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laura x › Comments
I have heard it said that librarianship helped legitimize LGBTQ studies by collecting actively in the area. Anyone have a solid citation trail for this assertion?
first place I'd check is Revolting Librarians or RL Redux.
- DJF
... good idea.
- D0r0th34
Please share if you find good citations?
- Rachel Walden
will do!
- D0r0th34
email GAY-LIBN (http://www-lib.usc.edu/~trimme...) or check their archives (which i can't see right now...)?
- Tara Robertson
there was an article Hope Olson used in one of her feminism and libraries classes that made the same argument about women's studies. it included an example of a multibranch university library in the US that had a separate branch for women's studies (and some other stuff) then those collections were moved into the main branch once women's studies was seen as no longer being a fringe...
more...
- Tara Robertson
Wow. You took classes from Hope Olson. Was she great?
- marthalib
actually, Tara, that would work fine. I'm trying to write a short futurist piece in which I make the point that libraries don't just choose on the basis of already-conferred scholarly legitimacy: we ourselves CONFER scholarly legitimacy.
- D0r0th34
i heard Hope speak in Vancouver at a feminist conference-thing. she opened my eyes to the power structures around how information is organized and how the subject headings we use to describe people can be pretty fucked up. i took Feminism, Librarianship, and Information as a WISE course with her, which was a bit meh. i prefer f2f learning, and the readings only represented a second wave feminist perspective.
- Tara Robertson
RL and RLRedux didn't turn up anything. Since Hope Olson is just down the road a piece, I have made bold to send her an email.
- D0r0th34
You could probably ask Michele Besant, too. Her dissertation was in this area. It's title is: Perceptions of difference : a grounded theory study with white lesbian librarians. She'd know the general background research in LIS in this area.
- Katy S
Progressive Librarian might have published something on the topic: http://libr.org/pl/
- laura x
The full text of Besant's dissertation is in Proquest Dissertations Online.
- DJF
DJF - Plus, Dorothea knows her and they're on the same campus. Making contact should be easy. :)
- Katy S
But for the rest of us who are not so fortunate....
- DJF
True!
- Katy S
And, it's a 152 page PDF of blank pages? WTF?
- DJF
omfg really? ProQuest strikes again.
- D0r0th34
well the UMI copying page is there, and the title page is there, and then it's blank.
- DJF
Life: I'm doin' it wrong.
Bobbi Newman, R1CC1, FFing Enigma (aka Tina) and The Archangel ωαřмaiden liked this
Join Le Club ;)
- The Archangel ωαřмaiden
how so? and does anyone do life right?
- Sir Shuping
*hands Steve an ice cream?*
- Derrick
I'm doin' it wrong, too. Sigh.
- Laura H.
Im pretty sure there is no way to do it right. You make your own right way.
- Mary Carmen
Some people appear to do it right, but I have learned that everybody's life, when viewed from the inside, is a soap opera, and the rest of us just don't know all the drama.
- DJF
Too much ice cream is just as wrong as too little.
- Steve is older than ever
What DJF sez.
- Walt Crawford
*hands Steve a beer?*
- Derrick
sorry dude. I myself have lost the vigor I had at the onset of this morn.
- Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock
Oh, look: a beer!
- Steve is older than ever
You're still here. That means you're doing something right.
- cecily
or that he can't even get that right. ;-)
- DJF
*hands Steve a cod to slap Life with*
- D0r0th34
DJF, feels like that some days!
- Steve is older than ever
If it only feels like that _some_ days, then you're doing pretty well, I'd say.
- DJF
You got a hand and a voice and you're not alone, brother, that's all you need to know. Or so says the song on my iPod at the moment.
- laura x
I remember wanting to die before I was 18 but here I am at 60 and bless all those years I have had..............good bad or indifferent..............hang in there
- VAL D.
"Google Wave: Because You Don't Have Enough Things to Log-In to Already"
Catherine Pellegrino, Rochelle Rochelle, Jen and 2 other people liked this
LOLOL
- laura x
Professionalization in the academy | Harvard Magazine Nov-Dec 2009 - http://harvardmagazine.com/2009...
Chieze Okoye, Lynne d Johnson, Mickey Schafer and 9 other people liked this
"Weirdly, the less social authority a profession enjoys, the more restrictive the barriers to entry and the more rigid the process of producing new producers tend to become. You can become a lawyer in three years, an M.D. in four years, and an M.D.-Ph.D. in six years, but the median time to a doctoral degree in the humanities disciplines is nine years. And the more self-limiting the profession, the harder it is to acquire the credential and enter into practice, and the tighter the identification between the individual practitioner and the discipline."
- cecily
from Bookmarklet
"the most important function of the system is not the production of knowledge. It is the reproduction of the system." oooh, burn!
- laura x
"Up to half of all doctoral students in English drop out before getting their degrees (something that appears to be the case in doctoral education generally), and only about half of the rest end up with the jobs they entered graduate school to get—that is, tenured professorships. Students are told from the very start, almost from the minute they apply to graduate school, that they are effectively entering a lottery. This has to have an effect on professional self-conception."
- cecily
*raises hand* Yep, skipped out of my PhD program in Lit Studies, elected to graduate with a masters and then walked across campus to the LIS school.
- lris
I still dream of getting a Ph.D., but only because of a personal goal. I know it won't have any use/meaning in this career.
- cecily
I'm still working on getting over my feelings of inadequacy about not having a PhD. Sigh.
- laura x
I'd like to read the whole book--this piece is kind of an oddly, or roughly, patched together set of excerpts.
- laura x
I have this article printed out and need to read it soon. I'd say the primary goal of any institution or institutionalized practice is to perpetuate the institution and the practice. From the US Army to Deadheads.
- Steve is older than ever
"the less social authority a profession enjoys, the more restrictive the barriers to entry and the more rigid the process of producing new producers tend to become." -- and we wonder why academics get such short shrift in the press...
- Aaron the Librarian
Yes. Humanities and social science have as their sole aim proving that the institution is the goal. They do it ironically, by demonstration.
- Pete
I really have very little respect for the PhD process, which doesn't prevent me from having an enormous amount of respect for many of the PhD-holding individuals I know. (Hmm, that sentence works just as well if you replace "PhD" with "MLS.")
- Steve is older than ever
As I ponder returning to school, I see this. Thanks. I think. Maybe. ;)
- Derrick
Derrick, if you weren't aware of this yet, you should thank her. :)
- Steve is older than ever
I had a full-ride to a PhD/English program in Chicago. I dumped it after starting my own business. I was making more money than I ever would as a Prof, with far more freedom. I don't regret that at all.
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
As I was reading it, I drew more than a few parallels between the Ph.D. process and the MLIS process, particularly the bit about being told that we're entering a lottery for jobs that don't exist. Except, you know, library schools aren't really telling students that.
- cecily
It's much the same here cecily. So much so that I have occasionally called for a return to an apprenticeship style program for librarians.
- Pete
Steve, I've been out of sorts when it comes to academia for a while. I don't call my graduate school experience very academic, and I've been feeling the distance. I need to upset the apple cart, and thought I'd return to higher ed, but now? Damn. Hmm.
- Derrick
Derrick, I think it's very different if it's not a PhD you are interested in, or if your intention is not to be an academic. It's complex and varies a lot field-by-field. But yeah, talk to a lot of people before you go back to school, especially if it's a doctoral program you are interested in.
- Steve is older than ever
That's exactly what I'm doing, Steve. I don't take it lightly (can one take a doctoral program lightly?). I'm still in the ruminating phase.
- Derrick
I planned to do a PhD but then stopped. it was mainly for bizarre ego purposes ( I stopped short on my first attempt) and not really to do with career. Plus not the best use of a big loan. I may go back to it later, but right now there are better ways for me to move forward.
- Pete
Yeah, definitely research what you're getting into, first. In terms of time and money (and I suspect stress, too), there's a big difference between going back for an MA/MS and going back for a PhD. If anyone isn't sure they want to do the PhD, I often advise them to do a stand-alone MA/MS first, and then apply to a PhD program.
- Katy S
Or you can always go for my kind of masters (an MFA), which is supposed to be terminal, although I always tell people it is terminal in the sense that it leads nowhere.
- laura x
My husband has an MFA. It was terminal until Yale started talking about offering a PhD in studio art
- Amanda
"That it takes longer to get a Ph.D. in the humanities than it does in the social or natural sciences (although those fields also have longer times-to-degree than they once did) seems anomalous, since normally a dissertation in the humanities does not require extensive archival, field, or laboratory work." -- this does not seem anomalous to me. Where a discipline has a methodology...
more...
- Mickey Schafer
"If every graduate student were required to publish a single peer-reviewed article instead of writing a thesis, the net result would probably be a plus for scholarship." -- hmmm. part of me says yes (probably the part that wrote the bleeping dissertation then didn't do anything appropriately scholarly with that 2 1/2 years of research); another says no...but I may be confusing the quals...
more...
- Mickey Schafer
"Put in less personal terms, there is a huge social inefficiency in taking people of high intelligence and devoting resources to training them in programs that half will never complete and for jobs that most will not get" -- yes yes yes.
- Mickey Schafer
Feeling v. intimidated. Agreed to participate in a symposium on the future of libraries, then found out that David Weinberger, Peter Brantley, Susan Gibbons, Joe Janes, and several other HUGE names are also participating. What could I possibly bring to the conversation???
Catherine Pellegrino, Mr. Gunn, John Dupuis and 4 other people liked this
Another X chromosome. The perspective of someone relatively new in the field. Yourself and your smarts.
- laura x
Sense, sensibility, and what Laura sez. Don't be intimidated by any of those names.
- Walt Crawford
Guess I'm just feeling out of practice and out of the loop, so not sure I'm a great choice as a futurist at this point.
- Meredith
I don't know any of those people, so they can't be that important ;) Everyone's version of the future is different. You're bound to have some creative and unique ideas.
- Kenton
Well thanks folks. :)
- Meredith
You'll bring what you always bring, Meredith: intelligence, enthusiasm, & a strong sense of balance.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Are you frickin' KIDDING me? I know what you bring to the table: a reality check that won't bounce. All those people know is the view from 20,000 feet. You live in the real world of constrained budgets, unwary students and colleagues and faculty, and limited influence. Trust me. That panel needs you more than anyone else on it.
- D0r0th34
You probably have the best sense of what kind of service college students need now and in the future, since you talk with them everyday.
- Joe....
As far as I can tell, what everybody else said plus OMG cute baby!
- Elaine Nelson
I guess that's true. I hadn't thought of the fact that I'm the only one on that list who is a front-line public services librarian right now.
- Meredith
what Dorothea said - oh, a LIBARIAN WORKING IN A LIBRARY! kookytalk that.
- jambina
Yeah, I'm going to echo a couple of comments here. I love hearing from front-line librarians alongside people like these. Joe was my adviser in library school, and I know he works a shift at the reference desk, but being a professor is very different than being immersed in the practice of librarianship. Same goes for those others.
- Kaijsa Calkins
agree (1000) with Dorothea. You're actually doing this stuff! Plus, you can point out all the other librarians who are working hard to keep it relative in this day and age--not just offering theories.
- Abigail
Ooh, I like what Dorothea said - a reality check that won't bounce. Meredith, I think you are an intelligent, articulate, and yet down-to-earth and approachable librarian. I think you'll be great at this, and I for one am interested in your view of the future of libraries. :)
- Laura H.
To put things in perspective I suspect I'm not the only one who is intimidated by a superstar librarian like yourself. :)
- aarontay
Thanks everyone! I'm feeling a lot less anxious now. :) Probably the hardest thing for me is playing the role of a futurist -- I am much more of a now-ist and I'm just not thinking in terms of 2020 or even 2012. I'm sure I'll come up with something. :)
- Meredith
Definitely what Dorothea said! Talk about what the future looks like on the ground. So important in panels like this!
- Sarah
Coming back a bit late: Some of us would say the future evolves out of a considered present--and since you think about what's happening and are actually grounded in that present, you're likely to be a breath of fresh air on the panel. (Sounds like an awfully big panel, though...five plus "several"?)
- Walt Crawford
they may have overstuffed the panel expecting a drop or two
- D0r0th34
Remember, futurist = guesser (thanks to Charlie Brooker for that) And I'm sure you're as good a guesser as anyone ;)
- Pete
Brief Programming Note: We'd originally set a goal of finishing up All's Well today. I think a couple people have and a couple have not (zero guilt!), so my question is, do we want to choose a new play today or wait for a couple of days? Also, weigh in with votes for a the next play if you have a preference.
Hm. I'm still on act two, and slightly sheepish, though not guilty. I still intend to finish, though perhaps not today.For the next play, I'd like to put in a word for a late romance, like the Winter's Tale or something like that. If we do another comedy, I might prefer one I already know like Twelfth Night or As You Like it. But really anything would be OK.
- Steve is older than ever
as a lurker who has not cracked open the book, I say go ahead and choose a new play :)
- marthalib
I would love to do The Winter's Tale. Or most anything, really.
- laura x
Winter's Tale works for me.
- Kirsten
Ok, Winter's Tale it is, then, with a goal of finishing on or about the 22nd. I'll be consumed with the last few cantos of Inferno for the next few days, but I'm sure I'll catch up.
- lris
the last cantos of Inferno are the creepiest and best! (except for the Wood of the Suicides, which is creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy.)
- D0r0th34
Yeah, I haven't been enjoying this very much, actually. It's all very ... dark. Much weeping. Much fainting of terror.
- lris
I love the Inferno. But at my college they only taught it in the spring.
- laura x
Well, I am only reading it in the morning, which is as close as I can come to a counteracting context.
- lris
I like thinking of the Chicago Manual of Style as "Chicago Style." Like a pizza. Or hot dog
John (a.k.a. dendroica) and holly liked this
Only not nearly so tasty.
- laura x
My friend Dutch just stopped by worried because I hadn't noticed him wave the other day. "Jesus," he said, "I thought, well what have I done to get that broad pissed off at me?" I love this place.
Kenton, VAL D., Catherine Pellegrino and 6 other people liked this
I wonder how many people besides Dutch can get away with calling Laura "that broad?" (I don't intend to find out if I'm one of them.)
- Steve is older than ever
Heh. Dutch does have the advantage of being 60-something. He also gets away with calling me sweet pea.
- laura x
I saw you in the LSW Wave today! It hasn't gripped me and I'm so busy ... I've only been checking it about once a week. Also, keep forgetting to open it in Chrome which, apparently, helps it run a little faster. I invited you to the Laura wave (no, I didn't start that. I swear).
- Laura Norvig
YouTube - davidrothman.net: On AL and Library 101 - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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RudĩϐЯaЯïan, Joan, Michael Habib and 18 other people liked this
This is how it is done. Rothman at his best, I'd say.
- Steve is older than ever
from Bookmarklet
ahaha, that's fantastic
- Fiona Bradley
I left a comment...I'm curious about the connection he draws between disagreeing with LJ's promotion of the AL, and the use of Movers & Shakers to promote oneself. David?
- Jason Griffey
I'll be curious to hear what David says about that. I think that there would be a bit of a disconnect if the same person is saying "LJ editorial standards are crap because they publish the AL" and "I am proud to have the LJ editors' seal of approval as a Mover and Shaker."
- Steve is older than ever
Erm. If LJ editorial standards are crap, I'm in trouble, 'long of how I've been published there and all.
- D0r0th34
I don't think I'd say that LJ's editorial standards are crap...even though I DO disagree with them publishing the AL. But that said, I really see M&S as an award from my peers...someone had to nominate me (probably several someones). But maybe that's me over-parsing my personal part of it. Plus, what Dorothea said...
- Jason Griffey
Well, note that I said "*if* someone is saying that." I'm not personally concerned about it, but that's what I think David is saying. He also says that LJ publishes lots of stuff that reflects badly on librarians.
- Steve is older than ever
Wonderful. I keep thinking whether I should try to say something about this whole event, and David's done such a fine job here that I probably won't. Doubt that I'll do any vlogs, but I sure liked this one. (And I've commented at David's blog, to close the circle.)
- Walt Crawford
Well, and I quibble with the idea that LJ is a library-propaganda arm constrained to publish only "rah-rah libraries!" stuff. Some of the stuff librarians do is bogus. If LJ reports that, more power to LJ.
- D0r0th34
And this is the answer? Yup. Right on David!
- ɥsıuɐʎɹ
Weak editorial standards can still allow in good stuff- and there *is* good stuff in LJ. There's also a lot of crap.
- David Rothman (☤)
Barbara Fister. Andrew Albanese (before he moved to PW, sigh). Peter Jaczo. They publish better stuff than American Libraries at present.
- D0r0th34
Wondering if AL will be nominated or receive M&S for 2010...would be kind of like when Time was going to give Man of the Year to Osama bin Laden. Time's comment: "He is not a larger than life figure with broad historical sweep...he is smaller than life, a garden-variety terrorist whose evil plan succeeded beyond his highest hopes."
- Lori Reed
*dead* over the Mister Muggles cameo.
- cecily
Mister Muggles was played (with unusual patience) by my kitty, Shelby....who felt it was a good stretch to play a male cat.
- David Rothman (☤)
Very well done, David. I tried to stay out of this fray as much as I could because it devolved into name calling/dogpiling on both sides, but your video is a voice of reason (hopefully just one among many).
- cecily
Best thing I've watched online in ages! :) I honestly can't say that I disagree with anything you said there. I totally wrote off M&S after they honored a certain master of sock-puppetry (though I probably should have sooner).
- Meredith
In addition to praising the content (with which I can't find fault), I also want to say that I've never quite gotten the point of videos that are just a talking head...why not just write down what you have to say? Except, now I get it. Bravo.
- Catherine Pellegrino
Ditto Catherine! I've never been much of a video person. This is everything a video blog post should be, but usually isn't.
- Meredith
Catherine, I had the same reaction. Usually I feel like, "I just want to read your words at my own pace. Please no video." This piece convinced me that sometimes it's worth it to hit Play. :)
- Rachel Walden
It was so helpful to have all of David's inflections and mannerisms the occasional silly face. It would have come across quite differently in print, I think.
- marthalib
What Rachel, Catherine, Marthalib and Meredith just said. Damn, there are a lot of smart female librarians on FF. (Maybe that's because there are a lot of smart...oh, never mind.)
- Walt Crawford
Yeah, it transmits all of those non-verbal cues quite nicely that we wouldn't have gotten with just the text. Plus, I made it through David's entire video without wanting to stop it. That wasn't a bad way to spend roughly 7 minutes.
- Peter Murray
David, I wish there was a non-award that I could "nominate" you for. 'Cause that was your greatest video ever.
- Greg Schwartz
Finally got to watch this. Completely brilliant. Thank you
- laura x
David got it absolutely right.
- Pete
Mr. Rothman provides a fine model for avoiding ad hominem attacks while being constructively critical. Bravo.
- Evil Librarian
Y'all are very kind- thanks for all the feedback. :)
- David Rothman (☤)
This was great. Part of me wonders, though, how honest and forthright some folks (maybe not you) would be with criticism of Library 101 if the AL hadn't been so snarky about it in the first place. But that doesn't detract from how much I enjoyed this. Thanks, David.
- Joan
I think that if AL hadn't been so snarky then ppl who found the video lame would probably have looked at the *intention* of the project - to work together to discuss essential skills for librarians given the technological/social climate- and put their energy there instead of discussing whether low blows and rudeness are appropriate professional skills.
- Kathryn says love n peace
from iPhone
Deciding to skip quiz night for the 9th or 10th time in a row.
Kind of like a pub quiz?
- Julian
So much like a pub quiz that it *is* a pub quiz.
- lris
I've been going to one for a few weeks. Unintentionally fell into it. What keeps you away?
- Julian
I could use a pub right now.
- Chris Z.
I've been either out of town or sick nearly every weekend in that length of time, Julian. A couple of times I've been too tired to think that staying out till 11 would be fun.
- lris
I've been out to pub quiz night twice. Once years ago with friends, and just this fall at Access. It's definitely something that is best done as a group. But I don't know that I'd want to stay out until 11 on a school night.
- DJF
There's a regular group of faculty that I fell in with at this thing. I miss seeing them, but maybe next week.
- lris
ah... so it's _outreach_ ;-)
- DJF
I went to quiz night with Iris and we won! Well, not due to me. But still. It was exciting.
- laura x
Oh that's right. I'd forgotten about that.
- lris
pub = beer
- MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS
Yes, I can indeed confirm that there is beer there. :-)
- lris
A Response to Stephen Abram and SirsiDynix - http://loomware.typepad.com/loomwar...
Richard Akerman, Mr. Gunn, Walt Crawford and 8 other people liked this
hah! give 'im hell, Mark!
- D0r0th34
Love this: "This messy, difficult thing is called innovation, and while it can cause angst for those who prefer stable dysfunctionality,"
- Polly Potter
I am eagerly awaiting Stephen's reply. I love ping pong!
- mita
Is some clever person out there compiling a list of all the responses? 'Cause I was just thinking I should do that, but perhaps someone has already started.
- laura x
Code4Lib is: http://wiki.code4lib.org/index...
- lris
See, I *knew* someone would be on top of this. Or several someones. Thanks!
- laura x
I finished, finally, this afternoon, and am struck by a) how out of shape I am in reading Shakespeare (though I trust it'll come back to me) and b) how much this play reads like one of the obscure tracks you hear on a boxed set of some aging or dead musician, and you think, "huh, that has moments of greatness, but I can see why they didn't put it
on the Greatest Hits album.
- laura x
I see a new workout craze coming...getting back in shape to read shakespeare. Cheesy commercial will include harried looking college student staring at the complete works of Shakespeare and a voice over saying something about being out of shape to read? Then the bard himself pops in to start the training program :)
- Sir Shuping
WBEZ, the main public radio station in Chicago, used to use "exercise your mind" as its slogan, and they had a little drawing of a brain lifting weights to go with it.
- laura x
Happy news! We're buying ebook readers with endowment funds for a pilot program. One each of a Kindle, Nook, Sony Reader and iPod Touch, plus possibly a netbook.
RudĩϐЯaЯïan, Galadriel C., Rochelle Rochelle and 5 other people liked this
So jealous.
- David Rothman (☤)
you'll wanna keep the Touch for yourself, I promise you
- D0r0th34
I love my Touch, but I still haven't managed to read a book on it.
- laura x
Had to fiddle with Stanza a bit to get it where I wanted it, but I can read with it.
- D0r0th34
I'm going to put requests in for a Touch and a Sony Reader in my mid-year budget submission. Kindles are not available in Canada yet, of course.
- John Dupuis
I think if it had margins, I'd be happier, but then that would make the reading area even tinier. I'd really *like* to be able to read on it, as it'd be super convenient, but I'm not quite there yet.
- laura x
Our Dean fully supports this, which is nice. Also, it would be dandy if he would let me keep the iTouch :)
- marthalib
I asked director for a Sony Reader--you know..."THINK OF THE PATRONS!" Also, our consortium will be getting some myILibrary titles through Ingram which are downloadable to Sony Reader. It's a go. Larger program will have to wait, pending me coming up with an actual program.
- Rochelle Rochelle
Song of the South has never been released on home vid. in the US, likely due to the fear it might be seen as racially insensitive to blacks.
Anna Haro, Helen Sventitsky, Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF and 29 other people liked this
There are bootlegs, Rochelle. It was released on laserdisc and in other countries, but not here. The last theatrical release in the U.S. was in 1986.
- Derrick
I can see why. But I did love those stories as a kid.
- Trish R
I've never seen the film, and I'm keen on reading the original stories by Joel Chandler Harris. I'd like to think that we can get to the point where we can view material that is racially insensitive WITHOUT all of a sudden blaming people. The movie was made in 1946, it's nearly 2010. Am I going to look at my non-black friends and go on an attack? Unlikely, but perhaps I give people too much credit.
- Derrick
I agree, Derrick, because the stories are written as being told by Uncle Remus, who spoke that way.
- Trish R
Julius Lester has written some interesting pieces about the stories and Harris. He's also re-written some of the stories. I <3 Julius Lester!
- Katy S
For those who don't know Julius Lester's work: http://members.authorsguild.net/juliusl... Derrick - did you know that he takes pictures??
- Katy S
I'm not familiar with his work, but will check it out. Thanks. :)
- Derrick
He's on a children's literature list serve that I'm on. So are Jane Yolen and Philip Pullman and some other authors. I have to really stifle my fan-girl impulses when they post.
- Katy S
Derrick, I'm not so worried about (black?) people blaming anyone for the material. I'm more worried that if this movie becomes available, a million American people will automatically buy it and show it to their young kids, who will absorb the "happy darkies" stuff without realizing what's wrong with it. I'm torn about making complete sets available. There was some kind of WB DVD set...
more...
- Kamilah Gill
I've never actually seen the whole thing. I would probably buy it if it were available.
- Ha3rvey (Free hugs!)
Kamilah - I'd be just as worried about adults' reactions to it as kids (for the same reasons)
- Katy S
It's funny to me that people are worried about reactions to this movie, when there are other movies out there where so-called "happy darkies" are integral parts of the storyline, but nobody would ever think to ban them. I'm specifically thinking of my (beloved) Gone With The Wind, a movie that's held up as an American classic (and rightly so). How is Song of the South more offensive than GWTW? It makes any protestations and any censorship/suppression moves by the parent companies seem disingenuous.
- cecily
And what about Dumbo? Can't you still get Dumbo on DVD? What about the crows in Dumbo?
- cecily
I agree, C. I do think Disney is one of those really overly cautious companies. Remember, the created the Touchstone Pictures umbrella to release movies that strayed outside of the cutesy Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Escape from Witch Mountain films, because we would get them so confused. And I love those crows.
- Derrick
Cecily - I've never seen Gone With The Wind, but I suspect I'd have a similar reaction. Dumbo just makes me cringe! I wouldn't censor anything, but I still think about how people react to the films.
- Katy S
Katy, I had to work hard to reconcile my feelings for GWTW. I love that movie, but it took me a long time to get there. What helped was trying to think of Prissy's inaction and "simplemindedness" as a form of slave resistance. If I'd never spent time reading slave narratives, I'd have never been able to come to that conclusion. </end_hijack>
- cecily
I'll tell you what movie really made me choke on my diet coke recently. I was watching Heidi with my niece. Somehow, this story that's suppose to take place in Switzerland, looked like it took place in a home that was on a Southern Plantation, complete with a mammy-character.
- Katy S
Dumbo and Lady and the Tramp are both questionable. I just think that Song of the South would get much more exposure, especially to children. It doesn't use animals for all of the racial stereotypes like the others. As for Gone with the Wind, I haven't seen it either, but I'd say it's more clearly aimed toward adults. Though I agree, with you, Katy. The adult exposure to Song of trhe South might be almost as problematic...
- Kamilah Gill
My extensive training with literature and critical examination of it helps me get through the parts that make me cringe. That critical distance thing. Having said that, I'd never give a child a copy of Little House on the Prairie. Just not going to happen.
- Katy S
I watch alot of old games shows and I gasp at some of the things they use to say..........
- VAL D.
I've still got the (original?) 78-RPM set that belonged to my Mom. We used to listen to the stories and songs as kids. "...it's the truth, it's factual; everything is satisfactual!"
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
from iPhone
Zip a dee doo dah is a great, fun song, but I think that's about all I'll need from that movie, thanks.
- Kamilah Gill
"Mister Bluebird's on my shoulder..."
- Katy S
I loved Song of the South as a kid (Br'er Rabbit is a G). I always saw it as a kind of animated Huck Finn or Tom Sawyer. There was a time when I think not having the movie available was more political than anything. Now, I think it's just hard to market (and to what value? There's not a real way to make ancillary money from Consumer Products from the film).
- Jason Toney
Dumbo is coming out on Blu-ray in Feb, FWIW.
- Alix Whitmire
LOVE Dumbo. I need to pre-order.
- Derrick
Animation fans have this discussion all the time. I think WB did a pretty good job handling it in its Golden Collection sets. In the first or second volume, they had an intro you couldn't skip that had Whoopi Goldeberg talking about how some of the cartoons were racist and that although no one was condoning that NOW, they were part of our past and better acknowledged than buried or...
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- Spidra Webster
How odd that you posted this, I just watched this movie last night. lol
- aerobroken
It seems to me that any racist ideology in Song of the South would be counteracted for children (like it was with me as a child) by the cultural attitudes of today. It was made in a different time and even kids today look at early WB cartoons and get something completely different from them than kids fro a generation ago did. I hope that someday they release it and let parents decide what is the best course of action for their own children.
- Kryptic
Katy, what is wrong with Little House on the Prairie? I don't recall anything bad in it but it's been a long time since I've read it.
- Rochelle
Yeah, what is offensive about Little House?
- Matthew DeVries
It's incredibly racist - even for its time. The Indians are described as grunting savages. Ma quotes that "the only good Indian is a dead Indian" line multiple times through the story. It's really foul. Unless you are prepared to discuss the racism throughout the book with the child, I'd avoid it. If you haven't read it since you were a child, read it now as an adult and try to put aside your fond memories so that you can view it with some critical distance.
- Katy S
Also, LHotP is still a popular read-aloud book in many classrooms. I wish it wasn't, because it is often presented uncritically. Imagine hearing the things in that book if you are an American Indian child.
- Katy S
I enjoyed imagining I was one of those savages who put up a charade of attacks to hide the true force that was forthcomming, twas not fun being picked on because of that book when I was younger, then I detailed to my peers the history of the Cherokee and Tsali. On the other hand, I actually like LHotP now and I enjoy SotS as well.
- Tsali, The Native of FF
Katy the same thing would apply to half of the John Wayne, Davy Crokett movies/books. America has been really slow at learning about other cultures and presenting them in a decent light. I think most of the stuff that's been written/read/etc needs to be put into context sometimes. I think the best thing to do is just continue to show by words and actions that the past isn't the way to treat or portray people
- Sir Shuping
Sir Shuping - I agree. These things should be discussed. The problem is, it rarely is with this particular book. It is taught and read uncritically. I didn't say I'd ban or censor the book, I just said that I wouldn't give it to a kid without discussing these things. Sadly, this isn't done very often.
- Katy S
The thing about LHOP is that it's about settlers. It's about people who were "given" land that was taken away from the natives. It's built in to the story. That the characters (somewhat fictionalized versions of real people) called the indigenous people "savages" is only true to what was going on at that time. Teachers, parents, caretakers need to put that stuff in context. http://www.newyorker.com/arts...
- Spidra Webster
The success of some children's lit is interesting in that it is often based on what adults remember fondly. Little Black Sambo has never been out of print, despite the racism throughout it.
- Katy S
Oh I know you weren't saying ban or censor. But maybe my experiences are prejudiced, but even though I read LHOP, saw movies like Song of the South, Dumbo, etc. I never thought of it as showing me how to treat other people. I learned that from the people around me how others were supposed to be treated. Perhaps because we've lived through all of this turmoil and change in how races/cultures/religions/sexual preferences are treated things stand out a bit more (just my deep thought for the evening :)
- Sir Shuping
Spidra - That's true, but again I would say that this should be discussed with readers. My problem with the use of the text is the uncritical way in which it is used and taught, specifically in classrooms. And, most parents don't discuss these books critically with their kids. They just remember how much they loved it and give it to their children for that reason.
- Katy S
I think that's a valid criticism, Katy.
- Spidra Webster
I think it's easy for white folks to read these books and say that they didn't affect them (but, did they play cowboys and indians?), but that's like saying that the people of a minority group shouldn't be offended by something rather than letting them decide what is or isn't offensive. My point is, that Little House is just as bad as these other texts and images that have been...
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- Katy S
fwiw, I first read the book as an adult (although I was familiar with the tv show). I expected some racism just because of the time it was written and the attitudes at that time. I didn't expect it to be quite as bad as it is.
- Katy S
Oh - Louise Erdrich has been writing a really fantastic series of books to counter LHotP. The first book is titled The Birchbark House. Great book, and the writing is much better than Ingalls'.
- Katy S
I'm finding myself obsessed with some stuff where I expect there to be some racial attitudes indicative of the time: Uncle Tom's Cabin, Gone With the Wind, The Confessions of Nat Turner, Sapphira and the Slave Girl, etc. I need to give these all a re-read to give me something to chew on. I always find myself in a curious state when seeing non-black people write about black people.
- Derrick
So fascinating. For the record, I hate Gone With the Wind but love Dumbo and recall liking Song of the South, although that was (obviously) years and years ago. My mother read me the Laura Ingalls Wilder books without comment, though I've since gone back to them and seen that they have Problems. She did, however, upon giving me the Little Colonel books, say, "Now, there are things that...
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- laura x
I haven't re-visited Song of the South since I was a child. I do remember feeling very comforted by Uncle Remus. There was a gentleness to him that was, frankly, missing in a lot of my surroundings. I didn't know enough to know that his way of speaking and singing would be racist... i may be mis-remembering, but I seem to recall that it was 'fun'... playful language. Older, sadder and wiser, I'd now be prepared to revise my take on Song of the South.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
I had a Song of the South album with story/songs from sometime in the 70s, as well as a few other Disney records. Probably acquired at a garage sale.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
Walt Disney actually campaigned for the lead actor, James Baskett, to be considered for an Oscar.
- Melanie Reed
totally with you on the crows in Dumbo. But, um, yes, i love them. for what it's worth, as a child i saw them as funny, weird crows and funny, weird crows only. It was only when i saw Dumbo again as an adult that I noticed that perhaps they weren't just crows.
- edythe
Derrick, I'm glad. Especially in the case of GWTW. I often find people most opposed have not read the book. There is a very pivotal scene that defines freedom and the motivations of one of the lead characters that most people miss.
- Melanie Reed
I did not remember that Hattie McDaniel who won Best Supporting Actress for GWTW was also in Song of the South
- Melanie Reed
Right now I am grading student essays for Othello. They have to create play review forms for each play and aside from some regurgitation of the text and the events, they do have cover motivation and are encouraged to set up arguments based upon the attitudes of the time which are pertinent to the understanding of the play. My point is that this play is going to also be a touchstone. What do we do about portrayals in literature ?
- Melanie Reed
Derrick, Also, my other question is about Joel Chandler Harris who collected the Brer Rabbit stories but did not originate the idea. He is considered a folklorist. Should those stories be preserved or should they be forgotten. Is there something to be lost if they are forgotten? What are your feelings about that?
- Melanie Reed
The grandmother points out a "pickaninny" in "A Good Man is Hard to Find." While reading this to my ninth grader--mainly second-generation South Americans (this was in 2000, in Miami)--there was a collective gasp when I read that word. I took that as a good sign. I did not use it as a "teaching moment," however. I said, basically, "this story was written in the American South of 1955....
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- edythe
Otoh, were we reading The Great Gatsby, I'd have a lot more to say about the depiction of Jews and blacks, as it doesn't have much to do with giving you insight about the book's characters. Similarly, If the part in AGMIHtF was written as, "They drove past a pickaninny," I'd feel differently and perhaps would not have read it to them at all. But then Flannery O'Connor would also be a different writer and... well, you get what I'm saying. Well, I hope you do, anyway.
- edythe
Wow, I had never heard the term "pickaninny" before this thread.
- Alex Scoble
Joey and I had this conversation while waiting in line for Splash Mountain. I would really like to see the movie since I can't remember ever seeing it before (other than the classic zippity-do-dah song). I do think it's kind of funny that people are somewhat against releasing the movie - there are far more offensive things on the interwebs (godhatesfags.com and kkk.com come to mind)
- Kyle Johnson
I am, clearly, a white woman and, of course, have always been so. That may may make me ignorant with respect to many things, although I have always tried and continue to try to pay attention and to be as aware and as sensitive as I possibly can. I am good at putting myself in other people's shoes and I do try to do it as much as i can and to listen. What I'm trying to say, really quite awkwardly, is that if my attitude above seems shockingly dismissive of the Flannery O'Connor scene, please tell me so.
- edythe
Oh, and, Cecily, I very much like your interpretation of Prissy's simplicity being a form of passive resistance!
- edythe
Here's what SOTS says to me: that there is courage in horrible circumstances. That there is joy that survives the deepest pain. That humor is stronger than ignorance. And that if you destroy that you let them beat you.
- Melanie Reed
And yes, Cecily, that is exactly what Margaret Mitchell was saying in Prissy. :) Besides, don't you just kinda clap and lol when she shuts the lid of the trunk and breaks all those dishes?! lol
- Melanie Reed
I watched the Japanese laserdisc version and I found it to be mostly harmless. I understand why it's a sensitive thing because of how the black people are portrayed, as happy slaves, but you have to take it in the context of the time from which it was made. To censor it, kind of goes against the grain of America, in my opinion. We need to remember our past, not cover it up.
- Alex Scoble
Edythe - that makes sense to me. There's a difference in age groups here. Your 9th graders can process what you said about the text more critically than the age group LHotP is written for (approx. 2nd graders). Plus, if you are examining other texts critically - like Gatsby - it's part of the pedagogy, so there is a connection. Actually, I think LHotP would be a great text to use with middle school and/or high school students to discuss these issues.
- Katy S
A quote from Flannery O'Connor, paraphrased (i'd love to know your thoughts): "The artist needs to let the devil have play in the art, lest the devil have play in the artist."
- T. Brent, technopeasant
There is nothing original about evil. It is a corruption of good which is in itself creative. Observing and accurately reporting that corruption does not necessarily arise from creativity. A confession from C. S. Lewis on writing the Screwtape letters: it was one of the most distasteful voices he had to adopt when writing it.. But he did it for a purpose. You can read about it in his afterword of the book
- Melanie Reed
I don't have anything to add (besides that when I bought Peter Pan and we watched it my jaw dropped...I guess growing up in the PNW counterbalanced the depictions of Natives that were in that film, because I completely missed that as a child). I read the Brer Rabbit stories when I was a child and I completely missed the subtext. The 'tar baby'...wow. But at the time I had no idea that...
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- joey
And for someone who doesn't have anything to add, I sure do ramble.
- joey
O'Connor's quote is definitely worth remembering, Brent.
- Christopher Harley
O'Connor is one of my favourite Southern writers. Of her contemporaries, she's one of the few whose black characters were multifaceted, complex individuals who had active lives outside of and away from whites. Even though the races encountered each other frequently in her work, black folk weren't just window dressing in her stories. In light of her work, I think Brent's quote is illuminating.
- cecily
O'Connor is good
- ★ Soner Gönül
Cecily, yes,there are a number of southern writers I appreciate that come to mind in particular Eudora Welty who wrote about living in Mississippi and was inclusive of all the lives she observed. Of her's my favorite is "A Worn Path". The concern I have with Ms. O'Conner is while her aim was not ambiguity, her aim was to highlight Grace, it became an issue- most exceptionally in her "A...
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- Melanie Reed
Not true. It was released in the US as a videodisc back in the 1980's. I got a copy ported over to VHS. It's a shame it isn't available in any other format though. It portrays black people as people with dignity and love in my opinion.
- Kevin Trotman
It's rough around the edges and very, very basic, but for those who were interested in my "what is a web browser" screencast, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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cecily, Laura Norvig, Rochelle Rochelle and 5 other people liked this
I like it!
- marthalib
Thanks. I'm planning a series that will address more things--trying to do them all in one screencast made it much, much too long.
- laura x
You have a nice screencasting voice. "Tabs are to browsers what slicing was to bread" My fave line.
- Satan hates Stevie Nicks
Thanks! My favorite line, too. I hope to be more amusing in the future.
- laura x
Game Time! Below is a quotation. Name the book title, author, and date of publication (if possible). No cheating!!!
Steven Perez, Brian Johns and Stephen Mack liked this
“It was after the catastrophe when they shot the president and machine-gunned the Congress and the army declared a state of emergency. They blamed it on the Islamic fanatics, at the time. Keep calm, they said on television. Everything is under control. I was stunned. Everyone was, I know that. It was hard to believe. The entire government, gone like that. How did they get in, how did it happen? That was when they suspended the Constitution. They said it would be temporary. There wasn’t even rioting in the streets. People stayed home at night, watching television, looking for some direction. There wasn’t even an enemy you could put your finger on.”
- Katy S
How perfectly annoying. I own this book. I know I own it and I'm at a loss. I want to say it's Snow Crash, but I'm sure that's wrong. A Handmaid's Tale, but the Islamic fanatics thing seems wrong. I can also see it being in either Manifold Time or Manifold Space. Or The Stainless Steel Rat Runs for President. I can definitely see it being that last one.
- Anika
MVB's Dream?
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
from iPod
It is The Handmaid's Tale! Margaret Atwood. 1986!
- Katy S
Yay! I was almost close. Although I really was convinced it was in The Stainless Steel Rat for President, it just doesn't seem like the type of book you'd quote.
- Anika
I read all sorts of things. Don't let the academic background fool you. :) But, yeah, reading the line about "Islamic fanatics" was odd considering the date of publication and current paranoia.
- Katy S
Nice. I love the Stainless Steel Rat books. And I've read The Handmaid's Tale multiple times but did not recognize this passage.
- laura x
Just read Make Way for Ducklings to Reed for the first time. He really seemed to like the illustrations.
what's not to like about fuzzy baby ducks?
- D0r0th34
What's not to like about Michael?
- Catherine Pellegrino
I'm so glad he likes it. It's definitely one I can deal with reading to him over and over again.
- Meredith
Oh, fear not, he'll find something you hate that he wants to hear twelve times a day soon enough.
- laura x
Like Green Eggs and Ham.
- Polly Potter
Oh no, it won't be Green Eggs and Ham. It'll be some weird cheap paperback (bonus points for Licensed Characters; double bonus points for Underlying Values Of A Previous Generation) that finds its way into your house through unknown means. Er, not that this has happened to us or anything, no, no....
- Catherine Pellegrino
Yeah, I don't mind Green Eggs and Ham. I'm sure he'll find something terrible that he's desperate for me to read to him in the future.
- Meredith
My (now former) brother-in-law chastised me for introducing The Lorax into their home. My niece loved it and wanted to hear it all of the time. Surprisingly, it wasn't the anti-capitalist/pro-environmentalist part he objected to (I don't think he got that - if he did, he would have objected). No, he was upset because the book is too long and he didn't want to read that much.
- Katy S
lol! I can sympathize. ;-) There are a lot of aspects of books that I think of now since I read to a little one that I never considered when I was buying books for my niece and nephew.
- Meredith
Some kids books are obnoxiously long to read over. and. over. I'm seriously tired of One Fish Two Fish
- Heather Solos
I couldn't even get through One Fish Two Fish with my son -- I didn't remember it being so long!
- Meredith
The great thing about One Fish Two Fish is that (like Go, Dog. Go!) it can be read selectively. And also non-linearly, if you have a kid who's into turning pages. I've read both books both ways a LOT.
- Catherine Pellegrino
True, but he just doesn't like to read anyway. Seriously, if it's longer than a paragraph and not in a golf magazine, he doesn't want anything to do with it. Really, considering her age, he should have been happy that his daughter had that long of an attention span. Fortunately, she does like to read (she's in middle school now). Since my sister isn't a big reader, either, "Grandma" and I see this as a success since we were the ones who really encouraged reading for pleasure.
- Katy S
We just finished a section on Make Way for Ducklings as part of my oldest's kindergarten curriculum. I think I'm going to take them all to feed the ducks over the weekend. It's the wrong time of year for ducklings, but all 3 got a kick out of it.
- Heather Solos
Create your own LibGuides with WordPress - http://bavatuesdays.com/create-...
Sweet! I'm adding this to the WordPress for Libraries wiki!
- laura x
Just confirmed that work will give me the MS Office suite if I buy a new laptop for myself. Little by little I'm talking myself into this.
Catherine Pellegrino, Laura Norvig, Dan Morrill AKA Techwag and 6 other people liked this
Ok. Pretend I've never done this before. Pretend I'm your grandma (only with pretty high expectations from her computer). MacBook or MacBook Pro? Anything I should be sure to get or ask about? I use a Mac at work, but my personal laptops have always been PCs until now, so this really is new to me.
- lris
Also, order online or go to an Apple store?
- lris
MacBook Pro 13 inch, get the iWork suite (Keynote alone is worth it) and if you are buying, definitely get AppleCare. You can sometimes save a few bucks going refurb online.
- Jason Griffey
from twhirl
Don't forget to get the appropriate VGA dongle for connecting to projectors, as well.
- Jason Griffey
from twhirl
Griffey is awesome. :-)
- lris
I am very happy with my basic MacBook, although I really should get AppleCare.
- laura x
(An excellent thread, as I'm considering buying my first evar Mac - thanks for posting, iris!)
- The Archangel ωαřмaiden
I also am happy with Buffle the MacBook, though the new small Pros look pretty gosh-darn nice. Yes to iWork, yes to VGA dongle. Does your work have a tech store? there may be cheaper prices through there. Otherwise, check the difference between a refurb and the education price on Apple's site. Do not bother maxing out the RAM through Apple; you'll spend WAY less buying at OWC or other reputable memory merchant. Um... that's everything I can think of.
- D0r0th34
AppleCare is sold on eBay all the time for waaaay cheaper than through Apple - and it's legit. http://twitter.com/jessamy...
- jambina
Remember to practice your apology for when you forget your dongle, as has happened to some poor mac user at every event I've ever been to. WTF is wrong with VGA, Apple?
- Mr. Gunn
I presented today and did not forget my dongle. *pats self on back*
- marthalib
i've got just the basic macbook, but i'm a mac newbie. you may want to check your workplace as they may offer discounts for ordering the mac through them (educational discounts)
- Sir Shuping
I forgot my dongle because I do not own a dongle. DON'T BE ME (thanks griffey!). I have the basic macbook, and my work had a deal where it gets paid for out of my paycheck (automatically). Dunno if you would have similar?
- MegvMeg
where would be the best place to get the macbook dongle?
- Sir Shuping
I think we all just enjoy saying dongle
- marthalib
will work give you Windows if you want to partition it?
- marthalib
Any Mac store will have the dongle. Don't think price will differ too much. And yes, I have forgotten my dongle -- my FIRST KEYNOTE SPEECH and I forgot the damn dongle.
- D0r0th34
I keep my dongle in my bag. Just sayin'.
- Jason Griffey
As should everyone, jason. As should everyone.
- The Archangel ωαřмaiden
I'm paranoid and, besides taking the dongle along, take a Powerpoint version on a USB stick just in case. Sometimes on two USB sticks. (Also: dongle dongle dongle!)
- Deborah Fitchett
*snerk* at Colleen.
- Jenica
dongledongledongle
- holly
somebody needs to write the Dongle Song
- D0r0th34
now does that have a long o or a short o?
- Sir Shuping
jambina, yes!
- holly
more of an "ah" sound than long o, short o, or oo (but I'm from Massachusetts) p.s. why does my Firefox spellchecker have a problem with how I spell Massachusetts?!
- Aaron the Librarian
The dongle doesn't come with? That's even dumber than not just using VGA to begin with. I'm an iWork doubter but have never used it (and avoid "office" programs as much as possible) so I shouldn't talk. If you plan to plug into an external monitor regularly, check the specs: it used to be that the non-Pro models could only do video mirroring, rather than having dual screen action....
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- Steve is older than ever
Buffle the MacBook can handle dual screens, so I'm betting the new ones can too. And yeah, it's nickel-and-diming that the dongle doesn't come with.
- D0r0th34
Oh, as for how to buy, can you get the education discount at the Mac Store? I was under the impression you had to order from the education store online. Also: shipping without a dongle is stooopid!
- Steve is older than ever
dongle
- marthalib
LOL. Non-pro models have been able to do dual-screen for years (at least 3, since that's when I got my last macbook). Agreed with the nickel-and-diming, but VGA is an old standard...if anything, I'd expect new ones to come with the DVI dongle instead. I tend not to use iWork for anything except Keynote, but if you're giving any presentations at all, it's worth it just for it. Plus, it's...
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- Jason Griffey
yeah, actually a lot of the computer labs on our campus are going all-Mac hardware because even with the extra up-front expense, it's cheaper to dual-boot and run the lab on only one kind of machine.
- D0r0th34
Also: remember all my info is out of date.
- Steve is older than ever
This morning, after my presentation, the session facilitator said to me, "Oh, I see you remembered your dongle. I have a Mac and I always have to work really hard to remember it." True story.
- marthalib
it lives in my bag. Because I don't need it in my office, only when I'm moving around.
- DJF
The dongle doesn't come with the laptop because most people would never use it. I actually borrow my father's for the ~twice a year that I need it.
- Deborah Fitchett
Wow, thanks all. I guess this leaves me to weigh how much I want to plan for the "just in case" of presenting and all that. Where's that crystal ball when I need it? Also, Dongle.
- lris
it prolly won't kill you to wait to buy the DONGLE DONGLE DONGLE until you need it. ;)
- D0r0th34
I'd love to know which of their vaunted usability experts came up with the idea "hey, let's make all our laptops incompatible with every projector in existence!" Maybe they just liked saying dongle too? /dongle
- Mr. Gunn
yeah, I'd like to get my hands around the neck of the guy who designed the port such that the dongle DONGLE dongle falls out of it easily.
- D0r0th34
I do not own a dongle. I put all my presentations on the interwebs and use whatever computer they provide. . . although since I had to present on the computer with a virus at CiL, perhaps I won't be doing that any more.
- laura x
I don't remember if it because I was still at Pierce, or because C was still in school, but we got edu discount on our macbook (3+ yrs ago) at the Apple Store. Also, Applecare totally worth it, even at full price...and I never buy extended warranties. DVD drive died last winter, got it replaced, along with some cosmetic stuff, right before AppleCare expired.
- Elaine Nelson
I think today's the day.
- lris
yay!! so which one are you getting?? make sure you share pictures! :)
- Sir Shuping
... and unboxing
- Fiona Bradley
Woo! Please do keep us updated. Also, I haven't had a chance to type "dongle" yet, so here goes: dongle.
- Catherine Pellegrino
dongle dongle dongle
- lris
i luv iris
- jambina
really, it somehow never gets old. DONGLE
- marthalib
I think we need someone to compose a video tribute to the dongle. Who will volunteer their talents?
- Sir Shuping
Can "Dongle" be the title of an upcoming LSW zine?
- Catherine Pellegrino
Heh. "Reprehensible Dongle"
- Steve is older than ever
oh, Steve, that is good
- marthalib
So, today will not be the day, after all. But soon the day will come.
- lris
Jumping Rothman's Train: I agree with those posting in the Rothman thread that the video was exceptionally effective *as a video*. And one of the "Next LSW ideas" was podcast/videocast. Can we work up enthusiasm for an occasional videocast, done by whomever has something to say & a camera at the time?
David Rothman (☤), JSNFLMNG, holly and Dana Longley liked this
One possibility for the time-crunched: an LSW 12seconds.tv (http://12seconds.tv/) channel? A crappy example I did a while back! http://12seconds.tv/v/USCH5
- Dana Longley
I love the idea, but I don't think I'll contribute. I don't like looking at myself on video or listening to my voice on audio. :-/
- cecily
LSW YouTube channel? I like the idea; not sure I have equipment available to contribute.
- Rachel Walden
I've got equipment and I don't mind looking at/hearing myself (though it's definitely weird and apparently when I was a preschooler it was *deeply* upsetting to me) but I'm not very good with open "Say something about something" topics - if someone gave me an assignment, though... :-)
- Deborah Fitchett
A conversation sounds fun. What kind of logistics are you thinking of: one camera focused on two people in the same location? screen capture of two people in similar timezones skyping? two people emailing an mp4 back and forth and splicing in their comments? (The last would involve a greater lead time but is probably the only way I could realistically contribute; skyping might be possible but is more likely to be awkward due to timezones.)
- Deborah Fitchett
I could possibly handle a conversation.
- cecily
I think there need not be one way to do it, especially if we had a group YouTube channel or video blog. One time it could be a monologue, one time it could be the simultaneous Skype, the other time it could be asynchronous Q&A or whatever. Iris did her little tour of her library from the front door to her office, and that kind of thing could be fun.
- Steve is older than ever
A youtube channel would be cool. Anyone want to register codslap?
- Joe....
We really ought to have codslap as a gmail address, too.
- laura x
Has anyone tried this conference call service. I am on it right now with a state call, and seems to be working fine. I wonder what the recorded output is like though?
- JSNFLMNG
you could also do the LSW channel idea more informally - each week or month there is a topic chosen or put out to LSWers and whoever wants to can upload a video dealing with that topic from their own perspective to the LSW channel, post video and text responses to ones already posted, etc.That way we build up a diverse library of video and discussions/expressions on a variety of topics and anyone can participate (who has a web cam or the like)
- Dana Longley
Bloggingheads does some interesting stuff with video conversations. I've watched a few of them and they've been pretty good: http://bloggingheads.tv/
- John Dupuis
MoMA | The Collection | Robert Overby. Pink Sink. 1989 - http://www.moma.org/collect...
Derrick, Anika and T. Brent, technopeasant liked this
I may need to learn how to oil paint just to do this.
- Steve is older than ever
IMAGE NOT AVAILABLE. But I guess I probably saw the original.
- laura x
Yeah, I love that! I NEED an oil painting that says "IMAGE NOT AVAILABLE" in Helvetica. (Actually, that's not Helvetica in that image, but mine would be.)
- Steve is older than ever
I spent my time in the grocery store line this evening looking for Arial vs. Helvetica. The former won. (I am a Verdana fan, myself, if you're going to go with sans-serif, but anyway.)
- laura x
This is an image.
- Derrick
MoMA | The Collection | Marcel Odenbach. You Can't See the Forest for the Trees. 2003 - http://www.moma.org/collect...
This whole exhibition blew me away last month when I saw it in person, but sadly the web version isn't doing much for me. #artgallery
- laura x
from Bookmarklet
Look! Some of your WY peeps here in NYC! http://www.metmuseum.org/special...
- Stephen Francoeur
Hot damn!
- laura x
I don't believe my ears. I just heard the clip clop of a horse out on 85th Street here on the Upper West Side of Manhattan at 10 pm.
Is it a ghost horse?
- Kendra K
We've switched places! Although actually I only see horses during the day.
- laura x
Laura: my discerning ears detected English riding style, not western (not). Kendra: I'm too scared to investigate that theory now.
- Stephen Francoeur
For anyone who's heard about shooting at Fort Hood--my son is fine--many others are NOT. Details still quite sketchy. :(
Christina Pikas liked this
Ack! So glad your son is ok, but ack!!!
- lris
Fwd: In 20 years, will there be a job called librarian? (via http://friendfeed.com/cristob...) - I'm not going to comment on this thread right now but thought y'all might be interested.
suelibrarian, Joe Silence is not dead and The Archangel ωαřмaiden liked this
I have heard this from a lot of people outside libraries when I tell them I work in libraries. TV and radio are being hit hard as were newspapers/magazines. A lot of people suspect libraries will come next. I really hope not!
- Lori Reed
I thought that was the best part of Michael Porter's improv at rocking battle decks at IL. When he said we can't let libraries go the way of newspapers. We have to evolve ahead of the curve, not behind it.
- Laura Norvig
Filtering information will never go out of style. If people want to call me a Filterer, I will still do what I do.
- Laura Norvig
*waits for some kid to pipe in about how paper is both a crime and obsolete and all libraries should be demolished and all books made into eBooks, with the ones that "aren't worthwhile" summarily pulped or burned for fuel*
- Joe Silence is not dead
Lori: You've taken one heck of a swat against media that are, by and large, doing just fine as they're evolving. Most people still watch lots of TV. Most people still listen to radio. Most magazines are doing just fine--and so, actually, are most smaller and mid-sized (read "truly local") newspapers. Just as truly local libraries should do just fine.
- Walt Crawford
Yes--and public library circulation is generally up across the board, as are doorcounts, etc. I think it's good to think about trends and the future, but you can't take libraries so far ahead of the curve that you leave your patrons behind. I'm still helping people get email addresses for the first time ever. I still check out books--many books--to people who have no interest in getting content over a mobile device. Yeah. What Walt said.
- laura x
What Walt & Laurax said. Fears of libraries going extinct in the face of increasing technology are, I think, terribly overinflated. I think libraries are evolving at exactly the right pace. It might seem like we're living in times that are changing really quickly, but I think that's mostly because we're living in them. In the grand scheme of history, I think this time is really not all that different from the times that came before.
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
(Funny note; a couple of years ago, I was blogging about how libraries were in danger of being left behind by new technologies, & Walt commented that I was overstating & overinflating the issues. In retrospect, I think he was right & I was wrong.)
- josh neff, Fun Dip of FF
Thanks to those who weighed in on the original thread. Cristo is being so polite - it's kind of freaking me out - I don't expect that from him.
- Laura Norvig
laura, it's like he got bit by the nice bug lately. i'm scared. a sign of the apocalypse? ;)
- holly
OMG, Neff. As with DLK, my respect for you just went up a whole bunch--not because you said I was right on that occasion (I'm wrong PLENTY of times and as prone to overstating my case as anyone), but because you joined the still-thin ranks of those who admit that they're wrong on occasion. (G stands for Gaia, if you wonder. Or FSM, if you prefer.)
- Walt Crawford
I am totally taking a screenshot of Walt using "OMG" in a comment. /threadjack
- Catherine Pellegrino
Ever since he had his week of not being negative on FF, Cristo has been more positive in general.
- Katy S
Walt: I don't know I am seeing lots of more local press go bankrupt and out of business in this area. Isn't Reader's Digest going bankrupt or shutting down too? Dozens of reporters were laid off from our local paper. They are adapting but I would not say they are doing fine. TV and radio are suffering because people can watch/listen to the same things from the Internet with less ads or ads that can be skipped.
- Lori Reed
I think the real issue is not whether we will have jobs called librarians but whether the general public will still see a need for us. Yes they see a need for libraries but do they see a need for librarians?
- Lori Reed
Lori: "Lots of... "People can..." The plural of anecdote is still not evidence, and I do follow the overall numbers. Media usage changes slowly; most new forms complement older ones unless the older ones are fatally flawed. If librarians go out of favor, a widespread tendency for internal doom-crying may have a lot to do with it. Tell yourselves (and everybody else listening) that Everything's Digital and Libraries Don't Matter, and people just might listen.
- Walt Crawford
Walt: I am definitely not telling anyone this nor do I believe it. I'm just stating what I hear in my local community when I go to events outside of library events. Anecdotal it may be. My point with the original post was that if this is what people outside libraries are thinking and saying then we need to be working to show them differently. If we took all this energy that we spend...
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- Lori Reed
sometimes the perceptions matter, even when they don't reflect reality. this is why I'm hitting the "no one without disciplinary expertise need apply" thing so hard on Book of Trogool. likewise, sometimes just saying "it ain't so" is insufficient to counter the perception.
- D0r0th34
Chez Mondrian, Paris (Getty Museum) #artgallery - http://www.getty.edu/art...
I'd like to see some art today. Please post something with the #artgallery hash tag or drop a link in the comments to this post. If you have a moment to say why that particular work speaks to you, that would be even better.
- Steve is older than ever
from Bookmarklet
This is Andre Kertesz's "Chez Mondrian," and it brings together one of my favorite photographers and one of my favorite painters. I love the play between the artificial and the organic, light and shade, straight lines and curves.
- Steve is older than ever
http://ff.im/1cx9U Re: Picasso's Guernica - "I hadn't even heard of this painting until I went to art school, and when I found out the story behind it, I was moved in a way that I hadn't been since I read Toni Morrison's Beloved. It really connected life and art for me in a way that I hadn't thought about before."
- Derrick
Guernica and Chez Mondrian were created within 11 years of each other in Europe and both use a limited palette. Other than that, they could hardly be more different. Which is wonderful.
- Steve is older than ever
The second painting on this page lives at my college, and my housemates and I had a print of it in our apartment my last couple of years, so my attachment to it is largely sentimental, but I've also always loved the effect of light filtered through leaves, which is so hard to capture, and this painting adds another dimension to that by having the leaves represented mostly as shadows. Sorry the image is so tiny! http://fllac.vassar.edu/collect...
- laura x
Laura, I love that.
- Steve is older than ever
I'm a fan of photography, and this photo of the Holland House Library is a favourite of mine. I've got a print of it hanging in my office: http://www.englishheritageimages.com/low...
- DJF
WOW! I'm totally co-opting that for Librarian Bomb stationery.
- Steve is older than ever
You've never seen that before? It appears in Alberto Manguel's History of Reading, which is a wonderful book.
- DJF
http://www.sculpturegallery.com/sculptu... Someday I will remember to buy myself a reproduction while I actually have money to spend on such. :)
- D0r0th34
Sad. . . the site DJF linked to is timing out for me.
- laura x
laura, just google [holland house library] and look at the images. It's a photo from 1940.
- DJF
Oh, wow.
- laura x
DJF, I probably had seen it (I own the Manguel book but haven't read it. Ahem.) but had forgotten about it.
- Steve is older than ever
I highly recommend that book. It's very readable, and well illustrated. I particularly like the section on "gendered" reading: girls can read the pink books or the blue books, but boys better not be caught reading a pink book.
- DJF
http://www.junekellygallery.com/eccles... -- Alvin Ailey Dance as captured by Andrew Eccles. Stunning.
- Jennifer McDaniel
Jennifer, I'd like to see this one full-size: http://www.artnet.com/artwork... There is something so compelling about dancers, even in simple and relaxed positions.
- Steve is older than ever
The light on that backdrop with the solitary dancer is nice. Great composition.
- Derrick
@Steve @Derrick Yeah. Now paintings inspired by Alvin Ailey: http://www.blumenfeldart.com/dance.... Saw them in DC a few months ago and I guess that, for me, is what makes the paintings and the photographs so compelling, i.e. I can just imagine the leap or spin they're about to do.
- Jennifer McDaniel
Kara Walker's exhibit at the Whitney: http://ff.im/b2z7v
- Derrick
Jennifer, that's awesome. I too can feel the tension and weight in their movements.
- Derrick
Wow! Now that looks like some powerful stuff, Derrick. I would have loved to see that in person (just noticed the date).
- Jennifer McDaniel
Jennifer, one of the things that's cool about that painting is the way it celebrates the chorographer's art and the dancer's art--both of which tend to be too ephemeral--in visual art.
- Steve is older than ever
Steve, that's a perfect way of putting it. And that's definitely what I'm responding to when I look at the painting. Good idea for a thread -- I've seen some lovely works today thanks to you.
- Jennifer McDaniel
Every year, at least once, there's a writing seminar that uses "globalization" as the general topic around which to structure all their writing. Every year I help out with the research paper piece of the course. Every year I feel like I fail this class miserably despite redesigning it every single time. T minus 10 minutes till my next attempt.
Can you elaborate? That actually sounds kind of fun to me.
- laura x
Elaborate on what? The assignments (which change with each teacher, to some degree)? My failure?
- lris
I'd be curious about the assignments, Iris. When I read "globalization" I cringe at the vastness of the word and how difficult it is to bring such a concept down to a meaningful, local level -- the kind of level that students appreciate and generally produces better writing and research. I have a similar problem with a lot of the "whole university" wide reading stuff -- great concept,...
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- Mickey Schafer
Yeah, I'm curious about the assignments, and about how you try (and perhaps fail) to support them.
- laura x
Most of our writing seminars pick a theme, and then do all their writing for the term based around that theme. One of the themes that gets taught once or twice a year is "globalization," and it's taught by different teachers who just use the same reader and the same theme as a hook for their own courses. Typically, one of the kinds of writing they teach is the basic college research...
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- lris
Been there :) I often get students to use thesaurus functions to narrow searches, and that can work- globalization as DE is better than KW ;). Also, yes, globalization is a huge area. It might even be worth getting the *tutors* to not use the word, or instead speak of 'globalization and....'
- Pete
I'd hope that the professors see wrestling with "globalization" as a blanket term as one of the goals of the course. So confusion about the word is at the core of what they are doing, and will likely take them all term to to come to grips with it at all. Usually when we come into a course to talk about research, we aren't tasked with attacking the central problem of the course head-on. So confused students aren't fun for us, but they seem inevitable in this case.
- Steve is older than ever
Pain- you will have it. Sociology is the new UFC.
- Pete
Yes, that was pretty consistent mano-a-mano imagery there, wasn't it?
- Steve is older than ever
From a practical standpoint as one who teaches the writing of research-y papers, the problem was well stated with the phrase "paralyzingly huge" -- I don't think it is the librarian's responsibility to re-word poorly-conceptualized writing assignments -- something content professors are notorious for (write a 15 page paper on X -- turn in on last day of class -- it counts for 50% of...
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- Mickey Schafer
Pete -- lol! Had to share that one with colleagues who often suffer from FF inspired interruptions.
- Mickey Schafer
"Also, most programs are more interesting than this one." Favorite line so far in the reading for http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb...
suelibrarian and Steve is older than ever liked this
Are you planning to do that course systematically?
- Steve is older than ever
That is my plan, yes--I'm following along via this Dreamwidth community: http://intro-to-cs.dreamwidth.org/ (thanks to Dorothea for pointing me to geekfeminism.org, which in turn pointed me to this)
- laura x
OMG IT'S NATIONAL DOUGHNUT DAY! AGAIN! And yet here I am without a doughnut. Sad panda.
Derrick and Mike Nencetti liked this
WAIT, WHAT?!?!??? OMG Krispy Kreme will have their hot'n'now sign on for another 1.5 hours. I can make it!!!!
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Why didn't you tell me this before I got to work?
- Alan Simpson
wha??? i didn't know this. how did i not know this???
- Sir Shuping
No doughnuts to be had for 30 miles. So sad.
- laura x
I'm currently in jail. Not easy to get to donuts here
- Alan Simpson
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