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Louis Gray
How Are Tech Bloggers are Leading the Marketing 2.0 Revolution? Find out here:
Jeremiah Owyang, Robert Scoble, Mark Silva and Kevin Marks are on a panel at the San Francisco American Marketing Association this evening, hosted by Mark Evans: http://www.friendfeed.com/markeva... - Louis Gray
The focus: Businesses from restaurants, to retail, to service businesses all share the commonality of seeing their customer face-to-face. As this provides some of the best positioning to capitalize on social media opportunities, the question becomes how come so few are taking advantage of the Web 2.0 tools to help drive sales? - Louis Gray
Mark Evans: We are going to change with the times and start to be more open source -- including the community in what we are doing, so we can be the hub of marketing in the Bay Area. - Louis Gray
Mark Evans: In the next few months, there will be a lot of events around social media, and partner events/seminars. - Louis Gray
Louis: Are you attending? - Sheryl
Sheryl, I am hiding in the back where I quietly can type and go unnoticed. *Yes* - Louis Gray
Now introducing the panelists... Kevin Marks first, Jeremiah Owyang, Mark Silva, and Scoble goes last. - Louis Gray
good job louis keep it up - Allen Stern
isnt mark evans in canada? - Allen Stern
Robert moderating: When I started blogging 9 years ago, Dave Winer said we should blog from conferences. Google was new back then and I could only find two other blogs. Now there are conferences on Twitter, a form of blogging... - Louis Gray
Robert: It used to be just friends talking to each other, and we would talk on our blogs about what we were doing in life and how disappointed we were that we were all laid off in the downturn, and now we are in another downturn. - Louis Gray
Robert: Techmeme is where I go to find the hottest tech news that is happening. Now I find Google blog PR and now MG Siegler from TechCrunch - a news blog. (pulled up on his iPhone) and PR announcements from YouTube, etc. Over 9 years we have changed from a bunch of guys talking on the new system, laid off and tired of the world... - Louis Gray
Robert: Now the geeks that were showing up at the blogger dinner (Mena Trott starting the software of Moveable Type) has a company... Brad Fitzgerald of LiveJournal was there and on and on. I think I got the opportunity to moderate the panel because blogging is changing. Now it is PR and news stuff - which isn't as useful. - Louis Gray
FYI - Allen, this is Mark Evans in the Bay Area, not the Mark Evans of Canada. - Louis Gray
Robert: Now we have linking rules. If you work for Mike Arrington, you can't link to Mashable. I notice a lot of corrosive effects. Bloggers aren't talking about how to do things, they are talking about the stuff of the day, or who died today. That wouldn't be talked about 8 or 9 years go. Blogging has changed and it has left a hole for a new kind of tech blogger. - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: This is a natural evolution. The more mainstream social media gets, the more it looks like mainstream media. Robert is trying to use the new tools, always trying to find what's next. This is a natural evolution. - Louis Gray
Robert: The early brands were not brand-averse, but they were averse to marketing. The voices are not being heard as much. The interesting insight and dirt isn't coming out. Apple is a great example of being secret, prepared and buttoned up. The system has conformed, and we are going to new places to tell each other what we think. - Louis Gray
Kevin: Here we are going over and over again. I worked for Technorati so I can take the guilt for the Top 100 being there. It changes all the time. The long tail distribution that we have all seen and heard about... there have been changes. Watching the Technorati 100 you could see big changes but also a giant spread of hundreds of millions of blogs that talk about different stuff. - Louis Gray
Kevin: Techmeme is an illusion of what's on the top. - Louis Gray
Kevin: You had the idea of subscribing to feeds, but you couldn't do a keyword search to see what some people like. Now you follow a person and say they are interesting and I will follow them. Now social networks are letting you friend and follow. Some of it is heavy social make me feel good stuff. (Kevin is having dinner in SF), but half is following people who are interesting, and you build a sense of trust that draws on a human sense of trust of knowing a person. - Louis Gray
Kevin: What we find is that we are moving from a world where advertising is a recommendation from someone trying to influence you who you don't trust. Celebrities are halfway fake friends people you think you know, but they can serve a purpose too. - Louis Gray
Robert: In the early days of blogging, nobody paid me, and nobody sent me products. Now there are people being paid to blog, like by IZEA. Virgin America took people on a flight to write about the new flights. People see the value in this world, and 9 years ago, they didn't have a clue in this world. What do you think of this trend? - Louis Gray
Robert: What do you think of the corrosive effect of trust? - Louis Gray
Mark: Why you see so many press releases and other brands like Google, Apple - there is a reason why PR got into social media and blogs, because 100% of their compensation comes from agency fees, not non-working dollars. - Louis Gray
Louis: So you're the unpaid stenographer? LOL Nice! - Sheryl
Mark: Every time I create an agency that looks like it is working media, that looks like agency fees are creeping. People who own brands and marketers out there is we need to change how we look at social media in general. You have to act differently, categorically. - Louis Gray
Mark: I disagree with Kevin directly in terms of an advertiser not being someone you want to hear from. - Louis Gray
Mark: I think that brands are going to understand how to act in a trustworthy way. The best thing a brand can do is solve customers' problems - providing a solution to a problem. Part of paying bloggers to do things is old behavior. - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: Robert is paid to do blogging. So if he feels it is bad behavior... - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: He doesn't promote his employer as much as some other bloggers, and he doesn't do sponsored posts. (Robert) - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: Often I will write to bloggers or bigger Tweeters and their assistant will respond. - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: We did research and asked consumers who they trust. 90% said "people like them". Under 10% trusted corporate blogs. - Louis Gray
Mark: That's because they are operating like corporate blogs. - Louis Gray
Kevin: How do you push back on Robert's brand? He is a person. - Louis Gray
(Jeremiah says Robert is a brand and points to the Building 43 shirt) - Louis Gray
Kevin: To call it a personal brand is to take away that person. He is trustworthy. - Louis Gray
Mark: The best brands act like people. If you take a look at corporate brands, a company like Foster Farms... how many of you know about Ron Foster? It is an amazing company with homespun, human values. I want to be part of that family. There is a personal side of the brand that a lot of companies have. People come in with passion for the brand, like JetBlue, Comcast, etc. - Louis Gray
Mark: The more that brands can act like people on Twitter, it personalizes that. - Louis Gray
Kevin: When you go to Google you are querying a machine and asking for a machine response. On Twitter, you want a human response. If you get an automated response... - Louis Gray
Kevin: When you type something into Twitter it is a very different thing. You are expressing emotion, and you are joining a human conversation. If you speak in a tacky way, they will respond in a tacky way. - Louis Gray
Kevin: It is the inversion of a call center - where people are turned into machines. Social sites like Twitter say to be human and respond to these people. - Louis Gray
Kevin: A lot of this is rethinking it and can we make it more personal, a source of emotional signals for things that you care about. - Louis Gray
Mark: An emotional thing where brands can live. - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: How many of you paid a blogger or gave them a product, or took them on a trip or gave them money or a gift certificate? (Five hands in the room go up) - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: This is happening all throughout media in the history of the industry. This is something that at Forrester, we think is okay to do, so long as it is transparent, and the editorial is authentic. However, most brands are insensitive to it. - Louis Gray
Robert: I was at a HP event where they brought out a new printer, and they had a Twitter search, and they seeded PR people to add to the stream with positive tweets. We were pretty adept at finding the seeding. - Louis Gray
Mark: did you call BS on it? - Louis Gray
Robert: I just did. We also didn't quite figure it out until just after, when we were comparing notes. - Louis Gray
Mark: It's a headfake. A lot of the time is to be found by the search engines. I agree there are a lot of social filters we are looking for because the algorithm is coming up short. - Louis Gray
Kevin: The bloggers publish a lot and they link a lot, and it can be problematic. If you search for me, you will only find me. There are other Kevin Marks. - Louis Gray
Robert: I am the #2 Robert in the world, higher than Robert DeNiro and Robert Kennedy. Google is our new reality. - Louis Gray
Mark: That's the new reality. What's the oldest tool humans have ever used? An axe? If you search for Axe on Google, you will get the Axe brand and on images, it will be Axe imagery. They have taken over that world, by impacting social media, and redefining that word. That's their reality. - Louis Gray
Audience member: Wikiality - the reality that we believe in. If enough of us make the suggestions in Google, it becomes the reality and it is an important concept. - Louis Gray
Audience member 2: To Kevin - I don't hear your accent when you blog. But this doesn't work unless the average schlub is participating in this conversation. There is an asynchronous set of assumption of expectations. How do we balance that out because people engage enthusiastically for their own reasons, not to schill for their brand. - Louis Gray
Kevin: By the way marketing guys, all this standard stuff like the press release is going to look old. - Louis Gray
Kevin: When Michael Jackson dies, what you see is emotional outpouring of your friends, not the media's interpretation of that. - Louis Gray
Robert: The person who took the best photo in Iran took that photo and was in FriendFeed a few hours later, talking about it. Now they are in jail. I have never had a conversation with a Pulitzer Prize award winner who was in an event like that. - Louis Gray
Robert: There was somebody on Twitter who had a conversation with the doctor of Neda. We can participate in the news without having to go through filters and media. - Louis Gray
Robert: Now the PR people can talk directly to us, like through Techmeme, instead of through Walt Mossberg. - Louis Gray
Mark: There are a lot of things that marketing will do that won't have a compelling event. There's nothing like the brief that says, "make it viral". It's bad. - Louis Gray
Mark: We are trying to take a potential for relevance. We know events will happen, like holidays and an election, which brands can anticipate. - Louis Gray
Mark: Part of what we are doing is trying to gain potential for relevance. - Louis Gray
Mark: Part of what we are doing with microformatting and social media spaces is the potential to become relevant, and be driven by demand. - Louis Gray
(Jeremiah looking down at his cell phone) - Louis Gray
Kevin: If you think of organic growth, and how that works, there are strategies to spread information in different ways. The plant has a seed that turns into something tasty that you can carry around and put somewhere else. What if you have a message that people will want to give to their friends? - Louis Gray
Kevin: What kind of campaign am I doing. Am I trying to nurture something that will grow? - Louis Gray
Audience Member: What about Verizon talking to the New York Times talking about customers? What about using real word of mouth conversations by consumers from forums? - Louis Gray
Robert: One of my favorite bloggers, Steve Rubel, is getting out of blogging and will be doing lifestream. - Louis Gray
Kevin: Back in 2001-02, blogs are what we had. I could post it to the Web and get comments. - Louis Gray
Kevin: What happens is those practices have now spread out and are going to other places. The idea of activity streams is a unique one, and you can see that in Twitter. - Louis Gray
Kevin: There is this idea of I am doing something, and I want it to flow somewhere else. It is the same practice as blogging, but it is now something else. The point is that if you want to think about network architecture, a lot of people assumed it was more download than upload, and they got it backwards. - Louis Gray
Kevin: We are now shifting to where we upload more than we download. You can take photos with things in your pocket. You can send up more than you can download. - Louis Gray
Robert: YouTube has said mobile uploads have increased 400% in the last 7 days, thanks to the new iPhone 3GS. - Louis Gray
I've gotten approached a few times to do paid blog posts (haven't yet - will disclose if I ever do) - Jesse Stay
Robert: The marketing of the future will have to create events that capture distribution. Obama's inauguration almost took down the Internet. - Louis Gray
Robert: Obama's inauguration was a video event, where people were streaming live video over the Internet. In contrast, Twitter and Michael Jackson is only 10 Gigs a day. - Louis Gray
Mark: When we set up Twitter accounts for our client, not all followers are equal. Some have super influence. If you do set up a Twitter and Facebook class, consider a concierge class, and shine light on someone who will speak passionately. - Louis Gray
Mark: The @ Sign and DMs are very important for communication and a back channel. - Louis Gray
Mark: With 10 people, we reached a million and got 1,000 responses, from fans that have super influence and a high affinity for you, who will come to your aid if a brand is under attack. - Louis Gray
This whole blogging thing has gotten me thinking like a marketer quite often. Before I figured marketing was just a career I wasn't interested in and had little to do with. Now I know the rudiments of online marketing and actively use them to better engage my desired audience. - Daniel J. Pritchett
Mark: We have a lot of brands on auto-follow, which is fine. We couldn't do it in e-mail before. We never knew what would happen, but now we can see that in real time. - Louis Gray
So I see a post like this and I'm thinking "pfft, marketing" and then I remember "oh yeah, Marketing!" and so I'm still reading. - Daniel J. Pritchett
Robert: You could see the spread with a Web bug in email, but you could never get the emotion in an e-mail. - Louis Gray
Kevin: My job is not to be an evangelist, it's to be a product advocate. That was a very deliberate choice. - Louis Gray
Kevin: I need to get a sense of what is going on, and gain a message to convey for a complex set of standards, and can I explain it. - Louis Gray
(Audience member asks Mark about the social aspect of Foster Farms) - Louis Gray
Mark: You'll see. The brand people, PR people, IT people are involved... everything takes longer as a result. We will be expressing the human side of the brand, and like Forrester said, how people go to people. - Louis Gray
Mark: We heard from moms how that would change their perception. A brand is a premium between commodity, and through emotion, a fair price that a marketer needs to earn. - Louis Gray
(Follow-up: How do you get conversations that are valid, not a stunt) - Louis Gray
Mark: We came up with a communication strategy that will add value to the moms. We can create an impact that is significant that will happen right at grocery. They are trying to understand the effect, not just impression and buzz. How can they effect sales? - Louis Gray
I'd imagine "valid" conversations involve some sort of threading or aggregation so individual commenters can see and respond to one another. In other words, FF threads over tweets flying past each other unknowingly. - Daniel J. Pritchett
Robert: I just interviewed Gary V of WineLibrary TV. They were not going to grow their local market much more, so he started to do the video show. He creates the need in your head for a product that you didn't know you wanted. He has a social network, where you can argue, is he telling you the truth? - Louis Gray
Mark: Most marketers should follow Gary just to learn about marketing. He can drive nuggets of what he does and why he does it. - Louis Gray
Robert: TechCrunch is doing video with a lot of its posts now. Creating an experience that looks good on a flip cam is a different experience than creating text on a blog. - Louis Gray
These are the perfect participants for this panel. - Jesse Stay
(BTW - I am not getting every word and sentence. Call it live editing) - Louis Gray
Audience Member: Social media has fundamentally changed marketing. But brands understand products and services, but they don't understand how products are used in the real world. Those companies that do social well use their own products. - Louis Gray
Robert: The common thing I see between companies doing well in this space is that they have set up their whole system is to do something remarkable that is becoming social. You have the best service. (Examples: Zappos and Tiny Prints) - Louis Gray
Robert: Zappos forces every new employee to Twitter. During your training period, you have to Twitter, so you can be empowered to represent your brand in public. The janitor is never ever going to talk about the company. Look at Apple! At Zappos, everybody can talk on behalf of the company. - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: There is a danger at looking at what consumers say and having that drive your company, because that looks at the last three products - not the future. Tony at Zappos can do that with his company, but that's not going to happen at Hitachi. - Louis Gray
Mark: I don't care if you have 10 people or 1,000 people, it is very hard to do that. - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: If you build your product based on what Robert likes on his blog, then you make him happy, but it might not be smart. - Louis Gray
Audience Member: If you look at FriendFeed, Robert is a very passionate user, but they cannot listen to him because he is different, and it hasn't yet crossed the chasm. - Louis Gray
Audience Member: Sometimes the loudest user seems like the only user. We get a lot of mixed reviews, but there will be 200 reviews, and 1/3 are bad, not because it is a bad place, but because there aren't that many people reviewing. If you have a Google or YouTube, it is going to come out in the wash. - Louis Gray
Mark: One of the big ideas we are bringing to our clients is to help facilitate our brand ambassadors. A lot of conversations can come to your Web site. How does a small company understand that in a world of hundreds of million dollar or billion dollar brands? In the long tail, somebody has built a blog post about it. - Louis Gray
Robert: That's what I am doing with Building 43: Is trying to reach out to businesses that are not embedded in the social Web yet. - Louis Gray
Kevin: There's also the problem of knowing somebody I can trust. The two paths that are coming are geographical filtering, and through friends. How can you get recommendations from people you actually trust? - Louis Gray
Kevin: If you look at things that are easy for people to understand. (Example: FourSquare) You get points for saying you are at places. There is this idea of rewarding people for making social actions, to learn where their friends are. - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: You should be searching for people who have a certain lifestyle. (Fish where the fish are) - Louis Gray
Audience member: If you want to be relevant, your brand needs to provide value. The biggest mistake people are making is that they are pushing their brand and not adding value, but they are not engaging. - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: If your restaurant set up all the events on Upcoming, you will be associated with it. - Louis Gray
Mark: The best thing you can do is set yourself up to be the best friend of the user. - Louis Gray
Robert: There is a taco truck in LA that tweets its location on Twitter and sells out every single day. - Louis Gray
Audience member: I do my research on Twitter because I don't want to go to Google and find dead links or outdated links. - Louis Gray
Robert: Have a sign in your store and say, "Are you a Twitter user?" Everybody is going to follow you who you tweet about. They are going to see that in their Twitter and their referral logs. - Louis Gray
Mark: Your @ and Your /name is the new dotcom. I think you can do the @ and let the insiders know you are out there. Businesses have to learn how to do that. - Louis Gray
Audience member: Do you know examples of B2B and partnering space that have had successes? - Louis Gray
Jeremiah: Your trick at Cisco is to create marketing materials that are useful for your channel partners and sales force (interrupted by audience member) - Louis Gray
Kevin: If you have a set of information, get people to respond to that. You need someone who can provide the expertise to the channel. - Louis Gray
*Panel concludes* - Louis Gray
Good work Louis! - Daniel J. Pritchett
Mark Evans: The next event in August will be about why Marketing and PR suck with Guy Kawasaki, Scoble.... oh ... Louis Gray too. :) - Louis Gray
Louis Gray? That name's familiar... - Daniel J. Pritchett
Pretty hard to hide in the back of the room when the entire panel is on FriendFeed. :-) - Jesse Stay
Thanks for covering this. It was an interesting read. Parts of the discussion reminded me of that Mark Zuckerberg interview by Sarah Lacy. That was the first moment I realized that we (the internet users that have been posting to forums, blogs, etc. for years) can no longer sit back and passively consume information. We expect the freedom to speak up and have been conditioned to believe our thoughts are valuable. I think companies should cater to that belief. Use technologies like FF to engage customers in real-time conversations that make them feel important, which in turn will foster a more personal bond with the brand and instill a deeper sense of loyalty. - Chip Ramsey
Louis: great notes! Thanks for doing that. - Robert Scoble
Really great job live friendfeeding. that's the first time I've ever said that. "Live friendfeeding" - Jeremiah Owyang
Thanks Robert and Jeremiah for participating in the panel and commenting here. FriendFeed is a great tool for live blogging, and very flexible. Note I took this thread and posted it to louisgray.com as well when completed. - Louis Gray
Interesting thoughts - - I wrote about Marketing 2.0 some time ago here: http://www.societal-web.com/blog... - William Buist
Louis - thank you for doing this "live friendfeeding." Great to finally meet you in person last night and look forward to you being on the panel in August. - Bill Sanders
Thanks for doing these great notes, Louis - I should take Jeremiah's advice and blog more myself - Kevin Marks
blogging as we know it is dying...it's evolving to be a bigger value chain of activities... - John Furrier
Louis: Thank you so much for coming out last night! And, WOW! thank you for taking incredible event notes. - Mark Evans
Great "FriendFeed Casting" thread by @Louis Gray of Am.Marketing Association event panel incl. @JOwyang @Scobleizer - Alex Schleber