Can you remind me again where to find those stats?
- Brian Johns
Brian, go to "Me" link (http://friendfeed.com/brianjo...) which defaults to the Feed tab. Look at the sidebar on the right, below Discussion.
- Micah
0.75 (926/1226) - still relatively new here
- mikepk
I only see my stats for the last week (17/14 = 1.21) Please tell me your 670 number is for more than just a week!
- Brian Johns
1.44 (566/391) for brianjohns (after week tally you should see a comma then 'all time' count - I can see it on your page)
- Micah
OK, sorry. I'm a total dumbass. I stopped reading after the weekly totals...
- Brian Johns
3.74, which seems way off of everybody else's. I wonder what that says. I comment a lot more than I like.
- Cyrus Lendvay
FFers use FF with their own strategy or simply default tendencies. The ratio is an interesting snapshot of behaviour. Thanks for joining in everyone, hope more keep flowing in.
- Micah
from twhirl
0.66 - I tend to 'like' things without needing to comment further, I guess, and I notice I usually like the things upon which I comment. Well, frequently.
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
.39 (2457/6242) I guess I don't comment much. I do 'like' a lot of things, it would seem.
- Bren
0.62 then again i have over 11,000 comments
- Cee Bee
1.23 (5287/4229) - I am put to shame by Cee Bee's participation, good grief!
- Lindsay
So far: Average: 1.27 | Median: 0.81 ... (if you average 1 comment per like, you'd be 1.0 ... if you're 0.xx you might herd content more than discuss ... if you're whole numbers above 1 you may not 'like' much or discuss plenty or both)
- Micah
InPerpetualMotion(Gina k), I really liked this 'Like' of yours (in a series of pics, so I flickr fav'd it): http://friendfeed.com/e... and commented. Thanks!
- Micah
.68 6986/10194 Someone wrote a great article on the comment-like ratio a few months ago. Search on FriendFeed is crashing on me... I'll try to get the link.
- Mitchell Tsai
Thanks Mitchell (btw, search crashing on me too - lots)
- Micah
1316 comments/20221 likes (0.06), according to Windows Calculator, although I probably screwed up.
- Tyson Key
A recent change in FF: now the comment count shows total number of comments (previously multiple comments in one thread only counted as one) http://friendfeed.com/e... so all the numbers above are from the old methodology....
- David HC Soul
My new ratio: 0.76 all time (old methodology .52).... this week 1.39
- David HC Soul
Looks like my ratio as flipped again (comments back to dominating again). Seems to match my own awareness I've lately been commenting without Liking (commenting is my inherent recognition of value to me and the additional Like is when it merits an extra bump to help discovery by others).
- Micah
Rick, you mean that face with glasses I photoshopped tint into with an apparently disembodied arm which is actually very much attached to my eldest son? It's mostly just me :)
- Micah
Thanks, Michael. Yes, you have a rising tide of comment percentage (oh, wow, you were one of the originals from January - cool!)
- Micah
Yeah, that's a decent upward rise in comments, Nicholas.
- Micah
.6 (6,000/10,000) 3rd update - Now it's time to flip this on its head. My goal is to have (16,000/16,000) next time I post here. Regardless of what happens, I'm just looking forward to the next 10,000 comments, likes, posts, and new relationships I make here. It's all good!
- Michael Fidler
1.76 (7539/4290) My commenting habits haven't chanced much, but it felt like I clicked Like a lot less, and this ratio confirms that for me.
- Micah
.82 as of right now. edit: on January 8th it was 0.39 -- when I saw that, I decided to make more of an effort to comment. When I hit 10k "likes" I decided I wouldn't "like" anything else until I also had 10k comments.
- Bren
Jimminy, I'm copyrighting every single number. It's kind of a honeypot ;) Actually, it was curiosity mostly, but I also hope to build a sampling (small and self-selecting as it may be) for anyone who might want to analyze it.
- Micah
Wow I didn't realize I was so out of whack!! 12.23 that's got to be a record (and I don't even import my feeds with the summary as a comment)!!
- Chris Myles
Thanks JA, Chris (wow, 12+ is unusual :), Serkan and Nine!
- Micah
Micah.. I told you I take my likes seriously; ). You *might* want to ask (in a separate post) what percentage of likes were used to "bookmark" a post or save it for later VS actually "liking it". I NEVER used like for that.. but I did use a private group that if filled with my own topics (and comments)..
- Chris Myles
Likes are down relative to comments, which matches my much lower frequency of liking. I'm a more selective liker than ever.
- Micah
I don't think I could argue that any particular kind of ratio is "best", because if Lurkers like to Lurk and cultivate (via Likes) and the Chatty-ites love to chat, to pump out much many more comments than Likes, each can be happy and make for a great social experience.
- Micah
wow, what a difference time makes, when i 1st posted on this thread, 6.43%, now = 1.25%, for a 5.18% difference, :o (and this is the earliest post to date i've recovered of my activity on ff)
- chaz2b
chaz, I think there's been a big fluctuation for most people (maybe not that much). This is the oldest post on which you commented that you've recovered?
- Micah
that was my third post... It's interesting to see how the number has changed. of course, I manipulated the number to a degree, because I stopped "liking" things for a while...
- Bren
Bren, the other thing that can seriously throw off someone's stats is a feed that upon each item it imports adds a comment automatically.
- Micah
true. that can seriously inflate comment stats, of course. Then you have someone like RAPatton, who posts a gazillion comments, in part because of his playlist posts where he will list each song in a separate comment. I found, after this post in fact, that I tended to "like" things much more frequently than comment on them, that I was lurking instead of participating. I have changed the way I use ff rather considerably, and I think for the better.
- Bren
In 4 days it will be 1 year since my first recorded stat here. My comments/like were almost a 1:1 ratio then. Now comments are almost double likes for me.
- Micah
75,415 comments/1,286 likes = 58.64 - i wish the auto inserted comments didn't get counted... the true number is probably much much close ot my number of likes
- Chris Heath
1.97%. thanks again micah, this has been a great metric to measure my first year here on ff. As the year went (this being the first record of me being here that i've found): , 6.43%:1.25%:1.97%
- chaz2b
Chris, Bren, thank you. And chaz2b, thank you too - glad it's a special marker for you. :)
- Micah
63.58 (97,534/1,534) -- interesting that my last three digits are the same there, eh? (note, i already posted a month or two ago when i first saw this thread)
- Chris Heath
Last year my comments were around 7000 and likes around 2500, for a ratio of 2.80. I consciously chose to do more liking over the last year. As of today my comments number 10,782 and likes number 7,666, for a ratio of 1.41.
- Stephen Mack
Jason, Stephen - cool. Thanks for keeping updated here. :)
- Micah
Okay, Micah. <----I had to resist the urge not to post that because I know it's going to up my comment count. ;)
- Jenny R
But how many of those primordial, high interest posts are still active. Uh huh. :)
- Micah
Thanks, Morton. BTW, when you posted in February, it was exactly 0.13 also.
- Micah
Jenny, resistance is futile; embrace the rising tide of comments.
- Micah
Comments are more difficult and time consuming than Likes. I'd be happy about a high comment:likes ratio except that many are surely imported from feeds, while every Like is manual.
- Mike Chelen
it has changed to 2.2256 now as Sep, 6 2010.Labor Day. :) I added the date for future references.
- ۳۰ مرغ Loves Y'ALLLLL
I had exactly a 2:1 ratio as previously reported [Aug 30, '09], now I am at: 1.7241:1 ratio. 6,067 comments to 3,519 likes.
- The Ghost of Library Past
Two years later and my ratio has climbed from 3.4 to 4.675. I've got a lot to say, apparently.
- Kevin Fox
Funnily, I didn't notice until after leaving that comment that when I reported my stat in 2009 I also followed it up with "I've got stuff to say." I didn't say it was *new* stuff...
- Kevin Fox
2.91; 6.43% (@ 2yrs ago) 2.33% (@ 1yr ago). for history's sake, this thread was started shortly after i found friendfeed, or friendfeed found me, so it holds a special place in my heart. thanks for keeping it around mr micah
- chaz2b
You're certainly welcome, chaz2b. In some way it feels like a living heirloom to me. :)
- Micah
3 (2.991) (and now the list has become too lengthy for me to track my progress, ;) [dumb me, i have a post not 10 lines ago in history, from 090711 2.91; 6.43% (@ 2yrs ago) 2.33% (@ 1yr ago) ;) ]
- chaz2b
"Jekyll generates a complete website from local text files. The generated files can be served by any standard webserver. The template system supports a blog style layout. Specialized languages such as Markdown are supported through Gems. Jekyll is compatible with Git version control. Tested on Ubuntu Server 11.10 Oneiric."
- Mike Chelen
from Bookmarklet
"Image at left: "Seattle activist Dorli Rainey, 84, reacts after being hit with pepper spray during an Occupy Seattle protest on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 at Westlake Park." Seattle Post-Intelligencer photographer Joshua Trujillo captured this shot, along with other shots of Seattle Police officers using pepper spray to disperse a crowd."
- Son of Groucho
from Bookmarklet
although it is not any less shocking when done to an 18 year old! Or at least it shouldnt be.
- Iphigenie
It shouldn't be, but for me, it is. We are taught to respect our elders. This shows none.
- Shevonne
from Android
this is illustration of how scared are powers-that-be... I wonder now, can US population at large get rid of self-elected government at all? or whole democracy theater exists to add smell and taste of legitimacy for gang at power?
- A. T.
It's always inappropriate to mace peaceful protestors. When the victim is a younger person, viewers may imagine that they were somehow resisting violently. However when an old or infirm person is the target, it is instantly apparent that they could not have been a threat to the police officers.
- Mike Chelen
@Mike That is true as well. What the hell can a 84-year old woman do? I guess none of these officers have grandmothers.
- Shevonne
I'm not sure I like the idea of paying, especially on a monthly basis for a subscription, once I have to foot the bill, and also if free cloud-based services exist and can do a half decent job...
- Jason Snyder
I'm more worried about the NIH devoting itself to one provider... people should have the freedom to pick a ELN that suites them, and the organization should be careful not to fall for the Vendor Lockin trap... they should pick a provider that strongly supports Open Standards...
- Egon Willighagen
Personally I would run screaming in the opposite direction at this point. Trying to standardise across the NIH with anything that describes itself as an ELN is very like to be a disaster IMO
- Cameron Neylon
from twhirl
data portability is the keystone for software selection, because however perfectly any program meets today's standards, in the future those requirements are sure to change
- Mike Chelen
I May give ELNs a try, just to see what I'm missing, but you all bring up some key points that make them pretty unattractive. I think the take home message for me is to spend a few hours deciding how exactly to best organize my lab notebook. Currently, it's a mix of lab books, sheets of paper, google calendar, google notebook (which isn't even being maintained by google), and a bunch of files stored remotely via dropbox...all the info's there, just not so cohesive.
- Jason Snyder
I've been working with a small outfit called BioKM to get them to support data portability and open standards, but so far I haven't been able to get much of a committment from them regarding how open data and data portability fits into their roadmap. Hopefully this thread will help them see the importance. (In case anyone's wondering, that's my strategy to get more support for open science - help the service providers get a clue about what customers want in this regard)
- Mr. Gunn
Gunn: what do you recommend for data potability? XML maybe? We just released Samples (scimatic.com/samples) and I'd like to look into doing more in regards to data portability
- Jamie McQuay
from iPhone
I would have said XML some year ago, but now I'd say RDF using Open Specification namespaces, like FOAF, DOAP, Dublin Core, BIBO, ...
- Egon Willighagen
Egon: thanks for the info, will be looking into more exportability in our next point release of Samples.
- Jamie McQuay
+1 Egon, and thanks. RDF FTW I need to turn on comment notification or something.
- Mr. Gunn
Followup the NIH evaluation process, recently the Scientific Directors have decided that each researcher is free to choose the electronic lab notebook that best suites their needs. During the committee evaluation, Sparklix e-Notebook received high praises for its ease of use, reach functionality and the included support. this electronic lab notbook is free, I would give it a try - http://www.sparklix.com/signup
- Roi Paz
I NEED music most of the time, but a restricted range of kinds, and volume is usually lower than more casual listening. Definitely no TV or video.
- Tinfoil 2.0
I am no longer able to anything at 100% any of time, regardless of whether or not there is also music.
- Friar Will (:^)
I study under 100% without music... So, I guess, yeah. I also need to be able to move around, pace, whatever. I'm a kinesthetic learner.
- Lisa L. Seifert | FHG™
I'm not able to study at 100% capacity ever.
- chrisofspades
I used to always have music playing in the background as a programmer and student. Now, I find it distracting. I actually do suffer from an inability to study at 100% capacity, though. I think the music used to give my mind some type of continuity with stuff I was used to doing. Now, I don't really do the same things.
- Rah-PM 2012
Actually, instrumental music will help me sometimes. Anything with words will be distracting.
- John (bird whisperer)
"Jerry Spencer had an idea after Alabama's tough new law against illegal immigration scared Hispanic workers out of the tomato fields northeast of Birmingham: Recruit unemployed U.S. citizens to do the work, give them free transportation and pay them to pick the fruit and clean the fields. After two weeks, Spencer said Monday, the experiment is a failure. Jobless resident Americans lack the physical stamina and the mental toughness to see the job through, he said, and there's not much of a chance a new state program to fill the jobs will fare better."
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
Why couldn't the original workers be granted visas or citizenship? Clearly they were contributing to the local economy. Labor is a valuable resource and throwing it away is going to cause problems.
- Mike Chelen
BECAUSE THIS IS AMERICA!!! We don't do sensible politics here!!! NOT IN MY COUNTRY /s
- LANjackal
Maybe because US citizens lack the mind numbing fear to put up with crap wages, dirty unsafe sexist workplace with no water or place to take a shit... In short a business built on powerless illegals is unlikely to work well with actual American workers who don't fear ICE round up Epic Fail there Republican asshat More money and OSHA safe get your fruit picked but that aint "economical" in da Deep South
- WarLord
"A 25-person team of citizens recently picked and processed about 200 boxes in a day, he said, earning each member only $24. ." ... I'm a little skeptical... that works out to 8 boxes a person, or (assuming a citizen farm worker worked just 8 hours) a box an hour. You're telling me even newbies took an hour to fill up a box like the one pictured there?
- Andrew C (✓)
How to Bid on Computing Power -New online exchanges aim to turn computer time into a globally traded commodity. Technology Review - https://www.technologyreview.com/busines...
"Imagine buying time on a computer in Ireland or Indiana the same way you'd bid for an antique on eBay. That's how a new crop of startup companies called "cloud brokerages" plan to change the way companies buy and sell computing capacity. Cloud computing has already made accessing computer power more efficient. Instead of buying computers, companies can now run websites or software by leasing time at data centers run by vendors like Amazon or Microsoft. The idea behind cloud brokerages is to take the efficiency of cloud computing a step further by creating a global marketplace where computing capacity can be bought and sold at auction."
- Wildcat
from Bookmarklet
Been using Amazon EC2 spot instances for a while, great value if you bid when prices are low. More providers would help with price spikes, especially if there are ways to place orders across multiple exchanges.
- Mike Chelen
I'm always wary of any "death of" pronouncements but thought I'd share this provocative post all the same. Pull quote: "For years semantic web purists have been preaching that the future is all about RDF and triples. Yet, in the 12 years that theorists have been working on the semantic web, we’ve yet to see many convincing practical uses for the technology. The graph I’ve included above shows the rise and fall of Web 2.0 job postings compared to job posts requiring semantic web technologies. This makes a pretty clear case that the semantic web simply never took off."
- Stephen Francoeur
I hate deathwatches, but the original concept of the semantic web really never did work--for reasons that have little to do with technology and lots to do with people and language. And since Web2.0 is best understood as a trademarked conference series, the "death" of Web3.0 is irrelevant.
- Walt Crawford
i hate triples... they just seem really impoverished way of describing anything....but our sponsors are still interested in semantic web
- Christina Pikas
For me, it's just that PEOPLE DO NOT THINK THIS WAY. I can explain topic maps in a couple hours with reference to back-of-book indexes -- I can even go pretty far into the weeds with 'em. They just *make sense*. Once you get past the basic idea of the triple, RDF immediately zooms into Computer Scientists Only Zone. (And computer scientists who never learned a damn thing about human language or trust relationships, too.)
- RepoRat
I don't think I'm stupid. I do *know* that after several years of run-ins with RDF, and reviewing a book on it, I still don't understand it, can't explain it, and can't do anything useful with it. (Slight exception: I could recast a thesaurus in SKOS if I had to. That's not hard.)
- RepoRat
I suspect the fundamental problem with Semantic Web (capital S, capital W) goes further than triples: The asserted "make everything wonderful" applications require everyone to tag everything as triples in great detail, *using the same language and assumptions* to tag them. And the early examples were a lot of effort to make the easy stuff...well, no easier.
- Walt Crawford
My guess: If Sir Tim's name hadn't been attached to the term--hell, if he hadn't coined the term--the *concepts* would have been useful, as they are, for niche applications, and that would have been fine. (I'll always treasure having told him, to his face, that it wasn't going to happen...)
- Walt Crawford
Does SW have to mean RDF only? For example the metadata that Google search uses to identify different sections of a page is quite helpful.
- Mike Chelen
No, it doesn't, unless you ask an RDF-head. *g* That's what Google's schema.org attempt to derail RDF-on-the-web is about.
- RepoRat
If semantic can refer to other structured data on the web, perhaps RSS should be considered a successful example?
- Mike Chelen
#SaturdayFF It really is killing me that I couldn't swing those improv classes. I feel like I'm almost part of a thing, but no matter what I do I'm just treading water. I feel like that a lot.
Dude, I feel ya. I know a lot of comics that can nail a stand-up routine, but struggle with improv.
- Brent
I enjoy both stand-up and improv for very different reasons. Stand-up is very solitary and a total feeling of control. Improv is about teamwork and letting go of control.
- Joe "Looptid" Pierce
I'm pretty good at improvising; I'm just not always funny. There's a school of story-telling improv here that focuses less on laughs and more on the story: funny, sad, surreal or whatever. That comes more easily to me. But I prefer stand-up. I like crafting material.
- Brent
from fftogo
I know Google Forms, Survey Monkey and Lime Survey. Desired non-usual features: Embed (or link to) files that are already on the web, handle non-ASCII fonts (e.g. Korean).
- Daniel Mietchen
SurveyMonkey has a nice interface for forms, what are the export options for free accounts? Google Forms / Spreadsheets are handy because the results are immediately available through a spreadsheet, where calculations and charts can be added.
- Mike Chelen
Crowd Sourcing. OK, so next Thursday afternoon ahead of #solo11 myself and @PodDelusion will be recording a podcast with 2 of the team from The Guardian's Science Weekly podcast and one of their top health correspondents. It will be of an informal nature, but we need some science questions to throw to the guys from The Guardian.
Post herewith any thoughts/questions/suggestions you have. Thanks in advance. The recording will be uploaded to http://poddelusion.co.uk/blog/ shortly thereafter.
- Graham Steel
"We also made spreadsheet charts more powerful and easier to work with. After you create a chart, it’s now simpler to copy an image of your chart and embed it into a document or drawing. There are more chart types to choose from now, too—from candlestick and combo charts to GeoMaps and TreeMaps."
- Mike Chelen
from Bookmarklet
"1. You can’t safely spill sunscreen or wine on an electronic device, or get sand in it. 2. You can’t share books on a device. I can’t even get e-books I bought on one device onto another device I own. E-books torpedo domestic and friendly sharing. 3. They could do the same to the second hand book market. 4. You can’t cut and paste quotes from an e-book. Their makers are so paranoid about “intellectual property theft” that to quote from an e-book, I have to retype the whole thing. 5. How are you supposed to refer others to specific pages of the text – e.g. in a footnote? Floating “locations” have replaced fixed “pages”. Will authors have to start numbering their paragraphs, as if in a mediaeval manuscript? 6. I hate the smallness of the screen. I read quickly so have to keep thumbing to the next “page” and get thumb-ache. I hate having to keep scrolling back by several “locations” to go back to something rather than just turning back a page. 7. I can’t see what other people are reading when I’m on the train. This used to offer moments of delight."
- Adriano
from Bookmarklet
1. True with current devices 2. Bluetooth, WiFi? 3. Who cares 4. Yes you can, if you get a good format of ebook 5. Good question which is solvable 6. Get a bigger screen 7. Try asking
- Mike Chelen
Technical books do not look great on e-book reader while I think they work very well for text based books such as novels.
- Ashish
"We’re pleased to announce that the PLoS Article-Level Metrics API is now available! Since March 2009, we’ve been aggregating metrics for every article with the PLoS Article-Level Metrics application and displaying the data on articles published at PLoS. Now the Article-Level Metrics API is available for the community to retrieve the same data and to create mash-ups with the metrics. If you’ve entered the PLoS/Mendeley Binary Battle, this is also an additional source to use along with the PLoS Search API."
- Mike Chelen
from Bookmarklet
And frankly, I like adding friends with whom I have a low compatibility. It helps me hear music I never would have found in the first place. I never would have listened to a lot of my favorite music if someone hadn't said, "just try it."
- Ciaoenrico
Heh, "Music you have in common includes ABBA and Depeche Mode"...
- Tyson Key
Your musical compatibility with koltregaskes is Very Low. Music you have in common includes Sneaker Pimps, Hybrid, Snake River Conspiracy, VAST and The Boxer Rebellion. (that's because I listen to a lot of obscure stuff) http://www.last.fm/user/app103
- April
http://www.last.fm/listen... BTW, I send my Blip.FM feed to Last.FM. I fell asleep several times while listening to Blip, so there's some music in there that I don't necessarily like. But, for the most part, it's mine.
- Michael Fidler
If I played my 'best of the best' playlist one day would anyone be interested? It's 45 songs and iTunes tells me it's 4 hours. I can post a FF message when I start and finish and you can check the tunes out.
- Kol Tregaskes
Welp. Ya'll have been friended and oddly enough I only had 4 with high compatibility. Lucky for me that means there is a lot more music our there that I need to be turned on to. Thanks, Kol! :-)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
I plan to submit a session on collaborative platforms for open science and possibly another one on "Research funding 2.0" (cf. http://ff.im/9SvED ). Anyone interested in teaming up? Deadline for submissions is 30 June 2011.
- Daniel Mietchen
from Bookmarklet
Daniel: What type of platforms are you interested in covering?
- Mike Chelen
My favourites would be wikis and GitHub, though others (e.g. Etherpads/ Google docs, Bazaar) could also be possible.
- Daniel Mietchen
There are a number of exciting aspects for wiki platforms and GitHub, been having alot of fun with Git-backed wikis and GH pages lately. Etherpad and Google docs are also great examples, and supposedly the EP tech will be integrated with GDocs eventually. Don't have much experience with Bazaar however it does seem popular for some software projects such as Ubuntu.
- Mike Chelen
The Panton Principles banner is now live over at BioMed Central http://www.biomedcentral.com/ Haven't spotted it yet myself but I am reliably informed !!
I take that back - Just spotted it "Panton Principles - Open Data Means Better Science". with a direct link to http://pantonprinciples.org/ RESULT !! (BMC are currently running with abt 30 banners = a one in 30 chance when you look at any page on BMC, this one will show up)
- Graham Steel
When put in that kind of comparison, it's hard to make a case for continuing our military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
But how will arms dealers--I mean defense contractors--survive? Won't someone think of the producers of weapons of mass destruction?
- Victor Ganata
But isn't more fun designing and remote operating drone bombers than, say, find a cure for cancer?
- Rene, Pro Button Pusher
This isn't the cost for drones...this is the cost for keeping our troops cool...basically it's the cost of the gas and transporting of the gas to the various bases we have to keep the troops cool and functioning.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
If a vast part of our economy didn't depend on making things that explode and/or kill lots of people, would our troops be baking alive in Afghanistan?
- Victor Ganata
One could reason that the more we spend on more automated methods of killing, the less we would need to spend on troops.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
You can't win a war with air power alone. Especially if you're fighting a land war in Asia.
- Victor Ganata
But yes, one problem when you have so much military stuff is that politicians will want to use it.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
Until we build AI that can tell friend from foe and that won't get hopelessly trapped on winding mountain trails and caves, you're probably going to need someone within radio range.
- Victor Ganata
But I'm hoping we won't still be in Afghanistan by the time the Singularity rolls around.
- Victor Ganata
I doubt the people in play who are involved in national defense and all that goes along with that: contracts, money, back scratching, etc. really give a damn about ending world hunger. Nice thought though.
- Derrick
Good thing it is not up to the defense contractors to decide when the nation goes to war. Unfortunately many political representatives also seem to support these military actions.
- Mike Chelen
One point I have heard before that is very interesting (as a question, the person wasn't suggesting not ending hunger at all) is: If you end world hunger, will you destroy the cheap manufacturing sector? If you remove the primary source of desperation, that of food supply, will people still be willing to work for cents-a-day under barbaric conditions?
- Johnny
If a side effect of stopping people from starving is to eliminate labor conditions similar to slavery, that sounds like a pretty good bonus :D
- Mike Chelen
Mike, indeed... but what ramifications will that have on the world economy. Everything has an effect :)
- Johnny
Johnny: An incredibly positive one? The productivity of a healthy, educated worker is far greater than someone doing cheap manual labor and starving.
- Mike Chelen
Ah yes Mike, but are the current structures of the world economy, or indeed the local areas in which these plans would mostly be deployed, set up for a sudden influx of non-desperate people. People like cheap products. Are people willing to pay more because some dude on food welfare in Asia gets all uppity about his conditions? Are there enough jobs for people to earn a decent living...
more...
- Johnny
It's a misconception that wealth is necessarily zero-sum in a capitalist system. Sure, feeding everyone will be disruptive, but it doesn't necessarily require Robin Hood tactics.
- Victor Ganata
Johnny: Where are these additional people coming from? The population would still be the same, only a larger proportion would be properly nourished. Is getting slightly cheaper products a good enough reason to let children starve?
- Mike Chelen
That assumes that feeding the world would lead to an increase in prices. A rational argument can be made that with the extra productivity, prices of goods would come down.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
And since it's never been done before, we really have no idea what would happen.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
There are many instances on smaller scales. Soup kitchens for example provide a basic level of nutrition for homeless or poor families and individuals. Better nutrition has been shown to increase cognitive performance, and decrease violent or disruptive behavior.
- Mike Chelen
Not to be cynical but who is it that estimates that 30 billion (or any amount of money for that matter) would fund projects to feed the world?
- Brian Sullivan
The figure from the United Nations is $30b per year for 10 years. It is only enough for people that are currently undernourished, not including everyone that already has enough food. http://articles.latimes.com/2008...
- Mike Chelen
Yup Alex that is right, $300b total, comparable to these infrastructure costs over 10 years of war.
- Mike Chelen
Just curious: is that a one-time investment? i.e., once you've spent the $300 billion, you wouldn't need to spend any more?
- I like big Botts
I don't think they know, Glen, but I bet that's what the estimators are thinking. Once you build up the infrastructure it should be largely self supporting after 10 years.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
That's the idea, that it would be eventually self-sustaining.
- Victor Ganata
Yup, without any additional investment after the 10 year period.
- Mike Chelen
Here are some other factors to throw into the mix (which is more aligned with my line of work): The decreasing stocks of phosphate and nitrogen based fertiliser raw materials. The fact China shuts down phosphate production during certain times of the year. Port and sea vessel infrastructure. Local distribution, storage and management. Pesticide and herbicide management. Disease control....
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- Johnny
Yes, Johnny, much of that, if not all, is valid analysis, but I'd still rather spend $300bn trying this out rather than occupying a foreign country or bailing out Wall Street. Wouldn't you?
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
from YouFeed
Yes. But I dare say we can't end world hunger without occupying a few counties or bailing out a few companies. Just swap oil for resources
- Johnny
from iPhone
What, no faith in NGOs and indigenous democratic institutions? The only way to do things is with massive imperialist intervention? So everything happening in the Middle East and North Africa is an illusion?
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
Victor. No faith in humanity on a massive scale. NGOs (of which our family support 2) STILL have to do deals with local warlords and corrupt officials. I'm not saying the ONLY way is imperialist intervention but if you want it done in 10 years for $300 billion, you need to change societies. LiveAid was in 1985. You have to change everyone's mind. THAT takes far more and far longer. You...
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- Johnny
from iPhone
Of course it's not going to be easy, but I think it's paternalistic to believe that developing nations can't shoulder part of the logistic burden even if they can't handle the financial burden, and that the only way to do it is for developed nations to bring a bunch of bombs and guns and force people there to do things our way.
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
And what's happening in Africa and the Middle East is based on lack of employment and food prices... so back to my earlier point. If you raise a person's standard of living, they will expect a higher standard of treatment. Can the world support a large population who isn't governed by fear of starvation? You end poverty by giving people jobs. Are there enough to go around?
- Johnny
from iPhone
Well, if we redirect money being spent on the war, we're going to have to lay off 500,000 soldiers first.
- I like big Botts
Right, food prices are too *high*, not too low, and the reason there isn't employment is because of the lack of infrastructure, the lack of security, and the lack of robust local government institutions, making it an unfavorable environment for both multinational corporations and indigenous businesses. It's not magic. You can look at how any developed nation's history to see how...
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- Victor Ganata
If your thesis that people who are well-fed don't aspire to better themselves further were true, developed nations would've collapsed a long time ago.
- Victor Ganata
My thesis is a poorly-fed person cares little for working conditions when their pay check is their sole source of food... And I would actually agree with your 'industrialized nations' point if both our industrialized nations weren't shipping low paying jobs overseas to virtual slave labor havens. Hard to find wide-spread poverty when it's offshore.
- Johnny
from iPhone
So we should keep people in developing countries malnourished so that I can buy cheap garbage from Wal-Mart? Is that it? You know, I'd actually be fine with buying more expensive consumer goods if essential goods got cheaper.
- Victor Ganata
Glen, we had most of those 500,000 soldiers before the wars and they are, in fact, stretched far too thin with the two occupations that we have going on. The cost of being in those countries far outweighs the cost of keeping those soldiers on the books. No need for us to lay them off. We just shouldn't use them willy-nilly.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
And don't even get me started on how we send them off to war and then don't take care of them when they get back with all manner of physical and psychological injuries. So yeah, in truth, we can't even afford to use them the way we have.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
hang around a rehab center see many sad stories that could be fixed if those in charge really cared
- WarLord
And in any case, if these efforts are actually intended to help local populations by building up local infrastructure, then local businesses can establish themselves to serve local markets. The citizens of developing nations need not be entirely dependent on the whims of multinational corporations. If the resultant competition results in multinational corporations having to provide higher wages in order to retain workers to stay productive, well, that's a just price for us to pay.
- Victor Ganata
You also tend to forget that new groups of well fed and now afluent people become a market for our exports. It's hardly a zero sum game as much as conagra and Wally World would make us believe
- WarLord
I'm sure that Walmart would love a billion more customers.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
I have no illusions that the average multinational corporation will have problems foisting their additional costs on their customers. As long as I'm not required to buy their products, they can do whatever they want.
- Victor Ganata
As much as they promote the notion of having global stability as a humanitarian goal, the world's financial/agricultural markets play nice with one hand and play mean with the other, and it is "the other" that reaps the most striking gains in times of instability. Speculators depend on moving markets, anticipating (often creating?) sudden declines as buying opportunities and then riding...
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- Mark J Colonel Colonic
Yeah, that's pretty insightful, Mark, I wish the American people would collectively figure this out and get angry enough about it to actually do something worthwhile, of course, what that should be, I don't really know right now. But "kicking the bums out" doesn't seem to be a workable proposition as that just replaces them with other bums.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
If you really did a full calculation of your opportunity costs--a comprehensive cost-benefit analysis--maybe you'd realize that the government actually does quite a bit for you.
With a government elected by the people, we are doing it for ourselves.
- Mike Chelen
Well, that's the theory, at least. But even with its imperfections, it's still a hell of a lot better than having to dance at the whim of an absolute monarch, with the threat of death for disobedience.
- Victor Ganata
"It isn't open access, though, so apparently the Public is not allowed to read about the Public Understanding of Science unless they cough up $25 per article. They can read about "science" for cheap in their local tabloid, though. Isn't this part of the problem, too? Let's also put part of the blame on a science publishing industry that puts up barriers to reading the real stuff. (...) It's all well and good to talk about public accessibility of science, but how do you expect the public to get engaged when almost all primary literature is locked behind a pay-wall? I have access through my university, but when I want to blog about new research for friends and family, I'm stuck linking to abstracts and then summarizing everything in the paper. (...) That's why I'm cheering for PLoS - everything they publish is open access, the way it should be. It's your taxes that fund the research, you should have access to the results without me or anyone else being a mediator."
- Amira
from Bookmarklet
Perhaps the publishers of science journals will eventually transition? Revenue has been based on subscriptions for a long time.
- Mike Chelen
Some of the analyses are of very low quality, or simply wrong (mainly from the company that set up this wiki). Nevertheless some consensus appears to emerge, as more experts join in.
- Pawel Szczesny
"Seeing a black bear can be one of the most memorable experiences of a wilderness vacation. Bears seem almost human at times, partly because of their high intelligence and partly because they can stand and sit like we do. Their diet is also somewhat like ours, so fruit and nut shortages are problems for them just as they were for primitive people. In years of crop failure, black bears are almost as quick as chipmunks to overcome their fear of people and seek out food. And they are extremely adept at getting it. They have color vision, acute hearing, and a keen sense of smell. They learn quickly and can remember feeding locations for years. They can climb trees, bend open car doors, and pry out windshields. They readily swim to island campsites. They adapt their lifestyles to the availability of food, often becoming nocturnal to avoid confrontations with us rather than sleeping at night like they usually do."
- Katy S
from Bookmarklet
The title of this cracks me up - it's as if "camping with bears" is the intended activity.
- Katy S
National parks such as Yosemite have metal storage containers at the camp grounds to keep food. Park rangers say the containers must be designed carefully to be easy enough for a human, while too difficult for a bear to open.
- Mike Chelen
Hi Katy, FF is randomly sending me notifications of old messages :) I'm happy to report that we did not see a single bear! Hurrah! Martha
- marthalib
from email
Cool, Pete - and thanks for leading the crowd once more.
- Daniel Mietchen
Well, not quite (some others beat us to it, including Springer, Elsevier, Mendeley) but we have been wanting to do this for ages. Plus ours is on the full text and fully open.
- Peter Binfield
I meant the "full text and fully open" part.
- Daniel Mietchen
Speaking of PubMed, one of its major limitations is that it does not provide full-text search. PLoS and Mendeley do. So I think it would be useful to have a little app (e.g. a browser plugin) that takes a PubMed search, passes it on to the PLoS/ Mendeley search engines and displays the results in the context of the original PubMed search. Anyone interested in that (e.g. as a warm-up for http://ff.im/FIwlT )?
- Daniel Mietchen
Couple of updates for any of you entering the competition. Nephoscale are offering 10 free cloud servers for entrants using PLoS APIs see: http://blogs.plos.org/plos... And today we upgraded search to also include "search within figure caption" so now you can do cool things with our figures too.
- Peter Binfield
Another word and the forces will abolish all forms of Cilantro on this planet called Earth, message received from Planet Janet
- Janet-The Bottley Crue
Message to Planet Janet: you know you love it with cilantro, baby.
- Steven Perez
Now see this is the interesting thing: if anybody posts, then you have to. So if everybody keeps posting, you'll just have to keep up with us. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
- caj needs a haircut
Debating tip: never try to get in the last word. Always give your opponent the opportunity to get in the last word. By some sort of mysterious karmic law, your persuasiveness will improve immeasurably. :)
- Sean McBride
Steven Perez isn't a Bunneh!!! As long as he doesn't respond.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
So... it's kind of like a "tontine" but with a pretty weak payoff?
- Mark J Colonel Colonic
It's okay, he's got a Catch-22 now. Steven Perez isn't a Bunneh, so long as he doesn't respond. And we all know he refutes his Bunneh status.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
It was real hawt in the town that night! IF I EDIT 18 hours later like now - is your last still last if comments are disabled? A hawt question.
- Steve Cleary
Steven is a Bunneh!!! He responded when I said he wasn't. Bunneh's can win if they want.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
You did see where I said that I like my food scared and running, yeah? Mmmmm, ferret-ka-bobs ...
- Steven Perez
from IM
I do indeed see where this is headed, and no sir, I don't like it. *calls upon the forces of Voltron
- T-Bone Tsali, FF Cherokee
from IM
Sadly, the only Voltron to heed your call is the vehicle Voltron. And I disabled that yo-yo by pulling out the sparks plugs in the car feet.
- Steven Perez
from IM
It's an old Navajo word for "punk-ass bitch".
- Steven Perez
from IM
No one has the slightest idea how much Steven is enjoying this...
- Abhishek
very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy very busy
- Steven Perez
from IM
VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY
- Steven Perez
from IM
hmm... 800+ comments on this thread, and this is my first, and probably last comment on this thread. I wonder should I read all the comments, or just post?
- Mike Nencetti
Are you guys still trying to win?
- Steven Perez
from IM
23 years from now, Steven will still check his MSGoogle MyFriendFace feed every morning so he can respond to this post with 3,137,783 comments...
- The Ghost of Library Past
from iPod
After half a month there must have been moment you thought it would not be a real big deal if you eventually should NOT have the last word, I suppose?
- Ruud van Wijngaarden
Now that you've nearly reached 1100 comments, I realized that I hadn't officially "liked" this yet! Error rectified, though you're clearly a comment whore, you show great panache while doing so!
- Mark J Colonel Colonic
Ohhh, you mean that place, which is totally faked by a #viciousbunneh who was in cahoots with the government in taking all the alfalfa plants into an underground hidden bunker.
- T-Bone Tsali, FF Cherokee
Now that I have achieved status of half-centurian, I request the next 50 days of last word in honor of my achievement of breathing.
- Janet-The Bottley Crue
Well, well, well. Has it been 50 days already?
- Steven Perez
I will allow you to have the last word. But to take that last word you are surrendering your honor to a den of sightless whores.
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
Eventually, the whole thread will go backwards to the beginning.
- WoH: Minding her Botts
That sounds like more fun than I imagine you wanted it to.
- Steven Perez
from IM
It was a test. Honor is pride. A den of sightless whores is merely an event that you will carry forever. You have attained the 7th level of enlightenment.
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
Considering that this thread has only been around since August, and has been shut down for the last two months, that's not too bad.
- Steven Perez
from IM
2012 is just the begining of the 13th Baktun, the long cont calendar doesn't actually run out until sometimes after 4772, that is of course if you stick with only Baktuns and don't use the other 4 higher counts, I just think FF will end in 4217 on planet Tersanzar :)
- T-Bone Tsali, FF Cherokee
Ah, right thread. In that thread, it's asked what you think you smell like. In this thread, I told you what I think you smell like.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Cilantro, Strawberries, and Chilaquiles.
- Steven Perez
I think this has lasted long enough. We already know what has to be the last word, it's already in the original quote. I will put it as the closing comment. I think we will all feel relieved we can now carry on to do greater things. For ourselves, our loved ones and the world.
- Ruud van Wijngaarden
I dunno, the Akiva nipple-licking beach picture is pretty long, too. :-) Ah, and it looks like Mike Nayyar's last-word thread has more than 2200 comments in it. I guess we'll have to step it up over here, huh?
- Ladyepiphanybug
Sonorandragon, but I warn you, I suck at this game. I have fun, but you're going to whip my ass. And if you don't, then you shouldn't be playing it.
- Dan: Bibrarian