Middle East Discussion

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daviza to daviza's feed, Middle East Discussion

POLITICS: U.N. Affirms Israeli-Hamas War Crimes Report - IPS ipsnews.net - http://www.ipsnews.net/news...

Wednesday from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

"UNITED NATIONS, Nov 5 (IPS) - A 575-page blistering report by Justice Richard Goldstone detailing war crimes in Gaza last December is refusing to die despite an aggressive Israeli smear campaign to kill it. The report, which was favourably voted by the 47-member Human Rights Council in Geneva last month, received overwhelming support Thursday in the 192-member General Assembly. The vote was 114 in favour and 18 against, with 44 abstentions. The 18 countries that voted against the resolution included the United States, Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, Italy and Israel. Ambassador Riyad Mansour, Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations, singled out Ireland, one of the few Western nations to vote for the resolution, for "supporting" it. He also noted that a "sizeable number of European nations" abstained on the resolution. Among the abstentions were Britain, France, Norway, Sweden, Spain, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Denmark and Greece. "The General Assembly sent a powerful message," he told reporters, adding that if Israelis do not comply, "We will go after them."" - daviza from Bookmarklet

Maxamad to Maxamad's feed, Economics, US Politics, Middle East Discussion, FF Investors Club

Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure, says whistleblower - http://www.guardian.co.uk/environ...

November 10 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Chris Greene, 通りもん, Maxim Tee and 5 other people liked this

"The world is much closer to running out of oil than official estimates admit, according to a whistleblower at the International Energy Agency who claims it has been deliberately underplaying a looming shortage for fear of triggering panic buying." - Maxamad from Bookmarklet

#peakoil - Maxamad

"A second senior IEA source, who has now left but was also unwilling to give his name, said a key rule at the organisation was that it was "imperative not to anger the Americans"" - by Americans I don't think they mean us. - Todd Hoff

daviza to daviza's feed, Middle East Discussion

Google Reader registan.net, is the west getting ready to leave Afghanistan, and leaned on Abdhullah? (1000+) - http://www.google.com/reader...

November 6 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Sean McBride liked this

"oday in asia times on line there is the claim that the US/NATO persuaded Abdullah Abdullah to quit the second round of the Afghan election. If that weren’t enough, they also make the claim that the US has agreed that the Pakistani Army will mediate between the US and the Taliban to find a (face saving) way for all NATO forces to, well, cut and run. I really can’t vouch for the veracity of this story, but the fact it is reported means some group or other must believe it, and that is, to my mind, worth noting. Particularly as rumour seems to count for as much as evidence in this part of the world. Furthermore, the same issue has this story regarding the likelihood of a rise of a new nation called Pashtunistan. Taken together, I think that it probably means a fairly significant Pashtun grouping really believe they can get their own state out of this whole thing. There is also the implication that the civilian Pakistani government is being marginalised (to the benefit of the Pakistani... more... - daviza from Bookmarklet

daviza to daviza's feed, Middle East Discussion

Obsidian Wings on the training of Afghan police and army - http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/

November 6 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Sean McBride liked this

"n her superbly written article "Meet the Afghan Army," first published by TomDispatch, Ann Jones provides personal and direct observations on this subject... Based on years of experience in Afghanistan, Jones said she believes there is little trust among these units composed of various tribal factions and that "these impoverished men in a country without work have joined the Afghan National Army for what they can get out of it (and keep or sell) -- and that doesn't include democracy or glory." She notes that many recruits do not return for duty after their 10-week basic training and others "re-enlist" under a different name to get an additional 10 weeks' pay. Some may be Taliban gaining valuable insight into tactics, techniques and procedures Compared to unwittingly providing training and arms to Taliban fighters, the payment of reconstruction dollars might not appear like such a great crime. Still, these incidents serve as, occasionally tragic, reminders of just how out of our... more... - daviza from Bookmarklet

Maxamad to Maxamad's feed, Middle East Discussion, US Politics

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Palestinians in statehood warning - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2...

November 4 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

winckel, Sean McBride and Roberto Bonini liked this

"Palestinians might have to abandon the goal of an independent state if Israel continues to expand Jewish settlements, the chief Palestinian negotiator said." - Maxamad from Bookmarklet

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"At a news conference in the West Bank, Saeb Erekat said it was a "moment of truth" for President Mahmoud Abbas." - Maxamad

'He said it might be time for Mr Abbas to "tell the truth" that a two-state solution "is no longer an option". ' - Maxamad

'But Israel rejects a one-state solution as a demographic time-bomb that would make Jews a minority in the country.' - Maxamad

'It may be time for President Abbas to "tell his people the truth, that with the continuation of settlement activities, the two-state solution is no longer an option", Mr Erekat said in Ramallah.' - Maxamad

Right-wing Zionists (including Christian Zionists) reject both the two-state and one-state solutions. They favor other solutions: mass deportation, ethnic cleansing, genocide, World War IV, Armageddon, the use of nuclear and biological weapons, the building of the Third Temple, the creation of maximal Eretz Yisrael in territories currently occupied by Palestinians, etc. And that is... more... - Sean McBride

Maxamad

This is an interesting predicament. I made this room with my old FF account, which I have since deleted. This room is still around however....with no admin. Administration does not really seem to be needed, so I guess we'll all have to coexist with no overlord to control us. I'm cool with it and don't really desire to be admin anyways. Keep posting

November 3 - Comment - Like - Share

...and discussing :) - Maxamad

David Hall to David's feed, Middle East Discussion

Baby, You Can Drive My Car? | Women's Rights | Change.org #saudi - http://womensrights.change.org/blog...

November 3 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

David Hall to David's feed, Middle East Discussion

Chuckle filled Saudi afternoon TV show (think Richard & Judy) with special guest #Saudi be-header in chief. #humanrights - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

November 2 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

David C. Cooper to David's feed, Global Politics & News, US Politics, Middle East Discussion, Middle East Forum, Israel 5770, Israel PressConf, Jew News

Israeli police storm Jerusalem's holiest site - Yahoo! News - http://news.yahoo.com/s...

October 25 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

mjc, Christopher Chung and Maxamad liked this

The Muslims are rioting to stop the Jews from praying on the their own Temple Mount?!? If they truly believe that Islam is right and the Jews were forsaken, what are they afraid of? - David C. Cooper from Bookmarklet

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Have you noticed that Americans are not rioting or killing one another over religious issues? That's how modern Western democracies are supposed to work -- strict separation of church and state. - Sean McBride

Sean, have you noticed which side is inciting a riot and which is simply trying to keep the peace enforcing the law? Which side in this conflict has a history of taking extraordinary measures to avoid unnecessary violence? Besides, where do you think America's founding fathers got the model for our constitution? FYI America is NOT a democracy. - David C. Cooper

David -- you are mired down in an ugly holy war in the Mideast, as the result of your religious fundamentalist beliefs. None for me, thanks. There are more important fish to fry. - Sean McBride

David -- after you study the intellectual history of the U.S. Constitution, including The Enlightenment, John Locke, Voltaire, Diderot, Montesquieu, Rousseau, Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson, get back to me. Here is one starting point for the discussion: http://www.three-peaks.net/annette... These luminaries despised religious fanaticism and theocracies, which is why they... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, your sources are so flagrantly biased they've completely abandoned the realm of reason and for insane conspiracy theory. Why don't you read something written by the founders themselves instead of biased analysis by paranoid atheists looking to justify their beliefs? I'd recommend "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine as a starting place for you. The founders were not trying to eliminate religion they were trying to escape religious persecution. - David C. Cooper

David -- I've studied in depth all the founding works of the American Republic -- apparently you haven't. Obviously you haven't read the book you just recommended -- Thomas Paine's Common Sense. Why don't you try quoting for us Thomas Paine's remarks on religion. - Sean McBride

Thomas Paine from The Age of Reason: "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church." Ring any bells, David? - Sean McBride

Thomas Paine from The Age of Reason: "Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange believe that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies." - Sean McBride

Thomas Paine from The Age of Reason: "Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistant that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel." - Sean McBride

You mean like: "Every religion is good that teaches man to be good; and I know of none that instructs him to be bad. " or "I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy." It may surprise you to find that in Judaism it is a tradition to question and struggle with our scripture, a tradition which Paine obviously understood. - David C. Cooper

I made Aliyah in 2005 and visited the Temple Mount. We were forced to wait for several hours, our pictures were taken and our names logged in a book they have only for Torah observant Jews. Once on the Temple Mount, I was overcome with emotion because I've dreamed of walking up there for most of my life. I started crying and the Muslim police surrounded me, screaming at me that Jews... more... - Bob Martin

David: Thomas Paine: "My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." Clearly Paine wasn't referring to the Bible, on which he heaped contempt. He redefined religion in his terms as an expression of Enlightenment ideals. Jefferson did the same thing when he rewrote the Bible. All of this is familiar territory to students of American intellectual history. Do you think you can just breeze by those three Paine quotes just posted without acknowledging them? - Sean McBride

Thomas Paine: "We must be compelled to hold this doctrine to be false, and the old and new law called the Old and New Testament, to be impositions, fables and forgeries." - Sean McBride

Sean, You also fail to note that in The Age of Reason Paine is speaking out against the New Testament version of the Bible. Here is some more reading for you: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz... http://www.tabletmag.com/news-an... Or how about a quote from Thomas Jefferson "happy in the restoration of the Jews, particularly to their... more... - David C. Cooper

Bob, thank you for sharing such difficult memories. Unfortunately people like Sean cannot see that their own brand of fanaticism is as dangerous to the peaceful existence of mankind as any other. - David C. Cooper

Fanaticism is a poison in the human psyche and always finds a way to manifest. Thanks for the intelligent comments. All the best... - Bob Martin

David: what is "fanatical" about presenting accurate quotes from Thomas Paine strongly criticizing the Bible and the Judeo-Christian tradition (none of which you have challenged), and in pointing out that the visionaries who founded America sought to escape the narrow-minded and fundamentalist kind of thinking which had kept the Old World mired down in vicious holy wars over religious doctrine? - Sean McBride

I can easily think of dozens of places around the world I much prefer to Jerusalem as havens of enlightened human culture, and in which I would much prefer to live (London, Rome, Paris, Stockholm, Manhattan, San Francisco, Boston/Cambridge, Seattle, Vancouver, etc.). Jerusalem seems to attract the attention predominantly of religious zealots, few of whom actually choose to live there.... more... - Sean McBride

The New York Times on today's incident: "The Israeli police chief, David Cohen, said the disturbances were precipitated by calls from right-wing Jewish activists and an Islamist group, the Islamic Movement, for their supporters to ascend the mount on Sunday. Anticipating violence, hundreds of riot police officers took up positions in and around the Old City, prompting Muslims to accuse Israel of provocation." - Sean McBride

Bob -- you managed to misrepresent my views on every point you mentioned! -- quite a performance. :) I don't hate religion -- I've spent some effort studying and learning from world religions, including Zen Buddhism and Judaism. Nor do I necessarily agree with Thomas Paine's harsh remarks about the Bible -- I was simply trying to point out that the American Founding Fathers were hostile... more... - Sean McBride

Bob -- your hostility towards Christianity ("xianity") and Islam, which you consider to be false messianic cults within the Abrahamic tradition, is motivated by your indoctrination in Judaism, right? And many Muslims and Christians feel the same way about the other two major branches of monotheism. Your post proves my point. - Sean McBride

article(Jpost.com staff; Braverman: Rabbis' call to go up to Temple Mount hurts the State; Jerusalem Post; October 26, 2009 http://www.jpost.com/servlet...) "Minister for Minority Affairs, MK Avishay Braverman (Labor) said that the call by rabbis for Jews to ascend the Temple Mount hurt Israel and that the provocation is... more... - Sean McBride

All those cities you named where you'd prefer to live will eventually be dominated by Muslims. From first-hand experience, I assure you they'll have no tolerance for you. It's not Jews who look forward to an Apocalyptic "end time" but Xians and Muslims. And even in this they find it necessary to copy Daniel's prophetic text. Something to contemplate. Be Seeing You. - Bob Martin

Bob -- On what empirical and rational grounds do you claim that, say, Manhattan, San Francisco and Boston will eventually be dominated by Muslims? And why would you prefer to live in Jerusalem over the cities I mentioned? - Sean McBride

Bob -- why do you spell "Christian" as "xian" and "Christianity" as "xianity"? - Sean McBride

Sean, your fanaticism stems from your personal crusade against what you call "Abrahamic cults." You've swallowed so much misinformation about religions that you actually believe religions have been the cause of the major world conflicts and atrocities. Some how you completely ignore the fact that the worst violence perpetrated by man against man has been initiated by atheists and... more... - David C. Cooper

David -- is this the kind of tolerance you were referring to that one finds in Jerusalem? article(Anne Barker; Reporter feels mob's hate in the Holy City; ABC News; August 25, 2009 http://www.abc.net.au/news...) "Spit like rain I found myself herded against a brick wall as they kept on spitting - on my face, my hair, my clothes, my arms. It was... more... - Sean McBride

David -- the American Founding Fathers were well aware of the destructive and self-destructive religious wars between Roman Catholics and Protestants that had wracked Europe for centuries. The Enlightenment emerged in great part as a reaction to those holy wars -- many Europeans and Americans had had quite enough of that nonsense. You really do need to acquire an education in modern... more... - Sean McBride

"As to the book called the Bible, it is blasphemy to call it the Word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions, and a history of bad times and bad men. There are but a few good characters in the whole book." [Thomas Paine, Letter to William Duane, April 23, 1806] - Sean McBride

Sean, it is telling that the first example of what I called "violent clashes" that you can find seems to implicate Jews. Were you unable to find any other examples of violence involving non-Jews? Is also ironic that in this example the very worst behavior cited is that the woman was being spit upon. While I sympathize with this woman's horrific experience I think it hardly compares with the topic of this thread in which Muslims are throwing rocks, which can easily kill a full grown man, and not just spit - David C. Cooper

Bob -- can you name the three individuals whose ideas were most influential in the composition of the U.S. Constitution? And are you familiar with their views on religion, and on Judaism in particular? Do you know who was the primary author of U.S. Constitution? Are you familiar with his views on religion? Your statements on this subject so far have been radically out of touch with historical reality, and seem to be motivated by cult beliefs, not based on objective scholarship. - Sean McBride

Bob -- why do you spell "Christian" as xian? The spelling doesn't convey a sense of respect. - Sean McBride

Bob -- your assertion that Paine focused his disgust on the Christian part of the Bible is false. Yet another Paine quote: "The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion. It has been the most destructive to the peace of man since man began... more... - Sean McBride

Sean: Not only could I name them, I could tell you what they had for breakfast on April 1, 1776, and other trivial details. And then what? You're living in a very restricted world and think that just because you don't know something it isn't true or doesn't exist. In Kabbalistic terms, this is the realm of Samael -- Do some research. The Constitution was inspired mainly by Torah, in... more... - Bob Martin

Bob -- you didn't mention any names. The "Father of the Constitution" is generally considered to be James Madison, who was especially concerned about maintaining a strict separation between church and state. Three thinkers who strongly influenced the Constitution were Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Thomas Paine. We've seen what Paine thought about the Bible in the above quotes. If... more... - Sean McBride

Sean: You're a mile wide and an inch deep. By strict definition an idiot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.... Information about the influence of Torah on the Framers is available. David provided two good links to get you started. Study them. I know Prof. Eidelberg and his research is solid. Enough of this sophistic bullshit. Revert to Islam - they always welcome another idiot to their herd. - Bob Martin

Bob -- can you point to any praise for the Torah, or acknowledgments of its influence on their thinking, in the writings of Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and other American Founding Fathers? Shouldn't it be rather a giveaway that the American Founding Fathers were strongly opposed to theocracies, and that the Torah is intensely theocratic at the core? And why would you... more... - Sean McBride

Bob -- are you referring to Paul Eidelberg, the head of the Yasmim Israel Party? "The party was founded during the term of the 13th Knesset in the mid 1990s when Shaul Gutman broke away from Moledet, another right-wing party. The party ran in the 1996 elections, but failed to cross the electoral threshold of 1.5% and did not win a seat. In the 2003 elections the party ran a joint list... more... - Sean McBride

Bob -- I just ordered a copy of Eidelberg's book through interlibrary loan: book(Paul Eidelberg; The Philosophy of the American Constitution: A Reinterpretation of the Intentions of the Founding Fathers; 1968; Free Press http://www.amazon.com/dp...) I've browsed around a bit and discovered that it has had little impact on mainstream scholarship on the intellectual origins of... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, since you venerate the American founders here is a quote for you: John Adams wrote, "I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation." Adams added, "I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the... more... - David C. Cooper

David -- some of the American Founding Fathers reinvented the Western monotheistic tradition within a Deist framework -- much as both Christianity and Islam reinvented elements of Judaism to suit their own purposes. They combined these strains of thought with the Greek and Roman traditions, the Common Law legal tradition, British skepticism and dissent, and the European Enlightenment.... more... - Sean McBride

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?" -- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815 - Sean McBride

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" -- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816 - Sean McBride

"Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it." -- John Adams, letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816, from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief - Sean McBride

Sean, you claim that the founders "reinvented" western religion. Are you claiming that the Constitutional Republic they created here in the U.S. is a new religion? And if they "despised" theocratic ideologies why would they create a new one to replace the old? I would agree that the founders drew from all of the sources you mentioned to develop the system of government we used to enjoy... more... - David C. Cooper

Sean, re: John Adams to Thomas Jefferson June 20, 1815 – I would agree with John Adams. G-d created man with free will for a reason. He wants us to choose to follow his laws not be compelled or forced. - David C. Cooper

David -- no: the Founders did not create a new religion or theocracy. They created a political system based on rational thought, and which is open-ended, subject to endless revision and reinvention as our knowledge of the universe improves. And I agree with you that the Jewish tradition as a whole is a treasure house of valuable ideas and values, including skepticism and "wrestling with God," that has played a central and positive role in the development of American culture. - Sean McBride

Sean, re: John Adams, letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816. Okay, so Adams is questioning how "fables, tales and legends" from other cultures have been grafted onto Jewish and Xian theology and how those additions have contributed to making them appear more violent than they were to begin with. Note that I would not dream of denying that there are some terribly... more... - David C. Cooper

Sean, re: John Adams, letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816 (the second quote from this source that you posted above) I would absolutely agree that superstition and dogma cannot confine man's G-d given free will. It is central to Judaism that we argue and question everything. - David C. Cooper

Sean, so where is the new monotheistic tradtion within a deist framework that you described? - David C. Cooper

David -- I think Adams' point was that violent and irrational superstitions and bigotry are deeply enwound in the Judeo-Christian tradition itself. And I agree with you that Judaism as a whole (especially Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism) has worked diligently to process, reinterpret and expunge much of that cruft in positive ways. - Sean McBride

David -- where is the new tradition that the Enlightenment set in motion? We're in the midst of it. It's a process. It's part of a perpetual pursuit for truth. We're figuring it out as we go along. - Sean McBride

Irrational superstition and bigotry are hard-wired in the Human Prototype. Atheism has produced tyrants who equal any King or Priest in brutality against those who disagree with them. For example: Jacobins, Marxists, and students of Jean-Paul Sarte. - Bob Martin

True enough: secular messianic movements produced 100 million deaths in the 20th century alone: Marxism, Nazism, Stalinism, Maoism, etc. And in many cases religion has served as a brake on totalitarianism and genocidal barbarity. - Sean McBride

Superstition and bigotry are mechanisms in our psyche that have a destructive purpose. When we balance them with a relationship with our common Creator we can learn to turn away from destructive mechanisms and pick up the constructive mechanisms of cooperation and teamwork. The path to peace in this story would be for the Islamic authorities whom the nation of Israel has entrusted to... more... - David C. Cooper

David -- you finally said something I can agree with -- all religions should be allowed to pray peacefully everywhere in Jerusalem. Jerusalem should become the world capital of religious tolerance instead of the world capital of religious fanaticism and hatred. - Sean McBride

It's been quite a while, but I've read everything he wrote and don't recall Thomas Paine writing this anywhere and am fairly certain I'd remember him saying this. What about Mocka? Or how about your living room? The only religious fanaticism and hatred in Jerusalem is that found in Islam and most (but not all) xian groups who agitate against Jewish sovereignty there. - Bob Martin

Bob -- which specific Thomas Paine quote are you disputing? Why do you spell "Christian" as "xian"? And are you really claiming that there is no Jewish religious fanaticism or hatred revolving around Jerusalem? That only Muslims and Christians are to blame? - Sean McBride

Bob -- more regarding Thomas Paine's views on the Bible: "In the following letter Thomas Paine replies to a friend who recently tried to oblige Paine to accept Christianity and the Bible as the “word of God.” Paine in no uncertain terms makes it clear to his friend that no discerning gentleman will accept the Bible as the word of God. In Paine’s opinion, “the Bible is a gross libel... more... - Sean McBride

Thomas Paine is like Moses to you, and his writings the equivalent of Torah (sacred, indisputable revelation). I don't recall Paine-Moses giving a mitzvah to make Yerushalayim a place of prayer for all people. I've already answered the xian thing. Modern "xian zionist" rhetoric aside, from the perspective of theology and eschatology, xianity and islam share a basic view of Jews, and a... more... - Bob Martin

Bob -- 1. I am my own Moses, and I don't blindly agree with everything Thomas Paine wrote. This subject only came up because David Cooper claimed that Paine was a fan of the Torah -- that is a wildly false statement. The record has now been corrected. 2. I didn't see your explanation for the spelling of "Christian" as "xian." What is the ideological and doctrinal background on that peculiar habit? And do you respect Christianity as a religion and belief system? - Sean McBride

You're a broken record (or in these days, a glitched CD track). Good that you confess what you are: "a self-made man who worships his creator." The misanthrope alcoholic Paine figures large in your "self-made men" pantheon. You just didn't read what I said about writing xian. Around age 9 or 10 I started writing xian, xianity. Already at that age I understood what xians had done to Jews... more... - Bob Martin

Bob -- so your point of view is that Christianity is a false religion and that Christians are brainwashed? The "xianity" spelling is your way of expressing contempt for Christianity as a whole? By the way, with which branch of Judaism are you affiliated? Ultra-Orthodox, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist? Which Jewish thinkers have most influenced you? - Sean McBride

Bob -- is the Noahide movement closely associated with Chabad-Lubavitch, Menachem Mendel Schneerson and Billy Jack Dial? - Sean McBride

B'nai No'ah was started by Vendyl Jones and R' Meir Kahane ZT'L HY'D. Other Torah-observant Rabbis quickly joined the movement and today there are many B'nai No'ah groups, Chabad sponsoring some of them. Fearing political repercussions, Rabbis at the 1990 founding ceremony refused to appear on the same stage as Rav Kahane. Vendyl arranged for Rav Kahane to speak after the convention. The video of his speech is here http://www.youtube.com/user... - Bob Martin

Bob -- thanks for the historical background on the movement. - Sean McBride

I wonder why Friendfeed isn't pushing this thread towards the top of the queue for this group when new comments are added -- I noticed the new comments only by accident, and could have easily missed them. - Sean McBride

Wikipedia; Vendyl Jones http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Sean McBride

Bob: have you seen these two articles today? article(Amos Harel; Alleged Jewish terrorist arrested for murder, series of bomb attacks; Haaretz; November 1, 2009 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen...) and article(Chaim Levinson; Who is suspected Jewish terrorist Yaakov Teitel?; Haaretz; November 1, 2009 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen...) How likely do you think it is that Teitel has Kahanist connections? - Sean McBride

Bob: my "ideology": maximize human creativity; minimize human suffering; free speech; freedom of assembly; checks and balances; government transparency and accountability; meritocracy; creative capitalism; scientific inquiry; skepticism; separation of church and state; ethnic and religious tolerance and cooperation - Sean McBride

Sean: 99% of what you say is exactly what Torah is all about. - Bob Martin

David Hall to David's feed, Middle East Discussion, Iranian Embassy in Friendfeed

Iranelection #Iran hails Turkey's nuclear support (and kisses goodbye to EU membership) - Aljazeera.net - http://news.google.com/news... (via http://friendfeed.com/iranwat...)

October 27 - Comment - Like - Share

David Hall to David's feed, Middle East Discussion, Iranian Embassy in Friendfeed, The Iranian Green Wave

Reza Pahlavi writes for Huffington Post: Cries for Democracy in Iran #iranelection #iran - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/reza-pa...

October 27 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

This year marks the thirtieth anniversary of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Thirty years ago, Ruhollah Khomeini returned to Iran from exile to found a totalitarian theocracy -- the likes of which we have not seen for hundreds of years, perhaps even since medieval Europe. Thirty years ago, Iranian militants took American embassy workers hostage. Thirty years ago was the last time I saw Iran. To this day, I have not been able to return. Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/reza-pa... - David Hall from Bookmarklet

David Hall to David's feed, Iranian Embassy in Friendfeed, Middle East Discussion

YouTube - 2009 Iranian Revolution - TRANSLATED Karroubi Video Message with English subtitles October 26 #iranelection - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

October 27 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

David Hall to David's feed, Middle East Discussion

Pallywood Strikes Again 2: France2 vs. Evidence #israel #palestine - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

October 27 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

David Hall to David's feed, Middle East Discussion

Pallywood #israel #palestine - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

October 27 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

David Hall to David's feed, Middle East Discussion

Comedy: Daily Show Goes to Iran #iranelection #iran - http://vimeo.com/7067162

October 27 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

"Daily Show Goes to Iran" - David Hall from Bookmarklet

David Hall to David's feed, Middle East Discussion

Anti-Bahai Pograms, Then and Now « IRAN RISES - http://www.qlineorientalist.com/IranRis...

October 27 - Comment - Like - Share

David Hall to David's feed, Middle East Discussion

Muslim integration in France. Encouraging report for a change. #islam - http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_dai...

October 23 from FreshFeed - Comment - Like - Share

David Hall to David's feed, israelmatzav, Middle East Discussion

CIF Watch: Monitoring & Exposing #Antisemitism on The Guardian Newspaper's CIF Blog #Israel - http://cifwatch.com/

October 19 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

pitlord to pitlord's feed, US Politics, World News & Politics, Global Politics & News, Mideast Politics, Middle East Discussion

Bedouin Town Plans to Expel Illegal Arabs: 'They are a Nuisance' - Inside Israel - Israel News - Israel National News - http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News...

October 18 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

David Hall liked this

Arabs are inciting Arabs in Israel? - pitlord from Bookmarklet

Isn't the emphasis here on ILLEGAL, not Arabs per se? - Sean McBride

David Hall to David's feed, Middle East Discussion, Mark Lane

David Mitchel (yes the guy from peep show) on the real foreign policy drivers in middle east. #politics #iranelection - http://m.guardian.co.uk/...

October 18 from FreshFeed - Comment - Like - Share

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Malysian Insider: Turkey TV series further strains Israel relations #Israel #Turkey #Gaza #Politics - http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index...

October 15 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

JERUSALEM, Oct 15 — A Turkish television drama series depicting an Israeli soldier shooting dead a Palestinian baby put more strain today on relations between Israel and Turkey, a Muslim strategic ally. - David Hall from Bookmarklet

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Parsi Speakers is this 4 Real? : Behnood Shojaei's Case: Mother of victim says she feels better since the execution of Behnood #iranelection - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

October 15 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

pitlord to pitlord's feed, US Politics, Mideast Politics, Middle East Discussion, Politifide, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Bloggers, Conservative Oasis, Fresh Conservatives

CAIR spent $160,000 to silence Savage - http://www.wnd.com/index...

October 14 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

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"Now we have proof – from the secret documents that this investigative team has uncovered, coupled with the ones recently declassified by the FBI – that [radical Islamists] agents living among us have a plan in place, and they are successfully carrying out that subversive plan" - pitlord from Bookmarklet

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House Republicans accuse Muslim group of trying to plant spies - TheHill.com - http://thehill.com/homenew...

October 14 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

"Citing the book, Myrick requested that the Justice Department share with all lawmakers and their chiefs of staff an executive summary of the findings that led the department to name CAIR as a co-conspirator in an anti-terrorism case." - pitlord from Bookmarklet

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US President Barack Obama has been awarded the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize. ~ Hmmmmm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2...

October 9 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Myrna liked this

US President Barack Obama has been awarded the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize. The Nobel Committee said he won it for "his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and co-operation between peoples". The committee highlighted Mr Obama's efforts to support international bodies and promote nuclear disarmament. Mr Obama's spokesman said the president was "humbled" to have won the prize. He said he woke Mr Obama up with the news early on Friday. There were a record 205 nominations for this year's peace prize. Zimbabwean Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai and Chinese dissident Hu Jia had been among the favourites. The laureate - chosen by a five-member committee - wins a gold medal, a diploma and 10m Swedish kronor ($1.4m). - sofarsoShawn

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Yahoo collaborated with Iranian Junta. Add them to disgraced Nokia/Siemens #humanrights #iranelection - http://government.zdnet.com/...

October 8 from FreshFeed - Comment - Like - Share

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Fisking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia #israel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...

October 6 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

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A point-by-point refutation of a blog entry or (especially) news story. A really stylish fisking is witty, logical, sarcastic and ruthlessly factual; flaming or handwaving is considered poor form. Named after Robert Fisk, a British journalist who was a frequent (and deserving) early target of such treatment.[2] - David Hall from Bookmarklet

23 more comments

Actually, Robert Fisk is one of the better journalists covering the Mideast beat. But he's provoked the hysterical enmity of the Israel lobby for the offense of telling the truth about various sensitive issues. - Sean McBride

Ok Sean, I'm going to have to disagree. Fisk is a charlatan and a mountebank beloved by anti semites because he sugar coats his anti semitism in the language of human rights. I have hardly ever made it to the end of one of his articles without nearly choking on one of his many skewed interpretations or simple old fashioned untruths. Although this term, Fisking, is information to me it... more... - David Hall

Provide a few "antisemitic" quotes from Robert Fisk -- let's see what you've got. - Sean McBride

Btw, I haven't got the time atm for any old school back and forth on this. - David Hall

book(Robert Fisk; Pity the Nation: The Abduction of Lebanon; 2002; Nation Books http://www.amazon.com/dp...) From Library Journal: "The labyrinthian tale of Lebanon's destruction has been told a number of times from a number of vantage points, but not since Ze'ev Schiff and Ehud Ya'ari's Israel's Lebanon War ( LJ 10/15/84) has such a powerful book appeared. Fisk, a highly... more... - Sean McBride

What you are saying is that you can't come up with a single "antisemitic" quote from Robert Fisk, and that your accusations above are false and unsupportable. I am surprised that you post to public forums at all. - Sean McBride

Sean I haven't got all day to waste arguing with you. Don't like my shares, here's a hint, ignore them. I was merely sharing my amusement that a "journalist" whose work I consider particularly shoddy had named in his honour a term for the blood sport of ripping garbage logic named after him. Named after him because his work is considered especially vulnerable to that type dismantling.... more... - David Hall from FreshFeed

David Hall -- you still haven't produced any evidence to support your false and defamatory charge that Robert Fisk is "antisemitic," and I doubt that you are able to read any of his books with much comprehension, never mind critique them in a rational and substantive way. You know what I'm talking about, I am sure. - Sean McBride

Sean, DM me your PayPal details and i'll wire you a few bucks to pay for that blowjob you're so sorely in need of. - David Hall from FreshFeed

Do you ever feel like you're out of karmic kilter? - Sean McBride

Damn no, but thankfully you're on hand to share your experience so I don't have to. - David Hall from FreshFeed

Btw, Robert Fisk penned an article in the Independent yesterday which has received close attention all around the world: article(Robert Fisk; The demise of the dollar; The Independent; October 6, 2009 http://www.independent.co.uk/news...) Summary: "In a graphic illustration of the new world order, Arab states have launched secret moves... more... - Sean McBride

I don't remember disputing his influence. - David Hall

You can see in this example of his work why he acquired so much influence -- it's an important article. - Sean McBride

Back on topic, I've seen in most of his articles why the term 'Fisked" is named after him. - David Hall

Some examples? - Sean McBride

Can't be arsed, if you've been such a student of his all these years and haven't noticed for yourself then far be it from me to burst your bubble. Sean, I've told you countless times but I'll say it again, I'm not that bothered about what you think. I entertain no ambitions to change your mind about anything. If you think Fisk is great then go on thinking he's great, please. For me I'm... more... - David Hall

David -- you would have been more effective if you had cited some factual errors by Fisk, instead of unloading that steaming pile of nonsubstantive verbiage. - Sean McBride

Sean why don't you stick to what you do best and that's making multiple comments on single items on your own feed. - David Hall from FreshFeed

A sidenote -- I use my Friendfeed feed largely as a personal notebook, to store quotes and notes attached to bookmarks that I can quickly retrieve in the future. If other people want to look in now and then and offer their own observations and thoughts, cool. - Sean McBride

LOL, if thats the case make your feed private then. - David Hall

David -- this is how Friendfeed works: if you find a personal feed interesting, you can subscribe to it. If you don't, don't subscribe. If you dislike a particular feed, block it. If you post to public groups, you are inviting public comment. It's a great libertarian environment. - Sean McBride

What you said: " I use my Friendfeed feed largely as a personal notebook, to store quotes and notes attached to bookmarks" I responded to what you said. If there's such a gap between what you say and what you mean then you need to learn more about precision in communication or else indicate whether you wish people to respond to what you say or else whether you'd prefer if they took a wild swing at what you really mean. If it's a personal notebook fine, the hint is in the word "personal." - David Hall from FreshFeed

Some of my favorite feeds on Friendfeed are basically personal notebooks -- I'm grateful that the creators make them public. - Sean McBride

David Hall to David's feed, Iranian Embassy in Friendfeed, The Iranian Green Wave, Iran Election Watch, Middle East Discussion

US Officials: Iran's behavior will bring penalties #iranelection #iran - http://www.breitbart.com/article...

October 6 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

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Administration officials told impatient lawmakers Tuesday that they are ready to take swift and substantial action against Iran if it disregards current diplomatic efforts to stop its alleged nuclear weapons program. - David Hall from Bookmarklet

7 more comments

According to most experts on the subject, sanctions will have little impact on the situation. They are posturing. - Sean McBride

Most experts? Who do you have in mind, Robert Fisk, Juan Cole, Nat King Cole? Anyway, I've yet to make my own mind up as to whether or not I'm in favour of sanctions. I've seen self appointed experts argue both sides of the argument and can't see evidence for any consensus. Is there some "Experts Aggregator" you pull these pronouncements of yours from or is that you engaging in wishful thinking. - David Hall from FreshFeed

I've got a curious ability to scan huge swathes of information quickly and to extract the signal from the noise. The signal on this issue is that international support for sanctions is weak (especially from China and Russia), and that a sanctions regime will be too leaky to exert much effective impact on Iran. The sanction promoters are being driven by angry emotions, not by rational calculations. They are lashing out -- much like they lashed out at Iraq after 9/11. Losers. - Sean McBride

"Losers" Sean I think you're letting your emotions get the better of you again. Curiously I got the impression that they are victors. A hollow victory it may be but the owner of the loser tag is the Saddam regime last time I looked. - David Hall from FreshFeed

David -- you're not a strategic thinker. Spending several trillion dollars to hand over Iraq to Iran is a fail of monumental proportions. And any American or Israeli attack on Iran would be a big strategic win for China and Russia. - Sean McBride

Oh Sean you're such a visionary. I'm just not able for you at all. But Sean you're more than a visionary, you're a big hearted humanitarian too and everyone knows how completly you got me beat with all that strategic thinking of your's so why not take the path of peace, taking strategic considerations into account, avoid unnecessary conflict and leave me to make a fool of myself. After... more... - David Hall from FreshFeed

David -- what impact do you think sanctions would have on Iran, and on the American interest? How do you envision a sanctions policy playing out? What do you predict would be the results of sanctions? - Sean McBride

Sean when I've made my mind up I'll get back to you. - David Hall

David Hall to David's feed, Middle East Discussion

White House angry at General Stanley McChrystal speech on #Afghanistan - Telegraph - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news...

October 6 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

The relationship between President Barack Obama and the commander of Nato forces in Afghanistan has been put under severe strain by Gen Stanley McChrystal's comments on strategy for the war. - David Hall from Bookmarklet

3 more comments

It's simple: Obama should fire him for insubordination. - Sean McBride

Interestingly BBC's Newsnight led with the story that the UK "brass" are furious with Obama as, according to them Obama's "dithering" is costing young British soldiers their lives and limbs. They're firmly with McChrystal on this issue. There appears to be strategy vacum at the heart if the Obama administration which is pulling young lives into it's orbit. - David Hall from FreshFeed

There is no conceivable way that this foreign occupation of Afghanistan can end as anything other than a major policy failure for the US and Britain. But all ventures of this kind are profitable for the military-industrial complex. Big bucks to be made. - Sean McBride

Yeah right on Sean, stick it to the man, it's all one big military industrial, neo-con, imperialist, Zionist, Enron, Unilever, Masonic, neo-liberal, Fox News plot against innocent peaceloving innocents. - David Hall from FreshFeed

pitlord to pitlord's feed, US Politics, Global Politics & News, World News & Politics, Politifide, Mideast Politics, Middle East Discussion

Pakistan discovers 'village' of white German al-Qaeda insurgents - Telegraph - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news...

September 25 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

David Hall liked this

I guess the Nazi Arab connection is as strong as ever. I guess they'll take any opportunity they can to kill Jews. - pitlord from Bookmarklet