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Marcia Conner › Likes
More brainfood for those interested: Facebook and The Huffington Post take the phrase social media to a new level: http://www.thebigmoney.com/article...
Marcia Conner liked this
RT @kylejameson @lydiabreakfast I'm in love http://img44.imageshack.us/img44... Amen!!! Grammaticans unite!
Marcia Conner liked this
FF Format: This platform may be familiar to some, but it's new to all of us utilizing it for a 'Twitter' chat. Since there are open threads for anyone to comment in AND create, we're going to put our main questions within specific 'Q' threads and then a 'RANDOM' thread where ppl can freestyle with questions or conversations. Sound good?
Bryan Person and Marcia Conner liked this
sounds good to me. Does this update by itself, or do I need to refresh my browser?
- Daniel Johnson, Jr.
auto-refresh! :)
- Sonny Gill
Sounds good!
- Teresa Basich
Updates are gonna came quickly, Daniel. Be ready!
- Bryan Person
I manage another tweet chat (#lrnchat) and look forward to seeing how this goes in the event we want to use it there too. Thank you for the lab experiment!
- Marcia Conner
I'm missing ppls avatars for responses. Liked seeing the human side.
- Jeff Hurt
Jeff, I think many people on this chat are new to FriendFeed and haven't yet had time or worked out how to upload their avatars. UPDATE: Now I see your point. You don't see the avatar next to each person's comment. Only by the person who starts the thread.
- Bryan Person
Definitely advantages from an organizational standpoint, but I'm with Jeff -- I miss avatars inside the discussion threads. Plus @replies.
- Bill Free
@Bryan & @Sonny I just miss seeing their avatar in a line beside their name. Unless you scroll over person's name. Makes if feel less human to me. I'm hating having to scroll so much.
- Jeff Hurt
@Bryan & @Sonny - Thanks for trying new platform. I'm' out for now. Not working for me personally. Feels like I'm jumping from group to group trying to keep up instead of seeing live stream of convo regardless if off topic or not.
- Jeff Hurt
@Jeff Hurt: this format is definitely useful for browsing the archive. Participating in live is a bit cumbersome, though, I'd have to agree.
- Daniel Johnson, Jr.
Can you help teach a class in real time? Right now you are on the screen. Can you teach me everything about "leadership?" Help here:
Daniel Schildt, Jorge Barba, Johni Fisher and 74 other people liked this
Feel free to point to blogs, videos, or other things.
- Robert Scoble
Hello Y'all
- Kreg Steppe
Where do you want it, in the comments?
- Ton Zijp
www.whitehouse.org :)
- Stephanie Segel
hell NO.. too much noise !!
- Peter Dawson
Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results. -George S. Patton
- Ross Miller
Define Leadership: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- Kreg Steppe
HBR : Ten Fatal Flaws That Derail Leaders http://hbr.harvardbusiness.org/2009...
- David Peacock
or would that be www.whitehouse.gov -- dammit :(
- Stephanie Segel
Leadership means taking risks, calculated or otherwise, and being willing to either fail or succeed, but to learn in any case. For many, social media's risky--and that's exactly why you may find leaders here.
- dontgetcaught
"I'm going to do something I never do; give a direct order." Captain Hawkeye Pierce, M*A*S*H
- Dan: Bibrarian
WIKIPEDIA about leadership ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- @LarsenTweet
desmond tutu on leadership - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Netbooknews
Peter Drucker's books are a good go-to for a start...
- Helene
The Art of War (on Google Book Search): http://books.google.com/books...
- Josette
If you have to say you're a leader, you probably aren't.
- Ordinarybug Heather
658.4092
- Dan: Bibrarian
Best leadership quotes: http://houseofquotes.com/quotes... Because saying something is more important than actually doing it ;)
- Carlton Prest
A leader is a dealer in hope. Napoleon Bonaparte
- Stephanie Segel
VIDEO - Seth Godin Explains Why You Need a Tribe -> http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- @LarsenTweet
Leadership is practice what you belive in..courage to stand up in hard times.. and the will to make a difference !! ..
- Peter Dawson
Leaders know when to sit in the passenger seat and button the lip. Leaders empower others rather then themselves.
- Vincent Lowe
Ken: this thread. This is awesome.
- Robert Scoble
How long do you plan to run this class for? 10 years? Leadership is not taught, it's learnt.
- thomasrdotorg
Let the students run the class.
- Carlton Prest
thomasrdotorg: this thread goes forever. The physical class is for the next 50 minutes, though.
- Robert Scoble
A leader is someone who allows his people to do what they need to do, stay out of the way, protect them from interference and let them shine.
- SteVe C
Carlton: you're running the class!!!!!
- Robert Scoble
I haven't had this much fun in a class since I skipped history classes in high school....
- Stephanie Segel
Great idea for a thread but the best I could do would be post a reading list... Leadership is such a deep subject... Siddhartha, 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership, How to Win Friends and Influence People, Fierce Conversations... it could go on forever.
- SAM
I remember someone from Pixar did a great speech on Leadership for TED not long ago. I can't seem to find the link.
- DocileWalnut
Napoleon Hill wrote that these are the major attributes required to be a successful leader 1. UNWAVERING COURAGE 2. SELF-CONTROL 3. A KEEN SENSE OF JUSTICE 4. DEFINITENESS OF DECISION 5. DEFINITENESS OF PLANS 6. THE HABIT OF DOING MORE THAN PAID FOR 7. A PLEASING PERSONALITY 8. SYMPATHY AND UNDERSTANDING 9. MASTERY OF DETAIL 10. WILLINGNESS TO ASSUME FULL RESPONSIBILITY 11. COOPERATION
- Dave Amphlett
Leadership: Don't fake it, people smell fear
- Dave Hodson
Listen and take good notes!
- Mark Layton
Being a leader is very different from being a manager.
- Ordinarybug Heather
Leadership is standing up for what you think is right, and leading the way in that effort
- Jesse Stay
open source leadershi p via joi ito :)- http://joi.ito.com/archive...
- Peter Dawson
A leader does not command respect or demand respect, he earns respect.
- Aron Michalski
"Leading Minds" by Howard Gardner: http://www.amazon.com/Leading...
- Fred Yankowski
Compassion.
- Kenley Neufeld
I can show it to you http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Lee
Larson, anything by Seth Godon is just brilliant
- Shawn Hickman
Leadership - when you post a question on friendfeed and hundreds reply in several minutes. For free. :D
- Sasha Kovaliov
I am trying to think of a way to tie the Darth Vader Corset featuring boobs into the leadership conversation.
- SteVe C
This is real, real time - watching the number of comments from 0 to 41, 42..43 44 45
- Ashu Joshi
Join Toastmasters
- Prolific Programmer
Leadership is influence.
- SAM
http://www.amazon.com/gp... Good book. cheap too
- Manuel Arroyo
"A successful leader seeks and accepts responsibility and accountability"- http://www.scribd.com/doc...
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
Leaders ask, listen, then decide...a lot like social media best practices. Maybe the technology's helping us catch up to where we should be. So let me ask: what do *you* think leadership is?
- dontgetcaught
on the Jack welsh style :)- http://peterdawson.blogspot.com/2007...
- Peter Dawson
Leadership lessons from Ulysses S. Grant
- Manuel Arroyo
good leaders listen and realize that good ideas can come from anywhere and anyone.
- Sara DelektaGalligan
The picture says a thousand words, but a caption helps: http://www.mos95b.com/New...
- Carlton Prest
teach people correct principles and let them govern themselves
- Jan Dawson
agree with Sara
- Manuel Arroyo
Be decisive
- Shakeel Mahate
Asking the right question at the right time and listening for the answer.
- Aron Michalski
To unleash creativity, sometimes you need to be ready to lead from behind
- Sameer
do not be afraid to make decisions
- Manuel Arroyo
Building a Dream: The Oprah Winfrey Leadership Academy: http://www.imdb.com/title...
- Ton Zijp
Leadership: doing something no one else does...showing the way. Showing the possibilities. Paying attention. Engaging, reciprocal conversations.
- Sheryl
Today I read a tweet in Dutch which translates to: "Power is not a good reason to lead: a good leader creates leaders, not followers".
- Patrick Mackaaij
"The Art and Science of Leadership:" http://www.nwlink.com/~doncla...
- Carlton Prest
A different way to learn about leadership is to read Memoirs of Hadrian, a novel by French writer Marguerite Yourcenar about the life and death of Roman Emperor Hadrian. http://www.amazon.com/Memoirs...
- Paul Rodriguez
Define a leader with Google Search: Just type this in the search field: define:leader
- @LarsenTweet
The Purpose of Pedegogy - http://elgg.net/vinall...
- Peter Dawson
Hello class: “A leader is one who knows the way, goes the way, and shows the way.” Ohh, and you should bare in mind - Popularity is not leadership.
- Nir Ben Yona
Henry Ford once said "If I asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'A faster horse'." So try something dumb or unexpected at least once in a while.
- DocileWalnut
Best book I've read on leadership: http://www.amazon.com/Leaders...
- Tim Costantino
Robert, are you putting this up on Kyte?
- Manuel Arroyo
A good team makes a good leader. Without a good team leadership is nothing but herding cats.
- Dilip Dand
Leadership = Responsibility.
- Sasha Kovaliov
Learn from the mistakes of others, what you should not do as a leader - you cannot be partial to some, or have favorites, you cannot intimidate, you cannot lie
- Shakeel Mahate
I disagree with the "waffling" comment. A good leader continues to consider new points of view and isn't afraid to say, "I've reconsidered."
- Vincent Lowe
"A very generic concept of leadership is that of directly or indirectly influencing others, by means of authority, formal or informal, or by personal attributes, to act in accordance with one's intent or shared purpose" - same ref as my last
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
The Manager's Cheat Sheet: 101 Common-Sense Rules for Leadershttp://www.insidecrm.com/feature...
- Ton Zijp
Leadership: Having the best BS detector in the room. Even if the room is expanding and expanding... like this one...
- Mark Zip
"If you're dumb, surround yourself with smart people. If you're smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you." Issac Jaffe on SportsNight
- Andy Roth
If you aren't the lead sled dog, the scenery never changes!
- Jim Tierney
according to Carol Bartz of Yahoo, it involves "███████ drop-kicking people's █████ to ███████ Mars"
- Karim
"A leader takes people where they want to go. A great leader takes people where they don't necessarily want to go, but ought to be." -Rosalynn Carter
- Leanno Software
oh I 4got to like this thought tapestry.. this is actuall open source cull point.. Scobles is da man !! :)-
- Peter Dawson
Sorry, I'm not doing video, didn't have a video compatible ccomputer.
- Robert Scoble
Leadership is Michael Arrington whining about the lack of a decent tablet device. Then making his own, and making it look really fantastic.
- Carlton Prest
How does a company get Leaders in management positions? and why doesn't it happen more often?
- SteVe C
Monday Morning Leadership was also a decent book http://www.amazon.com/Monday-...
- Manuel Arroyo
@Sasha it's more ... Leadership = seeking out and accepting Responsibility
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
To lead you have to fight the urge to run when things are scary. If they're scary, that's exactly what you need to do. You grow by trying new things. Complacency achieves nothing.
- Sheryl
Listen voraciously, speak cautiously, invest in others before asking for something in return, don't assume influence - build it, maintain vision, back it with understanding and knowledge, and continually focus on being the best most creative and humble person you can be. Then try to get others to do it all with you.
- SAM
Here http://bit.ly/IRqOk - real time "leadership" on the net :)
- Sasha Kovaliov
at this 2:38am all I can say, what my teacher once told me, take the responsibilities and don't be afraid of them, help people by showing the right way of doing things
- Hameedullah Khan
In case we're in a techy mood, Steve Jobs once said that "“Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.”
- Nir Ben Yona
When you scream, tell, me to do something be sure you tell me exactly what to do or you may find you get what you asked for. rough paraphrase of Neil Young (as heard on PBS earlier today)
- Angela E. Taylor
@Capn' One-Eye ☠ - agree :) Btw, this is better than http://www.ask500people.com/!
- Sasha Kovaliov
well said @Hameedullah Khan
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
@Carlton , wth was that about leadership and Mike A ? thats Total BS !!
- Peter Dawson
management can be taught, leadership cannot.
- Sherri
Just read 'The Prince' leaders are defined by their victories; even companies its the same; once they win in a major market its hard to move to a new style of victory.
- James Watters
@Sherri - leadership can be cultivated.
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
If your looking for bullet points the John Wooden Leadership Pyramid is a pretty good place to start: http://www.entrepreneur.com/managem...
- Bill Rawlinson
@Peter, the man wanted a decent tablet device. Instead of whining about it constantly, he decided to make his own. It's called initiative, and all good leaders have it.
- Carlton Prest
@Sasha - agreed!
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
Great Leadership doesn't boast. It doesn't need to. It's almost palpable.
- Sheryl
@Capn' One-Eye - yes, but only if the seeds are there.
- Sherri
Leadership theories in MS-Word format http://www.snc.edu/lsi...
- LPH™ and his dog P™
@Sherri - yes that's true
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
hey scoble! thanks for using social media to change the world!
- Jason Pollock
I believe Leadership can be learned, by observing a good leader. I think this counts as leadership can be taught to those willing to learn.
- SteVe C
Are the people at this conference impressed with your social media prowess yet? i hope so!
- Jason Pollock
An answer I posted on StackOverflow about leadership in tech - before I had an account - http://stackoverflow.com/questio...
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
Leadership comes from people who have a clear vision of what they want and then they go out and get it.
- Jason Pollock
+1 sheryl
- mehdi
As a starting point I'd want my class to read and try to appreciate Machiavelli's "The Prince" within the context in which he lived: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- Rick Bucich
Leadership comes from the dude with the biggest camera lens.
- Jason Pollock
A leader does not have to ask to be followed. A leader is one who people want to follow.
- Dilip Dand
@ Rick Bucich; The Prince is just about all you need to understand about leadership
- James Watters
hey nobody brought up knowledge at Wharton - series :)- http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/categor...
- Peter Dawson
Leadership is a cloudy concept because people confuse the art of being followed, with the art of directing followers well.
- James Watters
Leadership Rocks: http://www.shop.slustore.com/images...
- Ton Zijp
.jpg){kind=link}
Lead Follow or get out of the way!
- DivemasterDoug
My answer on StackOverflow is the green one ;)
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
Woodrow Wilson said: The ear of the leader must ring with the voices of the people. - In other words, in order to lead you must pay attention to those around you.
- Sheryl
leadership comes from people who take a chance when everyone else thinks they are crazy.. like the characters of my new feature film.. The Youngest Candidate, http://theyoungestcandidate.com
- Jason Pollock
best read of middle eastern leadership :)- Dubai Media Deputy CEO Najla Al-Awadhi: Empowering Others through Information
- Peter Dawson
The ability to move and direct people to a certain destination.
- Michele Lorito-Chase
Leaders don't just post links or quotes
- James Watters
oppyss heres the linky for my previous comment http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article...
- Peter Dawson
Leaders don't need social networks either, James...
- Ton Zijp
@ Peter Dawson; don't you think empowerment is slightly separate from leadership?
- James Watters
I believe everyone is a leader to some degree... it's not a definition but an innate part of being human and being involved in society. Like a sense of humor... everyone has one, even if you can't detect it from the jokes you're telling.
- SAM
@James, no its part of being a leader. empowering others !
- Peter Dawson
This exercise has proven a rare breed of leadership - realizing when those around can add incredible value and letting them take center stage. This is a very tough lesson for most leaders to master, but it's illustrated quite well here!
- Tom Parnell
Nicholas, Zuckerberg needs money to be a leader. ;-)
- Ton Zijp
Leaders don't waste time being critical of others. It's to their benefit to raise their groups morale, not pull it down.
- Sheryl
General Petraeus at Harvard ROTC comissioning: "“1st, lead by example. If you lean forward in the foxhole, your troopers will too.”" http://www.julescrittenden.com/2009...
- Charles Fenwick
@Ton; I'm not the leader in this case, scoble is, I'm just in the rank and file
- James Watters
Interesting, the student is very silent. Is he listening or has ADD :)
- Dilip Dand
Mental toughness. No one can lead without being criticized or without facing discouragement.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
A leader listens
- Michele Lorito-Chase
Robert, are the students commenting also btw?
- Sasha Kovaliov
@James, most leader empower their team and then get the hell out of way so the team can run the race. they (the leader) are there only to remove the hurdles.. most CEO are chief Hurdle removers !!
- Peter Dawson
A truly great Leader can lead with his mouth shut.
- Sheryl
people browser is awesome
- rich price
I maintain that leadership is just the art of being followed; management is what comes after
- James Watters
Scoble, you mind if I sell this thread to Franklin Covey or John Maxwell?
- SAM
Nicholas: so Zuckerberg is not a leader yet, one could say.
- Ton Zijp
A leader gives credit when contributions are made, understanding that perceptions vary among the collective intelligence.
- Michele Lorito-Chase
We are here posting for Scoble because he was one of the first big victors in corporate blogging; case in point; we arent posting for a also ran; being followed stems from victories and conquests always has
- James Watters
@Scott, only if you give the $$$ to the SickKids foundation :)- LOL
- Peter Dawson
Interesting that so many people are posting "traits" of a leader - only one portion of leadership.
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Michele, there were lots of leaders who didn't listen, but they still lead. They should've, but they didn't.
- Ton Zijp
@LPH - hey yeah traits are better, after all Hitler was a leader too !! let not forget that .. likewise Pol Pot, Stalin and a host of others.. there is the dark side of leadership too !
- Peter Dawson
Leadership is about being genuine, and enabling others to achieve their full potential with your guidance. It's the capability to deliver and achieve while compelling others to do so as well.
- Louis Gray
@ Louis Gray; -1 squishy
- James Watters
++1 Louis Gray !
- Peter Dawson
Nicholas: but maybe Zuckerberg is being lead too (not that I totally agree with what I'm saying myself, but I like questions ;-)).
- Ton Zijp
A genuine person without a victory will not be followed
- James Watters
Peter - yes - I was meaning traits is only one theory about leaders. Followers are just as important - as are circumstances - as are so many other factors.
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Ton, you are correct. Bad leadership desires a thread of it's own.
- Michele Lorito-Chase
Leadership is optimistic! :)
- Sheryl
http://www.leadershipjot.com/ - Thoughts, suggestions, and tips to improve leadership.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
http://www.siliconangle.com/ver2... post responding to gap between social and business leadership traits
- James Watters
The Leadership Challenge from Jim Kouzes and Barry Posner (suggesting leadership is a learned behavior) http://www.leadershipchallenge.com/WileyCD...
- LPH™ and his dog P™
@Jeff +10
- James Watters
Jeff: talking about leadership is talking in cliché's?
- Ton Zijp
don't be a turd. Bosses are normally turds. Leaders are people that lead first by doing and teach you how to do it the right way without being overbearing or conceded.
- Zach Scott
When wolves fight for pack leader they don't fight to the death or great injury; just till the moment they know who would win
- James Watters
It's worth noting (if it hasn't been already) that great leadership involves setbacks almost by necessity. It's how those loses are learned from and adapted that differentiate how well individuals move forward.
- Rick Bucich
Leadership is not about directing followers, rather it's about influence; acting in a way that others find useful, interesting and engaging.
- Marcia Conner
@ Marcia +1 distinguishing between influence and management; thank you!
- James Watters
The best leaders I've seen are wise enough to surround themselves with very smart people. Smarter than the leader in many cases.
- Kevin C. Tofel
If the students aren't interacting, this is like listening to 300 lecturers at once.
- Bruce Lewis
+ Bruce
- Todd Hoff
Did I miss someone posting about transactional leadership? People are motivated by reward and punishment.
- LPH™ and his dog P™
@ Bruce; yes and since no one can clearly win for best lecture there is no leader
- James Watters
Robert: I feel like a guinea pig. What are you teaching the students about this? :)
- Sheryl
Nicholas: Yes - McGregor's ideas -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Sheryl; I believe his hope was more about the human search and link engine than our personal thoughts
- James Watters
did i make it to the screen
- rich price
I'm spent. l8tr
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
In a healthy environment motivation comes from within (not reward/punishment). We need people who think & act, not retrieve & salivate.
- Marcia Conner
Don't be afraid to make mistakes... or own up to them.
- Steve Lynch
from twhirl
[adjusts monocle] ja, ja, but reward & punishment in ein hierarchy is der basis of der Führerprinzip ("leader principle"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... a TRUE LEADER demands ABSOLUTE OBEDIENCE from those below him. you Amerikaners are so soft.... [swats riding crop into palm]
- Karim
Well, one thing you could teach is that geeks have a short attention span. Over half an hour and we move on....
- Sheryl
glad @marciamarcia pointed me to this. when I've led, I've followed 2 principles: 1) Shunryu Suzuki's principle of control: the best way to control a person is not to try to control, but to watch, and give them lots of space and 2) peer pressure. a person follows me as a leader because the group wants to and the person wants the acceptance of the group
- Lou Clark
lol Ken http://www.angelfire.com/pa...
- Karim
way 2 go, robert!
- Adri Munier
Leading without being in charge: http://www.slideshare.net/selenam...
- Michael R. Bernstein
Jeff, do the principles that effect good leadership change when you're doing it from the head of the pack as opposed to within?
- SAM
Kouzes & Posner are the best foundation ever. 5 practices - their pentathlon: inspire, challenge, model, encourage, enable. Can't beat 'em. www.theleadershipchallenge.com
- Dan Mulhern
What is the purpose of the class - why do you want to learn everything about leadership? Is it to improve the participants leadership skills or just to tickle their curiosity? If you really want your class to improve their abilities to lead, you need to put them in a position where they do lead. People learn from what they do. So go ahead and give each participant (or group of participants) a challenge: lead us out of this crisis!
- Olavur Ellefsen
Jeff: +1 you make a great point. A person does not have to be a top dog, so to speak, to be a leader. Leaders come in all shapes and sizes. (Statuses too)
- Sheryl
WOW. The class was blown away by seeing this happen in real time. THANK YOU!!!!
- Robert Scoble
Robert: How many in the class already use FF?
- Sheryl
Sheryl: only a couple.
- Robert Scoble
are you looking to train a new leader or just come up with metrics for identification, Mr Scoble?
- Prolific Programmer
from IM
Robert: WOW! That's amazing! We can still teach those young whippersnappers a thing or two! WOOHOO! :)
- Sheryl
And was there somebody to film them being blown away? :-)
- Ton Zijp
What an amazing accumulation of thoughts and links to pursue. Thanks for mentioning it on Twitter.
- Violet Bliss Dietz
Never try to lead people. It doesn't work. Better off building and guiding a team. If you can organize a team that works well together, you'll spend less time trying to hold the team together and more of your energy guiding them and being productive. Treat every team member with respect. If you don't listen to them, they will not listen to you. Keep your ego and temper in check. It...
more...
- April Russo
Leader listens to everyone but when he/she speaks everyone listens.
- Ashish
Leadership & personal development often go together. I'm inspired by @BrianKlemmer & http://klemmer.com. Repetition & Experience are best ways to remember & learn. Leadership is a choice and an ongoing way of life.
- Courtney Engle
Leaders who inspire me have the knowledge: "If I can see further than anyone else, it is only because I am standing on the shoulders of giants" Newton, etc. do not pop up in blogs much, but it seems the game changers know exactly who to thank.
- E-Advocate Network
Stupid is as stupid does.
- sime0n
What Only the CEO Can Do A,G. Lafley http://hbr.harvardbusiness.org/2009...
- Jorge Barba
“Leaders are visionaries with a poorly developed sense of fear and no concept of the odds against them.”
- Jorge Barba
Gary Hamel: How to Tell If You're a Natural Leader http://blogs.wsj.com/managem...
- Jorge Barba
RT @TheRealPRMan @MelWebster: New Study Reports That Only 4% Of Users Turn To Social Media For Guidance Before They Buy http://stevefarnsworth.wordpress.com/.
Marcia Conner liked this
Quick Five Step Guide to Revising and Editing : Be A Better Writer Now - http://beabetterwriternow.com/2009...
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Marcia Conner liked this
The best way to revise and edit is to have a second pair of eyeballs take a pass with the red pen. Barring that, this is an awesome runner-up solution. (Thanks, Sally Jacobs, for pointing it out.)
- colleen wainwright
"Check out @kiva the world's first person-to-person micro-lending website alleviating poverty thru empowering entrepreneurs #followfriday”
Danielle Brigida and Marcia Conner liked this
RT @britishbulldog: Fatigue doesn’t originate in a sportsman’s muscles, it originates in their brain http://www.health24.com/fitness... (remember ...
Marcia Conner liked this
Michael Pollan: "Don't Buy Any Food You've Ever Seen Advertised" http://ow.ly/75Mo
Marcia Conner liked this
Reading 10 Commandments of eLearning: http://clive-shepherd.blogspot.com/2009...
Marcia Conner liked this
@furukama Love that Shirky quote. I used it in a discussion in the comments on this @rsomers post: http://eggheadmarketing.wordpress.com/2009...
Marcia Conner liked this
The art of presenting for graphic designers http://twitclicks.com/u8nt
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little rocker - http://bitsandpieces.us/2009...
Martin Liechti, ocde, dafire and 111 other people liked this
;-)
- Live4Emma (L4S)
from Bookmarklet
"Purple rain, puuuurple raaaaaiiiin"
- Rodfather
"I belieeeeve I can flyyyyyyy"
- ::Kristen::
Awwww yeah!
- Jonathan Hardesty
F*ck the police comin' straight out the underground...
- iTad
"Don't stop believin....Hold on to the feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelin...."
- Live4Emma (L4S)
"how am i supposed to live withowwwwwt youuuuu?"
- Morgan
"Ken Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. . . ."
- Dave Roth
TAKE! THESE BROKEN WINGS! (Oops. Not the venue.)
- Jared Smith
Cryy ... ha ha ha ha ... baby, cry baby, cry baby (Janis Joplin of course :))
- directeur
WIN
- Josh Haley
Michael Bolton, the early years.
- Josh Haley
this pic is great!
- Chieze Okoye
That is a soulful little baby
- Hutch Carpenter
Love this.
- Alan Le
HOW FLIPPIN ADORABLE
- Sean
Boorn to beee wiiiilld!
- Ozer Wrzl (EN)
how cute
- YoYo_P
I can't get enough of this pic...everytime I see it, I smile!
- Chieze Okoye
"I can't GET no . . . SATisFACTion!"
- Liz Tufte
d^_^b ♫♫♫
- Jay
stand back. I got this chorus!
- Alvin Woon
With feeling!
- Sean Oliver
Cute baby!
- @Renchin@
Ashton Kutcher Speaks Out Against Anti-Gay Slurs on Twitter - http://www.towleroad.com/2009...
Jason Nelson, sofarsoShawn, Jason and 68 other people liked this
"In response to a follower who called him "gay" for hurting his hand on a punching bag at the gym, Ashton Kutcher twittered (to his 290,655 followers): "can we just get clear, calling some one 'gay' or 'fag' is as derogatory as calling someone a 'nigger'. U look like an idiot when you do it.""
- Derrick
from Bookmarklet
yeah, he's not the brightest dude. at all.
- Cee Bee
Twitter is seriously the worst thing that's happened to some people. Wow.
- Mona Nomura
idiot WIN.
- Jim #TeamMonique
There's someone with 290K followers? Wow. And I don't even know who he is.
- Morton Fox
Why does he and Demi think they're the prom king and queen of Twitter?
- Michael Forian
Counsel from Ashton Kutcher on how not to look like an idiot = totally awesome!!
- Anthony Citrano
Is he still around? Didn't know.
- Martha
Maybe it's just me, looking at this thread so far...but it's kind of cool he did this. A lot of the folks reading that will never listen to any of us. But they'll pay attention when he says it. Maybe I'm not following Ashton closely enough?
- Hutch Carpenter
I read this entire thread with eyebrows raised. I thought what he said made perfect sense and needed to be said. Yeah, he said "nigger", but he said it for good reason. I agree with Hutch, if the man has 290K followers, SOMEONE is still worried about what he says and thinks.
- Rahsheen
He meant well. I don't get all the bashing
- Rodfather
perhaps he meant well Hutch, but his message loses impact the moment he invokes the "N" word into his message. of course he wasn't using it in a derogatory way, but he has no business using it in the first place in order to make the point he tried to make. it makes no sense at all
- Cee Bee
Maybe he shouldn't be using the N word, but I definitely give him a pass in this case.
- Rahsheen
+10 meta drama exp points
- sean percival
Looks like the gays are appreciative of Ashton speaking out in a capacity that someone not normally seen as a supporter of gay rights taking up the cause. OTOH, the use of the N word kinda deflates any loft he might have created.
- Derrick
sean - LaLaWag?
- Hutch Carpenter
To me, the use of the N word was necessary. Of course, people will complain about him using it, but saying "The N Word" is also nowhere near as powerful and nobody would be talking about it had he phrased it that way.
- Rahsheen
i disagree lindsey, especially if the word "fag" was used in whatever chain of twitter messages the one in the photo was a result of. gay bashing or epithets of that nature seem to be what the subject revolves around whereas the word "nigger" has absolutely nothing to do with this and is therefore just awkward and out of place
- Cee Bee
??? I read his tweet as : he knows the N word is terrible and shouldn't be said.. and uses it to make a point that "gay" and "Fag" are just as bad... ALL are UNACCEPTABLE!!
- Alistair (alpinefolk)
I'll just say that there are too many contradictory rules with many words and regardless of anything else, the tweet itself was an attempt for good. My grandmother taught me that good intentions always count for something, even when you frack it up sideways.
- Michael W. May
it's like if someone calls another person a "shoe" and then someone else says you shouldn't call them a shoe, because calling them a "helmet" is also unacceptable. ok, thanks for that lesson, ashton
- Cee Bee
shouldn't we base offense at words by the intent of use rather than the word itself? Some have called for censoring the word, but what use is that when we all read it out in an uncensored way? Unless people actually create a "beep" in their head when they read it. We know what that word is regardless of spurious "*" and "!" use.
- alphaxion
Of course the word "nigger" has a place here. Calling someone "fag" or "gay" as a derogatory term is just as bad as calling someone a "nigger". That's the point.
- Rahsheen
@Michael The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
And so is the road to self improvement, learning, and change.
- Michael W. May
Judging by the comments in this thread his comment was necessary. Unless I'm not understanding people who think he was wrong, it sounds like you don't agree with him.
- Kenton
I don't get the objection to his statement either. Part of me thinks its the messenger and not the message that has initiated the gag reflex displayed in this thread.
- Jason Toney
Meh. Sticks and stones.
- Mattb4rd
J. I don't see the ruse.
- Jason Toney
How was he being insincere?
- Andrew
i don't think he was being insincere, just naive and unsophisticated
- Cee Bee
Oh I wasn't referring to you, Cee Bee. J said he was using them as an artifice and of all the reactions so far that is the one I don't get.
- Andrew
Good for him. Seriously don't get the negative comments in this thread.
- Anika
The n-bomb is a word that needs to die a trillion deaths - regardless of whose mouth it's coming out of. If someone can say it freely while making a point, they can also say it freely in other contexts, too.
- Mona Nomura
I would like to see someone structure a tweet that illustrates the point as simply and powerfully as this does. Sometimes you have to smack someone in the face if you really want them to pay attention. Nobody is making any clear point as to why he shouldn't have said it this way.
- Rahsheen
I get the negative comments. I don't give people "passes" no matter what point he was trying to make. I'm not going to lead an ashton kutcher boycott (I don't watch his movies anyway) and I'm not going to unfollow him on twitter (don't follow him) but I'm not going to give him props for an ill-conceived response to internet trolls.
- Richard Lawler
Rasheen - I think this whole thread says more about the emotions tied to the N word than it does about his point. Though I agree with you. It is hard to be sophisticated in 140 characters. There isn't space for nuance. You have just enough room to poke someone in the eye with your words and that's about it.
- Andrew
Just to stir things up, I've often pondered the strive for gay rights as something equivalent to that of the Civil Rights movement in the 60's to which many black folk have summarily dismissed and admonished. This might be the wrong thread to discuss that, though.
- Derrick
rahsheen, i disagree. there have been very clear points as to why some people disagree with this "comparison" and/or analogy. no one's denying he didn't perhaps have the right motive in mind. what some people are saying is that it just wasn't necessary to use as the word fag or gay are insults/derogatory statements that have enough power to stand on their own. why use the "N" word and not some other racial epithet? just seems out of place
- Cee Bee
One more time: The n-bomb is a word that needs to die a trillion deaths - regardless of whose mouth it's coming out of. If someone can say it freely while making a point, they can also say it freely in other contexts, too
- Mona Nomura
It's all about the context. I personally don't drop the n-bomb cause i look at it as being disrespectful. I totally agree the word needs to go. However rappers tend to use it in a different context than I would.
- ЯIИGҜIИG
Agreed, Andrew. The trees are definitely blocking the forest here.
- Rahsheen
Context? A term created as a derogatory term, remains derogatory, no matter the "context". I don't believe you can use the "n-word" in any case. All this once again points to the huge social emphasis (and sickness) on using purile labels to divide and dehumanize sections of humanity.
- Mo Kargas
I agree about the other terms, but "gay"... isn´t that different ? I mean it used to mean happy as opposed to the other terms´ original meanings if any. I wouldn´t think twice about saying that a friend of mine (who is gay) is gay (if it was any of the third person´s business that is). PS! I´m not a native English speaker.
- ɯɥøq sɐɯoɥʇ
Cee Bee, you're missing the entire point. "fag" and "gay" do NOT have any power to some people. They are the same as "stupid" and "dork". The point of the tweet was to draw a comparison that even the most moronic of people could understand. You wouldn't call someone a "nigger" just because they did something silly or stupid or that you didn't like. Maybe you know better, but MOST people do not.
- Rahsheen
Thomas, I think they're talking about using "gay" in describing something as lame, wack, or stupid, not in the same-sex coupling, or even happy and good-spirited way. (And your English is awesome.)
- Derrick
Lndsay - Rasheen said he gave him a pass. I don't give him a pass. He didn't need to say it, or even bring it up, so I don't see any problem with question his usage of the word. There's a million different things he could have said or done, and he picked that one, if someone wants to call him on it, that's completely their choice. I have no idea why anyone would think that his response was the best way to address that comment, I certainly don't agree with that viewpoint.
- Richard Lawler
Derrick: Ah.. like how they call stupid things "Norwegian" in Minnesota ? ;) No, I see. Well, then there are lots of such words used in derogatory ways. You can´t just list three words, you just shouldn´t be derogatory of sexuality, ethnicity, etc. whichever way. But if you do, I agree, it _does_ make you look like an idiot.
- ɯɥøq sɐɯoɥʇ
i don't feel i'm missing any point at all here. some people who drop racially incendiary words don't know the power in them either. this touches on a wider issue than mere context. to me it's about one word not having anything to do with another as per the original discussion. in my eyes, he ain't bridging the gap of equality by using "nigger" as a way to combat people from dropping a word like "fag." the two don't have any relation in this argument
- Cee Bee
I would like to see any of you put across the same point Ashton has without using the word "nigger". This thread alone proves why no other word quite works. His tweet would have been ignored.
- Rahsheen
OMG EPIC FAIL I love the twitter diarrhea from celebs, thank you white & straight moron!
- sofarsoShawn
Exactly Rahsheen. Reading the reactions in this discussion, he chose very effective words. Maybe in some years, hopefully people will get this pissed off for using any derogatory word. IMO, he was very efficient at making a point that everyone would understand in 140 characters.
- Rodfather
I am the only one who is bothered by his use of 'u'? The rest of it was fine! How is 'nigger' any less acceptable of a term than 'gay' to discuss?
- fn (fairnymph)
Yeah, the U makes me cringe. I think the difference is that he is using the n word as a point of comparison. But he's using that U sincerely and thinks that it is the correct way to talk to humans.
- Andrew
And of course someone is one word not two
- sofarsoShawn
*sigh* Sweet Baby Jesus...
- Rahsheen
SEE! Way better reasons to hate on Ashton. I think what most annoys me about 'u' (in addition to it being a pet peeve) is that he types 'you' later in the same sentence! It's not even consistently lazy! So it almost seems contrived, like he's trying to be 'hip' or something. As for nigger...why the fuck is 'the n word' so offensive but other derogatory terms are okay? What gives race a special blasphemy-level rating?
- fn (fairnymph)
@fairynympho & further as equitable as calling someone gay or fag, seriously qualitatively different
- sofarsoShawn
I think it's interesting when people who aren't black, question, or even tell black people when they can and can't be offended. I don't agree with his entire concept of comparing offensiveness, it's a stupid approach to take from the beginning.
- Richard Lawler
richard, i'm with you on many levels here.
- Cee Bee
sofar - why? Richard - I'm not gay either, so I have an equal relationship to blackness and gayness. Well, I'm more gay than I am black, so maybe not *exactly* but you get my point. Regardless, I'm not talking about how the people described by such terms feel - I'm talking about general acceptance of such terms.
- fn (fairnymph)
fn - I don't know how you'd gauge general acceptance of such terms, since what people do and say in public, and what they think, or do and say in private or in different social circles can be very different things, plus it varies so greatly depending on what group of people you're talking about.
- Richard Lawler
Like I keep saying: if a person can use that word freely - even to make a point, they are saying it in other contexts, too. Period.
- Mona Nomura
@fn gay/fag have to do with sexual orientation & at times are acceptable to use as the community is empowering the usage much the same way as "queer, however the other has a clear racial historical background that is much more severe and not of that sort, @Lindsey nope they're allowed to say the n word, but the equity issue remains
- sofarsoShawn
Matthew, really? So we only have to complain about his grammar! Richard - What you say is true. Also, I'd like to point out that no one said blacks can or cannot be offended by anything, or gays, or whatever group. And I still think that either you think some things are okay to 'derogatise', or none/all.
- fn (fairnymph)
ai... bet you yanks get funny looks when us brits say "gis a fag" ;o) meaning a smoke!! ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
I think it's a very powerful statement, and thus will probably resonate with many people. As someone else stated, he have worded it more eloquently, but fewer people would have absorbed it.
- fn (fairnymph)
Seriously, Mona? How can you make that assumption? I want to pick a word that's really BAD in order to show people how disgusting they're being. I want a word that just about anyone with any sense would find offensive. What word do I pick?
- Rahsheen
@Rob it gets me hot
- sofarsoShawn
I'm not sure about the some/all question, but I did think some of the responses here indicated that people shouldn't be offended by his use of the terms he used, because of the reasons behind it, and that's not the kind of process I can get behind. I don't like comparing offenses because for most people it isn't a clearly defined line of what/when/who they care about offending, or how they'd react to perceived slights.
- Richard Lawler
I used the word 'nigger' in scrabble, once. Am I racist?
- fn (fairnymph)
Richard, from what I see most of the people saying he made his point, *are* black. Rahsheen, Cecily, me...But no one here has told you not to be offended, okay?
- Anika
You're someone I wouldn't play scrabble with again, but clearly that's not a problem for you.
- Richard Lawler
Shawn, saying the gay community is empowering usage of gay/fag/queer is the same as saying the black community is empowering usage of nigger. I think this is where the problem is. Nobody seems to get the fact that what Ashton said is the absolute truth. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe an actual gay person will step in and correct me.
- Rahsheen
lol @sofarsoshawn ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
@Rasheen no it's not saying the same thing
- sofarsoShawn
rahsheen.. I agree with you.. he said it right, with max impact.. thats WHY he said it that way ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
I didn't say I was offended Anika, I said you don't speak for me, and I don't like the idea that anyone, black or not, would or could give out a "pass", there's a difference.
- Richard Lawler
Seriously, Richard? IT'S A VALID WORD.
- fn (fairnymph)
There are lots of valid words that I wouldn't put down on a scrabble board, but clearly we play the game differently. This is exactly my point, you can decide what words you're going to use in your daily life, and I can decide how I'm going to react to them.
- Richard Lawler
Richard, no one said that they were speaking for you either. But I wouldn't play Scrabble with fairnymph either. Ugh.
- Anika
What about Scrabulous?
- sofarsoShawn
it might be a valid word for a scrabble match between you and your buddies, but i doubt you'd be using it in a friendly scrabble game at an NAACP meeting. get real
- Cee Bee
Wow. You can learn a lot about people from topics such as these. Scrabble? Really? WOW.
- Mona Nomura
Anything in the scrabble dictionary is game, as far as I am concerned. And other than that one time, it's not word I've ever used. I don't know that I've ever said it aloud, so I resent the assumption that it's 'part of my daily life'. Go project onto someone else.
- fn (fairnymph)
If you can drop it on a Scrabble board, who knows where else you could be dropping it - just saying.
- Mona Nomura
ain't no one projecting when you're the one who openly admits to giving that word legitimacy by sharing with us that you've used it in damn scrabble game. you know you sound real dunce-like, right?
- Cee Bee
How often do you use the word 'xi' in daily life, Mona? That's some seriously irrational reasoning.
- fn (fairnymph)
Mona, apparently she uses it only in her head. :/
- Anika
in a scrabble game = in your daily life. I don't have to project anything. You're not concerned with other players considering what you're doing offensive, which is completely your right. I have no problem with it, but I wouldn't be in that game.
- Richard Lawler
Clearly it is in your vocabulary, if you use it in Scrabble. Just like how Ashton used it in his Tweet.
- Mona Nomura
Words used in Scrabble are quite different then the words you speak to others in everyday life; whatever gets you points
- sofarsoShawn
I'm pretty much just going to agree with everything Rah and Lindsey D said in this thread.
- Bec Rowe @d0tski
see the quote marks around the words. i can see where he's coming from. should he of said it?? probably not. but it got his message across.
- Terry O'Fee
Mona, there is a difference between 'this is something I know is a word' and 'this is a word I commonly use'. If you don't see that, there's no help for you.
- fn (fairnymph)
Remember when everyone was looking forward to the open and frank discussions about race? Let's stop inferring, guessing what people are thinking, remember our backgrounds make us unaware of how things affect others, and let the discussion continue without judging the participants per a few lines of text.
- Michael W. May
Oh good lord. I've also used CUNT. Do I hate my own sex, now? Wtf, people.
- fn (fairnymph)
I never said commonly, I said it is in your vocabulary. I know the word exists but it is not included in my vocabulary. That is why you are beyond help. :)
- Mona Nomura
you know what? completely off topic, i can understand why people hate these words but haven't got any problems with someone using the c word (not to another female of course) but say objects or whatever...
- Terry O'Fee
south park - NAGGERS!!!
- Terry O'Fee
Mona, if you know what the word means, it's just as much in your vocabulary as mine. Anika, I resent your implication. Why is okay to attack me - for being honest - but it's a crime of the nth degree to use a valid word in a game?
- fn (fairnymph)
If you want to get technical, the Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary defines "A vocabulary" as "all the words known and used by a particular person". I certainly know the word but I do not use it. Therefore, it is not in my vocabulary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- Mona Nomura
Clearly, your restraint in Scrabble makes you superior, Mona.
- fn (fairnymph)
The word NIGGER has never done any good for anyone as far as I can tell. If the shear disgust brought about by the use of it could jar someone into being more respectful to people different from them, I'm all for it. If you feel like the simple act of using the word in any form or fashion is offensive, I guess you'd like to bury it. I think burying it runs counter to actually resolving the issues around it. I'm black and people trying to forget about the word Nigger kinda pisses me off.
- Rahsheen
I do not need to exercise restraint, since the word is not in my vocabulary, fn - which is my point. Rah - comprehension and utilization are two different things. I never said bury it. I am saying it should not be in people's vocabularies.
- Mona Nomura
what indication is there that the use of the word did jar anyone into being more respectful of the people around them?
- Richard Lawler
Rah, I've been lurking, reading this comment stream and had a similar thought. Burying the word, forgetting it, ignoring it etc... doesn't seem like the right answer.
- mikepk
To clarify: because certain words are omitted from my vocabulary, it means I am burying, forgetting, or ignoring?
- Mona Nomura
None, Richard, but it did spark a discussion about using "fag" and "gay" as derogatory terms and how that might be as offensive as calling someone a "nigger". There are over 100 comments here. Mona, if no one is ever allowed to say or print the word, it has officially been buried. You seem to imply that anyone using it is doing something wrong. Maybe I'm reading incorrectly.
- Rahsheen
Sanctimonious faux political correctness has really gotten out of control with some of you. So, what about words like "rape", "murder" or "slave"? If I use the word rape in scrabble does that mean I'm advocating rape? Wow, I can't figure out who'd like this thread more, Aldous Huxley or George Orwell.
- Anthony Citrano
This conversation makes my head hurt. There's offshoots about race, language, etiquette, sexuality, and on and on. The focus has been on "the n-bomb" or "nigger" if you can handle it. Yet so little has focused on the original point -- that "the f bomb" and "g bomb" when used to hurt should be treated with the same derision. Bigotry of all stripes should not be tolerated.
- Jason Toney
To that end, i'm now mad at Ashton for using a pejorative to describe simple-minded folk.
- Jason Toney
Like I keep saying (LOL) if a person can use it to make a point, it means it is in their vocabulary, which means they can use it in any which way and form. I am not saying it needs to be ignored, but taught to all of the American people - like the way Hilary Swank did in the movie Freedom Fighters. Once we comprehend the implications of the word, I should hope people have common sense, empathy, and understanding of humanity to make the choice right for them. For someone to say "I know what the word implies
- Mona Nomura
...but I am not racist since I didn't use it in racist form." is a load of crap to me.
- Mona Nomura
++++ Jason
- fn (fairnymph)
+Jason
- Rodfather
I don't think sparking a discussion = jarring people into being more respectful. I think the discussion that's been sparked has simply illustrated how most people justify their stances, but they don't suddenly change them because of some new comparison.
- Richard Lawler
This thread is too long and meandering. Maybe I'm being repetitive. Are you saying that Ashton just took this as an opportunity to say "nigger" for no apparent reason? Also, I still haven't seen anyone rephrase his tweet in a manner equally powerful without using "The N Word"
- Rahsheen
That is why racism will never die in this country. People are always making excuses for themselves and each other.
- Mona Nomura
" it means it is in their vocabulary, which means they can use it in any which way and form" - Mona, this is the point at which all logic leaks out of your brain.
- fn (fairnymph)
I hate the phrase "the n-word". I believe Ashton used the word properly and effective. otherwise, this thread wouldn't have so many comments.
- jbrotherlove
Mona N., I'd argue that when the words of intolerance no longer hold power over us, when their usage can no longer put people in their place or invoke fear or images of pain and hate is when the bigotry of language dies. I, however, would never presume to know what's in a person's heart just because they used a word. Their actions and intent -- the content of their character, if you will -- is how I judge.
- Jason Toney
The problem with making the word so super taboo that you can't use it in any context is you give it that much more power for people who do use it maliciously. STILL, using it in such a public manner/place is a pretty shortsighted thing to do. Though you will note that it did get attention..As far as people hating Ashton and Demi being on Twitter. Thats ridiculous. They are just having fun with a technology that we all enjoy. Why should them being famous prevent them from that? Don't like don't follow em.
- Joe "Funkasaurus" Pierce
But words are powerful. It's how we communicate, how we represent ourselves, and how we empower ourselves and each other. Knowledge, the sentences we construct, the words that come out of our mouths is the one thing people can not take away from us. Us being you, me, everyone. To know the implications, the connotations, and comprehending what a word connotes is something that applies to all words across the board. How do I know what is in a person's heart? I judge by the words that come out a person's mouth
- Mona Nomura
Mona, but the thing about words is there is inflection and meaning behind them. If we make a word so powerful that we can't even use it in an explanatory manner then we make the word more powerful. I'm not arguing that the word should be used more(or publicly for that matter). But I am arguing that there are occasions where it can be used without evil intent.
- Joe "Funkasaurus" Pierce
And fn (fairnymph)? If you can easily drop it on Scrabble for points, how is one to know you haven't easily dropped it for any other reason? I am extremely curious to see how asking that question is illogical. Joe - how do we know that? How do we determine a person's intent? We can only tell a person's intent by the words that come out of their mouths.
- Mona Nomura
Guess I need a lobotomy then, Mona, to scrub those bad nasty words from my vocabulary and make me a better citizen. I'm reminded of an old Boingo tune, "Controller"...
- Anthony Citrano
Calm down, Anthony. I am just trying to understand how words are OK to use in some instances but not ok in others.
- Mona Nomura
That doesn't work, Mona. It doesn't work because some people do not truly understand the words they use. Nigger, Fag, and Gay are 3 perfect examples of this. How many people say stuff is "gay" without realizing what they're doing? I'm quite positive you're aware of the debate about the word Nigger. You can't judge someone on their actual words because you don't know what those words mean *to them*.
- Rahsheen
Intent is in the context. To use Ashton as an example he is not calling anyone the name, nor is he using it in a derogatory sense. He is using it in an analogy because we all know how powerful an insult it is, so now we know he considers the others equally as bad. Should he have used the word that way? probably not, but the intent behind it wasn't meant for anything more than shock and comparison.
- Joe "Funkasaurus" Pierce
This is funny LOLing
- sofarsoShawn
Also I should point out, most of what I'm talking about in my feelings applies more to spoken word where you can hear inflection. Written word is a tougher nut to crack.
- Joe "Funkasaurus" Pierce
Mona, I love ya, but you are so wrong here... judging people by such narrow guides and small amounts of evidence, if you will, without knowing intent, without allowing for differences in starting point perspectives, make it difficult for people of different worlds to ever understand each other.
- Michael W. May
I think Ashton made TWO points. The first was that using gay or fag in a derogatory manner is unacceptable. The second was that it is unacceptable to call someone a nigger. I have no problem with this. As far as I'm concerned, he doesn't EVEN need my pass, your pass, or the hall monitor's pass. He goes; he collects two hundred dollars.
- MiniMage
I think Ashton's a closeted gay, and his dumbass tweet failed to quash any rumours except verify his stupidity
- sofarsoShawn
"And fn (fairnymph)? If you can easily drop it on Scrabble for points, how is one to know you haven't easily dropped it for any other reason? I am extremely curious to see how asking that question is illogical. " I already answered this, but apparently you can't read. There are many words that are used only in scrabble. XI was one example.
- fn (fairnymph)
Ok, I read through all of this and I don't understand slamming him, either. I'd explain my POV for defending it but a ton of other people have defended him well enough. It was done with good intentions. In the words of MMABB - He goes.
- Shawn Farner
There are way too many comments here to keep up - so LOL @ you for calling me illogical for making assumptions, when you are telling me I can't read. Relax, this isn't personal. So just to understand, you are excusing your use of the n-word because it was for Scrabble. That's funny... and kind of sad.
- Mona Nomura
what about a play, or rephrasing from a film? what if you're trying to explain to someone a part of blazing saddles??
- Terry O'Fee
@fn I agree there's a clear separation as to what gets you points in a game & as to what you do and speak in real life; to speak otherwise is wrong. I love Halo yet don't go on massacres too frequently. And thereby as to calling you a racist is utterly offensive.
- sofarsoShawn
Ashton's use of the word nigger was the most succinct possible. If anyone wants to think he, and now me, and others in this conversation are racist for actually spelling it out instead of using some 4th grade code word, thats their right. As it is mine to think that anyone who would have such an opinion is an ignorant fool. Of course you don't call people any of those names. But to say even using them in reference makes you a racist/homophobe/immoral person just really makes me sick.
- Tony Miller
I wonder. Using that logic, when the word is used in a movie, is it just the actor uttering the lines automatically a racist or is it everyone else involved in the movie as well for being complicit in it?
- Tony Miller
shan, your argument doesn't hold up. There are social mores that -- while not cheating -- people usually don't break, even playing a game, and if you do, people judge you based on them. it happens all the time.
- Richard Lawler
well example - blazing saddles. anyone who has ever watched that film knows mel's having a go at racism, but the amount of times that word is used in the film...
- Terry O'Fee
I did not and have not called anyone racist - those are conclusions you drew, Tony. My point is, from the very beginning of this thread: if you can speak those words in any context, how are we supposed to know when and how you choose to speak those words? I don't understand why people are getting so upset.
- Mona Nomura
There isn't logic to the rules regarding the n word. It's emotional. That doesn't mean it is less valid, but it's important that you don't expect it to rational.
- Andrew
i'm fine, i'm genuinely curious about the whole conversation. used within context the word should not be shunned, but going up to someone pretending to use "ganster" words and dropping it is in poor taste...
- Terry O'Fee
I'm not racist, and I hate the word, but in Ashton's case, he was trying to make a point. Maybe it wasn't the smartest thing in the world, but he did get his point across. I think people, we need to stop getting upset over this. Ashton is not a racist and he wasn't using the word in a derogatory way. I'm following Ashton on Twitter and I missed this until now. Sometimes we need to be blunt like this to make a point.
- Molly Song ;)
The power of any word is determined solely by the listener.
- Mattb4rd
have a listen to greydon square's song "the n word" and listen to how he uses the word . he has a whole other feeling for the word (he doesn't like the word, but he uses it to call a certain type of black people..)
- Terry O'Fee
Why do you need to know when and how someone chooses to speak the words? What does that have to do with anything if you don't plan to draw conclusions about those people?
- Rahsheen
False, Matt. People need to take responsibility for the words that come out of their mouths. Accountability, period.
- Mona Nomura
gay != nigger
- Chris Brakebill
" There are social mores that -- while not cheating -- people usually don't break, even playing a game, and if you do, people judge you based on them" This is a good filter, I feel. I absolutely judge people who feel whipped by social mores.
- fn (fairnymph)
No, Mona, you didn't specifically call any one person a racist. Of course I didn't mention you, nor anyone else in my statement. The fact that you concluded I was says more about you than I. Another conclusion I see is that anyone said that its just fine to use derogatory words in ANY context. No one has said that. I think it has been said that to use it as an example of a word that is definately not ok to call anyone, showing that the other words are just as not ok, makes sense in context. One of the few.
- Tony Miller
What of the accountability of the offended party Mona? Respond if you must, to words that offend you, but don't react. To do otherwise is to fertilize the very ground that the seeds of racism are sewn in and to relinquish the power of the self into the control of the offender.
- Mattb4rd
@Mona I am calm, I'm just saying your position - that the mere presence of a word in one's vocabulary necessarily imbues the beholder with all of that word's social sins - is a strange ‘guilt-by-knowledge’ view that I've never quite heard before.
- Anthony Citrano
So if you feel he shouldn't have used the N word because it was offensive, then what non-offensive word would have been suitable in its place, and conveyed the same powerful message? Smurf? Sorry, but any word that would have had the same punch would have been just as offensive to someone somewhere, and we'd be right back at the beginning.
- April Russo
You don't think there's any way to have a powerful message without using those words? In 140 characters? Really?
- Richard Lawler
*blink blink* WTF? *sigh* What a mess ... I'm with Rah on this one.
- BEX
Call me black and white (or crazy) but I have seen and experienced too many forms of all kinds of racism and bigotry to know that if a person can easily drop certain words or references to make a point, or earn points in a game, who knows in what contextual form they also use it in. What we see and what goes on behind doors are two very separate things.
- Mona Nomura
And you have no idea what goes on behind those doors, so why are you pre-judging people before you even know their intentions?
- Rahsheen
Because the words you choose represents who you are?
- Mona Nomura
a lot of it comes from towns and where you live as well. i know a lot of people who don't use that word (australia) but similar. im not saying thats right for them to use it but people do it as reflex, if they've heard it from the family and peers all their life. especially in country communities like where i grew up. like is said, i dont agree but im not about to completely disown someone because of an off word of comment they might say while out...
- Terry O'Fee
But more than the words you choose is how & why.you use them.
- April Russo
The answer to your question, Mona, would be only that person knows. And maybe someone who hangs around them constantly. So if you don't know how someone acts "behind doors" its cool to assume the worst about them? Especially when the act the assumption is based on was designed to have the exact opposite effect? In this case reduce the incidence of derogatory name calling in general?
- Tony Miller
You think so? If someone was hanging out with your kids and out of the blue brought up child molestation, you'd think, man I'm glad he's comfortable discussing such normally uncomfortable topics. You wouldn't think that was kind of odd to just be on the tip of the tongue? Not even a little? I wouldn't ever say I'm not judgemental, but I don't think i'm unreasonable.
- Richard Lawler
So, Mona. If someone calls his friends "gay", then he thinks his friends are all homosexual? If I'm black and call people "nigger", I think they're racially inferior to me or something? Don't you call your friends all types of stupid crap? Should a 3rd party judge you for it as you choose to judge others? On their words alone?
- Rahsheen
I am not a mind reader, so I take the words that come out of one's mouth as is. I do not analyze (nor take the time to analyze). Words mean things so say waht you mean and mean what you say. Excusing a person by saying: "Oh, it's ok because he didn't use it in XX way" is a load of crap.
- Mona Nomura
I think what he said had a lot more punch & power than what I said here: http://friendfeed.com/e... And I think his choice of words conveyed how offensive misusing "gay" and "fag" can be, much more effectively than my statement did.
- April Russo
So, what did he mean by saying "nigger"?
- Rahsheen
Richard, would I think it a little odd? Yes. Would I ask them not to bring up the subject again in front of my 5 year old? Most likely. My 15 year old? I would depend on the point they were trying to make but still on the likely side. Would I automatically think they are themselves a child molestor, punch them in the face and make sure they never came around again. Not unless what they said was something along the lines of them enjoying it.
- Tony Miller
I don't know what you mean by what did he mean, but by him using the n-word, proved himself to be an idiot - just like he stated in that Tweet.
- Mona Nomura
@Richard you've digressed from the truth, by playing a game with shooting I'm not offending "social "mores" as you call it until I go out & shoot someone as to your claim. Same with using the word "nigger" in Scrabble despite what it means it's a game not REAL LIFE where I would not use it nor go out and massacre people a la a video to game to suggest as much really is the definition of idiocy.
- sofarsoShawn
Mona, words do indeed mean things. Sentences doubly so. If I use the phrase "load of crap" can one assume with confidence that I have irritable bowel syndrome just by the use of the phrase, or would it depend on which sentence I used it in?
- Tony Miller
I think that last point is pretty far beyond anything anyone here is suggesting, I think it's only natural to judge people by the topics they bring up and the words they feel comfortable using, and when. I think it was a stupid choice of kutcher's to use those words to get that message across, and I don't see the apparent necessity some have cited in defending him. I don't have to think he's a racist, or even a closeted one, to (continue to) think of him as an actor only and not a wise social activist.
- Richard Lawler
Aight, I think I'm done here. There are just too many comments to scroll through and I don't think we're getting anywere. In parting, I'll point out that I still haven't seen anyone illustrate the point Ashton was trying to make with the same power he was able to put into it. Catch U on the fflipside...
- Rahsheen
Does he need to make that analogy? I said before, I don't think comparing offenses is a good approach to take at all. If using an analogy is some requirement, I don't think putting the words out there makes it more effective, only more controversial, and could give the person a perceived out for their behavior.
- Richard Lawler
I define myself by my scrabble words, FYI. In case anyone had ANY doubt. If you want, you can see a game immortalised: http://fairnymph.livejournal.com/9254...
- fn (fairnymph)
I can see if he meant "calling every black person a nigger" but to say it like he did makes him "borderline racist" a little
- Outsanity
This conversation is starting to sound like a broken record. *lol*
- Molly Song ;)
But you have to admit, only on FriendFeed can you talk about 'hot topics' without people resorting to personal attacks. LOVE this place!
- Mona Nomura
I was going to post something, but Rah pretty much covered all my bases.
- Rob H.
that's what i'm sayin richard. why is an analogy even necessary? people ain't really that dumb. they understand the negativity of a word like "fag." it stands on its own without having to pick another negative word to compare it to. could've just said "can we just get it clear, calling someone "gay" or "fag" is derogatory. U look like an idiot when you do it." that would've been just as effective. instead this dude tried pulling something out his pocket that had no business in his moonlighting work
- Cee Bee
as a sociologist on twitter. as if his use and comparison with the word "nigger" was the ONLY way to get one's point across in this situation. it was a lazy and base way to get his point across. you don't use one base form of expression to nullify another no matter what the context.
- Cee Bee
But then the use of the word "idiot" could have offended someone somewhere that is or knows someone that is mentally retarded, putting us right back to the beginning again, right where we are with his use of the N word.
- April Russo
c'mon april be honest. you know that's a hell of a reach
- Cee Bee
Why? I do know people that are parents of mentally retarded children that find that word offensive. So it's not that far of a reach.
- April Russo
Cee Bee, if this has never been your experience then I envy you. But there are still a lot of people, have been for years, that call people gay or fag in a way meant to convey stupid or weak. And since gay and fag have unfortunately also been used as a pejorative against homosexuals, it ends up sounding like a backhanded way of equating all the terms. So while no one should be called stupid or weak, those words have less social scorn than the former, which are closer to the word that Shall Not Be Named.
- Tony Miller
This is like epicly EPIC <;o) love it!
- sofarsoShawn
OMG @J yeha someone didn't read the linked article...
- sofarsoShawn
"porch monkey. I'm taking it back!!!" ;)
- Terry O'Fee
@Hutch Thanks for the link. Interesting article.
- Anne Bouey
Thanks Anne - it's from 2002, but it speaks to a lot of the eradicationist arguments seen here.
- Hutch Carpenter
There were eradicationist arguments here? I musta missed them.
- Mona Nomura
I don't understand how you can ask me to rewrite a statement I feel is flawed from the beginning, in someone elses voice and somehow seem to you like it has the same "power." I think in 140 characters you can say you don't approve of that behavior, and it has all the power necessary. You don't have to say anything else to get your point across.
- Richard Lawler
That's not in any way what I said, I made clear what I felt was flawed with his statement earlier.
- Richard Lawler
Seeing as how only one of them is at all relevant to what I just said, I think you know which one.
- Richard Lawler
How is using a comparison in order to show a sense of scale not a useful device? To me, hes basically saying " I know you probably use that word all the time to describe people you don't think are macho enough for you, but its really just as bad as one of the most offensive words our society has." Only more concisely and in a way that drives the point home a hell of a lot better.
- Tony Miller
You're sure the person he's talking to considers any of those words among the worst our society has, and unacceptable to use? How can you compare them if you don't know how the other person feels about them at all?
- Richard Lawler
This thread hurt my head.
- Erin @queenofspain
You're right about that. Which is why I said "To me..". Which is why I also think it was better to be a bit more blunt about it. And really, the only thing I am against is the notion that if you use the word in any context whatsoever, that you are also likely to use it as a racial slur as well. That you should be shunned and ridiculed for daring to type out the word to begin with.
- Tony Miller
Also, I think that thinking calling someone gay is derogatory is derogatory.
- Anthony Citrano
@anthony you're gay :)
- sofarsoShawn
"ghey" is still perfectly acceptable, right?
- Andrew Currie
I started following him based on this tweet.
- Jason
I unfollowed him based on this tweet. He's a dolt.
- Mattb4rd
People who think poorly about Ashton because of this tweet are far too sensitive. Notice the quotes around "nigger" and note that he's trying to make a point about use of derogatory words. Note that he understands his followers because many of his fans fall into the set of teen/tweens who call everything "gay" and use the word "fag" without remorse or a second thought. Good on him.
- EricaJoy
Exactly, Erica. it's like when I called Ashton “retarded”. I definitely did not mean to disparage retarded people.
- Anthony Citrano
make and bake: S'mores Cookies - http://makeandbakeblog.blogspot.com/2009...
Marcia Conner, Melissa, Jorin Cowley and 9 other people liked this
via RKB.
- Jason Toney
from Bookmarklet
What is 'What to do with that bag of marshmallows over the microwave?", Alex.
- Anika
Looking for FC.com editor: passionate about the intersection of social
media and journalism. can spit out story ideas about innovation, the web, social media, sustainability, and other core FC topics - and make them reality. Work w/me (Dir, SM), Robert Scoble (FCTV), and Ed Sussman (Pres, Digital)
Andrew Feinberg, Dave Martin, George Kelly and 7 other people liked this
Alright, we're hiring! I'll be in Fast Company's Offices in NYC tomorrow.
- Robert Scoble
Wish this were my beat - sounds like a great opportunity
- Maria Niles
i sort of forgot an email addy for people to contact me. that'd be lynne@fastcompany.com. send the resumes in. we're looking for someone with a strong editorial voice.
- Lynne d Johnson
i nominate hank williams. unless he already has a good gig.
- jeneane sessum
Sweet focus...need anymore reporters on that beat? http://racetalkblog.com/
- Kyle Austin
Is this serious? I'm game. Check your inbox.
- Andrew Feinberg
repost: we're looking for an editor on fc.com http://friendfeed.com/e... (senior or executive level). know any candidates? lynne@fastcompany.com
Shey and Marcia Conner liked this
Drafting forthcoming post on RWW here, tentatively titled "Five Ways to Use Social Media to Reach People Who Don't Use Social Media" plz leave feedback if u like!
Isha (Marysia), Marcia Conner, Clay Newton and 6 other people liked this
Final post is up here: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive... 1. Develop relationships with people who bridge that gap inside other organizations
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
You may want to target senior executives, older people or others who just aren't very likely to read your blog posts, Twitter messages, etc. but chances are - those people have co-workers, family and others in their lives who would. By adding value to the lives of less senior people inside organizations, you can gain mindshare with the people in whose interest it is to make good recommendations to their superiors at work.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Similarly, many mainstream journalists now participate in social media conversations for their research. Making yourself known as a topical expert to them online can help increase your visibility when it's time to write a story off-line.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Here's a recommendation we offered to one non-profit organization that we often use as an example now for others.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Let's say you work locally on a particular issue and you're interested in getting traditional press coverage. One way to pursue this is to subscribe to a feed for national media outlets, filter that feed for keywords related to your topic of interest and keep your eye out for breaking news or important topics on the national level. You might even set up an RSS to SMS alert.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Then, when a story comes out in the New York Times about water quality, food transport costs, or whatever your issue of interest is, you can contact local press about it and say "I don't know if you've seen this national coverage on this topic [they probably haven't because you've automated watching for it] but if you're interested in a local angle, our Executive Director/CEO/[or insert more down to earth person] is a good expert source for a local perspective."
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
You don't want to do that too often, but occasional and appropriate use of this tactic should be appreciated by the press you reach out to. It's mutually beneficial for both parties and could help you get that coverage in traditional media that's more likely to be read by your off-line target market. I honestly believe that even the smallest organization could grow its mindshare in mainstream markets quickly using tactics like this.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
******Readers and Friends - feel free to jump right in anywhere here with comments!!
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
What if there's a way to do some "backwards compatibility" thing? Good chance people don't use social media, but use email. If there was some way to pipe communications to them in a form they recognize...Just thinking out loud.
- Hao Chen
Tools to use for these tactics: For general participation and visibility among the social media users that do exist in your area of interest, check out Twellow.com for a directory of Twitter users by industry, do some searches on FriendFeed.com and find out what the top blogs in your area of interest are using the methods described in our post "Six Ways to Find Top Blogs in Any Niche." Just participating with like minded people in this space will move you up on their list for biz dev and marketing.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
If you're not familiar with RSS feeds, start with this introduction: RSS in Plain English. FeedRinse.com is one of the easiest to use feed filtering services. Feed filtering is also available inside Zaptxt.com, one of our favorite RSS to IM/Email alert systems. See also Pingie.com, a new alert service we've been using and Alerts.com an even newer one we wrote about this week. http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
2. Use Web 2.0 Tools to Learn About Real Life Public Events
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
MK, it seems to me that you need some demographics - who's the target? What do non-social media users need to either make the leap or improve their experience with traditional medias? "Getting edge" on information doesn't seem like news to people who already know that they should be using social media. Did that make sense? If the audience (and I can only assume RWW has an audience like this) is media savvy, then what's needed is a discussion of viral and/or "grandma emailed me a lolcat" strategems...
- J-P Voillequé
Hmmmm....I think I follow what you're saying J-P and will take it into consideration. :) thx
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
There may or may not be relevant events in your field that are attended by non-social media users and are listed on sites like Upcoming.org and Eventful.com. It's worth a look and worth subscribing to the RSS feeds for those searches.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
More likely, perhaps, is that your local newspaper's website has those kinds of events listings. Trade associations, nonprofit groups and other kinds of sites often have events listings as well. What has this got to do with social media tools? You can subscribe in the same RSS feed reader that you read blogs in to those event listings. All too often there aren't feeds available, but there are tools you can use to create them (see below).
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Tools to use for this tactic: An RSS reader, be it Google Reader, iGoogle, MyYahoo or another - there are lots of options. If events listings aren't being published by RSS, here's what you can do. Find pages where they are listed, scrape a feed using Dapper.net (see how to do this) then filter the feed for keywords related to your industry if need be using a tool like FeedRinse.com or Pipes.Yahoo.com if you feel brave. For example, I just scraped a feed from my local paper's news site event listings,
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
then ran that feed through Yahoo Pipes to filter for tech or startup related events. The end result? A feed that's empty today but could deliver just what I'm looking for later - mainstream events that I can attend after having learned about them using new tools on the web.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
3. Use the Internet to Make Yourself Smarter In Real Life
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
The best way to use social media to reach people who don't use social media is probably just to use social media to kick more ass. You may be the only person in a meeting that reads blogs (unlikely, really) but that doesn't have to be what people notice; the fact that you know more, sooner, about your shared interests (as a result of reading blogs) well will be a big help.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Easier said than done? Check out our recommended tools in this regard:
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Check out our article about how to find the top blogs in any niche http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive... and then combine those sources with the methodology describe in our post How to Find the Weirdest Stuff on the Internet (or the best content on any topic). http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive... We also recommend taking those top sources you identify and turning them into a
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Google Custom Search Engine, which is remarkably easy for even the least technical people to do. Search against those top sources as reference and you'll unearth all kinds of useful knowledge from the archives of your industries online experts. Build your reading list with the tools described in those posts above and you'll be using social media to advance your career and connect more effectively with more non-users of social media.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
4. Make Your Blog an Email Newsletter and Promote it Elsewhere
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Feedburner, Google's RSS publishing service, makes it easy to offer any RSS feed, including the one your blog should publish automatically, as an email newsletter. There are lots of companies that buy AdSense links on Google for links to their websites and blogs for key search terms, your marketing department may write guest editorials in traditional press already and any other traditional marketing campaign can lead people to an "email newsletter" page - really your blog with email subscription.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
If your target audience doesn't read blogs or participate in social networks, they probably do like email. This is an easy thing to do and can prove quite effective for non-technical audiences if framed in a non-threatening way.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
5. Look Harder, Your Audience Probably is Using Social Media You Aren't Aware Of
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
There were 5 billion videos watched on YouTube just by people in the US in July. There are people in your industry using LInkedIn, we guarantee it. Where are people talking about you or your industry online? Check out Kingsly Joseph's Social Media Firehose to find examples http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes... (click the "list" button to see a list view of links). A couple of other places to look include Ask.com's blogsearch, sort by popularity, and the social
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
bookmarking site Delicious, where you can search for and subscribe to the most popular or most recent bookmarked links by keyword. You'll want to use the site in different ways depending on your field. http://delicious.com/popular... may not unearth a lot of resources, but http://delicious.com/tag... looks pretty interesting, for example.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Other ways to read this feed:
