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Mark › Likes
Pundits keep predicting the demise of netbooks but their reasons make no sense (and they're wrong). http://news.bbc.co.uk/2...
Robert Sanchez Jr and Mark liked this
"It's the internet's fault for making us much more multimedia savvy," he said. Uploading and editing still or moving pictures and handling audio all require far more power than the basic netbook offers, he said."
- Mark
Who the hell does video or photo editing on a freaking netbook?!
- Mark
Thanks to @leolaporte for having me on @twit this afternoon. Great show as always.
Mark and Roberto Bonini liked this
Update on CloudPipe work - http://www.scripting.com/stories...
Michael Pinto, Jesse Stay, Jim Connolly and 6 other people liked this
CloudPipe is Dave Winer's approach to compete with PubSubHubbub, using Fat Pings. RSSCloud today does not offer this capability.
- Louis Gray
That's a great news. Soon, RSSCloud will be fully merged into PubSubHubbub and we'll forget about all this politics.
- Julien
It seems ironic that Dave is being bearhugged in reverse by PuSH. But it is definately progress toward comparing on merits rather than other personal criteria.
- Steve Gillmor
Louis, CloudPipe does not compete with PuSH because the protocols serve different purposes. CloudPipe is a client to server protocol and PuSH is a server to server protocol. It's like POP3 and SMTP.
- Gary Burd
Thanks, Gary. Dave's article lists the #1 reason for CloudPipe's updates (especially "fat ping") as being competitive vs. PuSH, and aiding RSSCloud. Hence my comment.
- Louis Gray
Gary, maybe you should explain that to Dave.
- Ken Sheppardson
Conversation for @corvida who laments the days of Twitter old when we actually talked with each other:
Jeremy (on vacation), Jason Huebel, Yan and 14 other people liked this
So, what should we talk about? Personally I think we're just tired of all online socializing.
- Robert Scoble
And normal people do this kind of stuff over on Facebook (I watch my wife talk to her elementary school friends there).
- Robert Scoble
While the "pros" have figured out you can't get paid for doing work online here or on Twitter, so they just put links to their blogs.
- Robert Scoble
"I think we're just tired of all online socializing" I do it every minute of everyday on FriendFeed.
- Johnny Worthington
Twitter isn't that good for conversations. I use Facebook for conversations with my "IRL friends". For social conversations I've recently come back to FriendFeed (it IS better than Twitter when it comes to conversations), Google Talk, Google Reader and in some extent...yes Twitter. But as you said, Twitter has been populated by people that only posts links to their blogs...and often never answer their replies.
- Patrik Johansson
Johnny: the world isn't like you and me. And, anyway, even though you and I do it here, most normal people do it on Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
Most normal people do it on email. Facebook is still a distant 2nd.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Bruce: I don't think so. Almost all of my friends have Facebook (no Twitter, no FriendFeed, no Google Reader, no Flickr, no Last.fm etc etc). And most of them check their email once a week, Facebook 3 times a day. I'm talking about personal use here, not work mail.
- Patrik Johansson
Most plans and communication is still happening over SMS and phone calls. I understand I'm not normal. I sat around a table with 9 people last week. Everyone had a computer, 4 had an iPhone, no one knew what Android was, 7 had a Facebook account, 3 had a Twitter account (2 only tweeted less than 5 times) and everyone knew of FriendFeed because of me doing the podcast. We're niche.
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
The elite players are having secret walled off conversations in Google Reader.
- Louis Gray
I agree Johnny. SMS and phone are by far the most popular communication tool. Most people I know know about iPhone but not Android. I don't think that communicate on the web is so big that we think it is.
- Patrik Johansson
Louis: exactly why Google Reader is dead. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Google Reader isn't dead Robert. I've tried to follow your tip, about getting the news from Twitter. It doesn't work. The biggest problem is that the company/website/blog need to have a Twitter account and update it...well, that may be the case in the U.S. But if I want to follow any Swedish newspaper or something, they don't have Twitter...but I can subscribe to their sites through Google Reader. That's why RSS isn't dead, and is still beating Twitter.
- Patrik Johansson
Robert you're awesome for starting this thread. As for your first comment, I'd have to disagree because we're no longer socializing. We're marketing and the shit is about to hit the fan. I can just feel it coming down my Twitter stream.
- Corvida
The (read: my) problem is that with Facebook it's too intimate. People wouldn't understand the things I talk about at home and on a personal level because it's usually race related and people of a different race would feel some sort of way about engaging in such a conversation. Either way, that's not what I want to talk about online.
- Corvida
I use all four things. I use Google Reader for news articles. I use Facebook for communication with Family. I use Twitter for people who are in subject areas that I'm interested in such as farming. I use Friendfeed for discussions (or sometimes arguments).
- Judy Jones
I want to go back to talking and sharing the topics we're all interested in. I want to go back to discussing the cool little gems we find around the web. I don't want to just review them. I want to DISCUSS them. We used to do that a long time ago. Myself, Louis, Steven Hodson, Jeff, Rahsheen, Sarah Perez, Shey, Frederic and a host of other people. We DISCUSSED Friendfeed. We DISCUSSED Twitter. We DISCUSSED RSSmeme which half the world no longer knows or cares about....
- Corvida
We discussed everything topic related and we loved it. We built our own hype instead of getting sucked into major blogs and what the rest of the kool-aid drinking web was saying. WE did that and it felt good. It felt like a community. Now, I really do feel like I'm screaming in a crowded room...and no one really gives a fuck.
- Corvida
Johnny, we're niche, but not invisible. I want to have conversations with people who have related interest. I don't want to talk about dogs, cats, what your kids did. Fuck that, I hate kids, dogs, and (usually) cats. I want good tech conversations 24/7. That's what the old days used to be like. That's the FriendFeed and Twitter I remember instead of all this marketing BS
- Corvida
This thread remember me the reason why I've started following Robert Scoble or Corvida: not because they were famous or glamour or something like that but because they were able to create deep and brilliant conversations...
- maxilprof
Hrm. I think I have to agree with Corvida here. I was attracted to this whole thing by learning about Twitter on her blog, which led me on a journey to becoming a writer for BlackWeb 2.0. Everything has definitely taken a marketing turn that is kinda disturbing. Even those in the field that are not really marketers still have a marketing approach to it all. Twitter, for instance, is mostly a link farm. I think this is part of the reason I got hooked on FF. People were actually discussing stuff here.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Patrik: yes, San Francisco is often two to five years ahead of the rest of the world. For fun I just checked into Feedly again. ALL I saw was stuff I've already seen on Twitter. So, for me (and anyone who cares about the tech industry) Google Reader is showing dramatically less utility than it did a year ago, especially if you've put any time into organizing feeds into lists over on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Rahsheen: funny, I tried to get the rest of the industry over here and failed. Why? Most people don't want to have conversations. Tim O'Reilly, for instance, told me he doesn't have time for that.
- Robert Scoble
I agree Rahsheen. The discussions is what got us going on FriendFeed. Too hard to do them on Twitter. How do we get back to those days people?
- Corvida
But isn't all that discussion just speculation until you get a critical mass and some time behind it? I love what Facebook and Twitter have done for me, but feel a great deal of fatigue after only a couple of years. Talking to people IRL is very attractive these days. We've gotten ahead of ourselves.
- John Kress
John: exactly. Plus, now that blogs have real time conversations thanks to Disqus and Echo we can pimp a URL and have conversations over there.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Yeah it seems that SF is ahead of the rest of the world. For now, I'll use Google Reader for my news source. But sure, if Swedish news, blogs, websites etc. started to use Twitter I may change my mind,
- Patrik Johansson
I remember that, Robert. You used to link FF convo's on Twitter a lot. While you're probably correct that some of the big wigs don't have the time or desire to talk, there are still those of us that enjoy discussion. Am I going to notice that people like Tim aren't present? Absolutely not. Just like I don't expect P. Diddy to take the time out to chat with me when I want to discuss the music industry.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Rahsheen: funny, P Diddy is probably over at MySpace having conversations with his fans. I know a lot of musical groups do that. Why there? Because there's money there. Fans buy music.
- Robert Scoble
Patrik: yeah, eventually you'll see that Twitter takes over the world. Even in France most of the entrepreneurs were on Twitter and the media was talking about it a lot.
- Robert Scoble
Rahsheen: the reason I don't link to FF much anymore is because I can have real time conversations back on my blog now. A year ago I couldn't.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: So when does the big backlash come, and what does it look like? (Online vs real life)?
- John Kress
John: a good percentage of divorces are already mentioning Facebook. How do you know the backlash isn't underway?
- Robert Scoble
Corvida, I don't think there is any turning back. Ashton, Oprah, Brittany, and all their minions have invaded the space. Eben Pagan, Mike Dillard, Steve Kern and the like have all discovered social media and are making money off of it. I think it's a lost cause in that regard...
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Corvida: those conversations have moved over to blogs like those from Louis Gray and Jesse Stay for the large part.
- Robert Scoble
Hrm...I guess most bloggers should be happy about that. There was a time when comment fragmentation and losing the discussion was a serious concern. I wonder what everyone thinks about that now.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Robert: I think the backlash is underway. But, naturally, the whip has a long tail.
- John Kress
Robert: Or a short head in this case.
- John Kress
lol @John. Rahsheen we're happy, but that doesn't mean we didn't adjust to the way things have been for the past 2 years before Disqus and real-time web stuff. Twitter WAS the only real-time web, besides FriendFeed, last year. I like that they've moved back to blogs, but I don't talk about every tech topic that comes to mind on my blog. I like the random tech convo's across the web, where either you're there to participate in the convo or you're not.
- Corvida
True, I can't say that I've caught most of the convo going on on blogs. I have definitely become used to the blogs being discussed on places other than the blog itself. Maybe I need to change my strategy...again.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Rahsheen: Exactly! Plus, I don't want to crowd my blog with too many discussions in one day.
- Corvida
I'd settle for the days of acknowledging one another.
- Kelli Schmith
I don't have conversations on Facebook and I am normal! (as I am not a professional, just a retired Granny) TBH I hate Facebook! Only on there because family asked me to be on there. I'd rather have a conversation on here or a live chat facility. Its better to discuss things on here or in comments on your blogs. I love blogging
- Sandra Large
Robert: you are a couple of years ahead. But you also have a different behavior when it comes to news consumption: we are building feedly for people who have the time to check their favorite websites, topics, brands one or two times a day and want to do it through something that looks like their own personalized magazine. Regarding this discussion I agree that the internet has lost a little bit of something since most people moved to twitter and the conversations on friendfeed dried up.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
RSS is dead? @stu reminds me. Oh, you forget that when bloggers say something is dead they just mean it's not interesting to talk about.
Stuart Miniman, Mark, Alex Scrivener and Roberto Bonini liked this
@marcusbetts that is true but if we both really cared about conversation we would be on FriendFeed and we are not.
ashish, Mark, T. Brent, technopeasant and Akiva Moskovitz liked this
Blog owners: you will want to check out @meebo at 1 pm today because they have something nice. My video will come tonight.
Mark and Iván Abrego liked this
Hey Robert, what would you say your job title was and can you sum up your job in 1 sentence? And please no abstract nonsense ;)
- Mark
His Job title is: Robert Scoble. ;)
- Lee Stacey
Top 5 Overhyped Services of 2009 - http://current.com/items...
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John Wang, Thomas, Mark and 2 other people liked this
RSS for BitTorrent, and other developments - http://www.scripting.com/stories...
Mark, Dan Morrill AKA Techwag, zeroinfluencer and 2 other people liked this
Why are you so interested in helping improve bit torrent? I bet 95% of all bit torrent usage is copyright violation and the rest is "linux distros". hehe.
- Mark
Superfeedr real-time method stats: 73% polling, 26% PubSubHubHub, 1% RSSCloud, 0% SUP: http://blog.superfeedr.com/Real-ti... /via @arjunram
Pierre Arlais, Wayne Sutton, Ken Sheppardson and 18 other people liked this
poor RSSCloud, its almost a rounding error
- Mark
Dave's response http://blog.rsscloud.org/post... (he claims they made the numbers up)
- Mark
Knowing Julien, he didn't make these numbers up.
- David Recordon
The numbers obviously depend on what feeds you're consuming. For example, SUP is enabled on YouTube and Reddit, which are a significant fraction of the feeds on on FriendFeed, but are presumably less common on superfeedr.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul's comment is totally right. I think all this proves that we need to improve our 'communication' around these numbers and how they have been calculated. I will emphasize more on that in the future.
- Julien
And if someone were pulling a lot of WordPress.com feeds then they'd be using RSSCloud (unless of course they were using Superfeedr's PSHB proxy: http://wordpress.superfeedr.com/).
- David Recordon
In a that case, we'd be using RSSCloud to poll... As we actually do for the few wp feeds that we have.
- Julien
Unfortunately PSHB is using Feedeburner numbers and Feedburner enabled PSHB feeds are NOT realtime (for the most part), because of the latency from blog to Feedburner updating. No one cares about the technology, just whether it's realtime or not. And a vast majority of that 26% are not realtime, I'd say.
- Matt Terenzio
I'd also like to see some other aggregators (like Gnip) publish their numbers. Uncorroborated and without volume, it's hard to judge these, even if they are accurate.
- Chris Messina
What matters is how much faster the web is. Not which protcol is a rounding error. Paul and Matt, thanks for bringing this back to reality. And btw, there are millions of sites that achieve their realtime-ness through rssCloud. As Matt says, the Feedburner feeds have a delay built into them that the rssCloud ones don't have. So it's a good question whether or not the really are realtime. The whole point is updating quickly, and they could take as much as 1/2 hour to update.
- Dave Winer
Dave: Generally as long as the web is getting faster and more responsive, I don't care what protocols are used to do it. I worry, however, that if RSSCloud and PubSubHubBub were reversed in Julien's chart, that you wouldn't be discounting his findings. If so, that seems intellectually dishonest to me. Are you more upset about what Julien's numbers show or about his data collection method?
- Chris Messina
Here's what I wrote about this for the community in October. "I see adoption of PubSubHubBub as a win for the Internet, and believe strongly their advocates should see adoption of rssCloud the same way. If they feel pressure from rssCloud, it should result in them more fully embracing RSS, which I felt they weren't doing when I first reviewed their efforts. Once that happens the...
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- Dave Winer
Julien, perhaps if you're publishing data like this in the future, you might want to drop the step where you "try to determine what is the best way to get [a feed's] content" and simply publish the raw stats. That is, looking at the feeds you're dealing with, which ones support which protocols? Some might support more than one, and you could illustrate that in some sort of (non-pie) chart. It seems like determining the "best" way is what opens you up to accusations of bias, etc.
- Ken Sheppardson
The raw numbers do have value, IMHO, simply because as a developer I have to make choices about which protocol(s) to support. It's nice to have adoption data to feed the decision process.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, if it would help you, let's get the adoption data. Start from the other end, what numbers do you want? Let's see if we can get them.
- Dave Winer
Hopefully not data like this: http://friendfeed.com/kshep...
- Dave Winer
Heh. Yeah, that's the chart I was imagining when I wrote "(non-pie) chart" above. :-) What numbers do I want? Well, I've seen the announcement-based stats, e.g. "Service X has now enabled Protocol Y on N feeds" and while I suppose those have value from a marketing standpoint, I don't think it translates directly into real, meaningful usage. The fact that some blog somebody started on some blog hosting service in 2005 that only had one post is now "real time" enabled doesn't really mean anything to me...
- Ken Sheppardson
... Looking at something like Superfeedr considers a sample of feeds that people really want to follow in real time. That is, the fact that someone has said "Please tell me when Feed X updates as soon as possible" is important to me. Given a sample like that, I'd like to know which feeds support which protocols.
- Ken Sheppardson
Right on. I think the fact that CNN, GigaOm and TechCrunch have realtime feeds is important (they do). And with all possible humility I think it matters that Scripting News does as well. (They all support rssCloud, btw.) I'd like to know if Chris Messina's blog is realtime. I don't care how it got to be realtime, btw. And I'd like to see FF support all the popular protocols. These things will all help boost adoption adn that's what I want to see.
- Dave Winer
I hope it is! I installed the PubSubHubBub WordPress plugin (since I self-host) and seems to be working!
- Chris Messina
Good for you.
- Dave Winer
Again, I think the main point of the blog post was : real-time feeds (in general) are gaining traction. I will publish more details on how we measure the (raw) numbers in our December status.
- Julien
The CrunchPad disappears in a puff of vapor. http://www.engadget.com/2009...
Ken Morley and Mark liked this
I feel so sorry for Mike. He is such a nice person, it's just awful that anything bad would ever happen to him. What a shame.
- Mark
I need a shower after that remark! Anybody have any sarcasm removing soap?
- David
I thought Mike was a lawyer in a former life. How did this happen to him (i.e. backstabbing partner)?
- Ken Morley
Another view, same idea: We need a pretty open source Twitter shell so we don't need to keep reinventing it.
Roberto Bonini and Mark liked this
you are a programmer, get right on it ;) :p
- Mark
What If Steve Jobs Hadn’t Returned To Apple In 1997? http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
Mark liked this
why dont you get on your knees and give him a blowjob? this is pathetic
- Mark
Video feed for TechCrunch's realtime conference. http://www.ustream.tv/channel...
Mark liked this
So. That happened. http://www.sarahlane.com/blog...
WorldofHiglet, Chris Heath, imabonehead and 8 other people liked this
Sarah keeping good thoughts and prayers your way
- Jesse Stay
*hugs*
- Rodfather
All the best. Keep spirits high.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
The worst things startups do - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Bertrand Doux, Jeff P. Henderson, Sean Kelly and 6 other people liked this
Mark, for any set of N things, you can have subsets that are worst up to size N-1.
- Bruce Lewis
BAHHHHHHHH NEVER!
- Juan Aaron
What are your thoughts on startups and Roadmaps. Should they be religiously adhered to or should there be one at all?
- Sean Kelly
Paul Carr Debates Jeff Jarvis About So-Called Citizen Journalists - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
Mark liked this
davidrauf: @Rackspace just posted the 3Q earnings release. revenue up 17.4% and profit jumped 8.8% compared to same time last year. - http://twitter.com/davidra...
Mark liked this
Feldman is telling anyone who will listen you are about to be fired
- Mark
Mark: and if you ask @gweston (Rackspace's Chairman) he'll tell you that Loren is incorrect. He wrote me personally last night to tell me to ignore Loren. Funny, I didn't even know what was going on because I've blocked Loren. Why is Loren picking on me? Rackspace decided to turn him down for a sponsorship request (I had nothing to do with it, but Loren decided I did and decided I was fair game for whatever crap he wants to say).
- Robert Scoble
That's kind of an understatement :) (these people keep emailing me, completely unaware of the fb deal)
SAM, sridhars, Symon Muchina Thuo and 47 other people liked this
<coffee comes thru nose>
- Jeff (the マクダジ of FF)
LOL
- Uncle CW™
I hate recruiters
- Ivan Kirigin
Recruiters, gotta love em. Well, actually you don't.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Haahah. That's a good one.
- Micah Wittman
You should reply and say, "Man if only you'd called me a couple of days ago I would have been able to do something with you. Now? Well, sorry, you just missed your chance."
- Kenton
wtf?
- kosmar
what fb deal???
- Gustaf
ha ha.. are they looking to give you a job or get you to hire them on behalf of FF.
- Bindu Reddy
Presumably they are offering their services to recruit staff for friendfeed. You're just an entry in a mail merge database, as far as they're concerned.
- DGentry
HAHAHAH That is epic!! tooooo funny :D
- Susan Beebe
LOL!
- Kol Tregaskes
Tell them you'd like a job at Facebook.
- Andrew C
All is well Paul....What's happening in FB...
- Symon Muchina Thuo
loled so hard.
- sridhars
I tend to agree with Scoble about the "forum problem", but at the same time I really like seeing comments. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think it's less of an issue if you keep groups relatively small. re: http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Nicola Greco, Marc Dong, John Serra and 81 other people liked this
I think the current FriendFeed approach is close to optimal. Do you not see it that way?
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
FF has the inherant ability for the user to take control, both of what they see and the comments they allow. If a user is judicious in their lists and/or filters they should see mostly relevent content (IF that's what they actually want to see). The ability for a poster to moderate comments on their own post gives us the ability to avoid trolls/spam and/or steer the conversation (again,...
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- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Scoble and other "super users" have this problem much more than regular people because they have thousands of subscribers. This is also part of the reason that Twitter probably works better for celebrities -- it's more of a broadcast channel.
- Paul Buchheit
They could have a million subscribers and it wouldn't be an issue, Paul: turn off comments on his FF posts and it would be all broadcast all the time. It's the number of people they choose to subscribe TO that is the issue. To be honest, it's like someone walking into a football stadium and then complaining that it's too loud. If one chooses to follow thosuands of people one must surely expect that the amount of 'noise' is going to increase.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
One thing that was tossed around a while back was the ability to disable comments from anyone you're not subscribed to: that'd allow those with a lot of subscribers to have high-signal conversations that their subscribers can still see and gain value from.
- Mark Trapp
Perhaps he'd like a 'hide user' button similar to FB? This would prevent the "brings people into YOUR life that YOU DID NOT INVITE!" effect... of course the conversation could be rather disjointed. Maybe a small 'additional comments hidden' status that would show them when desired... Of course, without the conversations, FF == twitter?
- Eric Borisch
Paul, can you help me test something? :)
- directeur
The features that would make FF optimal would be to let users follow each other's hides and blocks. For most users this would be a nice, small improvement. For users like scobleizer it might make a huge difference. Of course, implementation details matter.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
The problem is that we don't keep groups relatively small. There are always those who are like me who like to connect, for one, but even normal people add tons of people to their groups. It's just natural. I remember I was first to add 1,000 people to my Twitter account and people thought I was weird. Now thousands of people do that.
- Robert Scoble
One thing with Facebook is they capped it at 5,000 friends. Which kept it from being used by super-connectors but also caused it to be seen as a place where you talk with just your real life friends. Now that public pages are coming on strong, we're seeing that change.
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: the FriendFeed approach is far from optimal. Many, many people told me they don't like joining a forum and like just lurking instead, which is why they chose Twitter (Tim O'Reilly is not the only one who told me this). Tim Robbins likes that on Twitter he can listen to his heros. He sees it as a learning engine. Those of us here love FriendFeed because it lets us talk. But it definitely turns off lots of people.
- Robert Scoble
Paul: the solution is to let us toggle comments on and off. Give the USER CONTROL. If they just want to listen to their friends, hide all the other noise. But then give us who like commenting ability to turn that back on.
- Robert Scoble
You have the ability to toggle comments on and off: Edit -> Disable Comments.
- Mark Trapp
Robert, comments _are_ content.
- directeur
Mark: that is on a PER ITEM BASIS though. Totally useless for what we're talking about.
- Robert Scoble
directeur: yes, but they are content a LOT of people don't want to see or deal with.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, but then you'll be a megaphone broadcasting "your" views.
- directeur
Robert has the same comments (or the same potential) on his blog as he does on FriendFeed, so I don't think it's the comments themselves. I think it's the fact that FriendFeed makes comments almost on equal level as the original post, instead of burying them way down at the bottom of a page or requiring a click to view. Out of sight, out of mind, right?
- Daniel Sims
Nothing in the API precludes someone from writing a FriendFeed client that hides all the comments so you just see a river of feed items. That's how Twhirl, AlertThingy, and all the native iPhone apps implement FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
I have two arms. I barely use my left one. Please cut it off!
- directeur
Turning comments off entirely would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If you could authorize other users to delete comments on your items, you could minimize the forum problem.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
directeur: that's right. That's what most professional publishers want.
- Robert Scoble
I really think the "comments are awesome, why would you ever want to get rid of comments" argument falls on deaf ears at this point. The solution ought to be how to turn off comments if you want to get Scoble (or the people he's saying he represents) back on the FriendFeed train, or to say they're not worth it. I do think if it weren't for the comments, there'd be at least a half dozen other things Scoble or people like him would come up with to not like FriendFeed at this point.
- Mark Trapp
I like the idea of having another options to disable comments for people you're not subscribed to. That way you can allow conversation, but limit it to people you "know" if it makes you more comfortable or limits the noise. I think you should have the ability to set the option as a default for all new posts but be able to override it on a post-by-post basis: 1) public comments 2)...
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- Fa La La La Lindsay
Her Linday-ness: I want that but it would be hard to design.
- Robert Scoble
Mark, I think you make a valid point but then the question becomes: if there are no comments, is FF still the best medium to use? If so, then the ability to turn off comments on one's entire feed should be easy enough to code and implement. I suspect, though, that all things being equal (meaning: there's no ability to comment on an item) FF would no longer be the best medium for a broadcaster.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Mark: I don't think these people will consider FriendFeed at this point. Too much momentum over on Twitter. Look at the news brands: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... you're not going to get them to switch off of Twitter at this point. Sorry. That game is over.
- Robert Scoble
I think the real game is how does Facebook evolve?
- Robert Scoble
The real game is an open decentralized solution. yes, I'm a dreamer.
- directeur
Which leads everyone to wonder why you're trying to nitpick a feature like this, or base your argument on the lack of the feature. The real reason why you (and others like you) aren't into FriendFeed isn't because of the forum problem or the lack of a feature, it's because you think Twitter is better and that's where everyone is. That's fine: that's a great argument. The rest of it is inconsequential to that argument, and wouldn't invalidate it even if you got your way. So what's the point?
- Mark Trapp
I've been talking with a lot of brands and celebrities and regular people. For public studying they like Twitter better. That has Facebook wondering what it will be in the future.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: sorry, but I spent two years talking to thousands of people about FriendFeed and I'm just passing along why they didn't like it. Take that feedback or leave it. Your choice.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: did you speak at dozens of conferences about FriendFeed and Twitter? Did you show hundreds of tech influentials FriendFeed and listen to their feedback?
- Robert Scoble
But your feedback doesn't correlate to the real reason why you, and the people you say you represent, are saying why you won't ever use FriendFeed. You said there's nothing anyone could do to get people to use FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
Mark: if I want to listen to ONLY tech influentials, I can on Twitter. I can't on Facebook. I can't on FriendFeed. http://twitter.com/Scoblei...
- Robert Scoble
Robert, if you're going to pull the "don't you know who I am?" crap, it falls on deaf ears. Let's have a constructive conversation on what you're trying to talk about.
- Mark Trapp
Can't you make lists in FF?
- Andrizzle Gizzle
Sure you can: you can import feeds and lists on FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
Mark: times change and at this point it would be hard to get anyone to take FriendFeed seriously. That said, I believe that it IS possible to move people from Facebook to Twitter or Twitter to Facebook, so THAT is the real battlefront.
- Robert Scoble
any comment thread about 20+ without threading and community promotion/demotion becomes difficult to participate in (for me). Though there is a difference between discussing the radiator on a 94 Subaru and the nature of discussion forums.
- Hayes Haugen
Robert: is the problem really comments or the fact that each time an item gets commented, the items pops back at the top of the list? Regarding the noise, I think that the "problem" with friendfeed is that it was much easier for people to plug in automated feeds and that as a result, there was less of an explicit action. I do not know how other people feel about this but I really miss...
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- Edwin Khodabakchian
Mark: OK, show me your public list the way I did on Twitter. You can't do that here, sorry.
- Robert Scoble
Hayes: BING BING BING.
- Robert Scoble
Ok, so it's not about who you read, it's who you can show that you are reading.
- Andrizzle Gizzle
Bing goes the internet! lol
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Sure Twitter has a lot of momentum now, but how quickly the winds change. Frankly, it's a shame that FF is going to be neglected... I wish that someone with as much motivation and insight as Paul and the original team could take it over now that FB has consumed them. There is still SO MUCH potential in this platform that it is depressing to see it squandered. @Robert - I don't think it...
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- Fa La La La Lindsay
Robert, I don't use public lists: I believe you read my blog post about why I don't. But Hutch Carpenter does, and here's his FriendFeed public list on Innovation Management: http://friendfeed.com/innovat...
- Mark Trapp
Robert, who do you call "influentials"? Do they talk "tech" all the day? Isn't it unhuman? Let's go back to spring/summer 2008, and redefine "smart" for me, please :)
- directeur
Edwin: the problem is on FriendFeed it has the chat problem -- it gets noisy and gets noisy fast.
- Robert Scoble
directeur: influentials are people who influence. I picked them. Shoot me.
- Robert Scoble
The noise is largely proportional to the circles you're in. If you put yourself in a huge room, it will be a loud room.
- Kevin Fox
Robert, do you remember the "MOAR NOISE" phrase? It was THE reason why I built NoiseRiver. Filters, I used to say when you were always saying: MORE NOISE!
- directeur
Kevin: exactly. But on FriendFeed the room gets big VERY QUICKLY because as more people join they drag in their followers with them.
- Robert Scoble
Facebook has the same problem. While we're chatting here, tons of tech news diversity have swooped by.
- Robert Scoble
So Robert, should there be something built in to "warn" others of becoming "chatty". Something that says: "This comment is irrelevant. You may post again when you have something relevant and germane to our discussion"? So WHO makes those distinctions and judgements?
- Melanie Reed
Compare this chat to http://twitter.com/Scoblei... which one brought more information to you? The chat is more fun, cause we're engaged, but it's noisy and if you don't care about it, a waste of time.
- Robert Scoble
Melanie: in a chat room you can't control people that way.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: True, but [big number]*[average number] is far larger than [average number]*[average number]
- Kevin Fox
Hayes you are correct. Slashdot has actually had the best discussion forums for more than ten years because it has threading and community moderation. Its not a trendy social networking site though so no one notices. If you had a social network site where you post topics but with Slashdot like forums it would rock. Only down side is moderators tend to inject bias but /. has good signal after moderation kicks in
- Ed Millard
Robert, I don't care about more information. I have more than enough. :)
- Melanie Reed
(Where you (scoble) are the big number)
- Kevin Fox
Does it really have to be one or the other Robert?
- Chrimmus Tad
from fftogo
Kevin: the problem with FriendFeed is if you and Melanie were having a conversation it would be pretty small, right? But I follow you. The second I touch your conversation it gets big.
- Robert Scoble
If only someone could figure out how to make a room that gets big very quickly appeal to broadcasters...
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
This problem doesn't happen on the private Facebook because you have two-way friending there and a cap of 5,000. But on Facebook Pages? Absolutely. Noise baby noise!
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: broadcasters don't like any of this because there's no way to monetize. Why do you think Arrington really hated this?
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I don't care about more information. I have more than enough. :) What I would like is what Tad is implying in his comment. You know you can have "...two opposites that have learned how to blaze together" ;) And excuse me, but is wrong with a big conversation?
- Melanie Reed
"The chat is more fun, cause we're engaged, but it's noisy and if you don't care about it, a waste of time. " If someone doesn't care about it on FF, they can hide it and not see it again. Problem solved.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Chatting is not intended to provide information. It is like planning -- it is the process of chatting that is what is useful not the words that are spoken/written.
- Brian Sullivan
Thank you, Tina! and Brian!
- Melanie Reed
Melanie: I love big conversations. That's why I loved FriendFeed. But most people aren't like me.
- Robert Scoble
Tina: there are so many things going by on my screen in FriendFeed that hiding them all would take all day long.
- Robert Scoble
Robert -- why is it that you think that people are like you and things should be done for your needs?
- Brian Sullivan
FF is too busy!!
- Joe Silence
Brian: again, it's not about me.
- Robert Scoble
Robert one word: APML. I used to yell it back in 2008, no one cared. You want "filters" by personal interest.
- directeur
FreiendFeed sold ME on it two years ago. I've been trying to sell others on it. The feedback I'm giving is from OTHERS.
- Robert Scoble
The Forum Problem is a problem?
- teh Dork Knight aka Kenny
directeur: APML will never work.
- Robert Scoble
oh dear, don't hate the messenger.
- Joe Silence
Robert: who are these "others" and what are their numbers?
- Melanie Reed
Paul nailed it - Twitter is a broadcast channel. Massive amounts of subscriptions are fine there - it's all about reach. But if you want discovery, if you want to engage, then FriendFeed and FoaF is where it's all. They're NOT the same. One you can subscribe/follow as many as you want, in the other, subscription abuse will cripple your ability to view and interact.
- AJ Kohn
Finally, a thread on this subject that makes sense.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Threading may or may not help... it seemed to hurt with GoogleWave... it was so hard to follow all the tangents... of course without threading a lot of the tangents just get lost anyway. I guess I have given up on trying to catch everything... If it's important and I didn't see it the first time, eventually the concept will bubble up enough times for me to notice. That's one NICE thing about following lots of people and participating in lots of convos.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
why won't APML, or something like it, work? i missed that memo
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Robert, go say this to Last.fm or the BBC :-) Smart recommendation engines are the future
- directeur
FriendFeed may make some audience/discussion leak out, but also makes audience leak in through seeing what your friends are talking about. Arrington may be mostly concerned about the leak out. Other broadcasters may be looking for the leak in.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Marshall, me neither! :)
- directeur
Also, the meta around the content in FF (likes, comments) is what helps turns random data into information. It's annotated and qualified.
- AJ Kohn
Lindsay: true
- Hayes Haugen
Thank you, AJ, yes. And you can sort that out when you want to on your own time. That's the utility of it.
- Melanie Reed
Perhaps one solution to the 'forum problem' is to allow posters to selectively choose who can participate in the discussion but still be viewable to the public.
- Rodfather
So maybe the real question is, why do some people prefer conversation over broadcasting and vice versa? Is the broadcast-mentality simply a matter of popularity (the inability to reciprocate all the connections, so just broadcast instead) or is the effort it takes to connect with people on a more meaningful basis a major turn-off? Or is it just the tools that people use and what makes it easier for them?
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Rodfather, this will bring wars. Trust me. I'm not a commercial object. So you want to SHOUT and ask me to close my mouth? :) Moreover, close comments, other threads will be started and the noise you wanted to avoid will be even greater. The Streisand Effect, anyone? :)
- directeur
For example: this discussion has 80+ comments and rolling. I don't mind that at all. I am engaged. I am also updating a web page on our web site as I do it and switching over to grade 30 some PRF's for students on the play Macbeth. I am not having any trouble with the "forum problem" or any "chattiness" I learned the "ropes" of FF when I joined and accepted that it as it was.
- Melanie Reed
To me FF turns data (the river of content out there) into information (the good stuff - explained). The tool set FF provides is superior in this way - but it takes time to dial in the right set of filters to apply to the data set (which changes!) and many simply overwhelm the great filtering system they've provided.
- AJ Kohn
A lot of people don't want to put in the time and effort to make the tool work for them like you, AJ and Melanie. I can empathize with that. I think it also has to serve their base inclination of either broadcasting or conversation, and the tool choice is also influenced by whether they already are part of a community on it or not. Most people won't leave their community even if it us using the less appropriate tool for their inclination.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
directeur, then those people can make their own thread and allow everyone to comment. I'm thinking of in case there's a roundtable event where certain 'experts' in a field can have a thread to discuss a topic among themselves without worrying about others cluttering the thread.
- Rodfather
AJ, indeed - the task is to build new concepts with and for filters. Filters, not to shut stuff out, but to mix it better to create a constant flow of narratives.
- zeroinfluencer
AJ, is it more that FF provides the platform for the users to turn that data into information? The users are integral to FF. Now with Twitter you can program a week's worth of tweets (I have heard) but I don't wish to do that. Facebook... you could almost do that-although it does have engagement -you could certainly use it without. But FF runs on an engagement engine
- Melanie Reed
Marshall: I don't trust automatic systems to guess what I'm going to be interested in next. Never seen a system yet that works. But we should debate this.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, we should debate it! The robot that makes all my decisions for me says it's quite likely I would enjoy doing that! ;)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
That's getting into intelligent agents and AI once full blown
- Melanie Reed
if you ask me, and you don't, the problem has always been lack of comment moderation and threading. Too many users isn't a problem if no one sees them. Slashdot was one of the first doing this, using an interface which is actually very similar to FF and it seems to work there.
- Vincent van Wylick
Web tech needs to look outside their dev environments for richer influences in filter design: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- zeroinfluencer
Is the problem that Robert is looking for a single service solution. I see the same 'content' on Twitter and FriendFeed but I scan Twitter for 'raw information' and go to FriendFeed to 'discuss' it with others. I watch the news at home on TV but I talk about it with my friends or work colleagues around the water cooler or coffee shop table. I am comfortable existing in several spaces
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
@Lindsay: I don't know. I'd rather educate people on the power that FF can provide with a little effort. Or, that it actually doesn't take LOTS of subscriptions. Max it at Dunbar's number (which is what I do for my home feed) and you'd be fine.
- AJ Kohn
+++ Johnny Scotty would be proud of you: The right tool for the job
- Melanie Reed
@David: Exactly! My home feed - I tweak it. I use people like Robert and Rob Diana and Michael Fruchter and Anthony Citrano and Thomas Hawk and numerous others to bring a mix of themes and concepts into my feed.
- AJ Kohn
So are we saying that its not the tool itself...but HOW it is or is not used that maxes utility? If so I agree!
- Melanie Reed
@Melanie: Yes, the users are the key. The users are the filters. http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/soylent... And the engagement provides a rich annotation and a secondary level of filtering. So yes, users and their engagement absolutely matter.
- AJ Kohn
Sure, yes, how you use it maxes utility. But it also helps if it's suited to how you WANT to use it... if not it's a struggle. And people don't like to struggle, even if it's possible to make something do what you want it to... easier to use another tool if it fits your purpose better. FriendFeed fits my purpose so it's not a struggle for me... but for someone with a more broadcasting mindset than a conversational one, it's going to be tougher.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Vincent, most long-time FriendFeeders have spoken strongly against any sort of moderation/rating system for comments. No one wants mobs of people trying to control what other people can see like what happens on Digg. It's why every time the topic of 'Unlike' comes up, people rise up to talk it down because it creates an aura of competition and negativity.
- Akiva Moskovitz
AJ, yes! users are the filters.
- Melanie Reed
Akiva +++
- Melanie Reed
Anybody use Mailchimp here? It is tangential to the discussion. They have a cracker jack built in user educational system that monitors and makes usage suggestions.
- Melanie Reed
Is lunchtime finally over yet?
- Hayes Haugen
I'd love to peek in on the recommendation engine discussions. I'm in the 'they don't work camp' myself but I'm open to being convinced and perhaps technology has approached a point where it could work but ... from working in eCommerce I've seen it fail time and time again. Random factors, contextual issues etc.
- AJ Kohn
@Melanie: Know of Mailchimp but don't use. The 'monitor and makes usage suggestions' sounds interesting though.
- AJ Kohn
AJ, that's because the devs didn't pay attention when their instructors (ahem) were teaching it to them. ;)
- Melanie Reed
Another point I'd like to make is that no one is forcing anyone to read the comments here. If people want a broadcast-only medium, it's fairly easy not to click on the 'x more comments' link. Unfortunately, Robert makes a painful observation: he played FriendFeed cheerleader for two years and the people who needed to take the bait didn't or did but then cut loose. That pretty much means...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
Johnny: I am comfortable with all of these too, but it's not about me. But, anyway, the business battle now is between Facebook and Twitter and it'll be interesting to see the choices that Paul's team makes and how those compare with the team NK over at Twitter is making. Then the market will choose which one is best.
- Robert Scoble
Akiva: If I were at Facebook and knew that they could turn into the next MySpace I'd put every single engineering minute onto Facebook. Wouldn't you?
- Robert Scoble
Like I said before, there is still SO MUCH potential here... and it's a shame to see it squandered. I think there are a lot of ways it could be taken to the next level. For sure it could be a contender to Twitter with a few enhancements, but fat chance of that now that there is no longer a dev team, and that it's "parent" is a competitor.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Robert, here's a good example: You want to debate intelligent recommendation agents? Allright, I know that you know Chris Saad. Chris is a very cool guy in fact! But do you know Deniz Oktar? Deniz, who is not as popular as Chris, is a SMART Turkish guy too and works on the same subject. If you limit your view to "popular" people, you'll definitely miss him. And debating such a subject without alternative ideas likes Deniz's or humbly mine, won't be perfect :)
- directeur
Not sure, Robert. Is turning into the next MySpace a good thing for you or a bad thing? For me, it'd be bad.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, go take a look at (and experience) mailchimp's monitor and make usage suggestion system. It's adaptable for a number of scenarios
- Melanie Reed
I think the business battle (other than the marketing to consumers end of it) will be occupied and won by Wave. Facebook, Twitter and FriendFeed are mere toys in that world.
- Brian Sullivan
Melanie, I'm not complaining about a solution that MailChimp could provide. I'm fine with FriendFeed as it is (for the most part).
- Akiva Moskovitz
directeur: most people choose news brands to curate and find new people that will have something valuable to say. See http://twitter.com/Scoblei... for instance. That already is TOO MUCH so telling people to get more people or more things into their lives just isn't going to cut it for most people.
- Robert Scoble
Allowing public panels where only the influential can talk certainly would have a useful role, Its just like panels at conferences. A lot of people would no doubt like to just follow the influential in these forums. On the down side it would make the already influential more so and it would probably lose some audience if it was done a lot because there is no democratic engagement. The people who don't spend all their time cultivating their fame and networks do say interesting things too.
- Ed Millard
directeur: and, anyway. if he's in Turkey and not in San Francisco he's far less likely to influence tech in a major way. So I disagree.
- Robert Scoble
(FYI - look at this conversation and tell me where else anything like this could take place.)
- AJ Kohn
No, we're completely boring and worthless, Ed. We're not worth paying attention to. I mean, who wants to see a picture of our kids? ;)
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Akiva, I meant for those who might struggle "getting" FF but would enjoy and benefit from it once they do. There's an "on ramp" to FF that rivals North Corridor Dallas coming out of an apt complex on to 50mph+ 4 lane traffic. Some of us are better at that than others, but you still see a lot of cars on the road. :)
- Melanie Reed
IRC or a phpBB messageboard!
- Joe Silence
There has also been a lack of creative uses using the FF tool sets. Good uses of the tools inspires participation + it's easy to criticize -- harder to create.
- zeroinfluencer
@Robert: Whoa, whoa. Weren't you arguing that adding 8K new people from Twitter Lists was a good thing? Is more better, or worse?
- AJ Kohn
+++David
- Melanie Reed
@David: Good point, no real developer platform. That's been a big boon for both Facebook and Twitter.
- AJ Kohn
Robert, yet he DOES. You just aren't into that speciality :) If you think that every "tech" thing must happen in SF you really miss A LOT.
- directeur
Woah, Robert, so you are saying anyone who doesn't live in SF doesn't count in a tech discussion? That's a little self centered isn't it?
- Ed Millard
I understand it but I really dislike any discussions where the topic seems to be "how can we turn this thing that the people who use it like into something that people who don't use it and would only use it for selfish reasons like?" Screw them. If something's not as "techy" as Slashdot and it's more chaotic because the comments aren't threaded like Slashdot and there's no moderation...
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- Mark H
Lindsay, I want to see a picture of your kids. I only wish I had some to show back. ;)
- Melanie Reed
Ed: you are NOT a careful reader.
- Robert Scoble
Robert's not saying that those ideas can't happen, or that a true revelation can't come from elsewhere, but that ... the likelihood that someone outside of SF to influence tech is less. The Capital of the Internet is SF. I'd agree with that. But that doesn't mean it'll always stay that way, nor does it mean that tech from other areas can't be influential. (least that's how I read it.)
- AJ Kohn
OK I just read it, you still said if you don't live in SF there is very little chance you will have any influence on tech. If you have no influence then you either have nothing to say on the subject, or even if you do have something to say it wont matter.
- Ed Millard
Hrm, I think the whole thing is overblown. My personal FF landing page still has as much utility as my first day (if not more). Bleh, whatever.
- Chieze Okoye
@AJ The FF API is beautiful, I don't think dev communities saw the richness that you can create with the aggregation of FF streams. A few valley PR oriented bloggers pushed 'conversation' as FF's 'killer app' - whereas, the realtime aggregation streams and republishing of content is radical and unique.
- zeroinfluencer
Well I'm pretty sure all the people in Seattle, Toronto, Paris, London, Moscow,Tokyo, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Beijing, Bangalore, Boulder, etc. probably disagree
- Ed Millard
@David: I'll take your word on the API and wouldn't doubt it given the FF team's chops. But fostering usage, that community - that's where things may have gotten shaky. Too few people leveraging it. It could still resolve back to an inability to really grasp what FF can do for them.
- AJ Kohn
AJ, I think you're on to something. Back in the day, usability (including general user and disabled) use to be a well-known topic. Universities made it a part of the curriculum. Everything before and including e-commerce got the once over. But it occurs that the latest generation (including GLS and SM) have outpaced the community standards for usability. It's really the wild west again-...
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- Melanie Reed
Akiva: I suspect the noise problem Robert's describing from others isn't that comment threads get too long. It's that items keep popping to the top as new comments show up, when they don't want to see the new comments. I don't see any way around that except a separate client. It would take too much away from the FriendFeed experience for the default interface not to work this way.
- Bruce Lewis
Mark, I didn't mean to suggest /. is the only solution to the forum problem. If you have really big forum discussions /. is time tested way to control noise and raise the signal level. On the other hand it would probably be a horrible solution for intimate and friendly discussions among friends. Someone earlier Lindsey? kind of had a good suggestion. When you make a post have a row of option buttons and let the poster set the kind of forum for that thread, broadcast, panel, open, modded, thredded, not..
- Ed Millard
Ed: I specifically said "far less likely." I didn't say there is very little chance. But, seriously, this is an argument for another thread. Lots of people think they have influence but actually don't have as much. For instance, I love to think I have influence on Facebook but I'm far less likely to influence that then Paul Buchheit is. Facts are facts.
- Robert Scoble
Chieze glad you like FriendFeed. Me too. It's awesome. But that doesn't mean much to the rest of the world.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, how often do you use "Add This"? It's germane :)
- Melanie Reed
OK we will agree to disagree on that one and drop it. I've lived in the bay off and on, I think there are pluses and minuses to being there.
- Ed Millard
Melanie: "Add This" being the "Add Photos" at top of FriendFeed? Not as much as I should.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: No this service: http://www.addthis.com/ This is fast becoming the SM share button for many websites. Ours uses it. And FF is on it. Take a look at the entire list
- Melanie Reed
FriendFeed's feature set will mean a lot to the rest of the world when it's fully integrated into Facebook in 2011.
- Bruce Lewis
Bruce: I don't think it'll take that long.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you may be right, in which case FriendFeed is a relevant thing to look at. Maybe it isn't actually too far ahead of its time.
- Bruce Lewis
Just like Lisp can make you a better programmer in other languages, FriendFeed can make you a better thinker when writing about other social networks. Popularity isn't everything, even for a blogger.
- Bruce Lewis
You mean, it's not all about attention? :D
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Who really knows why Twitter got all the traction? Does Scoble? I very much doubt it. I think there's a great effort going into finding a logical explanation for Twitter massive success and FriendFeeds more modest gains. My own best guess is that it has more to do with the madness of crowds than it does with any limitation in FriendFeed. Twitter had a decent enough foothold already by...
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- JSLeFanu
from FreshFeed
Twitter got the traction because Twitter's easy. It requires very little effort to get into and it requires even less to participate. It's the same reason why YouTube comments are the cesspool of the Internet and MetaFilter's comments are not: anyone can sit around and watch videos all day and then trash talk them but you make people pay to comment and you'll weed out the chaff almost...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
David: I was there from early days on Twitter and studied how it grew. I know more than you might think. Remember, I was the first person to follow 1,000 people there and I was the 13,800ish user to join.
- Robert Scoble
This link is the most illuminating one on FF traction at the time of the buyout. It indicates FF was just starting to regain traction after it had stalled out for a while and it suggests if maybe FF had stuck it out a while longer things might have changed. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Ed Millard
Twitter got hot in the early days because of Leo Laporte and because of SXSW and because it was goofy fun way for tech influencers to talk to their friends. It just kept growing from there. Another factor in addition to simplicity (Akiva's right there) is the API. Tons of clients and tools and services are built on top of it. FriendFeed got nearly none in comparison.
- Robert Scoble
The difference may be luck of the draw ( a la Gladwell)
- Brian Sullivan
People had to build tons of clients, tools and services for Twitter because the default web UI is so bad.
- Ed Millard
Ed: what that graph doesn't show you is what we now know. Google Wave sucked a lot of attention of geek influentials away (IE Hype) and Facebook's Connect is running away with another game. I went into FriendFeed the week they decided to sell and asked them because I knew Twitter had new features coming that would make FriendFeed less interesting. I think the FriendFeed team looked at the competition and decided to fold.
- Robert Scoble
How could I have ignored the API? It's like Firefox's plug-ins: it's the only thing that makes Twitter usable for many users. Without it, they wouldn't touch it. Heck, if it weren't for Tweetie 2, I wouldn't touch it either.
- Akiva Moskovitz
And Facebook's Connect platform is getting incorporated everywhere. I think FriendFeed was hoping to become part of the general web, like what we did over on http://building43.com and that just wasn't going to happen because Facebook's Connect platform is rocking and rolling now. In fact, I made a fundamental blunder by not going with Facebook on Building43. If I had, our traffic would have been much higher than it is now.
- Robert Scoble
You can be sure that once CNN and other assorted media outlets started plugging Twitter it was game over. Once the band wagon was rolling every "personality" was going to hop on. It is a little disturbing that Miley Cyrus has now joined the "everyone should delete their Twitter accounts" camp.
- Ed Millard
David Hall +1 Steven Berlin Johnson would be a good reference - the persistence of babble is incredible valuable in phatic communications. FF, through the web interface hides a lot of that. Instead, the babble was more bookmark centric and less about 'having a sandwich'. That's why you have, on the whole, better conversation threads on FF, and ending up having to duck out of the way of...
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- zeroinfluencer
Disturbing REALLY????? My word, Miley is absolutely right <sarcasm/>
- Roberto Bonini
To paraphrase Louis Gray's wife, "nerds in startups are fickle". I speculate they had a lot of self doubt when they stalled out prior to that up tick, and decided to sell just about the time FF was starting to take off again. Someone waves $50 million at you during a period of self questioning that is a potent motivator, I think Zuckerberg saw that and he did nip a potential competitor in the bud.
- Ed Millard
But all the above comments is about public sharing. I use FF a lot for project planning and development - it's fast - you can discuss items with good archive search, and you can post media. I wonder how many people use FF in this way, and ignore the public babble?
- zeroinfluencer
Having read most of this thread (and Robert, comments are VERY valueble) the"forum problem" is NP-complete. Comments are valuable becuase seeing people reason is often just as enlightening, if not more so, than the original information.
- Roberto Bonini
Ed - mind you, there's only a few ways you can get to the helm of the FB API design and product development. :) Who's to say this isn't all going according to plan?
- zeroinfluencer
Roberto: me and you agree on that. In my research most people do not. They see these things as noise. But, if you make the comments toggle on and off we BOTH win! Plus, comments REALLY help search!
- Robert Scoble
Ed: correction, it was $50 million.
- Robert Scoble
Robert you keep talking about "your research". Is this anything more than anecdotal conversations?
- Brian Sullivan
David, Well maybe Paul and Co. are doing a trojan horse on FB but what I've read about Zuckerberg he doesn't seem likely to relinquish control of anything he cares about and I am skeptical you are going to turn FB in to FF with their entrenched user base.
- Ed Millard
@Scoble you're arguing from authority again. I think on a broadcast platform like Twitter that's an easier one to pull off. On Twitter it's a big "so what" if you've posted a load of BS because most people will simply miss any challenge to your "content." Post the same on FriendFeed and you get tackled and you get tackled in public. Reasonable enough grounds to explain your current stance and certainly as good as any reason I've heard you put forward yourself.
- JSLeFanu
Robert, I stand corrected, and it is corrected, this editing your posts thing is one of FF's scarier features.
- Ed Millard
OPEN QUESTION: Is FF gaining or losing users? I see very little here now - but I'm told user numbers are going through the roof.
- Jim Connolly
Ed: tell me one thing. What's the biggest difference between FF and FB? There's already not as much difference as you'd might think. The one thing I miss over there? Real time search.
- Robert Scoble
Twitter got big because it's about ego. Look at me, Me, ME! Twitter flourished because people like to talk about themselves. (FF is not, which is why it hasn't gained nearly as much traction.) It was developed as an update service. It has evolved into ... something else. As for comments, they are invaluable.
- AJ Kohn
Jim: user numbers are not going through the roof here. I don't know anyone credible who has said that. The registered numbers are going up, but the active numbers are going down.
- Robert Scoble
AJ: FriendFeed is just as much about ego as Twitter is. If not more so.
- Robert Scoble
Ed, the goal is to design influentially for the web. Paul B does seem to give that ethos in his startup camp talks and general interviews. I would think FB would warm to that ideology.
- zeroinfluencer
Very true. Robert.
- Roberto Bonini
@Robert: How? Seriously, I'd like to hear your opinion.
- AJ Kohn
Robert: In other words, as people like yourself, Arrington and even those little guys like myself with a couple of thousand subscribers leave - we're being replaced by less active users. Makes sense. I used to check in on and off all day. Now, 2/3 times a week,
- Jim Connolly
Jim: not true. I don't see a lot of people joining in here and I'm watching it closely. Sorry. More people are leaving the back door than are coming in the front.
- Robert Scoble
To me the two big ones are 1) perception that it more walled garden networks and not as open though certainly it has avenues which are more open like FF 2) its home to massive quantities of apps, games, spam from people trying to get rich that hold no interest to me, though obviously many others like them. FF is probably just overlooked by that crowd, if it were bigger it would be infected with all that crap too. FF seems to mostly just be good people from my limited time here.
- Ed Millard
All User Centric Design is modeled around the ego. Good software design keeps that in mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- zeroinfluencer
AJ: Twitter is, for many people, about business now. Not ego at all. News brands: http://twitter.com/#... no ego. Tech companies: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... No ego. But here? It's ALL about ego!
- Robert Scoble
David is right.
- Robert Scoble
On Twitter the default is to show number you follow, number of followers, number of Tweets. That's all playing on ego and popularity. Nearly everything (even lists) is geared to stimulate a innate need to acquire more of something as a way to ... validate contribution or perceived influence or authority. FF does not show this in the default mode.
- AJ Kohn
Companies and brands are the most aggressive form of ego there is, and they usually are direct reflections of the ego of the company's CEO.
- Ed Millard
Alright Robert. In order to reduce the signal to noise ratio, we can do one of two things, we can use "Likes" to filter the comment stream. If I Like more posts from Robert than i do from LG, Roberts comments appear but not LG's. We can use semantics to (somehow) sort the thread and show comments relevant to the original post. (simply dumping noise isin't a solution - not all noise is noise all the time. Likewise, increasing signal in an echo chamber is fruitless)
- Roberto Bonini
@Robert: Oh, I think Twitter is a great business tool! It's a marketers paradise. But I'm not sure that's what most people believe it to be. People still think they're going to get some sort of social dialog there. I think it's why Twitter churn is so high. People get it thinking it'll be one thing and quickly find out it's another.
- AJ Kohn
+1 AJ, there are some people that use Twitter in awesome, constructive, useful, ways like Tim O'Reilly and Jay Rosen but a lot of people its pure self promotion. As for news outlets using twitter they are going to go wherever the eyeballs are, and they will go to multiple networks not just Twitter. Those are pure broadcast, no engagement, they aren't really a ringing endorsement of why Twitter is great.
- Ed Millard
I'd bet FF *would* take off (but be worse for it) if it listed how many times the content I fed got liked and commented on, and that (along with subscribers etc.) were all listed right there at the top of my home feed. And that upon signing up, I'd get suggested users based on subscriptions but also who got the most likes and comments. Yet, I don't think that's conducive to what FF really excels at.
- AJ Kohn
@Robert, biggest difference between Facebook and Friendfeed - reciprocal connections. Without a doubt. The apps, the ads, other stuff, is true, but for me the central difference, and the thing that betrays a fundamental difference of worldview between the two apps is whether or not you can follow someone's content without them having to follow you back. You can only do that on Facebook...
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- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
@Ed: I realized a long time ago that Twitter was a big Internet megaphone. And if you could get a lot of people to 'listen' to that megaphone well, that's powerful stuff. It's about Reach. Twitter gives your message reach. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't see it as ... transforming.
- AJ Kohn
Those who study the art of propaganda consider reach to be everything, because following reach is influence, and following influence is control. TV is losing its reach in the Internet era so most of those "brands" and "personalites" are rushing to find a way to regain it, enter Twitter and FB. They are better because they are bidirectional.
- Ed Millard
*Noise* :)
- ashish
@Ed: I'd be interested to see more on how reach leads to influence. It often does but ... not always. Plenty of multi-million dollar ad campaigns in the graveyard as examples. Reach + ? = influence.
- AJ Kohn
Ed I think you're right. I caught that TC piece at the time too. Seems to me that the FriendFeed guys had a bit of a crisis of confidence and grabbed lunch while it was on offer. In any case I always figured FriendFeed as a place to graduate to once you'd rammed up against Twitters limitations. And, as I'm sure you know, that doesn't take long. That's how I got here. I was actually on...
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- JSLeFanu
You don't have influence until you have reach so its the prerequisite. Then it a matter of how effectively you craft the message and push the buttons in your target audience. Some people are good at that part, some aren't, some fail, some succeed.
- Ed Millard
Robert, I just wonder. Isn't twitter more about consuming the information and FF more about sharing and discussing? Look at http://twitter.com/Scoblei.... What can anyone add to that or comment on that? I agree it is getting a lot noisy in here (exhibit, this post). But not all posts will be this noisy I think.
- Amit
+1 Jandy, she answered Robert's challenge to me better than I did.
- Ed Millard
@Ed: I'm not sure. New memes start with someone small sometimes. Say ... keyboard cat ... and someone who has reach communicates that message and it goes big. So who has the influence? The creator of keyboard cat or the person to has the reach to make it go big? I find it very interesting.
- AJ Kohn
Jandy: +100. You just nailed for me why I like Twitter and FriendFeed better than Facebook. Agreed.
- Robert Scoble
Robertt, maybe this post and the scads of comments prove your point, but maybe your point is limited to your own experience due to your unique position in tech. You speak, noise follows. But that does not make Friendfeed irrelevant or useless for the average or even just left or right of average user. You have a unique experience that is going to color any forum you put your time into....
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- Martha
+++Jandy
- Melanie Reed
Well put, Jandy.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I think the forum problem is not as big in smaller more intimate groups. Recently I've been very active in the DMU group here that includes a lot of folks who've migrated here from Flickr. The relevancy is much more higher in these venues than in the main feed because it's a smaller controlled experience. I do wish though that groups were more full featured like the rest of FF though....
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- Thomas Hawk
oh of course and photo voting pools for groups would by awesome too. ;)
- Thomas Hawk
Lists are not enough. Twitter, FF and other social networks need tagging by default, then filter on list + tag. That's the element that would kill the noise and turn them into interest networks.
- howard shippin
from BuddyFeed
Martha: you might have a point if we were just talking about me. But we're not. So, try again. Again, I've talked with thousands of people about these things. They tell me they don't like the noise that public forums bring. I've been doing this for 25 years and this isn't the first time I've heard this pushback. Facebook, by the way, on its iPhone app, handles it perfectly: it hides all...
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- Robert Scoble
You all keep referring to this as either chat or comments when actually its a discussion. I think that the ability to discuss anything on Friend Feed or anywhere else for that matter IS where you learn the most. I'm not techy like most of you, I'm just an ordinary 'average' user, but I see twitter more as a 'newsreel' of info, shallow but instant, whereas Friend Feed is more a 'thrashing out of ideas and opnions, and is therefore all the richer for it.
- Sandra Large
Sandra: chat/discussion/forum/comments are all pretty much the same thing. Yes, the two are different. There CAN be lots of learning here, it's just that this is a lot noiser than other online things in some ways.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, about noise: when you or other tech influencers introduce FriendFeed, you show the things you're excited about, which tend to be big and noisy, right? And if you're the first person someone follows on FF, they're going to get a noisy first impression. The slower growth that doesn't come through tech influencers may have less of a back door.
- Bruce Lewis
And about the 25+-year-old forum problem: Moderated Usenet was great until moderators slacked off. Decentralized moderation fixes that, at least for small discussions. Larger discussions can lead to whack-a-mole (though I notice this one hasn't), but with one of the suggestions I made earlier in this conversation the number of whackers could scale with the number of moles.
- Bruce Lewis
Moderation = censorship. Censorship sucks. Give the users control to hide and block. The less censorship the better.
- Thomas Hawk
@Paul - what about a view to only see the user's posts/content ie no comments of others and no likes => then it becomes twitter like
- Kishore Balakrishnan
Come on, it's hardly messier than Facebook, since the default view only includes the first and last comment. Basically the gist I'm getting is that people who think they're important don't want to listen to people who they don't think are important. Such is the human race, I suppose.
- Victor Ganata
+++Victor hammer meets nail.
- JSLeFanu
Robert said "FB iPhone app ... hides all comments with an arrow that you can then use to expand the comments. That is so much better than this mess here that it isn't funny". Robert, I must be missing your point because FF also hides most comments until you expand them because you want to read them... Don't want to read FF comments, don't expand them, problem solved. Or are you saying FF is a "mess" because it shows first and last comment?
- Ed Millard
235 comments! I really don't want to expand *that* on FF! Is this a pain-point for anyone else?
- Space Cowboy
Not for me. If I'm interested enough in the topic or dialog I'll click the time stamp and open the post page to read everything. The text amount is comparable to a medium length blog post: if I have the time to read that I have the time to read this if it interests me.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
A typical blog post? Dragging & copying the comments only (which took about a min. of scrolling) produced 9200 words and 23 pages of text. Blog posts also tend to have a more easily read narrative.
- Vincent van Wylick
The problem is for big conversations like this one you need threading and maybe moderation, but for more normal conversations that are smaller flat is better. Allowing a switch between the two adds complexity. For big conversations FF lacks the button to reply to a specific poster so the viewer can thread, at least as an option. Much of the noise level in this conversation is due to people having to manually try to fake threading.
- Ed Millard
The threading vs. flat conversation is interesting to me - we've tried multiple times to put Disqus or Intense Debate on a film blog I write for, and every time we meet huge resistance to threading ESPECIALLY on long threads. People say they have a lot of difficulty finding the new comments when they aren't all at the top or bottom.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Why can't there be a summary fly-out with timestamps based on response rate to single comments and a "last comment made" link as well as "thread count" links and lastly, "participants in this thread" link? Collapse everything else except the initial post. The initial interface looking like this one, should always be available for those who want to "sort through". You want the...
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- Melanie Reed
Jandy, you kind of have to let the user flip between threading and flat to solve the chronology problem. Slashdot has a popup menu at the top that lets you view in "Threaded, Nested, Flat, No Comments". The down side is the UI gets progressively more complex both to implement and use unless you are going to force everyone to lowest common denominator UI.
- Ed Millard
But Ed, that's what I have against the traditional "threaded" approach: all the fork like structure. It does get complicated real fast. What's needed is somewhere a "summary" for those jumping in late to "catch up" but also the "single comment" link to democratize the discussion. Threads have all the indentation problems of trying to follow that way IF I am picturing what you mean by thread.
- Melanie Reed
+1 Ed
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
My other observation is this: everyone creates a "story" about the ideas and information they are taking in and immediately starts associating connections in their mind creating a mental picture whether they realize it or not when they are perceiving that information. Our user interfaces don't yet lend themselves to that especially where it come to dialogue and forums. We've accepted a...
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- Melanie Reed
Here's why you don't need indented/tangential threading: FF discussions tend to be small enough to fit in the "RAM" in one's mind. It curtails many threads that might ramble; the exception (like Paul's thread here) comes when the power of the topic/zeitgeist and vibe of a live chat going strong overrides that usual point of decay. Predictablly, one or several commenters here will start a new thread or escalate it to a blog post and summarize their thoughts based on what transpired on this stream.
- Micah Wittman
Melanie, have you used Slashdot, they did forums earlier and better than anyone. The forum starts out flat, and then starts threading. Random community moderators start modding up the insightful posts, and burying the trolls, crap, etc. Once the moderation kicks in the "summary" is all the posts that were modded up to 5 which are shown expanded. All the lower moderated stuff is there but you have to clck to see. Slashdot would suck like YouTube comments if they hadn't solved the forum problem.
- Ed Millard
It's organic, not hierarchical. As other have stated, there is as much to learn from watching the process unfold as there is to gain from end result.
- Micah Wittman
Ed, no, I haven't used Slashdot but I'm willing to give it a try. I'm pretty adaptable. But when I see a problem and it becomes "the picture" for me, in this case a circle then I know its time for the leap out of the present "prison of one idea". ;)
- Melanie Reed
Micah, its true threads are bad for small friendly forums. Some of this discussion is about what happens when the forums on "celebrity" social expert's threads get so big they overflow readers brains and they turn in to *noise*. One noise problem is organization, the other is some post and some posters are better than others in the mind of the celeb and the reader.
- Ed Millard
Slashdot dealt with most of the forum problems ten years ago, they had to to survive the trolls. The problem is their UI needs to be complex to be flexible and keep everyone happy. Their audience is also mostly geek power user. When you get to social networks the other UI school is demanding the UI be dirt simple so the unwashed masses can cope, but dirt simple mean its inflexible and it ticks off nearly everyone, especially power users. Hard problem to solve... making everyone happy.
- Ed Millard
Ed, conferences have break-out groups. The same idea should be employed.
- Micah Wittman
Ed, yes, you offered a little explication for others of what happens when you lost the ability to categorize your"story" into a mental picture that is associated with previous "stories" you have stored in the brain. That end result is "noise". Some of us are better at doing that than others, that's true. But there come a point of over flow for all of us. What our UI needs to do is to amplify and assist in that "story" constructing process.
- Melanie Reed
Break out groups is a nice idea, but it seems a bit cumbersome. You need to make a new post, post a link here and get some critical mass from the first forum to move. If you do it five times you would splinter the first forum and lose critical mass, especially in a "real-time" forum where people will only watch one forum at a time. Chances are most people will cling to the first forum if its interesting.
- Ed Millard
Ed and Micah, what I hear both of you saying, and Robert as well, is that at some point in the "story" constructing process, the dialog from the forum needs to end in the narrative of a blog. Up till now, the blog component has been a random, unattached part of the discussion. AM I hearing that you think that in some way it should become part of the UI? So that the discussion gets...
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- Melanie Reed
Not sure I follow, blog is kind of a one voice, one direction thing, only way a forum morphs to blog is when once person splits off the forum to make a more in depth point and posts the blog link to the forum. I'm mostly just talking about the various methods for restoring order in a big forum, and improving signal to noise ratio. Most entail putting more options and more UI in and around the forum and making the UI more complex which many think is bad on a social network.
- Ed Millard
Ed, as I was writing this, it occurs to me that what I'm suggesting is what I may have just figured out (finally) that Google Wave is trying to get us to do. But if so, I beleive FF could actually do it better. the "noise" problem that was created by the various forms of SM, inside and outside of the platforms, was the inability to "connect the dots". We didn't have a framework for how...
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- Melanie Reed
One of the problems that we haven't solved is the usefulness of digression and random access of connective tissue in the "story" process. That's the wild card that often comes up as "noise"
- Melanie Reed
I can't speak for Robert. Some of his issue "seems" to be he only wants to see the Silicon Valley/SF movers and shakers in his feed talking about tech and social networks, and he doesn't much want anyone but that same group to be posting on forums under his auspices. Friend Feeds openness is bad for that. The same is true for all the Twitter celeberati. They don't want peons anywhere near their online presence to tarnish it.
- Ed Millard
Only way I can see to maintain FF openness for those who want it, and celeb broadcast only mode for the celebs who demand it, in one social network is you have to have an option when you make a post on your feed to control the forum methodology (i.e. broadcast only peons can only look on, panel mode where only my social elite are allowed to speak & peons can watch, private where only my circle can speak and see (FB mode), or completely OPEN(FF mode).
- Ed Millard
There also seems to be an issue where someone you follow, through the "like" process, can inject pictures of kittens, babies and man titteh in to your feed. Of course that is kind of the original point of social networks, seeing what your network sees. I think some just want hard core tech news and talk and twitter lists probably do allow an uber though somewhat lifeless feed like that.
- Ed Millard
Ed, well, that is the territory of the heart when it comes into contact with the machine. And oddly (or maybe not so oddly) there is a post on my feed that addresses that theme: http://friendfeed.com/faithx5... ;) Digression and Random access at work. lol And I find that refreshing. I'm always excited about how some new idea may be generated because I allowed what...
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- Melanie Reed
@Melanie: I fully believe in non-linear learning. The ability to take input from diverse thematic content and synthesize something ... to apply something from one world to the other. That's where I think we're heading. I think of it a little bit like a digital version of Burroughs' Cut Up technique: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- AJ Kohn
I can't believe I read the whole thing
- Michael Slattery
Such a simple and obvious solution: provide an optional *LIST* view for Friendfeed items. Open the comments only on items that look really interesting. Am I missing something obvious? Then Friendfeed could easily emulate Twitter on all essentials (and surpass it in many other areas).
- Sean McBride
Sean, I think the obvious thing you are missing is there are no FF developers any more so FF probably isn't getting anything it doesn't already have. And there are camps here that don't really like the alternatives that FB and Twitter offer which is why this is such a hot button issue. I wish there was one social network that had lists, open forums, walled gardens, and broadcast mode based on the wishes of the person running a feed so everyone could be happy in one network.
- Ed Millard
Live now: This Week In Tech with Natali Del Conte @natalidelconte and Jason Calacanis @jason. http://live.twit.tv. Discuss here....
daveccorey, Daniel Rowley, Brook White and 12 other people liked this
Hi Leo
- x5315
Welcome Natali! Hi Leo :)
- Hector
First time I'm tuning in from the beginning of the show...I feel like I should skip this because I like to listen in the car.
- Cassidy
Hello, Leo!
- Nolan Alston
Cassidy... it's a different experience from the produced podcast - different, but good
- Chris Heath
So when Leo starts publishing the edited videos on Roku and such, will we see the clock behind him skipping after each removed blooper?
- Hector
Turn-by-turn is ok leo, but apple requires developers to provide their own maps :)
- Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal
Apple just bought a map company though, maybe they're going to offer it.
- x5315
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/wealth_... Wealth of Networks by Jochai Benkler, brilliant!
- Leo Laporte
Is live.twit.tv up? It doesn't seem to load. And the bitgravity feed isn't loading in VLC either...
- Rob Miller
No, there seems to be some issues. At least i'm having issues.
- x5315
I just got the bitgravity feed working now in mplayer
- Rob Miller
Darn, have to wait until next week now to hear about the twitmobile.
- Rob Miller
buonasera @natali ;) and ciao to @jason mohamed ali calacanis :-p
- alex
Had to stop watching the live feed, has he said what his car is yet?
- Matthew DeVries
next week on the car
- cxx dxx
This week's friend feed thread was very sparse... People are leaving in droves.
- Hector
Great job!
- Hector
Tease: This Week on This Week In Tech, Natali del Conte shows off her Droid, Jason Calacanis talks about SOX, and Patrick Norton fights for a free Internet. TWiT is next!
- Leo Laporte
Here's my bet, though I'll lean out and say it's a droptop... http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Geoff Schaadt
good show leo GOOGEL WAVE 4 DUMBYS <<
- daveccorey
Our model, @aaronights, is to have a small number of advertisers I can get behind 100%. If I endorse something it's because I use it.
Eric Geller, Mark and Think Twice liked this
I think you do some of the best and most tastefull ads out there. I have been an Audible subscriber since 2002 and you made me buy another subscription for my wife.
- Think Twice
from twhirl
yes but there is one problem with this approach. You have had the same five or so sponsors for years now, podcast growth has stagnated, and therefore you are going to have diminishing returns because you are preaching to the choir about the same products we already have etc.
- Mark
...and if you accuse me of endorsing something just because I got it for free I say "SCREW YOU!!!"
- Fleagle
Nigeria actually arrests, shuts down online scammers (Jacqui Cheng/Ars Technica) http://www.techmeme.com/091023...
Matt, David Knight and Mark liked this
it's a bit mean that headline to be honest, it suggests Nigerians don't do anything to stop crime
- Mark
What is dishonest, Mark? They have never arrested spammers before Project Eagle Claw according to the article. They've only conducted "cyber raids" and sent out petitions to stop spammers.
- Garmon Estes
My new iMac rocks (and so does Windows 7) - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
victed, rowlikeagirl, amygeek and 6 other people liked this
Vista crashes for you every few hours? Wtf?
- Mark
Mark: I have the 64-bit version of Vista and on a brand new machine it was constantly crashing. Really sucked. Probably was a bad display driver. Since getting Windows 7 I have not had a single crash.
- Robert Scoble
@Robert >I love Win7 for the same reason.
- Russellreno
Pics? Sorry I'm a sucker for viewing other people's workspaces.
- Steve Farnworth
Robert, why would you buy the dual and not wait for the quad? Just curious.
- Susan Scrupski
Susan: because I don't need even the dual for the most part. My heavy duty editing is done by Rocky on a huge Mac Pro.
- Robert Scoble
Rocky!
- michael sean wright
Win 7 is very stable
- Rob Cairns
@robert. thx. You just saved me $300. :-)
- Susan Scrupski
Forget more RAM, Hard disk - add more Rocky! :D
- Micah Wittman
from iPhone
Love Win7, haven't gotten the official release yet, but have been running the RC for like 3 months.
- Nathan Snyder
File this under "Best Footer on a Website Ever" - http://www.newtoyork.com/
Burcu Dogan, Michelle Darnell, George Brickner and 18 other people liked this
OMG thats awesome! I haven't laugh that hard today!
- Fee501st
I whole heartedly agree! and so true...
- Gary Oswald
"You're an asshole and your browser is an asshole" Best line ever!
- Fee501st
Wow! The whole rant could have stopped at "...best experience possible." But the brutal honesty afterwards? Wow!
- Devon Blugh
from twhirl
Who still uses IE6? I've always wondered that...
- Thomas
lol
- Carlos Urrutia
Corporate users who have no choice may still be on 6.
- Dave Friedel
they have a choice: resign
- Mark
Yeah, give up benefits, have the house foreclosed on... but use Firefox! LOL.
- Dave Friedel
If I recall I think IE6 is without tabs? Imagine the horror, seriously.
- Mark
In some cases, internal applications were written to work with crappy IE5 or 6, and don't work right with anything newer. Some companies hold back upgrades due to the cost of modernizing the applications. My personal favorite is Firefox, but it doesn't work with Active Directory security for internal apps on a Microsoft network.
- Dave Friedel
Yeah, that's the excuse we were always fed in web scripting classes - that they haven't moved due to internal websites and whatnot - but ffs, seriously IE 7 came out 3 years ago!
- Amy
Yep. That's life in large companies. Unfortunately they have the money to employ lots of people... and to put off updating their internal apps. See they don't care that you can't surf some site on the net. Unfortunately it encourages some office workers not to bother upgrading at home either and just be indifferent to browser version. Another argument for Cloud computing.
- Dave Friedel
It also implies that they haven't updated their pcs in FOREVER. These people work in Hell.
- Amy
A little harsh , but true and funny .
- Lisa zahara Hopkins
I've been in the position of trying to justify a six figure upgrade to a set of applications because they only worked on very old versions of IE. Without showing how it makes the company money, saying "people can't see some sites on the Internet" isn't enough to get approval for that much money to be spent on salaries vs other development. This is why I watch Revision3, to know there is a better world outside of multimillion dollar corporate hell.
- Dave Friedel
Excellento - loved the Miles Davis' covers too - our university seems to be locked into IE6 - it's like going back to the dark ages . . .
- Chris Loft
Ha!
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
I know someone who still uses IE6. He upgraded to IE7 and now wants to go back to IE6. Poor deluded guy.
- George Brickner
I gotta be honest, I'm a little hurt. I still use IE6...because I have to because my work won't upgrade because they've put to much money into systems that work with IE6 and I'm stuck with this piece of junk! It makes me cry. :(
- ChiliMac
The madness won't stop until MS stops supporting 6. I hope that happens sooner rather than later.
- ChiliMac
Verizon sticks it to the iPhone: http://phones.verizonwireless.com/motorol... - the timing might be good. Win 7 and now this. Will it spur an Anti-Apple backlash?
Eric Geller, Ryan, Michael King and 9 other people liked this
woooooah
- Mark
Why would this spur anti-Apple backlash, pray tell? This is very cocky marketing. Let's see how it works, first, before people start to hate their iPhones. And Windows 7? Enjoy your balloons! We've seen this Apple is in trouble stuff before. We'll see how it does once it's really in the wild. You've had this weird obsession w/bashing Apple ever since the Google voice stuff, calling them...
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- Bill Heald
It's the built up to the Release of the Storm 2 and the new Android phone from Google.
- George Mag
Verizon hasnt made a peep about the Storm 2. I think they are going all in on this Droid push.
- William
Ha! i wouldn't open my mouth about the storm after the first go 'round. but an android phone there's something. but knowing vzw's track record i just wonder how they are going to screw this phone up.
- rob sakowitz
If it weren't Android 2.0 with a full keyboard, 5mp camera, and Verizon 3G I might not have taken notice. I think Apple is ripe for plucking and this might well be it. Of course, there are 85,000 reasons not to leave the iPhone. The Android marketplace has a lot of catching up to do but at least it's an open platform.
- Leo Laporte
Bill, avoid the ad hominem attacks, and actually discuss what was in the link. All of those critiques are valid and important. Only apple Kool-Aid could make someone say a mission critical feature like multiple apps running isn't important.
- Matthew DeVries
I-don't care for the Android interface. Unless they've made it actually functional in *some* respect, then it's kinda pointless to advertise it. Also, bashing the touchscreen keyboard is a bad idea. Many people like it. I can go with either, myself, but a lot of people have gotten used to, and prefer, the touchscreen. With auto-correction that actually works, it's just as fast, if not faster.
- Otto
The fact that most of the discussion of Droid I've seen doesn't even mention the Palm Pre... except perhaps to say that Droid uses the same chipset... just reinforces my view that all the talk of de-throning the iPhone is a little pointless, and instead we're going to have fragmented, niche alternatives to the "mainstream" option, the iPhone.
- Ken Sheppardson
The people who are going to lash back at Apple are already doing so. Things aren't going to get any worse. AT&T is as bad as it'll ever be. The app store is as closed as it's going to get. Apple has nowhere to go but up, in that respect. While the geeked-out vocal minority might march off on some anti-Apple crusade, I don't see how "Anti-Apple Backlash" crosses the chasm, so to speak.
- Ken Sheppardson
Android and webOS are to iPhone what Linux and OS X are to Windows.
- Ken Sheppardson
I think the "openness" issue only matters to a tiny segment of their audience. There are 85K apps for the iPhone in just over 2 years. What is the upside of openness from a user perspective? At some point, it's all just meaningless techno-babble.
- Kevin Pedraja
Matthew, you need to read before you comment. I wasn't responding to the link in Leo's post. I was responding to Leo's post itself, and his "Anti-Apple Backlash" rhetoric. There was nothing ad-hominem in my "attacks" either. He has had this weird 'Apple is evil' thing going for a while now, and I think it's over the top and reflected in this post. And I said it before and I'll say it again: why do potentially great products that compete with Apple have to spur an Anti-Apple backlash?
- Bill Heald
You are again bundling ad hominem attacks in your statement that you're not making ad hominem attacks. Discuss the points of the post on it's merits. If you want to pull out a "Leo hates Apple" conspiracy theory, make your own post.....so I can hide it.
- Matthew DeVries
ouch.. nice ad.
- Uncle CW™
How I know FriendFeed is dead? Louis Gray's feed doesn't have many comments: http://friendfeed.com/louisgr...
Mark Essel, Captain Jack, Onur Kabadayi and 66 other people liked this
also mine doesn't have :)
- Enes TAYLAN
What comments?
- Jesse Stay
The rate of new subscribers to my own feed has slowed to a crawl. That's how I know. But Louis Gray's feed with hardly any comments? That's even worse.
- Dennis Jernberg
It's a Saturday at 1am, and the end of Blogworld Expo
- Jesse Stay
FriendFeed has never been all that busy on a Saturday night. My inane screencasts aren't helping. :)
- Louis Gray
Thank you Mark Zuckerberg. You're the God.
- Ahmet Alp Balkan
If you want comments / conversations, maybe you should learn another language: http://friendfeed.com/search... I see lots of turkish, italian & iranian commenters
- arjo
I'm still here...
- Patrick
Jesse and Louis: I love that you two are keeping a stiff upper lip, but, sorry, it's been very apparent to me that FriendFeed is changing. The influential geeks, if there were any here, have largely left and now FriendFeed is changing and will not be the same service a year from now that it was three months ago. I am writing a post that it has a future, but a different one. Be back in a...
more...
- Robert Scoble
The scary thing is that I know Louis & Jesse are in the same room commenting on this :)
- Mark Krynsky
My feed is always bustling, except on weekends (especially weekend nights).
- Beau Liening
With every negative post about FriendFeed the community dies a little. It's the MGs and the Scobles and the others that will kill FriendFeed.
- Jesse Stay
How do you know that, Mark? #wherestheproof
- Louis Gray
Regardless of the community I will always use it as a tool
- Jesse Stay
A community is only what you make of it.
- BLOGBloke
How you know Robert Scoble has nothing to do? He posts how a service is dead on said service.
- Uncle CW™
CW: true. But part of it is I'm hoping a thousand comment thread starts (that used to happen in the old days) telling me I'm wrong. So far five people have liked this thread and 12 have commented on it. That's not really a stunning refutal. Even for a Saturday night. And it's not the first time I've made this claim and it's not the first time I've gotten such a lukewarm rebuttal.
- Robert Scoble
Starting a post in the middle of the night on Saturday early Sunday, traditionally slow dead times for FF won't help.
- Uncle CW™
Sorry Robert, I'm not seeing the death. With any social network, there is a constant flow of people coming to and leaving the service. Sure, the early adopters will leave to play on the next new shiny service to come along. But there are still new people joining and still a core group of users that have been here for quite a while. Just because you are leaving doesn't mean everyone else is.
- Jeff P. Henderson
CW: again. This isn't the first time I've made this claim and at Blog World I had quite a few discussions with people who are noticing the same thing, even if they won't admit to such in public.
- Robert Scoble
Were back to the point in the cycle where Robert Scoble calls Friendfeed dead/dying.
- Andy Bakun
Jeff: I'm not leaving. You aren't listening.
- Robert Scoble
Could it be that everyone is sick of social media / tech reporting... NO... never... it couldn't possibly be the content... IT MUST BE THE SERVICE THAT'S WRONG... BURN IT, BURN IT WITH FIRE. It's frankly laughable that you base a service purely what you personally can get out of it in a professional sense Robert. Maybe FriendFeed is more social and doesn't fit into your self-promotion regime but my feed is still active. FriendFeed isn't dead... maybe you are just dead to FriendFeed.
- Johnny Worthington
It takes simple engagement to encourage comments on FriendFeed. I'm not seeing any less comments than I used to. If you ask the right questions, actually like things on FriendFeed (note that Scoble has stopped this), and encourage your audience to comment they will comment just as much as they always have.
- Jesse Stay
Jeff: Denial isn't helping. Discussions and activity are down. Robert's reduced use can't be given all the credit for that. The radio silence from FF/FB leadership is troubling. There are absolutely a lot of conversations here, but not in all the places they used to be.
- Louis Gray
Watch Jason Pollack's threads.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: I am. And most of the traffic he gets is coming from his Twitter accounts. When I do that I get engagement too. Even here.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you HAVE for the most part left. A majority of your posts now come from twitter and your frequency of comments and participation on this site is way down.
- Jeff P. Henderson
it is disheartening, well Robert you are part to this "death"
- ffcode
Robert, therefore your community will follow wherever you take them. It's not "FriendFeed's community". It's "Your community". Bring them back to FriendFeed and you'll see it change.
- Jesse Stay
Jeff: I can't keep focusing on a site that isn't getting developed. Sorry. That's not what I do.
- Robert Scoble
You people make me want to just shoot myself in the head,, cant you just let me have my fantasy for of a social network and let me pretend that your all my friends. Screw you robert... stop that crap,, your depressing me,,, I thought you followed me because you actually cared, or was that your damn autofollow bots ,,,,, and then he says friendfeed is dead hmmm wonder why.....
- Cjay
Louis, true, things have changed here on FF, but isn't some of that attributed to the normal ebb and flow that is seen on any social network? Not everyone stays engaged forever. It frankly takes a lot of time and effort to continuously participate at a significant level on any social network. Most of us have full time jobs that have nothing to do with social networks as well as family and other obligations for our time.
- Jeff P. Henderson
Robert, there's a difference between "not focusing" and "focusing on something else". Why be negative about FriendFeed when you can be positive about something that's better?
- Jesse Stay
Because Robert is scared of being left behind. He has to trash the old thing so everyone thinks he knows what the next thing is.
- Johnny Worthington
Jesse: I'm mostly just poking the bees nest by my negativity to see what comes out. So far crickets. And that is making me spend even more time elsewhere.
- Robert Scoble
STHUP! your killing me!!!!!!!!!!!
- Cjay
Yeah, I guess, in contrast, twitter has had a lot of development. They reskinned it inconsistently, and threw the hardcore tweeters a bone with adding "lists". Twitter has been stagnant for way longer than Friendfeed has.
- Andy Bakun
Robert, you do realize that it's 5AM on the east coast, right?
- Chris Heath
Jeff, I am as big a FriendFeed supporter as everybody here. If I hadn't pushed it early, this place would be very different. But I agree that people are moving elsewhere, even if this is still the best platform. We need to hear some guidance. Johnny, I understand your position, but Robert is not that thick-headed. He's trying to work with what is passed his way, and FriendFeed is stalled right now.
- Louis Gray
Chris: social media is world wide. When I was on the BBC the other night a ton of people all over the world contacted me.
- Robert Scoble
i'm just sayin'
- Chris Heath
Heh, everytime there's a "friendfeed is dead" comment, I notice that I had gotten 2 or 3 more subscribers in the previous couple of hours, _while_ I was sleeping on the couch.
- Andy Bakun
Robert, I totally understand your perspective, but I think you are a unique case. Most users criteria for using a site does not hinge on the rate of development of the site. Flickr is an excellent example. Flickr is a mature social site that receives few updates to its core functionality, yet it still has dedicate users that invest a significant amount of time there on a daily basis.
- Jeff P. Henderson
Johnny: at our neighborhood block party my neighbors have hardly even heard of Twitter or Facebook. Being left behind? I'm three years ahead of normal people. And I will go wherever the geeks go.
- Robert Scoble
I'm still on FriendFeed.
- Jesse Stay
Jeff: I never want to be most users. But the problem with FriendFeed is that most users had never even heard of it.
- Robert Scoble
that happens to me too andy, i'm about to hit the couch in a minute as I've been up for 21 hours and it's 5am - if i had been drinking tonight there's no way i could hold this conversation.
- Chris Heath
Jeff: Flickr was a huge success with the early adopter crowd before it went to Yahoo. FriendFeed isn't even close to being in the same league.
- Robert Scoble
Part of my love with FriendFeed was what it COULD BE in the future. So now that part of my fantasy is gone and I must see FriendFeed for what it is, not what it could be. THAT is a HUGE reason why I have moved much of my attention elsewhere.
- Robert Scoble
I will always use the best tools for the job and thus far this is it. I admit there is a lot of opportunity out there right now though so long as FriendFeed has slowed down their development. Until that happens, FriendFeed is the best tool for the job. That's not changing in any way for me.
- Jesse Stay
So why stir up crap like this post Robert. Smacks of arrogance and teasing
- Johnny Worthington
oh come on!
- Cjay
robert, if only friendfeed had a userbase the size of twitter, or facebook for that matter... maybe that's what i'll try and dream about tonight...
- Chris Heath
zzzzz
- Chris Heath
Maybe Friendfeed sold too soon then.
- Jeff P. Henderson
But Robert even if friendfeed looses all of its userbase the fact that it is a great place to have conversation can't be taken away
- ffcode
friendfeed is elite twitter is for everone else.
- Cjay
Johnny: now you are just being nasty. Why is it when a conversation doesn't go your way you have to bring up arrogance or teasing? This isn't coming from either of those places with me.
- Robert Scoble
ffcode: yes. And I'm pointing that out in the post I'm about to hit publish on.
- Robert Scoble
I think that this thread is evidence that FF is not dead yet...
- Jeff P. Henderson
So Robert, where are the geeks going? FaceBook? I would doubt it. Its a closed system. Geeks don't like that. Wave? Well there is no one there and its a service that is a collaboration mostly. So where are the influential geeks that you are speaking of going? If they are not here why are you not with them instead of causing a commotion here with blatant comment bait threads? Don't get me wrong you start some great conversations. This though is a old one that seems to be on repeat.
- Uncle CW™
friendfeed posts on twitter doesn't make sense even though the reverse is still legit
- ffcode
This is NOT teasing with me. I've dedicated more of my recent life (thousands of hours) to FriendFeed. This is SERIOUS business for me.
- Robert Scoble
Well if you want someone to tell you you're wrong, the last time I checked FF was not your own private Idaho for just you and your pals. I'm sure it's not in FF's business model either. Check your attitude at the door and make this place a little more 'friendly' and inclusive and maybe (just maybe) things will warm up a little. On the flipside, I'm sure your tongue is also in your cheek and hoping that FF management is listening and will get with the program. Am I right?
- BLOGBloke
CW: I'm studying 5,000 geeks over on Twitter. Most of whom are investing time there but not on Facebook or FriendFeed. Businesses? BIG TIME on Twitter. Celebrities? I had dinner last night with the guy who works with tons of them and he said they all are very dedicated to Twitter (except for what's her name). Facebook is getting some adoption, though, in the geek community.
- Robert Scoble
Guys, even if Robert is outnumbered here, let's suggest he is most likely right and not make it personal. Robert has been a longtime evangelist of the platform and is personally invested at risk to his personal reputation. (By invested, I mean in time, not money, lest that get asked)
- Louis Gray
BLOGBloke: sorry. You are wrong. FriendFeed has NO PEOPLE WORKING ON IT.
- Robert Scoble
Digging in our heels doesn't help. We need to learn if this can be a place to participate with no further changes ever, or if we want to scatter to the winds. Today, most people are happy enough with Facebook and Twitter, and that's not debatable, even if we know there is a better alternative.
- Louis Gray
No. You are not right BLOGBloke. I do not expect Mark Zuckerberg to dedicate any more resources to FriendFeed because of my nastiness.
- Robert Scoble
Robert and Louis well you are two awesome guys i have ever met and this happened through friendfeed, met a lot of great folks here. i think i know/ have some idea how you guys work and like you work till death attitude, and i respect that. but i would love you guys doing friendfeed more, remember the good old days ;)
- ffcode
Robert, I wish you were leading entrepreneurs to the opportunity and not leading them away. I agree there is a lack of leadership here from Facebook and the FriendFeed team, but to me that means there's opportunity. People won't discover that opportunity unless they are using FriendFeed. I'd rather focus on that in my posts and blog and elsewhere, rather than talk to the community itself. It's the entrepreneurs and opportunists I want to target, not the community.
- Jesse Stay
Interesting, I just received three new followers in the past 10 minutes. Not Dead Yet...
- Jeff P. Henderson
ffcode, I don't think my activity on FriendFeed has decreased at all.
- Louis Gray
I'm using FriendFeed just as much as before as well (maybe even a little more)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: I tried that for 18 months. It was OK when I thought FriendFeed has a cool future that was different from where it is today. Sorry, it isn't good enough for most people. For us, yes. For mainstream? No way.
- Robert Scoble
Louis i was pointing to Robert's i know you are here and it is great to have you here :)
- ffcode
I must have misunderstood you Robert... "How I know FriendFeed is dead?" is the perfect way to start a conversation on FriendFeed about FriendFeed...
- Johnny Worthington
Johnny: sorry, FriendFeed +is+ dead to most of the tech community.
- Robert Scoble
hey hey I left twitter for a reason..... its just you guys are still chewing on it, im sorry but i spit that grisil out right away..
- Cjay
Perhaps this thread will shake things up around here. Let's hope so.
- BLOGBloke
Robert, not sure you're understanding - I'm saying now that FriendFeed has stopped development this is an opportunity for other entrepreneurs to take the lead ahead of FriendFeed. Let's push them to do so rather than pushing the community away from FriendFeed. When someone has something better than FriendFeed, then we can all say "jump ship".
- Jesse Stay
Robert, my point is the rest of us outside the bubble don't care. The world exists outside the Valley
- Johnny Worthington
BLOGBloke: Facebook has 300 million users and you think a thread with 20 people in it will shake things up? Sorry, that's not how things work. Now, if there was a thousand message thread, that might get some people to wake up.
- Robert Scoble
Johnny: really? Where? :-)
- Robert Scoble
Johnny: when I talk with people outside the bubble they are barely discovering Facebook right now. Twitter is something they've heard about. FriendFeed? GIve me a freaking break.
- Robert Scoble
We're working on that thousand as we speak.
- BLOGBloke
BLOGBloke: so far I see 20 people participating here. When we hit 1,000 I'll come over to your side of the yard.
- Robert Scoble
Not everyone ON FriendFeed is inside the bubble... or frankly CARE about social media. You love talking about the car and it's parts, I love talking about where the car takes me.
- Johnny Worthington
Friendfeed to me is quality, an addtion to a mature social network like facebook.
- Cjay
Johnny: sorry. Everyone on FriendFeed is inside the bubble. If you claim otherwise you lose all credibility.
- Robert Scoble
Robert... I don't HAVE credibility...
- Johnny Worthington
Remember, it is after 2am here on the west and 5 am back east. Unlike yourself some geeks still like to sleep.
- BLOGBloke
i am with Robert his sample sizes are way larger than anyone else here and he studies them as in "study" yeah my friends laugh when i sent them my account link on friendfeed
- ffcode
Johnny: FriendFeed, at its height, only had a few hundred thousand users. THAT IS A BUBBLE. Actually, it's a pimple on the ass of Twitter which is a bruise on the ass of Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
Come on if its that bad then go back to myspace and twitter and see what you get...
- Cjay
Cjay: my friend Luke and I had a drink at the Ritz tonight and I guarantee that was better than what you get here, but that isn't any way to build a movement.
- Robert Scoble
Still don't care about that either... That's my point... I'm here for the people and the interaction.
- Johnny Worthington
Robert, with all due respect, just because you don't get quality out of FF doesn't mean nobody else does.
- Beau Liening
Johnny: cool. That keeps me coming back too, but it isn't any way to build a business or a movement. Most people don't care and if they do most people just want to talk with their friends on Facebook. Really, does FriendFeed give most people a hugely better experience than Facebook? No.
- Robert Scoble
The whole FF/FB comparison seems irrelevant to me - FB is a walled garden, and if they move far from it they will disenfranchise the current user base who wants a closed community of their friends. FF has always been about public aggregation, not followers. If we wanted walled communities, we should have all stayed on AOL. (I keep waiting for FB to buy an old media news company - we'll definitely know they are the AOL of the future then.)
- David Lounsbury
Beau: you aren't listening. I'm here cause I like the people here. but that's not what we're arguing about.
- Robert Scoble
David: you are wrong. Facebook is no longer a walled garden. You must have missed Facebook Connect. Check into it. Look at Huffington POst. They use it.
- Robert Scoble
DO ANYBODY NO WHY FRIENDFEED IS DEAD?
- Louis Gray
Robert. That is where you and I disagree. I get a better flavor of interaction here then Facebook. I have friends and have made friends here from all over the world I wouldn't have just through my circle of IRL friends on Facebook.
- Johnny Worthington
David: most people DO WANT walled communities. Most people, when they post their baby photos are NOT like me and Louis. They mostly want to keep those private to just their real life friends.
- Robert Scoble
Friendfeed is not dead.......whats dead is twitter.....
- Cjay
Johnny: you and I and the rest of the people here are weird.
- Robert Scoble
100% agree
- Johnny Worthington
Cjay: I really wish that were true. I hate Twitter (the company). I put a good effort into bringing Twitter here. I failed. It's done. Let's move on and admit that.
- Robert Scoble
Friendfeed is dying, not dead. And to use Louis' posts at this point in time is ridiculous, 1. It's mostly BWE stuff which I don't give a damn about, no offense Louis. 2. It's the weekend. 3. It's 5:30 on the East Coast.
- Jimminy Fuller
And that is why I like FriendFeed :-)
- Jesse Stay
Jimminy: FriendFeed is not really dead. Remember, when a blogger says something is dead that just means it isn't interesting anymore.
- Robert Scoble
Isn't this an argument that the best technologies don't always win? People gravitate to Twitter because any lamebrain can use it. Same thing for FB.
- BLOGBloke
I wonder if people had this discussion about Geocities, Hotmail and Altavista... We like to think that the current time is the peak of innovation...
- Johnny Worthington
Weird, hey I resemble that comment!
- Jeff P. Henderson
well robert you keep what your kill I guess...
- Cjay
Johnny: yes, we did. Geocities IS dead (gone). So is Altavista. Hotmail is still doing OK. But among early adopters it's dead.
- Robert Scoble
My homepage is still Geocities
- Jesse Stay
facebook can be classified most folks there are just for that boy-girl thing or just to interact with the friends they know in real, friendfeed misses its good old days and i blame Robert for that, for my feed doesn't look that good now even with so many subscriptions
- ffcode
Robert, I forgot that, following my 3rd point about it being 5:30.
- Jimminy Fuller
if Mark is adding FF inside the FB feed then he needs to extend this silly 5000 friends limit as I can't use FB properly until he does
- Thomas Power
BLOGBloke: oh, did you just call FriendFeed the Betamax of social software?
- Robert Scoble
Jesse: Geocities is closing down, you will soon need to find a new home page.
- Robert Scoble
Anybody who would rather talk to the 'puter instead of people in the real world are weird. Goes for me too.
- BLOGBloke
I wonder if in 10 years we will talk of Twitter and Facebook in the same sense...
- Johnny Worthington
I will move to Freeservers then
- Jesse Stay
Johnny: I think we will know a lot more about how the future will be by the end of 2010. You won't need to wait 10 years.
- Robert Scoble
Betamax! How old do you think I am anyway (*_*)
- BLOGBloke
RE FB Connect, maybe, but they're positioning it as a way to pull people in to the garden. From the site: "Enable over 300 million Facebook users to share your content with their friends on Facebook. " There is a pattern in that sentence...
- David Lounsbury
Jesse: what's weird is I'm not even sure what my home page is anymore. I mostly use Tweetie on my iPhone.
- Robert Scoble
I am going to ask my Uncle to revive Freeservers (actually, freeservers.com is still around). That will be the new FriendFeed.
- Jesse Stay
Robert, by the way thanks for follow on FF,,,, see like i said Friendfeed is Quality, its not about quantity...
- Cjay
David: of course. Facebook Pages are open to the public and Google. That's where you'll see some "FriendFeed-like" innovation.
- Robert Scoble
Cjay: the real question is whether I will add you to one of my Twitter lists!?!
- Robert Scoble
bahhh 8D
- Cjay
FriendFeed is dead (isn't interesting anymore) for Ex-FriendFeed employers, no new features, no upadates, no documentation.. and this is sad, because (hope) we'll see FF on FB in months.. and FriendFeed is still the most interesting way to discuss on Internet (sorry Wave, sad but true for now).
- CantorJF
What's worse here is that the positive Robert Scoble is dead. Assuming that Robert posts on this, his last posts will be on FriendFeed slowing down (Negative), on Startups paying to pitch (Negative), Digital iPhone cheapskates (Negative), Google Wave x 2 (Negative and Negative), Why Office 2010 will be locked out (Negative). That would be zero positive posts in October. I want the happy Robert back.
- Louis Gray
Me too
- Jesse Stay
Louis: I'm bummed out because FriendFeed is dead. Sorry.
- Robert Scoble
+Like Louis :)
- CantorJF
Personally Twitter is a horrible service and Ap. Mainly because it has turned into MySpace. Everyone is there. YUCK. I've been going back to some of my old Forums and IRC Servers/Channels. Plus here on FF. I've been able to keep all of it up. Different groups for different interests. Look just because my Geek friends are not on here, but are on the IRC server they own and manage doesn't...
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- Uncle CW™
I like the happy Scoble
- Jesse Stay
As am I. In the meantime, I am excited about Pubsubhubbub and innovation in other places. I am stoked about the Salmon Protocol. I hope people saw that.
- Louis Gray
Louis: I've been more positive, though, about the iPhone and the app and business models there (developers there are rocking and rolling).
- Robert Scoble
I think we need to a (real) life. Maybe that's the answer.
- BLOGBloke
oh the new feature yeah yeah I saw that twitter lists god now my world has changed forever heheheh...
- Cjay
BLOGBloke: like I said, I was at the Ritz with a friend tonight. That was real life and was pretty damn good!
- Robert Scoble
homepages have lost their relevance, things are all spread now, people get to know you better from your social profiles
- ffcode
Louis, I don't want happy Robert back, I want to know what Robert wants and thinks coming in the future.
- Jimminy Fuller
Jimminy: I think we're in a period of consolidation and that pisses me off! :-)
- Robert Scoble
Agreed, Jimminy. Just talking openly, as he is. I have a great respect for Robert, and on most days, I assume the feeling is mutual. I brought Robert here. Can he bring us somewhere else, or should I keep looking and let you guys know? :)
- Louis Gray
There's your answer and I've been coming to the same conclusion myself.
- BLOGBloke
Louis: I will follow you anywhere. But I will ask Jesse for confirmation to see if you are really onto something. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
I'm all for going to a new/better service than FF....but so far, I haven't seen any.
- Beau Liening
I like this - together, the 3 of us will rule the world ;-)
- Jesse Stay
yes, the thruth is that if FF is dead I would miss it
- Luigi Centenaro
Beau: truth be told, me neither. But FriendFeed's limitations do piss me off. It got so close to something really brilliant.
- Robert Scoble
Jesse: I thought we already ruled the world.
- Robert Scoble
;-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert, shhh - they're not supposed to know that!
- Jesse Stay
Have you guys read Seth Godin's "The dip" Friendfeed is facing the dip right now. The dip is where success happens.If you manage to get through the dip, you can become one of the best in the world.
- Tapio Kulmala
What's really amazing is Rob is having a conversation with all of simultaneously and still managing to keep ahead of the curve. How fast do you type? 5,000 words a minute"
- BLOGBloke
Tapio: I would agree but FriendFeed's team has already been disbanded. So the dip is going to be permanent. At least that's my thesis and I'm waiting for someone to prove me wrong.
- Robert Scoble
I've been in the "Dip" for 10 years. There's still hope.
- BLOGBloke
BLOGBloke: I typed 35 words per minute with two fingers. Then I took a typing class. I'm a bit faster now. (Best class I took in college, by the way).
- Robert Scoble
I do agree that since the buyout, development has ceased. Hopefully that won't last too much longer and they'll make FF even better. I really hope FF doesn't get fully integrated into FB.
- Beau Liening
Funny all this is just RSS, and it would seem that if you want more, then you should focus on what RSS can really do for you, and not what you let a service like FF and TW do with RSS for you.
- Cjay
Beau: FriendFeed can NOT be integrated into Facebook. FriendFeed was designed for a million users. Facebook has 300 million. It would need to be rewritten for Facebook's infrastructure. That is NOT going to happen!
- Robert Scoble
That makes me feel much better. =)
- Beau Liening
My major was typing. I still have the diploma to prove it. Momma is so proud.
- BLOGBloke
What WILL happen is that some of the better stuff you see here WILL be rewritten for Facebook. Like Real Time Search. Or real time comments. Or better aggregation. Or better messaging.
- Robert Scoble
Still leaves FF in the dust though. =(
- Beau Liening
Paul Buchheit wrote Gmail. If I were Zuckerberg I'd have him working on messaging. Google Wave is a freaking disaster. Put a nail in that!
- Robert Scoble
I'm sure most of you know what RSS is right...and you do realize that this is the backbone of these services.
- Cjay
Beau: like I said, FriendFeed is done for the most part. If we see any more features I'll be very shocked. I'm just happy that the servers are staying up for the most part.
- Robert Scoble
yup google wave was a ripple if that....
- Cjay
Cjay: one of my best friends is Dave Winer. My son's initials are RSS (seriously, they are). I know a little bit about the subject.
- Robert Scoble
Not that I've gotten a wave invite...but from everything I've read about it, its way pre Alpha....I'll wait for the beta...
- Beau Liening
Jesse: the criticisms will probably end up bringing more curious users to friendfeed :)
- Mike Chelen
from fftogo
Beau: I don't think the beta is going to be able to save it. The only reason we're all paying attention to Wave is because it's from Google. Heck, that's really the reason I paid attention to FriendFeed instead of SocialThing or Jaiku.
- Robert Scoble
It would seem to me that an open social network based on RSS wouild be the way to go.
- Cjay
would love to have more features on ff and i am amazed by this phenomenon called Robert Scoble and Louis keeping such a low profile, way to go guys
- ffcode
Mike: in my experience that isn't happening. The growth of new accounts here is slowing way down.
- Robert Scoble
Leo laporte was talking about this at one time
- Cjay
Cjay: RSS is making a comeback, but I don't think it's fast enough. We're not using RSS here to talk with each other. That's XMPP (which is one of the protocols Google Wave is built on).
- Robert Scoble
So if the 3 of us (Robert, Louis, and me) rule the world, and Louis and I both say stay on friendfeed who wins? ;-)
- Jesse Stay
get it? "Stay" on FriendFeed (just noticed that)
- Jesse Stay
Robert, I thought we were using SUP, though it probably is on XMPP's backbone.
- Jimminy Fuller
It's 2:45am on a Saturday, and Robert is getting a stream of comments. I wish I had something to hire him to promote.
- Cristo
Jesse: again, I'm not leaving FriendFeed. So I'm a "Stay" vote too. But the three of us isn't enough, unfortunately.
- Robert Scoble
hmmm I thought this was just an updated xml file that everyone can tune into kinda like your blog feed
- Cjay
Robert, but are you encouraging others to stay on friendfeed? :-)
- Jesse Stay
Jimminy: I thought SUP was only used for aggregating stuff from services.
- Robert Scoble
(/me likes "Stay" votes) :-)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: truth be told, not anymore. I spent 18 months doing that. To do that now would be a losing proposition for me.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you're right, I think it's time for bed.
- Jimminy Fuller
Jimminy: yeah, I gotta finish this blog and then work more on my Twitter lists.
- Robert Scoble
I have the answer. We'll all pool our resources and buy FF. I've got 25 cents in my pocket and I can always raid the kid's piggy-bank. How about you?
- BLOGBloke
Robert, therefore you are outvoted by Louis and I ;-)
- Jesse Stay
BLOGBloke: I left Vegas with $100 in my pocket because I was too busy to gamble it away. So there y ou go! :-)
- Robert Scoble
And we also have a Realtime Distributed Environment in Socnodes, but Tornado is definitely where it's at.
- Jimminy Fuller
well jaiku is all open source now might go real good with google wave....8p
- Cjay
Identica is opensourced also, lets build a better Twitter and Friendfeed.
- Jimminy Fuller
I'm leaving Vegas with Louis Gray's money in my pocket - I can contribute that :-)
- Jesse Stay
truly - why the hell can't FF be integrated into the FB feed when they open FB up?
- Thomas Power
See Robert you just cant get this love anywhere else but on friendfeed....
- Cjay
Wrong Scoble, Chris.
- Jimminy Fuller
I was almost blocked by him, I had to talk my way out of that one.
- Jimminy Fuller
Thomas: again: FriendFeed's infrastructure can NOT deal with 300 million users.
- Robert Scoble
Thomas, it's up to you and me to make Ecademy the next FriendFeed.
- Louis Gray
Cjay: you haven't seen my Twitter account, have y ou? :-)
- Robert Scoble
Looks like I was wrong. There's lots of love to go around here. Can you feel it?
- BLOGBloke
Here's my blog post, titled "The Second Life of FriendFeed?" http://scobleizer.posterous.com/the-sec...
- Robert Scoble
Does it involve Second Life?
- Cristo
So we should jump to Posterous? :-)
- Jesse Stay
No. Other than Second Life received a lot of hype, then a lot of derision, and now is a growing and profitable business.
- Robert Scoble
Jesse. You can. We'll wait here.
- Robert Scoble
Thomas: again: FriendFeed's infrastructure can NOT deal with 300 million users. - Robert Scoble - are you absolutely sure, because why buy it if they can't? Thomas, it's up to you and me to make Ecademy the next FriendFeed. - Louis Gray
- Thomas Power
Thomas: my friends at Facebook tell me they bought FriendFeed for the talent, not the product.
- Robert Scoble
Louis what would you like us to do, we can only build it slowly not overnight?
- Thomas Power
This is one of those epic quickfire Scoble threads that I haven't seen in a long time. There's life in the old gal yet.
- Roberto Bonini
I think Guy Kawasaki is the next FriendFeed. He has involvement in Posterous, Tweetmeme (link tracking), SocialToo (utility), and Objective Marketer (analytics)
- Jesse Stay
I understand the need for talent Robert but why throw away the best product in the world when FB relatively speaking cannot hold a candle to FF?
- Thomas Power
Thomas: sorry, that is simply not true. FF can't hold a candle to Facebook. Why? Because Facebook runs with 300 million people on top of it. FriendFeed can NOT do that.
- Robert Scoble
Nope it's not Guy he's already too famous - only real geeks can build the best mousetraps - Guy's a marketing man
- Thomas Power
FriendFeed was built on a handful of servers. Facebook is running on 30,000 servers. TOTALLY DIFFERENT SCALE.
- Robert Scoble
And TOTALLY DIFFERENT INFRASTRUCTURE. Not even close to the same thing.
- Robert Scoble
Exactly right Scoble.
- Roberto Bonini
Facebook and Twitter were both built on a handful of servers. Let's not kid ourselves. None of these services started out big.
- Cristo
@Thomas .. the best doesn't always win. Just ask Microsoft.
- BLOGBloke
Cristo: it doesn't matter where they started. It matters where they are now.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, of course it matters where they started. How else would you be motivated as a startup company starting now? Should Microsoft or Apple not tried because IBM was big?
- Cristo
Cristo: most of the startups I know are building on cloud servers like Rackspace Cloud or Amazon S3. Not on their own infrastructure. Facebook might be one of the last companies to build their own infrastructure.
- Robert Scoble
Facebook is the next Microsoft. You heard it here first.
- BLOGBloke
Cristo: Steve Wozniak told me they didn't start Apple to compete with IBM. And building a PC isn't like building a web service. Not a good analogy.
- Robert Scoble
Does that matter? It's whether you should try, not how you implement it.
- Cristo
I understand FB is winning the market cap game and will likely IPO next year and acquire Linkedin too but they are NOT winning the best mousetrap game, that's FF.
- Thomas Power
BLOGBloke: Facebook is the next Google. Google is the next Microsoft. Microsoft is the next IBM. IBM is the next DEC. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Thanks Robert for that info. I worked at both Apple AND Microsoft. But I'm sure you have better info.
- Cristo
I stand corrected.
- BLOGBloke
Thomas: you sound like one of those guys I sold a Betamax VCR to.
- Robert Scoble
Cristo: sounds like you can't hold a job! Just kidding. I'm the same way.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: it seems a competition for attention exists between the more popular and the more esoteric platforms
- Mike Chelen
from fftogo
Infrastucture is mostly hardware. Facebook's architecture is not perfect. They only allow us to have 5000 friends. It tells something about the scalability of the architecture. We don't know how well Friendfeed's really scales..
- Tapio Kulmala
Robert: I agree.. nobody I know either knows about or uses FF, and I barely scratch the surface. I was one of the most active users I know on Facebook until my account was "disabled" this week. I won't be investing any more time into that unless they re-enable my account. I love FF but doubt that my audience will adopt it any time soon... wish I had been at bwe09!
- ASKJDOG
Mike: that's always true. Every once in a while the more esoteric becomes the more popular. I was hoping that was the case with FriendFeed but it wasn't to be.
- Robert Scoble
I'm not arguing about scalability Robert I understand 300m is 300 times 1 million but FF remains the best mousetrap so Mark Z MUST integrate the best bits of FF into FB that's all. I loved my Betamax and thank you for being so cheeky to an Englishman in this place.
- Thomas Power
ASKJDOG: heh, I've been through that. My Facebook account was disabled two years ago.
- Robert Scoble
Thomas: I KNEW it! :-)
- Robert Scoble
are you saying they are going to hold the 5000 limit because of scalability?
- Thomas Power
Robert: I read about that fiasco.. I can't get over the fact that they get away with taking away your access to your own data.. with no real way to dispute or contact them.
- ASKJDOG
Thomas, I don't know the reason. Architecture and/or scalability could be one.
- Tapio Kulmala
Anybody remember what was the most popular service 18 years ago? Yes, you all laugh about it now. It's not that different.
- Cristo
ASKJDOG: lots of Web 2.0 companies do that, unfortunately. It's one reason why I spread my attention out across a number of different services. At least that way you can find me somewhere.
- Robert Scoble
Facebook threw me out too. Gotta love it.
- BLOGBloke
So what replaces FF? ..or not replaces but would be more widely used by less techy people? More Twitter? Echo via one's blogs? something else?
- ASKJDOG
Someday, I'm going to be interviewed by Robert, and it's going to be super awkward. At least for me. ;)
- Cristo
From Robert's Blog Post. I couldn't agree more... "Will FriendFeed turn out to be like Second Life? I think it could. There will always be some people who want to be on some service other than the popular ones. There ARE people out there who hate Twitter and Facebook and want to hang out on a tool that more fits their personality. FriendFeed DOES have a future there. "
- Jeff P. Henderson
Cristo, the telephone or Usenet?
- Jimminy Fuller
Jimmi, AOL.
- Cristo
well I'm still on FB and completely stuck at 5000. FB is punishing me for building their network with my friends. Why do they do that?
- Thomas Power
ASKJDOG: we're all waiting for Louis Gray to answer that question. But why does anything need to replace it? If it stays the same as it is now we'll be just happy staying here. The problem is that no one else will join us. As long as we're OK with that FriendFeed is just fine!
- Robert Scoble
Ok Robert so I took a look at your "The Second Life of FriendFeed?" post... Do you think friendfeed will be another feature of facebook or will friendfeed stand on its own? You do know that facebook added some kind of tab feature to add friendfeed right into the facebook profile.
- Cjay
Chris, AOL was around back then, I can't remember I was a tot.
- Jimminy Fuller
ASKJDOG: I drank a glass of whisky tonight. No one sits around asking "what will replace that glass?"
- Robert Scoble
Jimmi, I can remember, but I keep drinking to try to forget. ;)
- Cristo
Cjay: I think they will be separate forever but that some features might come across. Real time search is definitely one I expect to see (Facebook was already working on that itself).
- Robert Scoble
Robert: lol.. good point.. I'm looking for ways to engage my web audience but it's a very different audience to yours. I like the whisky they don't necessarily :)
- ASKJDOG
LOL @ "a pimple on the ass of Twitter which is a bruise on the ass of Facebook" - nice one Robert Scoble! And very much agree with Jesse Stay: writing is on the wall and it may spell "Huge Opportunity" for the next upstart SN hub that gets the UX just right.
- Dan Freeman
We need to create a million bogus accounts on FB. Raise a little hell, watch it implode and buy FF for pennies on the dollar. Anyone up for a barbecue?
- BLOGBloke
being able to write efficient server software is definitely one of the talents brought by the ff team, so these services should scale as well as anyone's
- Mike Chelen
from fftogo
Robert's problem is that I think he doesn't know who to listen to online. It's just a random walk through whoever's-online.
- Cristo
Cristo: oh, wait until you see my lists over on Twitter!
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I haven't been given a good reason to actively use Twitter yet.
- Cristo
Oh, and Cristo, I interview a lot of people I have taken on online. Actually those are some of the most fun interviews because we both usually are surprised!
- Robert Scoble
Robert's lists on Twitter 1) Geeks, 2) Not Geeks
- Jeff P. Henderson
Cristo: I've given you more than 6,000 reasons to use Twitter here: http://twitter.com/scoblei... -- you're telling me that none of those people or Tweets sound interesting? I guess that's cool.
- Robert Scoble
Jeff: that would be a funny list, actually!
- Robert Scoble
"Cristo, I interview a lot of people I have taken on online." -- This sounds inappropriate, but perhaps it is late and I have a corrupted mind.
- Cristo
I'm glad you have a sense of humor ;-)
- Jeff P. Henderson
Don't forget the "Ignore" list.
- BLOGBloke
debated with, probably would be better.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I'd rather you just give me the one reason.
- Cristo
Cristo: one URL. 6,000 reasons. :-)
- Robert Scoble
The main problem I have with Twitter is that it very hard to hold a conversation there. That is why I much prefer FF.
- Jeff P. Henderson
Jeff: that's why most people don't like FF actually. They really don't like talking with you. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Perhaps, and it's just a wild guess, it's why we're having the conversation HERE!
- Cristo
You call this a conversation?
- BLOGBloke
BLOGBloke: it's something, that's for sure! If we did this over on Twitter all of our real followers would have unfollowed us an hour ago.
- Robert Scoble
Well it certainly isn't an argument at this point.
- Jimminy Fuller
This is just chat... a better system for chat is IRC, It's so much faster. I never did really understand why people keep trying to reinvent the wheel.. All of these systems like friendfeed and twitter and whatever else seem really slow to me, but I put up with it because I guess people need it.
- Cjay
Right, which is an interesting (and somewhat sad) reality about human nature. A service that you can just send your random thoughts into the ether is more popular than one that enables conversation, because people just want to feel important without getting feedback.
- Cristo
Cjay: sorry, IRC sucks. I've gone into why before. But it does and I'm tired so I'll leave the details for another day.
- Robert Scoble
Cjay: keep in mind I helped moderate Leo Laporte's chat room in the mid 1990s so I know IRC pretty damn intimately.
- Robert Scoble
cristo makes a point
- Cjay
Cristo: it's not just about feeling important. It's about simplicity. It's about being able to control who comes into your view (you really can't very well here).
- Robert Scoble
Also, most people just don't like participating. For them their 30 minutes on the web every day is more about getting informed and being entertained. Twitter is great for that.
- Robert Scoble
Hardly anyone comes into your view on Twitter. On Facebook, lots of people you know and don't want coming into your view do, unforunately.
- Cristo
Cristo: weird. On Twitter I have 5,000 coming into my view. On Facebook I have 1,500.
- Robert Scoble
I think IRC is to fast for most people to feel warm about it..
- Cjay
Robert, you are getting a lot of SPAM disguised as actual thought on Twitter. On Facebook, you're getting old friends and relatives that are inarticulately trying to communicate with you and sometimes in embarrassingly ways.
- Cristo
Cristo: not true. Every single person I've added into Twitter is someone I want on my home page. Not a single piece of spam has made it there.
- Robert Scoble
I actually like Facebook for connecting with people.. shame I won't be using it any more. Tho I'm using Twitter more and more It's difficult to see a structured conversation.
- ASKJDOG
I will have to say Facebook has crazy ways of knowing who you might know.
- Cjay
ASKJDOG: Twitter isn't for structured conversations. But you can include a link to one over here. That's what I do.
- Robert Scoble
I'm using SPAM loosely. Any Tweets that are actively promoting something they have no idea I'm interested in is SPAM to me.
- Cristo
Cristo: that's noise, not spam.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Yes! I noticed you do that.. and very effectively.. I will try it.
- ASKJDOG
I feel spread too thin across too many places - but FF is still quite lively among who I subscribe to
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
I'm off the bed now. Thanks for being a good sport Rob and I hope you're feeling better about FF now. It really is the best SN out there and it wouldn't be same without you. Goodnight to all my friendly FriendFeeders.
- BLOGBloke
"Imma gonna let you continue with this thread, but first I wanna say that Rackspace is the best cloud service in the business, ever!"
- Cristo
Bed? It's lunch-time here
- Tapio Kulmala
BLOGBloke: thanks. nothing I read here tonight changed my opinion unfortunately. But I'm still here.
- Robert Scoble
"Twitter isn't for structured conversations." Robert,,, if thats the case then should i go back to letting people know things like "I'm washing my dog and I just ran out of soup, I need to run to walmart, be back in 10..." ??
- Cjay
Our Windows 7 party is over! Actually, it was my wife's but I helped out even though I don't like WIndows. Oops. Maybe I should have tweeted that.
- Cristo
Chris, how did it go?
- Jimminy Fuller
Jimmi, really good actually. We really made a lot of progress cleaning up the loft. It was like two weeks worth of work in a couple days. And the food & wine went over really well.
- Cristo
Sorry Cristo, I think you meant to post that on Twitter ;-)
- Jeff P. Henderson
Jeff, you mean I didn't? I'm so confused.
- Cristo
Chris, you didn't spend enough time staring at the ice cubes you may have liked Windows if you would have stared at them longer. The message was Windows 7 is amazing.
- Jimminy Fuller
If I say @Jimminy will that send it to twitter?
- Cristo
Cristo, I'm sorry, conversation about Twitter comments is not allowed here...
- Jeff P. Henderson
There you go, now you have it all figured out.
- Jeff P. Henderson
Where is my new Sonos controller @?
- Cristo
@Cristo
- Jeff P. Henderson
I'll receive it if you do that yes.
- Jimminy Fuller
Robert, either way it still feels like 2 hours of my life I will never get back, FFFTW!
- Cjay
And of course it takes a Scoble post proclaiming FriendFeed dead to provoke a big chat like this. Of course, with my mere 250 or so subscribers, it would never work for me...
- Dennis Jernberg
@Try looking under the couch cushion.
- Jeff P. Henderson
If this is the tech elite, I wonder how dumb the conversations are over on facebook.
- Cristo
#pound her - Photos or it didn't happen...
- Jeff P. Henderson
@Facebook, My cat just did a backflip off the couch...
- Jeff P. Henderson
What the matter, did everyone fall asleep?
- Jeff P. Henderson
I rarely get a comment on even one post. I guess I'm missing something...
- Dennis Jernberg
@The_Club Did you see that chick??
- Jimminy Fuller
Robert: earlier adoption of a service ensures a longer delay before observing widespread appeal. this may be a stronger indication your prescience rather than sluggishness by friendfeed
- Mike Chelen
from fftogo
@Jimmy, we need photos.
- Jeff P. Henderson
Clearly Robert went to bed, because I'm not blocked yet. ;)
- Cristo
I think Robert just took time out to write another blog post entitled "The third coming of Friendfeed"...
- Jeff P. Henderson
Okay, I'm done with this thread. If you guys want to make sarcastic and sophomoric comments. FIne! ..........Let's just do it on another thread. :)
- Cristo
Cjay: one nice thing about ff compared with irc is that it is web-browser accessible, without addons like chatzilla or 3rd party sites like mibbit. they have many similarities otherwise, which is one of my reasons for liking ff so much :)
- Mike Chelen
from fftogo
Robert, the amount of comments is not necessarily a good indicator of the service health; from my point of view their quality is much more significant. A matter of signal VS noise, you know.
- Gilgamesh
Well I think IRC is still fast, clean and sleek, you want to follow, you join a channel, you want to be followed you create a channel. Friendfeeds comments are more like a fast forum arena and twitter is more like porno for pundits.
- Cjay
I think the killer mac app/shiny new piece of tech/deep-geek-inside-joke friendfeed is dead. But; its days (as a sort of hot-house for geeks) were numbered from the start. What remains to be seen, is what becomes of it between now and the time Facebook pulls the plug.
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Over 360 comments in 3 hours on a platform which is "dead" isn't that bad at all.
- Mike Hellers
But I have to wonder if this isn't the natural progression of every social network. Myspace is a ghost town, nobody talks about Friendster... but going back further, how long did anyone stay with their favorite BBS? Why are news groups now only the domain of the totally hardcore? I think Friendfeed, while never a household name, has had it's day. I don't think it has to do with Facebook or Friendfeed's leadership, it just is the way it is. And one day soon, we are all going to be burying Facebook too.
- Ciaoenrico
RT @mikehellers Over 360 comments in 3 hours on a platform which is "dead" isn't that bad at all
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
Mike - Well, 360 comments on an incendiary post from the guy who's nearly synonymous with Friendfeed. Otherwise tumbleweeds really have been blowing through this place for some time.
- Ciaoenrico
It means that users are frustrated because of this FriendFeed's acquisition by Facebook consequences, and want to tell it (once again. Again 'till..?)
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
The problem with FriendFeed was that the community broke down. It became far too much about who could gain the most attention, and not about interesting discussion. I think the Facebook takeover was just the excuse people needed to jump ship. Interestingly enough, since the DMU group moved over from Flickr, I am using FF more than ever. There is a proper community in the group, which gives me a reason to come back many times each day.
- Chris Nixon
from BuddyFeed
wow! I just feel like sombodies bitch here! 8D 8p~"~'""
- Cjay
I'm going to bed....
- Cjay
Robert: Be careful, you might find yourself back in the SUL ;)
- Nir Ben Yona
Nir: I never was in Twitter's SUL but I sure am on a lot of people's lists!
- Robert Scoble
By the way, I can't wait for you to see Twitter's new lists. Then you'll see that the SUL really is deader than a doornail.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: OMG, can't believe you're still awake. You know my opinion, Twitter veterans should be there. Anyway, how on earth can you build the lists if you have to pick those users one at the time? I find it way too annoying.
- Nir Ben Yona
Nir: it doesn't matter anymore. Twitter is about to start a new game with "lists" and now it's about reputation and influence and credibility and all that.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Do you think most people will make their lists public? In that case it might be a "game changer", like you've said.
- Nir Ben Yona
guess what - 99% of twitter users wont make a list :) and im not sure i agree completely with robert - those on the default list will naturally be added to more lists making it the same game - which is against what winer thought it would be.
- Allen Stern
still here, still occasionally comment on LG threads.
- Mike Nencetti
Twitter is down again. Not even a Fail Whale which is on my favorite list. Just down.
- Eric Logan
Eric: it's up here, mostly. The damn API has been barfing all evening.
- Robert Scoble
Allen: I totally disagree with you on the lists thing. I've already added 1,000 new people because of the new lists feature.
- Robert Scoble
Unfotunately, I'm finding myself agreeing with Robert Scoble (which is new to me). I've been getting far fewer comments and likes than before. That in turn gives me less to act on, so my activity has dropped precipitously, too. But even with my much lower activity, FFholic says I'm ~400th most active. 6 months ago, I wouldn't have ranked in the top 5000 with such low activity.
- Jason Huebel
I knew as soon as FacePOOP bought them the Party was over!! Garbage is as Garbage does!! ;))
- Billy Warhol
It's not dead, yet...
- David Cook
Twitter's new list feature is fantastic. And yes, I have made my lists public. This is my take on the whole thing: http://friendfeed.com/app103... It's going to take me quite awhile to get everyone sorted though. If they had come out with this feature months ago when I had only around 200 people to sort it would have been so much easier. But lists on Twitter or...
more...
- April Russo (app103)
The social media learning curve: many people quickly learn that articles posted on high-quality primary news sites and blogs are more valuable and useful than the comments posted in response to those articles on social media sites. They try to allocate their time wisely, to focus on the more important over the less important. That's why I spend much more time in Feedly than in...
more...
- Sean McBride
After participating in this conversation, for me there is one obvious truth that has surfaced from it all. Community is not the technology .. it's the people who drive it, and this thread proves there is still a thriving community here at FF.
- BLOGBloke
MG Siegler on techcrunch: "Previously, FriendFeed had committed to keeping the site running indefinitely despite their new jobs at Facebook. And it has remained running, but the site’s innovation, always its key attribute, has been completely halted. And perhaps as a vote of no confidence, previously rabid users are now largely staying away." http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Gilgamesh
Previously rabid Friendfeed users who are now staying away: to where are they migrating? Have they discovered platforms of equal or superior quality for sharing and discussing news? I haven't.
- Sean McBride
So sad, I just discovered FriendFeed around the buy out. We have to talk it up to our friends so it doesn't die!
- Nathan Snyder
I'm dieing!
- Zachary TG
so sad
- michael sean wright
The future of Friendfeed: a team of visionary developers needs to pick up from where the original Friendfeed creators left off, and aggressively push forward the platform's feature set. The basic platform is solid, but still primitive.
- Sean McBride
I fail to see why continued innovation is so critical when we have a platform that is already head and shoulders above anything else out there. Seems to me the only people who truly care are the early adopters and uber tech geeks, both of which are prone to jumping ship when the next new shiny service comes along regardless of how good the present service is. For the rest of us, we have...
more...
- Jeff P. Henderson
+15 Jeff!
- Micah Wittman
from iPhone
hmm, FF looks alive from here. the apparent halt in development is certainly attempted murder, tho.
- Joe Silence
If the current incarnation of Friendfeed had assembled the optimal feature set, it wouldn't be flatlining (or downtrending) on Compete.com. There is much room for improvement. (I've made numerous suggestions in the past -- consult the archives.)
- Sean McBride
Sean, it's pretty dang close. I do agree that over time, other services will either add all of the features that FF has or innovate and develop cool features that FF does not have. So the stopping of development will definitely kill FF in the long run. But in the near term, I have little problem with the present feature set here compared with my options elsewhere.
- Jeff P. Henderson
Jeff -- at the moment, I don't see any other platform out there that is as capable as Friendfeed for sharing and discussing news -- despite my lengthy wish list for new features. That is why I am curious about where many former Friendfeeders are migrating to. Are some of them perhaps withdrawing from social media altogether? I haven't seen any alternative platforms recommended here.
- Sean McBride
I think many techies are getting their feet wet with Wave right now. Time spent looking elsewhere - whether we find something usable or not - still translates to less time on FriendFeed ...
- Dan Freeman
My personal blog post, feel free to share with other non-FriendFeeders http://snyderxc.blogspot.com/2009...
- Nathan Snyder
I still go here more than Twitter and it's all because of the comments, pictures, no 140char limit, etc... I vote Not Dead.
- Jan Ole Peek
Plus I still don't see how anyone can have a valid conversation on Twitter with more than 1 or 2 people. Certainly not via the web interface.
- Jan Ole Peek
I don't think FF is dead. I also hope it won't die because it kicks ass :)
- alfred westerveld
I'm sorry, but I must laugh at the First comment by Jan Ole Peek, comments about the 140 Character Limit while abbreviating. (Subconcious?) Anyway, I hope it doesn't die also.
- Nathan Snyder
Heh, XC Fan, I'm a lazy typer, that's all. But I don't like to be confined to a certain number of characters. Aside from that, I like that pictures are displayed inline with FriendFeed whereas with Twitter you always have to visit some stupid site to see the image.
- Jan Ole Peek
Yeah, plus you can attach any file right to a post for others to see.
- Nathan Snyder
While a little crazy to read, where else could you have a discussion like this? I missed the main portion but it highlights the importance of real-time to capture discussions AND a solution to store/manage it. With FF I can join in later; twitter gone, FB out the bottom. Robert you thrive in the full blast from the fire hose, most mainstream users consider that pure torture. Your neighbors could grasp friendfeed, they'll never get twitter (in it's current form). I still love friendfeed http://ff.im/a57K2.
- Chris Myles
The irony of 392 comments (so far) on a thread about the service dying is causing my head to implode.
- Stephen Mack
you didn't expect such a popular and beloved service to die silently, did you?
- Onur Cengiz
++Stephen
- David Cook
from email
Heya Robert if you're reading this check this out: http://www.victusspiritus.com/2009...
- Mark Essel
Advertising for the uber geek ;)
- Mark Essel
TWiF 39: 99% As Good As The Screen Savers - http://www.podtrac.com/pts...
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