Kol Tregaskes
I read in another thread that the FF team confirmed they have lost the firehouse from Twitter. They are trying to fix it (and not sure if that accounts for the looooong delays) but I don't think it's just a FF issue
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
*shrug* I can live with it
- Mo Kargas
hope it gets fixed, might try using identica more otherwise
- Mike Chelen
It's much easier to honestly criticize than it is to honestly compliment.
J. Abdul-Qahhar, Alex Scoble, Clare Dibble and 2 other people liked this
But the latter will get you farther.
- Cristo
I would like to honestly compliment you on this post.
- Louis Gray
That's because there's usually far, far, far more to criticise than compliment.
- Mark H
How beautiful. I wonder if admiration and awe are more complicated feelings to express, or we just do not learn how to express them as well.
- E-Advocate Network
Criticisms are more economically productive while compliments are more socially productive.
- Mitch
The evolution of communication - http://9gag.com/gag/13912
Ertuğrul Erkan, R1CC1, Ritu and 4 other people liked this
Live review: The Pixies get in touch with their B-sides | Pop & Hiss | Los Angeles Times - http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_b...
Jordi Soler, Baard @ Pixum, Kurt Starnes and 12 other people liked this
"Wednesday night at the Hollywood Palladium, in the first of three concerts there, the Pixies kicked off a U.S. tour commemorating the 20th anniversary of their 1989 college-rock classic "Doolittle." So what did the band open with? A string of obscure B-sides that even bassist Kim Deal admitted she had trouble remembering. Proudly noisy and unapologetically arty, the Pixies kept mainstream success at arm's length during their original run, which ended acrimoniously in 1993 after a stint opening arena shows for U2. Yet thanks in part to postmortem praise from the likes of Kurt Cobain (who famously called "Smells Like Teen Spirit" his attempt to replicate the Pixies' sound), the band's reputation grew over the next decade, and in 2004 members reunited to the delight of old and new fans alike. At the Palladium, where the celeb-studded audience included Benicio Del Toro, Chloë Sevigny and that guy who played the nefarious gang boss in "The Crow," the Pixies demonstrated how little age has...
more...
- RAPatton
from Bookmarklet
"What once sounded feral and primitive came off as crafty and assured, particularly during "Wave of Mutilation," a perfect union of melody and fuzz, and "Hey," which swung harder and more nimbly than it does on "Doolittle." No argument with experience here; more of the countless indie bands the Pixies have influenced should consider learning how to play their instruments. Yet it wasn't...
more...
- RAPatton
oh, hell, yeah... but "Wave of Mutilation" as anything but feral? i'll have to hear this...
- T. Brent, technopeasant
"I am un chien! Andalusia..."
- T. Brent, technopeasant
you know, i love the pixies, but the version of teen spirit that came out was so slick i could barely hear the resemblence to the two bands. it wasnt until butch vig's mix came out on the box set a few years ago that i really got it...
- Terry O'Fee
i need to hear that, too! *rubs hands in music-loving glee*
- T. Brent, technopeasant
http://www.youtube.com/watch... the quality on youtube isnt so great, but hear those drums! and the ending the guitar bit drags on,
- Terry O'Fee
i hear it. you know, i like dave grohl a lot, especially the work he did with nirvana... but i sometimes think he built a career around the first 20 seconds of Surfer Rosa.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
i think dave's a better drummer than he is in the fooies. i love his first two albums but after colour and the shape, i kinda got bored with them...
- Terry O'Fee
http://www.youtube.com/watch... i love this version more than the album version :)
- Terry O'Fee
nice! you know that "rowring" they do on the chorus? i still find myself doing that when i'm in certain moods. :)
- T. Brent, technopeasant
my fave "row" comes from a metal song - "biotech is godzilla" max just comes out with this "godzilla... ROOOOW" it's so cheesy you gotta laugh
- Terry O'Fee
LOL
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Terry - That version of River Euphrates is amazing.
- Kurt Starnes
isn't it?? they did that with a few of their singles, re-record the song completely. wish bands still did that occasionally today... :)
- Terry O'Fee
where is the good "feral surrealism" in today's music? can anyone point me in the right direction?
- T. Brent, technopeasant
bowie did an awesome cover of cactus which challenges the original. 'yall have heard it, haven't you??
- Terry O'Fee
nope. love. that. song. in fact, i have an idea for a cabaret piece, involving that number... and i can only imagine what Bowie would do with it. :)
- T. Brent, technopeasant
loveitloveit. but im a huge bowie fan too, and maybe a little biased. (note - bowie is a HUGE pixies fan. he appeared in one of those pixies behind the scenes documentaries a few years back talking about how much he loves their work)
- Terry O'Fee
i'd love to see it, too. i heard that he was disappointed when he'd heard they'd broken up... i can imagine bowie invited his friends over to whatever palace he was living in, popped the cd on and said, "Listen to this!" as "Debaser" kicked in...
- T. Brent, technopeasant
i dont think it's hard to find.. they showed it on australian tv one night before one of the reunion concerts. i had a copy of it somewhere ...
- Terry O'Fee
bowie's pretty switched on. he's one of the few oldies ;) still around that still really gets into new music, unlike the rest who think rock and roll died the moment lennon did ....
- Terry O'Fee
please don't get me wrong... though I'm "of an age", there is a LOT of contemporary music out that I love. but there was a ballz out glee in the surreal, with that primal nuttiness, that the pixies have/had that i have difficulty finding in any bands out now... I'm thinking maybe Liars?
- T. Brent, technopeasant
when i said oldies, i meant established artists around his age that doesnt think rock is dead. i mean look at the rest of them, the stones, macca, ac/dc they all love talking about chuck berry and the greats but close their minds as soon as its a new band. sure, there's a hell of a lot of shit out there today but a lot of good stuff if you search too..
- Terry O'Fee
ah. i misunderstood. sorry.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
if memory serves, david byrne tries to stay connected, too... not like bowie, though
- T. Brent, technopeasant
and though he's not as old, mick marrs keeps popping up all over the place. lol
- T. Brent, technopeasant
byre, he's more 80s though, isnt he??
- Terry O'Fee
70s - 80s, i believe... that new york thing...
- T. Brent, technopeasant
yup. formed in 1974... Talking Heads, that is. Not David Byrne. :)
- T. Brent, technopeasant
well i know the 80s music sounds more dated, but they're a little more switched on. look at gabriel for example.. :P
- Terry O'Fee
i quite liked the "Real World" run that Gabriel had for a while, there... but now? don't know where he is.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
http://www.youtube.com/watch... love this song he did with deep forest.. he's a little crazy :P
- Terry O'Fee
that was a great video. never heard the song before... quite trippy, too... i swear i saw gabriel in the flames, a few times, lol
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Los juguetes más populares en Navidad, por año desde 1960 (ING) - http://menea.me/h90x
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Jordi Soler liked this
Yağız, Necdet (nec) Terkes, fettah and 15 other people liked this
siktir
- irasare ®
深喉~
- junrxu
hey maşallah.
- burakma
o ne amk :D bro o kadar art mart ekledik cart die neler soktun gözümüze :D fğewlfwüflwe
- aranduril
dildomu böldüm de emdim vay.
- burakma
aranduril, yeter artık, hep art hep art olmaz ki...
- ilyas eralp
siyah saçlı kızın saçını beğendim.
- Kübra Özçelik
@burakma Beeen dölümü kazandım da içtim, dildomu böldüüüm de yediiim
- Deli Profesör
ahuhuahha :) süper laf, ölmeyin emi
- Aydın Gürer
bi bu kalmıstı sanırım görmediim :D
- sertacgezici
Bu hanimlari kiniyorum ve bunlara laflar hazirladim
- Ozkan Altuner
..o esnada fonda "ikimiz bir fidanın güller açan dalıyız" çalmaktadır..
- Mehmet (mak100) Akyuz
Ama yazik ya, nasil da istahli istahli cabaliyorlar.
- Ozkan Altuner
Oyş!
- Arda Çetin
siyah saçlı olan belladonna. diğerini çıkaramadım.
- kandanadam
özkan , ekmek parası napaqrsın :D
- Doritos değil Panço
Deep throat!
- boynew
su dökün şunların üstüne hüst!!! bürst!!!
- Sarp Tüzün
omg!
- Ümit Orhan
holy shit sweet Jesus
- Bugra Celik
naptınız.
- Ergin
VAAAAAŞŞŞ :D
- FıratAydın / motorizedeli
Niyet neydi, ne oldu akıbet...
- M. Serdar Kuzuloglu
buuhhuu
- Besim Dönmez
igrenc..tukmuklu tukmuklu...
- Ozgur Demir
oh be sonunda biri igrenc dedi suna.
- Rabia Sozkesen
Hay küçük dilini eşşek arısı beceresiceler.
- Seval Aslan
oha çüş diyorum...
- sencer || secogiga
tamam friendfeed toplamis icerik olayini, digital marketing filan bi yere kadar abi zaten...
- Enis Orhun
Enis Orhun +1....
- adrina
@Enis cok iyi yorumlamis...Belladonna....
- Tahir Zaimoglu
Belladonna'yı twitter'dan takip ediyorum bu ara. Çok orijinal şeyler paylaşıyor.
- Orkut Murat Yılmaz
iyi anlaşıyorlarmış demek ki. yoksa biri diğerinin midesine şutlardı o dildoyu :)
- Yalçın Erdemir
kardeş payı
- Sercan YILMAZ
@mak100 hihihiiuu
- Ali Rıza Shmuggle
İğrenç.
- Muzaffer KESKIN
o kadar büyük ve uzun şeyin tamamını nasıl alıyorlar anlamadım. var bi kamera hilesi de hadi neyse..
- Wanted
Gördüğüm en güzel "share"lardan biri!
- Cüneyt Durukan
che schifo
- sonia123
---> ha bi de öbüştükleri yitmiyo dimek ki bunlara. (gif'e yorum yazmak)
- sezyum
belladonna is the queen !
- fettah
kütahya porselen mi yazıyo onun üstünde :s
- Serkan Avcı
vitra cam sanayi malıdır.
- Ali Taşçı
nanina dildo. dildo anam dildo. hiç görmedim ben dildo. dildo naninaa :)
- Orçun Çokdiker
I tend to agree with Scoble about the "forum problem", but at the same time I really like seeing comments. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think it's less of an issue if you keep groups relatively small. re: http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Marc Dong, John Serra, Bertrand Doux and 80 other people liked this
I think the current FriendFeed approach is close to optimal. Do you not see it that way?
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
FF has the inherant ability for the user to take control, both of what they see and the comments they allow. If a user is judicious in their lists and/or filters they should see mostly relevent content (IF that's what they actually want to see). The ability for a poster to moderate comments on their own post gives us the ability to avoid trolls/spam and/or steer the conversation (again,...
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- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Scoble and other "super users" have this problem much more than regular people because they have thousands of subscribers. This is also part of the reason that Twitter probably works better for celebrities -- it's more of a broadcast channel.
- Paul Buchheit
They could have a million subscribers and it wouldn't be an issue, Paul: turn off comments on his FF posts and it would be all broadcast all the time. It's the number of people they choose to subscribe TO that is the issue. To be honest, it's like someone walking into a football stadium and then complaining that it's too loud. If one chooses to follow thosuands of people one must surely expect that the amount of 'noise' is going to increase.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
One thing that was tossed around a while back was the ability to disable comments from anyone you're not subscribed to: that'd allow those with a lot of subscribers to have high-signal conversations that their subscribers can still see and gain value from.
- Mark Trapp
Perhaps he'd like a 'hide user' button similar to FB? This would prevent the "brings people into YOUR life that YOU DID NOT INVITE!" effect... of course the conversation could be rather disjointed. Maybe a small 'additional comments hidden' status that would show them when desired... Of course, without the conversations, FF == twitter?
- Eric Borisch
Paul, can you help me test something? :)
- directeur
The features that would make FF optimal would be to let users follow each other's hides and blocks. For most users this would be a nice, small improvement. For users like scobleizer it might make a huge difference. Of course, implementation details matter.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
The problem is that we don't keep groups relatively small. There are always those who are like me who like to connect, for one, but even normal people add tons of people to their groups. It's just natural. I remember I was first to add 1,000 people to my Twitter account and people thought I was weird. Now thousands of people do that.
- Robert Scoble
One thing with Facebook is they capped it at 5,000 friends. Which kept it from being used by super-connectors but also caused it to be seen as a place where you talk with just your real life friends. Now that public pages are coming on strong, we're seeing that change.
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: the FriendFeed approach is far from optimal. Many, many people told me they don't like joining a forum and like just lurking instead, which is why they chose Twitter (Tim O'Reilly is not the only one who told me this). Tim Robbins likes that on Twitter he can listen to his heros. He sees it as a learning engine. Those of us here love FriendFeed because it lets us talk. But it definitely turns off lots of people.
- Robert Scoble
Paul: the solution is to let us toggle comments on and off. Give the USER CONTROL. If they just want to listen to their friends, hide all the other noise. But then give us who like commenting ability to turn that back on.
- Robert Scoble
You have the ability to toggle comments on and off: Edit -> Disable Comments.
- Mark Trapp
Robert, comments _are_ content.
- directeur
Mark: that is on a PER ITEM BASIS though. Totally useless for what we're talking about.
- Robert Scoble
directeur: yes, but they are content a LOT of people don't want to see or deal with.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, but then you'll be a megaphone broadcasting "your" views.
- directeur
Robert has the same comments (or the same potential) on his blog as he does on FriendFeed, so I don't think it's the comments themselves. I think it's the fact that FriendFeed makes comments almost on equal level as the original post, instead of burying them way down at the bottom of a page or requiring a click to view. Out of sight, out of mind, right?
- Daniel Sims
Nothing in the API precludes someone from writing a FriendFeed client that hides all the comments so you just see a river of feed items. That's how Twhirl, AlertThingy, and all the native iPhone apps implement FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
I have two arms. I barely use my left one. Please cut it off!
- directeur
Turning comments off entirely would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If you could authorize other users to delete comments on your items, you could minimize the forum problem.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
directeur: that's right. That's what most professional publishers want.
- Robert Scoble
I really think the "comments are awesome, why would you ever want to get rid of comments" argument falls on deaf ears at this point. The solution ought to be how to turn off comments if you want to get Scoble (or the people he's saying he represents) back on the FriendFeed train, or to say they're not worth it. I do think if it weren't for the comments, there'd be at least a half dozen other things Scoble or people like him would come up with to not like FriendFeed at this point.
- Mark Trapp
I like the idea of having another options to disable comments for people you're not subscribed to. That way you can allow conversation, but limit it to people you "know" if it makes you more comfortable or limits the noise. I think you should have the ability to set the option as a default for all new posts but be able to override it on a post-by-post basis: 1) public comments 2)...
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- Her Lindsay-ness
Her Linday-ness: I want that but it would be hard to design.
- Robert Scoble
Mark, I think you make a valid point but then the question becomes: if there are no comments, is FF still the best medium to use? If so, then the ability to turn off comments on one's entire feed should be easy enough to code and implement. I suspect, though, that all things being equal (meaning: there's no ability to comment on an item) FF would no longer be the best medium for a broadcaster.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Mark: I don't think these people will consider FriendFeed at this point. Too much momentum over on Twitter. Look at the news brands: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... you're not going to get them to switch off of Twitter at this point. Sorry. That game is over.
- Robert Scoble
I think the real game is how does Facebook evolve?
- Robert Scoble
The real game is an open decentralized solution. yes, I'm a dreamer.
- directeur
Which leads everyone to wonder why you're trying to nitpick a feature like this, or base your argument on the lack of the feature. The real reason why you (and others like you) aren't into FriendFeed isn't because of the forum problem or the lack of a feature, it's because you think Twitter is better and that's where everyone is. That's fine: that's a great argument. The rest of it is inconsequential to that argument, and wouldn't invalidate it even if you got your way. So what's the point?
- Mark Trapp
I've been talking with a lot of brands and celebrities and regular people. For public studying they like Twitter better. That has Facebook wondering what it will be in the future.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: sorry, but I spent two years talking to thousands of people about FriendFeed and I'm just passing along why they didn't like it. Take that feedback or leave it. Your choice.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: did you speak at dozens of conferences about FriendFeed and Twitter? Did you show hundreds of tech influentials FriendFeed and listen to their feedback?
- Robert Scoble
But your feedback doesn't correlate to the real reason why you, and the people you say you represent, are saying why you won't ever use FriendFeed. You said there's nothing anyone could do to get people to use FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
Mark: if I want to listen to ONLY tech influentials, I can on Twitter. I can't on Facebook. I can't on FriendFeed. http://twitter.com/Scoblei...
- Robert Scoble
Robert, if you're going to pull the "don't you know who I am?" crap, it falls on deaf ears. Let's have a constructive conversation on what you're trying to talk about.
- Mark Trapp
Can't you make lists in FF?
- Andrizzle Gizzle
Sure you can: you can import feeds and lists on FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
Mark: times change and at this point it would be hard to get anyone to take FriendFeed seriously. That said, I believe that it IS possible to move people from Facebook to Twitter or Twitter to Facebook, so THAT is the real battlefront.
- Robert Scoble
any comment thread about 20+ without threading and community promotion/demotion becomes difficult to participate in (for me). Though there is a difference between discussing the radiator on a 94 Subaru and the nature of discussion forums.
- Hayes Haugen
Robert: is the problem really comments or the fact that each time an item gets commented, the items pops back at the top of the list? Regarding the noise, I think that the "problem" with friendfeed is that it was much easier for people to plug in automated feeds and that as a result, there was less of an explicit action. I do not know how other people feel about this but I really miss...
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- Edwin Khodabakchian
Mark: OK, show me your public list the way I did on Twitter. You can't do that here, sorry.
- Robert Scoble
Hayes: BING BING BING.
- Robert Scoble
Ok, so it's not about who you read, it's who you can show that you are reading.
- Andrizzle Gizzle
Bing goes the internet! lol
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Sure Twitter has a lot of momentum now, but how quickly the winds change. Frankly, it's a shame that FF is going to be neglected... I wish that someone with as much motivation and insight as Paul and the original team could take it over now that FB has consumed them. There is still SO MUCH potential in this platform that it is depressing to see it squandered. @Robert - I don't think it...
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- Her Lindsay-ness
Robert, I don't use public lists: I believe you read my blog post about why I don't. But Hutch Carpenter does, and here's his FriendFeed public list on Innovation Management: http://friendfeed.com/innovat...
- Mark Trapp
Robert, who do you call "influentials"? Do they talk "tech" all the day? Isn't it unhuman? Let's go back to spring/summer 2008, and redefine "smart" for me, please :)
- directeur
Edwin: the problem is on FriendFeed it has the chat problem -- it gets noisy and gets noisy fast.
- Robert Scoble
directeur: influentials are people who influence. I picked them. Shoot me.
- Robert Scoble
The noise is largely proportional to the circles you're in. If you put yourself in a huge room, it will be a loud room.
- Kevin Fox
Robert, do you remember the "MOAR NOISE" phrase? It was THE reason why I built NoiseRiver. Filters, I used to say when you were always saying: MORE NOISE!
- directeur
Kevin: exactly. But on FriendFeed the room gets big VERY QUICKLY because as more people join they drag in their followers with them.
- Robert Scoble
Facebook has the same problem. While we're chatting here, tons of tech news diversity have swooped by.
- Robert Scoble
So Robert, should there be something built in to "warn" others of becoming "chatty". Something that says: "This comment is irrelevant. You may post again when you have something relevant and germane to our discussion"? So WHO makes those distinctions and judgements?
- Melanie Reed
Compare this chat to http://twitter.com/Scoblei... which one brought more information to you? The chat is more fun, cause we're engaged, but it's noisy and if you don't care about it, a waste of time.
- Robert Scoble
Melanie: in a chat room you can't control people that way.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: True, but [big number]*[average number] is far larger than [average number]*[average number]
- Kevin Fox
Hayes you are correct. Slashdot has actually had the best discussion forums for more than ten years because it has threading and community moderation. Its not a trendy social networking site though so no one notices. If you had a social network site where you post topics but with Slashdot like forums it would rock. Only down side is moderators tend to inject bias but /. has good signal after moderation kicks in
- Ed Millard
Robert, I don't care about more information. I have more than enough. :)
- Melanie Reed
Does it really have to be one or the other Robert?
- Internet's Tad
from fftogo
(Where you (scoble) are the big number)
- Kevin Fox
Kevin: the problem with FriendFeed is if you and Melanie were having a conversation it would be pretty small, right? But I follow you. The second I touch your conversation it gets big.
- Robert Scoble
If only someone could figure out how to make a room that gets big very quickly appeal to broadcasters...
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
This problem doesn't happen on the private Facebook because you have two-way friending there and a cap of 5,000. But on Facebook Pages? Absolutely. Noise baby noise!
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: broadcasters don't like any of this because there's no way to monetize. Why do you think Arrington really hated this?
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I don't care about more information. I have more than enough. :) What I would like is what Tad is implying in his comment. You know you can have "...two opposites that have learned how to blaze together" ;) And excuse me, but is wrong with a big conversation?
- Melanie Reed
"The chat is more fun, cause we're engaged, but it's noisy and if you don't care about it, a waste of time. " If someone doesn't care about it on FF, they can hide it and not see it again. Problem solved.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Chatting is not intended to provide information. It is like planning -- it is the process of chatting that is what is useful not the words that are spoken/written.
- Brian Sullivan
Thank you, Tina! and Brian!
- Melanie Reed
Melanie: I love big conversations. That's why I loved FriendFeed. But most people aren't like me.
- Robert Scoble
Tina: there are so many things going by on my screen in FriendFeed that hiding them all would take all day long.
- Robert Scoble
Robert -- why is it that you think that people are like you and things should be done for your needs?
- Brian Sullivan
FF is too busy!!
- Joe Silence is not dead
Brian: again, it's not about me.
- Robert Scoble
Robert one word: APML. I used to yell it back in 2008, no one cared. You want "filters" by personal interest.
- directeur
FreiendFeed sold ME on it two years ago. I've been trying to sell others on it. The feedback I'm giving is from OTHERS.
- Robert Scoble
The Forum Problem is a problem?
- teh Dork Knight
directeur: APML will never work.
- Robert Scoble
oh dear, don't hate the messenger.
- Joe Silence is not dead
Robert: who are these "others" and what are their numbers?
- Melanie Reed
Paul nailed it - Twitter is a broadcast channel. Massive amounts of subscriptions are fine there - it's all about reach. But if you want discovery, if you want to engage, then FriendFeed and FoaF is where it's all. They're NOT the same. One you can subscribe/follow as many as you want, in the other, subscription abuse will cripple your ability to view and interact.
- AJ Kohn
Finally, a thread on this subject that makes sense.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Threading may or may not help... it seemed to hurt with GoogleWave... it was so hard to follow all the tangents... of course without threading a lot of the tangents just get lost anyway. I guess I have given up on trying to catch everything... If it's important and I didn't see it the first time, eventually the concept will bubble up enough times for me to notice. That's one NICE thing about following lots of people and participating in lots of convos.
- Her Lindsay-ness
why won't APML, or something like it, work? i missed that memo
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Robert, go say this to Last.fm or the BBC :-) Smart recommendation engines are the future
- directeur
FriendFeed may make some audience/discussion leak out, but also makes audience leak in through seeing what your friends are talking about. Arrington may be mostly concerned about the leak out. Other broadcasters may be looking for the leak in.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Marshall, me neither! :)
- directeur
Also, the meta around the content in FF (likes, comments) is what helps turns random data into information. It's annotated and qualified.
- AJ Kohn
Lindsay: true
- Hayes Haugen
Thank you, AJ, yes. And you can sort that out when you want to on your own time. That's the utility of it.
- Melanie Reed
Perhaps one solution to the 'forum problem' is to allow posters to selectively choose who can participate in the discussion but still be viewable to the public.
- Rodfather
So maybe the real question is, why do some people prefer conversation over broadcasting and vice versa? Is the broadcast-mentality simply a matter of popularity (the inability to reciprocate all the connections, so just broadcast instead) or is the effort it takes to connect with people on a more meaningful basis a major turn-off? Or is it just the tools that people use and what makes it easier for them?
- Her Lindsay-ness
Rodfather, this will bring wars. Trust me. I'm not a commercial object. So you want to SHOUT and ask me to close my mouth? :) Moreover, close comments, other threads will be started and the noise you wanted to avoid will be even greater. The Streisand Effect, anyone? :)
- directeur
For example: this discussion has 80+ comments and rolling. I don't mind that at all. I am engaged. I am also updating a web page on our web site as I do it and switching over to grade 30 some PRF's for students on the play Macbeth. I am not having any trouble with the "forum problem" or any "chattiness" I learned the "ropes" of FF when I joined and accepted that it as it was.
- Melanie Reed
To me FF turns data (the river of content out there) into information (the good stuff - explained). The tool set FF provides is superior in this way - but it takes time to dial in the right set of filters to apply to the data set (which changes!) and many simply overwhelm the great filtering system they've provided.
- AJ Kohn
A lot of people don't want to put in the time and effort to make the tool work for them like you, AJ and Melanie. I can empathize with that. I think it also has to serve their base inclination of either broadcasting or conversation, and the tool choice is also influenced by whether they already are part of a community on it or not. Most people won't leave their community even if it us using the less appropriate tool for their inclination.
- Her Lindsay-ness
directeur, then those people can make their own thread and allow everyone to comment. I'm thinking of in case there's a roundtable event where certain 'experts' in a field can have a thread to discuss a topic among themselves without worrying about others cluttering the thread.
- Rodfather
AJ, indeed - the task is to build new concepts with and for filters. Filters, not to shut stuff out, but to mix it better to create a constant flow of narratives.
- David Bausola
AJ, is it more that FF provides the platform for the users to turn that data into information? The users are integral to FF. Now with Twitter you can program a week's worth of tweets (I have heard) but I don't wish to do that. Facebook... you could almost do that-although it does have engagement -you could certainly use it without. But FF runs on an engagement engine
- Melanie Reed
Marshall: I don't trust automatic systems to guess what I'm going to be interested in next. Never seen a system yet that works. But we should debate this.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, we should debate it! The robot that makes all my decisions for me says it's quite likely I would enjoy doing that! ;)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
That's getting into intelligent agents and AI once full blown
- Melanie Reed
if you ask me, and you don't, the problem has always been lack of comment moderation and threading. Too many users isn't a problem if no one sees them. Slashdot was one of the first doing this, using an interface which is actually very similar to FF and it seems to work there.
- Vincent van Wylick
Web tech needs to look outside their dev environments for richer influences in filter design: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- David Bausola
Is the problem that Robert is looking for a single service solution. I see the same 'content' on Twitter and FriendFeed but I scan Twitter for 'raw information' and go to FriendFeed to 'discuss' it with others. I watch the news at home on TV but I talk about it with my friends or work colleagues around the water cooler or coffee shop table. I am comfortable existing in several spaces
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
@Lindsay: I don't know. I'd rather educate people on the power that FF can provide with a little effort. Or, that it actually doesn't take LOTS of subscriptions. Max it at Dunbar's number (which is what I do for my home feed) and you'd be fine.
- AJ Kohn
+++ Johnny Scotty would be proud of you: The right tool for the job
- Melanie Reed
@David: Exactly! My home feed - I tweak it. I use people like Robert and Rob Diana and Michael Fruchter and Anthony Citrano and Thomas Hawk and numerous others to bring a mix of themes and concepts into my feed.
- AJ Kohn
So are we saying that its not the tool itself...but HOW it is or is not used that maxes utility? If so I agree!
- Melanie Reed
@Melanie: Yes, the users are the key. The users are the filters. http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/soylent... And the engagement provides a rich annotation and a secondary level of filtering. So yes, users and their engagement absolutely matter.
- AJ Kohn
Sure, yes, how you use it maxes utility. But it also helps if it's suited to how you WANT to use it... if not it's a struggle. And people don't like to struggle, even if it's possible to make something do what you want it to... easier to use another tool if it fits your purpose better. FriendFeed fits my purpose so it's not a struggle for me... but for someone with a more broadcasting mindset than a conversational one, it's going to be tougher.
- Her Lindsay-ness
Vincent, most long-time FriendFeeders have spoken strongly against any sort of moderation/rating system for comments. No one wants mobs of people trying to control what other people can see like what happens on Digg. It's why every time the topic of 'Unlike' comes up, people rise up to talk it down because it creates an aura of competition and negativity.
- Akiva Moskovitz
AJ, yes! users are the filters.
- Melanie Reed
Akiva +++
- Melanie Reed
Anybody use Mailchimp here? It is tangential to the discussion. They have a cracker jack built in user educational system that monitors and makes usage suggestions.
- Melanie Reed
Is lunchtime finally over yet?
- Hayes Haugen
I'd love to peek in on the recommendation engine discussions. I'm in the 'they don't work camp' myself but I'm open to being convinced and perhaps technology has approached a point where it could work but ... from working in eCommerce I've seen it fail time and time again. Random factors, contextual issues etc.
- AJ Kohn
@Melanie: Know of Mailchimp but don't use. The 'monitor and makes usage suggestions' sounds interesting though.
- AJ Kohn
AJ, that's because the devs didn't pay attention when their instructors (ahem) were teaching it to them. ;)
- Melanie Reed
Another point I'd like to make is that no one is forcing anyone to read the comments here. If people want a broadcast-only medium, it's fairly easy not to click on the 'x more comments' link. Unfortunately, Robert makes a painful observation: he played FriendFeed cheerleader for two years and the people who needed to take the bait didn't or did but then cut loose. That pretty much means...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
Johnny: I am comfortable with all of these too, but it's not about me. But, anyway, the business battle now is between Facebook and Twitter and it'll be interesting to see the choices that Paul's team makes and how those compare with the team NK over at Twitter is making. Then the market will choose which one is best.
- Robert Scoble
Akiva: If I were at Facebook and knew that they could turn into the next MySpace I'd put every single engineering minute onto Facebook. Wouldn't you?
- Robert Scoble
Like I said before, there is still SO MUCH potential here... and it's a shame to see it squandered. I think there are a lot of ways it could be taken to the next level. For sure it could be a contender to Twitter with a few enhancements, but fat chance of that now that there is no longer a dev team, and that it's "parent" is a competitor.
- Her Lindsay-ness
Robert, here's a good example: You want to debate intelligent recommendation agents? Allright, I know that you know Chris Saad. Chris is a very cool guy in fact! But do you know Deniz Oktar? Deniz, who is not as popular as Chris, is a SMART Turkish guy too and works on the same subject. If you limit your view to "popular" people, you'll definitely miss him. And debating such a subject without alternative ideas likes Deniz's or humbly mine, won't be perfect :)
- directeur
Not sure, Robert. Is turning into the next MySpace a good thing for you or a bad thing? For me, it'd be bad.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, go take a look at (and experience) mailchimp's monitor and make usage suggestion system. It's adaptable for a number of scenarios
- Melanie Reed
I think the business battle (other than the marketing to consumers end of it) will be occupied and won by Wave. Facebook, Twitter and FriendFeed are mere toys in that world.
- Brian Sullivan
Melanie, I'm not complaining about a solution that MailChimp could provide. I'm fine with FriendFeed as it is (for the most part).
- Akiva Moskovitz
directeur: most people choose news brands to curate and find new people that will have something valuable to say. See http://twitter.com/Scoblei... for instance. That already is TOO MUCH so telling people to get more people or more things into their lives just isn't going to cut it for most people.
- Robert Scoble
Allowing public panels where only the influential can talk certainly would have a useful role, Its just like panels at conferences. A lot of people would no doubt like to just follow the influential in these forums. On the down side it would make the already influential more so and it would probably lose some audience if it was done a lot because there is no democratic engagement. The people who don't spend all their time cultivating their fame and networks do say interesting things too.
- Ed Millard
directeur: and, anyway. if he's in Turkey and not in San Francisco he's far less likely to influence tech in a major way. So I disagree.
- Robert Scoble
(FYI - look at this conversation and tell me where else anything like this could take place.)
- AJ Kohn
No, we're completely boring and worthless, Ed. We're not worth paying attention to. I mean, who wants to see a picture of our kids? ;)
- Her Lindsay-ness
IRC or a phpBB messageboard!
- Joe Silence is not dead
Akiva, I meant for those who might struggle "getting" FF but would enjoy and benefit from it once they do. There's an "on ramp" to FF that rivals North Corridor Dallas coming out of an apt complex on to 50mph+ 4 lane traffic. Some of us are better at that than others, but you still see a lot of cars on the road. :)
- Melanie Reed
There has also been a lack of creative uses using the FF tool sets. Good uses of the tools inspires participation + it's easy to criticize -- harder to create.
- David Bausola
@Robert: Whoa, whoa. Weren't you arguing that adding 8K new people from Twitter Lists was a good thing? Is more better, or worse?
- AJ Kohn
+++David
- Melanie Reed
@David: Good point, no real developer platform. That's been a big boon for both Facebook and Twitter.
- AJ Kohn
Robert, yet he DOES. You just aren't into that speciality :) If you think that every "tech" thing must happen in SF you really miss A LOT.
- directeur
Woah, Robert, so you are saying anyone who doesn't live in SF doesn't count in a tech discussion? That's a little self centered isn't it?
- Ed Millard
I understand it but I really dislike any discussions where the topic seems to be "how can we turn this thing that the people who use it like into something that people who don't use it and would only use it for selfish reasons like?" Screw them. If something's not as "techy" as Slashdot and it's more chaotic because the comments aren't threaded like Slashdot and there's no moderation...
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- Mark H
Lindsay, I want to see a picture of your kids. I only wish I had some to show back. ;)
- Melanie Reed
Ed: you are NOT a careful reader.
- Robert Scoble
Robert's not saying that those ideas can't happen, or that a true revelation can't come from elsewhere, but that ... the likelihood that someone outside of SF to influence tech is less. The Capital of the Internet is SF. I'd agree with that. But that doesn't mean it'll always stay that way, nor does it mean that tech from other areas can't be influential. (least that's how I read it.)
- AJ Kohn
OK I just read it, you still said if you don't live in SF there is very little chance you will have any influence on tech. If you have no influence then you either have nothing to say on the subject, or even if you do have something to say it wont matter.
- Ed Millard
Hrm, I think the whole thing is overblown. My personal FF landing page still has as much utility as my first day (if not more). Bleh, whatever.
- Chieze Okoye
@AJ The FF API is beautiful, I don't think dev communities saw the richness that you can create with the aggregation of FF streams. A few valley PR oriented bloggers pushed 'conversation' as FF's 'killer app' - whereas, the realtime aggregation streams and republishing of content is radical and unique.
- David Bausola
Well I'm pretty sure all the people in Seattle, Toronto, Paris, London, Moscow,Tokyo, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Beijing, Bangalore, Boulder, etc. probably disagree
- Ed Millard
@David: I'll take your word on the API and wouldn't doubt it given the FF team's chops. But fostering usage, that community - that's where things may have gotten shaky. Too few people leveraging it. It could still resolve back to an inability to really grasp what FF can do for them.
- AJ Kohn
AJ, I think you're on to something. Back in the day, usability (including general user and disabled) use to be a well-known topic. Universities made it a part of the curriculum. Everything before and including e-commerce got the once over. But it occurs that the latest generation (including GLS and SM) have outpaced the community standards for usability. It's really the wild west again-...
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- Melanie Reed
Akiva: I suspect the noise problem Robert's describing from others isn't that comment threads get too long. It's that items keep popping to the top as new comments show up, when they don't want to see the new comments. I don't see any way around that except a separate client. It would take too much away from the FriendFeed experience for the default interface not to work this way.
- Bruce Lewis
Mark, I didn't mean to suggest /. is the only solution to the forum problem. If you have really big forum discussions /. is time tested way to control noise and raise the signal level. On the other hand it would probably be a horrible solution for intimate and friendly discussions among friends. Someone earlier Lindsey? kind of had a good suggestion. When you make a post have a row of option buttons and let the poster set the kind of forum for that thread, broadcast, panel, open, modded, thredded, not..
- Ed Millard
Ed: I specifically said "far less likely." I didn't say there is very little chance. But, seriously, this is an argument for another thread. Lots of people think they have influence but actually don't have as much. For instance, I love to think I have influence on Facebook but I'm far less likely to influence that then Paul Buchheit is. Facts are facts.
- Robert Scoble
Chieze glad you like FriendFeed. Me too. It's awesome. But that doesn't mean much to the rest of the world.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, how often do you use "Add This"? It's germane :)
- Melanie Reed
OK we will agree to disagree on that one and drop it. I've lived in the bay off and on, I think there are pluses and minuses to being there.
- Ed Millard
Melanie: "Add This" being the "Add Photos" at top of FriendFeed? Not as much as I should.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: No this service: http://www.addthis.com/ This is fast becoming the SM share button for many websites. Ours uses it. And FF is on it. Take a look at the entire list
- Melanie Reed
FriendFeed's feature set will mean a lot to the rest of the world when it's fully integrated into Facebook in 2011.
- Bruce Lewis
Bruce: I don't think it'll take that long.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you may be right, in which case FriendFeed is a relevant thing to look at. Maybe it isn't actually too far ahead of its time.
- Bruce Lewis
Just like Lisp can make you a better programmer in other languages, FriendFeed can make you a better thinker when writing about other social networks. Popularity isn't everything, even for a blogger.
- Bruce Lewis
You mean, it's not all about attention? :D
- Her Lindsay-ness
Who really knows why Twitter got all the traction? Does Scoble? I very much doubt it. I think there's a great effort going into finding a logical explanation for Twitter massive success and FriendFeeds more modest gains. My own best guess is that it has more to do with the madness of crowds than it does with any limitation in FriendFeed. Twitter had a decent enough foothold already by...
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- David Hall
from FreshFeed
Twitter got the traction because Twitter's easy. It requires very little effort to get into and it requires even less to participate. It's the same reason why YouTube comments are the cesspool of the Internet and MetaFilter's comments are not: anyone can sit around and watch videos all day and then trash talk them but you make people pay to comment and you'll weed out the chaff almost...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
David: I was there from early days on Twitter and studied how it grew. I know more than you might think. Remember, I was the first person to follow 1,000 people there and I was the 13,800ish user to join.
- Robert Scoble
This link is the most illuminating one on FF traction at the time of the buyout. It indicates FF was just starting to regain traction after it had stalled out for a while and it suggests if maybe FF had stuck it out a while longer things might have changed. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Ed Millard
Twitter got hot in the early days because of Leo Laporte and because of SXSW and because it was goofy fun way for tech influencers to talk to their friends. It just kept growing from there. Another factor in addition to simplicity (Akiva's right there) is the API. Tons of clients and tools and services are built on top of it. FriendFeed got nearly none in comparison.
- Robert Scoble
The difference may be luck of the draw ( a la Gladwell)
- Brian Sullivan
People had to build tons of clients, tools and services for Twitter because the default web UI is so bad.
- Ed Millard
Ed: what that graph doesn't show you is what we now know. Google Wave sucked a lot of attention of geek influentials away (IE Hype) and Facebook's Connect is running away with another game. I went into FriendFeed the week they decided to sell and asked them because I knew Twitter had new features coming that would make FriendFeed less interesting. I think the FriendFeed team looked at the competition and decided to fold.
- Robert Scoble
How could I have ignored the API? It's like Firefox's plug-ins: it's the only thing that makes Twitter usable for many users. Without it, they wouldn't touch it. Heck, if it weren't for Tweetie 2, I wouldn't touch it either.
- Akiva Moskovitz
And Facebook's Connect platform is getting incorporated everywhere. I think FriendFeed was hoping to become part of the general web, like what we did over on http://building43.com and that just wasn't going to happen because Facebook's Connect platform is rocking and rolling now. In fact, I made a fundamental blunder by not going with Facebook on Building43. If I had, our traffic would have been much higher than it is now.
- Robert Scoble
You can be sure that once CNN and other assorted media outlets started plugging Twitter it was game over. Once the band wagon was rolling every "personality" was going to hop on. It is a little disturbing that Miley Cyrus has now joined the "everyone should delete their Twitter accounts" camp.
- Ed Millard
David Hall +1 Steven Berlin Johnson would be a good reference - the persistence of babble is incredible valuable in phatic communications. FF, through the web interface hides a lot of that. Instead, the babble was more bookmark centric and less about 'having a sandwich'. That's why you have, on the whole, better conversation threads on FF, and ending up having to duck out of the way of...
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- David Bausola
Disturbing REALLY????? My word, Miley is absolutely right <sarcasm/>
- Roberto Bonini
To paraphrase Louis Gray's wife, "nerds in startups are fickle". I speculate they had a lot of self doubt when they stalled out prior to that up tick, and decided to sell just about the time FF was starting to take off again. Someone waves $50 million at you during a period of self questioning that is a potent motivator, I think Zuckerberg saw that and he did nip a potential competitor in the bud.
- Ed Millard
But all the above comments is about public sharing. I use FF a lot for project planning and development - it's fast - you can discuss items with good archive search, and you can post media. I wonder how many people use FF in this way, and ignore the public babble?
- David Bausola
Having read most of this thread (and Robert, comments are VERY valueble) the"forum problem" is NP-complete. Comments are valuable becuase seeing people reason is often just as enlightening, if not more so, than the original information.
- Roberto Bonini
Ed - mind you, there's only a few ways you can get to the helm of the FB API design and product development. :) Who's to say this isn't all going according to plan?
- David Bausola
Roberto: me and you agree on that. In my research most people do not. They see these things as noise. But, if you make the comments toggle on and off we BOTH win! Plus, comments REALLY help search!
- Robert Scoble
Ed: correction, it was $50 million.
- Robert Scoble
Robert you keep talking about "your research". Is this anything more than anecdotal conversations?
- Brian Sullivan
David, Well maybe Paul and Co. are doing a trojan horse on FB but what I've read about Zuckerberg he doesn't seem likely to relinquish control of anything he cares about and I am skeptical you are going to turn FB in to FF with their entrenched user base.
- Ed Millard
@Scoble you're arguing from authority again. I think on a broadcast platform like Twitter that's an easier one to pull off. On Twitter it's a big "so what" if you've posted a load of BS because most people will simply miss any challenge to your "content." Post the same on FriendFeed and you get tackled and you get tackled in public. Reasonable enough grounds to explain your current stance and certainly as good as any reason I've heard you put forward yourself.
- David Hall
Robert, I stand corrected, and it is corrected, this editing your posts thing is one of FF's scarier features.
- Ed Millard
OPEN QUESTION: Is FF gaining or losing users? I see very little here now - but I'm told user numbers are going through the roof.
- Jim Connolly
Ed: tell me one thing. What's the biggest difference between FF and FB? There's already not as much difference as you'd might think. The one thing I miss over there? Real time search.
- Robert Scoble
Twitter got big because it's about ego. Look at me, Me, ME! Twitter flourished because people like to talk about themselves. (FF is not, which is why it hasn't gained nearly as much traction.) It was developed as an update service. It has evolved into ... something else. As for comments, they are invaluable.
- AJ Kohn
Jim: user numbers are not going through the roof here. I don't know anyone credible who has said that. The registered numbers are going up, but the active numbers are going down.
- Robert Scoble
AJ: FriendFeed is just as much about ego as Twitter is. If not more so.
- Robert Scoble
Ed, the goal is to design influentially for the web. Paul B does seem to give that ethos in his startup camp talks and general interviews. I would think FB would warm to that ideology.
- David Bausola
Very true. Robert.
- Roberto Bonini
@Robert: How? Seriously, I'd like to hear your opinion.
- AJ Kohn
Robert: In other words, as people like yourself, Arrington and even those little guys like myself with a couple of thousand subscribers leave - we're being replaced by less active users. Makes sense. I used to check in on and off all day. Now, 2/3 times a week,
- Jim Connolly
Jim: not true. I don't see a lot of people joining in here and I'm watching it closely. Sorry. More people are leaving the back door than are coming in the front.
- Robert Scoble
To me the two big ones are 1) perception that it more walled garden networks and not as open though certainly it has avenues which are more open like FF 2) its home to massive quantities of apps, games, spam from people trying to get rich that hold no interest to me, though obviously many others like them. FF is probably just overlooked by that crowd, if it were bigger it would be infected with all that crap too. FF seems to mostly just be good people from my limited time here.
- Ed Millard
All User Centric Design is modeled around the ego. Good software design keeps that in mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- David Bausola
AJ: Twitter is, for many people, about business now. Not ego at all. News brands: http://twitter.com/#... no ego. Tech companies: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... No ego. But here? It's ALL about ego!
- Robert Scoble
David is right.
- Robert Scoble
On Twitter the default is to show number you follow, number of followers, number of Tweets. That's all playing on ego and popularity. Nearly everything (even lists) is geared to stimulate a innate need to acquire more of something as a way to ... validate contribution or perceived influence or authority. FF does not show this in the default mode.
- AJ Kohn
Companies and brands are the most aggressive form of ego there is, and they usually are direct reflections of the ego of the company's CEO.
- Ed Millard
Alright Robert. In order to reduce the signal to noise ratio, we can do one of two things, we can use "Likes" to filter the comment stream. If I Like more posts from Robert than i do from LG, Roberts comments appear but not LG's. We can use semantics to (somehow) sort the thread and show comments relevant to the original post. (simply dumping noise isin't a solution - not all noise is noise all the time. Likewise, increasing signal in an echo chamber is fruitless)
- Roberto Bonini
@Robert: Oh, I think Twitter is a great business tool! It's a marketers paradise. But I'm not sure that's what most people believe it to be. People still think they're going to get some sort of social dialog there. I think it's why Twitter churn is so high. People get it thinking it'll be one thing and quickly find out it's another.
- AJ Kohn
+1 AJ, there are some people that use Twitter in awesome, constructive, useful, ways like Tim O'Reilly and Jay Rosen but a lot of people its pure self promotion. As for news outlets using twitter they are going to go wherever the eyeballs are, and they will go to multiple networks not just Twitter. Those are pure broadcast, no engagement, they aren't really a ringing endorsement of why Twitter is great.
- Ed Millard
I'd bet FF *would* take off (but be worse for it) if it listed how many times the content I fed got liked and commented on, and that (along with subscribers etc.) were all listed right there at the top of my home feed. And that upon signing up, I'd get suggested users based on subscriptions but also who got the most likes and comments. Yet, I don't think that's conducive to what FF really excels at.
- AJ Kohn
@Robert, biggest difference between Facebook and Friendfeed - reciprocal connections. Without a doubt. The apps, the ads, other stuff, is true, but for me the central difference, and the thing that betrays a fundamental difference of worldview between the two apps is whether or not you can follow someone's content without them having to follow you back. You can only do that on Facebook...
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- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
@Ed: I realized a long time ago that Twitter was a big Internet megaphone. And if you could get a lot of people to 'listen' to that megaphone well, that's powerful stuff. It's about Reach. Twitter gives your message reach. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't see it as ... transforming.
- AJ Kohn
Those who study the art of propaganda consider reach to be everything, because following reach is influence, and following influence is control. TV is losing its reach in the Internet era so most of those "brands" and "personalites" are rushing to find a way to regain it, enter Twitter and FB. They are better because they are bidirectional.
- Ed Millard
*Noise* :)
- ashish
@Ed: I'd be interested to see more on how reach leads to influence. It often does but ... not always. Plenty of multi-million dollar ad campaigns in the graveyard as examples. Reach + ? = influence.
- AJ Kohn
Ed I think you're right. I caught that TC piece at the time too. Seems to me that the FriendFeed guys had a bit of a crisis of confidence and grabbed lunch while it was on offer. In any case I always figured FriendFeed as a place to graduate to once you'd rammed up against Twitters limitations. And, as I'm sure you know, that doesn't take long. That's how I got here. I was actually on...
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- David Hall
You don't have influence until you have reach so its the prerequisite. Then it a matter of how effectively you craft the message and push the buttons in your target audience. Some people are good at that part, some aren't, some fail, some succeed.
- Ed Millard
Robert, I just wonder. Isn't twitter more about consuming the information and FF more about sharing and discussing? Look at http://twitter.com/Scoblei.... What can anyone add to that or comment on that? I agree it is getting a lot noisy in here (exhibit, this post). But not all posts will be this noisy I think.
- Amit
+1 Jandy, she answered Robert's challenge to me better than I did.
- Ed Millard
@Ed: I'm not sure. New memes start with someone small sometimes. Say ... keyboard cat ... and someone who has reach communicates that message and it goes big. So who has the influence? The creator of keyboard cat or the person to has the reach to make it go big? I find it very interesting.
- AJ Kohn
Jandy: +100. You just nailed for me why I like Twitter and FriendFeed better than Facebook. Agreed.
- Robert Scoble
Robertt, maybe this post and the scads of comments prove your point, but maybe your point is limited to your own experience due to your unique position in tech. You speak, noise follows. But that does not make Friendfeed irrelevant or useless for the average or even just left or right of average user. You have a unique experience that is going to color any forum you put your time into....
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- Martha
+++Jandy
- Melanie Reed
Well put, Jandy.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I think the forum problem is not as big in smaller more intimate groups. Recently I've been very active in the DMU group here that includes a lot of folks who've migrated here from Flickr. The relevancy is much more higher in these venues than in the main feed because it's a smaller controlled experience. I do wish though that groups were more full featured like the rest of FF though....
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- Thomas Hawk
oh of course and photo voting pools for groups would by awesome too. ;)
- Thomas Hawk
Lists are not enough. Twitter, FF and other social networks need tagging by default, then filter on list + tag. That's the element that would kill the noise and turn them into interest networks.
- howard shippin
from BuddyFeed
Martha: you might have a point if we were just talking about me. But we're not. So, try again. Again, I've talked with thousands of people about these things. They tell me they don't like the noise that public forums bring. I've been doing this for 25 years and this isn't the first time I've heard this pushback. Facebook, by the way, on its iPhone app, handles it perfectly: it hides all...
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- Robert Scoble
You all keep referring to this as either chat or comments when actually its a discussion. I think that the ability to discuss anything on Friend Feed or anywhere else for that matter IS where you learn the most. I'm not techy like most of you, I'm just an ordinary 'average' user, but I see twitter more as a 'newsreel' of info, shallow but instant, whereas Friend Feed is more a 'thrashing out of ideas and opnions, and is therefore all the richer for it.
- Sandra Large
Sandra: chat/discussion/forum/comments are all pretty much the same thing. Yes, the two are different. There CAN be lots of learning here, it's just that this is a lot noiser than other online things in some ways.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, about noise: when you or other tech influencers introduce FriendFeed, you show the things you're excited about, which tend to be big and noisy, right? And if you're the first person someone follows on FF, they're going to get a noisy first impression. The slower growth that doesn't come through tech influencers may have less of a back door.
- Bruce Lewis
And about the 25+-year-old forum problem: Moderated Usenet was great until moderators slacked off. Decentralized moderation fixes that, at least for small discussions. Larger discussions can lead to whack-a-mole (though I notice this one hasn't), but with one of the suggestions I made earlier in this conversation the number of whackers could scale with the number of moles.
- Bruce Lewis
Moderation = censorship. Censorship sucks. Give the users control to hide and block. The less censorship the better.
- Thomas Hawk
@Paul - what about a view to only see the user's posts/content ie no comments of others and no likes => then it becomes twitter like
- Kishore Balakrishnan
Come on, it's hardly messier than Facebook, since the default view only includes the first and last comment. Basically the gist I'm getting is that people who think they're important don't want to listen to people who they don't think are important. Such is the human race, I suppose.
- Victor Ganata
+++Victor hammer meets nail.
- David Hall
Robert said "FB iPhone app ... hides all comments with an arrow that you can then use to expand the comments. That is so much better than this mess here that it isn't funny". Robert, I must be missing your point because FF also hides most comments until you expand them because you want to read them... Don't want to read FF comments, don't expand them, problem solved. Or are you saying FF is a "mess" because it shows first and last comment?
- Ed Millard
235 comments! I really don't want to expand *that* on FF! Is this a pain-point for anyone else?
- Space Cowboy
Not for me. If I'm interested enough in the topic or dialog I'll click the time stamp and open the post page to read everything. The text amount is comparable to a medium length blog post: if I have the time to read that I have the time to read this if it interests me.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
A typical blog post? Dragging & copying the comments only (which took about a min. of scrolling) produced 9200 words and 23 pages of text. Blog posts also tend to have a more easily read narrative.
- Vincent van Wylick
The problem is for big conversations like this one you need threading and maybe moderation, but for more normal conversations that are smaller flat is better. Allowing a switch between the two adds complexity. For big conversations FF lacks the button to reply to a specific poster so the viewer can thread, at least as an option. Much of the noise level in this conversation is due to people having to manually try to fake threading.
- Ed Millard
The threading vs. flat conversation is interesting to me - we've tried multiple times to put Disqus or Intense Debate on a film blog I write for, and every time we meet huge resistance to threading ESPECIALLY on long threads. People say they have a lot of difficulty finding the new comments when they aren't all at the top or bottom.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Why can't there be a summary fly-out with timestamps based on response rate to single comments and a "last comment made" link as well as "thread count" links and lastly, "participants in this thread" link? Collapse everything else except the initial post. The initial interface looking like this one, should always be available for those who want to "sort through". You want the...
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- Melanie Reed
Jandy, you kind of have to let the user flip between threading and flat to solve the chronology problem. Slashdot has a popup menu at the top that lets you view in "Threaded, Nested, Flat, No Comments". The down side is the UI gets progressively more complex both to implement and use unless you are going to force everyone to lowest common denominator UI.
- Ed Millard
But Ed, that's what I have against the traditional "threaded" approach: all the fork like structure. It does get complicated real fast. What's needed is somewhere a "summary" for those jumping in late to "catch up" but also the "single comment" link to democratize the discussion. Threads have all the indentation problems of trying to follow that way IF I am picturing what you mean by thread.
- Melanie Reed
+1 Ed
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
My other observation is this: everyone creates a "story" about the ideas and information they are taking in and immediately starts associating connections in their mind creating a mental picture whether they realize it or not when they are perceiving that information. Our user interfaces don't yet lend themselves to that especially where it come to dialogue and forums. We've accepted a...
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- Melanie Reed
Here's why you don't need indented/tangential threading: FF discussions tend to be small enough to fit in the "RAM" in one's mind. It curtails many threads that might ramble; the exception (like Paul's thread here) comes when the power of the topic/zeitgeist and vibe of a live chat going strong overrides that usual point of decay. Predictablly, one or several commenters here will start a new thread or escalate it to a blog post and summarize their thoughts based on what transpired on this stream.
- Micah Wittman
Melanie, have you used Slashdot, they did forums earlier and better than anyone. The forum starts out flat, and then starts threading. Random community moderators start modding up the insightful posts, and burying the trolls, crap, etc. Once the moderation kicks in the "summary" is all the posts that were modded up to 5 which are shown expanded. All the lower moderated stuff is there but you have to clck to see. Slashdot would suck like YouTube comments if they hadn't solved the forum problem.
- Ed Millard
It's organic, not hierarchical. As other have stated, there is as much to learn from watching the process unfold as there is to gain from end result.
- Micah Wittman
Ed, no, I haven't used Slashdot but I'm willing to give it a try. I'm pretty adaptable. But when I see a problem and it becomes "the picture" for me, in this case a circle then I know its time for the leap out of the present "prison of one idea". ;)
- Melanie Reed
Micah, its true threads are bad for small friendly forums. Some of this discussion is about what happens when the forums on "celebrity" social expert's threads get so big they overflow readers brains and they turn in to *noise*. One noise problem is organization, the other is some post and some posters are better than others in the mind of the celeb and the reader.
- Ed Millard
Slashdot dealt with most of the forum problems ten years ago, they had to to survive the trolls. The problem is their UI needs to be complex to be flexible and keep everyone happy. Their audience is also mostly geek power user. When you get to social networks the other UI school is demanding the UI be dirt simple so the unwashed masses can cope, but dirt simple mean its inflexible and it ticks off nearly everyone, especially power users. Hard problem to solve... making everyone happy.
- Ed Millard
Ed, conferences have break-out groups. The same idea should be employed.
- Micah Wittman
Ed, yes, you offered a little explication for others of what happens when you lost the ability to categorize your"story" into a mental picture that is associated with previous "stories" you have stored in the brain. That end result is "noise". Some of us are better at doing that than others, that's true. But there come a point of over flow for all of us. What our UI needs to do is to amplify and assist in that "story" constructing process.
- Melanie Reed
Break out groups is a nice idea, but it seems a bit cumbersome. You need to make a new post, post a link here and get some critical mass from the first forum to move. If you do it five times you would splinter the first forum and lose critical mass, especially in a "real-time" forum where people will only watch one forum at a time. Chances are most people will cling to the first forum if its interesting.
- Ed Millard
Ed and Micah, what I hear both of you saying, and Robert as well, is that at some point in the "story" constructing process, the dialog from the forum needs to end in the narrative of a blog. Up till now, the blog component has been a random, unattached part of the discussion. AM I hearing that you think that in some way it should become part of the UI? So that the discussion gets...
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- Melanie Reed
Not sure I follow, blog is kind of a one voice, one direction thing, only way a forum morphs to blog is when once person splits off the forum to make a more in depth point and posts the blog link to the forum. I'm mostly just talking about the various methods for restoring order in a big forum, and improving signal to noise ratio. Most entail putting more options and more UI in and around the forum and making the UI more complex which many think is bad on a social network.
- Ed Millard
Ed, as I was writing this, it occurs to me that what I'm suggesting is what I may have just figured out (finally) that Google Wave is trying to get us to do. But if so, I beleive FF could actually do it better. the "noise" problem that was created by the various forms of SM, inside and outside of the platforms, was the inability to "connect the dots". We didn't have a framework for how...
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- Melanie Reed
One of the problems that we haven't solved is the usefulness of digression and random access of connective tissue in the "story" process. That's the wild card that often comes up as "noise"
- Melanie Reed
I can't speak for Robert. Some of his issue "seems" to be he only wants to see the Silicon Valley/SF movers and shakers in his feed talking about tech and social networks, and he doesn't much want anyone but that same group to be posting on forums under his auspices. Friend Feeds openness is bad for that. The same is true for all the Twitter celeberati. They don't want peons anywhere near their online presence to tarnish it.
- Ed Millard
Only way I can see to maintain FF openness for those who want it, and celeb broadcast only mode for the celebs who demand it, in one social network is you have to have an option when you make a post on your feed to control the forum methodology (i.e. broadcast only peons can only look on, panel mode where only my social elite are allowed to speak & peons can watch, private where only my circle can speak and see (FB mode), or completely OPEN(FF mode).
- Ed Millard
There also seems to be an issue where someone you follow, through the "like" process, can inject pictures of kittens, babies and man titteh in to your feed. Of course that is kind of the original point of social networks, seeing what your network sees. I think some just want hard core tech news and talk and twitter lists probably do allow an uber though somewhat lifeless feed like that.
- Ed Millard
Ed, well, that is the territory of the heart when it comes into contact with the machine. And oddly (or maybe not so oddly) there is a post on my feed that addresses that theme: http://friendfeed.com/faithx5... ;) Digression and Random access at work. lol And I find that refreshing. I'm always excited about how some new idea may be generated because I allowed what...
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- Melanie Reed
@Melanie: I fully believe in non-linear learning. The ability to take input from diverse thematic content and synthesize something ... to apply something from one world to the other. That's where I think we're heading. I think of it a little bit like a digital version of Burroughs' Cut Up technique: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- AJ Kohn
I can't believe I read the whole thing
- Michael Slattery
Such a simple and obvious solution: provide an optional *LIST* view for Friendfeed items. Open the comments only on items that look really interesting. Am I missing something obvious? Then Friendfeed could easily emulate Twitter on all essentials (and surpass it in many other areas).
- Sean McBride
Sean, I think the obvious thing you are missing is there are no FF developers any more so FF probably isn't getting anything it doesn't already have. And there are camps here that don't really like the alternatives that FB and Twitter offer which is why this is such a hot button issue. I wish there was one social network that had lists, open forums, walled gardens, and broadcast mode based on the wishes of the person running a feed so everyone could be happy in one network.
- Ed Millard
Google Wave is Down - "Time to chillax" #FailArt - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
Daniel Rowley, rowlikeagirl, Iain Baker and 5 other people liked this
I have yet to get Google Wave-someone nominated me and I should receive it any day now -any one know what the time span is from nomination to actually receiving the invite in the mail ?
- Kirk Fontaine
4-5 days is what I have seen.
- Brian Sullivan
I've seen anything from 12 hours to 1 week.
- Tony Ruscoe
3-7 days depending on weekend/load of bugs?
- Majento
I had lots of requests to bring back my Tweets and Twitter Favorites, so here they go. Added back in.
Jordi Soler, J. Abdul-Qahhar, Jeff P. Henderson and 9 other people liked this
I blocked Holden Page because he thought they were crap and I don't want to bother him with them. Problem solved.
- Robert Scoble
LOL. You should have imported even more, somehow, specifically to annoy him. ;)
- Otto
Thanks Robert
- TechFuga
Let people hide the noise, like always. Even if your opinions have changed, the technologies here are still the same and the rules still apply.
- Louis Gray
thanks for bringing them back
- ffcode
Thanks Robert.
- Jeff P. Henderson
Working on some product ideas I'm very excited about.
Jérôme Flipo, Clare Dibble, Stephan Osmont and 9 other people liked this
"Working on some product ideas I'm not that excited about."
- Jim Norris
Working on some product ideas with Ana. Not really enjoying myself.
- Jim Norris
lol, jim.
- Cristo
Cristo++
- Ruchira S. Datta
@Jim: +42
- AJ Kohn
I have a plan for the next set of features for http://listbrowser.org/.
Jordi Soler and Ethan Gahng liked this
The Strokes – Someday - http://blip.fm/profile...
Jordi Soler and RAPatton liked this
wow... google music is pretty damn awesome... and useful... yes i know those are probably some pretty shocking statements...
- Jeffrey Marsh
The intent/purpose problem (& an appeal to @scobleizer) - http://macrolinz.com/macroli...
Charlie Anzman, Mike Chelen, Tyson Key and 46 other people liked this
It’s all about your intentions online. Most intentions can be grouped into 3 categories: knowledge gathering, broadcasting and conversation. There are many services on the web that can potentially serve those intentions. It depends on your purpose as to whether or not a service brings you value.
- Her Lindsay-ness
I think that was very well put, Lindsay!
- Jan Ole Peek
Thanks, Jan.
- Her Lindsay-ness
Very thoughtfully and intelligently written, Lindsay.
- Anne Bouey
1UP, Lindsay.
- Derrick
I shoulda been Lindsay for Halloween. I could've had great hair and kicked peoples' asses with my brain.
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
LOL @ tinypants :) That would have been quite a scary costume!
- Her Lindsay-ness
My comment here http://macrolinz.com/macroli... :)
- Micah Wittman
Fantastic post, Lindsay. Totally agreed.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Well said, Lindsay. Honestly, the only reason for Scoble to post about his dissatisfaction with FriendFeed is to get attention. Personally, what he likes & dislikes means nothing to me, since he's not a friend of mine or someone whose opinion means anything to me. Like you say, he has very specific things he wants from social sites. It's not what I want & it's not what most people I know want.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
I know that part of Scoble's reaction is for attention, but I also can read between the lines that he is really disappointed because he knows that FriendFeed is probably the best tool out there but now it's no longer going to grow feature-wise so, as a bleeding edge adopter, he can't stick with it anymore....
- Her Lindsay-ness
...I think he's a little embarrassed that he was backing the "losing horse" for so long and basically had to "eat crow" with some of the people that he made enemies of on FriendFeed's behalf (though, personally, I think he was right about FriendFeed anyway). I think he's in a bit of despair like the rest of us at all the time and effort he put into participation here seeming to "go to...
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- Her Lindsay-ness
...I empathize with all of that, but a lot of us have moved on to acceptance and just want to continue our interactions here. And he's making it harder for us to do that by driving people away that could be more of a justification for keeping the service alive in the future just because of their numbers. And it's also demoralizing and depressing. I would like for him to show some respect for people he used to call friends here and knock off the abuse.
- Her Lindsay-ness
Excellent. Thank you.
- Steve Lowe
well put, Lindsay!
- Joe Silence is not dead
*clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!*
- vicster
Not only does she put the 'is dead' conversation in an appropriate space, she also does a fine and thoughtful assessment of what tools can be used for what purpose. Thanks, Lindsay.
- Holly Rae, FFer
Scoble was right about FriendFeed being better. The problem is when you have companies like FB with lots of money to throw around, they can kill superior tech by writing a check. If you've been following TechCrunch lately they have articles on dubious ways FB and FB app developers get their money. Zuckerberg and early FB was apparently supported by shady casino ads. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Ed Millard
When I grow up, I want to be as cool as Lindsay.
- Louis Gray
Hey I saw this lady on CNN before :)
- Rodfather
Holden, you mean my post or the one on techcrunch. Your post is even holier than mine :) If you meant mine, how so? I struggle getting points across in the 512 limit sometimes which means I'm hopeless on Twitter.
- Ed Millard
Holden, I would be interested in hearing specifically, maybe on another thread, other than the obvious it was apparently written by someone whose done it and profited. I'm a complete noob when it comes to sleazy social network spam though it is a fascinating study in human nature and how to exploit it. That article mostly added to my list of reasons I like FF and have no interest in FB.
- Ed Millard
Nice post, thanks. Heard and understood.
- Robert Scoble
scoble - why dont you just make a message board? invite all your tech friends, you'd be in heaven! sure, it's not as clever as say something like this, but you get what you want then..
- Terry O'Fee
Her Lindsay-ness: another stance users may adopt is to stick with friendfeed only until such time as something better comes along, regardless of whether it actually gets shut down or not
- Mike Chelen
@Mike, I would probably put those folks under reaction #2... that is typical of any user of a service. The one thing that you can't take with you to the new service, however, is your entire community. The people who make up your community on FriendFeed would most likely splinter into several other communities in the "new, better" services that come along. I don't see any better options...
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- Her Lindsay-ness
Where has my FriendFeed gone? The picture says it all. By the way, this is the "best of day" right now. Sad.
Ankush Narula, Luca Sofri, scott willeke and 65 other people liked this
Compare these two. FriendFeed has great pictures, but content that is, well, not interesting. Twitter, on right, has 6,000x better content but doesn't look as nice due to no pictures. Will Brizzly come to rescue?
- Robert Scoble
I hope somebody comes up with a fabulous client to maximize content and serve up more media
- Susan Beebe
And people wonder why I don't come here much anymore. Sigh.
- Robert Scoble
FriendFeed used to be very heavy in tech discussions. Now it's rare I see a tech discussion on the "best of day" feed.
- Robert Scoble
The cap on the left is infinitely preferable to the right. I can't tell you how glad I am not to be inundated with tech stuff all day long. One man's trash...
- Jim Hearts FF
Time to adjust your subscriptions.
- Bruce Lewis
try PowerTwitter ...also, which service has 6000x more users? doesn't that affect content choices?
- .LAG liked that
I keep looking for the comments link on Brizzly.
- Tom Landini
PowerTwitter is a great add to the twitter website (Firefox add-on)
- Susan Beebe
There's more to talk about than just "tech", seriously...
- Rob H.
Robert - Do you have any general news, world news Twitter lists/groups? I tried scrolling through you lists, but they all seem pretty tech-slanted. If Twitter is to replace Friendfeed and Google Reader, then we need to be able to get real news and information out of the thing.
- Matthew DeVries
The left is a best of day from your 28000 subscriptions. The right is a heavily curated list focused on something you are interested in. Try "best of" on a curated list (there is a link at the bottom of every list feed to best of for that feed).
- Benjamin Golub
agree totally with you Scoble, Bruce: adjusting wouldn't make a difference now
- ffcode
Ben - great advise!
- Susan Beebe
I know twitter is occupied with infrastructure and list improvements, but you would think they could be building brizzly-esque features pretty easily.
- Sean Montgomery
Sean - right. Twitter has to stablize their platform, then focus on UIX
- Susan Beebe
Matthew: I'm a geek. Other people are doing news lists. I might start one, though. You are the second person to ask for one.
- Robert Scoble
and there aren't tech discussions here one of the prime reasons are Scoble left and he is usually followed by around 10k folks everywhere, and his predictions affect all, weak or strong minded
- ffcode
I find it a fascinating observation: Twitter is better than FriendFeed because there's more tech discussions in my feed. Is that the criteria you use for judging other social media sites? Because, IMHO, social media is about connecting people, not about tech discussions.
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
ffcode: sorry, I'm tracking the geek participation here and sorry, the really geeky stuff has definitely gone down.
- Robert Scoble
always wondered how your feed would look like but it is clear you are no different ;)
- ffcode
Robert - I come to you because you're the best list builder and analyzer of signal to noise.
- Matthew DeVries
Glen: sorry, where the geeks go generally the general public follows. Generally. And, anyway, compare this stuff to Facebook. Even there it's a loser, sorry. I watch my wife's feed all the time and compare it to FriendFeed and FriendFeed loses. She said "ew" when she saw my page here.
- Robert Scoble
only 2 likes on a celebrity picture(demi moore)? I guess people really did run away!
- PJ Edwards
Glen: by the way, I can make such a screen shot for a bunch of different genre's, not just tech. Twitter has far more diversity and has far more flow of all kinds. http://listorious.com 's huge first weekend demonstrates that.
- Robert Scoble
Jim: if you don't want just tech, check out http://listorious.com -- what list would you like? In one weekend Twitter got more diversity thanks to lists than FriendFeed did in 18 months. And no "ew" pictures.
- Robert Scoble
You still have to come here. It's mandatory
- Charlie Anzman
sad one of the best place is going down like this and it is going the way every other social network is "just for fun"....:(
- ffcode
Charlie: I do, but now you know why I don't show off FriendFeed at conferences anymore.
- Robert Scoble
FriendFeed's still here. Unfortunately when Scoble, FriendFeed's top user goes, so go the users.
- Jesse Stay
number of places on the twitter display where you could see an inline discussion: zero.
- SuezanneC Baskerville
I follow Scoble, but I'm not going anywhere, Jesse.
- Jim Hearts FF
Either that, or this just means FriendFeed has gone mainstream, and is no longer just tech users any more ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse - Robert left Twitter for quite a while (well, not left, but just had it parroting his FF) and it didn't seem to hurt Twitter any. Robert can't make or break a service all by himself.
- Matthew DeVries
I guess I just don't get it. My Facebook connects me with friends I haven't seen in years and relatives I contact rarely. With Facebook, I can keep in touch far better than I ever have in my life. I learn about my cousin in the ICU with pneumonia, and my good friend in Indiana who just had a grandson. The whole format is not compatible with tech discussions; the length restrictions...
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- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Code junkies best of week: http://friendfeed.com/code-ju...
- Bruce Lewis
@Cristo: +3000. @Robert: Change your subscriptions. You just haven't curated your worldview here as much lately. Things change, so must your prism.
- AJ Kohn
as usual, Robert's death of FF posts shoot up the charts. get it?
- Steve Gillmor
Matthew, see my second comment. I think some of it is that FriendFeed's userbase has changed as well. It's not the tech early adopters any more. I expect with Facebook's acquisition it will become more so that case.
- Jesse Stay
My point being this comparison doesn't mean much
- Jesse Stay
What is "geek" to you Robert? Because I've been seeing plenty of "geek" posts in the subscriptions and rooms I follow here on FriendFeed.
- Maxamad
Mehmet: geek is someone talking about technology or talking about building something or excited about using such. Do you see any geek in the friendfeed screen shot? I don't.
- Robert Scoble
Agree with Jesse here.
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Bruce: is that the best example you got? All those items have no discussion!
- Robert Scoble
And like Tom's comment [keep looking for comments link on Brizzly] LOL!
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
o.O Louis is pretty geeky. His kids already have Macbooks.
- Matthew DeVries
The most active discussions I've seen on FriendFeed lately are only when someone proclaims or laments its decline. Sad but true.
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Or when Jason holds a live chat.
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Robert, twitter=no conversation. I'll deal with the 'ew' pictures by simply using the 'hide' button, that's why it's there. You go your way, I'll go mine. It's all good.
- Jim Hearts FF
do anybody no why Scoble can't just leave us alone. Friendfeed is dying according to him, no need to make it a self fulfilling prophecy. The more you "high profile" users criticize FF the faster folks will leave it.
- Tendonitis' Bitch
Coding geeks communicate best with code. Neither twitter nor FriendFeed let you indent. So there's going to be more sharing and less conversation for coders.
- Bruce Lewis
Robert ,the best of the day are comments and likes on a post ,not content. all the contents from Twitter,blogs,Rss etc are here and its better to get them here or in public groups or in private , I am not sure that on Twitter ppl are acting ,they are just reading same as here
- Johni Fisher
agree with Steve Gillmor, users are here but they are doing things way different now than they used to when Scoble was around
- ffcode
agree more than 100% that "those" tech talks are just gone
- ffcode
You're comparing a hand crafted twitter list to friendfeed's user-generated best-of-day?
- Andy Bakun
Gunny, give the guy a break. He feels forced to be on twitter and misses the conversations on FriendFeed. Did you look at the right-hand picture from twitter? No conversation happening there at all. Zero. I can't imagine hanging out there all day.
- Bruce Lewis
I skip all the tech anyway. Who says it's "better"?
- m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
Cristo: try seeing feed around those times when there when acquisition talks
- ffcode
Why can't there be a friendly friend feed and a tech friend feed? Is there no other use for the internet than to talk about the internet?
- m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
Tech and coding news is primarily what I look for in FriendFeed, and I find it. Conversation happens, as well as users bumping things up with likes. Subscriptions (friends and rooms) help filter tech content that I want to see. A like is sometimes as good as a comment.
- Maxamad
and Andy: you are yourself stating what Scoble has been saying all the way twitter is place where you can get your taste now not here anymore
- ffcode
Robert- regarding your early early comment- I find it refreshing that FF isn't about tech
- anna sauce
+anna, +Glen, and even +cristo
- Kamilah Gill
Does Plurk get this much attention about its inevitable death? Now there's a service that could really use the wake-up call.
- Mark Trapp
Robert never got infatuated with Plurk, Mark.
- Maxamad
Robert most of the change is in the place that you decided to open a subject and to post ,I remember 3 months ago your posts here were with tooons of comments and interest and from the day that you are posting your Twitter FAV here, there is not much action ,just think on that ,I like to read your Twitter FAV but I would better have them in a group and get yr posts like in the past
- Johni Fisher
Yeah, you're pretty geeky there when you have to search how to make screenshots
- KapitanObvious
agree Johni
- ffcode
thx ff
- Johni Fisher
To be honest, any social network with content governed by who you're subscribed to, and having image media in a feed is going to come up with something you don't like. This is because no one is on topic all the time, especially on Twitter. If you want sanitized feeds from *only* tech experts, geeks and what have you, these sort of services aren't going to cut it for you....
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- Mo Kargas
I sure like the interaction here, comments, community...this post shot over to Twitter, but there is nothing going on there about it.
- Eric Matas
@Eric Yes exactly, to me it looks like a glorified RSS stream from different sources, fundamentally a list of content and that's it. The topics Robert is after may not be present on FF, but the conversation is far more intuitive.
- Mo Kargas
"glorified RSS stream"...pretty much sums it up.
- Maxamad
Hey GUISE, we're forgetting that the list on the right will fail-whale often as twitter never seems to remember how to run their servers. As to the content on the left not being interesting, well...at least I know it's real people who aren't trying to get me to buy into some new brand or some interchangeable tech company that will just be bought by facebook one day and disappear. :)
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
I just can't wait for the day that Scoble ditches Twitter for the junk it is. Should give me a good laugh.
- Maxamad
Twitter has no "ew" pictures because it has no pictures. You can use the fftogo option that turns off media if you want no pictures.
- Bruce Lewis
For conversations, friendfeed wins. For tons of blabbers and links, twitter wins. But agreed, activity has gone down heavily on friendfeed. Twitter mania has caught everyone.
- Amit
Interesting tech discussions from http://friendfeed.com/paul... are "Think big. Code small" and the ooc one.
- Bruce Lewis
One anecdote deserves another. I've posted on FF regularly for 1.5 years. I comment frequently on others' tech posts, but most of my own posts are not strictly tech-angled. This week I asked "FriendFeeders : NEED ADVISE: Best all-around value Netbook today - which one?" and it got 16 LIKES and 20 COMMENTS. The last time one of my posts hit/surpassed that threshold was early August http://friendfeed.com/search...
- Micah Wittman
One thing I noticed is no conversations. Just straight links to other sites. Kind of boring.
- Todd Hoff
BTW is it possible to stop getting the twitter updates from others on Friendfeed? Slowly I am seeing my friendfeed aggregating only the twitter updates.
- Amit
Yeah, you can Amit. Just click "hide" on a tweet you see in FF, and then choose to "hide other items like this one"...and go from there.
- Maxamad
Robert is just being Robert, always stirring things up! LOL, I really do ♥ you for it though.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Wait, you were all like ' I LOVE FF ' this summer. Singing your praises on the TWiT network and all that jazz. You're even more of a fair weather fan than Minnesotans with our sports teams.
- Clark Baumgartner 蔵明 馬武刀
No hatin' on the Vikings here, they try hard :p
- Maxamad
Twins? Timberwolves? Wilds? Take your pick if the Vikings don't do it for yeh.
- Clark Baumgartner 蔵明 馬武刀
You know what makes me laugh... People who use FriendFeed in other languages probably don't see this or any of the stuff Robert is interested in...
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
+Johnny W.
- Kamilah Gill
BTW... Heaven forbid we actually have fun on a Sunday... Your lawn's that way
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
You're really going to show me Wall Street Journal on your Twitter feed and compare that to Friendfeed's personal interaction? You know better, Robert.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
from iPhone
KapitanObvious++ for the burn.
- Andrew C
One of the nice things about Friendfeed is the way you can hide a post like this and not see it ever again. It would be nice to have a way to filter posts from specific people if they contained certain words such as twitter, lists, dead, or friendfeed. :)
- SuezanneC Baskerville
Robert GFY dude, seriously.
- LANjackal
""glorified RSS stream" - yeah, except my RSS feeds have been culled down to sources that add their own insightful commentary so it's not an endless stream of retweets of _all the same damn links repeated over and over_. That Twitter screenshot looks really information-light once the repeats are filtered out...
- Andrew C
FRIEND Feed.
- Internet's Tad
And this coming from a man who posted this online: http://valleywag.com/assets... :P
- Jan Ole Peek
The Friendfeed screenshot shows 222 total interactions in the first three entries. The twitter one shows 14 (and I'm counting the one at the bottom that is cut off). Oh wait, those aren't interactions, those are links to other places.
- Andy Bakun
I think Robert is just confusing the point of the site. The name is FRIEND Feed, not interesting feed, useful feed, news feed, etc. This is where I hang out with my friends.
- Internet's Tad
Robert, you're cool and everything, but sometimes the things you post make me think of you as an arrogant asshole. The beauty in friendfeed is that there are so many different flavors to sample from. There are plenty of sites to go to that are tech heavy if that is what you are looking for. Why bother here if it's not what you want? Move on and shut the fuck up about it. Jesus.
- DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE
Amen.
- Internet's Tad
For someone who doesn't like Friendfeed or thinks Friendfeed doesn't offer as much value as twitter, he sure does post here a lot.
- Andy Bakun
This is exactly the kind of post I don't want in my feed. Adjusting my subscriptions now. Sorry Robert, but I gotta block you on Friendfeed. See you on Twitter.
- Rodfather
Robert. You are stating the obvious: of course friendfeed is going to decline: there is no more engineering or innovation power behind it! The key question is: "is a friendfeed++ going to reborn as part of facebook and have a much more profound impact?". The jury is still out but knowing the quality of the team I would not bet against it.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
I think this post is very rude to the posters in your screenshot, especially the second two. They are sharing themselves and their lives with us. If that doesn't interest you, unsubscribe or hide but to call them out and mock them as 'sad' is, well, sad. FriendFeed is full of people that I enjoy discussing all kinds of topics with, including technology, but they are more than just early...
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- joey
Thank you Joey. I find the screen shot to be particularly offensive considering the tenor of the post. Stop being a jerk Robert.
- DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE
Holden: I have removed my Twitter favorites from FriendFeed because of your post and my Twitter account too.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Scoble, you need to clean your Twitter DM's like stat.
-
@Robert - Just because FriendFeed isn't 90% tech and personal branding posts doesn't mean it doesn't have value. You used to be such a big proponent of lists here and molding your subscriptions so they were full of info but not noise... now that you've neglected your pruning efforts and gone over to Twitter then your feed is full of more noise (to you) than info. It's not FriendFeed's...
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- Her Lindsay-ness
Her Lindsay-ness: sorry, so many geeks have left and there are just more interesting information (FOR ME), more interesting conversations (FOR ME), and I'm learning a lot more over on Twitter (ABOUT WHAT I WANT TO LEARN). FriendFeed HAS changed and that's OK! For you. Not for me. And, sorry, I looked at rejiggering my accounts here, but the info just isn't coming here and Twitter is...
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- Robert Scoble
Then go away. What the fuck. Why keep coming back here to make posts about how horrible it is. It just makes you look like more of an asshole than you intend to be I'm sure. Seriously. If you think there is no value in it, then it's kinda counter-productive to keep posting here, right? You act like the guy that graduated high school but keeps coming back hanging out at lunch and during pep rallies. It's a little bit creepy. What is it that you hope to gain by that?
- DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE
I agree with Gunny. YOU caused the mass exedus from Friend Feed Robert, by announcing its demise. Let's see what would happen if instead of moaning about its lack of techy feeds, you began promoting it instead. Look on it as an FF experiment.
- Sandra Large
I like reading your stuff Rob but yeah --- if you're only going to come here to diss FF, perhaps you should just exit FF completely. Also, it's a FACT that Twitter is inferior to FriendFeed based on communication alone because look...here I am, discussing this topic and others can follow along w/o having to search through random comments and pages [they can even comment easily also! *gasp*!]. FF probably will die eventually, but Twitter was freakin' stillborn. Just a glorified RSS service...
- Scott Carmichael
Its all becoming a Robert Scoble 'self fullfilling prophecy' lately on here. You can't have a conversation on Twitter like this, twitter is a newsreel of headline news, that's all its good for, Friend Feed is as its name implies, a feed for friends to discuss anything under the sun, and not just about technical stuff.
- Sandra Large
I don't agree that a person who's become dissatisfied with a service should leave. I've often heard change should come from within. With that said, I'm not sure Robert is pushing for positive change. Can it occur? With Zuckerberg calling the shots, maybe not. Maybe he owns every idea that the FFounders will ever have for the next few yrs, keeping those changes for Zuck's baby. Maybe FF will improve, & maybe the techies who were drowned out on Twitter will find they can be seen & heard here. Who knows?
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
My post is up: http://scobleizer.com/2009...
- Robert Scoble
Gone mainstream?
- Amit Morson
it gone mainstream alright
- Fajar Nurdiansyah
You can't blame Robert for the fact that the FF guys sold out AND left the ship more or less rudderless. If they had bothered to figure out even a tiny bit of a PR strategy around the take-over, then things might not have gone downhill so fast, or at all. And, yes, you can filter out all of the emo stuff (nothing wrong with it BTW, but that can be had from your IRL friends on Facebook)...
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- Alex Schleber
Robert: accepting the accuracy of observations about the amount of interesting conversations from your perspective, there still remains a question regarding what could be the cause? while one theory may be a decline in friendfeed activity, another possibility is the decline in your own activity. what evidence can support one hypothesis over the other?
- Mike Chelen
methinks a service can go on without an ego? personally i pop back here every now and again for the occasional conversation. i'd prefer more intelligent discussions on here, not just tech related, maybe i'm not following enough people? eh.
- Terry O'Fee
+1,000 joey. "emo stuff" that can be "found on Facebook"? LOTS of arrogance on display here from several directions. Alex, I know that you're tempering your statement by saying that there's nothing wrong with "emo stuff", but that's still awfully dismissive. FF is more like a number of simple blogs because the whole world can access the posts. FB is a walled garden, and tends to be way more dumbed-down (except for when I look at the FF people I'm subscribed to in FB).
- Kamilah Gill
Hey, guys? Don't feed the troll.
- Akiva Moskovitz
from BuddyFeed
now you tell us.
- Jim Hearts FF
Friendfeed never gone..!
- ★ Soner Gönül
Congratulations, you score high on the douche-o-meter!
- Mark Wilson
Well if FriendFeed has nothing else going for it, I can at least read a deep exchange of ideas here as to why it's toast. Perhaps thats why I'm sticking. Btw, slightly off topic, but am I the only one finding Twitter list creation a complete chore compared to doing the same on FriendFeed?
- David Hall
I don't see the problem. My pecs dominate your feed. Who can complain about that?
- Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF
LOL @Rasheen™
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Rahsheen, it's ok to let the one's own fun part of life intersect one's social media sphere http://friendfeed.com/tad... , but not when it's someone else and it can be used in the wrong context to misappropriate a point.
- Micah Wittman
It amazes me how people will continue to use a service just to complain about it. Just STFU and GTFO.
- Steve Lowe
Micah, I don't follow what you're saying...
- Kamilah Gill
Robert - Just make Twitter fix the 140 character limit thing already!
- Matthew DeVries
then it would be a blog or what a tumble log?
- ffcode
strange people resist so much even when they know this is it
- ffcode
Robert, setting aside your point, your methodology here is insulting. Why? My response is here: http://friendfeed.com/zeigen...
- Stephen Mack
Kamilah, fair point. I'll explain without sarcasm. Robert's shower photo was a bit of fun that is fine and doesn't represent the whole of his on- or off-line contribution. Andy's photoshopped photo of Rahsheen doesn't represent the whole of Andy's contribution (which is very much technical, btw) or by extension the community's many contributions through the friendfeed medium. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
- Micah Wittman
friend feed is totally awesome!
- Bishal Adhikary
great one man...
- Bishal Adhikary
COMMENT 1) "There's a lot more than me here. http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo.... shows lots of things that are getting engagement. - Robert Scoble" http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo... ... COMMENT 2) "You are not following the right people. This is always the problem if FriendFeed isn't working for you. - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF" http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo...
- Micah Wittman
I just looked, and http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo... still is getting a lot of engagement and there's is stuff to learn there.
- Micah Wittman
Robert, I am considered a "geek" by a number of people, but I don't need or want to talk about technology 24/7. I have other interests and I like to see where they connect. I want to see coalescence. I can't get disparate connections always watching or listening to the same track. Even Richard Feynman believed that...as do many others in other "geek" fields. When I was little I happened...
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- Melanie Reed
Robert, are you reading the tech related groups? If you read Best of you are going to get all sorts of stuff as you know. I have lists and saved searches for specific topics and browse them for the likes of tech. Best of it not the best place for tech only (well any single topic).
- Kol Tregaskes
I've come to the conclusion that all of Robert's posts must be read with one fact kept in mind. Even when he doesn't say it, his posts are based on the assumption that many/most people want and like what he wants.
- Eoghann Irving
Robert, why do you constantly feel the need to shake the death rattle? We are well aware that FF is dying and even more aware that you see it coming. If you really did care about the service you would try to reverse the trend instead of speeding it up.
- Jason Williams
from iPhone
Robert I joined FF when I saw you singing praises of it on Twitter and have been loving it ever since, you seem to have a lot of interesting stuff to say, and a lot of people follow you. But, you seriously need to stop coming to FriendFeed and doing everything in your considerable power to kill it, and then complain because you are successful in doing that. Twitter is for people who like shouting through megaphones in a crowd of people shouting through megaphones, FF is for people who like conversations.
- Ed Millard
@edmillard ..said the man who only imports one thing into FF, his Twitter account.. seriously though. Scoble can't kill FF because it's already dead, it just doesn't know it yet. And yes, I am still using it for a bit because it makes such a handy searchable archiving/surfacing tool, and for some aspects of the community. But the reality is that FF founder's sold out b/c they were lacking confidence that they could change FF sufficiently/quickly enough to sustain any real growth.
- Alex Schleber
So FriendFeed founders gave up and sold out to Zuckerberg more or less for the liquidation value, i.e. for their IP and continued highly-skilled/paid labor for FB. It's that simple. Thinking about it any other way is a fantasy. 5 Stages of Grief... And yes, it pains me to say it. Had high hopes for this platform. I wish they would have found a way to evolve FF where it would have continued to grow, I don't think they were very far off. It's like the gold-miners who gave up 10 ft from the mother lode.
- Alex Schleber
Alex you are mistaken, most of my recent posts are from FF and sometimes cross posted to Twitter if they are short and not FF specific. I didn't know the FF etiquette that twitter posts are shunned when I started. Most of my limited time here is spent in comments anyway, since I prefer the conversations to the megaphone.
- Ed Millard
@Ed "Twitter is for people who like shouting through megaphones in a crowd of people shouting through megaphones, FF is for people who like conversations." You basically summed up my blog post about this whole thing (http://friendfeed.com/bluecoc...)...
- Her Lindsay-ness
Lindsey, same concept, yours was thorough, mine was short. I think part of being a geek is we opt for the superior tech, not the popular tech. FB and Twitter are popular but inferior for conversation. I had no interest in them until I found FF recently. Its a problem we geeks are letting Zuckerberg kill the superior tech here with his checkbook. I'm thinking we should launch an open friend feed like directeur is talking about, free of business conflicts. It is the geek thing to do but it would be hard.
- Ed Millard
One bad day does not mean it is bad for the whole year :)
- ashish
don't you ever get tired of hitting refresh every other minute?
- Giancarlo Caparo
LOL, let's see you sort though hundreds of reply of Twitter, shoot a video of that...
- Robert Higgins
*yawns*
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Sadly, FF has largely become a photo sharing, jokes and food pics sharing site - tech community is gone.
- Susan Beebe
Yes, Twitter really has raised the bar in that arena.
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Glen LOL
- Susan Beebe
ZING! I shared a lame joke a few minutes ago, Susan! http://ff.im/aTQG6 I don't feel really bad about it. That's true, many people know me as a developer, but I'm not only that. I'm a jazz/anime/languages... LOVER :)
- directeur
If only someone would have told Robert that his feed is his own creation and if he is unhappy there is only one place to look fir the reason. Oh, wait...
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
from iPod
seriously, talk about mis-matched comparisons. This general list is less focused than that built-for-a-purpose list? Well, no offense, but no shit, Sherlock.
- Chieze Okoye
Stage Five of Being an Early Adopter - http://blog.louisgray.com/2008...
Laurie Woo, anna sauce, Rajiv Doshi and 51 other people liked this
From June of 2008: "The adopter will, at this point, start heaping lavish praise upon the new product, in a quest to assert their dominance, and prove that they can, again, make a service successful, and to prove that all their belly-aching in the preceding months was valid. The adopter will use their blog and both the new and old service to call followers to migrate as a group, both helping the new shiny toy, and in turn, damaging the old one, out of spite and frustration."
- Louis Gray
from Bookmarklet
Just because we understand doesn't mean we have to appreciate the tactics. Robert, I like you a lot as a person, and you have brought a lot of benefit to the tech community through your discoveries and your evangelism. But this is the role of yours that I like less. I think much of my activity and visibility was gained through watching you and learning some things you do well. But also through watching you, there are aspects of what you do that I have chosen to avoid.
- Louis Gray
Despite your apologies to the people you mentioned in your post, upon their leaving, you suggested that those who made noise on the way out the door should have instead stayed quiet. This would be a good time to take a deep breath and remember the reason you were so positive on this place. I am not personally offended, but I am disappointed.
- Louis Gray
What is interesting to me (and I think one of the reasons why this has me so irritable tonight) is that this human trait and these stages aren't limited to technology adoption. I've seen it in music and other art communities, projects in non-profits, etc. and it always grates on me. I want sustainable communities, but I suppose when finding the next big thing or being top of the food chain is someone's job or goal, it's hard to cultivate those. Where is the balance?
- joey
Fair enough. I've said my last word about it. I'm sorry I'm being a jerk but I did put in thousands of hours here and participated more than most people over two years. So, a few posts of disappointment are earned by me, even if they are disappointing.
- Robert Scoble
Thanks. Hey - you know I like you. I'm in the same boat you are, much of the time, but I'm being more measured. And piling on at this point validates the naysayers who were never productive, and who can gain from cutting down your enthusiasm in the future.
- Louis Gray
P.S. I intentionally didn't send this to Twitter.
- Louis Gray
Louis: here's the thing. There's a hide button on all my posts for a reason. Or you can even block me. If I really am migrating somewhere else then it won't matter if you block me, will it? That said, it was good times and FriendFeed still has some uses, like what we're doing here and live chats and such. Although I notice Leo Laporte's fans have largely moved back to IRC or Google Wave for his Twit shows.
- Robert Scoble
I won't ever hide you or block you. That's silly. Besides, I read all your stuff in Google Reader. I see the same things you do. We've talked about it a lot 1-1 even before the FB acquisition. It's all over but the shouting. But I say let's skip the shouting. :)
- Louis Gray
Great nail-head post, Louis. I like Drew's comment. ;) Being on the educator side of things, Robert, and always having to push students into the "latest and greatest" software and current upgrade, it does get old real fast, having to crank out new curriculum for the latest toy on the market. The basics of computer science are going by the way side in many programs at universities as a result. It's not a healthy tension. It's a contributor: we've lost students adding to the mix of enrollments going down.
- Melanie Reed
Robert, I hope if you remove your imports from here you'll add them over on Facebook. These are my Twitter clients - Twitter still doesn't cut it as a client for me. I also enjoy the threaded conversation, personally. Conversation in the same stream as your posts IMO clutters the conversation. I like to respond where I'm not cluttering up my stream.
- Jesse Stay
Leo picked up a story today that i brought to his attention via a for:twit delicious tag... when it hit http://friendfeed.com/twit-st... i added in some quotes from the article and he read them out while bringing up the topic... these tools are still useful if only a handful of people use them...
- Chris Heath
Louis: sorry, you don't see the same stuff I do. But I WOULD love to debate you on Google Reader. You can even see my tech news feeds here: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... works fast. My Google Reader takes more than a minute to start up. Useless.
- Robert Scoble
Jesse: unlike Technosailor I would NEVER delete content, especially yours. That's why I thought he was such a jerk. By deleting his account on his way out he deleted MY content too. Grrrr.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, another reason I like Facebook :-) When your account is deleted your stuff stays on your friends' pages.
- Jesse Stay
Why would Google reader take more than a minute to start up? Mine took 12 seconds and that includes times to login.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF
Jesse: I know you and I like conversation. The stark reality that I've come to face is most people DON'T like having conversation, or, more accurately, they don't like having conversation with people they didn't invite to have a conversation with. I hope Twitter, if they ever add comments under tweets, will let us limit to ONLY those people we've personally added.
- Robert Scoble
Robert I'll expect that from Facebook before I expect it from Twitter. Imagine if you can limit a comment thread to just a specific friend list. Facebook is *so* close! Right now I can do that, but it also includes the other networks I'm in. I'm betting on them getting there very, very soon.
- Jesse Stay
I think what you are doing with your Twitter lists is great, and you are doing them better than anybody else. But I still prefer Google Reader. There's little to debate, because there is no need for a "one right answer" response. I would prefer to not read headlines and links all day on Twitter amidst the noise.
- Louis Gray
Louis: that's cool. I predict you'll change your view there within a year or two. I'm just ahead of you and am reading more inbound (more people, more things, more brands). Google Reader doesn't scale to the level I needed it to. Can't even handle more than 1,000 people. Grrr.
- Robert Scoble
Personally, whatever allows me to consolidate my workflow the best wins. Whether it's bringing all my services to e-mail or another client, or bringing all my activity into one service, that would be ideal. Right now what I'm doing is the best workflow I can come up with. I admit for me FriendFeed is getting to be less and less of that as Facebook gets more and more real-time. As for Google Reader, there are only a couple things keeping me from switching there.
- Jesse Stay
"Ahead of you" implies there's a contest. There's not. Twitter is infrastructure, and you're using it well. But you still can't have the conversations there like we are here. You still can't type in full sentences. Blah blah. You know this stuff cold. :) Lists are filters or window dressing on a weak foundation.
- Louis Gray
If you assume this place fades away or gets messy, I'll show you some interesting alternatives where I am already engaging. But that's for another day.
- Louis Gray
Lous, you, me, and Robert should all get in a room some day and show our alternatives. I have time tomorrow :-)
- Jesse Stay
Louis: yes. I'm waiting for you to find the way through the forest so we can follow you all again! That said, again, most people don't want conversations. They just want to learn. Remember libraries? They didn't have conversations either. As to 140 character problems that's why we have blogs, no? :-)
- Robert Scoble
I have time too!
- Robert Scoble
I'm in downtown SF though without a car so I'd need a ride (or you could meet at my hotel) :-)
- Jesse Stay
You're in SF? Hmmm. Let's talk first thing in the morning (9ish).
- Robert Scoble
Well, I will be at 9am - my flight leaves Utah at 7am MST
- Jesse Stay
Call me any time though - 801-853-8339
- Jesse Stay
Robert, I disagree with most people just want to learn. To learn what? Is this the corporatization again of how society is supposed to interact with one another....not based on relationship but on outdoing someone with more information? FriendFeed does (or is attempting) to do both as it should be.
- Melanie Reed
Jesse: call me when you're in SF. Melanie: most people just want to sit on the couch and be entertained. This is why Twitter pushes celebrities so hard! No work necessary, just scan through your favorite celebrities talking about their pimples.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, Don't you think that is a rather shallow and corporatized assessment of your fellowman? I agree there is a market behavior. But who manipulated them to it? Let me use a metaphor: I can stop using any patience or long term goal thinking and just put a jar of sugar out on the table for dinner. It will give every body quick results. I can add to that some bacon rinds.... anything...
more...
- Melanie Reed
Robert said: "Most people...don't like having conversation with people they didn't invite to have a conversation with." But that's what's so cool about Friendfeed - no filter blocking the uninvited.
- Michael Slattery
Yes, Michael, FriendFeed is democracy in action. Every voice has a chance to be heard as if he or she was as good as the next man or woman no matter how insignificant their ratings or standing in the world of technology. We can be citizens of Whoville and FriendFeed welcomes all whos. :)
- Melanie Reed
If people don't want to have conversations how come so many people on Twitter are attempting to have conversations? People are clearly not just looking for information on Twitter or any of the other social networks.
- Eoghann Irving
I blogged about this here: http://scobleizer.com/2009...
- Robert Scoble
Wow, just catching up on this.... I too have invested THOUSANDS of hours here on FF - evidenced by over 18+K comments and 26+K likes. Very sad to see this platform die a slow death. The "forum" problem is real. I was horrified by how Mike and later Aaron were treated here on FF (crowd feeding frenzy at it's worse). I would LOVE to know what you all think is the next platform to "Discover" :)
- Susan Beebe
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