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Jeff Jones › Likes
This is why console gamers can go SAF: you're ruining real PC games. Before you console juggalos came along, we never had to 'unlock' new areas or earn 'achievements'. Now PC games are bottlenecked by your console's weak hardware specs and game control is dumbed down to suit your limited, knobby, little controllers.
tinypants - Hagitha of FF, Chris, Taskerrific Guy, Steven Perez and 24 other people liked this
What's worse is that game play ITSELF is dumbed down to meet the YouTube audience that tends to buy consoles for gaming over PCs.
- Akiva Moskovitz
So
- Amber, Random Time Lord
Can't afford to PC game.
- Amber, Random Time Lord
Another complaint: console gamers don't care about immersion so console games don't bother which is why console UIs are always so 'game-y'. Dragon Age is really fun but the UI might as well be the front panel of a microwave for how evocative and related it is to the setting of the game itself.
- Akiva Moskovitz
@Amber, you can pretty much just drop a $150 nvidia or ATI card in any PC with a PCI-express slot and enough RAM, done deal. cheaper than a console since you already have the PC - and if you don't mind lower resolutions or visual quality you could go down to $75 instead
- mjc
WASD going on here?
- Josh Haley
Preach it, Akiva. I hate console gaming.
- Jason Huebel
from Android
Don't already have the PC to do that. Haven't you heard my crappy computer rants already? It was just cheaper to get a hold of the console.
- Amber, Random Time Lord
Hahahaha...This rant is so funny. Microsoft comes up with one of the best ideas in gaming in a long time (unified achievements) and you pooh pooh it? Hilarious...Why not diss the steering wheel while you are at it. PC vs console gaming is a no-brainer for me...can't do PC gaming on my 55" TV.
- Alex Scoble
I think the controls are fine. You can use mouse-only or a combo of keyboard/mouse. The interface is MMORPG-like so blame WoW for that. Some games on PC's aren't as immersive due to the controls. There's no equivalent controls on the PC to moving the sticks to change the pace of running/walking/sneaking.
- Rodfather
I would have to disagree. I hate PC gaming, I just can't use the controls on a keyboard. I'm an old Nintendo-Atari-Sega guy. Last game I played on a PC was a DOS game called Prince of Persia. It just isn't the same without my Playstation 3 and my 47 inch HD television.
- Faraz Mullick
Alex, why can't you do PC gaming on your 55" TV? My ancient 42" Sceptre 1080P TV accepts VGA... been gaming on it for 4 years now. I prefer my 22" IPN panel Del monitor to it though.
- Adrian
Home theater PCs are either expensive or underpowered...You can't put a regular PC in a home theater...they are way too loud. And personally, I find console gaming to be much more seemless, and way more immersive...oh and Xbox 360 Achievements are awesomesauce. In short, I completely disagree with Akiva.
- Alex Scoble
I loved gaming on a PC (keyboard + mouse FTW) but I could never justify the costs keeping up with the hardware. I feel like I get my money's worth out of my PS3 (and Xbox 1) before that.
- Matt Mastracci
Sorry, but I hate PC gaming. Dealing with the keyboard and mouse just blows for me. Love my 360
- Holden Page
from iPod
I do agree somewhat console gaming ruining PC gaming. The interface for Fallout 3 PC was basically the same as the console. Such a pain.
- Rodfather
LOL, I still use the all-aluminum Lian Li case I've had for 6 years or so. I've managed to stuff a Core i7 into it. It's fairly quiet but the aluminum cases are not as quiet as a dedicated HTPC case. Frankly doesn't bother me. Mouse / keyboard is still the control paradigm to beat (except in racing / flying / platform games of course).
- Adrian
Consoles should natively support keyboard/mouse gaming for every game. If you can't beat that with a controller, buy a keyboard and mouse. ;)
- Matt Mastracci
I agree with Matt, I can't justify regular hardware upgrades any more. Not to mention having to deal with windows, which i hate. It wasn't that long ago that was on the console-bashing bandwagon, but the games and consoles have come a LONG way.
- dthree
Mass Effect would have been a much better game had it been designed ground up for the PC.
- Adrian
I've never really been a fan of BioWare RPG's. I still think the best were PC RPG's with an isometric view. Fallout 1&2 for example. Dragon Age seems ok so far.
- Rodfather
*fistbump Akiva* You tell 'em mate
- Mo Kargas
I play both console games and PC games, though I'm not really a big gamer. I don't really feel like game play is dumbed down or like I'm an idiot for playing console games, but whatever. I'm really commenting to say that I play PC games on my television all the time. In fact, my PC is broken so everything I do on a PC I do on the 'family' one hooked up to the television. We have an I7...
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- joey
It bothers me that media PCs or consoles are in the living room. I would have thought we'd all be using rack-mounted hardware in media closets by now. :( It sucks to have piles of boxes hooked up to a TV with spaghetti wires all over the place. Clearly some companies are missing opportunities. Console controls should work equally well with PCs, and they should all be RF.
- Cristo
Cristo, you're welcome to come set up a media closet for me :)
- joey
joey, I would do it. Unfortunately it's still really, really hard. I'm still trying to figure it all out.
- Cristo
To this day can't play any sort of first person shooter on the consoles. The controls are just no match compared to keyboard / mouse combo that I've had years upon years of experience on. That's sadly all I can contribute to this discussion.
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
Oh, PC gaming. How I remember the love that I felt for you when realising that even though I was well above "minimum spec", the new game still ran like a turd in treacle. The discovery that I would need to update pretty much everything in order to just support the graphics card and RAM upgrades just made things even sweeter. And -oh!- all those commands to remember! Thank $DEITY I have...
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- Andy Bold
Alex, your argument is voided by your use of the word 'awesomesauce'.
- Akiva Moskovitz
from BuddyFeed
I don't hate consoles, but they hold nothing to the graphics of a PC. ;)
- Spencer
Also, I've yet to see any proper refutation of my points. The fact that not one of you has refuted being called a juggalo is seriously concerning.
- Akiva Moskovitz
from BuddyFeed
i cant afford buying the best of the best when it comes to pcs. sure, the console systems are not as flashy but i still enjoy them for what they are, mind you, i have a soft spot for old SNES games, so...... mind you i play WoW . those kinda games are hard to replicate on a console machine. BUT. WoW doesnt require HUUUGEE processing power to play. i think that's the trick with pc games. make more games that don't require lots of hardware to enjoy. remember the good ol fun days of the lucasarts adventures??
- Terry O'Fee
Hey, did you guys have fun modding Fallout 3? Oh, wait, you can't! You're on a console. Oops, sorry!
- Akiva Moskovitz
from BuddyFeed
and?? :P
- Terry O'Fee
mind u, im not much of a fan of these ipod touch/iphone versions of games coming out these days. playing doom with a touchscreen just looks silly :P
- Terry O'Fee
I game to enjoy myself. PC gaming is a chore - you have to build a PC, maintain it, patch it, defrag it, buy new hardware for it, run anti-malware on it, etc. Consoles are simple: put a disc in, and enjoy playing a game. I don't want to mod, I don't want to brag about headshots, I certainly don't want to play online with a bunch of assholes. I just want to play a game. Consoles are WAY better at this simplified experience.
- Sparky Crocker
I don't know what SAF means.
- Glen Campbell
from iPod
Glen, suck a f&^$.
- Rochelle
How did this not pull on my Favorite's best of day. This is like best of millenium
- Matthew DeVries
This post has a lot of acronyms.
- Rochelle
Sparky, are you still living in 1999? I don't have to maintain a PC, patch it, defrag it, or run anti-malware on it. I just boot up, slip the disc in, and go. It's zero maintenance, zero fuss. Perhaps this could be because it's a MacPro and I do nothing on the PC side except play games but even when before I bought the MacPro, I haven't had a need to perform serious maintenance or even...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
The absence of Madden on the PC is what finally pushed me over the edge to pick up an Xbox. It sorta seems to me like PC and console are *almost* complementary: I can't for the life of me play an FPS with a controller, but there are all kinds of "family"/kids games I've never think of buying on a PC, and live head-to-head sports on the big screen TV just isn't very PC friendly. I'll take both, thanks. :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I'll respectfully disagree; I don't miss the "buy a new game/upgrade your hardware" cycle -since purchasing my Xbox360, I haven't had to purchase and install the latest, greatest video card, or add more memory to my console in order to enjoy the latest, greatest games. Personally, I think Achievements are a nice way to mark and track progress through a game, and I admit, I've become addicted to hearing the "Achievement Unlocked" sound as I'm playing through a game.
- Andrew Terry
Achievements are the Satan of video gaming. It made me quit WoW. I couldn't walk anywhere or open any door without fucking alarms and popups and crazy shit "YOU HAVE OPENED YOUR 5,406 DOOR?!
- Matthew DeVries
Akiva - you just made a point by stating that you use a Mac Pro for gaming. That's a $3000 machine vs. a $200 Xbox 360. It's a machine you have to deal with, install, run updates on, etc.
- Sparky Crocker
You all know this topic is a religious war, no one wins, and you leave scorched earth in your wake? Just checkin'.
- Ed Millard
I'm a life long PC gamer, and I love them but they are pretty flawed. The constant push for more gear is certainly a flaw, also leads to rich gamer advantage. The push for stunning visuals is bad too and seems to afflict all platforms. They end up shorting game play, and driving up game costs. I still love and play ugly Battlefield2 but the cheats you have on PC's seriously damage it. I have a PS3 IBM gave me with Madden 2010 but I just don't like. Football is not a game designed for computers.
- Ed Millard
I could almost see playing football on a computer if you had 22 people playing. It would probably be chaos in practice though. If you actually had a team of 11 people who practiced and worked together and played competitively against other teams like that it might be really interesting.
- Ed Millard
I play with consoles these days mostly, but I have nothing against PC gaming when the hardware is up to date. I wouldn't blame the consoles for dumbing down the games. I guess the reason is money: console games aren't pirated as much so releasing/optimizing for them first makes sense business-wise. About achievements: if they are reasonable, they encourage me to play more. For example, they motivated me to play more Fallout 3 than I otherwise would have played.
- Jemm
from fftogo
Sparky, well, I failed to mention the fact that I have a gaming PC here that I built out several years ago that would trounce my MacPro in gaming. Only reason why I use the MacPro for gaming at all is because I want to play on my 24" LED Cinema Display rather than my years-old 22" Samsung LCD. And that old machine required no maintenance at all: again, the days of XP and FAT are gone;...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
Ed, you're right, this is a religious war that no one can win. It's also trollish comment-bait. Occasionally, I like to rile up the natives (and by occasionally, I pretty much mean daily).
- Akiva Moskovitz
Ed, you do make a good point, though: I don't want to sacrifice game quality just for stunning visuals. However, at least on the PC, you have the option for stunning visuals. Because of consoles, the cutting edge of gaming has been seriously dulled. A good example of this tug-of-war is Oblivion which was clearly console-oriented game but also had ground-breaking graphics at the time....
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- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, I figured, LOL. Nothing wrong with that. Religious wars are always entertaining to watch at least up until the crucifixions start, and some people are even in to those.
- Ed Millard
As a proof that it isn't always about pretty graphics, I offer this challenge: as soon as you can play a game like Hearts of Iron III on a console, I'll buy in wholesale. But as long as consoles promote arcade-style play (and I mean arcade in the sense of simple gameplay as well as in the traditional sense of playing to earn prizes/achievements) as well as bottleneck PC gaming, I'll be...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, the fact that you used the word 'juggalo' was my favourite part of the post. How could I refute that? My 'juggalo name' is Cutty the Clown, by the way.
- joey
joey, hm, I wonder what my juggalo name would be.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Stunning visuals are expensive to develop. They are great for the immersion, but me I like games for strategy, tactics and competition. The visuals don't add anything to that. Seems to me like too many companies are marketing games just based on "stunning visuals" because they've run out of ideas for the actual game, and too many players fall for it.
- Ed Millard
Akiva, not sure consoles are exactly crippling PC gaming. As others have suggested the PC's openness is its own worst enemy. Not sure "piracy" is entirely it but it is certainly rampant and is punishing developers. For multiplayer games the cheating you have on PC's is really killing them, it sure hammers BF2 and Call of Duty. Not sure how rampant it is on consoles but I assume its either a lot less to non existent.
- Ed Millard
Okay, let me make this easy for all of you: if you agree with me, you're right; if you disagree with me, you're wrong Wrong WRONG!@@@@@@@@@@@@!@#!!!
- Akiva Moskovitz
I'm willing to let Akiva have his Alex Scoble moment.. just because
- Rodfather
Every once in awhile, the hero should enjoy the exploits of his sidekick.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Tell 'em, Akiva! Fuck yeah PC gaming!
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Back to the very first response from Amber, I'm not stupid, I just can't afford to get a PC that can handle full-blown games yet. Maybe I'll reach that level when I replace my circa 2003 HP Pavilion that barely works. And sort of like what joey said, I'm not a very serious gamer, anyway, and I don't think I'm an idiot for using a console. Perhaps some people are, but I'm not. All I have...
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- Kamilah Gill
OK, I think Akiva just had the Nero, "Crucify all the console gamers" moment....
- Ed Millard
Kamilah: Here I am with a system from 2003, with a crappy video card, 1GB RAM, and a single-core P4. And yet I can play lots of great, full games on it. Cost is an excuse.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Chris, my computer has just gotten hopelessly full of stuff that slows it down. I defrag it, run virus detectors, etc. and it just acts really stupid all the time. I might get it to function well enough if I go through and painstakingly clean out everything in it, but I don't think it's worth the effort. I just need to start over with a clean slate.
- Kamilah Gill
Not willing to go for a reformat and reinstall, eh?
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Console FTW because (1) I refuse to run Windows and (2) I refuse to upgrade my PC every 6-12 months. That said, game developers need to realize that we can plug in a keyboard and mouse on our console - at least I can plug one in the PS3, don't know about the Xbox - make that a controller option already and and get rid of dumbed down interfaces!!!
- Haris bin Ali
Yeah, you can plug one in on a 360 as well... There's a folding panel on the right-hand side, similar to the cart slots on old consoles, with some USB ports inside.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Ok, first of all cutting-edge PC gaming is a hobby, not a thing for the casual gamer. Most gamers build their own rigs. That's part of the hobby. If you don't enjoy that, then by all means stick with consoles, no problem. Yes the gear is pricey but if you play it right you can updgrade incrementally as needed. Certainly consoles have their place and have brought the 3d gaming experience...
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- Adrian
The last time I seriously gamed on a computer, it was on a Commodore 64. If WoW was on a console, I'd totally switch over.
- Victor Ganata
Hey, don't knock the C=64. There are some games for the C=64 that I still play today through emulation. :-) I still love Tower Toppler and Bubble Bobble.
- Jason Huebel
Jason, there's a C64 emulator for Android. ;D
- Adrian
The Commodore 64 isn't a console. But it does remind me: I need to find a Commodore 64, a 1571, and a 1581. I still have nearly all of my discs from back in the day. Same with my Apple ][e and Amiga collections (I do have an Amiga 500 upstairs).
- Akiva Moskovitz
I still play Phantasie and a few other C64 RPGs.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Akiva: There are pretty decent, annual shows in Toronto and Chicago for Commodore fans. Toronto's is next month, at that.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Toronto's a far distance from me. Ebay's a lot closer.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I still have all my C64 and Amiga disks too. I hope they still work.
- Rodfather
@Adrian Shouldn't the focus be on the games themselves rather than the hardware/OS they run on? Console gaming lets me do that. PC gaming does not.
- Haris bin Ali
AMIGAS SUCK!!
- Internet's Tad
And with that...TAD SIGNS HIS DEATH WARRANT !!
- Mo Kargas
OH YEAH? WELL TAD HAS A SQUEAKY VOICE.
- Akiva Moskovitz
@Haris sorry but that's not the case. The focus has been on simplifying the games with the console tech as the lowest common denominator, so even if you have a higher spec pc the game design itself is limited by the console tech, and not just the graphics.
- Adrian
well the differences between a pc game and a SNES/genesis game compared to a pc game and ps3/360 game are a little different. i go into game places now it's usually a wall one side of ps stuff, a wall of xbox stuff, a section of wii stuff and the pc games waaaay on the back wall.
- Terry O'Fee
Homeless Sims are surprisingly depressing - http://www.boingboing.net/2009...
M F, AJ Kohn, Jeff Jones and 2 other people liked this
From Boing Boing: "Robin Burkinshaw, a British games design student, created a homeless father-daughter pair in The Sims 3, "moved them in to a place made to look like an abandoned park, removed all of their remaining money, and then attempted to help them survive without taking any job promotions or easy cash routes." The results are surprising heart-rending: This is Kev and his daughter Alice. They're living on a couple of park benches, surviving on free meals from work and school, and the occasional bucket of ice cream stolen from a neighbour's fridge."
- Mark Trapp
from Bookmarklet
I’m profoundly sad and I’m furious and I think the American people need to understand that we have a fascist movement in this country. We don’t have to invade Iraq to find terrorists. They’re right here killing abortion doctors. Every doctor that does abortions has been under an assassination threat for decades. The anti-abortion movement message... - http://nbr.tumblr.com/post...
Jeff Jones, Jimminy and Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF liked this
My GAY MOM deserved the RIGHT to publicly recognize her relationship through MARRIAGE.
Laura H., Bill Bittner, Kamilah Gill and 25 other people liked this
Hell yes!
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Since she can't stand with me tonight, I will stand for her and ask the world to end hate and bigotry.
- Kenley Neufeld
Awwww. I <3 your gay mom.
- B. Hatin
HELL YES. 1UP Kenley!!
- Derrick
Your gay mom, your black mom, your hispanic mom, your muslim mom, your jewish mom, your widowed mom, your divorced mom, your chineese mom, your handicaped mom, and all the mom's through our short but shameful history as a nation where we've continually taken way to long to observe basic human equality deserve the right to happiness via marriage.
- Steve C
Wow. Steve, that was kind of beautiful and touching.
- B. Hatin
Thanks Baroness I would also like to think of it as common sense but I guess I'm wrong. :(
- Steve C
I don't think common sense has come into play yet.
- Kenley Neufeld
National Day of Reason - http://www.nationaldayofreason.org/
William Harryman, Tyson Key, Michael R. Bernstein and 11 other people liked this
Sadly, I don't hold much hope for today...
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
In other words, I should take my thought process to the logical extremes?
- Anika
"Many who value the separation of religion and government have sought an appropriate response to the federally-supported National Day of Prayer, an annual abuse of the constitution... There is great potential this year to give voice to our shared concerns about the serious threats to the wall separating religion and government."
- LogEx
LE, not that I don't agree with you, but just to debate this rationally. What about the National Day of Prayer is the government establishing a state religion?
- Ladybug Heather
I will grant that the NDP task force goes way-the-f*ck overboard, however.
- Ladybug Heather
Yeah, the co-option is the worst part, but I'm one of those strict (thick brick wall) separation types. I'll fight to the death for the rights of people to believe what they want (as long as it doesn't harm, etc.), but the government has no place meddling in belief.
- LogEx
I just ate a mango
- Josh Haley
That seems reasonable, Josh.
- LogEx
Why are UAW contracts less important than AIG contracts? - http://www.dailykos.com/storyon...
Jeff Jones liked this
"Back in December when it was the Big 3 automakers instead of Wall Street criminals financial institutions, one of the big sticking points on a proposed bailout was the requirement that the UAW contracts be revised so that the autoworkers (who earn an incredibly small amount as compared to many of the financial institution employees – especially those who are receiving insane bonuses for driving the respective companies into the ground) would have to give up more and earn less:"
- Vox
from Bookmarklet
Homes Of The Billionaires - Forbes.com - http://www.forbes.com/2009...
Vishy, Steven Perez, Russellreno and 10 other people liked this
"In today's tough economic climate, Warren Buffett is setting a good example. The world's second richest man lives in the same five-bedroom, gray stucco house he bought in 1958 for $31,500. That's right. Legendary investor Buffett, 78, still calls his humble digs in Omaha, Neb.'s Happy Hollow suburb home, despite a $37 billion fortune. That famous folksiness is, of course, in keeping with his investment philosophy. "If you don't feel comfortable owning something for 10 years," he once told a reporter, "then don't own it for 10 minutes.""
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
Forbes - The National Enquirer of financial reporting. Why do they feel the need to report this kind of stuff. I realise it sells but would you want someone posting speculation about your net worth & your address on the internet?
- Steven Cains
Those who live lavishly are usually not the same as those who save lavishly.
- TranceMist
FiveThirtyEight.com: Politics Done Right: George F. Will Takes on Science, Loses Credibility - http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009...
Jeff Jones and Alex Scoble liked this
"And yet, according to George F. Will, many scientists were convinced in the 1970s that global cooling was a significant threat to the planet. And if those scientists were so wrong before, why should we trust them when they say that global warming is a threat now? There's just one little problem with this story, which reappears every so often in conservative discourse on the environment. Specifically, it's a crock of shit."
- Steven Perez
from Bookmarklet
Krugman: "It’s hard to exaggerate how much economic trouble we’re in." http://www.nytimes.com/2009...
Brian Appleby, Dan Morrill AKA Techwag, Jeff Jones and 10 other people liked this
And still nobody is talking about the real reason. The biggest Ponzi scheme in history is finally unraveling. No, not Madoff. It's Fractional Reserve Banking. It had to collapse on itself eventually. Well, today's the day. It's the end of the world as we've known it. Governments, economies, the banking system, and money will have be remade from scratch. It's a hell of thing.
- Gregg H.
@Gregg: I highly doubt it. We've survived multiple recessions with the fractional reserve system before. That money has a multiplier effect in the system doesn't mean equate to economic downturns. What brought us here was a combination of a fixation on short term returns, a dependence on leverage, and the belief that this time (unlike all the other times) bankers had finally gotten a...
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- David Wynn
from fftogo
This isn't a recession. This isn't the start of a depression. This is the beginning of the collapse of the global monetary system.
- Gregg H.
Betting on the collapse of the global monetary system.
- Sean McBride
The beginning of the collapse of the global monetary system you say? Mind if I short that position?
- David Wynn
from NoiseRiver
Be my guest. From the standpoint of my own self-interest, I hope my predictive powers are failing.
- Sean McBride
400 richest Americans' incomes doubled under Bush - http://rawstory.com/news...
Bill Romanos, ~C4Chaos, Todd Hoff and 6 other people liked this
"“The conservative approach of putting big corporations and the very wealthy ahead of the middle class has failed to create prosperity that can be shared by all Americans,"
- Todd Hoff
Is anyone surprised?
- Amit Morson
And the taxes they paid tripled. Everyone is suprised by that...
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Heh.
- Ladybug Heather
The article says their income doubled and their income tax rate fell by a third. That would make the total income tax increase by 4/3, not by 3. What tax tripled?
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
The actual dollars. While the rate paid was cut, many deductions were either cut or eliminated. The top 400 people actually account for 1.7% of federal income tax paid.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
How many of these 400 richest Americans created and produced useful goods and services in 2008, I wonder.
- Sean McBride
Mark, this article has a link to the Bloomberg article, which in turn has a link to the IRS document, where it shows the percentage of itemized deductions rising from 2000 to 2006 (p. 7). If you have another source that says the IRS is wrong, please cite it.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
They are paying more taxes because they are being rewarded for buying and selling investment class assets like stocks, bonds, and real-estate. And of course the market was going up. They were just trading. They weren't adding to the economy. They just moved paper around. By contrast people who did real work and who produced real goods paid a top rate of 35% and were not in markets that could be so easily manipulated to rise. With an AGI of $105 Billion these people are paying a paultry rate.
- Todd Hoff
When Eisenhower was president the top tax rates were in the 90% plus range. When asked about high taxes, Ike said the rich paid for the free market, the open society and the unlimited possibilties of American society. They could move elsewhere if they didn't like the sweet deal they got in America. Sadly, that kind of Republican is long gone.
- Phil Boiarski
We need a Teddy Roosevelt to clean up the mess created by (sometimes parasitic) oligarchs and financial manipulators who couldn't care less about a free marketplace and an even playing field. And I am coming from a basically libertarian perspective on this issue.
- Sean McBride
There are no Teddy Roosevelts left. McCain wanted to be Teddy sometimes but he couldn't live without support from that Old Time Religion.
- Phil Boiarski
Phil -- exactly; religious fundamentalists undermined his progressive intentions. They are useful tools of the very oligarchs who created these problems. McCain couldn't get his head straight on these issues.
- Sean McBride
Speaking as a libertarian, I've noticed that nothing is more corrupt and dysfunctional than a society in which too much wealth and power has accumulated in too few hands, and especially in hands which are contributing nothing of creative or productive value. Nothing could be more anti-meritocratic and self-destructive. The tendency always in such societies is for a small club of...
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- Sean McBride
Drinking a glass of Goats do Roam (not côte-du-rhône!) and waiting
Adam Turetzky, James D Kirk, Jeff Jones and 4 other people liked this
Only a glass ;)?
- Fee501st
I thoroughly enjoyed a wine and cheese tasting at their estate winery. http://fairviewtower.wordpress.com/about... ... I especially enjoyed their various styles of goat cheese.. ..the visit here was one of the many good highlights of my trip to South Africa...
- David HC Soul
LOVE Goats Do Roam!
- Lisa L. Seifert
hmmm never had this wine
- Susan Beebe
I've had both Cotes and Goats! And the goats is actually pretty good.
- James D Kirk
I've had that! South African wine right?
- Adam Turetzky
Adam, yes! It was good, I liked it a lot. Hope they sell it somewhere in SF!
- Veronica
Try Beverages & More in SF - http://www.bevmo.com
- Michael Listberger
I got it at Safeway in Potrero Hill... in SF. Grocery store wine in the Bay Area = AWESOME!
- Lisa L. Seifert
Lisa, I know! We could only buy beer at Stop & Shop back in CT, and then not on Sundays. Buying wine and liquor at grocery stores in Cali is very convenient!
- Veronica
I passed on the wine tonight and went straight for home shaken lemon drops... choice of wine in CA is great though!
- John
I remember drinking some of this about 8 years ago when I was at University, we bought it purely because of the name, and it had a little bit on the back with an address to write off to, to find out the full story of the Goats. We did, and we got back a nice letter from them. The name stuck in my head, but I haven't actually had any since.
- Benjamin Watt
Did our cosmos exist before the big bang? - 10 December 2008 - New Scientist - http://www.newscientist.com/article...
tom matrullo, triple t, Czar and 6 other people liked this
"The loop quantum cosmology (LQC) theory is poised to make testable predictions. If they are verified, the big bang will give way to a big bounce and we will finally know the quantum structure of space-time. Instead of a universe that emerged from a point of infinite density, we will have one that recycles, possibly through an eternal series of expansions and contractions, with no beginning and no end. (Source: http://www.newscientist.com/article...)"
- Sean McBride
from Bookmarklet
This particular model of the universe has been advocated by quite a few mystics for millennia. (And that is why Gregory Lent is right when he gives mysticism an honored seat at the table of human understanding and learning along with science.)
- Sean McBride
What? You mean science changes their positions based on available evidence? Say it ain't so. Yep.... those Yogis are much more consistent I'm sure.
- Jeff Jones
Gregory - what do the yogis say about dark matter? do they believe it fluctuates? Do they believe it is connected to our consciousness? btw, NASA is streaming a media briefing on findings about dark energy on Dec. 16, http://www.nasa.gov/news... altho they may not address these specific questions.
- Maryam
A world view not grounded on a scientific method can easily map itself to new findings. A brane universe, a heat death universe, an inflationary universe, a steady state universe etc can all be made to work with a facile enough mind.
- Todd Hoff
This may make me even less popular around here but here it is: I don't give a shit about free open source software. I don't get my rocks off by 'sticking it to the man' by using a free alternative. Free doesn't always mean better and, to me, software choice isn't a socio-political gesture.
''a_a@FF'', Jordi Soler, Vinay | विनय and 27 other people liked this
Give me OS X and Vista over Linux. I'll gladly take Microsoft Office over OpenOffice. Photoshop rather than the GIMP. And I had no problem paying for Opera (before it went free) rather than using Firefox. I forked over money for Mulberry rather than use Thunderbird, too.
- Akiva Moskovitz
amen Akiva. open-source has its own special brand of holier-than-thou zealot to go with it. there are a few apps that have done well in the open source world, like Subversion, Synergy, Audacity... but there's a ton of crap too
- Nathan Chase
I am all for the development of FOSS, don't get me wrong. I'm just not on board with using FOSS just because it's FOSS. I'd rather pay for higher quality than to suffer through bugs and crashes as part of some statement. To misquote Fight Club: you are not the software that you use.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Word...
- Johnny Worthington
shoot, who cares what the cost is, $0 to whatever, as long as it works for you...
- Live4Emma (L4S)
I think both have their place
- Lindsey is Fierce!
The reason I like FOSS is because you or anyone can make changes faster in a piece of software then closed software. Make the software work for you for your needs.
- Mark Layton
I use both and agree with Lindsey. Freeware has been around forever and some of it is very good. I enjoy testing all kinds of software from major players to one person shops.
- Charlie Anzman
As a programmer I'm naturally drawn towards things I can actually look at and tinker with, even though I don't exercise the privilege that often. I can understand why non-hackers would choose otherwise, but I actually much prefer most of the free software I use to their competition. I do take some umbrage to the accusation that I'm using it just to be a rebel though, but nothing serious. =) (besides, all software is technically available for free if you care little enough for legalization)
- Daniel Bruce
For too long we have been bombarded with advertising that tells us the most important product feature is a low price. I have never bought into that. I always buy Heinz ketchup instead of the store brand, for instance, because it tastes better.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Akiva, the only thing that could make you less popular in my books is if you told me you weren't really a goat in a suit...
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
A tiny sheep in diapers.
- Akiva Moskovitz
But this is not alwyas the case. I have run into open source software that I would rather use even if the $1500 model from commercial software developers were free.
- Stephan Miller
from Alert Thingy
I use a mixture here. I'll agree that open source isn't the b all and end all, but I also do NOT like to be tied to some proprietary solution either. I want to be able to mix and match. For example, I use XP, Vista & Linux here. I don't like/use MS Office for a number of reasons. Two expensive, too slow, and OpenOffice reads more formats, and most importantly does the job I need. Other the other hand give me Photoshop over GIMP anyday. It's all about usability and integration for me.
- Ian May
You go on with your bad self, Akiva!
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
Since you have money, Paypal me 10,000 bucks. Thanks buddy
- Outsanity & Kate + Hate
That's the point, Stephen. If the product does what you want it to do, and does it better than other products, price, or lack there of, ceases to be relevant.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Open source keeps Closed source on its feet. Open source is like art, a form of expression by programmers.
- vijay
Yep and I was probably ranting a bit too hard at the start of this. For me, I don't choose software based on whether it's FOSS or not. I choose the software that best does the job with an interface that best suits me. If it's closed-source, then that's fine. If it's open-source, that's fine, too.
- Akiva Moskovitz
vijay, I disagree. The marketing of software has nothing to do with the artfulness of those who programmed it.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I do look for value for money, but that doesn't mean cheapest is best of course. Nor does it mean that paying more money (or any money at all) gives better quality. I take little notice of advertising claims and hype anyway. I like to review and research (within reason) almost any new product I am buying - from ketchup to a new HD TV.
- Ian May
Why suffer with freeware when you can pirate real software? (I'm seriously kidding)
- Lindsey is Fierce!
The problem is even when you pay for programs, they tend to have issues too. Everything is not "fail-safe".
- Outsanity & Kate + Hate
True in a sense. There's a lot of FOSS that is not marketed in any way though. I have friends who just do their thing just cause they like it, not to make money. Bottomline is that open source keeps closed source on its feet 'cause there's the democratic thing. Let me give an example here: Linux is leading the industry in head tracking work. There's a build already out there that moves windows on a 2d plane based on how you move your head around in front of the monitor. There's no closed source company that
- vijay
@Lindsey LOL
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
is even close to that level. But the good thing here is that the community shows the way forward for closed source companies by demoing what they wanna see in their comps. So FOSS is generally not for end user consumption like you already have said. But it has a very important place in giving us some control over Closed source software. Anyway, screw the zealots, everything in this planet has a bunch of them, do your thing, that's all.
- vijay
I only use pirated commercial software. That way I get the most expensive product for free and that's really what the game of life is all about...right?
- Kenton
Joking, by the way...
- Kenton
Very well put, vijay.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Be careful conflating free (as in beer) and free (as in speech), to use the old FOSS talking point. I agree there's too much zealotry out there, but I can appreciate the ideological / educational / sociological reasons for free.
- mikepk
If it's free and it works, perfect (I use Gmail, Gcalendar and Gdocs and to me it's enough: I don't need sophisticated Excel or Access anymore). If it's expensive and it works better... then I download it from the Pirate Bay. Hey, we live in a "free" world anyway!
- Jordi Soler
The trap was set and less than 24 hours later, the Odessa narcotics unit raided the house only to find KopBuster’s attorney waiting under a system of complex gadgetry and spy cameras that streamed online to the KopBuster’s secret mobile office nearby. - http://reason.com/blog...
Amber, Robert Konigsberg, Jonathan and 8 other people liked this
the busted cops were taken to sublevel 5 of the nearby Primatech headquarters...
- Tudor Bosman
Near-Flawless Run Is Credited in Victory [New York Times - 11/5/08] - http://www.nytimes.com/2008...
Rajeshwaran, Thomas Hawk, Jeff Jones and 10 other people liked this
The McCain campaign team often seemed to make missteps and lurch from moment to moment in search of a consistent strategy and message, while the disciplined and nimble Obama team marched through a presidential contest of historic intensity learning to exploit opponents’ weaknesses and making remarkably few stumbles.
- Mitchell Tsai
from Bookmarklet
The two captains of his effort, the disheveled David Axelrod, his close friend and political strategist, and the meticulous David Plouffe, the campaign manager, had never been on a team that had won a presidential nomination, much less a general election.
- Mitchell Tsai
Mr. Obama, Mr. Schmidt continued, “was a once-in-a-generation orator. A good debater. And an eloquent message. He was the beneficiary of favorable media coverage. Ice-cold disciplined about the execution of his campaign message. He was an extremely formidable candidate.”
- Mitchell Tsai
What proved critical to Mr. Obama’s campaign was the “Feb. 5 and Beyond Room” that Mr. Plouffe set up, an operation staffed by aides who focused only on the later primaries and caucuses.
- Mitchell Tsai
“It would be difficult for an African-American to be elected president in this country,” said Cornell Belcher, a pollster who worked for Mr. Obama’s campaign and studies racial voting patterns. “However, it is not difficult for an extraordinary individual who happens to be African-American to be elected president.”
- Mitchell Tsai
Through weeks of focus group testing and polling, Mr. Obama’s advisers came to believe that the single best way to allay those concerns [doubts about Mr. Obama’s background and experience] was to produce commercials in which he spoke directly into the camera.
- Mitchell Tsai
“He had to be an incredibly individuated figure,” said Mr. Belcher, meaning, he said, that Mr. Obama — whose white grandparents appeared in many of his advertisements — should be seen as someone gifted enough to be president and who happened to be black.
- Mitchell Tsai
Mr. Obama’s strategists consider it [opt out of the system and raise money on his own] one of their most important decisions. They had online fund-raising down to a science, and as tens of millions of dollars flowed in to the campaign, they were sent out to support field operations in 50 states and to pay for record amounts of advertising.
- Mitchell Tsai
That unpreparedness [for Sarah Palin] led to a rare, halting moment for Mr. Obama’s campaign. Bill Burton, an Obama spokesman, released a statement the day of her announcement that read, “Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency.” The statement opened the door to an examination of whether Mr. Obama, with less than three years in the Senate, had any more experience.
- Mitchell Tsai
Aides were distraught days later when Mr. Obama told the CNN anchor Anderson Cooper that his experience outstripped hers, lowering him to a back-and-forth over experience with the No. 2 candidate on the Republican ticket. Mr. Obama would not go there again.
- Mitchell Tsai
Mr. Obama’s financial advantage was drowning out most of what Mr. McCain was trying to say. Mr. Obama’s campaign ran four advertisements to every one from Mr. McCain.
- Mitchell Tsai
But Mr. McCain’s spots were beginning to seem increasingly out of sync with the heightened public anxiety surrounding the financial crisis. The meltdown of the financial markets ultimately ended any hope of a comeback for Mr. McCain.
- Mitchell Tsai
As Americans were increasingly worried about their futures, Mr. Obama’s message of help for the middle class and promise of steady leadership was resonating with the white, working-class voters he had been seeking to win over for nearly two years. He managed to cast his rival as out of touch and erratic, and repeatedly linked him with what he portrayed as the devastating policies of the Bush administration.
- Mitchell Tsai
In Mississippi, Stuart Stevens, a longtime political strategist who had worked for both Mr. McCain and Mitt Romney in the primaries, was surveying polling data for a Republican client. He was picking up on an unexpected shift for Mr. Obama, even among white voters. As he put it in an interview: If a house is on fire, the owner does not care what color the fireman is.
- Mitchell Tsai
"He transcended race,” Mr. Stevens said. “At the time of crisis, it became particularly irrelevant."
- Mitchell Tsai
Back in Washington, Mr. Belcher, the pollster, was finding something similar. Mr. Obama was showing strength even among white voters Mr. Belcher had identified as having racial biases. It was a phenomenon captured in a photograph he shared last week of a homemade sign with the Confederate flag. It read: “Rednecks for Obama. Even we’ve had enough.”
- Mitchell Tsai
Thanks Mitchell that was fascinating. Especially liked the following...."extraordinary individual who happens to be African-American"
- Toby Graham
Thanks Toby. I thought it was a great (though very long 6-page) summary. Here's the one-page version http://nytimes.com/2008...
- Mitchell Tsai
If there was a love or super love button, I would have clicked it. Mitchell, that your for sharing this and taking the time to summarize it in the comments.
- Anthony K. Valley ©
Anthony: Mucho gracias for the high praise.
- Mitchell Tsai
This may be taken poorly but I humbly suggest that in the weeks after this election is done that we all try and treat each other with more respect than was often displayed in the weeks leading up to tonight.
Glen Campbell, Ryan Kuder, Carmen and 45 other people liked this
Just sayin'.
- Akiva Moskovitz
/me goes and kicks Akiva in the shin...how's that for respect! ;) I <3 Akiva.
- Alex Scoble
Hugs all around!
- Yolanda
STFU Akiva and finish that dubstep joint. jeez!
- Carlos Ayala
me too with the hugging and the loving and the respecting and the kissing... wait, what?
- Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕
from fftogo
Here, here, Akiva. I throw down the gauntlet by proposing that we make out. You game?
- Derrick
STFU, AKIVA!
- Mona Nomura
Aww, Akiva, you're so cuddley! I mean - hey! He's trying to trick us with peace and love - get him!
- WorldofHiglet
TEE HEE *MAUL*
- Akiva Moskovitz
+1 Mona...humor?
- Hutch Carpenter
Why start now? :)
- Steven Perez
hear. hear..
- Mitchell Tsai
Well said Akiva, let's go back to kitty pictures instead. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Peace should return to FriendFeed. Don't worry, Akiva. I kept many people I disagreed with, as long as no one got ugly about it.
- Kamilah Gill
Well, that didn't last long. http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Glen Campbell
Not long at all: http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Mark Wilson
My plea along these lines: http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Ladybug Heather
I hate people. [charlie brown angst cloud above head]
- Akiva Moskovitz
Amen Akiva
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
{{{{{{{{{{ Akiva }}}}}}}}}}
- Ladybug Heather
Okay, {{{{{{{{{{ Shey }}}}}}}}}} Heck, {{{{{{{{{{ EVERYBODY }}}}}}}}}}
- Ladybug Heather
More Respect. Sure. Just don't argue with me, OK?????? LOL
- Ian May
So many people got ugly about it, that is the problem. It is NOT a red thing, it is NOT a blue thing. It is a stench filled refrigerator that was left full of food when the power went out the first night of your week long vacation in Hawaii thing. The only way you can stop it, is to stop yourself.
- Greer Trice
I agree with @Ladybug Heather in her plea post.
- Greer Trice
I'm tired of being polite about this. If you think having to pay taxes is "spreading the wealth" and "socialist", then you - sir or madam - are a pussy. I pay a fair bit of taxes every year and I'd be completely embarrassed to be caught whining about it the way all these rich fuckers are.
Russellreno, Aron Michalski, Mathew A. Koeneker and 21 other people liked this
It's not the rich people who are complaining though. At least not on friendfeed.
- Alex Scoble
i certainly don't share the same level of enthusiasm for paying taxes and dont forsee ever parting with my hard-earned money without getting a very clear and damned good reason why it is needed in the first place BUT i am getting a little tired with every freaking intersection between the government and the economy being labeled socialism
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
I don't complain about paying taxes. I complain about the inefficient way they are collected and distributed. It's a bit like giving $1 to charity and finding that only 30 cents gets to the intended target. That's my beef with big government, not the paying of tax itself.
- Ian May
Oh, I agree with Marco though... It's like Socialism is the 'evil word of the week' It's quoted by many, although few understand what Socialism actually is.
- Ian May
well put ian
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
When those who whine about paying taxes, rich or poor, can continue the conversation with what programs and services they'd like to cut, I'll listen. It is our collective shame that we've allowed the argument to be framed this way.
- Warner Crocker
There's nothing inefficient about the way they are collected. The IRS is very good at collecting money.
- Alex Scoble
Alex, The IRS might be good at collecting money, but I meant the amount that gets spent on that collection, and the amount that gets wasted deciding how to re-distribute that money afterwards.
- Ian May
My guess is that no talking head I've seen on TV decrying "socialism" makes less than $1M per year. Marco, saying I'm enthusiastic is trying hard to misread me. It's not a joy to pay them but I do understand that's the price of an orderly society.
- Dave Slusher
And how come the main pushback on this is from Colbert, Stewart, Letterman, et al? No one who supported the $750B gift to wall street has any leg to stand on opposing Obama on fake socialism when they support the public purchase of this private equity at $2 on the $1. Straight from the Bush/Cheney/Paulson axis of douchebag.
- Dave Slusher
lol fair enough
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
Warner, I don't feel the slightest bit of shame. I've been pushing back on this every day for the last 3 months. How about all the news organizations (sic) that blindly repeat this credulously as if it wasn't obviously false by inspection?
- Dave Slusher
Paying taxes isn't an issue, but increasing taxes on a few people, or increasing taxes on corporations because "no people will be affected" - that's an issue.
- Ontario Emperor
from fftogo
How about rolling back the 2001 "XMas for the wealthy" tax cuts?
- Dave Slusher
Ian, you can't throw that shit out without numbers. Pop quiz, what is the budget of the IRS and what are the total receipts of the treasury? You seem to think that collection efficiency is low, which is a common meme. Do you know the actual numbers? After a few minutes research, I now do.
- Dave Slusher
[hide]
- Glen Campbell
If you don't like this or anything, just hide it or block me or whatever but keep it to yourself. Leaving the comment is just douchebaggy and unnecessary, dude.
- Dave Slusher
Dave, I agree. The mythmakers unfortunately do too good a job.
- Warner Crocker
@dave to clarify "fair enough" was in ref to your statement on enthusiasm - asking for #'s and a deepr analysis from ian is great and would certainly lead to a more substantive debate but i have to admit the reliance on emotionally loaded descriptive terms like douchebaggery and xmas for the wealthy makes it difficult
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
If people who have the time and wherewithal to blather on FriendFeed don't think they're rich, then they haven't seen much of the world.
- Chuck LeDuc Díaz
Marco, you are asking for more linguistic fairness in my pushback on equating raising taxes on incomes > $250K by 3% with SOCIALISM? The other side of this is not constrained by fairness or sanity. I started by calling these people "pussies." It's a standard ploy that the GOP arguments begin unfair and then they call for fairness, and the Dems go along with it. Fuck that, what comes around goes around.
- Dave Slusher
Chuck, I'm richer than most Americans and way richer than most of the rest of the world. That makes my argument stronger, not weaker. Nice try at a gotcha. Not a match, the board goes back.
- Dave Slusher
No numbers came in overnight, so I'll do it. The budget I found for fiscal year 2007 was $11B for the IRS, receipts of $2.4T. That puts the cost of collecting the money at approximately 0.45% . This isn't the definitive number but gives us an order of magnitude. Is the point that 0.45% is the number of crazy inefficiency?
- Dave Slusher
As a comparison, I took the revenues of my company and the number of people that work in collecting the money, guessed about their salaries and compared. It worked out to about 0.5% .
- Dave Slusher
@dave problem is you aren't talking to "the GOP" you are talking to individual human beings who - I work for GOP candidates - I ran McCain's field operation in Iowa until August of last year - I did not have to commit to "a standard ploy" that from that point forward I would begin my arguments unfairly "and then call for fairness" - the "what goes around comes around" cop out is EXACTLY what has lead to the deterioration of debate - because when someone like me tries very hard to....
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
...rationally discuss a topic someone like you decides that it makes sense to try and hold me or anyone else with values different from yours accountable for things other people have done. get over it man - we are all our own people with our own views and our own ways of doing things
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
Marco - I am talking mostly about the pundit class that we see on TV here, but your point is fair. I remain steadfast that the basic frame is ridiculous, and arguing on its merits just gives the nonsense credence which is why I don't feel unfair in my counter-frame, re "only pussies fuss about 3% of their large salaries." This is the same class that got a tax cut during A WAR!
- Dave Slusher
i appreciate that - i think those are completely valid points of view - i even think it is completely valid to express problems we have with the policies or approaches of corporate bodies like "the gop" - but we must take care to remember that while a generalized approach can accurately be conferred on a corporate group like a political party we cant automatically assume that everyone who identifies with that party will instantly support or exhibit the same approach
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
Ditto Ian May's comments.
- Mathew A. Koeneker
Paying taxes isn't socialist or "spreading the wealth". Taking money from one group of people (productive members of society), and giving it to people who don't is. This is exactly what 0bama wants to do.
- Spencer
Spencer, your definition of "socialism" fits the Wall Street bailout perfectly. That's exactly what McCain/Bush/Cheny/Paulson want to do, take money from the people who work and give it to the rich with no strings.
- Dave Slusher
Spencer I take offense to that. My net taxable income is less than $250K and I'm pretty certain I'm an order of magnitude more productive member of society than a lot of wealthy people. I really don't understand why everyone assumes all of the increased tax revenue is just going to be handed over to deadbeats. Please post a link from a neutral source that clearly describes this. You can't listen to either party's statements standalone.
- Paul Reynolds
The bailout was a mistake, but lets remember 0bama supports it as well. Just yesterday, he said it's a "step in the right direction". It really doesn't matter who the money goes to, taking money from one taxpayer and giving it to another is nonsense. We have an economy in trouble, and we have a nominee who wants to raise taxes on employers, producers, etc. and give it to someone else. That is just crazy.
- Spencer
this where things get muddy though - i absolutely would have preferred that we would have never had to consider the bailout but i do think it was better than the potential outcome of the alternative - regardless of who was at fault etc we have to make decisions of what will provide the best outcome in an imperfect environment
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
Nationalizing businesses == socialism. Paying taxes on wages from capitalist system == capitalism. It's really quite simple, y'all. I'm out for the weekend, let the debate rage without me!
- Dave Slusher
++++ dave well said
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
Well said. Not sure there's much to add beyond this: Privatizing government so that the revenues can then be turned toward political agendas like Prop 8 really completes the greed/power circle.
- Karoli
the initiative process has tremendous potential in theory - unfortunately elected officials in states that has strong initiative processes have used them as an excuse to abdicate their responsibility to make tough decisions by saying "hey - lets let the people decide!"
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
I've put together a voter's what-to-do if your vote gets suppressed at this easy to remember address: http://goodvote.org/
Tommy Williams, Bruce Lewis, Jeff Jones and 3 other people liked this
Callie Shell - Obama - Digital Journalist - http://digitaljournalist.org/issue08...
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Matt Browne, Jason Toney, Helen Hoefele and 92 other people liked this
Great shots from a photo journalist following Obama around for over a year. My favorite is the first one I clipped here of Michelle and Barrack.
- Bret Taylor
from Bookmarklet
"Four years ago Time photographer Callie Shell met Barack Obama backstage when she was covering presidential candidate John Kerry. She sent her editor more photographs of Obama than Kerry. When asked why, she said, "I do not know. I just have a feeling about him. I think he will be important down the road." Her first photo essay on Obama was two and half years ago. She has stuck with him ever since."
- Bret Taylor
Yeah, I'm loving this... still going through them... Nice share!
- Christopher Galtenberg
The captions are really enlightening, too. "I loved that he cleaned up after himself before leaving an ice cream shop in Wapello, Iowa. He didn't have to. The event was over and the press had left. He is used to taking care of things himself and I think this is one of the qualities that makes Obama different from so many other political candidates I've encountered. Nov. 7, 2007." re: http://digitaljournalist.org/issue08...
- Bret Taylor
I liked that one too - so will my wife :)
- Christopher Galtenberg
These are beautiful. I do like the one of he and Michelle but like the one of the two little boys staring up at him even more.
- Carla Thompson
I think the key to getting these kinds of pictures is getting access. Not everyone gets to ride on the campaign bus while candidates are sleeping. By the way, I have the same rule about no pictures after my jaw has dropped. :-)
- Jeff Eddings
You clipped the same photos I did when I posted this a few days ago. All of them are aweome, but these 3 are just outstanding.
- Anika
Even if Obama does not win the election, I wish I get to meet this man once in my life.
- Kamath (नमः)
I'm excited by the idea of a President that is openly affectionate and desiring of his partner.
- Mai
Awesome pictures, thanks for sharing this Bret.
- Nicholas Kreidberg
These are really beautiful candid pics. I really can't contain my excitement with two weeks left. I really feel like this is going to happen; that this man is going to be our next president. And I've never been so excited.
- Derrick
"Oooo,Michelle...Beeehavvvee...showing off those legs are gonna get you two votes in my "Who's worthy enough to ride on my handlebars?" category.
- Terence
I love how photographic this family is... I've seen some great pics this whole campaign.
- Heidi Blanton
The captions on the photographs brought tear to my eyes. Thanks for sharing this Bret
- Shakeel Mahate
@JMS I'm not the type to think that Obama's gonna come in like a magical negro a la Morgan Freeman and make everything better with a sweep of his arm, but given the options, I'm behind him. I don't agree with everything, but I feel like we've got something going with him.
- Derrick
I'm just concerned about the more global issues. With the husband in the Army, I have some serious concerns about what Obama's talking about doing. He's really not the best choice for the military. But then neither is the other option. At least we'll see one more raise before military funding gets cut again.
-
Really powerlful photos.. Weird that I had to keep scrolling to see the good ones..
- Bindu Reddy
Thanks. Great share.
- Roberto Bonini
JMS, you make war sound good. The global issues I was worried about were global warming and the financial crisis. I think everyone's job is on the line these days.
- Scott Loganbill
from twhirl
Wonderful images.
- Steve Lacey
@JMS: I wish your husband well and thank him for his service to the country. I think getting a President who has actually lived outside of the US, understands global politics and aspirations will actually make america, and its troops safer.
- Thaths
@JMS. It's a good point. Hopefully Obama can help bring your husband home safely and quickly. Please thank your husband for me and my family.
- Scott Loganbill
These are amazing. Never under estimate the power of photography to tell a story.
- Tsega Dinka
brought tears to my eyes, I don't really know that much about Obama, these pictures were a nice glimpse into his world.
- amelia arapoff
Beautiful!! These really capture the essence of a great man! wow!! go vote people!!
- Susan Beebe
McCain Attack Ads From Famous Directors - http://ct.buzzfeed.com/rd...
Rodfather and Jeff Jones liked this
Gallup Daily Tracking Poll. Obama 52%, McCain 41%. http://www.gallup.com/poll...
Grant Gochnauer, Jeff Jones and Tommy Williams liked this
[Washington Post]: Barack Obama for President - http://x.techwheat.com/2U7
Valley, Richard Peat, Michael Hart and 5 other people liked this
"Mr. Obama is a man of supple intelligence, with a nuanced grasp of complex issues and evident skill at conciliation and consensus-building. At home, we believe, he would respond to the economic crisis with a healthy respect for markets tempered by justified dismay over rising inequality and an understanding of the need for focused regulation. Abroad, the best evidence suggests that he would seek to maintain U.S. leadership and engagement, continue the fight against terrorists, and wage vigorous diplomacy on behalf of U.S. values and interests. Mr. Obama has the potential to become a great president."
- newsjunk.com
Unusually good writing for a Washington Post editorial. Those are pretty much the main reasons I am supporting Obama over McCain -- that and the fact that I am terrified of the warmongering neoconservatives who control John McCain's brain and who are hell-bent on igniting World War IV with just about everyone.
- Sean McBride
The rest of the world is crossing their fingers and toes that Obama wins. Bush is an embarrassment to this country and every american should be aware of that. I dont feel the average joe plumber grasps the enormity of the damage of what Bush has done to the image of the USA. Its really sad.
- Chris Johnson
License Plate Fail « FAIL Blog: Pictures and Videos of Owned, Pwnd and Fail Moments - http://failblog.org/2008...
Hassan Ibraheem, Pete Delucchi, Jeff Jones and 4 other people liked this
Ha!
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
I don't want someone "just like me" running for president. What I would like even less is someone who's not as smart as me running for president. Not that I've got all that much upstairs, either.
Amber Horner, Nicholas Kreidberg, Seth Gottlieb and 22 other people liked this
So what's the excuse for the past eight years? Why the shift? (general statement)
- Mona Nomura
Quote overheard in a bar during the 2000 election "I figure getting Cs at Harvard is like getting As at UGA. I got As at UGA and I wouldn't trust me to run this country!"
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
I think it would actually be a good thing if we were ruled by those giant brained people from that episode of Star Trek...
- Alex Scoble
Mona, I guess the country wanted to try seeing if ignorance was bliss, for a bit. (please note I'm generalizing here; I voted the Libertarian ticket in the last two elections; I may end up doing that again, so I can't be blamed for this mess, personally).
- Helen Sventitsky
Alex, really? LOL!
- Helen Sventitsky
hahahhahahahhahahahha!!! Helen, you rock LOL
- Mona Nomura
yes. exactly. I HATE this jr. high school mentality that intelligence is lame and Joe "Six Pack" should be the cool guy. Thanks but NO thanks.
- JoEllen
Yeah! Just like our best buddy said "Thanks but no thanks" to the Bridge to Nowhere *ughs*
- Helen Sventitsky
It does not matter who we elect, we are on the road to nowhere! Our level of tolerance for people we disagree with is almost nonexistent. We do not agree with someone right a way we do not like them. Online we blocked them, ban them, delete them. Off line we complain about them to authorities. Is this the society we breeding? This is nothing less than Fascism! It will get much worse than better!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Yep! Just for that, I'm unblocking Noah. At least until he starts hounding about Sarah Palin again. :D
- Helen Sventitsky
Igor, I think when it comes to banning someone for disagreeing with them, I think it's more than that. I think most folks (at least here on FriendFeed), don't ban someone for disagreeing with them. They ban them for the ways they disagree. I, for one, don't like being called bitch, whore, cunt, etc. because someone didn't like something I said. I also don't like being assailed time and time again for not kowtowing to someone's point of view. Been there, done that. It's tiring and tiresome.
- Helen Sventitsky
Helen most of the people on FF are great people, but there are some exceptions of likes and dislikes. I think we are mature enough to respect each other. In the heat of the moment we may get angry at a person and say something stupid, but that does not make us a bad person. It is all about respecting others. But I think the general level of tolerance in a society as a whole is diminishing. It is mob rules!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
I can hang with that, r.e. general level of tolerance in society, along with the respecting...
- Helen Sventitsky
The Rich Are Staging a Coup This Morning ...a message from Michael Moore - http://www.michaelmoore.com/words...
Anne Bouey, Alix Whitmire, Jeff Jones and 4 other people liked this
I really dislike this chap
- Steven Cains
Staging? How can they stage a coup when they own everything?
- CW™
"Let me cut to the chase. The biggest robbery in the history of this country is taking place as you read this. Though no guns are being used, 300 million hostages are being taken."
- Zee.
My major gripe with Moore is the sensationalism
- Mo Kargas
Mo, As oppose to Rush?
- CW™
check your email Zee :) cheers
- Luca Conti
I've always wondered why people gripe about Moore's alleged sensationalism. Were he to direct his talents toward more mainstream fare, he would be considered a shrewd marketing person. It seems to me that the only unforgivable sin he's made in the eyes of some was to let his personal political feelings known.
- Steven Perez
And just for the record, SICKO was his best.
- Steven Perez
@Mo And his stretching of the "truth"
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
@Chris Haha, that guy takes it to another level. I just believe if you want to get your point across, drop the buzzwords and hype
- Mo Kargas
Steven; I dislike the one-sided reporting from both ends of the political spectrum. Whether it's O'Reilly or Moore, the arrogance and blatant disregard for any information or opinion that contradicts their own makes their content rubbish.
- Steven Cains
+1 Cains.
- Sprague D
1UP Cains. Moore is nothing more than a basement blogger with a budget.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Unfortunately the majority of the US public doesn't respond to anything subtle. You have to hit them over the head with images of dead babies, falling towers, peaceful protesters being beaten and gassed before they even notice.
- CW™
Oooh is it time for douche meme?
- Josh Haley
ok ready for the flames? Some people just don't like the truth thrown in their face.
- CW™
Christopher, c'mon now, are you really incapable of accepting that not everyone is going to agree with what Moore says? I really appreciate Moore's early work up until the second half of Bowling for Columbine. But, everything after that halfway mark, and everything he's done since, is less about documenting and more about creating a platform to further his opinion and agenda. There's nothing wrong with that; the man has the right. But I share an equal right to disagree with him.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Or, at the least, to disagree with his methodology.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I view Moore as a Capitalist. I like his early works, I agree with his politics but it seems like it's more about dollars now. Provocation means money.
- AJ Kohn
Akiva - Agree with you that there are other ways of putting things and I would also prefer they be presented differently. But do you think the core US Citizens are able to listen to that type of communication without losing attention and going back to Jerry Springer/Rush Limbaugh/Bill ORiely? I can't fault Moore for doing what he thinks need to be done to get his message out as long as it doesn't harm someone else. He at least sometimes tries to inflict humor into his approach.
- CW™
Christopher, that knife cuts both ways. People are extravagantly loyal to their opinions whether they're drooling over O'Reilly or Moore. Just because people are dedicated to an opinion contrary to yours does not make them any less than you. Believe me, their feelings are mutual.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I'm with Akiva and Cains, I really dislike Moore. He's a sensationalist and a self-aggrandizing shit-stirrer and that's irritating on both sides of the spectrum
- Soup
he's a filmmaker ... sensationalism and propaganda are natural aspects of the job. you guys take him way too seriously.
- .LAG liked that
This is neoconservativism in a nutshell: An authority fetish coupled with general contempt for markets, masses, and choice. - http://www.reddit.com/r...
Eric P, Jeff Jones and R. Ferguson liked this
[MSNBC]: Observations from today's Obama/Biden event - http://x.techwheat.com/1VO
Jeff Jones and Dave Winer liked this
"After watching the unveiling of the ticket, it's clear Obama hired Biden to accomplish three things: 1) Connect the ticket with blue-collar voters. Notice, Biden led his remarks with the economy. 2) Sell Obama's story. Biden owned Obama's biography in a way we've yet to see from the candidate himself. 3) Credibly attack John McCain. Biden didn't mince words about his old "friend"."
- newsjunk.com
McCain's "Faith" Plagiarism? - http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2008...
Cee Bee, Jeff Jones and Russellreno liked this
"Hmm...POW story...silent meeting...the sign of a cross traced into the dirt in a show of Christian solidarity...the strength it gives to go on. Quite a bit in common wouldn't you say? Oh, but it gets better still, because it turns out McCain is a big fan of Alexander Solzhenitsyn, indeed McCain even wrote about Solzhenitsyn in an article, and even specifically mentioned "The Gulag Archipelago" in that very same article."
- Vox
from Bookmarklet
Fiscal Conservative vs. Tax & Spend Liberal - Be the signal - http://bethesignal.org/blog...
Scott Granneman, Arash, don loeb and 27 other people liked this
I dislike taxes as much as everyone else, but I always pay my bills. How else can we as a country pay our bills without the taxes? Debts always come due and the responsible thing to do is to suck it up and pay 'em.
- Kevin C. Tofel
Correction - in Canada ordinary citizens can go bankrupt if they develop health problems - I know people who have. There is NO single tier health care system in Canada. Tell me that the next time you have to pay out of pocket for prescription medication, or hand over your VISA at the emergency or they won't admit you because the ambulance ride costs money...or you have to go to Buffalo for an MRI and pay $$$...sorry to vent but I keep seeing these misconceptions and I'm getting a little tired of it.
- Kevin Cearns
I hate oversimplified commentary like this. I am not going to defend current government spending, because that bugs me to no end. But, the idea that Clinton was responsible for a surplus is laughable. Read this link for a little enlightenment. http://www.letxa.com/article...
- Jeremy Hall
I don't particularly hold to any party vision. And I'm not promoting a version of Canada. I'm merely pointing out fact. It is one thing to aspire to a particular reality, another entirely to assume that reality already exists.
- Kevin Cearns
You as well....Thanks for the conversation.
- Kevin Cearns
[FriendFeed]: Just gave $100 to Obama. McC should be careful not to run motivational ads around the end of the mon... http://friendfeed.com/e...
joshua fouts, Rick Powell and Jeff Jones liked this
Why are you people "like"ing an automated repost to FF of an automated notice to Twitter of another FF item? Don't encourage him.
- Ken Sheppardson
I liked this because of the sheer insanity of "like"ing an automated repost to FF of an automated notice to Twitter of another FF item. ;P
- joshua fouts
I wish I could "like" the fact that you "like" the sheer insanity of "like"ing an automated repost to FF of an automated notice to Twitter of another FF item. Where's the little check box so I can automatically post this to Twitter while I'm at it?
- Ken Sheppardson
My mind is boggling. I've seen it all now: recursive liking. :)
- ha3rvey (free hugs!)
I like your wishing you could "like" the fact that he "likes" the sheer insanity of "like"ing an automated repost of an automated notice to Twitter of another FF item. Where's the little check box to subsribe to the RSS feed for these comments? :-)
- Richard ¿digame? Walker
from twhirl
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