"Yes, of course... but I think the Air should include that. If it's the perfect mobility offer from Apple, I don't want to invest in/depend on in any other device."
- Julien
"Far point... unfortunately, I wonder if now the algorithm isn't some kind of recursive thing, were if you apply it now, the rankings will not be even close to what they should be because it takes legacy into account."
- Julien
"You're right. However, I think Friendfeed was still too much a hybrid between the "consuming app" and the "publishing app". I really want better consuming apps for all me social activities online."
- Julien
Twitter is just a few simple things away from running an open-standards based stack in parallel with their own stack. Neither is wrong, but there are merits to doing it over existing standards as well. Let's start a movement.
- DeWitt Clinton
A movement sounds great. I support you! :)
- Meryn Stol
As soon as Twitter opens up the firehose to everyone, someone can create a "mirror" of sorts that does all the right things PSHB-wise.
- Eric Florenzano
Eric, I don't think they'll provide the firehose for free anytime soon. I think that right now it's an important source of revenue for them.
- Meryn Stol
@Eric, are things like favorites in the firehose? What prompted this is that my favorites feed (http://twitter.com/favorit...) is still not updated on FriendFeed. All Twitter needs to do is stick a rel="hub" in there and run a hub (heck, they could use Superfeedr's or Google's) and sites like FriendFeed would get the fat pings instantly. A few hours of work and immediately the web would be better, faster, and more open.
- DeWitt Clinton
We can't... from the BirdDog content license - "5.ii.b - No Redistribution. Unless expressly authorized by Twitter, you may not distribute, sublicense, lease, rent or re-syndicate the Content or the Content Feed on a stand-alone basis, or display or perform the Content anywhere except on your Service." -- http://twitter.com/help...
- Ken Sheppardson
This has already been discussed on the Twitter dev list (between myself and John K.) - short answer was no. Looking for that discussion...
- Jesse Stay
Best solution right now is for us all to develop a standard that copies Twitter's, get that widely used and adopted with open source software that implements it, and then when Twitter is in the minority, tag on a real-time layer to it.
- Jesse Stay
We (Superfeedr) are indeed working on that... it's not quite ready, but hopefully I'll have good news for early next week :) As a matter of facts, it works wuit well with user feeds already :) Search feeds are a little bit harder.
- Julien
Julien, what are you guys doing about the terms of Service? I thought Twitter didn't allow that.
- Jesse Stay
Per my link above, from John Kaluci: "Technically, someone could build a service to consume from the Streaming API and push into PubSubHubBub. This would be against the EULA though. "
- Jesse Stay
"5.ii.b - No Redistribution. Unless expressly authorized by Twitter, you may not distribute, sublicense, lease, rent or re-syndicate the Content or the Content Feed on a stand-alone basis, or display or perform the Content anywhere except on your Service." -- http://twitter.com/help...
- Ken Sheppardson
@Jesse -- good read. Just to frame this, I'll be honest, I'm not all that interested an "OpenTwitter." (Though I am all for a more open Twitter, and have nothing against people that want to clone the Twitter API.) I think what they've done is neat, but it is only a small part of what can be done once we make the web itself better at low-latency distribution of content + federation of identity and social graphs.
- DeWitt Clinton
There's something much more powerful afoot than any single network or any single API. Think what could be enabled with Atom and RSS, PubSubHubbub (or rssCloud), Salmon, ActvityStreams, OAuth, OpenID, Webfinger, and Portable Contacts. That dwarfs any single thing we've seen thus far. In other words, don't think OpenTwitter; think bigger.
- DeWitt Clinton
Seems to me the real attraction of Twitter's API is as a *publishing* protocol, not necessarily as a way to consume streams. For that we have the collection/stack DeWitt mentioned. But allowing someone to push out what they're doing form their iPhone, Air app, etc., sure... OpenTwitter's a good option. And that's how the platforms like Wordpress, Tumblr, etc are implementing it, right?
- Ken Sheppardson
OpenTwitter could technically work on RSS. I'm thinking about a gateway of some sort that reads in RSS/RSSCloud/Atom/PSHB and publishes out in Twitter-compatible format so all the Twitter clients can understand it. I think it could actually work well with RSS, but for Twitter and others to adopt RSS, market forces are going to have to push them to do so. They're much more likely if we make it as easy as possible for the Twitter clients to do so.
- Jesse Stay
* rssCloud insufficient as a base for mublogging federation. * we'll support it for real time updates (as much as we can). * if there's more functionality added to rssCloud / and/or other protocols that we can use, we'll support and adapt to new protocols as they evolve. Regarding: xmpp pubsub * it's heavy (need server, etc.) * we'd like to have it, maybe we should implement, but not a high priority right now. http://status.net/wiki...
- A Mitchell
Thanks for the link to the OMB roadmap, A Mitchell. In general I like that direction -- identify and create the requisite underlying technologies, then build the special purpose (Twitter-like, microblogging, etc) services on top of them.
- DeWitt Clinton
Also, I should add that I'm only suggesting rel="hub" and PSHB support for the per-user feeds. The firehose is a different story -- I'm not asking for that -- it scales differently and has direct implications for Twitter's business model.
- DeWitt Clinton
DeWitt, I agree, but Twitter didn't make it sound like that was happening any time soon when I asked in that thread above. You should bring it up again on the dev list though - I'd love to see that, yes.
- Jesse Stay
"Fully agree with you, once more :) For the identify, I think OAuth isn't the answer (or maybe I'm missing something). I think eventually, we will have to accept that identity cannot be enforced accross social networks and that julien on twitter may not be julien on identica. the only way we can deal with that is just provide better 'user search' apis (twitter's suck to that regard)"
- Julien
"My approach toward this : every user, whatever network they're own should be able to subscribe to any user on any service.... I haven't said anything new so far :) Any user on any service is only availbale through RSS/Atom feeds. On Twitter you're http://twitter.com/statuse......, while on your blog, you're http://code-bear.com/bearlog... etc... So, for me the "open-twitter" (or rather open social network) is something that allows me subscribe to feeds. Then, these feeds have to be "richer" then just feed/entries/link. I want activitues and more dettails about them => ActivityStreams come into the game. The whole "push" and federation system is built via PubSubHubbub hubs. Your feeds should always tell which hub they "ping". So when I subscribe to you (your feed, wherever it is), my "social network consuming tool" (a feed reader on steroids actually... ask Loic to do that!) should be able to know where to get the data from (which hubs). It then asks the hub..."
- Julien
"The problem with the Twitter API is that it's only "publishing" part... the hard (and most interesting) is by far the pubsub, broadcasting, federating part."
- Julien
"Ha, this time I disagree : the brackets are here because some app might link to several feeds, and I think it's up to the user to know what e wants : http://feediscovery.appspot.com/...... I'll remove the ; though :) And the content-type doesn't seem to be changeable from GAE :/"
- Julien
I'd prefer to use Google's method: http://code.google.com/apis... . Few reasons: a) Not an appspot domain, meaning I won't run into any service down limitations due to overuse, b) Google tends to support their APIs over long periods of time, and thus are more reliable, c) Google's method allows for a callback parameter, meaning I can use it with AJAX requests without cross-domain problems.
- Otto
"You're right, I'll add the jsonp callback right away! As for Google's API, I have to say I didn't know it existed... did a basic search but didn't find it at that time."
- Julien
What is the use of real-time if you only provide the summaries in your feeds?
- John Robinson
Well, at least you don't have to poll over and over again. You KNOW when there is content you can fetch!
- Julien
Very true! I love the idea of the real-time web. Summaries in feeds just seem to go against the whole general idea of easier/faster access to content. I tend to avoid subscribing to summary feeds all together though so I guess I'm pretty biased on the subject.
- John Robinson
stoyan: It's interesting to see who will pickup the news first - push-bot@appspot.com or jit-news@appspot.com . They both are using superfeedr for a hub - http://reatiwe.appspot.com/entry...
bear: wanted to watch @julien51 demo @superfeedr in the #leweb competition - one company who has become the engine for realtime web for devs IMO - http://twitter.com/bear...
"we're introducing new features that bring your search results to life with a dynamic stream of real-time content from across the web."
- Jeremy Hylton
from Bookmarklet
There are so many additional sources that Google needs for its realtime data :)
- Julien