Ken Sheppardson
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Steven Hodson posted an entry on WinExtra
Pissed at Motrin? Time to get a grip
22 hours ago - Link
Well said, this is getting ridiculous. - Aram Zucker-Scharff
3 more comments
Have we reached the point yet where there are as many indignant blog posts objecting to the people objecting to the ad as there were posts objecting to the ad? - Ken Sheppardson
I wish I could do something people could take offense to and spend all of their time talking about me. Or maybe talking about people talking about me. - Dustin Sallings
@Ken give it a couple of days :) - Steven Hodson
@Dustin I've been trying for years and it still hasn't worked <snicker> - Steven Hodson
This story is getting framed in all sorts of ways - whatever's convenient. Look, let the outraged play themselves out, and if the advertiser is smart, they'll pan the gold from the river of tears - it's not marketing research by phoning landlines at dinner time anymore, it's the aggregate of "Don't call us, we'll call you" messages from the internets. - Micah Wittman
FriendFeed
Jesse Stay posted a message
“Looking for recommendations on new music to buy from iTunes. Please Respond on FriendFeed if you can ->”
23 hours ago - via twhirl - Link
Snow patrol. - Alan Edgett
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Dream Theater!!!!!! - Walter Reade
Who do you like? My friends in NYC turned me on to MGMT, the new Kings of Leon, and I'm partial to South American stuff like Celso Fonseca. - Fantasy Football
I like new stuff - you name it. Looking for stuff I either hadn't heard or forgot about. - Jesse Stay via IM
Try putting in people you like on Pandora and see what comes up. Plus, if you Tweet artists maybe that will help us make suggestions. - CJR
My recommendation: don't. Sign up for Last.fm, Pandora, or better yet... a two week trial of Rhapsody and just start listening to things. Then start harassing Apple RE why they don't offer a subscription service. - Ken Sheppardson
Here is my last.fm profile, but don't let that influence you. I really like a little of everything. http://www.last.fm/user/jesses... [http://www.last.fm/user/jesses...] - Jesse Stay via IM
kshep, I like owning my music though - it's just a psychological thing I know, but it's fun picking out new stuff when I get a little money here and there. - Jesse Stay via IM
the Flobots - ♣genieyclo♣
genieyclo love Flobots! - Jesse Stay via IM
Alright, alright... you can still buy music. I won't try (very hard) to stop you. ;-) But I'd say it's well worth the cost of an album per month to be able to explore and listen to whatever you want when the mood strikes or somebody mentions a group. - Ken Sheppardson
I like last.fm. I just found out today they use some of my software. I like them more now. :) - Dustin Sallings
Dustin: You hit them up for a free sub yet? ;-) - Ken Sheppardson
I'm pretty happy with the free service. What do I get if I give them money? - Dustin Sallings
Check out Linkin Park's album Reanimation - ♣genieyclo♣
Dustin: To tell you the truth, I don't really remember. I think I gave them $3 once for some reason. Made sense at the time. - Ken Sheppardson
I like them. I don't completely understand why. I don't feel compelled to give them money, though. I do feel compelled to give skitch money, but they aren't asking for it. - Dustin Sallings
dlsspy if you ever feel compelled to give me money I'm right here man :-P - Jesse Stay via IM
Jesse, hit the "Genius" button in iTunes. It will match up music in your own collection you might have forgotten about and/or will suggest tracks in the music store to purchase. - Jared B. Luther
Jared, thing is I want stuff not related to my collection - new stuff that I may not have seen before or even known I liked. Genius, Last.fm, etc. don't quite do that. - Jesse Stay via twhirl
the Tingtings - sofarsoshawn
buy a tribe called quest - tony vaio
FriendFeed
anna awesomesauce posted a message
“Friendfeed makes me want to get a kitty.”
23 hours ago - Link
kitties rule FF! :) - Susan Beebe
:) (or should I say LOL?) - Abby Martin
I'm fine with just teh candids - Josh Haley
I used to have one, but now I'm allergic and planning long vacations, not best time. - anna awesomesauce
FriendFeed
Duncan Riley posted a message
“It's a sad state of affairs that 50-100 people whining about nothing becomes a major PR incident. The myopia in this space is so telling by the coverage of those in it and their inability to actually look outside the space”
24 hours ago - Link
Hey, I know, let's have 5-10 people spend the day blogging about how the Motrin Mom folks are wasting time and effort and just have it echo around for another "news cycle". - Ken Sheppardson
13 more comments
Echo chamber run amok - JonathanJoseph
I missed the whole ordeal over the weekend. Watched the ad and was like : "So?" Ads are not that influential. I'm not going to change my opinion about moms carrying babies based on one stupid Motrin ad. - Jason Kaneshiro
I'm hiding everything I see related to this. Just not very interesting. - Chris White
All the continued press is doing is inflating their egos and making it seem like they actually did something notable - BCK via twhirl
what are you talking about? - Baratunde Thurston
Wow. No wonder women complain about men's cultural blinders. Men can whine and piss and moan about stuff that is silly and it passes for good debate. When the issue touches on something that requires an X chromosone to be directly affected by it, men dismiss it. - Rod Bauer
Rod, your comment is beyond sexist and where do I start. Believe it or not men use slings as well and this isn't the 19th century, it's the 21st, and in my house I do the traditional "mom" thing. This isn't about women, this is about a gross over-reaction because a handful of people couldn't relate. I've spoken to plenty of women already who could relate to the message - Duncan Riley
oh, yeah, and I could relate to it because slings HURT MY BACK. - Duncan Riley
Ditto on that. There is a condition known as widow's back or something like that caused by carrying your child on one side of your body and causing strain. At last my 8-year old is too big now to want to be carried all the time. When she was younger I probably could have used one of those slings and saved my back a little. And I don't think I'll say anything else on the subject. - Chris Loft
Duncan, the ad was aimed at women. My comment referred to how women and men have responded to the targeting and tone of the ad and had nothing to do with who uses slings. - Rod Bauer
Rod, you're presuming that all women find the ad offensive, they don't. A few, likely less than 100, even as low as 50, got vocal about it. The common thread is they couldn't relate to it. Walk out your door and ask other women if they could...many will. Resorting to making this a sexist thing simply belittles your argument Rod, it's not. - Duncan Riley
Why is this getting so much attention? Can we drop it and move on? - Bwana
Duncan. My interest was and is how many men have responded to the women who have complained about the ad. I've seen many men dismiss their concerns. I think a lot of women will see in that a continuation of a pattern to belittle women's concerns when they attempt to dialog in social media about issues relating to women, and this issue did begin that way as Motrin targeted women in their ad. - Rod Bauer
Rod, no one is belittling their concerns because they are women. I fully respect that some people felt this way, I have ZERO respect for the way they reacted. - Duncan Riley
Those 50 - 100 people speak for many thousands more. The fact that some babywearing Mommy bloggers are vocal and have visibility is what it is. If a celebrity were to say that they found that ad offensive, that would receive press coverage. Mommy bloggers using Twitter (which is in the mainstream press' eye to some extent) to make a statement becomes news and has influence. That particular ad, as someone else noted, may appeal to a certain demographic. It didn't appeal to crunchy babywearers. - LauraBrarian
Google Reader
Ken Sheppardson shared an item on Google Reader
CEO Forum: Microsoft's Ballmer having a 'great time' - USATODAY.com
yesterday at 11:15 am - Link
Ballmer in April 2007 - Ken Sheppardson
FriendFeed
Thomas Hawk posted a link
Pirates take 'super tanker' towards Somalia - CNN.com
Pirates take 'super tanker' towards Somalia - CNN.com
yesterday at 10:04 am - via Bookmarklet - Link
NAIROBI, Kenya (CNN) -- Pirates who hijacked a crude oil tanker off the coast of Kenya are approaching a Somali port, the U.S. Navy said Monday. The Sirius Star -- a crude "super tanker" flagged in Liberia and owned by the Saudi Arabian-based Saudi Aramco company -- was attacked on Saturday more than 450 nautical miles southeast of Mombasa, Kenya. The crew of 25, including British, Croatian, Polish, Filippino and Saudi nationals, are reported to be safe U.S. Navy Fifth Fleet Cmdr. Jane Campbell said the super tanker weighs more than 300,000 metric tons and "is more than three times the size of a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier." Oil industry insiders say a tanker of this size can carry up to 2 million barrels of oil, and the ship's operator, Dubai-based Vela International Marine Ltd, says it is fully laden. - Thomas Hawk via Bookmarklet
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Probably the same gang of Somali pirates who captured that Ukrainian ship with 33 tanks and military weapons. Interestingly, reports have shown that pirate "mother ships" travel far out to sea and launch smaller boats to attack passing vessels, sometimes using rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs). - Kevin Lim
I think somebody forget to remind these guys that the International Talk Like a Pirate Day is Sept 19, not November 17. - Thomas Hawk
...spawning a paramilitary industry of armed ship escorts? - Glenn Batuyong
I think it's time one of these governments got the balls to blow up one of these ships. I think the one full of tanks is should be the first target. Take it out, Pirates and all. If they don't this problem will only get worse. - Kenton
Has Kevin Costner been dispatched to take care of this yet? - Ken Sheppardson
Who would have imagined the Internet and Pirates co-existing in the same era? - Charlie Ramirez
@Charlie umm...the RIAA? :p - Neal "thePuck" Jansons
@kshep Steven Seagal :) - Michael Bravo
If you really want to be shocked watch the Weekly Piracy Report from the ICC for a while. Or Look at their live map of incidents world wide from this year. http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.p... - Bluesun 2600
Nice add on the Piracy Map. Though it's not surprising. The Gulf of Guinea has been non-stop lawless for millennia. - Christopher Harley
welcome to XXI century ;) just say loud "WE NEED CHANGE" - probably pirates will be scared off by Obama's speeches :) - silpol
That was hilarious, silpol !! +10 - J. D. Ebberly
unfortunately, the only practical approach is making Somali shoreline into "line of death on sea" - yes, this means fishers will be treated same as pirates. This is (almost) barbaric, but the only feasible way - "got your boat on water? say good bye to your life." ... wonder how this fits into corporate budgets... - silpol
House of Saud will rent USA navy for protection....Problem Solved. - imran
Google Reader
Ken Sheppardson shared an item on Google Reader
Robert Reich's Blog: If They're Too Big To Fail, They're Too Big Period
Sunday at 1:55 pm - Link
"We seem to have forgotten that the original purpose of antitrust law was also to prevent companies from becoming too powerful. Too powerful in that so many other companies depended on them, so many jobs turned on them, and so many consumers or investors or depositors needed them – that the economy as a whole would be endangered if they failed." - Reich - Ken Sheppardson
Google Reader
Ken Sheppardson shared an item on Google Reader
Why GM's Plan Won't Work
Saturday at 11:00 pm - Link
So since they haven't been able to fix the problem, this will likely end up costing the taxpayers $25-50 billion - Ken Sheppardson
FriendFeed
Thomas Hawk posted a message
“Barney Frank just announced that he's going to hold hearings in Congress next week on a bill to advance $25 Billion to bail out the U.S. auto industry.”
November 12 at 11:26 am - Link
Bummer. :( - Jason Shultz via twhirl
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I don't think that it's going to gain the political momentum to pass in the end. I still predict GM files Chapter 11 by Christmas. There's already a bad taste in people's mouths about the last bailout and I think politically most people think that we just ought to let the automakers fail. - Thomas Hawk
Without preconditions, we may as well just burn the money. Its just putting off the obvious - the present business model is not working. - JC unwired
Thumbs down to this. - Jason Kaneshiro
Ever done it? It can be a lot of fun! - Greer Trice
Lucky for the automakers, Frank, Feinstein, Pelosi and their ilk would never even consider listening to the people that they represent... - Mark VandenBerg
Instead of funding bad companies, let put money in new tech like Tesla. I would rather give them a huge loan to take over GM's manufacturing and build electric vehicles. - Chris W
I agree with JC. I just called my senators and representatives to encourage them to not support the bailout. Of course, I'm not a lobbyist so why will they listen to me? - Jason Shultz via twhirl
Even if they get the money, would you buy a GM car after all this talk of bankruptcy? I doubt many car buyers would feel optimistic about warranty support and resale value. - Cains
They should do what the IMF and World Bank do -- loan them money at crazy interest rates and then put officials on their boards to make sure they're following all of their crazy rules - Shey
Capitalism doesn't work when you remove the disincentive to do stupid things. GM should fail b/c they're not competitive. Fail or become competitive. Who will be next in line for a big-government handout? - Dave Roth
@Dave In principle, I agree. But it's hard to swallow thousands of people losing their jobs. - Shey
@Shey It is. Let this be a lesson to others: own your own retirement, don't count on anyone else (read Social Security) to take care of that for you. - Dave Roth
Let them fail. The automakers failing IS capitalism "working". They do not produce a product people want at a price people will pay - so they fail. That isn't an indictment of capitalism but a example of why it works. Capitalism is the business version of natural selection. Of the auto makers aren't truely free players though - in many places, for instance, their ability to deal with crazy demands from unions is tied by the government so they have also been seriously weakened by them and other factors. Either way, let them fail. - Soulhuntre via twhirl
I can swallow it. Innovation and Creativity can arise from the ashes of failure. No longer constrained by the fear of losing their jobs, many will take the opportunity to fulfill their dream of creating something of their own. At least, that's the terribly optimistic view. - Jason Shultz via twhirl
The US Govt. is getting into the car business. Face it. They are bailing out the auto industry because apparently our economy depends on it. However, the US Auto industry is failing because while a Charger looks awesome, what I'm actually gonna BUY is a good looking, affordable car that gets great mileage, probably Japanese. So, Detroit is going to need ANOTHER bailout in a few years because all of the gangsta rappas already have Escalades. Unless you subscribe to the SUV theory of trickle down urbanomics. - Brian Norwood
even if they fail and run out of money they got hard assets like plants, They'd go through the usual bankrupt reorganizing and still be around in some form. If the banks fail they don't have the hard assets, all they got is people's confidence, and that can't be regained easily (at least thats what I got from my insane macroeconomics professor who ranted on this yesterday) - BCK
Do not like! - AJ Kohn
hearings are going to be on next Wed. I suspect they'll carry them live on CNBC. - Thomas Hawk
all the cable news networks will probably carry them, and of course they're good old CSPAN - BCK
More details on what Barney Frank is proposing here: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/... - Thomas Hawk
"`Where does this stop?'' Bachus said. ``We started with financial services, we went from banks to insurance companies,'' he said. ``Does it end with manufacturing? What about retail?'' In addition to passing through the Democratic-controlled House, any legislation must be approved by the Senate, where the minority Republicans can stall legislation through endless debate. There, the top Republican on the Banking Committee, Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama, signaled that he opposes aid to automakers. ``The financial situation facing the Big Three is not a national problem, but their problem,'' Shelby said in a statement. ``I do not support the use of U.S. taxpayer dollars to reward the mismanagement of Detroit-based auto manufacturers in such a way that allows them to continue and compound their ongoing mistakes.'' - Thomas Hawk
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said yesterday she wants ``immediate action'' to give automakers additional assistance as shares of General Motors Corp. yesterday hit their lowest level since 1943 and analysts say the company faces possible bankruptcy. President George W. Bush hasn't yet said he would approve any further aid to those companies. - Thomas Hawk
I can't add to this convo except to say I don't approve of this bailout, even though a lot of people are going to lose their jobs. Like other people already said, this won't teach failing companies to take responsibility for their mistakes. - Cheryl Jones
No, but it does allow the government to keep its friends happy, by giving them our money. - Ian May
Let's just give every failed industry a key to Fort Knox. - Michael Tefft
@Michael I'll be first in line at the door. - Jason Shultz via twhirl
All of this bailout shit.... I'm still not seeing fuck-all of what's in it for ME. Do I get shares of any of these companies in exchange for my financial support? Do I get any kind of ownership or control or reward? Screw these companies. Let them burn, and let's get our economy back DOWN to where it's apparently meant to be. It's not even a house of cards; it's a house of ... pudding. Rotten, rotten pudding. - abacab
Sure, Michael. I'll go right into the buggy-whip industry, then. - Ladybug Heather
This makes me sick to my stomach. http://www.npr.org/news/specia... They are losing because they are bloated. Get Lean or die - Christian Burns
The 460,000 retirees and $1500/vehicle in health costs mentioned in the NPR story above are a big part of the problem. I wonder how much it would cost for the government to assume responsibility for supporting those 400K+ folks? - Ken Sheppardson
looks like Obama wants to help them. It will be interesting to see how this plays out this week. - Thomas Hawk
Twitter
Ken Sheppardson posted a message on Twitter
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Ken Sheppardson posted a message
“OK, not I think this is a little too spooky: I was just checking out this timeline from CAEN, where I worked as a student from ~1986-1991 http://is.gd/7ECd (check out the 1986 picture) when what pops up in Google reader? http://is.gd/7BPL”
Saturday at 12:04 pm - Link
Bah... not 1986... 1989 Randy Frank with Bill Joy. - Ken Sheppardson
FriendFeed
Mark Krynsky posted a message
“Question: When & Where was the first time you saw the WWW?”
Question: When & Where was the first time you saw the WWW?
Friday at 11:54 pm - Link
Me...a booth at winter Comdex of '94 or '95 (not positive) strangely enough I don't recall the vendor or product but spent tons of time picking his brain to learn more about the net & the web. (edit I was 28 or 29 years old) - Mark Krynsky
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I miss mosaic... I miss the web being 80% text and 20% graphics... sometime around 94 for the www... I was on usenet and IRC before that - Sean Reiser
home computer, 93-94, accessed via local BBS, then through winsock and netscape 1.0. game changing moment for me - sean percival
the sysop had to walk me through the whole thing via 2nd phone line, it was rather involved, and man was he proud - sean percival
Sean...cool...when I returned I went through Microtimes and saw ads for several ISP's and ended up signing up with this tiny outfit called Earthlink. They had to mail me a floppy with the TCP/IP stack for windows 3.1 then fax me a page with all the settings (DNS, Gateway, Mail etc.) I still needed to call support to get it going but it was Awesome! Oh yea, I was one of Earthlink's earliest customers, they had just opened up shop. - Mark Krynsky
NCSA Mosiac on my Mac LCII back in 1993. Before www, back in mid-late 80s, used archie, gopher, lynx, usenet & bbs's on my Radio Shack TRS-80 Model III using 300 baud modem. - Brian Daniel Eisenberg
AOL - LOL!! - Mona N.
Mona...doh! SuperFAIL! - Mark Krynsky
I was on AOL for years. I don't remember even realizing that BBS was a thing. But when I got into high school I remember seeing some kids looking at... um... interesting pictures of some young ladies. And I decided to explore the net. I found a lot more than just... um... interesting pictures of young ladies and slowly got hooked. So it must have been around 95-96 when I got outside of the walled garden. - Occasional Headbanger
In the university office of one of my dad's friends (who died recently), he had Mosaic running and showed us this new thing called the World Wide Web. Fond memories. - Vincent X
I was quite the Compuserve trial package abuser back in the day. Also had a blast on those early multi-line dating BBS'. - Mark Krynsky
AOL, 1994. The Internet blew my mind from day one. - Steve Isaacs
1991, Austin, TX, having just started a job with a company called Evolutionary Technologies (though I had been on the 'net earlier via telnet/nntp/mail). - Glen Campbell
I also ran a BBS on my Atari 800 in '83. My handle was "The Banshee" and my BBS was called Ban's Dark Castle...as my wife sometimes says...Nerdtron! - Mark Krynsky
I saw the WWW well before I ever had access to Mosaic. I was using lynx on an Ultrix machine in the late 80s/early 90s. Don't remember the exact time. - Akiva Moskovitz
Wow...you guys are some hardcore old schoolers...make me feel like such a newb :) - Mark Krynsky
October of 1996. I know this because it was the month before the Romeo and Juliet movie came out and I saw an ad in a magazine for a website associated with the movie. I really wanted to look at the website and my dad had the internet at his office so one day after school, I went over there and used his computer at his office to check out the website. - Rochelle
Mark: Ran a BBS at some point too, it was called CyberDream... Was just for friends though. - Vincent X
'92, college job, "monitoring" the students on the mac classics & some NeXts. I showed some friends how to look up phone numbers and addresses of students at other schools using gopher. I remember seeing the coffee pot video at MIT. Aw... Best thing was infrared satellite images of Earth, though, that was my default screen for a long time. Job was until '94 - anna awesomesauce
The ISP I used to dial into, Primenet, had a text gateway. This was back in 1993 or early '94. (http://web.archive.org/web/*/h... archive only goes back to 1996.) WWW was an option under one of their menus. I was mostly on USENET back then. I'm not sure how I stumbled upon the web. I remember using Mosaic, then Netscape while it was in beta when I started going to Cal State Fullerton. Good times! - Oliver Ortega Chua
My Web : since 1997. - Igor Poltavskiy
Home, working on my SysV box (I had another with a Linux .092 alpha) using my telebit trailblazer :) - Soulhuntre via twhirl
Akiva: Lynx was released in 1992, so that rules out the late 80s. ;) - Vincent X
haha I found myself! http://web.archive.org/web/199... - Oliver Ortega Chua
Must be thinking about gopher/WAIS, then, Vincent. - Akiva Moskovitz
Here's a better link: http://web.archive.org/web/199... It looks like my memory was wrong. Delphi was my first ISP. (I was also on Prodigy, CompuServe, Netcom and, yes, AOL, too.) - Oliver Ortega Chua
I can't remember. I had an Apple II with floppies growing up but never really used it. In 1992 I was in the 1st English class at my college that was computer based. I remember having to format the discs before using them. It must have been 1993 or 1994 when I was shown the wonders of the WWW. - Miranda
1994 in Berkeley. Dual booting Win 3.11 and Linux 1.0 (Slackware FTW!) No ethernet, just 14.4 kbps and PPP. We were doing all our web browsing and gophering with Lynx, either directly from Linux, or telnetted into an Ultrix or BSD server on campus. The guy down the hall showed us Mosaic 0.9 on Win 3.11. He was already browsing pr0n. The first site he hit was www.playboy.com. LOL I think he was the reason why the computer labs immediately came up with usage guidelines. Ah memories. - Victor Ganata
It was Feb 1996. I now the date because I recently discovered the first site I went to, which still exist. It lists the month and year they started, and I sign up sometime that month. I was on compuserve in the late 70's my mosaic looked just like that. but I first logged on the web with an Amiga! - Michael Fidler
I don't remember the exact date but it was probably when I was in college. I've been online since 300 baud though. First with Quantum Link on the Commodore and then on to BBS's. - Rodfather
Haha...Playboy.com...Archive.org's oldest page is from '96 http://web.archive.org/web/199... - Mark Krynsky
The web didn't officially start until Jan 1995, which is hard to believe, It seems older, but that was compuserve. The only reason I waited until 96 was for an Amiga port of Mosaic! - Michael Fidler
Yeah Q-Link is *old* school. It was the Commodore 64-only predecessor to AOL. Even my dad got hooked. 300 baud. 170k floppies. 1 MHz CPU. 38k RAM. How did that all work back then? But in terms of the Net, I was on GEnie in 1992 and only had access to e-mail via UUnet or some such hackery. Didn't meet the actual Net until 1994. Does anyone still run a Gopher server somewhere? - Victor Ganata
I bought option in UUnet, and six weeks later MCI bought them. It was a nice return! - Michael Fidler
I was addicted to downloading SID music. I typed in code from a fat book to use the composer. There were some amazing composers on Q-Link. I remember DrJ5 was the shit. Any new song releases that came out, he would turn it into a SID song all from ear. Guitar solos and all. Like he would hear 'Welcome to the Jungle' and make it into a SID in a day. - Rodfather
Um, sorry, Michael, but the "web" as we know it (HTML over the HTTP protocol) was available in late 1989. The WorldWideWeb (1st browser) was released in 1991. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W... - Glen Campbell
People have differing opinions about what the "launch date" of the Web was, but most people agree it was sometime in 1993. - Victor Ganata
Yeah, the graphical web gained momentum with the launch of Mosaic in 1993 but existed in text-only format for at least a few years before. http://www.w3.org/Consortium/h... (I remember watching a History Channel documentary about it, too.) - Oliver Ortega Chua
Um, no. I was using Viola back in 92 (http://bit.ly/WLh3). Back then it was interesting hearing rumors of this fancy new browser called Mosaic. - Jauder Ho
Internet Explorer is the first browser I remember using. I've been on the net for at least 10 years if not more. - Shawn aka ringking
I remember buying "Internet in a Box" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I... - Mark Krynsky
Jauder, the Wikipedia entry you linked to says that Viola was popular "to a limited audience." I think most people can agree that Mosaic, if not Netscape Navigator (which gave props to Mosaic), was the killer app. - Oliver Ortega Chua
There was no version of Viola for either Windows or Linux. Although I don't think my machine at the time was capable of running X11 anyway. - Victor Ganata
It was in 1993 at "Kungliga Tekniska Hogskolan" in Stockholm, Sweden. That day I also tried CuSeeMe for the first time and was blown away by the fact that I could speak with someone in San Francisco over video conference. Within in a year I'd purchased my own modem and started my own foray into the Interrubes. - Eiwe Lingefors
Akiva: Gopher and WAIS were both launched/released in 1991 ;-) - Ken Sheppardson
Oliver, the question was not what was the killer app rather where and when one first saw the WWW. Besides, I have never heard of the assumption that the popularly held idea of the launch of the WWW was sometime in 1993. - Jauder Ho
Eiwe, I haven't heard CuSeeMe mentioned in ages =) I remember working with nv and the mbone around 95. - Jauder Ho
Jauder, I don't think we're on the same page. :) I assumed you were replying to me when you said, "Um, no." Now I guess you were replying to Victor. I think we're all in agreement that the web was created before 1993. I'm assuming what Victor meant by "launch date" (he put them in quotes, too) is that that was when the web took off. Think of it as a car. When you start the car, it's already working but it hasn't "launched" until you hit the gas! :) - Oliver Ortega Chua
Yeah, I sort of meant the earliest time that people not attached to academia in any way had easy access to the web. Up until Mosaic, it seemed like you had to be running some form of Unix to have direct access, and you were probably attached to a university or worked at a company that was contracted with a university. I do realize that Berners-Lee already had things running by 1990. - Victor Ganata
Blog
Brian Roy posted an entry on Brian Roy's Blog
The myth of “everything” - Responses to my view of Track
November 13 at 9:55 am - Link
Brian, I am glad that you are elaborating on your thoughts about track. Though I can be branded as part of the NGL Track cult, I understand where you are going with your argument of absolutes. I think that you have to remember that the experience some of us had with full-on track was a game changer for us as users. No, we can't get everything from every service in real time at this time & unless we develop a Scoble-like abilty to watch the matrix stream by and watch for patterns, it doesn't serve us well. But where do we draw the line? By country, by language, randomly? I had a very powerful experience in May on my mobile phone standing on a stage in Dubiln, Ireland, watching the conversation between concert goers in a crowd of 30,000 people happening in real time, realizing that our common experience would never be shared except through this fledgling communication interface.Others in the SoCal fires & the China earthquake had similar experiences. Keyword track from the firehose makes this possible. - Aron Michalski
24 more comments
Aron - thanks for the input. And - I agree with everything you said. My take is the user determines the scope. As a community we should advocate for COMPLETE OPENNESS - but not wait for it. There is utility that can be had in the limited scope/slightly less than real time we have available. As an example - I used FF-Filtered on election night to discover and view election posts from my FF stream. It was great... I got to ignore all the cat posts and photo memes and just pay attention to what I want to see. - Brian Roy
I think that the insane amount of data that can be used/abused from a feature like this shouldn't prevent us from being able to communicate with others, even if they don't currently exist within our sphere. I'm sure there are those who don't want to hear from me (& the services can prevent that from happening) but here is a way to find like minded people, kindred spirits & listen & learn. I suppose this will give marketers & attack minded people a way to invade as well, but we all are looking for filters. - Aron Michalski
Again, I agree. - Brian Roy
The fact that I'm either suffering from food poisoning or the stomach flu has me particularly grumpy today, so I apologize in advance. This isn't a "debate" to be won or lost, nobody thinks the various firehoses constitute "everything" and the fact that this continues to get spun into some sort of epic issue has me totally drained. I'm not in a cult, I can think for myself, I think there's value in trying to aggregate as much data as possible, and going back and forth on the same points constantly is futile - Ken Sheppardson
@kshep sorry to hear you're suffering. That sucks. I agree that it's not a debate, but to the extent that I, as a user, want to clarify my reasons for being a bit demanding, it does invite discussion. Plus, I'm a control freak. - Karoli via IM
Ken - nothing to apologize for... And (it seems like a trend) I agree. - Brian Roy
@karoli You've been perfectly clear. You're beating your head against a wall at this point. Seriously. This stuff isn't rocket science. - Ken Sheppardson
especially since we do not actually disagree... - Brian Roy
Yeah, we do Brian. I don't agree that it's constructive to write blog posts making statements like "So let’s take the two ideas one at a time and examine how tenuous their attachment to reality is." - Ken Sheppardson
Point taken - however that was not intended as an insult and if anyone took it as an insult or belittling their point of view they have my sincere apology. - Brian Roy
Oh, I'm sure nobody in the cult feels the slightest bit belittled. - Ken Sheppardson
To be clear - I never used the word cult. Never. I consistently use "track community". I did, however, point out that some of the assumptions/beliefs are myths. My intent was not to defame or malign - but to make a logical point. And I'm pretty sure the words I used back that up. - Brian Roy
Ok, I'll jump in...I used the word "cult" as a joke and didn't mean to imply that anyone used it other than myself. Now, where was that social media kool ade I was drinking? - Aron Michalski
Aron - thanks for lightening the mood... Any more art to share? :) - Brian Roy
I hereby christen the track cult Trakkies - Ted Gilchrist
Yup... here's an old fave... http://www.wassilykandinsky.ne... - Aron Michalski
lovely - thanks! - Brian Roy
It's a strawman, Brian. Nobody believes the "firehose(s)" is/are "everything". It's a "myth" that only exists as a construct to support your point. - Ken Sheppardson
http://homepage.mac.com/m5comp... - Ted Gilchrist
So, if you can't have everything what is the point in all the concern over getting everything? Isn't the representative sample enough? Won't the nature of the social graph (in aggregate) solve for the flow of information that has value? - Brian Roy
And more to the point. WE DON'T DISAGREE - The broader the scope the larger the potential value. I've said that repeatedly. I've also said there is great value in what is available today. - Brian Roy
Please don't keep saying we don't disagree--particularly in all caps, and particularly when you just asked me a question that seems to indicate you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm going to bow out now. Could you ligten the mood again, Aron? - Ken Sheppardson
Key to "track community": “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”--George Bernard Shaw. No one expects everything, but we know when we've tasted freedom, then have it curtailed or revoked altogether (& Tw*tter et al doesn't owe it to anyone--we owe it to ourselves). So, Are we squabbling over the revolution itself or just which brand of tea should be dumped in the harbor? - Micah Wittman
"We want the world and we want it now"-Jim Morrison Who is dead and can't do anything about it. - Aron Michalski
Ok, if we must sample, you can omit Mary Jo Palinski or whatever her name is... - Aron Michalski
+100 aron - for both the Morrison and Palin reference... - Brian Roy
FriendFeed
Dave Winer posted a link
Failure of auto industry could set off catastrophe - Yahoo! Finance
November 13 at 9:22 am - via Bookmarklet - Link
"Advocates for the nation's automakers are warning that the collapse of the Big Three -- or even just General Motors -- could set off a catastrophic chain reaction in the economy, eliminating up to 3 million jobs and depriving governments of more than $150 billion in tax revenue." - Dave Winer via Bookmarklet
33 more comments
If the American auto industry is no longer a viable business enterprise, no amount of government financial aid is going to save it. It's over. They blew it a decade or two ago. - Sean McBride
Except if they did the right thing and started making green cars. The only reason they didn't was to appease Dubya's oil barron bosses (that is, if you believe Bush's entire presidency was pwned by the oil industry). - V for Veselka
I'd rather this bailout not happen, but at a minimum the government shouldn't just give the auto industry money for "business as usual", which is clearly a failing model. Just as they changed the rules of the financial bailout to spur institutions to resume lending, if the auto industry wants our money, they need to give something back in return. We can start with accepting higher CAFE standards and add elimination of the tax breaks for large vehicles (like huge SUVs) that are falsely classified as "agricultural" vehicles. Ideally, there'd be some mandate that a meaningful percentage (5-10%?) of every company's model line will run on non-fossil fuels by 2012. That's eminently doable. The gov't has the leverage right now to make a backward ass, hidebound industry move forward and they should use it. - Kevin Pedraja
+1 Kevin - todd
Propping up these dinosaurs is the worst thing we could do for our economy in the long term. - Chuck LeDuc Díaz
+100 Chuck - V for Veselka
This is not a black and white issue. The auto industry was quickly retooled to make tanks and aircraft for WWII. Without an industrial base America is extremely vulnerable. Secondly, these are jobs and taxpayers and productive citizens, without the industry, we have a few million more unemployed. - Phil Boiarski
If you want to pump billions of taxpayer dollars into the auto industry, don't subsidize Hummers and Corvettes and inferior fit-and-finish sedans. Give it to the people innovating and working aggressively to reduce dependence on foreign oil. Help them start scaling up quickly so they can take over the responsibility of supporting the component and subsystem suppliers. Some candidates: http://venturebeat.com/2008/01... - Ken Sheppardson
We're actually doing a pretty good job of making tanks and aircraft right now. - Chris White
Phil, thanks for making sense. The people who think we could turn away and let the auto industry fail are, for lack of a better word, wrong. You wouldn't want to live in the US after that happened. The aftershocks would take down the entire economy. - Dave Winer
Bravo Phil, a more cogent argument for a socialist industrial economy hasn't been made since Leonid Brezhnev. And for the record, I'm a communist. - Chuck LeDuc Díaz
These bailouts, every one of them, simply enforces incompetence and stupidity in business. If the weak ones fail, the industries become stronger. Specifically to the auto industry, wouldn't the suppliers stay in business making parts for other companies? Wouldn't the other auto companies need to increase production/distribution? - Mark VandenBerg
Mark: Unfortunately one of the issues is the auto industry has excess capacity. We just don't need as many vehicles as the industry can produce each year. - Ken Sheppardson
No doubt a bailout will be bad for the country, but a failure would be worse. Do you think your pride could handle selling them to the Chinese or Japanese? If they would buy them (a big if). Those people have to work, and Detroit still sells half the cars in the US and there are lots more people who work for companies that depend on them. Figure out how to wind them down over 20 years, and let's do it, but we can't handle the shock of an immediate failure. Not when the cost of propping them up is so small. - Dave Winer
Some auto industry experts say the outside risk is 40,000 jobs. It's not like the entire auto parts, services, sales and auxiliary elements will just go away while everyone takes to riding bikes. - tom matrullo
+1 Kevin and Dave. The auto industry is vital to the American economy. Period. There should be conditions for the investment, but the industry as such is just too important to fail. If auto makers fail, I want it to be because there's a viable industry or other manufacturers around to replace them. A sudden failure would be devastating. - steplow = Steve Lowe
Dave Winer: on what grounds do you believe the bailout will work? What is the track record of the people who brought the American auto industry to this pass? - Sean McBride
Bailout or no bailout these rotting carcasses of companies will fail. - Brian Sullivan
It is a strange belief indeed that the government can save an industry which can't save itself. Is Barack Obama smarter about running the auto industry than the current management? - Sean McBride
I just keep returning to "creative destruction" that free market folks *used* to chant as a mantra. If there is any worth there, some other company can purchase it, and if not, let it fail. And I'm incensed as a taxpayer that I could end up propping up a crappy business that I wouldn't even by a product from! - Jason Kaneshiro
The bailout won't work -- it won't make our auto industry work. But... None of the auto companies are selling cars now, not the Japanese or Koreans or Europeans. No one is buying so no one is selling. Do you want to have an auto industry if the economy comes back? Or do you just want to give up? The other countries aren't going to let theirs go under, because its suicidal for them to. We won't either Sean. We're not stupid (at least not that stupid). - Dave Winer
Exactly, Brian. They all are beholden to the UAW which has bled them dry, while producing substandard products under the protectionism of tariffs. Why prolong the inevitable? The only problem I see is funding the pensions/healthcare for the retirees. Maybe that's where the 'bailout' money should go. - Mark VandenBerg
Ahhh, the UAW comes into it now. And that's why I said yesterday we need to invest in the Republican Party -- because the Democrats can't not bail out the unions. So four years from now the Republicans may well win the White House because someone has to tell the unions the bad news. Or maybe Obama will. That's his most turdlike shit sandwich. - Dave Winer
For those in favor of bailouts, what companies would you not bailout? - Chris White
So Dave -- you are arguing for a bailout that you claim won't work -- and you think that is not stupid? - Brian Sullivan
It's not a bailout, it's a loan with interest that the industry has a spotless record of paying back - Erin Kotecki Vest
How can the American auto industry pay back the loan, when it doesn't seem to be able to make products that people want to buy? That's how it got into this mess in the first place. - Sean McBride
The only possible way that this can work is for the US government to ban all auto imports immediately and put severe restrictions on "foreign" companies manufacturing in the US forcing Americans to choose between no new cars/trucks and inferior products (even then they might choose not to buy) - Brian Sullivan
I'm not arguing for anything -- you guys don't make the decision, we're just kibitzing here. The discussion here has absolutely no consequence. As soon as I'm arguing for things that becomes work. :-) - Dave Winer
Dave -- I admire your boldness in staking out a strong position on this issue. :) I also think it will be a nightmare if the American auto industry collapses. I'm just not convinced that the government can save it at this point. It has been making bad decisions for several decades now. - Sean McBride
Sean I'm absolutely sure the government will prop up the auto industry. It's not that I want it, it's just that it's so obviously going to happen. Just as I'm absolutely sure that we'll still have troops in Iraq at the end of 2009 (another hot potato/no win/shit sandwich). - Dave Winer
Dave -- your predictions are probably correct -- I'd bet on it. - Sean McBride
I suspect we're already in the "catastrophe" stage unfortunately. - Dion Hinchcliffe
Union haters should consider that we would not even have a "weekend" without unions. My grandfather worked for $6.50 a week and was paid for coal by the ton. Trouble was those who worked nearer the mine entrance would take his i.d. tag and replace it with theirs, claiming his labor. None of this is simple. Kneejerk reactions that don't think things through need to be weighed. We can take this chance to remake the industry into a smarter, greener business. Why not do that? - Phil Boiarski
@davewiner Oh, in that case, "spending" $50b to save $150b makes sense. - Mike Reynolds
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