"The Internet is not about technology; it's about communication. The Internet connects people who have shared interests, ideas and needs, regardless of geography." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
I like it, but I think it doesn't go far enough. The telephone allows you to communicate. But when you hang up the phone the call is gone. The internet has persistent objects that can be manipulated, so it is also about cooperation and collaboration.
- Neil Kandalgaonkar
Technology sure makes that communication much easier, though. Long live Friendfeed!
- Josh Haley
from iPhone
I always thought the Internet was for porn. At least that's what I learned one year at SXSW.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you still owe us (me and Joge) $5000, btw ;-)
- directeur
I think porn falls under the connecting people with shared interests and needs. ;-)
- Brian Sullivan
Hmmm -- I think saying the" internet is not about technology, it's about the communication" is like saying driving is not about the car, it's about the journey. I like John Dupuis' way of putting it -- the communication part was an emergent property -- Michael Neilson has interesting things to say on this topic, too, but I've gotta dash so I'll link later.
- Mickey Schafer
YAY, I love the internet. Couldn't agree more. GLOBAL unfettered communication amongst all peoples, socio-economic class, philosophy, etc. is what it's all about; whereas, the technology is there to support the communication layer. THAT is very important in the DESIGN of Information Systems.
- Susan Beebe
The following (wild) question just dawned on me: If in 1440—the approx. year of Gutenberg's press—a global electronic network had magically emerged instead, A) What purpose would the power structure at the time deem for it, and B) How would it actually be used within the first few decades? Hundred years?
- Micah Wittman
Neil: different communication formats have varying values for similar properties, such as bandwidth, delay, and rate of decay
- Mike Chelen
Neil: Good point about persistence, except that Twitter has objects called tweets that last only about 7 days ;)
- Alex Schleber
Alex: one compensating strength is that posts are publicly web accessible, allowing them to be independently mirrored
- Mike Chelen
High communication: words. Medium communication: pictures. Low communication: grunt, poke.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Internet = TV + Radio + Books + Newspapers + Magazines + Telephone + Soapbox + [add your medium] = Media melting pot
- Ciro
Actually, the Internet may be about the incarnation of cosmic consciousness, and may not be primarily about anthropocentric intraspecies communication. I only half jest -- sometimes species are only vehicles that don't necessarily understand their function in the big picture, or what they are birthing. With the Internet, one senses something trying to pull itself together that is bigger than human.
- Sean McBride
let's say it again: it's. com. mu. ni. ca. tion. :)
- Alberto D'Ottavi
+1 Mike Chelen; to Ciro, Alberto -- conflating function, social value, and technology diminishes the ability to understand what the "internet" is/does/could be, etc. The internet is not portable; certain technological devices are. The infrastructure that supports portability is inconsistent; radio rarely is. It's very difficult to "listen" to books using the internet; the internet is...
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- Mickey Schafer
I agree with you 100% - The connections made here can't be made anywhere else! The transparency and accessibility of people, good people, is prevalent!
- Angels In Action
I didn't read all the comments above, but I don't think it's just communication. It's also about knowledge, data, availability of knowledge and data. creativity, etc... I'm afraid with this situation of lots of social networks people are a bit too preoccupied by the community-factor. Internet is more than that. Please don't forget that.
- Ton Zijp
To Mickey: 1. "The Internet is not portable; certain technological devices are." splitting hair...Give me the Internet without the "technological devices" as you call them. 2. "The infrastructure is inconsistent..." Video is video, audio is audio...otherwise the TV is also inconsistent and so is the radio and books, I digress on this one. 3. " And I believe it is actually important to...
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- Ciro
Ton, I agree! Ciro -- As someone who teaches undergrads who have to use technology and the net, I can't afford to be blithe about "they can if they want to". One of my interests is the relationship between discourse and behavior, so for kicks, I conducted a survey last year to get a feel for how students related to tech developmentally. One overwhelming result was that sometime during...
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- Mickey Schafer
I don't agree. Technology IS COMMUNICATION. Please consider W.J. Ong's Orality & Literacy or Pierre Levy's essays. Our literacy is still evolving and that's possible just because we can write (and communicate) with different technologies. So... Nice quote indeed, but wrong.
- Matteo Balocco
Bruce: language, art, and gestures are all forms of communication technology, each of which can be used to greater or lesser effect
- Mike Chelen
Internet is technology, great and simple technologies which work well and so you can focus on communications stuff
- Luca Zappa @zaps
Mickey: internet access may not yet be a universal commodity like paper, yet this property can shift rapidly in degree, redefining its qualities. regarding user expectations, to some extent this may be addressed through improved software design, for example google docs automatically save every few seconds
- Mike Chelen
Matteo: is that different from saying that all communication is a form of technology?
- Mike Chelen
Mike, I'm afraid it is different. While communication is a natural competence shared by all the living beings, technology is just an optional layer for just a niche of them. So we may say that all the technologies carry some informations (and we must consider them communication) but certainly not all communication is a form of technology.
- Matteo Balocco
However we agree that this is nothing more than an academic discussion. The quote by Taylor is still really good for some slideshows. :)
- Matteo Balocco
Mickey, thanks for your feedback. I don't disagree with any of your latest observations regarding the importance of keeping machine (medium) and internet (content) separate and the dangers of not doing so...My point was simply directed at the idea that in the context of pure content utilization, the hardware such as the cables (or airwaves) as transport media and content presentation...
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- Ciro
Do I hear a +1 for foci, vertices, matrices, and octopi? What about unices and vaxen?
- Joel Webber
Paul is making two points here. One: People aren't wearing enough hats. Two: To truly focus on something requires sacrificing attention not only toward the distractions of everyday trivia, but even toward other important things.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Whatever the plural is, I don't care anymore and I suggest to call it: Haley (plural of Focus)! Josh, you made my day! :)
- directeur
Bruce gets it (except for the part about hats?). You can't be "focused" on ten different things.
- Paul Buchheit
So like 'I got my mind on my money and my money on my mind...'
- Johnny Worthington
Yes, admittedly I haven't fully grasped the hats part yet, but I'm researching it. Are there any good sites out there that explore the hats issue?
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
I meant that I don't know what you meant by "hats". It was only one point, not two :)
- Paul Buchheit
One point, yes, most certainly. One point with two parts, which will meld together into one coherent whole once I understand them. I found a starting point for my hats research: http://www.google.com/m...
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
I'm disappointed by the shortage of Monty Python fans here. I was expecting other people to jump in with hat queries, but they never came. "Meaning of Life" isn't one of their better movies, but that particular scene has really funny self-referential humor that is apt any time the topic of avoiding distraction comes up.
- Bruce Lewis
Worth watching by the way. Pretty funny, especially now.
- Paul Buchheit
It would be interesting to see this repeated in 2009.
- Paul Buchheit
Better known as "why tech bingo questions are worthless in interviews."
- EricaJoy
I've heard about this before, but I never saw the video. As for the "celebrity" panelists, I've only heard of 2 - Paula Poundstone (who is often on NPR's "Wait! Wait! Don't tell me!") and Full House's Dave Coulier.
- April Buchheit
I like the stuff about parties too: "Mr Obama takes on the hosting duties on Sunday when he holds a Super Bowl party for both Republican and Democratic congressman, including members from the home states of both finalists - the Pittsburgh Steelers, whom the president is backing, and Arizona Cardinals."
- j1m
"Use the Meraki Wall Plug to cover large indoor areas with unparalleled speed. Simply plug it in to existing wall outlets to expand your network."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
I have a Belkin wireless repeater which is not as stylish, but works pretty well. Sometimes it can be a bit of a pain to get it to find the router if there was a power outage. I believe it was about $50, instead of the $179 Meraki wants. But after looking at open-mesh, that looks even better. Thanks for the info John.
- Robert Felty
Rob, who's to say that the Meraki wouldn't have similar trouble?
- Gabe
Meraki is not a simple repeater -- it forms a mesh using any number of nodes and gateways. They're mostly targeted towards apartment buildings, towns, and other medium sized installations. Gabe, they specifically mention a hardware watchdog to deal with power glitch induced problems.
- Paul Buchheit
@Paul - but is Meraki better than open-mesh?
- Robert Felty
I don't know anything about open-mesh Rob, but the Meraki team is really sharp, so I would bet that they are better.
- Paul Buchheit
Meraki and Open-Mesh use the same Accton hardware, but Open-Mesh uses opensource software based upon the same OpenWRT platform. See http://DailyWireless.org/2008... I posted the wrong link earlier.
- John Lam
It's really weird but they don't explain what it does on that page. It's as if you're supposed to already understand. What does it do? Now -- if my life depended on it, here's what I would guess that it does. 1. You have to buy two, no point buying just one. 2. You plug one of them close to your wireless router, plug the other one as far away as you like but on the same electric circuit. Now you'll have a strong wifi signal near the second one too. 3. Repeat as long as you're on the same circuit.
- Dave Winer
Now if that's what it does, what do they do (if anything) about older houses (like mine) with many circuits? I found I couldn't use similar technology (if it is similar) because of that problem. They really ought to explain the product not just the problem. In the end I just hired a contractor to put in wire, it was reasonably priced (actually not much more than the boxes) and works really well and is faster than wifi.
- Dave Winer
Dave, in the time you took to complain, you could have clicked the “Spec” tab on the page Paul posted. Both Meraki and Open-Mesh make a mesh WiFi router based upon older MIT RoofNet principles. For 25 years, i think, i've read your commentary and articles. Please don't get lazy on me!
- John Lam
"However, even more disturbing is who's bankrolling the 'No on 5'campaign. According to the Drug Policy Alliance, California's powerful prison guards union has spent close to $2 million dollars to lobby against the passage of Prop. 5. After all, overcrowded prisons -- In 2007, California declared a 'state of emergency' in the prison system because of the lack of bed space -- and more prison construction (in lieu of building additional public high schools and state colleges) are a financial windfall for prison guards, even if they spell disaster for everyone else. In addition to expanding drug treatment in California, Prop. 5 would also reduce minor marijuana possession penalties from a misdemeanor (punishable by a $100 criminal fine with a criminal record) to a non-criminal infraction (punishable by a $100 civil fine with no criminal record). Now who would be against that? If you answered: the folks who make their living by possessing a monopoly on the sale of legal intoxicants, you'd be correct! Accord"
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
Pete is a problem, yes, but her already-hormonal tween sister is like a demon from hell.
- Cyndy
When you find some, please mail half to me.
- Carla Thompson
Carla, you want me to mail you half of Sissy's hormones??
- Cyndy
that is actually true. valium stopped the histrionics, while prozac made it possible for us to jump into the daily corporate grind without losing our shit. if i had to choose, and i have experience in these matters, send me back to the V for Victory every time.
- jeneane sessum
I've never once played golf, though I did play miniature-golf a few times as a kid. Also, I occasionally hit golf balls with a baseball bat when they land in my yard. In fact, maybe I am an expert. I bet I could teach Tiger Woods a thing or two about the game...
- Paul Buchheit
It means you love the tranquility of a giant backyard with alot of ponds, sand traps, and holes in the ground.
- imabonehead
Paul, I laughed on reading this. Then something clicked (I'm a little slow) .. is this a comment on all the opinions flying around about politics?
- Stu Andrews
from twhirl
I drive by Google, Apple and Yahoo quite a bit. Am I an Internet genius now?
- AJ Kohn
Many people live next to roads. Still they can't drive.
- Jemm
can you see it from your private island? if so - absolutely...
- Frederic
I was just watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch... At 4:30 McCain explains that Palin understands Russia because Alaska is next to Russia. It's fun to watch people make such preposterous arguments, but presumably it works with a lot of voters.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul - 7 years on a golf course (when I was in my 20's). Ball came through the window once. (ugh!!!!). Played Tennis with the guy next door. Never lifted a club. My only motivation to even think about it is that some of the best biz deals are cut out there on the 9th .... or whatever they call it :)
- Charlie Anzman
I live next to a woman and I'm an expert on women, so I can believe that Palin could be an expert on Russia.
- Gabe
Of course you are! this is soooo logical (nice joke BTW)
- Susan Beebe
I live next to a missile defense something or another. That means I'm an expert on missile defense. The Pentagon should be calling any second now.
- EricaJoy
Seriously, I'm rewriting my resume and LinkedIn profile based on geographic proximity. I mean, hey, I worked near the White House back in the day - that means I've got 'executive experience'.
- AJ Kohn
Apparently familiarity breeds contempt... do you want to go to war with the golf course nearby? Sarah Palin is ready to invade Russia (she should really read up on her history, especially Napoleon... )
- Jason Carreira
I work at Walt Disney World. Does that make me the happiest person alive? :)
- Mike Reynolds
That may make you an expert on having golf balls land in your yard. :)
- Morton Fox
Oddly enough both of my brothers live next to golf courses...But only Ben, the middle brother, actually plays. Oh, and my soon to be brother in law manages a golf course.
- Alex Scoble
I love this new logic. I'm hoping Maersk will let me drive a container ship, since I've got a Bay view.
- mat honan
I live near Pennsylvania's capital, Harrisburg. I must have vast experience in politics.
- Shawn Farner
I live 5 miles from Fort Hood, the largest military post in the free world, I must know all things military. Maybe I can invade Russia!
- Michelle Martinez
Paul, you forgot to mention that you sometimes walk near or around the golf course as well. I can almost see your expertise growing.
- Clare Dibble
I am a Mexican-American Landscape Architect living in Coastal Florida. That must mean I am an expert in immigration, growth management and energy & environmental issues. Right? ;-)
- JA Castillo
JA, you should run for office then! :P
- imabonehead
That makes your home insurance higher than the norm!
- Mona Nomura
It is true that Alaska is the only state that borders TWO foreign nations. Is it then preposterous to say that the governor of such a state could have some experience in foreign relations?
- Kevin L
p.s. i live IN a golf course and am definitely no expert on the game
- Kevin L
Perhaps not an expert on golf, but there are things that you know about golf that many people who live far from golf courses don't know. For example, I would assume that any window facing the course would be endangered; based upon your experience, you would know differently. And if April is a golfer, you'll have even more perspective.
- Ontario Emperor
I don't play golf, but I do like returning the golf balls using an aluminum baseball bat.
- April Buchheit
Lol, the Buchheits need an air-cannon!
- Slappy Line
I've been thinking a lot lately about confusion and how much information we humans throw away all the time. I think there is also a comforting side of confusion if you don't push too hard on it.
- Clare Dibble
I think many of us avoid confusion the same way we avoid physical and emotional pain. Confusion is intellectual pain. And if you are highly intelligent, confusion can crush your self-concept/ego because it reveals your limitations. But there is no real logical reason to avoid confusion. It is a result of attempting to understand.
- Steve Olson
I think confusion in a intellectual flowers into important thoughts and benefits everyone
- Aarthy
I agree with Steve. Many people (including yours truly) go as far as trying to avoid confusion altogether by not thinking, because, yes, it's painful and it's crushing to know that you don't know all that much. But it's the realization of your own intellectual limitations that's important in fueling that desire to learn, imho. I find that intelligence is more about knowing you don't really know all that much and being open to learning.
- April Buchheit
@Aarthy: I'm confused _all_ the time. I don't see how my particular brand of confusion is beneficial to anyone. I'm confused by my own confusion.
- April Buchheit
April, When I was a student I was afraid of being wrong so I avoided confusion. It seems as though I was taught that not knowing was a bad thing, so I stuck with safety, what was known. Now I love confusion, because I realized later in life that feelings like confusion and anxiety mean I am approaching something worth doing or knowing.
- Steve Olson
I feel that it is important to feel and not to think to much about something because that can lead to rationing your thoughts onto something and finding it hard to let go, I think that if I feel that I'm thinking then it takes you down roads which become harder because you are no longer feeling the thing you are thinking and so make decisions which mean that you plan and thus time of doing becomes a time about thinking of doing and not much gets done. Anyway I feel that I'm hungry and foodstomp time.
- Jason
Feynman's writing shows a guy who had thought a lot about confusion and ignorance, and had many strategies for dealing with it. Basically, he had a theory of his own ignorance. Seems like a useful model to emulate.
- Michael Nielsen
Saved some else's life from certain death.
- Susan Beebe
Get into a traffic accident that wasn't my fault, but totalled my car and gave me a new outlook on life.
- Robert Scoble
Had premature infants that stayed in the hospital nearly 3 months.
- Wayne Schulz
Unusual and life-changing. Being hit by a car while riding my bike. I was pretty much uninjured (physically) but it taught me to do more, live more, appreciate more.
- AJ Kohn
I've had a few experiences that I'm not comfortable posting about here, but one thing was that I was attacked with a sword when I was about 20 years old. I wasn't hit, but my friend who was attacking me sure tried for about 30 minutes until my other friends subdued him. It made me completely re-evaluate whom I was going to associate myself with.
- Andrew
Spent 3 months during the monsoon season in Goa with my best friend, no other 'westerners', and nothing to do except be there. With issue #2 of Wired magazine bought in New Delhi on the way there being the only 'tech' in sight.
- Robin Barooah
Serving in the Peace Corps in Guatemala for two years
- Shannon Jiménez
unusual? I guess the party I went to last night was the most recent
- Prolific Programmer
Wow! These are such great comments I couldn't even begin to compose my own...
- Czar
other events: 5 yrs old - Finding my dad dead (my brother was with me 7); having to watch my Mother cry and run out of the house.in horror.
- Susan Beebe
Support/be there for my family at the age of 12 during my fathers suicide and my mothers run-in with breast cancer.
- Colby Olson
There are two events I always reflect on and consider to be turning points in my life. First, taking a post-graduate year in the UK before going to college. Second, my first true open water scuba dive.
- Kevin D. White
Heard, "omg I'm pregnant." That completely and totally changed my life. For the better!
- Tad
Colby: My Dad committed suicide too... I feel you pain for sure!
- Susan Beebe
hit a guy with my car.. I thought he was dead. He had to be airlifted, but fortunately he was ok. It wasn't actually my fault, he jumped out in front of me from a blind spot. I still felt horrible. I'll never forget that. I also drive even more careful now than I did before.
- Tim Hoeck
I'm inspired by the question and the comments. For me, what immediately comes to mind is this: my boxer had asphyxiated and his heart had stopped; I resuscitated him with CPR. It gave me 6 more years and an incredible bond with him, and a moment of clarity for which I'll always be grateful.
- Donna Mugavero
I went from $6/hour retail sales to $35k/year computer programmer in less than 2 years of hearing that.
- Tad
Watching my grandfather die in the hospital. Changed my perspective on things.
- Dave "Freedom 35"
wow. people who have had to experience the death of a parent through suicide or devastating illness--especially as children or teens... i'm amazed at your ability not to always hate life.
- edythe
I started going to college, 2 months later I started to work real jobs, just because I listed I was in college.
- Got80s
from twhirl
Volunteer work on a refugee camp in the occupied Palestinian territories... so incredible, I've done it twice and plan on going again
- Shawn Duffy
from twhirl
saving an extremely drunk friend who'd fallen off the pier into the sea...oh, it wasnt the act of saving him that was life changing. It was having everyone see me in my briefs right after - its been boxers ever since.... :]
- Zee.
not exactly something i did, but the event did change me...6 years ago a few days ago, lost a childhood friend to a suicide bomber while she was studying at the Hebrew University in Israel.
- Justin Korn
edythe, I don't like to dwell on it too much. The phrase that has been used in reference to me has been 'Death follows on his heels.' It's odd to say but I think that taking MDMA was what kept me alive and was the beginning of a new chapter of my life; the previous chapter ended with my father's death, my brief homelessness, etc. It was truly a life reboot.
- Akiva Moskovitz
My heart goes to those of you who lost a parent to suicide. My mother also committed suicide and even though I was the ripe old age of 26, she was my only parent so I was in a bit of a tailspin for awhile. Deciding to not immediately join my mother (just after I found her body) was the most life-changing thing I've been through. Though moving from Portland to San Francisco on my own is a close (and more positive) second.
- vicster is...
Responded to the holy spirit, repented of my sins, and trusted Jesus as my savior.
- Larry Huffman
Another one for me now that I think of it. A good friend of mine was raped. The compassion one might have for criminals goes away in a second when it is someone you know ... and then you figure out, everyone has a bunch of someones who are effected.
- AJ Kohn
Running away from home at age 17. It changed the course of my entire life, possibly in a good way.
- Shayna
from StumbleRead
shayna - good for you. if any of my attempts had been successful, i might possibly have ended up better off. but, anyway, really. that's brave. some people don't understand that there *really are* situations where the children know better than the parents.
- edythe
Getting over my "self", watching thoughts, and breathing.
- Brad Nickel
Mine seem mild be comparison to some here. Had motorcycle accident (not my fault), almost died, suffered nasty head injuries and as a result brain damage.
- Nick Cowie
Witnessing an unescapable destiny - a motorbike rapidly approaching my own bike sideways, ultimately hitting me. Result: one 5m somersault, one seriously dislocated knee, one broken finger, and one summer vacation canceled. Overall, it was a rewarding experience. Every moment since I value much more. Remembering every day, there's only one life, no matter what someone wants you to believe. ;-)
- Nenad Nikolic
from twhirl
I booked a flight from Louisville, KY to Washington, DC to attend the court session for Sibel Edmonds in front of Judge Reggie Walton. A link describing the event is here: http://friendfeed.com/e... . This event was life changing because it let me know how deep the cover-up of the truth about 9/11 went. http://friendfeed.com/rooms...
- bill giltner
Trusting my intuition, but learning how to develop it better. Never ending process.
- Alex Hammer
When I was 17, I had to identify my older brother's body. I was watching TV on a day off from school and I heard the doorbell ring. My brother had been missing for a few days, and for some reason I just knew it was somebody to tell me the bad news. It was a highway patrolman at the door with a Polaroid, and it wasn't pretty because they found him after being in Lake Erie for a few days. Then I had to go to my mother's office and break the news to her.
- Gabe
deciding to marry my wife, complete with her (then) 3 yo twins from her previous marriage. I've certainly grown as a man, father and husband since then - good times.
- Rob Inskeep
from twhirl
So many life changing things - Big one - Getting out of the Navy!
- Todd Jordan
Getting engaged. Didn't take, but I'd say that it definitely changed my life.
- Steven Perez
save myself from drowning at the sea without knowing how to swim
- Oscar Juarez
Attended the Landmark Forum that got me have much deeper perspective in my relationship and gotten married.
- BeeLing
proposed to my wife on our first date; got married 2 weeks later. (that was 12 years ago)
- dave mcclure
@mcclure -- really? i need to read more about that story. amazing.
- Christopher Sacca
I ditched my graduate studies in life sciences (only needed to complete & submit my thesis) and then switched to computer science.
- imabonehead
When I went to my first rock concert. It seemed like they're spinning magic from their guitars.
- Vamsee
picnicking with my girlfriend (now wife) on the top of a tea-hill in puncak, java...watching a little cloud drifting slowly towards us. a few minutes later we have been covered by small water particles :) it was a wonderful moment of pure beauty.
- Chris Hofmann
Dave McClure, your wife's name isn't Tina, is it? My first girlfriend and I dated for over five years, then she cheated on me with a guy and married him a month later. I'm just kidding around: the story's true but the guy's name was Sean I think.
- Akiva Moskovitz
taking a hike amongst the Terrence Rice cultivations in the Kodai Range ..was about 4500M, literally a walk in the clouds and walking thru villages that have had the same sustainable practices for over 600-700yrs ..
- Peter Dawson
Moved my family to California to intern at the best organization in my industry, not sure of job, and had all our stuff stolen along the way. But 2 years later it has proven to be the best career decision I could have made...
- Tony
Went through the devastation of an ectopic pregnancy.
-
dealing with my fathers' sudden death, now stopping to smell the roses as often as possible. life is too short to bother with B.S., enjoy life to the fullest, work comes last - I'd rather be happy, then rich.
- clarke thomas
I got bottled in a night club four times in the face and neck! Changed my style of dancing that's for sure ha!
- Joe Dawson
"But for every accommodating pal, there’s another who feels going under the knife is beyond the duty of bridesmaid. Becky Lee, 39, a Manhattan photographer, declined when a friend asked her — and five other attendants — to have their breasts enhanced. “We’re all Asian and didn’t have a whole lot of cleavage, and she found a doctor in L.A. who was willing to do four for the price of two,” said Ms. Lee, who wore a push-up bra instead."
- Ana
from Bookmarklet
"This fictional counterterrorism agent—a man never at a loss for something to do with an electrode—has his fingerprints all over U.S. interrogation policy. As Sands and Mayer tell it, the lawyers designing interrogation techniques cited Bauer more frequently than the Constitution. According to British lawyer and writer Philippe Sands, Jack Bauer—played by Kiefer Sutherland—was an inspiration at early "brainstorming meetings" of military officials at Guantanamo in September of 2002. Diane Beaver, the staff judge advocate general who gave legal approval to 18 controversial new interrogation techniques including water-boarding, sexual humiliation, and terrorizing prisoners with dogs, told Sands that Bauer "gave people lots of ideas." Michael Chertoff, the homeland-security chief, once gushed in a panel discussion on 24 organized by the Heritage Foundation that the show "reflects real life.""
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
If we have to put up with this stuff, the least the government could do is emulate the other aspects of 24 and actually develop some cutting edge technology for communications, transport, etc. Then it could all trickle into the private sector and improve the lives of the general public, rather than the current state of affairs where intelligence services are still waiting for the right procurement forms to be approved so they can upgrade from IE 3.0
- Christopher Sacca
The pro-torture propagandizing of 24 was a component of the overall neoconservative campaign, financed by MSM oligarchs like Rupert Murdoch, to destroy basic American democratic values and to support the drive for World War IV. (24, like Fox News and The Weekly Standard, is a Murdoch property.) Many high-level members of the American military establishment have strongly opposed the...
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- Sean McBride
Rupert Murdoch isn't a neocon, he just supported their agenda in 2000 and 2004. He likes Barack Obama, believe it or not.
- Kevin Fischer
We are running out of time. We are ALL running out of time.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Kevin - Murdoch has heavily promoted the neoconservative agenda for several decades -- he appears to be a true believer. One comes to this conclusion by content analyzing his media properties, especially Fox News, the New York Post and the Weekly Standard, and his pattern of hires. In fact, Murdoch is probably the most important neocon billionaire of them all. He has made some efforts to draw Hillary Clinton and Obama into the neocon fold.
- Sean McBride
Rupert Murdoch: pro-torture, pro-Iraq War, pro-Iran War, pro-World War IV, pro-neoconservatives, pro-neoconservative police state, pro-Likud, pro-Greater Israel, etc. The TV show 24 is one small piece of his overall propaganda efforts. He has written paychecks for dozens of leading neoconservatives over decades.
- Sean McBride
ba wah ha ha ha ha ha.... Kiefer Sutherland the Neo Con? come now. his dad would flip out if he heard you say that
- Noah David Simon
Noah -- a major breakdown in logic here. No one accused Kiefer Sutherland of being a neoconservative. Sutherland is an actor who is being payed to play a role. Think about it.
- Sean McBride
my family runs an acting studio. I am thinking about it. Kiefer picks his roles carefully. Acting is more then a mechanical craft. http://newsbusters.org/node... Donald Sutherland was a well known radical leftist.
- Noah David Simon
I love this show and will continue loving this show, no matter how political people try to make it.
- Shawn Farner
24 is my favourite tv show I watch it because it is entertaining and at the same time very exciting. They may fail to show that torture is not a very useful instrument in extracting information, but hey, it is just a tv show.
- Baard @ Pixum
The main creator of 24, Joel Surnow, has close ties to Rush Limbaugh and the neoconservative political network. Surnow deliberately used an entertaining show to promote propaganda themes that have been destructive for American interests, according to American military leaders who know that torture doesn't work and puts American troops at risk. Rupert Murdoch funded the entire project. There are important issues here that go well beyond entertainment.
- Sean McBride
We need an advisory rating system based not on age, but on how grounded you are in reality.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Does '24' encourage US interrogators to 'torture' detainees? http://tinyurl.com/5gwev8 QUOTE This week's New Yorker features a story about Joel Surnow, the show's creator and a self-described "right-wing nut," and includes the information that last November Mr. Surnow and the story's creative staff were visited by a brigadier general and three top military and FBI interrogators, as well...
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- Sean McBride
QUOTE (from CSM): This past November, US Army Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan, the dean of the United States Military Academy at West Point, flew to Southern California to meet with the creative team behind "24." Finnegan, who was accompanied by three of the most experienced military and FBI interrogators in the country, arrived on the set as the crew was filming. At first, Finnegan...
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- Sean McBride
I think the point of this isn't how good or bad "24" is as a TV show, but the fact that policymakers apparently have a hard time distinguishing between fictional entertainment and reality.
- Nathan Rein
Shawn Farner: what do you know about this topic that US Army Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan, the dean of the United States Military Academy at West Point, doesn't?
- Sean McBride
Great Jane Mayer video on the New Yorker site discussing the destructive effects of Joel Surnow's 24 in promoting torture: http://tinyurl.com/2ptfvz "In her article “Whatever It Takes,” Jane Mayer writes about the use of torture in the televison show “24,” and the politics of the show’s executive producer, Joel Surnow. Here Mayer talks about torture and television, with clips from...
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- Sean McBride
Nathan: in support of your point, from the post by Paul Buchheit at the head of this conversation: "Michael Chertoff, the homeland-security chief, once gushed in a panel discussion on 24 organized by the Heritage Foundation that the show "reflects real life."" Really disturbing stuff. (I'm guessing that Shawn Farner might be in his early teens.)
- Sean McBride
Nathan: it seems to me a key point here is that the entertainment side of the Rupert Murdoch empire is promoting the same pro-torture themes as the neoconservative policy wonks at Fox News, The Weekly Standard and The New York Post. This is a unified propaganda machine that has launched a devastating attack on traditional American values and done enormous damage to the image of the U.S....
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- Sean McBride
It's interesting that all the leftist propaganda shows on FOX and other networks don't raise this much comment.
- Robert Hafer
I have half a dozen friends who are or were Army interrogators, and none of them are trained to torture anyone. There IS a psychological component, of course, but BS like waterboarding is nowhere in any manual or course other than as examples of what NOT to EVER do. It's a shame all interrogators are now seen as torturers and depraved sadists, imo.
- abacab
from fftogo
abacab - you are expressing the views on torture of most of the American military establishment vs. the views of Hollywood neocons, chickenhawks and fantasists like Joel Surnow. It is quite likely that high-level members of the Bush 43 administration who are responsible for torture will be facing war crimes trials down the line.
- Sean McBride
Has anyone considered the fact that this isn't happening nearly as much as is being reported, and that the government *wants* the world to think we're barbaric to terrorists? Israel's Mossad can often extract information based on their barbaric reputation alone. As abacab says, no one most people know who are interrogators do this stuff. It's always odd media stories from "well placed sources" as well as governmental sources talking about this.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
@rizzn care to elaborate, better with proof?
- A.T.
There is overwhelming evidence to support the belief that torture committed by the Bush 43 administration, as at Abu Ghraib, has been real. There is absolutely no evidence to support the speculation that stories of torture are merely a form of psychological warfare. It's interesting, by the way, that nearly all the pro-torture ringleaders among the Bush 43 neoconservatives are closely...
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- Sean McBride
I'm by no means a Bush fan, but Sean, it's clear you have an agenda here and being so obvious about it doesn't make for a very convincing argument.
- Shawn Farner
Abu Gharaib was not committed by the Bush administration... it was committed by a bunch of kids without higher approval. It was wrong, no on condones it. The people that did it are being punished and frankly those people that committed the acts were reacting badly to being put in a war situation without adequate moral support of our citizens.
- Noah David Simon
you give me any war.... any riotous and necessary war in history and the most pacifist views will come from the soldiers that had to fight it. This is nothing new, but neither is the concept that there are some things that a nation must fight for.
- Noah David Simon
Shawn: I couldn't be more explicit about my agenda: I am strongly opposed to the mainstreaming of torture as acceptable practice by neoconservative media outlets like Rupert Murdoch's Fox News, Weekly Standard and 24. Do you have any factual information to add to the discussion? You didn't respond to any of the content in the Christian Science Monitor and New Yorker articles, which...
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- Sean McBride
Torture is not a core American value http://tinyurl.com/6xn5go "Apparently, fans of the Fox TV show 24 have forgotten just exactly what America's honor is really about. Up until the administration of fear and deceit, America was the world's leader in justice and integrity. We are signatories to the Geneva Conventions and the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhumane or...
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- Sean McBride
An excellent David Letterman interview with Jane Mayer on Youtube: "The Dark Side" 7/23/08 http://tinyurl.com/6pj4pr And a pointer to Jane Mayer's book on Amazon: "The Dark Side: The Inside Story of How The War on Terror Turned into a War on American Ideals" http://tinyurl.com/6f69v7 The subject of potential war crimes trials with regard to Bush 43 administration torture policies emerges in the interview.
- Sean McBride
I've always been skeptical about claims that violence on television leads to violence in the real world, but this is pretty clearly a real phenomenon here.
- Paul Haahr
This seems more like an easy way to intimidate others... Propaganda, really, for the bad guys: "Ever see 24 and all that asskicking? Yeah, we're just like THAT." while balancing the "No, we're not REALLY like that" angle here at home. Propaganda/disinformation campaigns really suffer from everyone being able to know everything everywhere these days.
- abacab
"The companies, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, have been hit hard by the mortgage foreclosure crisis. Their shares are plummeting and their borrowing costs are rising as investors worry that the companies will suffer losses far larger than the $11 billion they have already lost in recent months. Now, as housing prices decline further and foreclosures grow, the markets are worried that Fannie and Freddie themselves may default on their debt. Under a conservatorship, the shares of Fannie and Freddie would be worth little or nothing, and any losses on mortgages they own or guarantee — which could be staggering — would be paid by taxpayers. The government officials said that the administration had also considered calling for legislation that would offer an explicit government guarantee on the $5 trillion of debt owned or guaranteed by the companies. But that is a far less attractive option, they said, because it would effectively double the size of the public debt."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
"Even healthy banks are reluctant to tie up scarce capital by offering mortgages to low-risk home buyers without Fannie and Freddie taking the loans off their books. Together the two companies touch more than half of the nation’s $12 trillion in mortgages by either owning them or backing them. They hold more than $1.5 trillion of the mortgages as securities."
- Paul Buchheit
We had all those people making money flipping houses, building fancy new houses, using a home equity loan to buy new cars, etc. Where did that wealth come from? Us, the future tax payers paying off the bad loans. Nice.
- Paul Buchheit
@chriswhite why not to mix? trading commodity in mixed currency bag shares risks and leaves your moronic government with less power...
- A.T.
"It is virtually impossible to heel-strike with these shoes on. I thought I'd been incorporating Chi Running in my runs? Oh, so sorry. No. You don't have any appreciation for a soft landing, or picking your feet up, or having a quick cadence until you run with either the Five Fingers or barefoot. If you accidentally heel-strike, you instantly know it, and so do your molars. If anything, wearing these for short runs is a great calf workout."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
I've seen once socks with separated toes and they were hilarious! Not to mention they're practical as they keep perspiration at bay. Until these running shoes get adopted more widely, I would stick to more discrete socks for private laughing enjoyment. :-)
- Nenad Nikolic
I just got my classic (strapless) Vibrams; unfortunately the toe-fit seems a little off - it's like the toes are too short, but if they were any longer, my nail would be hitting (and getting ripped off by) the plastic toe-guard. I mostly just bought them to distress my partner - she hates stuff between toes.
- Glen Murphy
I've always wanted to try these out. wish they looked a little cooler though.
- SolidSmack
from twhirl