Ward Mundy › Comments

Steve Gillmor
Gillmor Gang, recording live today 1pm PST participate at http://www.building43.com/realtim...
can you see me on skype? I got a phonecall - Kevin Marks
I'm waiting for the SkypeCall. Hopefully my wifi holds up. - Robert Scoble
Anyone hear from Gillmor yet? Tina oh Tina, where art thou? - Robert Scoble
Hi everybody! - Francine Hardaway
Hi Francine! - Robert Scoble
Hi Francine. - Aron Michalski
Where are you where the wifi won't hold up? - Francine Hardaway
I'm sitting in the middle of USVP on Sand Hill Road. - Robert Scoble
It looks like it's doing OK now. Twitter and FriendFeed are streaming in fine. - Robert Scoble
Robert I'm going to an Apple store in Austin to get an iPad2, but not the downtown one - Francine Hardaway
Hi Aronski, I guess you are not touring lately - Francine Hardaway
It's the quiet season; I get back on the bird in April. - Aron Michalski
Just got the call, so we' should be on now... - Robert Scoble
Sweet! Doc is here... - Francine Hardaway
it's spelled John Borthwick, but it's pronounced Throat WObbler Mangrove - Kevin Marks
there's a lot of SKUs this time. 9 I count. 16, 32, 64 for Wifi. Same for 3G but x2 (GSM and CDMA). Plus they are still selling the old units.. - Jamie
Apps are definitely a deal breaker for me, personally. That said, we can't ignore these facts: 10 Reasons Why The Motorola Xoom Beats The iPad 2 http://bit.ly/gLfgpv - Nir Ben Yona
Can you take a photo with the iPad 2?? - Ward Mundy
The Air is light enough to use as a portable cam - Kevin Marks
said the connector was good for 1080p - Jerome Hughes
bingo Doc. - Aron Michalski
Yes, you can take a photo. But the camera is not all that good. - Robert Scoble
I'm conflicted, but I want to get one anyway. - Francine Hardaway
Even Hillary Clinton agrees - Jim Posner
You can read about the iPad 2 camera in this post: http://bit.ly/dYpwvn - Nir Ben Yona
narrowcasting=real name required. - Aron Michalski
I wonder if Doc has any comments re Monitor Consulting based at Harvard that took Libyan money to burnish the image of Gaddafi. Clay Shirky has been caught up in this as well. - Jim Posner
What's Windows? Old story, hardly news. - Michael Krigsman
All my documents are in the cloud. This is irrelevant - Francine Hardaway
Interesting article in Rolling Stone about the entertainers who took money from Gaddafi as well. - Aron Michalski
Why would MS want to support iOS? - Michael Krigsman
MS ship OneNote and Messenger on iOS - Kevin Marks
not that I can remember my Windows Live ID to try it - Kevin Marks
But today's MS doesn't compete on the bleeding edge - Michael Krigsman
Took him 10 years to port Mac OS as Windows. - Aron Michalski
Redmond fighting to restart developer interest in Sharepoint http://www.sharepointsaturday.org/ - clive boulton
The problem is not bleeding edge or not -- it's quality of design! - Michael Krigsman
The design sensibilities of the Mac create ease of use, that's the draw for so many new Mac users. - Michael Krigsman
mixing is a tactile experience; touch is a major improvement for Garage Band. - Aron Michalski
The leak of Remond talent to Kirkland turning to a stream - clive boulton
Robert, that VMware product you describe is fascinating! - Michael Krigsman
the difference is that on the iPad you can create the feel of an instrument - Kevin Marks
Steve, you are living in a future ivory tower that is far removed from the life of most of us ordinary users - Michael Krigsman
The 5th Beatle can be the mixer, directing the sound into a cohesive view. - Aron Michalski
GarageBand is awesome, but I really hope they'll have MIDI input somehow... otherwise, it doesn't make sense to play on the screen. - Nir Ben Yona
you mean Midi output, Nir? - Kevin Marks
MS was concerned about Linux going back to the 1997 timeframe - Michael Krigsman
Kevin: sorta. Something that will help connecting a Midi Controller. - Nir Ben Yona
In and out. - Aron Michalski
Not just MS either. I feel less compelled to invest in full Adobe Creative Suites. - Alex de Soto
conversation about iOS and iTunes begs the question ... what about the 'protesters' at the Apple event the other day ?? - studentforce
Canadian government cabinet ministers all have government issued iPads. - Brian Sullivan
funny .... my wife was watching a Xoom commercial yesterday and said ... "take a look at the Motorola iPad" its like calling a tissue a "kleenex' - studentforce
Hey! I have the 3GS still!!! - Alex de Soto
2.5G here - Jerome Hughes
I sold my 3G the day before the iPad2 announcement. Planning to buy a new one next week. - Michael Krigsman
With all that money in the bank, what's keeping Apple from going in the cellphone provider business? - Ward Mundy
Why waste money on ATT/Verizon 3G? I use my Android personal hotspot. - Michael Krigsman
Rumors Win 8 - further ahead on Tablet than letting on http://bit.ly/hA1e7d - clive boulton
Not sure iPad is really a text production platform though: http://damnyouautocorrect.com/6101... - Kevin Marks
finally an interface the granola boxers of the 60's can throw some shapes with. - Aron Michalski
Kevin: with a Bluetooth keyboard? Absolutely! - Robert Scoble
I have trouble blogging on the iPad. But I don't use the Bluetooth keyboard - Francine Hardaway
BMW had a L7 - Jerome Hughes
Windows L8 even sounds great. - Ward Mundy
Different circles - the last 4 people whose machines I jumped on had IE6 :-p - Denise Howell
not sure if I get Ditto yet. - Jamie
Jamie: the UI needs a little bit more work to expose what's interesting there. - Robert Scoble
ditto needs an iPhone and Facebook... - Kevin Marks
Denise: I only talk to the tip of the spear. :-) - Robert Scoble
I hope you fixed that for them, Denise - Kevin Marks
The Xfinity apps from Comcast are pretty good. - Alex de Soto
I have an iPhone and Facebook. What I need are friends :) - Jamie
Kevin: there are lots of computers in conference rooms, lobbies, etc that aren't upgradeable by users and no one cares about them to upgrade them. - Robert Scoble
It's becoming one channel, with multiple windows. - Aron Michalski
Someone should caption you with your (er) hand up Robert: "Talk to the Tip!" Re fixing, yes, immediately. - Denise Howell
Imagine; we've reached the point where we want less channels. - Aron Michalski
My gogoinflight+iPad experience last week didn't work, the iPad choked on that connection. Also the hotel's later. Annoying; was glad I had the Air along too. (The good news is both fit comfortably in a purse.) - Denise Howell
I know, Denise. I have both and take them both, too. But that's a problem - Francine Hardaway
They are protecting the interests of the corporation they are part of. - Aron Michalski
the chap gave me a channel list, and I had no idea which show is on which channel, as I use a DVR - Kevin Marks
The network blocking/non-neutrality actions of the providers will be the big issue. - Aron Michalski
Basic TV and Fat pipe for Google TV is what I have. - clive boulton
I get 22 channels over_the_air. - coldbrew
AT&T would give me free install only if I chose a TV package. I'll cancel it. - Kevin Marks
Even the Time-Warner on demand has half of the primetime offerings, then you have to shift to a different provider on their internet connection to watch Fox/ABC on demand. - Aron Michalski
make a good app and pay 30% and relinquish your direct relationship with the customer ..... any thoughts on this ?? - studentforce
The cable company bundling packages are non-sensical. - coldbrew
espn3 is an exception for sports games....watched bowl games that I couldnt get with my limited basic - dlature
It is signatory issues... Robert is right until the production structure of content is changed to incorporate ads/retail in (and hypervideo will do this) they will shift over to the new model... and like Apple, as they just set the precedent, they will take a piece of the revenue from integrated retail). - davidlee
It's the value of intent over the value of "cache" there was a story earlier this week of a girl who sells 100,000 copies of her fiction through kindle without a publisher - Stephen Pickering
Yes, she writes vampire crap for teens, apparently. - coldbrew
The Last Mile is so important, and Comcast is my only choice - Stephen Pickering
Coldbrew, yeah I didn't see what she writes, still its interesting - Stephen Pickering
Pickering: I agree, just pointing it out for those that don't know. - coldbrew
WiMAX last mile, what happened? - clive boulton
How about fiber for the last mile?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!!??! - Stephen Pickering
ZipTV, love it - Kevin Marks
cliveb: tech issues. Spectrum is still valuable. - coldbrew
Superbowl parties, Oscar parties - Kevin Marks
No Reservations - Jim Posner
Comcast keeps sending me notices about DLing Bill Maher shows (like I don't know I'm DL ing them)> - coldbrew
What? Bill Maher is on HBO. Huh? - Stephen Pickering
Idol on HD; kinda like manchego Cheetos. - Aron Michalski
Last mile spectrum issues need FCC solution (Fat Pipe, Fat Chance) - clive boulton
Comcast needs HBO exactly like iOS needs Amazon and Google. - Stephen Pickering
I found the 720p quality on AppleTV better than the HD on the DVR - less compressed looking - Kevin Marks
AJE shows there is a market for serious news on devices. I hope startups move into this space. - Jim Posner
Yes. But, they are getting DMCAs from HBO b/c im on the torrent (and so are ~300 other people). - coldbrew
Ah, IC. - Stephen Pickering
news consumption is always "bursty" - Jim Posner
Apple's pricing is simply stunning. It's flabbergasting the market. - coldbrew
JohnB echos Eric Ries #leanstartup learn from MVP (min value prod) - clive boulton
lovin' the Chartbeat possibilities & Borthwick is right it is about complex television / film production structure. - davidlee
coldbrew: Did you mean flummoxing the market? - Alex de Soto
de Soto: Perhaps. - coldbrew
This has always been about art. What's the point in having the hardware unless you're creating content of interest? - Aron Michalski
I have to choose the ipad for the same reason I've chosen the custom machine up 'til this point. - coldbrew
Robert's right - Stephen Pickering
Robert: My thoughts EXACTLY. The Kinect is definitely a top-notch product. Thing is that Kinect is a Prime Sense development. - Nir Ben Yona
I think they could build the company around Kinect - Francine Hardaway
xPad x everything - Stephen Pickering
A whole company around a UI component? - coldbrew
I mean re-build the company by letting those old divisions die - Francine Hardaway
And yes, a whole company around UI. That is what APple's doing - Francine Hardaway
Or maybe it's UX. At bottom, that's what all companies are built around - Francine Hardaway
The innovator's dilemma is alive and well. - coldbrew
Give me a tool to create. Give me a tool that will push me beyond my current work. The pen, the typewriter, the computer. The will to write and the ability to say something has to be there; the tool can take you to the next level. - Aron Michalski
Talked about Roku+Amazon Prime yet? - Denise Howell
my boys are playing minecraft, not xbox - Kevin Marks
Enterprise can use Kinect to videoconference - Francine Hardaway
xBoxes in the break room of the enterprise - Stephen Pickering
big xbox user myself..wish it had youtube and a browser - Jim Posner
Could MS build a Kinect device to plug into an iPad that's connected to an HD monitor? - Alex de Soto
I want Prezi as a real iPad app... - Kevin Marks
Marks: I have to believe your kids are above average. Not to be a snob about it. - coldbrew
wish apple tv ran iOS or had safari - Jim Posner
sure, I'm scobleing... but MineCraft is a huge phenomenon - Google should fund an Android port - Kevin Marks
the browser doesn't work on the TV - Jamie
I thought the PS3 had a browser that worked pretty well. - Jim Posner
i'm not even convinced apps will - Jamie
I have a PS3 and browsing on it is just terrible Jim. control pad as an input device really isn't ideal - Jamie
ffs, everyone send your good health vibes to Borthwick. - coldbrew
really wish I could browse on my iPad and flick to the tv - Jim Posner
The Apple iOS device platform is also very adaptable or extendable. Medical devices, sensors, etc. will easily hook up. I'm sure Android and MS will move in that direction. - Alex de Soto
the Quick Bar - Jamie
shows you trends and promoted tweets - Jamie
new Twitter App on Android UX blows - clive boulton
i agree Robert....hate it - dlature
annoying ...really annoying - davidlee
it's so annoying .. moved to echofon - Naor Mark
Totally agree with Robert. A petition has been created to remove this http://www.petitionspot.com/petitio... - Mark Krynsky
it is very instrusive. - dlature
Tweetdeck for Android; good stuff. - Aron Michalski
it will be gone. If we all hate it they will kill it - Tina Chase Gillmor
Seesmic for Android got a nice update this week - Kevin Marks
Robert will pay for the rest of us. - Aron Michalski
Borthwick reminds me of the trade federation from Dune :) - coldbrew
sry man - coldbrew
Hate that part of the new Twitter app too. They did add some interesting features though. You can turn "Ignore local trends" in the settings and turn off pinstripes, whatever that is. - Alex de Soto
I was happily using the official Twitter client until this update and I'm sure that myself and others will now explore all the 3rd party alternatives again....not good for them. - Mark Krynsky
Hillary says VoA should become more like AJE. Wonder if the US could produce a credible network. - Jim Posner
I really like the new Echofon Pro. - Nir Ben Yona
Hey! I just turned off pinstripes and local trends and the little black bar went away! - Alex de Soto
The spice must flow. - coldbrew
Time to check out Seesmic or Echofon (easier than petitions) - clive boulton
Interesting Alex...I turned off local trends yesterday but it had no effect. Pinstripes I didn't try but will now. - Mark Krynsky
Oh no! The little black bar didn't really go away. :( Sorry Mark - Alex de Soto
local trends are an optional setting. - Mark Krynsky
Do the deal sites have twitter feeds with substance? - coldbrew
Mine doesn't have it, guess I haven't updated yet - Stephen Pickering
pinstripes - Aron Michalski
it doesn't remove it, just make the annoyance local :) - Naor Mark
Yep! Sorry. I thought I'd give it a shot. - Alex de Soto
No Alex...those settings do not kill the bar... - Mark Krynsky
PER device. - Aron Michalski
it makes the annoyance less local - Kevin Marks
People that pay more than $55/ device for 3g are lost. - coldbrew
Right Kevin - Alex de Soto
right. and i agree with Nir, echofon looks nice... - Naor Mark
I use Echofon on mac now - Kevin Marks
Get better, Borthwick.! - coldbrew
Mobile = combining life with technology, creativity with technology, a huge boost in productivity. - Stephen Pickering
Pick it up at the Austin store..maybe I can help..walking distance from me Robert. - Jim Posner
I checked our echofon for mac but it doesn't work well with Hebrew (important for me) i'm using YoruFukurou mainly - Naor Mark
Scoble: If you talk about apps anymore, I'm coming to your house to shut you up :) - coldbrew
Obviously, kidding - coldbrew
apps Schmapps, we need web too. ditto needs a web app - Kevin Marks
Kevin...and Android! - Mark Krynsky
ditto - Jamie
Marks: You are always the voice of reason here. - coldbrew
YoruFukurou - tongue twister - clive boulton
Thank you Doc, Thank you Kevin, John and Steve! - Aron Michalski
Thanks, as always, you guys. - coldbrew
(and Tina...) - Aron Michalski
Almost inspired to buy iPad 2, but living in hope GoogleIO gifts a Tablet - clive boulton
I'll get one but not when the store opens. - Aron Michalski
Thanks Aron. We're both behind the scenes kind of guys, aren't we? - Tina Chase Gillmor
Robert Scoble
@justinlevy I like the Nexus One a lot better except tmobile is unusable for me.
You really should try the Nexus One on AT&T. Even with Edge, I didn't notice any performance difference between the Nexus One and my 3G iPhone. There are a lot less users on the Edge network these days. - Ward Mundy
Also try the trick mentioned on slashgear http://www.slashgear.com/t-mobil... - Nicholas Orr
I'm settling on a HTC Magic for the moment. Haven't heard much about availability for Nexus Ones in Australia. But after a couple of weeks of playing with Android...my poor iPhone is feeling the neglect... - George Hall (Australia)
Steve Gillmor
The Gillmor Gang — Brett Slatkin, Robert Scoble, Kevin Marks, and Steve Gillmor — track PubSubHubbub's progress as the bridge between RSS and realtime. Recorded live Thursday, January 14, 2010. - Steve Gillmor
Very informative! - Ward Mundy
What do we want? Everything. When do we want it? NOW! - Mindaugas Dagys
Steve Gillmor
Will be live in a few minutes! - Robert Scoble
and just as i speak - there is video..... - Chris Jackson
I'm standing by waiting for call. - Robert Scoble
Brett Slatkin is our special guest, software engineer at Google on AppEngine. - Robert Scoble
cool, welcome Brett :) - Susan Beebe
waiting for a call here too B-) - Brett Slatkin
follow for correct b43 url - Steve Gillmor
Awesome, Go Brett! GAE and PubSubHubbub FTW! - Julien
Brett - will there be any mention of django in this segment? - Chris Jackson
There can be! Whatcha want to talk about with Django specifically? - Brett Slatkin
Any minute now. I just joined in. - Robert Scoble
Do test patterns still make sense in this "modern" world? - Bob Wyman
Hey Bob - Brett Slatkin
well - im new to django and the main reason to use django was so i can get femiliar with python so later on move to GAE. - Chris Jackson
It's on! Echo from @scobleizer :) - Julien
Brett Slatkin, Robert Scoble and Kevin Marks now on GillmorGang Live at: http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish
Dave Winer :) - Susan Beebe
Are you still hearing an echo? I'm not. - Robert Scoble
No echo here. - Ken Sheppardson
audio is great here in philly - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Light pinging causes "thundering herds" - Bob Wyman
No more... - Julien
has he posted the fact that he's changed his mind? ;) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@bear : he did :) - Julien
You don't. - Darren
Bear, it was on his blog. - Bob Wyman
oh poo - everytime I think I can make a fun/somewhat-snarky joke I get bit - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
PSHB is a great protocol... we've got some exciting real-time stuff coming out next week that uses it. - Matt M (inactive)
Hi Brett, Julien. - Darren
bear -- "It's often mentioned as the reason people prefer PubSubHubBub over rssCloud. By providing for a fat ping, we erase that advantage. Now the two methods are at least at parity, with an edge to rssCloud because, once CloudPipe is done, it will work for clients that are behind firewalls and NAT, and PSHB does not." -- http://scripting.com/2009... - Ken Sheppardson
I want to know if there's going to be a cheesy RSSCloud video. - Cliff Gerrish
Who isn't blocked by him? Welcome to the crowd... - Bob Wyman
:D - Julien
I'm not, *ducks* :) - Susan Beebe
Yay! A lot of companies... and much more to come! - Julien
I like where he's going with this. :) - Darren
Cliff - is there a video for PubSub?? - Chris Jackson
Chris, this one is the best: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Matt M (inactive)
Julien :) - Susan Beebe
Brett : we're just starting to see Netvibes hooks at Superfeedr for Tumblr and Posterous's hubs :) - Julien
rssCloud is still *different* in that it addresses pumping data through firewalls. However, there are many (including myself) that consider that a "bug" not a feature. PSHB is server to server protocol and leaves that server to client protocol as a distinct question. Thus, PSHB systems can integrate with long-polls, XMPP, WebSocket, etc. -- whatever is best for the specific application.... more... - Bob Wyman
yea - suprfeeder! - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Julien - coool ;) - Susan Beebe
Nice. - Darren
yup... I wonder what Greader is doing now :) - Julien
I use XMPP to consume PSHB pings with AppEngine, behind my firewall. It's about 10 lines of code on GAE. - Matt M (inactive)
Yes! mistakes : undifferentiated callback url ! - Julien
agreed - having the same callback url for multiple streams is the worst - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Matt - is the xmpp support included in GAE? and do you have a url with the 10 lines of code?? - Chris Jackson
Diff'ing is atcually the hardest thing I think - Julien
We tell them :) - Julien
http://pubsubhubbub-xmpp.appspot.com/ is the basic client I've set up.. I should zip up the source and put it up there. - Matt M (inactive)
thnx - Chris Jackson
yes, please - Ward Mundy
Chris, xmpp on AppEngine is amazingly simple. I've worked with xmpp for many years and still can't get over how easy the GAE made it to use. - Bob Wyman
http://notifixlite.appspot.com/ is another example, source on github - Julien
RSS + PubSubHubbub should be _hidden_ from the end user... - Julien
@Julien absolutely! User shouldn't even know the stuff is there. - Bob Wyman
Does the NY Times use PSHB for their feeds? - Cliff Gerrish
No but I'm Julien would be happy to help them out. - Darren
I'm sure happy to help :) - Julien
Do they want to be helped out? - Cliff Gerrish
We haven't even begun to see what the real-time applications are. This is like the web was back in 1993... You ain't seen nothing yet. - Bob Wyman
Status.net/Identi.ca is putting PubSubHubbub at the core of its new redesign. I think it's an interesting usecase - Julien
Absolutely. We generally see ~90% reduction in polling infrastructure costs. - Darren
@Darren ; can I reuse that number? - Julien
Definitely. - Darren
I put that source up for the PSHB<->XMPP gateway on GAE: http://pubsubhubbub-xmpp.appspot.com/src... - Matt M (inactive)
We're working on some great prototype for PBP on sports sites. - Julien
It's just a minimal gateway example.. Julien's example or push-bot is more appropriate if you want a more pleasant experience. - Matt M (inactive)
I'm on Skype now, sorry for the lateness, traffic hosed me - Kevin Marks
Think of all the "mobile" apps on phones that are basically just "alerting" apps of one kind or another. Once we have a general infrastructure we'll see a tremendous number of specialized feeds being generated at vastly lower cost than what it takes to build this stuff today. - Bob Wyman
Kevin :) - Susan Beebe
Is Apple's notification platform built on Jabber? - Matt M (inactive)
nothing prevents PSHB from being another endpoint on an xmpp/amqp messaging backend - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
OMB + Salmon + WebFinger + Activity Streams = A Beautiful Thing - Darren
@Matt --yes, it uses xmpp (modern name for jabber) - Bob Wyman
video can be done in the same was as jingle is done - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
@Matt : nope... it's webhooks based - Julien
@Bob... oh, maybe I'm wrong - Julien
Julien, now if status.net were intelligible re: installation, setup for geeky, but not ubertechie, users. - Karoli
Would love to see YouTube PUSH. - Darren
@Bob - oops.. I keep slipping back to the Jabber name. :) - Matt M (inactive)
RT @Darren : Would love to see YouTube PUSH :) - Julien
Robert - Google profile idea is awesome :) - Susan Beebe
@Robert : feed readers could already indicated that, because they know what feed is hubbub-enabled - Julien
If Google Reader implemented PubSubHubbub, they could show that! - Julien
Today, we have the "web browser" which is a general tool for polling data resources. It seems reasonable to assume that in the future, we'll end up with yet-another-app which is the general tool for handling push data. Some startup will have great fun inventing that general push-client application. Today, most push apps require custom code. In the future, we'll use common apps to handle *all* feeds. - Bob Wyman
Bob - isn't that kinda what google wants to do with Wave? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Yes, Cliqset does that as well. - Darren
Bob Wyman : isn't it what Seesmic/Tweetdeck will eventually build? - Julien
It's a shame that email is so fragmented and busted... IMAP already does all this stuff reasonably well. :) - Matt M (inactive)
Mike, Julien, etc. Yes, just like there were many hypertext readers before TBL's took over the world. (I even had one....) Many people are trying to figure out what the push thing will look like. Somebody is going to figure it out, but I don't think they've done it yet. - Bob Wyman
Bob - I remember the days before Mosaic and all of the protocol soup that was required to navigate the 'net back then - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Louis is a smart cookie :) - Susan Beebe
@Mark : TwitterFeed is a PubSubHubbub subscriber so that works too - Julien
I think real-time push is going to be blocked on WebSocket adoption. Long-polling HTTP is hard to do right. - Matt M (inactive)
YELL LOUDER :) - Susan Beebe
Matt, what on earth would the benefit be of blocking real-time push? that makes no sense - Karoli
@Brett : send them real-time pings every 10 seconds :) - Julien
Karoli, I meant blocked from a software-development point of view, waiting for browsers to support this universally. - Matt M (inactive)
Matt, not really. They'll work together. Server-to-Server PUSH, Server to UserAgent Websockets, Long polling, etc. - Darren
@Matt, Long polling has been surprisingly hard. I think it really became widely known back in '98 or '99 and there has even been the mod-pubsub module for Apache since about that time -- but, it was still too hard. WebSocket will definitely make all this vastly easier! - Bob Wyman
I've wanted to work with long-polling for a while, but it's so finicky and hard to get right. Jetty and Apache support that stuff with a bit of configuration, but it's never hit a critical mass and become as easy as bog-standard HTTP. - Matt M (inactive)
Brett : stop moving from left to right, you're making me sea sick :: - Julien
matt - switch to nginx ;) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Sorry my chair was being weirdo - Brett Slatkin
:D - Julien
@bear - I've been eyeing Node.js a bit lately for that one ;) But it's definitely hard to find infrastructure that supports push over HTTP well - and each one has its own way of doing things. - Matt M (inactive)
Julien & Brett LOL :D - Susan Beebe
matt - node.js? you may have the same browser issues as you would if you went to websockets now - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Check out the first version of Nexus One's logo! (correct link) http://bit.ly/6hkwZq - Miguel
PSHB + Salmon + WebFinger - Bob Wyman
agree completely - WebFinger + xrds and then PSHB + Salmon - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Push is hard in the browser right now, but I hope that with one canonical push-capable websocket standard we'll start to see better support across the board for proxies to pass it through, as well as some standard patterns for dealing with it on the server side. - Matt M (inactive)
Google Profile - could be master social profile ...hmmm - Susan Beebe
@Susan... "Google Profile" will only be *one* of many profile services. The cool thing about WebFinger is that it allows users to choose between many different "profile" providers that are all discoverable in the same way. - Bob Wyman
Yes! - Darren
Evan doesn't use FriendFeed :-) - Ken Sheppardson
Status.net FTW! - Julien
Love that Scoble idea. WOW! - David Damore
Bob - cool :) - Susan Beebe
We need these to be broadcast for us right coasters :( - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Julien - what is FTW ? - Chris Jackson
Chris - For The Win (YAY!) - Susan Beebe
:) - oh - im getting old... - Chris Jackson
hehe - Susan Beebe
Mobile will be a big driver for "real-time" data. Is it raining? Is my bus late? Is there a traffic jam ahead? Do I have new email? Is there news since I left the office? Has the meeting started? Is Gilmore on live? This is all stuff you want to know when you're walking around. - Bob Wyman
Palm Pre - LOL ... what's that?! :) - Susan Beebe
Palm CEO is a dork - I've never used an iPhone - FAIL ... no wonder Palm is dying DOH! - Susan Beebe
Google Contact sync on the iPhone/Android is a huge win for me. Mail, Calendar and Contacts are the big things I need on the phone all the time - they are always up to date. - Matt M (inactive)
Use Google contacts EVERY day... would love a nexus one phone. I use the 'exchange' feature on iPhone for push with my gContacts - Susan Beebe
We already use Twitter to make phone calls through Google Voice. Works great. - Ward Mundy
Oh yea, I don't get google voice on my iPhone either Grrr - Susan Beebe
@Susan, ditto. I started using the Facebook contact picture sync too. - Matt M (inactive)
What's funny is that all my facebook friend's pictures ended up getting pushed back into google contacts. :) - Matt M (inactive)
Matt - same here FB sync is cool - Susan Beebe
Somebody's going to have to break up the Google monopoly of open source social networking developers... - Ken Sheppardson
Ken, working on that... - Kevin Marks
Hah... nice, Kevin :-) - Ken Sheppardson
LOL --> "way above my paygrade" :) nice - Susan Beebe
Is ping.fm heavily used? After Twitter and Facebook integration, it seems like a good idea for a third-place 3rd-party integration bit for startups - Matt M (inactive)
/me hides his Seesmic badge - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Google should buy Seesmic / Ping.fm ... great idea - Susan Beebe
That is, Facebook has a head start. - Ken Sheppardson
@bear : I can't be the only advocate for PubSubHubbub at Seesmic :) - Julien
We MUST have open protocols to ensure that no one can "own" your data. Where you put your data should be based on who gives you the best service, not just who you accidently gave it to first -- and you should be able to move your data whenever you want. The key is open protocols. - Bob Wyman
Julien - oh, trust me - i've been bending some ears on that :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Errrr.... WebFinger doesn't actually require an "email address." Its just that that is what people will normally use. - Bob Wyman
Is Cliqset building their system on a Google-acquisition-target-friendly platform? - Ken Sheppardson
you should be able to use a JID for webfinger - right? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bob webfinger wants an email-like identifier; facebook doesn't have one. FB, twitter have url-like IDs - Kevin Marks
@Kevin Right. It is "email-like" but not necessarily actually an email identifier. - Bob Wyman
How has this conversation gone on for nearly an hour without any Apple tablet speculation? Y'all call yourself tech experts? ;-) - Ken Sheppardson
It's old news Ken - Brett Slatkin
one of the reasons I like this show - it's not a mirror of "mainstream" tech news - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
The code name for tablet is 'phone.' - Cliff Gerrish
BTW, is there any bubblegum left, Brett? - Ken Sheppardson
Should eBay it. - Ken Sheppardson
Feature creep - love that :) -- Not sure about homogeneous app platform either - Susan Beebe
Best part about having Robert on the show is the random holding up of stuff. - Ken Sheppardson
The future of app development for mobile is Appcelerator and Phonegap and other stuff that paves over the differences. - Matt M (inactive)
Ken: :-) - Robert Scoble
web apps is the answer? - Tim Jones
My Apple mouse has no buttons. :-) - Robert Scoble
Yeah, HTML5 - Ken Sheppardson
i agree with matt on that. appcelerator, phonegap & rhomobile should win because they're built on the open web. - Josh Fraser
Web apps is a very good answer, Tim. HTML5 et al - Kevin Marks
This is like the effect the Apple Human Interface Guidelines had on GUI / HCI for personal computing. - Cliff Gerrish
Developing different apps for iPhone, Android, Palm webOS, et al is like having to develop different apps for Firefox, Chrome, IE, etc - Ken Sheppardson
Yea, I have 200 bucks in iPhone apps...ouch, plus the 500 bucks for the 3GS and the contract - Susan Beebe
We'll see more of "apps" that run in the cloud which have their interfaces running on devices. Apps will be independent of interfaces. iPhone, Android, Palm, etc. "apps" will be just interfaces to common back-end apps. - Bob Wyman
17% smartphone penetration only, more users coming online not tied down yet - Tim Jones
@Josh - yeah, exactly.. it's like a web app+ (the plus being access to optional per-platform features) - Matt M (inactive)
this has been a great show...gotta run. - Karoli
Bob: Sure, but the interface should to some extent be a function of the app, not the platform. I want gmail to look like gmail... the same interface... independent of which 3" touch-screen device I'm using. - Ken Sheppardson
writing web apps for different browsers is now becoming trivial, but it's also taken us 10 years to get here. i wonder how much faster that will happen on the mobile web. - Josh Fraser
iPhone developers tell me that Android is easier to build apps for - Susan Beebe
Native iPhone and Android apps both require learning a platform first, which kind of sucks. - Matt M (inactive)
Josh - I think it will be MUCH faster - cell phone adoption has grown faster than computer adoption ever did - and it has also made drastic advances on a faster timeline. - Rob La Gesse
Would be slick if there were cross-platform standards for the device APIs, so my HTML5 app could just access GPS functionality, for example, and not care whether I'm on android or iphone or something else. - Ken Sheppardson
IMHO: in 10 years, phones will ship with pico projectors and virtual keyboards/mice. - Matt M (inactive)
Ken, your HTML5 app can do that - see geo.js http://diveintohtml5.org/geoloca... - Kevin Marks
@rob, i agree. it largely depends on how long it takes for apple to open up.... which probably depends on how well the nexus does on sales. - Josh Fraser
was UI a part in selling baziilion RAZRs? - Tim Jones
@matt 10 years??? how about 2-5? - Josh Fraser
Keyboards and mice may not be a primary interaction model in 10 years. - Cliff Gerrish
GREAT SHOW :) - Susan Beebe
Ok that's amazing! got roughly 20 emails from people listening to the show! - Julien
Cliff, maybe - but there are always times where you can't interact verbally with your phone (classroom, meeting setting, bathroom ;)). - Matt M (inactive)
Come along to http://tummelvision.tv on twit.tv tonight - Kevin Marks
Best of luck Julien ;) - Susan Beebe
I'm thinking Natal. - Cliff Gerrish
that was fun. nice job guys. - Josh Fraser
Natal for mobile? - Matt M (inactive)
Kevin: Now if they could just shove contacts, calendars, camera, etc into HTML5, we'd be set (ala http://developer.palm.com/index...) - Ken Sheppardson
Thanks for watching everyone! - Brett Slatkin
Thanks for the great show, all... interesting as usual. - Matt M (inactive)
I think Palm made the best initial choice for a mobile platform overall betting on web-style apps. You can't do everything in HTML/JS, but you can do a *lot*. - Matt M (inactive)
Brett - Thank YOU - great show :) - Susan Beebe
Missed it again. One of these days I'll set this show straight on RSSCloud!! ; ) - Matt Terenzio
I remember when everyone would complain because it would take Steve 2 weeks to post a show to the RSS feed. Now I just sit back and wait 10 days till it hits the bootleg feed and am grateful for what I can get :) - Christian Burns
Steve Gillmor
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http:www.building43.com/realtime/
On Gillmor Gang in 5 minutes - Kevin Marks
Get ready for today's GillmorGang - http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish
feedbacccck!!! ** echo*** - Susan Beebe
Ah, my day just got better. Gillmor Gang is just firing up now. - Karoli
GillmorGang w/ Paul Buchheit, Danny Sullivan, Kevin Marks and Scoble - http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish
When is Verizon going to give up CDMA for LTE? - Cliff Gerrish
Danny is missing the point that because it is open and can compete it will force the US carriers to start offering features to compete across the carrier vendors - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
just caught a great screenshot of Steve at his command center. :) - Karoli
Microsoft smartphone maker is HTC - Ballmer had it at CES- not sure of the model either - Susan Beebe
Steve's bank of monitors is cool although he needs liker picture in picture or something. LOL - Jim Turner
I think it was a Ballmer 3.0 - Cliff Gerrish
LOL :D It should say, "Bing, Bing, Bing" every time it starts up - Susan Beebe
HTC HD2 - Rob La Gesse
Funny. We're using Nexus One on AT&T and it's anything but a brick. In fact, I'm not sure I've even noticed that 3G isn't available. I previously had another Android phone from Rogers that supported 3G on AT&T, and they are virtually identical in performance. - Ward Mundy
There is lots of analysis saying the google phone web site is the true game changer and not the phone. Anyone agree? - Jim Posner
Jim, I agree to an extent. Unbundling the phone/carrier is the game changer. no question. - Karoli
Jim, I think that is the sleeper hit for the first quarter. Instead of the arm-twisting that Apple had to do with AT&T to get the network behavour they needed, Google is now going to make it so that the US carriers *have* to change or be left behind as niche phone vendors - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
It felt like a stockholder meeting. - Jim Turner
That's because 'phones' are dead. The devices need to be much more than that now. - Cliff Gerrish
sigh...now i have to choose between this and the President's presser. Perhaps the President could wait a few minutes? :) - Karoli
Karoli, that's what DVRs are for. - Cliff Gerrish
LOL - Susan Beebe
I like arrington's take on the providers needing to step up now. - Jim Turner
Mike Arrington just joined the GillmorGang (live) - http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish
Zwpwpwpwpwpol';dkfa;ldfk awesome!! - Susan Beebe
LOL!!!! Voice recognition, FTW - Karoli
Robert they dont work any tme whether geeks in town or not. - Jim Turner
Untrained voice recognition has a lot more to do with the speaker than the phone. - Ward Mundy
On the GillmorGang Tank! =) - Micah
how can we use Google Voice on our iPhones????? - Susan Beebe
Ward, I agree. Using a headset/mic would help accuracy. - Karoli
I think it also helps if you spell out loud everything you want to say. - Cliff Gerrish
Just did a Nexus One Nav demo with voice recognition on YouTube. Had no problems. http://bit.ly/5NSwgd - Ward Mundy
Cliff, I spent 5 minutes training my Mac for MacSpeech, it's about 98% accurate. Amazing technology - Karoli
Karoli, did you train your Mac - or did it train you? - Cliff Gerrish
Anyone catch the Ballmer keynote last night...as a xbox 360 owner I found the natel announce interesting but not much else. - Jim Posner
On Nexus One, try: Navigate to Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. In 15 seconds, you're on your way. - Ward Mundy
Cliff, i don't feel like it trained me... - Karoli
Karoli, then it was very successful. - Cliff Gerrish
Ballmers focus seemed retrospective rather than forward looking. Has MS become irrelevant in terms of tech leadership? - Jim Posner
watching president's presser on CNN on my iphone while watching GG on my laptop. If I mistake Arrington for Obama, just shoot me. - Karoli
Cloud based phones suck when there's no access to the Net. Try connecting in Cambria, CA. - Alex de Soto
If you don't have a Google phone, check out Vlingo. I've got it on my Blackberry and I can do voice input wherever there is text input. It's also server-based - Ted Gilchrist
Uhh. All cellphones are cloud based. - Ward Mundy
"Strategic fear" is accurate label for Apple - Arrington nailed it - Susan Beebe
Apple's too proprietary / closed, could cause them to paint themselves into a corner fast - Susan Beebe
Aren't web apps on the iPhone completely open? - Cliff Gerrish
Google knows how to leverage and guide open source projects well... smart code & resource management - Susan Beebe
Cliff the apps may be open, but the holy Apple App Store is NOT open; highly biased - Susan Beebe
Apple is a consumer hardware company that invested heavily in the OS to help drive the consumer experience - that's a lot different than the Microsoft and Google focus. They all approach consumers from different starting perspectives. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
As a first generation phone the Nexus One is as equally impressive as the first gen iPhone. - Jim Posner
Danny's an Apple fanboi!!! :P - Susan Beebe
Nobody's buying an iPhone because of an app-by-app comparison like that. - Ken Sheppardson
Keep that pic - it's funny watching Arrington get all twitchy!! LOL :D - Susan Beebe
that photo of scoble cracks me up. - Karoli
People are buying iPhone's because it's the default choice at this point. - Ken Sheppardson
The question now is "Why should I buy phone X instead of an iPhone?" - Ken Sheppardson
In the UK the iPhone has banking apps. Property apps. Apps to measure my energy consumption in the home - Jamie
its gone way beyond Twitter and Facebook - Jamie
TMobile is an excellent data carrier but yes, if you live in the boonies you may have issues - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
The days of coverage being local are long past. To be competitive, coverage needs to be there, coordinated across regions. - Karoli
Exactly why it's good that a lot of the apps on the iPhone can be used without the cloud. - Alex de Soto
M$ was very disappointing... yawn - Susan Beebe
every time i've had to contact tmobile for plan changes or questions the folks have been friendly and able to answer/fix the problem. the phone folks are a lot better then the folks in the stores - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert is there 'cause everybody else is there. It's like being a Deadhead. - Ken Sheppardson
Robert's at CES because, "There's a lot of parties!" LOL :D - Susan Beebe
HP placing Bing as default search engine is a BAD move for HP... bye bye - Susan Beebe
Bing has an iPhone app *yawn*. It is surprising to see Bing doesn't render on mobiles - Susan Beebe
Paul was ranting a bunch this week on M$ - funny stuff - Susan Beebe
m.bing.com renders fine on my phone - Jamie
google docs rocks - Tim Jones
Google docs is amazing... collaboration is simply fantastic. love it - Susan Beebe
m.bing.com works on Droid, but bing.com doesn't suggest it; flickr.com is smarter - Kevin Marks
Jeffrey Hayzlett uses Google docs too :) Jeff is a very smart cookie, transforming Kodak - Susan Beebe
bing.com redirects me to m.bing.com on the iphone - Jamie
facebook ads are amazingly effective and well targeted - Susan Beebe
very interesting discussion; very insightful remarks especially in the discussion about Apple vs. Google - Jeroen De Miranda
the interesting thing is that with Quattro Wireless, Apple can build in an ad network to their mobile stack to keep developers on the platform - Jamie
and use it as an alternative means of monetisation. - Jamie
targeting? apple ID info. - Jamie
the mono folks have been trying to evangelize the .net/CLR tech and have been berated constantly by Microsoft - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Apple's mobile me is a total failure on Droid too - Kevin Marks
Microsoft is throwing a lot of money at getting Silverlight to stick, but nothing has stuck yet. They have to pay off everyone to get Silverlight in. Once the money stops, Silverlight disappears. - Matt M (inactive)
mobile me uses soo many safari-specific html items it reminds me of how some MS products are tied to IE - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Kevin - haha not surprised! ;o) - Susan Beebe
I think in a year we'll have to look back at 2009 as the year Palm died its final death... sigh.... - Ken Sheppardson
Netflix watch instantly works great -- (silverlight) - Cliff Gerrish
completely agree ken - Jamie
Droid-Nexus One was the one-two punch that finally sent them to the mat. - Ken Sheppardson
I think part of it was self inflicted - Jamie
Interesting that the xbox and mobile teams have be joined at msft. - Cliff Gerrish
todays web os announcements were completely underwhelming - Jamie
Oh, ALL of it was self inflicted, Jamie... in some sense ;-) - Ken Sheppardson
XBox is a strong piece of technology - the only thread M$ has left to hang onto - Susan Beebe
Cliff, I think Netflix is the only big success story I've seen for Silverlight. - Matt M (inactive)
Zune? No mention of Zune when discussing Windows mobile stuff? - Ken Sheppardson
maybe Microsoft can buy Palm and bring their web skills to use - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Matt, how about the olympics? - Cliff Gerrish
"But after the conclusion of the [olympic] games, NBC went back to using Flash. Another setback for Microsoft came when Major League Baseball Advanced Media, the group that streams baseball games over the Web, decided to drop Silverlight." - Matt M (inactive)
bear: I think Palm's taken on too much ex-Apple persona to be a Microsoft target. :-) - Ken Sheppardson
Apps are the KEY game changer in the mobile market. Of course decent signal & data are a must too! - Susan Beebe
Why doesn't Twitter do a camera? - Ken Sheppardson
Does the Nexus One have push technology? - Karoli
Ken - ah, that's a shame - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Susan, I completely agree. Apps will drive phone decisions, etc. - Karoli
Yeah, and I completely disagree. I think early adopters overestimate the extent to which app selection matters. - Ken Sheppardson
Ease of use, carrier choice, coverage... all trump number of apps. - Ken Sheppardson
Thanks guys :) - Susan Beebe
Ken, carriers need to become seamless. I choose my carrier based on carrier, not based on handset. - Karoli
Bye Steve, thanks for a great show. - Karoli
Which do/did you chose first, Karoli: carrier or handset? - Ken Sheppardson
it's always been handset choice for me - but then again I change phones in 2-3 year cycles so i'm never locked into a contract when I decide to move. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
I think the typical smartphone decision process these days goes (1) Do I object to iPhone for some philosophical reason or do I so hate AT&T so as to not buy one? (2) if so, which carrier am I on now, (3) what's the best phone on that carrier. - Ken Sheppardson
that was a 2009 era decision tree - I think the availability of android phones on all of the carriers will now change that for 2010. (or at least I hope it will) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
with android, there are choices. alot of people like a keyboard - Tim Jones
There'll be a point where mechancial keyboards are completely replaced with virtual keyboards. (the physical keyboard becomes an object of nostalgia) - Cliff Gerrish
Robert Scoble
CES (Consumer Electronics Show). Everything you need to know, share and discuss here: #ces2010
come back in a while, I'll fill this up with info. - Robert Scoble
Calendar on Upcoming.org: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/tag... (add your event please!) - Robert Scoble
I published my 'tips' here: http://penguinsix.com/2009... Tip 1: Keep your luggage tag as LAS airport requires them for checked bags. And others (like rent a car cause you'll never get a cab). - Andrew Leyden
For folks still looking for a press badge: http://siliconangle.com/groups... - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Hotel Scoble's staying in: Trump Towers. Hotel everything for bloggers is happening at? Wynn (across the street). Hint: I'll be at the Wynn a lot more than my own hotel. - Robert Scoble
What are the "must see" gadgets? Last year the Schwinn bike was one. The guy who showed me that is saying that Sanyo has a cool bike this year: http://twitter.com/dpoliti... - Robert Scoble
Is there a blogger lounge this year? I've heard of a few of them but haven't gotten details. - Robert Scoble
I'm looking forward to see the Boxee Box, could that be one of the most anticipated gadgets of the show? - Oscar Yasser Noriega
CES official site: http://www.cesweb.org/ It's in Las Vegas next week. Most of us are arriving on Wednesday and going home Saturday. - Robert Scoble
Best press event? Showstoppers on Thursday night. That's where you'll see all the cool small companies. http://www.showstoppers.com/ - Robert Scoble
Isn't Lenovo having a blogger lounge thing/party? - Andrew Leyden
Best party for bloggers? The "It Won't Stay in Vegas CES Blogger Party." http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event... -- gotta have an invite to this, but I hear a few celebrities will be there. - Robert Scoble
CNET has a CES page with their best of innovations awards: http://ces.cnet.com/ - Robert Scoble
We should start a drinking game. First game? Everytime an ebook reader gets announced you have to take a drink. If I play I will be very drunk within the first hour. - Robert Scoble
Google News for CES: http://news.google.com/news... lots of early press releases covered here. - Robert Scoble
Anything else we need to link in here? - Robert Scoble
I like going to the 'Asia' room at CES because there you meet the factory reps of all the tech manufacturers and some of the really wacky things they have dreamed up. - Andrew Leyden
Yeah, and Rocky is coming with me with our big Panasonic gear. But I'll also try to do some live stuff as well with my Droid. - Robert Scoble
Andrew: yeah, those rooms are always fun to see where gadgets will go over next year. - Robert Scoble
FTR if I go this will be my first year at CES amazingly - really hoping I can make it - Jesse Stay
Ben Parr: what is Mashable expecting will be the coolest press conference at CES? - Robert Scoble
Still debating whether I want to go or not. Haven't reserved a room but the boyfriend wants to go. It has nothing to do with AVN being at the same time, nothing at all. - EricaJoy
Wish these guys would come East once in a while. Miami, Jax, Savannah, Charleston, D.C. -- all are fun towns. - Ward Mundy
EricaJoy: This is my 7th CES and I've never seen so many last minute hotels still available. Usually you have to go as far as 30 miles away this late in the game, but there are still options. - Andrew Leyden
Andrew, that's partly why I'm considering going this year - Jesse Stay
I deleted comments here that didn't have much to do with CES, just to keep this all on topic. - Robert Scoble
Jesse: I've never seen rooms so cheap. I saw $89 at Luxor and we're paying $200 for Trump Towers (brand new hotel). - Robert Scoble
Ward: even with a much smaller size CES can't be in any other town than Vegas. It's that big. Still will be more than 100,000 attendees. - Robert Scoble
Luxor, Circus Circus, Excalibur, and several other places off the strip are < $100 a night this year. - Andrew Leyden
Robert, yeah - prices are amazing right now. I'm thinking about driving my new Mustang down there just for the roadtrip. - Jesse Stay
Jesse: getting there is a bit of a challenge. United was trying to charge me $800 for a roundtrip. SOuthwest is $400 (from SFO). I'd drive. You probably will beat some people who have to wait in security lines, etc. - Robert Scoble
I love the Utah->Las Vegas trip, so long as there's no snow storm! - Jesse Stay
One tip? Order a limo instead of wait for a taxi. Taxi lines in Vegas can be more than an hour long. - Robert Scoble
Vaibhav: nope, my family is staying home for this one. Little Milan is a real troublemaker in planes now. - Robert Scoble
Another tip if you're on a budget: Get the week-long bus pass and you can just take the bus up and down the strip for really cheap. - Jesse Stay
Or, if you're driving, Valet at almost every hotel is free. Average person tips $2-$3, so that's cheap as well. - Jesse Stay
If I go, I'm driving. From San Jose. Oi. - EricaJoy from IM
Jesse: someday I'll tell you a story when I was broke in Vegas, walking home from the Dvorak party (which was really big at Comdex, Bill Gates was there). I met some interesting people on the walk home (it's about four miles down the strip if I remember right). - Robert Scoble
Erica: we did that in a bus last year and the bus broke down. Hopefully our plane doesn't break down. Expect to spend 11 hours on the road, less if you drive very fast and don't stop long. - Robert Scoble
Bill Gates brought his dad for his first Comdex appearance. I think he ran the projector. :-) - Ward Mundy
Sounds like an interesting story - I'd definitely love to hear it. - Jesse Stay
Another thing I want to do some time is tour the tunnels underneath and get pictures. There's an entire city underneath the city of homeless people. - Jesse Stay
Ward: one of my favorite experiences of the 1990s was walking around Comdex/Windows World with Bill and talking to him about Visual Basic and just in time compilers. - Robert Scoble
I'm a drive fast and hard kind of lady. I only stop when I have to make a bio-break and I average 80-90mph. - EricaJoy from IM
Erica: use Waze and report any speed traps so other geeks don't get caught. :-) - Robert Scoble
Is Leo Laporte driving a Ford/Lincoln Urban Assault Vehicle? Maybe you could hitch a ride. - Andrew Leyden
Andrew: yeah, I hear Laporte is going with Ford who is sponsoring his show. Me? I already have a flight down there. I've done the driving thing too many years now. - Robert Scoble
For those still considering going, avoid flying in Wed. It's sold out. Just come on Thursday and try to go on Sat. You can still find some good airfares (I just booked mine Thursday AM / Sat. for $300 from Washington DC) - Andrew Leyden
I just talked with someone who knows CES very well and knows a lot of the Engadget/Gizmodo tech press. He says there's some things that are interesting, but overall he hasn't seen any really exciting announcements coming. I keep hoping that there'll be something more interesting than yet another copy of the Kindle or yet another Netbook. Anyone? - Robert Scoble
Oscar: latest version of boxee release http://blog.boxee.tv/2009... is exciting, since the software is crossplatform - Mike Chelen
I recently got an invite to Boxee beta. It's pretty sweet. Wish I could write on it, but NDA. I'd be interested to see this new Boxee Box with the Nvidia Ion that they're talking about running it on. - Justin Drew
Palm is going to wow some people with their announcement if they really are doing OpenGL and native apps as it appears they will, rather than just announce Palm Pre/Pixi on Verizon with a possible size bump which is what had been expected. - Joshua Lee
Justin: probably Intel Atom 330 (1.6GHz, dual-core) with GeForce 9400 like http://www.newegg.com/Product... nice compact ITX board - Mike Chelen
Mike: thanks for the link, looks like an interesting piece of tech. What I'm really looking forward to seeing are "hopefully" playable demos for Project Natal and Sony's motion controller. - Justin Drew
The Geek's Guide to Las Vegas for CES 2010 - 5th Annual Edition! http://bit.ly/7hpIOg - Brian Benz
Hey Robert - you still thinking about coming up for Sundance at the end of January? - Jesse Stay
Robert Scoble
I am sitting with CEO of Sonos and he is debating me about which mobile platform they should support next. What do you think? (After iPhone)
Android all the way - Robert Burgin
I say Android too. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Great minds think alike lol - Robert Burgin
Zune. - Andru Edwards
WebOS and the Palm Pre. - Jonathan Ezor
What Android phone? - Robert Scoble from iPhone
HTC Hero - Robert Burgin
Palm Pre, then port it to the rest via phone gap. - Luke Kilpatrick
WebOS - Rodfather
As a Sonos user, I can assure him that Blackberry comes after iPhone. What other choice is there? - Michael Krigsman
They should hit Windows Mobile, in all honesty. Just from a penetration standpoint. Of course, I have no idea how feasible that is. But they should definitely go with Android over WebOS so they don't tie themselves to ONE device on the market. - Andru Edwards
Android. - Jeff
Michael: blackberry users don't do much other than email. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Andru: Palm will have more devices out with webOS by the end of the year, I predict by the middle of 2010 every carrier will have webOS devices. - Luke Kilpatrick
Symbian Please! - Peter Kelley
No other platform offers the freedom that android does IMHO - Robert Burgin
However, more important than platform, they should allow the desktop application to play synched music with the Sonos system. Sure, there are technical reasons militating against this, but they should figure it out. - Michael Krigsman
Or Java - Peter Kelley
Yes, Robert. An application written for the HTC Dream/T-Mobile G1 should work on the HTC Magic/T-Mobile myTouch 3G. As for the HTC Hero and other non-Google Android forks, applications *should* be able to work, I think. Not completely sure, though; so correct me if I'm wrong. - James Rishabh Mishra
That is not true at all, Robert. I know many, many people who buy BlackBerry as a consumer device nowadays. The iPhone has changed that perception of smartphones. - Andru Edwards
Robert: hmmm....and Blackberry users do not use Sonos systems? - Michael Krigsman
And in case I didn't make it clear enough, I totally want Android support. - James Rishabh Mishra
Anyway, glad we are having the same debate they are having internally. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Luke, I know. But right now, there is just one device, with nothing else announced. It makes more sense to go where the users are. - Andru Edwards
Sonos has a cool controller coming out tonight, by the way. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
I had the Curve and my G1 blows it away just my experience though - Robert Burgin
Android. Given enough time, I think the number of andoid handsets is going to radically outnumber all the others. Jus a hunch. - mikepk from iPhone
We Sonos users do not need whiz bang coolness -- we need solid functionality that works. - Michael Krigsman
How about their own? I'd really like smaller, less expensive remote. Also, *any* level of control with a Logitech Harmony remote would be fantastic. - Kevin Fox
I am putting together all of our assets on the new controller right now. Check out Gear Live in 90 minutes for all the news ;) - Andru Edwards
The iPhone controller is excellent: well-designed and makes use of existing hardware so no additional cost. That's superb. - Michael Krigsman
Palm Pre. New apps are hugely popular now. - Jon Winters
Android...duh - Jeremy Franklin
By the way, the Sonos PR mgr. sent me a Sonos t-shirt after I twitter positively about the product. I liked that a lot. - Michael Krigsman
Public API. Let a thousand apps bloom. - Kevin Fox
Palm Pre. - David Chartier
I think it's great that they went after the iPhone first. No flies on these guys. - RobinDotNet
Holden: That's my point. But just because it makes the most sense, doesn't mean everyone recognizes that! They do. Smart guys. :-) - RobinDotNet
None. Ok, maybe Google Android. - Jose Alvear
I took the plunge and finally joined FF just to tell you to support Android. You know in your heart its the least evil of the platforms. - Neeraj Kumar Agrawal
Get him to cut his hardware costs in half so that his stuff is affordable... - Buzz Bruggeman
I second the Public API. It not only would benefit all the phone platforms, but soooo much more. - Ward Mundy
Robert: If you are still with the Sonos team - Please ask when the new controller will be available in other Markets? Australia? Thanks. - Clifford Kennedy
I third the vote for an API. There are some hacky UPNP Apis but a formal API would open up many new apps- - Tom Wentworth from iPhone
Why only one more platform? Seriously, they should do a few. Android and WebOS to start with. - Cyrus Lendvay
I love my Sonos, but can you please ask him why I should get a new smaller controller for $350 when I could get an iPod Touch that does the same thing and more for less money? - Kevin Fox
Kevin - the new controller is something you can leave in a common, shared area, has much better screen resolution, replaceable battery, etc. - Andru Edwards
Andru: Do I need a resolution better than the iPod Touch in order to control a Sonos? If my iPod Touch only has the Sonos app on it, what's the concern of leaving it in a common area? It's a home, not a dorm after all. Lastly, when would it possibly be better for me to replace a battery than to put the controller back in a charging cradle? - Kevin Fox
Blackberry would reach more users. Android 3rd - LANjackal
Kevin, it's not for eveyone, but it gives you the option. I have an iPod touch, and an iPhone, both with the Sonos controller on them. But what if I don't want you, or any other guest, using my iPhone and possibly seeing my text messages or other alerts that come through on those devices? Obviously, those devices can be rich with personal info, that I don't want shared. If I hand you my... more... - Andru Edwards
I concede some of your points. It's also nice to have an integrated bundle with a single-purpose remote. For my own needs (and I may not be the target demographic) I already have a Sonos system and am considering an additional remote. My point is that buying an iPod Touch to be used exclusively for controlling the Sonos makes more sense for me. It's highly responsive, can easily sit in... more... - Kevin Fox
Yeah, I don't know WHY they price is that high - but it is cheaper than the older one, with more features. Also, the older one is going to be very heavily discounted until it sells out, so there's that. One other benefit, which may or may not be attractive to some, is you pick up the controller, and it is ready immediately. No pressing of the home button, sliding the screen, finding the app, waiting for it to connect to network. - Andru Edwards
WebOS: any professional Web developer working today can start developing for it right now, without learning anything they don't already know: HTML, CSS, Javascript. - .LAG liked that
Here are some images of the new Sonos Controller 200: http://www.gearlive.com/news... - Andru Edwards
Zune HD? Xbox 360? - Mike Nayyar
I've had 5 Sonos units for the last 5 years, very very pleased.....it was actually the "THING" that made my change jump from a HTC Windows Phone to an iphone, it was the deciding factor. They were nice enough to offer to replace the controller after my pup got a hold of it: http://www.flickr.com/photos... - Jacob Shea
CrackBerry obviously - Daniel W. Crompton
Android - Leonardo Saraceni from twhirl
I say the Xperian T3 phone is the next big Android release. - Amani
Android. - mjc
Android - prasanna gautam
So what was the verdict? How's that webOS app coming along? :-) - Steve Lemke
Android! (w/ HTC sense) - Clemens Orthacker
Android! - Jeff Watson
I would suggest Android, however choose which mobile OS has the largest market share. - Wayne M
Android. One good open source project deserves another! Since this post originated, a pretty good, independent Android app for Sonos has appeared in the Android Market: Andronos. - Ward Mundy
Android Please! - Jeremy Cave
Phones with an Android operating system outsold iPhones in the first half of the year. There is other software that can take care of the different phone specifications. Andronos is quite good though. - Jeremy Cave
Robert Scoble
If you're trying to stalk me on Google Latitude you should know that it isn't very accurate on iPhone. How wrong is it? This much:
It's about two miles off right now. As I drove home I saw it all over the place. The GPS in my iPhone is very accurate. Why is Latitude not showing exact location? Is it trying to keep me safe from my stalkers? - Robert Scoble
Do you really have stalkers? Seriously? - Liza + = ?
You think that's bad? I have Google Latitude on my Blackberry & it's been listing me literally in the middle of the bay or even in the ocean when I'm going around the city. I'm a bit perturbed... - Kenneth
Yeah I'm with Kenneth. My Curve has no idea where I am - Chris Brakebill from iPod
My G1 has me located perfectly. - Kevin Mohr
Sometimes Latitude says I'm in Japan. I live in L.A. and I've never even been to Japan. - Michael Hocter
@Michael -- Little Tokyo? - Absentee
@Michael Perhaps your phone has been to Japan without you knowing. Mine takes trips to Argentina to hook up with a laptop that lives in Buenos Aires. - Dan Glass from iPhone
I should mention that my phone is not an iPhone. It's an HTC Touch Pro on Verizon. Verizon disables the GPS, so Latitude uses other methods to determine location. It doesn't work very well. :) - Michael Hocter
In this form, Latitude for iPhone does not look very usable... - Alpay Erturkmen
Just out of curiosity, how accurate is the W3C Geolocation API on your computers (i.e. and not on your GPS-enabled phones)? Try it out at http://maps.google.com with Firefox 3.5+, Chrome 2.0+ or any browser with Gears. - Leo Dias
Here the precision is impressive (Budapest, Hungary). Using nothing but nearby wifi spots for triangulation, it pinpoints my location within a 10~30 meter range. Still amazed at this. - Leo Dias
RWW wrote quite the negative review of Latitude on the iPhone. Too lazy to link - LANjackal
Why would you buy an HTC Touch Pro with GPS if your carrier disables it?? This whole aspect of branded/locked/crippled phones is crazy. - Nils Sandin
mine is really accurate. we do have strong signal here - Susan Beebe from BuddyFeed
Michael: Install a CE registry editor, and search for HTC Touch Pro GPS. Telus pulled a similar trick with my classic Touch, but a little bit of registry elbow grease gets things working nicely so long as your provider supports AGPS. (BTW, your phone should always be able to do unassisted GPS, technically, but HTC's hardware isn't the best at picking up the satellites without help.) - Chris Charabaruk
Nils: Why do Canadians like me use mobile technology at all when our service providers are all out to screw us as hard as they can? We'd love to deal with Verizon's crap up here, because they aren't nearly as evil as Bell, Telus, or Rogers. - Chris Charabaruk
Hacking the heads off of innocent civilians = evil. Using women and children as human shields = evil. Cell providers over-charging for their services = frustrating. - Phil Essing
Robert: Not sure you're right about Nokia E71 choking with Latitude and 30 friends. We actually have 250-350 using Nerd Vittles most of the time, and everybody gets the Latitude display without the E71 croaking. http://whos.amung.us/pro... I may be confused, but I thought the phone interface to Latitude merely reported your 10-20 to Google which took it from there. Every... more... - Ward Mundy
Google Latitude approximates where you will be 2 weeks in the future. Didn't they include that in the product notes? - Christopher Bral
"how accurate is the W3C Geolocation API on your computers" - mine lists me about a block east of where I actually am. - John Craft
it's accurate on G1 - kang
It is much more accurate on Nokia, I'm not sure why it is inaccurate on iPhone. And Liza no I don't really have stalkers, I just have 400 friends who follow me around. - Robert Scoble
Seems quite accurate on my iPhone Robert so far (though I have only been using it a few hours) - Tom Raftery
Google Maps' location feature thinks I'm 9h north of my current city in Fx 3.5.1. If they can't simple geolocation right I'm not surprised Latitude on the iPhone is crap - LANjackal from IM
Google Lattitude needs to add a Glympse-like function for allowing people to track you temporarily, without giving them continuing access to where you are. Glympse's web interface for tracking a user is extremely mobile unfriendly, whereas Google has already solved that with their Google Maps/Lattitude application for all the major platforms. (Never mind that the Glympse broadcasting client is still only available for the least-used mobile OS platform...) - Christopher A. Wichura
Hey guys I just bought a 16GB iphone - my first one. Boy am i excited!!! - Mark
Is it better on the battery to use Wifi over 3g when its available? - Mark
Mark: Yes, the WiFi radio uses much less power than the 3G radio. - Christopher A. Wichura
thx! But I have to wait for a credit check so I won't likely get it whilst next week. Didn't want to buy it in person in the O2 shop in case I failed the credit check for some reason. Bought online. I imagine going from a $30 piece of crap to a third generation iphone will be quite a shock to the system :D :D :D - Mark
Robert Scoble
Stalker alert: I am using Google Latitude again on my iPhone so you can see where I am. scobleizer@gmail.com is my account. Details:
I should be on Sand Hill Road now. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Whatever... you're all the time on FriendFeed! :) - directeur
They just shipped an iPhone version. Works better than the Nokia version (it doesn't crash). - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Still showing last update 4 days ago for me.. - Simon Wicks
Stalker alert? Ears perking up and Scoble radar fired up and ready to go.Check - Sheree Motiska
sounds like a good program, to say the very least, the wonders of integrated GPS. - Raymond Marr aka Knatchwa from IM
Has updated you now :) - Simon Wicks
Thanx Scoble, just added you, here is mine: gtziralis at gmail.com - George Tziralis
Yeah you should be able to watch me drive home now. :-) - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Not so happy about the web app implementation, makes it really awkward - Ian D. Nock
I am never turning off my iPhone now :-) - Jesse Stay
Apple controls the maps application, not Google. So, with the launch of Palm, Safari gets web maps too. - Joel
Should be a great tool for hitchhikers... - Buzz Bruggeman
OT: What iPhone FriendFeed client do you use? BuddyFeed? Or anything better? - Ralf Rottmann
john.bellone.jr@gmail.com - Crappy that it is a Safari app though. - John Bellone
Something is better than nothing. - Ashish from iPhone
slow doooooooown ;) - metalerik
Ralf: I use Safari on iPhone. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Metalerik: I was using my cruise control. The car in front of me decides how fast I go. It is the best new driving toy I have seen in years. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
can you add friends while driving? :) - Christian Burns
I refuse to answer that question Christian but I am at Peets now. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Wait, but what about turns? This gives me an idea: have that keyboard where you type on the back of it integrated into your steering wheel! you might have a few stray strokes, but it would at least be funny. - Californian
We use this on a Nokia E71 without crashes. Can't you see my feet propped up watching the Right Coast waves? http://mundy.org/whereib - Ward Mundy
Ward it will crash when you get 200 friends! - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Robert, are you talking about this? ( http://www.youtube.com/watch... ) wow, awesome. - metalerik
Robert: No worry with 200 friends. I have trouble keeping 2 or 3. :-) - Ward Mundy
metalerik: yes. It is indeed awesome. - Robert Scoble
Mine arrives next week. Can't wait. - Ward Mundy
Robert Scoble
I might have bought my last iPhone. Here's why: http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009... Well, that and AT&T sucks. Dropping calls all the time now.
still looks like the iPhone's ugly sister - Roger Oldham
HTC Hero is the the one to keep an eye on. However AT&T will get this issues resolved, just going through growing pains with the recent success of the iPhone 3GS and other smartphones. I wouldn't leave just yet. - Sloan Bowman
Looks like a nice phone !!!! but i do not think i will give up my iphone - Aaron Thorn
Roger: it feels like 1993 to me. Remember that year? The Macintosh was WAY ahead of Windows. But here Google is catching up quickly thanks to having an ecosystem that's building Android in. It's the ecosystem that's getting me interested. - Robert Scoble
I'm already looking for excuses to switch thanks to AT&T - Jesse Stay
Well, that and the fact that AT&T is so bad. - Robert Scoble
If you use Google services (like Gmail, calendar etc), using an Android device is a brilliant experience. Everything syncs. Check out the Hero. I'm waiting for the HTC 'lancaster' -- or, indeed, anything with a physical QWERTY keyboard. - Ewan MacLeod
Robert since when do you base your choices on looks? What whats should be foremost what matters. Agreed? - Sloan Bowman
is the iphone screen big enough to watch videos on it whilst, say, sitting on an exercise bike at the gym - Mark
The Hero UI reminds me too much of Palm Pre, my girlfriend has the Pre and it's absolutely terrible. I don't see why so many people were excited about it. - Colin Anawaty
Colin: Were is the keyword there ;-) - Sloan Bowman
At&T was the deal-breaker for me, but then I actually like my G1. Android app still lag well behind iPhone apps tho... - Curtis Phillips
Trouble is that with GSM in the U.S. you have a choice of AT&T (bad) and T-Mobile (worse). We switched to Nokia E71 over a year ago and haven't looked back. Free tethering with JoikuSpot, too. - Ward Mundy
Ryo: I agree the iPhone simply is a very limited device. I'm a huge Symbian fan but Android is my number 2 pick by a long shot. I don't care about appearance. I want power and freedom to get the job done. The iPhone simply can't stand with the others when it comes to that. - Sloan Bowman
HTC can make anything look good - Kashif Khan
Ryo: what happened in 1994? Windows NT. What happened in 1995? Windows 95. Game over, Microsoft took over from Apple's lead. Same is happening here. - Robert Scoble
where does rim fit into this discussion? - Tobias Lewsadder
I just want a android phone which has working 3g with AT&T. Just need Lancaster (Memphis) to come out - Ryan
all the best apps and games are on Iphone though, not other platforms - Mark
Patrik -- the apps will come-a-stormin' as people adopt. - Ewan MacLeod
N97? Anyone? :) - Holger Eilhard
Sloan: Symbian is dead. Sorry. - Robert Scoble
N97 lacks native SIP. - Ward Mundy
Robert: sure, that bit is interesting... be great if they focused a tiny bit more resource on the industrial design & UX tho' - Roger Oldham
RIM is fine as long as it continues to have the best keyboard and Exchange integration. But I think long term it has problems too. - Robert Scoble
Holger: have you actually used an N97? Sorry, isn't even in the game. - Robert Scoble
Why Rob? business people always need to email and thats awesome with blackberry - Mark
Pretty damning comment for poor Nokia! - Ewan MacLeod
To me it's a Palm/iPhone/Android world now. The rest have to get on board (IE, compete!) or go away. - Robert Scoble
Robert: I was referring to your comments about the N97 a few months ago. :-) - Holger Eilhard
really thinking about buying one. the fact that it doesn't have to be bought at one provider is rather nice. - Pim de Groot
"Palm/iPhone/Android world"... certainly true in the U.S. - Ward Mundy
Is Nokia's OS miles behind Apples? - Mark
Looks nice. Love my iPhone I just wish I could get my MMS pictures without the dreaded Failure encountered during view message errors - Matthew Noreen
in my consultingi have always pointed people towards the iphone for fun and personal use and the blackberry for business purposes. does the pre or any android based phone fit in the middle? - Tobias Lewsadder
Re: Palm/iPhone/Android - No Sh!t - that is an understatement. - Don Strickland
I've always wanted an iPhone, but have no AT&T coverage. Now that they've bought Alltel assets, they should be coming here, but are likely 2 years out. That leaves me with Verizon. Android also intrigues me, but until they get a device on Verizon, I'm still out of luck. - Shawn Kirsch
Holger: I thought they woudl do a better job on the OS. I also didn't expect iPhone 3GS to come along or the Palm Pre to turn out as nice as it did. I also didn't expect that Google would be able to excite developers. All of which are bad trends for Nokia. - Robert Scoble
Of course nokia if they were in this thread would say "we sell a zillion phones a day" - Mark
Tobias: you're wrong there. iPhone works great for business too. The only question is whether you can get used to the optical keyboard. I type thousands of words a month on the iPhone. No RIM needed. Android, though, looks like it'll be my next phone, unless someone comes up with a game changer. - Robert Scoble
Robert: I was waiting for that and no my friend its far from it ;-) But you can think that if you would like. - Sloan Bowman
Mark: yeah, and DOS was once #1 too. Who cares? - Robert Scoble
I tend to think Motorola, or any would-be smartphone manufacturer without an OS, should get down on its knees and thank Google for Android. And I'm still not sure Palm survives, even post-Pre. - John Craft
Mark: From a UI standpoint absolutely. From a feature standpoint its been years ahead for a long time. Yes its has its problems but I can do so much more with my Symbian phones than I can with my flashy iPhone 3GS. I'm not biased just being honest from my perspective. - Sloan Bowman
I actually asked you if I should get an iphone yesterday Rob and you said I had to decide myself. It's such a hard thing though. - Mark
Google crippled SIP in Google Voice. Waiting to see if they do the same thing with Android. - Ward Mundy
Robert: Have you ever thought that Android could have use for business purposes too? That's something that I was oblivious to when Android first hit the market. - wiredgnome
Mundy: Crippled as in how? I love my GV - Sloan Bowman
Crippled as in can't make a connection to GV via SIP. - Ward Mundy
Sloan: I have a lot of Nokia phones too and have been a Nokia fan for a while (they still do better video) but the market does not care about having a Zeiss lens or MMS. Who cares? I watch teenagers in UK. They only text. The bleeding edge users are on the iPhone and Android. Developers like: http://www.youtube.com/scoblei... NRU. That app was built for Android first, then ported to iPhone. You can't do THAT with your N97. - Robert Scoble
Amir: I think Android is going to get lots of business users excited. Just like Windows did in 1995. Apple's risk is that they didn't learn from 1994. - Robert Scoble
Oh I played with an N97 (the guy wanted to sell me one so I wouldn't go to the O2 store for an Iphone) he said it was just as good. It wasn't, and it felt like a piece of shit - Mark
"Have you ever thought that Android could have use for business purposes too?" - Amir, see http://www.youtube.com/watch... . I have my G1 syncing to a Google Apps account, and given the costs associated with licensing and supporting Exchange, Android + Apps is a threat to Microsoft and RIM. Gmail's contacts format needs more work, though. - John Craft
Never trust "the guy" lol... - Colin
robert: what about bis/bes? arent those important in the business environment? - Tobias Lewsadder
The Android Samsung Galaxy looks quite good, and unlocked, but still over 400€. - Nils Sandin
Well he was a salesman in a rival store :D - Mark
Mark: I thought it felt good when I first saw it, but they didn't redo the OS deeply enough and didn't make the Web really usable, like iPhone does. That's why iPhone is taking over. As people move from texting-only to understanding the web is important part of their mobile device they need something usable. Nokia isn't usable. Period. - Robert Scoble
Robert: Do you think Apple's mistake/risk in '94 will lead them to a different perspective on Android? - wiredgnome
Android will revolutionise the enterprise because you can finally control the experience for the end-user. Imagine being able to take an HTC Hero and install a 'Citibank' approved and managed version of the Android OS. - Ewan MacLeod
Yeah Rob, the problem is here in the UK, People like me don't want to CALL people anymore, we want to SMS people and we want to check Facebook on a nice browser on the phone. - Mark
Robert: I hear you and trust me I know exactly what you mean. I'm amazed by the apps on my iPhone. I'm just trying to bring that into the Symbian world where its capable but has been neglected for so very long. I am able to share my life easily and with high quality with my Symbian devices. For me this is a powerful thing. You can do it on the iPhone but one app at a time ;-) - Sloan Bowman
Amir: it doesn't look like it, because Apple is very secretive and very closed to outside innovation. But they do have the best developer platform out there (which shocks even the iPhone team internally). That's already one difference between 2010 and 1994. Apple pissed off developers back then and stopped focusing on them. Right now Apple is VERY focused on developers -- their ads show it. - Robert Scoble
Discussions like this really show off the beauty of FriendFeed. - Ward Mundy
God if Nokia came in this thread they could learn a thing or two from this one - Mark
Amir: I think Android will overtake iPhone very soon if Apple doesn't change the way things are going. They are too closed about what they do and what they allow us developers to do. Its going to bite them. - Sloan Bowman
Bingo! - Ward Mundy
Mark: I wish they would. Doing my best to make sure that happens. - Sloan Bowman
Nokia are reading, I guarantee it. - Ewan MacLeod
AT&T is the only reason I don't currently on an iPhone. I have an Android phone (a G1 from T-Mobile) and while it's a great smart phone, I'd much rather own an iPhone. - iTad from fftogo
Mark: Nokia doesn't care internally. THAT is the HUGE problem. - Robert Scoble
Well they need to fucking care. I've played with their latest and greatest and its NOT GOOD ENOUGH. - Mark
a game changer to me would be apple incorporating iwork into the iphone. - Tobias Lewsadder
Mark: Nokia believes that having market share is all that matters, not in having OS leadership. They dropped the ball. I don't know if they will be able to find it again. - Robert Scoble
Robert: Correct. Do you think if Microsoft was in Apple's position [being oblivious to outside innovation] they [Microsoft] will be able to thrive like Apple did with the iPhone? - wiredgnome
Robert - agreed. I had to give up my beloved iPhone because AT&T doesn't have service in my new home location. I even bought a cell booster to supposedly help but it didn't. No service at all but according to the AT&T coverage map, I'm in the "moderate" coverage area. Now I'm fighting the early contract cancellation due to no service. Sucks but I'm hearing a lot of AT&T coverage and dropped call issues lately. The woes of cell service and the electronic world - isn't it great? - Sharon Dexter
Robert: Untrue, I know several people at Nokia that care immensely. They realize the problems but I don't think they have the expertise to see how to fix it yet. I know some very great minds are working on it. - Sloan Bowman
Mark: now you are getting where I've been coming from for the past two years. There's a reason why I wait in line to buy iPhones when I get Nokia phones given to me to try. - Robert Scoble
Sloan: well, Microsoft has the same problem. And, sorry, they don't communicate to the world that they care. They are arrogant and go on stage and poopoo the iPhone and Google. I was there in the audience when they announced the N97. - Robert Scoble
And when people come to them and say they have a problem they hem and haw and don't admit they have a problem. I've heard this over and over from people who go to Nokia and meet with execs there. - Robert Scoble
If they really thought they had a problem they would pull a Nokia and rebuild their OS from scratch. That's the only way they can solve this problem. - Robert Scoble
Apostol: like I said, it's an iPhone/Palm/Android world until someone changes the game. - Robert Scoble
Robert: I had voiced this opinion as well, communication is key and they are getting better at it. Making a good presence on twitter and other networks with real people listening to real users. - Sloan Bowman
But they paid good money for that OS. - Ward Mundy
With RIM hanging on due to business users. Check this out: http://online.wsj.com/article... - Robert Scoble
Sloan: nope, that won't help Nokia. I feel very happy with communication from Nokia. I get tons of devices to try. I get access to people. But the OS sucks and that won't stop being a problem. Nokia needs vision again and needs to ship a great product again. - Robert Scoble
Nokia is just not the company i think about when i want a smartphone. they made good normal mobiles, but apple and HTC/android are the ones that pop into view when you want an internet phone. - Pim de Groot
N97 just shows they finally caved to the providers. - Ward Mundy
Apostol: What do you mean by that regarding the N97? What do you think is so bad about it? - Sloan Bowman
What about screen size? I find the the screens on the iPod Touch too small already. Can't imagine having a smart phone with an even smaller screen. Will trend to bigger screens ever occur? - Thomas Sheppard
Ward: just because you threw money down the toilet doesn't mean you should keep doing that. Palm learned that. Nokia will too. - Robert Scoble
I'll take an open system any time over a closed one. And I think it sucks bigtime that Apple decides what carrier I use. It's a great piece if software, but it sucks as a mobile phone. Android and this Helios phone look promising. - Alexander van Elsas from iPhone
Couldn't be happier with E71. Over half my calls are SIP, and they're all free. All I need is WiFi. - Ward Mundy
Good lord, Robert, this is you and me agreeing here :) - Ian Betteridge
The game will change I agree but to what direction is anybody guess now. If you want my opinion it won't be Apple that does it. I'm actually surprised you like the iPhone at all Robert. You seem to be a multitasking kinda guy to me. At least very heavy into communications. - Sloan Bowman
If you do decide to bail on the iPhone I'd be interested in the switching cost (the effort it took to move to a different mobile OS) and what kind of non-obvious lock-ins exist on the iPhone. - scott anderson
Apostol: It has a great battery IMO. I push mine very hard and it last all day no problem. Are we going to get into the battery war here? G1 iPhone are you serious? - Sloan Bowman
I agree there has to be an optimal screen size but in education they are talking about mobile learning using these phones (Mobiglam being an example of an early system) and I can't see it working on any smaller screens. - Thomas Sheppard
Apostol: No its not blazing by any means but for me it gets the job done and done well. I am able to communicate via email (personal, Exchange) Sync my google contacts live with Google Sync over Mfe. Have twitter open if needed, chat and last and entire day doing it. Not to mention document my life with my wonderful photos and videos and push them to the web without touching a computer. - Sloan Bowman
Ward, the E71 is a bit of a "hidden gem". For anyone wanting a "BlackBerry-like" phone with a keyboard, it's a really, really sweet phone. - Ian Betteridge
Ward: Right there with you. Google voice and Gizmo SIP make an powerful combination. Of course other SIP providers are just as well. - Sloan Bowman
google has a great opportunity with the chrome os and android. their flawless integration, if done right could be HUGE! - Tobias Lewsadder
Bottom line I don't disagree things don't need to change with Nokia but I do disagree when people say they are worthless. The communication power of a Symbian powered device are endless. But trust me I'm up for any platform that can offer this to me. If that is Android, iPhone then i'll support it. - Sloan Bowman
Great discussion. Here are perspectives from a few developers that may show some chinks in the iPhone's armor: http://furbo.org/2009... http://www.marco.org/143265621 - Sterling Zumbrunn
The industry is about choice. Open choices are always the best door to enter so you don't get hit in the ass by a door closing. - Sloan Bowman
I find the iPhone much easier to program for than Android as I only have to test on a small set of models -- Android is not so simple, especially with these new hybridizations of the operating system. I'm worried it'll become as painful as Windows programming. That said, Apple really needs to fix the App Store approval process. - Raj Advani
Raj, that's true now, but will it be so in the future? Apple is likely to follow the same slow-diversification path for the iPhone as it did for the iPod, I suspect. - Ian Betteridge
indeed, plus the 3gs and 3g have enough differences that there are 3gs only apps. But i agree with Raj overall the hardware specs are the same - Kashif Khan
jcunwired: Agreed but clearly stating that its dead is dead wrong. People said Mac was dead too remember. Look at it now, all it takes is innovation and dedication and we will have a more rounded solution. Call me overly optimistic but I have faith the Symbian Foundation will change things. If i'm wrong I will be the first to admit it. Trust me I have plans for a HTC Hero in the palm of my hand the day they come out ;-) I bought the iPhone 3GS a couple of weeks ago and like it but wouldn't say I love it. - Sloan Bowman
Prasson: Oh I promise you the next iPhone will probably be incredible as far as hardware goes. Surely they will include a flash, surely right. - Sloan Bowman
My 3G used to hold a rock solid signal. My 3GS is horrible. 20% drop rates confirmed by Apple Genius - they have a tool that can tell. This is my second one, the first was unbearable. I suggest everyone make an appointment with the Genius bar or drop into AT&T this week. Overwhelm Apple and AT&T with the complaints and testing. Maybe (probably not) it will get their collective attention if they have to spend an entire week troubleshooting. - chris tirpak
Unlocked N97, baby! - Thom Kennon
Didn't you say that when the Pre came out too? I think you may have "Oh Look! Shiny!" disease... - Kevin (aka ThreadKilla)
would verizon be the right answer for the iphone. every verizon phone i have played with was so locked down. i remember comparing my wifes razr to my brothers who is on verizon. it was a totally different os. will verizon give apple and the iphone users the freedom needed for a revolutionry product like the iphone? - Tobias Lewsadder
With competition, Android phones will soon cost less than $200 towards $100 UNLOCKED, which is the real advantage here.. - Charbax
Also, in theory, Android phones should be able to run VOIP and IM only, with absolutely no Voice and SMS contracts needed, but only a month by month pre-paid data only plan required. - Charbax
You can already do that in the UK, with a Skype Phone on the 3 network. Skype-to-Skype calls are free once you're bought the phone - you don't even need a data plan. - Ian Betteridge
After using Iphone(1st gen,3g and 3GS) for nearly two years, I feel no other phone can beat it in browsing the web and it is more of information output device than data input device. The touch keyboard is still very usable to type. I have not used any other smartphones but I feel they lack the smoothness of the Iphone UI. It is not multitasking but the process of going to other program... more... - Ashish
Ian Betteridge, the Skyping that you are talking about is fake. You still need a voice and SMS contract plan. VOIP should be VOIP, it should be located on the data plan. In Europe we can have $20 month-by-month pre-paid only data plans, with absolutely no contracts just perhaps a 10GB or 20GB monthly data usage limit. - Charbax
Android UI is not only developed by Google, but is now developed by thousands of embedded Linux engineers in each of dozens of companies. So obviously Android UI should provide the best possible UI. Anyways, all smartphone UIs are the same. What matters now is freedom to do what you want with your phone, and the price of these devices can only be brought down by increased competition. Android only enables that. - Charbax
Try supporting this on your iPhone... without paying AT&T through the nose: http://mundy.org/whereib - Ward Mundy
Texas Instruments OMAP3, Qualcomm Snapdragon, Freescale i.MX51 or Nvidia Tegra all would have been 3-4x more powerful ARM based processors. So I'd much rather have an ARM Cortex A8 based device. Lots of Android phones are coming out in the next few months by many other manufacturers than only HTC and Samsung. - Charbax
Awesome thread. I'm struggling to find one device that does all I want. I'm testing a bunch right now (fringe benefit). 3GS is probably the best overall. Tweetdeck for iPhone is the koolest app I've ever used. Palm Pre has a slick UI and does great with Office 07 attachements, but apps are limited & no good roaming package for me over in Asia + no tweetdeck (yet)...N97 is interesting..... more... - MarkHirsch
The iPhone is the best gadget I've had in a while but lately the AT&T service really sucks here in NY/NJ - it drops calls and email replies don't get received. Really getting ticked off with it. - Sally Church
Golly gosh O'trousers Friendfeed is quieeeeet tonight - Mark
AT&T really, truly sucks - big time. - J.D. Deutschendorf
You really can't go wrong with Verizon and a Blackberry. - Bryan R. Adams
except for the blackberry part.. - Chris Heath
I haven't had many problems with the Blackberry. Push email (that works) is king. - Bryan R. Adams
AT&T seems to be in meltdown re: providing, even voice bandwidth. i left them for Sprint, big improvement. I discovered that Sprint has a "free roaming deal" with Verizon so their footpints are the same. - Steve Bell
I am so glad I saw this thread. I am going to check out the HTC Hero. Hope it has a release date soon in the US. My iphone 3G is good, but I want more w/o having to pay $400 to upgrade and get AT&T's service. - Amani
@Scoble - I really, really, really want the HTC Hero but from what I understand it's 3G bands are the ones that AT&T uses in the US so the most recent speculation is that it will end up there. So you'd be stuck with Ma Bell still anyway. I wish this could have gone to US T-Mo, I'd be all over it. - Bryan Zirkel
Hey Chaps, in the UK the Iphone has unlimited data plan built in monthly cost, the Hero has 500mb a MONTH plan built in. That's a 3 minute youtube video every day and a few emails. - Mark
AT&T service is dropping calls almost everywhere now. - wiredgnome
Realized the problem with too many phones around... blew one up today...Plugged the AC adapter for the mophie 3GS battery/case into a N97 since they for some reason have the same custom connector & poof.. blew the N97... - MarkHirsch
Probably will stop me from buying my first iPhone - Kenneth Younger
Robert Scoble
Wait a second the whole Amazon Kindle thing yesterday was ABOUT STOLEN property! That changes ALL the anti-Amazon arguments. More:
Those books were stolen property. Amazon had every right to delete them. Police will come into your house and take your TV if it was stolen. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Amazon had no right to sell those books to you in the first place. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Interesting to see who was anti-Arrington and anti-Amazon too. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
If you are anti-arrington you must be pro Amazon today. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Chris: yeah. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
The stolen TV analogy only goes so far since it was Amazon that was selling the stolen merchandise in the first place. I wonder how this has affected Kindle sales. - Justin Doub
If a printing company illegally produced copies of your book, you could rightly expect the rights-holder to go after them and even demand that unsold copies be destroyed but they certainly wouldn't demand to burn all copies sold to customers. See my comments here: http://www.torgo.com/blog... - Daniel Appelquist
You guys need to go to law school. If you buy stolen property from a store, you are the rightful owner of the goods. The police won't bother you. - Ward Mundy
Ward: is that true? I always thought that receiving stolen goods would get them taken from you. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
That's not to say Amazon wouldn't be liable for damages to the legitimate copyright holder. Just not the buyer in the ordinary course of business. - Ward Mundy
I disagree. Amazon should have found a way to work it out with the publisher (i.e. write a check). You should NEVER do what Amazon did. Pull it from the store, don't sell any new copies, fine. Don't yank content from a consumer's device. Ever. - Brian Baggett
Amazon is still at fault here, by the way. For selling something it didn't have the legal right to sell. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
We can all agree on that. :-) - Ward Mundy
George Orwell is rolling over in his grave. http://nerdvittles.com - Ward Mundy
Brian: I agree, and it looks like Amazon agrees now too but those arguments have less teeth today. By the way did you argue for or against TechCrunch publishing the stolen Twitter documents? - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Amazon should have communicated to their customers before taking any action. Amazon = Fail - paul mooney
Ward: Orwell has lots of reasons to roll over in his grave. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Paul: agreed. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Paul: I completely agree. Their actions caused uproar that could have been avoided by sending a clear message before preforming the pull. - Joshua
Amen, Big Bro. - Ward Mundy
Seeing the Twitter docs pop up over at Techcrunch felt ... "dirty". Just because you can doesn't mean you should. - Brian Baggett
Brian: lots of journalism is done with stolen info. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
It depends upon where you purchased the stolen goods. - Ward Mundy
Ward: even from a second hand store? - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Absolutely Brian, starting to read that I felt as if I were a part of some sort of espionage... I stopped reading. I think I may be done with Arrington/TechCrunch... :( - Trae Ruge
The real root of the anti-Amazon, anti-whoever, sentiment is that we all know copyright is broken and that these books SHOULD be free. - tollie williams
If the store is in the business of selling the type of goods you buy, then you are a buyer in the ordinary course and are protected. - Ward Mundy
Yeah, I realize that. The difference is when it's something like Watergate or exposing massive corporate fraud, that's one thing ... when it's exposing the inner thoughts of a company that's yet to make a dime ... it just seems senseless. Know what I mean? - Brian Baggett
Not to be pedantic, but it's important...it's not stolen property. It's a work under copyright sold w/o a license. There's a difference. "STOLEN PROPERTY" (in caps, no less) means you don't have the property anymore. That isn't the case here. It's still wrong, no question, and Amazon is in the process of working through this. But it's different, and it's complicated. All caps doesn't help. - Ken Kennedy
Robert re:"lots of journalism is done with stolen info." http://kara.allthingsd.com/2009071... - Ian Paul
Robert: Amazon isn't the police; remember the analogy; if Books Inc sold me an illicit copy of 1984, they have no right to come into my house to get it back; they'd have to follow a legal process to do that. - Stuart Liroff
Wouldn't the police need a warrant to come into my house and get the stolen property. I mean they couldn't just break into and then leave. That's what makes Amazon's action so bad, they made no attempt to inform the consumer of what they were doing. After all the consumer didn't know the item was stolen and had no reasonable expectation it was stolen. - Kim Landwehr
Oops...I capped the whole thing "ABOUT STOLEN". Sorry. I'll not edit above, but consider this my oopsie acknowledgement. - Ken Kennedy
Ken Kennedy: Excellent point and that isn't pedantic at all. - Brian Baggett
Ward, if you buy my stolen t.v. I have every right to get it back. Your money is gone and you could face charges for receiving stolen property, depending on the circumstances. - Kimber Scott from BuddyFeed
Ian: Kara is wrong there. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Ken: so if this isn't "stolen property" but content sold without out a license, doesn't that mean it was illegally obtained--at least by Amazon if not the end user? - Ian Paul
The end user asserted to Amazon that they had the rights to publish the work. - Ken Kennedy
I wonder if Amazon will ever start removing books from the kindle that you got from somewhere else, i.e. pirated content. - RobinDotNet
Robin: I doubt that. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
If somone took one of David Pogue's (the NYT writer that one of of the first to write about this), OCR'd it, put it up on Amazon via the Kindle's small authors publishing programs, and sold a couple thousand copies at $0.10 before Pogue figured out what was going on, what do you think he'd want to do? Leave them out there, or make Amazon take them back?? (I'm willing to bet $20 right here on the latter). - Ken Kennedy
Robert: I don't want to go too far off topic here, but why don't you buy the argument that there's a difference between taking company documents in the name of the public good versus a hacker doing a cyber B 'n' E? Wasn't the whole Twitter affair basically a case of prurient (okay, prurient isn't the right word here, but you get my drift) interest for the reading public? - Ian Paul
@Robin. There's no technological way to make sure that you don't have the right to that work. I think Amazon would be crazy to even try. - Ken Kennedy
Scoble: I absolutely believe the content providers won't put pressure on Amazon & Apple eventually to do just that ... - Brian Baggett
Robert i think you're conflating things again, maybe just to be a gadfly or "start a conversation," but you're equating things that aren't equal. Amazon thought they had the right to sell the book -- they didn't not *knowingly and wilfully* violate copyright. morally speaking, that is not the same kind of "crime" as buying something you KNOW is stolen from a self-admitted thief. - Karim
I misspoke. I meant to say "I absolutely believe the content providers will put pressure on Amazon & Apple eventually to do just that" - Brian Baggett
Ian: My public interest is your purient interest. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Amazon's already said: "“We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers’ devices in these circumstances". Props for that...probably. But what happens when someone scarfs the next "Harry Potter-alike", uploads it with a slightly different name a day before release, sells TENS of thousands of copies before they're caught (because I bet lots of... more... - Ken Kennedy
Amazon made a mistake that had no financial benefit for the receiver of the goods. Arrington received stuff he *knew* was stolen and used it for page views. HUGE moral difference. - Karim
So they only remove content that *they* allow you to put on there illegally? That's good, bec. if Amazon did that, think what Apple could do to people's iPods... - RobinDotNet
Robert: Amazon had the right to _lawfully_ request the 1984 copies to be returned. They didn't have the right to commit a felony by "breaking and entering" in order to retrieve the property: Definition: "Entering can involve either physical entry by a person or the insertion of an instrument with which to remove property. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Stuart Liroff
Robert: maybe I don't see it the same because I am not a journalist, but I am a banker. If your information is stolen and sent to Tech Crunch et al. you would not want to see it posted I would imagine. Perhaps this isn't similar, but posting anything privat be it account balances, personal info, loan committee minutes, business dealings etc. they are all private information... - Trae Ruge
KenKennedy -- they could compare title against copyright availability. - RobinDotNet
I'm still dismayed about the reports that some books can only be downloaded a specific number of times, and that's not documented. Anybody had any problems downloading books repeatedly? (I have 2 kindles, and use iPhone kindle app too). - RobinDotNet
Robert: I think we'd need a new thread to keep this discussion going. I just can't believe that the Twitter info was in the public interest. - Ian Paul
Robin: Why would you want to download books repeatedly anyway? - Ian Paul
@Stuart: C'mon. This wasn't a masked Amazon employee in your bedroom. It's a wireless device that you authorize (and in fact expect them) to move stuff around on. You agree to a lengthy terms at purchase. Amazon can't agree to give you rights to a permanent copy of something that they don't have the rights to give you period. - Ken Kennedy
IanPaul: I might want to download it to multiple kindles. But sometimes I download a book, read it, and remove it, so my list isn't so cluttered, since they don't let you folder them. - RobinDotNet
Robin's comment brings up a good point: http://medialoper.com/hot-top... - Brian Baggett
Isn't it ironic that the books by Orwell were deleted. "He who controls the past, controls the future" is the party slogan of the govt. in 1984. Maybe Amazon thought they could go back and change history too. - Robert
BrianBaggett -- I agree, they should disclose it. I feel like I need to back up the files from my kindle to my PC just in case. Because you CAN copy them off, then copy them back on there, yourself. - RobinDotNet
Oh, the Orwell irony I think is "great" (note the quotes). It's part of what gave this story legs, IMO. - Ken Kennedy
Ken: If the perception is you're buying something from Amazon rather than renting it, then it is unreasonable. Obviously, they just made clear to anyone who wasn't sure that you own nothing on the device; you're just renting. - Brian Baggett
Robin: I see. Can the Kindle sync with your computer or a memory card and you can put them on your hard drive instead? I don't have a Kindle, just interested to hear how it works . - Ian Paul
@Brian @Robert I wholeheartedly agree...back up your files. It's trivial. - Ken Kennedy
Robert -- It would have been ironic if it happened with Fahrenheit 451 !! - RobinDotNet
IanPaul -- you can connect it to your compute and see the files, and just copy them off to your PC or wherever. - RobinDotNet
@Brian The Ars Technica article is good on this: http://arstechnica.com/tech-po... Amazon does consider that you have a permanent license; it's no "rental". But...(and there's always a but in contracts), it can't give you a license to something it doesn't have rights to license! That's what happened. - Ken Kennedy
They can reclaim stolen property, but they would tell you, they wouldn't just steal it back from you secretly. - RobinDotNet
Whoever said stolen property can't be taken away is wrong. In California, receiving stolen property is punishable by the law and often includes jail time. Even if you didn't know it was stolen and paid for the item. It can and will be taken by the law and held as evidence until a hearing or trial. - Marc Flores
It's NOT stolen property. It's unlicensed property. And the short answer is Amazon should have bought a license for the number of copies they already had sold. - Ward Mundy
If you buy a book from a book store, you have an absolute right to keep the book whether it was originally stolen or not. - Ward Mundy
If you buy a stolen book from somebody on the street corner, you do not have a right to keep the book. - Ward Mundy
Ken, Amazon's License and Terms of Use clearly gives the purchaser the non-exclusive rights to keep a permanent copy of the digital content on your device; nowhere does it give Amazon the right to delete it. http://www.amazon.com/gp... - Stuart Liroff
Why worry about the stolen property statues of 50 states? This isn't a big-screen TV! @Ward, that's not a bad idea (short answer), except a) what if I don't WANT to license my work, for any price. You can't make me. b) after the fact, maybe I am willing to license to Amazon...for $100,000 a pop. - Ken Kennedy
@Stuart: I know, since I quoted that about 2 minutes ago. *grin* But they can't license stuff they don't have a license to license! - Ken Kennedy
"Copies of copyrighted works CANNOT BE REGARDED AS STOLEN PROPERTY for the purposes of a prosecution under a statute criminalizing the interstate transportation of such property." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Karim
You might also search for Buyer in Ordinary Course under UCC which applies in most states. http://bit.ly/49QRid - Ward Mundy
So do those who bought 1984 have the legal standing to launch a class action suit against Amazon? A case that like that could have some serious implications for the future treatment of digital content. - Ian Paul
I still don't see why Amazon deleted the books from the Kindle. Apple doesn't do the same thing for their apps. Kindle may be okay, but I'm sticking with Stanza on the iPhone for now. - darnell from BuddyFeed
So wait. I unknowingly buy a book from a store that doesn't know it's stolen. The store owner realizes it was stolen, comes to my house, breaks in and takes the book back? Since when does he have the right to do that? The police, probably. The store owner? Definitely not. - shandel from iPhone
shandel, the police can't enter your home to retrieve stolen goods without 1) your permission, or 2) a search warrant issued by a court. So what Amazon did was purely breaking and entering, unless their TOS said they could do so. - Jeff P. Henderson
You do not own the kindle downloads. Amazon licenses them to you. - russellcoleman
Yes, you own a license to the books. Where is it stated that Amazon has a right to yank your license? - Jeff P. Henderson
@Jeff: That's the point; you own a bogus license...what does that give you? Amazon didn't have a legitimate license. Orwell's estate pointed that out; they had no choice but to stop selling. I imagine Amazon's interpretation of the TOS is that you never had a legitimate license either. They appear to be changing that interpretation now, based on feedback. - Ken Kennedy
Ken, there is something called due process that should have been used in order to right the wrong. Amazon should not have 'broken in' and taken the books back. They should have used the proper legal procedures for doing so if that was their best resolution to the problem. - Jeff P. Henderson
Disagree Scoble. This is not about STOLEN property. This is about censorship and the rights of individuals. This is about TYRANNY pure and simple. - Richard
The Kindle is a nascent, emerging technology (sure e-book readers have been around for years, but like the iPod was to MP3 players, this is to e-books) and Amazon should do everything in their power to not leave a bad taste in consumer's mouths. Period. That 'kill switch' should be for viruses or malicious trojans or something that is really a problem. - Brian Baggett
In a case like this, the publisher should've worked behind the scenes with Amazon to license the books. If the publisher wouldn't budge, Amazon could've had the courtesy to email or post a notice on what the publisher was asking them to do. The widespread ill-will would've shifted from Amazon in a heartbeat. They could've spun this blunder into a PR opportunity if they were smart ("The big bad publisher wants us to delete your content, but we said no ...") - Brian Baggett
@Brian --- It's not any of my (or Amazon's) business why Orwell's estate (or anyone else) does or doesn't want to license electronic distribution. I personally think it's short-sighted for people not to do so, but that doesn't mean I think leaning on them the way you're describing is a good idea. Heck, I'd be MORE pissed w/ Amazon if they sent a letter like that. That's them using mob... more... - Ken Kennedy
@Brian -- there are lots of (academic, for example) works that I'd like to see on the Kindle that aren't there. I unfailingly click the "I'd like to see the on the Kindle" button, and I hope Amazon does something with it. I've even emailed authors and publishers directly. But I DON'T hope that someone rips them off and publishes things illegally, giving Amazon leverage to send "big bad publisher" letters. - Ken Kennedy
@Ken - Had Amazon *intentionally* sold something it wasn't licensed to sell, sure they should be held accountable. However, a publisher they deal with sold Amazon something that *they* didn't own. That's not Amazon's fault; the ill will should be focused at the publisher who sold it to Amazon rather than Amazon playing copyright-cop. - Brian Baggett
"MobileReference, the publisher in question, formats and sells public domain books on Amazon. The only problem is that George Orwell's Animal Farm and 1984 are not yet in the public domain, at least not in the US. According to Amazon's statement to Ars Technica, "These books were added to our catalog using our self-service platform by a third-party who did not have the rights to the books." -- http://bit.ly/Depgj - Brian Baggett
I really think Amazon's learnt a very important lesson today. I guess the kindle marketplace is a nascent one, and a new foray for Amazon into DRM-encumbered file distribution. One would assume this will not happen again. - Bryce Roney from iPod
Do I have to be anti either? - Jesse Stay from iPhone
Robert Scoble 2009: "Wait a second the whole Amazon Kindle thing yesterday was ABOUT STOLEN property! That changes ALL the anti-Amazon arguments." Philip Mauro, 1906: "All talk about dishonesty and theft in this connection from however high a source is the merest claptrap for there exists no property in ideas musical, literary or artistic except as defined by statute." - Loryn Jenkins
Another point: this story has nothing in particular to do w/ the DRM on Kindle files. The "big deal" is the always-on (by default) connection that you don't often think about, since you don't pay monthly for it. WhisperNet is convenient, but that convenience has a downside. File DRM isn't the issue is b/c Amazon can and does sell ebooks w/o DRM; I bought a Kindle copy Mur Lafferty's... more... - Ken Kennedy
DRM isn't exclusive to a file; DRM can be an aspect of the hardware. - Brian Baggett
Valid point, Brian. But the Kindle isn't really DRM'd in a direct hardware sense...it mounts as a drive if you connect it to a USB port, and you can drag off the files. Most people don't, but there's absolutely nothing stopping you. I backup all my purchases (and yes, that includes stripping the encryption; I have unencrypted backups of all my books). If Amazon made it impossible for... more... - Ken Kennedy
@Brian...just saw your earlier comment: "the ill will should be focused at the publisher who sold it to Amazon". I agree 110%; sorry if it seemed otherwise. There's an argument that could be made that the complicated nature of copyright makes this stuff confusing (ie, the fact that these books are in the public domain in Canada, Australia, and Russia already), but that's no excuse. If... more... - Ken Kennedy
Amazon clearly violated federal "computer tampering" laws. See http://cid-c072ace4f752027c.sp... - Brian K. Stanley, Att'y
Robert Scoble
I haven't looked at Netbooks lately. Is the Asus 1000HE still the best for under $400? Which is the best to run OSX on? Answer on FriendFeed
Yeah, the Asus 1000HE still gives best bang for your buck. That, and it can run games decently. - Sam Goldfield
Robert, you should wait for next lineups which include Nvidia Tegra and ION chipsets that run 1080P videos smoothly. Otherwise, Asus 1000HE is definitely one of the best nowadays, specially in terms of battery life. - Nir Ben Yona
I love OS X on my MSI Wind, plus the battery options are very nice to have in a netbook. - Aaron Dyer
1000HE works fine for me---thrilled about battery life, but haven't moved to OS X on it. You *know* if you buy something, something better is announced the next day... - elspmdi
Nir: when are those coming? - Robert Scoble
I have the MSI Wind and am very happy with it. - Gunneh-MoTo Calls me that
I'm waiting for the Asus 1005HA (out this week) - the fully loaded version. I believe the Dell Mini is still the easiest for running OSX tho - Andy Sternberg from fftogo
I was personally looking at the HP Mini (fully loaded, bluetooth, the works), and Newegg is having a sale for $329.00? - Sam Ferry
depends. some people hate the msi wind. i got it because at the time it was one of the *only* ones that you could overclock. some people get other kinds for the keyboard size but does not have the overclock feature. my msi wind runs the default xp, windows 7, and os x. i have unbuntu on usb and backtrack 4 on sdhc. it's a great little machine for the price with great battery life. it... more... - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
one of the better compatibility charts floating around regarding OSX and Netbooks. http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008... - Jerry Schuman
been using the Acer Aspire One 531 for a while now, the inbuilt 3G module makes it very interesting but today switched to the Samsung N110,what a machine, running windows 7 ultimate is the only way to go - Patphelan
Robert, the new Lenovo IdeaPad S12 with ION chipset is already up for pre-order and scheduled for shipment on July http://bit.ly/kXgMw. Other netbooks with Tegra chipsets are expected to make a debut on Q4. - Nir Ben Yona
What is the benefit of a Netbook over, say a 13-inch MacBook or an iphone? - Curt Mercadante
the boing boing link jerry gave shows the msi wind works well with it. however, there's a hack for the audio i/o -albeit not very elegant but they are working on it and it's getting there. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
Curt: price over Macbook. Screen resolution and flexibility over iPhone. - Robert Scoble
You can put OSX on the 1000HE? I'm posting this with a 1000HE, and I must say I really love the device. - Robert James Massey
curt, a netbook isn't for everybody. i have an iphone, netbook, and macbook pro. you take your netbook when you need to travel on the go but don't want to lug around your primary 3+ grand laptop, risking theft or damage. it has a bigger screen and capabilities than the iphone. they are supposed to complement your existing computing experience -not necessarily replace anything. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
The Dell Mini 9 is supposed to be the most Hackintoshable netbook. - nick
tbh I've never been a fan of the atom processor. It made no sense in buying the equivalent of a 5yr old centrino. A beefed up battery on a centrino benchmarks the same as a netbook. However as others have suggested the ION chipset is the way to go if you want to offload DXVA videos on to it. - Shaf
Ive had the HP Mini 1000, The Acer Aspire one, and the 1000HE. The 1000HE is hands down the leader. - Kyle Nas
shaf, it would be interesting to see what happens when the dual core atoms come out in q4 and how they will stand in regards to the ion. will they integrate the ion some how, or will they compete? the tech is getting better. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
Use my 1000HE now as I write this and I love it. It's great as an extra especially when travelling, but I would not choose it as my main computer. The screen & keyboard is too small for bigger tasks and more hours of work. That said, I do use it a lot! Great when in the kitchen and you need a recipe from Google, or just need to check your email in the living room & don't want to go upstairs to the mainframe station :-) - Morten Blaabjerg
sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq indeed - I'll just wait in the meantime ;) - Shaf
Morten, I actually replaced my touch screen HP with my 1000HE and just hook it up to a 22" monitor when I'm at the house. The ability of the computer to quickly change resolutions makes it even better. Although I am preparing to buy a Mac soon. So... Where can I find details on OSXing my 1000HE? Maybe I should google it. - Robert James Massey
robert scoble, (i just saw your question up there), the ions are supposed to come out near the end of summer. the dual cores by intel released at october at the earliest -meaning netbooks a month after that. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
I run OS X on my Acer Aspire One, works wonderfully and software update works too! - James
We've had excellent results with the $200 Acer Aspire One's. They make an awesome PBX platform. - Ward Mundy
PIAF on an Aspire One is just hilarious. Ward gets bored easily. - Jerry Schuman
Does anyone have heat issues on netbook(running macos x) particularly when running flash? - Ashish
Curt: Ever since I bought my iPhone, I rarely use my Asus netbook anymore. The iPhone effectively replaced it for me. However, when away from home, there times when my netbook is needed. I just wish the video was faster. That is my biggest netbook complaint. - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed
Ward, off topic... PIAF in VirtualBox on Mac mini. Along with a few other virt machines. - Jerry Schuman
sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq ION is just the platform there are already Atoms using the platform albeit mini-ITX and smaller(see the Zotec boards). Mixed reviews so far, think it can handle 720p but struggles at 1080p and you can forget blu-ray - Shaf
good question, I've been wondering the same thing or considering the Ipod touch - freedom fighter mom from twhirl
shaf, the zotac is a mini itx motherboard i've being drooling over for some time. in regards to ion netbooks, the ideapad is the first *netbook* to have ion and plans to be released in a month or two... hence my safe estimate of august for the netbook: http://www.liliputing.com/2009... :) - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
ah, i see the ion netbook (from my previous link) has been now set back to october. this is around a month or two when the atom dual cores plan to be released. both attempt to trackle the prob of smooth hidef playback 720p, not quite 1080p or i yet. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
i hear that Dell mini 9 is the best netbook to run OSX on. I just bought one and going to attempt it. - drinktale
Why not use Ubuntu instead :) - Manuel Mas
Netbooks still Taboo in my opinion, until Neo platform from nVidia shows up. Without decent 3D, I don't call it a computer...Even iPhone has better 3D capabilities than current netbooks... - Adi Rabinovich
I have always been a fan of the Samsung range, check out more here: http://www.sammynetbook.com - Winston
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