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Loic Le Meur

Friendfeed Is Going To Kill Google Reader, Not Twitter - http://www.loiclemeur.com/english...

May 26, 2008 from Loic Le Meur Blog - Comment - Like - Share

Jeroen De Miranda, hiroshimo, Dimitar Denev and 27 other people liked this

Interesting. Very interesting. - Warner Crocker

33 more comments

Very True Loic you made it very clear how easy it is to follow the comments!! - Paul

FF only works as a feed reader if you like "river of news". If you don't, then it isn't good enough. - Ian Betteridge from twhirl

I will not follow you on that one. A think both have very different missions. GReader really is a tools while FF is also a communication device - Eric Sausse from twhirl

it has already replaced it for, right now I'm going through some 4 days old posts in gReader, I tend to stop by there less and less - Dobromir Hadzhiev from twhirl

With out google reader or twitter, FF would not be what it is today. Remember it's a big circle jerk. I do not see FF killing google reader nor twitter any time soon. - Mike Fruchter

when will we be able to like comments? :) - Tim Hoeck

FF certainly doesn't have enough people talking about every single topic I subscribe to. I'm glad you guys aren't preachers at a church, the end of the world would have supposedly been last week. - Shawn Farner

For me, Google Reader is an even more essential part than Twitter of my FriendFeed experience. So ... as said before... FriendFeed will _not_ kill Google Reader or Twitter, etc. What is happening, however, is that often, the items in Google Reader are arriving after I've already read them via FriendFeed. - Louis Gray

These things always go on through June. Then we have the killing. Or something like that. - Michael Markman

Eric Sausse, you have a good point, you cannot add just a feed in Friendfeed, they first need to be registered there and added their feed. But FF could add that very easily, adding feeds from people who are not in FF. Then it would put pressure on them to finally jump into the bandwagon - Loic Le Meur

I agree with Louis & others - GR feeds FF for me. - R. Ferguson

You can "just add" a feed in FF -- check out the imaginary friends feature - Brian Sullivan

FF lets you publish your *filtered* google reader shared items, together with other stuff, to make an impression of you and your interests. That's how I see FF: almost a snapshot of a personality. For me GReader is a tool that you can use to filter items into your FF. - IanBlackburnold

Brian Sullivan, thanks I was wondering the imaginary friend thing! now I know. Here we go, no need for Google Reader anymore... - Loic Le Meur

yeah, I wont use FF for all of my feeds, I am subscribe to way too many and have already my routine with it. FF is more of a discovery + conversation experience for me - Gilbert Corrales from twhirl

Ian, right: I don't want people to form an impression of me based on my subscriptions to D:Listed, TMZ, The Superficial, and Perez Hilton, unless they are really really important, then I'll share the story. And now I've tipped my hand. But anyway: there's a community for feed discovery already: Tuluu. GReader + FF is about what's interesting from the feeds. - Mark Trapp

I'm with the GReader feeding FF crowd on this one. I use GReader to get the news I want and FF to share it and create conversation. FF is a great discovery tool but I still read a ton of stuff in my feeds before it appears on FF. The UI is set up better for conversation rather than just information digesting IMO. - Devlin Dunsmore

@devlin I agree... i'm finding it very hard to read pages and pages of link/comments on FF. - Gaurav Sikka

I hope FriendFeed doesn't kill Google Reader. I find them both vital but I couldn't substitute one for the other. - Kevin Fox

Again, this isn't going to happen. Services don't always have to exist just to kill other services. Especially ones that do different things - MG Siegler

its funny season on t'internets - Jamie

FriendFeed adds much value for me, but the only thing it's killing is time and maybe Scoble's marriage. I wish Loic would work on something more productive like getting Apple to make Seesmic videos work on the iPhone!:-) - Robert Seidman

We like having a choice for everything we do, but on the other hand, we expect (and sometimes hope) one choice to kill another. No wonder the world can't live in peace all together ;) - Turker Keskinpala

I never liked Google Reader's UI, but I feel right at home with FriendFeed. - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

So true, but time flies too fast when im on friendfeed, i cant stop reading and sending messages! Great conversations though! - Scott Purdie

going to have to disagree ... couldn't possibly get through all my feeds via FF - just too many for the FF interface - timepilot

Google Reader is a feed reader, FriendFeed is a feed generator. Sorry, they serve completely different purposes (at least to me). No killing here. - dgw

friendfeed doesn't allow me to categorize sources, nor can I tag or flag specific feed items in a way that makes it easy for me to refer back to later. for al the hype about friend feed being where the "conversation", it seems like a really poor utility for that. I see that on this blog post alone, the "conversation" is distributed across friendfeed through google shared reader posts, twitter references, disquss comments. The techcrunch "Twitter" post is even a better example. fractured conversation. - bernie

agreed FF no replacement for reader - ben rogers from twhirl

When will folks realize FF is something NEW? IT isnt goign to kill much of the other stuff. - Soulhuntre from twhirl

would love keyboard shortcuts for FF too - Loic Le Meur

FF is useful as a human filter on the old echo chamber of tech but could never replace a feed reader. gReader shared items into FF is part of the signal for me, but, not a replacement. Much like RSSMeme and it's FF filter. And then there's the twisty bit where I read FF via a feed readier in the first place ... - Ashton

I'm still new to FF, but I like the search function that Google provides to even the oldest of the feeds. Not sure I would want the number of feeds I subscribe to coming through to FF. I like the combination of posts and conversation along with a few updates from other services like flickr or Digg. I think the 'conversation' would be seriously degraded with the addition of a number of RSS feeds. I would need to see how well FF handles growth before moving from Google Reader. - Brenda Young

I think you were right. #humdaybumpday - Ahmet Yükseltürk

Susan Beebe

I think the Google Chrome browser logo is a rip off copy of the 1970's "Simon" electronic game. What do you think?

March 23, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

arieana, urdumania1, Bella Khan and 79 other people liked this

its pretty close. - Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど

27 more comments

You should send this totallylookslike.com - Mike Nayyar

guitar hero is a heavy rip off of simon says too, pretty inspirational game - Yunus Tunak

Mike - I might just do that! - Susan Beebe

The device name is not "Simon Says"...just Simon. "Simon Says" was on of the modes of play on Simon. </ComicBookGuy> - Josh Haley

Yep. - Eric - Too Hot

That's why it looked familiar - M F

@Josh Haley - Thanks! I just corrected it... much appreciated - Susan Beebe

i remember that game. god, how i hated it. - Nathan Rein

in the other news ... http://www.youtube.com/watch... ;) - A. T.

and little more chrome 80s styled http://www.youtube.com/watch... :) - A. T.

I bet kids today have never seen the "Simon" electronic toy... makes me feel old! - Susan Beebe

I saw my name mentioned a few times, things ok over here? - Simon Wicks

Pft, it's obviously a pokeball - Daniel Bruce

I loved that game! - JA Castillo

hahaha! - Susan Beebe

omg, totally!! - Sarah Perez

I knew it reminded me of something! - Mary DeSive

since you put it that way, yeah ;) - Doug Schumacher

Lots of folks saying the Google Chrome logo "makes them want to play Simon" - LOL - Susan Beebe

to me it looks like how a non-computer-using artist type would design a trackball -- either that or they are trying to get a HAL vibe without creeping everyone out - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Uh-oh, Google, you've been caught with your hand in the electronics bin! - MiniMage

I got my son a travel version of Simon, so there's at least one kid who's seen it. (He needs hand-eye coordination practice.) This does seem very, very similar. - Kisha from BuddyFeed

I remember it ! :-) - Roberto from fftogo

I get the Simon apps for my phones. WinMo and iPhone. - MiniMage

Not sure why I didn't mention that I still have my old Simon. - MiniMage

exactly! awesome idea :) congrats! - Alihan ÇETİN

:) @Doğuş lol This is more than same :D - Alihan ÇETİN

its more than the ordinary. new to friendfeed. This is my link jolamps.blogspot.com - KINGSLEY OSEVWE

Mark Krynsky

FriendFeed User Locations - Google Shared Map - http://maps.google.com/maps...

November 19, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

michelle, urdumania1, Julian and 95 other people liked this

Roll call...this can be great if we all participate. Add yourself to this shared map. I created a placemark on the 2 major intersections near where I live. - Mark Krynsky

102 more comments

or just list location...I'll start...Chatsworth, CA - Mark Krynsky

I would but I won't - Outsanity

near Chicago - Tinfoil 2.0

How do I add myself? - Mo Kargas

Grayson, GA - Rahsheen

Puyallup, WA - Bren

Mo, I'm a newb to the shared maps stuff, but I turned on collaboration and allowed anyone to edit the map. There should be an edit button and then you can add a placemark. - Mark Krynsky

erm...Adelaide, SA, Australia - Mo Kargas

Sydney, Australia. - Andrew Trinh

Yeah, I don't see how to add anything to the map - Rahsheen

But you already have Rahsheen. - Andrew Trinh

Well it's working because I see others are adding themselves...Make sure you are logged into your Google account. - Mark Krynsky

After most have put their placemarks on, don't let anyone edit it because there's always someone out there waiting to fuck shit up. - Andrew Trinh

This guide may help http://local.google.com/support... - Mark Krynsky

@Andrew...good point. I just changed it from public to unlisted which only makes the map available to those with the URL. - Mark Krynsky

Even so, last time we had the Confessions account details on FF it was tinkered with. - Andrew Trinh

I added mine, but in the process of learning I think I nudged the Sydney, Australia points off a little. Sorry. - Rob H.

Ok, think I did it! - Bec Rowe @d0tski

Robert bought me a new house in the northern suburbs. - Andrew Trinh

@Bec...nice. You are the first brave female on here. - Mark Krynsky

Cool idea, Mark! I was thinking something like this would be fun the other day. Duly added myself - or at least the nearest big intersection. ;) - Jandy

Mousing over the usernames shows your Google profile info...cool. - Mark Krynsky

I marked a bus stop near my house. But not TOO near. :) - Nine Ferdinand

If you haven't yet...go add FriendFeed to your Google Profile...it will then auto-discover and allow you to add a ton of other profiles you have. - Mark Krynsky

Thanks for the profile tip - I hadn't updated it since I moved here! - Jandy

Added myself. Verona, Italy - Stefano

Added. Sydney, Australia - Jay

Added. Doha, Qatar. - Mohamed J

Thanks guys. This is coming along nicely. It's great to have as a resource to see where everyone is from. Hopefully this can become a standard feature on FF one day. - Mark Krynsky

Canterbury, Melbourne, Victoria added - Duncan Riley

Athens, Greece added, too :) - George Tziralis

Added. - Atul Arora

Ace idea, I've added mine in Kent, England. - Kol Tregaskes

Asia's letting the side down - Toby Graham

added, North London, UK - Rory

Current count: 13 US, 11 Europe, 3 Australia, 1 Middle East. Happy to see many others add themselves overnight. Hoping more will continue this. - Mark Krynsky

Done ! Waterloo Belgium - Jacopo Gio

I've read the instruction and still don't see the button thing to add myself. I'm feeling pretty stupid right now. -

@Jill, make sure you are logged into your Google account and then click on the edit button above the list of names already on the map. You will then see the pushpin in the upper left hand side of the map. - Mark Krynsky

Thanks Mark! I see it all now. -

Great idea! - Alan Le

@Neal yea, we really need a FriendFeed meetup. I might be up there for Web 2.0 in March...or we can have one at SXSW if a large number of us are going. Let's plan and get the Upcoming page going. - Mark Krynsky

Am I the only FriendFeeder in VA? - Aram Zucker-Scharff

Maybe we can talk Paul & Bret into letting us invade the FF offices for a meetup in conjunction with Web 2.0? That would be sooooo cool! - Mark Krynsky

I'm there :) - Alejandro

Yay Alejandro...first South American..and my old stomping grounds in Argentina no less :) - Mark Krynsky

Added! - Shey

Neat. Added. - Rodfather

Added. - michael sean wright

Alright Shey! We finally have a Canadian...let's see if your fellow compatriot Mark Wilson joins the fray. - Mark Krynsky

@NiceFishFilms, your pushpin seems a bit off up there in Russia. Dana Point is thousands of miles from there :) - Mark Krynsky

Oh, I see now...you added 2. You're a pushpin litterbug :) - Mark Krynsky

Another snowflake pushpin *waves to Shey* - Micah

whoo hoo! Canadian snowflakes FTW! - Shey

Added.Hi from Russia.:) - Igor Poltavskiy

How do I add myself again? How do I add my ff to my gmail account? - Amani

Cairo, Egypt - Hayk

reykjavik, iceland - siggimus

Cologne, Germany - Holger Eilhard

Carcavelos, Portugal - Ricardo Vidal

Added New Jersey but boy, it took a while to get the Pin logo on the screen, not so obvious - Sally Church

London EC1 UK - Joe Dawson

Added - Bwana ☠

Pinned! sheesh this just cost me 1/2 hour of time as I scrolled thru all the folks :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Except for Bret, there are no FriendFeeders on the penninsula between San Jose and San Francisco. So much for Silicon Valley early adopters. - Ryan Kuder

Added! I'm the first in The Netherlands :-) - TobiasVerhoog.com

Added. First in Japan! - rawwell

I think I added me. HOpe it worked - Amani

This is truly awesome! - Mathew™ aka Youngblood

Cluelessness alert! I'm not seeing how to add my pushpin! - Hutch Carpenter

For some reason whenever i use google maps in creation-mode, it defaults to some other maps I've used, not the one I'm trying to access - ah, figured it out. Had to de-activate some other collaborative maps - anna sauce

Added. What a great way to see who's on FF in Austin, TX! - Carter ♥ JS

Added myself in Shenzhen,China. - Steve Chou

courtenay, canada - http://friendfeed.com/ernieya... - ernie yacub

added me. Coimbatore, South India - vijay

Added Bangalore, India. - Mahesh CR

Added - Glenn Slaven

Added - Youngmin Kim

I'm added now, too. - Kamilah Reed (K. Gill)

Nice! I'm the only active FriendFeeder in Montreal: Quebec represents FF! I could be a French Canadian FF ambassador or something. =) - Zu from AOD

Added - ThenWang

Added - James Myatt

Added. I am now an icon :^) - Nick B.

Added =) - ChaCha Fance

Added. - Bonnie Foster

Added - Michael Fidler

Added. Antananarivo, Madagascar - Thierry R. Andriamirado

Finally me too :) Greetings from Ankara Turkey :) - Burçak Çubukçu

Bump for the good times. - Mark Krynsky

Bringing it in to 2010! - Curtis (a) Jackson

Beaverton, OR - Scoble, Alex Scoble

Waves to Alex... - Mark Krynsky

Added - Doral, FL. - Curtis (a) Jackson

Hi Mark! - Scoble, Alex Scoble

Added! - Jennifer Dittrich

Added :) - jtf

Added EastSide of St Paul (use the edit button) - WarLord

Egads. I had not updated my location since my days in East Oakland... Yipes! - Lisa | #TeamMonique

Huh...had to readd. Oh, well. :) - Curtis (a) Jackson

Yeah, there's a few people who've moved since they added themselves here! I haven't. Same old, same old. - Jandy

Wow you guys revived this old school post...heh. - Mark Krynsky

Added. - Chelle Chelle Ro Ro

added (i cant get my fish and fish hook to stay pinned, :( ) Va Beach, Va - chaz2b

Steve Gillmor to Steve's feed, RealTime Network

Gillmor Gang, Live Recording Session at 1pm PT. Participate at http://www.building43.com/realtim...

October 29, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

testbeta, Mike Doeff, Naor Mark and 7 other people liked this

iPads gain in enterprise http://video.ft.com/v... - clive boulton

119 more comments

how's it looking? - Kevin Marks

It is Friday again? I'm waiting for the call. Have a new Logitech webcam, too. - Robert Scoble

starts now. - Robert Scoble

woo-hoo - Ankush Narula

hello hello - Xenophrenia

hi Xeno - Kevin Marks

Hi. - Robert Scoble

paypal was down earlier as well - Ankush Narula

Missed you on Tummelvision Kevin - it was a good show - Heather and Dave stayed after and chatted for about 20 mins or so - Xenophrenia

You started a trend ;-) - Xenophrenia

I missed it too - I'll have to listen to the podcast - Kevin Marks

http://mashable.com/2010... - Ankush Narula

I agree with Danny - it's annoying that it defaults to checking - Ankush Narula

Last Pass has an auto fill feature - Xenophrenia

Totally frictionless payment a la iTunes is the goal - Stephen Pickering

Verified by Visa is really annoying. Looks like a phishing attack - Kevin Marks

totally frictionless could be hazardous if hacked .... - Xenophrenia

yay - Xenophrenia

marijuana isn't evil - Xenophrenia

It helps creativity - Stephen Pickering

It sure makes this show funnier than usual - Ankush Narula

takes the money away of the cartels - stop incarcerating more people than the rest of the world - stuff like that ;-) .. - Xenophrenia

Office just keeps growing and growing - Stephen Pickering

yeah - and makes people happy - helps people who are sick ... ;-) - Xenophrenia

Office isn't exactly a riveting conversational topic ;-) ... people use it everyday - don't necessarily talk about it - Xenophrenia

Microsoft is obsessed with introducing new brands... it's killing them - Ankush Narula

If iPad had a real browser and flash then it would kill netbooks - Stephen Pickering

I agree Stephen - Xenophrenia

how is the iPad browser not real? - Kevin Marks

there probably would still be some - but people really like the Ipad - Xenophrenia

its mobile browser, can't edit Google Docs for instance, so many services don't work right in the mobile browser Google Translate etc - Stephen Pickering

so, if Google supported the iPad browser better... - Kevin Marks

Microsoft Tension - .NET vs Ozzie - clive boulton

But why a mobile browser on a screen that large - Stephen Pickering

Adobe shows Flash to HTML5 (+ SVG) converter: http://bit.ly/dBfHkG - Kevin Marks

“HTML is the only true cross platform solution for everything” - Bob Muglia, Microsoft Tools President http://zd.net/bCw3Tu - Kevin Marks

How's that going for Microsoft? - Ankush Narula

I can't upload files in Safari on iOS - as far as I'm concerned that's not an open platform implementation - Ankush Narula

what files do you want to upload? Photos? - Kevin Marks

yeah... and then some - Ankush Narula

Or download - Stephen Pickering

so that many Ipads sold (to people not used to how Apple works) ... is there a new one announced in January ;-) ? - Xenophrenia

It's what people want to "do" - PookyMedia

Microsoft's brand diminishing? http://bit.ly/dCWquA - John Taschek

Apple/MS committed to H.264, Google to WebM - Ankush Narula

Diversifying into each others fields - innovative or limiting? - PookyMedia

Google uses h264 and WebM - Kevin Marks

standardizing - Xenophrenia

better for 'us' if they all play nicely - Xenophrenia

Skype to FB too - PookyMedia

Does anyone worry the strategy is to close down the Mac like iOS is? - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: why worry? I'm not invested in Mac. That much. - Robert Scoble

if Apple's Facetime would document and work with existing protocols, then Apple would get for free the already in place windows video chat libraries and clients - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Well in my vision the Mac is the mother ship and iOs is like a shuttle. - Stephen Pickering

exactly bear. If they documented it, every video chat vendor would build it right away. - Kevin Marks

brilliant move by starbucks - PookyMedia

Foursquare has achieve escape velocity I guess - Stephen Pickering

RadioShack and Ben&Jerry's run offers on foursquare too. - Alex de Soto

what was the one you used on the way to TWiT cottage Robert? - Xenophrenia

that was fun to watch ;-) - Xenophrenia

foursquare needs to make an add-on for google maps - that way they can pop up a pin layer of everywhere they have coupons - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

GPS based entertainment doesn't get more local than that - PookyMedia

So we all become perpetual Amway salesmen? - Ankush Narula

then we'd question if it's actual interest or just getting paid to point .. - Xenophrenia

Xeno: I used Glympse to do that. - Robert Scoble

it's a trust issue for those you recommend to - Xenophrenia

virtual pyramid schemes - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

right, ankus, xeno - that is the problem with affiliate schemes. Needs to be clear - Kevin Marks

what about the Library of Congress documenting your foursq activity? - PookyMedia

don't they have laws because bloggers were doing this sort of thing? - Xenophrenia

and not disclosing? - Xenophrenia

hahahahha - PookyMedia

yes, was article about this Xeno: http://blogs.forbes.com/jeffber... - Kevin Marks

should they be more aware? - PookyMedia

I'm the mayor of a restroom in Grand Central Station... take that homeless guy who lives there - Ankush Narula

I check-in so I have a record of places I've been for myself... - Kevin Marks

would there be laws against getting paid to do this sort of thing? That you would have to disclose your getting paid to recommend these webpages? - Xenophrenia

hehehe - Xenophrenia

kev: I like it for that also - Ankush Narula

What do you guys think of proliferation of QRCodes? - Alex de Soto

but the correct info could be gotten out by the main player - time warner - PookyMedia

being a hermit - I have very little need for Foursquare ;-) - Xenophrenia

disclosing should be part of the referral, sure. - Kevin Marks

I hate the drive-by check ins. People checking into places that they have not been, just passed by. - Dave Hoffman / N3PRO

Checking in for the enterprise can be cool in large corporations. Good to know when boss is in the house. - Alex de Soto

If I post an Amazon link with my referrer code in, Amazon should make that clear. - Kevin Marks

Twitter is operating on the complex tectonic surface crust of the the social-neural network sphere. - Arnie Klaus

Boss checking in: http://dilbert.com/strips... - Kevin Marks

Kevin: Funny! - Alex de Soto

The Primus defense - Ankush Narula

that would make sense - Xenophrenia

Did he say a secret hashtag? - Ankush Narula

epic rant - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Seems like Foursquare should take the place of these Guitar Center and Bed Bath & Beyond Coupons I get every few weeks in the mail - Stephen Pickering

I hope we helped. - Arnie Klaus

http://xkcd.com/806/ just say 'shibboleet' - Kevin Marks

their doing the new cool thing - Xenophrenia

that's all - Xenophrenia

they're - Xenophrenia

why do I do that? - Xenophrenia

Kinect kicks ass - Ankush Narula

Should I invest in ERTS? Will Xbox continue to grow and is ERTS the biggest game maker? - Stephen Pickering

If Silverlight's dead so is WIndows Phone 7 - Ankush Narula

it will use foursquare! - PookyMedia

Ankush: heh. Windows Phone 7 uses HTML 5, too, right? - Robert Scoble

Not for native though... I think that's webOS - Ankush Narula

Windows Phone 7 has some retro browser on it - Kevin Marks

Kevin: yet another reason I won't accept a free one. - Robert Scoble

Yeah - Internet Explorer 360 - Ankush Narula

the answer to Danny's rant is tummeling - thats what customer service needs. - Kevin Marks

Yeah because the current king of Oracle has a god complex - Ankush Narula

webkit is all that matters - John Taschek

yes Kevin - but these corporations need to take 'humans' seriously first .. - Xenophrenia

of course - I think the twitter outreach is a step in that direction - Kevin Marks

Virtual goods too - PookyMedia

John: don't tell the Mozilla guys that - Ankush Narula

Have yet to use Facebook places. Don't seem compelling to me. - Dave Hoffman / N3PRO

I survived another week! :-) - Robert Scoble

tata - Xenophrenia

ciao - happy halloween folks - Ankush Narula

Louis Gray

“Size Comparison: Twins vs. Electronic Gadgets” - http://friendfeed.com/e...

July 19, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Andrea Alexia, arieana, Mike David and 90 other people liked this

"Yes, it's me, abusing my baby pictures quotient on FriendFeed again. But in case you wanted to get a visual on Sarah's size, here's one item for comparison - the iPod Touch. Also included, Matthew, sleeping next to the iPod Touch, TiVo remote and Blackberry. It's better than using a ruler!" - Louis Gray

36 more comments

LOL LOUIS!!!! - Mona Nomura

This will replace the pencil markings on the wall as a measurement of growth. - Hutch Carpenter

Way too cute! - michael sean wright

will there be an unboxing at some point - Allen Stern

The TiVo remote has hardly changed at all in 10 years. - Robert Seidman

WOW, they are SMALL! cool pics!! I love the one with the baby on the couch with 3 devices - Susan Beebe

Okay that's just really damn cute :) - justine

one day these kids are going to say, 'dad used us as props for his gadgets!'...and then there will be blood! lol - .LAG liked that

@.LAG, then I'll remind them how when we parked in what I thought was acceptable shade outside Babies R Us today, they both went nuts, and I had to extract them from their car seats and walk into the store (using the exit), with the pair held tight to my chest, to commiserate with their mother. I'm sure I was quite the sight. "Hey! Look at that guy! He's in over his head!" (fingers pointing) - Louis Gray

Hey! Someone should say you - this is really unhealthy!! : ( - Erhan Erdoğan

@Louis - You definitely look in over your head. However, I was that way with only one. Now my children are 21 and 18 and I still remain in over my head. ; ) - Rex Hammock

This made Maryam crack up and say "that's cute!" - Robert Scoble

@Rex, I look in over my head? Definitely? Where's the proof on that? I disagree. :-) - Louis Gray

I don't believe you all - Robert, Louis, Maryam, all likes, comments - i urgently need a judge for this photos! : ) Your tech love is get out of control!! - Erhan Erdoğan

now let's see the Touch duke it out with the Blackberry - Paulo Elias from twhirl

I'm so going to do this one day when I have one. haha - Daynah

@Erhan and Brian, 1) They're not sleeping with the gadgets in their cribs (yet) and 2) I am not worried about that nonsense. I might as well unplug the microwave and TV while I'm at it, no? - Louis Gray

We always left a computer keyboard in our kids cribs as a toy -- they loved it. - Oldengrey (Jay)

The important thing to remember is that if Louis were forced to choose between his children and his gadgets,,,well, I'm sure the kids would find a good home. (JUST KIDDING!) - Ontario Emperor

lmao I'm so reporting you for this. Too hilarious - Corvida

Hey guys you have to see this related post... Scoble is competing with Louis' over coolest kid toys! http://friendfeed.com/e... - Susan Beebe

OMG! that's priceless! I <3 it! Put the device on vibrate and see what happens! I bet it would sooth any crankiness. Can you say iTunes visualizer? Better than Baby Einstein. Makes us AND them drool into relaxation. My son has gumdrop iMac in his bedroom specifically for that reason (glorified nightlight). Hey! We have to do what we have to do, right? Why not have some fun with it? Hellz ya! - Melissa Davis from twhirl

You know Louis, most parents use a wall and a pencil to show height and growth, you choose electronic equipment, what comes next? comparisons to the wii and ps3? then a macbook, then macbook pro, then dell blade server, where will it end?!!?!? - Allen Stern

Oh what beautiful little souls! I'm sure they are very precious to you :-). - Heather Colman

umm... it's not too heavy on him?! - Orli Yakuel

those photos are really embarassingly sad. Please leave the kids alone. - Claudio Cicali

A coochii coo! They are too cute! Twins are born small but they'll catch up in no time! Congrats! - Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart

LOL.. awesome pics - Aviv

apparently Amazon S3 is down - Shey

Total weirdness - the cuteness overload causes the pics to show for me even when S3 is down! It might be just my cache, ofcourse, but I like the first theory better :) - Yuvi

I'll take the electronics when the kids are all grown up. It won't matter to me that the stuff is decades old. - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

oh this is ROFL! - susan mernit

Ok, from one tech geek to another, that has to be the most cute thing I've ever seen. =) - David Cook

It's February 21, 2009. I'm in the middle of a music search on FriendFeed and found these pictures from July 19, 2008. How time flies... - Ontario Emperor

Wow, where'd you dredge this up, Haggis? - Kevin L

Just showed this to Matthew, and he says, "That's Braden!" - Louis Gray

beautiful - Rida Sayf

Steve Gillmor to Steve's feed, RealTime Network

Gillmor Gang, Live Recording Session at 11:00AM PT. Participate at http://www.building43.com/realtim...

May 28, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

Sean Kelly, Marcus Schroefel, Wayne Sutton and 7 other people liked this

I'm standing by waiting for the usual call. - Robert Scoble

134 more comments

Cool! - Stephen Pickering

Hey Scoble, it's not that Paul. - Cliff Gerrish

Oh, crap. It's Paul Carr then? - Robert Scoble

Which Paul will it be.... - Chris Aldrich

It's a mystery Paul, you'll need to tune in to see. - Cliff Gerrish

McCartney? :-)))) - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: now THAT would be a show! - Robert Scoble

Heheheheh - Stephen Pickering

We will be starting shortly. - Robert Scoble

http://twitter.com/brianstorms is our special guest. Brian Dear. - Robert Scoble

Gillmor Gang recording session live with Brian Dear, Paul Carr, Kevin Marks & Scoble- http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish

Ahhh, cool, thanks for the link - Stephen Pickering

The Plato birthday party will be at the Computer History Museum: http://www.computerhistory.org/events... - Cliff Gerrish

They did a great job - Stephen Pickering

hmmm. Friendfeed isn't letting me post. trying from a different place. - Karoli

Karoli: that worked. - Robert Scoble

Karoli, I'm seeing your post saying you aren't able to post. - Cliff Gerrish

This is a classic battle of who has the most leverage. Happens in every industry - Stephen Pickering

It's sort of like when Apple got rid of the disk drive. - Cliff Gerrish

Bah. Buy the 3G. The iPad's all about convenience. - Ken Sheppardson

yes, posting from the NGL beta window works. - Karoli

Re: iPad - interesting post by Fred Wilson changing his opinion about the iPad: http://www.avc.com/a_vc... - Mike Doeff

the Evo has lasted me for 2 days without plugging in - David Robit Chen

It's really a format question... why isn't there more cross interaction between my three screens: television, computer, and phone/mobile device? - Chris Aldrich

We're going to buy the 3G. It makes sense to have one that goes on the road. - Karoli

I'm really annoyed that I pay AT&T $120/mo and not tethering - Stephen Pickering

Chris, the smaller screens need to control the bigger screens. - Cliff Gerrish

And I can't hear my phone calls - Stephen Pickering

Task killer? Now that just reminds me horribly of my days prior to iPhone, aka when I suffered with Windows Mobile. - Nick Wade

I think it's the other way around, the big screens need to allow the smaller screens in for interaction. - Chris Aldrich

3G is the fill in network. Filling in the cracks between wifi signals. - Cliff Gerrish

Karoli: Do it. I messed with a tethered WiFi for a bit, then got a 3G... 3G rulez. Not having to worry about another device is worth it. - Ken Sheppardson

I got the 3G iPad last week. I haven't activated it yet but I like knowing it's there. - Mike Doeff

Yeah, but why won't AT&T let me get the 3G off my iPhone for my iPad? - Stephen Pickering

Berkeley/Oakland, no iPad sighting for me yet - Da

I can't see paying an extra $30 a month for signal if you already have an iPhone. Spend the 20 seconds it takes to run Spirit on the iPhone, then install MyWi, and voila. Easy WiFi Tethering for your cheaper iPad. - Otto

But then Apple doesn't make as much Brian if they don't tether you to the iTunes store.... That's the real tethering issue. - Chris Aldrich

I think we'll see iPad sync via wifi fairly soon. That's what the Lala.com acquisition was about. - Cliff Gerrish

And now Google has a UI Expert! - Stephen Pickering

Yep. Just like my Palm Pre. Apple could do it if they wanted to. It's not unique to Android. - Ken Sheppardson

Seems like Google eats UI experts alive. - Cliff Gerrish

And open source advocates, and startups... - Ken Sheppardson

Brian Dear has Androids new slogan: 'A phone that a sysadmin would love...' - Cliff Gerrish

Kind of like the Hollywood mantra... Porn directors drive old cheap Corollas so they can save money for liquor and drugs. - Chris Aldrich

Brian makes a good point. The iTunes synch makes the whole iPad experience too complex for novice users. - Mike Doeff

Buying a computer at Target or Walmart is a different experience - Da

The problem with that argument is that there aren't 11 fake versions of me on Facebook. - Chris Aldrich

Yes, but there may be more than one Chris Aldrich - Stephen Pickering

If you want to be found, yes, you make things public. That shouldn't be his call. - Ken Sheppardson

Who's call should it be? - Cliff Gerrish

there are over 10k versions of me on Facebook :) - until you start narrowing in on my nicknames - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

What about the issue Leo has about that Facebook is making a "grab" to control the web? - Stephen Pickering

Didn't we have this same convo last week? And the week before? And the week before that? - Ken Sheppardson

Facebook has 500 million co-conspirators in its 'grab' for the web - Cliff Gerrish

I've argued that you should have two separate pages, one public facing the other totally private - Stephen Pickering

I'm having trouble understanding how Facebook opening up more is a grab for the web. The more public it is, the easier to scrape & repurpose. - Ian McGee

sounds like Facebook is trying to make the same change that sites like Geocities tried - the move from hobby/personal to hobby/personal/business - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

But even my flower shop should be able to post up drunken photos and have privacy settings to prevent all of my Mormon customers from seeing them. - Chris Aldrich

I think Leo is talking about the "Like" implementation - Stephen Pickering

So what do we do when the bad starts to creep up? When the porn sites, smashers, hackers and unethical users begin to leverage this power and blame it on Facebook? - Jeff Madlock

calling us dumb isn't really great for getting us to listen. do you think we're not aware they sell data? - Karoli

Banking and Airlines operate in a very strict regulatory regime. Europe has started that regime. - Cliff Gerrish

Adding a like button is opt in. - Cliff Gerrish

I like the "like" button myself but I'm just re iterating Leo's argument. What happens when you like something? Do the users know their data is being collected and funneled through third parties when they "like" something? - Stephen Pickering

With Facebook and privacy, one can use the cigarette analogy: doing it is bad for you in the long term, but a smoke today feels pretty good. The giving away of privacy today may not have consequences until it kills us 50 years from now. - Chris Aldrich

Great analogy Chris, I heard someone else make that argument earlier this week. Can't remember who. - Stephen Pickering

Chris, depending how old you are -- that's not a problem. - Cliff Gerrish

The "like button" will be an incredible tool for cultural anthropologists at least... - Chris Aldrich

perpetual beta - Da

Jay Rosen said Zuck's WP Editorial was "a bunch of crap" - Stephen Pickering

I love the expectation of public roadmaps now. Can't think of anyone doing it 5-10 years ago, but it's incredibly useful. Little hard to mesh with constant iteration though. - Ian McGee

I'm starting to feel like a rat who gets a treat for clicking on ads... Who is it that's doing the research on us? - Chris Aldrich

Yes, but he build his network on privacy and then pulled the rug - Stephen Pickering

I don't know why anyone is surprised by this. Free stuff has a price. - Karoli

Tungle.me rocks - Ian McGee

Yes, Karoli, but TV and Radio don't share are data surreptiously - Stephen Pickering

just be selective with what you put on the internet - Da

Stephen, TV and Radio made assumptions, reached a small fraction of who they could reach. I like seeing ads that I might be interested in. - Karoli

Somebody needs to have a long talk with Robert about self-selection. People who don't want their calendars public don't sign up for public calendar services. The fact that those who do make their calendar's public doesn't speak to what "we" want. - Ken Sheppardson

Now I do agree that Flippy or whatever it is, is silly. No way would I do that. - Karoli

Oh sure, Karoli, I'm all in favor of the Google model - Stephen Pickering

Public signaling is playing with masks. It doesn't represent a true state of affairs. - Cliff Gerrish

Yeah, I heard you laughing Scoble! - Stephen Pickering

@stevegillmor can you skype me in now? calliflower won't let me rejoin - Kevin Marks

Kevin, stand by. - Cliff Gerrish

Anyone else lose audio? - thestaticfrost

re:Blippy - isn't it interesting that Orwell et al.'s visions are coming true, only it's in the guise of cute/whimsical Web 2.0 names and Facebook games about sheep... - Alex Schleber

NM, had to reload. - thestaticfrost

Yahoo is an online media company? - Da

Fixing culture in a company that big is a huge problem. - Chris Aldrich

They've got Flickr and Finance. Does anyone use anything else there? - Stephen Pickering

Delicious. - Cliff Gerrish

Yahoo news - Da

I consider Facebook the new AOL - Karoli

Way too many people are still using their email client... - Chris Aldrich

no facebook is not the new yahoo - Wayne Sutton

But far more people spend far more time on Facebook than Yahoo... - Ian McGee

Yahoo Buzz gets large volumes of traffic too... I'm not sure why though. - Chris Aldrich

People spend 7hours a month on Facebook, no other site is even close, the problem is they can't monetize it and that's why they haven't gone public and had to take DST's money - Stephen Pickering

Facebook doesn't have a mobile OS - Da

BTW, for me UStream is constantly re-caching when I have the browser tab in focus (my connection is plenty fast); works OK as just audio in the background. - Alex Schleber

Why doesn't Yahoo build a great social network? Did you see that POS they tried a few years back? Build one that's cool and works and does everything FB does - Stephen Pickering

Will Yahoo buy a location-based platform? - Wayne Sutton

yahoo answer to get homework answered is great - Da

Sooner or later the individual user will have the tools to control and maintain their own infrastructure on the web and will link out into the world instead of relying on FB and other social media sites. - Chris Aldrich

Facebook NewsFeed is getting meatier iwth all the new-media news groups I've been adding to my stream -- TechCrunch, VentureBeat, etc. plus a bunch of affiliation groups. I'm finding more stories there and on Twittertim.es lately.. - Ian McGee

Chris, totally agreed, everyday there are new tools for "average" users to build there own sites with advanced features. Scoble interviewed Buzzr which is a usability layer on top of Drupal - Stephen Pickering

I was just watching that Buzzr interview just before this started. It's definitely a good start... - Chris Aldrich

All this talk about user built apps makes me miss hypercard... - Cliff Gerrish

Yeah, that kind of thing I believe could disrupt a Facebook in the next 5-10 years, maybe less - Stephen Pickering

I mean Drupal just rocks, but its so hard, give the average person that kind of power easily, and I feel something new developing - Stephen Pickering

The central social index gives facebook an advantage over distributed systems. - Cliff Gerrish

HyperCard is locked in Steve Jobs's basement; thats the trouble with building on one company's code - Kevin Marks

I love the potential of projects like Webfinger to be one of the enabling strategies for all of this. - Chris Aldrich

Hypercard turned into javascript and then jquery... - Cliff Gerrish

The only reason Facebook is important is because we have a dearth of connectivity. When everyone has a fiber connection a totally new peer to peer type of revolution will happen, I believe, decentralized, with the intelligence at the edges of the network - Stephen Pickering

We will each be our own facebook page, connected to each other with the same or even better features - Stephen Pickering

there is an architectural imperative because of NAT against distributed clients; My hope is that IPv6 will change this again - Kevin Marks

I also think FB has removed a lot of the "force" behind someone's desire to build their own page. They're effectively already doing it with FB, so something new has to have real benefits. - Ian McGee

Ian, it will - Stephen Pickering

It has to do with easy usability layers on top of real power, just as OSX is a usability layer on top of Unix - Stephen Pickering

And when that finally appears. we'll all be glad so much of the social graph is open for us to leverage. - Ian McGee

Just as computing became decentralized, so will social networking - Stephen Pickering

Ian, Right! - Stephen Pickering

as time goes on, are non-tech people gonna be reluctant to develop iPhone apps because they have to submit it for approval from Apple? - Da

FYI: http://www.platohistory.org/confere... - Chris Aldrich

Da, Yes - Stephen Pickering

Great show. - Mike Doeff

Da, that's already going on. Many developers are taking a close look at Android to replace; just takes more Android units out there to make it clear. - Ian McGee

And most of all, THANK YOU Steve for always putting these together! - Chris Aldrich

thanks to all of you. good show. :) - Karoli

Thanks, Steve and Gang - Stephen Pickering

Good stuff. - Ian McGee

Nice show - thanks much everyone! - Rob La Gesse

Thanks Rob! - Stephen Pickering

Paul Buchheit

It's interesting that having my FriendFeed and Twitter set to public is completely unremarkable, but my using the same setting on Facebook seems like a big deal, e.g. http://blogs.wsj.com/digits...

May 5, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

polymath22, Dave Martin, Glenn Slaven and 85 other people liked this

The first sentence of that article should explain the difference to you. If it doesn't, then I think you need to lay off the Kool-Aid for a bit. It's clouding your mind. - Akiva

291 more comments

Were either Friendfeed, or Twitter, sold as a private place to interact with friends, to begin with? - Jimminy

Akiva, putting those two sentences next to each other does not mean that they are logically connected. I chose to make my settings more public. Why is that an issue? - Paul Buchheit

Doesn't your Facebook profile have things like address and phone number? - Gabe

Yeah, as I mentioned, I don't make phone and email public because I don't want sales calls or whatever. - Paul Buchheit

"We made the site so that all of our members are a part of smaller networks like schools, companies or regions, so you can only see the profiles of people who are in your networks and your friends. We did this to make sure you could share information with the people you care about. This is the same reason we have built extensive privacy settings — to give you even more control over who you share your information with." - Mark Zuckerberg 9/8/06 - http://blog.facebook.com/blog... - Carter ♥ JS

That's not the issue, Paul. The issue is that the privacy settings in Facebook can cause people to 'unwittingly expose' information about themselves. My FriendFeed and Twitter accounts are also public but I don't have my home address or phone number or anything linked to those accounts. You, of course, are far more educated about Internet privacy and whatnot than, say, Grandma Indiana... more... - Akiva

The point being that Facebook level-set their users to expect privacy as the DEFAULT. Twitter and Friendfeed never did that. - Carter ♥ JS

Akiva, I'm pretty sure the default for home address and phone number is not "public". I only adjusted my defaults to make them more public, not less. - Paul Buchheit

I think the 'big deal' portion has everything to do with original intent and marketing - Twitter and FF haven't been marketed as private. Facebook very explicitly started that way. In migrating away from their original ideas, the FB team as not been a) open or b) responsive about privacy concerns. I really respect your work, but FB staff dismissing these concerns because they don't... more... - Jennifer Dittrich

A Twitter or FriendFeed profile doesn't list your address, phone number, schools you attended, employer, personal interests, family members, birthdate, etc. If you fill in the blanks on a Facebook profile, all of that is shown. - Rochelle

+1 Rochelle. - Jeff (Team マクダジ )

Paul, you might be right. When I signed up for Facebook, the first thing I did was lock down everything that I wanted locked down. But not everyone is going to understand that. And it doesn't help that you guys are consistently changing (you may say, refining) how privacy is controlled which just adds to everyone's confusion. Combine that with the fact that it seems like your boss is... more... - Akiva

Perhaps you're reading too much into what I said. All I said was that I made my stuff mostly public, and that I've gotten a lot of value out of that. - Paul Buchheit

I think we'll all look back on this transition from "privacy is essential" to "privacy is an obstacle" to be on the biggest bait-and-switches ever executed at scale (400+ million people). - Carter ♥ JS

I locked down everything... And then everytime some new "feature" rolls out, I need to go back and "re-lockdown" stuff... It's annoying - Jeff (Team マクダジ )

I probably have, Paul. I think I just saw your statement in contrast with the article and went with that. - Akiva

+1 Carter re: biggest bait-and-switches ever executed at scale. - Alex Schleber

I'm curious what everyone here is putting on their fb that is so secret? Maybe I'm doing it wrong. There are certainly things that I don't want out there (like my credit card numbers), but I'm not going to put that on my fb profile. - Paul Buchheit

I don't think it's so much the information as it is the principle of the matter. But maybe that's just me. - Derrick

Btw, I agree that there is a legitimate debate with respect to the way in which Facebook updates defaults, but that wasn't the topic we were discussing. - Paul Buchheit

Really Paul? Look, in all likelihood Facebook, Zuck, and you are succeeding at pulling one over on hundreds of millions of people. And you know exactly what you're doing. Fine, you win, but please spare us this "innocent from the country" routine. A certain class of people (read tech geeks) are not fooled for one second. - Alex Schleber

What Derrick said. - Rochelle

Humor me Alex. I'm genuinely curious what people are most fearful about. - Paul Buchheit

Example: I have friends on Capitol Hill in DC who are insanely paranoid about their public image, but still like sharing some fun photos or stories with close friends. That's one use case. There are MANY more. Please don't treat yourself as representative of 400 million people. - Carter ♥ JS

It's simple really: I use Facebook to communicate with my Family and Friends. Those communications are *not public* and they're damn well going to stay that way. FriendFeed/Twitter are not places where I talk to family and friends. - Otto

For example, why does one need to share a real name, or phone number at all? You don't have to do that with FriendFeed, or Twitter. Can you do that on Facebook at all? - Derrick

The problem I have with the Facebook deal is that it was a bait and switch. They got people to sign up with this understanding that your info was in a closed system and seemingly secure unless you didn't want it to be. Then, after they got everyone to input their info, they said, "Hey, we changed our mind; we're going to give it to advertisers anyway. Quit if you want." - rowlikeagirl

Paul: I get value out of having Twitter and FF completely public. Thats not the issue. The issue here is that FB was originally sold as a private service. Another thing. You and I may have seen value out of being completely public, but the only value to anyone about Grandma Indinana being completely public belongs to the knitting accessories advertisers. - Roberto Bonini

Paul, for me, it's not a matter of fear but a matter of ownership. I'm definitely on the more paranoid end of the scale as I'm only marginally comfortable for people to know even what city I live in. On the other end of that spectrum are guys like Robert and Louis who put their cell phone number on the web and welcome people to call. I don't want any of my information going out of my... more... - Akiva

It's simple, Paul. While I agree that I myself never put much of anything into Facebook I might live to regret, the same isn't true for everybody else. Several examples curated over here: http://alexschleber.amplify.com/2010... - Alex Schleber

This "value to advertisers" meme is interesting. It gets repeated a lot by bloggers, but nobody ever explains what any of this has to do with advertising. Ad targetting could be done regardless of privacy settings (just as Google does). - Paul Buchheit

I have no problem talking to the world about things going on in the world. But that is definitely *NOT* what I use Facebook for. I use Facebook to talk to people I know about things going in our daily lives. I use it to communicate with my BBQ team members. I use it to talk to my mom and dad. None of that is useful for anybody else to know. Nothing I post on Facebook is useful in a... more... - Otto

You have a BBQ team? Is that as awesome as it sounds? - Paul Buchheit

Yes. :) http://www.thequesbrothers.com - Otto

Re "value to advertisers": by making more of FB public/open/crawlable, you can increase the volume of traffic/pageviews and ultimately increase impressions/clicks. Money in the bank. - Carter ♥ JS

And for the record I don't have a FB account. In the old days, snail mail mostly guaranteed privacy for your communications by virtue of the fact that your communiques were physically sealed by you. That essentially is the analogue version of FB pre privacy changes, albeit not at scale. In other words, privacy was implicit in the social convention of exchanging snail mails. With FB,... more... - Roberto Bonini

Can anyone show up to those competitions and eat the food, or do you have to be judge or something? I'd seriously consider making the trip. - Paul Buchheit

"Privacy is hard; let's have a BBQ!" :) - Benjamin Golub

Judging is a process that requires certification and a class, sort of thing. However, the WCBCC here in Memphis next week has a "People’s Choice" category. Basically you pay like $4 and get to judge 5 different samples from 5 different teams. Repeat as many times as you want: http://memphisinmay.org/peoples... And then, of course, if you know somebody on the teams, and can talk 'em into it, then it's all you can eat... :) - Otto

You cannot argue with a thread that gets derailed by BBQ. It's against the law. - Akiva

Carter, I doubt it. Fb has a completely ridiculous number of page views already. The bump from searching random status messages or whatever would not be significant. - Paul Buchheit

Speaking of profiles: Benjamin, you need to update yours to say "Facebooker", right? ;) - Carter ♥ JS

Wow, I'm definitely going to have to go to memphisinmay sometime. - Paul Buchheit

Paul, you can NEVER have too much traffic. Come on... anyway, this thread has made me hungry. And it's only 11am PST! :( - Carter ♥ JS

Carter: As far as I know people that work here don't call themselves Facebookers. But I have that exact question listed in my Twitter profile: http://twitter.com/bgolub - Benjamin Golub

Dang, now I want bbq. - Derrick

"I promise Facebook will or will not take over the world with Likes, targeted ads, and evil privacy violat... oh look, there's a shiny BBQ object over here..." :( - Alex Schleber

Paul, the issue is choice. Facebook users used to be more private by the nature of what Facebook was. It's great if some people want to be more public, but in the process of adding those features, Facebook has most definitely removed choices to keep many things private and essentially coerced more public settings, but yet still operates under a model where people's profiles are expected... more... - Tinfoil 2.0 from iPhone

I'm really glad Paul's talking about this - I wish more of the Facebook team would talk about intentions. I hear a lot through personal connections, but nothing makes a bigger difference than the internal team being willing to talk about this stuff with the public. - Jesse Stay

I have no problems with aspects of my profile being public, but IMO the problem is that Facebook tends to go with default opt-in often enough, and in general isn't consistent with how changes are implemented and doesn't necessarily make it easy for users to know exactly what they're doing. - Deepak Singh

+1 Jesse (as another FBer) - Ashwin Bharambe

Here's my opinion: Facebook is in a no-win situation. If they stay private, everyone criticizes them as a "walled garden", and they can't grow as fast either. If they go public (yet keep privacy controls in place), everyone will criticize them for revealing too much information. I think Facebook's making the right move in making things more public so that future new users know without a... more... - Jesse Stay

Jesse, it ultimately doesn't freaking matter what Paul thinks their intentions are (so far he is sounding a tad naive here), only the eventual *outcomes*. Do you trust Mark Zuckerberg? How about Microsoft or anyone else who may one day buy or control Facebook? - Alex Schleber

Then there's this: http://www.eff.org/deeplin... re: the new "connections" formerly known as Interests, etc. ... yeah, Paul, let's see your detailed response to what is said in that piece. Thanks in advance for not veering off into BBQ. - Alex Schleber

FB Privacy concerns now bore me. For anybody interested in continuing BBQ talk: http://friendfeed.com/otto42... :-) - Otto

Alex, ultimately you can't trust any company, can you? - Jesse Stay

Otto, amen - Jesse Stay

FWIW, Facebook does have a process for users to debate these terms - if enough users disagree Facebook will re-evaluate. I believe the last few times there weren't enough objections to change. - Jesse Stay

Also, FWIW, the only information available by default is here: http://www.facebook.com/help... - specifically, "name, profile picture, gender, current city, networks, friend list, and Pages" - Jesse Stay

I don't think it's that big a deal they're sharing that, personally. Heck, I give away my phone number and e-mail address on my blog, both publicly and in a parseable manner in the source code. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, that "process" is totally rigged. The problem is that users are lazy and stick to defaults (even if those default change over time). Asking lazy people to log objections is very cynical. - Carter ♥ JS

Carter, and I don't think most users really care - Jesse Stay

Well, they don't care * incrementally*. It's like the frog in the water that never notices the water is getting hotter until its too late :) - Carter ♥ JS

Ye ye...keep telling yourself that, Jesse. I think TODAY's Facebook IM glitch proves that they still do care to some extent (if they are conscious of the issues at least). do you want all your instant messages to be public? How about your phone SMS and convos? What if the phone/cell co decides that all that really doesn't need to be private anymore, that your privacy is overrated anyway, and people should just get with the "new openness" program... - Alex Schleber

Alex, you guys are way too paranoid. Just don't put anything online you don't want public and you're fine. That goes for Facebook as well. Educate people on that rather than saying "the sky is falling" with Facebook. - Jesse Stay

"If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."--Google CEO Eric Schmidt - Ashish

Jesse - that is a fine thing to say if people are giving *warning* that what was default private has now become default public *before* it happens. With the changes recently made I now have people who are finding my best friends family members (both girls) because now my likes and wall posts are public. Now I have to stop communicating with them until I figure out all of the myriad ways to hide my FB data and even then the trust has been lost so I doubt I will continue. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Re: Eric Schmidt - search Google for "Eric Schmidt affair", good stuff! http://www.google.com/search... - Carter ♥ JS

i miss friendfeed. - Zee.

As anyone who's married knows, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. - Darren

Facebook did what they had to do to compete long term in the ever changing social landscape. - Darren

It was the right decision. - Darren

Darren, even if FB considered it the proper decision (which I really hope they do for all the grief they are getting) it could have been executed in a more tolerant/privacy friendly manner. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

bear, consider the actions of recent Facebook's warning. It's clear Facebook wants to be more public. - Jesse Stay

Darren.. I agree and they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way. It even uses privacy rules in place since last Nov/Dec, so I don't understand *most* of the recent complaints. - Chris Myles

Chris, agreed - Jesse Stay

Jesse, Chris - that is great that they used existing framework as it did make it easier to check what changed. But what isn't great was the lack of info (and it could be because i'm just now a FB "power user") on the fact that my actions on other's posts/events now cause them to be more visible than *they* want. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Chris/Darren, just because "they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way" doesn't mean we all have to like it. The same could be said e.g. for the Nazi's taking over Germany. - Alex Schleber

Yeah, what LogEx, Akiva, Roberto, etc all said: FB started off closed. People signed on with a certain set of expectations. FF and Twitter started out open, people signed on to those two with different expectations. It's like why no one (reasonably) complains the bus is public but would complain if their taxi started picking up a bunch of other passengers midway - the rules changed midstream, to the detriment of the existing users. - Andrew C (✓)

Oh wow - now Facebook is being compared to the Nazis? Really??? Except you don't have to be on Facebook. The Germans had no choice. I wish those with problems would just kill their accounts and stop complaining. This is getting ridiculous. - Jesse Stay

BTW, I think most of the Facebook team would take serious offense to that Nazi comment - Jesse Stay

Here is another "everything you ever do with/on the Internet is pretty much public" counter-example: Online Dating. Do you want all of your "dating graph" (any profile you ever checked out, messaged, etc.) made public? Yes, there is no absolute expectation of privacy - e.g. vis-a-vis the state/law/etc., but I doubt too many people would have started using these services if the companies had said: BTW, we will eventually make all of this information public or semi-public. - Alex Schleber

Alex, personally, I don't have a problem with that, but I live a boring life. Again, don't use Facebook or a dating site if you have a problem with it. - Jesse Stay

FWIW, those things get exposed all the time - Jesse Stay

...and yes, I agree that one should think twice about posting/using anything on the Web, but that doesn't mean all privacy questions are a binary decision. Just because someone can get to certain information somehow, is NOT the same as a company shoveling it out the door with all hands on deck... as is now the case with FB "Open" Graph. - Alex Schleber

Jesse - will you please *stop* saying "or a dating site if you have a problem with it"! FB started as a private way to share personal information *by design* and then it changed how it works. If FB would let me delete my account and *my data* then I would have done that the first time they changed how things work. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, why can't you delete your Facebook account? It's quite simple. Do it, so long as you stop complaining. - Jesse Stay

Wow. - Derrick

Alex, have you ever seen the information Google has on you? Google has much more than Facebook right now, and you probably don't even know it. - Jesse Stay

@jesse - i'm not complaining about anything except the pious holier than thou way you keep saying "hey, if you post in public you get what you get" while completely ignoring how the rules got changed under the FB users feet. PLUS you can't DELETE an account - it just gets "deactivated" and all of the data remains. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, no rules were changed since December. Features added, yes, but nothing changed. BTW, I'm pretty sure you can delete your account entirely. If not, they can't do anything with the data after you cancel, at least per the terms (only thing they can do is keep it on your friends' news feeds, which I think makes for a much better experience). - Jesse Stay

@bear: True account deletion is possible: http://www.facebook.com/help... (Note: it takes 2 weeks of deactivation before they actually delete the account). - Otto

Evidently this is a holy war now - Jesse Stay

Expectations are fine but times change, facebook started three years before twitter and the only content they have required to be public is your name, profile photo, gender, list of friends and pages you are a fan of (like). They did it using a very public method that forced *everyone* to review and double check their settings and they told you they were migrating to the more public... more... - Chris Myles

Jesse, I was merely referring to Chris' use of "they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way", to which you agreed. As in: that alone isn't a freaking criterion for anything. - Alex Schleber

I wonder if Paul regrets making this particular thought public? :P - Carter ♥ JS

Chris, amen - Jesse Stay

Bear, you can either delete or deactivate. Here's the link to delete: https://ssl.facebook.com/help... - Rochelle

Alex, I was giving kudos to Paul.. I'm impressed, it's powerful. I also don't feel my trust has been violated because I kept up with the privacy changes (http://www.eff.org/deeplin...). I'm looking for people who are ready to move forward (http://friendfeed.com/chrismy...).. I remember these exact arguments last year, I'm ready to move on!! - Chris Myles

Jesse: To some people, not using Facebook is like withdrawing from society. - Gabe

Carter, I am glad he did, this needs to be discussed. I just hope he's been working on FB messaging platform, and therefore doesn't have full visibility to what Zuck has cooked up here. The true implications of this likely won't be apparent for another 1-3 years. I really do hope that Paul's/Jesse's et al. best-case-scenario, optimistic view actually comes to pass. But I'm not holding my breath either. - Alex Schleber

exactly Gabe, the "people can just leave" argument is getting pretty naive at this point. See here: http://alexschleber.amplify.com/2010... - Alex Schleber

Gabe, in that case, just be careful what you put online. If you're that paranoid, kill your account. Heck, kill your internet connection. There is no such thing as perfect privacy. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, please stop the "perfect privacy" straw man argument. There is no perfect anything, so does that mean we can't have an opinion? - Alex Schleber

Jesse: Also, I recall from a movie or TV show trailer a few days ago: "You're being paranoid. That's what someone says right before they betray you...". Frankly, it's also a not-so-thinly-veiled insult as well, since you are referring to us per a DSM-IV diagnosable mental disorder criterion. Just saying... - Alex Schleber

Alex, you may have an opinion, but your argument on Facebook doesn't make sense if you think your privacy can never be exposed. Same goes for Google, Gmail, Orkut, Private Twitter accounts, or any other service where privacy is expected. These things are exposed all the time, often without you knowing - that's a fact of life. Don't put it online if you don't want it exposed. All the complaining and opinions in the world won't stop that. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: That's a poor argument. Being exposed by accident or via a bug is different than being exposed by design. I'd prefer to live in a world where private information can be both online and shared and still well-protected by a proper set of controls. You don't need perfection to achieve this goal. However, you do need to stop moving the target around. - Otto

Alex, sorry but to think that nothing will EVER change is also naive.. I think we've all gone a little extreme to make our points. There is nothing wrong with strong opinions and even expectations but there HAS to be a balance. facebook has done a reasonable job considering they have a microscope us their a$$ and not everyone will be happy with their changes. - Chris Myles

CW, come on - so you're offended that your name, gender, city, network, and friends same info are exposed as you browse the web? Nothing else is exposed, unless you opted in. - Jesse Stay

Oh, and the fact that you "liked" it, but that too is opt-in - Jesse Stay

Google has a really good position paper on opt-in vs opt-out http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/ahrc.... (if anyone is interested). - Chris Myles

"dont put it online if you dont want it exposed" - that is both fair and unfair. True - the only 100% privacy is if you never share anything but that's hardly useful. I think people are entitled to feel that a breach of some covenant has happened when something that used to be under our control (who gets to see what) gets changed and taken out of our control, and automatically shared... more... - Iphigenie

Maybe it would help if Fb had a feature that showed the list of people who had access to what information and why. That way I could say "If I click 'Like' on this post, who will be able to tell", and decide right then if it was worth clicking. - Gabe

Jesse, that's simply not true. When I went to the settings page I have a screenshot of here: http://alexschleber.posterous.com/this-is... ALL of those options were CHECKED by default. And FB has hidden this most important "what my friends can propagate about me" setting 2 layers deep... - Alex Schleber

First, kudos for Paul & Facebook insiders who *dialog* publicly about the elephant in the room. BUT, bottom line: Privacy as normative bait & switch and opt-out settings. Apple gets lauded for 'Hardware-Software That Just Works'; if a modicum of evidence existed that FB has the ethos of 'Privacy That Just Works', there would be more support from the tech-competent and Facebook-history aware public (a small, but influential slice of the whole). - Micah

CW, they told you about the changes and even forced you to accept LAST NOV/DEC (see link above). Are you a fan of the site governance page (which announces future changes to get voted on)? If you don't feel comfortable what are you doing using the tool? - Chris Myles

Although I agree with Paul that it should not be that big a deal that he chose to make his profile fully public (with tiny exceptions) to people - that has never been the problem for me, and I found the flexibility of sharing to a list only to be mostly a matter of courtesy (dont bore school friend with technical shares, or the wrong language) rather than privacy (I always treated it as... more... - Iphigenie

Alex, Did you take a screen shot last Nov/Dec? both of those settings were available for your review then http://www.cynicsunlimited.com/2009.... - Chris Myles

And, provincial as it may be, I'm looking to Josh's dramatic reading of this thread. (**Special Mention**: GO TEAM BBQ!) #JoshHaley #DramaticReadingBOD - Micah

that's it, i'm off to chop peppers in farmville ;) - Iphigenie

OK so obviously there has been a HUGE uproar about this last year and again now.. I've had messages from friends on facebook warning of the dangers and facebook has publicly stated they are trending toward the public social norm.. I was in the middle of no where for 5.5 years and I knew what was going on with facebook. We can't second guess and protect everyone.. but messages were... more... - Chris Myles

I'm just going to let Chris fight this for me - he's doing a great job. I'm behind you all the way Chris! :-) (and I totally agree) - Jesse Stay

But yeah - even my Mom asked me about the changes last Nov/Dec - Jesse Stay

Sorry Jesse, I'm on my last legs here. Privacy, expectations, trust and comfort are all VERY personal and people have to make their own choice!! Don't like (trust,respect) it.. leave. Worried everything will become public someday.. don't share private things. Double check your settings, ask questions, read every future dialog/message and assume future features will default to public sharing.. that's what I'm doing (and have always done). Facebook and me.. we're good! - Chris Myles

Chris, I am too - none of this uproar makes sense to me, but I'm losing energy to fight it. As Otto said, the privacy uproar is getting boring. - Jesse Stay

and that is why I am so glad you are not on the Facebook team dealing with Privacy - the fact that you find something that others find important as boring and not worth discussing. The issue boils down to what a reasonable/non-guru user of FB can expect in regard to their privacy and the answer is that they can only expect FB to change things without notice and to continue to make things opt-in that used to be off by default. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, it's not that I don't find it boring - I find the fact that we're repeating ourselves over and over again boring and the fact that people like you keep spreading false information like "you can't delete your account" boring. - Jesse Stay

I wasn't spreading false information, I was stating my opinion and it was corrected. At the time I last looked at my FB, which was the last time they changed privacy defaults, I could not fully delete it. Now I find you can - so for the folks who come to me for help with computer stuff I can point them to that page if they want. Me personally, I live in this bleeding-edge world and know how to deal with it. A lot of the points I raise are proxy items from the folks who look to me for help. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I thought you got to choose what you enter into Facebook. Phone numbers and addresses and which school you went to etc... Most profiles I have set up for people have been set and forget. Either all closed, friends of friends or open. - Johnny from iPhone

Bear, also, since December, Facebook hasn't changed any previous privacy settings. They've added features since, but your privacy hasn't changed. - Jesse Stay from iPhone

Jesse - the impact of what was left as a default value changed. I say that as a casual user because people are finding me via FB that were not finding me previously via my network and city settings. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, and you still have the option to opt out if you think it's a bigger impact. Everyone was notified 6 months ago exactly what was public and what was private. - Jesse Stay from iPhone

The minimal information exposed really isn't that big an impact though, I don't think. - Jesse Stay from iPhone

again, can you read what i'm saying ... I went into the settings 6 months ago and opted out of a lot of things and now I went back into it and items are now appearing with more options to select than were previously available. So the net change may be giving me more choice but some of the default values were tweaked to a more public view than I expected. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Facebook even sent out an email notifying people - Jesse Stay from iPhone

Jesse, do you think the fact that you are in a part a FB developer (through SocialToo, other?) may taint your point of view here a bit? Are all those people worried about aspects of this (Scoble, Om, various Google developers, etc. etc.), are we all "paranoid"? BTW, I haven't said one thing about account deletion. - Alex Schleber

Jesse I think often forgets that as a FB dev he often sees these changes long before others and has an fuller mental skeleton of what the interactions are than the "normal" user (IMO) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, I deal with the normal user more than I do developer. Most normal users don't care. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, BTW, the settings from 6 months ago (I for one overlooked the "What your friends can share about you through applications and websites" settings, and I am at least semi-savvy on this sort of thing) don't mean much, because ***THEN we didn't know that the entire thing was going to be shared with every possible site out there implementing "Open" Graph with a few copy&pastes.*** If the same stuff was already discoverable through Facebook Connect, then I missed that, ... - Alex Schleber

Jesse - then we inhabit totally different realms of "normal" - by far everyone who I deal with is hating on FB for these changes :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Alex, yes, you missed that - Jesse Stay

Bear, are those you deal with primarily in Silicon Valley? ;-) - Jesse Stay

Jesse - actually no - I live on the east coast and in a rurally conservative area. as far away from Silicon Valley as my job allows :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

... AND of course a lot fewer sites implemented FBConnect (because it was harder), showing up on a site required login with FBC there instead of it being automatic as it is now. Etc. - Alex Schleber

Alex, actually, name, location, gender, profile pic were all available without login via FB Connect before - Jesse Stay

Yes, but what about Interests, Religious orientation, etc. etc. ?!? - Alex Schleber

Alex, and tens of thousands of sites were implementing FB Connect as that information was available - Jesse Stay

Alex, that info isn't available as public by default right now - Jesse Stay

"right now" - that's the battle we're all fighting - for people that care about these things, we can't promise that it will remain any certain way - Christopher Galtenberg

And don't forget the raising of the 24-Hour limit on keeping data going away. That is a bit of a change, no? - Alex Schleber

FYI From Nov's update "Information set to “everyone” is publicly available information, may be accessed by everyone on the Internet (including people not logged into Facebook), is subject to indexing by third party search engines, may be associated with you outside of Facebook (such as when you visit other sites on the internet), and may be imported and exported by us and others without... more... - Chris Myles

The whole 24 hour limit thing is just recognition of the de-facto situation anyway. FB never had any real way to enforce that limit or how people treated the data that was received. - Otto

Christopher, Facebook hasn't made any moves to signify that will be changing any time soon. Not sure what you're getting at. - Jesse Stay

(Christopher G) - Jesse Stay

"any time soon" <- that - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, you can say the same about any other company that holds your data - still not sure what you're getting at - Jesse Stay

Yes you do - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, no I don't (???) - Jesse Stay

I really hope that Zuckerberg turns out to be a benign dictator... - Alex Schleber

Alex, :) me too! - Chris Myles

Wow - Jesse Stay

Re: benign http://www.businessinsider.com/10-reas... - sorry if I'm trolling, just my friend graph can't stop talking about this - Christopher Galtenberg

Look we can't even talk about what has happened, let alone what might. I trust they will give me notice of future changes and no I'm NOT naive. - Chris Myles

Chris, yeah - they haven't violated my trust, yet. - Jesse Stay

Oh great - now Louis Gray shared this on Twitter. Are we going to have to repeat this again? ;-) - Jesse Stay

Christopher, you should read some of the comments on the original post here http://www.rocket.ly/home.... Personally I have no tolerance for overly sensationalized blog posts, I like to make decisions based on facts!! - Chris Myles

Jesse, because you've essentially said you have no trust. (don't put anything online you don't want broadcast). Most FB users were led to believe they *could* trust FB with personal information. - Tinfoil 2.0 from iPhone

LogEx, I haven't said that either. I feel like I can trust Facebook. - Jesse Stay

I read the comments. I'm saying that my FB graph is abuzz about the article, and my friend count is dropping. The article matches the sentiment about FB perfectly. That's what matters, not that point #9 is invalid (it is). - Christopher Galtenberg

If FB allowed for a permanent "opt-out of public data until I say otherwise" that NEVER had to be revised whenever a new feature came along, some of the privacy complaints would be moot. However, this goes against FB's business interest of trying to have it be a more public system(as is alluded to in this thread). - George S.

Looks like it's me, Jesse and Paul :) - Chris Myles

Regardless, a great deal of data is also shared by various FB apps (e.g. when the user gets the dialog requesting that data is shared). This is a backdoor into their "private" data, so to be truly private you'd have to opt-out of many FB apps as well (unless they changed their policies). - George S.

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*sigh* - this is going in a loop - Jesse Stay

Jesse, you said "Don't put it online if you don't want it exposed" in this thread and similar statements in other forums. It's fine if you personally trust FB with your info, particularly since you don't seem to acknowledge that there are valid reasons for people to want and need privacy in their online interactions. But millions of other users don't feel that way, and have been and... more... - Tinfoil 2.0

The fact that there is so much controversy in this thread (and many others like it) are: (1) people want things from Facebook that Facebook no longer delivers; (2) it's difficult to know (particularly for laypeople who don't follow every little move like we all do) what exactly happens with your data and what may happen in the future. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx. Can you totally lock down your account. Is it possible? - Johnny from iPhone

LogEx, that was in response to people paranoid about the existing Facebook privacy preferences. If you have a problem with your name, city, profile picture, and network being exposed, best not to put anything online. Nothing has changed from Facebook. - Jesse Stay

Johnny, NO, it is no longer possible. It used to be. - Tinfoil 2.0

Johnny, your name, city, profile picture, network, and friends will always be visible. Everything else (assuming you don't like anything) can be locked down. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, that's only part of the story - you seem to have an agenda - share what I shared if you want to share the whole story. - Jesse Stay

Before November, the only thing required to be public were your Name and Networks. Friend List, Pages, and "Connections" can be very sensitive. People were brought up in Facebook believing that they had a private place if they wished to interact with friends and family. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, that is correct, and they sent you an e-mail notifying you that was changing. That is the only thing that has changed in years. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, my agenda is, and always has been simple: maximize choice for users so that they can be AS public or AS private as they wish. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, Facebook is *all about* choice. Lock 'er down. The only info exposed is what I listed above. Do you really have a problem with that? - Jesse Stay

Try getting as granular as you can with Facebook on Google or Twitter - you can't. - Jesse Stay

Also note that even Twitter private profiles expose more information than what Facebook does by default. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, part of this issue is trust. FB has a reputation problem, which the "only thing that his changed in years" has a lot to do with. It's a very significant change. Additionally, that "granularity" is both a blessing and a curse. Is there a "One Button" privacy feature? Because some people don't WANT granular. - George S.

Google knows remarkably little about me, due to the way their services are architected and due to the tools they provide. And, yes, I do have a problem with Facebook steadily removing privacy choices in Nov/Dec and again in April. People are now forced to share more. You can no longer "lock 'er down". - Tinfoil 2.0

George, one privacy change in 3 years is a pretty good reputation. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, I think you're naive in thinking that Google knows little about you - Jesse Stay

I don't think that logic is meaningful, because it's a pretty fundamental policy change - George S.

George, everyone has had the opportunity to delete their Facebook account if they choose. It's not a whole lot of information they exposed. Also, the entire Facebook population was given the opportunity to debate the change, as Facebook allows for any policy change. A very insignificant amount of people did. - Jesse Stay

FWIW, even before the change there was info, such as your profile pic and name that were exposed to the public - that has always been the case. - Jesse Stay

I'm not being at all naive Jesse. I use multiple Google accounts and have never populated any Google profiles with real world information about myself. I won't bore you with other details about how I manage my relationship with Google. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, you are definitely not the normal user then - Jesse Stay

Also, "It's not a whole lot of information they exposed" - shouldn't that really be for each user to decide? Not all half billion users are privileged white males who don't have to worry about nuances of what might get exposed about their interactions with friends and family (and around the web). - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, you're on the web, on a social network that gets indexed by search engines - delete your account if you don't like that. I think it's a rather paranoid move if you're really bothered by that, though. Google and Twitter expose default information about you as well. - Jesse Stay

pain = (user-count * new-feature-impact ^ trust-involved). Everyone for or against any certain social network or policy knows that. Another axiom: The fans of the network in question will always act blinkered; the antagonists will still use the network within 60 minutes. - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, you are exactly correct - Jesse Stay

I think this argument isn't really about "default" information. Any service where you identify as a "real" person requires you to share this information. Though it is worth noting that Facebook expects you use your real name, while other services (i.e. Twitter) allow for more anonymity if you so choose. - George S.

George, what is this argument about then? I've lost track. - Jesse Stay

Yes, George S. makes an excellent point. Google and Twitter absolutely do not require your real world identity. Facebook collected hoardes of private real world identity info, THEN declared that much of that was being forced public (or coerced through UI). - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, you're sidetracking the fact that your name has been public for quite some time now - Jesse Stay

(goes to look up the default information listed in I'm on Facebook--Now What??? back in 2007) - Jesse Stay

This betrayal of trust shows two things: 1) FB is afraid of losing the real-time search content to Twitter and 2) Zuckerberg has learned *nothing* from the Beacon disaster. - Dave Hodson

Dave, what betrayal of trust? - Jesse Stay

Feels like he's repeating himself --> - Jesse Stay

Jesse: betrayal of trust -- users expect their data to be private. Pulling a fast one on them with new "default" settings that remove privacy setting is a betrayal. - Dave Hodson

Understands why Paul has given up on this conversation --> - Jesse Stay

Because you are not listening to the valid concerns of others. - Tinfoil 2.0

Dave, nothing fast has been pulled - read my comments above - Jesse Stay

Jesse: I have a teenage relative. I went through this person's profile and was shocked what the "suggested" defaults now expose to the world. - Dave Hodson

2 of the key privacy concerns on FB are more about 1) change from default-private to default-public, 2) How your other information is used by 3rd parties (e.g. Apps, etc., like when the app asks to share your info). In #2, most people just blindly "Allow". But they don't really know what they might be sharing, or to whom. - George S.

LogEx, I've heard it all - none of it is making sense. No privacy settings were removed this time around. - Jesse Stay

George, there has *always* been information available as public - Jesse Stay

They absolutely were changed in April via Connections. - Tinfoil 2.0

Jesse, I don't think you're grasping what I'm saying. - George S.

In 2007 they made all profiles on Facebook indexable by Google, to the extent of your name and some other small information (I'll look it up when I get home) - Jesse Stay

From another FF conversation: "The best privacy setting of all is yourself." Only give FB what you want to show up on CNN.com. Which for me is pretty much nothing now. - Christopher Galtenberg

LogEx what was changed? - Jesse Stay

Christopher, I agree with that - Jesse Stay

Jesse - perhaps you don't agree with my thoughts, but at least agree that there is negative sentiment out there about this and FB hasn't done a good job of clarifying changes. - Dave Hodson

Dave, your thoughts are 100% incorrect - it's not that I don't agree. It's that they're completely false. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, see: http://www.eff.org/deeplin... & http://www.eff.org/deeplin... & http://www.eff.org/deeplin... - Tinfoil 2.0

Jesse - wow, that is really funny. I don't know that I've ever been 100% incorrect before. Glad you have an open mind on this topic. - Dave Hodson

LogEx, you were given the opportunity to opt out of connections. If you don't like it, kill it. - Jesse Stay

Right, delete large sections of profile because FB no longer allows you to share them privately. That sounds like a great feature. - Tinfoil 2.0

Dave, you're not listening to me - your information has pretty much always been available as public. When did you first create your Facebook account? - Jesse Stay

Name and Networks have historically been the only things public. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, then delete your Facebook profile if you don't like that. You have plenty of choice. Nothing is being taken away from you. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, you are correct. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, that's what you don't get. The point is that FB has been steadily removing choices. - Tinfoil 2.0

Jesse - I'm listening, I'm just 100% incorrect - Dave Hodson

Dave, exactly - Jesse Stay

Delete your profile = choice? - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, yup, that's still choice if you're offended by that little information being shared about you. Are you really *that* reliant on Facebook? - Jesse Stay

FB has become so so insistent at removing choices at the privacy end of the spectrum while boosting choices at the publicity end. To deny that people have at least as much need of privacy as they do of publicity is naive and dangerous. - Tinfoil 2.0

These things are tools - if they're not useful any more, don't use them. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, "*so* insistent" - 2 times in the last 3 years? - Jesse Stay

Sorry, my cut-and-paste typo. - Tinfoil 2.0

We know what you're saying, Jesse. Thanks for representing. And actually, am about to find out how dependent I am/was -- interested to see. - Christopher Galtenberg

The more you apologize for what everyone is trying to tell you is wrong, the more guilty you look. Stop apologizing for Facebook, Jesse. People shared who their real friends were, using their real names, and even tagged pictures of their kids, because they were told it would be safe and private. Now that hundreds of millions of people are locked in, Facebook is forcing its "privacy doesn't exist" model on them. It's fucked up and you know it. - Mr. Gunn

I don't have a problem with the changes in privacy settings (and I'm a lot more paranoid about privacy then Paul is). I DO care about the "pre-approved data sharing" though. I don't want CNN to be able to link the stories I read with my real name because I'm concerned about the potential to link me-as-a-real-person to a profile based on news stories I read. - Nick Lothian

One might be quite happy to walk down the beach with a wife or daughter, knowing that a handful of people might be looking at them lasciviously. Having someone collect pictures of them and a lot of private data under the false pretence of privacy and trust and then start sharing them around is a different thing entirely. The word pimp springs to mind. IMHO of course. - Jan Simmonds

+1 Mr. Gunn. Wow, quite the conversation while I was gone. I agree with @Zee much further up: I miss the old Friendfeed conversation days...FF was never the same after the buy-out shock. "Damn you Zuckerberg for siphoning off the FF team to slave away in the FB salt mines"... - Alex Schleber

See also: Facebook’s Paul Buchheit ***justifies*** increasing openness, less privacy http://social.venturebeat.com/2010... - Alex Schleber

Paul, For starters - both FriendFeed and Twitter have not changed their privacy policy as frequently and as ominously as Facebook has. :( And, I DON'T WANT ALL OF MY FRIENDS TO KNOW WHAT I AM DOING ON THE WEB - GOD DAMN IT. :) - Space Cowboy

Alex, you have an incredible talent for spinning context and slicing and dicing a conversation to *amplify* your point of view. Did you read the post you linked to? It says the exact same thing as the one Paul linked to above.. and there was no justification, just Paul's reasons for opening up his settings. I'm sure he's quite comfortable given his friendfeed history, it doesn't mean you or anyone else has to be!! - Chris Myles

I watch "best of day" emails from FriendFeed every day and this is the first one that got me excited about coming into FriendFeed for more than the past month. Is FriendFeed coming back? This thread shows it has the potential to. - Robert Scoble

Robert, While you're here.. what are your thoughts? - Chris Myles

People realizing that FB is basically a public network now should actually consider the best open public sharing network: this one. - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, there is *nothing* better than friendfeed (for me). - Chris Myles

Agreed - feels like a secret that people are yet to wake up to - almost everything good you want to do on the web you can do here (share, save, learn, filter, search, group, like, nudge, chat, dialogue) - Christopher Galtenberg

I even use private groups with *great* success! - Chris Myles

The real issue here, is that it's only us geeks that know there's a real facebook privacy issue OR give a shit. Most "normal" people have no idea their "private" info is wide open or that Zuck's constantly changing the rules of the game. That said, no one's forced to use FB. BTW: I'm 99.9% certain Zuck's gonna get away with this bait & switch bullshit. - Jim Connolly

Oh - and Friendfeed is MASSIVELY better than Facebook. - Jim Connolly

Been on-line since 1989, for someone who wants your information, there is no such thing as private information in a community environment. - Justin Hitt

1UP Jim. - Derrick

Chris, 1) of course I read the post I linked to, and apparently VentureBeat came away with a similar impression, that Paul's forays on this stuff have a tinge of "justifying." Look, it's OK, in the end FB can & will do whatever it wants, it's just that this strange "what privacy issues?" sermonizing is giving me the willies. Too much FB kool-aid already. And there seem to be a lot of other people on this thread who have similar feelings. - Alex Schleber

Justin, there's no such thing as an unstealable car either, but that doesn't invalidate the purpose of door locks. - Micah

... 2) I whole-heartedly agree that FF still rules, even though there has been no development in nearly a year, which is shocking if you think about it. I really wish FB hadn't bought these guys out, they could have done much better work here FASTER. Hey, money is money. After the buy-out, things went all emo on here though...so it hadn't been particularly useful for tech discussions. Nothing wrong with how the remaining folks use it, but that had never been my use case. - Alex Schleber

3) I am very happy to see that despite out differences, we can all still agree on Friendfeed being a superior solution. It's a shame that Google hasn't done a better job with Buzz (why is frankly beyond me), they could have done a FF++ and things would have been gravy... - Alex Schleber

4) BTW Scoble seems to be of two minds about it, he knows what FB is up to (and has argued that pretty much nothing can be done about it anymore), but also likes spying on other people's musical tastes on Pandora, etc. :) He gets "great value from that"... - Alex Schleber

Robert Scoble: FriendFeed is growing slowly. It's not a big-audience site like you're looking for, but it's still a place for great discussions. - Bruce Lewis

Bruce, that may be true but Robert's stated time and time again that he prefers tech-oriented discussions over anything else. Once he couldn't successfully get tech people to commit to FriendFeed, he wandered back to Twitter... or was it Buzz? Maybe it was Facebook. I can't remember. - Akiva

Don't you mean: FF is slowly returning to what it used to be. - Roberto Bonini

And honestly, I'm mostly with him on that. I miss the early days of FriendFeed when it was 80% tech and 20% LOLcats. Now it's 80% drama and 20% LOLcats. - Akiva

The only thing I dislike about Facebook's changes is that they made Friends and Pages public information. When they did that, I had to go and remove about 30% of my Friends and almost all of my Pages. It was quite annoying and I found that I used Facebook much less afterwards, since it was no longer a safe place to communicate with people. But if that's what Zuck wants, so be it. I'll just not use it as much. - Otto

Akiva: And 72% statistics that are made up on the spot (18.15573% of which are unnecessarily precise). - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo from iPhone

LOLs @Stephen. In this debate, statistics mean very little. - Roberto Bonini

At the moment, I really only use FB to a) share web links and things with friends, b) promote my own stuff via Pages and subscribers, and c) party/event tracking. I've blocked all the crappy game things long ago, so those don't bother me so much. Realistically, Facebook is only really useful to me as a venue for people to follow my own feeds (via the Like Pages mechanism). I have 400 odd followers that way. Facebook has become a feed-reader. - Otto

Akiva, if you're seeing too much drama, you're too hesitant to click Hide. - Bruce Lewis

Some REAL good points being made here! - Jim Connolly

Bruce, to know which threads need hiding, I have to see them first. - Akiva

There aren't enough drama posts to make anyone's feed 80% drama by virtue of seeing them once. The only way to have an 80% drama experience here is to let them keep popping back up. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Oh. You took my percentages seriously. Probably not a good idea. - Akiva

Joking is fine. I just want to make sure people reading this thread understand that you can get whatever flavor of conversation you want out of FriendFeed, percentage-wise. Absolute quantities are limited, but that can be a good thing. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Bruce, you're being Apple to Akiva's DeGeneres. :) - Micah

Micah, that's cool! Tomorrow Akiva is going to get on his show, apologize, and talk at length about what a fan he is of me and things I make. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Then you both win. - Micah

Can I high-five Akiva now, or do I have to act mad until after the apology? - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Robert, I haven't had to mute a thread in a long time - maybe you're right ;-) - Jesse Stay

I have no clue what you people are talking about any longer. - Akiva

me neither Akiva - i just came to post that "i saved a ton of money by switch my car insurance to Geico" ;) (not really, they stink) - Jeff (Team マクダジ )

Akiva, Micah was saying that I took your joke too seriously the way Apple took a DeGeneres joke too seriously. It was a nice way to ask me to lighten up. I complied by jokingly taking his analogy too far. Of course, explaining all this makes the joke 80% less effective. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Ah. But it makes me 20% less clueless now. - Akiva

Pay attention. We are talking about BBQ. OMGWTFBBQ. - Laura Norvig

You took his what seriously on the *internet*? - Christopher Galtenberg

For all of you self righteous privacy advocates out there, nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use Facebook! In case you all are not aware, you can choose what info to include in your profile, nobody is forcing you to enter your phone #, etc... You can even use a fake name if you'd like. You can choose what people can see what info, the tools are there to setup your account pretty much any way they want to - Brian from FFHound!

"self righteous privacy advocates" - you couldn't be more illuminating, Brian - Christopher Galtenberg

disrepute and shifty ethics: the FF/FB model of selling out & "professionalism"; this can surely be just more lip service "From Facebook, answering privacy concerns with new settings" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn... - sofarsoShawn

Steve Gillmor to Steve's feed, RealTime Network

Gillmor Gang, Live Recording Session at 12 Noon PT. Participate at http://www.building43.com/realtim...

April 22, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

Roberto Bonini, Alex de Soto, Susan Beebe and 9 other people liked this

f8 is today's topic, I assume? - Matt M (inactive)

366 more comments

Could be. - Cliff Gerrish

Gillmor Gang will get underway in about 5 minutes. - Cliff Gerrish

OK, waiting for the call. - Robert Scoble

Today's music, while on hold, Ghostland Observatory. Of course if you are friends of me on Pandora/Facebook you already know that. :-) - Robert Scoble

looking forward to listening to this on youtube later - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Marshall: Or Pandora: http://bit.ly/8ZZdon - Robert Scoble

heh, no I mean to the show :) that's how i tend to consume the Gang, with youtube on iphone in my pocket while i'm out walking my dogs. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

my dogs hear the GG theme song, Steve's voice, and they go nuts, jumping all over, looking for their leashes. it's a whole family thing. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Live now, thanks! - Robert Scoble

Present and accounted for! - Stephen Pickering

is facebook still on track to serve 1billion 'likes' within 24hrs? - michael sean wright

smallish number of people "liking" the example code. ;-) - Ian McGee

Marshall - there is a feed for the audio only version (comes out a couple days after the show) - http://173.203.214.15/podcast... - Rob La Gesse

2 sites I visited today got hung up due to facebook integration. how much does this slow down the web? - michael sean wright

OK, I think I'm ready to stop watching this now. This is really annoying. - Matt M (inactive)

It's an iframe. - Cliff Gerrish

this is the same data facebook has on us. - michael sean wright

It's an iframe, but it's initialized via JS. - Matt M (inactive)

Yeah, it's moving a bookmarklet off the chrome and into the page. - Cliff Gerrish

Go Cowboys! - Rob La Gesse

Da Boys! - Stephen Pickering

one company owning the social graph. - michael sean wright

Are you talking about Twitter? - Cliff Gerrish

What's missing is context though. I Like articles on some topics with some friends, and completely different with my kids and even other with distant relatives. Tools coming to manage this? - Ian McGee

once upon a time, people feared doubleclick having so much data on us, pales in comparison to what facebook now has. facebook wants to be the layer between you and the net. how many people are going to by default, stay logged in to facebook not knowing that facebook is still there, collecting as you surf 100's of sites? - michael sean wright

michael... Facebook wants to be the layer between you and the world. With hundreds of millions of users with real world identities, the bridge between offline and online is increasingly built, raising significant dangers to individuals. - Tinfoil 2.0

Google and Microsoft also want to be the layer between you and the world. Twitter does too. - Cliff Gerrish

But Google and Twitter (and presumably Microsoft) don't require real world identities to use their services. That's the key, there's no way to partition off your Facebook life like you can with virtually every other service out there. - Tinfoil 2.0

that's all nice, but I have no intention of mashing everything up over on facebook. over there I'm just another face on the book. - Karoli

but as more sites adopt these really powerful FB "social widgets"...it will be hard to just be a face on the book... - .LAG liked that

The age allows Facebook to show me hair growth ads :) - Mike Doeff

the big push back is not being able to outrun the reach of facebook. it's one thing to willingly abide by the rules of using facebook while there but to be leaking data back while i'm not there is not kosher. a cookie can only tell a third party a few things, my social graph is who i am. - michael sean wright

+1 Michael - .LAG liked that

I don't know that it's true to say that your 'social graph' is 'who you are.' - Cliff Gerrish

Michael - your social graph does not belong to you. Deal with it :) - Rob La Gesse

Google social search is really neat - Susan Beebe

Social graph is a network of which you may be a node. - Cliff Gerrish

Gaming the system is age-old. BFD - Karoli

Rob - I agree but I feel a responsibility to those in my social graph to consider the cost of dragging them along the facebookweb. - michael sean wright

Social behavioral search is valuable for understanding the web in context of your friends interests - Susan Beebe

I'm just happy you guys aren't talking about the iPad again. - Alex de Soto

Andrew shouldn't be calling FriendFeed a POS with the creator there, that's just impolite - Stephen Pickering

Gee, I wonder how great Facebook will be on the iPad? - Cliff Gerrish

Let's talk about Facebook on the iPad :) - Rob La Gesse

hehe - Susan Beebe

Oh nooooo! - Alex de Soto

Yes, bring FF koolaid over to FB - Susan Beebe

Bret said yesterday that no resources from Facebook are being used for FriendFeed. - michael sean wright

feed fart - Rob La Gesse

lost the feed - Susan Beebe

me too - .LAG liked that

Everything went down - Robert Scoble

ditto - Mike Doeff

My Skype disconnected. - Robert Scoble

gotta love technology - Susan Beebe

I guess Gillmor's net connection went down. - Robert Scoble

Please wait while Facebook reboots the Internet - Rob La Gesse

overheated :) - Mike Doeff

OK :D - Susan Beebe

.LOLz! - .LAG liked that

Hang out a few seconds, let's see if they come back. - Robert Scoble

Right, the most important issue is getting Fiber to the Curb, Gigabit Internet, that's the real revolution - Stephen Pickering

We are coming back. - Robert Scoble

We can talk about the iPad while we wait. - Rob La Gesse

Good - Susan Beebe

I'm connected again, be back in a second. - Robert Scoble

iPad iPad iPad - Mike Doeff

Facebook as the single point of failure for the Net... - .LAG liked that

we're back! - Susan Beebe

Cool. - Robert Scoble

Once we have fiber, no one will control the internet or be a point of failure - Stephen Pickering

Whoever controls the fiber will control the Internet - to some extent - Rob La Gesse

The Fiber Barrons!!! - Stephen Pickering

That was Enron ;) - Rob La Gesse

No, wasn't it that Mississippi Company? - Stephen Pickering

what about authorized apps? - michael sean wright

I wish Kevin Marks was here, he brought up some technical points that I didn't understand about this on TWiG yesterday - Stephen Pickering

Somebody needs to do a remedial review of iframes and same origin restrictions. - Cliff Gerrish

http://www.nytimes.com/2002... - Rob La Gesse

Is there no way, via XSS or other, for a malicious site to grab the iframe content? - Tinfoil 2.0

How many users are going to understand that the data isn't shared? - Alex de Soto

The iframed code can get the URL of the parent, but that's it. - Cliff Gerrish

Kevin brought up that the code they are using, and Gina Tripani agreed, was not open standard - Stephen Pickering

I mean the code you would put on your site - Stephen Pickering

Alex: not many - Robert Scoble

Big difference between an explicit Like button and something like Glue where any pages that you surf to - e.g. an imdb page - show up in your history - Mike Doeff

Not the code that Kevin developed for Google. And not Activity Streams. - Cliff Gerrish

oooh I didn't realize that the 3 partners MS, Yelp & Pandora have exclusive / separate data contracts with facebook - NOT same as social plugins...oooo - Susan Beebe

right - the code is facebook code not standard activity stream. - michael sean wright

Thanks Cliff and Michael, I wonder if we can get someone to pose the question to Bret about that concern - Stephen Pickering

Activity stream is an open standard - but this points up the difference between having a standard and 450 million users; and just having a standard. - Cliff Gerrish

but would you sign one with zynga? - michael sean wright

we can hear Steve via the building43.com ok - Susan Beebe

...what about the pRon site that writes a really big check? - .LAG liked that

Bret, what about a Like button that someone puts on their blog and they configure it with a URL to some spam site - e.g. teeth whitening. How do you prevent that? - Mike Doeff

Mike - and that's rampant already. - michael sean wright

Bret - NICE JOB on f8 :) love it - Susan Beebe

Now time for the iPad phase of the show - Mike Doeff

Good!! I was worried Steve would end the show. I'm glad he didn't - Stephen Pickering

Agreed - it's a tectonic shift on web. Facebook just pwnd Google :P - Susan Beebe

Beacon without the Bacon :) - Susan Beebe

not only was it a huge shift, it's an over reach on a scale we've never seen. - michael sean wright

facebook can already segment traffic by geo, gender, age, etc. - Susan Beebe

Just because Facebook wins, doesn't mean Google loses, this isn't a zero sum game - Stephen Pickering

the scary thing is the amount of publishers tripping over themselves to give control of their community to facebook. - michael sean wright

facebook just made static sites instantly social - and ties it all back to the mothership - freakin' awesome move - Susan Beebe

Static sites still need to include the code -- there's an action that needs to be taken first. - Cliff Gerrish

Susan, agreed - Stephen Pickering

What about all of the people opting out of Facebook Instant Personalization? Fringe group or is this the majority? http://search.twitter.com/search... - Mike Doeff

This re invigorates the Open Web - Stephen Pickering

Google knows what you search for - YAWN. - Susan Beebe

Cliff, but there's a big incentive - Stephen Pickering

Facebook is generating a whole new layer of the social web - THAT's revolutionary - Susan Beebe

It's the social index vs. the page index. - Cliff Gerrish

Right - facebook just added huge amount of CONTEXT to page index stats - Susan Beebe

...so in the end, it's all just another advertising play? - .LAG liked that

google = small teams working on disparate tools and being fully aware of scrutiny. facebook = full scale push towards $ with 100% focus on the big return. - michael sean wright

Exactly, but do you know how big the Advertising Market is? - Stephen Pickering

it's HUGE - .LAG liked that

disclaimer: I work in advertising - .LAG liked that

I see the Facebook initiative as part of the maturation of the web. Accountability instead of anonymity becomes the predominant meme. - Jim Posner

LOL :D - Susan Beebe

But Michael, if Facebook behaves "evil" the Free Market will regulate them - Stephen Pickering

Yep, GraphAPI is huge - Susan Beebe

Social Graph! Network of your friends, shows your connectedness - Susan Beebe

...that's a lot of biz cards Scobleizer - .LAG liked that

facebook has acted evil, slow to change and constant confusing changes to policy hasn't hindered them yet. they have not earned our trust yet by default of size we just let it slide. - michael sean wright

...Michael: that's my biggest concern -- their technology is awesome -- their trustworthiness has not been established - .LAG liked that

Thank good we're not yet talking about social G-R-A-F-T. You know, implants on your skin that connect to the Network. - Alex de Soto

All companies have 'acted evil' - Cliff Gerrish

Alex... FB did announce an RFID product... you will be chipped, eventually - .LAG liked that

It's the hive mind - Mike Doeff

So what's the next step with Facebook RFID chip? LBS checkins? obviously, much more *could* be done with it - Susan Beebe

Big brother :) - Susan Beebe

Anybody have Gray Powell on their graph? - Alex de Soto

1984 - Stephen Pickering

the new world will also include a definition of your social graph, the more you interact with a particular node the more prominence it receives. - michael sean wright

really think the evil vs. non-evil is a cartoonish way to view the world. Only in comics does that world view work. - Jim Posner

they didn't talk about mobile because geo tagging is not ready yet according to bret - michael sean wright

I do too - Stephen Pickering

facebook + docs is very interesting. - Cliff Gerrish

yes, weird to see M$ & facebook partnership - Susan Beebe

Susan, not considering their big investment early on - Stephen Pickering

Ah, good point. - Susan Beebe

I broke FB -> docs within seconds http://img.skitch.com/2010042... - Rob La Gesse

Smart move by M$ to instantly get Docs.com to go mainstream by leveraging facebook platform as the backend for collaboration messaging - Susan Beebe

New often means "broken" these days - Rob La Gesse

Yes, but it still has to perform. Google Docs will constantly innovate - Stephen Pickering

I don't see myself using docs.com. I only use MS Office products at work. Outside of work it's all Google Docs for me. - Mike Doeff

...no company is unstoppable - .LAG liked that

Correct link :) http://img.skitch.com/2010042... - Rob La Gesse

I don't see the privacy concern. One can completely lock down their Facebook account if they want - Stephen Pickering

I am really glad to see Google get some real competition. - Jim Posner

Robert don't count out Bebo :) - Mike Doeff

Robert is overstating. Twitter is a Juggernaut too - Stephen Pickering

Stephen... yes, you can lock down your FB account, but it's not as easy as it might seem, and I suspect 100s of millions of users simply won't spend the time - .LAG liked that

well said Steve - Jim Posner

Stephen - a lot of normal users won't know what data is being shared or what the dangers are. - Michele Neylon

the iPad's not important to justify its own Facebook app - Tim Jones

Tim - it will be - VERY quickly - Rob La Gesse

Michele, yes one weird thing I see is that even on completely locked down accounts, one can still see the photos is someone else who isn't locked down comments on one photo, anyone can see not only that photo but the whole album its a part of. Isn't that weird? - Stephen Pickering

right - facebook is the strongest team, most momentum and brand. think the vulnerability is being too wide. the noise in the stream for the average user will overwhelm them. the general user is a scanner and not going deeper. good opportunity for more specific interest sites to grow. (theory only) - michael sean wright

Really want to see a facebook app on the iPad - Jim Posner

Stephen - there's a lot of that kind of thing and it freaks out a lot of people and it's far from easy to see what is or isn't being shared - Michele Neylon

Do you think Facebook is trying to make a move against Apple for some reason by not putting out a Table app? - Stephen Pickering

Jim, and when they release that they need to include video support. Very annoying that the FB app on iPhone doesn't support video. - Mike Doeff

here comes the Android army. welcome Lenovo - Tim Jones

But Scoble, you have to look at the value of the whole Eco System as a whole - Stephen Pickering

Zynga are making a LOT of money - Michele Neylon

85 million on Farmville - Tim Jones

C'mon there must be some value there, if she wants to play this game - Stephen Pickering

Steve is right - still early - Mike Doeff

Would like to see Chrome or Firefox on the iPad - Jim Posner

Zynga are very good at doing what they do - Michele Neylon

But its not a competition. You can buy Beatles and Stones albums - Stephen Pickering

Farmville is boring...and yet strangely addictive - .LAG liked that

Although at the time, you were either a Beatles or Stones fan. - Cliff Gerrish

The revolution is being updated. - Jim Posner

Mafia Wars sucks you in .. no idea why, but it does .. - Michele Neylon

waiting for capable Android or Win 7 slates - Tim Jones

The revolution is being updated wirelessly on your mobile device. - Cliff Gerrish

Michele, your right. It's almost unbelievable that a locked down account is opened simply by another friend commenting on a photo - Stephen Pickering

the significant shift is the reach of layer facebook now has spread across the web. will be hard to be a layer on top of that. - michael sean wright

...I like the "LIKE" button, and will be adding it to my sites - .LAG liked that

I can't believe there hasn't been a lawsuit against that - Stephen Pickering

Stephen - yup. I can see it happening :) And it won't be one lawsuit - it will be a whole load of them .. - Michele Neylon

Stephen, Michele... you can prevent that from happening if you dig deep into the FB privacy settings to find the "what your friends share about you" panel...but it's BURIED - .LAG liked that

in favelas people use netbooks, Nokias, no Apples to be found - Tim Jones

It's really unbelievable. If I have a locked down account, it's opened simply by one of my friends commenting on one of my photos. Why is there no outcry? - Stephen Pickering

slums I have been in..didn't have much internet access...they didn't have running water.. - Jim Posner

LAG, ah, IC. Really devious - Stephen Pickering

So, they're in the letter of the law but not the Spirit - Stephen Pickering

...I just think FB privacy defaults are bad for users, but GREAT for FB - .LAG liked that

Addressing privacy concerns is important, but seems to be ignored by the "cool kids" - Michele Neylon

Thanks Steve, Tina, et al ! - Rob La Gesse

Very good show, guys - Ian McGee

yes, thanks! l8r - .LAG liked that

Michele, I agree, the "influencers" are losing credibilty by not crying foul on this - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: privacy is dead, get over it. - Robert Scoble

Stephen - they've done more than not cry foul - and there you go - Scoble hath spoken (again) - Michele Neylon

Robert I'm not worried about it, but if someone does choose to lock down their account, its opened simply by someone commenting on one of their photos. Don't you find that disturbing? - Stephen Pickering

awesome job - sofarsoShawn

Stephen: no. Don't put your private pictures on facebook. - Robert Scoble

I have three naked photos of me on the Internet. I survived. - Robert Scoble

Well, I'm not worried about it myself, My accounts completely open, but I'm just saying for those who truly only want friends and family - Stephen Pickering

So will you. - Robert Scoble

Stephen: if you only want friends and family don't use Facebook. Times change. - Robert Scoble

Stephen: use SmugMug or Pipio. - Robert Scoble

OK, OK, I've beat it too death!!! I see your point. I don't know why I'm even arguing it, since all my stuffs open anyway :-)) - Stephen Pickering

Jim , you need to check out the internet cafes in Barangay Magsaysay La Paz Iloilo Philippines. the machines all look like Alienwares - Tim Jones

Stephen: exactly. Privacy is dead. - Robert Scoble

Thanks everyone. Great show. Great participation from everyong. - Cliff Gerrish

Stephen: if it weren't dead everyone would be moving to Pip.io. - Robert Scoble

Stephen: and they are not. So the argument is over. - Robert Scoble

Tim-Actually was in Tondo...not so much internet when I was there..but it's been a few years - Jim Posner

Well, I'm just playing devils advocate. I've been excited by yesterday - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: me too. I'm listening to Tom Conrad's Pandora. :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert, that's bs about privacy being dead. here's my argument http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive... - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Stephen - just because Scoble likes to put naked photos of himself on the internet doesn't mean that other people want to. - Michele Neylon

Yeah, that is just too cool, agreed - Stephen Pickering

Marshall: if your argument had any weight everyone would be leaving Facebook. They aren't. The argument is over. - Robert Scoble

Well Michele, .LAG did inform us that it could be done, a complete lock down, so that's that - Stephen Pickering

Michele: I'm sure that that Apple guy wants his iPhone back too. It ain't gonna happen and we'll have to deal with the new world we all live in. - Robert Scoble

really? people all over the world have been freaking out about Facebook's removal of privacy, I've been doing interviews with media outlets all over the world about it. - Marshall Kirkpatrick

and I think that's a logical fallacy - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Robert, your cavalier statements about privacy are dangerous and betray a lack of understanding. - Tinfoil 2.0

Damn, my heads hurting - Stephen Pickering

Marshall: I'm sure they are freaking out. But are they leaving? No. - Robert Scoble

...this after-chat is better than the show! - .LAG liked that

LogEx: I bet I understand privacy in more depth than you do. - Robert Scoble

Stephen - the problem is that most people aren't aware of how much data they are sharing. Scoble's argument is incredibly weak. - Michele Neylon

they can't leave Robert, their friends and family connections are trapped there - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Exactly, let the Free Market decide - Stephen Pickering

Robert, easy to say with no possible way to prove. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx: have you seen a Scoble sex video? I do have privacy. It is not dead. But a lot of my privacy is dead. - Robert Scoble

Marshall - exactly - Michele Neylon

So it's irresponsible to say that privacy is dead and leave it at that. Because it's a lie. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx: I have studied privacy and our changing society in more depth than anyone. - Robert Scoble

Michele, that's a good point: you simply don't know how much is out there on FB, because you only see it through YOUR lens... - .LAG liked that

LogEx: I just am bored with the argument as framed. - Robert Scoble

Between yesterday and this http://librarianbyday.net/2010..., my heart is just about done with FB. - Christopher Galtenberg

Yeah, I am too. Let's look at the Good Side at what they are doing. - Stephen Pickering

LogEx: it's irresponsible to want to live in the world as it existed two days ago That world is gone. That's why it is NOT irresponsible to tell people that our ideas about privacy are dead. - Robert Scoble

LogEx - agreed. - Michele Neylon

LogEx: we all need to change our ideas about what privacy is and we need new skills to deal with the changing privacy world. - Robert Scoble

People have choices. My Sister chooses not to be on Facebook and she is happy with her life - Stephen Pickering

i usually don't worry about what mainstream people want or need, i just focus on what's interesting to me, but the privacy stuff is really dangerous and irresponsible - Marshall Kirkpatrick

The less privacy, the less meaningful the sharing will be. - Christopher Galtenberg

LogEx: for instance, I don't check in at home on Foursquare. I could, but I don't. Why is that? - Robert Scoble

Robert, you are a public figure. You CHOOSE to have reduced privacy and enhanced publicity. Don't remove choice from the rest of the society just because it suits you better. - Tinfoil 2.0

Because you have a free will and take responsibility for yourself - Stephen Pickering

Marshall: the changing world is dangerous and irresponsible. 40,000 people die in cars every year. That worries more than if my naked photos are on the Internet. - Robert Scoble

LogEx - exactly. If there was any level of privacy Scoble would cease to exist, as he only exists in public - Michele Neylon

LogEx: EVERYONE is a public figure if they are on the Internet. - Robert Scoble

Robert, I think it would depend on which photos those were. - Cliff Gerrish

Michele: bullshit. - Robert Scoble

Michele: I existed before the Internet. - Robert Scoble

Michele that's unfair. He's got a private life - Stephen Pickering

Robert, one of my favorite examples: I had a friend tell me about people she knew who wanted to be Fans of a podcast for couples struggling to conceive children, but they didn't want family etc. to know about it. they used to be able to subscribe via Fandom privately, then that was made irrevocably public. why on earth are my subscriptions (facebook likes) not able to be private?? - Marshall Kirkpatrick

.LOLz! @Cliff - .LAG liked that

Stephen - I'm sure he does - Michele Neylon

Marshall Because they are not. Deal with it. - Robert Scoble

But he chooses to share what he chooses to share and we all have that choice which is great - Stephen Pickering

Marshall: I choose to live in the world as it is, not how I wish it to be. Although the world as I wish it to be makes for good blog posts. - Robert Scoble

Stephen - that's not entirely true. I have the choice to take my car's engine apart, but I don't know how. - Michele Neylon

Damn! I missed the show today.. I'm sure it was a good one. Hopefully a recorded archive will be up very soon! - Kevin Costain

Marshall: Microsoft execs thought their emails were private too. Was it a shame that they were shared in public due to DOJ action? - Robert Scoble

Targeted 'likes' to a private group -- sounds like a FriendFeed feature. - Cliff Gerrish

well, the world as it is is a mess, i don't know why you don't want to use this huge platform you have to point out when things are moving far away from what you wish they'd be - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Marshall: I just don't put ANYTHING on a computer that I don't wish to have on the front page of the New York Times. - Robert Scoble

We've had good discussions on this in the past. We're using *companies* to put things online. The only sane assumption should be zero privacy. - Christopher Galtenberg

Marshall: and note that my drunken photos were on Techcrunch. I survived. Privacy is dead. - Robert Scoble

Christopher: exactly. If it touches the keyboard it can be public. - Robert Scoble

well, for hundreds of millions of people they can either have private and secure Facebook communication with the people in their lives or they have no communication with them at all - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Robert: It is a great policy to do that - but there are places where private data does exist on computers. Where do you put your accounting data or stuff like that? - Kevin Costain

Christopher: the more people understand that the better off we'll all be. - Robert Scoble

The fact that you survived is not equal to the idea that privacy is dead. Privacy is just a little more subtle now. More public signaling channels are available. - Cliff Gerrish

Kevin: and how many "private" Twitter documents leaked onto Techcrunch. You can never assume total privacy. - Robert Scoble

Marshall: give me a break. Most of us don't care about privacy. - Robert Scoble

Robert, you aren't a woman who escaped an abusive relationship who wants to communicate securely and privately with an online support network. there are power issues at play, your drunk pics totally different - Marshall Kirkpatrick

The only rub to this is that soon companies will force information out of you, because they only do business online, and they're the only option. - Christopher Galtenberg

Robert, you have little credibility about privacy due to your hyperbole, and your vested interest in no privacy. - Tinfoil 2.0

I like keeping my bank account info private..that privacy is not dead yet. - Jim Posner

Marshall: most of the women I know who were abused were abused by people they knew in real life. - Robert Scoble

Robert: those twitter docs were probably intended to be private - but at the smae time twitters internal financials weren't what was leaked. - Kevin Costain

Jim: http://blippy.com - Robert Scoble

totally, and then they want to communicate free of scrutiny from abusers, what's your point? - Marshall Kirkpatrick

Kevin: other companies have had their internal financials leaked. - Robert Scoble

Bippy is opt-in - Jim Posner

Kevin: and go with Zappos. They put their internal financials up on a white board in their lobby for everyone to see. - Robert Scoble

Jim: yes. And so is Facebook. - Robert Scoble

Blippy reminds me of paintings in the renaissance -- people had painters include the expensive items they could afford in their portraits. Another form of social signaling. - Cliff Gerrish

Jim: so is turning on a computer. - Robert Scoble

Hey, Robert, side note, do you agree with Gruber that Gizmodo should be prosecuted? Just curious. I don't know how I feel about it - Stephen Pickering

Robert: Expectation of privacy is one thing.. and I agree that we cannot have an expectation. But, the other important thing is there is also data intended to be private. - Kevin Costain

Agree..I still think there is privacy. email is still private..your salary is still private - Jim Posner

Stephen: I wouldn't mind if Gizmodo were prosecuted. They received stolen property and profited off of it. - Robert Scoble

When you type your pin in an atm (and that may be the only place you expose it electronically), should you have a reasonable expectation that that info will stay private? - Kevin Costain

Apparently it's some kind of utopia when everything that individuals do is fully transparent, but governments and corporations are increasingly non-transparent? Wow. - Tinfoil 2.0

Jim: my salary has been discussed on the Internet, actually. - Robert Scoble

Well, LogEx, you know the Golden Rule: He who has the Gold Rules! - Stephen Pickering

Jim: it wasn't quite an accurate number, but that's cause a lot of my compensation is bonuses. - Robert Scoble

...last week, Jerry Jones, owner of the Dallas Cowboys, was videotaped (camphone-taped) in a bar, having a "private" conversation where he made scathing remarks about a former head coach and some NFL draft prospects. the video ended up on YouTube and become a lead story on ESPN. I suppose the only place to expect privacy is inside your own home - .LAG liked that

LAG: I don't expect privacy in my own home, either. - Robert Scoble

...we have to draw the line somewhere, no? - .LAG liked that

Privacy is what other people agree not to pass on. - Cliff Gerrish

LAG: I do what I can to keep you from filming a sex video of me, but I'm sure sometime something will get out that I didn't expect to get out. - Robert Scoble

Robert-There is alot of confidential information on computers that is private...IPSEC - Jim Posner

Cliff: exactly. - Robert Scoble

we all live in glass houses then - .LAG liked that

Jim: yes. And a lot of that data leaks. Microsoft's emails, for instance. - Robert Scoble

LAG: if you live your life like that then you'll never have any problems. :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert: Should someone who wants to be private, be given it? Is it at least a basic human right? - Kevin Costain

agreed - .LAG liked that

by the way, if you have a sex video, you can see it on an Android, but not an iPhone - Tim Jones

I agree with your assumption though..all data should be expected to become public and treated as such - Jim Posner

Kevin: no. Just ask Bernie Ward. He was arrested for distributing child pornography. - Robert Scoble

Hey can I ask you guys a question? The other day Sarah Lane posted a question on Twitter. I copied and pasted it to Leo's chat room without saying it was from her because I was being lazy, and they tore me too pieces that I didn't "credit" her and even when I tried to explain the admin called me "Scum" trying to mine "his" chat room so that I could take credit. Was I in the wrong that bad to be called "Scum"? - Stephen Pickering

Tim: Steve Jobs is lying about that. My iPhone gets porn just fine. - Robert Scoble

Stephen: you should see what I'm called on YouTube. - Robert Scoble

darn, you Mr Scoble - Tim Jones

Hehehehehe, it just got to me when I tried to explain to "Dan" over their that I was going to tell her I got the answer from them, and he was like "Sure, you Scum" I was like "Whoa" - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: I'm not sure. Sometimes online communities turn very mean and attack wrongly. - Robert Scoble

Robert: You do make good points. It could be considered the best way to live and stay honest if you expect eveverything to be public at some point.. - Kevin Costain

so the Privacy Settings on FB are essentially useless - .LAG liked that

IC, ok, thanks. - Stephen Pickering

Kevin: that won't stop me from getting drunk in London and wearing a pink wig again. :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert, that's really sad that you don't trust your family enough that "I don't expect privacy in my own home" - Tinfoil 2.0

Robert: lol.. I'm sure all that Tequila I drank in Venezuela will come back to haunt me one day too.. - Kevin Costain

LogEx: who said it would be my family? I might leave a microphone open. And if I send child porn I won't have any privacy. - Robert Scoble

Kevin: can you click like on the brand of Tequila? :-) - Robert Scoble

Conflating consequences of criminal actions with the loss of people's fundamental human right to privacy isn't very helpful. - Tinfoil 2.0

Allright, great show, overall I am very excited about what's happening. I don't know how I got to arguing about Privacy. I guess I playing devils advocate. But its all good. See you guys later. Thanks for the chat!!!!!! - Stephen Pickering

LogEx: also if you can see into your house from a public street, as you can see into mine, you have no privacy by law unless you close the window blinds. - Robert Scoble

...privacy concerns aside, the LIKE button everywhere is going to be HUGE - .LAG liked that

Robert: I don't think you can - Tequila is not a brand - El Jimador, that's a brand.. or the Agua Dente.. that stuff was harsh.. - Kevin Costain

LogEx: sorry, there is no privacy if you are doing something on the Internet. That's my whole point. - Robert Scoble

But.. I have to run a ravage a couple Citrix servers.. the work never ends.. sorry I missed the show.. - Kevin Costain

...well, i think that "closing the blinds" kind of privacy is what some people are expecting with their data - .LAG liked that

LogEx: you can have some expectation of privacy, yes, but I find that that expectation changes overtime. I'm sure the child pornographer expects privacy too. - Robert Scoble

...but you make a good point Scoble: if you're on the Net, there are no blinds... and there is no spoon - .LAG liked that

LAG: Microsoft execs had ALL their email put into public. Even ones that didn't break the law. - Robert Scoble

LAG: and I'm sure they had an expectation of privacy. (Not any longer). - Robert Scoble

mortifying - .LAG liked that

LAG: this is why I say Privacy is Dead. It's easier than to try to figure out when things will really be private and when they won't. - Robert Scoble

LAG: talk to a teenager sometime. You'll learn a whole new language about privacy. They've figured out how to live in public and still have privacy. - Robert Scoble

LAG: for instance, maybe if we want to be private here we'll make up a secret language that only me and you can understand. - Robert Scoble

I'm not really Tim..I'm a one legged dog that goes by the name...Lucky - Tim Jones

...they created whole new language - .LAG liked that

LAG: PGP does that too. Want my key? :-) - Robert Scoble

Tim: we're all dogs on the Internet. :-) - Robert Scoble

...I guess there's opportunities for cryptographic software makers - .LAG liked that

LAG: yes, there is. The question is do enough people really care about privacy? Marshall does not a market make. ;-) - Robert Scoble

...the whole PGP-key sharing thing, it's too geeky... will never work in a mass market product - .LAG liked that

...my 72-yr-old mom won't know what to do with that - .LAG liked that

LAG: I know one company building it into their social network. - Robert Scoble

...but she's expect that her emails are private - .LAG liked that

if they can make encryption brain-dead simple, it will catch on - .LAG liked that

...then you could have some of the privacy people seem to want - .LAG liked that

...oh crap! this conversation's been gr8... I'm late for a meeting! thanks for the insights Robert....l8r! - .LAG liked that

LAG: she can live with that idea. But wait until she leaves her laptop signed in somewhere and her grandaugther gets a look. - Robert Scoble

Anyway, gotta run. - Robert Scoble

Hey is Robert still here? I meant to ask him what he's going to be doing in Israel, if he can make it - Stephen Pickering

apparently, even smoke signals had distinctive signatures of their sender. Running Wolf's smokes were a bit puffier compared to Screaming Eagle - Tim Jones

Robert, still there? - Stephen Pickering

Allright, I'll find out in good time :-) Just curious - Stephen Pickering

all the time - rose-angela

Steve Gillmor to Steve's feed, RealTime Network

Gillmor Gang, Live Recording Session at 1:00PM PT. Participate at http://www.building43.com/realtim...

April 9, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

rose-angela, Denise Howell, Sanjay Singh and 3 other people liked this

I'm now standing by, ready to talk about iPads iPads iPads iPads. :-) - Robert Scoble

154 more comments

So am I.. :) - Kevin Costain

I wonder if you'll talk about the recent Apple changes for developers? - http://theflashblog.com/... - that's some crazy stuff.. - Kevin Costain

iPhone OS 4 not iPads please! - Alex de Soto

Alex: is there a difference? :-) Kevin: of course we'll talk about that. - Robert Scoble

I'm just jealous. Don't have an iPad but I do have a 3GS phone. :( - Alex de Soto

My iPad should be here in Toronto in a few days.. :) - Kevin Costain

Well, why not talk about how Apple mindfucks people into accepting ads as OS features? ;) - Jorge Valentín

Jorge: I thought that was what Google does - Apple just makes you pay for it.. :) - Kevin Costain

Don't get me wrong, am all for devs getting revenue from whenever they can to leave their software free... I'm just saying its ironical that they introduce them as an "OS enhacement". - Jorge Valentín

Jorge, it was a developer event. iAds is a developer feature. I dont understand the problem. - Jamie

check this response from Adobe: http://theflashblog.com/... - Jamie

http://www.blendtec.com/willitb... - Alex de Soto

What app was that? - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Robert: I guess you gave the second iPad to him :) - Kevin Costain

AP does a great job on the Nintendo wii. - Alex de Soto

Alex: That iPad blend was amazing... great stuff!! - Kevin Costain

Steve shaved and got a haircut for his enterprise job on Monday! - Francine Hardaway

yes, congrats to Steve on the new gig! - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I had the same glitch with the WSJ app - Francine Hardaway

congrats Steve! please keep the Gang going! - Marshall Kirkpatrick

I wonder if anyone has done a review of the iPad WITHOUT paid apps? How useful is it without any apps or paying for more apps? I recall seeing on Techcrunch that 28% (?) of the apps in the store are free.. not many really.. - Kevin Costain

I have paid more for iPad apps than I ever paid for iPhone apps - Francine Hardaway

Hey Steve, congrats on your new role at Salesforce - Mike Doeff

This is where I came in -- track - Francine Hardaway

Still miss track - Mike Doeff

yea, track was what kept me at twitter once the "oh cool" phase wore off - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

how useful is any computer without apps? not very - Jamie

Lots of Big co's now like Open source - Kevin Marks

congrats to Blaine on landing at Ribbit - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

An iPad with no apps is a really nice web browser... you can then run web apps, and read ePub books - Kevin Marks

What about the IBM/TurboHercules patent mess? I'm hoping that's where we are going.... - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Oracle's "true" colors will be how deeply they bury MySQL - it's not Open Source if you can't get to the source - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Jamie: I agree that apps are what make the platform what troubles me is that I'm seeing lots of people who bought iPads dumping alot of cash on paid apps. Most platforms are incredibly valuable because of what you can do out-of-the-box (or as free updates or installed apps).. - Kevin Costain

Steve re that you have to read adobe's response to that change in the developer agreement: http://theflashblog.com/... - Jamie

iPad is a Consumer device - capital C consumer where as Apple will do as much value-add as they can to continue the cash flow after the initial purchase. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Right. No reason to write native apps anymore. Except they are still making money - Francine Hardaway

Blaine: except that a web app that isn't Apple's (which has access to hidden API's) cannot have notifications, background updates, location services, and so on - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Safari does have access to location services - Jamie

Tight integration seems to be winning across the board. Web apps don't have that yet. - Cliff Gerrish

Doesn't Apples move actually encourage HTML5 app development? - Cliff Gerrish

Cliff: I think you're right - either that or a move away from developing for the platform itself.. - Kevin Costain

Kevin C. - As long as there's money to be made in the ecosystem, devs won't move from it. - Cliff Gerrish

In some ways Apple, Google and Microsoft are just making app devs choose which mobile platform to focus on - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

But, is whomever that posted this (http://theflashblog.com/...) correct in saying that Apple's intention to "kill" the Flash platform? - Kevin Costain

yes bear, so we need to extend html5 to add more native support - Kevin Marks

PhoneGap is still a valid approach for cross-platform development. It won't work for games or heavy-duty processing, but you can do a lot of simple stuff that way. - Matt M (inactive)

My mistake - I didn't see that it was Lee Brimelow that posted that.. - Kevin Costain

... and it's still officially sanctioned by apple - Matt M (inactive)

KevinM - yep exactly - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Robert is right - Jamie

native apps still perform stronger than anything i'm seeing in HTML5 too - Marshall Kirkpatrick

But those apps could have been done without needing to fully know Obj C last week. I could have wrote something in many other languages....that's the argument. It has nothing to do with the end user, it has to do with developers and easier cross-platform dev. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Both Google and Apple can push HTML5 forward via WebKit. It seems like MSFT is on board too. - Cliff Gerrish

for now. Marshall - Francine Hardaway

Remember that closed is also "family-friendly." Even though a smart kid can get smut from the open Web. - Alex de Soto

GillmorGang Recording Session w/ Blaine Cook, Kevin Marks, Doc Searls, Scoble now at: http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish

PhoneGap is sanctioned. They went through this a few months ago and worked with Apple to come up with something that would work for Apple and PhoneGap. - Matt M (inactive)

0y. 6 months to obsolescence - Francine Hardaway

There is no market outside of the iPad market -- it's still in the process of being created. - Cliff Gerrish

cliff right - Robert Scoble

What Doc is saying is the one thing that is making me give a "pass" to Apple for the moment since soon Android tablets will be available - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

My attention to Buzz lasted about three weeks - Mike Doeff

But there is no Android phone or tablet without the work that Apple has done. - Cliff Gerrish

News on the possible RIM tablet.. http://bit.ly/9TFfqq - Kevin Costain

Cliff - HTC has shown they have the same level of "wow" hardware design skills as Apple IMO - so i'm hoping they will do something - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, they seem to have 'fast follower' skills -- not original design/market making skills. - Cliff Gerrish

Cliff: what is good about iPad is only 20% hardware, though. - Robert Scoble

@Cliff - I disagree on that. If not Apple, the CrunchPad would have sparked the movement. Not saying the Joo Joo is great but the CrunchPad sparked lot's of early interest. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Cliff: for those of us with normal household budgets, fast follower is good enough :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Robert: It's the whole ecosystem. Apple's been preparing it for 10 years. - Cliff Gerrish

Apple's ecosystem can only be challenged by a user/consumer backlash. As long as this sells, it won't be moved from the top spot.. - Kevin Costain

Mark: the CrunchPad got my interest because Mike was aiming for $300, not $500, and the slate idea is something that catches our interest. Apple has satisfied that interest and now other players will have a tough time to get going. - Robert Scoble

Open messaging protocols seem to be fundamentally different that "open" computing platforms. - Cliff Gerrish

Kevin: and the users are NOT revolting. If anything they are becoming more evangelistic about Apple products. - Robert Scoble

Bambi vs. Godzilla: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Cliff Gerrish

Robert: From all indications I see - your right. I often hear about the iPhone killer (Blackberry Storm) or no the iPad killer (JooJoo or HP slate). I can't how anything but the consumer could be an iPhone or iPad killer.. and they are clearly enthralled with apple right now.. - Kevin Costain

We always checked into panels at SXSW. That was almost virtual - Francine Hardaway

hmm, I should go talk to some of my Comcast friends about their tv checkin idea - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Francine: exactly. I checked into a revolving door party too. :-) - Robert Scoble

bear get them to look at the netflix activity stream - Kevin Marks

1bn impressions - Jamie

its entirely at the developers discretion - Jamie

and a way for them to subsidise development. - Jamie

Free apps in exchange for watching ads. It's television. - Cliff Gerrish

But, should the check-in be equated to something we actually do in the real world? I almost feel like a new expression is just being created for us. We already express ourselves in the short-form (Twiller), and in the longer form (Blogger) or storytelling (books). Where do we do check-in in real life (except for a hotel)? - Kevin Costain

Yep. I also use Foursquare and don't know why. But, Doc, I am the Mayor of 33 places:-) - Francine Hardaway

KevinM: that was one of the techs on my short list - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

hashtags are the virtual checkins we actually use - Kevin Marks

I managed to be the mayor of one place myself. I would love to know why (other than checking in there.. lol) - Kevin Costain

Look at the iPad Placement in Modern Family. Brilliant and so natural - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: You thought that was natural? Wow. - Kevin Costain

Can't wait to see a Lady Gaga anti-litter campaign. - Alex de Soto

The Truman Show lives. - Cliff Gerrish

Kevin, Yeah, because don't you think there were hundreds of thousands of Guys out there who were really like that guy? I was! - Stephen Pickering

If a product is really part of the culture, why shoudln't it be a natural part of the story? - Stephen Pickering

it helps developers make money. developers stay on the app store. apple wins. - Jamie

Stephen: True, i'm one of those guys. But, what was not natural was how forced the storyline was in that show. And doesn't Steve Jobs partly own the parent company of the show. Eeesh, just a but funky I'd say.. - Kevin Costain

Apple is selling a lifestyle and the tools to get there - just like fashion magazines and clothing companies have been doing for decades. They are just one of the first tech companies to make a successful transition to consumer space - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Perhaps I think a bit too critically about that - but while I was watching the show - it felt wrong, wrong, wrong. I can understand not everyone felt that way. - Kevin Costain

Kevin, didn't feel forced to me. I enjoyed it, but we can agree to disagree. Yes, I realized Disney owns ABC, but what I find interesting is that there are a lot of Macs in that show, but the Apple Logo is covered by a sticker on all of them at least in the older epidsodes. I wondered why - Stephen Pickering

The page turn on the iPad is beautiful.. I love the look of that.. - Kevin Costain

Every day I enjoy and more amazed by my iPad. Last night I watched a movie on the wicked netflix app and I can just carry that movie with me wherever I go - Stephen Pickering

http://romeda.org/rePublish is Blaine's ebook reader - Kevin Marks

the #qanda hashtag works that way in Australia. Its a weekly TV ABC show where a panel of politicians and other people take questions. The Twitter stream is becoming integral, democratizing - Hilary Talbot

We are the world's biggest consumers! The iPad fits the culture perfectly. - Alex de Soto

But, Stephen, you (and any other viewer of the show) are the indicator for whether or not they went too far. The rating will always reflect that. The question is, though, do you think that show helped sell iPads? If we are to think of the show as an advertisement. - Kevin Costain

Hilary - I often bring up Twitter now when I'm watching the rare live TV show (most of my TV consumption is time-shifted now) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

really blaine? - Jamie

Yes, I do a bit with other shows, too, bear. The interesting thing about Q and A is that the ABC knows its happening and plays to it as well. - Hilary Talbot

What Blaine is talking about was demoed (IIRC) at Xerox Parc in the 70's -- the system followed you from room to room and any computer you were next to became your workspace - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

All of the other tablet devices are inferior in the number of things they leave out. Simplicity rules. - Cliff Gerrish

Kevin, oh yeah, I think it did. When I saw him blow those "virtual" candles out with his real breath, that pushed me over the edge. - Stephen Pickering

scoble ftw - Jamie

Hilary - oh snap - I didn't realize it enabled a tighter feedback loop - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

haha.. dont let them pick on you Scoble! - Kevin Costain

User Experience is the Killer app, that's what drives popularity which then leads to a platform ecosystem - Stephen Pickering

You're right Robert, the user experience is incredible. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

I've heard this argument before. - Robert Scoble

Stephen: I thought the timing was a bit off - but that was pretty cool.. :) - Kevin Costain

yea, I wonder why more folks are not calling "follower foul" on Apple for bringing in some of the Nexus One features - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Moore's Law and Battery Life are on a collision course. - Cliff Gerrish

THe thing is, any of these companies could build a similar device, but they don't. It's like they are blindsided - Stephen Pickering

we heard the argument just 3 years ago. the iphone doesnt do this, it doesnt do that. - Jamie

The phone wars are over. The pad is the next battle ground - Stephen Pickering

Yes, very much, Bear, And the q's are kind of off-the-cuff , so you see a different side of the panelists. - Hilary Talbot

And nothing does ALL of this/that together.. really a glowing rock with 11 hours of battery life would sell.. :) - Kevin Costain

What else compares to that? No PC of any sort.. - Kevin Costain

Hilary - ah, I can see how not having a prepared script will cause them to react in a more organic/normal way to questions - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I switched from my Blackberry to Andriod for the touch interface.. the Storm doesn't do it for me either.. I'm still using the G1 (for now).. - Kevin Costain

This is a marriage of the Analog and Digital world. - Stephen Pickering

The only thing I see about the iPad that causes me to not immediately buy one is just that my $dayjob requires me to have more than one application's window active as I do research or fix issues. I would need 2 or 3 iPads *and* have them be able to share data - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

It took me about a week to totally get used to the iPad. And when the new OS comes out it will be even better. - Francine Hardaway

Stephen - GUI + NUI (Natural User Interface) - Cliff Gerrish

Cliff, ah yes, I like that, NUI - Stephen Pickering

I have carried nothing but the iPad all week. I do have a problem with productivity apps and attachments. I presume OS 4.0 will fix that - Francine Hardaway

An interesting perspective on how the iPhone was a training tool for a new era of iPads. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

the iPhone was also a proving ground for small UI's and if the user would accept a single task oriented consumer device - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Viewing the twitter stream by touch gesture is incredible, I must say. It's a much more natural way of travelling through the stream - Kevin Costain

Does it have a mike and camera? - Alex de Soto

Where's Dave Winer????? - Francine Hardaway

yeah get dave in the picture - Jamie

Don't be so sure he doesn't want to be on - Francine Hardaway

Get Dave on! - Mike Doeff

Holy crap, a true kick-ass conversation on FF <sniff> This is beautiful man </sniff> - Dave Hodson

so is the Chirp conference just a "make them feel good" while they sharpen they knife? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Liked Ben Long's naysayer about iPad. Exactly my experience. Amazed the way all you guys have drunk the kool-aid. - Jefferson Berlin

Loic didn't seem happy - Stephen Pickering

This is what Calacanis warned of though - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: especially since they announced the "Official" BlackBerry app - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Loic has said Seesmic is about helping you connect with your brand, not about Twitter - Francine Hardaway

Yeah, he didn't like "official" - Stephen Pickering

Yes! Congrats Steve! - Kevin Costain

a great show Steve! - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

cool, Scoble's playing Geometry Wars. - Vezquex

The 4/9 ep is on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - beersage

SharedTunes

SXSW 2010 Preview - http://www.npr.org/allsong...

March 9, 2010 from NPR: All Songs Considered... - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Doeff liked this

SharedTunes

Broken Bells Chat - http://www.npr.org/allsong...

March 9, 2010 from NPR: All Songs Considered... - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Doeff liked this

Steve Gillmor to Steve's feed, RealTime Network

Gillmor Gang, Live Recording Session at 1PM PT (this thread for chat) at http://www.building43.com/realtim...

February 19, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

Roberto Bonini, Karoli, Mike Doeff and Cliff Gerrish liked this

who's on today? - dlature

154 more comments

Looks like we might be getting started a little early today. - Cliff Gerrish

Gillmor Gang Live Recording Session w/ Dan Farber, Laura Fitton, Andrew Keen, Kevin Marks - http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish

Hello, Laura! - Rob La Gesse

starting on an od time - i about didnt catch the beginning.\ - Chris Jackson

@cliff you forgot Scoble. :) - Kevin Costain

watching Gillmor Gang -- hi @Pistachio! http://www.building43.com/realtim... - Karoli

Oh, and Scoble (on his way to Second Life) making a cameo... - Cliff Gerrish

you cant not join it. I just tried with a dummy account. - Jamie

So... starting in 10 minutes? - Ken Sheppardson

@Ken, they're already on.. - Kevin Costain

When did it actually start? I've got 12:53 - Ken Sheppardson

@Ken, I had 12:48 when they started.. - Kevin Costain

about 47 past - Jamie

Andrew's probably still on Compuserve - Ken Sheppardson

Andrew hasn't heard of the new invention called the printing press.. :) - Kevin Costain

Oh boy, grumpy.. lol - Kevin Costain

Movable type rules! - Cliff Gerrish

@kshep -- LOL...that's brutal. - Karoli

"In general, we try not to pay too much attention to competitors, we try to listen to users." -- Todd Jackson, Product Manager for Google Buzz at the launch announcement - Ken Sheppardson

I think they just "try not to pay too much attention..." - Cliff Gerrish

It's interesting to see that Google is being sued for releasing a product that wasn't completely perfect or secure. http://mashable.com/2010... - Kevin Costain

Yeah, seeing what Google was able to come up with given Facebook and FriendFeed to embrace and extend... my money's on Facebook now. - Ken Sheppardson

"...listen to users" — oh, like how a short track speed skater looks to the crowd so he knows when to make his move. - Micah

The paint is though - no-one HAD to use buzz, all users had the option NOT to use it from the beginning. - Kevin Costain

I like Andrew's comment about Robert, "He is the list" - r Macdonald

not true kevin - Jamie

google wave needs a better interface. - Karoli

hey there. Buzz off? - Aron Michalski

ive just tested what happens when you click NO... buzz is still there...with an unread count. - Jamie

Writely - Ken Sheppardson

JotSpot became Google Sites - Mike Doeff

etherpad? - Jamie

Paul Buccheit seems to do a good job of creating companies that can be purchased by Google without to much rewriting. - Cliff Gerrish

Writely became part of Docs, JotSpot became part of Sites, they bought Etherpad shortly after the Wave launch... - Ken Sheppardson

@Jamie - I recall the first screen that was presented gave the options to say "No Thanks".. or something to that effect.. - Kevin Costain

Cliff, looks like Google was a bit slow about the FF acquisition...LOL. - Karoli

Kevin: Initially, the first screen you were presented with was "Do you want to learn more?" and you were enrolled whether you said yes or no. - Ken Sheppardson

Apparently Realtime happens in the future... or starts earlier than than live. - Aron Michalski

Karoli, they got it -- they're just having trouble integrating all the features. - Cliff Gerrish

Aron, we started a little early today. - Cliff Gerrish

Yeah, Laura actually works ;-/ - Ken Sheppardson

kevin, I just tested the initial run on an account I have not used since buzz launched. the option is "no... take me to my inbox, ill check buzz later" - Jamie

yet buzz is there in the sidebar with 11 unread buzzes - Jamie

Here's the screen.. http://images.pcworld.com/news... - Kevin Costain

I havent followed anyone or even clicked on the icon - Jamie

@jamie.. interesting.. buzz is still there regardless.. I wonder if you're still forced into following as well in that case? - Kevin Costain

yes jamie, exactly - though you won't have a public profile until you make one, at whcih point the following will show - Kevin Marks

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2802... - thats what it shows you. - Jamie

They *really* need to accelerate the API, so somebody can add a usable client on top, or better yet just drop FriendFeed's UI onto a Buzz back end. - Ken Sheppardson

No, he's pushing RSS, Kevin. Using Atom is as bad as not using feeds, in his humble opinion. - Ken Sheppardson

Somebody wake up Dan - Ken Sheppardson

So I have 11 new buzzes from a frequently emailed contact. It is *still* auto following contacts. I thought they changed this. - Jamie

Dave backed Atom in his own tool recently, but is allergic to standards that come from public discussion apparently - Kevin Marks

no Jamie, they still auto-follow, they don't auto-publish - Kevin Marks

thats insane - Jamie

I changed my chat prefs so that I wasn't autofollowed a couple of years ago...seems to have carried to Buzz. - Karoli

whats wrong with pulling my most frequently emailed contacts and presenting them to me with a checklist. - Jamie

Steve is the first person I've heard mention the iPad in about a week. - Darren

No, Kevin, it seems that it's not possible for Google to contribute to public standards, per his criticism of Brad and Brett... anybody doing work for them is apparently some variation on a corporate shill. I've yet to hear whether Messina and Smarr's work is grandfathered in somehow... - Ken Sheppardson

Ken, corporate shill? I thought it was Stalinist. - Karoli

"lack of Flash" is a misdirect. - Aron Michalski

Karoli: Same thing ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

Now now, let's not go back that, you two. - Louis Gray

You get that job at Google yet, Louis? - Ken Sheppardson

Ken, Google has and does contribute to open standards development. - Darren

<rolls eyes at Ken> - Louis Gray

;-) - Ken Sheppardson

iPad: It's a good way to get the fanboys to buy the second one if you include the missing hardware. - Aron Michalski

There are 3-4 @google.com contributors to OAuth 1.0a by itself. - Darren

Agree with Ken 300% on expediting API. I've got my first userscript out for Buzz http://wittman.org/project... , but it only works on Firefox (not Chrome! I have to scrape html to get the profile image url with GM_xmlhttpRequest for crying out loud). http://www.google.com/buzz... - Micah

And Apple has contributed Webkit to the 'open' movement... - Cliff Gerrish

Darren: I know... sorry... I was being facetious... inside joke... - Ken Sheppardson

I have to laugh when folks were killing Apple for pushing the web apps stance on the iPhone launch. Same guys now talking about platform lock in. - Jamie

heard the call beeps, reached for my phone. I must be well-conditioned - Karoli

Does anyone not think Twitter has peaked? - Ken Sheppardson

iPad is post-PC -- it's not a tablet version of a PC operating system. - Cliff Gerrish

the worldwide numbers show that Twitter is still growing. - Jamie

I think Steve is spot on, regarding iPad inspiring universal webkit developments - r Macdonald

What has Winer been saying about Louis Gray's observations? - Stephen Pickering

Webkit will be the defacto standard that forces HTML5. - Cliff Gerrish

a monitor doesnt have the immediacy of an iPad - Jamie

Yes, Cliff. Its all about HTML5 - r Macdonald

Stephen "This guy would have done really well in Stalinist Russia, writing propoganda for the commisars." - Ken Sheppardson

intimacy* - Jamie

..."Stalin used to send dissenters to insane asylums because obviously you would have to be insane not to love Stalin." - Ken Sheppardson

I am late, have people been talking about Dave Winer on the Gang? - David Lloyd

He said that about Louis? - Stephen Pickering

of course David. - Jamie

Yeah, Stephen, in response to Louis' blog post about Buzz and privacy - Ken Sheppardson

He took ashot at Loius Grey yes - David Lloyd

that Wired demo was what i was talking about - not sure how practical producing that regualrly is - Kevin Marks

Ah, IC - Stephen Pickering

I bet that Demo from Wires costs more to make than is recouped - David Lloyd

im sure the CMS and templates will do 90% of the work. - Jamie

and its Conde Nast. They can use the same app template for every magazine. - Jamie

Ok, Laura won't buy an iPad...she's too busy.. next topic - Ken Sheppardson

Some of us actually do sit on the couch - Mike Doeff

@Laura, its what you use when you're on the toilet! - Kevin Costain

not everyone is running a startup. I come home from work and I am in the living room consuming content on the TV and my laptop. - Jamie

Regarding tech-sector promises of 15 years ago, "convergence" is something we are likely see actualized in the next few years through iPad developments, HTML5 elaboration and utilization of emerging Semantic Web. - r Macdonald

Jamie:I'm sure plenty of people who run startups will be buying iPads - Ken Sheppardson

that too Ken. - Jamie

Has Laura ever used a Kindle? - Ken Sheppardson

I can picture myself balancing the iPad on my lap while I type - Jamie

Laptops are the new desktops, iPads are the new lap tops. - Cliff Gerrish

It drives me nuts to cook and have to read the recipe on my iPhone. I'd use the iPad just for that. - Karoli

Are magazines one or two handed "devices"? - Ken Sheppardson

Cliff you have to tweet that so I can retweet it - Jamie

The iPad is my Grama's new TV, same size, just thinner.. :) - Kevin Costain

Who would ever use a book or magazine? You can't, when you have a kid on your arm... who ever has time to read? - Ken Sheppardson

Jaime, all my FF entries are tweeted. - Cliff Gerrish

I hate to say it... the addition of @pistachio today makes me want to tune out... how about more @parislemon instead. - andrew

Is is a matter of scale, myopia or an actual different experience? - Aron Michalski

You guys need to talk about Pip.io! - Leo

andrew, @pistachio makes me want to listen closer, so we cancel each other out. - Karoli

I think longterm iPhone OS is the new Mac... as far as Apple are concerned. - Jamie

It's like the Ken Olson quote, ""There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home"... he really said it (in '77) but what he meant by "computer" is different than what we mean. It keeps evolving. - Ken Sheppardson

its entirely conceivable that the iPhone OS install base will be 10x the Mac base in 2 or 3 years. - Jamie

So in other words you suckers buying version 1 will be screwed when version 2 comes out 6 months layter with a camera - David Lloyd

I'll buy it and give this version to my mother @ david. not a big deal. - Jamie

Seriously, has Laura never held a book? - Ken Sheppardson

Laura needs a macbook wheel.. lol... - Kevin Costain

@David version 1 suckers are who pay for version 2 aren't they? - Kevin Costain

....and reading books - Jamie

So people no longer read because they have to talk to their kids? - Ken Sheppardson

maybe we should eschew multitasking. :) - Karoli

Augmented Reality! project an image of a book OVER the heads of your kids using the iPad! - Kevin Costain

so Steve, what do you think of Windows Phone. - Jamie

Fast switching over single threads is what humans do. Computers can do parallel processing. People can't. - Cliff Gerrish

there is a tool to export your Address Book to Google Contacts... or you can switch on syncing between the two in preferences - Jamie

The curious thing that many haven't seem to mentioned about the iPad is that is a great device for closing the digital divide - with relatively low entry cost, and built in connectivity. I agree ... it is a great device for all of us. Bye Laura (ugh. one last snark from her wiseness) - andrew

bye all....enjoyed the show as always. - Karoli

YouTube is making money - Jamie

Why does Steve love the Nexus more than iPhone, yet excited about iPad, which is just a large iPhone. I don't get it. - Stephen Pickering

he's excited *because* its a large iphone - Jamie

Yes, but he thinks the Nexus One is much better, shouldn't he be more excited about a Google Pad? - Stephen Pickering

It's the intersection of the platforms that's interesting. - Cliff Gerrish

he doesn't think the Nexus One is much better. - Jamie

As a Fender Strat collector/player, I can tell you there's a non-trivial sized market for that Fender phone. - Ken Sheppardson

Yeah, he does, he raves about it, which I agree with, it is much better, that's why I can't understand the enthusiasm about the iPad platform - Stephen Pickering

Hey, Ken I have a Strat and a Tele - Stephen Pickering

he's said several times the app ecosystem is much better on the iPhone - Jamie

oh poo - I came home from errands exactly at the wrong time - the *end* of the show - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Nice show - thanks guys. And Laura :) - Rob La Gesse

Good Show, Just wish this was in podcast format so I could listen on my long commute. - John Wood

Thanks for another good show - r Macdonald

John - the audio only version is added to each show a few days later - just look at the "archives" section, top right of the page - Rob La Gesse

Stephen: Cool... I need to get into Teles one of these days... :-) - Ken Sheppardson

I thought you were getting into Tricasters, Ken... - Cliff Gerrish

Oddly, in my old(er) age I'm getting to appreciate a rack full of Strats more, Cliff :-) - Ken Sheppardson

Me, I've got a tele (with 3 pickups) - Cliff Gerrish

Ken, I agree. - Aron Michalski

Thanks Rob, do you know if there is a podcast feed, or do I just have to come to the page and download the audio? - John Wood

John - working on the iTunes/RSS feed. For now it is a manual process. - Rob La Gesse

Thanks for the info Rob :) - John Wood

Thomas Hawk

10 Ways FriendFeed is Better Than Google’s Buzz - http://thomashawk.com/2010...

February 13, 2010 from Thomas Hawk Digital Connection - Comment - Like - Share

Jeff P. Henderson, Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど, Chris Zlatis and 76 other people liked this

I've been using Google Buzz now for four days since it launched and wanted to take a minute to blog a post about 10 ways that I've found FriendFeed to be better than Google Buzz. - Thomas Hawk

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one other thing I've noticed is that items show up a lot faster here at FF than they do at Buzz. - Thomas Hawk

I fully expect Buzz to get faster. There's no shortage of Google engineers who understand scale. - Bruce Lewis

agreed Bruce, it's very early still for them. Apparently they are also doing something with something called PubSubHub or some such thing that is supposed to make things work faster as well. Maybe? At least that's what it sounded like when I listened in on TWIG this afternoon. - Thomas Hawk

but see this blog post of mine showed up here 47 minutes ago and it's still not on Buzz. Also FriendFeed has a way to manually force a refresh on any feed. Buzz can't do that yet. - Thomas Hawk

Sometimes it is taking up to 12 hours for tweets to appear on Buzz - it needs to find 'real time' ~ Friendfeed is much better, in many ways. - Chris Loft

#1, Best of day. :) - Thomas Hawk

There's an unofficial refresh for Buzz available here: https://sgapi-recrawl.appspot.com/ - Bruce Lewis

PubSubHubbub (aka PuSH) will help them notice updates faster for sites that implement it. Hopefully they'll also support SUP, FriendFeed's invention for the same purpose. SUP is easier to implement reliably. If you implement PuSH, you need a queue system for when the hub is unavailable. With SUP, the hub does the catching up when it comes back. - Bruce Lewis

wow Bruce. I just checked out sgapi. It says it's not available until Monday, but it seems like it totally is a way to manually refresh feeds in your Google Buzz. Thanks! How in the hell did you find out about that? - Thomas Hawk

DeWitt shared it with me. It certainly helped my testing. But I'll have to do without it until Monday. - Bruce Lewis

very cool! - Thomas Hawk

I'm a little bummed they turned it off, since I was eager to test a couple of things: http://friendfeed.com/brlewis... - Bruce Lewis

PuSH! That's way cooler than what I was calling it, PSHB. - Vezquex

Very good post, Thomas. However, I think Google Buzz will become more popular (or already is) than FriendFeed. I still hope Facebook won't give up FriendFeed. - Simon Cahuk

Simon I totally agree. Maybe Buzz will be a good wake up call for Facebook though. - Thomas Hawk

Here's one: Friendfeed just hides it, it doesn't make you wait through a show of fading out. - sergiooo

it's more friendly than Buzz or maybe we are used to it more than that. I myself believe that friendfeed is much better that Buzz. - Viva Vida

yay :) - sunipeyk

I hope Facebook is reading this and planning to make some steps forward :). Yes, Franz, FriendFeed is way better, I have some problems with scrolling through Buzz (in Chrome dev for Mac). I also suggest you to read Robert Scobler's post: http://scobleizer.com/2010... - Simon Cahuk

Afaik, Facebook said they do not develop FrF any further? - Адский Блондин

I was thinking: if Google copies FriendFeed with Buzz then FriendFeed isn't that bad, is it :) ? - Simon Cahuk

Berkus, any links about your statement? - Simon Cahuk

Mona Nomura

Hypothetical situation: an ex friends on you Facebook. Do you accept the request? HYPOTHETICAL cc @ozsultan @wrightak @nikimurata

February 7, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Mark Douglass, John Wang, Mike Doeff and Morton Fox liked this

Are those all your exes? - Louis Gray

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i never would, but that's just me. #AlwaysEndedBadly - Joe Silence

depends on why they're an EX friend, I have the same situation, he's still waiting on me to accept his request bout 2-3 months now - sofarsoShawn

this is what restricted lists are for. - Joe "Funkasaurus" Pierce

Agreeing with @sofarsoShawn -- it depends on the nature of the breakup and how long its been - Prolific Programmer

totally, my FB friend in waiting totally wants to do me, but I'm not interested at all, but not to burn any bridges - sofarsoShawn

Let's see, are they the type of person that stirs up trouble? Do you hypothetically have any hesitations on your own side of the equation? If the answer is a simple No and No, then No Problem. Otherwise, let the request sit there, right. - Micah

totally Micah - sofarsoShawn

I have two exs and four ex's family members on Facebook... #AWKWARD - Mona Nomura

Keeping in this tone, Mona, my younger sister's husband just filed for divorce, and she has a 10 week old baby (his too). Should I unfriend him? - Louis Gray

yes, and block, Mona too, that's what I did with my right wing family members, we just do NOT get along; rock out with your BLOCK OUT! - sofarsoShawn

I have a few ex's.Most are ok. With one I gave a limited profile view until we reach a next level - DC Crowley

Kevin Rose

@bizman562 give it 6 months, 3rd party apps will make it badass

January 28, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Doeff liked this

Have to agree. So many people trashing this device before we've seen what the developers will come up with. I'm reserving judgment. People freaked out about no copy/paste, no 3rd party app's, no GPS, slow 3G, etc. on the first iPhone but they eventually got there. So much for embracing iterative development. Would it be better if Apple shipped this thing in 2012 with all those features available??? - Mike Doeff

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If I can get a sim card and run it on my Sprint network, then I'm in. I've yet to see a device (iPhone included) that makes me want to switch carriers just to use it. - Fleagle

People trashed the iPhone for months before and just after the release too... look who's laughing now! - Kevin

Nonsense. The fact that it runs "apps" instead of "software" is the biggest deal-breaker of all. I want a general purpose system, not a friggin' peripheral. Apps are fine on a phone, but not on my primary computing device. - Otto

I do not think anyone ever said, nor would ever assume this would be a primary computing device. Like a netbook, but better. - Kevin

Huh? A netbook *is* a primary computing device. A netbook can run any program (not limited to an "app store"). A netbook doesn't "sync" to another system. Everybody was expecting the iPad to be equivalent to a netbook, which it is not. Not even close. The iPad is *less* capable than any other netbook ever created. - Otto

Point well taken! - Kevin

Scott Beale

Barack Obama Announces The iPad - http://laughingsquid.com/barack-...

January 28, 2010 from Laughing Squid - Comment - Like - Share

Trever Marshall and Mike Doeff liked this

Steve Gillmor to Steve's feed, RealTime Network

Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...

January 28, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

Susan Beebe, Micah, Roberto Bonini and 8 other people liked this

iPad, anyone? :) - Robert J Taylor

95 more comments

How'd they make it so cheap? - Vezquex

Typical of them to hold back multi-tasking until version 2 - beersage

GillmorGang Live with Nicholas Carr, Doc Searls, Kevin Marks and Scoble recording now: http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish

I finally can listen live!!!!! - Francine Hardaway

No one handed computing with the iPad. Kind of a big deal. I still want one though. - Mike Doeff

"human beings unfortunately only have two hands" hehe - Christopher Harris

On Gillmor Gang with @stevegillmor @dsearls @scobleizer @nickcarr talking iPad - Kevin Marks

Doesn't Safari (webkit) make the device both vertical and horizontal? - Cliff Gerrish

Given the traditional Apple Tax, I'm really looking forward to an equivalent Android device at at $200-300 price point by year end. - Ken Sheppardson

From your lips to God's ears, KShep. I think I might be tired of Apple. I just had to replace batteries in 2 Apple laptops this week. Very spending - Francine Hardaway

Hey Scoble, are you there? - Cliff Gerrish

Must be AT&T in LA.... - Robert J Taylor

kshep, why do think Android couldn't do this kind of thing first? Why do they always have to follow... - Cliff Gerrish

liner notes, ftw - Karoli

it's not just liner notes, it's a sense of tangible connection to the artist - Kevin Marks

And the connection is real time.. - Cliff Gerrish

If I didn't have a laptop in my living room, I'd buy one. And I may still some day, But I'm not going to be waiting in line. - Matt Terenzio

I just wrote a post about the iPad being the Web made physical: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2010... - Kevin Marks

I will probably buy the iPad - if it multi-tasked, def. would - Rob La Gesse

Will likely buy one, too - the $499 version -- def. not the AT&T one. Like the use of ePub for ebook format, especially - Robert J Taylor

the form factor is more interesting than the device. I think that Google will move quickly into this space. - Jim Posner

I'd need the AT&T to seal the deal, but I spend time in the suburbs and rural areas. - Matt Terenzio

Yes the SDK. So are the apps going to be different from the iPhone? - Francine Hardaway

It may actually cause wifi networks to formalize around the country. - Cliff Gerrish

Francine: will be a superset of iPhone SDK options/capabilities. - Robert J Taylor

I will buy it. I buy everything. Then I give it away to friends and family. That's how I stay poor - Francine Hardaway

Doc, I totally agree. that was what I had hoped for...that it was more of a device to produce content than to consume. - Karoli

Right. No camera. - Francine Hardaway

Francine, I'm a baeball fan and I love the idea of the MLB app with more screen real estate. I can track the game, watch replay videos, see in depth stats, and maybe even track tweets about the game on one screen. - Mike Doeff

Camera will be in V2 - Jim Posner

Even Tweetdeck would be better with more screen real estate, Mike:-) - Francine Hardaway

I think people will find unexpected ways to create "content" with this device. - Cliff Gerrish

How do you know, Jim - Francine Hardaway

Will be a great supplement to Broadcast TV. Play along with Jepoardy etc. - Matt Terenzio

SDK has a "take photo" option now - Jim Posner

no - sofarsoShawn

Oh yeah, I did read that - Francine Hardaway

Cliff, re why Android couldn't do this first... I think there's stuff in the pipe, ala the Dell Mini 5, other things we haven't seen, but until Apple puts their stamp on it and validates the form factor, no matter what options from MSI or Asus are out there, they'd just get dismissed out of hand. - Ken Sheppardson

I think it's an issue of integrated vs. modular production. No other company has all the threads under their control. - Cliff Gerrish

Remember, the iPad we saw yesterday is not the iPad that will ship. It only gets better from here. http://mickeleh.blogspot.com/2010... - Michael Markman

I am not sure about the mutltitasking..I heard yesterday that you could play music and watch photos at the same time. - Jim Posner

How will newspapers deal with the fact that they can't force animated ads down our throat? - Matt Terenzio

There are a few things that are allowed in background—like playing music, but it's not full-bore multi-tasking. - Michael Markman

People are going to blame websites that have flash for not making their sites work on the device of their choice (the iPhone or iPad), they aren't going to blame Adobe or Apple. - Mark Trapp

Jobs watched a slideshow with a soundtrack, and you can listen to the built in music player on the iPhone, right? But can you listen to Pandora while you work on email at the coffee shop? - Ken Sheppardson

Then again, re multitasking... I wonder how many iPad owners won't also own an iPhone? - Ken Sheppardson

Now they're switching to Chrome. - Ken Sheppardson

we don't want silverlight either . . . - Matt Terenzio

And Chrome just took me away from Building 43 to enter a comment on FF #fail - Francine Hardaway

Re integrated vs modular production... the alternative to the integrated Apple iPad experience will be a commodity Asus/HTC/MSI/Dell device running Android with Google controlling the experience. - Ken Sheppardson

Chrome is Google's attempt at integrated design and production. - Cliff Gerrish

I thought I'd get an applause on that one. . . - Matt Terenzio

flash parser in Javascript + SVG: http://paulirish.com/work... - Kevin Marks

What'll stop it is $499. It's unstoppable at $199. - Ken Sheppardson

I actually forgot the iPad was from Apple for an hour during the presentation. :-) - Jim Posner

worth pointing out that Steve has been right a zillion times over on the iPhone...just sayin'. - Karoli

Trouble streaming from Brasil...roadie bandwidth hogs probably. - Aron Michalski

Yesterday Leo Laporte said that you can fit it into your pocket if you have Captain Kangaroo pockets. Maybe this will start a new fashion trend. :) - Mike Doeff

So what do I get rid of? The Kindle? - Francine Hardaway

I'm keeping my Kindle and waiting for 2.0 on the iPad - Karoli

I'd be tempted to go back to an actual PHONE, ala some light little LG flip phone and carry an iPad-like device in my bag/car - Ken Sheppardson

@JimPosner LOL and +1 - Karoli

The eco system the iPad is going to create will alone make the device a success. All that screen real estate will take what were iPhone apps to an entirely new level. - Jerry Schuman

I already have an Air, an iPhone, and a Kindle. Not to mention a Mini, a MacBook, a Shuffle. I'm such a jerk. - Francine Hardaway

My 16-yo daughter loves her Nook, but she'd trade it for an iPad. - Karoli

Give me a flip phone with next generation T9/predictive texting and I'd dump the "smartphone"... if I had a 10" mid-size screen like this. Hm... - Ken Sheppardson

It's not a mobile device - Matt Terenzio

Oooh, KShep. That could be an answer. Then we can get rid of AT&T - Francine Hardaway

Except for reporters and academics etc. - Matt Terenzio

Dell Mini 5 + LG/Samsung flip phone - Ken Sheppardson

Yeah this is all about HOW successful it will be. In other words, will it change the world or just make them a ton of money? - Matt Terenzio

I've never experienced a problem with AT&T . They must be good in the NYC area or something - Matt Terenzio

Apple has indoctrinated millions into a new form of handheld interaction. You're fooling yourself if you don't think this is a major push forward by Apple for a first gen device and a new platform. - Jerry Schuman

It opens up the possibilities for the "Personal Area Network": basic phone that gives you connectivity/hotspot, then whatever size WiFi device is appropriate for your environment. - Ken Sheppardson

Matt, making a ton of money will be the first step to changing the world. - Karoli

Apple has a patent for a camera that is actually your screen. Wait for that in the next gen iPad for your forward facing camera. - Jerry Schuman

Karoli, I know that's why I've been trying to make a ton of money. ; ) I'm not just greedy. - Matt Terenzio

Meanwhile, you'll have a webcam that docks with with iPad that you clip to something in front of you within 60 days of the iPad launch. - Ken Sheppardson

Iphone tethered via bluetooth to be your camera for the iPad. - Jerry Schuman

iPad = an iPhone that goes to 11. - Mike Doeff

my stepfather would be a total iPad candidate. He's smart but not computer smart, very intuitive. - Karoli

Sounds a little Orwellian Jerry. Steve Jobs says, "C'mon Matt one more pushup. . ." - Matt Terenzio

Nobody is talking about instant on either.. huge factor for the iPad. Pull it out of your briefcase and you're off and running - Jerry Schuman

A revolution that only takes two releases is a pretty efficient revolution... - Cliff Gerrish

the iPad itself is not going to be the catalyst for the "next big thing" its the developer community that will do that. - Jerry Schuman

"Notebook maker MSI is ready to enter both the tablet and Android markets with a 10-inch touch tablet being readied for release late this year. The tablet will be based on the Nvidia Tegra processor and should hit the market for $500. The new tablet will run the Android OS and is reported to be “thin and light.” It would seem that the big iPad launch hasn’t killed the competition, at least not yet." -- http://jkontherun.com/2010... - Ken Sheppardson

focus on iWork was the part that least interested me personally, tho I understood it from a biz standpoint. - Karoli

Picture iMovie with a well executed touch screen interface for editing video - Mike Doeff

People are reading things into how much he sat. - Ken Sheppardson

It's a question of paternity, is the tablet the son of the iPhone or the Laptop? There's a big difference. - Cliff Gerrish

Mike, that sounds far more interesting than Keynote presentations. :) - Karoli

nice punch line, Steve. That's sort of game, set, match right there. LOL. - Karoli

Foursquare next gen app for iPad will support instant menus for restaurants upon checking in. - Jerry Schuman

I want to be able to work on my i-something. - Francine Hardaway

Karoli, yeah the Keynote stuff was underwhelming - Mike Doeff

Robert Scoble

Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. TALK HERE. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple. Apple....

January 27, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

michael carvell, Jim Willeke, Donat and 85 other people liked this

I'll be posting info here. - Robert Scoble

391 more comments

See, this is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about: http://friendfeed.com/otto42... :) - Otto

Al işte robert scoble da kopardı kayışı :) (çağdaş uğraşmıyorum sen tercüme ediver :P) - kaloglu[twitter]

please post to the iSlate Friendfeed Group http://friendfeed.com/islate-... - Hans Kainz

twitter is dragging big time now - Ryan

Yeah, Twitter is slow slow slow. - Robert Scoble

Robert..What benchmark do you use for best live coverage? - Jim Posner

hey scoble, long time no talk :). what do you all think abt steve announcing retirement today? - Robbie Trencheny

Cool! Any opinions on what's the best live stream to watch for coverage? - .LAG liked that

LAG: right here. I will post whenever someone has good live stuff. - Robert Scoble

Hey Robert - Keith Teare

Also: Oracle+Sun. - Bill Jackson

Right now Leo Laporte has best live stream - Robert Scoble

Shame we can't get recent comments at top - Keith Teare

@LAG http://live.gizmodo.com, http://live.twit.com, http://www.ustream.tv/leolapo... - Robbie Trencheny

Hi Keith, yeah, FriendFeed has a lot of UI things that bug me too. - Robert Scoble

or here yeah - Robbie Trencheny

@LAG i think http://live.twit.tv/ but you can also check it here http://hans.li/28 - Hans Kainz

Do you think gdgt will have the best inside coverage? - Jim Posner

@Robert - i made a list of twitterers covering the event live, then threw it in my blog: http://www.livedigitally.com/2010... - Jeremy Toeman

Stephen Fry is there apparently. Hah - Jalada

and direct link to the list: http://twitter.com/jtoeman... - Jeremy Toeman

Robbie: I'm posting the best Tweets to http://twitter.com/scoblei... Jeremy, that's a cool small list. My list of tech journalists is more complete. - Robert Scoble

Keith, if your in the feed, click on timestamp, then click timestamp again. The comments will pin to the bottom. - Micah

@Robert - but my list is just people covering it. yours has me in it (sweet!), and i won't be covering it... - Jeremy Toeman

Jeremy: Thanks, added that to what I'm watching - Jalada

Anyone listening to the live event on techcrunch? #AppleLive http://bit.ly/4pmTaR - BlausenGroup

Jeremy: hopefully you'll add more cause I've seen a few tech journalists who are there who aren't on your list. - Robert Scoble

Cloud integration getting lot's of coverage. I hope it happens..Will really ignite cloud adoption. - Jim Posner

I'd rather have a tablet a day to keep me healthy - Swaroop

Apple "flavored" tablet that is. - Swaroop

I'll be watching. I have Leo on my tv but you know what's all weird abut this coverage? EVERYONE is excited about it! Even non-apple peeps. I think we're all hoping for something that will change our lives tangibly. - Sheryl

@Robert - planning to, it's incredibly hard sifting through twitter search to find who is *actually* there versus who is just RTing others - Jeremy Toeman

This is Raju from iSites Team. How are you guys doing? - Raju Sagiraju

I'm in Sydney, Australia right now. The TWIT stream doesn't work and the audio stream doesn't appear to work at all. - Gary

I'm in Canada just up the road and it works fine here, sorry to hear your struggling with the feed. - Owen Greaves

I would pay to watch a live stream of the apple event! - Raju Sagiraju

History has it that the Apple -Eve saw changed.... ! Apple is going to change communications and... ! - kailas desai

thanks Scobleizer... I'll stay on this thread then! - .LAG liked that

i've got Scoble's tech-news-people list running on http://twitterfall.com (disc: I'm the lead developer there ;) ) - Jalada

@HansKainz... thanks for the link, opening up a new window for that... thank goodness I have a 30-inch monitor :) - .LAG liked that

I'm monitoring #AppleLive on Twitter, Robert Scoble on FriendFeed and Twit.tv - Owen Greaves

Bunch of iPhone blog editors talking the announcements here: http://friendfeed.com/2010-01... - 148Apps

@Jalada - can you add mine too by any chance? http://twitter.com/jtoeman... - Jeremy Toeman

Jeremy: Oh yeah, sorry, I am running that too :D - Jalada

Has anyone seen our Blausen Human Atlas on the itablet yet? Interested in feedback - BlausenGroup

@Jalada how do i find it? - Jeremy Toeman

GUys, Leo Laporte has over 20000 viewers on his site! - Mark

Jeremy - on Twitterfall you can add lists to view in realtime by just typing the name in the lists text box on the left :) - Jalada

e.g. @jtoeman/appletabletlive - Jalada

these are the latest from an hour ago...http://i.gizmodo.com/5458217... - Ryan

got it - cool! - Jeremy Toeman

How long before they let everyone in ? - fmclean from iPhone

apple store still up - Ryan

Ryan: It's the big surprise - no new product today ;) - Jalada

Happy apple day everyone :) - Hitesh Parashar

thanks @rene - Keith Teare

Hitesh or maybe they're announcing v2 of the Apple HiFi - Mike Doeff

surely that's iHiFi? - Roger Pettett from twhirl

Mike - yeah that explains the excitement :) - Hitesh Parashar

I'm broadcasting live from http://ustream.tv/scobleizer now, let me know if you can hear it OK. - Robert Scoble

yup can hear it fine - Jalada

Apple may really need to make this tablet a success since less than extraordinary iPhone shipments in this last quarter may point to rival phones blocking further iPhone steep incline. - Tim Jones

Ooooh only a few minutes till Apple tablet news kicks off. Can't wait to see what Job's reveals - Susan Beebe

The Apple announcement brought FF down for a while:-) - Francine Hardaway

Google Wave anybody ? - Kashif Khan

it's up and down - James Prudente

would love to see the carriers' net utilization stats during this thing... - Eric

Please post a Wave URL if you've got one. - Steve and 4 other people

Using http://friendfeed.com/iphone is a bit more reliable, but not realtime. - Steve and 4 other people

And here we are. Thanks! - Jon Winters

live.twit.tv not responding. - Micah

Micah: ustream is struggling. - Robert Scoble

Listening to Leo LaPorte & following Scoble here & Gizmodo - Rosalinda Mojarro

Can't get twit.am to load via iphone here - Ryan

Nice live, auto-updating coverage with pics at GDGT: http://live.gdgt.com/2010... *Found this link in Robert's FF! - Kurt Starnes

So much for real time streaming and commenting. Now we know where the network breaks down in an "emergency" - Francine Hardaway

well i have a public wave set up here https://wave.google.com/wave... - Kashif Khan

I can't believe Steve Jobs hasn't taken over the live-streaming part of the presentation. My memories are going to be of Leo's voice getting lost in the digital haze. - Ian McGee

Scoble, cant hear you at ustream. - Jayasimhan Masilamani

Pretty good audio at live.twit.tv - Mike Doeff

i dont think friendfeed is used to this much activity anymore. site is failing for me non-stop. but i will say my simple list of 22 people is giving me a very *readable* way to follow the news... - Jeremy Toeman

I wonder how much of it has to do with the fact that there's no one dedicated to minding the store anymore. - Akiva

Apple is the largest mobile device manufacturer in the WORLD. - Lakshman Prasad

friendfeed's working fine here - Tim Jones

The site crashing is troublesome. Sign of the current state of FF. - Mark Krynsky

all the live news sites are busted hah - Allen Stern

Lakshman- I thought Nokia is the largest mobile device manufacturer in the WORLD, mobile being phones here. As for laptops, it would be one of the PC makers. - Tim Jones

http://live.gdgt.com is fine - Jalada

Doh - live.twit.tv lost the audio - Mike Doeff

I'm watching live blog here http://www.engadget.com/2010... it's better than any live tv or any other shit i have been trying so far... - Junal Rahman

http://live.twit.tv & http://live.gdgt.com/2010... are the best online resources I've found. The 2 combined is great. - Mark Krynsky

Both Twit & GDGT working for me. - Mark Krynsky

live.twit.tv is down - can't get there. - Debi Jones

ipad!!!! - Jayasimhan Masilamani

the crunchgear livestream is pretty bad... - Allen Stern

Oh look it's a giant iPhone - Jalada

damn gdgt is slick - Allen Stern

iPad! - Parth Awasthi

http://live.twit.tv/ - Rosalinda Mojarro

A tablet? Didn't see that one coming... - Jemm

ha! Twitter crashed! - .LAG liked that

I REALLY wanted them to not announce one :P hah - Jalada

It's more beautiful than my girlfriend! - Aycan Çevik

Even the calendar looks great - Mike Doeff

aycan - it is my girlfriend - Allen Stern

it's Fujitsu's iPad! - Tim Jones

FriendFeed is back. - Simon Cahuk

Hmm, I'm guessing the iPad will support Flash or else...total FAIL! - Mark Krynsky

I'm sticking with the JooJoo :) - Mike Doeff

FriendFeed crashed. GDGT is doing best job. - Robert Scoble

...so it's about 17-inches diagonal? - .LAG liked that

why is he describing these things like they're new - we've seen them on the iPhone - Andrew Terry

waiting for Flash - Tim Jones

broadcasting on CNBC right now. - Thomas Hawk

No flash. - Jeff P. Henderson

No Flash on device. - Robert Scoble

CNBC just cut feed of jobs, talking about it now. - Thomas Hawk

Besides it being a larger, slightly tweaked iPhone; why should I buy this? I really don't like how it looks exactly like a blown up iPhone. - Joshua

AAPL stock down $5 per share. - Thomas Hawk

Uh oh...@mmastrac just told me Engadget showed a missing plugin flash icon in a screenshot. - Mark Krynsky

ipad.apple.com. Nothing. - Aycan Çevik

CNBC: Steve Jobs looks much better, far more robust than the last time we saw him. - Thomas Hawk

when u guys say flash do you mean Adobe Flash or Flash drive? - Allen Stern

So far nothing that is different to a normal tablet - Mark

The software is key - Mark

CNBC: Steve Jobs is the modern day snake oil salesman. - Thomas Hawk

So far a little underwhelming imo - Kashif Khan

Yup, software is key, but so far haven't seen much revolutionary. - Robert Scoble

$aapl always goes down on the announcement after a run up in the weeks before. - Keith Teare

No Flash = TOTAL FAIL! It will be a long time for HTML 5 to take over. - Mark Krynsky

Adobe - Jalada

No flash? My #1 goal for one of these would be watching TV on Megavideo. - Daniel J. Pritchett

is this on the cnbc.com Thom? - Mark

Thomas: any live stream on the web? - Robert Scoble

The whole internet in the palm of your hand, unless you want to visit a web site with flash. - Jon Winters

Doesn't look like it has a video camera - Keith Teare

not sure, watching CNBC live on TV. Can't find a live stream anywhere. - Thomas Hawk

did he confirm no flash? - Mark

Waiting for the punchline. How much $$$ ? - Mike Doeff

Mark: If Apple keeps pushing away from Flash, than HTML5 will take over quicker than we know. - Joshua

Folks please don't get carried away. so far its just a tablet pc, there have been MANY tablet pcs. - Mark

It's just CNBC talking about it though. Paul Kredrodsky talking about it with CNBC live from the event. - Thomas Hawk

Live audio here: http://live.twit.tv/ - Kurt Starnes

they are debating what it will price at. - Thomas Hawk

Daring Fireball has a great explanation as to why Apple and Adobe are at odds over Flash, good read, if you're interested in why Flash is a problem for Apple: http://ff.im/-ePkYc - .LAG liked that

fox business is showing some tape-delayed video live - Allen Stern

Just a tablet PC like iPhone was just a mobile phone (Note: take a look at almost every smart phone since iPhone launch) - Kurt Starnes

The price cant be high for a blank slate. - Mark

Yes, Gruber has a very good explanation about Flash and Apple. - Simon Cahuk

And whats with the huge bezel? - Mark

CNBC: I think the name iPad is a mistake. Sue Herera: it reminds me of feminine products. - Thomas Hawk

LAG...users won't be sympathetic to why Apple and Adobe are at odds...missing Flash is a dealbreaker. - Mark Krynsky

I have one pill for all clinical apple fanboys (be it even whole usa population) - button HIDE - A. T.

listening to laporte's ustream. i just yawned, but it could just be that i slept late last night - Tim Jones

"Apple Drops an iDud" is a funny headline - Mark

We will talk about this at http://ustream.tv/scobleizer - Robert Scoble

Joshua...HTML 5 won't happen fast enough for the iPad... - Mark Krynsky

But I think the price for iPad will be high :). - Simon Cahuk

9.7" display - David Damore

Did I hear that right? - David Damore

0.5-inches thin, weighs just 1.5 pounds. - .LAG liked that

Adobe has invited me to a Flash event in February that's going to be a pretty big deal, but no iPhone. - Robert Scoble

good question by mossberg - does this ipad take away sales from the ipod tuch ? - Allen Stern

There can't be any Flash. It's based on the iPhone OS, which currently doesn't have that capability either. What a surprise. Not really. - LANjackal

100,000 peopel are watching TWIT Live - Mark

CNBC: 10 hours of battery life. - Thomas Hawk

10 hours of battery life? With wifi on? - Robert Scoble

iPad runs a custom Apple chip -- the A4. That has to be a first - ever? - Kurt Starnes

108,000 + viewers on TWiT Ustream channel. - Debi Jones

a 1ghz chip :( - Mark

Mark Krynsky... I agree with you of the deal-breaking aspect of no Flash - .LAG liked that

Wow: http://www.apple.com/downloa... - James

this will boost sales of the Touch - Bill Koslosky, MD

Mark - a custom chip though - Jalada

can a 1ghz chip play HD video? - Mark

I know my 1.4ghz atom struggles with 720p - Mark

Pixel doubling? Are you serious? Runs apps at essentially 320x480? "Black box" 1:1 in the center of the screen? This is a joke. - Steve and 4 other people

It is A4, an Audi, so yes, it can play HD video :). - Simon Cahuk

Price? Shipping date? - Francine Hardaway

lol! Pixel doubling! We used to do that making DOS games back in the day - Mark

so, wait... no 3g? - Andrew Terry

Pathetic. - Mark

Allen, I think the answer to your question about iPad robbing Touch sales will be a resounding no as soon as we hear the price point. - Mark Krynsky

battery life 10 hours? realistic? o_O - Ronald

340x960 resolution for the tablet then ? - Mark

How many iPhone apps can be on the screen and running at the same time? - David Damore

CNBC speculating on the price at $1,000. - Thomas Hawk

Figures that number would be unlimited ... - LANjackal from IM

i think most of the existing iPhone apps have to be rewrite for iPad to get the full screen advantage - Junal Rahman

Multitouch (multiplayer multitouch) - Robert Scoble

who won the kindle - Joseph from twhirl

good point mark - Allen Stern

My guess: $799 - Mike Doeff

Honestly? So far, I'm pretty disappointed. - Joshua

conflicted. with a 10 hr battery i can see this replacing a kindle. but I'm pretty happy reading on my nexus. Do I want to go back to carrying a 10" screen? - Ben Reierson

Rewriting apps for screen resolutions? Won't that result in "fragmentation" of the App Store market? I mean, that's what tech journos have been beating Android over the head with for the past 6 months or so - LANjackal from IM

Robert, isn't that called Twister? - Akiva

"How many iPhone apps can be on the screen and running at the same time?" One. No apps running in the background. - James

fox business guy bashing the ipad for no keyboard and light gig memory - Allen Stern

i'd bet the people who can shell out for a kindle will run for an ipad - Allen Stern

@LANjackal it will be all packed in a fat executable, both low and hi res - ↂGiorgiँ Zarrelliↂ

Can the iPad dial your iPhone from it's adress book? - Jon Winters

I honestly was hoping for a tweaked Touch Ready OS X. Not what feels like a port of the iPhone. - Joshua

Eh...so far I'm not impressed and don't see anything revolutionary. Sure this device is pretty but I'm already thinking if it's priced any higher than $500 I'm declaring it only a device for early adopters and Fanboys. - Mark Krynsky

It would be cool if you could run apps side by side. Twitter app and a news app etc. Take advantage of the big screen and not need to resize native iPhone apps. - David Damore

Have they mentioned it's internet connection? Wi-Fi or something else? - Jon Winters

apple stock up 2,170% since 2003 - holy crap. - Allen Stern

Leo's feed is finally showing video from event. - Robert Scoble

david - scoble will have 3 ipads taped together for mobile usage to mirror his home setup :-P - Allen Stern

This thing is going after the Xbox. - Robert Scoble

It's about what I expected. Price is really the key here...and if you need a Mobile Contract. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

This points up the convenience of a smart phone, at 1/4 the price. - Bill Koslosky, MD

Live video from inside; EA demo at http://www.ustream.tv/leolapo... - Ian McGee

Apple stock is dropping FAST! Not good. I want one...no matter what anyone else says. I think it would be cool. - Sheryl

iPad Fans join us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages... - Hans Kainz

im guessing sxsw will be renamed - iPadsw - Allen Stern

Robert - no, it's going after DS Lite and PSP - Andrew Terry

Apple is 30 minutes into their iPad presentation. The stock is down 2.5%, so Apple has lost $4 BILLION in market cap over the last 30 min. From @hotzington - Mark

"Going after the Xbox" Yeah when either device has half the capabilities of the other, let me know. Don't be ridiculous - LANjackal from IM

Maybe we should buy the stock, wait for it to go back up, sell, then buy an iPad? - Robert Scoble

Wait LOOK!!! There's more than just Apple!! http://friendfeed.com/got-mem... - sofarsoShawn

no way xbox - maybe a nintendo ds - the thing is - if this thing does iphone voice - then maybe people buy this instead of an iphone? - Allen Stern

Here we go; wave goodbye to the Kindle... - Andrew Terry

There is actually an iPad listed on Apple's website, but it is just a little different - check it out here http://bit.ly/d6f66J - Arun

iPad is going to be a big deal -- much more than the specs alone reveal. - Kurt Starnes

somewhere Jeff Bezos sits, perspiring. - Parth Awasthi

Not impressed at all. A big "meh" - Spencer

So reading is NOT the killer feature - Mark

I was happy reading on my Touch a year ago. The Kindle app is really sweet. - Daniel J. Pritchett

to me the kindle is a "rich" device meaning the avg american isn't buying it - same with the ipad so it works perfectly - those with kindle money will run to the ipad - Allen Stern

wow so apple is now going to fight amazon - i hope amazon kicks apples ass :) - Allen Stern

Yea right Mark...cold day in hell when Apple would do that. - Mark Krynsky

@Allen Stern +3 Re: "scoble will have 3 ipads taped together" - David Damore

the price for the new 10" ipod touch ? - tony bland

iPad is a new platform -- I bet it's where Apple wants to take personal computing - Kurt Starnes

you're going to give a presentation with your audience huddled around a 9" handheld device..? Really? - Andrew Terry

will ipad apps work on the ipod touch/ iphone ? - tony bland

Andrew: and that is going after the Xbox too. Just watch how Microsoft reacts to this. Microsoft wanted to do an Xbox portable. - Robert Scoble

mememe for the kindle - Joseph from twhirl

My sons already have been using Xbox less since iPhones came out. iPads will steal even more time from Xbox. - Robert Scoble

There are no buttons on it! you can't do serious gaming without buttons. - Mark

Andrew - do you give presentations around a laptop screen? - Kurt Starnes

@Kurt: into a brave new world in which every app will need their approval? Sounds like a nightmare for "personal computing" IMO. I hope you're wrong - LANjackal from IM

wait, you can rotate and resize photos with touch?! Amazing! - Ben Reierson

LAN - I mean the way people use computers. The mouse/hard-keyboard UI is old fashioned, IMO - Kurt Starnes

+++Krynsky "No Flash = TOTAL FAIL! It will be a long time for HTML 5 to take over. " -- The size of the tablet makes it a natural for web browsing - except for lack of flash support. It was disappointing in the iPhone but quite ridiculous in the iPad. I don't "love" flash but it's a fact of life on the web. - Richard Walker

all my 12 yr old son plays these days is Modern Warfare 2 - Tim Jones

I'm with you on your commentary Allen...btw you going to SXSW? Good time having lunch with you last year. - Mark Krynsky

Robert, that's just incidental, in the same way you'll probably watch less TV if you buy an ATV and decide to go riding around in it often. Doesn't mean the ATV and TV manufacturers are in competition. Sheesh - LANjackal from IM

Kurt - no; not around a laptop, but I do swing it around so the screen is facing my audience.. - Andrew Terry

A computer with a 1GHZ cpu. It's a bit 2001. - Mark

LAN - And, I am hopeful that iPad is not locked down the way iPhone is! - Kurt Starnes

I bet the HP Slate has flash *gunshots* - LANjackal from IM

iWork on the iPad....YAWN...what else? - Mark Krynsky

Mark - I think we'll have to use one to make a reasonable judgment on the chip - Kurt Starnes

Just saw the pics of the iPad over on Engadget. Sweet Jebus, that thing is ugly. It's got like 2 inches of border around the thing. From the pics, I'm betting it's locked down too, with apps from a new App Store. Epic Fail. - Otto

Jobs hates flash, there was no way he would put it on this device - Kim Landwehr

where is the camera? - Markus Kobler

Thinking... The iPad attaches to your MacBook as a second display with seamless integration Photographers can edit photos directly with their fingers. - Jon Winters

Kurt: It uses the iPhone OS, which means it'll probably also use the App Store. Which means it'll be just as locked down. - LANjackal from IM

Jon - that would be a) very cool and b) make total sense - Andrew Terry

Biggest deal so far - unless it is still to come - no camera so no ichat - Keith Teare

Otto: same app store. - Robert Scoble

I have very little problem with the iPhone being locked down, so I doubt it will be an issue for me with the iPad. - Jeff P. Henderson

@Jon Winters wifi 802.11n; still no price tho - brainno722 (Peter)

Hah. $9.99 for iWork. - Robert Scoble

That would make sense, actually - LANjackal from IM

No clear what screen res is. implied 2 x iphone 3gs, so 960x640??? - Keith Teare

Each app. - Robert Scoble

sub-HD in other words, and not widescreen, - Mark

.11n's an honest plus - LANjackal from IM

Ah - Kurt - he just said you can connect to a projector via a cable... problem solved - Andrew Terry

Will be 3G models - Kurt Starnes

subscription data. UGH! - TranceMist

Unlimited Data plan for $29 - Kurt Starnes

Another monthly fee for you apple guys to get net - Mark

no contract unlimited data! - Vezquex

And can cancel anytime. - Robert Scoble

All iPads unlocked GSM - Kurt Starnes

This makes me want a MiFi. - Daniel J. Pritchett

lan olm flood yapmayın flood banlarım sizi, bak hala la yörü - Emre Savaş

250MB a month is lolable. - Mark

Whats 250MB divided by 30 days ? - Mark

Unless it's being sold through carriers (and hence subsidized) this thing's gonna be expensive. Def not an impulse by for most people - LANjackal from IM

I still do not understand why they can't make these things (both iPhone and this new thing) "sync" via WiFi. Why must I connect the thing to my computer? They're on the same network FFS! Making me use a USB cable is just frickin' stupid. - Otto

Great deal on dataplan - I'll carry one around, may replace my laptop eventually - Kurt Starnes

Data plans seem somewhat reasonable when you consider WiFi in most cases. Still in bed with AT&T though. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

less than 999 - Vezquex

Now I'm hearing $9.99 for apps ... guess how much I paid for the apps on my DROID? $0. The only apps I pay for now are Evernote and Office on my PC. Period. - LANjackal from IM

??! - Vezquex

fuck year 500 - Vezquex

Well 499 is a different story. - Todd Hoff

$499!!!!!! - Kurt Starnes

Otto: probably because it might make DRM harder to implement. It's a lot easier to verify hardware that's physically connected to the machine, than to verify a client that you can't touch - LANjackal from IM

Sold! - Kurt Starnes

$499!!! Suddenly it's a winner! - Andrew Terry

$15 for 250MB is still overpriced. I get 1 GB for 10 EUR (pre-paid plan). - Nils Sandin

$829 for 3G 64GB - Kurt Starnes

2-3 months - Vezquex

so at&t takes a hit on the monthly but gobbles up $130 extra per pad - Allen Stern

too many models - Bill Koslosky, MD

499 for 16 GB version... - Wang Yip

$829 for the good one; NO CAMERA = underwhelming - ryangraves

keyboard charging dock. clever girl - Vezquex

You guys might wanna ask Sony how well a $499 price works for a non-PC mass market product. - LANjackal from IM

@LANjackal: The problem there is that that system backfires. I specifically do not buy media on the iTunes store because of the "must sync to the computer" problem. I don't connect my gear to my computer, ever. I haven't hooked my phone up since the first day I got the thing (and jailbroke it). I very likely never will hook it up again, because there's no point. Also, if they need verification, then a simple 2-key cryptographic system could be made to work easily enough. - Otto

Are there iPhone apps for DSLR tethering? - Jon Winters

Biggie Sized iPhone without the Phone ?????? - Owen Greaves

Optional solar-powered case? Wait for it... ;-) - Ian McGee

Owen, with 3G model I am guessing one could connect with a Bluetooth earpiece - Kurt Starnes

what happened to the remarkable UI? - Bill Koslosky, MD

whats the big deal about sync to the computer, its not that hard, people make it sound like its worst then pulling teeth. - Kim Landwehr

Owen, who said no phone? It has a microphone and 3G. - Vezquex

I agree with you, Otto. I was only stating a reason for the lack of capability - LANjackal from IM

No camera is a blunder, IMO. Has no camera been confirmed? - Kurt Starnes

Lanjackal: Zing! - Joshua

The Cure? - Jon Winters

$829!!?? EL OH EL that's more than my rent right now. - LANjackal from IM

No cloud and no wifi syncing sucks too. I hate plugging things in when there's perfectly good air all around me. - Todd Hoff

Kurt: would you really use it as a camera? The form factor's totally wrong - LANjackal from IM

Still 1 app at a time? - ryangraves

Wrong for that purpose, I meant - LANjackal from IM

+1 Otto - I use my iPhone daily and I haven't synced it in months. It's jailbroken. I also can't stand the regular iTunes updates I keep getting - they update the program more often than I start it. - Daniel J. Pritchett

I'm pretty sure people are looking for a webcam LAN, not a DSLR - Daniel J. Pritchett

No multi-tasking? Are they serious? Holy hell, that's inane. - Otto

my $300 netbook w/ Kindle for PC works for me - Tim Jones

LAN -- for tele-Skype, yes. - Kurt Starnes

Please, just improve the iPhone and iTouch. The first time you drop the iPad will be the last. The mobile sites for the NYTimes are good enough for me. I don't need the Flash ads. If you're in public, you can't set it down, you can't put it in your pocket. - Bill Koslosky, MD

Yep, iPad = Giant iPhone (exactly as I wanted / predicted) - didn't get camera tho = iFail - Susan Beebe

K I'm with you guys on the webcam idea. - LANjackal from IM

Bill -- I don't have a very good record with any dropped computer, except iPhone and other cell phones, surviving drops. - Kurt Starnes

aww, TWiT lost the feed. - Vezquex

iPad = iMeh - Bill Koslosky, MD

was that Leo Laporte filming? - Vezquex

All things considered, I'm pretty underwhelmed... it's a big iPod, but not as portable. - Andrew Terry

How long until I can run Android on it? :-P - TranceMist

Can't wait to get a hold of one. Take care folks. - Kurt Starnes

Should have shocked everyone with a name nobody expected: The iNewton - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

No multitasking? Wow. How bad of a product release is this? A $500 - $830 device that's completely locked down and can't multitask or webcam? And as some people on Twitter are pointing out: iPad? Really? Were there any women in the original focus group? - LANjackal from IM

Everyone laughed at the Palm Folio. - Jon Winters

AT&T sucks ass. - Thomas Hawk from iPhone

AT&T suckage depends on where you are. Here in Memphis, for example. AT&T is quite good. I get ridiculous speeds off the 3G and never have a dropped call. When I travel to Atlanta, the experience there is quite different. - Otto

iPad is not the netbook killer - Tim Jones

Kurt: I can only see this as a household device. If you prop this thing up with its case at a Starbucks table, looks like trouble. No video-conferencing, but prob in the next version. - Bill Koslosky, MD

I bet iPad is the netbook killer, Tim Jones. - Vezquex

"I don't see this leaving the house too often," says Leo. But he thinks it's the "ultimate airplane device." - Bill Koslosky, MD

Scoble's Nexus One ustream streaming quality is better than his iPad streaming quality right now - Tim Jones

any announcments about iPhone's moving to other carriers? - Amani from IM

Expect an iPad killer from Google within 6 months. - Jim Posner

Household users, Airplane users, student users, personal entertainment users, ebook reades, basic laptop users....that's a pretty huge market. - Leif Hansen

New Apple Home Page http://www.apple.com/ - Rosalinda Mojarro

+1 Otto on the Memphis 3G. I get silky smooth service and I always have to remind myself about the problems in larger markets. - Daniel J. Pritchett

What does this do for the Kindle, Nook and all the other e-ink readers? I'd say they're in trouble. Except for reading a textbook, I think a device just 2x larger than the iTouch would be more convenient. - Bill Koslosky, MD

@Bill I'd agree mostly on the ebook readers. But there is something *really* nice on the eyes with e-ink that I'm hesitant to give up (and go back to zombie brain lit screens). - Leif Hansen

Leo Laporte just said that it's an incredible device when you actually get your hands on it... beautiful, light, incrediblly responsive screen... I'll wait until I get to play with one before judging on what it lacks, and whether or not that's detrimental - .LAG liked that

Apple stock went from being down to now being up $3.12. As soon as the price came out the stock turned and went up. - Thomas Hawk

iPad does not support T-Mobile's 1700 GHz 3G frequencies - TranceMist

Ummmm ok ... I can think of many incredible, beautiful devices that I have no use for. This is another one of them. The iPhone, yes. The iPad? No. Not at that price point, at least - LANjackal from IM

Thomas ...isn't a lot of the stock movement in the last couple of hours really just speculators betting on what was going to officially get announced today? - .LAG liked that

Is there a GPS? - Todd Hoff

No shit it doesn't. T-Mobile's gone all in with Android - LANjackal from IM

I didn't hear when Apple would allow people to order the iPad. Did anyone else? - Jeff P. Henderson

the specs dont list GPS capabilities. Am I wrong ? - Kashif Khan

Jeff: I think someone said 1 - 3 months earlier in the thread - LANjackal from IM

@.LAG liked that, I think the stock move has to do with the price. The market liked the $499 price more than the speculated higher $1,000 price. It was down until the price was announced then it turned up. - Thomas Hawk

Thomas... makes sense. $499 is a price that will probably move lots of units - .LAG liked that

No it won't. Ask Sony what happened with their $500 price point for the PS3. $500 is not an impulse buy. For that you have to be at $299 or below - LANjackal from IM

Giant iPod. Hopefully an OS refresh will unlock some goodness. Otherwise? This is a shiny paperweight. - ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift

+1 - LANjackal from IM

They've not updated the UK store yet with info about the ipad. A little let down about the lack of bluetooth connection to a dekstop/laptop mac for use as an input device. Also, not bothered about the 3G version as I'd rather buy a mifi and use that saving myself cash and letting more devices access the net on the go ;) - alphaxion

Oh. And KILLER wood paneling! - ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift

Next? Steve Jobs brings back the <BLINK> tag. - ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift

It would be cool if I could get a mifi-type device with a $15/30 per month no-contract billing option. That would make all of these devices tempting. - Daniel J. Pritchett

here in the UK 3 offer a mifi with a 1 month rolling contract, 5Gb per month limit with £40 up front for the mifi or a pay as you go mifi for £70 up front - alphaxion

That sounds sweet alpha, I think here it's like $60/mo. with a long-term contract. Let me double-check that. Edit: Looks like the minimum mifi contract is $40/mo. for 250MB and it doesn't say how long the contract lasts. http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c... - Daniel J. Pritchett

http://www.three.co.uk/Mobile_... once I get myself a job I'll be buying one. - alphaxion

yikes! http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Thomas Hawk

orange - Mike Chelen

This was always Steve's/Apple's vision, 20 years on will work??? of course it will Apple have got the consumer mesmerized. - VirtualPeople

Our post-keynote discussion with Google's Don Dodge and str.ate.gy's Elizabeth Brooks is here: http://www.ustream.tv/recorde... - Robert Scoble

BWAHAHAHAH! The iPad, with built in virus protection! LOL... http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Otto

Good points over on Gizmodo as to why it is not a complete win. - Martha

sen de mi be hacı - dolly

hahaha yasu budur ahahahahaha:D - dolly

valla bu apple manyakları dünyayı sarmış bizimkilere de elma lazım haklısın tabiyki dee - dolly

How to use iPad-->http://ff.im/eX6qo - Yunus YAMANER (CITRIL)

is there no way of buying the low end model and adding in an sdxc card to bump it up to 64GB? Having no camera is ridiculous and as usual you are locked into the apple ecosystem. Once again you either love the way they do things or you don't. It will be a popular device, but I'm always amazed at how many people are quite happy with Apple's walled garden. This is what killed them in the... more... - Phil Ashman

There is an SD card reader peripheral included. - Vezquex

:) - ★ Soner Gönül

hmm... it also doesn't look like it supports multiple user profiles and it's *still* tethered to a single machine with itunes. - alphaxion

Orange. The tablet still doesn't work well as the video livestream interface between my DVCam and whatever RMTP server I need to transmit to. Seriously whatever, as far as I'm concerned. - Rich Reader

I *gulp* miss Scoble. - Kevin Fox

Robert Scoble

First take: this isn't as revolutionary as iPhone, but I will still get one. Problem is I'm weird. Will normal people buy one? Hard sell.

January 27, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Silence4N, Jeff P. Henderson, Şafak Kocaer and 9 other people liked this

What do you think about using it as a home automation controller, a super logitech harmony - richwright from Yoono

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Lots of good use cases for this iPad device - but will not be mainstream for a while, i think - Susan Beebe

I think the iPad will solve a lot of cases for a significant part of the long tail. Success from that? Maybe - Matt M (inactive)

It will be huge next Christmas. People will buy them for their kids and they will be the item you can't find - RAPatton

I'll be buying one. The 32GB WiFi version is priced at exactly what I need and with my plans for it, I won't likely need 3G. - Akiva

I know I will be beta testing this with students - have to see what they say about it. That will be the true test - will my students love it. - Dan owns Comicsforge.com

Will we able to subscribe to papers and magazines via the iBook store (like the Kindle model)? - Andrew Terry

For $499 and up? No. It doesn't fit a need for the average person at that price. Especially with the monthly data plan pricing on top of it. I mean, hell, I can get a really good laptop for less than $500. And it can run more than one program at a time. If the price was $299, then *maybe* they'd be able to turn it into a success. I could see it being an alternative to one of those 10 inch netbooks. - Otto

To be completely revolutionary, it would need to have a new core piece hardware (ie multitouch). Yet I still think it's pretty revolutionary, and I can't wait to get my hands on one. Looks gorgeous. - Leif Hansen

I'm really interested in whether the iPad has the same Exchange support the iPhone has (or extended). - Jennifer Dittrich

I am in w/ the 3G 64GB model. And remembering some of the famous derisive quotes when iPhone was released. :-> - Kurt Starnes

I think the smart ones will wait a few months for the inevitable price drop. But as a non-Mac user who's tired of Windows' alarming consistency at being horrible, I'm definitely interested. - Ciaoenrico

jcunwired - Yes, I could get behind that too. - Ciaoenrico

Since to make it comfortable to use like a laptop (long typing sessions) you need to carry more gear, and almost make it as much gear as a laptop, it is something of a hard sell. It's just too large to replace the phone. It will be great for commuters and air travelers who want to read and be entertained, and still be able to stay connected, with a more comfortable interface than the phone. It's a hard sell, but I suspect it will sell very very well. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

I will definitely get one. I'll wait for the 3G models. - Jeff P. Henderson

So we're at least 60 days away from an available iPad and there's already an alleged iPad killer from Google? There's nothing to kill yet! - Kurt Starnes

My final #ipad thoughts for today: *Pros* --beautiful, fast, light, incredibly well re-designed or new apps (maps, ibooks reader, calendar, photos, iworks!, etc), 10 hr battery lifereally fair starting price. *Cons* --no camera(s) & thus no vidconf, no multi-tasking, mixed about name (though I bought about 10 related domain names), no free 3g (unlike Kindle) - Leif Hansen

I've been an Apple fanboy since 1984 and I'm not annoyed. The attention is nice having survived the dark days of 1997. :-> - Kurt Starnes

Awesome product.... but right now I'm picky about how I spend money. $500 can buy a decent laptop with lots of storage. - Don Bonaddio

John Furrier

bye bye joo joo and crunchpad

January 27, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Karoli and Mike Doeff liked this

Yep - And Kindle, & Nook, & tabletPCs, &, &, &... - PXLated

I think there will still be a market for Kindle/Nook, on the low end...but it'll be an uphill haul. - Karoli

Mike Bracco

iPad data pricing overview - - http://mikebracco.posterous.com/ipad-da...

January 27, 2010 from Posterous - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Doeff liked this

Posted via web from Mike Bracco [mikebracco.com] - Mike Bracco from Posterous

Payal Chakravarty

Check out job vacancies on a map - mashup of Google map and SimplyHired http://techjobsmap.com/

January 18, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Doeff liked this

MG Siegler

Big News - Yelp Enables Check-Ins On Its iPhone App; Foursquare, Gowalla Ousted As Mayors http://www.techcrunch.com/2010...

January 15, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Chris Heath and Mike Doeff liked this

I'll say it again. MG Siegler is the master of the catchy headline. - Mike Doeff

thanks mike. - MG Siegler

Robert Scoble

Have you ever seen a cooler office than Charles Alleneck's (he is an animator at Industrial Light and Magic)? Photo:

January 16, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

leyli, TradersLog, Jason A. Samfield and 127 other people liked this

You've seen his work on Transformers (the movie) but I was blown away by his office. - Robert Scoble

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He has hundreds of transformers toys (and some Lego toys hanging from the ceiling) surrounding him at every angle. This was part of our tour today of Industrial Light and Magic (the folks who made Star Wars, among many many other movies). When we walked in he quickly hid what was on the screen. Hmmm. - Robert Scoble

Other photos from our tour are up at http://www.flickr.com/photos... - Robert Scoble

It's worth clicking on this picture. Amazing. - Mark Evans

Reminds me of a domino collection - don't know one over or they all fall down - Lyn Graft

Whoa - Mike Doeff

Yeah. Mark, a higher resolution version of this photo is here: http://www.flickr.com/photos... - Robert Scoble

The computer and monitor need some work. - Louis Gray

Louis: I was actually surprised by most of the monitors I saw at ILM. I have more glass on my desk. But most did have two monitors with a high-speed computer (and they had a kick ass data center for rendering everything). The models that we saw were unreal. I'll try to upload some of those next. - Robert Scoble

Geez, I think he has them arranged by series as well. - Rob H.

His shirt needs replaced, it looks like he got into a fight with a rainbow, and lost after he knocked out green. - Jimminy

Maybe he can only do the work he does thx to his office. - Ton Zijp

Whoa! Hope his office won't face any EQ soon :) - Nir Ben Yona

Wondering if he could find what he's looking for on the fly; probably could. - Mark Evans

Jimminy: to be fair he didn't know he was going to be photographed today for hundreds of thousands of people to see. - Robert Scoble

That's one my little brother will love. Great shot! - Zu from AOD

Jimminy, nice description of a Madras plaid. ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Melanie Reed

Yeah, I remember similar pics (not of transformers) but of other film work in progress when I was a loyal sub'er to "Starlog" mag. Anyone ever take that here? http://www.starlog.com/ - Melanie Reed

Nice shot, Robert! - Melanie Reed

Melanie: the thing is, now he just loves collecting the things. Doesn't have much to do with movies he's working on now. - Robert Scoble

.......................................WANT - Mo Kargas

Can you imagine having to dust the room: "O, just give it a wide shot with compressed air every 2-3". Nice quick bursts." ;) - Melanie Reed

Robert, yeah it looks like it! - Melanie Reed

This is such a cool photo Robert. Looks like one you'd see in Life magazine. What lens did you use? - Mark Krynsky

I mostly only use one lens lately: my 17-40 F4.0 lens on a Canon 5D MK II. This was shot at 6400 ISO. Which is totally crazy. I remember when Kodak came out with 1000 ISO film that was only Black and White and had lots of grain. - Robert Scoble

Scoble, yeah I understand him not being prepared, it's just a very striking shirt, definitely an attention grabber, though the environment pulls you away. - Jimminy

Melanie, I wasn't really describing plaid so much as the colors of it. ;) - Jimminy

Jimminy, yeah, I know. I liked your description! Very apt! (for the record I dislike Madras Plaid. I had to wear it as part of a uniform for a job once...every day) ;) - Melanie Reed

I just noticed he has 8-bit Mario Bros. magnets, that's freakin' awesome. - Jimminy

My brothers who are both artists (animation and modeling) would love this room. - Melanie Reed

Wohaaaaaa - Alper Cengiz

OMG, this is too cool. :) - Stefano Maggi

Cool ! - ★ Soner Gönül

O_O - Selman

Hope he's got an inventory of all that stuff! - Robert Sanchez Jr

geek! ;) - MissMakimon

My 2yr old would destroy that place in 20 seconds flat. Robert, did he let you play with any of his toys? Great shot by the way! - michael sean wright

I WANT THIS OFFICE!!!! I COVET IT!!!!! - Renee Hendricks

Jason, thought same thing. See my comment about compressed air. ;) - Melanie Reed

How does he get work done? - Sean Oliver

How do I get in touch with him??? I really need to do an interview with him for my talk show!!! - Queen of North Norway

this is more chaotic than cool:) and I was bugged about having an untidy office:) - Neşe

He's gotta be on at least one of the TF forums... - Andrew C (✓)

my 10 year old daughter is looking at this office and wants to know how Charles concentrates! - Mary Ann Halford

Yeah, he really needs a better monitor or two. - Vezquex

I bet that's a picture of his mom ;-) - Jay

woooww is impressive !! - Verguenza

I love the Lego AT-ST - Gabe

Is that what we call a hobbie? lol jesus :) - Ludovic Godet Photographe

that's cool~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ewill

This has got to be in his mother's basement. - Jack Scalfani

And I thought I had a lot of robot toys in my office - geesh! - Brandon Ratliff

Steve Gillmor to Steve's feed, RealTime Network

Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...

January 14, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

beersage, Paul Papadimitriou, Laura Norvig and 22 other people liked this

http://www.building43.com/realtim... - Susan Beebe

205 more comments

Will be live in a few minutes! - Robert Scoble

t - 2 min and no video http://www.building43/realtim... - Chris Jackson

and just as i speak - there is video..... - Chris Jackson

I'm standing by waiting for call. - Robert Scoble

Brett Slatkin is our special guest, software engineer at Google on AppEngine. - Robert Scoble

cool, welcome Brett :) - Susan Beebe

waiting for a call here too B-) - Brett Slatkin

follow for correct b43 url - Steve Gillmor

Awesome, Go Brett! GAE and PubSubHubbub FTW! - Julien

Brett - will there be any mention of django in this segment? - Chris Jackson

There can be! Whatcha want to talk about with Django specifically? - Brett Slatkin

Any minute now. I just joined in. - Robert Scoble

Do test patterns still make sense in this "modern" world? - Bob Wyman

Hey Bob - Brett Slatkin

well - im new to django and the main reason to use django was so i can get femiliar with python so later on move to GAE. - Chris Jackson

It's on! Echo from @scobleizer :) - Julien

Brett Slatkin, Robert Scoble and Kevin Marks now on GillmorGang Live at: http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish

Dave Winer :) - Susan Beebe

Are you still hearing an echo? I'm not. - Robert Scoble

no - Susan Beebe

No echo here. - Ken Sheppardson

audio is great here in philly - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Light pinging causes "thundering herds" - Bob Wyman

No more... - Julien

has he posted the fact that he's changed his mind? ;) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

@bear : he did :) - Julien

You don't. - Darren

Bear, it was on his blog. - Bob Wyman

oh poo - everytime I think I can make a fun/somewhat-snarky joke I get bit - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

PSHB is a great protocol... we've got some exciting real-time stuff coming out next week that uses it. - Matt M (inactive)

Hi Brett, Julien. - Darren

bear -- "It's often mentioned as the reason people prefer PubSubHubBub over rssCloud. By providing for a fat ping, we erase that advantage. Now the two methods are at least at parity, with an edge to rssCloud because, once CloudPipe is done, it will work for clients that are behind firewalls and NAT, and PSHB does not." -- http://scripting.com/2009... - Ken Sheppardson

I want to know if there's going to be a cheesy RSSCloud video. - Cliff Gerrish

Who isn't blocked by him? Welcome to the crowd... - Bob Wyman

:D - Julien

I'm not, *ducks* :) - Susan Beebe

Yay! A lot of companies... and much more to come! - Julien

I like where he's going with this. :) - Darren

Cliff - is there a video for PubSub?? - Chris Jackson

Chris, this one is the best: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Matt M (inactive)

:) - Chris Jackson

Julien :) - Susan Beebe

Brett : we're just starting to see Netvibes hooks at Superfeedr for Tumblr and Posterous's hubs :) - Julien

rssCloud is still *different* in that it addresses pumping data through firewalls. However, there are many (including myself) that consider that a "bug" not a feature. PSHB is server to server protocol and leaves that server to client protocol as a distinct question. Thus, PSHB systems can integrate with long-polls, XMPP, WebSocket, etc. -- whatever is best for the specific application.... more... - Bob Wyman

yea - suprfeeder! - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Julien - coool ;) - Susan Beebe

Nice. - Darren

yup... I wonder what Greader is doing now :) - Julien

I use XMPP to consume PSHB pings with AppEngine, behind my firewall. It's about 10 lines of code on GAE. - Matt M (inactive)

Yes! mistakes : undifferentiated callback url ! - Julien

agreed - having the same callback url for multiple streams is the worst - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Matt - is the xmpp support included in GAE? and do you have a url with the 10 lines of code?? - Chris Jackson

Diff'ing is atcually the hardest thing I think - Julien

We tell them :) - Julien

http://pubsubhubbub-xmpp.appspot.com/ is the basic client I've set up.. I should zip up the source and put it up there. - Matt M (inactive)

thnx - Chris Jackson

yes, please - Ward Mundy

Chris, xmpp on AppEngine is amazingly simple. I've worked with xmpp for many years and still can't get over how easy the GAE made it to use. - Bob Wyman

http://notifixlite.appspot.com/ is another example, source on github - Julien

RSS + PubSubHubbub should be _hidden_ from the end user... - Julien

@Julien absolutely! User shouldn't even know the stuff is there. - Bob Wyman

Does the NY Times use PSHB for their feeds? - Cliff Gerrish

No but I'm Julien would be happy to help them out. - Darren

I'm sure happy to help :) - Julien

Do they want to be helped out? - Cliff Gerrish

We haven't even begun to see what the real-time applications are. This is like the web was back in 1993... You ain't seen nothing yet. - Bob Wyman

Status.net/Identi.ca is putting PubSubHubbub at the core of its new redesign. I think it's an interesting usecase - Julien

Absolutely. We generally see ~90% reduction in polling infrastructure costs. - Darren

@Darren ; can I reuse that number? - Julien

Definitely. - Darren

I put that source up for the PSHB<->XMPP gateway on GAE: http://pubsubhubbub-xmpp.appspot.com/src... - Matt M (inactive)

We're working on some great prototype for PBP on sports sites. - Julien

It's just a minimal gateway example.. Julien's example or push-bot is more appropriate if you want a more pleasant experience. - Matt M (inactive)

I'm on Skype now, sorry for the lateness, traffic hosed me - Kevin Marks

Think of all the "mobile" apps on phones that are basically just "alerting" apps of one kind or another. Once we have a general infrastructure we'll see a tremendous number of specialized feeds being generated at vastly lower cost than what it takes to build this stuff today. - Bob Wyman

Kevin :) - Susan Beebe

Is Apple's notification platform built on Jabber? - Matt M (inactive)

nothing prevents PSHB from being another endpoint on an xmpp/amqp messaging backend - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

OMB + Salmon + WebFinger + Activity Streams = A Beautiful Thing - Darren

@Matt --yes, it uses xmpp (modern name for jabber) - Bob Wyman

video can be done in the same was as jingle is done - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

@Matt : nope... it's webhooks based - Julien

@Bob... oh, maybe I'm wrong - Julien

Julien, now if status.net were intelligible re: installation, setup for geeky, but not ubertechie, users. - Karoli

Would love to see YouTube PUSH. - Darren

@Bob - oops.. I keep slipping back to the Jabber name. :) - Matt M (inactive)

RT @Darren : Would love to see YouTube PUSH :) - Julien

Robert - Google profile idea is awesome :) - Susan Beebe

@Robert : feed readers could already indicated that, because they know what feed is hubbub-enabled - Julien

If Google Reader implemented PubSubHubbub, they could show that! - Julien

Today, we have the "web browser" which is a general tool for polling data resources. It seems reasonable to assume that in the future, we'll end up with yet-another-app which is the general tool for handling push data. Some startup will have great fun inventing that general push-client application. Today, most push apps require custom code. In the future, we'll use common apps to handle *all* feeds. - Bob Wyman

Bob - isn't that kinda what google wants to do with Wave? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Yes, Cliqset does that as well. - Darren

Bob Wyman : isn't it what Seesmic/Tweetdeck will eventually build? - Julien

It's a shame that email is so fragmented and busted... IMAP already does all this stuff reasonably well. :) - Matt M (inactive)

Mike, Julien, etc. Yes, just like there were many hypertext readers before TBL's took over the world. (I even had one....) Many people are trying to figure out what the push thing will look like. Somebody is going to figure it out, but I don't think they've done it yet. - Bob Wyman

Bob - I remember the days before Mosaic and all of the protocol soup that was required to navigate the 'net back then - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Louis is a smart cookie :) - Susan Beebe

@Mark : TwitterFeed is a PubSubHubbub subscriber so that works too - Julien

I think real-time push is going to be blocked on WebSocket adoption. Long-polling HTTP is hard to do right. - Matt M (inactive)

YELL LOUDER :) - Susan Beebe

Matt, what on earth would the benefit be of blocking real-time push? that makes no sense - Karoli

@Brett : send them real-time pings every 10 seconds :) - Julien

Karoli, I meant blocked from a software-development point of view, waiting for browsers to support this universally. - Matt M (inactive)

Matt, not really. They'll work together. Server-to-Server PUSH, Server to UserAgent Websockets, Long polling, etc. - Darren

@Matt, Long polling has been surprisingly hard. I think it really became widely known back in '98 or '99 and there has even been the mod-pubsub module for Apache since about that time -- but, it was still too hard. WebSocket will definitely make all this vastly easier! - Bob Wyman

I've wanted to work with long-polling for a while, but it's so finicky and hard to get right. Jetty and Apache support that stuff with a bit of configuration, but it's never hit a critical mass and become as easy as bog-standard HTTP. - Matt M (inactive)

Brett : stop moving from left to right, you're making me sea sick :: - Julien

matt - switch to nginx ;) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Sorry my chair was being weirdo - Brett Slatkin

:D - Julien

@bear - I've been eyeing Node.js a bit lately for that one ;) But it's definitely hard to find infrastructure that supports push over HTTP well - and each one has its own way of doing things. - Matt M (inactive)

Julien & Brett LOL :D - Susan Beebe

matt - node.js? you may have the same browser issues as you would if you went to websockets now - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Check out the first version of Nexus One's logo! (correct link) http://bit.ly/6hkwZq - Miguel

PSHB + Salmon + WebFinger - Bob Wyman

agree completely - WebFinger + xrds and then PSHB + Salmon - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Push is hard in the browser right now, but I hope that with one canonical push-capable websocket standard we'll start to see better support across the board for proxies to pass it through, as well as some standard patterns for dealing with it on the server side. - Matt M (inactive)

Google Profile - could be master social profile ...hmmm - Susan Beebe

@Susan... "Google Profile" will only be *one* of many profile services. The cool thing about WebFinger is that it allows users to choose between many different "profile" providers that are all discoverable in the same way. - Bob Wyman

Yes! - Darren

Evan doesn't use FriendFeed :-) - Ken Sheppardson

Love that Scoble idea. WOW! - David Damore

Status.net FTW! - Julien

Bob - cool :) - Susan Beebe

We need these to be broadcast for us right coasters :( - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Julien - what is FTW ? - Chris Jackson

Chris - For The Win (YAY!) - Susan Beebe

:) - oh - im getting old... - Chris Jackson

hehe - Susan Beebe

Mobile will be a big driver for "real-time" data. Is it raining? Is my bus late? Is there a traffic jam ahead? Do I have new email? Is there news since I left the office? Has the meeting started? Is Gilmore on live? This is all stuff you want to know when you're walking around. - Bob Wyman

Palm Pre - LOL ... what's that?! :) - Susan Beebe

Palm CEO is a dork - I've never used an iPhone - FAIL ... no wonder Palm is dying DOH! - Susan Beebe

Google Contact sync on the iPhone/Android is a huge win for me. Mail, Calendar and Contacts are the big things I need on the phone all the time - they are always up to date. - Matt M (inactive)

Use Google contacts EVERY day... would love a nexus one phone. I use the 'exchange' feature on iPhone for push with my gContacts - Susan Beebe

We already use Twitter to make phone calls through Google Voice. Works great. - Ward Mundy

@Susan, ditto. I started using the Facebook contact picture sync too. - Matt M (inactive)

Oh yea, I don't get google voice on my iPhone either Grrr - Susan Beebe

What's funny is that all my facebook friend's pictures ended up getting pushed back into google contacts. :) - Matt M (inactive)

Matt - same here FB sync is cool - Susan Beebe

Somebody's going to have to break up the Google monopoly of open source social networking developers... - Ken Sheppardson

Ken, working on that... - Kevin Marks

Hah... nice, Kevin :-) - Ken Sheppardson

LOL --> "way above my paygrade" :) nice - Susan Beebe

Is ping.fm heavily used? After Twitter and Facebook integration, it seems like a good idea for a third-place 3rd-party integration bit for startups - Matt M (inactive)

/me hides his Seesmic badge - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Google should buy Seesmic / Ping.fm ... great idea - Susan Beebe

That is, Facebook has a head start. - Ken Sheppardson

@bear : I can't be the only advocate for PubSubHubbub at Seesmic :) - Julien

We MUST have open protocols to ensure that no one can "own" your data. Where you put your data should be based on who gives you the best service, not just who you accidently gave it to first -- and you should be able to move your data whenever you want. The key is open protocols. - Bob Wyman

Julien - oh, trust me - i've been bending some ears on that :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Errrr.... WebFinger doesn't actually require an "email address." Its just that that is what people will normally use. - Bob Wyman

Is Cliqset building their system on a Google-acquisition-target-friendly platform? - Ken Sheppardson

you should be able to use a JID for webfinger - right? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bob webfinger wants an email-like identifier; facebook doesn't have one. FB, twitter have url-like IDs - Kevin Marks

@Kevin Right. It is "email-like" but not necessarily actually an email identifier. - Bob Wyman

How has this conversation gone on for nearly an hour without any Apple tablet speculation? Y'all call yourself tech experts? ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

It's old news Ken - Brett Slatkin

one of the reasons I like this show - it's not a mirror of "mainstream" tech news - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

The code name for tablet is 'phone.' - Cliff Gerrish

BTW, is there any bubblegum left, Brett? - Ken Sheppardson

Yes - Brett Slatkin

Should eBay it. - Ken Sheppardson

Feature creep - love that :) -- Not sure about homogeneous app platform either - Susan Beebe

Best part about having Robert on the show is the random holding up of stuff. - Ken Sheppardson

The future of app development for mobile is Appcelerator and Phonegap and other stuff that paves over the differences. - Matt M (inactive)

Ken: :-) - Robert Scoble

web apps is the answer? - Tim Jones

My Apple mouse has no buttons. :-) - Robert Scoble

Yeah, HTML5 - Ken Sheppardson

i agree with matt on that. appcelerator, phonegap & rhomobile should win because they're built on the open web. - Josh Fraser

Web apps is a very good answer, Tim. HTML5 et al - Kevin Marks

This is like the effect the Apple Human Interface Guidelines had on GUI / HCI for personal computing. - Cliff Gerrish

Developing different apps for iPhone, Android, Palm webOS, et al is like having to develop different apps for Firefox, Chrome, IE, etc - Ken Sheppardson

Yea, I have 200 bucks in iPhone apps...ouch, plus the 500 bucks for the 3GS and the contract - Susan Beebe

We'll see more of "apps" that run in the cloud which have their interfaces running on devices. Apps will be independent of interfaces. iPhone, Android, Palm, etc. "apps" will be just interfaces to common back-end apps. - Bob Wyman

17% smartphone penetration only, more users coming online not tied down yet - Tim Jones

@Josh - yeah, exactly.. it's like a web app+ (the plus being access to optional per-platform features) - Matt M (inactive)

this has been a great show...gotta run. - Karoli

Bob: Sure, but the interface should to some extent be a function of the app, not the platform. I want gmail to look like gmail... the same interface... independent of which 3" touch-screen device I'm using. - Ken Sheppardson

writing web apps for different browsers is now becoming trivial, but it's also taken us 10 years to get here. i wonder how much faster that will happen on the mobile web. - Josh Fraser

iPhone developers tell me that Android is easier to build apps for - Susan Beebe

Native iPhone and Android apps both require learning a platform first, which kind of sucks. - Matt M (inactive)

Josh - I think it will be MUCH faster - cell phone adoption has grown faster than computer adoption ever did - and it has also made drastic advances on a faster timeline. - Rob La Gesse

Would be slick if there were cross-platform standards for the device APIs, so my HTML5 app could just access GPS functionality, for example, and not care whether I'm on android or iphone or something else. - Ken Sheppardson

IMHO: in 10 years, phones will ship with pico projectors and virtual keyboards/mice. - Matt M (inactive)

Ken, your HTML5 app can do that - see geo.js http://diveintohtml5.org/geoloca... - Kevin Marks

@rob, i agree. it largely depends on how long it takes for apple to open up.... which probably depends on how well the nexus does on sales. - Josh Fraser

was UI a part in selling baziilion RAZRs? - Tim Jones

@matt 10 years??? how about 2-5? - Josh Fraser

Keyboards and mice may not be a primary interaction model in 10 years. - Cliff Gerrish

GREAT SHOW :) - Susan Beebe

Ok that's amazing! got roughly 20 emails from people listening to the show! - Julien

Cliff, maybe - but there are always times where you can't interact verbally with your phone (classroom, meeting setting, bathroom ;)). - Matt M (inactive)

Come along to http://tummelvision.tv on twit.tv tonight - Kevin Marks

Best of luck Julien ;) - Susan Beebe

I'm thinking Natal. - Cliff Gerrish

that was fun. nice job guys. - Josh Fraser

Natal for mobile? - Matt M (inactive)

Kevin: Now if they could just shove contacts, calendars, camera, etc into HTML5, we'd be set (ala http://developer.palm.com/index...) - Ken Sheppardson

Thanks for watching everyone! - Brett Slatkin

Thanks for the great show, all... interesting as usual. - Matt M (inactive)

I think Palm made the best initial choice for a mobile platform overall betting on web-style apps. You can't do everything in HTML/JS, but you can do a *lot*. - Matt M (inactive)

Brett - Thank YOU - great show :) - Susan Beebe

Missed it again. One of these days I'll set this show straight on RSSCloud!! ; ) - Matt Terenzio

I remember when everyone would complain because it would take Steve 2 weeks to post a show to the RSS feed. Now I just sit back and wait 10 days till it hits the bootleg feed and am grateful for what I can get :) - Christian Burns

Leah Culver

Bought the latest Vampire Weekend album on Amazon for $4. <3

January 12, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Steve Gillmor to Steve's feed, RealTime Network

Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http:www.building43.com/realtime/

January 7, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

Aron Michalski, Michael Pinto, Jeroen De Miranda and 10 other people liked this

http://www.building43.com/realtim... -- - Susan Beebe

117 more comments

On Gillmor Gang in 5 minutes - Kevin Marks

Get ready for today's GillmorGang - http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish

feedbacccck!!! ** echo*** - Susan Beebe

Ah, my day just got better. Gillmor Gang is just firing up now. - Karoli

GillmorGang w/ Paul Buchheit, Danny Sullivan, Kevin Marks and Scoble - http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish

When is Verizon going to give up CDMA for LTE? - Cliff Gerrish

Danny is missing the point that because it is open and can compete it will force the US carriers to start offering features to compete across the carrier vendors - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

just caught a great screenshot of Steve at his command center. :) - Karoli

Microsoft smartphone maker is HTC - Ballmer had it at CES- not sure of the model either - Susan Beebe

Steve's bank of monitors is cool although he needs liker picture in picture or something. LOL - Jim Turner

I think it was a Ballmer 3.0 - Cliff Gerrish

LOL :D It should say, "Bing, Bing, Bing" every time it starts up - Susan Beebe

HTC HD2 - Rob La Gesse

Funny. We're using Nexus One on AT&T and it's anything but a brick. In fact, I'm not sure I've even noticed that 3G isn't available. I previously had another Android phone from Rogers that supported 3G on AT&T, and they are virtually identical in performance. - Ward Mundy

There is lots of analysis saying the google phone web site is the true game changer and not the phone. Anyone agree? - Jim Posner

Jim, I agree to an extent. Unbundling the phone/carrier is the game changer. no question. - Karoli

Jim, I think that is the sleeper hit for the first quarter. Instead of the arm-twisting that Apple had to do with AT&T to get the network behavour they needed, Google is now going to make it so that the US carriers *have* to change or be left behind as niche phone vendors - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

It felt like a stockholder meeting. - Jim Turner

That's because 'phones' are dead. The devices need to be much more than that now. - Cliff Gerrish

sigh...now i have to choose between this and the President's presser. Perhaps the President could wait a few minutes? :) - Karoli

Karoli, that's what DVRs are for. - Cliff Gerrish

LOL - Susan Beebe

I like arrington's take on the providers needing to step up now. - Jim Turner

Mike Arrington just joined the GillmorGang (live) - http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish

Zwpwpwpwpwpol';dkfa;ldfk awesome!! - Susan Beebe

LOL!!!! Voice recognition, FTW - Karoli

Robert they dont work any tme whether geeks in town or not. - Jim Turner

Untrained voice recognition has a lot more to do with the speaker than the phone. - Ward Mundy

On the GillmorGang Tank! =) - Micah

how can we use Google Voice on our iPhones????? - Susan Beebe

Ward, I agree. Using a headset/mic would help accuracy. - Karoli

I think it also helps if you spell out loud everything you want to say. - Cliff Gerrish

Just did a Nexus One Nav demo with voice recognition on YouTube. Had no problems. http://bit.ly/5NSwgd - Ward Mundy

Cliff, I spent 5 minutes training my Mac for MacSpeech, it's about 98% accurate. Amazing technology - Karoli

Karoli, did you train your Mac - or did it train you? - Cliff Gerrish

Anyone catch the Ballmer keynote last night...as a xbox 360 owner I found the natel announce interesting but not much else. - Jim Posner

On Nexus One, try: Navigate to Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. In 15 seconds, you're on your way. - Ward Mundy

Cliff, i don't feel like it trained me... - Karoli

Karoli, then it was very successful. - Cliff Gerrish

Ballmers focus seemed retrospective rather than forward looking. Has MS become irrelevant in terms of tech leadership? - Jim Posner

watching president's presser on CNN on my iphone while watching GG on my laptop. If I mistake Arrington for Obama, just shoot me. - Karoli

Cloud based phones suck when there's no access to the Net. Try connecting in Cambria, CA. - Alex de Soto

If you don't have a Google phone, check out Vlingo. I've got it on my Blackberry and I can do voice input wherever there is text input. It's also server-based - Ted Gilchrist

Uhh. All cellphones are cloud based. - Ward Mundy

"Strategic fear" is accurate label for Apple - Arrington nailed it - Susan Beebe

Apple's too proprietary / closed, could cause them to paint themselves into a corner fast - Susan Beebe

Aren't web apps on the iPhone completely open? - Cliff Gerrish

Google knows how to leverage and guide open source projects well... smart code & resource management - Susan Beebe

Cliff the apps may be open, but the holy Apple App Store is NOT open; highly biased - Susan Beebe

Apple is a consumer hardware company that invested heavily in the OS to help drive the consumer experience - that's a lot different than the Microsoft and Google focus. They all approach consumers from different starting perspectives. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

As a first generation phone the Nexus One is as equally impressive as the first gen iPhone. - Jim Posner

Danny's an Apple fanboi!!! :P - Susan Beebe

Nobody's buying an iPhone because of an app-by-app comparison like that. - Ken Sheppardson

Keep that pic - it's funny watching Arrington get all twitchy!! LOL :D - Susan Beebe

that photo of scoble cracks me up. - Karoli

People are buying iPhone's because it's the default choice at this point. - Ken Sheppardson

The question now is "Why should I buy phone X instead of an iPhone?" - Ken Sheppardson

I'm sick of the carrier coverage bashing. It's a local thing. - Chaim Krause

In the UK the iPhone has banking apps. Property apps. Apps to measure my energy consumption in the home - Jamie

its gone way beyond Twitter and Facebook - Jamie

TMobile is an excellent data carrier but yes, if you live in the boonies you may have issues - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Instead of coverage talk about customer service, etc. Things that are not geo-specific. - Chaim Krause

The days of coverage being local are long past. To be competitive, coverage needs to be there, coordinated across regions. - Karoli

Exactly why it's good that a lot of the apps on the iPhone can be used without the cloud. - Alex de Soto

M$ was very disappointing... yawn - Susan Beebe

every time i've had to contact tmobile for plan changes or questions the folks have been friendly and able to answer/fix the problem. the phone folks are a lot better then the folks in the stores - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Robert is there 'cause everybody else is there. It's like being a Deadhead. - Ken Sheppardson

Robert's at CES because, "There's a lot of parties!" LOL :D - Susan Beebe

HP placing Bing as default search engine is a BAD move for HP... bye bye - Susan Beebe

Bing has an iPhone app *yawn*. It is surprising to see Bing doesn't render on mobiles - Susan Beebe

Paul was ranting a bunch this week on M$ - funny stuff - Susan Beebe

m.bing.com renders fine on my phone - Jamie

google docs rocks - Tim Jones

Google docs is amazing... collaboration is simply fantastic. love it - Susan Beebe

m.bing.com works on Droid, but bing.com doesn't suggest it; flickr.com is smarter - Kevin Marks

Jeffrey Hayzlett uses Google docs too :) Jeff is a very smart cookie, transforming Kodak - Susan Beebe

bing.com redirects me to m.bing.com on the iphone - Jamie

facebook ads are amazingly effective and well targeted - Susan Beebe

very interesting discussion; very insightful remarks especially in the discussion about Apple vs. Google - Jeroen De Miranda

the interesting thing is that with Quattro Wireless, Apple can build in an ad network to their mobile stack to keep developers on the platform - Jamie

and use it as an alternative means of monetisation. - Jamie

targeting? apple ID info. - Jamie

the mono folks have been trying to evangelize the .net/CLR tech and have been berated constantly by Microsoft - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Apple's mobile me is a total failure on Droid too - Kevin Marks

Microsoft is throwing a lot of money at getting Silverlight to stick, but nothing has stuck yet. They have to pay off everyone to get Silverlight in. Once the money stops, Silverlight disappears. - Matt M (inactive)

mobile me uses soo many safari-specific html items it reminds me of how some MS products are tied to IE - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Kevin - haha not surprised! ;o) - Susan Beebe

I think in a year we'll have to look back at 2009 as the year Palm died its final death... sigh.... - Ken Sheppardson

Netflix watch instantly works great -- (silverlight) - Cliff Gerrish

completely agree ken - Jamie

Droid-Nexus One was the one-two punch that finally sent them to the mat. - Ken Sheppardson

I think part of it was self inflicted - Jamie

Interesting that the xbox and mobile teams have be joined at msft. - Cliff Gerrish

todays web os announcements were completely underwhelming - Jamie

Oh, ALL of it was self inflicted, Jamie... in some sense ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

XBox is a strong piece of technology - the only thread M$ has left to hang onto - Susan Beebe

Cliff, I think Netflix is the only big success story I've seen for Silverlight. - Matt M (inactive)

Zune? No mention of Zune when discussing Windows mobile stuff? - Ken Sheppardson

maybe Microsoft can buy Palm and bring their web skills to use - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Matt, how about the olympics? - Cliff Gerrish

"But after the conclusion of the [olympic] games, NBC went back to using Flash. Another setback for Microsoft came when Major League Baseball Advanced Media, the group that streams baseball games over the Web, decided to drop Silverlight." - Matt M (inactive)

bear: I think Palm's taken on too much ex-Apple persona to be a Microsoft target. :-) - Ken Sheppardson

Apps are the KEY game changer in the mobile market. Of course decent signal & data are a must too! - Susan Beebe

Why doesn't Twitter do a camera? - Ken Sheppardson

Does the Nexus One have push technology? - Karoli

Ken - ah, that's a shame - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Susan, I completely agree. Apps will drive phone decisions, etc. - Karoli

Yeah, and I completely disagree. I think early adopters overestimate the extent to which app selection matters. - Ken Sheppardson

Ease of use, carrier choice, coverage... all trump number of apps. - Ken Sheppardson

Thanks guys :) - Susan Beebe

Ken, carriers need to become seamless. I choose my carrier based on carrier, not based on handset. - Karoli

Bye Steve, thanks for a great show. - Karoli

Which do/did you chose first, Karoli: carrier or handset? - Ken Sheppardson

it's always been handset choice for me - but then again I change phones in 2-3 year cycles so i'm never locked into a contract when I decide to move. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I think the typical smartphone decision process these days goes (1) Do I object to iPhone for some philosophical reason or do I so hate AT&T so as to not buy one? (2) if so, which carrier am I on now, (3) what's the best phone on that carrier. - Ken Sheppardson

that was a 2009 era decision tree - I think the availability of android phones on all of the carriers will now change that for 2010. (or at least I hope it will) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

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