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Louis Gray
Louis Gray
How to Blog Live Events and Publish With Lightning Speed - http://www.louisgray.com/live...
March 19 from Digg - Comment - Share
Robert Scoble
Robert Scoble
FriendFeed is NOT taking off ... why? (I gave some reasons over on this blog post but wonder why we aren't seeing a LOT more FF activity?) - http://www.profy.com/2008...
June 4, 2008 - Comment - Share
I've been showing FriendFeed to tons of people and most try it out for a few minutes and then leave. It's clear to me it's not really taking off the way, say, Twitter did. I am getting pretty consistent feedback from people who say they don't see the value in it -- I left my ideas of how to get FriendFeed participation to go to a new level on the post I linked to on this cluster here. How about you? - Robert Scoble
101 more comments
no great desktop client; too complex, particularly compared to twitter; web ui sucks - wlai
wlai: yeah, the desktop client is tough, because of the two-level commenting system here. But if they implemented XMPP that'd solve that pretty quickly. - Robert Scoble
does everything come down to being as banally simple as Twitter? - Ivan Pope from twhirl
@wlai i'm using MySocial 24x7 Sidebar. a pretty good firefox extension, but still not as convenient as Twitter IM bot. - Jansen Lu
Why hasn't FF added any new feeds in several weeks? There are plenty of sites they could add. - Elliott Plack
Has Robert found a new toy? Is it Plurk? ZubHub or whatever? lol - Aviv
I made FF my home page but still struggling with it. I could just about keep up with Twitter but on here I get to see what the friends of my friends say on a tricky to navigate webpage. It's too time consuming for people that have normal jobs (no Robert, you job is not an average normal job). - Gerard van Schip
No, FF is THE toy for me right now. I just want to get other people in here and I'm getting a LOT of resistance when I sit down with people and watch what they want to do with it. - Robert Scoble
I think all these social apps need beter interop - Charles Rice from twhirl
Cyvros: links work in Google Talk. Just convert them to URLs. - Robert Scoble
Cyvros: mostly I want XMPP for listening to the system. Not for posting. - Robert Scoble
The value in FF is the potential of personal relevance and engaging in discussions without feeling overwhelmed or lost. Threads with 30+ comments are becoming more common these days, and so are 50+ likes. The thing is, Robert, I think super-users such as yourself with 2000+ friends expose individual entries to... too many people. Some complain that FF is fragmenting the conversation. Quite the contrary - I think FF will need to find ways to fragment it even more as it grows. - Aviv from ffreader
Cyvros That's the part I don't get. FF seems quite intuitive to me -- whereas other tools don't. That's not to say some refinement is not in order, mind you.... I need to give this some more thought (i.e. WHY is FF intuitive to me?). - Joanmarie
Robert, I actually like how Friend feed is right now and understand people's dislikes about it but I think it still has some potential that we will see in the coming months!! - Paul
Aviv: if you read my feedback, being able to hide completely some users is very important. The fact that I am able to "leak" into every conversation here is a huge negative for many people. - Robert Scoble
Aviv: not being able to control the noise (and the noisiest users) is a major reason why people get turned off when they first see FriendFeed. - Robert Scoble
I think part of the reason is that FF is billed as a lifestream aggregator - for people to combine their blogs, twitter, delicious, shared items, etc into one stream. But the average person doesn't have that many feeds that they need a lifestream aggregator to manage, in my opinion. Also, the desktop client thing that you guys have mentioned is important as well. - Derrick Kwa
Well the obvious answer is that for people that aren't on Friendfeed the value isn't all that clear. I'm on Friendfeed and for me it's a tool. I don't like the aggregation aspects of it, but enjoy the discussions that float around. But the main issue with ANY aggregation service imo is that it lacks intent. To me it seems that unlike early-early adopters most people don't really have a need for a constant stream of unintentional shared content. Intentional personal sharing is much more valuable to them - Alexander van Elsas
Paul: of course it has potential! Think about everything that's in the FriendFeed database that we can't yet pull out. Can I show you every item that has "n" likes? No. Can I show you every item that has "n" comments? No. Can I show you every item that has those things but with Robert Scoble hidden? No. So, YES there's HUGE potential locked up in the FF database that isn't yet available to us. - Robert Scoble
Robert, we are very much aware that FF needs a lot more work (it's a young product), and that not everyone "gets" it right away. We are definitely working on making it more intuitive and approachable. That said, the blog post you linked two was written last month, and activity on FF has grown about 3x in that time :) - Paul Buchheit
FF is very confusing - People who don't use many web2.0-sites can't profit from the unification of your web-presences. Using FF just for the coments is simply not appealing enough for the mainstream user. - sdfx
Alex: You are right the intentional personal sharing is much more valuable to them but that makes it that much harder for the unintentional shared content. it makes FF just that more harder to understand. I know they are working on this little problem of FF, and I'm sure it will get fixed but I also know they will have to wait and see attitude!! - Paul
Paul: awesome. I think the reason you are getting this feedback is cause you've built something that has huge value already, it's just frustrating for those of us who are being FriendFeed advocates because we don't have the right tools to convert other people into FriendFeed lovers too. For those who don't know who Paul Buchheit is, he's one of the co-founders of FriendFeed. I'm happy it's growing, but it could grow a lot faster if we had a few more tools to show people the value locked up in FriendFeed. - Robert Scoble
I use them both (Twitter and FriendFeed), and I actually see more and more people (among my friends) that use FF a lot more than before. I posted some little stuff that I wish FF to add (here: http://friendfeed.com/e...) but those are really simple changes compared to what you ask for Robert :-) - Orli Yakuel
It's two things for me: 1, Twitter gives me all the info I have time to digest and 2, to make full use of FF I'll need to sub to all the people I'm linked to elsewhere. Did I mention time was an issue? - Rod Nicolson
While the room feature is a step in the right direction, we need to be able to create filters, that are accessible easily and are nondestructive to the main page. Perhaps Like Gmail, we could see all of the stuff at once, or just one filter at a time. In this case I'd have one for tech luminaries that post a lot, and people I really know. - Elliott Plack
FF is a great way of aggregating al my feeds, and I love it for that. If all my friends were on it rather than just Facebook, then they'd find out more about me, because I don't just post to Facebook. Why should they have to get a signon and subscribe to a dozen different services just because that's how I chose to publish my content? - Neil Barnwell from twhirl
What would be great desktop clients for FF? Thoughts? - Prakash
Robert, I read your comment on the blog. Re #2 and #5 - I agree that tracking topics is especially important on FF. I personally don't want IM notifications and all that - I want a pure FF interface play. I played with some ideas a while ago, see http://ffapps.com/stickys... - it doesn't take into consideration min number of likes or anything like that, but this is how I personally think FF should approach the need for real-time tracking. - Aviv from ffreader
Robert, it's all because of the user base and the ease of use, I'm guessing. I use Plaxo more than FF. And really, use Twitter more than 10x more than either of them. Not just for making updates, but to get updates from others, headline relays, etc. I use BrightKite and sometimes Twitterfone or Jott when I'm sending an update on the go, but they have value for me precisely because they all feed Twitter. Pownce arguably outperforms Twitter in terms of flexibility and reliability, but who uses that much? - mark zero (Jason)
@aviv, is this thing works? http://ffreader.com/ or just for you because you built it? - Orli Yakuel
The comments by Cyndy Aleo-Carreira are pretty apt actually; it is actually irritating to see information repeated; i don't like the reordering either; and discussions stripped from the blogs onto itself is understandably annoying to several people. - Parth Awasthi
Since it is a lifestreaming application I believe most people use FriendFeed as a secondary application to Twitter. Also I think it would do alot better if the FriendFeed-is-Clunky-on-Twhirl issue would be fixed. For example, half way through writing those two sentences Twhirl updated the FF stream and everything I typed was lost. I almost said screw it and just didn't comment, but... more... - william douglas watson from twhirl
FF is my all-in-one Web 2.0 Solution and there are enough excellent desktop clients - FF is my new center to the world! ;-) - Dieter Schwarz from Alert Thingy
Orli - it does and is currently being tested before ship day. - Aviv from ffreader
The complaints that FF is too complicated are perfectly valid for a lot of people. Something like FF is geared towards the early adopter, those already on a mutlitude of other services and are looking to pull it all together in to one melting pot with comments. Joe Public doesn't work, think or behave like this - many just want a simple messaging system which is why Twitter clicks and... more... - Colin Walker
Aviv, will be really glad to test it! Robert, take a look at this: http://ffreader.com/ - Orli Yakuel
Scoble: I've not built this, this is not Paul Bucheit. I just know that some of this is coming it has to because if it didn't this wouldn't grow. I also know that people will have there problems just like DIGG people didn't like Digg because it had it's own little problem and you see how many flock to be over there!! - Paul
having fun rather than using social networking as a serious discussion tool. We need a change of mindset or to just accept that fact that different services will attract different people and ne'er the twain shall meet. A service has to identify its target audience and then fully understand it, providing those features that audience demands rather than trying to convince those outside of... more... - Colin Walker
Orli: I can't log into ffreader.com. I'm using Firefox 3.0 RC1. - Robert Scoble
It's like I'm living in a bizarro universe here. FF is dead simple to me - and was right off the bat. You add services, you add friends and then watch and participate. Pretty easy to me. I also don't know why people bring up twitter all the time when talking about FF. I don't see them as remotely similar or in any kind of competition. They're two apps that have a similar "audience" but that's it. Two different purposes and needs fulfilled. I'm baffled by some of the responses here. - Vince DeGeorge
Cyvros/fyc: I am sure they are going to fix the commenting problem. They probably hear about that everyday they check there emails or watch the FF scroll up and down. I also know that the fixed width is not so bad once you understand that it's to show a comment or a link!! I understand how frustrating it can be and can't wait for the changes that are inevitable because without Change there is no community!! - Paul
Vince: Twitter and FriendFeed are joined at the hip for me. I see them as different things, too, but I'd like to see FriendFeed adopt a few of the things that Twitter showed the world first. IM integration for one. Track for two. SMS capability for three (er, and a mobile client). - Robert Scoble
Vince: I say you've hit the nail on it's head with Twitter and FF, You can't possibly do this type of commenting and discussion with Twitter!! Twitter only allows 150 characters!! - Paul
robert, FF is growing. it's growth in the past couple weeks is outstanding. you aren't going to get everyone to use it though. and you really should stop comparing it to twitter. because it's fundamentally different. twitter is a microblogging service. it's where we go to post things that are quick, easy, and brief. FF is a social media aggregation (and hopefully re-aggregation) service. they are both important tools and their growth should happen together. and that's happening. be patient and positive. - Fred Wilson
FriendFeed needs a better commenting system ie Disqus. I have to confess I joined and then didn't use it for a while. Now I am totally hooked. I think some people try it and leave before they truly understand it. It's up to us to convince everyone to stay. - Michael McGimpsey
@vdegeorge I totally agree. I found FF completely simple to set up. I just keep adding my feeds until I run out, and give people my FF URL. They don't even have to actually subscribe if they don't want to. It's perfect. Of course, Twitter updates go into it, so they don't need to go to Twitter to see them, or Facebook, or Flickr, or my blog. In fact, I'm not even that bothered about the conversation functionality, which does mess the homepage up a bit, I just want to publish my content so people can see it. - Neil Barnwell from twhirl
This is in fact strange; I am not a twitter user, but I am a FriendFeed user. I really like FriendFeed far better then Twitter. And the community part here in FriendFeed is what makes me coming back and check out what is going on. Twitter has too much noise for me... - Joao
Fred Wilson: patience? Patience? Heheh. Good point. We all want it and we want it now. I don't see where I'm comparing it to Twitter, although, to tell you the truth, if it added a few things it could get me to switch even more of my usage away from Twitter. Twitter is doing that on its own, though, by going down so often. I know FriendFeed wants to be different than Twitter, but it has enough similarities that it begs for a few more. - Robert Scoble
Part of the thing with whether FF will take off mainstream or not is based on how people want to use it. I think the discussion thing that we're all into here is a mainly geeky tech-person thing to be into (and proud of it!) but my Mom isn't going to bother. However, if like me you're mainly bothered about your friends seeing your new Flickr photos even though they're not personally on Flickr, then it's got mainstream appeal. I mean, people don't even have to actually subscribe to FF to see my updates. - Neil Barnwell from twhirl
Robert - you keep talking about how you need and like the noise. I guess some people prefer the signal... - jeremy ettinghausen
jeremy: you missunderstand what I'm saying. It's pretty clear you aren't reading what I'm saying. +I+ don't mind the noise. I can deal quite well with FriendFeed how it is. That's not the point. The point is that I'm trying to get other people into FriendFeed. They DO NOT deal with noise as well as I do. They want far better tools to remove noise (remove Scoble is just one of those tools). I want more people here, to get even more noise, but to do that we've gotta have better tools. The tools are for THEM. - Robert Scoble
Jeremy: That's a good point. The feeds are the signal (Flickr, Twitter etc) and the FF comments are the noise, as far as I'm concerned. However the comments are the feedback, so depending on your point of view, they're arguably more interesting to the originator. - Neil Barnwell from twhirl
Fred Wilson: where in this thread did I compare FriendFeed to Twitter. I went back and reread everything I've written about this and I don't get why you are saying I'm doing that? Just because I want IM/XMPP? Is that a Twitter exclusive feature that no other "live web" service should have? - Robert Scoble
Neil: to me comments (and likes, which are just really a different kind of comment) are the signal that the original post or tweet or photo, etc isn't noise and is worth paying attention to. - Robert Scoble
robert, i am not talking about this thread, i, like many people, follow what you say and do. it's the entirety of your stance on FF and Twitter that I am talking about. but that's not really the point i am making. FF is an amazing service. so is Twitter. and i believe they are both going to get better and better, and easier and easier to use. - Fred Wilson
I think a bare-bones FF platform might serve it better in the long-run, since it will undoubtedly result in a bunch of third-party products and add-ons that enhance (or even finally enable) the FF experience for specific audiences or purposes (meme-tracking, desktop photo browsers, etc.). Either way, I think right now we're not seeing much innovation from third-parties beyond basic FF... more... - Aviv from ffreader
one of the lessons from Twitter and other services we invest in is if you let the activity happen outside of the web service (via the API and other things), you actually get more users back to the web service itself. so that's why I am so interested in getting these discussions pumped elsewhere, like my blog via disqus (when the discussion is about a blog post i wrote). if that happens, then FF becomes even more relevant, more important, more useful, and more used. - Fred Wilson
Scoble: Which is a perfect illustration of my point - people want different things out of FF, and we all have our own terminology. For you "noise" means something different to me. Of course, comments on my own FF entries isn't noise, it's "feedback", and that's different :). Anyway, when it comes to "FF isn't taking off", I think it could be a target market issue. I'd say FF has more... more... - Neil Barnwell from twhirl
I'm going out on a limb here - the reason people don't understand FF is because no-one has really defined it yet. Egs: If I saw it for the first time and saw a thread with 50 replies, I'd think it was like a forum. If I only saw lists of feeds I could subscribe to, I'd see an aggregator or feedreader. Seeing an item rise to top when comments were left, I'd think it was like digg, etc. I'd want to know the implications and results of using it in order to be more interested. - Paul Short
>>For you "noise" means something different to me. Here's a definition: NOISE: you talking about lunch. SIGNAL: me talking about lunch. Heheh. - Robert Scoble
>>so that's why I am so interested in getting these discussions pumped elsewhere, like my blog via disqus. Fred: I am totally in agreement here. It's one reason why I put the FriendFeed widget on my own blog (and am evaluating other schemes to integrate comments here and there). - Robert Scoble
@Paul Short - good point. Is FF trying to be too many things to too many people and is this why it doesn't appeal? The information on the About page is minimal and, whilst it conveys what FF is about at its core level, the way the service moves on is determined by the way it is used. I have no doubt that FF would be a completely different animal if it were populated by a different set of people rather than the usual suspects we find here. - Colin Walker
Colin: We agree. I still maintain it's a target audience issue. The people using it will make it what it is. This is exactly what happened to Twitter. It started as "answering one simple question: 'what are you doing?'" and turned into a messaging/communication system by virtue of the way people used it. The same will happen to FF over time. I'm using it in a totally different way to... more... - Neil Barnwell from twhirl
dying already? I thought it will get the necessary traction and kill socialthing before it gets launched. - Palin Ningthoujam
Palin: I'm not using Socialthing, am I? :-) - Robert Scoble
SocialThing is pretty much dead in the water anyway. Scaling back on services supported, too long in closed beta, not supporting the most popular web browser - all bad decisions which caused it to get left behind. - Colin Walker
As compared to Twitter, I get to see more meaningful conversations here in FF (no word limit.. yay!). It's more difficult to follow conversations in Twitter too even with those 3rd party tools like: Quotably etc, and I think I get to socialise with more people on FF. But I agree that it's difficult to sell the concept of FF to friends.. It's either you get it, or not. - Winston Teo
@Winston, there is a word limit it's just significantly higher that's all. - Colin Walker
@scoble: In http://secondbrain.com we have a different approach to aggregation.We organize all the content into personal content libraries where it can be browsed by tags and remixed into collections among other things. - Lars Teigen
@Scoble - I *totally* agree with you. FriendFeed adoption rate is impacted by lack of end-user tools to manage the frenzy of information aggregated in FF. For example, when I scrolled down to "catch up" this morning, I was notice this 1 post had over 97 comments! Holy crap that's way too much information. *Sigh*. This application is geared towards users that have a high capacity for information and can navigate a complex weave of conversations, posts, photos, blogs & other social media widget outputs! - Susan Beebe
I think FF only starts making sense once you get a nice, active network of friends. It's the conversation that makes FF interesting to me. Without it I might not be here. - Benjamin Golub
Susan: You're totally right, unless it's not the comments you want. If you just want to use FF as a content aggregation tool though, you lose the "noise" that is the comments. - Neil Barnwell from twhirl
The Comments is my *favorite* feature! but this is where most users would give me the deer-in-the-headlights look and close the application - Susan Beebe
Susan: Which goes back to my point (buried in the previous comments :)) that it depends on what people want it for. People who glaze over at the comments might not want it for that. - Neil Barnwell from twhirl
In my opinion, FF needs to focus on the Feed. Think of the current web UI as a "default" presentation of the Feed that underlies it. This means, make the API the most capable API possible; even at the expense of the UI. Things like import, integration, automatic creation of Imaginary Friends, etc. *Other* people will innovate on the UI, if the API is at least as capable as friendfeed.com is. When I import a new service, I would like to carry my network of friends from that service into FF, creating... - Kenneth LeFebvre
...Imaginary Friends as necessary, to keep my network complete. Give me the ability to merge Imaginary Friends, so I can manually make the connections across networks. Give me two-way participation from FF back to all those other networks, and I will use FF as my client for everything. ...just my 2¢... :) - Kenneth LeFebvre
Neil - true. Need a way to "hide" comments as well perhaps for those users who don't want to see them. I will *not* be in that use case! ;-) - Susan Beebe
At the risk of repeating: I think that FriendFeed is one of those tools designed for Mavens, Connectors, and Salespeople (i.e. Tipping Point concepts). Gather and discuss info, form opinions and ideas, crystallize thinking. Is it the best tool for broadcasting back out to the world? Don't know, maybe that's where Twitter/Pownce/Jaiku belong. - Mark Dykeman
@Paul B It was written last month, but the increase in traffic over that month has made the points I made in my post even more obvious. More activity doesn't fix the problems; it only makes them more apparent. It's the main reason why I don't follow Robert, but pick him up on occasion as FOAF. He shares something. Then odds are Louis shares it, or Duncan shares it. Then Corvida shares it and Diggs it. Sarah Perez shares it. Then maybe Steven Hodson shares it. - Cyndy
taking off with early early adopters or early adopters? This seems a tad premature. Twitter is 2 years old...it didn't take off until..what.. a year into it? year and a half? a month ago? - Bwana ☠
@Bwana Twitter is 2 years old, uses a much less "early adopter" mentality for its premise (messaging vs. aggregating), and, well, isn't doing so hot at the limited amount of "taking off" that it's doing. - Cyndy
Is it just me is or are aggregators like FF not going far enough in aggregating? I want to comment to a blog post fed here and have the comment go back on the blog. I want to frigging import my twitter followers/ees into friendfeed without manually creating an imaginary friend for each one that isn't on FF yet. I want to go to one place and not have to worry that i'm missing some part of a conversation. FF is aggregating, it's more of a window on different pieces of different fractured conversations. - S. Charles Balazs
Being in the minority (e.g. not in the Internet / Web industries or one who's presence is across a multitude of services), I came to FF due to the aggregation aspect. I don't have much to aggregate (I only have three services connected), but I totally grooved on the commenting and interaction aspect of the service. I found FF to be quite intuitive and the sharing of so many "tidbits"... more... - JA Castillo
@Bwana - I was just thinking the same thing. @Robert - Not taking off the way Twitter did? Twitter really just hit its inflection point in March of this year. Let's look at where Twitter was at this time in its life to get an apples-to-apples comparison. - Hutch Carpenter
Clay Shirky nails it in the WSJ: "It’s almost universally the case with social software that the software that launches with the fewest features is the stuff that takes off...nobody wants a door with 37 handles. Twitter has six features, and it launched with only one. A brutally simple mental model of the software that’s shared by all users turns out to be a better predictor of adoption...than a completely crazy collection of features that ends up being slightly different for every user." - Michael Nielsen
Michael- but by that logic FriendFeed should be huge and Facebook should've flopped... - Mike
wow this entry has ganied a lot of comments- 90++ , a harvest of users thoughts for FF :)- - Peter Dawson
Have to agree with Hutch. It took Twitter a year to get beyond the techies and early adopters. A couple of weeks in the bigger spotlight doesn't determine whether FriendFeed will make it or break it. Give it a chance. I'm placing my chips on it. - Robert Sanzalone
Reasons -- too much info flowing in; hard to figure out. Twitter is about as basic as it gets. The Ipod of IM. - Charles Barthold
Mike - Everyone I know described Facebook the same way early on: "It's a way of connecting and keeping up with your friends". I've never heard two people give the same explanation for FF. "It's like Twitter, but with longer tweets". "It's like Twitter, but with other stuff." "No, it's an aggregator for information!" There's no shared mental model, and so the network effects are much weaker than Facebook. - Michael Nielsen
FF's complexity (which is really elegant simplicity to those who get it) is its greatest asset. FF exposes the Z axis in an otherwise XY web. If that were represented visually on FF (as a toggle?), more noobs would adopt - more topics would appear, more friends, more feeds, more goodness. - Noah Carter
FF doesn't seem complex to me, but it does take a bit of time at first to see what one can get out of it. FF seems to be different things to different people - but that's one of the things I like about it. It's useful in more than one way. Aside from the echo effect, the posted link doesn't seem to have much in the way of good criticism. People keep complaining about noise; that's what the hide feature is for. - Tanath
I fully admit that I tried out FriendFeed for a day and quit. It initially wasn't easy for me to pick it up. But, I kept hearing about it on Twitter and gave it another try. I now use FriendFeed much more than Twitter. - Patrick
The thing with Twitter is that peeps can just post and answer any echoes back, it's low intensity. FF however, requires the user to be a bit more ballsy, if you like. To get the most out of it, you have to be prepared to chime in, post and have a debate or convo with a multitude of people you've almost never met. The two are very different. - Sally Church
I like Sally's thinking. I've often thought Twitter is for all people comfortable with chatting/instant messaging. Friendfeed seems geared more towards the type of people who'd post in forums or leave comments on blogs (a smaller group). However, I don't really have a sense for what % of FriendFeed users are voyeurs or what its potential is with people who'd like to view it all (even the conversation threads) without participating. - Robert Seidman
@Parth Thank you, and I agree. Love that it's generated 100 comments, though. ;) @Mark Dykeman I think you have the core demographic nailed there. @Robert I love forums, but forums are WAY more organized and have nowhere near the duplication as FF does. - Cyndy
Feature request - Place a # next to each comment so I can refer back to # x comment above. This is a standard feature on many blogs' comments. This post with over 100 comments in reply is a perfect use case to justify this feature!! - Susan Beebe
Susan: that's called anchors :) http://www.w3.org/TR... - directeur
Main reason I use it: condensing all my feeds into one spot, both those I read and those I produce. Main gripe: no way to quickly highlight what I haven't seen. - xero
Another feature request - Let me subscript my friend's tweet only(not including flickr etc). This can be done by `Imaginary friend` but it would be more useful with one-click feature. - satoko
Steve Rubel
Steve Rubel
"Sharing is for sissies." http://www.baselinemag.com/c...
June 2, 2008 from Twitter - Comment - Share
Just when I start thinking that my company is behind in the collaboration game -- (jabber and a wiki as our 2 main tools) -- I read an article like this and become happy again. We may be behind, but we're ahead of most. - Jeremy Felt
Good read. I was expecting mention of acrobat.com - Andrew Smith
Nathaniel Payne
Nathaniel Payne
All this misguided Twitter hate and FriendFeed love is really making me annoyed at the overzealous nature of the inclusionary FriendFeed community. Going back to Twitter, where my friends are.
May 30, 2008 - Comment - Share
Twitter hate comes from the service being 1/3 down right now. FriendFeed love comes from having a service that's not gone down on us and is always fast and responsive. I just clicked on my replies tab and it took 23 seconds to appear on Twitter. Here? Always very fast. - Robert Scoble
4 more comments
No one said you had to leave your friends. I have friends in both services - Shey, Jamaican of FF
Robert, how many users has FF? How many has Twitter? Now how many FF users have 1000+ followers/friends? How many does Twitter have? Without knowing all of the above (and more), you can't simple say "Oh FF is always up and Twitter isn't" and expect that to mean that FF has bullet-proof architecture. - Ian Betteridge
Ian: Twitter was down when it was a far smaller service than FriendFeed is. - Robert Scoble
Robert, I'm not saying that FF isn't better. I'm saying that at this point, you can't draw the conclusion that it can scale to the current size of Twitter. Without some solid figures (and preferably some knowledge of the actual architecture) it's unwise even to guess. - Ian Betteridge
I hope it is just Twitter frustration. FriendFeed is not a messaging system either DUH!! - DC Crowley
ian kennedy
ian kennedy
FriendFeed Needs Trackback - http://everwas.com/2008...
May 29, 2008 from everwas - Comment - Share
I would like something that makes Trackback between sites as easy & FAST as the "like" or "comment" button on FriendFeed. - Mitchell Tsai
5 more comments
i totally agree. as does tumblr. - william douglas watson from twhirl
I'd note that when I've been discussing Disqus I've been arguing for Trackback support as you are Ian (for similar reasons), although I'd never thought of it for FF before so its got me thinking. - Duncan Riley
Agreed. I am spending too much time flipping back and forth between apps trying to follow convos. Even when I am starting from GReader... - Elizabeth Albrycht
My comment from the site: "If FriendFeed had trackbacks this post would have quite a few comments. As is, it looks like no one has even read it. As for my opinion about the issue, I think allowing discussion everywhere can only be a good thing. This is how you build a community. And we all know that community is what makes or breaks any site, most especially in the user driven web2.0... more... - william douglas watson from twhirl
Put this on your blog too Ian ... repasting here --> I think Ian's point is that trackback as a concept could be expanded. Become the compromise between centralized and decentralized comments. If you fire a 'trackback' the comments in your post ... get 'auto' injected to the trackback target? Basically a way to have a bit more control of when comments push into an originating post (and... more... - Tim Bauer
thanks for the comments everyone, looks like this kicked off a good discussion! - ian kennedy
leigh himel
leigh himel
Twitter taunted me with that older button only to have it not work. This is getting truly annoying.
May 29, 2008 from Twitter - Comment - Share
I think we just need to start getting used to this wonderful new update. :) - Steve Spalding
l0ckergn0me
l0ckergn0me
1011101 00110 010110100 0010 00001100. Know what I mean?
May 27, 2008 from Twitter - Comment - Share
This doesn't mean anything... am I missing something? - Pat Hawks
5 more comments
having a binary moment there Chris? - Susan Beebe
lol. Did you say KO? :) - shaun mclane
0110110101100101011000010110111001101001011011100110011101101100011001010111001101110011 - Alan Cheslow
Zeroes and Ones will take us there...lol. - Iain Baker
LOL @Alan Cheslow. I couldn't agree more. I ran it through. It is indeed "meaningless." On that note,... more... - Jacob Nahin
@Simon - Hah... both of us, apparently :-) - Alan Cheslow
Kevin Fox
Kevin Fox
The nature of FriendFeed is that you start to think that the world is like you, because your friends shape your FF world. I think the FF world is full of Obama supporters, and other people thing it's full of Twitterers. Pick your friends wisely because they define your FF.
May 28, 2008 - Comment - Share
In other words, when you complain about the content of FriendFeed, you're really complaining about your choice of friends. ;-) (the wink means I'm half-kidding. Well, 46% kidding anyhow.) - Kevin Fox
23 more comments
Well put. I read an article that i believe was posted by a friend of yours Kevin, and it talked about how FriendFeed was all Twitter and only existed for Twitter. I was reading it and thinking - yeah, there is some Twitter in the mix, but if Twitter stopped being supported I doubt I would even notice. - Rachel Lea Fox
i caught myself thinking that last night. i was like, wow, everyone on here is for obama, too. and then i was like, wait a minute... - edythe
I refuse to take responsibility. I blame my friends. - Cyrus Lendvay
Scoble says "you are who you follow". It's no surprise that most of us want to be surrounded by and influenced by people who agree with us and like the same things we do. - Louis Gray
I have noticed that the people I follow and the people who follow me are all universally smart, interesting, and good-looking. - ha3rvey (needs soup)
thats why i surround myself with people i know will generate good content - Tyler Gillies
I prefer "you are what you post" -- but Scoble may be right - Brian Sullivan
I dont blame anybody now, "Hide" feature is at my rescue!! :) - Jigar Mehta
hee. - edythe
@ha3rvey - right back at ya! - Hutch Carpenter
"if everybody thinks the same thing then no one is thinking" the Internet allows us to essentially create an individual channell customized to our beliefs and reinforcing them along the way. In a way it is the inverse result of Marx's thoughts the social cphesion will be lost be specialization. - RAPatton
Subscribing* to people you disagree with may broaden the horizon. (*Subscribe, not befriend, right? The interface doesn't seem to talk about a friend status, despite the site's title...) - Philipp Lenssen
@Philipp,there is the "friend of" status - Tyler Gillies
Hey, we're ALL friends here, no? You can tell from the lack of public flames. - Slippy "WildBeard" Lane
Besides, "thepostsandsocialnetworkingpresencesofpeopleIfindinterestingandthepeopletheyfindinterestingfeed.com" doesn't trip off the tongue so easily. - Slippy "WildBeard" Lane
or you could just friend everyone! - Stefan Hayden
i flame people publically on the "everyone" channel - Tyler Gillies
"you are what you post; "you are who you follow"... "character is destiny." - edythe
character is destiny? - Tyler Gillies from twhirl
I think it is fascinating that friendfeed is a unique experience for everybody. Makes it such a compelling challenge from a developer's perspective, I presume. - David Vasileff
this is one reason I like my collection of delicious friends - they are less like each other than I would expect - Edward Vielmetti
also, my friendfeed feed is full of friends talking about friendfeed. cut it with the self-reference people, go out and do something. - Edward Vielmetti
remember when all people talked about was blogging... oh wait.. - Stefan Hayden
Actually 'choosing your friends carefully' is perfectly valid in any network or even life. Phew. - bvs
Robert Scoble
Robert Scoble
Scoble has a productivity problem - http://scobleizer.com/2008...
May 27, 2008 from Scobleizer -- Tech geek... - Comment - Share
I'd love to know how you think I should answer Bob Bly's letter in this post. - Robert Scoble
58 more comments
there is productivity and then there is productivity. It depends on where you are standing, and how you define it. I always had a bad conscience when checking out Twitter, Flickr or Facebook. But not anymore. I have gathered so much knowledge about social networks. I thought I was being procrastinating, but I was being productive all the time. Now when considering something I say, to scoble or not to scoble :-) - Baard @ Pixum
i don't get this discussion. Scoble does all the stuff he does cause it's his job. It's like asking a dude who reviews books if all that book reading is a time waster. - Stan Schroeder from twhirl
Stan: I was doing it long before it was my job. I've been playing with new things ever since I helped unbox an Apple II in my Jr. High in 1977. - Robert Scoble
we are doing all of these stuff because we like to do. - ahmet bulent
damn twhirl. Anyway, @Scoble: then it was your hobby. Same thing. A guy who's not interested in all this stuff should simply pick and choose what he likes and forget about the rest - Stan Schroeder from twhirl
Totally agree to the meaning of goals and motivation. That's why people are different and everyone is unique. - Carsten R from Alert Thingy
Stan: I think it goes deeper than that. People who aren't looking to learn new things bug me for some reason. It's like they are celebrating their ignorance and their willingness to stay ignorant. I had a father-in-law who loved telling me he never touched a computer and never would. I found that fascinating. - Robert Scoble
Its not his (scobles) job unless he wants it to be his job. I think in Bobs case he might be unproductive if he was engaging in all those activities that Scoble spends his time on. It all depends on what you want to get out of your day/life? It all depends on who you are and what you do. I thin what bob is asking might apply to him or people who are not directly ingrained in creating technology. - Akshay Dodeja
I'll give you a simple analogy. Let's imagine that you're a car fanatic. You tweak your car every day, and it goes faster. You get to work at least 10 minutes faster each day, however, all the tweaking you do takes many hours of your time. A regular guy just sits in his car and drives, and goes to the mechanic when something goes wrong. Who's right and who's wrong here? No one, I say. - Stan Schroeder from twhirl
I've been answering this question a lot lately. Why is twitter better than my message board? Why not just use email? Who has time for that stuff? In my opinion, the fact that they are asking is just another sign that it is becoming more accepted. When my 85 year old grandmother knows what Facebook is, and why my 65 year old mom living in BFE knows what MySpace is, that is the definition of mainstream. - Robert Peterson
Btw, the nickname i sometimes use, "frantic" comes from my frantic desire to learn everything there is to know about a topic (i get this 2 times per week at least). So I get where you're coming from. But, not everyone is like that. - Stan Schroeder from twhirl
Stan: I understand that, but that's not what I'm talking about. I drive a car and don't care about tinkering with it, taking it apart, and all that, but I'm not going to celebrate my ignorance of it. If someone says "hey, here's a way to get more enjoyment out of your car" I'll at least listen and see if it interests me. Even if it doesn't, I'm not going to celebrate the fact that I'm ignorant. Like "I'll never see why we need Hybrid cars, my Hummer works just fine." - Robert Scoble
Good analogy, Stan. Although if you are tweaking your car, most likely you enjoy doing that. Even though you are loosing "productivity time" while tweaking you are expanding your knowledge. That knowledge has a worth to you as a car tweaker and would be worth nothing to another person. As you said tho no one is right or wrong. Just depends on how you look at it :) - Akshay Dodeja
Stan, you're analogy is great. - Timothy Neilen
@Scoble: Well, some people just go through life without knowing anything about anything. Don't think you can change that, either (;. - Stan Schroeder from twhirl
This is very normal for those who did not discover the potential of social networks, or whether the same technology. I live here and in Latin America is very common that everyone do the same question as Bob, but you have to have a lot of patience to explain the possibilities that the experience provides. The examples you gave were very good to try to explain to Bob and the list can continue. - Cesar Sanchez
Stan: a more accurate analogy is I come over with my new car that has GPS and a navigation system and you run on and on about how you'll never own a car with a GPS or a navigation system. I just don't like hanging around people like that. I guess we have Amish who still drive around in horse and carriage for a reason, though, but I won't choose to hang around with them, sorry if that makes me a jerk. I just don't like people who celebrate remaining in the past. - Robert Scoble
@Scoble: those same people who run on and on about not trying new things will buy those same things when they read it in the newspapers. Capitalism: replacing innovative thinking since 19th century. - Stan Schroeder from twhirl
I don't think I can improve on the original post (at all) but I follow these things to pursue my ambitions. It's that simple. And my ambitions (video game design) require that I stay current with the times. I just happen to have a blast doing it. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to find out what Flickr is. - Avery Tingle
Bob is sadly very typical in my limited experience. It's like some people are proud of being and remaining ignorant. They have no curiousity and are stuck in their old ways. I'm a scientist; I love finding new things and simply cannot fathom why other people aren't equally fascinated. - Sally Church
Robert, i think you are being untypically nasty to good old BOB BLY. by the end of your long blog post you might of well called him a beer drinking TV watching ignorant slob. he says: -------"Can you help an old guy from the old school understand what he’s missing? - P.S. Your column is well written and there are obviously a legion of people who get all this stuff. I’d like to see if I could become one of them or at least understand what all the fuss is about."------- i don't think you answered him... - djp
Your post says it all. Thanks. My experience as someone coming from the non-tech world is that I need to defend the amount of time I spend in social networking on a daily basis. As an artist, I see this is THE new medium, not sure how it will manifest new work but very sure this is it. And that excites me and keeps me listening, talking when I think I have something to contribute, but present most days. Some of my friends don't get it and most don't participate. Oh well. More will be revealed. ;-) - Mary Anne Davis
djp72: fair enough. So, put yourself into my shoes. How would you answer it? - Robert Scoble
i think you took it too personally when BOB BLY says "I don’t have any of it — for that matter, I don’t own a Blackberry, iPod, wireless laptop, or even a cell phone — and I get along fine without them."------- your rant doesn't actually prove your point, if i put myself in Bob's beer stained shoes for a second, i'm sure he's sitting there going "i was right.... this is all about nothing...." - djp
djp72: again. One more time. Answer the damn question then. How would you answer it? Stop attacking me and answer the question! - Robert Scoble
one last point Robert, imagine if Bob was your uncle, or old high school mate, or someone you knew, i'm sure you wouldn't end up being all sarcastic and calling him ignorant. i'm sure you'd take your time and explain and answer his questions... sorry for the long comment out of the blue, it just struck me as a tad sooky..... - djp
djp72: again with the attack. Actually, when people get all Luddite on me I usually just walk away because I've learned long ago that you'll never convince someone to join you by fighting with them. They usually come around and if they don't, well, there's that photo on my blog to remind you what happens eventually. I really wish you'd answer the question yourself. - Robert Scoble
Mary Ann: Well said, that sums up my experience with my biotech peers too - they just don't get it and I spend a lot of time explaining it to them, to little avail. You have to wait for them to get it and the penny to drop. - Sally Church
The letter was a bit weird coming from a guy who has as a url www.bly.com. A 3 letter .com url? sounds as though he is extremely wealthy or way ahead of the game to me! - Geoff
Mr. Bob points are perfectly valid, but the question is if Robert is the right person he should address them to. ;-) - Peter
It's not all about quantifiably productive experiences for everyone, in fact personal progress seems to come when people just do their thing, find their groove..... and if Bob prefers to find his groove without engaging with the Twitters and Flickrs of the world then I say - good luck, enjoy your free time (probably alot of it spent waiting for the post)....if on the otherhand like me... more... - Mia Walczak
Scoble, you write a blog that is read by thousands. You answered your own question! How would WE respond to Bob? HA! That is the very thing: that you can engage hundreds into a conversation about this topic. The idea that anyone has access to this discussion is revolutionary. If you wrote out your blog posts and sent it by mail... where would be the fun in that? Who would be able to read it? Who would be able to comment? - Alana Taylor
You get excited about the internet because you understand it's potential for COMMUNICATION. Phones, cameras, pictures, blogs, micro-blogs... these are all means for bringing people together. The World Wide Talk Show is what I recall you telling me. A man who doesn't use these tools must not be very interested in communication at all. The irony lies in the fact that he used the internet to ask you why the internet is special. I think he also answered HIS own question: COMMUNICATION. - Alana Taylor
Really good post Robert, and really interesting question originally from Bob. I get excited about the things that I write about because through some of them, we see glimpses of the future - and, it's fair to say, in some of them I see glimpses of future failures too. The thing is that without playing with this stuff, it's much harder to understand its implications. - Ian Betteridge
Geoff - Maybe Bob is ahead of the game. Maybe this was his tactic to get his name out and to be talked about. ;) heh. - Alana Taylor
Robert Scoble is a scout and explorer and he likes telling people what he finds. You need that kind of person in order to introduct and create change. Some people have a natural inclination to do that. - Mark Dykeman
I think you missed Bob's point here, Robert. He's not attacking your choices, but rather wanting to find out what could be in it for him. The alternative to not engaging in all the social stuff does not have to be getting a beer in front of the TV, it could just as well be writing a book. When I read the question I immediately thought of Don Knuth who is rarely (if ever) online, yet manages to write books and software that will have a long lasting impact. - Niklas Morberg
Niklas: no, sorry, you aren't a very careful reader. When someone says "It seems to me that all these things — Twitter, Facebook, iPhone, Flickr — are a thundering bore and an utter waste of time" that does NOT mean that the writer is wanting to find out what could be in it for him. It means he's already considered whether or not these things could be useful for him and has decided no. And, further, he's decided to denigrate those people who chose to use their time that way. - Robert Scoble
Robert Pirsig wrote a book about this wormhole called "Zen in the Art of Motorcycle Maintainence"... changed my life - Peter
if you do it for a living and it puts food on the table and you enjoy it who cares, it's about finding balance to enjoy your personal life too - Jason
A little historical context here: In late 2004 Bob Bly famously wrote a newsletter dissing the potential of blogging as a marketing & communications tool, mocking it, some would say. Great link bait and blog fodder. He then, surprise surprise, started a blog himself. Talk about built-in attention & controversy. Funny thing, he maintains that blog pretty actively to this day. I'd say he's planning to get on Facebook, Twitter etc. in about 2 weeks & just wants to make sure people are paying attention ;) - Elisa Camahort Page
Scoble: Did you know the Amish are way ahead-of-the-loop on solar panels. Almost every Amish house has a solar panel. It helps that they are frugal with power. - Mitchell Tsai
Geez, Robert, what a long winded way to answer a simple question! :-) The short answer is, "It's simply human to want to 1) know more, and 2) be known more." AWARENESS is the key. Without it, there would be no UNDERSTANDING. First comes self-awareness, which is what makes us human. Then comes awareness of others, which is what the web and social software enable in a very efficient way... more... - Lawrence Liu
I'd say: "Bob, 5 billion years have working to make this neat little box. Wanna peak inside?" - phil baumann
Thanks for the great article. Already added the MarsPhoenix Twitter feed and other related RSS feeds. - Bill Bittner
Not everyone wants to keep in touch with the latest technology. Some folks just want to sit on a stoop and watch traffic. I don't understand that but I respect their choice. - Morton Fox
I posted my comment to your blog, but here's a snippet: It all boils down to this: We must *master* our productivity tools (technology included) in order to maximize production of our quality work in a time manner. So how do you use technology to accomplish this? Are you an advanced user that has figured out how to organize, sort, filter and glean the best data from all your tools? The person who is best capable of using each tool with mastery, will achieve the highest productivity ratio. - Susan Beebe
Great post Robert whether Bly is real or not - people often miss that this is NOT about technology but about connections and learning and PEOPLE. Alas, the problem today for folks like you and I who just freakin love learning new stufff is that well -we have SO many opportunities from so many people thanks to the tech! Well said Lawrence!! - deb schultz
http://bly.com/blog/?p=333 that's the link to Bob's blog post about this very letter he sent you Robert. - James Dasher
Great post Scoble...keep going after the interesting conversations! - Mack D. Male
I *just* had a chance to read the actual article. I don't know Bly, but I couldn't disagree with him more. Your response was dead on. I think Bly has missed the point that these are just tools. I also think his response is like writing in to Car & Driver and telling them they have too many articles about automobiles. - ha3rvey (needs soup)
Defining a choice not to use (or more properly) _venerate_ networking tools as "ignorant" is part of the problem. You assume that everything happening in the world is happening in these environments. It is not. And if you really are sitting on a couch watching TV when you're not on Twitter, you ARE missing out. When I was off Twitter yesterday, I was eating ice cream with 5-year-old nieces reading them a story. and being wrestled to the ground by them. I hope your son can look forward to such memories. - Shelly Brisbin
It's the same old story over and over again. Some will fight against new technology (tools), kicking and screaming all the way. Others will adopt and improve. At some point the tools that make it will have been subsumed into mainstream and we'll laugh about the early resistance. Telephone, yes, and railroad... come to mind. Is social networkiing here to stay? Who knows? But why condemn it without trying it out? - Alex von Halem
Two things that have really stuck with me from this article over the past couple of days: "Whenever I am faced with a productivity problem I ask myself “what do I want to get out of life?”" which is damned good advice. It might seem selfish but I now think that you can't ask yourself this enough. Too many people go through life doing things they don't want to do just because they ask themselves the wrong questions. Start asking this one. - william douglas watson
The second thing which I find infinitely for powerful than the first: "The real thing I’ve been doing for more than eight years now is to try to arrange my life so that I have an interesting conversation every day with someone interesting." What an awesome life you have made Scoble. The fact that you have come to a point in your life that this is a feasible goal is just awesome. Wow. Thanks for the inspiration. - william douglas watson
I think my answer to Bob Bly would be this: 'I was a copywriter. Then, while following Robert Scoble's Microsoft blog, I found out about tablet pcs. And have since become a visual facilitator, earning approximately twenty times more per gig than I ever did as a copywriter. Social media is the most powerful learning tool I've ever dealt with.' (Thanks for turning me onto tablet pcs, Robert.) - Roy Blumenthal
To me it seems that Bob Bly just wants to hold on to the wistful memory of how things were...freeze time, so to speak. And no matter what you tell him and how you do it, it's not going to make an iota of a difference. What for him is waste of time, is for you a dive into worlds unknown. What for you is old school and ignorance, is for him blissful existence in a world as tangible as the cup of coffee (or tea) he holds. And never the twain shall meet. - Mansi Bhatia
Great discussion. I started to comment, but it got too long, so it wound up here: http://philcrissman.com/2008... - Phil Crissman
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