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Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"First off, I was respectful in my request, so please respect me in return. Agreed? Now, as for the numbers you're showing, citation please? I'd love to investigate your findings further. I'm not trying to mock you as I'm genuinely interested. I'm open-minded, and I'm ready to change my mind if there's enough evidence to sway me. Thank you for your time. P.S.: What is ORAC? Thanks." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"No they don't. They say it was reported as a possible side effect. So they have to list that among others, by law. But it doesn't mean it's causal. More studies are showing it isn't." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"Citation to show I'm wrong, please? Thanks. By the way, AutismDad, let me respectfully ask you a personal question: I'm guessing by your name that you have a child or children with autism. If so, did you have them vaccinated, which is why you're so adamantly against vaccines? If that's the case, I'm glad. Dealing with autism is a struggle, I know. But the positive is that they are at least protected. Did you ever have them officially tested for autism? What stage in the sepctrum are they? And I'm wondering, did you ever have them tested as to link their autism to vaccines? That would be interesting. I'd love to know that information myself. I also ask this question because more and more scientific studies are showing that autism is mostly genetic and inherited (sometimes, by inheriting a specific combination of parental genes, even though the parents are not autistic). Even though the gene hasn't been found, evidence is showing that it is indeed genetic. For example: "Research..." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"Some of these studies took 2, 3, even 5 years or more. So, are you saying that you're expecting scientists to work for free for years, without any compensation whatsoever? I'd hate to think that the only way you'd be convinced of a vaccine's effectiveness is one that was studied extensively, through a labor-intensive process, by a large number of credentialized, volunteer, expert scientists and laboratory staff. It doesn't make sense, so I'm sure that's not what you meant. I'd hate to think you would be that inconsiderate. So I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"Interesting. I agree that there are side effects. But tell me, do you have actual links to scientific studies? Because most of your links are to anti-vaccination, fear-mongering sites that only post opinions, or cherrypicked and misleading data. I mean, are there any studies published in medical, peer-reviewed journals? And to level the playing field, do you have links to studies to double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled studies, which is the same as was asked of me? Don't worry, you don't have to. I'm sure there are some, and I totally agree some vaccines carry risks and side effects. Some are serious. But the cost-benefit ration is pretty obvious. At least to me. So my opinion is that the scientific consensus shows vaccines work." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"After so much back-and-forth with people who keep asking for proof of double-blind, placebo-controlled trial on vaccines (indicating there are none, as this above article states), I postulated that it would be unethical to willfully inject a placebo and expose someone to a virulent disease. But the writer of this blog post says that "Effectiveness cannot be determined unless one is then knowingly exposed to the disease entity following vaccination." This leads me to conclude that the writer is either a sociopath, or simply ignorant and naive. (I'll give them the benefit of the latter.) Because I thought my argument about the unethical nature of testing vaccines was pretty self-explanatory, but it seems to the equally misled followers of this blog that you can and must do a study by exposing people willfully to a virulent and deadly disease, even with an inert placebo thus endangering their lives. Otherwise, not doing so would be the unethical thing. These are the same people who..." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"LMAO! Love it." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"I know. The video I posted shows how horrible these diseases are without vaccines. But anti-vaxxers would prefer sticking fingers in their ears and pull the wool over their own eyes instead." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"It appears that the previous commenter is still posting fallacious information. So to the future readers of this comment, please read this article from Dr. Steve Novella: http://www.sciencebasedmedicin... It will demonstrate the significant decrease in disease since the introduction of vaccines, and that people who argue the same point as the previous commenter have been misled by erroneous information. And to ignore the increase of disease since the reduction in vaccinations caused by the fear of vaccines created by anti-vaxxers is disingenuous. There is ample evidence that shows a resurgence of these nearly eradicated diseases with the reduction in vaccination in recent times. I encourage you to read this important article on the statistics as well as the truth behind many of the misconceptions pushed by anti-vaxxers. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/va..." - Michel Fortin
Re: Bellevue woman makes progress in cancer battle with all-natural regiment - http://wkrn.com/2014...
"Deleting comments is despicable. You should be ashamed of yourselves, News 2." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"I'm no longer going to address the other commenter in this thread because they are unreasonable people who refuse to use logic and common sense. But I will address the future readers of this comment who might be on the fence and doing research on this topic. To these readers, let me emphasize that vaccines work because it has been proven through the world decline in vaccinated diseases. But anti-vaxxers will always claim that the decline is not attributable to vaccines but to medical advances, improved sanitation, education, etc. How we know it's wrong is the recent re-emergence of long-eradicated diseases caused by the anti-vaccination movement, as well as the decline of diseases in some of the most unsanitary locations, like in India and Africa. The correlation is pretty strong. The problem is, no matter how you fight and disprove anti-vaxxers' points, they'll come back with more fallacies, cherrypicked data, and strawman arguments in an attempt to move goalposts. So please, use..." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"And it has also been proven through the world decline in vaccinated diseases. But anti-vaxxers will always claim that the decline is not attributable to vaccines but to medical advances, improved sanitation, education, etc. How we know it's wrong is the recent re-emergence of long-eradicated diseases caused by the anti-vaccination movement. The correlation is pretty strong. Problem is, no matter how you fight and disprove their points, they'll come back with more, moving goalposts and using strawmen arguments. So it's useless, really." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
""So let's stick with proving that they are safe and/or effective." The world decline in vaccinated diseases is evidence." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"You made no sense. You're contradicting yourself." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"Again, you cannot do that. And evidence is shown in the near eradication of vaccinated diseases. As you stated, you, too, have faith that they don't work and I'm impressed. The difference is, no proof will ever be good enough for you, and you're willing to hurt people to get it. So, good enough. I'm out. You win." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"Wow. You're wrong. 1. No you can't. Not for a preventative. You cannot conduct such studies because it's preventative and might give people a false sense of hope and putting them in harm's way. Plus, to make study completely valid, you have to purposefully expose them to the disease. Not just "hope" they might get it someday. 2. Wrong. First, these are curative, not preventative. You're not trying to prevent disease. You're trying to cure it. Placebo use in such cases are not cure vs. placebo. They are cure (new) vs. cure or treatment (old). I know, because my wife has stage 4 cancer and she has been on multiple clinical trials. They would never withhold cures or even standard treatments in terminal cases. So your argument about ethics is a moot point. Again. 3. Yes, they have. That's the point. Many vaccines were tested on animals before they were given to humans. But I bet you're going to move the goalposts now and say that, "Well, these are done on animals, not humans!"" - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"See my other reply. It is unethical to withold vaccination from someone and claim that they are protected, so we no longer conduct such experiments. From: http://www.skepticalob.com/200... "The latest such 'argument' is that the safety and efficacy of vaccines have never been proven because they have not been subjected to a controlled randomized double blind study against a placebo. This 'argument' is designed to impress those with a minimal knowledge of statistics. In other words, it is designed to impress those who know enough statistics to realize that anecdotes are not a substitute for scientific studies and are familiar with the concept that a controlled randomized double blind study against a placebo is the 'gold standard' in some areas of drug research. "Unfortunately, they don’t know enough to realize that controlled randomized double blind studies are unethical in certain circumstances, including the testing of vaccines. So what is presented on vaccine rejection websites as a..." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"So 1.3 million is not a good enough group? Your confirmation bias is showing, Utstroh. The link I provided was on the history of vaccines. Again, it is unethical to withhold the vaccine, tell people they're protected, and then exposing them, on purpose, to a virulent disease. Read my other response as your comment is invalid. You cannot double-blind, placebo-control a vaccine. Period. But I guess you don't have an ethical concern with killing babies. Obviously. Not just with your anti-vaccination stance but also in your desperate call for studies. It's no different than injecting someone with saline solution and telling them it's an Ebola vaccine, and then sending them off into an Ebola-stricken zone. It's unethical, illegal, and wrong. And despite that, vaccine denialists like yourself are still insisting on proof through extra experimental studies that vaccines work. The mind boggles." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"From: http://www.historyofvaccines.o... Jonas Salk: A Double-Blind Randomized Trial The 1954 field trial of Jonas Salk’s inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV) was another important milestone in the use of the scientific method to test a vaccine. This trial enrolled a huge number of subjects—1.3 million children in all—in what is the largest medical field trial ever conducted." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
""The latest such 'argument' is that the safety and efficacy of vaccines have never been proven because they have not been subjected to a controlled randomized double blind study against a placebo. This 'argument' is designed to impress those with a minimal knowledge of statistics. In other words, it is designed to impress those who know enough statistics to realize that anecdotes are not a substitute for scientific studies and are familiar with the concept that a controlled randomized double blind study against a placebo is the 'gold standard' in some areas of drug research. "Unfortunately, they don’t know enough to realize that controlled randomized double blind studies are unethical in certain circumstances, including the testing of vaccines. So what is presented on vaccine rejection websites as a startling and inexplicable refusal of scientists to test vaccines is actually the inevitable result of complying with ethical rules for scientific investigations. "There are many..." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"The reason is, you're asking for a "double blind placebo controlled study" when the proof is the results are glaringly obvious. Since the introduction of vaccines, pertussis is down by 81%, measles by 99% and almost eradicated, and mumps down by 99% and almost eradicated. And now, since the emergence of the anti-vaccine movement, some of these diseases are making a comeback. But your first comment didn't say only effective. You said "safe and effective," thus the strawman." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"Strawman. Vaccines have risks. But the pros outweigh the cons. This is the same argument people make telling cancer patients not to undergo chemo because of the side effects. As for fear-mongering, pro-vaxxers can use them but they use facts and statistics. Anti-vaxxers use anedoctes and exaggerations and misinformation." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"How can one be more specific? It's pretty self-explanatory. The article is filled with misinformation, cherrypicked data, and grossly exaggerated claims. The whole article is incredibly misleading and fearmongering." - Michel Fortin
Re: 10 Reasons Not To Vaccinate - http://vactruth.com/2014...
"Please provide your evidence that the CDC is lying. I'd be very interested since a number of studies have shown no link. Thanks." - Michel Fortin
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