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Beth Kanter › Likes
RT @joseiswriting: technology + transparency = new politics. read tomorrow at @huffposttech, which will feature a blog from @EllnMllr
Beth Kanter liked this
Sarah Made a Mess of Herself Eating Raspberries Tonight (as you can tell). Yum!
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Harold, Yasin Müderrisoğlu, Ron Bailey and 42 other people liked this
Turns out Audrey had raspberries tonight as well. :) http://friendfeed.com/rochell...
- Louis Gray
The smell of raspberries has been overpowering even the peaches at the farmer's markets...
- Jason Wehmhoener
it's been a while, but I do remember those days . . . especially the one where the baby's food was all over the kitchen and the dog got in the pantry and emptied a box of Cheerios all over the floor as well
- Shari Weiss
JJ had huckleberry jam tonight - close
- Jesse Stay
How'd you get the pics to show up in Friendfeed? adorable kids btw, my daughter wont let me post pics of my grandaughter
- David Bruce
David, you can take post any photos to FriendFeed by using the share box at the top and clicking Photos. Pick the ones you want and hit Post.
- Louis Gray
You can also attach any photo to an e-mail sent to share@friendfeed.com and those photos will go to your FriendFeed stream.
- Jesse Stay
And she obviously loved every minute of it!
- Anne Bouey
How cute! I think she likes them a bunch!!
- Susan Beebe
from iPhone
Left picture is adorable!
- Mitchell Tsai
Raspberry mess and color coordination, nice. Were off to the Blackberry patch this morning; gonna get messy real quick.
- Mark Evans
Looks like fun! :-)
- Ladyepiphanybug
I'm just about to leave for the farmer's market! I'm not crazy for raspberries (I can see from the first photo that they are probably tart! :) ) but we still have strawberries, blueberries and blackberries. Not to mention peaches, cherries and corn. YUM!
- Dawn
I'm back from checking downstairs on party clean-up. They did a great job! And left a choco cream pie! Want a slice?
Beth Kanter liked this
An Adventure Unfollowing All The People I Followed on Twitter (Without a Happy Ending) - Thoughts on social media, the web and technology - jungleG - http://jungleg.com/2009...
Johni Fisher, Robert Scoble, Owen Greaves and Beth Kanter liked this
90 Foundations that tweet from @philanthropy411 and some staffers http://philanthropy411.wordpress.com/2009...
Beth Kanter liked this
I'm going to use the deeper dive - great resource
- Beth Kanter
LOLnptech.Org - http://lolnptech.blogspot.com/
Beth Kanter, Moody (Sweet FA 4 Life), Jordan Viator and 3 other people liked this
Because sometimes you need a little comic relief ...
- Laura Norvig
from Bookmarklet
We've broken the 150 member mark on the Nptech room! I'm curious about who you all are and why you joined the room? - http://friendfeed.com/rooms...
E-Advocate Network, Meryn Stol, Laura Norvig and 5 other people liked this
I joined to be part of the conversation! I also see the room as another great listening post.
- Avi Kaplan
Jonathon - thanks for posting this! I wrote about why in this post http://beth.typepad.com/beths_b... but I like the conversation here and the fact we're intentional about sharing ideas.
- Beth Kanter
I'm here mainly as an observer. I try to seek out "frontiers" on the web: places only very special people can reach. This is one of them: you are all probably nonprofit-minded AND you know Friendfeed. That results in this subset of 150 members.
- Meryn Stol
Jonathon .. do you want to do an experiment to increase our numbers or should be try to get people who already joined more engaged?
- Beth Kanter
It's a good question, B -- I remember your experiment that initially got people involved. What does the community think? Would you like to have more folks in the sand box or higher-quality sand castles? :)
- Jonathon Colman
I wanted to find out what other people were thinking/talking about
- Michelle Murrain
I joined shortly after the room got started. It's been an awesome addition to my current set of "rooms"... it's like another vein of data.
- Clay Newton
Jonathon - do you think that we focused on a deeper engagement, the numbers would follow? this is helpful as I'm working on the wearemedia module for community building.
- Beth Kanter
Hi, nptechies! I just read Laura Norvig's post on Beth's Blog about this group, so I thought I drop a note. I'm here to meet others who are sharing resources about how to rock technology for social good, and love to learn from those who are in a similar position of being their org's internal evangelist for social media.
- Matt Koltermann
Hi Matt, thanks for the note. I am definitely in that position of being my org's internal evangelist. I manage the social media presence for the Resource Center http://nationalserviceresources.org/ and I originally joined this room to kind of eavesdrop and figure out who's who in nptech. Since then, I've had the privilege of meeting and talking to several of the folks here and I really...
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- Laura Norvig
I've been a member of this room for a few months. It's been rather quiet. I posted some links, have had a few conversations but it would be great if more were actively involved. I hope Laura's post kicks things up.
- Christine Dattilo
I just picked up a non-profit client in my new media consulting work. As I develop a social media strategy for them, I expect to be paying close attention to what people are saying in this group.
- Que Sarah Sarah
Super sneak preview of @sprout twitter widget maker Pls send me your feedback http://demo.sproutinc.com/mix... This is our demo server - not permanent
Beth Kanter liked this
Is there a Muni all 22s end at Bryant/17th on Full Moon Thursdays when you got a sitter but failed to make evening plans? Or is it just me?
Beth Kanter liked this
you out here?
- Beth Kanter
Should People Kill Their Blogs in Favor of Lifestreaming? - http://lifestreamblog.com/should-...
AJ Kohn, Meryn Stol, Ho John Lee and 14 other people liked this
They both consist of a series of online written webpage messages, often including comments, an RSS feed, trackbacks, and categorization. If a lifestream includes all the features of a blog, how is it not a blog? Blogging is dead, long live blogging.
- Mike Chelen
No. Do both. Lifestreaming is not an excuse to be lazy ;-)
- Andy Sternberg
from fftogo
Without blogs, lifestreaming would be rather dull.
- April
Feed your blog to your lifestream.
- Morton Fox
Or feed your lifestream to your blog.
- Jason Clarke
from iPhone
Is there a contest somewhere to see who can ask the silliest social media questions? A blog and a lifestream are two different tools. They can interact with each other, but not really replace each other.
- David Chartier
from BuddyFeed
no.
- Dan owns Comicsforge.com
it depends on what their blogs are. Blogs are the place to write longer form pieces that simply don't work well in most lifestreaming apps - and I really like longer form pieces. The bitesize chunks in lifestreaming tend to accentuate the superficial too easily.
- felix
Until Tumblr came along, there was no distinction about what a blog should be versus a lifestream. Just because a traditonal blog platform isn't necessarily optimized for it doesn't mean a blog on Blogger or WordPress couldn't be used as a lifestream. Really it comes down to what the content is that is being lifestreamed. So if you want to separate them, fine. And if your lifestream is...
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- Jason Clarke
from email
No
- .LAG liked that
I think most people should. Me for instance, cannot keep my blog updated with any regularity. I guess, in the end that means that blogging (or writing long-form text) was just not my thing. So you are right, that for normal people, who are more "consumers" than "producers", should definitely kill their blogs (I don't know about life-streaming, though) :)
- Shivanand Velmurugan
Do both. I agree with feeding your blog (referring to a blog that is about a specific area of expertise) to your lifestream and letting your audience choose which one they would like to follow. It depends if your audience is interested in only your specialized content and not necessary curious about your personal life or opinion on other topics.
- Mike Smith
I think it's a sad state of affairs when people want to talk about whether or not they should "life stream." How about just living your life and getting over yourself?
- Dawn
Dawn, Lifestreaming isn't always about being a narcissist although many use it that way. It's also about the power of curating the vast content of the web to share with others. And for the record for those that may not have read my post. I disagree with killing your blog.
- Mark Krynsky
Mark, ignore that. REALLY.
- Kamilah Reed (K. Gill)
I only lifestream (through FF). My Friendfeed is also used as the closest thing I have to a regularly updated blog. It's a combo of both, but more lifestream. I want to republish it in paper form. I recently stopped keeping up the paper journals I had written daily for about 15 years in favor of recording everything electronically. Lifestreams probably won't kill blogs. Other stuff will.
- Kamilah Reed (K. Gill)
I'm one that finds it simpler and less engaging to use a lifestream versus a blog. However, I guess it would also depend on how much content someone actually needs to write. For short submissions lifestreams are great, but I can't imagine trying to frequently read 500+ word posts on FriendFeed.
- Xavion Saltair
Xavion, what makes reading a long post in Friendfeed more difficult than on any other platform?
- Mike Chelen
No. Some folks like "broadcasting". Others like "publishing". Others like streaming. All converge here. And use varies according to purpose.
- andy
[Holy Cow!] Facebook's Own Estimates Show Youth Flight From Site; Now More Grandparents Than High School Users http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Shevonne, ɯɥøq sɐɯoɥʇ, Steve Barr and 7 other people liked this
Let's not overthink FB. Kids just move on. I'm more curious where they are moving to.
- Francine Hardaway
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Another demographic switch. If not Facebook or MySpace, where are younger users moving now? What's next, say the fickle?
- Rob McNair-Huff
I've seen nothing but youth surging to Facebook. Those who get it stay with it, and those who don't are like the Twitter users who come, join, and never update. Just from my knowledge of y'know...being a youth.
- Sean Quinn
Numbers and statistics, we can make them say almost anything we want... Here is my view: We can't really say that users in the 18-24 age range are going somewhere else by looking at these numbers alone. There are more users in each age range. We can say for sure that the progression is less aggressive in some age range, but is it that problematic? One thing we have to consider here is...
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- alltoute
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
I think one of @MOOBER 's points above is insightful. The data seems to show a clear story about the student demographic - The age demographic 18-24 shows absolute growth. However, his point about the "unknown gender" growth of 291% doesn't show WHO isn't sharing that data. I would think it more likely that the 55+ growth (generally less tech savvy - no offense) would account for the...
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- Steffan Antonas
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
The hottest stories on Twitter from TweetMeme - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Mark Harai, Parthasarathi, Beth Kanter and 16 other people liked this
It's Nick Halstead, as seen on FriendFeed here: http://friendfeed.com/nickhal... -- I'm loving TweetMeme.
- Robert Scoble
One of a few videos from our trip to London.
- Robert Scoble
What did you shoot that interview clip with, Robert?
- Michael Kinney
My Canon 5D Mark II with a 24 mm F 2.8 lens.
- Robert Scoble
very good
- Thomas Power
Tweetmeme was one of the first WP plugins I installed on my blog :)
- Susan Beebe
Beth Kanter liked this
Drew rocks!
- Beth Kanter
A Corporate Guide for Social Media - http://scottmonty.posterous.com/a-corpo...
Cathryn Hrudicka, Beth Kanter and J. D. Ebberly liked this
As the social web proliferates, corporate policies are being turned upside down. Forbes has some examples of how companies can change and begin to adopt some of these technologies.http://www.forbes.com ...
- Scott Monty
I've subscribed to your Posterous, Scott, as well as listed it in my blog listings. Your posts are educational and informative. Thanks for sharing. You should post more often.
- J. D. Ebberly
Can you be a thought leader without a blog? I'll discuss that here:
Daniel Chow, Volkan Özçelik, Mike Fruchter and 92 other people liked this
Jeremiah Owyang last night was giving me crap about not blogging. I notice that the people on the top of the http://www.ffholic.com most popular lists aren't participants, they are mostly thought leaders.
- Robert Scoble
OK what is a "thought leader"
- anna sauce
He misses the "thought leadership" that I provided on my blog.
- Robert Scoble
And Forrester thinks they are "thought leaders" (instead of analysts) which I got from a recruiter there.
- anna sauce
Yes - through twitter and FriendFeed
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Are you a thought leader or a conversation leader Robert? I'd call you a conversation leader.
- James Watters
We discussed that a bit over beers and it takes thought and time to put together a blog, especially one that is going to get discussion.
- Robert Scoble
I can be a thought leader w/o a blog only if a bear shits in the woods.
- geoff hines
I wonder what he's really asking or saying to you.
- Myrna
I'm willing to bet if you're a thought leader you have a blog. How often you update it is another issue
- Tyler Gillies
Myrna: I think a lot of people want to read considered opinion, not little grunts or small items on friendfeed or Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
It all comes down to audience doesn't it?
- Mitch
is a thought leader who has a blog but doesn't' have startup experience or experience building a company akin to the old saying that "those who can't do teach"...would be interested on your thoughts Robert.
- Mike Bracco
Well, I miss your personal blog too, but really you have transferred that energy over to Building43, so pretty much we are getting you're take over there
- Stephen Pickering
tylergillies: I wonder if you can be a thought leader without a blog, though? Can you be seen as "serious" by just Twittering or FriendFeeding? The evidence says no.
- Robert Scoble
Yes. You can be a thought leader without a blog. It depends on your subject and your audience - it all depends on who you are a thought leader to.
- Rachel Clarke
Maybe he wants to know there's a place he can find you instead of searching for your FF postings.
- Myrna
Re: grunts on friendfeed, the same thing can be said for books and magazine articles compared to the idiots on television.
- Mitch
James: I used to do a lot of longer pieces over on my blog which many told me were thought leadership.
- Robert Scoble
I wonder if Ghandi and MLK would be blogging...
- Ken Sheppardson
Not all leadership is thought leadership, lets make that clear first.
- James Watters
I think you're the guy that brings people together. You're the firestarter. You don't need a blog for that.
- erwin blom
You need to gain a following, then say "eff it" and get rid of the blog. For instance, no one listens to a damn word I say
- Mike Nayyar
the truly confident have nothing to prove. but sharing is caring.
- Mike White
Being a thought leader requires coherent original thought a medium to express that thought and an audience who are interested in either you or the subject matter.
- Anton Mannering
erwin: I agree, but why aren't the most active participants here on FriendFeed (or over on Twitter) the ones who get to the top of most popular lists? I think it comes from authority, influence, (and in Twitter's case, getting lucky and getting put on the Suggested User List) but those are things that are hard to earn 140 characters at a time.
- Robert Scoble
For me to consider anyone a thought leader, they had better have made a career out of what they say and do. I don't consider someone a leader in something until it is their life.
- Mitch
YES mike!
- Myrna
But you know Robert on your personal blog, its like we are always talking about just getting it out there, I wouldn't worry about it being perfect. It's like this blogger that Jason interview on one of his first shows said, "The biggest thing I had to teach new bloggers in order to be successful was the ability to hit the "Publish" button.
- Stephen Pickering
For instance, one of my tutors was thought leader in the origin of apples. he's never got near a blog.
- Rachel Clarke
you bet Ghandi, et al would be blogging as they were keen to communicate to the masses
- Geer
One could argue that thoughts are occasionally more than just quick 140-ish character blips from one's skull. Some thoughts require more in depth thought and consideration. So I think that long term, no you can't be a thought leader without blogging or writing some form of thought piece. Isn't that what a thought leader is? Someone who brings ideas to the forefront using logic to back up and show how they drew those thoughts?
- Michael Koby
The greatest thought leaders are people like Zuckerberg and Brin/Page - who are CREATING the companies of the future - WRITING blog is sort of beside the point right?
- Mike Bracco
I think this shows that Jowyang never participates in FF, which is a pity b/c I followed him here!
- anna sauce
anna: Jeremiah has a day job: to write reports and white papers and meet with companies for Forrester.
- Robert Scoble
Pre-internet, editors of widely read highbrow magazines were definitely considered thought leaders by their peers and readers. Filtering, featuring and commenting on relevant and cutting edge content via Friendfeed, Twitter and Posterous is arguably an analogous pursuit -- if done well.
- Alex Gault
I think the assumptionthat the only method of communication to be a thought leader is using a blog is flawed. A blog is fine if the people you intend to be a thought leader for read blogs. If they don't I'd suggest you go where the audience is. Or the conversation.
- Anton Mannering
Don't confuse popular with thought leaders.
- Jim Turner
Robert: well I'm new to following you this year, so I would definitely say your current medium has affected my view/opinion of you. At the same time I also really valued your leadership on the Iran front and will admit I was moved by it.
- James Watters
If you don't have a blog you know nothing about social media and wouldn't be considered a "thought leader" at least in this context
- Tyler Gillies
The best/most interesting ideas tend to be the shortest and most concise - therefore no, all you need is Twitter and a following
- Nick Smith
To me, blogs are for essays, and a certain less-early-adopter audience. But tey are going rapidly by the wayside, and that's totally OK with me. This was a hot topic at my happy hour #2 after 21st amendment, where some old publishing industry, SF journalists were, most of them were bloggers, new to Twitter. When I mentioned Friendfeed, the expressions were "we have no idea what you are talking about" but they have learned to embrace, instead of running from it.
- anna sauce
Yes Anna and Anton
- Myrna
"I accomplish in ten words what many authors fail in a lifetime of books." Nietzsche
- James Watters
Nick: well, then, why are the people at the top of the Twitter lists almost always people who either blogged or worked in some other media, like TV or films?
- Robert Scoble
I wrote on a Paul Bucheit post that blogs aren't dead, what's dead is text, Video is 10x more compelling and more likely to be consumed
- Stephen Pickering
@robert agree. Maybe the best is the combination of indepth vision in blogposts with firestarting and engaging in Twiitter / Friendfeed amongst others.
- erwin blom
Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Paul Krugman, Stephen Hawking, et al...those are the thought leaders...how many of them are blogging?
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
@TomVMorris is a thought leader and he's doing a good job of keeping it on Twitter. But for most topics, I would think you need a better tool, then just Tweets.
- Robert Wilkins
Alex: +1
- Mike Bracco
Stephen: I am big into video and I disagree. Video is more likely to communicate emotion and visual cues, but is harder to consume. On the other hand, I think video is very important to being seen as a thought leader on friendfeed.
- Robert Scoble
Bill Gates??? Rich monopolist who has credibility because of power.
- James Watters
If you wrote a piece for the Atlantic Monthly I'd consider you a thought leader :)
- James Watters
Yeah you're right, I can read a blog post quicker than 15 minutes
- Stephen Pickering
Alex all those guys still have a vehicle with which tio relay their thoughts. which is what I think is the real idea behind blogs.
- Jim Turner
I rarely consume video. it takes too long compared to the written word.
- Rachel Clarke
The point is that he built something real. An empire. What has Michael Arrington built?
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
James: that's not why Bill has credibility with me. He knows more about technology business (and now charity) than any single human being I've met.
- Robert Scoble
James: credibility b/c built a great business that changed the computing world maybe...
- Mike Bracco
Thought leadership operates across a reasonable broad continuum of medium : at one end Twitter, the other end Books, with Blogs down towards the Twitter end - so they play a part but there is too much noise!
- Geer
yes you can be a thought leader without a blog.
- sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
Yeah, but an empire built on shadiness, capturing people
- Stephen Pickering
Alex: Arrington has built a news network that is very good. I can't compete with it.
- Robert Scoble
to be a thought leader, all you need is a platform. a blog is just one of the many you can choose
- Rachel Clarke
Jeremiah's a smart guy - he's good to catch one-on-one time with. I'm with Jeremiah on this one.
- Jesse Stay
"The king will always have eloquence for a simple reason, the drum roll before he speaks" Nietzsche (my view of Gates)
- James Watters
I don't like these discussions on "what's dead/dying" because it's always absurd hyperbole.
- Mitch
Same for Buffet, his only business strategy is consolidation, becoming a monopoly in an area and then hammering you
- Stephen Pickering
@ Robert See Jim Turner's comment - Don't confuse 'popular' with 'thought leaders'.
- Nick Smith
That said, Jeremiah's also the one that convinced me to use Google Reader much less than I used to and rely more on FriendFeed and Twitter to find the news.
- Jesse Stay
Mitch: I don't think blogging is dead and anyway anytime you say someone say something is dead just replace that word with 'becoming less interesting" and it almost always fits.
- Robert Scoble
I'm sorry guys, when Gates thought the internet wrist watch was the next big thing? Please please explain how that is the best ever.
- James Watters
Not all thoughts can be narrowed to 140 characters and that is what blogs are for, they are for longer thoughts and essays. I think you need a blog to be a thought leader it is just not necessary to post to it everyday about everything.
- Kim Landwehr
@robert The good thing about blogging is it freezes time. It gives you time and breath to think. It's there tomorrow as well. FF is real time and evolving. This conversation develops every minute. And tomorrow i won't find it anymore or easy. So yes: start blogging again ;-)
- erwin blom
Microsoft is one of the greatest American success stories in history and also one of the greatest declines, rapidly, in business history
- Stephen Pickering
James: even the best athlete loses once in a while. Gates is no different. I've had my major disagreements with Bill but he still is one of the smartest people I've ever met. Just look at his annual letter for his foundation and try to argue with that.
- Robert Scoble
Guys it's the message not the medium that's all. The Medium is only relevant as a method of reaching the audience. Being a thought leader is achieved by having a track record of obvious expertise and innovation and then choosing to share that. If you share it with your cat though you're not a thought leader. If you share it with an audience who trust your expertise then a thought leader you are. The medium is irrelevant. The person, the message and the audience. That is all there is.
- Anton Mannering
Stephen: how many billion dollar businesses does Microsoft have TODAY? Go ahead and guess. I guessed wrong yesterday.
- Robert Scoble
Tumblr, Posterous sucess show me impulse is in, thought composition is out; thinking hurts, and reading good thinking hurts. Most people don't do it, it can cause you to reconsider your world. Like right now if I have to reconsider thinking Bill Gates is overrated it will hurt my head, I live by that thought.
- James Watters
Robert- I know Jeremiah, and I know he has a job. I have one too. I choose to participate in FF, he doesn't. That's totally OK. I'm just saying, that it's interesting that he thinks it's necessary to have a blog to be a "thought leader" (Forrester's key phrase lol)
- anna sauce
Anton: Totally agree. I always thought it was funny how people equated journalism to the newspaper. The newspaper is just a medium.
- Mike Bracco
Yes, but its one of the greatest squanders of wealth in history. Apple has more cash I think on hand, and for a company that nets 6 billion a quarter, their equity is abysmmal. Its one of the greatest squanders of wealth in history. The stock price is less than it was 10 years ago, I think. How Balmer can still be CEO is beyond me
- Stephen Pickering
Following long conversations on iPhone interface is painful because you have to scroll down after every refresh :(
- Tyler Gillies
@tlergilles stick in there I'm glad your here
- James Watters
tylergillias, click on the "16 minutes ago" thing at the top left of this thread, should sort you out.
- Mark
Stephen: I agree, but Microsoft has 14 billion dollar businesses. Many of which are increasing in growth, not decreasing.
- Robert Scoble
Mike - Exactly and as soon as journalist realise that they're not married to the printing press they'll be better off.
- Anton Mannering
Stephen: I don't know many other companies that have 14 billion dollar businesses cooking along.
- Robert Scoble
I think a blog is a stepping stone to becoming a thought leader.
- Tamar Weinberg
Dangerous math, by this reasoning John Chambers is the thought king.
- James Watters
Robert - A blog is more like a column with comments, this is a conversation that never ends. I think we need both.
- erwin blom
MSFT, 36 billion in Equity after how many years of netting 15-20 billion? That is just criminal. All this time they'd been better off giving that cash to shareholders.
- Stephen Pickering
+1,000 Stephen.
- James Watters
If you want to be a thought leader in molecular physics then having a blog or being on friendfeed would be irrelevant. The medium that the relevant community flock to is scientific journals.
- Anton Mannering
All bloggers don't become thought leaders(obviously) and all thought leaders don't have blogs so what feels best to you Robert?
- Myrna
Robert surprised me yesterday with is post from 21st amendment. He seemed surprised the person next to him didn't know who he was. That's dangerously close to celebrity think.
- James Watters
Robert, what's there 14 billion dollar business cooking along, and how many billion dollar businesses do they have?
- Stephen Pickering
I think so. Chris Pirillo is a thought leader with or without his blog...
- krystynchong
I do miss your blogs Rob xx
- Mark
Mark: that doesn't work on iPhone interface
- Tyler Gillies
Having a blog is only a pre-requisite for being a thought leader in blogging.
- Anton Mannering
Anton lol
- Myrna
I think chris pirillos blog complements his video and not vice versa
- Tyler Gillies
Robert - If the audience you're interested in is on Friendfeed then that's where you should be. However if a significant number of people in your audience feel you should be blogging then perhaps you should communicate that way as well. Go where your audience is.
- Anton Mannering
Talking about thought leaders, i'd like the name of the person before the entry. Not everyone is equal when talking.
- erwin blom
What's the char limit on friendfeed posts?
- Tyler Gillies
Erwin - I'm equal
- Anton Mannering
erwin: i like that idea. it could work as a sort of "mental filter"
- Tyler Gillies
Erwin - Interesting stance that. If you know the people it makes sense. But surely you should take every unknown commenter as you find them and judge their comments neutrally until you can assess their knowedge/ability over time? Otherwise you run the risk of being lead by the same old faces without intelligent interruption of the conversation.
- Anton Mannering
anton: sometimes a comment doesn't make sense contextually until you know who wrote it. i like the "feature" because it would allow you to form that context _before_ you read the comment
- Tyler Gillies
Character Limits on friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Robert Scoble
robert: thanks :)
- Tyler Gillies
I still think the internet wrist watch is the next big thing :-P
- Jesse Stay
tygerlilie - I agree, I was commenting on Erwins thoughts about not all commenters being equal not on whether the names should be first.
- Anton Mannering
Great topic, been discussing this lately with colleagues too. If you're an individual who has an already established industry reputation, you can show thought leadership in many other ways beyond a blog, but if you're just starting out, you need some sort of a platform and a blog is an easy way to get going and show depth/substance
- Louise Rasho
Implementing @username in friendfeed would be helpful
- Anton Mannering
Anton - Of course that problem is there, but it's how i use FF on a busy day. Scan my favourites among the masses.
- erwin blom
Regarding earlier posts re: video, it's just far too slow. I can scan faster than listen and watch, and with scanning you can absorb so much more information.
- anna sauce
Jesse, I think you should continue your vodcast. I think it could be big. I myself looked forward to it as much as TWIT
- Stephen Pickering
Louise - Totally agree. As long as your audience are likely to read blogs.
- Anton Mannering
Absolutely.
- Peter Johnson
Stephen, you think? I'm thinking I'll need to space it out more if I do. Also, need to figure out a focus. Editing is a pain, too, so need to figure out a solution for that as well.
- Jesse Stay
i think video transcription will be a big thing. building 43 has already done it with at least one interview
- Tyler Gillies
Jesse, definitely, just shoot it and let it go raw, forget the editing. Also it helps your exposure and compliments your other businesses
- Stephen Pickering
Anton - even if they're not regular blog readers, you could use other tools (Twitter, FF, etc) to drive them to your blog. It just gives you an opportunity to have a longer monologue so that when you get into other short-form platforms you've established some cred.
- Louise Rasho
yeah raw footage is always fun
- Tyler Gillies
maybe I'll try that - I think I may space it out to every other week though.
- Jesse Stay
Oh that's fine, every other week, I think, I would look forward to it
- Stephen Pickering
Erwin - That's cool. I understand and if you get to know a lot of the people who regualrly comment you get to be able to watch out for the good ones and autoblank the ones who's comments you don't find useful.
- Anton Mannering
Well, I think this proves that you might not be a thought leader using Twitter and FriendFeed but you certainly can get discussion going. I think I'll write a blog. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Louise - I more meant that, dependin on your subject matter, it's dangerous to assume that people will be looking for your information online. Serious scientists read peer-reviewed journals to be taken seriously that's where you have to be.
- Anton Mannering
Louise - But for a lot of things a blog is perfect and easy way to start sharing your thoughts/expertise with the world
- Anton Mannering
Absolutely yes, a big yes. Scientists, acedemics, historians, archeologists, artists (except art marketing) are publishing research studies and conceptual papers. They may wind up on TED talks, but they are looking for large grant backing. Social media would be useful to meet others, so even Twitter is fine, but it is all unrelated to their career.
- E-Advocate Network
hmmm. Robert, i'm 1 of 7 board members for an indigenous mapping wannabe nonprofit. i volunteered to redev the website. last oct started twittering news about mapping and indigenous issues. save them every month and archive onto the site. few days ago, we had a conference. folks came from different parts of world becuz of the twitter. not because of email marketing. people thought i was the leader or director becuz my writing/twittering in the back of the room with news.
- Rosemarie McKeon
You have to have some way of publicizing your thoughts. A popular TV show would work just fine. Given then lack of Twitter or FF posts on Digg etc I would say they aren't yet ways of becoming a thought leader.
- Todd Hoff
I think the blog is going to be the central hub of one's identity on the net. It's so cheap to host one. I think it will be the dial tone. So I think Wordpress is the biggest threat to Facebook
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: I disagree. My hub is going to be an aggregator. For now that's either Facebook, FriendFeed, or Plaxo or something like it or maybe Twitter since that's the defacto place most people come to pimp their blogs anyway.
- Robert Scoble
Ken: that's a good point and one that I was trying to get to. In the future thought leaders will communicate using a number of different tools, not just 140 character messages. Even the Twitterers I follow the most and like the most are ones who use other tools to communicate with me.
- Robert Scoble
Just cause people 'follow' you on FF doesn't mean they _follow_ you, if you follow. (Whee, that's one of those fun words that becomes silly and nonsensical if you repeat it enough. follow follow follow.)
- Andrew C (✓)
But with all these widgets you can bring all these services into your blog, and the blog is so much more expressive of who you are, with personalized design elements and so much more flexibility
- Stephen Pickering
I don't agree to be a thought leader you need to blog. I also don't agree you need an audience to be a thought leader. To be seen as a thought leader in public, you do. If your goal is to be a thought leader in any industry, then you need to speak your mind, directly to that arena and do it loudly enough to be heard. However you better be prophetic unless you already have an audience...
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- Sheryl
Robert - great question and dialolgue here! Thought Leaders are wise folks that engage, lead, inspire and mentor their respective audiences by a *variety* of methods; including but not limited to blogs. For example, they may author and publish a book, launch a blog, speak at a conference, lead a discussion group, host a podcast, etc. Blogs are just 1 tool in the thought leaders' aresenal, albeit a very key tool at that as it's become an expected tool ... as in your case with JO.
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
When I google Stephen Pickering or Robert Scoble the first thing that comes up is our blogs
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: yes, but that's a historical problem. My blog has been around longer and has had lots more work and links to it. So Google counts it higher. For new users who don't have blogs the same will not be true.
- Robert Scoble
I also think JO is a very bright man, but sometimes his thinking is about trends and assumptions, not reality. Reality can tell a very different story.
- Sheryl
wow, great way to mine information here!!!! impressed. I truly attest to how great FriendFeed really is.
- iTbay
Another key point: seeing a new developing trend, e.g. Steve Rubel's adoption of Posterous instead of his former tradtional blog site indicates two things: 1. he wants to speed up and simplify blog posting, and 2. he may feel that lifestreaming is a better way to connect, share and engage with his audience. I'm seeing that folks want more sound bytes, not thesis style content.
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
Sheryl / Ken - I disagree with you there. Audience is everything. That audience may be on Youtube, twitter or Friendfeed or blogs as Ken said, but ithout an audience (it can be a niche one) who are you leading? Where I'd disagree with Ken is that these are not the Platform these are only the medium. Previously in peer-reviewed journals the fact that a certain had to be reached to be...
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- Anton Mannering
A question, will you still do longer post and if so won't that be a blog, or is a blog only a blog if you call it a blog.
- Kim Landwehr
But If I'm interested in Robert Scoble or Jesse Stay and I follow them, they should be able to monetize their energies and thoughts by way of their blogs. If all of their energies are on FriendFeed or Twitter or Facebook, its only pimping those services and putting money in their pockets
- Stephen Pickering
I launched a new blog http://susanbeebe.com on 5/11/2009 and within only a matter of 2 weeks my blog was appearing on page 1 of my vanity search results on Google. Blogs are really fabulous for personal branding and what I call "personal real estate" on the web.
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
Susan, I agree, my blog was only born in March or so
- Stephen Pickering
Some jewish guy once said "Do not hide your light under a bushel" Thought leaders who don't influence the world by doing or evangelising are just theorists who affect little.
- Anton Mannering
TylerGullies- regarding issue reading FF on iPhone - use a FF client like the BuddyFeed app (no scrolling, etc)
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
And Blogs are so much more flexible. I still think these other services are ancillary, valuable of course but not a hub
- Stephen Pickering
Anton: Hey! :) Thought leader doesn't necessarily imply you lead anyone but rather have thoughts that are unique and have potential to inspire. Having a blog will not make us so. Having a platform might, even if someone else is better. Example: Ken is brilliant. You know it, I know it, and he has been blogging longer than the vast majority of internet users. He comes up with amazing...
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- Sheryl
Yes you can be a thought leader without a blog or even be in public, its just a matter of scope of audience. You can be a Thought Leader within a Company, a department, within a community, etc. Believe or not, most people never heard of the people on these lists. So these are just Thought Leaders in areas that interest people that read Blogs, Tweets, Social Media or Tech.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
But if you are a thought leader don't you want to monetize it?
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: I know some thought leaders who do it because they just want to be seen as the expert in that field.
- Robert Scoble
Google monetizes, Facebook monetizes, Twitter and Friendfeed certainly plan to, so what's wrong with an individual?
- Stephen Pickering
Hmm.. I disagree with you here Ken. I think that's 'Old Media' thinking. If I went on TV to speak about particle Physics everyone (especially particle phycicists) would be like "who the hell is this guy?". But the fact that I was on TV would give me a platform of a kind as people assume that the TV station checked me out. With new media there is no-one to check credentials so the only...
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- Anton Mannering
think most true thought leaders find money to be a horrible metric. I know several now vested and moderately rich start up CEO's who are still frustrated because their ideas didn't get to be as big or as impactful as they want. Money is a horrible metric: just look at the rich CEO of AIG..thought leader? Smart?
- James Watters
I bet Malcom Gladwell doesn't consider money a horrible metric
- Stephen Pickering
Hey Sheryl. :) I disagree (I know you're shocked lol). YOu can't be a thought leader unless you're leading. And you can't be a leader without followers. There's nothing wrong with being brilliant and not being followed not all thinkers are leaders. Sometimes one mans great ideas aren't recognised until a leader picks them up and champions them.
- Anton Mannering
Anton Particle physics is dead. We have strings now!
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen - See I told you the physicists would be horrified. :)
- Anton Mannering
Robert there are some out there that have others blog FOR them so they can be seen as thought leaders in their field. ;)
- Jim Turner
The determinists were horrified by Einstein's findings and Einsteins was horrified by Quantum Mechanics. We need horrified physicists!
- Stephen Pickering
Anton I am not shocked at all and I'm honored to even be involved in this discussion. Now, having sucked up, (was that a 'leading' statement?) I would say to you, I believe you're misinterpreting the word leader here. To be a leader you need only have the potential to influence, not that you have actually done it. It's about original ideas and thoughts, content if you will. Many people...
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- Sheryl
Ken - That my friend is exactly my point. Those credentials that you build over time... that is the platform! Everything else, as you said, is a stupid network, a collection of tools.
- Anton Mannering
And Einstein was just a lowly patent clerk
- Stephen Pickering
No serious thinkers or CEO types I know read Malcom; he is considered 'pop'
- James Watters
Depends on the context I suppose. I don't think there is any arguing that Jack Welch (@jackwelch) is a thought leader. A notable early trait was his resistance from using a computer.
- Rick Bucich
LOIC seems to like him :)
- Stephen Pickering
I don't consider Welch a thought leader. He was an executer. Peter Drucker was the thought leader behind GE's massive resurgence
- Stephen Pickering
Thought leadership is subjective. Case in point, what Rick above me said. I have no idea who Jack Welch is. He is not a thought leader to me, and yet he may be incredibly bright and articulate. That I have never heard of him doesn't make him less a thought leader. Only means he has his own niche.
- Sheryl
Sheryl: Jack Welch ran GE for years and is widely seen as one of the best executives ever.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen #ironic given the Loic discussion today :) Interesting that the other day Jack Welch said a dog could have run GE in the 90's because of positive macro trends; most company performance is due to industry trend
- James Watters
That was him being modest. All the greatest are modest, Buffett, Sam Walton
- Stephen Pickering
Ken, I was just thinking about Van Gogh in terms of this. What about the visionaries who are tragically 50 years a head of their time. Van Gogh could have blogged until his face turned blue. He was not going to be accepted and that is just the truth. He knew it, so he became a "do-leader" I guess you could say, and focused on being a prolific creator.
- E-Advocate Network
Robert: it doesn't change my opinion that you've explained who he is. He may be a thought leader to you, but to me he is just a man on the street. Does that makes sense? Now...if I met him...and he said something that made my ears perk up, I would likely think differently. In the meantime, anyone may be a thought leader in their own circle. That one person has a big audience takes nothing from those who haven't got one.
- Sheryl
Emily Dickinson never published a poem in her lifetime
- Stephen Pickering
E-Advocate Network: Funny because that was exactly what Ken said to me before he wrote that down about Van Gogh! :)
- Sheryl
Ken - No he wasn't. He was a brilliant man whose genius was only recognised after his death. Which inspired the expressionist movement in Germany. The leadership was not his though. In fact Nietzche had as much to do with that as anyone.
- Anton Mannering
Ken - Picasso though was a thought leader par excellence
- Anton Mannering
Too much invested in the concept of thought-leadership. I'm just happy to be participating in conversations about what I consider to be relevant thoughts and theories. It is first and foremost about context. I think this is a perfect case in point.
- Jerry Schuman
You can be a thought leader via voice.... but more people will find you if you blog about what you talk about on-air and in podcasts.
- Lisa Osborne
Scoble is the catalyst for this. I know I kiss ass, but its true, none of the other "important people" as Guy Kawasaki terms them engages us everyday folk like Scoble does. Why is that? He's as busy as the others
- Stephen Pickering
Jerry: ^5 I couldn't agree more!
- Sheryl
Lisa: I agree with you. I do a weekly podcast and I write a blurb about it. I also write the occasional blog post. Still, many people come to my site via search.
- Sheryl
Yes, oh I'm not dissing Guy, I love Guy, Tim O'reilly, Leo, and all the rest
- Stephen Pickering
E-advocate/Sheryl - Unfortunately if you're too far ahead of your time you're not a leader. It's tragic and horrible but there you are. The Country of the Blind by H.G. Wells is a cautionary metaphor.
- Anton Mannering
Anton,and I have the scars to prove it.
- Jerry Schuman
Anton: I love you! :) I don't think we're that far apart with thought's not really, I just think we have some minor differences ;-)
- Sheryl
Does YouTube count as a blog? I think any form of user generated content can allow a person to step into an audience and be a thought leader. A blog is just a mechanism. I'm not talking about replacing a hammer with a saw either. I think there are plenty of mechanisms to get in front of an audience and we're likely to see many, many more.
- Dave Saunders
Ken - Guy is an interesting case. Do you not listen to him because of the tools he uses or because you feel he has "worn out his credentials" so to speak?
- Anton Mannering
No, I think he was just asking
- Stephen Pickering
Ken: I don't mean to pry and I meant only in general terms. You response though indicates to me that you don't trust the messenger.
- Anton Mannering
Sheryl: Oh no, I was caught yapping away about academics and artists. Anton: Agreed on Picasso- he achieved fame while alive. He was outstanding and much more articulate than Van Gogh. He had a slight edge- being "avant guarde" was somewhat interesting to the art world at the time. It still required heavy lifting for acceptance and Picasso had that brilliance. Other artists before him had to crack the academies.
- E-Advocate Network
A blog or some other long-form, semi-permanent body of work that belongs to you I believe is required to be a "thought-leader". As both a producer and consumer, I think this will become even more important as information flow gets more fragmented, higher volume, and unfortunately, lower quality. FF, Twitter, et al are great for finding thought leaders and getting bits of insight but at the end of the day, real value comes from a smart person putting hours/days into a robust article/blog/essay.
- David Ziembicki
Ken: It goes to my point earlier about the platform being the trust you have for the person not the particular tool they uses to transmit the message. Basically to me Platform = "The reason I listen to you". In the old days a soap box was used as a literal platform, and was used to "stand out from the crowd" and the crowd paid attention because you were higher up. As things developed the "platform" became more figurative. For instance a politicians "platform" is the fact he was elected.
- Anton Mannering
Anton: The politician being elected may not be elected at all but they may have bought their way into office quite nicely ;-)
- Sheryl
Michel De Montaigne became a thought leader without a blog. As did Adam Smith and Emile Durkheim!
- Mark
Sheryl: That can happen. I would suggest though that in that case his legitimacy is questionsed and his "platform" becomes somewhat eroded. Everyone will start to question everything he does much more. :-)
- Anton Mannering
Ken: I'm not so sure we are totally aligned here, but I'll be writing a blog post pulling together all my thoughts on this and you can call around and berate me if you think I'm wrong. LOL ;-)
- Anton Mannering
Anton: In art that may be hard to find now. We expect it to be wierd, finally. For this discussion, an interesting question may be are there any thought leaders to whom a blog might greatly alter your perception of them?
- E-Advocate Network
E-advocate - I agree somewhat re Art, but perhaps people are looking in the wrong place. Regarding your question: I don't think so. It would depend what was in the blog posts. If they continue the same quality using a different tool then great.
- Anton Mannering
@Robert, being a thought leader has nothing to do with writing a blog or not. It is a label put on you by others. It does imply you need to express and interact over your thoughts very frequently, but that can be done anywhere. Given the broadcasting and interaction possibilities on Twitter and Friendfeed you would be heard faster there. I know from experience that writing long,...
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- Alexander van Elsas
BTW on the general topic here neither Jeremy or Robert are thought leaders but the guys they talk to every day are.
- Anton Mannering
Steve: that isn't what I asked, though.
- Robert Scoble
Twitter and FriendFeed would be perfect for: Thought leaders in mathmatics, computer science or a similar field who can write a technical journal that revolutionizes their field, but just can not dumb down what they do and have never been good writers anyway.
- E-Advocate Network
Hey, I have a blog, but whenever I try to do Thought leadership, Scoble slaps me down... then again, I usually deserve it...
- The Web's Wendell Wittler
A great Twitter stream belongs the head of Warchild. She can rarely give away her location, let alone blog as she in war zones most of the time. She is a thought leader and we would never know her experiences if it was not for short form. For some it is not choice but the only way.
- E-Advocate Network
Thought leadership is innovative thinking - this can be done in a narrative way on a blog, a visual way on video, and short succinct way here on FF/Twitter ... now thinking of it I think thought leadership is almost obsolete -- give our ability to crowd source ideas. I think the should be "pattern recognizer" or "synthesizer" or "insight spinner" or whatever ..
- Beth Kanter
I misread this and thought you wrote, "Can you be a thought leader without a DOG?" Now that would be an interesting question too.
- Amy℠
Actually you can be one thought leader that spread the idea of being a thought leader that don't uses a blog, you just have to show how
- Felipe Lopes
absolutely
- Patricia
Blog does not equal thought leader. In today's age, a blog is becoming one tool to present ideas and interact with others.
- Ted Kinzer
Thought Leaders need media to spread their thoughts, share ideas- its not necessary they need to have blog.. look for yourself you will find numerous examples of them..
- Saravanan
Of course, but if you are a thought leader, a blog is a good place to share your thoughts.
- Francine Hardaway
If you have a good thought dropping it into the right pond where the other fishies will munch on it and spit it back out would lead me to believe that FF with some heavy hitters subscribed to your feed. Not too many folks read my blog per google analytics but I like doing it so I do much like my aggregating things here.
- Mathew A. Koeneker
You can certainly be a thought leader without a blog, IMHO. To say otherwise is to assume that all thought leadership must necessarily be only pertinent to the subset of populations that are connected to the Internet and that understand how to communicate using social media tools. I don't think anyone could credibly argue that all thought leadership is that narrowly constrained. That said, it certainly can't HURT.
- Scotty Perkins
To be a Thought Leader you must have a) Original Ideas that are b) Somehow Disseminated, either c) Directly or through Credible Intermediaries to a d) Large Following and e) Sustained through Practice. and f) Influence Social/Governmental Decisions. So the First Critical Link is (b) .Today, dissemination of ideas occurs mainly through broadcast or dead-tree media. Increasingly, the...
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- Murli Nagasundaram
wow, you got to F), thats a heavy duty list.
- James Watters
Holy crap, this thread proves my point. How could these many comments from everyone prove that Robert is being a thought leader. Robert, I can barely hear your voice in here. Case in point. Case closed.
- Jeremiah Owyang
Robert, I wrote this for you: http://www.web-strategist.com/blog...
- Jeremiah Owyang
I responded my own thoughts in the comments of Jeremiah's post. I've got a blog post in the making I think, too - still putting together my thoughts on this.
- Jesse Stay
Isn't friendfeed a form of microblogging?
- Khürt Williams
I would say that FriendFeed is more of social discussion platform then microblogging.
- Usman Bashir
Yeah, maybe, as social medias rule.. but a blog is an important item in the whole system. ;)
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
Of course, you can. Being a thought leader means contributing original ideas that affect the way people think. You don't need a blog to do that.
- Leslie Carbone
A media is required to express the thinking - thus 'thought leaders' actually 'do' rather than 'think' because without a medium, there is nothing to exchange. The issue about having a blog or not is meaningless - the choice of medium today is based upon it's ability to spread an expression, not an idea - and that means reproduction. Anything digital is reproducible - an expression...
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- zeroinfluencer
"Can you be a thought leader without a blog?" Yes.
- Greg J. Smith
Leaders are nothing, without people to help/to 'give directions' to. Blogs -and- other (social) medias are tools for them to do so.
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
from email
Which came first, thought leaders or blogs? Did thought leaders exist before the internet? Can you name one modern thought leader that doesn't have a blog? Not all thought leaders are good at spreading their thoughts to the masses, but they are smart enough to surround themselves with those that are (or perhaps they just attract them). Not every "thought leader" is a spring. Some are...
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- April
April, yes - this is the difference between Synthesizers and Generators. The reality is that we are all 'thought directors'.
- zeroinfluencer
Yes. In this age of collective thought, leaders are able to ask the right questions and engage people in insightful dialogue. Maybe we just need a feature or method for dialogue/thought leaders to synthesize threaded discussions like these in order to capture knowledge.
- Steve Levin
I think you're over thinking it
- Jesse Hattabaugh
Part of the issue is "thought leader" is community dependent. In order to be perceived as a thought leader, you have to be visible in the tools that that community uses. For example, I have been blogging much less since starting to use FriendFeed and Twitter, which connects me to one community, but disconnects me from my still large blog reader community. I tweeted and FriendFeeded a...
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- Richard Akerman
What i need is someone who wraps discussions like this up ;-) Otherwise: to many thoughts to follow!
- erwin blom
Great thoughts ... from non-bloggers : http://www.stanford.edu/~somik...
- Meryl Steinberg
Wrap.
- Jay Collier
Late to the discussion, but will answer anyway since I'm egocentric enough to think you'll be interested in my response. Yes, you can be a thought leader w/o a blog, Robert. You'd be a thought leader if you were standing on a street corner discussing English Muffins. It's who you are, not the medium you choose to express yourself with. However, as I'm proving by this long response,...
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- Molly
Robert -- you're a thought leader in your respective medium. So no matter the tool you use, they'll follow you. So yes, you can be a thought leader with out a blog. Once you're an influencer people will watch your every move. Especially since the area in which you're a thought leader is the interactive space. We look to you for guidance. Now if you walked the public streets here in...
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- Ramsey Mohsen
Yes you can. There were thought leaders before the era of blogs. Being influential is medium-independent.
- Volkan Özçelik
Wow- Sorry if I repeat anything as I am tired and couldn't read everything posted before me.... YES, you can be a thought leader without a blog, but you do need to express long-form thoughts. Nobody will ever be a thought leader through Twitter, Friendfeed, or even Facebook (unless it is completely open). Twitter and Friendfeed, as we have all mostly agreed, continue the conversation,...
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- Daniel Zarick
Google Gives Presentation On Search Engine Optimization: http://searchengineland.com/google-... #nptech #ff #seo (via http://friendfeed.com/jcolman...)
Beth Kanter, Laura Norvig and Eric Johnson liked this
A presentation by Google specifically aimed at nonprofits. We usually take organic/natural search engine traffic for granted, but it's something that can be measured, tested and optimized just as much as paid search advertising, social media, e-mail, etc. Enjoy!
- Jonathon Colman
Interesting analysis of Twitter's Suggested User List, which @timoreilly objects to in comments: http://twittercism.com/suggest...
Iván Abrego, Rui Pereira, polou/indigo_bow and 59 other people liked this
Scoble, do you feel you're should have been on that featured twitter users list? Or do you feel you deserve a time on it?
- Doubledown_inSL
Interesting. But how did the people on SUL get there on the first place?
- Alex M.
Well said Robert.
- Leo Laporte
Newt Gingrich?? Why *is* Newt Gingrich on the SUL?
- RobinDotNet
I would think having Newt Gingrich on the list would invalidate the entire list. I mean, really.
- RobinDotNet
Doubledown_inSL: I don't want to be on any default list by a platform vendor that I didn't earn my way onto and that YOU can't earn your way onto it either. This is not a meritocracy. It's a royalty system. One that picks stars and gifts them huge audiences.
- Robert Scoble
Ahmed: Twitter picked their favorite people and removed anyone that they saw as a threat to their future business model. Me for talking about friendfeed too much. Leo for complaining about the name. Calacanis for being a pimp. Kawasaki for being too obvious about building his business (Alltop) on top of it. Shall I go on?
- Robert Scoble
Doubledown_inSL: you need to take a look at the original conversation if you haven't already... http://ff.im/4iPSZ
- travispuk
Robert: I see
- Alex M.
reminds me of way clubs in NYC let people in #1.Star Power (BIG NAME), #2 Beauty #3 Wealth
- courtney benson
one thing would be interesting to map - how many of the people on the list have ties to kevin rose... i am betting some interesting trends would show up.
- Allen Stern
Courtney: You forgot women to men ratio! ;)
- travispuk
Travis, right!
- courtney benson
Allen: Leo and I both have ties to Kevin Rose and aren't on the list.
- Robert Scoble
Media has always been star-driven... so one of the measures of success of any star-maker is the editorial judgment and wisdom of their anointed ones. Same in Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Nashville, Bollywood... print, radio, tv, movies... it's inescapable... and, Robert, no matter whose list you do or don;t make it onto, you are already a MAJOR star ;-)
- Fred Davis
robert - im talking about "in his posse" - justine is(was?), gary, etc. it's something that I've wondered about for a while.
- Allen Stern
It's the Web 2.0 Mafia ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Fred: thank you (for those who don't know, Fred is one of the co-founders of Wired Magazine and a star in his own right). But I wasn't gifted my "stardom" by a media platform. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
Fred, agreed that Robert is top notch but so is Leo, Guy and Jason as well as Kevin
- courtney benson
Allen: if you said it's "San Francisco gadflys" or "insiders" then I think you're correct. It's just that Kevin is one that's very visible in that circle. Funny, Howard Lindzen and Jeff Pulver and Fred Wilson are investors in Twitter and they aren't on it. I think all three of them deserve it too. I wonder why they aren't gifted a spot?
- Robert Scoble
Robert: surely having investors on the SUL would be a little too inbred, even for twitter?
- travispuk
Travis: probably. I sure would love to see the thinking that goes on behind the scenes when they decide this list. By the way, I've heard from someone close to the Twitter team that complaining about the list gets you added to a black list where you never will get onto it. Which, funny enough, freed me to complain even more. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I guess it would be a little liberating knowing that technically you could not offend them more than you already have. ;)
- travispuk
Dave Winer is very quiet tonight.
- Mark
Mark: I think he's traveling.
- Robert Scoble
I do like his posts. I wish Dave contributed more on Friendfeed though. I think he is a little reluctant because he doesn't want to evangelise FF at all. He isn't interested in getting people from twitter to here, he considers that FF's problem and not something he should freely help towards. I suppose he is the opposite of you Scoble in that regard.
- Mark
wow, I met Steve Johnson recently @MarketingProfs B2B and I did not connect his real life self with the Twitter suggested list :D
- Valeria Maltoni
also, looks like the editors at People magazine picked who they put on the list :)
- Valeria Maltoni
I swear I typed that before I saw People magazine on the list!
- Valeria Maltoni
Robert, I think you're engaging in one of the oldest forms of media self-promotion here: attacking others as a way of drawing attention to yourself. I like you a lot and you're generally very positive. But when you start claiming that twitter "took you off the list" because you promote Friendfeed too much, I think you're playing the same kind of media game that led talk radio and its ilk astray. It doesn't speak well of you.
- Tim O'Reilly
I wondering if there has been anything showing whether being on the SUL effects a business bottom line, if it does or starts to I definitely can see a problem.
- Kim Landwehr
Just guessing but I find it really hard to believe that half the "stars" on the SUL actually write their own tweets. Betting it is all run by a bunch of PR flacks.
- Dave Hodson
Tim: you keep making this about me but I am far from the only one hurt by this list. But you are right and it demonstrates just how many strings are attached here even for people who are not on the list. We can't even discuss the list and how anti-community and how it sets up a corruptible system without looking like a selfish jerk. But you forgot one thing: I will not accept a spot on...
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- Robert Scoble
Tim: but I have written my last word on this. You are right that it serves me no good to talk about this and waste my energy on it. It's just shocking to me that you are defending something that isn't a meritocracy. I was expecting you to be the first one to decry this system of royalty and corruptible systems. The fact that you're all for it and, worse, saying I'm doing this just for self promotion, makes me sad. Really sad.
- Robert Scoble
You are out of order O'Reilly.
- Mark
Robert, you definitely earned your "stardom" but don't forget you also had a helpful platform as a Microsoft house blogger.
- Michael Markman
Thats a pretty weak point, Michael.
- Mark
Michael: and for that I had to interview and win my job (which wasn't easy). Also I had thousands of readers per day BEFORE getting that job and being a Microsoft employee didn't get me on a default list that was included in a platform service. I also didn't get an unfair advantage against other Microsoft employees and Bill Gates didn't "pick" the winners -- the marketplace did (when I...
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- Robert Scoble
Speaking as a non-celebrity looking in: I'm really bugged by this whole thing. First of all, Robert, I didn't need a SUL to follow you. Or Leo or Tim or iJustine or TechCrunch or anyone else on my list. The SUL means nothing to me. I never even looked into it ( I've been on twitter since 2006 way before the SUL was in place) until this whole SUL scandal started coming up. I understand...
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- Lise
Obviously the SUL is a bad idea all around, or at least the way it is implemented. I can see why they want it; most likely to help with retention of new users. Most people sign up and have no idea what to do. Unfortunately it puts Twitter, those on the SUL, and the people who point out what a poor system it is in a bad spot. There is no way Twitter can say they would be fair and...
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- W_B_K
Robert, hey, I know you weren't gifted your stardom, you earned it by being RELENTLESS about doing your thing, and doing it in public forums (whatever the forum), i.e.: sharing!!!
- Fred Davis
I think, ideally, SUL's would be personalized, based on your interests, your profile(s), your friends, FOF's, etc. We'd all get a different one, that was (hopefully) more tailored to each of us. The web is about micromedia, and the one-SUL-fits-all approach is so mass media that it doesn't fit in very well... as this whole discussion (and the many others on the SUL topic) underscore.
- Fred Davis
Fred: I agree and its a great point. This is almost what Facebook and LinkedIn do to recommend connections.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
I thought LinkedIn had a similar issue a few years ago with the number of connections and they capped the visible connections at 500 and evened the playing field. I like that approach. But it seems that acquiring twitter followers is baked into the twitter dna and they would never create a visible cap at 500.
- Jim Posner
Robert, I love you to death man, but why do you waste so much time and energy on this topic? I certainly don't care who is on the list, it just doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Make you own SUL if you feel others deserve to be heard, you have the webspace and the star power to do it, so just do it. Big hug dude.
- Rob Fahrni
Fred: I'd love a system like that. Sort of like Alltop or WeFollow.com. That would have been the right thing to do. Jim: exactly. Lise: there is a disconnect between those who do this as a business and those who do it just for fun. Audience size means money. Let me know how you feel when someone at work gets a huge raise without deserving it/earning it (especially worse if you've been...
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- Robert Scoble
Rob: I do have my own SUL. It's http://www.friendfeed.com/scoblei... and everyone on it earns their way on it every day by posting great content.
- Robert Scoble
So all those sales people and "MAKE MONEY WITH TWITTER" people -- do they make money off of me if I don't follow them back?
- RobinDotNet
I like what Fred said. It really would enhance the service. Tumblr has the right approach, at least in part, on the micro-level with Tumblarity. Each user has their own benchmark. In terms of twitter's SUL, it's fine, there's nothing wrong with it. Twitter is a business. The SUL is one method they use to promote their brand. There's a level of inherent familiarity built into the brand...
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- Benjamin Taylor
PS It's great to see the hulk back, in solidarity.
- Benjamin Taylor
So if there was a revolt and nobody followed people on the SUL who they thought should not be on the SUL, would Twitter leave them on the SUL? If you don't follow someone because they are on the SUL, is that as bad as following them because they are? (Did that make any sense, or did I not get enough sleep last night?)
- RobinDotNet
Exactly Robert, you work your butt off, and I appreciate you for what you bring to the table. I guess being a z-lister, like myself, leaves me on the outside of understanding why this is such a hot topic? Does this really boil down to money? I'm not trying to be an ass here, I truly don't get why it's so important?
- Rob Fahrni
Isn't it kind of like going to google and searching for something, and the first links that show up are the ones that people have paid google money to give them precedence, and they might not even necessarily be the best search result?
- RobinDotNet
Chris, nicely put.
- Rob Fahrni
Benjamin: you don't want to see me when I'm angry! Rob Fahrni: absolutely it's about money. And sex. And influence. And other kinds of measuring I won't mention here. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Rob Fahrni: but mostly it's about building a platform that is a meritocracy. I'm an American. I don't like royalty based systems. If you can't earn your way onto this list I don't want any part of it.
- Robert Scoble
Oh Robert, you're killin me man!
- Rob Fahrni
Rob Fahrni: I'm in a good mood. Peter Himmelman is rocking! http://peterhimmelman.com/furious... Come join us, more fun than debating stupid lists.
- Robert Scoble
Then Google isn't an exact model, because it IS a meritocracy, even though it's based on cash.
- RobinDotNet
Robin: I've never paid to be on Google. So far Google is a pretty darn good example of a good platform vendor that lets the marketplace decide winners and losers.
- Robert Scoble
Don't they have paid links that take precedence? I guess the diff is that though they might have that (and I don't know that they do for sure), they also show everybody else that fits the search criteria.
- RobinDotNet
Robin: absolutely not. The paid links were always separate on Google and never were mixed in with the free ones.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I meant killin me in a good way, I'm grinning ear-to-ear. I see your point but doesn't all this attention, even negative attention, just add to the popularity of the thing you despise? You're one of the good guys Robert, don't let this drag you down. I think this is great fodder for a very long essay on Scobleizer.
- Rob Fahrni
Got it. That's good to know. So the links that best meet the search criteria are on the top. Hmmm. Sounds like meritocracy to me. You're right, not like Twitter's SUL.
- RobinDotNet
derikp: if my son is better at playing soccer and isn't chosen I'd certainly go and talk to the coach and plead his case. But we're not talking about soccer and anyway I'm done discussing this. Onward. I'm glad there are so many people who like royalty based systems and don't understand why meritocracies are important to defend. I guess that's how we end up with countries like Iran and China. Sigh.
- Robert Scoble
Why should there be a list at all? Follow people that interest you. You make twitter what it is.
- Ryan Gerritsen
Bill: You can not like the SUL and still use Twitter. Apples and oranges. I don't like many of the people who live in my town, yet I still live here and like the town.
- Curt Mercadante
oh when will lame twitter SUL get corrected?! *sigh*
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
And, by the way, it seems like the SUL is being used like the same "mass follower" tools that the Twitter folks are seeking to diminish by killing the accounts of those who use them.
- Curt Mercadante
Reason I still use Twitter, I still get more responses from my Tweets than in FF. Yet I tend to be more engaged in FF these days but I think the FF celebs usually spark the most engaging threads and the rest of us are trying to get that engagement from our posts.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
manielse: there's no audience more engaged than one you build yourself by being of service to them. It's tough work and I'll be watching and engaging!
- Robert Scoble
Sorry I wasn't complaining, just saying many of us built that in Twitter and find it a little tougher to get traction on FriendFeed with our posts. I think tools like WeFollow, Twellow (and even #followfriday) help build relevant audiences easier. You can even argue that SUL is even a good starting place for n00bs.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
manielse: yeah, the eco system that's built up around Twitter is quite powerful. On the other hand here all you need to do is follow someone active and they bring other people into your view (every time I click "like" or comment on someone's items I push those items into your view, for instance) so finding new people to follow here is much nicer and much less of a competition. Plus you find new voices that aren't on any list a lot faster here, I've found.
- Robert Scoble
Manielse, ditto Robert S
- Myrna
Maybe they could reward early twitter users with a day on the list for every month on twitter before 08. If new social networks would promise props in the future I could live without twitter.
- Greg Birch
Although the SUL is obviously distorting of the natural community growth of Twitter, and does not really fulfill the functions @Ev and @Biz intended, "power users" not on the SUL who criticize it should know: they sound really vain, chippy, and silly.
- Jason Pontin
I don't care who is on the Twitter SUL, and I pay no attention to it. I look for the Twitter feeds that are most interesting to me -- they are not difficult to find, with a bit of searching. I don't understand the preoccupation with that list -- like everything on the Internet, it is simple to route around or ignore entirely.
- Sean McBride
Jason: we know that. If I lived in fear of looking vain, chippy, or silly, I'd just stay off the Internet! :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I do not know you or Tim but I do follow and have great respect for you both. IMHO (I am an amateur when compared to you guys), Tim was not saying that he supports the SUL. Do I agree with his comment? Nope. Do I like the SUL? No. But it does happen that if you criticise a list while you mention that you have not been included it can sound like you are "jealous" even if you are not and you do have good reasons for not liking the list... so this can be a tricky one!
- Pablo Melchor
Really, the personalized way is the only good way... I mean, sheesh, Twitter recommends people like Ashlee Simpson to me, ferchrissakes! So most of the people on the SUL are a total waste for me, and I suppose for most people, when you get right down to it... if I had some $ to burn I'd get some outside research firm like Insight Express to scope out how the SUL is actually viewed,...
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- Fred Davis
I still think most people find suggested users through word-of-mouth and their own social circles. That's the only way to get the people you really want to follow based on your interests. I've also found that using hashtags properly will get the kind of users you want to follow to you before you get to them.
- Fleagle
I am tracking people on Twitter's SUL like @timoreilly. They can't get people to follow them on Facebook or FriendFeed. Here's analysis:
Steffan Antonas, LouCypher, Andreas Edler and 67 other people liked this
Tim has 617,000 followers on Twitter -- almost all gained because he is on the suggested user list. But he only has 10,000 followers on FriendFeed. TechCrunch has almost the same pattern. Why is this?
- Robert Scoble
They can't get people to follow them because the people who added them are not really listening and impressionable.
- Louis Gray
You have to be engaged and interactive to have influence.
- Louis Gray
It's what I was hinting at this morning. Most of the users on Twitter don't actually take action or DO anything. They aren't followers. They aren't listening. They aren't engaged. So these audiences can't be transfered anywhere else.
- Robert Scoble
Twitter is Revolution! Yay Twitter!
- Steven E. Streight
This is Twitter's true lock in.
- Robert Scoble
Could it also be that they never talk about Friendfeed or Facebook while on Twitter and therefore no one knows that they're actually here?
- Kenton
Yeah, Twitter has turned into more micro-rss for me versus conversational.
- Tony
Why would any freedom loving person NOT have a green avatar?
- Steven E. Streight
617,000, but how many of those are active users? I'd imagine 50% or more are one time users, dead accounts
- sean percival
It's all about narcissism for most people unfortunately.
- Steven E. Streight
It's impossible for anybody to have 617,000 followers on Friendfeed, because that's about double the active network size. ;)
- Shéa Bennett
LOL
- Steven E. Streight
Shea: very funny!
- Robert Scoble
Kenton, That's it for me. I follow Tim on Twitter, actually find him very engaged there, but didn't automatically assume he was on FB and FF. Now I will
- Francine Hardaway
I hate FaceBook
- Steven E. Streight
also the chance of someone responding on a sul is higher on friendfeed that is on twitter
- Kashif Khan
Shea: the problem with your thesis is that it holds true on Facebook. I have more fans there than TechCrunch does.
- Robert Scoble
Also, if you only ever re-tweet instead of putting up original content your followers are going to tend to be more passive.
- Kenton
how about them dopey Positive Affirmation tweeters? Ugh!
- Steven E. Streight
If I want inspirational quotes, I'll open a Bible thank you.
- Steven E. Streight
Kenton: that's true too, but TechCrunch puts up original content and he has fewer followers on Facebook than I do (and I post almost NOTHING on Facebook).
- Robert Scoble
This is the very basic definition of following, you don't act, you follow. If you want to engage people, you need a community, which twitter can help you to manage but won't do for you. @loic can make many people do something, he has influence, because he built a community, not because he has followers.
- Jonathan Belgourari
Jonathan: yup and Guy Kawasaki has a lot more influence than I do and he neither is on Twitter's SUL and he doesn't even write all his own Tweets (he admits he has a team writing them).
- Robert Scoble
if you have a lot of followers interaction is very limited. You miss out on so much when you hit the refresh page when you have followers . Im guessing after many attempts of trying to communicate and not receiving anything back ppl quit
- Kashif Khan
Jonathan: I call that a "reader" or a "consumer" then, not a follower. Followers do what you ask them to do. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Went and looked for him on FB. Not even a photo? Does he hang out there?
- Francine Hardaway
on a much smaller scale I've looked at overlaps between my twitter (3000) fb (900) ff (800); there seems to be about 300 people who are common to all three, the rest choose where and how to interact with me. I tend to think of the 300 as my "digital dunbar number".
- JP Rangaswami
Kashif: I interact here with almost everyone and I have 42,000 followers here.
- Robert Scoble
good point Robert, I don't really consider Facebook a place to go for information like that so I had only really considered Friendfeed.
- Kenton
Twitter is a different medium to the others, Robert. It's a lot less of a commitment to follow somebody on that network. FF has a relatively tiny user base so a comparison there is apples and oranges. Facebook for the majority is still less about following *anybody* and more about following people you know and trust. Why? Because you're giving away a lot of yourself each time you add...
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- Shéa Bennett
Alex: heheh. I'm not the only insane one.
- Robert Scoble
but where is interacting easier , twitter or friendfeed ?
- Kashif Khan
Shea: the truth about Twitter is that many people check it out for a few minutes and then never return to the service. Or if they do return, they do so very sporadically. Over here or on Facebook the audiences are much more engaged.
- Robert Scoble
imagine having to track this same conversation using twitters web interface and not having tweetdeck or seismic to help you out
- Kashif Khan
Robert: I keep hearing that but I'm very engaged with my network. And I regularly remove the people who I feel don't make any kind of an effort. It's all about keeping things relative.
- Shéa Bennett
Shea: the other truth about the Suggested User List is these are not organic followers. They are people who opened an account and clicked "add all the suggested users." Before Tim and Mashable and TechCrunch were added to that list I had more followers on Twitter. So did Leo Laporte. So did Guy Kawasaki. So, most of those newer followers that Tim and Mike got by being on the SUL aren't strong followers. That's why they aren't very engaged.
- Robert Scoble
I agree re: Twitter - they check it out and then leave - the follow and forget methodology. I guess the real measure of how interactive his followers are would be to request that they do something (click a link, etc.) In reality, if he got 1/10 of 1% to do anything, I'd be impressed.
- Jeff Pomeroy
You also have to remember that the majority of FB's 200 million users are non-techy people, many of whom see FB *as* the internet, not just a product of it. I think Twitter's audience is maturer (in terms of average age, as well as content) and less interesting in bells and whistles (videos, music etc).
- Shéa Bennett
Jeff: what got Twitter to be so cool is engagedment USED to be a lot higher than 1/10th of 1% for everyone. Now it has gone down.
- Robert Scoble
I have no disagreement at all about the SUL. I've written several articles about it on Twittercism. It needs to be scrapped or totally revamped. And yeah, a lot of the followers folk get from being on the SUL are very casual users, assuming they return at all.
- Shéa Bennett
Shea: I totally disagree with that thesis. I did a survey of 600 Web innovators, influencers, and press. About 85% are on all three social networks (Twitter, Friendfeed, Facebook). And many of those are participating more on Facebook than on Twitter lately. Why is that?
- Robert Scoble
Alex: I blocked spymaster. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Maybe they are participating on Facebook more because they can truly control who sees what when they have their discussions. Twitter allows a lot of 'noise' to occur from unknown followers when these people are trying to communicate amongst themselves. Maybe Facebook or Friendfeed is just the better medium for those types of interactions.
- Jeff Pomeroy
Robert: Which thesis? Blasted Friendfeed and its lack of threaded comments. ;)
- Shéa Bennett
even on FB its easier to track conversations
- Kashif Khan
As for why your list are involved more on FB than Twitter, I have no idea. But 600 from either network is still a very small sample. I'm confused how these folk are actually "participating" on FB, too. Specifically, what does that word mean on that network? What do they do? My experience is that over half of my followers go ballistic if I update my status on FB more than about 15-20 times per day. And I'm *very* selective to make sure it's only the good stuff. :)
- Shéa Bennett
It is personality vs brand. You Robert, Jason Calacanis, Leo Lapporte, are personalities before brand. We talk to you as real people. O'riley is brand before personality. We are not used to talking back to a brand unless we're miffed about something. It is just not normal. For instance today when you asked my question at the #hpreveal thing it cought them off guard and totally blew me...
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- Ron Hudson
Ron: good point. The real answer is that Twitter totally messed with the system by choosing its own "stars" instead of letting the real stars organically bubble up to the top. Since O'Reilly and Arrington are "chosen stars" their followers aren't strong followers like the ones that they got organically. Even Arrington admits this in analysis.
- Robert Scoble
I totally agree with Ron about that. That's what I love about FF and Twitter - it's the first time that we've had anything like a level playing field for discourse. And the ones who don't engage now stand out like sore thumbs.
- Shéa Bennett
I always love it when somebody has 40,000 followers but is following 40 people. What a waste. Why even engage? You, Robert have almost as many followers as followees.
- Curt Mercadante
for me it seems that given his lopsided ratio, it gives the impression that he is not truly interactive but rather broadcasting and waiting for feedback.
- Eran Even-Kesef
An engaged audience is built slowly, not quickly
- Jesse Stay
So now when a new user gets on Twitter they see the same reinforced message from everywhere else. "These are people/brands you should LISTEN to" It is not "These are people to get to know and have conversation with"
- Ron Hudson
Robert, wouldn't the organic SUL just be the top 100 most-followed? Which even before the SUL got going wasn't exactly a bastion of quality. All Twitter needs to do is mix things up - when I sign up (or check the SUL at any time), the service should give me X of its own recommendations, and the same amount that are tailored to me by my own interests. Of course, for this to really work...
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- Shéa Bennett
Curt: lots of people use these things for broadcasting. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I do prefer to follow people who engage.
- Robert Scoble
Hey Louis Gray are you anti-SUL like many of us in this thread?
- Mark
I followed @timoreilly for a while on twitter, but didn't find him interesting enough to keep following. It's true that @GuyKawasaki doesn't write all his own tweets, but I like them and look forward to them (if one of his ladies have written the tweet they will have their initials at the end of it.) I follow you, Robert, because I like your tweets too. I will follow anyone who follows...
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- Andrew Jordan
Shea: I can see about 100 ways to build a useful SUL. The current SUL just serves @ev and @biz 's own egos and purposes.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: just remember that Twitter has signaled to the world that anyone who begs to be on, or complains about the SUL will never get onto it.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I agree. Between us, if they added you overnight, would you ask to be removed? I suspect you would, and I know at least one other has.
- Shéa Bennett
Robert: Why do you think you are not on the Twitter SUL? iJustine was on it (til she was removed) - yet no Scobleizer - It makes zero sense.
- Jim Connolly
Shea: yes, I will ask to be removed. I know one person who removed himself too. (Jay Rosen, journalism professor). Why would I ask to be removed? Because it's a huge gift and one that I would feel I need to disclose every time I talk about Twitter. Look at how many times I'm asked whether I'm paid by FriendFeed. Well, everyone on the Suggested User List is being paid by Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
This feels like irc without the useful tools like tab-auto-complete. I keep wanting to ssh out and open irssi. . .
- Ron Hudson
Aw man, I miss IRC.
- Jason Nunnelley
There's a group of people I follow on twitter not to be part of their conversation but to inform conversations I have with people I know. My friends/acquaintances don't use friendfeed so I have little use for it. Facebook I leave for friends/family and twitter/web forums are for acquaintances.
- Jonathan
Jim: three reasons I have never been on Twitter's Suggested User List: 1. Technically I was difficult to put on the list before they got rid of the @ reply functionality (I was one of the 3% who turned that feature on). 2. I talk about FriendFeed all the time (I wouldn't add someone who talked about a competitor all the time to my service either). 3. I have had days when I'm too noisy...
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- Robert Scoble
Does anyone know or have links to comments made by people on the SUL about the issue?
- Mark
Robert: Thats a very honest and almost certainly accurate answer.
- Jim Connolly
Mark: I've had some contact with @adventuregirl.
- Shéa Bennett
There is a risk here of course regarding complaining about the SUL that one could easily be accused of sour grapes; that is, along the lines of, "How did THEY get on there, and not me?" Although I also suspect that the majority (the masses, if you will) on Twitter don't really care at all about things like the SUL, and are fairly blasé to the criticisms about it. I sincerely believe...
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- Shéa Bennett
Mark: honestly I've been following the SUL and other than when Veronica ripped me a new one for asking whether there was some sort of corruption to get on the list (big brands get on the list, for instance, and this list is totally corruptible because it is NOT a meritocracy) I can't remember ever hearing someone on the SUL discussing it in public. They know better because they are being gifted hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of followers and they don't want to be removed.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: It's REALLY hard getting answers from people like Veronica Belmont or Pete Cashmore. They are both really cool people, but neither have replied to anything I have asked them, in relation to their SUL places. It's like they have been gagged.
- Jim Connolly
Mark: It's here http://www.thetechnewsblog.com/2009...
- Jim Connolly
Shea: most people will not care, that's right, until they figure out they are peasants in a royalty system. Then they will seek out systems that are meritocracies. The tide is already moving.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: To your earlier point re: Tim O'Reilly - if the SUL system is broken and really just a method whereby new twitter users follow & forget, are these people truly "being gifted hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of followers"?
- Jeff Pomeroy
I'm sure most of them don't wanna look a gift horse in the mouth. Is that the right metaphor? hehe
- Mark
Hmm, I'm not sure Robert. Nobody seemed to leave FB when they were at risk of being sold out - the numbers just went up and up. I think the people who truly fight for this stuff are always in a real minority - they seem more prevalent because they're loud! :) I think most people drift away from social networks when they seem to have run their course, like MySpace.
- Shéa Bennett
Jeff: yes, they are because they are now owning the top of lists at http://www.wefollow.com and other places. Also they are getting PR on TV shows worth many thousands of dollars (journalists love picking sources with huge numbers after their names). Finally: SOME of these followers DO engage.
- Robert Scoble
Maybe Tim is too focused? he is not a chit chat BS guy enough to interest large amounts of people... Focus gives value but value that is high and very specific to certain (few) people. As you hinted Robert, value is not a matter of # of followers but of real impact /traction. People will listen and act more upon what is said on FF. FF is more value than traffic.
- Harscoat
Maybe if a few dozen of us from this thread @reply the big players asking for a statement on their placw on SUL they will respond?
- Mark
Scoble: I'm not sure they/we will seek out meritocracies. Like I said before it is not expected. I can go to crackberry forums or IRC if I want to be respected in a niche I think Facebook is more likely to draw people who want to be heard by their peers, because generally it is people you already have an established hierarchy of popularity with. It's high-school all over again. We tend to hang with our group and don't expect to be heard in others.
- Ron Hudson
Don't get me wrong - folk will put their name on lists, and that kind of non-committal stuff. But when it comes to the crunch and, you know, actually quitting over change, they rarely do.
- Shéa Bennett
Jeff: Yes they are, because most of them are selling some kind of advertising on their sites / blogs / podcasts etc. These are often sold on volume of eyeballs, and these will have increased by tens of thousands of percent after gaining all those Twitter followers.
- Jim Connolly
"you did receive a gift. Advertising is sold by 1,000 viewers. Ask Ryan how much 1,000 people are worth. You did NOT earn that gift by any objective measure." - Rob Scoble, Feb 2009
- Mark
Mark: Unlikely. I think Robert is right - far too much to lose. Man, if they added me to the list, this time next week I'd be a millionaire! ;)
- Shéa Bennett
Calacanis was widely quoted as saying a slot on the SUL was worth $250,000 US.
- Jim Connolly
Robert: keep those threads coming, I get to follow good people on real-time, it's better than any Twitter SUL :)
- Nir Ben Yona
Harscoat: I don't disagree a bit. Ron: good point about people not seeking out meritocracies. It does pollute the community, though, and people do figure that out eventually. If anything Facebook went the other way by limiting EVERYONE to 5,000. That brings celebrities down to everyone else's level, which builds good feelings and keeps marketers out.
- Robert Scoble
Jim: It's worth far more than that. Mashable is close to 1 million followers. The account tweets about 15-20 times per day, most back to their own site. That network size is worth millions. TC isn't far behind, and is already saying Twitter is about 10% of their traffic. Jason's semi-serious offer was probably high at the time, but I think a spot on that list now over 12 months is worth easily a million bucks to a brand or power-blog.
- Shéa Bennett
Bill: yup. Today I was talking with Alexander. He says that people will continue seeking out "smaller" spaces. My wife likes Facebook better than FriendFeed or Twitter for that reason: she feels it's the place where she can talk with just her circle of friends.
- Robert Scoble
tidbit of info: spoke to someone last night (who shall remain nameless) that said they went up by >10k followers per day when they were put on the SUL. They still consider that their real follower numbers are closer to their organic growth rate.
- Bill Sanders
I hope all the big players move to FF soon so I can stop visiting twitter.com altogether.
- Mark
I mean, $1/user that you can hit 15-20 times per day, 365 days a year, and if they unfollow, you're going to get another 40-50,000/week because you're on the SUL? I cannot believe Twitter doesn't monetize this feature.
- Shéa Bennett
Shea: I think you are probably right - the numbers are insane and the SUL system is totally corrupt.
- Jim Connolly
Robert, saying that people like me "can't build a following on Friendfeed" is silly. There are only so many networks that you can put time into. For whatever reason, I've chosen Twitter. You've chosen FriendFeed. The fact that I have 10,000 followers on FriendFeed is good news, given that I don't spend time here. Heck, I had 5,000 on Twitter when I started paying attention and using the service.
- Tim O'Reilly
Thanks for coming Tim, do you agree with Robert that your SUL status is a "gift" and one in which makes it difficult for you to report on twitter honestly?
- Mark
And for what it's worth, the SUL isn't very useful except for bragging rights. I had about 60K twitter followers when I went on the SUL; my peak click through-rate has perhaps doubled now that I have 10 times as many. Organic followers are what matters, except, as I say, for the media credibility that you get from people who don't know any better.
- Tim O'Reilly
After all, the SUL is giving you lots of clicks, and clicks = page views and page views = dollars?
- Mark
Tim: this post isn't only about you. But you must admit that you had fewer followers on Twitter than I did before you got added to the Suggested User List. You are getting gifted hundreds of thousands of followers per month. They aren't engaged. They won't do what you ask them to. Have you studied the hit rates the things you retweet are getting before and after getting on teh SUL?
- Robert Scoble
Tim: You deserve to be on the SUL, but many of your SUL buddies don't. It really stinks, the way some of those names were added, and people like Leo Laporte and Scoble were blanked.
- Jim Connolly
Mark - being on the Twitter SUL has absolutely no influence on what I do or do not report about Twitter.
- Tim O'Reilly
Thanks, Tim x
- Mark
Ahh, I see you have studied the hit rates and your observations match mine. These aren't "real" followers and they aren't engaged. Twitter did that to remove people they don't like from the top of the leaderboards (like Calacanis, Laporte, and me).
- Robert Scoble
Is this about numbers (i.e. ratings and money) or is this about engagement?
- Sawyer Training, Inc.
Incidentally, was iJustine removed from the SUL for something she said? Just wondering. I'd be interested to see if somebody on that list could be very critical about Twitter and stay on it.
- Shéa Bennett
Tim is unsurprisingly savvy on the matter: "my peak click through-rate has perhaps doubled now that I have 10 times as many. Organic followers are what matters, except, as I say, for the media credibility that you get from people who don't know any better." In other words, organic followers are worth 10x more clicks/$$ than SUL followers.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Robert, did you recently share a Whisky with @Ev? What are the twitter bosses saying about the SUL and yoru complaints?
- Mark
Tim: how do we know that, though? If you paid me hundreds of thousands of dollars per year I would need to disclose that to my audience and it would be very tough not to be influenced by that money you're paying me. Twitter is paying you a huge sum of money in followers and yet you say it has no influence on you.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: I didn't bring it up with @ev (other than to make a small joke that he was building his own celebrities with the SUL, which he nervously smiled at). Why? Because I'd rather have these discussions out in public where you can see them and know that I'm not playing "footsie" with Twitter to get onto the list.
- Robert Scoble
Sure it changes Tim's experience of the service and (at the least) doubles his direct financial rewards from the service but he's presumably not working on a word of mouth contract with them. The only way to be *completely* sure there's no conflict of interest would be for oreilly.com to block/redirect all direct or indirect clickthroughs from Twitter and I'm sure we can all agree that's not feasible.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
That's just like the Robert we have known for a long time...
- Amit Nangare
If this is about engagement consider that for me most of my engagement is "downstream" with my followers (who are few but important to me) rather than "upstream" where I look for trends, leads, and insights. I only interact upstream on rare occasions when I feel I might have something to add (and this may not be one of those times).
- Sawyer Training, Inc.
Tim: It is impossible for you to be totally unbiased regarding Twitter, surely?
- Jim Connolly
I like to think that after Robert had that whisky from Ev, his life spiralled out of control, a bit like something in Michael Douglas' The Game. Three days disappeared in a blur, and when he woke up, the only working login he had left was on Plurk. ;)
- Shéa Bennett
It's impossible for any business to be completely unbiased regarding media outlets that cover/enable them, Jim. The best we can hope for is full disclosure, published conduct guidelines, and ombudsmen.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Mark: also that wasn't an appropriate time socially. His wife was there, it wasn't an on the record type event, and it's not nice to be a jerk on a Saturday night.
- Robert Scoble
Well I suppose twitter sends money to the SUL via followers, how is it it any different than Dell sending money to you via free laptops?
- Mark
Daniel: We are talking about a 6 figure 'gift' from a company, to a group of people who write about that company. This is a really big deal.
- Jim Connolly
@Shéa Bennett: Ijustine - man did that get old fast. That's what happens after 100 episodes of the same "yeah, yeah, you can ask ij"
- Asgeir
Daniel: it's pretty hard to figure out that people are on the SUL. You have to have a new account and look every few days. Some people are building tracking systems to watch who is added and who is taken off (iJustine was on for a while but isn't anymore and she now is losing followers, if you watch the charts). Disclosure? People who are on this list don't see it as a gift.
- Robert Scoble
Fair point, Rob x
- Mark
It's simply a matter of scale, Jim. There is no realistic way for Tim to remain completely objective aside from eschewing Twitter altogether. As long as he is above board re: his dealings with Twitter that's really all that anyone can expect of him.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Mark: if I take gifts I disclose it. I'd rather have the followers the SUL gives someone than a free laptop. A laptop is only worth $2,000. Getting on the SUL is worth many many more times that.
- Robert Scoble
when i said "you", i didnt mean any of you in particular with the laptops
- Mark
"you" just sounds better than "one" - how english of me
- Mark
Good point, Robert. Perhaps Twitter should make it super obvious that people are on the SUL. It *would* be nice if text from SUL tweeters was visually distinguishable from regular tweeters so that we could know to (not) pay attention to it as per our preferences.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
One respectfully disagrees :)
- Ian Betteridge
Regarding iJustine, I'm guessing she was pulled from the SUL early May? Check the chart: http://twittercounter.com/compare... If that date correlates, that probably says all we need to know about the benefits.
- Shéa Bennett
Robert - do you think all Twitter-related content published by SULers should include a boilerplate disclaimer such as "BTW I get zillions of clicks through Twitter's preferential treatment" at the top of every story?
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Daniel: at Steve Broback's Twitter Conference the Twitter employees were visibly uncomfortable talking about the SUL. It's interesting that they added a "verified" icon to my account but they aren't identifying who is on the SUL.
- Robert Scoble
Whoa, Shéa
- Mark
It was cool of Tim to 'almost' talk about the SUL here. The guy's a tech legend and is there on merit - I just wish the list was balanced so others who equally deserve a slot had one.
- Jim Connolly
Daniel: yes. If the New York Times journalists were receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars from a company they cover, wouldn't you expect them to disclose that?
- Robert Scoble
I won't argue with you there at all, Robert. I would be happy seeing disclaimers and graphics denoting SUL status. I was thinking the problem was more Twitter's than Tim's but I suppose it's both.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
That graphic blew my mind, Shea. Thanks!
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Are most professional journalists doing online content paid based on page views?
- Mark
or is it pay per article?
- Mark
Jim: I wish the list was a meritocracy and based on your actual usage and value you add to Twitter. Personally I wish we had a list a lot more like wefollow.com or alltop.com than what Twitter came up with. Mark: yes.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: EXACTLY!
- Jim Connolly
Mark: Journalism companies get paid by 1000 page views. That's called CPM. They then usually pay their reporters per article, or per word, or they are salaried.
- Robert Scoble
One reason is FriendFeed lacks a way of linking to other users in a post. On Twitter you can @timoreilly or @TechCrunch and I'd click on them and see if they are worth following. Since you can't do that on FriendFeed I don't bother to look to see if they are worth following.
- ChiliMac
Jim: I find it insulting that Oprah was added to the Suggested User List after doing only a dozen or so entries on Twitter. How did they know she would be a good Twitterer after only that few? How insulting is that to all the other people who put tons more work into the system?
- Robert Scoble
I don't think this SUL thing is about numbers, it's about ego and personality. Can you live without expressing your personal believes and have PR people do your job or say what you have to say out loud on public and give up the courtesy and goodies. Why is it about personality? Example: When Scoble came to visit my country (Israel) everyone could have a talk with him directly without...
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- Nir Ben Yona
ChiliMac: funny, I found you just fine and subscribed to you here. It's a different way, though. Here you put full URLs into the message. Like "hey, everyone, follow ChiliMac here: http://friendfeed.com/chilimac "
- Robert Scoble
Robert: If being on the list has negligible value as you proposed (and Tim essentially confirmed) in terms of click-throughs, are we perhaps being overly concerned with its 'benefits'? If Tim's network has gone x10 and his clicks are x2, it's likely that his gain is from a lot of people who followed him organically (i.e., normal network growth).
- Shéa Bennett
Robert: The Oprah situation took the SUL issue and exposed it for what it is; a 'buddy list.' Not based on merit or value. I only heard of Twitter because of you and Leo. There are hundreds of thousands of early users who only discovered Twitter off you and Leo's mentions. How soon they forget!
- Jim Connolly
Shea: perhaps we are overly concerned. But I notice that people don't often remove themselves from this list, and even when they do (like in Jay Rosen's case) it's only after really thinking through the ethical responsibility of taking a huge gift from a corporation that they potentially cover.
- Robert Scoble
Jim: exactly. I really hate it when companies love you when they are getting started because they need a few evangelistic users (ICQ started with only 40 users, so that's all you really need) but then they stab you in the back once they don't need you anymore. That's why more than a few bloggers now ask for stock or fees to cover their companies. Me? I will continue being a sucker for an entrepreneur with a great product or service.
- Robert Scoble
value is the way and not arbitrary will from kings (ev and biz eg)... so this thread opens one's eyes to the not so fair and ego driven aspect of twitter as a cy ( I still remember @ev with the Trump daughter in front of the white house ;) - SUL = buddy list of @ev and @biz... liked Jim suggestion
- Harscoat
I agree about Oprah but Twitter wants names on there - people that the 180 million Facebook users they don't have on Twitter right now will recognise. Everybody knows Oprah. It isn't about being a 'good Twitterer' (which is of course a relative term - one man's P. Diddy is another man's Jack Schofield) - it's about new users going, "Hey, I know this person." and that validates the...
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- Shéa Bennett
I wish Twitter wold make it easier to connect with people that has same interests. wefollow is on the right track, but people add themselves to categories they don't belong in. The one with most follower under #photo has, as far as I can tell, never written anything about photos, or photo related news
- Asgeir
there are the "cooperators" and "free riders/defectors" in life (in evo psy terms) - Robert is a cooperator (interested in the overall value for the group rather than his own personal interest)! pointing at entrepreneurs with great product and services for the community. Do not change
- Harscoat
Twitter is really just a broadcast medium, you can be influential and be on the SUL, but it's more likely you just have a bunch of people checking out the service once and never looking again. FF allows you to build value and relationships around conversations. Take this very thread. Which is more monetizable in the long run? I think twitter will just become another protocol, FF provides a far more valuable service. But that's just my opinion really, and it all depends on how YOU define "useful"
- John
I try to participate, but I have anywhere from 60 to 80 hours of work a week, and adding Twitter and FF to the list increased my hours. So I can't always participate even though I want to.
- RobinDotNet
Robert, I'm intrigued by your success and focus on this subject. I wonder, how do you think a group fairs compared to a single personality? At the moment, you're the king of social media in my opinion because of your engagement. The attention you command is ten fold the value of Ashton's million plus drive-by fans. But, could 10 top-notch social folks stuck to a brand (like Mashable's core Twitter brand) out-perform a single guy's personal touch? [Sorry, I did go a bit OT]
- Jason Nunnelley
The truth is the SUL list on Twitter falsely inflates everyone numbers who are on it, I suspect if Tim O'Reilly wasn't on the list his numbers percentage wise would be just about the same whether we are talking Twitter or FF. I also think that since FF doesn't have an auto follow method, like twitter, their is more thought put into who someone is going to follow.
- Kim Landwehr
Kim: That's true, but it's not just a question of auto-follow. One, Facebook doesn't allow one-way following - you have to be 'friends'. Two, for most people, letting somebody friend them on FB is a fairly big deal as that person then has access to a lot of your life (personal details, photos, etc - it AMAZES me how many people put their cellphone number on Facebook, and then just...
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- Shéa Bennett
I agree SUL is billboard advertising. Essel-i support that 'just like to read' is fine for some. That's how I participate with Wikipedia and I can see some on twitter will simply be there looking for new eddies in the river of news. FriendFeed and Facebook lead for those of us wanting greater depth: No matter if you are a platform or a "personality" how is quality engagement promoted...
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- Lane Rapp
Jason: I am often at a disadvantage competing against brands with many people employed like TechCrunch and Mashable. What was interesting was that I (and others like Leo Laporte, Calacanis, Kawasaki, et al) was able to compete before the SUL propelled them above me and into a different league. At least on Twitter. Everywhere else I'm still kicking their behinds. Which is worth studying,...
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- Robert Scoble
I am not on the Twitter SUL. I have 15,000 on Twitter and 2,700 on FF. Could it be that there are fewer peeps on FF?
- Beth Kanter
Beth: that's a pretty common ratio, but doesn't match anyone's who is on the SUL. But, you miss my point. On Facebook (which has far far far more people than Twitter) TechCrunch has far fewer fans than I do but on Twitter he has far more, all artificially gained. If TechCrunch were smart he'd have those people also follow his fan page on Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
But you bring up an interesting point, Beth, for another thread. Why aren't your followers good followers of yours? I imagine you've told them about friendfeed. Why don't your followers listen to you? I thought it was just me.
- Robert Scoble
I just don't use facebook at all like i do FriendFeed or Twitter.
- Geoff Schultz {TF}
What about the shear time to keep up with the topics of the day? For me twitter is all about reading quick short headlines, getting a pulse on what's going on, and then making a decision on what topics are important enough to engage deeper on. FF, FC, blogs, etc are the place to go deeper into the conversation. If you buy off on that, then the math comes into play,Twitter is the grand...
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- Robert Wilkins
Oprah, by the way, has 1,619,000 on Twitter and 760,000 on Facebook. I wonder how many followers Oprah was gifted by being on the recommended follower list, but you can see why Twitter is doing this. The higher Oprah's numbers are on Twitter the cooler Twitter seems and the more hype it gets and the more celebrities want to chase Oprah, even if they are for fake followers who don't mean that much. Brilliant strategy on Twitter's part.
- Robert Scoble
yea, oprah=cool. you toting your camera maybe not so much to mainstream, glad to see the new hulk photo ;-)
- Lane Rapp
Lane: Oprah is cool? Have you seen her Tweets? Not cool at all.
- Robert Scoble
I have very different uses for each: Twitter, Facebook, FriendFeed...
- Kelly A Nelson
Robert, Oprah's tweets are indeed superficial. Totally not engaged. She would do well to use twitter to engage both her audience and her causes between seasons. My joke was framed sarcastically enuff, but was to support your entire discussion here, that the SUL is rigged for twitter and celeb marketing.
- Lane Rapp
Meh. all these celebs taking twitter away from us geeks :( its ours :(
- Mark
Ellen Degeneres does a good job in my opinion
- Lane Rapp
Mark, give twitter to the masses, sometimes I get the feeling FF wants to remain a niche. I can't say I would be disappointed as long as the lights stay on. We can contribute like we do on NPR.
- Lane Rapp
Lane: they said that about Twitter two years ago. The thing is here that FriendFeed has nooks and crannies that can let us hide from the masses a lot better than we can hide on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Beth, I think the difference between Twitter and FF is two fold, compounded and a big indicator as to why Robert may fair so much better here and FB. Twitter simplifies the competition (if there is such a thing, though people perceive it's real, so it is). It's all about followers and extremely competitive to gain them. FriendFeed is culturally different, and conversational. This kind...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Yes we can hide away in little corners, and even go private rooms if we want a little insider chat. Friendfeed is our underground movement!
- Mark
Something Robert has done that works best in more conversational SM is brand himself as an all around cool guy. He's not "Robert Scoble the tech guru." Mashable and Techcrunch are very limited in their scope, so readers are likely to read their blip about their preferred technology and move on. Robert engages his readers on a multitude of topics, much more conversational. He'll actually...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Robert, thanks I'll do my part to welcome the masses while I learn more about the nooks and crannies. I noticed how all the FF user help rooms are active, but the Facebook user groups have limited discussion.
- Lane Rapp
Lane (WARNING: shameless promotion) I'd be happy to host more conversations in newb regarding Facebook if you like, post tutorials, videos, etc. Are you more often a question source or an answer source? <edit> Meaning, I'd like to have someone else post help there if I start pushing my readers to the group.
- Jason Nunnelley
Anyone heard any news about new friendfeed features? Sure would be cool to be able to post images and things in the discussion thread.
- Mark
I hate to hit and run, but 90% of the people I follow I follow because I've seen them say interesting things and participate here.
- Steve Lowe
Steve, why is that Hit and Run?
- Jason Nunnelley
Is the FriendFeed back-end on Scala already? :)
- The Pageman
Jason, I'd like that and think the rural, the elder, the poor, the disabled, and much of africa who get better high speed net access will as well. As fast as these platforms are growing the users have to help out with the concierge desk. I've got questions and I'm still newb enuff to answer some with empathy
- Lane Rapp
If more people used clients that don't require following people to group them and/or see their tweets, the followers would n't be half as relevant on Twitter. I converse with lots of people I don't follow on facebook and FriendFeed.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Robert, the bottom line is people follow people for three reasons: content, content and content. The question is what difference does the SUL on Twitter make if most people just ignore boring content and move on?
- Jason Nunnelley
My mom joined Twitter today (that tells me its not Myspace, so much for my original thesis) but she didn't necessarily want to follow this suggested list, but from talking to her, it sounded like it was "fostered" onto her. I don't know what the steps look like since I joined a long time ago, but it sounds like for a newbie you are pretty much going to auto follow these people
- Stephen Pickering
I have more friends/followers on Friendfeed than I do on any other site
- Joe Dawson
the followers picked up from SUL are folks who are getting started -- it's like the old PCH magazine subs: renewals and engagemt were horrible but the audience inflation paid back in ad dollars. The social web is about "finding" an audience, just like the old days before you could use web clout to open the spigot and drive a massive audience. The SUL is a Web 1.0 artifact, like cutting...
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- Dan McCarthy
from BuddyFeed
Robert, et al: There was some important information shared in this thread yesterday, and I've put a lot of it together in a post for Twittercism, focusing on comparisons between the follower counts of Tim, Robert and iJustine. Appreciate your thoughts. Cheers. http://twittercism.com/suggest...
- Shéa Bennett
isn't 10000 followers on friendfeed just about the same percentage of the community as 600000 on twitter?
- Iphigenie
Stephen, you have to unclick the people you don't want to follow in the SUL.
- Jason Nunnelley
Great thread. Thanks Robert.
- Mark Davidson
from BuddyFeed
Thanks for sharing - great info Robert!!
- Laurie DesAutels
If what you say is true, then the terms need to be changed. As for them not transferring to any other social network, why is that even necessary? There's a great study out there that states 90% of your network will be lurkers anyway. You'll never know that they exist, however, it's still comforting to know they're there....
- Mike Shields
Robert: Now that you mention it, I will tell them about FriendFeed.
- Beth Kanter
Robert: I hate it when there's a "food fight" over ideas. Please remember that Twitter is still trying to find a business model. These $100,000 gifts are basically Calacanis "Bucks"... you can't actually buy anything with them except the promise of VC investment. VC investment is simply mortgaging your future.
- davem51
Was it wrong with Radio from UserLand had some suggested feeds to follow? No. It was a smart business idea and Adam Curry invested to get more readers. Smart attempt to save Userland from failing.
- davem51
I met Tim O'Reilly in 1990 working the O'Reilly booth at Usenix. It was one of the most interesting conversations I have ever had at a conference... Tim knows how to present idea but more importantly he has the biggest ears in tech. He's got an Open Source Mind.
- davem51
am i on twittr?
- j edmonds
How Twitter's Staff Uses Twitter (And Why It Could Cause Problems) http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Dimitar Vesselinov, ANJELINABANANA, Dr. Apps and 28 other people liked this
I don't think this is as big an issue as the article makes it seem. From the very start, we have known what the Twitter developers suggest that Twitter be used for: "Twitter is a service for friends, family, and coworkers to communicate and stay connected through the exchange of quick, frequent answers to one simple question: What are you doing?" Following thousands of people doesn't...
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- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Great post Marshall - and you make some great points. I agree that we don't have to follow everyone back however, and even as a "relative" early adopter, I'm very, very selective who I'm following back anymore. I'm leaning towards waiting for conversations to develop, then relationships, then follow-back - which is probably why I'm still under 1000 followers. ;) But I think @ev has some...
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- Gary Walter (gwalter)
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Great post. You would hope there would be some basic leadership by example. After all, who better to help us understand how to get more out of Twitter than the creators and employees themselves. Based on your stats it doesn't seem like one of the fastest growing community apps on the planet cares much about building its own community. On the other hand, to be fair, there is some merit...
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- Mike Elliott
Twitter staff ARE leading by example -- their example even shows how they expected it to be used (and what it was engineered to handle?)
- Joel Bennett
Oh no, Twitter's staff isn't using Twitter like we full-time bloggers too! To be serious, I think you miss the point that Twitter can be used in any way you like and is big enough for multiple types of usage. Twitter staff doesn't need to be "power users" to understand and use Twitter. Heck, I'd rather have them programming fixes than tweeting 5% of the time.
- Ben Parr
@Joel Bennet I see your point. I hadn't thought of it that way. Without the ability to segregate who they're following they lose utility by following more just for the sake of following. So maybe it's the other way around and we're just not following their example. Well said.
- Mike Elliott
I'm just going to assume that anyone who says "who cares, why does this matter" without responding to the section subtitled "why does this matter" didn't read that part of the article. Thoughts on why this matters are in there, though. :)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall you bring up some interesting points, but I don't know if I buy into the comparisons between Wordpress and Twitter. I get the publishing line of thought, but I don't know if I agree.
- Brandon Mendelson
Brandon, by that I mean the architecture of connection. Trackbacks were key to blogging, they were how people found out about eachother along with comments, and the @ reply is that same kind of thing. Now that's getting messed up.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Perhaps some Twitter staffers are experimenting with the concept of matching their Twitter streams with the Dunbar number theory, or the idea that humans can only maintain quality relationships with about 150 other people. Yes, tools like Tweetdeck and Tweetgrid can allow power users to follow many more people and group them to pay attention to only a few. But in those cases, perhaps...
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- Andria Krewson
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Thank you for clarifying that point Marshall. I understand now, and it is a point I agree on.
- Brandon Mendelson
I like Ev's response. It is exactly how I feel as a user. Trying to see the point of this post. It's worth posting and observing and ingniting some discussion.... I dont think that it is entirely fair to place this kind of weight on twitter based on the employee follow/friend lists. But you are making a point to separate normal users and power users (some being early adopters). To...
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- sull
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
I totally agree with Ev. That's why I use friendfeed, which lets me follow people in BOTH modes (mass following so I can see random selection of all the people who follow me and small list following so I can very closely follow a small group of people). Instead of fighting with their users (like what Ev is doing with his response, by chastizing certain groups of users) he should fix his product so it serves all users. But it really doesn't matter. Twitter has won and Ev will make a huge amount of money.
- Robert Scoble
This reminds me of people in my office telling me that I don't know what they're doing on the net b/c I'm not looking directly over their shoulder while they utilize *MY* network. Certainly someone like Kirkpatrick understands that the folks at Twitter have access to every piece of data that flows over *their* network? In other words, Twitter still has real-time track, even if Gillmor doesn't.
- coldbrew
Reading: 6 Reasons You Shouldn’t Brand Yourself as a Social Media Expert - http://personalbrandingblog.com/6-reaso...
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Intergenerational Trust Workshop @NCVS Promo http://www.youtube.com/watch... (via http://friendfeed.com/jmorton...)
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Our project's presence here on Friendfeed. Focus is on volunteer management, national service, youth service, general nonprofit management: http://friendfeed.com/service...
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Congrats to @StephAgresta for her new Porter Novelli gig. http://www.prweekus.com/pages... Via @gapingvoid
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Reviewing submissions for the @socialmediaclub Executive Director position. Grateful so many wished to contribute to the organization.
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We've just had our third online community inspiration of the evening. Who says date night can't be a (legal) source of business?
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Checking Out - A rating and discovery engine for bloggers and columnists. Find better writers online - http://scribnia.com/
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