Mack Lundy

I have got increasingly annoyed with them as a device. My theory is that authors seem to feel they have to provide a "free sample chapter" now to potential readers to entice them. So they provide an artificially gruesome (etc) first chapter that often is pointless, once you get past it to chapter 1. I have actually been put off books on Amazon because of awful prologues, in at least one case I did go on to buy the book and enjoyed it- the rest of it was nothing like the first chapter! - Maxine

Yes, like Maxine, I am not keen, if the sole purpose of the prologue is to describe a killing/assault in gruesome detail, from a perspective that isn't followed up in the body of the novel. Or even worse the italicised prologue following the thoughts of the serial killer. - LauraRoot

The ahem Twilight books have prologues, supposedly to ratchet up the tension as our drippy heroine is in mortal danger yet again, and read as if they are an excerpt from the narrative later on but in fact are not, nor a true reflection of what actually happens. - Karen Meek

I don't mind prologues - they seem to be endemic in Scandinavian fiction. But if it's from the POV of either the serial killer as Laura says, or worse IMHO from the dead person, forget it. - Sarah Ward

do you the Twilight prologues were written with an eye to the future film trailers, Karen :). Must admit to a love/hate relationship with those books. I read them all but the message is pretty dreadful, idealising controlling men and being unable to live without your maaaaaan. - LauraRoot

Just like a modern Mills & Boon then? - Maxine

I'm not overly keen on prologues but I can't imagine skipping one and would struggle not to think badly of people who do. But then I also look askance at people who read abridged audio books. In some things I am a purist. - Bernadette

It is all subjective, of the examples in the post that I have read, the only one I think fits is The Name of the Rose/Eco - and I agree with him about getting to the end (though I did, it felt like duty). But people who actually read Eco look down on TNOTR & would not call it literature. In the UK, John LeCarre is often said to write "literary thrillers". In my view, you can't have a thriller and literature in one book but would be very happy for anyone to prove me wrong! - Maxine

IMHO, that's one problem with labels such as "literary," "thriller" and "literary thriller." First, it's hard to define them, and everyone's definition will vary at least slightly. Second, there are books that defy labels. We do need some sort of set of categories, I think, for a lot of reasons. But I really do think it's possible to go too far with labels. - Margot Kinberg

I was never able to finish The Name of the Rose (did like the film though) or An Instance of the Fingerpost. It was a little amusing to see Benjamin Black's books characterized as "books where not much actually happens." I haven't researched it but I've always figured that John Banville/Benjamin Black is the author spoofed in Bateman's Mystery Man - Brendan Coyle the lit fic author who writes crime fiction under a pseudonym. - Mack Lundy

I read the first Benjamin Black and literature it most definitely is not! But then I thought Red April was clunkily written and ultimately totally daft, and it won the main foreign literature prize for that year. I am sure that when I was young you got "fiction", "children's books" and maybe "science fiction". And that was it (for novels). - Maxine

A "literary thriller" definition: a thriller that isn't as thrilling as a crime thriller? - Norman

Maybe. If Dickens wrote Bleak House (and other books) today, would it be a "literary thriller"? A lot of those victorian etc novels had a murder or other crime-y aspect (eg Tenant of Wildfell Hall, Wuthering Heights, Mill on the Floss) but we would not call them "thrillers". Yet Dracula? Frankenstien? Woman in White? Hamlet? It's impossible! - Maxine

I don't like definitions. I've enjoyed The Name of the Rose and, for different reasons, Red April. But have no interest in other books by Umberto Eco, Carlos Ruiz Zafon or Arturo Perez Reverte. I'm not very much interested on John Banville/Benjamin Black either, but heve enjoyed other writers as Mario Vargas Llosa even if I dont agree with his political views. - Jose Ignacio

My husband read Focault's Pendulum once as he's a scientist and is interested in F's P. He did actually finish it but, a mild man of few words -- upon completion it got thrown across the room more than once - seems to have been a highly irritating experience, reading it! (Jose Ignacio - NOTR - liked first part but it was miles too long & repetitive. Red April - hope I was not rude - but goes to show it is a matter of taste & there is no "objective" criterion.) - Maxine

No problem Maxine. I knew already you views about NOTR and Red April. - Jose Ignacio

I am struggling to think of a literary creation who surpasses George Smiley; I can't think of a character who makes me think more deeply about what it is to be British, and I don't know of many writers better than Kerstin Ekman. (Then again, I thought Red April was splendid and I have enjoyed Zafon). - mediations

But I don't think one could call Ekman a "thriller" writer? A thought - when he was first published, Ian McEwan was regarded as a bit of a crime/thriller writer - he has written murder mysteries, spy thriller etc. Yet at some point, he made a perceived "crossover" into literary. How/why? (I don't know the answer!). He is surely one of the greatest novelists alive (my opinion only). - Maxine

I wouldn´t call all Christie´s books cosy, but I think it is a fairly convenient term for a certain subgenre. What else would you call it? I also have a problem with crime fiction in between cosies and hardboiled. Midstream mysteries???? :O - Dorte Jakobsen

Aline Templeton is like that, I think, Dorte, not cosy but somehow comforting; not quite realistic but somehow persuasive. - Maxine

A student Sherlockian and friend commented "That was a fun read, but the poor guy didn't accomplish much more than saying that Holmes was a product of the Victorian era's overall moral climate. It read like a really good freshman seminar final paper, but not much more." - Mack Lundy

LOL, Mack! Well, still, it's an interesting point. - Margot Kinberg

I'm impressed that the writer of the article found so many biblical references in the Holmes stories as they completely passed me by, But I think your friend is right. Late Victorian literature is awash with such references. Holmes and Watson as characters have always seen to me to be the personification of Conan Doyle's rationalism although he did have a Catholic upbringing. I think (but am not sure) that the Holmes stories were completed by the time he embraced spiritualism. - Sarah Ward

Very interesting - thanks, Mack. - Margot Kinberg

The answer isn't very satisfying, I'm afraid. I wouldn't be surprised to see more authors going the self-published route. - Mack Lundy

I've been thinking that, too. Still not ready to do that myself... - Margot Kinberg

Yes I thought the post a bit unsatisfactory too, kind of missing the point that the model so well described is simply out of date for 2011 when the reading community is so globally connected - Bernadette

Yes, publishers are stuck in an old rut on this one. I do see their dilemma as a major source of their revenue is in selling rights to geographically defined markets, and it is hard to make money out of being a book publisher. But I wish they would find an innovative solution that was more in readers' interests - readers who are involved in global online book discussions and sites like Goodreads, in particular. - Maxine

Extremely frustrating to be told "for business reasons we are unable to take your money; maybe in a few years we'll take it, but not now" though we all share what we're reading without regard to borders. How much business does one lose before figuring this out? - barbara fister from iPhone

The author of the post seems obsessed with lost sales due to piracy which makes the arguments even sillier because they're pushing people towards piracy. I was at a suburban pub one night last week and what was doing the rounds off the back of the proverbial truck? pirated DVDs of the new Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy that is out in the UK. Why? Because it's not being released here until 25... more... - Bernadette

Australians aren't specifically anti-cop, we are collectively under-whelmed by authority figures of any sort and we don't have the automatic respect for people who hold certain positions in society just because they hold those positions. I think the article is a bit simplistic in linking it back to convict origins though in a way it's related...we simply don't have a long tradition of having built up a class structures with lots of layers and every layer demanding a bit more deference than the one below it - Bernadette

Oh and the expert quoted is...well...not much of one IMHO. he is a professor of someting else and has an amateur interest in crime fiction but seems to think his academic knowledge in one area means he's an expert at everything. I've got a copy of his non-fiction book on Aussie crime fiction here somewhere, it makes some bizarre claims and tends to focus on the blokes (and the lesbians) (as you do) - Bernadette

Thanks Bernadette. This is one of the reasons I love this group, knowledgable and insightful response to articles like this. The average reader of this article would be forced to take the comments at face value. - Mack Lundy

And here I was thinking I was just being cranky Mack, I like the term knowledgable much better :) - Bernadette

And exchanges like this one is one of the reasons I love this group :O - Dorte Jakobsen

Me, too :-) - Margot Kinberg