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Leo Laporte to Leo's feed, TWiT Conversations

Live now: This Week In Google 10 with Gina Trapani, Jeff Jarvis, Kevin Marks, and Marshall Kirkpatrick on Google Wave. http://live.twit.tv. Discuss here...

October 3 - Comment - Like - Share

Matt, Ken Sheppardson, George Brickner and 38 other people liked this

I think it's safe to say... NO ONE ON THIS PROGRAM HAS ANY INVITES LEFT! Don't bother asking :P - Johnny Worthington

432 more comments

PLLLLEEEEAAAAASSSSEEEE! ... lol j/k :D - Danny Minick

Hahaha, Johnny! - Haggis (Sean Loyless)

They're being throttled - Johnny Worthington

LOL - Roberto Bonini

Eventually I'll get mine. My early adopter twitch is twitching.. - Mike Lewis

Let's get going, really curious about your experiences with Wave! - Jan Cifra

Still waiting as well. - Roberto Bonini

I haven't heard a single positive thing about Wave yet. Still want to try it for myself, but it's interesting that there's so little positive buzz. - Jeff Harbert

I can't wait to use GW. Still waiting for my invite to show up in my inbox. - Danny Minick

woop woop woop - ralphsaunders

Leo: Get Scoble on... :) - Holger Eilhard

What's the wave for this show? - Jérôme Flipo

Scoble would be great!!!! - Roberto Bonini

I have been nominated for a wave invite... What the heck google, am i not good enough for you! - ralphsaunders

I'd love to participate in the show's wave! - Eric

FIOS would rock. - Jeff Harbert

How can I get on one o' dem monitors someday... do I gotta be famous enough than i already r? - Danny Minick

From what I have read (no invite yet) if I can run this on my own server for my 5 team members at work, THIS is the solution I have been looking for. - Johnny Worthington

Also, Scoble missed the point. It's not social media or a broadcast medium. 100,000 would never be manageble team in any situation. Wave has power in small numbers. This beta is a free-for-all. - Johnny Worthington

LOL @ Robert Scoble. - Danny Minick

The API is where Wave is going to see some action, I think. - Jeff Harbert

Johnny: "This beta is a free-for-all." Not so much at this moment :) - Holger Eilhard

Johnny: you need to read my latest blog post: http://scobleizer.com - Robert Scoble

I don't want to be on the show today. I haven't taken a shower yet. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

Robert!!!!!!!!!!! hehe - Roberto Bonini

C'mon Robert, it would be fun. Please? :D - Danny Minick

Someone's phone is ringing. - Jeff Harbert

Nah. I'm not answering the phone, it's downstairs. - Robert Scoble

Robert please make use of the bold tag when you blog so people can see the sections of the post. - ralphsaunders

I meant I heard a phone ringing in the background on TWiG. - Jeff Harbert

Robert... I did... you still miss the point. The power comes from when I can run my own Wave server inside a corporation. - Johnny Worthington

Heheh. - Robert Scoble

How do you get to the real time 'chat room' style view for the TWIG friend feed? No wonder this site hasn't taken off, the learning curve is unbelievable - Matt

Oh snap. - Danny Minick

Leo, you gotta read my latest post where I take on the email metaphor of Google Wave and why Google Wave isn't productive. - Robert Scoble

Wave is like an online whiteboard for web conferences. - Jeff Harbert

Jeff: if you could lock it down to just people at the conference that might be useful. - Robert Scoble

This, right here, what we are doing, is like Google Wave. LOL - Danny Minick

Danny: exactly! - Robert Scoble

Agreed, Robert. - Jeff Harbert

But in my 5 member team at work, this will replace email for is - Johnny Worthington

Only, Danny, this is better thought out and more mature (and faster, etc). - Robert Scoble

Matt: Click on the timestamp or here: http://friendfeed.com/twit-co... - Holger Eilhard

Google Wave is the new black. I mean FriendFeed. - Jeff Harbert

True - Roberto Bonini

Johnny: how will you lock out spam? Or others who find out about your account? - Robert Scoble

LOL Jeff. - Danny Minick

Jeff: LMAO. - James Williams

Just had a problem with Wave: I opened a window to ping Leo asking to join the TWig Wave, but I decided not to bother him. Unfortunately, as I saw on the live video, it already had -- he saw a flashing ping window before I even started typing! (I decided to type out a message at that point, seeing as it had already appeared on his screen.) - Eric Geller

Can you run your own Wave server? wave.google.com isn't the only place this will exist - Johnny Worthington

Jeff summed it up well - ralphsaunders

Yes you can johnny - Roberto Bonini

It's an email/wiki mashup. - invariant - farewell FF

By the way, how do I join the Twig wave? - Robert Scoble

And therefore can control the people in your instance? - Johnny Worthington

Johnny: the federation source is out there but it might not be complete. - James Williams

give it a smack down... no idea - ralphsaunders

what's your wave email robert? - Leo Laporte

Im not good enough for googles wave apparently - ralphsaunders

We're on the Wave for this show at https://wave.google.com/wave... - Jérôme Flipo

LOL, I'm still just trying to join Google Wave. Dang invite still isn't here yet. - Danny Minick

I'm pretty sure I'm scobleizer@googlewave.com - Robert Scoble

If I can run my own instance, and control l those who go into it. NO SPAM. - Johnny Worthington

I think you guys are missing the point. Wave is not a replacement for email it's a new solution to an old problem - how do I communicate efficiently with people around the world? - Jan Cifra

added roberrt - Leo Laporte

Jan: and there it is an unproductive one at the moment. - Robert Scoble

Leo! :D - Danny Minick

speaking of spam, is this a good place to shill for an invite? - Gabe

I agree but it's not final - Jan Cifra

See the first comment, Gabe. - Danny Minick

Gabe: Nope - Roberto Bonini

Gabe invites seem to take a week anyway T_T - ralphsaunders

;) thanks Danny - Gabe

Plus, I can create my own BBS style Wave instance. I could create my own server and add people who have similar interests - Johnny Worthington

Gabe: even if it were you won't get the invite soon anyway. - Robert Scoble

Eek! http://is.gd/3UYZQ - ralphsaunders

Anybody really got an account based on a recommendation? - Holger Eilhard

Yeah I'm on day 3 waiting for an invite. TheHenry sent me one 3 days ago. >.< - Danny Minick

This is a business app - Johnny Worthington

TWiG is quickly becoming one of the most respected podcasts on the net after a few episodes - Mark

This is an app for tight groups - Johnny Worthington

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki... - Gabe

Google must be doing something right to get their own segment on TWiT network. LOL - Danny Minick

Gina speaks so fast my brain can't keep up >< - ralphsaunders

Seems to me like we're thinking of Wave in terms of every other open social media app out there. Like here in FriendFeed, or Twitter, or even email. - Jeff Harbert

Doesn't wave cover the email paradigm well? Especially if you consider the federation/protocol part? - Jan Cifra

Big 3: Google, Microsoft, Apple, not maybe in that order. So deserves its TWIT show - Mark

Leo, can you talk about running your own Wave server. That would solve a lot of the issues with noise and unwanted people - Johnny Worthington

Where's Marshall? - Debi Jones

if yahoo gets big again there will be This Week In Search hehe - Mark

How do you permanently hide/delete a wave? - Robert Scoble

Skype permissions problem with Marshall - Roberto Bonini

Good topic and good panelists.. TWiG is a winner - Matt

Mark: haha - John Atkinson

stil waiting for my wave invite, wish i knew what was being talked about here - Tate DA FF MVP

What about a This Week in Bing. TWiB. Haha. - Danny Minick

Now I really understand why FriendFeed didn't add multi-level threading. - Robert Scoble

Mark, thats what the Gilmour Gang was - ralphsaunders

Danny, as Mark pointed out and Leo has stated... Apple and MS are both essentially platforms or ecosystems, as is Google... so it makes sense and just as in his other shows, the content isn't alwayslimited to google - Gabe

Unlike Twitter you have to have other people who are already engaged to use Wave, so it will start as a business / org app - Matt

the smartest people in the world are on the TWiT network ;) - Mark

Hisham... but if it's free? - Johnny Worthington

Interesting insights related to #2010web and where Wave plays in Enterprise 2.0 in this post http://bit.ly/1amVOO - Alberto Saavedra

A good use for Wave would be for the TWiT shows. You can pause the live stream and it will buffer from where you left off but the Friendfeed room moves on so you are behind the chat and have no idea what is being talked about. Could make a wave client for TWiT shows so you can "playback" what you missed in synch with the video stream. - Mark

Btw can you sort Waves based on contacts? The "Inbox" UI seems very confusing if you consider you could have hundreds of contacts - it could get messy. - Jan Cifra

Hisham: If you have ever seen a successful wiki implementation, at work for example, the knowledge capture is amazing. I can see Wave taking this to the next level - especially the real time component. - Marshall Huwe

lol "Wave'd" - Danny Minick

My boss - Johnny Worthington

Jan: Not sure about sorting but you can search with "from:username" like in Gmail I believe - James Williams

Remember how they used the word 'wave' in Firefly? I wonder if that's where the Wave team got the name. - Jeff Harbert

Gina, that would rock, seriously. - Jeff Harbert

Gina, that sounds like a Wave implementation of A Tiny Thread: - Gabe

Jeff: my guess is yes because the error messages in the sandbox are something kaylee says. Something about "shiny Cap'n" - James Williams

James: Neat, I didn't know that. - Jeff Harbert

Oh I am so prank phone calling Leo. - Danny Minick

Danny: pwned ;) - Holger Eilhard

Shame thats not his real number eh danny ;) - John Atkinson

I know guys. That's the joke. LMAO - Danny Minick

WOW... this is cool - Johnny Worthington

o.O - Kevin Nunez

Is he trying out the conference gadget ?(not watching currently) - James Williams

gTalk/Google Voice intergration... - Johnny Worthington

I can see that being very useful. One on one online coaching, multi-city conferences... - Jeff Harbert

That'll be good, when the rest of us can get gvoice accounts too :) - Simon Wicks

IT'S FREE - Johnny Worthington

I wonder how long it will take for the voice transcription in Google Voice to make it into wave - Gabe

It's the Ribbit Conference Gadget. - James Williams

I have Google Voice. So I hope I get Google Wave too as well. - Danny Minick

This sounds like all colleges would replace its whiteboards with this, what will it cost, if any?? - Rick

Now THAT gave us a taste of what will be cool about Google Wave. But they never should have pitched it as a "new email." - Robert Scoble

At university we have used wave to take notes at lectures, and by using it we can share thoughts of it and sound files from the lecture feks - Devlin

It would be more interesting if voice dialog transcribed into conference - who said what - notagolfer

Gabe, probably the same time it takes the transcription currently. - Jeff Harbert

Wave *MIGHT* be an excellent tool for education. Unfortunately, I don't have access to it. Hope that Google will give all their Google Apps for Edu accounts access to it right away. - Rom Feria

Anyone need an invite? I'll give out 3 of mine. Warning, it seems to take a while (days) for them to go out. - invariant - farewell FF

Robert, they were trying to put it in context of existing services. That was a mistake. - Jeff Harbert

YES - Simon Wicks

Yes - notagolfer

please me - Rick

It will replace email for my team. - Johnny Worthington

farewell FF, I'd love an invite! - Jeff Harbert

Kevin is the smartest guy on the GG and now on TWiG - Mark

Jeff, I meant before google integrates it into wave... unless it already is? - Gabe

"Remember how they used the word 'wave' in Firefly? I wonder if that's where the Wave team got the name." That would be pretty funny, Jeff Harbert. - Matt Cutts

Gabe, dunno if it's currently integrated or not. - Jeff Harbert

@Hisham: do you have patients? do you do research? do you have staff? do you have peers? Don't know your situation obviously, but I can see lots of opportunity for knowledge capture, realtime collaboration, etc. - Marshall Huwe

Ok, Simon Wicks, notagolfer, Rick and +1 for Jeff Harbert: I'll follow you, DM me an email address to use. - invariant - farewell FF

thank you! - notagolfer

farewell FF - sweet, thanks! - Jeff Harbert

Ribbit gadget it's really useful, imagine if TWiG can be segmented in episodes and each segment is a threaded wave, it will be easier for people that were not able to follow it in realtime, catch-up with the content/comments generated - Alberto Saavedra

hi @mattcutts, you should invite @jewelstaithe to Wave... - Kevin Marks

Thats an interesting Q's, how will Google integrate this into all its other Apps - Rick

is scoble the only one not excited about Wave ? - Mark

Here is why it will replace email. I send back and forth 6 emails about a subject to a person on my team. hen we have to bring someone else in on the conversation. They then have 12 emails to read before they catch up. - Johnny Worthington

Mark: Re: Kevin Marks...And he's a really cool, laid back, and approachable in person. - James Williams

Mark: no, I've gotten hundreds of replies from people who don't get it either. - Robert Scoble

why is "Leo Laporte Makes $1" a trending topic on twitter??????????????? - Mark

Thanks very much farewell FF :) - Simon Wicks

@ribbit could add transcription of the calls into the wave, but there is a lag to do it - Kevin Marks

Mark: see Mashable. Leo gave a talk at the Online News Association earlier today where he announced that his revenues are more than a million a year. - Robert Scoble

re: ribbit gadget transcription: And it doesn't like some British accents ;) - James Williams

Holy crap he is rich! - Mark

James: agreed. Kevin is a great guy. - Robert Scoble

He's rich!? - Danny Minick

Mark: out of that he pays seven people. But the Mashable article showed his costs are $350,000 a year. - Robert Scoble

And the hosts - Johnny Worthington

Holy crap he is moderatley well off! :D - Mark

@Kevin Marks: that's pretty cool, and will make it more useful for business - keep people from saying stupid stuff :) - notagolfer

I think Wave's usefulness is directly related to how many people you know that you need to collaborate with and how net saavy they are - Matt

I wonder how/if Wave is going to impact SXSWi next year. - Jeff Harbert

Here's the link to Leo's ONA speech: http://paidcontent.org/article... - Holger Eilhard

Wow over $1million profit in a year after paying his staff! - Mark

Jeff: Not much I think. It'll be just another place to check. But that could change if Android/iPhone gets a native client with a slick interface. - James Williams

Not profit, Mark. Leo's statement was $350 K in costs and $1.5 mil in revenue. - Debi Jones

Will wave.google.com be the only instance? - Johnny Worthington

Invites seem to be very slow at present - Quentin Stafford-Fraser

What will this cost for colleges to use for their white board system? - Rick

LEO!!!!!!! NOT FAIR. - Danny Minick

Not everyone will use wave.google.com in the future - Johnny Worthington

I am happy Leo is making loads of money because he spends tens of thousands a year on new equipment for the studio :D - Mark

I dont think they are immediate. If im not mistaken the invites are manual - Kashif Khan

Not sure if $350 is total costs. That was for the network. - Debi Jones

Johnny: I'm fairly certain that you can host your own wave - tytycoon

Danny: Life is not fair. :) - Kevin Nunez

Yup - a friend sent me one a couple of days ago and it hasn't arrived yet - Quentin Stafford-Fraser

Yer not fair, Nunez. :P - Danny Minick

I know. - Kevin Nunez

when is Google Wave coming invites Gmail users ? - Michael Holzinger

the more money Leo makes the more likely we will have a new studio for TWiT Live soon with 480p stream and downloadable videos and more camera angles and new shows - Mark

Quentin: same here. 3 nominations incoming, no sign from Google... - Holger Eilhard

Yeah, I'd say. - Danny Minick

Kevin Marks: hi there! I'd happy invite @jewelstaite but I'm out of invites, and I'm guessing she's busy with lots of other things. :) - Matt Cutts

Innovation needs promotion. Ashton and Oprah aren't here yet - Johnny Worthington

Follow @larsras and @twephanie on twitter for updates regarding invites and stuff for Wave - Kashif Khan

we care about wave but Tech Guy audience radio doesn't - Mark

Do you watch TWiT or listen to TWiT? - Debi Jones

listen - Kevin Nunez

That wasn't Matt, that was me! - Jeff Harbert

I watch live every day and use ODTV if I miss shows - Mark

And then you can control your users to avoid the flood - Johnny Worthington

@Mark, what's the ODTV url? - notagolfer

notagolfer: odtv.me - Holger Eilhard

http://odtv.me - Gabe

thank you! - notagolfer

Johnny: Let's figure out the user exp first before they make it mainstream. Wave doesn't fit their model where they choose to broadcast but not engage. - James Williams

James: Additionally it creates a hype... It's all like Gmail again :) - Holger Eilhard

Usually if I miss a show, I keep watching live.twit.tv, I like serendipity of it :) - notagolfer

How about live streaming in a Wave? That could revolutionize TWiT. - Jeff Harbert

but I bet within a year or two TWiT live has 480p streaming and downloads - Mark

But if I run my own server... Can't I control who joins? - Johnny Worthington

mark - sooner than that - Leo Laporte

Jeff: I would think so, I've seen group viewing in a wave (start/stop/ff/rewind of videos was synchronized and allowed video comments) - James Williams

RSSCloud too don't forget - Mark

What's the current resolution of TWIT? - tytycoon

@Leo: will it those videos be available on Roku only, or I can watch them on XBox as well? - notagolfer

Leo will there be one day an official goggle wave server for the TWiT community? - Mark

xbox, yahoo tvs, iphone, etc etc. - Leo Laporte

Smilar to how we have our own twitter at Army.twit.tv - Mark

BitGravity stream is 640x360... - Holger Eilhard

Leo, awesome, and thank you for doing that - notagolfer

soon as we can Mark - Leo Laporte

Thanks, Holger - tytycoon

Leo: are your streams working on Ustream's iPhone app? Someone was asking about that. - Robert Scoble

So I can have my own hosted BSS style Wave Server. Controlled, on topic and sharing - Johnny Worthington

yes robert - we're one of the recommended iphone ustream feeds - Leo Laporte

Robert, yes - Johnny Worthington

Robert: They are I've watched it on Ustream's Iphone client - tytycoon

Yup they work, but they buffer a lot. At least on my iphone - Roberto Bonini

works surprisingly well - even on 3g - Leo Laporte

Oh cool. Guess I can reinstall the ustream app then... - Holger Eilhard

it buffers only one or two times an hour for me on my home wifi-n - Mark

I can't imagine using it on 3g; I've been using Wifi - tytycoon

thanks for clearing some stuff up - love the 'signed' address idea! - Leonieke Aalders

tytycoon: probably not so good on AT&T's 3G ;-) - Holger Eilhard

twit.am buffers for me on 3g lol, 64K a second or something - Mark

Is there a UStream app for the Blackberry? - Jeff Harbert

Cool! I was using the iPhone app to watch the Twitter Conference. It worked pretty well, but some times dropped (on AT&T's 3G). - Robert Scoble

Jeff: yeah, buy an iPhone. :-) - Robert Scoble

I'm on Roger's in Canada. - tytycoon

Also, in a social media sense, there is now a space free from Facebook style ToS - Johnny Worthington

And with that I've gotta run, great show. - Robert Scoble

Robert: I had an iPhone. I need a real keyboard. - Jeff Harbert

It's not as bad dropped-calls-wise. But is very expensive - tytycoon

See ya Scoble! :) - Danny Minick

I'm amazed by Leo & Robert's ability to manage three conversations in realtime on Wave, Friendfeed, Twit.tv, etc. - Jérôme Flipo

Later Robert! - Jeff Harbert

Jerome: drugs! :-) - Robert Scoble

ADD helps doing that :) - notagolfer

More specifically: caffeine! - Robert Scoble

Robert: I don't need caffeine to feed my ADD ;-) - Holger Eilhard

and one for TWiT - screw Huffington post! - Mark

I need the stimulation to keep from falling asleep. ;-) - Leo Laporte

... in 1 place - Johnny Worthington

Leo and Robert have lots of big screen to look at - Kevin Marks

14 screens right now and one more coming. - Leo Laporte

will future wave users pick&choose what they want, and not be inundated by all that is on offer? - Leonieke Aalders

you have to come to the cottage Kevin. - Leo Laporte

Leo: And here I am thinking about getting a third 22" monitor. - Jeff Harbert

Hehe, I can barely handle the 4 monitors here. - Andrew Euell

22" how quaint - Mark

Leo: I love the irony of you calling it a cottage but have 14 screens. - James Williams

I would love to come to the cottage as well. But I'm in Kansas. Lame. - Danny Minick

I should plug my TV into the Mac while I'm doing this at home... - Kevin Marks

Gmail new feature http://mail.google.com/support... (not a fan) - Jérôme Flipo

Does having more monitors really improve your productivity? - tytycoon

Mark: It's the sweet spot for pricing. Quite a bit less $$$ than 24". - Jeff Harbert

Oh Leo was your father on radio in Providence? - Andrew Euell

I'm loving how Jeff Jarvis is thinking about the X PRIZE model for collaborative innovation. Here's his post on the subject he just discussed http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009... We're really trying to get that thought process out there. - Mark Krynsky

When im coding at work, multiple monitors are awesome !!! - Kashif Khan

tytycoon: It does for me. - Jeff Harbert

tytycoon yes i personally think that having 2 monitors does increase productivity - John Atkinson

Mark: I had dual 24s at my last job. My 22s at home feel almost the same. - Jeff Harbert

can you get full HD resolution on any monitors smaller than 30" ? - Mark

2560x1600 - Mark

Mark: My 24 Dell has 1920x1280... which is more than full HD :-) - Holger Eilhard

well I mean super full HD then - Mark

I have a 23" LCD in my living room that does 1080p. - Jeff Harbert

2560x1600 - Mark

22" monitor + magnifying glass - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

Wave is the back end - Johnny Worthington

Kevin is right. I'm excited about having my news curated by my social graph. Here's a service that is providing that info based on links created by who I follow on Twitter http://www.twittertim.es/krynsky - Mark Krynsky

New on TWiT - This Week in Wave! - Jeff Harbert

I like that. A DNS for knowledge. - Roberto Bonini

my 20" monitors are 1600x1080 - Danny Minick

one thing that Wave is really good for is setting up quickie impromptu polls during a taping. - James Williams

Welcome to the Social - Johnny Worthington

Jeff Jarvis Loves that Bit.ly stat - tytycoon

My first Wave widget will probably be called Marcel :-) http://tinyurl.com/yc7ym23 - Quentin Stafford-Fraser

1" monitor + microscope - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

you don't need microscope, they include spare set of eyes - notagolfer

What's the URL for Every, the company in Seattle, WA who looks for their stories through Twitter? - shelter watch

surely bit.ly shouldn't be in the referrer if they are 301ing correctly? @mattcutts? - Kevin Marks

Thanks Gina... awesome - Johnny Worthington

That's really cool; I didn't know it was free for individuals and small buisness users - tytycoon

Excellent tip about using Gmail to host a private domain mail account. Here's the link http://smarterware.org/3628... - Mark Krynsky

Bring Henry - shelter watch

WoW Economics 101 - Johnny Worthington

yeah that "Old Pakistan" comment didnt compute here either - Kashif Khan

I find that by the end of this show I always have a million links open from both the chat and the show. What do you folks use to organize these things? Read it later? http://www.ideashower.com/ideas... - tytycoon

Oh gosh, Dvorak was right about Bing, Yahoo and Google... :) - Holger Eilhard

Mmm, new metrics.. - Matt Cutts

Or something better? - tytycoon

I like the Brit's explanation the best .. Google Wave is lots of "little bits". LOL - BLOGBloke

1+1 not necessarily equals 2 :) - Holger Eilhard

Johnny better lesson than high school econ classes? - Andrew Euell

May be people are tired of Bing's ads - notagolfer

tytycoon - Instapaper.com is good or create a readitlater tag for Delicious or another social bookmarking service. - Mark Krynsky

We're just serving it up on a silver platter for Leo and the gang to talk about. :) - Matt Cutts

Mark Pilgrim does 'this week in HTML5' http://blog.whatwg.org/categor... - Kevin Marks

I believe the Google toolbelt launched in May, before Bing did their redesign/relaunch. - Matt Cutts

Mark Krynsky: Thanks; I'll try that out. - tytycoon

Bing...those commercials creep me out. - James Williams

http://ribbit.com/wave for more info about Ribbit on Wave and a link to our API specs - Kevin Marks

Great show! Glad that Jeff is doing well, too. - Matt Cutts

Glad I caught TWiG this week! - Jeff Harbert

Thanks Leo! Great show! - Holger Eilhard

Nice show - notagolfer

Excellent show - John Atkinson

This Show always makes me happy! Thanks Leo! - tytycoon

They're gonna be saying the same thing about Google Wave like they did Twitter - "So what the hell is this thing anyway?" - BLOGBloke

when is the video going up? - James Williams

Leo, you can leave a cardboard cutout of you - live from Dubai :) - notagolfer

I'll do the show! - Jeff Harbert

video always takes an hour or two to trim and post - Kevin Marks

Thanks everybody, great as usual! This thread looks far better here than in Wave, actually (a huge mess). - Jérôme Flipo

Leo, do you need to do an ad for this show? - Johnny Worthington

Nice one Johnny....perhaps a PSA for FFundercats? - Mark Krynsky

Nah... we're good :) - Johnny Worthington

lol - Danny Minick

I'm out. Thanks everyone! - Jeff Harbert

But did that include paying hosts? - Johnny Worthington

Awesome...congrats Leo. - Mark Krynsky

Yeah last time you trended it was about the whole Palm Pre Arrington thing. ROFL - Danny Minick

thx Kevin. - James Williams

Can I guard the TWiT War Chest? - Johnny Worthington

Maybe the IRS will read that you only make $1 per year and adjust your 1040 accordingly! - shelter watch

You're not menacing enough sans beard Johnny. - Mark Krynsky

Mo' Money, Mo' Money, Mo' Money. - Danny Minick

The good thing about GoToMeeting... the other person doesn't need to know how to use stuff like Wave... which will be an issue :) - Johnny Worthington

I used GoToMeeting for tech support for my family; that twig free trial came in handy - tytycoon

I miss the Gilmor Gang being here. - Debi Jones

I use GoToMeeting with Chris Pirillo once in a while. - Danny Minick

Nice! Not just changing communication, but access to it - Johnny Worthington

Anyone have a wave invite they're willing to part with? After all this, I feel left out of the whole thing. - tytycoon

When and how will you grow your programming/content offers, Leo? - Debi Jones

All this in 18 minutes? Will we be able to watch it online after you've given your speech? - shelter watch

Doesn't TED post all their stories online at ted.com - tytycoon

tytycoon if you just can't wait, some people are selling invites on ebay. - Debi Jones

I'll take a look at that, Debi - tytycoon

TED has a youtube channel. - Debi Jones

Let us know we all follow you on twitter - Rick

Did you have to sign a contract since you're doing it pro bono? - shelter watch

i saw an invite on ebay for $30 a couple days ago - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

Tummel Talk pilot was a great show Leo - John Atkinson

nothing like gmail invites years ago - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

Leo, do you plan on going to BlogWorld after you return from Dubai? - Mark Krynsky

How about This Week in Philanthropy? How to use the Internet & social media for fund raising, etc. - shelter watch

Will you ever do a show or shows for enterprise tech? - Debi Jones

Leo - loved today's show - too bad I don't have an invite to Google Wave. Their product launches suck. - joebrooks

I like it. I can't always watch live being here in Oz - Johnny Worthington

Get Cranky Geeks? - Rick

Yeah need TWiT on demand. - Debi Jones

Debi, iTunes offers that. - Mark Krynsky

And TWiT will soon - Johnny Worthington

Thanks Mark would prefer on demand through browser. - Debi Jones

Fantastic. I look forward to seeing you there. Streaming to HT set top boxes will be great. I'm enjoying PlayOn on my PS3 - Mark Krynsky

Will you be dressing up for the Oct 31st Twig? - joebrooks

joebrooks their launches are like the usual marketing-driven, mass-hoopla ones in the industry - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

er, *aren't - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

If you search ted.com for tedx, They do have a few talks from that conference, so hopefully you'll come through on that, Leo - tytycoon

Leo have you sorted your guests for your Windows 7 Launch Party? - John Atkinson

Leo you mentioned partnering to distribute content? Have you considered CNET Live, like syndicating their shows? - Andrew Euell

It's 9am here :) - Johnny Worthington

are you doing any talkshoe anymore Leo? - Matthew

I got up early on Sunday - Johnny Worthington

hey im watching on a ps3 now looks awesome - aaron

Debi, you can get TwiT on demand from a browser. Here's a link to the latest one http://twit.tv/twit - Mark Krynsky

Leo would like to talk to you someday about a show that would be a good fit for the network. - Debi Jones

Cool. Thanks, Mark! - Debi Jones

anyone have a link to Jeff's data on Google up Bing down? - Moose

Can we have a camera strapped to Ozzy? :P - Johnny Worthington

Not all operators allow tethering. - Debi Jones

for Moose: http://gs.statcounter.com/press... - Derek Chilcoat

ok to be hated by the right people - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

(whoops, sorry) - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

Thanx Derek! - Moose

Seriously, who could hate Leo. He's warm and fuzzy. - Debi Jones

np :) - Derek Chilcoat

people that hate warm & fuzzy - Preternat (Ken Cadby)

Hae you tried Nimbuzz? - Debi Jones

how long does it take you to go from this live stream to the audio that you put out over youtube? - tytycoon

Leo, last week I got myself a yoga ball chair... and I fell off it: http://friendfeed.com/jworthi... - Johnny Worthington

too slow - Ron Hudson

Leo, have you ever tried to Skype with someone who is in China for the live stream? Wonder if there would be any network issues doing a stream from China. - Debi Jones

Tease: Today on TWiG: wave wave and nothing but wave. Marshal Kirkpatrick, Kevin Marks, join our rgulars Gina Trapani and Jeff Jarvis to take a look at Google Wave. Everything's shiny captain, This Week In Google is coming up next - Leo Laporte

No wonder you have so many hats in your studio. You had to wear them all! - shelter watch

Watched your ONA speech, it was excellent. Makes me wonder why you're not on more tech conference speaker rosters? - Debi Jones

That is pretty epic data transfers with the flash drives. Did you ever have any problems with backing up? have you ever lost a show? - tytycoon

Josh and I use dropbox and we take turns each week to edit. Juggling time for that with family and work is tough - Johnny Worthington

I think Fibre Chanel for just a few stations is VERY over rated. ISCSI or NFS is quite enough if properly designed, and a fraction of the cost. - kevin

I love dropbox. I use it for everything - tytycoon

Leo, I was wondering if you should have single 'After Hours' post on twit-conversations so we don't fill show threads with off-topic chat - Johnny Worthington

I thought you were moving to a storefront? - shelter watch

This cottage looks so much nicer than what I imagine a storefront would be - tytycoon

That's a lovely, historic location that you are in now. I love architecture history. - shelter watch

Business... YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT - Johnny Worthington

Nice tradeoff for your organization: venture capital vs. a lot more discretion for you. - shelter watch

Remember the Dave Ramsey rule of 3-6months overhead in the bank! - Rick

Oh god, that sounds horrible - tytycoon

in exchange for plugging carbonite do they give you free backup for twit? - tytycoon

They always say to do something for work that you would do for free if you had to because you LOVE it. - shelter watch

Your radio show is "the tech guy", right? - tytycoon

Passion is a good thing - Johnny Worthington

Spend an extra 10% rather than another 100% - Johnny Worthington

Johnny good idea for after hours thread. - Debi Jones

The clock behind Leo shows when it's live. - Allen Christensen

That's a good point, Allen - tytycoon

I still watched every day :) - Johnny Worthington

But I see it as a Call For Help type if show so it fits with TWiT... I like listening when I have listened to everything else - Johnny Worthington

anything special planned for the dubai radio show? - tytycoon

Leo, how about this week in Linux? - Ron Hudson

Calacanis - Johnny Worthington

isn't FLOSS kind of like that? - tytycoon

Can GW invites be purchased on Ebay like Google Voice? - Johann Diaz from Nambu

Ya I guess, but it needs linux in the name lol - Ron Hudson

Yeah, but they're about $30, johann - tytycoon

Thanks Leo. - Johnny Worthington

Leo I wouldn't worry if Ozzy isn't over weight. Duck does have alot of fat though. - Debi Jones

Thanks, Leo. Have a good night - tytycoon

Lololololol, no invites left heh - Johann Diaz from Nambu

I quess $30 is nit bad if you can actually use this to be productive. Thanks tytycoon - Johann Diaz from Nambu

Finally getting a chance to listen to this... Just to clarify, Wave is not really extension to XMPP per se. The federation protocol between Wave servers is XMPP based, but the client-server communication (in this case the communication between your browser and the Wave server) isn't using XMPP. I believe that at the moment it's a proprietary format for exchanging JSON. There's some discussion both on Wave and in Google Groups about standardization, but it's distinct from server-server federation right now. - Ken Sheppardson

I've created a wave for upcoming TWIG 12, feel free to join if you have a wave account... https://wave.google.com/wave... - Jörg Reinhardt

Mike Bracco to Mike's feed, ScobleRoom, building43

Scoble: Doesn't look like the "2010 web" term is catching on :) The last reference to it on LazyFeed was two days ago, and 4 days ago after that....I hate the term web 3.0 but we might have to go with it, no?

July 30 - Comment - Like - Share

Daniel Rowley, Rob Cairns, Roberto Bonini and 5 other people liked this

I like the term Live Web for what it seems the 2010 web was trying to communicate. Web 3.0 is more about the data-driven semantic web. FWIW that's how I've interpreted these terms. - Debi Jones

10 more comments

maybe not 2 many cares - polou/indigo_bow

I don't care what we call it. As long as it isn't web 3.0. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

Web 2.1.3 service pack 2 - Mistletoe Glen

I think Glen is being realistic! :D - Micah Wittman

Web 3.0: The Quickening? - Johnny Worthington from iPhone

how about lose the term game and just focus on actual tech? - Josh Haley from iPhone

No, it's fluff. "web 2.0" still means nothing. It doesn't help describe anything. At least "2010" describes a specific time period I suppose. - Josh Haley from iPhone

2010 web just means the web that we will have next year. A few years after that you don't want to have 2010 web, but something more like the 2013 web. The same way you can look back and see the 1995 web, which is not something you would like to have next year. The web has evolved and websites could try to catch up. - Peter Stuifzand

I like the term of "the web"...the web is what it is...Adding more services to it doesn't make it a new web. It's not like you are buying a car. My 1999 Honda Accord doesn't get a new name just because I add in a stereo with wifi and Bluetooth. - Alex Scoble

I just call it the Internet. - Andy Bakun

Andy, I do notice style guides are losing the capital I. Meaning the internet is now a fact of life and not this curiosity that might go away. I think. - MaryB, BrandingBroadOfFF

Duncan Riley

FTC swoops in and smacks down rogue ISP Pricewert - http://www.inquisitr.com/25232...

June 4 from The Inquisitr - Comment - Like - Share

411 - Debi Jones

building43: Debi Jones

Who here knows which is the largest mobile market in Europe?

September 9 - Comment - Like - Share

It might surprise you to learn that Europe's largest mobile market is Russia, and they have not yet made the transition from voice focused to data focused. Lots of opportunity there. - Debi Jones

Zee. to Zee.'s feed, TheNextWeb Forum, Appetite, building43

Google, Gmail experiencing downtime around the world (Back Online for Most) - http://thenextweb.com/2009...

September 1 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Daniel Rowley, Mohammad Keshvary, Debi Jones and 11 other people liked this

ahhhhh, panic. - Leandro Ardissone ⍨ from IM

17 more comments

chaos :o - MafiaX

Down for me. Damn. - Robert Peña

Same here...eep! - Jonas, Leper of FF

:( down here too... #isdown #gmail - AJ Batac

Why the big panic? IMAP is still working for Gmail. - Sparky

@Sparky majority of people don't use Gmail via IMAP - Zee.

yes, but in case of emergency it's good to know - Leandro Ardissone ⍨ from IM

Its down in korea :-( - Mel Buckpitt

#yesgmailisdown :-( - Ladybug Heather

grrrrr - ProsePetals (aka Denise)

it was acting funny a few days ago, actually. - Joe Silence is not Santa

Updated - Zee.

Welcome to the cloud and it's future. :-) - Debi Jones

Gmail down = break time for everyone! c'mon! - Leandro Ardissone ⍨ from IM

What I meant is welcome to the cloud and YOUR future in it. - Debi Jones

So far...I'm working an hour late thanks to this. - CandaceWerry

updated - back online - Zee.

back online - but i'm waiting to hear the story - Naor Mark

building43: Debi Jones

The FCC is moving forward with it's National Broadband Plan and has adopted live streaming for workshops, a blog for discussion and now a Twitter account too. The underlying infrastructure "appears" to be something that the web community at large either a) takes for granted or b) equates to the web itself. This group is a perfect example. Why?

August 18 - Comment - Like - Share

Daniel Rowley, Nicholas James, Robert J Taylor and 5 other people liked this

The tagline for Building43 is "for people who are fanatical about the Internet," but the discussion is clearly only about the Web. Whether it's the "2010 Web" or some other variation. I'd like to understand why for web people "the web" = the Internet, and why the transport and connectivity are assumed. The direction large ISPs are taking us will result in a return to closed networks like the Compuserve and Prodigy and where the web is something we receive instead of something we build. It will be something we consume like cable TV instead of something we "do" like networking. Can any of you enlighten me with your observations? - Debi Jones

16 more comments

Actually, the tagline is: "We’re building43. What are you building?". The "fanatical about the Internet was our pre-launch tagline. - Rob La Gesse

But you raise a valid point. I helped develop WiFi, and nobody is ever amazed that they get WiFi - only when they don't. I think people don't care about the plumbing - as long as when they are thirsty they get water. Same with broadband, cell phones, etc. Who cares, as long as it works? But when it stops - EVERYONE cares! - Rob La Gesse

Datacenters and fanatical interest in them is all fine and good but is POINTLESS unless you take a holistic view of the access layer that provides paths for PEOPLE to reach the damn things. Seriously folks. 2010 will be here shortly and most of the "networks" most bleeding edgers are full of FAIL when it comes to grasping what broadband is, how it works, how it arrives in a market, and all the things the NBP is going to mean. Suggestion: You want more views? Add more PEOPLE to the network!! - Jay Cuthrell

How many CDN's are hosted within a "building43" out there? Where will they be in 2010, 2011, 2012 --- do you know who your customer is? http://telephonyonline.com/busines... - Jay Cuthrell

Rob, waiting until it doesn't work is not a good strategy for a National effort that will determine our ability to get to the cloud and it's services for years to come. I'm looking for help to educate. This is an excellent group to start with methinks. - Debi Jones

Just as a review for future additions to this thread: http://blog.simeonov.com/2006... I'd like to understand how a "building43" is going to address peering and connectivity enhancement for lesser known NAP and seen AS Number -- i.e. building and peering with an implicit acknowledgment of the networks less traveled. http://www.potaroo.net/tools... - Jay Cuthrell

:) I agree it is a horrid strategy. I was just making a comment on the general lack of concern people have. Kind of like the people that drive 2,000 miles with the "check oil" light on, and are suddenly surprised when the engine seizes up. It's part of our "entitlement society". But we don't need to worry - just as with health care the Government will make it all right. Make it all "even". That''ll solve everything :) - Rob La Gesse

In what efforts around the National Broadband Plan, or even better, the Future of Connectivity is Rackspace or Mosso or Building43 supporting or partcipating? The layers below the browser are highly critical to your business. What's the strategy for those layers? - Debi Jones

building43 is an informative site - meant to be helpful to small-medium businesses. Feel free to drive the conversation by contributing. building43 itself is new, and not in a position to take a stance on national issues. Feel free to educate us though. Just read the contributor guidelines first: http://www.building43.com/contrib... - Rob La Gesse

I'm contributing here. What is Rackspace doing? Again, on an issue critical to the business I'm looking for what the business is doing to ensure it's future. I'm guessing all current and future customers would be curious on this point. - Debi Jones

Rob -- not sure I grasp the logic that equates "new" with the inability to take a stance by lack of position. The SMB market can only take advantage of social tools value prop by having access to them. This invariably leads to the question of broadband paths. And yes, I read the contributor guidelines and I don't sell a product or a service. I just radiate passion on topics and I'm highly sensitized to orthogonal goals of online and offline business innovation that assumes ubiquitous broadband access. - Jay Cuthrell

Rob given your previous experience with Wi-Fi I know you grasp the challenges that our connectivity faces under the current regime of Telecommunication law, the growth of interception points and threat to the end-to-end principle which is essential to free moving data. Your datacenter knowledge likely makes you cognizant of the challenges being faced by the current set of protocols and... more... - Debi Jones

Debi, I'm interested to hear more about your specific concerns about the National Broadband Plan. I'm looking for education around key issues that we all need to be aware of as consumers/users of the web and for reasons why companies like Rackspace should be concerned. Rob, it would be interesting understand what Rackspace's position is on some of these key matters and how it affects business and users. - Jason Cronkhite

Debi, found your call to action post and am watching the video and trying to read up. I'm ashamed I am just learning about this but, I will do what I can to spread the word. - Jason Cronkhite

I love the fact you're into us enough that you're pointing out ways we can improve. Seriously, thank you! I will put together a plan to engage this omission in a helpful manor.- all the best- Rocky- - Rocky Barbanica

Jason, fortunately these discussions are occurring in other albeit smaller venues. I've been working with and talking through the issues with folks who have a deep understanding of networking some of whom were involved in creating the protocols and technologies that we currently call the Internet. The challenge is to broaden that discussion and understand how to communicate the core issues and to a broader audience. Your and others help in accomplishing this goal is a necessity. - Debi Jones

Rocky, you and Robert have a large audience among the weborati and Rackspace's core business is directly and profoundly tied to the outcomes of the future of connectivity for your customers. SMB's and the growth of opportunity within that segment are the biggest stakeholders for NBP outcomes. Understanding the barriers to concept attainment for those stakeholders is something that I'm... more... - Debi Jones

Jay Cuthrell to Jay's feed, US National Broadband Plan

A rather odd panel of experts opine for 40 minutes on broadband issues - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

August 11 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Michael R. Bernstein and Mac Sharp liked this

Michelle Munson makes the most cogent remarks on the issues. She's absolutely correct about the high number of interception points and the threat to the end-to-end principle. OTOH, Toby Ford from AT&T makes the statements that should be of concern to everyone - that AT&T understands the value that exists at the edge of the network and plans to capture it all. A centralized network... more... - Debi Jones

Totally agreed. Michelle Munson was the only panelist that I found to be truly insightful. Very impressive remarks as well as an understanding of the core issues vs. pontification in a company centric manner. - Jay Cuthrell

Robert Scoble

Wow. FriendFeed goes to Facebook? Wild!

August 10 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Iván Abrego, Chris Greene, John Wang and 17 other people liked this

Not believing this until I see some more proof. - Brandon Titus

15 more comments

Will Google acquire Facebook next? - Ian Tindale

Look what you did. - ydfeed

Is this for real or are you just referring to the TechCrunch post? - Paul Jacobson

Yea! Crazy! http://bit.ly/AIEYG - Daniel Brusilovsky

i refuse to believe. not while TC is the only source. - Edgar Rodríguez

I dont like this all :( - Fee501st

I wonder if Facebook will basically incorporate the FF technology/interface. - Scott Paley

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! I hope this is just a rumor. - Rob Diana

B L A M E S C O B L E - Bwana ☠

Seems uncool. - Anthony Citrano

Not beliving it either...... - Roberto Bonini

Sigh and I just recently discovered the awesome FriendFeed. I sure hope this site stays and they go copy whatever code they want for Facebook. If it's true I still need to congratulate the staff at FF, you certainly deserved it. - Patrik Arwengrim

I don't see the point of Facebook acquiring FriendFeed. They are pretty much identical services (well, FF represents just the News Feed portion of Facebook) I don't see how they can incorporate FriendFeed into Facebook. If they really did buy it, then I see this as them going for programming talent more so than the IP and will leave FriendFeed to wallow and die off. Much like Google did with Jaiku when they bought them for the human talent at Jaiku. - Christopher A. Wichura

Official: http://friendfeed.com/friendf... - Brandon Titus

This means our beloved FriendFeed is dead right? I really hate Facebook! - Jannifer @wordsforliving

Dear FF - RIP. I'm with Jannifer on Facebook....two big thumbs down. - Debi Jones

LANjackal to LANjackal's feed, Coming Up NOW, TheNextWeb Forum, building43, RWW: The Future of Tech

State of The Wireless Broadband: 150 Million Subscribers & Growing - http://gigaom.com/2009...

July 22 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Kaan Bingol, shâhin, Daryl Hunt on FF and 2 other people liked this

"According to the GSM Association (GSMA) there will be 150 million HSPA connections worldwide by end of the summer. There are 300 HSPA-networks in 127 countries and about 1500 HSPA devices, GSMA estimates." - LANjackal from Bookmarklet

Compare this announcement to the report from Bango, billing and anaylytics provider, that 1 in 5 connections from smartphones occurs via Wi-Fi. :-) - Debi Jones

LANjackal to LANjackal's feed, Coming Up NOW, TheNextWeb Forum, RWW: The Future of Tech, building43

Fourth major US WiMAX deployment launches today - http://www.betanews.com/article...

July 21 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Roldano, Francesco D'Orazio, Shevonne and 3 other people liked this

"Right on schedule, the latest Clear WiMAX network has launched, bringing 4G wireless coverage to 638 square miles of Sin City. Clearwire detailed its plans for Summer launches in Atlanta and Las Vegas in early May. Today, Clearwire recapitulated its goal to have more than 80 markets covered by the end of 2010, which will include Chicago, Charlotte, Dallas/Fort Worth, Honolulu, Philadelphia, and Seattle before 2009 is out. Networks planned in 2010 include New York, Boston, Washington DC, Houston, and the San Francisco Bay Area." - Hmmm maybe Clearwire isn't full of crap after all ... - LANjackal from Bookmarklet

Clear,net downlink is a healthy 4mb, but they like all "service providers" squeeze the uplink to a paltry 500kb. Stupid. - Debi Jones

Robert Scoble

EVERYTIME I notice a market shift, lots of people call me an idiot. Noticing the mobile shifts underway in Europe is no different. More:

July 12 - Comment - Like - Share

Iván Abrego, Thomas Ho, Chris Rodgers and 32 other people liked this

Here's an example: http://thereallymobileproject.com/2009... - Robert Scoble

164 more comments

The thing is, I talked with dozens of developers from across Europe this week and none of them said I was wrong. They said that there is a huge shift underway in Europe and that Nokia HAS lost mindshare and developer leadership and is underway to market share losses too. - Robert Scoble

This is something you can see with your own two eyes in the street. I'm seeing a huge number of iPhones compared to last year in London. - Robert Scoble

By Europe you mean Norway for eg. ? If so then it's more than natural! - directeur

At one London session of entrepreneurs I spoke in front of, 30% of the audience had iPhones. That was unheard of last year. - Robert Scoble

directeur: I am mostly talking about London, because i have the most experience there (been visiting there for years and watching mobile trends there). - Robert Scoble

Nokia has lost leadership and lost support of developers and Europe no longer has phones that make me jealous. - Robert Scoble

So you're saying the iPhone is popular? Um...what's next? - Tyler Hurst

It is natural! Mobile in northern europe is more developed than anywhere else - directeur

That is a HUGE shift from five years ago. - Robert Scoble

Tyler: not just iPhone. Lots of non-Nokia phones. Blackberries. Androids. - Robert Scoble

Robert, the infrastructures are ready, I bet better than in the USA - directeur

The texting culture there, though, is causing Nokia to miss out on the web revolution that's happening in mobile globally. - Robert Scoble

Having spent some time with the Nokia N97, the iPhone is a stunningly better offering... - Buzz Bruggeman

directeur: yes, and the infrastructure is being used by iPhones. - Robert Scoble

Surely its no surprise that wealthy entrepreneurs would have an expensive mobile phone? - Mark

Buzz: it isn't even close, unfortunately. - Robert Scoble

texting must die! - Tim Hoeck

Robert- iPhone more popular than anything else? Is it the apps that are winning? - Tyler Hurst

Mark: you are particularly clueless with that statement. Most entrepreneurs are very poor compared to others in society. - Robert Scoble

welcome home Robert... :) - Bill Heslin

Texting won't die..but the availability of apps on the iPhone will widen the gap.. - Buzz Bruggeman

Mark: entrepreneurs are WHO SHIFTS SOCIETY though. So what they do everyone else does shortly. - Robert Scoble

Yes, but Nokia is fully invested in what's happening in the Valley, look at what they're doing at their Research Center here and look at the Valley companies they've bought - Chris Nuttall

Robert, I'm excited to see where things go. I've been watching the market and yes believe there's is about to be a catalytic shift. - Jason Cronkhite

Buzz: it's interesting that some of the coolest iPhone and Android apps are coming out of Europe. - Robert Scoble

Seems pretty obvious to me. My egocentric analysis sees nothing of interest in their(Nokia's) arsenal. - Geoff Schultz

Look at the distribution platform... no suprise... - Buzz Bruggeman

Chris: yes, and what has Nokia done with that investment? Just because you own a great set of technologists doesn't mean you will be able to fix your UI problems and your lack of belief in the web. - Robert Scoble

A friend told me there are more than 130k iPhones on the T-Mobile network here in the USA, e.g. all hacked... - Buzz Bruggeman

Palm, iPhone, Android all treat the web as a first class citizen on their devices. Nokia doesn't. THe web SUCKS on Nokia phones. - Robert Scoble

Chris works for Financial Times, by the way. I'm very interested in hearing his observations about what Nokia will do to fight the Palm/Android/iPhone push to web and great UIs. - Robert Scoble

Yes, it's a puzzle to me how they have done so poorly with their handsets in the US, but they do believe in the web, after all they have rebranded themselves as an internet company. They are still way ahead in their thinking but not their implementation. - Chris Nuttall

Chris: it's easy to say "we believe in the web." It's far harder to make the web work properly on your devices and make it a first class citizen. - Robert Scoble

On the notion of, "We Are The Media", I was at a local cheerleader camp and it was really interesting to see the lines of parents who all had their phones taking video, pictures and sharing media. It was almost like what you see on the red carpet events. - Jason Cronkhite

Chris... implementation seems to be a fairly important issue.. - Buzz Bruggeman

Scoble - ever use Skyfire? iPhone is going to take the "general public" share as its expected to for the next 3 years, but after that - if mobile technology grows into something more, Nokia will take it back with innovation. Something iPhone has yet to truly offer - Enrique Gutierrez

Enrique: yeah, Skyfire looks interesting but isn't as nice as Android/Palm/iPhone approaches that are natively built in. - Robert Scoble

Robert, Buzz, you're right, just think it's too soon to write them off, damn clever those Finns - Chris Nuttall

Symbian OS is archaic and needs a new browser, certainly, but you can't dance the fact that iPhone has offered little innovation outside of marketing appeal. Nokia is where the forward advancement in mobile tech is going to come from - Apple has not ever and will not ever provide that (as they don't NEED to) - Enrique Gutierrez

Finns are fine, bring out the sauna, but look rather at all the developers on the iPhone platform... - Buzz Bruggeman

Enrique: it's interesting. I have been using a Nokia phone for the past week and it sucks. Copy and paste? Far harder than iPhone. Taking a picture? Far harder than iPhone. Loading an app? Far harder than iPhone. Finding a wifi network? Far harder than an iPhone. Pulling up a web page and typing into it? Far harder than an iPhone. THAT IS INNOVATION THAT MATTERS, NOT WHETHER YOU HAVE A ZEISS LENS!!!! - Robert Scoble

Doesn't anybody ever have a problem with the iphone soft keyboard? I can't seem to get it right ended up back with the blackberry. - Jim

Nokia has been struggling for years to keep up with competition innovation. - Jason Cronkhite

Right now the bigger issue is what Apple has chosen to reveal in the iPhone OS, and what ATT can support! There aren't enough Finns to go around to match this.. - Buzz Bruggeman

"far harder" is FULLY subjective. - Enrique Gutierrez

Robert...btw...how was London? Don't you just love it? - Bill Heslin

Chris: true. You can never count out Nokia, they have lots of interesting research labs and interesting people working hard on mobile, but they did lose their leadership and now it will be very interesting to see how they will get it back. - Robert Scoble

As for the softtkeyboard, Jim, it is good enough.. - Buzz Bruggeman

Enrique: no, it is NOT subjective at all. Just put a bunch of people in a room and measure it. I was with a bunch of geeks this week and we were forced to use Nokia phones and they really, really suck. You have no idea how badly they suck. And then when I talk with entrepreneurs and see that 30% have already switched, well, you are totally wrong and missing the boat. - Robert Scoble

Oh cool, an Apple v. Nokia thread. Robert, good for you if you're right. However, please don't mistake London for the whole of Europe. Or developers with average users. And please don't ignore the fact that there's more mobile web traffic in Europe than in the US (which was, if I'm not mistaking, said in that Really Mobile post you linked to). - Vlad Bobleanta

Yes, I think they need to strike more alliances here - the Intel one is a good start and supporting something like Moblin - Chris Nuttall

Vlad: I noticed the same thing last year at LeWeb in France and at Davos in Switzerland and in Tel Aviv in Israel (where there isn't even an Apple store, or there wasn't last year). - Robert Scoble

Vlad: average users ALWAYS follow developers. Why? Because cool apps drag people to new platforms. Eventually. And my subway trips in London prove that out too, lots of iPhones all over the place, just like in San Francisco. - Robert Scoble

Chris: those alliances won't fix Symbian. I think Symbian needs to pull a Palm and start over. - Robert Scoble

I've worked with Nokia phones for 11 years, they have definitely come out with shit phones, and crap OS works, but in the end - they thought of every aspect behind the iPhone 10 years ago with their "Yellow Egg"; and have strived to do more & do better. iPhone... no multitasking? crap camera quality? please, they trim & skim - and it's Apple, the abusers of the consumer. It's just how it is, Apple is a marketing platform, Nokia is a mobile tech company. Simple. - Enrique Gutierrez

Slowly people will start shifting to soft keyboard smart phones. - Keven

Yes Symbian sucks, but it's like Microsoft abandoning Windows asking them to do that, well, maybe not quite that severe a move - Chris Nuttall

Enrique: again, the web is far more important to most people than having a sharp camera. This is provable. And having a great UI that's easy to use, along with tens of thousands of applications that are fun is more important. - Robert Scoble

As for Nokia, they're a little busy selling 1.5 million phones a day, and most of those to "emerging markets" such as India. As for the browser in the N97, I beg to differ. The UX is not 100% "there yet", but then again, it knows what Flash is. And it's by far Nokia's best browser so far. So I guess in the end you have to make a choice. Pretty or functional. Just don't mistake one for the other. Or you could just install another browser if you don't like it. Because you can do that on a Nokia. - Vlad Bobleanta

Vlad: I know the market share argument. It sucks as an argument. Alta Vista used to own the market share against Google too. - Robert Scoble

How much money do you make selling cheap phones in India? Just curious? - Buzz Bruggeman

Reducing Nokia to being simple a "nice camera" shows me that you're fixated on a biased notion. - Enrique Gutierrez

Buzz: Nokia makes a lot, but that isn't my point. My point was that Europe used to be three to five years ahead in devices and now it is behind. THAT is a HUGE shift and one that is causing tons of developers to switch loyalties. - Robert Scoble

Enrique: there is NOTHING ELSE on the Nokia phones that comes close to being better than the current iPhone. Sorry, you can keep that argument up but it does not hunt. - Robert Scoble

Enrique: what matters most is delivering something that users will adopt and love. And, that is what Apple does well. Sorry to say that Nokia is just not delivering and has not for some time. I used to be and avid Nokia promoter (sold the product for years) but its time for them to deliver something to the market that performs and brings new value to use applicaitons. - Jason Cronkhite

Robert, I know you're busy - but to keep things ... realistically put together for this discussion, I've already written on this matter: http://enrique-gutierrez.com/2009... and followed it up with http://enrique-gutierrez.com/2009... - Enrique Gutierrez

Buzz: It doesn't matter. You're there, the No.1 brand in India for years in a row. And then you add services to the mix. And give people their first EVER internet experience (on a phone, yes). Because that's just the way it will be. More people will be introduced to the net on a phone than on a computer in a couple of years, if not already. And most of those people are in India, Africa,... more... - Vlad Bobleanta

It's too bad Nokia never managed to invent a good user experience while they were busy inventing everything else. - Geoff Schultz

Jason, the problem with Nokia is US market centric for the most part. They have failed to introduce anything ground-breaking WITH service provider support since the Nokia 5190 (the first phone to introduce Apps, btw) - Enrique Gutierrez

Well yeah. it's a now market. - Patricia

Vlad, so true ... developing and emerging markets will also shine new light on potential use cases. - Jason Cronkhite

Enrique: I've read your articles. They read like Nokia press releases. I've written them too. Here's my version of your article: http://scobleizer.com/2008... written MONTHS AGO. The thing is, I wrote it before the iPhone 3GS came out and before I had good face time with the N97. Today? Sorry, the N97 doesn't come close to the iPhone. - Robert Scoble

I'd say you should look more towards the sony ericsson joint venture for the european handset firm with a better grasp on the market, even if their products have been a bit crap too. But then, I've never met a single phone yet that has been perfect. The iphone has its share of problems (the fact that after about 2 to 3 hours use the damn thing is dead, the touchscreen can be very hit or... more... - alphaxion

Jason: sorry, emerging markets are momentum plays. They ALWAYS FOLLOW what happened elsewhere. Name a single thing that's come up market. Just one. - Robert Scoble

If by user experience, all of you mean learning curve, I agree. There's a learning curve with Symbian, there isn't with the iPhone. But, after that has gone, the user experience is very close. If you're just willing to try. If you're not, then yeah, the iPhone wins by far. - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert: netbooks. - Vlad Bobleanta

Netbooks lol - Geoff Schultz

Vlad: you are missing my point by making it only about the iPhone. You are forgetting the Palm Pre and the Android OS. Those point the way to great UIs with great regard for the Web. Those are the #1 and #2 things consumers are caring about. THEY ARE DRIVING THE MARKET EVERYWHERE NOW. - Robert Scoble

Vlad: netbooks were not developed in emerging markets, unless you say OLPC, which hasn't been very successful anywhere. - Robert Scoble

Robert: Not true, take a look at what has happened in Africa with crime (citizen mobilization) where new technologies have emerged because of constraints. - Jason Cronkhite

There are lots of companies selling lots of Netbooks, and the ones built on Linux get returned to the sellers, e.g. no drivers.. - Buzz Bruggeman

Vlad: you're wrong about the user experience. I've learned to use a Nokia phone. I'm one of the world's leading users of Nokia phones for live video (I was first to do that at Davos, for instance) but it still takes more frustrating clicks to get to the web and the web sucks when compared to the iPhone, no matter how much learning you've done. - Robert Scoble

Most end users don't want to try to learn something, They just want it too work for them easily. - Kim Landwehr

Buzz: exactly, and Jason, that's not something that has gone from third world to first world, sorry. - Robert Scoble

OLPC wasn't successful but it sort of defined a category which is a PERFECT example of what you can expect to come out of innovation for EM's CHEAP GEAR with yesterspec's - Geoff Schultz

Geoff: you do realize that the OLPC was developed in Boston, right. :-) - Robert Scoble

I'm not forgetting the Pre, Palm is forgetting the GSM/WCDMA world. I will remember them in Q4. And I'm not forgetting Android either, but I'm expecting a lot more from it in the future. Right now, I don't think the mass market takes it seriously the way it's starting to do with the iPhone, that is all. As for netbooks, Taiwan is not an emerging market, nor a developing one. But I... more... - Vlad Bobleanta

Kim... agreed, people want easy, productive maybe next...but easy is the most important, e.g. taking anyway event the slightest pain... - Buzz Bruggeman

of coruse but it was designed with EMs in mind. - Geoff Schultz

Buzz: actually, people will pick up more difficult things IF there's a compelling reason to do so. The thing is, iPHone has 40,000 compelling things that Nokia doesn't have: apps. The developers in Europe are building iPhone apps, they are NOT building Nokia apps. - Robert Scoble

I have arguing with Netbook oems that the first one that builds a touch enabled/tablet/Netbook that runs Kindle reader software is going to kick ass... - Buzz Bruggeman

Vlad: remember 1993? The Macintosh was way ahead of Windows. What happened in 1995? Windows became "good enough" and had FAR MORE APPS. That's why I am watching Android. The coolest developers are also building for Android. Apple has to be concerned that it's 1993 all over again. :-) - Robert Scoble

But compelling and pain, perhaps argue for the long tail, I would love to see a distribution chart for iPhone apps, my guess is that the 80/20 rule pervails, e.g. 80% of the iPhone apps are either the top 20 or max top 20%.. - Buzz Bruggeman

netbooks remind me of the old Psion computers (in fact, Psion actually hold the trademark to the word netbook!) - alphaxion

Buzz: No drivers? On an OS that ships with a netbook? LOL. One would think that's the first thing an OEM/ODM would care about. You know, it actually working. Anyway, who cares what OS they ship with, exactly? Thankfully Microsoft made XP cheap enough for netbooks so that it became a valuable proposition. You think people in emerging markets know what Linux is more than people in developed countries? They don't. - Vlad Bobleanta

Bill: I had dinner with someone who had lunch with the queen, but that's the closest I got! :-) - Robert Scoble

Vlad.. Windows 7 on a netbook is dazzling. Get one and try it.. - Buzz Bruggeman

Robert: agreed on apps. People develop for iPhone and Android because it is 100 times easier than for Symbian. That will change, but I wonder if it won't be too late. - Vlad Bobleanta

Bill: we have this conversation EVERY TIME there are shifts. You should have seen my arguments with AOL'ers over the Web in 1995. :-) - Robert Scoble

Buzz: I have a netbook and it's been running 7 since December. - Vlad Bobleanta

What a successful mobile device has to have: 1.) OS 2.) Developers 3.) Network 4.) Hardware 5.) Sex appeal they are fashion accessories now. - Geoff Schultz

Vlad.. and? - Buzz Bruggeman

Bill: I still remember the kids who told me that Macintoshes were stupid, too, and that the world doesn't need mice and windows. Yeah, that went over very well. - Robert Scoble

Why haven't you installed Linux on it...it's cheaper.. - Buzz Bruggeman

Buzz: And what? I don't understand what the point of your suggestion was. I use Win7 on all my computers. Therefore, I like it. A lot. - Vlad Bobleanta

Why do people argue against shifts? Because they invested in old stuff and don't want to change. But change is happening and I'm going ot point it out. - Robert Scoble

My point very simply is that the OS platform and all the apps that run on it are key.. there are no meaningful desktop apps on Linux, and the notion that we have bandwidth ubiquity is delusional... - Buzz Bruggeman

Robert: good. I'm not arguing against a shift. Something is always changing, and that's good. Because it's thanks to competition, which itself is the best thing ever imho. However, deeming something dead (as opposed to not having a competitive edge anymore) seems a bit much to me. But again, you might be right. In which case in a couple of years I will gladly admit that you were. - Vlad Bobleanta

these kinds of observations tend to be contentious outside of hard numbers -- people are touchy, you know ;-) -- but anecdotally... i just read the "Dirty Dozen Ugliest and Lamest Cell Phones" list (http://tech.msn.com/product...) and it's a funny look at some seriously BAD design. America has a phone on that list, as does Korea, Japan, and Israel. The other 8 crap phones are all European. Which is kind of surprising. - Karim

Hence, until someone comes along with rich applications that are available either offline or in some 4G world where you always are on line...Microsoft will own huge chucks of this space.. - Buzz Bruggeman

Buzz: But I agree with that. I don't know why, but it seems to me you are associating netbooks with Linux. When most now ship with XP. - Vlad Bobleanta

Vlad: I never said that Nokia was dead. I said it lost its leadership. That is a HUGE difference. Nokia will probably still be a profitable company for decades living off of its momentum. - Robert Scoble

@robert I think some argue against them because too many people cry wolf about them. I mean, I agree with you about a change in the handset market, I do still think Europe will remain ahead of the US for quite some time in most other aspects of mobile comms. But, I wouldn't be surprised if a change there happened. An open mind is a good thing :) - alphaxion

In the 3rd world the OEMs are trying to ship there own builds of Linux, trying to cut costs to the bone.. - Buzz Bruggeman

alphaxion: the neat thing about visiting a place once a year for years is you get to see shifts underway. This is a big one, and there's lots of UK developers who are poised to take advantage of it. - Robert Scoble

Buzz: you have numbers for that? And one more thing, by netbooks I do not mean OLPC. That's on another level. - Vlad Bobleanta

aye, attending tech events in places outside of London (I'd recommend the next time you come to the UK, you step outside of the M25 to see the real UK) you notice that a lot of people talk not only about iphone apps they're developing, but of the web apps they're crafting too. I think the biggest change that is happening is a much bigger uptake of mobile data in general, be it in phone handsets or in dongles strung off of laptops. - alphaxion

alphaxion: my brother-in-law drives a bus in Newport, Wales, so I get there frequently and he says he's seen more iPHones too. - Robert Scoble

Vald, sorry, just anectdotal info...because of our product, e.g. http://www.activewords.com/ , which seems to be the perfect storm beneficiary for Netbooks, I have been reading and talking to anyone/thing I can about Netbooks.. - Buzz Bruggeman

I agree that there's more iphones (I moved from a palm treo to one in december last year), I was just pointing out that there's more to the mobile market than what handset a person uses ;) I still think you should come to some of the tech meet ups in Leeds, Manchester and Sheffield. - alphaxion

Scoble: what made netbooks so popular? The demand for small, light weight computing made for emerging markets. Now, the market has risen upstream because of constraint in the third world and made netbooks popular along with the timing of cloud computing. - Jason Cronkhite

alphaxion: I watch what developers do. I have never seen a shift that the developers did NOT see first. - Robert Scoble

Jason: netbooks are popular here, too. Why? Small low cost netbooks are popular. They didn't start being popular in the third world and move to popularity in Silicon Valley because of that. - Robert Scoble

Netbooks are disposable computers...amortized on a 6 month basis,and there is a nuclear arms race going on, not HP's recent model with HDef screen.. - Buzz Bruggeman

Robert: I see Symbian as becoming less and less mass-market (of smartphones). This segment will probably end up dominated, in a few countries, by the iPhone. And yes, maybe the Pre and Android too. Symbian will become more niche, and it will (read:should) appeal more or mostly to power users. Because of its underlying functionality, modularity and customizability, which are all... more... - Vlad Bobleanta

And about netbooks, Robert. Sorry. No one thought the need for a small low cost notebook existed in the US before they saw the EEE. I do not mean consumers, but manufacturers. - Vlad Bobleanta

And look how long it took the big guys, HP and Dell, to make their own. Always hoping this will just go away and they wouldn't need to sell anything with such small margins. - Vlad Bobleanta

Vlad... "ignore" is the operative word, think easy...that's all I hear, e.g. easy to use, easy to read..the great bulk of the people I know with iPhones have no clue that an iPhone has any limitations.. - Buzz Bruggeman

Vlad: right. But I didn't get netbooks because they were developed for some poor country. I bought them because they were cool and only $400. - Robert Scoble

Buzz: Cool then. But bad for them. Oh, and some day they will. In which case, unless iPhone OS 5 is anything different, they will need something more. - Vlad Bobleanta

Maybe Nokia is waiting(developing) for Chrome OS for its phones - Damian Holmes

Robert: the origination of netbooks where built because of constrained resources to solve other problems. They became popular here after seeing the effects of much simpler use cases because of the 3rd world. We only recognized the opportunity to innovate after the fact. - Jason Cronkhite

Robert: True. But they were sold in poor countries at first. Which drew your (and other connected people's) attention to them. This created a demand. To which Asus and Acer, in their bid to win market share, responded. :) - Vlad Bobleanta

And I've met plenty of developers that have backed the wrong horse ;) The iphone tho, I agree isn't the wrong horse in this case. Still, doesn't change that there is a general migration to mobile based internet connectivity instead of wired connection restricted to your home. Many of the mobile operators in the UK are giving away netbooks with a 3G dongle contract. - alphaxion

Damian: LOL. That was it. That was why it isn't Android, they were waiting for Chrome OS. Now it makes sense. - Vlad Bobleanta

Vlad: we're on the same page re: netbooks. - Jason Cronkhite

Jason: Yup, it seems so. Good to not argue with every single person here :) - Vlad Bobleanta

You make a lot more money being a fast follower than pioneer... Apple understands that...and so does Microsoft... - Buzz Bruggeman

@jason as I mentioned, the netbook is a kinda evolution of the pocket computers from the likes of Psion (who have the trademark on the name "netbook"). - alphaxion

alphaxion: Yes, that trend is extraordinary imho. The more subsidized netbooks, the better. The more people connected to the internet easier, in more places, and not dependant on cables, the better. Oh crap, now I'm going to have to argue with everyone for this. - Vlad Bobleanta

Buzz: that I do agree with completely. - Vlad Bobleanta

Vlad: I am not sure it's true that netbooks went on sale in third-world countries first, but even if that's true, it's not why I bought one. - Robert Scoble

Robert / Vlad: as Robert said, emerging markets are for momentum...well, Apple needs to look at these constrained and emerging markets to see how the product is used as I'm sure further innovation can be had because of circumstance. - Jason Cronkhite

I didn't say it's why you bought one, I said it's why you were able to buy one. - Vlad Bobleanta

Vlad: I don't agree with that thesis, either. Computers are always getting smaller and cheaper. But, let's get back to discussing mobile, cause even if you are right it really doesn't match the mobile shifts going on now and it doesn't explain why Nokia has lost its way. - Robert Scoble

Robert, I think Vlad & I are both saying that more innovation comes from circumstantial or constrained situations than more people give credit to or see. - Jason Cronkhite

Robert: Agreed. I didn't want to hijack this, but you asked for an up-market example. - Vlad Bobleanta

Jason: that's true. Vlad: yeah, but I don't see anyone marketing netbooks as "you should buy one because they are popular in India." While iPhones are marketed down market like that all the time. - Robert Scoble

Bill: heheh. This is how I work out my jet lag. :-) - Robert Scoble

I know but......... - Bill Heslin

Bill: don't worry, I have a ton of Microsoft stuff coming in the morning (among other videos that I did in London). - Robert Scoble

I think the key word in mobile is 'easy'. And this was pioneered by Apple. Which is why I keep coming back to them. It's easy to do this and that. Not much, but what you can do is easy. This is the key to success with average Joes, imho. However, for the so-called power users, I think the more options the better. The less artificially imposed limits, the better. It's how I see it. I... more... - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert: how do you feel about mobile commerce and entertainment i.e. live mobile consumption and mobile transactions? - Jason Cronkhite

Yes there is a shift in terms of attention from developers. The driver is the cool and fast user experience and the easy integration with the cloud and cool new devices IMHO. Europe has to catch up and developers must define their objectives. Why? There are the end users with different phones and a developer should try to reach out more than 1% of the world market. Europe mobile technology must attract end users and developers. BTW: Readers should separate between current market share and a market shift. - bishoph

iPhone has captured developers in a way only the Palm did 10 years ago. For this reason the iPhone is more compelling than the N97. Nokia's have been technically superior for years (internet tethering? come on Apple, Nokia's came with bluetooth modem drivers years ago) but Apple packages better, is easier to use and has attracted developers. Also, it's created a platform where the average Joe will be buying apps rather than the internet/gadget fans only. Technical superiority is only half the battle. - David Reinhardt

Robert: the problem of your initial statement is that you're saying "Nokia is European and used to be ahead in terms of mobile phones development, and now it is not, thus Europe is now behind of USA in mobile terms", but you never justify why or how Nokia's lost leadership puts Europe behind USA mobile-wise. - Marcos Marado from fftogo

Just curious about the usability once again @Robert Scoble. As I understand that u only have to slide down the lens cover of the N97 to activate the camera and then use the dedicated shutter button to take a photo, thus having the camera (and the screen) on a landscape mode like every other digital camera. U say that taking a photo with N97 (or some other Nokia device) is far more complex than taking a photo with iPhone. How much easier it is on the iPhone? - Henrikki

Otherwise quite interesting discussion. Nokia is at the moment as weak as it's weakest link, which is the OS. I have been a bit dissapointed about the time it has taken them to implement touch and really focus on developers. The OS is the platform and that is going through a major transition to open software projekt. Nokia just can't abandon the OS and the platform and the transition takes time. Do they have the time, time will tell. - Henrikki

There is absolutely no way Europeans would create their own proprietary OS for mobile devices to compete with the iphone and symbian. Nokia is BY FAR the biggest worldwide mobile phone producer, they sell about a billion mobile phones each year, no matter how many rich people can afford to buy iphones at your conferences. - Charbax

Android 2.0 is ready in September, that one will enable dozens of new manufacturers to come with iphone-killer devices, absolutely FOR SURE. Archos which I am the biggest fan of, they are french and making an Android phone with HD video playback, HD video record, up to 500GB storage, 4.8" 800x480 OLED touchscreen, Tivo-like video recording, DVB-T and DVB-SH mobile TV reception and... more... - Charbax

I was in West Africa last year and it was pointed out to me by a European working there that even though it's a poor country, everyone has a Nokia. And it was almost true. Every mobile phone I saw was a Nokia. They were intrigued by my iPhone but there is no way they could have used one to it's full potential. Compared to Europe and the US, Africa and Asia are huge emerging markets full... more... - Gilbert Harding

This whole conversation is cracking me up! Keep it up, Robert. Of course, a handset isn't the only measure of markets, technologies or leadership in mobile. I will add this point to Robert's observations. The highest ARPU (average revenue per user) globally is in the USA. The greatest number of talk time per month on a mobile happens in the USA @ almost 1000 minutes/month/per user. We... more... - Debi Jones

I'm in the UK now and have also noticed the shift towards more touch sensitive screens over here... my brother and nieces have had touch sensitive LG mobiles and other brands for some years now, way before I got my iPhone last year. They are all still laughing at my ancient PAYG Nokia phone that I use over here for calls and txts when travelling. It's like a museum piece compared to their cool touch mobiles. - Sally Church

@Henrikki as someone who owns an N97 and an iPhone, they are like night and day. The iPhone you just touch the camera icon on the screen and go, the N97 took me over a week to work out how to take a photo and a year later I still have no clue how to use many of the functions including setting up email on it. The iPhone is intuitive and doesn't need a manual. - Sally Church

@SallyChurch I think you'll find you have an N95. The N97 has only just been released, so there's no way you could've owned it for a year. My wife has an N95 and the only things she uses are the phone functions & to take pictures - everything else hasn't been touched. - Edd McArdle

Robert Scoble

Re: Dear Robert Scoble, No. Sorry. - http://thereallymobileproject.com/2009...

July 10 from Disqus - Comment - Like - Share

Debi Jones, Steve de Mena and polou/indigo_bow liked this

"markwebster: I've been coming to Europe for 15 years and Europe always shoved their cool phones in my face. No longer. Now all the cool kids have iPhones or Android phones. That is a HUGE change. Plus, worse of all, the coolest developers (and I was hanging out with lots of them this week) are building for iPhone and/or Android and not a single one is building for Nokia. That's a huge problem for Nokia, which used to have the mindshare and leadership positions in the mobile world. And my point was that Europe doesn't matter anymore. You're helping me make that point when you bring up Samsung and other Asian phones." - Robert Scoble

Europe doesn't buy European phones to buy European phones, we're not that patriotic. We buy them based on price and features for what we want to use them for (i.e. people here *like* texting). - Steve Farnworth

Robert, the truth is somewhere between your position and that of Mark W. Just as the web is NOT the Internet, a handset is NOT the mobile industry. The point you are making about the iPhone and developers has been recognized long ago by those of us who are and have been in the industry. You should get used to the recoil of Brits when the issue of mobile innovation from the US is... more... - Debi Jones

Robert Scoble

Why isn't there a good iPhone application conference/expo yet? I want to do one, there's too much cool stuff happening here.

July 12 - Comment - Like - Share

metalerik, Anand Sharma, David Potts and 27 other people liked this

With 40,000 apps it's amazing to me that there isn't a good expo yet. MacWorld should have rebranded itself to "iPhone World" and gone for this. This is a HUGE opportunity being left around for a conference planner to take advantage of. - Robert Scoble

40 more comments

I'll be there! - Colin

Colin: we should do one as a community. Maybe this would be a good thing for Building43 to do. - Robert Scoble

why ff don't make ff app for iPhone such as facebook? - ѕнαнιη

Robert - I'd love your opinion on www.SynapticWeb.org - its the basis and framework for our thinking that produced Echo - would love to do a conf on it - Chris Saad

I bet FF apps are coming for mobile, but I don't get why Safari isn't a great way to use FriendFeed. Maybe if you could answer that you'd get a developer interested. - Robert Scoble

You're right that there's a massive opportunity there, a big problem with iPhone developers is that we aren't allowed/don't have excellent places to communicate with each other, this would be cool! - Colin

The cross section of applications may be too broad.. who is the target? - Pogmohoin

That's because 30,000 of those are just fart apps and flashlights. I think WWDC and Macworld do a fine job of highlighting the iPhone apps - BryanSchuetz from iPhone

Have one! Im there! - Jeremy Lane

Bryan: no way. WWDC is NDAd for most things and Macworld is totally lame. - Robert Scoble

I'd love an expo where I could meet tons of the best iPhone developers and see the coolest new apps face-to-face. Discovering new apps is too hard and there's too much innovation. I bet someone does an expo soon anyway. But this would be something fun, me thinks. - Robert Scoble

Well go out there and use your magical scoble power to make it happen! - Jeremy Lane

Why not? I think it's a fine idea. We should have it in Denver. - John Fiala from iPod

How can I help??? I wanna! :) - Sheryl

John: I'm thinking of pulling an Arrington and doing it during MacWorld. :-) - Robert Scoble

maybe you just build a virtual Expo site to rival the App Store..Interact with the developers..leave comments..developers pay for the space.. you are right.. 50 thousand apps and visibility to the top 100! - Pogmohoin

Pogmohoin: no, I don't want to compete with Apple. I want to do a physical event where you can walk booth-to-booth and meet lots of great developers and see their cool apps. - Robert Scoble

I here ya.. But we are not all USA savvy.. Internationalise fella's - Pogmohoin

Pogmohoin: yes, well, we have to start somewhere and since MacWorld is in SF, I say we should do it at the same time. That way developers will already be in town. - Robert Scoble

+1 more for physical event. - Colin

+2 - Jeremy Lane

Cuz the iFart booth would be the size of a football field and no one wants to be next to them. - Geoff Schultz

So the Audience is developers meeting developers? I am not knocking just really trying to nut out the advantages..btw < we are developers.. - Pogmohoin

Robert, is http://www.360idev.com/ the kind of thing you had in mind? - Rachel Luxemburg

I'm Using BuddyFeed it's not perfect but it seems the best for now. the Biggest problem whit this app is u can't like Feeds in the main page this is the worst thing about this app :( - ѕнαнιη

WWDC was in June. That would be a better target for iPhone Devs is you wanted to gather some. Less so, with Mac World. There are a number of events that attract developers. There's really no shortage. The other problem you mention is an interesting one in it's own right. - Debi Jones

http://mobilebeat2009.com/ isn't good enough? It's not specific for the iPhone tho - - barl0w

It's a good idea. Not every developer can make it into WWDC. Need more outlets for developers to get notice. - Bess Ho

Wow, very surprised no one has started one of these up yet! - Arnold Aranez

wow - was just talking to someone about starting a london iphone developer meetup - anyone interested (other than Robert ;-) ) - ping me on ff or twitter @robocallaghan - Robert O'Callaghan

barl0w: nope, I want something JUST for seeing cool iPhone apps. Not discussing strategy, or any of that. Sort of like a "Demo" for iPhone apps. - Robert Scoble

I'm currently using something developed by Boopsie for our conference in Chicago. We have about 23k attendees over the course of six days. American Library Association. It works pretty decently but is primarily a schedule tool. - Kenley Neufeld

Find 10000 FART applications, available from 0.00 to $.$$. - Nitin Nanivadekar

add Microsoft to your Web 2010 cloud. - Nitin Nanivadekar

Unconference format, and if I get an invite I'll write a killer augmented reality app especially for the con. I'll dub it wifi hotspot. It'll identify the overcrowded hot spots neabye and use a decentralized navigation algorithm to lead you to uncontested juicy bandwidth. I say this with no prior app experience. - Mark Essel from iPhone

Mark: I don't want a conference. I want an expo. Where you walk around and see tons of great apps and meet the developers. These guys are rock stars. I want to meet them all in one hall. Maybe get the best ones to give a demo in front of an audience, like at Demo. - Robert Scoble

Jarred my app thinking, is there a mobile app that allows bandwidth sharing between nodes (other phones with the app) poor man's wifi extended, using tcp/ip distributed packet sending (if you get cut off the app has to know) I gotta write up a blog post on this idea. - Mark Essel from iPhone

Interesting idea. And I like the comment from Nitin I truly embrace the iPhone and the Applications market but... "Find 10000 F.A.R.T applications, available from 0.00 to $.$$" says something. - Patrick Boegel

I like this idea. I run an iPhone (apps focused) site and spend lots of time looking at and reviewing good/bad/mediocre/great apps - and still feel as if there are lots that pass me by. - Patrick Jordan

Why limit the expo to iPhone developers? - Debi Jones

A link to a post I promised about peer 2 peer mobile phone network speedup. http://friendfeed.com/iphone... - Mark Essel from iPhone

Mike Bracco to Mike's feed, TheNextWeb Forum, building43, Twitter

Does real-time really matter for most of us? Obviously for businesses doing media monitoring and anyone that covers the news, real-time is very valuable. But does the average person need to know what is happening second by second in the world. Isn't it more entertainment than anything at that point? Would love to hear opinions...

June 17 - Comment - Like - Share

Gordon Saunders, Mark Andrew Catton, Jacob and 37 other people liked this

This topic was a debate that occurred on the latest edition of TWiT - http://twit.tv/199 - Mike Bracco

58 more comments

4 me accuracy is way more important, but at the same time, it depends on the value of the news item, expect iPhone, high priority news price items. Then both accuracy and timely manner r important. - polou/indigo_bow

I think real time news is overrated but real time conversation is not -- that is why FriendFeed is potentially so much more useful than Twitter. - Brian Sullivan

Brian: I'd rather hear about news as its happening then in about 4-5 hours when the press start to pick it up ;) - Nicholas James

Real-time is nice to have but not necessary for most people - LANjackal

Brian said it best. - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

@Brian Sullivan -- I third what you said! - Miss Elle

In my view, people are not interested in second-to-second update on anything that is happening around. But they are very much interested in what is happening at the present second. This fact separates the media from the people. - Nitin Nanivadekar

When everything is real-time, can you afford being out of sync? - Panayotis Vryonis

well, if you're planning a campaign, everything = future and estimation. so real-time is the new old news for media planners .) - bora "head" basman

I do spend some time watching stuff come in realtime. It is important if you are having a conversation about something. It is also important for things like breaking news which you may want to track. I wouldn't go so far as to say that realtime is essential and I can't live without it but my Web experience is richer because I have it in FriendFeed. I can find newer content quicker through search and track events more effectively. - Paul Jacobson

If news isn't news-worthy a week later, than it's just a waste of my attention. I vote for Slow News. - Peter

Brian: each platform from email, to twitter, to friendfeed, is an improvement in latency - Mike Chelen

Think about when news breaks, and some guy in the office is the first to hear/read about it. He announces the news loudly, and a lot of people prairie-dog, look it up themselves, and come over to his desk. C'mon, admit it. You know this happens. That right there shows people's interest in real-time. - Hutch Carpenter

Real time is interesting in a certain degree and in specific instances. For example, I'm following the Iranian elections. When I'm online I hit the sites that give 'whats happening now' type updates, but I don't spend a long period of time on those. Because then I want the deeper perspectives that a few minutes/hours/days of reflection/observation/analysis gives to any situation. Not to... more... - Molly

real-time or live allows for true conversations and discussions where the old model is more of a carrier pigeon method of communication ... i like that analogy... - Chris Heath

If your mom made hand-made ice cream, when would you like to know when it's done? In real time, or sometime later? - Robert Scoble

i have to quote @Panayotis : When everything is real-time, can you afford being out of sync? - diego morelli

"The world is changing very fast. Big will not beat small anymore. It will be the fast beating the slow." Rupert Murdoch Esquire Jan. '08 p. 119. And beyond news there is real value in being the 1st to know about events. For example, in job search. If you are the 1st to learn of an opportunity you can act on that knowledge ahead of the rest of the pack. The same applies to business... more... - Debi Jones

News is relative to the person who views or needs it. As Robert points out, you might very well be interested in the "real time news" of your mom making ice cream. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

And: What Debi said! Information is power, and the sooner you have access to the information, the more power you are likely to wield. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

The real time aspect is over-rated because in reality most of us simply aren't available to consume it as it happens. We have things like jobs, or family that take priority. It's useful, but it's not as supremely important as some are making it out to be. - Eoghann Irving

Eoghann: don't you ever chat using instant messenger about business topics, or with family members? in these cases too the responsiveness of realtime messaging allows a greater degree of communication and interactivity - Mike Chelen

block this spammer people! - Chris Heath

As an educator thinking about things like #hackedu in highered, real-time information flow would probably be seen as a strength in online learning, allowing a balance between synchronous and asynchronous online learning to occur. Real-time interaction between learners and teachers adds value to an online learning experience, I believe. Interactive, inquiry-driven learning is the future. - Jason Miller

the web has always been about real-time. why did you think people started to adopt email en mass? real-time as currently being buzzed is actually nothing special - the real question is how we optimize the use real-time technologies (real time in and of itself is not the ultimate objective). Real time definitely doesn't mean that now we are all of a sudden prepared for a lot of noise. Noise is definitely not the price we have to pay for real-time. - Tim Lai

As you can see by when I'm replying I agree to a large extent about not NEEDING real time response/news most of the time. I don't like feeling pressured to 'respond now' or 'read me now' or lose the opportunity. I'm not a fast worker, I deliberate over concepts/situations/concepts. Sometimes for years. :-P - Molly from email

Molly: well, if we didn't have real time systems here I wouldn't have seen your comment in real time and I wouldn't be able to respond to it in real time. Conversations suck when there's latency. - Robert Scoble

Agreed. - Johnny

I think I put a qualifier in there somewhere. However, the only reason I'm replying to you so fast is I'm trying to clean out my inbox(es). Otherwise I'd probably talk to you tomorrow. I don't mind if you want to be immediate. I just expect you to understand that I'm not that into the 'right now' and don't see a reason for me to push aside things that are more important to me just to... more... - Molly from email

Mike Chelen: I frequently chat with my wife on instant messenger during the day. These conversations generally take place over a period of hours because one or the other of us is not available to give an instant response. I don't find this to be any real disadvantage. Real time has its place, but it is not the answer to everything. - Eoghann Irving

Molly, it's not about "sitting in front of your computer screen waiting". It's about immediate real-time updates and discussion so when you actually ARE sitting down you have the latest information and conversations at your finger tips - Johnny

Robert: I don't know about that. Not all conversations suck, just the ones you want to have right now. Some people have long distance chess games that last days, or weeks or longer. Some conversations I have I want to put more thinking time into my next words. What sucks to me, is /having/ to have conversations with a lot of latency. Most of the time we want real time. Even friendfeed is kinda slow since I've seen Wave. :) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

I think there are other situations where real time is important outside of media monitoring/coverage. I have to agree with Scoble about Wave. Even though I've only seen the video on google's website, I can see that kind of realtime collaboration as being a game changer in the business world. But it's not like real-time is new. It's just the mediums are becoming more portable and distributed. On the other hand, why in the world do more than 1 million people need to know that Ashton Kutcher just ate lunch? - ukgrad98

I'm inclined to agree with Rob (guruvan) Nelson and Johnny S on this topic. I think they've explained it well. When you are there in discussion if there's anyone else around you see it in real time. Not having to refresh and knowing that someone just said something is powerful. When you want to have discussion on your own time table you can, but if by chance you and I cross paths we... more... - Chris Heath

"Realtime" isn't about "all the time", it's about "any time". If you're there, watching, and something happens, you should see it right away; if you're not, then you get to see it later. - Tristan Seligmann

Look at the original question. "But does the average person need to know what is happening second by second in the world. " As has been demonstrated in this conversation the answer to that is no. They may wish to, but they don't need to. Their life will function just fine without. it. My life is not inherently richer now than it was when I had to wait to watch the news at 6PM. Like everything else there are advantages to it, but also disadvantages. - Eoghann Irving

"But does the average person need to know what is happening second by second in the world." - that question is a red herring - real time is not about knowing what happening second by second - it is having the ability to communicate in real time if you choose to - Chris Heath

I think sometime realtime can get to much - but I would like a summarised view of the realtime web in realtime. - Paul Kinlan

Maybe we should define "average person".. I'm sure the percentage of users who have even experienced a realtime interaction is < .01% of the users who find email good enough. - Chris Myles

I'm just thinking of my friends and family who don't use twitter; they can't even handle the quantity of information they get in their Inbox .. let alone streaming realtime data. Anybody have any #'s on the number of "active" twitter users? vs Email users? - Chris Myles

News may be old in a week.. but people will always be interested in the discussions/reactions that occurred surrounding an event, even later. like... What did Scoble think about XYZ? In order to log an effective discussion, you need realtime!! In order to make that discussion accessible by the "average person" you need friendfeed - Chris Myles

Chris Heath: We've had that facility since before the internet existed.Telephones, ham radios, BBSes, I really don't think that's what people mean when they talk about real time. - Eoghann Irving

Eoghann, i'm talking about the serendipitous discovery of live 'real-time' communication that /can/ happen when two or more people are 'swarming' around any given topic at the same point in time. in the old days of the web (read: before real time) if you and I were both browsing a site we had no idea that the other was there. Now, thanks to sites like friendfeed, we can discover each other and have 'real-time' conversations. - Chris Heath

Think of an art gallery. You and I both walk into take in some paintings and happen to both be standing in front of the same one and strike up a conversation. Now think of a virtual art gallery online (Thomas Hawk's friendfeed for instance). If you and I happen to be there at the same time we can strike up that conversation. Over on flickr we'd both have to continually refresh the page to see if the other had responded, and that's just not going to happen. - Chris Heath

Real time (aka live) web communications are just more natural and analogous to real life (aka AFK) interactions/discussions/etc than what most sites offer these days. Maybe your site doesn't need or care to have real time or live communications, and that's up to you, but the real time web is very compelling and the advantages are real if not clear. - Chris Heath

Eoghann Irving: yes sometimes conversations may take place over the course of hours, yet other times there may be several messages back and forth in a matter of minutes or seconds. the goal of communications technology should be to provide flexibility so that the user has the best options available. it's true that realtime communications have been available for years in technologies such as the phone, radio, and more, so it is the bringing of this functionality to websites which is somewhat new. - Mike Chelen

@Robert re:Mom's home made ice cream. According to what I'm doing at the time it's done. I may want some now, or save it for later when I've got time to truly appreciate it. Now, if I'm competing for a bowl, I want to know about and claim it NOW. Tim re: email adoption. I started emailing not because of the time factor, but the ease of typing and sending instead of writing by hand,... more... - Molly

It's all about the "users" comfort zone!! I completely agree that real-time is essential to a having a good INSTANT conversation (between those available), but I think you'll start seeing a lot more web based conversations spanning days, weeks .. maybe even more. What about people who are working, offline, or asleep? (do you guys do that?) I'm a "twitter virgin" (http://ff.im/4isgN) so... more... - Chris Myles

Chris, I agree re: conversation. I'm up @ an unusual hour for me. Otherwise I'd be responding sometime later tonight. Because we all work/talk/listen @ the speed we need/want we all can participate. I agree that's the best part. - Molly from email

Molly.. I'm in Turkey right now.. a perfect example of a global web based discussion! - Chris Myles

Christ Heath: I'm not sure you're really getting where I'm coming from. I have repeatedly mentioned that there are advantages to it. But the question I was addressing and the question raised, wasn't whether businessmen could benefit from it. It was whether the average person needs it. And my point is that the average person probably doesn't need it. That doesn't make it worthless, but... more... - Eoghann Irving

I find this very interesting. The division of my company is a national broadcast monitoring service. We provide an in depth tracking service for broadcast television and radio. My delivery of information is about 2-3 hours from the time of a mention vs some competitors that do it in seconds. With my service its all inclusive, human filtered for relevancy and we do all the work for the... more... - Steven Bainnson

Real time is only real time if you are looking at results all of the time. If thats the case then you should probably consider getting a hobby or joining a club a sport or doing something offline. - j grumby

if I log in for the first time in a day and see updates about an earthquake that is just happening, that is pretty realtime to me - Franz Sittampalam from IM

this thread is just about a week old now... kind of says something about the discussion we're having. while it can be in real-time if we're here at the same time in reality we're not all going to be 'swarming' on this discussion full-time in real-time ... thanks to email and im notifications we can keep track of the discussion over this longer period of time. and the speed of the... more... - Chris Heath

Chris, THAT is what I love about online communication. Nice to meet you. - Molly from email

Nice to meet you too. :-) - Chris Heath

Sorry I'm a bit late catching up with this. Is it still current - are we still talking about it? I had a terrible time getting on the web this morning, well not really but I had to go to the kitchen to make oatmeal and that felt like a delay even though it only took a minute (actually two minutes) and I like to eat my porridge in real-time so I sit in front of the screen eating it. And I have a tip for anyone trying this for the first time - put the bowl on a plate. It stops the heat from the bowl ... - david

It's current because we're still talking about it. Nice to meet you. Enjoy your oatmeal. (past tense) Molly - Molly from email

Debi Jones to Debi's feed, building43

Living Ends - http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc... (via http://friendfeed.com/dsearls...)

June 25 - Comment - Like - Share

Doc highlights through the handling of news of Michael Jackson's death the new realities of the "Live Web." Is "Live Web" a better moniker than "Real-time Web?" I'm with Doc on this one. - Debi Jones

Debi Jones to Debi's feed, building43

When web services and the physical world can interact, you get a Sixth Sense - demoed at Ted by Patti Maes, MIT http://www.youtube.com/watch...

June 24 - Comment - Like - Share

Robert Freeze, Mark Essel, Peter Stuifzand and Roshan Ramachandran liked this

this video has gone viral...& why not!! :) I already saw it 2-3 times.... - Roshan Ramachandran

Right the device is only $350 USD, but the power is in the software and services. What do you suppose the price tag is for the backend of something like this? - Debi Jones

Robert Scoble to Robert's feed, building43

Every day I want to learn something new about the Now/New/2010/3.0 Web. Let's learn about microformats today here:

June 22 - Comment - Like - Share

rchk, Daniel Schildt, John Clifford and 48 other people liked this

http://microformats.org/ is the home page. - Robert Scoble

64 more comments

Who has a great example of using microformats? - Robert Scoble

Google search for Microformats: http://www.google.com/search... - Robert Scoble

So far the biggest problem with microformats is that most companies only offer 1 way support. They provide one for you, but don't take yours from elsewhere. Details: http://www.dotcult.com/who-sup... - Ryan Jones

I'd love to have someone on Building43 to explain them. Anyone game? - Robert Scoble

The Operator Firefox plugin was very useful for testing microformats. Hcard is useful when available. - Jauder Ho

cork'd is a great example of hreview - we have building them into sites for about two years now - Pat Strader

I would nominate @kevinmarks for this assignment given his work on RichSnippets - Dilip Dand

FriendFeed uses the rel="me" microformat on the services page (e.g. http://friendfeed.com/paul...) to tag links to my other services. The Google Social Graph API uses these links to find you around the web. - Paul Buchheit

i wrote a recent introduction if anyone is interested i can share, but do not wish to link drop - Pat Strader

Pat: please do share! - Robert Scoble

I'm interested pat - courtney benson

it is very basic http://matterhornmarketing.com/marketi... - Pat Strader

Pat, thanks, it will help I'm sure. - courtney benson

Google Profiles also uses this to guess links that belong to you. - Jauder Ho

we build in hcard primarily as we deal with a great deal of tourism "directory" type sites - Pat Strader

I'd love to have Tantek or Kevin on Building43 to explain microformats and show how to use them. - Robert Scoble

i made some moo stickers if anyone wants some, let me know, microformats stickers have been hard to find for me! - Pat Strader

Thanks Pat! Basic or not it is more than I knew 5 minutes ago! - Marshall Huwe

dan cederholm used them years ago with cork'd - hreview - Pat Strader

Pat - problem with that URL please resend tks - courtney benson

marshall no problem, im very excited about them, just needs more evangelists - Pat Strader

Scoble, besides Building43 ;) What is a great website to keep on top of the 2010 Web? Are there any web resources that you're particularly fond of? My favorites are Mashable, Read Write Web, and TechCrunch. - Sam Houston

courtney - try this http://snip.li/bc13f8 - Pat Strader

tks, I'll try now - courtney benson

Sam: Stack Overflow, but that's more aimed at programmers. Hacker News. And then there's a ton of people I follow. I put the best ones at http://www.friendfeed.com/scoblei... - Robert Scoble

Cool, thanks Robert! :) - Sam Houston

If someone wants to set up a local (SV) meetup, I'd be there. Trying to digest as much as I can since format adoption appears inevitable. - Rick Bucich

Calais 2.0 showing some potential ... Calais 2.0 unveiled by Thomson Reuters http://blogs.zdnet.com/semanti... - Willi Schroll

here's something about iPhone you may not have thought of:http://patriciahandschiegel.tumblr.com/post... - Patricia

i think with google now saying they will use them in some capacity will increase the adoption rate for developers - Pat Strader

Rick, Tantek had a #microformats meetup going for a while. Check out the microformats site. - Jauder Ho

Brian Suda's book is a good read for those so inclined - Pat Strader

Pat, you've given me enough info to be dangerous. As a sales and mkt person that has a lot of potential for "true geektacular" - courtney benson

courtney great, glad you got something from it - Pat Strader

its pretty exciting stuff - Pat Strader

if you want a couple sheets of the moostickers, just let me know...i printed 900 for blogpotomac, but they didnt arrive in time to take them.... - Pat Strader

if only eventful etc crawled for hcalendar... - Pat Strader

Thanks Jauder! - Rick Bucich

The question I have about microformats is "how do you know you need them?" I know when I need to use DIV's or when I need some JavaScript but I'm still not along to the place where I know all the places I need microformats. - Robert Scoble

I'd rather see HTML change to be separated into a set of semantic elements and organizational elements, then CSS adapt to work better with that separation, way more than I'd like to see microformats try and do this same thing through hackery of CSS. - xero

robert i simply started wrapping any address, or review or event as a part of workflow - Pat Strader

I'd love to come and explain microformats for your audience, Robert - Kevin Marks

There's the 4th Birthday party this Friday - http://microformats.org/wiki... maybe Robert could do a video or 2 from there. - Debi Jones

Kevin, I see you're attending the July 18 event http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event... anything sooner? - Rick Bucich

the point of microformats is to give common ways for people to express things on the web that are used a lot, like addresses, reviews, tags and events. They do this using standard HTML. - Kevin Marks

that would be a great event - Pat Strader

Robert, we can chat about them at the SFAMA meetin on thursday - I think it fits into the panel's cope too. - Kevin Marks

Kevin: yeah, let's do that. I'd love to take advantage of your free time before you get totally crazy busy with some hot startup. - Robert Scoble

I loved melody piece on su.pr. And I've been using it all day - Zachary Adam Cohen

How would someone find out who has adopted the format? i.e. review sites using hReview. I know of Yelp but also notice that Insiderpages is being pulled into Google & Yahoo Local. - Rick Bucich

rick thats a great question, i have tried to find out who might be looking for them myself - Pat Strader

Rick, Pat use the Operator plugin. - Jauder Ho

yes, i have it use it quite a bit, i was trying to find places that might be going out and looking for them, not necessarily implementing - Pat Strader

i use both operator and tails plugins are there others? - Pat Strader

It doesn't appear that Operator supports hReview, am I correct? I'll check out Tails - Rick Bucich

What is something simple I can do to incorporate microformats into my blog? - Robert Scoble

start using them? - Tyler Gillies

This guy seems to be exceptionally authoritative on microformats or "microstructures" as he calls them: @luebken on Twitter and his blog, http://leubken.com, has a great post on "Overview of microstructures in use". - Mike Elliott

the simplest thing to do, Robert, would be to make your contact info in the sidebar into an hCard; you're already mostly supporting hAtom from your template - Kevin Marks

Is this like one of those CGI voting scripts on a website? A widget? You could make it be reviews of each of your videos, Robert. Why put up contact info to the masses? Reviews makes sense. - Prokofy Neva

I have not looked much at hReview but this shows a hcard mockup (do view source) http://bit.ly/1vfp3i You should be able to use this right away after substituting your info. I did notice that Google does extract this into their excerpt for search results. - Jauder Ho

another example site is linkedin using hresume http://steve.ganz.name/blog... and there is a wordpress plugin http://wordpress.org/extend... (not sure what platform is needed) - Mike Chelen

A List Apart blog just posted a good article about RDFa, which you could use for semantic markup when a microformat isn't necessary or doesn't exist: http://www.alistapart.com/article... - Chip Ramsey

The future of microformats: the direction I think it should take: https://friendfeed.com/search... Ultra-minimal; minimum tag clutter. - Sean McBride

Robert, Kevin, please hook up with @marksilva before Thursday to discuss SFAMA panel. @scobleizer @kevinmarks - Mark Evans

andy brudtkuhl to andy's feed, building43

Amazon Acquires Snaptell: Expands Mobile / iPhone Capabilities - http://seekingalpha.com/article...

June 23 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Antonella Stellacci, zsafwan , Debi Jones and 2 other people liked this

Earlier this week, Amazon (AMZN) acquired the startup Snaptell. Snaptell had a free app for the iPhone and Android that allowed you to take a picture of a random product, have it identified and then price shopped online. - andy brudtkuhl from Bookmarklet

Here's a live video interview that I captured with Snaptell at CTIA Las Vegas in April 2008 with a demo of Snaptell. Sorry the audio isn't great. http://www.flixwagon.com/watch... - Debi Jones

Debi Jones to Debi's feed, building43

Sprxmobile.com launches Layar - mobile augmented reality browser with brands. Launched June 16, 2009. http://www.youtube.com/watch...

June 22 - Comment - Like - Share

Layar also provides for the creation of layers not sponsored by brands. - Debi Jones

Debi Jones to Debi's feed, building43

Web 2010 is on the go. IBM combines web services with the Android platform taking 1st steps in augmented reality at Wimbleton. http://www.youtube.com/watch...

June 21 - Comment - Like - Share

Roshan Ramachandran, Jason Cronkhite, Nicholas James and 10 other people liked this

It's worth noting that many of the information resources are updated in real or near real time. It's beneficial to know at the moment if there are traffic or transportation issues or the depth of queues. Is a restaurant currently serving lunch or dinner, or is it closed? From an earlier question about the necessity for real time information these are a few more of the examples that exist. - Debi Jones

This is amazing cool. In a decade people will be using this technology in their own neighborhoods. Scratch that - 5 years! - Rob La Gesse

Actually there's a company in San Francisco that has been deploying similar applications in Japan since 2005. The company is called GeoVector. Handsets in Japan are always ahead of the ROW (rest of the world) and had compasses and GPS in 2005 which are critical technologies to these applications. Watch the demos. http://www.geovector.com/ - Debi Jones

Debi Jones to Debi's feed, building43

Ninth Circuit rules on text message SPAM in case against Simon & Schuster in mobile marketing campaign for Stephen King novel, The Cell. The court labels message as a text "call" which limits marketing activity based upon Telephone Consumer Protection Act. The definition of "Express Consent" to receive msgs was at issue....

June 22 - Comment - Like - Share

The court's ruling is here. http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datasto... - Debi Jones

Robert Scoble

If @dahowlett wants to argue my (or his) credibility it will have to be here on friendfeed so we can do it in real time without pissing off our readers.

June 20 - Comment - Like - Share

Roshan Ramachandran, Steph Love, Michael Mooney and 11 other people liked this

He says he's credible because he has a sponsor who pays him. Hey, I do too. http://www.building43.com is paid for by Rackspace. - Robert Scoble

62 more comments

So what about it Dennis? He's here: http://twitter.com/dahowlett - Robert Scoble

Money and/or sponsorship does not make one credible. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Rob: exactly right. And I'm not going to do a Skype interview with him. I will only fight him here on friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

im credible and i don't have money OR sponsorship ;) - Tyler Gillies

Dennis says that he's willing to take me on, but so far has been chicken. He already has a friendfeed account here: http://friendfeed.com/dahowle... - Robert Scoble

Credibility is to some extent gained through approval by others. Commercial approval is not the easiest kind to get. So to a certain extent I agree. However, having sponsorship for your blog does not make you uber-credible. - Ian Holton

Ian: usually sponsorship happens because you have an audience, not because you are credible. - Robert Scoble

"A Fool and his money are soon parted" and I have seen plenty of writers who have foolish rich friends. That does not make them more credible. You gain authority from your readers. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

But isn't an audience large enough to make you worthy of sponsorship not a sign that a certain minimum amount of people think you are credible (in what you are saying/doing)? - Ian Holton

Why is fighting so important to you? And telling who's wrong? Exchange opinions, learn from eachother. Don't fight so much! - erwin blom

agree with erwin. no idea why this has to be debated at all. - geoff hines

I have to agree with Erwin. You always take "attacks" to a new personal level, Robert. - Ian Holton

I have no sponsorship, my credibility is based on my reason, judgement, and writing. I had been under the impression that sponsorship implied something else (Robert said it, audience/reach) - Mark Essel

I'll get you at recess! - BryanSchuetz

Credibility doesn't share a corollary relationship with volume or ferocity. They're unrelated. - Ken Camp

What started this fight? - David Lloyd

Erwin: I'm passionate and some things are worth fighting out. - Robert Scoble

And anyway I didn't pick this fight. Dennis did. - Robert Scoble

what about the readers who are already pissed off? - Zachary Adam Cohen

Zachary: they can come here and say why. - Robert Scoble

That's true, he fired the first shot thats for sure, unprovocked too according to twitter history - David Lloyd

i dont know how you replied to that so quickly, im not pissed off by you, go get em tiger...i was pissed off before - Zachary Adam Cohen

An audience !(=>) [does not imply] credibility - even Michael Jackson will tell you this. However an audience does imply marketing ability which is what makes the $$$$s. - Shaf

I'm passionate as well, and i'm a Scoble fan. But i don't think making things black and white so often gets us anywhere. - erwin blom

Zachary: friendfeed is real time. - Robert Scoble

Hope it's a good argument (one you can mutually learn from). I had one today with a good friend about an absolute reference frame/guiding laws of nature vs. local relative patterns. - Mark Essel

erwin: black and white all the time doesn't work, but sometimes we must adopt this template of absolutes - Zachary Adam Cohen

Erwin: I'm actually a lot more into the grays of life than you might know. But saying things clearly and definitively often gets a conversation going that I learn from. - Robert Scoble

Robert - You'd me more credible and accurate if you said FriendFeed is "very near realtime". I'd concur with that. - Ken Camp

Exactly right Erwin, also I think that this is purely a stab at eachothers ego. Nothing more than that. - Wim Mulder

Wim: yes, and I want to engage with Dennis. The fact that he isn't showing up here says volumes. - Robert Scoble

I just had the pleasure of 3hours of rational debate, discussion and arguments today. Reductio ad absurdum is an effective tactic one friend often uses, which generates polarized comparisons. I try to balance the debate into "regions of stability". We're rarely at the extreme boundaries we often use in our discussions. - Mark Essel

what was the debate? representing a fair point of view on a sponsor's product? That could be interesting :D - Mark Essel

I'm not sure the fact him not showing here says volumes other than to say if you look at his history he doesn't use FF for anything but a feed dump. That's what I see when I look at his profile. I would never expect to see him engage here over this. I think you know that too Robert. Go for neutral ground, but you calling him into your turf isn't something he's going to go for, and that... more... - Ken Camp

Robert it doesn't say volumes - he's being sensible. I like what Dennis writes and tbh doing 'this' is a non brainer. - Shaf

Mark: no debate. He just said that I wasn't credible. I called him out and asked him to come here and explain himself. - Robert Scoble

Ok, this whole issue just took a turn into schoolyard for me. I'm off this thread. Lost all interest. - Ken Camp

Ken: it was schoolyard from the very beginning! :-) - Robert Scoble

Me too - I'm out ... $15 wasted just like pay per view. - Shaf

WAIT ! Robert can you ask your sponsor to refund me the $15 ? ;) - Shaf

Shaf: heheh! That's what friendfeed needs: pay-for-participation rooms! That way Dennis and I could start a fight and get some money like professional boxers! - Robert Scoble

I was hoping for some good debate, my xbox360 just got 3 red rings and after some powering on and off , and looking up the problem it'll cost me $99 to fix. Somehow I thought this was covered (its 4 years old). I sent an @Microsoft_Xbox asking about it - Mark Essel

Robert - Pay per tweet ;) Take care gentlemen - Goodnight - Shaf

@scobleizer I enjoy all your posts and they seem very credible to me - p_poarch

Dennis recommended a conversation via Skype video. How about using tinychat? You guys can debate the credibility issues and others can join in chat. - Debi Jones

speaking on which. anyone know software that you can record video of two people? - Tyler Gillies

Debi: no. friendfeed is perfectly fine for having a conversation. - Robert Scoble

Robert: it's like Ken says. Why not choose neutral ground if the conversation is important? No one would enjoy having their credibility challenged, but not sure if the conversation environment is the point you want to engage. - Debi Jones

Debi: neutral ground? Yeah, like calling me out on Twitter is neutral. :-) - Robert Scoble

I do not want to have this argument in private or somewhere else. Thanks. - Robert Scoble

stick to your guns robert...dont let the shift the debate onto where to debate or method in anyway, that is a distraction.... - Zachary Adam Cohen

I think that credibility means one thing to an accountant and something very different to a community of people fanatical about the internet. Dennis admits that his problem is that he can't wrap his head around what you do. Robert, your ability to embrace ambiguity is part of what makes you so good at what you do. - Matthew Schrock

who is this guy? he has sent me msgs in the past too. seems like a bit of a troll. - sean percival

I'd pay $15 to see you box Dennis. It wouldn't make either one of you more credible though. Of course, I don't always agree with you, but you always seem credible to me. - RobinDotNet

He's tweeting that you guys are good friends, but you're pushing folks to FF when they don't want to do that. Can't people just not go to FF if they don't want to? Are you twisting anybody's arm? - RobinDotNet

sean: he is a troll and RobinDotNet Dennis is a hypocrite. He pushes people to his web site all the time. - Robert Scoble

interesting that he thinks you're friends; do you think you're friends? - RobinDotNet

Every single day, and I mean EVERY day I get a follower or two like this http://twitter.com/MoneyMakers who link to posts on their blogs such as "How twitter can make you $2000 a month" and "Get 40000 followers in 30 days!". At least I don't get this crap on FF :D - David Lloyd

RobinDotNet: no, I wouldn't call us friends. Especially after the way he's been acting online and he refuses to come over here and explain himself. - Robert Scoble

Of course they are "social media experts" etc ;) - David Lloyd

He doesn't seem like much of a friend. If I make an accusation, I'm either going to apologize or explain myself. It's a stand-up thing to do. - RobinDotNet

Children... take a deep breath, walk outside and smell some goddam roses. Life is really too short for this kind of BS - Ben Kepes

If you have to argue your credibility... well, there's everyones answer... - Ian Wright

Leo Laporte

Cell Phone Execs Will Face Questions On Text Messaging Price Hikes | NEWS JUNKIE - http://mynewsjunkie.com/2009...

June 16 from delicious - Comment - Like - Share

Michael Hansel, Scott Hubble, LPH™ and his dog P™ and 43 other people liked this

Those cell phone companies will have a lot of explaining to do Tuesday when they testify at a U.S. Senate committee hearing on rising text messaging costs. Representatives from Verizon, AT&T, and Cricket will be faced with questions on why those short 160 character SMS messages are costing the consumer too much. - Leo Laporte

26 more comments

Leo, I believe it was you who reported that based on AT&T's text messaging fee SMS messages cost consumers somewhere around $1500 per MB of data? - jcunwired

The painful pricing structure of these companies is why I don't really use my cell phone for anything more than the occasional call. I'm not prepared to risk the assorted extra charges that come with SMS, or web use. - Eoghann Irving

any guesses on what they say will be the reason for these prices ? - Kashif Khan

http://mobilejones.com/2007... My article on SMS charging hit the front page of digg in 2007. The high cost of SMS has been a known in the mobile industry for a long time. I remember being shocked that many of my web friends hadn't thought of the costs per MB, - Debi Jones

Not only do they charge absurd prices, but most don't even include texting in the unlimited data plans. I pay 30 dollars a month for iPhone data and pay 15 more on top of that for 1500 texts. THat is outrageous. - Grant

Interesting that they are questioning Cricket at the same time as the larger carriers. We have Cricket here and they offer unlimited calling including unlimited text messaging for only $40/month. Maybe they want to know why Cricket can offer reasonable pricing while the larger, national carriers continue to gouge their customers. - Joshua Blevins

They should also be grilled about the cost of data plans. - Kashif Khan

I don't use text messaging, so I don't have it on my iPhone. That saves me $20 every month. A small victory! - Paul Ring

I don't have texting either, but got stuck paying 60 cents for two porn spam messages! - Sandy Curry

I could be wrong, but I thought the reason SMS was so expensive was because they want to discourage people from using it, since texts can saturate the network. You can't really compare it to email, because SMS works like a phone call and doesn't use the data connection. - Daniel Sims

SMS does use the control channel, but that's it. It doesn't really saturate the network since it doesn't create a connection like an actual phone call. It's a 1-way message and it's not a guaranteed receipt either. Oh, and those that actually look at the cost per MB are incorrect since it's that channel itself isn't used in the same fashion as data connections. SMS uses control channel... more... - Ben Hwang

You have to pay to receive SMS? Which Dodo brain though of that one? There would be a revolt in Europe if they tried that! - David Wright from twhirl

New Zealand has two networks, one gives 500/1000 texts 'free' for $10. the other gives free weekends if you spend a certain amount during the week. - Robbie Steele

actually there are that kind of things in Europe. Some service providers (ringtones for example) may charge your phone bill by sending SMS. You can for exmple have a monthly subscription for ringtones and they are charging you by sending two SMSes. This is ofcourse problematic, as the consumer can not easily deny from paying and in a case of dispute the operator stands in between. - Jani Kenttälä from IM

True, but those are subscription services, not "normal" SMS messages. - David Wright from twhirl

@Ben: If the SMS uses the control channel, which is in use and always active anyway, why should there even be a charge for SMS? The network infrastructure is already there, so really the extra data does not make an impact. - Nils Sandin

On an additional point, as mentioned above, regular incoming SMS are not charged in Europe (unless roaming abroad), and outbound SMS can cost as little as 0.09€ (13 cents) on a pre-paid plan (w/o commitment for 500 or 1000 messages you might never use). - Nils Sandin

It's called Capitalism. No government intervention necessary. If the consumer doesn't like it, they should stop paying for it. In other words, move to a company that doesn't charge so much or stop using the service. The market will then be forced to change. - Chad McCoskey

Chad, because of that system we also have the most primitive cell phone networks and system in the 1st world. Unfettered capitalism isn't always what's best. - Chrimmus Tad from fftogo

I think that's part of the problem -- they've all raised their prices at once, so there's no alternative provider. I used to have a sensible option in the US which didn't charge me for incoming messages, but that's been long gone. - John Flinchbaugh from IM

I mentioned the Pre but I think I got away with it! - Kevin J Hatton

Chad, since the government sells the spectrum licences, they can put some restrictions. Do you remember that http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2007...? - Jérôme Flipo

Tad, so what? We forget that cell service and a whole host of other things we take for granted now are luxuries not necessities. I love my iPhone but if I felt the prices weren't acceptable or if another option was better either a phone or pricing plan, I'd go there. My point is that it's all well and good to complain, but protest with what companies value most: your money. - Chad McCoskey

Chad, can you list necessities, beyond air, water, food and security? The issues at stake are the four characteristics of the market http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... and the government role in preventing tacit collusion. Also, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.... - Jérôme Flipo

Jerome, you're right about the necessities which is exactly my point. We don't all "deserve" high quality cell service for free and in the case of a non necessity, if all companies offering that product charge the same amount then maybe the populace should decide if they should really spend their money on it. If you don't like the cost of text messages then don't use the service and if the majority of people does that companies will either stop the service or lower prices. - Chad McCoskey

I have an iPhone with no text plan because they are obscenely priced. I'm not happy about $25/mo for unlimited data but I'm doing my best to get my money's worth. I'll just call or send an email rather than pay $.50 for a text - Daniel J. Pritchett from IM

Daniel, thank you for proving my point. More people should follow suit if they don't like the cost. By the way, I have text on my phone and make sure I don't go over my limit. - Chad McCoskey

Debi Jones

Just received a letter from Amazon that North Carolina is moving a bill through the General Assembly that will tax Internet purchases including those from Amazon. The letter was inform me that if the law is passed Amazon will terminate affiliate agreements immediately. More info here:...

June 17 - Comment - Like - Share

http://www.performancemarketin... - Debi Jones

Other states with proposed legislation to tax Internet purchases: Connecticut, Tennessee, Hawaii, Rhode Island, and Wisconsin. - Debi Jones

Karoli

@kylesellers not gonna cry a river for pharma. They waste billions on Viagra ads and then bloat prices for US sales. Boo frickin' hoo.

June 16 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Karoli, here's some great work being done to insure Congress represents their constituents and not their contributors. http://action.change-congress.org/t... - Debi Jones

7 more comments

I agree. Change Congress is a great start. But unfortunately, health care reform is at the mercy of the BlueDogs, pharma and insurance co-owned congresscritters. - Karoli

Change Congress can claim one success already. http://change-congress.org/nelson... Better to give them some advertising dollars than to keep throwing cash at Obama. - Debi Jones

I've already maxed contributions to them. Haven't given dems or obama anything this year. Mostly because I would rather support candidates who kick the Blue Dogs' asses out of the DC area. - Karoli

Change Congress is taking on health care lobby contributions to Congress directly. - Debi Jones

:) Lessig is doing great work. - Karoli

Read the links. The campaign is to hold Congress to a public option despite millions from insurance or other health lobby. It's a good approach. - Debi Jones

A public option is still viable. Single payer appears to be dead. I'm not surprised; single payer would implode the likes of Rush and Beck. - Karoli

I don't know that a public option would remain viable as the insurance lobby is throwing millions at those like the 2 referenced in those links who have made public statements against a public option. Lessig has a workable approach to do local advertising in these small markets to target constituents. Direct mail worked, but they need promotion to draw in more money for advertising. - Debi Jones

Karoli

RT @VBrown: WOW! Hearing that #iranelection has been blocked in Iran. Others saying switch 2 #Iranians, #Tehran, and #Iran9

June 16 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Careful Karoli you are repeating disinformation. Iran is NOT blocking #iranelection. The 2 legit tags are #iranelection and #gr88. The disinformation is reduce visibility of actual hashtags. - Debi Jones

#gr88 = green revolution 1388 which is the Persian calendar year. - Debi Jones

Thanks, Debi, I'll pull that back, correct. - Karoli

Michael Markman

Why does GOP talk about rationing healthcare as something that the public plan will create? Private insurance rations healthcare now.

June 16 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Web Pixie, Debi Jones and Christian Burns liked this

My healthcare is rationed by how much I can pay. - Christian Burns

This is their dusted off and reusable strategy that worked in early 1990s. I think they'll find a different response this time 'round. - Debi Jones

Jim Long

Sure, people on TWITTER want here an now. MILLIONS still want accuracy and editorial context IMHO #140conf

June 16 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Christian Burns , Jared Smith, Yolanda and Eoghann Irving liked this

Agreed, there's a role for something or someone to filter the live reports into an accurate overview of what's going on. - Eoghann Irving

Jim: Where do we go for accuracy? We didn't get that from MSM in run up to Iraq War nor did we get it in the buildup to the Financial Crisis. This weekend much of MSM was asleep and reporting spokesperson or state TV versions of events. So where do you propose we go for accuracy? - Debi Jones

Jay Cuthrell to Jay's feed, US National Broadband Plan

AT&T’s network problems aren’t just in big cities anymore - http://technologizer.com/2009...

June 10 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Having driven from Raleigh, NC to Charleston, SC and Myrtle Beach, SC this week.... yep. Phantom voicemail, missed calls, 3G (what?) and Edge issues galore. - Jay Cuthrell from Bookmarklet

The iPhone is responsible for 33% of worldwide smartphone data traffic and 50% in the US. I can't imagine a single carrier who wouldn't want to get that device on their network. - Debi Jones

Wonder if network issues affected my phone's access along I-5 in California late Friday? Roadtripping from the East Bay to L.A., I stopped for gas in Kettleman City. I had bars, but almost no Web access, on my Nokia N82. - George Kelly

Jay Cuthrell to Jay's feed, US National Broadband Plan

Rural Americans *shock* _want_ broadband (via @ruralbroadband) - http://www.usatoday.com/tech...

June 7 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Michael R. Bernstein liked this

amazing! insane? possible? maybe! - Jay Cuthrell from Bookmarklet

What is broadband? - Debi Jones

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