""The EU, in cooperation with the FBI of the USA, is launching a system of global surveillance of communications to combat "serious crime" and to protect "national security", but to do this they are creating a system which can monitor everyone and everything. The EU will be able to trawl the airwaves for "subversive" thoughts and "dissident" views and, with its partners, across the globe.""
- ovigia
from Bookmarklet
Melanie, that's cool, but why not put the Twitter widget next to the live video feed with results from that? Also, my close friends and family aren't on Twitter - Facebook is where you go to interact with close friends and family, and IMO the shuttle launch is something you sit down in the living room with that family and share a personal event. I think Facebook makes more sense. Regardless, there's no way to share that event with others on their site.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, my guess is that Nasa is such a large org with the right hand not knowing what the left is doing (sometimes - remember the inability of the diverse groups reading the report of Challenger's pre-launch to catch the O-ring problem?) that it just hasn't dawned on them that they could have done that. :)
- Melanie Reed
Melanie, I'm sure that's the case :-)
- Jesse Stay
Would it really be appropriate for our government to favor certain commercial social networks, at the expense of open systems and protocols? So many issues of rights, access, and ownership.
- LogEx
Wow - that's beautiful Melanie! It looks panoramic - I wonder how they got that fast a shot in a panoramic like that.
- Jesse Stay
LogEx, they already are - they have Yahoo on there as is. It's pretty hard to not favor someone these days. It's best they just pick the best tool for the job, as everyone else does.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, yeah, don't know but agree that it is quite an amazing shot. Did you click on the full size?
- Melanie Reed
Alright, that's it. I can't be wasting any more of my precious time on FF. I have things I need to get done, and the environment of yelling and inanity here is not helping me in any way. I wish you all the best of luck, but I am gone.
If I'm writing the date for sorting purposes, I always use big endian. Otherwise, I use mm/dd/yyyy. Sorry, you can't make me change. :-P
- Jason Huebel
Frankly, I think little endian is just as bad as the "American" way of writing dates. A date should always be written from largest to smallest unit of measure for sorting purposes.
- Jason Huebel
Oh and what about the stupid AM/PM shit? :-)
- Alexander Kruel
I agree that big endian should be the standard, Jason, but I think little endian is a little better than the American way as the numbers are at least sorted after "change frequency".
- Eivind
Do you agree with this? I tend to think that moving the Web toward faster load times and faster data transfer between services is a good thing in general, regardless of whether this benefits Google or not.
- Louis Gray
Yes, I agree, especially as per the new programming language mentioned in the article, it will shift the spectrum to their advantage, not overnight but slowly and surely, in large part due to the fact that they own so the most popular domains/real estate out there so if you wanna be a player in the game you'll have to speak the language. And don't forget it's computer operating system coming out shortly.
- sofarsoShawn
The anti-trust question will be whether it benefits Google to the detriment of its competitors, due to Google's market power. But of course the defense is that it's all open-source, so the playing field is level.
- LogEx
I find it disturbing how the genuine interest of Google engineers to make the user experience on the internet better is construed as something that could be interpreted as 'evil'. Now even open sourcing an experimental programming language some interested engineers were toying with is interpreted as hint for evilness.
- Henner Zeller
Henner, It has nothing to do with Google engineers and their genuine interests, it has to do with how Google will pay for said engineers. I've got no problem with faster load times, I'm just not sure it should be tied to page rank. If Google was non-profit we wouldn't be having this discussion!!
- Chris Myles
sometimes technology evolves slowly or stagnates as no player on the market is able to push a change strong enough to do a difference. its quite great to see a example where good engineers propose a logical improvement for all with the power behind it to make it reality.
- Marco Hennings
The idea is not whether Google is pure evil, but people need to start thinking about what they are doing. Creating "faster standards" and changing your search results rankings based on page load times is not a big deal, until you look at their search monopoly. Is it evil or possibly illegal? I am not sure, but they are definitely in a different position than they used to be. If we keep...
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- Rob Diana
Agree with Chris, not sure load time should be factoring in to page rank. That is the only thing in all these new initiatives that is a concern. It is biasing the game in favor of people who can afford the fastest infrastructure, not the people that put out the most interesting content.
- Ed Millard
As a user, I would rather see slow quality than fast crap. Good things come to those that wait. As far as 2 pages with the same content, I'd rather see the one with the better reputation, the original source of the content, with all the comments, than a splog that happens to be hosted on the faster blogspot and loads fast because there are no comments.
- April Russo (app103)
We don't like imperialistic governments, but hegemony from Google seems to be A-okay. Funny how nobody looks at the consequences for others, or longterm consequences for all, so long as their own immediate desires are satisfied.
- Dawn
Dawn, then what is this discussion we're having here, right now? is it not exactly what you're saying nobody does?
- Chris Heath
Okay, Chris, fair point. I just get very tired of reading all the "but, but, but's" thrown out for Google's sake. It's like a mother making endless excuses for her bullying brat. If it were Microsoft doing the things that Google has been trying to get away with (like grabbing all book and art "orphan works" for themselves, as just one example), there would be a much, much bigger outcry. The Tech world, including most tech bloggers, blindly protect Google like a favored son, no matter what they do.
- Dawn
GASP! Dawn, do you almost agree with me? Seriously, I feel like the only person complaining about this right now.
- Rob Diana
Henner said it right, they are trying to make things better, and we know that the current internet stack, from back-end languages to browsers, needs a major upgrade. Chris Myles, if Google was non-profit, uh, yeah -- we would def not be having this discussion. And for those who complain that speed should not factor into page-rank, I'm with you.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Wait, I think that most of you complaining about Google's "hegemony" missed LogEx's point about Open Source, which is a huge point. Go and SPDY (assuming it's open source) shouldn't even enter your equations as enabling a Google monopoly because they're all open source and it doesn't benefit GOOG financially in the slightest for Microsoft or whomever to use them (which they could just...
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- Chieze Okoye
Chieze, you're exactly correct - people do need to keep a watch on these types of things, but if you're getting all up in arms about Go and SPDY then you're not paying attention or worse, you're being disingenuous (i'm not directing this comment at anyone in particular, just pointing out the corollary to Dawn's point about blindly protecting... you can blindly attack too)
- Chris Heath
and Dawn, didn't microsoft try to get into this book deal thing and then bail out from it? yeah they did... so where was the uproar back then? there wasn't any... people are in agreement that these orphan works and public domain works need to get into digital form for preservation.
- Chris Heath
Chris, that is what I am trying to do, just pointing out what is happening and we need to be aware.
- Rob Diana
Sure is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding in this thread. Let's take a look at a more technical perspective on SPDY, shall we? http://www.mnot.net/blog... Key paragraph is "In other words, they seem to be positioning this as input to the eventual design of HTTP/2.0, WAKA or whatever, rather than a browser-specific push to define a new protocol alone."
- Jason Wehmhoener
Jason, I see. That's an informative post.
- Chieze Okoye
I'm glad that Dawn and Rob have their eyes open too. I have been the lone voice crying that Google is dangerous for too long. Seriously dangerous. They have far too much power over what the masses can find and can't and eventually possibly what even the wise can find. Even worse they can decide which businesses thrive and which die. They are in a position to put any online business...
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- Internet Strategist
The caution about Google may or may not be justified, but there is a lot of confusion in this thread about the technology being discussed. If you want to discuss the social/poltical/economic issues in concert with the technical issues, then it is advisable to be clear on how the technology actually works. If that isn't something you want to do, then leave the technology out of it.
- Jason Wehmhoener
"I have been the lone voice crying that Google is dangerous for too long." -- Please....
- Chris Heath
"The SelectaDNA Intruder Spray is proving to be one of the most effective ways to deter commercial burglaries and smash-and-grab raids. It can be fitted at multiple entry points of premises such as pubs, restaurants, corner shops, supermarket chains, jewellers, warehouses and petrol stations, immediately target hardening any building. Once activated, the DNA spray emits a burst of hi-tech forensic solution onto the offenders. The solution contains a UV tracer and a unique DNA code, linking them irrefutably to the scene of the crime. Traces of the DNA solution can be taken from the skin, hair and clothing of offenders, and sent away for forensic analysis to prove that they have broken into a particular premises. Although invisible and harmless, the UV and DNA will remain on an offender for weeks - clinging to fibres and sitting in creases of the skin. Police routinely scan for traces of SelectaDNA in custody suites, and if they find it, it could help Police to obtain a conviction."
- John E. Bredehoft
Looks like a good vector for framing someone too.
- LogEx
Well, if they've developed methods to frame people with real DNA, then they certainly can do it with this SelectaDNA stuff.
- John E. Bredehoft
"Darwin Now is a global initiative celebrating the life and work of Charles Darwin and the impact his ideas about evolution continue to have on today’s world. The British Council’s international programme of activities will mark the bicentenary of Darwin’s birth and the 150th anniversary since the publication of his landmark work ‘On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection’"
- Christopher A Carr
from Bookmarklet
Yeah, let's see what other ways we can promote the disavowed theory as dogma. Great job guys. Is anyone even looking for the missing link anymore or has it been so long that enough people just accepted the junk?
- Aaron Kendrick
Aaron, I'm very confused, what is this "disavowed" business?
- LogEx
@Aaron: there's millions of people who believe the other, completely unproven junk.
- Rene Wirtz
LogEx-Darwin disavowed his theory upon his death. Rene Wirtz-Sure, and I would love for there to be millions more. It's not about proving it, it's about accepting it.
- Aaron Kendrick
Aaron, a wild assertion like that deserves a source.
- Matt Mastracci
from iPhone
Aaron, that's a silly excuse... whether he did or not does not affect the ever-growing mountain of evidence supporting evolution. There is no other viable explanation for the facts.
- LogEx
Now look what you've done, Christopher! ;->
- Kurt Starnes
@Aaron: you are contradicting yourself. You don't believe in Darwin(ism) because the only thing that is unproven is the missing link, yet you believe in something that is completely and totally unproven?!
- Rene Wirtz
Miss Rene, there is no contradiction. In 150 years, there has been no evidence that conclusively proves that man wasn't created out of the earth by a Creator, aka God as is described in Genesis of the Bible. It was those "objective" scientists who set out to prove that the Bible isn't true. I believe that the Bible is the true, inspired Word of God. It was the scientist who set out to...
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- Aaron Kendrick
Whoah Aaron, where have you been? You claim you love science, yet you throw all science out the window in favor of a novel? And by the way, I ain't no miss :P
- Rene Wirtz
And by the by, since you say it has not be conclusively proven that man was not created by god, it has not been proven, at all, in no way, that anything god did or said or had written down is even remotely true. It is only based on faith, not knowledge, and if you truly do love science you must see the glaring lack of control. Since you assume that anything in the bible is true, you...
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- Rene Wirtz
Aaron, Rene is not a woman, first of all. Next, do any intelligent person around you a quick favor. Google ardipithecus ramidus and educate yourself.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
My apologies, Mr. Rene. As I stated before, there is no contradiction. It is not either or with me. Science is not dogma. I happen to believe the Bible. Science has yet to prove that it wasn't true. There has been no evidence based on the scientific method that we weren't created. The debate since scopes is about belief, not science. What proof has there been that man evolved from ape...
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- Aaron Kendrick
I am fed up with hearing about the science of how to make my sex better. Where is the science that shows unequivocally that the Bible isn't true and that we weren't created. 150 years is a long time with nothing to show. At least with celestial mechanics, there was some data to prove or disprove.
- Aaron Kendrick
Science doesn't seek to disprove anything, it only seeks to explain facts and make predictions. And the overwhelming consensus is that evolution explains and predicts the development of species over millions of years. BTW, belief or non-belief aside, many of the world's major religions do not find evolution inconsistent with their faith: http://pewforum.org/docs... I'm not...
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- LogEx
I believe this is the beginning of an exercise in futility.
- Kurt Starnes
On the contrary, the core of the Darwinism movement is to disprove the Bible and prove evolution. It has done neither. It hasn't predicted any new species, either. Over millions of years there should have been a new species by now. There are none with the exception of the dog and its varieties.
- Aaron Kendrick
Kurt, I think you are right. Aaron: No proof of evolution? No new species in millions of years? Where do you even get this stuff?
- LogEx
Again, Aaron, look up ardipithecus ramidus -- Darwin was both correct AND incorrect, in ways scientists could never have predicted. Next, look up www.importanceofphilosophy.com. I am *not* a follower of objectivist philosophy (I personally agree with a few components, but otherwise find it repugnant --however there are some things you might find interesting). Finally, I agree with Kurt, except that it's not the beginning. It was an exercise in futility from the outset. ;)
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
@Kurt -- *chortling* -- that brought a genuine LOL...I was wondering what life must be like for Dr. Dawkins in moments like this.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
I'm genuinely LOL'ing, too. :-) A good friend of mine and I had a discussion about what religions would survive the next 100 or 1000 years. We concluded that the ones which can adapt and accept new scientific developments stood the best chance. IMO, the Catholic Church fits this model fairly well, in many respects, and seems to have learned from some historic mistakes.
- Kurt Starnes
Good point. If nothing else, it's done well at killing off dissenters, and adapting ancient traditions into "Christian" rituals...and continues to do so.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
It's interesting that the Vatican appears to be preparing for a discovery of extraterrestrial life and how such a discovery will be folded into the belief system. That's some good planning! :->
- Kurt Starnes
Sorry for the diversion, Christopher! Take care folks - enjoyed the chat! G'night.
- Kurt Starnes
Pssst. Things never get more complex on their own, they get simpler. Darwin's basic idea was way flawed. Just because Darwin chickened out doesn't add or take away from the theory. Ardi was a lemur. Calling the Bible a "novel" is dismissive and unproductive. I can call Origin of the Species a satire but it won't help or hurt the logic of my argument. LogEx said something close to...
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- Jeremy
The other issue I wanted to address (briefly) was Darwin's (FALSE) disavowal. It never happened. "For many years, such a story has been circulated. It frequently appears in church bulletins, almost always under the byline of one of those three famous writers of our generation: “Mr. Selected,” “Mr. Anonymous,” or “Mr. Copied.” No doubt those who propagate the story mean well. But,...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Denise, I have already provided Aaron in an earlier discussion with what I assumed would be a credible source to him, explaining that Darwin never disavowed his theory (Answers in Genesis: http://www.answersingenesis.org/article...). I think he (as well as a lot of others) have already decided what they believe about that no matter what. It...
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- Eivind
You're quite likely right, Eivind....I just can't read something so idiotic and not respond with an attempt at reason (which is often akin to trying to reason with a drunk...*sigh*) This is actually my first time (to my knowledge) discussing anything with Aaron - and the only reason I chose to say anything at all is that for some reason it really annoys me when people call Rene a "Miss"...LOL
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
I was never offended by Aaron calling me miss, it has happened before, it will happen again. But, clinging to a novel (I will keep calling it a novel, a poorly written one at that, because there is nothing in it that even comes close to being observable, testable, repeatable and falsifiable, it's all hearsay at best, like a bad game of Chinese Whispers) and stating it has more proof...
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- Rene Wirtz
Well, it just irks me, Miss Rene...lol...anyway, got to thinking too (sorry, Aaron, I don't mean to pick on you), but Aaron, you said, "150 years is a long time with nothing to show"...uhm, have you actually *looked*? There is a really interesting book out there called "The Jesus Mysteries" -- I don't agree with the authors' ultimate direction of the book, but they present quite a bit...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Oh yeah, I know of these two. They are truly hostile to anything religious or Christian. They use a lot of straw man arguments to dispel myths that weren't even myths purported by any religious group, pagan or otherwise. Not to put too fine a point on it, but no one should really so much hope into any hypothesis just because it agrees with a worldview of hostility to any religion or...
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- Aaron Kendrick
Actually, if you're referring to Freke & Gandy, you couldn't be more wrong. Unless you've read the book, and cross-checked their sources for yourself, then you're undercutting your own argument. They're not remotely unfriendly to christianity. At all.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
*shrugs shoulders* dunno, I'm using a microsoft one right now but I'm not too impressed with it's ergonomics (or maybe I just have big hands and you know what they say 'bout that), but, my last logitech one was MUCH better, actually I would, I would recommend to start there, they're specialized in that field. Cuz it all really depends on what you're looking for in a mouse, some of them are so advanced now they'll walk your dog.
- sofarsoShawn
I really like having 2 buttons under the thumb and the only ones I found that did that for mini mice are Trust. Cheaply priced but pretty good!
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
sofarsoShawn is right microsoft mouse aren't good: uncomfortable logitech are the best in horizontal/conventional mouse: ergonomic but best still would be a vertical mouse. never go in for mini/small/made for laptop mouse they are uncomfortable at first place if you rely heavily on mouse small mouse means evident pain
- ffcode
Do the mini mice have a specific name? :-) Apart from "small mouse". ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
@Kol, I have the MS 8000 and 5000. Advantage of the 5000: uses laptop's onboard BT. Drawback: sometimes takes a long time to wake up, sometimes needs to be repaired. It's a pain. I switched to the Logitech Nano and simply leave the mini dongle plugged in. http://www.logitech.com/index...
- Stephan Planken
I have gone back to wired since batteries going down at the wrong time are just too much of an annoyance but the Trust ones exist with the mini wireless usb dongle and normal and bt and cable, and in optical or laser etc. http://trust.com/product... I've had this little guy wireless and wired: http://trust.com/product...
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
one thing i love Trust for and I have no idea why nobody else does it: on their products is always printed the URL for the drivers page - eg: trust.com/15139 - So logical and helpful to the user
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
I use the Logitech MX400 laser mouse and I'd recommend it to anyone. In any case, I'd never buy a mouse without laser tracking anymore. It has two thumb buttons, something which I'd also would not want to live without. They're just too convenient as forward/back buttons for web browsing. I think carrying a regular mice with you is worth it, considering the extra comfort during use....
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- Meryn Stol
Kol, I see you're considering a bluetooth mouse. I have very bad experience with bluetooth mice. At least the times I tried, the tracking performance was *way* below that of corded and radio mice. It may even be something intrinsic to the Bluetooth protocol, because I can't believe engineers would be proud of delivering such awfully performing mice. The only advantage is having no dongle, but you pay dearly for it. For me, tracking performance (resolution, responsiveness) trumps every other concern.
- Meryn Stol
I bought the G-Cube mini optical mouse and love it!
- Citronella
Another word and the forces will abolish all forms of Cilantro on this planet called Earth, message received from Planet Janet
- Janet
Message to Planet Janet: you know you love it with cilantro, baby.
- Steven Perez
Now see this is the interesting thing: if anybody posts, then you have to. So if everybody keeps posting, you'll just have to keep up with us. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
- CAJ, somewhere else
pffft. Those who pit Sesame Street monsters against one another do not understand the spirit of the show; therefore, your argument is invalid.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
pffft. Those who pit Sesame Street monsters against one another do not understand the spirit of the show; therefore, your argument is invalid.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
pffft. Those who pit Sesame Street monsters against one another do not understand the spirit of the show; therefore, your argument is invalid.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
pffft. Those who pit Sesame Street monsters against one another do not understand the spirit of the show; therefore, your argument is invalid.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
pffft. Those who pit Sesame Street monsters against one another do not understand the spirit of the show; therefore, your argument is invalid.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Does Elmo like triangles as much as Telly? I THINK NOT. Therefore, Telly > Elmo.
- Steven Perez
from IM
I CAN ATTEST THAT PEA IS, IN FACT, ALL SUGAR AND SPICE AND EVERYTHING NICE. Argue that, and let's see how mean you really wanna be. In the meantime, my head hurts so discuss this amongst yourselves. You can summarize it for me later.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Debating tip: never try to get in the last word. Always give your opponent the opportunity to get in the last word. By some sort of mysterious karmic law, your persuasiveness will improve immeasurably. :)
- Sean McBride
Steven Perez isn't a Bunneh!!! As long as he doesn't respond.
- Jimminy
This is a point that can never be proved, nor disproved until all but one of us are dead.
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
So... it's kind of like a "tontine" but with a pretty weak payoff?
- Mark Jepsen
Hmmm, actually, it only needs to continue until Steven Perez is dead (of very old age, i of course hope). Our victory is guaranteed. Of course, if friendfeed gets eaten by fb, it's just going to be a race to get the last comment in before the site goes down.
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
It's okay, he's got a Catch-22 now. Steven Perez isn't a Bunneh, so long as he doesn't respond. And we all know he refutes his Bunneh status.
- Jimminy
It was real hawt in the town that night! IF I EDIT 18 hours later like now - is your last still last if comments are disabled? A hawt question.
- L Stephen Cleary
Steven is a Bunneh!!! He responded when I said he wasn't. Bunneh's can win if they want.
- Jimminy
Steven, I'm sure that not even you would resort to cheating to get the last word. I vote we just find the comment limit. It's gonna be a number ending in '0'
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
You did see where I said that I like my food scared and running, yeah? Mmmmm, ferret-ka-bobs ...
- Steven Perez
from IM
I do indeed see where this is headed, and no sir, I don't like it. *calls upon the forces of Voltron
- Tsali, The Native of FF
from IM
Sadly, the only Voltron to heed your call is the vehicle Voltron. And I disabled that yo-yo by pulling out the sparks plugs in the car feet.
- Steven Perez
from IM
very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy
- Steven Perez
from IM
VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY
- Steven Perez
from IM
I think friendfeed only put the extra "Add comment" link at the bottom of threads because of this specific thread. It took me a full 20 seconds to scroll from one end of it to the other.
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
hmm... 800+ comments on this thread, and this is my first, and probably last comment on this thread. I wonder should I read all the comments, or just post?
- Mike Nencetti
Are you guys still trying to win?
- Steven Perez
from IM
23 years from now, Steven will still check his MSGoogle MyFriendFace feed every morning so he can respond to this post with 3,137,783 comments...
- Joe....
from iPod
After half a month there must have been moment you thought it would not be a real big deal if you eventually should NOT have the last word, I suppose?
- Ruud van Wijngaarden
Now that you've nearly reached 1100 comments, I realized that I hadn't officially "liked" this yet! Error rectified, though you're clearly a comment whore, you show great panache while doing so!
- Mark Jepsen
Ohhh, you mean that place, which is totally faked by a #viciousbunneh who was in cahoots with the government in taking all the alfalfa plants into an underground hidden bunker.
- Tsali, The Native of FF
I will allow you to have the last word. But to take that last word you are surrendering your honor to a den of sightless whores.
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
Eventually, the whole thread will go backwards to the beginning.
- WorldofHiglet
That sounds like more fun than I imagine you wanted it to.
- Steven Perez
from IM
It was a test. Honor is pride. A den of sightless whores is merely an event that you will carry forever. You have attained the 7th level of enlightenment.
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift