Linda Mills - Likes - FriendFeed

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Bret Taylor to Bret's feed, FriendFeed News

We have received numerous reports of excessive FriendFeed posts showing up in Facebook this evening. While we are not 100% sure, it appears to be an issue on Facebook's end due to ignoring application settings. We have disabled all FriendFeed updates to Facebook until we are sure the problem is resolved.

July 29, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

sohbetchat, Chatsohbet, "Serhat Ozan" and 61 other people liked this

See http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... for more information - it seems to also have impacted Twitter's Facebook app. Again, we are not sure if it is a problem on our end or not, but we are investigating now. - Bret Taylor

13 more comments

Thanks Bret! FWIW when I checked the FF app settings in FB they were not the same options as I saw when I first set the app up. - FFing Enigma

my freindfeed application is not working on facebook, and fr rest of.. - Madhav Tripathi

Click. Flip a switch and that's it. You guys rule. - Pete D

Thanks, Bret. I've disabled it on my FB page and hope that cures what ails me. Appreciate the FF peeps being on top of it. - Derrick

Yet another reason I'm happy I don't have a FaceBook. :P - Trey Crossan

Good thing I only posted once to Twitter tonight. The duplication only happened once. Thanks for letting me know. - Louis Gray

Yay for communicative admins! - Brett Kelly from iPhone

*looks at own FB account* HOLY SHIT, WTF?!? - Joe The Sausage

Yep, I have drug references now due to not having context. Thanks alot FB. Thanks alot. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

I had the same with Twitter - Mo Kargas

Thanks Bret! - Andrew C (✓)

No problem, if I knew it was on your end, I wouldn't have cared, but thanks for letting me know about the situation. I was confused because it happened right as I was trying out a new twitter game. This was compounded by the fact that the game has no controls for turning off public messages. I'll bet they plan to add them later, but right now they want everyone to hear about it. It’s a... more... - Michael Fidler

Is it fixed? I'm afraid to go look:) - Michael Fidler

So, is it fixed?Every tweet, every everything is showing up as individual news feed posts for all my friends, this is too much and I'm likely to piss them all off. Options ... 1.Stop tweeting etc. 2.Ditch the FF Facebook application. Hmmm, it's a no brainer. Anyone got any updates on this? - Michael M Bailey

Leo Laporte

Now, Foursquare! Now, Gowalla! Now, Cliqset and Blippy! On, Flickr, On Smugmug, On, yFrog and Vidly. To the top of the stats, to the top of Street Wall. Plurk away, Pownce away, tweet away all.

December 23, 2009 from Cliqset - Comment - Like - Share

Morton Fox, Tim, Jenthemum and 15 other people liked this

omg - Charlie Anzman

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I wonder if Santa has Ford Sync - Johnny from iPhone

pownce is no longer - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

I still have no idea how this FriendFeed works. What is it? A Twitter clone? - Kevin

Nicely put! - blackChinahand

Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

Orphaned Track: Bach's "Little fugue" in Gminor - http://atmosmusic.posterous.com/orphane...

May 25, 2009 from atmosmusic's posterous - Comment - Like - Share

Linda Mills liked this

Bach's Little Fugue Gm performed by Rob Michael I recorded this piece as an experiment sometime around 2001. I played all of the parts on guitar. Good fun! Originally composed for the organ, this piece goes well beyond the range of the guitar: I kept tuning lower and lower. I had to give in and use a bass for a few of the phrases. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

2 more comments

Starting to share music that has never seen the light of day. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

Maybe rediscovering these old tracks may prompt a new album concept. Afterall, albums are a lot easier to make than they used to be. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

Bach meme? I'm in. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio) from iPhone

Robert Scoble

So, who is leaving FriendFeed?

August 10, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Internet Strategist, The Real sofarsoShawn, Mitchell Tsai and 139 other people liked this

And go where? Back to Twitter or...Facebook? - Manuel Mas

485 more comments

no idea yet.... see what happens. - Rob Sellen :o)

I have nowhere else to go. No where else gives me the high level of interaction that FF does. - Mel Buckpitt

Same FriendFeed as before, I'll still use. - Ben Parr

Of course if Paul hands me a few hundred shares of stock ... just kidding. Sigh. - Robert Scoble

I was going to ask how you felt about the purchase, but now I see - acedanger

Depends how much it changes. - Andrew Leyden

Why leave? - Mike Shulman

+1 Mel - I am gutted and don't know what to do if the main FF site closes - Matt Hooper

Why would I leave friendfeed? This place works well enough for me. - Talon Lardner

Manuel: back to my blog and Twitter, probably. I'm playing around with Facebook but it doesn't quite do it for me. - Robert Scoble

I'm sticking around unless there's some sort of mass exodus which I don't see an immediate reason for. - Mike Elliott

Not leaving 'til it closes, and I'm certainly not going to facebook or twitter even then. - Vicarbott

Mike: because I expect it will get shut down eventually if it doesn't get invested in, and if it gets no new features it will fall behind Google Wave and other projects. - Robert Scoble

This feels like that HBO Documentary about Brooklyn Dodgers going to LA haha. - Manuel Mas

And, actually, Google Wave seems to be the most obvious thing for me to try out from now on. - Robert Scoble

I will stick around until they move the features I like from friendfeed onto facebook. - BRҰANSAҰS

Isn't it a bit early to make decisions? Has there been an announcement that I missed that FF is going away? Even if it isn't where else is better at this point? - iTad

there used to be a kind of message board system ages back with FB. disppeared one day never to return, lets hope this will bring something of that back, who knows.. - Terry O'Fee

I can't wait to try out wave. ;o) - Rob Sellen :o)

Waiting and watching. Robert, I know you have a discussion tab on FB but its not the same. ;) - Melanie Reed

How soon before google wave becomes available to the early adopters/public? - BRҰANSAҰS

Mashable just published a How To Take Advantage of FriendFeed's Unique Features. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. A little late for that, no? - Stephen Pickering

I'll stick around to the bitter end. - Dave Metzener

Bryan: I heard they weren't handing out beta access to non-developers until September. Cold be wrong but that's what I heard - Mike Elliott

Robert, if you believe this is a good deal for both FF and FB - why are you leaving? - George F. Snell III

When should we cue in Titanic's last song by the band as FF sinks below leaving us all behind? - Manuel Mas

Why leave now? Until it is changed or killed, it still works just the same. - Jeff P. Henderson

Same assessment as you, I'll stick around but I need to find an option B now. I guess I'll go wherever Louis Gray recommends - Alberto Saavedra

I plan on sticking around for a little while longer. Not ready to jump ship yet. - David Finch

Melanie: yeah, real time really has me going. I will wait until I get a better sense from the FriendFeed team about what will be done here. I just am not getting the right signals from the team that there will be any investment in this. If that's the case, I'd rather invest my time somewhere else. Google Wave. Ning. Vanilla on Building43. Twitter, now that I got rid of the spammers. Etc. - Robert Scoble

I'll watch and see what happens. IF I feel that it would be useless to stay, I'll leave the site. - TeraDyne Azurepaw

I think the features of FF will be incorporated into FB (guilt free) and FB profiles will be more tied into FF. That's about all we'll see... - Gus

Scoble: Ning?!?! Really? - Manuel Mas

Manuel: hey, Pirillo is over there. :-) - Robert Scoble

I'm staying here until something else catches up. - Bruce Lewis

Robert, I can definitely see the value of your invested time on any service, but for the average user, what is the downside of sticking around here as long as the site still exists? - Jeff P. Henderson

hmm, ning. unexpected, but understandable - Alistair (alpinefolk)

@Scobleizer: The big crowd is not even at Friendfeed yet and you are already leaving? Someone will be by in a few minutes with a drink. Please help yourself and stick around for the conversation. You will be greatly missed should you choose to leave so soon. - David Damore

Social Media is a set of tools--I appreciate the connections I make, but I'm not getting too emotionally worked-up about the tools changing. FF probablywon't function as my Social Media hub much longer. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

I like it here, so I'll hang out as long as possible. - sean percival

Not making any set plans yet, but keeping my eyes and ears open. - Martha

And when Google buys Twitter, won't that be interesting - Stephen Pickering

Bruce: have you played with Wave yet? I'm wondering how good that is? I gotta get an invite. Off to beg someone cooler than me. :-) - Robert Scoble

I will continue to use it until it closes down in its current form. - Ashish

Google/Twitter vs. Facebook/FriendFeed - Stephen Pickering

I'm a little pissed that we haven't heard much from our other "rock stars". Where the hell are they? This concerns them, yet I can hear a pin drop. I think there secretly plotting. Roflmao - Jeunelle Foster

I'd bet Microsoft buys Twitter before Google does. - Gus

I haven't played with wave yet, but from what I've seen it's got potential. FriendFeed's got polish. - Bruce Lewis

I wasn't planning on going anywhere, but I guess I'll be spending more time on Social Median. Perhaps someone should start putting together a decent buddypress site? - Aram Zucker-Scharff

I might leave only because I quit facebook - I hate the mindset, the shallowness, and am afraid (make that certain) those people will come here - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Gus: Microsoft and Twitter deserve each other. They are both somewhat buggy and don't come up with new features very often. ;-) - Robert Scoble

I think I'll be heading back to Twitter until Google Wave is publicly available - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Robert: Since at the end of the day all these platforms are businesses and have to eventually make money does it make sense to keep investing time and effort into building communities on them when they can sell/merge at any time and dismantle the tools that keep the community in place? it seems like the portable community concept of something like Google FriendConnect now makes more... more... - Mike Elliott

The other rock stars are drinking. :-) - Robert Scoble

If Facebook had an easier way of connecting with people but not showing them all the personal stuff I'm willing to show to my close friends (and the stuff my friends post about me), I don't think I'd need anything like FriendFeed or Twitter. - Edward Coffey

Robert: I've played with Wave and I wouldn't really put it in the same category as FriendFeed at the moment. It's not really about sharing and conversing in mass form IMO. Its really conversation with maybe 20 people or so but its much more difficult to focus conversations about shared content. Let everybody know when you get an invite and your address so we can add you! :) - Brandon Titus

I'll stick around until the end. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood

It kinda proves a theory I have about us all being reduced (if I can use that word) to channels. I don't think social networking will go away, but as the internet and deals increase, so does the noise. Don't worry Scobe, you still show up in our Google reader every morning!! - professor daddyo

Man, what are we going to do without these discussions like this? - Stephen Pickering

Mike: No community is permanent. It's worthwhile to participate even if it's temporary. - Bruce Lewis

@Gus, Well MS has large stake in FB so I'm not sure about that. I'll stick around here till it peters out. The tech news rooms here are top notch. - Arawak

I don't use FF much other than for private rooms, so I'll stay for those. Whatever other activity I have (which is sporadic and generally not personal) will also remain. - Cheryl

I'll stick around until they pull the plug. - Morton Fox

Leave friendfeed? what's the alternative I'd really like to know. Is it facebook? - Tate

I'll stick with it as long as it's here and people are still active. FF4L!! - Cass

What is the next thing? Where do we go now? Not FB! But where? - Michael Liss

I heard it's MySpace - sean percival

I'm staying until the end as well. - Mitch

quick! everybody back to MySpace!!! - acedanger

what? leave and create a better version of Twitter? or start FriendsterFeed? - Andy Sternberg

The downside for me? I invest time in things that WILL BE not that are. That's always been what keeps my interest and now that I know that FriendFeed probably will not be, even if it takes five years to totally die, I've lost a great deal of interest in it. - Robert Scoble

Michael: I don't think anyone knows today where to go next, because there's no good substitute out there. We can only hope that the next destination will be obvious before they pull the plug. - Bruce Lewis

With the price of bandwith/computing halving every year, there will be a new one of these popping up pretty quick - Stephen Pickering

I'll just go to twitter. I have a facebook account but I hate it. Facebook is the walmart of the web. - Darrel Davis

Should we move to where?? haha - harri78son

I'll be here until something actually changes for the worse - Dennis O'Neil

harri78son you could come back over to my blog and we could setup JS-Kit Echo. :-) - Robert Scoble

Damn now I need a drink :) - Jeunelle Foster

I hate fb. Don't like tweeting. Guess I'll be keeping up with my feeds without the fun ff distractions :( - BEX from iPhone

That's right, Scoble is the catalyst for these longer threads anyway, so it might as well move to his JS-Kit - Stephen Pickering

Robert, that's a pity. I'm lucky to deal in things that only get more interesting as they get older. - Bruce Lewis

I'm torn. What are our options? - Kelly Mitchell

yeah~ definitly! @Jeunelle foster please come down, - harri78son

I see now...This whole thing was a ploy to get everyone visiting Robert's blog! I am outraged! :P - Brandon Titus

Brandon: OK, we can go over to YOUR blog. Got Echo? :-) - Robert Scoble

Bruce: Very true. I've tried to get into FaceBook but it's hard to get the clean conversation feed along with lifestreaming content. It just seems to be full of distracting noise even with the ability to filter with lists. - Mike Elliott

I'm here till the end. - Nolan Alston

Robert, the same could be said about Flickr, they haven't had much inovation since Yahoo bought them, but people still use the service in droves. - Jeff P. Henderson

Don't worry Kelly, a new one of these will pop quickly, if they kill this - Stephen Pickering

Kelly: we don't need to leave tonight. Let's trash the house first! :-) - Robert Scoble

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - Stephen Pickering

Brandon, that's funny. At the Boston FriendFeed meetup, everybody else had learned about FriendFeed through Scobleizer. I was the only one who found him through FriendFeed. - Bruce Lewis

I'm leaving my account here for now but I'll be removing all my feeds. - Got80s

Let's make the longest thread in FF history - Stephen Pickering

Anyway, for the rest of today at-least I reckon I'll be off FriendFeed - real conversation is being drowned out by the echoes of this deal. - Edward Coffey

Damn it. Why is Arrington always right! - Stephen Pickering

Jeff P. Flickr is different Yahoo bought them for their user base. Facebook bought Friendfeed for their features. - BRҰANSAҰS

Got80: why do that? Who cares if your feeds are going in here? - Robert Scoble

Edward: that is true. It caught us all off guard and we're still processing it. - Robert Scoble

Kind of huge things in this time,.hmmm - harri78son

Facebook bought FF for Paul Bucheit - Stephen Pickering

I'm staying here until there is a reason to leave. Though I don't hold out hope they'll keep the service alive forever... obviously, I'm always enjoysthin.gs too, but it's not quite the same. I REALLY can't see myself using facebook as much as FF though. - Ted Roden

I need an adult beverage. then I'll trash the place... - Kelly Mitchell

I despise FB. Please let them not just trash FF. - Adam Webb

Considering the free Google Wave protocol implementation and ejabbered work together, it shouldn't be too hard to quickly build a FF type service that's scalable. Combine that with EC2 and S3 and you could probably get a lot of runway before funding is needed. Robert, I think the next service you switch to should be part owned by you, considering I bet a lot of the traffic here was originated from you evangelizing. - Chip Ramsey

Bryan: it's worse than that. I'm hearing that Facebook bought FriendFeed for its team. Google Superstars. Makes Zuckerberg get out his wallet. - Robert Scoble

Where will be the next pasture Mr. Scoble? - Rami Taibah

Stephen: lol. Yes, the 50 million dollar man. But seriously, there's no doubt what they really want is the tallent. - Brandon Titus

I'm gutted about this, but I knew that Virb account would come in handy eventually... sorta... maybe... - Linda Mills

Holden, yeah, but it doesn't make sense to invest energy here when its eventually going to die anyway - Stephen Pickering

I'm new on FF so I wonder, are people leaving FF because you'll have to use FB to participate? - Christopher Doiron

Stephen: not only for Paul. The guy who started Google Talk is at FriendFeed. So is the guy who started Google Maps. - Robert Scoble

Among other ex-Google superstars. - Robert Scoble

Christopher, it's that the FriendFeed team's new bosses will turn priorities away from the site we love. - Bruce Lewis

They'll probably cannibalize FriendFeed... nom nom - Kelly Mitchell

funny how many people are joining friend feed on the news of this acquisition. i'm seeing lots of my twitter followers starting to join. - mark silva

Go where, do what? - frankiecarl

I say its WAAAYYY too early to speculate what will happen to friendfeed next. Let the drama of today die down. - BRҰANSAҰS

Yeah lets all get drunk and start a fight. This whole thing is hilarious to me. Funny how media can start a panic. I ain't goin no where, I like to coloring. - Jeunelle Foster

Bill: I said I won't leave until I hear more from the team. Why must you always be a drama queen? - Robert Scoble

Kelly, I wish they would absorb FriendFeed, but despite the talk I don't think openness and Facebook are compatible. - Bruce Lewis

Robert, Ex-Google Superstars is how I see it too. I don't see big plans for FF the sense was we were the last thing on their minds. - Melanie Reed

Can't help being an attention whore, its what I'm good at :) - Jeunelle Foster

Okay so we sit tight and wait and drink. lol - Kelly Mitchell

but there is no time to wait a special direction on internet, It's too fast!! - harri78son

Kelly: My analogy for this is like the female praying mantis luring the male for sex, then it bites its head off. You can see the pic in my story http://bryansays.com - BRҰANSAҰS

I'm in the eyewear business and so I always know how to make a spectacle of myself :) - Jeunelle Foster

Bruce: I agree. Wouldn't it be feasible for them to simply keep the two properties separate then? FriendFeed would be the open/public portion of Facebook and Facebook could stay closed and keep its current private user base. - Brandon Titus

Bryan, pretty graphic and right on the money. - Kelly Mitchell

Why shouldn't he pull out his wallet. FB needs to monetize. The ex Google Rockstars know just how to do that - Stephen Pickering

I'll stick around and see what happens, but might not bother so much with another 'social' web site again. - Grant Bierman

There's this optimistic talk about keeping FriendFeed around as R&D. I'm skeptical about it. - Bruce Lewis

I'll leave FriendFeed as soon as there's somewhere to go to; currently, I'm not convinced there is. - Tristan Seligmann

Also when you are hanging with the Master of the Universe for four hours, its sort of like Bill Clinton going to Korea. Kind of influences you. - Stephen Pickering

Rami: I don't know. That's why I'm talking with you. I just know I won't continue to invest my time in something that will soon get no more investment. That's not who I am. I will hang out with Louis Gray until he finds something cool. By the way, someone gave me Google Wave already, thanks! - Robert Scoble

This should be a reality television show. This is where the real drama queens will come out to play. - Jeunelle Foster

Leo's going to need a new show, TWIF - Stephen Pickering

This week in Facebook - Stephen Pickering

Anyone here ever feel like we're just being tossed around from website to website by the big players? - Christopher Doiron

Thanks Kelly :) - BRҰANSAҰS

Chris, Yep - Stephen Pickering

Bruce: I disagree with you about Facebook and openness. They are a lot more open than they used to be and are MUCH more professional and friendly than, say, Twitter is. - Robert Scoble

Robert, I look forward to your review of Wave. - Bruce Lewis

Openness and Facebook are not one and the same.... polar opposites. Bah humbug. - Kelly Mitchell

Yup the big dogs are sitting back laughing at this whole thing - Jeunelle Foster

It doesn't necessarily have to be "R&D" but really a completely separate product. Something like YouTube is to Google. Although that's a terrible analogy...I guess the products are too similar to keep separate. - Brandon Titus

I'd pay-per-view to see Scoble and Sebastian Bach fight - Mattb4rd

The Chinese government is much more open than it used to be. It still doesn't meet my standards. - Bruce Lewis

Bruce: also, Zuckerberg is seeing the real money is in search. So he HAS to be open to really do great there. - Robert Scoble

Robert: Any chance you could share your Wave address? - Brandon Titus

Did anyone get a chance to see Youtube HTML 5 Demo? - Stephen Pickering

Brandon: I don't have my own address. Someone gave me theirs so can't share. - Robert Scoble

Zuckerberg doesn't make money from other companies' search engines, so he's still limiting what data can go out. I see FB getting more open about what data they take in. - Bruce Lewis

Bruce: Wave is very geeky. I think the UI has a lot of FriendFeed's problems x10. We'll see how that first impression sticks. - Robert Scoble

And Wave will only be as good as how many users it has - Stephen Pickering

Where will I go? Probably no where. Friendfeed was the first time I really got to feel like I found a home. Other places don't interact and blend multiple social services like Friendfeed does/did. Just as plenty of other people have said, I'm waiting for Google Wave at this point. I'm already a Google whore, might as well wait for the Wave to come through. - Matthew Horton

Bruce: data that goes out can be embedded on blogs and websites and interact with things. Also, if you get into Google's search engine you can get a LOT of traffic, which then you can monetize on your own service. - Robert Scoble

Not necessarily nailing the coffin shut yet here. Going to hang around and see what develops....what seems likely at the moment may be a totally different thing tommorow :O) - Jack Wilson, K4SAC

I am leaving at midnight. 2 accounts will be deleted, mine and one I manage for another site. - April

Robert: Hope you enjoy Wave! The UI is definitely way off for content sharing (at least in my first impression) and more suited for group communication for the very scenarios they threw out in the demos. Get much beyond that, or have too many people and the system starts to break down. Obviously, the underlying Wave infrastructure could be used to create something similar to and better than Friendfeed. - Brandon Titus

Yeah, the cool thing about Wave is the problem they solved with the protocol. Not really their UI implementation. I think there are huge opportunities with both Open Social and the Wave protocol. - Chip Ramsey

OK, I have been out of touch and I guess I missed something. I see nothing wrong with staying with all the feeds I am tied to! - Dave Sickmeier

April, please don't delete your account. We lose interesting history when people do that. - Bruce Lewis

There is no Facebook and no FriendFeed, it is now called TwoFacedFriend... - Kelly Mitchell

Bill: I'll be around but probably a lot less. Actually I was thinking that this was good timing. We have a new baby due in September and my other son is just starting to learn to talk, so want to spend more time hanging around with the family. - Robert Scoble

I am gonna wait it out. If the community as a whole migrates I will go with them, but I don't want to overreact. - Neal "thePuck" Jansons

it's time to have another serious look at Plaxo. There are some very clever people there too, I believe?! - Matt Hooper

Truth is, being addicted to FriendFeed isn't a good lifestyle. - Robert Scoble

Well said Robert - Kelly Mitchell

April: why so sudden and why delete accounts? I don't get that. - Robert Scoble

depends what they do with the service - I like friendfeed and facebook so I think it will probably work okay for me - Nick Stone

Brandon: oh, oh. You said it "Wave doesn't scale." Not good. - Robert Scoble

FF also has good tools for using it in moderation -- best of day, week, which you can get by email. Lists help. - Bruce Lewis

I have been spending most of my time on Brightkite. It's a smaller community and more fun. A better alternative than twitter or facebook. - John Ferron

Robert, and yes when he does that (Money in Search), it will change the playing field in lateral ways across the Internet, especially in ePortfolios and other like applications that don't need to be walled gardens - Melanie Reed

Your right, Robert, but you would eventually learn to moderate your use, and a service like this is going to be needed - Stephen Pickering

so much DRAMA - Kevin Pruett

Kevin, the Drama is warranted - Stephen Pickering

Will there ever be an app that just leaves facebook out of the equation - we could only dream - Ryan Gerritsen

i'm leaving, watching from twitter would be a better option for me. - rama mamuaya

I am not likely to invest time in another community that I don't have a stake in. If I contribute it will be because I have a personal interest and am part of the team that runs the show. That is the only way I will feel comfortable investing my time & energy into it. - April

If we could get the other "Rock Stars" who are obviously having a "virtual prayer meeting" somewhere to get together and talk about what changes they wish to see and what they would like to see develop for social media, Twitter, Facebook, Friendfeed and now this Google Wave, we would probably all feel a little better as we might be able to see down the dark cold tunnel but they're out... more... - Jeunelle Foster

i think that I'll keep posting to friendfeed until it fully integrates with facebook - Carlos Leiva Burotto

Did you guys see Dave Winer's URL shortner, http://rp.ly? Genius. - Stephen Pickering

Jeunelle: Rizzn and Louis Gray and I did a podcast earlier where we talked through some of our feelings. It was very, um, theraputic. - Robert Scoble

hahaha I must of missed it, I'll dig it up. A bit quiet still though. Haven't heard peep from Chris Brogan and all them other STARS - Jeunelle Foster

Louis's blog post was classic. - Bruce Lewis

Man, I can understand Louis' feelings. Look how much he and Scoble have put into this - Stephen Pickering

I'll continue to use FF until there's reason not to. I'm patient enough to see what happens to it. What's the hurry? - Cathryn Hrudicka

I just started on Friendfeed. It can't go away! - Paul McElligott

Lets start FeedFriend - the Bizaro friendfeed minus Facebook integration - Ryan Gerritsen

Well, I was rather hoping for some sort of joint deal between Twitter & FF... I'm not sure if I'll stick around in FF or not. I'm definitely not a fan of Facebook - Tim Bergman

Paul, that's what so frustrating. Just given time, we know it would have caught on - Stephen Pickering

I'm staying... - Luis

Thanks for feeding the flames, there, Scoble. *WHAT* on earth is so scary about all this? - Brad McCrorey

Brad, FF has died. Scoble made this thing. And what does he get out of it? Nuttin - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: I got you all as friends. - Robert Scoble

:-) - Stephen Pickering

This really SUCKS because when you don't have great "developers" to put something together like FriendFeed, you're really just gonna have to either take it up the ass or commit suicide. I'll hang myself 1st with all my clothes on :) - Jeunelle Foster

Jeunelle HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH - Stephen Pickering

I'm wherever good, smart peeps are ('cuz I'm not smart enough). I don't invest much in tools - it's the people I care for. I'm not gonna abandon FF now but I understand that we'll need a way to foster the kind of community that got fostered here. Nothing lasts forever - and that's mostly a good thing in the long run. - phil baumann from Android

i'll be here until either the bitter end or something else comes along ... i'm really hoping that the ff-team will turn facebook into more of what it was before the apps came along... i think that's when FB really took a downward turn for me - Chris Heath

I follow the Cheese! - Rich Weaver

Venues like this will come and go, the whole social media landscape is in a constant state of flux I don't see why so many are up in arms. The life cycle of all the current venues are short and most of the leaders are nearing the end of their lives as we know it. But fear not, many new shiny toys will be bestowed upon us to play with. Now let's be social again! (ps. I'm sure we've seen NOTHING yet!) - Paul Monaco

Tweet: the cheese is in Zuckerberg's office! :-) - Robert Scoble

And for anyone that wants to know why I am deleting my account and not just moving away and leaving it to rot like i would normally do...just read the policies of facebook. Anywhere I have an account with data I don't want to be exploited commercially, in a way that exploits me personally, I'd delete it just as fast if the service were bought by facebook. - April

Zuckerberg is Master of the Universe. He spent 4 hours with Paul Friday. That would have an effect on anyone - Stephen Pickering

Kevin, when God, ie Mark Zuckerberg, says you can - Stephen Pickering

I love FF but I think this is a great move. If FB takes the best ideas from FF and they open it up theres is so much potential for a great community. - Gary Gannon

Definitely see what happens... Not looking forward to Facebook turning this into a free-for-all like Facebook :-) - Maria Reyes-McDavis

Gary a potential for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ - Stephen Pickering

Not going anywhere for the time being. I'm not a big Twitter fan, and unless FB makes some big time changes, it just doesn't do it for me. Will be listening for any other social media that might come round the bend. - Bonnie Foster

We are getting tired of all those constant platform changes, aren't we? - Harald Felgner

Harald Yes! - Stephen Pickering

I say we all leave Facebook instead. - Larry Roth

Herald and Stephen, Yes! More and different is not always better, just more and different. - Melanie Reed

I can't leave Facebook. I have too much built up there. And that won't do anything anways. It will just be a small blip to them. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood

so what content aggregator in the absence of FF? - WarLord

My apologies if this has already been asked, but Robert you are very close the FF team. You had no idea this was coming? - Ben Hanten

I'm not leaving. I like FriendFeed and Facebook. - Kimber Scott

Ben: not one iota. I did sense that they were struggling to figure out how to compete, but didn't think they would sell. Paul always told me he didn't want to sell. - Robert Scoble

WarLord: there isn't a good aggregator. That's why it's stupid to delete your feeds. - Robert Scoble

OK, a friend talked me down. He told me I'd be saying sorry for starting this post by the 400th comment. He's usually right. So, instead of saying sorry, I'm going drinking. See ya in the lobby in 10 minutes! - Robert Scoble

I may be dense about this, but why would you leave until you saw which way it was going? - Jerry Kidd

Good question, Jerry. I wanna know this, too. - Brad Williamson

Robert, I think he struggled with it, but 4 Hours with Mark is a big persuasion - Stephen Pickering

Matthew: I expect that the engineers will get put onto Facebook. So, if the smartest people are working on Facebook and not on FriendFeed, why would I stay here? Why wouldn't I start moving my work and social graph and all that over to Facebook? - Robert Scoble

The people I've come to know on FriendFeed are what I'd miss though, so I'd like to take my social graph with me wherever I might end up next. There's a business opportunity right there. - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Dunno if I'll leave the ship... - Wario

When I think about it - I found your post as well as the TechCrunch article via Google Friend Connect. So maybe it is time to join that Wave!? - Harald Felgner

Jerry: I said I was going to wait until I talk with the team more, but the things I'm hearing tell me they've already been bought to work on Facebook proper. So, unless someone tells me that's wrong, that tells me I should spend more and more of my time over on Facebook and not here. But my friend convinced me I'm being hasty and emotional. :-O - Robert Scoble

Mathew: Scoble said early on in this thread that he invests his time into emerging networks, not things that "are already here" I think thats why he will be moving on to the next big thing, like google wave or watchever new social network emerges out of this. I suspect that another startup will emerge to try and fill the shoes left behind by friendfeed. This is always the case. When napster left, you had morpheus and kazaa, then bit torrents. - BRҰANSAҰS

Matthew: FriendFeed=Facebook. It's a great day for both. Cause I'll end up at Facebook either way! :-) - Robert Scoble

Anyway, these are just the emotional ramblings of someone trying to figure out how the world shifted today. Have fun! - Robert Scoble

clue to the denouement: where is the most valuable processing of this event. Right here. - Steve Gillmor

I'm just curious what new startup will roll into the limelight because of this announcement? - BRҰANSAҰS

Robert, FriendFeed != Facebook - look at the quality of commentary/people here - Aaman (Clone of FF)

FriendFeed can stop improving right now, and I'll still stick around until something else catches up. Maybe that something else will be Facebook. I'll wait and see. - Bruce Lewis

I'm probably out. Back to open source for me at this point. Time to take another look and see how things have progressed with Laconica, JaikuEngine, NoseRub, and some of the other secondary options. I may also go crawling back to Twitter. Given a choice between Twitter and Facebook... sigh... - Ken Sheppardson

++Steve Gillmor - Bruce Lewis

Ken you'll be back. - Steve Gillmor

I don't think FB will change it all so quickly. But I do like Laconica, too. - Monique Hodgkinson

Steve you're making it hurt worse! ;-( - Stephen Pickering

Monique: It's not about rapid change, it's about where to invest effort. I don't really have any interest in investing my time and energy on Facebook... so why wait? - Ken Sheppardson

stephen how so - Steve Gillmor

I don't know where to go :( - K.D.

I'll make up my mind when I figure out what better alternative there is to Friend Feed. - Anthony Teegarden

Because we know FF has died - Stephen Pickering

Steve: Yeah, you're probably right. I appreciate the work Bret, Paul, Benjamin, et al have done, and I was really looking forward to where they were taking things... before they were taking it to Facebook. - Ken Sheppardson

Stephen: FF has died? Well, then, how am I typing to you? - Robert Scoble

Tomy, why change? You can listen to the Beatles and the Stones! - Stephen Pickering

Ken: it's all good. they're moving to a radically larger playground, and they can't afford to abandon those who appreciate them - Steve Gillmor

They will keep FF just will make it better - Johni Fisher

Choose I meant - Stephen Pickering

Please stop with FF has died chatter! - BRҰANSAҰS

I'll wait to learn more before making any decisions - Herb Hernandez

Robert, well, metaphorically. Whether its a few months or a year - Stephen Pickering

Tomy: Twitter is like Facebook but without likes and comments. Oh, wait, Facebook is a lot like FriendFeed already. I just commented on Louis Gray's item there. Oh, and there's applications. We can play games! :-) Herb: I'll try to go see the team next week. I'm also interviewing Yelp. - Robert Scoble

But Steve, what if the larger "playground" turns out to be very different from the one pitched to them? What if the FF team finds that their vision isn't shared after all? - Bruce Lewis

Robert, ok maybe you are right. Maybe it will be like the R&D. That would be great! - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: are you trying to get on the Gillmor Gang? We seem to kill things before they are really dead there too. - Robert Scoble

Hey Robert , you make friendfeed slower ! I guess you should leave here really x) - Melissa Taylor

Anyway, I'm going drinking. For real this time. - Robert Scoble

Robert, HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHA - Stephen Pickering

they can go build it again. but zuckerberg has been wanting this for some time - Steve Gillmor

need to wait what will happen to FF - Toni @ NavinoT

I'm planning on easing out of Friendfeed in the next couple of days, so I can get the contacts of people I know on here and who's opinions I value. - Jonathan Hardesty

Pickering: RSS is dead, not FF - Steve Gillmor

Steve, oh yes, If I were him, I would pull out all stops to get this team. I totally understand from a business perspective, all perspectives - Stephen Pickering

business is design - Steve Gillmor

HAHAHA great comeback Steve. On that note I think I'll have a beer. :) - BRҰANSAҰS

Steve, OK, I'll keep the faith that maybe Scoble's idea that this could be a Facebook R&D could happen. That would be great!!!! - Stephen Pickering

Steve, did you see the post about this being an opportunity for Google Reader? I think it was by Jorge Escobar. - Bruce Lewis

Reading through all this is hilarious. We really should have a social media reality show Robert - Jeunelle Foster

no bruce, how so - Steve Gillmor

Jeunelle, Robert went drinking :) - Stephen Pickering

So he ain't all that. Just kidding hehehehe :) - Jeunelle Foster

He was saying Reader has most of the features of FF, and this could be their chance to expand and fill the niche FF filled: http://friendfeed.com/social-... - Bruce Lewis

disagree bruce GR has no explicit contract with users - Steve Gillmor

Contract or contact? - BRҰANSAҰS

Wave might be boosted, but has similar immaturity at the social graph level - Steve Gillmor

I don't understand the part about the contract. - Bruce Lewis

If Ning is 750m why FF is just 50m ? - Johni Fisher

users consciously contribute metadata to FF - Steve Gillmor

Do we want Google to buy Twitter? - Stephen Pickering

@Steve @Bruce, here's the post http://jungleg.com/2009... -- it's a crazy idea but GR could make an extra effort and put up a better web experience - Jorge Escobar

I like FriendFeed, a lot, but too few of my friends use the service to make it really useful. So I guess I'll leave. - Adam Washington

Adam, stay, if even only for the aggregating features - Stephen Pickering

You are testing us Scoble. - Özer (Wrzl) Dölekoğlu

YES he's sitting in the back laughing while drinking Peppermint Schnaps - Jeunelle Foster

Scobles outta here. He went to get a life! hehehehehehehe - Stephen Pickering

totally staying....this really is just the beginning....and, i just built FF into all of my Intro to Soc sections!!!! - Chad Gesser

I thought you said you'd hand in there until they turn the last server off. What changed your mind? - Paul Chaney

Speaking of Google. What was the point of them buying Jaiku and doing nothing with it? - BRҰANSAҰS

I'll at least stay for aggregation and extending 140 character tweets, and pray maybe it will become Facebooks R&D, but I know that's a longshot - Stephen Pickering

I should get a life too but alas the temptation is too great for "attention whoring" - Jeunelle Foster

Jeunelle HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH - Stephen Pickering

hehehe lol - Jeunelle Foster

Regarding the "team's plans", I really don't expect to hear anything from Bret, Paul, et al. At this point I'm happy to let the Facebook (i.e. the non-FriendFeed) folks try to convince me that they're ready to do things differently. That involves more than just hiring a team. - Ken Sheppardson

Well, maybe Paul can influence Mark not "to be evil" - Stephen Pickering

those who think FB has any choice but to go down the FF road are not thinking this through - Steve Gillmor

Steve, Oh, I totally understand. It was genius of them. Proves how Mark is indeed Master of the Universe - Stephen Pickering

Steve, self-interest does not guarantee anything. People and companies can act irrationally. - Bruce Lewis

So Steve, do you see two separate properties indefinitely? Or does Facebook just slowly start too look more FF-like, then one day they redirect friendfeed.com to facebook.com? - Ken Sheppardson

yes bruce take twitter for example - Steve Gillmor

But Paul could end up being a great influence on Mark - Stephen Pickering

not indefinitely Ken, but long enough to transfer enough value to avoid making twitter look like the good guys - Steve Gillmor

Steve, will Google buy Twitter? - Stephen Pickering

you're "VERY excited" about the deal, but plan to leave friendfeed? why, exactly? i don't get it... - Shawn C. Reed

dunno, don't really care - Steve Gillmor

ff was the important value, not twitter - Steve Gillmor

Oh sure, who do you want in your office, Ev or Paul Bucheit? Paulllllll! - Stephen Pickering

Stephen, didn't the TechCrunch article say that the FF team would be split between two bosses, neither of which was Mark? - Bruce Lewis

matthew who says they didn't - Steve Gillmor

That's right. Paul may end up running that thing, or at least be No.2 - Stephen Pickering

ff has been running dev for a year - Steve Gillmor

Wow - isn't this jumping to conclusions? No one has said anything's going away, nor do we know what they're doing to do with it. Stick around, wait to see what happens, then jump. Nothing's happened yet - I think it will all be for the better in the end and you'll know where to go when the FF Team says Jump. - Jesse Stay

Kurt, he's gonna sit on it for a while, see what shakes out - Stephen Pickering

jesse skip to the bottom for the apology - Steve Gillmor

The FF Team hasn't let us down yet, have they? I still trust them - only when they break that trust do we jump. - Jesse Stay

@Scobleizer I've been on Google Wave for about a week working on an interesting idea I have for it. It's very promising but its very alpha right now. You won't find it worth your time just yet. - Noah White

jumping is bullshit, no place to go - Steve Gillmor

Ah - sorry Robert - didn't see the clarification towards the bottom. Thanks Steve. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, you still in the Boston area? - Bruce Lewis

Why rush to judgment? Even if the "team's plans" are off-base, what's the base? And what's off? Experience, resourcefulness, respect for users and smarts under fire all matter more than "plans." Wait & keep seeing. - Doc

What the hell? Just because someone buys FriendFeed everyone has to ditch it? ABORT SHIP, ABORT SHIP! Doesn't really make sense so soon. Has anything changed yet? Is it the end of the world? Don't just leave because everyone says they will either. Stick around, the ship is still afloat. - Nick Humphries

the doctor is in the house - Steve Gillmor

But, if they did pull the plug, with bandwidth and computing halving every year, there would be another one of these pop up in no time - Stephen Pickering

I don't see a point in leaving Friendfeed until the doors close on us... if and when that happens. - Alex Knight

Actually facebook is the most popular rss reader of all time :) - Christian Burns from iPhone

Bruce, we just left today. I'm actually in Niagara Falls, NY right now. Just finished watching a beautiful view of the Falls at night. - Jesse Stay

There's a house? - Doc

Steve, is that Doc Searls? - Stephen Pickering

of cards - Steve Gillmor

hover over the name stephen - Steve Gillmor

Jesse, if anybody can persuade me (us?) that Facebook is going to be good for the FF team it's you. Maybe write a blog post or something. - Bruce Lewis

Don't get so close. - Doc

unfollow please sidney - Steve Gillmor

Doc, Calacanis recommended your book to his audience on THis Week in Startups. Can't wait to read it! - Stephen Pickering

I just left facebook a couple weeks ago - hope friendfeed doesn't devolve into quizzes and walled gardens - Doug Holton

It's the Gillmor Gang in a perpendicular universe. - Doc

yes it is - Steve Gillmor

and about fucking time - Steve Gillmor

Stephen, make sure it's the *new* 10th anniversary edition of Cluetrain. Both it and the old one are being sold. 8 extra chapters in the new. - Doc

No doubt, Steve - Christian Burns from iPhone

Because of Quantum Wave effects there are an infinite number of Universes, some of which The Gillmor Gang is still broadcasting - Stephen Pickering

Bruce, I'll be working on a post really soon. Also, Louis Gray and I are going to record a phone call about it tomorrow, which I think should prove useful. I've got a lot of knowledge about Facebook, and he does about FriendFeed. - Jesse Stay

we never stopped stephen - Steve Gillmor

Heheheheheheheheh - Stephen Pickering

JFC, I was gonna go to bed, and here we are. Wherever this is. Do we all really live in Scoble's butt? - Doc

Doc comes through with yet another metonym: the perpendicular universe (= FF). - Nick in Manila

I would have had something out sooner but I've been driving a car all day. :-) - Jesse Stay

no it's Marshall McLuhan's butt - Steve Gillmor

Is this SRC? - Doc

Kurt, oh yeah, I totally get that and so does Scoble, but you've got to understand his short term hurt. Look at how much energy he put into this thing, and what did he get? Nuttin - Stephen Pickering

You mean McLuhan is in Scoble's body? He's in the movie Being Robert Scoble? - Doc

Nonsense Stephen he gets paid in attention every single time - Steve Gillmor

Social relay chat? - Christian Burns from iPhone

No who's on first - Steve Gillmor

Scoble Relay Chat. - Doc

the medium is the message - Steve Gillmor

OK, OK, Steve. I admit, I listened to Dave Winer's chat this evening about it - Stephen Pickering

yeah I read the liner notes instead - Steve Gillmor

Confessions of Stephen and Steve - Jeunelle Foster

And the medium is the network? - Stephen Pickering

Are we paying Scoble now? Are we his excreta and are those a form of currency? - Doc

as richard manuel used to say the check's in yr mouth - Steve Gillmor

Doc, HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - Stephen Pickering

I thought it was "the check is coming in your mouth." Just looking for accuracy here. - Doc

no, doc it's a contraction of 2 of the 3 promises - Steve Gillmor

I forget what the 3rd is - Steve Gillmor

I'll love you in the morning? - Doc

could be - Steve Gillmor

Well, it's almost morning here. I'll tape this show and watch later. G'night or g'morning, all. - Doc

Goodnight, Doc! - Stephen Pickering

Part of beauty of FF: all their shows are taped. And yet open ended. - Nick in Manila

It depends how much FF changes. No reason to leave until and unless it gets annoying. - Igor Goldkind

It's "I'll respect you in the morning." - Sean Gallagher

Oh, I'm not leaving. Hell, I even still have a myspace account. It's just a question of engagement - Stephen Pickering

Good night all. Tip for Jeunelle: You get more attention if you make your feed public. Make a group for your private stuff. - Bruce Lewis

they'll have to scrub this one pretty good before they shut it down - Steve Gillmor

Maybe Jeunelle doesn't want attention. - Sean Gallagher

Hell, they keep Orkut going. Storage and bandwidth keep getting cheaper. Might as well keep this going - Stephen Pickering

Orkut! The favorite social network of 9 out of 10 Brazilians. - Sean Gallagher

And 9 out 10 of the best looking women! - Stephen Pickering

True. - Sean Gallagher

@scobleizer that means half of the total activity on friendfeed will be reduced - Sidharth Dassani

Maybe if Facebook hadn't stolen all Scoble's data, he'd stop worrying and learn to love them. - Sean Gallagher

Actually even os Brasileiros are coming over to FB - Stephen Pickering

My mother is on Facebook. The end is nigh. - Sean Gallagher

"Maybe Jeunelle doesn't want attention" - says who? I only stepped away to pour me a nice glass of Sauvengion Blanc", and thank you Bruce for the advice I'll look into that tomorrow. After all tomorrow is another day. Twiddly Dee - Jeunelle Foster

there is no reason to leave. I seriously doubt facebook will kill it. - Logan Lindquist

What's the record number of comments? - Stephen Pickering

Logan, I hope your right - Stephen Pickering

Maybe if I blog my twitter of Scoble's FriendFeed and then link it from Facebook via a Digg of a del.icio.us bookmark, it will create a singularity and this thread will have never happened. - Sean Gallagher

Sean, you may even create a time machine! - Stephen Pickering

Can someone comment on what April Russo said about Facebook content policy? Seems like a very important piece of the puzzle. - metalerik

I wouldn't worry about it. The markets will take care of it. If Facebook becomes evil, the masses will fork somewhere else. We're in the age of Openness - Stephen Pickering

I will only leave friend feed if it becomes a facebook clone. I can't stand facebook but I still use it cause my friends and family use it, but if friendfeed becomes annoying like face book then I see no point in staying here. - Colide81 (James) from iPhone

James, Touche - Stephen Pickering

You know Sean maybe smarter than he looks....hmmmmm :) and what's with that bird head? - Jeunelle Foster

It's a starling fledgeling. The perfect symbol for social networking-- it eats whatever you give it, then poops on you. - Sean Gallagher

That's what I want to reincarnate as....an angry poopin bird - Jeunelle Foster

Just reading all the news about FF and FB. Disapoints me personally, biz wise nice job. Um not a huge FB user so I don't know what my plans are yet. Like you wait a bit and see.... - Bryan Thatcher from iPhone

I won't leave FF until they make me or there's no community left. Whichever comes first. - FFing Enigma

We'll never get to talk to Robert Scoble again. :-( - Jannifer @wordsforliving

on to Google Wave. - Jason Wilson from BuddyFeed

Jannifer, Yes we will on his JS-Kit Echo commenting system he will put on his blog. It's real time like this - Stephen Pickering

I'm leaving. Google Wave, Twitter, Reader will plenty suffice now. Farewell, former friend. - Californian

Oh Stephen - I'm not sure what that is... but it won't be like Friendfeed. :-( - Jannifer @wordsforliving

At some point I imagine I will. I have no interest in joining facebook. When I do depends on what facebook does with ff. - Quasar

I'm sticking around till FB screws it up. But I was keeping FF separate from FB because most of my FB friends are my born-again Christian relatives who won't like the controversial stuff of mine that makes it onto FF's news feed. Still, I'm going to look for other similar sites. Posterous is one. - Dennis Jernberg

I really want a Google Wave invite now.. - Peter

I'm not leaving but I'm not moving to Facebook. The main thing for me is to keep the contacts I've gained from FriendFeed and hope we all can meet on another similar service somewhere somehow. - Kol Tregaskes

Ditto what Kol just said. - Tinfoil 2.0

ditto on the Google wave invite - Kim

you hit the nail on the head there Kol - Kim

Maybe. But i really want Google Wave invite. - ★ Soner Gönül

It's hard to say at this point. The only thing that's changed is who pays the server bill. Ask me in a week. And yes, a Google Wave invite would sure go a long way to make this better for me. - Dale

Joined Posterous. http://jbug.posterous.com Wouldn't mind a Google Wave invite, though... - Dennis Jernberg

Me too, Dennis. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

I will wait and see. - Matt G

Leaving a favorite site isn't always a conscious decision for me. The cool site loses its cool and you just kind of drift off. - Dale from email

Oh yeah, and I added my Posterous blog to my FriendFeed feed, so you'll be seeing whatever I post there in your home feed here. That is, if you subscribe to me here, or if one of your subscribers likes or comments. Me, leave? Not yet! ;) - Dennis Jernberg

I'll be sticking around just a little while longer. - April

I'm here for the duration - Charlie Anzman

I'm loyal until they make it worth me leaving. - Jesse Stay

I'm here until they slam the gates shut. But I am hiding all your BS posts about it being a good thing :) - JCunwired

If you want to be sure that I quit Friendfeed you have to see my burial. I will never quit while being alive! :-) - Nicolai Butzki

I'm staying but it's like when you know that the company you work for has been bought by someone else and might close it, you lose motivation and start looking for another job, it's hard to invest time and energy if there might be no future. Not that the future of FF was guaranteed before but now it does not look good at all. - M F

I'm heading to Plurk! who's with me? *tumbleweed* - Iain Baker

Like I said before, I'm staying here until the end. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood

Friendfeed is two totally different things: the original RSS aggregation service, and a social network service/community. Lifestream.fm is a reasonable replacement for the former. As to the latter, it's the people, not the tech they're using, that makes FF special. I've benefited greatly as a 'consumer' here, reading posts - if that continues on Facebook, it will probably get me to... more... - SteamCentral

i'll be around until it becomes unbearable, probly until it's been damaged badly by FB style feature creep and riddled with ads and spammers. oh, and absolutely stupid censorship policies. that'll be a real killer. - Joe The Sausage

not leaving. NEVER hoho I haven't left FB nor friendser. - Friendfeed's Francisco

The CloneFeed group has given me some interest. It gives some hope in case FF really goes away or merges badly with FB. I like FB but just don't want to fully mix the two activities/audiences. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Go to posterous. Here is mine: http://pingmicro.com/ - Svartling from iPhone

I'd rather keep my Friendfeed as my "professional aggregation" and Facebook as personal stuff. I blog, tweet, etc. stuff that a lot of my friends could care less about. And I post stuff to Facebook that isn't interesting or relevant to clients / followers. - Gregg Le Blanc

Google Wave is what I am looking for. The problem with moving to Facebook is that I use it for close friends and family so things like comments and pics etc that I post to it I would not want to have available to all of the contacts I have on FF at the moment. Mainly because I like to separate those I know from those that I converse with if that makes sense. I loved that on FF I could... more... - travispuk

Whilst I am not 'leaving' FF, I will not be investing anywhere near the type of interaction I have done previous to yesterday's announcement as I just see it as wasted time. - travispuk

I have to wait & see what, I don't want to lose the community; where do I go? This feels like Pownce all over! - clarke thomas

What becomes of the broken hearted? - Joe Dawson

I'm staying on! - Charles Lau

FF is my first big social networking investment (or time) - I'll stay and then move, if forced. I'll certainly investigate other tools in an effort to fill any gap left by FaceFeed. - Jason Miller

I just saw that a woman's twittering her childbirth made the front page of BBC's world news webpage. I don't know to make of it, but I don't want to hang out at Twitter much anymore. - Mitch

Mitch: we Twittered our childbirth in 2007 and we will again in September, but probably not on our main account. - Robert Scoble

i think i'm stayin, and wait what's goin on facebook. i will feel upset if they dont allow the users to make their choice of using one or other site, but looks like they gonna force to use FB instead of FF :( - Dani Martínez

Not sure how on board with FriendFeed I ever was to begin with to be honest... - Gurpreet

FriendFeed will be fine - FaceBook is fine - and so is Twitter - I might check out AmpliFeeder, I suspect quite a few FriendFeeders will migrate there as the days go by. - Chris Loft

Not leaving FF but I can't wait till it's properly integrated with Facebook. Interesting thing: Wave's API is open so there's nothing to stop Facebook creating an app to make Facebook & Wave work great together. Not so much either/or as and... and..! - Matt Moran

Has anyone tried amplifeeder? edit: so far don't see any friending abilities though - metalerik

Why leave? But will be open to see other options - facebook doesn't (currently) provide to me what I get here. - amygeek

Facebook bought friendfeed http://adage.com/digital... - Rob Johnson

I stay on FriendFeed, on Twitter, on Facebook, etc. - Emmanuel Gadenne

I won't delete my account, but as FF morphs into the ball of confusion that is Facebook, I won't be very active. - Jeremy Brooks

I will. No point sticking around when you know it is going to die sooner or later. With twitter you still have the hope.... - Davide D'Incau

I'll leave Facebook if FF gets harmed. And go back to Identi.ca... ;-) - Torrid Luna

I'll stay on FF, FB and T, and BK, and other, BrightKite is not well utilised, is good even on beta. - Andy Ghozali

Robert: If you're looking for an awesome real-time discussion platform, you should migrate to Fluther. http://www.fluther.com - Ben

I'm staying put and watching the ship sink. I'd really like to believe that FriendFeed will have some longevity, but I won't hedge my bets. - Tyson Key

Steve Gillmor said "clue to the denouement: where is the most valuable processing of this event. Right here." so for now, FF looks like the space. - Barbara K. Iverson

I intend to stick around to see what Facebook have planned. I think the takeover has everything to do with the direction FB's been heading in lately, what with their open challenge to Twitter - Dennis Jernberg

I don't see it as leaving, but rather seeing the possibility that it might leave us. FF was and still is just about my favorite site and uberaggregatorthing that I ever saw.... - Rob Schieber

+100 Rob Schieber - Tyson Key

I will stay. Facebook will not Win. - TheHenry

Nope... I'll stay, even if I ride it to a bitter end. - Mark J

depends. if they stay seperate services, i wont like the acquisition,but i'll stay. if they become 1 service, i'm out. and where is every1 going from friend feed anyhow. what else is there? - echostreamer

Will wait and see what happens with FB - Ted Kinzer

fb ruins everything. Have the Privacy policy "not "changed since fb came into the pic? Can they not build their own ideas instead of buying everyone else's? leave us geeks to play in our playground and stay in yours. greedy buggers. The second they pull a skanky fb move i'm out. bitches. - seastarerrin

I'm here till the ship goes down. - Lee Watters

Leaving no. Checking out other venues yes. - Martha

Just maybe Facebook will listen to the Friendfeed engineers in charge of user interface/usability starting with the type size and fonts. Not all marriages are made in heaven. Culture clashes are sure to pop up. - Alan Morris

I am leaving Web - Back to Telnet - Dominique Rabeuf

Dominique, too late. The web already assimilated it with the telnet: url schema. - Bruce Lewis

OK so only snmp/ssh - Dominique Rabeuf

Hell no, not leaving. Best service on the web. - Christopher Galtenberg from iPhone

gonna ride this one out to shore. - Sean Oliver

keep using FriendFeed till they pull the plug. Leaving the service will make it more likely that it will go away. - Cass from IM

hu? - Dries Grobler Jr

back to blogs :-) - Mostafa Lameei

I was about to focus a little more on FF but since I heard about the purchase and read rumors about FF being integrated in FB and being shutdown and all this, I'm getting a little ... well.. undecided.. Just checked Streamy, didn't like it. If a.tinythread.com get's more development, this might be the next thing to migrate to. I'm sure not moving to FaceBook. I have my account, I have... more... - Daniel van Moll

Minitel 3815 (?) - Dominique Rabeuf

Not interested in being part of Facebook. Goodbye, FriendFeed. :-( - TranceMist

I wish more folks would see the big picture. We need to focus on independent projects that are NOT part of the Google-Yahoo-Microsoft borg. As soon as a site gets absorbed it is time to find another independent site. Yes, I do realize that some may have actually been part all along and only pretending they were independent in the first place - especially if they were founded by... more... - Internet Strategist

This post was in response to facebook's purchase of friendfeed... Robert is asking who is leaving because of the purcahse - Chris Heath

not because of the facebook purchase... he left a month ago or so... he comes back from time to time ... mostly because we're talking about him - Chris Heath

Robert Scoble

Why FriendFeed's designer, Kevin Fox, is to blame for FriendFeed being too difficult to use: he f**ks with affordances. (UPDATE: he answers me toward the end of the comments with a GREAT set of answers).

August 9, 2009 - Comments disabled - Like - Share

innit4theminute, Jimminy, CoG of FF, 29travels and 129 other people liked this

Affordances. They are important. What does that mean? A door knob "affords" being turned. It almost demands it. Yet FriendFeed is screwing with things like links. Here, click on "hide." That should just hide one item, right? That's the affordance. Yet you'll soon find there's a whole world stuck under that little link. You can hide Tweets. You can hide me. You can hide all sorts of stuff. - Robert Scoble

316 more comments

Is it difficult to use? - Manuel Mas

Hmm.. is it difficult to use?! - Orli Yakuel

It's a peace of cake - Mark

i heard larry wall once say about perl "make simple things simple, and hard things possible"... the simple things are definitely *not* simple in ff, increasing the learning curve right at the start... i rekon if they fix that... they have it made! :) - simran

Ooooo. One does not often see Robert swear. He's really worked up about it. Care to respond Kevin?? - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

#2 Look at the time stamp. Did you know that's also a link? Where's the affordance? Not there. Yet did you know you can click that and that is your permalink? Many people have trouble figuring this out. But here's an ultra affordance killer. Did you know you can click it twice and get a popout menu? Not many people do. Kevin has overloaded links with too many features and he has broken the affordances of what links usually do. - Robert Scoble

Orli: actually, yes, it's difficult to use. - Robert Scoble

Scoble: You may be right now that I read what you had to say. I don't think there is a proper FAQ/guide for all the little details hidden in FF. - Manuel Mas

And noses were designed to support eye glasses. - Todd Hoff

well I just managed to wipe out my entire friend feed account when I was trying to add a new one for a different twitter account - NW Angel

I agree - too many possible results from a given action. Manuel, no one reads FAQs and if you need to, the app is DOA - Sameer

Well, I don't see it as difficult to use. Its more that there are many things in here hidden that would aid users if there were more upfront. - Manuel Mas

Most of us get basic functionality out of the site with how things are at the moment. - Manuel Mas

Sameer: Agree. - Manuel Mas

Look at this complaint too about FriendFeed being difficult to figure out: http://twitter.com/sethgol... Seth Goldstein runs a tech company. He's a geek. Adverse to more pain than a lot of us. Yet he can't figure out how to delete a list. He's not the only one to tell me that FriendFeed is too difficult to figure out. FriendFeed still needs a design rethink to make these issues go away. - Robert Scoble

Valid points, Robert, but a complex interface, once learned, becomes simple, too - although that's not the best design philosophy for a massively public website. - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Its the visual impact of seeing too many options even if you dont use them. V. overwhelming for the try and buy new comer - Sameer

I think it is one of the worst UIs on the web today. Which is why I hardly use it. It violates all the rules of good design. Stuff is not obvious, it is not easy and it is not even quickly learn-able. I've spent years in product management and really, this is one of the worst. - Shripriya

I think the issue here is Discoverability. There are a lot of little hidden secrets to FriendFeed that become obvious only after you've figured them out. They're not very obvious on their own. Personally, it doesn't bother me but that's because I know it. If I were a new user, I'd be at a loss as well. It seems to me that the primary design goal at FriendFeed is a minimal UI (perhaps at all costs). - Akiva

Roberto: I can't think of another web app that messes with link affordances the way that FriendFeed does. Can you think of one? - Robert Scoble

People who figure out how to use a system are often the last ones to recognize how difficult it is to use. It's a self selection thing. - Ken Sheppardson

But affordances are subjective and reliant on the end-user. Take the @ sign or hashtags for instance. Unless you're talking about Apple, it's hard to blame a designer for affordance rule enforcement. - Sam Harrelson

There is a balance with "affordances" though -- if you have a very complex set of features you could have a knob/button/link for every feature but that would not work either - Brian Sullivan

@Robert, do you think FF need More Icon? - abdellah

Sam: we've all clicked on hundreds of thousands of links. We all have an idea of what happens when you click a link. - Robert Scoble

Sam, the @sign in Twitter was emergent - something users created. - Sameer

Sure, but I've seen lots of platforms use the date function as a permalink enabler. - Sam Harrelson

Manuel, agree. Robert, I wouldn't say it's difficult, but confusing (or useless sometimes). I'm not sure it's a design problem though. - Orli Yakuel

abellah: an icon is probably better than a link, yes. I know that Kevin (from an interview I did with him more than a year ago) likes sparse UIs. He is of the school that you just watch where people trip over themselves and then build UI for that. I think that's smart, but I wish that FriendFeed would iterate its UI faster to pave paths where people are having troubles. - Robert Scoble

Robert, sorry, but you're late on this trend too :) First, being not to follow everyone on Twitter. FF ui has always been terrible. Most tech people I know don't understand how to use it. And I think I use less than 10% of the available features. - Shripriya

I like FriendFeed as it is. It's obviously a power users tool as is, but then I wouldn't want it stupid simple reminiscent of installing a Windows OS. There just needs to be a decent screencast on the home page explaining all the features. No one reads FAQs these days. Video Game designers just turn the first level into a tutorial for 99% who won't read the manual and I don't mind. Maybe FF needs a tutorial when you first sign up? - CannonGod

Think about the affordances of FF and compare them with Twitter. Then compare the relative effectiveness of desktop / mobile applications developed for both. There is not a one good app for FriendFeed. This is because of the MANY "extra shite" links and an overly complex API, not because of popularity differences in the services. - Michael Owens from iPhone

Holy shit this item is already in Google: http://www.google.com/search... -- Google is going real time! - Robert Scoble

Great designs shouldn't need tutorials. - Manuel Mas

@Sameer right, but we created the @ sign to do a certain feature. Folks on identi.ca have their own signifiers. That will inevitably happen here as well as folks grow comfortable with this platform. - Sam Harrelson

Shripriya - I think most people who come back dont find it confusion. Its the first timers that run away - and thats FFs biggest problem. - Sameer

Needless to say, we all love Friendfeed, but we also need a Greasemonkey script to learn which service was posting into the time-line, and the entire issue of groups/rooms really needs a rethink because it's so hard to find any, especially If you're a newcomer.. - Nir Ben Yona

Engagement is deep; Adoption is sparce. - Sameer

TV ads (at least in australia) are considered misleading if "a person of slightly less than average intelligence" misinterprets them... i think you will find that it takes "smart techies" a while to figure out the nuances of ff, not saying everything should be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, but the defaults that way would give everyone a great start... especially when introducing innovative stuff (like "the live web") :) - simran

Scoble: That Google real time thing is even more impressive than this discussion! - Manuel Mas

Shripriya: I've been complaining about this stuff both in public and in private for a long time. And I wasn't behind in following everyone on Twitter. Come and study how I use FriendFeed to follow small groups of people closely, especially for Twitter. - Robert Scoble

Manuel - Yes. I like to say that if you need to write a manual for your product, it's too complicated. - Jeff Harbert

Wow, this did get into Google fast. - phil baumann

Robert: Holy shit, that's impressive - http://www.google.com/search... - sod Twitter I say, if you're in marketing then you need to get on FriendFeed for instant Google indexing of a subject! - CannonGod

@Manuel there will be always a need to manual and tutorial, people have to sell or to promote so event if you have to explain a basic evidence, write a document make it in pdf format, sell it or share it, but for the sake of simplicity please never ever do FB style document. - abdellah

UI design is a very difficult thing to do because so many people have different ways they use things. However, I do agree with you Robert that FF does need a redesign to make more of the feature more user-intuitive. - Jack Wilson, K4SAC

Sameer - I've been back many times, I still barely use it. All the stuff Robert mentions, I had no clue. And its not worth my the time investment. - Shripriya

i would expect to see the tweet before this one.. http://www.google.com/search... - Orli Yakuel

Robert - the twitter thing (ie. unsubscribing and not following everyone) was a bit of a joke. But on FF, you are the biggest proponent. If you can't get them to change, no one can. - Shripriya

Phil: THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT GOOGLE REAL-TIME INDEXING! XD - CannonGod

Agree Sam, but Twitter nor identi.ca expose a gazillion features in the core app.. Its about managing the "first impression is the lasting impression" thing - Sameer

Here's the interview I did with Kevin last year: http://qik.com/video/73962 Shripriya: yeah, I keep hearing that from other people I try to evangelize FriendFeed to. One guy, who is a tech advisor to celebrities in Hollywood told me they will never use it because it's too hard to figure out and because there aren't good mobile clients for it, like there are for Twitter. - Robert Scoble

Jake - :) - phil baumann

@Sameer That's true for a certain demographic, but I look at sites my 8th graders frequent often and I have no idea how they put up with the features. Or take an xBox 360 controller... lots of buttons that do way too many things for my old 30 year-old mind, but my students find it intuitive. - Sam Harrelson

http://scobleizer.com/2008... - 18 months ago you said their UI was brilliant :) - Mark

Shripriya- thats ok. Plenty of people I personally know that have signed up for Twitter and never come back because they couldn't find a use case. No app is for everyone. Its about appealing to a large number of folks that see relevance. - Sameer

Wow, not only is this indexed in Google, but the Likes are getting indexed as well. Don't see the comments indexed yet, tho. - Sam Harrelson

Maybe FF will always be the power aggregation tool online that only a few use. But is the "few" large enough? I wonder. - Shripriya

47 emails in my gmail inbox already from this thread (as i commented and said follow updates on twitter)... surely they can batch them at least by the minute... after all... email isn't realtime :) - simran

Search results for "I don't get FriendFeed" - http://friendfeed.com/search... - phil baumann

Mark: you took me out of context. I said it both sucks AND is brilliant. That is true. Even today. - Robert Scoble

@Robert, can I add that UI is so clean that functionality are just a part of the design, they need to make more light on them (hey they are all blue link the same sized blue link) :) - abdellah

The missing mobile client certainly is a downer. I love a lot about FriendFeed, but lack of a *good* mobile client, and other minor annoyances may keep me from staying here. Sure I know I will come back from time to time (and I haven't left yet), but not sure I can live here on a daily basis like I can with Twitter because of the great clients for my desktop and phone, like TweetDeck. - Timothy Federwitz

Sam, the feature laden apps you mention that your students use, have intent built in them. The purpose is known before you came. XBox = don't do homework. Hell, Id learn how to use very button too :) - Sameer

I think FF is a different beast altogether and not as easy to create a mobile app for, based solely on service functionality and what we actually do here. - Manuel Mas

Tim: that's why I like the IM integration wtih GTalk. Gets around the site UI and works great on the mobile as well. - Sam Harrelson from IM

Scoble: I think this was a pretty rude way of giving your feedback. Why are you being so provocative lately? - Eric Florenzano from iPhone

difficult for who? the basics are easy....getting the most out of all the tools available is a different story but at least the tools are there. Not so in twitter - Craig Shipp

Sameer: Yep, good point. Similarly, I see FriendFeed having a very useful apparatus in my work/personal flow as a news/twitter/info client. I mostly use it via IM but also find the site pretty intuitive for how I use it and prefer it over Twitter, etc. - Sam Harrelson from IM

Eric: because no one engages unless you make a strong point and I sure wish Kevin would fix this stuff so I can evangelize FriendFeed better. - Robert Scoble

Craig: I have shown FriendFeed to many hundreds of people over the past year and I keep getting this complaint over and over. - Robert Scoble

I disagree with that approach Robert. A strong point is not always necessary. Most times it's a turn off and sets the wrong tone. Sure you get a lively discussion, but half of it is trying to explain you're not reallllly upset about it. - Bwana ☠

It's fine to complain but I don't see any useful suggestions here from Robert or any other commenters. A problem without a proposed solution is essentially a whine. - Brian Sullivan

Bwana: we've been complaining about these issues for more than a year. And I am upset about it. It keeps me from having a good time evangelizing FriendFeed. Just search here for how many people don't get FriendFeed. And those are the ones who'll tell you in public. - Robert Scoble

Just reading this, I have learned 4 things I DID NOT KNOW about friendfeed functionality. - Liza + = ?

Back again, to say FF still isn't cool! - K.N. Ajit Narayan

Robert: I couldn't disagree more. Please don't fall into that Arrington/Loren Feldman trap. People engage in a more constructive way when the topic is interesting. Just look at Leo's shows for proof that I'm right. - Eric Florenzano from iPhone

I didn't say this wasn't a case for a strong point, I'm simply stating it's not always necessary per your statement "no one engages unless you make a strong point" - Bwana ☠

Liza: that's another reason I did it in a strong way. I knew it would get engagement. WHen you get engagement your item gets spread to more and more people and that helps out the community overall. - Robert Scoble

Timestamp? Click, double click? Permalink? I wish I knew all of this before. - Liza + = ?

Ultimately the best thing to happen to FriendFeed would be the mass proliferation of 3rd party apps that offer a better user experience overall. Let the market sort out best functional IxD. How many highly active Twitter users use Twitter.com regularly? Not many, because there are several Twitter apps that afford a more active Twitter experience. Without them, Twitter would be news from 2006. - Laura Scott (@lauras)

I disagree. I came here because I agree with the point (as I stated in another thread), not because of the strongness. You may attract certain types with that, but not moi. - Bwana ☠

The best level of engagement that I've seen regarding Leo Laporte is when Arrington called him out openly and there was the big fuss of him getting thrown off the show. Just saying. - Michael Owens from iPhone

I also show twitter and friendfeed to a lot of new Internet users and they get confused easily. I think the only solution is to show one simple process and then after they master that for a week or so then show them another feature. - Craig Shipp

Eric: OK, heard and understood. But name another designer who does stuff with links that Kevin does. That needs to be pointed out strongly, I think. But then I get crazy about design, especially when people keep telling me over and over that FriendFeed is too hard to use and figure out. Even Liza, who has been here a lot, didn't know all that stuff was "hidden" under the affordance of the link. - Robert Scoble

Robert - I appreciate your sharing this info, but it feels strange that all of this seems like a secret. Intention is bizarre. - Liza + = ?

So Robert, do you really think Kevin and FF are actively ignoring this issue? - Bwana ☠

Bwana: yes. Why? Because it's been like this for 18 months. - Robert Scoble

As a user, I do feel like it is intentionally hidden. - Liza + = ?

Interesting - Bwana ☠

It isn't about ignoring. It's about continuance. These affordances have been here since FF started. - Michael Owens from iPhone

Michael: and they f**k with the affordances that everyone has learned on EVERY OTHER WEB SITE. This is why I used strong language. - Robert Scoble

Oh, and the "new ui" upgrade that happened a while back did nothing but add to the hidden complexity - Michael Owens from iPhone

Robert, The UI's difficulty is best expressed in comment threads with a huge number of comments, such as yours - http://friendfeed.com/bitchfe... - Aaman (Clone of FF)

And I am tech savvy, not an idiot, but the argument is, oh, you just aren't enough of a techie to get it. - Liza + = ?

I think the beauty of friendfeed is the fact that it can be used as a very basic tool but also has the power to do much more in the right hands - Craig Shipp

Who are the right hands? - Liza + = ?

And once these get fixed, the real thing that people can't figure out is what is new. On every other website there's an affordance for that. Even in SimplyTweet new Tweets are green. Quick, figure out what is new here that you haven't seen from the last time you were here. You can't. - Robert Scoble

Robert speaks truth. - Bwana ☠

Craig: That's the biggest copout I've ever heard. Maybe Kevin needs to go bak and read "Don't Make Me Think" by Steve Krug. - Michael Owens from iPhone

Liza: people like me who click on everything looking for secret features. :-) - Robert Scoble

Don't Make Me Think ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...) by Steve Krug may be the kind of design you are looking for. - Todd Hoff

@Todd: great minds think alike - Michael Owens from iPhone

Robert: but even Wordpress.com uses the date affordance as a permalink. http://bit.ly/Dwnm6 I understand the concerns about the mass of feature clarity here, but I don't see that particular date/link function as a standard bearer. - Sam Harrelson from IM

Scoble: OK point taken. So let's make this constructive: what should they do to fix it? For the timestamp, my suggestion is to make it bluer and underlined--which everyone associates with links. Do you agree? How can they fix the hide functionality, though? I'm struggling to think of a way. - Eric Florenzano from iPhone

Liza: I found a lot of bugs in WIndows 95 by unplugging my mouse and trying to use the entire UI via the keyboard. But then I'm weird. Most people will never try anything. In fact, Google's own research shows that fewer than 1% will click on "advanced search." These weird affordances are even harder than THAT to figure out. - Robert Scoble

So if this doesn't change, FF may not get as wide of an adoption that it deserves. Hide, permalinks, and little things make a huge difference. The technology is too good for this to be its downfall. - Bwana ☠

Not having older items shaded or otherwise marked as old does effectively contribute to noise. - phil baumann

I'm not saying friendfeed can't be made better. I'm just saying it can be used from a basic level with little training. - Craig Shipp

I was accused of working for Friendfeed at an event 2 nights ago, for being an evangelist, and I still know very little about the functionality. AND I do like to think, I do click on a lot, but I also appreciate the intention of inclusion. - Liza + = ?

Eric: I would NOT put two hidden features under one link. They need a tab of "customizations and secret features" and put all that stuff there. - Robert Scoble

I'm not sure it's ever going to change at this point... which is sad - Bwana ☠

Liza: everyone knows I'm so excited about FriendFeed that they whine when I don't bring it up. Seriously. It's funny. - Robert Scoble

Whoops sorry Michael, didn't see yours. But it is a good book. Affordances is a bit abstract. He does a good job making the idea concrete. - Todd Hoff

what social site is better? - Craig Shipp

Twitter made a big improvement with contextual menu, such may add a value in FF too. - abdellah

Craig: define better. Twitter is easier. Facebook has more hooks and more users. - Robert Scoble

Which social site has the better UI? - Bwana ☠

Bwana: which is why I used strong language. - Robert Scoble

Until FB and twitter update in real time they aren't even in the game as far as I'm concerned - Craig Shipp

Robert: Twitter has the best UI? - K.N. Ajit Narayan

better UI!! ask myspace ugly by purpose. - abdellah

The problem is w/o knowing the affordances, Newbies create too much noise, feel embarassed and retreat - felt that but did not retreat - Liza + = ?

Facebook used to have a great UI imho. It's changed so much, now I can't find anything - Bwana ☠

FF has the better UI would be my guess. But better is such a subjective word. - Brian Sullivan

K.N. define "best." It's certainly easier to understand than FriendFeed is. Especially if you use a great client like SimplyTweet on my iPhone or Seesmic on my desktop. - Robert Scoble

Scoble: I'm not sure about the tab idea. It would add a lot of visual load on ever pageview. Instead, I'm thinking maybe if hide was a hover dropdown. When you hover over it, it says "Hide just this item", and "Hide all items like these" so that you know what you're getting into. This could work just like the top subnavigation items in many websites, which people are familiar with. Thoughts? - Eric Florenzano

Agree Twitter's UI is great - was in a studygroup of power users - most of us use web interface with multiple browsers rather than Tweetdeck, b/c simplicity is preferred. - Liza + = ?

Eric: this is why I'm not a UI designer. I like your solution better. - Robert Scoble

Hover is an evil thing in a real-time interface - Bwana ☠

I may repeat it but contextuel menu, yes do it well, that all , FF have to do that , twitter have done it. - abdellah

i hate chasing links - Bwana ☠

Bwana: Ahh yeah, good point. Maybe it would have to pause realtime (considering you are actually doing an action) - Eric Florenzano

Robert: Was talking about Twitter, the site...It's really easy to work with, provided you are not following too many people.. - K.N. Ajit Narayan

On FF you can type in the box and hit enter. How difficult is that? - Craig Shipp

Yeah Eric, it would have to - Bwana ☠

Even this thread is hard to read. No ability to specifically reply etc. Another reason I rarely visit. - Shripriya

FF used to pause real time whenever you your cursor was over a posting or its comments-- somehow that feature got removed. - Brian Sullivan

Shripiya: This conversation will definitely stink unless you find the hidden permalink - Bwana ☠

lisa, that's one thing and four words :) - Craig Shipp

Which supports Robert's argument - Bwana ☠

I don't know if I will be able to handle a better FF - Craig Shipp

I went to grab a glass of water, and have no clue what is going on now - see what I mean? - Liza + = ?

@Craig Oh for sure you can remember the alpha version and when beta come. - abdellah

Maybe using IM is best, don't know, but, for now, I find it labor intensive vs. Twitter. I like BOTH, and I will continue to use BOTH, but that does not mean there are not simple fixes to improve the UI. - Liza + = ?

@liza no you know for sure what is going on , you know that this thread is about "....", you remmeber what you have said before, you remember the person for whome you talked so for sure you know were you are at the discussion. - abdellah

It would be nice to see some of the FF team on this discussion, Kevin Fox in particular. - phil baumann

I want to reply to indiv comments, it is impossible unless I say @robert or HEY BWANA, that is silly, crappy design. Am I missing something? Plus, everyone calls me LISA not LIZA, so I can hardly answer the questions directed at me without looking for both. - Liza + = ?

Robert should have cc'd the FriendFeed feedback room - Bwana ☠

Phil: it is Sunday and they do need some time off of their work. Hopefully Kevin will show up tonight or tomorrow. - Robert Scoble

Liz: yep, I love FF's IM integration. I've got a popout window open on the side of my desktop and can keep up with things (from this thread and everything I monitor on FF) much more easily. - Sam Harrelson from IM

LIZA - not lisa or liz, ha ha - Liza + = ?

With that said, I love FriendFeed's comment UI. That's what hooked me to the service - Bwana ☠

Robert - I am clicking on everything in site, so if I blow up something, oops, sorry. - Liza + = ?

Liza apologies. multi-tasking fail. - Sam Harrelson from IM

Glen, yep, that's where discoverability comes in. Things should be easy to discover based on visual cues. It shouldn't be like playing a game of Myst. - Akiva

UNaffordances - Liza + = ?

Robert - yeah, even if they read this tomorrow, there's good stuff here that's important if the service it to grow in use. - phil baumann

Say it with me folks : User-friendly-ability. We HAZ NONE here. - Sean

Robert - now that you are here, I also think it is a mistake to expect users to choose FF or Twitter - recently you have backed off and choose to use both, BUT many of your "followers" are testy with those of us who use both. Until FF is easier to use, I will use both. That is my choice. Positioning FF as Twitter hating is bad move, ppl. - Liza + = ?

Who is positioning FF as a Twitter hater? Some people hate Twitter (I personally think Twitter is a waste of mindwidth). How does that have anything to do with FF other than the fact that they post on FF? - Brian Sullivan

Brian, do a search, you will find MANY ppl are positioning FF as anti-twitter, and I don't agree with the approach. I personally get a LOT of grief from both sides of the fence for using both, and I am not going to pick a side just b/c others tell me I should. - Liza + = ?

Kevin - yes, that is a frustration. - phil baumann

Kevin, totally agreed with that comment, especially when using via the iPhone. It's nice to see comments per OP, but the UI for managing things is horrible and wastes a lot of time, denting my enthusiasm for more participation. - Sally Church

Officially PISSED OFF - using IM FAIL. Opens new page for every feed. Then I respond in Gtalk and get unknown command. F this. Time to breath deep and try not to explode. - Liza + = ?

Liza, type in "help" for the list of commands in IM or there's a list on the site. Not sure about the page thing... I don't get that in GTalk. - Sam Harrelson from IM

Liza: consistently when people meet me they ask "what is next after Twitter?" I don't answer FriendFeed, I wish I could. - Robert Scoble

I don't like help menus or reading instructions. I appreciate your efforts, but I am just pissed off in general b/c I like to figure things out on my own. I can't spend yrs clicking on FF for hidden treasures. - Liza + = ?

People always ask me why should they use FriendFeed over Twitter.... it gets old after a while - Bwana ☠

Robert - exactly, if we knew what was next, it would be dull. Beauty in playing, mashing, exploring. - Liza + = ?

Wow Robert, way throw out an HCI term! Are we going to discuss GOMS or Fitts' Law next? :-) - Bill Welense from iPhone

Bwana - I gave it a shot yesterday with some success in the last day. - http://ff.im/6kbAN - phil baumann

Robert - nice comment. Would love to tweet it to share, but don't know how to isolate it on this f-d up interface. - Liza + = ?

Liza - I'd like to be able to tweet comments they way Disqus allows it. - phil baumann

This is Liza frustrated and cranky, sorry for letting my evil twin out, but this feed triggered it. #blamescoble - Liza + = ?

I'm wondering if FriendFeed will remain the domain of us geeks. Is that a BIG enough market for their business model though? - Jim Connolly

I secretly hope so, Jim. Twitter was great in 2006 B.K. (Before Kutchner) when it was populated only by geeks :) - Sam Harrelson from IM

Holden: Well, I'm pretty sure someone hopes to make some money from FF. - Jim Connolly

Sam: I have to admit, I would hate to see FF flooded like Twitter is. - Jim Connolly

The fact is Robert that These problems have never crossed my mind. Actually, come to think of it. A unified settings page would be nice. However. Just becuae the UI is unconventional, going against the grain, does not mean it's a bad UI. I'd love to see a mockup of how you would do it better. - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

Holden: I didn't say it wasn't great. I still use and love Twitter. I just miss the good ole days. - Sam Harrelson from IM

Don't even get me started with a wish list of options. - Liza + = ?

CONFESSION: I did not know until now about double clicking on the time-link to get a pop-out window. - Jim Connolly

Holden: Twitter's a spam-filled hunk of crap. - Jim Connolly

Holden: You may not automatically see a business model, but they would have had to produce something to get $$$ funding. BTW: Twitter's got the audience, though. It's where the people are. Only reason I use it. - Jim Connolly

Friendfeed is not difficult to use. It is so intuitive. I love that I can easily block certain things, search for items that have a specific number of likes, see a user's likes, etc. It's wayyyyyyy easy. - Ben Hanten

Ben: A lot of new users tell me they can't figure it out. - Jim Connolly

they're not trying then, Jim - Chris Heath

If this was put up to a vote, I would vote to have a better FAQ, but I would definitely keep the design as free of extra buttons as possible. - Ben Hanten

Hmm, wow, lots of comments fast on this post. Too bad it's a Sunday, I imagine Kevin is up to other things right this second... - Jason Wehmhoener

Can someone help me find the link to create imaginary friend? - Krishnamoorthy

Holden, well that's their loss if they can't 'get it' - friendfeed is simple and IMHO if you can't 'get it' then that's your problem, not friendfeed's - Chris Heath

http://friendfeed.com/setting... - Chris Heath

Krishnamoorthy - http://friendfeed.com/setting... - phil baumann

the Imaginary Friend function is now a part of Groups. for example, I created a private "group" with my wife's name and brought in all of her feeds since she's not on FriendFeed. - Sam Harrelson from IM

Ok, the imaginary friend thing is a different story. Awesome concept; but way too much work to add a bunch of users. - Ben Hanten

I think a good start would be to have a totally different "entry point" for setting up hiding rules. Also, defaults might need to be reconsidered. Is it the best to always start off by showing everything from a user? FF already asks you to select your "top five" feeds you want to show off in your profile... Could it make sense to only show stuff from people's top five by default, so one needs to opt-in to get any more of their feeds? - Meryn Stol

Perhaps a big, dedicated "mute Twitter" (though I'd prefer "Kill Twitter" ;)) button would also make sense. After all, Twitter is in itself responsible for most items - and thus most potential "noise" - on FriendFeed. - Meryn Stol

you can still quickly create an imaginary friend (as Sam said it's part of groups now) but if you don't want to choose the private group setting yourself just go here http://friendfeed.com/setting... - Chris Heath

maybe i'm wrong and an imaginary friend is different than a private group, but the functionality seems the same - there was a discussion a few months ago about this: http://friendfeed.com/friendf... - Chris Heath

Chris, yep... good point. - Sam Harrelson from IM

Imaginary friends are easy to setup, but... you really should be able to do a whole batch of them. - Ben Hanten

Ben, it's rather janky, but my students have private Twitter accts for labs in my class that I read and interact with using the Imaginary Friends + private Groups feature. Plus, I have a nice archive of all student activity that I can search through. Not a great solution, but a good workaround for my extreme case. - Sam Harrelson from IM

there's a lot on the friendfeed roadmap, and i think that's one of the items... if you participate in the friendfeed feedback room you can get lots of answers to these types of questions http://friendfeed.com/friendf... - Chris Heath

You can search for the official FriendFeeders' feedback, as Chris suggested, with this saved search: https://friendfeed.com/ffss... - Ahsan Ali

Interesting topic. For me personally I use FF for reading rather than contributing or commenting, and via mobile more than the web, but I do agree the UI isn't the best. I would like a google reader or better still, a Feedly style interface. I want to know about what I haven't seen that's in my groups or feeds. And I want that simple and easy with no hidden features or maybe simple and expert interfaces. - Keith Bennett from BuddyFeed

You'r right Robert. - Alper

It's not the UI that's keeping the mainstream from using the site. This is akin to asking why the mainstream has yet to discover the wonders of traditional message boards. Fact of the matter is most people don't have the desire (not to mention spare time) to continually engage with a stream full of random social media tidbits on a regular basis. But if that's your cup of tea, I think the UI is excellent for sharing, discovering, and keeping up with the real-time chatter. - Aviv

Kevin, it's pretty simple to get to your likes. http://friendfeed.com/samharr... - Sam Harrelson from IM

Has Kevin Fox responded to this thread? - Manuel Mas

Not sure he should -- seems like Robert made vicious and personal attack -- and a lack of response might be appropriate and classy. - Brian Sullivan

I certainly wouldn't join into this pile-on if I were Kevin. "Oh hey, I noticed you all were kicking me while I was trying to have a weekend, here I am now, go ahead for another round!" - Jason Wehmhoener

On the bright side, you know your service is about to hit mainstream when your biggest cheerleader starts to hate it (see Twitter). - Aviv

Aviv: nah, that's not a good predictor. - Robert Scoble

One thing I would like to know is, where is the link in friendfeed to the application key? I always have to search it from google. - Ru Viljoen

it's unnecessary to be brutally rude RB but these comments are valuable, we are expecting alot from 12 FF supergeeks, they cannot be perfect but they are incredibly good already. - Thomas Power

I think "hide" was perfectly designed. The user doesn't get smacked in the face immediately upon loading a page in friendfeed that resembles the control panel of an old fashioned telephone switchboard. One simple hide link, that the user will click when they want to hide something, that then asks what you want to hide. It's called not overwhelming the user with too much info at once,... more... - April

April: they can put a lot of functionality into "settings" that would also do the same thing as hide does today. Most people don't figure out that the hide link has extra functionality. - Robert Scoble

It's better than what facebook does, which is to hide their multi-function hide button, until you hover over the item. I'd rather have it the friendfeed way and at least know it's there by looking and not by having to play "find the invisible features" game by moving my mouse all over the page waiting for all the little facebook easter eggs to make themselves known. You have no idea how... more... - April

I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE YELLING! I LOVE LAMP! - Mark J

(I'm being facetious. Robert's STRONG points are still pretty tactfully expressed, IMHO.) - Mark J

http://ff.im/6n4fT - Hachure

And I don't understand how any twitter user could possibly not know that the timestamp is a permalink. Timestamps on twitter are permalinks too. Ok, the clicking again thing was a bit of an easter egg, but how else could you add a nifty little feature like that without adding any clutter? Even if you gave a full tutorial FAQ, how on earth could you present all these little extras in a way that doesn't overwhelm a newbie and make them run away without reading the huge FAQ? - April

Missing the point, not about geeks vs non-geeks, even geeks disagree on UI issues,and it is dismissive and insulting to act as if mainstream is not geeky enough to understand crappy UI. My opinion matters, and it was not until a fellow geek, Scoble, brought it up that anyone acknowledged that there may be some UI issues. - Liza + = ?

So go back to using twitter. - JCunwired

I know of a site that has worse issues, for example, clicking the RSS icon on a page takes you to a forum thread with a gazillion posts explaining how to subscribe to the content you want, using all the custom crap they have. You basically have to learn how to build your own RSS url before you can subscribe. And don't click the "Mark" button on a forum thread there unless you want to... more... - April

FF may be messing with affordances, but I don't see it as f*cling with them. I see it as an attempt to innovate. The 'nonintuitive' behavior is a bit of a PITA, but it adds richness to the app. It is also innovation in action. The most painful upshot of suck innovation ia the fet associated with playing with a UI's functionality - you might end up breaking something really important or... more... - Jason Miller from iPhone

JCUnwired That is not helpful or constructive. Stick to one-sided debates. - Liza + = ?

Funny thing is though... I have used Excel and Word without ever reading a manual. Now I'm pretty ninja at both but never had any formal training. Neither has about 95% of the people I know how use it, yet everyone I know has worked it out enough to use it well. See, they have these things up the top like File, Edit etc that hold the functions. Those things are not always required and... more... - Johnny

Well put johnny - Mark from iPhone

Which social app has the best interface? Easy Facebook. - John Hardy

As far as I can tell "affordance" and "discoverability" are different ways of looking at the same concept. And I've been complaining about the timestamp thing for a long time. - Karl Knechtel

I've been complaining about FF's ease of use since I started using it. I'm glad there's some traction on it. ridiculous that the time stamp is not displayed as a (permanent) link. - jbrotherlove

Never mind that the timestamp isn't displayed as a link. The problem is that it makes no sense for the timestamp to be the thing that is clicked. - Karl Knechtel

I like it, its a nice gate. It keeps FF tech based. It keeps things relevant. Its an Acid Test. There are plenty of alternatives. And those alternatives that cater to everyone, are full of Blither Blather. If you pass the gate, and pass the Acid Test, you learn about the community and the discussion. With a robust Community and Discussion, Self Policing and Spammers are annihilated. Self Healing Robust System. - Robert Higgins

Apostol Apostolov, Ana ( http://friendfeed.com/ana ) has confirmed that they're on the issue of adding recipients and groups after posting an item about a month ago - http://friendfeed.com/friendf... - Chris Heath

I totally agree with Robert HIggins & Johnny Worthington's recent comments - Chris Heath

Robert, thanks for your thoughts. Three quick responses: affordances aren't something that someone fucks with, they're something that a designer gives to a design and it's fine to say that you don't think I'm designing a product with proper affordances or strong enough affordances, but the implication that I fucked them up is that I took the gestalt natural affordances of something and... more... - Kevin Fox

The above distinction is important because the argument then becomes one of whether or not FriendFeed has been imbued with proper affordances or not. Now naturally the answer varies from person to person, as it does with any UI for any product. FriendFeed is trying to balance functionality with simplicity and, as is the case for any product with that task, any point on the spectrum could be criticized for either hiding too much of the complexity or showing too much, even at the same by different people. - Kevin Fox

So the strategy then becomes, as has been mentioned here, one of making the simple things easy and the complex things possible. The most common tactic to enable that strategy, and one we rely upon a lot at FriendFeed, is that of progressive disclosure. This works for some people and not for others, but it's usually an excellent way to make a UI that's not intimidating to a new user, and... more... - Kevin Fox

As for the timestamp also acting as the permalink: Well, you're absolutely right. This is a completely improper affordance that only makes sense if you happen to be familiar with blogs that use the same convention. Fixing this (with something less heavy-handed than a link that says 'link' or 'permalink' or (gasp) an icon of two links in a chain) is high on our list and I want to fold it... more... - Kevin Fox

When we get that worked out in a way we're happy with then we'll roll it out. Until then, it's also important to consider user confidence, and that tweaking a UI too often when trying to find the right answer makes users less comfortable with the design and their ability to manipulate it, even if they don't consciously notice any change. For this reason a few things stay rough a little longer until we have what we think is the right answer, not just a stopgap one. - Kevin Fox

As always, thanks for the feedback, and for trying to make FriendFeed a better place. - Kevin Fox

Wow - Bwana ☠

Wow. +500 xp to Kevin. - Sam Harrelson

Kevin I love you because you explain why you are messing with the affordances! :-) - Robert Scoble from iPhone

Doesn't sound like they're ignoring it to me, Robert :) - Bwana ☠

Bwana: me neither! Glad Kevin explained. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

I'm liking this article simply because of Kevin's explanation of why things are the way they are here on friendfeed. He knocked that one out of the park. - Scoble, Alex Scoble

Kevins camp. In Japanese there is one word for beauty. Kirei. Actually, it is the same word for Clean Kirei. 奇麗 FF for me is clean and beautiful. "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Leonardo daVinci - Robert Higgins

So if we're going to change the time stamp from being a permalink, can we use it to sort posts chronologically? That is the one affordance no one can discover. - Andrew Smith

I didn't read the full thread, but reading the top and (what is at this point) the bottom really helps me understand what the UI people do. Thanks Robert and Kevin! - Andrew

Big props to Kevin Fox. - Sameer

Kevin rocks. Even on a Sunday night. They pay me to say stuff like that at work. The thought of having to step up to the plate anytime 24/7 with that level of professionalism is daunting, to say the least. So yah, big props to Kevin Fox. - Jason Wehmhoener

I actually like the current UI. I like the feature set. I agree it DOES need a more intuitive and quicker way to know about and learn the deeper features. - George Hall (Australia)

There is something to be said for having the conversation first - then Kevin calmly explaining his pts. It gives others a chance to respond honestly, and then Kevin gets far more valuable feedback. Selifishly, I also like the fact that I can see others' views - many who did not address UI issues but showed a defensive sense of entitlement (see Louis's chart on new adopters)...Robert,... more... - Liza + = ?

Great responses Kevin. For the record, I'm a fan of the "progressive disclosure" approach. - Mike Doeff from iPhone

Really great points, Robert. I've learned some things because of this discussion. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. - Brian Adrian

One answer to Kevin. Blogs, since the beginning of when I started to use them used the "permalink" or "#" convention. I guess the thing is that in FriendFeed the CSS here is hiding the blue underline, so people don't know that the time stamp is a link. It's tough designing for the web, I know. That's why I don't do it. At least very often. :-) - Robert Scoble

Twitter uses a time stamp as a perma-link as well. </fuel to fire> - Bwana ☠

Yeah. I just tweeted about that myself. </more fuel to fire> - Dennis Jernberg

Fascinating. Didn't know about the timestamp as permalink, but I didn't suffer from unnatural affordance issues prior to reading this discussion either. Not an ubergeek, but I don't suffer. So, maybe FF is not "above the heads" of the average, but merely yields enough at any level to meet whatever the particular need might be, wacky affordances or not. And people who avoid it because it is "too hard" need to toughen up a bit. This is 2009 and the Internet, after all. - Martha

Also, the "Share" link exposes the permalink as well which I think was a great addition to alleviate the time stamp confusion. - Bwana ☠

Wow. How did Kevin get those 5 paragraphs contiguously posted? Copy-paste-post. Copy-paste-post? Or is there some other secret weapon not yet released? - Nick in Manila

Nick - I'd bet 1000 gil on Notepad/Textedit :) - Bwana ☠

I'm waiting for the twitter theme for friendfeed, to show people exactly how easy FF is to use considering its features and exactly how braindead twitter's UI is. - Andy Bakun

Nick & Bwana: Textedit and copy/paste/post. As I was c/p/p-ing I thought about how I could make a tool using the API to allow for this kind of thing, then envisioned how that would break FriendFeed and banished the thought. (and then I just commented about it anyhow. Oh what have I wrought? I am become death, destroyer of words.) - Kevin Fox

Bwana: hey, at least FriendFeed's designer listens and answers back. That might get more mud thrown his way, but a whole lot of love too. Personally Twitter's design isn't very good, but everyone thinks it is because it doesn't have many features so they perceive that as simplicity. I perceive it as inferior but that really pisses off the Twitter types and they start arguing with me about stuff like the above. - Robert Scoble

Robert - I was just thinking that. We would NEVER get this kind of interaction with a Twitter dev on a work day. - Bwana ☠

Part of me knew Kevin would address this at some point. It was merely a matter of when. - Bwana ☠

I hope this thread/conversation doesn't end any time soon, either here on this post or elsewhere. I want FF to be the best it can. - phil baumann

I think FF is waaaaaay easier to use than Twitter and recently started using FF to follow my twitter feeds. Images and videos are inline and comments are threaded (no silly @ replies). I only wish more of my friends were on it!! (also, it would be nice if comments were formatted with the commenters name first which seems to be the convention on most sites i.e. "May: blah blah blah"). - May

To go back to the top a little bit: does anyone think it ISN'T weird that not all the links on FF are blue? Not just the time stamp: the service your content was imported from, your name at the top of your profile, and the time stamp are all non-blue links. Is there a logical reason for those inconsistencies? I've never understood that. - Andrew

Awesome explanation by Kevin. I happen to love FF's progressive disclosure. I think the 'hide' feature is a great example of this. You could argue that they might make the second stage a bit more obvious, but it's still a lot better than a huge drop down menu at the start. - Ben Reierson

Even Twitter has a ramp up time. It took me about a month of working it to get comfortable with it. Only slightly longer than it took me with Twitter. And it is light years better in most every way. I agree with Robert's desire to enforce change through public criticism, but I think it important to keep it in perspective: FF is generally a better experience on all fronts. Kudos to Kevin Fox and the rest of the team. I feel confident they are more than capable of seeing issues and resolving them. - Martha

i never really had a problem with that Andrew, and I never had the problem with the permalink either... if your mouse changes from pointer to finger, then it's a link and you can see the destination in the status bar - Chris Heath

Andrew: I actually hate blue underlines. Designers have hated that affordance for years. They look ugly. They make text harder to read. I'm in Kevin Fox's camp on that one. Get rid of underlines! Just make affordances that people can figure out without being told about (like clicking twice on hide or clicking twice on the time stamps). - Robert Scoble

robert, i don't get your clicking twice on hide problem... hide seems fine, and while i don't use it much i don't recall clicking twice, like with the timestamp - Chris Heath

Chris: normal people don't mouse over every word in a UI to discover whether there is a secret link there. Also, explain how hovering over "hide" would tell a user that there's different functionality there if you click twice on that word? - Robert Scoble

Chris: if you click twice on the word "hide" you will get different UI that will give you different choices. If you click twice on the time stamp you will get a popout window. Not intuitive at all. - Robert Scoble

when i click hide i get an undo and hide options links, that seems the correct UI - i agree with you on the timestamp, but the hide thing isn't the same - Chris Heath

Chris: Hide does act differently, I agree, but most people, in my experience, don't look at the second page because they don't expect to see more options. Remember 99% of people never click on Google's Advanced Options. Do you REALLY expect people to click twice on Hide? I don't. And even if they did, shouldn't those features be in settings too? Where people expect to find them? - Robert Scoble

i don't buy your beef w/ hide, but i agree on the timestamp - i also agree with you on not having to hover everything to see if it's click-able and also don't like underlining, so there needs to be some other visual cue of the link/feature - Chris Heath

sometimes features do need to be learned/taught and everything can't be intuitive... i think we might be overshooting our ideals for usability. remember the days of three ring binders and books and manuals for using any given system or software package? we've come a long way, but users do have to learn some things. i think friendfeed has done a good job of making the site usable for the... more... - Chris Heath

Given a top complaint about FriendFeed is too much noise, Hide needs to be more intuitive. - Bwana ☠

Since I still get the dumb blonde / not techie treatment from many, I am going to go w/ it and say that even I figured out hide early on. The timestamp stuff was news to me. - Liza + = ?

I'd wager at least half of FriendFeed doesn't know about the second page of hide options. I've had to explain it countless times and a ton of people didn't even know you could selectively hide services based on comment/like behavior, etc - Bwana ☠

Kevin, Thanks for listening and major props for taking your time to listen to constructive critisicm. - Jack Wilson, K4SAC

9/10 of the folks that use Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc don't know all the features and functions. Having every single function be completely intuitive and/or labeled is not needed for mainstream acceptance or usage if that's what we're all worried about here. - Sam Harrelson from IM

Every single function, I agree. Hide, needs to be more intuitive. - Bwana ☠

Bwana, I agree as a power-user, but how many folks would actually use "Hide"? It's an edge-case function that will/would never catch on with the mainstream. I just don't get these complaints. - Sam Harrelson from IM

Sam: you're right. But I didn't get this kind of pushback when I evangelized Twitter and Facebook had many more hooks to get people into their system than FriendFeed does (and keep them there) and even Facebook doesn't have a lot of the weird affordances that FriendFeed does even though it's more complex. The complaints I get consistently on FriendFeed (a lot of which have to do with... more... - Robert Scoble

Oh, and the number of comments here tells me a lot of people feel very passionately about FriendFeed and want it to be better, even if they are telling me I'm full of it. - Robert Scoble

The complaint is noise. There's too much. There's too many duplicates. I don't want to see "X". These are complaints I see and answer often. The solution is hide and they don't know about them. It's not a power user function imho. - Bwana ☠

FF lost a lot of users during the initial launch because people didn't know about or want to properly hide unwanted stuff. - Bwana ☠

"FriendFeed is full of baby photos" Classic complaint. Solved by hide. - Bwana ☠

It's always the user's fault. Always. - Rah-PM 2012

Robert, I got on Twitter around Thanksgiving of '06 b/c of your evangelicalism (thank you/curse you btw!). But the concept there was/is much more easy to grok. Of course folks are going to think FF is hard b/c it is hard. But to bastardize JFK, "we choose to go to the moon and do these other things in this decade not b/c they are easy but b/c they are hard!" - Sam Harrelson from IM

friendfeed isn't hard...unless you think a blank piece of paper is hard. - Scoble, Alex Scoble

Depends on your definition of hard. Some people think complicated or inconvenient is hard. - Bwana ☠

Alex, have you ever written a book for a publisher that loaned you money and expects the money back? A blank piece of paper is incredibly hard! - Sam Harrelson

Look at lists. Very powerful tool of FriendFeed, but for some, it's too much work. Some may call it hard, some may call it.... too much work :) - Bwana ☠

Sam: but this blank piece of paper can write itself thanks to the integration with other sites :) - Andrew

I know in the apps I've tested, if the UI was difficult for the end user, they would avoid using it. - Bwana ☠

Andrew, you are completely right. Good point. I'm thinking from a contributing point of view (b/c I'm a teacher and I always want to influence, etc) but you're right. - Sam Harrelson

Alex: is blank paper sort of like a blank Wordpress entry screen? I get it then. - Robert Scoble

Seeing a real-time stream of the full conversation is highly desirable and one of the best features of the service. I design and use software all the time and didn't know about the time stamp link until someone told me about it. Robert is doing them (another) favor by using controversial language to bring attention to the issue. I bet we see an update in a week or two and the service will be better for it. - Chip Ramsey

I can see it now: if entry["from"]["id"] == "scobelizer": theme = "lots-o-links" - DGentry

either that, or entry["body"] = pigLatinize(entry["body"]) - DGentry

Wow ... Great dialog. Kudos to Kevin for his comments! I have demo'd Friendfeed for more people than I can count. Most of the issue has to do with people's time vs value (or just fun). Is it harder than Facebook? NO! Nobody says you have to use it all and 9 out of 10 people I've demo'd Facebook for have NO IDEA what a permission is (Think about that ... and the defaults?!). Twitter has... more... - Charlie Anzman

Then ... The Friendfeed Browser and OS! - Charlie Anzman

Robert, given Kevin's responses, you might want to edit/tweak the Original Post/headline. I wish there was a way to promote the comments so they were 'pinned' to the OP - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Aaman: what's an OP? The headline? - Robert Scoble

Yes, the Original Post - I wasn't familiar with the term myself, and saw it first on this very thread, then googled it. (It can also mean Original Poster) - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Glen: I'm not scared of feeling dumb. I feel dumb every day given the quality of the people I hang out with. - Robert Scoble

@Kevin: wondering if there could be a link that would take you to a page that would show what features have been added, disabled, or removed. - Harold

Matthew: you make sense. I've locked the comments here so you can see Kevin Fox's reply without digging back too far. - Robert Scoble

Anna Farmery

Age Demogrpahics For Social Sites - http://www.bizzia.com/buzznet...

July 28, 2009 from Buzz Networker - Comment - Like - Share

Linda Mills liked this

Robert Scoble

I love it when people say no one uses FriendFeed like @cgiorgi does. I have more real users there than I had on Twitter a year ago.

July 26, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

TheHenry, LANjackal, Jeff P. Henderson and 12 other people liked this

Way to go. After being offline from social websites for over 2 months, I kept being followed by a massive swarm of internet marketers on twitter only. Won't happen on FF with the same methodology. - Zu from AOD

11 more comments

Robert, you have to agree it's different experience for different people. I also notice that region plays a difference. I got tons of reaction in Twitter when I first posted the first picture of the Ritz/Marriott bombings in Jakarta, but this post got zero reaction in Friendfeed. I did a search and there are no conversations (no likes, no comments) at all around this topic. But Jakarta, Ritz Carlton, Marriott bombings was a trending topic in Twitter for a number of days - Andre P. Siregar

Andre: I've noticed that too. Definitely Twitter has more people from a broader range of experience. Twitter also has more people who spread information than FriendFeed has at the moment. FriendFeed is two years behind Twitter, though, in growth (it was born two years later) so that's to be expected. - Robert Scoble

it's rare for me to even go to my twitter account !!! Why when you have friend feed... - Chris Henderson

What is twitter :p half the damn followers are either spammers, salesman, or social media experts :! - Mark

The spammers go where the masses are. When Friendfeed gets enough users they will come here too. What does Friendfeed have that Twitter doesn't when it comes to protection against this? Twitter has block feature too - Andre P. Siregar from fftogo

Andre: Twitter's block feature does not work. You can't block people from search, for instance. Here block works EVERYWHERE. Also there are other features that make FriendFeed more resistant to spam, but I won't go into those cause I don't want to help the spammers out. - Robert Scoble

I've been spending more and more time away from twitter as the days go on. I've even started moving away from google reader because of friendfeed. - Danny F Santos

I post my FF comments through to Twitter and have my non FF Twitter friends setup here as imaginary friends, but I never visit Twitter anymore! - travispuk from iPhone

Travis: yeah and what is worse is we were SO excited to get megs of RAM. Quark ran so fast. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

I think there should be more focus on those that are working with the API than the actual platform itself. I pay more attention to new services like chirpio that bolt on to the Twitter API and make the much needed improvements to spam filtering. Filtering out the noise has been handled better from the beginning in FriendFeed thanks to lists, but all it takes is for an app maker to do something clever with the Twitter API and the same result is achieved over there. - Dan Monsieurle

I think FriendFeed's great, but it's a bit too big and clunky for normal use in my opinion. I much prefer the use of Twitter. But I see why people like FriendFeed. I just need something mobile, fast, and lightweight as what I use the most. But I continue to use FriendFeed because I because I love the functionality of groups, comments, etc. EDIT: I suppose if I got into a habit of using email to update FriendFeed and whatnot from my phone, then I'd like it a bit more. - Andrew Hays

Robert, I remember those days well. QuarkXpress was my 90% application, the other 10% was waiting for my SE30 to boot. ;) - travispuk from iPhone

Sylvain Grand'Maison

Even tho web is fun, gardening for a whole day makes you feel more alive than doing any web shit for a week.

July 23, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Linda Mills liked this

Jack Rice

#healthcare Gosh I love having a President who can speak in complete sentences.

July 22, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Linda Mills liked this

Chris Brogan

Facebook- PLEASE do better with your ads - http://www.chrisbrogan.com/faceboo...

July 14, 2009 from chrisbrogan.com - Comment - Like - Share

sofiagk, Linda Mills, Daniel B. Honigman and Denise Aday liked this

Ha! How true. The video hit the nail on the head. The ads in FB do need some improvement. However I don't know that we will be seeing this any time soon as it doesn't seem to be on top of their priority list right now. - Adriana

I just returned to Facebook after a long vacation from the mess, and it still looks like a dog's dinner to me, which is actually insulting to dog food these days. Perhaps the better analogy would be to MySpace, which it reminds me of, too. (And yes, I could have replied over there, but I'd rather be here on FriendFeed...) - Linda Mills

Yea nobody that good looking would be looking for me! I mean, you would think the 100th time they have presented that and I have not clicked they would try something new. I can not belive it is the FB technology, it must be the recession is worse than we realize and niche advertisers are in thier funding bunkers. - Chad Harris

Leo Laporte

Celebrating Cronkite while ignoring what he did - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com - http://www.salon.com/opinion...

July 18, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

howardrs, Fred Yankowski, Eric Geller and 19 other people liked this

"Cronkite's best moment was when he did exactly that which the modern journalist today insists they must not ever do -- directly contradict claims from government and military officials and suggest that such claims should not be believed. These days, our leading media outlets won't even use words that are disapproved of by the Government. Despite that, media stars will spend ample time flamboyantly commemorating Cronkite's death as though he reflects well on what they do (though probably not nearly as much time as they spent dwelling on the death of Tim Russert, whose sycophantic servitude to Beltway power and "accommodating head waiter"-like, mindless stenography did indeed represent quite accurately what today's media stars actually do). In fact, within Cronkite's most important moments one finds the essence of journalism that today's modern media stars not only fail to exhibit, but explicitly disclaim as their responsibility." - Leo Laporte from Bookmarklet

10 more comments

hmmm..leo ..."our leading media outlets won't even use words that are disapproved of by the Government."?? You obviously have not watched FoxNews lately..;) - glen moffitt

In Europe the news is pointing the fact that when Cronkite said America is losing the war in Vietnam, The then president Johnston said "We lost Cronkite, We lost Middle- America" then never ran for a second term. - Michael Mooney

Fox isn't news though. It's factless infotainment. That is, versus something like CNN that fact-based infotainment. - Anika

"CNN" is "fact-based?" Hummmm ... What world is THAT in? - Don Smith

In the world where Fox just makes up stuff. Clearly. - Anika

Rachel Maddow had Dan Rather on Friday. Dan commented on this topic. - Michael Hansel

"Fox just makes up stuff?" -- Examples please? - Don Smith

Reporters are really only obliged to report the facts as truthfully as possible. It is for listeners, viewers and readers to draw their own conclusions. Reporting is not the same as punditry which is what people, certainly Greenwald, seems to be confusing reporting with. If the government (or others) present information to a reporter then it is the government that lies not the reporter.... more... - tom murphy

The so called "News channels" haven't been responsible for delivering news in several decades now. When the first journalist asked the question "So how do you FEEL about..." it stopped being news and became entertainment. It isn't even informative. I don't care which channel you are watching/listening to. - Steve Martin

This quote from the article hit the nail on the head (but it now applies to news outlets on both sides of the Atlantic): “There was a time in America when the press and the government were on opposite sides of the field,” [...] “The press was supposed to speak on behalf of the people. The new tradition is that the press speaks on behalf of the government.” - Andrew Terry

Journalism went off the rails when it stopped reporting and started advocating. - Norman Lorrain

Scott Beale

The Great Google Doodle Triforce Conspiracy - http://lslinks.laughingsquid.com/the-gre...

July 17, 2009 from Posterous - Comment - Like - Share

Berk D. Demir, Joshua Schnell, Jon Winters and 4 other people liked this

YES! - Jon Winters

Win - Joshua Schnell

Ike Pigott

TWITTER'S TEN RULES: Be human. Be humane. Be yourself. Be interesting. Be brief. Share. Laugh. Listen. Learn. Repeat.

July 10, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Linda Mills liked this

Robert Scoble

Everyone is giving me heck in London about how I'm a FriendFeed cheerleader. Truth is, I don't understand FriendFeed either. Talk to me:

July 6, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Bo Stern, Diana Lewis, Ton Zijp and 46 other people liked this

LOL! A FriendFeed Cheerleader! - Matt Ruiz

167 more comments

I don't understand it either - Doubledown_inSL

If you don't understand FriendFeed then I must be really lost - Susan Beebe

Of course these are the same people who told me three years ago "Twitter is lame" so not sure I should listen to them. - Robert Scoble

Robert- what don't you understand? - Brett Kelly

Gimme an F! Gimme an R!.... - Jeremy Brooks

friendfeed will make sense a year from now - Doubledown_inSL

Robert - listen to your gut. :) - Matt Ruiz

Robert wants to know how to gain 100,000 followers in 3 minutes - Doubledown_inSL

Well that is a bit of a problem, it has a steep learning curve! - TobiasVerhoog.com

Brett: I don't understand how FriendFeed will beat Facebook. ;-) - Robert Scoble

friendfeed's learning curve looks like heaving boobies - Doubledown_inSL

Brett: and I don't understand why being a cheerleader for something is bad, especially when I'm right. - Robert Scoble

And when you shake the iPhone app, it updates! (wait... no... that's not FriendFeed....) - Linda Mills

FriendFeed is like the new geocities - Doubledown_inSL

Does Friendfeed have to beat Facebook? - Kim Landwehr

Anyway, this is what happens when I get drunk with traveling geeks and Paul Carr. :-) - Robert Scoble

Sounds like everyone in London is going to be viewing this conversation soon. So, don't wonder, just look. - Martha

If the web tool is adding value to what you are doing, nothing wrong in being a cheerleader for it - Tejas Patel

London is asleep right now - Doubledown_inSL

Martha: I don't understand how to make Paul Carr understand. :-) - Robert Scoble

Doubledown: London is just getting started right now. - Robert Scoble

Robert, if you were a FriendFeed thought leader we would all cheer. - Dutch Driver

Let's all cheer for Friendfeed. Gooooo Friendfeed! - Asgeir

I don't understand it either, but I still love it. - Oracio

I really WANT to like friendfeed more, just seems good in theory though - Doubledown_inSL

Oracio: I'd say something sexist right now, but even though I've had too many glasses of wine I won't. - Robert Scoble

Surely cheerleaders don't really understand what they're drawing people's attention to anyway ;-) - littlegingerkid from iPod

The only reason I really have a FriendFeed account is to talk to you. Facebook has commoditized just about all the other 'niche social services' into a familiar interface for the masses. So as far as 'friend feeding' is concerned, there's really only one site shaping up to matter the most — and that's Facebook. For that reason, I don't see FriendFeed reaching past the early adopter crowd anytime soon. - Colin Anawaty

I've been trying to figure it out. As a result liking it more. That's normal. - Bob Morse

Robert lets go home , dont drink so much there :-))) - Johni Fisher

Robert: Don't let me stop you. Ha. - Oracio

You could be called worse things than cheerleader! - Rene, Pro Button Pusher

Hey Robert - need any London restaurant recommendations? - Patrick Jordan

Colin: based on the reactions I've had in London I think the mainstream is coming within six months. This is how people used to treat me when I cheerleaded Twitter. - Robert Scoble

I just love logging on seeing interesting things role before my eyes :) - Asgeir

Patrick: no, we were eating dinner at the top of the BT Tower tonight and it was awesome. Even if I had to take some ribbing about my love of FriendFeed. - Robert Scoble

its a feel good kinda place.... - Bob DeMarco

Friendfeed wont be the shiznit until I can invite all of you into my vampire mob guild - Doubledown_inSL

Patrick: I'll post photos later, gotta go back to the bar cause Rocky is calling me. :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert: perhaps you're right. I like some of FriendFeeds features and they are uniquely different, but is it enough? I'm not convinced... yet. - Colin Anawaty

Its a social data sharing/discovery space to me. - Darren Stuart

London feels good, especially after some wine. :-) - Robert Scoble

Hi everybody, FF newbie doing his first "chat" comment here... cheering since a couple of weeks, though - Fritz Feger

meanwhile....i never saw the comments box move this fast - Bob DeMarco

we're all newbs - Doubledown_inSL

Zachary....i'll share the royalties with you - Bob DeMarco

FriendFeed smells like new car - Doubledown_inSL

FriendFeed is a community. 'Nuff said. - Jorge Escobar

Zachary: thank you, I just passed 43,000 today. Wild. Where did all these nobodies come from? Jorge: shhhh, quiet, you don't want the celebrities to hear you, do you? - Robert Scoble

poor me...still in the blue nowhere of freindfeed - Bob DeMarco

HAHA! You do read me, Mr. Scoble ;) - Jorge Escobar

I still don't figure how to find unread comments in between all that masses of text... any hints? - Fritz Feger

Feger..just read every fifth one - Bob DeMarco

Love to know how many people on this thread aren't techies. Bet it's close to one. That's counting me. - Jeff Strank

Oprah. Opera. Oprah. Opera. ... I'm confused - Doubledown_inSL

hahhaa - Bob DeMarco

Bob, that's what I do, but it's usually the important comments I'm missing by this - Fritz Feger

Just put this convo in its own tab. You do use a tab-enabled browser, right? - Jorge Escobar

i'm a non techie...which explains why i am in the blue nowhere of friend feed - Bob DeMarco

Techie too... - Fritz Feger

Who's Operah? - Jorge Escobar

People didn't just join for Oprah, they also joined for her KFC coupon too! - Doubledown_inSL

oprah's big sister - Bob DeMarco

Wine... You have not seen the real London before you been to a few bars drinking Stout :)) - Asgeir

this is kinda like Plato in 1974 - Bob DeMarco

Asgeir: we've had stout. We've had whiskey. We've had wine. What else is on the menu? - Robert Scoble

No Ale, Robert? - Jorge Escobar

scoble...a few more and you will understand FriendFeed - Bob DeMarco

why must FriendFeed "beat" Facebook? - Brett Kelly

@Natalia, you already can see him in a surfer suit, no need to imagine - Jorge Escobar

Jorge: I have had ale too! And some cider. I'll post photos later and you'll see why this all matters. - Robert Scoble

Zachary...that explains it...nobody likes to listen - Bob DeMarco

That sounds more like it. Welcome to London. - Asgeir

Brett: so that Paul Carr will stop giving me heck about being a FriendFeed cheerleader. - Robert Scoble

is this the end? - Bob DeMarco

yeah..i am in the blue nowhere over there also - Bob DeMarco

Was nice to meet you and Rocky last night Robert. Albeit only for a minute as you were about to leave the bar :) - Simon Wicks

What matters is that I don't have access to your secret room, Robert. I hate it. :) - Jorge Escobar

Bob: hopefully this isn't the end. But if it was the end I wouldn't be posting. My wife would be and it wouldn't be happy. - Robert Scoble

Robert - have Paul ask a question on the site through you and compare it to what he might see if he poses the same question through you on Twitter and Facebook. That might convince him. - Martha

Jorge: have I met you face-to-face? Only people I've met face-to-face get access to @secretscoble. - Robert Scoble

Martha: that's an unfair fight. - Robert Scoble

I know the rules, Robert. Doesn't mean I don't hate it. - Jorge Escobar

scoble...go over to my friendfeed...meet my fact and send me the key - Bob DeMarco

opps face - Bob DeMarco

You didn't explain that the fight needed to be fair - just effective. - Martha

I am also a Friendfeed cheerleader :). It simply rocks. Cool features, super stable. It's the best - alfred westerveld

Jorge: you just gotta meet me and buy me a beer. :-) - Robert Scoble

i wanna be a FriendFeed cheerleader - Bob DeMarco

Damn. How many have you had Robert? LOL - Jorge Escobar

Zachary...exactly - Bob DeMarco

Jorge: I lost count. - Robert Scoble

Twitter is lame... but I still wouldn't listen to them :) - Tim Hoeck

i wish i had a bigger screen like all you techies - Bob DeMarco

:: Doing hypnosis to Robert :: Tomorrow, when you wake up, you'll remember we met the day before. Snap! - Jorge Escobar

wooooooooooo - Bob DeMarco

Bob: I'm stuck in London with a 15-inch MacBook, no big screen. Jorge: funny! - Robert Scoble

Someone Please make the bad mental image of Scoble in a cheerleader's uniform go away!!! - Sean Reiser

And I haven't had anything to drink - Jorge Escobar

yeah...well i am stuck in delray beach - Bob DeMarco

Gooooo FF! Robert is like the captain of the football team here. - Tracy Benham

Robert..do you look like the Hulk when you are drinking? - Bob DeMarco

Robert, indeed it's time to change the avatar - Jorge Escobar

don't do that...i won't be able to find you..since i can't get in the secret room - Bob DeMarco

Zachary...do you think if i get a cool image like Robert I could pop out of the blue nowhere? - Bob DeMarco

I think Robert is a goner. He must be snoring, his face in the counter. - Jorge Escobar

Bob: you don't want to see me angry. You either Jorge. :-) - Robert Scoble

is the ripley guy here yet? - Bob DeMarco

Any plans for Cambridge? - Philip Baddeley from iPhone

Philip: survival as we punt on the Cam. - Robert Scoble

Oooo... my knees are trembling, Robert. LoL. BTW, you should be Qik'ing this right now. - Jorge Escobar

Jorge: no we shouldn't. :-) - Robert Scoble

HAHAHA - Jorge Escobar

could be jail - Bob DeMarco

A great time to bond with your community, and you throw it away? - Jorge Escobar

Zachary: in London I'm carrying an iPhone and a Nokia N79. I also have a Palm Pre but it doesn't work here cause Sprint didn't turn on the International plan. - Robert Scoble

This has to bee the fastest amount of comments on any post on Friendfeed - Asgeir

Jorge: have a beer and bond. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

just shows you what can happen when people get lonely - Bob DeMarco

Will do, after I process all the wine I consumed over the weekend ;) - Jorge Escobar

Bob: I'm not lonely. Just had lots of wine and beer. - Robert Scoble

i meant those of us that are not drinking and in london - Bob DeMarco

Bob: that's no excuse. Have a beer and find someone to share it with! - Robert Scoble

Robert, when's the next time you're in NYC? - Jorge Escobar

Jorge: I want to visit again soon. Lots of cool stuff happening in NYC, but not sure when I'll be there next. - Robert Scoble

London England - Mark

AKA Best City in the World - Mark

Zachary: come on! Would I really be talking about London, Canada? - Robert Scoble

Aight. I'm right here in Union Square. Have a great time and hopefully we'll meet P2P. - Jorge Escobar

test - Bob DeMarco

Zachary: no wine country around here. Just a great city. - Robert Scoble

London is great at night, but try working there thru the week. AWFUL - Mark

Be back later, gotta upload photos. - Robert Scoble

The man who tires of London, tires of Life. - Ian May

what the heck..friendfeed through me out - Bob DeMarco

Now that was tasteless - Jorge Escobar

I think someone needs to photoshop your icon and change the hulk hands to some green cheerleading pompoms - Tamara

Zach: Plenty wrong with London, Ontario Canada. Its exactly too far from Toronto, Niagara, Windsor and anywhere else you would want to go to do something on a Friday night and get home at a decent hour :) - Luke Kilpatrick

How did this conversation go from FF to alcohol consumption to where the best city in the world is? Ahhh, its because of number 2! Have fun all! :-) - Brandi Madrid

I think this is true - Bruce.d.Stewart

Ian May I love that: he man who tires of London, tires of Life. Very true - Asgeir

It was Samule Johnson who said "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life" in 1777 - Ian May

Robert, I'm not sure the cheerleader outfit would suit you... :-) Cheers in the UK. - Ken Stewart | ChangeForge

Ken: I can cheer "rah, rah, rah" along with the best of them. :-) - Robert Scoble

You mean that Oprah isn't a web browser named after a web browser? ;) /me ducks - Tyson Key

Scobleizer in Lycra.. .I don't think so :) - Rhys Amos

Mind you, Samuel Johnson seemed to be a man of much higher intellect, than Boris, who is a bumbling, bungling what-ho public schoolboy twat type. - Ian May

I think the little white socks are hot, Robert. - Oldengrey (Jay)

Tyson, LOL! - Ken Stewart | ChangeForge

Pompoms? ;-) - iconic88

Damn I wish I had some pompoms! *giggle* Give me an "F" "F" it again! What's "F F" stand for? FriendFeed! Robert! Those gloves in your avatar should be able to shake things up enough! - Arleen Boyd

FF is cool! - Randy Allen Bishop

It's not a food bank? - John D Reasor

FF has way less spam, and supports actual conversations, choir - Ian Orekondy

+1 Ian. The signal-to-noise ratio is much easier to handle on FF than on other sites. (Yes, @Twitter, we're talking about _you_. Again.) - Bill Sodeman

Bill, yes, for sure! - Myrna

Robert, @secretscoble? Why not just DM. Hey are you going to sleep tonight? - Myrna

Everyday, I discover the power and flexibility of Friendfeed. - Ashish

Myrna: yes I'm going to sleep now. Enough craziness for one evening. - Robert Scoble

I wouldn't say you were a cheerleader, more a bell ringer for the service - Joe Dawson

Growing up on IRC and AIM, somehow Twitter seemed natural and familiar, while Friendfeed has taken me outside of my comfort zone. Which is exciting! - Mike Chelen

It's kinda weird. So what is Friendfeed about? It seems to me that everyone just subcribes and never does anything else. - Chip

Robert, you're *always* a cheerleader for something. When I first started reading you, it was TabletPC (happy days!). And there's nothing wrong with that - you're a natural enthusiast. The only time it ever gets to be a problem is when you forget that whatever you're being enthusiastic about isn't the right way for everyone. - Ian Betteridge

You are doing with FriendFeed what you do with anything you love, talk about it all the time, get people engaged, then stand back and let them figure out how to use it for themselves. Whats to understand? ^_^ - Dan owns Comicsforge.com

Great. Now I've got a mental image of Scoble in a short skirt and pedal pushers, carrying pom-pons. (You don't really have the legs for this look, by the way.) - John Craft

John, that's an image I really didn't want at lunch time :) - Ian Betteridge

Oh, those whingeing Poms in ol' Mother England...ignore them and keep on cheerleading. - George Hall (Australia)

How do I block all of John Craft's thoughts from making visuals in my head? :-) - James Schipper

Oguz Serdar to Oguz's feed, Twitter, Ideas & Inspiration

6 Gorgeous Twitter Visualizations - http://mashable.com/2009...

June 30, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Mrs.Hiromi, Brad Williamson, 芸窗 and 4 other people liked this

Robert Scoble

Interesting analysis of Twitter's Suggested User List, which @timoreilly objects to in comments: http://twittercism.com/suggest...

June 23, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Iván Abrego, Rui Pereira, polou/indigo_bow and 59 other people liked this

Scoble, do you feel you're should have been on that featured twitter users list? Or do you feel you deserve a time on it? - Doubledown_inSL

80 more comments

Interesting. But how did the people on SUL get there on the first place? - Alex M.

Well said Robert. - Leo Laporte

Newt Gingrich?? Why *is* Newt Gingrich on the SUL? - RobinDotNet

I would think having Newt Gingrich on the list would invalidate the entire list. I mean, really. - RobinDotNet

Doubledown_inSL: I don't want to be on any default list by a platform vendor that I didn't earn my way onto and that YOU can't earn your way onto it either. This is not a meritocracy. It's a royalty system. One that picks stars and gifts them huge audiences. - Robert Scoble

Ahmed: Twitter picked their favorite people and removed anyone that they saw as a threat to their future business model. Me for talking about friendfeed too much. Leo for complaining about the name. Calacanis for being a pimp. Kawasaki for being too obvious about building his business (Alltop) on top of it. Shall I go on? - Robert Scoble

Doubledown_inSL: you need to take a look at the original conversation if you haven't already... http://ff.im/4iPSZ - travispuk

Robert: I see - Alex M.

reminds me of way clubs in NYC let people in #1.Star Power (BIG NAME), #2 Beauty #3 Wealth - courtney benson

one thing would be interesting to map - how many of the people on the list have ties to kevin rose... i am betting some interesting trends would show up. - Allen Stern

Courtney: You forgot women to men ratio! ;) - travispuk

Travis, right! - courtney benson

Allen: Leo and I both have ties to Kevin Rose and aren't on the list. - Robert Scoble

Media has always been star-driven... so one of the measures of success of any star-maker is the editorial judgment and wisdom of their anointed ones. Same in Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Nashville, Bollywood... print, radio, tv, movies... it's inescapable... and, Robert, no matter whose list you do or don;t make it onto, you are already a MAJOR star ;-) - Fred Davis

robert - im talking about "in his posse" - justine is(was?), gary, etc. it's something that I've wondered about for a while. - Allen Stern

It's the Web 2.0 Mafia ;-) - Jesse Stay

Fred: thank you (for those who don't know, Fred is one of the co-founders of Wired Magazine and a star in his own right). But I wasn't gifted my "stardom" by a media platform. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Fred, agreed that Robert is top notch but so is Leo, Guy and Jason as well as Kevin - courtney benson

Allen: if you said it's "San Francisco gadflys" or "insiders" then I think you're correct. It's just that Kevin is one that's very visible in that circle. Funny, Howard Lindzen and Jeff Pulver and Fred Wilson are investors in Twitter and they aren't on it. I think all three of them deserve it too. I wonder why they aren't gifted a spot? - Robert Scoble

Robert: surely having investors on the SUL would be a little too inbred, even for twitter? - travispuk

Travis: probably. I sure would love to see the thinking that goes on behind the scenes when they decide this list. By the way, I've heard from someone close to the Twitter team that complaining about the list gets you added to a black list where you never will get onto it. Which, funny enough, freed me to complain even more. :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert: I guess it would be a little liberating knowing that technically you could not offend them more than you already have. ;) - travispuk

Dave Winer is very quiet tonight. - Mark

Mark: I think he's traveling. - Robert Scoble

I do like his posts. I wish Dave contributed more on Friendfeed though. I think he is a little reluctant because he doesn't want to evangelise FF at all. He isn't interested in getting people from twitter to here, he considers that FF's problem and not something he should freely help towards. I suppose he is the opposite of you Scoble in that regard. - Mark

wow, I met Steve Johnson recently @MarketingProfs B2B and I did not connect his real life self with the Twitter suggested list :D - Valeria Maltoni

also, looks like the editors at People magazine picked who they put on the list :) - Valeria Maltoni

I swear I typed that before I saw People magazine on the list! - Valeria Maltoni

Robert, I think you're engaging in one of the oldest forms of media self-promotion here: attacking others as a way of drawing attention to yourself. I like you a lot and you're generally very positive. But when you start claiming that twitter "took you off the list" because you promote Friendfeed too much, I think you're playing the same kind of media game that led talk radio and its ilk astray. It doesn't speak well of you. - Tim O'Reilly

I wondering if there has been anything showing whether being on the SUL effects a business bottom line, if it does or starts to I definitely can see a problem. - Kim Landwehr

Just guessing but I find it really hard to believe that half the "stars" on the SUL actually write their own tweets. Betting it is all run by a bunch of PR flacks. - Dave Hodson

Tim: you keep making this about me but I am far from the only one hurt by this list. But you are right and it demonstrates just how many strings are attached here even for people who are not on the list. We can't even discuss the list and how anti-community and how it sets up a corruptible system without looking like a selfish jerk. But you forgot one thing: I will not accept a spot on... more... - Robert Scoble

Tim: but I have written my last word on this. You are right that it serves me no good to talk about this and waste my energy on it. It's just shocking to me that you are defending something that isn't a meritocracy. I was expecting you to be the first one to decry this system of royalty and corruptible systems. The fact that you're all for it and, worse, saying I'm doing this just for self promotion, makes me sad. Really sad. - Robert Scoble

You are out of order O'Reilly. - Mark

Robert, you definitely earned your "stardom" but don't forget you also had a helpful platform as a Microsoft house blogger. - Michael Markman

Thats a pretty weak point, Michael. - Mark

Michael: and for that I had to interview and win my job (which wasn't easy). Also I had thousands of readers per day BEFORE getting that job and being a Microsoft employee didn't get me on a default list that was included in a platform service. I also didn't get an unfair advantage against other Microsoft employees and Bill Gates didn't "pick" the winners -- the marketplace did (when I... more... - Robert Scoble

Speaking as a non-celebrity looking in: I'm really bugged by this whole thing. First of all, Robert, I didn't need a SUL to follow you. Or Leo or Tim or iJustine or TechCrunch or anyone else on my list. The SUL means nothing to me. I never even looked into it ( I've been on twitter since 2006 way before the SUL was in place) until this whole SUL scandal started coming up. I understand... more... - Lise

Obviously the SUL is a bad idea all around, or at least the way it is implemented. I can see why they want it; most likely to help with retention of new users. Most people sign up and have no idea what to do. Unfortunately it puts Twitter, those on the SUL, and the people who point out what a poor system it is in a bad spot. There is no way Twitter can say they would be fair and... more... - W_B_K

Robert, hey, I know you weren't gifted your stardom, you earned it by being RELENTLESS about doing your thing, and doing it in public forums (whatever the forum), i.e.: sharing!!! - Fred Davis

I think, ideally, SUL's would be personalized, based on your interests, your profile(s), your friends, FOF's, etc. We'd all get a different one, that was (hopefully) more tailored to each of us. The web is about micromedia, and the one-SUL-fits-all approach is so mass media that it doesn't fit in very well... as this whole discussion (and the many others on the SUL topic) underscore. - Fred Davis

http://friendfeed.com/davew... - Mark

Fred: I agree and its a great point. This is almost what Facebook and LinkedIn do to recommend connections. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

I thought LinkedIn had a similar issue a few years ago with the number of connections and they capped the visible connections at 500 and evened the playing field. I like that approach. But it seems that acquiring twitter followers is baked into the twitter dna and they would never create a visible cap at 500. - Jim Posner

Robert, I love you to death man, but why do you waste so much time and energy on this topic? I certainly don't care who is on the list, it just doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Make you own SUL if you feel others deserve to be heard, you have the webspace and the star power to do it, so just do it. Big hug dude. - Rob Fahrni

Fred: I'd love a system like that. Sort of like Alltop or WeFollow.com. That would have been the right thing to do. Jim: exactly. Lise: there is a disconnect between those who do this as a business and those who do it just for fun. Audience size means money. Let me know how you feel when someone at work gets a huge raise without deserving it/earning it (especially worse if you've been... more... - Robert Scoble

Rob: I do have my own SUL. It's http://www.friendfeed.com/scoblei... and everyone on it earns their way on it every day by posting great content. - Robert Scoble

So all those sales people and "MAKE MONEY WITH TWITTER" people -- do they make money off of me if I don't follow them back? - RobinDotNet

I like what Fred said. It really would enhance the service. Tumblr has the right approach, at least in part, on the micro-level with Tumblarity. Each user has their own benchmark. In terms of twitter's SUL, it's fine, there's nothing wrong with it. Twitter is a business. The SUL is one method they use to promote their brand. There's a level of inherent familiarity built into the brand... more... - Benjamin Taylor

PS It's great to see the hulk back, in solidarity. - Benjamin Taylor

So if there was a revolt and nobody followed people on the SUL who they thought should not be on the SUL, would Twitter leave them on the SUL? If you don't follow someone because they are on the SUL, is that as bad as following them because they are? (Did that make any sense, or did I not get enough sleep last night?) - RobinDotNet

Exactly Robert, you work your butt off, and I appreciate you for what you bring to the table. I guess being a z-lister, like myself, leaves me on the outside of understanding why this is such a hot topic? Does this really boil down to money? I'm not trying to be an ass here, I truly don't get why it's so important? - Rob Fahrni

Isn't it kind of like going to google and searching for something, and the first links that show up are the ones that people have paid google money to give them precedence, and they might not even necessarily be the best search result? - RobinDotNet

Chris, nicely put. - Rob Fahrni

Benjamin: you don't want to see me when I'm angry! Rob Fahrni: absolutely it's about money. And sex. And influence. And other kinds of measuring I won't mention here. :-) - Robert Scoble

Rob Fahrni: but mostly it's about building a platform that is a meritocracy. I'm an American. I don't like royalty based systems. If you can't earn your way onto this list I don't want any part of it. - Robert Scoble

Oh Robert, you're killin me man! - Rob Fahrni

Rob Fahrni: I'm in a good mood. Peter Himmelman is rocking! http://peterhimmelman.com/furious... Come join us, more fun than debating stupid lists. - Robert Scoble

Then Google isn't an exact model, because it IS a meritocracy, even though it's based on cash. - RobinDotNet

Robin: I've never paid to be on Google. So far Google is a pretty darn good example of a good platform vendor that lets the marketplace decide winners and losers. - Robert Scoble

Don't they have paid links that take precedence? I guess the diff is that though they might have that (and I don't know that they do for sure), they also show everybody else that fits the search criteria. - RobinDotNet

Robin: absolutely not. The paid links were always separate on Google and never were mixed in with the free ones. - Robert Scoble

Robert, I meant killin me in a good way, I'm grinning ear-to-ear. I see your point but doesn't all this attention, even negative attention, just add to the popularity of the thing you despise? You're one of the good guys Robert, don't let this drag you down. I think this is great fodder for a very long essay on Scobleizer. - Rob Fahrni

Got it. That's good to know. So the links that best meet the search criteria are on the top. Hmmm. Sounds like meritocracy to me. You're right, not like Twitter's SUL. - RobinDotNet

derikp: if my son is better at playing soccer and isn't chosen I'd certainly go and talk to the coach and plead his case. But we're not talking about soccer and anyway I'm done discussing this. Onward. I'm glad there are so many people who like royalty based systems and don't understand why meritocracies are important to defend. I guess that's how we end up with countries like Iran and China. Sigh. - Robert Scoble

Why should there be a list at all? Follow people that interest you. You make twitter what it is. - Ryan Gerritsen

Bill: You can not like the SUL and still use Twitter. Apples and oranges. I don't like many of the people who live in my town, yet I still live here and like the town. - Curt Mercadante

oh when will lame twitter SUL get corrected?! *sigh* - Susan Beebe from BuddyFeed

And, by the way, it seems like the SUL is being used like the same "mass follower" tools that the Twitter folks are seeking to diminish by killing the accounts of those who use them. - Curt Mercadante

Reason I still use Twitter, I still get more responses from my Tweets than in FF. Yet I tend to be more engaged in FF these days but I think the FF celebs usually spark the most engaging threads and the rest of us are trying to get that engagement from our posts. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

manielse: there's no audience more engaged than one you build yourself by being of service to them. It's tough work and I'll be watching and engaging! - Robert Scoble

Sorry I wasn't complaining, just saying many of us built that in Twitter and find it a little tougher to get traction on FriendFeed with our posts. I think tools like WeFollow, Twellow (and even #followfriday) help build relevant audiences easier. You can even argue that SUL is even a good starting place for n00bs. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

manielse: yeah, the eco system that's built up around Twitter is quite powerful. On the other hand here all you need to do is follow someone active and they bring other people into your view (every time I click "like" or comment on someone's items I push those items into your view, for instance) so finding new people to follow here is much nicer and much less of a competition. Plus you find new voices that aren't on any list a lot faster here, I've found. - Robert Scoble

Manielse, ditto Robert S - Myrna

Maybe they could reward early twitter users with a day on the list for every month on twitter before 08. If new social networks would promise props in the future I could live without twitter. - Greg Birch

Although the SUL is obviously distorting of the natural community growth of Twitter, and does not really fulfill the functions @Ev and @Biz intended, "power users" not on the SUL who criticize it should know: they sound really vain, chippy, and silly. - Jason Pontin

I don't care who is on the Twitter SUL, and I pay no attention to it. I look for the Twitter feeds that are most interesting to me -- they are not difficult to find, with a bit of searching. I don't understand the preoccupation with that list -- like everything on the Internet, it is simple to route around or ignore entirely. - Sean McBride

Jason: we know that. If I lived in fear of looking vain, chippy, or silly, I'd just stay off the Internet! :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert, I do not know you or Tim but I do follow and have great respect for you both. IMHO (I am an amateur when compared to you guys), Tim was not saying that he supports the SUL. Do I agree with his comment? Nope. Do I like the SUL? No. But it does happen that if you criticise a list while you mention that you have not been included it can sound like you are "jealous" even if you are not and you do have good reasons for not liking the list... so this can be a tricky one! - Pablo Melchor

Really, the personalized way is the only good way... I mean, sheesh, Twitter recommends people like Ashlee Simpson to me, ferchrissakes! So most of the people on the SUL are a total waste for me, and I suppose for most people, when you get right down to it... if I had some $ to burn I'd get some outside research firm like Insight Express to scope out how the SUL is actually viewed,... more... - Fred Davis

I still think most people find suggested users through word-of-mouth and their own social circles. That's the only way to get the people you really want to follow based on your interests. I've also found that using hashtags properly will get the kind of users you want to follow to you before you get to them. - Fleagle

Jorge Escobar to Jorge's feed, Social Media

Careful Everyone Using Facebook: Your Data is About to Become Public - http://jungleg.com/2009...

June 24, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Alex Schleber, chrisofspades, Shane and 2 other people liked this

"This, of course, is one more move from Facebook to become an open social platform much like Twitter and FriendFeed are. However, one of the differentiating things about Facebook was their level of privacy control, so a lot of unsuspecting users will suddenly see questionable content being wide open." - Jorge Escobar from Bookmarklet

funny how things come around. you could say that early on, facebook's primary feature was its privacy controls. now they're about to default to public. - chrisofspades

You can change the default setting of your Publisher Control from the Privacy page using the following steps: Select “Privacy Settings” from the Settings dropdown at the top of any Facebook page. Click “Profile.” Choose your setting from the Publisher Control Default drop-down menu. Select “Save Changes” at the bottom of the page. - Jorge Escobar

Jason Calacanis

excellent post on work/family balance http://steveblank.com/2009...

June 20, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

blackysky, Stephen Smyth and Linda Mills liked this

Hugh MacLeod

Wondering if anyone, having read my book, now plan on buying it for other people?

June 20, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Linda Mills liked this

Robert Scoble

I see there's tons of new people here on friendfeed participating. How do I know that? Because there are tons of white icons in comments. That means I am not following you yet. Just a month ago all I saw were blue icons. That's cool and welcome to all the newbies!

June 18, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Tyson Key, Robert Freeze, Steffan Antonas and 72 other people liked this

I'm not really a newbie, per se. Been on here a while, just haven't commented much, Robert. - John Fox

48 more comments

i am trying to bring some of my tech/faith minded friends on here over the next couple days. - Tony

you da man Robert always interseting... ha ha from Sydney australia - Chris Henderson

John: well, you now are a blue icon. :-) Thanks. - Robert Scoble

good to hear Robert. we needed some new blood. - Carlos Ayala

Build it and they will come. "Supply Creates Demand" - Stephen Pickering

Robert: Thanks for the follow. You completely rock. I love your insight into all things social media. - John Fox

FriendFeed should offer something to people who join from Twitter. Perhaps a delicious pastry or a fetching t-shirt. - Brett Kelly

Using FF more because I've figured out I can use Twitter for news ... and FriendFeed for actual conversation :) - Curt Mercadante

Curt: bing! - Robert Scoble

Curt: ooh, nice distinction. - Tony

Robert, Bing is something entirely different altogether ;-) Welcome to all the new faces! - FFing Enigma

Curt has got it on! I stick by my complaint that that it's not actual discussion, just comments. Discussion would entail threads, + better management when discussions get too overwhelming at 50 comments. - Malcolm Bastien

welcome x - David Lloyd

@malcolm how can you make that assertion with such limited participation here? i disagree with your comment...it is the "actual discussion". i think we may have successfully redefined the terminology. - Carlos Ayala

And friend feed new people - Avoid this link like the plague - http://ff.im/3EcXi - Brent - Yes I am

How's that nap going, Robert? - Brent - Yes I am

Thanks to my new iPhone I can now be more active and addicted to Twitter and friendfeed. - John Ford

Brent: it's not, someone just invited me to a private party. Sigh. - Robert Scoble

This proves the point that you are sub'd to the entire base. Interesting... - anna sauce

Should I be offended that you're not following me yet :( - John Meagher

follow the white rabbit, mr. scoble. (me) :P - Oguz Serdar

We're proud newbies too (on friendfeed) - make our icon blue to you - HippyGourmet

As long as Oprah doesn't come to visit, welcome n00bs! - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

anna: actually I'm not. Most people don't participate. I only subscribe to those who participate. And even of those I only follow a small number. For instance, I only follow those who speak English. There are tons on friendfeed who don't speak English. - Robert Scoble

First day on FriendFeed, glad to connect Robert. - Gabe Taviano

Yeah I haven't been here in a while. Everything has changed. It isn't as small as it used to be (I was here right after it started). - Jake (aka Jawee)

I'm a newbie to Friendfeed as a result of the interview with Don Tapscott. Thanks! - Brian Ostrovsky

Jake I'm with you. I left Friend feed for a very long time because there was nothing here. The times they have been a changing. - Brent - Yes I am

I'm still trying to figure out how to really make use of this other than just lurking. - John Meagher

Friendfeed is for lurking - Charbax

There is a video that Johhny Worthington made which might answer that question mark, on participating, if I can find it, John. - Brent - Yes I am

Yeah, but there's got to be more to it than *just* lurking - John Meagher

Twitter's for lurking and blasting links, FF is for conversation and community engagement. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Brent: is this the video you meant? http://friendfeed.com/jworthi... - John Meagher

You start some interesting discussions here, I'll have to try & comment more. - Steve de Mena

Thanks for the welcome. Looking forward to contributing to the conversation ;) - art jones

Yes that is it John - Brent - Yes I am

I totally agree Mark....I do lurk on Twitter with an occasional tweet, but love the "conversations" on FF, and find that I have been participating more and more lately. - Bonnie Foster

Sometimes it takes a while to catch on. Friendfeed is much more interactive than the others. If yo have interesting friends they post interesting stuff. No filtering necessary. The spammers do not get followed. - Alan Morris

I am not really a FF newbie. I started with a private feed, shared with some friends some times ago. Then, Brome convinced me to turn my account into public. I then started to comment in english... And here I am! - DAL

I was asking to myself why there are blue and white icons on comments.. I have tons of whites though. - Jacque

I never knew any blue comment, maybe I should follow more people and start commenting - Hendra Saputra from Nambu

twit, twit, twit, what more can I say - Cace Ackerson

Robert, perhaps it's also related to Friendfeed being picked up in Feedburner count? - Brian Wallace

FriendFeed rocks the house and i am totally happy with it!! Have to say: I luv it :) - Ronald

FriendFeed does rock, but it is very much a geeks tool. My wife has gotten into twitter but no luck with friendfeed - Chris Patterson

Tip of the hat to you too - Bret Rowe

Yeah, I'm been a lurker on here on FF for the past age and am only getting "in to" it in the last while... Have to turn a lot more of those whites to blue :) - Paul OFlaherty

Thread hijack: Worst Photoshop of a Woman ever? http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitter... - David Lloyd

phil baumann

OK FFers: millions of posts out there on "how to get people to Twitter", etc. Now FriendFeed's turn: How do you turn peeps onto FriendFeed? If you had to "sell' FF, how would you do it? Have you done it before? Any success? I find peeps on Twitter have a hard time with FF, but I think if they'd understand it better, they may convert. Tips please...

June 9, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

anna sauce, Thierry R. Andriamirado, Manuel Arroyo and 19 other people liked this

After seeing all the hashtag chats, it's obvious tweeters need a space for focused conversations to transpire outside of the twitterverse and FF seems to be the perfect remedy. Twitter's great for generating network momentum, but FF offers greater conversation imo. - phil baumann

16 more comments

My issue is this: I have to read tweets TWICE if I use FriendFeed. Do you switch over only for tweets you want to comment on or follow more in depth? - NNR

No, I'm just referring to conversations started on FF (made known on Twitter). The conversation takes place on FF. Unless people have their settings to port all comments into Twitter (which is insane), nothing would go to Twitter unless it's intended to. - phil baumann from email

I would show them my boobs. - SteVe C

I guess I just don't get it then. How do you even start a convo on FF and make it known on Twitter? Write a blog post, Phil! Clearly we need enlightenment here. :) - NNR

I've been showing how you do this for a year now. I start a conversation here, that shoves over to Twitter, and because it includes the URL at the end of the statement, you can use that to drive people over here to have a conversation. - Robert Scoble

I guess I should be suitably rebuked, yet because I'm one of the few people who don't follow you these gems of wisdom just failed to change my life. - NNR

Megan - Sorry for any confusion. I'm referring to the the weekly chats (like #hcsm). Rather than having the conversation take place on Twitter (with hashtags), the chats can be had over on FF instead. The administrator would set up the conversation in FF and just direct participants to the FF url for the convo. ... Yes, I'll write up something to clarify and expand. :) - phil baumann

Robert - yes, thank you. But I'm tying to offer others some more "sizzle" for FF. I find that many peeps on Twitter come to FF and kind of shrug their shoulders. I suspect they look at FF and say "why can't I just use Twitter - it's easier". That's what I'm trying to work with. - phil baumann

Collect all your online stuff and friends in one place, comment on all of it in one place. Nuff said. - David Chartier

FF has conversations! FF has recommendations! FF has groups! - Ric Johnson

I can't get the twitter peeps unplugged from the twitter matrix either! My efforts seem to be met with .... nothing. *Sigh* - Jannifer @wordsforliving

I'm totally willing to experiment with "new" social media stuff (Phil knows this). Main Q: is there a way to avoid reading all my tweets twice? Not all my Twitter followers are on FF, so I read them on Twitter and then some here again. Major PITA. Solution? - NNR

The twitter matrix.... heh heh. - Sean

This is a challenge, I keep coming up against. I'm still not always sure how to explain twitter. People really get hugely different values out of how they use it, and I know FF is the same way. This is definitely a challenge I'd like more answers to and we'll try to help out more in the process by writing out some thoughts on it. For now, just keep using it and demonstrating value and eventually others will see that. - Robert D. Fraser

Just yesterday I explained FF to a fellow FB/Twitter user as a social media aggregator: one-stop shopping for all your social tools. I signed up last year and fired it up on Facebook yesterday. Since I'm not on Twitter like I used to be, this is a way for me to keep up with some of the Twitter happenings - some, but not all. - Corinne L

We're using FFeed to manage at narrative based project, Purefold. Here's a group [http://friendfeed.com/purefol...] and video [http://ff.im/3TSkP] explaining how we are using it. We develop lots of FFeed groups as micro-verticals for brand sponsored product development and narrative frameworks, which we'll be introducing these shortly. - zeroinfluencer

One of our key interests in using FriendFeed is it's real-time aggregation and api; we'll using that to develop realtime storytelling for film productions. I think attracting people to the FFeed platform will be through inventive uses of the system - many don't understand how the api is a fantastic root for querying the web - users here are doing a lot of 'total web' noise refining. - zeroinfluencer

Chris Brogan

So fricken sick of being used like a retweet robot. I just snapped on someone for it.

June 13, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Rabemananjara Florent, Chris Luzader, Thierry R. Andriamirado and 37 other people liked this

whaddya mean, "retweet robot"? - Ted Bradford II

45 more comments

They DM me and ask me to retweet their crap all the time, but never talk to me like a human. - Chris Brogan

Wouldn't un-following them be a more cool-headed response? that way they can't DM you anymore, right? - Chris Heath

ah. yeah, a bit rude isn't it? The audacity of the request are amazing sometimes. So look, if you snapped on someone for it... well, they ought to have the social wherewith all to know that's rude. One wouldn't walk up to you at a dinner party with the same request. - Ted Bradford II

It's a sickness that's spreading throughout Twitter - Bwana ☠

maybe this is the controversy that Allen Stern is looking for this weekend? http://friendfeed.com/allenst... I can see the headlines now... "Brogan blows up over DM RT request - Play him off keyboard cat!" - Chris Heath

It's rarely the big guys (well, Gary V, but he's special). It's always the folks who see me as a number and not a dude. - Chris Brogan

you should open another account called, "retweet robot' for fun, and DM people to ask post their request there instead - zach

My sympathies, though in a sense it is a good problem to have. Your tweets have significant value, which others recognize (and try to take advantage of). - DGentry

Those kinds of requests mostly come from PR people, right? - jjprojects

I don't retweet at all on principle. I love it when others do, though. I can see how this would become a problem. BTW, Chris -- I see you as a dude, not a number. - Louis Gray

ack, sorry. i know i did this to you once. :( - although at least i did it in person and treated you like a human? - Que Sarah Sarah

...damn, i'd re-tweet, and re-friendfeed this, but I don't want to jacked up for doing it. @ChrisBrogan: perhaps, all the retweeters who are hitting you up feel like, with your help, they're standing on the shoulders of a social media giant. perhaps it's really a sign of respect. - .LAG liked that

hah - two names immediately came to mind - interesting that one gets special treatment :) - Allen Stern

you probably follow too many people. I understand you want to let people DM you, but it isn't realistic you're actually following them. Kinda robotic actually. Normal following counts would solve this problem for you, I bet. - Ivan Kirigin

Chris you are an awesome dude, this must be very frustrating for you. This (2010 Web / Real Time Web) is new territory and people have new principles, values, and morals to learn / adopt. You are a magnet, you create great value, you have uncommon authority people covert that. Some of them who haven't yet considered and adopted sound 2010 Web principles, values, and morals may behave... more... - Deano @ Byron New Media

I'm so thankful I've never done that to you! I really wish Twitter would fix the DM problem - maybe give us a choice whether to accept DMs or not. - Jannifer @wordsforliving

Interesting point! @iKirigin @Ed_Dale is adamant about having a minimal follow list while other guru's advise actively following people talking in your market. In this instance I can understand Ed's point. It's a tricky choice for those still building the critical mass of their tribe. @wordsforliving (Jannifer) that could be a solution, genuine DM is really handy at times even from... more... - Deano @ Byron New Media

Temper, temper, temper!!! :-) - Just2Stressed

Don't Blame you at all for being sick of it, or snapping on someone for it. It's all too common for people to do this though. One way that I've seen some people deal with it: every so often solicit things to retweet, and make it clear then to please not ask you to do this - you do it when you're feeling like it. Then hopefully only people who have some kind of news that urgently needs to be spread (i.e. twitter worm, FB worm, etc) call on you other times. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Anyone who directly solicits others to retweet what they write probably doesn't really mean very much of it anyway. - Randy Holloway

I can relate. :/ - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed

What Louis said :) - Micah

Chris, I understand. This kind of behavior is an etiquette breach in real life and online. The standard quid pro quo isn't inherent in the situation. You RT, but what do you get in return? In real life, you would be compensated or some other value-added service would be given to you. Scammers on Twitter want everything for free. They may value your reach but they disrespect you. I've... more... - Christine Cavalier

Thing is, I love retweeting good information that is helpful to my community and I support many causes that can benefit from my network. Where I get pissy is when people ONLY hit me in DM when they need me to retweet. - Chris Brogan

Ahh the old human trait, selfishness. Reminds me of a few of my 'friends' only talk when they want something. - Mo Kargas

The worst are those people who are sending mass-DMs and asking for Re-Tweets. That is major fail. - Curt Mercadante

Chris, right. I get mostly offended when it is a person I don't know at all. This is what is happening now with me: These spammy requestors get wise to my random RT policies, so they start to @ me and "engage" me in chitchat before they ask for another DM. By this point, their motivations are obvious. Without a solid policy, I have no way of avoiding this fake "buttering up." I'm sure... more... - Christine Cavalier

And thanks for bringing this up. The etiquette issue is good fodder for my blog. - Christine Cavalier

Louis, a Dude is a male horse :-P - Jesse Stay

I have a few people that do that. Funny thing is I know some of them in real life, but on Twitter, that's the only time I ever hear from them. It makes me think a lot less of them in real life. - Jesse Stay

What's equally funny is that people get very upset when I call them on it. If I say, "it feels like you only talk to me when you need something," they get all defensive and "well, excuse me, mister popular!" . But that's because people only see with their own lens. If they have 1000 followers, it's manageable. It's not as scalable. - Chris Brogan

But you are paid to do this, right? Why wouldn't people start treating you like that? - Thom Kennon

Excellent :-), You should snap at them. The re-tweet is stupid. If it's interesting you'll discuss the ideas with them. - Richard A.

I can't imagine asking someone to retweet something I'd posted. It's so... rude. - Steve Ellwood

I guess it's hard for me to believe someone would dm you and ask for such a thing. wow - Keith - @tsudo

@Thom - paid to do what? Use Twitter? Um, no. That'd be a gig! - Chris Brogan

@Thom, people are certainly not offering payment for retweets. That's why asking for the favor is so rude. Most people don't ask strangers for big favors like that. - Christine Cavalier

I know what you mean. - Wayne Sutton

Wasn't Mike Arrington suggesting that RTs = Currency, and people will start paying for them? If they're going to be so rude as to constantly ask just because people have lots of followers, shouldn't they offer to pony up some $$$ ?? - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Talking about pay per blog posts e.g. Izea, and yes, in some cases, I reckon Tweets feed this and become amplifiers of that model. - Thom Kennon

(I know you're asking Chris, but personally I don't like the being asked to RT so much - I don't mind when a person really needs a favor - it's the matter of someone asking me to RT something simply because of the number of followers - I can only imagine how much Chris must get) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

@Thom - I don't get paid to tweet, but if you want to start, I'm in. I'm on the Advisory board of Izea, but it's not my full time job or something. I'm on about 6 advisory boards and none of them pay unless those guys get bought. Then? I get a pony. : ) - Chris Brogan

@AriHerzog is right. I loathe the DM aspect more than not. - Chris Brogan

tell em chris, im ignoring about 1-2 dms a day now asking for a retweet. if you have to ask, i probably dont think its worth a RT ;) - sean percival

? Klaatu Barada Nikto!! ;O) - Harold Cabezas

having no following and no clout rocks. So say I. - Aron Michalski

Robert Llewellyn

Just posted the letter I sent to the BBC here. http://www.llewtube.com/wp... what do you think?

June 9, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Linda Mills liked this

Dan Klass

I've had a wireless device that would honk my horn and unlock my car doors for years. Haven't you?

June 8, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Linda Mills liked this

Robert Scoble

Here's some Apple searches on friendfeed (for Tweets, blogs, videos, etc):

June 8, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Susan Beebe, LPH™ and his dog P™, John E. Bredehoft and 30 other people liked this

Just a plain search for Apple keyword: http://friendfeed.com/search... - Robert Scoble

28 more comments

Just a plain search for WWDC keyword: http://friendfeed.com/search... - Robert Scoble

WWDC, but only display items with one like or more: http://friendfeed.com/search... - Robert Scoble

Apple, but only display items with one like or more: http://friendfeed.com/search... - Robert Scoble

Too bad FF searches aren't realtime. - Tinfoil 2.0

This one will display any items with Apple in either title or comments, but only if iPhone is in title and only if the item has one like or more: http://friendfeed.com/search... - Robert Scoble

This one will only display items with Apple in title and only if it has one like or more: http://friendfeed.com/search... - Robert Scoble

has anyone mashed up the live blogs from slashgear/gizmodo/ etc? - Courtney Engle

I wish I could share searches with you that use my lists of people. I don't think this one will work, for instance, but this is just for me. It shows any item that someone in my private tech newsmakers list makes with the name Apple in the title with one like or more: http://friendfeed.com/search... - Robert Scoble

Courtney: I haven't seen that done. - Robert Scoble

I looked on the live coverage pages - can't find an RSS out of their streams. would be a good thread to read - if anyone hunts down a work-around :-) Thanks Robert. - Courtney Engle

SCOBLE: Also check out http://almost.at/#wwdc - Mike Bracco

Mike: now you can see why I didn't go and stand in line. I have a better view from here. :-) - Robert Scoble

That stream from AlmostAt is flying by! P.S. Thanks for the heads up Robert. - Gregg Morris

really need desktop notifications for searches! - Jamie

Any iPhone formatted sites? as i'll be on the tube home when its on. Tried gdgt but its just the regular one which is a shame. Want a real site, which updates with pics and news instead of a tweet stream. - Simon Wicks

Thank you for sharing! This helps a lot ... FF is really powerful, but to discover the real power, i had to to follow you ... http://friendfeed.com/search... - Arne Krueger

gdgt will be a live feed when the keynote starts. At least that's the way it's been recently. - Robert Scoble

But it will still be like it is now, with the ads and everythig around it. Not all that stripped out. - Simon Wicks

Simon: friendfeed works great on an iPhone. I use it there all the time. - Robert Scoble

Is there a friendfeed app for the iPhone yet? - John Brazel

Yeah, will probably just end up staying here on FF. Just wanted a stream from one person, not the same notice being posted 20 times. - Simon Wicks

There's also a special Twistori page for WWDC. http://wwdc.twistori.com/ - Jared Mehle

Simon: well, once you see the news, turn off the iPhone and enjoy the rest of your day! :-) John: not an official one, but have a page designed for the iPhone's Safari browser, though. - Robert Scoble

Found an iPhone formatted one from Macworld http://www.macworld.com/article... strips out all the fluff when you view it on the phone. - Simon Wicks

@John Reynolds Thx! - John Brazel

http://feedmingle.com/rss/318 may be fun. it's a mashup of all the live blogs plus Robert's searches w/ 1+ likes - Courtney Engle

Scoble, cross-post these cool searches to the FF Saved Searches room: http://friendfeed.com/ffss Thanks ! - Ahsan Ali

http://friendfeed.com/wwdc-ma... a cleaner import of the rss feeds. missing the friendfeed searches w/ likes. wouldn't accept the RSS feed back into itself. - Courtney Engle

Ok so this has also been a mini ff search tutorial :) tx Robert amazing what one can get from life on ff - Peter du Toit (S.Africa)

drew olanoff

It's too bad they don't sell bots and software to help people not be a freakin douchebag. I'd pimp that like crazy.

June 6, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Linda Mills liked this

Zee. to Zee.'s feed, FriendFeed Feedback

Is there a trick to getting this drop down menu from the search field? It appears when it wants to for me...

May 28, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Byron McCollum, Roberto Bonini, Linda Mills and 3 other people liked this

Either wait as it comes eventually or hit the down arrow over and over.;-) - Kol Tregaskes

14 more comments

Zee, yes it's very slow sometimes. :-( - Kol Tregaskes

yeah, thats what i figured ... it's gotta be a bug - Zee.

Whatever it runs on needs to be optimised, if not already. What browser are you using, Zee? I'm on Chrome and it's slow a lot of the time. - Kol Tregaskes

safari - Zee.

Mine is immediate, I'm using Safari 4 Beta with the latest webkit build, works really well! - Chris Lloyd

how do you install the latest webkit build Chris? Because i'm using Safari 4 beta myself on the mac - Zee.

http://webkit.org/ Then just download the mac dmg, you will get another browser called "webkit" which is identical to safari, but uses the latest webkit engine, beware, it is a nightly build, so things could go wrong (I've never had problems), but it can get tiresome with non-mandatory automatic updates every 48 hours or so. - Chris Lloyd

hit ctrl-alt-del followed by alt+f4, spin around in your chair twice, visit centernetworks, click an ad, then it will work - guaraaaaaaaaaanteed! - Allen Stern

LOL @Allen. - Zee.

@Chris oh right, sorry - i'm getting confused - Zee.

Chrome on windows here ... sometimes it pops down quick for me, sometimes it doesn't pop down. I've never seen it pop down after a delay. Never had a problem with it on the ff homepage. - Chris Heath

any updates on this FF team? i still have issues unless i'm using firefox - Zee.

Hi Zee, sorry for this. We'll add it to our bugs list. - Ana

now you have Chrome came to Mac ...and FF team, when looking at slow dropdown menu, COULD you also make it bigger/longer? ..thanks :] ...apropos, could you roll down actually one or too more dropdowns, simultaneously, optionally, with live Google, Yahoo, and Bing searches?, that'd be 3 boxes drop down .. or, at least, search Google /g as a line in our original drop? .. lets do it. if you wanted to be the beffst outthere !:] === ok. this way - shortcut // opens 2 drops, /// opens them 3 .. do you agree ? :] - pb:

If you have lots of subscriptions, its going to be slow. - Byron McCollum

Dave Slusher

Another upside of my invariant ordering at this SBUX - huge touristy cluster f in line but when I got to the register my Americano was waiting on me. They saw me in line and started making it. Score!

June 5, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Linda Mills and Derek Coward liked this

I also enjoy the quizzical looks from people who don't understand 1) how I got my drink first and 2) how I got it without saying anything, just handing them money. - Dave Slusher

Steve Uccello

oh, we're playing at the 52nd Monterey Jazz fest this year in september... http://www.montereyjazzfestival.org/2009...

May 26, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Linda Mills and Rob Michael (Atmos Trio) liked this

Leo Laporte

Question for you all. I have a trademark for TWiT® - first used in May 2005, trademark applied for May 2006 and registered March 2007. The trademark is in "Entertainment in the nature of visual and audio performances, and musical, variety, news and comedy shows." http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin...

May 25, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Dobromir Hadzhiev, Richard Thomson, Dakota O'Neill and 168 other people liked this

Up until now there's been no conflict with Twitter itself because the brands were in different arenas. (We have, however, sent out cease and desist letters to companies using "twit" in their name and doing audio or video). But now Twitter is doing a TV show. The confusion between TWiT and Twitter is mounting. What do I do? Defend my mark? Or let my brand be swallowed by the big guy (even though we were first by several years)? I need your advice. What does the community think? - Leo Laporte

245 more comments

Defend your trademark, 99% of people will totally understand, you have to do it, or you'll loose it! - Chris Lloyd

Defend it. People that watch Twit Tv will also defend it. - Jason Rundell

Can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Does TWIT still stand up as an accurate brand for all the new stuff you are doing with TWIT Live? Might be time to find a new visual/brand identity. - BryanSchuetz

At the SF MusicTech conference a lawyer called "tweets" "twits" repeatedly. Let's just say I think you should defend your mark and let TV chew up and spit out twitter. - Richard Walker

Bryan: The TWiT name carries alot of weight in tech circles, it will take alot of money/time/effort to make a completely new name for something that will probably outlast twitter anyway - Chris Lloyd

Incidentally, Twitter just got their trademark approved May 11, 2009 in the following "Telecommunication services, namely, providing online and telecommunication facilities for real-time interaction between and among users of computers, mobile and handheld computers, and wired and wireless communication devices; enabling individuals to send and receive messages via email, instant... more... - Leo Laporte

There is nothing ideal about any aspect of IP law. - Richard Walker

Chris: I think Leo's name carries more weight than TWIT and (for me at least) he IS TWIT so I don't see it as quite such a big deal. - BryanSchuetz

Of course, there's a larger long-term problem because of the way that Twitter has weakened _your_ brand. It might be less expensive (and a better use of your time) to rebrand TWiT into something that strengthens your brand and moves it away from Twitter; avoiding any future problems (and there will be future problems). You can't fight Oprah. - Professor Messer

Leo - your brand, as most evidenced by your show and content is awesome - for a small group of peeps who have had a chance to discover it and enjoy. I'd use the overlap in marques to leverage Twitter in some type of promotional / service partnership, whilst still retaining your brand and the equity you've built. Don't fight em, join em, at least tactically. - Thom Kennon

Never give in to the big guy! - Brian Harper

I'm with the majority, defend your trademark and your legacy. - JCunwired

Defend it Leo. You built the brand and they need to honor that. - Robert

I always thought calling the network the same name as a show on the network was wierd. But it's a recognized brand, and I wouldn't give in. Send some mails to all the twitvid.io's out there. - Anton

Is the BIG guy really that Big? Plus, with the way busines is changing one thing seems to remain the same...protectionism, let's sue someone it's easier. I'm suggesting your desicion is easy here Leo but in light of the landscape changing do you really have a chance? The other question to ponder is this, Twitter is the hot thing now but will it be 5 years from now and will it be true... more... - Owen Greaves

speaking from a british point of view a twit is someone who is a little silly or stupid. I think your podcast can stand up against the everising onslaught of twitter. Why not rise above all this discussion and say what you are This week in technology, a fantastic poscast full of wit and essential information for gadget freaks such as myself. Let the owners of twitter gabble on, in my book baby creatures twitter and you are certainly no TWIT. - Chris Jennings

@ Professor Messer 'You can't fight Oprah' is not totally correct. You can FIGHT her, can you win? Maybe. I think, offline, Leo VS Oprah would go several rounds. Tweetfight says otherwise. - Jason Rundell

Defend it Leo. What's the use in having a trademark if others can infringe upon it. - TechListReport

Sorry to say, my girlfriend recently yelled at my for watching 'Twitter' when I was really watching TWiT live. Confusion does exist for people who don't fully understand what each service is. - Wo

The good thing about trademark law is that it's well established and legally documented. The problem with trademark law is that it's well established and legally documented. You need a brand to create awareness, and you need the trademark to protect your established brand. This one is sticky because TWiT is well established but it's going to be an expensive brand to protect. Twitter's... more... - Professor Messer

@Jason Rundell, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a cage match between Leo and Oprah (who wouldn't?). But it'll cost a lot of time and money. Sometimes it's better to be smarter than the legal system. - Professor Messer

Oh, and I think this is just the opportunity we need to resubscribe our iTunes and take over the top 10 lists. :) - Professor Messer

Can I ask - did TWiT exist before Twitter? Or did Twitter exist first? And - is your name TWiT based on Twitter, at all? - Chris Loft

Chris Loft: TWiT predates Twitter and comes from This week in tech... - Chris Lloyd

I think it's only right to defend your trademark Leo. You were there way before Twitter and just because they have gained significantly increased attention and media coverage, doesn't mean you have to lay down and submit to Twitter. I would defend your mark vigorously if I were you. You've worked hard to build your brand. - Marty McPadden

Chris Loft proves that there is confusion between the two. - Anton

Leo - TWit is an incredible brand and network of invaluable podcasts - you simply have to defend it - Robert Davies

Fight for it. When they try to get additional financing make your move. Asserting your trademark will cause them to settle or buy you out when they go public. - Alan Morris

I think that once you see the Twitter television show, you'll probably want to distance yourself as far away as possible. - Professor Messer

Defend your trademark. I get more intellectual engagement from the TWiT network of shows than I do from most of my Twitter community. - Eric Geller

Use whatever legal tools you have available to defend your brand, especially if Twitter is talking about crossing into audio/video. You have a strong product, and Twitter is creating brand confusion in the market. A hard line needs to be drawn between your product and theirs, and it's clear that they are not going to keep a respectful distance with TWiT. - Jason Miller

You have to rise above the emotion and make a business decision. How much will it cost you to defend versus how much will you gain? Simple cost/benefit. My guess is that this fight will cause you to lose focus on your work, be a financial hardship as you go up against a company with VC backing, and all for the "possibility" that you will win and maybe get some compensation from Twitter.... more... - Tom Sheppard

I thought twitvid.com was the new video netcasts Leo has been talking about, boy was I surprised! - Daniel Rinaman

It has to be defended.Giving up and letting another company take your brand, no matter how big the company or personal feelings toward the owner, can not be an option. You built your brand and should defend it. - David Z

Defend it Leo! - G Dub of the Carolinas

Don't think you have much choice do you. You either protect it or lose it. If you don't at some point they will try the other way. - nef 919 from Nambu

You need to defend it Leo. You had the trademark first. - imperator3733

How about a name like LeoCast... No confusion there. - Rustic Thoughts

It's YOUR mark Leo and you have worked hard to make it as well-known as it is. Defend what's yours!! - Jim Connolly

Twitter will be virtually gone like Classmates and MySpace in a few years... Keep the name! - Rick Harvey

yes defend your trademark - Alfonso alatorre

Twit came before Twitter I think you should defend it. it is dumb anyways Twit and Twitter is not even the same word, it would be like CocaCola suing Coconut because of COC - URLREVIEWS

Twitter is going to be a realty show based on stalking celebrities. It wont last more than one season. - Rustic Thoughts

I say let it roll. Your a 'big guy' in your own field, but Twitter is bigger. Play off of them. You could be bigger. Look at all the petty stuff that Microsoft did..and where did it get them? Bad Press. - Gene

To keep your trademark you must defend it if it's being violated. - CT Raider

I think Twitter has the brand and you don't right now. Maybe Twitter should buy it from you or you should collaborate with twitter to monetize and add your TWiT to twitter - Amit 'zyaada' Mittal

I certainly think you should defend your trademark, isn't that why you registered? - dcale1965

I checked Twitter's own site and it looks like Twitter launched March 1, 2006. TWiT was around well before then. Being in tech, I find it hard to believe they hadn't heard of him. It was a big podcast even then. I knew of TWiT well before Twitter. This may seem like a dumb issue to some, but a lot of people I recommended the podcast to now ask me if "it's a Twitter thing." - JeffreyVC

Ev told me that when they were considering names for Twitter they knew about TWiT and decided it didn't matter. In their defense, they had no idea what or how big Twitter was to become. We talked about trademark early on and both agreed there was no conflict _as long as we were in different spaces_. And therein lies the rub. - Leo Laporte

Apple Computer and Apple records recently went through this -- what was the outcome there? - Brian Sullivan

I thought it wasn't clear infringement when Twitter came out but now that there is Twit video the infringement is very clear. I would defend. - Robert Scoble

Lawyers are expensive. Legal fights are draining. You could spend the rest of your professional life fighting this battle. I don't know what's been going on in the back channel, and you probably shouldn't say publicly, but if you haven't tried approaching the Twitter board members privately, you might want to. Lay out the facts carefully, and if you're open to a settlement, say roughly... more... - Dave Winer

"Clear Infringement". How exactly? It's a lose/lose for Twitter if they choose to encroach or even litigate. - Arawak

Yeah but Leo added video later. And now Twitter is adding video. The real issue is that there is no clear separation between a radio/video network and a social microblogging site these days. And our trademarking system is so ridiculous that these kinds of conflicts go completely unnoticed all the time. - JeffreyVC

I'd say it's time to either re-brand TWiT or defend it. Deferring the decision and just living with the confusion and ambiguity is no longer an option. - Ken Sheppardson

Defend your trademark - Lars Clausen

Defend your brand Leo.The World Wide Fund for Nature took on the WWF and made them change their name to WWE. If they can do it, so can you. - BRҰANSAҰS

The big problem with defending it... beyond the unfortunate fact that it's a drain on resources that could be better spent elsewhere... is it's not clear how you'd win. They're not going to change their name. They'll forever be Twitter. Is it sufficient to somehow "ban" them from ever doing anything in video? Enforcing that in perpetuity's would only raise your blood pressure. - Ken Sheppardson

I would take the emotion out of the equation -- find out what it would cost to defend and determine what it is worth to have exclusive/non-exclusive use (maybe some subjectivity here) and make the decision using that information. - Brian Sullivan

I say defend it but only so much as to bring more media attention to your brand... once you have the media's attention you can use that to change the brand identity if you so choose. Your followers myself included will stay fans no matter what you call your brand, but I think you have an opportunity to expand and use twitter as a means of gaining media attention! - Nathan McClain

If you don't do this you wont have a leg to stand on in the future when you need to really protect it. I can piss all over your trademark if you do not defend it. - David Lloyd

Leo: in a trademark fight what is the ROI? I am sure it will be very expensive and not sure you will get much in return but if you forced Twitter to change its name I am sure they would quickly settle with you. - Robert Scoble

I still think Twitter will be as irrelevant as MySpace in 2 years, but it's your brand to protect. - Mike Lewis

Ideal Outcome: A $$$ settlement sufficient to comfortably fund the rebranding of TWiT. - Ken Sheppardson

Robert makes a very good point. This could get messy and expensive, although it seems like those guys are VERY hard to work/interact with. - Brian Daniel Eisenberg

while bryan lee makes a good point, their battles took a long time to resolve. but, don't let this deter you. i would suggest you defend it. if anything, i see you have a strong case and whatever happens can be in your favour. it's possible twitter can concede in infringing in your trademark and may be even consider licensing through the course of the battle. but be very, very patient for any outcome to happen. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Dave: wrong. Leo is who got me on Twitter. His marks were more popular and predated Twitter's. - Robert Scoble

Leo got me into twitter too! - Jim Connolly

I think Leo has a good chance at wining his case since he did register the copyright first. Twitter is still not a money making business. They are living off of VC money. They will probably not have the funds to mount a case since their money will be tied up with keeping twitter afloat. Am I right? - BRҰANSAҰS

Leo also got me on Twitter shortly after they went public. - Mike Bracco

regarding AMF, Inc. v. Sleekcraft Boats, 599 F.2d 341 (9th Cir. 1979) the battle was very different. one of the things found was that the company had an 'infinity' of other brands to choose. it's a very different situation in detail, although it looks comparable at face value. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Or just have them become a premium sponsor. There used to be so much twitter talk before, I think they really should be owing you some gratitude for the traffic. - Arawak

As part of any settlement, you should demand Ev and Biz concede that individual Twitter entries are "Tweets", as embarrassed as they seem to be by that. They're net "twits" or "twitters"... they're "tweets". - Ken Sheppardson

i'm sure something can be negotiated with twitter. a lawsuit in this case would show you're just defending your trademark because they are encroaching in your territory. you're not taking them on what they are known to do, their core competency. rather, it's stepping into your own grounds. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

not doing anything on purpose may weaken your trademark. many court cases also end up not going through the entire ordeal. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Yep, I agree the day has come where it's either fight or flight. And I don't mean that quite the way it sounds. :-/ - Ken Sheppardson

Defend!!!! - Mark Williamson from BuddyFeed

I don't think you have much choice. Either you defend it or you lose it. - Pascal Sijen

dave johnson: true, there's always a degree of uncertainty; but that doesn't mean giving up in defending one's investment in a trademark. it can be argued pragmatically and it's to the point where leo must defend his territory upon which twitter is encroaching. aye. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

I'm not sure you can win, are we aren't even sure what they're going to call it yet. If it ends up being Twitter.TV you have no chance to beat them. - DarknessFalls

There is even a shortening service called: http://twitpwr.com/ - The brand must be defended. - David Z

Leo: You must defend it or lose it. They need to know you also have the muscle behind you. I have the attorney that did all the trademark work for Terminator 1-4, Rambo, old timer who knows every angle. I have him on retainer and would love to join your cause. I can arrange a chat with him at no cost, then you can decide to move ahead, or if the cost seems to steep, I would be interested in partnering with you on the trademark. Fight on Leo! Let me know if you want to chat Thx Chad - Chad Harris

I'm of the opinion that twitter's initial success back in 2006 and 2007 was in part due to piggybacking on the brand name recognition that Leo had built over the years prior. - Chris Heath

I think defending it is what you must do, but perhaps take a different look at it all together and suggest some kind of mutual PR blitz leading into a partnership or new brand identity for TWiT. Just don't call it SyFy! - Aaron T. Harvey

The question here is would a "Reasonable person" confuse the two? I would like to think I am a reasonable person (even though I can't spell) and I would not be confused in the least. I love the Twit network and watch several hours a week, but I don't see the issue. - Rob

I agree that since Leo has been a twitter evangelist all these years, they should be able to strike an accord somehow. Maybe even partnering up on the whole Twitter TV Show since Leo has the video presence online. - BRҰANSAҰS

You have to defend now, or 5 years from now you'll have a weaker case against the twitty podcast network. - Robert Hafer

Rob, the question isn't whether or not you or I would confuse the two, but do the people who watch Oprah and maybe catch Leo on The Tech Guy confuse them...and they do. - Aaron T. Harvey

Aaron...Do you really think they would. Am I that out of touch with the "Normal People"? If that is the case then I guess I would have to conseed that to be an issue. But I am still not quite convenced. - Rob

Funny - I would enjoy the extra publicity - You have a loyal set of listeners - and none of us are confused. If people end up on your site -cause they are looking for twitter, maybe they will take a listen. People who are looking for podcasts on technology though i doubt will find twitter in a search. - Laurence Gold

Rob, I've seen it happen, even with people "in the know". People think that TWiT is somehow connected with Twitter because of the name. It's a mistake that, while not happening with everyone--and maybe not even the majority--can end up costing Leo and co. money. - Aaron T. Harvey

Protect what you worked hard to build - Shawn Hickman

Of course you should perfect TWIT for media and tech. You have the prior art, use. It's an obvious move for Twitter to exploit their 'brand' into media. You must pursue Leo. You have been a crusader for fair-use, but there are times (like this example) where fairness requires accountability. - michael sean wright

The commenter who noted that if you do not enforce your rights they may be weakened is generally correct. I suggest seeking an agreement that is mutually beneficial and recognizes your rights in the TWiT(R) trademark. - erik pelton

The problem with defending your trademark is the public backlash it can generate. Think O'Reilly and Web 2.0 or Apple and Profit Pod. But in this case, if you are indeed convinced that there is some infringement of TWiT by Twitter, I think you'd be doing us all a favor if you could somehow head off their plans for a celebrity-stalking TV show. - Dave

The problem is not really twitter, or a twitter video show, but all the people who says they just sent a twit. Also all the small companies with twit in their name, who are in the video/audio area. Twit radio, twitvid.io etc etc. I see no problem in protecting the brand. However it ends out you'll get a lot of publicity. - Anton

Leo, this could be an opportunity for you to come out ahead. Yes it's an awkward situation and yes you could fight this on legal grounds, but there's no win for you there. Here's a way for you to win. Today your brand is a split brand--split between "Leo LaPorte" and "TWIT." You can win by focusing more on building the Leo LaPorte part of the brand. "Leo LaPorte" doesn't equal TWIT, yr... more... - Michael Metz

man you gotta defend your name and trademark,whats next a twitter podcast network? - cliff whitefoot

I think Ken Sheppardson sums it up nicely. I don't think you even need to retain a lawyer to start with the cease and desist letters, then see if they are amenable to a settlement, partnership or other remedy. It doesn't have to, and hopefully won't ever, come to a legal battle. However, it's clear enough that unless Leo hands them his mark and re-brands on his own dime, he must defend... more... - Richard Walker

Its funny... in a way you helped make twitter the juggernaut it is today.... all the free advertisement that you have given them over the years....LOL.. Maybe they should return the favor - Nathan McClain

Hasn't Leo said he wants to add a second host to the network? Wouldn't it also confuse viewers if they were watching the Leo Laporte Network and the show was hosted by someone not named Leo? - Norm Corriveau

Leo, some other people have made good points, if you're going after Twitter your also going to have to go after the other sites with Twit in the name: Twitpic, Twitpwr and Twiteverything or your case will be thrown out. - DarknessFalls

DarknessFalls: he'd only have to do that if they all launched TV shows too. - Martin Bryant

darknessfalls, you're not getting the scope. it's about leo's twit trademark on video and what twitter plans to do that's associated with it. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

If you haven't done so already, explore the Apple case, both the legal and business issues that Apple Corps encountered. And if you DON'T defend your trademark, what's Plan B? Remember that Twitter (or its future owners) may someday sue YOU. - John E. Bredehoft from fftogo

Leo, take your mark and make them all change names. Is this Ustream show even official Twitter? it looks pretty lame, like they just used the word, visual branding like twitter.com. http://www.ustream.tv/channel... - rob friedman

Don't sue unless you can find a business case and a lawyer to take the case on contingency with enough potential gain that it all wouldn't have been a big waste of time for a couple hundred dollars. But I am not a lawyer (IANAL). In fact, the grown up thing for twitter to do would be to link to you with an explanation that they aren't you and visa versa. - Eric Standlee

Defend yourself, Leo. - Devin Baines

Defend your trademark. Why else would you have filed it in the first place? - phil baumann

The best solution would be for Leo to produce the official Twitter show as part of the TWiT network. - Martin Bryant

The brand is big because of Leo yes, but having the TWiT brand is important. There are shows on the network in which Leo is not in. - Anton

Whats the question? TWiT is yours Leo, you need to protect it, the TWiT Army is not only at your back but with 60% of new Twitter accounts not coming back, all you have to do is hold out and wait on it to fold anyways. - Bush Williams

Anton, the band is TWiT - twit.tv? - TWiT netcast network... that is the brand... - Chris Heath

It is totally unfair, but I want to see all of your focus and money going towards content, not legal actions. You will be endlessly sending out C&Ds or worse as long as Twitter is popular. That said, I do think you should squeeze some money out of Ev in order to cede the brand. - invariant

Twitter offers more value to me than TWiT ever could. Sorry Leo, but this just seems like sour grapes. - Shannon

Leo: You should do a This Week in Law on this btw. - Anton

Shannon - how much value you get from either brand is not what is at question here. - Chris Heath

I'm not sure if this was already mentioned in the nearly 150 comments here, but Leo's link doesn't work. Here's a better link that I hope stays active: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin... - Eric Geller

+1 to chris' comment. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

You have a "defend or lose" obligation under trademark law. The TWiT brand has significant value, both from a revenue perspective and and the potential cost of re-branding al your sites, moving twit.tv etc., if you lose it. Protect the mark that secures your brand. Oh yeah, on that whole "big guy" theme: Because of your stable business model vs Twitter's Twitter's evolving one, an... more... - David Lounsbury

Shannon, the post asks for advice on how to be the best caretaker of a network and its trademark - your assignment of personal value should guide your own choices, but is irrelevant to the question at hand. How can it be sour grapes if failing to act now _could_ result in losing the standing of a trademark/brand which preceded those of other players who _may_ be crossing the line to the point of infringement. - Micah

TWiT offers more value to me than Twitter ever could. Sorry Shannon, but this just seems like sour grapes. - invariant

What a conundrum. I can't speak much to any legal considerations. But, on an emotional level, I would imagine that not defending and potentially losing the name must feel like smiling politely as an immigration official pins you with a random Anglicized name because your real, "ethnic" name is confusing to the masses in the new world, and making a fuss is to gamble the welfare of your... more... - Micah

@Ken Camp: Isn't twitter also a common english word which can't be trademarked? EDIT: Or Windows, for that matter? - invariant

invariant -- you mean like Apple? - Brian Sullivan

word, err, I mean Microsoft Word - Micah

So I think we've established that common English words can be trademarked. So what's the criteria? Has to be a noun? - invariant

of related note, i realise that twitter is indirectly facilitating twit offshoots upon registration. this is how: registering anything with 'twitter' in the username is *banned*. so, for a user already having their heart set on using twitter as part of their 'brand' might think of using 'twit' instead. this opens up a new can of worms figuring out who is using the twit name and doing video. like how they are doing now with 'twiter', they can stop it at registration to avoid further confusion. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

I say defend it. If they are doing a TV show, they're definitely stepping on your toes. Nevermind that I can't imagine their show would be any good, but that's a different story... :) - Jan Ole Peek

What about TwiTips? If that isn't entertainment then what is? But seriously I own several trademarks myself and I know if you don't take action then you could lose the Tmark. You have a conundrum because Twitter is so popular. So I would recommend seeking a compromise so that you won't lose your mark and appear like the bad guy with the public. Perhaps a clearer definition of the terms... more... - BLOGBloke

Other than I think he needs to see a surgeon to fix that lean to the left he has,... I love the guy and have been listening to him for about 15...16...dang probabaly close to 18 years about tech news I love the guy. And to top it off! He knows what he is talking about!! Leo makes am radio worth a listen on the weekends! - John Apostoli

TWiT is a network providing audio and video broadcast covering issues related to the tech field. Twitter is a social network used to connect people using the basic SMS tools. While people *may* confuse the issue by referring to Twitter messages as "twits, there is no evidence that Twitter has used or endorsed the term. Unless & until Twitter (as a company) starts using the term "Twit"... more... - David J. Garcia

I've said this privately, but I guess I will say it publicly.Defend your mark. It is your livelihood. There WILL be confusion if it gets to TV, where people are not tech savvy and have no idea who you are - Francine Hardaway

Yes, it may be expensive, and yes, these fights are draining, Dave, but until the laws are changed (an entirely different question), Leo could lose part of his livelihood through the confusion, especially since he has advertisers who would probably want him to defend. Everything in the universe doesn't happen in Silicon Valley:-) - Francine Hardaway

David - until now that has been the case, but Twitter is planning on doing a TV show (which would definitely be infringement), which is why this debate is happening. - imperator3733

I would certainly want you to defend it but i don't think its gonna be possible for two reasons. First Twitter is a bigger, more powerful and certainly more loved brand with more money. and you were first to infringe the unofficial agreement by hosting Twit Army. in that perspective you might not be able to defend it legally.besides the audience you've built ain't gonna be affected by what twitter does.So consult a legal advisor & take best course of action. Best of Luck - Abhishek Sharma

I think if you approach it in good faith--initially without lawyers--you have a very good chance to work something out. Ev seems to be a very reasonable guy. Perhaps it's best to draft a strategy with counsel before any discussions though. What's really in your favor(perhaps legally, perhaps not) is that Twitter can't deny how your support and promotion for it was incendiary to the... more... - Gregg Scott

http://www.googlefight.net/... - ouch - Nate

What's the point of a googlefight here Nate? - Chris Heath

Sorry but the Google fight site is loaded with pop-ups that even show through popup blocker. - Usman Bashir

Usman, I didn't get any popups (using chrome on winxp) but still it's a hideous site - Chris Heath

Twitter has a lot of investment, but I'm not sure all of that is liquid money. You may be even in the money spent defending your Trademark. I say go for it. Do it now though if you do. - Jesse Stay

Leo must Defend! - Jim Mahon

If it was me, I'd defend it. While Twitter is still worth something! Talk to a lawyer first and see if you have a valid case. - John Frazer

You must defend. - Will Bostwick

I can't believe how long this thread has gotten! - BRҰANSAҰS

Seems like you are getting a lot of FREE promotion as a result of twitter. My bigger concern would be not having the twit.com URL to go with your brand name. That's a big issue! - Craig Shipp

@Craig, twit.com was registered in 1997, and it's parked. - rob friedman

Twit is your trademark for the company you have built up. It seems rather unfair that they would brand their idea so similar. I would defend it and all the hard work you have done. - Matthew Davis

Defend it Leo. Things may get ugly, but sometimes they just gotta. - David Chartier from BuddyFeed

Fight for you trademark! Especially since they knew of your prior use and now they are doing a TV show which they should know is stepping on your trademark. - russellcoleman

What Kyle said!! - JCunwired

Leo, FriendFeed community, let's get practical here - Twitter has more resources and probably a decent case defending against what you could file. It would be a blow to your image, to TWiT's image, and be bad press overall. You have a far greater chance of losing credibility than gaining trademark protection. You need to look into other strategies. - Ben Parr

There is no such thing as bad Press - Jesse Stay from email

I would thin kthat the thing to do is to gently but firmly convince them that they are infringing on your brand, that litigation would be damaging to both of you, losing community goodwill over the fight, and that it would be simpler, faster, and cheaper for both entities if they were to pay for your rebranding effort. Be prepared to present them with the estimated costs of litigation,... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Defend your Trademark. It's the responsible thing to do as a buisness. - Donald Forth

what Kyle & guruvan said. Does anyone else think we need threaded comments for conversations like this right here? - Richard Walker

I'd defend the TWiT trademark. - Jonathan Bloom

I'm not as thunk as you drink I am - David Lloyd

Also there is this guy who has a "beef" with twitter http://twitter.co.uk/ - rob friedman

@rob friedman - That guy says Twitter doesn't require you to validate your email address. Wow, that's ripe for abuse! - invariant

Defend. - Tony Meyer

Talk to a lawyer. - Zian Choy

More than a hundred comments, the community is twitting even on friendfeed. A legal action would be very difficult. You should first define your objective in doing so. Do you really want to protect your brand or settle for a lucrative compensation? Even if you get some sort of legal protection limiting Twitter to use or endorse the word "twit" to some extent, people will still be... more... - Cem ARGUN

Prior art (and obligatory MP reference) http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Jay Cuthrell

Maybe a dead issue? At least as far as the potential fight w/ Twitter, Inc. Mashable says Twitter responds no official Twitter TV show http://mashable.com/2009... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

And now for something completely different... watch the meetup room if interested in seeing Spamalot in SF as a group... - Richard Walker

I would say defend it. Of course, I'm just a Twit.tv fan and not a lawyer. - Joey Gibson

You lose so much credibility with all this nonsense. - PC Easy from twhirl

'all this nonsense'?? wtf is that supposed to mean? - Chris Heath

Just leave it alone until they manage to make some real money off it, then litigate. That's how it's done you know. - Will Higgins™

Yeah this is nonsense. If you think you really have a case, then don't make a big stink about it on Friendfeed. Just go take them to court. - PC Easy from twhirl

Leo, I am a long time fan and constant listener to all of you work. You are a more than fair and wholly honorable man. You have had TWIT long before I ever heard of a twitter. Go with your heart Leo. I am behind you. I understand you would impede progress of any positive kind. But a cease and desist letter. Seems harsh. I think you have a winner. Let them buy the TM. Power to the people. Go Leo, you deserve it. You do only good. You are one of a kind! RodneO - RODNEY OLIVER

PC Easy: I don't think Leo's making a big stink. The idea that twitter would get into the tv/video business would be a big thing since they have a verbal agreement with Leo not to get into that business. This may be all for nothing, since the mashable article guruvan linked above states that twitter will not be doing a show. Leo was doing the best first step (imho) in asking the community for guidance in the event that the original reporting was correct (which it does not appear to be now). So moot point - Chris Heath

I think if I was you Leo I would try to license rights to them and get some mula out of it. Remember "Leo Laporte" goes a lot farther than TWIT does and most importantly ever will. - Eric VM

there's a current backlash on twitter trending topics right now w/ hashtag #notwittertv. the examiner has an unfavorable article here: http://www.examiner.com/x-264-C... even alyssa milano is against it: http://twitter.com/Alyssa_... - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Its going to suck and bomb... guaranteed. - Rustic Thoughts

Maybe just sell it to them Leo for a gazillion dollars and retire. Keep the leaches out of it..meaning the lawyers. What the heck, Leo you are great at trend setting, you practically put twitter on the map. They owe you something.for all the pub you have given them since their inception. - John Apostoli

Defend. There's really no reasonable alternative. - Jason Clarke

You gotta defend it Leo. What's the point of trademarking in the first place. - Joel Lovato

You have to defend what is legally yours. - Michael Hansel

Twitter Responds: There is No Official Twitter TV Show- Mashable (May 25th, 2009 | by Pete Cashmore) -- http://mashable.com/2009... -- There is no official Twitter TV show—although if there were it would be fun to cast! In dealing with networks and production companies we sometimes have simple agreements. Regarding the Reveille and Brillstein project reported today,... more... - Chris Loft

Leo, suggest you go "open source co-branding" on this. Monetize your "twit" brand through creative brand licensing with emerging entertainment and multimedia microblogging companies that want to ride the "twitter" bandwagon. I can see creative corporate and individual co-brands like, TwitSounds, TwitFilms, TwitMedia, TwitCats, TwitBitch, TwitMechanic, etc... - Mike Schmidt

I don't want to over simplify this but if Twitter do branch into video and even streaming TV, surely the content would have to be substantially different to what TWiT already provides, otherwise they are at risk of spoiling their brand identity. Stay strong and true to the Tech news content and let Twitter, well do what ever they may do. Personally, I think it would be a mistake for them to go down this road. Time may be better spent further improving the existing service. - Kevin J Hatton

the mashable news is taken directly from the twitter blog: http://blog.twitter.com - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Maybe it's a good time to Re-Brand. Twit has unfortunate connotations in some areas of the English speaking world. On this side of the pond a twit is an idiot. Until I became aware of Leo I gave TWiT a very wide berth. Branded simply as This Week in Tech it would have got my positive attention a whole lot sooner. Time to move onward and upward. - Gilbert Harding

This was copied and pasted but sums it up so well : Of course, there's a larger long-term problem because of the way that Twitter has weakened _your_ brand. It might be less expensive (and a better use of your time) to rebrand TWiT into something that strengthens your brand and moves it away from Twitter; avoiding any future problems (and there will be future problems). You can't fight Oprah. - Professor Messer - Fragtastic

A very worthy point - "I think that once you see the Twitter television show, you'll probably want to distance yourself as far away as possible. - Professor Messer" - Fragtastic

I'll admit to being a little slow on the uptake to both TWiT and twitter and it took me some time to figure out that they were different things. I was listening to TWiT before I found twitter, and at first I wondered if I was mixing the names up in my head. I think there is real potential for confusion between the two names. Good luck in whatever you decide to do, Leo. - Rick Reynolds

You could ride the wave of popularity Twitter is experiencing by allowing that confusion to blossom. Perhaps more people could start listening and watching your netcasts *because* of that confusion? - David Hepworth

You need to defend your brand, however since you know the guys at Twitter maybe you can come to some sort of agreement that is the best interest of both TWiT and Twitter. - Jim Lavin

I say defend the brand. I fully believe Leo and TWiT will outlive Twitter. It would be a shame to surrender the brand only to see it disappear in 1-2 years. - Martin Johnson

I say defend it, if you don't the that opens the door to other infringements. - Hunter

since you clearly took your name from This Week in Baseball, which deputed in 1977, should MLB defend their trademark with you? - glenn simmons

Defend it! definitely, the trademark is rightfully yours and you need to hold on to it...I like twitter, but I like TWiT even more... - Raymond

Glenn, you are wrong. There are many registered trademarks that contain "this week in" - russellcoleman

See what you have started Leo? Twitter TV is not a patch on what you do. Now if it was professionally done, with great audio then maybe, - Kevin J Hatton

Dealing with a similar issue (though not as big as dealing with Twitter). I say throw out a warning shot to protect your brand. Worst case they ignore you and you have to spend gobs of money to defend it. Best case they make you a $$ offer. - Brian Niles from Nambu

russellcoleman, exactly so why is Leo crying about twitter - glenn simmons

Glenn, because "Twit" is Leo's trademark in the area of entertainment in the nature of visual and audio performances, and musical, variety, news and comedy shows. - russellcoleman

Defend it! - Kiran Patchigolla

Sorry Leo, does that mean I can't call people Twitts? Does it mean no one in a television or audio show can use the word twitt? I mean Twitter...TWIT...they have 3 more letters and their brand is based on communication not entertainment. Give up the ghost against Twitter by now dude. IF they were doing what you were doing MAYBE but what you are saying is noone can use the letters T W I or T .... don't become the next Monster. - Sidney

Defend. No retreat. No surrender. - Barry Biddlecomb from twhirl

Sidney, it means they can't use twit as part of their brand if they go into the areas Leo's trademark covers. We are talking about branding here. - russellcoleman

Again, Twitter is a communication company looking to capitalize on providing television content the ability to have immediate interactive component...Nothing that TWIT does...so no infringement. Leo has always had the axe to grind with Twitter...if he was going to do something he should have done it immediately... - Sidney

My understanding is that Twitter is going to have a TV show and that may infringe. My point above was to the suggestion that no one could say the word twit. - russellcoleman

@Christopher Carr, I meant that twitting has become a generic expression going far beyond Twitter. Here on friendfeed we are twitting, an these lines are in fact twits... :) - Cem ARGUN

As an anecdote, until now I thought TWiT was something twitter related, and I basically ignored it for that reason. I have learned over time that I'm often not a good representative of anything, but there was certainly brand confusion in my case. - Robin Barooah

At first, yep, I thought Twit spawned Twitter. But in a few nanoseconds, I knew otherwise. But in the mind of 'ordinary' (horrible term, sorry) user coming at Twit from Twitter surely they'll get the idea. But Twitter is SO pervasive, I'm glad that you've decided to take advice. I know nothing, but I feel you should protect your brand. Don't change your name. Change the game. On another tack, you checked out http://audioboo.fm ? - John C Wesley Barker

"Again, Twitter is a communication company looking to capitalize on providing television content the ability to have immediate interactive component." - Sidney That is exactly what Leo's doing - Anton

news of twitter tv just hit the local abc news. they mentioned there's already direct opposition by celebrities ashton & demi who (according to their tweets) will quit twitter if this reality show sees the light of day (paraphrasing). this could mean -as they say & putting it lightly- 'my enemy's enemy is my friend?' odd yet amusing opposition from the hollywood. however, no mentions of twit and leo. :-\ - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Twitter can look to capitalize on providing television content the ability to have immediate interactive component all they want. But I don't think they should do it in a way that can cause any confusion between them and Leo's network. - russellcoleman

Sorry the only confusion people have had is what Leo has brought to the table himself. He should have stepped up long ago if he felt Twitter was going to create confusion and admittably it has and TWIT and Twitter don't even cross streams. I know for one if Leo wastes his money on litigation I for will be disappointed and believe it will harm the TWIT brand. - Sidney

i know this thread is too long to read for many. re-quoting what leo said here for those who keep saying he should have stepped up long ago: "Ev told me that when they were considering names for Twitter they knew about TWiT and decided it didn't matter. In their defense, they had no idea what or how big Twitter was to become. We talked about trademark early on and both agreed there was no conflict _as long as we were in different spaces_. And therein lies the rub. - Leo Laporte" - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Very tough choice. I think these comments provide you with a fairly good sample of public opinion from people in tech, but it would be interesting to get input from the rest of the world on Twitter who have never heard of TWiT. It certainly won't cost much to send in a warning shot so they take notice and to demonstrate defense of your TM, but I would follow that up with a request to... more... - Phil Ashman

This twitter thing is just a flash in the pan, you can wait them out ;-) - Wolfman-K

If he fights and loses, at least he defended it, which is required to keep it. If Leo does nothing, he could lose it. - Bwana ☠

How do people feel about Monster Cable suing companies that use the word Monster in their name? I feel the same here...except that Twitter just happens to have the same four LETTERS as Twit, as the beginning. They arent using Twit as a standalone word. C'mon. - Andru Edwards

The only justification I can see in Leo going after Twitter is so that he can at least show he is defending his TM so he doesn't lose it as Bwana said...otherwise I think it is a losing game that will be a waste of resources that TWIT could utilize in other productive pursuits. - Sidney

The Monster Cable example doesn't really work. They were suing companies that were in different spaces. Now with Twitter doing a TV show, that is in the same space as TWIT and Leo has the trademark for it. - Mike Child

Everyone should read this: http://blog.twitter.com/2009... It has been linked a few times in this discussion up above, but bears linking again based on recent comments - From what I can tell, it doesn't look like twitter will have a tv show - so this whole point is moot - leo may have to defend his trademark against these 'other' shows if they use the word twit in their name, but i don't think they will - Chris Heath

Leo -This is a battle that will be HELL. Yet, it is critical you fight it. I had a couple situations very much like it in telecommunications late '80s early '90s. I should have fought. Give them a run for their money. It will cost you $$ and resources. But, with Twitter's new direction - man - you're a journalist at heart... You already know - you've got to fight for your right! - Arleen Boyd

Man this is a tough position to be in. Honestly, I can't see TWiT or Twitter changing brands/names. However, Leo, you were first and you have the trademark to back it up. I say defend it! - Doug Jones

Biz responds to the Twitter TV show on the blog: http://blog.twitter.com/2009... - Doug Jones

not reading the thread befire i comment... but seems to me that TWITTER does not equal TWIT. what else is their to know? - sull

Leo, I think the law is very clear, if you don't defend your trademark you may lose it. - David Angel from twhirl

Leo a firestorm is brewing over twitter tv http://www.nydailynews.com/tech_gu... - dday

Make them pay you a million in cold hard cash for the TWIT name and change your name to TWIG - This Week In Goodness :-) - Richard Bitting

When you see such services as "TwitThat" (http://twitthat.com/), with that spelling of "tweet", there is an incredible amount of confusion waiting to happen ! - arnaudt

arnaudt, good point. and again... TWiT does NOT = twitter - so leo has no case. twitter themselves dont use 'twit' in any way. they barely if at all use 'tweet' in any way. they began as 'twtr' in like 2006. twitter is NOT an abbreviation for anything as TWiT is. twitter is not solely behind producing an entertainment property.. they are granting rights to others to do so and in some... more... - sull

sull, TWIT does NOT have to = twitter for Leo to have a case. People just have to be confused enough to adversely impact, or even potentially impact, Leo's business. - Chris Gardner

Chris, i think it does for him to have a 'good' case. You cannot prevent Twitter from letting media entities use twitter as part or their 'shows', even if twitter as some levell of partnership. In the end, it will cost Leo money to lose a trademark case. Proving, for example, that an MTV show tentatively named 'what you're watching' that uses twitter and facebook etc as fundemental components for audience interaction has any negative effect to the TWiT podcast. - sull

sull, there just needs to be a likelihood of confusion. The Court there announced eight specific elements to measure likelihood of confusion: Strength of the mark - Proximity of the goods - Similarity of the marks - Evidence of actual confusion - Marketing channels used - Type of goods and the degree of care likely to be exercised by the purchaser - Defendant's intent in selecting the mark - Likelihood of expansion of the product lines - Chris Gardner

Oh, and TWiT is not just a podcast. It is a live streaming net video network. There are on and off talks to take to cable also. - Chris Gardner

Chris, thanks for pointing those elements of liklihood. Still, i think that even for the case to have a leg to stand on, twitter would need to have a 'show' specifically named in a way that may cause confusion. That has not happened. Trying to prevent the word 'twitter' from being used at all in marketing and branding via "visual and audio performances" because of the TWiT trademark seems a stretch and will prob result in negative publicity for Leo. Anyway, maybe we'll see. Interesting. - sull

sull, agreed interesting. Also, this will probably not go anywhere near the courts. Ev Williams and Leo know each other and get along (not many in the industry that Leo does not get along with). They will work things out. - Chris Gardner

For those who are unaware, people have to take action to protect their brands otherwise they lose their trademark. My suggestions and observations: 1. Look for win-win 2. It all seems moot anyway http://blog.twitter.com/2009... tho this is a fascinating thread 3. If twitter did ever go ahead with this it would be a fairly simple compromise for them to... more... - Isha (Marysia)

You need to defend it. I don't know that you'll stop twitter from launching their show but you have to fight it to keep your trademark valid. You for sure need to go after twitvid.com and twitvideo.com! - The Griff

Defend the trademark. It could make the difference on winning a future trademark case with another company. - David Ebaugh

Defend it. It was your long before Twitter was even around. Like someone else said what is the point of calling your network that if as soon as a bigger fish comes along you cave. Don't give in to the man Leo! - Mr. Thomas

Leo. I am not a lawyer and don't play one on the Internet. It sounds like you have no real case against Twitter, but the producers of the rumored tv show are a different story. Even then, it depends on what they are doing with the subject matter. Is it *about* Twitter, or simply about people who use Twitter? Will they ever use the term, "twit" in the show? It certainly couldn't hurt to... more... - Jake Overton

Let's not forget that use of anything in an editorial context is considered fair use. - Ryan Brodkin

I also feel that you have an opportunity for even more publicity if you can work the TWiT shows into the TV show, joining them rather than fighting them. You will get publicity either way, but there seems to be a high road and a low road (or perception thereof). Good luck and keep up the great shows. - Jake Overton

Leo fight them. - johnny

we neec to fight for TWIT - Richard Thomson

So far I don't think there is a conflict with Twitter, unless there is a Twitter TV show. Although you should fight sites like http://twitvid.io . Plus if you win, you could have an awesome domain for video downloads when you want to offer them. - Mister IQ

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