Trish R talked about this awhile ago. Her son got extra credit for bringing batteries to the teacher. There was quite a heated discussion about it. I'll see if I can pull up the post. - Rochelle

Here: http://beta.friendfeed.com/trishro... - Rochelle

exactly, and when I watch 40 - 60% of my local tax dollars going to my schools. Our company services and supports a lot of local K12 schools, and it is appalling at the lack of funding they often receive - and sometimes I am dismayed to admit where they spend what funding they get. It really can be a difficult world to live in though, and in the end the children suffer as the result. - Ken Stewart | ChangeForge

I got extra credit for bringing in a box of tissues. We all brought in tissues and used them throughout the year. - Aaron Hood

That's not an acceptable budget cut, and I am not sure, but if it is a public school, can't them not supplying toilet paper in bathrooms be considered a violation of local health ordinances? - April Russo

1000's of teachers are being laid off here in AZ and we have one of the worst public school systems in the country. Sigh. - iTad

This outrageous stuff is happening all over the place and still people don't want to put more money into the school system. They talk about how the system is failing our kids, yet it's not really the system that's failing our kids, it's us that are failing to properly fund the system thus failing our kids. - Scoble, Alex Scoble

It's all a matter of priorities. It was a LOT more important to go on a pointless war in Iraq than fund our schools. - iTad

These are a few of the reasons I pulled my 15yo daughter out of the California Public School system--she takes courses online. Budget cuts are being felt there as well. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

This is unacceptable and makes me so angry. How can the Lions pay 41 million to their draft pick for a team with NO hope and have the kids in their fucking state bring toilet paper to school. I am so pissed off and something must be done. - Mona Nomura from fftogo

How are you able to comment? Please do not pick a fight with me right now. I am extremely angry and will get nasty but if you stay cordial, I will too. That said, I have not figured it out yet. But the first priority is awareness. The more people thatvare aware, the more collective minds that actually CARE about this topic will come together. And as corny as this sounds, together, we can think of effective solutions within our powers. - Mona Nomura from fftogo

The solution lies outside of the current paradigm. I don't think it's a solvable problem with all things remaining (more or less) constant. I picture education 10-15 years from now being so different that it'll be difficult for us to imagine "the way it was." - iTad

My son is still going to public school. It's not terrible, really, though there are plenty of opportunities for improvement. I think the solution will be technological in nature. - iTad

I think the only paradigm shift that needs to take place is that people need to pull their heads out of their asses, their hands out of their pockets and get serious about the education of our kids. Until that happens, no change to the system will improve things. Education isn't going to get any cheaper than it is now. People need to pony up. Period. - Scoble, Alex Scoble

Ethan, they are first hand accounts from parents and former students. Rochelle was kind enough to link another discussion, and I can link you to the person who Tweeted me as soon as I'm back in front of my computer. Thanks for taking a notice and interest. :) - Mona Nomura from fftogo

I disagree Alex. Education should be a lot less expensive and, at the same time, be of much higher quality. It's time to start thinking outside the box. - iTad

Home schooling, private schooling and what not are not going to get it done for the vast majority of kids. The only system that's built to serve the vast majority of kids is the public school system. All efforts to move kids to the other forms of schooling only serve to undermine the public school system and thus deprive the vast majority from the education they need in order to survive in the modern day. - Scoble, Alex Scoble

The system is fundamentally broken--throwing money at it will not repair it. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

I agree with that statement Alex, but I also agree with Rob that the current system is fundamentally broken. The current system is designed to create obedient factory workers. That's NOT what we need now. I think we''ll end up with something like pseudo-A.I. guided education along with a hybrid of current public schools and home-schooling. - iTad

Tad- blame McCain - anna sauce

Tad...the vast expense of teaching kids is based on how much it costs to pay teachers. This isn't going down without fundamentally destroying the quality of education our kids receive. You can't distance teach elementary school kids as they don't have the skills nor the attention span to sit there and follow a program without significant management and you can't increase class size without also similarly significantly decreasing the education of the schools. - Scoble, Alex Scoble

Anna, the blame extends way past McCain or even the Republicans. - iTad

I wonder about this in California, too. I went to one of the top notch schools- and it was public. Sister and I just talked about this tonight, that property taxes = quality of school, so the more affluent places, the more funding they get. It's sad, and should probably be one of the first changes to the system. I stand behind public schools, though, it's a right every child shoudl have. - anna sauce

Matthew that eliminates the education of millions of children. - iTad

Matthew, you do that and you'll end up with a generation of ignorant idiots even worse than what we are getting now. Most parents cannot and/or will not invest in their children's educations and we cannot afford to leave it up to them. - Scoble, Alex Scoble

In SF parents have little control, as their kids can be sent to other schools in the city. They have to go private or chartered to have control. - anna sauce

Automate most of the education that children receive. - iTad

You can't automate it, Tad. Not until you get to high school. - Scoble, Alex Scoble

Matthew - If you get rid of public school, then how are the people who rely upon the free education going to get educated? Millions of parents can barely feed their family, much less also pay extra for a private school. A poor education is still better than no education. - xero

Tad, Alex: It's hard to automate it even in high school. "Ender's Game" we are not. - xero

Alex - the savings just from automating most of high school should help to increase the quality of elementary children. And I have no doubt that their education can be largely automated at some point as well. - iTad

One of my sisters did volunteer work in Milwaukee private schools, and some of the parochial schools can be truly awful. It's not a public vs. private issue, I think, but a priority problem- as Mona points out- often times between parents/state and making it a priority. Take $$ away from a stadium project and put it into schools- tax sports tickets, etc. - anna sauce

Kids in private schools with complicated learning disabilities have better options for assistance in the public domain. Friends of mine with kids in the public schools are complaining about all the monies directed to sports programs and not things such as music/art/drama. Curtail the sports frenzy and work on the learning skills. - Janet:#TeamMonique

We focus on the greed and corruption in the banking industry and incompitance of the Big 3--the public school systems have the same problems. They problems are systemic--they only manifest themselves in the classroom. The problems go much deeper than the kids and teachers. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

There is not a simple solution to fixing all of the public schools. Each school and district has its own set of unique problems. And rarely do those problems have a single cause. A common thread with poor schools is generally lack of money, though, throwing money at some schools will actually make their problems worse. - xero

If you threw lots of money at the poorer schools in Mississippi the money would mostly go into corruption and graft. Exactly what has happened with a lot of the casino money. - iTad

You can't automate it, Tad. Sorry. As someone who lives with an elementary school teacher, I'm pretty intimate with the issues that she faces with kids on a daily basis. They just don't have the skills to sit there and learn on their own, plus until you can get them to read at a decent level, they wouldn't even be able to learn on their own anyhow. Plus there's all of the socializing that kids will not get. So we'll end up with kids who are proficient in whatever they had fun learning and total dumbshits - Scoble, Alex Scoble

on everything else, not to mention how long it would take an corporation to teach them personal skills. - Scoble, Alex Scoble

I disagree Alex, but I'm not sure we have a common enough frame of reference for me to explain why. I honestly believe we'll have mature Artificial Intelligence in less than 30 years - perhaps much sooner. - iTad

School unions are corrupt? Generalize much? Sorry but that statement doesn't exactly put much in your credibility bank account. - Scoble, Alex Scoble

I've seen the social results of home schooling. It rarely comes out socially functional, but then again, it's all up to the parents. - xero

Matthew, if school is largely automated, there'll be plenty of money to keep public schools open for music education, social learning, etc without being a large tax burden. - iTad

Go to any public school--there are plenty of socially disfunctional kids--homeschooling is NOT to blame for that. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

Tad: With it all automated and costs down, that extra money will just get sent elsewhere. The money for the school is there, it's been there, but nobody will actually give it to the schools. Reducing their costs is basically going to reduce their perceived needs. Most systems already have the insanely stupid "spend it or lose it" system, and the projection of the next year comes from what was spent in the previous year. Funding projection is a joke in most schools. They need a lesson in forecasting. - xero

What I'm learning from this thread, or at least the idea that's making the most sense to me, is that if we were to sit in a room and hash out the best school system for the next generation, we would probably end up going for a federal system much like libraries. Leaving it up to regions/states/cities just isn't working. - anna sauce

What is most outrageous is that the people responsible for caring for our youth are some of the most under paid individuals out there. Money isn't always best option either. Until we get our priorities right we need to ensure we provide our kids with what the community can not. - Brian Bufalo

Because we're all too busy talking about Twitter. - Steven Perez

Matthew - It pisses me off and my wife is just starting her career. I looked at the salary sheets for some of the surrounding counties, it was disappointing to see her highest potential was still under my first starting salary. - xero

Ok. I'm home and still mad but no longer fuming. I'm going to read all the comments you guys left. Thanks for all the feedback and interest in this topic. It sickens me that people don't give a crap - or at least the ones around me, so it gives me hope, when I see you guys all care enough to comment. - Mona Nomura

My kids go to charter school - they're put on a budget and have to keep attendance to keep their charter, so they come up with more creative solutions. More money is not the solution - forcing people to think is the solution. My kids learn from Youtube and Google Earth at school. My 8-yr old daughter is learning Chinese. They eat much healthier food than the public schools. All this is with less money than many schools, not more, and it's mostly parent-run. - Jesse Stay

The parent-run board actually has the right to fire the principal and other school execs if necessary. - Jesse Stay

That's great for areas where charter schools are an option. There are many areas, especially urban, where charter schools are rare and in complete lottery form. There are also areas, families, and parents in income brackets where they do not have the time to be as involved, since they are working two-three jobs just to put money on the table. Which brings another issue: its ridiculous that in America people can work every day of their lives and still never reach above the poverty line. Oh Glen, DON'T GET ME STARTED ON CALIFORNIA'S BUDGET PACK!!!!! UGH!!!!!! - Mona Nomura

This is why I cannot be in politics. I get too emotional. - Mona Nomura

Mona - you're going to blow a gasket. - iTad

I know. I can feel my blood pressure going up. Can you believe I considered education policy for a while? My first major at Cal was Urban Studies/Cultural Anthro with a minor in education reform. If I graduated and finished up at the Kennedy School like I was supposed to, I would be DEAD by now. Not even kidding. - Mona Nomura

Because it goes through his desk before it reaches the people. - Mona Nomura

Mona, most places are lottery - that's how my kids got in. That's the problem. The Charter school model needs to be the norm, not the exception for these school systems to work. Teachers and school boards need to be forced to think, and parents need to be given back the power to control their child's education. Schools should all be on a budget, with the right people hired to make that budget work, and parents should have the right to choose what school their child goes to. - Jesse Stay

If the school fails to use its budget well and loses attendance, it goes out of business and kids will be able to go to other, better schools, or other new charters will pop up. - Jesse Stay

Glen, I should point out that my kids school is currently in one of the most gang-infested parts of the city. It belongs to no school district though so all charter schools get equal money (if I understand right). The parents need to be involved though for a charter school to work. In the "parents don't care" districts that's a tough problem to reconcile - the most successful schools needs parents who care. I think we need to be sending those parents to school, personally. - Jesse Stay

So who's going to pay for the parents' hours they need to take off work? What if they aren't allowed time off? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, Jesse, but a lot of these issues are interdependent. - Mona Nomura

Mona, our kids car-pool. That's one solution. There is still a free lunch program at the school required by the state for less wealthy children. The school still has to work with working parents - many of the parents at my kids' school work too. I'm sure if there were enough need school buses would be provided for more needy children (at the neglect of other programs most likely), or perhaps if the school is in an area with more poverty priority could be given to the children living close by. - Jesse Stay

In Houston where I grew up they used to bus children in the less-wealthy areas out to the more wealthy schools. - Jesse Stay

It is unacceptable. Angers and sickens me to no end. I was talking with friends about re-thinking democracy, even socialism. In theory, democracy is phenomenal, in actuality our country forgetting the roots and history of this great country results to awful outcomes. America is so amazing and I love it so much (as screwed up as it is) I wish I knew the answers to fix it all, Rutger and it frustrates me so much that I'm so helpless :( And Jesse - thank you for sharing. I learned a lot tonight. - Mona Nomura

Mona, you're welcome. This is also an area I'm very passionate about. My wife and I moved from Virginia, which had excellent school systems, to Utah, which wasn't rated near as high, and were quite frustrated out here trying to figure out the best option for our kids. For parents who truly care and want to sacrifice for their children Charter schools were the only solution we could find that was affordable for us. - Jesse Stay

This is a controversial topic, but I'd also like to add that I think the Teachers Unions are also hurting our schools. Teachers Unions were built for the teachers, not the kids, and a lot of money gets wasted on poor teachers because of them. IMO we need to get rid of the Teachers Unions and force our teachers and school employees to earn their salaries. I hope I don't offend anyone by sharing my opinion on that. - Jesse Stay

I am so happy your kids got in and it's heartwarming to see you so involved and willing to educate those that don't understand. It's people like you, Jesse, that initiates change. :) And I agree with Teachers Unions hurting our schools. - Mona Nomura

Mona, I do agree there is a huge issue though - what do we do with the kids that don't have parents who are as involved? As a society we can't neglect them either. I hope our government officials are working to find ways to get them the same education my children are getting. We should be fighting to get government officials who will. - Jesse Stay

Rutger, we're the oldest democracy, but Democracy, of itself, is still very young and we have a lot to learn about. Hopefully we can all learn together. - Jesse Stay

What's even more frustrating is this: "According to a 2005 report from the OECD, the United States is tied for first place with Switzerland when it comes to annual spending per student on its public schools, with each of those two countries spending more than $11,000 (in U.S. currency)" via WIKIPEDIA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... And to add to Jesse and Rutger's comments, one of the greatest things about Social Networks is that it brings people from all over the country and world together, to discuss important issues as these. I really love the Internet :) - Mona Nomura

Nomenclature check: The US is not a democracy. It is a constitutionally limited democratic republic. That is, it's governing structure is setup and limited by a constitution. The details of that structure is a cross-balancing system of govt branches, which is controlled by a mostly-democratically elected set of self-sufficient representatives, the jobs of which are to work in the best interest of their constituents for their particular branch, while following the guidelines set forth in the constitution. - xero

IIRC, average spending per student is heavily weighted by spending on special needs kids. It may be that other countries don't spend so much on their special needs kids, hence a higher median and lower average cost. - Andrew C (✓)

xero, I think we're all aware of that. Someone always has to point that out though. :-) - Jesse Stay

My dad is a program coordinator for Birmingham City Schools in AL. If you want to hear about administrative and staffer corruption, disheartened and useless teachers, and children and parents who could not care whatsoever, then check out Bham. I grew up listening to the stories of the insanity that goes on in that place. - xero

Jesse/Mona, then don't call it a democracy, call it a republic. It is much closer to a republic than a democracy. Sadly though, just as an uneducated democracy easily turns into mob rule, an uneducated and opaque republic quickly turns into an oligarchy, which quickly corrupts. But once you're already on that path (as we are) then someone educated needs to actually point that out to the masses AND start action to correct it. (Just to bring the aside back to the topic at hand.) - xero

xero, it is also a democracy - let's not get all technical here. It is just as much a democracy as it is a republic - that is what checks and balances allow. - Jesse Stay

Do you have the option to personally vote on every piece of federal legislation? If not, it's a republic, plain and simple. It is only a democracy if every person affected by legislation is able to vote for or against it. It is a republic whose representatives are voted in by a democratic process, but that does not make it a democracy. Rather, you can be a republic with democratic tendencies, but you can not be a democracy with republic tendencies. - xero

With that in mind, perhaps we can suggest some improvements to the school systems? I know there are tons of problems, but if I had to pick one out to fix, I would take the administration, from superintendent down to principal, though mostly at the school level. A good principal should run a school just like a corporation. Goals should be set, improvement should be a constant, need to check out the competition, need to find or make better staff, need to reward higher merit, etc. The bar needs to be set high. - xero

xero there are many types of democracy - you are assuming there is just one form - Jesse Stay

Yes, there are, and a representative democracy is one of them, however, the US is not one. It is a constitutional republic, for it to be a the former then the rights of the people could not be checked by any system, such as the law, or by the appointment of representatives by someone other than the people (like the president and senate appoint the justices). - xero

This is a debate that is important, and happens everywhere. Here's the local San Francisco perspective about California schools on the SF K Files blog: http://thesfkfiles.blogspot.com/2009... - Hutch Carpenter

Hutch- thanks so much for that link, it's incredible. - anna sauce