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Marshall Kirkpatrick
if unclear: RSSCloud will help readers get your blog posts right away, just like RSS lets them get your posts at all.
GReader, if and when it supports RSSCloud, will deliver blog posts to subscribers immediately after they are published if they are published through RSSCloud. - Marshall Kirkpatrick
does that make sense? right now you subscribe to a blog's feed in GReader and GReader checks the RSS feed like once every 30 mins. Depending on the feed, sometimes it only checks once a week if you're the only person subbed to it. With RSSCloud, GReader could act like an Instant Messaging client for you and be told, thus telling you, the moment a new post is available. - Marshall Kirkpatrick
Right -- Google Reader would be instant, like Twitter and FriendFeed are. - Dave Winer
+1 Andy C agree its getting confusing - Kim Landwehr
Ultimately they'll have to decide whether they want to give features to their users. I supported Atom in River2 in less than a day. It won't take them much longer to support rssCloud. - Dave Winer
makes me think that Google owning both the dominant feed publishing service and the dominant feed reading service probably isn't very good for the feed ecosystem. - Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall, this gives them the opportunity to prove that it's not a problem. - Dave Winer
Winer makes a good point. Google should support rssCloud so the market decides - Steve Gillmor
The market will decide regardless. Google will be making a mistake by not supporting it. - Jesse Stay
exactly Jesse - Steve Gillmor
@Steve - seriously - when has Google done anything serious beyond its obsession with search based ad placement? - Dennis Howlett
supporting Pubsubhubbub was a good start, rssCloud a good next step - Steve Gillmor
@dahowlett Google does a lot of serious stuff: gmail, google apps for domains (incl enterprise search appliances), deeply serious stuff around power usages/management for their own datacenters (and even more serious BigTable & the other underlying technologies within those datacenters), Google Earth & Maps (incl the massive effort to get Streetview data), Google Books & the scanning project & agreement with publishers) etc. Sure, some (many) of these don't get a lot of coverage or currently generate revenues (though the data center stuff is pretty key to everything Google does) - Shannon Clark
Glad to see you pushing Dave - Congrats on getting Matt/Wordpress onboard. - PXLated
I don't understand: why RSSCloud over Pubsubhubbub? You can talk about "choice" and push Google to support RSSCloud, but if there's no real difference between the two, the market can't differentiate and there isn't going to be a real choice. Like right now, I'm asking why didn't Dave Winer and Automattic get on board with Pubsubhubbub? What's the material benefit for pushing RSSCloud instead? - Mark Trapp
Fine. It's the other way around. When they decided to implement realtime feeds, why did they invent something new? RSS already provided for it. Since 2001. So bring this argument to them. Thanks. - Dave Winer
BTW, to be clear, I don't have any issue with the Google guys who did Pubsubhubub, just with arguments like this that get their chronology backwards. - Dave Winer
You didn't really answer the question, Dave. Is there a material difference between Pubsubhubbub and RSSCloud such that RSSCloud is better? Why would I choose RSSCloud over Pubsubhubbub, or vice versa? All I know right now is that there's one standard that's supported by Google, and one that's supported by you and Automattic. Why shouldn't I go with Google's version? It reads like Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD - Mark Trapp
Mark, I stated a few reasons as well here: http://staynalive.com/article... - but frankly, Dave was first. Google's a bigCo. Dave's isn't tied to a bigCo. I think his is more appealing because of that. I'll support both though until I see wider adoption. - Jesse Stay
Guys, we plan to integrate RSS Cloud to Lazyfeed very soon. We've just announced it on our blog: http://blog.lazyfeed.com/2009... Hope people will like it :) - Ethan Gahng
Jesse: Dave's version might've been first, but the one that seems to have gotten wide adoption first was Google's. So when that happened, why fight it? I'm assuming there's a good reason why RSSCloud is better: being technically first doesn't seem like a good enough reason. I do see the part about 24 hour expiry: I'd have to think about that some more. Seems like something easily added to PubSubHubbub, though: and doesn't seem like enough to keep two competing specs alive. - Mark Trapp
rssCloud is a done deal. Mark, you should take your own advice and stop fighting. - Dave Winer
What happened to the Hide command in FriendFeed? This thread is so over, totally needs to be hidden. - Dave Winer
All I'm asking is for some information on why there are two seemingly competing specs and which spec one should one adopt, Dave. If you can't deign yourself to provide that information, by all means ignore or block me: perhaps someone besides you who gets the difference between the two can fill in the rest of us mere mortals on what the concrete differences between the two specs are. - Mark Trapp
Andy, I agree with him - this is a dumb argument. - Jesse Stay
It's not a dumb argument, but one that should be rendered moot by Google supporting rssCloud - Steve Gillmor
Dave, it's right next to Comment, Like, and Share... Hide is the one on the right... no your other right - Chris Heath
Does this mean I won't need Sudar's Post to FriendFeed plugin for WordPress? - Skyler Call
Anyone remembers VHS vs. Betamax? Nowadays willy whacking is sooo last century, isn't it? - Sebastian
wasn't vhx vs betamax settled by the adult film industry? - Chris Heath
Prolly many adult entertainment services have implemented PuSH spreading near real time smut moments before supporting rssCloud. Why miss out on any opportunity? - Sebastian
Regarding Jesse's argument that "Dave was first" is sufficient justification for preferring RSSCloud, it was dead for more than five years and implemented by no one. When he chose to take it out of mothballs, PSHB was implemented by Google and others. His choice to revive RSSCloud has splintered pub-sub support into two efforts and a lot of programmers will now be asked to support both. I'm not clear on the benefit either. - Rogers Cadenhead
Eventually it boils down to wether you reader app implemented enough real-time "clients". An easy option for this is to use Superfeedr, since we have implemented MANY of them... and we push forward the content to your reader. - Julien