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LogEx
Tinfoil 2.0 | http://logicalextremes.com | FriendFeed DMs Welcome | GMT-6 | I'm logicalextremes on GReader, GTalk, and everywhere else | GV (331) 642-0002
If you have a beer handy, please raise your glass...
Haggis (Sean Loyless) liked this
...and join me in wishing @matsie a very happy birthday! [@Festival of Wood and Barrel Aged Beer]
- LogEx
from email
Consumer groups call for action on travel privacy - http://hasbrouck.org/blog...
I'd like to be able to follow others' Twitter Lists within lists that I make.
Alex Scrivener and Lindsey is Fierce! liked this
From Privacy To Liberty: The Fourth Amendment After Lawrence - http://uclalawreview.org/... - UCLA Law Review
"...the Court in Lawrence explains that intimate conduct occurring within protected personal relationships constitutes a private sphere wherein government may not intrude."
- LogEx
Protecting Your Virtual Privacy: A Closer Look At Digital And Internet Security http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...
"Unless there are specific laws in place, this personal digital information is up for grabs. It can be bought and sold between governments and private companies, which can then conduct data mining and analysis on it and sell the results to third parties," he explains.
- LogEx
Like Europe, Canada has a universal informational privacy policy, but U.S. data collection and dissemination regulation is more limited. Justice system lawyers are currently debating the issue of informational privacy, and Dr. Birnhack suggests that they look to Canada's law as a good way to protect privacy. "Canada has the best data protection regime in the world," he says. "It's very powerful."
- LogEx
ACTA - Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement - Why you should care...
Marcos Marado, spider, Bill Sodeman and 15 other people liked this
EFF Breaking News: "Leaked ACTA Internet Provisions: Three Strikes and a Global DMCA" http://www.eff.org/deeplin... "The Internet provisions have nothing to do with addressing counterfeit products, but are all about imposing a set of copyright industry demands on the global Internet, including obligations on ISPs to adopt Three Strikes Internet disconnection policies, and a global expansion of DMCA-style TPM laws."
- LogEx
EFF background paper: "What is ACTA? Why You Should Care About It? What You Can Do?" http://www.eff.org/issues/acta
- LogEx
Public Knowledge background paper: http://www.publicknowledge.org/issues...
- LogEx
Boing Boing coverage: "Secret copyright treaty leaks. It's bad. Very bad." http://www.boingboing.net/2009... This has the most concise summary: "The internet chapter of the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, a secret copyright treaty whose text Obama's administration refused to disclose due to "national security" concerns, has leaked. It's bad. It says: *...
more...
- LogEx
Michael Geist breaking news: "The ACTA Internet Chapter: Putting the Pieces Together" http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content...
- LogEx
Petition letter to President Obama today: "Transparency of the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA)" http://www.keionline.org/acta-pe... [via http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-l... ] - current list of signatories: US signatories Knowledge Ecology International David Bollier, Onthecommons.org Ed Mierzwinski, U.S. PIRG Essential Action...
more...
- LogEx
Wow, that sounds just awful.
- Thomas Hawk
My Solution... http://friendfeed.com/travisp...
- Travis Koger
Harms of extending the regime of the DMCA to an international treaty: Chills Free Expression and Scientific Research, Jeopardizes Fair Use, Impedes Competition and Innovation, and Interferes with Computer Intrusion Laws [http://www.eff.org/wp...] [http://chillingeffects.org/]
- LogEx
A way to attack it if it passes, start closely watching all the big media company and government agency content. Every time they accidentally violate a copyright report them. When they have their three strikes demand their internet access be unplugged. Imagine the day when Disney and the DOJ are taken down.
- Ed Millard
i'm sure immunity for the government will be built-in on "national security" grounds.
- Joe Silence is not dead
With some notable exceptions (some of those being invalid), the government isn't allowed to claim copyright to its works.
- LogEx
Ed, the only problem is that you have to be sure you can win in court to go down that avenue, the process is heavily stacked against the little guy.
- LogEx
Maybe you just have all the "little guys" watch the content for the violations and then report them to a website where someone with lawyers like EFF files the take downs. It would give the big companies backing this pause if they realize they are equally vulnerable under it.
- Ed Millard
That's a good point Ed, organization is key. There have been a couple of embarrassing cases recently where companies have been outed for being hypocritical with content.
- LogEx
"Sixteen library, consumer, creator, and civil liberties organizations today told the Obama Administration of their “deep concerns about the lack of transparency and openness” surrounding the negotiation of an international trade agreement that has the potential to rewrite U.S. copyright law. " - http://www.publicknowledge.org/node... - "Intellectual property law requires a balance...
more...
- LogEx
Leaked ACTA Internet Provisions: Three Strikes and a Global DMCA http://www.eff.org/deeplin...
Daniel Rowley, Marcos Marado, winckel and 2 other people liked this
:(
- winckel
More informative thread on this here: https://friendfeed.com/liberty...
- LogEx
Note to all organizations: an RSS feed is mandatory in 2009. There's also something called Twitter, you might want to look into that.
Daniel Rowley, Sean McBride, Hutch Carpenter and 20 other people liked this
The RSS should also be highly visible. One client has their RSS buried on a pop-up. Another, you have to email them monthly to get the RSS. Stupid.
- Anika
So agree with this-and so agree with Anika, that is soooo annoying when you have to look all over for the RSS icon...
- Harold Cabezas
the commercial world is very slow to leverage tech
- winckel
Geez. Where are all these tech idjits and why aren't they paying me to help them?!? *frustrated*
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Meh, RSS is so 2001...an API to friendfeed is now required.
- Alex Scoble
Or, they could just skip RSS and move on.
- Cliff Gerrish
The only problem with skipping RSS(/Atom) is that there is currently no other broadly adopted OPEN standard for pushing info out to those interested, other than email. Twitter is an optional proprietary complement, not a substitute for RSS.
- LogEx
I think you put too much faith in open standards :)
- Alex Scoble
and email
- Jesse Stay
Tina, I was just thinking that very thing. Also, LogEx, every time I think about skipping something like RSS I remember that my college-sophomore daughter relies on it heavily - and she basically thinks tech is something Daddies are for - and Moms only if it's a dire emergency - but certainly not Pricesses!
- MaryB, BrandingBroadOfFF
Jesse, yeah, email is kinda broked, but it's still the only thing that virtually everyone has.
- LogEx
Google Dashboard: Convenient? Yes. Transparency, Choice and Control? Not so much. http://michaelzimmer.org/2009...
Maxamad (Amazigh) and ovigia liked this
As I commented on GigaOM... "I haven’t seen anything jump out at me from the dashboard that wasn’t already available within two clicks of the “My Account” page [https://www.google.com/account...] before. But it is a positive sign that Google is making it easier, and hopefully it will be a wake-up call to some people about how many data eggs they have in one basket." [http://gigaom.com/2009...] But no, there don't seem to be any new capabilities, only aggregation.
- LogEx
Transparency, choice and control - now complete with a Dashboard! http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2009... - Google
Maxamad (Amazigh) and Travis Koger liked this
Confirmed that I've sold my soul to Google.
- Maxamad (Amazigh)
Lloyd Dobler Mob Invades New York For 'Say Anything' Anniversary - Cinematical - http://www.cinematical.com/2009...
Thomas Hawk, Kol Tregaskes, Craig Eddy and 14 other people liked this
"The 20th Anniversary Edition Blu-ray and DVD of Say Anything came out yesterday, and to mark the occasion, numerous men with lots of free time dressed up in trench coats and hoisted boomboxes above their heads and marched throughout New York City serenading people with the strains of Peter Gabriel's "In Your Eyes," and a cover version of the same song by The Lloyd Dobler Effect."
- LogEx
from Bookmarklet
Do You Skip Television Commercials or Let Them Roll? - TV - Lifehacker - http://lifehacker.com/5396026...
Kenton, Eoghann Irving, David Cook and 8 other people liked this
"Nielsen has recently reported that 46% of viewers aren't skipping the commercials on their pre-recorded DVR programs. That number seemed ridiculously high to us, so we're asking you: Do you watch, skip, or run to the kitchen on commercials?"
- LogEx
from Bookmarklet
Skip. Unless it'sa funny ad then I back up and play it.
- Gunny Wallen
We skip unless we forget that we're watching a show off the DVR, which happens quite a bit.
- Rochelle
Skip
- Thomas Hawk
from iPhone
I have TiVo so I skip. Once in a while a commercial will catch my eye and we'll watch it but ... 90% of the time, 30 second skip mania.
- AJ Kohn
Depends; if I'm not crunched for time (i.e., trying to get through as many shows as possible, or only have 45 minutes to watch a show), I'll often let them roll because it's less hassle than grabbing the remote and fastforwarding. Especially if I'm also doing stuff on the computer (which is most of the time), because then I can use the commercial break to give full attention to the computer briefly.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I think if you look in the dictionary under "self selection" you'll find a picture of this Lifehacker post. This just in: 99.99% of people who respond to polls on the web conducted by sites with "hacker" in their title use the DVR skip button...
- Ken Sheppardson
I only watch downloaded shows, so the answer is pretty obvious. ;)
- Jordi Soler
Skip unless it's particularly fetching as it whizzes by. I'll even pause the live broadcast 10 min or so to give me some zoom room to play with.
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
from iPhone
I'm in the skip unless column.
- jcunwired
If a commercial seems interesting, I'll watch it once. If it's really compelling/funny/whatever, I may watch it multiple times. (I actually recorded one of those Vertigo Crime spots on BBC America to show my wife.) But once I've seen it, and I'm done with it, I never want to see it again. I have no interest in being brand-beaten.
- Roger Benningfield
on DVR, Skippy McSkip. I do watch a lot of stuff live, tho, so I still see some commercials here and there.
- Chieze Okoye
Ha ha Ken, good point. I'm mostly a skipper, but some do catch my eye. I'll start shows late even if my schedule lines up with the broadcast just so I can skip. Some stations are making it more challenging by varying lengths of breaks, and putting short snippets within the breaks and after the credits.
- LogEx
I avoid them like the plague. I rarely watch commercial TV - thank goodness for the BBC! :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
I always skip them.
- Alex Scoble
Skip some... watch some... there are always some creative gems in that giant glob of commercials
- .LAG liked that
Half of the time, the commercials are better than what's on. That's when I actually bother to turn the TV on once or twice a month...
- Kamilah Gill
Let em roll. I pick a channel and stay there. All that flipping makes my brain hurt
- Lindsey is Fierce!
skip. (Unless the commercial is really good, and then I might watch it multiple times).
- Mitchell Tsai
I try to skip. But typically I end up cursing the "Live TV" notification that pops up in the corner. I then proceed to press the skip button over and over again, like it's going to help. It's that "maybe the elevator will get here faster" button pressing.
- Jason Huebel
I skip if I can.
- Carmen
Skip. I tried skipping through Monday Night Football last night. But it was, um, live.
- Derrick
skip
- Amber, Random Time Lord
Skip. I hate commercials.
- Ayşe E.
Skip most of them. Watch ones I think might be funny or interesting.
- David Cook
I skip them, but I notice that when my wife has the remote she usually doesn't bother. Of course she's much more inclined to watch stuff live than I am too.
- Eoghann Irving
skip.............fast forward as fast as I can............oh I failed to say I dvr one night and watch the next.............
- VAL D.
commercials? what are those?
- Joe Silence is not dead
If I'm watching with my kids I usually have to let them roll as they watch mostly for the ads (especially football). Otherwise I'll skip if I remember.
- Kenton
Fear and Overreaction http://www.schneier.com/blog... - Bruce Schneier
Dan Morrill AKA Techwag and ovigia liked this
"Far too often, we don't. We tend to be poor judges of risk. We overact to rare risks, we ignore long-term risks, we magnify risks that are also morally offensive. We get risks wrong -- threats, probabilities, and costs -- all the time. When we're afraid, really afraid, we'll do almost anything to make that fear go away. Both politicians and marketers have learned to push that fear button to get us to do what they want."
- ovigia
If I had a nickel for every time a can of worms has been opened in the past 24 hours... - https://friendfeed.com/search...
winckel, Holly Rae, FFer, VAL D. and 13 other people liked this
National Public Radio: Digital Data Make For A Really Permanent Record - http://www.privacylives.com/nationa...
Maxamad (Amazigh) liked this
"This segment in particular was a bit one-sided, with little to no presentation of alternatives or legal changes for more protection against secondary (not to mention fraudulent) uses of personal data. Even having sensitive “public” records, which used to require a visit to the local courthouse to access, widely available on the web, is a dramatic shift in social norms. Legal consumer protections are desperately needed."
- LogEx
@mrbelvedere What became of you?
Joe Pierce, Mark Wilson and Derrick liked this
I heard someone was killing his house pets.
- Mark Wilson
My Top Artists - Last 7 Days - http://www.last.fm/user...
Ayşe E. and Michael W. May liked this
1. The Asteroids Galaxy Tour (13); 2. Metric (12); 3. Hope Sandoval & The Warm Inventions (11); 3. Headlights (11); 5. Kraftwerk (8); 6. The Cure (4); 6. Nirvana (4); 8. Portishead (3); 8. Radiohead (3); 8. Lykke Li (3).
- LogEx
Absolutely love AGT, Hope (more in Mazzy), Cure, et al.
- Red Label
Red, have you heard the new Hope Sandoval album? I only have a couple of listens in so far, but I'm liking it a lot.
- LogEx
As Congress Considers State Secrets Reform, Obama Admin Tries to Shut Down Yet Another Warrantless Wiretapping Lawsuit http://www.eff.org/deeplin...
Omphaloskepsis? - http://ffffound.com/image...
Red Label, Michael W. May, Alix Whitmire and Jon, the Beartato of FF liked this
[FFFFOUND! | к сожалению, слово ХУЙ в этом журнале не редкость - Детали]
- LogEx
from Bookmarklet
O_o
- Derrick
Ummmmm???
- Bill Heslin
Very Clean? jealous?
- Bill Heslin
Navel-gazing is apparently a meditation technique.
- LogEx
Oh it's a Navel....;Nevermind....Lmao
- Bill Heslin
This is the part in Aliens where....
- Mo Kargas
I think it's LogEx 's belly button...rethinking LogEx...lol
- Bill Heslin
Oh no, mine's not that pretty.
- LogEx
mmm
- Michael W. May
Also has an innie -->
- Derrick
Haz a lintie -->
- LogEx
O_o
- Derrick
Alrighty then...I though pictures of feet/socks/shoes or kissing was gross and hideworthy. This ranks.
- Anika
Anika, I don't even know you anymore
- Michael W. May
I knew there was a word for it!
- Red Label
@logicalextremes Link for prior tweet (oops): https://friendfeed.com/logical...
RT @embee How to Really Browse Without Leaving a Trace http://lifehacker.com/5395267...
ovigia, Alex Scrivener and Tony, Paradox of FF liked this
Add'l tips not in the Lifehacker article "How to Really Browse Without Leaving a Trace"... (there are also some good tips in the comments of the article, but many go beyond the scope of the article, which is limited to [not] leaving traces behind on your local browsing machine... protecting from other leakage threats is in the advanced course ;)
- LogEx
Clear Cached DNS Entries on a Mac: dscacheutil -flushcache
- LogEx
Use Firefox to automatically and regularly clear system-wide Flash cookies (and DOM storage and click pings) with BetterPrivacy add-on: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US... Or, on a Mac, you can make a shell- Apple- or Automator-script to just blow away the whole "bootdisk:Users:user:Library:Preferences:Macromedia:Flash Player" directory periodically.
- LogEx
I Wanna Be Your Dog - http://vimeo.com/6820980
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No ID is required for credit card purchases. If a store says it is, they're violating their contract.
Kol Tregaskes, Iván Abrego, Anthony K. Valley © and 20 other people liked this
It happens rarely, but it really irks me when a store asks for ID to complete a credit card transaction. It happened to me today at an apparel merchant I won't specify here. It is a violation of their merchant agreement with the credit card issuer. You can choose it go elsewhere, try to get an exception or escalate it to their management, or cave in. But it is a good idea to report it to the credit card issuer: http://consumerist.com/333160... Stand up for your rights as a consumer or you may find those rights eroding.
- LogEx
If you're using a MasterCard and get asked for ID, you can report the merchant here: http://www.mastercard.com/us... Edit: I see the link is in that Consumerist article, too. LE, why is this in the Apple room, though?
- Rochelle
Umm...and this is exactly what's wrong with the credit card system. Stores should be required to verify your ID when you buy using a credit card.
- Alex Scoble
No they shouldn't Alex, the issuers have sophisticated fraud detection algorithms and specifically forbid the merchants from checking ID. This is a good consumer-friendly policy. Your card and signature are all that's necessary.
- LogEx
Given how many ways you can use a card without showing ID (online, gas pumps), having to show ID nowadays is rather pointless.
- Rob H.
Their sophisticated fraud detection algorithms are "we take responsibility for any fraud"...They still lose billions in dollars because retailers don't do their due diligence when ringing up sales. The scammers know exactly what stores are lax about their practices. We all pay because of this in higher interest rates and credit card fees.
- Alex Scoble
Key distinction: they cannot REQUIRE an ID, but they are not prohibited from REQUESTING it.
- Glen Campbell
That may be true Glen, but when they say it's store policy to show ID before the transaction can be completed, that's requiring. I have refused before and had the refusal accepted, and that's fine.
- LogEx
Having spent 6 months trying to get fraudulent changes out of my record and off my credit reports, I wish more merchants would verify ID.
- Glen Campbell
Visa's rules for merchants state: "Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance . Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID . Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures ."
- Ken Sheppardson
LogEx — only if they refuse to complete the sale without the ID. If you politely decline, and they proceed with the sale, no harm, no foul. But I still do not understand why you'd not want them to verify your identity.
- Glen Campbell
21 years as a retail manager: we've never required ID but we will ask in some situations. Stolen CCs are a major problem in this city. Asking for ID discourages those using stolen cards.
- Jack
I'm fine with ask, but don't require, as long as consumers are educated that they are not required. The transaction is what's important to verify, not identity.
- LogEx
Merchants usually have the right to refuse service. If they think something is fraudulent they have a right to ask. Based on your response they can refuse if they are not certain.
- Robert Higgins
Incorrect, LogEx. I've had fraudulent charges put on my card before with a completely different name. If the system was set up to link ID to CC # this type of fraud would not be possible.
- Alex Scoble
That's true and it is increasingly annoying to have stores seemingly require ID. Just say no.
- AJ Kohn
@Alex... "billions in fraud"? Do you have a citation for that. I pay no interest and only a minimal fee (in exchange for benefits). Also, ID is easy to forge too. There are no guarantees. The credit card companies know what they are doing. They know if the card is being used in a manner or place that is atypical enough to be potentially fraudulent.
- LogEx
I actually write "Ask for ID" in the signature space on the back of my cards. Technically, merchants are supposed to give the card back and ask me to sign it, but I've never had one do that. They just ask me for ID. I already have my wallet open, they look at the picture, look at me, then put the transaction through. I figure it won't stop a professional, but if somebody happens to find my wallet and it deters them at all from using the card, it's worth it.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, that's perfect if it works for you. My point is that it is not required and for those who do not like showing it, they should know they don't have to. Looking at it is one thing. But sometimes they want to do more, like scan it or enter the number into the register. That is completely unacceptable to me.
- LogEx
They do? Have you read the PCI standard? They don't have a real good clue of what they are doing. But they have a lock on a huge market with a lot of transactions that allows them to make a huge amount of money despite the high amounts of fraud they deal with so they eat it. To date it's been cheaper for them to pay for the fraud then to do anything reasonable about it.
- Alex Scoble
LogEx - you would think they would -- I had $14000 in fraudulent charges on my CC with 7 transactions over a 7 day period -- all through "purchases" at a hydroponics store in Petaluma. Until my wife alerted them the CC company had no idea. I live in Toronto btw and have never been to Petaluma.
- Brian Sullivan
Brian... but you were not liable for any of it.
- LogEx
The fraud number is in the billions as I said, LogEx.
- Alex Scoble
I still don't see the problem. Get a no-fee card and pay when it's due (if interest rates are bugging you).
- LogEx
No but I had to jump through hoops to deal with it -- I was in Paris at the time it was discovered -- the card was cancelled immediately. That left me with no credit card.
- Brian Sullivan
Yeah, Brian, that's why I travel with two cards now.
- Alex Scoble
Brian, I understand and can sympathize with the inconvenience. But I think it would be worse if we have a regime that requires ID to every merchant, large and small, honest and rogue… and that puts your ID info at risk and only helps identity thieves and other fraudsters.
- LogEx
The liability is not the problem. My card company did not require me to pay anything. They did, however, carry the charges and show me as severely past due on my credit reports until they finished their six-month "investigation" and cleared everything.
- Glen Campbell
I don't have so much of a problem with requesting ID. Its the minimum purchase amount to use a credit card that pisses me off. Explicitly not allowed yet so many businesses do it. I wish Visa would let me be an official spot checker for this so I could make a business stop or remove their ability to accept credit cards.
- EricaJoy
All my credit cards now are PIN based -- no ID or signature required. So that helps somewhat (until the PIN stealers catch up I guess) with direct purchases. Web purchases are still a problem though -- which is where the fraud came from on my card (or at least how the card information was stolen).
- Brian Sullivan
I worked with a CC company doing training a number of years ago and got the impression that the fraud detection algorithms and procedures were very strong. I found out to my dismay that they are woefully inadequate.
- Brian Sullivan
Yeah, I wish that temp card numbers were the norm and not an exception. Chase doesn't offer them, but BofA does, unfortunately, BofA charges a yearly fee for most of their cards, at least that I've seen.
- Alex Scoble
Credit card companies don't lose as much money on fraudulent credit card transactions as the merchants do, especially on-line merchants who can not collect signatures. The credit card companies consider the CVV2 number to be proof that the person who is asserting the card number is also holding the card (and even this falls flat for anyone who knows anything about security). Often...
more...
- Andy Bakun
Alex is right about the PCI standard; it's all about CYA on the part of the card issuers. Some of the things in there don't even make any sense. Off the top of my head, on the self-auditing questionnaire, they ask if you encrypt all credit card information for storage, then ask if you've delete all credit card information after the transaction is complete and don't store it. It's really bogus.
- Andy Bakun
Andy, I agree it's not merchant-friendly, but it is consumer-friendly (which to me is far more important). Merchants, and consumers, have a choice of whether to use/accept credit cards (consumers obviously more so). It is a broken oligopoly, but it works (well) for most consumers.
- LogEx
All I can say is, I've charged hundreds of thousands of dollars on my credit cards over the years in large stores and small, much on the internet, much while traveling. As you can imagine, I'm careful with my credit card and my other credentials. I've never had a bad charge. I'm open to better alternatives, but I strenuously object to ID being required at POS, it's worse for fraud than no ID. Fraud will never go away, but it can certainly be decreased.
- LogEx
Great. 1 data point, that confirms it.
- Glen Campbell
LogEx: true, as a consumer, I am much more concerned about consumer protection, I don't really care who else eats the cost of the fraud. But if anyone thinks that the card issuers are doing most of the eating and are not pushing the majority of it on to the merchants, they're mistaken. This is why we have not seen better card security features coming from card issuers: they don't have an economic incentive to avoid fraud better, and they leave the merchants' hands tied.
- Andy Bakun
Ah, here's one of them, from PCI DSS Security Audit Procedures. Requirement 5: Use and regularly update anti-virus software or programs. I notice that they've recently updated it to exclude systems not "commonly affected by viruses", such as UNIX based systems or mainframes, but it wasn't like that a few years ago. There was no way to answer this question honestly and still get 100% on...
more...
- Andy Bakun
Glen, it's not 1 data point. In general, the system works for consumers.
- LogEx
Andy, I have no argument on the merchant side. This is where the issuers use their power, and the market harms are done. Like I said, I'm open to alternatives for reducing the merchant issues, and fraud in general, but ID is not the right answer.
- LogEx
Mitigating Identity Theft - "Identity theft solutions focus much too much on authenticating the person. Whether it's two-factor authentication, ID cards, biometrics, or whatever, there's a widespread myth that authenticating the person is the way to prevent these crimes. But once you understand that the problem is fraudulent transactions, you quickly realize that authenticating the...
more...
- LogEx
@Brian Sullivan... being PIN-based, are they actually credit cards any more or now debit cards? I'm curious how that works, it's already confusing at some check-outs between credit, PIN-debit, and signature-debit.
- LogEx
They are still credit cards -- you have to be at the machine to enter your PIN just like a debit card but in all other respects it is a credit card. The only real issue is at places like restaurants where they normally take your card away. Now they bring a remote card reader to you in most places -- in some places you have to follow the server to a stationary machine somewhere. My understanding is that this has been quite common in Europe for a number of years.
- Brian Sullivan
Yeah, that's a good writeup, LogEx, but I disagree that it can't involve the account/card holder on any level. I've been waiting for years for a real-time transaction authentication that works via my phone. It can be effectively instantaneous. Swipe the card, you acknowledge the transaction via your phone (to a pre-configured phone number tied to the account). This would also put more consumer visibility into the process of credit card transactions. But why hasn't anyone implemented this?
- Andy Bakun
I have my photo on my credit cards that I use in public - that works well
- Susan Beebe
I feel showing my id protects me from identity theft. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I would like to have a cc with my pic on it. Which company does this?
- Bill Grubbs
I've had to ask people for photo ID a few times when their signatures have been almost rubbed off on their cards. It might be different in America, but if someone was to steal someones card and then sign for purchases and the real card's owner disputes the charges it is our store's responsibility to trawl through thousands of signatures slips and prove that I did all I could to ensure the transaction wasn't fradulent. That's why banks are (only now) trying to push PINs on people.
- Bryce, Low in Sodium
Visa wants to take away all barriers to using their card. Don't like it? Don't use it.
- Lindsey is Fierce!
actually, i haven't used Visa since 1999.
- Joe Silence is not dead
I'm with Alex here 100%. They should ask for your ID, I always give my ID with my credit card. There is no inconvenience is doing it, and it helps.
- Matthew DeVries
I always thank the clerk when they ask for my ID - Personally I think it is great and fully support that move.
- Dan Morrill AKA Techwag
If there is a scheme where people can opt-in, for example a checkbox on the card saying to check ID (which probably still won't happen 90% of the time), I'd be OK with that for those who want that. But ID is bad for a number of reasons... (1) IDs vary widely and are basically impossible for a retail clerk to validate, (2) IDs are quite easy to forge (see #1), (3) it puts your ID...
more...
- LogEx
Debit with PIN typically doesn't require ID, neither should credit with signature. The main point of all of this though was that retailers asking for ID are violating their contract, and consumers have a right to know that they cannot be compelled to show ID for a credit card transaction. Very few places try to check for ID, many places don't look critically at the signature stripe,...
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- LogEx
LE - But that simple step catches the "stupid crooks", the ones who will screw me for a $10 to $100 that I may never catch myself even happened. That's a good thing. The smart crooks, who make fake ID's and steal $1000s of dollars, the credit card company hels me with and will kill that person for me if they find them. It provides ZERO inconvenience. I'm just baffled that you are...
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- Matthew DeVries
The only photo ID most people have is their driver's license. It typically shows D/L#, DOB, full name and address, height, weight, license class, potentially some medical/living will information, plus mine has three distinct bar codes, one of them high-density (I don't even know what's in there, I'm not about to let a retailer scan and database them). It's too much of a personal intrusion, and it's explicitly forbidden by Visa, MasterCard, and AMEX.
- LogEx
Which is enough information for a person to establish that you are the person named on the card. All of that information should be on the credit card as well.
- Matthew DeVries
LE - If you don't want to share that moddest amount of information to allow everyone to be comfortable with the transaction, carry cash, or barter goods, or barer bonds, or have cashiers checks issued to the service provider.
- Matthew DeVries
No Matthew, I'm only standing up for the rights the issuers have given me via the agreements they make with their merchants. My issuers do not have most of the information that is on my ID, and I'd never want them to. People confuse identity with security.
- LogEx
No Matthew . . . if you're not comfortable that ID is not required for transactions then you should request Visa change their policy or not use them. The best way to avoid fraud is to not use credit cards period
- Lindsey is Fierce!
Then you should put up a post asking the CCCompanies to start requiring ID checks for all transactions, rather than standing up for a bad rule.
- Matthew DeVries
But why? I'm totally against that. I don't think ID helps anything, and in fact would be worse on the whole.
- LogEx
Why would I ask them to do that? I don't want them to require IDs
- Lindsey is Fierce!
If ID was required, or even allowed by the issuers, I'd move to other options like PIN-credit, temp/alias cards, and more use of cash. I still wouldn't use debit though, but that's another thread entirely.
- LogEx
I'm just totally lost on the logic of that thinking, to the point where I can't accept it's a real one, but just a contrarian one. So let's talk about this issue that we can all get on board with. Restaurants that make you fill in the tip and total and sign before giving you your receipt, and the cashier is often the exact same wait person who just served you, who will not watch you fill in her tip amount. I don't go to Bob Evans, Dennys, or IHOP any more because of this.
- Matthew DeVries
No, I am 100% serious and honest about this thinking, and clearly it's shared with many other consumers or the issuers wouldn't have such a stringent policy (there are other reasons for the poilcy as well I recognize... like ID isn't a good fraud prevention strategy).
- LogEx
Matthew, In restaurants that process like that (if I'm understanding correctly), if the situation is sensitive I typically leave a cash tip, and mark the receipt accordingly, just like I do for pizza deliveries.
- LogEx
Dr. Kelso: And guess what, Dr. Cox knows it, too. Although damned if he doesn't disagree with me just because I said it. J.D.: Sir, I don't think that's true. Dr. Kelso: Perry! It's hotter than hell in here! Dr. Cox: Freezing! Dr. Kelso: Great coffee, though! Dr. Cox: Rat piss! Dr. Kelso: Dr. Murphy is an incompetent suck-up. Dr. Cox: No, Bob. In fact, he's one of the finest young...
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- Matthew DeVries
Interesting thread. I didn't know about the "no ID required" policy. I understand arguments in favor of showing IDs. But honestly, it's rare that I *am* asked. And when I am, I'm suspicious as to why (Do I look distrustful? unable to afford to shop at their establishment?). I just don't believe an ID card is extremely effective against fighting fraud. I've been a victim of credit fraud....
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- jbrotherlove
++ jbrotherlove ...consumers are much much better protected against the repercussions of CC# being stolen than other identity data.
- LogEx
Do the terms of the contract expressly forbid the seeking of ID or do they simply remain silent on the matter?
- Matthew DeVries
They expressly forbid merchants from REQUIRING ID. They can ask, but not require. The event that prompted this post was a merchant who stated to me that they Required ID as a condition of the credit card transaction, even after I pointed out to them that it was a violation of their merchant agreement.
- LogEx
Chalk up more good Customer Service points for Apple...
winckel, Derrick, Bill Sodeman and 3 other people liked this
I walked into an Apple store today with an out-of-warranty iPhone that was (to me) obviously the victim of negligence (broken case due to a drop)...
- LogEx
Dude looked at it, said it wasn't really repairable, and gave me a brand new identical iPhone for no charge.
- LogEx
Really makes me wonder if they have some customer history/rating info available to them when they make their decisions. I have never had a bad experience at an Apple Store.
- LogEx
That (what, $100 to them? $200 tops?) iPhone is worth hundreds and hundreds in customer loyalty, future purchases and posts just like this. There's a reason why Apple Store's are the most profitable ventures per square foot in this country.
- Mike Nayyar
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple employees could pull up a customers Apple whuffie.
- Bill Sodeman
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