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Narendra › Comments
Sorry, for the false alarms. Looks like he got PowerTwitter loaded somehow. Funny that he didn't even know. Does it come with Firefox?
Narendra, John Park and Jimminy Fuller liked this
It's very possible that it comes with one of the media packages they've promoted since 3.0
- Jimminy Fuller
PowerTwitter is a FF add on
- Sameer
Sameer: yeah, but it's one that I thought you had to download and install. Rob swears he never did that.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, it doesn't come in any of the recommended add-on packages, so either someone has done it for him or he just doesn't remember doing it.
- Jimminy Fuller
I'm not a fan of Power Twitter -- sure I like the functionality, but it slows my Twitter browsing down considerably.
- Ben Hanten
Ben, if you have FF3.5, there is no lag for Power Twitter. Links load asynchronously just like any inline element in HTML would.
- Narendra
Oh and Scoble, thanks for the free publicity ! We have a Safari version coming out soon too...
- Narendra
Why Kara Swisher and Walt Mossberg are wrong about naming Web 3.0 “Web 3.0″ - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Omar Egan, Chris Spizzirri, venkat and 57 other people liked this
The 2010 Web is a far better name, I detail some reasons why.
- Robert Scoble
because except the expression, no one has a single clue about what it is. them included. why don't we just call it the web and quit the BS expressions
- Ouriel Ohayon
Another over analysis Robert? Web 2010 is about as useful as calling it Web 3.0. At least with Web 3.0, we know people are talking about the logical next step to Web 2.0.
- Trevin
Ouriel: because the web TODAY is different from the web that existed in 1994.
- Robert Scoble
Trevin: that isn't true, actually. Many parts of today's web have nothing to do with web 2.0 stuff.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: the web is always changing, from day 1. we need a new version of it every single day. Web X.0 should be then....Or why don t we do like wine...Web09/10/11/12
- Ouriel Ohayon
I think whatever web we are in right now is so far away from the was termed "web 2.0" that although it seems logical to call it "web 3.0" it really is a totally new thing. Why not just say "real-time web"... that's closer to what this has become, imho.
- Eric Nakagawa
I mean, if you really want to break down the web into "eras" or "decades" then I guess 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 makes sense. Web 1.0 was about getting a web page. Web 2.0 was about adding people and interactivity to those pages. Web 3.0 is about exploding those pages.
- Robert Scoble
Eric: real time is only a small piece of the 2010 web. There are a few other pieces as well.
- Robert Scoble
Isn't it bed time yet?
- Jose Alvear
Ouriel: putting year numbers onto the web, like we do with wine, serves a lot of purposes and doesn't hold us back like when we use version numbers.
- Robert Scoble
Jose: it's always bed time. :-)
- Robert Scoble
3.0 shouldn't be used because the Web isn't an iterative software update (which the numbering suggests) and 2010 shouldn't be used because it isn't descriptive either. Both are weird terms developed by entities to describe a thing that *they* want. The Web is simply the Web, which is a platform for Read-Write communication. It is too encompassing in terms of what it does and is used for (and it's also amazingly simple).
- Brad_King
I don't know how you guys do it...my eyes are croosed
- John kowal
Ok, I'll bite. Yes, it's lame to call it Web 3.0. Maybe we should call it Web 2.4.
- Jose Alvear
There isn't a massive difference between Web 2.0 and 3.0 in my opinion like they're was that of Web 1.0 and 2.0. Calling it 3.0 seems stupid as I think the Web needs to evolve alot more before this new stage is classed as Web 3.0
- Nicholas James
John: heheh. If you want we can start a Mac vs. PC argument again. Those have been going on since the 1980s and they are always good for a little light disagreement.
- Robert Scoble
Grand Canyon 4.0, the 2009Erosion
- Brad_King
Robert:We can find criticism in any name we give "it" -- web 3.0, web 2010, web 2.4, Web Foo. But giving a name to the next step in its evolution over it's current state is what's important. Web 2010 is particularly bad because it's limiting it to only 1 year.
- Trevin
Brad: I'd love it if we could NOT name the web, but it's human to want to put a name on the changes we're seeing.
- Robert Scoble
Is Web 3.0 in alpha or beta release yet?
- Brad_King
When does it go gold?
- Brad_King
Brad: Google isn't naming it, so forget the "beta" tag :)
- Trevin
Trevin: years work in wine and cars. I just bought a 2010 Prius. Toyota seems to deal just fine that they have to come out with new stuff every year.
- Robert Scoble
Trevin: Well it is a date in the future... so it's at least forward looking.
- Eric Nakagawa
I'm with you.
- ruy fortini
How about Interwebz 2010 instead?
- Jose Alvear
to hard to spell
- John kowal
Ruy: well at least one guy is. Thanks! Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
It's like the naming of movie sequels, they're always lame, Terminator 2/3/4! ;)
- Colin
@Trevin: hehehe. @Robert: the Web isn't a car. Berners-Lee doesn't name the Web. He talks of iterations of how it can be used. But it's still descriptive from the Web perspective. I go with his analysis. (I can handle you better when I'm in Europe, 9 hours ahead - otherwise your energy outlasts mine. You may make me move here just to keep up with you).
- Brad_King
Robert: Unlike wine and cars, evolutions/technology shouldn't be limited by a calendar year, especially since it's not as specific. New technology comes out on Jan 1, 2011? Oops, let's get confused and call it Web 2011 :)
- Trevin
Just finished working on Tron2..Still in production
- John kowal
one of the reasons i like your 'naming' is that it puts a time to it. we could wait for the developments or put an urgency behind the desire. again, this is about a) empowering the democratization of smart data. b) aligning the 'smart' nodes. c) doing 'smart' actions, more efficiently..
- michael sean wright
Robert it's wrong to use the car analogy here. Car makers have to do that. The web is the web. It's continually evolving. Next year will you be talking about Web2011 or 2012? I hope not.
- Gilbert Harding
How about Web 3:16?
- Brad_King
Brad: LOL!
- Trevin
Gilbert: yes, I think the Web DOES change fast enough to warrant talking about the "modern trends" and putting a name to those. Having Web 2.0 for eight years was lame. It's time we got rid of that way of naming what we do.
- Robert Scoble
(and to answer @Robert's *actual* question: yes, Kara and Walt are completely and absolutely wrong in calling it that.)
- Brad_King
Isn't the catch-phrase for the next version in development right now, "The Real-time web"? ;)
- Colin
I don't mind you not calling "eras" anything. But that won't happen. Too many book publishers and too many conference owners want to put names on trends to make it easier to market their products.
- Robert Scoble
@Robert: that is 2010True ;)
- Brad_King
Colin: the real time web is a PIECE of what's happening this year. It doesn't explain EVERYTHING.
- Robert Scoble
They should use SHA1-hashes ;)
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Colin: I thought it was the social web.
- Jose Alvear
Guilty as charged Robert
- Colin
You have to be able to tell people what you're doing, and if you can sum it up in one word and people know what it means, that's a good thing!
- Colin
It will come down to whatever resonates, sticks with the most people, and is regurgitated on MSM - Web 3.0, although grossly misnamed, may end up being easier to report. Plus it's 1-char shorter than "Web 2010" for you twitter folks!
- Eric Nakagawa
Jose: Social Web isn't just what's going on ;)
- Nicholas James
Jose: The Social Web works as well, I think it's more likely we will use these terms to describe the history of the web
- Colin
No one term or phrase will ever describe what the Web is doing; it depends upon the audience. This is simply Read-Write/Input-Output - there is nothing new, simply quicker iterations of it. But let's face it, whatever O'Reilly decides, we'll call it.
- Brad_King
Yes, I think historians will look back at this era, and know exactly what to call it.
- Jose Alvear
I agree Robert but you propose replacing one naming convention with another. It's moving too fast for that. Plus you have to consider the millions of web users who really don't care what it's called here as long as it works. It's todays web. Let's leave it at that.
- Gilbert Harding
Brad: actually I think O'Reilly isn't who will decide this time. I think it'll be the Twitter team who will decide.
- Robert Scoble
@scoble What's a good example of an 'exploding' 3.0 site you can think of?
- Daniel Carroll
Gilbert: "today's web" doesn't sell as many conference tickets as "web 3.0" or "2010 web." That's what will decide what the name will be.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I like how you changed the sub-title of your blog already! I guess I missed that earlier
- Jose Alvear
Daniel: http://www.twittervision.com displays your Tweets. That looks NOTHING like what was around in 1994 or 2001.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: so we're down to grubby economics. OK.
- Gilbert Harding
I can't wait until Web 10.0
- Jose Alvear
Gilbert: isn't that how all these things get decided? Naming is almost always about commerce. Look at all the brands all around you. Why come up with names and logos and all that? Money. Grubby money. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
Just because they don't use 1 particular website makes them unqualified...IDK about that
- Kyle Cherry
Kyle: bull. I really hate it when people try to tell me they are experts on a trend or a topic without using the tools and leading products/services/companies in that area. Now, they don't need to go nuts like me, but they have to demonstrate they actually TRIED the service and UNDERSTAND what's going on there, even if it's to say "that's lame."
- Robert Scoble
Kyle: I actually agree with Robert on this. Unless you're bombarded with random crap on twitter, or intensely debated topics like naming conventions for Web versions you don't get either of them.
- Eric Nakagawa
Couldn't have agreed more on your PoV
- Sampad Swain
@Robert: I meant O'Reilly as more of a stand-in; this will be decided on by the most popular marketing group + the technologist will decry it (being pithy by saying things like, when is web 3.0 going gold or web 3:16 because they are bitter about the poor naming) and the rest of the world will adopt the loose definition to describe one general trend of events.
- Brad_King
Robert: True. I suppose if your business is selling conference tickets you have to come up with something snappy.
- Gilbert Harding
How about Web XP? or Web Vista? Ok, that's it, good night all!
- Jose Alvear
Jose: heheh. Actually, if you wanted to argue that Kara and Walt were right, you would use "Windows 7" or "OSX" to prove your point. But those actually would weaken your point because operating systems need to be built in releases. The web is totally on a different kind of shipping schedule.
- Robert Scoble
A view of your list through the filter of "real time": mobile - they demoed Wave working on mobile devices. Decentralized - anyone can run a Wave server. Pre-made blocks - Wave can make real time "easy" by providing the server, and even cross server syncing WITH privacy. Social - what real time adds to social should be obvious from the presentation. Smart - looks even smarter with real...
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- invariant - farewell FF
i agree with trevin in that i'm not buying the web 2010 name as a new, generally accepted nomenclature at this time. it is restricting to one year. nor do i feel an urgency to create an authoritative and uniform label for this moment. however, i would understand what robert is referring to when he calls it that since he is insistent on it and refuses to call it anything else. just like...
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- sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
invariant: real time is OK with me. I've invested my life in real time technologies lately.
- Robert Scoble
blackfeathers: I just want us to pick a better name this time around. I'm seeing "Web 3.0" get a ton of hype and 2010 Web is a much better way to go. If you see an even better way to go, let's discuss that!
- Robert Scoble
I like Real-Time Web
- Jesse Stay
I give you, Leo Laporte and Steve Gillmor all due credit. I didn't think real time was going to be ubiquitous until I saw the Wave presentation today. FriendFeed has shown its usefulness in a single case. Wave shows it can add to just about any experience on the web. You guys have seen it coming for a while. Kudos.
- invariant - farewell FF
I give the architects of the Internet credit for realizing that real-time computing was coming in the 60s. w00t!
- Brad_King
invariant: and Google hasn't even shown you all of its cards, which is the incredible thing. We're just at the beginning of real time.
- Robert Scoble
I'm with Jesse, Real-Time Web says it clearly.
- Tony Thomas KMPS
what i'm implying is that i'll adapt to whatever nomenclature would fit in a discussion for the benefit of being on the same page. but so far, no label stands out without question; and i don't necessarily feel an impetus to call it specifically any one thing right now. i even questioned web 2.0 because everything feels like a progression in a gradual continuum of advancement -not necessarily a page turned into a distinctively new chapter every time.
- sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
It's more than real-time though - I've also been pushing Open. That hasn't happened until today (fully).
- Jesse Stay
Brad: yeah, last night I had dinner with a former fighter pilot that's doing some crazy stuff with the Navy and got a tour of CIA headquarters and such. All the real time data we think we have? It's lame compared to the real time stuff the government is doing. We'll get there, eventually.
- Robert Scoble
One of the first technical papers from 1960 on the protocols for the Internet mention, in its 3rd subhed, real-time thinking: http://groups.csail.mit.edu/medg...
- Brad_King
@Robert: I know. Or, at least I read - I haven't seen it in action, but what I've heard from my friends around the military (and from folks like Levy) is that the real-time geo-located stuff is basically the scary-coolest shit ever.
- Brad_King
Robert, I'd kill to get a tour of the NSA - I'm sure it's even more real-time there.
- Jesse Stay
@Jesse: thatNSA tour ends with Harold and Kumar in Guantanamo Bay
- Brad_King
Brad: he says that their unmanned vehicles gather so much data that they are taking down satellite bandwidth. At Kinnernet a few weeks ago I saw video from Israeli army where they were seeing live streamed video from one of these at night and were able to use the data from the UAV to send a smart bomb in and get right on the target. I'm sure we'll talk about some of this stuff on the aircraft carrier.
- Robert Scoble
bear hug, xmpp, leo laporte, identica/laconica, real-time, it was all a blur when exactly, but putting these elements and events together i had a feeling something was coming... especially with realtime. i spoke to a developer about xmpp and information silos last december. he didn't see any future other than instant messaging. wave helps put these things together, just like (in a loose analogy) a unifying theory in the physics realm.
- sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
@Robert: I think Jesse is right, Open needs to be in there somewhere as well. I think platform wise, that's becoming one of the hallmarks of this. (oh, and man - I would give almost anything to be there. The place I really want to go - the JPL, which has to be doing some crazy stuff too)
- Brad_King
blackfeathers: Wave is going to do some crazy stuff. You should go read Zoho's blog on it. Here, let me find that. Brad and Jesse: of course you're right, but it's a little harder to explain that in one sentence.
- Robert Scoble
@Robert: you know who might have an idea, Winer. Open is big to him and I'm guessing that he's thought of this in some way. It's hard in one phrase, BUT open is the hallmark for this growth. Real-time is dependent upon that openness in some way to scale out.
- Brad_King
robert: i agree. i've scoured and read what i can on google's site regarding wave. thx in advance for the link.
- sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
Wave makes realtime systems easy to develop. They handle realtime even with two or more servers between each client. That's the key, although the user-level functionality was extremely compelling as well.
- invariant - farewell FF
Okay, I must get back to writing on Chapter 1 - but Robert, as always, has sparked a fascinating discussion. Cheers all. (And for my tastes, FF feels like an adhoc version of Quantum LInk, with chat rooms coalescing around both personalities and topics instead of static topics. I mean that with love.)
- Brad_King
invariant: what's also compelling is the decentralised dynamics of the client-server model with the processing of the flowing information. a server can be a client & vice versa. it looks richer/fuller with the addition of robots and gadgets.
- sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
I saw this article only now, more than 2 hours later, because the tool I was using to find it (Google Reader/RSS) was not updating from your site. Ugh.
- Louis Gray
Love the year/car analogy - everyone understands "model" years...and a web model year system follows much the same paradigm. The difference in tech between a '99 car (even a nice one) and a mid-price 2010 car is phenomenal - same goes for web services and data processing.
- Adam Pilbeam
I commented there, and will indeed do so again here, simply because even though someone has a '96 Jetta or whatever, doesn't mean they can't install their own engine, or make other modifications. Still don't like the car model analogy, and not really liking that you believe FF to be what the 2010 will/should be.
- Mike Shields
I see no reason why we can't use both terms interchangeably. In History we see this phenomenon all the time: The Renaissance, The Reformation, The Scientific Revolution, The Industrial Revolution...these terms merely embody ALL of the mass changes that happened in that general frame of time. But any historian knows that elements of those changes were already occurring long before the...
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- Carlton Hackett
Scoble, the web changes every *second* of every day!
- Narendra
Web 3.0 sounds confusing, am ok with Web 2.1 though, i don't know about 2010 web, sounds too much like a Microsoft thing, Office 2007, Visual Studio 2007 if i have to choose between 2010 web and Web 3.0, i would choose Web 3.0 because it sounds better
- Tweet Feeds
Nice post, Scoble. Naming often results in path dependence, framing our vision of what might be from within potentially limited and limiting initial conditions. The movement we might see in the infrastructure of the web in the next two years might be drastically different than Web 2.0; framing that difference as "Web 3.0" can potentially restrict potential growth. As Kenneth Burke puts it, "a way of seeing is also a way of not seeing."
- Brian McNely
brilliant writeup..... interesting that tim himself said web 2.0 was a retrospective trend analysis and not a predictive one... the whole 2.0 thing now is nothing but hype... and now 3.0... the pity is, once the masses get in, a lot of stuff dumbs down to the lowest common denominator... but its possible still to interact with the few that are doing good stuff and now the herd!
- simran
I would have to say I agree but never thought of it this way. I find a new app or new tool or a new way of using an existing one almost every day. When thousands of developers are collaborating in real time 24/7 the pace of change will continue to be mind boggling. Like Tim has said in the past social media is nothing new, it's the mass adoption modern platforms inspire. Version numbers...
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- Mike Elliott
Call me old fashioned, but I still call it "the Internet" (sometimes capitalized, sometimes not). Web 2.0, Web 2010 -- what is this? Microsoft's naming scheme?
- Andy Bakun
The term is neither right or wrong. The web changes constantly. Numbering some phases just puts a frame on it. Nova Spivack of Twine called it best in my opinion by saying that web 1.0 was roughly the '90s, 2.0 this decade and 3.0 will be the coming decade. No need to get obsessed about it and if anybody doesn't like the numbers that's fine too.
- Joe Buhler
@Robert -- spot on
- Ryan Petty
My humble opinion: It might seem pretentious (at least) declare the end of an era and the begginign of another from a personal view. Reminds me Marvin the martian declaring a planet on his behalf. However, the real substance is what kind of Web do we wish for the years to come and how are we working for that becoming real: expanding the access, closing gaps, using it as an empowering tool for world citizens, or addressing global issues for next generations.
- Jorge Acosta
Well said. The whole "Web 2.0" tag is irritating the hell out of me. Even more so when I have to use it myself in order to sell products to people who don't understand anything about what's going on online beyond the fact that they want this catchphrase attached to their site. All it is really used for is to hide the ignorance of people who want to sound like they know what's going on but couldn't explain what they meant by web 2.0, even if you gave them a chart.
- Aram Zucker-Scharff
There should be a government regulatory board that ratifies whether websites are 1.0, 2.0, or 3.0 based on a series of specific technical capabilities, when they were founded/created, whether their urls are misspelled words, and what colors are used in their logos. Violations by PR professionals using an inappropriate designation for a particular site will be punished by waterboarding, and for repeat offenders, the inability to use any social networking websites for life.
- Cristo
@Joe Buhler: That's exactly how I feel. The name doesn't matter at all. The web is going to go where it goes wether we name it or not. I think the bottom line of the future web is that everything is going to be interconnected and real-time is just a part of that. Facebook Connect and twitter oauth ect. go in that direction already GWave takes it to a whole other level. There will be no...
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- Kahlil Lechelt
I guess it's always a bit dangerous to start a post saying other people are wrong, and then write as though you have a much better answer... I guess the web are many things to many different people, so can we please stop trying to put it in a box.
- Peter Efland
I deal with a considerable number of small business owners. Some have a web presence (most of which has a 2000 feel to it) and others who are only now looking at a web presence. This I know for sure from personal experience: If one does not use terminology or analogies that are easily understood to explain the daily evolving web one has a problem in getting the idea across. Always...
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- Peter du Toit (S.Africa)
This is a great post Robert. It's great to see a clear, simple definition of what's to come. This is a very exciting time and I can't wait for web 2011 or web 3.11 for workgroups. Whichever comes first.
- Pete Barry
Awesome post. Could not agree with you more.... Walt and Kara are the most disconnected people on the web. Walt does not even respond to user comments on articles that he writes for wsj. I think they just said it coz they wanted to be the FIRST to say it. The best host for a conference like that would be you Robert...:)
- venkat
Seesmic Desktop Launch Live Stream - http://live.loic.tv/?sp
Mickey Mellen, Kevin Elliott, Dain Kennison and 2 other people liked this
Use Google to Check Time: Daylight Saving Time Begins Tomorrow - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Nicholas James, Matt Cutts, Imabug and 5 other people liked this
Already happened here in California. Remember to set your clocks ahead!
- Robert Scoble
why does the US change their clocks on a different date to the rest of the world?
- Riaz Kanani
They brought it forward last year. Something to do with saving money and electricity.
- Roberto Bonini
I reckon it is costing the US more money in lost business through missed meetings alone..
- Riaz Kanani
#32bit is stealth this year. We aren't announcing the location until the last moment. But it is going to be big. Follow http://twitter.com/32bit
- Narendra
I still haven't decided who I am voting for but I think McCain's VP pick was a brilliant move that probably ensures he will clinch.
Larry Huffman, Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah, Lucretia Pruitt and 9 other people liked this
Steve -- are you really in favor of expanding the disastrous Iraq War to Iran and Russia? Why? There is an excellent chance that McCain would preside over the collapse of the American military and the American economy. And: does Sarah Palin look like she is capable of serving as president of the United States?
- Sean McBride
If he wins, it's now a certainty that we'd have four more years of decisions based on what's good for oil companies, not what's good for energy strategy.
- LogEx
Sean, Palin is a PR move. But a brilliant one. She has a kid in the army, a disabled son. Beautiful. Young. Female. Its not about being capable of serving as president imo. Its about sealing the deal.
- Jamie
"probably ensures." i love it
- Cee Bee
i think it just pushed me to obama.
- Morgan
Jamie - my instant gut reaction was that McCain made a terrible mistake in picking Palin. Mitt Romney would have been a much more effective choice. Numerous lines of attack on Palin are already coming into view. We shall see.
- Sean McBride
@Cee PR training
- Steve Rubel
I'm am so over Presidents (or would-be's) making important decisions like this based on 'PR'. Count me out.
- M. Donaldson
I'm biting my tongue real hard, Steve. I'm sorry, but this choice proves, once again, that McCain will say or do ANYTHING to get into the White House. This is a political move that he hopes will make him President, not better our nation.
- Brad Williamson
@Michael S...I haven't seen a good pic of Sarah yet...I know I got a crush on Tina Fey...and McCain's wife, for that matter...uh oh...I hope I don't vote with my "brain" this November...
- Live4Emma (L4S)
On Fox News, they're talking about how Michigan and Minnesota could be affected greatly by this because Palin is a hockey player and those are hockey states, so she could connect to them on "those issues." love it!
- Cee Bee
@Cee Bee - pundits. america's finest.
- Morgan
Its pushed me to Obama that combined with his glorious convention this week, time for change not more of the same.
- orionstarr
My boss is ticked... man it does suck to work with republicans
- orionstarr
plus they delivered this the day after Obamas speech. Nobody will be talking about it anymore. McCains PR people deserve a raise lol
- Jamie
From The Times: "Kassie Siegel, of the Centre for Biological Diversity, said that it was unconscionable for Ms Palin to ignore overwhelming evidence of global warming's threat to the polar bear's habitat. “Even the Bush Administration cannot deny the reality of global warming,” she said. “The Governor is aligning herself and the state of Alaska with the most discredited, fringe, extreme viewpoints by denying this. “She is either grossly misinformed or intentionally misleading, and both are unbecoming.”"
- Sean McBride
Agree with Jason. Republicans co-opt the "change" meme, while simultaneously energizing the conservative base. Change, but not too much.
- Sprague D
@JMS care to substantiate that statement?
- Morgan
JMS -- wasn't Sarah Palin a strong supporter of the Iraq War, a disaster in which Americans have dumped trillions of dollars down the drain with the effect of greatly increasing the power of Iran? And doesn't a large majority of Americans consider the iraq War to have been a mistake and a failure? Also, you need to compare Palin's foreign policy credentials with those of Biden -- it's not even a matchup.
- Sean McBride
Since Sarah Palin is militantly anti-choice and anti-environmentalist, it is unlikely that she will draw any Hillary Clinton supporters to her camp. What a gross miscalculation the McCain campaign has made.
- Sean McBride
@JMS fair enough, neither do i :)
- Morgan
Sarah Palin's profile: anti-choice, anti-environment, anti-feminism, anti-global warming activism, pro-big oil, pro-corruption, pro-gun, pro-Iraq War.
- Sean McBride
I fear this selection will turn me into the crazy nutter wearing a trash bag as a raincoat who stands in the corner shouting one word over and over again. That word will be CREATIONIST!
- cecily
did you read this steve? http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008...
- Narendra
McCain just won the election.
Christopher Perry, Cecil Sandus, Aether and 9 other people liked this
are you joking? I don't think folks are going to be comfortable with a 44-year old outsider as the potential replacement for an old man.
- Narendra
lulz
- Cee Bee
hope you're right!
- Chris Selland
Wait - didn't Obama win it last night?
- George Smith
I agree - McCain has seized this election and destroyed Obama's ability to be the man of change or a Bush clone. Genius.
- Ben Parr
All kidding aside - good pick by McCain. We'll have to see how she holds up to media scrutiny, in debates, and overall on the campaign trail. It takes a bit of bite out of Biden (he can't be too tough on her) and expectations are low - that being said, a lot of the women swing voters will be turned on by this. Can that manifest itself in votes - not only in numbers, but in the right states.....
- George Smith
She doesn't hold up after 10 minutes of scrutiny. She's been in elected office for less than 3 years (far less than even Obama), and she allegedly used her power as governor to attempt to fire her brother-in-law, who was locked in a child custody dispute with her sister. When the public safety commissioner refused, she fired him: http://beta.friendfeed.com/e...
- Mark Trapp
disagree. i think they just tossed one of their major platform pitches. the experience argument is now a wash.
- Morgan
And what is this, 1930? Because she's a woman you can't be tough on her? Do you hear what that sounds like?
- Mark Trapp
analysis fail.
- Sam Harrelson
from twhirl
I just heard the opposite from down the hall at my office. Go figure. A good counterpoint to Biden, perhaps (outsider vs. insider, just like the top of the ticket) but I don't think it will swing women toward the Republicans, and might keep some folks away from the polls altogether.
- Steve Lowe
I think this was a brilliant move by the GOP. Suddenly the Republican ticket is much more attractive to disenfranchised Hillary supporters who dream of a woman in the White House.
- Andy Roth
Her 80% approvel rating says it all. McCain picked the only republican that is seen as more of a Mavrick than he is. He just turned this into a real horse race, Obama's lost his deathgrip on the Youth Vote.
- Aram Zucker-Scharff
from twhirl
I wouldn't go that far just yet but he certainly guaranteed a good fight
- Live4Emma (L4S)
"More of the same" I'm glad the republicans are coming out of the wood work on friendfeed now I know who I need to take off my subscription list
- orionstarr
He seems to have just lost his readiness argument, selecting a 44 year old political novice as his #2.
- Jason Goldberg
Mark, you don't know if she holds up yet. Wait for her to make her case today and at the convention before we say she can or can't do the job.
- Ben Parr
I'll tell you who won with this morning's GOP news: Tina Fey
- Blake N. Cooper
+1 jason - i agree completely. it also makes months of politicking seem completely insincere and hypocritical.
- Morgan
Is that an 80% approval in Alaska--Alaska?!, where Ted "series of tubes" Stevens got re-elected, and probably would again despite the corruption? There's no way McCain can say Obama's not ready, and I doubt if any women who believe in equal rights, equal pay, and choice, will vote for McCain just to hope he'll die in office and a (conservative) woman will be president.
- Steve Lowe
good to see a woman make the ticket. I like the fact that she's an outsider. I can't imagine that Hollywood has focused on buying her off in quite the same way that they have Biden. Don't know much about her yet but given that the VP choice is largely to shore up undecideds, seems like a smart move politically.
- Thomas Hawk
Ha, I'm one of those moderate female swing voters and that's a horrible choice. If McCain did win and suddenly passed away, we're left with a first term Senator with less experience than Obama? He can't throw the inexperience tag anymore.
- Sally Church
She's a governor loopy.
- eggsy
Because running Alaska is SOOOOO difficult
- teh Dork Knight aka Kenny
The election of blunders maybe. I mean, does anyone want Palin a heart beat away from the Presidency? Can you imagine her as Commander In Chief? I can with Romney, but Palin? No experience, ties to big oil and abuse of power. I don't get it. Tell me why this is a good choice.
- AJ Kohn
Aram an 80% approval rating in a state that has how many people? stats can say waht you want them to say with a little help.
- R. Ferguson
Running Alaska is a little more challenging than organizing a community in So. Chicago.
- eggsy
which election is that? can I get an oil industry check to go with the drilling along my coast too?
- Scott Moskowitz
What? McCain just took "experience" off the table as a campaign issue. He chose a nationally untested and unknown figure, from the most famously corrupt state in the union. The pandering for Clinton's supporters is transparent and obnoxious. She's probably a good pick given the choices - but to say he just won the election? Heck no.
- Eric P
Cause she is a woman? If that is your sole reason, that implies that she was chosen for her gender, not her skill. Her gender then becomes a novelty, a bumper sticker, a 'hey look what we can do' move. It implies anyone could do it, as long as they were female. I would find that a tad insulting.
- Johnny Worthington
@eggsy: I'm confused. Is this black guy running for president? http://www.dcpincorp.org/ Cause I thought the Democrats nominated Barack Obama.
- teh Dork Knight aka Kenny
eggsy how does it compare 2 state sentator for 8 years, a US Sen for 2 years, building 1/2 Billion org from the ground in 18 mos
- R. Ferguson
the reaction of a republican acquaintance in her late 60's: "i don't want her holding the reins when he shuffles off this mortal coil."
- eric mortensen
Ruth: US Senator for 4 years.
- Aaron Hood
You so want to have not said this all over these here tube internets - good luck!
- Noah Carter
Fucking Starbucks. What's so hard about keeping a pot of coffee full in a COFFEE STORE? I had 2 min. to get a cup. They wasted my time. Grr
Adrian Nadeau, Sarah Perez, Andrew Baron and 4 other people liked this
2 whole minutes. No wonder they're closing stores!
- jeneane sessum
They insist on making you wait for them to make the full pot instead of offering you a free press coffee, or an americano. It's poor service.
- Justin Whitaker
Are ya bein pissy just to say somethin pissy?
- John McElhenney 2.0
My issue with Starbucks is the damage they are doing to the waste system. Whenever I order a douple espresso and say, "no lid" please, they say "We have to give you a lid". Then I say "I dont want one, its thick nasty PVC and Im just ganna throw in that trash can right there so please dont give me one", to which they reply "Im sorry, we HAVE to, here you go, have a nice day". And the...
more...
- Andrew Baron
Andrew, I think it's because of the McDonalds Coffee Lawsuit http://www.vanosteen.com/mcdonal...
- Merry Xmas FFeeders - AJ
Andrew: I've never noticed the paper-cup-first thing. I'll have to pay attention to that. This kind of thing deserves a good mocking.
- ha3rvey (Ho)^3
gee, two minutes. you sound like a spoiled brat
- Cee Bee
And when they filled your cup, they did so with Starbucks coffee and all its pretentious, overpriced nastiness.
- Dave Roth
Lets all get together and take 'em down right now, whattaya say!?
- Andrew Baron
hey, what about Dunkin Donuts? At least you have 'em on the mainland!
- Bill Sodeman
What? Starbucks has started serving coffee? I thought it was warm dishwater. :-)
- Jeremy Brooks
Starbucks Coffee always has a burnt taste to it.
- Henry DeBardeleben
from twhirl
@Bill Sodeman DD coffee is awful, bitter, and only drinkable with copious amounts of sugar and cream. I prefer to make my own coffee, but when out, Starbucks is about all there is. Not many indie coffee houses near where I work.
- Justin Whitaker
we have tim hortons in canada ,, always fresh , new pot always on , plus you dont have to say all those silly words ,,,,
- johnpiercy
has anyone had coffee from the new clover machines (supposedly showing up in various starbucks)? http://www.wired.com/gadgets...
- Sarah Perez
the problem I have with Starbucks is that what I want is a simple cup of coffee. I want it as big as it comes, and I don't need room for milk. I don't want a breakfast sandwich, I don't want a smoothie, I don't want a CD. Don't look at me like I am from another planet, you are a god-d*mn coffee shop.
- Justin Whitaker
Hey all... just buy coffee beans and make your own coffee... it's better... cheaper... and better for the environment. Easy for me I guess... I work from home about 50% of the time.
- Adrian Nadeau
actually, it sounds like you need to back off the coffee
- Narendra
I smell "Dell Sucks" all over again. how long until we meet BrandonAtSbux via Twitter
- Adam
Buy a Cuisinart grind 'n' brew, a pound a week of good beans, and a Stainless King 40oz Thermos. It's freedom, I tell you.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Coffee is for closers ;)
- Dave Martin
techmeme is pretty lame not to have anything on scrabulous being shut down. NY Times and Mashable have had articles up for a while and there are tons of blog posts and twitter chatter already.
I guess arrington has to chime in first before techmeme displays ;-)
- Narendra
It seems that there is a cognitive limit to the number of social relationships a person can maintain. Twitter created an interesting product in part by limiting updates to 140 chars. What if they also limited them to 140 friends? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
'Like' robot (frɐnc), Nikpay, Niv and 73 other people liked this
social MEDIA relationships have no limit :)
- Luigi Centenaro
Nice idea. Though when you hit the limit, you would end up having to chose who to kick from your list. Unless that kicking were automated. Which brings us back to the original problem that defining such relationships in the first place often adds more worry than an auto-triggered-by-your-everyday-actions kind of approach (which does have its own world of problems, admittedly...).
- Philipp Lenssen
Did they meet Scoble?
- Steve Rubel
Tag+Rate>set strike out limit/Filter/reduce/visible tags+but hopefully soon lists fold/collapse>file view../ Tag/Rinse repeat. This will come in handy also for Stephen Colbert when he joins his Thetruthiness room;-D, and I bet for you too Paul/FF Co, for the wood for the trees it may need a nice hot air balloon/or summat like a hand held mini helicopter which runs on its own propulsion! filter etc, Anyways a bit of Friendfood for the road, speaking of which its tummytime!:-P
- Jason
The number of relationships one can maintain is clearly limited but the number of information sources one can process is far greater. I suspect most of the Twitter/FF/other social media friends are much more like RSS feeds than relationships.
- timepilot
I seem to remember reading some research that theorised that the maximum size community/relationship we can maintain is limited at around 200 people. I'm trying to find where I read it now... *edit*: hah-nevermind, clicking on your link showed me exactly the research i was citing.
- David Adam
Social media apps need multiple friend "TYPES", i.e. family, real-life friends, colleagues, online friends / acquaintances, and business contacts. This way you could have multiple groups of friends. I can dream... oh, wait Facebook already has this - they have groups with permission controls - and yes I really use that set of features!! I love that!
- Susan Beebe
Dunbar's number is usually taken to be the maximal size of a cohesive group, not the maximal number of relationships one person can maintain. Some sources (including the Wikipedia article) confuse the two. It's an interesting question how the social sites would change with a friend limit. A room size limit on FriendFeed would also be an interesting experiment.
- Michael Nielsen
Limiting Twitter friend count to 140 would drive slackers to other micro-blogging platforms. ;-) No really, we have (an growing number of) tools to filter relevant content from much greater number of users.
- Nenad Nikolic
from twhirl
Let us also not lose sight of the fact that, all other things being equal, the human organism is an engine of adaptation. I don't have a background in neurobiology or in developmental psychology, to say nothing of anthropology, but it's hardly dizzying leap to imagine that the emergence and subsequent evolution of the human mind was (and is) an exercise in testing and overreaching boundaries...[to be continued]
- Derrick Burns
[continued]...which is to say: humbug. The internet with its shiny social media toys is nothing more or less than a novel environment, with its attendant resource distributions, evolutionary pressures, and selection mechanisms. What I think we'll find is that those pressures and mechanisms will affect us not only intellectually, but, over time, physiologically as well. Have 140 friends, or 1400. Whether for the better there's no way to say, but we will adapt. It's what we're best at.
- Derrick Burns
150 relationships to maintain, sure: but isn't the old mantra of if you aren't building your network, you're doing it wrong also true? You may only really interact on a regular basis with 150 people, but if you only choose to subscribe to or friend 150 people, you'll never find out about new people or new ideas. Maybe subscriber 151 and higher are people trying out for slots 1 through 150: oh dear, did MySpace have it right with their top friends list?
- Mark Trapp
I wonder how much that limit may be changing, though. It seems like we interact with more and more people all the time.
- Christopher Granade
If you assume that the sole purpose of Twitter ought to be to the maintenance of social relationships then this might make sense. If on the other hand you look at Twitter as partially being about maintaining social relationships but also partially about getting fast breaking news early, meeting new friends, forming new social relationships, being informed about interesting subjects by fringe connections, broadcasting your own social media, etc. then the 140 limit becomes a significant barrier to use.
- Thomas Hawk
depends on the degree of reciprocity. I can be a follower to many (with the right tools), maintain a sense of their identities (sometimes aided by good UI), and have only rare interactions with them that, while ephemeral, can be rich, useful, and/or meaningful. I think the new forms of asymmetric friending/following and the tools for interfacing among these folks change the rules. What is a "social relationship" in 2008? What is the cognitive overhead to "maintain" it?
- tonx
LiveJournal did this for a while. People just got multiple journals and X-posted between them. An online friend isn't always the same thing as a real friend.
- Jonathan Tang
What is better needed is an actual way to filter the significance of a large pool of social relationships from strangers to closest friend. The answer here is relatively simple and straightforward. Allow users to use a 10 point rating system for every contact with 5 being a default. By incorporating this rating data into future systems of rank, relevancy and eventually search it would be more powerful than anything that exists in social media today.
- Thomas Hawk
There was an argument a while back that Free Twitter should be limited to say 150 followed, more should be paid for as that is increasingly the realm of pro-sumerdom. That would also allow us to discover the marginal value of online friendship.
- Broadstuff
I don't think we have much in common with the villages, tribes, and other organizations that Dunbar was studying. All of the groups he studied had a common interest in cohesion as a unit as a means for survival. I'm not convinced that many of us view our social network interactions as "necessary" (at least, I don't see it that way).
- Jason Wehmhoener
Dunbar's number is the reason I prefer to work for companies with fewer than 150 people.
- Ginger Makela Riker
If you can and want to keep up with 150 people then you will. Some of them will fade in and out of your social circle, effectively giving you many times that number if needed, but only around 150 at a time. (In your head that is.)
- xero
The Dunbar number was arrived at by studying primates picking fleas off each other, not tribal humans ;)
- Broadstuff
=Derrick, =timepilot. Also, note that even though we know about Dunbar's number, no one imposes an actual limit of 140 real-life friends.
- j1m
I'm not sure that the people I have on my FriendFeed are what I would term "friends" or even "associates." They are contacts whose opinions I value, but if I don't hear from them in a while, it's not like I go out of my way to get back in touch. Same with some twitter folks...??
- Justin Long
agree with susan beebe. need to be able to group and prioritize friends. tweetdeck is starting to get at this
- rob zand
The issue largely is that fringe contacts and even strangers produce valuable information even if infrequently. But by subscribing to large numbers in order to best get the chance of getting this information you also have to manage noise. Hide helps here. But fundamentally there are top contacts that are more important to you than strangers. By allowing users to rate these contacts as 10s and strangers as 1s you get the best of both under a new category of daily information based on personal relevancy.
- Thomas Hawk
As Seth Godin always says it's not how many but who that's important
- Jeremy Campbell
from twhirl
We deliberately made the UI limiting within 30Boxes so that you would only try to keep up with 2-10 people (ostensibly those that matter most and impact your scheduling and decision making)...
- Narendra
Thomas, I agree with your thinking completely. But in theory I can stay under the Dunbar's number here on FriendFeed (I am currently, and I hope to keep it that way) and still get the best of all worlds and the most valuable info so long as a few of the people I am subscribing to uber aggregate like you and Scoble.
- Robert Seidman
Robert, even subscribing to the uber aggregaters though you miss a lot. Do a search for a term that you're interested in more broadly on FF and you'll find people you aren't subscribed to that are sharing interesting content that the uber aggregaters might miss. A system that allowed you to rate your higher priority contacts while still including the occasional quality content producer could produce the pinnacle of personal relevancy.
- Thomas Hawk
Why does everyone try to define social software by just "friends?" That really sucks. People online are NOT my "friends." They are people I want in my social network. I have more than 8,000 business cards. Are you going to tell me that I haven't met 8,000 people and that I don't need to find a way to keep 8,000 in my rolodex? I would NEVER use such a software. Facebook limits me to 5,000 which makes it far less useful for business purposes than if it didn't have those limits. That said, I'm sure...
- Robert Scoble
...that there is a market for such a limiting service. It might even be very popular. But then lots of stupid things are popular on the Internet.
- Robert Scoble
140 chars limit instead of duct tape on Scoble's mouth ;)
- A.T.
This assumes a lot. Like that Twitter can count.
- XDpaul
Paul this limit was invented by the famous 150 number in a time when society worked completly different. This is like saying "because a hundred years ago a person would read 10 books in their lifetime and could not grasp more, how about we limit it to the same number today?". People just need to learn what works for them, how _they_ are comfortable using these systems and then apply it.
- Nicole Simon
Thomas,Even at 140 people I had to utilize a lot of the hide always functionality to make things manageable, and that was with a lot of time to screw around with it. Using "search everyone" to follow topics of interests works very well for me as is, and they could retool the "Best Of" some to surface the best stuff across wider areas. There are perhaps a lot of ways to achieve being the pinnacle of personal relevancy but none of them are easy :-) Still, I'd love to see it achieved.
- Robert Seidman
Twitter's 140-character limit wasn't arbitrary, it worked well with SMS making it useful on the go. Is there some specific thing that having only 10 friends would help you with?
- ⓞnor
Here's the problem with "best of" today. Everyone's "best of" ought to be influenced by personal relationships. If my wife posts something with 3 comments and 3 likes this is more personally relevant to me than a thread about what music people are listening to with 30 comments and 30 likes. By weighting my higher value contacts you ensure that my wife's post is seen in my personal "best of" daily stream even if it pushes out the overall higher ranked thread on music.
- Thomas Hawk
perhaps a better system would be 10 friends and 100 people you know then unlimited follow relationships. You could even automate the promotion of people from follow to know. Then weight the best of pages with this info.
- John Cooper
from fftogo
Dunbar's 150 limit theory is a group theory, not and individual theory. A group is pretty united at that number, but if it passes the 150 limit "people start becoming strangers to each other". But an individual can handle way more interactions. I mean, it all depends on how you view "friendship". If you believe that intimacy is a must to consider people friends, than your # will be low.
- Jay Cruz
I think that would be an interesting experiment. And I'm sure it would have avoided some of the scale issues they hit.
- Dave Winer
Jason realized that his limit was 750 .. (but why email?)
- Vishwajith
aren't all relationships social?
- Jeremy Toeman
It is surprising that there's not more implementation of XFN across social web apps; as imperfect as it is, it certainly adds much-needed value to the "friend" paradigm.
- mabisa
Implementation of XFN or FOAF? "That's the wonderful thing about standards-- there's so many to choose from!" Of course, with so many services implementing APIs nowadays, it's not unreasonable that someone could use Google AppEngine or similar to create XFN from pre-existing services. Such tools may spur more services to start directly implementing XFN.
- Christopher Granade
that's a really cool idea...maybe I'll stop at 140 on identica and see what happens!
- Sarah Perez
If you want to pass from theory to practice, let me recommend you the book "Knowledge Management Strategies: A Handbook of Applied Technologies", which has a chapter called "Implementing Communities of Practice to Manage Knowledge and Drive Innovation"... I also have here a paper called "Distributed Consolidation: Identity, Reputation, and the Prospects for Online Social Interaction", written this year, but I didn't read it yet.
- Marcos Marado
Thomas, on filtering: why not be able to dynamically identify score by staring individual posts, like slashdot and plurk do - if I star a post, I give you a certain number of points; if I star a comment on a post, I give you a certain (but possibly lesser) number of points; and be able to give perhaps multiple stars to indicate significance; two kinds of negative stars: "don't show me this" or "block user" so the system can learn. Then people can aggregate points over time, too...
- Justin Long
I would like some kind of Top Friends or Best Friends layer in both FriendFeed and Twitter. It can be anon or fully socialized.
- Elliott Ng
I like the idea of limited friends. What if you start with a fixed number, lets say 25, and once certain criteria are fulfilled (activity, no. of posts, etc.) you are allowed more...
- Bastian
I've just finished reading Malcolm Gladwell's "The Tipping Point". Very interesting and inspiring.
- Niv
@TechCrunch Rofl @ Flickr as "the most successful photo-sharing site on the Web". Love Flickr, but which metric? Financial? Adoption? Nope
Satya, Akshay Dodeja, Scott Jarkoff and 13 other people liked this
I agree. I love the flickr community, but IMHO smugmug is a better setup for me. Much more professional. Different strokes, I guess. I get the feeling that smugmug probably makes a little more $$$ than flickr, too. I would love to see some financial metrics on all the major online photo sharing sites....
- Matthew Freeman
Hey Don, Twip podcast ( www.twipphoto.com) just mentioned SmugMug last week with regards to the shopping cart. Surely this is one way Smugmug is better than Flickr (I'm thinking of Twitter vs FF too much)!!!
- Roberto Bonini
Flickr has the largest collection of tagged and organized photos that has ever existed in the world. There is incredible power in this organization that people have yet to even comprehend. I would consider them the most successful photo-sharing site on the web... even if Zooomr is cool too. ;)
- Thomas Hawk
Metric: Silicon Valley mindshare. People can't say "share photos" without the words "on flickr." On TC photo-sharing sites are judged by how quickly the reviewer can find those features that mimic flickr's.
- Bruce Lewis
@Matthew Freeman: Just be clear, SmugMug doesn't belong in that category, either. Other companies have much larger photo repositories than Flickr (and way larger than us) and have made more money than Flickr (or us). This isn't SmugMug vs Flickr (and it almost never is) - it's about Flickr not being "the most successful" in any sense of the word.
- Don MacAskill
@Thomas Hawk: I'm sorry, but the WSJ or New York Times or Fortune magazine - you know, the people who define success in this business - wouldn't use "largest collection of tagged and organized photos" as a measure of success when using the word "most". It's awesome, and useful, but "most"? Come on.
- Don MacAskill
@Bruce Lewis: Silicon Valley mindshare is hardly a useful barometer either. Adoption and financial success are the two typically used and well-understood metrics (and they're often at odds with each other, at least initially) - and Flickr doesn't match up to either.
- Don MacAskill
Hey, you asked which metric, not which useful metric. :-)
- Bruce Lewis
@Bruce Lewis: Touche. ;)
- Don MacAskill
Don, which photosharing site would you say would be the "most successful" in terms of adoption? Which in terms of financial success? My guess is that if all of the photo sharing sites out there were independent and all went public at the same time that Flickr would fetch the highest price in the public markets.
- Thomas Hawk
As sad as it is to measure a site this way... my mom knows what flickr is (although she still complains about the missing 'e')
- Johnny Worthington
Actually Thomas, I would guess that Facebook has the largest collection of tagged images and would probably fetch the highest price. Entertaining discussion and as a founder of the original (Webshots) I am also a user of Flickr, paying customer for Smugmug, and also post to Facebook ;-)
- Narendra
I'm not sure that the quality of the images on Facebook are in the same league as Flickr. Also, seems like Flickr has been around several more years than Facebook and it's reason for existence is photos, where Facebook's primary function is not necessarily photo sharing, more like vanity. So I'd bet that Flickr has more total photos and definitely more quality photos.
- Jeff P. Henderson
@Jeff: Facebook limits the maximum length of an image to 604 pixels and they aren't keyword searchable. The biggest problem when discussing this type of thing is we are all way ahead of the curve with these sites. The general population are only still just getting digital cameras and haven't got the notion of sharing them online. We are still in very early days and to declare a winner now would be foolish.
- Johnny Worthington
You're probably right about Facebook having the largest collection of tagged images Narendra, but they are not organized nearly as effectively as Flickr. More than just tagging flickr ranks, coordinates geotags, etc. But photo sharing is only a portion of Facebook. Facebook would be better compared to Yahoo which also has a portion of their company (Flickr) serving photos.
- Thomas Hawk
The biggest problem with Facebook photos is I have 4,500+ images on there but at best could only expect 100-200 people to ever see. Plus the fact you have to already be a Facebook memeber kills the chances of my parents or relatives ever seeing them. I have slowly being uploading to Flickr but it is by no means perfect. I have a list of at least 10 features I would love to see (first of which is black screen version). I can give someone my flickr address and they can see all my images straight away.
- Johnny Worthington
@Thomas Hawk: Flickr has high quality photos, no-one's doubting that. But if that were the metric, Annie Leibowitz' personal site would be "most successful" or something. As far as adoption, there are lots that outstrip it: WebShots, Kodak, Photobucket, ImageShack, Facebook, etc. Financial too: Photobucket sold for $300M, Shutterfly had succesful IPO, Facebook's photo sharing piece is clearly valuable, etc etc. It's just a bad characterization for a great site.
- Don MacAskill
So what site has best combination of images, users, quality, community, finacial stability, user-based finacial oppertunity and (general population) brand awareness?
- Johnny Worthington
John -- you say only 200 people can see your images -- are you sure? -- Facebook has a feature/hole that lets anybody see them - http://radio.weblogs.com/0127028...
- Brian Sullivan
@John I started posting to Facebook for dance-friends, but it was too hard for dancers to signup, so I moved to Picasa. I'm reconsidering & wondering what to post to Flickr and what to Picasa.
- Mitchell Tsai
@John Worthington: I question whether we're that far ahead of the curve. That we pigeonhole all photo-centric sites into one category shows how primitive our thinking is. Imagine a discussion about which is a better text-sharing site, craigslist or friendfeed. Discussing which of flickr or smugmug is the better photo-sharing site is almost as nonsensical. It depends what you want to do with your photos.
- Bruce Lewis
@Bruce My point was that we are discussing this topic in a closed enviroment. Go to any local supermarket and ask random people where they would put thier photos online. I bet you the default reaction would be "Why would I do that?". The question of who is the most successful (not the best) has not even begun to be decided. My mum (50ish, love ya mum) knows about Flickr cause I showed her my stuff. She then sent the link to my sister and she was "What's Flickr"? Until the general public 'switches on'....
- Johnny Worthington
And anyway, the article said 'most successful' not best.
- Johnny Worthington
@John Point taken. You're right that it's too early to tell who will be most successful.
- Bruce Lewis
Summize now shows where Twitter TinyURLs go http://flickr.com/photos...
Steve Daly, Scott Moskowitz, Ricky Engelberg and 11 other people liked this
Steve, per our phone conversation, this is the kind of stuff I was talking about. For certain people this is news. For many, it's too small to possibly care about. I'm one of those people who cares about things like this (as are you, obviously). :-)
- Dave Winer
Chris, they've had it for a while. But it's a good idea to talk about it anyway.
- Dave Winer
Our Power Twitter FF plugin has been doing this for over a year while browsing the main twitter site...
- Narendra
@Dave, totally!
- Steve Rubel
Essay: Friendfeed Can Disrupt Search and Reshape Advertising http://www.micropersuasion.com/2008...
Zulu, Brian Sullivan and Steve Isaacs liked this
Good grief Steve. Friendfeed is what del.icio.us should have become but it will never be mainstream and comparing it to Google just undermines your credibility completely.
- Narendra
It may not be Friendfeed who finishes first but they certainly started the race.
- Steve Rubel
Until OpenID type standards become pervasive, I doubt any of these sites have a significant shelf life of more than a year. Social sites are becoming flashes in the pan because people gather their friends, sign up, after a week leave and go to next site.
- Sebastian Lemery
Cutting tons of Tartine bread
How many people do you folow on Friendfeed? I track 41.
Stephen Jones, Andrew Badera, Jack Baty and 13 other people liked this
404 here.
- Andrew Dobrow
162...but I hide all Tweets without likes or comments.
- Chris Rossini
124
- Morton Fox
28 and already too noisy
- Narendra
Subscribed to 124, have 125 subscribed to me.
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
68 Holy crap!
- Michelle Marie Miller
306 -- I hide and scan A LOT
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
2500+
- Robert Scoble
149
- Mitchell Tsai
486 and growing
- Stefan Hayden
78, growing but slowly.
- felix
103
- Nathaniel Payne
right now 22, but the "friend of" feature blows it up a bit
- Andrés David Aparicio
from twhirl
About 215. Added a lot last week to diversify my FF base, but like @shey I've started hiding and scanning a lot more than in the past.
- Mike Reynolds
Only 12 at the moment.
- Traci Knoppe
71
- Andrew Smith
311
- Amir Beitollahi
42 and also hiding tweets
- Eric Johnson
80 so far. looking for more people who are following the US election closely.
- Derek van Vliet
from twhirl
I am following 30 and the signal->noise ratio is pretty good! I am a very reluctant to adopt a large number of followers at once, I like to phase them in gradually.
- Nicholas Kreidberg
Just you Steve. Just kidding. 30.
- Andy Roth
I follow following my mood and then I discover people, I like it when we share some interests...
- directeur
181 i think
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
An even 44 for me.
- Tom Landini
(11*5)
- Kevin Johnson
146 at the moment
- Mack D. Male
106 here. More is better, just love the streams of info.
- Dion Hinchcliffe
from twhirl
102... @Andrew couldn't find?
- Daniel Shaw
138 + 6 imaginaries (hiding uncommented and unliked tweets)
- ha3rvey (Ho)^3
61 or so, so far
- Simon Bisson
from Alert Thingy
228 + a few imaginary friends who are sloooow adopters (dang it!) 700+ on twitter is easier, ha, ha!! and 985 on LinkedIn is even easier than that!
- Susan Beebe
160, goes up daily.
- Mark Trapp
1947
- Thomas Hawk
couple of hundred, fluctuating...
- Jeremy Toeman
72
- Atul Arora
125
- Alejandro
79 here
- Mike Doeff
226
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
177
- edythe
Darn, just under 2,000 though I should hit 2k before the weekend.
- Colby Olson
Some insane numbers there. I am only following 98 people. Maybe that is the reason I didn't make much use of the 'Hide' function yet, while others claim it is mandatory.
- Thomas Frütel
I am following 149
- Christian Burns
81
- Torsten Eckert
everyone I fucking can.
- Noah David Simon
659 and counting. Probably over 700 when I catch up with the latest batch of followers.
- Duncan Riley
Honestly, I don't really feel like I'm following anybody in particular - just everybody I see. I'd rather view the "Everyone" page than anything else.
- l0ckergn0me
339 so far. I might have to hide some of the twitter feeds soon.
- jjprojects
too many languages I don't speak in the everyone page
- Noah David Simon
@noah i agree
- Tyler Gillies
Google's New Favicon - http://blogoscoped.com/archive...
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Andrei M. Marinescu, rahul, Wil and 33 other people liked this
Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I like the old one a lot better. Where's the color?
- Bret Taylor
i don't know, i kind of like the new one
- MG Siegler
The old one looks way better imo
- Bartek Ciszkowski
Old was better!
- Jigar Mehta
I like this one, but it just doesn't say "Hey, I'm Google"...It's nice. Just not for Google. FAIL...via feedalizr
- Corvida
I agree with Bret and Bartek, old one is way better
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
dislike.
- Andy Roberts
old ftw
- Morgan
Change sucks! Who moved my cheese!?!
- Bwana ☠
the old one has a lot of brand recognition... the new one feels... rather web2.0ish
- Bastard Operator From FF
I'm with Bret. The colors and border make the old one more distinctive.
- Hutch Carpenter
you know you are the biggest baddest ass in town, when you change one small thing like a favicon and the whole world notices......via feedalizr
- John Kotsaftis
The old one was better. Old habits die hard.
- Louis Gray
Old one is better, new one looks like an 8
- Steven Cains
I like the old one; needs color. The new one looks really tiny for some reason (probably the lack of the box)
- Benjamin Golub
I kind of like it, actually -- sometimes change is good.
- mathew ingram
I feer change. I will now go hide until I am used to this new one.
- jason burton
I much more prefer the old one, it's sort of etched into consciousness now...? Weird
- Mario Olckers
Google is now the little g. As a company gets more and more dominant, perhaps its wise to speak more softly?
- Ranjit Mathoda
I like the OG G better (agreeing w/comments on color and lack of brand recognition, though if they stick with it we'll prob all get used to it soon enough)
- Dan Hsiao
@Dan me too.
- David Ambrose
wow, that is random. don't like the new one at all
- Narendra
Sometimes change is bad..... Old one said Google to me.... New one says the "g" from Prodigy (how's that for old school?)
- Chris Reed
I'm ambivalent. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. What I wish for is a branding system where each property has a favicon that is readily identifiable as a Google property, but also as its own property. Seeing the 'g' on the Google News homepage is wrong when you also have a Search Results homepage open. Oddly, Google Finance has no favicon at all today.
- Kevin Fox
Is this some of that A/B testing they talked about in the keynote? I'm still getting the old favicon.
- Frankie Warren
argh. lower case and roundy wins again :(
- Sanjeev Singh
I guess it's time to change the 'Google Shared Stuff' favicon. :-)
- Kevin Fox
Aw, shoot. I liked the old one a lot better.
- Jennifer Dittrich
old one is better!
- Alexander Rode
neither of those are very good. but the new one reminds me of goodreads.
- mrshl
DO NOT WANT. Old one was better. FAIL.
- Voyagerfan5761
Since when does Google wear purple? :-) That G is totally purple, not blue, at least in my browser.
- Alex Cristache
Having a lowercase g as the favicon does not do the site justice if they have an uppercase G in their logo. Especially the font design they chose. Many of us will fail to recognize Google on feeds and bookmarks anymore.
- Josh Jenkins
In super-seekret testing over the last few months, UGLY.COM users preferred Google's new favicon 3-to-1. : ^}
- David Newman
As a standalone I like the new favicon design but I don' think they should have changed. Branding is branding.
- Keith - @tsudo
Kind of reminds me of AT&T. Whoops. I meant at&t. They're a whole different company now. They're using lowercase! (Also interesting to not that the logo still uses a capital G)
- Robert Felty
Bring back the old!
- Soup
Yeah, I do the old one better than the old.
- Aaron Myers
yup the old favicon was way better
- alfred westerveld
google is a lower-case kind of company. It fits.
- Bradley Taylor
I *really* don't like the new one! :(
- Clay B.
geocities!!! you know geociti... oh nevermind
- Fred Chung
I saw it today for the first time. I don't I like it that much.
- Peter Stuifzand
sorry, i think they both kinda suck...
- dave mcclure
Erm, guys? It's just a little picture of a "g". ;-)
- Slappy Line
I like the old one better.
- mjc
I am a fan, I like the new design! It grows on you!
- Joe Dawson
I like the new g, but I'm still not seeing where the gradient (or shadow or whatever) fits into the grand scheme. It looks a bit out of place in a lot of browsers.
- Andrew Bonventre
FriendFeeder's on Gillmor Gang, Friday, ,10:45 a.m. - http://www.ustream.tv/channel...
Mitchell Tsai, Susan Beebe, Russellreno and 16 other people liked this
Steve Gillmor and I spent all afternoon yesterday arguing about FriendFeed. Not quite that long, but it seemed like it. He thinks Twitter is the center of the world. I think FriendFeed is. Tomorrow Bret and Paul of FriendFeed will be on the GillmorGang. Listen in live and join the chat room.
- Robert Scoble
I know how to beat Gillmor in an argument about Twitter, ask him to go do what he claims its good for. When it doesn't do it, his argument fails. :) It's hard to argue for Twitter when it's in maintenance mode.
- Bwana ☠
Bwana: he'll answer "keeping up on your friends in real time." He really liked Twitter's "track" feature so he could see in real time when people were talking about something, even those he didn't follow. I agree with him on that. It's a major feature that FriendFeed is missing.
- Robert Scoble
Question is, do we have to argue. Not all things are meant for all people. I love Twitter AND FriendFeed. Each has its place. Just never get these arguments.
- Deepak Singh
:-O "The Scoble" has mentioned an advantage of Twitter over FriendFeed... /me goes away to find the crack in the space/time continuum.
- Matt Shaulis
Deepak: arguments aggregate attention.
- Robert Scoble
Can someone make sure Gillmor allows Paul and Bret answer questions fully instead of coming up with a "gotcha" every 5 words like he does with other guests?
- Mark Trapp
Robert: Point is..track isn't working right now :) I'm just joking but you understand
- Bwana ☠
Matt: there are six advantages of Twitter that I know of over FF: 1. Real-time. 2. SMS compatibility. 3. Track. 4. Installed base. 5. No nodes (also a disadvantage). 6. Real reverse-chronological view.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: it's Gillmor Gang. His name is on the show. Everytime I try to tell him how to run his show he reminds me of that fact. Bwana: agreed, but I'm talking about Twitter when it's funny on and running. When Twitter is down obviously FF has tons of advantages.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: FF "feels" real time... in a 2002 sort of way... I used to *wait hours* for a forum reply. Here you have replied almost instantly!! (then again, it reminds me of those good old days in a lot of really fun ways!!)
- Matt Shaulis
Matt: you and I both know that FF is pretty damn real time. Gillmor wants to see a little thing happen on his screen everytime I hit "enter."
- Robert Scoble
I think Gillmor is just reaching. It happens when the writing is on the wall.
- Bwana ☠
One could make the argument that real reverse chronological view is also a disadvantage, since items attracting interest don't flow up to the top. I think the biggest advantage of Twitter is simplicity...
- Ontario Emperor
from fftogo
I can definitely respect the need for realer time commenting. On several occasions I'll be commenting on something only to find out after I've clicked post someone already made the same comment, or the conversation took another turn. There's gotta be a better way to handle real-time conversations on Friendfeed than rapidly clicking refresh and praying.
- Mark Trapp
I was really loving Twitter. I was using it to talk to RTM. I was Getting Things Done. Then, Twitter decided it would randomly go away. I was traumatized.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
And Robert, understandable: I wonder how many people are listening to his show not for his "gotchas" and "insights" but for the 5 second nuggets of information from his guests. But you're right: it's not TrappGang.
- Mark Trapp
Both twitter and ff are the center of the world for a very very small portion of the world. twitter is a small subset of blogging and ff is a small subset of feed readers. It will be extraordinarily hard for them to push past that.
- Narendra
The longer Twitter is in maintenance mode, the less relevant it becomes. It's easy to forget why you love it if you learn to live without it.
- Bwana ☠
Mark: that's a really good point... someday it will all come back to 1996 and we will get IRC, difference being that it will happen over HTTP. :) "old" is the new "new"... like seeing all the kids in 1980's clothing... In Web 3.0 the trend will be nostalgia??
- Matt Shaulis
Robert: Won't deny that, and being opinionated is good. Religious debates on the other hand tend to become too black and white :).
- Deepak Singh
Matt, exactly: as much as it's sort of become a footnote in internet history, I haven't found a better medium for real-time collaborative conversations than IRC. Even IM and XMPP can't hold a candle to it. I'd like to see IRC principles make their way back into social media.
- Mark Trapp
IRC is and always will be my favorite internet medium.
- Bwana ☠
mark: me too. Just like FriendFeed has re-awakened my love of the Bulletin Board format... (let's face facts here after all)... I have/had hopes of Twitter being the IRC comeback kid... in a new-web sort of way... :-\
- Matt Shaulis
I always thought of Twitter IM/Jabber as a worldwide IRC chatroom with your own filter (track feature). That is what *really* hooked me into Twitter.
- Bwana ☠
Bwana: Yup. Same here. That's how I tend describe it to my uninitiated peeps even.. almost word for word... hehehe. I sure do miss my twitter IM. The past couple days, though, it has blipped out the occasional tweet... it's like a toe wiggle... such a sign of hope!
- Matt Shaulis
well since friend feed includes twitter i think friend feed is the center of the world
- Tyler Gillies
FreindFeed includes twitter? (Thank heavens for the "hide" feature)... lol
- Matt Shaulis
I like both, they are different beasts. Twitter is better for mobile and "live stream" while Friendfeed it the center of conversation. I get many more comments on FF than on my own blogs these days.
- Loic Le Meur
Listen in live here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel...
- Mike Doeff
ff has the most unusable design (read headache inducing) ever. Please give us control of the CSS. Lose the underlines on links. I want to use this service but I can't even read the page.
Noah Carter liked this
hmmm.. I actually like the layout.
- Thomas Hawk
the layout is fine. the heirarchy of text and colors and underlines just doesn't work for me. the emphasis is wrong in many places.
- Narendra
Narendra, you can use firefox and customize your experience using userstyle firefox extension.
- Atul Arora
I disagree...I actually find the layout very usable.
- Mack D. Male
Yeah, I'm fine with the layout. Took a bit of time to get used to but once I did I appreciate the sheer minimalism of it. All data, no presentation flash.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I'll look at that atul. Just to be clear, I think that underlining and changing the color dramatically for Twitter in addition to having the favicon present is just noise. Bolding and underlining the protagonist makes it difficult to take in what action they just took. The size of the time stamps could be smaller or could be in the title tag on a hover. I think my main gripe is with all the underlining though.
- Narendra
I like it too, but I'm also more than happy to have choices. If they want to give us choices I don't think anyone would complain as long as the current layout was also an option.
- Bob
the underlining tells you that it's a hyperlink I suppose. It doesn't distract me -- but I'm certainly no web designer.
- Thomas Hawk
Also I do like the FriendFeed design - it is very intuitive and easy to use.
- Atul Arora
Underlines on links are really useful for quickly identifying what can be acted upon. The lighter color for comments seems appropriate (though a bit on the light side). As far as "controlling the CSS" goes there's always Stylish http://userstyles.org/stylish/
- Jason Wehmhoener
Sorry, I really like this layout. I think it's the most user-friendly social site I have used so far. Like it just the way it is.
- David Cook
I like the way Friendfeed looks. Some options would be interesting, though. Many people have complained about it.
- Alejandro
How To Get An RSS Feed Of Your Recent iTunes Purchases - http://www.webomatica.com/wordpre...
zeroinfluencer, Narendra, Jamie and 4 other people liked this
Love this idea. This is why I read blogs.
- Steve Rubel
good idea
- Tyler Gillies
Great idea that I bet not too many folks know about!
- Scott Jarkoff
just added my iTunes feed to FF
- Tyler Gillies
nice. you'd imagine that apple could make this just a *little* bit easier
- Narendra
I bet it will be an option in the next itunes version
- Jonathan
What in the world happened to 30boxes? Seems since Google Calendar appeared, they just gave up? But they just won a webware award? Confuzzled.
I know what you mean, I just created an account to check it out again and seems like they've added a bunch of social features, facebook integration, a buddies list, sharing to myspace etc. Too much useless crap for me though, Google Calender does everything I need.
- John Duff
On the Google Calendar note, it would be killer if they added a todo list feature.
- John Duff
todo list would be great in gcal, I agree John. But with 30boxes, it had the facebook integration etc. when I used it 18months ago! Nothing since =(
- Matt Harwood
We use 30boxes for Rocketboom and love it. I use it daily.
- Andrew Baron
Andrew: any particular reason why 30boxes?
- Matt Harwood
30B is very much alive and well -- over 400,000 registered users.
- Narendra
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