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Merredith Branscombe › Likes
No matter how many new features Zoho adds to its products, I will never use it because its the ugliest of all web office suites. Agree or disagree? http://www.zoho.com/index.html
Daniel Rowley, LPH™ and his dog P™, Kathy Fitch and 28 other people liked this
Sooooooo disagree. Google Docs? Butt-ass ugly. Zoho, much more functional and it looks like an ap! Love Zoho!
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
GE chose Zoho. Draw your own conclusions. Prefer MSO on this end, but that's just me
- LANjackal
Disagree. I agree it doesn't look very sexy, but it works and is free.
- Rutger Blom
Totally disagree. It's clean looking to me. And way better at integration that Google Docs. I can do so much more with Zoho. Best part? If you have a problem, it's usually fixed within a day. I'm *still* waiting for someone from Google to respond to an issue from 2 years ago.
- Admiral Anika
No that would be unfair since no one has gotten their hands on it yet. In any case, MS says the UI should be the same as Office's desktop apps. If that's the case, it's got my vote for sure
- LANjackal
from IM
... if they can pull it off while keeping the app responsive and snappy, that is
- LANjackal
from IM
wow, i completely disagree with you guys regarding microsoft office online...I feel like Microsoft have still not got the desktop version right, we're going to be years off anything half decent for the web app versions.
- Zee.
i just think its still full of bugs, hard to get what you actually want done done...if you check out Apple's iwork, that's much closer to a decent word processing app
- Zee.
I used to love Zoho, but then it started acting up a little -- some mysterious bugs, some revisions disappearing, some trouble accessing data -- and I gave up on it. This was probably a year and a half ago. Sounds like maybe those problems are fixed.
- Nathan Rein
Online Office Survey: http://bit.ly/BmPwk
- Mark Layton
Sorry wrong link. Try it again.
- Mark Layton
i have no problem with google docs
- Chris Heath
Yeah, same @Chris, but i agree its not the prettiest of apps
- Zee.
Zee: You definitely don't have to like MS Office, use what you want. But I'm curious as to exactly what "bugs" you're referring to. There are many criticisms of MS Office, but "buggy" isn't usually one of them. Could you elaborate?
- LANjackal
from IM
I vote for Office Web - don't write off almost 20 years of UI learnings too quickly.
- Daniel Lizio-Katzen
LAN sure, but am on my iPhone at the moment. Will respond properly when back on my comp
- Zee.
from iPhone
can someone name an ATTRACTIVE online office suite?I use Google Docs just by default. I admit Office 2010 intirigues but I don't expect much from MS.
- Leo Laporte
from BuddyFeed
I give GDocs props for its simple interface, at least
- LANjackal
from IM
Agree. Buzzword is nice, but has no desktop version.
- Zachary TG
Adobe AIR? *retches, vomits*
- LANjackal
from IM
Oh I know, I exorcised Gears from my PC earlier this year
- LANjackal
from IM
+1
- LANjackal
from IM
I prefer ThinkFree to either ZoHo or GoogleDocs. Better roundtrip w/MSFT, smarter featureset.
- Merredith Branscombe
I think Google Docs is the most straightforward, and integrates with my Google Apps. They need CRM and project management components, though. Zoho has a decent CRM but email integration has been promised but not delivered for a long, long time. Although much maligned, I still gravitate back to Entourage's project center for linking email, calendar events, tasks, files, etc. Will Office or Google add online CRM and project management first?
- Steve Wright
I like Zoho--it's good and fast for certain specific tasks. Makes it incredibly easy to deploy a simple db online quickly, for instance. I'm a fan.
- Kathy Fitch
I think the children's builiding blocks image is . . .. childish. Google Apps . . . stark.
- Jim Adams
Zoho is a real mixture of styles around a central theme, gproducts tend to do the same thing but its a lesser impact theme - definitely a google style to the apps and products. Zoho seems to try to achieve more style and miss, google is minimal but i suppose they can if part of the brand is the simplicity - whitespace as a brand guideline
- pjeedai
I wouldn't call Zoho ugly, or even cluttered. It feels like you are using Office imo. Can't wait for the upcoming Google Docs redesign though!
- Tomy Thomson
Damn! You hit the hammer right on the spot. Zoho is like a big rip-off of Google products. Although, I do have to say that it has been technically implemented well.
- Rohit
Zee - I happen to disagree. BUT, that's just me. That said, I'd love to hear your thoughts about how do you think it'd look better. Rodrigo / Zoho
- Rodrigo Vaca
Disagree!!! and disagree more. GDocs is amateur as far as UI is concerned; Zoho might not be "IT" but is it waaay better and have nice and more features than any other web-tools with this level of elegance
- Ashish Tiwari
If Zoho is the ugliest, what web office suite looks better? Definitely not Google Docs.
- Dusty Edenfield
@Dusty, i definitely think Google Docs looks better...but yeah, above all is Buzzword.com
- Zee.
Ok. Forgot about Buzzword. They've got it as far as design. How about features though? Last I checked they were behind Zoho.
- Dusty Edenfield
I prefer Zoho to all other office suites.
- Ivan Pavlov
Strongly Agree. ..though I've only used the 'Notes' feature.
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
disagree. I uses google docs because it's well connected with gmail. but I don't think Zoho is ugly.
- Orli Yakuel
I am used to using Google Docs, so I find that Zoho does not feel right to me. I almost think it is too cluttered. If I wanted all that I would just use Word (which I do regularly). Offisync really helps for a combo Word/gDocs user.
- Sean Brady
I totally agree.
- Vince DeGeorge
@Steve Wright, We just announced the Zoho CRM-Mail integration - http://bit.ly/1AS0th. Arvind / Zoho
- Arvind
Holden: I was merely referring to the design aspect. If you compare a few of Zoho's offerings on one side and Google Docs and Microsoft Office on the other, I think you might get the picture then. You are right that Zoho has done a lot with Google Gears than Google itself has, and that is something I already commended them for earlier, but my point is that there isn't much innovation from the UI part to enhance user experience, which is where Zoho lacks.
- Rohit
Totally disagree, Zoho is by far better than its competitors, Not only its brilliant interface, but also its various applications are amazing.
- Tardid
Everybody Knows: You can't be all things to all people. You can't do all things at once. You can't do all things equally well. You can't do all things better than everyone else. "You" applies to Zoho as well. Continue rocking "You"....
- Francis.K.Ruben
this is what you see when you login at zoho.com "You are logged into Zoho. You can select the service you need from the list below, or visit https://personal.zoho.com to start." what i understood/expected after looking at personal.zoho.com is a page like iGoogle or netvibes kinda page but the link redirected me to business,zoho.com which is nothing but viewing whole app in an iframe and...
more...
- naveen
I really didn't like the Zoho.com page it looks really amateur and i haven't seen a site where block heading center aligned and in a serif font, smaller than contents. Looks like some school kid designed the site. Blue ball like bullet points really SUCKS!!! Twitter and Facebook logos are as big as company logo and untitled press/customer testimonial column. Different fonts and very early 90's look
- naveen
LMAO @Naveen. Those products most certainly do not do the same thing as evidenced by their names. Planner is entirely different that Projects. That's like saying Notepad is the same as PowerPoint.
- Admiral Anika
disagree, Zoho is much better than Google Docs, just doesn't have the PR/name recognition of Google!
- Brian
from BuddyFeed
@LAMO what i'm trying to say is if they integrate all those Almost same but different apps as one it will be a killer and can give options to user to turn-on/off few features.
- naveen
I heard that some developer designed www.zoho.com not a designer though they have a lead designer who don't have any clue whats going on....
- naveen
update: lead designer + manager (who ever reviewed the design) = amateur
- naveen
@norak_ No tattoo is the new Tattoo!
Merredith Branscombe, John (a.k.a. dendroica) and chaz2b liked this
The real 'Dude' to appear at Lebowski Fest - http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html...
Merredith Branscombe, Peter Renshaw, Taylan Aydınlı and 9 other people liked this
Just another reason I love Seattle
- Muneer Mirza
from Bookmarklet
I'm so there. dude.
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
Quick summary of #crunchup: Twitter Twitter Search Search TechCrunch Twitter Twitter Tags Search Realtime Twitter Facebook Twitter.
Jonathan Fleming, Adam Cohen, Daniel Rowley and 20 other people liked this
You forgot Seesmic.
- Matt Ruiz
I heard: Twitter Facebook FriendFeed Other Twitter Facebook Twitter FriendFeed Twitter Other Other Twitter.
- Kevin Fox
Wow, Kevin, you're on it. My mistake.
- Louis Gray
you missed "stream"
- Allen Stern
Nice summary :-)
- Andy Bold
when I just hit the #crunchup hash tag, the search returned a few "view my sex tape" entries too, so it's got that going for it...
- Ken Gidley
You missed mob, too
- Michael Fidler
Yea, I was not that impressed.
- Wizetux
hahahah
- Bwana ☠
Wow, they mentioned Friendfeed? ::highfive::
- jcunwired
They better mention Friendfeed or one of the 'more influencial' guys might book outa there :)
- Charlie Anzman
It's amazing how many dozens - hundreds? - of people will subscribe to an inactive Twitter account.
Vezquex: God of FF, Ben Hanten, edythe and 2 other people liked this
RT @NickStarr Just great..now all the DJ's in town are going to be playing Thriller while all the drag queens dressed as Farrah dance to it.
Merredith Branscombe and Baard @ Pixum liked this
Demolition crew given just GPS coordinates destroys wrong house - http://www.wsbtv.com/news...
Misha, Felicia Yue, Dan Hsiao and 31 other people liked this
“I said, ‘What address did you have?’ and he said, ‘They sent me some GPS coordinates.’ I said, ‘Don’t you have an address?’ (and) he said, ‘Yes, my GPS coordinates led me right to this address here and this house was described,’”
- Gabe
from Bookmarklet
oops
- Imabug
Crew just back from serving in Afghanistan, perhaps.
- Richard Chen
nah, probably not the Taliban.
- Hayes Haugen
"whoa, whoa, whoa -- so the minus sign means it's *west* of the prime meridian?"
- Karim
"Officials reported that the house that should have been demolished is located in Islington and owned by one Arthur Dent."
- Karim
Apparently they didn't think to ask what side of the street the house was on.
- Gabe
Oh dear. Happy families. I wonder who will have to pay for that. Doh. GPS fail. (+Karim)
- Chris Loft
Wow, many a lawyer in the vicinity will now be able to eat well, and feed his/her family.
- ianf ⌘
So, the hyperspace bypass starts at Carroll County, Ga.
- ǝuǝƃnǝ
ADMINISTRIVIA: does anyone see the embedded picture <http://i.friendfeed.com/b9dd4cf...> above as anything but a placeholder? It appears once I go there, but not here.
- ianf ⌘
ianf: I see it.
- Gabe
Thanks, Well, I can't make it appear [Safari 3.2.1/ OSX 10.5.7]
- ianf ⌘
ianf: this sort of thing happens to me about once a month, too.
- Gabe
You think this could be cache conflict or something? But other pictures appear just fine.
- ianf ⌘
Fuck you, Nike. You make a commercial using a sport I know nothing about, and it’s so arresting that it pulls my heart like saltwater taffy and I spend the rest of the morning watching soccer videos. Football. Whatever. - http://buffering.tumblr.com/post...
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Tac Anderson, Rick Turoczy, carmen hill and Merredith Branscombe liked this
Oh my. P.S. I hate you for sharing this.
- Rick Turoczy
How did rap go from being the black CNN to the white UPN?
Kelly H and Merredith Branscombe liked this
Microsoft's Ozzie On His Company's Web Strategy - http://www.paidcontent.org/entry...
Björn Klose and Merredith Branscombe liked this
Ozzie is ALWAYS worth listening to.
- Chris Brogan
just for the record: I am a blogger who builds relationships w/ sources, does background research & writes original content. we do exist
Michael Calore, Brandon Mendelson, Andy Bold and 5 other people liked this
Well Marshall - you are a professional blogger - big difference! Plus you are in the top tier of writers online - hands down.
- Rex
I call that premium content and I'll be willing to pay for it. There is to much garbage and noise out there.
- Fabian De Simone
Marshall FTW! I agree totally. It's the only way to build your street cred.
- Bill Koslosky
Given this comment, who is also in Marshall's league, and who is not? We want names!
- Louis Gray
And Marshall, that's why I continue to read your work:-)
- Brandon Mendelson
With blogs, readers now have the luxury of picking and choosing their reporters based on journalistic values. It not only gives the internet a competitive upper hand over newspapers, it creates a kind of free market system to journalists. If journalists want to succeed, the quality of journalism is a factor -- unless the reader is just looking for writers that agree with their views. I'm excited for the future of journalism.
- Scott Loganbill
ok ok, also for the record: I am also a blogger who wishes we could afford the kind of very close editorial assistance newspapers have
Scott Loganbill, Merredith Branscombe and Miguel Caetano liked this
Malcom Gladwell today exquisitely shows us why "realtime" matters. And the ultimate vendication of Friendfeed, Robert Scoble and Louis Gray (and Gary V.) http://www.newyorker.com/reporti...
Nicholas James, Matt Thompson, Daniel Rowley and 25 other people liked this
To take the underdog's real strength you must destroy what you know and love and what other people think might be your strength. In my case, I've put far less effort into my blog in order to get into the real time web on friendfeed and Twitter. Now that the world is changing the strategy seems smart. Two years ago? I was called an idiot. Heck, Arrington said I needed an intervention last December.
- Robert Scoble
That's true, but now the fun begins. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Here's a better link, all on one page: http://www.newyorker.com/reporti...
- Nick in Manila
Cool
- Alex Hammer
great post...a bit long though. I love reading Malcom... The way he describes various phenomenon is simply intriguing
- Bhavesh
St. Joe's used full court press in the 60s to good effect: http://bit.ly/15Swxu
- Lou Clark
and an even better link: (printable/scalable) http://www.newyorker.com/reporti...
- Chris Heath
I love the smell of rumor-destruction in the morning.
Vladimir Prudnikov, Merredith Branscombe, Atul Arora and Yolanda liked this
Yeah, that's always fun! I refused to buy into the latest round of rumors. Didn't believe them.
- Robert Scoble
Are we talking about Apple buying Twitter? It actually makes a lot of sense.
- Fabian De Simone
Fabian: I could see the memo going out to employees after Apple buys Twitter: "Just because we own it doesn't mean you are allowed to use it." Apple is SSSOOO secretive they would never allow employees to be open on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Really can't see Apple buying Twitter. Apple doesn't do anything that doesn't fit into their business model. They are not in the habit of rushing out to buy kewl companies unless they have a specific need. Where in Apple's model does Twitter fit?
- Corey Marthaller
Robert: actually the way I see it, is that Twitter becomes the hub to centralize SMS messages from Iphones
- Fabian De Simone
it's for the new net tablet.....the itwit
- Matt Kramer
FriendFeed Blog: A whole new FriendFeed - http://blog.friendfeed.com/2009...
Matt Kaufman, Alex Hammer, Peter and 242 other people liked this
We launched!
- Bret Taylor
Nice. I like the Email/IM notification accordion the the home page. The people who stayed on legacy FriendFeed are going to feel this one.
- Mark Trapp
Un-like!
- YusufOzanTasdemir
Can we get an old.friendfeed.com
- Andrew Smith
Congrats!
- Stephen Mack
I so love these new features. I have been using the beta since it came about, and I used it instead of the regular, ugly Friendfeed. One problem, their is no accounts button, how do I change other information. That was one slight design flaw that needs to be fixed.
- Zachary TG
@Andrew Smith +1
- Hüseyin Mert
Awesome :)
- Ross Miller
At last !
- Luka
i don't want to use this. There must be alternative to use old FF
- Filiz Koyuncu
congrat's
- mike "glemak" dunn
Zachary: we updated the "settings" page ("settings" link below your name in the top right); everything should be in there now. Let us know if you notice anything missing.
- Tudor Bosman
horrible :S we want old FF
- Kaan Ukturk
There are quite a few user styles available if you're using Firefox and the Stylish extension. http://userstyles.org/styles...
- tiffany
Guys, you're doing a bad thing launching half-baked version without a notice. There's at least no imaginary friends and I can't export my subscriptions now (I've used FrF as RSS reader and have hundreds of them). That's not mentioning another little tweaks you've missed (i.e. service icons — even FaceBook got it right, they have service icons for imported entries and have no for their own status updates). You're ruining the whole experience of managing a lot of information.
- Juras Vetrau
It's awesome. I really appreciate http://friendfeed.com/setting.... Also, I don't want to be negative, but is the "live search" coming?
- Jérôme Flipo
WANT OLD FF? http://friendfeed.com/alpb...
- Alp
congrats! now back to "listening to your users" pls :)
- Phil Smirnov
please give back old friendfeed, this one looks bad
- Peter
Juras, I think there are one other % of FF users who feel the same. Same think happened to Facebook users. But we've to move on. Imaginary friends can be added as "feed". The lack of service icons AFAIK increased the generic participation (in Friendfeed). You can create filters for "service=" if it's necessary. I agree with you on the OPML part.
- Jérôme Flipo
Rock & Roll! Very happy with the interface. Thanks for listening to the considered opinions you have, and implementing fixes when necessary. You guys have done a fantastic job of keeping people informed of new changes.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
I still don't like it, but I still continue to using FF
- Kristian Salonen
Those who can't handle the real-time, press Q: RT will be disabled by default for your account (re-press Q for the flood).
- Jérôme Flipo
Juras: I'm pretty sure they've been letting everyone know about this for some time...Where have you been?
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
The settings to automatically post likes or comments to Twitter are missing.
- Pat Hawks
couldn't you just put the old FF to old.friendfeed.com or somewhere like that?
- Barış (beyn.org)
Bret, you SHOULD check this out. New realtime version has JavaScript errors can be observed in Firebug: http://i39.tinypic.com/33u64qp... Now, I got 93 error. I think you changed something about AJAX response format (?)
- Alp
+1 Rob, this is hardly without notice. They've been shouting about it for weeks.
- Pat Hawks
Alp: thanks, we are looking into the issue
- Bret Taylor
Always there are those resistant to change. I remind you all of the last couple of Facebook updates. At least the FriendFeed team listens and responds to complaints, problems and issues, and corrects them when necessary ----Big smiles and kudos for that!
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
@jeromeflipo: FrF was internet's GTD tool — one inbox for all links and discussions with accurately separated content. Now it's a vast of content where you should read instead of scanning. It takes much more time. New design is good but core features doesn't work properly.
- Juras Vetrau
You can find your Twitter publishing settings at http://friendfeed.com/setting.... You can find all the links to your settings by clicking the "settings" link under your name at the top right of every page (http://friendfeed.com/...)
- Bret Taylor
I love the new FF. Just wonder if the play/pause state can be remembered, so people might disable realtime updates.
- Arnaldo M Pereira
Bret, how do I get to the Advanced Twitter settings from the settings link under my name? I don't see it.
- Pat Hawks
Would be great to get the "best ofs" in a list via email too.
- Steve Rubel
Bret, you're welcome. I hope you don't remove http://friendfeed.com/realtime option for nostalgy :) By the way, in new version how can we learn users have subscribed us? You removed it from user popup dialog. And I think user-info popup has many whitespaces :) Why don't u fill them with comment/like stats? It shows the activity of user. I think it is critical.
- Alp
i love it!
- patrick
The play/pause state is remembered, so you can permanently turn off real-time if you don't want it. Steve: great point, we will add the ability to get "Best of" emailed to you.
- Bret Taylor
Play/pause wasn't remembered once, now it works. Maybe it was my mistake, thanks!
- Arnaldo M Pereira
Nice work.
- Caleb Elston
trying to enable IM notifications - maybe just slow? Not getting anything on the ol' GTalk..
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
love the new site, once I got use to it, keep up the good work
- Kim Landwehr
i really love the new interface :)
- alexandere
what?! beta can't be over, it's only been three weeks!
- Edward Zwart
Bret: I'm not seeing the posting link on the settings page: http://www.flickr.com/photos... How do you get to it without memorizing the URL?
- Mark Trapp
Feedback: http://friendfeed.com/yarosla... Thanks.
- Yaroslav Markin
@Yaroslav, totally agree.
- Лёша, не обобщай
First impression: new design just sucks compared to the old one, ant to the twitter's, if that's what you want to be like.
- Laenn
@Yaroslav oh yes
- Химия и Жизнь
from fftogo
no, please, this doesn't make sense!!
- Giovanni Calia | estragon
Feedback : I want old FF ... Pls old.friendfeed.com
- Hamza Şamlıoğlu @TEAkolik
where are you old ff?
- Ersin KOÇ
wo0T! the IM notifier ROCKS...I'M uber-stoked on that feature. (IM is the new email! lol!)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
No offends, but seriously, the visual design sucks.
- Лёша, не обобщай
I wish it could use a little more of my monitor screen real estate. :)
- Ray Cromwell
Bret, Dan or s.b. else, another CRUCIAL PROBLEM I discovered, after this new release, when people subscribed to me, I got notification mails entitled "... subscribed to your Friendfeed" twice or three times (which have a few minutes of delay between each other). You changed anything about mails settings(?) My friends ALSO reported that they get 2+ mails for new subscriber notifications.
- Alp
Mark, you can find the posting link from the Tools page (found at the bottom of any page)
- Dan Hsiao
If you are going to give us all of this (wasted) grey space to the side of our live feed, at least let us put our own background on the page. I mean, that would make you that much more like twitter, which seems to be the goal.
- Wizetux
Qwerty: did you get a stupid picture gift (or see a bunch of "Which 70s rockstar are you" quizzes? LOL! -That's how you'd know you're on Facebook. (oh, and the new spam that they have there....got my first one today!)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Bret: Can I post via IM? If so can I CC:Twitter from there?
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
doh! I didn't see the help link in the IM. I have another reading lesson scheduled for tomorrow
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
ok...the CC:Twitter via IM question still stands....if not, can you think about adding that?
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Really like the new UI. Thanks!
- Oliver Bouchard
I need the feed icons back.
- Peter
i really like the new look and feel - the page scrolling when it auto-updates takes a little getting used to.
- J.D. Deutschendorf
Good beta period. Here's to the Whole New Thing™.
- Chris Baskind
http://friendfeed.com/sunipey... change your avatar now..!
- Kaan Ukturk
Dan Hsiao: aha! Thanks.
- Mark Trapp
Mark, it's now available under your settings too :)
- Dan Hsiao
Awesome, thanks Dan.
- Mark Trapp
How do I add virtual friends?
- Peter
The best thing about this is that ff.im now points at the new design.
- Steve "Daddy do it!" Lacy
doubt i can get easily used to the "new" ff :( still have a firefox tab open on the realtime, with the old layout. guess i will just keep it as long as i can 0:)
- giuseppe c. | markgreene
I'm disappointed Imaginary friends has disappeared. I was actually using that feature to follow friends on Twitter (who didn't have FF accounts). Is there a way to do the same thing?
- Marc Chung
looks gr8!
- Amit
FOR ALL OF THOSE WANTING IMAGINARY FRIENDS: http://friendfeed.com/about...
- Wizetux
@Wizetux Thanks. Btw, your caps are on :)
- Marc Chung
New interface sucks. It really sucks, and giving headaches. You shouldve kept the old interface. Thanks for ruining one of my daily routines.
- Onur Gündüz
lovin it. are the best-of-summaries für the lists coming back?
- Marcel Weiß
@Marc: I know, I was attempting to yell over the noise of the grumbling over the new layout.
- Wizetux
Will it help if I join the crowd disliking the new version? Can't follow the conversation, too much color, too much moving around...
- Handem
Bret where are best of for lists? I don't see them anymore.
- Steve Rubel
The landing page - friendfeed.com - is especially great !
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Bret, Turkish users ask a favor; please, we ask for old.friendfeed.com ~ old style, look our avatars.
- Hüseyin Mert
Not gonna happen, dude. Progress is progress.
- LANjackal
I don't understand how to create Imaginary Friends. Yes "create a feed", whatever that's real helpful, not. I think the source for every entry should be an icon on the right like the previous version. Real-time updates are interesting and comments are the only reason to use this over twitter. New posting feature is good but everyone isn't on FF so I need Imaginary friends to continue to use FF or else buh-bye!
- Jude
@Jude The terminology is a bit confusing: It should really read "create a group" and add feeds to the group: Click "Browse /edit groups" > "Create a group". Setting it to private is basically the same thing as creating an Imaginary friend.
- Marc Chung
恭喜上线
- 阿石
Please, old style friendfeed interface.New interface is wrong...
- nagas
@Marc, @Wizetux thanks for clarifying. At some point during the beta they were using the terminology, "create a feed" and now you have to click on Groups in order to get to the place to "create a feed" but you have to know that it's called "create a group" - AWKWARD ... I think that is a navigational fail and a nomenclature fail. "Create a feed" is important enough that it should have it's own link on every page OR Groups should just be called Feeds.
- Laura Norvig
Yep. It's one of the most enjoyable and notable addition in years in the way it's handled. It's in its complexity where, as the experiment is, as a whole a very as speedy, as you want it and as slow as reading is. Missing everything or nothing. Noticing and warming up of individuals, all linked by that exercise, always now expanding. Good job to all of you, the ideas were really good in all ways. As played out. Many thanks. ;p
- ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,
for the interface. I think it is not as good as old edition.
- Ccming
I WANT THE OLD VERSION PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
- TechFuga
I hope you have read my bug report above.
- Alp
or can we have a link for the old version!!!!
- TechFuga
One more request: can we please have an API for userscripts? Due to dynamic nature of pages it suddenly became very hard to do anything persistent to FriendFeed from Greasemonkey. All I need is a hook from inside FrF javascript to process new portions of pages.
- Alex Kapranoff
+1 to Alex Kapranoff's request. Also, please at least bring back service icons (them missing really interrupts my parsing of the stream, especially with those big ass avatars), if you won't provide us with http://old.friendfeed.com (or http://classic.friendfeed.com :P)
- Gina Häußge
Gina, there is a user script to add service icons, in case that helps: http://userscripts.org/scripts...
- Micah Wittman
Micah, thanks, already found that (first thing was to look up on userstyles and userscripts for means to help myself ;)), but it's kind of a hack, and IMHO it would be way better if the FF team included that feature back into the code base. Don't know why anyone would consider it a good idea to remove it in the first place tbh, but hey, we all know these days...
- Gina Häußge
I don't want to use this. There must be alternative to use old FF
- altblog
Congrats, guys. Even works on IE6 now.
- James Myatt
get over it and use a third party client... you sound like people who use CDs
- Kemp Edmonds
from twhirl
Kemp, show me one that works as well and is as visually appealing as the old site (and also on both windows and linux without depending on Air (because that still kinda sucks under Linux)) and I'll shut up ;)
- Gina Häußge
sadly as a windows user and therefore pleeb (Slang for plebian. Often used to refer to noobs in an elitist sense.) by Macers and Linux' who can't help but be the envy of all. Sadly I sit contented by massive numbers of development projects and a variety of programs to choose from that is generally unlimited in cutting edge web apps... although I am a windows pleeb.
- Kemp Edmonds
from twhirl
@Micah I tried the script. It doesn't work with imaginary friends.
- Peter
now look super
- Faizar
How do I create imaginary friend feeds in the new gui?
- Carlos Brefe
Ouch, don't like. Agree with some of Juras V's comments, this makes skimming my feed for keeping a pulse on info/discussions MUCH worse for the time-starved (not speaking of RT aspect). Oh well, will try this for a bit, but feels like point where in Tom Peters' language FF is moving to "fire me as a customer." (Yes, I know we're not paying customers. I would have paid for old svc, was...
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- Casey
Will the daily activity emails (basically a digest) resume? Mine seemed to halt Apr 27 and the Email settings which seem currently available are absolutely flooding my inbox (had to turn it off within 5 mins). Please bring back daily digest type emails, really helpful if away for business or other reasons and ability to skim to catch up on info.
- Casey
@mchung Thanks for trying to clarify. Although creating a feed does not work the same since if a person already has a feed that's private, I can't use the same name. Bring back imaginary friends!!!
- Jude
Congrats FF... sorry I am late to the party...my work life is outta control... crazy busy! I miss FF :(.....
- Susan Beebe
I fully converted to FriendFeed BETA soon as it launched as I thought it rocked - now I don't have to put beta.friendfeed.com all the time :)
- Nicholas James
My impression of the new Friendfeed... http://j-m-williams.com/2009...
- Jason Williams
This is awesome! Back from the future! I _cant_ use twitter anymore. _cant_.
- Lakshman Prasad
Its not my friendfeed, its a horrible dream! :((
- Инк Лонгтан
you need a graphic designer or art director i think.
- Furkan Tunalı
dislike :(
- Trou Macacq
design (layout, interaction) had been mostly better in old variant, but AJAX engine you use in new variant just rocks (old ajax code was dead meat slow crap for desktops on steroids)
- A.T.
Bret, this page is has no entries right now: http://friendfeed.com/bret.... Your first comment page is OK, but all the next ones are empty. Weird.
- Jérôme Flipo
As a part of our redesign launch, you can post to FriendFeed by emailing share@friendfeed.com, and you can get your feed delivered via email (you can even comment by replying to the messages). See more here: http://friendfeed.com/share... (via http://friendfeed.com/friendf...)
Lyndon Washington, Jamie Ragen, Tanath and 55 other people liked this
unfortunately i have to confirm if i send from a non gmail, hotmail or yahoo account. I've changed the spf records according to these settings...http://www.google.com/support... - but still no luck :(
- Zee.
@Paul, Turkish users ask a favor; please, we ask for old.friendfeed.com ~ old style, look our avatars.
- Hüseyin Mert
Turkey, you used to be cool.
- Vezquex: God of FF
Zee, it should work for all SPF-enabled domains. You can test your SPF config by emailing a gmail account and then looking for the "Received-SPF" header under "Show original" in Gmail.
- Paul Buchheit
Hüseyin, it's impractical to maintain two separate site, however we definitely want to make the new ui work for you. Can you explain where the new ui has issues for Turkish users?
- Paul Buchheit
Sent a post via email (gmail via phone) and posted instantly to friendfeed (nice!). However, it did not push to Twitter. My other "likes" and Google Reader shared items all pushed to Twitter (before and after). Just not the email post. Any ideas why it was excluded?
- Brian
thanks Paul, i'll test it out.
- Zee.
Paul, we try beta ui, but its look like twittering. can't follow the conversation, too much color, too much moving around. many Turkish user dislike it. new UI should really renewed by feedbacks. (user's profiles pops not good, like a poor xhtml page, turkish bookmarklet page not working)
- Hüseyin Mert
Great design ,great technology ,great feeds ,,we the looppers are in love with Friendfeed
- Johni Fisher
I am not Turkish but one thing that the new UI really lacks is a visual indicator of what kind of feed the post is (flickr, rss, delicious, ff, etc). The text "from ..." is not enough. It was one of the great visibility features of the previous UI to show those icons. The design clarification of the new UI have lost this crucial ergonomic readability point. What about a tiny square icon below the avatar ?
- Oaksun
I just posted something to my FF stream by email, it works great. Thanks FF, you're getting better day by day!
- Sharon McPherson
Loopers, I like that better than the synaptic web.
- Bradley Gillap
love the new friendfeed paul! nice work and the email feature is great!
- patrick
one more annoying point : if I want to post in a specific room and not in my feed, I now have to delete the "my feed" (default) with the mouse then type the first letters of the room. The previous UI let me chose directly. It is in terms of design more "pretty" but in terms of usability, wrong.
- Oaksun
Dear Paul, Turkish users are some kind of coy :) We do not like sudden change and sometimes go back to the nostalgy. Most of them say that it is bad without any reason. Most probably, gray background color, realtime feed streaming, and service favicons are the source of this reaction.
- Alp
very clever
- Thomas Power
Not only Turkish — Russian users are crying out loud as well. Wanted even to have a picket by your office with "Please give us old friendfeed back" signs. :)
- earlyadopter
Nice!
- Roshan Ramachandran
Do BMW X5 owners get their shitty driving certification at the time of purchase? Or do they require some subsequent training?
Jérôme Flipo, Haw Kuo, Dave Morin and 17 other people liked this
I think they pre-qualify.
- Kevin Pedraja
a variation of the anthropomorphic principle?
- bob phillips
I feel sorry for them, they bought cars with no working turn signals or brakes.
- Admiral Anika
They also get Bluetooth headsets, too. Ugh.
- Mona Nomura
It's all iDrive's fault.
- Michael Herf
Do most BMW owners *become* shitty drivers? Or, do most shitty drivers buy BMWs? Asking the correct question, it seems, is the key here . . .
- Keith McCammon
Think of them as minivan drivers. Explains a lot.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Challenge, Chris?
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
*makes popcorn*
- Derrick
Anika- too true!
- Elena
Hey watch it, I am a BMW 330xi driver... and yes I own the road dammit! LOL
- Susan Beebe
Cisco Enterprise 2.0 event last week was very educational. Cisco is experimenting with a lot of different social networking tools. For example: Cisco Wiki for product ideas; got 600+ submissions and something like 15 went into product dev. Whoa. Picture: me, tired but enjoying. --- check out: http://www.meetup.com/CIO-IT-...
Merredith Branscombe, Eric @ CSTechcast.com and Cathryn Hrudicka liked this
Flotation or Isolation Tank Experience - http://primevector.wordpress.com/2009...
Adam Kazwell, DS, Merredith Branscombe and Paul Buchheit liked this
"What I immediately got was some perspective of how in a hurry I am. Ranging from the cellular to high level abstraction, there is an unnecessary sense of hurry. This has also affected my meditation in that it is now easier to detach from my thoughts as a primary component of self-image."
- Nivi
Sounds interesting. Will have to try.
- Paul Buchheit
I think I saw part of that movie -- it was pretty crazy. So far, I haven't noticed any dna regression.
- Paul Buchheit
A friend sent me this link: "The Book of Floating: Exploring the Private Sea," http://bit.ly/15PSq.
- Nivi
Al Gore at #Ted: "Clean coal is the new Joe Camel" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
Andrei M. Marinescu, VC Freak, Christophe Pierret and 27 other people liked this
How can Al Gore still show his face in public? He's the Maddof of public policy.
- Robert Hafer
Robert: did Al Gore rip off thousands of people? I sure wish you'd back up such a ridiculous claim.
- Robert Scoble
Al Gore is trying to regulate millions with the fraud of Global Warming.
- Robert Hafer
Robert: most scientists I've talked with do not agree it is a fraud. Back that up please with URLs.
- Robert Scoble
@Hafer is the Maddof of hyperbole.
- MikeAmundsen
Scobez: Dogma requires no proof. What the thinker thinks, the prover proves.
- Internet's Tad
Damn, Tad, that was deep.
- Alex Scoble
I'll have to wait till I'm at a computer; damn no cut and paste on my iPhone
- Robert Hafer
Alex: :P
- Internet's Tad
So THAT's what happened to the Gulf Coast three years ago! They were run over by a MYTH!
- Steven Perez
I'll save Robert Hafer the trouble: http://www.cnn.com/2009...
- Robert Scoble
LOL! pwnd
- Internet's Tad
You know, Hafer, you may have a point. After all, we can't have crazy ex-vice-presidents running around shooting their fool mouths off. *coughCheneycough*
- Steven Perez
Over 31,000 scientists disagree with Owl Gore http://www.petitionproject.org/
- Dave Roth
Dave: I'll go with CNN over some web site that has an active bias, thank you very much. http://www.cnn.com/2009...
- Robert Scoble
Ahh, the old "on my iPhone" excuse. Go figure. I have yet to see anything but websites with active bias attempt to belittle global warming facts. That alone is proof enough for me.
- jcunwired
And CNN isn't biased? What makes you think Global Warming is not a hoax? There's no science to prove it, and tons of left-wing agenda that use this non-crisis to further their agenda.
- Dave Roth
What makes you think it is a hoax? Show us the science. Umm, while you're at it, how does this fit in with anyone's agenda?
- jcunwired
"This whole global warming scam is nothing more than a front for wealth distribution and anti-capitalist activism. Democrats have come up with a great way to do accomplish those goals .. carbon credits. Charge companies and/or people for their carbon output and then let the government use that money to redistribute as it likes." (not my words)
- Dave Roth
Yeah, I've always viewed pollution reduction as an anti-capitalist front for redistribution of wealth. Oy!
- jcunwired
@Dave Roth: i can't believe you just quoted Neal Boortz [http://boortz.com/nealz_n...].
- MikeAmundsen
The sides are pretty convinced of the truth of their argument. The ice cores of the arctic have proven this is an unusual time in terms of the rapidity of melt and loss of ice coverage. True the earth has gone through cycles and ice ages before but none of this severity with this rapid onset. The extremes of weather is what you need to focus on, not just warming. Some warms will be warmer than ever, some colds, colder, moisture patterns climate will change and economies will suffer on a global scale.
- Phil Boiarski
@MikeAmundsen Yup. Neal's been right about this one for a long time.
- Dave Roth
I understand why many folks don't want to have severe restrictions on business to combat global climate change, and I understand why many folks are convinced that global climate change isn't caused by man, but what I don't get are people who refuse to believe that global climate change is happening right now or people who don't give a damn that hundreds of millions of us humans will be affected as ocean levels rise.
- Internet's Tad
Nice job getting all the crazy in one thread, should make for a nicer night tonight. Do we have to leave food for them, or can we must lock the door and leave them here?
- Matthew DeVries
It doesn't take a smart person to realize that *something* is going on and that maybe we ought to spend some time thinking about the consequences. I'm not thrilled at the far-left's attempts to use this as a smoke screen to dismantle global capitalism, but I'm also pretty unimpressed at the far-right's dogmatic and retarded response to what's going on.
- Internet's Tad
To me, it's irrelevant whether it's real or not, I support moving money toward fighting it, because it takes money out of rich people's pocket, and puts it in the hands of scientist who work on ways to control the weather, which is some seriously cool shit that will give us control of our planet, and help us understand how to do the same on different planets to serve humans. So, don't care if Global Warming is real or not, I want everyone else to believe in it so we can fund research into weather control.
- Matthew DeVries
Matthew, your point I agree with 100% percent.
- Admiral Anika
"because it takes money out of rich people's pocket"...and goodness knows they don't deserve the money they earned.
- Craig Eddy
@Dave Roth: "On numerous occasions, Boortz has cautioned his listeners to take no heed nor place any credence in anything he says, as he is merely an "entertainer."" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...]
- MikeAmundsen
Matthew, NOW your statement about all the crazy is true ;-)
- jcunwired
Sorry for the delay. One thing that bothers me is that climatologist relies heavily on satellite data that has only been available from the 70s, a time which coincides with the last low point in the cooling warming cycle. I have some urls to share. http://www.climateaudit.org/ http://www.junkscience.com/Greenho... http://icecap.us/index......
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- Robert Hafer
If you look far back at media coverage about climate, roughly every 30 years there is a rash of stories about climate disaster; and they alternate between warming and cooling. And another thing, what's with changing the name to Climate Change? If I post my theory of "Time Passes", does that make me right because, sure enough, it does?
- Robert Hafer
I don't get the global warming debate. Either you want more pollution or you want less pollution.
- Kirk Kittell
@Hafer: Stephen McIntyre (link #1) supports mining and has no climate standing. his sole credit is casting doubt on stats, not *proving* things. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] Steven Milloy (link#2) lobbie[s|d] for tobacco and oil - again no climate science standing and (again) heavy on casting doubt, not proving a hypothesis....
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- MikeAmundsen
Wow, is Global Warming the new Gun Control. Godwin's law not yet invoked, so probably not.
- Shawn Thompson
Casting doubt is kind of the whole point. NASA has twice recently had to "revise" down data they had published on temperature increase. Every week there's a new factor discovered that wasn't included in climate models. You will notice that the famous Global Warming charts have not been updated to reflect the last five years. And, I am used to being called "pro-pollution" because I question junk science.
- Robert Hafer
@Robert Are you for more pollution? If not, no problem, wouldn't you say?
- Kirk Kittell
@Hafer: the 31,000 scientists link took a bit of digging - it's a Fred Sietz project! [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] i remember his work for RJ Reynolds when he was debunking the cancer/smoking links. again (sadly) no science standing on climate and again (predictably) all about 'doubt' (need i add fear and uncertainty to the list?).
- MikeAmundsen
Ah, so Hafer, you are just a pedantic person? You see the problems with pollution but you don't want to call it global warming because you don't accept the science? OK. But in the meantime the quality of the air around the world gets worse. The ice caps are melting at a rapid (and visible) rate. Maybe the scientists and Al Gore are onto something? What is the price if you are wrong? Seems to me I'd rather be on the side of asking for cleaner air.
- Robert Scoble
@Hafer: 'casting doubt' is the whole point if you're a debunker. it's not the point at all if you're a scientist. doubt is not a proof. doubt is not a moral position, doubt is not a fact. doubt *is* an opinion. you're welcome to your doubt. you have every reason to hold to it. on any subject. i have no right to take it from you. you need not prove it. you *can* cite others who share it, tho. as you've done quite well.
- MikeAmundsen
Casting doubt surely is something scientists seek to do. Ultimately, you cast doubt on hypotheses, until you're left with just one -- hopefully, the correct one.
- Andrew Leahey
The price is spending the time, research and money on the wrong "solution" to the real problem of climate change.
- Andrew Leahey
It's just like the Ethanol debacle. Yes, I'm for alternate fuels, but burning ethanol from corn in your gas tank is just plain stupid. Less pollution is great; but carbon dioxide is not the enemy. We need good science, not junk. The Clean Air Act of 1963 caused acid rain because it mandated the removal of alkaline particulates and not acidic gasses. We have to wary of the "DO SOMETHING! ANYTHING!!!" attitude.
- Robert Hafer
@andrew: casting doubt? well, maybe. *having* doubt - i think yes. and it's that *start* of science, not the end. i might doubt the theory of relativity, might even find like-minded folks to meet with, pay folks to collect a set of statistics that support this doubt - even post a web site about it. that doesn't raise the standing of my doubts to a plausible (or provable) theory.
- MikeAmundsen
I used to be a scientist and have respect for the scientific method. Cherry picking your data and labeling your doubters as "blasphemers" isn't science. there are serious doubts about methodology. Why has NASA made raw METAR data harder to access? If the temperature on Mars is also rising, how can that be man-made? Why start your climate baseline in the 1800s when half of that century was still in the 'little ice age'?
- Robert Hafer
@Hafer: "labeling your doubters as "blasphemers" " - you talkin' to me?
- MikeAmundsen
@Hafer: RealClimate.org looks interesting. i've not read this before, but recognize some names. i've added it to my reader - thanks. John Everett and Ocean Associates is a slightly diff story. i see he's participated in IPCC and offered testimony re:fisheries. i'll read more, but i have my (wait for it.....) doubts about him<g>.
- MikeAmundsen
@MikeAmundsen no, sorry, I was talking about the Church of Global Warming and its Hierophant Al Gore
- Robert Hafer
What piece of evidence would you like to see that would prove to you that this is real or will you just dismiss everything from our 'church' out of hand.
- Johnny Worthington
I would like to see a climate model accurately predict future weather for one. More transparency from NASA and NOAA would help too.
- Robert Hafer
It never fails to amaze me how some people will dismiss a concept out of hand, no matter the preponderance of evidence before them, simply because of a distaste of the messenger.
- Steven Perez
Part of my skepticism stems from the fact that I'm old enough to remember the Global Cooling scare of the 70s; much of the rhetoric was the same as today, ' scientific concensus', the urgent need for action.
- Robert Hafer
In the 70s, scientist proposed covering the Artic with black soot to prevent the icecap from spreading.
- Robert Hafer
I think its hard piecing together a puzzle in a dark room with only a flashlight
- Melanie Reed
@Hafer - In Al Gore's movie, he shows a plot taken from Antarctic ice core samples that goes back 200,000 years. There are fluctuations, but we are currently way beyond any of those fluctuations. That convinced me. But also, reducing energy use overall will SAVE money, right? Who doesn't want to save money? If everyone were to just live closer to work in smaller homes and drive their cars less, we would save money and have less pollution. That's why a carbon tax is a good idea. It is technology neutral.
- Robert Felty
Until someone looks at the ice core samples it is easy to dismiss the notion. Once that evidence stares you in the face, you realize these people don't care what happens to our grandchildren. They intend not to reproduce.
- Phil Boiarski
Forrester: Brand loyalty to search engines is low and there's room for a Google killer - http://www.adweek.com/aw...
Bertrand Doux, Nigel Kitchen, fansnap and 19 other people liked this
At one time people thought Yahoo would never be overthrown. Now we have Google. Who knows what the future will hold.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
There may be room for other search engines, but a Google killer? Surely you/they jest. With all the collateral apps Google is putting out there to glue people to Google, I don't think Google is at risk of being killed.
- Kent
Kent: I don't think a Google killer is possible. Here's why: let's assume that someone could actually index as much, and figure out some magical way to make a demonstrateably better search engine. Very cool, right? Except it would get so hyped up, so quickly, that it would need to deal with Google's scale. Google has at least half a million computers now deployed in its data centers around the world. So, you'd need to build an equivilent infrastructure to deal with that. Where are you going to get money?
- Robert Scoble
If you can't figure out how you'll get the capital to compete with Google then there's no way you can build a Google killer.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, the money will come from a Nigerian Prince, of course.
- Micah Wittman
killer is no more than expecter
- 阿石
there will be a google killer or will get absorbed by a google.The marginal cost is very high right now to be able to be just equal to Google.But within 10 yrs or less that will not be a barrier.When U will be able to walk around with your hand held device having 1 Petabyte of disc space and the computing power of todays servers.You will be equivalent of a Google Data center, then it will be about how local can information get & update the device as you move about.
- Baba
Agree. What's more, I happily guide my family to this "Google killer", just like I installed Firefox for them. Perhaps Google==IE6? :)
- Meryn Stol
Nobody can beat Google at their own game (search), but if the game is changed there might be an opportunity. The $ from search comes from matching producers and consumers. If there was a better way to match producers and consumers that didn't require all sorts of infrastructure, there could be a viable business that eats into Google's revenue's without going head-to-head on search.
- coldbrew
won't even bother read the piece, the headline is just wrong, do a poll
- Bob Sonin
I completely disagree with the article, which I read b/c I have a Forrester account. The fact that people use multiple search engines is old news. The only story here is that sometimes Google isn't #1 in each niche. But overall Google dominates
- Mike Reynolds
I agree with @coldbrew, I don't think overthrowing google is possible without major paradigm shift occurring in the way we find information on the web. 10 years ago Google proclaimed that search is the king, I can see that something else will become a new king, and make whole web search concept obsolete. It may be social network based or real time information retrieval, but it won't be a traditional web search for sure - there is already not enough space for improvement.
- andrei_c
I can see a clear way to knock Google from its perch in search engines.
- Sean McBride
Google knows this which is why they are aggressively working to make search results better. The algorithm is still quite immature (a kind word for dumb). I've referred to it as a blind five year old and Matt Cutts has referred to it as a hyperactive four year old. So ... yes, if someone developed an engine that presented better results you'd have something. But that would be essentially creating an adult-equivalent AI. *very* difficult.
- AJ Kohn
You know what is lame? Eight-day delays on hulu. A delay wouldn't bother me that much, but an eight-day delay is just STUPID. I'd seriously be interested in the network reasoning on this, if anyone has any clues.
Tyson Key, Josh Haley, Merredith Branscombe and 8 other people liked this
Two things: exclusivity with other providers and encore replays of the episode. They could have a contract with iTunes, for example, that gives them the exclusive electronic distribution rights for a week, or they could be interested in playing the episode again later in the week. In both cases, they don't want Hulu to cannibalize those opportunities.
- Mark Trapp
I'd assume things like that. But my question is, wouldn't they rather you watch it on TV than through any of the electronic outlets? Or are they now getting more ad/purchase revenue through iTunes/hulu than on TV? Because if I miss an episode and have to wait eight days to watch it on hulu, then I miss the next episode on TV. And now I'm no longer watching it on TV at all for the rest of the season, I'm watching on hulu. Is this good for the network? Why not put it on hulu six days late instead of eight?
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Well, iTunes is set income and return from the consumer: a consumer pays $1.99 for the episode, and that's that. With advertising, it's hard to determine if the advertiser really got their money's worth on an individual basis. With Hulu, there are studies showing that people sit through more ads online than they do when watching TV. TV is still king, because that's what advertisers...
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- Mark Trapp
What they're banking on with a long delay is that the true watchers of the show (the non casual viewers) will do what they need to do to watch the episode in a timely manner, either by watching it on TV, or by using the preferred distribution channel for that week. Either that, or that they will wait until the DVD comes out and shell out the cash. Casual viewers are like StumbleUpon or...
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- Mark Trapp
I'm pretty committed to my shows, but I'm also committed to not spending money for network TV. If inconvenienced badly by delays that keep me from getting back to the show on TV (my preferred viewing method), I'm much more likely to torrent the show than buy it from iTunes, etc. I feel like waiting for hulu when it's available immediately on torrent sites is already bending over backwards to try to do the right thing. Are there any statistics for whether an eight-day delay results in increased piracy?
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I don't know about that specifically, but I do know there have been studies that have shown piracy to have gone down when legal means to digitally retrieve the content are available, even if there's a cost or DRM associated with it (like iTunes).
- Mark Trapp
One of my favorite shows on USA Network doesn't wait 8 days, they're up there like the next day. It's only NBC, FOX, etc that do that.
- Aaron Myers
Thanks for all the insights, Mark. I still think a shorter delay would be better for everyone, but you've given me some things to think about. For a personal perspective, I definitely pirate far less now that there are legal ways to get digital media. I don't do DRM, but I'd much prefer to use legal means when possible. I don't even mind paying for it, except for things that are initially free on TV.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Aaron, Sci-fi does it with Battlestar Galactica, too. Threw me in a tizzy at the end of the half-season. And Fox/NBC, etc don't do it with everything. I watched last week's Fringe in plenty of time for yesterday's episode, and Hell's Kitchen from last Thursday is up. The show in question this time is House.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
My House season pass on iTunes comes in at midnight the day after it airs, so it might be an exclusivity contract coming into play. You have to think it as there's no such thing as a free lunch: when you watch a show on TV, it's not free: you pay for it by viewing ads. With Hulu or iTunes or any other distribution method, the value for those methods needs to offset the hit TV might take. The problem is in the calculus, and it's a very difficult problem for content providers to solve.
- Mark Trapp
But that's my point, Mark. I missed the episode, so I want to watch it before the next one airs. My preference at this point would be to watch ONE episode on hulu with limited ads, then the rest of the season on TV and watch the more-expensive TV ads. But I'm forced to watch the rest of the season on hulu with limited ads, and not see ANY more TV ads for that show at all. I'm accepting...
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- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Jandy, right, but the presumption is that if you really wanted to stay active in watching the show on a weekly basis, you'd spend the $1.99 and buy it from Amazon or iTunes. The people who wouldn't spend the money are probably people who wouldn't mind waiting. From Amazon or iTunes's side, a 6 day exclusivity is just as good as no exclusivity: the value in it for them is that they are the only places to get the show, so people have to come to them.
- Mark Trapp
what are you waiting to watch? most of that stuff is on the network's website the next day
- Richard Lawler
Richard, you are right: for some reason, networks find that to be infinitely valuable to have that on their site, even if they're delaying it to Hulu or other channels. ABC is notorious for keeping its content on its site. FOX, however, is an 8 day delay (just like Hulu). The other network I notice that doesn't play that game is CBS: they will not air full episodes of the Big Bang Theory on their site due to fears it might destroy the syndication market for the show.
- Mark Trapp
Heh. I guess I could just watch it there and shut up. But I can't stream shows from Fox.com through my Xbox to my TV, and I can do that with hulu. Plus I have far less technical issues with hulu than with the network sites, so I've just about stopped going to them. (Hence, if I miss an ABC show, I either torrent it immediately or just wait and get the DVDs from Netflix.)
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
that's definitely very true @mark and Jandy, it sucks that the content is out there, you just can't get at it the way you want, when you want. still, we're getting there. Imagine just a couple years ago when half the networks didn't offer streaming at all and there was no hulu.
- Richard Lawler
@Richard, oh, I remember a couple of years ago. There was a year or so there that I torrented everything. Literally. I resist that now, since there are legal options, but a lot of the time it would still be more convenient and certainly easier to use the way I want to (streaming an .avi file to my TV is easier than streaming hulu and it hiccups less).
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
shoot, I'll still sneakernet a downloaded avi on usb stick over to my xbox and watch it just like it was regular tv. I think the pressure is there though, you look at the stuff shown at CES, now that media streaming is getting put directly into displays the ways to get your video over the network should improve for everyone.
- Richard Lawler
I think this whole argument is bullshit. I will blog later about why. Arrington has taken us all off the rails into stupid land.
Jordi Soler, Louis Gray, Rob Brammeld and 32 other people liked this
Do you think this was just linkbait? Just a way to generate some controversy?
- Sean Scott
Worked for FFundercats... ; )
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
well I did not start an argument, I just requested a feature!
- Loic Le Meur
Never commented on TC but was tempted to on this. It really is bullshit. What's the problem here? People are passionate and that bugs him?
- Justin Stayshyn
Sean: you think? Of course it was.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you should have a proper discussion forum, like a real debate about it. To me all of you guys have made the whole issue a lot of mess, it needs to be cleared out.
- Cesar Arevalo
I am sorry Robert but when I wrote the post I was not looking for a fight with anyone, I genuinely want that feature! And I know many people do too.
- Loic Le Meur
the idea is BS. that's why plurk is terrible - karma. people posting shit instead of something interesting and trying to get more and more followers.
- Terry O'Fee
Sounds like everyone is standing their ground on this one. Perhaps an open debate?
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Robert, agreed that the follow up posts on TC smack of fueling the fire to get traffic in. And that's a shame. I've loved TC for a while now, but there's been a few incidents (posts and public appearances) where i think there is some over-reaching being done by MA. I say stick/go back to providing great analysis on the merit or lack thereof of digital startups. Leave the gossip and link-baiting to valleywag.
- Sean Scott
I'd discuss it with Arrington but he has me blocked on twitter and on friend feed. so you know, screw that. HOWEVER... this is just another example of people here trying to connect and people here trying to exploit. Where's the $$? Where's the measurements? Where's the way I can figure out the biggest bang for my buck? That's all they want. And they'll get it, I'm sure. The rest of us will be investing in the relationships... time will tell.
- Erin @queenofspain
This argument is important; in the abstract anyway. What is at question here is: What political structure should obtain in communications? Loic, wittingly or no, is making the case for something aristocratic, which, I would hope he would defend vigorously. Scoble, wittingly or no, is responding with egalitarianism. I don't think those are the only two options, but the debate, I think, is at the very heart of the paradigm shift we are witnessing.
- Eliot Frick
Loic: I will write a blog about this. See you later. This is not a fight. It is a debate over a poorly-thought out feature.
- Robert Scoble
Agree with you, Sean. Someone suggested a day or two ago that Mike needs to take that stuff off the TC site and maybe start his own personal blog. I really think that's a great idea. TC is becoming less about news and more about stirring people up and I don't think that's a great direction to go.
- Shawn Farner
@scoble looking forward to it, interesting discussion
- sofarsoShawn
Wow what an epic mess that needs leadership, vision, planning and strategic execution! Enough already with the short sided and selfish gaming of the system. Robert I look forward to your blog post... Good move, and thanks for stepping up to add wisdom and remove confusion
- Susan Beebe
Eliot: I want some of what Loic wants too: to be able to find authoritative tweets. Using # of followers is the worst way to solve this problem. Even though it would help me more than Mike or Loic.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I submit it is not "poorly-thought out" at all. I'm all for egalitarianism, but the "social contract" is only possible if there's something with which to contract. That there are voices which naturally rise to the top is meaningful. To eschew that meaning simply because, y'know, it feels like too elitist or something is kinda procrustean methinks.
- Eliot Frick
Robert: I agree generally that tweets which confer value are important and finding them is equally important. I further agree that the value of a tweet does not necessarily correlate with # of followers. But that said, # of followers definitely means _something_.
- Eliot Frick
Eliot: you are right and wrong. There are better ways to get what you want than by using # of followers. Remember, I have the most so am very authoritative when I say it is a meaningless metric. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Key quote, "Arrington has taken us all off the rails into stupid land." Always remember that because it is always true.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Robert, your argument is abnegating. So I am to infer that you are authoritative to speak on the merits of having a large number of followers by merit of the fact that you have a large number of followers?
- Eliot Frick
I don't see mike in gf or twitter arguing for it. Link anyone?
- Tyler (Chacha)
I think Loic has a great idea that is incredibly tricky to implement correctly, if not impossible. It is near impossible to quantify "authority" in a way that can not be gamed. Studies have been done on this in the past in the offline world, but were met with the same controversy. The one who can give an agreeable equation for "authority" and "merit" and "correctness" and "soundness" will be rich person.
- xero
And for the record, I don't wish to appear to be a pedantic prick. You seem like an incredibly kind person with a mountain of integrity. I'm only arguing with you because I think the argument has merit and you seem willing and able to debate.
- Eliot Frick
Arrington misstates the issue. The original request was for a determination of "Twitter authority" based upon number of followers. I have been followed by lots of people with lots of followers who have no more authority in their stated topic than I do. It's a silly metric. As you have said many times Robert, the more interesting metric is who YOU follow. "authority" measured by follower #'s is nothing more than smoke.
- Karoli
A more interesting and deeper metric for real 'authority' might be a 'retweet' metric, but even that will be gamed.
- Karoli
Let's think of what the feature really does - determines celebrity not authority. Maybe that could be helpful - to see what the influencers are saying
- Andrew Mueller
Both sides are right... and wrong. Go to Google and search for "Diabetes" and see the "Refine results for diabetes." Now do the same search on Twitter. It is not about "authority" (and authority has nothing to do with # of followers). The engine needs to understand user intent. Something that Google has been working on for a few years ~ but still has long way to go.
- Julio F ~ @SocialJulio
The only real issue with this whole thing was the equation used for "authority". The equation was actually "celebrity" not "authority" but the argument has centered around a proper equation for "authority" and the idea that one can not exist.
- xero
the day "ability to game the system" equals "actual authority" when it comes to the quality of someone's speech is the day we might as well give up using the Internet... The best advice anyone ever gave me about Twitter was you Robert, when you said "who you follow and what you learn is way more important than how many people follow you." Hasn't steered me wrong so far. Love ya even more for this post. Don't particularly care if 2 or 42k people follow you - it has authority *because it makes sense*...
- Lucretia Pruitt
Well, the only data we have to turn into information, is followers, following, and updates. It seems like any search for info on Twitter is doomed to failure, simply because the information being searched, May not be available. No amount of this mythical 'authority' metric is going to change that.
- Mike Shields
Mike: that's not correct. You also have retweets. Thanks to peoplebrowsr.com you also have tags. Thanks to friendfeed you have likes. On Twitter you have favorites. Twitter also has click data. Using Blog Search you could find inbound links from blogs. On friendfeed you have comments. TONS of metadata to study!
- Robert Scoble
Robert - This thread is a great example of how a lot of 'us' have been living in a very small world. I for one, plan to break out a bit and discover new sources in 2009 rather than get caught up in this type of meme.
- Charlie Anzman
Loic Le Meur is no idiot. Up until a couple of days ago I didn't know who he was. Now the whole geek-blogosphere is talking about him.
- Gabby
I seriously do not see what the big deal is. It's a feature request. Get over it. Implement the feature, have the ability to sort based on popularity or not (by turning it off)...popularity is not authority...but who's cares. I call linkbait.
- Ryan
Ryan, linkbait indeed - these guys are all geniuses. :-)
- Jesse Stay
Britney Spears Wishes Japanese Audience a “Wonderful Christmas” - http://www.inquisitr.com/12236...
Merredith Branscombe liked this
We just pushed Plugins for Facebook Connect. Wordpress, Moveable Type, Disqus, and MediaWiki. Get 'em while they're hot! - http://developers.facebook.com/news...
Merredith Branscombe and Jesse Stay liked this
A Former Republican on Sarah Palin - http://www.dailykos.com/storyon...
bill giltner, Merredith Branscombe, stretta and 13 other people liked this
"Former Republican John Cole on Sarah Palin: "Sarah Palin is the distilled essence of wingnut. She has it all. She is dishonest. She is a religious nut. She is incurious. She is anti-science. She is inexperienced. She abuses her authority. She hides behind executive privilege. She is a big spender. She works from the gut and places a greater value on instinct than knowledge. And most dangerous of all, she is supremely self-confident to the point of not recognizing how ill-equipped she is to lead the country.""
- Sean McBride
from Bookmarklet
Her religious views scare me. Her lack of any undertanding of foreign policy scares me even more. The fact that she wants a pipleline installed by Jesus makes me agree she is a wingnut!
- Michael VanDervort
from twhirl
who the heck is john cole besides a former republican?
- Tony Kanzia
I used to read his blog a couple of years ago when he was Republican. Great for opposing point of view, and I felt that he was one of a very few on the other side of the fence who was honest. While I haven't read him in awhile, I can see that he still tells it like it is.
- jcunwired
this guy is a Republican like x-senator Lincoln Chaffe, I.e. He is not a Republican.
- eggsy
The Palin supporters here are not answering the substance of Cole's remarks, which are dead on.
- Sean McBride
I started the list of ENTERPRISE TWITTER apps, please add to this list in comments http://www.web-strategist.com/blog...
Jemm, Sarah Perez, Jeff Moriarty and 6 other people liked this
Thanks for the links! This is going to be a very interesting market. Do you know of any corps using these things?
- Rafe Needleman
from twhirl
Ill find out Rafe. You and me both want to know! Let's agree to stay in touch about this. Ok?
- Jeremiah Owyang
I updated the post
- Jeremiah Owyang
Posted in comments on this url as well: I’m a proverbial n00b to social media, but I have worked in IT for over a decade now… I’m interested as to how this benefits a corporation in your opinion(s) as opposed to newsgroups, wiki’s, KB’s, IM, and SaaS PM offerings? In other words, if Twitter is an indication of distraction, would not corporate micro-blogging be the same?
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
Great list Jeremiah - I think I may share a few of these in my presentation on Wed. (presenting to a group of CIOs in Dallas)
- Jesse Stay
Yeah, let me know. I generally hate running case studies on Webware, but this might be a good time to break the rule.
- Rafe Needleman
from twhirl
Saw a demo today of a company that has built an internal twitter tool, pretty interesting. The company 'watercooler'
Ben Austwick, Todd Defren, Merredith Branscombe and 2 other people liked this
i would be interested in see that too - can you send them my way?
- mike "glemak" dunn
Potentially a great way to break the wall between employees willingness to lurk on internal social media tools and actually getting them contributing beyond comments. What was their experience of it or are they still in the process of launching?
- mattpovey
that's a client. lemme know if there's anything missing from their presentation, so we can help them improve for future briefings? glad you seemed to like their story...
- Todd Defren
McCaingels, Ep 1: Lesbian Wedding - http://www.atom.com/funny_v...
Chantal, Arthur Guy and Merredith Branscombe liked this
Posted to FriendFeed - 8 minutes have passed, and not a single "Like" or "Comment." Either I completely misjudged my followers, nobody's watching, the "lesbian" keyword isn't as click-worthy as it used to be, or... or you're watching the video right now. :)
- l0ckergn0me
guess they have all grown up
- Curtis "Billy" Cross
from twhirl
MyAWOL Becomes LP33.TV, Launches IMDB For Musicians - http://www.techcrunch.com/2008...
Merredith Branscombe liked this
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