John: I remembered the flintstones' infant daughter Pebbles Flintstone after your comment. She was using a phone like this Stone, wasn't she? : )
- Erhan Erdogan
Still: the Apple Age 1976-2008. The Stone Age 3 million BC-3000 BC. Steve Jobs ain't gonna be around *that* long (barring major innovations in life prolongation that I'm sure he'd be able to afford.)
- Victor Ganata
For most situations, I prefer the iPhone. I get really bad reception with my rock.. and it's hard to check my stocks and get directions to the pizza joint with it. But it works great as a makeshift mallet for pounding tent stakes when camping! My iPhone's a little to fragile for that. At least my iPhone can double as a flashlight in a pinch!
- Jackson D. Carson
I'm sorry for this post, I wanna delete it now. :-) I had an iPhone gift and I'm very happy with my new Apple. She is really better than stone. http://friendfeed.com/e... :-)
- Erhan Erdogan
...because it has a touchscreen, right? O:-)
- Marcos Marado
Jesse, when i saw the title here, i wasn't sure if i'm worried as a user, or happy for the people who built FF, now reading, half way through, i'm calm :-)
- Majento
Majento, see my comment on the article - I think FriendFeed will be just fine. It's good to be a leader and not a follower. That's the role of FriendFeed IMO.
- Jesse Stay
Well, the headline of the article, doesn't have much to do with the content. But it's scary, how many comments bashing Friendfeed. I think FF needs advertising and a good PR campaign.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Ryo, i think the title's just fine, i hope my comment on post is clear :-) Jesse, thanks a bunch for sharing.
- Majento
by "click bait" you of course mean "awesome" right jason? :)
- MG Siegler
Majento, well it's just a bait. There is no evidence nor is the main message of that posting , that Facebook will takeover Friendfeed. Buut I learned something: Don't click on Techcrunch-Links. :)
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Facebook still has to move from being private-centric to public-centric.
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
"What most people seem to miss in the analysis of Facebook's latest feature is how different it is, in both intent and implementation, from FriendFeed's feature. It uses the same word, and lets the poster know you liked the story, but FriendFeed does something more: it shares that story to everyone that's subscribed to you.
- Mark Trapp
This is an AWESOME point. Also, clicking "Like" on friendfeed creates a database you can search against. My database has 16,000+ items in it. This is VERY HIGH value stuff. You can see my database of likes at http://www.friendfeed.com/scoblei...
- Robert Scoble
This observation appears twice. This observation appears twice. Good point, though.
- David Wilson
I just noticed that: it's been up since Feb 10th, and I knew there was something weird about it, but I didn't catch it until now. Fixed!
- Mark Trapp
Robert, good point, especially considering the new search engine that was rolled out. I think if you focus only on the approval mechanism of likes, you miss a good portion of the FriendFeed experience (and maybe even developer intent). It's not about patting each other on the back, it's about sharing and discussing content.
- Mark Trapp
I *like* to think that the database of bookmarks I have on delicious provide a richer search and retrieval system for my stuff than FF Likes. I'm a big fan of Likes, mind you, but regardless of how you use these features, "Likes" on FF/FB and "Favorites" on Twitter are pretty much a social bookmarking mechanism for web addressable URIs. Friendfeed goes a step further and blasts them out to your network of friends. Delicious has had that feature forever (network), but its kind of buried and not well known.
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
Yelp would benefit greatly from structure and user credibility. By structure, I mean separate scores for various attributes. For restaurants, these might be taste, originality, quality, ambiance, service, value. Free-form reviews like "This place is the best ever. 5 stars" or "The wait staff are rude. 1 star" are barely useful. A hundred-word recounting of the waiter's every nuance might be interesting to some, but a simple Service score fits the bill in most cases.
- Amir Gharaat
This structure also allows attribute search filters (I care about taste and quality, and not sensitive to service or ambiance.)
- Amir Gharaat
By credibility I mean peer "helpful" ratings and the ability to filter/sort by most helpful reviewers, not just those with the most reviews or friends. The Elite program is flawed... Yelp staff decide, not peers, and they encourage wit and wordiness. This doesn't scale.
- Amir Gharaat
Sounds like decent feedback, but has nothing to do with the article at hand.
- coldbrew
I read the article. Despicable if true. Seems like it should be pretty easy for a business to document more substantially some of these allegations, though. If I see more evidence, I'll personally boycott Yelp.
- Stephen Mack
I agree, I was really bothered by the article. If it's true, I'll boycott as well.
- Georgia Diehl
Sounds like the verdict *here* is across the board, "If true" :-) I'm guessing there would be complete agreement, as well, on the ease of taking screen shots? Come on...
- coldbrew
Also, this just occurred to me. Yelp has an API, and its content gets pushed elsewhere (like here on FF). If they were to remove reviews, this data would still remain. Archive.org also seems to have quite a cache.
- coldbrew
coldbrew, the main issue from the article is the order, prominence, and absence/presence of reviews on the yelp.com page about a particular business. Doubtless the RSS feeds are not altered. But you're right that it should be possible to put together some smoking guns.
- Stephen Mack
Yelp used to provide full RSS feeds now they are partial. WTF?
- ld
Well, I've lived in my town for about 17 years, and I know every establishment and many of the owners. Yelp seems reasonable for 99% of reviews.
- coldbrew
actually just a background color. headline seems a nasty trick for pageviews if you ask me! :)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
hey hey, i don't appreciate that Marshall. If you look at the image in the post - Google even has "Create a Custom Theme" in the header of that section of their settings http://thenextweb.com/2009...
- Zee.
ok, ok - maybe i was just heartbroken and took it out on you a bit Zee. :)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
I was so excited about this because I was bored with the themes offered. But every combo of colors I pick looks lame too! I'm just too picky I guess! (^_^)
- Meredith
Would be useful for google apps- company branded Gmail :)
- Roberto Bonini
Roberto: Yeah, if Google Apps had themes, the ability to create your own would be cool ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
You do realise that they extend their license to stuff you link to right? They can subicence as steve points out to their hearts content and you lose the value of your own content. I agree with your blogs sarcastic point about serving facebook. I made a similar one myself.
- Anton Mannering
from twhirl
I took a different angle on this too. I'm less worried about the things I know, and more worried about what we do not know. In essence we transfer all control to Facebook, but they are not transparent about what they actually do with our data. We don't know if we are signing up for the next best thing or selling our soul to the devil. Mark is answering the wrong question and we fell for it again: http://bit.ly/19GmYF
- Alexander van Elsas
BTW here is an excellent writeup of Amanda French comparing TOSes of different sites like Facebook, Myspace, Flickr, Youtube. Moral of the story? The uproar is justified: http://bit.ly/tJJBK
- Alexander van Elsas
As a person who builds very consumer facing products and features I believe it DOES matter. With power (175 millions users) comes responsibility. FB has an obligation to transparency regardless of whether there service is free, and it's TOU is one piece of that transparency. If you claim one thing and do another, or you claim one thing and then claim another thing because your business is changing, that matters...
- Ryan
Just read Alexander van Elsas post. We should be discussing this on his FF feed. Great post and insightful analysis. Glad to see someone actually read and posted the TOU.
- Ryan
Robert and Alexander, I have to agree with Robert. As I mentioned to you, Alexander, if you go to any institution implementing a GLS or CMS, you pretty much have to play by their rules and (having learned by painful experience) your data is not necessarily treated as if you are an esteemed author who could sue THEM for plagiarism. ;) That's as Robert says, reality. So I agree with his response.
- Melanie Reed
In the early days, I treated my portfolio as a catchall for everything. I went with the bait. But having learned who really has the most "rights" to it and then with their upgrade, having seen all my legacy RSS link and bookmarks destroyed I was forced into the realm of Robert's reality. Facebook, Flickr, etc are going to do what they are going to do. Now, I can adopt a strategy that serves my needs out of that....or not. I'm learning as I go.
- Melanie Reed
@melanie the most important issue is the lack of transparency. We are forced to give up everything while they do not. It is not an equal balance. Saying that that is just the way it is is accepting a bad practice that could easily be replaced by a good one.
- Alexander van Elsas
@Alexander I agree that lack of transparency is the important issue. Now whether I like it or not I have to try to understand the other party here. I can see (but not like) the effectiveness of the ad targeting FB uses. How pivotal is that to FB's revenue? Seriously, would any of us say 'yes' willingly to allowing ANY of our demographic information to be used by Ad customers?
- Melanie Reed
@Ryan, Your copyright is still valid and is not changed by Facebook's TOS. It you read their TOS carefully, you will find that by posting or sharing your content on FB, you are granting them an unlimited license to do whatever they want with your content. You still own the copyright, but it's value might be greatly lessened by allowing FB unimited usage rights.
- Jeff P. Henderson
What if I'm a unsigned and indie band that uses Facebook to promote our music in a group or fan page. Does the TOS give FB the right to "use, copy, publish, stream, store, retain, publicly perform or display, transmit, scan, reformat, modify, edit, frame, translate, excerpt, adapt, create derivative works and distribute" those works for commercial purpose?
- Matt Albiniak
@Alexander This brings up how business on the Internet is done. How do we want that done? How do we want businesses to conduct their research on target audiences? What should they know before hand in order to market to us? How do you want them to do that? I'm not fighting for their "rights" so much as I am asking that the methodology of what is acceptable marketing practice (that will be effective) is defined. BTW- I have a stake in this as our org has copyrighted material up on FB, too.
- Melanie Reed
@Matt, Based on my interpretation of the TOS, I would say probably yes.
- Jeff P. Henderson
@melanie my simple answer would be to choose a business model that monetizes user value. It would force you to do the right thing, always. Check out smugmug as a very positive example. They do not just have paying customers, they have paying fans!
- Alexander van Elsas
@Alexander If I understand you, that would indeed cause a problem that many are trying to avoid: disenfranchisement in the digital world. Not everyone is capable of paying. So as I understand it, thus the two-tiered system as Flickr does with their pro accounts and the free. So how do we address that?
- Melanie Reed
"Zuckerberg is saying: "We're not evil. Just trust us!" But this has been the mantra of nearly all companies that handle personal information. What company would say: "Yes, we intend to use your data maliciously and in ways you'll abhor"? There are many problems with Facebook's policy of 'trust us'" http://www.concurringopinions.com/archive... Solove, as always, gives an excellent analysis of the pitfalls.
- LogEx
@melanie, you do not have choose a model in which every user has to pay to receive value (although that is the cleanest model there is). freemium is definitely a great model too. Provide a service for free and extra's as a premium. Either way. A user centric model will ensure you give more value to the user than to anything else.
- Alexander van Elsas
@logical extremes, I recall banks and insurance comapnies saying the same things and look where that got us ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
@Alexander, exactly. Facebook should either drop the pretense, or adjust the TOU to describe exactly what they intend.
- LogEx
Matt, Melanie, etc...I'd definitely suggest you take 5 or 10 minutes, and go read the earlier mentioned comparison by Amanda French http://bit.ly/tJJBK . The differences between what MySpace, for example, asserts as a right over your data, and what Facebook does, are both real and relevant to any creative type. Amanda has ferreted out the relevant sections of the license terms for multiple sites, and compares and contrasts well.
- Ken Kennedy
Scoble's missed the boat, same as Chris Brogan. Facebook (and LinkedIn) has Terms that are NOT the same as everyone else's, and which, unlike MySpace, Flickr, YouTube, Picasa and Twitter, do NOT permit you to revoke their license to use your content. I dove into the legal issues here: http://is.gd/jJXy
- Maxwell Kennerly
@Ken, thank you for replying and @Alexander, thank you as well! Ken, I did read Amanda's post. And, with respect to you and others, I still agree with both Robert and Matt. And in regard to MySpace, they are the ones who allowed access to everyone's private data to the search engine Spock. That's why I don't use MySpace or Spock among other reasons.
- Melanie Reed
the point is if you upload it to facebook and decide later you want it deleted, and it's not deleted then....well it's nice to want things. I don't think this justifies the uproar, only that people should (have already been) thinking twice about what they put on those sites. It may, and probably won't, ever really go away once it's out there.
- Richard Lawler
@Melanie ... no worries! As long as you've got the data, you're more than entitled to make your own decision. If I were you, I'd keep stuff I want to monetize off of FB, though...you really have no control once you've uploaded it there. It's a walled garden that FB can cash in on as they will. (note: I expect this will get restated before too long...this is too big a grab even for FB, but as of now, that's how it works out).
- Ken Kennedy
@Ken, Interesting that you said that just now as there was a Facebook Ad, (company unknown as I didn't clickthru-that's one less cpv they'll have to pay for) that popped up on my right in Profile view that claimed "Monetize User Content" -"Grab content off your site from users and put it on T-shirts." roflol. This does provide some humorous aspect to me especially when you consider, I could get our ministry content out to a greater territory. ;)
- Melanie Reed
GOLDEN Rule: Don't put anything on any site/form/webpage that you may change your mind about. Once it's out there it will never disappear. imho
- walterh
@walterh, I hear what you're saying, and I definitely grok the spew of 'information wants to be free' (FTW!), but that's not really what's critical here. This is "boring" legal stuff...regardless of whether or not the data is available in some cache somewhere (which it is), this is FB asserting the right to use whatever you upload for it's own commercial purposes, forever. That's a whole different issue that "it never gets deleted anyway".
- Ken Kennedy
@ken I am not really trying to argue your points. I was trying to say that all forms like FB will at sometime try to sell your info when they reach a critical mass. A perfect example of this is the phone scam going on right now were people call you telling you that your car warranty will end soon. These people are calling me on my cell phone. I only give my cell to trusted contacts as it is the only real way to get a hold of me in real time. That so-called trusted contact or service has sold my info.
- walterh
@ken .....if you don't put personal info out on FB then when this happens you will not be regretting what you have done or posted.
- walterh
@walterh Just FYI, the car warranty thing isn't a sold data issue...it's just a "brute force" attack on phone #s (ie, they call them all). It's gotten so cheap to make phone calls, even LD, that much like email spam, the minuscule response rate they get pays for it. As for personal data on FB, again, I understand that, but it's not really what we're talking about. Consider a band that wants to share their music, but not intending to let FB monetize it if they get popular. They're out of luck.
- Ken Kennedy
So the expiry clause was in there when I signed up (i.e. if I leave they lose their rights over my content). If they have now changed the terms but I've not agreed to the new terms, then I'm not bound by them, right? Or did I miss a "we can change the terms whenever we feel like it and you're still bound to them" clause?
- Yan
@ken I understand your point. Let me ask you this. Has a case like this gone to court yet. PS the warranty people have never called me at home. Had that number for 20 years. Every other sale company calls me at home. I do see your point that it could be "brute force"
- walterh
The blog post has merit, the headline, not so much.
- jcunwired
I basically agree with Robert that this isn't shocking since Facebook hasn't respected user's much; however, I do think ascerting ownership to data already in the system crosses the line. This is similar to the Google Reader shared feed issue that Steve Gillmor railed on for a while.
- Robert W. Anderson
yeah, he reels em in with the hyperbole
- Josh Haley
hyperbole Josh? yeah that Bill of Rights crap is overrated. BTW Google fixed that problem.
- Steve Gillmor
Beyond the argument over who owns what and who's creating value for whom is a more interesting question, I think. Most people will not give a second thought to their rights to the intellectual property they create on Facebook. They just use it. They upload photos and videos and talk to each other. It strikes me that one thing Facebook is remarkably good at is capturing a user's...
more...
- David Erickson
hmmmm ... fascinating and important points being made here. However we are at the core talking about the morality and selflessness of corporations. The only way to own your own data completely is keep on your hard drive. Look at the terabytes of data Magnolia unfortunately lost last week. Their intentions were entirely altruistic, yet a technical malfunction intervened. We are in the midst of a radical shift and "ownership" is going to be defined by security, trust, and new elements ...
- Bankwatch
... that have yet to be defined. Do you trust Google? Do you trust your bank? Do you trust gmail Apps Premium? These are fundamental questions and the answer will define internet and our future. Market forces will take care of it, but getting there might be ugly.
- Bankwatch
It is a cheap and risk free business model for the service provider: The user generates all the content, is responsible for all legal consequences (even when the provider reuses the content in an unanticipated way), but the service provider may make all the profit out of it. whereever, forever. This business model was once called Web 2.0...
- Arnd Gronenberg
Great article. You mentioned 2 good points. First, put your stuff under public domain (or Creative Commons License), and that, if you use Facebook, you're the one who serve FB, not other way around.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
you're right. facebook should be used as a hub, flickr gives you CC options, it's not hard to set up a wordpress blog for the same, i think youtube are the last in the list. there's plenty of apps on facebook that will update your profile when you upload photos to flickr, or make a new blog post. they're not perfect but they're getting better.
- Terry O'Fee
To me it clear from Mark Z's post that the lawyers were tasked with drafting a revised TOU and blew it. ROLLBACK!
- Ryan
doesn't say much for their lawyers on the writing and the way the TOS was handled...
- Stuart Evans
from twhirl
This is the new age of transparency. The big CEOs will have publicly available pictures of them from college. Professional images will become humanized. Social media has allowed us to share everything about our lives and so we did. I thought Mark made a great point in his first post regarding the issue when he explained that in order to give the community the services that they want, certain legalities are necessary and must be represented in the TOS. We just have to get used to the new age.
- David Spinks
@David, if Facebook, and Mark Zuckerberg too for that matter, are just as transparent as they force you to be then it would be fine. Until that moment it is pretty ridiculous that privacy only works one way. You must disclose everything and they take it all without providing the slightest clue what they actually do with it
- Alexander van Elsas
I wish someone would analyze TOS that bank credit cards, mortgages impose. The funny thing is that while Facebook is having to backtrack - it probably never would have screwed us over - but banks that increase rates from 3.9% to 39% over night - regularly do.
- Anshu Sharma
Good post, Robert. It's always been clear that Facebook has put their own interest in content assets first, but in fairness it's not so different that way than say...Friendfeed. One does pay a certain price for posting in Facebook, but to reach those who are more interested in relationships than in marketing their content, it's a good price oftentimes. I do think that over the next year that more publisher-friendly terms will come to Facebook, they've been lazy and now they'll have to catch up.
- John Blossom
Yeah but, I don't know if I would have "loved" that picture of Mr. T and Chuck Norris, I mean I liked it but...I just think we should be friends.
- Joe Pierce
Just logged in for the first time and saw it... it's lovely! Maybe they should have it always... like next to 'Like' so we have the option to like or love something.
- Dee S.
hmm, what about posts i like, but don't really love?
- Charly
There should be an option for interesting, for instance I don't like placing a smiling face (or heart) next to bad news, I might find them interesting but they don't make me smile and I don't particularly love them either
- M F
so agree should make a lil pop down menu for dif reactions
- eric
true - when someone notable passes away, you don't "love" the news, but are glad to know. But I'm loving this "love" it for other kinds of things.
- Lisa Finder
These little hearts everywhere are really cute!!!!!
- Susan Beebe
31 Truly Romantic And Inspiring Examples Of Wildlife Photography - Opensource, Free and Useful Online Resources for Designers and Developers - http://www.smashingapps.com/2009...
"Who don’t want to get love or loving someone as it’s a natural feeling that can make anyone’s life more beautiful and full of fun. Our today’s post is about love, passion, sensations and emotions. All of us must have seen people who are in love but we are going to give you a look that can really touch your heart. These are 31 Truly Romantic And Inspiring Examples Of Wildlife Photography. For me, All of the photographs are wonders of the world because they are something that we could always wish to see and inspire. These really are classic creations of photographers who use their creativity with a different angle and approach to get the result that makes a difference and they are lucky that they got a chance to capture these terrific shots."
- Kol Tregaskes
from Bookmarklet
can you stick it to a mac first? :-) sure I want one (without the mac is also fine!)
- Orli Yakuel
Yes I want and coincidentally I've been researching printing stickers for Lifestream Blog as well. Look forward to trading with you at SXSW.
- Mark Krynsky
OMG OMG OMG!!!! I've never been so happy to see screen shots of a piece of software.
- Mathew™ one of a kind
@Mathew 1UP yeaaaaaahhhhh yet another browser! Only till one can compare to firefox...
- sofarsoShawn
I meant the UI doesn't feel right. I don't know what exactly ticks me off. It's a feeling. But like I said, maybe it's just me.
- vijay
Shawn what's your problem today? If you don't have anything nice to say STFU. @Mathew - actually w/out extensions wouldn't Chrome be like WebKit? I wonder how they differ.
- Mona Nomura
was just concuring w/ Mathew's sarcasm
- sofarsoShawn
Shawn what is your problem today? If you don't have anything nice to stay STFU.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
I think it's because the graphics are pixelated and the typeface is UGLY haha!
- Mona Nomura
from IM
whoaaaaaa chill or STFU take a joke
- sofarsoShawn
Shawn - can you stay off my feed today? Or until you get some coffee in your system please?
- Mona Nomura
im currently using chrome on pc but havent completely switched from firefox yet. as soon as chrome gets extensions. i'll probably leave firefox behind :'-(
- Alfredo
I guess it's the slanted tabs. OS X has only rounded rectangles. Those slanted tabs stand out like a sore thumb in OS X.
- vijay
The only thing that keeps me from ditching Firefox and running Chrome in VMware Fusion is the fact that Chrome doesn't have extensions yet. Overall Chrome is the best browser out there and really only needs a couple more things to take the number one spot.
- Mathew™ one of a kind
I don't really care what it looks like, I'm just excited to see if Chrome really handles separate instances better than Firefox or WebKit...
- Mona Nomura
from IM
It's a start, anyway. +1 for the Sad Tab
- Tyson Key
"As a challenge, we wanted to take on an interesting project that you would normally thing of as a desktop application, and see if it would fly on the Web. Being developers, why not develop something that we know and use every day. Our code editor. There are great editors out there, and we are partial to many. From Vi and Emacs, to Textmate and IntelliJ IDEA." http://tr.im/g11q
- Voyagerfan5761
from Bookmarklet
This is so cool! It could definitely be Textmate for the web. Being able to have all of your files and text editing environment in one place would be quite nice. Although, testing how that code would run may be a problem :P
- Brandon Titus
Great so I can upload all the Php code and edit and save on the web? A web based IDE?
- TrafficBug
I've found nothing better than Skitch. It's perfect for the key scenarios. Sometimes I fire up Paparazi (sp?) if I need to auto-scroll-capture a tall webpage, but otherwise Skitch kicks ass.
- Nate Koechley
This typo generator tool generates a list of common keyword misspellings based on the keyword combination or a single keyword entered into the search box. It can be useful to find some targeted keywords that are often misspelled by people on the search engines, Ebay misspellings and so on. It supports three keyboard layouts for various countries: english (QWERTY), french (AZERTY) and german (QWERTZ).
- Steve Allen
"Several new features are being planned for Firefox 3.2, Mozilla engineer Mike Connor revealed in an interview this morning. Among them... "
- Jonathan Kong