Sean, if only I knew. This was delivered directly to me fresh and hot.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Wow, whatever you do, don't google "Asian guys at beach licking" if you want to find the Flickr account for this. No, seriously. Just...don't. o.O
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
changed my life forever...I will always go to the beach with a a few chubby buddies after porking myself up for those bosoms ~ and this image is most definitely going in the ol' spank bank
- sofarsoShawn
Remember ! I bring quality product to Friend Feed !:)
- Akiva Moskovitz
you know what would be funny: ok bear with me, if we blindfolded leather donut (you know the booby man) and...yeah fill in the blanks...something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- sofarsoShawn
Sir, randomly linking to your FriendFeed from one of my posts is oh wait you'll never see this because you're blocked for spamming. Thanks anyway, kaghazrangy.
- Akiva Moskovitz
damn this picture just won't go away - you have forced me to hide it
- William Harryman
Akiva, wasn't that pic taken at your last BBQ?
- Paul
Every time I see this picture I smile. Their joy is infectious, like herpes.
- Sparky, a big deal
Paul, I surely do wish I had a beach in my back yard!
- Akiva Moskovitz
Sparky, I'm going to have this blown up to poster-size and attaching it to the ceiling above our bed. That'll cause some infections!
- Akiva Moskovitz
makes me want to grow a rack and diddle with my own, know what I'm saying?
- sofarsoShawn
this. . . .this. . . ugh . . . so fucking wrong.
- Peter Ghosh
Akiva - you can put anything you want above our bed.
- Sparky, a big deal
i've been trying to formulate a comment for this for days, but i just...can't.
- joey
I still want to know the motivation here. is this a gay marriage argument? or are we already pushing group social contracts on friendfeed?
- Noah David Simon
oh man this one keeps popping up on ma friendfeed,....must spread virus nao
- Chris Hofmann
I'm surprised no one's noticed old boy's red-framed glasses.
- Akiva Moskovitz
oh right... the glasses are so important when three asian men are licking his nipples and all the comments are by people who think gay marriage has something to do with equality... when it has everything to do with taking protections away from children. the red glass glasses.... um yeah. chicken and Oklahoma with milk
- Noah David Simon
Mark, you have uncovered the dark underbelly of humanity except in this case it isn't dark but is rather a pasty hue somewhere in the vicinity of undercooked flan.
- Akiva Moskovitz
This should be in the default noobie FF stream. Like the first thing anyone who signs up sees. If they stick around they're part of the family.
- Internet's Tad
Perhaps this can replace the kitty pic on the start page for non-members!
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I'm certain prop8 had nothing to do with Swine Flu
- Noah David Simon
I'm thinking that eventually, it will have been hidden by every user on FriendFeed. It'll be the most hidden post in FriendFeed history.
- Akiva Moskovitz
WHY WHY KEEP BRINGING BACK THE EYES THEY HURT ME
- Neal Jansons
from IM
I wonder if the FriendFeed guys see this and say to themselves, 'Well, this isn't exactly what we had in mind when we started started FriendFeed.'
- Akiva Moskovitz
I look at it and think, "Not again."
- Steven Perez
from IM
Just about the time you FF is getting some class .. Oh well we is what we is.
- Brent - Long Live Rock
I can't believe after all this time some diligent FF'er hasn't dug up the identities (I said "titties") of this bunch and invited them to join the service that made them famous. Mitchell Tsai, get to work!
- Sprague D
i think if you unlike and delete all your comments anna it'll go away, but hide in general would be nice too (this photo makes me smile every time it pops up so don't mind it)...
- mike "glemak" dunn
*sigh* This is never going away, is it? It's gonna end up like James Bond movies and Swedish meatballs - always existing in the same form. never diminshing, never forgotten. :( :( :(
- Steven Perez
from IM
It will go away, to be replaced with photoshops of the original. It's all part of the meme lifecycle.
- Sparky, a big deal
I am too new on friendfeed to know anything about record comments.. I love gmail tho, puts all the comments in one threaded email and I can delete them all later in one shot or not if I choose..
- David Gross
from email
well we should aim to beat the record.. i mean jeez there are tons of things that could be said about this.. like.. does it taste like chicken?
- ed fry
I'm gonna have nightmares now. thanks ed. ;)
- Alejandro
ok, in Japanese: "an, an, soko dame!"
- Rick Cogley
You can't close this thread. A lot of people say that this place is a Scoble-fest but, truly, it is this thread that is at the very heart of FriendFeed.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I'm officially going to proclaim that this is the FF equivalent of Goatse or FFoatse if you will. Lets all refer to it as that from this point forward.
- Mark Krynsky
Sparky has left 57 comments. The rest of you are slacking. Hop to it!
- Christopher Harley
Chrisitan just walked by and said "It's too early in the morning for Japanese titty licking." It's NEVER too early for Japanese titty licking.
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
THIS is the first thing I see here this morning?
- l0ckergn0me
Chris, you just woke up? C'mon, man! It's 10:30!
- Akiva Moskovitz
I knew he would break eventually - it's fitting that it's on this thread *now to find out how to hide a thread once you've commented....*
- WorldofHiglet
As much as I am loathe to bump this post, I have to do it to say, You, sir, are a master. Well played, sir. Well played. This is why I take every opportunity to say, in my next life, I want to be Akiva. I've already called it! Don't anybody go getting any more ideas.
- ♥patricia♥
I, for one, refuse to "bump" posts...it's very unseemly...
- Live4Emma (L4S)
I wish FF-search allowed to do GROUP BY -aggregations so I could COUNT(*) who are the biggest *bump*ers. :)
- Jemm
Makes me laugh everytime I see it. Such a happy yet silly scene by the sea.
- Toby Graham
There is nothing silly about it. This is serious business.
- Sparky, a big deal
The more I see this, the more I like it. Not for the ironic nipple-licking, but because these kids are genuinely enjoying themselves. :) Carry on.
- felicious
This photo looks so much better in iPhone 3.0!#!~
- Akiva Moskovitz
Seriously dude. What do I have to do to get rid of this disgusting picture!? Doh! Now I've just pushed it back to the top... yuck, I'm so sickened.
- Jason Nunnelley
I love this image, because I have no clue why it's happening. Randomness FTW!!
- Jimminy
from twhirl
I'm just thinking of all the new folks coming to friend feed and see this and wonder just what the hell did I get into anyway? And why in Gods name can't I spell Friend correctly the first time - GRRRRRR
- Brent - Long Live Rock
Can't believe I never hit 'like' on this! Consider the situation rectumfied.
- Bec Rowe @d0tski
Oops! I hope I didn't just bump this up again... ;-)
- Sprague D
It's just so refreshing to see genuine juvenile humour at work. These kids are no different from any other, I think it's a great happy image, given all the other shite happening in this world on a daily basis. For those that are too pompous and prudish, 'up yours with brass knobs'
- ImJustCreative
Wow. 666. Nice! Actually, the reason Asashoryu is getting a divorce ( http://ff.im/4T0UA ), is because he wants to spend time with this lot.
- Rick Cogley
To this day, the pic still comes back. Just like Herpes. :D
- Danny Minick
Although unlike herpes this photo is fun to share with friends.
- Sparky, a big deal
I would rather go to http://woot.com and buy the Acer Aspire One for $259.99, I do not care that it is a refurb.. but what would I do with two laptops? Maybe #hive knows? hmm..
- David Gross
from email
What's this? A real question in this thread? Two extra laptops? Make them fancy digital photo frames.
- Jordan Hofker
Reason #696 why the Internet can grant you immortality. ;-)
- darnell
from BuddyFeed
I can't believe this thing is still floating around Friendfeed. These poor guys... ha ha ha
- Bradley Farless
@SeanMcGee sorry about the spam, this thread is sorta spammy.. I get the messages in email perfect for replying with any message because it then gets posted on twitter and facebook.. I do not do it all the time, look at my other posts in this stream..
- David Gross
from email
Lactating, males last resort to save ourselves, now that they can create sperm in labs.
- Jimminy
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started feeding it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue feeding it forever just because...This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started feeding it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue feeding it forever just because...This is the thread that...
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- David Gross
from email
This thread makes me want Friendfeed to have an option for large threads to load 10 of x comments, rather than load x more comments.
- Sparky, a big deal
I definitely agree, Sparky, but I'd like both, "View x more comments - View last 10 comments" is what I'd love to see.
- Jimminy
Perhaps have it show up just after the 'x more comments' if x > 25 or something.
- Sparky, a big deal
I have 89 :( emails since july 10th.. that includes the ones I sent.
- David Gross
from email
gmail comes in handy, it keeps all the email in conversations, 100 messages at a time but because the subject " :( " it will not filter out so they dont go to inbox.
- David Gross
from email
*THOUGHT FOR THE DAY...* Women are like phones: They like to be held, talked to, and touched often. But push the wrong button and your ass is disconnected.
- David Gross
from email
all this oral stuff is just begging the question of when do they start with the money shots?
- Noah David Simon
I just use this image as a way to announce crap. no one really pays attention to my feed... except my enemies. so when I have something important to say I tell the Asian Titty lickers. it is my strong belief that this thread needs it's very own domain name. something like http://xrl.us/TittyLickers
- Noah David Simon
You know, every time this pops up, since FF hides the middle of the comments of which there are 804 or so, I see Akiva say "I'm sorry." at the top. It makes me wonder about how some things are just not possible to apologize for!
- Rick Cogley
wow, I can't believe tomorrow is Friday :o) no, wait, somewhere in the world it's ALREADY Friday :o)
- David Gross
from email
Thanks Rick, thats what I thought.. does that mean I can start with the #followfriday on twitter or do I have to wait till it is Friday here in NJ? would be funny to post it from this post LOL all my friendfeed goes to twitter..
- David Gross
from email
David - yeah, you can get an early start.
- Rick Cogley
Rick, I am not good at lists or #followfriday but there are lotsa good people in this thread.
- David Gross
from email
the thing that strikes me about this (aside from the obvious) is after seeing this thing pop up like 35-40 times since March its just occurred to me that I don't have any (guy) friends that a) would lick my nipples b) would lick my nipples for a photograph. Maybe I should get out more...
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
I'm a little scared that I've this has gotten more than 800 comments and almost 200 likes over nearly five months and I still haven't clicked "Hide."
- Scott of Two Countries
It's just a bit of fun. I mean watching how many comment, not the picture content (although I suspect that is all that was too!)
- Ian May
Allright, you guys ready to shoot "mirth and girth"?
- Rick Cogley
For the life of me, I'll never understand the emotion people have around this picture for or against. There's no nudity at all, not even implied nudity. Less dude nudity than a beer commercial or cigarette ad, yet there are people who really really really hate this picture.
- Matthew DeVries
I found a way to get a Tit Theme, and it involves this picture.
- Jimminy
Hahahaha! It's like a telethon. And after Joey Bishop goes off stage, they flash this picture on the screen. "Won't you think of the CHILDREN?"
- Spidra Webster
It's been a while, hope the magnetism still prevails...
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
I just had to bump this once more... gives me a whole new excuse to go look at Phoebe again!
- Mark Jepsen
Hmmm, where do you think they're from? My guess is Japan...
- sofarsoShawn
The bumping algorithm includes things like novel people posting to it, in addition to thread age, and rapidity of comments. If the same 3 people are talking in a thread, it quits bumping because it's obviously a closed tea party.
- Matthew DeVries
I forgot, also you're a very handsome guy(saw the wedding images), I don't understand why you don't like to share your face. Rochelle is a lucky lady.
- Jimminy
Jimminy, it's an irrational phobia. No different than people who are afraid of heights, spiders, clowns, or Canada.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, now I'm LMAO at the fear of Canada. People are actually afraid of Canada, or just the fact they don't know if they're British or French?
- Jimminy
I don't think even Canadians know that difference.
- Akiva Moskovitz
If Friendfeed had sound .. this thread would be all licks and slurps
- Mattb4rd
Sorry Akiva, I think it was the display picture.. I have known male and female Akivas.. Oh and by the way guys I am not afraid of Canada LOL will be there this weekend.. Dave Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes...> - "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."
- David Gross
from email
I popped the 666 cherry and I will get 1000 also.
- Jimminy
If it gets to 1000 will Akiva lock it so it can sink from our feeds forever? Please?!?
- WorldofHiglet
I think locking this post would be un-FriendFeedian.
- Jason Huebel
This is the immortal post everyone who uses the service must see it so WoH it just wouldn't be good to lock it.
- Jimminy
Not everyone see's it, only the people with true class do.
- Sparky, a big deal
It keeps on going and going and going....
- David Gross
from email
In the Hall of Great Posts at the FriendFeed museum, this shall be hung high on the wall with pride.
- Johnny Worthington
I'M THE ROCK AND ROLL CLOWN.. AND I LIKE COCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINE
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
*Wispering to Murderface* "Seriously man, I do... A LOT of cocaine."
- Matt Stoddard
It is now September 1st, and this has not reached 1000 comments. I am sorely disappointed. Yet, for some reason, I am uplifted by the smile of this young man, who was fortunate enough to have such great friends that fateful day on the beach.
- Josh Haley
Quick let's add some comments... Gee that guy on the far left is not really getting into the swing of things is he?
- Travis Koger
Travis... bear in mind that we don't know what "main chubby guy's" right hand is doing, or where it's doing whatever it's doing...
- Mark Jepsen
BUT WE CAN INFER WHAT "MAIN CHUBBY GUY'S" HANDS ARE DOING. BOTH OF THEM.
- Sparky, a big deal
@Mark, of interest (well not really) is the location of Front Left guy's left hand.
- Travis Koger
The photo of Akiva in the jacuzzi with the Texas A&M cheerleaders would be so much more popular. Now if only someone would post it.
- Christopher Harley
Noooooooooooooooooooooo! Posted March 1st and we are still enduring the wrath! "Akiva's posts, now with more staying power than ever before!"
- Nicholas Kreidberg
YAY! OVER 1000 COMMENTS BLAAAARGBLBLLB
- Josh Haley
This thread was how I discovered Akiva. ROFL... Y.M.C.A.! BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP! GAZE AT IT! DON'T LOOK AWAY! >:O I SED DON'T LOOK AWAY!!! ... ^_^
- Danny Minick
On Fark, there was this one thread, that just kept growing and growing. On Fark, it was a single page per thread. And you could post images and gif inline. Well the thread wouldn't die, people just kept posting. I forget which one it was. Anyway, it got so monsterous, that few people going to read/post to it per day (which was only a handfull) accounted for 1/3 of the server load of the site. They eventually had to cull that thread.
- Matthew DeVries
I think everyone who has participated in this thread has 'culled' themselves privately.
- Akiva Moskovitz
What with all the copycat images this has inspired I hope our muse continues to stick around and not get lost in the shuffle of so many knockoffs.
- Sparky, a big deal
SHUT UP SPARKY!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111!!!!
- Andru Edwards
I refuse to shut up about the glory that is this thread. REFUSE.
- Sparky, a big deal
Yes, Vezquex, I'm jealous of those guys, it is warm there, nothing like a warm beatch..
- David Gross
from email
Yes, Sparky, they do not know how good they have it there frolicking on the beach while we freeze up here.. Hard to believe it is only 49 degrees, feels like 29.. I bet it's at least 85 degrees on that beach.
- David Gross
from email
Anyone who doesn't appreciate this thread is clearly not developing a FriendFeed iPhone client because this is a great stress test case. (It crashes BuddyFeed, by the way.)
- Akiva Moskovitz
from iPhone
Also it exercises the crap out of your thumb trying to scroll down to the bottom of it.
- Akiva Moskovitz
from iPhone
Do you need to appreciate the pic in order to appreciate the thread?
- Travis Koger
If I un-collapse this thread, will it break my computer?
- Eivind
Every time this thread gets a bumped, god kills a kitten
- Matthew DeVries
Matthew, you may have given some people more reason to keep bumping this thread.
- Victor Ganata
How does it give you thumb exercise? Whatever you're doing, why don't you either use the keyboard or switch to Linux so you can middle-click the scrollbar to jump to where you want? :P
- Tanath
actually this thread does not bother me because I get it in email and gmail groups them and starts new thread after every 100 comments. I have it autoarchived so I do not have to see on phone lol and just see when I look at my ffeed label in gmail.
- David Gross
from email
"In other words, Facebook users comment on stuff from only about 5-7% of their Facebook friends. And as has been shown by many other studies, women communicate with more people in all cases than men. “People who are members of online social networks are not so much ‘networking’ as they are ‘broadcasting their lives to an outer tier of acquaintances who aren’t necessarily inside the Dunbar circle,’” Lee Rainie, the director of the Pew Internet & American Life Project, says."
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
@Thomas: +3. The only reason I go there is when one of my High School friends finds me there.
- AJ Kohn
I'm doing something wrong or I'm really unpopular, 120 "friends" or 500 "friends", who are these people?
- Ace
Interesting stats. I do have to work on those 10 friends, I am not quite talkative.
- Carlos Lorenzo
every now and again it sort of freaks me out when I log on to facebook and some random person tries to chat with me. I don't want that. I have AIM and Yahoo Messenger for that.
- Thomas Hawk
Memo to Web sociologists: Dunbar Number is meaningless online. It is a measure of physical interaction in the RW, limited by time and transportation, not mental abilities of humans. Online, we can have multiples of Dunbar numbers simultaneously.
- Bora Zivkovic
That is incorrect: "Dunbar's number was first proposed by British anthropologist Robin Dunbar, who theorized that "this limit is a direct function of relative neocortex size, and that this in turn limits group size ... the limit imposed by neocortical processing capacity is simply on the number of individuals with whom a stable inter-personal relationship can be maintained.""
- coldbrew
Dunbar was dead wrong - the limitations are not cognitive,
- Bora Zivkovic
It was and is a theory, and it didn't ever cite a specific number. Your original statement was that it was based on real world interactions when, in fact, it was based on "neocortical processing capacity."
- coldbrew
The Memo was to sociologists, not to Dunbar himself, because it is them who took it and ran away with it, assigning it a number and not realizing that limitations are physical, not cognitive. They fell in love with the idea, without critically engaging with it. I am glad that I know Communications profs who have realized this and teach about Dunbar Number correctly in the context of the Web.
- Bora Zivkovic
From the post, it was unclear whether the communications were measured for all time, or just within a particular period (i.e. the last six months). I just joined Facebook Thursday morning, so my comment ratio is pretty high.
- Ontario Emperor
So you could probably handle 300,000 personal relationships because cognition isn't an issue?
- coldbrew
It is to be seen what the cognitive limits are. Online, one can swiftly move from one social circle to another. A lot of it does not even require 1-to-1: I check quickly what everyone is broadcasting, and I hope many of them quickly scan what I am broadcasting. I may get into 1-to-1 with one or several of them in the morning, and a totally different group in the afternoon.
- Bora Zivkovic
About 90% of the people in the world - and this includes the highly mobile USA - are born, live and die in one place, often in the same house, rarely or never traveling more than 100 miles from their birthplace. They build their social network in RL - and that is about 150 people.
- Bora Zivkovic
Online, one can have multiples of social groups. Last week in NYC, I met and had a grand time with my "NYC social circle", all initially discovered online, although I may not be in daily contact with any one of them. One's social groups go in and out of one's attention all the time. We go through phases several times a day.
- Bora Zivkovic
And I do not consider my NYC friends any lesser than friends I have at home where I live. I know some people from online interactions MUCH better, in greater depth and detail of mutual understanding, than my next-door neighbors, in-laws or the person I worked with for a year in 2001.
- Bora Zivkovic
I'm having trouble rectifying two statements you've made: 1) "the limitations are not cognitive" 2) "It is to be seen what the cognitive limits are."
- coldbrew
Dunbar Number, used by sociologists to be around 150 is not the cognitive limit. Cognitive limit will be larger, much larger. It exists, but we did not get there (i.e., determining/measuring it) yet. Ask Scoble - he may be close ;-)
- Bora Zivkovic
"Dunbar's number is a theoretical cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships...No precise value has been proposed for Dunbar's number, but a commonly cited approximation is 150."
- coldbrew
Another problem is temporal. In the example of the usual people who never travel, their social circle is pretty static throughout their lives. But for people like us, it can be quite dynamic. You engage intensively with a group for a while, then move on, then come back to the same group 20 years later, etc. So, there is now a temporal dynamic on top of spatial and we need to agree on what the definitions are (e.g., time-frame of one's Number).
- Bora Zivkovic
I agree with that, and I believe the number will differ among people substantially; but there will always be an average. I don't think you'll find an argument from anyone that digital communications removes the barriers to interact with greater numbers of people, but one's Dunbar number depends on whether a few simple interactions constitutes a "stable social relationship." [EDIT: removed pronoun for clarity ]
- coldbrew
I agree we need to have a good definition of the terms "stable", "social" and "relationship". I am now brewing a blog post about this - thank you ;-)
- Bora Zivkovic
That sounds like a good idea. This can be quite an academic discussion, and somewhat distant from my formal education (hm, I wonder if you could draw parallels to molecular interactions? Some proteins are comprised of thousands of atoms.). I'll be sure to read your take.
- coldbrew
Social media is really great for increasing one's "loose ties". It doesn't have to be merely broadcast. You can engage with people when they're doing something what interests you.
- Meryn Stol
http://friendfeed.com/e... "What mainly goes up, therefore, is not the core network but the number of casual contacts that people track more passively. This corroborates Dr Marsden’s ideas about core networks, since even those Facebook users with the most friends communicate only with a relatively small...
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- Noah David Simon
I really don't see significant difference here between gender. I would of thought it would be higher. ...no I really do think it would be higher.. these numbers are quite misleading. the intimacy in the contacts are quite different in a number spread between genders. women are more apt to have more semi intimate friends and males are more likely to have more very intimate friends. and...
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- Noah David Simon
I think FB missed a bet to turn off user comments on a whole host of things. When users post status updates to their own wall, any of their friends can comment. When anyone else writes on a given user's wall, no one can comment on those posts. Stupid decision.
- Andrew C
Woot, and today I see comments on wall messages are back.
- Andrew C
"In the next several months Yahoo will begin rolling out new versions of its most popular products, from Yahoo Mail to the Yahoo home page. A thread of social media features, including a common user profile, list of friends and regular updates about friends, will tie the family of Yahoo properties together. When an individual recommends a news story from the Yahoo homepage, uploads a photograph on Flickr or makes a trade on a fantasy baseball team from Yahoo sports, Yahoo will send an alert to a network of friends or contacts. Yahoo is developing technology to broadcast roughly 100 types of such posts and actions."
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
I.e. they are trying to tack Facebook onto their existing properties? Feels a little late to the party, but better late than never.
- J. McConnell
Tracx ranks people according to various quantitative and qualitative parameters, analyzing activities in various social networks while putting an emphasis on "power users", contacts and interactions. Learn more http://tra.cx Brought to you by Go2web20.net - The web applications index
Tracx ranks people according to various quantitative and qualitative parameters, analyzing activities in various social networks while putting an emphasis on "power users", contacts and interactions. Learn more http://tra.cx Brought to you by Go2web20.net - The web applications index
Tracx ranks people according to various quantitative and qualitative parameters, analyzing activities in various social networks while putting an emphasis on "power users", contacts and interactions. Learn more http://tra.cx Brought to you by Go2web20.net - The web applications index
- Johnn Luevanos
The reason I ask is that most of those protocols and formats don't use much of the extras that XML is required for (schemas, namespaces, attributes, data escaping, etc). Simple key/value/dict/array/string/number structures would be sufficient in all those cases. If you could take a do-over, would you?
- DeWitt Clinton
"On the other hand, gratuitous syntactic diversity is not a feature. I remember in the early days of XML, Tim Bray used to start his pitch for XML by showing a whole bunch of widely different Linux config file formats. It was quite compelling: the lack of consistency was obviously confusing and pointless. Now I don't think anybody would suggest that XML is the right format for...
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- Shakeel Mahate
The above quote is from James Clark http://blog.jclark.com/2008... where he is discussing MGrammar from Microsoft. But it is asking the same question as you are.
- Shakeel Mahate
Great question! And if you look at how I use XML, you know the answer is yes. I have no love for XML, I thought it was over engineered, and too much was promised for it, but everyone wanted to do it, and that convinced me. The important thing is the consensus. One way to do things. And the second guy to come along has the power to make the standard, and in XML I was one of the "second guys" (the first wave were the guys at Microsoft, Netscape, Sun, etc).
- Dave Winer
So, by accepting the invitation to design my own formats as long as I used XML, I thought everyone would be happy. Turned out not to be so, they wanted to control things all the way up to the top of the stack, the arguments never stopped. That's what I like about JSON, it has a low-techness to it, no fuss, no pretension. That's how I viewed XML.
- Dave Winer
But... Look at what we were able to do with XML. One of the proudest moments for me was when Eric Raymond discovered XML-RPC and said it had the same philosophy as Unix. I grew up on Unix as Unix was growing up, and that's the highest compliment, I could write a book on why Unix does so much yet is so empty and open. That's what I hope for everything I do.
- Dave Winer
Great response, Dave. Thanks for answering!
- DeWitt Clinton
I never minded XML, till I inherited the responsibility of hosting a chatroom and had to use the server software & bot scripts from the previous host. That was when I came across this inappropriate use for XML...as the scripting language for the bot. You have no idea how much I wanted to tear my hair out while sorting through those scripts. Just for a taste of what I had to deal with, here is one of the shorter scripts. This is a Mastermind game: http://pastebin.ca/1353820
- April Russo (app103)
That is a great answer, and exactly what I was getting at in my comment on the other post. The attribute vs contents split in XML means you always need marshal/unmarshal overhead to get it into a native structure. With JSON you don't.
- Kevin Marks
Great thread. Thanks for sharing, Dave et al
- kortina
Kevin, are you saying that Javascript doesn't turn the text representation of JSON into binary data before programs operate on it? If true, that's remarkable. BTW, when we wrote our XML parser for Frontier, in C, the typical machine ran at 200 MHz and had about (guessing) 100MB of memory. Obviously today's machines are much bigger and faster, yet people *still* raise the encoding and decoding perf issues as if they matter in 2009, I don't see any evidence that they do.
- Dave Winer
The issue today is installed base of code and data. If I could have talked to the guys designing the data model for JavaScript I would have really strenuously argued for XML, rather than fracture the base. But what's done is done. Let's hope it doesn't happen *again* but it will of course, always does. I also found it ironic that Bray used an example of different config files, yet when he reinvented RSS, he didn't even reuse its names. So we have items and whatever Atom calls items. (I forget.)
- Dave Winer
Since people aren't shouting me down (yet, thankfully) anotherdesign error in Atom is the link element. It's yet another reinvention of XML inside an XML format! (I know OPML looks like that too, but that was in 2000, and that format makes sense when you view it from inside the app whose file format it is, an outliner with attributes.) Why not make every element in Atom an instance of <link>? What was the design rationale for that?
- Dave Winer
When I use xml I feel i'm on an old calculator typing (1 + 1)/(2 + 4) =. Much better to use rpn: 1 enter 1 + 2 enter 4 + /. Now applying this to "xml" your namespace definitions supply you with your operators. Add xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" to your page and <georss:point>45.256 -71.92</georss:point> becomes 45.256 -71.92 point.
- mal
re "Why not make every element in Atom an instance of <link>?", that would more or less be RDF. And we all know where that leads! :)
- Dan Brickley
"Bubblegum Alley is a local tourist landmark in downtown San Luis Obispo, California known for its accumulation of used bubble gum on the walls of an alley. It is a 15-foot (4.6 m) high and 70-foot (21 m) long alley which is lined with used bubble gum left by passers-by. The locally-created, "most-talked-about landmark" covers a stretch of 20 meters between 733 and 734 Higuera Street in downtown San Luis Obispo. According to the San Luis Obispo Chamber of Commerce and Downtown Business Improvement Association, the history of who actually started this gum fiesta is "a little sketchy." Some historians believe that the tradition of the Alley started after WWII as a San Luis Obispo High School graduating class event. Others believe it to have started in the late 1950s as rivalry between San Luis High School and Cal Poly Students."
- Anna Haro
As soon as the Poly students suspected that the High School was trying to out-do them on the gum walls, the college students stepped up their game and immediately became more creative, thus launching Bubblegum Alley. In any case, by the 1970’s Bubblegum Alley was well under way. When shop owners complained that it was "unsanitary and disgusting" the alley underwent a full cleaning. The...
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- Anna Haro
As gross as it is, that place is amazing. It never smelled when I went up there, except for a sweet smell when it was full of people sticking their gum on the wall.
- Anika
Yeah, as grossed out as I am, I know when I go, I won't be able to resist leaving my mark. :P
- Anna Haro
Anna, you're braver than me. Whenever I've gone up with friends, I had to show it too them because they thought I was lying. Hmmmph. They all left their gum, but I couldn't get over the thought of accidentally touching someone else's chewed piece.
- Anika
It doesn't reek of gum and spit? I don't know 'bout all that. I'll just uh, appreciate it via photos.
- Mona Nomura
Dude, I can't stop looking at the pictures. Like a stinky piece of cheese. I keep smelling it, even if I know it smells.
- Mona Nomura
And you see how someone put 'in gum we trust' in on there or the sculpture face? There are people who will sit there with a group of friends each chewing different color gum to get an image or sentence going.
- Anika
@Mona...HAHAHAHAHAHA ...Anika, those are my people. :-/
- Anna Haro
As for the smell, I've only been up there handful of times during summer, but it's SLO and the alley is a wind tunnel. I'm overly sensitive to smells, so if it had a whiff of grossness ever, I would have never gone back.
- Anika
I went to school there. I've contributed many times haha. :D
- Rodfather
I have made numerous amazing contributions to that wall! Oh and best part... is when your friend shoves you into the wall as a joke! Ugh!
- Susan Beebe
Claudio, don't you remember Star Trek V when Uhura was dancing nude behind some huge palm leaves? Sex scenes in my Trek? It's more likely than you think.
- Mike Nayyar
Holy Moly. That looks way more frenetic and awesome than any Star Trek has the right to be. Can't wait to watch it! 8^D
- Chieze Okoye
hopeful but concerned. the original Star Trek had Kirk barking, "As he passes, I want to cut in warp drive. We'll pivot at warp 2 and bring all tubes to bear. Mr. Chekov, give him a full spread of photon torpedoes." This one seems to have an alien screaming, "FIRE EVERYTHING AND STUFF!!!!! GAHHHHH!!!!"
- Karim
"Israeli producer Kutiman has become an overnight internet sensation by mixing an album entirely from samples of YouTube videos. The online album Thru You (thru-you.com) has become so successful that (at time of writing) the site hosting it is down due to "overwhelming traffic". But don't worry, The List have gathered together all 7 tracks in one place for you to watch, listen and enjoy." --- really fabulous stuff.
- Isaac Hepworth
from Bookmarklet
A friend of mine started using DestroyTwitter instead, and likes it a lot. http://destroytwitter.com It's no TweetDeck at this point, but a number of features--including groups--are apparently in the works. I like it and am using it full-time now instead of TD (anxiously awaiting groups...). Does not have laconi.ca/identi.ca support (yet?). Developer is responsive, seems smart, app seems well written and is actively under development.
- abacab
It's because of my dislike of AIR that I've been thinking about writing a desktop client for Twitter. It would essentially be a rip-off of TweetDeck. Mac-only of course.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I meant to add that the resources footprint is ridiculously smaller than TD, despite still being AIR-based. That may change, but the difference is night/day, and reason enough to change from TD for me, for now.
- abacab
Beyond just resource mismanagement, I just don't like AIR-styled UIs.
- Akiva Moskovitz
What's the point of AIR, exactly. To keep things uniform across platforms? You still have to hope that Adobe supports your OS, right?
- Shawn Farner
I realized this not long after installing. As a result, I have moved over to a web-based app called peoplebrowsr.com. Give it a try! It has many of the same features a a few more that I think you'll like.
- Damond Nollan
@Damond I don't mean to be rude but that's bullshit .. as neat as web-based apps might be there are those of us that *want* *good* desktop apps. Sloughing the problem off by suggesting we accept this kind of developer lackadaisical coding and if not happy use a web app is screwed up.
- Steven Hodson
@Steven I don't suggest that you accept "developer lackadaisical coding," hence the reason to stop supporting it. I like good apps just like the next guy, but another issue that I had with it was the lack of mobility. As I move from one computer to another, there is little I could take with me. I found that I had to reset my user preferences on each computer. With a web-based app, I don't have too. If you like TweetDeck or Twhirl, by all means keep using it, but as an alternative...
- Damond Nollan
The solution is .NET, thanks to the Mono project. It's no slouch in the resources department itself, but it never goes to the extremes that AIR does, so long as you use WinForms or Gtk#. And the same executable! can be used on Windows, Linux, or OSX, just like that.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Do apps have native interfaces when using Mono or do they all look like Windows apps?
- Akiva Moskovitz
I wonder if it's that much of a hog on my Macbook
- andy brudtkuhl
@chris - yes i've thought about building a twitter app with winforms but probably not worth the effort... plus I hate developing WinForms
- andy brudtkuhl
@andy Yeah, WinForms isn't fun to work with, but it's certainly much more efficient, at least memory-wise, than dealing with WPF. As well, WPF doesn't work on Mono, and Gtk# doesn't come by default with Microsoft.NET. It's a lowest common denominator, though, which is enough reason for most people to use it for anything that exists on more than just Windows.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
@Akiva Mono's implementation of WinForms makes applications continue to look like they were run on Windows. However, the window frame (title bar, icon, min/max/close, etc) is platform-specific, so it'll look appropriate for each platform.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
@Josh - apparently it's a problem with Adobe AIR (correct me if im wrong). I had to kill the process to return my computer to normal
- andy brudtkuhl
Facinating insight josh. It wouldn't be an apples to apples