Keith Teare - Comments

I hear Phil Windley and Craig Burton are going to be on today's Gillmor Gang. - Cliff Gerrish

Sounds like a great show! - Rob La Gesse

Hi Steve - Keith Teare

i've been missing the live action but the transcript from the last show was a fun read - Brian Hendrickson

"[Google] Wave is saying, okay, our structure model is (unintelligible) " lol @kevinmarks http://bh.ly/0w - Brian Hendrickson

@Scobleizer - got a Wave invite for me? - Keith Teare

i want a wave invite...she whined. - Karoli

Does whinining work? - Cliff Gerrish

guess we're going to find out. LOL - Karoli

So the discussion is SideWiki, not Wave -- Google still the topic. - Cliff Gerrish

SideWiki is a blogging tool. - Kevin Marks

wonder when SideWiki will come to my chrome. want it. - Christopher Harris

I was just about to say that. SideWiki. . . - Ron Hudson

Although, it's not really a wiki. - Cliff Gerrish

dont believe the hype ;) - sull

Seems like SideWiki, Echo and Disqus all do something similar. - Cliff Gerrish

http://bit.ly/DA - Kevin Marks

The web will become like Wings of Desire - We will all be able to listen to everyone's mind. - Arnie Klaus

Just wrote a Sidewiki entry on "Category Archives: Real-time" http://bit.ly/12HDF - Ron Hudson

We are thinking about you! - Arnie Klaus

http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2009... - Kevin Marks

Amorphous - Arnie Klaus

you guys should call up Leo Laporte and bring him into this conversation - Brian Hendrickson

I don't even understand the concept of chat gathered around the Gillmor Gang any more. Do they mean the comments on this post? - Matt Terenzio

Tina says KEVIN NEEDS TO SLOW DOWN! - Cliff Gerrish

invisible backchannels - Kevin Marks

Okay. - Matt Terenzio

sorry wasn't making fun of you kevin! - Brian Hendrickson

The difference between Sidewiki and Echo and Disqus is that Disqus and Echo give control over what get displayed to blog owner. - Robert Scoble

I wrote a side wiki for the /realtime page. There is no way to edit it? - Ron Hudson

But Sidewiki isn't something you add to your blog, it's just a portal that a small subset of users use to look at it - Brian Hendrickson

I'd like to see SideWiki allow WebHooks, so when you submit a post it can also update another service ... Kind of like Posterous - Ideas At Random

Control is an illusion. - Cliff Gerrish

Echo and Disqus can bring the sidewiki feed back into it - Kevin Marks

I's not controlling conversation I object to just reaching across a network and changing the way my content is displayed. I have no objections to a client side mashup or even a peer to peer - Matt Terenzio

You do have control over what you write. You don't have control over what OTHER PEOPLE write. - Ken Sheppardson

SideWiki is MOST dangerous because it isn't RSS-enabled, and there's no way to properly monitor it. - Ike Pigott

SideWiki has a feed for every page and for every user, wrong Ike - Kevin Marks

Y'all realize Diigo has been doing this same thing for a couple years now, right? Folks just haven't objected because they don't know about it. There will *always* be side converasations you don't know about that you can't control. - Ken Sheppardson

framing is wrong. I format my content to browser size (just devil's advocate, I don't do that) - Matt Terenzio

Kevin, I have yet to see the feed. - Ike Pigott

It's not "framing", it's a browser add-in. Only those who've chosen to install the "app" see it. - Ken Sheppardson

Scoble seems to advocate ignorance as a blissful state. - Cliff Gerrish

http://code.google.com/apis... - Kevin Marks

Nice nodes, Robert - Ross Mayfield

what do you want a feed for, Ike? Which page? - Kevin Marks

Gillmor suggests by his actions just now that there needs to be a judge(ment). Where is the referee. - Arnie Klaus

You could build a similar service that displays the comments from FriendFeed related to a specific page in the sidebar. IT's the same API http://ffcheck.com uses. Would you object to that, Robert? - Ken Sheppardson

I'd be interesting if SideWiki was a wiki - Ross Mayfield

why would that make you interesting? - Brian Hendrickson

as long as they don't change the display of my content, I think it's fine. - Matt Terenzio

SideWiki is really more of a palimpsest. - Cliff Gerrish

What is the difference between sidewiki and just twittering with a #scobleizer tag? - Ron Hudson

I am choosing to go to site A and I am choosing to install sidewiki. Why should site A control what I see there? - Ryan

You still have control over that frame, Robert. You don't (i.e. shouldn't) have control over my sidebar. - Ken Sheppardson

I'm stuck on bandaid. - Jay Cuthrell

http://www.google.com/sidewik... - Kevin Marks

cuz bandaid's stuck on me - Jay Cuthrell

Yeah, Ken you are right - Matt Terenzio

Robert - remember when I closed my FriendFeed account and you argued that I deleted YOUR comments stream? - Rob La Gesse

Nobody's modifying what you're trying to display. There's a supplemental app that's displaying additional information about your page, Robert. And you have nothing to say about it, nor should you. - Ken Sheppardson

Robert's totally right. Rock on - Stephen Pickering

Ken, bullshit - Stephen Pickering

You'll have to make a logical argument, Stephen. Epithets don't work. - Ken Sheppardson

It's his page - Stephen Pickering

It's my browser and desktop. - Ken Sheppardson

That was MY post that the comments were attached to. I deleted that linkage - which affected you, and you were pissed :) - Rob La Gesse

It's defacing his page - Stephen Pickering

Kevin, I just tried plugging URLs into that API, and it doesn't pull. - Ike Pigott

He delivered his page to my browser the way he wanted, once on my browser I can do anything to it - Ryan

you need to escape the :// stuff - Kevin Marks

Google Toolbar = evil :) - Rob La Gesse

Aren't all audiences shared, and the audience owns itself? - Ross Mayfield

You already do anything you want with pages in your browser. - Cliff Gerrish

But ken if a plugin said, here Google take this page I want and add all the extra metadata to it and return it to me. That is wrong. It's different than a local client gathering content and displaying the way the enduser wants. technicality, but that is law. and I'm no lawyer - Matt Terenzio

sidewiki isn't part of anybody's blog. it is an abstraction layer that becomes visible when a sidewiki user visits the blog - Keith Teare

Do I have the "right" to install ad-blocking plugins? Do I have the "right' to install Greasemonkey or Stylish to change fonts and background colors? - Ken Sheppardson

I did escape it: http://www.google.com/sidewik... - Ike Pigott

Robert is trying to say sidewiki is like yelp gluing reviews to restaurant doors. - Ron Hudson

Sidewiki is defacement - Stephen Pickering

Yeah, why do all these geeks even have Google toolbar, anyway? - Matt Terenzio

Who needs Sidewiki? - Jonathan Brown

no, you need the full URL with trailing slashes and everything - Kevin Marks

Spamwiki? - Arnie Klaus

No one - Stephen Pickering

actually, Robert's password IS his phone number :) - Robert J Taylor

But *I* as the reader, am the one making the choice to "deface" the page. It's not as if every visitor is being forced to read those comments. It's MY CHOICE to see them. - Ken Sheppardson

I did that too, Kevin. It didn't resolve, didn't pull in the very comment I left. - Ike Pigott

100% correct Ken - Ryan

SideWike is Google stepping in the same pile of dogshit that others have stepped in before. - Rob La Gesse

Imagine if Yelp went around gluing reviews to restaurant windows! Absurd! - Ron Hudson

There's money in blogs? - Jay Cuthrell

http://www.google.com/sidewik... - Kevin Marks

How about Instapaper, which bookmarks your page and reformats it for mobile browsing. Is that "allowed"? - Ken Sheppardson

Ken that would be fine if you were the only one who could read your defacement or see it - Stephen Pickering

I feel VERY sorry for the first company to get hammered in SideWiki during crisis communications. - Ike Pigott

Your defacing it and the public can see it - Stephen Pickering

Robert we are with you. - Ron Hudson

btw, I'm using Sidewiki on this FriendFeed page - Ross Mayfield

No you are not Stephen, if someone doesn't have sidewiki installed they can't see it - Ryan

Ike, they will be hammered somewhere else anyway - Kevin Marks

No, it's not the "public", it's all those users who've made the choice to view a conversation in a sidebar related to your page. - Ken Sheppardson

Not defacing the site - but MOVING the conversation - which affects branding, value, etc - Rob La Gesse

so its not defacement for all - Ryan

But if they do have sidewiki they do - Stephen Pickering

So you don't ever talk about blog posts or web pages on FriendFeed then, right, Stephen? - Ken Sheppardson

then they choose to see that content, it wasn't forced on them - Ryan

OK, at the count of three, everyone uninstall Google Toolbar. Then they will just build it into Firefox. And BECOME MS - Rob La Gesse

Kevin, you're right -- but THOSE posts and comments will be more easily sortable, findable, and addressable. SideWiki is way too chaotic. And since all the SideWiki comments live on GOOGLE domain, they will show up in search eventually! - Ike Pigott

Ken, hell yes, I do, but that's on FriendFeed and not on somebody's site - Stephen Pickering

"we had no choice" is the critical aspect that isn't being addressed by wider audiences - Jay Cuthrell

yes Ken, but just because you ask me, I can't legally send a copy of something to you. Not saying they do this here, but I bet they want to soon if they mix it with search data and deliver ads, for example - Matt Terenzio

If I told you that I was using the FriendFeed API to retrieve and display all conversations related to the page I'm visiting in my sidebar, would you object to that, Stephen? See http://ffcheck.com - Ken Sheppardson

They don't all live on Google's domain - that was my point about http://oneforty.com where SideWiki shows the TechCrunch RWW et al posts - Kevin Marks

people who publish web pages need to host a more friendfeed-like discussion experience if they want to counter the sidewiki effect - Brian Hendrickson

Steve - that IS an economically feasible plan - Rob La Gesse

I just made a comment on this chat using side wiki http://bit.ly/V8TWq but I don't see anyone else's - Ron Hudson

Ron - what I said - Brian Hendrickson

Quoting @GinaTrapani: "Prediction: Google Sidewiki will go the way of Google Knol (ie, you'll never hear about it again)" - Mike Doeff

http://www.google.com/sidewik... - Ike Pigott

SideWiki is poised to become Yahoo message boards or YouTube comments - Robert J Taylor

SideWiki is so Cuil. - Ike Pigott

Good. There will be a hell of a push back if it does take off - Stephen Pickering

This whole industry that attempts to monetize content by framing it in a particular context, i.e. wrapped by ads, is sorta doomed, IMHO. In the long run. - Ken Sheppardson

Brian I don't see your posts. just mine - Ron Hudson

Yeah, so what's next, Ken, Google will put its own ads on my site? - Stephen Pickering

No. I'm saying ads are dead. - Ken Sheppardson

I posted a direct link to a Sidewiki comment I added here. - Ike Pigott

please move on. - sull

Ike - when I clicked the link then I saw your link, but not mine or anyone else's - Ron Hudson

everything is a "backchannel" - sull

Ron, I refreshed the page, and no one else's SideWiki entries are displayed. - Ike Pigott

Don't backchannel me bro! - Robert Scoble

Which URL did you use, Ike? I think there are number of different URLs/views. - Ken Sheppardson

Scoble uses the backchannel to request we not backchannel him. - Cliff Gerrish

Life is a backchannel. - Ken Sheppardson

I have no idea what that means. - Ken Sheppardson

"Don't backchannel me bro!" tshirts would sell well I bet. - Jay Cuthrell

"Don't backchannel me bro! - Robert Scoble" - heh - Rob La Gesse

pretty soon we won't know what is true and who said it! we are doomed! - Matt Terenzio

What about DotSpots? Introduced at least year's TC 50 and finally launched a few weeks ago... http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Mike Doeff

I have to take several ibuprofen every day for my backchannel problem. - Jerry Schuman

Ken, find me the feed for this link: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_b... - Ike Pigott

SideWiki turns blogs into Fox News - Rob La Gesse

Mike -- DotSpots is the same issue as well. Very good catch. - Jay Cuthrell

So, what does SideWiki with Wikipedia mean? - Robert J Taylor

Sidewiki is the new standard for comments on all websites. Just install a Wordpress plugin for bringing Sidewiki entries into your blog comments. - Charbax

I see yours now Ike, I commented on a different url. SideWiki #fail - Ron Hudson

No Rob... SideWiki turns blogs into subway cars, in a town that sells permanent infrared spraypaint. - Ike Pigott

All systems need calibration or the noise takes over. - Arnie Klaus

ooooookay - Jay Cuthrell

we know that, but is it legal? - Matt Terenzio

Ike - nice - Rob La Gesse

"You're so 10 mins ago" <- this is Real Time, after all :) - Robert J Taylor

knew VRM would make it in here! - Matt Terenzio

Sidewiki will never take off and even if it does, there will be so much push back just like the digg framer that they will discontinue it - Stephen Pickering

Jay, yeah DotSpots raises the same issues but nobody is talking about them because they're relatively unknown (unlike Google) - Mike Doeff

I hope Google puts SideWiki in Firefox. That will be the start of the anti-trust investigation - Rob La Gesse

Sidewiki or something like it will absolutely take off, you just won't know about it. - Ken Sheppardson

I see the other comments now - Ron Hudson

Can't we sell in the sidewiki? - Arnie Klaus

My browser is not your place of business, Robert. - Ken Sheppardson

plugin functionality is quickly being surpassed by things like Comet/AJAX, so what's next.. who can write AJAX? - Jerry Schuman

but my site is my place of business (so to speak) - Robert J Taylor

Your browser isn't but when you can use it to deface his website, it is his place of business - Stephen Pickering

Jeez... we're going in circles yet again.. - Ken Sheppardson

Google isn't as well known as we'd like to think. Sidewiki should be enabled on every news article ever created. Every news article should have a Wikipedia stub. If Google assists, fine... but I'd rather see the overlay be outside control of any one company. - Jay Cuthrell

Friendfeed can easily bring sidewiki entries inside friendfeeds feeds - Charbax

I wish that death spiral would accelerate. - Jerry Schuman

I'm drawing a moustache on Robert Scoble right now. - Cliff Gerrish

This is about as useful as wave. I'm out. - Ron Hudson

Charbax: And FriendFeed in a sidebar can essentialy replace Sidewiki - Ken Sheppardson

There will be so much push back on this you won't believe it. This will be taken to court and Google ruled against - Stephen Pickering

What nonsense that guy just said - Stephen Pickering

I just pushed SideWiki into my Friendfeed, and my Friendfeed spools into my SideWiki profile, and it hasn't caused me any probl - Ike Pigott

Transient logic... next big push.. data push first.. logic push next. - Jerry Schuman

it is a document that is being passed across the web, despite how complicated the creation and distribution is. ultimately it is html and javascript - Matt Terenzio

Sidewiki needs to bring in Google Reader comments related to the "post"/page it's displaying. That'd be slick. - Ken Sheppardson

the document comes from a location, or multiple locations - Matt Terenzio

Sidewiki already brings in relevant related blog posts from blogsearch/google news - Charbax

Isn't the location metaphor broken, just like the silo metaphor. - Cliff Gerrish

we're resurrecting "compound document" architectures ala OpenDoc - Jerry Schuman

Right. Firefox? What? - Jay Cuthrell

I think anyone disclosing that would be subject to whisteblower status. - Jay Cuthrell

Someone has to host all the web's comments, I'd rather it be Google than Facebook. - Charbax

Charbax - I would prefer it is distributed - Rob La Gesse

maybe microsoft is the new microsoft and google is slightly changed google - Matt Terenzio

Okay... I'm out. (please allow me to continue with my fantasy that anyone noticed I was in) - Ike Pigott

Bye Ike. - Cliff Gerrish

Do we truly care who hammed a nail? Or do we mostly care that the nail was hammered properly? (pertaining to "identity") - Jay Cuthrell

I'd prefer that comments be distributed, and when you view an "entry" or some chunk of content, all the associated, linked comments on and items related to that item can be pulled from wherever they live and displayed for me, subject to filtering I define. - Ken Sheppardson

You can just load the comments from Google's Sidewiki server by simply copying from the RSS feeds. - Charbax

we don't want nails, just weak glue - Matt Terenzio

"please show your comment card" - Jay Cuthrell

Webmasters should not be able to filter comments. That's the whole point. Power to the people, not the current establishment of the web - Charbax

NASCAR? - Jay Cuthrell

I love the fact that if you run Kevin's twitter id through a twitter sentiment tool he's categorized as "post-graduate" ;-) - Jerry Schuman

that was google worthy :) - Jay Cuthrell

The NASCAR problem is the zillions of identity logins available on sites supporting openid. - Cliff Gerrish

Cliff - yeah that was the first google hit :) - Jay Cuthrell

Hey Ken, are you coming to IIW? - Cliff Gerrish

I wonder how NASCAR feels about that? ;-) I didn't get that as a top hit relating to mechanical engineering or marketing elements related to car racing. - Jay Cuthrell

I might... I should.... Nov 3-5 at the Comp History Museum? - Ken Sheppardson

Amazing. http://www.google.com/search... - Jay Cuthrell

Can you /sidewiki/ sidewiki? - Jay Cuthrell

Damn you Steve! - Rob La Gesse

Ownership of content is dead. - Ken Sheppardson

Yes, Ken. I'll be at IIW. - Cliff Gerrish

This event was Tricasted thanks to NewTek! - Rob La Gesse

Could you check the audio sync before posting this on Youtube? all the other Gillmor Gang Youtube videos seem to be out of sync - Charbax

Good show. - Mike Doeff

This show was TriCasted :) ... like that - Robert J Taylor

i'll have to pick it up on the rerun. deadlines and doctor's appointments intervened. - Karoli

Charbax google is working on fixing - Steve Gillmor

Google/YouTube is looking in to the sound sync problem. It's happend on a number of other videos too. - Cliff Gerrish

Is there an rss feed to download the videos from YouTube yet? - Christian Burns from iPhone

Christian: You can be notified of a new upload via this RSS feed: http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds... - Jack

Really interesting show. - Amyloo

Still listening to the show, but one idea that doesn't seem to have been brought up on the sidewiki debate is the fact that I can create a custom CSS template for a page (Scobleizer.com for example) and even further change and/or modify a website's appearance and look. What happens when Google creates a proverbial "sideCSS" widget to allow everyone easy access to modify the look of... more... - Chris Aldrich

Doesn't RSS already strip all the formatting from a website in order to transport one level of value? - Cliff Gerrish

Not every site has RSS. haven't you heard it's dead? - Matt Terenzio

"Hmm. But that's like including the word you're defining in your definition... How can you achieve good design if it requires a game "wrapped in a user-friendly design"? That's kind of the problem that I want to solve! ;)" - Chris Messina

Is it worth reconstructing capitalism? :-) - Keith Teare

For some, perhaps. I think it's worth considering how open source can be sustainable when we're no longer talking about a necessarily limited resource. Data is not food; the economics of its production and tools to farm it shouldn't necessarily come from the industrial-agrarian system. - Chris Messina

via nelson - Jeremy Zawodny

4 more comments

:-( - John μller

This is depressing. Didn't expect so many, I wish I didn't open the link :( - andrei_c

I'm sorry - RAPatton

Put those tweets on a map and I think you've got something really interesting. - Kevin D. White

I did one for "got a job". Was also interesting. - Keith Teare

If you are thinking of learning to code in the recession, here is a great place to start. - Keith Teare

Good to see you're taking matters into your own hands, Keith :-) Well done! Let me know if you ever need help. - Fred Oliveira

Keith Teare › Comments