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Marc Dong › Likes
Sardar Mohkim Khan to Sardar's feed, ProBlogger Room, StartupMeme, Social Media, Social Media Club, The Facebook Experience
Facebook Users: Go Public! Go Public! Because That’s What Zuckerberg Has Done - http://startupmeme.com/faceboo...
friendfeed的hosts ip，测试可用。64.13.142.68 friendfeed.com
Kevin Cao, sG, lion and 12 other people liked this
Brian Solis at Bub.blicio.us: Introducing the FriendFeed Team - http://bub.blicio.us/1111126...
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Tudor Bosman, Lysender, ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0, and 148 other people liked this
Brian, as always, takes great pictures, even with questionable subjects. The pictures are from tonight's open house.
- Louis Gray
from Bookmarklet
Great pic Louis and tell them I love them all, best product on the web right now
- Thomas Power
Great photo!
- Bret Taylor
Left to right, as if you didn't know already: Dan Hsiao, Casey Muller, Ana Yang, Jim Norris, Tudor Bosman, Bret Taylor, Paul Buchheit (with Camilla), Sanjeev Singh, Kevin Fox.
- Tudor Bosman
yes; awesome photo!
- Tudor Bosman
(Not pictured: Ben Golub, Gary Burd and Ross Miller)
- Louis Gray
Some of our Turkish friends are also there http://ff.im/3mt6T.. Thanks for the pictures
- Murat Buyurgan
Great Photo :)
- Nimaa
You didn't tell me there was a FriendFeed party this week or I would have come out :-)
- Jesse Stay
Tudor SMASH!
- dario
Jesse: I haven't been able to make a friendfeed party for a while. We need a calendar! Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
اینا هم حلقه دارن. رونوشت به مازیار و مهران اینا
- Aly
Rock on, Kevin!
- Josh Haley
Great PPs!!加油，Friendfeed！:)))
- K.D.
That's why I love today's web : you can talk with the people that build the next web, and see those who build your current web. Congrats guys!
- Zackatoustra
FriendFeed Team, I love you !!!! Thanks to you all, I'm very happy everyday!!!
- Renchin(Reina)
So that was the TGIFF ("Thank Goodness It's FriendFeed") party? Perhaps slightly off-topic, but if Camiila hasn't been betrothed yet, have I got a grandson for her ;-))
- ianf ⌘
TGIFF was excellent. Great event and great people.Thanks for the invite and hospitality.
- AJ Kohn
Louis, thank you and thank you to the FriendFeed team for making a killer product and hosting a great open house!
- Brian Solis
I think I spotted Hutch (http://friendfeed.com/bhc3) in an uncaptioned photo wearing a white "San Francisco Classic" shirt: http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Yes, Daniel. That is Hutch.
- Louis Gray
Fun party, great food, great hospitality.
- Anne Bouey
Anne - great finally meeting you yesterday.
- Hutch Carpenter
great photo, good to see the whole team together!
- Jeroen De Miranda
oooh i am totally wishing i was there! Robert is right, we need a calendar! :)
- Susan Beebe
Hutch: Thanks. I enjoyed chatting with you, too.
- Anne Bouey
what's with the guitar? lol
- Stuart Evans
(bump) Ana and Casey are now married. Here's a pic of them on the left, between Ross and Jim. Congratulations to Ana and Casey! (per http://friendfeed.com/jessica...)
- Louis Gray
علی حجوانی تو روحت، ای واسه چه موقعیه؟ :)))
- Mehran
:))))))))) مال بعد از عیده. اواخر فروردین فک کنم
- Aly
:)))
- Mehran
I am beginning to finally get it... If you post on Friendfeed you get comments... If you post on Twitter, you get followers. If you are marketing something (e.g. your blog/brand, your product/service) getting followers is much better than getting comments.
Maggie, Marc Dong, Keith Pelczarski and 75 other people liked this
And if you are not wanting to get marketed to?
- Cristo
You need to than unfollow those users...:)) Twitter is a lot more about broadcasting and getting followers is like a drug.. the more you broadcast the more followers you get :)
- Bindu Reddy
Are you getting high right now? :)
- Cristo
Getting followers doesn't really mean anything: 390 of the 400 followers I have on Twitter never act or do anything with what I say on it. Getting them to convert is the meaningful part of the marketing proposition, and conversations, I've found, are far more effective at that.
- Mark Trapp
Mark is right.
- Robert Scoble
So, what's the FAQ for interaction on Twitter? I had a post that got 100+ comments the other day here on Friendfeed but no response on Twitter. I must be doing something wrong over there.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
twitter seems to be great for people who are lazy and not really savvy about marketing. it's sort of like shouting into the void, and you might get a few people to respond, but do you really get people to act?
- Bren -- Still Believes
@Mark, I agree with you.. However to a lot of people having a follower number like 10K/20K, which seems like a relatively easily thing to do on Twitter, is not only just a high but it is also a good way to keep in touch with your audience without spending too much time... Here keeping in touch with your audience is way more time consuming
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu, but keeping in touch doesn't mean anything if they're not listening. You can have a million followers, but if you're not getting any of them to act on what you're saying, it doesn't mean much. Getting conversations going with people, who may or may not be followers, which Twitter is pretty bad at, are more effective at getting people to convert. I just had a relatively popular...
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- Mark Trapp
Bindu, I'm following you (FF) and I just commented too :)
- Micah Wittman
@Mark, Curious how did you get them to go to your website?
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu, if I knew that I'd have it made. Near as I can tell, people were doing Twitter and Google searches for "twitter list," and then started retweeting it and sharing it from there.
- Mark Trapp
Following is such a low-risk endeavor that people don't put thought into it: they'll follow anyone and everyone. You even have people thinking it's common decency to automatically follow people if they follow you without even thinking about if their content is interesting. Following is the 21st century equivalent of receiving a phone book or the yellow pages: you do it just in case you need to contact or get ahold of someone in the future, but nobody ever realistically does.
- Mark Trapp
Yep, it's like collecting business cards that get neatly filed into a big binder. It's about the self-satisfaction of the collection - you feel more connected / networked / important and avoid doing the hard work of cold calling or meeting with people and building something or whatever.
- Micah Wittman
I agree with following being a low-risk effort... However I have also heard of ppl gaining value from Twitter without much effort. Take for example this coffeshop I am a big fan of - sightglass coffee. They get a lot of customers from Twitter. It takes them relatively little time to tweet and they get customers. It would be very hard to achieve the same on FF.
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu, I get lots of conversation on Twitter, too. One of the reasons I am there more than here is because people with common interest in my political obsessions are there, but not here.
- Karoli
Karoli - Yes, the Twitterverse is way more diverse than the FFverse. Curious do you get more comments/conversations per post on Twitter as compared to FF or is it that you you post more stuff because time spent per post is lower on Twitter
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu, I get very little response to political conversations/comments on FF - a couple of folks follow here but a very small percentage compared to twitter. I tried to pull people over here, but they didn't understand why they should leave tweetdeck and their twitter setup for new territory.
- Karoli
Geeks (+ early adopters, influential folks, the elite ...) are on FriendFeed and the proletariat on Twitter? Long live the dictatorship of the proletariat? Calls for action work best when the audience actually cares, so prolly that's all about choosing the right medium for the targeted punters?
- Sebastian
Sebastian... yes agree the geeks and tech bloggers are on FF... However if you are marketing say a fashion or beauty blog. You won't get much interest here. twitter is the place for you :)
- Bindu Reddy
I disagree with that statement, Bindu. There's a LOT of non-tech getting traction on FriendFeed. So much so that it's the number one reason Scoble no longer enjoys being here: he says he doesn't see enough tech for his liking.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Just butting in here to mention that there are tons of uses for both twitter and friendfeed that have nothing whatsoever to do with marketing. In fact, once could make the argument that social networks such as these were designed to get away from marketing. Unlike radio, TV, or even a web search, you choose who you'll be receiving information from. If you're looking to exchange...
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- Mr. Gunn
Marketing, schmarketing.
- Christopher A Carr
Bindu, what I'm sick of is marketers broadcasting their sales pitches to all social media outlets out there, regardless whether the audience might fit or not. Anyways, i'ts possible to attract a few somewhat intelligent responses to geeky topics at Twitter, at least when xmas and independence day share the same date. Most probably I wouldn't try to sell wonder bras at FF, though.
- Sebastian
@Tina ... umm I have not been an avid user of FF lately so maybe it has become pretty diverse. Are you saying there are a lot of people on here with specific interests such as politics, beauty etc?
- Bindu Reddy
Sebastian - LOL.. agree :)
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu: Ning is a better place to go if you have very specific topics you want to talk about. They are growing a FriendFeed every 12 days (they are getting a million new users that often and have just passed 38 million registered). FriendFeed is fun if you aren't sure what you want to chat about and you're cool with seeing lots of family pictures and goofy stuff. Tina is right that the hard-core geeks are mostly on Twitter or Facebook now, I keep watching here, though.
- Robert Scoble
Karoli I get all kinds of action here on political topics. I have more followers on Twitter but rarely get a response there. Here I got 80+ comments yesterday.
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
from iPod
MVB, Karoli is a prolific voice on twitter. Twitter seems quite effective for political advocacy/activism even though longer form convos have to break out somewhere else. Also, just like friendfeed, volume / steady presence can make all the difference. Your tweet count is ~2K; Karoli's over 63K.
- Micah Wittman
My presence here is similar to Kaoli's on Twitter, then. So, presence is a mitigating factor. But, Micah, as you so deftly point out, for a long conversation there needs to be a move to another venue. That's where here works better, since it can stay right here.
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
from iPod
We agree, and can agreed at length right here, folks :)
- Micah Wittman
So link your twitter to your friendfeed. Get followers and comments. The best of both worlds.
- Hareesh Nagarajan
Does it make any difference here whether the original post was to Twitter and reposted here automatically or the original post was directly here? In other words, does the FF community prefer to comment on direct posts rather than Twitter reposts?
- Jimmy Walker
Jimmy: it honestly depends on who you interact with on FriendFeed. There are people who get irate about people only posting to Twitter and openly advocate using FriendFeed directly, and yet, there are interesting people who always get a conversation going around their tweets. One thing that sometimes helps is coming back to FriendFeed and elaborating on your tweet, or to do more than...
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- Mark Trapp
Mark, that sounds like good advice. Thanks.
- Jimmy Walker
B.Reddy is right.I complately agree with her.A good view,and a good advice for us.Thank you Bindu...
- Dedegi
Following only happens after several good comments. Consistency is the key.
- Jeremy (quasimodo)
Jeremy, I am not sure... Someone body or the other seems to come and follow you based on pretty much anything you twitter. Of course most of these ppl prob. do that expecting a follow back?
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu: I meant on FF. Twitter...they're pretty loose.
- Jeremy (quasimodo)
I don't get followers from posting on Twitter; the only people who see what I post there are my followers.
- Mistletoe Glen
I post both places and get almost nothing... so where's your hypothesis now, huh!? ;-))
- Jim Is Not Smart
Post more pics of Johnny in a dress.
- Jeremy (quasimodo)
If I was marketing something, I would do both...
- Johnny Worthington
Bindu: As you had said earlier, most of the followers at twitter don't read what you are tweeting. So it is actually better to get comments as you know those who comment read whatever you post.
- Amit
Amit, I completely agree with you about the comments and how no one reads your tweets. As an example I posted a tweet about "anchors" On FF there are 7 likes and 14 comments.. None on twitter. However at the end of the day for every 20 new followers I get 1-2 new friends. On FF much less of that happens. So from a marketing point of view Twitter is better.
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu, how many people are subbed to you on FF and on Twitter? What are the total number of subs to each? What is the ratio of your subs to the total subs of each? I bet a crisp dollar bill that you are subbed to a higher percentage of subs on FF than on Twitter.
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
from fftogo
MVB interesting point of subs. # of subs on Twitter and FF are about the same but the quality of subs is much better on FF. As far as ration goes... yes FF is much better than Twitter and that does have an impact. However I am going to contend that even for people who have many more subs on Twitter (e.g. scoble?) there is much more engagement on FF than twitter. he probably adds more followers though on twitter
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu, exactly. Unlike you, I, and most others, are not here to market a product or service so we see a different function of Social Media.
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
from iPod
Social Media 101: It's a two-way street - relationships are formed via interactions, not uni-directional broadcast. :)
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
This, btw, is true for all forms of marketing / business function - consider a customer support hotline that never get answered by anyone but just sits there as a 1-800 number.
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
I'd like to think getting sales is even better than followers, come to think of it, getting leads are better than followers too. Followers are overrated.
- Justin Hitt
@Justin... completely agree..
- Bindu Reddy
GReader: Pls add some padding. kthxbai!
Sachin Shekhar, Marc Dong, Alfredo and 6 other people liked this
Extra padding is coming (though not quite as much as this).
- Mihai Parparita
:-)
- Kevin Fox
It must sometimes be torture to know design. I'm lucky to be oblivious.
- Bruce Lewis
we had it done before you even posted, yo.
- Jenna Bilotta
and by we, i, of course, mean mihai. Sigh. coding really is useful sometimes..
- Jenna Bilotta
Your Looks and Your Inbox « OkTrends - http://blog.okcupid.com/index...
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HealingBrush, Tim Tyler, Kelly and 39 other people liked this
"This week we will be confronting a fact that, by definition, haunts the average online dater: no matter how much time you spend polishing your profile, honing your IM banter, and perfecting your message introductions, it’s your picture that matters most."
- Jim Norris
from Bookmarklet
Interestingly enough, I could pick out the cute girls, but could find no discernible trend for attractiveness of the guys.
- Clare Dibble
But note, even the ugliest guy writing the most attractive woman has a 10+% response rate! (Presumably many of the responses are polite "no thanks". Also surely there's some background level of social non-flirtatious messaging.)
- ⓞnor
Do they have a "net worth" statistic for guys? I wonder what response rate that would generate. :-)
- Piaw Na
With socnets exploding who still uses online dating sites? Twitter and Facebook FTW.
- Mona Nomura
Mona: How could you possibly use Twitter to meet people?
- Gabe
Very interesting
- Jacopod
And how would men get women to pay attention to them on Facebook instead of the dorky things that are on their Profile. :-)
- Piaw Na
no wonder i get no messages
- Chris Heath
Attractive people get more mail than ugly people on online dating sites? No shit? Really? Who'da thunk that!?!
- Ciaoenrico
Gabe. Mona. Mona. Gabe.
- Ted Gilchrist
Twitter: Tweetups, conferences, CCing people on Tweets. Facebook: tagging, commenting, etc., etc. I've actually introduced a few friends via photo tagging to name a few :) Ted. LOL.
- Mona Nomura
re "it's your pic that matters most!" Exactly, and that's why you should use a pic of someone else. (Er, I mean, unless you yourself are fantastic looking)
- j1m
Mona, not everyone has your luck getting asked out just from hanging out on Twitter & FB...
- Spidra Webster
There's no such thing as luck - I make my own luck. ;)
- Mona Nomura
Okay, maybe "luck" was the wrong word.
- Spidra Webster
Luck of the genetic lottery?
- Jim Norris
It has nothing to do with photos - most of my avatars are ridiculous. The one I'm using right now on FF looks like a melted mini-fig and my Facebook photo was my 4th grade yearbook picture for a long time. Photoshopped Barbizon photos of yourselves 1. makes you look like you're trying too hard and 2. why would you want to attract someone who adds (friends?) you for the way you look anyway?
- Mona Nomura
The one thing I wish the OKcupid blogger had addressed was about the ranking of guy's photos - are most guys hideous? Is male attractiveness severely not normally distributed?
- Andrew C
Note the pictures of (what to me look like) perfectly decent-looking guys who were rated low. It would be interesting to see how female perception of male attractiveness is itself distributed for a particular photo, and also how much of it is photo presentation and how much is "native" attractiveness (which you'd measure by, I dunno, calling people in for a professional makeover and photo shoot?).
- ⓞnor
That wouldn't really be "native", would it?
- Andrew C
How many comments would this post have gotten if the picture posted was of one of the "medium" attractive girls? Hmmm
- Christopher Chung
But yes, standardized presentation would help. Actually, I thought psychologists did use that to measure attractiveness. (total sidebar:averaging out photos of average-looking people produces a composite that is probably a good bit more attractive than any individual component since the averaging process itself smooths out "flaws".)
- Andrew C
I probably would have ranked the "medium" girls within a point of the "highly attractive" ones... BTW, I didn't even notice this till now, but there are l'il JS links to display attractive and average guys instead of girls.
- Andrew C
Tangentially related: _Connected_ http://ff.im/bLzrQ refers to "Social transmission of face preferences among humans" http://www.cogs.indiana.edu/spackle...
- Ruchira S. Datta
向FriendFeed活跃用户免费配送SSH帐号的方式现已激活，详情如下：
Stacy Wu, Harvey, huaidan and 74 other people liked this
何为活跃用户：每天频繁访问并使用FriendFeed的用户。判定方式：人工审核。
- sshgfw
注意：只使用自动导入Feed功能且极少“发布”、“喜欢”、“评论”的用户，不能算作活跃用户哦~
- sshgfw
如果您自认为是FriendFeed的活跃用户，请将您的帐户网址（比如：https://friendfeed.com/fuckgfw ）发至我们的邮箱，通过审核后，您将会收到一封附有一个SSH帐号的邮件。
- sshgfw
如果通过Blog审核的同学同时也是FriendFeed的活跃用户，可以再次提交申请，您将额外获得一个帐号。
- sshgfw
另：我们希望您能使用Gmail向我们发送审核请求，因为我们无法信任任何来自国内邮箱的信件往来。
- sshgfw
SSH帐号是用来做什么的：http://digg.com/d1nsDv
- sshgfw
呃。。这个。。
- wd_afei
你好。。我想要一个账号。。不知可不可以。。真心请求！谢谢各位老大！
- showker
我昨天发了邮件，今天还没有回应
- 老巫师
@老巫师 您是29号晚上6点发来的申请邮件，方式是博客转载，但并没有通过审核（未通过审核的原因已经在当晚10点13分发出），同时我们发现了您的FriendFeed帐号，因此按照针对其活跃用户的方式通过审核，并于当晚10点23分将一个SSH帐号和服务器信息发送到您的邮箱，总时差为4个小时。另：确实有人很早发来邮件，而我们却很久没有处理的情况，他们的耐心让我们感到非常温暖。
- sshgfw
不好意思，我再检查一下邮箱，麻烦了。
- 老巫师
账号已收到，非常感谢！
- Kunshou（困兽）
账号已收到，谢谢！！
- 老巫师
帐户已收到，感谢!
- Yinhaiming
申请了～～
- ggq
帐户已经收到，谢谢～～
- ggq
我也想试试
- coze
申请^_^
- limsabeom
谢谢，尝试一下。哈哈。
- ybs
谢谢，我已经收到。在linux上配置，照理只需要一个-L即可，但刚才失败了。
- xiawinter
已收到，谢谢了。
- ybs
还没收到~等ing
- Java宅男
嗯，这个推广方式不错，毕竟不是每人都有写BLOG,，收益群体扩大了很多
- 转弯
如果现在开始做个活跃的friendfeeder，是不是也可以申请一个？
- dokie
@dokie 其实我们想把SSH帐号发到每一位平时需要访问FriendFeed的同学手中，但总得通过某个标准来判断申请人的真伪，所以才定了个所谓的“活跃用户”这个标准。如果你真的觉得自己很喜欢FriendFeed这个网站，隔几天就会来这看一看“今日最佳”，时不时地还会参与讨论的话，你就可以给我们发信了。
- sshgfw
之所以最先发放给FriendFeed的活跃用户，是因为：i.friendfeed.com上的图片偶尔会无法显示，而Amazon的CloudFront似乎也不支持https加密访问；假如哪天FF被全面滴Ban掉，咱还能继续使用，我实在是喜欢FriendFeed的灵活多变，可以充分发挥使用者的想象力，比如还有Dropbox。
- sshgfw
我加入GFW组也比较早了,希望能发我一个SSH帐号
- Kissu
@fuckGFW 其实注册friendfeed算是很早的了，但没怎么上，这些天发现：原来FF还蛮好玩的。psiphon2前两天又刚刚挂掉，所以对SSH真的很期待，o(╯□╰)o……这个房间的交流气氛蛮好的，在万恶的GFW面前，越发觉得自由的重要，不过用“fuck”的这种情绪，不喜欢~·~呵呵~~~XD
- dokie
非常非常讨厌GFW！自由万岁！
- sexwin
为什么fuckGFW http://justbeok.tumblr.com/post... （需翻墙访问）
- sshgfw
怎么确定我的friendfeed账号和我发给你的Gmail帐号是同一个人的？呃..随便问下。
- Marc Dong
申请...thanks..
- Marc Dong
试一下
- Paul
@Marc 看ID和其Gmail的first/last name是否匹配。应该不会有人因为要一个SSH帐号而把自己的诚信丢掉吧，至少目前还没发现骗子~ 另：最好别在这里留下任何自己的联系方式，请您自己将其删掉。
- sshgfw
@Marc 有的申请人在发信后都会like或comment本条目，譬如您 :)
- sshgfw
好吧，我也来申请一下。期待啊~~
- cch
me too, apply the SSH ~
- 小刀周远
发一个，不知道能不能得到？
- BlackDream
刚注册，努力成为活跃用户，:)
- standin
账号已收到，非常感谢！
- yangwillychen
已经使用几天，特来感谢！长期的斗争，离不开所有人的维护！
- Aaron
friendfeed确实是一个好东西，最近刚用上，等用上几天后，能给我一个账号不？
- rushui999
@rushui999 当你自认为自己符合上面定义的“活跃用户”的话，就可以给我发Email请求审核啦~
- sshgfw
关注中。希望早日得到。。
- 是地中云
我去瞧瞧, 看算不算活跃用户
- Roamlog
我要成为活跃用户
- lion
谁给我一个账号啊wohuzhai666@gmail.com
- 小老鼠
活跃用户，是不是必须每天都必须登陆啊？
- 中国画家
希望您提供更加人性化、自动审核化的发放方式，这样您将有更多的时间给我们研发好的软件
- 中国画家
邮件被退回了...我是新用户，希望能得到一个帐号
- orange
账号收到，非常感谢。
- corner
我的订阅源未公开,能看到是否活跃吗?
- Felix
帐号收到，非常感谢！！
- standin
现在还有ssh帐号吗？
- lion
最近才了解到friendfeed，会努力成为活跃用户的 ^_^
- nomad meteor
今天才知道 这个好软件 努力得账号。。。
- 51357l
哇，刚试了一下，速度中等，最大的特点是连接稳定，支持各种网站cookie登录，socks5代理可是万能的，用了仿佛置身墙外，以后再也不用为翻墙操心了，非常感谢。
- rushui999
现在还能申请吗?博客已经被墙.jetmcx@gmail.com,thx;
- jetmc
我也想要ssh啊，不知道怎么申请呢？？？？？
- 占奇
新用户 想要ssh 从现在开始努力做活跃用户 呵呵
- icefromthemars
给我一个吧
- Kevin Zhong
希望申请一个，谢谢！
- Kevin Xiong
赏我一个吧！
- boynew
求一个
- luolong
已经通过博客转载，用163邮箱发的，行啵？
- simonlion
新浪博客的博文已被删除，我在windows live重新转载，另外申请不到Gmail邮箱，所以用hotmail发过来了，不知道行不行？
- simonlion
SSH帐号是用来做什么的?
- rpcss
能不能给我一个?????????????????
- rpcss
呵呵，就等SSH了。
- 纯净水
SSH是個什么東西？ 我在國外不需要， 只是好奇
- Paul JiaoShouwu
我也来申请一个
- caixin
SSH收到，测试成功，速度的确非常快。
- 纯净水
不知我这样的申请有没有希望获得
- 原頁
我想申请一个 ，谢谢
- lxh
邮件已经发了，不知道什么时候可以收到，期待啊
- 阿邪
收到账号，测试了一下速度和不错，继续#FUCKGFW 去
- Roger.Wei
我也在刚才收到帐户密码了
- 阿邪
谢谢，申请一个，先谢咯
- coze
申请一个，谢谢
- lostindream
刚才查邮箱发现账户密码发给我了！感谢～！
- 原頁
求SSH账户一个，以防Google.com再次“罢工”。感激不尽！
- norx
曾以为用用在线代理也能勉强度日，没想到无耻的GFW连gmail也不放过，申请了一个ssh，用着不错，感谢！
- eyejava
rpcss(xsysr***@foxmail.com)于2009-6-26 发出来一封email，请赶紧回复，客户等不及了。。
- rpcss
我不是活跃用户，只是用ff集成了twitter/blog/饭否等等，希望大家都能学会翻墙。
- Shire
不想失去Google，请大侠赏一个SSH账号。
- kokozou
支持！感谢！FUCK GFW！请给个账号。
- 铁屋蝼蚁
我也想申请一个SSH帐号，谢谢！
- Kevin
我也想申请一个SSH帐号，谢谢！
- Supern Lee
申请一个 谢谢～
- tony5609
不属于FriendFeed重度用户，虽然有个独立blog但半年更新一次...纯属前来支持一下，一起FuckGFW！
- venjet
其实我的账号是越过长城来到那个http://www.chinagfw.org/求申请才拿到了...
- 橘子不救你
支持一下，Fuck GFW！
- Fight4Future
请问何时才能收到SSH账号和密码，我已经在BLOG上发布了
- younx
翻墙快乐。
- kroraina
最近才用上firefox，才发现他功能的强大，以后会常来，希望能申请到一个SSH账号。谢谢
- bovise
谢谢，已收到！开始体验
- guankeng
这个楼可以算个纪录了吧
- FlyMeToTheMoon
汗一个，发现自己稀里糊涂加的是fuckGFW Feedback。。之前经常用无界翻墙，最近无界好像老是连接不上，不知道是怎么回事，推友告诉我autoproxy+ssh无敌了，所以我总算找到组织了。。
- keith
文章也转了，邮件也发了！但……
- 舞夜
什么时候到我有ssh啊，我也发表了在我的blog上了，邮件也发了
- eltonlao
我想申请SSH账户 ，Google的忠实用户，失去了Google，真的不知道该怎么办，谢谢 ！
- janerow
已收到，谢谢,比tor快很多
- ThenWang
没有收到诶，有份没？feedshare的文我是每次必顶啊
- FlyMeToTheMoon
from email
今天早上起来翻墙失败了...账号始终链接不上。不知为何？
- eric
我还能登陆,但是隔几分钟就掉线一次,重连2,3次才能再次连上..
- Newton
我也断掉了，换了另外一个，上去了
- xiawinter
今早Dreamhost服务商来信，绝大部分SSH帐号已被禁止 - http://www.sshgfw.com/post...
- sshgfw
正在和他们的技术人员商讨，目前他们的态度很强硬：服务条款不得违反。
- sshgfw
保持关注，没了SSH-D，上网真不知道做什么了
- 阿邪
我试了一下Wu jie+Firefox+autoproxy，速度竟然非常快。
- yezi
自由门还是比较稳定 的，嘿嘿
- eudemon
原来走门上YOUTUBE比直连速度还好，最近不行了，是不是资金除了问题
- FlyMeToTheMoon
from email
而且版本也更新的蛮快，我的自由门是FLG的人发给我的垃圾邮件，下下来一试果然好用。
- eudemon
刚刚加入，还不知道有什么用
- 22999172
听说可以申请到ssl账户，不知道要怎么做才可以啊，现在我是翻墙进来的啊
- 22999172
我也想要 ssh帐号
- Harvey
所以，可以尽快发帐号到我邮箱吗？谢谢
- Harvey
什么早就被禁了？
- Harvey
还没有收到ssh 帐号。
- Harvey
我不算是每天频繁访问FF的用户，但注册的很早，ff被墙之后就很少翻墙上来了（刚看了下，经常有同步过来的微博)。但在博客上有转载过其他翻墙的工具，如：http://anchorfree.com/， 其他VPN等，可惜很多方法已失效。现在经常用的是tor，每天都需要发邮件去get bridges。所以想尝试下SSH的方式。希望可以收到，感谢！如可捐助，请告知paybal账户。
- Gavin Zhao
这算是个好消息，属实？
- 不是十方和尚
太需要个账号了，tor很慢，现在偶这上网又搞了个websense来过滤和监听了，据说连tor也可以被封协议（偶倒不懂啊），我这上网连NBA都被禁了，只能看新闻，天气预报了，，哎。。。转载了博文，已发了邮件，等的就是希望！！！！putty也下了，英文中文版齐了，myentunnel也下了，pietty我也下了，万事俱备只欠东风a
- tonychow
An early birthday present: The Gmail Javascript compiler was just open-sourced! http://code.google.com/closure... (it compiles JS into smaller, faster JS)
Mona Nomura, Uğur Aslan, seyithanyener and 115 other people liked this
We first started work on it almost 8 years ago. It has come a long way since then :)
- Paul Buchheit
Happy Birthday Paul!
- AJ Batac
Today is actually just my internet birthday.
- Paul Buchheit
Well, thanks :) But for a verbose API I'll stick with YUI :P Have to inspect the power of templating and compiler, though.
- Claudio Cicali ♋
I wonder what happens when you apply it recursively -- can you get down to 1 byte of code that takes no time to execute? ;=)
- Brian Sullivan
Finally! This is great.
- Tudor Bosman
Happy Birthday!
- Robert Scoble
Nice!
- Micah Wittman
Unfortunately it looks like the internationalization features may be missing. I wonder why those were removed? (or if I'm just not seeing it)
- Paul Buchheit
Paul you are my best-friend :`(
- Onur Gündüz
if you were starting a new site today, would you use this over jquery (which friendfeed uses)?
- Karl Rosaen
Karl, jquery is a library, this is a compiler. I would use them both.
- Paul Buchheit
well, i mean closure library :) but yeah, they could be used together
- Karl Rosaen
ah, i see this is a link closure compiler, not the broader closure tools.
- Karl Rosaen
Refactoring, JS style.
- Gabe
Now, this is a good news
- Ozkan Altuner
@Paul the Closure project has three components: compiler, library, and template language. Looks like the Closure/library might be competing with jQuery.
- Shakeel Mahate
this is sweet!
- Jay
I think jQuery does a lot of stuff that might confuse the compiler, e.g. iterating over an array of string function names and creating new function wrappers (look at the way the parent/child/next/prev/etc functions get installed) The Closure library is also full of type annotations that help the compiler make better optimization choices, so you're likely to get a better compiled outcome using Closure than jQuery + fixes + compiler
- Ray Cromwell
@paul -- I know you've been wanting this opensourced for a long time. sorry it took such a long time. Nick Santos and the jscompiler team has finally done it! Cheers!
- Jing Lim
Happy Birthday
- ashish
Many happy returns!!
- Fumus, Draco Magus
Happy Birthday, Paul!
- Andrew Terry
Happy Birthday Paul
- Sandeep Kalidindi
Happy B'day Paul! don't be evil :)
- sirishkumar
Congratulations to the team (and @Paul & Jing) -- I know everyone's been waiting a long time for this. For anyone considering whether to use jQuery vs Closure, consider that they're meant for largely different purposes. jQuery's good for enhancing static web pages; Closure's much better at building large apps. And as Ray points out above, Closure the library is going to get much better results from Closure the compiler than an arbitrary js library would, because of all the type annotations.
- Joel Webber
Paul Buchheit has been at the top of my best of pages all month. Rock on, Paul.
- Donald C. Lindsay
Hey HAPPY BIRTHDAY PAUL !!! Cool present!! <insert CAKE> :D
- Susan Beebe
Paul, any comment on this write up? http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs...
- Sachin
That writeup is trolling for traffic IMHO. Nit picking 50 lines out of 200+ thousand (written for readability, which get compiled and optimized), providing no benchmarks for claims, and spending half the time bashing Java, it just seems to be struggling to find something wrong with Closure.
- Ray Cromwell
Sachin: he seems to be commenting on Closure the JS library, not Closure the JS compiler (that Paul's post was about). And he may be a douchebag, but I haven't seen anything I disagree with.
- Gabe
@Sachin: I hate to be too harsh, but that post is pretty much garbage. From what I can tell he's pretty much managed to enumerate some of the worst things about Javascript -- nitpicking the code for referencing "undefined" directly without declaring it as an uninitialized local? That's insane. Following this advice is mostly a recipe for an unreadable mess. Also, look in the comments for several refutations of the idea that some of these are even optimizations.
- Joel Webber
Joel, you're just not man enough to handle a language where 'top' is an implicitly reserved keyword, and 'undefined' which should be, isn't. But it could be worse, 'null' could be something you could override. :)
- Ray Cromwell
reposted via: followmeme origin: followmeme 23 reposts - http://meme.yahoo.com/ivanfil...
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Dputamadre, جـیحونــــــــــــ, Gordon Herd and 19 other people liked this
:)
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
:-o
- tiracconto
Bir zamanlar Mustafa Kemal'in yonettigi ulkeyi simdi tayyip satiyor bu resimden bu aklima geldi
- Mert K.
bu kuş doldurulmuşlardan olmasın :)
- Ferda Tosçalı Aybar
Mockingbird - http://gomockingbird.com/
Aaron D'Souza, Daniel Schildt, ǝuǝƃnǝ and 31 other people liked this
That looks fantastic.
- Kevin Fox
Omg I love it! Lately I've been doing more wireframes than actual mockups, and I wanted them to be team-editable as well, so I was using Google Doc's drawing tool. This is way better. Great find!
- Jess Lee
It's Hypercard! (edit: no it's not)
- Hayes Haugen
Neat. It's a canvas app.
- Scott Ludwig
Anyone had experience with Balsamiq? Wondering how mockingbird compares
- Adam Kazwell
Nice, but I don't think many clients are going to enjoy being told to 'just upgrade to a PROPER browser!' when they discover they can't view the wireframes in IE
- Duncan
"Proper: Of the required type; suitable or appropriate" Could have chosen a less aggressive word, but it sounds like IE isn't a browser of the required type, so the word is technically correct in this context. The question of whether IE *should* be improper is another matter.
- Kevin Fox
I don't think it's a case of whether it's a proper browser or not, regardless of the definition; the usefulness of the app would be somewhat stunted if one half of team have problems using it. Or at least, I hope I'm not the only one who's had clients who still use IE6, and, for one reason or another, can't upgrade. Anyway, I'll shut up now, this is beta software, just hope that moving forward, they at least support IE8!
- Duncan
There is no sane reason to be developing software for IE6 anymore as it's past for even Microsoft. Yeah, they still make some random updates to it but if some companies are stuck with IE6 (for other reasons than having some software that are binded to that specific version) some might ask if their security policy is working or not.
- Daniel Schildt
It's good to develop software that works in most browsers but there is no good reason go get stuck in the past while creating something totally new. Mockingbird is meant as development tool and if some client does not want to have properly working browser, it's their problem. Wireframes are just the beginning part of UI development so there isn't need that have this kind of software working in ancient browsers (as if developers would still mainly develop everything first for IE6...).
- Daniel Schildt
javascript:void(document.body.contentEditable=(document.body.contentEditable!='true'))
Livia, Mehmet Fatih YILDIZ, Dmitry 'radiant' Volkov and 94 other people liked this
WHOA! Cool!
- AJ Batac
awesome!
- siniradam
you just made my color blind self cry tears of joy - I can now click that to discover all of the links that some crazy color mad designer has "hidden" from me by their color choices
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
wow neat trick
- Onur Gündüz
is there a bookmarklet to make hackernews look good on the iphone?
- Ivan Kirigin
Add this to FriendFeed and you've got Wave :-)
- Jesse Stay
Reminds me somewhat of ClutterMe http://www.clutterme.com/ - they figured out how to make a whole page in-place-editable (javascript of course) - just click anywhere and start typing: http://www.clutterme.com/pages...
- Christopher Galtenberg
Nice, discover links obscured by CSS
- Orlando Pozo
Cute trick. Not being familiar with java script (at all) what is the void%200 statement there for?
- Eric Borisch
Without the void 0, the browser will navigate to a page showing the result of the computation.
- Paul Buchheit
Not grasping the %200, though
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
But that's not the case when I just execute it in the (safari) address bar. I take it that's expected?
- Eric Borisch
%20 is a space. I'm not sure about safari -- I use ff.
- Paul Buchheit
Cool. This + FB + malcontents + screenshots = ???
- Eric Borisch
What is this supposed to do again ?-- it does nothing that I can discern in IE, FF or Chrome (on Vista).
- Brian Sullivan
OK I see what it does on FF.
- Brian Sullivan
But only in FireFox presumably?
- Brian Sullivan
It works on IE
- AJ Batac
So it does -- first time I tried IE8 crashed.
- Brian Sullivan
Works in Chrome, too
- Jan Ole Peek
It doesn't seem to work in 4.0.223.11
- Brian Sullivan
I'm still on Chrome 3.0.195.27 but it says no update detected... this is in Win7. Pretty sure my OSX Chrome is 4.0.223.11 though.
- Jan Ole Peek
4.0.223.11 is the latest in the dev stream.
- Brian Sullivan
Works on Chrome Mac version here. I added the script as a new bookmark in the menu.
- Jesper Lind
Try this instead to avoid the %20 weirdness: javascript:void(document.body.contentEditable=(document.body.contentEditable!='true'))
- Matt Mastracci
Doesn't seem to work either -- maybe a bug in the dev version?
- Brian Sullivan
World's coolest bookmarklet, especially those who are creating demo apps.
- Mike Reynolds
Wow, this is awesome (works perfectly for me in Firefox 3.5). Simple Bookmarklet code that makes Web pages "editable". Now if only there were save + back buttons or something = Instant Wiki.
- Alex Schleber
I realized after playing for a while, some of the keyboard events stop working, like submitting form by hitting Enter .. (FF 3.5.3)
- Onur Gündüz
this is the fundamental line of every wysiwyg editor you use. for IE use allowEdit
- Tzury Bar Yochay
Clicking it a second time makes it un-editable (and therefore it should respond to events and such).
- Paul Buchheit
So how do you discover 'hidden' links.?
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
Cool, worked for me (the box is Windows Chrome 3.0.195.27)
- ǝuǝƃnǝ
I mean in all open tabs and windows, not just in editable mode. It stayed that way, still no keyboard events (not restarted ff yet) :)
- Onur Gündüz
Figured how to make it but what's it good for - pretending to rip other people's stuff to sh*t?
- Michael Slattery
Michael - I'm thinking about possible use as a minor webdesign tool. Of course other tools are more powerful, but this is a nice simple one.
- Deborah Fitchett
Ok, I finally get it
- Michael Slattery
this is the worlds best website
- Grant Rhoades
I tend to agree with Scoble about the "forum problem", but at the same time I really like seeing comments. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think it's less of an issue if you keep groups relatively small. re: http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Nicola Greco, Marc Dong, John Serra and 81 other people liked this
I think the current FriendFeed approach is close to optimal. Do you not see it that way?
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
FF has the inherant ability for the user to take control, both of what they see and the comments they allow. If a user is judicious in their lists and/or filters they should see mostly relevent content (IF that's what they actually want to see). The ability for a poster to moderate comments on their own post gives us the ability to avoid trolls/spam and/or steer the conversation (again,...
more...
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Scoble and other "super users" have this problem much more than regular people because they have thousands of subscribers. This is also part of the reason that Twitter probably works better for celebrities -- it's more of a broadcast channel.
- Paul Buchheit
They could have a million subscribers and it wouldn't be an issue, Paul: turn off comments on his FF posts and it would be all broadcast all the time. It's the number of people they choose to subscribe TO that is the issue. To be honest, it's like someone walking into a football stadium and then complaining that it's too loud. If one chooses to follow thosuands of people one must surely expect that the amount of 'noise' is going to increase.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
One thing that was tossed around a while back was the ability to disable comments from anyone you're not subscribed to: that'd allow those with a lot of subscribers to have high-signal conversations that their subscribers can still see and gain value from.
- Mark Trapp
Perhaps he'd like a 'hide user' button similar to FB? This would prevent the "brings people into YOUR life that YOU DID NOT INVITE!" effect... of course the conversation could be rather disjointed. Maybe a small 'additional comments hidden' status that would show them when desired... Of course, without the conversations, FF == twitter?
- Eric Borisch
Paul, can you help me test something? :)
- directeur
The features that would make FF optimal would be to let users follow each other's hides and blocks. For most users this would be a nice, small improvement. For users like scobleizer it might make a huge difference. Of course, implementation details matter.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
The problem is that we don't keep groups relatively small. There are always those who are like me who like to connect, for one, but even normal people add tons of people to their groups. It's just natural. I remember I was first to add 1,000 people to my Twitter account and people thought I was weird. Now thousands of people do that.
- Robert Scoble
One thing with Facebook is they capped it at 5,000 friends. Which kept it from being used by super-connectors but also caused it to be seen as a place where you talk with just your real life friends. Now that public pages are coming on strong, we're seeing that change.
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: the FriendFeed approach is far from optimal. Many, many people told me they don't like joining a forum and like just lurking instead, which is why they chose Twitter (Tim O'Reilly is not the only one who told me this). Tim Robbins likes that on Twitter he can listen to his heros. He sees it as a learning engine. Those of us here love FriendFeed because it lets us talk. But it definitely turns off lots of people.
- Robert Scoble
Paul: the solution is to let us toggle comments on and off. Give the USER CONTROL. If they just want to listen to their friends, hide all the other noise. But then give us who like commenting ability to turn that back on.
- Robert Scoble
You have the ability to toggle comments on and off: Edit -> Disable Comments.
- Mark Trapp
Robert, comments _are_ content.
- directeur
Mark: that is on a PER ITEM BASIS though. Totally useless for what we're talking about.
- Robert Scoble
directeur: yes, but they are content a LOT of people don't want to see or deal with.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, but then you'll be a megaphone broadcasting "your" views.
- directeur
Robert has the same comments (or the same potential) on his blog as he does on FriendFeed, so I don't think it's the comments themselves. I think it's the fact that FriendFeed makes comments almost on equal level as the original post, instead of burying them way down at the bottom of a page or requiring a click to view. Out of sight, out of mind, right?
- Daniel Sims
Nothing in the API precludes someone from writing a FriendFeed client that hides all the comments so you just see a river of feed items. That's how Twhirl, AlertThingy, and all the native iPhone apps implement FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
I have two arms. I barely use my left one. Please cut it off!
- directeur
Turning comments off entirely would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If you could authorize other users to delete comments on your items, you could minimize the forum problem.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
directeur: that's right. That's what most professional publishers want.
- Robert Scoble
I really think the "comments are awesome, why would you ever want to get rid of comments" argument falls on deaf ears at this point. The solution ought to be how to turn off comments if you want to get Scoble (or the people he's saying he represents) back on the FriendFeed train, or to say they're not worth it. I do think if it weren't for the comments, there'd be at least a half dozen other things Scoble or people like him would come up with to not like FriendFeed at this point.
- Mark Trapp
I like the idea of having another options to disable comments for people you're not subscribed to. That way you can allow conversation, but limit it to people you "know" if it makes you more comfortable or limits the noise. I think you should have the ability to set the option as a default for all new posts but be able to override it on a post-by-post basis: 1) public comments 2)...
more...
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Her Linday-ness: I want that but it would be hard to design.
- Robert Scoble
Mark, I think you make a valid point but then the question becomes: if there are no comments, is FF still the best medium to use? If so, then the ability to turn off comments on one's entire feed should be easy enough to code and implement. I suspect, though, that all things being equal (meaning: there's no ability to comment on an item) FF would no longer be the best medium for a broadcaster.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Mark: I don't think these people will consider FriendFeed at this point. Too much momentum over on Twitter. Look at the news brands: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... you're not going to get them to switch off of Twitter at this point. Sorry. That game is over.
- Robert Scoble
I think the real game is how does Facebook evolve?
- Robert Scoble
The real game is an open decentralized solution. yes, I'm a dreamer.
- directeur
Which leads everyone to wonder why you're trying to nitpick a feature like this, or base your argument on the lack of the feature. The real reason why you (and others like you) aren't into FriendFeed isn't because of the forum problem or the lack of a feature, it's because you think Twitter is better and that's where everyone is. That's fine: that's a great argument. The rest of it is inconsequential to that argument, and wouldn't invalidate it even if you got your way. So what's the point?
- Mark Trapp
I've been talking with a lot of brands and celebrities and regular people. For public studying they like Twitter better. That has Facebook wondering what it will be in the future.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: sorry, but I spent two years talking to thousands of people about FriendFeed and I'm just passing along why they didn't like it. Take that feedback or leave it. Your choice.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: did you speak at dozens of conferences about FriendFeed and Twitter? Did you show hundreds of tech influentials FriendFeed and listen to their feedback?
- Robert Scoble
But your feedback doesn't correlate to the real reason why you, and the people you say you represent, are saying why you won't ever use FriendFeed. You said there's nothing anyone could do to get people to use FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
Mark: if I want to listen to ONLY tech influentials, I can on Twitter. I can't on Facebook. I can't on FriendFeed. http://twitter.com/Scoblei...
- Robert Scoble
Robert, if you're going to pull the "don't you know who I am?" crap, it falls on deaf ears. Let's have a constructive conversation on what you're trying to talk about.
- Mark Trapp
Can't you make lists in FF?
- Andrizzle Gizzle
Sure you can: you can import feeds and lists on FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
Mark: times change and at this point it would be hard to get anyone to take FriendFeed seriously. That said, I believe that it IS possible to move people from Facebook to Twitter or Twitter to Facebook, so THAT is the real battlefront.
- Robert Scoble
any comment thread about 20+ without threading and community promotion/demotion becomes difficult to participate in (for me). Though there is a difference between discussing the radiator on a 94 Subaru and the nature of discussion forums.
- Hayes Haugen
Robert: is the problem really comments or the fact that each time an item gets commented, the items pops back at the top of the list? Regarding the noise, I think that the "problem" with friendfeed is that it was much easier for people to plug in automated feeds and that as a result, there was less of an explicit action. I do not know how other people feel about this but I really miss...
more...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Mark: OK, show me your public list the way I did on Twitter. You can't do that here, sorry.
- Robert Scoble
Hayes: BING BING BING.
- Robert Scoble
Ok, so it's not about who you read, it's who you can show that you are reading.
- Andrizzle Gizzle
Bing goes the internet! lol
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Sure Twitter has a lot of momentum now, but how quickly the winds change. Frankly, it's a shame that FF is going to be neglected... I wish that someone with as much motivation and insight as Paul and the original team could take it over now that FB has consumed them. There is still SO MUCH potential in this platform that it is depressing to see it squandered. @Robert - I don't think it...
more...
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Robert, I don't use public lists: I believe you read my blog post about why I don't. But Hutch Carpenter does, and here's his FriendFeed public list on Innovation Management: http://friendfeed.com/innovat...
- Mark Trapp
Robert, who do you call "influentials"? Do they talk "tech" all the day? Isn't it unhuman? Let's go back to spring/summer 2008, and redefine "smart" for me, please :)
- directeur
Edwin: the problem is on FriendFeed it has the chat problem -- it gets noisy and gets noisy fast.
- Robert Scoble
directeur: influentials are people who influence. I picked them. Shoot me.
- Robert Scoble
The noise is largely proportional to the circles you're in. If you put yourself in a huge room, it will be a loud room.
- Kevin Fox
Robert, do you remember the "MOAR NOISE" phrase? It was THE reason why I built NoiseRiver. Filters, I used to say when you were always saying: MORE NOISE!
- directeur
Kevin: exactly. But on FriendFeed the room gets big VERY QUICKLY because as more people join they drag in their followers with them.
- Robert Scoble
Facebook has the same problem. While we're chatting here, tons of tech news diversity have swooped by.
- Robert Scoble
So Robert, should there be something built in to "warn" others of becoming "chatty". Something that says: "This comment is irrelevant. You may post again when you have something relevant and germane to our discussion"? So WHO makes those distinctions and judgements?
- Melanie Reed
Compare this chat to http://twitter.com/Scoblei... which one brought more information to you? The chat is more fun, cause we're engaged, but it's noisy and if you don't care about it, a waste of time.
- Robert Scoble
Melanie: in a chat room you can't control people that way.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: True, but [big number]*[average number] is far larger than [average number]*[average number]
- Kevin Fox
Hayes you are correct. Slashdot has actually had the best discussion forums for more than ten years because it has threading and community moderation. Its not a trendy social networking site though so no one notices. If you had a social network site where you post topics but with Slashdot like forums it would rock. Only down side is moderators tend to inject bias but /. has good signal after moderation kicks in
- Ed Millard
Robert, I don't care about more information. I have more than enough. :)
- Melanie Reed
Does it really have to be one or the other Robert?
- Chrimmus Tad
from fftogo
(Where you (scoble) are the big number)
- Kevin Fox
Kevin: the problem with FriendFeed is if you and Melanie were having a conversation it would be pretty small, right? But I follow you. The second I touch your conversation it gets big.
- Robert Scoble
If only someone could figure out how to make a room that gets big very quickly appeal to broadcasters...
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
This problem doesn't happen on the private Facebook because you have two-way friending there and a cap of 5,000. But on Facebook Pages? Absolutely. Noise baby noise!
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: broadcasters don't like any of this because there's no way to monetize. Why do you think Arrington really hated this?
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I don't care about more information. I have more than enough. :) What I would like is what Tad is implying in his comment. You know you can have "...two opposites that have learned how to blaze together" ;) And excuse me, but is wrong with a big conversation?
- Melanie Reed
"The chat is more fun, cause we're engaged, but it's noisy and if you don't care about it, a waste of time. " If someone doesn't care about it on FF, they can hide it and not see it again. Problem solved.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Chatting is not intended to provide information. It is like planning -- it is the process of chatting that is what is useful not the words that are spoken/written.
- Brian Sullivan
Thank you, Tina! and Brian!
- Melanie Reed
Melanie: I love big conversations. That's why I loved FriendFeed. But most people aren't like me.
- Robert Scoble
Tina: there are so many things going by on my screen in FriendFeed that hiding them all would take all day long.
- Robert Scoble
Robert -- why is it that you think that people are like you and things should be done for your needs?
- Brian Sullivan
FF is too busy!!
- Joe Silence is not Santa
Brian: again, it's not about me.
- Robert Scoble
Robert one word: APML. I used to yell it back in 2008, no one cared. You want "filters" by personal interest.
- directeur
FreiendFeed sold ME on it two years ago. I've been trying to sell others on it. The feedback I'm giving is from OTHERS.
- Robert Scoble
The Forum Problem is a problem?
- teh Dork Knight aka Kenny
directeur: APML will never work.
- Robert Scoble
oh dear, don't hate the messenger.
- Joe Silence is not Santa
Robert: who are these "others" and what are their numbers?
- Melanie Reed
Paul nailed it - Twitter is a broadcast channel. Massive amounts of subscriptions are fine there - it's all about reach. But if you want discovery, if you want to engage, then FriendFeed and FoaF is where it's all. They're NOT the same. One you can subscribe/follow as many as you want, in the other, subscription abuse will cripple your ability to view and interact.
- AJ Kohn
Finally, a thread on this subject that makes sense.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Threading may or may not help... it seemed to hurt with GoogleWave... it was so hard to follow all the tangents... of course without threading a lot of the tangents just get lost anyway. I guess I have given up on trying to catch everything... If it's important and I didn't see it the first time, eventually the concept will bubble up enough times for me to notice. That's one NICE thing about following lots of people and participating in lots of convos.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
why won't APML, or something like it, work? i missed that memo
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Robert, go say this to Last.fm or the BBC :-) Smart recommendation engines are the future
- directeur
FriendFeed may make some audience/discussion leak out, but also makes audience leak in through seeing what your friends are talking about. Arrington may be mostly concerned about the leak out. Other broadcasters may be looking for the leak in.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Marshall, me neither! :)
- directeur
Also, the meta around the content in FF (likes, comments) is what helps turns random data into information. It's annotated and qualified.
- AJ Kohn
Lindsay: true
- Hayes Haugen
Thank you, AJ, yes. And you can sort that out when you want to on your own time. That's the utility of it.
- Melanie Reed
Perhaps one solution to the 'forum problem' is to allow posters to selectively choose who can participate in the discussion but still be viewable to the public.
- Rodfather
So maybe the real question is, why do some people prefer conversation over broadcasting and vice versa? Is the broadcast-mentality simply a matter of popularity (the inability to reciprocate all the connections, so just broadcast instead) or is the effort it takes to connect with people on a more meaningful basis a major turn-off? Or is it just the tools that people use and what makes it easier for them?
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Rodfather, this will bring wars. Trust me. I'm not a commercial object. So you want to SHOUT and ask me to close my mouth? :) Moreover, close comments, other threads will be started and the noise you wanted to avoid will be even greater. The Streisand Effect, anyone? :)
- directeur
For example: this discussion has 80+ comments and rolling. I don't mind that at all. I am engaged. I am also updating a web page on our web site as I do it and switching over to grade 30 some PRF's for students on the play Macbeth. I am not having any trouble with the "forum problem" or any "chattiness" I learned the "ropes" of FF when I joined and accepted that it as it was.
- Melanie Reed
To me FF turns data (the river of content out there) into information (the good stuff - explained). The tool set FF provides is superior in this way - but it takes time to dial in the right set of filters to apply to the data set (which changes!) and many simply overwhelm the great filtering system they've provided.
- AJ Kohn
A lot of people don't want to put in the time and effort to make the tool work for them like you, AJ and Melanie. I can empathize with that. I think it also has to serve their base inclination of either broadcasting or conversation, and the tool choice is also influenced by whether they already are part of a community on it or not. Most people won't leave their community even if it us using the less appropriate tool for their inclination.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
directeur, then those people can make their own thread and allow everyone to comment. I'm thinking of in case there's a roundtable event where certain 'experts' in a field can have a thread to discuss a topic among themselves without worrying about others cluttering the thread.
- Rodfather
AJ, indeed - the task is to build new concepts with and for filters. Filters, not to shut stuff out, but to mix it better to create a constant flow of narratives.
- zeroinfluencer
AJ, is it more that FF provides the platform for the users to turn that data into information? The users are integral to FF. Now with Twitter you can program a week's worth of tweets (I have heard) but I don't wish to do that. Facebook... you could almost do that-although it does have engagement -you could certainly use it without. But FF runs on an engagement engine
- Melanie Reed
Marshall: I don't trust automatic systems to guess what I'm going to be interested in next. Never seen a system yet that works. But we should debate this.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, we should debate it! The robot that makes all my decisions for me says it's quite likely I would enjoy doing that! ;)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
That's getting into intelligent agents and AI once full blown
- Melanie Reed
if you ask me, and you don't, the problem has always been lack of comment moderation and threading. Too many users isn't a problem if no one sees them. Slashdot was one of the first doing this, using an interface which is actually very similar to FF and it seems to work there.
- Vincent van Wylick
Web tech needs to look outside their dev environments for richer influences in filter design: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- zeroinfluencer
Is the problem that Robert is looking for a single service solution. I see the same 'content' on Twitter and FriendFeed but I scan Twitter for 'raw information' and go to FriendFeed to 'discuss' it with others. I watch the news at home on TV but I talk about it with my friends or work colleagues around the water cooler or coffee shop table. I am comfortable existing in several spaces
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
@Lindsay: I don't know. I'd rather educate people on the power that FF can provide with a little effort. Or, that it actually doesn't take LOTS of subscriptions. Max it at Dunbar's number (which is what I do for my home feed) and you'd be fine.
- AJ Kohn
+++ Johnny Scotty would be proud of you: The right tool for the job
- Melanie Reed
@David: Exactly! My home feed - I tweak it. I use people like Robert and Rob Diana and Michael Fruchter and Anthony Citrano and Thomas Hawk and numerous others to bring a mix of themes and concepts into my feed.
- AJ Kohn
So are we saying that its not the tool itself...but HOW it is or is not used that maxes utility? If so I agree!
- Melanie Reed
@Melanie: Yes, the users are the key. The users are the filters. http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/soylent... And the engagement provides a rich annotation and a secondary level of filtering. So yes, users and their engagement absolutely matter.
- AJ Kohn
Sure, yes, how you use it maxes utility. But it also helps if it's suited to how you WANT to use it... if not it's a struggle. And people don't like to struggle, even if it's possible to make something do what you want it to... easier to use another tool if it fits your purpose better. FriendFeed fits my purpose so it's not a struggle for me... but for someone with a more broadcasting mindset than a conversational one, it's going to be tougher.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Vincent, most long-time FriendFeeders have spoken strongly against any sort of moderation/rating system for comments. No one wants mobs of people trying to control what other people can see like what happens on Digg. It's why every time the topic of 'Unlike' comes up, people rise up to talk it down because it creates an aura of competition and negativity.
- Akiva Moskovitz
AJ, yes! users are the filters.
- Melanie Reed
Akiva +++
- Melanie Reed
Anybody use Mailchimp here? It is tangential to the discussion. They have a cracker jack built in user educational system that monitors and makes usage suggestions.
- Melanie Reed
Is lunchtime finally over yet?
- Hayes Haugen
I'd love to peek in on the recommendation engine discussions. I'm in the 'they don't work camp' myself but I'm open to being convinced and perhaps technology has approached a point where it could work but ... from working in eCommerce I've seen it fail time and time again. Random factors, contextual issues etc.
- AJ Kohn
@Melanie: Know of Mailchimp but don't use. The 'monitor and makes usage suggestions' sounds interesting though.
- AJ Kohn
AJ, that's because the devs didn't pay attention when their instructors (ahem) were teaching it to them. ;)
- Melanie Reed
Another point I'd like to make is that no one is forcing anyone to read the comments here. If people want a broadcast-only medium, it's fairly easy not to click on the 'x more comments' link. Unfortunately, Robert makes a painful observation: he played FriendFeed cheerleader for two years and the people who needed to take the bait didn't or did but then cut loose. That pretty much means...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
Johnny: I am comfortable with all of these too, but it's not about me. But, anyway, the business battle now is between Facebook and Twitter and it'll be interesting to see the choices that Paul's team makes and how those compare with the team NK over at Twitter is making. Then the market will choose which one is best.
- Robert Scoble
Akiva: If I were at Facebook and knew that they could turn into the next MySpace I'd put every single engineering minute onto Facebook. Wouldn't you?
- Robert Scoble
Like I said before, there is still SO MUCH potential here... and it's a shame to see it squandered. I think there are a lot of ways it could be taken to the next level. For sure it could be a contender to Twitter with a few enhancements, but fat chance of that now that there is no longer a dev team, and that it's "parent" is a competitor.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Robert, here's a good example: You want to debate intelligent recommendation agents? Allright, I know that you know Chris Saad. Chris is a very cool guy in fact! But do you know Deniz Oktar? Deniz, who is not as popular as Chris, is a SMART Turkish guy too and works on the same subject. If you limit your view to "popular" people, you'll definitely miss him. And debating such a subject without alternative ideas likes Deniz's or humbly mine, won't be perfect :)
- directeur
Not sure, Robert. Is turning into the next MySpace a good thing for you or a bad thing? For me, it'd be bad.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, go take a look at (and experience) mailchimp's monitor and make usage suggestion system. It's adaptable for a number of scenarios
- Melanie Reed
I think the business battle (other than the marketing to consumers end of it) will be occupied and won by Wave. Facebook, Twitter and FriendFeed are mere toys in that world.
- Brian Sullivan
Melanie, I'm not complaining about a solution that MailChimp could provide. I'm fine with FriendFeed as it is (for the most part).
- Akiva Moskovitz
directeur: most people choose news brands to curate and find new people that will have something valuable to say. See http://twitter.com/Scoblei... for instance. That already is TOO MUCH so telling people to get more people or more things into their lives just isn't going to cut it for most people.
- Robert Scoble
Allowing public panels where only the influential can talk certainly would have a useful role, Its just like panels at conferences. A lot of people would no doubt like to just follow the influential in these forums. On the down side it would make the already influential more so and it would probably lose some audience if it was done a lot because there is no democratic engagement. The people who don't spend all their time cultivating their fame and networks do say interesting things too.
- Ed Millard
directeur: and, anyway. if he's in Turkey and not in San Francisco he's far less likely to influence tech in a major way. So I disagree.
- Robert Scoble
(FYI - look at this conversation and tell me where else anything like this could take place.)
- AJ Kohn
No, we're completely boring and worthless, Ed. We're not worth paying attention to. I mean, who wants to see a picture of our kids? ;)
- Fa La La La Lindsay
IRC or a phpBB messageboard!
- Joe Silence is not Santa
Akiva, I meant for those who might struggle "getting" FF but would enjoy and benefit from it once they do. There's an "on ramp" to FF that rivals North Corridor Dallas coming out of an apt complex on to 50mph+ 4 lane traffic. Some of us are better at that than others, but you still see a lot of cars on the road. :)
- Melanie Reed
There has also been a lack of creative uses using the FF tool sets. Good uses of the tools inspires participation + it's easy to criticize -- harder to create.
- zeroinfluencer
@Robert: Whoa, whoa. Weren't you arguing that adding 8K new people from Twitter Lists was a good thing? Is more better, or worse?
- AJ Kohn
+++David
- Melanie Reed
@David: Good point, no real developer platform. That's been a big boon for both Facebook and Twitter.
- AJ Kohn
Robert, yet he DOES. You just aren't into that speciality :) If you think that every "tech" thing must happen in SF you really miss A LOT.
- directeur
Woah, Robert, so you are saying anyone who doesn't live in SF doesn't count in a tech discussion? That's a little self centered isn't it?
- Ed Millard
I understand it but I really dislike any discussions where the topic seems to be "how can we turn this thing that the people who use it like into something that people who don't use it and would only use it for selfish reasons like?" Screw them. If something's not as "techy" as Slashdot and it's more chaotic because the comments aren't threaded like Slashdot and there's no moderation...
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- Mark H
Lindsay, I want to see a picture of your kids. I only wish I had some to show back. ;)
- Melanie Reed
Ed: you are NOT a careful reader.
- Robert Scoble
Robert's not saying that those ideas can't happen, or that a true revelation can't come from elsewhere, but that ... the likelihood that someone outside of SF to influence tech is less. The Capital of the Internet is SF. I'd agree with that. But that doesn't mean it'll always stay that way, nor does it mean that tech from other areas can't be influential. (least that's how I read it.)
- AJ Kohn
OK I just read it, you still said if you don't live in SF there is very little chance you will have any influence on tech. If you have no influence then you either have nothing to say on the subject, or even if you do have something to say it wont matter.
- Ed Millard
Hrm, I think the whole thing is overblown. My personal FF landing page still has as much utility as my first day (if not more). Bleh, whatever.
- Chieze Okoye
@AJ The FF API is beautiful, I don't think dev communities saw the richness that you can create with the aggregation of FF streams. A few valley PR oriented bloggers pushed 'conversation' as FF's 'killer app' - whereas, the realtime aggregation streams and republishing of content is radical and unique.
- zeroinfluencer
Well I'm pretty sure all the people in Seattle, Toronto, Paris, London, Moscow,Tokyo, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Beijing, Bangalore, Boulder, etc. probably disagree
- Ed Millard
@David: I'll take your word on the API and wouldn't doubt it given the FF team's chops. But fostering usage, that community - that's where things may have gotten shaky. Too few people leveraging it. It could still resolve back to an inability to really grasp what FF can do for them.
- AJ Kohn
AJ, I think you're on to something. Back in the day, usability (including general user and disabled) use to be a well-known topic. Universities made it a part of the curriculum. Everything before and including e-commerce got the once over. But it occurs that the latest generation (including GLS and SM) have outpaced the community standards for usability. It's really the wild west again-...
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- Melanie Reed
Akiva: I suspect the noise problem Robert's describing from others isn't that comment threads get too long. It's that items keep popping to the top as new comments show up, when they don't want to see the new comments. I don't see any way around that except a separate client. It would take too much away from the FriendFeed experience for the default interface not to work this way.
- Bruce Lewis
Mark, I didn't mean to suggest /. is the only solution to the forum problem. If you have really big forum discussions /. is time tested way to control noise and raise the signal level. On the other hand it would probably be a horrible solution for intimate and friendly discussions among friends. Someone earlier Lindsey? kind of had a good suggestion. When you make a post have a row of option buttons and let the poster set the kind of forum for that thread, broadcast, panel, open, modded, thredded, not..
- Ed Millard
Ed: I specifically said "far less likely." I didn't say there is very little chance. But, seriously, this is an argument for another thread. Lots of people think they have influence but actually don't have as much. For instance, I love to think I have influence on Facebook but I'm far less likely to influence that then Paul Buchheit is. Facts are facts.
- Robert Scoble
Chieze glad you like FriendFeed. Me too. It's awesome. But that doesn't mean much to the rest of the world.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, how often do you use "Add This"? It's germane :)
- Melanie Reed
OK we will agree to disagree on that one and drop it. I've lived in the bay off and on, I think there are pluses and minuses to being there.
- Ed Millard
Melanie: "Add This" being the "Add Photos" at top of FriendFeed? Not as much as I should.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: No this service: http://www.addthis.com/ This is fast becoming the SM share button for many websites. Ours uses it. And FF is on it. Take a look at the entire list
- Melanie Reed
FriendFeed's feature set will mean a lot to the rest of the world when it's fully integrated into Facebook in 2011.
- Bruce Lewis
Bruce: I don't think it'll take that long.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you may be right, in which case FriendFeed is a relevant thing to look at. Maybe it isn't actually too far ahead of its time.
- Bruce Lewis
Just like Lisp can make you a better programmer in other languages, FriendFeed can make you a better thinker when writing about other social networks. Popularity isn't everything, even for a blogger.
- Bruce Lewis
You mean, it's not all about attention? :D
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Who really knows why Twitter got all the traction? Does Scoble? I very much doubt it. I think there's a great effort going into finding a logical explanation for Twitter massive success and FriendFeeds more modest gains. My own best guess is that it has more to do with the madness of crowds than it does with any limitation in FriendFeed. Twitter had a decent enough foothold already by...
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- JSLeFanu
from FreshFeed
Twitter got the traction because Twitter's easy. It requires very little effort to get into and it requires even less to participate. It's the same reason why YouTube comments are the cesspool of the Internet and MetaFilter's comments are not: anyone can sit around and watch videos all day and then trash talk them but you make people pay to comment and you'll weed out the chaff almost...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
David: I was there from early days on Twitter and studied how it grew. I know more than you might think. Remember, I was the first person to follow 1,000 people there and I was the 13,800ish user to join.
- Robert Scoble
This link is the most illuminating one on FF traction at the time of the buyout. It indicates FF was just starting to regain traction after it had stalled out for a while and it suggests if maybe FF had stuck it out a while longer things might have changed. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Ed Millard
Twitter got hot in the early days because of Leo Laporte and because of SXSW and because it was goofy fun way for tech influencers to talk to their friends. It just kept growing from there. Another factor in addition to simplicity (Akiva's right there) is the API. Tons of clients and tools and services are built on top of it. FriendFeed got nearly none in comparison.
- Robert Scoble
The difference may be luck of the draw ( a la Gladwell)
- Brian Sullivan
People had to build tons of clients, tools and services for Twitter because the default web UI is so bad.
- Ed Millard
Ed: what that graph doesn't show you is what we now know. Google Wave sucked a lot of attention of geek influentials away (IE Hype) and Facebook's Connect is running away with another game. I went into FriendFeed the week they decided to sell and asked them because I knew Twitter had new features coming that would make FriendFeed less interesting. I think the FriendFeed team looked at the competition and decided to fold.
- Robert Scoble
How could I have ignored the API? It's like Firefox's plug-ins: it's the only thing that makes Twitter usable for many users. Without it, they wouldn't touch it. Heck, if it weren't for Tweetie 2, I wouldn't touch it either.
- Akiva Moskovitz
And Facebook's Connect platform is getting incorporated everywhere. I think FriendFeed was hoping to become part of the general web, like what we did over on http://building43.com and that just wasn't going to happen because Facebook's Connect platform is rocking and rolling now. In fact, I made a fundamental blunder by not going with Facebook on Building43. If I had, our traffic would have been much higher than it is now.
- Robert Scoble
You can be sure that once CNN and other assorted media outlets started plugging Twitter it was game over. Once the band wagon was rolling every "personality" was going to hop on. It is a little disturbing that Miley Cyrus has now joined the "everyone should delete their Twitter accounts" camp.
- Ed Millard
David Hall +1 Steven Berlin Johnson would be a good reference - the persistence of babble is incredible valuable in phatic communications. FF, through the web interface hides a lot of that. Instead, the babble was more bookmark centric and less about 'having a sandwich'. That's why you have, on the whole, better conversation threads on FF, and ending up having to duck out of the way of...
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- zeroinfluencer
Disturbing REALLY????? My word, Miley is absolutely right <sarcasm/>
- Roberto Bonini
To paraphrase Louis Gray's wife, "nerds in startups are fickle". I speculate they had a lot of self doubt when they stalled out prior to that up tick, and decided to sell just about the time FF was starting to take off again. Someone waves $50 million at you during a period of self questioning that is a potent motivator, I think Zuckerberg saw that and he did nip a potential competitor in the bud.
- Ed Millard
But all the above comments is about public sharing. I use FF a lot for project planning and development - it's fast - you can discuss items with good archive search, and you can post media. I wonder how many people use FF in this way, and ignore the public babble?
- zeroinfluencer
Having read most of this thread (and Robert, comments are VERY valueble) the"forum problem" is NP-complete. Comments are valuable becuase seeing people reason is often just as enlightening, if not more so, than the original information.
- Roberto Bonini
Ed - mind you, there's only a few ways you can get to the helm of the FB API design and product development. :) Who's to say this isn't all going according to plan?
- zeroinfluencer
Roberto: me and you agree on that. In my research most people do not. They see these things as noise. But, if you make the comments toggle on and off we BOTH win! Plus, comments REALLY help search!
- Robert Scoble
Ed: correction, it was $50 million.
- Robert Scoble
Robert you keep talking about "your research". Is this anything more than anecdotal conversations?
- Brian Sullivan
David, Well maybe Paul and Co. are doing a trojan horse on FB but what I've read about Zuckerberg he doesn't seem likely to relinquish control of anything he cares about and I am skeptical you are going to turn FB in to FF with their entrenched user base.
- Ed Millard
@Scoble you're arguing from authority again. I think on a broadcast platform like Twitter that's an easier one to pull off. On Twitter it's a big "so what" if you've posted a load of BS because most people will simply miss any challenge to your "content." Post the same on FriendFeed and you get tackled and you get tackled in public. Reasonable enough grounds to explain your current stance and certainly as good as any reason I've heard you put forward yourself.
- JSLeFanu
Robert, I stand corrected, and it is corrected, this editing your posts thing is one of FF's scarier features.
- Ed Millard
OPEN QUESTION: Is FF gaining or losing users? I see very little here now - but I'm told user numbers are going through the roof.
- Jim Connolly
Ed: tell me one thing. What's the biggest difference between FF and FB? There's already not as much difference as you'd might think. The one thing I miss over there? Real time search.
- Robert Scoble
Twitter got big because it's about ego. Look at me, Me, ME! Twitter flourished because people like to talk about themselves. (FF is not, which is why it hasn't gained nearly as much traction.) It was developed as an update service. It has evolved into ... something else. As for comments, they are invaluable.
- AJ Kohn
Jim: user numbers are not going through the roof here. I don't know anyone credible who has said that. The registered numbers are going up, but the active numbers are going down.
- Robert Scoble
AJ: FriendFeed is just as much about ego as Twitter is. If not more so.
- Robert Scoble
Ed, the goal is to design influentially for the web. Paul B does seem to give that ethos in his startup camp talks and general interviews. I would think FB would warm to that ideology.
- zeroinfluencer
Very true. Robert.
- Roberto Bonini
@Robert: How? Seriously, I'd like to hear your opinion.
- AJ Kohn
Robert: In other words, as people like yourself, Arrington and even those little guys like myself with a couple of thousand subscribers leave - we're being replaced by less active users. Makes sense. I used to check in on and off all day. Now, 2/3 times a week,
- Jim Connolly
Jim: not true. I don't see a lot of people joining in here and I'm watching it closely. Sorry. More people are leaving the back door than are coming in the front.
- Robert Scoble
To me the two big ones are 1) perception that it more walled garden networks and not as open though certainly it has avenues which are more open like FF 2) its home to massive quantities of apps, games, spam from people trying to get rich that hold no interest to me, though obviously many others like them. FF is probably just overlooked by that crowd, if it were bigger it would be infected with all that crap too. FF seems to mostly just be good people from my limited time here.
- Ed Millard
All User Centric Design is modeled around the ego. Good software design keeps that in mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- zeroinfluencer
AJ: Twitter is, for many people, about business now. Not ego at all. News brands: http://twitter.com/#... no ego. Tech companies: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... No ego. But here? It's ALL about ego!
- Robert Scoble
David is right.
- Robert Scoble
On Twitter the default is to show number you follow, number of followers, number of Tweets. That's all playing on ego and popularity. Nearly everything (even lists) is geared to stimulate a innate need to acquire more of something as a way to ... validate contribution or perceived influence or authority. FF does not show this in the default mode.
- AJ Kohn
Companies and brands are the most aggressive form of ego there is, and they usually are direct reflections of the ego of the company's CEO.
- Ed Millard
Alright Robert. In order to reduce the signal to noise ratio, we can do one of two things, we can use "Likes" to filter the comment stream. If I Like more posts from Robert than i do from LG, Roberts comments appear but not LG's. We can use semantics to (somehow) sort the thread and show comments relevant to the original post. (simply dumping noise isin't a solution - not all noise is noise all the time. Likewise, increasing signal in an echo chamber is fruitless)
- Roberto Bonini
@Robert: Oh, I think Twitter is a great business tool! It's a marketers paradise. But I'm not sure that's what most people believe it to be. People still think they're going to get some sort of social dialog there. I think it's why Twitter churn is so high. People get it thinking it'll be one thing and quickly find out it's another.
- AJ Kohn
+1 AJ, there are some people that use Twitter in awesome, constructive, useful, ways like Tim O'Reilly and Jay Rosen but a lot of people its pure self promotion. As for news outlets using twitter they are going to go wherever the eyeballs are, and they will go to multiple networks not just Twitter. Those are pure broadcast, no engagement, they aren't really a ringing endorsement of why Twitter is great.
- Ed Millard
I'd bet FF *would* take off (but be worse for it) if it listed how many times the content I fed got liked and commented on, and that (along with subscribers etc.) were all listed right there at the top of my home feed. And that upon signing up, I'd get suggested users based on subscriptions but also who got the most likes and comments. Yet, I don't think that's conducive to what FF really excels at.
- AJ Kohn
@Robert, biggest difference between Facebook and Friendfeed - reciprocal connections. Without a doubt. The apps, the ads, other stuff, is true, but for me the central difference, and the thing that betrays a fundamental difference of worldview between the two apps is whether or not you can follow someone's content without them having to follow you back. You can only do that on Facebook...
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- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
@Ed: I realized a long time ago that Twitter was a big Internet megaphone. And if you could get a lot of people to 'listen' to that megaphone well, that's powerful stuff. It's about Reach. Twitter gives your message reach. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't see it as ... transforming.
- AJ Kohn
Those who study the art of propaganda consider reach to be everything, because following reach is influence, and following influence is control. TV is losing its reach in the Internet era so most of those "brands" and "personalites" are rushing to find a way to regain it, enter Twitter and FB. They are better because they are bidirectional.
- Ed Millard
*Noise* :)
- ashish
@Ed: I'd be interested to see more on how reach leads to influence. It often does but ... not always. Plenty of multi-million dollar ad campaigns in the graveyard as examples. Reach + ? = influence.
- AJ Kohn
Ed I think you're right. I caught that TC piece at the time too. Seems to me that the FriendFeed guys had a bit of a crisis of confidence and grabbed lunch while it was on offer. In any case I always figured FriendFeed as a place to graduate to once you'd rammed up against Twitters limitations. And, as I'm sure you know, that doesn't take long. That's how I got here. I was actually on...
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- JSLeFanu
You don't have influence until you have reach so its the prerequisite. Then it a matter of how effectively you craft the message and push the buttons in your target audience. Some people are good at that part, some aren't, some fail, some succeed.
- Ed Millard
Robert, I just wonder. Isn't twitter more about consuming the information and FF more about sharing and discussing? Look at http://twitter.com/Scoblei.... What can anyone add to that or comment on that? I agree it is getting a lot noisy in here (exhibit, this post). But not all posts will be this noisy I think.
- Amit
+1 Jandy, she answered Robert's challenge to me better than I did.
- Ed Millard
@Ed: I'm not sure. New memes start with someone small sometimes. Say ... keyboard cat ... and someone who has reach communicates that message and it goes big. So who has the influence? The creator of keyboard cat or the person to has the reach to make it go big? I find it very interesting.
- AJ Kohn
Jandy: +100. You just nailed for me why I like Twitter and FriendFeed better than Facebook. Agreed.
- Robert Scoble
Robertt, maybe this post and the scads of comments prove your point, but maybe your point is limited to your own experience due to your unique position in tech. You speak, noise follows. But that does not make Friendfeed irrelevant or useless for the average or even just left or right of average user. You have a unique experience that is going to color any forum you put your time into....
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- Martha
+++Jandy
- Melanie Reed
Well put, Jandy.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I think the forum problem is not as big in smaller more intimate groups. Recently I've been very active in the DMU group here that includes a lot of folks who've migrated here from Flickr. The relevancy is much more higher in these venues than in the main feed because it's a smaller controlled experience. I do wish though that groups were more full featured like the rest of FF though....
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- Thomas Hawk
oh of course and photo voting pools for groups would by awesome too. ;)
- Thomas Hawk
Lists are not enough. Twitter, FF and other social networks need tagging by default, then filter on list + tag. That's the element that would kill the noise and turn them into interest networks.
- howard shippin
from BuddyFeed
Martha: you might have a point if we were just talking about me. But we're not. So, try again. Again, I've talked with thousands of people about these things. They tell me they don't like the noise that public forums bring. I've been doing this for 25 years and this isn't the first time I've heard this pushback. Facebook, by the way, on its iPhone app, handles it perfectly: it hides all...
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- Robert Scoble
You all keep referring to this as either chat or comments when actually its a discussion. I think that the ability to discuss anything on Friend Feed or anywhere else for that matter IS where you learn the most. I'm not techy like most of you, I'm just an ordinary 'average' user, but I see twitter more as a 'newsreel' of info, shallow but instant, whereas Friend Feed is more a 'thrashing out of ideas and opnions, and is therefore all the richer for it.
- Sandra Large
Sandra: chat/discussion/forum/comments are all pretty much the same thing. Yes, the two are different. There CAN be lots of learning here, it's just that this is a lot noiser than other online things in some ways.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, about noise: when you or other tech influencers introduce FriendFeed, you show the things you're excited about, which tend to be big and noisy, right? And if you're the first person someone follows on FF, they're going to get a noisy first impression. The slower growth that doesn't come through tech influencers may have less of a back door.
- Bruce Lewis
And about the 25+-year-old forum problem: Moderated Usenet was great until moderators slacked off. Decentralized moderation fixes that, at least for small discussions. Larger discussions can lead to whack-a-mole (though I notice this one hasn't), but with one of the suggestions I made earlier in this conversation the number of whackers could scale with the number of moles.
- Bruce Lewis
Moderation = censorship. Censorship sucks. Give the users control to hide and block. The less censorship the better.
- Thomas Hawk
@Paul - what about a view to only see the user's posts/content ie no comments of others and no likes => then it becomes twitter like
- Kishore Balakrishnan
Come on, it's hardly messier than Facebook, since the default view only includes the first and last comment. Basically the gist I'm getting is that people who think they're important don't want to listen to people who they don't think are important. Such is the human race, I suppose.
- Victor Ganata
+++Victor hammer meets nail.
- JSLeFanu
Robert said "FB iPhone app ... hides all comments with an arrow that you can then use to expand the comments. That is so much better than this mess here that it isn't funny". Robert, I must be missing your point because FF also hides most comments until you expand them because you want to read them... Don't want to read FF comments, don't expand them, problem solved. Or are you saying FF is a "mess" because it shows first and last comment?
- Ed Millard
235 comments! I really don't want to expand *that* on FF! Is this a pain-point for anyone else?
- Space Cowboy
Not for me. If I'm interested enough in the topic or dialog I'll click the time stamp and open the post page to read everything. The text amount is comparable to a medium length blog post: if I have the time to read that I have the time to read this if it interests me.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
A typical blog post? Dragging & copying the comments only (which took about a min. of scrolling) produced 9200 words and 23 pages of text. Blog posts also tend to have a more easily read narrative.
- Vincent van Wylick
The problem is for big conversations like this one you need threading and maybe moderation, but for more normal conversations that are smaller flat is better. Allowing a switch between the two adds complexity. For big conversations FF lacks the button to reply to a specific poster so the viewer can thread, at least as an option. Much of the noise level in this conversation is due to people having to manually try to fake threading.
- Ed Millard
The threading vs. flat conversation is interesting to me - we've tried multiple times to put Disqus or Intense Debate on a film blog I write for, and every time we meet huge resistance to threading ESPECIALLY on long threads. People say they have a lot of difficulty finding the new comments when they aren't all at the top or bottom.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Why can't there be a summary fly-out with timestamps based on response rate to single comments and a "last comment made" link as well as "thread count" links and lastly, "participants in this thread" link? Collapse everything else except the initial post. The initial interface looking like this one, should always be available for those who want to "sort through". You want the...
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- Melanie Reed
Jandy, you kind of have to let the user flip between threading and flat to solve the chronology problem. Slashdot has a popup menu at the top that lets you view in "Threaded, Nested, Flat, No Comments". The down side is the UI gets progressively more complex both to implement and use unless you are going to force everyone to lowest common denominator UI.
- Ed Millard
But Ed, that's what I have against the traditional "threaded" approach: all the fork like structure. It does get complicated real fast. What's needed is somewhere a "summary" for those jumping in late to "catch up" but also the "single comment" link to democratize the discussion. Threads have all the indentation problems of trying to follow that way IF I am picturing what you mean by thread.
- Melanie Reed
+1 Ed
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
My other observation is this: everyone creates a "story" about the ideas and information they are taking in and immediately starts associating connections in their mind creating a mental picture whether they realize it or not when they are perceiving that information. Our user interfaces don't yet lend themselves to that especially where it come to dialogue and forums. We've accepted a...
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- Melanie Reed
Here's why you don't need indented/tangential threading: FF discussions tend to be small enough to fit in the "RAM" in one's mind. It curtails many threads that might ramble; the exception (like Paul's thread here) comes when the power of the topic/zeitgeist and vibe of a live chat going strong overrides that usual point of decay. Predictablly, one or several commenters here will start a new thread or escalate it to a blog post and summarize their thoughts based on what transpired on this stream.
- Micah Wittman
Melanie, have you used Slashdot, they did forums earlier and better than anyone. The forum starts out flat, and then starts threading. Random community moderators start modding up the insightful posts, and burying the trolls, crap, etc. Once the moderation kicks in the "summary" is all the posts that were modded up to 5 which are shown expanded. All the lower moderated stuff is there but you have to clck to see. Slashdot would suck like YouTube comments if they hadn't solved the forum problem.
- Ed Millard
It's organic, not hierarchical. As other have stated, there is as much to learn from watching the process unfold as there is to gain from end result.
- Micah Wittman
Ed, no, I haven't used Slashdot but I'm willing to give it a try. I'm pretty adaptable. But when I see a problem and it becomes "the picture" for me, in this case a circle then I know its time for the leap out of the present "prison of one idea". ;)
- Melanie Reed
Micah, its true threads are bad for small friendly forums. Some of this discussion is about what happens when the forums on "celebrity" social expert's threads get so big they overflow readers brains and they turn in to *noise*. One noise problem is organization, the other is some post and some posters are better than others in the mind of the celeb and the reader.
- Ed Millard
Slashdot dealt with most of the forum problems ten years ago, they had to to survive the trolls. The problem is their UI needs to be complex to be flexible and keep everyone happy. Their audience is also mostly geek power user. When you get to social networks the other UI school is demanding the UI be dirt simple so the unwashed masses can cope, but dirt simple mean its inflexible and it ticks off nearly everyone, especially power users. Hard problem to solve... making everyone happy.
- Ed Millard
Ed, conferences have break-out groups. The same idea should be employed.
- Micah Wittman
Ed, yes, you offered a little explication for others of what happens when you lost the ability to categorize your"story" into a mental picture that is associated with previous "stories" you have stored in the brain. That end result is "noise". Some of us are better at doing that than others, that's true. But there come a point of over flow for all of us. What our UI needs to do is to amplify and assist in that "story" constructing process.
- Melanie Reed
Break out groups is a nice idea, but it seems a bit cumbersome. You need to make a new post, post a link here and get some critical mass from the first forum to move. If you do it five times you would splinter the first forum and lose critical mass, especially in a "real-time" forum where people will only watch one forum at a time. Chances are most people will cling to the first forum if its interesting.
- Ed Millard
Ed and Micah, what I hear both of you saying, and Robert as well, is that at some point in the "story" constructing process, the dialog from the forum needs to end in the narrative of a blog. Up till now, the blog component has been a random, unattached part of the discussion. AM I hearing that you think that in some way it should become part of the UI? So that the discussion gets...
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- Melanie Reed
Not sure I follow, blog is kind of a one voice, one direction thing, only way a forum morphs to blog is when once person splits off the forum to make a more in depth point and posts the blog link to the forum. I'm mostly just talking about the various methods for restoring order in a big forum, and improving signal to noise ratio. Most entail putting more options and more UI in and around the forum and making the UI more complex which many think is bad on a social network.
- Ed Millard
Ed, as I was writing this, it occurs to me that what I'm suggesting is what I may have just figured out (finally) that Google Wave is trying to get us to do. But if so, I beleive FF could actually do it better. the "noise" problem that was created by the various forms of SM, inside and outside of the platforms, was the inability to "connect the dots". We didn't have a framework for how...
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- Melanie Reed
One of the problems that we haven't solved is the usefulness of digression and random access of connective tissue in the "story" process. That's the wild card that often comes up as "noise"
- Melanie Reed
I can't speak for Robert. Some of his issue "seems" to be he only wants to see the Silicon Valley/SF movers and shakers in his feed talking about tech and social networks, and he doesn't much want anyone but that same group to be posting on forums under his auspices. Friend Feeds openness is bad for that. The same is true for all the Twitter celeberati. They don't want peons anywhere near their online presence to tarnish it.
- Ed Millard
Only way I can see to maintain FF openness for those who want it, and celeb broadcast only mode for the celebs who demand it, in one social network is you have to have an option when you make a post on your feed to control the forum methodology (i.e. broadcast only peons can only look on, panel mode where only my social elite are allowed to speak & peons can watch, private where only my circle can speak and see (FB mode), or completely OPEN(FF mode).
- Ed Millard
There also seems to be an issue where someone you follow, through the "like" process, can inject pictures of kittens, babies and man titteh in to your feed. Of course that is kind of the original point of social networks, seeing what your network sees. I think some just want hard core tech news and talk and twitter lists probably do allow an uber though somewhat lifeless feed like that.
- Ed Millard
Ed, well, that is the territory of the heart when it comes into contact with the machine. And oddly (or maybe not so oddly) there is a post on my feed that addresses that theme: http://friendfeed.com/faithx5... ;) Digression and Random access at work. lol And I find that refreshing. I'm always excited about how some new idea may be generated because I allowed what...
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- Melanie Reed
@Melanie: I fully believe in non-linear learning. The ability to take input from diverse thematic content and synthesize something ... to apply something from one world to the other. That's where I think we're heading. I think of it a little bit like a digital version of Burroughs' Cut Up technique: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- AJ Kohn
I can't believe I read the whole thing
- Michael Slattery
Such a simple and obvious solution: provide an optional *LIST* view for Friendfeed items. Open the comments only on items that look really interesting. Am I missing something obvious? Then Friendfeed could easily emulate Twitter on all essentials (and surpass it in many other areas).
- Sean McBride
Sean, I think the obvious thing you are missing is there are no FF developers any more so FF probably isn't getting anything it doesn't already have. And there are camps here that don't really like the alternatives that FB and Twitter offer which is why this is such a hot button issue. I wish there was one social network that had lists, open forums, walled gardens, and broadcast mode based on the wishes of the person running a feed so everyone could be happy in one network.
- Ed Millard
Think big. Code small.
John μller, Itachi, Laura Norvig and 89 other people liked this
How small?
- τorƍue
10 CLS
- Mattb4rd
Excellent advise K.I.S.S. :)
- Susan Beebe
How Big?
- John D Reasor
+ John
- τorƍue
Big enough to change the world, and small enough to get done right now.
- Paul Buchheit
Amen - release early, release often, especially as an entrepreneur
- Jesse Stay
Please provide a list of projects that we can get done right now that'll change the world. kthxbye
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, I think the saying is, "a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
- Paul Buchheit
Yeah, I figured you'd say something like that ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Paul, when you said "code small", was that just the first step? :)
- τorƍue
It's also the second step.
- Paul Buchheit
The next trick is taking all those steps in one direction, otherwise you can end up dancing around in one place like a madman, not actually getting anywhere. :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
20 ? "Shall we play a game?"
- Mattb4rd
Yes, good point Ken, though sometimes we must navigate around obstacles such as mountains and oceans.
- Paul Buchheit
And sometimes you have to head downhill to get to the top of that peak off in the distance.
- Ken Sheppardson
Don't forget time itself
- Jesse Stay
booo yaaa!
- Bill Heslin
On average, how much of a code project's big success could be significantly attributed to luck? Luck alone never gets it there, but still. I code because of the small rewards, so whatever the answer is, I'm fine with it. :)
- Micah Wittman
This is a more likely result, but keep swinging: http://friendfeed.com/funny-p...
- Mattb4rd
Think BIG. Code SMALL. Maintain ZERO! (Ideal conditions!)
- Nishant
Think small. Code big. http://ws.apache.org/xmlrpc...
- Kelly Norton
lol @Kelly
- Nick Lothian
I'm currently coding for a machine that has 12 bytes of variable memory and 256 bytes of program memory. In a language with 32 commands. Am I coding small enough?
- Kevin Fox
Now wonders what Kevin is working on for Facebook ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Sounds like a remote control.
- Cristo
I've been coding a few of these for Halloween: http://efx-tek.com/topics...
- Kevin Fox
Cool. What's the application?
- Cristo
Light and sound effects with a few triggers.
- Kevin Fox
I must admit to being baffled by systems shipping with many gigabytes of code now that have similar functionality to systems with a few megabytes of code 15 years ago.
- Cristo
Kevin, nice! Now I want one. I remember writing a BASIC program in High School that controlled some AND gates via parallel cable on a circuit board we created in my electronics class. The purpose was to control 4 step motors. Awesome that you can just pre-program a chip now on a device like this that will do similar things. Need to look into that.
- Jesse Stay
Check out Revision3's podcasts. There are some with Patrick Norton doing this on System (I think that's the right one)
- Mattb4rd
@Paul: Which font size do you recommend for the code editor? 14pt? or is 10pt even better? ;)
- Jemm
Like jquery
- ★ Soner Gönül
Soner - that's a great example, actually. jQuery has been transformative, IMO, even in the face of alternative JS frameworks which aren't bad, just not greatness in a small package.
- Micah Wittman
Paul isn't it time for another sip of the premature optimization is the root of all evil kool-aide? You just aren't getting it :-)
- Todd Hoff
Paul Buchheit - Been at your job too long? QUIT! - Startup School 2009 - http://vimeo.com/7240218
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Felicia Yue, Alexander Arsky, Sachin and 88 other people liked this
couldnt agree more
- sean percival
I wonder how long he means when he says that. 5 years? 3? Less?
- Diego Barros
I don't know, I was with my first company for 4.5 years. That still made me kinda the new guy, as a lot of employees were there 20 to 30 years. I guess it depends on industry. That was the insurance industry, and as long as there was a way up I was happy with that company. Now working in dot coms, working at a place more that two years is impressive. In some ways I don't necessarily...
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- Dario Gomez
I was at my last job 8 1/2 years. In that time, Facebook and Twitter were started, Google grew up, and Bush started two wars. Maybe I stayed too long.
- Louis Gray
I'd rather my longevity at a company be determined in terms of achieving some goal. If it does not look like I will be able to accomplish something interesting, novel, or useful then I'll bail. Idiotic politics usually short circuits that game plan though.
- scott anderson
I've never worked a job for more than 2 years. I like finding new levels of experience. If they kept it a learning experience I would stay longer, but never found a company that did that.
- Jesse Stay
Scott, your reasoning led to my longevity there. I wanted to reach an end, be it M&A, IPO or something else. But it eventually became time.
- Louis Gray
Louis: The goals I set are more personal and typically are not dependent on what the company and/or my division achieves. I have been fortunate in that I have always been able to drive the projects or sub-projects that I have worked on. That said, politics and the agendas of other individuals still find a way to mess up the best of intentions.
- scott anderson
++ scott. I agree with, "If you’ve been in your job for awhile, you should quit. Google was really comfortable. I knew all the people. It’s important to do things that will make you uncomfortable." with the caveat that it is important to find a place where you can accomplish something and stay there long enough to give it legs or cut it loose. I hear overnight success takes a long time. Otherwise you are just uncomfortable for no good reason.
- Clare Dibble
Bold advice in hard times.
- Tim Tyler
great advice for people who don't have a mortgage or a family
- Terris Linenbach
+1 Terris
- Bill Hooker
Terris, I have a family of 4 kids and a mortgage. As I said I've never had a job longer than 2 years. As for going out on your own, it's difficult, but very possible. It involves a lot of sacrifice though.
- Jesse Stay
Going out on my own was the one of the best decisions I ever made in my life (even with a mortgage, family and a new baby at the time). I ended up back at a company, but this time I had founded it. There are many ways to make your life work on your own. If you really want to do it, just step off the cliff. You'll figure out a way to make it work.
- Matt Mastracci
Matt, funny how that happens - my wife was pregnant when I went out on my own as well. I still don't know how we managed all that. :-) I agree though - it was the best decision of my life. I may end up at a job again at some point, but as Paul said, at the time it "sounded like the right thing to do". I've learned so much from being on my own, and the freedom is priceless. (Paycheck, much of the time is not so priceless) :-)
- Jesse Stay
Actually it's a great advice for people who have mortgage and family and are taking it responsibly rather then being complacent in hope their current employer is here forever.
- ǝuǝƃnǝ
eugene, yeah - one thing I've learned more than anything is that control is a good thing. Even if I work for someone else I always want to be sure I've got my own thing of some sort going that I could resort to at any time (a book, side-business, blog, investments, advisory roles, etc). Of course you have to be careful about that at the same time in that your employer knows of such things and is okay of you owning that IP.
- Jesse Stay
To be clear, if you have kids, etc, find a new job before quitting your current one :)
- Paul Buchheit
It was such a pleasure to be in the audience for this!
- Jay
Paul, how long do you think is too long?
- Diego Barros
Whenever you get "too comfortable" :o)
- Susan Beebe
Yeah, the correct answer obviously depends on your situation (how much you will learn at the new job vs the old), but in general I'd guess that "too long" falls in the 5-10 year period, though if your job is bad, "too long" may happen much sooner :)
- Paul Buchheit
Totally agree with this, esp the quote at the end "It's important to do things that make you uncomfortable". IMO, people grow the most when they are forced out of their comfort zone
- Dave Hodson
It's important to do things that will make you uncomfortable because.......???
- τorƍue
Growth and flexibility. Obviously not all uncomfortable things are good though.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul Buchheit is Sarah Palin?
- Jim Norris
One of my friends has been at Apple for 10 years. She's a brilliant engineer (I've known her since college). Her reason for staying: "I've got 3 kids. They need lots of care and nurture, and they're providing plenty of challenge in my life. I don't need more." My mom sacrificed her career for her 3 kids. Her sister continued pursuing her career, since she only had one. When looking at...
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- Piaw Na
That's very reasonable Piaw -- I agree that good parents are more important than good toys or schools. The "quit your job" advice was more for people looking to start a company or something.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul agreed - entrepreneurship isn't for everyone. My dad tried it, decided it wasn't for him, and he'll be retiring in about 10 years or so after years and years of building a very successful career in the professional world. If it's for you, there are ways to make it work and provide for a family - it involves a lot of work though, and make sure you're prepared when you do it. (I sold...
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- Jesse Stay
@Scott Anderson - absolutely - I'll leave when the job is done or the politics make finishing what I need to do impossible.
- Dan Morrill AKA Techwag
@Jesse It's not about providing for the family. I'm sure entrepreneurs manage to do that or they go out of business very quickly. It's investing time in the family that's usually the missing ingredient. I know, since I did have a largely absent entrepreneurial father.
- Piaw Na
Doggy Handstand! - http://www.zee.me/blog...
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Wulffy, Michael Slattery, andy and 16 other people liked this
【事情不大但很恶心】被Friendfeed盗版头像图片，怎么办？ - http://justso.cn/2009_10...
HealingBrush, laistery, Marc Dong and K.D. liked this
手机上看的，挺震惊，未确认真伪
- Rat2
哈哈，新闻！！！
- K.D.
丁丁情何以堪
- ThenWang
没有看到文中Justso给出的证据呢。。
- K.D.
貌似没看到证据
- Roger.Wei
这么丑的图片居然还是香饽饽
- topo
我同意这个图片确实很丑，那个人也没证据，不过好歹是个 Blogger, 不至于借这个炒作吧……
- Rat2
这个图片又不需要什么技巧，我觉得FF cf自己画出来也不是不可能，不会有小学生跳出来说毛250写的“一师是个女子学校”是盗版吧
- topo
桃花叔说的，哈哈， +1
- Rat2
没太看懂，‘用来给Friendfeed和Facebook做头像用’，博主主动/受邀画了此图给FF和FB让他们作头像用？或是博主是画了这个头像作为自己FriendFeed的头像，然后FriendFeed就使用此用户头像作为网站的默认头像？不知道有没有人记得ff建站初期是否就用了这个图。不知道博主的FF id是啥？
- pala
证据，证据，证据.....
- K.D.
当时我就震惊了... 您直接上美国联邦法院状告facebook吧, 我们恨非死不可...
- 麦克.疯
Spurs players' nicknames in China - http://www.spurstalk.com/forums...
Marc Dong liked this
NBA fan base in China is very large, and I've got some interesting stuff about Chinese Spurs fans. I hope you like it. *1.*I did a survey asking about "which kind of Spurs fan are you", the results illustrates information below: -87.0% are Tim Duncan fans -69.1% are Manu Ginobili fans ...
How does one pronounce Paul Buchheit? I think I'm doing it wrong.
Marc Dong, Itachi and WorldofHiglet liked this
buh-ket
- WorldofHiglet
...not really, but in my head that what I say - blame English tv!
- WorldofHiglet
he himself says "boo-height"
- MicahBear78
I pronounce it with a SH sound. BOOSHET is my approximation. If I got it wrong, I''m going to need to do some voiceover work for my next episode.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
he was on the ffundercats.
- MicahBear78
True. That's why I figured I got it wrong. I remember Johnny pronouncing it differently.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Hehe - waiting for Josh to comment on Johnny's pronunciation of words....
- WorldofHiglet
I assumed it was book-height.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
I pronounce it "boo-sh-hite"
- alphaxion
Johnny pronounces everything differently
- MicahBear78
Boo-Kyte?
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
boo-HEIGHT He says it himself here: http://www.ffundercats.com/2009...
- Josh Haley
I say we just call him Bob and be done with it ;P
- alphaxion
Boo Height, as Josh says above.
- Louis Gray
One thing I like about Mark Zuckerberg: he is willing to piss off his users once a year to take Facebook forward.I
Amadou M. Sall, DC Crowley, ax0n and 19 other people liked this
When you see the mistakes Friendster, MySpace, Friends Reunited (UK) made that led to their irrelevance, it makes sense to keep pushing the art forward. I believe Facebook realise that and thus keep taking the best aspects of Twitter/FF etc. However they still need to retain their innovative edge, which I believe they have kind of lost over the past year.
- Jamie
Golden rule in software: you can't satisfy all your customers all of the time. So, in order to improve there is no way around pissing users off.
- Rene Wirtz
First, FriendFeed is _not_ going away. (in fact, we're working on switching it to new servers) Second, I know everyone wants to know what the team is working on, but we don't pre-announce things, so for now all I can say is that there's good stuff on the way. Re: http://friendfeed.com/jworthi...
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I know that doesn't answer everyone's questions, but I hope it helps.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, working on friendfeed.com stuff or facebook.com?
- Kol Tregaskes
I like the first sentence. The rest is just gravy.
- Derek Coward
I'm totally happy if we just reside on decent servers, and get occasional IT help... We'll keep the rest of the ship running :)
- Christopher Galtenberg
Paul - is that why it's been slower lately vs.pre-fb ?
- Allen Stern
Paul please repeat it in re-phrased form: Friendfeed is NOT going to repeat destiny of Jaiku? Y/N
- A.T.
*processing statement...*
- Micah Wittman
Can't wait... **Fingers tapping desk impatiently**
- AJ Batac
But what does "going away" mean, Paul? And what does "team" mean? And when you say "pre-announce", are you talking about the Palm Pre?
- Ken Sheppardson
Allen, the slowness is due to growth (more users and more data), but I put in a few fixes yesterday that should speed things up a bit.
- Paul Buchheit
thanks paul
- Allen Stern
Paul, sometimes when I open up threads I get the Opps... error. Is that related? It has been happening more and more these last few days.
- Kol Tregaskes
Still better than twitter and facebook. Thanks for the update!
- Mike Nencetti
Paul, thanks for the incredible work with FriendFeed. Please, keep it alive! and most importantly keep it FriendFeed!
- Ciro
as long as FF doesn't go dark or fall to pieces due to lack of maintenance, i think most ppl would be appeased.
- Joe Silence is not Santa
Does this mean that the sky is not falling and we should stop running around screaming GODZILLA! and pointing in the direction of FB?
- Moved to Facebook
from fftogo
also, thank you for making such a great service in the first place!
- Joe Silence is not Santa
Paul: Did you see http://www.thetechnewsblog.com/2009... & can you understand why it got so many people talking / blogging?
- Jim Connolly
I second that!!
- Kol Tregaskes
Thanks Paul.
- Santa CW™
Always nice to hear Paul talking about Friendfeed.
- ashish
Thanks Paul for the update.
- Roberto Bonini
Thanks for the update! Would like to know if there will be actual development done on FriendFeed in the future (other than bug fixes/minor updates) but I understand if you can't really talk about that too much.
- Brandon Titus
Paul: so still no answer from you as to if your 'good stuff' is being developed for FB or FF? The silence suggests it's FaceBook you're working on, or at least transferring FF into an 'add on' for Facebook?
- Jim Connolly
Kol, fb platform and openness, primarily.
- Paul Buchheit
David Recordon FTW
- Jesse Stay
i made a post here - http://www.centernetworks.com/friendf... - one interesting note - maybe FB keeps FF running nice and smooth to keep the early adopters happy as it's a great way to get new features out to them via this channel... just a thought.
- Allen Stern
Wow. I've had to eat my words before but these are the best-tasting ones yet!
- Akiva Moskovitz
from BuddyFeed
Akiva, just add salt. You know which kind :)
- Micah Wittman
I'm anxiously waiting for FF->FB Platform integration (drools...)
- Jesse Stay
These are the best words I could have expected by Paul. There is obviously a cultural difference between the two platforms and audience and I'm assuming both the former FF team and the FB team recognize that and are sensitive to the community. Thank you Paul and I hope you are feeling better....
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Allen, you're in good company on that thought - there were musings on that concept right after the buyout.
- Micah Wittman
Damn, 20+ likes within a matter of 2 minutes.
- Itachi
When the leader speaks, everyone listens.... :-)
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
I feel a few "I told you so's" coming though... :-)
- Jesse Stay
Thanks Paul. Glad you're working on maintaining/improving performance. I've definitely seen issues here. Looking forward towards your influence and changes over at the blue giant.
- Mark Krynsky
Paul - thank you for letting us know, and I do hope you feel better!
- Jennifer Dittrich
The big question though is will FriendFeed continue to add new features? There's a difference between that and it going away. (and hence my argument w/ Scoble the other day)
- Jesse Stay
Paul: Seriously weird that you're there reading this, and totally ignoring each relevant, yes no question. No one's asking you to pre announce anything - just genuinely concerned (and increasingly so) that they do NOT include developing for FF.
- Jim Connolly
Jesse +1
- Jim Connolly
I for one want to say: I'm excited!
- Jorge Escobar
Jesse: Paul answers that question - BOOM - rumour mill dies and we finally get something positive to say. Ya know what - we won;t get an answer though. He's reading this, he knows the answer, but he won't.
- Jim Connolly
Jesse: For now, FF has more features than any other platform for this type of niche. There's some catching up to do before I'm worried about new features.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
AWESOME!! Thanks for helping to quell some concerns Paul. Looking forward to what comes next, but hope that FF never dissappears also.
- Travis Koger
from iPhone
Shouldn't we be asking the facebook guys, and let Paul keep working? Or is he wearing many hats (friendfeed head honcho and facebook openess builder)?
- Mark Essel
from iPhone
Paul: I'm right, right? There's something stopping you from saying that you are no longer adding new features to what 'we' know as Friendfeed?
- Jim Connolly
Not for nothing, but I took my friendfeed embed off my tiny blog for a few weeks after the facebook buy out. There was just this empty spot on my eyesore of a website, so I put the embed back. We care because we like the connections we've made here and don't want to lose them. It's personal for us to.
- Mark Essel
from iPhone
Paul: Amazing how quickly you guys have adopted the Facebook attitude to silence. Pity.
- Jim Connolly
Paul: blink twice if you will add new features to FF. I won't tell anyone, honest.
- Edward Zwart
FWIW he did just upgrade servers. My e-mail notifications are almost real-time. Sounds to me like they're still improving the service.
- Jesse Stay
Jim: Don't blame Paul on that, it's not fair. He's only allowed to say so much at this point but I'm very satisfied on what he said.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Jesse: The questions not if they keep the servers running - we want to know if this is a dead platform.
- Jim Connolly
Jim: in Paul's defense Facebook's PR is more controlling than FriendFeed's was. I'm sure he's having to consider the effects his words will have on other people inside Facebook. But, I'm VERY HAPPY that Paul is here giving us hints as to what's coming. I wish it had happened six weeks ago so we wouldn't have lost so many people, but maybe that would happen anyway.
- Robert Scoble
Jim, there may be a few new things, but as I said, the team is mainly working on fb platform and openness, so it's unlikely that there will be any big new features of ff (except maybe one that I've been thinking about for a while...).
- Paul Buchheit
Did the Walrus think about Feed Splicing? :-)
- Robert Scoble
Paul: Finally - THAT'S what we were wondering.
- Jim Connolly
Cool Dude: Need it to have a classier forum than the parent; Parent is still good but the options here make it just a bit nicer.
- ThatDBD
Paul: Pity. At least we now know not to expect any developments or improvements. Thanks for answering the question. Whilst it confirmed my fears, it's good to know what's happening.
- Jim Connolly
Johnny said it nicely here: http://www.johnnyworthington.com/...
- Mark Essel
I have no problem with FB integration (notice my drool above). Hoping for good friend conversion tools to bring subscribers over as friends or fans on Facebook from FriendFeed. (Connect.registerUsers FTW!)
- Jesse Stay
Jim: I'd modify "any" to "many."
- Robert Scoble
As a result - Jim has left the platform.
- Jim Connolly
Jim: this is a change from last week, by the way. My sources were telling me that we weren't going to get any new features and now Paul is refuting that and saying we might get one new feature here.
- Robert Scoble
I'm still drooling - anyone have a towel?
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: I'll buy you a virtual one over on Ning.
- Robert Scoble
personally, i would be happy just to have FF not fall apart and die. given the post-acquisition situation, anything beyond that is gravy!
- Joe Silence is not Santa
Robert, I heard Ning is dead - care to send me one on Facebook? ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Robert, think of it as 20% time. If there's a feature I want, I'll just add it :)
- Paul Buchheit
Thank you for the clarification, Paul, and hope you are feeling better.
- WorldofHiglet
a communication channel that will be around and getting improved no matter what happens, our blogs :D I'll be commenting on yours Jim. 20%, that's a helluva light better than 0%, that's actually much more than I expected. Could we crowd source funding to buy you more %?
- Mark Essel
Even if there no new features in Friendfeed, I am happy with Friendfeed just staying on.
- ashish
how many users are there on friendfeed is there any chance we could buy it out (and get a full time dev staff back)? This platform rules, the dev team is incredible (albeit on facebook stuff now).
- Mark Essel
Paul, if you wanted me to bake you some cookies, all you had to do was ask, GEEZ.
- Derrick
Question: how many facebook bucks do we have to buy in total to get Paul and team working on friendfeed more of the time (100% ;)
- Mark Essel
Twitter doesn't accept cupcakes any more (just check Foursquare when at their offices). How about FriendFeed? :-)
- Jesse Stay
Mark, I'm okay with better Facebook integration. There's a lot of power in that (hence my drooling).
- Jesse Stay
I've got mixed feelings Jesse. I have friends on facebook. Then I have people that get excited by the same stuff that I do on friendfeed
- Mark Essel
Mark, I'm really hoping it ends up the best of both worlds - that would be really cool
- Jesse Stay
im going back to efnet - i got a bus for 7pm - anyone want on? :-P
- Allen Stern
I don't think you can mix the two sites at all. This has been repeated over and over. FriendFeed's technology might be portable, the concept, no.
- Jorge Escobar
Is it too late to do something about it. If it's a question of funds, can't we raise some? I mean this is the best communication platform I've come across yet. Facebook could be, if they just handed over the reigns to Paul, but its unlikely that sort of shift could happen.
- Mark Essel
Is the user perceived need of a full time devoted dev staff a fallacy?
- Mark Essel
I think you could make the case that some sites and services can in fact be "done" at some point, and simply require resources to keep them up and running.
- Ken Sheppardson
Thanks, Paul.
- Josh Haley
Ken: That's a potential advantage of turnkey application-level hosting such as App Engine: the resources to keep them up and running are almost entirely outsourced. ~All costs are variable costs, monetization improves over time, variable costs decline over time, so services that are "done" can literally just coast.
- Daniel Dulitz
They could open up something like friendfeed. Distributed social networks, with many servers would make search more challenging (search like status could help). The Internet keeps on chugging, it's a distributed information network that's been alive for many years. Our social networks should live, as does the underlying Internet.
- Mark Essel
Nice Daniel, I've been having fun playing around there (frankensearch.appspot.com). I'm using it to get to learn a little more about scala and lift now.
- Mark Essel
might be a full-time job times 2 or 3 for any fresh devs - safe to say Paul's got a bit of a head-start which changes that equation significantly! .... Also maybe almost as important is simply keeping spammers in check - that makes the difference between a ghost town vs the happy place here we want to keep coming back to enjoy ...
- Dan Freeman
Yes, this helps a lot. Thank you, Paul. We were beginning to fight amongst ourselves over these things.
- Kamilah Gill
I bet a good contextual advertising box off to the side could generate 35-50million dollars in 6 months with a user base of 1 million people. The assumption is that the average user spends 100-200 bucks on the site making purchases they'd normally make anyway and the affiliate percentage goes to the social host.
- Mark Essel
Friendfeed's health needn't be measured by the team's willingness to add new features. Shovels haven't changed in hundreds of years, but nobody is running around saying shovels are dying. A shovel is a great tool --a simple one, at that. If anything, I'd take away features on FF, but that's just me. Thanks for jumping in, Paul.
- Chris Baskind
Chris: the problem is that a shovel doesn't get more utility the more people that use it. FriendFeed does.
- Robert Scoble
I think the problem is that some people feel extra messianic some days (which is perfectly okay), and then refuse to see/believe/accept when others don't feel the same way AND point it out. The refusing part is not really okay, I guess.
- Michael Bravo
Thanks for these reassuring words Paul. Have been working hard to get more Flickr users over here after the recent rash of censorship there. Friendfeed's TOS and lack of censorship is a breath of fresh air compared to Flickr.
- Thomas Hawk
I wouldn't say lack of censorship, but community moderated filters. ;)
- Santa CW™
I think you're unnecessarily complicating the discussion by adding new vocabulary, Robert. Now you're talking scale, not features. A product needn't expand its feature set to remain useful. Feature creep is the devil, anyway. ;-)
- Chris Baskind
You can’t predict what the future of technology will bring; so trying is a fool’s game. You can only adapt to the new realities as best you can. Paul's word is that it is still worth the time to invest in FF the tool. The tool may stay in this form but that's still a better design for me than Twitter. If FF is a shovel, Twitter is a spoon feature-wise. Audience volume-wise, it is the reverse.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
"Feature creep is the devil." truer words!
- Joe Silence is not Santa
Now this makes me feel hopeful!:)
- Patrik Johansson
Ok here's an example of what the social media + contextual ads could like like (sorry can't embed iframe twitter they go full screen so I showed it with friendfeed). But the idea is clear: http://victusmedia.com/social-... This works by sending your tweet stream to zemanta, and then does some backend stuff (which we're working on improving) to get relevant ads from amazon
- Mark Essel
I've been rough on you guys in some comments around, but I'm VERY encouraged to see that you guys see a future for FF. Thanks for shining some light, Paul.
- Scott of Two Countries
Clarification is appreciated.
- DGentry
A respectable amount of information. Thank you.
- Matthew DeVries
Chris: Pownce had more "features" than Twitter did, yet it died. So did other aggregators like Jaiku. It's not "features" that matter in social software. Well, at least not completely. It's a combination of features with crowds that matter. If the crowds leave FriendFeed has a lot less utility to everyone than if they flow in. Look at this item here. Why is it interesting? Because there's people here talking about it.
- Robert Scoble
take your time PB Bear take your time
- Thomas Power
This is definitely more of the answer we were looking for. Thanks, Paul.
- Alex Scoble
Thank you
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
All I can say is "thank you" for letting us know what's going on. I'm glad to hear FF will be around for the foreseeable future. :-) LONG LIVE FRIENDFEED!
- Jason Huebel
yea - happy happy....
- Chris Jackson
I can't find any wave that is even remotely comparable with friendfeed's conversation, if you found one will you invite me? (muzzle at googlewave)
- Emme Ci
Great news, I await the new functions eagerly
- Mo Kargas
looks like good news ...
- johnpiercy
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the best thing I've seen ALL day!! woo hoo!! Thanks Paul :) {{{ HUG }}}
- Susan Beebe
Just a few words of assurance go a long way, Paul. Thank you for finally giving us something more solid to stand on. It's been frustrating for a lot of us waiting for the other shoe to drop and this news makes it much easier to keep investing time in FriendFeed. Please don't be shy about reaffirming that it's not going away on a regular basis because it's always good to hear.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
I will say it for the least time! Friendfeed kicks ass :). The rest who is saying friendfeed is dying. please SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!
- alfred westerveld
Good to read.
- Grant Bierman
"As a result - Jim has left the platform. - Jim Connolly" - Was this guy ever on the platform?! A quick glance at his most recent posts [first page] show pretty much 100% of posts made from other platforms. Cut him and his blood runs blue. Twitter blue :)
- 1x29
IF you glance over the Right Wing guys publications-there is some serious Terrorism encouragement from those sociopaths. This looked like a real strong example of what they are encouraging their followers to do??? Been saying we need to pay attention they are respectable foes to intelligence and their agenda is to win at all costs. Dudes they are great foes, need to,got to, have to pay attention to what they are doing. Peace love your neighbors dudes.
- ThatDBD
@ThatDBD I think you're responding to the wrong thread...
- Fa La La La Lindsay
still curious, but understand
- Kim Landwehr
It's fascinating that so many people seem worried about new features. Until recently Twitter added almost no features at all and yet it continued to grow in popularity. FriendFeed's recent slump is all about perception, not tech.
- Eoghann Irving
Exactly Eoghann.
- Itachi
these conversations take too much time for narcisists with tight schedules (stars). Publicity skyrocketed Twitter to the limelight. Friendfeeds champions are tech geeks, and folks that love chatting and sharing. There aren't many of us though. Give us time, or let us own the platform with a public ipo /buyin from facebook. Free friendfeed!
- Mark Essel
from iPhone
Looks like it's official then: FriendFeed lives! On new servers, even! (At least for now...)
- Dennis Jernberg
Hoorah!
- Ron Bailey
Very glad to hear it!!
- Rosalinda Mojarro
word!
- Dylan Casey
This is great news! Thanks, Paul, for the update, and if you get a hankering for a feature, great! I'm fine with the tech being your personal sandbox in exchange for keeping the service alive. Robert, I hope this means we'll see more of you and your family - and hear from the ones who have mastered the art of rolling over. Johnny, thanks for having the courage to ask the hard questions (and Louis for helping you frame the issues.) wow - life feels good again!
- MaryB, BrandingBroadOfFF
from iPhone
This is brilliant news from Paul! Now can we put this FriendFeed is dying business to rest please? It's a self fullfilling prophecy because by saying FF is dying, folks begin leaving, causing a downward spiral which would then cause it to come true!
- technogran
Wan't it to stay? Then begin spreading the word! Get others to use it! At the moment its not mainstream so encourage ordinary users to use FF! The more popular it becomes the less likely it is to fold.
- technogran
Yes :) Paul . Thanks. we love ff :)
- sunipeyk
Questions? No just enjoy it.
- ★ Soner Gönül
technogran: sorry, today you see what's going on. Bing? Displays your Facebook and Twitter tweets. Google? Twitter. Where's FriendFeed in this equation? Now do you get why FriendFeed is destined to be a tiny niche player and why the real action is on Facebook?
- Robert Scoble
Good news :)
- Maryam Ardakani
from FreshFeed
Is not FF that is going somewhere else (?). Is its user base.
- Claudio Cicali ♋
Good to know.
- orionstarr
from iPhone
Robert, if FF gives me what I'm looking for, why do I care where "the real action" is? If FF serves its niche well, what's the downside?
- Scott of Two Countries
Robert, do you mean that Google doesn't index Friendfeed posts? Friendfeed is the first site that comes up if you search for my name.
- Victor Ganata
Excellent point Victor - but FF only imports a small % of twitter's posts. Ergo Google is still not getting Twitter.
- Roberto Bonini
@Scobleizer - this item is not interesting because of the conversation. it's interesting because of who it's from, and what he said. The fact that there's a conversation around it and that conversation is easy to find and read is a bonus (a feature) that sets this service head and shoulders above others (IMHO). There's really not much interesting in the comments here, if you ask me. You could get rid of all the comments that aren't Paul's and the value of the entry doesn't diminish that much.
- Chris Heath
That isn't to say that conversations around items aren't ever useful or valuable (or interesting as robert says)... but in this case i would say it's who it's from and what he said.
- Chris Heath
Chris: you nailed, in a single paragraph, why Twitter is winning. You now can choose who shows up on your screen and under what context. Well, I can because I have list support. Everyone else will get that next month. Victor: Roberto is right. I barely see ANY of the good stuff I see on Twitter come over here. Well, it comes here because of my favorites feed, but that isn't in nearly as useful a form as it is over at http://www.twitter.com/scoblei...
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you keep saying that's the reason Twitter's winning - I can do that in Facebook and FriendFeed as well.
- Jesse Stay
Well, the problem is that Google doesn't seem to index tweets as well as it indexes Friendfeed posts. And Google has never been able go inside Facebook's walled garden. Hopefully that will change.
- Victor Ganata
(and I have been able to for the last year or so)
- Jesse Stay
Victor, that changed today - see ReadWriteWeb's post. Facebook is opening up public status messages to search engines now.
- Jesse Stay
Why is Twitter/Facebook/FriendFeed a zero sum game? I use both Twitter and FriendFeed a lot - they have different strengths - and they feed into each other. Facebook I use less, but that's a personal issue because I simply like it less. Why does there have to be a winner? And +1 Scott, if I'm in the niche market that FF is serving and I'm happy with it, why should I care if "the real action" is on Facebook? If that's the case, I'll take FF's "fake action," thank you very much.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Good point Jandy
- sunipeyk
Paul: Thank you for letting us know status as much as you are able. The fact that you took time to write anything says a lot. So thank you for that. And thank you for FriendFeed in general. It truly does rock. Have a great day.
- Morgan Haley
Thank you.
- amygeek
Why don't you just give us all Facebook accounts for the one's that don't have them and be done with it. But the Turbocharged FF/FB accounts!!
- Gene Williams
@Gene, sorry, you'll have to wait for a FB invite like everyone else!
- Andrew C
@Andrew Oh that sucks, I'm still waiting for my Facebook invite. Do you have one to spare?
- Patrik Johansson
FF team needs 20% time at FB to keep inventing the next.
- Christopher Galtenberg
This is great to hear, it would be bad that a major peice of my microblogging arogration just died off.
- denzuko
Bump for clarification and Happy Birthday Paul!
- Charlie Anzman
There was a lot of chatter about the future of FriendFeed this weekend. The short answer is that the team is working on a couple of longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world. Transformation is not the end. Consider this the chrysalis stage -- if all goes well, a beautiful butterfly will emerge :)
Alfredo, Fabrizio, david beckwith and 243 other people liked this
What is transforming... FriendFeed, or the idea of FriendFeed?
- Christopher Galtenberg
Thanks for the update, Paul!
- Anne Bouey
THANK YOU!
- teh Dork Knight aka Kenny
Fabulous News :)
- Susan Beebe
Noticed the "leaked" Facebook UI screenshots and the groups blog post today, and both seem FriendFeed inspired: nice to see Facebook trying to bring the stuff we like about FriendFeed to a larger audience.
- Mark Trapp
To Robert Scoble: I told you so ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Sounds like they're adding some of FF's features to FaceBook. yay
- Chrimmus Tad
from fftogo
Mark - got link?
- Susan Beebe
Thanks Paul :)
- ashish
Devil is in the details: "couple of longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" == Facebook projects with FriendFeed-like elements == no work on FriendFeed itself.
- EricaJoy
Paul, FriendFeed rocks as Gmail does ;)
- Orlando Pozo
Thanks for the update, the more you communicate, the less we have to speculate.
- Peter Hoffmann
The fact that these improvements are coming to Facebook and not friendfeed will not sway those who like friendfeed but dislike Facebook.
- Alex Scoble
Thank you Paul for bringing "FriendFeed goodness to the larger world" -- THAT sounds awesome!!
- Susan Beebe
integration with facebook?
- Rocco Galluzzo
@Alex Scoble: That's true
- Jorge Escobar
I hope out of the chrysalis emerges an infested Kerrigan. That'd be awesome http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki...
- Ivan Kirigin
Thanks Mark, much appreciated... I'll check those out
- Susan Beebe
+1 Ivan :)
- Benjamin Golub
But we knew this was the deal the moment the full details of the purchase of friendfeed by Facebook became public.
- Alex Scoble
Yeah, I don't give a crap about Facebook. I want to know about FriendFeed.
- Rochelle
Is it the interface people dislike about Facebook or the people they're friends with on Facebook? I can imagine being able to import all your subscribers from FriendFeed and have them in a separate group that doesn't interact with other groups you may have on Facebook.
- Cristo
sadly, no one with any power seems to care about FF anymore.
- Joe Silence is not Santa
I'm glad to hear this. I prefer FriendFeed to Facebook any day of the week.
- Nathan Clayton
And the answer for me would be some of both. I have real life friends and family that I don't necessarily want to get into the same discussions with as I do with people here.
- Cristo
And there's your answer, Rochelle. friendwho? friendwhat now? Oh, you mean Facebook! (No I mean friendfeed) friendwho? (rinse, lather, repeat)
- Alex Scoble
there are some ui differences (and i tend to prefer friendfeed in those cases) but i have friended quite a few FF people in FB and the experience is remarkably similar in many ways.
- Jason Wehmhoener
Another big difference is I don't think you get the same FOAF interaction on Facebook as on FriendFeed.
- Cristo
yep
- Jason Wehmhoener
I hope my FaceBook peeps are ready for the FriendFeed firehose ... past experience would say that they're in for a shock.
- Crutis
Thanks for the transparency on the Friendfeed "ghost town" matter Paul. Much appreciated.
- Alex Knight
Thanks Paul... bring the special sauce to Facebook: http://blogs.zdnet.com/weblife...
- Andrew
I like the "chrysalis stage" analogy - sounds cool.... goes an looks for FF goodness butterfly!
- Susan Beebe
Good to know that FriendFeed still has some fight left; hope that translates into a viable and sustainable platform/utility for the masses (though I quite enjoy the close-knit, uber-geek community that it's become).
- Christian
I don't like the chrysalis analogy. The butterfly emerges from the chrysalis and buggers off leaving the shell. Of course, it might then also get eaten by a bird. Tweet, tweet.
- Mark H
Mark LOL nice, ... haha
- Susan Beebe
Note that he didn't say that FriendFeed.com was going away, only that they're diverted to bringing it to a much larger audience
- Jesse Stay
The problem is Scoble (Robert) and MG both just sent half of FriendFeed away so most of those that would benefit from this announcement won't even see it.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, I didn't get that from Paul's comment. I read that some of the friendfeed ideas will be going into FB. I like that idea, but I still prefer FF to FB because of the different conversations here that I don't have with friends and family.
- Travis Koger
from iPhone
Yeah, Paul's statement won't help friendfeed. This will just either give people more reason to go to Facebook or find another service entirely.
- Alex Scoble
What Alex and Rochelle said. This sounds like a "we're bringing FF to Facebook" announcement, and I don't give a damn about Facebook. I want to know what's happening HERE. And Cristo, both, but more the interface. I care about the friends I've made here, and I'm connected with many of them now on Facebook as well, but I prefer to interact with them here, because I like it better.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Travis, he didn't say that - you read that, but he didn't say that. I'm willing to bet FriendFeed.com will not go away.
- Jesse Stay
As much as I agree about Scoble and MG driving people away, they have also effectively flush out some comment from the FF team.
- Travis Koger
from iPhone
Travis, there are better ways of getting the FF team to comment
- Jesse Stay
:( I quite liked the caterpillar.
- Nick Lothian
I think it's the opposite, the butterfly is becoming this crawling caterpillar :)
- Jorge Escobar
Oh I don't think FF will go away, and damn will hope it doesn't either!
- Travis Koger
from iPhone
What I do see is more Facebook integrated into the FriendFeed environment - I think that's a good thing
- Jesse Stay
The critical difference between Facebook and FriendFeed is the social model. With Facebook as it is today, you need to be mutual friends to see each others content. There is a "fan page" model but it is oriented toward "publishing/celebrity" rather than information sharing. FriendFeed has an asymmetric model like Twitter, where you can easily discover someone's content without any "friend" gesture whatsoever, and you can follow without friending. This makes the converation more discoverable, and useful..
- Adina Levin
Agree Adina.
- Travis Koger
from iPhone
If the integration is bringing public/asymmetric to Facebook, then it will be very useful indeed. If the integration is to add FriendFeed-style service integration into the symmetric/private Facebook model, it will be much less useful - it's more of the same - I'll be able to more easily share updates from youtube or last.fm or delicious to my friend network, but be unable to discover new people and infomation.
- Adina Levin
Adina: And unless Facebook goes radically toward that model, it won't suffice for me. I could not care less about their upcoming redesigns.
- Christopher A Carr
@Jesse - I can't see any sign that they are working on FriendFeed at all. All the indications are that the FF team is now working on Facebook, and only Facebook. That's great for Facebook, and I'm sure they will do wonderful work there. But don't delude yourself that FriendFeed is going to get anything more than critical fixes, and maybe the occasional thing done in someone's spare time.
- Nick Lothian
Butterflies look totally different than caterpillars and they also fly away
- Melanie Reed
Crickets chirping... is this site alive?? :)
- Christopher Galtenberg
+100 Adina. The things I like best about FriendFeed (easy content/people discovery, FoaF, asymmetrical following and being followed) are completely opposite to Facebook's core model. That's why as much as people keep talking about Facebook adding FF-like features, I don't see the REAL FF core features making it over, because the mindset is different.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I don't see this announcement as anything new, or as reassuring. We knew from the time of the acquisition that there would be would be some movement of FF capabilities into FB. The real question is whether this means absorption of FF into FB or attracting the FB user base into FF. The comment about "bring[ing] FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" still leaves that question open.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
+1 everything Alex Scoble has said. Friendwhat? What's a feed? Who uses RSS anymore? We've got PubSubWTFOMGBBQ now!
- Mr. Gunn
Agree with Jandy on +100 Adina.
- Amy℠
Also, I agree with Jandy and Adina's comments.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
Nick, Paul just said they're working on other projects right now. That still doesn't mean FriendFeed is going away. I'm not deluding myself at all. I'm telling everyone else they're deluding themselves by assuming it's going away. All the FriendFeed team is still using FriendFeed, and Paul just tried to give us comfort not to worry. For some reason we all don't want to believe him. It's actually kind of amusing.
- Jesse Stay
I wonder what the powers that be mean by "FriendFeedy goodness"? Is it understood what WE like about it vs. FB?
- Amy℠
Paul - Wishing you all the best as you tend your new butterfly garden :) I'll be here to enjoy them!
- Susan Beebe
Jesse: "For some reason we all don't want to believe him." <-- Don't want to believe what? He didn't really say anything.
- Christopher A Carr
This is not the news that Friendfeed fans were looking for.
- Raphael, Raphael
The issue isn't belief that they are going to do something. The question is what they are going to do, and whether that will continue the core value of FriendFeed, which is not just information aggregation but discoverability.
- Adina Levin
I know more about the "Last Days" and heaven than I know about what's going to happen to FriendFeed as we have come to know it than was given in your rather cryptic answer, Paul. :) And while that may not be a fair comparison (God actually gave details and signs), there is something definitely not forthcoming about your response. A person usually withholds details that affect another...
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- Melanie Reed
Melanie, in other words, Paul works for a technology company in Silicon Valley that doesn't disclose future features, products, and services until they are ready.
- Cristo
Hopefully this helps to quiet all of the "friendfeed is dying" talk. Because this thread proves ff is alive and well.
- Garin Kilpatrick
@Jesse - I read it differently to you. To me, Paul is saying "We are taking what we were working towards on FriendFeed, and trying to bring that goodness to a bigger audience". No one is claiming they are going to shut down FF.
- Nick Lothian
@Jesse - Want to make a bet on the number of new features added to FF before the end of the year?
- Nick Lothian
Cristo, to deliver some straightforward talk is not about giving away company details. If you have a product that is original and stands on its own, you don't need to refer to it as a "butterfly". Many companies even promote something new and upcoming especially to their loyal user base. It gives a signal. A proper one. It tells your users and future users enough so that they can make an informed decision about what they want to do instead of keeping them on tenderhooks
- Melanie Reed
"the chrysalis stage in most butterflies is one in which there is little movement" (via wikipedia) So if you follow that metaphor then eventually FriendFeed will go through a metamorphosis -- that means it's not dead... really how hard can it be to get what he's saying?
- Chris Heath
Its pretty hard :) The burning question is if they are putting FF goodness in to the walled gardens that are Facebook or are they bringing FF openness to FB too. I think the people here want the open forums that are FF not the closed ones that are FB. If FB is going hybrid with both walled gardens and open forums that would be OK too. People on FF want open forums... like Twitter and FF... without the crude interface that is Twitter and without the uncertainty that is FF now.
- Ed Millard
Facebook is gonna have to rip off much of the privacy to maximize their product in the real-time web world. I am going to assume FF goodness is going to be applied to FB :) *crosses fingers*
- Susan Beebe
Just a thought... why does "longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" JUST mean facebook.com? What I get from this is that they are working on a range of things, maybe bringing the FriendFeed sauce to a range of sites, powered by the Facebook back end. Who knows what that means. A FriendFeed service powered by FacebookConnect? Also to......
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- Johnny Worthington
LMFAO. Johnny++
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
FB needs to leave the privacy for the walled garden and the inner circle. Their current user base likes that. They just need a second feed that is an open forum and you can talk there without it bleeding in to your inner circle feed.
- Ed Millard
Seems like the inner circle is breaking down some now, what with parents and other relatives friending teenagers. I'm guessing the information posted on the walls these days is not as private. Is there a way on FriendFeed to limit what on your wall can be seen by particular people and groups?
- Cristo
Yes, but blocking doesn't work so well since you can just use Chrome's Incognito mode to get around it.
- Alex Scoble
Translation: if you haven't switche to Facebook yet, you better do it now so you can get a good vanity URL.
- David Chartier
from iPhone
I don't know what all the fuss is about. But could we have the long answer too, please?
- Laura Norvig
Although I'm interested, FB != FF. I don't see how the two mix in a way that makes me feel otherwise. Mixing audiences is not a good thing for me (with a few exceptions) and I know others share the same thought.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Did anyone notice that Robert Scoble didn't comment on this thread? What does this mean? Does it mean Robert Scoble won't exist soon? He must be working on a Monday afternoon, no? ;)
- Cristo
Paul, will FF be here in 1 year, 5 years?
- Robert Higgins
Robert, will you and I be alive in 5 years?
- Cristo
Thanks for the update Paul..
- Chris Myles
Cristo I am funking nobody, I would like Paul to quantify his post. Simple. Will FF be here in 1 year? Will FF be here in 5 years?
- Robert Higgins
Robert, I was trying to make the point that he might not know and can't predict what will happen over time.
- Cristo
IMO friendfeed shoud attract more general audience... Facebook and twitter are having more general users. Most of the FF users are tech bloggers or those who needs aggregation services... I dont know it's just my feeling or not . but this is my impression on FF. but it's great service.. the features are too good... but we will roam were we meet our friends... thats most of the people are into twitter and FB.
- Sarath
Sarath, is there a place you can get away from tech bloggers? :)
- Cristo
Ohhhh a perrrttty butterfly, I'm moist with anticipation.
- sofarsoShawn
Glad to hear it, Paul.
- WorldofHiglet
Cristo: i almost made the same observation an hour or two ago when i first read through this posting and its comments. I was skimming and kept seeing alex, alex, alex... and thinking to myself... where's Robert!?!
- Chris Heath
Great news. Thanks! friendfeed team. :D
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
@Sarath - I have a lot more in common with the people I've met here on FriendFeed than FB or Twitter. Twitter is too hard to search, and FB (and Twitter to a good extent) is driven by the people you know in RL (and unfortunately I don't have nearly as much in common in RL with my family, co-workers and acquaintences as I do with people scattered all over the world who I have met on FF)....
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- Fa La La La Lindsay
I think that in his cryptic statement he means, and a lot of people here agree with me, that more Facebook's going to get more FriendFeedy. Which doesn't mean that FF still isn't dead or doomed. After all, he works for Facebook now. FriendFeed=open forum, Facebook=walled garden, totally opposite master metaphors; but I don't think Zuckerberg gets it, and FF belongs to Zuckerberg now. So this is really about FB; FF's still in limbo. Still, some FF people friended me at FB, and I put them in a special list.
- Dennis Jernberg
@FF-team keep on rocking :). BTW I also think it's really cool you guys open-sourced tornado.
- alfred westerveld
+1 what alfred said, and good to hear words like "longer-term" & "beautiful" coming straight from The Walrus - keep that vision strong. Hope all goes well for FF team doing some good re-inventing the Octopus Garden of FB - seems you've got your work cut out for you there! It would be so nice if any way to keep a "simple & pure" form of FriendFeed alive (maintained and developed - more open source?) for us to enjoy, but no worries .... you've simultaneously raised the bar and paved the way for the rest!
- Dan Freeman
Good luck with the development Paul! Hopefully Zuck has some positive insight.
- Garin Kilpatrick
I like butterflies.
- Harold Cabezas
Paul: If someone offered me a bag of money to do what you guys did, I would have done exactly the same (probably a lot faster too). However, it would be nice if you spent an hour answering some of the questions here. It might also give people like me a little more faith, in what used to be your primary project; Friendfeed. You made the best platform on the planet - why not use it to let us know what the heck's going on?
- Jim Connolly
I'm assuming that Facebook wants to keep their roadmap quiet. I respect that but leaving you community in the dark for a brand that the applications stand for community building is rather ironic.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
SUPER!! I don't Blame ya 1 Darn bit fer Dumpin' FacePOOP Paul!! ;PPP Wait FacePOOP is the Maggot Stage!! ;))
- Billy Warhol
If I can still have all my friends that I have here on friendfeed and share things with them the exact same way, I don't care what "www" address I have to type in to get it. I just hope i don't have to give up any of FF's awesome features! Thanks for the update Paul!
- David Cook
The problem is I don't know whether to wrote an app on your API or not because i'm not sure whether it will all be dropped in the "transformation". Imagine speding late nights and weekends coding something up only for it to be dropped suddenly. Need a decent long term picture. Looking at Cliqset.
- Steven Livingstone-Pérez
Good point Steven - and one of the reasons many of us are spending so little time developing our networks here.
- Jim Connolly
waiting....
- ffcode
ffcode: Good luck with that ;-)
- Jim Connolly
So the changes are at Facebook not FriendFeed, Paul?
- Kol Tregaskes
And good luck to all of your team
- Ozkan Altuner
from iPhone
This is a truly disappointing/concerning post and I think it would have been much better to hold comment until something more tangible could be discussed. Thanks for adding to the confusion/drama Paul.
- Nicholas Kreidberg
yemezler
- MobilAdam
I do care about what happens next, but this is the best news of the day nonetheless ! thanks for giving us updates at last ! and I do hope FF will awaken again ! such a great tool, but letdown since the announcement of the buyback by FB
- laetSgo
will I see this post in my "best of week" email from FF?
- Kirill Bolgarov
If Facebook is going to get fixed, please remember that it needs fixing politically, not just technically. It needs to give people the option to open their data to Google - for instance. A walled garden where the walls are fixed in place sucks.
- Tim Tyler
@Paul, or perhaps an Alien will erupt forth from its stomach? (kidding, kidding!)
- j1m
Just got the 'you may have forgotten to attach your attachment' warning from Gmail. I went through the email scanning for the word 'attach' to see what set off the false positive, then when I found it I discovered that I *did* forget to attach an item. Thank you for being smarter than me, Gmail. Apparently I'm still in beta.
wchs, ffcode, Dan Hsiao and 22 other people liked this
the programmer in you.. lookin' for false positives that aren't there ;)
- Tim Hoeck
:)
- Huseyin Savas
bit.ly vs. tr.im
Nicholas James, Irina Yakhneeva, Iván Abrego and 23 other people liked this
whats your point?
- Mark
can you interpret this via the medium of expressive dance? ;)
- alphaxion
Mark: earlier this year Twitter "choose" Bit.ly over other URL shorteners and that caused Bitly's market share to zooooooom up. Is this good for a platform vendor to do?
- Robert Scoble
Oh right. How do these URL services make any money?
- Mark
Twitter had to make some sort of choice. Better bit.ly than tinyurl. I understand why they did it too, public stats.
- Aram Zucker-Scharff
from twhirl
Mark: today? They don't, they are in audience acquisition mode. TOmorrow? I can think of at least three ways these things can make money. Remember Flickr? In the early days they didn't make money either. Now they charge me to get access to my own photos. Seriously. Are we all that unimaginative that we can't think of at least three ways that these things will make money? Really?
- Robert Scoble
twitter effect :)
- Oğuz Serdar
Flickr charges you to store your photos. With that comes the access. Monetizing something like a url shortening service is a bit more problematic. Unlike Flickr you wouldn't actually be buying anything tangible. Just the ability to shorten a URL and how crucial is that.
- Gilbert Harding
"There is no way for us to monetize URL shortening -- users won't pay for it" -- TR.IM Founder. Guess he can't think how it would make money without pissing off users either :)
- Mark
Mark: translation: I can only do interstitial ads on URL shorteners but those aren't viable unless you get to monopoly marketshare. Which Bit.ly just got.
- Robert Scoble
I was just wondering what the business model is for URL shorteners. Of course, its advertising.
- Dan
Selling trending data is also possible. The URL shortener gets a good look at what is popular, in real-time.
- DGentry
oooo very clever, wonder why they didnt think of these
- Mark
Where's the trend fot Spedr?
- Smeerch
I agree with Robert and I said as much in my recent post. The reasons they shut down seem a little weak to me. You may not be able to make people pay just to shorten URL's but you can always use what you have to leverage something profitable. It just takes imagination.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
well yeah but they would have to pump money into it no doubt to do that, and it sounds like there is no money to be raised in the URL shortening area with the way they say they could not even sell the business for a nominal (small) fee.
- Mark
Wow very nice. Now a new shortening service is up and running http://zxc9.com
- vinoth
Persuasive Web Design, Part 2: More Usable Is Not Always More Effective - VKI Studios Blog - http://blog.vkistudios.com/index...
Marc Dong liked this
Interesting write-up on testing that first didn't show improvement, but then did after they tweaked a 2nd time.
- Joshua Porter
Should Facebook Remove Subject Lines from Messages? - http://mashable.com/2009...
Nicholas James, Jason A. Samfield, Diego Barros and 72 other people liked this
I tried to remove the subject in Gmail, but people revolted. I really like that FriendFeed (and Twitter) don't have a subject -- it's just a message.
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
If there's no subject line, how will I know to ignore the message?
- pea
How do you know on FriendFeed?
- Paul Buchheit
I think email would be better if they removed the body instead of the subject.
- Jim Norris
On FF, there's a high assumption that the message I'll get is wanted because only people I sub to can message me. That's not the case with email. Sorry, you were talking about FB. Got derailed by the Gmail comment. I'd be okay with no Subject line in FB messages.
- pea
well, I can guess what's spam on gmail by the subject line. Since I never got spam on facebook's inbox... that could take things right to the point.
- Caio
Friendfeed removes the body from most messages, so you have to do the 'write a comment on your own message' trick to put it in
- Kevin Marks
That's a good point Kevin, a lot of people treat the first comment by the author as the subject line.
- Eric Florenzano
Which makes the feed API annoying for longform stuff
- Kevin Marks
People are using "pseudo tagging" on FF with the [something] syntax just to provide the "context" for their message. So, yeah, title is here to stay (where used).
- Claudio Cicali ♋
I tend to delete emails with no subject lines without reading them, since it's usually just one of my friends or family forwarding me some crap (Note: I have filters to remove Re: and Fwd: and similar additions to subject lines). So in that sense, subject lines are necessary if you want me to read what you have to say. I would extend this same concept to the Facebook Inbox as well:...
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- Otto
Hmm.. On a related note, I should just setup an auto-responder for no-subject-line emails. Tell people "no subject, no delivery", and also warn them not to send me their forward spam. Might work.
- Otto
summarize, FTW!
- Claudio Cicali ♋
+1 for Otto's comment.
- Curtiss Grymala
Twitter has just the subject line, no body. ;)
- Amit Patel
It's the other way around Amit, which is why Twitter is better than Atom/RSS (RSS has titles, Twitter is just short messages). See http://friendfeed.com/paul... for an example.
- Paul Buchheit
"Twitter is better than Atom/RSS"?!? - splutters!
- Tim Tyler
it is very useless btw you also have to change the share box to old way.. It is very difficukt when you want to share a message to another user not to your profile
- Atif UNALDI
Instead of no subject, i often send email with no body, or the same in both. only use body when I need long form.
- David Stratton
Twitter and ff exclude the long-form use case. For email, subject lines should at least be an option. I don't use fb enough to comment on their messaging.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
No subject does totally work. Sometimes I really stuck trying to fill Subj form. Just have no idea how to summarize words like ”How d'ya do”. What's the subject here? No fkcng subj needed, for real.
- Кто это тут у нас
Bruce, the solution is to simply make the "subject" a part of the body, so that there is a smooth transition.
- Paul Buchheit
If there's one general problem I have with Gmail, it's the institutional attitude that they know what's best for the user. e.g. "You don't need to be able to sort by columns." I'm thankful they didn't let you dump the subject, Paul.
- Ken Sheppardson
How do you get users to do that? People don't naturally start long-form messages with concise summaries. Not that a subject line nails this problem, but at least you can prompt the user if it's blank.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
People don't write concise summaries anyway Bruce :). Ken, sorting by something other than date in nonsensical in a conversational context.
- Paul Buchheit
Facebook having a proprietary system that mostly competes with email, but is mostly incompatible with it is kind-of feeble.
- Tim Tyler
Paul: Perhaps, but people aren't always operating in a "conversational context" when they're dealing with email. For something as flexible as email, or messaging systems of any sort, I find it annoying when the system tries to dictate what my workflow and thought processes should look like.
- Ken Sheppardson
Maybe it's a dying use case, but subjects are really great for automated messages that are guaranteed to have a useful subject line. I can scroll through server notices, security advisories, and so on quickly and download the full message if I need to know more. The fact that you can download just the subject line (or rather, the email header) before downloading the entire email is still pretty useful to me.
- Mark Trapp
Ken, I'm referring to the UI. For example, sorting by sender doesn't make sense when there are multiple senders, as is the case in a conversational ui. The ui was designed to solve use-cases, not fill feature checkboxes.
- Paul Buchheit
Also, Gmail wasn't meant to cover all possible use cases. I think it's better to have a product that's very good for many people than mediocre for all people. It has open interfaces (such as IMAP) so that it's easy to use other clients.
- Paul Buchheit
I agree 100% with Ken. I almost always sort my e-mails by date, then subject (in Evolution, I can actually group them by thread, which is really nice). If I just kept all of my e-mails sorted strictly by date and none of them had subjects, I would have no idea which ones were related to each other. It's completely counter-intuitive to remove the subject line from an e-mail. Further,...
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- Curtiss Grymala
It's not meant to cover all use cases, but it's meant to be interoperable, right? If email originating from Gmail is not supplying subject lines (because they're hidden/downplayed/discouraged), but everything else relies on subject lines (like IMAP clients) to weed through the email list, the spirit of interoperability seems to be violated.
- Mark Trapp
I get that, Paul (re use cases vs features) and was just about to mention that I'm thankful for IMAP support, so I can use Thunderbird, Outlook, etc for those instances where my workflow calls for sorting by size; sorting a set of messages with well-formed subjects by subject; using sorting as a quick, visual proxy for search, etc.
- Ken Sheppardson
Mark, I didn't say that it wouldn't supply a subject line :)
- Paul Buchheit
What would it be? The first n bytes of the message? I guess that could work.
- Mark Trapp
i rarely use the subject line in my email
- andy brudtkuhl
yes
- Christopher Harris
it doesnt mean it is the best way if you use something in a way for a long time. i think no subject for emails is a good approach if you really think on it. it is the change scares us.
- Eren Emre Kanal
from iPhone
People who send me emails without a subject rarely have anything to say that I want to read. If you're too lazy to write a subject, then I'm too lazy to read your ramblings.
- Otto
The business world relies on subject messages for threading and sorting, and I anticipate will do so for some time. I would keep it.
- Louis Gray
Doesn't anybody ever take any business communications classes/training any more? Email without subjects lines is like a meeting without an agenda. Oh, and get off my lawn. Humbug.
- Ken Sheppardson
a direct message? no subject line. an email-like message? subject line for sure.
- Jim Is Not Smart
This is why ultimately we may need to abandon email. It's broken in many ways, but difficult to change.
- Paul Buchheit
If by "broken" you mean "people don't take the time to learn how to use it effectively", I agree. ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
For something meant to be so essential to communication, it shouldn't take time to use effectively: it should be a natural extension of what we do. If we're relying on everyone to use it correctly, that's not very efficient.
- Mark Trapp
ya i dont no why anybody wood half to lern how to do stuff it shuld all be natural
- Ken Sheppardson
Is it the norm to expect everyone to be bilingual? Why not expect electronic communication media to be an extension of the one form of communication that we all spend years to master? Why is it necessary to have to spend another large tract of time to learn another form of communication?
- Mark Trapp
Paul, do you think Google Wave will solve this problem? It doesn't have a subject line and it's much more different than email.
- Eren Emre Kanal
Eren, I don't know what will happen with Wave. It's a very interesting concept, but I suspect that it still needs a lot of refinement.
- Paul Buchheit
Now I'm curious what the subject-free gmail would have looked like, especially messages to/from other email systems.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
It's less different than you would imagine Bruce. The biggest change is in the composer. Gmail already kind of merges subject with body in the inbox. Unfortunately I didn't figure out the right ui until sometime after wanting to remove the subject. If I had thought of it sooner, we might have been able to do it.
- Paul Buchheit
At least I (mostly) got rid of it on reply though :)
- Paul Buchheit
Writing concisely, knowing what a paragraph is/should be, understanding what a "topic sentence" is, and being able to summarize a document in a single sentence aren't skills that are unique to email. Blog posts, reports, books, magazine articles all have subjects... except we call them "titles". Seems like the people I work with all use email in a ways that's fundamentally different than some of you. I don't really get where the idea that subjects are superfluous is coming from.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, when I call up a friend or family member, I don't start the call with "This phone call will be about the weather. Hey Dad, how's it going?" Conversations are not written prose, and the premise being put out is that emails are extensions of conversations.
- Mark Trapp
That's a great example Mark. Subjects are very formal.
- Paul Buchheit
As is most business communication.
- Ken Sheppardson
Email is formal, chat isn't...
- Johnny Worthington
Mark: I notice that most if not all the entries on http://marktrapp.com/blog have subjects/titles. Why?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, because they're prose, not conversations.
- Mark Trapp
Paul - the fact that you say you "mostly got rid of it on reply" is exactly why subjects are so necessary. How else do we keep those conversations inline when dealing with other e-mail clients? Not all e-mail clients are able to thread conversations the way Gmail and Evolution do. With most of them, we have to rely on being able to sort/group by subject in order to keep related conversations together. As long as that functionality is broken, the concept of a subject has to stay in place.
- Curtiss Grymala
Curtiss, I'm not talking about removing the RFC822 header, I'm talking about changing the ui so that people don't have to waste time thinking about subjects.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, I have to disagree with eliminating email. It's VERY useful for me in the way that I use it and for the people with whom I correspond. Of course, I don't have Wave yet so I may be eating my words soon.
- Jim Is Not Smart
OK, I'm out. Y'all can continue to imagine this sort of topicless/subjectless world where email's just about "conversations"... good luck with that.
- Ken Sheppardson
But, somewhere that subject still needs to originate. Especially when we are talking about formal business communication, all of our messages (assuming you are using a snippet from the beginning of the message as the subject) would have a subject of "Greetings, _____" or "Dear ________" which would be completely counter-intuitive.
- Curtiss Grymala
Imagine a typewriter.
- Paul Buchheit
In the old days, when letters didn't have subjects, there was no easy way to automatically file them together or find one you were looking for. I would hate to go back to that.
- Gabe
Imagine, if you will a typewriter NOOOOOOO!!!! I'm so glad computers came along! I had a temp job working on a selectric, on a 3-carbon forms. It was a nightmare.
- anna sauce
I just figured out how to filter my gmail for no subjects. Took a while, but subject:"no subject" will do the trick. Looking through those, they're almost all crap. I'm going to give them their own label for a while, see how they look. If they continue to suck, I'll set up a canned response to tell the sender to stick a subject on there before sending it.
- Otto
What would be a great innovation is if an email program let you assign a subject to email conversations that the original sender wasn't polite enough to write for you.
- Gabe
+1 for Gabe.
- Curtiss Grymala
repeating how the ui might play out: snippet of body becomes the subject for a long form email, or short form email message is completely scannable in the message list.
- karl dotter
Kevin is spot on for why subjects world is better.
- Matthew DeVries
I agree with Kevin. I know I'm late to this thread but to answer Paul's "How do you know on FriendFeed?", the original post in FriendFeed/Facebook is in a lot of ways like a subject. It generates an overall topic that makes replies the body. When dealing with large conversation flows such as FF/FB, this tells the reader whether it is worth reading beyond. In many ways Twitter is the...
more...
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
To add on, FriendFeed/FB Walls are in a lot of ways equivalent to being the flat file view of a message board's group of discussions/topics. Without subjects, it's just a bunch of unstructured data.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
There's the expectation of the subject field to be there - it's a hard habit to break now - and it does give a bit of context and scanability to mail clients. But the process of labeling up mail could be migrated into place - 'mail tags', so to speak. Which could work for both sender and receiver and could make mail archives more like a folksonomy - and thus offer more integration with other web services.
- zeroinfluencer
I second that David, i was thinking along the lines. I would rather see the subject line being replaced with tags. Just keywords, no summary. Less thinking needed to summarize the message into one sentence, thus more productive and even useful for e. g. semantic purposes.
- Tibor Holoda
Hey - getting back on topic (we all got derailed there for quite a while) - I see no reason that Facebook really needs subjects on their messages. Since the messages are basically only used inside of the proprietary Facebook platform, which already threads the messages anyway, there's no real need for the subject.
- Curtiss Grymala
For what it's worth, Wave takes the first couple lines and makes it a pseudo subject, from what I can tell... It made it bold in the body of the wave (is it called a body?) and then added a dash in the inbox. Check out this example: http://img.skitch.com/2009100... all i did was type "Hi Louis!" as the first line of my wave and it did the rest
- Frankie Warren
Nope, don't need subject line. Instead, use labels (tags) to filter content (folders / views)
- Susan Beebe
For Facebook messages, the subject line isn't important; context doesn't need to be set. For "business" messages (Gmail/Outlook), it's more important, because the subject line is (usually) used as the first method of filtering/prioritising.
- Andrew Terry
+1 Andrew.
- Curtiss Grymala
yup, subjects with small updates is clumsy and noting but extra line that is not needed at all
- testbeta
I don't understand the problem. In the newsfeed there is no subject-line. In the message box, which is meant for long(er) form messages, there is one for fairly obvious reasons. It allows people to summarise the message and saves space. P.S. I use Facebook messaging as email nearly as often as I do Gmail, which I also want to include the subject-line.
- Vincent van Wylick
Yes.
- Meryn Stol
Yeah! Why do we always need to be formal?? Huh!? Is It social networking thingy or office networking thing? Lol! Good question, they should remove this. :)
- Mohammad Abdurraafay
from iPhone
The whole argument is pointless because in FB the subject is optional.
- Jason Williams
from iPhone
Wow, so much complaining. For subject haters, is it really that much of a problem to leave the box blank?
- Rebecca Sun
Furthermore, if you're writing just to say "hi" or whatever, put it on the wall! (Unless you're trying to keep your relationship a secret)
- Rebecca Sun
friendfeedPoll user script - released - Report statistics on a friendfeed thread used as a poll / survey - http://userscripts.org/scripts...
Daniel Mietchen, Kol Tregaskes, HealingBrush and 25 other people liked this
Report statistics on a friendfeed thread used as a poll/survey. To customize possible answers (between 2 and 5 answers supported), in Configuration set answer1Array and answer2Array (and arrays 3 to 5 optionally). Each array can contain a single version of the answer word/phrase or multiple such as var answer1Array = ["Yes","Affirmative", "Absolutely"]; When viewing an individual post, the link Calculate Poll appears in the upper right corner of the page - click it to run or re-run a poll report.
- Micah Wittman
Featured image: http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Micah Wittman
The default configuration is: answer1Array = ['Yes','Yep','Yup']; and var answer2Array = ['No','Nope'];
- Micah Wittman
That is BRILLIANT man!
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
Thanks, Haggis.
- Micah Wittman
I was wracking my brain trying to figure what question would elicit the uniform responses of 'toothpaste', 'lemon' and 'orange'. Thanks for the link Micah!
- Kevin Fox
Kevin, new theme names? *hint hint* :D
- Micah Wittman
from iPhone
Awesome. Glad my laziness may have spurred this. I just tested it and it worked great. Just a bit pesky having to set so many variables in the array for a poll like the one I created.
- Mark Krynsky
Mark, you're absolutely spot on about the pesky nature of setting variables in the script itself. Creating a user interface for saving settings for user scripts like this is a pain (for one thing, can't use Greasemonkey data storage functions if I want straightforward compatibility with Safari/Greasekit). But the nature of this script may make it a bit easier than some because it's run...
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- Micah Wittman
Mark, regarding "spurred on" - you were the final straw :)
- Micah Wittman
This is a wonderful idea, although why not make it simpler like just a simple survey system like what Google Docs uses. -- Like this one provided for the Themes Question -- http://friendfeed-media.com/8e11391...
- Matt Ruiz
Matt, yeah, actually I participated in that one. A poll application naturally is better at the business conducting a poll. But, on a conversational system like ff, poll-like questions benefit from programmatic tallying only if they grow to a significant size. In many cases, a formal poll might not get much participation, but a casual question native to ff does.
- Micah Wittman
would it be possible to have the results update automatically when a new comment is posted? great script, thanks!
- Mike Chelen
also, is there an example topic where this script is in use?
- Mike Chelen
Mike, this is a great example post to run the Calculate Poll script on: http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Micah Wittman
friendfeedPoll [v0.1.1] released - Added auto-refresh of poll calculation upon comments being added (or deleted). Thanks for the suggestion, Mike :)
- Micah Wittman
Micah, very nice! it is so cool to see the total change live
- Mike Chelen
also found the topic from the screenshot :) http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Mike Chelen
The Secret Behind The Real-Time Web - YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
 |
Mike Chelen, Daniel Chow, anarcher and 242 other people liked this
Ross and Dan made this video to illustrate the advanced technology we use behind the scenes at FriendFeed. (Ross and Dan, you are amazing - I can't believe how awesome this thing turned out)
- Bret Taylor
from Bookmarklet
How very creative. This is very fluid and cool.
- Louis Gray
OK, not exactly what I was expecting, but very cool.
- Kevin Arth
Anyone have the video somewhere other than Youtube? it's banned here in Turkey and I can't wait until we get home (next month) to watch it!!
- Chris Myles
Bret, this video should be titled: A Love Song for FriendFeed ! Great vid (and music) !
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
This is awesome!
- Christopher Chung
with a community like this - you just can't roll-it into f.b.. keep the dream alive!
- michael sean wright
:O
- Josh Haley
Amazing, thanks for that!
- dkb
According to Ross, they used about 1030 individual pictures in the final version. Stop motion is a lot of work :)
- Bret Taylor
Sure, sure--give away all the secrets. (Are those Lego dudes union?)
- Kathy Fitch
very creative. wonder how long it took to do that stop-action?
- berchman
Ross's best work so far ! great job Ross
- goutham
Major props to Ross and Dan. FriendFeed lives on
- Shane
That's priceless. Great job, guys.
- John Craft
This is superb. I just showed it to my 5 year old son who enjoys Lego and has already taken some great photos, including one or two of his toys. So now he has the seed of the idea that, in time, he could take multiple stills and put them together to make moving pictures. Thank you very much for posting it and giving me and him that opportunity. Maybe, he might use FriendFeed one day too!
- John W Lewis
Great project!
- Anne Bouey
AWESOME!
- Kevin Fox
I think they need to make a full stop-motion version of the Matrix in legos. Now THAT would be awesome. I wonder what bullet-time looks like in LEGO?
- Bret Taylor
i'd pay to see the stop animation lego matrix, but not the sequels
- patrick
"Equipment Generously Provided By Casey Muller" - hahaha!! THIS IS AWESOMESAUCE!!! I love the creative energy and vibe in this video... LOTS of work went into that one! Thanks guys!! :)
- Susan Beebe
Genius, how much time did that all take?
- Wayne Hornsey
Chris Myles: if you want ot - DM me an address and I'll mail you a copy.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
That is so awesome
- Glenn Slaven
happy-making!
- Felicia Yue
I am more proud than ever for being a FriendFeeder :)
- Arvind
Wow!!!!!
- Mona Nomura
Excellent!!
- Kol Tregaskes
That's great!
- Devon Govett
Cool! The friendfeed's manufactury
- Benedetto Vacca
неплохо, неплохо! Продолжение будет?
- atner
Lots of handshaking I see :)
- Nicholas Kreidberg
hahaha very nice stop motion and music!
- Alex Huinchucleffy
BUMP
- Roberto Bonini
FULL OF WIN
- Jac Falcon
APE (Ajax Push Engine) :: Real time data streaming - http://www.ape-project.org/en...
Jean-Claude Bradley, Andy Bakun, Matt Mastracci and Marc Dong liked this
APE is a Server for pushing real-time data to Rich Internet Applications, no pull! Data is sent, live, to thousands of clients, in a JavaScript socket fashion. It allows you to write real-time web applications without using any client plugins (Java, Flash...).
- Eric Logan
Welcome Ryan!
Debra Moore, Free will, HealingBrush and 572 other people liked this
Congrats Robert... best wishes to all
- Rhys Amos
Congrats. Now the fun begins!!!
- Mike Shields
Awesome!
- dstamand
Congratulations!
- Stephan Planken
Congratulations! Welcome, Ryan!
- Lance M. Brown
Awesome
- RetiredTeacherD
Yay! Congratulations!
- Jesse Stay
YAYAYAYAYAY! Congrats to you and Maryam!@#!@#!
- drew olanoff
congrats Robert and Maryam, Welcome Ryan.
- rick
Welcome to the world.
- Dave Mora
Congratulations!!!
- Mike Doeff
!!!
- sean percival
Born 11:32.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
LOL He was keepin ya'll on yer toes. CONGRATS!
- Danny Minick
Yay! Congratulations to you and your wife! Now off to buy RSS and iPhone
- Lise
Congrats!!!!!
- Mark Evans
Congratulations!
- Kenneth
I hope you're well rested, Robert ... ;-)
- Hieronymus Murphy
Congrats Robert!
- Charlie Anzman
Congratulations!
- 321
He looks like you.
- Cjay
Congratulations!
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Congrats to you all
- JanLawrence
Congrats Robert and welcome RSS!
- Robb Brock
Congratulations! Happy Birthday Ryan! Lots of love to the whole family.
- Jodi Church
SUBSCRIBED!
- drew olanoff
Hello World!
- CannonGod
Congratulations!! Welcome to the world Ryan!! :)
- Laura Zickus
<rss> awesome! </rss>
- sean percival
welcome to the new world little one! all hail our pink squirming screaming overlord!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
LOL at CannonGod's comment. It's like he started a Wordpress blog. XD
- Danny Minick
When does he start micro blogging?
- Cjay
20.5 inches long. 7 lbs. 13 oz.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
nice alpha version. welcome RSS !
- Kaïs Miled
congrats!! welcome rss!
- barbarars
Ryan is no longer in beta! LOL :D Congrats, Scoble!
- Danny Minick
Congratulations :)
- امیرعباس
RSS is finally here! Congrats Robert & Maryam
- Dennis Jernberg
Congrats Robert... best wishes to all
- joupy
Congratulations!
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
Blessings, and the best Robert!
- Nakeva Corothers
Cute!
- Charlie Anzman
مبارک باشه Congratulations
- هامد
Congrats!!!
- Jim Williams
Grats!
- Denverken
مبارکه رفیق رابرت . خدا حفظش کنه
- جـوان ایرانی
If Dave Winer comes on here and claims to have invented RSS I will smack him.
- drew olanoff
Congratulations!
- joey
Congratulations and all the best.
- Bryce Roney
Welcome Ryan!!!
- Phil
Welcome Ryan :)
- giuseppe c. | markgreene
Awesome. Congratulations!
- John McCrea
Congratulations :-)
- ѕнαнιη
Congratulations!
- anna sauce
Congratulations :) Welcome Ryan :)
- Mohamed Marwen Meddah
Congrats, Imagine where RSS and the web will be when he turns 30!
- James Watters
Congratulations to you both.
- Don McAllister
congrats Robert and Maryam :)))))
- C o n f o r m i s t
congrats to the family!!
- erik yuzwa
Welcome to RSS in Pubsubhub mode :)
- Ouriel Ohayon
Congrats to you all!! We had our second child, a boy, on Tuesday. Enjoy!!
- Alex Cordiner
from iPhone
Yay! Congrats to you, but mostly congrats to your wife for doing all of the hard work. ;-) xo
- Jennifer Leggio
Mazel Tov!
- Robb Vaules
Congrats Robert....wishing all the best to your family....
- Carlos
Congratulations! Wow! Seems like we were there just the other day! Looking forward to your late-night feeds and tweets and blog posts!
- Louis Gray
You rock! Congrats. Thanks for sharing. How's mum doing?
- Steve Lacey
from iPhone
congrats! and welcome ryan
- Daniel Levine
Congrats Robert - It is a fine family....
- Simarprit Singh
"beautiful new baby" by Robert Scoble, photojournalist. I stepped away for coffee and bang! RSS
- Brian Hendrickson
nice!
- Josh Haley
from iPhone
Thank you so much for sharing
- Sherrie Belken
:) congrats
- Shandiz
Born on Talk like a Pirate Day, too! Yarrrr!
- Josh Haley
from iPhone
congrads ms & mr scoble, :)
- chaz2b
Thanks to the good Docs!
- Keith Rowland
congrats!! ^_^
- Christine Lu
Congrats!
- Mycaptain
Steve: mum is sleeping but got to hold Ryan. Instant love!
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Welcome, Guest dear to our world / Now the world is on your own
- C o n f o r m i s t
that feels good
- Brian Hendrickson
Gonna have to learn to operate that iPhone with one hand.
- Keith Rowland
Congratulations!
- Parth Awasthi
Congratulations. Hope Maryam iis doing well
- Rachel Clarke
Congratulations! Wish him all the best!
- philos
Welcome Baby Ryan!!! My baby Ryan (17 years!) and I are honored to welcome another superstar to our planet! Love, hugs, and lots of kisses to Baby Ryan, Mommy Maryam, Dad Robert and big brothers Milan & Patrick and of course Grandma!!! My guess on Ryan's arrival (predication) was only 23 hours off. I thought he would arrive on Friday, Sept. 18th at 11:45 pm. Love to all, Kelly & Ryan Kim
- Kelly S. Kim
Congrats, Robert and Maryam.
- Derrick
Congratulations Robert, and well done Maryam! You are truly blessed :)
- Nicola Quinn
So happy for you Robert and Maryam. Yeay...another FF baby!
- Mark Krynsky
Congratulations!
- Surachart Opun
What a moment, eh? I remember when my daughter came into this world, it was so exciting there were no words for it. Congrats on your wonderful baby boy!
- Michael J. Carrasquillo
Congratulations
- testbeta
Congratulations! Welcome to the world, Ryan. :-)
- Yvette Ferry
Congratulations Robert and Maryam! And welcome Ryan. If I was having a baby today, I'd begin a blog for him/her straight away as an online diary they could look back on when grown up.
- Sandra Large
he's so cute...
- Sinem Vural
Robert, Congratulations to you and Maryamie!
- Mike Fruchter
Wow, congrats to all of you!
- Paul Salzman
Congratulations to you both!
- Forrest W. Kobayashi
Great news guys! All the best!
- Chris Nixon
الهــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــی چقده ناز نازیه.اینو فارسی نوشتم مریم جان بخونن ....راستی به باباش که نرفته:)) خوشگلتره:)) پس به شما رفته
- joupy
congratulations!!
- Jeroen De Miranda
Congratulations to you and your wife Robert!
- Randy
Congrats Robert!
- Terry Jones
congratz and welcome RSS!
- Jon Winters
Congrats Maryam :-)
- Terry Jones
Felicitations and humble prayers for your new son.
- Victor Panlilio
congrats and best wishes!
- Mike Chelen
Congratulations Robert! Welcome Ryan!
- Jeff P. Henderson
Congrats!!
- Tan Kaiquan
congrats and best wishes to all. :)
- Naor Mark
Congratulations
- Meral Alabaz
I was a c-section six week preemie in an era when that was seriously life-threatening, they didn't know if I would make for the first week. It always gets me a see a c-section / preemie come howling into the world. Welcome, little guy!
- Bob Morris (polizeros)
from iPhone
Beautiful baby! Congratulations daddy man :)
- Gary
:) Congrats Robert... best wishes to your family! Get her name in twitter and ff!
- Business Blogger【ツ】™
Congratulations to you and Maryam!
- Elwin Witzke
AmazinG!! congratulations :)
- Nakul
cutie pie baby
- Debby Bruck
Congratulations :)
- Baard @ Pixum
Ryan, good to see you.
- Burçak Çubukçu
تولدش مبارک ^_^ Congratulations!
- Emad
Warm wishes and congratulations. Love that you posted him crying.
- Irene Koehler
Congratulation to all of you! All the best for baby ryan!!!
- Arne Krueger
Congrats to both of you :)
- zephyrlily
Congratulation....best wishes to all
- Opium
woooow like :)
- کلـیـشه
Congrats M. & R.
- Giuseppe M.
ووووی مبارکه، به مریم خانوم هم تبریک ما رو بگو
- Zahra (raoros)
Congrats Robert and Maryam, Welcome to geekdom Ryan!
- Andrew Wardlaw
Contrats!!! I'm so excited!!
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Congrats.That pic brings back memories of my own baby's birth only ten months ago. C-section baby boys rock!
- Georgiana Comsa
Mazel Tov to you and Maryam.
- Michael Markman
Congrats... a few more Scobles make the world a better place ;-)
- Aad 't Hart
Congrats!
- George Mitsopoulos
Congrats... and Welcome Ryan. Good to have you among us.
- fatima
Congratulations! I
- Michael Fidler
Wonderful news. Congrats.
- Keri
Congrats Robert, and the best to you, Maryam, and of course Ryan!
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Congratulations Congratulations !!
- Farzad
Congrats
- Sandeep Swaminathan
looking to to the same in 3 weeks
- ROBIN SMITH
Congrats on the blessed event! :D
- Joel Lovato
Congrats Robert and Maryam. Welcome Ryan !!!!!!!!!
- Nir Ben Yona
Congratulations, Robert!
- Mark Trapp
Congratulations to Robert and Maryam.
- George Hall (Australia)
Right ON! I am so happy for you. I have 4 kids of my own and they are my greatest joys. Take care and I hope all goes so smooth for him and mom.
- Robert Anderson
Congratulations!
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Daddy Scobleizer!!!!!!!!!! First things first....when will he be signed up for Twitter and FF?
- krystyl
Congrats!!!
- eric susch
welcome Ryan, it's a beautiful world
- Michele Costabile
Congrats!!
- Olivia Lovag
Congrats to the Scoble family from South Africa! Welcome to the world @RSS
- Shaun Trennery
Good luck beatiful baby.
- Oğulcan Selçuk Akbulut
Congrats, Robert! :-D
- Kol Tregaskes
Congratulations Robert, and welcome Ryan!
- Giorgio Zarrelli
Congratulations Robert and R.S.S.: "Hello World" Cheers!
- Louis Trapani
warmest congratulations
- Peter Holland
what a beautiful baby=)Congratulations=)
- Candan Celik
Such a miracle and a blessing - Congratulations to you and Maryam and "big" brothers!
- Marla Schulman
Congrats, Robert. Amazing pictures!
- Jordi Soler
Congratulations to all of your family! Enjoy!
- Ed Richardson
Congratulations ... enjoy!
- Hitesh Parashar
Congratulations!!!! He's beautiful! Welcome little one! I'm proud to share a birthday with you!
- Martha
Congratulations Robert and Maryam! Welcome to the world Ryan :-)
- Rasmus Lauridsen
happy birthday BABY
- ≤ M@RzI
Best congratulations!!!! :)
- CantorJF
Congrat Robert. It is wonderful what this new media could do to share your joy!
- Gianto Widianto
congrats!
- Pradhap Nirmal Natarajan
Congratulations!
- Steve Garfield
به به . قدم نو رسیده مبارک مریم جان . خیلی نازه :)
- RokhSaare
Hope the baby and mum are well. Congratz. Happy Ied Mubarak =)
- zʍıɔ
Congrats on the blessed event! Welcome to the world, Ryan
- Jazz Baker
Congratulations!
- Jim Is Not Smart
appena nato e già dal dentista?
- paolo beneforti
Congrats :)
- Maryam Ardakani
from FreshFeed
He was delivered by a Blue Man?
- paul mooney
Congrats Robert. It's allways a special moment. I still have my child birth in my memory!
- Rui
What a happy day! A healthy new Scoble and mom.
- Dave Winer
آخي ، بچته ؟؟؟ مبارك باشه تو روز به اين عزيزي به دنيا اومده ، بت نميخوره بچه انقدري داشته باشي شيطون
- mohammad
My goodness, congratulations!
- DGentry
Congrats!
- Ivo Mortani
Congratulations!! and best wishes
- Johni Fisher
congrats!
- masstrovato
Congratulations! I hope everyone's ok?!
- Holger Eilhard
حاجي خانومت ايرانيه جدي ؟؟؟ پس خيلي مباركه ديگه
- mohammad
Congratulations, Scoble family!
- Bill Scherer
wonderfull
- braciolanet
from BuddyFeed
Congratulations to you and your family Robert! A very handsome baby boy! Cant wait to see more pictures!
- TiffanyCarr
Congratulations, Robert.
- motownmutt
Congratulations!
- :: Kim Sherrell ::::
congrats :)
- £lham
مبارکه :)
- خیزران kheyzaran
Congrats!
- Roozbeh
Congrats to Robert and Maryam!
- Bec Rowe @d0tski
WooHoo! My best to the whole family. I hope Maryam is getting some rest after all that hard work!
- Robert Couture
Congrats to you and your fam, Robert :)
- LANjackal
Ryan was born when the Berlin Marathon was finishing. Perhaps he'll be a long-distance runner. Congrats.
- Carl Jacobsen
Congratulations to you and the wife, Robert! Job well done. I see he is gonna take after his Daddy! ;-0 ,hehe:-)
- Duliece
One more congrats won't hurt, right? Thanks for sharing the pics.
- Kevin Sablan
Congratulations :)
- A35G
Congrats - Exciting & now the fun begins :-)
- PXLated
Wishing you and yours the best on this wonderful day! Congratulations!
- Steve
Congrats on the RSS feed update :) I hope you've pinged both rsscloud and pubsubhubbahubba !
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Starting today. Sleep will be nothing more than a fond memory. :) Congrats.
- Richard
Congrats!
- Herb Hernandez
from iPhone
Congrats!
- YusufOzanTasdemir
Congrats Robert!!
- Taehoon Kim
Congratulations!
- Thomas Hawk
Congratulations to you both :)
- 1x29
Congratulations to all!
- malackey
fantastic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- michele ficara
Awe!! Congrats =)
- Brodie Beta
Congratulazioni!! ^______^
- Andrea | amnesiak1978
congrats!!
- Clarita
Congratulations to your whole family, Robert :-)
- Mistletoe Glen
Welcome Ryan! Congratulations Robert and family!
- Tim Probst
from iPhone
Congratulations!!! God bless....
- Bob DeMarco
Congrats!
- Jason Williams
from iPhone
Congratulations Robert, Maryam and Milan! All the best to the four of you.
- Eiso Kant
Congratulations :-)
- Jalada
Congrats! Enjoy.
- Jim Peake
Congrats
- BeeLing
Congratulations!!
- Paolo Leonardi
Congratulations, Robert and Maryam!
- Helen Sventitsky
Congratulations!
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
Congratulations.
- ashish
Congrats
- Brian Appleby
oooww wonderfulll :))
- Ucandepik
Well done, my son's name as well.
- Robert Kenney
Congratulations
- Caleb Scribner
Congrats
- Manuel Mas
Congrats! Best wishes to you, Ryan and all your family!
- Lenny Post
congrats ^_^
- Furkan Tunalı
Conga Rats!
- Michael R. Bernstein
Wonderful! Enjoy!
- Alan Morris
Hello!
- N.G. Gordon - RadarSync
Absolutely wonderful. Welcome to the world Ryan!
- Loren Heiny
from iPhone
Congrats :)
- Hasan Al Shehabi
Congratulations to both of you.
- Roberto Bonini
OMG Congrats to both of you, he looks healthy and promising.
- Jeunelle Foster
Congratulations to everyone! He looks healthy! I am sure you must all be very happy! ;)
- Altan Khendup
Congratulations! May your tribe ever increase in happiness, joy, and fulfilment.
- trey pennington
Congrats!
- Ben Parr
what would be ryan's reaction when he would read this post someday, so many folks who knew dad congratulating him!
- testbeta
Congratulations!
- Anne Bouey
hiya RSS!
- Laura Norvig
Yah!! Congratulations.
- Micah Wittman
Congratulations to the whole Scoble family!
- WorldofHiglet
Congratulations to the whole family! Enjoy these most precious times.
- Marylene Delbourg-Delphis
best wishes to all
- Hamza Şamlıoğlu @TEAkolik
congrats Robert and Maryam
- Kevin Tunis
Congratulations, Robert!
- Sabri Küstür
from FreshFeed
Wonderful. Best wishes to Ryan...
- Mitchell Tsai
Congratulations to the whole family :)
- Chris Saad
Congratulations
- Samaneh
Congratulations. cute :)
- FFTornado
Congratulations. First picture on twitter!
- Cindy Makonin
I just came to make sure you were getting a proper congratulations
- Sherrie Belken
Welcome :)))
- Flynn (Michael A. Volz)
congrats;)
- خاتون
Congratulations to the Scobles!
- Carlton Prest
Congrats Robert!
- Jorge Escobar
congratulations, Robert and Maryam.
- Valeria Maltoni
congrats!
- Daniel Brusilovsky
WOW - what a miracle - congrats!
- Mark Harai
Congratulations Robert & Maryam!
- Rodrigo Jaroszewski
Congrats from Italy, Ryan!
- Federico Bolsoman
from iPhone
Congratulations Robert and sorry for delay, Best wishes
- erfan
He is crying: "I want an iPhone". Felicitations!
- William Mougayar
May he be blessed throughout his life! God bless you, Robert and Maryam!
- Melanie Reed
CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!
- Greg Ness
congrats :)
- Erdinc [bilimdiyari.com]
Congrats Robert & your family :)
- Sampad Swain
what a beautiful little guy! congratulations! rock on!
- B.L. Ochman
great day, congrats
- imran
Wow congratulations to both you and Maryam you must be so proud :)
- David Richardson
from Android
Congratulations
- Eric Logan
Wow, Congratulations, Robert and Maryam!! Ryan looks beautiful.:-)
- Cathryn Hrudicka
Congrats man. That's so awesome.
- Give 'Em DBizness
Happy Babbie Day!
- Jack (a.k.a. Jeber)
Congrats!
- Zachary TG
Congrats! I wish a long and healthy life.
- Muammer Okumuş
Robert, you newest addition is too freaking adorable. I hope you and Maryam are doing well. Congratulations! Here's to a long, prosperous future!
- Mike Nayyar
Welcome, Ryan - you picked a good family!
- Matthew Blaisdell
congrats to you and Maryam! And welcome, RSS!
- Joshua Allen
from fftogo
congrats!!! Welcome to Ryan
- Dario Salvelli
Congratulations to you and Maryam! E benvenuto Ryan!
- Marco Fabbri
Congrats! :)
- Emmanuel Anumonwo
Congratulations!
- mlazopoulou
Such auspicious times... Welcome, Ryan!
- Red Label
O HAI, Ryan! Congratulations to Daddy and Mommy, too!
- Ladybug Heather
What's Ryan's Twitter address?
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
from iPod
قدم نو رسیده مبارک!congratulations
- Jan Valjan
Congrats, best wishes. :)
- Hunt
حوزه جان بیا در گوشش اذان بگو
- مـــــــــمد
woohoo! congrats!
- Tyson
That is a wonderful moment! All the best to momma, baby and the family!
- Mary Gilmour
Congrats Robert! Welcome Ryan!
- Garin Kilpatrick
Awesome, Congratulations Robert and Maryam! And welcome to the world Ryan.
- Mitch Baldwin
Happy parenting! Congrats!
- Natallini
Groovy + one geek on the planet
- Yann Ropars
Congrats!!! Robert
- Steve Chou
To the proud Papa.....Congratulations!!
- Bonnie Foster
Congratulations Team Scoble. Best of good wishes to all of you.
- Morrie Johnston
Congrats Robert and family!!! Welcome Ryan :)
- buvanesh
congrats Robert!
- Joshua Guffey
Congratulations! RS
- Sean Kelly
Congrats :D
- Emre Misvaklı
Congratulations. he's so cute :)
- Armando Grati
Beautiful!
- Ryan Sholin
Congratulations
- Kreg Steppe
Congratulations!
- Gordon Saunders
Congratulations!
- موسوی Hamid Reza میر
Congrats Robert....How amny more before you have your baseball team :-)
- Alex Marrow
Seriously, Best whishes.............God Bless......
- Alex Marrow
Mazal Tov!
- Raanan Avidor
All the best! Fun Times!!!!
- Jim Turner
congrads now the fun starts, beautiful baby
- Debra Moore
congrads !
- ★ Soner Gönül
Congrats and Best Wishes!
- Tracy Benham
Looks like the baby's first trip to the dentist
- Steve Borgman
Welcome, Ryan! Congrats, Robert!
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
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