@directeur Well race -- it's just a social construct. At the end of the day, we're all human, flesh and blood. Race is just a factor of the power imbalance in the world -- created along ethnic lines. - Shey
@Shey: I'm white but look at my avatar :) I have so much respect for every nice man/woman in this earth. The race things is because we "generally" have eyes. How do blind people "see" the race thing? See what I mean? :) - directeur via NoiseRiver
Blind people see the race thing just like everyone else really does, as a cultural values thing. Even blind people know glorifying living in the ghetto and pimpin' hos is probably not a good idea from a social context. - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
Awesome post, Shey. I'm glad people actually posted about this. - Rahsheen Porter
I had never seen the video at the end... doesn't surprise me though - Bwana McCall
I have to ask though; isn't this a year old why all the heat now? I had no idea who this guy was until Corvida and You posted about it. Maybe as a black bloggger it would only seem right if i expressed my 2 cents on it too - Gordon Swaby
Alexander's comment is exactly the problem racism yields. There is no "Black Culture" that glorifies "pimping hoes" or living in the ghetto. What you see on TV, and what is reality are not the same. The idea that Blacks have "lower cultural values" is at the core of racist ideology. - Jasmin Smith
Gordon, I never saw it recently either, literally a couple weeks ago. Blog away if you like :) - Shey
Key race is the human race! The rest is just details. - Mark Forman
Somebody apparently dug it up. Probably when they found out about the Verizon deal. I read somewhere that he had pissed of some other people before this, so they could possibly have had something to do with it. - Rahsheen Porter
One of the things I like about FriendFeed is that it proves Loren's video assertion (comical or otherwise) is untrue. That there are black nerds and bloggers and are adding to the conversation. It is very refreshing to me to hear from black people and women on the internet. I like to get a better sampling of "people" not middle-aged white men. All I need for that one is the mirror or listening to my own thoughts. - Mark Forman
Funny you should say that, Jasmin, because that's the culture black cultural entrepreneurs are selling. Look at urban culture in general and look to who produces it. Largely middle-class blacks from urban homes. If we can't expect they know what best sells to their home communities, who can we? - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
The comment I made on the Mashable post was that in competitive improv, we were taught never to go for the "easy" humor because it's not respectable and its not sustainable. All Loren Feldman has going for him is an easy laugh obtained from a sea of classless appreciators. He deserved to get this ripped away from him. - Jennifer Leggio
OK Alexander. Let's look at the So-Called Black Music Industry (Specifically hip hop/R&B. Who creates and markets it... white men... who buys it.. white kids... - Jasmin Smith
Well said Mark. I need to ask how long ago did he get the "verizion deal"? Because i was watching one of his videos where he was commenting on it and he lauded himself for getting the deal; seemed a tad bit excited, must have been a shame to lose it. - Gordon Swaby
@Shey, sadly racism is alive and well in America. Your post was spot-on. Bravos! - Dave Martin
I defy someone to find me another place - online or in the real world - that facilitates conversations like this about topics as sensitive as this. You find me a place where people regularly express the thoughts and ideas that have been expressed above about a topic like this and I will frequent it every bit as often as I do Friend Feed (ok maybe not EVERY bit - there are only so many hours in a day...) - Marco
Marco, absolutely - this is why I can`t stop blogging about FriendFeed :) - Shey
It would be good if my question was answered, please and thank you. - Gordon Swaby
Thanks Dave, unfortunately there are many who turn a blind eye or will even deny it. - Shey
@Dave Martin Racism is alive and well here in Canada too. Don't even get me started.. especially when it comes to how Canada has treated and continues to treat our Aboriginal people. Sadly, unless you've experienced the negative effects of racism directly, it's difficult to understand the lived experiences of people who are discriminated against SOLELY because of the colour of their skin... not their "lack of moral character" as our friend Alexander has mistakenly suggested. - Jasmin Smith
Jasmin, you must be living in an interesting parallel world. I think I can say with some comfortable surety at least in the context of Atlanta's hip hop media and entertainment industry that it's very, very predominantly a black enterprise. White kids may be buying it up in bulk, but that's because there are a lot of white kids and somewhat fewer black kids. Thus the term "minority." - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
Wow.. I saw this friend feed post and it sent me on a wild tangent through the web to Corvida's site and to the TechCrunch article that I somehow missed. Glad to see things come back around regardless of who the target was. - Adam Helweh
Unfortunately I think Feldman and his "shock jock" nature will try to capitalize on this negative publicity somehow. :-/ - Jennifer Leggio
Alex, I live in Canada, thanks.... but in your country, (America I presume) the Hip Hop industry is overwhelming supported by young white kids, and financially backed by their older white "parents and grandparents." While Black men and women stand as the figureheads in the industry, with the exception of a few big names, the money goes into the hands of the top execs.. who are predominately White. - Jasmin Smith
@Alexander, I am an artist in Atlanta. I know many other artists in Atlanta. The problem is that these artists talk about what they live. The big record companies help to market and glorify these things. White kids support this industry. The record companies put the black artists in positions where it looks like they run the show, but they are just managers/supervisors...not CEO's. - Rahsheen Porter
and while we're on the issue of "minorities" -- it has nothing to do with numbers and EVERYTHING to do with which groups hold the POWER in society. Racism is then perpetuated through the maintenance of these power structures along "racial lines" -- promoting stereotypes to denigrate racial minorities, all the while elevate whiteness to "the norm" (intentionally and unintentionally) which further stratifies society... - Jasmin Smith
Jennifer-who's to say he isn't the one to instigate the Verizon protest issue. It's possible that Verizon deal not so great and he hoped to generate even more publicity through this brouhaha. Hard to say when you're dealing with performance artist that is comfortable using "shock." Anything is possible. Loren might be many things but certainly dumb isn't one of them. - Mark Forman
@Mark It's quite possible. But hopefully since his notoriety is in limited circles a respectable mainstream business would realize there is more detriment than value to dealing with him. Again, the operative word being "hope." - Jennifer Leggio
So, if the "black culture" Loren parodies (well or poorly) in his video is created by, marketed by, consumed by, and enjoyed by whites, is it racist then to mock? Because, Hell, it ain't black at all by that measure and any REAL black person'd know he couldn't POSSIBLY be talking about them, right? Or are we assuming that since blacks aren't competent, driven, or cunning enough to produce the cultural artefacts credited to them (by your assertion), they're clearly too weak to take some parody and need to be protected by our doting, paternal culture? - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
With the video at the end. Spot on. Sometimes you get off the hook, sometimes there are consequences. Now he met some. - Roland Hesz
Alex, your opinion truly illuminates what is wrong with race relations in (the) America(s). Because you, and people like you have ignorantly bought into the stereotypes about Blacks (and no doubt other minorities) you fail to understand the social significance that your type of ignorance causes. It's too much to get into here. I'll sum it up in a blog post later. - Jasmin Smith
That was great to read Shey. I've felt the same way, all the stuff I've read being posted in his defense stinks of ignorance. How anyone can even stand to watch a single video by the guy is beyond me. His smug expression intolerable. His blatant bigotry is sickening. - Tsega D
It's really mind-boggling how impossible it is to actually explain race issues to people who have not lived them - Rahsheen Porter
@Jennifer, We can only hope that Feldman does call further attention to this situation, that he does attempt to rally and in that process out those like thinkers who support his plainly racist notions of humor and entertainment. We can not let this stand. We have the collective power to turn his cavalier dismissal into an indictment. We have the responsibility to call to account any advertiser that supports what is now a history of racist stereotyping for profit. If not us, who? If not now, when? - Dave Martin
OMG the irony of the video! LOL, yah he's a total loser. - Trula
@Dave I not once implied that we shouldn't continue to raise the issue. Nor do I have any doubt that Feldman will continue to fan the flames himself. My comment was merely about how I hope he does not profit from the increased notoriety this situation has caused. Not sure where you got the other part. - Jennifer Leggio
@Alexander No matter how they originate, the stereotypes end up hurting racially. When someone who's just met me jokes about not bringing a crack pipe, or when an Ivy League school president is followed around a store to make sure she won't steal anything, if you can visualize someone being negatively impacted, do you visualize a white person? How about anyone of the same "race" as the one working off the stereotype? - MiniMage
@Jennifer, by his own hand let him come to be known for what he defends and let his supporters and fellow travelers be named. I learned as a child it was a good thing the KKK sported the cover of sheets, it told us who they were. - Dave Martin
@Dave OK, I am not nor never disagreed with you. Just think you missed my point. Regardless, we're on the same side, so we can stop wasting Shey's quality convo space. :) - Jennifer Leggio
Closed circuit to Feldman: A quote by the great philosopher king Mike Tyson seems apropos here, think about it..."Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." - Dave Martin
Alexander: "Black culture" isn't monolithic; what you're describing is a substrate of hip-hop culture. Is that substrate unusually visible? Well, yeah... white kids in search of rebellion-by-proxy lap it up, making the artists in question enormously successful, which in turn attracts those in the black community who are starved for signs of economic and societal success. It's a big, complicated puzzle... not a simple matter of glorification. - Roger Benningfield
Roger, if only I could "Like" a comment :) - Rahsheen Porter
@Shey Great post. Thanks for sharing your feelings on this issue. Unfortunately, these discussions just show how far we have left to go and how much we white people have to learn. - swhitley
Amazed by all the people still saying that it's not racist. As you know it's easy to say when you're not the target of the ridicule.It really doesn't matter because corporate America doesn't like controversy. It's as simple as that. - Kenya Allmond
It seems to me that this is a classic proof that yes, words really do have consequences. Feldman likes to swagger, talk tough, and put on this macho act about how he's the only guy with big enough balls to say things other folks would rather not hear. But now that he's pissed people off enough that there are actual consequences, he says it was "satire" and complains that people are too easily offended. Well, wasn't it part of his goal to offend people? If you're going to play bad boy, play it all the way. - nathan
I have only recently come to learn of Loren Feldman - and now I wish I hadn't. I know he works to rub everyone up the wrong way, but his lack of understanding on matters is vapid to non-existent. I hadn't heard of his potentially racist path, but somehow it doesn't surprise me. - Jake Fudge
nathan-bingo-like the wise man said,"You can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?" - Mark Forman
I think it's amazing how twins stay the same weight and are so close to each other. - Michael Narciso
That would just blow my mind if I walked onto that train. - Jay Martin
What a creative and fun project. would have been fun to have stumbled upon this as it was being executed. - Jeff P. Henderson
@Michael I've know a pair of twins for a long time. They were identical when we were all children but now one is reed thin and the other is huge! They aren't very identical now! - Rahul Das
O2 is quite good though because they're promising pay as you go plans available later this year for iPhone, which means you can potentially get it (even at a high price), unlock it, and use it with any carrier.
http://o2.co.uk/iphone/paygo - Dmitry Paranyushkin via FriendFeed MT Plugin
@Yves
But this is great news and a good business opportunity. Russia is the 3rd market for iPhones (after US and China) and ironically iPhone is not available there. I think I saw estimates somewhere that there are about 500 000 of them in Russia or so...
Anyway, lots of Russians get their iPhones in the US and pay more than $1000 US to have one, cause you need a contract, etc.
So you could start bringing them from Belgium :) especially that they're not locked, so no pain with firmware upgrades...
My only problem is that you can't do videos with them. - Dmitry Paranyushkin via FriendFeed MT Plugin
I can see why LinkedIn hasn't been heard of. Not many people are into putting resumes and stuff online anyway and it seems very enterprise-ish - Corvida via twhirl
Surely that should be "What WAS Facebook"? - Chris Nixon
I actually think that FF is what I wanted Facebook to be. - Chris Nixon
"What the (bleep) is the internet" - Jay from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back - George Smith
I'm a student. Facebook is the only thing alot of them know. Twitter, Flickr, Linkedin -- like speaking Klingon. - Phillip Jeffrey
What closet, rock or hole have they been living in? Doesn't know what Facebook is? OMG you've got to be kidding me! - Susan Beebe
Facebook's a little green patch. Or a place where someone can buy you as a pet. - Christine Cavalier
Did you tell them it's where they let the asylum inmates play? - Todd Jordan
BTW, most college kids are pretty unaware of social networking. My husband is an undergraduate advisor. They concentrate on texting, mostly. The middle-to-upper class white kids know FaceBook, but that's about it. I wouldn't call 21-25 year olds digital natives. The ''true" digital natives are about 3 years old or younger right now. Corvida, I would guess that many more of your peers will come to ask you this in the coming months. - Christine Cavalier
wow, that beats some of my friends - they know what it is, but don't see the point! - Sarah Perez
LinkedIn is for when you have a career (and are establishing a professional network). Incoming freshman may not know facebook, but most do by the time October runs around. In terms of "digital native", the way I think of it is that the digital natives are those who don't understand the concept of a tv show being on at a specific day and time. My 9-y-o daughter has always known Tivo, whereas I used a 300 baud modem in my first job out of school - Barry Graubart via twhirl
Did anyone stand up and walk out in protest? - Chad Myers
Did not a single soul anywhere in PR have an inkling of how irresistible this would be to headline writers around the world? - Tom Harrison
On the other hand, maybe these people are experts at eating, they really know how to get the good food. Maybe they are the best people to help others get the good food too. :D - Andrew Baron
You all sound like hypocrites to me. I guess you all starve yourself every day in protest of world hunger and the global food crisis. Would it have made any difference if they had Big Mac's and fries? This whole thread is a joke. At least they were discussing how to solve the global food crisis. All you all are doing is having this pathetic discussion. - Michael Tefft
I didn't have an 18 course meal to discuss world hunger. - Chris Cavs
Michael, not only is the irony irresistible- it might be argued that this demonstrates a lack of compassion... not they'd think better while fasting about it, because the brain needs sugar, but politicians in particular should know better about PR backlash and how it works. - Brian Carter
@Michael: Somehow I don't think they were actually discussing the global food crisis. And, for the record, I'm willing to be that most of us in this thread donate food and money to food banks and charities that get food to Africa, SE Asia, etc. Nice try at a tu quoque, but it didn't work. - Chad Myers
From Dark Roasted Blend: "As though the weird quality of the fantastic landscape of South Dakota Badlands was not enough, huge rolling clouds (or rather very dense fog) descended to advance majestically over surreal rock formations... The fog front left in the wake of a severe Rapid City storm, rising above in an impossible crested wave:" - Mark Trapp via Bookmarklet
I've avoided this topic for many reasons, but if you are curious to its history, I would suggest reading this article. If I were to blog about this, my words would be similar. - Bwana McCall
Here all this time people were mad about puppets while THIS was out there? This guy is the Andrew Dice Clay of Web 2.0, with what I guess is "edgy" humor - hopefully he'll fade into obscurity like Clay did. - Vince DeGeorge
I knew about it because I was on that "black tech bloggers" list that he was referring to. I learned a lot that day. - Bwana McCall
@Vince See that's the thing. I don't know what to garner from that - Shey
very thoughtful post - "free speech doesn't mean free from the consequences of your speech" is so right - as soon as i saw the t-n video i knew loren crossed a line "for himself" - whether you think it was offensive or art is irrelevant - it's out there for all to judge as they see fit - i tell my teenagers this constantly, what you do online will last forever & you will be judged by it so in the words of robert scoble "be smart"... - mike "glemak" dunn
Bwana - Every time I see this issue come up, I think.. 'how does a toddler first learn to get attention? By being as annoying as possible' .. I think Loren has operated on that level his entire life. If I had to guess, I'd say he's probably enjoying all this attention, negative or not. - J. Phil
Bwana - Thanks for this heads up. This is all new to me. Loren is out of line, and I am surprised at the attitudes of the others referenced in the article. - Russellreno
J Phil - That was partly my reason for avoiding it - Bwana McCall
@J Phil do you think he suffers from Howard Stern syndrome: "I don't care what people are saying about me as long as they're talking about me." That could be it, I imagine. - Jason Shultz via twhirl
i have made the comparason to Stern elsewhere, and am glad to see that someone else has the same notions about the character in question. - Nathan Eckenrode
They both have similar effects, but comments are worth more than likes. So are the selective likers who also comment wasting their likes? - Hao Chen
I like things I want other people to see and I comment on things when I have something to say. Which is why I commented on and liked this item. - Robert Scoble
Good question. Personally I don't think they're mutually exclusive, but if you like something and comment to the same effect it's a tad redundant. - Jonathon
I use them exactly like Robert. I use a like when it's something worthy of sharing and keeping. I know my friends will see it and I can come back to it later. I comment when I think I have something witty or valuable to say. Though, I don't think that this comment necessarily fits that criteria... - Eiwe Lingefors
sometimes I "like" something and as the conversation develops, I find something valid to "comment." - Aura Mae
I like Robert's guidelines. What about other people? - Hao Chen
it is not guidelines, it is common sense. ;) but for example, I rather comment on this item than I would like it as I want to take part in the conversation. Compare it:do you rather social bookmark a blog entry or comment on it? - Nicole Simon
That's how I tend to use them as well. - Andrew Kraut
I use the "like" like an internal bookmark. Kind of like how Twitter has the star favorite thing. Usually for neet links or free apps. - Outsanity
I assume that at one point they'll diverge the two more, so if I like it then I Like it, if I have a comment, then I Comment. They're not mutually exclusive to me. - xero
xero: they totally are exclusive. You gotta click on the "me" tab and then click on the links over on the left. I can see your comments separately from your likes, or I can see them both mixed together. - Robert Scoble
I follow the Scobleism, on this one. I comment on many more than I "like", but I don't always comment on everything that I like. - Spinn
So many people put SO much thought into this.. who cares! - Mona N
I've been known to like a piece of media, see it rise to the top of my stream several times and then comment as the conversation grows - Julian Baldwin
depends how much you want to say, i guess - Pete Delucchi
I think that Likes are for times that you really don't have anything to add to the conversation, like a comment, but you do find the article interesting and you want to share it with people. Some times you really just don't have a comment to put up that isn't spam like "Interesting...." - Chacha
Robert: The system.... lol Why am I picturing a flowgram right now with you as the center and everyone's branching off of you haha - Mona N
Mona: you were close. Actually Louis Gray is in the center. I'm just a big branch off of him. - Robert Scoble
Robert, I think it's about time I googled you. I know you're like THE MAN on FF but I still don't understand why haha. I'll make sure to Google this Louis person too.... - Mona N
Good luck, Mona. If you don't like what you find, Robert and I will have a word with those Google people. - Louis Gray
i do what robert said...but if it is really important, i comment first, then a couple hours later i will like to bring it back up into the FF consciousness. - Pokai
I do one or the other or both. It just depends. I might like something, but not comment. Or I might comment, but not like it. And then there are the times when I like something and want to comment on it. It all just depends. - Jason Shultz via twhirl
I guess people use the 'like' when they agreee but dont necessarily have much to add to the post - Jassim
Mona no, there is no thought put into it at all. That is just how you start adapting in these systems to find something you work best - and some things happen do be done similar by a lot of people. It was more work to write it down. Like grammar. You learned that once and while it is problematic to explain, you just use it naturally. - Nicole Simon
I don't think you will run out of Likes, so it's not a wasting really. Also, if I comment on something it's not neccessarily true that I like it. I used to comment on politicians but I don't like them :) - Roland Hesz
edythe just ran out of likes the other night. Then she had to add a comment saying, [Like]. Not sure what the limit is, but there is one. Just sayin'. - Lisa L. Seifert
Sometimes your FF comment inside "Show...more comments":) :( - Igor Poltavskiy
Yep! Comment when you want to participate in the conversation. Like if you want to have other folks read it (or bookmark it). - Susan Beebe
I use the "like" to feed them into google reader and share them there as well. - tomit
@Scoble, I think you misread, I was saying I do the same as you. I will both like and comment, because the two are not "mutually exclusive", that is it doesn't have to be one or the other. :) - xero
I think that both leaving a comment and liking a share is redundant. One or the other. - Czar Derek Peterman
Well ... what if I want to let the person (or friends) know why I like sth.? - Michael Klier
Really, wow...did you go for work initially, and then decided to stay? what's the 411? - Anna Haro
Mark stayed in Taiwan because he is a communist tool, I mean a great person! - Dread Pirate PJ via NoiseRiver
@DP PJ-- I didn't want to say anything, but those are the rumors... - Anna Haro
PJ-That's community tool.!Actually Taiwan tools rock. Good quality sockets and wrenches here. Stanley has a factory here as does other major tool makers. Anna-Came here with idea to work on my Mandarin and look for work opportunities. Found work,wife and established own biz. Taiwan experience has been great for me. Really is my 2nd home. My son is going to visit 1st one today in US :D - Mark Forman
