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Rob La Gesse › Comments
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...?
scott anderson, Rocky Barbanica, Nir Ben Yona and 4 other people liked this
Should be a good show. Craig Burton always has something interesting to say.
- Cliff Gerrish
Waiting for call.
- Robert Scoble
Looking forward to the show.
- Matt Mastracci
A fellow Utahn - I will be watching :-)
- Jesse Stay
hmmm. silverlight plugin just went kerfluey on me...let's see if it works now.
- Karoli
Still waiting for skype call...
- Robert Scoble
Looks like we're very close to start.
- Robert Scoble
ah..working now.
- Karoli
Chris Messina is on too.
- Robert Scoble
Yay Phil and Craig! Two of my favorite Utahns
- Jesse Stay
Robert's pretty close to having a "lair" there...
- Ken Sheppardson
LIve from @ribbit http://bit.ly/Spawn on Gillmor Gang
- Kevin Marks
robert, i can't imagine going from that to an iphone. your head must explode daily.
- Karoli
Twitter.com FTW!
- Jesse Stay
Actually, I use e-mail for most of my Twitter activity
- Jesse Stay
Robert's head exploding is all part of the show.
- Cliff Gerrish
You guys should be sure to talk about the new Paypal identity proposals
- Jesse Stay
Karoli: info density is pretty crazy! Jesse: I got some good interviews on that yesterday. Should be up on Building43 next week.
- Robert Scoble
where are they again?
- Christopher Harris
Phil and Chris are at http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com
- Ken Sheppardson
thx
- Christopher Harris
I love how all the Identity pieces are fitting together now with OpenID+OAuth Hybrid, WebFinger and XRD and Activity Streams and PoCo at #iiw this week
- Kevin Marks
IIW was great this year.
- Cliff Gerrish
Robert, I'm getting more info on it as well - they want to be much more open than it appeared in the keynote
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: I will try to introduce PayPal's identity moves into this conversation. Also, what @marcglasberg http://icents.net is doing to turn Twitter into a micropayments system for content.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, missed what @marcglasberg is doing - can't wait to hear more
- Jesse Stay
Someone tell Craig to turn the sounds off on his TweetDeck ;-)
- Jesse Stay
and tell them I said hi from the chat (I don't think they're watching this)
- Jesse Stay
"Open ID threat level Orange?"
- Rob La Gesse
OpenID is just putting on long pants, a shirt and a tie.
- Cliff Gerrish
says @chrismessina the Govt is encouraging people to use OpenID as most people have them already.
- Kevin Marks
Badfinger or Webfinger?
- Cliff Gerrish
Email seems like a bad identifier.
- Cliff Gerrish
http://webfinger.org - it is a protocol to map an emial address into an OpenID endpoint - works with gmail and yahoo already
- Kevin Marks
Just ran into this on stackoverflow.com... they have logos for 10 different OpenID providers or your own URL and I think I have IDs on 8 of them... and I have no idea which one I used to create my account.
- Ken Sheppardson
The right number of id providers is 1. Selectors can solve this problem.
- Cliff Gerrish
We should be able to "transform" emails to OpenID, as described here: http://chrissaad.wordpress.com/2008... (see comments)
- Panayotis Vryonis
Hey Kevin how do I get involved in what you guys are doing with OpenID?
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, come to the next IIW.
- Cliff Gerrish
It would be great if Twitter supported OpenID as well as OAuth #iiw
- Kevin Marks
Watching the show but the FF stream is "frozen" from last week?just me?
- Paul Sherer
from iPhone
Twitter as an OpenID provider?
- Ken Sheppardson
Cliff, I wasn't aware of it - that would have been interesting. I was just out there the last 3 days at the Paypal conference.
- Jesse Stay
Paul, refresh. The thread has been updated inside NewsGang.
- Cliff Gerrish
Wow - I didn't realize Paypal was part of the OpenID foundation
- Jesse Stay
@Paul - working fine here. Are you at http://www.building43.com/realtim... ?
- Rob La Gesse
I don't quite understand why we need Salmon independent of Activitystrea.ms. Seems like a "feature" of activitystreams.
- Ken Sheppardson
I'll head over to building34, thanks.
- Paul Sherer
Monica's Activity Streams prezi: http://prezi.com/yxvtypx-aani/ maps out the ideas behind it too
- Kevin Marks
Calling out "comment streams" as some special case of activities seems like a dead end.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, Salmon is just the part that shows how to send the comments upstream, it fits in with Activity Streams fine.
- Kevin Marks
Of course in FF the comment thread can appear in multiple places simultaneously via iframe.
- Cliff Gerrish
So, Kevin, can Salmon support any Activitystreams objects? ... Got it.
- Ken Sheppardson
Salmon I'm Atom... I'm getting lost here
- Frank Paynter
Cool, I'm totally going to rip off the salmon idea and make my own proprietary protocol.
- Vezquex: God of FF
do you need an iFrog to use ribbit?
- Frank Paynter
Okay - I missed the last 15 mins. Did I miss anything?
- Jesse Stay
If Gillmor Gang watchers want Ribbit Mobile, got to http://ribbit.com/reserve.php and use the invite code 'gang09'
- Kevin Marks
Is Messina on the Space Station?
- Jesse Newhart
I wish somebody would put together some sort of over-arching reference document that explains how you build something that uses PSHB, OpenID, OAuth, Salmon, Activitystreams, etc in the "correct" way in an integrated system.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, check out the identity commons.
- Cliff Gerrish
I really wish Phil and Craig were in here. I need to get those guys together for lunch some time. That would be a fun meeting.
- Jesse Stay
I think you can catch both Phil and Craig at the Kynetx conference. It's coming right up.
- Cliff Gerrish
Conference de jour, literally ;-) Can't we all just agree to get together once a year or so in one place and deal with everything at once? :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
how about adding lists to lists? when's that coming?
- Frank Paynter
Ken, that's what the weekly Gillmor Gang is for. Everyone in one place in real time.
- Cliff Gerrish
I love how Atom is so flexible that we can add all these extra layers on top of it. ActivityStreams, Salmon, PSHB, etc
- Matt Mastracci
YES. filters to something manageable.
- Karoli
frank, isn't that what listorious is for? :)
- Karoli
Cliff: It's just that all these conference give me the apparently mistaken impression that there are more than 10 or so folks who I really have to follow ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Karoli... mebbe, but I'm a fan of bundling functionality within the native platform
- Frank Paynter
Seems like building a bunch of translators is the best way to get adoption.
- Cliff Gerrish
Isn't that what Gnip's supposed to be doing?
- Ken Sheppardson
Facebook just needs to remove the 24 hour storage limit and it will be free
- Jesse Stay
@cgerrish yes, translators into Activity Streams rather than n by n translators is an important saving
- Kevin Marks
Cliff, yeah - I'll be at the Kynetx conference
- Jesse Stay
I see Phil all the time - haven't met Craig yet (except online)
- Jesse Stay
Amen Mark - more clients need to support activitystrea.ms
- Jesse Stay
Myspace is still very much in the game
- Jesse Stay
Wait and see - there are some huge things coming to Myspace
- Jesse Stay
So we're all going to speak activitystreams on the global back-end bus and all these sites just become "clients"? Cool. I'm down with that.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, all but Twitter, at least the way they're going
- Jesse Stay
MySpace need a major shift to survive
- Rocky Barbanica
Rocky, keep watching.
- Jesse Stay
But if *everything* else is connected, we can all just pool our API call limits to pull the full feed out of Twitter and translate it to AS
- Ken Sheppardson
Go tell @loic to support Activity Streams from MySpace and Netflix, @scobleizer
- Kevin Marks
That's the theory, Ken. At least until the next time something closed and exciting comes along, ;)
- Matt Mastracci
It will be everyone supports open standards, then you'll also have to support Twitter's own standard - at least if you ask John at Twitter
- Jesse Stay
JK's sane, Jesse... if this all got widespread adoption I think you'd see a different bottom-up attitude from Twitter...
- Ken Sheppardson
The custom adapters actually creates a value proposition.
- Cliff Gerrish
http://cliqset.com is an Activity Streams supporting aggregator, as is MS Live
- Kevin Marks
Facebook needs public indexing to get legit... they can't because of privacy aspect of their service... FriendFeed can provide the opening to public indexing of Facebook users' wall content...
- Frank Paynter
Ken, yeah - I just don't like his attitude around it
- Jesse Stay
anything but FB, please.
- Karoli
Frank, you can use FQL to search Facebook pretty much site-wide (at least as privacy allows)
- Jesse Stay
I can sorta see Twitter's point... I mean Evan came to them a year ago and said "Hey, you should support OMB" and their natural response as "Uh... no.... why? Nobody's using it..."
- Ken Sheppardson
I should note Twitter doesn't allow specific queries like FQL btw
- Jesse Stay
I'd just as soon not search Facebook. or even use it.
- Karoli
Jesse...yahbut, you can't find Facebook content on google
- Frank Paynter
@Frank - yet!
- Rob La Gesse
Frank, yes you can
- Jesse Stay
There's a strong current of relevant discussion on Facebook that is hard for me to ignore
- Frank Paynter
If Activitystreams was implemented widely, I suspect the engineers at Twitter would warm up to it. That might not be a sufficient condition, but it's certainly necessary.
- Ken Sheppardson
sad that no-one from @twitterapi came to IIW this year; @blaine came + helped invent OAuth when they were 1/10th the size
- Kevin Marks
Frank: http://www.google.com/search...
- Jesse Stay
Facebook encourages self-censorship, or disownership, depending. (Basically I don't really want my Republican spouse reading my liberal rants)
- Karoli
@Kevin - they are busy building lists.
- Rob La Gesse
Kevin, yeah - that's been my perception - they're taking no part in any of the open efforts, which concerns me
- Jesse Stay
I think we all scared them off at BearHugCamp last fall ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Kevin, is Facebook there at all? I imagine Recordon's probably there?
- Jesse Stay
That's consistent with what Bret said last week, RE Facebook
- Ken Sheppardson
hubs will be distributed. facebook will lose their advantage.
- scott anderson
scott, i think so too. Google federating wave is one step closer to that...
- Karoli
perfect question
- Rocky Barbanica
Where's Microsoft in all this, btw?
- Ken Sheppardson
MSFT had a big presence at IIW - Information cards (selectors) started with them.
- Cliff Gerrish
Here's another good Google search on Facebook: site:www.facebook.com lists - status updates will very soon also be part of that
- Jesse Stay
What did Scoble just call his wife?
- Cliff Gerrish
As soon as grandmas start using a service, Robert bails... so... y'know... ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Scott, Facebook is becoming distributed
- Jesse Stay
Jesse... thanks for the "site: facebook" clue, but it's weak... I've just been testing it and nothing relevant emerged in response to specific search requests
- Frank Paynter
Ken - MS is busy building layoff packages and not serious software.
- Rob La Gesse
MSFT had a lot of good people at #iiw, and they are really contributing to the Activity Streams and OWF efforts
- Kevin Marks
@KevinMarks. Thanks for the mention. Yes, we (Cliqset) currently normalize activity from 70+ services into activity streams compliant atom feeds. We also share them in real-time through our APIs.
- Darren
Frank, a lot of cool articles about Twitter lists - I thought it was interesting "site:facebook.com lists"
- Jesse Stay
Save the demo for a building43 video :)
- Rob La Gesse
Frank, status updates are also very soon going to be included in that as well. Very soon you'll see those come up in search results.
- Jesse Stay
We will, Rob
- Rocky Barbanica
Seeing individual engineers and marketing folks from MSFT at different events reminds me alot of my old NASA days, when you'd always find some sort of "rogue" engineer off working on pretty much any project you can imagine. Every once in a while all the "rogue" engineers from the different centers who were working on similar projects would get together... but they were rarely funded and projects never went anywhere. But on the flip side... I'm glad they're involved :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Scoble is such a non-programmer. Everything he says that's hard sounds easy. "How do I bundle 3 tweets?" Just use take their URIs or copy the text.
- Vezquex: God of FF
Interesting show.
- Rob La Gesse
Thanks for the info Jesse
- Frank Paynter
Oh man...
- Rocky Barbanica
thanks, steve
- Karoli
Vezquex: sorry, that just does NOT do it for me.
- Robert Scoble
what more do you need?
- Vezquex: God of FF
Vezquex: I want to put them on a page and have them look like Tweets, mixed with YouTUbe videos, mixed with photos. Make it freaking easy. Copy and pasting and doing screen captures is NOT easy for most people.
- Robert Scoble
Did they mention the Paypal identification proposal at all? I think I missed it.
- Jesse Stay
Just in passing, Jesse
- Ken Sheppardson
We never got to it Jesse
- Craig Burton
Ken, I'm very fascinated by that, because it's true identity. If they can make that open along with the existing open standards around identity they're going to do some great things. I'm supposed to get a briefing by them soon (I hope).
- Jesse Stay
Vezquex: look at the Tweets I put into Wordpress: http://scobleizer.com/2009... that took a LOT of work. Way too much for normal people and WAY too much for real-time work. Did you watch the World Series last night? MSNBC had a Tweet out AS THE BALL HIT THE GLOVE TO END THE GAME!
- Robert Scoble
Craig, great seeing you, btw! I don't think we've ever met in person.
- Jesse Stay
This is a real time world and copying and pasting URLs is too freaking hard.
- Robert Scoble
Thanks Jesse, we need to make that happen.
- Craig Burton
Plus, I do everything on my iPhone now. Did you remember how we broke the news of Facebook buying FriendFeed? That entire thing was done from an iPhone, including an audio interview.
- Robert Scoble
Craig, just sent you and Phil an e-mail. Let's definitely make it happen.
- Jesse Stay
Paypal is still very weak. They are not quite clued in to the selector imperative.
- Craig Burton
Jesse: applications running on the open web will always be able to innovate and provide more functionality than apps running on top of Facebook. With activity streams, hubs, openid, etc. the reduced friction advantage that Facebook has is diminished.
- scott anderson
Craig, that's my worry
- Jesse Stay
Scott, Facebook is joining the open web
- Jesse Stay
it's all talk until it happens
- scott anderson
they also said Beacon was going to be revolutionary
- scott anderson
Facebook is an activitystrea.ms provider right now: http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.... They are also currently an openid provider.
- Jesse Stay
Facebook has openID?
- Matt Mastracci
I think you see it now with the work Recordon and the ex-FriendFeeders are doing... but the IP limits, 24hr cache limits, and EULA mythology seems to cast a shadow over everything
- Ken Sheppardson
Also see: http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index...
- Jesse Stay
and http://developers.facebook.com/opensou...
- Jesse Stay
openid support is defensive move
- scott anderson
BTW, most this stuff was around even before Recordon came on board
- Jesse Stay
Yeah, I realized that after I wrote that, Jesse... he's just sorta the flag bearer these days
- Ken Sheppardson
Scott, they've had that support for at least 6 months now
- Jesse Stay
Facebook led much of the activitystrea.ms standard - it is not a defensive move. They were part of the organization, and are also members of the openid foundation. They're leaders in this, not followers.
- Jesse Stay
openid support is a defensive move because they don't want google to dominate the openid space. if activity stream content expires after some period of time when it leaves Facebook, then that is another defensive move and one that is not truly open.
- scott anderson
Scott, I'm not sure they've said much about that content expiring. As long as you're a user I'm pretty sure you're able to get your content out, no exceptions. Developers have a few more strict rules, but nothing's stopping a client from enabling that for users themselves. The RSS News Feed app on Facebook's still around, so I think they're opening up to enabling that: http://www.facebook.com/apps...
- Jesse Stay
Also, see Facebook's latest news - their entire JS client library is now open source on GitHub: http://bit.ly/48FO1s
- Jesse Stay
Messina additional on IIW http://www.thesocialweb.tv/blog...
- Steve Gillmor
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Susan Beebe, Jack, Christian Burns and 15 other people liked this
What's the topic for today?
- Matt Mastracci
Threadsy. The Gillmor Gang should be great today. Google/Mr. Softy and Tw*tter...
- Cliff Gerrish
Matt: there are too many things to talk about today. Twitter. Flickr. Windows 7. Etc Etc.
- Robert Scoble
I'm standing by waiting for the Skype call, by the way.
- Robert Scoble
Exciting week... Mainstreaming of real-time search and a new Windows rev.
- Matt Mastracci
We are connecting everyone now. Just a few more minutes and we'll be on air.
- Robert Scoble
We are live!
- Robert Scoble
Everything is dead.
- Ken Sheppardson
Long live everything
- Mike Doeff
omg - people still using FF? :)
- Nick Halstead
isn't that what Friendfeed does?
- Karoli
No, it's different, Karoli. I've also used it a bit, and it's more of a "universal inbox" than FriendFeed. It's just a client, rather than a stand-alone service.
- Ken Sheppardson
Is there a recording of the Tim Berners-Lee conversation somewhere?
- Mike Doeff
thanks, Ken. It's one of those services that definitely interests me...if I ever get in. :)
- Karoli
Nick: I still use RSS too. Saying something is dead is dead.
- Robert Scoble
"Everything is Broken" -Bob Dylan
- Jerome Hughes
We individually kill and give life to things every day. I don't use Google Reader much anymore, for instance. So to me Google Reader is dead.
- Robert Scoble
I used to think I'd want a universal inbox, but stuff like Threadsy have reminded me that I really want different "layers"/urgency in my inbox, e.g. SMS > IM > email
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert, I still use Google Reader...but only when what I'm seeing on Twitter/Friendfeed doesn't feel balanced to me. I can usually get that balance by going back to GR.
- Karoli
Karoli: lists will bring that balance to Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Ken, I'd definitely need filters or I'd just run away from the inbox screaming...
- Karoli
I still use GR - but I have about 10 feeds - the rest I get supplied by Twitter/TweetMeme
- Nick Halstead
the issue i have with tweetmeme, etc is how easily the echo chamber develops. I love it, but want to reach outside of it for info sometimes.
- Karoli
Karoli: I agree - the core categories will always be full of the echo/main crowd - but we will soon launch the ability for you to build your own channels that are filtered to your 'exact' requirements
- Nick Halstead
Used Threadsy 2 weeks ago, and okay concept, needs work still.
- JimmyJet
In the demo yesterday, Microsoft claimed that their Bing/Twitter search results filter out spam and surfaces quality results based on "social relevance"
- Mike Doeff
because it's a beta for a few 1000s....wait for lists to be rolled out...
- Antonella Stellacci
Mike, they're weighting it based on some kind of authority?
- Karoli
so "normal" people don't want to find new friends who share their interests?
- Jerome Hughes
Whatever it is, it's got to work for 'normal' people.
- Cliff Gerrish
@mikedoeff: Who decides "social relevance"? @Scobleizer Who is to say that this "social relevance' will be a democratic system? How can we prevent a new SUL/TechCrunch to happen, with people being disqualified for having "different" views?
- Antonella Stellacci
They called it "social relevance" but didn't really drill into what that means. Maybe some combination of # of followers, number of tweets, age of the account, verified status, etc.
- Mike Doeff
When will "normal" people get access to Twitter lists? I don't have it on my account. I might start using Twitter if I did.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ah...there's the 'track' ref. It's like coming home. :)
- Karoli
Yeah, I'm not one of the cool kids who get the lists feature on Twitter. :)
- Karoli
Potential issue with Twitter lists: Someone posts a list of CIO's. Sales rep's from Oracle, SAP, etc. use that list to pitch their products to those CIO's with @messages or DM's. Or they could find all of the people inside a company by finding a company list. It'll be like a free version of Jigsaw.
- Mike Doeff
lists =meta-data....so discovery of new users is one of the options...
- Antonella Stellacci
@mike u can DM a list? (sry for the stupid question, I don't have lists :(
- Antonella Stellacci
Is there convergence on a standard for lists, or is it too early?
- Cliff Gerrish
I wonder which will win out: sending stuff out to specified groups/audiences, or just sending stuff out to "everyone", and having whatever permissions you've assigned to specific people determine whether or not they see it. I guess it's the same thing. Nevermind. ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Antonella, you can't DM a list but it's an easy way to collect twitter id's in a specific niche. You can go down the list and follow people individually.
- Mike Doeff
thanks Mike.
- Antonella Stellacci
Adding real username/URLs to Facebook was remedial.
- Ken Sheppardson
Cliff: Twitter will be the defacto list standard almost overnight.
- Robert Scoble
Mike: yes, @reply spam is a big problem. One that's solveable, though.
- Robert Scoble
Certainly, Identi.ca will follow suit, but will Facebook?
- Cliff Gerrish
And Mike, if a major company did @reply spam they would see a huge negative PR backlash.
- Robert Scoble
I wouldn't be so sure about Identica. Their feature set has already diverged from Twitter's. e.g. Groups http://identi.ca/doc/groups
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, they'll have to support both.
- Cliff Gerrish
Robert, I agree - would be a very bad move if PR firm, sales people, etc. abuse the lists features. They'll end up on a PR Twitter blacklist :)
- Mike Doeff
It centralizes with the user -- not with the services. This ties in to the purpose-centric web and the sidewiki discussion.
- Cliff Gerrish
So Threadsy isn't a service? Where's the line between services and clients?
- Ken Sheppardson
So will we see search come to Threadsy streams?
- JimmyJet
Is FriendFeed a client or a service?
- Ken Sheppardson
Mint is a front end to Yodlee.
- Cliff Gerrish
Kevin - send video.
- Cliff Gerrish
How long will it take Google to kill Threadsy with Gmail?
- Ken Sheppardson
Private room, Robert.
- Ken Sheppardson
Wonʻt Wave to that?
- Arnie Klaus
Robert: Click on your entry, click "Edit > Disable Comments"
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: no. I want my curation to be public. Arnie: Wave could be useful.
- Robert Scoble
Ken: if I turned off comments I won't have the ability to type anything underneath the item.
- Robert Scoble
Arnie: Wave would be useful if it weren't stuck in the very lame email metaphor.
- Robert Scoble
But is that all you want to do? Be able to add comments to your post without other people being able to do so? I'm a little confused...
- Ken Sheppardson
Arnie: Wave is something I'm watching a lot.
- Robert Scoble
Ken: I want to curate and put it on MY OWN STREAM. Without you being there.
- Robert Scoble
..or you want to use FriendFeed as a text editor?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: FriendFeed doesn't work for what I want.
- Robert Scoble
Ken: FriendFeed got close, though.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, as long as none of us have to read it. Go ahead and make your own stream.
- Cliff Gerrish
I keep hearing you say that, Robert. I'm trying to understand exactly what it means. What about a private room/group?
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert: I see a connect between Wave and the Twitter deal achieving curation
- Arnie Klaus
Ken: now you understannd why I'm so frustrated with FriendFeed. It won't get many new features.
- Robert Scoble
Arnie: me too.
- Robert Scoble
Wave traps me...I want the ability to opt out of specific waves.
- Karoli
Ken: Private groups don't do what I want. I want a public curation where everyone can watch JUST ME.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Would "only let me comment on this entry" do it?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: very close. But now we need to go further. Let me post a video there. An audio there. A picture there. And bring in other tweets and items.
- Robert Scoble
The reality is that no one's interested in 'only scoble' -- everyone wants to create their own mix.
- Cliff Gerrish
Robert: So... a room where only admins (i.e. you) can post and comment, but everyone can view?
- Ken Sheppardson
Cliff: absolutely not true. My blog proves you wrong.
- Robert Scoble
Ken: now you are getting there.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I'm only interested in certain posts from your blog. I don't need the whole stream. You're in my mix, you just don't know it.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: and to rub salt in a wound. Twitter proves you wrong.
- Robert Scoble
Every time Steve says, "Rob?" - I start to answer :)
- Rob La Gesse
Cliff: that's cool. So you are listening to a group curation then.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: That's a pretty minor incremental fix, I'd think. Right now there are three types of rooms 1) Private, 2) Standard only admins can post, anyone can comment, 3) Public. Seems like a fourth type where only admins can post/comment but everyone can view would be pretty easy.
- Ken Sheppardson
Hope Threadsy has security for the UN's/PW's they require for each service??
- JimmyJet
Scoble, yes. I use a microcommunity to filter items -- not full feeds.
- Cliff Gerrish
Ken: even easy stuff takes engineering time.
- Robert Scoble
Threadsy in Chrome gets a basic auth pop up from twitter.com for my API credentials every time it tries to access Twitter :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Cliff: I know. I have seen this. Sort of like how TechMeme works.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Sure, but asking Paul to add a fourth room type sure seems easier than casting out some general lazyweb request for curation tools ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Scoble, techmeme is read only. This is a little different.
- Cliff Gerrish
Ken: FriendFeed has no engineering team working on many new features. I've already asked for new features. I've been asking for this stuff for years.
- Robert Scoble
Ken: Threadsy in Chrome (4): I am no longer getting a request to relog or give permission to twitter. refreshing auto like it should
- amarquart
Does Facebook still prevent developers from caching data for more than 24hrs?
- Ken Sheppardson
Threadsy seems to define the pipe that exists between services. The Oauth issue is critical -- it comes bak to identity.
- Cliff Gerrish
Ken: I believe so.
- Robert Scoble
Windows is dead.
- Ken Sheppardson
Flickr is dead.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: Windows is Amazon's top seller. I want to be dead like that.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble, we are already giving curated content e.g. this channel that is defined by 20 of the top Twitterati - http://twitterati.tweetmeme.com/ - soon these channels can be built by anyone
- Nick Halstead
Ok - i didnt get in on this till now - will it be archived?
- Chris Jackson
Yeah, it'll be published to YouTube in a day or so.
- Cliff Gerrish
Nick: that's not really what I want?
- Robert Scoble
ok
- Chris Jackson
Any timeframe from Twitter on when us lowly masses will get lists?
- Ken Sheppardson
im still waiting for twitter lists to hit my account.
- Chris Jackson
let them eat cake! classic.
- amarquart
Ken: a few weeks.
- Robert Scoble
Can I trade Wave invites for List access?
- Ken Sheppardson
RSS???
- Ken Sheppardson
Steve and Robert - the Gillmor Gang has become my most favorite source of social news and trends watch.
- Chris Jackson
Thanks Chris!
- Robert Scoble
:) funny Ken
- Chris Jackson
Translation: No idea.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: translation: "FriendFeed is not worth wasting engineering effort on."
- Robert Scoble
Does Threadsy have any sort of Activitystrea.ms support?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: I don't know.
- Robert Scoble
Thanks, great show.
- JimmyJet
Thanks to Steve and all, nice to finally catch the show in real time again!
- Jerome Hughes
Good show
- Eric Logan
very good show...wish my phone hadn't rung at the end, but I still got my fix :)
- Karoli
The after show is pretty good too. Marks: why doesn't Twitter have searched scoped to the people I follow?
- Cliff Gerrish
Missed it again. I'll be back.
- Matt Terenzio
RSS?? (which we all know is dead, ..but still); mp3 ?? Steve, I understand your effort to make a point by inconveniencing us with lack of rss, I get it, but from that stage further it is just pain in the a**.
- Mindaugas Dagys
Thanks Ken, but the last bootleg there at the moment is GillmorGang2009.10.15
- Mindaugas Dagys
The RSS feed for the Youtube channel is http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds... and after a new show is uploaded there, I'll update the bootleg feed
- Jack
Adding to the 1980s photo meme: Here are my 1983 and 1985 contributions. :-)
ffcode, Felicia Yue, rowlikeagirl and 66 other people liked this
Awesome Louis! :)
- Nicholas Kreidberg
H-O-T
- Mona Nomura
Nice bowtie!!! I LOVE bowties.
- Mattie Kenny
Don't make me pull out my 1980s Speedo pics!
- Jesse Stay
Awww... :))
- Anna Haro
Look at that young go-getter!
- Mo Kargas
LOVE.
- Derrick
omg. so cuuuuuute
- Erin @queenofspain
Cute photos. :-)
- Håkan Dahlström
Wife says, "Oh no, not the little nerd photos." Oh yeah, where is her FriendFeed account and photos? Hmmm?
- Louis Gray
haha so confused, half nerd, half cool kid, ya thats louis
- sean percival
اینجا رو =)))
- 1Fathi
Louis: She's got her defense sorted out with no account eh? :D Maybe if you're in for a bit of risk taking.... post hers! :D
- Mo Kargas
Love these. That first one is so fantastic.
- Ayşe E.
Yep, that fist pic is so much WIN. :D
- Anna Haro
OMG that first one is tooooooo cute!
- Adriana
*bump*
- Rodfather
It is definitely you ;)
- Alp
Both great pics
- Mo Kargas
Awesome! The bowtie is perfect!!!!
- Rachel Lea Fox
you look very smart even then
- Thomas Power
One of mine, from '81, I think http://twitpic.com/27xn
- Rob La Gesse
that first pic is absolute 100% undiluted WIN Louis!
- Parth Awasthi
Bump for good times.
- Mark Krynsky
yes a geek
- Thomas Power
Why Twitter's lists are, @jackdwilliams asked, going to cause companies trouble:
Keith - @tsudo, Brendan, Daniel Rowley and 6 other people liked this
Now that ANYONE can make a list of corporate employees it's VERY easy for the public to watch a group and make judgments about that group. So, if you have a bunch of employees all talking about Dallas football, your customers are making judgments about whether they want to do business with them.
- Robert Scoble
LOL you're posting without even posting the answer
- Loic Le Meur
Loic: I just posted the answer.
- Robert Scoble
So, if your employees all start posting their political views, for instance, won't that cause trouble? "I don't want to do business with that company, it sounds like a bunch of xxxxxxxxx."
- Robert Scoble
ad hoc lists also provides information for the social engineering side of the malware crowd
- WarLord
Maybe there should be a way for people to remove themselves from lists once it goes public. Seems like a relatively small concern, but then again I might be more open-minded than the average sheep. ;)
- Nicholas Cole
Also, what if there is brand disonance? It was hard to watch before AS A GROUP. But now? I already have a group list of Rackspace that has 200 employees on it and that isn't even finished yet. So, now you'll be able to study us as a group in a much easier way than before.
- Robert Scoble
Businesses are built on people - so having a personality is not in and of itself a bad thing (actually, I prefer it to a total lack of personality). But that being said, it is the funneling of these Tweets into one channel that develops an overall "sense" of a company that may or may not be what you intend.
- Rob La Gesse
Nicholas: you can remove yourself from lists.
- Robert Scoble
You can block the list curator and you will not be on their list
- Brian Ahier
This is where the trick of corporate versus personal accounts comes in.
- joebrooks
Oh, cool. I haven't been listed on any yet which is why I haven't noticed, heh.
- Nicholas Cole
Rob: right. Like I said, I hope you hired smart people (Rackspace did) because if you didn't your customers will be able to see right through that.
- Robert Scoble
joebrooks: the problem is that Twitter is more personal than corporate. I recommend always behaving online as if you are a corporate representative anyway. Even behind closed doors or on Facebook. That way you never are bitten.
- Robert Scoble
Ultimately having employees that do not reflect the values of the company will come out - social media only accelerates the process
- Brian Ahier
Nicholas: what's your Twitter account? I'll go see if I can put you on a list. Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
just added http://twitter.com/bithaze to my technology list :-)
- Brian Ahier
Rob: exactly..the real problem will be with the employees, not the employers. Particularly with employers who aren't hip to social networking and the workplace...those that embrace it could use the group function as a powerful means of demonstrating diversity, flexibility, identity
- Chad Gesser
from iPhone
The attitude in this part of the world (Middle East) is "I don't want anyone to see my employees" so this is going to fail, at least in the short term, here. There's going to be a walloping, and fast-growing, disconnect. *sigh*
- Alexander McNabb
Any company that ONLY hires like-minded employees is a company destined to stagnate and fail. How you train and encourage those outliers to communicate will make you or break you. You NEED that discourse to grow. But it doesn't have to be public discourse (and rarely is it beneficial when it is).
- Rob La Gesse
Alexander: companies that get Twitter's power to build better customer-employee relations (which brings a LOT of goodness) will do better than those that stick their head in the sand.
- Robert Scoble
It is one thing to have diverrsity of viewpoint, but another altogether to not reflect "values" - anyone that doesn't do business with a company because their employees root for fottball teams or political parties is not thinking very clearly IMHO
- Brian Ahier
interesting to think how I could actually use this as a real time microblogging/qualitative research tool...combining it with text g and smartphones :)
- Chad Gesser
from iPhone
Brian got it right, I'm @bithaze. I see the link now; thanks for pointing it out. Feel free to remove if you'd like; I'm not trying to stroke my own feathers here for the sake of testing. :)
- Nicholas Cole
@Brian, but that happens *all* the time. The movie star or singer that expresses a political viewpoint gets abandoned by those who disagree.
- Brent Logan
Robert. Totally agree, but we're behind here. We're behind in connectivity, attitude towards business and customers (many businesses are sole distributors) and particularly towards transparency. We have some leaders, but all too few. And lists is going to scare many away, I fear. I hope not, but I fear.
- Alexander McNabb
I'm bored about friendfeed :-) you will be the only one using it soon!
- Loic Le Meur
Nicholas: I read through some of your tweets and will keep you in the stream for a while :-) you look interesting...
- Brian Ahier
Alexander: that's OK, because it will give the great companies room to get PR credit while the bad ones look lame.
- Robert Scoble
I don't have the lists feature yet. But I think it is great. Allows people like me to follow the favorites even if we might be following tens of thousands.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Is it transparency, or co-opting employees to make them be corporate droids 24/7?
- Brent Logan
Brilliant! "it will give the great companies room to get PR credit while the bad ones look lame"
- Brian Ahier
We had quite a debate at my hospital on whether to block social media - fortunately brighter minds prevailed
- Brian Ahier
Robert: LOL. Yes, true. Oddly enough the hotel sector here in UAE embraced Twitter first and fastest, so let's see what they make of lists! The telcos are just starting to climb on board... and many are learning, the hard way, that the old one-way model of advertising don't work on social platforms. Which provides occasional amusement...
- Alexander McNabb
Blocking social media is so stupid.
- Paramendra Bhagat
If lists is built in a way that it lets me focus on different people/topics depending on the task I am currently engaged in - I will love it. Since I don't have it, I am not sure yet.
- Rob La Gesse
What Rob said.
- Alexander McNabb
Curation aggregators like http://listorious.com will make the job easier
- Brian Ahier
Rob. You build your own lists. So you decide. But I don't have it yet either. But I know.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Rob: How do you mean? Lists are fairly arbitrary so I'm not sure I understand what specifically you have in mind.
- Nicholas Cole
Lists of corporate employees will typically only be a subset of those employees (the ones on Twitter) and thus can't be expected to represent the whole company regardless
- Eric Andersen
I could build one list of people I work with, another of people with whom I might share a hobby, a third of people who are close friend, the fourth of my favorite web stars, people like Scoble.
- Paramendra Bhagat
"I don't know what I can't touch". So I don;t know how lists will fit in my work-flow - which changes drastically from 8-12 am, 12-5pm, and then again from 5pm-12am - and beyond.
- Rob La Gesse
One of the powerful features of Lists is the ability to follow other list streams - listreams (to coin a term)
- Brian Ahier
The issue Robert brings up only applies to very small companies I think.
- Eric Andersen
So you can follow lists created by other people, you mean?
- Paramendra Bhagat
BTW you *can* remove yourself from a list - simply block the list owner.
- Eric Andersen
I wish you could do it without blocking the owner.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Paramendra: I have built some good lists and follow a few really great ones created by others as well
- Brian Ahier
Agree - should be able to opt out of lists without blocking or unfollowing.
- Rob La Gesse
I don't think in the end you will need to block the owner, just their ability to put you on a list... There will eventually be a setting that will allow you to approve before being added to lists if you choose
- Brian Ahier
Paramendra: Yes, you can follow others' lists. It just adds a link to their list in your /home sidebar.
- Nicholas Cole
Brian. I don't have the lists feature yet. So I can only express jealousy. ;-)
- Paramendra Bhagat
Nic. I can't wait to get the lists feature for me. I have only read about it so far. I guess they are rolling from the west. I am on the east coast.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Rob: blocking a list just is that, removing yourself from a list.
- Robert Scoble
My best lists if you have the feature: Healthcare: http://twitter.com/ahier... - Official Government accounts: http://twitter.com/ahier... - Every hospital on Twitter: http://twitter.com/ahier...
- Brian Ahier
Any smart ideas for getting on the Lists beta? If they're rolling out from the east coast, Dubai'll be getting access next winter...
- Alexander McNabb
Paramendra: the list feature was delivered to a few thousand randomly-chosen Twitter users. Plus a few dozen tech bloggers and influentials.
- Robert Scoble
Alexander: no way to get people onto the beta, sorry.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: So if you block a list you do not block the owner? cool!
- Brian Ahier
Alexander. I just made that up. I don't think they are doing it exactly that way, but it sure feels that way to me.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Robert. I can't wait.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Brian. Good work. Keep building them.
- Paramendra Bhagat
I was pretty happy when Tim O'Reilly put me on his Mindcaster list - being followed is cool but being listed is even better :-D
- Brian Ahier
This is so interesting - wracking my brain thinking about how to demystify for small businesses. There's definitely an aspect to lists that could simplify things for companies that are new to Twitter...but it could also be a new form of chaos and complexity that will confuse the hell out of many.
- Alex Hawkinson
Twitter should keep growing to add more and more new features like this one, first perhaps put out there by independent Twitter clients/apps.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Anyone know when Lists will be exposed via the API?
- Alex Hawkinson
Some of the most awaited betas I have ever gotten into have ended up underwhelming. So I can wait for Lists. Remember Joost? I barely do.
- Rob La Gesse
So Robert. Have lists fundamentally changed your Twitter experience?
- Paramendra Bhagat
Paramendra: absolutely.
- Robert Scoble
Robert. Good to know. That is what I was guessing.
- Paramendra Bhagat
'sokay, Paramendra. I thought I'd try for the sympathy vote... :) From what I can see of Lists it could be massive, though... Even if we'll be slow to use it, which will lag adoption because much of Twitter's utility comes from scale, no?
- Alexander McNabb
Brian: Steve Case put me on his special list. I'll tell ya THAT was a big ego boost.
- Robert Scoble
I think tags would have been more interesting than lists. Then I could create search groups that include multiple tags - without including everyone in the lists.
- Rob La Gesse
Rob. Lists have been tried and tested on the likes of TweetDeck. They are as fundamental to me as the RT option. Lists will be a hit.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Robert. Why are you surprised to be on Steve Case' list? You are big. Don't you know?
- Paramendra Bhagat
Rob: lists ARE tags. Think about it.
- Robert Scoble
I am sure lists will be a hit - hell, ANY new feature in Twitter is a hit (because there are so few of them!) :)
- Rob La Gesse
Paramendra: I'm a fan boy as much as anyone.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Yeah, it will be very interesting to see how folks behave when it goes public and people find out what lists they are on, and what lists they are NOT on ;-)
- Brian Ahier
Rob: you might have to eat your words when the new RT feature comes out. I hear that is VERY controversial.
- Robert Scoble
I've been thinking that about tags too, Rob. Also, maybe it's just another layer of abstraction, but public and private seem a little too... polar for my likes.
- Nicholas Cole
Robert: You're not a fan boy....you HAVE fan boys.
- Sean Montgomery
Scoble - no, I don't think so - lists are much less granular. (from what I hear)
- Rob La Gesse
Scoble - I often eat my words. That is why I make sure they are all extra tasty :)
- Rob La Gesse
Robert. Steve Case follows me. That happened because I explicitly asked him to. :-) I knew I was not going to be famous fast enough. So I plain asked.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Rob: they are less granular because you are limited to 20 of them. :-)
- Robert Scoble
I have a private list because I don't want to be divisive on certain issues...
- Brian Ahier
You are limited to 20 lists? Wow.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Brian: I deleted a few lists already because they would make people feel bad. Especially one called "people I've met." There is NO WAY I can remember everyone I've met so I would take a lot of shit about that.
- Robert Scoble
Paramendra: per Twitter account. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Why would the RT feature be controversial? It is so mainstream.
- Paramendra Bhagat
WIth tags I could create a follow group of "met, boulder, fun, beer, interesting" - how do I do THAT with lists?
- Rob La Gesse
Robert. I have only one Twitter account. I like it that way. But 20 are enough, if you ask me.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Robert: 20 lists limit aside, there are some list ideas I have that I want to share with only certain people, but I feel like that defeats the purpose of lists. And Twitter doesn't really identifying information like networks that Facebook, for example, does.
- Nicholas Cole
I have 9 Twitter accounts - 20 are nowhere near enough :)
- Rob La Gesse
(all but one of those are job-related)
- Rob La Gesse
Rob: You can do that with lists, but you'd quickly run out of lists if the limit stays.
- Nicholas Cole
Lists will also help to score influence. Scoble is listed on 327 lists so far (the most I have seen yet)! A ratio of list membership to number of followers will be a new metric for authority...
- Brian Ahier
How many people can you add to any one list? As many as you want?
- Paramendra Bhagat
Rob: create five lists and put me on all five. :-)
- Robert Scoble
I think the 500 limit was lifted - I saw one today that over 900
- Brian Ahier
Brian. You are right about that new metric of authority.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Nicholas - exactly - that's why I would have done tags first. Easy to creat lists based on tags. Harder to create meaningful tags based on lists.
- Rob La Gesse
Brian: really? That's cool!
- Robert Scoble
I haven't heard anything about a per-list follows list. Then again I haven't gone around adding hundreds of people to a list since I only follow a small handful right now.
- Nicholas Cole
Scoble. All you do is talk. How do you get so popular? .... Kidding. I know how.
- Paramendra Bhagat
You become popular because you really, truly "get" social media.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Paramendra: I share my fame. That gets me more. Ask anyone who's been on my Twitter account or on our videos.
- Robert Scoble
Ah - why is Scoble popular? Someone should write the book. I'm starting to feel qualified :P
- Rob La Gesse
Rob: Conceptually, I guess lists and tags are similar. I just have this nagging feeling that they're distinct, though I can't quite explain why.
- Nicholas Cole
The account had created a list with all their >900 followers on a list - it was strangely compelling...
- Brian Ahier
Add me to your Twitter account. :-) That is how I got on Steve Case' Twitter account. I am paramendra on Twitter. My first name.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Nicholas. You lose with with the tags talk.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Paramendra: I can't follow more people tonight.
- Robert Scoble
paramendra you are on 5 lists now...
- Brian Ahier
Scoble: Okay. Tomorrow then. :-)
- Paramendra Bhagat
Well, I'll follow you anyway Paramendra. :) Sucks as a consolation prize, I know... :)
- Alexander McNabb
Brian. I am on 5 lists. Wow?
- Paramendra Bhagat
Lists and tags are NOT similar. You can assign multiple tags, or a single tag to an individual, then group those into lists in really interesting ways. If you try to group lists, you are grouping the entire list - not ust based on sub-tags that are more defining.
- Rob La Gesse
Alexander. Much appreciated.
- Paramendra Bhagat
One site has me as Twitter number 12 in NYC. NYC Twitter Elite.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Paramendra: Lose with? Not sure if you actually mean "with" or if you just typed it twice accidentally.
- Nicholas Cole
Demi Moore and I signed up on Twitter the same day.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Am I on any lists? I don't have lists yet, so I have no way of knowing...
- Dennis Jernberg
Tags are more granular - just like in Wordpress. Categories are less granular. Categories are lists.
- Rob La Gesse
Paramendra: @winland/blogsbookswriters @sdweathers/worldfriends @PeractoVita/friends @happybanana/bananas @ahier/technology
- Brian Ahier
Rob: I think that's it. Hierarchical lists. And Dennis, you're on eight lists. :)
- Nicholas Cole
Dennis: you are on eight lists already.
- Robert Scoble
I am @ahier
- Brian Ahier
Brian. Thanks. I will look up as soon as Twitter allows me to.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Got ya.
- Paramendra Bhagat
So I want to start a list (if only I could) called, "Scoble's next boss" :)
- Rob La Gesse
HE would NOT be in the list, of course :)
- Rob La Gesse
Rob: heheh.
- Robert Scoble
Well, I'm off to play with the kids. See ya.
- Robert Scoble
Brian. I tried to follow you. But looks like just like Scoble I can't follow any more people tonight.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Nite, Scobes
- Rob La Gesse
Robert - you are now 328! (just included you in journalists - new media is the new journalism)
- Brian Ahier
Scoble. Have fun. You make FriendFeed happen.
- Paramendra Bhagat
Scoble leaves, thread dies?
- Rob La Gesse
Nite all - thanks for the great convo
- Brian Ahier
Speaking of how many times a person is listed, I don't like how it also counts lists made by that same user. Kind of self-aggrandizing, no? :P
- Nicholas Cole
Well, isn;t that what Twitter is for? :)
- Rob La Gesse
Thank you Robert for the response and deeper insight into responsible Twitter dialog and new lists feature, hmmm I'm going to keep being myself and hopefully customers will not punt my employeer because I offend or defend something I personally dig or oppose. Rock on!
- j a c k Williams
True, Rob, but those are self-nominations, not really organic ones.
- Nicholas Cole
Welcome to the future of Twitter.
- Rob La Gesse
The future is now.
- Paramendra Bhagat
And there is no escaping it - because we don;t really control it.
- Rob La Gesse
Guess I am out as well. Midnight on a Monday :) Take care, all.
- Rob La Gesse
twitter being a better, more effective product is a challenge like all good opportunities :)
- Mike Chelen
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Daniel Chow, Michael Pinto, Troy Benohanian and 7 other people liked this
We are close to being live now. Just a couple more minutes.
- Robert Scoble
http://twitter.com/dens Dennis Crowley, co-founder of Foursquare is our special guest.
- Robert Scoble
I'm still not clear on what's good about this...
- Cliff Gerrish
please ask Dennis when Foursquare will roll out in europe
- HansVanRock
Cliff: there are three things that I get out of Foursquare: 1. I see what my friends are doing. That lets me meet them in real life and keep track of what they are doing. 2. It's a game, so I can play it to compete with my friends. 3. I can get tips from my friends for the location that I currently am at.
- Robert Scoble
Hans: it just launched in London last week.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, the tips seem good. Do you need to check in to get them?
- Cliff Gerrish
Checking-in is like closing the "sales" loop for venues. FourSquare is a disruptor in mobile marketing and users are happy and engaged....
- Antonella Stellacci
Cliff: yes. Because checking in is how you tell the system where you are.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: London i don´t consider as europe, it´s an island lost at sea ;-)
- HansVanRock
re new places, check their blog http://foursquare.tumblr.com/post... for a list of new cities
- Antonella Stellacci
Can you privately check in, or is it alway a public gesture.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: yes. You can keep your location secret.
- Robert Scoble
HansVanRock: They also have Amsterdam.
- 321
321: who will be brave enough to check in at a coffee shop? :-)
- Robert Scoble
:-)/
- HansVanRock
Geolocation, augmented reality, etc. Foursquare seems like a simple entre to this world.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: it looks simple, just like Twitter looks simple. But that's deceiving.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I meant 'simple' in the most complimentary way. Simple works.
- Cliff Gerrish
Regarding real people in augmented reality, check this out: http://blog.brightkite.com/2009...
- Martin May
Mobile advertising is a multi-billion dollars business. ....even Twitter with geo-location API and Facebook mobile will want a share of it..
- Antonella Stellacci
Loop and latency are also key elements.
- Cliff Gerrish
Hey, Gillmor, nice camera angle of your studio!
- Robert Scoble
Are these features or companies?
- Cliff Gerrish
widgets will soon start talking to each other and exchanging data. that's when user constructed solutions start getting interesting.
- scott anderson
Are there enough economics in a distributed widget mesh?
- Cliff Gerrish
widgets will be front end for services. that's where the economics come from.
- scott anderson
If you wrap up 5 widgets in a package - high risk, great leverage, low economics
- Cliff Gerrish
If you are dependent on more systems, doesn't that increase your risk? It seems like it's a downside unless you have failover to other services
- Martin May
Do we really want our phones making decisions for us? No matter how much context they have...
- Cliff Gerrish
Thanks for adding San Antonio, @dens!
- Robert J Taylor
Cliff - they are making suggestions, not decisions.
- Rob La Gesse
A better frame might be, here are the place gestures your social graph has generated. Does that suggest anything to you...
- Cliff Gerrish
that's super smart :)
- Antonella Stellacci
Have any houses been broken into based on negative location information?
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: I heard of one, because of a Facebook post (or it was just a bad coincidence). But I've also heard of thieves getting caught because of Google Latitude.
- Robert Scoble
As long as thieves are also on foursquare and check in as they are robbing your place -- I guess that's ok...
- Cliff Gerrish
No 4square in Reno yet. So there must be a population threshold for cities covered at this point?
- ursi
Cliff: if someone tries breaking into my house while I'm not here they might be a little shocked. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Homeless people will "check in" the easy mark homes for their roaming buddies...
- Robert J Taylor
Aren't explicit place gestures fictional? That's their important social information content...
- Cliff Gerrish
I'd love to be able to check in on the Gillmor Gang.
- Robert Scoble
Sounds a lot like MS Mesh...
- Cliff Gerrish
Right...but the tough part is "verifying" that a person is actually at a certain place. You can make it difficult to spoof, though.
- Martin May
We're working on some interesting stuff with QR codes to do that.
- Martin May
Identity becomes a real key here.
- Cliff Gerrish
Good thoughts...totally agree with @dens
- Martin May
Steve - I like the new "studio cam" view
- Rob La Gesse
Do we run into the Facebook Beacon problem here?
- Cliff Gerrish
Steve - I like the studio cam view, too: http://img.skitch.com/2009101... (color me green for jealousy!)
- Robert J Taylor
yes, i also liked the cam angle: http://twitpic.com/lnkdg ..... great show Steve & guests!
- HansVanRock
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Susan Beebe, Michael Pinto, Ankush Narula and 11 other people liked this
I hear Phil Windley and Craig Burton are going to be on today's Gillmor Gang.
- Cliff Gerrish
Sounds like a great show!
- Rob La Gesse
Hi Steve
- Keith Teare
i've been missing the live action but the transcript from the last show was a fun read
- Brian Hendrickson
"[Google] Wave is saying, okay, our structure model is (unintelligible) " lol @kevinmarks http://bh.ly/0w
- Brian Hendrickson
@Scobleizer - got a Wave invite for me?
- Keith Teare
i want a wave invite...she whined.
- Karoli
Does whinining work?
- Cliff Gerrish
guess we're going to find out. LOL
- Karoli
So the discussion is SideWiki, not Wave -- Google still the topic.
- Cliff Gerrish
SideWiki is a blogging tool.
- Kevin Marks
wonder when SideWiki will come to my chrome. want it.
- Christopher Harris
I was just about to say that. SideWiki. . .
- Ron Hudson
Although, it's not really a wiki.
- Cliff Gerrish
dont believe the hype ;)
- sull
Seems like SideWiki, Echo and Disqus all do something similar.
- Cliff Gerrish
The web will become like Wings of Desire - We will all be able to listen to everyone's mind.
- Arnie Klaus
Just wrote a Sidewiki entry on "Category Archives: Real-time" http://bit.ly/12HDF
- Ron Hudson
We are thinking about you!
- Arnie Klaus
Amorphous
- Arnie Klaus
you guys should call up Leo Laporte and bring him into this conversation
- Brian Hendrickson
I don't even understand the concept of chat gathered around the Gillmor Gang any more. Do they mean the comments on this post?
- Matt Terenzio
Tina says KEVIN NEEDS TO SLOW DOWN!
- Cliff Gerrish
invisible backchannels
- Kevin Marks
Okay.
- Matt Terenzio
sorry wasn't making fun of you kevin!
- Brian Hendrickson
The difference between Sidewiki and Echo and Disqus is that Disqus and Echo give control over what get displayed to blog owner.
- Robert Scoble
I wrote a side wiki for the /realtime page. There is no way to edit it?
- Ron Hudson
But Sidewiki isn't something you add to your blog, it's just a portal that a small subset of users use to look at it
- Brian Hendrickson
I'd like to see SideWiki allow WebHooks, so when you submit a post it can also update another service ... Kind of like Posterous
- Ideas At Random
Control is an illusion.
- Cliff Gerrish
Echo and Disqus can bring the sidewiki feed back into it
- Kevin Marks
I's not controlling conversation I object to just reaching across a network and changing the way my content is displayed. I have no objections to a client side mashup or even a peer to peer
- Matt Terenzio
You do have control over what you write. You don't have control over what OTHER PEOPLE write.
- Ken Sheppardson
SideWiki is MOST dangerous because it isn't RSS-enabled, and there's no way to properly monitor it.
- Ike Pigott
SideWiki has a feed for every page and for every user, wrong Ike
- Kevin Marks
Y'all realize Diigo has been doing this same thing for a couple years now, right? Folks just haven't objected because they don't know about it. There will *always* be side converasations you don't know about that you can't control.
- Ken Sheppardson
framing is wrong. I format my content to browser size (just devil's advocate, I don't do that)
- Matt Terenzio
Kevin, I have yet to see the feed.
- Ike Pigott
It's not "framing", it's a browser add-in. Only those who've chosen to install the "app" see it.
- Ken Sheppardson
Scoble seems to advocate ignorance as a blissful state.
- Cliff Gerrish
Nice nodes, Robert
- Ross Mayfield
what do you want a feed for, Ike? Which page?
- Kevin Marks
Gillmor suggests by his actions just now that there needs to be a judge(ment). Where is the referee.
- Arnie Klaus
You could build a similar service that displays the comments from FriendFeed related to a specific page in the sidebar. IT's the same API http://ffcheck.com uses. Would you object to that, Robert?
- Ken Sheppardson
I'd be interesting if SideWiki was a wiki
- Ross Mayfield
why would that make you interesting?
- Brian Hendrickson
as long as they don't change the display of my content, I think it's fine.
- Matt Terenzio
SideWiki is really more of a palimpsest.
- Cliff Gerrish
What is the difference between sidewiki and just twittering with a #scobleizer tag?
- Ron Hudson
I am choosing to go to site A and I am choosing to install sidewiki. Why should site A control what I see there?
- Ryan
You still have control over that frame, Robert. You don't (i.e. shouldn't) have control over my sidebar.
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm stuck on bandaid.
- Jay Cuthrell
cuz bandaid's stuck on me
- Jay Cuthrell
Yeah, Ken you are right
- Matt Terenzio
Robert - remember when I closed my FriendFeed account and you argued that I deleted YOUR comments stream?
- Rob La Gesse
Nobody's modifying what you're trying to display. There's a supplemental app that's displaying additional information about your page, Robert. And you have nothing to say about it, nor should you.
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert's totally right. Rock on
- Stephen Pickering
Ken, bullshit
- Stephen Pickering
You'll have to make a logical argument, Stephen. Epithets don't work.
- Ken Sheppardson
It's his page
- Stephen Pickering
It's my browser and desktop.
- Ken Sheppardson
That was MY post that the comments were attached to. I deleted that linkage - which affected you, and you were pissed :)
- Rob La Gesse
It's defacing his page
- Stephen Pickering
Kevin, I just tried plugging URLs into that API, and it doesn't pull.
- Ike Pigott
He delivered his page to my browser the way he wanted, once on my browser I can do anything to it
- Ryan
you need to escape the :// stuff
- Kevin Marks
Google Toolbar = evil :)
- Rob La Gesse
Aren't all audiences shared, and the audience owns itself?
- Ross Mayfield
You already do anything you want with pages in your browser.
- Cliff Gerrish
But ken if a plugin said, here Google take this page I want and add all the extra metadata to it and return it to me. That is wrong. It's different than a local client gathering content and displaying the way the enduser wants. technicality, but that is law. and I'm no lawyer
- Matt Terenzio
sidewiki isn't part of anybody's blog. it is an abstraction layer that becomes visible when a sidewiki user visits the blog
- Keith Teare
Do I have the "right" to install ad-blocking plugins? Do I have the "right' to install Greasemonkey or Stylish to change fonts and background colors?
- Ken Sheppardson
I did escape it: http://www.google.com/sidewik...
- Ike Pigott
Robert is trying to say sidewiki is like yelp gluing reviews to restaurant doors.
- Ron Hudson
Sidewiki is defacement
- Stephen Pickering
Yeah, why do all these geeks even have Google toolbar, anyway?
- Matt Terenzio
Who needs Sidewiki?
- Jonathan Brown
no, you need the full URL with trailing slashes and everything
- Kevin Marks
Spamwiki?
- Arnie Klaus
No one
- Stephen Pickering
actually, Robert's password IS his phone number :)
- Robert J Taylor
But *I* as the reader, am the one making the choice to "deface" the page. It's not as if every visitor is being forced to read those comments. It's MY CHOICE to see them.
- Ken Sheppardson
I did that too, Kevin. It didn't resolve, didn't pull in the very comment I left.
- Ike Pigott
100% correct Ken
- Ryan
SideWike is Google stepping in the same pile of dogshit that others have stepped in before.
- Rob La Gesse
Imagine if Yelp went around gluing reviews to restaurant windows! Absurd!
- Ron Hudson
There's money in blogs?
- Jay Cuthrell
How about Instapaper, which bookmarks your page and reformats it for mobile browsing. Is that "allowed"?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken that would be fine if you were the only one who could read your defacement or see it
- Stephen Pickering
I feel VERY sorry for the first company to get hammered in SideWiki during crisis communications.
- Ike Pigott
Your defacing it and the public can see it
- Stephen Pickering
Robert we are with you.
- Ron Hudson
btw, I'm using Sidewiki on this FriendFeed page
- Ross Mayfield
No you are not Stephen, if someone doesn't have sidewiki installed they can't see it
- Ryan
Ike, they will be hammered somewhere else anyway
- Kevin Marks
No, it's not the "public", it's all those users who've made the choice to view a conversation in a sidebar related to your page.
- Ken Sheppardson
Not defacing the site - but MOVING the conversation - which affects branding, value, etc
- Rob La Gesse
so its not defacement for all
- Ryan
But if they do have sidewiki they do
- Stephen Pickering
So you don't ever talk about blog posts or web pages on FriendFeed then, right, Stephen?
- Ken Sheppardson
then they choose to see that content, it wasn't forced on them
- Ryan
OK, at the count of three, everyone uninstall Google Toolbar. Then they will just build it into Firefox. And BECOME MS
- Rob La Gesse
Kevin, you're right -- but THOSE posts and comments will be more easily sortable, findable, and addressable. SideWiki is way too chaotic. And since all the SideWiki comments live on GOOGLE domain, they will show up in search eventually!
- Ike Pigott
Ken, hell yes, I do, but that's on FriendFeed and not on somebody's site
- Stephen Pickering
"we had no choice" is the critical aspect that isn't being addressed by wider audiences
- Jay Cuthrell
yes Ken, but just because you ask me, I can't legally send a copy of something to you. Not saying they do this here, but I bet they want to soon if they mix it with search data and deliver ads, for example
- Matt Terenzio
If I told you that I was using the FriendFeed API to retrieve and display all conversations related to the page I'm visiting in my sidebar, would you object to that, Stephen? See http://ffcheck.com
- Ken Sheppardson
They don't all live on Google's domain - that was my point about http://oneforty.com where SideWiki shows the TechCrunch RWW et al posts
- Kevin Marks
people who publish web pages need to host a more friendfeed-like discussion experience if they want to counter the sidewiki effect
- Brian Hendrickson
Steve - that IS an economically feasible plan
- Rob La Gesse
I just made a comment on this chat using side wiki http://bit.ly/V8TWq but I don't see anyone else's
- Ron Hudson
Ron - what I said
- Brian Hendrickson
Quoting @GinaTrapani: "Prediction: Google Sidewiki will go the way of Google Knol (ie, you'll never hear about it again)"
- Mike Doeff
SideWiki is poised to become Yahoo message boards or YouTube comments
- Robert J Taylor
SideWiki is so Cuil.
- Ike Pigott
Good. There will be a hell of a push back if it does take off
- Stephen Pickering
This whole industry that attempts to monetize content by framing it in a particular context, i.e. wrapped by ads, is sorta doomed, IMHO. In the long run.
- Ken Sheppardson
Brian I don't see your posts. just mine
- Ron Hudson
Yeah, so what's next, Ken, Google will put its own ads on my site?
- Stephen Pickering
No. I'm saying ads are dead.
- Ken Sheppardson
I posted a direct link to a Sidewiki comment I added here.
- Ike Pigott
please move on.
- sull
Ike - when I clicked the link then I saw your link, but not mine or anyone else's
- Ron Hudson
everything is a "backchannel"
- sull
Ron, I refreshed the page, and no one else's SideWiki entries are displayed.
- Ike Pigott
Don't backchannel me bro!
- Robert Scoble
Which URL did you use, Ike? I think there are number of different URLs/views.
- Ken Sheppardson
Scoble uses the backchannel to request we not backchannel him.
- Cliff Gerrish
Life is a backchannel.
- Ken Sheppardson
I have no idea what that means.
- Ken Sheppardson
"Don't backchannel me bro!" tshirts would sell well I bet.
- Jay Cuthrell
"Don't backchannel me bro! - Robert Scoble" - heh
- Rob La Gesse
pretty soon we won't know what is true and who said it! we are doomed!
- Matt Terenzio
What about DotSpots? Introduced at least year's TC 50 and finally launched a few weeks ago... http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Mike Doeff
I have to take several ibuprofen every day for my backchannel problem.
- Jerry Schuman
Ken, find me the feed for this link: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_b...
- Ike Pigott
SideWiki turns blogs into Fox News
- Rob La Gesse
Mike -- DotSpots is the same issue as well. Very good catch.
- Jay Cuthrell
So, what does SideWiki with Wikipedia mean?
- Robert J Taylor
Sidewiki is the new standard for comments on all websites. Just install a Wordpress plugin for bringing Sidewiki entries into your blog comments.
- Charbax
I see yours now Ike, I commented on a different url. SideWiki #fail
- Ron Hudson
No Rob... SideWiki turns blogs into subway cars, in a town that sells permanent infrared spraypaint.
- Ike Pigott
All systems need calibration or the noise takes over.
- Arnie Klaus
ooooookay
- Jay Cuthrell
we know that, but is it legal?
- Matt Terenzio
Ike - nice
- Rob La Gesse
"You're so 10 mins ago" <- this is Real Time, after all :)
- Robert J Taylor
knew VRM would make it in here!
- Matt Terenzio
Sidewiki will never take off and even if it does, there will be so much push back just like the digg framer that they will discontinue it
- Stephen Pickering
Jay, yeah DotSpots raises the same issues but nobody is talking about them because they're relatively unknown (unlike Google)
- Mike Doeff
I hope Google puts SideWiki in Firefox. That will be the start of the anti-trust investigation
- Rob La Gesse
Sidewiki or something like it will absolutely take off, you just won't know about it.
- Ken Sheppardson
I see the other comments now
- Ron Hudson
Can't we sell in the sidewiki?
- Arnie Klaus
My browser is not your place of business, Robert.
- Ken Sheppardson
plugin functionality is quickly being surpassed by things like Comet/AJAX, so what's next.. who can write AJAX?
- Jerry Schuman
but my site is my place of business (so to speak)
- Robert J Taylor
Your browser isn't but when you can use it to deface his website, it is his place of business
- Stephen Pickering
Jeez... we're going in circles yet again..
- Ken Sheppardson
Google isn't as well known as we'd like to think. Sidewiki should be enabled on every news article ever created. Every news article should have a Wikipedia stub. If Google assists, fine... but I'd rather see the overlay be outside control of any one company.
- Jay Cuthrell
Friendfeed can easily bring sidewiki entries inside friendfeeds feeds
- Charbax
I wish that death spiral would accelerate.
- Jerry Schuman
I'm drawing a moustache on Robert Scoble right now.
- Cliff Gerrish
This is about as useful as wave. I'm out.
- Ron Hudson
Charbax: And FriendFeed in a sidebar can essentialy replace Sidewiki
- Ken Sheppardson
There will be so much push back on this you won't believe it. This will be taken to court and Google ruled against
- Stephen Pickering
What nonsense that guy just said
- Stephen Pickering
I just pushed SideWiki into my Friendfeed, and my Friendfeed spools into my SideWiki profile, and it hasn't caused me any probl
- Ike Pigott
Transient logic... next big push.. data push first.. logic push next.
- Jerry Schuman
it is a document that is being passed across the web, despite how complicated the creation and distribution is. ultimately it is html and javascript
- Matt Terenzio
Sidewiki needs to bring in Google Reader comments related to the "post"/page it's displaying. That'd be slick.
- Ken Sheppardson
the document comes from a location, or multiple locations
- Matt Terenzio
Sidewiki already brings in relevant related blog posts from blogsearch/google news
- Charbax
Isn't the location metaphor broken, just like the silo metaphor.
- Cliff Gerrish
we're resurrecting "compound document" architectures ala OpenDoc
- Jerry Schuman
Right. Firefox? What?
- Jay Cuthrell
I think anyone disclosing that would be subject to whisteblower status.
- Jay Cuthrell
Someone has to host all the web's comments, I'd rather it be Google than Facebook.
- Charbax
Charbax - I would prefer it is distributed
- Rob La Gesse
maybe microsoft is the new microsoft and google is slightly changed google
- Matt Terenzio
Okay... I'm out. (please allow me to continue with my fantasy that anyone noticed I was in)
- Ike Pigott
Bye Ike.
- Cliff Gerrish
Do we truly care who hammed a nail? Or do we mostly care that the nail was hammered properly? (pertaining to "identity")
- Jay Cuthrell
I'd prefer that comments be distributed, and when you view an "entry" or some chunk of content, all the associated, linked comments on and items related to that item can be pulled from wherever they live and displayed for me, subject to filtering I define.
- Ken Sheppardson
You can just load the comments from Google's Sidewiki server by simply copying from the RSS feeds.
- Charbax
we don't want nails, just weak glue
- Matt Terenzio
"please show your comment card"
- Jay Cuthrell
Webmasters should not be able to filter comments. That's the whole point. Power to the people, not the current establishment of the web
- Charbax
NASCAR?
- Jay Cuthrell
I love the fact that if you run Kevin's twitter id through a twitter sentiment tool he's categorized as "post-graduate" ;-)
- Jerry Schuman
that was google worthy :)
- Jay Cuthrell
The NASCAR problem is the zillions of identity logins available on sites supporting openid.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff - yeah that was the first google hit :)
- Jay Cuthrell
Hey Ken, are you coming to IIW?
- Cliff Gerrish
I wonder how NASCAR feels about that? ;-) I didn't get that as a top hit relating to mechanical engineering or marketing elements related to car racing.
- Jay Cuthrell
I might... I should.... Nov 3-5 at the Comp History Museum?
- Ken Sheppardson
Amazing. http://www.google.com/search...
- Jay Cuthrell
Can you /sidewiki/ sidewiki?
- Jay Cuthrell
Damn you Steve!
- Rob La Gesse
Ownership of content is dead.
- Ken Sheppardson
Yes, Ken. I'll be at IIW.
- Cliff Gerrish
This event was Tricasted thanks to NewTek!
- Rob La Gesse
Could you check the audio sync before posting this on Youtube? all the other Gillmor Gang Youtube videos seem to be out of sync
- Charbax
Good show.
- Mike Doeff
This show was TriCasted :) ... like that
- Robert J Taylor
i'll have to pick it up on the rerun. deadlines and doctor's appointments intervened.
- Karoli
Charbax google is working on fixing
- Steve Gillmor
Google/YouTube is looking in to the sound sync problem. It's happend on a number of other videos too.
- Cliff Gerrish
Is there an rss feed to download the videos from YouTube yet?
- Christian Burns
from iPhone
Christian: You can be notified of a new upload via this RSS feed: http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds...
- Jack
Really interesting show.
- Amyloo
Still listening to the show, but one idea that doesn't seem to have been brought up on the sidewiki debate is the fact that I can create a custom CSS template for a page (Scobleizer.com for example) and even further change and/or modify a website's appearance and look. What happens when Google creates a proverbial "sideCSS" widget to allow everyone easy access to modify the look of...
more...
- Chris Aldrich
Doesn't RSS already strip all the formatting from a website in order to transport one level of value?
- Cliff Gerrish
Not every site has RSS. haven't you heard it's dead?
- Matt Terenzio
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Christian Hollingsworth, Haris bin Ali, Nicholas James and 25 other people liked this
Nice. I'm home this afternoon and get to see it live for the first time.
- Amyloo
ditto. no sound either.
- Christopher Harris
We're getting there
- Brett Slatkin
The test pattern looks good so far.
- Matt Mastracci
We are starting shortly.
- Robert Scoble
whoooo! shortly!
- Christopher Harris
Please stand by...
- Robert Scoble
It's on
- Matt Mastracci
Cool
- Ken Sheppardson
Rackspace is wasting their money, they could reach 175000 geeks by advertising on TWiT
- Mark
first time i'm seeing the new video :)
- Christopher Harris
Mark: who said we won't do that too?
- Robert Scoble
Alright... need to pull up Dave's Twitter stream in another window...
- Ken Sheppardson
look at that chizzled jaw, lucky guy
- Mark
dave winer?
- Christopher Harris
Considering we're watching video sucked over Skype and rebroadcast over ustream, the quality is pretty good.
- Matt Mastracci
"Fast RSS." I liek that generic term. Harkens to fast zombies.
- Amyloo
Fast feeds - like fast food? Will there be a Slow Feeds movement?
- Kevin Marks
Polling sucks.
- Bob Wyman
Bob: can you explain why you think that?
- Robert Scoble
And how that fits into this conversation?
- Robert Scoble
Knowing "what's new" is pretty important - as important as "something is new".
- Matt Mastracci
Scoble: It's inefficient.
- Eric Florenzano
Aha I'm awake in time for the gillmor gang.
- Hilary Talbot
polling wastes resources on both sides of the connection for the majority of the time when there are no new items
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Hey Hil.
- Amyloo
hey Amy :)
- Hilary Talbot
Scoble: Think of the browser. V1 of friendfeed was polling. You had to ask (by refreshing) whether there was new content. This version of friendfeed is push, where FriendFeed tells you when there's new stuff.
- Eric Florenzano
bear: right, so is Pubsubhubbub doing it right or wrong? And, is there a better way?
- Robert Scoble
the key part is that it's sending the content along with the item - this dramatically reduces client complexity
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
By "server", he means "hub", re: doing more work. The blogs do as much work as they do today (ie: ping the hub).
- Matt Mastracci
Hubbub is doing it right IMO
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Scoble: Just remember everything I said to you 5 or 6 years ago when explaining why PubSub was useful and why "one-day" people would realize that real-time would be good. Nothing has changed.
- Bob Wyman
Bob: yup, I'm slow. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert: You need to get more "real-time"!
- Bob Wyman
Right - this is the HTTP/HTML version of what PubSub has been doing for XMPP
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Absolutely. No question. Yes.
- Bob Wyman
Yeah. It could do twitter.
- Matt Mastracci
correction - I'm not the CTO - I don't think Johann would like me taking his job :)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Oh, sorry.
- Robert Scoble
Is it possible Bill Gates had it right, Business at the speed of Thought? We want content and information as we think it.
- Owen Greaves
I get confused. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Someone ask Recordon if they've figured out how all this can relate to activitystrea.ms, the streams protocol Facebook, MySpace, and others support
- Jesse Stay
no worries :) I like the promotion
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
which is Atom based
- Jesse Stay
You'd have a hard time doing twitter over rssCloud - you'd have to be pulling the last 30 twitter messages after each tweet. That's 30x the traffic.
- Matt Mastracci
If you were designing this sort of system from scratch today, I can't imagine that you'd take a polling approach. It's legacy left over from page-based web browsing.
- Ken Sheppardson
This is a great fit for activitystrea.ms
- Kevin Marks
Kevin, that's what I was thinking - both being Atom, they ought to fit together well. I'd love to see a use-case in action.
- Jesse Stay
Yeah, activitystrea.ms works easily with Atom which can then be made real time using PSHB.
- David Recordon
robert - easily - Seesmic ran in the cloud until we finally needed more memory for the Java side
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
polling is useful as a fallback and to pull history when subscribing for the first time.
- Kevin Marks
Can we all just agree on "Hubbub" vs "PuSH" or saying "pubsubhubbub" every time... once and for all? :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I'd love to see Brett's opinion on why Twitter won't implement PSHB
- Jesse Stay
It requires a big player just to have the operations staff to maintain a high volume site
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Jesse: I was just about to ask that.
- Robert Scoble
Tornado uses epoll and it's been used by Twisted Python
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
but if it's distributed - it would scale out anyway
- Ankush Narula
Kqueue too :) (Well, Twisted does support that, Tornado doesn't yet)
- Eric Florenzano
Twitter won't implement it because they want to be the hub, and they want everybody to use their own, proprietary APIS
- Ken Sheppardson
Ankush - correct - until you get "scobled" (i.e. when you have one user with a huge number of followers)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Mike: and wait until you get onto Oprah! :-)
- Robert Scoble
Sounds like DNS
- Rob La Gesse
Ken, I understand the Hub part, but I can't help wonder if they just don't understand how it could help their API. They could use their own hub if they wanted.
- Jesse Stay
Are Hubbub and rssCloud the same thing? (...he asks, feigning innocence)
- Ken Sheppardson
The PSHB protocol is "simple" and fairly trivial implementations are possible. But, *any* single hub that monitors millions of feeds is going to need care and feeding. There will be *very large* hubs and their will be tiny hubs and they can all work together happily.
- Bob Wyman
I'd love to know if Brett or Brad have reached out to Twitter in any way
- Jesse Stay
Ken: no. Similar efforts but come from different histories. RSSCloud comes from Dave Winer's side of the house.
- Robert Scoble
robert - oh hell no - that's what Loic is good at
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
the distinction is that PubSubHubbub sends the fat pings with content in; rssCloud sends an update notification and still needs a poll
- Kevin Marks
Mike: actually Loic has someone speaking at LeWeb that has a bigger global brand than Oprah.
- Robert Scoble
robert - yea, I haven't found out who yet - i'm curioius about that
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
It's Dr. Laura isn't it Robert?
- Jesse Stay
what happens if a hub dies?
- Ankush Narula
Jesse: way bigger than that.
- Robert Scoble
Yeah, Twitter wants other people to adopt their streaming API, if anything... they don't want to be yet another hub in some network
- Ken Sheppardson
rssCloud causes "thundering herd" problem on source blogs. The result can be a complete swamping of smaller publishers. This was the core "mistake" in rssCloud when it was first done 7 years ago and it remains the core error in that protocol.
- Bob Wyman
How about working with the OMB guys? Why PSHB vs. OMB protocol?
- Jesse Stay
yea, Twitter got burned with XMPP early in their engineering life so have a bad taste for it - they got burned not because of XMPP but because of other non-tech reasons
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Jesse - IMO OMB should allow for atom payloads - then it could become part of PSHB by default
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
OMB could generate activitystrea.ms + PSHB too
- Kevin Marks
Thundering herd would be a *huge* problem if Twitter were to get decentralized. Oprah has 1MM+ followers - that's 20 tweets * 1k * 1MM subscribers on each tweet.
- Matt Mastracci
Celine Dion probably has a bigger brand than Opera, and she speaks French (ADD kicking in here)
- Jesse Stay
Bear, interesting
- Jesse Stay
Bear: The issue wasn't XMPP the protocol, it was the software they used to implement it, the systems they built to feed it, the way they configured it, etc... XMPP isn't, a priori, any worse than the alternatives.
- Bob Wyman
OMB made a big mistake when they created their own protocol instead of just extending ATOM, IMO
- Eric Florenzano
Bob, yes - you said it much better than I did - I was trying to say just that
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
There was also the on again/off again relationship Twitter had with Gnip that confused the whole XMPP situation
- Ken Sheppardson
Yeah, I don't really see what OMB gets you these days given activitystrea.ms, Hubbub, etc. Seems redundant.
- Ken Sheppardson
We have an interesting interview with Gnip's founder on Building43 right now, by the way.
- Robert Scoble
@Matt: Right. with rssCloud, publishing becomes massively expensive if you get popular. rssCloud will, on the other hand, work well for people who aren't very popular and don't have many people interested in what they publish. For those folk, rssCloud is a potential solution... :-)
- Bob Wyman
Gnip link: http://www.building43.com/videos...
- Rob La Gesse
oh cool - Gnip has some very cool tech behind the scenes - i'll have to queue that video
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Ken - now that identi.ca/status.net has plugins - nothing prevents someone from wiring up a PHSB hook to the internal message queue for identi.ca/status.net
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
bear: You know if anybody's pushing activitystrea.ms out of a Laconica instance yet?
- Ken Sheppardson
I imagine that hooking up the twitter firehose to PSHB would be really easy and cheap, but it would likely violate the twitter firehose license.
- Matt Mastracci
kevin - yea, one of the most fun projects I did was to hook a sms/xmpp bot to a phone switch - it allowed you to control your vm/phone from xmpp and gave a lot of benefit
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
EVERYTHING cool violates the Twitter firehose rules :)
- Rob La Gesse
ken - there is some private branch work being done on that - but they are working on getting 0.9 out the door first
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@bear great - we should get you hooked up to the Ribbit APIs for telephony stuff and Seesmic
- Kevin Marks
Rob: FriendFeed figured out a way around the stupid Twitter rules.
- Robert Scoble
I think just knowing that Twitter offers a firehose violates it's terms of use.
- Ken Sheppardson
@kevin i would love to review them and make a pitch to the team about them
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - FF didn't try to share the firehose.
- Rob La Gesse
$50M for FF engineering and architecture team?
- Ankush Narula
@bear great, email me kevinmarks@gmail.com
- Kevin Marks
..and FF was able to position themselves as a Twitter client, in a sense, by pushing traffic to Twitter. They weren't just extracting value from the system. Plus, they probably asked nicely and sent cupcakes.
- Ken Sheppardson
Rob: sure it did, but it only shares it for people who have logged into FriendFeed.
- Robert Scoble
Rob: Twitter's rules are "don't create a shadow Twitter." As long as you don't try to do that they probably will let you play.
- Robert Scoble
Rob: of course every geek in the world wants to create a shadow Twitter. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Rob - once they produced the v2 api - then they started sharing the full stream. Until that point it was a partial stream
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - my point is - at the same time Twitter couldn't support more use of the firehose, they demanded the firehose NOT be re-broadcast. They don;t allow one to become a "node" of the stream. Which seems silly.
- Rob La Gesse
That's not entirely correct, Robert. Their other rule is "don't try to monetize something firehose based that we may at some point in the indefinite future think about monetizing ourselves"
- Ken Sheppardson
On PubSubHubbub and rssCloud ... (http://brad.livejournal.com/2405147...)
- David Recordon
Ken: we're saying the same thing. :-)
- Robert Scoble
decentralization!!!
- Ankush Narula
Rob: FriendFeed rebroadcasts the Twitter firehose, but only for the people who have signed onto FriendFeed.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Ah... right... "shadow Twitter". Gotcha :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert/Ken - I can understand why Twitter doesn't want downstream nodes passing on the stream - they lose access control
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert - they are not. They are broadcasting back a VERY small portion of that stream, at best.
- Rob La Gesse
I think technically rebroadcasting is illegal according to the Twitter developer terms for the firehose
- Jesse Stay
Mike me too! Rob: it is a small portion because only a few hundred thousand people have signed onto FriendFeed, but if you could get everyone on Twitter to sign up here you'd see the entire firehose.
- Robert Scoble
In so far as fire-walled end-user applications can't receive pings, PSHB protocol mainly helps publishers and server-side aggregators like Google reader. Since this "last mile problem" is out-of-scope for PSHB, we can't yet expect any client explosion the likes that Twitter has seen. Any thoughts from the panel on the last mile problem? What would have to be done so that Tweetie, Seesmic, etc, might benefit from PSHB?
- Mason Lee
Robert - I disagree. I think if that happened the hose would be shut off.
- Rob La Gesse
The protocol comparison document is at: http://code.google.com/p...
- Bob Wyman
Well, I don't think it's just rebroadcasting... there's also an issue around derivative/aggregations based on the firehose, firehose-based analytics, etc
- Ken Sheppardson
Why isn't Twitter ever a part of these conversations? I'd love to hear their viewpoint. You should get Ryan Sarver on one of these episodes.
- Jesse Stay
I believe they have an open invite :)
- Rob La Gesse
real time chat across different media and internet access levels - you pick what size/speed your want your conversation to happen at
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
The last time I saw Twitter participate in this sort of conversation was at BearHugCamp last fall.... and I suspect that left a bad taste in their mouth :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm curious if anyone invited them
- Jesse Stay
But you can't do global Track across a federated system
- Ken Sheppardson
But Kevin, what about tracking the firehose?
- Cliff Gerrish
*somebody* needs to aggregate everything if you want to search across everything
- Ken Sheppardson
*drink* someone mentioned Track
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Mason If PSHB handles the backbone problem of providing fan-in and then fan-out for millions of feeds, it makes it massively easier for people to focus on building innovative front ends. There isn't much opportunity for creativity in solving the backend problem -- that's why it is reasonable to build something like PSHB today. The really fun problems are the things that should be relying on PSHB as a source of feeds. Let PSHB do the boring backend problem -- you should focus on innovative clients.
- Bob Wyman
drink
- Rob La Gesse
or you need to delegate/distribute searches out to the hubs
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: that's a good point.
- Robert Scoble
I need a drink!
- Robert Scoble
Robert - grab some formula!
- Rob La Gesse
But, "follow" isn't enough. We also need TRACK!
- Bob Wyman
Or that other kind of milk.
- Amyloo
There are certainly benefits to distribution and redundancy, but there *are* benefits to centralization.
- Ken Sheppardson
Kevin has the key point, getting what you want... Discovery of what you want would be next... these hubs will be learning patterns of what is wanted.
- Ben Hedrington
Or will it be too decentralized?
- Ben Hedrington
Discovery on a federated/partitioned system is problematic.
- Ken Sheppardson
but PSHB isn't for track, as you have said eloquently on the mailing list, Bob
- Kevin Marks
live filtering?
- Ankush Narula
So discovery is the next frontier?
- Ben Hedrington
track remains a problem even with PSHB *but* using PSHB allows you to do a track across more than just one source
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert: chat room other than here?
- David Stratton
discovery happens the same way you discover new blogs IMO
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Kevin: But, if I've got PSHB aggregating the feeds, it makes it really, really easy for me to build a server that *does* do track on the stuff that PSHB feeds to me.
- Bob Wyman
Discovery has always been the new frontier
- Francine Hardaway
David: this is the chat room.
- Robert Scoble
Hubbub allows some central search provider subscribe to everything, then people can subscribe to the search provider... but there just has to be some way to discover/broadcast which feeds are out there... this is an issue with SUP, btw... discovery. You have to know a feed's SUP ID first.
- Ken Sheppardson
okay, thought so
- David Stratton
I guess I wasn't being 2010 enough. This is the chat feed. :-)
- Robert Scoble
So you mean if you want to do research or market research you will pay
- Francine Hardaway
@bobwyman sure, but that isn't the usecase Robert says he wants; he needs a mass crawl for that
- Kevin Marks
Francine: and restaurants will pay $10 a month to have their own Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
I remember the Microsoft guy at BearHugCamp last fall was wondering why anybody would ever want to build a Track system, rather than just leave it to Google...
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm a set of keywords, I'm looking for a set of keywords
- Arnie Klaus
Of course, Twitter will probably offer http://www.sushirestaurant.com/twitter at some point too.
- Robert Scoble
Live regexp for big pipes sounds like a $1Billion dollar business.
- Cliff Gerrish
we've been doing this stuff with MOM in financial market feeds - topic subscriptions, channels, etc.
- Ankush Narula
@kevin, I dont' see the distinction. I can do track based on all that flows through the PSHB hubs. That's semantically equivelant to doing a "mass crawl"
- Bob Wyman
And what will they really do with it? That they don't do now
- Francine Hardaway
You can have one aggregator that controls the entire feed, or you can set the feed loose and let several companies aggregate from those. Same data, no single point of control.
- Rob La Gesse
Francine: I can see a lot you would do if you had your own branded Twitter clone.
- Robert Scoble
Every Hubbub hub could/should provide a local firehose to anyone who wants it.
- Ken Sheppardson
distributed track is possible. Centralization only makes it easier.
- Bob Wyman
Complex events processing...
- Cliff Gerrish
@bobwyman only if all the hubs do collation for you, surely? Content-based filtering inot feeds on the hubs too
- Kevin Marks
Bob: and even centralization isn't THAT easy. Twitter only shows you the last few days on http://search.twitter.com
- Robert Scoble
How similar to JustSignal?
- Francine Hardaway
This is similar to tracking multiple market centers (pools of liquidity) to get the right trade.
- Cliff Gerrish
John Kalucki, a SQLstream co-founder, has been at Twitter for about 18 month now working on... wait for it... their firehose API.
- Ken Sheppardson
Cliff: Now I understand
- Francine Hardaway
the fun happens when PSHB allows for disparate streams to have firehoses - then all the search/filter geeks can do their thing
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Scoble: "history" is irrelevant to any system doing a real-time track. All you care about is the future -- not the past. Past is for "retrospective search," "track" is about "prospective search".
- Bob Wyman
The future: filter, search, discover, curate
- Francine Hardaway
So Twitter is trying to become FriendFeed?
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Sure we do. It's called TwitterSpy. Dustin Sallings built it two years ago
- Ken Sheppardson
others have built the same thing...
- Ken Sheppardson
Mike - so is Facebook :)
- Rob La Gesse
Bob: I want both.
- Robert Scoble
@bobwyman disagree - you need both flow and past; they complement one another
- Kevin Marks
bear: I think if you look at some of the newer Twitter web clients, they're basically a FriendFeed-like UI on top of the Twitter message bus.
- Ken Sheppardson
twitter retweet is going to make a lot of folks angry - not that I have any inside info or anything
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
bear: hah!
- Robert Scoble
@Scoble: Of course you want both. I would never question that. The two halves of search compliment each other. Only retrospective or only prospective is only half the solution. Most of the systems you've ever used have only solved half the problem .
- Bob Wyman
bear: Justine Bateman's already mad about it. :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Bob: agreed. FriendFeed came close to solving both.
- Robert Scoble
London here :)
- Bastian
New York here...
- Bob Wyman
hawaii here
- Arnie Klaus
Texas
- Rob La Gesse
Philadelphia
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
NYC
- Ankush Narula
Just got a 503 on Twitter... we breaking it real time?
- Ben Hedrington
Washington State
- Steve Hammer
San Francisco (not Silcon Valley ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
canberra, Aust
- Hilary Talbot
Dana Point, CA here
- michael sean wright
nice thing we started here
- Bastian
Wow - what a nice distribution!
- Rob La Gesse
Ben - no - Twitter's auth API is having trouble right now - my monitoring alerts are going berserk about it
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Minneapolis, MN
- Ben Hedrington
RSS!!
- michael sean wright
Arizona
- Francine Hardaway
awww...RSS :-)
- Jodi Church
RSS, welcome to the world.
- Bob Wyman
RSS lives!
- Mason Lee
Don;t know how Scoble had a cute baby :) I mean, Maryam is cute, but Robert? Hee
- Rob La Gesse
LOL @RSS...
- Karoli
That gives new meaning to RSS stream.
- Steve Hammer
when he farts - do you call it an rssCloud? ;-)
- Ankush Narula
welcome to the intertubes RSS!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@ankush LOL!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Rocky looks so cute petting him
- Francine Hardaway
Ankush, FTW!
- Karoli
Careful - Rocky looks hungry!
- Rob La Gesse
loved the mp3 of the sounds of RSS greeting the world
- michael sean wright
Your saving it all for his great, great grandkids!
- Arnie Klaus
I need to run! :)
- David Recordon
Thanks man ttyl
- Brett Slatkin
lots of spamming yesterday
- Karoli
it was a classic phishing scam
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
2 different things
- Karoli
Good to hear about http://superfeedr.com!
- Julien
If you were using SocialToo you wouldn't have gotten those messages :-)
- Jesse Stay
they're able to insert messages into your stream when you don't follow via the Twitter API
- Karoli
PSHB is not really decentralized from the client's perspective-- there will be one front end: google.
- Mason Lee
Diversity is important in *any* ecosystem...
- Bob Wyman
It's funny that I'm getting a fail whale on the Gillmor Gang.
- Robert Scoble
it's the same with your computer network - all the same server means you are pwned by a single attack
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Steve Gillmor needs his Twitter anti-virus (SocialToo) :-)
- Jesse Stay
DNS
- Eric Florenzano
Gmail
- Ken Sheppardson
Commonality in protocols -- diversity in servers.
- Bob Wyman
oh, wait...
- Ken Sheppardson
Twitter is down hard now.
- Robert Scoble
Ok, really need to go now! Thanks and talk to everyone later.
- David Recordon
I'm gettting 503 server error.
- Robert Scoble
everyone gets nervous when we add a layer on top of the web stack...
- Ankush Narula
yea, i'm getting hard errors from Twitter in my server alerts
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Ahh, it's back.
- Robert Scoble
One day Twitter just won't come back.
- Ken Sheppardson
i was, but it's working again for me
- Jodi Church
Yeah - API's having issues too
- Jesse Stay
Still 503 here
- Ken Sheppardson
@ken - then, we will all sleep.
- Rob La Gesse
Ken: Not after it has raise $100m
- Francine Hardaway
Its google wave getting ready to go live.
- Arnie Klaus
it's both
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Annie: Hah!
- Ben Hedrington
The problem comes in ownership of the resource. In the decentralized web, we share the pipes in neutral fashion. But, "commercial" people tend to violate net neutrality rules. Like Twitter deciding who can and cannot read their data. That is a net neutrality failure...
- Bob Wyman
Only portrayed that way by the FSF/GPL extremists
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Love the sound of Skype in the morning
- Bastian
@bear: We should profit by competing on the service we provide users -- not on how much of user's data we have captured.
- Bob Wyman
Bob: and what about Facebook's front door being completely locked?
- Ankush Narula
@bob agree 100%
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Is he saying Dave Winer's naive? :-)
- Jesse Stay
Bob: agree. Jesse: I think so.
- Robert Scoble
He's saying light pinging won't work.
- Cliff Gerrish
*smack*
- Rob La Gesse
@Ankush I'm seriously hoping that the new hires at Facebook help steer them away from the dark side :)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
So to argue in Twitter and Facebook's defense, they're not just a neutral pass through. They're adding value to the system, and they'd argue that they shouldn't be "forced" to just let that walk out the back door.
- Ken Sheppardson
I'd like to see Dave Winer's response to that
- Jesse Stay
@ankush , Folk don't always agree with me. But, I believe that users should control access to their data and they should make decisions based on what is in their interest -- the people who run the services that people use should *not* be the ones deciding what access controls will be enforced.
- Bob Wyman
so do you see there being an APi to Google's crawl for use in this, Bob?
- Kevin Marks
Because of stampeding herds?
- Mason Lee
I'm a big +1 on the fat ping
- Eric Florenzano
Jesse: I'm sure you will (see the response)
- Ken Sheppardson
Mike: if Facebook doesn't get its public service act together they will see themselves becoming the next MySpace. In the early adopter audience it already is.
- Robert Scoble
Bob/Mike - i'm in full agreement - but when you're building a service that has zero monetization (twitter) - what else can your valuation be based on other than your core data assets?
- Ankush Narula
I think Facebook is getting it together. Connect is their answer, but they're also slowly opening up search as well.
- Jesse Stay
Of course they have FriendFeed now to keep the early adopters inside the Facebook tent, but there's a lot more early adopters on Twitter than here.
- Robert Scoble
@robert agree completely - I had already zero'd out my profile and moved to FF - but the FF folks moving to FB made me give them more time
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bob/Mike - as for FB - I hope so too
- Ankush Narula
Of course, you are better off doing it on Rackspace :)
- Rob La Gesse
Jesse: I agree with you.
- Robert Scoble
Don't build services that have no legitimate path to profit. In that case, you should be building protocols whose costs can be shared by the community and then build your business by creating the best tools for using the protocol.
- Bob Wyman
popping in to listen to RL Gilmor Gang stream #gillmorgang
- Del_
Bob - Sounds ideal - but knowing the history of Twitter - I suspect they were much more concerned about uptime rather than the public good
- Ankush Narula
robert and rob: speaking of using Rackspace, Cartus put my contract on hold while they figure out their needs
- David Stratton
"Has *2* Bs"?? Doesn't it have, like 12?
- Ken Sheppardson
pub sub hub bub (five bs)
- Robert Scoble
activitystrea.ms is yet another endpoint that can be connected to PSHB
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Ankush I don't know who was thinking what. But, I do know that those who focus on "public good" typically write protocols, not walled garden closed sites.
- Bob Wyman
Sidewiki is so not a wiki
- Ken Sheppardson
I think it's actually "pub/sub hubbub" - I'm usually wrong though
- Jesse Stay
I want Sidewiki to have Wave support
- Jesse Stay
Bob - fair enough :-)
- Ankush Narula
Locking a new "feature" into relying on me installing a toolbar is a GREAT way to make sure I don;t play with it.
- Rob La Gesse
ooh - I hear tension in the realms of Google :-)
- Jesse Stay
you would have to gather a set of wave changesets and then push that out via PSHB
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Rob: I'm sure they'll support it in Chrome too, eventually
- Ken Sheppardson
It's PSHB vs. Wave - who will win? :-)
- Jesse Stay
you guys are nuts :-)
- Loic Le Meur
Wave *IS* XMPP
- Ken Sheppardson
Loic is in the building :)
- Rob La Gesse
Loic it's Celine Dion isn't it? :-) (how's it going?)
- Jesse Stay
nope
- Loic Le Meur
Where's my Wave invitation?
- Francine Hardaway
The Wave protocol is just an extension of XMPP
- Ken Sheppardson
good try though
- Loic Le Meur
PSHB and Wave don't compete. They do different things. Othogonal. PSHB does *nothing* in the last-mile user interface space.
- Bob Wyman
Loic: thanks for filling infor me.
- Robert Scoble
dang - I'm going to figure it out one of these days
- Jesse Stay
Francine: don't worry, I don't have one either.
- Robert Scoble
oh robert, no thank YOU
- Loic Le Meur
XMPP is also nice in that completes the last mile.
- Mason Lee
I had a blast being you for 24 hours
- Loic Le Meur
Seemed like a good conference watching it on my iPhone.
- Robert Scoble
XMPP is great for "last mile" as well as for reasonable number of persistent connections on teh backend.
- Bob Wyman
Great conversation guys!
- Ben Hedrington
I LOVED Tony Robbins, I was expecting to hate him so that was a pleasant surprise, best speaker I have ever seen. Such a stage presence. amazing/
- Loic Le Meur
Great show, everyone
- Rob La Gesse
great show!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Enjoyed listening/watching
- Ankush Narula
Great discussion here. Thanks Brett, et al.
- Mason Lee
That was very good - thanks Steve
- Jesse Stay
thank you
- Hilary Talbot
/me is wondering why everyone thanks everyone
- Loic Le Meur
@Loic It's because we americans are so polite!
- Bob Wyman
Thanks, Loic, I was wondering that myself.
- Mason Lee
Errr... That was a joke.
- Bob Wyman
LOL
- Loic Le Meur
social networking
- Arnie Klaus
don't get me started
- Loic Le Meur
Good show Steve, thank you all for making the time.
- David Stratton
You rang?
- John Kalucki
Hey John! When are you going to be on the Gillmor Gang?
- Jesse Stay
quick - get Steve back on video - Twitter is here!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
John is in charge of Twitter's Streaming API, FYI
- Jesse Stay
I totally didn't realize John had a FriendFeed account - awesome
- Jesse Stay
I skimmed most of the conversation. I didn't see any explicit questions to respond to, or that haven't been addressed on the twitter-dev list about pubhub...
- John Kalucki
have you looked at PubSubHubbub John?
- Kevin Marks
As far as the Streaming API rules, we'll work on them. The user TOS and API rules just went out last week.
- John Kalucki
John - except that a lot of the folks who were asking don't regularly read the twitter dev list :)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Let me find the link...
- John Kalucki
Heh :-)
- Jesse Stay
I'd just like to be able to standardize my code and not have to re-write for every new social network out there.
- Jesse Stay
But we've had this conversation. :-)
- Jesse Stay
how about activitystrea.ms support, John? You going to write the shim or do we have to?
- Kevin Marks
Activitystrea.ms support seems unlikely. A shim would probably be seen as syndication.
- John Kalucki
Overall, the direction is towards exposing more data types, more predicate types, and supporting more use cases. Format and protocol support, while making developer's lives easier, isn't as high priority as some of the proposed features we're considering.
- John Kalucki
That's too bad John - hard to be the "pulse of the internet" if you're not supporting open standards
- Jesse Stay
Hey JK! Welcome! How goes?
- Ken Sheppardson
Hey Ken. It goes. It goes.
- John Kalucki
Looks like we still have 27 viewers for a test pattern...
- Cliff Gerrish
I missed this shooooooot! need regular calendared events so i can add you guys to my schedule! :)
- Susan Beebe
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Daniel Rowley, Michael Pinto, earl wallace and 13 other people liked this
If it's Thursday, it must be the Gillmor Gang.
- Cliff Gerrish
Looking forward to it
- Kevin Marks
+1 for MG joining GG
- Mike Doeff
Nice. Welcome MG
- Ken Sheppardson
thanks guys
- MG Siegler
Ditto that.
- Karoli
And in the room at the same time. Crazy ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Glad to have the GG back!
- Colin
yes, good to see you, MG
- Kevin Marks
in black and white even!
- MG Siegler
Maybe Saturday for the baby, Robert? Here's hoping all goes well!
- Robert J Taylor
social media is dead, huh? wonder how he feels about the public option. :D
- Karoli
you should invite @caro on Gillmor Gang, Steve - she'd be great
- Kevin Marks
I wish Facebook allowed multiple accounts on threadly
- earl wallace
a design comment on this page: If the rackspace sponsor icon were above the video screen, the friendfeed discussion would line up with the video better.
- Karoli
thanks Karoli...will look into it
- Tina Chase Gillmor
we lost Scoble...Robert call back in!
- Tina Chase Gillmor
That happens every day. See failwhale
- Ken Sheppardson
Seth has a point.
- Antonella Stellacci
Sorry -went out of channel: @Karoli - working on a new site version/update. I've considered that issue as well. Thanks!
- Rob La Gesse
What a great looking show.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
What's critical mass these days? How many users have to be using a service for it to be taken seriously?
- Ken Sheppardson
So maybe the next big thing is "None of the Above", i.e. lots of small site that don't necessarily have a large userbase.
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert's back on the line. we're bringing him back up
- Tina Chase Gillmor
User centric vs site/document-centric ala http://www.arcticstartup.com/2009...
- Ken Sheppardson
hi Tina no see long time!
- earl wallace
hello Earl & everyone
- Tina Chase Gillmor
jet overhead!
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Posterous just launched customization. Nice.
- Ken Sheppardson
I agree with MG. Google does'nt seem to get the gist of social media
- earl wallace
Same view, Google isn't moving fast enough.
- Colin
Trying to tweet the show URL and my tweet won't go out..can someone help?
- Tina Chase Gillmor
I want to try threadsy...I think I'll like it
- Tina Chase Gillmor
threadsy wont let me bring in my different private and public Facebook accounts
- earl wallace
going to have to catch this on the rerun...kid issues override all today. Hopefully resolved soon. Thanks, all.
- Karoli
That doesn't mean everybody wants to do that, Robert.
- Ken Sheppardson
talked to women about sharing your location with everyone, robert?
- Kevin Marks
yeah, pretty much everyone i talk to isnt ready for that yet
- MG Siegler
It would be easy for FourSquare to integrate Facebook contacts
- Jesse Stay
eventually it will be the norm, but in no way are people ready for that yet
- MG Siegler
Just a few lines of code - copy and paste mostly
- Jesse Stay
I'll bet you 99.9% of the population of the US doesn't want their location published.
- Ken Sheppardson
1000 followers isn't publishing your GPS location
- Ken Sheppardson
and there has been no location-based incident yet, but sadly we all know it's going to happen
- MG Siegler
they want their location published to some people, not to everyone
- Kevin Marks
No, I'm not, Robert
- Ken Sheppardson
Kevin: You realize all your comments here are going out as tweet? (Just checking)
- Ken Sheppardson
Facebook Connect integration would make that easy - you can import their friend lists, choose to publish to only those friends, etc.
- Jesse Stay
I thought you just said "everyone", Robert
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken- I agree. There are some less than savory characters I want to give the opportunity of finding me
- earl wallace
Lost video/audio
- Ken Sheppardson
wow robert is pissed
- MG Siegler
refreshed page and it cam back
- Robert J Taylor
yep. refreshed here too
- Ken Sheppardson
hold onfolks... something went down
- Tina Chase Gillmor
get back up
- Tina Chase Gillmor
For me, I'll be much more selective about who I share my location with. And I'm not likely to send a friend request for a location-based system to someone who I haven't met and consider a "real life" friend.
- Mike Doeff
works again
- Ken Sheppardson
guys, has scoble been saying we should share our location or something ?
- Mark
The evidence to me that we're on the path to everybody becoming Scoble one day will be the existence of a second person like Scoble :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
geez... weird. Think ustream is messing up
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Tina -is there an audio stream url to listen on VLC?
- earl wallace
No video. :(
- Otto
video down hard again
- Ken Sheppardson
I don't mind having my location known if I am in a public place, but I sure don't want that at home.
- Francine Hardaway
we're still here...show continues but seems like there is a ustream problem
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Trying to watch this is a real chore, and I love you all
- Francine Hardaway
video up!
- earl wallace
Back up!
- Robert J Taylor
It's back up, refresh.
- 321
I share my location via BrightKite to my friends, and I use Navizon on my jailbroke iPhone to update a map on my Facebook page every 10 minutes. Kinda fun.
- Otto
A friend of mine built out a calendar tool for FB: http://wezaggle.com that delegates well
- Kevin Marks
aaaaaand we're back
- Mike Doeff
our audience is SO awesome
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Fire Eagle enables the sharing of location between services quite well.
- Otto
Have to agree with Scoble on the sharing capabilities of things like Foursquare ... not worried about the privacy issue at all
- Robert J Taylor
Fun, Otto, but you really don't want people knowing where you live. I have been stalked and it's scary
- Francine Hardaway
Francine: The only people that can see my location are people I know. I don't friend people on social sites if I don't know them. Facebook especially.
- Otto
I use Foursquare. But once again not in mmy home
- Francine Hardaway
I've had people (on FriendFeed and my blog) threaten me and my family. Since then I'm very careful revealing my location. I want control - I think utilizing Facebook privacy controls is the best way to do this.
- Jesse Stay
BrightKite offers a neat feature to make specific locations more private than others, so you can use it at home, but only your BrightKite Friends can see it (as opposed to the world)
- Otto
Francine, you tweet your location out a lot...I hate the whole idea of letting folks know where I am in real time unless there's some purpose in that notification.
- Karoli
But there's a fundamental difference between something like "track" and geolocation serivces. People don't know what "track" is, but they know what "everybody knows exactly where I am at all times" is.
- Ken Sheppardson
people make @foursquare venues for their homes that don't have addresses on, so they can check in, but only those in the know can find them
- Kevin Marks
yeah i have my place but not my apt number
- MG Siegler
Foursquare is crap. It doesn't work in any city within 400 miles of me. How the hell can a company sustain that sort of thing? They're totally ignoring like 80% of the bloody country.
- Otto
Because you're an outlier, Robert.
- Ken Sheppardson
@Karoli +1 What is the purpose of sharing location, i.e., WIIFM
- Dave Martin
NTTAWWT
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert that would be cool except those with mental illnesses that catch alot of prejudice
- earl wallace
but will we have to arm ourselves?
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Definitely am an outlier. I like sharing my location so people who know me (or want to) can join me. Works well in my home town and in towns I'm visiting.
- Robert J Taylor
Main reason me and friends use BrightKite is to check in at places so that we can meet up without having to trade texts and calls and such. Much nicer than how it was before, having 20 people call to ask what bar we're hanging at
- Otto
Dave, if I were stuck on a country road in the dark and wanted someone to come get me, it would be extremely handy. (that's actually happened to me in the past)
- Karoli
Snarf
- Brant Walker
Hey Steve--How are you monitoring the show's audio w/ out headphones without creating feedback?
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
Tina: good reason to live in Texas...the "Castle Doctrine" applies to home and car. :)
- Robert J Taylor
nice plug
- Tina Chase Gillmor
yeah i've seen a few things like that coming soon also
- MG Siegler
Not to throw a legal question into the mix but at what point do we all become default public figures as a result of our election to disclose personal information? The privacy myth writ large.
- Dave Martin
By the way, was talking to someone who work kids trying to get guns off the streets, and they were explaining that one of the biggest problem they have these days is girlfriends with cellphones.
- Ken Sheppardson
think flashmobs
- Ken Sheppardson
interesting Ken...
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Speaking of visiting... I'll be in LA at 140tc next week. Staying at Hotel Angeleno.
- Robert J Taylor
taking pictures of guys from gang A, msg to boyfriend in gang B, boyfriend says keep him there, we're on the way
- Ken Sheppardson
Big Brother replaced by little sister, Ken?
- Robert J Taylor
Robert T. - I like that hotel
- Tina Chase Gillmor
with latitude you can choose what to share with who (share best location, city level, hide)...
- Antonella Stellacci
@Karoli good point but we would probably agree that you would want to somehow limit those who were made aware that you were alone on a dark road
- Dave Martin
another jet
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Dave, absolutely.
- Karoli
Antonella-Good point which illustrates that foursquare and others should use Goolgle for open standards template
- earl wallace
or not
- Tina Chase Gillmor
IMO, people think too much of themselves. Nobody cares if you like coffee.
- Otto
Yes, location based services have value. Will everyone use them? Probably not. What's next...
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert, as long as you control those "where I am/what I'm doing" location disclosures
- Dave Martin
Your *friends* might care, but those are the only people. And you'd probably want them to know.
- Otto
the interesting thing about @foursquare is that it does encourage you to perform your location
- Kevin Marks
Kevin: Only if you live in one of the towns it supports. Nobody I know uses foursquare.
- Otto
I remember Kevin and myself being in those early conversations. We've only been talking about this stuff for 8 years now.
- Jerry Schuman
the starbucks bot notices you were at peets and asks, why were you being unfaithful to me today at 10:20am
- Dave Martin
Gowalla is neater.
- Otto
Good show guys.
- Mike Doeff
Dave: If that actually occurred, it would be a horrific fail and the backlash would be tremendous. Can you image how many people would get ticked off about starbucks tracking them?
- Otto
Otto: I think that the same thing was said about Twitter - who cares what you're doing, besides some friends? Now we're talking about "where are you"...
- Robert J Taylor
Thanks Steve, Kevin, Seth, MG, Robert, good show
- Dave Martin
thought-provoking show!
- Robert J Taylor
Thanks Steve for the wonderful platform, looking forward to more!
- earl wallace
@otto true, that was the problem with dodgeball too - it is primarily an urban density app as built
- Kevin Marks
Robert: The thing nobody got about Twitter is that "your friends" is enough to make it a useful service.
- Otto
thanks everyone ...great show
- Tina Chase Gillmor
thanks guys
- MG Siegler
Just joking Otto, we agree, there are two issues, having access to the data and application of the data, collection/mining will be the science, application will prove to be the art
- Dave Martin
@Kevin: Yes, foursquare supports 21 cities. But I live in the 19th biggest city in the country, Downtown no less, and foursquare doesn't have it. Lame, lame, lame.
- Otto
yeah crowd-sourcing cities is coming soon. will open it to a lot more
- MG Siegler
I live in the 7th largest city -- no Foursquare love for San Antonio. Always pretends I'm in Austin
- Robert J Taylor
Crowdsourcing should have been in there in the first place. Gowalla has 50-60 locations in my city, and I was only the 3000th user or so. What the hell good is a location based app that doesn't work in almost all locations?
- Otto
I live in the 10th largest City, San Jose, and I have to tell @foursquare it's San Francisco...
- Kevin Marks
Kevin, I had the same problem in Boston. It doesn't work well with suburbia.
- Jesse Stay
San Francisco is a suburb of San Jose. If you go by population.
- Gabe Wachob
One thing is certain, GPS will redefine "local" to mean not DMA, block code or any other crude marketing/census definition but local as EXACTLY where you are in the moment.
- Dave Martin
or san jose is a suburb of SF if you go by white upper middle class cultural associations
- mary
Actually, San Jose is part of the so-called embedded San Francisco metro or DMA/SMSA definition.
- Dave Martin
MP3 here: http://www.archive.org/downloa... When the youtube version is uploaded presumably without the dropouts, I'll rip the audio and put it here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/bootleg...
- Jack
The real time comments here are interesting but lack much in the depth department. Where do I find the post show comments?
- Jason Adams
Threadsy blows TC50 away
earl wallace, Susan Beebe, Rob La Gesse and 5 other people liked this
TC50 blows threadsy away. It seems like their servers can't handle all the traffic
- arjo
i'm still thinking it over steve.. want to play with it. i suspect it's a product for advanced users.
- mary
Wasn't Steve Gillmor thrown off of the Leo Laporte TWIT network, if my memory serves me?
- Arnold Winters
Errrr, no, Arnold, he wasn't.
- Karoli
I must be thinking of someone else
- Arnold Winters
I heard he or one of his GANG insulted Leo?
- Arnold Winters
Other way around
- Rob La Gesse
Comcast just added caller id phone call alerts on my cable tv - kinda cool. kinda weird. Is an alert on my web browser next?
Rob La Gesse liked this
It is, if a local company has their way - http://perftech.com/. And I would welcome it, if I can filter it.
- Rob La Gesse
@paulcarr let's continue our hangman game on FriendFeed so we don't piss off all our Twitter friends. Here:
Richard Monte, Roberto Bonini, zʍıɔ and 6 other people liked this
...Hangman, Scoble?
- Ben Parr
My next try: "e"
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I know! I know!
- Jesse Stay
Yes - _ _ _ _ _ I E
- Paul Carr
Can I buy a vowel?
- Rob La Gesse
Can I have an "r" and Jesse if you solve it you will save me.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
o-+-<
- Jesse Stay
w....h.....
- Dennis O'Neil
Sounds like something a dog would say
- Jesse Stay
Robert o-+- (you lost the legs)
- Jesse Stay