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Michael Metz › Comments
The War For the Web - O'Reilly Radar - http://radar.oreilly.com/2009...
: Pretty complicated war, you'll need a program to follow it.
- Michael Metz
from Bookmarklet
For Your Eyes Only - http://www.techcrunchit.com/2009...
Gillmor muses on Wave, Cisco and IBM, where is collaboration going?
- Michael Metz
from Bookmarklet
Amazon: People who shopped for baseball bats also shopped for… - http://thenextweb.com/2009...
it wasn't baseballs
- Michael Metz
from Bookmarklet
Special Gillmor Gang realtime rerun 1PM Pacific today http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Susan Beebe, Josh Fraser, Denise Howell and 12 other people liked this
I missed this Gillmor Gang the first time, I was working...
- Cliff Gerrish
lot of buffering right now, unwatchable, or is it just me?
- HansVanRock
Working for me. Seems pretty smooth.
- Cliff Gerrish
thought mine had buffering probs till I realized I had it opened in two windows
- Michael Metz
geez, i've been looking all over for this. JUST NOW found it.
- Karoli
anyone know if it's available on itunes?
- Michael Metz
Try http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... for older shows
- Jack
I understand it'll eventually be available on YouTube.
- Cliff Gerrish
this is cracking me up. LOL...
- Karoli
Where was Feldman? Love the setting he's in.
- Karoli
dude, scoble's feed looks like mine. and he has a zillion more follows.
- Karoli
can't get the video on my iphone. what's up with that?
- Karoli
got it -- ustream viewer on iPhone. not as smooth as it is on the mac
- Karoli
that's "punked", not "pwned", but it's all good :)
- Kurtiss Hare
thx kurtis
- Steve Gillmor
holy shit. Loren trusts CNN? that's his first mistake.
- Karoli
thx for watching RObert
- Steve Gillmor
So, was this the first episode since the new setup?
- Kurtiss Hare
more in that I sort of know how the feed went but can get a different view while watching. both are similar experiences
- Steve Gillmor
totally impressed w/video quality and stream on my mac...iphone is a little more herky-jerky via UStream app.
- Karoli
Robert, me too. I used to listen to Newsgang LIve afterwards too, because being in it and seeing it later are so different.
- Karoli
Kurtis yes, we had several false starts
- Steve Gillmor
I'll buy one.
- Kurtiss Hare
I'm enjoying this - thanks for replaying it, Steve
- Hilary Talbot
ROFL...we are definitely in a theater.
- Karoli
lol, the meltdowns continue
- Mark
Does David Sanborn appreciate cell phone use during his live sets?
- Kurtiss Hare
this is great. love it. such high theatre.
- Karoli
"cell phone off" doesn't mean the same thing as "ringer off" does it? Too much talking... not enough listening...
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm waiting for him to stream one of those live sets. (and don't tell Loren I tweet from church...LOL)
- Karoli
david sanborn loves when people tweet about his show during concerts
- Steve Gillmor
this is AWESOME
- Mark
feldman is ALL OVER Scoble
- Mark
this is better watching the second time around
- Jay Cuthrell
Loren should do his own talk show
- Jesse Stay
+1 Jesse (same thought just 2 seconds to late)
- HansVanRock
Loren -is- his own talk show
- Jay Cuthrell
lolllllllllllllllllllll
- Mark
Great great delivery
- Jay Cuthrell
I tuned in late and got hit in the face with this... hm. Missed what brought down Loren's wrath on Robert.
- Ken Sheppardson
Loren's all over the place, by his own logic, why should CNN be authoritative when they're not the ones making the news?
- Kurtiss Hare
Ken - There is a FF thread over in building43 that covered the back and forth for the original live airing
- Jay Cuthrell
this is the point where i want to thank Steve that Gillmor Gang is back
- HansVanRock
steve, where did you just post your reply re: Sanborn loving tweets during sets? I can't find it on this thread...(confusion)
- Karoli
what the fuck just happened
- Mark
rock on, Steve. great show, so glad it's back.
- Karoli
here you Ken: http://friendfeed.com/realtim...
- Jay Cuthrell
thats it?
- HansVanRock
AND SCENE
- Jay Cuthrell
with all the respect to you GANG you can do this better in close doors sorry
- Johni Fisher
Keith Jarrett would probably just end the concert. Suppose it depends on the artistic temperament.
- Kurtiss Hare
Loren and Scoble at each other's throats. Theatre. Drama. Fake blood. Professional wrestling at its most amateur.
- Michael Markman
Sigh. Somebody lemme know where there's an RSS feed for the bootleg audio, will ya?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, have you looked over on UStream? There may be video there...
- Karoli
I checked UStream but the only archives are Steve playing with the initial setup.
- Jay Cuthrell
there will be a YouTube version soon
- Steve Gillmor
The quality of the broadcast (technology) is outstanding
- Jay Cuthrell
Steve : why always to fight ?
- Johni Fisher
where can I subscribe to this show?
- No Agenda Forums
Johni life can be a struggle
- Steve Gillmor
there will be an RSS feed on gillmorgang.techcrunch.com
- Steve Gillmor
Steve DO you really think that Feldman is a Gang member ? speaking as he spoke to Robert ?
- Johni Fisher
The Gillmor Gang is who I say it is
- Steve Gillmor
and ?
- Johni Fisher
just subscribed to http://friendfeed.com/realtim... having it sent to FF notifier popup.
- Karoli
Johni, Feldman might be a LIfetime Gang member. Just sayin'. :)
- Karoli
and what?
- Steve Gillmor
Thanks Steve. Looking forward to listening.
- No Agenda Forums
GG is amorphous, but I sure do miss a voice like Udell's, back in the day.
- Kurtiss Hare
thanks for listening No Agenda
- Steve Gillmor
I was thinking about the limitations on TV broadcast video for a simulcast with sidebar conversation... not sure how many people have 62" TV's yet that would support offload to a interstital and separate chat window (reminds me of early AOL experiments with interactive pre-IPTV)
- Jay Cuthrell
I talk with Udell all the time, just not on the air recently
- Steve Gillmor
[ (TV) (sidebar) ] would be a pretty big screen
- Jay Cuthrell
okay, later. Lots of fun, Steve, thanks for rerunning for lamers like me who missed the first round.
- Karoli
good to see you Karoli
- Steve Gillmor
I just like how varied the personalities are on the show. Bass. Drums. Guitar. Harmonica.
- Jay Cuthrell
back to work... later folks
- Jay Cuthrell
If anyone missed this rerun there's an MP3 here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/bootleg...
- Jack
thx jack
- Christopher Harris
Thx for the bootleg Jack!
- Kahlil Lechelt
Yes thanks very much for the bootlegs Jack, much appreciated all around.
- Michael Breslin
btw thank you for recording the prev show!
- Michael Pinto
Listened to the bootleg feed, great show. I doubt I'll ever watch live as I'm more a radio guy. Loren's comment as being a trusted source for reporting the Michael Jackson funeral has a disturbing similarity to Blackwater being a trusted source for the US Military. I'm all for keeping Feldman and Keen on the show and it was great hearing Calacanis again, Scoble on the other hand.... It's your show Steve
- Jason Adams
Just returned from holiday to discover that Steve has put the gang back together. Great first show. Love the fact that Steve no longer sounds like a call-in guest on his own show. Thanks to whoever set up the bootleg mp3 feed - vital for this long-term listener. Keep up the good work, chaps and chapesses!
- Richard Carter, FCD
from iPhone
Excited to announce The Gillmor Gang will return to the network Thursdays at 1PM Pacific, starting Thursday August 27th. Stay tuned.
Rui Pereira, patrick, Julien and 77 other people liked this
Because someone needs to get it out of the way... "Screw You Arrington. Screw You!"
- Bastard Operator From FF
yay!
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Which Network?
- George MacDonald
Excellent news. I've missed the show. TWiT?
- No Agenda Forums
Good, good.
- Jonathan Brown
Looking forward to it. Always pop new shows to the top of the stack.
- Paul Grous
*shudder*.. I hope not... The show wasn't the same by a wide margin when it was on TWiT...
- Rasmus Lauridsen
That's great news. Love the show.
- Kahlil Lechelt
nice one - can't wait to tune in again
- pablo
Tremendous news. Looking forward to it.
- Mike Doeff
Sweet. - Gillmor Gang was one of my favorite couple hours of the week. Dave and Marshall are doing a nice job over at bad hair day - but I am definitely excited for the return of GG.
- andrew
Will it be available for download again?
- nick
Excellent.
- Jay Cuthrell
Hallelujah!
- Dan Weinstein
Show must go on.
- Mindaugas Dagys
Truly glad to hear it! Also like the NGL sign on your Twitpic. :)
- Karoli
Whooooooooooo----f'king hoooooooooo! It's on my Calendar-in-the-Cloud
- Francine Hardaway
More comebacks than Sinatra, yay :-) Will there be a podcast of it too, pretty please for your *fans* that can't make the time schedule?
- Scottish Lass
Steve: This is great news!
- Jim Connolly
Somebody better update the Wikipedia entry...
- Cliff Gerrish
YES! YES! YES! Thank you Steve - this makes me happy!
- Michael Pinto
For those on the other side of the planet will you be able to grab the show via RSS - oh I forgot RSS is dead, right?
- John Chrisoulakis
Good!
- John Wright
yay! Best news of the week! All I guess this an announcement that the Gillmor Gang is dead as well!
- Phillip Molly Malone
I might be able to come out of hiding now... we'll see.
- Aron Michalski
Excellent news to end the week! Look forward to it.
- Diego Barros
What a one-two punch. Gillmor serves it up on Thurs aft and the Bad Hair Boys knock it out of the park in the early evening! :-)
- Dave Winer
Good news. So who's on the show?
- Michael Metz
Probably too much to ask, but for posterity, please repost the GG archives! There, I said it.
- Scott Mace
There go my afternoons!
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Will be interesting to see, will Mr. Arrington be participating...lol
- Johann Diaz
from Nambu
Missed the Gang so much and with the NGL Studio, it will be a tough act to follow for the Bad Hair boys :) #TechThursday FTW
- Alberto Saavedra
why wouldn't Arrington be in it sometimes? It really was Leo who was a "take my ball and go home" crybaby
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Way to go. Looking forward to it.
- Oliver Kohl
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Susan Beebe
This news has made my month! I can't wait...
- Chris Aldrich
i'm hoping that timeshifting options will be available - i probably won't ever be able to catch it live
- Chris Heath
But, but, but...what about podshow?
- Mark Hunter
Very happy to hear this, but I also wonder about RSS support.
- Robert
w00t!!
- Kevin Nunez
Now that's what I'm talkin' about.
- Raphael, Raphael
Where can I find it?
- Richard South
Steve's back!
- Harald Felgner
Microblogging has become too important for Twitter to rule the field. - By Farhad Manjoo - Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/id... - http://www.slate.com/id...
Hope it hurries
- Michael Metz
from Bookmarklet
http://twitpic.com/aztsp - Me at the first hut on Kilimanjaro 2720m above sea level
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great pix, keep them coming
- Michael Metz
Will be uploading more pics to flickr soon, I'll email you when this has been completed.
- Zoe Sands
I've created a group that I want to keep private, but when I add a comment, it shows up on my public feed/stream. how can I keep comments within the private group/room?
Kol Tregaskes, Jeroen De Miranda and Brandon Titus liked this
Is the group private? Comments made on entries in a private group stay private.
- Benjamin Golub
I misspoke, it wasn't a comment, I "shared" a posting in the private group which then appeared on my "home feed." Am I the only one who can see my home feed--isn't that visible to the public?
- Michael Metz
Sharing makes an entirely new entry. It's similar to copy pasting the entry into the box and sharing that way. So if you are sharing to a public place (like your feed) then it would be visible to the public. A good example is share is like forwarding an email.
- Benjamin Golub
Your Home feed is a personalized view that only you see that contains the entries from the people and groups that you are subscribed to, including any private users or groups. Anything you post to your feed ("My feed") is visible to anyone who goes to your profile page at http://friendfeed.com/mimetz (when you've set your profile to be public)
- Dan Hsiao
Also, as a general rule of thumb, if you see a small lock next to the timestamp it means that the entry is private and only visible to the people who are part of the same private group or feed.
- Ross Miller
Dave Winer chose Sarah Palin as a source of inspiration in our latest Rebooting the News podcast. (I dissented.) His post: http://www.scripting.com/stories...
Josette Torres, mjc and Dave Winer liked this
I'm bothered by the savaging she's getting. Guess I'm with Dave on this one.
- Michael Metz
I'm not bothered by it all. If anything I think people have been too kind to her, especially within her own party. She chose the path of culture war. She sullied her own introduction to the American people with it. She arrived pre-resentful. She's unfit for office. And an alien to the concept of accountability. Palin is the biggest insult hurled at the body politic since Joseph McCarthy, and no, I am not making any idle comparisons to McCarthy, just periodizing Palin.
- Jay Rosen
"The Marion Barry of the conservative movement" http://is.gd/1rWzU
- gnarlytrombone
You go Jay!
- Bonnie Foster
Palin to Time magazine: "Now, there's been some frustration with some in the media not fully reporting what's been going on, so this may come as a shock to some Alaskans. We have sat down with reporters, showed them proof of the frivolity, the wastefulness — you know, millions of dollars this is costing our state to fight frivolous charges. And countless, countless hours from my staff,...
more...
- Jay Rosen
John Fund of the Wall Street Journal on how helpful she has been to reporters: "Governor Palin tried hunkering down. She ignored offers of help from outside and kept media outlets at a distance. "Palin had become so suspicious of the media that she rejected hundreds of requests by even friendly reporters to interview her. Her press aides say that before considering interviews, she...
more...
- Jay Rosen
I don't think it's correct to say she lies. She just doesn't know what truth is. Truth is whatever comes to her mind to justify herself at the moment. She's a sham politician.
- Jay Rosen
Jay: I'm not going to pile on her. At this point it only helps her anyway. I bet she's going into media to compete with Rush Limbaugh. She'll find a willing audience and do quite well in that role. It won't be good for discourse for the reasons you've laid out, but she will make tons of money and she will have her fans.
- Robert Scoble
the fact the she has any political standing with an increasing following frightens me. But then again, Americans enjoy watching train wrecks.
- Bob Blunk
She can be the Sally Jesse Raphael for out of touch old white rednecks there's millions of those especially in Texas
- John Sullivan
I agree, Robert; the only possible landing points for her are Fox or talk radio; she can be rich as the female Rush. And I agree she will do quite well at that. Meanwhile, we need a reality-based opposition party. McCain in his cowardice delayed the confrontation within the Republican party between those who think observables do have to be part of politics, and another element for whom a propaganda state with sham politicians like Palin is fine. That is still going on and so Palin matters.
- Jay Rosen
Has anyone else noticed how much anger ambitious women in politics foment? People from the right seem to really hate Hillary Clinton and people from the left seem to truly hate Palin. Although G W Bush was an exception, it doesn't seem like male politicians illicit such a visceral reaction. Hopefully, those two are just exceptionally polarizing and it's not a symptom of some unconscious sexism. I guess Geraldine Ferraro was pretty innocuous.
- Chip Ramsey
Palin could skip getting a fox show and just sell out speaking venues, pack out stadiums around the country, pay off her legal fees and build a war chest along with momentum for 2012.
- Christian Burns
State of the Internet: Globally, Broadband Continues to Grow http://gigaom.com/2009...
This is news? "Broadband growth stalls" would be news.
- Michael Metz
Just added myself to the Cisco.com network on http://comtweets.com/network... #comtweets
broken url
- Michael Metz
Is Your Company Thinking that Social Media is a Job? - http://www.conversationagent.com/2009...
Dobromir Hadzhiev, Steve Temple, bora "head" basman and 13 other people liked this
Is a fat dog heavy? Absolutely, in fact it's several jobs.
- Michael Metz
that was a good article. judging by the way so many ads for social media "managers" are written lately, I think a lot of companies don't get this.
- Laura Norvig
The take-away, "This is about people re-adjusting and rebalancing the very idea of business" is important indeed. Thank you.
- E-Advocate Network
Kenya, Tanzania and Zanzibar Tour - my preparation completed!
Really happy that all my preparation for my forthcoming trip to Kenya, Tanzania and Zanzibar is sorted. Here’s a map of my trip courtesy of Exodus - http://zoesands.tumblr.com/post...
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Michael Metz liked this
Pls keep us up to date as you go, good luck and bon voyage!
- Michael Metz
This idiot says that people were scared of Palin as VP has something to do with her infant son. http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009...
Disagree Dave, the blog mostly says the left attacked her for using the son as a photo prop, a claim supported by his references. I'm an Obama supporter and thought Palin unqualified for national office, but also thought she was attacked pretty viscously by the left. There seemed to be an over the top criticism level of her.
- Michael Metz
He said people hated Palin, and I have a policy of not using the word hate unless what we're talking about really is hate. I read Andrew Sullivan's pieces about the baby, and I thought they deserved a response. The rest of it is fringe stuff. There are plenty of right-wing assholes to more than balance it. I've never met anyone who hates Palin -- everyone who has a negative opinion of her that I've heard from was actually scared of the prospect of her becoming VP to a cancer-surviving 72-year old president.
- Dave Winer
MG Siegler: twitter comments can replace email, worked for postcards: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
"MG Siegler"
- Michael Metz
from Bookmarklet
Tweeting less and updating Facebook more. May I suggest following me in FriendFeed to get it all? http://friendfeed.com/ellefri...
Is yr email inbox full? emails r bouncing back
- Michael Metz
Here it is, a clear simple story of how how Google might be surpassed by realtime: http://twoogle.browsys.com/index... - http://twoogle.browsys.com/index...
"realtime web"
- Michael Metz
from Bookmarklet
Mike Arrington is leading the mob. Read his anti-FriendFeed rant here and tell us whether he is wrong or right. Oh, and welcome to the mob:
Mitchell Tsai, Tyson Key, andy brudtkuhl and 131 other people liked this
He'll be back...he's just going to milk this for all it's worth first.
- Garin Kilpatrick
Do not feed the trolls.
- monkeystick
I think he is looking for page views and a way to get the mob to come to his real time event on July 10th. Brilliantly played Mr. Arrington!
- Robert Scoble
Maybe it will bring some more people to FF who haven't been on it which is a good thing.
- Mike Bracco
"FriendFeed today is like Syphilis in 1495." -Arrington. I'd say that's taking this a bit too far.
- Garin Kilpatrick
I understand objectively there's strengths and weaknesses, but I also find that this discussion is teetering of the verge of irrelevance. Can you make it clear to me (in seriousness) the value from this friendfeed versus anti friendfeed arguement? Are we looking forward to the next tool? Or to making improvements to friendfeed?
- Malcolm Bastien
Mike: I doubt it.
- Robert Scoble
Wow. Maybe I should go burn the TC shirt that LG and I liberated from TC headquarters a few months back in protest. Reminds me of his other recent rant about Facebook (http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...). Mike definitely doesn't hold back in how he expresses his opinion through his blog posts. Regardless of whether he's...
more...
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
Do you think it was specifically an anti-Friendfeed rant, Robert? Some of the comments that poured in after the "Laporte Incident" were pretty horrible. If I was on the receiving end of that, I'd think I'd be feeling like a mob was after my head. Also, don't you think that his point about people feeling more comfortable to "talk hate" using their own/real names is a good one?
- Andrew Terry
Wow that's kinda harsh, I wonder what brought that on...
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
I don't understand why Mike is wasting time and effort on those death threat comments from the idiots that posted them. Why is he giving them any real credit? They should be dismissed. They should be ignored. They're the grown up versions of youtube commenters.
- Lise
The thread with Aaron last week demonstrates that the FF community is reasonable and self-correcting. FF also provides fine grained controls so that you DON'T see what you don't want. Mobs are simply human nature. Dissapointingly so. Mike may as well call for the abolition of Town Halls, Community Clubs and the like.
- Roberto Bonini
As long as Mob leaders like Laporte keep it together no trolls get hurt.
- Garin Kilpatrick
Arrington should go crawl back into his cave
- Daniel Lazarides
I have a feeling Arrington is developing a relationship with FF analogous to Dvorak's with Apple. ie. piss off the faithful (get traffic), blog about the nasty community members attacking you (more traffic), eventually reverse yourself and please the community (more traffic again). Lather-rinse-repeat.
- Michael R. Bernstein
If Mike doesn't like mobs he should open a private room here on friendfeed.
- Robert Scoble
that was some badly strained argumentation by Arrington - FAIL
- William Harryman
I feel the same way about this argument that I do about people who complain about television. Stop whining. If you don't like what's on, change the channel or turn the TV off. FF, like any online community, is based on elective participation. If you don't like what's happening, move on to something else. Also, people take what's written in these forums WAY too seriously. If you can't take the occasional insult, get off the web and go find something else to do with your time.
- Kevin Pedraja
And last i checked, Leo is NOT a mob leader. Or a Troll leader.
- Roberto Bonini
Andrew: mobs have always formed online. FriendFeed does allow them to form faster but Arrington should go read Digg and YouTube comments for a while. The stuff I have seen here is pretty easy going compared to those.
- Robert Scoble
Go to a forum with lots of members and ask a noobish question and watch the mob flame you into the middle of next week.
- Mark
Michael: bing! Arrington is the best at whiping up crowds. Anyone remember when he called France lazy?
- Robert Scoble
"We're going back to reruns. F**k you guys I'm throwing you all off. Mike Arrington is the most trollish person ever." - Leo Laporte
- Danny Minick
Andrew: I think everyone here generally agrees with Mike that those types of comments are out of line. Can't blame Mike for feeling touchy about them.
- Roberto Bonini
Danny that's the irony in all this. Arrington is the King of The Trolls! Leo called him the biggest troll "in the world" a few times.
- Mark
I used to read techcrunch and even comment once in a while. Mike Arrington has been consistently losing credibility with me these past few months, and now has forfeited the last bit. I was going to comment over there, but it really has ceased to be worth my time. I'm even sorry I clicked over to his article. Interesting that I wouldn't even have known for it if not for this post on...which service is this again, oh yes, ...friendfeed.
- Jim Misses SP
It seems to me that Mike wants the attention or he wouldn't have post this. He just doesn't like it if it doesn't go his way. He sort of like the guy who finds a bees nest and pokes a stick in it. They finally calm down and they poke it again and are surprised by the results
- Kim Landwehr
Jim: welcome to MobFeed. :-)
- Robert Scoble
I'm in my Godfather.
- Thomas Chai
He's got some points, and I give him credit for a heck-of-a 'creative' post, but this is fairly typical human behavior stuff. I think it's funny that the he says, "the system is breaking under it’s own weight. It is not sustainable." because he got flamed out by some people with the chutzpa (or stupidity) to do it from an account that identified them personally.
- Chris Duffy
Kim: Arrington is smarter than that. He knows there are a lot of people here and he is about to monetize the real time web with a conference.
- Robert Scoble
Whats this conference you are refering to Rob ? x
- Mark
Yep a online service that accounts for a small percentage of internet users will destroy everything Arrington holds dear. Syphilis?
- Andy Foster
Kim: this is all about Arrington setting his conference up well. I will be a part of it from London.
- Robert Scoble
[sigh] i guess Arrington just can't stop himself.
- MikeAmundsen
"I’m going to pick on" - words say it all
- Paul Rawlings
Anyone have a link to this real time conference he is doing?
- Mark
Speaking of realtime, why hasn't Arrington or O'Reilly grabbed the title "Realtime Web" for a series of conferences ala Web 2.0?--maybe you should first Robert!
- Michael Metz
I guess it's working
- Ken Morley
Mike: Arrington is taking advantage of the fact that WE can't stop ourselves.
- Robert Scoble
Exactly, Robert.
- Ken Morley
Well, that explains a lot Robert
- Kim Landwehr
What was that link again? Lol!
- Ken Morley
is buddyfeed realtime?
- Tyler Gillies
from BuddyFeed
so he's not calling for technical solution to a (potential) behavior problem...he's just stirring the pot and setting the table for conference...No, we can't stop ourselves can we. Effective troll is effective
- Chris Duffy
Arrington is @replying you on twitter robby
- Mark
a) learn to use Block b) like twitter is sooo much better :/ c) waste of a read.. I thought Techcrunch did actual stories on stuff, not rants. Guess I was wrong.
- Tim Hoeck
here is the link http://www.techcrunch.com/real-ti...
- Johni Fisher
Well, the worst thing we as the FF community could do is prove him right by "attacking" back and name-calling for what he's said. Fanning the flames justifies his opinion. Hey, if it makes people wonder what going on with this "FriendFeed" thing and they come check it and realize it's not at all like what he was saying...all the better. So, let him have his opinion and spotlight.
- CAJ, somewhere else
@Robert: IMO, Arrington is doing the same thing he always does: setting himself up for some abuse from others. it's so sad to watch. in this case, he'll likely get what we is asking for, too. *again*
- MikeAmundsen
Probably should have said fein surprise
- Kim Landwehr
thx Johni,
- Mark
IMO, He's wrong. And, as mentioned, tossing gasoline on the fire by pretending to be outraged by such supposed mobs while deliberately inciting them.
- Bob Morris (polizeros)
@arrington just wrote that I should propose tools to slow down the mob. Yes, we have those in Iran and China. I would rather have the mob.
- Robert Scoble
I think Arrington just wants to destroy a medium that he can't control.
- Nathan Cooprider
I really thing that this was more about online mobs with FriendFeed as an example rather than specifically about FriendFeed. Yes he uses FriendFeed as the example, but I don't think the points he makes are related solely to FriendFeed. You could easily replace FriendFeed with Digg or Huffingtonpost. Some place where people gather in mass and you can easily see a mob mentality grow.
- Michael Koby
Robert!!!!!!! :)
- Myrna
Of course he is right. When the wrong people come together than everything can happen. Same is true if good people. Even a revolution (specially Wednesday). People on FF and similar services have lots of power. Can be used to change the world!
- bishoph
seeing the link to that conference that he's hosting next week and seeing this post give me a new level of respect for his craftiness, although he couldn't have done it w/o you Robert.
- Chris Duffy
Yes Chris, he is a sly old dog isn't he? Tickets might be going too slow or something
- Mark
I think so.
- Chris Duffy
The association with Syphilis is kind of weird. I think any public figure gets hate mail, electronically or otherwise.
- Ace
@Michael Koby, I'd agree with you (to a certain extent), if the article wasn't...specifically about FriendFeed. And about an event that occurred to Arrington personally, no less. I'd have a lot more respect for his argument if he'd spend the time to find more examples. This just looks like someone who's had a flamewar turn on him that's fighting back with his own bullhorn.
- Ken Kennedy
Bishoph: or a mob can break glass and burn buildings and hurt people. What do you want to use your mob for?
- Robert Scoble
He probably just read a book on syphilis. When I read a book on something I like to make links to the topic to make me appear well-read and smart.
- Mark
He (as usual) has some valid points. FF is a great conversation tool but when it becomes a chat room, it's not up to the task. Just as in public, I tend to avoid these mobs here on FF. 58 comments on this right now is fine but 1000 is useless. I know you don't agree, but IRC is much more useful for that.
- John Rubier
It would help if Mike actually understood how he could shape his FriendFeed experience. There are such things as blocking and hiding. It also seems like those who can dish it out but not take it run screaming from FriendFeed - which invites *real* interaction and conversation. Yeah, it's sometimes unruly, but that's reality folks! If you want the *dated* version of arm's length, yell...
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- AJ Kohn
I can't make it to Arrington's event on July 10th (I live in Boston..and the event is in SF), but I hope it gets a lot of coverage online so that the rest of us can learn from what is shared :)
- Sam Houston
Look what services like Twitter and FF did for Iran. Just a medium to share and discuss (real time) information. Of course the used words in the blog are misleading and obviously rant (a troll post to start a discussion in real time :-).
- bishoph
(Robert Scoble) -- "this is all about Arrington setting his conference up well. I will be a part of it from London. " -- next time, put this at the beginning of your post, Robert. I'm NOT interested in being a part of this childish crap. If you have actually have a problem with the post, you shouldn't either. If this thread is to help TC drum up word-of-mouth about a conference, that's...
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- Ken Kennedy
Could argue that MobFeed was more useful because it had private rooms and things.
- Mark
@AJ: Arrington knows how to use FF. this thread is evidence of that. his willingness to pimp himself out - to invite this kind of negative talk - just to promote his own interests is what is so disappointing.
- MikeAmundsen
Lazily, i'll c&p my post from TC..Yeah, this is Arrington taking a personal incident and trying REALLY hard to universalize it. And the syphilis analogy only makes this look needier and less applicable. FriendFeed aggregates conversations and connects sub-streams of the cloud more efficiently than any other current service. Once you try it, you like it. I works. It's efficient. The...
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- Thom Kennon
@Mike: Perhaps he understands that he can drum up talk, but I don't think he's been here enough to actually understand it's true power. So, yes, Arrington essentially is a FriendFeed spammer or Social Media Lout.
- AJ Kohn
Ken: it isn't my strategy and I am not profiting from it.
- Robert Scoble
"Mobs" have collapsed police states, authoritarian regimes, and given rise to countries like are's that even allow us to have this conversation today. To suppress them is like revoking the right to assemble and petition, removing the peoples voice, and is not a sign of a free and open society. Turn on the news and remember 99% of the world haven't a clue who Mike Arrington is.
- Shaun Hess
@Robert: do you think Arrington is using you to promote is own agenda?
- MikeAmundsen
Mr. Arrington is just too young. This online behavior will not subside soon. AOL Chatrooms, Usenet discussions, Compuserve bulletin boards, listserv flame wars.... The more things change, the more they stay the same. 15 years of Law and Order and broadcasting reruns on other Channels. For a Technology News guy it's pretty pathetic. What's the news? Where is the new idea?
- Birgit Pauli-Haack
Mike: he is using our mob behaviors, yes. Do I feel used? No more so than when Aaron and Steven did the same thing.
- Robert Scoble
@Robert: yep.
- MikeAmundsen
I think there are many factors working here: 1)rapidly changing community norms 2) expansion of these services from small homogeneous groups who create them 3)poor communications skills 4)poor social skills 5) a lack of inhibition due to the virtual environment.
- Francine Hardaway
from BuddyFeed
If there was ever any doubt that Arrington seeds the controversies that surround him, let this post put that doubt to rest. His goal is to incite passions because he knows that anger drives engagement more than agreement does. He's merely the Ann Coulter of the nerd world -- nothing more, nothing less.
- Sprague D
Mike knows that we cannot help ourselves, we simply must talk about his post and send him lots of hits and maybe sell a ticket or two for him.
- Mark
@Sprague: "He's merely the Anne Coulter of the nerd world..." LOL +1
- MikeAmundsen
Well put Francine!
- Bluejeanslady
from twhirl
Most of what Arrington does stings of a boy trying to look like a big boy in an adult world. Maybe when he grows up he'll be better. I think the Blue's Traveler song Hook was about him.
- Matthew DeVries
I'll probably get beat up over this but this is a huge case of the Tech Crunch pot calling the Friendfeed kettle black. I've notice that Arrington and the normal Tech Crunch crowd are really hard on people. More than once someone will ask a question that most people know the answer too and its like blood in the water. Posters come out and blast them and take delight in it. I thought that TechCrunch was trying to be a community?
- Matt Martin
Is he the Anne Coulter of tech or the Perez Hilton of tech? I'd say the later, because like Perez, he doesn't make a dime unless someone else gets hurt, he has a hissy when the camera looks back at him, he over-reacts to perceived "danger" against him.
- Matthew DeVries
@Robert: your response is far too similar to what you used AGAINST Tim O'Reilly and other members of the SUL, IMO. If you know/suspect that Arrington is using this to promote a conference that you're going to attend; a conference focused on a technology realm that you make your living off of...then of course this helps you, just like being on the SUL helps Tim O'Reilly, even if he's "not changing what he says based on it". You didn't find that answer from Tim satifying, and I feel the same way about yours.
- Ken Kennedy
Robert: Didn't you say above that, "this is about his conference. and *I will be part of it from London*" but later that "this isn't by strategy or for profit" I feel kinda duped, man. I think everyone else does/knows too, but like lemmings we'll continue to play. This is my take: http://twitter.com/Spincha...
- Chris Duffy
It is difficult to take Michael Arrington seriously as a tech analyst -- he's inflated his self-created brouhaha into a mentally disorganized blast at Friendfeed. A very emotional guy. Friendfeed is a self-organizing platform. One shouldn't complain about getting mired down in nasty exchanges that are easily avoided with unsubscriptions and blocks. Arrington's mess was self-inflicted.
- Sean McBride
Chris: I am an unpaid speaker at the TechCrunch Real Time event.
- Robert Scoble
How are Mike's passive aggressive "op-ed" blogs on TechCrunch also not a form of e-mobs? In other news: welcome to the mob *grin*
- Rene Wirtz
Tim O'Reilly doesn't pay to be on the SUL, Robert.
- Ken Kennedy
::glances and moves along::
- Geoff Schultz
And Arrington seems to read a book, declare himself an expert, and then fire off a blog post about how his "enemy" du jour is like the thing in that book. Next week we're going to hear about how Friendfeed is like the cancer killing his mentor that he visits on Tuesdays.
- Matthew DeVries
Ken: WTF?
- Robert Scoble
As a matter of fact, I think Twitter is much more suited to mob creation than FriendFeed.
- Miguel Caetano
I work on my mob behavior. I engage, but try to be civil, helpful, or educational:-) this is a learned behavior after I got my butt handed to me a few times.
- Francine Hardaway
from BuddyFeed
Yes Matthew, alot of people (myself included) read a book on something and feel we must reference it to make us appear smart. I did the same thing with a book on the black death. its all nonsense of course
- Mark
@Sean: from my POV, not only was Arrington's mess self-inflicted, it was a purposeful act on his part. as is this one.
- MikeAmundsen
Miguel: yeah, over on Twitter I saw hundreds of people saying Jeff Goldbloom was dead when he wasn't.
- Robert Scoble
arrington: @Scobleizer perhaps someday when you are sitting in your house with a police car parked out front to protect you you'll think differently.
- Mark
C'mon Robert...do you seriously not grok the similarities between this argument and your complaint about O'Reilly/SUL? This is free publicity for a conference that you're speaking at that will help make your name more notable in your area of expertise.
- Ken Kennedy
Mark: perhaps I will.
- Robert Scoble
Must have been a serious thread if the police give you personal protection
- Mark
I need to read up a little more on the other parties involved. The only person I follow of this group with any real regularity is Leo LaPorte. However, from a listeners point of view, Leo grossly over-reacted to a legitimate question ( and I love Leo's work ). Would Larry King shut down the show just because he was asked something he was apparently sensitive about? ( I realize this...
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- Sean E Brown
Remember a couple weeks back when Twitter convinced the world the California supreme court reversed their non-reversal of Prop 8?
- Matthew DeVries
No robert, what I pasted was Arringtons reply to you on twitter
- Mark
Mark: I know.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, please don't pay attention to M.A. He does not deserve it
- Luca Conti
Robert: It's all good, man. Regardless if paid or not, you knew up front what this was about and helped get the ball rolling. I don't fault you for it, but in an ironic sort of way, the lack of up front knowledge, that came out later about this being for the conf, can produce the exact kind of behavior Arrington is decrying and citing the "need" for new tools to address. It's all claptrap, but digress. I'm going outside.
- Chris Duffy
Arrington is just ticked off at the response he was getting after he attacked Leo .. yeah I really think he attacked him personally. Attacking a man's credibility and integrity is a personal attack in my opinion. Then he removed the techcrunch feed from friendfeed ..so what let him .. I agree with the other commenters..He is an attention whore plain and simple then compares Friendfeed...
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- John Blanton
from twhirl
I really think Arrington has a skewed view of FriendFeed. Most of the venom against him on FriendFeed has happened during Gillmor Gang podcasts, which were most recently running on Leo Laporte's TWiT network. For whatever reason, a large percentage of Leo's TWiT fan base hates Arrington. Not just disagree. Hate. They've also said pretty awful things about Steve Gillmor, Dave Winer, etc....
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- Mike Doeff
Notice how Mike is totally absent on this thread. He should be here defending his article, defending his analogy to syphilis and letting us all know how dumb we are for not seeing things is way. Mike obiously sees no point to having this discussion. I count 2 tweets from him on this subject.
- Roberto Bonini
@Mike Doeff If he did see the civility of FriendFeed he wouldn't have compared it to syphilis.
- John Blanton
Please note, Robert...I don't think you're being all devious or anything. I'm just pointing this out to give you another angle on the O'Reilly thing. I actually think Tim probably thought "WTF" as well. And while I DO think that both of you are being a teeny bit naive thinking that the attention doesn't affect what you say or do...that's the case with pretty much all attention. I don't...
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- Ken Kennedy
Scoble: I see what you did here. :-)
- Mark Davidson
from BuddyFeed
I'd put a witty comment here, but Arrington isn't worth the requisite brain power that would consume.
- Steven Perez
Arrington is a douch.
- Peter Kruit
Can Mike read this thread without a FF account?
- Mark
Ken: Arrington is on the Suggested User List and he did not disclose that. Jason Calacanis says that is worth $250,000. I guarantee you that speaking at a conference won't get you $250,000 worth of followers.
- Robert Scoble
Anybody remember Usenet newsgroups? They still exist, and lots o' tech people still use them (i still answer questions there). There have been some remarkable flame wars there, and they are all threaded. I don't see how different that is from FF except FF has a prettier interface.
- RobinDotNet
Mark: yes
- Robert Scoble
Peter: so are you.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Thank you ;) Don't get me wrong. We also need people like that. They make for interesting discussions.
- Peter Kruit
Hah! Arrington removed my comment about him not disclosing that he is on Twitter's Suggested User list.
- Robert Scoble
Lets give 1 sec to the Arrington point at his last tweets ,cant we have some kind of control on the stream ?cant FF add better moderation tools ?
- Johni Fisher
Robert: You're stirring the pot yourself and why? Because Arrington comapred FF to Syphilis? I have nothing against a discussion about the issue at hand but you're lead-in to this was a bit on the point of the article.. It's just a session of Arrignton bashing, replace the keyboards with pitchforks and you're all on your was the TC headquarters to string up the guy.
- Sean E Brown
"on your way" rather
- Sean E Brown
And again I am comment on a Scoble thread, but to misquote Cassius " The fault, dear Friends, is not in Scoble or Arrington But in ourselves, that we are underlings."
- Kim Landwehr
oh I forgot IMHO
- Sean E Brown
Sean: you are right.
- Robert Scoble
Sean: the thing is I have seen mob suppression and I don't like it one bit.
- Robert Scoble
And I have had my car damaged and life threatened by a mob after the 49ers won the Super Bowl one year.
- Robert Scoble
Ah, the weekend dust-up. ;-)
- Chris Baskind
@Robert: gotcha. I think I understand where you're coming from. I disagree, but it's no big deal.
- Ken Kennedy
Robert: but who is suppressing it? An article isn't going to to stop mobs, not all mobs are good mobs (lol). I suppose we all have our quirks that get us up in arms, I am in no way innocent of that.
- Sean E Brown
I declare the Dead Horse to be Beaten sufficiently.
- Sean E Brown
@Johni Fisher: FriendFeed is a social network, not a community or a forum with administrators and the like. But I reckon that nested conversations could be useful ;-)
- Miguel Caetano
This inspired me to listen to the Mob Rules album by Black Sabbath :D
- Per
It's interesting to me that the very thing Arrington talks about happens here. Where did good taste and treating other people with respect get off the track? I mean seriously...have you looked at how many people are on this thread making nasty comments about Arrington? He isn't the only one that gets that treatment, we all do if we state our opinions publicly. Now, I'm not against...
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- Sheryl
Sheryl: yes, this is bloodsport. Same thing happens at baseball stadiums every day.
- Robert Scoble
If your able to get syphallus from FriendFeed then I'm clearly using it wrong
- Davis Freeberg
Sheryl: The nasty talk against Arrington is earned. Arrington frequently slams FriendFeed (which get under Robert Scoble's skin and compels him to do these sorts of posts, but that's another topic) and then cries whenever (a) no one pays him any attention or (b) people talk nasty about him.
- Steven Perez
Robert: I can't take things that seriously. Life is to be lived not destroyed. Why don't we talk about the value of the mob? Why don't we talk about how amazing social networks can be?
- Sheryl
Steven: I disagree with you :) That Arrington has an opinion and states it no more gives you or I a right to tear his person apart than my simply waking up every day. Argue against his opinion but name calling has no benefits.
- Sheryl
Sheryl: You're entitled to your viewpoint, but I've been here long enough to see how Arrington operates. And nothing I've seen from him lately has changed that opinion. He deserves every bit of scorn he gets, because he delights in these sort of poop fights.
- Steven Perez
Here are some features that might slow down mob-like participation: 1) move the comment link to after the last comment, rather than right under the item, to encourage reading the previous comments before commenting. 2) once a threshold has been reached, remove the comment link entirely, so you have to go to the item page (which displays all comments) before commenting, to discourage formation of instant pile-ons from within the live stream.
- Michael R. Bernstein
Steven: You don't have to change your opinion of Arrington. At no time have I suggested you aren't entitled to your opinion. But what benefit for you is there in calling him names? We all have opinions others disagree with. You didn't call me names and yet for all you know I'm a horrible person (I'm not) I think the world is better for opinions and different thoughts. It stretches us to...
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- Sheryl
Mike comparing FF to syphilis is pure, shameless analogy abuse. But say what you will about Mike, his arguments are interesting, and I do read them. And if anyone on this thread wants to organize a torch and pitchfork mob against him, let me be the first to say I've got a billion more interesting and important things to occupy my time.
- James Hernandez
Sheryl: I said it Zee's thread and I'll say it here - it's another Arrington poop fight. He throws enough of it on the wall to see what sticks, gets Robert Scoble riled up, and a mess of blog posts and forum fights ensue. SOP for Arrington. Meanwhile, he reaps the benefits of notoriety and links back to his site, all without ever setting foot in here, because we're all going over there to see what he wrote.
- Steven Perez
Neither of these are particularly innovative, BTW. I can suggest reading Derek Powazek's excellent book 'Design for Community':http://www.amazon.com/exec...
- Michael R. Bernstein
I know Arrington sometimes smears himself with blood and tosses himself into the feeding frenzy. I have no problem attacking his opinions when I disagree. Or attacking his ego when it's out there. I do find myself more and more put off by people who make every attack personal. It goes to excess. And I hate the specious argument that "I've seen him blah blah blah" and he deserves it....
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- Ken Camp
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it go something like this: 1. Arrington dislikes Scoble. 2. Scoble likes FriendFeed. 3. Therefore, Arrington dislikes FriendFeed.
- Stephen Mack
Steven: I would only ask this, who is inciting who if Arrington squawks and people fluff their feathers? I don't know Mike Arrington, I know who he is and I have read enough to know he frequently says things that are inflammatory, but I don't call him names publicly. Where is the value in that? Can someone show me why that is useful because if you can, I may change my tune, though it's highly unlikely! ;-)
- Sheryl
Stephen: I don't think Arrington dislikes me.
- Robert Scoble
it's all entertainment in the end :D
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Ken: ;-) Dork! LOL (I can call Ken names cause he's my SO) hehe
- Sheryl
And at the risk of encouraging flames in my direction, I pretty much agree with Arrington's post. I agree with him about 10-15% of the time.
- Ken Camp
Sheryl: I may be a dork, but I'm your dork. And I only engage in this petty crap to try to find some intelligence among the noise. Like always, there's some here. Filtering the noise within a thread isn't easy. I know Robert loves FF filtering, but this is an example of when NOTHING but the filtering can find any value.
- Ken Camp
Ken: even filtering can't help some threads! :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert: shall I bop him on the head? hehe
- Sheryl
Robert: Agreed. There really needs to be a way to tag trash threads to be expunged. Terrible that this drivel will exist forever.
- Ken Camp
Ken: only if you search for it will it matter for long.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: True but wasting arguably infinite disk space to store it forever is still waste. I don't like waste in general.
- Ken Camp
Sheryl -- what kind of response do you think Arrington anticipated when he compared Friendfeed to syphillis -- *at length* (in case we missed the point)? Describing him as a jackass strikes me as a measured and rational response. But he is best ignored, to be sure.
- Sean McBride
Sheryl: there's a small bit of problem with your logic. By your logic, everything that Ann Coulter (thanks, Sprague D) says is not deserving of scorn, either.
- Steven Perez
Steven I don't say it's wrong to be scornful. I do still think it's wrong to call names. It feels wrong to me to validate that in any way. Defending position is a whole other thing. To enter the fray and retaliate has no good consequence.
- Sheryl
Steven: Scorn for stupid ideas is different than personal attacks. Although comparing Arrington to Coulter is an interesting and entertaining thought. ;-)
- Ken Camp
Sean: I don't think it matters what Arrington's goal was. In the end, even if Arrington calls FF names, to do so in return accomplishes what?
- Sheryl
Sean: If we take the passion and emotion out of the argument, Arrington's comparison to how syphillis evolved to survive, to the FF mob power, I think there's some good analogy inside there. Sure it's ugly, but I wouldn't say it's inaccurate. How many mobs have we seen called into play in the past few weeks over some perceived wrong. Yesterday it was someone's AT&T bill and the open...
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- Ken Camp
On that note, I am off for a break, out to run errands, and finished with this particular thread. Have a good afternoon all.
- Ken Camp
Sheryl -- sometimes it is healthy to call out a jackass as a jackass, and then move on to more productive topics. It puts a period on the nonsense. In general I agree with you: the more civil the conversation, the better.
- Sean McBride
This whole thing reminds me of the "How to tell someone they sounded racist video" http://www.youtube.com/watch... I think we can all learn something from that video. Keep to the subject, instead of calling names and generalizing from what a person did. If you want a good discussion on this subject don't call people names. Instead of wasting time in here where M.A says he...
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- Rasmus Lauridsen
Because, at the end of the day, Arrington is against mob mentality ... unless he can direct the mob's direction.
- Steven Perez
The real problem with herd mentality is that once understood, it can be effectively deployed to link bait, generate PR in the form of online discussions, and to promote social media sites and/or events, without people even being aware of it.
- Mark Davidson
I'm particularly baffled - better yet - amused by how the media gurus quickly turn into poor, weeping poopflinging angry things once they find themselves prodded by the pointy end of a mass of people (which they then call "a mob" elegantly skipping the "lynch" part). Groupthink - yes, sometimes - even herd mentality - but this has all to do with how people are, and nothing with technology, so I really don't get the hate on FF (Syphilis? gimme a f-in' break!).
- dario
also: the guy is obviously oblivious of the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory and has no clue about what goes on in "the mainstream", say on Reddit, /. or that cesspool that are youtube comments. FF is pretty much a small, happy place with tea, pastries and fancy embroidered cushions compared to those.
- dario
Dude, TC deleted my (constructively thoughtful albeit critical) comment in the article thread --- and it keeps eating my attempts to repost. wtf?!...
- Thom Kennon
Thom: Arrington did the same thing to me. Welcome to the mob.
- Robert Scoble
Ken Camp - I agree completely with your post - this whole thread went from a discussion on Mobfeed and into something similar to a 1990 BBS rant
- Kathleen Forden
This is really getting to be ridiculous. Arrington admits that people can be nasty at Twitter and other places, but says FriendFeed is worse, basically because all comments can be seen in one place. Blame FF? Why don't we start with blaming TechCrunch, because a lot of people started out disliking him due to what he writes there. I suspect that if Arrington didn't delete so much of what was posted there, we'd see a REAL mob.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Dario: If Arrington's blog post heightened your emotional state, then his mission was accomplished. If you clicked the link to Arrington's blog, then his mission was accomplished. If you commented on Arrington's blog, then his mission was accomplished. If Robert Scoble started a thread on FriendFeed about Arrington's blog post, then his mission was accomplished. If we are still...
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- Mark Davidson
Mark: that was my point, actually (sorry it didn't come through too well) - basically if you go prodding a hive with a stick sometimes you get stung - it doesn't reflect too well on you if you get all uppity afterwards. So, I agree with you 100% on the manipulative part.
- dario
The same thing happens on Digg, and it's been around for years. It's not a problem with the service(s), it's a cultural problem. We've all been desensitized to some level or another, some extremely.
- Blake
Dario: Don't feel bad. I got caught up in it too. It's human behavior. As human beings, we respond to stimuli. When executed properly, we just can't help ourselves. Our emotions get stirred, we take action in the form of a response, we become engaged because we've invested emotional energy, we talk amongst ourselves, etc. Politicians, public speakers, bloggers, television and radio...
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- Mark Davidson
What a bunch of echo chamber nonsense.
- Jason Nunnelley
I can't disagree with that Jason....... Except, it's only an echo chamber when it's good/self aggrandizing. When it's ugly and destructive like this, I think the more proper term is devouring our own young, but the sentiment is right on.
- Matthew DeVries
Skipping past the other discussion that's already happened on Arrington's post (I'll catch up in a minute), I just want to say that TechCrunch has officially joined my list of sites I won't visit anymore. Great job alienating a large group of readers, Mike.
- Jason Huebel
Matthew, I just expanded my opinion on Mike's post (linked by Scoble). I think it's calculated drama. Either that or really, really silly. I'm giving everyone the benefit of doubt here and assigning more intelligence than the latter opinion would allow.
- Jason Nunnelley
Why would anyone take anything that Arrington writes seriously after his complete bullshit stories about Last.fm - which had real, economic consequences for the company, and which are still being repeated as if they were true by people around the web? He's perfectly happy to whip up the mob when it suits him, but when it bites him back he suddenly becomes Mr Socially Concerned.
- Ian Betteridge
How many times was Arrington's name mentioned in this post, thus reinforcing his brand through repetition? How many people reading his name were in an emotionally heightened state? Hmmm. lol.
- Mark Davidson
When someone comes into your house and poops on your coffee table, it's a bit difficult to look at it rationally and ask what the merits of such an act was.
- Steven Perez
"It was windy in here, so I needed to weigh the papers down"
- Matthew DeVries
He actually removed my comment. No kidding. I didn't wish him ill, suggest he should died or anything of that nature. I just made a coherent and short comment about his tactic with as bland a set of language as possible. Wimp.
- Jason Nunnelley
THIS is why i fucking hate FF. "Read his anti-FriendFeed rant here" WHERE? damn it, friend feed always makes a monkey out of me. where's arrington's rant? i dunno. i'll seach for arrington's account and see if i can find it. i'll prolly be back in five minutes to say "oh, i'm so stupid... i found it at [INSERT FUCKING URL HERE]" thanks for exposing my FF ineptitude, Scoble.
- Mark Hartwell
Mark: it's the first comment on this thread. It's a link. Then come back here to read the 200 comments.
- Robert Scoble
Mark, what are you talking about? It's right there.
- Matthew DeVries
Mark: I've used this device hundreds of times. Most people figure it out pretty quickly.
- Robert Scoble
So he just wants to delete all counter comments? How very Supreme Leader of him....
- Matthew DeVries
He hasn't deleted mine yet
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Comment removal is standard practice at TechCrunch, and it really doesn't matter if the comments are polite. He'll leave a few counter-comments in (enough so it's not obvious he's blocking counter-opinions) and delete the rest. Perhaps his lack of control of the conversation is why he doesn't like FriendFeed much.
- Ian Betteridge
All I said was that he should thank Scoble for the link, but he shouldn't be surprised if these tactics result in trollish drama queens following his work only to bring a teen girl styled smack down to his next slumber party. It wasn't even that caustic, definitely not "mob" language.
- Jason Nunnelley
Matthew: he's probably deleting all comments he perceives as being from the "MobFeed." I think it's funny. Mike once told me he's an entertainer, and this is evidence of that.
- Robert Scoble
aha http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... got it ... second comment actually. i agree with jason calicanis ... you need a freaking masters degree to work friend feed. thanks, Robert, BTW .. the url gets shortened, so even though the title of the article is in that URL, one doesn't see it when scanning the comments.
- Mark Hartwell
Mark: no, it's the first comment. The first line are people who clicked "like" on this item.
- Robert Scoble
The problem, though, is that Arrington is an "entertainer" with the power to seriously hurt companies and careers in the web industry. And he does it, too.
- Ian Betteridge
Mark - Ff's interface is about as simple as it gets.... *rollseyes*
- Matthew DeVries
So, he deletes my comment about participating in adult conversation and leaves the guy's comment that calls him a douche? Mature. I'm starting to withdraw my prior benefit of doubt.
- Jason Nunnelley
Ian: he only can hurt you if you let him. If your marketing campaign relies on TechCrunch then your marketing campaign is bad and needs a major rethink. I've had Valleywag and Techcrunch aimed at me before and it never hurts.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - In the same way that Andy Kaufman was an "entertainer"?
- Matthew DeVries
To be totally fair, i dont think it is that bad. We have had quite a few articles on Techcrunch and on on a whole they seem to be a nice bunch, very accomodating and understanding.
- Paul Rawlings
Although it is unpleasant to go through.
- Robert Scoble
I thought it was quite a funny read, I don't think I can take it seriously... it is almost as if someone spat in his face or something.
- Paul Kinlan
Robert, he can't hurt me - but think of Last.fm, whose reputation was hurt and which lost subscribers because of a completely false series of articles that Arrington posted. And he's never really acknowledged that he got it totally wrong, preferring to hint that "there's no smoke without fire". That's what I mean about serious damage. He has the power of mainstream media, without the vaguest notion of a conscience.
- Ian Betteridge
FF interface: simple? perhaps. Intuitive? not so much. The FF fail is strong in me. (and scoble was right, the url IS in the first comment) what looked to me like the first comment was just a list of "likes" that's a Digg concept, right?
- Mark Hartwell
Ian: if Last.fm has value it will cruise right through a wrongful attack. I'm not saying it's right, or pleasant.
- Robert Scoble
Mark, go away, you're just making things up now..... It's simple, intuitive, and elegant. You're just not very bright. The fact you can't suss it out is a reflection on you, not the site.
- Matthew DeVries
Yeah, Last.fm will survive - think of the man-hours it took dealing with the mess that Arrington created. A lot of time and effort went into cleaning up a mess that Arrington gleefully made. And again, no acknowledgement from him that he was in the wrong.
- Ian Betteridge
Matthew: stay nice. It's not that easy sometimes for newbies.
- Robert Scoble
Or English isn't your first language. If that is the case, then yes, it can confuse, I apologize.
- Matthew DeVries
Matt, your comment on Arrington's post is funny dude. I give it ten minutes :)
- Jason Nunnelley
I just read this entire post. I'm so sorry I wasted my time. Maybe we should ban the use of cell phones and IM just in case. Like FriendFeed, they also make it too easy to talk to people.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
I'm not trying to show him up with it. Just a personal experiment for myself (my post on the TC thread)
- Matthew DeVries
This Last.fm thing, this is what drives my Perez Hilton comparison. He got to create a hurt, damage something, and while Last.fm will probably whether it, nothing bounces back to TC. In fact, it grew their market, and put more money in Arrington's pocket.
- Matthew DeVries
on such a beautiful sunday, how on earth could anybody be paying attention to arrington's opinion - he is a self serving dolt...
- mike "glemak" dunn
ok, i've read arrington's post. and most of this thread. the syphilis analogy was probably just something that mike has been wanting to paste and share since he read that book. the laporte / arrington "war" lasted all of 10 minutes. what that exchange DID expose was a lot of pent up anti-arrington hate. why do so many people think arrington is an asshole? simple, he IS an asshole. if i...
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- Mark Hartwell
ok Robert If you are going to remove mike's comment couldn't you at least remove my reply to him also? Now it stands out like a sore thumb of dumbness in a sea of irrelevance. :-P
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Well he was right about the Mob! I'd delete my FF account but what's the point? For delivery of content its great, but for hanging out, I don't have the skill or patience to go toe to toe with a Mob of spoiled intellectuals.
- ZuDfunck
Rasmus I haven't removed any replies on this thread!
- Robert Scoble
yay then he removed it himself. Mission accomplished :-)
- Rasmus Lauridsen
who cares.
- Stalyn☂
"...it [friendfeed] will be forced to evolve to something less dangerous or it’ll destroy itself." At the risk of inciting an insanely dangerous mob, what a freakin drama queen.
- Christopher A Carr
Glad to know you know me so well @Zudfunck, So I'm a "spoiled intellectual" from California... Not a 29 year old college dropout living in Randers, Denmark? Wow you know me so well almost better than I know myself. Thanks for the generalization, it totally helped my mood :-P
- Rasmus Lauridsen
What an odd post - I like Arrington, but it's posts like this that make him come off as a bully. The mob boss?
- Jesse Stay
Robert: "Nice mob you got here" ~ Kevin Costner in Wyatt Earp
- Sean E Brown
I think Mike is paranoid one of those startups he loves to put in the deadpool want HIM in the deadpool :p
- Mark
A salad? You see this is the Kevin Rose effect. All the young kids up and coming in tech are all skinny, and they rock climb, and drink fashionable teas from around the world. No more fat techies with these guys in charge. Crap.
- Mark
@mark dammit I need to work out then, thanks for not sending me that memo before now! :-P
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Lost me when he got to the pustules part.
- Oldengrey (Jay)
from fftogo
Mike Arrington's is not on the global radar, so his rant is useless. There are major social media shifts in developing countries, violent regime crack-downs, and tech developments leading human dignity campaigns.
- E-Advocate Network
Yawn, change a few words and it could be used by any class with power, religious, political. IE. Admin blog power, Green Dam, RIAA, Tehran, Bush. Read/Write culture is showing tremendous growth. There is no one person, power, group or nation that can change any of it. Call it Mob call it anything you want, but for 99.99999999999% of the population. His rant is a YAWN. It will change nothing and have no effect not now or ever. There is nothing to fear here move on.
- Robert Higgins
The biggest problem with Mike Arrington and MG Siegler's arguments is they only seeing this problem because of their position. I've said some pretty fierce, opinionated things on FriendFeed, Twitter, and elsewhere, but I'm not fearing for my life. Nor would I in the near future. Even though we're not anonymous on FriendFeed or Twitter, it doesn't matter for most because we're anonymous enough to where enough people are going to care enough to do something to us.
- Jared Mehle
+1 SpragueD, the difference being Ann Coulter has a pair of *cojones.* she wouldn't need months of seclusion and grief counseling after someone spat on her.
- Karim
Karim: I am no longer speaking at any TechCrunch event, according to an email I just received. Just so we can clear that part up of the conversation above.
- Robert Scoble
What a bone head move by TC.
- Mark
Sorry, I don't join mobs.
- xero
Wait. MA's issue is with Ff and it's people, not with Scobleizer. Why would he ban you Robert, and not us? You can't speak at TC, but the Ff mob is still welcome?
- Matthew DeVries
Matthew: I don't know, but he clearly was not happy with something I said above.
- Robert Scoble
Matthew: Mike considers Robert the leader of the FF movement for some odd reason. Cult leader. He evangelises the service so he must be the one getting people to threaten Mike, right.
- Mark
He is not even on any advisory boards or consulted on feature rollouts......IIRC Ff is ran buy Paul and some other dude.
- Matthew DeVries
I do see quite a few posts defending, or at least clarifying for the positive things about Arrington....*sigh*
- Matthew DeVries
Matthew: it might have been a comment he deleted over on TechCrunch too. I don't know. I'll talk with him when he's calmer and see what got him to use that stick on my legs.
- Robert Scoble
It's getting to the point that Wil Harris and Martin Sargent are the only TWiT panelists that will appear together. (hyperbole alert)
- Matthew DeVries
Does Wil Harris have a Ff?
- Matthew DeVries
Don't think so. We have work to do to get alot of the big twitter users over here.
- Mark
Friendfeed is ours. We own it, not the celebs who own twitter more and more :/ FF is for the geeks.
- Mark
The people I'd love to see over here, Scott @extralife Johnson, and Kevin Smith.
- Matthew DeVries
@MDV, love to see Scott Johnson here. I think he could benefit from the more media-rich capabilities of FF. Also wouldn't mind seeing Wil Wheaton here, too.
- Jason Huebel
@Jason: http://friendfeed.com/wilw
- MikeAmundsen
Robert... he *disinvited* you to London? lol. petty. perhaps not unexpected though, given his penchant for drama. http://dramabutton.com in the movies they call it a "plot point."
- Karim
Send him one of these, Robert: http://saydrah.files.wordpress.com/2008...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Karim: I'm going to London, just not going to speak at any TechCrunch event I guess. I'm going as part of http://www.travelinggeeks.com
- Robert Scoble
No, he got your London credentials pulled. "We got a burn notice on you, you're black listed"
- Matthew DeVries
©Scoble, you said, "...he only can hurt you if you let him. If your marketing campaign relies on TechCrunch then your marketing campaign is bad and needs a major rethink." According to a rep from a huge tech corporation, even an unknown blogger can damage a company's ability to sell a product. When I asked for permission to review a new device, the response I received conveyed this warning. I never wrote the review. I'm not sure I ever wrote any others.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
MiniMage: yes, any random person can hurt you, but only if that pain resonates with others. If you have a great product or service, it will go on. Look at Apple.
- Robert Scoble
Matthew: where did you read that?
- Robert Scoble
Matthew: Arrington isn't in charge of http://www.travelinggeeks.com so he can't pull my ticket from London. He can, however, keep me out of TechCrunch events.
- Robert Scoble
I'll read this thread, but why is Mike angry with you, Robert?
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: I don't know. I guess he feels I turned the mob against him. Or something I did over on his blog bugged him (he deleted a comment where I wondered whether his attacks on FriendFeed were driven by his inclusion on the Twitter Suggested User List, which delivered to him $250,000 of value and that he never discloses when he talks about social networking). Funny if it's that because it's pretty much the same thing that he did to Leo Laporte that pissed off Leo so much.
- Robert Scoble
I didn't Robert, I was quoting the opening of Burn Notice eps.
- Matthew DeVries
from fftogo
Yeah, I was just thinking that's what Leo should have shot back with, and I was just thinking the same thing about the SUL and how dramatically that's a bigger deal to affect their coverage of Twitter than Leo's getting a pre for a week. I'll try to start being just positive like you suggested earlier, but it makes me wonder if TechCrunch got as many @replies attacking them as Mike...
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- Stephen Pickering
I guess I'm agnostic on this issue. I do feel, however, that when there's repeatedly smoke, there must be something that's overheating pretty damned often. I mean, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh always blame "the receiver" if they disagree with anything "the annointed" have posited. (No, I'm not directly comparing Michael A. to those guys, but if he's claiming to be misinterpreted by so many so often, something doesn't add up. Isn't he a "professional" in communications, after all? Just sayin...
- Mark "DerBingle" J
I thought friendfeed was the "coolest app nobody uses"... now we're the mob ;) guess we're moving up in the world guys.
- Frankie Warren
lol Matthew -- no, the "Burn Notice" intro goes like this: http://www.hulu.com/watch... My name is Robert Scoble. I used to be a social media expert. Until... [VOICE ON PHONE: "Arrington put out a burn notice on you. You're blacklisted."]
- Karim
"A former Cable TV host who used to inform on you to the FBI: [You know Web 2.0 bloggers, a bunch of BITCHY little girls]"
- Matthew DeVries
LEAVE MIKE ARRINGTON ALONE!!! *cries*
- Alejandro
If this has already been posted, I apologize, but the bad side of a mob can be seen here: http://hashtags.org/tag... When a twitter / ff user says he's going to commit suicide and a bunch of people encourage him to do so.... Not a good example of the "mob."
- Ben Hanten
Ben: so, a bunch of Twitter users flash a stupid hashtag, it shows up here on FF as being ported from Twitter (http://friendfeed.com/search... - note the point of origin and how many users here actually used that tag), and somehow that's the mob that Arrington is talking about?
- Steven Perez
I agree with Mike too, except for the syphilis comparison (could have used a better analogy).. Emotions + Real-Time communication with the rest of the world can blow matters out of proportions very quickly, and especially so when not everyone reads all 286++ comments..
- Winston Teo
::Glances over and walks on by....again::
- Geoff Schultz
Winston: the problem I have with is with the equating "social media" with "FriendFeed", Seriously, this place is worse than, say, 4chan? Or Digg? Or Stormfront? Really?
- Steven Perez
Because Arrington didn't note this as a general problem. He specifically targeted FriendFeed over some of the worst social media sites out there. For that reason alone, his article is laughable.
- Steven Perez
@steven Yup, I would say it's not only about FF. But his "theory" makes sense in a general way, IMO.
- Winston Teo
Winston - I see you're new to Arrington's "Victim Tool" it's one of most used and most skillfully wielded. It's a shame that there isn't penalties for diving in tech, like there is in hockey.
- Matthew DeVries
Well, welcome to 1997, Winston. Because "mob mentality" has manifested itself since comic book nerds were flaming each other on USENET over whether Hal Jordan or Kyle Rainer was the better Green Lantern. If general assholery was the issue, then not only did Arrington's point hit wildly off the mark, it didn't even land on the same planet. I've been here for a year, and while people do...
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- Steven Perez
Not enough page hits, or not enough fans to drown out the dissenting voices. Arrington et al can hide in their imaginary utopian internet hangouts (as if they exist) and shut out everyone who dares to suggest they're wrong, but they need to stop attacking FriendFeed. It's not the cesspool they pretend it is.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
My take is that Arrington doesn't like FF because he can't control what goes on here or what is said about him here. He can't delete the comments on threads (unless they are his own), like he can on his own web site.
- Jeff P. Henderson
@Clark heck, "threads" on Twitter are so disorganized that you can barely call them that. *grin* (I realize some of the desktop apps make them easier to review, but still.)
- Ken Kennedy
Mr. Arrington has a good point there: aggregating opinions and discussion indeed create online mob. We just saw it in many real examples.
- darwin|1q84
it is always easier to lead a mob than a person.
- darwin|1q84
I concur, darwin|1q84, especially when no one moment can be the whole truth. Mobs form quickly and often without the *whole* story. real-time, while useful in many contexts as Louis pointed out, can lead to a quick-time mob mentality that gets out of control fast. Great discussion. Brings up a lot of things.
- chad calease
Forums can be every bit as nasty as FF.
- Christopher A Carr
It has nothing to do with the medium it has everything to do with people.
- Geoff Schultz
Surprise surprise, Arrington deleted my comment on his thread. As I said above, he really doesn't like it if people disagree with him in "his own territory", does he?
- Ian Betteridge
If this thread is too much to read through, just parse the comments for the word 'control' Those 7 items explain why Arrington can't handle FriendFeed. nuf said.
- Christopher Harley
I'm not sure where Mike Arrington was back in the late 90's, but I was smack dab in the middle of a vibrant CNN online community where discussions happened in real time with real names and yeah, there were mobs around certain issues. Anything to do with the Middle East, or Bill Clinton was guaranteed to be a 24/7 shift for the elves who scrubbed the spam and the flames. This isn't new. It's been around since the cave man days. It's only a question of how it's manifest.
- Karoli
LOL of my comments over there he removed the one where I argued against Sean MacDhai for calling Michael a Douche. Guess he just wants to continue being the victim. I actually liked MA's stuff and enjoyed the turds he threw out sometimes. But deleting comments supporting him so he can just look more like a victim is low... Guess I'm gone from there.. His comment moderation makes it impossible to carry on a conversation, self serving as it is...
- Rasmus Lauridsen
the bully pulpit worked. against the bully.
- Rick Cogley
I think it's time to give him the only response I deem to be effective - removing techcrunch from my feed lists. Bye bye, MA. You won't miss me, but I'm certainly not going to miss you and all the drama.
- Adrian Scicluna
Having stepped back and thought about it, I think that there's a serious point struggling to get out of Arrington's post. He's choosing to blame tools like FriendFeed for people being vitriolic, but real-time tools - like any tool - don't make people do anything. People *choose* to be vitriolic: it's part of their make up, their culture, their approach to life. The problem that I have...
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- Ian Betteridge
The fact that Mike is deleting comments that don't suit his needs and banned Robert S from Tech crunch events tends to prove my suspicion, and this is about control. He doesn't control the Ff conversation and that's what bothers him.
- Kim Landwehr
from BuddyFeed
@Kim And also the reason he chose to pull out from FF in the first place!
- Adrian Scicluna
It strikes me that Friendfeed tends to fuel invective out of partisanship or loyalty because threads like this one and the TWIT episode thread attract groupies. The bile comes from what the spewers must see as the most noble of motives -- sticking up for their Friend.
- Amyloo
the best analogy for friendfeed he could come up with was syphilis? Yeah that's not link bait. I'm sure the guys at friendfeed are just thrilled with Mike today.
- timepilot
I think Mike got used to shouting fire in a theater and he is now upset that the theater goers are organized and calling him on it. give me a break
- timepilot
Discussion of these questions is welcome with the understanding that the dialogue is invigorating.
- Mike Chelen
I would think Arrington's credibility is in question when bashing FF (or other social networks) when he is on Twitterr's SUL. No?
- Kevin Whalen
from email
That actually is a good and somewhat novel point in all of this Kevin.
- Matthew DeVries
Kevin: the praise for twitter is that it is less effective for communication, friendfeed should be thankful for the nice compliment ;)
- Mike Chelen
Andrew Terry: the post actually is much more insightful if taken to apply more generally, however it does single out friendfeed as somehow qualitatively worse than blogs or twitter :D
- Mike Chelen
It is rather silly that FF's supposed Achilles heel is that it's too effective at bringing crowds together. Mike's unspoken counterpoint benefit to Twitter is that megaphone-style broadcasting is still possible without too much interruption from the public.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
I prefer twitter because individuals are individuals on twitter and there is nothing meaningful to say in thirty seconds in a flame war or a thread with 322 replies
- Michele Costabile
Michele, you just have to go up 1 to find one, Daniel's post was probably the most meaningful thing said in this thread, it was post 320. Need another, go up 6 to Kevin Whalen. There's plenty of well thought out things still to be said on this subject, even if it's this big.
- Matthew DeVries
We could certainly use some threading options in the comments UI, maybe even some upvoting and other dynamic resorting. These big threads tend to buckle under their own weight.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
*shudder* no voting or per comment liking. Then we do become Digg. There's nothing wrong long with long tracts of prose. It requires participants to be literate and skilled readers, and pushes away the fools. If it needs distilling, do it second hand with blog posts.
- Matthew DeVries
Daniel, I like time sequencing on big threads. I'd like to see simpler respond identifiers so when someone says "Jason," I know which of us billion or so Jasons he's talking to. I much prefer this to seeing comments floating around based on up and down votes.
- Jason Nunnelley
I did throw in the qualifier "optional" to my feature suggestion. I guess y'all's vote cancels out mine :P (http://www.theonion.com/content...)
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Daniel, welcome to the democratic process. Facts and logic need not participate ;)
- Jason Nunnelley
Michele: individuals can be seen clearly in friendfeed once familiar with the interface, and followed or unfollowed similar to twitter
- Mike Chelen
Guys, Mike should remove the post from Techcrunch or else we will start a group to protest against him
- Michael_techie
Guys, please join this group http://friendfeed.com/hate-mi... to protest against Michael Arrington
- Michael_techie
You created a group called "Hate Mike Arrington?" Wow.
- Mark
Michael_techie - That was a stupid room to make, and it's not funny, or clever, or ironic. You're probably a psuedonym for Arrington trying to create a problem that doesn't exist.
- Matthew DeVries
Yep, we should show how big is Friendfeed
- Michael_techie
Um, no.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Sorry @Michael_techie that's a fail. I think its time to move on and think about more positive stuff. It's 22 hours since @scobleizer started this thread, its like years in realtime web. Seas have already flowed under the proverbial bridge on this one.
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Yes, you won't see threads like this any more. Scoble wants more positive threads and is trying to make up with Mike Arrington who has denounced their friendship after several years.
- Mark
Daniel's post was an appropriate end for it. For me anyway. But there's no way to silence the thread without deleting all my posts and hiding it. That's a brokeness of Ff. It will keep popping in my notifier and my discussions filter even if I hide it.
- Matthew DeVries
@Matthew hey we should pile up this conversation in separate room
- Michael_techie
As an aside, anyone know if Michael_techie has ever mattered? Can I block him without consequence?
- Matthew DeVries
@matthew Are you promoting Michael arrington
- Michael_techie
As a FF user, It really hurts when some one call us as mob
- Michael_techie
Yeah, He's a flawed guy like us all, and I've always said he never should have taken an ounce of flame the second Leo forgave him, and the community is better with him in it. I wish he hadn't left Ff. But he is wrong about some things. Many things. Like all of us.
- Matthew DeVries
@matthew, He shouldn't call the whole FF users as mob, coz he got some hatred messages
- Michael_techie
Black Sabbath said it best: When you listen to fools, the mob rules.
- Andy Dustman
Twitter poll: Other than craigslist, how would you find an apartment to rent?
really depends on the location - sorry replying here even tho you noted a poll on twitter.
- Allen Stern
Newspaper or driving around town or friends. Craigslist isn't really good on my city
- Chris Heath
of the three apartments I've rented in the Bay Area none was through Craigslist. Used a now-defunct rental site for one, SFGate for another, and driving around the neighborhood looking for "For Rent" signs for the 3rd.
- Rachel Luxemburg
I've found the best places just by asking friends and being persistent about following up. Also, you can look for buildings that either look vacant, are for sale or have for rent signs, of course. Sometimes you can pre-empt the officially announced rental by contacting the owner of a building in transition to see if they might be renting in the future. I'm posting on FF—hope you're reading this.:-)
- Cathryn Hrudicka
MySpace Exec Gets $500K to Sit at Home While 300 Laid Off - http://valleywag.gawker.com/5301201...
Living large: MySpace Exec Gets $500K to Sit at Home While 300 Laid Off http://bit.ly/3jrm1 #feedly
- Michael Metz
Command and control seems to be back. the idea is that people do what you tell them to do, and if they don’t, you yell at them until they do
Michael Metz liked this
oh yeah?
- Michael Metz
I wonder if Twitter would let the users elect a few people to the Suggested Users List. Just a thought.
Sam Grover, Barty, Sheryl and Shivanand Velmurugan liked this
So make it a popularity contest?
- Jesse Stay
I think we'd have the same results
- andy brudtkuhl
and that would make it better becoz?!
- Shivanand Velmurugan
Can't a follow be considered a vote?
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
They're front-page advertisements, currently given away. I'd wager a trivial sum (once) on how long before they're sold.
- George Frink
I wonder what it would fetch at auction?
- davehollis
It already is a sort of popularity contest. Twitter has determined who the popular kids are and given them priority. I don't think a vote would change it. The reality is, those on the list have more followers, more clout, whatever you want to call it, and for the rest, they don't count. Personally...I think it would be great to see a randomized system with authenticated users on that list.
- Sheryl
Yup.
- Dave Winer
People who sign up for Twitter, post once, then never return - http://www.slate.com/id...
Nicholas James, Nicholas Martini, Daniel Rowley and 10 other people liked this
Please, don't mention this study again : .They took 300 000 random twitter accounts! With the "oprah" hype(and even before that!), many people suscribed to twitter without understanding "how it worked". Moreover, to defined the gender of the twitter population, they matched the twitter "names" with a list of strongly gender names. You know, like "Rebecca2930", or "JulietInLoveWithYou" yeah, you know, the twitter spammer accounts we can't get rid of.
- Zackatoustra
I think you're thinking of a different article, Z.
- Ken Sheppardson
Drive-by tweeting
- Jemm
My apologies : indeed I stopped when I read "After examining some 300,000 Twitter accounts, a Harvard Business School professor reported last week that 10 percent of the service's users account for more than 90 percent of tweets." Which is the article I was mentionning. But, indeed the Nielsen report proves the point. Apologies.
- Zackatoustra
I could delete my first comment, but I like the cocept of "what is said is said (bs included)"!
- Zackatoustra
HAHA twitter is such a stupid fad it's funny. For the most part, I have no interest in what you had for breakfast, or whatever it is people seem to post on twitter. Thank god for FriendFeed though! I'm here for interesting and informative Tech, Science, Politics, Lulz, and whatever it is that makes FriendFeed so much better. The only times I EVER find myself on twitter.com is when I get an email notifying me that someone is following me on twitter, and I go decide whether or not I'm gonna follow them....
- LarchOye
Kara, I think you know this, it's what we call the rule of 10. For every 100 visitors, 10 will return, lurk and post ocassionally, but 1 of the 10 will be part of the core that keeps the community alive. This is true in most all online groups. This study is not news.
- Michael Metz
Most the people signed up don't even understand the concept including CNN/ESPN and lots of others.. they are still stuck in "what r you doing" being the only point in Twitter.....
- Nicholas Martini
So easy a 5 year old can do it! - http://socialpatrick.wordpress.com/2009...
Michael Metz liked this
nice to see you on friendfeed
- Michael Metz
Live now: The Gillmor Gang with Steve Gillmor, Mike Arrington, Hugh McLeod, Andrew Keen, Kevin Marks, and Loren Feldman. http://live.twit.tv Discuss here...
ravi karandeekar, Mark Young, Mike Schmidt and 183 other people liked this
how did he die ?
- John Hillestad
legal herion ?
- John Hillestad
I don't wanna sound smushy but the world would be a worse place without Arrington, don't care if you guys love him or hate him xx
- David Lloyd
Oh, just found this chat... thanks
- Tina Chase Gillmor
wow
- Karoli
kevin's link into live.twit.tv breaks
- Karoli
my thoughts and prayers go out to his friends and family. also wish long life and good health to all of TWiT Army
- Andrew Johnson
HI FROM GEORGIA GLAD YALL ARE OK
- daveccorey
wow
- David Lloyd
wow...
- Chris Heath
I know serious Leo, that's serious Leo.
- Mike Lewis
Holy Crap!
- Bill Heslin
this will be news [edit: and it was http://www.google.com/search... & http://news.google.com/news... and personally I think Gawker had pretty good coverage of the whole dust-up http://gawker.com/5282089... ]
- Chris Heath
no drama leo
- Chris Heath
by that logic every person who revierws a product would be biased
- David Lloyd
Techcrunch SUCKS!
- Jason Hansen
wow!
- John Hillestad
I'm so happy!
- Jason Hansen
wow - just wow
- Devin Baines
shortest gillmor gang ever
- Karoli
lol that was classic
- Chris Saad
Wow, social media drama!
- imabonehead
/me applauds Leo for standing up to Arrington's crap
- Omar Egan
Wow, I never saw Leo get mad before. That's a first.
- Dave
Leo blew his top!
- John Hillestad
It's about time someone put Arrington in his place. He is always so cocky!
- Jason Hansen
man i only just caught the end - what happened?
- h1ro
I missed it too
- Simon Wicks
about time
- Jim Posner
OMG
- Steven (optionshiftk)
arrington accused leo of being biased b/c he got a review Palm Pre
- Karoli
Props Leo
- Nick Rae
Arington said Leo was biased because he has a review unit, Leo is the ULTIMATE ethical tech journalist. FUCK YOU ARRINGTON
- David Lloyd
Leo got a review Pre & Arrington was giving Leo crap about it.
- Jason Hansen
Leo for President
- Matthew
what a shitty move from arrington - leo would never do that sort of a thing he is always so upfront
- h1ro
wow. missed arringtons part but saw leos reaction twit live is running reruns.
- Kiran Patchigolla
Kinda felt that one coming for a long, long time.
- Mike Lewis
Arrington should not disrespect Leo on his own network
- Steven (optionshiftk)
The problem with arringtons argument is that every single review unit in history must mean ervery reviewer was biased
- David Lloyd
wow
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Way to go Leo!!
- Andre Vautour
wow from condolences to troll in under 10 minutes. arrington needs to take his meds.You rock Leo
- Andrew Johnson
Arrington's an asshole
- Devin Baines
What jealousy can cause. +1 Leo
- David Schmidt
@Michael that was indeed quite an over-reaction
- Chris Saad
relax people... let's leave the name calling out of here
- decjr
Mike just proved his bottom feeder business model by attacking one of the most trusted people in tech
- Matthew
Sorry about that guys, but I've have enough of Arrington's trolling.
- Leo Laporte
michael arrington Leo always discloses that info
- Andrew Johnson
got funky hold music on calliflower
- Kevin Marks
Mike, I agree, that should be disclosed, but the tone indicated bias and it was disrespectful!
- Mike Lewis
You have nothing to apologize for Leo
- Matthew
Leo is not for sale, fuck you king of the trolls, you always think you are right
- David Lloyd
You did the right thing Leo!
- Omar Egan
as much as Leo maybe right... he really should be more professional....
- John Hillestad
@leo i don't think anyone that knows your work would *ever* think of you not being a stand up guy on disclosure
- h1ro
No need to apologize Leo.
- Bill Heslin
Totally out of line Arrington-if you did your research you would have seen that Leo gave a fair review of the pre-he didn't say it was 100% perfect
- Harvey Birdman
nothing like factions to spice up a 10-minute Gillmor Gang episode. ROFL
- Karoli
No need to apologize Leo How you feel and how you react id your right no worries
- Erle Stride
Seemed a little uncalled for, I think Arrington was justified in asking to get the facts out there, but then again, I don't know their relationship to each other, maybe Arrington was being rude, maybe there's a code you guys like to follow.
- Colin
did i miss something?
- Kevin Marks
I agree. Leo has a history of owning Palm products and he was happy to see the Pre possilby bringing Palm to life again. Never once was it a biased comment. It was him being honest. My friend has a Pre... I have an iPhone.... people that don't have an iPhone or don't want an iPhone, the Pre will be a great choice. Arrington is a jerk.
- Jason Hansen
yes Kevin
- Matthew
the audio should go viral soon
- Jim Posner
Kevin, yeah. A small nuclear implosion.
- Karoli
Professional? It's his network!! He doesn't have to put up with Arrington's crap. In any event I think Arrington needs to be more profesional and stop all that thoughtless crap he says all the time.
- Omar Egan
Why are you confused Arrington? Are you serious?
- Jason Hansen
well, that was interesting.
- Chris Pugh
Hehe - this the Real Time Web in action, that's fo sho
- Devin Baines
you exist only to cause conflict mike, thats your purpose in life
- David Lloyd
Mark, that's kind of harsh. Just sayin'.
- Karoli
You rock Leo - don't take that crap. Arrington is a troll and just trying to bait you. Stick to your guns on this one.
- Mike
Just like to say I love what all of you guys do, laying your opinions out there and getting into heated discussion, I wouldn't like it any other way.
- Colin
@Michael u do lots of dick things to amuse yourself - but this wasn't one of them heh - total over-reaction
- Chris Saad
thats the point ...its HIS network... storming off mad is not professional..... as much as Leo was right to be mad , he should have just cut him off....
- John Hillestad
michael arrington doesn't seem to be able to not be in provocative mode when talking about products and services - leo called him out when he said "what are you gonna do about it?" so leo did something about it... kinda sux cuz i was liking the gillmor gang, but i respect leo laporte for standing up for himself in this instance even if it was a big misunderstanding
- Chris Heath
apologies if i overeacted xxx
- David Lloyd
Jeez, I leave for 20 minutes and miss it? you have got to be kidding me. This live stream approach is pissing me off.
- Aron Michalski
It's his network, running Arrington's show... Leo did the right thing.
- Omar Egan
Leo would have disclosed it was a review model. There was no need to accuse him of being bias just because it was a review model. Leo might have over reacted a little but Arrington was questioning his honesty and Leo maybe over enthusiastic but he his not dishonest.
- Kim Landwehr
I'll be uploading the audio here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
as we are all effectively coming into leo's front room, anyone should be polite to our host
- h1ro
yeah, why would Mike say "What are you going to do about it"? is he really that caveman-ish?
- Matthew
kim they were talking about how it was a review model...
- Chris Heath
Any chance we can hire someone from the Zapruder family to document this stuff?
- Aron Michalski
Chris is right... Why would you ask, "What are you gonna do about it?" That was very childish.
- Jason Hansen
@jason who said that?
- h1ro
I have been so frustrated with many of the people on the Gilmor Gang, but someone needs to be talking about this stuff... [edited/retracted part of this comment] ... I don't think Leo should to take over, I just think something needs to happen to get the show refocused on the content and not the personalities.
- Joel Asaro
Guys, Leo is human as is everyone. I'm not familiar with the previous relationship that he had with Michael, but he's probably having a bad day and got annoyed to be mistreated by Michael just like he did. I also dislike when people have prejudices against others. Furthermore, Leo was planning to buy his Pre a long long time ago. The fact that he got a review unit in does not make him biased.
- Paulius G
Its kind of funny I turned on Twit Tv and all I got of the show was that last minute.
- zephyrlily
If the Mike Arrington supporters ever bothered to watch Leo's shows, they would have seen he has stated it was a review model and even stated he will probably stay with his iPhone. So get a clue
- Harvey Birdman
Joel, I love Leo, but he should absolutely NOT take over Steve Gillmor's show.
- Karoli
cliff - please call me if you can
- Tina Chase Gillmor
the thing i was most excited about leo hosting the gillmor gang is that there might be some decent production values!
- h1ro
I agree with Kim Landwehr. I have never been able to find a moment in which Leo has been dishonest .. keep workin' it Leo!
- John Blanton
tina - which #? d msg me.
- Cliff Gerrish
Waiting for the TC post :)
- Chris Saad
im sure mike will make a post out of this yes :) he will have a provocative title and claim he did nothing wrong
- David Lloyd
Joel, that's TWiT (on sundays)
- Chris Heath
Arrington - Leo said it was a review unit. To start spinning it that he may be "influenced" on a guy who's spent his entire career being an ethical journalist was unnecessary... especially when your hosting your show on his network. I know its in your nature but bro, that's not what the show is about - get a pause button. Stop burning bridges.
- Thusenth
I'll miss Mike Arrington =(
- Colin
just wild to hear Leo Laporte say "Fuck you"...he must've been brewing for awhile.
- Karoli
Karoli - i was shocked too!
- Chris Heath
yes, it was brewing for months
- David Lloyd
Went downstairs just as everyone was signing on - came back up and it's over - :p
- LPH™ and his dog P™
I think that's the first time I've seen angry leo
- Chris Pugh
Mike Arrington, has a way to trip peoples trigger, he seems to get a kick out of it. Like it makes him a big man.
- Kim Landwehr
Well, come on.... Arrington has been an ass for how long?
- Jason Hansen
What's next a 5 minute NGL @ 3am PDT?
- Aron Michalski
Wondering if somebody minds if we put the recording of this, shortest ever Gilmor Gang onto YouTube?
- Mike Hellers
I won't miss him.. The show is always better when Arrington's not on the show anyways.
- Omar Egan
years no doubt :p
- David Lloyd
I agree with Leo 100% here. I would have said this in the IRC chat, but would have been booted.
- Jason Hansen
I feel bad for Steve and Mrs gillmor tho
- David Lloyd
Go Leo! :-)
- Moobie
Is Tina Gillmor still in here?
- Jason Hansen
Aron, a 5-minute NGL at any time of day would be more than what it is now. LOL
- Karoli
Leo spends a lot of his own money on products to be sure that he doesn't "owe" manufacturers anything. Even his advertisements are only for products he uses and likes himself. He only requested this unit because he records today, the day the Pre goes on sale, so he couldn't go out and buy one. If Leo is biased about a product or a company it's because he genuinely likes it. It's something Leo takes very seriously, and he had every right to be upset at someone impugning his honor, rightly or wrongly.
- invariant - farewell FF
hello
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Kind of like telling a friend his kids are ugly while crashing at their house for the weekend...don't be surprised if you are shown the door.
- Jim Posner
very true, invariant
- Eric Florenzano
good point invariant
- Chris Heath
hey Tina - sorry this happened
- Hilary Talbot
Tina, I have a good feeling this will work itself out :) I think that boiling point just needed to happen and cooler heads will prevail :)
- Mike Lewis
Did the show start at the top of the hour?
- zephyrlily
Incredible: Someone already updated Arrington's wikipedia page with a short description of the incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- Steven (optionshiftk)
The Mike: Arrington will never change.
- Jason Hansen
Iunno invariant, I still think the question wasn't that crazy, and I was interested in the answer until I realized it really upset Leo.
- Colin
I would be upset at having my integrity challenged too.
- Karoli
love you tina, you are a top chick xxx
- David Lloyd
I JUST POSTED TO YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Mike Bracco
Jason, agree, which is why you won't hear Leo and Mike together on GG anymore.
- Mike Lewis
Tina.... MWAH. I'm coming your way next week...
- Karoli
thanks @Mike Bracco
- detorn
I think Leo is officially in the Gillmor Gang!
- Wo
RETWEET: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- David Lloyd
Karoli - let's get together when you do
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Colin - I'm not necessarily saying Mike was wrong to ask, I'm just saying that I could understand Leo's reaction.
- invariant - farewell FF
In my best cartman voice "I'm taking my network and going home."
- Paul E. Ester
I'm very shocked... for the record
- Tina Chase Gillmor
crazy that this happened just signed up on ff to participate in the show
- Will Fifer
What happened? - J. Gilbert
- Joe Gilbert
I'm sad my GG was cut short. It's my favorite show of the week.
- Wo
Hmm, I just re-watched the Youtube video, Arrington saying, "What are you going to do about it?" was childish heh, Leo called his bluff.
- Colin
yeah the "what are you going to do about it" from arrington probably not a great move
- h1ro
Just watched the video again - Seriously, Mike did nothing wrong heh
- Chris Saad
re what happened Arington said Leo was biased because he has a review unit, Leo is the ULTIMATE ethical tech journalist
- David Lloyd
If I was not there to see it live I would guess it was staged.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
He never said he was biased - listen carefully - he just said let's get the disclosures out of the way and mentioned that Leo was one of the few to get a demo unit - that's it
- Chris Saad
it was not staged, the anger was real
- David Lloyd
Leo always seemed to be above the GG shenanigans but it's nice he's now down to the GG level. I respect that.
- Wo
I thought Leo was being facetious
- Steven (optionshiftk)
If things didn't get broken once in a while I might not think you guys were actually fighting, so keep it up! lol ;)
- Colin
I think the "what are you going to do about it" was the kicker
- Chris Pugh
So I take it there isn't going to be a Gillmor Gang this week?
- Dave
I really hope it's not the end of TGG on TWiT.
- Wo
GG is not dead, it will be back
- David Lloyd
just not on twit
- David Lloyd
realtime web ladies and gentlemen, friendfeeded, twittered and youtubed within ten minutes of the incident.
- russtbarnacle
well Paul, Mike did ask Leo what he would do about it. He did something. He cut his ass off
- russellcoleman
@chris i think the "what are you going to do about it" wasn't exactly a calming move - more a troll move
- h1ro
Chris, remember Mike was not watching the video, so he though Leo was being facetious
- Steven (optionshiftk)
Damn, I slept through the Gillmor Gang, sorry Steve (I flew back from Virginia this morning and was dead tired.
- Robert Scoble
yes russelcoleman haha
- David Lloyd
got it on facebook too @russtbarnacle
- detorn
Leo took his ball and is going home.
- Wo
arrington has been a complete assclown on the show before
- Moose
you missed a classic Scoble
- David Lloyd
lol
- detorn
it takes alot to upset Leo, i mean REALLY pset Leo
- David Lloyd
Now this is really getting Web 2.0, even the Robert Scoble is here!
- Paulius G
@Robert you can re-watch the whole 5 second show here http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Chris Saad
@scoble http://www.youtube.com/watch... action replay
- h1ro
This had been brewing for a while.... It was only a matter of time.... Leo defended himself and was correct in doing so, It`s his network and his credibility which was questioned.
- David Peralta
russtbarnacle - do you see any irony in the claim of the real-time web youtubed, friendfeeded, twittered and archived? LOL
- Karoli
Maybe Scoble could have calmed Leo down.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
GG will still be on Twit as long as Mike isn't on it
- zephyrlily
Dan is censoring the irc chat room...
- John Hillestad
I was looking forward to the Pre discussion.
- Wo
Before Thursday, Leo had said that he intended to buy a Palm Pre as soon as it came out, but that he'd like to get one a bit early, if possible. His radio show is on Saturday and he wanted to have one to review during that show. I don't think he gets review units very often; this one was something of an unexpected surprise. I think he only got it on Thursday.
- Troy McConaghy
Robert Scoble - call Steve in 10 minutes or when you're alert
- Tina Chase Gillmor
hundreds of peopel are watching this thread btw in real time
- David Lloyd
I suppose it's just me, but seriously, half the time this show is "real time real time" and Scoble screaming FreidnFeed, power to Leo
- Chris
NO MORE GILMORE GANG NOT ENOUGH RESPECT TO THE MAN PROVIDING THE SERVICE
- Daryl Brown
think Leo was beyond calming down, it was weeks of little snide commentsb y arrington that exploded
- David Lloyd
was great a few weeks ago when Loren made Arrington cry and go home
- Moose
Leo really is doing a tremendous favor donating his time to broadcast the GG. After a 3 hour radio show, who could help but be cranky.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
the incident : http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- John Hillestad
Gillmor Gang continues. It has been around for years before twit
- Tina Chase Gillmor
HAHA, awesome, Leo put the Pre unboxing video on!
- invariant - farewell FF
Tina, wasn't it supposed to record on Friday at 3?
- Karoli
Mike will apologize and that will be that. Leo felt insulted and it seemed to be a misunderstanding. Arrington respects Laporte and Laporte respects Arrington.
- Wo
I just watched the video. GG will survive, but without Arrington. - Gilbert
- Joe Gilbert
Thanks to whomever posed the incident; some things never change.
- Aron Michalski
Sounds reasonable Mark, and I remember that Moose. To be honest, it's Leo's network and he can do as he wishes, and if you throw torches in his house, he's bound to crack eventually. Glad to see this up again, I missed it.
- Chris
not angry at you or Steve, you are first class professionals tina xx
- David Lloyd
"Arrington respects Laporte and Laporte respects Arrington." I have no idea about arrington but leo has called him a troll several times
- jccalhoun
they shut the IRC down. FF is just as good
- Mike
Why is Dan muting the IRC chat? Just because he doesn't like to see people talking about what just happened?
- tollie williams
Just hope Arrington does not publish a defamatory post about Leo.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
Yes...Karoli... but we had a family problem yesterday
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Dan is a tool
- David Lloyd
Tina, sorry to hear that. :( I nearly missed the fun.
- Karoli
its funny everyone in California is a liberal until they CENSOR their own irc chat room.... very ' bush ' thing to do Dan....
- John Hillestad
There's a dictator in the IRC chat? Not cool.
- Colin
There was use in shutting down the chat. People will use FF to discuss the incident.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
that irc chat has more drama and BS going on.. i swear it needs to get a Daytime Emmy
- Moose
I'd love to see Arrington go after Leo - Leo has waaaaaay more ethical clout than Arrington and the respect of the whole community / industry
- Mike
you can't censor something if you aren't the government
- jccalhoun
FF just gained a lot of points.
- Colin
I am behind you leo
- Theodore Grabow
Leo can do whatever he wishes with the IRC chat, it is on his server. Let's respect his authority.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
Leo's rant > Christian Bale's
- Chris
twit irc has never been a free speech zone. go in there and say the f word and see how long you last
- jccalhoun
if Leo told Dan to shut down the IRC that's one thing, but I think Dan just made an executive decision which is only going to fuel the fire
- Mike
jccalhoun after today that may be changing. LOL
- Karoli
yeah the irc server is a bit odd, i dont think leos audience is children, who need protecting from big naughty words
- David Lloyd
Been there jccalhoun, that's why I try to spend more time here.
- Colin
Whoa. Not sure what to think about all that, but "Whaddya gonna do about it" is a pretty bullying -- even thuggish -- thing to say...
- Amyloo
Oh please, if there's any time to moderate a chat room, it's now.
- Bwana ☠
there is/was an adult irc channel
- Moose
And our point Bwana, is that there is never a time to moderate.
- Colin
mark, actually there are a fair number of tweens in there.
- jccalhoun
hey Amy
- Hilary Talbot
Leo had a right to be angry but I wish he hadn't gotten so angry as to close the show, would have been better to see them fight it out as to the Pre, a few fuck yous and then go on with the show
- Stephen Pickering
facebook real time chat is better to be honest, we can speak our minds without being banned by those power hungry mods
- David Lloyd
Never a time to moderate eh? Well have fun
- Bwana ☠
hey hil, did you catch that?
- Amyloo
My 2 cents, I'm behind Leo 100%, there is no need to give assholes like that airtime.
- Robert Hafer
yes, it was all over in minutes...
- Hilary Talbot
yes cos preteens have never heard curse words, their lives will be destroyed!
- David Lloyd
Yes.. Gillmor Gang is off ... Arrington out line .... for third time ....
- Michael Holzinger
I think Dan did not like people posting the youtube links to the F bomb so he censored the room like he would Gitmo
- John Hillestad
Chris - don't be silly. Leo's rant was nothing. Is everyone so bored today that they have to get off on this nonsense?
- LPH™ and his dog P™
I think leo felt slighted from steve when he wasn't introduced in the beginning. During the arrington exchange Steve is laughing away.
- Paul E. Ester
Besides, Bwana, it just sends the conversation here... until this thread gets deleted (if it does).
- tollie williams
i'm guessing the people talking about "power hungry mods" are people who pissed off the mods...
- jccalhoun
Dan runs a tight ship
- russellcoleman
When someone is typing the letter "a" 600 times a minute and actually ruining the service, sure, use the system to fix that, but other than that, this current mute is silly.
- Colin
Yeah, because IRC is a right, not a privilege
- Bwana ☠
I would assume Leo will delete this conversation
- Steven (optionshiftk)
oh, I love it when people are called 'power hungry mods'. It usually means they've done something right.
- Karoli
Tina: I will call Steve. Wow, sounds like I missed a something.
- Robert Scoble
the biggest thing to happen in the TWITverse in like...forever...and Dan shuts down the chat? weak!
- zefyr
If this thread gets deleted by anyone it'll re-start somewhere else... You just can't stop it.
- Holger Eilhard
Arrington abuses Scoble all the time, but Scoble just laughs
- Stephen Pickering
I wonder if killing the show was what Arrington had in mind as a response when he asked "Whaddya gonna do about it?"
- Thusenth
Robert - you certainly did
- Devin Baines
OK Robert... yeah, you missed somethiing
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Can they just do the show today without Leo. They have a great panel and I want my GG this week.
- Wo
Of course not Bwana, but if you want to facilitate open discussion, keep your channel open.
- Colin
cut & paste this thread to prove it ' existed '
- John Hillestad
LOL @ Scobles understatement
- Moose
"What are you going to do about it?" *initiating shutdown sequence*
- zephyrlily
google indexes this stuff fast anyway
- Karoli
Steve says GG will resume as soon as we can make new arrangements
- Tina Chase Gillmor
resume as in today.. somewhere else?
- Moose
good old steve, another one of the good guys
- David Lloyd
today Tina?
- Wo
thanks for the update @tina
- h1ro
any one with firefox could have downloaded it already for "posterity"...
- Aron Michalski
Will Steve try and stream it over ustream?
- Steven (optionshiftk)
not today maybe tomorrow or Monday after WWDC
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Here's a similar incident that happened in the past: http://www.techcult.com/wired-v...
- invariant - farewell FF
@Bwana Moderation certainly helps in many cases, but it's also nice to have an unmoderated place to chat for those that want it.
- 321
TWiT is much more than just the Gillmor Gang though.
- Jason Hansen
Aron, Theatre of the Absurd is an excellent description. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- Karoli
I'm not sure why it pushed my buttons so hard - closing down the show was overreacting for sure and I apologize for the disrespect it showed the other panelists. Arrington is a piece of work. I can think of one time when he stimulated the conversation in a very positive manner (his question about how to respond to an invitation to talk from a guy he was slamming) but most of the time he...
more...
- Leo Laporte
Well Tina, if we can help by being an audience, just let us know when and if it's happening...
- Aron Michalski
This is absolutely asinine. Leo Laporte has done nothing but good for his audience and viewers in the past. Leo deserves better than to work with some boldfaced idiot like Arrington. Leo was NOT in the wrong by any means necessary. I couldn't care less if I ever heard from Arrington again.
- David Ford
And Mike really wonders why people "do things" to him...?
- Holger Eilhard
good statement Leo
- David Lloyd
I would have to say that Arrington was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was a BIG straw, but Leo has been under a lot of stress as of late. Hang in there Leo!
- Patrick Hall
Why isn't the Gilmore Gang part of the whole TWiT feed in iTunes?
- Michael Kaiser
Well done Leo, he really is a troll and I applaud you for not putting up with his shit.
- Simon Tracey
WTG Leo
- Moose
he is a troll, the king of the trolls, but he is just so damn powerful and influential :(
- David Lloyd
Leo: Let Gillmor Gang do their own thing.
- Jason Hansen
Jason is coming to the TWiT network btw, as a sindicate
- David Lloyd
It's all fun and games until you get kicked off TWiT
- Bwana ☠
Does Gillmor Gang get posted somewhere after the fact? http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/ hasn't been updated since April.
- Thusenth
@Leo Thanks to you sir for standing up for us. I for one have NEVER liked Arrington. I don't think the GG should continue on TWiT.
- David Ford
You called his bluff Leo, I say continue without Arrington, if that's possible.
- Colin
Wow. Leo's response to what happened was very honorable. That shows the difference between Leo and Arrington. Arrington would never have the decency to respond in such a reasonable way on FF. That's why we love Leo.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
Oh No, ARRINGTONS POST is up oN TC
- David Lloyd
doesnt mention leo tho
- David Lloyd
lmao Bwana
- Moose
@leo i don't think anything that happened today has even slightly damaged my opinion of you or the Twit network. it seemed like arrington was deliberately trying to push your buttons for whatever reason. i think you made the move that was right for you at the time. keep up the great work and go have a nice cup of peppermint tea
- h1ro
What an interesting political dilemma. Leo won't do anything with Arrington, Steve edits TechcrunchIT
- Karoli
I would never kick you off Bwana!
- Leo Laporte
Leo: The only people you didn't disrespect was Steve Gillmor, he laughed through the whole thing, & Arrington.
- Jason Hansen
GG Never felt like the right vibe for TWiT. Don't blame you for how you feel Leo. No worries. Please come back on and we can do something fun.
- Libertine
Yeah Karoli. Therein lies the difficulty.
- Leo Laporte
Looks like Leo does have some weight behind him - Earthquake just felt in the Bay Area.
- Mike
Wow, I missed a lot. Leo, keep Gillmor Gang off of TWiT. You did the right thing, and I thank you for it.
- TeraDyne Azurepaw
Leo :)
- Bwana ☠
I think they're saving up so that catching up on back episodes will fill your hard drive...
- Aron Michalski
Stick to your guns Leo. Integrity is everything.
- Chuck
Leo, in response to your question of whether to cancel the GG, I personally like it on TWIT Live.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
"Dan if all the chat is going to be for the next half hour is people obsessing about it - i think it's best not to have open chat." WTF? lol
- Erle Stride
Wow, never seen Leo like that. Gotta defend yourself if someone thinks your being bought out.
- Adam Windisch
Let's go back to broadcasting GG the old way... I want to throw Mike off the show.
- Jerry Schuman
wow can't believe I missed it give em hell Leo. Please don't cancel the gilmore gang though, I love to hate those guys
- BryanSchuetz
MP3 of the whole show: http://www.archive.org/downloa...
- Jack
The thing about Leo, he wouldnt even advertise a product he doesnt love! he has to ADORE A PRODUCT to endorse it
- David Lloyd
I think Dan is out of line cutting off IRC, if Leo didn't want conversation about this he would have deleted this thread.
- Mike Saraf
Well, my vote is that the Gillmor Gang continue without restriction. If restrictions mean not working with you, Leo, then I guess that's my vote.
- Karoli
I could do without GG on Twit Live personally, never felt like a good fit compared to the rest of your shows. Would personally rather see your time/energy on more interesting things (the new Google Show, for example).
- Patrick Sullivan
@mark link for arringtons post on tc?
- h1ro
Erie - I don't blame Dan...I would have just moderated the channel for voiced users though. But he runs it, and there's always other places to chat.
- Bwana ☠
Leo, I enjoy the Gillmor Gang on TWiT Live but don't think you should stand for being bated and trolled.
- Chris Pugh
I love GG with Loren .. Arrington is a distraction at best
- Moose
Just get rid of Mike, everyone else seems to play nice, he's the common denominator in every incident.
- Colin
@Mark That post has nothing to do with what happend on Gillmor Gang though.
- 321
Bwana Who's Erie?
- Erle Stride
I didn't "cut off irc".. i decided to mute it for a few minutes to qwell the constant gossip. It will be back in a few minutes.
- Dan Hendricks
it was a mistake h1ro, it said it came from arringtons twitter, but its not about leo but about engineers they poached
- David Lloyd
Steve laughed because surely he thought this was a joke
- Tina Chase Gillmor
With htat said, I'm no fan of Mike Arrington's. I am a GG fan and a Leo fan.
- Karoli
Leo , look at it this way you had your ball meme the other week and now you've got this video that could meme,your on a roll your the meme machine!
- russtbarnacle
Erle - Erie is you when I'm reading without my glasses
- Bwana ☠
i think many of us thought it was a joke for the first few seconds
- David Lloyd
:)
- Bwana ☠
Leo is going on techmeme?
- David Lloyd
I imagine Gilmore and Arrington may be a package deal
- zefyr
Bwana I know just breaking balls
- Erle Stride
I agree that Dan should unmute IRC. @Bwana, he didn't filter it for trolls. He personally didn't like the TWiT community discussing the current event. IMHO - not the best use of censorship.
- tollie williams
I deserved it :)
- Bwana ☠
irc has a gossip filter?
- Moose
Would be a bit politically touchy for Steve to toss Mike off GG to stay on Twit network...just sayin'.
- Karoli
Isn't this all Marc Canters fault? He usually brings the sunshine to the gang.
- Paul E. Ester
So did anyone happen to record video of the show? I missed it
- BryanSchuetz
IRC is back for anyone interested
- Mike
Dan - do your thing. I have an inkling of an idea of what you're going through.
- Bwana ☠
Maybe they can alternate Mike and Leo each week?
- Dave
So lets see Huge issue happens in Twit And the way Dan feels to deal with it is to NOT allow Leos' Army to discuss it? WOW
- Erle Stride
FF > IRC
- David Lloyd
Dan, good thing tomorrow is a slow tech news day, huh? :P
- Mike Lewis
until they add custom formatting here? Lo
- David Lloyd
Wow I've only seen two episodes of GG so far. Gotta say last weeks show was better. Hang in there Leo.
- John Brazel
you got that one right Professor.
- John Blanton
from twhirl
Some people are calling this set up...i don't believe it, but i guess its possible.
- Zee.
Full show here, it was good at the beginning: http://www.archive.org/downloa...
- Jack
RT Jason Calicanus "This is what happens when I resign from the Gillmor Gang... everyone loses it! :-)"
- David Lloyd
Doing set ups is not Leo's style, which is the reason I absolutely don't believe the theories of this being intentional.
- Paulius G
Yeah, for a moment I thought it was staged, like all this Bruno Eminem thing, but I guess it's NOT.
- Nir Ben Yona
If this was a setup then Bruno's balls in Eminems face was real
- Chris Pugh
well Leo can act, but that would be an oscar performance
- David Lloyd
Zee: it's not setup. Boy, this has kicked off a whole debate in the scoble household with Maryam and Halley Suitt. I sure missed a humdinger to sleep through!
- Robert Scoble
Just to be clear, I almost always buy the products I review, mostly because I don't like "owing" the PR folks and I hate the "when are you planning on covering it" phone calls, but also to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest. My policy when I accept a review unit is to return the unit and buy one at full retail if I want to keep using it. I don't even do "friends and family...
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- Leo Laporte
Well said Leo!
- Harvey Birdman
I wonder if the show notes are on the twit wiki yet
- David Lloyd
Leo has 30 year history of integrity
- David Lloyd
@Leo Mike never accused you of otherwise
- Chris Saad
Leo: I just received a Palm Pre unit that I have to return in seven days, too.
- Robert Scoble
He was just getting the disclosures out of the way
- Chris Saad
Leo, as someone who occasionally reviews products too, I totally get where you're coming from. Questioning your integrity was out of line and yes, trollish.
- Karoli
Leo you are beyond reproach.
- BryanSchuetz
right on - and that's why we all respect your opinion
- h1ro
Chris, there was more than that to it
- Karoli
We know, Leo, and we trust your reviews as a result
- Devin Baines
Not so Chris - he very clearly was implying that there was some quid pro quo for the review unit.
- Leo Laporte
Thank you Leo. Now, to those of you who said otherwise about Leo, I have the same thing to say to you as he said to Arrington.
- David Ford
What Mike asked was fine, and how Leo responded was fine, what was not fine was the comment, "What are you going to do about it?"
- Colin
You don`t have to explain yourself Leo, your integrity is well recognized and we don`t pay attention to trolls. We are behind you 100%. I say the show takes a hike
- David Peralta
No he really wasn't - listen to the youtube recording - he stopped you before you even reviewed the thing and just wanted to get the disclosure out of the way
- Chris Saad
re colin, flame baiting?
- David Lloyd
Sorry guys, but all I can think of right now is : Man I love friendFeed
- TunisianGuy
It was snarky, and the reiteration of the "free pre" thing was just the extra stab.
- Karoli
We love you Leo! Hang in there!
- Head Ov Metal
can you call tina please Leo xx
- David Lloyd
@tunisianguy i just wish that friendfeed would autoscroll to the bottom of this page when there is new content
- h1ro
Awesome statement Leo, I just reblogged it so people are clear
- Bwana ☠
@Leo as I said above - Mike does lots of crazy things - this wasn't one of them - his point was "did u get a free one, wow most of us didn't"
- Chris Saad
I'm really bummed out because I like both Leo and Mike and now I feel a bit caught in between. Sort of like having two divorcing parents, I guess.
- Robert Scoble
Mark, am I flame-baiting do you mean, or Mike's comment?
- Colin
Everyone is on your side Leo! you did the right thing, don't doubt that for a second!
- Jack
Gilmor Gang should continue on TWiT, with Steve in charge of the guests he wants to bring on. Michael Arrington can cause friction but there has been plenty of outrageous comments on GG. Arrington is too much of a force in the digital universe to simply ignore. I very much admire Leo for what he is doing with TWiT and understand losing his temper. But, if Leo doesn't want to do the show, then have someone else "moderate" it. We need to hear all sides and opinions presented on shows like GG.
- Michael Ritter
Leo got Pwned lol.
- Matt Ruiz
friendfeed needs to either put a margin at the bottom of the page or else stop scrolling when i'm typing. it's distracting to type while messages push it down. grrrrr.
- Karoli
RT Scoble---pick the better parent then---Leo
- Harvey Birdman
Remember when RSS was dead? Those were the days. Ok, last week.
- Professor Messer
Leo, we know better, despite what arrington says. I hope you don't think we'd believe him over you.
- Lise
We love you Leo!
- Moobie
that means two Christmas's Scoble = Win
- BryanSchuetz
Harvey: I will stay with both. My friends don't force me to choose.
- Robert Scoble
Professer Messer, LOL. Ah, for the good ole' days when RSS died.
- Karoli
@Robert choose life :)
- Chris Saad
Well said, Robert.
- David Ford
Chris Saad that name rings a bell, doesnt he own apml.org?
- David Lloyd
Canter was on GG via TWiT.. showing everyone his stash of weed....Steve forgave hime for that and he was back on a few weeks later
- Moose
Chris: it's interesting how things like these cause conversations big time.
- Robert Scoble
@Mark yes I do
- Chris Saad
:25 in the youtube video trying to figure out what Arrington says...
- Thomas McGivern
Robert, not so interesting. Conflict always draws observers and opinions.
- Karoli
@Robert of course they do - this is one big highschool replay :)
- Chris Saad
Leo was very clear it was a review unit. Had Arrington stopped there things might have continued fine. He continued saying "Free Pre"and then said "What are you going to do about it". It was classic bully antics ....
- Jason Beck
Chris: life is one big highschool replay. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
Hey ProfesorMesser loving the aplus course-you are a great podcaster.(will this get me an A)
- earl wallace
Yet another reason for me to continue my personal Boycott of TC. Just as I was starting to read them again, :(
- Jimminy Fuller
@Robert lol true I guess
- Chris Saad
Agreed, this is life.
- Colin
@Scoble -- lol, wish you'd been there.. might have diffused the situation!
- Adnan
Free Pre which yo8u can keep for 7 days? Thats hardly a game changetr
- David Lloyd
Leo, I have total respect for you, your approach and network. You had every right to respond as you did. We all know you are a gadget freak and have always appeared to operate with forthright integrity. My own run ins with Arrington for holding a non-Arrington opinion (read popular) probably don't even register with him. It left me feeling as if I had been played and with a very bad taste in my mouth. Success is measured in different ways.
- Aron Michalski
In other news, I'm still not getting a Pre, but it's a cool piece of hardware!
- Mike Lewis
Jason: Arrington is a bully sometimes, but that's what makes him interesting. Not everyone likes that approach, though.
- Robert Scoble
Its not late to bring some peace back
- Johni Fisher
You don't bully leo though scoble
- Jack
...and the pug barks, life goes on. GG will find a new home, which we may or may not find because it will be real-time only, and we will have to rely on reading our tea leaves or gluing ourselves to Twitter and/or Friendfeed to find it. Ah, the power of the gesture.
- Karoli
I feel that Mike is losing 'street Cred" in the tech world.....
- Stanley Suan
Just finished watching Apocalypse Now for the first time - crazy film - almost as weird as the @leolaporte @arrington freakout :)
- Chris Saad
Adnan: I doubt I could have diffused this one. I would have been forced to be on Leo's side because I have a review unit now from Palm too.
- Robert Scoble
You have a "free pre" then in Mikes eyes
- David Lloyd
It's on the reddits now - http://bit.ly/u0Ilr
- James
"what are you going to do about it?" is never anything but a dick move in my book
- jccalhoun
Karoli lol
- russtbarnacle
Arrington maybe interesting to the people watching the conversation, infuriating those who are part of the conversation..
- Kim Landwehr
was the google show suposed to be sat and gg on fri?
- Steve Ford
Tina I pinged you yesterday about getting together with Karoli.
- Francine Hardaway
from BuddyFeed
No reason Leo need suffer fools gladly on the network he created. Rock on Mr. Laporte!
- John Brazel
Actually Canter is infuriating - Mike is fun :)
- Chris Saad
Steve: yes, but the Gillmors had a family issue they had to take care of yesterday.
- Robert Scoble
Francine - sorry didn't get it .. Yesterday was a mess for me/us
- Tina Chase Gillmor
whats arringtons take on all this?
- Dano Hart
he hasnt commented publically, he is with his dog
- David Lloyd
Don't you Think the GG meltdown was really about Rajeev's death and raw feelings?
- Francine Hardaway
from BuddyFeed
I like cheese.
- Benjamin Grelle
Who really cares what arrington's take is on anything?
- Harvey Birdman
@ right, but it seemed to me that there was lots of stuff going on backstage getting it together and onto youtube and so on, and this will likely disrupt that effort. As well as the political concerns you mentioned before.
- Hilary Talbot
I like John Cheese
- David Lloyd
that was @karoli, sorry
- Hilary Talbot
Ok! Is there any other show please. I'm all set up. Bulleit Bourbon and everything! Damn you Palm
- TunisianGuy
Yes, they needed you there Robert. I think you could have diffused it, like you did when Jason and Cantor were getting into it, but I have to admit I've never seen Leo get that angry
- Stephen Pickering
Dano - I don't think arrington understands what happened, he said earlier he went for a walk
- Moobie
@Harvey lol err... everyone cares - that's why he runs one of the biggest Tech news & events companies in the valley
- Chris Saad
Stephen: I agree, I've never seen Leo lose it like that. Arrington makes me feel like that once in a while too.
- Robert Scoble
There's just something about the Gillmor Gang that seems to engender flame-ups. It's not the direction I want to take TWiT, frankly.
- Leo Laporte
Hard to have a decent conversation when someone is poking you with a shark stick, don't care who it is...
- Aron Michalski
I agree with Harvey, no one cares
- David Peralta
@Chris-that's funny, I've only heard about him because of Leo.
- Harvey Birdman
Leo I've watched you from all the way back since ZDTV. Even helped out in the chats as a ZDTV chat host. Still watch you today. I have deeply respected you from those days and after what I've seen today I still hold very high respect for you. It's not cool to see anyone question anyone about their integrity over any product or anything for that matter. Just sounds more like this Mike...
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- Grady Joslin
has gillmore commented
- Steve Ford
I think most of us would agree leo
- Jack
@Grady Joslin - Well said, and seconded, sir.
- David Ford
I agree with you Leo
- Theodore Grabow
Updated the bootleg feed: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
Agreed Leo
- Moobie
@Frank TGG won't be airing today.. based on earlier responses on the thread.
- Divya Mistry
Well, at least I didn't have to miss the Belmont Stakes!
- Stephen Pickering
Leo I'm with you. You don't need a show like GG on your network
- russellcoleman
Waffles are also delicious.
- Benjamin Grelle
Halley says "your sleeping was brilliant strategically." Ahh, my nap wasn't planned. Heheh
- Robert Scoble
i'm glad to know friendfeed can handle all this.hehe
- Dano Hart
arrington posts on techcrunch http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- jccalhoun
RT ARRINGTON http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- David Lloyd
Dano: there's a reason why I have been so excited about friendfeed.
- Robert Scoble
Decent post by Arrington with some gracious comments
- David Lloyd
He respects Leo I think
- David Lloyd
Looks like we need president Obama to mediate between the sides and straighten the difficulties, otherwise the gang will be out of its sting.
- Nir Ben Yona
@robertscoble yeah I like this better than twitter, but everyones on twitter. That TC post is what I wanted to read was mikes side, just cause I'm curious
- Dano Hart
anyway to get the latest post at the top?
- detorn
obama is too busy going on ' date night '
- John Hillestad
Good post from Mike.
- invariant - farewell FF
Good post form Mike. with an apology
- David Lloyd
Mike apologizes to Leo
- David Peralta
if Leo was 99% of any other tech journos, he wouldnt have gotten that apology
- David Lloyd
Respect exists.
- David Lloyd
Do a twitter search on leo laporte and you see thousands of people agreeing with leo. sometimes people just need to be told what they are doing is wrong and leo did exactly that. thumbs up leo
- Austin Garrod
yes ive been monitoring a number of comment places and its 95% support Leo across platforms
- David Lloyd
Arrington apologizes, the nukes are put away.
- Karoli
if most people weren't supporting Leo I don't see arrington apologizing. doesn't arrington have some place besides the front page of techcrunch to apologize? Some place that won't get him more publicity and make him out to look like a big man for apologizing?
- jccalhoun
well I am sure this might make techmeme, what do you think?
- David Lloyd
Good post by Mike Arrington on Tech Crunch, He obviously spoke before he thought and now is sorry.
- Kim Landwehr
In some strange way, I think Palm is the winner here
- Bwana ☠
the Arrington apology doesn't sound like an apology... he's saying he is sorry leo was offended by the question, not that he asked it...
- detorn
finally got to the end of this thing.... friendfeed conversations are getting way way too long.. guess that's kinda the worry leo has had about 'spam' on ff
- Christopher Harris
whats that tech site which has the gutter news?
- David Lloyd
I now have a headache
- Bwana ☠
he did apologize : http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- John Hillestad
James: for arrington, thats a gracious apology, as close as will ever be
- David Lloyd
To quote Arrington's "apology" - "Comment moderation is going to be tight on this post, so keep it constructive." Unlike here where we can actually speak out minds and exercise our opinions without moderation. Arrington has lost a lot of credibility here I think.
- Simon Tracey
Weakest. Apology. Ever.
- Eric Florenzano
The full show! http://www.archive.org/downloa...
- Chris
Well that was a very nice apology. I might have to reconsider.
- Leo Laporte
Leo-don't, he's not worth it.
- Harvey Birdman
"And I don’t consider asking a journalist to disclose if a device he says he loves was given to him for free or not as being a particularly trollish thing to do." Arrington see not an apology, an explanation. Not taking sides either way, but call this what it is
- detorn
Not one of the finest moments on TWiT but very understandable. Leo's built a great career out of his knowledge and integrity and Arrington seems to be the type to push anyone's buttons he can.... That's what has made them both successful in their own right. Cooler heads will always prevail, and I think this is won't be an exception
- Kyle
@bwana I agree on both statements. It is good for palm and I do have a headache from catching up on all this.hehe
- Dano Hart
Leo be the better man and accept his apology and keep the show running...
- John Hillestad
Whoa. I was just gonna question if Leo was going to reconsider. I think respects you, Leo. Mike is who he is, but I think he realized he screwed up.
- Lise
I kind of figure from Mike Arrington, this is about as big of apology as he is going to give.
- Kim Landwehr
Make peace not war Leo.
- Willem (@wim66) ☠
Leo, my friend, for Arrington, that was as close to getting down and kissing your feet he will ever do to anyone. He respects you.
- David Lloyd
Leo, even though I am a fan of the Gillmor Gang, I completely understand if you decide it would be best if they find another host.
- Dave
Peace may be the best solution here; although I do agree the GG stands out as having a different tone than other TWiT shows, not one I'm particularly fond of. Maybe a peaceful parting is the best solution?
- Jason Beck
You are all friends ....we cant change the past go for a better future
- Johni Fisher
Nice, I post a reasonable comment on TechCrunch, and it gets rejected. Now who's biased? ;)
- David Ford
Let the show go, Leo. Bitter, yammering tech-challenged guests aren't part of TWIT's future.
- Robert Kenney
The best trolls always say just kidding at the last second. Kudos to Arrington for being an epic troll with that techcrunch "nonpology"
- Dan Hendricks
Yeah, what an apology. Arrington is just butt-hurt that Palm knows he's not a journalist and his "publication" is something to be avoided.
- Adam Turetzky
Don't piss off the geeks they love Leo. DOS maybe?
- Randy Green
Leo - I would sleep on it over a fine wine and a Palm Pre
- Bwana ☠
Wow! Just heard it. I don't know who Mike Arrington is, but Leo has kept me up to speed on all things tech for at least a decade now. I'm sticking with Leo.
- Michael Kaiser
In the words of Admiral Ackbar, "It's a trap!" The apology was strategy not sincerity.
- Benjamin Grelle
I say let Arrington go play in his own sandbox hardly a loss to the tech community if he never appears on another show with Leo.
- John Brazel
It just isn't TWiT's style to be honest Leo, plus some of us are really missing Munchcast, even if that probably wouldn't land in place of it. Either way, I'm really tempted to get a Pre at some point, looks like a reallly nice phone.
- Chris
It would be nice if this came to a peaceful conclusion, but it would be a mistake to continue GG on Twit, the show is too trollish and I suspect Gilmore encourages it.
- Moobie
No. Arrington is STILL being a douche in his post, 'The fact that few people ever return them is rarely brought up.' (Heavily implicit thuggery.) Leo is above question. No forgiveness.
- Libertine
Let it go Leo, they deserve themselves.
- Richard Coppen
he should dump Gilmore and his gang. what a bunch of yo yos.
- John Merrill
I just love in Mike's apology where he says "I didn't think..." Yeah Mike, apparently you didn't think. And look what you stepped into. It's shame people are still like that these days. Leo I just say part ways with him. Its not worth supporting such... crap.
- Grady Joslin
just told my parents about what happend and the first thing my dad said was, good for leo, i know airengton, he deserves it
- Austin Garrod
Leo, as I don't care for the language, I believe you did the right thing, you don't need that type of show, keep up the good work.
- Robert Lee
Let Gilmore and his people go. Not what your network needs.
- Steve
keep GG on TWiT if possible, it's been good
- Christopher Harris
I like Leo on GG. A different vibe from the actual Twit show. I listen to most of the shows on the network, GG was/is really cool for what it was/is.
- detorn
Disclosure: when I got back from Virginia this morning a Palm Pre was waiting for me. I didn't ask for it, I didn't know it was coming. It is only for seven days (I have to send it back). Now, that said, I think it's a valid question to wonder what Mike is wondering. It's something I always ask myself when I get goodies from the industry. Did I get these because I'm too nice? I used to...
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- Robert Scoble
What was the idea behind having GG on TWiT in the first place? Because of Leo's relationship w/ Gilmour?
- Kyle
I left that comment over on TechCrunch.
- Robert Scoble
You know, I've been a fan of TWIT and Gillmor Gang since the first time I heard both podcasts. I know Steve and Tina, and have a great deal of respect for what Steve does with the Gillmor Gang. It's pretty aggravating to read all these nasty barbs aimed at Steve. It's a different show. It's a great show. It's not TWIT. But why is it that everyone wants to draw a line between them?
- Karoli
I like Leo being direct, admire men that are like that. Also Leo has always been honest.GG had always negative karma. Shut down show and do something better with valuable time.
- Heiti Kruusmaa
Well! That was a nice 90 minutes of high drama. Kinda like a made-for-TV movie. Steve did say he thinks it's a video show
- Amyloo
wait, has tech crunch never received a test unit?
- Austin Garrod
Leo any idea when a real review is going to come, I've caught bits and pieces of your "ongoing" review since the unboxing. The fact that most recently I had heard you'll stick with your iphone, but respect the tech in the pre.
- Steve Ford
I can see the Leo Versus Arrington mashups on youtube now?
- Randy Green
Leo, although I find the GG to be informative and entertaining in it's own way, I never thought it could be done in a style or format in line with the production quality you regularly offer on the TWiT Network.
- Craig Durling
Karoli: people want to choose sides in fights like this. I don't know why that's a human reaction, but it is. Leo has a lot of very loyal fans. I'm among them. We all ourselves Laporteans, even. I'm also a major fan of Mike Arrington, but Mike often gets people to have a quite different relationship with him. People often see him as rude or worse. That's because Mike often says stuff...
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- Robert Scoble
I thought this thread would be the one with the highest amount of comments on FriendFeed. But here's one with over 6,000: http://friendfeed.com/ideali...
- David Schmidt
Robert: Well, having been the butt of Mike Arrington's need to say incendiary stuff, I understand that. However, Steve Gillmor is not Mike Arrington. GG is not Mike Arrington. There is much, much more to GG than Mike Arrington. would be nice to see them judged separately.
- Karoli
in ealier conversations with david pogue leo proved his lack of any bias.
- Tobias Lewsadder
I hope the gang ( excluding Arrington) from GG will be back on Twit individually at some point. They are all great guests each with strong personallities but much character. It can be hard for so many strong personallities to be in the same room or discussion sometimes but they have done a better job than I could do on the show, so props to them. I think arrington becomes a troll when in the mix, he can't hang with the big boys. JMHO&2C
- Andrew Johnson
Leo, GG does nothing to help the TWiT family of shows. Looking across the shows, it should hold no place in your schedule. I'd rather hear something else.
- Rob Blatt
Get Mike Arrington on TWiT tomorrow! That = ratings!
- Chris
I want The Gillmor Gang on TWiT. It's not consistent in it's quality but often times can be the best show on the web. TWiT will give it the kind of audience it deserves. I hope Leo can work with the Gillmor Gang including Arrington and help them produce and distribute thought provoking content.
- Wo
@david wow, wish I knew what that thread was all about
- BryanSchuetz
Rob: I think Leo is trying to build a network with a variety of styles and topics. That's key to having a strong network. I know a radio station owner who has both liberal and conservative talk show hosts who hate each other. But by doing that he has a far bigger audience than if he just went all one way where everyone got along nicely. Plus the station looks far more professional and objective than if it were all run by Rush Limbaugh wannabes. Same for Leo's network.
- Robert Scoble
I enjoyed GG on TWiT when I was able to see it. It is a group of people with strong opinions and that is not necessarily a bad thing. I didn'
- kenneth glenn
The Gillmor Gang is my favorite show on the network, call me shallow and entertainment-hungry, but I really do like when people discuss things with this much passion, especially technology!
- Colin
Leo: I think you should reconsider, not because you were wrong to get upset, but because it probably isn't worth cutting all ties. That is too absolute and despite his serious faults Arrington does have things to contribute. That said I totally agree there is just something about GG that causes flame ups and unless that can change you shouldn't have it be a part of TWIT.
- Joel Asaro
Colin: we are passionate, aren't we?
- Robert Scoble
@bryan: Haha, I thought Google would be assisting. Check this: http://tinyurl.com/qnugbz
- David Schmidt
Robert: You are, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
- Colin
Colin: people who are passionate often get misunderstood or cause opposite passions in people. I've run into that many times. How many people have asked me if I get paid by Friendfeed because I'm so passionate about it?
- Robert Scoble
@david heh, figures who in here reads Cyrillic?
- BryanSchuetz
it is the passion and the humor that draws me back. That, and the fact that you all force me to think.
- Karoli
If The Gillmor Gang stays on TWIT I think Leo should step out of the "host" chair and be a guest with someone else controlling the board.
- Chris Pugh
I've wondered if you get payed by FriendFeed myself hah, nah I'm kidding.
- Colin
I feel bad for Steve Gillmor that his show was ruined today by a stupid remark and a temper tantrum.
- Wo
Karoli: being on the Gillmor Gang causes me to think harder than anything else I do during the week. Trying to keep up with all the other people is mentally challenging to me.
- Robert Scoble
Wo - and that's a first? :)
- Bwana ☠
@Chris P - what would that solve?
- Lise
so is GG toast? or needs to be reformatted?
- Steve Ford
You guys are like professional athletes, putting yourselves on the line with the same opinions we have, so that we don't have to.
- Colin
Steve Ford I'm sure everything will be worked out in the next few days
- Andrew Johnson
Leo should bring in Merlin Mann to host the GG, now that would be fun to watch.
- BryanSchuetz
Lise, Leo could walk off the show and not shut it down. There are other people on the show who made time to be available.
- Chris Pugh
i need to say sorry to leo because in the chat room i was mad at him for cutting the show but it was his right to do after what mike said what happed i was on usterem and it got cut off so i didnt see the whole thing so i just saw a video of it so i apology to leo
- Andrew Villafane
Steve: Gillmor Gang is not dead.
- Robert Scoble
wish it was old days when men cleared misunderstandings with pistols and swords:) then men also choose their words and showed more respect :)...
- Heiti Kruusmaa
I figure they will straighten it out between them once they both cool down.
- Kim Landwehr
If the show continues, and especially if Mike is still on it, you guys are doing something with the Gillmor Gang that I don't think I've seen in any type of media anywhere else.
- Colin
We need that kind of Tech Jerry's TV
- TunisianGuy
Gillmor Gang is not dead. Hopefully Newsgang isn't dead either, just waiting for a place in time to be resurrected. But then again, North Korea hasn't apologized to South Korea for the threats...so who knows?
- Karoli
Colin: the show will continue.
- Robert Scoble
leo laporte has always appeared to me to be a gentleman and to let someone bring you down to their level isnt flattering. the "what are you going to do about it?!?!"comment unfortunately showed the maturity of the conversation.
- Tobias Lewsadder
I like GG on the TWIT network and Leo's presence on the show. I just hope that in whatever future there is there is a time shifted alternative to missing it every week.
- Aron Michalski
Robert: I too posted on Mike's article. I struggle with his way of drawing out a story because it always appears to be disrespectful to the person he is trying to pry the story out of, typical of mainstream journalism IMHO. The story is more important than the people involved. I think Mike could have been more tactful in light of the great job he did on Rajeev. I know if we wait long enough with those who piss us off eventually show us their good side.
- Owen Greaves
hey robert so with the new studio you are makeing you could broadcast it
- Andrew Villafane
Interesting that Arrington's swipe at Leo was the same thing that he swiped at me and a zillion others for...as if we couldn't possibly offer unbiased reviews of products/sites/services.
- Karoli
I posted the following on Mike's Ouch post: Thanks for the post, Mike. Apology accepted. Now that I know what was going on in your mind, I apologize to you. There seems to be something about the Gillmor Gang that just engenders over the top passion. I’m embarrassed by my overreaction. Peace.
- Leo Laporte
Nice, move along people ;)
- David Lloyd
Robert/Colin: I hope the shows doesn't just continue, but improves... There has to be a way to have these really interesting and important conversations without all the ego and defending semantic arguments instead of trying to understand one another.
- Joel Asaro
Andrew: I don't have the studio built and I don't have the ability to host that here, my bandwidth isn't reliable enough.
- Robert Scoble
Nice to see that it all worked out so well.
- 321
Wow, things move fast on the www. Nice on you both to offer apologies that fast :)
- Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal
Leo: nice, hope the show can go on! I think it would be nice to have not so many quick arguments, either, but that's the Gillmor Gang!
- Robert Scoble
Joel, pearls don't exist without sand irritating the oyster. Just sayin'
- Karoli
arrington is good at what he does and gets results, that cant be disputed. i watched his interview with kevin rose and kevin rose looked so uncomfortable the whole time
- Tobias Lewsadder
Lasse: welcome to the real time web!
- Robert Scoble
Glad both parties apologized. Stupid comment and over reaction. Gillmor Gang next week?
- Wo
Aw Leo, you're too good a man. He's an a-hole. Don't be embarrassed.
- Libertine
GG on TWiT is the best match to bring forward thinkers and tech enthusiasts together, it will be great if Leo reconsiders. If not, I will follow Steve and the Gang wherever they decide to continue with this realtime experiment.
- Alberto Saavedra
real time web wins again
- David Lloyd
leo proves to be a true gentleman!!!!!
- Tobias Lewsadder
Arguments is not the problem. Questioning ethics is. Rule #1 Dont fight a land war in aisa. Rule #2 Dont piss of the host when it is dealing with ethics
- Darryl Adams
I know this incident will color the future epsiodes of the "The Gillmore Gang" podcast, and the perception of the people who hear about the incident and wonder what, why, who about the podcast.
- Stanley Suan
so leo will there be a show next week or you dont want to do it anymore???
- Andrew Villafane
Leo: how about with Steve, have you talked with him?
- Robert Scoble
The real time web isn't always puppy dogs and ice creame cones
- Chris Pugh
the real time real world isnt either Chris :p
- David Lloyd
It's nice to know that you guys are human, and you get much more respect from me knowing that you are.
- Colin
Stanley: On the real-time ADHD web, no one will remember what happened yesterday, much less a week ago.
- Karoli
Leo, everyone is entitled to get angry when core beliefs and standards are insulted. Just hit the mute button on twitlive next time! Bombs away!!! :)
- Wookie
However weird it may sound, it was good to see Leo being able to get upset like that. Just proves he can be human too. Was wondering if he's entire mind worked in a G rating ;) Also proves how passionate he is about his work. And good on being such a gentleman afterwards! Good going Leo!
- Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal
That's Gracious of you Leo. Time will heal. I think both of you work so hard the stress just mounts. I do wish the show could keep its edginess but not get personal. Debate the issues. You did have a right to be angry, I'm not questioning that. I just wish the show in general got some kind of professional adjustment, if that's the right word, have the structure of Twit where there is debate but it doesn't get personal
- Stephen Pickering
Oh dear. Still, in all these years it's about the 1st time. Almost superhuman not to have exploded before.
- David Jones
I had never been on Friend Feed before (only heard so much about it on TWiT); however, when all this went down, it was the first place I thought to turn. I finally "get" the hype.
- Jason Beck
Jay: Link to Gillmor Gang - http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com
- Karoli
Leo works too hard. He's there too much. I wonder who would be an ideal fill in, if he could take more time off?
- Stephen Pickering
Leo accepts! http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Chris
Wow, I think that posting the incomplete episode complete with Leo's rant/breakdown/whatever it's called is just totally disrespectful to him. Leo's a person who's never had these kinds of breakdowns in the past and I don't think it deserves to be publicized in the GG feed.
- Paulius G
Paulius: Leo regrets blowing up as loud as he did, but he has no problem with that video clip
- David Lloyd
I'm staying out of this one - let me say though, I wouldn't be following TechCrunch if it weren't for Leo - Leo has serious authority here.
- Jesse Stay
Leo didn't break down. He got pissed off. And rightly so. He said what he wanted to say, and he's resolved the matter. Don't see the problem.
- Karoli
Arrington has and always will be an asshole. I don't read his blog and certainly won't start now. He has made some bad moves in the past, but this one might be an endgame. There is absolutely no reason to bait like that when someone is trying to provide a review. Reviews are never completely unbiased, but Leo always discloses and provides the most unbiased reviews that a sensible human can.
- Bob Blunk
Paulius: I think Leo more than anyone is aware of the consequences of being live all the time.
- Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal
Heck, I wouldn't be on Twitter if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't have a Mac if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't have built my own PC if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't be using Digg if it weren't for Leo. I wouldn't have an iPhone if it weren't for Leo. I'm dead serious in that - Leo has had serious influence in the things I've tried over the last 5 years or so.
- Jesse Stay
Leo, I wouldn't worry about it. Arrington Deserved it! As long as I've listened to your shows, I know that you won't push a product unless you think it's ACTUALLY good, and that if a product sucks, you'll either not talk about it, or trash it if it deserves it. Arrington was just being a dick, and While I wouldnt have shut the whole show down, there's a good chance I would have kicked him off myself.
- Justin Flood @justinflood
As far a the show goes, if/when they have another one, I MIGHT EVEN WATCH IT NOW. This is some good advertisement over this all be it not expected. Might be good to put someone on there with more of a moderation roll though.
- Fake Elmo
Do you think Leo will ask Mike for a preview of the Crunchpad???
- Darren Rowley
Just read Michael Arrington's explanation and frankly, I'd like to hear about the "story that is brewing about favoritism at Palm" and TechCruch's analysis of reviews. It's obviously an important and sensitive issue if it engenders situations like we have just witnessed. Leo, bring Michael back and let everyone talk about disclosure issues, favoritism, and gadget reviews from everyone's perspective and experience. Your audience will benefit from a rational discussion of this important issue.
- Michael Ritter
I just watched your video with Mike Arrington. You just made a new fan. :D Hope you enjoy your pre.
- Jason Pope
I can see why Leo blew up. Arrington is trashy and seemed to question the integrity of someone who actually cares. Not sure why Leo was on Gilmore Gang in the first place. Not the place for real interest/ideas.
- Darrel Davis
When you have all these strong willed experts on one show, in a timed enviroment it could cause for some "good tv" as the saying goes.
- Fake Elmo
love ya leo.
- Mark Outten
just one more thing...PLEASE don't let this be a publicity stunt!
- Bob Blunk
It's nice to get a realtime issue in some sense, to work loose the shaky brickwork. the web is a wild and wonderful place. Although real emotions are involved, the live nature of the content does make certain people respond differently.
- Steve Ford
I've trird to watch the Gilmor Gang, but can't get through it. It doesn't fit the TWiT lineup. Leo, let it go, you have better programs that you can do instead.
- Brian Cagle
Leo would never waste fbomb for publicity
- Art
I like Steve, but I agree with Brian - it's a different audience, not TWiT's
- Jesse Stay
Admittedly I don't listen to Leo live very often but after many years of following Leo around the web it was actually very amusing to see and hear the foul language I'm not used to hearing outta Leo. Way to go Leo, I appreciate you sticking up for yourself! :)
- Ryan
This just in: I just talked to Dave Winer and he made the most important point: what about the show? I called Steve Gillmor and he's going to try to reassemble the troops (including Mike) and we're going to try this again. I'm on my way into the studio now.
- Leo Laporte
YAY!
- David Lloyd
Leo needs content. While Twit Live is based on the brand of "Leo", he does allow over voices like PC Perspective and This Week in Fun to use his facilities. He has full editorial control on what he has on his network, and that is his right. I only stated to listen to GG after it came to Twit. So maybe Steve expanded his listener base, but maybe he does not need too. That question is up to Steve
- Darryl Adams
Restarting BitGravity feed :)
- Bill Heslin
:)
- Nicholas James
Leo you're a good man
- Jesse Stay
Wow, thats great Leo. Looking forward to it :)
- Lasse Reiersen-Gravdal
Lol, god he loves his community doesnt he?
- David Lloyd
_serious_ realtime shit
- Amyloo
Leo suffers for his audience, now it is out turn :-)
- Darryl Adams
gotta love live real time.
- Steve Ford
Yes! :)
- Adnan
<3 real time xx wish my friends got it
- David Lloyd
Can the bandwidth support this episode? Ha!
- Michael Kaiser
Then I'll stay up for a while (it's 2:14 am here)
- Willem (@wim66) ☠
Incredibly admiral thing to do, a lot can be learned from this whole series of events.
- Jason Beck
I've watched Leo "alter" his views going from the pc shows to the mac shows, but I have never felt Leo was or ever would give a positive/negative review to something based upon getting a freebee.
- Brian Cagle
Can we get Dave Winer on the show too?! :)
- Adnan
Ride the trike in Leo. It will give you some peaceful time.. :) Your the best
- Bill Heslin
Lol, someone posted Keyboard Cat playing off Arrington but it got deleted on Youtube
- zephyrlily
we want david winer
- David Lloyd
why would youtube delete a keyboard cat vid?
- Bwana ☠
Cool :-) I did remember last week you were a little peed about the trolling nature of Mike and I agreed then and more now Good on ya
- O W
I think the author deleted it @Bwana
- zephyrlily
Wait, who's on their way into the studio right now?
- Colin
scoble you going to be ontine for round two?
- Steve Ford
Dialogue is good to work through an incident such as this. I'm glad that Leo and Mike responded so soon afterward. Apologies came quick and bitterness didn't have time to set in, which could have caused enmity between them for years to come. I've learned to be careful with strong initial reactions because I may not be totally understanding where the other person is coming from, and that is the source of so many of these kinds of problems.
- Allen Blair
a rerun of futures in Biotech Colin
- Bill Heslin
The best thing about this video is about 50 seconds in when Loren Feldman realizes Leo Isn't joking around as he bows his head and goes into his happy place while mommy and daddy fight: http://img.skitch.com/2009060...
- BryanSchuetz
Oh nevermind...
- Bill Heslin
Lol :/
- Colin
hehehe
- Bill Heslin
Colin: I think they're trying to get everyone back.
- Nicholas James
If you guys put this back together, you guys rock, seriously.
- Colin
Steve: I gotta drive up to the city, so will be calling in from my new Prius.
- Robert Scoble
This video has "Keyboard Cat" written all over it!
- Chris
Serenity Now. Serenity Now.... :-)
- Jeff Weber
LOL Jeff
- Bill Heslin
chris can't we get like a keyboard penguin or something.. you know something fresh...
- Steve Ford
I'm so thankful that R. Scoble invented "real time web"! I'm joshin' :) Unless he actually did.
- Michael Kaiser
Michael: Robert invented the 2010 web: http://scobleizer.com/2009...
- Nicholas James
You mean R. Scoble didn't? I'm so confused now...
- Bill Heslin
I thought Al Gore invented it?
- John Brazel
There goes the Bulleit Bourbon?
- TunisianGuy
I'm sure Leo finished the Bulleit on the way home TunisianGuy :)
- Bill Heslin
@BryanSchuetz ROTFLOL
- Adam Turetzky
don't know about him, but I am done, that's for sure. These apologies took too long to come imho
- TunisianGuy
Welcome back Leo
- Bill Heslin
I was missing the show until I saw the article on Techmeme, yay!
- Ryan Massie
The show must go on http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Amyloo
I think your plant is upset Leo :)
- Bill Heslin
Back live woooo!
- Moobie
live.twit.tv
- TunisianGuy
yayyyyy
- TunisianGuy
Someone with mad skills please mashup the GG video with keyboard cat to the tune of "Saturday Nights All Right for Fighting" by Elton John. Ohhh were back live, cool.
- John Brazel
Part2
- Willem (@wim66) ☠
Very civilized! Way to get it together guys! Job done! :-)
- Moobie
LOL. This is better than TV
- Bwana ☠
we need a minute please
- Tina Chase Gillmor
@Bill Lol @ the plant
- zephyrlily
I guarantee half the TWiT fans have their recorders going now :)
- Bwana ☠
Bwana - Lol! :-)
- Moobie
Half Bwana...I would think at least 99.9% :)
- Bill Heslin
I upped the first part here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... and will do the same with this part
- Jack
Was this the "new media" equivalent of O'Reilly's great "F$&k it, let's do it live" outburst? (not to compare Leo to Bill as Leo Rules)
- Tim Hughes
I blame the Pre Leo...
- Bwana ☠
Personally Leo...I enjoy the show. Hope it continues it is very intelligent 99% of the time. There is a lot to be said about the show...and all that goes on on it.
- Kevin Hart
keyboard cat is uploading again...i deleted it because the quality was too poor
- Thomas McGivern
I love it, it makes me remember the good ol' days of IRC.
- Ryan Massie
Love ya Leo. Takes a big man to own up to a mistake (understandable as it may be)
- Scott Edwards
Take 2
- Bill Heslin
Now the show will be tame :)
- Bwana ☠
I can just picture keyboard cat waiting for the cue
- zephyrlily
lol
- Chris
LOL stop zephyr...I'll be laughing the whole show
- Bwana ☠
GTALK
- Nicholas James
You are a class act Leo!
- invariant - farewell FF
Arrington's "apology" was merely a bunch of excuses ("I wasn't watching the video, blah, blah") I don't come to TWIT for confrontational tatics like Arrington's. Dialogue and discussion -- yes. Being a jerk -- no.
- Joel R
LEO: I was the one who quickly posted the YouTube video (MPB326) and I felt kind of bad about it in a way. I have been following you since your Tech TV days and love what you are about. I think you were totally in the right in this situation although overall I think it was a misunderstanding. Message me if you want the link to add an annotation to the video.
- Mike Bracco
Yes, mike's audio is fine.
- Cliff Gerrish
leo, you are great.
- Oldengrey (Jay)
Well done both Leo and Mike
- Kim Landwehr
Perhaps there is hope for the Middle East.
- Karoli
seems to have lost audio - anyone else?
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
hiccup
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Leo, I think you overreacted a tad but I reckon I would've too, Arrington was way to quick and aggressive in his questioning. At least you guys made up.
- Marco Ho
Tina, recording part ii
- Cliff Gerrish
What Calacanis incident?
- Chris
Well done Mike - I have high respect for Arrington after this.
- Jesse Stay
I like Arrington's style.
- Colin
thanksCliff
- Tina Chase Gillmor
it's not the questions Mike asks, it's the snark-laden tone.
- Karoli
Questioning a man's integrity without any justifiable reason is an insult and Leo is absolutely correct for what he did.
- Paul
Tina, the first part is here if you need it http://www.archive.org/downloa...
- Jack
karoli, re: snark, which is what made the contrast with the nice in memoriam so jolting
- Amyloo
He never apologizes.... explains his attitude.
- zephyrlily
keyboard cat is back up!! http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Thomas McGivern
Gotta love Feldman! RT: The best thing about this video is about 50 seconds in when Loren Feldman realizes Leo Isn't joking around as he bows his head and goes into his happy place while mommy and daddy fight: http://img.skitch.com/2009060... - BryanSchuetz
- 1x29
This is one of the most amazing interviews I've ever heard. I am learning so much, and gaining a ton of respect for Arrington after this.
- Jesse Stay
No doubt about it, these guys are heavyweights.
- Colin
The same props go to Leo for being such a great interviewer.
- Jesse Stay
Steve is angry :(
- David Lloyd
can't blame Steve for being angry. A lot of crap was posted on this stream that was unfair to him and to Tina.
- Karoli
Thanks Karoli ... tough few days
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Scobey! Welcome to the show!
- Colin
Yay, we have ourselves a show
- Robert
Jack, are you recording?
- Robert
I wish Mike would open up more - he really is a good guy inside, and has great intentions.
- Jesse Stay
moving right along...
- Brad Kligerman
yep, this part will be up at http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... later
- Jack
So what's happening in tech?
- Colin
This week in therapy
- Thomas McGivern
group hug
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
Leo vs Steve is coming up next...
- Chris
Thanks Jack, all those missing these live shows thank you
- Robert
Good thing Scoble isn't on a Pre with Sprint. Cause we could end the debate on Pre, or Sprint right now cause his signal is cutting out...Can ya hear me now? LOL
- Bill Heslin
As a journalist you have to ask tough questions
- Jesse Stay
This is even better then a 2-2 tie in the 12th... oh yeah, the Dodgers won that one.
- Brad Kligerman
Robert=Fuzzy goofball...lol
- Bill Heslin
I'm glad I stayed up (it's 2am here) reading the FF comments and TC comments - I nearly went to bed thinking the show would be taking another hiatus
- Jack
Steve has a good wife.
- Colin
I seriously cannot believe this has happened. Kudos to you, Leo and definitely Mike for not throwing the F You's back and apologizing so quickly. I am happy that these two have a respect for each other and tech to and us, to come back, publicly apologize and try to continue to do the show. I'm almost teary eyed!
- Lise
Leo's in his "battle stance"
- Colin
Is this a kumbaya moment or another shit storm?
- Brad Kligerman
Leo doesnt need Gilmore's Gang!
- Chris
Chris, networks have interdependencies
- Karoli
We shall see.
- 321
Wow, I just dropped in on some serious stress!
- Aaron T. Harvey
Robert remember this is Our community. Leo Gives us a voice and we use it.
- Andrew Johnson
I'm not saying everything that is said is correct or needs to be said though
- Andrew Johnson
Andrew, so you're saying that because I am a GG fan from way, way back, I'm not entitled to speak, or be heard?
- Karoli
For GG to work on Twit network, Steve has to retake center stage on the video feed... the production has to visually and audiably recenter around Steve.
- Brad Kligerman
of course i'm not saying that Karoli
- Andrew Johnson
I wonder if this video will go viral like Santelli's?
- Stephen Pickering
Excellent point Brad
- Robert
My point, Andrew, is that Steve has a community, too
- Karoli
I do agree with Brad.
- Karoli
I'm just saying that the show came to our commmunity so we get a voice too
- Andrew Johnson
Yeah, I think out of respect for Steve, Leo should have maybe left, but not pulled the plug
- Stephen Pickering
I'm listening to the restart of the show with all the kiss and make up. Bottom line GG doesn't belong on TWiT and should go somewhere else.
- Steve
Steve needs to stop reading this chat
- Robert
I agree, I think he's taking it too literally
- zephyrlily
i think it is irc that he is speaking of
- Andrew Johnson
Wow, this makes for an interesting Saturday online.
- Verbal
Steve Gilmor please dont take yourself so seriously
- earl wallace
Oh that's not true, Mike. I don't want a fight. The drama was interesting and so is this public apology but I want a show about tech, not flame wars. I can go read youtube comments for that.
- Lise
Lots of respect for the content, but seems like its about the people instead of the ideas way too often.
- Joel Asaro
FTR I like every single person on this call. I find this show incredibly interesting because they're all truly opening up. I want this to continue if every episode can be like this.
- Jesse Stay
Pretty hard not to read the chat....Steve has always been tuned into viewers' responses.
- Karoli
We don't have a problem with you Steve, thanks for putting this show together.
- Colin
Leo, the drama is the show.
- Karoli
i'm confused... leo added drama too
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
This is not going to end well......
- David Peralta
If I wanted Meet the Press, I'd turn on David Gregory
- Karoli
Ryan, I can't believe you're even suggesting that this has anything to do with ad revenue
- Derek Erdmann
This is the most riveting show on any network I've seen in a while, it's genuine.
- Matthew
Uh Oh
- Bill Heslin
Uh oh, the Middle East won't reconcile
- Karoli
Gillmore Gang has value but Steve cant handle the spotlight...welcome to radio, tv, etc if you put yourself out there you need to expect this to some extent
- Gary Gannon
I don't get Leo's rap on the 'drama'. Ageed Karoli
- Brad Kligerman
Ohhhh....
- Amyloo
Woah - where did Dave Winer come into this?
- Jesse Stay
internal angst
- zephyrlily
I remember drama on the GG 2 years ago, its not all from the "chat" or even just Dave Winer...
- Robert
the content is what it is because of the conflict. It is.
- Karoli
Gilmore Gang has always been about conflicting personalities in tech... Leo, you should have known that when you let Steve do his show on TWiT
- Ryan Merket
Everything is political. People are passionate. It is what creates pearls
- Karoli
Steve's feelings are hurt. I think because what Leo did, by closing the show, really made Steve feel like he wasn't in control. Okay, I get that. I hope they can resolve this now with Steve.
- Lise
'do without the drama' Steve Gillmor. Leo has got to understand that statement.
- Brad Kligerman
Steve is a gateway drug, like marijuana.
- Colin
I think nobody's better than Leo. But geez, once again it seems his ego's in the way.
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
We need Steve to hook all these people up!
- Colin
Steve us wrong about networks. This is clearly Leo's network.
- Scott Wilder
talking about each other is part of the attraction. It is one way to figure out how people think
- Karoli
We don't want to see you dead, Mike
- Stephen Pickering
It's like watching Crossfire, but with a bunch of tech geeks
- zephyrlily
There's drama because this show gets bogged down in personality fights.
- Joel R
We're not crazy!! *twitches*
- Robert
the content and the passion are indivisible
- Hilary Talbot
I would never spit on you, Mike. And I'm proud of you for how you've handled all this.
- Lise
SteveGillmor - Based on the comments in this thread, I suggest you come back to uStream
- Karoli
I <3 you all guys
- Jesse Stay
@Jesse The show is happening now because of a conversation that Leo had with Dave Winer according to Leo's post in this FF thread
- 321
Sounds like they have patched things up.
- Mike Doeff
Mike, it the whole anonymity thing... we don't want you dead. people just shout because they think you won't hear.
- Jan Zimak
@321 I don't understand how that has caused drama though
- Jesse Stay
Man they are really slamming us here on FriendFeed
- Stephen Pickering
Underwear 12 y/os? wtf?
- Ryan Merket
What if I'm in my undies AND rational still? heh
- Lise
I haven't read anything here that was like life threatening
- Stephen Pickering
OMG, you guys have a show where you are critical of your subjects, you get heated and personal sometimes yet blame us in chat for doing the same sometimes too? It is our fault? We are the bad guy? lololol
- Andrew Johnson
I think Leo should "man up" and say the quality of the content isn't enough to keep GG on TWiT.
- Scott Wilder
This is why social profiles are a good thing - building a presence that you have to be responsible for is just as critical for the web as it is in person.
- Derek Erdmann
I haven't seen much stupidity on friendfeed actually; few insensitive comments perhaps in this stream but nothing much really
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
This chat is infinately more mature and constructive than the IRC chat is
- Robert
Is Robert on an AT&T network? Is that how bad it is?
- Stephen Pickering
i think leo and mike have made up, but steve is the one with the attitude now
- Dano Hart
Please no one tell the IRC chat about this chat
- Jesse Stay
That IRC chat is a disaster
- Mike Doeff
Being in the chat room is a bit like being at Comic Con, you always think YOU'RE the normal one, but everyone looks a bit crazy to outsiders.
- Aaron T. Harvey
I think more of the 12 year olds are on the irc, Robert. heh They're not quite FFing yet.
- Lise
Jesse, why does Arrington slam the FriendFeed chat so much? I've never read terrible things here
- Stephen Pickering
No, @Dano, Steve is the one that still has something to work out. He's trying to save his show.
- Brad Kligerman
Of course Scoble would say it is easy to block people here
- Jack
Many of us here are on all chats simultaneously
- earl wallace
Brad, Steve's show will go on whether it's here or some where else
- Karoli
Ultimately Steve is right. If he doesn't like Leo's ability to control the show because he controls the network, then GG should go somewhere else.
- Scott Wilder
Stephen, I'm not sure, but this particular chat has been pretty anti-Arrington before this current live stream. He may be referring to that. FF in general has been pretty anti-Arrington from what I've seen.
- Jesse Stay
You guys have made that show, you're doing it right now.
- Colin
you make it sound like it's all at Leo's command. It's STEVE'S show.
- Karoli
can we PLEASE talk about the Palm Pre. I'm drunk already
- TunisianGuy
gillmorgang is valuable to me... I waited the whole week for this. Their are other people on this thread who also find it valuable. I don't understand why there is a question as to whether it should be on the network or not. If people don't like it, they can skip it and watch the other shows that they do like.
- Adnan
Just missed the GG incident this afternoon, but got to see FF unfurl the story (and the youtube replay). I'm not going to weigh in on the personalities because I just discovered GG this week...I was going to start listening for energetic and insightful banter. Now, I have been thinking about what happened today and about the back-and-forth I've read here. From the few podcasts I've...
more...
- Jason Miller
why do you want Gillmor Gang to be TWIT II?
- Karoli
Seems to me that the back story is that Arrington was jealous that he did not get a Pre and wanted to spoil the fun. Pretty simple. Getting lectured from Arrington on disclosure ethics was the last straw for Leo.
- Jim Posner
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I like this show because it's powerful personalities.
- Colin
I think the debates and snarky comments are what makes the show great
- Gary Gannon
Jim, I think it's a misunderstanding more than anything from what it sounds like
- Jesse Stay
why is there a problem with drama? These guys are passionate
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Robert I think is friends with everyone. I don't know if I've ever heard of anyone he hates. He's good that way.
- Jesse Stay
Tina, I have no problem with drama. I'm not in love with SNARK
- Karoli
Jesse, no, Mike really was attacking Leo's credibility, and I'm not anti Mike. I like Arrington
- Stephen Pickering
If I want drama I'll turn on TNT, because apparently they know drama.
- Scott Wilder
The drama is the reason I listen to GG, and not TWiT
- Jack
Gillmor's talking but no one can hear.
- Sprague D
On TWiT, the drama is replaced by the outstanding interactions between the members of the panel. Debating on the topic (like Dvorak v. everybody) is very different from getting personal, which I think is what happened here.
- Derek Erdmann
Gilmore is always angry, aggressive and unpleasant, and he fosters that. Period. It's not the conversation, it's the tone. It's unfriendly and it's not Leo. If Gilmore wants that as his show, cool. But I'm with Leo in that I don't think it fits well with Twit.
- Libertine
Ohh! Awwww. First time in a while to FF and I thought I could catch GG (kinda tough, just look at the sub-domain on TC; I thing they went "underground" for a reason). I appreciate both sides of the story. Everyone should calm down and join my new movement: What Would Spock Do? or WWSD?
- coldbrew
Karoli - I think you hint at the problem SteveG is discovering. It's Steve's show on Leo's network... using Leo's live audience, and Leo's live chat... Steve's seeing *Leo's* network react, and not seeing *his* audience's feedback. As a result: he's offended.
- tollie williams
Drama is fine, Leo just doesn't like it when people call him out on getting free/pre-released stuff, and saying "Love it! Totally impressed..." -- which he should have said "Palm sent me a 7 day loander to try it out, and I love it, totally impressed"
- Ryan Merket
I think if we got Feldman on here he could solve this for us: http://img.skitch.com/2009060...
- BryanSchuetz
All I can say is I have gained a completely new respect for Mike Arrington from this show. He manned up to this one, misunderstandings were cleared up, and I see him as an entirely new person after this. I give him my respect on this one.
- Jesse Stay
I'm not a regular listener of GG, but the times that I've tuned in seemed like there was drama and people were a bit flaming. I like shows with less drama than GG. I'm not sure who has reason. I don't think that this is black and white. Having the show squeaky clean wouldn't be interesting, but the drama just gets annoying and simply delays the tech.
- Paulius G
good point ryan merket
- Dano Hart
Moral of the story: Don't call out Leo if he holds the "off" button
- Ryan Merket
@tollie very good insight
- earl wallace
Stay: Agreed.
- coldbrew
Audiences long for access to this show.
- Colin
This is all so very self-involved and silly.
- Christopher A Carr
@Ryan that's not the case at all
- Harvey Birdman
So, I missed the setup of this call. Is Scoble the moderator? Why is he on? :)
- tollie williams
Leo having Steve turned down is EXACTLY what is wrong with the show in its current form
- Jack
There's a difference between a spirited discussion and flaming.
- Mike Doeff
+1 Colin
- Brad Kligerman
You all need to *come back* and make up live. [EDIT: I mean "real time"]
- coldbrew
Hug it out guys.
- Mike Doeff
Jack, agreed.
- Karoli
I agree with Gillmor , no need to change the show... go to Mevio where the ADULTS are
- John Hillestad
"With all due respect". Got it.
- Sprague D
The show would fit the network if it doesn't disclosing free/pre-released phones.
- Ryan Merket
Ryan you've made that point a few times already now
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
Steve and Leo I think have different audiences. It all comes down to if it's worth merging those audience.
- Jesse Stay
I'm happy that Leo cares about us as a community. The normal, non drooling ones, of course.
- Lise
Ryan missed a 1 hour Palm Pre unboxing where Leo stated about 20 times it was review Unit...but that's ok.
- Bwana ☠
I think we might be seeing the end of the GG/Twit collab. Steve is realising its not working. Leo seems conflicted, he wants to keep the content on the show, but he is not comfortable with it. But Leo does an excellent job of hosting the show. I fear for the continuity and quality of the GG if its not on Leo's network
- Robert
Without a community there's no one to consume your content.
- Aaron T. Harvey
"I dont care about the community"-Steve Gillmor. My respect has risen for Mike Arrington and lowered for Steve Gillmor tonight.amazing
- Dano Hart
Dano, how about the full quote? What he said was "I do what I think is important to do"
- Karoli
Can you imagine a professional broadcaster on TV or radio talking about their audience this way?
- Sprague D
It kinda hurts when the broadcaster publicly advises dosent care about his listeners
- David Peralta
I think my favorite Gillmor Gang episode was the one where Marc Canter kept showing a big bowl full of marijuana buds on his video screen every chance he could get. That was classic!
- Thomas Hawk
"those people who don't like reality"... ok. same to ya. :)
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Steve please do this on a closed call
- earl wallace
Steve is just hurt. And I think he's not feeling respected.
- Lise
Leo just pointed out my entire current frustration... why the hell is the show not post-published if Steve indeed feels that people -should- be able to Fast forward through it
- Robert
"I dont care about the community" implies "I mostly care about the content'
- Brad Kligerman
@Dano agree, if Steve doesnt care about the community at all then why put it out? Just talk to your buddies on the phone.
- Gary Gannon
Just produce a show where you argue about tech and not about each other. Outside of this incident, it's all very self-indulgent anyway.
- bobrudge
Bwana: This is looking for justifications while already having one's side chosen
- coldbrew
I can be passionate while avoiding drama. It's an acquired skill. Kinda like laughing without shooting milk through your nose.
- Bwana ☠
Interesting to see if there is any brand impact to all of this..Seems they all have the Martha Stewart problem with the name and brand tightly coupled.
- Jim Posner
This show is going no where now
- Jesse Stay
It looks like the show will be moving to a different 'network'.
- Verbal
This has been brewing for a while
- Mike Doeff
i think the community can create content,and help and push content. So saying you don't care about the community,is not saying your care more about the content
- Dano Hart
If Steve wants to move the show off Twit then he should, although he shouldn't make the decision RIGHT NOW he should make it after the show and after careful consideration. Although I don't see why it can't stay on Twit.
- Nicholas James
Anella: Yes ;)
- coldbrew
The problem is Leo can turn off the show
- Jack
The show can go on with Leo
- Bwana ☠
The thing you all should know about Steve's community comment? He does care about the community. Do you think people who don't care bother with discussions on FriendFeed? All he said was that ultimately HE does what HE feels is important
- Karoli
dude bwana,shooting milk thru your nose IS a skill.hehe
- Dano Hart
Rename it to The Leo Laporte Gang! Thats what it is!
- Chris
Leo you can build up TWiT Sunday and then split it soon into Sat/Sun
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
The show can go on without Leo
- Bwana ☠
Jack: Yes, broadcasting live via IP is so difficult these days. It would take millions!
- coldbrew
Steve is just too hurt right now. I feel bad for him. But he needs to cool down
- Lise
Bwana, yes, but can it go on with AND without Leo?
- Jesse Stay
I am Reviled
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Also wouldnt it be up to Mike if Gillmor Gang stays on Twit after all they're located over at: http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/ ;)
- Nicholas James
Why does Steve do a show if he doesnt care if people watch it or not?
- Chris
I think Steve is actually on the right track. Steve wants COMPLETE control. He can't on TWiT
- Scott Wilder
Jesse - I see what you did there. Wait..No I don't
- Bwana ☠
Chris, because he believes the content is important.
- Karoli
Steve works for Mike, BTW.
- Oldengrey (Jay)
Steve you know more than anyone else the internet mirrors real life. Please understand the chat in the same light.
- earl wallace
No one is dependant on anyone else. Steve can organise the show on his own wherever he wants, like he did for a long time.
- Robert
Steve should put it on his own network and ask Leo back as a guest.
- Derek Erdmann
Gillmor could take this live on his own with minimal help. Lots of people *sitting* here could do it in an hour or less.
- coldbrew
Bwana, I'm confused!
- Jesse Stay
If Steve does want complete control then he does need to move it. You can't have complete control when Leo sits at the helm
- Lise
We Collegiates are Reviled
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
Who would have thought an hour ago that Gillmor would be the one to come out of this the worst - seems to have taken an ego hit and wants everyone to remember it's 'his' show. Pretty pathetic performance.
- bobrudge
Leo was liberal with those F bombs : )
- Mike Doeff
collegial is for talk shows, radical is for Gillmor
- Brad Kligerman
Jesse: I think Bwana is referring to the fact that you said can it "work AND without Leo" at the same time...didn't you mean OR ;)
- Nicholas James
LOL Mike. Seriously. I really like Arrington a lot more now. I can't believe he stepped up and handled this so awesomely. "F you. F you. F you. Bye" haha
- Lise
Yeah - Leo's got it - Gillmor Gang needs to decide what it wants to be when it grows up. What's the overall purpose and premise behind the show?
- Jesse Stay
You can't take it with you has never been more true.
- Aron Michalski
Steve is coming off a little bit arrogant, though rightfully so in some ways. Honestly, I think that Leo should stay on GG, but take it off of TWiT. If Steve wants control, he should get it.
- TeraDyne Azurepaw
oh now steves crackin the jokes.alright!
- Dano Hart
@Steve ROFL. Looks like we hit a resolution.
- Ryan Merket
Stay: It's that there is no premise and it's some people Gillmor knows and likes talkin shit.
- coldbrew
stop trying to classify things, Leo, and go with the flow. It's been kinda working since Gillmor Gang has been here.
- Brad Kligerman
Jesse, I agree w/ you (and Leo) that Mike has proven to be a different person that I previously thought he was. Silver lining here might be that these types of 'misunderstandings' are headed off before they boil over in the future.
- Chris Heath
I think the balance of the show is fine. I think Steve just wants to be the main face on Gillmor Gang instead of on a monitor in the background ;)
- Nicholas James
Someone just asked me this question: if this is gillmor, why is laporte seeming to host? (1st time on GG)
- Karoli
coldbrew, I think with that, Leo's taking risk then. Steve's got to state what the show is for it to make sense on Leo's network. That's nothing against Steve's show - it's just in conflict with the organization of Leo's network.
- Jesse Stay
I think we forget that these guys have real lives, real problems, and stress that can leak into this show.
- Mike Doeff
932 PM GEORGIA hi is dave glad yall are back on
- daveccorey
Karoli, because it's on Leo's network
- Lise
It's kind of surreal to hear this thing play out while in my car. Thank you, iPhone app. Can the Pri do that? :-)
- Joel R
LOL - Last words out of Mike's mouth, "and I got a Techmeme headline out of it"
- Jesse Stay
Steve hinted at the beginning at people being rude saying 'the old guy' should get off etc; I think he has good reason to be not happy if that's the case
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
Joel, WInMo can do that, with Skyfire.
- Christopher A Carr
Can someone please turn this drama into a 30 second video for YouTube :0
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
I definitely have a new respect for all of the people on this videocast after this. Well done all..
- Bill Heslin
Props for you guys going live with this. Way to stay professional and sort this stuff out.
- Derek Erdmann
okay, real last words out of Mike's mouth, "Go Leo!"
- Jesse Stay
It's completely recorded Leo :)
- Bill Heslin
I love so much that they brought this back out live to do it.
- Lise
Who in here has this recorded?
- Jesse Stay
I'm kind of amazed at about how transparent these guys are being. I appreciate that.
- Mike Doeff
Whoo! GO JACK!
- Robert
No offense Steve, but welcome to the real-time web
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: someone mentioned before that they recorded the first one and will be recording the second one. Update: http://friendfeed.com/jackx1 said he was going to ;)
- Nicholas James
I'll put this up at http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
Welcome to the interwebs Steve
- Gary Gannon
Leo, remember that people can scrub back on the BitGravity feed and then screen-capture or record the audio.
- Paulius G
Christopher: yeah, I heard about SkyFire on Windows Weekly. Sounds pretty cool.
- Joel R
I knew it would be a tame show after that
- Bwana ☠
LOL Leo. Awwww @ the loooove
- Lise
I feel all warm and fuzzy inside now... :)
- Bill Heslin
That was actually pretty interesting, maybe we'll see a This Week in Drama soon.
- 321
I learned a lot from this. As I said before I have a newfound respect for both Leo and Mike Arrington.
- Jesse Stay
I wanna hug all my gadgets. Yay tech!
- Lise
i'm hungry.whos buyin? hehe
- Dano Hart
This is TWID!
- Joel R
is the bar open yet?
- Andrew Johnson
TWiD - nice!
- Aaron T. Harvey
After all of that i do have more respect for Mike now, I think alot has been learned today
- David Peralta
@leo it always good to hear an opinion that you don't hear agree with. you can't have good without evil.
- Jan Zimak
Don't worry Leo we saw the names before you covered it ;)
- Nicholas James
Yes Andrew Serving Martinis as we speak...what can I get you? LOL
- Bill Heslin
Everyone has a shadow, the trick is learning how to give the shadow recognition privately, so that it doesn't come out publicly like it did today
- Stephen Pickering
And 3 hours later we get the Pre review
- Jack
Judging by Leo's little presentations, the Pre interface seems pretty slow
- Bwana ☠
sluggish yes Bwana...
- Bill Heslin
that would drive me nuts
- Bwana ☠
wait until Monday for any iPhone announcements
- Derek Erdmann
Nice UI - a little 'roundy/pudgy' though. Is it comfortable to hold?
- Aaron T. Harvey
Aaron, yeah looks kind of thick
- Mike Doeff
Right, it's not as fluid as an iPhone. It's ages better than any Windows mobile or Palm OS phone, but still not too close to the iPhone. However, competition is great. And this hopefully means more interesting features in the future from the iPhone.
- Paulius G
Bwana - Just got home and stumbled across this thread. What would we do without Friendfeed?!
- Charlie Anzman
UI looks great
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
Diabolical. Legal maelstrom becomes misdirection play, host catches fecal backlash.
- Aron Michalski
I always had issues with Palm freezing and it seems it's still doing it watching this
- Bill Heslin
Leo, how's the keyboard? Engadget and Gizmodo didn't seem too pleased with it
- Derek Erdmann
Steve/Tina - Hang in there. I'll touch base soon, hopefully we can connect next week
- Karoli
Charlie - we'd be all over Google looking for details :)
- Bwana ☠
Aaron: I've had a 'roundy/pudgy' phone in the form of a Samsung D500 and it was fine.
- Nicholas James
automatically syncs with google and facebook cool; look forward to seeing the keyboard too
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
I like that app dock
- Mike Doeff
I wonder how the battery life is with background apps running, since the drain on the battery is supposed to be one of the reasons that Apple won't allow background apps on the iPhone.
- 321
321 - Despite what Apple may say, it's a memory issue moreso than battery
- Bwana ☠
Is anyone going to post the make-up video?
- Jim Posner
looks like it needs a software update for that latency (that would bug the hell out of me)
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
321: Apple will be launching background apps soon ;) They blame battery's because their battery sucks.
- Nicholas James
Jim: http://friendfeed.com/jackx1 is going to be posting the recording of it
- Nicholas James
oh dear it's really not responding to Leo
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
that phone does look pretty slick
- Dano Hart
looks sluggish
- Robert
Robert: It's running alot of background apps though - using a lot of memory
- Nicholas James
anyone want some koolaid?
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
good point, maybe it'd be faster if he closed down bg apps
- Franz Sittampalam
No it doesn't matter..I noticed it when he first unboxed it
- Bwana ☠
It's sluggish all around
- Bwana ☠
bye
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Aaron: Update: Leo mentioned its comfortable to hold ;)
- Nicholas James
I don't love the UI, but the multitasking features look good. I'd like to see how this would work on more powerful hardware
- Derek Erdmann
Cya Tina!
- Nicholas James
I love great notification systems, and Palm has one
- Bwana ☠
Apple should hire the guy who hacked together Growl for iPhone :)
- Bwana ☠
Google Wave is going to be an interesting paradigm for mobile devices
- Scott Wilder
Definitely cool how notifications and things pop up on the screen
- Cory Roush
Thanks! My stream is stuttering so I'm getting gaps
- Aaron T. Harvey
induction charge....very cool
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
Oh, neat, that's the first time I've seen the gecko stuff on a real product!
- Derek Erdmann
flawless ustream for me today
- Preternat (Ken Cadby)
That charger is ingenius
- Jesse Stay
Nintendo kills me with that
- Bwana ☠
High Demand = Immediate Press Coverage = Creates More Demand = Then Supply Inital Demand Only = Cycle Repeats ;)
- Nicholas James
Jeff Cannata on TWiT?!
- Chris
It doesn't make sense...that's why it infuriates me
- Bwana ☠
Will it sync with Palm Desktop is the question I have
- Bwana ☠
For the die hard Palm'ers
- Bwana ☠
Did the Pre show up in iTunes? I heard it does...
- Aaron T. Harvey
Nicholas James : Unfortunately I'll only be posting audio :-(
- Jack
That'll come
- Bwana ☠
People have to update their code to catch the Pre's browser string
- Bwana ☠
do a quick test
- Bwana ☠
Call goog-411 and surf while you do it :)
- Bwana ☠
It's a good time to be a Phone lover
- Bwana ☠
It is "good competition" to the iPhone
- Jesse Stay
Pres, G1s, and iPhone giving Nokia and RIM some stiff stiff competition
- Bwana ☠
Poor Motorola
- Bwana ☠
Palm getting 2nd is good for version 1.0
- Nicholas James
monday it will be 3rd
- Byron McCollum
O_O dead pixel blues
- Bwana ☠
Storm 2 will be out in a few months...love the competition
- Bwana ☠
Personally I think phones with sliding keyboards are great.
- Nicholas James
his thumb covers 4 keys
- Bwana ☠
Best keyboard I've ever had was the T-Mobile MDA
- Jesse Stay
i could never use that analog keyboard
- Byron McCollum
Leo - if you're missing a Brazilian BBQ (we, the enlightened, call it a churrasco), then your priorities are certainly out of order. Get off that ball and in front of a skewer of meat ASAP. Grad yourself a caiparinha, too. You've earned one or four today.
- Jason Miller
I couldn't go back to a physical keyboard.
- Aaron T. Harvey
That's your "We'll do it live" moment Leo :)
- Bwana ☠
For me the apology will long out-live the video.
- Colin
LOL Bwana
- Lise
Nooooo
- Bwana ☠
Dont do it Leo
- Andrew Johnson
We could post your apology
- Aaron T. Harvey
Mostly you gain publicity, not negativity.
- Colin
I wouldn't :) :)
- Bwana ☠
Personally; I think you should make a video with the rant and then the appology immediately afterwards - that way they'll outlive each other ;)
- Nicholas James
Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer >:D
- Bwana ☠
do just the tribute and cut after that
- Andrew Johnson
Don't put it back on Leo. Only those of us following from the beginning will get it.
- Lise
Judge a man not by his friends, but by his enemies!
- Colin
we love you, Leo! And now, even Mike. Good job, Mike.
- Lise
We love ya Leo! Thanks for your support of us!
- Aaron T. Harvey
we love you too leo!
- Derek Erdmann
Go eat some meat Leo
- Bwana ☠
You deserve a few choice cuts
- Bwana ☠
See you in the morning, Leo.
- Lise
Man, one can only dream to have a setup like Leo :)
- Bwana ☠
Thanks guys!
- Nicholas James
Oh no, so much for the chat rooms slowing down tonight. Maybe I need to make some new macros for tonight :-P
- Andrew Johnson
now i want BBQ, thanks for another fun day everyone, tty tomorrow
- Andrew Johnson
this type of reality that we saw today is why the future of media on the web is so exciting .. we like real opinions and real emotions ... not the puffed and polished punditry that the mass media (blech) tries to spoon us on a daily basis. Keep doing the show Leo, we can take it, and the content is quality.
- Joe Magennis
Joe: It's up to Mike and Steve although, I agree that it should remain on Twit.
- Nicholas James
Don't worry Leo!!! Good on you!!!
- Andy
Haha, this is drama for geeks.
- Manuel Mas
Wow Leo never seen that side of you Mic really asked for it though, One thing i can say about Leo Laportes reviews and recommendations is they are always what he really believes......
- John Spencer
I think Arrington should be a guest on Sunday's TWIT.
- Jason
I'm listening to the later call where Leo says he feels like Arrington baits people and Arrington is not once denying that he does. Arrington also says he never apologizes which also says a lot about him. If you are wrong what is so hard about apologizing?
- jccalhoun
I belive we saw true real-time reality TV in it's truest form today.
- Allen Blair
Seems to me Friendfeed is the winner in this scenario
- chad cicconi
listening to this later call I get the feeling that some of these guys have a difficult time clearly expressing themselves. They are also overly hypersensitive but aren't aware of just how abrasive they themselves are. Get thee to a therapist.
- jccalhoun
Chad - Not sure I follow your logic but 1110 comments says a lot about the 'players' and an incredibly wide spectrum of opinions.
- Charlie Anzman
Gillmor is now blaming the chatroom for the tone of the show? How is that?
- jccalhoun
some people were being insensitive and they must have been paying attention because they got the feeling everyone concurred and thus the chatroom was a 'mob' of unified opinion;
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
Gillmore wants to take his ball and go home... Steve give it up and do your show we love you Man.
- Rock
Leo I hope that you keep this show. It is a bit different from other shows but the drama mostly is incidental to some really interesting discussions. I think a lot of it is direct styles of discussion between passionate personalities.
- Dominic
Perfect. Way to go.
- Byron Servies
I'm not a big fan of the drama! I don't care for the show. To much beckering! I don't believe it fits the TWIT network.
- MarK
They don't seem to understand Leo's point that you can be aggressive without taking shots at people.
- jccalhoun
Personally I felt the arguement for it not being on Twit is because Steve wants to be the main 'face' of Gillmor Gang regardless of being in FULL control of it or not. Although, I like the setup on Twit and think it is a great setup for Gillmor Gang which Steve will probably realise when he calms down - as he was pretty emotional on the show - although, remember it will be down to Mike (and Leo) at the end of the day and I don't think that they'll move it from Twit. Personally, I hope they don't.
- Nicholas James
If Steve wants to take his ball & go home then FINE...Arrington was wrong & Steve is wrong not to acknowledge it...Techcrunch has been hit time & time again for it's "ethics"..Maybe that's why Palm didn't send them a review unit? Why send one to someone who has pre-judged your product? Arrington the Bill O'Reilly of tech?
- David J. Garcia
from twhirl
Just watched the re-run. Leo, Gillmor Gang is the best show on your network and Dominic nailed the reason why there is drama and today we got the confirmation that you're only human too.
- Alberto Saavedra
Just dump the show. I'd rather watch reruns of your other shows that are all superior to what Steve has to offer anyway
- Andy
i want to go to techcrunch to see if Arrington has brought it up, but then I'd be giving that bastard pageviews.
- Dave Martin
dave: mike posted his side of the 'blow up' in a post titled "ouch" and he posted the youtube video too - it was kind of an apology, and leo accepted and apologized himself for his reaction - leo came back to the studio, got mike, steve, and scoble on and they talked it all out - hopefully everything is all good - it was re-running on the stream, i think that's over tho and the stream is on to the next re-run
- Chris Heath
Can I download the show somewhere?
- Wo
dave: in the 'second half' of the GG mike admitted that he only apologizes about once a year, and that he was being and asshole
- Chris Heath
Downloads available here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
i think mike and leo are cool now - but steve still seemed pissed that the audience doesn't read his mind or something - it's kind of akin to how steve get's irked by people asking about the podcast for the GG (which hasn't been available since april) - steve moving over to twit widend his audience and he probably feels a bit out of control of his show since the audience (live audience...
more...
- Chris Heath
as I stated earlier on Twitter I have blocked techcrunch via OpenDNS settings
- John Blanton
from twhirl
Listening to the continuing discussion of this blow up reminds me of the reaction of the NPR Planet Money blog commenters to Adam Davidson's interview with Elizabeth Warren. Long after the protagonists have calmed down and made peace, the internet seethes with rage. Where's the sense of perspective, friendfeed peeps?
- Matt Hall
Yeah, but he's unboxed a Pre at this point so... yeah :)
- Jay Cuthrell
Matt Hall -- it's only been like 4 hours since it happened. That's hardly "long after" ;-)
- jccalhoun
jccalhoun - In the real-time world it is ;)
- Matt Hall
If you go by Steve's logic and he doesn't care about the audience, then it doesn't matter if the plug is pulled. Don't think Leo minds banter, but just doesn't want the kind of p2p internal drama trolling you'd see on a World of Warcraft forum per say. Mike was def out of line, he apologized. Steve on the other hand seems like he needs to let "his" show go to Leo. Leo appears...
more...
- Jonathan Langdale
Here's the NPR Planet Money episode and blog post I mentioned, for those of you who can't get enough of the drama: http://www.npr.org/blogs...
- Matt Hall
Dave: Mike posted an appology on Techcrunch
- Nicholas James
Most entertaining GG moment ever!
- Douglas
I am a huge TWiT content listener, and the primary emotion I feel after all of the shows is typically enthusiasm, optimism, and general good feeling. GG often leaves me frustrated over lack of manners, respect, and behavior issues. Passion over topics cannot disguise the fact that the overriding tone is contrary to the rest of the TWiT shows. I think it does not fit.
- Amac
This one is rapidly heading for 1500 comment territory... http://friendfeed.com/search...
- Jay Cuthrell
Leo doesn't need to "take over" the Gillmor Gang, he has TWiT among others which I think with the cross-pollination of some elements of the GG (JC for example) and exclusion of others (MA), is almost as good an experience. What amazes me is that Arrington still wonders why he polarises so many people...
- Hamish MacEwan
Just woke up from a Nice little Nap Has the GG been recorded somewhere? Really would like to see Todays GG 2.0
- Erle Stride
Erle: You can only see the voice recording but they are located here http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... thanks to http://friendfeed.com/jackx1
- Nicholas James
Thank you Nicholas
- Erle Stride
it doesn't surprise me in the least to hear a flippant remark from Arrington anytime a serious Apple competitor is brought into the conversation. Good for you Leo, he seriously needed a lesson in humility amd you delivered masterfully
- jcunwired
Anyone that Listens to MacBreak or TWiT knows that Leo has said he was going to buy a Pre a hundred times. Receiving a review copy means nothing, that is the industry standard practice. No apologies needed Leo, you were justified to be upset. Keep up the great work and you have my support!
- John - becomingamac.com
I think Leo should either pull the show from TWiT or allow someone else (Colleen?) sit in his seat to produce the show. Steve and Leo have very different goals. Leo puts his focus on the quality of the product for the audience. Steve puts his emphasis on running the show and doesn't care as much about quality. Leo spends thousands on equipment and facilities; Steve probably bought his webcam and headset on clearance and hosts the show from a rumpus room.
- Matt Matthews
it appears that there is a demand for gg and if leo thinks its in the best interest of his nework to host it, i support that. however i think that it may be something he should consider having someone else host. as his network grows he is going to need to share the helm and this may be a perfect opportunity. personally i would love to see it a little more like the old tech tv lineup....
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- Tobias Lewsadder
Last week the Gillmor Gang was moved to Friday recordings and Leo did call in from home with Colleen runing the board. That was going to be the new recording arrangement but personal issues meant that the show couldn't be done this Friday and so they did it Saturday. So at least the plan was for Leo not to be appearing on the show from his studio any more.
- jccalhoun
I'm sure Leo said that if someone came to the studio he'd be happy for them to host
- Nicholas James
As far as I'm concerned the GG has always been an inferior offering which seemed only to serve the egos of those involved, long before it ever was hosted by TWiT Network. I don't think TWiT would be any the less without it. Regardless of the current argument.
- Dave Wallace
Wow. Just saw what happened earlier. Good for Leo. I'm quite confident that Leo is not proud of his behavior, but Arrington has been an insufferable prick for quite some time, and utterly had this coming. That it came from Leo speaks volumes, and should have Arrington re-thinking his own conduct.
- Phil Essing
Phil: Leo appologised on the 2nd Gillmor Gang and Mike appologised on a Techcrunch post.
- Nicholas James
Nicholas James: Thanks for the update, but were these pro-forma apologies? Leo's reaction to Arrington's characteristic button-pushing was about as genuine as they come. I would expect Leo to apologise for his behavior, but not for putting Arrington in his rightful place.
- Phil Essing
I have to add I really enjoy the GG when Leo is NOT in Studio Leo should step back and be a guest out of the studio
- Erle Stride
This has to be the biggest FF comment list I've ever seen. I'm with Leo!
- Jim Graham
Leo should install a big red kill button that cuts to re-runs for these cases or the occasional wardrobe malfunction.
- KyleHase
Just listening to part 2. Scoble just called in... Michael and Leo still making up. Steve's still waiting to weigh in. I think the fundamental mismatch between Steve and Leo's approaches to dead air is irreconcilable, and today sort of brought that to the forefront.
- Ken Sheppardson
Not just dead air, I guess. Hm.
- Ken Sheppardson
Two tribal leaders collide... which one do you choose as a role model for your kids?
- randulo
We love you Leo!
- Imran Idris
Not sure why people are calling for the GG to be removed from the Twit Network. It's an odd fit but a good one nonetheless. Whatever happens I am glad that apologies have been exchanged and we can draw the line on this drama.
- Jamie
Been thinking about all of this since it happened, and particularly about the impression that people took away from Steve's comment about community. Unfortunately, people listened to the first part without putting it into the larger context of the entire statement. When looked at in the context of the entire statement, it is completely consistent with how Steve Gillmor rolls. It is an...
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- Karoli
+1 Karoli
- Brad Kligerman
The answer is clear. John C. Dvorak should be added to the mix. The TWiT+GG+CG trifecta would be the driving cat.
- Jay Cuthrell
arrington shut down the comments on his post "ouch" at techcrunch dot com. he was getting ridiculously rude comments. isnt that why everyone was mad at him, for being rude?
- Tobias Lewsadder
Tobias: Actually, they were mad at him for questioning Leo's integrity. That's a little different from being rude. I suppose they didn't listen to Part II of today's Gillmor Gang, where Leo and Mike made amends, and Mike admitted he was a couple of steps ahead in the conversation, forming a rant about Palm. It was an astonishing moment for me to hear him admit he was 100% wrong. Given that he did, rude comments seem a bit out of line. I'd have shut them down too.
- Karoli
1164 comments. woah
- Tyler Gillies
a truly bad day with an incredibly awful end. Good night.
- Tina Chase Gillmor
go @bwana, right arm! Yeah folks, Leo is human, he's still the brightest light around, no one has as much culture or as wide a knowledge of so much. He's like the opposite of FoxNews
- randulo
I can't believe there is already a Keyboard Cat on this, lol.
- Jamie
just stating the obvious: as everybody knows gilmor gang is pretty much a bunch of old men cursing, declaring their opinions, & highlighting time and again that ugly kindergarten fights can break out regardless of age, education or status. it fosters dirty tricks and underhanded-ness. at times it's trying to have an edge with uninteresting cheap shots. the people aspect detracts from...
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- sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
1171 comments on one FF post...........that's got to be a record!
- mark dekruyter
http://tiny.cc/0diXG Maybe this is why Palm didn't send Mike a Palm Pre to review???? "We’ve never broken an embargo at TechCrunch. Not once. Today that ends. From now our new policy is to break every embargo. We’ll happily agree to whatever you ask of us, and then we’ll just do whatever we feel like right after that. We may break an embargo by one minute or three days. We’ll choose at random."
- Andy
@vstromdek but the record (now at 1173 posts with this one) is remarkable not only for the quantity of posts but also for its qualities> the diversity of points of view and the spontaneous manner that 2 communities (GG & TWiT) converged + deconverged around a strange and exceptional event. I agree @bwana, a victory for Friendfeed and real-time webs.
- Brad Kligerman
BradKligerman .... you are right..I'll just say, I appreciate Leo Laporte taking the "high road"...it says alot. It's his show, and in that moment, he had enough of the blatant, uncontrolled, self promotion techniques of some guests, in this case, Mike A.
- mark dekruyter
The G.G. show has always had a different feel or flavor to it: this blowup might have been inevitable...the tone of G.G. is so different than Twit.
- mark dekruyter
WOW!!! Leo said a bad word.
- Joe Demartino
...but I truly believe Leo is underestimating the essential force of Gillmor Gang: it is NOT a question of 'drama,' rather a question of the creative process engaged through critical confrontation, whose goal is the emergence of raw IDEAS. 'Idea' does not always = 'content.' The entropic spin-off of this process can perhaps be 'dramatic,' but drama is neither the intention, the device nor the content.
- Brad Kligerman
That was amazing. Don't press the buttons of the man pressing the buttons, huh? I think some animosity was brewing from Leo over the Last.fm RIAA issue that TechCrunch was on to. I like a lot of TWiT shows: the enthusiasm, humor and inquisitiveness draw me in. Now more than before, I appreciate the transparency of disclosures (review unit vs. purchase) that have always been there, but not as glaringly emphasized.
- Kevykev
The GG is the only show I don't watch on TWiT. It won't be missed, Leo. Don't waste your time with it anymore and focus your time on the other great content you create. That guy is a jerk and you don't need to feel bad or regret what you did.
- MIQAL
Questioning Leo's integrity was uncalled for. I don't know Leo other than listening to his netcasts since twit started and despite our limited digital one-way interaction I trust his judgment and wait to hear what he says about a gadget before I seriously considering purchasing. Leo's a seasoned enough professional that he's probably over the whole thing by now. Leo - From 9,000 miles and 10 times zones away - keep up the great work!
- Anant Gairola
Had a feeling it would be busy here.................
- Kevin J Hatton
Karoli-I heard Steve's comment re: community as he will not pander to any "community." If a community forms around his work great and if it doesn't that is ok too, is my take away from his comment. I am sure Leo having the power to shut down the show was a turning point as well, where it leads will be interesting to see.
- Jim Posner
karoli- i consider questioning someones integrity to be rude and insulting. arrington came off as a jerk. i did listen to that second gg and was rather impressed by how open both were and actually was a bit saddened by arringtons current emotional status. steves comments on how it was "his" show were a bit annoying but he is right. it would be interesting to see how well the show did...
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- Tobias Lewsadder
This gets a *facepalm* award for obvious reasons... see http://friendfeed.com/ffacepa...
- Richard pancakhaus Walker
Jim: The community that forms around editorial integrity is a far better one than the opposite. The issue of control, though...that's huge. Tobias: I agree that death threats are always out of line. And my dislike for Arrington and feelings that he has no compunction about stomping on people and then playing the victim when they push back do not mean that I support in any way, shape or...
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- Karoli
wasn't a fan of Steve Gillmor and didn't care for show didn't watch after second one
- Bob
keyboard cat #2 on digg.com http://digg.com/gadgets... I dont know if this makes me love the internet more or hate it.
- Thomas McGivern
Loren Feldman's video response is good.
- Stephen M. Otto
Way to go Leo.
- Ryan Grier
The second part of the show (post blow-up -- with Leo, Michael, Steve, and Scoble) is replaying right now on http://live.twit.tv.
- Ken Sheppardson
Seems a lot of brouhaha about a couple friends having a spat. Not sure doing this in the public-stream is adding much value. It's a bit like watching Oprha Winfrey and Barbara Walters having a spat on their show. Maybe it's entertainment?
- Michael Metz
Listening to the replay of the post-blow up broadcast. I totally understand why Leo blew up. I recently had a similar blow up where an aspect of integrity was questioned by someone close to me, and it hit a nerve. On the other hand, I think the purpose of GG is to probe deeply, and sometimes prosecutorially. If Leo doesn't want that style on his network, he should set GG free.
- Stephen M. Otto
Wow. I always miss the good stuff. Well not "good" but you know what I mean.
- Rustic Thoughts
Wow the Pre is a might sexier than my bulky android with that ridiculous "chin"
- Rustic Thoughts
I love the intro music....
- Rustic Thoughts
hey from georgia STILL WITH LEO the twits vedios out of order again stick kams working ok
- daveccorey
I'm jumping in--I wasn't at Woodstock, but I'm part of this historic conversation. And I'm with Leo. Anyone who has followed Leo for any length of time knows Leo's ethics. Shame on you Mike Arrington. You embarrassed yourself. And you revealed your true self.
- Hamilton Wallace
historic like the inauguration?
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
Hmm. . .wonder how many more people will know about the Pre as a result of Arrington's dickishness? Could this be something new: the Arrington bump?
- Hamilton Wallace
Would love to see Arrington on Cranky Geeks. Great job, Leo!!!
- Jim Corkrum
We can haz FF entry for TWiT?
- Ken Sheppardson
thanks to Denise we will in a second ken
- Chris Heath
I love Friendfeed! I don't find it difficult, not even a little bit.
- MarK
I wish the newest post in the thread was at the top. On mobile, it's a HUGE pain to scroll through all of the messages to the bottom.
- Karoli
Leo, you did the right thing. Mike A. is an A-hole.
- Samuel Cohen
is that my denise!!?
- jeneane sessum
(still watching)
- jeneane sessum
Wow... that Bing video search is... let's just say the secure web gateway market just got a nice pop.
- Jay Cuthrell
I came to all this late, but from what I've seen, there were quick apologies between the principles involved, why did any(every)one feel the need to get on a side and rail against one or the other when in fact, the 2 people involved pretty quickly made their peace.
- Matthew DeVries
Matthew: Everybody was pretty much already on a side. This just gave them a reason to cheer for their team and against the other guy.
- Ken Sheppardson
If Leo and Arrington were to war, I'd back Leo without question, but they made nice pretty quick. I can't stand Arrington and think the spitter had the right idea (spitting isn't real violence, just a sign of respect) but now everyone went and pushed him out of this sphere, which lessens it. Without the other side, this will become an echo chamber. We'll all start congratulating each other for pushing the water closer to the shore: http://www.zefrank.com/theshow...
- Matthew DeVries
Matthew, that's the nature of news. Breaking news goes viral but the follow-ups often do not. The live-web amplifies this sequence.
- KyleHase
In case anyone hasn't heard it, the 2nd part of the show is here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
I can empathize with Leo. I've flown off the handle in similar situations. Arrington did have an intriguing point, but it seems like he hijacked the conversation and got burned trying to be sensational. If he had waited for a break in the conversation around whether the Pre was actually any good and brought up his point as a topic of discussion, things would have gone much better. I think I'll steer clear of GG.
- Sam Ellis
Dude, MA is a total Richard. I am suprised you put up with it as long as you have. Everyone has limits man, I hope you don't feel guilty for it.
- Adam Deem
I'd love to filter out comments that are mostly "Person X is a(n) [adjective Y] noun Z." They are EXTREMELY tiresome to wade through. If you have built a case on an individual write it up and point to it. Then you can enjoy moderating idiotic comments to your own post. That said, what I read here before my eyes glazed over isn't so bad on the whole.
- Richard pancakhaus Walker
Christian Bale vs Leo Laporte vs Mike Arrington REMIX (with added calacanis dancing): http://tinyurl.com/l2vmyf
- Linton Davies
ZGood Job Leo It your network and everyone need to keep that in mind
- Richard Thomson
My rather late 2 cents on the Arrington/LaPorte exchange are here: http://bit.ly/aKZUc But Leo, you raise a MORE IMPORTANT POINT! The GG is not a good fit for your network. A few weeks you all laughed when my comment calling Gilmore "mean" bubbled up on the Skype-a-sarous. There is a reason that his show results in flame outs. Its the rather mean/unkind manner of the host. Guests take...
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- Dale Dietrich
Dale: I've been listening to some back issues of the GG and News Gang since this incident. I'm seeing that SG is very good at what he does, though he does it in a prickly and abrasive way. Sometimes he can be abrupt, but he is well informed and opinionated. It would be good for Leo to keep the GG in the TWiT stable - it broadens his portfolio, it keeps the cutting edge and insightful...
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- Jason Miller
Jason Miller: Well said. Steve is the best at what he does. It does take effort to get in the groove, but it's worth every second.
- Karoli
Got here from TechCrunch. FriendFeed: ".. the nearest thing to Shangri-La for mob justice enthusiasts.".
- Marisa Duma
Shutting off likes and comment forwarding from FF to T; complaints from the folks over there, real estate concerns. Come to FF for full feed
Gordon Saunders, Alex Scoble, Rob Sellen :o) and Edward Zwart liked this
I turned off comment forwarding but left likes on, because likes spark discussion. The problem with completely bifurcating the two is that it leaves no bridge from one to the other and back. Friendfeed is great, but many, many of my friends are not going to make the jump. I like the bridge I get with 'liking' but not sending comments.
- Karoli
sad
- Steve Gillmor
Well, now they won't see my response. Maybe they need more news on the OctoMom rather than what I have to offer.
- Aron Michalski
plus, all their @ replies just sit there in the silo, never to be seen unless I use another client or actually use the twitter page, which is rare now.
- Aron Michalski
you can pull in their replies via RSS, can't you?
- Karoli
actually, no you can't. I set up a twitter search on my name and pull in the @replies via the RSS feed as an imaginary friend.
- Karoli
I certainly don't mind seeing your likes and comments in my twitterstream.
- motownmutt
seems like this is going in the wrong direction, why would it be so hard to set up a truly competing twitter?
- Michael Metz
Your comments on FF are Twitter worthy. You should send those over at least. They have a link to the greater conversation.
- Christian Burns
Thank you Christian and Mutt. A strange crisis of faith averted.
- Aron Michalski
yeah, i had everything going over to twitter, but then after a gillmor gang and a twit (or two) i decided that I was filling up my twitter feed (that i don't really use that much anyway) with a lot of junk - so i turned off comments and kept the likes
- Chris Heath
Attention Friendfeed: maybe yet another box/switch within the continuing comment interface a la the initial comment you have so that when the real time flow gets hyper busy we can opt in/out the pummeling of our Twitter pals... EDITED once I figured out a better way to clarify...
- Aron Michalski
As the instigator of @aronski's crisis of faith... I feel I ought to chime in. I am interested in in the "interesting and I share with you" links... and the freedom to opt into a conversation around something that catches my interest. I don't want conversation shoved down my throat in Twitterland. I visit FF to see who is talking about what. on another note... Steve Gilmor is "sad" your judgement or how you feel about this subject?
- Gary Gold
Gary, I do understand that viewpoint, especially if you are used to seeing a fairly tame timeline rather than one jumping off the page with one person's replies. Aron's idea for having a toggle to stop sending replies from the same discussion over is a great one...I'm going to put it in the suggestion room. That way one comment from a discussion could cross, and the rest would be here if the first one sparked interest from a twitter friend.
- Karoli
In my case, the "sad" was just well timed because I was very uncomfortable about responding to you the way I did. It wasn't about you; it was about how my damaged co-dependent side knee jerks in order to never anger anyone and damn how I actually feel about it.I had to think about it for a while and probably over reacted in the other direction (another fine character defect). The up...
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- Aron Michalski
i really like the idea of having the option to turn off sending to twitter all but the first comment in a friendfeed discussion
- Chris Heath
Chris, I dropped that into the Friendfeed Suggestions room...hoping it's not tough to implement. It would solve a lot of problems.
- Karoli
cool - i think that would go a long way to fostering more cross network discussion
- Chris Heath
Visit ATD’s New Featured Pages: Pre, D7 Speakers and More to Come! - http://kara.allthingsd.com/2009060...
Interesting design, like a topic blog with related blog-like postings, I like it.
- Michael Metz
Hahah @karaswisher makes me laugh. See why here:
Oskar Gunnarsson, Ric Johnson, Keith Fulton and 35 other people liked this
http://kara.allthingsd.com/2009060... is her counter point to my article.
- Robert Scoble
She makes me laugh because she counter points my own article calling her and Walt Mossberg wrong for calling the 2010 web "Web 3.0." Lots of good points, except her defense of why she isn't on friendfeed is TOTALLY lame.
- Robert Scoble
and she used "wronger"
- Jesse Stay
Those are relatively sophisticated reasons to laugh. I just liked the Scooby Dumb picture.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
doesn't include twitter or friendfeed in the sharing module
- Michael Metz
Reply with a line by line retort, Robby x
- David Lloyd
2010 web versus web 3.0, so funny :)
- David Lloyd
Scooby Don't. Wow, kinda funny, but it doesn't sound like she fundamentally addressed the points that you made. I checked her Digg profile & her only friend there is Walt Mossberg. And on Twitter, she follows about 55 peeps. Not that she needs more Digg friends or Twitter followers. But what does that say about the depth of her understanding of these communities?
- phil baumann
Twitter share is coming on ATD. And Phil, I thought social networks were supposed to be used the way each person wants to use them and not in the way some dictatorial types decide.
- Kara
I am not on FriendFeed, because I must choose among all I can use and I find I like Twitter and Facebook best. Am trying out other stuff, but those stick. Also, I still find FF a bit more confusing, though I see why people like it.
- Kara
It's lame to pass judgment on which services a person uses. As long as they participate in the conversation, listen, and add value. That would be like criticizing me for not using video. I just suck at it, so I don't.
- Francine Hardaway
Thanks, Francine! But, apparently, some pigs are more social than others.
- Kara
Kara, I also like Twitter and FB best, although sometimes I get involved in a discussion here because they are fun, especially around GG or TWiT
- Francine Hardaway
Kara - I didn't say anything of the sort that you're implying. We all use these services the way we want. What I was questioning was your depth of understanding of these communities. I'm no expert. But: are you?
- phil baumann
Exactly. Like this. But now I gotta go get dinner for the kids, which might not be social, but is MUCH more fun.
- Kara
Didn't we have this argument about a year ago? Or am I having a case of Deja Vu?
- Jesse Stay
You were commenting on how I use social tools. That would be EXACTLY none of your business. It's that kind of know-it-all attitude that keeps regular people from participating. I am not an expert, nor did I ever say I was in the Scooby piece, but you seemed to find out exactly how I use stuff. I don't have any idea how you do, nor do I care. It's your ride around the planet, so knock yourself out.
- Kara
Also, I hope everyone knows that we were having fun with Robert, whom I love as does ATD. He is just the kind of passionate and enthusiastic user of all kinds of Web tools that everyone can appreciate (even if we don't agree on naming of Web eras).
- Kara
I just like that Robert got Kara to comment on FriendFeed ;)
- Jesse Stay
Blabby? first time I've heard the term.
- Carolyn Wood
There is a certain irony that the lovely Kara replied on FF
- David Lloyd
Kara - I was just asking a question. I didn't suggest any amount of knowledge. If I'm upsetting you right now, then I'll stop commenting.
- phil baumann
Good entertainment.
- Chris Rogers
- nice banter- Kara - I think it worked;-)
- Carolyn Wood
Chris - yes. A healthy dose of sparks.
- phil baumann
Really is a silly argument about Semantics, with the exception of the Friendfeed thing, Rob thinks its a crucial part of the 2010 web, Kara thinks one should be able to choose what sites are important for themselves.
- David Lloyd
Hi Kara: I love you too. If I didn't I wouldn't debate you. I will come back to your other points when we open Building43.
- Robert Scoble
And I think "wronger" isn't a word :-P
- Jesse Stay
I also replied ALL OVER TWITTER!
- Kara
I am so following you.
- Carolyn Wood
Scooby, you are SO terminated when Google becomes self-aware! (Then again, they are gunning for me right now due to my opposition to Yahoogle!)
- Kara
Mark: Kara will figure out why friendfeed is so important soon. Mark Zuckerberg today told me it is interesting.
- Robert Scoble
Wronger is not a word. It is a joke word, though!
- Kara
Kara it's okay - Robert called me an idiot on his blog. It's all love. :)
- Jesse Stay
Kara, I was joking too - I just thought the whole semantics debate was funny so thought I'd join in.
- Jesse Stay
Mark Zuckerberg! Well, if the Prophet of Palo Alto says so, then we all must follow! (actually, he is probably trying to buy it now that the Twitter guys dissed him and his $500M in stock and cash.)
- Kara
where else besides FF can you watch an entertaining debate unfold like this?... nowhere I've found... making my morning here much more enjoyable reading this
- MarkHirsch
Actually, I LIKE wronger. Let's all agree--if Zuck approves, of course--to use it all the time,
- Kara
I think Kara has doubled the number of friendfeed comments in this thread alone. :-) hey Kara wait until you discover the search engine.
- Robert Scoble
Kara, as long as I can use "funner"
- Jesse Stay
Oh, god Robert, no more! I am really a bad parent and now might have to resort to take-out pizza.
- Kara
How about: Funnierest
- Kara
Wait, that sounds like it should be illegal.
- Kara
Kara: I am a bad parent too. Come over and we will have a pizza party!
- Robert Scoble
Kara, I like "more funnierest" better though
- Jesse Stay
Predictions for the web in 2010?
- David Lloyd
Phil: You were not upsetting me! I just think it odd that you report on my social practices. Both Walt and I embrace the whole shebang, unlike a lot of other folks in journalism, and we get dinged for not using each and every tool. Like I said, different strokes for different folks (which actually sounds naughty when you type it out like this)
- Kara
Mark, the 2010 web will be more funnierest
- Jesse Stay
and less wronger
- Jesse Stay
The thing is tho Kara, FF really is a wonderful website, it's like Twitter Plus
- David Lloyd
Oh, hmm, predicitions: Screen ubiquity; explosion of touch, gesture, etc across all devices; social embedded in everything and now just here or on FB; real-time becomes useful; and, just wishful thinking for a decade now, the easy use of Web on TV
- Kara
Robert: Pizza with you and your spawn? My kids are like a pair of Dennis the Menaces. Do you have armor for yours?
- Kara
Kara, my big add to all of that: Open
- Jesse Stay
I know FF is great and, post-D, I will try to use it more. But if I end up liking another tool better, I want NO guff.
- Kara
How bout we call it The Mongooses? The Fighting Mongooses?
- Matthew DeVries
Open? A given.
- Kara
Rikki Tikki Tavi
- Kara
You just know right now Robert is in Wordpress editor typing up an epic piece about this whole thing
- David Lloyd
Oh, another GIVEN
- Kara
I think FriendFeed is sucking Kara in - careful, it's addictive
- Jesse Stay
Oh, I do the same on Twitter.
- Kara
Kara - I understand. I was just coming from the angle you just referenced regarding journalists and it's clear from your interaction here that you're thankfully countries away from some of your peers....Anyhoo, I'd like to see more face-off between you and Robert. I think Robert's on to something and your perspective adds another dimension. You should interview each other. Then we can duke it out on FF again. :)
- phil baumann
kinda googley addictive hmmm
- Carolyn Wood
I don't think the in person interview would work, Robert would probably be overwhelmed by Kara's personality and just huddle in a corner!
- David Lloyd
First question Kara could ask: "Why do you leave companies after 18 months!" ouch! hehehe
- David Lloyd
But most people in the IT industry could be asked that one!
- John W Lewis
hehe
- David Lloyd
Kara and Robby say hello to Techmeme
- David Lloyd
Insignificant blabble. Don't these people ever do anything meaningful. If you round off the percentage of people who are "involved with social media" the result is 0.
- Gary Sanders
from BuddyFeed
I enjoyed the article, especially this part: "We. Don’t. Use. FriendFeed. Regularly. As I said, we use Twitter, we use Facebook, we use SMS, we use blogging and we use a whole lot more. In fact, between us, we try out pretty much everything." -- would you agree that their list appears to be broadcast oriented and not discussion oriented?
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Why on earth would they want to engage in discussion. They're have to give up 50% of the airtime. Neither of them wants to do that. For them engagement *is* broadcast. They talk. People listen (at least in their minds). That's their interpretation of engagement. hehehe
- Ken Camp
My favourite line was "Oh, Scooby-Don’t…"
- Nicholas James
Kara, Like your FF comments better than Twitter..Its more interactive...:)...
- venkat
Hmm, not surprised Zuckerberg finds Friendfeed "interesting" since Facebook "borrowed" several features from it.
- Laura Norvig
Phil: We have debated live! Love Scoobs.
- Kara
At a Fortune Brainstorm event last year. It was dicey but fun
- Kara
Googley addictive sounds ominous.
- Kara
Oh, Scoobs likes to get around and I like that in a man.
- Kara
Gary: Social media is important and someday so pervasive we will not be debating it.
- Kara
LPH: No, I think I have a lot of interaction with folks on Twitter. A ton, in fact. It can be just as reactive, etc.
- Kara
Ken: That's a long graph there for a listener and all. But attack us all you like! We love that too.
- Kara
I love responding in Twitter too as it requires I be pithy.
- Kara
I am and will always be a big fan of Robert Scoble and Scooby-Do. Sometimes at the same time.
- Kara
Um, Kara? It was GooHoo. Goo. Hoo. I stand by that.
- Andrew Feinberg
Oh cool Louis Gray just left (we spent the evening playing with our kids). I should blog but have had enough fun for the evening!
- Robert Scoble
Robert, what? The two of you together and no pictures on FriendFeed?
- Jesse Stay
...I like "Scooby" more than "Scobelizer"...it's more warm and fuzzy. Scooby, why don't you go with Shaggy to investigate Web 3.0. Me, Daphne and Velma will hang out with the cool kids at E3, signed Freddie
- .LAG liked that
Jesse: don't we post enough baby photos already? ;-) Maryam made an awesome meal, though.
- Robert Scoble
Robert you can never have too many baby photos :)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, I took baby photos (and Milan). Want me to post them?
- Louis Gray
Louis, yes, please - do I need to ask? :)
- Jesse Stay
Sweet? Let me regroup!
- Kara
Um, YAHOOGLE
- Kara
Scooby goes for baby talk! Now, I look mean.
- Kara
Also, I am Velma. OBVI.
- Kara
no comment <<-- noise
- Pico Seno
Hey Kara, does your level of activity on this thread mean you might possibly consider participating on FriendFeed more? If so, I'm totally subscribing.
- EricaJoy
Favorite Kara quote: "You must know that mainstream users don’t pay one bit of attention to any and all of the dumb terms Silicon Valley comes up with." Word.
- Aaron D'Souza
Aaron: actually that is very wrong. I hear "Web 2.0" used in mainstream press/media all the time. Which is one reason I hate the name because most people think it is new and not nine years old already.
- Robert Scoble
True Robert, but she said "mainstream users" not "mainstream press/media" :)
- Aaron D'Souza
This is inside baseball. I agree with Kara. The only people who care what you call it are technologists and tech journalists. End users pay absolutely no attention to these labels.
- Kevin Pedraja
And I'd argue that the only reason any mainstream users are familiar with the term(s) is because the mainstream press/media made too big a deal of latching onto useless nomenclature.
- Aaron D'Souza
Twitter Search is stuck again - 18 minutes so far. What is the over/under for when they fix it or mention it? Discuss here: - http://search.twitter.com/search...
Daniel Rowley, Jon Ursenbach, Kol Tregaskes and 23 other people liked this
Twitter's Trending Topics all show the latest updates are 18 minutes old. Recently, Twitter Search was down for six hours, and was not even acknowledged on their blog. Since it's a Sunday night, I doubt fastest response. Who has a bet to when it catches up to real time?
- Louis Gray
I'd say over 1 hour and <4
- Jimminy Fuller
21 minutes so far...
- Louis Gray
27 minutes...
- Louis Gray
And in parallel, Spymaster reports: "Our communication channel with Twitter has been compromised. Reconvene at 0600 for further instructions."
- Louis Gray
40 minutes...
- Louis Gray
All searches now say "about 1 hour ago".
- Louis Gray
In the meantime Twitter finally responded to the source tag issues on the dev list
- Jesse Stay
"About 2 hours ago" is the latest data.
- Louis Gray
What is the entry barrier for other Twitter-like apps? Why are there no others competing with Twitter? That might improve things.
- Michael Metz
Mimetz, you're commenting on FriendFeed, aren't you? Seems like pretty good competition to me. It's reduced my Twitter usage, for sure.
- Jesse Stay
Must have stopped updating 2 hours ago. Just ran a search for 'Red Wings' and the newest tweet is "@cvas: Red wings in 5, Crosby will win one at home about 2 hours ago from web "
- David Damore
I don't think of FriendFeed as a competitor to Twitter, in that FF is built on top of the Twitter data stream. Why are there no other Twitter like streams? What am I missing here?
- Michael Metz
Mimetz, they've all tried - Plurk tried, Jaiku tried, Pownce tried, Identi.ca tried. None of them were able to. You're competing for community here, and right now the only networks capable of quickly gaining that community are Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and believe it or not, FriendFeed.
- Jesse Stay
It has now been 3 hours. James, you have one more hour to be right!
- Louis Gray
I don't understand your Twitter search obsession. Is the earth standing still while it is latent?
- Geoff
Being observant and taking notes (publicly) doesn't necessarily equate to obsession.
- Micah Wittman
@micah have you seen his posts the last couple of weeks? Obsession. Almost Calvin Klein.
- Geoff
Geoff, clever :) I can see how he might come off that way. I'm somewhere in the middle on it. Louis lives and breathes this stuff and he pushes social orgs to be accountable, to be better. I take it as tough love to some extent.
- Micah Wittman
I really don't understand why Twitter can't fix these problems. Are there too many people using Twitter for them to handle it?
- Shawn Hickman
Geoff, I wouldn't call it obsession. I posted first that it was broken (which it was and still is). I second posted that it was down six hours and they didn't say a word. Both are notable for different reasons. Today's incident shows that it was not a blip, it's a pattern, and we should hold them to a higher standard. Want to talk obsession? Let's talk about my obsession with FriendFeed.
- Louis Gray
If Twitter Search is one of the major parts of Twitter and Twitter is supposed to change communication, marketing, you name it, then they need to stop this from happening. And if nobody notices that it's happening, then its importance is a myth. I want this product to work, and when it does, we'll use it. But right now, it's failing everybody.
- Louis Gray
TechCrunch/MG is running the story. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Louis Gray
for what it's worth, this has actually been happening almost daily for the last few months (not just recently). most people haven't noticed because usually it stalls for a few minutes and then catches up quickly, but the signs and even a few one hour plus delays were showing up a long time ago.
- Mike Montano
Still down after three hours. People do notice when it's down, I do at any rate, search is an important tool for getting the best out of Twitter. It seems as though the people at Twitter just don't seem to care; a six-hour outage without acknowledgment is very poor, that's 6 hours with a second-rate service. Louis, I value your reports of search being down, at least I know that it's not just a local phenomenon - for all I know the earth could be standing still!
- Chris Loft
The twitter folks seem be oblivious to the search being broken. They are tweeting - see http://twitter.100twt.com/ but no one mentions that search is broken. Sigh..
- Atul Arora
Sorry Atul, we're not supposed to talk about it. Otherwise, we're obsessed. Let's talk about something else.
- Louis Gray
Looks like search has come back up in the last 15 minutes. Hooray.
- Chris Loft
Search is back up, but there is a 4 hour hole that may never be filled. Just like the 6 hour hole from the other week. Call me obsessed, but I care when utilities lose my data and don't work correctly.
- Louis Gray
Dare I say, Twit-Out? facetiously
- Geoff
Agreed. When it's user-generated data - it's OUR DATA.
- Micah Wittman
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound? Louis is the only one these days continuing to report on the major issues still surrounding Twitter. I'm grateful he is.
- Jesse Stay
Nothing works on twitter, and it's as true as it was two years ago.
- Richard A.
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