Indeed ! that's was very nice! Have you done anything special about this Bret? (Like twitter's folks)
- directeur
very nice. anyone could guess Friendfeed would make it.
- SolidSmack
from twhirl
We did move a few things around, but nothing temporary - the event inspired us to optimize a few things we had been meaning to optimize anyway.
- Bret Taylor
"In other words, Facebook users comment on stuff from only about 5-7% of their Facebook friends. And as has been shown by many other studies, women communicate with more people in all cases than men. “People who are members of online social networks are not so much ‘networking’ as they are ‘broadcasting their lives to an outer tier of acquaintances who aren’t necessarily inside the Dunbar circle,’” Lee Rainie, the director of the Pew Internet & American Life Project, says."
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
@Thomas: +3. The only reason I go there is when one of my High School friends finds me there.
- AJ Kohn
I'm doing something wrong or I'm really unpopular, 120 "friends" or 500 "friends", who are these people?
- Ace
Interesting stats. I do have to work on those 10 friends, I am not quite talkative.
- Carlos Lorenzo
every now and again it sort of freaks me out when I log on to facebook and some random person tries to chat with me. I don't want that. I have AIM and Yahoo Messenger for that.
- Thomas Hawk
Memo to Web sociologists: Dunbar Number is meaningless online. It is a measure of physical interaction in the RW, limited by time and transportation, not mental abilities of humans. Online, we can have multiples of Dunbar numbers simultaneously.
- Bora Zivkovic
That is incorrect: "Dunbar's number was first proposed by British anthropologist Robin Dunbar, who theorized that "this limit is a direct function of relative neocortex size, and that this in turn limits group size ... the limit imposed by neocortical processing capacity is simply on the number of individuals with whom a stable inter-personal relationship can be maintained.""
- coldbrew
Dunbar was dead wrong - the limitations are not cognitive,
- Bora Zivkovic
It was and is a theory, and it didn't ever cite a specific number. Your original statement was that it was based on real world interactions when, in fact, it was based on "neocortical processing capacity."
- coldbrew
The Memo was to sociologists, not to Dunbar himself, because it is them who took it and ran away with it, assigning it a number and not realizing that limitations are physical, not cognitive. They fell in love with the idea, without critically engaging with it. I am glad that I know Communications profs who have realized this and teach about Dunbar Number correctly in the context of the Web.
- Bora Zivkovic
From the post, it was unclear whether the communications were measured for all time, or just within a particular period (i.e. the last six months). I just joined Facebook Thursday morning, so my comment ratio is pretty high.
- Ontario Emperor
So you could probably handle 300,000 personal relationships because cognition isn't an issue?
- coldbrew
It is to be seen what the cognitive limits are. Online, one can swiftly move from one social circle to another. A lot of it does not even require 1-to-1: I check quickly what everyone is broadcasting, and I hope many of them quickly scan what I am broadcasting. I may get into 1-to-1 with one or several of them in the morning, and a totally different group in the afternoon.
- Bora Zivkovic
About 90% of the people in the world - and this includes the highly mobile USA - are born, live and die in one place, often in the same house, rarely or never traveling more than 100 miles from their birthplace. They build their social network in RL - and that is about 150 people.
- Bora Zivkovic
Online, one can have multiples of social groups. Last week in NYC, I met and had a grand time with my "NYC social circle", all initially discovered online, although I may not be in daily contact with any one of them. One's social groups go in and out of one's attention all the time. We go through phases several times a day.
- Bora Zivkovic
And I do not consider my NYC friends any lesser than friends I have at home where I live. I know some people from online interactions MUCH better, in greater depth and detail of mutual understanding, than my next-door neighbors, in-laws or the person I worked with for a year in 2001.
- Bora Zivkovic
I'm having trouble rectifying two statements you've made: 1) "the limitations are not cognitive" 2) "It is to be seen what the cognitive limits are."
- coldbrew
Dunbar Number, used by sociologists to be around 150 is not the cognitive limit. Cognitive limit will be larger, much larger. It exists, but we did not get there (i.e., determining/measuring it) yet. Ask Scoble - he may be close ;-)
- Bora Zivkovic
"Dunbar's number is a theoretical cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships...No precise value has been proposed for Dunbar's number, but a commonly cited approximation is 150."
- coldbrew
Another problem is temporal. In the example of the usual people who never travel, their social circle is pretty static throughout their lives. But for people like us, it can be quite dynamic. You engage intensively with a group for a while, then move on, then come back to the same group 20 years later, etc. So, there is now a temporal dynamic on top of spatial and we need to agree on what the definitions are (e.g., time-frame of one's Number).
- Bora Zivkovic
I agree with that, and I believe the number will differ among people substantially; but there will always be an average. I don't think you'll find an argument from anyone that digital communications removes the barriers to interact with greater numbers of people, but one's Dunbar number depends on whether a few simple interactions constitutes a "stable social relationship." [EDIT: removed pronoun for clarity ]
- coldbrew
I agree we need to have a good definition of the terms "stable", "social" and "relationship". I am now brewing a blog post about this - thank you ;-)
- Bora Zivkovic
That sounds like a good idea. This can be quite an academic discussion, and somewhat distant from my formal education (hm, I wonder if you could draw parallels to molecular interactions? Some proteins are comprised of thousands of atoms.). I'll be sure to read your take.
- coldbrew
Social media is really great for increasing one's "loose ties". It doesn't have to be merely broadcast. You can engage with people when they're doing something what interests you.
- Meryn Stol
http://friendfeed.com/e... "What mainly goes up, therefore, is not the core network but the number of casual contacts that people track more passively. This corroborates Dr Marsden’s ideas about core networks, since even those Facebook users with the most friends communicate only with a relatively small...
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- NoahDavidSimon
I really don't see significant difference here between gender. I would of thought it would be higher. ...no I really do think it would be higher.. these numbers are quite misleading. the intimacy in the contacts are quite different in a number spread between genders. women are more apt to have more semi intimate friends and males are more likely to have more very intimate friends. and...
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- NoahDavidSimon
I think FB missed a bet to turn off user comments on a whole host of things. When users post status updates to their own wall, any of their friends can comment. When anyone else writes on a given user's wall, no one can comment on those posts. Stupid decision.
- Andrew C (✓)
Woot, and today I see comments on wall messages are back.
- Andrew C (✓)
"In the next several months Yahoo will begin rolling out new versions of its most popular products, from Yahoo Mail to the Yahoo home page. A thread of social media features, including a common user profile, list of friends and regular updates about friends, will tie the family of Yahoo properties together. When an individual recommends a news story from the Yahoo homepage, uploads a photograph on Flickr or makes a trade on a fantasy baseball team from Yahoo sports, Yahoo will send an alert to a network of friends or contacts. Yahoo is developing technology to broadcast roughly 100 types of such posts and actions."
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
I.e. they are trying to tack Facebook onto their existing properties? Feels a little late to the party, but better late than never.
- J. McConnell
Tracx ranks people according to various quantitative and qualitative parameters, analyzing activities in various social networks while putting an emphasis on "power users", contacts and interactions. Learn more http://tra.cx Brought to you by Go2web20.net - The web applications index
Tracx ranks people according to various quantitative and qualitative parameters, analyzing activities in various social networks while putting an emphasis on "power users", contacts and interactions. Learn more http://tra.cx Brought to you by Go2web20.net - The web applications index
Tracx ranks people according to various quantitative and qualitative parameters, analyzing activities in various social networks while putting an emphasis on "power users", contacts and interactions. Learn more http://tra.cx Brought to you by Go2web20.net - The web applications index
- Johnn Luevanos
"Bubblegum Alley is a local tourist landmark in downtown San Luis Obispo, California known for its accumulation of used bubble gum on the walls of an alley. It is a 15-foot (4.6 m) high and 70-foot (21 m) long alley which is lined with used bubble gum left by passers-by. The locally-created, "most-talked-about landmark" covers a stretch of 20 meters between 733 and 734 Higuera Street in downtown San Luis Obispo. According to the San Luis Obispo Chamber of Commerce and Downtown Business Improvement Association, the history of who actually started this gum fiesta is "a little sketchy." Some historians believe that the tradition of the Alley started after WWII as a San Luis Obispo High School graduating class event. Others believe it to have started in the late 1950s as rivalry between San Luis High School and Cal Poly Students."
- Anna Haro
As soon as the Poly students suspected that the High School was trying to out-do them on the gum walls, the college students stepped up their game and immediately became more creative, thus launching Bubblegum Alley. In any case, by the 1970’s Bubblegum Alley was well under way. When shop owners complained that it was "unsanitary and disgusting" the alley underwent a full cleaning. The...
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- Anna Haro
As gross as it is, that place is amazing. It never smelled when I went up there, except for a sweet smell when it was full of people sticking their gum on the wall.
- Anika
Yeah, as grossed out as I am, I know when I go, I won't be able to resist leaving my mark. :P
- Anna Haro
Anna, you're braver than me. Whenever I've gone up with friends, I had to show it too them because they thought I was lying. Hmmmph. They all left their gum, but I couldn't get over the thought of accidentally touching someone else's chewed piece.
- Anika
It doesn't reek of gum and spit? I don't know 'bout all that. I'll just uh, appreciate it via photos.
- Mona Nomura
Dude, I can't stop looking at the pictures. Like a stinky piece of cheese. I keep smelling it, even if I know it smells.
- Mona Nomura
And you see how someone put 'in gum we trust' in on there or the sculpture face? There are people who will sit there with a group of friends each chewing different color gum to get an image or sentence going.
- Anika
@Mona...HAHAHAHAHAHA ...Anika, those are my people. :-/
- Anna Haro
As for the smell, I've only been up there handful of times during summer, but it's SLO and the alley is a wind tunnel. I'm overly sensitive to smells, so if it had a whiff of grossness ever, I would have never gone back.
- Anika
I went to school there. I've contributed many times haha. :D
- Rodfather
I have made numerous amazing contributions to that wall! Oh and best part... is when your friend shoves you into the wall as a joke! Ugh!
- Susan Beebe
"Israeli producer Kutiman has become an overnight internet sensation by mixing an album entirely from samples of YouTube videos. The online album Thru You (thru-you.com) has become so successful that (at time of writing) the site hosting it is down due to "overwhelming traffic". But don't worry, The List have gathered together all 7 tracks in one place for you to watch, listen and enjoy." --- really fabulous stuff.
- Isaac Hepworth
from Bookmarklet
A friend of mine started using DestroyTwitter instead, and likes it a lot. http://destroytwitter.com It's no TweetDeck at this point, but a number of features--including groups--are apparently in the works. I like it and am using it full-time now instead of TD (anxiously awaiting groups...). Does not have laconi.ca/identi.ca support (yet?). Developer is responsive, seems smart, app seems well written and is actively under development.
- abacab
It's because of my dislike of AIR that I've been thinking about writing a desktop client for Twitter. It would essentially be a rip-off of TweetDeck. Mac-only of course.
- Akiva
I meant to add that the resources footprint is ridiculously smaller than TD, despite still being AIR-based. That may change, but the difference is night/day, and reason enough to change from TD for me, for now.
- abacab
Beyond just resource mismanagement, I just don't like AIR-styled UIs.
- Akiva
What's the point of AIR, exactly. To keep things uniform across platforms? You still have to hope that Adobe supports your OS, right?
- Shawn Farner
I realized this not long after installing. As a result, I have moved over to a web-based app called peoplebrowsr.com. Give it a try! It has many of the same features a a few more that I think you'll like.
- Damond Nollan
@Steven I don't suggest that you accept "developer lackadaisical coding," hence the reason to stop supporting it. I like good apps just like the next guy, but another issue that I had with it was the lack of mobility. As I move from one computer to another, there is little I could take with me. I found that I had to reset my user preferences on each computer. With a web-based app, I don't have too. If you like TweetDeck or Twhirl, by all means keep using it, but as an alternative...
- Damond Nollan
The solution is .NET, thanks to the Mono project. It's no slouch in the resources department itself, but it never goes to the extremes that AIR does, so long as you use WinForms or Gtk#. And the same executable! can be used on Windows, Linux, or OSX, just like that.
- Chris Charabaruk
Do apps have native interfaces when using Mono or do they all look like Windows apps?
- Akiva
I wonder if it's that much of a hog on my Macbook
- andy brudtkuhl
@chris - yes i've thought about building a twitter app with winforms but probably not worth the effort... plus I hate developing WinForms
- andy brudtkuhl
@andy Yeah, WinForms isn't fun to work with, but it's certainly much more efficient, at least memory-wise, than dealing with WPF. As well, WPF doesn't work on Mono, and Gtk# doesn't come by default with Microsoft.NET. It's a lowest common denominator, though, which is enough reason for most people to use it for anything that exists on more than just Windows.
- Chris Charabaruk
@Akiva Mono's implementation of WinForms makes applications continue to look like they were run on Windows. However, the window frame (title bar, icon, min/max/close, etc) is platform-specific, so it'll look appropriate for each platform.
- Chris Charabaruk
@Josh - apparently it's a problem with Adobe AIR (correct me if im wrong). I had to kill the process to return my computer to normal
- andy brudtkuhl
Facinating insight josh. It wouldn't be an apples to apples comparison even for a complete re-write from the API up. But would be a mighty intesting data point.
- Roberto Bonini
We're still a while away from Silverlight's promise of cross-platform applications. Moonlight doesn't yet support Silverlight 2.0 applications, and is still pretty untested.
- Chris Charabaruk
right below the Tweetdeck line in @andy's screenshot above is Twhirl, also an AIR app...yet it's consuming less than 25% of memory in comparison. don't you think that suggests the problem is Tweetdeck, and not AIR, per se?
- .LAG liked that
TweetDeck leaks memory over time. Eventually, if left on, it crashes my computer. It's TweetDeck, not AIR.
- Robert Scoble
I run Twhirl all day, on WinXP, no problems
- .LAG liked that
wow...i'm gonna have to look at that task monitor closer...
- .LAG liked that
Every AIR app I've run on my computer has leaked like a sinking ship, not just TweetDeck. I'm prone to believe its a framework problem, although I won't absolve TweetDeck itself of all blame.
- Chris Charabaruk
@Chris... when you say my computer, are you a PC or a Mac?
- .LAG liked that
DestroyTwitter is very cool now .. I use it all the time and I love that they supported themes recently =) FTW
- Hisham Sadek هشام
Will look into DestroyTwitter ...I like Twhirl because it can also access Identi.ca, FF, and Seesmic, all of which I frequent.
- .LAG liked that
@Matthew...that's true. FF has "real time" and search...it's all right here.
- .LAG liked that
@Matthew: I totaly agree with that. People also nag me for using Twhirl and saying Thwirl sucks. Maybe when they see that FF can do everything that TweetDeck can they will understand why I use Twhirl
- Patrick
from twhirl
yeah, tweetdeck has been slowing my computer down big time lately
- Robert DeBord
Twhirl can be like that at times, if you have more than one account open. Right now I have my twitter, my rss account on twitter, my friendfeed and my rss account open on twhirl and I'm not lagging or anything. So Twhirl does a decent job with memory.
- Patrick
from twhirl