Krista Neher › Comments

thomas can you gimme the lowdown? why it instead of others? isn't it same same? - kk+

Kris. Best thing is that they pay photographers 80% of licensing fees and print mark ups. This is very generous. Beats the pants off iStockphoto paying people 20%. Also you control the pricing and set the prices. I need to spend more time and give this site attention that it deserves. Maybe tomorrow. - Thomas Hawk

so you can use it just to sell your prints? like smugmug kinda? that could be useful. flickr doesn't offer that right? - kk+

It is a cross between flickr and istock. It is similar to what Zooomr originally promised with their "market place" which they never got up and running. - CJPhoto

i keep going to the site and get findlinks.com :( - Outsanity

Out... www.photrade.com - Johnny Worthington

argh... curse you www!!! - Outsanity

for some reason the logo makes me think of photobucket but other than that the site does look good to me. i'd be willing to test out a new site. - Outsanity

They also give you a share of advertising revenue. Is anyone seeing this yet? The problem is the ads seem to be "buy photos like this on Amazon". - CJPhoto

you don't happen to have any invites left by any chance..... do you?? =\ - Mona Nomura

mona i have 2 and would be happy to share, just send me your email address! :) - kk+

Mr kris, Please send me an invitation : p.meghrazchi{at} gmail.com - peiman

Hi All - Krista from Photrade here! Hope that you enjoy our site... if you have any questions/comments/feedback/ideas please let us know. You can contact me directly (Krista at photrade dot com). Per the question on ad-revenue we just had a pay day yesterday (we pay on the first of each month)... some users made out quite well (I made $7)!! - Krista Neher

please one invite for me too: mhmazidi [at] gmail [dot] com - mhmazidi

Thanks Bill! @mhmazidi, I sent you an invite - Adrian Poermandya

Hi Guys - I'm the VP of marketing at Photrade. Let me know what you think of the site and what we can do to better meet your needs. - Krista Neher

see invites over here --> http://friendfeed.com/e... - Susan Beebe

I'm interested in your findings with Photrade. I've looked into it only briefly. - Damien Franco

Chris - I hope that you enjoy using the site :) Let us know what you think.... you're feedback is really important to helping us continue to improve the site (we are a beta after all).... :) - Krista Neher

Enjoy. - Vincent X

I still have 2 of these if anyone else needs? - Ryan Gallagher

Can you send me an invite, please? salus.rex (at) gmail.com - slsrx

I have used my invites....sorry - Matt

I only had one invite left, sent it to TorontoJack. Hopefully Ryan still has one for slsrx. - Vincent X

slsrx, invite sent. I have 0 left now. - Ryan Gallagher

Hello all - I hope that you enjoy using Photrade :) We are really excited about the launch and have had great feedback so far. Please let me know if you have any ideas or feedback :) Happy Photrading :) - Krista (VP Makreting, Photrade) - Krista Neher

Thanks Vincent !!! - Icekahlua

jmowery AT gmail DOT com I'd really appreciate it! - James Mowery

I got ya hooked up James - Bill Powell

I totally agree with Becca - Scott Wamsley

But the question is ought it be Flickr's job to try to design their system and police those who use their API? Should flickr be required to monitor every single API key for copyright enforcement? Some use the API for personal tools, others use it for commercial purposes. My own feeling is that Flickr should not have to play the role of copyright police -- that misuse of imagery ought to be between a photographer and the offending party. - Thomas Hawk

I'm not familiar with Flickr's API, but I imagine it's pretty easy to retrieve the license data for each image. If so, the responsibility rests solely on the API consumer to make sure what they're doing with the images is legit. I suppose if Flickr really wanted to be proactive about it, they could provide a "Don't expose my images through the API" option. No one would ever see those pictures again, but at least the copyright would be slightly more secure. - James (@willia4)

James, Flickr already has a way for users to opt out of the API if they want. If people are that concerned about misuse then I think it is their responsibility to opt out, not Flickr's responsibility to play copyright police. You can opt in/out of the API on Flickr here: http://www.flickr.com/account... - Thomas Hawk

Ok. Then I don't understand the problem. Flickr's already giving their users the the tools to keep their photos from showing up in random API places. There's nothing to see here. Move along. - James (@willia4)

Becca, this is the whole point of this discussion. If you tag your images with a specific copyright, legally that should be honored by all who want to use that image. - Jeff P. Henderson

I'd be interested to know if policing the use of the API changes Flickr's liability in regard to safe harbor? Do they move from being not responsible for how people may misuse copyright of photos that happen to be hosted on Flickr, to being liable for that misuse? If they do, I can see why they would not get involved with policing the API - Mike McBride

Right, flickr gives you both the option to block your images from external search and API, and the option to allow the programs *you want* to access your files through your API key, I don't see a big issue aside from the fact that those options aren't made more clear to new users and/or asking users to set them as part of the setup process. On top of that, you can choose who can/cannot see certain sized files of yours. All the tools are in place, it's whether/how you use them or not. - cmiper

I don't think that Flickr should have to play copyright police and monitor all usage for their API for violation, and the courts would most likely uphold this as they have with ISP's liability for people distributing copyrighted music over their networks. But it seems that they might be able to rewrite the API to plug the holes or make it easier for programmers to abide by the rules. This might fall under the category of being a good citizen on the net. - Jeff P. Henderson

@cmiper That is good information. I will look into how this all works. It is definitely not clear to most users that they have an option to control how their images are seen/used and by whom. If this is the case then Jim's original issue is really a non issue, and he just need to configure Flicker to function to meet his copyright needs. - Jeff P. Henderson

Part of the problem Jeff might be that Jim doesn't want to totally opt out of the API. For instance. He might enjoy that people can see his photos in PicLens or Flickrleech or other apps (or maybe not), but wants to restrict it to other companies. Much of the API use is not dependent on individual permission given to approved apps. Still, I think if it matters that much to someone that they should just opt out entirely. - Thomas Hawk

An API white-list doesn't seem like it'd be worth implementing. I'm sure the VAST majority of Flickr's users wouldn't ever use it, if only because most of us (myself included) just don't take very good or interesting pictures. I'm not really worried about someone stealing the snapshot I made of my mom's dog, after all. If I really cared, I'd get my pics off flickr and on to my own server and do white-listing with .htaccess files. Not that anyone would go to the trouble of accessing my site then. - James (@willia4)

@Jeff - you can block API/search here http://flickr.com/account... You can control what scripts/programs you want to have access through your API here http://flickr.com/service... you can set who has access to your larger sized photos here http://flickr.com/account... - cmiper

@cmiper, Thanks for posting the links! - Jeff P. Henderson

Thomas, I think you left out some key information. Flickr allows you to mark your photos as to whether you're willing to share them or not, but the API disregards that information. While you may be perfectly willing to let someone else profit from your photos, others may not. My view follows what Becca wrote. If Flickr's API followed the same rules as it sets for a person viewing photos on their site, this would not be an issue. That's the key issue as I see it. - William Beem

@James - Why should I have to deactivate a useful feature just because one vendor broke the rules? Perhaps I want to use BigHugeLabs.com or Moo.com to access my Flickr photos and provide a service, but I don't want them sold without providing me any notice or income. I don't like being used. - William Beem

William, see my comment above, you have to OPT IN to use those services, which you do through YOUR API key. Blocking unauthorized access through API/search does not affect this. - cmiper

@William - Why should Flickr have to spend development, QA, localization, maintenance, and documentation resources implementing an API white-list feature because one vendor broke the rules? And why would anyone put their pictures on the Internet if they really cared about people copying them? Once it's on the Internet, that's it. Game over. It's going to be copied and shared and ripped-off if it's any good. Period. I just don't see how this is Flickr's responsibility. - James (@willia4)

So...you would be perfectly happy if they just removed the license information? ::shrugs:: I'd rather they didn't, personally. - James (@willia4)

Unbelievable! Why should Flickr make it's own API follow its own rules? I'm stunned that you would even ask that question. This isn't so much about Flickr being a copyright cop as it is about Flickr being consistent between its presentation and its API. - William Beem

If you folks would click on "Show XX more comments" above, you would see that you can OPT OUT of access to your photos through the API except for third party apps that you authorize to have access to them. The tools are there, if you don't use them then they are useless. - cmiper

Why should people not have the benefit of the Flickr API just because someone abuses it? That's just punishing the people who don't abuse it because of the actions of a handful who do. - Ian Betteridge from twhirl

The API is just a data layer. It's not supposed to follow the rules of the presentation layer. That's why the API lets people do so many cool things: by not having the restrictions of the web page. This is just another one of those things; it seems to be the only one anyone's up in arms about. And I can't see a good solution that wouldn't also remove the desired functionality of sites like moo.com. So...what's the better idea? - James (@willia4)

The "better idea" is to improve the API. - William Beem

Irony: Andrew Feinberg was giving me a bunch of crap about how secure Flickr was with regards to this in this thread over here: http://friendfeed.com/e... - Kirk Kittell

So just because I don't mark my picture as CC, I'm not allowed to make a Moo card with it? See, if they did THAT, I'd agree that they obviously don't care about their users. - James (@willia4)

I think it would be handy if Flickr would provide me the ability to see who accesses my photos through the API and how the photos are used. That way policing my copyrights is in my hands and not in the hands of some programming logic. Don't forget that Flickr was designed to share and distribute images widely. Don't be surprised when they get out. If you that concerned with protecting you work, use PhotoShelter or similar service that is designed for controlled distribution instead of Flickr. - Aaron Schaub from fftogo

If Flickr API allows others to sell your photos when you dont want them to, Flickr should stop it. - CJPhoto

For people saying that you should not post pictures if you do not want them stolen, replace photos as a medium with a different medium say text or video. The same problem applies and with those mediums, there seems to be far more outcry when content is stolen rather than the cavalier attitude towards stolen photos. I would hate to see DRM become the norm for pictures but there needs to be respect for copyright along with proper attribution. - Jauder Ho

Flickr needs to do the right thing here and enforce licenses as part of fetching images via RSS and the API. - Jauder Ho

I find your view surprising Tom. It's NOT OK for someone to infringe your right to take photos but IT IS OK for someone to infringe your rights to use your work with out consent. If the later doesn't matter why would the former? I am not asking Flickr to police copyrights I am asking Flickr to abide by their end of our agreement. I have not given them blanket permission to distribute my... more... - Jim Goldstein

I am also torn by this article. I am in the midst of researching if it is worth attempting to sell some of my photos to be able to invest and feed my hobby. I don't think this is a bad thing, and if I were selling my photos I definitely would want to make sure they were protected in fairness to those who paid for it. This is assuming I can get people to pay for my bad photos of course. =) - Alex Almeida

Hey Bill, Sent! (I'm out of them now). - Ryan Gallagher

Thanks so much I will now spread the wealth - Bill Powell

I got $0.01 Ya beauty! - Chris Nixon

Wow. I really should get started posting photos there. I already have an account and everything. - Morton Fox

@Chris: That's .01 more than I got ;) - Holger Eilhard

w00t! $.20! - Dawn M. Armfield

Welcome to the club, said by a guy who has sold exactly one photo. - Dave Roth

I got $0.13. Now if I can just get 10,000x more views, I can start thinking about upgrading some of my equipment! - Jeremy Brooks

Well, we know who's buying drinks now - Kirk Kittell

Don't spend it all in one place! :) - Morton Fox

I've got a whopping $0.51. If we pool all our money, we can buy a Coke! - Henrik Johansson

I'll chip in my $0.08 http://www.photrade.com/portfol... - Andy Roth

so it's about as lucrative as Amazon Associates then - do you get paid only when you hit $x? Do you feel your hours spent setting up your account are worth it, and do you see an upward trend in the site? I ask because I'm intrigued to join you - maybe - Phill Price

@Phill - if you have your photos tagged locally, then it is just a matter of uploading and organizing into galleries. So - not too much time getting going. Of course for the small amounts of $ most of us seem to be seeing thus far, may not be worth it. - Andy Roth

Just after I joined (did not upload any photos) they upgraded to a new UI. I doubt this site ever gets to critical mass. - Russellreno

I don't mean to brag but I have a $0.41 payment from Photrade. :-) - Mike Doeff

Mike: You rock! - Russellreno

How do you find friends on Photrade? Looked for ya Russell but could not find. - Vox

Anyone got more than $1? - Roberto Bonini

Is that $.05 before or after taxes? :-) - Jeff P. Henderson

Not familiar with how Phototrade.com works. So you get paid for views? Where does the money come from, ads on the photo pages? Sounds like WAY too much work for absolutely no return if people are only making pennies after spending time uploading their images. - Jeff P. Henderson

@Jeff - Photrade is a site that helps people share, protect and make money from their photos - ad revenue (we share all of our ad revenue) is only one of the ways that photographers can make money.... on a side note, I made $7.41... and YES I do work there, but the math is calculated the same for me as everyone else (other non-employees have made more than I have). It just depends on how many views you get and I have lots of pics and use my photos in 3 different blogs :) - Krista (VP Marketing at Photrade) - Krista Neher

Vox: I do not know. I am id=831 try this link http://www.photrade.com/portfol... - Russellreno

Your profile is www.photrade.com/username (it just isn't displayed that way on the site).... we're fixing it, but the link will work in the mean time. I am www.photrade.com/kristaneher - Krista Neher

Krista - I checked out the web site and it is not clear how much money one can make. It looks like their are a couple of mechanisms but it is very sparse on details. It looks like they indicate you can make money from stock sales & prints, but it also looks like they 'give' photos away for free and use ad revenue to cover the cost/payment to the photo's owner. Can someone who is using the service provide more info on how it works? - Jeff P. Henderson

i couldn't even make $.05 when i was using Adsense. lucky - Outsanity

Thanks Russell and Krista. Added ya both as contacts @ Photrade - Vox

Hi Jeff - You can sell photos at any price (prints, merch or licenses). For ad revenue we pay out based on # of views for onsite and offsite ads.... so if someone uses your photo there is an ad on it and you get paid for every view... Email me if you have more questions (krista at photrade dot com). - Krista Neher

Krista any timetable on the Flickr to Photrade function? - Vox

Krista - Putting my photos on your site is all well and good, but I won't make any money unless people who actually buy stock images on a regular basis know about the site. What kind of marketing are you doing and what is your long term commitment to ongoing marketing to try to draw professional photo buyers to this site. i.e. what is my incentive to use your site instead of the many other well known stock sites that photo buyers already know about? - Jeff P. Henderson

Just joined, any one care to add me as I contact? http://www.photrade.com/gbierma... - Grant Bierman

@Grant - added. Here is me: http://www.photrade.com/duckbro... - Andy Roth

@Vox - We had a solution working but had to pull it back as we couldn't verify accounts... (which is why there is a space for it). We are working on a different solution which will take some time (not a quick fix). @Jeff - We are creating a new stock model where image owners have control over their prices (vs. microstock) and buyers have access to greater breadth. We have had some stock buyers on the site already, and as our content grows we will market to buyers. If you don't make $, we don't make $. - Krista Neher

Grant: got it. - Russellreno

Thanks for the adds, I've added you back everyone. - Grant Bierman

@Krista - how about releasing your API so the likes of Migratr can add you to their list. - CJPhoto

For those who have earned money, is tehre any indication of how many views you had, and what the coversion ratio is. ie. 100 views = 1c? - CJPhoto

@Krista: All the ads on the photos appear to be "fine more ads like this on amazon". Isnt that taking buyers away from your site rather than to it? - CJPhoto

I'm not part of the 'fear google' camp, and I do find it attractive to appear on consumer products like Google maps by way of its relationship to YouTube and Picasa. That's good mainstreamyness. Blogger however, no way in hell. - Eric Rice

@Jason totally - Shey, Jamaican of FF

Why would one have to move from Flickr? I guess I'll start using Photrade. :) - Morton Fox

Jason, I read earlier (here on FF) that there's a FireFox plug-in that will do the move from flickr to smugmug for you... I think we (Lindsay and I) may try that. Haven't made a decision yet, though our yearly memberships are coming up soon. Yahoo, can you get any stupider? - Chrimmus Tad

There is also iPernity, which boasts many flickr-like features and has a GM script to import everything, or photos one at a time. - cmiper

See, the thing I like about flickr is the community. That's not exactly a "feature". I'm not convinced there is any replacement for flickr's community. - Jason Wehmhoener

If someone is considering leaving Flickr because Stewart and Caterina are leaving that's just nuts. - Thomas Hawk

Unfortunately, Thomas, it's posts like this one (and the blog article it links to) that contribute to such reactions ---> http://friendfeed.com/e... - cmiper

See, this is the type of thing that doesn't matter to the general public at all. They will probably never even realize anything happened. What does this change from a user perspective? - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

I just joined Smugmug,and I have to say that the experience has been really positive. It's been easy for me to upload my photos, and I've already setup galleries (sp?) and sent links to friends and family. I remember that @leolaporte talked about using the service, and that's what got me to check it out first. - Henry Burger

Thomas I agree with you on this point. If indeed flickr changes for worse well,talk about it then... - Mark Forman

I love SmugMug too, but, sorry, it isn't Flickr (and Flickr isn't SmugMug). The two are different and for different kinds of photographers. I agree with Thomas. Why would anyone leave a service just because the founders are gone? - Robert Scoble

I really dont know how this affect the users inmidetly I think you should all relax and wait to see how this pans out, no need to run. This is like saying that whenever Steve Jobs retires all stop buying Apple products heh. - Gadiel Rivera

Can anyone articulate why they are leaving Flickr aside from the founders leaving? If there is a demise in the service I enjoy with Flickr, and more importantly the community, I may consider other photo sharing sites. Until then, I have no basis by which to panic and jump ship. Ridiculous. - Liana Lehua

Let's all jump on the gravy train!! the sky is falling! the sky is falling! My goodness people. It isn't like Flickr is having fail whale or anything. :) - Bwana ☠

I think there's a fear that the culture will erode, particularly if Yahoo is acquired. I think the fear is misplaced for two reasons. 1) at this point, the culture doesn't come from the company, it comes from the users, and 2) Yahoo isn't going to get acquired. oh, and one more 3) Lots of cool people still work for flickr. - Jason Wehmhoener

I doubt most, including me, are looking to leave all of a sudden because of the founders leaving. It is more of a discussion of the what will you do if it takes the turn for the worse because if this pivotal change. Switching systems with so much built up into Flickr isn't flipping a switch, it does take a little forethought and planning. I think it is an interesting discussion, not a chicken little exercise. - Jeremy Hall

Maybe the same reason those that didn't want Yahoo to be part of Microsoft. Maybe it's a vision thing. Maybe it's about the attachment to a product you've founded and cared for like a child... to leave that. Who gives a rip about greedy shareholders? They give a rip about money, not a larger picture. It's more emotional than that. So anyway, BACK TO THE TOPIC. What photo sites are out there you like, use, etc? ;) - Eric Rice

I'm not going to leave Flickr just because the founders left. I'll leave it when something better comes along. But I'm not seeing that something now. - Mitch Wagner

no disrespect but from what i can tell neither was actively involved in flickr oversight or direction recently (post sale really), so their leaving shouldn't negatively effect flickr - me personally, i've got 7000+ images in there and am happy w/ current state, agree w/ jason the thought of migrating off flickr is depressing - mike "glemak" dunn

god, I love flickr more and more each day. Me no wanna move. :-( - Christine Cavalier

The Picasa app is handy, and Google seems to always be adding more features to things. - Tanath

Eric - Check out Photrade.com - new beta site helps you share, protect and make money (and it is free).... Currently invite only - use the code TWIP to get a in. Let me know what you think :) (krista at photrade dot com). - Krista Neher

I don't think I could up and move from flickr that easily. - Michael Gaines from twhirl

If I do switch, it will probably be to Zoomr or Picasa Web Albums. - Jake (aka Jawee) from twhirl

I just paid my 1 year subscription...so I'm going to wait so see how things unfold (if anything) - Justin Korn

Believe it or not Duncan there are some people out there who don't just use Yahoo because of Flickr. I know, it's hard to believe. - Mike Doeff

Mike, what else do you use? - McFrugal

Mike, what should I be looking at? - Duncan Riley

I know Flickr is popular but I've always found Picasa Web Albums to get the job done simple and easily. And with my parents and sisters on it, its a no-brainer. - Zach Landes

Big opportunity for Zooomr if they are ready for it. Just got the invite for Photrade but have yet to go check it out yet. Photrade has the commerce element to it too. Flickr has always been the social aspect for me though; Smugmug has been my serious/commerce photo resource. - Jeremy Hall

@Mike Doeff: Yeah, I use del.icio.us AND Flickr. ;) - Jake (aka Jawee) from twhirl

Jeremy, I wanted to be warmer about Zooomr but I'm not sure what's going on there. The front page is a complete mess, and it seems to have disappeared from the radar a bit, although their traffic seems to be holding. - Duncan Riley

@Jeremy I really don't see how this is a big opportunity. I am sure the VAST majority of users have never heard of these founders, or the fact that they are leaving Flickr. When/If Flickr starts heading in the wrong direction, then there will be new opportunities for other services to grab market share. - Zach Landes

@Duncan I agree. I was obviously curious when Thomas made an seemingly obvious return to Flickr with most of his photos, particularly those hosted on his blog. When the primary evangelist for the site is suddenly much more quiet about it, makes you wonder. Any reasons you care to share TH (or that I missed)? - Jeremy Hall

@Zach Perhaps a bit as you say, I view it as an indicator of the potential for an opportunity. Just as with any program that becomes huge, someone eventually comes along that just does it better or in a way. Flickr does a lot of things great, but they have also moved slowly on what many have pointed out as opportunities to evolve in features that are a natural improvement to what is already there. The current outflow of leadership typically leads to stagnation or negative change. - Jeremy Hall

You notice that SmugMug is offering 50% off your first year if you come from Flickr? Puts it smack dab within Flickr's price point and a wee cheaper. Yahoo watch it. - Tris Hussey from twhirl

the list fails to make mention of fileden... which while the interface is horrible.... allows you to post images without censorship. A must have to avoid the eMOMs (MailOurMilitary), Tiper Gores, Volvo Soccer Moms, and other moralists ilk. Censorship with photo sharing is a huge issue. Please address it to make your story truly relevant - Noah David Simon

Zooomr never got funding and will never be able to deal with huge growth unless it does get funding. - Robert Scoble

Smugmug has the backbone and expertise to be much bigger in this market, but they have specialized in providing the features and flexibility to paying members that are more serious about managing their own "sandbox." I love Smugmug, but the social aspect has always been more difficult for me to get involved with over there vs flickr. I wonder how this could be improved. - Jeremy Hall

why on earth would i leave flickr just because the founders quit? the site works, hasn't changed from the value proposition i as a user signed up to. i'm perfectly happy paying for my pro account until they actually reduce my feature set, but could care less who is 'in control'. who knows, maybe the new team will actually improve the site? - Jeremy Toeman

Jumping the gun is an understatement here. - Bwana ☠

I just renewed my Flickr Pro account. I'm too busy to worry about some future hypothetical calamity. I'll let y'all worry about it, figure out what to do, and then in a few years if disaster strikes, I can move then. - Amit Patel

Flickr is a great site, and I'm sure that Stewart & Co. will be missed. RE: Zooomr, we're stronger than ever. Remember, Zooomr is free UNLIMITED photosharing. No limits. We've recently built-up a team in Japan and growing like crazy because Flickr cannot legally enter Japan at all. :) Article: http://jp.blognation.com/2007... - Kristopher Tate

Do any alternatives have a way to migrate from Flickr? That would be a killer feature. - Mark Trapp

Also, regarding our front page. It's shit, and we know it. The Japanese version is much better and we're going to update the english-front page soon. Japanese Zooomr Home: http://jp.zooomr.com/ - Kristopher Tate

Mark, you can migrate using an App called Migratr: http://www.callingshotgun.net/about... - Kristopher Tate

Kristopher, very nifty, thanks. Maybe I'll look into moving off of flickr to something more 2.0er. - Mark Trapp

Mark, sure -- If you're ever feeling like going Unlimited, give Zooomr a shot: http://www.zooomr.com/signup/ - Kristopher Tate

how many products are forever managed by their original founders? everybody needs to calm down - @baratunde

Jeremy, Bwana - I totally agree that people are jumping the gun here. No disrespect to Stuart and Caterina who built a great service but who cares if they're leaving. This service had been under Yahoo management for a long time now. The founders gave up control of Flickr the day they sold it. - Mike Doeff

All things considered, it is a good idea to just to check out other options. SmugMug looks cool. I've uploaded some of my stuff http://trishussey.smugmug.com/gallery... . Will I switch from Flickr? Not right away. Will I will ready to if needed? Sure. - Tris Hussey

Deja Vu - Yahoo buys Flickr. Everybody panics, exports their pictures. We see how that turned out. - Bwana ☠

I use both Flickr and Smugmug. I love Smugmug's features, but Flickr is still where the community is. I've integrated Smugmug into my site - http://leolaporte.smugmug.com - that's one of its nicest features. Great support, too. - Leo Laporte

Seems to me that SmugMug is best if you are sharing with family and close friends and Flickr makes it easier to share across a wider community. Both sites can co-exist and be very successful. Why do we always need to declare one winner in every cateogory? And I'll say it again. Base your decision on your requirements for photo sharing, the features of the site, and the performance/reliability. Don't base it on the names of the people who are running the site. - Mike Doeff

Good list. I think Ipernity should be on there too. It's a strong alternative. - Chris Nixon

Duncan - Great post! I would also recommend (because I work there) photrade.com. We let users share protect and make money from their photos. (you actually wrote about our adnetwork back on Techcrunch). - Krista Neher

I have to agree with Mike Doeff. Despite having “photo hosting” in common, Flickr is a very different product from SmugMug. My friends & family aren't even viewing my Flickr photos; I use Flickr for the wider community, and other approaches for friends & family. - Amit Patel