"Hillary Clinton plans to accept the job of secretary of state offered by Barack Obama, who is reaching out to former rivals to build a broad coalition administration, the Guardian has learned." - Dave Winer
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Smart move... better to have her in the administration than on the outside criticizing every move by Obama. - Mark Martinez
Half of it was right. And I'm not posting this from Twitter. ;) - Chris White
Time will tell, but I think it was correct decision. - imran
It's made you one of my favorite bloggers, if that makes you feel any better about it. If you weren't heavy on the social exploration I probably wouldn't read. - Daniel J. Pritchett
From my perspective, yes. It's a much more interactive and broader experience for all. - Kevin C. Tofel
The right decision from which perspective, Robert? Did you increase "eyeballs?" Revenue? Both? Other? - Mark VandenBerg
I like FriendFeed and Twitter, but don't see how they compare to developing thoughtful, deeper blog posts. Really, I think FF and Twitter have their place, and I love them as well, but that place is certainly not a replacement for blogging. - Michael Krigsman
I think yes. Most folks can read twitter 100% of the time -- blogs are scanned. You tend to link to good stuff from twitter and have good headlines. - Ted Simpson
No question about that. In the past, websites were static compared to blogs. Now blogs are static compared to microblogging services. - Berci Mesko
I think only you can be the judge of that. We're all beginning to look at blogs as sort of the core of our outreach, so I'm not sure investing time in microblogging elsewhere is an either/or question. You are you. Your blog and social media network are simply extensions. If you're happy with your business model and continuing to grow, what's the problem? :-) - Chris Baskind
Mark: Revenue? Didn't change much. Eyeballs? Well, I have almost 21,000 followers here that I didn't have at the beginning of the year. Zach: I just saw that FriendFeed was going to be one of the most interesting new services of the year. Seeing how it was on the screen at the Chinese BloggerCon I think I picked the right services. - Robert Scoble
I consider FF as blogging in many ways and more interesting than a blog. - imran
You certainly moved the ball forward for the two companies. And if you think they're a vital part of the "internet plumbing", you absolutely made the right decision in helping to secure their futures. - Christopher Galtenberg
I've shut down my blog for the time being. Not getting the interaction out of it, the way I'm getting out of experiences on FF and Twitter. I think if you want more conversation online, the blogs (for now) would not be the way to go. - Helen Sventitsky
are the 21K followers different from people who followed your blog already? if so that is in increase. if not then the eyeballs are moving from your blog to friend feed. - Jonathan Jesse
My twitter lives alongside my blog in the sidebar, and I keep track of all my tweets by feeding it into a lifestream stored on my server. i think that's the key, as the two platforms, microblogging and blogging, work nicely together. - C. K. Sample III
@Michael great thoughts on blogs allowing for deeper thought development. that greater development, might lead to more meaningful discussion on FF then what may occur in the comment section - Jonathan Jesse
Also, check out Twitemperature if you like Twitter. Tells you whether you're hot or cold based upon what you've tweeted and how it ties into online trends and community: http://twitemperature.com - C. K. Sample III
It's a good question -- I've been thinking (and writing a bit) about the question of a blogging / microblogging balance. My working theory: that going forward the most successful bloggers will be strong microbloggers, and vice versa. - Eric Berlin
Robert, then I have a wunderbar über wonderful idea for you! You know, you can trust me :) - directeur
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There are plenty of people up at blog-level covering "the scene". You're on the ground with people as they're trying things, talking about what's missing, what they need, what they like and don't. I think this is a good place for a tech-head to be. But blog posts to send signals up and out to the other tech-heads, reviewing your time embedded with the troops, will still be vital for growth of the net. - Christopher Galtenberg
No =) The audience for the standard blog delivery system is different than a hyper-conversation micro-blogging system. While these services are great with interactivity, they do not generate useful long term content in most cases due to short posts (usually under 120 characters) and basically being a link farm rather than useful content. The initial "posts" are not as in-depth as a typical blog post, and the comments are often "me too" type of responses as well. Balance your tweets vs. your blog posts =) - RAD Moose
I found I moved too much of my activity to Twitter and FriendFeed - I have tried to return to more blog postings, since I do have a community of readers that is only there. - Richard Akerman
Yes, I've heard little about your blog posts, but I've heard plenty about you being very open & active on social sites. That kind of interaction with your audience is a refreshing change and I'm sure it helps your reach (though I'm sure that's not what you meant). - Cains
Honestly? You put you in front of me. I would not have gotten to the blog as often, as I've seen you here. Just too much to read. - Ed Shaz/NextInstinct
I personally miss the longer/thought out posts that used to appear on your blog. While I don't think that using FF/Twitter has been a bad thing, and I know that you don't have time for *everything*, your more "editorial" and reporting style of blogging is missed. - drew olanoff
Cross posting of comments between blogs and friendfeed would be an interesting development. - Andrew Leyden
Jonathan: I think I've gained a good percentage of new people who found me here on FriendFeed. That's why I have more followers here than, say, Michael Arrington does or Leo Laporte do (and they should have WAY more, because of the size of their audiences). - Robert Scoble
I ask myself the same question often regarding whether I should spend so much time on social media sites instead of just writing content on my blogs. What I don't think I realized is that I'm still creating valuable content at all of my outposts that are still ultimately leading to my blogging hub. I think its been well worth it. - Mark Krynsky
@Andrew WordPress has a nice plugin to link to FriendFeed activity. Unfortunately for my platform (TypePad) I don't know of an equivalent. - Richard Akerman
ppl will follow you anywhere on web i think, but this is the best place to folllow you. - imran
I find FriendFeed to be more engaging, but it would be nice to gauge the amount of traffic a post on FF gets. - Spencer
the #friendfeed, #twitter, #socialmedian instantaneous replies, directs, and comments distributed throughout feed aggregation access points establishes a better communication channel for your voice - shayne catrett
depends. did you sacrifice blog content & share it on FF/Twitter? - I stopped blogging about useless junk since I can simply throw that stuff up on FF or Twitter now. Less frequent are my blog posts, but more quality, at least I think - Enrique Gutierrez
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@Richard if you can migrate to Six Apart's Movable Type 4, they have a widget for FF -- in fact, I'm going to be trying to get it running on my blog tonight - Woodrow Jarvis Hill
Here's how you get your answer: (1) Go get some sleep. You just got back from China! (2) Wake up and look at the likes/comments on this item. (3) Compare those numbers against responses to your best blog post this year. - Bruce Lewis
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It depends what you're after. Knowing you, it was the right decision - twitter and friendfeed are like a quickfire conversation, here there, lots of input, changing topics all the time. Blogs are the considered discussion...or lecture. Different methods of communication, you choose which one you prefer. - Rachel Clarke
Blogging is more of a one-way street, FF and Twitter are interactive. It's pretty obvious they are the natural evolution and successor to web collaboration. - Tyler Hurst
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Absolutely. FriendFeed and Twitter are so much more interactive and personal than blogs. I'm liking the transition to more personal mediums. - Mark Martinez
Add one more who simply wouldn't follow you regularly if not for ff ... No other method gives the constant positive reinforcement and active conversation - David HC Soul
For those using a blog for SEO and drive quality links to their retail or commercial site, the answer would be no. However, I personally find it difficult to follow all my favorite blogs in a timely manner, ever on a reader. So for me, Twitter & FF is a better avenue to follow your messages. - Rick Bucich
Less smack talk about Twitter on this thread (any?) than FF smack on Twitter. Me senses some insecurity about the topic from those not yet FF-savvy. - Christopher Galtenberg
welp -- yes. I think for reblogging and some conversation both are great. Cross the streams and have a Facebook page updated regularly too. Use a blog for long form pieces and comment threads (although I see less value frankly in the signal to noise ratio on blog comments), and feed your blog to Twitter/FF as well... at least that's my tack. - Robert Denton
It certainly was the right decision.. In fact I didn't even know about you before I joined Twitter and FF...:) and I don't think blogs will get feedback like the way you get on Twitter of FF. Also Twitter & FF can be a major source of traffic to your blog. - Devakishor
Dave, this post hops over a lot of the parroting of pundits that usually fills the blogs. It has stunned me that the same folks who felt the world would end if Wall Street companies that pay hundreds of hustlers millions of dollars would fail, however, an industry that pays millions of workers hundreds of dollars can go down without serious consequences. - Phil Boiarski
Not to mention that GM's brands are very popular in China, so by killing GM we'd be removing one of the few things that gets money to come back here from China (there aren't very many left). - Robert Scoble
GM has made many, many mistakes. Why should we let them stay in business? - Tyler Hurst
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Tyler: they have made many, many right decisions, too. My Saturn Aura is a great car (it is made by GM). When I was in Shanghai I saw GM cars all over the place. They employ something like seven million people around the world. So you are ready to put seven million people on the street? Why don't we put you and your business on the street? I'm sure you make mistakes every day too. - Robert Scoble
Chapter 11 doesn' have to put people on the street, as long as the govt provides a guarantee on DIP financing. See today's NYT Sorkin piece for details:-) - Francine Hardaway
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Yes, but my business isn't going bankrupt. Hey, I drive a GM car, I don't want them to go under, but why should my tax dollars save them? - Tyler Hurst
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Tyler: because if you put those people out of work they'll cost you tax dollars and you won't get anything in return then. - Robert Scoble
The bailout money would be better spent on assitance to those who are impacted... re-training, relocation assistance, etc. Now (NOT, I meant NOT) wishing for GM go go away - but they have big issues that NEED to be addressed... not patched over (again). - Brian Roy
But what would I be getting for a bailout? If it's anything like the banks, it seems like more of the same! Will GM diversify, streamline and stop making gaudy SUVs? If they are to be bailed out, someone better should be running the company. Where's the hybrid cars? Why aren't they making more of them? - Tyler Hurst
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Tyler: I agree with you, mostly. It's just that if you dump tons of people on the street to teach a corporation a lesson it increases the problems greatly. You also aren't going to find jobs for many of these workers, even after retraining. They simply aren't there. So, short term, I'm all for keeping the jobs going. - Robert Scoble
Tyler, that would be the point behind any kind of bailout. GM is told build hybrids and more fuel efficient cars in order to get the money. Use the bailout money as an incentive to restructure the industry. - Paul
Everyone keeps assuming all these people will get "dumped on the street", but I'm not sure I believe that. Will they shut down entirely? No. So how are 7mill losing their jobs? - ♫ Rahsheen™
"GM has made many, many mistakes." The mistakes were made in design and product decisions, not on the assembly line. Those who made decisions to manufacture Suburbans and ignore hybrid technology should suffer, not the guy bolting it together. And we'll either pay in "bailout" (which we might get back) or in unemployment benefits and other safety net spending (which we won't). - John Craft
A bailout is just a bandage. If it's not fixing the real problems, then why do it? Won't we go through this again? Instead of a bailout, why doesn't the gov't buy the damn company, fire all the upper management and subsidize sustainable/hybrid techology? - Tyler Hurst
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Hopefully there are enough STRONG rules attached to the bailout to force both the execs and the unions to change direction and start making good cars for the long term. a straight bailout will just prolong the business-fail-as-usual mentality that exudes from Detroit. - Glenn Batuyong
Rasheen, at some point another manufacturer (e.g. Honda) might buy some GM assets (factory). But the delay, and uncertainty, will further erode confidence. No one wants to prop up "business as usual" - the goal is to ease (and demand) the transition. - John Craft
Tyler: if you put all those workers on the street you'll have far more pain for far longer. Yes, we should get something in return, but I don't live in an ideal world and I don't always get what I want. - Robert Scoble
"why doesn't the gov't buy the damn company, fire all the upper management and subsidize sustainable/hybrid techology?" - Isn't that essentially what's happening? Have you read the bills introduced in the House and Senate? - John Craft
Rahsheen, any layoffs by GM, Ford or Chrysler is going to have ripple effect. It will cause layoff in their suppliers also. So the layoffs are going to be a lot larger then just GM..... - Paul
John- yes, but this isn't a takeover, it's a bailout. Just as Glenn said earlier, there must be STRONG rules to make sure this isn't just a handout. - Tyler Hurst
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Let them burn. The airlines had to restructure so will the auto makers. Enough with the fear mongering already. Fucking lemmings. - Leather Donut
Leather: where do you work? Can we say the same thing about your business? I'm sure your management hasn't made every best decision either. Plus, next year lots of businesses will lay people off. Should we cheer if you are one of those? - Robert Scoble
I think we can all agree that American automakers relied too heavily on SUVs. But what's the solution? - Tyler Hurst
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Tyler: that's because of our emphasis on quarterly results. I sure wish our markets would reward long-term thinking rather than worrying about this quarter and next. Capitalism itself brought us these problems. - Robert Scoble
Tyler: the solution is to take 10% of oil industry profits and put those into developing newer cars that'll get us off of oil. But that never will fly past the lobbyists. - Robert Scoble
+100 Robert - the short term thinking of today's day trader/hedge fund market create many of our current problems. - Brian Roy
True. Side note, has everyone here read Hot, Flat and Crowded? Fascinating. Great look toward what we SHOULD be doing. - Tyler Hurst
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Tyler: I watched Thomas Friedman give a speech while in Shenzhen, China. I saw everything he was talking about right outside of my window. This is the #1 problem for the next 20 years. By far. Friedman's work is very important, he just travels a lot so sees the problems in a way that the rest of us can't. - Robert Scoble
Robert, if short term thinking is what caused these problems, then why does Apple create awesome products? What really concerns me is when all this bailout stuff is going to stop. We are going to have this same conversation over and over for each bailout, until we cause US Treasuries to lose their AAA rating, and China, Russia, and the Middle East will start using another currency to trade with. That's what we are risking with these bailouts. - Chris White
Here's a thought: why not eliminate all tax breaks for and/or apply all windfall profit taxes on the fossil fuel industry toward the auto industry bailout? Jack CAFE standard up dramatically and, as others have proposed, commit the Federal Government to a complete overhaul of its vehicle fleet within 5 years, with the prerequisites that replacements must be built in the US and use alternative fuels or new technology. ... - Kevin Pedraja
That would ensure that 1) energy prices don't fall so fast that alt fuel programs wither 2) car makers are both required and incented to invest in new technology. - Kevin Pedraja
I would rather use my taxes to pay unemployment for all of US auto assembly line workers than use my taxes to bail out their braindead asleep-at-the-wheel management. I want my taxes to support American workers, not American executives. - Bjorn Stromberg
I was just thinkng today, how many times have we heard "The consequences of failure would bring chaos" during the past year? It's been the year of the Shepherd Boy. - Ted Gilchrist
Scoble, the stock was just delisted. Shitty management. But then again the management is not going to the government for a handout. I'm not using my taxes to pay for someone else to live when I have to worry about my own. - Leather Donut
The fear mongering is back. Chicken Little all over the place. GIMME $700 BILLION NOW or we will die. Look where that's going. This will keep happening unless people stop supporting the same mistakes and guess what none of this helps YOU. Why do I have to pay for some AIG exec's bonus? I would shed ZERO tears if he was left homeless. In fact, he should be for the monumental fuckup. - Leather Donut
President elect Obama will bring the President's weekly "fireside chat" into the 21st century by offering it not just on the radio, but in video on YouTube as well. It's as if the new populist President really cares whether the next generation has a connection to what he's doing. That's where the people are - on YouTube, on MySpace and on Facebook. - Leo Laporte
I agree and I hope he will, I have been reading Roosevelt Fireside Chats it is very interesting. We are at a very interesting time and crossroads I think, the choices that we make today will direct the global community of tomorrow for good or bad. - John D Reasor
It's great democracy in general that PE Obama use technology to communicate, connect and share. The fact that PE Obama may share more than the USA create is another story. - Johan
posted this on another: how come no one mentions they weekly address is already available as a podcast (http://www.whitehouse.gov/rss/... in English and in Spanish http://www.whitehouse.gov/rss/...) plus there is a section in the itunes store for the White House. in iTunes you can subscribe to the weekly radio address, plus the press briefings plus the state of the union. but i guess this all goes against the fact that obama is the first technologically savavy president - Jonathan Jesse
See you next week when I get there:-) Let's have a China discussion. - Francine Hardaway
Jonathan: I gained weight. I love Chinese food. Mexican is what I missed most. And Maryam's Iranian cooking. - Robert Scoble
This is the first time I checked out Dopplr. I don't really travel enough to justify its use, but it looks like an interesting service. - Ontario Emperor
Same Ontario, I think my two journeys are Lanzarote and the shop to buy some lunch :) - Joe Dawson (beta)
Yahoo! Inc. (Nasdaq:YHOO) today announced that its Board of Directors has initiated a search for a new Chief Executive Officer. Jerry Yang, co-Founder of Yahoo!, has decided to return to his former role as Chief Yahoo! upon the appointment of his successor as CEO, and he will also continue to serve on the Board. Yang, 40, assumed the CEO role at the Board's request in June 2007, and he has led Yahoo! through a strategic repositioning and transformation of its platform. - Leo Laporte
Is this too little, too late...? I wonder if Yang will still have too much influence within the organisation. I hope Yahoo isn't beyond saving at this point - Flickr, Delicious, Pipes, and FireEagle (to name a few) are great Yahoo! properties that deserve a chance to develop and thrive and I get the feeling that they've stagnated due to poor leadership and vision from the top down.. - Andrew Terry
Doesn't it make you wonder, though? What could the federal gov't (pre-Katrina) do for NO that they couldn't do for themselves? - Carter Rabasa
Carter's question is interesting. I think the interdependencies of urban centers and larger jurisdictions are not at all understood by the public, and that these arrangements are rather complex. Maybe brittle and sluggish too, but we need to understand what they are. I would hate to think we are reduced to city states that issue armies to forage among the forests and farms. We are not self-sufficient locally (consider that at the personal level) and we need to get over our illusions to the contrary. - Dennis E. Hamilton
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I have mixed thoughts about it. Bankruptcy protection is sufficient. Bailouts won't protect jobs; cos. won't adapt w/o incentive. - steplow = Steve Lowe
Any deal to bail out auto makers MUST include government oversight (it's our money) and requirements to restructure and retool. I'm not opposed to floaiting the industry again because I understand the magnitude of the impact its failure would have; however, I'm not interested in doing what we've done the last three times the auto industry's come calling for a blank check: let them continue doing bad business. If they knew how to run those businesses, we wouldn't be bailing them out, frankly. That said, the associated industries that will collapse if the auto industry is allowed to fail is 10x what the financial industry would result in the long term. - Bob M. Montgomery
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Any truth to reports that the $750 billion wall street bailout had $25 billion earmarked to auto industry? - Kevin W.
There is no reason to believe that "government oversight" would contribute to creating a successful auto industry. - Sean McBride
At different times, the chariot, horse buggy, and paddleboat industries were very important to the economies and infrastructures of their respective societies. Since we no longer have many chariots, buggies, or steamboats, 1 of 2 things happened: companies adapted or they died. The internal combustion, fossil-fuel-powered automobile is on the decline. Companies must adapt or die. It would be *very* painful for everyone to let them die. So, since they have shown no appetite for adapting on their own, we should use the leverage of any loan/bailout to force them to adapt in ways that will benefit everyone. - Robert Clockedile
The auto industry has destroyed $465 billion of capital in the last two decades. It's over. http://bit.ly/Zu5B - Carter Rabasa
I agree that the auto industry is like Katrina. It's a disaster that taxpayers and consumers need to be saved from. - Chris White
Steve, that's nonsense. Bankruptcy protection works if the company has the cash flow to continue operating. GM is failing because it has insufficient cash and can't go to the banks to borrow to keep operating. - Dave Winer
This is what I meant about people not paying attention to what's going on. There's a financial crisis. They would be failing even if their products were perfect. Toyota is in deep shit too. - Dave Winer
GM is failing because its products are inferior and it refuses to innovate. - Chris White
I'm not a big fan of big government, but it's obvious that the auto industry is inept and incapable of fixing itself. So, if its collapse cannot be allowed under current circumstances and we have to give them money, someone has to force the industry to adapt, as it's proven incapable of doing so itself. It's less an assumption that the government can do no harm and more of an understanding that it's in a position to intervene. - Bob M. Montgomery
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Dave: wrong. GM has plenty of revenue (http://bit.ly/vV3T), they just spend more than they earn (legacy costs, labor costs, etc). - Carter Rabasa
Dave, are you saying that GMs products are superior and it continues to innovate, or are you saying that it isn't important to have superior products and innovate? Their cash flow problem didn't happen overnight. Toyota, Honda and BMW aren't going out of business. - Chris White
GM invested heavily in a short-term market during the late 80s and early 90s (gas-guzzling SUVs and trucks) without any long range planning--actually, it was more arrogant and dismissive than a lack of planning even. There's been no incentive for the big three to innovate in the last 20 years; "just put knew fins on the car and they'll buy it" is an old auto industry mantra, one that's been dead for a few years now. I think this is an opportunity for the country to invest in itself and its future by ensuring the survival of these American companies and jobs while forcing them to adapt. - Bob M. Montgomery
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Carter, thanks for the multiple choice exam, but no thanks. :-) - Dave Winer
Bob, I agree with everything you say right up until the part about "ensuring the survival of these American companies." I really wonder if Microsoft, IBM, Apple, and Google were having tough times if we'd be asking taxpayers to bail them out. I would guess not. - Chris White
Please: will anyone here please explain to me why he or she believes that any government bureaucrat is capable of creating a successful high tech industry in a highly competitive environment? Why do you believe this? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to create a financially successful high tech product? - Sean McBride
Chris, I get your point completely. I think the essential difference is the scale of manufacturing jobs. We've watched entirely too many of these manufacturing jobs shipped out of the country in the last 3 decades already; the result is a weakened overall financial picture where once-strong manufacturing jobs have been replaced with weak service industry jobs (in a continuing effort to dumb down the American people into nothing more than consumers of goods instead of producers of goods). Of the four companies you mentioned, only IBM actually 'makes' things (at least on a research level; our Vermont IBM facility just underwent another round of cuts). The other companies have no manufacturing infrastructure to support, at least not at the scale that the auto industry does. It's always healthier for an economy to have people working and making things than importing everything and relying on low-paying retail jobs to fill the vacuum. It's no simple answer, but it's no simple problem. - Bob M. Montgomery
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Bob, Apple makes computers. In fact, it just introduced a revolutionary way of manufacturing laptops. It's just done in China. As far as US manufacturing goes, European and Japanese companies hire American workers to produce cars in the USA. It's just not done in Detroit, it's done in the South. - Chris White
I'm aware Apple makes computers, as I own 4 of them. None of Apple's manufacturing takes place in the States, so they're different in my mind. I'm fully aware of the the Toyota plants in Kentucky, the Kubota Tractor plants outside of Atlanta and such (I've visited several, as I'm in the equipment industry). Those numbers are, when compared to the rest of the manufacturing sector, token at best. They're valuable but small as a percentage. The number of manufacturing jobs lost and replaced with weak service jobs is staggering in the last 2 decades; the reason for this is a 'free market' corporate sector that's proving to be fairly inept when faced with consumer backlash, sagging incomes and global changes. All of the automotive industry is facing these challenges, but as has been pointed out, Toyota and Honda aren't being hit nearly as badly because they - Bob M. Montgomery
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...they planned ahead and changed gears over a decade ago (a result of a different corporate philosphy that demands true long range planning); they're also both very diversified through different sectors, which lessens the blow. - Bob M. Montgomery
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BTW, this is the precise conversation that needs to be going on all over America. Again, this is not a simple issue; there won't be simple answers, but the more people open up the discussion, the better. - Bob M. Montgomery
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The sea change is the big three need to get into the business of making autos, presently they are in the business of running a benefits and retirement trust. The only ones winning are the high ticket execs who continue to get big cake. - Dave Martin
I think people better wake up. Nobody will come out of this mess unscathed. Whether it be losing your job, losing equity in your home or losses in your investments or 401k. Pointing fingers isn't going to help here because we're all going to lose. For those looking for ideological purity in a solution forget it. Ideology makes for really bad policy. Letting the big three fail solves nothing but satisfies the need to punish the people we may feel responsible for the mess. - Paul
Paul - the main point is not whether the government SHOULD save the auto industry but whether it CAN save the auto industry. I don't see anyone here addressing that question. Yet again we are being stampeded into spending huge sums of money on projects that haven't been clearly explained. - Sean McBride
Sean - It may be foolish optimism, but I think it's possible that if the US automakers can survive this recession and come out of it leaner, producing with an eye towards the future instead of the past, and maintain significant manufacturing jobs, it's more than possible to save the industry as a whole. I go back to the possibility of also splitting up the big three into their component parts like the telcos as a viable option to boost success. - Bob M. Montgomery
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I think as important as if the government should bail out companies is where it's getting the money to do so. - Patricia
Bob -- everyone I know thinks that the American auto industry has been producing second-rate products for decades, and most of us been predicting the collapse of the industry for quite a few years. The executive leadership of the industry has been completely unresponsive to real-world feedback, and has been coasting along on the past and rapidly dwindling accomplishments of its predecessors. Without entirely new leadership, there is no conceivable way that this industry can get back on a competitive footing. You can't bring new leadership into power with a wave of the government wand. Ain't gonna happen. These processes are spontaneous and organic, not programmatic. Good money after bad. This era is over. - Sean McBride
Sean, I don't disagree with you. I don't advocate just handing out money here. I think any money that is provided should come with strings. I think we also need to realize that the best sounding idea may not work. The solution may entail a combination things (e.g. bankruptcy, bailout, sale, breaking up the companies). It may require that we scrap our original idea and try a new one. I hate to gloomy about this but doing nothing is just not an option. This problem is world wide now. - Paul
I'm still surprised no one is at least bringing up the idea Tom Evslin had on his blog about actually replacing the government's vehicle fleet. http://blog.tomevslin.com/2008... I guess there must be some fatal flaw to the idea, I'm just not seeing it right now. - mikepk
Instead of a bailout, it's actually *buying* something, and forcing the big three to re-tool and redesign based on mandate. Seems like a win-win. - mikepk
Sean - I agree with everything you said, up to the point that new leadership can't be forced on the company. I have a sneaking suspicion there are some really good, bright people at GM who could do it but have been held back by the existing top crust of old guard. I think as part of a bailout/restructuring, the government could require that existing leadership step down. They've all been overcompensated for years anyway. I keep coming back to splitting up GM in my mind because it would make new, more nimble companies with more incentive to do what we agree needs to happen: make good products that people can afford to buy and drive with an eye towards the future. - Bob M. Montgomery
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Can you imagine if the government demanded that Yahoo or Microsoft or Google "re-tool" and "redesign"? What would that even mean? Would they have the slightest idea of what they were talking about? - Sean McBride
There is one other point here, that is on the macro level: DEFLATION! The collapse of the auto industry in this country will have a ripple effect in commodity prices. Central Banks around the world are in dire fear of asset prices collapsing, which will lead to other industries going under. It is one of the causes of the Great Depression. - Paul
Sean - 99% of the time, I would be right with you. I have little confidence in the government, in general, having actually worked on Capital Hill for a while. I think, though, in this circumstance that it's necessary. And, there are people in the Federal government who are former industry people, as well as those who work on the emissions standards and Federal guidelines who probably know more about the auto industry than GM's entire management team. - Bob M. Montgomery
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@Sean - it happened with Ma Bell, and nearly (maybe not-so-nearly) happened with Microsoft (both for different reasons of course) - Steve
This is precisely what Chapter 11 was written for. - Vikrum J. Singh
Bob -- I respect your arguments, and they have some merit. This is an issue with uncertain outcomes no matter which path we pursue. But I am going to lobby very hard against any aid for the auto industry because on the deepest gut level I think that this industry is beyond saving. - Sean McBride
Sean - Agreed. I'm not 100% sold on bailing out a sinking ship either. It's the alternative that scares the dickens out of me. If we weren't in the current self-created fiscal disaster and there was money out there to loan, I'd be with you. Let GM fail, and allow the vacuum to be filled with other automakers, including new ones. Unfortunately, there's no capital out there for new companies to start up, nor is there $ for other companies to jump in. It's a tough place; uncertain outcome for sure. - Bob M. Montgomery
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Sean, they already do! Through tax policy and regulation. The auto industry already has to meet fuel efficiency requirements, environmental requirements and safety requirements. - Paul
Bob -- let me hasten to add that I am as scared as you are about the direction of the American and global economy, and what the collapse of the American auto industry portends. We are looking at a major disaster here. I just don't think spending government money on an industry which destroyed itself is going to avert the disaster. - Sean McBride
What if, and this is just throwing spagetti on the wall, but GM were forced into a restructuring that included breaking it up into it's compenent divisions, then, based on solvency and saleability, allow individual divisions to file Chapter 11 as new companies? The idea is that the individual segments wouldn't have the same impact in Chapter 11, lenders would be more inclined to loan/invest. An idea only. - Bob M. Montgomery
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Bob - a creative and interesting idea -- one which deserves thinking about. The objective (as I see it): to try to set free creative forces within the industry that are currently bottled up. Shake it up and shake off the bad management that caused the current mess. - Sean McBride
Well, folks, it seems we've solved it :-D Seriously, though, maybe we've hit on a possible solution in this fascinating thread, except I genuinely don't know the mechanics of Chapter 11 enough to posit whether this would work. I also don't know the mechanics of breaking up a conglomerate like GM, but it happened with Ma Bell, so it's definitely possible. I, for one, would love to see the return of 15 auto companies competing for our business. - Bob M. Montgomery
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It's not anything -- it's a question. - Dave Winer
I am not going to claim to know a damn thing about economics, but wouldn't that just be the free market at work? - Ryan
And you're naive if you think a Chinese company, having paid $0 for GM, would operate it the same way Daimler operated Chrysler. They wouldn't need to preserve shareholder value, or in any way maintain the footprint of GM, having paid nothing for it. - Dave Winer
The average UAW worker earns $75k (not counting benefits) and has a high school diploma. Not competitive is an understatement. - Carter Rabasa
It's not a matter of "letting them fail." There's a system in place for businesses to restructure and retool while remaining in business: it's called bankruptcy, and while it would affect workers, it would also hurt GM creditors, shareholders, and executives, who are looking to not get hurt if GM fails. This is not my idea: it's Robert Reich's. He wants to protect American taxpayers, not GM executives. I agree with him. - steplow = Steve Lowe
We may be returning to the late 80s when people were mad about Japanese businessmen were buying everything in Manhattan, like Rockefeller Center properties. I bet these same people were complaining back then. Maybe now they have become nihilists. - Rolf Schewe
Dave, what most of the "just let them fail crowd" don't understand is that this is an opportunity. Any bailout should be accompanied with the following requirements. That the automobiles manufactured must be greener, more fuel efficient, and utilize alternative energy. It also falls into the category of a capital works project. We need to keep people working if the economy is to recover. - Paul
