Mike Chelen › Likes

Son of Groucho
People say, ‘I’m going to sleep now,’ as if it were nothing. But it’s really a bizarre activity. ‘For the next several hours, while the sun is gone, I’m going to become unconscious, temporarily losing command over everything I know and understand. When the sun returns, I will resume my life. If you didn’t know what sleep was, and you had only seen... - http://sonofgroucho.tumblr.com/post...
I frequently think about how weird it is to sleep (partly because I have a hard time doing it most of the time). - Kamilah Reed (K. Gill)
Why am I awake at 04.54? - Son of Groucho
Thanks :) - Eivind
That's a really cool breakdown. Makes it easy to see why I like Cappuccino so much more than a Latte or Breve - I like the frothiness. - Jennifer Dittrich
I've yet to see a Starbucks that can make a good cappuccino. It either has almost no steamed milk (= macchiato) or way too much (= latte). - Tudor Bosman
Espresso macchiato is the finest of all the coffees. :) - Ken Morley
Fresh water + salt water + bacteria = renewable energy - http://arstechnica.com/science...
Fresh water + salt water + bacteria = renewable energy
"Most of the renewable energy sources that are under consideration involve an obvious source of energy—light, heat, or motion. But this is the second time this year there has been a paper that has focused on a less obvious source: the potential difference between fresh river water and the salty oceans it flows into. But this paper doesn't simply use the difference to produce some electricity; instead, it adds bacteria to the process and takes out a portable fuel: hydrogen." - Me from Bookmarklet
That's a brackish concept. - Josh Haley
Off topic, but I see dancers in those water plumes. - Shannon - GlassMistress
New York City Bike Share Program Will Have 10,000 Bikes, 600 Stations - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r...
Scientists Find A New Way To Measure Pain - http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast...
"Physicians gauging pain have little to go on besides a patient’s self-report. And some sufferers simply can’t communicate how they’re feeling. So scientists have searched for a reliable way to measure pain physiologically. And they may finally have one. Researchers performed functional MRI scans on the brains of 24 subjects who were having an arm heated to the point of moderate pain. The subjects’ brain patterns were recorded both as they experienced pain and zero pain. The researchers then used an algorithm to develop a pain model, based on the patterns. The work was published in the journal PLoS One." - Shevonne from Bookmarklet
Jesse Stay
Alex Scrivener
Pirate Party Takes 9% Of The Vote In Berlin Elections, Wins A Bunch Of Seats In Parliament - http://www.techdirt.com/article...
The White House Brews Its Own Beer - http://gizmodo.com/5841468...
The White House Brews Its Own Beer
"The President oversaw the elimination of Osama bin Laden and he asked the White House kitchen to begin brewing its own beer for parties? Remind me, how is it he's not a shoe-in for reelection? Don't answer that. Focus on the beer. Yes! It's true, dear readers (of which there must be a few home brewers amongst you, no?). President Obama, in his infinite wisdom, decided to buy some beer brewing equipment (with his own money) and started brewing batches of White House Honey Ale earlier this year for a Super Bowl party. Small batches have continued to be brewed since that time, with the most notable recent consumption arriving when Medal of Honor recipient Marine Sgt. Dakota Meyer requested a beer with the president. The brew kit is also notable because it is the first ever beer brewing operation in the White House. Lastly, since it's probably brewing in a few of your snarky minds: Homebrewing is 100% legal in Washington, D.C" - Me from Bookmarklet
1st Beer. I'd buy a case. - Me
Obama isn't the first to make booze there. - Big Joe Silenced
Nah, but with prohibition it went out of style. I like that the homebrew/distilling movement is gaining some good momentum and press. - Jennifer Dittrich
Who was the first to brew beer in the White House? The WH history curator says there's no record of any President brewing in the WH. - Anika
I have visited Mount Vernon a few times. - Mike Nencetti
Miguel Caetano
#Germany: Pirate Party Enters Berlin Parliament After Historical Election Win - Ernesto (TorrentFreak) - https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-...
"For the first time in history a Pirate Party has managed to enter a state parliament. With an estimated 9 percent of the total vote the Pirate Party exceeded the 5% floor needed to enter the Berlin parliament with several seats. For the international Pirate Party movement this is the second major success after the European elections of 2009." - Miguel Caetano from Bookmarklet
Daniel Mietchen
Looking for options for a web-based survey - any recommendations?
I know Google Forms, Survey Monkey and Lime Survey. Desired non-usual features: Embed (or link to) files that are already on the web, handle non-ASCII fonts (e.g. Korean). - Daniel Mietchen
@SurveyGizmo Thanks - it's on my list now. And thanks for the overview at http://www.relevantinsights.com/free-on... . - Daniel Mietchen
I used PollEverywhere for my class this past term http://www.polleverywhere.com/free_te... - Jean-Claude Bradley
"NOTE: Exporting data is not included in a free account." - http://help.surveymonkey.com/app... - Daniel Mietchen
SurveyMonkey has a nice interface for forms, what are the export options for free accounts? Google Forms / Spreadsheets are handy because the results are immediately available through a spreadsheet, where calculations and charts can be added. - Mike Chelen
Todd Hoff
House build for only $5K (http://www.junkboulevard.com/house-b...) "Simon Dale, a self-build devotee, knows the answer. He constructed his woodland home entirely from natural and reclaimed materials, including tiles from a showroom skip and spent $4,900 and only 4 months on this low-impact living."
Show all
I've read about this house. It's a lovely idea. - Jenny
Lovely and inspiring. - Todd Hoff
Carlos Leiva Burotto
Why should open scientists or researchers use Quora? - http://www.quora.com/Why-sho...
"Because it is the best way of disseminating scientific writing that has ever been invented." - Carlos Leiva Burotto from Bookmarklet
I suggest you to also check this http://www.quora.com/Quora-U... - Carlos Leiva Burotto
If you want to sign up on Quora, I can send you an invitation.. just share your email with me here: https://docs.google.com/spreads... - Carlos Leiva Burotto
Ami Iida
How Many Species Are There on Earth and in the Ocean? http://www.plosbiology.org/article...
The diversity of life is one of the most striking aspects of our planet; hence knowing how many species inhabit Earth is among the most fundamental questions in science. Yet the answer to this question remains enigmatic, as efforts to sample the world's biodiversity to date have been limited and thus have precluded direct quantification of global species richness, and because indirect estimates rely on assumptions that have proven highly controversial. Here we show that the higher taxonomic classification of species (i.e., the assignment of species to phylum, class, order, family, and genus) follows a consistent and predictable pattern from which the total number of species in a taxonomic group can be estimated. This approach was validated against well-known taxa, and when applied to all domains of life, it predicts ~8.7 million (±1.3 million SE) eukaryotic species globally, of which ~2.2 million (±0.18 million SE) are marine. In spite of 250 years of taxonomic classification and over... more... - Ami Iida
Mr. Gunn
What the scientific community wants computers to do for them: The results of the PLoS and Mendeley Call for Apps - http://www.mendeley.com/blog...
The Enlightened Economist :: Books v. eBooks . [7 rants ;-] - http://www.enlightenmenteconomics.com/blog...
The Enlightened Economist :: Books v. eBooks . [7 rants ;-]
"1. You can’t safely spill sunscreen or wine on an electronic device, or get sand in it. 2. You can’t share books on a device. I can’t even get e-books I bought on one device onto another device I own. E-books torpedo domestic and friendly sharing. 3. They could do the same to the second hand book market. 4. You can’t cut and paste quotes from an e-book. Their makers are so paranoid about “intellectual property theft” that to quote from an e-book, I have to retype the whole thing. 5. How are you supposed to refer others to specific pages of the text – e.g. in a footnote? Floating “locations” have replaced fixed “pages”. Will authors have to start numbering their paragraphs, as if in a mediaeval manuscript? 6. I hate the smallness of the screen. I read quickly so have to keep thumbing to the next “page” and get thumb-ache. I hate having to keep scrolling back by several “locations” to go back to something rather than just turning back a page. 7. I can’t see what other people are reading when I’m on the train. This used to offer moments of delight." - Adriano from Bookmarklet
1. True with current devices 2. Bluetooth, WiFi? 3. Who cares 4. Yes you can, if you get a good format of ebook 5. Good question which is solvable 6. Get a bigger screen 7. Try asking - Mike Chelen
Technical books do not look great on e-book reader while I think they work very well for text based books such as novels. - Ashish
Andrew Leahey
What a "Shooting Star" looks like #FromSpace Taken ... on Twitpic - http://twitpic.com/662hqp
What a "Shooting Star" looks like #FromSpace Taken ... on Twitpic
RT @Astro_Ron: What a "Shooting Star" looks like #FromSpace Taken yesterday during Perseids Meteor Shower Thanks @JakeGaran 4 cam http:/ ... - Andrew Leahey
Why Meta Tags Have Suddenly Got Hot Again in 2011 http://t.co/yj9T666
Daniel Mietchen
"Our vision is establishing the publication of null-results as an important cornerstone for the advancement of knowledge and scientific understanding in all disciplines thus contributing to overcome biases and fraud in research." - think of http://www.jir.com/ or http://figshare.com/ with pre-publication peer review. - Daniel Mietchen from Bookmarklet
Is this a gag? - Bill Hooker
There are a few of these already: https://encrypted.google.com/search... - Meg VMeg
Don't think it's a gag, and don't understand why it got a prize from a renowned German funding body that described the journal as "unique in the world" - suffering from the same weakness like most uniqueness claims (insufficient knowledge about the relevant parameter space). - Daniel Mietchen
Gunneh-MoTo Calls me that
I am watching Torchwood: Miracle Day w/1902 others http://t.co/kp7CdTN @GetGlue #Torchwood
Miguel Caetano
#Bullshit: The Deficit Deal: We Got Taken - Martin Hart-Landsberg (Sociological Images) - http://thesocietypages.org/socimag...
#Bullshit: The Deficit Deal: We Got Taken - Martin Hart-Landsberg (Sociological Images)
#Bullshit: The Deficit Deal: We Got Taken - Martin Hart-Landsberg (Sociological Images)
"Tragically, the debate over how best to reduce the deficit has encouraged people to blame social spending for our large deficits and those large deficits for our current economic problems. As a result, demands for real structural change in the way our economy operates are largely dismissed as irrelevant. Recent economic data should be focusing our attention on the dangers of a new recession. According to the Commerce Department our economy grew at an annual rate of just 1.3% in second quarter of this year, following a first quarter in which the economy grew by only 0.3%. These are incredibly slow rates of growth for an economy recovering from a major recession. To put these numbers in perspective, Dean Baker notes that we need growth of over 2.5% to keep our already high unemployment rate from growing. Cutting spending during a period of economic stagnation, especially on infrastructure, research, and social programs, is a recipe for greater hardship. In fact, such a policy will... more... - Miguel Caetano from Bookmarklet
Sim, mais guerras no Irão, na Líbia. Há que criar postos de trabalho! ;) Desculpem mas a lógica do endividamento desregulado apenas incita a uma espiral de dependência do crescimento permanente que pura e simplesmente não é realista. O endividamento deve ser controlado e o investimento público deve ser regularmente submetido a procedimentos de transparência e de consulta pública. Ganhar... more... - Miguel Caetano
Michel Bauwens
Private Property is Not the Right Solution for the Natural Commons - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/private...
17% of Level 3's outages due to squirrel chews? Another 7% due to gun practice? WTH? http://felix.co/oz4qrG
Kol Tregaskes
I've just created a cool new '3D wall' with Cooliris Express, have a quick look here: http://www.cooliris.com/yoursit...
AJ Batac
World's Thinnest House is only 4 ft wide - http://www.archdaily.com/152505...
World's Thinnest House is only 4 ft wide
World's Thinnest House is only 4 ft wide
World's Thinnest House is only 4 ft wide
"In Warsaw, Poland in the district of Wola lies a small crack of space between the buildings on 22 Chłodna Street and 74 Żelazna Street.  Jakub Szczęsny of Centrala, recognized the potential to create something unique within this narrow area, and derived a design of an art installation entitled Keret House. The house upon completion shall become the narrowest house in Warsaw, measuring an interior that will vary between 122 centimeters and 72 centimeters in its narrowest spot." - AJ Batac from Bookmarklet
Daniel Mietchen
I plan to submit a session on collaborative platforms for open science and possibly another one on "Research funding 2.0" (cf. http://ff.im/9SvED ). Anyone interested in teaming up? Deadline for submissions is 30 June 2011. - Daniel Mietchen from Bookmarklet
Daniel: What type of platforms are you interested in covering? - Mike Chelen
My favourites would be wikis and GitHub, though others (e.g. Etherpads/ Google docs, Bazaar) could also be possible. - Daniel Mietchen
There are a number of exciting aspects for wiki platforms and GitHub, been having alot of fun with Git-backed wikis and GH pages lately. Etherpad and Google docs are also great examples, and supposedly the EP tech will be integrated with GDocs eventually. Don't have much experience with Bazaar however it does seem popular for some software projects such as Ubuntu. - Mike Chelen
Is there a technical description for the WikiGenes project? Wondering if it uses only core MediaWiki or also some extensions. - Mike Chelen
I think it is heavily customized (especially for the reputation part). I had considered using http://www.wikigenes.org/e... as an example, but then I had actually meant to write Gene Wiki here - corrected: http://en.wikiversity.org/w... . - Daniel Mietchen
I have now started drafts for four session proposals: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki... . Collaborators welcome! In particular, I think that http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki... could be a good occasion to showcase open science. - Daniel Mietchen
CC @jcbradley @skoch3 @cboettig . - Daniel Mietchen
@fundscience @kickstarter @sciflies @eurekafund - interested in "Research funding 2.0" session at ESOF 2012? http://bit.ly/RF-2-0 - Daniel Mietchen
now #madwriting session to finalize the proposals at http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki... . - Daniel Mietchen
Is it better to put suggestions for content in the wiki page itself or in the talk page? - Mike Chelen
Please edit the page directly. - Daniel Mietchen
All sessions submitted. - Daniel Mietchen
Scoble, Alex Scoble
With the 20 billion dollars that it costs annually for troop infrastructure in Iraq and Afghanistan, we could be ending world hunger.
It is estimated that it would cost 30 billion annually to fund the agriculture projects needed to end world hunger. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
When put in that kind of comparison, it's hard to make a case for continuing our military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
But how will arms dealers--I mean defense contractors--survive? Won't someone think of the producers of weapons of mass destruction? - Victor Ganata
This isn't the cost for drones...this is the cost for keeping our troops cool...basically it's the cost of the gas and transporting of the gas to the various bases we have to keep the troops cool and functioning. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
If a vast part of our economy didn't depend on making things that explode and/or kill lots of people, would our troops be baking alive in Afghanistan? - Victor Ganata
One could reason that the more we spend on more automated methods of killing, the less we would need to spend on troops. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
You can't win a war with air power alone. Especially if you're fighting a land war in Asia. - Victor Ganata
But yes, one problem when you have so much military stuff is that politicians will want to use it. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
I didn't say automated airplanes. :) - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Until we build AI that can tell friend from foe and that won't get hopelessly trapped on winding mountain trails and caves, you're probably going to need someone within radio range. - Victor Ganata
But I'm hoping we won't still be in Afghanistan by the time the Singularity rolls around. - Victor Ganata
If you bring home all those soldiers, do you have enough jobs for them? - Johnny from iPhone
We can get them to work feeding the world, Johnny. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
I doubt the people in play who are involved in national defense and all that goes along with that: contracts, money, back scratching, etc. really give a damn about ending world hunger. Nice thought though. - Derrick
Sad but probably true, Derrick. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Good thing it is not up to the defense contractors to decide when the nation goes to war. Unfortunately many political representatives also seem to support these military actions. - Mike Chelen
One point I have heard before that is very interesting (as a question, the person wasn't suggesting not ending hunger at all) is: If you end world hunger, will you destroy the cheap manufacturing sector? If you remove the primary source of desperation, that of food supply, will people still be willing to work for cents-a-day under barbaric conditions? - Johnny
If a side effect of stopping people from starving is to eliminate labor conditions similar to slavery, that sounds like a pretty good bonus :D - Mike Chelen
Mike, indeed... but what ramifications will that have on the world economy. Everything has an effect :) - Johnny
Johnny: An incredibly positive one? The productivity of a healthy, educated worker is far greater than someone doing cheap manual labor and starving. - Mike Chelen
Ah yes Mike, but are the current structures of the world economy, or indeed the local areas in which these plans would mostly be deployed, set up for a sudden influx of non-desperate people. People like cheap products. Are people willing to pay more because some dude on food welfare in Asia gets all uppity about his conditions? Are there enough jobs for people to earn a decent living... more... - Johnny
It's a misconception that wealth is necessarily zero-sum in a capitalist system. Sure, feeding everyone will be disruptive, but it doesn't necessarily require Robin Hood tactics. - Victor Ganata
Johnny: Where are these additional people coming from? The population would still be the same, only a larger proportion would be properly nourished. Is getting slightly cheaper products a good enough reason to let children starve? - Mike Chelen
It is now... - Johnny from iPhone
That assumes that feeding the world would lead to an increase in prices. A rational argument can be made that with the extra productivity, prices of goods would come down. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
And since it's never been done before, we really have no idea what would happen. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
There are many instances on smaller scales. Soup kitchens for example provide a basic level of nutrition for homeless or poor families and individuals. Better nutrition has been shown to increase cognitive performance, and decrease violent or disruptive behavior. - Mike Chelen
Not to be cynical but who is it that estimates that 30 billion (or any amount of money for that matter) would fund projects to feed the world? - Brian Sullivan
The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization among others, Brian http://www.google.com/search... - Scoble, Alex Scoble
The figure from the United Nations is $30b per year for 10 years. It is only enough for people that are currently undernourished, not including everyone that already has enough food. http://articles.latimes.com/2008... - Mike Chelen
I think that Mike means $30b a year for 10 years. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Yup Alex that is right, $300b total, comparable to these infrastructure costs over 10 years of war. - Mike Chelen
I don't think they know, Glen, but I bet that's what the estimators are thinking. Once you build up the infrastructure it should be largely self supporting after 10 years. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
That's the idea, that it would be eventually self-sustaining. - Victor Ganata
Yup, without any additional investment after the 10 year period. - Mike Chelen
Here are some other factors to throw into the mix (which is more aligned with my line of work): The decreasing stocks of phosphate and nitrogen based fertiliser raw materials. The fact China shuts down phosphate production during certain times of the year. Port and sea vessel infrastructure. Local distribution, storage and management. Pesticide and herbicide management. Disease control.... more... - Johnny
Yes, Johnny, much of that, if not all, is valid analysis, but I'd still rather spend $300bn trying this out rather than occupying a foreign country or bailing out Wall Street. Wouldn't you? - Scoble, Alex Scoble from YouFeed
Yes. But I dare say we can't end world hunger without occupying a few counties or bailing out a few companies. Just swap oil for resources - Johnny from iPhone
What, no faith in NGOs and indigenous democratic institutions? The only way to do things is with massive imperialist intervention? So everything happening in the Middle East and North Africa is an illusion? - Victor Ganata from iPhone
Victor. No faith in humanity on a massive scale. NGOs (of which our family support 2) STILL have to do deals with local warlords and corrupt officials. I'm not saying the ONLY way is imperialist intervention but if you want it done in 10 years for $300 billion, you need to change societies. LiveAid was in 1985. You have to change everyone's mind. THAT takes far more and far longer. You... more... - Johnny from iPhone
Of course it's not going to be easy, but I think it's paternalistic to believe that developing nations can't shoulder part of the logistic burden even if they can't handle the financial burden, and that the only way to do it is for developed nations to bring a bunch of bombs and guns and force people there to do things our way. - Victor Ganata from iPhone
And what's happening in Africa and the Middle East is based on lack of employment and food prices... so back to my earlier point. If you raise a person's standard of living, they will expect a higher standard of treatment. Can the world support a large population who isn't governed by fear of starvation? You end poverty by giving people jobs. Are there enough to go around? - Johnny from iPhone
Right, food prices are too *high*, not too low, and the reason there isn't employment is because of the lack of infrastructure, the lack of security, and the lack of robust local government institutions, making it an unfavorable environment for both multinational corporations and indigenous businesses. It's not magic. You can look at how any developed nation's history to see how... more... - Victor Ganata
If your thesis that people who are well-fed don't aspire to better themselves further were true, developed nations would've collapsed a long time ago. - Victor Ganata
My thesis is a poorly-fed person cares little for working conditions when their pay check is their sole source of food... And I would actually agree with your 'industrialized nations' point if both our industrialized nations weren't shipping low paying jobs overseas to virtual slave labor havens. Hard to find wide-spread poverty when it's offshore. - Johnny from iPhone
So we should keep people in developing countries malnourished so that I can buy cheap garbage from Wal-Mart? Is that it? You know, I'd actually be fine with buying more expensive consumer goods if essential goods got cheaper. - Victor Ganata
Glen, we had most of those 500,000 soldiers before the wars and they are, in fact, stretched far too thin with the two occupations that we have going on. The cost of being in those countries far outweighs the cost of keeping those soldiers on the books. No need for us to lay them off. We just shouldn't use them willy-nilly. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
And don't even get me started on how we send them off to war and then don't take care of them when they get back with all manner of physical and psychological injuries. So yeah, in truth, we can't even afford to use them the way we have. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
hang around a rehab center see many sad stories that could be fixed if those in charge really cared - WarLord
And in any case, if these efforts are actually intended to help local populations by building up local infrastructure, then local businesses can establish themselves to serve local markets. The citizens of developing nations need not be entirely dependent on the whims of multinational corporations. If the resultant competition results in multinational corporations having to provide higher wages in order to retain workers to stay productive, well, that's a just price for us to pay. - Victor Ganata
A price for them to pay, you mean. We shouldn't have to pay for that part of the deal at all. #StickItToTheMan #SorryForBeingALittleStupid - Scoble, Alex Scoble
You also tend to forget that new groups of well fed and now afluent people become a market for our exports. It's hardly a zero sum game as much as conagra and Wally World would make us believe - WarLord
I'm sure that Walmart would love a billion more customers. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
I have no illusions that the average multinational corporation will have problems foisting their additional costs on their customers. As long as I'm not required to buy their products, they can do whatever they want. - Victor Ganata
Yeah, that's pretty insightful, Mark, I wish the American people would collectively figure this out and get angry enough about it to actually do something worthwhile, of course, what that should be, I don't really know right now. But "kicking the bums out" doesn't seem to be a workable proposition as that just replaces them with other bums. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Great thread. - Harold Cabezas
lol - Derrick
Bora Zivkovic
Science publishers don't care about the public. Almost all primary literature is locked behind a pay-wall - http://scienceblogs.com/webeast...
"It isn't open access, though, so apparently the Public is not allowed to read about the Public Understanding of Science unless they cough up $25 per article. They can read about "science" for cheap in their local tabloid, though. Isn't this part of the problem, too? Let's also put part of the blame on a science publishing industry that puts up barriers to reading the real stuff. (...) It's all well and good to talk about public accessibility of science, but how do you expect the public to get engaged when almost all primary literature is locked behind a pay-wall? I have access through my university, but when I want to blog about new research for friends and family, I'm stuck linking to abstracts and then summarizing everything in the paper. (...) That's why I'm cheering for PLoS - everything they publish is open access, the way it should be. It's your taxes that fund the research, you should have access to the results without me or anyone else being a mediator." - Amira from Bookmarklet
Perhaps the publishers of science journals will eventually transition? Revenue has been based on subscriptions for a long time. - Mike Chelen
See also: Mendeley ☞ Papers of researchers from 195 countries & 19,150 universities http://bit.ly/m0lng3 and "The theory of shared matter": http://bit.ly/kqZfMl - Amira
Pawel Szczesny
This is The Open Science: https://github.com/ehec-ou... Annotation of E.coli O104:H4 Genome on GitHub, sequence data under CC0.
Contributions come from industry and academia. - Pawel Szczesny
Some of the analyses are of very low quality, or simply wrong (mainly from the company that set up this wiki). Nevertheless some consensus appears to emerge, as more experts join in. - Pawel Szczesny
Well, fork off then! :) - Egon Willighagen
The analyses are in the wiki? GitHub Wikis can be forked, though only through Git itself. - Mike Chelen
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