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Lydia Dishman
Freelance features writer covering business, travel, food and style for magazines and web.
Atlantic's case-study of our post-journalistic age http://www.theatlantic.com/doc... #editorchat
#editorchat starts in a few minutes join us at www.friendfeed.com/editorchat
Another great edition of #editorchat. Take a peek at the blog for links to the stories we mentioned www.editorchat.net
Thanks for co-hosting, Lydia. :)
- Jen Nipps
Agreed. Retweeting that now.
- Tim Beyers
Q 3 for the book publishing folk: Should aspiring authors assume they’ll self-publish first? #editorchat
Dear Lord, I hope not!
- Georganna Hancock
Taken from the ReadWriteWeb analysis, which I thought was well done. Self-publishing is becoming the farm team for major publishing houses. More risk-shifting.
- Tim Beyers
Q3 - Not necessarily. The might have to start with small presses first, but I doubt they'll have to self-publish. (That's me. I have a small press/POD wanting a book of devotions once I get the blasted thing finished.)
- Jen Nipps
Given the way advances are going in traditional publishing, self-pushing is starting to look better.
- Erik Sherman
Depends what you mean by self-publish. There are a lot of options. Do you mean through one of those pay services? Or printing a chapbook at home and selling it in local shops?
- matt lubin
Did you read the RWW analysis? One group of authors thought they'd *lose* money going with a traditional publisher over self-publishing. That's telling.
- Tim Beyers
The money has never been in the book-writing, though. It comes from the speaking engagements and other things that (might) come about as a result of it. (And, yes, I know it's not a lot for us average joes.)
- Jen Nipps
How do you lose money with a traditional publishing?
- Georganna Hancock
Well, this one roped me back in. Darn you #editorchat
- Marcia Conner
@auldhouse is building a biz on e-books first, kinda like straight to DVD but different.
- Lydia Dishman
You know we couldn't let you go, Marcia. :) Georganna, maybe if you put more money into promoting your own book than you get from the publisher.
- Jen Nipps
Sorry, I should have phrased differently. Authors thought the traditional royalty format would net them less than self-publishing.
- Tim Beyers
Georganna, you spend more time than you can afford and you get too little advance and support from the publisher.
- Erik Sherman
Yes, not make as much with trad., but who has such a clear crystal ball?
- Georganna Hancock
Seems like if you don't have much of a platform, you might have to (or want to) self-publish to build one and/or prove you have one. Like Tim said, publishers may be more risk-averse and if you can show you were successful w/ self-pub, you are a safer investment for them.
- Wendy Wetzel
Tim, that would depend on name recognition, distribution plans, and marketing.
- matt lubin
I've published w/ various types houses, and have started a press. Also, looked hard at selfpub options and just don't agree it's a good idea unless you have *no* platform to speak of.
- Marcia Conner
I could definitely see the advantage of self-publishing if I was a well-known author. Kind of like a band starting its own label.
- matt lubin
Wendy, what is the definition of "success" in self-pubbing?
- Georganna Hancock
Wendy, that's honestly why I have such an online presence. I hope it helps build platform for when I do get a book out. (Yes, that's actually my main goal.)
- Jen Nipps
Yes, Matt. And in this case the deal was for a second edition after that the first edition was a rousing self-published success. The authors feared they'd be giving up revenue to a publisher cashing in their hard-earned success.
- Tim Beyers
The money you'd invest in self-pub can be used to bolt onto traditional publishers <shrinking> budgets.
- Marcia Conner
Have to go again - deadlines, et. al. Have a good night.
- Erik Sherman
I meant success as in selling enough self-pubbed books to show a publisher that they could sell enough if they published you.
- Wendy Wetzel
Unless you're a known writer or have an incredible story with the right publisher buying into it -- authoring isn't something we do for money. It's to build credibility. Self-published books still don't have the respect of pub houses.
- Meryl K. Evans
You too, Erik. Thanks.
- Tim Beyers
You need a minimum of $10k and a year full-time to promote to achieve any sort of success with a self-pubbed book, and it had better be nonfiction.
- Georganna Hancock
See you next week, Erik.
- Jen Nipps
Totally agree w/ Meryl. Self-publishing demands as much (or more) time than w/ publisher and doesn't have bang for buck some ppl expect.
- Marcia Conner
So you're a known writer. Do you choose a minuscule advance and the name recognition of a major publisher, or self-publish and try for a higher overall payout?
- Tim Beyers
See ya Erik
- Lisa Sink
ie if you sold 5000 books out of the trunk of your car, the pub figures they can sell at least...well, at least that many of your next one since you are obviously self-promoting, etc.
- Wendy Wetzel
I'd go with major pub over self-pub. I've had one client ask me not to interview someone just because her book was self-pubbed.
- Meryl K. Evans
To change the topic slightly, would a traditional publisher be interested in a writer that self-publishes?
- matt lubin
even if you are with a big house, you still (as an author) are required to do a lot of your own "selling" ie: appearances, interviews, signings, etc.
- Lydia Dishman
Matt: a few self-pub to trad pub success stories exist, and they are repeated ad nauseum.
- Georganna Hancock
Absolutely. That was the crux of the RWW analysis. Publishers recruiting successful self-publishers.
- Tim Beyers
Go for the bigger publisher every time, Tim, but [And this is a but from experience w/ butts] talk w/ ppl who have published w/ that house & learn what you need to do to supplement so it's a big success.
- Marcia Conner
What's a "known writer"? I say maybe a publisher can help you get more known. Or more respected. Or the next offer after this one.
- Wendy Wetzel
Publishers are interested in writer who have platforms. Period.
- Marcia Conner
If by self-publishing, you include blogging - it seems to the pub's advantage to print authors who already have an audience.
- Rebecca McCormick
Marketing must be part of your job... even if you haven't started on a book yet. Must build platform years before.
- Meryl K. Evans
In this day and age, there is ample ways to get known that require far less effort and BS than self-publishing.
- Marcia Conner
"Publishers are interested in writer who have platforms. Period." Agreed.
- Tim Beyers
Brief killjoy warning: We'll do reintros and a link in 5 minutes.
- Tim Beyers
With all the negatives and stigma (still) attached to self-pub, more and more wannabees seem to be seriously considering it. They ask, why not?
- Georganna Hancock
My first book, which I got a decent advance for b/c I had a great agent, was slow at first b/c publisher expected me to market & I just had a kiddo. Years later, getting lovely royalties.
- Marcia Conner
"In this day and age, there is ample ways to get known that require far less effort and BS than self-publishing." -- right on, Marcia.
- Meryl K. Evans
When I see people saying that they are going to avoid all the heartbreak and BS of traditional publishing to put out their first novels themselves--I want to cry!
- Georganna Hancock
Agreed, Georganna. I've received I don't know how many rejections, but I'm still keeping at it.
- Jen Nipps
As a publishing vet, I can say that the big guys are in just as much trouble as the newspapers. They are not operating on sustainable biz models. Risk shift to self-pubbed authors is one way to adjust the balance sheet.
- Lydia Dishman
Keep at it, Jen! You'll break through.
- Tim Beyers
On the other hand, I heartily encourage some nonfiction clients to examine self-pubbing.
- Georganna Hancock
Closest I've ever come to self-publishing was a chapbook, which was a print press class project. It was a pain to sew the binding.
- matt lubin
Thanks, Tim. I'm keeping on keeping on. :)
- Jen Nipps
I've had a sideline business of coaching aspiring non-fiction book authors for years and I have yet to see a good book not find a publisher.
- Marcia Conner
LOL, Matt!
- Georganna Hancock
"As a publishing vet, I can say that the big guys are in just as much trouble as the newspapers. They are not operating on sustainable biz models. Risk shift to self-pubbed authors is one way to adjust the balance sheet." Bingo. Therein lies the rub. There's no depending on a broken business.
- Tim Beyers
Here's one author's accounting of her NYT bestseller: http://www.genreality.net/the-rea...
- Rebecca McCormick
Just don't be fooled into believing (as I once did) that getting a publisher is the goal. It's a beginning.
- Marcia Conner
Look above for invite to reintroduce yourselves. It's that time.
- Tim Beyers
Very true, Marcia. :)
- Jen Nipps
Folks, my twitter account has been hacked. Other than send email to support, what should I do?
It's a long, slow process. Mine was hacked thru my blog; brought down my whole website. Site was back, but not yet the blog, before Twitter. A royal pain & Twitter really was no help until I could say the offending site was clean & up again at a new domain.
- Stephen Tiano
I would start with changing your passwords - was any of your content backed up or did it all reside in twitter and on blog?
- Lionel Spearman
Is this going to be an icanhascheezeburger.com kind of morning?
So we are talking pay tonight as in, "What’s fair pay for writers when publishing is struggling as it is?" #editorchat
Frederik Hermann and Richard Kriheli liked this
Reintroducing myself, Lydia Dishman co-host of #editorchat, freelance features writer for business, travel et. al.
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