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Scott Moskowitz › Comments
I can't seem to keep up in conversations on FF for many months butvwould like to revisit some bets made & settle some scores ...
VAL D. Zone and MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) liked this
Are we going to need popcorn and a soft drink?
- Brian Sullivan
Popcorn & softdrink? Nah wanna see those bold predictions made that amount to a taunt to meet at the bike racks at 3 PM after school. Brian, where is the willingness to pay? What about the bold concept that Twitter & FF compete? How bout what FF is now that FB paid 50 mil for this conversational style? Those who invited discourse & couldn't take the heat - WELCOME - time for...
more...
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
Pizza Volante (5/5) - http://www.yelp.com/biz...
"This is Italian "comfort food". Pizza well cooked & freshly sourced. Mix it up or order straight from the menu. Mozzarella in several versions. A cool, honest staff that can handle any whack requests.…"
- Scott Moskowitz
Apple store SF in middle of recession http://holykaw.com/apple-s...
Nir Ben Yona, Mac Sharp, Scott Moskowitz and 5 other people liked this
Not surprised after a year of poor customer service. Now about inventory mgt against repair & Apple-cough-Care
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
So basically the moral of the story is don't trust your content with anyone who doesn't have a large, mainstream user base. Don't be an early adopter because you'll get screwed 9 times out of 10. Gee, wonderful.
Jeff (the マクダジ of FF), Robert Kenney, Carlos Ayala and 32 other people liked this
YEAH. What made FF that Great? It's not the python (or even the C) code.
- directeur
Ah, but it really was the python and the c code. At least to the investors...which is the reason I bet that the creators started this project.
- Wizetux
Yeah Alex. Lesson learned.
- AJ Batac
directeur - its us.
- jcunwired
I'm not even sure it was the code. It looks like FB bought FF because of the people who created the code.
- Victor Ganata
for me it was how quickly I found like minded techs (and their friends)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Well put.
- Matthew DeVries
@Victor: that still leads back to the code, and their coding skills. For I highly doubt that FB wanted them to be marketing heads.
- Wizetux
I guess you can say that about cloud computing in general. Unless you host all your stuff, there's no guarantee anything will be there for years to come
- Rodfather
@Wizetux, that's the reason why I think FF as we know it is doomed. FB wanted the coding talent, not necessarily the code itself.
- Victor Ganata
Alex, talk that other Scoble into letting us crash in a section of the Warehouse 54 thing he's got going.
- Matthew DeVries
Alex, how were we screwed? Did we really gain so little? Did our conversations mean nothing to you? Did you learn nothing? Gain no smiles? Did FF not cheer you up sometimes? Even if you're "breaking up" with FF (or vice versa), it'd be like telling an ex-girlfriend, "You meant nothing to me. You were a waste of my time. I gave you everything, and you gave me nothing back." Do you really...
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- Adam Lasnik
Not to mention... what if FF has or will have spurred FB to be more open? To focus more thoughtfully on groups and sharing? Why would you begrudge that?
- Adam Lasnik
+1 RodFather... that's the key. people are uploading their content -- writings, photos, music -- and often that's the only copy. and it's not easy to get the stuff out. and it's scary to think what happens when inevitable storage failure occurs. like the guy said in Blade Runner: "all those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain." Social Media and cloud computing, each person needs to give these things careful consideration... continuously.
- .LAG liked that
Scary: when Facebook appropriates all the content you uploaded because it tends to do that in its ToS. "Oh, we may snip what you posted and use it in our ads without your permission or knowledge. Tee hee..."
- Archangel ωαřмaiden
Yup. It's not like money that is fungible. Personal content is your intellectual property. Keep it close or copyright it!
- laosan
You betcha! Their ToS against your rightful claim to bandwidth, time, effort & context to the "nexus" of your connections ... Oh, forgot, your hardware & access costs & the reality that your content is now repurposed without your control ... Sounds like users have a biz-model for themselves, no? & yet the boo-birds live in fantasy
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
Don't trust your data to the Cloud, lesson learned </stern old man voice>
- Robert Hafer
from iPhone
On the copyright issue, I am not a lawyer nor am I providing legal advice (expressly or implied), there is a clear open question whether the provders of these "services" own or instead need permission to trade in the currency of your "expressions" (Scott Beale - you out there? This is the question I asked you 18 mo ago - How do you feel now?)
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
Life isn't permanent. At any moment you could die. At that point will it all have been a waste? Not all of life is investing for the future. Some of it is living in the present.
- Daniel Dulitz
Sometimes even a large, mainstream user base isn't enough. Look at CompuServe, which AOL finally axed not too long ago.
- John E. Bredehoft
or to retain ownership and control of your content.
- Anthony Citrano
Is it wrong for me to feel a certain sense of betrayal? I didn't spend all my time here making connections, adding in interesting content and trying to get friends to join so that friendfeed would get acquired by Facebook.
Kim, sofarsoShawn, Mitchell Tsai and 168 other people liked this
I guess I should be glad that I made a bunch of new friends here and have learned a lot, but I just wish that the guys at friendfeed hadn't sold out to a company that doesn't really need what friendfeed has.
- Alex Scoble
I think betrayal is the word of the day around here.
- Akiva Moskovitz
EXACTLY!
- Kandeezie
Damn. Just heard.... Not sure what I think yet, but I worry about the openness of my info and postings.
- Mark Aitken
You guys amuse me.
- Cristo
Meh
- Andrew Roche
Whatever, Chris, I'm not amused.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
@Alex: I completely agree... and I haven't been and won't ever be on Facebook...
- Harold - Happy New Year
not wrong at all. I actually feel a little hurt.
- Jim in Real Time
Yeah, I think betrayed is a good description...
- Fa La La La Lindsay
But let's be honest, they built this to make money and survive. Gotta say I'm pleased it's shown to be worth something, and I'm guessing a significant something for FB to acquire them. Wonder if they were offered shares in FB as part of the deal?
- Mark Aitken
I guess we are all betrayed - in certain terms.. but FB should have done its market research before it got this property. Most of the USERS are not happy with FB type of connections or that property , so we left and looked for something better, it was FF. Now a new hunt will begin !
- Peter Dawson
I think a lot of us feel betrayed.
- Mathew™ one of a kind
What did you do it for then?
- George F. Snell III
I think it's too soon to feel betrayed. This interview made me feel a lot better about the whole deal: http://bit.ly/PReef
- Adam Reyher
from Alert Thingy
actually, you kinda did. if users like you didn't create so much value, Facebook wouldn't have acquired (notwithstanding feelings of betrayal).
- jeffscott
Yeah. That's excatly how I feel.
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Throws a sheep at Alex... Yeah, that wasn't much fun.
- Mark Davidson
from BuddyFeed
I share your sentiments in many ways. I have been proud to tell others who had no idea that FF existed how good it is (lets hope not was!) Lets hope they keep the spirit alive. By the way the minute I see any target 'phorm' style advertising, I am off to find a new up and coming. I wont run to Tumblr yet but I do have one foot in already, just in case.
- Kevin J Hatton
My immediate reaction was Facebook will push ads onto their users. I think FriendFeed could be seriously screwed up with live moving ads, so that's hopefully out of the picture from a purely usability view. Friendfeed is all about realtime web information. I then wonder how in that case will the monetise the relationship. My guess? Facebook will show live conversations and hopefully they will rip out the poor IM implementation in Facebook. The purchase may be nothing more sinister, I hope...
- Mark Aitken
Feeling a bit of betrayal, or unhappiness atleast. Have a Facebook account but rarely use it since it's a walled garden. Preferred Friendfeed for better technology, organization, but even more so it's openness!
- LonelyBob
Betrayed is a strong word, but I do feel a loss of ownership. And it's not like I really 'owned' the community, or the content I put into it. All the same, I contributed, and the more a person contributes to something, the more they feel a sense of entitlement (?) or ownership. Now it's as if I've had someone just pull a rug out from under me.
- cecily
I don't give 2 cents if that's wrong or not but I feel betrayed.
- vijay
Peter, I doubt FB gives a crap about FF users. FB wanted the talent that worked at FF, not the product.
- Jeff P. Henderson
I understand the sentiment, but this is the way of tech apps;.nothing stays the same for long. Feeling betrayed is not gonna change anything. Either you roll with the changes and try to force the positive, or you quit.
- Rene Wirtz
I agree with Cecily that betrayal is a strong word. I have always understood that FriendFeed is a free service, thus I can't claim control over it. Though, really, I wonder what s going to happen to my thousands of likes, comments, posts, etc.
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
:-) + :-(
- Majento
Completely concur with you Alex. Just goes to show maybe there is room for another platform...
- Arleen Boyd
As I said elsewhere, this was a talent + buzz acquisition. I sorta wish I could download my FF history and host it on my own server with SweetCron or something.
- Anthony Citrano
+1 Alex. EndFeed's the word... well, how about everybody grieves for 5 minutes, then gets the search for greener pastures under way. There was plenty to be improved about FriendFeed (been saying that since well before this announcement), so I just hope that someone else has the databasing/real-time wherewithal to build something like this, improved.
- Alex Schleber
Facebook doesn't even give a crap about their own users
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Do any of these sites give a crap though Alex? I understand what you are saying and how it makes you feel this way, but I realised a long time ago.. they are ALL businesses and the bottom line is NO they don't give a crap... because they are NOT depending on you to be ok..
- Rob Sellen :o)
friendfeed at least acted as though they gave a crap...at least until today. And there's nothing about being a business that says "crapping on your customers is OK". Business is business does not equal "screw your customers to make a buck".
- Alex Scoble
from IM
That and stunned. Lately I've been describing Friendfeed to the uninitiated as "a facebook without all the crap." Unfortunately, it looks like now it'll just be integrated into all the crap, if kept at all. That said, congratulations to the FF team - this is a big win for them and they deserve a lot of kudos. I look forward to the web apps they come up with in the future.
- Chris Rogers
"Is it wrong for me to feel a certain sense of betrayal?" - in an emotional sense, no. In a literal sense, yes, unless you can show me where FriendFeed made a commitment to you that they'd never change in a way that didn't fit your ideals for the service.
- Edward Coffey
i'm just hoping they will keep friendfeed separate and use it as a testing ground for new features.
- Edgar Rodríguez
They made a commitment to us when they built a service that wasn't called Facebook or Twitter. They made a commitment to us when they listened to our feedback and participated in our feeds. They made a commitment to us with their actions. A commitment that has been forever shattered with their deal with the internet equivalent of the devil.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Lindsey is right.. the thing is Alex... friendfeed is STILL here... ;o) YOU are still here...
- Rob Sellen :o)
Not for long, Rob. I give friendfeed a year tops.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
And forget about any improvements to the site. You know that the team will be much too busy trying to figure out what the next iteration of Facebook should look like.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Yep , definitely a sense of foreboding there ... "for the time being"
- Tom Horn
I can empathize with these sentiments, but Social Media is a set of tools--I appreciate the connections I make, but I'm not getting too emotionally worked-up about the tools changing.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
why? friendfeed.com is not going anywhere is it... no reason this place couldn't stay.. what if they LOCKED friendfeed users in now.. said.. we WILL reward you users for helping us, testing things for us etc... ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Rob...did you not notice who bought them? Facebook is known for doing dick for their users.
- Alex Scoble
Absolutely not Alex, I feel the same way. About 18 months' collection of content, great friends, an open community all gone. We now are marched into an atmosphere of censorship and walled relationships where users don't amount to a hill of beans. Really, really sucks.
- jcunwired
I'm sure FF is going away one way or another; there's no way that the combined company is going to keep developing full steam ahead on both products. Is it wrong to feel betrayed? I don't know. I don't personally feel betrayed, but I guess I'm not nearly as invested in FF as you and others are. I do think the end result may be something positive though; the ability to interact with the larger FB community on this level is something that could be truly wonderful. Then again, it might just end in tears...
- Tristan Seligmann
Especially when we consider that while they built the tools, we as a community are what made it great - both with our usage, our dedication and our regular feedback to make the site better. As I said before, its our fault FB even looked this way.
- jcunwired
"...internet equivalent of the devil" - ohh-kayy...*backs away slowly*
- Edward Coffey
betrayal isn't the word i feel. it's just business. i do agree with Anthony Citrano: I wonder if there's a way to pull all of my stuff out of FF and put it on my own machine. the year I've spent here, and the 2+ years on Twitter and FB, have been to the detrimiment of my own writing and content creation. The thing about all social media is they depend on users to fill their cyber-vessels with content, and then they make a living off of that...but it's pretty difficult for you to reclaim your "stuff" later.
- .LAG liked that
If Google's motto is "do no evil" then Facebook's motto is "do whatever we want to our customers, even when it makes absolutely no sense"...yeah, I'd consider that to be bordering on evil.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
I did Alex.. Facebook sucks in many ways, they treat users like shit... BUT does this deal mean the actual end of frienfeed.com < the domain etc... what about if this place is used like a testing place and kept here? who knows?
- Rob Sellen :o)
Ironic that! ToS & privacy & UCG & bandwidth & yet how much of that can be measured without actuarial measurements of packet flow? Not surprised based on much of the commentary the past 18 months. Attribution & authenticity matters.
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
Get this out of your system soon, before time runs out :) https://friendfeed.com/jcunwir...
- jcunwired
I think betrayal is appropriate - the FB community is NOT the FF community. Even if they make it better, or build something completely new, they will at some point shut down or gut what they have here.
- Jennifer Dittrich
As long as my stuff is still indexed, I don't really care. I love Facebook - and I love watching my real friends interact with my Internet friends. :)
- Mona Nomura
FWIW TXT is a bigger "content" biz than music, movies, games combined ... Yet this was not a predictable exit? Come on ... Said many times - what is a fair split for UCG & those that skim the packet flow?
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
Betrayal is definitely appropriate. So is apprehension and a little bit of anger.
- Mike Lewis
I feel the same way! I'm glad I'm not alone in that feeling. I have facebook I don't like it as much I like FF.
- Anna Lynn M.
I don't feel betrayed. I am, however, worried. And I know people will jump all over me and say that I am a fool for thinking that anything online can stay hidden. I wasn't naive enough to think I'd never be found, but I take steps to try to head that off. I don't use my full name, I don't link certain social sites to the blog, I don't let the blog be indexed, etc. And now, with one...
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- pea
I wouldn't worry about Facebook integrating your FriendFeed content into Facebook; that doesn't seem very likely to me.
- Tristan Seligmann
I feel you, Alex, and dread what is to come. But at the same time, seeing the reported terms of the deal, I don't think I would have turned it down either.
- Michael W. May
Alex - Think you'd have to agree (despite the fact we don't know everything) that they were smart. On the other hand, it's pretty obvious you're not alone in your sentiments (Funny - posted this to Robert's stream first by boo-boo :)
- Charlie Anzman
Alex, I feel your pain - but someone was going to acquire FriendFeed. It was inevitable. I'm just glad Facebook didn't buy Twitter.
- Bill Sodeman
I would rather that Google bought friendfeed and Facebook acquired Twitter. That would have been justice. This...this is a travesty.
- Alex Scoble
So would I alex..but it never happened..
- Rob Sellen :o)
Do you think Microsoft finish the job and eat Facebook?
- τorƍue
:(
- Martha
pea brings up an interesting point - pseudonymity is allowed by FF, disallowed by Facebook.And what of the FF groups?
- Richard pancakhaus Walker
τorƍue, or worse - Oracle buying out Facebook. hehe
- imabonehead
follow the money
- L Stephen Cleary
I love the way FriendFeed works, I hate Facebook interfaces. I wish there was another FriendFeed-like service to jump to.
- Amit Morson
I've never found Facebook to be intuitive, and I just enjoyed the manner of connecting here. Not sure what to feel now.
- Rick Cogley
I don't think it's wrong to feel betrayed. If Facebook bought Twitter, honestly I would feel the same way. I think they're going to shutter the store here, which is kind of sad, but we'll see....
- matt singley
My fears are threefold. I fear unavoidable unwanted integration. I fear the addition of the awful Facebook TOS, and I fear the loss of the community. That last one is the big one.
- Joe Pierce
Joe, perhaps FB may change their TOS...
- Bill Sodeman
my sense of betrayal is so strong that I made this --->- http://bit.ly/A0jWq
- vijay
It's all about the money, It's all about the dum dum didudumdum, I don't think it's funny...
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Bill, that is a nice thought but it is very doubtful. It would solve a lot of the problem I have with them if they did though. I seriously just don't want to lose the awesome community that has built up here. I mean without FF how would I keep up with Alex, its not like I live in the same town....oh wait /stalkermodeactivate!
- Joe Pierce
If you find any decent asylum, Ryo, please check a room for me, as well, please.
- Zackatoustra
from email
Guess we didn't read the Terms of Service carefully enough. :-(
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
I wish it was Twitter, Google, even Yahoo but not Facebook.
- Jacque
Yes, it stings like a ...
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Would you have not spent all the time here (etc...) if you were told that this is a start-up business and could get acquired at any time? Or could run out of money and shut down at any time? At least you had a chance to make the connections and share/consume that content...for free. Looks like you're better off than you were before you joined, no?
- Mohamed J
Yes, that's probably an accurate way to describe it, a sense of betrayal. Of course, we're not paying money to use this good service though we are paying time and good will, so it can be argued I suppose that FF did not betray us. I'm feeling upset myself, because I have never liked FB much. I did not want to be on there but got invited by old friends. I don't like the walled garden...
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- Rick Cogley
Rick: +1
- imabonehead
I am agree :(
- Janice
I especially feel crappy because I evangelized FF aggressively among my friends, most of whom are on Facebook.
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
To Alex Schleber: if you build it, we will come. Seriously, what Rick Cogley said too - I love that I can interact with almost anyone, not just people I'd interact with anyway and, in my case, have known forever. I love that it's like a small, really fun cocktail party with your friends, some of their friends, and a few strangers - as opposed to a convention (or, for me, a high school reunion!). Sad.
- Amy℠
It's not wrong to feel betrayed, but everyone has their price - sadly.
- David Jagger
The way the transaction was done is a betrayal of trust. Facebook can buy FF but not the trust of FF users. How much user pay for FF pay? Nothings? The time we invest in this application worth somethings unless you consider users of FF like shit.... Who care that crew of morons (FF users)? Just sell FF and move them like potatoes, right? Wrong! Trust can't be bought even with $50 Millions FriendFeed? Call it FailFriend. :S
- Claude LaFrenière
Yeah, Claude, it's definitely a trust thing.
- Rick Cogley
I've examined the emotional reaction of Alex (and others) to the announcement http://empoprise-bi.blogspot.com/2009...
- John E. Bredehoft
Armpit farts are the new cowbell! #GrowUpMona #fb
TheHenry, John Wang and Christopher Harley liked this
Haven't tried in years and now I can't pull one off. :(
- Christopher Harley
Agreed !!! 宜しく！
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
Facebook FriendFeed = Twitter Killer? http://riz.gd/9hwqy4
Michael Fidler liked this
Doubt it ... But that depends on how quickly ToS & privacy for UCG weighs in ...
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
I love the sticky note or whatever it's called. What is it and how do I get it? Thanks!
- Michael Fidler
Facebook shows its leadership. Combining public and private facing services is a big win. Facefeed is a winner.
Mohamed J, Darren Heydon, Denise Howell and 52 other people liked this
I agree with this 100%. This is one of the best purchases in a long time in silicon valley....good win
- Jason Stephens
What if they turn off FF.com though and integrate with FB :(
- Mark
Leo, I've respected you for years, but I see no evidence that anybody has a clue what they're doing with this merger. I like Facebook; I like Friendfeed, but I like Friendfeed more and I see way more potential for downside in this deal, as a user, than I do upside.
- Scott of Two Countries
still the begining, let see what wave will do
- abdellah
But will it become a combined service? I doubt it.
- jcunwired
Leo, the word 'Leadership' is exactly right. As Dave and Robert recently discussed, the most frustrating aspects of Twitter are the inconsistent business practices, seemingly arrogant attitude, and poor account management. I'm glad FriendBook stepped up.
- Dan Patterson
My worry is that the public facing service that made Friendfeed so great will disappear...
- Andrew Terry
Don't forget their also buying brains...there is some real talent at friendfeed
- Jason Stephens
I want only to carry on going to Friendfeed.com. Don't want it to be built into Facebook
- Mark
@jason remember tey qui Google, they will never stay at FB
- abdellah
If they keep FF.com then fine...if I have to go to FB to use FF forget it
- Randy Pollock
I am an instructor and just integrated Friendfeed into my classes for sharing, etc. The groups and privacy were the winner. I cannot see taking the same thing over to FB even if it had the functionality because of its rep. I liked having a professional social media, and a private one on FB for my friends. I am somewhat bummed.
- TonyatMATC
I want my data.
- Bwana ☠
I want me FF
- Randy Pollock
I want Bwana's data, too.
- Akiva Moskovitz
This could turn ugly if they close FF.com or make it a Facebook landing page
- Mark
proves that smart ideas have a market.
- michael sean wright
We go from an open community to a walled garden. This is supposed to be a good thing?
- jcunwired
First interview is up on techcrunch http://ff.im/6pQ88
- Mark
There is potential for a good Facefeed product, but I'm betting that FF will be no more a year from now.
- Jason Thompson
Only fact I have is Facebook's Terms of Service - Data export please
- Bwana ☠
I'm leery of this...
- Casey Petersen
GRRR!
- Josh Haley
Read Arrington's interview, he says they bought the people and not the service
- Mark
Me too. I thinking of writing a quick script to get everything out, quickly.
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Arrington believes the service won't survive long term as it is
- Mark
Why not keep FF up as a testing ground for new services/ideas before taking them to FB
- TonyatMATC
hmmph
- Mark
I like FF better. Probably will buy Facefeed stock if they ever go public :)
- mahjongmi
Oh my, tell me you just made that name up and that it actually won't be called that. LOL
- David Lovekamp
I like that name, created by Leo, LOL
- mahjongmi
Anyone watch that British show "The IT Crowd"? The Friendface episode now has whole new meaning haha
- Mike
If Scoble is there, invite Louis Gray too. We need a realistic perspective.
- jcunwired
Seconded for Louis Grey, Akiva Moskowitz, or Ken Sheppardson.
- Matthew DeVries
Leo, are you rolling live with anything today/tonight on this?
- Matthew DeVries
Guys, if you think FF is going to stick around read the press release and look at how many non-Facebook websites Facebook runs. They bought the people and maybe the tech, but FF as an independent app is toast.
- invariant - farewell FF
+invariant
- Kamilah Gill
best comment ever Leo
- Braden Douglass
This is facebooks chance to have a public facing component, and to not have to duplicate Friendfeed, it's a win. And what's this thing called Twitter?
- Christian Burns
from iPhone
Sounds more like FriendFace to me
- Tom Talbott, Jr
Wishful thinking ... Does Google split with TM owners? Twitter with UGC? No
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
i just told someone how much better ff is than fb!! now this?
- Mike Pollock
Thank my lucky stars I listen to Leo...couldnt get the name I wanted on twitter so I got it on Friendfeed.......in two weeks we ll all be saying Ashton and twitter who?
- Flex Fitness
DO NOT WANT FF intergrated with Facebook....period
- Johann Diaz
from Nambu
Couldn't agree with you more Leo. :)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Isnt that what they said about the Titanic? ;)
- Rich White
Anyone tired of FriendFeed yet? Sorry, more details keep leaking out. :)
Ben you must be exhaused but you're doing a fine job reporting kiddo :)
- Jeunelle Foster
No I did not get paid ... Business in a difficult environment is the true lense of entrepreneurial effort (not success, per se)
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
@Jeunele: Thanks
- Ben Parr
Scoble, your blog still loves you (Scripting News). http://www.scripting.com/stories...
Vishy, Bluesun 2600, Quasi.dot and 11 other people liked this
All the effort he poured into FriendFeed is for naught. They sold to Facebook. In the announcements, no mention of the users, and certainly no mention of Scoble. Now would have been the time for them to tip him, throw him a few thousand. Or if not money, how about at least a hat-tip -- an acknowledgement of the help they received from users, esp Robert Scoble. Nothing. They didn't even give him the first interview.
- Dave Winer
A tr.im link, Dave? Surely, you've heard the news, http://blog.tr.im/post... P.S. I know you do, just a friendly reminder, to change your shortener by December 31.
- Jimminy Fuller
I have to agree with Dave ... caveat ... What is the alternative in the money-making world? When does attribution balance privacy & piracy?
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
I can certainly understand why people feel betrayed, but at the same time, what did we really think was going to happen eventually? There wasn't any possibility it was going to stay this way indefinitely without a revenue stream.
Rui Pereira, TeraDyne Azurepaw, Admiral Anika and 5 other people liked this
I will remind you that the owners and developers have been saying for quite some time that revenue stream is not important.
- jcunwired
Yeah... Just facebook.
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
indeed ... talk is not revenue ... but there are "free" alternatives (vanity-free even)
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
But how do they pay for the bandwidth and the servers without revenue? The money was going to run out eventually.
- Victor Ganata
Map flow to infrastructure. Telecom is 90+% billing, advertising & collections. Pay the user for the flow attributed to their access & bandwidth charges. Real accounting.
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
It's interesting to watch the FriendFeed user reaction ON Friendfeed. The open platform makes for VERY interesting conversations.
Michele Lorito-Chase, Jason Pollock, Yemliha İpek and 3 other people liked this
But how long will this OPEN real time conversation take to move over to FB?
- sean andersen
@Sean that is the question ... Who owns these conversations now a quick follow-up
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
Fwd: http://twitpic.com/964mk - Cat vs Corn... OM NOM NOM (via http://friendfeed.com/ajbatac...) Cute Overload !
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bnoise, Kimber Scott, mlazopoulou and 47 other people liked this
:-D
- Anna Haro
I always love seeing this. And the kitten looks like my cat, which makes it even cuter.
- joey
that little nose :)
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
spike does that in a truly messy way ... awesome
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
I has a corm!
- Mellissa
That is too precious! xo
- Fossil Huntress
Cool. That cat really likes the cob!
- Kevin J Hatton
x_x
- Live4Emma (L4S)
Be honest who bought any Michael Jackson songs online, iTunes, Amazon etc?
Derrick, Louis P., Madhav Tripathi and 3 other people liked this
I bought Wanna be Startin Something off iTunes.
- Mike Fruchter
I have not. I did hear a 2008 electronic mix of Wanna Be Starting Something on the radio that was good enough to buy, though.
- Louis Gray
Not me. Heard a bunch on the radio and that was enough for me. I was never really a fan and don't feel like I should suddenly become a fan just because he died.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Do you know who did the remix Louis?
- Frankie Warren
Apparently a lot of people have: http://friendfeed.com/poppy...
- J.D. Deutschendorf
Already had all the ones I wanted.. many, many of them..
- Andy Connell
Good question, Frankie. I can poke around. It was on 92.7 Energy out of San Francisco the evening he died, and was called the 2008 remix.
- Louis Gray
Do a search for "MJ Mega Remix" in my feed and you'll find my absolute favorite MJ Remix
- Jesse Stay
Louis, could be Akon's version.
- Akiva Moskovitz
And yes, I've bought a few re-makes. There's a Chris Cornell version of Billie Jean that's really good, and I bought a few music videos
- Jesse Stay
Not me...I got tired of his stuff long ago.
- Alex Scoble
I don't have to buy them. I subscribe to Rhapsody. I listened to most of the HIStory album at work this morning. http://www.rhapsody.com
- Skyler Call
Not a one.
- George F. Snell III
Michael WHO???
- Roy Blumenthal
I'm still really tempted to buy "Off The Wall". I had the CD years ago, but I lost during one of the moves.
- ha3rvey (business time)
I might buy this one: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje...
- Louis Gray
the videos were actually my motivation. had forgotten how massively popular & influential they were (& yes I saw the reunion tour at the Orange Bowl ... the last time I think I had binoculars at a concert LOL) ... Happy 4th, Mike!
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
Don't have a single MJ song in my library.
- Herb Hernandez
Evidence that Twitter is growing up - company finally seems to be thinking about trademark issues - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
perhaps but the verification service is poor & the trademark I saw was not registered. it is hard for me to believe there is a proper way to provide attribution consistently ... want my AOL "keywords"?
- Scott Moskowitz
Name a movie that makes you say "OMGWTF?" when someone says they haven't seen it.
timepilot, Carmen - Happy 2010!, Tyson Key and 30 other people liked this
EDIT: Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope (for that dark lord, lustful with power, Mr. Alex Scoble)
- Derrick
Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope
- Alex Scoble
E.T.
- Mike Nayyar
Jurassic Park
- Mike Nayyar
I've never seen E.T.
- Derrick
First one off the top of my head: Star Wars.
- Victor Ganata
OMGWTF
- Mike Nayyar
2001: A Space Odyssey
- Mike Nayyar
And this thread is already full of win.
- Alex Scoble
The Matrix.
- Eric Florenzano
Karate Kid
- ♥patricia♥
Sound of Music
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Wizard of Oz.
- Gunny doesn't side-hug™
Wizard of Oz - Oh Gunny posted it .. sorry :)
- LPH™ and his dog P™
^ All of those ^ But only if the person is between 28 - 50.
- Admiral Anika
Star Wars
- Rodfather
E.T. just never appealed to me. He looked like something you put in a pot of collard greens. O_o
- Derrick
didn't see Karate Kid yet... Only recently finally saw Back to the Future *hides*
- Kamilah Gill
@Derrick, there is no excuse...netflix now! My pic is Christmas Story and I am the one that never saw the whole movie.
- Janet
Star Wars...I bug my eyes.
- Neal Jansons
happened last night with an friend - it was Office Space. We promptly plugged it in!
- BEX
Ten Commandments
- JSNFLMNG
I've never seen the Ten Commandments. :) Probably never will either.
- Alex Scoble
ditto that
- Kamilah Gill
I have never watched Star Wars all the way through.
- Ian May
Ten Commandments is awesome in so many ways. Just the epic nature from an early film industry.
- Janet
By the way, Derrick really should edit his comment to Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope
- Alex Scoble
yeah 10 Commandments? I'm w/Alex I've never seen any Star Wars movie or Lord of the Rings etc.. freaks peeps out.
- BEX
Derrick, you don't have to watch ET. It sucks. Kamilah...sigh. :)
- Admiral Anika
SERENITY. But I'm a Browncoat. We shock easily.
- Steven Perez
ET doesn't suck. Unless you are talking about the lame ass modern Steven Spielberg recut where he digitally changed guns in to walkie talkies.
- Alex Scoble
Spaceballs
- Harold - Happy New Year
lol @ derrick's e.t. comment.
- edythe
Princess Bride - I had this moment last week.
- Andrew
My boyfriend's never seen The Sound of Music.. I think everyone has at least fallen asleep through it! But nope, not him.. :o
- SarahMarieee
It took me six attempts to see Predator, kept falling asleep before twenty minutes into the movie.
- Janet
I was taken to see The Sound of Music on my 6th Birthday. I think it was really because my mother wanted to see it. I don't think I've seen it since.
- Ian May
terminator
- M™
The Right Stuff.
- Alex Scoble
Pulp Fiction.
- Alex Scoble
Star Wars. Raiders of the Lost Ark. The Princess Bride. All things that I, incidentally, did not see until I was a teenager, oddly enough.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Gone With the Wind.
- Sue Radd
confession, I've never seen Godfather in whole
- Kim Landwehr
*FAINTS*
- Mike Nayyar
The Smurfs and the Magic Flute
- Josh Haley
Ferris Beuller's Day Off
- Kenton
Silence of The Lambs
- Michelle McCormack
ET
- Rob Sellen :o)
Eraserhead.
- Tad
Proud of the fact I have never seen any Star Wars, Star Trek or Jurassic Park movies. Have zero interest.
- Adrienne Van Houten
Goonies.
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
Oh yeah, haven't seen any of the Godfather movies either.
- Adrienne Van Houten
Star Wars, most def. Princess Bride is probably another, and anything by Mel Brooks.
- Carlton Hackett
Someone who has seen NONE of the Star Wars series.
- xero
the Charlton Heston version of The Ten Commandments, and any of the Charlie Brown Specials
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Is there a different version? I almost said Ben Hur earlier because I think they made us watch it in school.
- JSNFLMNG
Dead Poets Society (watched it so many times I wanted to put a knife into my eye)
- JSNFLMNG
@JϪsonTFleming http://www.amazon.com/Command...
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
People tend to have this reaction when they find out I've never seen the Matrix, any of the new Lord of the Rings, any of the new comic book movies, or (regarding television, which I add because the reaction is so strong) Buffy the Vampire Slayer. For me, it would be Star Wars and Indiana Jones offerings, Mildred Pierce, It's a Wonderful Life, Akira, and oddly enough The Neverending Story.
- jojo, adventurer
Cannibal Women in the Avocado Jungle of Death
- Joe Pierce
anything in my Flickchart Top 20 - namely Ghostbusters, Back to the Future, Fight Club, any Star Wars movie, etc.
- Nathan Chase
For women of my generation, Dirty Dancing.
- Lis
Ok my real answer is probably The Princess Bride Abby, no it is its own movie and it stars Arienne Barbeau, Bill Maher, and Shannon Tweed.
- Joe Pierce
*prays that I'm not in Lis' generation*
- Admiral Anika
It's a Wonderful Life.
- Andy Bakun
Still haven't seen Blade Runner
- Amber, Random Time Lord
Any of the original three Star Wars and (unfairly) Cool Hand Luke
- Soup
for those of you who haven't seen star wars. Darth Vader is luke's father!
- Jamie Vidamour
12 angry men
- Toby Graham
Lord of the Rings
- Arthur Guy
Matrix.
- vijay
Titanic. Not b/c it's a great film, but I wonder what cave the person was living in.
- John Graham
@John, I too have never seen Titanic.
- Janet
Memento
- rob friedman
from twhirl
Not to be cliche, but Star Wars IV: A New Hope.
- i80and
Metropolis
- Marcos Marado
from fftogo
Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
- Eric P
Goonies
- Yolanda
Back to the Future series.
- Vijayendra (V-Mo) Mohanty
Citizen Kane. I end up saying OMGWTF a lot.
- DGentry
@Marcos I have, in fact, seen Metropolis. It was strangely disconcerting to watch a black and white, silent movie on DVD.
- DGentry
huh, well... I see regularly b&w and/or silent movies on DVD, no problem with that. If the movie is good, you quickly forget those particularities about the movie...
- Marcos Marado
Borat wrestling scene in the hotel room, hands down (but I only see a couple of movies in any given year)
- Scott Moskowitz
Ghostbusters
- Jesse Newhart
+1 Jesse
- JSNFLMNG
Dog Day Afternoon. One of the first Al Pacino films I saw would you believe it, and no-one else I know has even heard of it!
- Charlotte M
That's sad, Charley. It's a damn good film.
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
The Godfather and The Godfather II
- Joey
Major League
- Mike Lewis
How The Grinch Stole Christmas (cartoon)
- Bwana ☠
The Godfather
- Bwana ☠
Big Trouble in Little China.
- Akiva Moskovitz
The Matrix...
- Kandeezie
The Shining - Here's Jack! + Terminator - I'll Be Back + Flash Dance, Ghost, Dirty Dancing - Noone messes with Bebe, aat least one National Lampoons Family Vacation, At Least One Porkies, Wall Street - Greed Is Good, Pretty In Pink and The I See Dead People movie.
- Monique
McCabe and Mrs. Miller
- Big K
Alien.
- Kevin Pedraja
It's a wonderful life - if you haven't seen it, Clarence will lose his wings again....
- WorldofHiglet
Babe.
- Jim in Real Time
Pootie Tang
- Vaughn
<3 Pootie Tang Sa da tay!
- Admiral Anika
Matrix
- Darrell Bell
from twhirl
My first choice is Love Actually. Second choice is Matrix (first).
- Jimmy Walker
Coming to America
- chrisofspades
300
- Garin Kilpatrick
Heh, I haven't seen 300 and don't plan on it.
- Alex Scoble
office space
- acedanger
Blade Runner
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
Schindler's List
- Rene Wirtz
Will I be lynched if I announce I have not seen Star Wars ?
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Pretty much, Ahsan. Flogging to commence in 3....2.....1....
- Alex Scoble
haha, or 2001: Space Odyssey either. Not much for Sci-Fi, you see ;)
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Alex, Dude ! did you say you haven't seen Pulp Fiction ? Please don't make me recite The Verse. "And I shall strike down upon thee"
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
No, Pulp Fiction is one of the movies that if you haven't seen will make me say OMGWTF to you. I've seen it multiple times. Don't be a *moves hands to form a square*.
- Alex Scoble
Better Off Dead.
- AJ Kohn
Oh right :) I agree. And for me, anyone who hasn't seen the Big Lebowski, well, dude ... I'm gonna cut off yer toe !
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
haha I've tried to get through 2001 like 5 times and fell asleep each and every time. and I like sci-fi ;)
- holly
Say Anything....
- Jamie Ginsberg
Yeah, 2001 is best watched while on drugs.
- Alex Scoble
Matrix
- Wayne Sutton
Rocky Horror Picture Show: http://video.libero.it/app...
- Cristo
Hehe, I've never seen Rocky Horror Picture Show and don't plan it.
- Alex Scoble
Alex....No RHPS? Seriously....you're missing out. It's a great movie.
- Christian (Simply X)
No Meatloaf for Alex?
- Cristo
Definitely not. I'm more of a curry kind of guy. ;) And I get plenty of that with Hunt for Red October...which is another movie for this list.
- Alex Scoble
i think it's obnoxious to ridicule someone else for not having experiential knowledge of a particular piece of american culture, but i've been guilty of that, and the first thing that comes to mind is 'the matrix'. i still meet people who haven't actually watched that movie, and it's always when i'm talking about something that requires knowledge of the whole premise behind the movie -- that there is a real world beyond the world of illusion created by our senses. some people just don't get that.
- docrivs
Hehe, docrivs, I love how you are totally living the contradictory dream.
- Alex Scoble
I would say Star Wars. Though there are a surprisingly large number of people here who haven't seen the original trilogy but have seen the new trilogy which is even more OMGWTF worthy!
- Rahul Das
Pulp fiction
- Jorg Jansen
Braveheart (Looking at you Matt!)
- Jen (SquirrelGirl)
@WorldofHiglet Yeah, how can one avoid that one! (Its a Wonderful Life)
- John Graham
Dirty Harry
- Morton Fox
The Bourne Identity.
- Alex Scoble
At least one James Bond movie (preferably something with Sean Connery in it).
- Alex Scoble
Being John Malkovich
- Cristo
@ITBlogger once you understand the premise... you take the 'blue pill' or the 'red pill'... and that's that. more or less, when you understand how (the physics and biology of) perception works and you understand the theory of reality that is used in 'the matrix', if your mind isn't blown already, then you kind of have to try to accept that it is scientifically, philosophically, spiritually, and technologically impossible to disprove that we are not living in 'the matrix' right now. then what?
- docrivs
The contradiction is that you thought it's obnoxious to ridicule people for not having watched a certain movie, but that you've done it. That's great irony right there.
- Alex Scoble
i think the word is hypocritical. i was being hypocritical, because i acted in a way contrary to how i think people should act. i'm full of contradictions like that.
- docrivs
Yeah, but I was trying to be nice and not call you hypocritical. :)
- Alex Scoble
Since folks already said many of my faves, I'll say... uh. Lifeforce or Ice Pirates.
- Arlan Koizumi
Twilight.
- Alp
It's A Wonderful Life
- Martha
I've never seen "It's a Wonderful Life" and plan to go to my grave having never seen it. It's been talked about so much all my life I feel like I've seen it a million times.
- m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
OMGWTF!
- Jim in Real Time
Princess Bride
- Kelly W.
I've never seen Star Wars. Shawn drug me to two or three of the new ones, but I fell asleep within the first 10 minutes or so. I'm always surprised when someone hasn't seen The Lion King, Glory, or Schindler's List.
- Alix Whitmire
I've never seen The Lion King of Beauty and the Beast...don't plan to either. And you can't use your experiences with the new movies to judge 4, 5 and 6...the originals are just so much better.
- Alex Scoble
The Godfather, of course
- directeur
This is Spinal Tap -- anyone who hasn't seen it is missing a big part of their cinema education IMHO.
- Brian Sullivan
Brian's comment goes to 11. Actually, now that I think of it, his comment should be in all caps, hehe.
- Alex Scoble
Oh forgot about Casablanca!
- directeur
Platoon
- Steve
The Matrix
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Ferris Bueller's Day Off !!
- Steve
The Talking of Pelham 123
- Toby Graham
Plan 9 From Outer Space
- Mo Kargas
Do you know your Myers-Briggs Type? I'm an INTP.
Jessie, Greg Guitarbuster, MikeAmundsen and 4 other people liked this
INFJ or an INFP depending on the mood I'm in when I take it.
- Nine
ENTP, but I've been noticing more "I" tendencies lately.
- Ryan Kuder
I'm an ENTJ
- Shevonne
I score right on the border of INTP and ENTP
- Tad
no, unless OMGWTFBBQ is one of the results.
- Josh Haley
ENTP
- ♥patricia♥
duckin' A, Josh.
- Yolanda
from NoiseRiver
INTJ
- Glen Campbell, esq.
INTJ, but the J is often a P. Off the chart I and T. A lot of Ts here...I think I know more Fs than Ts in meatspace.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
INFJ....I think.
- Katie is Frittering
I'm INTP too, AJ :)
- Fa La La La Lindsay
ENTJ
- Brian Roy
@Mark: Try finding one via this page: http://www.livingroom.org.au/blog... [edit] Haven't tried it but there's this one: http://www.kisa.ca/persona...
- AJ Kohn
INFP.
- Trish R
INTJ
- Corie
INFP.
- Alix Whitmire
ENTP, the Innovator! ;-p
- .LAG liked that
I'm INTP too http://nicerobot.mypersonality.info/
- ·[▪_▪]·
i am a "benevolent 'pedagogue' of humanity", an enfj. http://www.mypersonality.info/persona...
- Marie drinks champagne
Not surprising (at least to me) is the abundance of Introverts.
- AJ Kohn
INFP, but sometimes I'm more INTP.
- Jason Wehmhoener
@Brian you are the only other ENTJ. We are a rare breed, I guess
- Shevonne
I still think that we're not really introverts... it's just that face to face is not our most comfortable method of communication, so we seem withdrawn to those who are better at that type of communication. Online we're usually "extroverted" but it's because we control how we communicate. When introvert and extrovert were defined that method of communication wasn't available.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
We're more in control of ourselves without the hassles of our meatspace front ends.
- Tad
been a while since i last took the test, but i used to flucutate INTJ/INFP
- MikeAmundsen
INFP
- Greg Guitarbuster
++ Lindsay. Although, really introvert vs extrovert is about whether you get energized by being around people or alone. You can be an outgoing introvert, it's just not as common. NFs are like that, because their concern for others comes across as outgoing.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
ENTJ & ENTP ... and as one other commented, results do vary between tests
- Scott Moskowitz
@Lindsay: I think it is interesting to see how this new method of communication disrupts the regular pattern of 'personality'. My classic definition of I vs E is are you exhausted after a party or energized. But online - I can 'be' with a ton of folks but not feel drained.
- AJ Kohn
AJ, that's probably because online you completely choose how you participate (or not), and you're free to compose your thoughts before you participate so you can express yourself without being anxious you're not saying what you mean. And you can withdraw whenever you want as well. It's a lot easier than dealing with meatspace... it's never awkward. :)
- Fa La La La Lindsay
usually an INTJ, but on a good day, an INTP
- William Harryman
@Lindsay: Spot on!
- AJ Kohn
I'm an INTP too. I like learning about everything, but get bored with knowing all the details of it.
- Scott W
Tired of Looking for Work, Some Create Their Own - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2009...
Amit Patel, Kevin Pruett, Shawn Farner and 32 other people liked this
"In an apartment he shares here with six roommates, Mr. Andon started a business in September building jellyfish aquariums, capitalizing on new technology that helps the fragile creatures survive in captivity. He has sold three tanks, one for $25,000 to a restaurant, and is starting a Web site to sell desktop versions for $350. “I keep getting stung,” he said. And his crowded home office is filled with beakers and test tubes of jellyfish food. “But it beats looking for work. I hate looking for work.” Plenty of other laid-off workers across the country, burned out by a merciless job market, are building business plans instead of sending out résumés. For these people, recession has become the mother of invention."
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
Wow. Very cool. Makes me want to jump start my aquaculture plan.
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
A perfect time to oppose Patent Reform ...
- Scott Moskowitz
I love jellyfish, tempted to become a customer.
- Jason Wehmhoener
I'm trying to do the same thing with my videos... tho this guy is beating the crap out of my efforts. I love water based life so much. Why don't we have proper floating cities in the sea again? I'd love to spend my days swimming in them and researching the life around them. Imagine having a bedroom window that was underwater in the middle of an expanse of water. Beats any TV for sure!
- alphaxion
Whenever an economic downturn starts to turn, new businesses like this abound; so much so that is skews unimployment numbers.
- Robert Hafer
Cool!
- orionstarr
This is what people need to be doing. Having a "job" is fine in a good economy, but really, consolidating all of our brains and skills into a few big enterprises makes as little sense as investing all our money in a few big banks or having only a few brands which sell any thing we want or need. Starting a business doesn't have to mean that you want to become a millionaire. Just build something that will replace your previous income. If you find ways to grow it in a sane way, great!
- Lisha Sterling
@Rehafer ack, "skews unemployment numbers"?? NO!! Just the opposite. It makes the economy and work life saner. More small businesses = healthier economy.
- Lisha Sterling
O_o I got your point, Robert.
- Christopher Harley
Any references to Seven Pounds (http://www.imdb.com/title...)?
- Jérôme Flipo
Pfff, I hate working
- sofarsoShawn
I thought about creating a blog and monetizing off it with adsense because I got tons of recession money making tips to share, but I cant think of a good name
- Kyle Weller
um, anybody else reading this as 'METH LAB' = self employed?
- Morgan Haley
Asking the Times: If a tanked jellyfish liquefies, can it be used on toast? http://tiny.cc/6JZfi
- Douglas Hopkins
Feds Demand Prison for Guns N' Roses Uploader - http://blog.wired.com/27bstro...
John E. Bredehoft, mohammadk, Scott Moskowitz and 3 other people liked this
Federal prosecutors in Los Angeles are pursuing a 6-month prison term for a Los Angeles man who pleaded guilty in December to one misdemeanor count of uploading pre-release Guns N' Roses tracks, according to court documents.
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
from Bookmarklet
Because uploading GnR is akin to aggravated assault? Well, they may have a point...
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
TRUE!
- Russell Wagner
those tracks were watermarked & clearly labeled a such ... but the best buy exclusive did not work out that well for GN'R unit sales only (not sure what the split was) - fwiw, it is a solid album
- Scott Moskowitz
U.S. 30-Year Yields Reach Four-Month High as Auctions Increase - Bloomberg.com - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps...
Russellreno, Jason Wehmhoener, Scott Moskowitz and 4 other people liked this
"March 14 (Bloomberg) -- Treasury 30-year bond yields touched the highest in almost four months as the pace of debt sales by the government accelerated and stocks posted the biggest weekly gain since November, lessening the refuge appeal of U.S. debt. Yields on the longest maturity government security rose as the Treasury sold $63 billion in securities this week, including $11 billion in bonds. Shorter-maturity debt was little changed as the cost of borrowing in dollars approached the highest level of the year as bank hoarded cash and governments struggled to thaw credit markets. “It’s more a supply story than anything else,” said David Coard, head of fixed-income trading in New York at Williams Capital Group, a brokerage for institutional investors. In addition, “‘we haven’t seen stocks rally like we did this week in a long time.”"
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
The Chinese rattling sabers about our Treasuries. Obama following up by saying investors can have "absolute confidence," in U.S. Treasury Bonds. Maybe we need to see rates/inflation go really really high like they did back in the 70s in order to set the stage for the rates to eventually come back down in order to fuel the next bull market like we saw through the 80s and 90s.
- Thomas Hawk
I think this is better than launching rockets at satellites - dialog is a good thing ... What the world needs is continued transparency & brighter lines for metes & bounds of ownership/attribution to build confidence ... Making our IPR agreements, as the Obama Admin did this week, "state secrets" is *not* going to be helpful to job creation IMHO. Good insight Thomas!
- Scott Moskowitz
Google blocks popular iPhone SMS app http://www.macworld.com/article... REALLY! Google what is "network neutrality"? Open standards? #fail #fairuse
what are "open standards" again?
- Scott Moskowitz
Why DM me? copyright terms were limited to 14 yrs by the Founders. Your DM implies Congress needn't raise taxes or declare war either, no?
this was for @CopyrightLaw & your analysis that the States trump what the Founders carved out for the Fed Govt is inherently illogical - States had already issued patents by the time the first Patent Act was enacted ... why not point to a better example for "patents"?
- Scott Moskowitz
A paper I wrote in 1991 about the Tokyo Land Market ... what a way to go back into the future - paper really is a very good medium ... so the images are below "Title_Page"
- Scott Moskowitz
ABC News: Facebook Scandal Version 2.0 - http://abcnews.go.com/Busines...
Cory Brown, tinypants - Hagitha of FF, Bill Romanos and 4 other people liked this
In full-blown legalese, Facebook basically told its users that when they posted personal information to their Facebook pages (including photos, the music they were listening to at that moment, or their favorite movies), Facebook owned that information forever and could use it in just about any manner the company wished.
- Leo Laporte
@michael okay - define "use" in view of "ownership" - even format, platform, biz-model ... $300 mil est revenue for 175 mil accts - are you in favor of upside shared with users not just advertisers? What about liability against ID Theft or misuse of information deemed "private"?
- Scott Moskowitz
@michael I'll comment independent of @moskowitz the user has a definite interest in how their information is "used" or "owned" - not everything is viewed in legal terms - trust is "fungible" - look at the banking system. If "rights" are paramount where is "transparency" & "responsibility"? to assert that changes to terms of service are made solely to accomodate a biz model then the expectation of the provider is suspect - suggest the arguments made famous by dan geer> security as insurance
- Wes Schadenfreud
my thoughts on this here: http://www.chuqui.com/2009... -- my future w/ facebook depends on how they fix this. Their new facebook people blog isn't the answer... I've limited what I put on facebook for a while, it's mostly about keeping in contact with other friends on facebook than it is content creation on facebook. they can own my status updates if they want, I won't miss them...
- Chuq Von Rospach
CBS, Last.fm Deny Passing User Data To RIAA; Some Users Delete Accounts - http://www.paidcontent.org/entry...
john, J. Abdul-Qahhar, Scott Moskowitz and 2 other people liked this
In ten years there will either be no RIAA, or no recorded music. Increasingly, evidence is mounting that the two cannot coexist.
- jcunwired
@josh, okay, when will the case be made commensurate with years of experience over these issues? Attribution would help & Compulsory licensing may ultimately be deemed "fair" akin to performance rights & mechanicals - outside of the sound recording &/or video production ... When will users & artists see actuarial measurements? Technology is there / Interests apparently not aligned
- Scott Moskowitz
...crap
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Startup Schwag shirt this month - 12 seconds.
Igor Poltavskiy, Wes Schadenfreud, Ken Stewart | ChangeForge and 14 other people liked this
Yea for 12seconds - scruz geeks par excellence :)
- Nadine Schaeffer
Nice. They are local to me. I should stop by and grab a shirt :)
- Rodfather
sweet!
- mashable
Awesome, I love what they are doing - I'm in Santa Cruz, too, Rod! I need to force myself to get comfortable on camera so I can participate.
- Laura Norvig
How is beach feeling? Go 12seconds.tv!
- Scott Moskowitz
Suddenly, infrastructure is cool again - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17...
john, Bill Romanos, Valeria Maltoni and 9 other people liked this
Interest in infrastructure is happening away from the glare of the media because it's not something that can be easily described in a single sentence. Or 140 characters, as the case may be...
- Nick Dingle
tell me about it! My day job is interesting, to say the least :)
- Valeria Maltoni
Infrastructure = structured & unstructured data & unread ToS - attribution is the battleground > legacy infrastructure & assumptions concerning legacy properly frames notions of "ownership" "use" "equity" "fairness" & who pays?
- Scott Moskowitz
Nearly intact mammoth skeleton a rare find in L.A. - http://www.cnn.com/2009...
Scott Moskowitz liked this
Did it get there on Noah's ark?
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Who ate the steaks?
- Scott Moskowitz
Good point!
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
The Associated Press: NY Post cartoon seems to link Obama to dead chimp - http://www.google.com/hostedn...
Rick Cogley, Alex Hung, Brian Bufalo and 58 other people liked this
"NEW YORK (AP) — The New York Post is standing behind a cartoon that some have interpreted as comparing President Barack Obama to a violent chimpanzee gunned down by police. The cartoon in Wednesday's Post by Sean Delonas shows two police officers standing over the body of a bullet-riddled chimp. One of the officers says the other, "They'll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill." Civil rights activist Al Sharpton called the cartoon "troubling at best given the historic racist attacks of African-Americans as being synonymous with monkeys." But Sharpton said the Post should clarify the point it was trying to make with the cartoon, which was playing off Monday's rampage by a pet chimpanzee in Stamford, Conn., that left a woman severely mauled. Police ended up killing the chimp. In a statement, Post Editor-in-Chief Col Allan said: "The cartoon is a clear parody of a current news event, to wit the shooting of a violent chimpanzee in Connecticut. It broadly mocks Washington's efforts to re"
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
Yeah, the racist people are the ones who've been referred to as monkeys, who haven't conveniently forgotten that it happened. It's probably just a coincidence, since the NY Post is such a tasteful and generally respectful piece of trash -- I mean paper.
- Richard Lawler
Frankly I think the reaction is a tad overblown. I voted for Obama and support the stimulus but it seems congress is no more effective than a bunch of monkeys.
- BCK
And you can vote for and donate to who you want, but I'd love to live in a world where I didn't remember people referring to the current president and people who look like him as a monkeys during the campaign process. I don't have to reach back unreasonably far.
- Richard Lawler
" Yeah, the racist people are the ones who've been referred to as monkeys, who haven't conveniently forgotten that it happened." ??????????????? I am having a hard time with this quote! care to expound further? If you have not been a victim of Racism how in the F@#$k can you even muster the nerve to Comment on this? I cannot believe what I am reading here....Classic case of blaming the Victim. I will concede one point. Al Sharpton should not be the showcased Voice of outrage here.
- bcultral
Did you not see what I replied to Robin? I think what i'm saying (edit:sarcastically) is pretty clear.
- Richard Lawler
I don't find what you said is offensive btw Chris, but I think its at best naive. I don't think it's in any way racist to know the history, including recent history, of racist imagery, and I don't think the Post picked the monkey incident by accident, I think they're a trash newspaper looking for attention any way they can.
- Richard Lawler
I am Half White and Half Black and hypersensitive to the issue/sickness of Racism. I just saw the quote. I apologize if my response is taken personal. The quote stunned me. I am of the opinion that Racism is the most debased and vile mindset that exists in this World. a sickness...nothing personal to either you Chris or Richard..just realize that there are Codes that give messages and we all know the Monkey Code...Don't We? by the way I cannot hate either Black or White because both are my Family
- bcultral
I am actually in the process of launching AntiRacismTv. a social enterprise attached to Change.org...We are trying to bring this cause to a National level once and for all....Racism has permeated our society/reality for too long. And just maybe this outrage will bring this issue to the National arena where it belongs...not in the closets of peoples mind/thoughts.
- bcultral
It's ironic that so many people refer to GWB as a chimp, and now we're hypersensitive to the same characterization.
- Kevin Fox
I will let you in on a secret: Black Americans expect Obama to be killed by a racist. This is the talk behind closed doors. So although he was elected we are not overly optimistic that he will survive. We expect Racism to win again...Sad commentary
- bcultral
Well when the Aliens declare their presence maybe we will see Humans as a Species....and Humanity will fulfill it's true meaning. lol
- bcultral
Uh... George the monkey, that bit someone and was shot to death has been the local talk for the past few days - to associate the Post's cartoon to racism is ludicrous.
- Mona Nomura
FYI All my life I have caught the flux of prejudice from both sides..Black and White..So I speak from the "Grey" area..
- bcultral
Racism, assassinations, and aliens? Is this a screenplay you're writing?
- coldbrew
In my studies of Linguistic Racism the monkey is a Code. such as the banksters vocabulary of being in the Red or Black. Poor Southern Slaveholders who were cash poor but had Blacks in the backyard (slavery) were considered to have worth. This is where the term being in the Black comes from. (a short history lesson)
- bcultral
I know that's fun to *say*, but are there other, more suitable people than those we elected?
- coldbrew
The Post is a local paper, targeting the locals. The nation does not see what goes on, LOCALLY. You're not on the subways, listening to the laughter between strangers talking about "George the Monkey". You're not walking the streets where the cart vendors are talking and laughing about "George the Monkey" Bottomline is, if you want to tie something to another, enough, you can.
- Mona Nomura
White, we also, "drive on the parkway, and park on the driveway" - George Carlin (RIP)
- coldbrew
There is a series of Coded Words: White Lie vs Black Lie, Angel Food Cake vs Devils Food Cake, Black Magic vs White Magic..the list goes on. Unfortunately Racism is protected by new Codes such as Politically Incorrect. This is a very deep subject that needs to be dealt with once and for ALL
- bcultral
Darkness is also used a s metaphor for the unknown. When it is dark, one cannot see, there is an unknown. People often fear the unknown.
- coldbrew
I have to go but I have great respect for the people and conversations I have observed on FF. Please be encouraged by your forthright attempts to address the issue. Please dont minimize..this is insulting. Later FF peeps
- bcultral
Angel Food Cake vs Devils Food Cake? LOL You have GOT to be kidding me. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard and YES I deal with racism every single day - especially on the East Coast where I've been called "China-man" as an insult and "Chink" as a cat call. If someone associates food to racism, that sounds more like a personal problem to me. That person is only making themselves feel inferior.
- Mona Nomura
Sorry, old habit of addressing people by their last names. I still answer my phone that way :) I was merely pointing out that many sayings/ colloquialisms don't make sense when taken literally.
- coldbrew
@Robin, can you provide a source for your "being in the Black" assertion? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've never heard that particular claim before.
- Joey Gibson
I don't mean to minimize anything, but the "food cake naming conspiracy" is a bit tough to swallow.
- coldbrew
Here we go with the racism. Unfortunately, there WAS a big story about a rampaging chimp. I posted it here. It's the first thing I thought of when I saw this cartoon. I think some people are overreacting
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
You seem to have quite the time budget for FF. I have an entire pc devoted to it now :-o
- coldbrew
I'm pretty sure that being "in the black" refers to the color of the ink used on ledgers. They would use red note a negative but if everything was good they would use the black ink. http://www.etymonline.com/index... You can find it under "black" here.
- Andrew
No assertion. I have years of research into this subject. www.antiracistalliance.com. I am part of the upcoming UN conference on racism. Scheduled again this year...I am on my G1 so it is difficult to get into this deeper. Believe you me I will address all your points when I get back to my pc...
- bcultral
Beware of perceptions of those who are on the receiving end of words and meanings
- bcultral
It doesn't matter what organization you are a part of. Like I said above, if people want to establish a connection there will always be a way. Isn't that what research *is*? Robin - beware and be aware mean two different things. Just saying.
- Mona Nomura
Oh, and I blatantly disregarded your last name as in any way relevant to the discussion. Oops?
- coldbrew
Robin, I respect your research and I'm looking forward to hearing more. I'm surprised by the 'in the red' 'in the black' claim, as I though that was pretty well documented as originating from the practice of using red ink to call out negative numbers on balance sheets. It seems much more likely that any racist usage of the term came about as an adaptation from the accounting origins, rather than vice-versa.
- Kevin Fox
I think people cry racism all too often when there could be doubt about racist intent, but in this case I think the racism is rather clear. There's no other clear connection. What simile or metaphor links the monkey to the writing of the stimulus bill? There is none. And just because the chimp was in the news doesn't make a connection. Perhaps the cartoonist was unaware of the thinking behind the cartoon, but I think the intent is rather clear both for the author and for the audience.
- Rod Bauer
I'd just be interested in seeing the NY Post's editors stand together and say that they're entirely ignorant of American history, and that's how they innocently didn't see this as potentially offensive. I'm more than willing to believe that they're dumber than a middle aged fast food working character in Clerks 2, if you ever pick up that paper it's pretty obvious.
- Richard Lawler
A very cynical side of me believes that the Post knew publishing this would stir up controversy but be easily defensible.
- Andrew
Bauer, please read Mona N's comments above for context in this specific situation. Sorry *we* sidetracked the disussion.
- coldbrew
Sean Delonas has a long history of racialy insensitive cartoons. He regularly portrayed Mayor Dinkins and Rev Sharpton in questionable light
- David Parmet
from twhirl
Chris. Everywhere I look I see a lot of people blaming Obama for the stimulus bill. Who's leading us, they say, into socialism? You think all this is forgotten when a political cartoon comes out?
- Rod Bauer
coldbrew. Thanks, I tried to catch up on the thread but got lost on some of the side discussion.
- Rod Bauer
Some other funny cartoons from Delonas http://gawker.com/5155855...
- Greg Guitarbuster
Part of this is Huff Post's fault for turning a non-issue into an issue. Shame on them. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009...
- Mona Nomura
It's editorial. Period.
- Mattb4rd
That guy Delonas is remarkably untalented.
- Richard Lawler
It's nothing to do with Obama, but I can't believe no-one feels that this is tasteless in view of the horrible injuries that woman sustained
- Tim Ostler
Not sifting through the comments but I think I called the monkey George but his name is Travis. I have Curious George in my head, my mistake.
- Mona Nomura
I was called a racist in college by another student because I liked to play pool in the student lounge. She claimed the game was racist because the white ball was used to hit all the other colored balls and then the black one last. Anyone that played a game like that had to be racist, in her opinion.
- Mattb4rd
I thought he was shot to death - it's been the biggest news around here but frankly I don't care (can't you tell? I didn't even read it)
- Mona Nomura
FYI, redheads are evil ;)
- coldbrew
Yes Mona, a 200Lb pet chimpanzee attacked a women, severely injuring her, and the opened the door of a police cruiser to get to an officer and he killed it.
- Mattb4rd
I'm going to agree with Kevin Fox; GWB was called and portrayed as a chimp/monkey countless times. Where was the outrage of disrespect when that happened?
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
I can't believe anyone could look at this and miss the indirect racism. I'm not saying it was intentional but there is no doubt that the editorial staff made the connection. You can make the argument about who wrote the bill or whether it was intentional, but the editorial staff is paid to catch this kind of thing. They made the connection and judged that the publicity wouldn't hurt them.
- Andrew
Matt: Ya all I know is that he was huge and people were laughing that someone had a 200lb monkey as a pet. Everywhere I go people are talking about anything BUT the injured woman and end result. ie: What did the monkey eat? Where did he sleep? etc. Insensitive? Perhaps, but I'm guilty of it too.
- Mona Nomura
Mark. I guess I wasn't paying attention during the last 8 years. Geoge W. Bush is black?
- Rod Bauer
exxxxactly Andrew. Though as I said, I'd LOVE, as in, I would pay money, to see them stand up and explain precisely how stupid and uneducated they are that they completely missed this. Put it on PPV.
- Richard Lawler
@Andrew and others. Like is said above and keep repeating: The Post is local. If you aren't aware of the local jokes and news, the context could get twisted and THAT is exactly what happened.
- Mona Nomura
Makes Andrew Card's comments about dress code in the West Wing even more removed from that which others clearly observe as being inappropriate in the form not substance genre of inappropriateness ... Dare say responsible journalists should own this when asking for "subsidization" for news via some nebulous "pay as go" system akin to Ed Wasserman's helpful but obtuse suggestions (me thinks bandwidth is truly currency as evidenced by the discourse raised here)
- Scott Moskowitz
Using sharpton as the voice of protest is a deflection. This cartoon is offensive and I feel no need to apologize for being offended. Nor will I personalize my reresponses. I will reference other ant-racist activist who are white. Tim wise being one. He has a dynamic youtube presentation dealing with the issue of race from a point of veiw of a white american. There are many whites who can better address this than I. Because invariably the mantra becomes black people are too sensitive about
- bcultral
Mona - The Post isn't just local. They have a very popular website that is seen all over the world. Drudge links to them at least once a week. If you have ever dealt with an editorial staff, you know they won't miss this. They look for every single double entendre they can. They look for ways that the writing could be misinterpreted. Whether or not the writer intended this, the editorial staff had to have caught this. Or they are really bad at their jobs.
- Andrew
@Rod Bauer No, but to openly refer to a sitting president, even a blue or a green one, as a chimp is pretty insulting, isn't it? But not one peep about it from anyone...
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Page Six and Drudge - enough said. I'm not going to argue about editorial choices but some things cause more harm than good. @Robin - I understand and respect your feelings but may I ask why this is/was offensive to you? @Mark - so it's ok if it's Dubya frequently compared to a chimp?
- Mona Nomura
I don't think "not one peep about it from anyone" is entirely accurate. Regardless, if you want to insult the president personally in an editorial, you can do that, but to slur a whole group of people is a bit different.
- Richard Lawler
Apparently so, Mona. I say no, but several posts here say I'm wrong.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
@Mark. I agree with you even though I think Bush treated the American people worse than anyone treated him. That said, I would not refer to Bush as a monkey or chimp. The point in question, however, is whether the chimp is an indicator of racism. And it is and the Post used it as such. I don't think they could have been unaware of that.
- Rod Bauer
The racism within the cartoon is deafening. A lack of American history is required to suggest otherwise. The FF responses on either side are becoming enlightening long-term by the letter, so we are not where we would like to think that we are as a country and world. No, I do not believe President Obama will be assassinated either & will be re-elected at that. An attempt maybe, but not assassinated due to heightened security.
- Roney Smith
I dunno if it was intentionally racist, but it sure is tone deaf. As is the Post's handling of the whole affair.
- Chris Baskind
There is no way this is clearly racist or clearly not. I think some people feel they need to find something to be wronged over.
- Robert DeBord
I just think it's typical modus operandi of a NY publication to boost slumping sales. If someone said this already, forgive me, there are way too many comments for me to read.
- Terence
In an enlightened way, referring to a human as something other than human is by definition race-ism, so, yes, this cartoon, whether it relates to Pelosi and Frank, to Obama, or all those times it was directed at GWB are all equally racist.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Monkeys have, throughout history, been used in cartoons to portray incompetence. There are plenty of people who see the spending bill as a gross example of incompetence. Obama didn't write the bill. The chuckleheads in Congress did. A reasonable person can conclude that this is not racist. Al Sharpton has made a career out of crying about racism. Pretty humorous since he is a buffoon...
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- Dean Rodgers
from twhirl
@dean. A lot of people are unaware of racism. Maybe you are. A lot of people can walk into a business and see a sign that reads "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" and not understand that it's directed at certain people and not have the empathy to realize how much that hurts if it's directed at you.
- Rod Bauer
Is Al Sharpton even "crying about racism" here? You cite the history of cartoons using monkeys to represent incompetence but you ignore the history of black people being called monkeys. We can't pay attention to all history? I don't think that's extreme political correctness, it's just not being willfully ignorant. Any outlet with class wouldn't run something like this.
- Richard Lawler
Working as a temp in Kentucky, I once listened in on a conversation about racial epithets. A guy admitted to calling black people "porch monkeys" or "yard apes." When I was growing up in Mississippi, I went into the classroom where my mother taught Advanced Biology and Chemistry and read something someone had scrawled in ink on a blackboard: "Nig***s are proof that a white man fuc*** a monkey." I suppose it's just an unfortunate coincidence.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Rod, I think you made my point. "Reserving the right to refuse service" does not, necessarily mean racist. It could just as well mean, "If you behave like an idiot in my place of business, I'm going to throw you out."
- Dean Rodgers
That's a pretty deep question, I don't live my life every day to extinguish racism or anything like that and I wouldn't suggest someone else taking it on as a quest and life goal.I think that some people have decided that being aware of race = racism, which simply isn't correct, or possible, especially for people who can see how it directly affects / has affected their lives and their family's lives.
- Richard Lawler
As an outsider (European in America) I can see that the US probably is more racist than ever, but now this racism is veiled in politcal correctness. PC is "invented" by liberals, but now it is mostly used by politically conservative people to shield their otherwise obvious racism.
- Rene Wirtz
First Issue: Everyone here has a "opinion" as to what Racism is. Second: unless you have been the subject of Racism your "opinion" does not hold water in a intellectual exchange. Third: Institutional Racism does your work for you if you are White=White Skin Priviledge. (priviledge inferred/granted by the institutional structures in place since the beginning of this Republic) Fourth: There is a definition of Racism that makes All Whites racists. RACE Prejudice+Power (power to impose racial prejudice)
- bcultral
Wow, all this over a careless cartoon piece - the power and danger of the web.
- DJ Chang
be it personal or institutional. Structural Racism is real and Systemic. The problem it seems to me, is that definitions are not universal. Everyone seems to have their own definition=opinion. Here are a few links from so-called White people acknowledging and Institutional Racism: ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc&feature=PlayList&p=95592789F55AF875&index=0&playnext=1...
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- bcultral
I simply don't know the creator's intent... but the "truth" inside a great deal of this kinda stuff - the essence of what is expressed / experienced via art - is a halfway point between the creator and the beholder; one cannot just point the finger at one side of that creative transaction. Also, I respectfully submit that I find a lot of Robin's historical / linguistic references herein highly dubious.
- Anthony Citrano
http://racetraitor.org/ For the commentary who does not care what organization I belong to: http://www.antiracistalliance.com/ The Director called me tonight in response to this article. Anti Racist Alliance coordinates Workshops conducted by the Peoples Institute http://www.ashoka.org/node... http://www.pisab.org/
- bcultral
PISAB has trained over two hundred thousand Social Workers throughout America. Were at the UN Conference of on Racism in 2001 a few weeks before the Sep 11th attack where the US walked out.
- bcultral
Robin - I don't know if link bombing and citing credentials are the best ways to approach this. People are asking about specific things you said. Maybe if you address those it might help people understand where you are coming from.
- Andrew
You as a individual may not be a bigot, may not be prejudice but Racist? This Country and thereby our "Economic" system was built on Racism. Without a doubt. Again, unless you have been subjected to Racism you have no right to speak on People of Color crying about it. It is out of your realm of experience. Therefore you need to learn not exhibit your internalized superiority by speaking on something you dont know about.
- bcultral
I suggest that all the high minded commentators READ up on the subject and not lend mouth service with your opinions.....
- bcultral
Nothing constructive can be accomplished until we accept that humans are all one race. And Robin, I am a European-American, ethnicly caucasian, immigrant to the US, and have been subject to ethnic slurs within the past year.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
If the "monkey" was supposed to "signify" Congress, then why not have a BUNCH of monkeys? A barrel of monkeys? Why just one. What does that mean? This is a cartoon. It's arguably art. It is certainly socio-political.There's a million different ways the artist could have gone to voice dissent against the stimulus package. Interpret as you wish, but it raises more questions than it answers.
- .LAG liked that
Interesting, Robin. So how would you explain the instances I've been subjected to racism by "People of Color"?
- Mona Nomura
from fftogo
Because LAG, it wasn't a barrell of monkeys or any of those things that was in the news recently, it was a dead chimp.
- Mattb4rd
Robin you seem to be implying that a majority of whites are racist in one way or another and that we have no right to discuss this topic. How is that prejudice any better than a white being prejudice against a black?
- BCK
Mona I guess that us being on the receiving end is irrelevant.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Just LOL'd at the Spike Lee type commentary in this thread. Justifiable charges of racism lose some legitimacy due to the overabundance of frivolous and unfounded charges.
- Mattb4rd
This thread is making me remember this song http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Andrew
monkeys have been referred to whites as well.. I used to live in a town called Hartlepool which is famous for trying and hanging a chimp as a french spy because, as the legend goes, all they know of the french was that "they were hairy, smelled and spoke gibberish". You can read whatever you want into anything, ask the cartoon drawer what they meant, until then you're making your own story up. By the way, if you wanna talk discriminating language, how about us left handed people! :P
- alphaxion
I certainly suffered that moving from the north east of England to the midlands.. Stoke remains the most agressive and prejudiced place I have ever lived.
- alphaxion
Over here, a black cricketer got called a 'monkey' by an Indian bowler, and there was a bit of fuss about it. I didn't particularly enjoy this cartoon, I thought it was simple and in bad taste.
- Will Higgins™
It all comes down to overreaction. Bush was commonly refered to as a monkey during his four years (http://home.comcast.net/~chlora...) with no discussion, yet when a cartoon comes out without any implicit statement of Obama, people instantly jump to criticize without stopping to figure out what is going on. Yes chimps were used in racist connotations (and still are) but all references are not inherently racist.
- BCK
as I said, ask the drawer what they meant.. until then you're reading everything else yourself.
- alphaxion
You think asking the Post to clarify the point it's trying to make, given the connotations, is overreaction?
- Richard Lawler
I never said that, I just said that until you know what they were trying to convey all you are doing is making up the details. Asking the post to clarify it is a perfectly reasonable response if all you are seeing is racist connotations, if anything just to clarify whether that is what is meant or not.
- alphaxion
Richard this is what is needed. Concerned Citizens asking questions about the motive and intent. Turn this controversy into a positive. Yet given the source and the history of this particular artist I cannot claim racism or blame the controversy on the Post. The fact that it has created a stir benefits the Post in fact.
- bcultral
I'd say the connotations are imaginary.
- Mattb4rd
You really believe the Post's reporters and that cartoonist specifically aren't cognizant of American history and take that into account in their content? Sure, I don't think they've had more than a second grade education, but I'm surprised so many people agree with me.
- Richard Lawler
prejudice in inherent across racial lines that is the point. Structural Racism is systemic and outside of the individual prejudices. I laud and welcome the commentary on the subject. I just feel that a definitive reference point is needed. This is the problem of the lack of a universal definition.
- bcultral
Richard Lawler is dead on. Neither the Post management nor the cartoonist are in 2nd Grade. Nor are they rubes.
- Nick in Manila
I cited references to organizations that focus on this issue. I am of the mind personally that the whole issue of Race in America centers on a Socially constructed identity. The first time Europeans began to be identified as White was after Bacons Rebellion. (read The Peoples History by Howard Zinn) I believe only in the United States and S. Africa are you born and identified at birth by a racial designation.
- bcultral
over reactions by dumb asses. simple
- Enrique Gutierrez
from twhirl
Robin - I am still waiting for your thoughts regarding my instances of being the object of racism by "People of Color".
- Mona Nomura
from fftogo
Agreed, Lindsey. Think of all the ethnic cleansing during the 20th century alone.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
I'm a cartoon writer and know many cartoonists, including syndicated cartoonists. The people who assume the monkey is Obama are being the racists, IMO. It's clear that the cartoonist is saying that the stimulus bill may as well have been written by an ape. Did Obama write the stimulus bill? NO! This controversy is for those people looking to be offended and who enjoy being self-righteous victims.
- Dawn
If you're reading racism or even anything about Pres. Obama into the cartoon, you're shooting in the wrong direction. The cartoon's purpose is to jokingly indicate that a monkey could have written the bill because it was just thrown together. The Pres. didn't write the bill. The cartoonist was inspired by the fact that a monkey got shot. It had nothing to do with a particular person.
- Carl Pruitt
@carl: i think you're aboslutely right about the illustration... but look at how many comments and alternate (mis)interpretations this one cartoon has spawned. I thought racism ended the day obama won the election. hahahaha! think again.
- .LAG liked that
Dean. I think you make my point. If you're not in the race that's targeted, it's easy to think that no racism exists. People who haven't experienced racism don't think it exists, hence the wide difference in polls of white and black people in America. And, in answer to Chris's question, people are changed from experience or acquiring empathy. "Walk a mile" has a lot of truth.
- Rod Bauer
Sorry Rod, I happen to agree with the woman who said "This controversy is for those people looking to be offended and who enjoy being self-righteous victims." At some point, everyone becomes a victim of some sort of prejudice (albeit in varying degrees). It is possible not to see racism where it exists and it is possible to see racism where it doesn't. This situation is the latter. Want an example of the former? Go review Rev. Lowery's benediction at Obama's inauguration.
- Dean Rodgers
Oh really? Care to point out the former? I'm sure this is going to be fantastic.
- Richard Lawler
I did.
- Dean Rodgers
If nothing else, this cartoon got people talking about race. It may not be constructive since no one seems to be able to understand the other's point of view, but it is out of the closet and on the table for discussion. I have relatives of mixed race who assure me they recieve prejudice equally from both sides. The most important factor is that we are much less different from each other...
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- Phil Boiarski
wow. I didn't think that this would end up with 160 comments when I posted it. They say that sometimes great art makes you think and creates dialog and conversation. Not that I'm calling this or any other op/ed political cartoons art. But I do wonder the intent of the artist and if as much forethought went into this cartoon's creation as discussion and controversy have followed it's publication.
- Thomas Hawk
What the hell does the monkey have to do with the stimulus package? Geez, it's like the election all over again. "Oh no, these stuffed monkeys we're carrying with Obama's name on them? Got nothing to do with racism!" Yeah, right. Pull the other one.
- Steven Perez
I think the bottom line is that people who don't acknowledge that this cartoon expresses racist intent are living with their head in a hole in the ground. And that's the reason that racism still exists in America. We allow it to.
- Rod Bauer
Someone posted this on their FB profile yesterday and I said pretty much what Rod said here. This is a disgrace it goes beyond the acceptable satire of a political cartoon and steps directly into racism. But then again it's the NYPost, so I suppose expected anything less than crappy editorial decisions and questionable ethics is silly.
- Cathy Brooks
from twhirl
The cartoon is way out of line. The Post should apolgize to the President.
- John Flynn
OMG
- Blake Caldwell
I didn't even read this as being the President....as my first thought was Congress being the Monkeys. Come on people, really...it's a cartoon. Editorial at that. I have seen pictures showing Bush as a monkey...where is your Outrage then? No apology needed I say.
- Kreg Steppe
Congratulations on being wrong, Kreg.
- teh Dork Knight aka Kenny
Im more surprised the Animal Rights People havent been more vocal of this cartoon ,,, like someone said its a CARTOON .. if anything more focus should be on the woman that is suffering in hospital , with near critical injurys after 7 hours of surgery ,,,
- johnpiercy
The NY Times coverage on this cartoon here: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...
- Thomas Hawk
I understand if you don't want to attempt to justify your accusation Dean. I've heard that statement before, it just wasn't on friendfeed.
- Richard Lawler
love all the people who are trying to downplay this incident by casting it off as (political) "satire," use their own experience(s) of being targeted in a racist manner at some point in their lives by someone of colour or even insisting that those who are offended by this image are wrong and that they are the ones who are actually missing the point. you all kill me. please get your heads out of your asses
- Cee Bee
Cee Bee, President Obama didn't write the bill. This cartoon has NOTHING to do with him.
- Mattb4rd
I understand there's a lot of ways to interpret this but isn't this all a bunch of meta? Perhaps the conversation should be about the actual stimulus bill. It's like arguing about the flag when the real conversation is about freedom.
- AJ Kohn
Regardless of the fact that monkeys can be construed as racist, and the fact that we have a black president, there is no way to know for sure what the intent here was since there was actually a mad chimp recently shot down by police. Basically, you make your own truth. In the end, does it matter? Are you going to do something about it? I, personally, don't think it was intentionally racist.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Mattb4rd - i'm aware obama didn't write the bill. regardless, obama pushed it and campaigned for this stimulus bill and in many people's eyes, it's practically one in the same. i think anyone would be naive to miss the implication of this imagery -- imagery that holds a very negative historical connotation with a lot of people in this country. my gripe is how some people are dictating how those who are offended by this image and message should really feel as if their viewpoints are null and void.
- Cee Bee
Wow heard about the cartoon and figured it was much ado about nothing, but after seeing it, um yeah, that's racism as far as i was raised. I would flip through the comments for the rationale behind trying to make it not so but i'm guessing it would make me feel worse for our country than i already do.
- Steve C
Cee Bee. I can agree with that. There's at least one poster in this thread that has implied that white people cannot opine about racism because they are white and therefore racist by birth. (?)
- Mattb4rd
It felt racist to me the minute I saw it.
- Rick Cogley
Funny how nobody was ever offeneded by the Bush is a chimp industry, http://www.google.com/search... where you will find 8 Million results and countless images of Bush pictures morphing into a chimp.
- Brian
“fed to take equities as collateral ... hope all taxpayers get upside with this historical investment decision (1st time ever) - redzone” - http://friendfeed.com/e...
just short of nationalization, even temporary a la Scandinavian countries in the 1990s or in fits and starts a la Japan, there should be no hesitation to engage in understanding just what is being debated ... certainly makes for appropriate discourse on owning this problem to assure a secure future for our descendants
- Scott Moskowitz
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