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Tim Beyers › Comments
115 Magazine and Media Predictions for 2010 - Consumer @ FolioMag.com - http://www.foliomag.com/2009...
Not too surprised to see some handicappers give love aplenty to the Apple's as-yet-released tablet. Saving for when the device ships.
- Tim Beyers
USATODAY.com - Submission guidelines - http://www.usatoday.com/news...
For the op-end page.
- Tim Beyers
And Now a Word From Op-Ed - Op-Ed - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2004...
About submitting to the editorial page.
- Tim Beyers
Submission Deadlines and Guidelines - Travelers' Tales - http://www.travelerstales.com/guideli...
Saving for The Freelance Writer's Helper.
- Tim Beyers
AOL's Editorial Process -- Revealed! (AOL, TWX) - http://www.businessinsider.com/aols-ed...
So are these AOL's writer's guidelines? Interesting.
- Tim Beyers
Northern Colorado Writers - 2010 Conference Schedule - http://www.northerncoloradowriters.com/index...
I'm teaching at this conference.
- Tim Beyers
PostRank - http://www.postrank.com/
Probably a good tool to have when I get to reworking the Editorchat blog.
- Tim Beyers
App Rejections - http://apprejections.com/
Interesting source for App Store submissions intel
- Tim Beyers
Well, it's that time. Please reintroduce yourselves and give us a link as you go. #editorchat
Thanks for coming all. Lydia Dishman, your co-host and fellow in freelancedom :)
- Lydia Dishman
Suzi Steffen, performing and visual arts editor at the Eugene Weekly and adjunct instructor at the University of Oregon's J-school. @suzisteffen on Twitter. LinkedIn, Skype, etc. http://blogs.eugeneweekly.com/suzi and my students are doing local blogging at http://reporting1blog.wordpress.com. Thanks, Lydia and Tim! You rock!
- Suzi Steffen
Thanks for holding this, Lydia and Tim. We appreciate you both and value this discussion. http://www.meryl.net/ @merylkevans
- Meryl K. Evans
Charles Bohannan of http://wordful.com, out of Waimea, Hawaii on the Big Island. Mahalo and Aloha to Tim and Lydia and everyone else here!
- Charles
Once more, you were terrific. Tim Beyers, Motley Fool tech contributor and freelancer covering tech, business, finance, and culture. http://timbeyers.com
- Tim Beyers
Thanks for another great chat, Lydia & Tim! Over & out. :) ~ Becky, Iowa, Deep Muck Big Rake, @BeckyDMBR
- Becky
Tom Feyer, letters editor of The New York Times. Please follow me on Twitter -- @tomfeyer -- where I highlight the day's letters and other items of interest. Also: www.nytimes.com/opinion
- Thomas Feyer
We've been brainstorming ways to make #editorchat better but we'd like to hear from you. What do we not do either here, on Twitter, or at the blog that we should be doing?
The blog needs updating, preferably at a few days before our discussion. Please.
- Charles
I'm referring to editorchat.net, that is.
- Charles
I think you're doing a wonderful job.
- Becky
Should we do more with it, Charles? Or are you just referring to posting the questions?
- Tim Beyers
Oh come on, Becky. We could be doing *something*, right?
- Tim Beyers
I second Becky's motion. You guys are great.
- Thomas Feyer
Recruit more people, but I think that's something we participants need to do.
- Suzi Steffen
Spread the word, Suzi!
- Tim Beyers
I appreciated Lydia's DM to me on Twitter this afternoon!
- Suzi Steffen
Promotion -- bring in more people. That's the only disadvantage about this outside of twitter --- people don't see it.
- Meryl K. Evans
I think when we finish up, we should say we'll keep talking about it on the blog?
- Suzi Steffen
I try to DM people the day of, but frankly, am not always able to capture everyone
- Lydia Dishman
I do have one question. Is Wednesday night -- a school night -- the best time for #editorchat? As you know, I'm often off dealing with the kids and their homework.
- Thomas Feyer
Is there a place to add links, etc? (Is that here?)
- Suzi Steffen
Hey, maybe a Facebook page? Then we could promote there, too?
- Meryl K. Evans
Suzi, we've done that with the blog and no one really comes around after the chat.
- Lydia Dishman
Now you're rolling. Keep going for four min. and then we'll move on to reintros.
- Tim Beyers
Tom, we have talked about timing but really, no time is a good time if you think about it. If it's not family, it's work.. Or the weekend.
- Lydia Dishman
How about a button? Or a link to quickly invite people to participate? Gah. Have I been using Facebook too much? ;)
- Becky
Lydia and I see this as a community, and correspondingly as a community effort. We want to make it the most attractive and engaging experience it can be.
- Tim Beyers
Let me back up, Tim. I LOVE Editorchat, and think we have a great community here. So thanks to you and Lydia for everything. The blog: post questions earlier would be helpful. I think a Facebook page is a wonderful idea (credit to Meryl for the suggestion).
- Charles
Understood, Lydia. Beside, eventually my kids will grow up and leave me! :-(
- Thomas Feyer
Thanks for those comments. We'll collect 'em all and talk through what makes sense. We're open any further promotional ideas you have.
- Tim Beyers
Hmmm.
- Suzi Steffen
Reintros coming at the top.
- Tim Beyers
Mine too, Tom - meantime, you should see the eye-rolls here on Wed. nights. But I tell them doing w/o me for 90 minutes builds character ;-)
- Lydia Dishman
Yes, I echo what Charles said. This is one of the better chats out there -- I think being in Friendfeed (and I love it) makes it harder for it to get noticed.
- Meryl K. Evans
I would join a Facebook page.
- Becky
Me, too, Becky.
- Thomas Feyer
I assume no chat next week -- turkey day.
- Meryl K. Evans
Good call, Meryl. Enjoy the Thanksgiving holiday everyone. We're certainly thankful for this group.
- Tim Beyers
Yes, Meryl - hiatus next week
- Lydia Dishman
Thanks for the DM reminders, Lydia.
- Thomas Feyer
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
- Becky
My pleasure Tom. And let me second Tim - I am grateful for all 'yous' as they say back in da Bronx.
- Lydia Dishman
I'm thankful for Tim, Lydia, Becky, Meryl, Charles, Suzi, Jen and everyone else for these 90 minutes -- give or take an hour!
- Thomas Feyer
We're thankful to Tim and Lydia for this. And I am thankful for you, you, yes you, and you for making me exercise my brain with seriously good discussion.
- Meryl K. Evans
Right, Meryl. It's a pleasure to be with such smart, engaging people :-)
- Thomas Feyer
So why are the #journalism and #publishing industries so obsessed with content? Is this just the buzzword du jour, or does it really mean something? #editorchat
With as often as I see "content" bandied about, I think a lot of times, it's just used as the buzzword of the moment. Heck, most of the time I think I know what is being discussed and it can confuse me anyway. *s*
- Jen Nipps
The obsession is driven by the internet marketing craze. Too many marketers and so-called marketers selling a scarcity of products, including "great content." This should settle down in time.
- Charles
Yeah, what Jen and Charles said. :)
- Meryl K. Evans
Charles, I hope you're right. And I also hope it doesn't take too long. lol
- Jen Nipps
Often, new content is a driver to look at a web site, whether via RSS, or subscription, or email digest, etc. Eyeballs = clicks which translate to $
- Lydia Dishman
I'm sick of it. It's made me feel worthless at times.
- Charles
Will it really, Charles? I mean, I want to believe you're right, but hasn't publishing reached the point where pay-for-performance -- as in: risk-shifting to writers and "paying for great content" -- is one of the few remaining strategies for operating profitably?
- Tim Beyers
"Eyeballs = clicks which translate to $" This is what I heard from AC, Lydia. Clicks are *the* currency in AC's world.
- Tim Beyers
I hope there's a pendulum shift. When people stop reading / buying a publication because it's mostly crap? Then maybe it's time to invest in more depth. ???
- Becky
Well, Tim, I imagine some innovative publishing business models will emerge and new companies/brands will rise to the top.
- Charles
I wonder Becky. Look at TV. Give the people what they want has turned networks and cable to reality crap.
- Lydia Dishman
Hey, some is good reality... Top Chef for one. Amazing Race takes us around the world.
- Meryl K. Evans
Actually, Lydia, for the first time in *I swear* a decade, there's some quality on TV again. When I discovered that, I figured they were finally paying writers again.
- Becky
You are right Meryl -some is good. I was thinking of Real Housewives, Wife Swap, etc.
- Lydia Dishman
Becky, absolutely right. I am noticing some good stuff on TV this season -- at long last.
- Meryl K. Evans
What would that innovator look like? Gets back to the intrinsic value question. Perhaps Rachel has it best: connections are currency. Seems we heard something like that from @JohnAByrne some time ago, when we were still on Twitter.
- Tim Beyers
And that may be the pendulum finally swinging back. We've had enough Springer and bored housewives. Bring on the real writing and great stories!
- Lydia Dishman
I'm enjoying television this year for the first time in a long time. Have you seen The Good Wife, Mad Men, Damages? Heck, I'm even taken in by Glee. Whee! Somebody had to write that. ;)
- Becky
"Bring on the real writing and great stories!" Amen.
- Tim Beyers
I second that, Tim!
- Charles
True. Storytelling has made a comeback in some circles. Bored to Death? That's just a big juicy slice of awesome.
- Tim Beyers
Even network TV has some good stuff. Look at Glee and Modern Family.
- Lydia Dishman
TV is making a comeback, but what about great stories/writing on the web and elsewhere?
- Charles
Have you guys looked at online magazines, etc.? I am thinking of this Texas arts mag called Glasstire (http://glasstire.org) that just won an award at the National Arts Journalism Summit. I think there's room for storytelling, but I also think the funding is an issue. (Grants are awesome! Except then you have to report to the granting agencies, and you don't want to rely on them entirely ... )
- Suzi Steffen
Elsewhere? Yipes. That's harder. I read tons of magazines, though. Anyone read The Sun?
- Becky
Back to the original question before we move on. Why the obsession with "content" if storytelling is making a comeback?
- Tim Beyers
Wish @jkwill10 was here, he's gotten a Knight grant for his new endeavor
- Lydia Dishman
Second that. Where are you @jkwill10?
- Tim Beyers
Did Suzi just say "Texas"?? Was not familiar with Glasstire.
- Meryl K. Evans
I've got to duck out. I'm behind on my Nano project and need to get some done on that since the first two books in that series are currently under consideration with a publisher.
- Jen Nipps
Tim - because in the midst of flux and before a new model is established clicks actually are currency. New content is a driver of revenue.
- Lydia Dishman
"Content" is something sites can slap up quickly and pay little or nothing for, promising writers a percentage of ad revenue (ha, ha) or a few bucks a post. Traffic is what matters most there.
- Becky
I think the obsession is at the management level more than anything, a way to try and productize the publishing business into something less esoteric. Disagree?
- Tim Beyers
I know, Meryl, but I did!
- Suzi Steffen
See ya, Jen!
- Becky
Content includes storytelling. It's an umbrella term for anything that gets published and has the potential to be commodofied (if that's even a word)
- Charles
I just don't get how those content mills make money. If I arrive on a site that produces cwap -- I leave. I am not sticking around.
- Meryl K. Evans
Oh, don't get me started, Meryl.
- Becky
Mostly I agree, Becky. But this isn't always true. Is a great recipe content? I suppose so, but even a recipe can have a story.
- Tim Beyers
@Tim I thnk it's a belief that somehow driving clicks will definitely drive advertising, but I'm not sure that actually works ... still, I like sites like Gawker, Jezebel, etc. They have both "content" and storytelling. Oh, and ads. But don't they pay by click rate?
- Suzi Steffen
Suzi -- you're fault! I am now getting another email newsletter ;) Just subscribed to Glassware's DFW edition. Looks fabulous.
- Meryl K. Evans
I don;t understand why content is getting a totally bad rap here. Sure, there's terrible content, but there's also good content. I consider it a neutral term.
- Charles
Yeah... why y'all knocking this content maven, eh? :)
- Meryl K. Evans
Yes, but does one tell a story with a great recipe? Some do. Some don't.
- Becky
Also true. So the term content is being misused. Should we be more indignant about this? I want to be in the content business, but not in the content mill business.
- Tim Beyers
True, Charles. Content is a neutral word. However, when a site is getting "content" from someone (or stealing it) to make money off of it, it's not necessarily quality.
- Becky
Storytelling with recipes, right here: http://www.101cookbooks.com/
- Charles
Ah, see, there you go, Tim. Adding context (and a word) that makes it clearer. ;)
- Becky
I love that site, Charles. Thanks for sharing it.
- Meryl K. Evans
I'm here all week, Becky. Well, okay, only for a few more minutes. (Grins.)
- Tim Beyers
Yeah, Meryl, great storytelling and sharing, and wonderful recipes.
- Charles
Oh... you mean I have to make 'em myself? They don't just appear on my table? Phooey.
- Meryl K. Evans
I'm back -- for now at least. I propose cutting down on the jargon like "content" and "product" and asking in simple English: Is the story interesting? Compelling? Do you want to read on? Does it make you see things in a new way? And so on.
- Thomas Feyer
That's a good way to think of it, Tom. Frankly, I wasn't seeing the difference between content and story before this discussion. Felt like a wrong-headed marketing term.
- Tim Beyers
Excellent point, Thomas.
- Becky
Any last comments on this? Lydia and I have a favor to ask before we close.
- Tim Beyers
Yeah, Tim, "content" is way overused. And great insight, Thomas.
- Charles
Ask away, Tim.
- Thomas Feyer
Alright, last question coming. Look up.
- Tim Beyers
New question above -- dig in.
- Tim Beyers
Looking up ...
- Suzi Steffen
We've been hearing a lot about "content," as if somehow productizing stories is the solution to the #publishing world's problems. Is there a material difference between content and story? If so, what is it?
Uh-oh. Here come the crickets. Maybe our "content maven" will chime in here? (Grins.)
- Tim Beyers
I think there is. The person writing it cares about a story where a lot of times they crank out as much "content" as they can. There are, of course, exceptions to that.
- Jen Nipps
I think Meryl is a very good case-in-point about there being exceptions to that.
- Jen Nipps
Anyone (almost) can gather content. And lots of people do -- for free. Not everyone can tell a good story.
- Becky
Content is churned or canned - stories are original, whether reporting or analysis.
- Lydia Dishman
Where are you, FriendFeed retweet button? CURSE YOU! (Good point, Becky.)
- Tim Beyers
There is never one solution to the world's problems and that includes publishing. Lots of great content don't undergo story-izing.
- Meryl K. Evans
Content is a commodity, stories aren't. But stories can be part of content.
- Charles
So are service pieces nothing but content? How-to do X?
- Tim Beyers
Not necessarily.
- Jen Nipps
Not at all, Tim. I work with a professional services business and email newsletter. We've told stories. But we've also told non-stories. Both successful.
- Meryl K. Evans
Getting specific on this, I'm thinking of content as something that can be posted and measured. Something defined by actions -- which makes it all the more attractive to advertisers. Fair?
- Tim Beyers
Tim - very fair. Content is a commodity and the pay scale offered to those creating it is very much in line with its devaluation.
- Lydia Dishman
Yeah. I think that's probably pretty accurate. (Blasted phone keeps ringing.)
- Jen Nipps
There was a fascinating point in my conversation with Luke at AC in which I asked whether there was an intrinsic value to stories. He didn't really have an answer, asserting instead that -- from here on -- clicks are what drive value. I find this to be both frightening and understandable.
- Tim Beyers
That kind of mindset is what keeps me away from places like AC, CC, and (sometimes) DS, unless I need a quick paycheck and there's something I can write to that won't take long.
- Jen Nipps
It is, Tim. As if we must promote our content like crazy... but that turns off people. Some great content never gets seen simply because it hasn't spread as it deserves to be.
- Meryl K. Evans
I wonder if the idea of nonprofit funding or some longer-term sponsorship would work for stories over content clicks.
- Suzi Steffen
BUt, you're right. It is frightening. People get to used to thinking that it's nothing to do an article, even a how-to. In the class I just finished teaching, I tried to emphasize that it's not easy and it's not a get-rich-quick scheme.
- Jen Nipps
I think "deserves" is the key word there, Meryl. By using that word, you assert that there *is* an intrinsic value to some content, perhaps content that is a great narrative.
- Tim Beyers
(I think I made that point effectively because 2 of the 4 people enrolled in the class never came back.)
- Jen Nipps
LOL Jen.
- Suzi Steffen
Nice inferring there, Tim. Ha -- Jen.
- Meryl K. Evans
Case in point. I had a post that several people found months after it went live... then it spread and got a lot of notice. But if several had never seen it, it'd be sitting there making me think it was not good enough... when it actually was... and needed some word of mouth love.
- Meryl K. Evans
My problem is that, like Jen, many writers are pushed to produce content just for that quick paycheck. I think it is not good for writers and just grows an audience for the french fries of feature writing/reporting.
- Lydia Dishman
How about a show of hands regarding the original question. Who says stories *dont* posses an intrinsic value? (As in how we've always operated in publishing -- writers are paid to produce some story that we assign a price, assuming that as fair value for the editorial team's time and commensurate work required.)
- Tim Beyers
I've heard a lot recently about retweeting and Facebook links becoming more of the new valuation and some turning away from SEO. (As an alt-weekly arts editor, I can say that none of us every thinks about that at all. Maybe I do a little in my online headlines now, but that's it.)
- Suzi Steffen
I'm hesitant to say that stories don't have intrinsic value, though.
- Jen Nipps
Oops, ever.
- Suzi Steffen
Lydia, thankfully I don't have to do it very often. I feel bad, like I'm contributing to the idea that low pay is acceptable for writing of any kind/quality.
- Jen Nipps
stories do have value - but if we, the writers, don't continue to stand up for their intrinsic value (and our own worth as professionals) it will all go away.
- Lydia Dishman
I wrote for one of those write lots of content, sacrifice quality sites. But didn't realize it right away because it was not known like the others. Once I realized it, I slow down my contribution and haven't contributed in a while.
- Meryl K. Evans
"French fries of feature writing/reporting." I love that, Lydia! :)
- Becky
So presuming stories carry an intrinsic value, how do we measure it?
- Tim Beyers
How did we ever measure it, Tim?
- Becky
I don't know. But not everything that has valuable is measurable.
- Jen Nipps
I missed that. Thanks, Jen. Love the "French fries" analogy. Agree with Jen -- we can't put a value or measure everything that's valuable.
- Meryl K. Evans
I don't know that you can measure value in terms of price, but more in the amount of people the story touches, as opposed to how many read it.
- Rachel Hergett
Becky -- I think in the past we measured it by what advertisers were willing to pay after subtracting general corporate expenses and so on.
- Tim Beyers
Jen, and all, I don't mean to knock anyone for writing for a content producer like AC, I know we all need to make a buck, but to me it is like committing to buying local food. Great in theory, but in practice ie: real life, it is sometimes more challenging to make it work.
- Lydia Dishman
I didn't take it as knocking me/anyone. :) I just added my extra 2-cents' worth. lol
- Jen Nipps
measurement is difficult. I agree with Rachel, it is more valuable to touch readers than to get clicks. But how will you ever really know who's affected? Comments are not a good gauge.
- Lydia Dishman
What I'm hearing -- or do I have this wrong? -- is that there may be a disconnect between market and intrinsic value, especially if we go by Rachel' definition: "the amount of people the story touches, as opposed to how many read it."
- Tim Beyers
Unfortunately, I think stories are being considered as literary. It seems even a lot of monthly magazines go the content direction more often than not. So since a lot of people don't value literary works...
- Jen Nipps
"Story" just isn't rainbows & unicorns and touchy-feely stuff. It's context. And it's missing A LOT. For example, WSJ just ran an article about the new guidelines for mammograms. While it provided "content" (info about said guidelines & some quotes), it failed to ask any more questions or provide context or depth.
- Becky
I think that's an excellent point/illustration, Becky.
- Jen Nipps
Becky, agreed. However, I think many editors just throw ideas around thick and fast and expect reporter to provide context with just a few links.
- Lydia Dishman
Exactly, Lydia. And the layers that used to be there (reporters, copy editors, desk editors, MEs, etc., etc.) are gone.
- Becky
Very true, Becky. What good is content without context?
- Charles
I've been noticing places like WSJ having some lesser quality articles. Disappointing.
- Meryl K. Evans
Charles, it's like Lydia said ... it's French fries. ;)
- Becky
Great stuff. Keep going while I post a new question above.
- Tim Beyers
Look up! New question above! (Grins.)
- Tim Beyers
"Would you like fries with that?" --ugh
- Charles
If the WSJ reporter had several layers of editors, perhaps more information would have been required. WHY did they change the guidelines? What research did they use? Who's on the panel? Where do they work / what are their professional ties? (The one panelist quoted works for Kaiser Permanente.) And what does that mean to the whole story?
- Becky
Becky, it seems to me that there's a lot more room online for that kind of context! Through links, sidebars, etc. (And I'll move up to the other question.)
- Suzi Steffen
Suzi, yeah, there's room online for it, but that doesn't mean it should be totally neglected in print.
- Jen Nipps
'Evening all. We're talking about stories tonight. Do they have intrinsic value? Or should clicks and other Webby metrics be how we measure the true worth of a published piece? #editorchat
Please introduce yourselves as you join. I'm your co-host, Tim Beyers. Motley Fool tech contributor and freelancer covering tech, finance, business, and culture.
- Tim Beyers
Hi, all! Sorry I was late & missed last week. Jen Nipps, fl writer in south Oklahoma, soon to have a book of devotions out, possibly around Christmas.
- Jen Nipps
Glad you could make it, Tom. You too, Jen.
- Tim Beyers
Tom Feyer, letters editor of The New York Times. The opinions expressed here are solely my own. If I have to leave the chat, it's because the kids need the computer to do homework and our other computers are down.
- Thomas Feyer
Meryl K Evans, content maven aka writer who makes a living playing with words for clients and editors.
- Meryl K. Evans
We'll allow a few more minutes for intros and then dig in. Some background in the meantime: this topic is partly inspired by a conversation I had with Luke Beatty, founder of Associated Content, at the Defrag show in Denver last week.
- Tim Beyers
Charles Bohannan, part-time Associate Editor, blogger at Wordful
- Charles
Got me to wondering: Why do we always say "content?" Aren't we really talking about stories?
- Tim Beyers
Hi, Meryl & Tom. Good to see you all.
- Jen Nipps
Thanks for joining us, Meryl and Charles.
- Tim Beyers
Oh, btw...I forgot. If you're also on Twitter, I'm @jennipps.
- Jen Nipps
Story Maven just doesn't work for me, Tim. :) I think people will think I'm a storyteller ... for children... not businesses.
- Meryl K. Evans
"Content" and "product" -- bad. "Stories'' -- good.
- Thomas Feyer
I'm going to grab the rules. Keep introducing yourselves and then we'll dig in.
- Tim Beyers
Hey, hey, hey! It's Becky from Iow-ay!
- Becky
Hi ya, Becky. :)
- Jen Nipps
Rachel Hergett, editor and reporter at the Bozeman Daily Chronicle. I may be in and out tonight because I'm on the desk.
- Rachel Hergett
Hey, Jen! ;)
- Becky
Hi, all. On Twitter, I'm @tomfeyer. Uh-oh, Kid 2 just got home and has to do homework on this computer! Will try to come back later.
- Thomas Feyer
Glad you all could be here. Not sure where Lydia is but let's dig in. I'm sure she'll join us when she can.
- Tim Beyers
Well that was fast. Hopefully we'll see ya later, Tom.
- Jen Nipps
Thanks, Tom.We'll be here.
- Tim Beyers
Me @merylkevans on twitter...
- Meryl K. Evans
First question is up. Scroll to the top, friends.
- Tim Beyers
Hey all, Suzi Steffen from Eugene, Ore., here. Arts editor at an alt-weekly.
- Suzi Steffen
Hey all, finally here
- Lydia Dishman
Time for the rules. Tweeps, we're on FriendFeed at http://friendfeed.com/editorc... #editorchat
Rule No. 1 Observers welcome but #editorchat is for those who are, or those who work with, editors
- Tim Beyers
Rule No. 2 Stay on topic. #editorchat
- Tim Beyers
Rule No. 3. Courteous comments, please. (Thank you, sir. Ma’am.) #editorchat
- Tim Beyers
And everyone’s favorite rule — Rule No. 4. Spammers will be electrocuted. (Your computer *is* wired, pal.) #editorchat
- Tim Beyers
Rule No. 5 No crickets. We're here to chat; come join us. #editorchat
- Tim Beyers
The United States Mint Presidential $1 Coin Program - http://www.usmint.gov/mint_pr...
Pretty fascinating way to earn more rewards points.
- Tim Beyers
2leep.com: Connecting Bloggers - http://2leep.com/
Saving this as a resource. Thanks to @shortformblog for the idea.
- Tim Beyers
HULIQ | Citizen News Review - http://www.huliq.com/
Not sure what to think of this. Better than Helium? Associated Content?
- Tim Beyers
confused of calcutta - a blog about information - http://confusedofcalcutta.com/
JP Rangaswami's blog about information.
- Tim Beyers
JP Rangaswami's blog about information.
- Tim Beyers
Good evening all, welcome to #editorchat. I'm your co-host Lydia Dishman hoping that power doesn't go out because of all the wind we're having in our neck of SC.
Your other co-host here. Tim Beyers, Motley Fool tech contributor and freelancer covering tech, finance, business, and culture. Chatting from outside the exhibit area at the #defrag conference in Denver.
- Tim Beyers
Hi, Charles of Wordful LLC here in Hawaii
- Charles
Hey Charles. Good to see you here. Very light crowd. Hoping it picks up soon.
- Tim Beyers
from IM
Hi Charles:)
- Lydia Dishman
Hi Lydia and Tim, and others...?
- Charles
Guess we didn't get the crowd tonight, Charles. We'll close up shop early and promise to be too compelling to ignore next week.
- Tim Beyers
Fair enough. I really appreciate what both of you are doing here. 'See' you next week!
- Charles
Aw... I'm sorry not enough. Next week, then!
- Meryl K. Evans
Guess I'm too late.
- Rachel Hergett
Me too. Sorry.
- Jen Nipps
Asia Healthcare Blog - http://www.asiahealthcareblog.com/
Could be useful for investigating insurance stocks in China.
- Tim Beyers
Well, it's that time. Please reintroduce yourselves and add a link if you'd like. #editorchat
Jen Nipps (@jennipps on Twitter), freelance writer in south Oklahoma specializing in creativity, writing, plus-size issues, and health. Main blog at http://jensorganizedwriter.wordpress.com. Too bad I came late to the party, but I'm glad I got to be in on it tonight. :)
- Jen Nipps
You all were great tonight, as you always are. Tim Beyers, Motley Fool tech contributor, freelancer covering tech, business, finance, and culture. Find me at http://timbeyers.com
- Tim Beyers
As always, thanks to Tim & Lydia. (Jane - publisher of Writer's Digest - my blog is at http://blog.writersdigest.com/norules.
- Jane Friedman
Folks, it has been a pleasure as usual. I'm Lydia Dishman, your co-host and the last general assignment reporter standing according to yet another one of my editors at Fast Company. I'm off to watch the Yankees - g-nite!
- Lydia Dishman
Erin Slattery (@efslattery on Twitter; good thinking, Jen), managing editor, Channel V Books. Personal blog is here: http://theghostinthepantry.wordpress.com. Thanks for a lively discussion, and to Tim and Lydia for organizing. :)
- E.F. Slattery
Timberly aka @willowbottom (more to do with a LOTR interest than a self-description): IT project manager by day; freelance writer the rest of the time normally in social media/networking/IT trends/research. Thanks to the Dynamic Lydia & Tim Duo for an always worthwhile time.
- Willowbottom
Charles Bohannan of Wordful in Hawaii (no I'm not on permanent vacation!), http://wordful.com, currently a part-time Associate Editor for a small local publishing company, seeking to realize the great things we talk about here on Editor Chat. Thanks Tim and Lydia as always!
- Charles
Great chat tonight, Tim and Lydia...as always. I'm Dee. Learn more and find me online here. http://www.google.com/profile...
- dee
Freelance journalist in Iowa. You can find me at Deep Muck Big Rake or huddled in front of my fireplace waiting for the moustrap to snap. Thanks for a great chat, Lydia & Tim!
- Becky
If the new model question begins and ends with what readers will pay for, should editors and writers be more invested in biz dev than they have been traditionally? #editorchat
If by biz dev you mean taking the time to draw up a business plan, mission, and long- and short-term goals, it'd be a darn good idea. (I've got part of that done, but not all.)
- Jen Nipps
I think everyone involved in all aspects of publishing need to be more invested in biz dev. A new model demands that everyone be pulling to make it work.
- Lydia Dishman
If you mean developing followings/readership, then yes, definitely.
- Jen Nipps
There is no such thing as a "pure" editor any more. If an editor isn't involved/invested in every dimension of the business they work in -- and that includes marketing and new business planning -- then they have no future in publishing.
- Jane Friedman
yes. this past weekend i had a discussion with the EIC for a mag I edit about leveraging the mag since some of the industry(gospel) giants had dropped print for online. she wasn't aware of the potential she had.
- dee
Writers should be doing more of the business-side of things than they have in the past. While some may have been entrepreneurial, many have not. I think it'll become the standard way of having a career as a writer unless you're James Patterson or Malcolm Gladwell.
- Meryl K. Evans
Jane, I've noticed/understood that from several editors I've heard at conferences recently, so I would have to agree.
- Jen Nipps
Of course. I call them (us?) Editor-Entrepreneurs. It shall go without saying henceforth :)
- Charles
If your question is whether writers should have a stake in defining their target market and cultivating that market, I totally agree.
- Willowbottom
I mean the whole process, as Jane specifies. I don't see how any writer can be entrepreneurial without fully understanding the economics of the business.
- Tim Beyers
And that can be intimidating as all get-out. lol. But it poses a challenge and I don't often back down from those. :)
- Jen Nipps
This a fine line, of course. If you're a journalist, helping to devise a plan to win more advertisers could create a serious conflict of interest, yes?
- Tim Beyers
It really could. I think it could cause some to have to choose which route to go, writing or advertising.
- Jen Nipps
(Applause.) That's for our friend, Willowbottom, who we haven't seen in an #editorchat for some time. Welcome back. (Plays Kotter theme.)
- Tim Beyers
Tim: Would it be a conflict of interest if you're going after a broad enough segment? But I still see courting the advertisers as a different question than understanding the business drivers.
- Willowbottom
It doesn't necessarily mean writers have to get advertisers, but they can drive traffic.
- Lydia Dishman
Actually, today's environment requires many of us to market ourselves and learn some business smarts. So it's not just writers and editors.
- Meryl K. Evans
I can see how it would apply if, as part of an assignment, writers have to develop/encourage some advertising.
- Jen Nipps
i feel it's a slippery slope when writers get involved in advertising. a conflict of interest definitely happens, but we can assist in the retention of our subscribers.
- dee
That's a good point. Understanding the business drivers -- and writing to the broad strokes -- may simply be smart business, and smart journalism.
- Tim Beyers
Yes. And where this leaves agents makes interesting food for thought...
- E.F. Slattery
*mini bow* My contributions are not worthy of the acclaim. But to the topic, writers can (and should) understand the economics of it all and writers can (and shouldn't they?) leverage their related networks for the sake of gaining visibility.
- Willowbottom
I think more creative thinking is needed on how to help advertisers reach an audience (they're having a tough time too) -- sometimes editorial people are the best ones to contribute good ideas. I didn't go to J-school, but some of the old thinking about editorial vs. advertising can be a barrier to innovative solutions that could help everyone.
- Jane Friedman
Willowbottom, agreed. I feel it is as much my responsibility as the magazines I'm published in to get my stories in front of readers.
- Lydia Dishman
Certainly so. I'll briefly plug for the Fool here. Had a conversation with one of my editors today about an aspect of our business that needs some attention right now. Increases my confidence in this business, which is my oldest and most important client.
- Tim Beyers
exactly, Tim. It's good to know that editors are listening to contributing editors.
- dee
I think perhaps advertisers need to be re-inventing their model alongside the media.
- Lydia Dishman
Jane, you're an editor. Would you go so far as to share financial data with one of your authors for the sake of building a better model? How open would you be?
- Tim Beyers
Lydia, so right. Publishing, for instance, shifted more of their marketing dollars toward PR last year than advertising.
- dee
Time to settle in for the night. Have a great night all. Thanks for another thought-provoker.
- Meryl K. Evans
Good to see you, Meryl. Have a good one.
- Jen Nipps
Tim, I was just thinking that I need to do a blog post revealing some financial data - on both the mag side and book side. It would definitely be eye-opening. As far as revealing that info to specific authors, I certainly would if I trusted them. Everyone needs to understand the challenges, and sometimes the numbers speak loudest.
- Jane Friedman
Thanks, Meryl. Glad you could be here.
- Tim Beyers
Thanks Meryl!
- Lydia Dishman
Night, Meryl. Good to meet you.
- dee
Maybe I'm naive here, but I see this as a one hand washing the other situation: writers learn the business pressures which can broaden their perspective plus help them self-promote. Likewise, the publishers can leverage the credibility and industry-specific network of their writers to better target.
- Willowbottom
i see what you see, willowbottom
- dee
Jane, I've always met with hesitation on the editors' parts when I've asked about the economics of their publication. Some clearly don't know, but others I believe, fear letting me know too much.
- Lydia Dishman
Lydia, and what is behind the fear in letting you know too much do you think? Is it that they fear loose lips sink ships? Just curious.
- Willowbottom
Lydia - Yes, there's a great deal of hesitation/fear, but I have no idea why. I tend to just distribute info freely, and expect people to use the information responsibly, and to trust them. We're in this together, after all.
- Jane Friedman
That could be, Willow. Also, perhaps they think writers have no business knowing any of "that stuff."
- Jen Nipps
I don't think that's naive, Willow. But I'll also say that I've only seen this pattern among the most enlightened editors I work with.
- Tim Beyers
The fear/hesitation may be related to: thinking authors will suddenly feel mistreated -- or that secrets are getting out to competitors.
- Jane Friedman
Loose lips, I think on the local level, as well as fear that if things weren't totally solid financially, that writers would stop writing. For national mags, I know one case where the editor really had no idea.
- Lydia Dishman
Jane, I'd like to work for you ;-)
- Lydia Dishman
Lydia, I know many cases when the editors had no idea
- dee
Can't believe I have to say this -- because this has been soooo good, thank you all -- but I have to hit the killjoy button. Leaving space for reintros and a link in the next post, coming above.
- Tim Beyers
Party pooper. ;)
- Jen Nipps
--> Jane, I'd like to work for you ;-) (Raises hand.) Me, too.
- Tim Beyers
Totally frustrates me when editors/staffers don't know the financial situation of their publication! Grr. I share this information constantly. It's essential to know. Livelihoods are on the line. (And thanks, Lydia.)
- Jane Friedman
And Tim :)
- Jane Friedman
Good evening all and welcome to the first #editorchat of November. I'm your co-host Lydia Dishman, freelance features writer for print and web.
Your other co-host here. Tim Beyers, tech contributor for The Motley Fool and freelancer covering tech, business, finance, and culture.
- Tim Beyers
hi, all
- dee
Please introduce yourselves as you join in.
- Lydia Dishman
Hey! Freezing in 28 degrees & killing varmints in Iow-ay!
- Becky
Suzi Steffen here. Arts editor at Eugene, OR's alt-weekly and adjunct instructor at U of Oregon's J-school (and about to live-blog an event, so will be popping in and out; West Coast timing issues ... ). My students are especially interested in this kind of discussion!
- Suzi Steffen
Jane Friedman - Publisher of Writer's Digest - Cincinnati
- Jane Friedman
Charles Bohannan here of Wordful LLC in Kamuela, Hawaii. Happy to be here again!
- Charles
Dee, Becky, Suzi -- glad you could all make it. And Suzi, thanks for the offer last week. We should talk more about using that resource as a back-up.
- Tim Beyers
Erin here (Channel V Books)... Are we the only people not watching the game? ;)
- E.F. Slattery
There's a game? ;-)
- Jane Friedman
Game? ;-)
- Suzi Steffen
Who said we weren't watching ;-)
- Lydia Dishman
Who says I'm not watching the game? (On DVR -- only in the top of the second here.)
- Tim Beyers
Glad you could make it, Jane and Erin. Should be an interesting conversation tonight.
- Tim Beyers
Game six of the World Series is on right now - Yanks and Phillies (Tim and I are both ex-NYers)
- Lydia Dishman
And big Yankees fans.
- Tim Beyers
Please nobody talk about the game I'm on Hawaii time and an recording it. Thanks!
- Charles
Who else is with us this evening? Please don't be shy :)
- Lydia Dishman
Dee Stewart. Hybrid: Editor, Blogger, PR firm owner. Atlanta. Edit for mainly Christian publications: Christian Entertainment. How are you all?
- dee
The article that is the basis of tonight's discussion is interesting.
- dee
Rules above. We'l get to the question shortly. And don't worry, Charles: I won't spill.
- Tim Beyers
Okay all, follow me up to the next box where we'll being the discussion thread.
- Lydia Dishman
Hi, all. Sorry I'm late. Jen (@jennipps on Twitter), freelance writer in south Oklahoma.
- Jen Nipps
Late to post on this thread and new to friendfeed. Willowbottom in Portland, OR - project manager by day, IT market research freelancer by night with family members rooting for both teams - so I'm neutral :)
- Willowbottom
Does the oft-expressed need for writers to see a better revenue split really necessitate a new business model? #editorchat
No doubt it varies for each publishing house, but I think most publishers are scrutinizing the strength of the old model in a rapidly changing climate. (And if you're a writer, the answer has to be yes.)
- E.F. Slattery
My guess is "abso-freaking-lutely." Revenue models are at the core of all biz models. How do you not change the publishing business without blowing up the revenue model?
- Tim Beyers
Yes, but I'm not sure of the specifics.
- Charles
not really. understandably, we've grown accustomed to our current and dying pay model. (i.e., publication pay us to write.)
- dee
Right, Erin. This is one of those crisis moments where everything is on the table. Also, if we accept that Jarvis is right -- he may not be, interested in hearing from dissenters -- entrepreneurs are hard-wired for disruption.
- Tim Beyers
How about this: writers get a base pay + commission based on page or site performance from ad or affiliate revenue (some sort of algorithm).
- Charles
I've seen this, Charles. How willing would the writers in this crowd be to operate under a pay-for-performance model? Maybe that's a better question for Harper Collins -- wonder how many top-tier authors are excited about risk-taking.
- Tim Beyers
[You'll have to excuse me...the time change (which we don't observe here in HI) has got me double timing with my "day job," thus I'm a little flighty on the responses/discussion]
- Charles
I hate to say it, but no matter what model we end up with, my gut says that writers will either be earning about the same as they do today, or maybe less. Looking at book publishing in particular, there just isn't the same money to go around, and authors, even with a 50-50 split, may never make the same kind of money as when they received a strong 5- or 6-figure advance. Especially if...
more...
- Jane Friedman
That's the fear, Jane, and I suspect your're right. Increasingly, publishing has become a volume game. I'm not sure how much more I can write.
- Tim Beyers
Tim: sure, it's a risk writers will have to be willing to take if they want to get in on the ground level of what could be a revolutionary publishing business model. Where else are they going to go?
- Charles
That's another reason why authors, especially those who have a decent fan base (10K + sales annual) to consider becoming independent, then they will get more of the money for their work.
- dee
Ian Paul here, freelance contributor to PC World. I like Arrington's idea for the New New York Times, it's essentially a leaner business model doing the same work, just cutting out the printing part and focusing on journalism. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... I think most concepts for the future have to evolve from what's already out there. If you...
more...
- Ian Paul
Allow me to add yet another wrinkle here. Going by the "ideal models" below, the key to publishing profits -- as we see it -- isn't so different from the key to freelancing profits: repurposing content for profit. Yes? No?
- Tim Beyers
Yes, Tim, absolutely, and marketing/measuring it with great precision.
- Charles
Here. Catching up. Been a heckuva day.
- Meryl K. Evans
When it comes to publishing profits, I know I probably won't see the same volume as before (not the same circ levels, not the same book sales levels). So to make the same money/profits, I'm looking at: new types of products that usually involve repurposing of content, all new content (online sub models, events, digital products, education), raising prices when appropriate, and cutting all the fat.
- Jane Friedman
if there was a new business model that would be beneficial to writers, what would it look like?
- dee
Thanks for being here, Ian. We appreciate the comment. Arrington's riff is reminiscent of what Jarvis argues -- the top reporters are entrepreneurial anyway. What I think he misses is the value of the exclusive content that the NYT produces. Or maybe he just doesn't explicitly call it out.
- Tim Beyers
Or perhaps since the NYT has been around so long and has had some...issues, he discounts it?
- Jen Nipps
My thinking is the same as Jane's... no matter the model, it won't turn out better for writers.
- Meryl K. Evans
If so, Jen, I think that would be a mistake. The Times Book Review is still essential reading for many. Local restaurant reviews, etc.
- Tim Beyers
It seems to me that even magazines started by writers to pay writers better don't turn out that well, Meryl.
- Jen Nipps
I agree, Tim. I definitely agree. :) I'm just guess-timating.
- Jen Nipps
Because the revenue stream hasn't caught up with the pay roll. Ads don't work, subscrips don't work, so what to use to pay?
- Lydia Dishman
Why won't it turn out better for writers, Meryl? There are hundreds of opportunities to publish (ebooks or print) that didn't exist five years ago, let alone ten or twenty. My instinct is that if writers started to think of themselves as entrepreneurs (or if those who weren't already, did), they would seek out a model and publishing process that they have more control over.
- E.F. Slattery
Erin, I think it boils down to the cost of doing business regardless of how they try to keep overhead costs down.
- Jen Nipps
Just a quick insert here, and for the record: We've had entrepreneurial writers for years. We call them freelancers. (Many of them, anyway.)
- Tim Beyers
Very good point, Tim. :) Even with freelancers though, there are some who are definitely more entrepreneurial than others.
- Jen Nipps
Hear hear!
- Lydia Dishman
Underpaying writers is a problem that needs to be a the forefront of solutions. I can see why writers have incentive to strike out on their own, but the technology and marketing is already a full-time job.
- Charles
that's a hard one, lydia. I had someone email me this weekend. They asked me if I could tell them for free how to make money online for free? i emailed them back and told them i make money by charging a fee for my service. They didn't respond. In short many expect free content. they don't see that these free content providers are searching for ways to monetize some of this content.
- dee
Much depends on how much money readers will pay for content (because readers pay writers either directly or indirectly). Which publishers are going to produce content that is so irresistible, people won't think twice about paying for it? Few of such publishers exist nowadays, IMHO. But a good example? McSweeney's.
- Jane Friedman
The other question is what kind of credibility will these new models have in the eyes of the reader/consumer? Will they value books, for example, that come from self-publishing writers? They don't now, do they? Even if you take a mainstream writer with a big following, Stephen King or someone like that, would future books succeed without a "stamp of authority" from a third-party aka the publisher?
- Ian Paul
Erin, I agree that writers need to think of themselves as entrepreneurs. But so much is coming out and we can only buy and read so much. Then there are the content mills they pay piddly. It could beget more.
- Meryl K. Evans
Charles, so true. And for indie writers there is more risk and investment, so the bottom line may be close to someone writing for a publisher.
- dee
As far as self-publishing goes, the stigma against it is because there is so much unedited drivel out there. I've recently been coming across more professional, edited self-pub'd books, but they're still pretty scarce.
- Jen Nipps
Exactly, Dee, which comes back to the today's original question about a new publishing business model...it's badly needed.
- Charles
I'm not so sure about that, Ian. Social media is a leveler. When publishers can no longer control the channel that tells us what to read, quality storytelling -- irrespective of publisher -- gets the nod. A following is more important than a seal, I think.
- Tim Beyers
And conversely Tim, it tells people that they can (and should) get content for free.
- Lydia Dishman
Good point, Jane. The new model question begins and ends with what the reader will buy.
- Tim Beyers
Yes, Tim, that's been a fundamental change worth noting.
- Charles
When PW's list of the year's top novels is all male, I think the gatekeeping system can stand to be shaken up...
- E.F. Slattery
Byron Krystad here from Seattle, checking in late. On the self-publishing theme that Jen continues, are writer/editor partnerships without traditional publishers a new model? Join quality product with social media distribution? Not sure about the "should be free" assumption by readers, though.
- Byron Krystad
Is it normal for PW to release the year's top books when we have two months left of the year? I don't recall this.
- Meryl K. Evans
Or do they go by a fiscal calendar instead of the yearly calendar?
- Jen Nipps
Great question, Tim. What will the reader buy?
- dee
Last question coming. Scroll to the top in 30 seconds.
- Tim Beyers
It seems to me that if there were to be an innovation in the writer compensaton business model, any individual gains would be offset by unanticipated costs unless some kind of related value-add was incorporated with.
- Willowbottom
You may have read the @jeffjarvis piece on entrepreneurs being the future of journalism so the main question is this: What publishing business would you start today --and how would you do it?
Here's the article for those who haven't seen it: http://seekingalpha.com/article...
- Tim Beyers
I'll float an idea to get us started. I think the publishing business is moving towards confederations. Confederations of writers serving thinly-staffed magazines, confederations of authors and book editors working with book publishers or even self-publishing, and so on. Comments?
- Tim Beyers
that's already happening
- dee
The confederation model could definitely be a key model. There's now a "collective" of writers who are doing pretty much exactly what you describe to self-publish and distribute books, within a specific interest area/genre (Le Guin oriented).
- Jane Friedman
Can you give us some examples of confederations, Dee?
- Tim Beyers
Ones you like or admire, I mean?
- Tim Beyers
Taking Jarvis's metaphor, I think it's absolutely true that publishers have to be entrepreneurs (and I
- E.F. Slattery
to a certain extend Dee, it is, but I think people are still not willing to give it a name and make it "official" business.
- Lydia Dishman
I've seen that headline several times, but I haven't read the article yet. Going to look now ...
- Becky
true. it has happened organically in my experience
- dee
Link to sci-fi publishing collective: http://www.thebookseller.com/news...
- Jane Friedman
Jane, do you think there's a movement to organize the collective into a confederation ... or whatever we want to call it?
- Tim Beyers
Taking a cue from Jarvis, writers and publishers are going to have to become entrepreneurs--which means shaking up the traditional model, a la HarperStudio's 50-50 split with authors, or (as you mentioned) self-pubbing.
- E.F. Slattery
Authors do most of the legwork anymore anyway ... even WITH big publishing houses.
- Becky
I like what I'm hearing about Harper Studio, Erin. I'm not a book author (yet), so I can't speak to their business. Can anyone here give a better perspective on their model?
- Tim Beyers
I tend to think along the lines of Mike Shatzkin: big publishers who are more mass-market (general audience) oriented will continue to consolidate and focus on the bestsellers, then small presses and collectives that have niche orientations will develop to support works that aren't of bestseller stature.
- Jane Friedman
I'd start a niche content publishing business that produces small but powerful websites i.e. Big Island of Hawaii site (with excellent content, of course) monetized with hotel, tour affiliate links and maybe an ebook that offers "insider secrets" or something to that effect
- Charles
Harper Studio does not pay a heavy advance, but gives the author marketing money and a better payout on the back end from what I gathered
- dee
As far as I know (and I'm not affiliated w/ HS), they offer a 50-50 profit share, Tim, rather than the traditional royalties.
- E.F. Slattery
I'd like to deal with neighborhood blogging and iPhones, Blackberries, etc - maybe apps for other smart phones that aren't served yet. (But this is not about books.)
- Suzi Steffen
HarperStudio offers a partnership model that theoretically eliminates really large advances, and incentivizes authors to market/promote through significant royalties. I have to question whether it's really 50-50, though. As someone who negotiates contracts on behalf of a book publisher, that's a tough model to make work.
- Jane Friedman
Interesting, Suzi. There is a publisher whose name I can't remember that is solely focused on publishing content for iPhones and other smartphones. Audio reporting.
- Tim Beyers
Thanks to Charles and Suzi for reminding us of the original question. What would your ideal publishing business look like were you to start it today?
- Tim Beyers
Definitely--if I had to pick five people to watch as publishing evolves, Mike Shatzkin would be at the top of the list, along with Andrew Savikas, Cory Doctorow, and others...
- E.F. Slattery
Let's not forget that AOL is quietly amassing a huge number of freelance journalists to provide content for their Web site.
- Lydia Dishman
Jane, I agree. It's not 50/50 but the cost of publishing and gaining good distributors makes the unilateral partnership a bit more agreeable.Thomas Nelson is doing something similar with Waterbrook Press. You can independent publish, but have the backing of the company and their distributors. Distribution is a big deal/
- dee
Distribution and publicity, Dee. Getting authors PR is a big piece of the revenue puzzle, don't you think?
- Lydia Dishman
I would like to start a publishing business that looks at the writer as an information asset then just an author. I would want to take a story and turn it into a book, ebook, graphic novel if it can turnover into that and possible script, since movies aren't as expensive to make.
- dee
As a publicist, Lydia...for sure... but you can promote all day long, but if the book can't be found then it hurts business. Last summer I experienced something similar with a major publishing house at a national book event. We had to call around to all the bookstores in town just to get more books, because there was a problem with their Central Florida distributor.
- dee
Per my earlier entry: The smartphone publisher I referred to is Sniplits: http://www.sniplits.com/index...
- Tim Beyers
Ideal publishing model: has a distinct target (probably niche) audience that is easily reached via online methods. Print products are premium products. Authors make most of their money not on the sale of print books, but on a variety of content offerings and personalization efforts. See Cory Doctorow's experiment - http://www.publishersweekly.com/article... - I think that's one future I see for authors, at the very least.
- Jane Friedman
Jane -- that's exactly what I have in mind.
- Charles
If you want to scale the model that Jane and I are talking about, you can brand your content and build a large media company from that.
- Charles
Doctorow's experiment *is* interesting. Made me think of open source after I read it, perhaps because I cover tech. Open source publishing?
- Tim Beyers
Quietly amassing ... yes, but does AOL plan to PAY those freelance journalists?
- Becky
Going to a new question above.
- Tim Beyers
O'Reilly has done terrific stuff with open-source publishing, soliciting feedback from readers at every step of the way (for tech manuals). Interesting implications for other genres...
- E.F. Slattery
Becky- apparently yes, I know people who have written and been paid.
- Lydia Dishman
Doctorow had a pretty big name before he started the open source book writing, I think. But he's addressed that rather directly in a recent column for the Guardian. In any case, I think open source is fascinating - like musicians giving music away and making money from concerts.
- Suzi Steffen
Whoops, I see you're on the next question (going back and forth from a live blog for my job ;-) ).
- Suzi Steffen
Keep going on intros and anything else you want to discuss as I go to the rules. Tweeps, we're on FriendFeed at http://friendfeed.com/editorc... #editorchat
Rule No. 1 Observers welcome but #editorchat is for those who are, or those who work with, editor
- Tim Beyers
Rule No. 2 Stay on topic. #editorchat
- Tim Beyers
Rule No. 3. Courteous comments, please. (Thank you, sir. Ma’am.) #editorchat
- Tim Beyers
And everyone’s favorite rule — Rule No. 4. Spammers will be electrocuted. (Your computer *is* wired, pal.) #editorchat
- Tim Beyers
Rule No. 5 No crickets. We're here to chat; come join us. #editorchat
- Tim Beyers
Goose Grade - Let your readers copy edit your content. - http://www.goosegrade.com/
Interesting idea, especially for bloggers who have yet to find a peer who can help with edits.
- Tim Beyers
DoesFollow - doesfollow.com - Find out who follows whom on Twitter - http://www.doesfollow.com/
Could be interesting for sourcing, etc.
- Tim Beyers
Well, it's that time. Please reintroduce yourselves before you go and provide a link if you'd like. #editorchat
Becky, freelancing (and freezing) in Iowa. You can find me at Deep Muck Big Rake. Thanks, Lydia & Tim for another great chat!
- Becky
Tim Beyers, also freezing but nestled along the southern base of the Rockies in southwest Denver. Your co-host here and Motley Fool tech contributor. My latest rant about corporate malfeasance: http://www.fool.com/investi...
- Tim Beyers
Corporate malfeasance. Yum. Better go get some. :)
- Becky
Thanks to everyone who joined in tonight. Well done.
- Tim Beyers
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