Hao, this is awesome! Remember how people were saying in the FF Feedback room, how they'd like services to be linked, but not important the feeds? THIS is the temp. solution. WOW. Are you going to implement a way to filter individually?
- Mona Nomura
It doesn't actually do that, Mona. If your account is in Friendfeed, it goes into your feed. Hao Chen is merely making it easier to get the URLs from FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
Looks great. I guess I'll have to look into Social Graph API a bit deeper. It's so much faster than FF API for network data.
- Benedikt Koehler
Oops, I meant UN-LINK services so it'll stop pulling into their feed BUT still enable their friends to link to their respective accounts. Thank you for catching that, Mark.
- Mona Nomura
It should be possible to use the Social Graph API to find services that are not imported into Friendfeed as well as friends' services not on FF. It's a bit tricky because it requires a lot of separate requests. Right now, it's only using the SG API to find your subscriptions across the services you import on FF.
- Hao Chen
Thanks, just don't look at the source code. LOL
- Hao Chen
Hao, this is awesome, this is going to save me so much time! Thanks!
- Shey
Very cool. However, my tiny brain is not grokking " Remove Connections Already Subscribed To". Please to explain.
- Laura Norvig
Laura, it's not very accurate, but it's supposed to remove links to people's accounts on the other networks you already subscribe to. For example, if I already subscribe to Bob on Twitter, it might remove the link to Bob's Twitter page in the big list.
- Hao Chen
very kool Hao....Im finding my fellow FF on other services!
- (jeff)isageek
Hao, this is very cool; I just used it to great success friending last.fm users.
- Pete D
Hao, since I am the lone step child, any idea why it would not work for me. I typed in my ID, nothing happens, no spinning wheel indicating it is thinking. Just looks at my sad face....LOL.
- R. Ferguson
Hoa - This is great. Can you add Blip.fm?
- Russellreno
this is so awesome Hao - great job!!!!!!!! look out for random add notifications from me :)
- Morgan
How does that work?I type in some user name in it,nothing happen...
- Steve Chou
Steve, what browser are you using? Any JavaScript errors?
- Hao Chen
Glad to hear you guys are finding uses for it. @Russell Right now, the list of services it displays is the list of services being imported by people's FF accounts, and since Blip.fm isn't a supported service yet, I can't add that in easily. I'll think about how to use the Social Graph API more effectively to do those things though.
- Hao Chen
This is just excellent, not wholly accurate like you say but brilliant. Now all I need is to add more contacts on FF ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Never seems to work for my own username.
- Andrew Trinh
Thanks, guys. :) Andrew, ah, looks like Social Graph doesn't see your FF subscriptions for some reason. http://socialgraph-resources.g... I'll re-code this using the Friendfeed API to get your subscriptions later.
- Hao Chen
Very cool Hao! I like seeing which less-common services people actually use. My list (and top 25 services) is http://friendfeed.com/e... Does your system count me twice for YouTube because I have 2 YouTubes? (seems like it might, from the Blog counts).
- Mitchell Tsai
It's not working for me either when I input my username.
- Steve Lowe
Ditto steplow. Looks like it should be awesome but sadly it's drawing a blank for my username. :(
- David Young
Please stop using ISP email (Gmail is free!). I just discovered that one relatively common ISP seems to be blocking some of our emails because they include the url http://groups.google.com/group... (with that removed, the message gets delivered).
Spam filtering is too complex to be left up to random perl scripts or whatever these people use. Several months back, a different ISP was blocking our email because the from address included the word "friend" (as in "friendfeed.com").
- Paul Buchheit
i've noted a similar trend as well. most people on isp email (ahem, comcast & earthlink) have a setting that kickbacks anything that isn't coming from an approved list...and the default msg manages to come off as both retarded and pretentious in a "i need to stock shelves of canned food in preparation for y2k" kind of way. i think earthlink's notice even suggests you to CALL the person you're trying to contact so they can add you to their approved list. very annoying.
- James Miao
Sadly, for most people, using email that isn't provided by their ISP is like using a phone that wasn't provided by the phone company before Carterphone. You're playing with dangerous wiring, and 'who do you call if the bell doesn't ring?'.
- Robin Barooah
Big deal, Gmail is currently blocking yahoo-inc.com addresses. It is a hard problem and no one does it perfectly.
- Sam Pullara
Sam, it's very unlikely that they are blocking all of yahoo-inc.com. Perhaps you did a "Report Spam" on that address previously? (which could cause blocking for your account) Regardless, the fact that nobody is perfect does not excuse those that are awful.
- Paul Buchheit
Maybe it wasn't obvious, but just because an ISP is blocking some email messages with that URL in them it doesn't imply that the spam filter that it has is awful. It probably has just gotten a lot of spam with google groups urls in them.
- Sam Pullara
it is interesting how many people stick with their ISP email service. I guess it is hard to change your email identity especially if you have used the one you already have for long.
- Davide D'Incau
I was just going to post a question about best practices re: startups sending email. I am sending email directly from a server with SPF, domainkeys and DKIM all setup correctly. Yahoo still seems to want to put our emails into spam folders for some users. Any pointers on what to avoid (the emails I am sending are very short and contain only some text, a link and a unsubscribe link)/how to debug?
- Arvind Sundararajan
As far as I can tell, there aren't any great options. Some startups that don't have to send much mail just route it through Google. I think there are also some equivalent paid services, but I don't know how good any of them are. As you recall, even Gmail had trouble getting past broken spam filters sometimes.
- Paul Buchheit
I haven't used ISP mail for the best part of ten years. I've changed ISP three times in that time, so it would have been a pain in the ass and expense to keep telling everyone and reprinting cards etc. It's worth paying for a domain for that reason alone, or, nowadays using reliable spam-free email like Gmail. (I gave up on Hotmail and Yahoo way back).
- Ian May
gmail works great for me. I do not see any spam on it. Only stuff I am expecting to find there.
- Davide D'Incau
For our 20-person company, we've been using Google Apps + IMAP very happily for over a year.
- Jeremy Dunck
Even people in my own relatively tech-savvy family still use @aol and @earthlink addresses. It's not that they don't want to use Gmail or similar upgrade, its that they don't want to give up an address that they've had for 10, 15, 20 years. Weird when compared to a few generations later (kids today), when email addresses are treated as disposable identities. However, comcast and earthlink should just outsource email to someone more ... modern.
- DeWitt Clinton
I find it strange that people use ISP e-mail because they want to keep their e-mail address. My parents have changed their e-mail address at least once when they changed providers. Also, their ISP only offers POP3 access. No IMAP. Of course, of the free e-mail out there, only gmail offers IMAP (that I know of).
- Robert Felty
The only reason I haven't completely chucked my AOL mail is because I want to keep those screen names for IMing since I've had them for forever and a day. Unfortunately some family members only know me by those e-mail addys, so it's been a slow uphill battle to get them to start switching to either my hotmail or gmail accounts. I'll win one of these days...
- Hookuh Tinypants
Oh I don't use the AOL app for anything anymore. I'm all web-based anyway, and I use Digsby for chat. But the problem is that if I cancel my AOL account, they will cancel my screen names. Which means I will have to get all new screen names because they don't release canceled names back into the wild for like six months.
- Hookuh Tinypants
Not sure what you are saying -- that everybody should only use Gmail? There is a whole range of email providers out there -- free, not free, self managed, outsourced with varying degrees of spam management. Gmail is better than most, but still screws up.
- Brian Sullivan
Back when we got our service from Verizon, they not only included a Verizon email address, but also bundled in MSN, including an msn.com (hotmail) account. I haven't checked the former address in years, but use the latter for my IRL personal communications.
- Ontario Emperor
I son't see any problem with a FFer promoting a given web service in their posts. Happens all the time in fact. Gmail is free and ISP email usually sucks. If you don't like gmail there are other options and you're free to post about them. And if Paul's talking about the same ISP that I have, they pull this kind of crap all the time.
- Vicarbott
Point taken, but the tangential question is why do you use a google group as your main vehicle for user support?
- Laura Norvig
Laura, I actually just replaced the groups link with a link to the friendfeed-feedback room. My point however is that I should not have to worry about a groups.google.com url or some other random detail causing email to get blocked by some dumb filter. I noticed another ISP that blocks our daily-summary emails whenever they include amazon.com links (from someone's wishlist). FriendFeed is full of links, so these naive filters will always cause problems for our users.
- Paul Buchheit
As an aside, I'm not quite sure that FF is yet profiting from our data. Google certainly is because of the ads, but FF isn't quite there yet...
- FFing Enigma
V, I would bet that Gmail protects your privacy better than your ISP does. That said, I agree that there should be multiple competent email providers. I wish that Gmail would open up their sender reputation data, since that's the most powerful and reliable bit in the spam filtering equation. However, even if they do that, most ISPs will still suck because they don't know better, don't care, and their customers don't realize what's going on.
- Paul Buchheit
Are there really ISPs who don't give end users control over whether to use the ISPs spam filters or not? I have ATT, which uses Yahoo Mail, and I can choose whether to use Yahoo filters or get the raw feed (and I do both, on different accounts). I do wish Gmail would let me POP/IMAP my spam folder, if I so chose, some of my Gmail accounts are obscure enough to never get spam and I don't want to miss anything.
- Tinfoil 2.0
"I would bet that Gmail protects your privacy better than your ISP does". Having worked at an ISP all I have to say is "here here!". People think Gmail is evil because they "read" your email to put some ads on it but don't care if your ISP sends your email through something like an IronPort to detect spam.
- Benjamin Golub
The irony is that those same heavyhanded span filters can't be particularly effective otherwise span would have been rendered cost ineffective by now.
- Robin Barooah
I said the same to mum in email tonight... she uses aol she sent pictures of her and dad on holinday in texas...they never showed..crap... i set up a gmail account for her..hopefully she will use it. :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Every time Verizon/Yahoo gets a twich, my Mozilla Thunderbird goes down and cannot access the servers. But my Gmail still works. So I would like to go with GMail, completely, but, would I still be using the Verizon/Yahoo servers? Is GMail available through its own servers? Not completely savvy about this. Chris
- Chris Conner
Well, in defense of that ISP... Even Google doesn't use Google Groups, for some of its products because of the spam presumably.
- Space Cowboy
"Yes, it's me, abusing my baby pictures quotient on FriendFeed again. But in case you wanted to get a visual on Sarah's size, here's one item for comparison - the iPod Touch. Also included, Matthew, sleeping next to the iPod Touch, TiVo remote and Blackberry. It's better than using a ruler!"
- Louis Gray
one day these kids are going to say, 'dad used us as props for his gadgets!'...and then there will be blood! lol
- .LAG liked that
@.LAG, then I'll remind them how when we parked in what I thought was acceptable shade outside Babies R Us today, they both went nuts, and I had to extract them from their car seats and walk into the store (using the exit), with the pair held tight to my chest, to commiserate with their mother. I'm sure I was quite the sight. "Hey! Look at that guy! He's in over his head!" (fingers pointing)
- Louis Gray
Hey! Someone should say you - this is really unhealthy!! : (
- Erhan Erdoğan
@Louis - You definitely look in over your head. However, I was that way with only one. Now my children are 21 and 18 and I still remain in over my head. ; )
- Rex Hammock
This made Maryam crack up and say "that's cute!"
- Robert Scoble
@Rex, I look in over my head? Definitely? Where's the proof on that? I disagree. :-)
- Louis Gray
Maybe good idea to get the RF away from the newborns? Just sayin'. Amazing scale comparison pics though Louis. Thanks for sharing. Now get those radio wave emitting devices away from the generation that will hopefully save us all :)
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
I don't believe you all - Robert, Louis, Maryam, all likes, comments - i urgently need a judge for this photos! : ) Your tech love is get out of control!!
- Erhan Erdoğan
now let's see the Touch duke it out with the Blackberry
- Paulo Elias
from twhirl
I'm so going to do this one day when I have one. haha
- Daynah
@Erhan and Brian, 1) They're not sleeping with the gadgets in their cribs (yet) and 2) I am not worried about that nonsense. I might as well unplug the microwave and TV while I'm at it, no?
- Louis Gray
We always left a computer keyboard in our kids cribs as a toy -- they loved it.
- Oldengrey (Jay)
The important thing to remember is that if Louis were forced to choose between his children and his gadgets,,,well, I'm sure the kids would find a good home. (JUST KIDDING!)
- Ontario Emperor
Yeah, I know I know Louis. I'm just waiting for the time I go to the Dr. to get the "news" after having gone through life carrying 3+ mobiles around in my pocket. It's safe to carry 3+ phones + EVDO + Cradlepoint wifi in my pockets right?
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
lmao I'm so reporting you for this. Too hilarious
- Corvida
OMG! that's priceless! I <3 it! Put the device on vibrate and see what happens! I bet it would sooth any crankiness. Can you say iTunes visualizer? Better than Baby Einstein. Makes us AND them drool into relaxation. My son has gumdrop iMac in his bedroom specifically for that reason (glorified nightlight). Hey! We have to do what we have to do, right? Why not have some fun with it? Hellz ya!
- Melissa Davis
from twhirl
You know Louis, most parents use a wall and a pencil to show height and growth, you choose electronic equipment, what comes next? comparisons to the wii and ps3? then a macbook, then macbook pro, then dell blade server, where will it end?!!?!?
- Allen Stern
Oh what beautiful little souls! I'm sure they are very precious to you :-).
- Heather Colman
Total weirdness - the cuteness overload causes the pics to show for me even when S3 is down! It might be just my cache, ofcourse, but I like the first theory better :)
- Yuvi
I'll take the electronics when the kids are all grown up. It won't matter to me that the stuff is decades old.
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
Ok, from one tech geek to another, that has to be the most cute thing I've ever seen. =)
- David Cook
It's February 21, 2009. I'm in the middle of a music search on FriendFeed and found these pictures from July 19, 2008. How time flies...
- Ontario Emperor
Wow, where'd you dredge this up, Haggis?
- Kevin L
Just showed this to Matthew, and he says, "That's Braden!"
- Louis Gray
No he does, but I think it's also time you get some sl... Sleep is a waste of time for the unproductive. I don't think you've been unproductive lately get some sleep.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
I'm looking left. I'm looking right. Back. forth. back. forth. In the space between truth and fiction I am playing PONG.
- Micah
lol this is classic - and very brave of you to post ;)
- Chris Saad
Brave, indeed. The arched brow says everything. :)
- Mark Evans
is it much like turning up for an executive type job interview in t-shirt and jeans or in a suit. You're the same person underneath.
- Ian May
they might be both marketing avatars - left youtube vs right linkedin - lol
- Barbara R. S.
Obviously BOTH are reality. The right one is not a stunt model is it? ;-)
- Kristi Colvin
isn't it true that no one has one single face?
- Martha
from BuddyFeed
It was an honour to photograph you Louis, hopefully something for you to remember your London trip by
- John Cassidy
We all try to show our best side to the outside world, particularly when it's with regard to business. But is it really disingenuous to show a happy face any more than it would be to show a scowl? Neither represents you or the collective us 100% of the time. Does this mean we need a chart with all our moods on it to greet potential clients? :) I do like the arched brow. hehe
- Sheryl
Sorry to say this, Louis, but I will attempt to run away if I see someone coming to me bearing that smile you have on the second photo. I'd be like, "Darnit, here's another salesman wanting to pressure me into buying some thingamajig again..." No offense, Louis. But even for marketing, I really think you can do without the oh-so-friendly smile :-)
- Pandu ● IT Optimizer
from fftogo
I'm sorry, it's worse than I thought yesterday. I'm writing a blog about it. Be up shortly.
- Robert Scoble
The people who commented on my blog motivated me. In a bad way. Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
I don't have a google wave account, so can't tell ya.
- imabonehead
I'm letting you first adopters sink your time into it and waiting to hear what you think, before I spend any time with it. Not impressed with what I have heard so far though.
- Jeff P. Henderson
Wanna try it out, but I don't have an invite.
- Mike Dotta
I think it has a bit of a way to go, then I'll love it
- Nicholas Orr
Jeff: it's worth checking out. There is SOME value here, but not as much as the hype made us all believe.
- Robert Scoble
I think Google Wave isn't and won't be a great public communication tool. But it does have potential when it comes to collaboration within teams. In the long run it could give apps like Campfire a run for their money.
- Abhijeet Mukherjee
Would love an invitation. Seems a marketing scheme rther than soft launch
- Mark de Kock
Do we have to comment on GOOGLE WEAVE to call you an idiot? j/k
- RAD Moose
I don't love it - don't hate it - mostly I'm just puzzled as to what the best use cases are & with many of the UI quirks (and I would argue outright errors)
- Shannon Clark
No invite yet. Lots of blog posts saying how it's going to change the world...but then the next sentence is that they haven't tried it yet. ??
- Jesse P. Luna
I finally figured out what I hate about it, though. It's based on email and makes the email metaphor even worse (And slower!!!)
- Robert Scoble
I was in the Dev Sandbox version of Google Wave awhile ago, and it felt like I was in a really out of control AOL Chat room in the early 90s.
- RAD Moose
I don't think I like the public waves, nor do I like being added to so many (testing) waves injudiciously. It's okay for now because I understand everyone wants to test it out, but I would prefer 1-1 or 1-few conversations instead. The best test is to _use_ it for something other than talking about Wave itself :)
- Ahsan Ali
Mark: it's not incredibly stable yet - so it is very much a dev preview
- Nicholas Orr
Google wave is awesome if only I could get it! Even if I sent an invite request few hours after presentation months ago , still no invite received :(
- Dema
from iPhone
i have an invitation coming, from a friend. however, since it is not here yet, all i can say is their strategy for creating demand and buzz is absolutely stellar. must confess i am not immune, i feel that when my invite "trickles" through, i will indeed be quite fond of it. disclaimer: i have ADD & love noise. a lot.
- (dot)lizard kelly
I'm just starting to get it - but am online with it and very motivated to see if it's as awesome as the Googlers and community believe it is. It's fascinating to say the least, from what I've seen so far. I'm open to connect with others on the Preview via hollingt@googlewave.com
- Tony Hollingsworth
Would love to experiment, was too busy when invite op came by, what's the best way to get one now? Robert, how's the baby? Pics were sooo cute. :) Best, Dave
- dave_blogworld
For such a strong platform, they totally bombed their marketing campaigns. Until you actually play with it, it's nearly impossible to understand what the heck they've created.
- Sean Power
I love the ambition and the real time capabilities, but I am cautious in terms of its utility. It will take some getting used to.
- Louis Gray
Given the big boom in traffic I got the last two days, Scoble, I assume yours has been immense. Front page of Slashdot, on Der Spiegel, you led TM yesterday. Nice job.
- Louis Gray
Google Wave is mediocre, so it can't neither be loved or hated. Being mediocre is the worst thing you can do since it most often leave people indifferent.
- rick
I can see ways in which it can be beneficial. I just don't see a public social network expanding from it as a service. It will find it's place and loyal userbase. Just like FriendFeed did.
- Mark Krynsky
Though I haven't got invite yet but I still think when it is done and public for all of us there will be a lots of application which will make it more intuitive and useful. well for example twitter is not that much fun without its related apps. is it ?
- Sunny (The Geek Lord)
From the video I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. So far I can't find an invite, so as of right now I have to totally agree with you
- RickMeasham
from iPhone
I've try it, it seems cool but i need to test more the integration of external contents.
- Roberto Scano
Wondering if it will replace Basecamp and Skype. If I could put those together it would be a major step for our company. Outsourcing to India is all of a sudden very easy because of "Rosy" the translation tool That's powerful. Didn't get a first day invite but look forward to testing it for our organization.
- Brandon
Wave is baby at the moment and not even in beta version. So too early and useful for anything. While studying the protocol, it is indeed very intuitive
- Sunny (The Geek Lord)
Brandon, there are a couple tools to allow conferencing from inside Wave, a gadget from Ribbit and I think Twillio has a robot or something.
- James Williams
If Google is the only wave-server game in town, it'll be kinda lame. They already read all my email.
- Mason Lee
James: To combine the collaborator and the IM client would be big news for us. The promise is there but I still don't know if it's feasible. We will write all the todos and deadlines in BaseCamp and then move to Skype so it can be discussed. Doesn't seem very efficient and Wave seems to be the missing link.
- Brandon
By the way here in Sydney where Google Wave is being developed we've had a couple of user groups at the Googleplex in Pyrmont. See hashtag on Twitter #gwsug - a couple of tweeps worth following are @domesticmouse @pamelafox @purserj @harrisony - they're deep dive and I believe have written a "wave server
- Tony Hollingsworth
I think it's our job to celebrate innovation and shots at leaps forward. It shouldn't matter so much that a product doesn't live up to the hype right now. The original web browser sucked, PINE sucked, my Tandy TRS 80 sucked, my first iPhone was a mess. But now, my email is great, my web browser is fast and full-featured, and my laptop is small and more powerful than ever. The iphone is...
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- Morgan
I hate it because... I don't get an invite.
- Jackie
I think the product is too young to tell if it will be understood by user; and we as potential user need some time to understand the possibile uses of the product...I have an account, and I was in the dev sandbox, I think it's a briliant object... but still it's too young to tell.
- andrea
It is a definitely interesting product. However, I need more than 1 other person to have it to see if I really know how it will function.
- beachpig
It's dumb. I had it months ago. totally stupid. Then again, I don't like web based services. I only run desktop apps and despise Google stuff out of totaly control. so wave is dumb. email is better.
- Adam Jackson
Andrea: I agree. I think the robots and gadgets people have developped/will develop will help better define the user experience.
- James Williams
I will tell you what. This is a lot better than using Google Wave.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
for this purpose yes it is - the only way it would happen in Google Wave is if we were all in a group that you sent it to :)
- Nicholas Orr
Google Wave seems too bloated... but we will see
- joe
I think GW just takes some gettinmg used to and U need to make sure you kow what U use it for, it is NOT just another new kind of 'multimedia collaborative mail chat'.
- oliver gassner
guess one should differntiate between the WAVE technology (protocol) and what everybody now is moarning about - the collaborative mail chat thing they build to demonstrate its capabilities. Looking back it might have been a good idea to take a well known application to get the potential transportet. but now people are rating this application instead of the technology WAVE which has an enourmous potential! Its push´n´pull on steroids - and thats what makes a difference.
- psanner
Have not tried it, but real time collaboration looks promising. I wonder if it fits the way people are comfotable working
- Michele Costabile
Has potential for closed groups of people that all use wave. Further adoption depends on integration of legacy systems IMO.
- bishoph
Slower than email, and just, well slow. I'd imagine it'll speed up a bit when 3rd party federation servers take the load off a bit. Even with the quirks worked out, it'll still just as exiting as email. When blogs start integrating Wave THAT's when things will really get started. If they deliver what they're promising it's going to bring about a new generation of social networking.
- Philip
from iPhone
I manage the IT for 5 people. Our biggest problem is making sure everyone sees what they are suppose to see. The idea that I can install Google Wave on a local server, and only have those 5 people in that instance is exciting. The Google Wave you are all trying ISN'T Google Wave, it's a free-for-all test of it the protocols. If you expect it to be another social media site, then you...
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- Johnny
Patrik, agree. It's a very early version of a protocol. I think it's an amazing start and has lots of potential. I'd like to see groups added and some control of what waves you are receiving. But don't forget you can use the protocol and place it in your own site, so we can have a FF that looks like GWave. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
This is the Internet, Patrik. It's not about being right, just first...
- Johnny
I mentioned this on today's show. If I can run my own instance, I could almost create my own 'realtime BBS'. If I could create my own network with just a select group of people (say movie buffs or photographers) to exchange files and talk in real time... WOW. We all go one about social networks controlling what we say and owning our content. If I could set up my own sites, free from rules or ToS... WOW x2
- Johnny
No comment!! If anyone is generous to send me a free invite, pls send to victed at yahoo.com Thank you :-)
- victed
from iPhone
google wave looks exciting, however the slow release to developers is making other current real-time standards like PSHB and SUP more attractive for immediate building
- Mike Chelen
I have an invite and I've used it somewhat and I suppose I'm lucky I'm not a blogger who adds everyone on earth to every tool that I use in the hopes that I can parse all the noise, because I immediately saw the value in Wave. Rule number 1 of Wave: Don't talk about Wave. Seriously. The second you stop involving yourself in 20 concerrent waves about does Wave work? how is this looking?...
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- Chieze Okoye
Robert: "I will tell you what. This is a lot better than using Google Wave." is the epitome of what you're doing wrong. Honestly. Stop trying to use it like you use FriendFeed and start trying to use it like you use Google Docs and BAM, you'll see it.
- Chieze Okoye
Chieze: is there anything different or better compared with google docs?
- Mike Chelen
well, the thing that I like about it is that it combines the ease of collaboration of GDocs with the basic (sorta) paradigm of email/IM to improve the conversation part of creating a document. In GDocs, the communication with your colleagues/friends part of collaboration always took a back seat to the creation part. In Wave, I think it pretty successfully melds the two.
- Chieze Okoye
That said, neither facet in Wave independently (communication or creation) is as good as the two tools that exist now (Gmail and GDocs) but combined, it makes a lot of stuff easier. Specifically the kind of email threads centered around a central idea or final product (group report, list of who's bringing what to which party when, etc).
- Chieze Okoye
Love it. Even at this preview stage, I'd hoped for greater control over the Inbox - after all, it's supposed to be "email, invented today" - so, in its current form, it's not ready for mainstream/widestream adoption, but with a bit of polish from the usability experts, it's going to redefine how inter and intra organisation communication and collaboration takes place.
- Andrew Terry
And also, there's tremendous ability to keep Waves on topic (specific tools and actions available to remove thread-jackers and/or their non-sequiturs, add people as they become pertinent, remove people as they become unrelated, etc), instantly provides value to me over emails. There are definitely shortcomings and rough edges, no doubt, but the potential is quite clear when you know where to look.
- Chieze Okoye
Chieze: might address a few gdocs issues- that tracking revisions becomes difficult with many edits, and the lack of a realtime api. interesting, thanks
- Mike Chelen
Yeah, good point Mike, I hadn't even considered the API issue. As far as your first point, the revision part of Wave (playback mode) is already (to me) superior than the one in GDocs in terms of allowing me to follow all the changes that went into a document/Wave. With some more granularity and control (rollbacks, diffs between non-successive states, etc), it will be nigh perfect.
- Chieze Okoye
its not what i expected it to be, not from google, i guess they are mortal too.
- imran
for me it looks like groupware done right. Because it will really elevate in a corporate envirement when there is a office integration and you can make all you're office stuff in a colaborative way with all office products with all mayor plattforms and with people outside the intranet
- mosta
from AndFeed
there is a alternative server called pygowave where you can get a test account. It has not as much features bud you can run it yourself
- mosta
from AndFeed
Does the invite have to go to my gmail address? Or can I get one at M8R-v2hjnm@mailinator.com ?
- Justin Goldberg
can only tell that once my close friends join in...till now just experimenting. From the discussions that i saw till now, learning curve is pretty slack for G-Wave...all the new terms, bots, not to mention the inconsistent behaviour. But then its only a preview.. :)
- Roshan Ramachandran
Still waiting for my invite. It's been two days since someone invited me so they must be really backed up sending them out.
- Mike Doeff
from iPhone
with my limited use of WAVE...huge potential once more extension are built integrating with other Google services and offerings...using iGoogle page to consume information it would be nice to choose items and insert them into a WAVE for collaborative discussion / work related = GAnalytics extension would make it efficient to discuss metrics
- shayne catrett
FriendFeed != Google Wave - I think that's why you're frustrated. You're trying to solve a problem it wasn't meant to solve.
- Jesse Stay
In hindsight, I'd say the biggest problem with Wave is the way they decided to roll it out. If they'd simply given invites to groups of people who actually have a reason to try to work together and collaborate on real projects...rather than 100K unrelated developers/early adopters/pundits... I think much of the unwarranted backlash could've been avoided.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, but then Robert would be complaining of why he hasn't gotten a Wave invite yet ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Ken: I use more collaboration software than anyone I know, so I'm pretty qualified to try this stuff out.
- Robert Scoble
Andrew Terry: the problem is that the email metaphor is very unproductive. THAT is what I hate about Google Wave!!! Thank you for identifying it. There are far better metaphors for collaboration. Oh, and I get a lot more done in Google Docs than I ever will in Google Wave. Why? Because documents are a far more productive collaboration metaphor than email is.
- Robert Scoble
Shoot! I wish I had a Google Wave invite so I could try it out for myself! Hope it doesn't take too long to get one.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Jannifer: you already have FriendFeed. Wave will make you say "meh." Oh, OK, I can watch you type in real time and see just how bad a typist you really are.
- Robert Scoble
If someone can send me an invitation I'll tell you if I hate or love it ;) napolux@gmail.com
- Napolux
from twhirl
Robert: Yes, having FriendFeed does remove a lot of the wow factor of Wave. The real power is in the apps(gadgets and robots) which besides the featured gadgets is uncharted territory.
- James Williams
Robert: But don't we have to find a replacement for FriendFeed? FriendFeed is the best, but how long will it be here? :-(
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
I think Wave has a story for FF's threaded comments(IMHO it has a story for most of FF). What it needs is roles on a Wave so that I can allow ppl to reply to a blip that was created from one of my social media actions yet disallow them from deleting anything but their comments/replies. Also being able to have my "personal social media wave" be updated when I comment on someone else's "social media wave" would be nice so I that all parties can own that interaction.
- James Williams
Am I the only one who is SERIOUSLY concerned about the power Google has over our lives and businesses? Do we really want to keep giving them more and more access to what we do? I know they can compile it anyway but we can at least not make it so easy for them. I have had access to dozens of Google Analytics accounts. When Google is responsible for 50-70% of the traffic and 50-70% of the...
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- Internet Strategist
I have not used it, but I have a question - Should Google have waited little longer to polish it? because if people don't like it or they don't get invites they are likely to forget it ? If Google wave was from other company say xyzwave, people would not have created such a hoopla. To Non-geek public :What I am feeling is that majority of people don't have any idea what Google wave is and those people are likely to complain without fully understanding it.
- Ashish
It's the frame of a house that could be quite something.
- Aron Michalski
you're an idiot lol jk ;) however the whole debate has got me thinking about how i use twitter and i have decided to change my approach cheers! twitter(at)locspoc
- Loc
I'm certain I'd love Google Wave if: a) Google thought I was cool enough to have it; and b) I had it.
- Karoli
Robert: Have you tried wave out with any of the Building43/Rackspace folks on project work? A team of 3 or 4 people or so? Anything work related? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious how it's worked out for you when it's with a group tying to create something collaboratively vs general tire kicking stuff.
- Ken Sheppardson
I think Google Wave is going to be one of those Google products that never really takes off.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
I think I should at least try it before forming an opinion, and since nobody has saw fit to invite me, I can't do that at this time. I think your request for opinions is a bit to early for most of us.
- April
I'm still waiting for someone to invite me. But from what I'm seeing wave is more like a framework for people to build upon, not a user application itself.
- Sung W. Lim
@Sung - that's basically my conclusion as well (http://macrolinz.com/macroli...) and a few people seem to agree with me that the beta is really more about figuring out what the UI should actually be for that framework than just polishing the UI they currently have. Most people are too caught up in the hype though and don't know what they're looking at and so get disappointed pretty fast.
- Lindsay
+1 to Lindsay. Also, there will be many UIs but it will take time.
- Ahsan Ali
Robert, far from idiot, but you really surprised me Thursday (too fast & decisive), digesting the new post.
- Majento
I'm bullish. It seems like a lot of noise now, but when I saw the demo I saw how much more useful it could be for certain types of communication.
- Adam Loving
Option #3: Did you not get an invite to Google Wave?
- Michael Pinto
I would comment Robert but as I didn't get an invite to Google Wave, I can't.
- Technogran
Even if you use it for its intended purpose (collaboration among a pre-selected group of people), Google Wave still needs a lot of work.
- John E. Bredehoft
You should do a public wave with this question, and add the poll extension so people can vote and comment at the same time
- Jesse Stay
Tag me when you do though so I know you did it. :-)
- Jesse Stay
like, want to try more usual conversation stuff before being sure, but like the embedding, sharing, etc
- immaterial
Robert, thanks for opening the discussion. I really would like to read about more evidence and facts about the experience, rather than opinions without a foundation or whining about not having it.
- Luis Valdes
+1 Sung and Lindsay. Actually, this isn't even a beta, it's an alpha preview.
- Chieze Okoye
If you try to use wave as a replacement for facebook, twitter or friendfeed it's not going to work. Lots of people want it to be the revolution in social media when in fact its aimed more at private communication. as a way to communicate between a few friends it's fantastic although it still needs some work. Just remmeber its a replacement for email and im
- Jamie Vidamour
It's okay Robert and has potential especially for collabortory working together. However, whether or not the general public is going to drop e-mail and IM and use this instead is a moot point, as its not easy to 'suss out'
- Technogran
@Sandra I don't think the basic useage is any more complicated than email, people probably just need to have their hand held through a simple example conversation with one or two others & they'll be able to use it - public waves & advanced features can come later if needed
- immaterial
I could even travel if we guaranteed at least 10 people in a session I think. (no charge for travel on your part)
- Jesse Stay
Just something I'm considering - curious what the interest is, and if there's even a demand. I've done it for a few people I've consulted for, and I'm wondering if there's a more general interest in such training out there.
- Jesse Stay
Just a thought why don't you shoot a video for it and a presentation and then go viral with it...Then test the water for this idea , may be you can arrange a lecture in university shoot the lecture and get some recommendations
- Sunny (The Geek Lord)
Sunny, I'm also considering doing training DVDs on it as well. I think if there's interest with a little SEO and PPC advertising there wouldn't be much difficulty in finding those interested.
- Jesse Stay
DVD sounds good as well, take some live recommendation may be some local business you helped for free, that will boost you repo in industry as well
- Sunny (The Geek Lord)
if you did some web-based tutorials, etc i'd be interested
- Morgan
"It remains one of the great mysteries in sports, a 77-year-old crime that remains largely ignored and purposely unsolved. How does a team from the nation's capital, supported by a fan base of some of the nation's greatest thinkers, maintain a nickname that is the Native American equivalent to the N-word? Redskins? "It is the worst thing in the English language you can be called if you are a native person," said Suzan Shown Harjo, a Native American writer and public policy advocate who is the lead plaintiff in one of the most compelling lawsuits in sports history."
- Bill Sodeman
from Bookmarklet
Redskins fans - please READ the entire article with an open mind before you start posting.
- Bill Sodeman
"Of course, it is a formidable task, fighting both men (Goodell and Snyder). "We aren't just fighting Coke, we're fighting Pepsi backed by Coke," Harjo said. And, indeed, it is a fight they lose every day. "We are the invisible population," she said of the approximately 4 million Native Americans. "So racism against our population is also invisible.""
- Bill Sodeman
"Some say Redskins owner Daniel Snyder will never make it right because it will cost too much money in merchandising. But imagine the riches he would reap with new apparel. Some say NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell would never dare mess with one of the league's cornerstone franchises. But what better way to cement his growing legacy as a curator of equality and fairness?"
- Bill Sodeman
"The name can be changed. The name should be changed. There is not a bigger certifiable slur in sports. There is nothing even close. And don't even try to compare this to the Fighting Irish, OK? If you saw a Native American on the street, would you call that person a redskin? "It's like putting Aunt Jemima on a helmet," Harjo said."
- Bill Sodeman
So, how about a new name for the Redskins? Reds, Federals, Warriors, Generals, Monuments, Americans, Stars... bring 'em on, people.
- Bill Sodeman
I agree Bill. It should be changed. Entirely hypocritical and antithetical to everything our country is supposed to be about. The NFL has a great image, but they let things like this persist, they have a deplorable record of minority representation in the front office and head coaching positions. If the country wasn't so infatuated with the sport they'd see these problems much more clearly.
- Morgan
Is the arbiter of offensiveness the entire society, or the group being wronged? For if "Redskins" is offensive, then the same standard should be applied to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, the United Negro College Fund, and, yes, the Fighting Irish.
- John E. Bredehoft
I think the offensiveness depends in part on who is doing it. Black people using the word negro is a lot different than whites using it as a term of scorn.
- John (bird whisperer)
+1 Morgan. There's some irony here. There are many Federal appointees and employees in the Beltway are Redskin fans. By day, these folks help govern our country. On the weekend, they support a football team whose name is an anachronism.
- Bill Sodeman
John and John - you raise some interesting points. The word "redskin" is, according to some, one of the worst insults to a Native American. The word "negro" is an anachronism, and it is mildly offensive to some people. But there are no NFL teams that use an N-word as part of their name.
- Bill Sodeman
I think the arbiter are the precedents that have been set forth over the past 200 years of our country's evolution through law, the Constitution and understanding of civil and human rights. I don't think it's a question of who plays arbiter.
- Morgan
+1 Morgan - although Goodell has been missing an opportunity to play statesman and convince Snyder that changing the team's name will benefit society, the franchise and the NFL.
- Bill Sodeman
Bill, I see Goodell as a caretaker, not a revolutionary. I expect as much from him as I do Bud Selig. Little changed, little improved, all eyes and efforts on keeping the $$ continuing to flow in.
- Morgan
Morgan, good point, although Goodell has refined the NFL's international marketing. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bills, Raiders or Jaguars move to Canada, Mexico or London within the next 5 years - and Goodell wants the NFL to expand outside the mainland USA. (Honolulu almost got an expansion team in 1974, but the NFL chose Seattle.) Goodell hasn't faced a real test from the NFLPA yet. That's a-coming. The Redskins' inappropriate name offers Goodell another opportunity to leave his mark on the league.
- Bill Sodeman
that, and the cleveland indians name/logo
- chrisofspades
+1 Chris - I can't see why the Indians keep using Chief Wahoo.
- Bill Sodeman
great point Chris. there just really isn't any excuse any more, is there?
- Morgan
from IM
and I seem to remember a bunch of ncaa teams changing their mascots to be less offensive several years ago. why haven't the pro teams done the same?
- chrisofspades
+1 Chris... even though it's weird that FSU kept their name while Illinois lost their mascot.
- Bill Sodeman
Some people have too much time on their hands. Still, if there's support for changing a team name because it might potentially possibly perhaps cause one or two people to think "Hey!" once, even though the unbelievably massive majority of people (including probably most of those of whom it allegedly offends) won't give it more than a second's thought then I'd like to point out that I'm...
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- Mark H
My promise to all of you: if I ever have something difficult to tell you I WON'T do it in an interview with puppets. I will be man enough to just tell you the truth and take my lumps.
This is an age when the truth will come out anyway and trying to put lipstick on a pig just makes one look lame.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
LMAO!!! Robert just gained mad cool points for this...
- Rah-PM 2012
Aaron: who is that? I don't watch Sesame Street anymore.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
If a video like this DID exist... would there be a link maybe?
- Malcolm Bastien
Robert is this about Jason, his demeanor seemed somewhat nonchalant when he said it, almost an air of sarcasm.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Malcolm: I don't link to Sesame Street and Jimminy: I don't link to people who talk to puppets. It just seems so much like elementary school.
- Robert Scoble
Robert please do not scorn our fabric friends! (:
- earl wallace
from twhirl
Question from a neutral party... If you have a problem with this person, why not just tell them the truth about their style rather than making a post about it here?
- Johnny
Johnny: I live in public. I don't play games behind the scenes. I am what you see.
- Robert Scoble
For some reason I just assumed the punchline to the latest Jason/Shel puppet video was that after doing TechCrunch40, then TechCrunch50, next time around they're going to do TechCrunch60. They just want to wait to deliver that until "This is the last TC50" has had time to bounce around.
- Ken Sheppardson
Then again, you might be talking about something completely different and I'm just lost.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken that's what I was thinking that he's referring to, but they had one TC40 and 2 TC50's, but I heard there was an arguement between the two(speculation). So I guess we wait a year and see.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Robert: That's what makes you worth following and interacting with, Integrity is everything!
- Owen Greaves
What if you're faking it trying to make sure that everyone at DEMO talks about whether they believe Arrington and Calacanis are really breaking up.
- Dave Winer
Dave: It's still game playing, it may fly in Silicon Valley but the rest of the world won't get the joke.
- Owen Greaves
OMG! Scoble is RACIST against PUPPETS?!? What's next? Hating perfectly innocent TEDDY BEARS?!? *runs away, sobbing*
- Ladyepiphanybug
SOMETIME I FEEL AUDI 5000... SOMETIME JUST 4000.
- Dave Friedel
No we love you Veronica and your FF threads! ;)
- Fee501st
Audi 4000 - when you don't need to leave so fast...
- Thomas
Does this mean you'll stop calling me an "ass" all the time?
- Dave Friedel
"I'm Audi 4000" = "I need to leave, but I can stick around for a few more minutes..."
- Thomas
Audi 9000 ..... Its Over NINE THOUUUUUSAANNNNDDDDD! when you got to GTFO
- Fee501st
LOOK THIS AINT FUNNY. I'M GONNA AUDI 4995 ON YALL IF IT DONT STOP.
- Dave Friedel
Hmm...if I adapt it to my friends cars it just sounds like I'm hinting that we'd need to stay the night "I'm out ford ka" doesn't quite have the same ring to it. :/
- Amy
That means I'm almost outta here... just 5 short.
- Dave Friedel
LOL Fee. I want Veronica's graphic on a t-shirt!
- Paul Reynolds
Paul, Veronica needs to make that TZ daily tip
- Fee501st
I've been to Venice and back, and this thread is still going on? I'm going to block everyone on here and delete my account, too; I can't take any more.
- aldenoneil
I go to play bar trivia for a few hours and my poor Rebecca has quit forever. Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!!! I'm all A5 now.
- Dave Friedel
Rebecca left me a goodbye message on different post I made from earlier in the day. It said: "YOUR THE UGLIEST QUIT COPYING KANYE AND GET A LIFE I GOTTA POST YOUR UGLY FACE 231 TIMES."
- Dave Friedel
alden, you get TEXT MESSAGES every time someone posts in these threads? My god, I am so very very sorry!
- Veronica
I don't think that's the last we'll hear of rebecca coleman - someone counting out the posts and promising to do the same number of replies clearly has a wee bit of a vendetta going on
- Amy
Alden, time for that unlimited text plan or unhook your phone from it. Sometimes threads keepa goin'. Veronica isn't the only person who sometimes has hundreds of posts. Sarah Lane did it intentionally a just two weeks ago to see if her subscriber count were real people... they were.
- Dave Friedel
Amy, you may be on to something. Maybe she's just slipped away to regroup and plan. I'm picturing a weary rebecca coleman hovering over the keyboard wearing a much too big army helmet while whipsering, "Audi... for now..."
- Paul Reynolds
Light the corners of my mind... Misty water-colored memories... Of the way we were.
- Dave Friedel
Scattered pictures... Of the smiles we left behind... Smiles we gave to one another... For the way we were.
- Dave Friedel
Can it be that it was all so simple then? Or has time re-written every line? If we had the chance to do it all again... Tell me, would we? Could we?
- Dave Friedel
MEMORIES! May be beautiful and yet... What's too painful to remember... We simply choose to forget.
- Dave Friedel
So it's the laughter... We will remember... Whenever we remember... The way we were.....................
- Dave Friedel
2 years! Man Time goes fast! Shine on you crazy Diamond!
- Fee501st
Looking forward to tomorrow Louis !
- Geert CONARD
Louis, where in London are you going? Any time to browse around?
- Kol Tregaskes
Thomas: Hi - Just seen your message. Sadly not - but would have loved to gone along. Let me know how it goes for you and if I can help in any way.
- Jim Connolly
I hope you have at least a little time to be a tourist.
- DGentry
yes we're taking him out tonight for a little tour and dinner
- Thomas Power