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'Mummi' Thorisson › Comments

Cameron Neylon
RT @ORCID_Org: ORCID seeks full-time Executive Director: http://t.co/ftXNolTD
oof. that'll be a tough job. - RepoRat
Yes, but arguably one right at the centre of where a lot of stuff will be happening... - Cameron Neylon
maybe. if Google Scholar Citations doesn't eat their lunch first. - RepoRat
Nah, don't see it happening. GS have no interest in providing an API which really limits its wider applicability. They're focussed on the single user scenario not the ecosystem as far as I can tell. Now Microsoft Academic Search if they get their data sorted out are a different issue. - Cameron Neylon
question is whether faculty give a tinker's damn about "wider applicability." My guess is they don't. That said, Google is not infallible; they may lose interest in Citations before faculty actually manage to, y'know, *notice it*. - RepoRat
man, I wish I had anything close to the qualifications / experience for this post. But, would rather build & tinker w/ stuff anyway. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Frankly, I think the down-the-line prospects of integrating third-party information from authoritative sources w/ self-reported profile info will be key in the long run - GS and others not doing that kinda stuff at all. (in other words, phase 2 advanced functionality, see http://www.orcid.org/documen...). - 'Mummi' Thorisson
I think that's the point with ORCID is that that "wider applicability" will pull in the institutional players who will then provide the incentives that bring in faculty. Well that's the theory anyway. Easy for that process to be mismanaged. - Cameron Neylon
Or just not happen for reasons management can't control. Honestly, if I were ORCID I'd talk about selling myself to CrossRef. Those folks seem to be able to make these things work, y'know? - RepoRat
@RepoRat Note that big, big emphasis placed on ORCID *not* become a CrossRef (run by association of publishers, looks after their interests), and rather be cross-community initiative (see http://www.orcid.org/partici...). The only way this will ever work. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Says who? How many "cross-community initiatives" actually make it in the real world? I'm a little o.O at the CrossRef hate anyway; whose puppy did they kill? - RepoRat
@RepoRat suppose it depends on one's definition of "doing it": i) build the darn thing technically and 'make it work', or ii) gain trust of whole community and be successful. NB I am not at all of the 'CrossRef hate' inclination (quite the contrary!), but this is about much more than making some 'DOIs for people'. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Again, I'm bewildered why anybody thinks CrossRef *can't* "gain trust of whole community and be successful." I'd trust them quite a bit more than I trust a random collection of stakeholders, because CrossRef has a successful track record and because everyone knows the definition of a committee. (And I'm usually the FIRST person to be jaundiced about anything publishers do -- but CrossRef has usually managed to tell them off when they needed telling.) - RepoRat
My view from the outside is that if (when?) ORCID is successful it will be in no small part because of the successful application of the experience of building CROSSREF and how that has been applied. Involvement of Ed Pentz and Geoff Bilder has been pretty critical. - Cameron Neylon
Geoff Bilder is a total mensch. I am a huge fan of his, have been for years -- and not just because he gave me my first chance at presenting to an international audience. - RepoRat
He's been acting as CTO. Unfortunately he doesn't seem interested in staying on...and I don't think he wants the CEO job either...But to add to what Mummi was saying, the point is that there is a concern that this not be seen as a purely publisher driven initiative and that was one of the reasons for not doing it via CrossRef, but also because getting it through the CrossRef board would have slowed things down as it is outside their remit. - Cameron Neylon
I am just sad it takes so much time to implement this. It is easily over 5 years that we have been talking about unified authors IDs in online forums. I remember a discussion on Nodalpoint at some point on this (http://archive.nodalpoint.org/node... ~7 years ago) and at the time it felt that it was so obvious that it would come soon after. - Pedro Beltrao
Pedro, I agree fully. but it's the same for most things. Around 14 years ago I started of in semantic technologies in chemistry... - Egon Willighagen
Björn Brembs
Why would you pay to get published? - http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/resolve...
Hahahaha... funny story! - Egon Willighagen
Don't feed the trolls. - Noel O'Boyle
I was going to make a sarky comment given I can't access it but I did wonder whether there was more to article than just a disingenous claim that publishing with them was "free" or whether there was a joke buried in there somewhere? - Cameron Neylon
Good quote: "It seems doubtful that lack of access to their articles represents a sufficiently widespread concern to motivate authors publishing in OA journals" - Jason Snyder
What happens when everyone has gone open access but there's still all that good, old research published in subscription journals? Can libraries download entire digital archives prior to ending their subscriptions and make them available once they no longer pay the bill? Or might for-profit publishers continue to attract subscriptions long after they've become unpopular, just because people want/need access to the classic papers? - Jason Snyder
Email the author and ask for a reprint? - Egon Willighagen
wow... - Kubke
I'd love to see libraries get together and collaboratively write an application that downloads every single article each library has access to and build a large database of the scientific literature. - Björn Brembs
+100 Björn - Graham Steel
Jason - it depends on the subscription. Some licenses allow us to keep locally owned copies of content. Also anything that's in the public domain can be digitized and hosted. Bjorn - I doubt we (libraries) could write an application like you decribe for collecting journal article content. LOCKSS is a network that allows people to share (sort of) and Hathitrust has collected digital... more... - Elizabeth Brown
@Elizabeth: I think starting with the content where local copies are allowed by the license would be a good start. That should include all print subscriptions, be definition. One may successively widen the scope of such a database using fair-use and trying to create precedent as well as by support from science funders and eventually legislation. Creating awareness of the problem and initiating action would already go a long way, as far as I'm concerned. - Björn Brembs
Bjorn, thanks for responding. The problem is that the print content is part of the electronic license, so it can't be treated separately. Most, if not all of those articles are owned by the publishers. We can lend a print copy by ILL (using the first sale doctrine) but we don't have the same first-sale rights for electronic materials. I'm refering to US copyright law which is different... more... - Elizabeth Brown
Am halfway through with your post but need to run. Real quick: I was trying to say that libraries which have a print copy, already have a local copy. It will be hard to argue against local digital copies. - Björn Brembs
Ontario has done more-or-less what Bjorn is suggesting with our Scholars Portal Journals database. It has 20+ million article and is very easy to use. We've essentially negotiated our licenses with publishers to allow us to own and locally host the database. The good news is that it's an amazing resource, particularly for ugrads looking for "good enough." The bad news is that it leaves... more... - John Dupuis
Thanks for mentioning initiatives in Canada. In the US most licenses are negotiated at the campus (sometimes system level), and it seems to be harder to negotiate the access you describe. Another major licensing issue that comes up is ILL use - some of the ebook and e-journal licenses don't allow for ILL lending. Once this use is prohibited it's hard to negotiate back into a contract. - Elizabeth Brown
That's excellent, John! Now other libraries would have to do similar things and (as much as legally possible) get the databases interoperable. The proof of concept would already be enough to push for next steps, IMHO. - Björn Brembs
I agree with you Bjorn that the database interoperabilty should come soon. The biggest roadblock is getting standards in place and persuading publishers it's OK to do this. I still see the silo mentality in full force. - Elizabeth Brown
Bjoern Have quoted you in my blog http://blogs.ch.cam.ac.uk/pmr... . Do you have a formal reference about publishers negotiating impact factors? - peter murray-rust
@brembs Fantastic dissection, give us more of the same plz. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
@peter: the PLoS Medicine reference in the talk is as formal as it gets. The Current Biology example is just pulled from the ISI website. - Björn Brembs
speaking of downloading every single article a library has a subscription to, check out what can go wrong: http://kottke.org/11... - Jason Snyder
peter murray-rust
"Disruptive action in scholarly publishing [...] hopefully legal" love it! I'm along for the ride! - Björn Brembs
@BB thanks. We will work this out and I think Open Bibliography is the starting point - peter murray-rust
some Canadian universities - led by UPEI, I think - are creating an open citation index.... not sure how far along they are with it - Christina Pikas
If it's k4all I am afraid there is very little current progress. A vision, but not an implementation or content - peter murray-rust
Nice one: "IFs are per journal. This about as meaningful a measure of worth as deciding that a person is well-dressed because they shop at a given store. You can be badly dressed with expensive cloths and vice versa. ". Might just borrow this analogy for a future presentation..... - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Heather Piwowar
I'm looking forward to the JISC Managing Research Data Programme Workshop in Birmingham UK in March. Will I see you there? http://www.jisc.ac.uk/whatwed...
Just booked my flight. w00t! - Heather Piwowar
Yuu'll definitely be seeing me there! - Cameron Neylon
Please say hello to Torsten Reimer from me when you're there! - Björn Brembs
I did not know about this. Birmingham is definitely do-able. - science3point0
Cool! Mark, hope you can make it. - Heather Piwowar
Will be there too. Looking forward to it! Only ~45min drive from my house in Leicester. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Truly devastated that I cannot come to this. Who is going to fly the FigShare flag? :) and the website says nothing about documenting sessions/streaming. If anyone wants me, I will be drowning my sorrows at #sameAs.us - science3point0
I can mention figshare. Supposed to be saying something intelligent for ten minutes which is always tough when following Heather so going a bit off piste is probably a good plan. - Cameron Neylon
Cameron, you're listed ahead of me on the schedule. I'm the one who is in trouble :) I'll try to tweet the sessions. - Heather Piwowar
Oh well in that case you better go first because you've got something sensible to say! - Cameron Neylon
I'm getting into Birmingham UK this Sat night. Anyone up for walking/talking/eating Sun or on Mon am? - Heather Piwowar
Any plans to head into London whilst you're here? - Dan Hagon from Android
Alas not this trip, it is too short. But I'll be in London May 6-14th. Are you around then? - Heather Piwowar
I wish... but it's a bit beyond my budget. I'm looking forward to hearing about it! - Brian Westra
@ Heather, yes I shall be around for most of that time. Let me know if you have a free time slot as it would be great to meet up. - Dan Hagon
@Cameron. That would be fantastic, FigShare is a perfect 5 minute filler and great follow up to Dryad!... and any questions people have following your talk just point them in my direction. No prep needed whatsoever! :) But honestly, any shout outs would be greatly appreciated. @Heather, I'll be tweet stalking you on Monday then :) - science3point0
Martin Fenner
How to use Citation Typing Ontology (CiTO) in your blog posts - http://blogs.plos.org/mfenner...
Updated my Link to Link Wordpress plugin to now use a simplified version of CiTO. - Martin Fenner
You guys are doing cool things in WP... makes it tempting to change... - Egon Willighagen
Thanks Egon. I think that Wordpress is an excellent platform for scholarly tools. But we are just at the beginning. - Martin Fenner
Martin, this is fantastic, and thanks for the how-to post. Can't wait to see what is coming next. Looks like my days at hosted wordpress.com are coming to an end... - Heather Piwowar
@Egon @Heather - Come to S3.0 ;) - science3point0
Heather, what Mark said. I can also give you a blog at my testing site blogs.xartrials.org. - Martin Fenner
Also a good option, I have my own wordpress dev playground there :) - science3point0
I'm sold on this stuff already! I set up a free hosted site on wordpress.com to play around, but switchet to my own installation hosted elsewhere so I could play with plugins (which wordpress.com won't allow). I'll certainly give Martin's plugins a go shortly. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
PS I'm historically a Drupal (http://drupal.org) man through-and-through when it comes to building websites. But WP is such a nice, super-user-friendly toolkit for this sort of thing. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Mmm... has anyone spoken with the people from ResearchBlogging? I guess it should be part of the HTML snippet the create too.... - Egon Willighagen
Egon, I thought about this too. It makes a lot of sense to create the code ResearchBlogging needs with a Wordpress plugin. I will look into this when I start working on a plugin that creates a bibliography in March. - Martin Fenner
Deepak Singh
Discussing WordPress for Scientists - http://blogs.plos.org/mfenner...
At a time when I am considering moving from wordpress. Much as I like Wordpress and what Matt M has done, the lure of Jekyll is strong - Deepak Singh
Sorry Deepak ;). - Martin Fenner
With the amount of inertia with my blog, you never know - Deepak Singh
Alright Martin. You win. Your tireless Wordpress propaganda has convinced me to give it a shot for my own site! I'm normally very pro-Drupal, but WP may suit me better after all. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Besides, gives me a chance to, perhaps, work some ORCID integration into WP in due time, via a plugin. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Mummi, my "Contact Info Options" plugin stores additional info about Wordpress authors, including affiliation, ORCID, Mendeley and of course Twitter and Facebook. - Martin Fenner
Björn Brembs
Reputation management in the age of the world-wide web - http://www.citeulike.org/user...
Trends in Cognitive Sciences, Vol. 14, No. 11. (03 November 2010), pp. 482-488. The reciprocal interactions with others that play such a significant part in our lives depend upon trust; individuals need to be confident that their partners are cooperative, and that they will return favours. Reputation permits the choice of better partners and provides incentives to be more cooperative. These uses of reputation are not unique to humans. However, in complex human societies, with large numbers of potential partners, keeping track of each other's reputation is a vital part of everyday life, and, in an inevitable arms race, ever more powerful strategies of reputation management are being developed. In this article, we bring together insights from different disciplines to throw new light onto the importance and scope of reputation management. Claudio Tennie, Uta Frith, Chris Frith - Björn Brembs
Interesting. Today I submitted a paper that talks about reputation and trust in the context of author identifiers. - Martin Fenner
Maybe it's worth citing this one in the revision... - Björn Brembs
No access ... - Martin Fenner
A couple more interesting articles on this topic (also relevant to Martin's paper, see http://ff.im/wcBBZ): i) reputation on eBay and Wikipedia - Ubois, J. Online reputation systems. Release 1.0. 2003;21:1-33. http://cdn.oreilly.com/radar... ii) reputation & identity in peer review - Frishauf P. Reputation systems: a new vision for publishing and peer review. J Participat Med.... more... - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Should I send it to you, Martin? - Björn Brembs
Yes please. And thank you for the links Mummi. - Martin Fenner
Björn Brembs
Mr. Gunn
[Big News!] NIH to use ORCID as Author Identifier. (via @orcid_org) - http://www.weopenid.org/press-r...
has anything happened since this article in September? - Jennifer Melinn
Not AFAIK, but I just saw it tweeted today, so perhaps ask Martin? - Mr. Gunn
The follow-up meeting mentioned in the press release hasn't happened yet. - Martin Fenner
Good news all the same - at least given that before NIH was not playing ball at all (if I remember correctly). - 'Mummi' Thorisson
I hope that there is more to report at the next ORCID Participant meeting November 18 in London. - Martin Fenner
Julien Sicot
Another researcher index? ReaderMeter looks to answer with Mendeley - http://www.mendeley.com/blog...
Interesting. But as they themselves note the tool is limited by, obviously, duplicate publication entries in the Mendeley collection + ambiguous author names. The engine "queries the data provider's API for articles matching a given author string". I am not going to bother paying much attention to any of these tools unless there at least *some* basic attempt at resolving author names. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Cameron Neylon
Ok crowd-sourced proposal time. Topic: Research Metrics. Aim: Develop and deploy credible metrics frameworks that encourage "open" behaviours. Value: $30k. Go.
More precisely: I have an agenda, some ideas, and a possible line on about this amount of money. Am interested in any ideas on how most effectively to create change with about this resource and anyone who is interested in taking part (with the caveat that this is not a whole lot of money if it gets split a lot of ways). - Cameron Neylon
Particularly interested in bringing existing projects/initiatives together to maximise effect. I'm aware of a range of things going at the moment but would appreciate pointers to any others. - Cameron Neylon
Quite. More downstream funding might be possible if there was demonstrated value out of the "pilot" or whatever it might be. There are a bunch of JISC funded projects that are sort of, but not really, in this area at the moment (they are focussed on citation) so that's another place to start. - Cameron Neylon
Do we have any existing examples of metrics that encourage open behaviors? - Mr. Gunn
Well I would argue that re-use metrics (downloads, data citation) push in the right direction. I couldn't point to hard evidence to support that tho. - Cameron Neylon
Perhaps the pilot could be to gather such evidence? - Mr. Gunn
Thomson-Reuters shares went down hard in the last 26 minutes. - pn
@D Peter Binfield has talked about Google Analytics style tools provided by a third party to do cross publisher ALMs. Something I always thought was an interesting idea. It could at least provide a consistent way of dealing with that kind of gaming? - Cameron Neylon
@Mr Gunn: It would be difficult to do that prospectively in the time frame of a small grant. Can you think of clean examples which could be looked retrospectively? Key issue is actually persuading funders to adopt something of course. - Cameron Neylon
@Paulo: Don't worry, my next idea will take out Pepsi... - Cameron Neylon
No idea how you'd do it but what I'd really like is to understand _why_ someone downloaded something. Was it for the figures, a specific piece of data, or for the beauty of the whole work... - Cameron Neylon
It's that or some sort of single use citation token as Claudia (I think) suggested at one point. Either would likely lead to bias anyway... - Cameron Neylon
Dorothea - Have you looked at the PIRUS2 and MESUR projects? They are looking measuring usage statistics from mulitple locations (PIRUS) and assesing quality of content (MESUR). They already have done a lot of preliminary work. I would suggest usage metrics as they both argue usage happens earlier in the research cycle than citations. Is there a way to look at any open behavior at the grant application stage, like this thread? That's even earlier in the research process. - Elizabeth Brown
Cameron, if I could think of a way to do something like that retrospectively, I'd already be doing it ;-) Agreed that usage metrics are the way to go, though, to move upstream from citations. - Mr. Gunn
Interested that no-one yet has explicitly brought up the issue of data that metrics are based on... - Cameron Neylon
@Mr Gunn, yes but how far upstream do you think it is possible/sensible to go? - Cameron Neylon
Hate to say it, but I think your funding is short a few zeroes. If this were something you could do for $30K, PLoS or BMC or even Thomson Reuters would already have done it. But so as not to be all negative all the time: how about expanding Heather Piwowar's work on data re-use? The aim would be to compare the rewards (citations, collaborations, etc) reaped by open, re-usable datasets... more... - Bill Hooker
It's alright. I'm not proposing to tie up all the loose ends for this kind of sum. Although I would say that in many cases PLoS/BMC don't have that kind of spare cash just sitting about to do something different. Question to my mind is how to make the most difference with that kind of amount...not necessarily to solve the problem. - Cameron Neylon from twhirl
The question with this kind of thing is always how best to take a small amount and multiply it with existing funds that other people already have... - Cameron Neylon
In that light, I think my dataset idea looks a little better: you might be able to tie in to what Heather is doing now. The real trick would be to get a few *more* related efforts coming together under the same roof. - Bill Hooker
Certainly I'd be pretty happy with building a reference dataset of data citations and/or uses. - Cameron Neylon
I agree that a) this is a very important issue, and b) $30k is not a lot of money. I would use the money to talk to the stakeholders (researchers, institutions, funders, publishers, vendors) - and that would include Thomson Reuters - and write a report that summarizes the key issues and comes up with a set of recommendations. On a very small scale I have started to do just that (Cameron knows about this). - Martin Fenner
Agree with the talk to stakeholders. Less sure about the writing of reports...but that's maybe a personal bias...as a focus for discussion yes, but as an end in itself? But definitely agree that engaging the relevant people is critical. There is no point building/writing about anything that doesn't serve the needs of those whose metrics will be taken seriously by researchers... - Cameron Neylon
Reports indeed have a bad track record. Maybe principles and action points? - Martin Fenner
A set of agreed principles would be a very interesting outcome if it were feasible. Action points seems easier but then actually turning them into action becomes the challenge... - Cameron Neylon
About citations of data and other open science outcomes like code, can current citation metrics make a separate count for numbers of citations of data and code as opposed to articles? Is there some agreed meta-data field that indicates something is data rather than an article? If someone wants to reward open science, then we need to be able to count and aggregate open-sciency citations. - Alex Holcombe
Yes, progress being made on citing data but citing data within a publication rather than the publication itself is some way off. And citing code is still pretty rare (partly because "publishing" code is still pretty rare). Martin and Mummi did a nice double act at Science Online London looking at the use of ORCID to mix and match data and paper citations. - Cameron Neylon
I would suggest to talk the David Shotton (Oxford) on CiTO, and get citation types into the equation... and develop a simply H-index-like thing that is weighted for citation types... type: usesMethodIn -> large positive for H'-index... if type: refutes -> negative (or really small positive) on H'-index... - Egon Willighagen
To my mind the best thing would be a pilot where you pay for (part of) a person or student to piggyback on an established database with appropriate data sets (at EBI, for example, this would be something like PRIDE or ArrayExpress) and track downloads then provide example chunks of end-of-grant-style reports of impact and write a paper or three on it (one on mechanics, one with submitters, one forward-look), etc. - Chris from twhirl
This could then make for a nice proof-of-concept thing to drag in some real money. - Chris from twhirl
I think it's reasonable to go up to the level of the individual experiment, but not sure how possible it is. I really do like the idea of looking at the qualities of a citation, rather than just the A cites B model. - Mr. Gunn from YouFeed
interesting. thinking. fwiw, I have a research proposal drafted and submitted, proposing to lay groundwork on patterns of data citation and reuse tracking. Might could be synergistic? Submitted for what is supposed to be a double-blind review process, so in an attempt to make it ungoogleable I'll just put a link here: https://docs.google.com/documen... - Heather Piwowar
I also have a large set (11k) of "data creation" papers whose citations we could follow, examining for data reuse patterns and citation benefit of sharing. Totally agree on CiTO. Ideally would supplement with data creation papers in other fields/datatypes too, to illustrate differences across fields and datatypes. Not easy, but have some methods. Also, could work with GEO and... more... - Heather Piwowar
That is a great proposal. Wish I were reviewing it... - Chris from Android
Made me think of something that might be complementary: to interview a set of data producers who have submitted somewhere about their attempts to make their data traceable, to claim credit in subsequent funding proposals, and how they think that played out. And ideally, to then revisit those applications with the funders to whom they were submitted. - Chris from Android
I think anyone submitting a proposal like those above should look at the MESUR project in particular- they've already looked at usage stats and compared this to article citations to estimate the quality of work. Some of the questions above have already been answered. My question is, can a list of open behaviors be clearly identified? I think that might be more challenging than the metrics, since most of the tools are evolving so quickly. - Elizabeth Brown
MESUR definitely high on my list (as is PIRUS now) and will also talk to Carl Bergstrom as well. Also liking Chris and Heather's comments. - Cameron Neylon from twhirl
I would like to extend something like http://wikidashboard.appspot.com/ (plus http://orcid.org/ - once workable) to contexts like http://www.science3point0.com/coasped... . Might solve the on-wiki part of the problem. - Daniel Mietchen
Are you crowd-sourcing tips/pointers/suggestions for your own proposal or are you asking people to contribute directly to a 'community' proposal (via google docs for example), with the intention that people who contribute to the grant get a slice of the funding ? - Greg Tyrelle
Greg, A bit of both. I have my own ideas and want to make sure I haven't missed anything obvious but also am looking to try and form a network of people to take this forward in some form. I'll move onto an online document in the next few days to which people are welcome to contribute with the idea of taking part. Bottom line is that at this level there won't be money for much beyond maybe travel/meetings and one FTE for a couple of months. - Cameron Neylon
My basic idea is meeting with stakeholders followed by hacksession "sandpit" out of which the group decides to fund someone already in post to be extended to take most promising aspects a bit further. Open minded as to whether that aspect might be liberated data, some sort of mashup, or a protocol/framework, or a document. - Cameron Neylon
Would love to participate. Sounds interesting. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Throwing my $0.02 worth into the pool: how about considering also attribution and metrics for less granular contributions than papers/datasets: e.g. output of curator activities, or 'nano-publications' mined from the literature? (http://www.nbic.nl/uploads... http://laikaspoetnik.wordpress.com/2010... ) - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Would certainly very much like to do that in the longer term. Keep it as a longer term target that any thing that gets built needs to be open to? - Cameron Neylon
Agreed. Try and keep the concept of 'contribution' that one gets credit for (and can ideally be formally cited) quite open-ended. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
First GDoc version: https://docs.google.com/documen... It's light on actual substance at the moment but that is kind of deliberate. - Cameron Neylon
Can't edit. :) - Andrew Lang
Ok, fixed the editing problem I think. I ticked the wrong box! :-/ - Cameron Neylon
What D said; I can't think of any substantive changes to suggest. Success will, of course, depend on picking the right people to be at the initial workshop... - Bill Hooker
Absolutely - so phase II - who wants to be involved, who should be involved? Already some good suggestions above. This will necessarily be UK centric but hopefully not entirely so. - Cameron Neylon
Just made some edits. I find two points missing: (1) If funders were to allow for public peer review of (at least some) proposals, the re-use of such proposals and reviews would provide a good use case, and probably be of interest to the funders. (2) As already mentioned above, wikis have solved much of the problem already (... more... - Daniel Mietchen
Agreed. But I would say this proposal is positioned to ask funders what they want first. Not for us to tell them what they should do. On the timeframe of this grant persuading any UK funder to do public peer review is a non-starter. In terms of Wikis, yes as a framework there is a lot there, but as you say the problem is you'd have to bring that content in because getting people to use them is difficult. But as you say the COASPED project would be a good example of the kind of thing that could be done. - Cameron Neylon
So tldr: yes they're good points but they're kind of deliberately not the focus because the intention is to be open ended as to what will come out the other end. - Cameron Neylon
Fair enough. I would like to be involved, but if it has to be via the UK, perhaps @science3point0 would be the best way to do that - would this counts as a "Infrastructure Organization"? - Daniel Mietchen
Sorry for arriving late to the conversation, I've been dipping out, but I'd like to reaffirm Daniels sentiments and would happily offer S3.0 be It as a hosting service to the proof of principle or to act as an infrastructure organisation, either in it's current format or in a tailor made format for those involved, closed group etc - science3point0 from iPhone
Cameron Neylon
Scribd now requires login and are charging for downloads. Should we move e.g. Beautiful Data Chapter to Nature Precedings? http://pbackwriter.blogspot.com/2010...
absolutely - Graham Steel
I have no problem with people making money off a service but the whole point of putting things there for us was to make them freely available. I've no time to do this this week tho so will try to do it over weekend... - Cameron Neylon
Bummer. Wonder if this would be bad news for us too - the document content-type in the Drupal CMS uploads/retrieves info from scribd.com. Example: http://bit.ly/9r76Y8 - 'Mummi' Thorisson
@Neil The embedded PDF/ Word/etc. functionality we've found quite useful, and the Drupal ipaper module makes this pretty easy to set up. The scribd.com site itself is of little relevance. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
I don't use scribd much, but unlike Neil, like the way it sets things out. One work around is to use posterous - see http://jobadge.posterous.com/can-you... - Jo Badge
I stopped using Scribd about a year ago after my account got suspended for copyright infringement ;-) I use Posterous now instead. - Graham Steel
Apparently this is yet another one of those "we're going to just do this and let people opt out if they want to" things. The mistake they made here was not getting the word out enough in advance for people. - Mr. Gunn
From the link: "Evidently all the money they've been raking in from the Google ads they've posted on my e-book pages hasn't been enough for them." I think this is key -- you don't actually rake in money from online advertising unless you're FaceBook or Kos. It seems as though a lot of people who started with blithe assumptions about paying for everything with advertising are finding they have to make some hard decisions. - Bill Hooker
you can add documents to Slideshare too. - Elizabeth Brown
SlideShare requires a login to download the documents too :-/ - Noel O'Boyle
Damn - hadn't noticed that. Might be a weekend of submitting things to Nature Pre... - Cameron Neylon
wow that is pretty annoying - I put a copy on slideshare http://www.slideshare.net/jcbradl... - Jean-Claude Bradley
Also just submitted to Nature Precedings - all authors should get email alert - let me know if you don't as this has failed in the past - Jean-Claude Bradley
Thanks D - it found Drexel's 2 repositories - Jean-Claude Bradley
kewl :) - Graham Steel
Martin Fenner
We're officially a non-profit! Announced today, ORCID initiative is now ORCID, Inc http://www.orcid.org/node/166 (via http://friendfeed.com/orcid...)
I hope that ORCID becomes more visible by becoming a non-profit organization. And with a board of directors you now have people you can contact with questions or suggestions. Please do. - Martin Fenner
Splendid. And congratulations on the appointment on the board, Martin! http://www.orcid.org/board-d... - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Finally some movement on that front! - Björn Brembs
Congratulations, Martin! So sorry I will be in Milan at ESMO when you are next over here :( - Sally Church
Jennifer Melinn
#solo10 no widely used method to cite/ identify /link datasets.
One of my favorite tricks is to convert a dataset to a pdf and submit to Nature Precedings - that way you get a DOI, author list, user comments, automatic entry into Google Scholar, etc. And if you link from NP to your data in a more organized way (e.g. Google Spreadsheet) you get all the benefits of the pdf without the significant downside of using it exclusively to share data. - Jean-Claude Bradley
Nice. Do you have to wrap it with much descriptive text, or do they accept it even if just straight data? - Heather Piwowar
It seems like there are people working on repositories with the right kinds of metadata, but the entry in google scholar is an interesting twist. I think involvement would definitely increase if there was better n - Jennifer Melinn from iPod
Name recognition. (this device I'm working on is pants, sorry.) - Jennifer Melinn from iPod
Heather they are converted to a book format with a preface explaining the dataset http://precedings.nature.com/documen... http://precedings.nature.com/documen... - Jean-Claude Bradley
@Jennifer Ah, the 'pants' thing - thanks for introducing me to a very interesting use of this word at #solo10! #pants - should a topic of a discussion thread all by itself.. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
@Mummi If the whole #solo10 community starts using it, then I'll feel well accomplished. Using it as a hashtag would be a great way to get a stream of everything that needs serious improvement too. It could actually be a useful tool. - Jennifer Melinn
'Mummi' Thorisson
Fwd: New blog post: ORCID session at #solo10 and other important #orcid news http://blogs.plos.org/mfenner... (via http://friendfeed.com/mfenner...)
"ORCID as unique author identifier: what is it good for and should we worry or be happy? - This was the title of the session with Geoff Bilder, Gudmundur Thorisson and myself at the Science Online London Conference (http://www.scienceonlinelondon.org/program...) last Saturday." - 'Mummi' Thorisson
@Martin Excellent writeup. I just put my slides on Slideshare too (http://slidesha.re/dqjO0F) and filed undir 'orcid' (http://www.slideshare.net/tag...). - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Thanks a lot Mummi. I've added the link to your Slideshare presentation. Embedding the presentations would be nicer, but I couldn't get that to work on the new blog. - Martin Fenner
Cameron Neylon
Warning: Misusing the journal impact factor can damage your science! - http://cameronneylon.net/blog...
I had a bit of a rant at a Science Online London panel session on Saturday.As usual when discussing scientific publishing the dreaded issue of the Journal Impact Factor came up. While everyone complains about metrics I've found that people in general seem remarkably passive when it comes to challenging their use. Channeling Björn Brembs more than anything else I said something approximately like the following. - Cameron Neylon
"...as professional measurers and analysts of the world we should be embarrassed to use JIFs to measure people and papers. It is quite simply bad science." Hear, hear! - Bill Hooker
Totally OT - I would gladly pay to watch Aussies, Bill and Cameron play tennis (other games may be applicable) and all the proceeds be donated to a worthy cause. #anyonefortennis? - Graham Steel
Ironically enough, just yesterday I filled in a form required for an application for a professorship, where they wanted to know how many papers I had in which IF journals. Should I be interviewed, this particular position would be so important for me, that for the first time ever, I would probably not say anything about this embarrassing use of the IF, which would normally disqualify them as employers immediately. - Björn Brembs
Björn, was that Göteborg? I was trying to find the details, but they are apparently using that as part of the officiel job application process... did not find those details yet, though... - Egon Willighagen
Now, and that makes it even more embarrassing, it was here in Berlin. When I interviewed in Uppsala I did not see any of this nonsense. If I get the professorship, you can be sure there'll be a lecture or two about IFs. And there will be figures with forms from certain universities... - Björn Brembs
This whole sad discussion reminds me: why isn't there a tool available, that allows people to construct their own citation list??? I've been doing this by hand for years now: http://bjoern.brembs.net/citatio... - Björn Brembs
Bjoern, have you tried PoP http://www.harzing.com/pop.htm? - Bill Hooker
Yes, I use it, but it only pulls from GS which is neither as user friendly nor as 'accurate' as WoS/Scopus. So I use all three, de-duplicate by hand, copy and paste into an HTML editor and format (also by hand). I don't know of any other way to do this. To stay on topic: I think this is currently the best way to replace IF counts when evaluating people: use actual citations. - Björn Brembs
In Poland JIF is used every single time scientists are evaluated (whether it's a grant or a new position). Also, quite often a lecturer on a science seminar is introduced with mentioning her/his "total IF points". We have also "ministry points" (from Ministry of Science). These are awarded in the same manner as IF - per publication (points are also awarded for writing a syllabus for a... more... - Pawel Szczesny
@Björn We're working on something with the intention of delivering this and PM-R has been arguing a lot recently for open citations and open metrics. - Cameron Neylon
I would have thought that using JIF in a job application process would open an organization up to being sued... - Cameron Neylon
@Pawel - that was kind of the basis of the prestige vs outcomes riff that I most recently wrote about in the interview with Michael. It's a perfectly reasonable decision for a country, particularly a small country to go for prestige as a way of making a mark. But they shouldn't expect that to lead to either a viable, stable, or particularly valuable research community. If you want those things then you need to optimise for them (which is harder to measure obviously, but most important things are) - Cameron Neylon
I was thinking the other day about changing my cv and instead of listing 'my publications' start listing the papers that cite my papers (first order) and those that cite those first order papers (second order)) (or some quantification of that sort based on 'order'). A visualization of it could be fun to do too. Then I start wondering whether I should wait until I am out of my continuation period .... - Kubke
@Kubke... agreed... if your research published in a low ranking journal but used significantly in Nature X publications, what JIF should you fairly take... should we perhaps make a black list of universities where JIFs are used? it seems that SHOUTING is the only way to get things changed these days... :( - Egon Willighagen
@Egon :) I am on the advisory board for creative commons Aotearoa New Zealand, and one thing that came up is that 'opening up' requires a serious change in assessment policies. One example: Lets say someone gets 1000 citations on nature preceedings (not peer reviewed) shouldn't that count more than zero or 1 citation on a 'peer reviewed' nature? Should we move from 'peer reviewed' to 'peer accepted'? - Kubke
Tres interesting, Kubke. >>> "Should we move from 'peer reviewed' to 'peer accepted'?" - Graham Steel
@Graham or 'peer uptake' - Kubke
And depending on who your peers are, we could have top peer, instead of top tier. - Noel O'Boyle
What if the citing papers all cite the paper to dismiss it, or because it was shown to be fraudulent? You'd need either a citation typology or he possibility to retract papers from the record, the latter being difficult in non-peer-reviewed archives. - Björn Brembs
@Cameron: Looking forward to that tool! - Björn Brembs
@Björn It's not so much the tool. That's pretty trivial. It's getting hold of the data that is the problem.... but that's what the project is about. - Cameron Neylon
Similar issue here as what Bjorn mentioned in the beginning: about to start a tenure-track, and one of the items on my checklist to be eligible for tenure in 5 yrs is "x papers/yr in a journal with IF >= y". Which obviously completely bypasses my open-source work... But at this point in my career there is nothing much that I can do. - Jan Aerts
I think there are two things I would say to that. One is don't assume that tenure process in 5yrs will look like tenure today. Things are shifting, slowly admittedly, and perhaps too slowly but they are shifting. "Impact" and demonstrated income potential will be very important, both of which your prominence in the Open Source community will help with. Secondly, yes you need some good... more... - Cameron Neylon
@Björn wrt. citation typology: here's a recent paper on this very topic: Shotton. CiTO, the Citation Typing Ontology. Journal of Biomedical Semantics 2010, 1(Suppl 1):S6 http://dx.doi.org/10... "..ontology for describing the nature of reference citations in scientific research articles and other scholarly works, both to other such publications and also to Web information resources, and for publishing these descriptions on the Semantic Web. .." - 'Mummi' Thorisson
@Mummi: nice! This sort of technology needs to be developed and incorporated in citation analyses are to progress. - Björn Brembs
Berci Mesko, MD
If your PhD supervisor moves abroad for a few months, what web tool/application/site would you recommend him that could help him manage the workflow of the lab, schedule online talks, see how things are going at home?
I'd recommend him to require you to keep a blog, source code repository, and be Open Notebook Science... shared Google calendar, blog planet for the lab. Group 'teams' for bookmarking services like Delicious, Mendeley/Connotea ... anything specific you are looking for? - Egon Willighagen
The lab team is not too web-savvy or web-based so there should be one site/app through which he can manage the workflow and not the lab (schedule meetings, marking milestones of PhD projects, follow developments, etc.) - Berci Mesko, MD
I'm sure it would be impossible to get everyone online, but he is a regular web user and is open to such things (in case I can find the right tool for this). - Berci Mesko, MD
Yes, the one site thing is important - things need to look integrated of have a single gateway at least. A blog that brings elements from other services into a central place could work well for this. Lots of good Wordpress plugins for creating content. Pull in IM/twitter feeds and get everyone to write a brief post at least once every second day. Use the comments for communication via... more... - Cameron Neylon
If you want a one-stop solution... I think a wiki is the best approach. - Egon Willighagen
You can also take the opportunity and lead the troops into the Web2.0 era, all in light of your PhD supervisor's ability to monitor things... - Egon Willighagen
Google groups is not bad. Especially if you email through that interface. You can store documents, have a calendar, edit a wiki, as well as have threaded messages. By leveraging email, your boss doesn't have to learn no "wiki" interface. - Bosco Ho
My supervisor uses Google Calendar for scheduling meetings (each of us will Skype him every second week) and the lab uses Google Groups for group e-mails but I wanted to centralize things somehow. - Berci Mesko, MD
Anyway, thank you for the great suggestions! - Berci Mesko, MD
I haven't tried it yet, but posterous has a group blog feature that might be useful for that. You just need one person to create the blog and add other collaborators' emails. With this set you (and everyone else) can send emails to a specific address to communicate and everything (including attached files) are aggregated into the blog. Might work for the not web-savvy since all you need is to write and reply emails. - Bruno C. Vellutini
how non-public do you want the exchanges to be, Berci? I mean: gpg-style wanted/needed? or are digital postcards fine? - Claudia Koltzenburg
Absolutely non public. - Berci Mesko, MD
Just check the CMS list for features you need and like, integration options with other tools might be one of the corner stones - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... As usual there is no one size fits all solution for all needs, so happy digging and taking it from there. Depending on the possible investment options you might find more information and insights out there. P.S.: I like Drupal, but are biased and not fully informed about other options ! - joergkurtwegner
Great list, thank you for sharing! - Berci Mesko, MD
Berci: also check out Open Atrium (http://openatrium.com), a pretty sleek intranet/collaboration-focused CMS based on Drupal. Our group is looking at this for a couple of projects in our group. Disclaimer: we're fairly Drupal-biased; we use it as a base for a production community portal site (http://www.gen2phen.org). Still, Atrium might make a great base for a group website and can be customized ad infinitum if desired. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Thank you, Mummi, for the suggestion! - Berci Mesko, MD
My lab uses 37signals' Basecamp to manage and monitor most of the daily activity (ordering reagents, sending out announcements, internal communications, etc). I'd highly recommend looking into it, as it's inexpensive and the learning curve is very small for those who are not very web-savvy. - Ben Ferguson from iPhone
You can make posterous non-public and it's pretty easy to just email things into posterous and let it handle it. Basecamp is another solution, but you'll have to pay for it for your level of use and it's not brain-dead easy like posterous (of course, you can do a lot more, like manage projects, with Basecamp but hey, a lesser tool people use is better a great one people don't, right?)... more... - Mr. Gunn
+1 Basecamp - John Hogenesch
'Mummi' Thorisson
Fwd: 'We Have Learned Nothing from the Genome': Venter - http://slashdot.org/submiss... (via http://friendfeed.com/slashdo...)
"Der Spiegel recently interviewed Craig Venter (founder of Celera, sequencer of most of the first human genome — his own) on his role in the Human Genome Project . Never one to mince words, Venter was quick to dismiss the project as practically useless: Venter: ...what else have I learned from my genome? Very little. We couldn't even be certain from my genome what my eye color was. Isn't that sad?... SPIEGEL: So the Human Genome Project has had very little medical benefits so far? Venter: Close to zero to put it precisely." - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Let's be honest, he is right... - Berci Mesko, MD
He's dead wrong, but then Craig is nothing but self serving. We've "learned" a lot and done a lot. Has it resulted in silver bullets? No, not even close and that isn't necessarily a bad thing - Deepak Singh
His comments are absurd. The HGP is a work in progress -- no one ever claimed that it would be over, and we'd have all the answers, once we got the first good draft. It's like claiming an expedition to climb Everest has made "close to zero" progress when they reach base camp -- there's a sense in which the claim is true, but it's meaningless. - Bill Hooker
There are dozens of drug candidates that are a direct result of the human genome project. The most obvious of these are protein therapeutics encoded by the genome and mined from it. The reason you haven't seen people jump up and down about this is it takes 14 years for a drug to go from idea stage to market and it's only been 10 years. - John Hogenesch
I would add, though, that knowledge of an individual's genome sequence isn't yet that useful. But, people are beginning to get some real use from it. Disease genes are being cloned based on individual genome sequences, drug response genes, etc., will follow. - John Hogenesch
Here's a much better take, from Jonathan Eisen: http://phylogenomics.blogspot.com/2010.... For instance, my "no one ever claimed" above is wrong -- part of the problem here is that people (very much including Venter!) did make over-reaching claims. - Bill Hooker
I see his comments a bit differently. Venter certainly has lots of "insider knowledge" (only a small portion of data produced in JCVI was ever released, and almost none of algorithms, including Synthetic Organism Designer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...). If you add that knowledge to a grand vision he has plus some self-serving, you get some absurd sounding... more... - Pawel Szczesny
One more thing - you need to include also some PR needed to secure a $600M deal with ExxonMobile ;) - Pawel Szczesny
Craig Venter may be more blunt than others (plus the magazine did a great job of using an out-of-context quote in the title), but is his assertion that most of the work is still ahead of us really all that controversial? - Eric Jain
No ... That part is right but saying nothing has been done is feeding the hordes and he knows it - Deepak Singh from iPhone
Geoffrey Bilder
Still, pedal straps are so 1990's. Once you're weaned on to a clipless, cleats-in-shoes system, there's no way back. I've used these for >3y now: http://www.crankbrothers.com/pedals_... . Downside: need special shoes which will take the cleats. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Precisely trying to avoid special shoes. They don't seem to make them in 6E width... - Geoffrey Bilder
Pierre Lindenbaum
check out the chat room! Everyone works for 25mins, chats for 5, works for 25... great way to keep plugging on things that you'd rather procrastinate on. Very supportive environment, phinished. Great advice there from other PhD finishers. 2 thumbs up. - Heather Piwowar
I'll have a look. Right now I would much prefer to throw nearly-finished Big Book in the ocean and go work as a fisherman or somesuch. But I suppose after 3 1/2 years, a couple of weeks more won't kill me. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Pierre Lindenbaum
Nice status report. My main question: who will 'own' my ORCID? Can I make the *record* available under CC0? - Egon Willighagen
Egon, this is one of many questions that are currently discussed. When you start thinking about this, it quickly gets complicated. - Martin Fenner
Well, we know how difficult Facebook is finding these matters... but do they really have to be that difficult? Making data non-public is certainly more difficult... (as you need to start thinking about authentication, etc...) why not just make the whole system CC0 from the start? And save you tons of money on security models and all the consultancy before you even start hacking? - Egon Willighagen
@Egon A lot of the information is public domain already, sure. But, ability to keep certain parts of one's profile non-public and offer flexible control over which bits of private info are share with whom (e.g. phone no., address) are key to making this thing fly from a privacy standpoint. And, it is not just about public vs private profile information, but also very much about... more... - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Sure, but these are just technical issues. Not fun ones, but one that people have been addressing for decades now... my point is, do it, and do it right: just make it a central part of the design: each field has a privacy tag *and* a license tag. Problem solved. If you worry about cost? Make it all Open Source, and have the community share that burden. Two problems solved. - Egon Willighagen
Are you guys also talking to the 'global' MediaWiki (Wikipedia) login people and Google? - joergkurtwegner
Jörg, not as far as I know. ORCID is not really about authentication, because that is a slightly different problem. ORCID aims for a business model that is very similar to CrossRef/DOI, e.g. an independent organization that gets funding from participants. I personally think that ORCID needs money, as building the infrastructure and maintaining the databases will cost money. - Martin Fenner
Geoffrey Bilder
Full-content RSS feeds harm page views, but not viewership - Boing Boing - http://www.boingboing.net/2010...
We will face the same issues with linked data. - Geoffrey Bilder
I can agree with one of the commenters (http://www.boingboing.net/2010...) that offering both full and summary-level/abbreviated feed content would be ideal, so users can choose the feed format that suits them. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
'Mummi' Thorisson
Nature paper: Complete Khoisan and Bantu genomes from southern Africa: data available preloaded into Galaxy for immediate analysis- http://main.g2.bx.psu.edu/bushman
As a Galaxy fan, I love this: "It is challenging to provide convenient access to the large and complex data sets resulting from the sequencing and analysis of a human genome. In addition to submitting data to standard repositories, we provide all data sets in an immediately useful form through the Galaxy bioinformatics platform (http://usegalaxy.org), a web application designed to integrate data with analysis tools. In addition to downloading, data sets can be transformed in a variety of ways and compared with existing annotations (see ‘Data and analysis user’s guide’ at http://galaxycast.org). The positions of the SNPs for each Bushman and ABT can be viewed in a customized installation of the UCSC Genome Browser (http://main.genome-browser.bx.psu.edu/), along with supporting evidence (number of reads for each allele and hyperlinks to the actual reads) and computationally predicted phenotypic consequences for SNPs in coding regions." - 'Mummi' Thorisson
(Supplement to Schuster et al. Complete Khoisan and Bantu genomes from southern Africa. Nature 463, 943-947 (18 February 2010) | http://dx.doi.org/10...) - 'Mummi' Thorisson
So is this going to be a test for Galaxy's servers? Is psu going to be slashdotted? I'll be having a rummage, so how many others... - Richard Badge from Nambu
Neil, please clarify: from reading this it seems to me that they *are* providing the data in a useful form, and so rising to the challenge. But you're saying that they aren't? I'm not following... - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Michael Barton
Are there any existing solutions for creating a generic DNA sequence database with a website front end? - http://stackoverflow.com/questio...
I was thinking of creating my own as a Ruby on Rails engine to hook into the lab's existing site. I don't want to reinvent the wheel though. - Michael Barton
instead of implementing your blast search on the server side, why about creating a web services to search and retrieve the sequences and then, people can submit it to whatever they want (taverna...) - Pierre Lindenbaum
Like create a web service, then wrap the webservice API in a website front end? - Michael Barton
Your web site would propose a set of web services: just like the NCBI (e-utils). Then people do whatever they want with your data. But you can also write with some interactive HTML forms. I like this idea of "generic DNA sequence database". - Pierre Lindenbaum
That's a good idea. It's what Neil was talking about on his blog this morning, about having a good API to bioinformatics web services. - Michael Barton
BioMart? - pn
I like the idea of a simple, generic database with web front-end that supports storing structured data, versioning it, searching it, and plugging in analysis tools (which might run local or remote via whatever API). - Eric Jain
Eric ... wouldn't we all. Doesn't happen too often though - Deepak Singh
@Paulo BioMart looks like a good option. GMOD was suggested in the answers on stack overflow. I think these would both have good APIs. - Michael Barton
There's several GMOD components which may help here, lots of wheels so probably no need to reinvent any. See overview at http://gmod.org/wiki/Overview, more specifically a couple of relevant bits are Tripal (Drupal front end to a Chado db http://gmod.org/wiki/Tripal), and GMODweb (http://gmod.org/wiki/GMODWeb) - 'Mummi' Thorisson
we had started on a similar venture way back and using the Gmod tools and a rails frontend. http://rubyforge.org/project... - george
'Mummi' Thorisson
Fwd: CrossRef joins ORCID initiative: Open Researcher & Contributor ID - http://www.crossref.org/01compa... (via http://friendfeed.com/mrgunn...)
"CrossRef is pleased to announce that it will be participating in the recently launched Open Researcher and Contributor ID (ORCID) initiative to create an unambiguous identifier for scholarly and professional researchers. Our members will be aware that CrossRef has been exploring the possibility of creating an “author DOI” or “contributor ID” system. In doing so, it has become clear that the issues and use-cases involved in identifying researchers span a broad collection of stakeholders including libraries, institutions, funders, publishers and, of course researchers themselves. In short, this is not primarily “a publisher problem.” As such, we believe that the ORCID approach to creating an inclusive and open organization representing all the stakeholders in the scholarly communications process represents the best chance of creating a successful contributor identification system" - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Absolutely fantastic news on the researcher/contributor ID front! - 'Mummi' Thorisson
For those who are new to the topic, this has has been discussed extensively on FF before and elsewhere. Couple of links which may be helpful for background reading: A specialist OpenID service to provide unique researcher IDs? http://ff.im/GbM8 http://blog.openwetware.org/science... http://network.nature.com/people... - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Finally, it was about time! Good. - Björn Brembs
But of course, D0r0th34! what else could this possibly be about!! !? :) [BTW apologies to fellow FriendFeeders who are not also Tolkien-fans and do not find this amusing at all.. ] - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Mmmkay, so now we have ORCID. Where do I sign up and claim my papers? - Björn Brembs
+1 D0r0th34 Maybe if you're lucky, they'll figure out a way to offload most of the workload to librarians ;-) - Mr. Gunn
+1 Björn, except I'm not so eager to sign up if it means letting people know that I'm an orc. :-) - Ruchira S. Datta
Mr. Gunn
An anonymous source has informed me that the ASCB has banned “replication of data” by visitors, but has presented Twitter as the poster child of conference data... - http://synthesis.williamgunn.org/2009...
Sad, just sad - Deepak Singh
I wonder if people are allowed to talk - Deepak Singh from IM
Natural selection in action. Either another set of organizers, or another conference, will take over as this one dies off. - Bill Hooker
What is the point of scientific conferences again? - 'Mummi' Thorisson
What was the point in science again? - Cameron Neylon
What was the point of life again? [descending into pessimism...and trip to the pub] - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Bill, another source reports that attendance seems way off this year from what it has been in the past. - Mr. Gunn
As I see it, the problem is one of copyright. All the biologists I know (and to a degree, myself included) are alright with presenting pre-publication data at a conference as long as it isn't digitally recorded or disseminated. If there were a way to enforce "first presentation rights", less people would worry about getting scooped and be more willing to share unpublished data. - Walter Jessen
It'd be nice if the talk were publicly available, either during or very soon after the talk. Then, this public record, combined with the tweets, blogs, etc. would provide pretty good evidence of who did the work and presented it first. At least for me it would. Even as it stands now, though, if scooping is a worry, it seems to me that allowing the audience to tweet & blog will make it... more... - Steve Koch
Walter, you might be right, but surely it has been disseminated in the form of conference abstract prior to someone tweeting about it. If they have copyright concerns, they're simply not understanding things. - Mr. Gunn
I disagree - abstracts are much different than data. I like Steve's idea .. let's get the status quo to swing in the opposite direction and make everything publicly available following conferences and meetings. - Walter Jessen
what is so harmful about having your research referenced by another? if it is cited, it can bring attention and acclaim to the original. if it is not properly cited, then that is itself the problem - Mike Chelen
Cameron Neylon
Nearly final version of collaborative proposal for a lightweight data management framework for submission in next few days.
Crud - sorry for the re-post folks, there was something in that version that shouldn't have been (and if anyone's downloaded the file and figured out what it is I'd appreciate it if you didn't spread it around - some details to be ironed out yet) - Cameron Neylon
Object lesson in not trying to bowdlerize documents too late at night. And that it is so much easier when _everything_ is public. But its not my thing to make public as yet...and no, I'm not moving jobs :-) - Cameron Neylon
We're thinking along similar lines to this (without Wave as yet) and trying to generate interest in Aus for a linkup with Jeremy Frey/PMR. Cameron if you wanted a remote experimental Chemistry partner let me know - our open science project officially starts tomorrow (!) for 3 years, so we'll start to generate data in Sydney we want to share. - Matthew Todd
Cool, JGF mentioned he'd been talking to you and I meant to follow up. If you're up for writing a letter of support that your interested in the project that would be very cool. I can do the same obviously for anything going in on your side. The more (diversity) the merrier, although we can't stump up for endless disk space for everyone so we might need to find a re-charging mechanism if... more... - Cameron Neylon
Sure, OK. Could you email me an address for the letter? m.todd@chem.usyd.edu.au. Data would be small size but lots of little files - mainly NMR/IR/MS. I'm guessing what you're proposing though would need installation of a little software on local computers attached to spectrometers. The institutional inertia is the problem there. - Matthew Todd
Yes, there has to be a widget installed on the computer from which the file gets copied one way or another and this could clearly be a problem in many cases. But one problem at a time. - Cameron Neylon
Side musing: How long does it take a researcher using method X to generate 1Tb of data? In microimaging, this may easily be a day, and some particle or astrophysics may be even faster. - Daniel Mietchen
Not long in many cases - images stack up pretty quickly. - Cameron Neylon
Looking good, Cameron, albeit judging from a really quick skim-through. Makes me want to work on this, in fact. - 'Mummi' Thorisson
I don't get out of bed for less than 1TB per day. An impending deluge of >1 PB that I'll have to manage does give me sleepless nights though :) - Dan Hagon
By the way - is AtomPub (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...) being considered for publishing & editing web resources via a Atom store back end? I don't know much about the Amazon cloud storage and apparently can't be asked to find out (!). RSS/Atom is a nobrainer for monitoring for updates obviously. But is content create/update perhaps all supposed to be done via Wave / XMPP? - 'Mummi' Thorisson
One practical issue which might be important to clarify is whether or not you'll be able to develop the Wave components on a local Wave federation server and/or robot server (I forget the exact terms used in the draft spec.). If you're looking at wave for rapid prototyping, especially of robots, having these in place from the start could be crucial to how far and how fast the you can get with the tools you intend to develop. - Dan Hagon
@Matthew interested to see how you get on; We've put our undergrad OS lab on hold, but my projects(equivalent to honours)/postgrads are waving whether they like it or not (and actually most of them seem to like it so far :>) - Anna Croft
@Mummi, AtomPub is an obvious approach but we don't want to tie ourselves down in advance. Certainly most likely contender so I should put it in though. @Dan, almost certainly on the central Wave server, which does mean we may end up with a performance hit I admit. Assuming that increases in performance combined with these being small waves in most cases will mean things are ok.... more... - Cameron Neylon
And I think this is the final version: Form here http://dl.dropbox.com/u... Case for support: http://dl.dropbox.com/u... Impact statement: http://dl.dropbox.com/u... - Cameron Neylon
That's had various bits taken out of it, specifically support from commercial partners and the financial details, as well as the names of suggested referees. - Cameron Neylon
....and its gone! - Cameron Neylon
'Mummi' Thorisson
One giant leap for Taverna: workflow: workflow construction workbench used by NASA's JPL in WS-infrastructure - http://www.omii.ac.uk/wiki...
"NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) created the first American satellite and are now using Taverna for their Web Services-based infrastructure.[..] One of the challenges faced by the research team is the integration of various models that are used to explore the science behind the JPL’s missions. These models have been developed independently and run on different platforms, so their integration is not straightforward. The JPL’s solution is to wrap each model as a Web Service and drive them with a Web Services-enabled workflow." [From the OMII-UK newsletter: http://www.omii.ac.uk/wiki...] - 'Mummi' Thorisson
'Mummi' Thorisson
Icelandic genomics firm goes bankrupt - http://www.nature.com/news...
"deCODE's demise leaves fate of its valuable genetic database unclear. After struggling financially for years, the genomics company deCODE, based in Reykjavik, Iceland, filed for bankruptcy on 16 November. The question now is whether other companies looking to commercialize genomics will follow the same path" - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Things looking gloomier than ever for my ex-employer back in the home country. :( - 'Mummi' Thorisson
Coverage from the Genetic Future blog: http://scienceblogs.com/genetic... - 'Mummi' Thorisson
'Mummi' Thorisson
Fwd: The Climate Modeling Leak: Code and Data Generating Published Results Must be Open and Facilitate Reproducibility - http://blog.stodden.net/2009... (via http://friendfeed.com/cameron...)
Yeah, I think I heard about that. Isn't that what they call science? That whole thing where you observe, guess, experiment, speculate, experment again, until you can reproduce results consistently and then you tell someone else who does the same thing with your data? - Aaron Kendrick
So I've heard! :! - 'Mummi' Thorisson
No. science is where you do what you can get funded which absolutely does not include replication checking or audits. None of which generate nature papers - Cameron Neylon from Android
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