Miriam - Comments

FriendFeed is the easiest way to share online. Learn more »

Miriam

Reengineering the White Paper | The Bloom Group - http://www.bloomgroup.com/content...

December 1 from delicious - Comment - Like - Share

Good document outlining how to create a good white paper - Miriam

Miriam

Has anyone heard of www.israelgives.org? Are they legit?

November 9 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

http://www.haaretz.co.il/captain... - Ely Bonder

Thanks Ely! - Miriam from email

Darren Heydon

Sweet dreams are made of these.... - http://www.flickr.com/photos...

October 22 from Flickr favorites - Comment - Like - Share

Anna Haro, Emma and Live4Emma (L4S) liked this

well, who am I to disagree? - Glenn Slaven

2 more comments

HEY! Thank you sir! :-D - Live4Emma (L4S)

Nice one Carlos! :) - Darren Heydon

This sounds like a variation on a famous saying by Theodore Herzl (the father of modern Zionism) who said "If you will it, it is no dream" to describe his belief that a Jewish State was a possibility, even though it was no more than a dream in his time. He didn't live to see the establishment of the State of Israel. - Miriam

Akiva Moskovitz

Okay, okay, we really have no right to be surprised and upset about Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize. I mean, c'mon, Carter, Gore, and now Obama? They've been lowering the bar for years now. I expect Ahmadinejad to win it next year.

October 9 - Comment - Like - Share

JIDF, Jordan Hofker, Penguin It's Cold Outside and 9 other people liked this

LOL. - Spencer

15 more comments

Yup. - MVB (Grinch of FF)

I vote for a posthumous award for Saddam. - Rochelle

Martti Ahtisaari, Muhammad Yunus and Grameen Bank are such douches - Johnny Worthington

Dude, you can't trust anyone from Finland. Have you seen their EARS? - Akiva Moskovitz

Actually, Ghadaffi next year and Ihmanutjob the year after seems more likely. - MVB (Grinch of FF)

And Kim Jong Il in the corner sobbing, 'Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.' - Akiva Moskovitz

LOL! Good point. When I heard that he won I thought it was a joke, but I guess it's kind of all a joke in a way. - Miriam

The only possible potential tiny little chance that this was deserved by Obama, is possibly (since the Nobel Committee is sans Americans) that the whole rest of the world was so damn scared and freaked out that we were seconds away from touching off the destruction of the world, that by just winning the election Obama allowed the rest of the world to get at least one good night's sleep... more... - Matthew DeVries

Weird because I thought he had run a race against McCain. - Akiva Moskovitz

Funny, McCain thought that too - Johnny Worthington

So Carter, Gore, and Obama are in the same category as oppressive dictators who support terrorist tactics? Really? - Victor Ganata

Why does everyone care so much what 5 Norwegians think? - Cristo

Cause nothing else interesting is happening - Johnny Worthington

Victor - He said Ahmadinejad, not Stalin. They're in the same category as a puppet figurehead voice for a shadowy faceless cabal that supports terrorist tactics. - Matthew DeVries

I mean, the dude got elected by more than half the country. That should be a bigger deal. - Cristo

Matthew - ah, OK. Fair enough. - Victor Ganata

Ouriel Ohayon

RT @azeem: Congrats to @barackobama for winning the Nobel Peace [wow, can someone explain what he has actually done for peace??]

October 9 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

The Nobel Committee said he was awarded it for "his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and co-operation between peoples". Source: bbc.com - L.

2 more comments

i did not see he brought a factual progress to peace. this sounds ridiculous to me. - Ouriel Ohayon from email

we need to support the people that are likely to help to save the world... so maybe that so far he hasn't done enough... but 1 what is enough ? what do we know exactly about ht efforts he did to sa ve the world ? I don't think we, humble citizens, haven't the slightest idea about his efforts, if any, so far. So trust the nobel prize committee.. maybe the last one in the edelman barometer to be trusted - Alain Hemelinckx

I'm with you Ouriel. It's a very strange choice of winner, but as Akiva Moskowitz pointed out (another Friendfeed guy), there have been a lot of strange winners in the past, so this is kind of consistent. - Miriam

Miriam

My conclusion is that Seesmic Desktop is WAY better than Tweetdeck. Much more user friendly. Do you agree or disagree?

September 21 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Thanx so much Miriam! Seesmic is very easy to use, it's not dark grey but the most important thing is it shows HEBREW which Tweetdeck didn't. - RisaT from email

You're very welcome! The more I use it, the more I LOVE it. - Miriam

Miriam

Hamas leader denies Nazi genocide of Jews - http://digg.com/politic...

September 1 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"Seriously. That's exactly what I was thinking. As if this is some big surprise." - Miriam

George Hall (Australia)

Although Sean McBride put his thread of a couple of days ago behind a private feed (he has that right), I'm still able to look over it on a different platform and client. Sadly, Sean disallowed me my right of reply especially to his comments about me. I suppose it's very easy for him to delete what a person ACTUALLY said.

August 20 - Comment - Like - Share

Noah David Simon liked this

Of course, by most standards that would be called intellectual cowardice. - George Hall (Australia)

54 more comments

However, in the thread (which, unfortunately I cannot provide the link to due to it being private, I have been noting he claims to have been positively influenced by Jews, and that he's extremely versed in Jewish literature. And yet, if he claims Jews as positive influences, I wonder how such influences would feel if they saw him indulging in slander. - George Hall (Australia)

In Jewish culture, slander is one of the worst crimes. - George Hall (Australia)

So...I'm going to address this one point of Sean's and invite him here to discuss it. I can also claim some positive influence of Jews over the years and a strong knowledge of Jewish culture while still remaining a non-Jew myself. This should be a topic where Sean and I are evenly matched and a fair contest. And that's something I have no problem with. I've always liked fair contests. - George Hall (Australia)

On his particular slandering of me, however, well, it's untrue what he says and merely name-calling. My skin is sufficiently thick enough I can handle that. I've been called many things over my life, often by diametrically opposed viewpoints from each other. And, Sean, I've been slandered by experts. I've come out the other side of such slander relatively intact. - George Hall (Australia)

Sean, for the claim you make that we're addressing here, shouldn't there be some different behavior from you? Shouldn't there be a NEUTRAL viewpoint on Jews, Judaism and Israel at least? If there's some claim by you of being positively influenced by Jewish people, shouldn't there be evidence of that? And surely you should be doing something other than slandering me if that were the case. - George Hall (Australia)

Feel free to jump in and counter my point at any time, Sean. Because it's not satisfying having a one-sided debate...and I'd at least like to rest on my merits in a challenging intellectual joust on this point. - George Hall (Australia)

I did have one thing I ascertain about Sean corrected yesterday. From some of the things I've read, I had to wonder if he were extreme-Left wing. It was pointed out to me, ironically by someone else he slandered, that Sean is a Libertarian in terms of politics. So I'm not above being corrected where I am wrong. - George Hall (Australia)

I was asked the other day what proof do I have of Sean being anti-semitic and what qualifications do I have to make an accurate assessment of that. - George Hall (Australia)

Watching Sean do a self-contratulatory slander would be the best proof right now. - George Hall (Australia)

Qualifications? Sadly, anti-semitism is one of those things no college education could really give you an idea of. Personal experience of it tends to be the more accurate way to tell it. - George Hall (Australia)

My experience? In a more naive time, I was married to a lady from a Croat Ustashi background. At least she was honest about people of her background being on the wrong side of WWII, although she did tend to whitewash exactly what they did. After the divorce, one account I read of Ustasha behavior in WWII was very enlightening, a diary written by an SS soldier, an ally of the Ustasha, who was stationed in Ustasha-ruled Croatia. - George Hall (Australia)

It's not often you read an SS soldier, recounting he was physically ill watching the brutality of his own allies. - George Hall (Australia)

That's the overt version. After my divorce, I came across a young lady who claimed Italian/Ukrainian heritage and who also said she had a Jewish grandparent. She didn't seem anti-semitic. Far from it. However, she did try to steer me in a few directions I felt were wrong and got very narky when i didn't go that way. And there's a doozy of a story in what sort of disruption that girl's slander caused. - George Hall (Australia)

Hah. McBride. Good luck with that, George. - Akiva Moskovitz

Twelve years ago, I heard the second woman had a background that included a war criminal from WWII or two. It's a piece of information that has been confirmed from her own mouth twice in eight years. - George Hall (Australia)

Akiva, if Sean does come here to address my points, remember I said it was going to be a one on one debate with him. Feel free to observe, but let me handle him fairly. - George Hall (Australia)

Now, the second woman's father came to my country under an assumed identity, hiding a WWII past. - George Hall (Australia)

One further anti-semite, this time someone I wasn't involved with. The owner of a hostel in the Old City of Jerusalem circa 1991-92. Let's see...he hated me because I didn't particularly believe his views on Jews. - George Hall (Australia)

So, Sean, I think I can tell an anti-semite. It has nothing to do with you criticizing Israel if your criticisms were even valid. - George Hall (Australia)

It's the fact your criticisms aren't really neutral even. - George Hall (Australia)

And if you knew as much as you claim about Jews and Judaism, you'd know neutrality of the truest kind is always RESPECTED by Jews and even Israelis. - George Hall (Australia)

If you knew so much about Judaism, Sean, you would also knew Jews can discern between GOOD gentiles (Noachides) and the evil kind (Amalek.) And, if you knew so much, Sean, you could tell me the exact book of the bible, Christian or Jewish bibles, where that is most shown. - George Hall (Australia)

By the way, Sean, give Neal a good job as a logician. I'll give him a good reference. - George Hall (Australia)

No hard feelings, Neal, over your own comments. You and I can agree to disagree. - George Hall (Australia)

Sadly, Sean, you don't seem to want to say anything to me. Not in fair and equal terms range. You want somewhere you can delete my comments and tell people crap. And somehow I don't think you'll open up yours again so we can debate this. - George Hall (Australia)

The thing is, Sean, if you were truly ever positively influenced by Jews or so well read on their literature and culture...you'd at least be NEUTRAL towards them, or at best NOACHIDE. And you wouldn't be slandering me. - George Hall (Australia)

Akiva, I've noted you are one of the quietest when it comes to politics, you tend to prefer nice, normal stuff in what you post...yet Sean once tried to infer something bad about you. - George Hall (Australia)

Sean seems to believe that a lack of evidence automatically proves the opposite. Since I cannot PROVE to him that I'm not a Zionist or that I'm Mossad, that means that I am. Also, when he says that he wants to 'engage' someone in 'debate', it usually means that he wants to use the other person as a means to hit all of his talking points. I believe he goes after Jews on FriendFeed just... more... - Akiva Moskovitz

Yeah, I'm reading the same stuff as you guys got on that feed he blocked and deleted me from - George Hall (Australia)

I do have a slight surprise for him, however, if he has some contacts who can check my record. He'll be told by such contacts how wrong he is. - George Hall (Australia)

And he'll get some validation I'm very non-violent. - George Hall (Australia)

However, I've handled a tough challenge or two non-violently very well. - George Hall (Australia)

Eh, McBride's the MoviePhone of political discourse. 'If you support Israel's right to exist, press 1 nowwwww.' 'If you do not support Israel's right to exist, press 2 nowwww.' 'Based on your choices, you have proven yourself to be a Zionist. Press 1 if you agree...' Etc. And the responses he gives are about as canned as Muzak. For example, he cannot comprehend that one can support... more... - Akiva Moskovitz

Yeah, and the funniest bit is no Israeli or Jew wants the ACTUAL Arab homeland, Saudia Arabia. - George Hall (Australia)

Even more ironic, by NOT wanting any part of Saudia Arabia, they're saying no to oil money. - George Hall (Australia)

Just one of the many, many inconsistencies about the Middle East. - Akiva Moskovitz

I always tend to think the penny-pinching stereotype belongs more accurately to Scots anyway. - George Hall (Australia)

Keep in mind that I have very strong opinions about politics. I just choose to no longer discuss them on the Internet. In my experience, it's not worth the effort. - Akiva Moskovitz

Pity. In Israel, politics and religion can be discussed quite easily with Israelis. - George Hall (Australia)

Roof-raising in volume, strong opinions, but no bad-feeling. Cup of coffee, beer afterward. - George Hall (Australia)

Yep. I've often wondered, if it is a religious war, then where's fighting all across Israel? Why is it limited to the border with Gaza? - Akiva Moskovitz

When I was over there in the early nineties, even the West Bank Arabs didn't want to go near Gaza. - George Hall (Australia)

And Gaza usually turned pacifist young Israeli soldiers right-wing. - George Hall (Australia)

They'd try and apply pacifist beliefs there with the Gazans. Ended up finding such beliefs won't work there. - George Hall (Australia)

Why give that guy any more attention by making a thread about him. I say boycott any thread he starts and ignore any comments he makes in others. - pitlord

Differing opinions on how to handle such guys. However, it is fair to utilize one's right of reply while also validating HIS right of reply too. - George Hall (Australia)

The only thing of Sean's I'm disendorsing is his expectation he should be believed blindly. - George Hall (Australia)

And Pitlord, you can disagree with me if you wish. - George Hall (Australia)

Heck, it'd be a boring world if everyone agreed all the time. - George Hall (Australia)

Might also be a good time to add a quote: "If a mountain were smooth, we'd never be able to climb it." - George Hall (Australia)

If a challenge were easy, we'd never build any character. - George Hall (Australia)

And if God gives us a really hard challenge, He's usually got more confidence in our ability to handle it than we do. - George Hall (Australia)

Well...guess we won't see Sean turning up today. That's a wrap, then. - George Hall (Australia)

Wow. Interesting one-sided conversation with McBride. Didn't know he'd decided to hide behind a private feed. I guess it's much easier to preach to the converted when you don't have to worry about clouding the issue with facts from those who disagree with you. Good tactic Sean! Good luck in your little world over there! - Miriam

#GiladShalit wow... I totally missed this awesome thread. been so involved with tweet4shalit that I forgot about old Sean McBride. the problem with McBride is that there are too many enablers. I'm not afraid to name them... http://ff.im/7auaW my last video on #RobertScobleCompany http://ff.im/7akqN I think adequately sums up the situation. the essence of their scene is esentially that... more... - Noah David Simon

Akiva Moskovitz

Google Reader's 'People you follow' is useful only if you want a stream of links with absolutely no context. My honeymoon with Reader is almost over.

August 19 - Comment - Like - Share

masstrovato, Chris Myles, metalerik and 28 other people liked this

And I'm just starting to find it useful! :p - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

49 more comments

I was going to say the same thing about FriiendFeed FOAFs. - Richard pancakhaus Walker

FOAFs on FriendFeed are actually useful, though. They come from people who those you've subscribed to have, in a sense, vetted. You can immediately see where they came from, you can hide individual sources, you can hide entire people, you can hide individual sources from all people, etc. There is no control over there. - Akiva Moskovitz

I have mostly jumped ship with google reader. I have some feeds that port into my phone app and that's about it. Can't really stand the interface.. - Jon, the Chilled Beartato from Android

Jonathan, yeah I hate the UI too. I was using NetNewsWire but gave the UI a good, solid go to mess around with the social aspects. I'm going back to NWW until Google stops half-assing their way to nowhere. - Akiva Moskovitz

Hey now. I was just at Google HQ today, and met with the Reader team. They are doing a good job in my opinion. Sometimes, their philosophy is to release early and iterate, so when you do find issues, please do call them out in a way that they can help with. They're one of the good guys. - Louis Gray

Louis, it's always different when you can put a face on it (usually); I don't have that kind of opportunity, though. As for just reading feeds, Reader's good. Its popularity should attest to that. But the social stuff tacked on top of it feels, well, just tacked on top of it. This certainly doesn't mean that it can't get better or that the Reader guys aren't doing a good job. But I do feel like the social aspects of Reader simply haven't jelled yet. They're there but they feel like a side dish. - Akiva Moskovitz

It's a cool feed reader, but I'd rather follow people and GR doesn't do that part well. - Rodfather

Louis.. just as an FYI you have a LOT more push with Google than any of us common folk.. I report bugs, enhancement and feature requests and I RARELY get feedback or status updates. It's not just a Reader thing, it a general Google issue because support doesn't scale as easily as their software does!! As a user and developer it can be incredibly frustrating and painful to develop products that rely on a combination of Google Products and APIs. - Chris Myles

Interesting context, Akiva. I've put together enough of a little social group over there, that, even including yourself, as folks share things they enjoy on Google Reader, I actually pay less and less attention to the hundred or so feeds I have dumped in there. Instead I jump to the comments section, and I just check out what folks are talking about. It's far more social and entertaining than pouring over the dry old feeds that used to cycle through there for me. - Pete Delucchi

Pete, I'm not denying that one can generate a community over there. My complaints are mainly in the UI. First, comments are completely independent of everything else. Second, there is no sense of organization in the 'People You Follow' section: it's just a mass of feed entries that are in no way identified. I have no idea where a particular entry comes from so, in a lot of cases, I have... more... - Akiva Moskovitz

I've got kind of a bias against gReader, so I've stayed mostly quiet as people have talked about it. gReader has sucked all the oxygen out of the RSS feed space so there's not nearly as much innovation as should be happening there. - mikepk

Chris, I am common folk. As I've been writing about Reader and using Reader a ton for 3 years, I've gotten lucky enough to know some of the people on the team. What's often unsaid is that building at the scale of Google is very hard. Synchronizing services like Reader with things like Contacts/Chat/Gmail, etc. takes work too, so these things will sometimes take longer than we like. - Louis Gray

That said, I have tried just about all the feed readers out there. After all, I am RSS obsessed. Google Reader is the best way to read feeds fast, and share them with the world. The link blog is the killer app. Now, they are trying to turn that killer app into a community and conversation, and I think we are at the early stages of seeing what they end up with. (Speculation - not based on any inside knowledge) - Louis Gray

sort of like when they just share them in globs here, pointless - sofarsoShawn

Akiva, If you're looking at it in list view, yeah, it's hard to tell what's what. I don't know if my way of interacting with my RSS feeds, or GReader specifically is unique, but I've got the the thing overstuffed with feeds and friends. Within a day or two, there's a 1,000+ entries. I never look at it but more than 10-15 minutes a day. I just don't have time for it. So, I just keep it... more... - Pete Delucchi

Louis, I know some people love gReader, but I don't think it's really an application for the mainstream. Problem is, developers are a lot more reticent to develop alternate paradigms for feed reading because gReader is a) free and b) backed by the 800 lb gorilla. - mikepk

Louis, and don't forget, I've been hyping Google as the next strong contender in the social media field. Personally, and this post here reflects this opinion, I believe that all Google is missing is integration across the board. Reader with Profiles with Talk, etc. As you point out, it's tough getting synchronization across products will be tough and even if I give up on Reader now and go back to NetNewsWire, it doesn't mean I won't be cheering them on. - Akiva Moskovitz

And the thing that annoys me most of about google reader. It may seem a minor thing.... They sort items by the date which *they* read them, which to me loses a large amount of temporal context to any larger number of feeds. Long tail feeds that have any large amount of flow can get "clumped" together by as much as 2hour increments, losing a lot of information in the process. - mikepk

Pete, for me, I apply an Inbox Zero approach toward feeds as well. I don't have OCD but I can't stand seeing that I have unread entries and I don't like just marking them all read when I haven't skimmed them because I don't want to miss anything good. So, for me, and my use case, Google Reader is good for solo feed reading alone. I've added people there but it's too frustrating to keep up with their combined feed of contextless stuff. - Akiva Moskovitz

I'm a fan of Reader as a feed reader, and many of the features like Send To have really improved it for that, but the comment and sharing functionality seem pretty immature and outright confusing in some cases. If FriendFeed disappeared I'd probably just hop over to reader, but I really hope that doesn't happen until they've had a chance to improve things substantially over there. - Ken Sheppardson

me = dead-horse-abuser but, read/unread is a really poor way to deal with any significant number of feeds. - mikepk

Akiva, for me "From your 105 subscriptions, over the last 30 days you read 842 items" <-- of course this doesn't show how many I marked as read. Probably 10 times that, at least. - Pete Delucchi

Akiva, when you say feed of contextless stuff, do you mean their shares, like the shares I put into FriendFeed? - Louis Gray

Louis, correct. I just see a list showing me who shared it, the title, the blurb, and the date. Although I'm not sure what the date is: is it when it was shared? when it was posted? Here on FriendFeed, I see who shared it and when and where it was shared from. I would just like to know what the source is. And, well, the ability to hide all future shares from that source. - Akiva Moskovitz

What I need is something between the list view and the expanded view. An excerpted view, if you will. The list view doesn't give enough information and the expanded view gives it all. - Akiva Moskovitz

It is the date it was shared, not posted. - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)

Here I go, unabashedly pimping my wishlist for Google Reader once again: http://socialgeek.posterous.com/my-simp... - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)

Holden, about that God of FF thing... was there a vote that I'm not aware of? Isn't it a little presumptuous considering your stats? - Richard pancakhaus Walker

Is it okay for me to spam my own thread with my own blog? I hope so because here goes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.misanthropicgeek.com/2009... - Akiva Moskovitz

Hi all- I work on the Reader team and Louis pointed this thread out to me today. (sorry I missed it) I'd like to address a couple of the points all over this comment thread, (which is great by the way) First -- Chris-I wouldn't use the word 'easily' to describe scaling a service like reader ;) Second --Akiva-- You mention that you can't identify where the feed item that was shared came... more... - Jenna Bilotta

As for the higher-level point: the social layer in Reader is just starting to mature, and we've made a product decision that we are still primarily an efficient reading app. The reason why the social stuff has historically seemed separate, is because we want to preserve people's top priority, which we believe is jamming through a few thousand items a day. :) Comments and social is... more... - Jenna Bilotta

BUT, We are here, and we listen to as many channels as we can. We are a small team that likes to launch early and often, which is why somethings might seem "unfinished" or some larger (obvious) integrations not completed yet. Please, continue this dialog and just know we are listening and working away! :) - Jenna Bilotta

Wow, Jenna, thanks for taking the time out to address this stuff. I can't even begin to tell you how far this goes in not only encouraging my hope for these new features but in bringing down the wall a little bit between you and your users. It's funny, too, that I was coming to the same conclusions in the post I just linked to. Sometimes it's more about the user's expectations than it is the software's functionality. Keep up the great work! - Akiva Moskovitz

And, I do think a Summary View has some merit. A line with some title and share information and 2-8 lines of excerpt below that, and perhaps another line below with some other information or functionality. - Akiva Moskovitz

THanks for the feedback/response, Jenna. There is much good, and also much that is unwieldy with the Google Reader interface. The hierarchical structure is the most challenging, and lack of duplicate warnings - the same feed can appear in multiple folders, the same entry appears many times if shared by multiple people, and the whole putting people into groups is pointless. - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Putting people into groups would be useful if you could view by group. However, I'd like to be able to customize my own groups. - Akiva Moskovitz

Jenna: One of the things I find frustrating is the lack of read/unread status in the Comment view. When I'm viewing a feed or someone I'm following, I can can view "new items" or "all items", but when I go to Comments view, I get "Items with comments" or "All shared items"... which doesn't make sense, because I'm in *Comments* view to begin with. I'd really like to see the same choice here as with feeds: either items with *new* comments, or all items with comments. - Ken Sheppardson

Jenna, thanks! Akiva, happy that she jumped onto this thread and addressed your concerns. :) - Myrna

Jenna, thanks for listening and your comments! - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)

@akiva - summary view is sort of what we are calling "Super snippet" it's what we use in comment view and search view. There is merit to considering this type of view for regular feed reading as well, for precisely the reasons you mention. - Jenna Bilotta

@Aaman - The same feed possibly appearing in multiple folders is a feature (if you can believe it). it's best to think of Reader folders like Gmail labels or tags. the folder name can apply to individual items, whole feeds or feeds can appear in multiple folders. This is something that is embedded in Google philosopy (we call it "Multi-inclusion") because it gives people the most... more... - Jenna Bilotta

@Ken - When you click on "expand this item" in comment view, it marks the item in your normal feed view as read, but doesn't otherwise. Comment view is optimized for conversations, not items, so we only show it in order of most recent comment. Your feedback makes sense though, and I'll note it for when we update comment view. Thanks! - Jenna Bilotta

Whew! Alright folks, I'm off to sleep now. Keep the feedback coming if you like, or join the "Google Reader" friendfeed group, which I track closely. (so I don't miss more threads like this.) You can find it here: http://friendfeed.com/google-... - Jenna Bilotta

Jenna: I actually never noticed the "Expand this item" link in the comment view... with lots of text links all over the place (vs buttons) I tend to get lost sometimes and can't distinguish between links that are part of Reader and what's part of the item. I appreciate seeing comments in reverse chron, but in "j"ing through the list of items, I have a hard time recognizing which comments I've read and which I haven't. - Ken Sheppardson

Main missing item: a My Discussion view, where one can see all items commented and liked. - Aaman (Clone of FF)

@Louis, I certainly understand the complexity issues and the time it takes to integrate them all. I'm certainly not complaining about Reader, I use it, Love it and "sell it" to all of my friends, the additional social features make it even more interesting. Developing products that use the APIs and Products is where it becomes difficult. I also think you have more pull then you realize, I certainly would never be invited into Google for a chat!! - Chris Myles

@Jenna I certainly wasn't trying to describe the software scaling issues as easy, but Google has obviously nailed it, Reader, YouTube, Blogger, Picasa, Maps, Earth etc. What Google hasn't nailed is the support to those millions of users. The customer support forums are full of unsatisfied users who are trying to get *any* answer/feedback from Google, but support and customer... more... - Chris Myles

@Jenna BTW I'm not trying to pick on Google, I think customer support is a VERY difficult problem, especially with the number of users you have and the way Google products are compartmentalized. I have spent literally 100's of hours documenting bugs and feature/enhancement requests (in forums, groups and direct emails with PMs), but most of the time it seems like a complete waste of effort, considering I can get a guaranteed return by developing new features and/or supporting my customers. - Chris Myles

I can't stand that Google Reader displays the feeds I subscribe to in a stream. I much prefer the boxes as offered by services like Netvibes. If Google would ever change their UI to something like that, I'd probably switch in a second. - Miriam

"We do have an issue with "share with note" that creates a duplicate of the item and attaches the note, which is probably where you are seeing most of the siloing happen. That issue is being worked on.. but it's a bit hairy.. so it's going to take some time." <- Jenna, is this still going on? - Marcos Marado

Miriam

The Canadian Press: Overhauling health-care system tops agen - http://digg.com/world_n...

August 17 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"I don't know why the US is looking to Canada as an example of public medicine. Canada's medical system sucks. Canada's health system almost left a relative of mine to die in the emergecy room - he was only saved because a friend of his who's a doctor came and intervened at the last minute. However, I still think that it is a country's and society's duty to provide health care to all its citizens There are other public health systems in the world, and some of them are great. For example, Israel. Unfortuately over the past few years I've had to really use the Israeli health system, and it's only been amazing. We pay high taxes, but we see the benefits in free health care and heavily subsidized medications. It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn good." - Miriam

Sean McBride to Sean's feed, Mideast Politics, US Politics

CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years - http://www.easenews.net/...

July 15 from Bookmarklet - Comments disabled - Like - Share

Lisa zahara Hopkins, Tanath, Sean Oliver and 67 other people liked this

"A study conducted by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has cast doubt over Israel’s survival beyond the next 20 years.CIA on Future of Israel The CIA report predicts “an inexorable movement away from a two-state to a one-state solution, as the most viable model based on democratic principles of full equality that sheds the looming specter of colonial Apartheid while allowing for the return of the 1947/1948 and 1967 refugees. The latter being the precondition for sustainable peace in the region.” The study, which has been made available only to a certain number of individuals, further forecasts the return of all Palestinian refugees to the occupied territories, and the exodus of two million Israeli – who would move to the US in the next fifteen years." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet

331 more comments

"He said CIA, in its report, alludes to the unexpectedly quick fall of the apartheid government in South Africa and recalls the disintegration of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, suggesting the end to the dream of an ‘Israeli land’ would happen ‘way sooner’ than later." - Sean McBride

WOW, this is an interesting study...however its aim seems to be little more than a self-fulfilling prophecy...out of touch with realities. - Hayk H.

Not if I can help it! And I am not alone! Israel is my home, my Jewish home! Israel does not belong to UN, CIA, or America! Sean, your antisemitism is offensive! You may not like Israel to be a Jewish state, but your fixation with the topic smells foal Do you talk about any other political issues besides the Jews? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Actually, this may be the most plausible and realistic scenario out there at the moment. The comparison of Israel to apartheid white South Africa is especially telling. - Sean McBride

This potential scenario is why it's in Israel's interest to implement a two-state solution as quickly as possible. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

John -- I think the opportunity to implement a two-state solution has slipped by. Too late. Now Israel is on a collision course with the entire world, and especially with the Western democratic world -- much like apartheid white South Africa just before its collapse. - Sean McBride

Sean, guessing or predicting future in itself is quite unrealistic - clairvoyant and astrologers would fare better...but making a guess as wild as that - let apart for the moment sympathies for or grudges against Israel - is just a plain timewaster unless of course it is driven by some misleading PR agenda.. - Hayk H.

Igor -- how many Americans and Europeans, from presidents and heads of state on down, have been attacked by pro-Israel activists at this point -- often viciously attacked? (See, for instance, Pamela Geller's posts on Barack Obama at Atlas Shrugs: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_s...) This is one of those fateful trendlines that tends to give credence to this scenario. Israel should never have become an issue of ugly contention in American and European politics. - Sean McBride

Apartheid...ok, I know some people call it that. But a CIA report calling it that? An official US government report using the Apartheid with the word Israel? Doesn't that raise the 'bs' meter to some folks? That would be basically unheard of. I mean, the use of that word alone raises into question the entire existence (or lack thereof) of this report. Has anyone seen a link that doesn't... more... - Andrew Leyden

Andrew -- the previous Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, used the word "apartheid" to describe self-destructive trends in Israeli politics. The meme has been out there in a big way for some time. Try Googling ~israel ~apartheid for a torrent of results. It wouldn't be surprising if the CIA has noticed. - Sean McBride

Sean are you calling Vatican city an apartheid state? Should Jews Catholic, Muslims, Gays, Atheists, and all kind of agnostic people reside at Vatican City, just because Sean is an Atheist who denounces all religious believes? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Sean, by the same logic, America needs to remove "In God we Trust" from its currency. Remove One nation under God in its Constitution. Why not in #PurplCow we trust? or even PurpleCows! Or better yet, in Sean McBride we trust, Oh Lordship! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Hi Sean. I've done a google search but all I get is the same old same old. Quotes read almost verbatim from other quotes (i.e. a key sign that it is a story being passed virally rather than others having seen something and writing independently). Many of the sites who have picked up the story are biased, to say the least. Maybe I'm just more skeptical than most, and if there is a report I'd like to see more (really, I'd like to see it), but even just a quick search has my BS detector beeping. - Andrew Leyden

I'm pretty sure "one nation under god" does not appear in the U.S. Constitution. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Yes, John it is in the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States of America which is charted by the constitution! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Andrew -- you find it unrealistic that that the CIA might be speculating that Israel could be facing the same fate as apartheid white South Africa? Nothing could be more realistic -- these ideas have been circulating at the highest policy circles around the world for years now (including in Israel). - Sean McBride

Igor, certainly you are not trying to have a rational discussion with Sean on this subject, are you? It's not possible but anyway, I enjoy your fervor. - Myrna

Maybe America needs to pledge allegiance to CIA, or Rober Scoble, or FAIL WHALE LMAO #failwhale - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Yes, it's in a revised version of the Pledge of Allegiance, but the Pledge and the Constitution are different documents. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Myrna, thanks! I am just trying to point out what type of hypocrite Sean McBride is. And how much alternative agenda PR propaganda Sean has been doing on FriendFeed anti-Israel and against the Jewish people, for the past year. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

This is the same bunch of wizards that completely missed the fall of the Soviet Union, right? - MVB (Grinch of FF)

Never happen. This sounds like more end of the worlder stuff. As that is the only way Israel would dissolve. Historically Israel has zero in common with South Africa. - Todd Hoff

Igor -- should non-ethnic Germans be barred from living in Germany or be deported from Germany? Wait -- that was tried. It was called Nazism. Apartheid white South Aftica also tried to play that game. - Sean McBride

John, I realize the Pledge and the Constitution are different documents, but you Pledge to the country which is governed and created by the Constitution. under the declaration of independence. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

I'm not sure if the time for a two-state solution has passed, but I think it's perilously close. The trouble is that Israel's moderates will have to fight hard against extremist elements to get any such solution implemented (when I say "extremists" I mean people of the sort that assassinated Rabin). That fight will take time and effective leadership, which I doubt Netanyahu can provide given his dependence on right-wing elements to stay in power. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

"Israel risks apartheid-like struggle if two-state solution fails, says Olmert" (November 30, 2007) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world... "Israel's prime minister issued a rare warning yesterday that his nation risked being compared to apartheid-era South Africa if it failed to agree an independent state for the Palestinians. In an interview with the Israeli newspaper... more... - Sean McBride

Well Sean, when you can show yourself as unbiased individual, ny talking about other stuff besides Israel and the Jewish people, we can have an open and logical discussion. Until then, please study the Jewish history, like millenniums of persecution from Exile to Egypt as slave to Holocaust. Now read this article to start with The Western Wall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Sean, you're not really that gullible are you? Obviously Ehud Olmert had his personal/political motives when he made those comments. LOOOOL - Myrna

Myrna -- is the substance of Olmert's comments correct? Israel is now in a state of sharp conflict with the entire Western democratic world over the issue of settlements -- we've seen this pattern before with militant ethnocentric states that got on the wrong side of mainstream Western democratic values and trends. - Sean McBride

There are 4,720,000 Google hits on the Israeli apartheid issue -- it is huge: http://www.google.com/#q=~isr... One doesn't need the presence of an alleged secretive CIA report on the matter to get the picture. The controversy is screaming at one in full public view. - Sean McBride

Sean - Do I think the US is speculating Israel may end up like South Africa? Yup. Have people called it Apartheid? Yup. Do I think this specific report is bogus? Yes. It fails on so many alarms it's not funny. EVERY google reference I could find was a direct verbatim link back to the original, which is apparently from PRESS.TV! I mean, Press.TV. It uses loaded language like Apartheid,... more... - Andrew Leyden

Sean, you are in the 1% vision of our limited 5 senses. :) Haven't you ever had something happen in your ownpersonal life that were completely unexplainable? Whether Israel lives on is in the 99%. It's not up for discussion unless you simply want a back and forth intellectual dialogue. - Myrna

Amein! Now Sean, go have a Cheezeburger! LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Myrna -- are you saying that you have access to mystical faculties that permit you to refute and dismiss Ehud Olmert's remarks about apartheid without any rational arguments? :) Or am I misunderstanding you? Where do you think the current conflict between Israel and the Western democratic world over Israeli settlements is going? - Sean McBride

Sean, I think you have enough energy on this post for it to qualify for 'best of the day' maybe best of the month lol :))) - Myrna

Andrew -- I don't know whether this report exists or not. I do know that the points of view that are being ascribed to the alleged report are being discussed openly in high policy circles all around the world, and within the United States. An Israeli prime minister gave a strong push to the meme in 2007 (see the quote from the Guardian article above). The debate over these issues... more... - Sean McBride

20 years, isn't that what the scholars said about capitalism? - xero

Sean, I think whatever is 'supposed' to happen...WILL! I think that the settlers will be forced to give up their need to 'hoard'(due to their own fear) and stop letting their egos control their behavior. That said, there are lessons for Israel and the rest of the world that continue to show up. Each of us(including regions, states, etc) have lessons to work through which can't be... more... - Myrna

xero -- some analysts predicted that the apartheid white regime in South Africa would collapse; that the U.S. war in Vietnam would fail; that the newspaper industry would collapse; that the American automotive industry would collapse; that Communism would collapse; that the Iraq War would prove to be a debacle for the United States, etc. Sometimes forecasters get it right. - Sean McBride

Myrna -- with regard to karma: I've read a great deal of Buddhist texts and am wide open to non-rational modes of consciousness. But I've noticed that political movements which rely heavily on mysticism and messianism tend to misread reality and self-destruct on a regular basis. With regard to the settlements and settlers: my prediction is the opposite of yours. I am predicting that... more... - Sean McBride

Forecasts sometimes turn out to be right, but sometimes turn out to be wrong because of forces the forecasters didn't foresee. A wrong forecast doesn't mean forecasts are not worth taking seriously; they represent potential scenarios based on current trends. If this is really a CIA report, it's worth considering since they likely have access to information that we don't. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Andrew: wow -- the discussion about this alleged CIA report has been much more widespread than I realized. I just did a quick Google search and discovered: http://www.google.com/#q=cia+... Since Ehud Olmert, Jimmy Carter, Desmond Tutu and dozens of other leading political figures and intellectuals have outlined a similar scenario in recent years, it's not surprising... more... - Sean McBride

Igorovich, interesting you mention the Wailing Wall. Isn't that is a rather late historical invention? Wasn't for centuries the Mount of Olives the place were the destruction of the temple was celebrated? This CIA report is clearly a hoax, but not such a bad one. The best hoaxes always contain a grain of truth. - LeaNder

Temple Mount is where the temple was, Mount of Olives is higher than the Temple Mount and was used for celebration and mornings for the temple. But these aside, read the Wikipedia page on Western Wall to see how the Jews were persecuted and denied to pray there, by the Arabs. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Israel vs. the Western democratic world: the Western democratic world strongly: 1. opposes Jewish settlements in the occupied territories 2. supports the creation of a viable Palestinian state 3. opposes a military attack on Iran. 4. opposes ethnic nationalist, religious nationalist, and ethno-religious nationalist states in general. The United States has just been badly burned in a war... more... - Sean McBride

FriendFolks….. hel-lo!!??? All this talk for and against Sean's bullshit hypothesis is of no consequence. Go, take a look at the map. Israel has nowhere to go, and so, if threatened with destruction, it will make life pretty unbearable for its attackers (current concentration-camp-like conditions in Gaza will be nothing in comparison: http://www.paltoday.com/arabic...... more... - ianf ⌘

ianf -- there are more subtle factors in play than military force in the rise and fall of nations throughout history. Apartheid white South Africa was highly confident in its military prowess and its ability to mete out suffering to its opponents. Still, it sank like a stone. Ethnic nationalist states in general are on shaky ground in the 21st century -- history has passed them by. - Sean McBride

Let's get something clear here, Sean. You can pontificate on the historical parallels or analogies all you like but, for reasons too various to mention, Israel established itself firmly where it is when it was given half a chance (in 1947-1948). The Palestinian Arabs didn't grab the same chance then extended to them - nor any other, however crippled, chances they had later (Anwar Sadat... more... - ianf ⌘

I can't think of a forecast over a period longer than 2 years that has ever been met as expected. - xero

ianf -- within the larger sweep of history, these arguments back and forth about who is right and who is wrong are meaningless. The rise and fall of nations is always the product of an intersection and combination of real-world physical factors. Nations and regimes on the decline are almost always in denial, and are usually brimming over with clever arguments assembled by propagandists like Frank Luntz to explain why what is really happening isn't really happening. - Sean McBride

xero -- I can think of quite a few forecasts over periods longer than 2 years that have been accurate on the main points, if not on all the details and particulars. I've made a few of them myself. :) It's not difficult: simply see clearly what is directly in front of your nose and trust your own perceptions. - Sean McBride

I've spoken to Benny Morris last year after a public lecture on the possible outcomes of the Israeli-Arab conflicts [amend: pluralis] in the region, too complex to summarize here. He concluded the talk with this (here paraphrased) winged sentence: "Of course, all those scenarios will be moot once Iran reaches the stage of producing enough plutonium - after which all bets are off." Benny... more... - ianf ⌘

ianf -- I've read Benny Morris's books, and know his story -- and am pleased to see that you are familiar with his thinking also. Obviously you've invested some serious effort in trying to figure out this complex situation. Apparently we've come to different conclusions after analyzing the key data and trends, but differences keep the world interesting. - Sean McBride

How to predict social, political, cultural, scientific and technological futures: identify the best, the strongest upcoming minds in any field or area of activity, and graph where they are trending. They will often be trending directly against the status quo and into the unimaginable. - Sean McBride

Andrew and Leander: I am pretty good at spotting hoaxes, and have often called them out when they appear on the Internet. After mulling over the comments about this alleged CIA report, I think it is for real, although the description of the report may be distorted here and there in the particulars. Why do I think it is real? Look and feel. Political context. Style. It smells like the... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, are you happy? You don't give it up for 1 second. Take a hint from ianf. RELAX!!! What do you do for fun..analyze the world situation? If you really had the answer, then what? How are you helping the world to be more sharing, giving, caring and loving? - Myrna

Sean, you are a False Prophet, Israel will survive. The Jews will survive. Israel is given by God to the Jewish people as a gift to the whole world. Please read this post and the comments http://www.igorthetroll.com/blog... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

One sees more irrationality, illogic and fantastical and magical thinking associated with Mideast politics than with probably any other topic under the sun. It's fascinating stuff, and exceedingly dangerous stuff. - Sean McBride

I reccon Israel will prolly be about where it is in 20 years. - Will Higgins™

Igor: you should check out Glenn C. Altschuler's "Einstein and Complex Analyses of Zionism" in the July 24, 2009 issue of Forward: http://www.forward.com/article...: "“Judaism Does Not Equal Israel” is a sharper — and shriller — version of Einstein’s critique of the Jewish state. A “post-Holocaust” theology, according to Marc Ellis, professor of Jewish studies and director of the... more... - Sean McBride

(Continued) "'Acknowledging that Israel is not likely “to reverse its expansionist course,” Ellis ends with mourning — and a warning. No state, he writes, apocalyptically, can exercise power over others indefinitely. As the day of reckoning nears, the children of Israel “will encounter such hollowness at the core of Jewish identity that their distance from things Jewish will increase until, incrementally, the core disappears” and Jewish affiliation dwindles “to the point of no return.”" - Sean McBride

Sean, The Judaism core will never disappear.Israel will never disappear. Israel and Judaism is one and the same. Judaism will live forever. This is God's will. Amein - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- many of the best Jewish minds of the last century, including Albert Einstein and Marc Ellis, strongly disagree with the claim promoted by religious Zionists and Jewish fundamentalists that Zionism = Judaism. In fact, they have argued persuasively that that cult belief is a form of false messianism that is destined to provoke a great catastrophe for the Jewish tradition. I am placing my bets on those thinkers, not on the fundamentalists. - Sean McBride

google(false ~messianism OR ~messiah http://www.google.com/#q=fals...) Also: google(false ~messianism OR ~messiah harkabi http://www.google.com/#q=fals...) - Sean McBride

My bet is with God. So is my heart and my soul. ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

I don't buy the comparison with South Africa in part because of the strict economic sanctions South Africa suffered due to Apartheid that Israel does not suffer (well, yet). It may be a real report, but strikes me as so much speculation right now. - Rob Haas

I'm talking from a different angle(I'm not Jewish, Muslim or Palestinian or American.... or even interested about religion) but aren't you all sick of this conflict? The area is so beautiful, with a huge potential. Most of us(and most of the region's population) weren't even alive during the Holocaust or during the Exodus for that matter. Most of us don't even care if you're Jewish or Palestinian or a fricking martian for that matter. - Bogdan Costea

Let me see: They have our money, they have our military, they have first spot in our markets, they command our leaders, they tell us how bad we are, We do everything for them except for that little operation ar distinguishes them. So what more do they want???? - ThatDBD

First of all, that is the one of the most shady and terribly written articles I have ever seen. Hard to see that as an authoritative source. Second, there are zillions of experts predicting the future all the time. How many end up being right? Not many. I think that with the ever increasing trend of anti-semitism around the world, more and more Jews will seek to make their lives in... more... - Miriam

Miriam -- since a former Israeli prime minister (Ehud Olmert) and a former American president (Jimmy Carter) have already pushed this meme into public discourse, it wouldn't be surprising to learn that the CIA has been exploring this scenario in secret. I am betting that the story is essentially true. The references to the collapse of white South Africa and the Soviet Union sound very CIA-ish stylistically. - Sean McBride

"biased-for-rationality" self-perception and social perception ... Igorovitch, your sermon I should study Jewish history and antisemitism is late by several decades now. Do want me to list what I read about it. How about comparing? What did you read? My problem in a nutshell: based on my knowledge, I am slightly puzzled by the similarities of the Jewish perception of the "Arab mind". - LeaNder

"Israel is given by God to the Jewish people as a gift to the whole world. ", yes indeed, it looks like. The gift of WWIII/IV and armageddon. - LeaNder

Armageddon is something that will come if the world makes it come. There is always hope for the human race. If you looking to blame Israel and the Jews for your problems, get in line! You will not be first, or the last to do it.. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Miriam -- I was under the impression that the rate of emigration from Israel now exceeds the rate of immigration. Did I get that wrong? It is also interesting that most of the most fervent pro-Israel activists on the net have chosen not to live in Israel. For them, Israel is mostly a myth and a fantasy. For many reasons, they would prefer to live in the United States or Europe, which... more... - Sean McBride

Miriam: google(israel ~emigration ~immigration) popped up this article at the head of the search results: "Emigration from Israel exceeds immigration, report" http://stlouis.ujcfedweb.org/page... "Almost half of the country's young people were thinking of leaving the country, the report said. Their reasons included dissatisfaction with the government, the education system, a... more... - Sean McBride

Who will make Armageddon come are fanatics, armed with WMDs, who believe that an angry and vengeful God is on their side in an apocalyptic struggle against the rest of the world. - Sean McBride

Bogdan Costea -- you are voicing basic beliefs that are held by all modern Western democratic societies: enough with the ethnic and religious ranting! :) It couldn't be more simple. - Sean McBride

Ok, Sean, you do not want to be honest, I am telling all my friends Jews and conservatives to stay awy from you and your debate. You bait us to come your slender antisemitic thread, and they you sanitize and refactor the comments to fit your biased hidden agenda! Have a nice day! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- feel free to post any comments in this thread that are civil (an absolute requirement) and, preferably, factual and rational. With regard to your claim that God is on your side: most educated people do not make that claim, because they are familiar with the long history of savage and genocidal bloodshed conducted by various parties and sects, all of which claimed that God was on... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, we are not talking in the vacuum! All I asked what country do you live in and what is your profession. I did not ask you for your credit card number. I would like to know what is your interest in Israel and the Jews. simple questions! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- why would you try to tell other people with whom they should speak or debate? That is the kind of attitude one finds in totalitarian cults. With regard to my agenda, I couldn't be more direct and honest: I think fundamentalist thinking of all kinds represents a grave threat to the American interest, and to the well-being of the human race at large. I have lately been... more... - Sean McBride

Oh, and I have no problem telling people what I do. I have no hidden agendas. I am a Israeli citizen, a Jew, living in Japan. I am a businessman, who likes to travel and write. ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- I am an American citizen and have always lived in the United States. I do computer consulting. One of my interests is American foreign policy in general, and American Mideast policy in particular -- this is a very big topic on the American scene for all the obvious reasons. What is your nationality and where do you live? - Sean McBride

Thank you! As I wrote above, I am an Israeli citizen, a Jew, living in Japan. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- so this is where we differ: when you discuss Mideast politics, you are arguing from the standpoint of what you perceive to be your ethnic interests and the Israeli interest, which is perfectly legitimate. Most Americans view and analyze Mideast politics from the standpoint of the American interest, period. They do not live in an Israel-centric universe. (Christian Zionists and... more... - Sean McBride

Sean: Some advice: Don't feed the trolls. Chuckle at their statements, but don't give in to the temptation to reply. When you engage with them, they win. I should know, I've been a troll, myself. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris -- I take the point of view that anyone can possibly be redeemed -- even trolls, :) I always give them an opportunity to try to make sense and enter into a real conversation -- up to a point. - Sean McBride

Igor -- regarding Jewish issues: I confess to being a philo-Semite, and even, on occasion, a Jewish supremacist, in the sense that I believe that Jewish civilization has generated a more interesting conversation about the world than any other civilization I can think of. A majority of the minds that have most impressed and influenced me have been Jewish. But none of these luminaries... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, is calling me a Troll part of rational debate? If you want rational debate from me and other Jewish conservatives, treat us with respect, and do not use ad hominem against us when it is convenient to slender us on Robert Scoble, Alex Scoble or any other place where it fits your agenda. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- dropping "The Troll" from your user name might be a good public relations move. :) - Sean McBride

Sean if I wish to wear Magen David on my forehead, or a Jew in my name, that is my choice and my right? But when you see me with a sign Jew, are You going to call me Jew, Nick? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- for me, Jewishness is more about a set of elevated universal values than about simple ethnicity: love of learning and scholarship, the quest for truth and universal justice, charity and philanthropy, love of family, etc. Focusing too much on the ethnic nationalist side of the Jewish tradition draws attention away from the values which matter most, and which command the greatest... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, if you love Jews and Judaism so much, show some respect to the Jewish people, and try to get to know them. Not just their ideas, but what makes them who they are.Keep it up, we may convert you one of these days! hahhahhahahahhaha ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- I have already shown great respect and affection for many Jews, but on the basis of their individual achievements. I neither love nor hate entire ethnic groups -- that is an attitude that is walking perilously close to primitive racism. Ethnic groups are abstractions -- what matters is the individual behavior of members of those groups, and the ways in which those individuals... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, I wish what you have just said were true, but you have attacked, marginalized, labeled and called irrational me and my Jewish friends all other FriendFeed. If you want rationality from me, Noah, Akiva, and other Jewish friendffeders, you should show us respect, or we will just feed you Sean haz a Cheezburger! ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- is it fair to say that you, Noah David Simon and Akiva Moskovitz are religious Zionists whose views do not reflect those of the large majority of Jews? We have honest intellectual disagreements. I have treated you all with civility and offered you the opportunity to express your views at whatever length you choose. I am under no obligation to automatically agree with whatever... more... - Sean McBride

I never said I am a Zionist, but you have labeled me as one. I do not know if Noah is religious or a Zionist, you need to ask him. I do not even know if Akiva is a Zionist and religious. You are jumping to conclusions and labeling us, and then you have the audacity to call us irrational for having certain believes or not! What is rational, something that you determine is so and approve?... more... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- religious Zionism is by definition the belief that Israel and Zionism (the ethnic nationalist movement founded by Theodor Herzl) is a sacred enterprise ordained by God and originating in biblical commandments. Leading Jewish and Israeli scholars have written hundreds of valuable books on the subject -- check them out on Amazon.com. There is nothing defamatory about the term --... more... - Sean McBride

One admires Einstein because he made revolutionary contributions to physics that were grounded in reality. He was a brilliant universalist, not a strident ethnic nationalist. - Sean McBride

Again with libels, who are you calling Strindent Ethnic Nationalist? Go read my blog, go read Noah's blog. Get to know something about us, besides your first perception of us because Scoble called us Jerks and blocked us. If you are intelligent man, do you need Scoble to guide your judgement? LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- if you can explain how your views differ from those of religious Zionists, do so. You have repeatedly invoked "God" as the driving force behind Israel, right? In the world of politics, the invocation of God to justify one's actions is usually the projection of the will to power by various interest groups. Anyone can play that game. - Sean McBride

Why are you asking me about God? Read the bible. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Thanks for making my case once again. - Sean McBride

case? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

The following is mainly of anecdotic value, but in a sense symptomatic of the "spirit" of any "Sean-imaginary" understanding the Israeli villains should be seeking with their Palestinian brethren: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News... (fetched from Israeli press, ergo obviously biased against, etc, etc.) - ianf ⌘

Sean, I feel that your circular rhetoric polemic agreement is just for the sake of arguing. You like to debate! LOL If not, what is the point of all of this? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor, your reasoning about Sean's reasoning being circular is also circular - endlessly debating is what we do here in lieu of throwing physical objects at one another. Of course it's circular! But so is objecting to it being merely for argument's sake… - ianf ⌘

lets play chess LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

ianf -- It's a pity that the PA didn't give Daniel Barenboim a deserved warm and generous welcome. The grievances on both sides are now so many and so bitter that one sees no light at the end of this tunnel. - Sean McBride

Pity had nothing to do with it. It's sheer lunacy mixed with inferiority complex in search of imaginary moral compensation. Let's call a spade a spade. - ianf ⌘

ianf -- the parties to this conflict are trapped in an infinite loop of tit-for-tat. Most of us would like to steer clear of that particular mess and of ethnic and religious wars in general. There is a better way to live. Members of all ethnic and religious groups are studying, working and socializing side-by-side at universities like Stanford, MIT and Caltech. It's the American Way. - Sean McBride

Really? Was that PA's tit, or its tat? (I get lost so easily). So what should be the Israeli(?), or merely the Barenboimist falange's "proportional response" to that, the one that'd find favor with the Middle-Eastern commentariat? - ianf ⌘

ianf -- read Benny Morris's first book, and you'll appreciate the historical context: book(Benny Morris; The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949; 1989; Cambridge University Press; http://www.amazon.com/dp...) Situations like this can be remembered for centuries, or even longer. - Sean McBride

Sean, re emigration exceeding immigration - that has been true probably since the State was established. However, more and more yordim (emigrants) are returning to Israel, and as I said above, more and more new immigrants are arriving. Emigration may still exceed immigration, but there is a growing feeling among world Jewry that they are not welcome in their countries (I wonder why). As... more... - Miriam

Sean, if you want to be taken seriously, and dazzle us now and then with –not only your obvious scholarship– but also more mundane abilities such as correctly editing Amazon's urls down to their universal minimalist form (which hasn't escaped my attention), then you should consider answering direct on-topical questions directly, rather than veer off onto tangential issues. Especially as... more... - ianf ⌘

ianf -- Israelis have many places to go, and are often going there: the United States and Europe are favorite destinations. Every argument that has been proposed to counter the (alleged) CIA scenario was used to "prove" that there was no conceivable way that white South Africa could collapse. (I am used to seeing outrageous and obviously impossible predictions come true -- I've made a few myself. There is a black art to this kind of thing.) - Sean McBride

ianf, you're my hero!! But what I don't understand is how you can continue this conversation with Sean. It feels like 'cow chewing cud' - Myrna

Ianf, these are the words that lifted you to 'my hero' status, not far from where it was already! "Sean, if you want to be taken seriously, and dazzle us now and then with –not only your obvious scholarship.." Sean, you should LISTEN to Ianf, not just reply back in gobblie-gook. - Myrna

Miriam -- Israel is now in sharp conflict with the entire world (and especially the Western democratic world) over several issues: the West strongly opposes Israeli settlements in the occupied territories; strongly opposes a military attack on Iran; strongly opposes Israel's racist foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman; and strongly supports the creation of a viable Palestinian state.... more... - Sean McBride

A basic rule of social behavior: if you are bogged down in angry confrontations about your ethnic issues with ethnic outsiders, you have already lost. There is no conceivable way that you can win. This is a fundamental feature of human nature that is so obvious that it is difficult to understand how anyone could miss it. - Sean McBride

Sean, you are so in your head/intellectualizing every second. Do you ever pause? I can't put my finger on it exactly but your words just don't make sense to me. Maybe Ianf can help on this one. It's like you're talking in 'bible semantics' where one has to translate and read between the lines to understand what Sean is really saying or feeling. What is YOUR point in all this. How do you feel about what you're saying? - Myrna

Tell you something, Sean… you're so Full-o-Solutions™ and Clear-o-Thinking® in Middle-Eastern matters, that it'd be a pity not to to listen to what you have to say. Maybe, just maybe, you are the Messiah, or at least some other Promethean Messenger personified who, if given half a chance, will make the Arabs, and the Israelis, sit down in proscribed Sean-approved manner, and chew on... more... - ianf ⌘

LOOOOOOOOOOOL! Now I can go meditate and smile, Ianf - Myrna

ianf -- I don't have any solutions to Israel's problems in the Mideast. I think this situation is going to end as a catastrophe, in the precisely the same way that I think that the newspaper industry has no future. This stuff is not difficult to figure out. Any student of history knows that ethnic nationalism ran out of steam and legitimacy midway through the 20th century. Which ethnic nationalist movements around the world do you support besides your own? - Sean McBride

Myrna -- no offense, but I haven't seen you post anything resembling a rational thought in this thread or any other on Friendfeed. I am curious: do you side with the American government or the Israeli government on the matter of settlements, Avigdor Lieberman, a Palestinian state, a war against Iran, etc.? In what sense are you actually a progressive? You are highly emotional about defending one of the most right-wing regimes on the planet. Why? - Sean McBride

[Cont'd] Of course, there's always the possibility that you're a false Messiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...) who's not even aware of being either that or, perhaps, a true one after all… "you meet all kinds in this line of work" [Mark Knopfler]. That would make your starting point for building a lasting peace in the Middle East harder, but not by much, considering the immensity of the project. - ianf ⌘

Sean, who says I'm defending anyone or anything? My gripe is the way you present your thoughts and feelings. It's effect is pushing me away. And about presenting a rational thought, maybe I'm not rational or maybe you just haven't followed my thinking or feeling. I have no 'blanket' black or white decisions or 'sidings'. Every single situation presents a different and new dimension of a... more... - Myrna

Myrna -- please: it's obvious that criticism of Israel pushes your emotional buttons. If those kinds of posts upset you, and if you are unable to express your disagreement with them in a rational way, you should simply stop reading them. These posts of yours in this thread are embarrassing. - Sean McBride

ianf -- you still haven't addressed the main point: how is ethnic nationalism, particularly ethnic nationalism based on religion, anything but an irritant in human affairs, and especially in the modern Western democratic context? Why do you think it is that so many Americans and Europeans have grown weary with Mideast tribal wars based on primitive myths and superstitions? Most... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, I will address that [highly interesting btw] point when you respond straight the few simple questions you chose to bypass above; do we have a deal? - ianf ⌘

ianf, Miriam, Myrna and Igor: currently I am getting my news about Mideast politics from this bundle of feeds: http://friendfeed.com/mideast... What are your sources? Mideast politics is like every other topic under the sun, including cutting-edge tech topics and research fronts: the better your sources of information, the more likely you are to make accurate predictions. If you... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, you have indicated at least 10 different so-so-solutions for the Middle East, all of them stemming from an Israel-is-the-villain position. Indeed, there's no end to Israeli, if not Jewish, transgressions upon their peace-loving, ethnic-nationalism-pure fellow Palestinians [yes, Sean, there was a time still in human memory, time of the Ottoman Empire and then British Palestina... more... - ianf ⌘

You don't have to tell me Sean where you get your news "about Mideast politics" from, I already know that: Google searches and <http://friendfeed.com/mideast...>. That's some scholarship shining through right there. - ianf ⌘

ianf -- where do you get your news about Mideast politics from? What feeds do you follow? - Sean McBride

following this thread and McBride is much more in depth than that - sofarsoShawn

ianf -- "Israel-is-the-villain position" -- that's the paranoid and self-absorbed ethnocentric lens through which to view this controversy. I think ethnic nationalism and religious fundamentalism collectively and in general are the villain. Anyone who plays that game will inevitably get stuck in the same self-destructive patterns, over and over again. Why do you think it is that America... more... - Sean McBride

"Myrna -- please: it's obvious that criticism of Israel pushes your emotional buttons. If those kinds of posts upset you, and if you are unable to express your disagreement with them in a rational way, you should simply stop reading them. These posts of yours in this thread are embarrassing" Gee Shawn, it wasn't my intention to cause a defensive comment from you. Who are my posts embarrassing to and if its you please feel free to delete. Good luck to you! - Myrna

Myrna -- I think your intention has been to try to disrupt this thread with nonsense -- one sees this kind of behavior all the time in discussions about Mideast politics -- it's standard operating procedure. Many important issues have been raised in this thread -- you haven't addressed any of them. - Sean McBride

Myrna, you're much too kind, I can write this stuff with (still unpainted) toes of me left foot. You should have watched me some other times (and you will) when I was called names because my opponents could not respond coherently to rational arguments [once exposed, they tend to leave FF]. Sean uses some of the same tactics, but he's also driven by the fixed idea of the Middle East... more... - ianf ⌘

Some issues in play in this thread: American interests, American trans-ethnic values, American universalist values, apartheid white South Africa, Avigdor Lieberman, Christian Armageddonists, Christian Zionists, Confederacy, ethnic discrimination, ethnic nationalism, ethno-religious nationalism, European interests, false messianic movements, Iran War, Iranian oil, Iraq War, Israeli... more... - Sean McBride

Very worthy list, Sean. You forgot copycat Lego bricks (a huge problem worldwide); cow-originating CO2 and methane emissions, and a couple more. Throw them all into the mix, and what do you get? Why, another Nakba! - ianf ⌘

ianf -- some people have a talent for playing around with the Lego bricks and coming up with provably correct and reality-based conclusions and predictions on a fairly consistent basis. They can read the tea leaves, see the most strategic patterns in the noise. That's the black art of political, social and cultural forecasting. - Sean McBride

The first step in the black art: set aside all your biases, emotional attachments and earnest agendas, and look at the data with cold eyes. When the data goes against you, don't flinch. Eat the pain. Readjust your beliefs and plans. Or not -- and end up like Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, white South Africa, Iraq War enthusiasts, the newspaper industry, the American automotive industry, etc. - Sean McBride

@SB: one of the common elements i see running through prescient geo-politcal analysis is that the successful commentators 1) have an excellent knowledge of history; 2) have the ability to find links and similarities between seemingly disparate events/topics; 3) are able to get beyond the parochial aspects of a topic and expose the underlying assumptions and biases in typical 'framing'... more... - MikeAmundsen

Mike -- beautifully said. Successful prognosticators are able to absorb huge amounts of data from diverse sources, see all the subtle and unusual links among the data in creative ways, but still grasp the big picture and how all the vectors are interacting and are likely to interact in the future, while setting aside their own desires, wishes and biases. Unsuccessful prognosticators are... more... - Sean McBride

Mike -- I've mentioned Kevin Phillips' "American Theocracy" several times lately, which I recently listened to in audiobook format in my car. Phillips is a perfect example of a political analyst who is able to make successful prognostications on the basis of an objective analysis of reams of data, both contemporary and historical. [book(Kevin Phillips; American Theocracy: The Peril and... more... - Sean McBride

As Myrna said, after a while it gets tiring. May I therefore direct those of you who still care to this new summarizing item: http://ff.im/5mnZf - ianf ⌘

ianf -- that's an innovative use of Friendfeed to post research sources -- I like it. As for the topic becoming tiresome: that is precisely my point. Most Americans and Europeans would love to drop it (including most American and European Jews, I suspect). One possible scenario/solution on the horizon: an amicable divorce between the U.S./Europe and Israel. Those with an appetite for an endless loop of holy land mayhem will always be free to move there and to enjoy the apocalyptic festivities. - Sean McBride

@Sean I'm sorry, but comparing the current Israeli / Palestinian situation to the fall of South African apartheid, much less the rise of Nazi Germany is bizarrely absurd, even for you. The context is so far from similar that I find it rather shocking you'd even try to make the connection - all the more so given your continual attempts to point out everyone else's framing distortions,... more... - Forrest Cox

Forrest Cox -- browse through the above comments: the comparisons to apartheid white South Africa are coming from a former Israeli prime minister, a former American president and from many leading and influential political thinkers around the world. Google it -- you will be deluged. From my standpoint, you are in denial. How many non-Jews are welcome in Israeli settlements in the... more... - Sean McBride

Forrest: the discussion on Israeli/South African connections around the world is immense: http://www.google.com/#q=~isr... Try to do an objective analysis of the subject. - Sean McBride

@Sean - your quote re: the former Israeli PM is taken out of context, former American Presidents have proven about as astute in predicting the future as has the crazy Christian bible salesman yelling to the high heavens about the apocalypse down on the corner of Market and 8th, and "leading" and "influential" thinkers have been responsible for over and over again for calamity after... more... - Forrest Cox

@SB: yep, KPhillips has done some very interesting work. personally, i find his books a 'tough slog,' but that's for me to deal with<g>. i readily admit there are lots of things about Phillips' views i don't care for, but i have learned a great deal from him. his "Wealth and Democracy" was quite a read! - MikeAmundsen

@Sean - re: the links, thanks so much for proving my point about you. Put no thought at all into the inherent biases held by the authors you refer to (might they be apt to compare Israel to one of the most bigoted and oppressive regimes of the late-20th century, despite the obvious mechanistic differences between the two, because they, you know, HATE Israel?). Claim that their thinking,... more... - Forrest Cox

Me think Sean is just a Troll. LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Forrest Cox -- Ehud Olmert hates Israel? The only pro-Israel supporters I am aware of who use that kind of inciting language with regard to Israeli prime ministers are extremists on the far right. One of them assassinated Yitzhak Rabin. - Sean McBride

I file these Forrest Cox comments under "attacks on Americans and Europeans by pro-Israel activists and militants." This is the trendline to watch if you want to understand the future of Israel and its increasing self-ghettoization, especially in relation to the Western democratic world. I've stopped taking the attacks personally -- many American, European and Israeli political leaders have endured much worse from the Israeli right. - Sean McBride

Forrest Cox: check out this Haaretz report: article(Gideon Levy; Twilight Zone / 'Worse than apartheid'; Haaretz; July 7, 2008 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen...) Human rights activists with direct experience of apartheid white South Africa characterized conditions in Israel as being WORSE than in South Africa: "I thought they would feel right at home in the alleys of... more... - Sean McBride

More from Haaretz: "Equally harsh are the remarks of the editor-in-chief of the Sunday Times of South Africa, Mondli Makhanya, 38. "When you observe from afar you know that things are bad, but you do not know how bad. Nothing can prepare you for the evil we have seen here. In a certain sense, it is worse, worse, worse than everything we endured. The level of the apartheid, the racism... more... - Sean McBride

This is the Mideast political news that I am flagging on a daily basis as important: https://friendfeed.com/search... (These flexible Friendfeed URLs are cool.) - Sean McBride

Forrest: more from Haaretz: "Under apartheid, whites and blacks met in certain places. The Israelis and the Palestinians do not meet any longer at all. The separation is total. It seems to me that the Israelis would like the Palestinians to disappear. There was never anything like that in our case. The whites did not want the blacks to disappear. I saw the settlers in Silwan [in East Jerusalem] - people who want to expel other people from their place." - Sean McBride

Sean, go live in Israel. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Sean, your obsession with Israel is puzzling to me, as is the obsession of others like you who have the whole world's humanitarian transgressions to get up-in-arms about but choose to focus obsessively on Israel (how about China, Sudan, Iran, Egypt, etc.?). Why do Sudanese refugees risk their lives to get over the border from Egypt into Israel (many of whom have been shot and killed by... more... - Miriam

Miriam -- are you coming from an Orthodox Jewish perspective on Zionist and Israeli issues? Which authors and sources have most influenced your thinking on the subject? Which political party in Israel do you favor? Do you support Jewish settlements in the occupied territories? Do you support any ethnic nationalist movements other than your own? And can you provide some examples of Jews... more... - Sean McBride

Miriam: and: can you think of any good reasons for why the American government pays very close attention to Mideast politics, and to Israeli politics in particular? Why are the American media so "obsessed" with the topic? - Sean McBride

Sean, it's not only the US gov. that's obsessed with Israel. It's the world. There doesn't seem to be any logical reason for this. There are so many other places with way worse human rights records that the world basically ignores, while obsessing over Israel. If you have an answer I'd love to hear it. - Miriam

Miriam -- there is a simple answer to your question: 1. American taxpayers provide Israel with huge amounts of aid, and the United States is held responsible, often in ways that are destructive for Americans, for all of Israel's policies and actions. 2. The Israeli government has been pursuing a policy of territorial expansion that could easily trigger World War III/IV and reduce the entire world to chaos and ruin. - Sean McBride

I see my comment has been deleted from this thread. that is pathetic. the CIA has statistics that you don't have and the recent demographic analysis are that the demographic ratios are equal growth despite what you are attempting to promote. this goes in contradiction of your argument. if anything Obama has given Israel sympathy because his blatant equivalence of fault and abuse is so... more... - Noah David Simon

"Now (to change the metaphor), the truth has finally got its pants on, and Israel’s Foreign Ministry has released an exhaustive 164-page report which argues that Israel had a right to do what it did under international law, that what it did was not callous, disproportionate or criminal, and — of course — that much of what it was accused of it didn’t do .Those who need to, like Judge... more... - Noah David Simon

Does CriticalAnalyst = Noah David Simon? Noah -- you're missing the big picture, especially the big social/historical picture: messianic ethno-religious nationalist movements of all kinds (like apartheid white South Africa, for instance) are innately self-marginalizing, unstable and unviable in the modern democratic world. Militant ethnocentrism polarizes the entire world against... more... - Sean McBride

no prejudices in Israel. we just don't like hiding behind trees - Noah David Simon

Noah -- how does your comment address the point that messianic ethno-religious nationalist movements of all kinds are self-destructively out of step with modern Western democratic norms and values? How many Friendfeeders do you see bogged down in ethnocentric politics? - Sean McBride

Great conversation (although having blocked Igor, Noah, et als. long ago, it feels a little fragmented, likely for the better).. Miriam, I agree that some people have it out for Israel. But just because some are obsessed doesn't mean they're wrong. I also share Sean's assessment that Israel's actions are often counterproductive to the US’ long-term interests in the region and the world. Yet it seems to me that historically, here in the states, Israel can do no wrong. That needs to change. - Anthony Citrano

Anthony -- pro-Israel activists are responsible for placing Israel at the center of American politics -- they can't stop talking about Israel and Israel's problems, conflicts and enemies. Compare the frequency with which Israel has been mentioned in The New York Times in recent decades with, say, France, Ireland or Japan. At the moment, Israel is the only nation in the world... more... - Sean McBride

messianic thought is modern western thought. it is in no way out of step with goal oriented thinking. believing in an eventuality of a different set of rules is a positive thing in that it allows people to work towards a better world without thinking that they have to be violent till a radical change in physics occurs. the same can not be said of Islam. as for the NYTimes they are wrong... more... - Noah David Simon

Noah -- you're not logically tracking this argument: the issue is messianic *ethno-religious nationalism*. Modern Western democracies do not organize themselves around messianic ethnocentrism or religiosity. The core principle of Americanism is equality of ethnic groups and religions, with an emphasis on individual character, talent and achievement, not on ethnicity or religious affiliation. Modern Western democracies prize individualism and meritocracy. - Sean McBride

Look around you, Noah: how many Friendfeeders are bogged down in ethnic politics, and in ugly confrontations about their ethnic issues? Most Americans discarded this style of politics a long time ago for reasons of enlightened social behavior and simple self-interest. - Sean McBride

you are just full of labels. everyone has a goal and if they don't they are in trouble. you are trying to find a way to other something, but the thing you fear is "Western" thought in itself. Judaism is the root of it all. there were some "theories" that were developed by pagans, but they were never applicable till they were adapted into monotheistic structures. those theories that did... more... - Noah David Simon

Thank G-d we have our prophecies to guide us and G-d's protection to keep Israel strong while the rest of the world falls apart. Get America and the U.K. out of Israel so we can stand strong without any fear of our enemies and be the light unto the nations that we were chosen to be. - David C. Cooper

one facet of Judaic thought is condescended by another. we have no problem with this. we are both a race and a philosophy. every rule leveraged by another wise idea. sound familiar? it is what America is made of. even the essence of our heredity is condescended by the very royal family that is the legend that you hate so much. yes the lineage of the messiah. Soloman's children were not... more... - Noah David Simon

Noah -- all ethno-religious nationalist movements justify their anti-democratic (and often racist) beliefs and behavior with cult mythologies and mysticism. But modern Western democracies are no longer interested in playing that game. The United States, for instance, does not define itself as an Anglo-Christian state or Germany as an Germanic-Christian state (in the ethnic and religious... more... - Sean McBride

you just assumed I claimed ethnicity when I said the opposite. since your peanut gallery is blocking me they are going to assume you repeated what I said. this is unethical. tautological and your audience does not even see my words they only see your accusation which just ignored everything I just said and made an accusation that was the exact opposite. conversation is over. the other... more... - Noah David Simon

Noah -- are you claiming that Zionism isn't an ethnic nationalist movement? No serious historian (including no serious Jewish historian) will agree with you -- Zionism is a classical ethnic nationalist movement. And Zionism is not remotely synonymous with Judaism -- most of the founders of Zionism and Israel were secular humanists, atheists, agnostics or Marxists. As for your repeated... more... - Sean McBride

From an excellent Wikipedia entry on ethnic nationalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... "Ethnic nationalism is a form of nationalism wherein the "nation" is defined in terms of ethnicity. Whatever specific ethnicity is involved, ethnic nationalism always includes some element of descent from previous generations. Furthermore, the central theme of ethnic nationalists is... more... - Sean McBride

Ethnic nationalism vs. civic nationalism (from Wikipedia): "In scholarly literature, ethnic nationalism is usually contrasted with civic nationalism. Ethnic nationalism bases membership of the nation on descent or heredity—often articulated in terms of common blood or kinship—rather than on political membership. Hence, nation-states with strong traditions of ethnic nationalism tend to... more... - Sean McBride

More from Wikipedia: "Ethnic nationalism has sustained criticism because of its use by extremists to advocate racist agendas and genocide, such as the case of Nazi Germany and its extermination of millions of Jews and other ethnic and cultural groups during the Holocaust. More recent acts of violence that used ethnic nationalism as a justification include ethnic cleansing such as the... more... - Sean McBride

Let me try to start unraveling some of Noah's statements: NOAH: "one facet of Judaic thought is condescended by another. we have no problem with this. we are both a race and a philosophy. every rule leveraged by another wise idea. sound familiar? it is what America is made of. even the essence of our heredity is condescended by the very royal family that is the legend that you hate so... more... - Sean McBride

he probably means contradicted - John Hardy

Sean McBride doesn't engage you in dialog. a Jewish and yes Zionist philosophy (same thing) can not be ethnically based if others can join it. example is that my son is not a Jew by the government of Israel. he can choose to become one if he wants when he is ready. @IgorTheTroll2 is a #Mossad operative. Watch out @Hamas - Noah David Simon

Noah -- do Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Asians, Arabs, etc. enjoy equal status, rights, privileges, wealth and power with Jews in Israel? If America defined itself as a Christian state which offered special treatment and privileges for Christians and which discriminated against non-Christians, it wouldn't be a modern Western democracy. Imagine if the United States were now building Anglo-Christian settlements in Canada or Mexico by force and against the will of Canadians and Mexicans. - Sean McBride

Noah -- regarding your repeated invocations of Mossad in a threatening way: how many Friendfeeders, and how many Americans, make violent threats against their ethnic or religious enemies on a regular basis? Messianic ethno-religious nationalism (and much of the tradition of Abrahamic fundamentalism in general) is closely associated with extreme aggression, violence and terrorism. Modern... more... - Sean McBride

Mossad is a keyword that jew haters use online. we co opted it for search reasons. Igor believes you search the word regularly. I'm the one who has to hide behind a tree in the name of your toleration (as Islam states). it is not ethnic related to fear a philosophy that says it wants to kill you - Noah David Simon

Noah, what are you afraid of? If you live in fear, you are better to be dead! If we die in the battle for Israel, then we die because we have not loved Israel enough. Israel, is Life it is what God gave tus so we do not forget Adonay. Live your life and do not fear, for when it is time, God will be near. Baruch Hashem, Amein - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Kahanists have been using the term "Mossad" to issue threats against Americans and Europeans, not a smart move in a climate in which concerns about Mideast terrorism are at an all-time high and in which the life of the current American president, Barack Obama, is being threatened on a daily basis. Kahanist groups are officially designated as terrorist groups by the American government,... more... - Sean McBride

Noah: notice to whom David Cooper directs his hostility: it's not Hamas; it's America and the UK: "Thank G-d we have our prophecies to guide us and G-d's protection to keep Israel strong while the rest of the world falls apart. Get America and the U.K. out of Israel so we can stand strong without any fear of our enemies and be the light unto the nations that we were chosen to be." By... more... - Sean McBride

Apropos the CIA forecast, just published today: "Livni: Israelis desperate to leave country" http://www.ynetnews.com/article... "Opposition chairman says hundreds of thousands of Israelis searching or ways to move abroad in light of grim political situation in country, government's lack of vision" ... ""I see the despair of many Israelis. Hundreds of thousands see... more... - Sean McBride

Sean McBride labeling people as Kahanists is libel and defamation! If you have proof, then show it. If you do not, do not harass people and organization.by hiding behind Web anonymity and terrorizing people! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Which organization are you referring to? - Sean McBride

Igor just turned down five opportunities to explain which organization was unfairly accused of being a Kahanist group. Instead, he tried to change the subject by talking about the IRA (Irish nationalism is a non-existent topic on Friendfeed and on the Internet in general). The question is still on the table for Igor (or Noah, ianf or David Cooper): which organization was unfairly accused of being a Kahanist group? - Sean McBride

Sean, see you on Wikipedia! Try not to give yourself too many Anti-Semitic awards! ADL will come looking for you! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- you just issued another threat, among dozens of such documented threats, and you still didn't mention which organization you think was unfairly accused of Kahanism. To which organization were you referring? - Sean McBride

Threats? What threats? I am just a Troll surfing on friendfeed! You the one libeling and and accusing people and organizations! I hope ADL looking into your web activities. I am sure American government does not fancy them either! And if you have a question about anyone, talk to them. Why you asking me? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- which organization was libeled? You still haven't mentioned it. I didn't mention any organization. To which organization are you referring? Your repeated invocations of Mossad certainly qualify as threats in the eyes of most objective observers -- whom do you think you are kidding? - Sean McBride

Traits, features and policies often associated with Kahanism: anti-Arab bigotry, anti-black bigotry, anti-Christian bigotry, anti-European bigotry, anti-Muslim bigotry, assassinations, bombings, charges of anti-Semitism, deportation ("transfer") of Palestinians, Greater Israel, group violence, illegal spying and espionage, malicious hacking, personal attacks, pro-Israel militancy,... more... - Sean McBride

Wow & whoa! - Roney Smith

Here is the Wikipedia entry on Kahanism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Sean McBride

Right Sean McBride, Thanks for reverting my Gilad Shalit Tweet4Shalit edit on Wikipedia. You are such a Human Rights activist for Islamic Terrorist organization Hamas! You must be very proud of yourself! Stick some more Keywords into your semantic search! You going to delete this also Sean Hoyland? Go complain to a Wikipedia admin! LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Saw who this was from and had to laugh. Why don't you throw in a Sept. 11 conspiracy too! - Spencer

Why not Armageddon as well? The Jews want to blow up the WORLD! LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor: I know nothing about your Wikipedia entry on Gilad Shalit, have never heard of Sean Hoyland, detest Muslim fundamentalism (and all forms of religious fundamentalism) and find many of your and Noah's posts to be incoherent and incomprehensible. You still haven't mentioned which organization you think was falsely accused as Kahanist: which is it? - Sean McBride

Spencer -- didn't you buy into all the bogus conspiracy theories foisted by neoconservatives on naive Bush/Cheney supporters (for instance, the claim that Saddam was behind 9/11 and that al-Qaeda was behind the 9/11 anthrax attacks)? Or was that a different Spencer? - Sean McBride

Note on how I moderate comments on my posts: substantive comments are welcome from everyone, and especially from those with views that oppose my own. Non-substantive or abusive comments I will often delete, because they derail substantive discussion. The name of the game here is to improve mutual understanding of issues. - Sean McBride

Sean, WTF why did you bring MY name into this? - David C. Cooper

Oh, I see it now. So, Sean you agree with American financial support of Muslim terrorist organizations Fatah and Hamas? - David C. Cooper

David Cooper -- I strongly oppose American financial or political support for religious fundamentalist groups of all kinds, including Muslim fundamentalist groups. Your assumption is wrong. You give the impression in one of your comments above that you view the United States and Britain as your enemies and as the enemies of Israel. Care to clarify? Here is your statement: "Thank G-d we... more... - Sean McBride

Certainly, I think the financial support of Israel and her enemies by other countries has been the biggest source of instability for that region. The entire middle east would find it's own stability if other nations would stop sending money to Israel and her enemies. BTW, what happened to my original post? I can't find it. - David C. Cooper

Incidentally, if you don't think Israel should be a Jewish state, why is it okay for 22 nations in that same region to only allow Muslim citizens? All of those countries are much larger than Israel yet you don't seem to worry or care that they discriminate against non-Muslims not only as citizens but even as visitors. - David C. Cooper

Furthermore, why is it okay for those 22 nations to sponsor the pseudo nation of "palestine" as a proxy in their fight against the return of the relatively tiny Israelite homeland to Her people? - David C. Cooper

David -- to find your original post open http://friendfeed.com/mideast... and then do a full text search on the page for "G-d" -- it's still there. - Sean McBride

David -- few people object to Israel being a Jewish state (I don't), but they expect Israel to be a Jewish state in the same way that France is a French state -- as a state of all its citizens, from all ethnic and religious backgrounds, as a modern Western democratic state. If Israel seeks to become a Jewish state in a narrow ethnic and religious sense, it will suffer the same fate as... more... - Sean McBride

David -- actually, the idea of the United States and Europe disengaging completely from both sides in the Israeli/Arab-Muslim conflict has a certain appeal. - Sean McBride

David -- does one deduce correctly from your original statement the following? 1. Religion and politics are seamlessly enwoven for you. 2. God is on the side of Israel vs. the nations and the rest of the world (including the United States and UK). 3. Israelis are the chosen people and a light unto the nations. 4. Israel is in great shape, thanks to God, but the rest of the world is falling apart. 5. You have many ethnic and religious enemies. - Sean McBride

Sean, so where is the outcry against the narrow ethnic and religious governments of the 22 Muslim nations that surround and make war against the Israelite nation and the western non-Muslim world? If western democratic society is such a champion of freedom and liberty why would they focus on Israel, where people of all ethnicities and religions are welcome while they ignore the rest of the middle east where only Muslims are allowed to tread? - David C. Cooper

David -- Israel is asking Americans and Europeans to make enormous sacrifices for Israelis on the supposed moral grounds that Israel is a modern Western democratic state and a member in good standing in the Western democratic community. If in fact Israel morphs into a Jewish version of apartheid white South Africa, it is going to be impossible to justify that support. Israel will go its... more... - Sean McBride

1. For the children of Israel G-d gave us the form of government under which we are to thrive, any other form is a poor substitute. 2. G-d is on the side of his entire creation which is why he gave his Torah to the children of Israel. The fact that only the children of Israel were willing and able to accept his word at Mount Sinai does not change His love for the people of all nations.... more... - David C. Cooper

What "sacrifices" does Israel ask of any other nation? It seems the other nations are asking Israel to make all of the sacrifices. Why should Jews not be allowed to build on their own land? Why should Israel be told that they must allow their enemies to settle in Israel but not allow a Jew to build a tree house? Realpolitik does not justify the hypocrisy. - David C. Cooper

the state with the most money in U.S. aid since 1993 is Palestine. that argument of Israel getting the most funding is false. Egypt gets similar numbers to Israel. further the funding of Israel if compared to the numbers involved in US military expenses would be around a penny to a dollar. the US military gets more back with support to Israel then from their own military. the moment... more... - Noah David Simon

BS - Stephan Romeo

ahem... and when labor said something similar in the 90s when Netanyahu's government had their first run, the statistics of the Jewish population ratio to Muslims improved. not to mention that Bibi was a lot more conservative then. I'm not very worried about Livni's opinions. Livni wanted badly to be a proxy to Jewish ethnic cleansing. ghetto Jew mentality. JudenRatts are all over the place... right Myrna? - Noah David Simon

David -- I respect your right to hold your religious beliefs, but others are under no obligation to share those beliefs. They may even find them to be irritating and unpalatable, in the same way you no doubt find many Christian and Muslim beliefs to be irritating and unpalatable (have you accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and savior yet? :)). To make matters worse, you are bundling... more... - Sean McBride

Noah -- the abusive and demonizing language that you and many others are using against Livni -- "Jewish ethnic cleansing, ghetto Jew mentality, JudenRatts" -- is one of several reasons why many political analysts think that Israel's political future is problematic. You can't construct a viable and stable civil society on this kind of fanaticism. And it is disturbing and scary to see... more... - Sean McBride

Most Friendfeed users, and most Americans, are not aggressive, abrasive, abusive and demanding about their ethnic and religious interests. If they were, American society would be reduced to violent chaos, to a state of permanent civil war and internecine savagery -- much like parts of the Mideast. - Sean McBride

Sean, if that's true then why is Israel, where all people of all religions and ethnicities are welcomed to worship in the Holy Land, demonized while all of the neighboring muslim apartheid states are either ignored or excused for their "ethno-religious" nationalism? - David C. Cooper

Sean, your claim that "most" Americans are not aggressive, abrasive, abusive and demanding is laughable! All over the world Americans are accused of exactly that kind of behavior especially when it comes to their ethnic and religious interests. There is a special interest group active in American politics for every religious and ethnic concern imaginable. - David C. Cooper

I have to agree though, that the continued existence of Israel defies all logic. Thank G-d, considering the number of enemies that surround her it is a miracle that she survives to this day. - David C. Cooper

David -- an example: how many op-ed articles have been published by Irish nationalists in The New York Times or The Washington Post during the last decade? How many by Jewish nationalists and pro-Israel activists? This is countable in a precise way with standard content analysis, but I am guessing that the ratio must be at least 100 to 1 in terms of Jewish vs. Irish nationalists. What... more... - Sean McBride

What scares me is how far anti-Semites have come in the last 100 years. They're smart enough now to realize out and out hatred and bigotry will shut them down quickly, so they've shifted over to "discussions" in the guise of rational discourse. When in fact the message remains the same: Jews = bad. - Noah Belson

Sean, what does the ratio of Israel based op-ed pieces in the NYTimes compared to Ireland based op-ed pieces have to do with this discussion? Are you surprised that there is more discussion about the Holy Land than there is about Ireland? Can't you answer my first question? - David C. Cooper

Noah Belson -- the entire world (and the American government especially) strongly opposes Israeli settlements, Israeli agitation to start a war with Iran, and the presence of a flagrant racist, Avigdor Lieberman, at the highest levels of the Israeli government. Are you basically accusing the entire world of being antisemitic because of its opposition to Likud policies and religious... more... - Sean McBride

David -- the fact that pro-Israel activists and militants are highly conspicous in contemporary American culture, and are pushing a narrow ethno-religious nationalist agenda in ways that are often extremely abusive towards their fellow Americans (see, for instance, Pamela Geller's posts on Barack Obama), couldn't be more relevant to this discussion: Israel and the Israel lobby are... more... - Sean McBride

Noah David Simon just called Robert Scoble a "rat" -- comment deleted. - Sean McBride

David: the issue is not whether all ethnicities and religions are permitted to worship in "the Holy Land" (what a misnomer). The issue is whether all ethnicities and religions in Israel are treated with equality in their ability to acquire wealth, power and influence in Israel, and whether their religions enjoy equal status under a civic state (not an ethnic nationalist state with strong theocratic trappings). - Sean McBride

Instead of addressing the point that every nation in the world (including the American government) opposes the current Israeli government and Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, Noah Belson invoked the Nazi smear, with no substantive content. (Comment deleted. Try again.) - Sean McBride

Sean, if you can speak for the entire world, I think I can make logical conclusions based on your previous comments. This isn't about Israel, this is about angry, hateful people seeing their moment and trying to use Israel to push the door open a little bit wider. This sort of thing brings bigots out of their hidey holes and gives them just a little more courage, which for my money is a very dangerous thing. - Noah Belson

Noah -- name a single government in the world which supports Jewish settlements in the occupied territories. The American government and all European governments strongly oppose those settlements, and Israel is in fact on a collision course with the entire world. Are you accusing everyone who opposes the settlements (including a majority of American Jews) of being antisemites? Are you... more... - Sean McBride

Reminder: the comments in my feed should be civil, polite, well-informed, sensible and fact-based. Comments with vague personal attacks and verbal abuse will be deleted. Stay on point and be substantive. Others are free to edit their feeds any way that suits them. As usual, I am always intensely interested in strong opposing arguments that are well-grounded in reality. - Sean McBride

Sean, you said: "The issue is whether all ethnicities and religions in Israel are treated with equality in their ability to acquire wealth, power and influence in Israel" Then, why is this not the issue regarding the enemies of the West who surround Israel? The double standard is hypocritical. - David C. Cooper

David -- why should the West go out of its way to get involved in self-destructive and trillion-dollar wars in defense of political ideologies and systems that are in direct contradiction to its most hallowed values? Did the West lift a finger to defend white South Africa? Why do you think it is that both the Bush and Obama administrations have strongly opposed a military attack on... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, I've already suggested that the west should divest itself from financially supporting either side in this argument. I don't agree that Israel is a contradiction to western values. On the contrary, western values are a direct result of the values of the children of Israel. - David C. Cooper

David: core modern Western democratic values: separation of church and state; equal treatment of and status for all ethnicities and religious groups. Ethnic nationalist and theocratic states are radically incompatible with those values, and are out of step with the modern world. That is why the West abandoned white South Africa and let it sink like a stone. (This is why I also strongly... more... - Sean McBride

David -- I agree with you that Jewish values have played an enormously important role in creating the modern Western democratic world. But the Jewish tradition has evolved markedly over millennia -- it is not static. Most Jews are not biblical literalists, and many brilliant Jews have been in the vanguard in creating the modern world and its best institutions. (The ability of Jewish civilization and the Jewish tradition to evolve, adapt and remake itself is probably its greatest strength.) - Sean McBride

That last part must keep you up at night, huh Sean. Incidentally, you better delete my comments and block me now- something tells me you're not gonna like me. :) - Noah Belson

hmm - ALPER DURUKAN

Noah Belson -- I may like you if you manage to say something fresh and original about the dozens of ideas and facts that appear in the preceding comments in this thread, and show a Jewish ability to wrestle with difficult issues based on an inquiring open mind and a scholarly attention to details. So far I haven't seen much of that. If I want a goyishe kop, I'll torture myself with Rush... more... - Sean McBride

"UN rights chief slams Israel over Gaza violations" http://www.reuters.com/article... "Pillay said rights violations included arbitrary detention, torture and ill-treatment, extrajudicial execution, forced eviction and home demolition, settlement expansion and related violence and restrictions on freedom of movement and expression. "While these violations are of... more... - Sean McBride

White South Africa took an arrogant, dismissive and defiant attitude towards critiques of its behavior from the international community, and the rest, as they say, is history. They lost. As a rule, it is not in one's self-interest to get on the wrong side of the overwhelming mass of world opinion. Not smart. - Sean McBride

More from the Pillay report: "Pillay's recommendations included the following: -- Allegations of violations of humanitarian law and human rights during the Gaza war should be investigated by independent bodies, and victims should have the right to reparations. -- Israel should tackle impunity for violations, and curb its use of the military justice system, which does not meet... more... - Sean McBride

Noah Belson just departed in an inky cloud of emotional personal attacks (comment deleted), while failing to address a single substantive issue in this thread. Which raises an important point: if pro-Israel activists are unable to defend their views in a rational way in public forums around the world, what future does Israel have? The CIA report may be sage and prophetic indeed.... more... - Sean McBride

Two more abusive and content-free comments deleted, one by Noah Belson and one by Igor. They can't get on point or address substance. If they manage to make rational policy points that are free of personal attacks or verbal abuse, I'll let the comments stand and answer them. But their track record isn't promising. (This isn't a free speech issue, by the way. They are free to say... more... - Sean McBride

So this is indeed a free speech issue, then. Free speech isn't only about being free regarding the substance of your speech: who makes the call about what is form and what is substance? By making that call, you necessarily act as a censor, you see? Still, there's nothing wrong with admitting you will limit one's free speech to a certain form or mode of expression. - Rubin Sfadj

Rubin -- every time we choose a publication to read, we are making selections based on the editorial judgment and reputation of the publisher. Feeds are basically publications. The New York Times is not Fox News and Fox News is not the New York Times. They exercise their right of free speech to control their respective information streams. I have noticed through the years that personal... more... - Sean McBride

This thread is still wide open to anyone who wants to make civil and sensible comments in opposition to the speculation that Israel is on a self-destructive path that closely resembles that of apartheid white South Africa. There are many items in the thread that still haven't been addressed or rebutted. This is a big and complex subject - Sean McBride

"On Agha and Malley" (Stephen M. Walt) http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts... "The most significant lines in the entire essay were the last two, where they write "the heart of the matter is not necessarily how to define a state of Palestine. It is, in a sense it always has been, how to define the state of Israel." Again, they didn't explain what they meant by... more... - Sean McBride

Walt continued: "Or will Israel continue to pursue the dream of Greater Israel, increasingly fueled by ethno-religious claims and the growing political power of religious extremists? If so, then it will become an apartheid state and will eventually face a Palestinian struggle for democratic rights. Again: what sort of state will it become? Needless to say, these different visions will... more... - Sean McBride

Geoffrey Wheatcroft: "If there is a ‘tragedy of Zionism’ it is surely this. Without wanting to or even realising what was happening, the Jewish state has found itself on the wrong side of a much greater divide than the mere dispute between Jew and Arab. The reason for the global obsession with the Holy Land is that it has become a crucible, an epitome, a distilled version of a ‘clash of... more... - Sean McBride

http://mediaanalysiscritical.b... here are photographs of Jews in 1948 Judea that were thrown out of their homes when they had been there for millenniums. Are these the "occupiers" you speak of? the same "occupiers" of Germany just a few years before. the people kicking them out of Judea were aligned with those performing Christal... more... - Noah David Simon

McBride - do you not know the meaning of "Apartheid"? - JIDF

Noah -- are you arguing, then, that Israel should continue to build Jewish settlements in the occupied territories over the adamant opposition of every government in the world, including the American government? And should those settlements be for Jews only, not for members of all ethnic and religious backgrounds, including Christians, Muslims, Arabs, Buddhists, Chinese, etc? How do you see this narrative unfolding? - Sean McBride

OMG you must break the all time record for the longest running, in time span, for your threads JULY 15!!!!!!, >> *whispers* (maybe use disable comments?) - sofarsoShawn

Noah: regarding messianism: let me be clear that my critique of messianism is directed at all of its manifestations, in all cultures from all ethnic groups and religions, and including its secular expressions (Marxism, for instance, was a messianic movement.) Messianism, because it is based on onanistic fantasies, self-hypnosis, cultism and emotional hysteria, almost always leads to... more... - Sean McBride

McBride - Are you aware that the Fatah Constitution and Hamas Charter call for the complete destruction of Israel? That said, Israel SHOULD continue to expand, so as to deter their enemies' determination to destroy them. - JIDF

sofarsoShawn -- some topics generate a great deal of conversation because they have major strategic implications, even world historical implications -- this is one of those topics. The death of the newspaper industry and the American auto industry are others. The health care debate is another. I leave the comments open because I am curious to see if any new interesting ideas emerge. (By... more... - Sean McBride

JIDF -- most Americans, and all modern secular democracies, have placed their chips on a core idea: all ethnic and religious groups can live together in productive harmony, with equal rights and opportunities. If you want to go down the messianic ethno-religious nationalist path, be my guest -- but you will have to live with the consequences. A large majority of Jews would probably... more... - Sean McBride

JIDF: regarding apartheid: article(Gideon Levy; Twilight Zone / 'Worse than apartheid'; Haaretz; July 7, 2008 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen...) Human rights activists with direct experience of apartheid white South Africa characterized conditions in Israel as being WORSE than in South Africa: "I thought they would feel right at home in the alleys of Balata refugee camp,... more... - Sean McBride

Your first response to me makes no sense. Your second source relies upon an extreme leftist source, looking to push a political agenda. Try Myths vs. FACTS: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource... - JIDF

like hell it will. "CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years" read all about it. - nivcalderon

sofarsoShawn got me thinking: rank issues by strategic importance (by their impact on the world at large, on world history and on human civilization). Are there objective and scientific ways to achieve these rankings? Algorithms? Software tools? In any case, the world historical forces swirling around the vortex of Israel and the Mideast in general are immense. That region could be the graveyard of the human race. - Sean McBride

JIDF -- can you answer the specific charges in the Haaretz article in a specific way? They are coming from South African leaders who were the victims of apartheid -- they know the subject of apartheid up close and personal, much more intimately than we do. They are claiming that conditions in Israel are worse than in apartheid white South Africa. - Sean McBride

JIDF -- my first response to you makes a great deal of sense -- it is written in clear English prose. I pointed out to you that modern Western democracies prize ethnic and religious equality and cooperation, and that a large majority of Jews share those values. Messianic ethno-religious nationalist states are in radical conflict with the contemporary world. - Sean McBride

People already did, in the talkback section of the article. You're citing an anti-Israel activist intent on smearing the Jewish state. Lots of people do that. Your first response made no sense within the context of my comment, as I wasn't talking about any of that. Apparently you like to read your own words. That said, what's your point in all this? Are you looking forward to the... more... - JIDF

JIDF -- one point at a time: how do you rebut, in your own words and in a specific way, the charges made by South Africans, other than calling them "leftists"? Leftists opposed the apartheid white South African regime, they predicted its collapse, and they were right. The flow of world history is not on the side of ethnic nationalists and racists. Ehud Olmert, the former Israeli prime... more... - Sean McBride

Until you answer MY questions, I won't bother answering your tangents. - JIDF

Are you or are you not for the destruction of Israel? - JIDF

JIDF -- you don't seem to understand Friendfeed culture -- you play by the rules of the owner of the thread, which, in this case, is yours truly. But I will humor you for one instance: obviously I do not support the destruction of Israel. But I do support the reform of Israeli politics that will bring it into full alignment with modern Western democratic values and spare it the... more... - Sean McBride

Now your turn: do you support full equality for all ethnic and religious groups in Israel, both in law and in practice, and the separation of synagogue and state? And aren't "Jewish settlements" *by definition* a discriminatory enterprise when subsidized and endorsed by the state? Does the American government subsidize and endorse Anglo-Christian settlements? - Sean McBride

you claim that Israel is not "in full alignment' with Western democratic values. Please explain why. And I think it's vain of you to suggest that your POV is shared by every govt. on the planet. Just b/c you're reading some book on Messianic ideology, it does not mean everyone who disagrees with you is drawn into it. Israel is the Jewish State and I support it as such. I do not support... more... - JIDF

JIDF -- I answered your question directly and fully. Now you answer mine: do you support full equality for all ethnic and religious groups in Israel, both in law and in fact? That criterion is the core definition for modern Western democracies -- they are trans-ethnic, trans-religious and universalist in outlook, values and practice. - Sean McBride

JIDF: I just quickly scanned your recent Friendfeed feed and immediately noticed this: "JIDF: certainly there's a Jewess out there w/ an appreciation of both radiohead & rav kahane for whom i could dedicate the beatles' "for you blue"" Are you a supporter of Meir Kahane? Kahanist groups are officially designated as terrorist groups by the American government. Also: "Jewess"? Questionable choice of words, at best. - Sean McBride

JIDF -- your thoughts, like those of Igor and Noah David Simon, are a great confused jumble -- and that is consistent with messianic psychology and the messianic mindset, which is much more focused on concocting elaborate rationalizations than in conducting honest intellectual investigations. With regard to the point of view of nations all around the world towards Israeli settlements: I... more... - Sean McBride

You bore me with your "messianic" allegations and your tone is condescending. Moving along.. - JIDF

JIDF -- you want to end the discussion already? I thought we were just beginning. What elements of Meir Kahane's thinking have inspired your enthusiasm? Kahane helped trigger the Baruch Goldstein massacre and Yigal Amir's assassination of Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin. The Israeli government itself considers Kahanism and Kahanists to be verboten -- beyond the pale -- as does the American government. - Sean McBride

Kahane noticed Jews were being attacked in the streets of NYC and created the JDL to do something about it. I notice that Jews (and Israel) are being attacked online, and I did something about it. - JIDF

@sean it's amazing how a debate can suddenly implode and have the participents retract from conversation the moment a person no longer has anything to hide behind. Personally, I don't get how attacks by opposing forces are seen as unwarrented hate while state sponsored subjigation, abuse and theft of said population is perfectly fine. Is there not a critical thought at play asking a... more... - alphaxion

If you view Hamas/Fatah as "freedom fighters" your moral compass is off. - JIDF

This is, without a doubt, bullshit. First of all, in terms of your comparison to Apartheid, I'd direct you to here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource... | Second, this sort of thing is based on a disconnect for the actual players involved. If you ever spent time in any Jewish community in America, there is huge support for Israel within them. Not everyone may agree with all the actions of Israel, but the support for Israel's existence within the US is huge. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

Oh, and I do support full equality for all ethnic and religious groups in Israel, both in law and in fact, providing they can pledge an oath of allegiance to the State of Israel. If they do anything to undermine the security of Israel, or if show any support for its destruction whatsoever, all bets are off. - JIDF

If you have ever been to Israel, you'd see that the people there, whatever you may think of their politics, ideals, religion, whatever, are perhaps the most determined people on the planet. The Israelis have put their lives on the line /every day/ to make a place for themselves in Israel. They haven't stopped before now and they won't stop in the future. Even if you don't like Israel, if you went there, and saw for yourself, you'd realize that no one there will simply give up. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

I took Sean up on his advice to use this great thing called "Google" (who knew?) and it's very interesting to see where this "news" (ie. propaganda) comes from and who is pushing it: http://www.google.com/search... - JIDF

@jidf did you not read what I said, let me quote it "Just remember, because of the actions of the IDF, the likes of Hamas are seen as freedom fighters to those who can no longer see that BOTH the israeli state AND the palestinian forces are fundamental cocks that don't care how many people suffer in their ceaseless bickering." I did not say this was my view, as you can pretty much get... more... - alphaxion

@alphaxion - you blame the IDF for Islamic terrorism. What is wrong with you? - JIDF

@aram support for its existence and reaction to its policies and actions are two different things. You can still support the right for israel to exist whilst criticising the actions of its government. The kinda comment you made sounds like the drivel you get from those who think to speak out against your government is to wish for it to be destroyed. No, many of us just want them to stop murdering and stealing land and resources from the palestinians. - alphaxion

JIDF -- questions about the viability of Israel have been prominently raised by two Israeli political leaders, Ehud Olmert and Tzipi Livni, and recently by a major American Jewish author, Rich Cohen. The whole world is wondering how any nation which resembles apartheid white South Africa can survive in the midst of overwhelming global opposition to its core beliefs and policies. - Sean McBride

@alphaxion that was a complete misread of what I said. I didn't say that I want to kill people or quash other opinions. I just said that, as a whole, on average, Israelis are a very determined people and they are not, as a whole, going to leave. The fact that you misread totalitarianism into the word determination scares the shit out of me. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

@jidf I blame BOTH for the endless cycle of hate and suffering. IDF bulldozes a settlement. Palestinians are killed and many are twisted by grief and suffering. Palestinians lash out and kill a number of Israelis. Those same Israelis are then twisted by their grief, IDF lashes back. Ad nausium. And by the way, I know people that live in Israel. The stories I hear from them (and this... more... - alphaxion

Fair warning to JIDF and NDS: if you want to post here, stay on substantive points and be civil. - Sean McBride

@aram.. sorry, I didn't notice the bit at the end that said "Not everyone may agree with all the actions of Israel, but the support for Israel's existence within the US is huge." which is also the point I said in my comment to you. Sorry if what I said there came off wrong. - alphaxion

@alphaxion It happens, thanks. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

JIDF -- are you aware that the JDL and all Kahanist groups are officially designated as terrorist groups by the American government? Are you familiar with the histories of Irv Rubin and Earl Krugel? And even the Israeli government classified Kahane as a racist. When you say you admire Meir Kahane, and create a group which is clearly modeled on the JDL, you are placing yourself at a particular location on the political spectrum. - Sean McBride

JIDF -- do you endorse vigilantism, malicious hacking, harassment, bombings, terrorism, etc.? Why do you think it is that the American government has zero tolerance for Kahanist groups and methods? Why would any American in his or right mind link her or her political activities to Meir Kahane, given the associations to officially designated terrorist groups? - Sean McBride

may I also point out that I would like the Palestinian forces to stop murdering, beating and abducting Israelis. But I'm not nieve to think that it will happen under duress. Both sides need to stop attacking each other - the empty ceasefires offered up by the Israeli government are simply not ceasefires. If they really want peace they'll go for a real ceasefire and do a proper deal such... more... - alphaxion

Still haven't seen an answer to this question: are Jewish settlements for Jews only or for members of all ethnic and religious groups? Nor have we seen acknowledgment from JDIF and NDS that every government in the world strongly opposes Jewish settlements in the occupied terrorities. - Sean McBride

@Sean While I don't support the JDL and its violent actions, the organization does extend beyond killing people. Remember, at one point the US gov't said much the same things about the Black Panthers. Beyond that, while I don't support violent actions, when a group faces people who call for its extermination and have to fear lynchings from groups like the American Nazis, the formation... more... - Aram Zucker-Scharff

I see many parallels between this and the troubles in Northern Ireland - two groups of people with a history of violence against each other. Even if the UK had gone against the wishes of the Northern Irish people and given the land back, there would still be fighting. Which is why the whole situation makes me feel sorry for the innocents trapped inbetween, just trying to live their lives. - alphaxion

Aram -- how much understanding did the American government offer to Irv Rubin and Earl Krugel? And how sensitive is the matter of Mideast terrorism currently when the American president is being besieged with terrorist threats on a daily basis, and considering that Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a Kahanist? - Sean McBride

@Sean, I didn't say I approved, I said I can understand how such a group can come about. You can't consider things in a vacuum. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

On the matter of Kahanism, anything but the strongest possible condemnation is entirely unacceptable. There is a clear track record here, and a climate of current threats. - Sean McBride

alphaxion -- two major differences between the Irish and Israeli situations: 1. the Irish situation is not likely to cause a global financial meltdown or worse (like the use of WMDs). 2. One rarely sees Irish Americans introducing Irish nationalism into mainstream American politics in a contentious way. Irish Americans on the whole keep a low profile on foreign ethnic nationalist issues -- there is no Irish AIPAC. - Sean McBride

I wasn't talking about Kahanism, just the formation of the JDL and the reasoning behind it. (By the way The National Consortium for the Study of Terror and Responses to Terrorism says "the JDL does not currently engage in terrorist actions.") Once again, I'm just saying that there is a reason behind its formation. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

Aram -- all terrorist groups are motivated by a rationale, right? The rationale they've constructed for themselves doesn't excuse them. - Sean McBride

All ethnic and religious terrorist groups are motivated by the same rationale -- the violent and criminal pursuit of their self-interest and often crackpot messianic fantasies. - Sean McBride

I am off to the beach to enjoy a spectacular summer afternoon, and will reenable comments when I return. - Sean McBride

While enjoying the afternoon at one of the most beautiful beaches in America in perfect weather, I was struck by the pure joy of witnessing a multitude of ethnic and religious groups mingling and sharing the same blissful space in peace and happiness, without a hint of conflict, and it struck me that this was a resonant image of the ideals of modern secular democracies. One finds the... more... - Sean McBride

Looking at an article published in an Iranian media outlet in no way constitutes support for the media outlet or for Iran -- on the contrary, I have been a harsh critic of Iran and Iranian theocracy. If you consult my Mideast News group https://friendfeed.com/mideast..., you will notice that most of my sources are Israeli and Jewish, including many right-wing Israeli and Jewish... more... - Sean McBride

Doing some browsing on the issue of apartheid, and this stuck me as a piece of high-quality and nuanced analysis: article(Leila Farsakh; Israel: an apartheid state?; Le Monde diplomatique; November 2003; http://mondediplo.com/2003...). Quote: "Despite their initial differences, apartheid South Africa and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have become similar since 1993. Will... more... - Sean McBride

NDS -- rewrite your last post without all the angry and overheated invective, add clean paragraph breaks, post it to your blog with a pointer here, and I'll read it carefully and respond. As a rule my mind automatically filters out writing full of fuming and self-righteous aggression. You should have noticed by now that all the even-tempered comments here stand undeleted, regardless of their point of view. - Sean McBride

you never elaborate your issues. analysis requires specifics. you aren't even specific about your accusation of "fuming and self-righteous aggression" - Noah David Simon

Noah -- if you review this thread, you will see that I have discussed dozens of specifics, most of which you flew right by without response. The more emotional the topic (and this is perhaps the most emotional topic in the world), the greater the need to lower the emotional volume to near zero to have a useful discussion. See David Cooper's comments for examples of how to make clear,... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, according to the CIA's 18th and 19th century predessors, theoretically Israel shouldn't exist at all. Just goes to show an intelligence agency assessment can be wrong. - George Hall (Australia)

CIA report http://friendfeed.com/igorthe... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

George Hall -- what are your thoughts on the future of ethnic nationalist and ethno-religious nationalist states in general? I would no more bet on them than I would bet on Communist states, the newspaper industry or cars manufactured by General Motors. (Are you an Australian, by the way?) What I *would* bet on are catastrophic developments in the Mideast, a region which seems to be firmly under the control of Abrahamic apocalyptic memes among all parties concerned. - Sean McBride

Browsing around, I just noticed that Israpundit, a right-wing pro-Israel site, posted the CIA report story on March 15, 2009 http://www.israpundit.com/2008.... It was widely reposted all over the Internet. (Presumably, Israpundit is not an Iranian propaganda outlet. :)) Many people, and some Israelis in particular, are curious to know what the report on the report is all about and... more... - Sean McBride

I just browsed the latest comments here -- apparently all from JIDF members (Igor's "Mossad" and Kahanist associates), and realized that any opportunity for a rational discussion and debate in this thread has evaporated. I asked George Hall a direct question about the future of ethnic and ethno-religious nationalism, and was treated to a biblical disquistion from a true believer -- not... more... - Sean McBride

Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

I am ignoring Sean McBride's Antisemitic agenda driven threads on Israel. I advise you to do the same! Do not Feed the Troll. He is just looking for attention and polemic debate!

July 19 - Comment - Like - Share

The Black Book, Noah David Simon and Akiva Moskovitz liked this

Igor -- why don't you set up a Friendfeed group into which to feed the news sources on Mideast politics that you think we should follow? I promise I'll take a look. I am doing my best to try to understand the situation, with American interests foremost on my agenda. - Sean McBride

65 more comments

Sean, you seem a drop more open here. In fact, I like this Sean! :) It's just about being open to really listen and see where the others are coming from...get into their shoes. - Myrna

You will attract more..you know honey vs vinegar... - Myrna

Myrna -- truthfully, I will always go the extra mile and beyond in trying to understand *fully* the points of view of those who disagree with me on complex issues like Mideast politics. And I never assume that I possess the final truth or the last word on these issues. I am always willing to change my mind in light of new information, facts and arguments. Our common humanity is bigger... more... - Sean McBride

Sometimes it seems when you speak and are 'on a roll' that you can't extract yourself from your one way focus-thinking. I've been in that situation with myself where it feels like I'm fighting for more than the idea or thought, something inside takes over and I am a prisoner of my ego. Listening is shut off in that moment. If someone snaps their finger in front of me, it releases.(oh was that me talking?) No not you, your ego. - Myrna

says the man with Troll in his name lol ;o) - Rob Sellen :o)

it is news that Myrna likes Nazi McBride? don't give the jerk any credit Igor. this is what the block is for. you show weakness when you act like you can't use it. look how they exploit you - Noah David Simon

Myrna -- I will often relentlessly push a line of thought to the limit just to see how it unfolds, in interaction with the counterarguments that it provokes. My ego isn't attached to the process, and there is no trolling involved -- it's more like playing chess games to test the strengths and weaknesses of various lines of development; part of the truth-seeking process. Strong ideas and... more... - Sean McBride

I'm more of a people person, feelings(as you noted). My intuition leads me and I have a 'godly respect' for it. What a statement! Like I said, I follow something much bigger than I can know with my 5 senses. And it always is streaming live right to me. :)) I should find a good photo for that. - Myrna

Where's Rumi when I need him? - Myrna

"Why should I seek? I am the same as / He. His essence speaks through me. / I have been looking for myself!" -- Rumi - Sean McBride

Perfect!! <3 - Myrna

Sean, look what I posted yesterday. Seems appropo(isn't that a word?) http://ff.im/5pKKZ - Myrna

yup... Myrna and McBride play you Igor. she sees she can't win by blocking forever. this is the game they play with people's principles. IgorTheTroll is weak because he claims he won't block. he's given them something to exploit and they will. this is what Palestine has done to Israel for decades and Igor is too old fashioned to realize that rules need discretion. you showed weakness... more... - Noah David Simon

I hear you 100%, Myrna. :) The photo is especially apropos because I have been spending much of my time on the beach lately. - Sean McBride

Sean, I love love love that photo. Look at the colors and I matched the quote with such spirit moving in the photo...and the 3 kids. - Myrna

Igor... you do realize that Sean McBride blocks? all that libertarian crap he spews is just bias. wake up. your enemies do not share your values - Noah David Simon

Sean McBride, if you want an open discussion, why did you block Noah David Simon, who is a Jewish activist? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor -- you've got this backwards: I tried to engage NDS in discussion, and he blocked me several times. - Sean McBride

I do not have anything backwards, you are blocking him now! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Well Sean, you said you want to be with the Jews. Well here we are. The ball is in your court! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Myma, give Sean some bagels. You want to get to know the Jews, eat our food! LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Hi! - Myrna

ok! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

ok what? - Myrna

where are the bagels? I am hungry. LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

no bagels for the past 6 yrs and they're the last thing you should be eating - Myrna

I should not eat Bagels? Why? I am a Jew. I LOVE Bagels. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Look what someone on twitter sent to me in reply to one of my rumi or hafiz quotes about looking inside for love rather than outside...I guess she is one of the non-listeners sarahjlab @myrnaslist, if you want to find love, I recommend Lavalife (http://bit.ly/1dkvYF), where I met my wife. Free trial included. - Myrna

You're showing 'that side', you know? - Myrna

What side is that? My Jew side? I am who I am! I have good and bad like everyone else. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

I didn't say that...but the side that needs working on - Myrna

Yo Vey, we all need working on! LOL I do need to lose some weight! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Eating bagels(nutritionally) is like eating wallpaper. Sorry to come down so strong on bagels but its true. - Myrna

Well Jews been eating bagels for centuries. What Jewish food you prefer to eat? Gefilte fish, Matza, Humus, Falafel? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

I think we can all use a little Jewish wallpaper from time to time. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva +1 Good for our Jewish Souls! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

LOL Akiva! - Myrna

NDS unblocked. And I happen to be a long-time fan of bagels and rugelach. - Sean McBride

I hope you not buying your bagels in a supermarket? Go to a local bagel shop. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

LOL Sean..I'm in such a laughing mood. Did you know I had 3 bagel stores, gourmet at that! Obama used to come for coffee(no bagels) and Joe Biden sent me a letter thanking me for delicious Brooklyn bagels..now I'm 'healthy' and no more wall paper for me. - Myrna

Igor, where do you think supermarkets get bagels from? Some are good, some in bagel shops are not, depends how much preservatives are used. - Myrna

Some sell from frozen, then baked...all levels of good to excellent taste. - Myrna

Myrna -- that's an amazing bit of biographical info -- I would have loved to sample your bagels. :) - Sean McBride

Be nice to Joe Biden LOL, and ask him. I still have his letter(not email), real one LOOOL - Myrna

I think Sean wants to eat handmade Jewish Bagels made by Myma! LOL - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

You know my bagels were 'hand rolled' by the real pros(LOL) from Thailand. And NO preservatives to keep them soft for a few days. Even then I didn't like fake food. - Myrna

Sean, you want to learn about Judaism, go to a Jewish bagel store! Maybe Myma will open one soon and invite you! ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Hey you 2, go read and comment http://ff.im/5rfCe - Myrna

Hey, and for the record, I have nothing against Sean. I think he's a little nuts, sure, but that's not why I have him blocked. I have him blocked because he doesn't listen and he's relentless in his commenting. I'm not an activist; I'm here to enjoy myself. And Sean's constant barrage of questions, combined with the fact that he ignores any part of the answers I gave him that doesn't... more... - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva, well too bad Sean is blocked. He could actually gain a lot from your feedback. Chaval..I meant to write a word but no english letters for first sound. - Myrna

Myrna, oh, don't worry about that. He either has alternate accounts, logs out so he can read my posts, or is subscribed to my feed's RSS. He keeps (or at least kept) an eye on me for some reason. My block isn't so much to stop him from reading what I post but to stop him from pestering me. - Akiva Moskovitz

Yes, I don't like people who make negative comments. I found it more on fb than FF and I blocked a few. Why should my page be energized with negativity. I'm thin skinned so am more affected. I totally understand your point and it seems your boundaries are well set for your well being. - Myrna

Akiva, I told Sean, if he bothers any of the Jews on FriendFeed, I will forward it to Mossad for investigation. So if you want, you can unblock him! ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Akiva, for your protection https://www.mossad.gov.il/... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor you would shmear cream cheese for a guy with a gun to your head - Noah David Simon

Yes, I would. I will even Suck His Dick, does not mean I will not kill him! ;-) I do what I need to do to survive, I hope you do the same. http://friendfeed.com/igorthe... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Wow, nice to see your openness to a different point of view Sean. Looking forward to seeing where that leads. Since I think I'm the only one here who actually lives in Israel, feel free to ask me questions about what life is really like here, as opposed to what you see in the press. - Miriam

This is a pretty funny thread to read for those of us who've blocked most of the people in question. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

Miriam, which part of Israel do you prefer. I use to live in Ramatgan when I was a kid. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Igor, he really does bring out the worst in you! - Myrna

Antisemitism bring out the best in me! It makes me strong. It makes me stand up for my Jewish people and my Israel. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Noah, never close your doors, always keep them open, then you know who is coming in and who is going out! Once you block, build fences, firewalls, you are in the dark! When you are in the dark, you are blind! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

http://simonstudiotheatre.blogspot.com/2009... I don't close the doors. I keep my options open. that includes all forms of surveillance and security. it isn't me that is closed minded... but rather you. it is all how you look at it. that has always been your problem Mr Troll. you think there are rules. even your concept of religion is nothing but rules. not me. I make the rules - Noah David Simon

@SeanMcBride http://networkedblogs.com/p859168... @IgorTheTroll2 is a #Mossad agent - Noah David Simon

Come join Mossad organization on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/group... - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

@IgorTheTroll2 is a #Mossad operative. Watch out @Hamas - Noah David Simon

bcultral

Breaking the Silence: Testimonies of Israeli Soldiers - http://www.mathaba.net/news...

July 24 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Lars Clausen, chaz2b, Anıl and 6 other people liked this

""Breaking the Silence is an organization of veteran Israeli soldiers that collects anonymous testimonies of soldiers who served in the Occupied Territories during the Second Intifada." They recount experiences that deeply affected them, including abusing Palestinians, looting, destroying property, and other practices "excused as military necessities, or explained as extreme and unique cases." They believe otherwise in describing "the depth of corruption which is spreading in the Israeli military" to which Israeli society and most Western observers turn a blind eye. "Breaking the Silence" was established to force an uncomfortable reality into the open to "demand accountability regarding Israel's military actions in the Occupied Territories perpetrated by us in our name."" - bcultral from Bookmarklet

30 more comments

I don't really like to take religious or political sides but I do take the side of compassion in every situation. I am a believer in the rule of reciprocity or golden rule as most people know it. And I do love Israel!!! - Myrna

I love Israel also....NOT ZIONISM... - bcultral

According to some, one cannot love Israel without being a Zionist. They can't comprehend it otherwise. - Akiva Moskovitz

The word zionism is mystifying to me. In 'my world' its just a label that's thrown around when its useful to the user. Same as racism and anti-semitism. I understand what the latter 2 mean but I prefer to go deeper on all issues...the 'fear' issue and what's behind these labels. - Myrna

Usually, the only people I see throwing around the word Zionism are people who actively hate Israel and want it destroyed and replaced with a Palestinian paradise. - Akiva Moskovitz

It's a waste(for me) to have long discussions on these labels without the main subject of compassion, fear and ego. - Myrna

Yes Akiva, that's what I'm referring to. - Myrna

It's the 'basic nature' of people that I'm interested in and to figure out how we can insert more love and compassion into the mix...when its difficult to do so. Doesn't really count when you're nice to someone who its easy to be nice to. - Myrna

This is a very important subject for Jews. Differentiating the Cultural/Religious/Ethnic identities from Political...This is a very important issue in identity formation. - bcultral

I agree. I'm Jewish and I freely admit my bias toward other Jews and Israel but not at the sacrifice of non-Jews. - Akiva Moskovitz

When you say non-Jews do you embrace the writings that identify non-Jews as Goyim? And the subsequent writings and teachings concerning the treatment/views toward the Goy? - bcultral

I very much want to understand this taught and admonished perspective and perception of those who are not like Jews. (which is the rest of the World populations and cultures and religions) - bcultral

You're referring to some of the language in the Talmud where some Rabbis claim that it's perfectly fine to lie to non-Jews, etc? The Torah gives permission to stone disobedient children at the city gates. Just because something is permitted doesn't mean it's acceptable. One goal of Judaism is to differentiate between what is permitted and what is morally acceptable. Only fundamentalists... more... - Akiva Moskovitz

Furthermore, not everything in Talmud is Law. Most of it is argument and much of it is rejected. To make matters more confusing, many topics are never fully resolved. This teaches that although we no longer add to the Talmud's texts, the Talmud is a living document and we should adjust it to the times and not the other way around. - Akiva Moskovitz

Yes I was referring to what is taught in the Talmud. vs What is taught in the Torah. This is what is very confusing for me. (assuming "The Law" emanates from the Torah) - bcultral

"Goyim" is a Hebrew word that simply means "nations." In the Torah, G-d's own chosen people are referred to as "goy." In the case of Israel, the land belongs to the Jewish people and if anybody else wants to live there they will have to respect the Jewish right to have a nation of their own. - David C. Cooper

The best way to look at Talmud is like it's a print-out of debates from a bulletin board. There's a lot of arguments, digressions, stories, jokes, etc. It is by all means not fully definitive or complete. - Akiva Moskovitz

Well I identify Jews as being one of 12 Tribes of "Israel" and concerning anybody else who wants to live in Israel, I am reminded of the African American group who first went to Liberia and then sought refuge in the promised land, only to be settled on top of the denied "Nuclear" site at Dimona... - bcultral

All of the tribes and their descendants are Jewish. - Akiva Moskovitz

I beg to differ: "All of the tribes and their descendants are Jewish" and concerning descendants I must digress. Khazaria is a empire which converted to Judaism. (Not Semitic) yet what percentage of modern Jews are descendants of Ashkanazi Jews? There is a DNA argument about this... - bcultral

Please enlighten me. - bcultral

I'm talking about Torah here and the Tribes of Israel who wandered about the desert for forty years. Conversions are a different matter. - Akiva Moskovitz

You just said it. "Tribes of Israel" not Tribe=Jews only.... - bcultral

They're all Hebrews. - Akiva Moskovitz

I agree!!!!!!! - bcultral

But people who are not descended from the twelve tribes are not Jewish unless they convert. Either you're Jewish or you're not. I am, obviously, putting aside the issue of race here. - Akiva Moskovitz

My point is: Wrong is wrong and Truth is Truth. Humanity calls for a righteous understanding of this issue. - bcultral

Too bad people can't agree on this Truth. - Akiva Moskovitz

Peace be unto you.... - bcultral

An op-ed in a Kuwaiti paper dismissed the claims made in the Breaking the Silence Report! Here's an English translation of the article, with a link to the original Arabic: http://docs.google.com/View... - Miriam

Thanks for this Miriam..like to hear all sides. - Myrna

Myrna to Myrna's feed, The Iranian Green Wave, Iran Election Watch, Iranian Embassy in Friendfeed

Fwd: I married Iranian girls before their execution | Iran news | Jerusalem Post - http://www.jpost.com/servlet... (via http://friendfeed.com/noahdav...) What is this? How archaic and barbaric! Thoughts or feelings anyone?

Fwd: I married Iranian girls before their execution | Iran news | Jerusalem Post - http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246443842931&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull (via http://ff.im/5shRb) What is this? How archaic and barbaric! Thoughts or feelings anyone?

July 20 - Comment - Like - Share

میر امید موسوی, mahyar, SokooteDel and 20 other people liked this

Yes, they do that, so they can execute them. It is a very jarring - RAPatton

41 more comments

RAP, I know 'everyone' knows what they do but this should go viral to remind our gov't who they are dealing with. I know they know but it should be fresh in everyone's mind and not thrown on the floor like a pair of socks when its inconvenient. - Myrna

Shocked! - Helen Sventitsky

Horrible. This is the Radical Islam who is Our Enemy! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

There was some evidence of this during the years following the revolution but not since. I recommend you don't rely on the Jerusalem Post for your Iran news. - نیکی

Who should one rely on then? - Myrna

Well, Iranian governement has done any shit one might assume and I have personally witnessed many of those. This has certainly happened in the past. Sexual abuse and rape has been also frequently reported from those who spent in jail just aftermath of the revolution during 70s. I have not heard this by word of mouth to be honest. But I would not be shocked if somebody tell me about such horrible experience. - Pari

there is an clerical rule which - I am not sure if its genuine or not - says the virgins are not to be executed and they should be de-flowered first. This has done many times and this is the case again. which makes this story reliable. - Mycaptain

Parinaz, I believe the Jerusalem Post. Even Israel's opponents think it's a reliable source. And anyway, we all know what goes on there. After being imprisoned, people tell about the horrific conditions and treatment. - Myrna

I am not that much familiar with the Jerusalem Post. I'd rather not comment on that. As I have explicitly said, this could have happened in Iran. We are witnessing such brutality from Iranian government these days that we can safely believe everything else. - Pari

I guess if the Hizballah terror organization believes in Israeli media, and many other institutes already stated it is reliable, then we can definitely count on it. We all know what happens in dark regimes, and judging by latest Iranian government handling, we can have all the reasons to believe this story has strong foundations. - Nir Ben Yona

mycaptain and Nir says its a go...Parinaz as well - Myrna

@Niki I hope you did not leave the Embassy over this. Take care. - Joe

Joe, who's Niki8? - Myrna

I don't know what to say. I mean, what do you say? - anna sauce

@Myrna she is the lady that objected over the use of the JP as an Iranian news source. She left the Embassy after this exchange today. I have no idea if it was because of it or not. - Joe

@Myrna, How does one start a group? - Joe

Go to groups on the right side and click. It gives you an option to start a group. - Myrna

Joe, could you please elaborate on the Iranian lady? Is she on twitter? I'm confused. - Myrna

Now you are confusing me. - Joe

نیکی This is her. - Joe

5 comments down from the top. - Joe

and no she is not on twitter. - Joe

She bailed right after this, I noticed the group dropped a member and it was her. I remembered seeing this exchange earlier. - Joe

Joe, Ohhhh! Why did you mention embassy? - Myrna

Because this post and her presence in it happened there and then she dropped that group. - Joe

She was not anywhere else where this was posted. - Joe

Oh got it. The Iranian embassy group here on FF. Thought you were referring to a real embassy. - Myrna

Why don't you DM her. She posted something 2 hrs ago on her page. - Myrna

I can't, she does not subscribe to me and lets just say she is kind of "cool" towards me.... She is not the biggest fan of Americans. But she is very intelligent and I think she has a good heart. I think she is perhaps sensitive to certain issues. - Joe

@Myrna Oh and sorry about getting DM happy w/ the pics last nite (a bit too much wine.....) - Joe

LOL, never looked. It was over stimulation at the onset. Life is beautiful! Or is it 'light' is beautiful. - Myrna

Joe, Iran is not the first nor the last place that these uglies happen. Rwanda, Darfur, child prostitution all over the globe. We need to start at home.(our own personal home, ourselves) - Myrna

Most things ultimately come down to personal responsibility. - Joe

When you hear things like this, it makes you wonder how could these people see such acts and still follow the mullahs doctrines. The Iranian nation as a "whole" must wake up from this deadly sleep. The same people who might be condemning this act, may go on that same day and follow certain religious directives, knowing well it probably came from mullahs and that it has nothing to do... more... - Iraj

This reminds me of the Christian Inquisition, where they would burn "offenders" rather than execute them in more bloody ways so as not to transgress the biblical verse "Thou shalt not spill blood" or something like that. It's amazing how religions manage to find loopholes (and horrific ones at that) for one of the most serious tenets of any religious doctrine. I'm thinking that they're missing the point... - Miriam

Miriam, you are absolutely right. This is to induce fear! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

All I can say, Muslim religion is being hijacked by extremists. Does this help the Muslim people or hurt them? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Iraj where are you? thanks for your thoughts! - Myrna

Miriam, missing the big point of that law of reciprocity or golden rule of not doing unto others what you wouldn't want done to you, one of the oldest rules/laws of universal spirituality. - Myrna

Muslim religion has been hijacked, yes Igor. - Myrna

A religion grows and flourishes like our minds and our souls. We and the universe is a work of art! Are we so rigid and made of stone that we do not see the "light"? Only when we open ourselves will we truly understand. This learning process never stops, in life and in death! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Spirituality Igor? - Myrna

Miriam

@AmiRojkes תודה רבה על הפירגון! אני ממש שמחה שנהנית. #isocilsm

July 18 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

shalom - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

9 more comments

Shalom. Sorry I'm not following you, but like Noah David Simon I may support much of what you say, but I can't support trolls. Good luck to all of us with anti-semites like Sean. Shavua tov. - Miriam from email

am I a Troll? Shavua Tov Baruch Hashem Erez Israel. Amein - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Well, that's your name and that's how you act sometimes. - Miriam from email

my name? that says much! I act like I need to act to defend my honor, so do all of us. I show respect to people who show me respect. I am sure you the same. We both come from the same tree! ;-) - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Lo baaya, ktzat ba ktaz at mavin oti. Tada Raba! - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Um, your name is The Troll. I don't know what trolling has to do with defending honor. I prefer to defend our people's honor under my own name since our cause is true and we have nothing to be ashamed of. And all of that through an approach of respect. If someone reduces the conversation to insults etc., I don't feel the need to be part of it anymore. - Miriam from email

nice to know the whole story before making a judgment, no? - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

True. Do you want to tell me the whole story? - Miriam from email

I rather go forwards than backwards, do not really want to dig up old wounds. - Igor The Troll יִצְחָק

Ok, I'll think about it. - Miriam from email

Myrna to Myrna's feed, Global Politics & News, World News & Politics

Israeli navy in Suez Canal prepares for potential attack on Iran - Times Online 'Potential means Potential' - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol...

July 15 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Alex Scrivener, آریـوبرزن, Tyson Key and 12 other people liked this

"The deployment into the Red Sea, confirmed by Israeli officials, was a clear signal that Israel was able to put its strike force within range of Iran at short notice. It came before long-range exercises by the Israeli air force in America later this month and the test of a missile defence shield at a US missile range in the Pacific Ocean. Israel has strengthened ties with Arab nations who also fear a nuclear-armed Iran. In particular, relations with Egypt have grown increasingly strong this year over the “shared mutual distrust of Iran”, according to one Israeli diplomat. Israeli naval vessels would likely pass through the Suez Canal for an Iranian strike. “This is preparation that should be taken seriously. Israel is investing time in preparing itself for the complexity of an attack on Iran. These manoeuvres are a message to Iran that Israel will follow up on its threats,” an Israeli defence official said." - Myrna from Bookmarklet

32 more comments

Nobody wants to touch this one. Glad Sean didn't see. - Myrna

:o - chaz2b

They're getting ready with their pals, the other Arab countries. - Myrna

Shorter version: "No change in the Middle East. Penis-waving still a popular pastime." - Mark H

i think the # of drills Israel has been running vs Iran, its borderline provocation on Israel's behalf, :( - chaz2b

It doesn't really matter if Sean saw this or not. You should read a few military experts on the topic. Israel has two options: a) using it's nuclear capabilities, b) somehow getting the US empire's helping hand. - LeaNder

Lea, when do you think Israel should act? Do you really think that they should be offensive with Iran. I guess Israel is in regular readiness process constantly and consistently. Is Iran stupid enough to think that their own country won't go up in smoke if they initiate a strike against Israel? - Myrna

Whether they act or not, they sure have the worlds attention. That's world class diplomacy. - Wallace

Sounds like clever desinformation campaign to me. However the coming attack –if it comes– will be shaped, it won't come from the most obvious direction, and may yet surprize us all (my personal favorite: drop billions upon billions of pregnant mutant killer rabbits in heat painted in Israeli colors on Iran, call it art happening). - ianf ⌘

Here we go............... - Kevin J Hatton

ian LOOOOL there was something on the news yesterday about Israel dropping some kind of 'dope' in bubblegum over the Palestinian areas. It was on Olbermann but I think it was a joke. - Myrna

Wallace, world class diplomacy..sounds so 'cool'. - Myrna

+1 mark - Zach Landes

Kevin, I have a feeling but don't know how to express this one in words..yet.(from your comment) - Myrna

And btw, Israel didn't start getting ready for anything. They're on call 24/7 since 1948 - Myrna

Don't think for one minute that they are not doing this without US coaxing, at least a little bit. The US needs them to attack Iran (if the true goal is to "liberate" Iran), because we are spread so thin as it is. Not like we didn't fund their military anyways. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

Lindsey, I think Wallace said it kind of 'tongue and cheek'. We all know what most of the world thinks of Israel no matter what they do, good or bad actions. - Myrna

Mike, you may be correct about US coaxing but I don't think Israel needs any coaxing. Like I said, they have been on 24/7 call since 1948. - Myrna

I don't think this is really a shocking or big piece of news. Iran is working towards a nuclear bomb, and that bomb has one target - Israel. Israel has two choices: 1. Sit back and hope the world takes care of this little potential-country-destroying issue - too bad history has shown Israel and the Jews can't depend on anyone else to protect them (Holocaust, Hizbullah in Lebanon... more... - Miriam

Miriam, there are 2 groups of people. Those who understand('get it') and those who don't. Period!!! Did I leave anyone out? - Myrna

We already know the mentality of the people at the top of the Iranian gov't!!! We see how they are dealing with the people who want to be listened to. - Myrna

@slayerboy: if I can be permitted an assessment of your analysis of the unresolved Middle-Eastern stalemate ("the US needs [Israel] to attack Iran…"), it is as sharp and bright as your pickup lines elsewhere <http://friendfeed.com/dcfemel...>. Go Linux! - ianf ⌘

Myrna, it wasn't a joke about the doped bubblegum. The Hamas press talesman Islam Shahwan has been quoted on camera as to the gum –allegedly supplied by Mossad and distributed via local dope dealers of all people!– raising the Palestinian libido [amend: http://enduringamerica.com/tag... ]. Sounds to me like another, pop-art version of, of the old "booby-trapped children toys dropped from Israeli airplanes" libel. - ianf ⌘

@LeaNder - Israel has plenty of other options at its disposal, only, for reasons only known to itself, has elected not to divulge them at present time to such heavyweight deep-thinkers as yourself, not to mention to lesser ones as the undersigned. - ianf ⌘

ian, so why the bubblegum thing, in whole not just the bubblegum? - Myrna

and why the children's toys booby trapped? It's so not politically correct..and if its true... - Myrna

Could you translate last two of your questions(?) into Coherent? - ianf ⌘

It's kind of early for you to ask for coherence. I'm not sure my eyes are fully open..as I begin my day listening to Peggy Noonan and Eugene Robinson while dental floss awaits my fingers. I may be naive but I don't get the purpose of the bubblegum and toys. Are they so stupid?? - Myrna

You mean you don't get the agitprop-value purpose of either? Apparently there are people for whom they are real. The same stuff about rigged toys has been disseminated in the West in the context of USA's bombing of North Vietnam and Kambodja. Why? Because the possibility was *there*, so it must have been deployed, and mere bombings were not enough for propaganda use. - ianf ⌘

I am really naive on this issue ian. I'm still scratching my head. - Myrna

The military history (of all conflicts) knows of plenty verified instances of boody-trapped objects left behind by retreating troops, usually to be detonated upon moving or after a given length of time (clockworks); none of them, far as I'm aware, shaped as children toys, never mind such dropped in by parachute. - ianf ⌘

Raising the Palestinian's libido!!!!?? Weird trick. - Myrna

Arm...where there's a will there's a way. - Myrna

Miriam

"Holocaust Revisionist" Could Take Over Va. town - http://digg.com/odd_stu...

July 14 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

""a film the British Government deemed too grisly for release after World War II - has received its public debut on British television." http://video.google.com/videopl... ... The dead in this movie are all...dummies? Dolls? The fact that whole Jewish communities were either decimated or almost decimated is because...they were abducted by aliens? The experiences related by Holocaust survivors are...hallucinations? My grandmothers uncle, wife and five kids who were shipped off to a camp never to be heard from again...decided to move to Timbuktu? Give me a break." - Miriam

Bill Romanos

Hagia Sophia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...

June 29 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Michael Habib, Robyn Hawk, nevakip and 33 other people liked this

"Hagia Sophia (Turkish: Ayasofya, from the Greek: Ἁγία Σοφία, "Holy Wisdom"; Latin: Sancta Sophia or Sancta Sapientia) is a former patriarchal basilica, later a mosque, now a museum in Istanbul, Turkey. Famous in particular for its massive dome, it is considered the epitome of Byzantine architecture and to have "changed the history of architecture."[1] It was the largest cathedral in the world for nearly a thousand years" - Bill Romanos from Bookmarklet

8 more comments

I want to go there so bad. - Admiral Anika

Turkey and Hungary are high on my hit lists. - Mitch

Standing on the floor and looking at how far away the ceiling was was just overwhelming for me. Hard to believe that it was built so long ago with engineering like that. - Dave Roth

So gorgeous. I love those really ornate churches/basilicas - so many church pictures in my photo albums from Europe it's not even funny. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

That's a place I would really like to visit. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Wow, that's something. - Derrick

I'm actually going to be in Istanbul in August, and now I know one place I must see. Any other suggestions for good sites there? - Miriam

Beautiful architecture. - Bill Romanos

@Miriam Also check out the Blue Mosque. - Dave Roth

Mona Nomura

Riyad sand storm - massive sandstorm hits Saudi Arabia : International News Bureau - http://www.intnewsbureau.com/riyad-s...

June 20 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Waldemar Schott, Mahdi Ebrahimi, Shey, Jamaican of FF and 110 other people liked this

Crazy. Video and more pictures here: http://thechive.com/2009... - Mona Nomura

19 more comments

Golly! - Kate Foy

unbelievable. OMG!! - karthick

no, please. - ::Kristen::

That looks unreal. - Tsega Dinka

ut oh, they inherited the curse and awakened the mummy, someone call Brendan Fraser! - Adam Turetzky

seen that in Texas a few times in my life, actually. not on the same scale, however, as it was usually "just" dust. - Joe Silence

Crazy. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Eerie. - Chris Lasher

I've got friends in Riyadh. Sandstorms are crazy there. Amazing how it's captured on photos. - Dee S.

Frightening! - Thierry R. Andriamirado

I've seen this in Phoenix too. Maybe not quite as big, but it sure felt like it when you're watching it come at you. A giant wall of dirt. - Fa La La La Lindsay

that is an incredible sight. Wow! - Anna Lynn M.

Grew up in Muscat, Oman. Have been in these massive sand storms a few times when my dad used to take me on his plant inspections in the dessert. [Edit] They are not as frightening as they look. - Kamath (नमः)

Kamath - it sure _looks_ horrifying, from the picture. Wow. - Rick Cogley

Looks painful! - Alison Robb Astair

I've been in Saudi sandstorms, but this is something else entirely... wow. - Michael W. May

crazy.. - yagami

We had a mini sandstorm while in Baghdad. It just looks strange. Not scary, just weird. - Michelle Martinez

Yikes. I might just never complain about an Israeli sharav again. - Miriam

creepy - Susan Beebe

Miriam

Israel declares revolution against gas guzzlers - http://digg.com/environ...

June 10 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"What in the world are you talking about? What are "conservative Jews"? Do you mean Jews with conservative points of view, or Jews who belong to the Conservative stream of the religion? In any case, all Jews recognize people not born Jewish who convert to Judaism as being Jews." - Miriam

Miriam

Using XAMPP for Local WordPress Theme Development - http://digg.com/program...

April 26 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"We prefer WAMP. It's so easy to install and use. Here's a tutorial on how to install it and get going: http://wordpressgarage.com/good-bl... ..." - Miriam

Miriam

Eminem's back...but does the world still need him? - http://digg.com/music...

March 23 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"Strangely, I think Eminem is brilliant. I'd be glad if he came back." - Miriam

Miriam

Gypsy parents sell their daughters at annual Bulgaria market - http://digg.com/world_n...

March 11 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"Hilarious. I can't stop laughing." - Miriam

Miriam

U.N. resolution seeks to criminalize criticism of Islam - http://digg.com/politic...

March 4 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"You can absolutely criticize Judaism. You can say Judaism is stupid, doesn't make sense, has weird laws, etc. What you cannot do is commit hate crimes. The UN is trying to make it illegal for people to say any of the above about Islam. That sounds like suppression of freedom of speech to me." - Miriam

Miriam

Mr. Smith Goes to Washington -- [full movie] - http://digg.com/movies...

February 22 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"OMG! I can't believe this whole movie is online. This made my day. Thanks!" - Miriam

Miriam

Biggest Solar Deal Ever Announced — We're Talking Gigawatts - http://digg.com/environ...

February 13 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"Here's a little tidbit that's going to make all the green lefties on digg shudder - guess where Brightsource, the company that makes the solar plan, is from? ISRAEL! Yes, the cause of all the world's evils is actually making alternative energy a reality! Boo! Bury this! It must be bad if Israel's behind it! Or wait, this is yet another example of Israel misusing American tax dollars! We don't want them! Boycott Israel! Etc. Etc. /sarcasm. majorly" - Miriam

Miriam

Cheating Wife sold on ebay - http://digg.com/comedy...

February 11 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"That's one way to get back at someone. Pretty funny." - Miriam

Miriam

Amnesty International: Hamas War Crimes too blatant to cover - http://digg.com/world_n...

February 11 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"So...war crimes don't get investigated. Only actions that may or may not be war crimes. Based on that convoluted logic, Israel is getting investigated all the time because it is not committing war crimes. Hamas is not getting investigated because it is committing war crimes. Nice." - Miriam

Miriam

Amnesty International: Hamas carrying out 'deadly campaign' - http://digg.com/world_n...

February 11 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"Subversive acts may be treason, but Hamas is running around torturing and even killing people they suspect may be "collaborators" without any chance of a fair trial (not that such a thing exists there, but still). Their victims don't have a chance to defend themselves, and with such a system of punishment in place, it's likely many non-collaborators are being victimized as well. And anyways, what is a subversive act that is considered treason? In civilized societies, that refers to spying etc. In Hamas society, citizens that dare to criticize the government are eligible for punishment. That doesn't sound like subversive activity to me - that sounds like free speech." - Miriam

Miriam

Amnesty International: Hamas carrying out 'deadly campaign' - http://digg.com/world_n...

February 11 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"Dzonatas, Israel's got its issues, but if a woman is raped, God forbid, she has a zillion women's support organizations to turn to for physical and emotional help; her family supports her rather than shunning her or blaming her; the courts don't punish her for her "crime"; and society is not such that she feels that it's better to become a suicide bomber than to live with her sin." - Miriam

Miriam › Comments